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Sunak is proving to be a very unlucky general – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,814

    I notice electoral calculus is showing the Tories on 99. That must be the fewest seats on the website, surely?

    I suspect their calculation may be a tad flaky.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    "Tucker Carlson And The Woke Right - Konstantin Kisin"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cN_mB_D96w
  • I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603

    isam said:

    And with current Tory voters, Boris beats Cameron 41-17 with the rest nowhere


    Which has been the best Conservative PM since 2010?

    Boris Johnson: 21%
    David Cameron: 19%
    Theresa May: 12%
    Rishi Sunak: 6%
    Liz Truss: 1%
    Don't know: 41%



    https://x.com/yougov/status/1759997144864522418?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Braindead the lot of them.

    Cameron is clearly the best by a country mile.
    Style over substance.
    I am glad you're finally understanding what Boris Johnson is like.
    Compare Cameron's response to Russian agression with Johnson's.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,360
    edited February 20

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    He's clutching at straws.

    We'd all be better off if he baled.
  • AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    Does Rishi Sunak have any common sense at all? At this point it feels like he is doing it on purpose.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    I notice electoral calculus is showing the Tories on 99. That must be the fewest seats on the website, surely?

    They, Electoral Calculus, do have a rather broad spread. Their current prediction is basically that Labour will get a majority of between 24 and 420. Even this broad prediction is outside what I think the result (NOM) will be.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    Well, it's true isn't it. As most of them can't actually make a living out of it thanks to the supermarkets supply chain squeezes.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    pigeon said:

    algarkirk said:

    isam said:

    And with current Tory voters, Boris beats Cameron 41-17 with the rest nowhere


    Which has been the best Conservative PM since 2010?

    Boris Johnson: 21%
    David Cameron: 19%
    Theresa May: 12%
    Rishi Sunak: 6%
    Liz Truss: 1%
    Don't know: 41%



    https://x.com/yougov/status/1759997144864522418?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    That 1% for Truss means, assuming the methodology is sound, that about half a million adults, mostly allowed out without supervision, think that she was just the best. It does make you wonder about the human condition.
    This, it would appear, was a survey of current Tory voters. Which means that 1% is nowhere near 500,000. Probably closer to 14.
    It must have been a group let out for the day with their carers and an armed response unit.
  • AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169

    isam said:

    And with current Tory voters, Boris beats Cameron 41-17 with the rest nowhere


    Which has been the best Conservative PM since 2010?

    Boris Johnson: 21%
    David Cameron: 19%
    Theresa May: 12%
    Rishi Sunak: 6%
    Liz Truss: 1%
    Don't know: 41%



    https://x.com/yougov/status/1759997144864522418?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Braindead the lot of them.

    Cameron is clearly the best by a country mile.
    Style over substance.
    I am glad you're finally understanding what Boris Johnson is like.
    Compare Cameron's response to Russian agression with Johnson's.
    Cameron has been spot on the thug running the Israeli Government. For that he has my support.

    Voted for his party before, would do so again if he was the leader.
  • I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    "Sunil faces backlash on PB after saying Rishi married for money, not love"
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    edited February 20

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    Well, it's true isn't it. As most of them can't actually make a living out of it thanks to the supermarkets supply chain squeezes.
    You have got to like early mornings. And like living with feeling things are not quite in your control and you are missing something.
  • I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    We're back to one of the fundamental beliefs of Sunakism, namely that everything would be fine if we all did the decent thing and became highly paid hedge fund traders.

    Anyone who has failed to do this is showing a shocking lack of ambition and is frankly letting the country down.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    Well, it's true isn't it. As most of them can't actually make a living out of it thanks to the supermarkets supply chain squeezes.
    I am massively pro farmer and UK agriculture. However there is no point in speculating on the finances of farmers unless one actually shows you their audited accounts and tax returns running over several years. (This won't happen). But a wander round the car park at the livestock auction is always an interesting exercise, as is a reflection on how much farmers are actually willing to pay to acquire more land so that they can make even greater losses on their gentlemanly hobby.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,365
    Article from Henry Hill on labours Sue Grey’s flawed idea of so called citizens assemblies. Pinpoints the main flaws.

    https://capx.co/citizens-assemblies-are-gone-for-now-but-dont-hold-your-breath/
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603

    isam said:

    And with current Tory voters, Boris beats Cameron 41-17 with the rest nowhere


    Which has been the best Conservative PM since 2010?

    Boris Johnson: 21%
    David Cameron: 19%
    Theresa May: 12%
    Rishi Sunak: 6%
    Liz Truss: 1%
    Don't know: 41%



    https://x.com/yougov/status/1759997144864522418?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Braindead the lot of them.

    Cameron is clearly the best by a country mile.
    Style over substance.
    I am glad you're finally understanding what Boris Johnson is like.
    Compare Cameron's response to Russian agression with Johnson's.
    Cameron has been spot on the thug running the Israeli Government. For that he has my support.

    Voted for his party before, would do so again if he was the leader.
    That's also style over substance. Cameron supports dismantling Gaza's military capability, so his criticism of Netanyahu is superficial.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,360

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    Well, it's true isn't it. As most of them can't actually make a living out of it thanks to the supermarkets supply chain squeezes.
    Twas ever thus:
    Dennis Penberthy, an elderly Cornish farmer, received a letter from the Department for Work & Pensions, stating that they suspected he was not paying his employees enough and they would send an inspector to interview them.


    On the appointed day, the inspector turned up.

    "Tell me about your staff," he asked Penberthy.

    "Well," said Penberthy, "there's the farm hand. I pay him £240 a week, and he has a free cottage. Then there's the housekeeper. She gets £190 a week, along with free board and lodging. There's also the half-wit. He works a 16 hour day, does 90% of the work, earns about £25 a week, along with a bottle of gin every week, and, occasionally, gets to sleep with my wife."

    "That's who I want to talk to," said the inspector, “the half-wit."



    "That'll be me then," said Penberthy.


    Or failing that, Pope John XXIII:

    There are three ways a man may ruin himself - wine, women and farming. My father chose the most boring of the three.
  • I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    We're back to one of the fundamental beliefs of Sunakism, namely that everything would be fine if we all did the decent thing and became highly paid hedge fund traders.

    Anyone who has failed to do this is showing a shocking lack of ambition and is frankly letting the country down.
    I am probably one of the few people qualified to talk about this as I come from the same background as Sunak but I think Sunak is displaying the traits of our parents where the expectation is your kids can become a doctor/lawyer/accountant/banker etc if they work hard which means lots of money.

    They don't appreciate what they take for granted doesn't apply to everybody, not every can send their kids to private schools or have parents who think an A minus at school has brought shame to the family.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    algarkirk said:

    I notice electoral calculus is showing the Tories on 99. That must be the fewest seats on the website, surely?

    They, Electoral Calculus, do have a rather broad spread. Their current prediction is basically that Labour will get a majority of between 24 and 420. Even this broad prediction is outside what I think the result (NOM) will be.
    Someone else who thinks the likelihood of the Torypocalypse, as much as they deserve it, has been overdone. There aren't many of us left!

    But yes, the boundaries on Electoral Calculus are vast. It'd be mildly interesting to know whom the shell shocked 99 survivors are meant to be, though I'd bet one of them would be ours. Two factors discourage me from bothering to turn out to vote: the conviction that Labour are unlikely to do much better than the current dross, and the total immovability of the incumbent.
  • This should be an interesting case, things always get better when lawyers get involved.

    Today I have been passed the identities of 14 British citizens who have been fighting for the genocidal IDF as it massacres the people of Gaza.

    This file will be passed onto lawyers with the intent of getting these people prosecuted.


    https://twitter.com/RmSalih/status/1759962349144858973
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,417
    algarkirk said:

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    Well, it's true isn't it. As most of them can't actually make a living out of it thanks to the supermarkets supply chain squeezes.
    I am massively pro farmer and UK agriculture. However there is no point in speculating on the finances of farmers unless one actually shows you their audited accounts and tax returns running over several years. (This won't happen). But a wander round the car park at the livestock auction is always an interesting exercise, as is a reflection on how much farmers are actually willing to pay to acquire more land so that they can make even greater losses on their gentlemanly hobby.
    I’m looking forward to driving past some of the farms round here and seeing LibDem posters in their fields instead of Tory ones!
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    algarkirk said:

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    Well, it's true isn't it. As most of them can't actually make a living out of it thanks to the supermarkets supply chain squeezes.
    I am massively pro farmer and UK agriculture. However there is no point in speculating on the finances of farmers unless one actually shows you their audited accounts and tax returns running over several years. (This won't happen). But a wander round the car park at the livestock auction is always an interesting exercise, as is a reflection on how much farmers are actually willing to pay to acquire more land so that they can make even greater losses on their gentlemanly hobby.
    Coming from a farming family, the best thing about being a farmer is the land*. With land there's unrealised business opportunity, a huge inheritance tax advantage and it only seems to go up in value.

    *Assuming you're not a tenant.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174
    The block on Afghan emigration and the Mercer story about today are not painting a good picture for the special forces..
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174

    This should be an interesting case, things always get better when lawyers get involved.

    Today I have been passed the identities of 14 British citizens who have been fighting for the genocidal IDF as it massacres the people of Gaza.

    This file will be passed onto lawyers with the intent of getting these people prosecuted.


    https://twitter.com/RmSalih/status/1759962349144858973

    Israel is starting to find itself friendless tbh
  • What do we have here?

    Oh, it is a wishing well with a card reader.

    Cash is dead.


  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    We're back to one of the fundamental beliefs of Sunakism, namely that everything would be fine if we all did the decent thing and became highly paid hedge fund traders.

    Anyone who has failed to do this is showing a shocking lack of ambition and is frankly letting the country down.
    I am probably one of the few people qualified to talk about this as I come from the same background as Sunak but I think Sunak is displaying the traits of our parents where the expectation is your kids can become a doctor/lawyer/accountant/banker etc if they work hard which means lots of money.

    They don't appreciate what they take for granted doesn't apply to everybody, not every can send their kids to private schools or have parents who think an A minus at school has brought shame to the family.
    That, and he's not twigged (or is wilfully ignoring) the fact that hard work doesn't necessarily get you anywhere nowadays in any case.

    Your typical recent graduate probably spends nearly their entire income on stratospheric rents, student loan repayments and taxes. If you've managed to get into casino banking or become a Premier League footballer then you might be OK; otherwise you're probably reliant on a large gift or legacy from a wealthy older relative to have a realistic prospect of ever living a comfortable life.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,708
    Just heard the last of Richard Strauss's "Four last songs" on R3's Mixtape … it could go on forever afaiac
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    ydoethur said:

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    He's clutching at straws.

    We'd all be better off if he baled.
    I see you managed to combine two puns in one post.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,800

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    We're back to one of the fundamental beliefs of Sunakism, namely that everything would be fine if we all did the decent thing and became highly paid hedge fund traders.

    Anyone who has failed to do this is showing a shocking lack of ambition and is frankly letting the country down.
    I am probably one of the few people qualified to talk about this as I come from the same background as Sunak but I think Sunak is displaying the traits of our parents where the expectation is your kids can become a doctor/lawyer/accountant/banker etc if they work hard which means lots of money.

    They don't appreciate what they take for granted doesn't apply to everybody, not every can send their kids to private schools or have parents who think an A minus at school has brought shame to the family.
    Watched yet another Storyville last night called Try Harder about a bunch of kids, nearly all Asian, trying to get into top colleges from Lowells, the number 1 ranked school in California. It was described as Tiger Mum central and there was certainly more than a bit of that but there was also interesting insights into racial politics in education in the US.

    Stanford in particular seemed to have marked disapproval of highly educated, very hard working Chinese kids whom they regarded as robots missing creativity, spontaneity, imagination etc and who got marked down despite their really exceptional results. Its a tough old system.

    Storyville really is the best thing on the BBC.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    isam said:

    And with current Tory voters, Boris beats Cameron 41-17 with the rest nowhere


    Which has been the best Conservative PM since 2010?

    Boris Johnson: 21%
    David Cameron: 19%
    Theresa May: 12%
    Rishi Sunak: 6%
    Liz Truss: 1%
    Don't know: 41%



    https://x.com/yougov/status/1759997144864522418?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Braindead the lot of them.

    Cameron is clearly the best by a country mile.
    Style over substance.
    I am glad you're finally understanding what Boris Johnson is like.
    Compare Cameron's response to Russian agression with Johnson's.
    Cameron has been spot on the thug running the Israeli Government. For that he has my support.

    Voted for his party before, would do so again if he was the leader.
    That's also style over substance. Cameron supports dismantling Gaza's military capability, so his criticism of Netanyahu is superficial.
    Who is your choice as PM/Tory leader? If you don’t reply I will assume it’s TRUSS.
  • pigeon said:

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    We're back to one of the fundamental beliefs of Sunakism, namely that everything would be fine if we all did the decent thing and became highly paid hedge fund traders.

    Anyone who has failed to do this is showing a shocking lack of ambition and is frankly letting the country down.
    I am probably one of the few people qualified to talk about this as I come from the same background as Sunak but I think Sunak is displaying the traits of our parents where the expectation is your kids can become a doctor/lawyer/accountant/banker etc if they work hard which means lots of money.

    They don't appreciate what they take for granted doesn't apply to everybody, not every can send their kids to private schools or have parents who think an A minus at school has brought shame to the family.
    That, and he's not twigged (or is wilfully ignoring) the fact that hard work doesn't necessarily get you anywhere nowadays in any case.

    Your typical recent graduate probably spends nearly their entire income on stratospheric rents, student loan repayments and taxes. If you've managed to get into casino banking or become a Premier League footballer then you might be OK; otherwise you're probably reliant on a large gift or legacy from a wealthy older relative to have a realistic prospect of ever living a comfortable life.
    Last year I had this epiphany that there is a generation who will never be able to retire because they don't own their own home so will have to pay rent in retirement.

    Sunak thinks they need to work harder.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    edited February 20
    ITV reporting that despite Starmers amendment to the SNP motion on Gaza tomorrow which contains a lot of caveats, the government have now tabled their own amendment which according to ITV will take president over Labour's whose mps will now have to chose between the government or SNP amendments apparently

    I assume those who know parliamentary procedure will affirm ITVs reporting as I am not able to be certain ITV are correct

    Whichever way tomorrow will be an important day for Starmer
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,360

    ydoethur said:

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    He's clutching at straws.

    We'd all be better off if he baled.
    I see you managed to combine two puns in one post.
    Yes, although it went against the grain.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    DavidL said:

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    We're back to one of the fundamental beliefs of Sunakism, namely that everything would be fine if we all did the decent thing and became highly paid hedge fund traders.

    Anyone who has failed to do this is showing a shocking lack of ambition and is frankly letting the country down.
    I am probably one of the few people qualified to talk about this as I come from the same background as Sunak but I think Sunak is displaying the traits of our parents where the expectation is your kids can become a doctor/lawyer/accountant/banker etc if they work hard which means lots of money.

    They don't appreciate what they take for granted doesn't apply to everybody, not every can send their kids to private schools or have parents who think an A minus at school has brought shame to the family.
    Watched yet another Storyville last night called Try Harder about a bunch of kids, nearly all Asian, trying to get into top colleges from Lowells, the number 1 ranked school in California. It was described as Tiger Mum central and there was certainly more than a bit of that but there was also interesting insights into racial politics in education in the US.

    Stanford in particular seemed to have marked disapproval of highly educated, very hard working Chinese kids whom they regarded as robots missing creativity, spontaneity, imagination etc and who got marked down despite their really exceptional results. Its a tough old system.

    Storyville really is the best thing on the BBC.
    The three-parter on the Colombia shuttle disaster has been extremely good. Available on iPlayer.
  • Pulpstar said:

    This should be an interesting case, things always get better when lawyers get involved.

    Today I have been passed the identities of 14 British citizens who have been fighting for the genocidal IDF as it massacres the people of Gaza.

    This file will be passed onto lawyers with the intent of getting these people prosecuted.


    https://twitter.com/RmSalih/status/1759962349144858973

    Israel is starting to find itself friendless tbh
    Yup.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    What do we have here?

    Oh, it is a wishing well with a card reader.

    Cash is dead.


    Well. I could go on…
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    The Recount
    @therecount
    ·
    1h
    Nikki Haley starts crying while discussing her husband, who is deployed overseas with the National Guard:

    “I wish Michael was here today, and I wish our children and I could see him tonight, but we can't.”


    https://twitter.com/BillKristol
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,800

    DavidL said:

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    We're back to one of the fundamental beliefs of Sunakism, namely that everything would be fine if we all did the decent thing and became highly paid hedge fund traders.

    Anyone who has failed to do this is showing a shocking lack of ambition and is frankly letting the country down.
    I am probably one of the few people qualified to talk about this as I come from the same background as Sunak but I think Sunak is displaying the traits of our parents where the expectation is your kids can become a doctor/lawyer/accountant/banker etc if they work hard which means lots of money.

    They don't appreciate what they take for granted doesn't apply to everybody, not every can send their kids to private schools or have parents who think an A minus at school has brought shame to the family.
    Watched yet another Storyville last night called Try Harder about a bunch of kids, nearly all Asian, trying to get into top colleges from Lowells, the number 1 ranked school in California. It was described as Tiger Mum central and there was certainly more than a bit of that but there was also interesting insights into racial politics in education in the US.

    Stanford in particular seemed to have marked disapproval of highly educated, very hard working Chinese kids whom they regarded as robots missing creativity, spontaneity, imagination etc and who got marked down despite their really exceptional results. Its a tough old system.

    Storyville really is the best thing on the BBC.
    The three-parter on the Colombia shuttle disaster has been extremely good. Available on iPlayer.
    Thanks, I'll give that a try. I love the style of Storyville. Of course the story is controlled by the editing process but everyone speaks for themselves with no intermediaries and no one telling you what to make of it all.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,951
    Pulpstar said:

    This should be an interesting case, things always get better when lawyers get involved.

    Today I have been passed the identities of 14 British citizens who have been fighting for the genocidal IDF as it massacres the people of Gaza.

    This file will be passed onto lawyers with the intent of getting these people prosecuted.


    https://twitter.com/RmSalih/status/1759962349144858973

    Israel is starting to find itself friendless tbh
    Well, not entirely.


  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,408

    isam said:

    And with current Tory voters, Boris beats Cameron 41-17 with the rest nowhere


    Which has been the best Conservative PM since 2010?

    Boris Johnson: 21%
    David Cameron: 19%
    Theresa May: 12%
    Rishi Sunak: 6%
    Liz Truss: 1%
    Don't know: 41%



    https://x.com/yougov/status/1759997144864522418?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Braindead the lot of them.

    Cameron is clearly the best by a country mile.
    Style over substance.
    Cameron's only problem was, and it's reflected in the polling there, the belief he had to strongly genuflect against traditional Tory voters in order to win the swing voters he needed to stay in office.

    I've got no doubt he was basically a traditional Shire Tory but was overly led by Osborne on that.
    It was Lord Ashcroft not George Osborne.

    The polling that had the most profound effect on Dave was in the aftermath of the 2005 general election when Lord Ashcroft conducted polling which showed popular policies became unpopular when the electorate were told they were Tory policies.
    Yes, I remember it well but it led to the very limited conclusion that being socially liberal would solve all the problems.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354

    algarkirk said:

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    Well, it's true isn't it. As most of them can't actually make a living out of it thanks to the supermarkets supply chain squeezes.
    I am massively pro farmer and UK agriculture. However there is no point in speculating on the finances of farmers unless one actually shows you their audited accounts and tax returns running over several years. (This won't happen). But a wander round the car park at the livestock auction is always an interesting exercise, as is a reflection on how much farmers are actually willing to pay to acquire more land so that they can make even greater losses on their gentlemanly hobby.
    Coming from a farming family, the best thing about being a farmer is the land*. With land there's unrealised business opportunity, a huge inheritance tax advantage and it only seems to go up in value.

    *Assuming you're not a tenant.
    My wife's uncle is doing very well out of dairy farming. It probably helps that he's part of a cooperative that part-owns, along with other dairy cooperatives, their own cheese-making company.

    A farmer who is simply selling their produce directly into the open market will have it much tougher.
  • AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169

    Pulpstar said:

    This should be an interesting case, things always get better when lawyers get involved.

    Today I have been passed the identities of 14 British citizens who have been fighting for the genocidal IDF as it massacres the people of Gaza.

    This file will be passed onto lawyers with the intent of getting these people prosecuted.


    https://twitter.com/RmSalih/status/1759962349144858973

    Israel is starting to find itself friendless tbh
    Yup.
    The thug in charge has ensured that.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366
    pigeon said:

    algarkirk said:

    I notice electoral calculus is showing the Tories on 99. That must be the fewest seats on the website, surely?

    They, Electoral Calculus, do have a rather broad spread. Their current prediction is basically that Labour will get a majority of between 24 and 420. Even this broad prediction is outside what I think the result (NOM) will be.
    Someone else who thinks the likelihood of the Torypocalypse, as much as they deserve it, has been overdone. There aren't many of us left!

    But yes, the boundaries on Electoral Calculus are vast. It'd be mildly interesting to know whom the shell shocked 99 survivors are meant to be, though I'd bet one of them would be ours. Two factors discourage me from bothering to turn out to vote: the conviction that Labour are unlikely to do much better than the current dross, and the total immovability of the incumbent.
    Given that you expect NoM can you tell me how that is going to be achieved based on the current polling (15-20% gap in party polling and a 40+% gap in net approval rating)?

    These ratings have now been consistent for over a year - I just can't see anything that is going to shift them especially the amount needed to end up with a hung Parliament...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,408

    What do we have here?

    Oh, it is a wishing well with a card reader.

    Cash is dead.


    Not quite the same, is it?

    I presume you can code 0.02p into the reader.
  • DavidL said:

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    We're back to one of the fundamental beliefs of Sunakism, namely that everything would be fine if we all did the decent thing and became highly paid hedge fund traders.

    Anyone who has failed to do this is showing a shocking lack of ambition and is frankly letting the country down.
    I am probably one of the few people qualified to talk about this as I come from the same background as Sunak but I think Sunak is displaying the traits of our parents where the expectation is your kids can become a doctor/lawyer/accountant/banker etc if they work hard which means lots of money.

    They don't appreciate what they take for granted doesn't apply to everybody, not every can send their kids to private schools or have parents who think an A minus at school has brought shame to the family.
    Watched yet another Storyville last night called Try Harder about a bunch of kids, nearly all Asian, trying to get into top colleges from Lowells, the number 1 ranked school in California. It was described as Tiger Mum central and there was certainly more than a bit of that but there was also interesting insights into racial politics in education in the US.

    Stanford in particular seemed to have marked disapproval of highly educated, very hard working Chinese kids whom they regarded as robots missing creativity, spontaneity, imagination etc and who got marked down despite their really exceptional results. Its a tough old system.

    Storyville really is the best thing on the BBC.
    It is something we should look at here as well.

    When I were a lad, every parent/teachers night where my father met my teachers the conversation went something along this in every subject.

    Dad: I see you offer extra tuition in this subject, where do I sign him up?

    Teacher: He really doesn't need extra tuition, he's passing everything with flying colours.

    Dad: Are you sure?

    Teacher: Yes.

    Dad: Money is no object when it comes to my son's education.
  • Clutch_BromptonClutch_Brompton Posts: 737
    edited February 20
    A truly unlucky General to have so many of his troops constantly shooting themselves in the foot.

    It will be interesting to see if the recall petition makes it. None have failed where the resultant byelection looked likely to replace the dodgy MP. Paisley Junior would have won any resultant BE.

    Interesting that Benton is suggesting he might stand against the Cons. He might ask Neil Hamilton about how voters tend to react in situations like this.

    I suppose this would marginally increase the chances of a May GE. Seems more likely the BE would be left to be hidden among the wreckage on Local Election day
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,800
    Pulpstar said:

    This should be an interesting case, things always get better when lawyers get involved.

    Today I have been passed the identities of 14 British citizens who have been fighting for the genocidal IDF as it massacres the people of Gaza.

    This file will be passed onto lawyers with the intent of getting these people prosecuted.


    https://twitter.com/RmSalih/status/1759962349144858973

    Israel is starting to find itself friendless tbh
    There was a very well informed guest on Today this morning. An ex US Ambassador to Israel. He said that that the IDF had destroyed 18 of the 24 battalions operated by Hamas. 4 of the remaining 6 are hiding in Rafah. When you look at it like that it is pretty hard not to see the IDF going in to get them. I am not even sure that they shouldn't.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,365

    What do we have here?

    Oh, it is a wishing well with a card reader.

    Cash is dead.


    I guess it’s pointless wishing you could use cash for it !
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366

    pigeon said:

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    We're back to one of the fundamental beliefs of Sunakism, namely that everything would be fine if we all did the decent thing and became highly paid hedge fund traders.

    Anyone who has failed to do this is showing a shocking lack of ambition and is frankly letting the country down.
    I am probably one of the few people qualified to talk about this as I come from the same background as Sunak but I think Sunak is displaying the traits of our parents where the expectation is your kids can become a doctor/lawyer/accountant/banker etc if they work hard which means lots of money.

    They don't appreciate what they take for granted doesn't apply to everybody, not every can send their kids to private schools or have parents who think an A minus at school has brought shame to the family.
    That, and he's not twigged (or is wilfully ignoring) the fact that hard work doesn't necessarily get you anywhere nowadays in any case.

    Your typical recent graduate probably spends nearly their entire income on stratospheric rents, student loan repayments and taxes. If you've managed to get into casino banking or become a Premier League footballer then you might be OK; otherwise you're probably reliant on a large gift or legacy from a wealthy older relative to have a realistic prospect of ever living a comfortable life.
    Last year I had this epiphany that there is a generation who will never be able to retire because they don't own their own home so will have to pay rent in retirement.

    Sunak thinks they need to work harder.
    As I pointed out earlier today - anyone in that situation need not bother saving money for their retirement - they would be vastly better off ensuring they have little to no private pension and maximising what the Government gives them in pension credits (housing benefit, council tax credit....)
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837

    pigeon said:

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    We're back to one of the fundamental beliefs of Sunakism, namely that everything would be fine if we all did the decent thing and became highly paid hedge fund traders.

    Anyone who has failed to do this is showing a shocking lack of ambition and is frankly letting the country down.
    I am probably one of the few people qualified to talk about this as I come from the same background as Sunak but I think Sunak is displaying the traits of our parents where the expectation is your kids can become a doctor/lawyer/accountant/banker etc if they work hard which means lots of money.

    They don't appreciate what they take for granted doesn't apply to everybody, not every can send their kids to private schools or have parents who think an A minus at school has brought shame to the family.
    That, and he's not twigged (or is wilfully ignoring) the fact that hard work doesn't necessarily get you anywhere nowadays in any case.

    Your typical recent graduate probably spends nearly their entire income on stratospheric rents, student loan repayments and taxes. If you've managed to get into casino banking or become a Premier League footballer then you might be OK; otherwise you're probably reliant on a large gift or legacy from a wealthy older relative to have a realistic prospect of ever living a comfortable life.
    Last year I had this epiphany that there is a generation who will never be able to retire because they don't own their own home so will have to pay rent in retirement.

    Sunak thinks they need to work harder.
    This has been blindingly obvious for many years to anyone willing to see.

    Just wait and see what state the nation's youth (and half the middle-aged by that point as well) will be in after another two decades of compound inflation of both house prices and the state pension (because if you think mass scale housebuilding, tight controls on immigration or the abolition of the triple lock are going to ride to the rescue, you're in for a serious disappointment.) Most of the population under 50 will be camped out in a vast favela either side of the Thames Estuary, paying income tax at 95p in the pound and scavenging for food on refuse tips.

    This is an exaggeration. But not much of one.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,360
    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    We're back to one of the fundamental beliefs of Sunakism, namely that everything would be fine if we all did the decent thing and became highly paid hedge fund traders.

    Anyone who has failed to do this is showing a shocking lack of ambition and is frankly letting the country down.
    I am probably one of the few people qualified to talk about this as I come from the same background as Sunak but I think Sunak is displaying the traits of our parents where the expectation is your kids can become a doctor/lawyer/accountant/banker etc if they work hard which means lots of money.

    They don't appreciate what they take for granted doesn't apply to everybody, not every can send their kids to private schools or have parents who think an A minus at school has brought shame to the family.
    That, and he's not twigged (or is wilfully ignoring) the fact that hard work doesn't necessarily get you anywhere nowadays in any case.

    Your typical recent graduate probably spends nearly their entire income on stratospheric rents, student loan repayments and taxes. If you've managed to get into casino banking or become a Premier League footballer then you might be OK; otherwise you're probably reliant on a large gift or legacy from a wealthy older relative to have a realistic prospect of ever living a comfortable life.
    Last year I had this epiphany that there is a generation who will never be able to retire because they don't own their own home so will have to pay rent in retirement.

    Sunak thinks they need to work harder.
    This has been blindingly obvious for many years to anyone willing to see.

    Just wait and see what state the nation's youth (and half the middle-aged by that point as well) will be in after another two decades of compound inflation of both house prices and the state pension (because if you think mass scale housebuilding, tight controls on immigration or the abolition of the triple lock are going to ride to the rescue, you're in for a serious disappointment.) Most of the population under 50 will be camped out in a vast favela either side of the Thames Estuary, paying income tax at 95p in the pound and scavenging for food on refuse tips.

    This is an exaggeration. But not much of one.
    Indeed.

    Global warming will dry up the Thames. It will be the Dee estuary.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366

    Pulpstar said:

    This should be an interesting case, things always get better when lawyers get involved.

    Today I have been passed the identities of 14 British citizens who have been fighting for the genocidal IDF as it massacres the people of Gaza.

    This file will be passed onto lawyers with the intent of getting these people prosecuted.


    https://twitter.com/RmSalih/status/1759962349144858973

    Israel is starting to find itself friendless tbh
    Well, not entirely.


    I would object to the use of the word punishment - punishment lets Israel off too lightly, for what is really genocide...
  • pigeon said:

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    We're back to one of the fundamental beliefs of Sunakism, namely that everything would be fine if we all did the decent thing and became highly paid hedge fund traders.

    Anyone who has failed to do this is showing a shocking lack of ambition and is frankly letting the country down.
    I am probably one of the few people qualified to talk about this as I come from the same background as Sunak but I think Sunak is displaying the traits of our parents where the expectation is your kids can become a doctor/lawyer/accountant/banker etc if they work hard which means lots of money.

    They don't appreciate what they take for granted doesn't apply to everybody, not every can send their kids to private schools or have parents who think an A minus at school has brought shame to the family.
    That, and he's not twigged (or is wilfully ignoring) the fact that hard work doesn't necessarily get you anywhere nowadays in any case.

    Your typical recent graduate probably spends nearly their entire income on stratospheric rents, student loan repayments and taxes. If you've managed to get into casino banking or become a Premier League footballer then you might be OK; otherwise you're probably reliant on a large gift or legacy from a wealthy older relative to have a realistic prospect of ever living a comfortable life.
    Last year I had this epiphany that there is a generation who will never be able to retire because they don't own their own home so will have to pay rent in retirement.

    Sunak thinks they need to work harder.
    And the last bit is the killer difference.

    Whether he really believes it or not, the PM gives off the vibes that income is the only valid, linear way of measuring merit.

    If you are paid 10% of what he is, it's because you're 10% as good.

    Michael Young's dystopian meritocracy made flesh.
  • pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    We're back to one of the fundamental beliefs of Sunakism, namely that everything would be fine if we all did the decent thing and became highly paid hedge fund traders.

    Anyone who has failed to do this is showing a shocking lack of ambition and is frankly letting the country down.
    I am probably one of the few people qualified to talk about this as I come from the same background as Sunak but I think Sunak is displaying the traits of our parents where the expectation is your kids can become a doctor/lawyer/accountant/banker etc if they work hard which means lots of money.

    They don't appreciate what they take for granted doesn't apply to everybody, not every can send their kids to private schools or have parents who think an A minus at school has brought shame to the family.
    That, and he's not twigged (or is wilfully ignoring) the fact that hard work doesn't necessarily get you anywhere nowadays in any case.

    Your typical recent graduate probably spends nearly their entire income on stratospheric rents, student loan repayments and taxes. If you've managed to get into casino banking or become a Premier League footballer then you might be OK; otherwise you're probably reliant on a large gift or legacy from a wealthy older relative to have a realistic prospect of ever living a comfortable life.
    Last year I had this epiphany that there is a generation who will never be able to retire because they don't own their own home so will have to pay rent in retirement.

    Sunak thinks they need to work harder.
    This has been blindingly obvious for many years to anyone willing to see.

    Just wait and see what state the nation's youth (and half the middle-aged by that point as well) will be in after another two decades of compound inflation of both house prices and the state pension (because if you think mass scale housebuilding, tight controls on immigration or the abolition of the triple lock are going to ride to the rescue, you're in for a serious disappointment.) Most of the population under 50 will be camped out in a vast favela either side of the Thames Estuary, paying income tax at 95p in the pound and scavenging for food on refuse tips.

    This is an exaggeration. But not much of one.
    For me, the trigger was quite a few friends and colleagues who told me they couldn't start a family because of the living situation.

    These aren't people on minimum wage but professionals like me maybe 20 years ago.

    Best thing to ever happen to me financially was my parents getting me onto the London housing market in 2000 when I was 21 and not even started my first job rather than renting.
  • DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    This should be an interesting case, things always get better when lawyers get involved.

    Today I have been passed the identities of 14 British citizens who have been fighting for the genocidal IDF as it massacres the people of Gaza.

    This file will be passed onto lawyers with the intent of getting these people prosecuted.


    https://twitter.com/RmSalih/status/1759962349144858973

    Israel is starting to find itself friendless tbh
    There was a very well informed guest on Today this morning. An ex US Ambassador to Israel. He said that that the IDF had destroyed 18 of the 24 battalions operated by Hamas. 4 of the remaining 6 are hiding in Rafah. When you look at it like that it is pretty hard not to see the IDF going in to get them. I am not even sure that they shouldn't.
    Of course they bloody should.

    The racists and extremists on the far left and far right have never liked Israel or Jews anyway, their futile gesturer politics needs to be ignored and Israel needs to just keep calm and carry on until Hamas is entirely destroyed.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 20

    isam said:

    And with current Tory voters, Boris beats Cameron 41-17 with the rest nowhere


    Which has been the best Conservative PM since 2010?

    Boris Johnson: 21%
    David Cameron: 19%
    Theresa May: 12%
    Rishi Sunak: 6%
    Liz Truss: 1%
    Don't know: 41%



    https://x.com/yougov/status/1759997144864522418?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Braindead the lot of them.

    Cameron is clearly the best by a country mile.
    Style over substance.
    I am glad you're finally understanding what Boris Johnson is like.
    Compare Cameron's response to Russian agression with Johnson's.
    Cameron has been spot on the thug running the Israeli Government. For that he has my support.

    Voted for his party before, would do so again if he was the leader.
    That's also style over substance. Cameron supports dismantling Gaza's military capability, so his criticism of Netanyahu is superficial.
    Who is your choice as PM/Tory leader? If you don’t reply I will assume it’s TRUSS.
    I think what they need is a charismatic, proven Election winner, who is the most popular with both their 2019 & current voters according to the polls
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,708
    DavidL said:

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    We're back to one of the fundamental beliefs of Sunakism, namely that everything would be fine if we all did the decent thing and became highly paid hedge fund traders.

    Anyone who has failed to do this is showing a shocking lack of ambition and is frankly letting the country down.
    I am probably one of the few people qualified to talk about this as I come from the same background as Sunak but I think Sunak is displaying the traits of our parents where the expectation is your kids can become a doctor/lawyer/accountant/banker etc if they work hard which means lots of money.

    They don't appreciate what they take for granted doesn't apply to everybody, not every can send their kids to private schools or have parents who think an A minus at school has brought shame to the family.
    Watched yet another Storyville last night called Try Harder about a bunch of kids, nearly all Asian, trying to get into top colleges from Lowells, the number 1 ranked school in California. It was described as Tiger Mum central and there was certainly more than a bit of that but there was also interesting insights into racial politics in education in the US.

    Stanford in particular seemed to have marked disapproval of highly educated, very hard working Chinese kids whom they regarded as robots missing creativity, spontaneity, imagination etc and who got marked down despite their really exceptional results. Its a tough old system.

    Storyville really is the best thing on the BBC.
    The 2022 Storyville on Navalny should be watched, especially for his prescient opening statement about making the film "in case I get killed"

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603

    isam said:

    And with current Tory voters, Boris beats Cameron 41-17 with the rest nowhere


    Which has been the best Conservative PM since 2010?

    Boris Johnson: 21%
    David Cameron: 19%
    Theresa May: 12%
    Rishi Sunak: 6%
    Liz Truss: 1%
    Don't know: 41%



    https://x.com/yougov/status/1759997144864522418?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Braindead the lot of them.

    Cameron is clearly the best by a country mile.
    Style over substance.
    I am glad you're finally understanding what Boris Johnson is like.
    Compare Cameron's response to Russian agression with Johnson's.
    Cameron has been spot on the thug running the Israeli Government. For that he has my support.

    Voted for his party before, would do so again if he was the leader.
    That's also style over substance. Cameron supports dismantling Gaza's military capability, so his criticism of Netanyahu is superficial.
    Who is your choice as PM/Tory leader? If you don’t reply I will assume it’s TRUSS.
    It's got to be strong and stable Theresa May.
  • DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    This should be an interesting case, things always get better when lawyers get involved.

    Today I have been passed the identities of 14 British citizens who have been fighting for the genocidal IDF as it massacres the people of Gaza.

    This file will be passed onto lawyers with the intent of getting these people prosecuted.


    https://twitter.com/RmSalih/status/1759962349144858973

    Israel is starting to find itself friendless tbh
    There was a very well informed guest on Today this morning. An ex US Ambassador to Israel. He said that that the IDF had destroyed 18 of the 24 battalions operated by Hamas. 4 of the remaining 6 are hiding in Rafah. When you look at it like that it is pretty hard not to see the IDF going in to get them. I am not even sure that they shouldn't.
    Of course they bloody should.

    The racists and extremists on the far left and far right have never liked Israel or Jews anyway, their futile gesturer politics needs to be ignored and Israel needs to just keep calm and carry on until Hamas is entirely destroyed.
    There are racists and extremists who have never liked Arabs and Muslims.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,360

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    This should be an interesting case, things always get better when lawyers get involved.

    Today I have been passed the identities of 14 British citizens who have been fighting for the genocidal IDF as it massacres the people of Gaza.

    This file will be passed onto lawyers with the intent of getting these people prosecuted.


    https://twitter.com/RmSalih/status/1759962349144858973

    Israel is starting to find itself friendless tbh
    There was a very well informed guest on Today this morning. An ex US Ambassador to Israel. He said that that the IDF had destroyed 18 of the 24 battalions operated by Hamas. 4 of the remaining 6 are hiding in Rafah. When you look at it like that it is pretty hard not to see the IDF going in to get them. I am not even sure that they shouldn't.
    Of course they bloody should.

    The racists and extremists on the far left and far right have never liked Israel or Jews anyway, their futile gesturer politics needs to be ignored and Israel needs to just keep calm and carry on until Hamas is entirely destroyed.
    There are racists and extremists who have never liked Arabs and Muslims.
    Rather unfortunately, including the PM of Israel.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,800

    Pulpstar said:

    This should be an interesting case, things always get better when lawyers get involved.

    Today I have been passed the identities of 14 British citizens who have been fighting for the genocidal IDF as it massacres the people of Gaza.

    This file will be passed onto lawyers with the intent of getting these people prosecuted.


    https://twitter.com/RmSalih/status/1759962349144858973

    Israel is starting to find itself friendless tbh
    Well, not entirely.


    The Labour party is desperate for power and to show how grown up they are but if he can hold the line on that with no material dissent I will be impressed.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    eek said:

    pigeon said:

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    We're back to one of the fundamental beliefs of Sunakism, namely that everything would be fine if we all did the decent thing and became highly paid hedge fund traders.

    Anyone who has failed to do this is showing a shocking lack of ambition and is frankly letting the country down.
    I am probably one of the few people qualified to talk about this as I come from the same background as Sunak but I think Sunak is displaying the traits of our parents where the expectation is your kids can become a doctor/lawyer/accountant/banker etc if they work hard which means lots of money.

    They don't appreciate what they take for granted doesn't apply to everybody, not every can send their kids to private schools or have parents who think an A minus at school has brought shame to the family.
    That, and he's not twigged (or is wilfully ignoring) the fact that hard work doesn't necessarily get you anywhere nowadays in any case.

    Your typical recent graduate probably spends nearly their entire income on stratospheric rents, student loan repayments and taxes. If you've managed to get into casino banking or become a Premier League footballer then you might be OK; otherwise you're probably reliant on a large gift or legacy from a wealthy older relative to have a realistic prospect of ever living a comfortable life.
    Last year I had this epiphany that there is a generation who will never be able to retire because they don't own their own home so will have to pay rent in retirement.

    Sunak thinks they need to work harder.
    As I pointed out earlier today - anyone in that situation need not bother saving money for their retirement - they would be vastly better off ensuring they have little to no private pension and maximising what the Government gives them in pension credits (housing benefit, council tax credit....)
    The primary aim for anybody renting should be to become an owner occupier if they possibly can. Owning a cramped flat is vastly superior to renting a house, and the latter should only be contemplated if you're completely desperate for brat storage cells and have absolutely zero chance of obtaining a large enough mortgage. The future for people who can't get off the renting treadmill in this country is to slave away paying for a landlord's mortgage or their luxury spending, until you either drop down dead or get too sick and exhausted to work (in which case, welcome to the local pauper retirement village, in a cardboard box under a flyover.)

    The benefits of pension saving are always being extolled by Government and financial advisors alike, but really you have to stuff so much into a private pension for it to end up being worth anything in retirement that it's a luxury extra for people with a lot of disposable cash.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392

    isam said:

    And with current Tory voters, Boris beats Cameron 41-17 with the rest nowhere


    Which has been the best Conservative PM since 2010?

    Boris Johnson: 21%
    David Cameron: 19%
    Theresa May: 12%
    Rishi Sunak: 6%
    Liz Truss: 1%
    Don't know: 41%



    https://x.com/yougov/status/1759997144864522418?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Braindead the lot of them.

    Cameron is clearly the best by a country mile.
    Style over substance.
    I am glad you're finally understanding what Boris Johnson is like.
    Compare Cameron's response to Russian agression with Johnson's.
    Cameron has been spot on the thug running the Israeli Government. For that he has my support.

    Voted for his party before, would do so again if he was the leader.
    Against Starmer this year?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    Adam Carlson
    @admcrlsn
    If we allocate states that haven’t been polled in 2024 to their 2020 victor, here’s what that map looks like

    Apart from PA, this is a pretty reasonable map for a Trump +2 nat’l popular vote win

    The easiest paths to 270 for Biden would be flipping:
    • WI+MI
    • MI+AZ
    • WI+AZ+NV


    https://twitter.com/admcrlsn/status/1759258724319834248
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,559

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    This should be an interesting case, things always get better when lawyers get involved.

    Today I have been passed the identities of 14 British citizens who have been fighting for the genocidal IDF as it massacres the people of Gaza.

    This file will be passed onto lawyers with the intent of getting these people prosecuted.


    https://twitter.com/RmSalih/status/1759962349144858973

    Israel is starting to find itself friendless tbh
    There was a very well informed guest on Today this morning. An ex US Ambassador to Israel. He said that that the IDF had destroyed 18 of the 24 battalions operated by Hamas. 4 of the remaining 6 are hiding in Rafah. When you look at it like that it is pretty hard not to see the IDF going in to get them. I am not even sure that they shouldn't.
    Of course they bloody should.

    The racists and extremists on the far left and far right have never liked Israel or Jews anyway, their futile gesturer politics needs to be ignored and Israel needs to just keep calm and carry on until Hamas is entirely destroyed.
    There are racists and extremists who have never liked Arabs and Muslims.
    Racists and extremists will always choose minorities to go against: because they need the support of majorities. Therefore the Jews - a minority in every country except Israel, and an ancient race with ancient enmities - are often the go-to enemy. In many countries, immigrants are the 'enemy' - witness the Irish or Italians in America in the 1800s - until such time as they become settled and 'one of us'.

    But this differs from country to country. The racists and extremists in (say) Indonesia or Gabon might be very different to those in the UK, Germany or the US. But I reckon their basic motivations will be fairly similar.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    We're back to one of the fundamental beliefs of Sunakism, namely that everything would be fine if we all did the decent thing and became highly paid hedge fund traders.

    Anyone who has failed to do this is showing a shocking lack of ambition and is frankly letting the country down.
    I am probably one of the few people qualified to talk about this as I come from the same background as Sunak but I think Sunak is displaying the traits of our parents where the expectation is your kids can become a doctor/lawyer/accountant/banker etc if they work hard which means lots of money.

    They don't appreciate what they take for granted doesn't apply to everybody, not every can send their kids to private schools or have parents who think an A minus at school has brought shame to the family.
    Watched yet another Storyville last night called Try Harder about a bunch of kids, nearly all Asian, trying to get into top colleges from Lowells, the number 1 ranked school in California. It was described as Tiger Mum central and there was certainly more than a bit of that but there was also interesting insights into racial politics in education in the US.

    Stanford in particular seemed to have marked disapproval of highly educated, very hard working Chinese kids whom they regarded as robots missing creativity, spontaneity, imagination etc and who got marked down despite their really exceptional results. Its a tough old system.

    Storyville really is the best thing on the BBC.
    The three-parter on the Colombia shuttle disaster has been extremely good. Available on iPlayer.
    Thanks, I'll give that a try. I love the style of Storyville. Of course the story is controlled by the editing process but everyone speaks for themselves with no intermediaries and no one telling you what to make of it all.
    It's the same format on the Columbia series. I found the last section of episode 3 particularly surprising.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068

    Carnyx said:

    Funny that. Torquay must be on some other England's Riviera then.

    We can have a English Riviera North and a Riviera South.
    I’ve just had to tear myself away from the American Riviera to fly to Austin and sort some shit out.

    I hate it when people interrupt my holidays. Why can’t they just stay in their box once they are put there?
    You're a... vampire hunter?
  • Rocket fans can watch a SpaceX launch in 5 minutes
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzYonTLnRY0
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    Interesting thread from a Dem operative:


    Kaivan Shroff
    @KaivanShroff
    ·
    Feb 19
    Some delusional scenario where the party instead anoints a Biden replacement at the Democratic National Convention in August, just over 3 months away from election day, and then that candidate goes on to defeat Trump is beyond even Aaron Sorkin’s imagination.


    Kaivan Shroff
    @KaivanShroff
    ·
    Feb 19
    Joe Biden is the best candidate to beat Donald Trump in just 9 months. Even if he wasn’t, there is no time left and there are no alternatives.


    https://twitter.com/KaivanShroff/status/1759627786455544007
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,408
    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    Funny that. Torquay must be on some other England's Riviera then.

    We can have a English Riviera North and a Riviera South.
    I’ve just had to tear myself away from the American Riviera to fly to Austin and sort some shit out.

    I hate it when people interrupt my holidays. Why can’t they just stay in their box once they are put there?
    You're a... vampire hunter?
    Or he's Superman.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    geoffw said:

    Just heard the last of Richard Strauss's "Four last songs" on R3's Mixtape … it could go on forever afaiac

    And then there's Elektra, Salome, Rosenkavalier, Capriccio the Oboe concerto - that Schwanengesang of western culture and a whole way of life.
  • Clutch_BromptonClutch_Brompton Posts: 737
    edited February 20
    I seldom give the current manifestation of Cons much credit but I will say that the recall procedure for dumping crooked MPs is a genuine achievement of the 14 years in Govt. Its not a long list so we should give credit where it is due. I doubt Mr Sunak feels that way at the moment however.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366
    pigeon said:

    eek said:

    pigeon said:

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    We're back to one of the fundamental beliefs of Sunakism, namely that everything would be fine if we all did the decent thing and became highly paid hedge fund traders.

    Anyone who has failed to do this is showing a shocking lack of ambition and is frankly letting the country down.
    I am probably one of the few people qualified to talk about this as I come from the same background as Sunak but I think Sunak is displaying the traits of our parents where the expectation is your kids can become a doctor/lawyer/accountant/banker etc if they work hard which means lots of money.

    They don't appreciate what they take for granted doesn't apply to everybody, not every can send their kids to private schools or have parents who think an A minus at school has brought shame to the family.
    That, and he's not twigged (or is wilfully ignoring) the fact that hard work doesn't necessarily get you anywhere nowadays in any case.

    Your typical recent graduate probably spends nearly their entire income on stratospheric rents, student loan repayments and taxes. If you've managed to get into casino banking or become a Premier League footballer then you might be OK; otherwise you're probably reliant on a large gift or legacy from a wealthy older relative to have a realistic prospect of ever living a comfortable life.
    Last year I had this epiphany that there is a generation who will never be able to retire because they don't own their own home so will have to pay rent in retirement.

    Sunak thinks they need to work harder.
    As I pointed out earlier today - anyone in that situation need not bother saving money for their retirement - they would be vastly better off ensuring they have little to no private pension and maximising what the Government gives them in pension credits (housing benefit, council tax credit....)
    The primary aim for anybody renting should be to become an owner occupier if they possibly can. Owning a cramped flat is vastly superior to renting a house, and the latter should only be contemplated if you're completely desperate for brat storage cells and have absolutely zero chance of obtaining a large enough mortgage. The future for people who can't get off the renting treadmill in this country is to slave away paying for a landlord's mortgage or their luxury spending, until you either drop down dead or get too sick and exhausted to work (in which case, welcome to the local pauper retirement village, in a cardboard box under a flyover.)

    The benefits of pension saving are always being extolled by Government and financial advisors alike, but really you have to stuff so much into a private pension for it to end up being worth anything in retirement that it's a luxury extra for people with a lot of disposable cash.
    As @Casino_Royale was pointing out earlier - it's only after the children leave Uni that you have a fighting chance of having spare cash to throw a lot into the pension pot - and then it's only because the mortgage and everything else is paid off.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited February 20
    Given Blackpool South is only 65th in the Labour target list and a seat Labour could win and still see the Tories win most seats, the pressure in this by election may be more on Starmer than Sunak.

    It is a must win for Labour, less so for the Tories and Sunak has already brushed off by election losses in far safer Tory seats than this one
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664

    algarkirk said:

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    Well, it's true isn't it. As most of them can't actually make a living out of it thanks to the supermarkets supply chain squeezes.
    I am massively pro farmer and UK agriculture. However there is no point in speculating on the finances of farmers unless one actually shows you their audited accounts and tax returns running over several years. (This won't happen). But a wander round the car park at the livestock auction is always an interesting exercise, as is a reflection on how much farmers are actually willing to pay to acquire more land so that they can make even greater losses on their gentlemanly hobby.
    Coming from a farming family, the best thing about being a farmer is the land*. With land there's unrealised business opportunity, a huge inheritance tax advantage and it only seems to go up in value.

    *Assuming you're not a tenant.
    Mrs Flatlander was talking to a farmer the other day about Defra's Biodiversity Net Gain wheeze which is supposed to pay landowners to encourage wildlife friendly land management in return for money from developers.

    He asked her what the position of land in BNG management was in terms of IHT and how the income from BNG will be taxed as nobody seemed to know.

    The answer it turns out is that the Treasury have not yet decided. Land in BNG if no longer farmed may be liable for IHT. Or it may not.

    Joined up government again. No farmers will touch that with a bargepole.

    Hence the council is running around trying to find corners of land it owns that they could plant a few trees on / remove trees from (delete as appropriate).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889

    Interesting thread from a Dem operative:


    Kaivan Shroff
    @KaivanShroff
    ·
    Feb 19
    Some delusional scenario where the party instead anoints a Biden replacement at the Democratic National Convention in August, just over 3 months away from election day, and then that candidate goes on to defeat Trump is beyond even Aaron Sorkin’s imagination.


    Kaivan Shroff
    @KaivanShroff
    ·
    Feb 19
    Joe Biden is the best candidate to beat Donald Trump in just 9 months. Even if he wasn’t, there is no time left and there are no alternatives.


    https://twitter.com/KaivanShroff/status/1759627786455544007

    The judges and juries in Trump's criminal trials may have more influence on the election result than whoever the Democratic nominee is, Biden or not
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    HYUFD said:

    Given Blackpool South is only 65th in the Labour target list and a seat Labour could win and still see the Tories win most seats, the pressure in this by election may be more on Starmer than Sunak.

    It is a must win for Labour, less so for the Tories and Sunak has already brushed off by election losses in far safer Tory seats than this one

    "Brushed off" is working so hard there it's heading for an early grave.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    edited February 20

    I seldom give the current manifestation of Cons much credit but I will say that the recall procedure for dumping crooked MPs is a genuine achievement of the 14 years in Govt. Its not a long list so we should give credit where it is due. I doubt Mr Sunak feels that way at the moment however.

    That was the Con-LD Coalition government surely? As was the other big positive change of the past 14 years: same-sex marriage.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889

    This should be an interesting case, things always get better when lawyers get involved.

    Today I have been passed the identities of 14 British citizens who have been fighting for the genocidal IDF as it massacres the people of Gaza.

    This file will be passed onto lawyers with the intent of getting these people prosecuted.


    https://twitter.com/RmSalih/status/1759962349144858973

    How can you prosecute people fighting voluntarily for the Israeli army, the IDF is not listed as a terrorist organisation in the UK?
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779
    HYUFD said:

    This should be an interesting case, things always get better when lawyers get involved.

    Today I have been passed the identities of 14 British citizens who have been fighting for the genocidal IDF as it massacres the people of Gaza.

    This file will be passed onto lawyers with the intent of getting these people prosecuted.


    https://twitter.com/RmSalih/status/1759962349144858973

    How can you prosecute people fighting voluntarily for the Israeli army, the IDF is not listed as a terrorist organisation in the UK?
    Maybe you're a nutter and think the nonsense your whatsapp group has been spouting has some basis in law?
  • eek said:

    pigeon said:

    eek said:

    pigeon said:

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    We're back to one of the fundamental beliefs of Sunakism, namely that everything would be fine if we all did the decent thing and became highly paid hedge fund traders.

    Anyone who has failed to do this is showing a shocking lack of ambition and is frankly letting the country down.
    I am probably one of the few people qualified to talk about this as I come from the same background as Sunak but I think Sunak is displaying the traits of our parents where the expectation is your kids can become a doctor/lawyer/accountant/banker etc if they work hard which means lots of money.

    They don't appreciate what they take for granted doesn't apply to everybody, not every can send their kids to private schools or have parents who think an A minus at school has brought shame to the family.
    That, and he's not twigged (or is wilfully ignoring) the fact that hard work doesn't necessarily get you anywhere nowadays in any case.

    Your typical recent graduate probably spends nearly their entire income on stratospheric rents, student loan repayments and taxes. If you've managed to get into casino banking or become a Premier League footballer then you might be OK; otherwise you're probably reliant on a large gift or legacy from a wealthy older relative to have a realistic prospect of ever living a comfortable life.
    Last year I had this epiphany that there is a generation who will never be able to retire because they don't own their own home so will have to pay rent in retirement.

    Sunak thinks they need to work harder.
    As I pointed out earlier today - anyone in that situation need not bother saving money for their retirement - they would be vastly better off ensuring they have little to no private pension and maximising what the Government gives them in pension credits (housing benefit, council tax credit....)
    The primary aim for anybody renting should be to become an owner occupier if they possibly can. Owning a cramped flat is vastly superior to renting a house, and the latter should only be contemplated if you're completely desperate for brat storage cells and have absolutely zero chance of obtaining a large enough mortgage. The future for people who can't get off the renting treadmill in this country is to slave away paying for a landlord's mortgage or their luxury spending, until you either drop down dead or get too sick and exhausted to work (in which case, welcome to the local pauper retirement village, in a cardboard box under a flyover.)

    The benefits of pension saving are always being extolled by Government and financial advisors alike, but really you have to stuff so much into a private pension for it to end up being worth anything in retirement that it's a luxury extra for people with a lot of disposable cash.
    As @Casino_Royale was pointing out earlier - it's only after the children leave Uni that you have a fighting chance of having spare cash to throw a lot into the pension pot - and then it's only because the mortgage and everything else is paid off.
    And its only paid off if you were able to get on the property ladder and a younger age, which is increasingly not the case.

    If you can only get on the property ladder in your mid 40s then you'll be lucky to pay off your mortgage by retirement age, let alone start saving for a pension then.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    edited February 20
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    This should be an interesting case, things always get better when lawyers get involved.

    Today I have been passed the identities of 14 British citizens who have been fighting for the genocidal IDF as it massacres the people of Gaza.

    This file will be passed onto lawyers with the intent of getting these people prosecuted.


    https://twitter.com/RmSalih/status/1759962349144858973

    Israel is starting to find itself friendless tbh
    There was a very well informed guest on Today this morning. An ex US Ambassador to Israel. He said that that the IDF had destroyed 18 of the 24 battalions operated by Hamas. 4 of the remaining 6 are hiding in Rafah. When you look at it like that it is pretty hard not to see the IDF going in to get them. I am not even sure that they shouldn't.
    This is war. Hamas could have surrendered, released the hostages and asked for talks. (The world has rarely been more sympathetic to the Palestinians). Hamas have not done this.

    The actions of Hamas have been almost ignored. Even to the extraordinary extent that when anyone speaks of 'immediate ceasefire' it is assumed they are speaking of Israel and not of Hamas.

    Hamas's many allies have had abundant time to weigh in militarily on Hamas's side. They have not. Time's up.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    HYUFD said:

    Given Blackpool South is only 65th in the Labour target list and a seat Labour could win and still see the Tories win most seats, the pressure in this by election may be more on Starmer than Sunak.

    It is a must win for Labour, less so for the Tories and Sunak has already brushed off by election losses in far safer Tory seats than this one

    I am sure Starmer will somehow manage to soak up that pressure.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366

    eek said:

    pigeon said:

    eek said:

    pigeon said:

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    We're back to one of the fundamental beliefs of Sunakism, namely that everything would be fine if we all did the decent thing and became highly paid hedge fund traders.

    Anyone who has failed to do this is showing a shocking lack of ambition and is frankly letting the country down.
    I am probably one of the few people qualified to talk about this as I come from the same background as Sunak but I think Sunak is displaying the traits of our parents where the expectation is your kids can become a doctor/lawyer/accountant/banker etc if they work hard which means lots of money.

    They don't appreciate what they take for granted doesn't apply to everybody, not every can send their kids to private schools or have parents who think an A minus at school has brought shame to the family.
    That, and he's not twigged (or is wilfully ignoring) the fact that hard work doesn't necessarily get you anywhere nowadays in any case.

    Your typical recent graduate probably spends nearly their entire income on stratospheric rents, student loan repayments and taxes. If you've managed to get into casino banking or become a Premier League footballer then you might be OK; otherwise you're probably reliant on a large gift or legacy from a wealthy older relative to have a realistic prospect of ever living a comfortable life.
    Last year I had this epiphany that there is a generation who will never be able to retire because they don't own their own home so will have to pay rent in retirement.

    Sunak thinks they need to work harder.
    As I pointed out earlier today - anyone in that situation need not bother saving money for their retirement - they would be vastly better off ensuring they have little to no private pension and maximising what the Government gives them in pension credits (housing benefit, council tax credit....)
    The primary aim for anybody renting should be to become an owner occupier if they possibly can. Owning a cramped flat is vastly superior to renting a house, and the latter should only be contemplated if you're completely desperate for brat storage cells and have absolutely zero chance of obtaining a large enough mortgage. The future for people who can't get off the renting treadmill in this country is to slave away paying for a landlord's mortgage or their luxury spending, until you either drop down dead or get too sick and exhausted to work (in which case, welcome to the local pauper retirement village, in a cardboard box under a flyover.)

    The benefits of pension saving are always being extolled by Government and financial advisors alike, but really you have to stuff so much into a private pension for it to end up being worth anything in retirement that it's a luxury extra for people with a lot of disposable cash.
    As @Casino_Royale was pointing out earlier - it's only after the children leave Uni that you have a fighting chance of having spare cash to throw a lot into the pension pot - and then it's only because the mortgage and everything else is paid off.
    And its only paid off if you were able to get on the property ladder and a younger age, which is increasingly not the case.

    If you can only get on the property ladder in your mid 40s then you'll be lucky to pay off your mortgage by retirement age, let alone start saving for a pension then.
    Yep - the reality is that because we haven't built enough houses over the last 20 years we've created problems that are going to continue to play out for the next 70 years...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    isam said:

    And with current Tory voters, Boris beats Cameron 41-17 with the rest nowhere


    Which has been the best Conservative PM since 2010?

    Boris Johnson: 21%
    David Cameron: 19%
    Theresa May: 12%
    Rishi Sunak: 6%
    Liz Truss: 1%
    Don't know: 41%



    https://x.com/yougov/status/1759997144864522418?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    If you had offered Theresa May the prospect of already having risen to mid table of post 2010 Tory PMs in a yougov poll when she resigned in Spring 2019, I expect she would have bitten your hand off!
  • HYUFD said:

    This should be an interesting case, things always get better when lawyers get involved.

    Today I have been passed the identities of 14 British citizens who have been fighting for the genocidal IDF as it massacres the people of Gaza.

    This file will be passed onto lawyers with the intent of getting these people prosecuted.


    https://twitter.com/RmSalih/status/1759962349144858973

    How can you prosecute people fighting voluntarily for the Israeli army, the IDF is not listed as a terrorist organisation in the UK?
    Of course you can't, its clear nonsense. An attention whore and money making scam by someone.

    British law is entirely clear that British citizens (both dual national and exclusively British nationals) are perfectly entitled to fight for other countries legal armies.

    And if those British nationals are dual-nationals, they might be in their own (other) nation's army in which case what on earth do you think you're going to do about it?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    HYUFD said:

    Interesting thread from a Dem operative:


    Kaivan Shroff
    @KaivanShroff
    ·
    Feb 19
    Some delusional scenario where the party instead anoints a Biden replacement at the Democratic National Convention in August, just over 3 months away from election day, and then that candidate goes on to defeat Trump is beyond even Aaron Sorkin’s imagination.


    Kaivan Shroff
    @KaivanShroff
    ·
    Feb 19
    Joe Biden is the best candidate to beat Donald Trump in just 9 months. Even if he wasn’t, there is no time left and there are no alternatives.


    https://twitter.com/KaivanShroff/status/1759627786455544007

    The judges and juries in Trump's criminal trials may have more influence on the election result than whoever the Democratic nominee is, Biden or not
    Unless he is barred from running somehow through legal processes he is the nominee.

    GOP will make him nominee even if he is in prison.



  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    HYUFD said:

    Given Blackpool South is only 65th in the Labour target list and a seat Labour could win and still see the Tories win most seats, the pressure in this by election may be more on Starmer than Sunak.

    It is a must win for Labour, less so for the Tories and Sunak has already brushed off by election losses in far safer Tory seats than this one

    If the Tories only lose 64 seats to Labour and no others in the GE, then yes they have 301 seats. Others will have 348+speaker, 340 approx without SF, 332 approx without the DUP. Starmer becomes PM (with 266 seats), though probably not for long before another election.

    What larks.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779
    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    We're back to one of the fundamental beliefs of Sunakism, namely that everything would be fine if we all did the decent thing and became highly paid hedge fund traders.

    Anyone who has failed to do this is showing a shocking lack of ambition and is frankly letting the country down.
    I am probably one of the few people qualified to talk about this as I come from the same background as Sunak but I think Sunak is displaying the traits of our parents where the expectation is your kids can become a doctor/lawyer/accountant/banker etc if they work hard which means lots of money.

    They don't appreciate what they take for granted doesn't apply to everybody, not every can send their kids to private schools or have parents who think an A minus at school has brought shame to the family.
    That, and he's not twigged (or is wilfully ignoring) the fact that hard work doesn't necessarily get you anywhere nowadays in any case.

    Your typical recent graduate probably spends nearly their entire income on stratospheric rents, student loan repayments and taxes. If you've managed to get into casino banking or become a Premier League footballer then you might be OK; otherwise you're probably reliant on a large gift or legacy from a wealthy older relative to have a realistic prospect of ever living a comfortable life.
    Last year I had this epiphany that there is a generation who will never be able to retire because they don't own their own home so will have to pay rent in retirement.

    Sunak thinks they need to work harder.
    This has been blindingly obvious for many years to anyone willing to see.

    Just wait and see what state the nation's youth (and half the middle-aged by that point as well) will be in after another two decades of compound inflation of both house prices and the state pension (because if you think mass scale housebuilding, tight controls on immigration or the abolition of the triple lock are going to ride to the rescue, you're in for a serious disappointment.) Most of the population under 50 will be camped out in a vast favela either side of the Thames Estuary, paying income tax at 95p in the pound and scavenging for food on refuse tips.

    This is an exaggeration. But not much of one.
    I was chatting to some Young People even a few years ago and the idea of buying somewhere was just laughably unimaginable to them. Not even a pipe-dream.

    I got 'lucky' myself and my father died young and left me juuuuust enough money to pay the deposit on a one bedroom flat in the bad part of town. Otherwise I'd still be renting myself.
  • HYUFD said:

    This should be an interesting case, things always get better when lawyers get involved.

    Today I have been passed the identities of 14 British citizens who have been fighting for the genocidal IDF as it massacres the people of Gaza.

    This file will be passed onto lawyers with the intent of getting these people prosecuted.


    https://twitter.com/RmSalih/status/1759962349144858973

    How can you prosecute people fighting voluntarily for the Israeli army, the IDF is not listed as a terrorist organisation in the UK?
    Of course you can't, its clear nonsense. An attention whore and money making scam by someone.

    British law is entirely clear that British citizens (both dual national and exclusively British nationals) are perfectly entitled to fight for other countries legal armies.

    And if those British nationals are dual-nationals, they might be in their own (other) nation's army in which case what on earth do you think you're going to do about it?
    IANAL but note the word genocidal in the tweet.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given Blackpool South is only 65th in the Labour target list and a seat Labour could win and still see the Tories win most seats, the pressure in this by election may be more on Starmer than Sunak.

    It is a must win for Labour, less so for the Tories and Sunak has already brushed off by election losses in far safer Tory seats than this one

    If the Tories only lose 64 seats to Labour and no others in the GE, then yes they have 301 seats. Others will have 348+speaker, 340 approx without SF, 332 approx without the DUP. Starmer becomes PM (with 266 seats), though probably not for long before another election.

    What larks.
    LAB will probably get more than 266. However the outcome is not certain and those LAB supporters on here expecting a huge majority could end up disappointed.
  • isam said:

    And with current Tory voters, Boris beats Cameron 41-17 with the rest nowhere


    Which has been the best Conservative PM since 2010?

    Boris Johnson: 21%
    David Cameron: 19%
    Theresa May: 12%
    Rishi Sunak: 6%
    Liz Truss: 1%
    Don't know: 41%



    https://x.com/yougov/status/1759997144864522418?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Braindead the lot of them.

    Cameron is clearly the best by a country mile.
    Style over substance.
    I am glad you're finally understanding what Boris Johnson is like.
    Compare Cameron's response to Russian agression with Johnson's.
    Cameron has been spot on the thug running the Israeli Government. For that he has my support.

    Voted for his party before, would do so again if he was the leader.
    Against Starmer this year?
    BJO must have hijacked his account :lol:
  • HYUFD said:

    This should be an interesting case, things always get better when lawyers get involved.

    Today I have been passed the identities of 14 British citizens who have been fighting for the genocidal IDF as it massacres the people of Gaza.

    This file will be passed onto lawyers with the intent of getting these people prosecuted.


    https://twitter.com/RmSalih/status/1759962349144858973

    How can you prosecute people fighting voluntarily for the Israeli army, the IDF is not listed as a terrorist organisation in the UK?
    War crimes.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b02c746e5274a52093587d3/universal-jurisdiction-note-web.pdf
  • algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given Blackpool South is only 65th in the Labour target list and a seat Labour could win and still see the Tories win most seats, the pressure in this by election may be more on Starmer than Sunak.

    It is a must win for Labour, less so for the Tories and Sunak has already brushed off by election losses in far safer Tory seats than this one

    If the Tories only lose 64 seats to Labour and no others in the GE, then yes they have 301 seats. Others will have 348+speaker, 340 approx without SF, 332 approx without the DUP. Starmer becomes PM (with 266 seats), though probably not for long before another election.

    What larks.
    LAB will probably get more than 266. However the outcome is not certain and those LAB supporters on here expecting a huge majority could end up disappointed.
    Well, I predicted a 25-seat majority in the PB compy :)
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    We're back to one of the fundamental beliefs of Sunakism, namely that everything would be fine if we all did the decent thing and became highly paid hedge fund traders.

    Anyone who has failed to do this is showing a shocking lack of ambition and is frankly letting the country down.
    I am probably one of the few people qualified to talk about this as I come from the same background as Sunak but I think Sunak is displaying the traits of our parents where the expectation is your kids can become a doctor/lawyer/accountant/banker etc if they work hard which means lots of money.

    They don't appreciate what they take for granted doesn't apply to everybody, not every can send their kids to private schools or have parents who think an A minus at school has brought shame to the family.
    That, and he's not twigged (or is wilfully ignoring) the fact that hard work doesn't necessarily get you anywhere nowadays in any case.

    Your typical recent graduate probably spends nearly their entire income on stratospheric rents, student loan repayments and taxes. If you've managed to get into casino banking or become a Premier League footballer then you might be OK; otherwise you're probably reliant on a large gift or legacy from a wealthy older relative to have a realistic prospect of ever living a comfortable life.
    Last year I had this epiphany that there is a generation who will never be able to retire because they don't own their own home so will have to pay rent in retirement.

    Sunak thinks they need to work harder.
    This has been blindingly obvious for many years to anyone willing to see.

    Just wait and see what state the nation's youth (and half the middle-aged by that point as well) will be in after another two decades of compound inflation of both house prices and the state pension (because if you think mass scale housebuilding, tight controls on immigration or the abolition of the triple lock are going to ride to the rescue, you're in for a serious disappointment.) Most of the population under 50 will be camped out in a vast favela either side of the Thames Estuary, paying income tax at 95p in the pound and scavenging for food on refuse tips.

    This is an exaggeration. But not much of one.
    For me, the trigger was quite a few friends and colleagues who told me they couldn't start a family because of the living situation.

    These aren't people on minimum wage but professionals like me maybe 20 years ago.

    Best thing to ever happen to me financially was my parents getting me onto the London housing market in 2000 when I was 21 and not even started my first job rather than renting.
    I had to wait a lot longer than that to buy, but that (aided by about twenty years of contributions to an old fashioned defined benefit pension scheme, which is only just about to close) has made me prosperous, and with a realistic chance of at least going part-time before I'm 60 rather than facing being forced to work until I die. Not rich by any reasonable definition, but certainly comfortable - especially since I got married and the capital gain on my husband's flat was so gigantic that it more than paid off the mortgage.

    Property is now so stupidly overvalued, and the economy is so bent around the housing market, that owners have become completely dominant as both an economic and political class. We have nearly all the power and nearly all the wealth. If you don't own and lack the means to buy then, as far as Britain's system of values is concerned, your worth to society consists of being a cash machine for a landlord. The Government then helps itself to most of what's left of your wages, so it can give it in inflation-busting freebie handouts to retired stockbrokers living in million pounds houses. It's both cruel and ridiculous, and would be laughable if it weren't so sad.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    edited February 20
    Not a good look:

    Home secretary sacks borders watchdog via Zoom after clash

    ...David Neal, the independent chief inspector of borders and immigration, was told by a top civil servant on Tuesday that James Cleverly was terminating his job with immediate effect.

    ...Friends of Neal have said he had raised on several occasions the government’s failure to publish 15 reports that uncovered problems within the borders and immigration system dating back to last April.

    These included inquiries that could be politically explosive, including into unaccompanied children being housed in hotels and illegal working enforcement. Civil servants have also been accused of delaying investigations into the government’s plans to process asylum claims in Rwanda.

    Other unpublished reports, which were supposed to be released as long ago as last June, include examinations of ePassport gate inspections; Border Force parcel operations; the Border Force’s firearms procedures; illegal working enforcement; asylum accommodation; immigration enforcement; and the processing of migrants arriving by small boats.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/feb/20/home-secretary-sacks-borders-watchdog-david-neal-via-zoom
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    HYUFD said:

    This should be an interesting case, things always get better when lawyers get involved.

    Today I have been passed the identities of 14 British citizens who have been fighting for the genocidal IDF as it massacres the people of Gaza.

    This file will be passed onto lawyers with the intent of getting these people prosecuted.


    https://twitter.com/RmSalih/status/1759962349144858973

    How can you prosecute people fighting voluntarily for the Israeli army, the IDF is not listed as a terrorist organisation in the UK?
    Of course you can't, its clear nonsense. An attention whore and money making scam by someone.

    British law is entirely clear that British citizens (both dual national and exclusively British nationals) are perfectly entitled to fight for other countries legal armies.

    And if those British nationals are dual-nationals, they might be in their own (other) nation's army in which case what on earth do you think you're going to do about it?
    IANAL but note the word genocidal in the tweet.
    Foreign Enlistment Act 1870 has been repealed? Who knew?
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639

    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given Blackpool South is only 65th in the Labour target list and a seat Labour could win and still see the Tories win most seats, the pressure in this by election may be more on Starmer than Sunak.

    It is a must win for Labour, less so for the Tories and Sunak has already brushed off by election losses in far safer Tory seats than this one

    If the Tories only lose 64 seats to Labour and no others in the GE, then yes they have 301 seats. Others will have 348+speaker, 340 approx without SF, 332 approx without the DUP. Starmer becomes PM (with 266 seats), though probably not for long before another election.

    What larks.
    LAB will probably get more than 266. However the outcome is not certain and those LAB supporters on here expecting a huge majority could end up disappointed.
    Well, I predicted a 25-seat majority in the PB compy :)
    I said 30 😈
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889

    I cannot believe people think Rishi Sunak is an arrogant out of touch elitist.

    Sunak faces backlash after saying farmers work for love, not money

    Prime Minister’s remarks at NFU conference rebuked by union chief as polling shows Tories face rural election woe


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/20/rishi-sunak-faces-backlash-for-saying-farmers-work-for-love/

    Not all, plenty of multi millionaire farmers round here whose families have owned their farms for generations, who live in big rustic old farmhouses and often have multiple tenants
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting thread from a Dem operative:


    Kaivan Shroff
    @KaivanShroff
    ·
    Feb 19
    Some delusional scenario where the party instead anoints a Biden replacement at the Democratic National Convention in August, just over 3 months away from election day, and then that candidate goes on to defeat Trump is beyond even Aaron Sorkin’s imagination.


    Kaivan Shroff
    @KaivanShroff
    ·
    Feb 19
    Joe Biden is the best candidate to beat Donald Trump in just 9 months. Even if he wasn’t, there is no time left and there are no alternatives.


    https://twitter.com/KaivanShroff/status/1759627786455544007

    The judges and juries in Trump's criminal trials may have more influence on the election result than whoever the Democratic nominee is, Biden or not
    Unless he is barred from running somehow through legal processes he is the nominee.

    GOP will make him nominee even if he is in prison.
    There's also the matter of filing deadlines and processes. If he's convicted after the convention it could be too late to put a different candidate on the ballot. I can find filling deadlines for independent candidates, which for some states are in June, but the rules are different for the main two parties because of the Primary process.

    The GOP might not have a choice.
This discussion has been closed.