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Let’s party like it is 1979 all over again – politicalbetting.com

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  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,668
    TimS said:

    Probably the most consequential change we could see from a Labour government, given their self-imposed constraints in other areas:

    https://x.com/hugogye/status/1760732262314955176?s=46

    Or rather inconsequential if a 'better deal' on food and cars just means continuing the existing extensions.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,462
    edited February 22

    There are rumours that Transnistria will request annexation by Russia next week.

    https://www.romaniajournal.ro/politics/transnistria-would-request-annexation-to-russia/

    Now, do you still want a Trump Presidency?
    Biden's the one who diverted shells from Ukraine to Israel. Are you proud of that?
    Are you going to answer the question you were asked?
    It's based on a false premise. If I want anything it's for people to be less hysterical about the prospect.
    I'm unsure 'hysterical' is the correct word.

    Here's a question for you: why should I, as a Brit, be hopeful that a second Trump presidency would be in any way positive?
    Because the first one was absolutely fine, and Biden has been far worse for the UK?
    How wrong can one poster be? Membership of both the Truss and Trump fanclub.
    I'm not sure how such a thing can even be contested. Our relations with the US during Trump's term were fine - his tax on Scotch was annoying but not terribly harmful since afaicr it applied just to malts not blended Scotch. Apart from that we were left largely alone, and crucially not badgered to spend blood or treasure Britwashing America's foreign campaign du jour. The biggest thing America did to us during that term was Covid, and that of course was not done by Trump.

    Conversely, during the era of the joyous return of 'American leadership' in the shape of Joe Biden, we've been openly bullied and mocked over the Northern Ireland protocol, had John Kerry tell us we couldn't have a coal mine, had to stump up billions for Ukraine, faced spiralling energy costs partly due to sanctions against Russia that our competitors China and India have blithely ignored, and started supportive bombing of the Houthis who then begun targeting UK shipping.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,595
    TimS said:

    Probably the most consequential change we could see from a Labour government, given their self-imposed constraints in other areas:

    https://x.com/hugogye/status/1760732262314955176?s=46

    Some interesting stuff here on how hard that is likely to be:

    https://ukandeu.ac.uk/will-the-2026-tca-review-reshape-uk-eu-relations/

    (Summary in text, click through for full report).
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,518
    TimS said:

    Probably the most consequential change we could see from a Labour government, given their self-imposed constraints in other areas:

    https://x.com/hugogye/status/1760732262314955176?s=46

    We have no real idea what Labour government will do, as the conventions of elections don't permit talking about spending money, and no-one in recent years has won an election after giving the other side any opportunity to attack them on tax raising. Don't blame Labour, blame the voters - us.

    But their constraints are not self imposed only. They are imposed by the state of public finances, which are truly awful, and a new government will find them no less awful than they are now, and they cannot be quickly changed.

    This is why interesting ideas from anywhere for resolving big ticket issues are lacking.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    nico679 said:

    I am sure plenty of PBers have posted this before me.

    A 335% increase in anti-Muslim hate cases in the UK has been recorded since Hamas's attack on Israel on 7 October

    https://news.sky.com/story/335-rise-in-anti-muslim-hate-cases-in-uk-since-hamass-attack-on-7-october-13078030?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Sad and seems to have been ignored by most of the media.
    An interesting view on Palestinian life from a Jewish Israeli.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtNFXL_ykg
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,640
    "Valencia fire: High-rise building engulfed by flames in Spain"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68374811

    :(
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    Has Hoyle gone yet? It hasn't passed my notice that a Labour MP/Speaker tried to do Labour a favour.

    The Tories and the SNP stupidly let Labour off the hook by flouncing out of the chamber. They have only themselves to blame that they allowed Starmer to run rings around them.

    For all his grey man blandness Starmer is proving a very astute politician.
    Let's see...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,102

    There are rumours that Transnistria will request annexation by Russia next week.

    https://www.romaniajournal.ro/politics/transnistria-would-request-annexation-to-russia/

    Now, do you still want a Trump Presidency?
    Biden's the one who diverted shells from Ukraine to Israel. Are you proud of that?
    Are you going to answer the question you were asked?
    It's based on a false premise. If I want anything it's for people to be less hysterical about the prospect.
    I'm unsure 'hysterical' is the correct word.

    Here's a question for you: why should I, as a Brit, be hopeful that a second Trump presidency would be in any way positive?
    Because the first one was absolutely fine, and Biden has been far worse for the UK?
    How wrong can one poster be? Membership of both the Truss and Trump fanclub.
    I'm not sure how such a thing can even be contested. Our relations with the US during Trump's term were fine - his tax on Scotch was annoying but not terribly harmful since afaicr it applied just to malts not blended Scotch. Apart from that we were left largely alone, and crucially not badgered to spend blood or treasure Britwashing America's foreign campaign du jour. The biggest thing America did to us during that term was Covid, and that of course was not done by Trump.

    Conversely, during the era of the joyous return of 'American leadership' in the shape of Joe Biden, we've been openly bullied and mocked over the Northern Ireland protocol, had John Kerry tell us we couldn't have a coal mine, had to stump up billions for Ukraine, faced spiralling energy costs partly due to sanctions against Russia that our competitors China and India have blithely ignored, and started supportive bombing of the Houthis who then begun targeting UK shipping.
    The "stumping up of billions for Ukraine" would have happened whether Biden, Trump or the Rock was POTUS. As for the sanctions, again not down to Biden. As the US results from it's hegemony and we enter a multipolar world, Russia was going to try it on whilst it still had the demography to do it

    As for the Houthis, similar thing. Inability of the USN to preserve trade routes has over the past ten/fifteen years led to an uptick in trade route disruption and privacy.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Roger said:

    nico679 said:

    I am sure plenty of PBers have posted this before me.

    A 335% increase in anti-Muslim hate cases in the UK has been recorded since Hamas's attack on Israel on 7 October

    https://news.sky.com/story/335-rise-in-anti-muslim-hate-cases-in-uk-since-hamass-attack-on-7-october-13078030?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Sad and seems to have been ignored by most of the media.
    An interesting view on Palestinian life from a Jewish Israeli.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtNFXL_ykg
    Missed possibly because of what has been happening to those of Jewish faith. Let's not forget how many Jews were murdered in the initial attack by Hamas...
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,021
    algarkirk said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/22/the-guardian-view-on-the-gathering-disaster-in-sudan-a-war-that-the-world-is-ignoring

    The Guardian's current take on Sudan. Hard to know what to say really. The Guardian has done slightly, only slightly, better than others in covering this war, and this update is welcome. But writing articles about how the war is ignored, when the Guardian is one of the media outlets doing the ignoring is not great.

    Eastern Congo anyone? CAR? Refugees in Chad? The silence is immense.

    No Jews involved. So nothing for the rent-a-crowd SWP brigade to get worked up over.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,857
    edited February 22

    Roger said:

    nico679 said:

    I am sure plenty of PBers have posted this before me.

    A 335% increase in anti-Muslim hate cases in the UK has been recorded since Hamas's attack on Israel on 7 October

    https://news.sky.com/story/335-rise-in-anti-muslim-hate-cases-in-uk-since-hamass-attack-on-7-october-13078030?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Sad and seems to have been ignored by most of the media.
    An interesting view on Palestinian life from a Jewish Israeli.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtNFXL_ykg
    Missed possibly because of what has been happening to those of Jewish faith. Let's not forget how many Jews were murdered in the initial attack by Hamas...
    :innocent:

    image

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Timeline_of_Israel-Palestine_fatalities_2008-2023.png
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,021
    ohnotnow said:

    Who would be the favourites for Speaker if there was a vacancy?

    It’s the Tories “turn”, and presumably they will seize that opportunity if a vacancy arises before the GE. Often it tends to go to deputy speakers which would put Eleanor Laing in a strong position, though isn’t she in trouble for something or other?

    Nigel Evans is the other Tory deputy speaker I think so might be a possibility. I think JRM is too divisive. Is there anyone else on the Tory benches who has their feelers out? I’d expect a lot of Tory candidates, if not for any other reason than it would be quite helpful at the moment to be granted a free pass at the GE!

    Liz! For! Speaker!

    Imagine it!
    I just did.

    I may do so again later.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,021

    Roger said:

    nico679 said:

    I am sure plenty of PBers have posted this before me.

    A 335% increase in anti-Muslim hate cases in the UK has been recorded since Hamas's attack on Israel on 7 October

    https://news.sky.com/story/335-rise-in-anti-muslim-hate-cases-in-uk-since-hamass-attack-on-7-october-13078030?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Sad and seems to have been ignored by most of the media.
    An interesting view on Palestinian life from a Jewish Israeli.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtNFXL_ykg
    Missed possibly because of what has been happening to those of Jewish faith. Let's not forget how many Jews were murdered in the initial attack by Hamas...
    :innocent:

    image

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Timeline_of_Israel-Palestine_fatalities_2008-2023.png
    And Hammas don't give a toss about the number of Palestinian dead. If anything, they welcome it, if it has the effect of radicalising a couple of feckless teenagers in their bedrooms.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,102

    ohnotnow said:

    Who would be the favourites for Speaker if there was a vacancy?

    It’s the Tories “turn”, and presumably they will seize that opportunity if a vacancy arises before the GE. Often it tends to go to deputy speakers which would put Eleanor Laing in a strong position, though isn’t she in trouble for something or other?

    Nigel Evans is the other Tory deputy speaker I think so might be a possibility. I think JRM is too divisive. Is there anyone else on the Tory benches who has their feelers out? I’d expect a lot of Tory candidates, if not for any other reason than it would be quite helpful at the moment to be granted a free pass at the GE!

    Liz! For! Speaker!

    Imagine it!
    I just did.

    I may do so again later.
    Indeed. One may imagine many things. I have to say it would take an effort to imagine a Liz Truss speakership. Perhaps later, when I've had a biscuit.
  • Roger said:

    nico679 said:

    I am sure plenty of PBers have posted this before me.

    A 335% increase in anti-Muslim hate cases in the UK has been recorded since Hamas's attack on Israel on 7 October

    https://news.sky.com/story/335-rise-in-anti-muslim-hate-cases-in-uk-since-hamass-attack-on-7-october-13078030?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Sad and seems to have been ignored by most of the media.
    An interesting view on Palestinian life from a Jewish Israeli.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtNFXL_ykg
    Missed possibly because of what has been happening to those of Jewish faith. Let's not forget how many Jews were murdered in the initial attack by Hamas...
    :innocent:

    image

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Timeline_of_Israel-Palestine_fatalities_2008-2023.png
    And Hammas don't give a toss about the number of Palestinian dead. If anything, they welcome it, if it has the effect of radicalising a couple of feckless teenagers in their bedrooms.
    Why the fuck do you have Liz Truss as your avatar?? Jeez!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,189

    There are rumours that Transnistria will request annexation by Russia next week.

    https://www.romaniajournal.ro/politics/transnistria-would-request-annexation-to-russia/

    Now, do you still want a Trump Presidency?
    Biden's the one who diverted shells from Ukraine to Israel. Are you proud of that?
    Are you going to answer the question you were asked?
    It's based on a false premise. If I want anything it's for people to be less hysterical about the prospect.
    I'm unsure 'hysterical' is the correct word.

    Here's a question for you: why should I, as a Brit, be hopeful that a second Trump presidency would be in any way positive?
    Because the first one was absolutely fine, and Biden has been far worse for the UK?
    How wrong can one poster be? Membership of both the Truss and Trump fanclub.
    I'm not sure how such a thing can even be contested. Our relations with the US during Trump's term were fine - his tax on Scotch was annoying but not terribly harmful since afaicr it applied just to malts not blended Scotch. Apart from that we were left largely alone, and crucially not badgered to spend blood or treasure Britwashing America's foreign campaign du jour. The biggest thing America did to us during that term was Covid, and that of course was not done by Trump.

    Conversely, during the era of the joyous return of 'American leadership' in the shape of Joe Biden, we've been openly bullied and mocked over the Northern Ireland protocol, had John Kerry tell us we couldn't have a coal mine, had to stump up billions for Ukraine, faced spiralling energy costs partly due to sanctions against Russia that our competitors China and India have blithely ignored, and started supportive bombing of the Houthis who then begun targeting UK shipping.
    As a consumer of Scottish malts in the US, I beg to differ.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,114
    Adam Kinzinger: second Trump term could be ‘devastating for world order’

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/22/adam-kinzinger-trump-interview-republicans
    A second Donald Trump presidency could spell the end of democracy in America and prove “devastating for the world order”, Adam Kinzinger, a Republican former congressman, has warned in an interview with the Guardian.

    Trump, the frontrunner for the Republican presidential nomination, is vowing retribution against his political enemies in a second-term agenda more radical than his first, including mass deportations and a purge of the justice department. Kinzinger, one of the most prominent Trump critics in America, is sounding the alarm.

    “The best-case scenario is a completely inept, ineffective government,” he said by phone. “The worst-case scenario is look, in his four-year term, he did not understand what he was doing. He was just trying to survive and he actually listened to people around him until the end. Now he’s going to put people around him that share his views, that will only reaffirm his views and, frankly, some of these people are pretty smart and they know how to work around the constitution or around the law to bring these authoritarian measures in.”

    He added: “Is it going to be the end of the United States of America? I don’t think so but I’m going to stress: think. But it certainly will set us way back in the progress that we’ve made.”..
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    edited February 22

    Roger said:

    nico679 said:

    I am sure plenty of PBers have posted this before me.

    A 335% increase in anti-Muslim hate cases in the UK has been recorded since Hamas's attack on Israel on 7 October

    https://news.sky.com/story/335-rise-in-anti-muslim-hate-cases-in-uk-since-hamass-attack-on-7-october-13078030?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Sad and seems to have been ignored by most of the media.
    An interesting view on Palestinian life from a Jewish Israeli.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtNFXL_ykg
    Missed possibly because of what has been happening to those of Jewish faith. Let's not forget how many Jews were murdered in the initial attack by Hamas...
    :innocent:

    image

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Timeline_of_Israel-Palestine_fatalities_2008-2023.png
    So what. 1200 Jews murdered by Hamas terrorists is the cause ofcwhatbis hapoening now. . What do you expect if Hamas attack? A tea party?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,021
    rcs1000 said:

    There are rumours that Transnistria will request annexation by Russia next week.

    https://www.romaniajournal.ro/politics/transnistria-would-request-annexation-to-russia/

    Now, do you still want a Trump Presidency?
    Biden's the one who diverted shells from Ukraine to Israel. Are you proud of that?
    Are you going to answer the question you were asked?
    It's based on a false premise. If I want anything it's for people to be less hysterical about the prospect.
    I'm unsure 'hysterical' is the correct word.

    Here's a question for you: why should I, as a Brit, be hopeful that a second Trump presidency would be in any way positive?
    Because the first one was absolutely fine, and Biden has been far worse for the UK?
    How wrong can one poster be? Membership of both the Truss and Trump fanclub.
    I'm not sure how such a thing can even be contested. Our relations with the US during Trump's term were fine - his tax on Scotch was annoying but not terribly harmful since afaicr it applied just to malts not blended Scotch. Apart from that we were left largely alone, and crucially not badgered to spend blood or treasure Britwashing America's foreign campaign du jour. The biggest thing America did to us during that term was Covid, and that of course was not done by Trump.

    Conversely, during the era of the joyous return of 'American leadership' in the shape of Joe Biden, we've been openly bullied and mocked over the Northern Ireland protocol, had John Kerry tell us we couldn't have a coal mine, had to stump up billions for Ukraine, faced spiralling energy costs partly due to sanctions against Russia that our competitors China and India have blithely ignored, and started supportive bombing of the Houthis who then begun targeting UK shipping.
    As a consumer of Scottish malts in the US, I beg to differ.
    That's why!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,857
    edited February 22

    Roger said:

    nico679 said:

    I am sure plenty of PBers have posted this before me.

    A 335% increase in anti-Muslim hate cases in the UK has been recorded since Hamas's attack on Israel on 7 October

    https://news.sky.com/story/335-rise-in-anti-muslim-hate-cases-in-uk-since-hamass-attack-on-7-october-13078030?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Sad and seems to have been ignored by most of the media.
    An interesting view on Palestinian life from a Jewish Israeli.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtNFXL_ykg
    Missed possibly because of what has been happening to those of Jewish faith. Let's not forget how many Jews were murdered in the initial attack by Hamas...
    :innocent:

    image

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Timeline_of_Israel-Palestine_fatalities_2008-2023.png
    So what. 1200 Jews murdered by Hamas terrorists. What do you expect....
    Over 6,400 Palestinians murdered by Israelis BEFORE then.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,854
    TimS said:

    AlsoLei said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AlsoLei said:

    WillG said:

    MattW said:

    You sod @TSE - you're making me catchup with what happened yesterday.

    Off-topic, from Mr Anderson's pinned Facebook post in late Jan:

    I have had a few people saying they might vote Reform at the next election due to their stance on illegal migration.

    To be clear no other MP has been as vocal on this subject as me.

    I have had 20,000 surveys returned with constituents voter intentions. These are Ashfield people.

    They have me 1st (just) Labour 2nd, Independents 3rd and Reform 4th and losing their deposit.

    Watch the upcoming by elections where Reform will lose their deposits. They should be winning these elections as UKIP did 10 years ago. Voting Reform in Ashfield risks getting a Labour MP. Will a Labour MP stick up for Ashfield like I have?

    If I lose voters to Reform it won't be Reform that gets elected , it will be Labour or even worse the Independents.

    Ask yourself this - who will stand up for you and be your voice in Labour or the Independents get into power in Ashfield?


    That sounds about right to me. I think Z has holed himself below the waterline a little too much. But Ashfield may be quite random.

    The Tories, with their new income thresholds, have just put the UK under our most stringent rules in history. Those new rules will come into force in April. It is brainless to vote Reform over immigration.

    Reform UK have proposed a one-in/one-out rule
    , which is very stupid, but which is certainly different from the record high immigration we currently have under the Conservatives. The new income thresholds will reduce some of that, but immigration this year is likely to remain above historical norms. I think its brainless to vote Reform UK on anything, but if a voter does want much lower immigration, it might be a rational choice for them.
    Given the shape of our population pyramid, isn't this essentially a call to deport British pensioners...?
    To be fair, that's not a stupid idea.
    Instead of importing care workers, export pensioners. We could perhaps turn some land in Guyana into a huge retirement complex and offer them a defence treaty in exchange.
    Honestly, it might be worth looking into a limited version of that - especially now that Spain is so much harder to retire to thanks to Brexit.

    Build a new city on the Egyptian Mediterranean or Red Sea coasts, or even the Ethiopian highlands - big countries with plenty of capacity to absorb an increase in (relatively) wealthy population. Britain could easily part-fund hospitals and care facilities at lower cost than we pay for the NHS, and pensions would go a hell of a lot further...

    About 750k people retire each year in the UK, just about enough to cancel out our current net migration rate. Surely this is what Refuk intend...
    I hear Rwanda is a beautiful and - by parliamentary decree - safe spot so that might be ideal for retirees.

    On a serious note I don’t think any country has tried offshoring social care demand yet but it makes sense. Consider how corporates manage opex and cost reductions. They either:

    - Make headcount reductions (not really morally acceptable on our elderly)
    - Squeeze suppliers through procurement (government already does this a lot but it’s a difficult task),
    - Offshore resources to lower cost locations (as suggested here), or
    - invest in automation, which is certainly an option - see Japan - but still not feasible for things like wiping bottoms or changing bedclothes

    It’s interesting to speculate how many people would take this up. Not enough I suspect. Too many family ties. But it could help at the margins if we did a few health and social security deals with nearish countries.
    Also, long-term investment is an issue. Climate change. OKay, the residents might not worry, but the capital cost, infrastructure, etc.?
  • algarkirk said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/22/the-guardian-view-on-the-gathering-disaster-in-sudan-a-war-that-the-world-is-ignoring

    The Guardian's current take on Sudan. Hard to know what to say really. The Guardian has done slightly, only slightly, better than others in covering this war, and this update is welcome. But writing articles about how the war is ignored, when the Guardian is one of the media outlets doing the ignoring is not great.

    Eastern Congo anyone? CAR? Refugees in Chad? The silence is immense.

    For all that I am usually very critical of British news for its very parochial coverage, Sky News' work on Sudan over the last few weeks has been excellent. Yousra Elbagir is an outstanding reporter who has provided a real insight into what has been happening there and the human cost. I am saddened and surprised that the BBC has not given it more prominence.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,735
    Nigelb said:

    Adam Kinzinger: second Trump term could be ‘devastating for world order’

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/22/adam-kinzinger-trump-interview-republicans
    A second Donald Trump presidency could spell the end of democracy in America and prove “devastating for the world order”, Adam Kinzinger, a Republican former congressman, has warned in an interview with the Guardian.

    Trump, the frontrunner for the Republican presidential nomination, is vowing retribution against his political enemies in a second-term agenda more radical than his first, including mass deportations and a purge of the justice department. Kinzinger, one of the most prominent Trump critics in America, is sounding the alarm.

    “The best-case scenario is a completely inept, ineffective government,” he said by phone. “The worst-case scenario is look, in his four-year term, he did not understand what he was doing. He was just trying to survive and he actually listened to people around him until the end. Now he’s going to put people around him that share his views, that will only reaffirm his views and, frankly, some of these people are pretty smart and they know how to work around the constitution or around the law to bring these authoritarian measures in.”

    He added: “Is it going to be the end of the United States of America? I don’t think so but I’m going to stress: think. But it certainly will set us way back in the progress that we’ve made.”..

    It'll be far worse than even he thinks frankly.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    edited February 22

    Roger said:

    nico679 said:

    I am sure plenty of PBers have posted this before me.

    A 335% increase in anti-Muslim hate cases in the UK has been recorded since Hamas's attack on Israel on 7 October

    https://news.sky.com/story/335-rise-in-anti-muslim-hate-cases-in-uk-since-hamass-attack-on-7-october-13078030?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Sad and seems to have been ignored by most of the media.
    An interesting view on Palestinian life from a Jewish Israeli.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtNFXL_ykg
    Missed possibly because of what has been happening to those of Jewish faith. Let's not forget how many Jews were murdered in the initial attack by Hamas...
    :innocent:

    image

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Timeline_of_Israel-Palestine_fatalities_2008-2023.png
    So what. 1200 Jews murdered by Hamas terrorists. What do you expect....
    Over 6,400 Palestinians murdered by Israelis BEFORE then.
    It is unsurprising that Israel retaliates when rockets are continually fired at Israel. Hamas does not care about Palestinian deaths. It wants them. It is in its interest in order to ramp up the hatred.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    Probably the most consequential change we could see from a Labour government, given their self-imposed constraints in other areas:

    https://x.com/hugogye/status/1760732262314955176?s=46

    We have no real idea what Labour government will do, as the conventions of elections don't permit talking about spending money, and no-one in recent years has won an election after giving the other side any opportunity to attack them on tax raising. Don't blame Labour, blame the voters - us.

    But their constraints are not self imposed only. They are imposed by the state of public finances, which are truly awful, and a new government will find them no less awful than they are now, and they cannot be quickly changed.

    This is why interesting ideas from anywhere for resolving big ticket issues are lacking.
    Again, there's vast sums in asset wealth waiting to be tapped, but the voters with the assets are too rich, numerous and therefore influential to be touched.

    The politicians therefore continue to find novel and inventive ways to screw the money they need out of the young and the poor, through a combination of austerity and taxes on earned incomes. Prediction: Labour will make much of promising not to hike income tax and national insurance, but Jeremy Hunt's wheeze to fuck workers over via fiscal drag and deploy the triple lock to hand the loot over to pensioners - including the 20% of all pensioner households that are worth over a million pounds - will be left wholly unchanged.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,322
    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    AlsoLei said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AlsoLei said:

    WillG said:

    MattW said:

    You sod @TSE - you're making me catchup with what happened yesterday.

    Off-topic, from Mr Anderson's pinned Facebook post in late Jan:

    I have had a few people saying they might vote Reform at the next election due to their stance on illegal migration.

    To be clear no other MP has been as vocal on this subject as me.

    I have had 20,000 surveys returned with constituents voter intentions. These are Ashfield people.

    They have me 1st (just) Labour 2nd, Independents 3rd and Reform 4th and losing their deposit.

    Watch the upcoming by elections where Reform will lose their deposits. They should be winning these elections as UKIP did 10 years ago. Voting Reform in Ashfield risks getting a Labour MP. Will a Labour MP stick up for Ashfield like I have?

    If I lose voters to Reform it won't be Reform that gets elected , it will be Labour or even worse the Independents.

    Ask yourself this - who will stand up for you and be your voice in Labour or the Independents get into power in Ashfield?


    That sounds about right to me. I think Z has holed himself below the waterline a little too much. But Ashfield may be quite random.

    The Tories, with their new income thresholds, have just put the UK under our most stringent rules in history. Those new rules will come into force in April. It is brainless to vote Reform over immigration.

    Reform UK have proposed a one-in/one-out rule
    , which is very stupid, but which is certainly different from the record high immigration we currently have under the Conservatives. The new income thresholds will reduce some of that, but immigration this year is likely to remain above historical norms. I think its brainless to vote Reform UK on anything, but if a voter does want much lower immigration, it might be a rational choice for them.
    Given the shape of our population pyramid, isn't this essentially a call to deport British pensioners...?
    To be fair, that's not a stupid idea.
    Instead of importing care workers, export pensioners. We could perhaps turn some land in Guyana into a huge retirement complex and offer them a defence treaty in exchange.
    Honestly, it might be worth looking into a limited version of that - especially now that Spain is so much harder to retire to thanks to Brexit.

    Build a new city on the Egyptian Mediterranean or Red Sea coasts, or even the Ethiopian highlands - big countries with plenty of capacity to absorb an increase in (relatively) wealthy population. Britain could easily part-fund hospitals and care facilities at lower cost than we pay for the NHS, and pensions would go a hell of a lot further...

    About 750k people retire each year in the UK, just about enough to cancel out our current net migration rate. Surely this is what Refuk intend...
    I hear Rwanda is a beautiful and - by parliamentary decree - safe spot so that might be ideal for retirees.

    On a serious note I don’t think any country has tried offshoring social care demand yet but it makes sense. Consider how corporates manage opex and cost reductions. They either:

    - Make headcount reductions (not really morally acceptable on our elderly)
    - Squeeze suppliers through procurement (government already does this a lot but it’s a difficult task),
    - Offshore resources to lower cost locations (as suggested here), or
    - invest in automation, which is certainly an option - see Japan - but still not feasible for things like wiping bottoms or changing bedclothes

    It’s interesting to speculate how many people would take this up. Not enough I suspect. Too many family ties. But it could help at the margins if we did a few health and social security deals with nearish countries.
    Also, long-term investment is an issue. Climate change. OKay, the residents might not worry, but the capital cost, infrastructure, etc.?
    IIRC New Zealand tightened up rules on emigration because they were seeing a pattern of Western oldies moving there. I think Australia did the same - good luck trying to get in if you are not of working age.
  • Roger said:

    nico679 said:

    I am sure plenty of PBers have posted this before me.

    A 335% increase in anti-Muslim hate cases in the UK has been recorded since Hamas's attack on Israel on 7 October

    https://news.sky.com/story/335-rise-in-anti-muslim-hate-cases-in-uk-since-hamass-attack-on-7-october-13078030?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Sad and seems to have been ignored by most of the media.
    An interesting view on Palestinian life from a Jewish Israeli.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtNFXL_ykg
    Missed possibly because of what has been happening to those of Jewish faith. Let's not forget how many Jews were murdered in the initial attack by Hamas...
    :innocent:

    image

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Timeline_of_Israel-Palestine_fatalities_2008-2023.png
    So what. 1200 Jews murdered by Hamas terrorists. What do you expect....
    Over 6,400 Palestinians murdered by Israelis BEFORE then.
    It is unsurprising that Israel retaliates when rockets are continually fired at Israel. Hamas does not care about Palastinian deaths. It wants them. It is in its interest in order to ramp up the hatred.
    That doesn't mean Israel should be happy to oblige. Except of course there is a faction within Israel - who currently hiold power - who are also happy for the hatred to continue and increase.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,854
    algarkirk said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/22/the-guardian-view-on-the-gathering-disaster-in-sudan-a-war-that-the-world-is-ignoring

    The Guardian's current take on Sudan. Hard to know what to say really. The Guardian has done slightly, only slightly, better than others in covering this war, and this update is welcome. But writing articles about how the war is ignored, when the Guardian is one of the media outlets doing the ignoring is not great.

    Eastern Congo anyone? CAR? Refugees in Chad? The silence is immense.

    Er ... not my impression. A quick check -

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2024/feb/14/why-us-and-uk-fund-rwanda-while-atrocities-mount-up-in-drc-vava-tampa

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2024/jan/04/were-playing-whac-a-mole-why-the-aid-system-is-broken

    Noit so much on the CAR, though.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/05/france-departure-niger-failure-former-colonies
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    Probably the most consequential change we could see from a Labour government, given their self-imposed constraints in other areas:

    https://x.com/hugogye/status/1760732262314955176?s=46

    We have no real idea what Labour government will do, as the conventions of elections don't permit talking about spending money, and no-one in recent years has won an election after giving the other side any opportunity to attack them on tax raising. Don't blame Labour, blame the voters - us.

    But their constraints are not self imposed only. They are imposed by the state of public finances, which are truly awful, and a new government will find them no less awful than they are now, and they cannot be quickly changed.

    This is why interesting ideas from anywhere for resolving big ticket issues are lacking.
    The only thing Labour has going for it is that we’re not fed up with them, yet.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,846
    kle4 said:

    Oxford is a nest of traitors.


    Give it a year and that will probably be the standard view in politics. Less time if Trump wins and all hope of further Ukraine support ends.

    Governments are preparing to accept the status quo, just as they did with Crimea, it is just taking longer because the invasion was even more egregious and destructive. Eventual rolling down of support will be part of that, as Ukraine itself may then have no choice but to negotiate something, and it will be presented as unfortunate but their 'choice'.
    Over the long run the economic sanctions on Russia will be very damaging. They are losing $100bn plus a year already on the gas alone. There is no obvious reason for the west to remove the sanctions so we should be playing hardball.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,735
    Ha, ha, ha...



    Anton Gerashchenko
    @Gerashchenko_en

    Lavrov went on a Latin American tour but was denied kerosene fueling at Rio de Janeiro airport, according to AeroTelegraph.

    Rio de Janeiro airport service operator Vibra Energia cited the prospect of U.S. sanctions prohibiting the supply of Russian government aircraft.

    As a result, Lavrov's flight to Brasilia, where he planned to meet with the country's president, Luiz Inacio da Silva, was jeopardized.
    As a result, Lavrov had to fly to the Brazilian capital as a traveling companion on the plane of Foreign Minister Mauro Vieira.

    https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1760759463718318319
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    IanB2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    Probably the most consequential change we could see from a Labour government, given their self-imposed constraints in other areas:

    https://x.com/hugogye/status/1760732262314955176?s=46

    We have no real idea what Labour government will do, as the conventions of elections don't permit talking about spending money, and no-one in recent years has won an election after giving the other side any opportunity to attack them on tax raising. Don't blame Labour, blame the voters - us.

    But their constraints are not self imposed only. They are imposed by the state of public finances, which are truly awful, and a new government will find them no less awful than they are now, and they cannot be quickly changed.

    This is why interesting ideas from anywhere for resolving big ticket issues are lacking.
    The only thing Labour has going for it is that we’re not fed up with them, yet.
    Exactly. They're the Not Tories and that's about it. Which won't help them when they start ruling like Tories, and everyone notices. Labour economic policy - yet more austerity, to be blamed on the uselessness of the previous lot - looks suspiciously like a mirror image copy of George Osborne's. Only this time it'll be Labour kicking the shit out of the young and the poor and blaming it on the Tories.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    Roger said:

    nico679 said:

    I am sure plenty of PBers have posted this before me.

    A 335% increase in anti-Muslim hate cases in the UK has been recorded since Hamas's attack on Israel on 7 October

    https://news.sky.com/story/335-rise-in-anti-muslim-hate-cases-in-uk-since-hamass-attack-on-7-october-13078030?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Sad and seems to have been ignored by most of the media.
    An interesting view on Palestinian life from a Jewish Israeli.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtNFXL_ykg
    Missed possibly because of what has been happening to those of Jewish faith. Let's not forget how many Jews were murdered in the initial attack by Hamas...
    :innocent:

    image

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Timeline_of_Israel-Palestine_fatalities_2008-2023.png
    So what. 1200 Jews murdered by Hamas terrorists. What do you expect....
    Over 6,400 Palestinians murdered by Israelis BEFORE then.
    It is unsurprising that Israel retaliates when rockets are continually fired at Israel. Hamas does not care about Palastinian deaths. It wants them. It is in its interest in order to ramp up the hatred.
    That doesn't mean Israel should be happy to oblige. Except of course there is a faction within Israel - who currently hiold power - who are also happy for the hatred to continue and increase.
    More to the point. Netanyahu's survival depends on a really tough response. He was very weak before this.
  • Roger said:

    nico679 said:

    I am sure plenty of PBers have posted this before me.

    A 335% increase in anti-Muslim hate cases in the UK has been recorded since Hamas's attack on Israel on 7 October

    https://news.sky.com/story/335-rise-in-anti-muslim-hate-cases-in-uk-since-hamass-attack-on-7-october-13078030?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Sad and seems to have been ignored by most of the media.
    An interesting view on Palestinian life from a Jewish Israeli.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtNFXL_ykg
    Missed possibly because of what has been happening to those of Jewish faith. Let's not forget how many Jews were murdered in the initial attack by Hamas...
    :innocent:

    image

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Timeline_of_Israel-Palestine_fatalities_2008-2023.png
    So there were Israelis killed every single year, your own data shows that.

    Means Israel is fully entitled to target the terrorists who are trying to kill them.

    Proportionality does not mean keep deaths at a 1:1 ratio, justifiably kill more of them than they kill of you is the typical desire in war.

    The war should continue in full until every single Hamas fighter is dead or has laid down their arms. Until Israel can live in peace where the number of deaths by terrorists is zero every year going forwards.
  • Roger said:

    nico679 said:

    I am sure plenty of PBers have posted this before me.

    A 335% increase in anti-Muslim hate cases in the UK has been recorded since Hamas's attack on Israel on 7 October

    https://news.sky.com/story/335-rise-in-anti-muslim-hate-cases-in-uk-since-hamass-attack-on-7-october-13078030?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Sad and seems to have been ignored by most of the media.
    An interesting view on Palestinian life from a Jewish Israeli.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtNFXL_ykg
    Missed possibly because of what has been happening to those of Jewish faith. Let's not forget how many Jews were murdered in the initial attack by Hamas...
    :innocent:

    image

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Timeline_of_Israel-Palestine_fatalities_2008-2023.png
    So what. 1200 Jews murdered by Hamas terrorists. What do you expect....
    Over 6,400 Palestinians murdered by Israelis BEFORE then.
    Neither killing military targets, nor collateral damage, is murder.

    Deliberately killing civilians is murder.

    There's a world of difference. Only one does murders, that's Hamas.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,059

    Oxford is a nest of traitors.


    In 1933 of course the Oxford Union voted it would 'never fight for King and Country.'

    Though to be fair it does debate all sides of every issue, including this one
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,680
    Not an Apple fanboy but the MacBook Air M2 has no competition - the battery life in particular is outstanding.

    I currently have a Pixel phone, Sony earbuds, MacBook and a Garmin watch..
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,999
    edited February 22

    algarkirk said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/22/the-guardian-view-on-the-gathering-disaster-in-sudan-a-war-that-the-world-is-ignoring

    The Guardian's current take on Sudan. Hard to know what to say really. The Guardian has done slightly, only slightly, better than others in covering this war, and this update is welcome. But writing articles about how the war is ignored, when the Guardian is one of the media outlets doing the ignoring is not great.

    Eastern Congo anyone? CAR? Refugees in Chad? The silence is immense.

    For all that I am usually very critical of British news for its very parochial coverage, Sky News' work on Sudan over the last few weeks has been excellent. Yousra Elbagir is an outstanding reporter who has provided a real insight into what has been happening there and the human cost. I am saddened and surprised that the BBC has not given it more prominence.
    A repeat of the 1980s, where one of the bloodiest conflicts of the post war era was scarcely covered by journalists. There seems to be something about the belt from Mali through the Sahel to Sudan that encourages forever wars and media disinterest.

    Forever war wise I suppose there is a toxic mix there with multiple borderlands: between nomadic and settled populations, Islam and animism / Christianity, Arab, Berber and Black African, all stirred up by a dose of Russian influence and French mismanagement.

    The places further west and East seem to get more attention. Somalia got a lot, at least early on. Conflicts in Liberia and Sierra Leone likewise. But Mali, BF, Chad, Niger, CAR, Sudan, South Sudan and even Ethiopia: not much. The only time Sudan had the BBC’s attention, for what reason I don’t know, was the Darfur conflict a few years ago.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,196
    Most amusing bit on the Rochdale BE was Danczuk calling Galloway a chancer
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,322
    Nigelb said:

    Oxford is a nest of traitors.


    Have they never heard Gary Oldman ?

    "When will the lesson be learned!" "You cannot reason with a tiger when your head is in its mouth!"

    The point of the Oxford debates on controversial topics is that if you can't defend your position with logic and reason, your position is in trouble.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,568

    The SNP and Tories could have defeated the Labour amendment and then forced a vote on the SNP motion unamended but they chose instead to flounce out of the chamber.

    Hoyle is one of the best Speakers we've had for a long time imo. I really hope he doesn't go.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,322
    Eabhal said:

    Not an Apple fanboy but the MacBook Air M2 has no competition - the battery life in particular is outstanding.

    I currently have a Pixel phone, Sony earbuds, MacBook and a Garmin watch..

    The M series chipset is the outstanding processor lineage at the moment. It seems to also be very good for neural networks.

    Mac OSX is a good UNIX - which is one of the reasons it has stood up so well.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,673
    Anyone heard about anybody being referred to the Privileges Committee?

    1D chess?

    SKS Fans?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,189

    kle4 said:

    Oxford is a nest of traitors.


    Give it a year and that will probably be the standard view in politics. Less time if Trump wins and all hope of further Ukraine support ends.

    Governments are preparing to accept the status quo, just as they did with Crimea, it is just taking longer because the invasion was even more egregious and destructive. Eventual rolling down of support will be part of that, as Ukraine itself may then have no choice but to negotiate something, and it will be presented as unfortunate but their 'choice'.
    Over the long run the economic sanctions on Russia will be very damaging. They are losing $100bn plus a year already on the gas alone. There is no obvious reason for the west to remove the sanctions so we should be playing hardball.
    I don't think their natural gas exports were that big, even at their peak. Trading Economics has their - pre Ukraine - energy exports at $200bn per year. But that includes oil, coal and natural gas. And oil (and oil products) are going to be more than half the total.

    I suspect total Russian natural gas exports were more likely to be in the $40-50bn range per year, and - of course - it's not like China / India / etc have stopped buying. So, the damage is probably in the $30bn a year range. (Plus the added hit from the various sanctions / price caps on their oil production.)
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,796

    Anyone heard about anybody being referred to the Privileges Committee?

    1D chess?

    SKS Fans?

    I've lost track...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,114

    Nigelb said:

    Oxford is a nest of traitors.


    Have they never heard Gary Oldman ?

    "When will the lesson be learned!" "You cannot reason with a tiger when your head is in its mouth!"

    The point of the Oxford debates on controversial topics is that if you can't defend your position with logic and reason, your position is in trouble.
    While I'm sure they'd like to think so, that's not my impression of them.
  • Nigelb said:

    Oxford is a nest of traitors.


    Have they never heard Gary Oldman ?

    "When will the lesson be learned!" "You cannot reason with a tiger when your head is in its mouth!"

    Kenneth Branagh:

    "Look at me! And understand, you don't negotiate with a tiger. You admire a tiger until he turns on you and you feel its true fucking nature!"
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,673
    ohnotnow said:

    Anyone heard about anybody being referred to the Privileges Committee?

    1D chess?

    SKS Fans?

    I've lost track...
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24138725.keir-starmer-reported-privileges-committee-intimidation-allegations/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,114
    Poland is becoming to South Korea what Saudi Arabia was to us a couple of decades back.
    Whether it's as good a credit risk is open to question.

    Korea eyes more defense contracts with Poland once key law is revised
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=369314
    Korean defense companies breathed a sigh of relief as a law revision, intended to boost state-run Export-Import Bank of Korea's (Eximbank) equity capital, successfully passed the first round of voting at the National Assembly.

    According to the Assembly, the revision bill to raise Eximbank's capital ceiling from the current 15 trillion won ($11.2 billion) to 25 trillion won was approved by a subcommittee of the National Assembly's Strategy and Finance Committee, Wednesday. The bill is anticipated to be passed at the Assembly's general meeting on Feb. 29.

    The maximum legal cap on loans and guarantees provided by Eximbank has been identified as the main obstacle to Korea's second defense deal with Poland. Under current regulations, Eximbank is restricted to extending credit up to 40 percent of its equity capital to specific individuals and entities.

    In the initial defense export agreement with Poland signed in 2022, Eximbank allocated 6 trillion won, equivalent to 40 percent of its capital, to Poland. This allocation has already maxed out its financial support capacity for a specific country. Consequently, to facilitate a second defense export deal valued at 30 trillion won, it became necessary to increase Eximbank's legal capital ceiling...

  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,796

    Eabhal said:

    Not an Apple fanboy but the MacBook Air M2 has no competition - the battery life in particular is outstanding.

    I currently have a Pixel phone, Sony earbuds, MacBook and a Garmin watch..

    The M series chipset is the outstanding processor lineage at the moment. It seems to also be very good for neural networks.

    Mac OSX is a good UNIX - which is one of the reasons it has stood up so well.
    It still amuses me that one of the few slapdowns that Steve Jobs took seriously was when the OSF rebuked Apple for calling the original MacOS-X 'UNIX'.

    But I agree - the M series is excellent. And the work they have been doing recently via their MLX framework has been impressive.

    https://github.com/ml-explore/mlx

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,099

    Roger said:

    nico679 said:

    I am sure plenty of PBers have posted this before me.

    A 335% increase in anti-Muslim hate cases in the UK has been recorded since Hamas's attack on Israel on 7 October

    https://news.sky.com/story/335-rise-in-anti-muslim-hate-cases-in-uk-since-hamass-attack-on-7-october-13078030?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Sad and seems to have been ignored by most of the media.
    An interesting view on Palestinian life from a Jewish Israeli.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtNFXL_ykg
    Missed possibly because of what has been happening to those of Jewish faith. Let's not forget how many Jews were murdered in the initial attack by Hamas...
    :innocent:

    image

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Timeline_of_Israel-Palestine_fatalities_2008-2023.png
    So what. 1200 Jews murdered by Hamas terrorists. What do you expect....
    Over 6,400 Palestinians murdered by Israelis BEFORE then.
    It is unsurprising that Israel retaliates when rockets are continually fired at Israel. Hamas does not care about Palestinian deaths. It wants them. It is in its interest in order to ramp up the hatred.
    So, wouldn’t it be wise to not do what Hamas wants?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,114
    Everything that Charles Darwin ever wrote is now available online.

    All of his books. All of his diary drafts. All of his notebooks. In one place.

    Darwin Online has assembled "a complete catalog of Darwin's personal library virtually." It took 18 years.

    https://twitter.com/NikoMcCarty/status/1760424668052517165
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,673
    Diane Abbott signs for Cuba on a free transfer

    https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1760578228618424523
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    ohnotnow said:

    Anyone heard about anybody being referred to the Privileges Committee?

    1D chess?

    SKS Fans?

    I've lost track...
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24138725.keir-starmer-reported-privileges-committee-intimidation-allegations/
    Hoyle said there wasn’t threats and Starmer said he didn’t threaten him . What exactly is there to investigate?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,099

    Roger said:

    nico679 said:

    I am sure plenty of PBers have posted this before me.

    A 335% increase in anti-Muslim hate cases in the UK has been recorded since Hamas's attack on Israel on 7 October

    https://news.sky.com/story/335-rise-in-anti-muslim-hate-cases-in-uk-since-hamass-attack-on-7-october-13078030?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Sad and seems to have been ignored by most of the media.
    An interesting view on Palestinian life from a Jewish Israeli.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtNFXL_ykg
    Missed possibly because of what has been happening to those of Jewish faith. Let's not forget how many Jews were murdered in the initial attack by Hamas...
    :innocent:

    image

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Timeline_of_Israel-Palestine_fatalities_2008-2023.png
    So there were Israelis killed every single year, your own data shows that.

    Means Israel is fully entitled to target the terrorists who are trying to kill them.

    Proportionality does not mean keep deaths at a 1:1 ratio, justifiably kill more of them than they kill of you is the typical desire in war.

    The war should continue in full until every single Hamas fighter is dead or has laid down their arms. Until Israel can live in peace where the number of deaths by terrorists is zero every year going forwards.
    Until Palestine can live in peace, where the number of deaths by illegal Israeli settlers is zero every year going forwards, where the amount of land annexed by Israel is zero every year going forwards, it is hard to see a good resolution occurring. Israel is entitled to defend itself from terrorism. It is not entitled to break international law and annex parts or all of Palestine, even if they do it more slowly that Russia’s attempted annexation of parts or all of Ukraine.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,280

    Who'd have thought it? Turns out that Paul "GB News" Marshall has some really unpleasant views: https://archive.is/C8Zcn

    That’s “long term Lib Dem donor Paul Marshall”?
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,253
    edited February 22
    Nigelb said:

    Oxford is a nest of traitors.


    Have they never heard Gary Oldman ?

    "When will the lesson be learned!" "You cannot reason with a tiger when your head is in its mouth!"

    It's just a debating motion. It wouldn't make any logical difference if it read "Ukraine should not negotiate with Russia" (unless you presume a prejudice in favour of Aye). Anyway, more to the point, what was the outcome? Their website is beyond useless, not having been updated for 10 months.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,099

    Roger said:

    nico679 said:

    I am sure plenty of PBers have posted this before me.

    A 335% increase in anti-Muslim hate cases in the UK has been recorded since Hamas's attack on Israel on 7 October

    https://news.sky.com/story/335-rise-in-anti-muslim-hate-cases-in-uk-since-hamass-attack-on-7-october-13078030?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Sad and seems to have been ignored by most of the media.
    An interesting view on Palestinian life from a Jewish Israeli.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtNFXL_ykg
    Missed possibly because of what has been happening to those of Jewish faith. Let's not forget how many Jews were murdered in the initial attack by Hamas...
    :innocent:

    image

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Timeline_of_Israel-Palestine_fatalities_2008-2023.png
    So what. 1200 Jews murdered by Hamas terrorists. What do you expect....
    Over 6,400 Palestinians murdered by Israelis BEFORE then.
    Neither killing military targets, nor collateral damage, is murder.

    Deliberately killing civilians is murder.

    There's a world of difference. Only one does murders, that's Hamas.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/03/palestinian-man-killed-in-west-bank-in-israeli-settler-raid Is that murder?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,568
    Nigelb said:

    Everything that Charles Darwin ever wrote is now available online.

    All of his books. All of his diary drafts. All of his notebooks. In one place.

    Darwin Online has assembled "a complete catalog of Darwin's personal library virtually." It took 18 years.

    https://twitter.com/NikoMcCarty/status/1760424668052517165

    Also let's not forget about his grandfather Erasmus Darwin.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,854
    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Everything that Charles Darwin ever wrote is now available online.

    All of his books. All of his diary drafts. All of his notebooks. In one place.

    Darwin Online has assembled "a complete catalog of Darwin's personal library virtually." It took 18 years.

    https://twitter.com/NikoMcCarty/status/1760424668052517165

    Also let's not forget about his grandfather Erasmus Darwin.
    Erotic vegetation.
  • nico679 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Anyone heard about anybody being referred to the Privileges Committee?

    1D chess?

    SKS Fans?

    I've lost track...
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24138725.keir-starmer-reported-privileges-committee-intimidation-allegations/
    Hoyle said there wasn’t threats and Starmer said he didn’t threaten him . What exactly is there to investigate?
    Frankly I thought this was inevitable by the SNP
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,854
    nico679 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Anyone heard about anybody being referred to the Privileges Committee?

    1D chess?

    SKS Fans?

    I've lost track...
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24138725.keir-starmer-reported-privileges-committee-intimidation-allegations/
    Hoyle said there wasn’t threats and Starmer said he didn’t threaten him . What exactly is there to investigate?
    In that case why did (a) Mr Hoyle do what SKS wanted, against his own clerk's advice, and (b) why was the discussion private?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,673
    nico679 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Anyone heard about anybody being referred to the Privileges Committee?

    1D chess?

    SKS Fans?

    I've lost track...
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24138725.keir-starmer-reported-privileges-committee-intimidation-allegations/
    Hoyle said there wasn’t threats and Starmer said he didn’t threaten him . What exactly is there to investigate?
    Starmer is a proven liar so as there were 5 people in the room the Privileges Committee should find out if he is lying over this imo
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    Carnyx said:

    nico679 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Anyone heard about anybody being referred to the Privileges Committee?

    1D chess?

    SKS Fans?

    I've lost track...
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24138725.keir-starmer-reported-privileges-committee-intimidation-allegations/
    Hoyle said there wasn’t threats and Starmer said he didn’t threaten him . What exactly is there to investigate?
    In that case why did (a) Mr Hoyle do what SKS wanted, against his own clerk's advice, and (b) why was the discussion private?
    He has said why he did what SKS wanted, whether that is a good enough reason is another matter but would an investigation throw up anything else? It cannot hurt though - since the Speaker has apologised and denied the issue of threats, what harm in a quick look? Investigations can also serve a purpose of putting someone in the clear.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Eabhal said:

    Not an Apple fanboy but the MacBook Air M2 has no competition - the battery life in particular is outstanding.

    I currently have a Pixel phone, Sony earbuds, MacBook and a Garmin watch..

    One down, three to go.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,099
    .
    Carnyx said:

    nico679 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Anyone heard about anybody being referred to the Privileges Committee?

    1D chess?

    SKS Fans?

    I've lost track...
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24138725.keir-starmer-reported-privileges-committee-intimidation-allegations/
    Hoyle said there wasn’t threats and Starmer said he didn’t threaten him . What exactly is there to investigate?
    In that case why did (a) Mr Hoyle do what SKS wanted, against his own clerk's advice, and (b) why was the discussion private?
    (a) He’s explained his reasoning. He was persuaded by what Starmer said. It’s a bleak view of the world if you think the only reason the Speaker might make such a decision is because of threats rather than because of rational discourse.

    (b) Such discussions are usually private. Do you invite an audience to every discussion you have at your workplace?

    I don’t know what actually happened, but you need more evidence for your case than just general cynicism.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    nico679 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Anyone heard about anybody being referred to the Privileges Committee?

    1D chess?

    SKS Fans?

    I've lost track...
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24138725.keir-starmer-reported-privileges-committee-intimidation-allegations/
    Hoyle said there wasn’t threats and Starmer said he didn’t threaten him . What exactly is there to investigate?
    Starmer is a proven liar so as there were 5 people in the room the Privileges Committee should find out if he is lying over this imo
    This story came from one BBC journalist and surely would have gathered momentum today if there was any mileage in it.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,673

    Roger said:

    nico679 said:

    I am sure plenty of PBers have posted this before me.

    A 335% increase in anti-Muslim hate cases in the UK has been recorded since Hamas's attack on Israel on 7 October

    https://news.sky.com/story/335-rise-in-anti-muslim-hate-cases-in-uk-since-hamass-attack-on-7-october-13078030?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Sad and seems to have been ignored by most of the media.
    An interesting view on Palestinian life from a Jewish Israeli.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtNFXL_ykg
    Missed possibly because of what has been happening to those of Jewish faith. Let's not forget how many Jews were murdered in the initial attack by Hamas...
    :innocent:

    image

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Timeline_of_Israel-Palestine_fatalities_2008-2023.png
    So what. 1200 Jews murdered by Hamas terrorists. What do you expect....
    Over 6,400 Palestinians murdered by Israelis BEFORE then.
    It is unsurprising that Israel retaliates when rockets are continually fired at Israel. Hamas does not care about Palestinian deaths. It wants them. It is in its interest in order to ramp up the hatred.
    So, wouldn’t it be wise to not do what Hamas wants?
    Pro Genocide PBers just don't get it.

    Israel has guaranteed many multiples of people holding anti Israel views have been created by their ridiculously over the top response and as a result Israel will be far less safe for years to come.
  • nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Anyone heard about anybody being referred to the Privileges Committee?

    1D chess?

    SKS Fans?

    I've lost track...
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24138725.keir-starmer-reported-privileges-committee-intimidation-allegations/
    Hoyle said there wasn’t threats and Starmer said he didn’t threaten him . What exactly is there to investigate?
    Starmer is a proven liar so as there were 5 people in the room the Privileges Committee should find out if he is lying over this imo
    This story came from one BBC journalist and surely would have gathered momentum today if there was any mileage in it.
    Then Starmer should have no problem with the investigation
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,568
    Maybe the best thing would be for Starmer to win a huge majority, because then he'll be able to marginalise the more extreme MPs in his party.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,673
    nico679 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Anyone heard about anybody being referred to the Privileges Committee?

    1D chess?

    SKS Fans?

    I've lost track...
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24138725.keir-starmer-reported-privileges-committee-intimidation-allegations/
    Hoyle said there wasn’t threats and Starmer said he didn’t threaten him . What exactly is there to investigate?
    Why did he turn up at the 11th hour without an appointment if it wasn't to convince Hoyles to change the rules. Don't for one minute think SKS would not use all the leverage he could to get his own way.

    He has form too
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335

    Roger said:

    nico679 said:

    I am sure plenty of PBers have posted this before me.

    A 335% increase in anti-Muslim hate cases in the UK has been recorded since Hamas's attack on Israel on 7 October

    https://news.sky.com/story/335-rise-in-anti-muslim-hate-cases-in-uk-since-hamass-attack-on-7-october-13078030?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Sad and seems to have been ignored by most of the media.
    An interesting view on Palestinian life from a Jewish Israeli.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtNFXL_ykg
    Missed possibly because of what has been happening to those of Jewish faith. Let's not forget how many Jews were murdered in the initial attack by Hamas...
    :innocent:

    image

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Timeline_of_Israel-Palestine_fatalities_2008-2023.png
    So what. 1200 Jews murdered by Hamas terrorists. What do you expect....
    Over 6,400 Palestinians murdered by Israelis BEFORE then.
    It is unsurprising that Israel retaliates when rockets are continually fired at Israel. Hamas does not care about Palestinian deaths. It wants them. It is in its interest in order to ramp up the hatred.
    So, wouldn’t it be wise to not do what Hamas wants?
    Pro Genocide PBers just don't get it.

    Israel has guaranteed many multiples of people holding anti Israel views have been created by their ridiculously over the top response and as a result Israel will be far less safe for years to come.
    Israel couldnt give a fuck and you know why? Because those who decide, out of nowhere on this particular issue to suddenly change into anti-israel types will do nothing other than sit in their chairs at home, therefore can be ignored.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,673
    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe the best thing would be for Starmer to win a huge majority, because then he'll be able to marginalise the more extreme MPs in his party.

    The extreme ones who want a ceasefire. That is about half. Underrepresented compared to voters who break 3 to 1 in wanting a ceasefire.

    The extremists are the LFI Genocide wing
  • is @Pagan2 gonna start another argument about what constitutes a moon landing? :lol:
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,673

    .

    Carnyx said:

    nico679 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Anyone heard about anybody being referred to the Privileges Committee?

    1D chess?

    SKS Fans?

    I've lost track...
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24138725.keir-starmer-reported-privileges-committee-intimidation-allegations/
    Hoyle said there wasn’t threats and Starmer said he didn’t threaten him . What exactly is there to investigate?
    In that case why did (a) Mr Hoyle do what SKS wanted, against his own clerk's advice, and (b) why was the discussion private?
    (a) He’s explained his reasoning. He was persuaded by what Starmer said. It’s a bleak view of the world if you think the only reason the Speaker might make such a decision is because of threats rather than because of rational discourse.

    (b) Such discussions are usually private. Do you invite an audience to every discussion you have at your workplace?

    I don’t know what actually happened, but you need more evidence for your case than just general cynicism.
    Hence the need for an investigation. If nothing happened there will be no consequences.

    Anyway we have moved a fair way from the triumphalism of SKS fans 24 hours ago.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,673
    Yokes said:

    Roger said:

    nico679 said:

    I am sure plenty of PBers have posted this before me.

    A 335% increase in anti-Muslim hate cases in the UK has been recorded since Hamas's attack on Israel on 7 October

    https://news.sky.com/story/335-rise-in-anti-muslim-hate-cases-in-uk-since-hamass-attack-on-7-october-13078030?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Sad and seems to have been ignored by most of the media.
    An interesting view on Palestinian life from a Jewish Israeli.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtNFXL_ykg
    Missed possibly because of what has been happening to those of Jewish faith. Let's not forget how many Jews were murdered in the initial attack by Hamas...
    :innocent:

    image

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Timeline_of_Israel-Palestine_fatalities_2008-2023.png
    So what. 1200 Jews murdered by Hamas terrorists. What do you expect....
    Over 6,400 Palestinians murdered by Israelis BEFORE then.
    It is unsurprising that Israel retaliates when rockets are continually fired at Israel. Hamas does not care about Palestinian deaths. It wants them. It is in its interest in order to ramp up the hatred.
    So, wouldn’t it be wise to not do what Hamas wants?
    Pro Genocide PBers just don't get it.

    Israel has guaranteed many multiples of people holding anti Israel views have been created by their ridiculously over the top response and as a result Israel will be far less safe for years to come.
    Israel couldnt give a fuck and you know why? Because those who decide, out of nowhere on this particular issue to suddenly change into anti-israel types will do nothing other than sit in their chairs at home, therefore can be ignored.

    I was referring to people in Palestine.

    They have no homes to sit in and imo will not be turning the other cheek when the Genocide ends.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,673
    Yokes said:

    Roger said:

    nico679 said:

    I am sure plenty of PBers have posted this before me.

    A 335% increase in anti-Muslim hate cases in the UK has been recorded since Hamas's attack on Israel on 7 October

    https://news.sky.com/story/335-rise-in-anti-muslim-hate-cases-in-uk-since-hamass-attack-on-7-october-13078030?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Sad and seems to have been ignored by most of the media.
    An interesting view on Palestinian life from a Jewish Israeli.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtNFXL_ykg
    Missed possibly because of what has been happening to those of Jewish faith. Let's not forget how many Jews were murdered in the initial attack by Hamas...
    :innocent:

    image

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Timeline_of_Israel-Palestine_fatalities_2008-2023.png
    So what. 1200 Jews murdered by Hamas terrorists. What do you expect....
    Over 6,400 Palestinians murdered by Israelis BEFORE then.
    It is unsurprising that Israel retaliates when rockets are continually fired at Israel. Hamas does not care about Palestinian deaths. It wants them. It is in its interest in order to ramp up the hatred.
    So, wouldn’t it be wise to not do what Hamas wants?
    Pro Genocide PBers just don't get it.

    Israel has guaranteed many multiples of people holding anti Israel views have been created by their ridiculously over the top response and as a result Israel will be far less safe for years to come.
    Israel couldnt give a fuck and you know why? Because those who decide, out of nowhere on this particular issue to suddenly change into anti-israel types will do nothing other than sit in their chairs at home, therefore can be ignored.

    Oh and Israel doesn't give a fuck is precisely why they will face a lot more hostility from their neighbours for years to come unless there is compromise
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,374
    Pulpstar said:

    Most amusing bit on the Rochdale BE was Danczuk calling Galloway a chancer

    Did he make his assertion by text?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    .

    Carnyx said:

    nico679 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Anyone heard about anybody being referred to the Privileges Committee?

    1D chess?

    SKS Fans?

    I've lost track...
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24138725.keir-starmer-reported-privileges-committee-intimidation-allegations/
    Hoyle said there wasn’t threats and Starmer said he didn’t threaten him . What exactly is there to investigate?
    In that case why did (a) Mr Hoyle do what SKS wanted, against his own clerk's advice, and (b) why was the discussion private?
    (a) He’s explained his reasoning. He was persuaded by what Starmer said. It’s a bleak view of the world if you think the only reason the Speaker might make such a decision is because of threats rather than because of rational discourse.

    (b) Such discussions are usually private. Do you invite an audience to every discussion you have at your workplace?

    I don’t know what actually happened, but you need more evidence for your case than just general cynicism.
    Hence the need for an investigation. If nothing happened there will be no consequences.

    Anyway we have moved a fair way from the triumphalism of SKS fans 24 hours ago.
    I doubt very much that Hoyle would appreciate such threats and would more than likely have told them where to get off. I tend to believe Hoyles reason re MP safety .
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    nico679 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Anyone heard about anybody being referred to the Privileges Committee?

    1D chess?

    SKS Fans?

    I've lost track...
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24138725.keir-starmer-reported-privileges-committee-intimidation-allegations/
    Hoyle said there wasn’t threats and Starmer said he didn’t threaten him . What exactly is there to investigate?
    That 2 politicians might be being economical with the truth! Are you really so thick you cannot see it?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,099
    felix said:

    nico679 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Anyone heard about anybody being referred to the Privileges Committee?

    1D chess?

    SKS Fans?

    I've lost track...
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24138725.keir-starmer-reported-privileges-committee-intimidation-allegations/
    Hoyle said there wasn’t threats and Starmer said he didn’t threaten him . What exactly is there to investigate?
    That 2 politicians might be being economical with the truth! Are you really so thick you cannot see it?
    It would be good to move on from this nonsense and get back to the question of whether Kemi Badenoch lied to the House once or twice.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe the best thing would be for Starmer to win a huge majority, because then he'll be able to marginalise the more extreme MPs in his party.

    Or a massive number of anti-Semitic Maps are about to get elected!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,374
    edited February 22

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Anyone heard about anybody being referred to the Privileges Committee?

    1D chess?

    SKS Fans?

    I've lost track...
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24138725.keir-starmer-reported-privileges-committee-intimidation-allegations/
    Hoyle said there wasn’t threats and Starmer said he didn’t threaten him . What exactly is there to investigate?
    Starmer is a proven liar so as there were 5 people in the room the Privileges Committee should find out if he is lying over this imo
    This story came from one BBC journalist and surely would have gathered momentum today if there was any mileage in it.
    Then Starmer should have no problem with the investigation
    I dunno, you banged him to rights over Currygate as I recall. Should he resign in order to clear his name?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    felix said:

    nico679 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Anyone heard about anybody being referred to the Privileges Committee?

    1D chess?

    SKS Fans?

    I've lost track...
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24138725.keir-starmer-reported-privileges-committee-intimidation-allegations/
    Hoyle said there wasn’t threats and Starmer said he didn’t threaten him . What exactly is there to investigate?
    That 2 politicians might be being economical with the truth! Are you really so thick you cannot see it?
    I know politicians can be economical with the truth . If the alleged wronged party says there wasn’t a threat then I don’t see it going anywhere . Surely it would be very risky for Starmer to have made the alleged threat in case Hoyle then spilt the beans .

  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Sunak will be furious with EU officials . The I front page will go down very badly in no 10 .

    Boosting economic growth by closer ties with the EU . Who knew !
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,568
    The latest from Suella.

    "This is no longer the great country I knew. Islamists are bullying Britain into submission
    This isn’t just about my colleagues in Parliament. Our values and freedoms are under attack in all walks of life

    SUELLA BRAVERMAN"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/22/islamists-are-bullying-britain-into-submission/
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,673

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Anyone heard about anybody being referred to the Privileges Committee?

    1D chess?

    SKS Fans?

    I've lost track...
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24138725.keir-starmer-reported-privileges-committee-intimidation-allegations/
    Hoyle said there wasn’t threats and Starmer said he didn’t threaten him . What exactly is there to investigate?
    Starmer is a proven liar so as there were 5 people in the room the Privileges Committee should find out if he is lying over this imo
    This story came from one BBC journalist and surely would have gathered momentum today if there was any mileage in it.
    Then Starmer should have no problem with the investigation
    I dunno, you banged him to rights over Currygate as I recall. Should he resign in order to clear his name?
    Well that would be good for my PB entry as I was only one saying Sunak vs Reeves
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,673
    nico679 said:

    .

    Carnyx said:

    nico679 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Anyone heard about anybody being referred to the Privileges Committee?

    1D chess?

    SKS Fans?

    I've lost track...
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24138725.keir-starmer-reported-privileges-committee-intimidation-allegations/
    Hoyle said there wasn’t threats and Starmer said he didn’t threaten him . What exactly is there to investigate?
    In that case why did (a) Mr Hoyle do what SKS wanted, against his own clerk's advice, and (b) why was the discussion private?
    (a) He’s explained his reasoning. He was persuaded by what Starmer said. It’s a bleak view of the world if you think the only reason the Speaker might make such a decision is because of threats rather than because of rational discourse.

    (b) Such discussions are usually private. Do you invite an audience to every discussion you have at your workplace?

    I don’t know what actually happened, but you need more evidence for your case than just general cynicism.
    Hence the need for an investigation. If nothing happened there will be no consequences.

    Anyway we have moved a fair way from the triumphalism of SKS fans 24 hours ago.
    I doubt very much that Hoyle would appreciate such threats and would more than likely have told them where to get off. I tend to believe Hoyles reason re MP safety .
    Why didn't he mention it till Thursday?
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Roger said:

    nico679 said:

    I am sure plenty of PBers have posted this before me.

    A 335% increase in anti-Muslim hate cases in the UK has been recorded since Hamas's attack on Israel on 7 October

    https://news.sky.com/story/335-rise-in-anti-muslim-hate-cases-in-uk-since-hamass-attack-on-7-october-13078030?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Sad and seems to have been ignored by most of the media.
    An interesting view on Palestinian life from a Jewish Israeli.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtNFXL_ykg
    Missed possibly because of what has been happening to those of Jewish faith. Let's not forget how many Jews were murdered in the initial attack by Hamas...
    :innocent:

    image

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Timeline_of_Israel-Palestine_fatalities_2008-2023.png
    So there were Israelis killed every single year, your own data shows that.

    Means Israel is fully entitled to target the terrorists who are trying to kill them.

    Proportionality does not mean keep deaths at a 1:1 ratio, justifiably kill more of them than they kill of you is the typical desire in war.

    The war should continue in full until every single Hamas fighter is dead or has laid down their arms. Until Israel can live in peace where the number of deaths by terrorists is zero every year going forwards.
    Israel doesn't want to live in peace. If it did it wouldn't be settling the West Bank.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Just finished Billions @TheScreamingEagles @Scott_xP

    Boris is Bobby
    Rishi is Chuck
    Sir Keir is Mike Prince!
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Labour have an open goal and Sunak even though he’s been more emollient with the EU can’t go there .

    The argument of closer economic ties with the EU to improve growth is hardly controversial and isn’t likely to annoy the so called Red Wall .

  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    nico679 said:

    .

    Carnyx said:

    nico679 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Anyone heard about anybody being referred to the Privileges Committee?

    1D chess?

    SKS Fans?

    I've lost track...
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24138725.keir-starmer-reported-privileges-committee-intimidation-allegations/
    Hoyle said there wasn’t threats and Starmer said he didn’t threaten him . What exactly is there to investigate?
    In that case why did (a) Mr Hoyle do what SKS wanted, against his own clerk's advice, and (b) why was the discussion private?
    (a) He’s explained his reasoning. He was persuaded by what Starmer said. It’s a bleak view of the world if you think the only reason the Speaker might make such a decision is because of threats rather than because of rational discourse.

    (b) Such discussions are usually private. Do you invite an audience to every discussion you have at your workplace?

    I don’t know what actually happened, but you need more evidence for your case than just general cynicism.
    Hence the need for an investigation. If nothing happened there will be no consequences.

    Anyway we have moved a fair way from the triumphalism of SKS fans 24 hours ago.
    I doubt very much that Hoyle would appreciate such threats and would more than likely have told them where to get off. I tend to believe Hoyles reason re MP safety .
    Why didn't he mention it till Thursday?
    Even if there were threats the suggestion is these where not from Starmer but the Labour Whips . Even then stating the obvious is hardly the Sopranos re needing Labour votes .

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,189
    isam said:

    Just finished Billions @TheScreamingEagles @Scott_xP

    Boris is Bobby
    Rishi is Chuck
    Sir Keir is Mike Prince!

    Who is Wags?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,568
    "Ilaria Salis: Father of Italian bound in chains in Hungary court says treatment inhumane and warns of 'disaster'

    "Nobody can treat a human being like she was treated, particularly at the beginning of this story," Roberto Salis tells Sky News."

    https://news.sky.com/story/ilaria-salis-father-of-italian-bound-in-chains-in-hungary-court-says-treatment-inhumane-and-warns-of-disaster-13078773
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,668
    nico679 said:

    Labour have an open goal and Sunak even though he’s been more emollient with the EU can’t go there .

    The argument of closer economic ties with the EU to improve growth is hardly controversial and isn’t likely to annoy the so called Red Wall .

    But it's based on a false premise.

    We have very close ties now, and there's not much scope to make them closer without rejoining. The rhetoric about Boris Johnson pursuing some crazy hard Brexit never matched the reality.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    nico679 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Anyone heard about anybody being referred to the Privileges Committee?

    1D chess?

    SKS Fans?

    I've lost track...
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24138725.keir-starmer-reported-privileges-committee-intimidation-allegations/
    Hoyle said there wasn’t threats and Starmer said he didn’t threaten him . What exactly is there to investigate?
    Well, they both would, wouldn’t they? The one could never admit being intimidating and the other never admit being intimidated
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Everything that Charles Darwin ever wrote is now available online.

    All of his books. All of his diary drafts. All of his notebooks. In one place.

    Darwin Online has assembled "a complete catalog of Darwin's personal library virtually." It took 18 years.

    https://twitter.com/NikoMcCarty/status/1760424668052517165

    Also let's not forget about his grandfather Erasmus Darwin.
    Indeed. In a way, creating that programme for European students was even more far sighted than the work of his son.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,418
    felix said:

    nico679 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Anyone heard about anybody being referred to the Privileges Committee?

    1D chess?

    SKS Fans?

    I've lost track...
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24138725.keir-starmer-reported-privileges-committee-intimidation-allegations/
    Hoyle said there wasn’t threats and Starmer said he didn’t threaten him . What exactly is there to investigate?
    That 2 politicians might be being economical with the truth! Are you really so thick you cannot see it?
    Not thick just partisan.

    He even claimed the outrage at Azhar Ali’s anti semitic comments was faux rage from Tories.

    He will swallow any shit from labour and regurgitate it as fact.
This discussion has been closed.