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Why tax cuts might not be a panacea for the Tories – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    I think I may finally be bored of Phnom Penh. Time for Bangers

    Is Kuala Lumpur worth visiting?
    Yes for sure but it’s one of the less interesting of the SE Asian capitals

    The food is great but it’s much less lively. Islam keeps it pretty uptight. Also that weird Malaysian apartheid has a slightly grim ambience

    It’s relatively clean and green compared to Bangkok

    There are much nicer cities in Malaysia. Penang is great - even better food and much groovier hedonistic chinese/colonial atmosphere
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    I think I may finally be bored of Phnom Penh. Time for Bangers

    Is Kuala Lumpur worth visiting?

    The Speccie world view seems tediously homogeneous. Great though that Tucker is curious about the exciting, undiscovered country of The Truth.


    If it’s so tediously homogenous why the fuck are you following the Spectator Twitter account?

    You’re a bit like @carnyx complaining that the daily mail, which he never reads, now has a frustrating paywall
    The idea that Tucker Carlson is curious about the truth is the most ridiculous claim for anyone that has watched his show. He is an extremely dogmatic ideologue.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    I think I may finally be bored of Phnom Penh. Time for Bangers

    Is Kuala Lumpur worth visiting?
    Yes for sure but it’s one of the less interesting of the SE Asian capitals

    The food is great but it’s much less lively. Islam keeps it pretty uptight. Also that weird Malaysian apartheid has a slightly grim ambience

    It’s relatively clean and green compared to Bangkok

    There are much nicer cities in Malaysia. Penang is great - even better food and much groovier hedonistic chinese/colonial atmosphere
    I was there for a few days in 2010 and it seemed a bit authoritarian and subdued, which I guess is some people's cup of tea.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Andy_JS said:

    Interesting interview imo.

    "Freddie Sayers and Konstantin Kisin: What happened to Tucker Carlson?"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPwMLAv6wWg

    Tucker has always been like this. His mother was a left wing libertine that abandoned him as a kid. He has hated all things liberal ever since.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366
    edited February 20
    eek said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    PB might be interested to find that the government has performed a dangerous u-turn on tax breaks for double cab pick-up trucks.

    These kinds of vehicles are responsible in the large increase in child road casualties in the US (estimates of around 8x more deadly in a collision, plus reduced visibility over high bonnets). More dangerous than XL Bullies, I'll wager.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/update-on-hmrc-double-cab-pick-up-guidance

    The difference is that in the US, they are used by every fool to go and buy a Starbucks.

    Double cab pickups are only used (to a high degree of confidence) in the U.K. by businesses which need to transport combinations of people and materials. Builders are the classic example.

    The difference is that in the US, culture and taxation encourages absurd vehicles.

    Interestingly, in the UK, their introduction led to a drop in injuries from the good old practise of piling people and tools together in the back of the Transit. An actual seat with crash protection, a seat belt and no piles of sharp heavy things is safer. Who knew?
    I suppose we can wait and see what happens.- it's true that this hasn't happened yet in the UK.

    Transits have much better visibility than pick-up trucks.

    There isnt the cult of the monster car, in the U.K. The urban SUV thing is people buying a shorter, higher vehicle to get the same space as an estate car in less length.

    No one buys a long cab for fun in the U.K.. They are van sized, but with more seats and reduced load space, compared to the same footprint.

    The reason for buying them is carrying more than 3 people. Unless you want to go back to vans with people squatting in the back?
    The transit double cab is an option. Much more secure and rain free space for putting stuff and far lower to the ground for the heavy things. Propa' builders have a double cab flat bed van for heavy stuff.

    I do think subsidising the double cab SUVs is a little perverse. They are less efficient, more dangerous and worse for carrying stuff. The positives, well, they have words like SPARTAN, WARRIOR & RANGER plastered on them. They'd paste a Yaris from a standing start. And my experience is they are driven by people who take the road wars seriously.
    There is a lived experience gap at play. I drove to town yesterday and on my 36 miles round-trip passed 10 or so of these trucks. All dirty. All with a top box. Several towing something.

    I know two local contractors who use them - both run their business from home (no, not a garage gym in their suburban semi). The ideal vehicle for their needs. The people saying "less efficient" are not the people using them. From a fuel perspective? Sure - 30mpg. But practically speaking? A vehicle which lets you do jobs and haul stuff and carry passengers?
    As I said before - people abuse the system so HMRC clamp down and people get caught in the cross fire.

    Given that you can still buy them up to 1st July and the final deadline is April 2028 - HMRC have been way more generous than they’ve ever been when I’ve been caught in the cross fire of an HMRC clampdown
    Scrap the above - the Government is so desperate for votes they are legislating to remove the change so you double cab tax abuse can continue

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/update-on-hmrc-double-cab-pick-up-guidance
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    edited February 20
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    I think I may finally be bored of Phnom Penh. Time for Bangers

    Is Kuala Lumpur worth visiting?
    Yes for sure but it’s one of the less interesting of the SE Asian capitals

    The food is great but it’s much less lively. Islam keeps it pretty uptight. Also that weird Malaysian apartheid has a slightly grim ambience

    It’s relatively clean and green compared to Bangkok

    There are much nicer cities in Malaysia. Penang is great - even better food and much groovier hedonistic chinese/colonial atmosphere
    I was there for a few days in 2010 and it seemed a bit authoritarian and subdued, which I guess is some people's cup of tea.
    That’s a fair summary

    Bangkok and PP are much more fun, likewise Saigon and Hanoi

    Even Singapore is more fun than KL
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,286
    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott Benton loses appeal against 35 day suspension.
    Meaning. Recall petition and possible by election in Blackpool South.

    Frustratingly this is yet another obvious Labour target. The Lib Dem by-election options have really dried up in the last 12 months after a purple patch earlier in the parliament.
    Looking at the timings for this, compared to Wellingborough, if Benton forces the recall petition, it is likely not to close until mid April and the by-election would likely be slayed in for June.

    If he takes the option to go without forcing recall, it might line up with May.

    Worth looking out for the government keeping its options open and holding back on calling the by-election once Benton is removed.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-68341244

    AG to appeal the Nottingham triple killing sentence. SFAICS it isn't actually appealable because of the agreement as to his mental state. One to watch with interest.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    I'm reading "The Presidents" by Iain Dale. Freddy Gray (not Freddie Sayers) did the Nixon entry, and it has the Spectator style: self-pitying victimisation mixed in with some legitimately good observations. Worth reading but I wish they'd learn NPOV. Anyhoo, there's an accompanying podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/nz/podcast/richard-nixon/id1535436589?i=1000560022599
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464
    Pro_Rata said:

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott Benton loses appeal against 35 day suspension.
    Meaning. Recall petition and possible by election in Blackpool South.

    Frustratingly this is yet another obvious Labour target. The Lib Dem by-election options have really dried up in the last 12 months after a purple patch earlier in the parliament.
    Looking at the timings for this, compared to Wellingborough, if Benton forces the recall petition, it is likely not to close until mid April and the by-election would likely be slayed in for June.

    If he takes the option to go without forcing recall, it might line up with May.

    Worth looking out for the government keeping its options open and holding back on calling the by-election once Benton is removed.
    Ref UK will be a real issue in this seat I sense so a really tricky Tory defence.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    "Men and women's brains do work differently, scientists discover for first time
    Academics have previously argued that it is society rather than biology that influences divergence"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/19/men-women-brains-work-differently-scientists-discover
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,678
    WillG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Interesting interview imo.

    "Freddie Sayers and Konstantin Kisin: What happened to Tucker Carlson?"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPwMLAv6wWg

    Tucker has always been like this. His mother was a left wing libertine that abandoned him as a kid. He has hated all things liberal ever since.
    And how did he get to become one of those people who are always referenced by their first name?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366
    I see Birmingham are closing 25 out of its 36 libraries to reduce costs
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,393

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    malcolmg said:

    148grss said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Isn't the answer to marginal tax woes quite simply to salary sacrifice more into your pension ?

    I mean the annual allowance is 60 grand a year !

    Yes, time and time again I get this advice, but with two kids, a mortgage and big bills to pay I need the money now.

    It's a choice between deferring near 100% for at least 15 years (and getting nothing now) and taking a 60% haircut, but getting 40% now.
    Maybe you should just live within your means - stop buying avocado toast and such. That's the advice that always seems to come to my generation when we complain about our income being shit. Bootstraps, pull them up by, etc.
    Green with envy, rather than going out and working hard like Casino you prefer to whine about people who work hard being better off than lazy barstewards like yourself.
    @Casino_Royale ’s only problem is that he lives down south so has a mortgage that is way bigger than the equivalent mortgage would be further north.
    And this is why I think the housing crisis is overstated. There is absolutely nothing stopping people from moving to Retford. Look at this bargain:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/120535733#/?channel=RES_BUY
    How many 100k jobs available near Retford? How many 100k jobs available in London? Wfh may change things (substantially?) but there absolutely is something stopping all the people on good household incomes in London and the other hotspots moving to somewhere more affordable. Jobs.
    The 06:51 gets you into KGX for 08:30:

    https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C28967/2024-02-27/detailed

    That property is only a 15 minute walk from the station. Plenty of people do similar journeys from Hampshire and Wiltshire. Here's what you get for a similar price in Salisbury which is a similar commute to London:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/137356181#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Okay, maybe there are more good jobs in Salisbury than Retford but plenty commute up to London.
    So its about a 4.5-5hr roundtrip commute to work each day when things go well. Works for some. For others life is too short.
    Salisbury is 1h30 typically to Waterloo. I make that 3 h daily. And useful time to work or read or listen to pod casts etc
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    eek said:

    I see Birmingham are closing 25 out of its 36 libraries to reduce costs

    I'm quite pissed off about that.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366
    There’s a paper trail showing that Pauline Vennells knew way more than she let on https://twitter.com/DanNeidle/status/1759912302705324217
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354
    OnboardG1 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    PB might be interested to find that the government has performed a dangerous u-turn on tax breaks for double cab pick-up trucks.

    These kinds of vehicles are responsible in the large increase in child road casualties in the US (estimates of around 8x more deadly in a collision, plus reduced visibility over high bonnets). More dangerous than XL Bullies, I'll wager.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/update-on-hmrc-double-cab-pick-up-guidance

    The difference is that in the US, they are used by every fool to go and buy a Starbucks.

    Double cab pickups are only used (to a high degree of confidence) in the U.K. by businesses which need to transport combinations of people and materials. Builders are the classic example.

    The difference is that in the US, culture and taxation encourages absurd vehicles.

    Interestingly, in the UK, their introduction led to a drop in injuries from the good old practise of piling people and tools together in the back of the Transit. An actual seat with crash protection, a seat belt and no piles of sharp heavy things is safer. Who knew?
    I suppose we can wait and see what happens.- it's true that this hasn't happened yet in the UK.

    Transits have much better visibility than pick-up trucks.

    There isnt the cult of the monster car, in the U.K. The urban SUV thing is people buying a shorter, higher vehicle to get the same space as an estate car in less length.

    No one buys a long cab for fun in the U.K.. They are van sized, but with more seats and reduced load space, compared to the same footprint.

    The reason for buying them is carrying more than 3 people. Unless you want to go back to vans with people squatting in the back?
    The transit double cab is an option. Much more secure and rain free space for putting stuff and far lower to the ground for the heavy things. Propa' builders have a double cab flat bed van for heavy stuff.

    I do think subsidising the double cab SUVs is a little perverse. They are less efficient, more dangerous and worse for carrying stuff. The positives, well, they have words like SPARTAN, WARRIOR & RANGER plastered on them. They'd paste a Yaris from a standing start. And my experience is they are driven by people who take the road wars seriously.
    There is a lived experience gap at play. I drove to town yesterday and on my 36 miles round-trip passed 10 or so of these trucks. All dirty. All with a top box. Several towing something.

    I know two local contractors who use them - both run their business from home (no, not a garage gym in their suburban semi). The ideal vehicle for their needs. The people saying "less efficient" are not the people using them. From a fuel perspective? Sure - 30mpg. But practically speaking? A vehicle which lets you do jobs and haul stuff and carry passengers?
    Not sure pickups are the issue (I drive one for work because hauling surveying kit in anything else is an arseache). What is a problem is the increasing weight of passenger cars (up about 20% in 20 years). That’s the reason the roads are such a mess, because road stress is a fourth power law relationship to axle weight. So doubling the vehicle weight for the same number of axles causes sixteen times more stress on the road surface. 20% increase leads to double the stress on the road surface. We know that thanks to the USDOT doing those tests in the 50s, so obviously some caveats apply like the technology of the time, but vehicle weight to road stress is an exponential relationship whatever the exact coefficient. The reason the roads are getting worse are because people are buying fatter cars and everyone is picking up the bill.

    We should tax on vehicle weight like European countries are starting to do. Start by going halves on emissions and weight and slowly move to purely taxing on weight. You want a fat car? Pay for externalities.
    It will be extra vehicle movements by small vans for increased parcel deliveries that will have a much bigger impact on road wear and tear than the increase in size of private passenger cars (which should be limited for reasons of road space, pedestrian safety and car parking).
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    Pulpstar said:

    Isn't the answer to marginal tax woes quite simply to salary sacrifice more into your pension ?

    I mean the annual allowance is 60 grand a year !

    Because it's another example of late-middle aged property owners hoarding all the goodies. If you're still to get on the ladder, what's the point of paying a vast amount into your pension if it leaves you with no ability to save for the deposit on a house?

    And, yes, we're talking about a small percentage of high earners, usually in London or the SE of England who are affected by this. But, believe me - they're really, really feeling it.

    And the recent news about Rishi's 23% effective tax rate only stirs them up further. The people who're affected are livid about it.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    malcolmg said:

    148grss said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Isn't the answer to marginal tax woes quite simply to salary sacrifice more into your pension ?

    I mean the annual allowance is 60 grand a year !

    Yes, time and time again I get this advice, but with two kids, a mortgage and big bills to pay I need the money now.

    It's a choice between deferring near 100% for at least 15 years (and getting nothing now) and taking a 60% haircut, but getting 40% now.
    Maybe you should just live within your means - stop buying avocado toast and such. That's the advice that always seems to come to my generation when we complain about our income being shit. Bootstraps, pull them up by, etc.
    Green with envy, rather than going out and working hard like Casino you prefer to whine about people who work hard being better off than lazy barstewards like yourself.
    @Casino_Royale ’s only problem is that he lives down south so has a mortgage that is way bigger than the equivalent mortgage would be further north.
    And this is why I think the housing crisis is overstated. There is absolutely nothing stopping people from moving to Retford. Look at this bargain:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/120535733#/?channel=RES_BUY
    How many 100k jobs available near Retford? How many 100k jobs available in London? Wfh may change things (substantially?) but there absolutely is something stopping all the people on good household incomes in London and the other hotspots moving to somewhere more affordable. Jobs.
    The 06:51 gets you into KGX for 08:30:

    https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C28967/2024-02-27/detailed

    That property is only a 15 minute walk from the station. Plenty of people do similar journeys from Hampshire and Wiltshire. Here's what you get for a similar price in Salisbury which is a similar commute to London:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/137356181#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Okay, maybe there are more good jobs in Salisbury than Retford but plenty commute up to London.
    So its about a 4.5-5hr roundtrip commute to work each day when things go well. Works for some. For others life is too short.
    Also, what is the cost of a season ticket on that route at that time? I find these arguments ludicrous to be honest. There was once a PBer who said, in apparent honesty, that the answer to society’s problems was living in Mansfield.
    An annual season ticket from Retford to London will be around £15,000.
    So effectively adds 300k onto the "effective price" of the property (assuming a 1 income household working another 20 years).

    20-25 hours a week of commuting time is 10-15 hours a week excess commuting time, for someone with 100k a year earning potential call it 25k a year, 500k capitalised.

    Adds up to 800k extra, £1.4m equivalent budget and you start to get similar in m25 fringes. Market working well......
    Indeed. It’s almost as if there’s no such thing as a free lunch.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354
    edited February 20
    eek said:

    I see Birmingham are closing 25 out of its 36 libraries to reduce costs

    Penny-wise and pound-foolish.

    If every there was a public good that was an investment in our future it was a public library.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited February 20
    viewcode said:

    eek said:

    I see Birmingham are closing 25 out of its 36 libraries to reduce costs

    I'm quite pissed off about that.
    I use the main Birmingham library occasionally and the opening hours seem to get shorter all the time. Originally it was open on Sundays and until 9pm in the week. Now it closes at about 6pm most of the time and isn't open on Sundays (unless they've changed it recently).
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,742

    Pro_Rata said:

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott Benton loses appeal against 35 day suspension.
    Meaning. Recall petition and possible by election in Blackpool South.

    Frustratingly this is yet another obvious Labour target. The Lib Dem by-election options have really dried up in the last 12 months after a purple patch earlier in the parliament.
    Looking at the timings for this, compared to Wellingborough, if Benton forces the recall petition, it is likely not to close until mid April and the by-election would likely be slayed in for June.

    If he takes the option to go without forcing recall, it might line up with May.

    Worth looking out for the government keeping its options open and holding back on calling the by-election once Benton is removed.
    Ref UK will be a real issue in this seat I sense so a really tricky Tory defence.
    It should be a slam-dunk Labour gain. The question is how badly the Tories slump.

    *But* that's assuming there even will be a by-election.

    If the Commons votes on the suspension in around a week or so, that means the recall petition will be declared in mid-April. Conventionally, we'd be looking at a by-election in late May or early June. Even if there's not a general election on May 2 (in which case it's impossible to get in both a recall petition and by-election), the Tories could argue that it's a waste of public money to hold a by-election so close to an impending general election, and with so little parliamentary sitting time left, and simply keep the seat vacant.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,393
    algarkirk said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-68341244

    AG to appeal the Nottingham triple killing sentence. SFAICS it isn't actually appealable because of the agreement as to his mental state. One to watch with interest.

    Its clearly the process/law that it is at fault, as was explained by PB lawyers at the time. I think the questions are how correct was the diagnosis, why did it take so long to have him seen by psychologists, and were the families mislead/not kept informed during the process.

    As it stands the sentence is correct based on the verdict.

    Personally I think the law is at fault. He was convicted of attempted murder of three people, but only of manslaughter of the three he managed to kill because reasons. Its the attempted murder conviction I don't understand - why doesn't the same situation apply to that? Attempted manslaughter?

    (You can tell I am not a lawyer...)
  • algarkirk said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-68341244

    AG to appeal the Nottingham triple killing sentence. SFAICS it isn't actually appealable because of the agreement as to his mental state. One to watch with interest.

    Yes I was puzzled about whether the Attorney General knows the law or is just playing to the anti-woke crowd.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,814

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    malcolmg said:

    148grss said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Isn't the answer to marginal tax woes quite simply to salary sacrifice more into your pension ?

    I mean the annual allowance is 60 grand a year !

    Yes, time and time again I get this advice, but with two kids, a mortgage and big bills to pay I need the money now.

    It's a choice between deferring near 100% for at least 15 years (and getting nothing now) and taking a 60% haircut, but getting 40% now.
    Maybe you should just live within your means - stop buying avocado toast and such. That's the advice that always seems to come to my generation when we complain about our income being shit. Bootstraps, pull them up by, etc.
    Green with envy, rather than going out and working hard like Casino you prefer to whine about people who work hard being better off than lazy barstewards like yourself.
    @Casino_Royale ’s only problem is that he lives down south so has a mortgage that is way bigger than the equivalent mortgage would be further north.
    And this is why I think the housing crisis is overstated. There is absolutely nothing stopping people from moving to Retford. Look at this bargain:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/120535733#/?channel=RES_BUY
    How many 100k jobs available near Retford? How many 100k jobs available in London? Wfh may change things (substantially?) but there absolutely is something stopping all the people on good household incomes in London and the other hotspots moving to somewhere more affordable. Jobs.
    The 06:51 gets you into KGX for 08:30:

    https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C28967/2024-02-27/detailed

    That property is only a 15 minute walk from the station. Plenty of people do similar journeys from Hampshire and Wiltshire. Here's what you get for a similar price in Salisbury which is a similar commute to London:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/137356181#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Okay, maybe there are more good jobs in Salisbury than Retford but plenty commute up to London.
    So its about a 4.5-5hr roundtrip commute to work each day when things go well. Works for some. For others life is too short.
    Salisbury is 1h30 typically to Waterloo. I make that 3 h daily. And useful time to work or read or listen to pod casts etc
    If you live in one station and work at the other, and the trains are perfectly reliable, sure.
  • X

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    malcolmg said:

    148grss said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Isn't the answer to marginal tax woes quite simply to salary sacrifice more into your pension ?

    I mean the annual allowance is 60 grand a year !

    Yes, time and time again I get this advice, but with two kids, a mortgage and big bills to pay I need the money now.

    It's a choice between deferring near 100% for at least 15 years (and getting nothing now) and taking a 60% haircut, but getting 40% now.
    Maybe you should just live within your means - stop buying avocado toast and such. That's the advice that always seems to come to my generation when we complain about our income being shit. Bootstraps, pull them up by, etc.
    Green with envy, rather than going out and working hard like Casino you prefer to whine about people who work hard being better off than lazy barstewards like yourself.
    @Casino_Royale ’s only problem is that he lives down south so has a mortgage that is way bigger than the equivalent mortgage would be further north.
    And this is why I think the housing crisis is overstated. There is absolutely nothing stopping people from moving to Retford. Look at this bargain:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/120535733#/?channel=RES_BUY
    How many 100k jobs available near Retford? How many 100k jobs available in London? Wfh may change things (substantially?) but there absolutely is something stopping all the people on good household incomes in London and the other hotspots moving to somewhere more affordable. Jobs.
    The 06:51 gets you into KGX for 08:30:

    https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C28967/2024-02-27/detailed

    That property is only a 15 minute walk from the station. Plenty of people do similar journeys from Hampshire and Wiltshire. Here's what you get for a similar price in Salisbury which is a similar commute to London:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/137356181#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Okay, maybe there are more good jobs in Salisbury than Retford but plenty commute up to London.
    So its about a 4.5-5hr roundtrip commute to work each day when things go well. Works for some. For others life is too short.
    My daily fifteen minute round trip walking commute is one of the reasons I can work over 55 hours every week
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,393

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    malcolmg said:

    148grss said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Isn't the answer to marginal tax woes quite simply to salary sacrifice more into your pension ?

    I mean the annual allowance is 60 grand a year !

    Yes, time and time again I get this advice, but with two kids, a mortgage and big bills to pay I need the money now.

    It's a choice between deferring near 100% for at least 15 years (and getting nothing now) and taking a 60% haircut, but getting 40% now.
    Maybe you should just live within your means - stop buying avocado toast and such. That's the advice that always seems to come to my generation when we complain about our income being shit. Bootstraps, pull them up by, etc.
    Green with envy, rather than going out and working hard like Casino you prefer to whine about people who work hard being better off than lazy barstewards like yourself.
    @Casino_Royale ’s only problem is that he lives down south so has a mortgage that is way bigger than the equivalent mortgage would be further north.
    And this is why I think the housing crisis is overstated. There is absolutely nothing stopping people from moving to Retford. Look at this bargain:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/120535733#/?channel=RES_BUY
    How many 100k jobs available near Retford? How many 100k jobs available in London? Wfh may change things (substantially?) but there absolutely is something stopping all the people on good household incomes in London and the other hotspots moving to somewhere more affordable. Jobs.
    The 06:51 gets you into KGX for 08:30:

    https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C28967/2024-02-27/detailed

    That property is only a 15 minute walk from the station. Plenty of people do similar journeys from Hampshire and Wiltshire. Here's what you get for a similar price in Salisbury which is a similar commute to London:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/137356181#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Okay, maybe there are more good jobs in Salisbury than Retford but plenty commute up to London.
    So its about a 4.5-5hr roundtrip commute to work each day when things go well. Works for some. For others life is too short.
    Salisbury is 1h30 typically to Waterloo. I make that 3 h daily. And useful time to work or read or listen to pod casts etc
    If you live in one station and work at the other, and the trains are perfectly reliable, sure.
    Fair point, but when people talk commutes they don't necessarily add in the walk from the car park to the office etc

    Many many people commute from the west country to London every day. Its part of life. I drive 30 mins each way to work and value the time to catch up on pod casts. I would enjoy more time if needed.
  • eek said:

    I see Birmingham are closing 25 out of its 36 libraries to reduce costs

    Penny-wise and pound-foolish.

    If every there was a public good that was an investment in our future it was a public library.
    Unfortunately, Birmingham is in such a desperate financial situation as a result of its extreme pound-foolishness to date that it has no money left to be pound-wise or indeed penny-wise. And our council tax is rising by 21% over the next two years.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    algarkirk said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-68341244

    AG to appeal the Nottingham triple killing sentence. SFAICS it isn't actually appealable because of the agreement as to his mental state. One to watch with interest.

    Yes I was puzzled about whether the Attorney General knows the law or is just playing to the anti-woke crowd.
    You don’t have to be woke or unwoke to be disturbed by that sentence, given that it was later revealed that in a similar case, a mad murderer who “got better” was released after just a few years inside
  • eek said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    PB might be interested to find that the government has performed a dangerous u-turn on tax breaks for double cab pick-up trucks.

    These kinds of vehicles are responsible in the large increase in child road casualties in the US (estimates of around 8x more deadly in a collision, plus reduced visibility over high bonnets). More dangerous than XL Bullies, I'll wager.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/update-on-hmrc-double-cab-pick-up-guidance

    The difference is that in the US, they are used by every fool to go and buy a Starbucks.

    Double cab pickups are only used (to a high degree of confidence) in the U.K. by businesses which need to transport combinations of people and materials. Builders are the classic example.

    The difference is that in the US, culture and taxation encourages absurd vehicles.

    Interestingly, in the UK, their introduction led to a drop in injuries from the good old practise of piling people and tools together in the back of the Transit. An actual seat with crash protection, a seat belt and no piles of sharp heavy things is safer. Who knew?
    I suppose we can wait and see what happens.- it's true that this hasn't happened yet in the UK.

    Transits have much better visibility than pick-up trucks.

    There isnt the cult of the monster car, in the U.K. The urban SUV thing is people buying a shorter, higher vehicle to get the same space as an estate car in less length.

    No one buys a long cab for fun in the U.K.. They are van sized, but with more seats and reduced load space, compared to the same footprint.

    The reason for buying them is carrying more than 3 people. Unless you want to go back to vans with people squatting in the back?
    The transit double cab is an option. Much more secure and rain free space for putting stuff and far lower to the ground for the heavy things. Propa' builders have a double cab flat bed van for heavy stuff.

    I do think subsidising the double cab SUVs is a little perverse. They are less efficient, more dangerous and worse for carrying stuff. The positives, well, they have words like SPARTAN, WARRIOR & RANGER plastered on them. They'd paste a Yaris from a standing start. And my experience is they are driven by people who take the road wars seriously.
    There is a lived experience gap at play. I drove to town yesterday and on my 36 miles round-trip passed 10 or so of these trucks. All dirty. All with a top box. Several towing something.

    I know two local contractors who use them - both run their business from home (no, not a garage gym in their suburban semi). The ideal vehicle for their needs. The people saying "less efficient" are not the people using them. From a fuel perspective? Sure - 30mpg. But practically speaking? A vehicle which lets you do jobs and haul stuff and carry passengers?
    As I said before - people abuse the system so HMRC clamp down and people get caught in the cross fire.

    Given that you can still buy them up to 1st July and the final deadline is April 2028 - HMRC have been way more generous than they’ve ever been when I’ve been caught in the cross fire of an HMRC clampdown
    They have now scrapped completely the proposal to tax them like a car.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366
    edited February 20

    eek said:

    I see Birmingham are closing 25 out of its 36 libraries to reduce costs

    Penny-wise and pound-foolish.

    If every there was a public good that was an investment in our future it was a public library.
    Unfortunately, Birmingham is in such a desperate financial situation as a result of its extreme pound-foolishness to date that it has no money left to be pound-wise or indeed penny-wise. And our council tax is rising by 21% over the next two years.
    Birmingham’s problem is that they didn’t solve the obvious problems for nearly a decade hoping that it would all be magicked away.

    Locally we have a similar issue where the council claims not to have any money - they get upset when I point out that they froze council tax in 2010 and if they hadn’t their budget would now be 6% bigger.

    And the reality is that that 21% increase is where council tax should have been already
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    X

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    malcolmg said:

    148grss said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Isn't the answer to marginal tax woes quite simply to salary sacrifice more into your pension ?

    I mean the annual allowance is 60 grand a year !

    Yes, time and time again I get this advice, but with two kids, a mortgage and big bills to pay I need the money now.

    It's a choice between deferring near 100% for at least 15 years (and getting nothing now) and taking a 60% haircut, but getting 40% now.
    Maybe you should just live within your means - stop buying avocado toast and such. That's the advice that always seems to come to my generation when we complain about our income being shit. Bootstraps, pull them up by, etc.
    Green with envy, rather than going out and working hard like Casino you prefer to whine about people who work hard being better off than lazy barstewards like yourself.
    @Casino_Royale ’s only problem is that he lives down south so has a mortgage that is way bigger than the equivalent mortgage would be further north.
    And this is why I think the housing crisis is overstated. There is absolutely nothing stopping people from moving to Retford. Look at this bargain:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/120535733#/?channel=RES_BUY
    How many 100k jobs available near Retford? How many 100k jobs available in London? Wfh may change things (substantially?) but there absolutely is something stopping all the people on good household incomes in London and the other hotspots moving to somewhere more affordable. Jobs.
    The 06:51 gets you into KGX for 08:30:

    https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C28967/2024-02-27/detailed

    That property is only a 15 minute walk from the station. Plenty of people do similar journeys from Hampshire and Wiltshire. Here's what you get for a similar price in Salisbury which is a similar commute to London:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/137356181#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Okay, maybe there are more good jobs in Salisbury than Retford but plenty commute up to London.
    So its about a 4.5-5hr roundtrip commute to work each day when things go well. Works for some. For others life is too short.
    My daily fifteen minute round trip walking commute is one of the reasons I can work over 55 hours every week
    My commute takes me 14 seconds as I slither from my bed to the table with a can of iced coffee

    I still resent even that, slightly
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    If anybody wants me to describe the side-effects of a 3-5hr over100mile commute one way twice a week by train/bus/taxi over several years, including back pain, tooth loss, circulation problems, skin problems, insomnia, cold, pain, fear and a growing inner conviction that we should wipe out the entire species and restart with cats, I am more than happy to lecture you on the topic. Please form an orderly queue... :)
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366

    eek said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    PB might be interested to find that the government has performed a dangerous u-turn on tax breaks for double cab pick-up trucks.

    These kinds of vehicles are responsible in the large increase in child road casualties in the US (estimates of around 8x more deadly in a collision, plus reduced visibility over high bonnets). More dangerous than XL Bullies, I'll wager.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/update-on-hmrc-double-cab-pick-up-guidance

    The difference is that in the US, they are used by every fool to go and buy a Starbucks.

    Double cab pickups are only used (to a high degree of confidence) in the U.K. by businesses which need to transport combinations of people and materials. Builders are the classic example.

    The difference is that in the US, culture and taxation encourages absurd vehicles.

    Interestingly, in the UK, their introduction led to a drop in injuries from the good old practise of piling people and tools together in the back of the Transit. An actual seat with crash protection, a seat belt and no piles of sharp heavy things is safer. Who knew?
    I suppose we can wait and see what happens.- it's true that this hasn't happened yet in the UK.

    Transits have much better visibility than pick-up trucks.

    There isnt the cult of the monster car, in the U.K. The urban SUV thing is people buying a shorter, higher vehicle to get the same space as an estate car in less length.

    No one buys a long cab for fun in the U.K.. They are van sized, but with more seats and reduced load space, compared to the same footprint.

    The reason for buying them is carrying more than 3 people. Unless you want to go back to vans with people squatting in the back?
    The transit double cab is an option. Much more secure and rain free space for putting stuff and far lower to the ground for the heavy things. Propa' builders have a double cab flat bed van for heavy stuff.

    I do think subsidising the double cab SUVs is a little perverse. They are less efficient, more dangerous and worse for carrying stuff. The positives, well, they have words like SPARTAN, WARRIOR & RANGER plastered on them. They'd paste a Yaris from a standing start. And my experience is they are driven by people who take the road wars seriously.
    There is a lived experience gap at play. I drove to town yesterday and on my 36 miles round-trip passed 10 or so of these trucks. All dirty. All with a top box. Several towing something.

    I know two local contractors who use them - both run their business from home (no, not a garage gym in their suburban semi). The ideal vehicle for their needs. The people saying "less efficient" are not the people using them. From a fuel perspective? Sure - 30mpg. But practically speaking? A vehicle which lets you do jobs and haul stuff and carry passengers?
    As I said before - people abuse the system so HMRC clamp down and people get caught in the cross fire.

    Given that you can still buy them up to 1st July and the final deadline is April 2028 - HMRC have been way more generous than they’ve ever been when I’ve been caught in the cross fire of an HMRC clampdown
    They have now scrapped completely the proposal to tax them like a car.
    Which I pointed out 30 seconds later - it will come back because the damage those vehicles do to roads is serious see the calculations from earlier today
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    I think I may finally be bored of Phnom Penh. Time for Bangers

    Is Kuala Lumpur worth visiting?

    The Speccie world view seems tediously homogeneous. Great though that Tucker is curious about the exciting, undiscovered country of The Truth.


    If it’s so tediously homogenous why the fuck are you following the Spectator Twitter account?

    You’re a bit like @carnyx complaining that the daily mail, which he never reads, now has a frustrating paywall
    Pointing out the more egregious stupidities is quite helpful in letting us non-subscribers know what we're missing.
  • Surely there is a simple solution, a Conservative solution, to the Birmingham libraries issue.

    Close the libraries and burn the books. And don't forget to Vote Conservative.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    edited February 20

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    PB might be interested to find that the government has performed a dangerous u-turn on tax breaks for double cab pick-up trucks.

    These kinds of vehicles are responsible in the large increase in child road casualties in the US (estimates of around 8x more deadly in a collision, plus reduced visibility over high bonnets). More dangerous than XL Bullies, I'll wager.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/update-on-hmrc-double-cab-pick-up-guidance

    The difference is that in the US, they are used by every fool to go and buy a Starbucks.

    Double cab pickups are only used (to a high degree of confidence) in the U.K. by businesses which need to transport combinations of people and materials. Builders are the classic example.

    The difference is that in the US, culture and taxation encourages absurd vehicles.

    Interestingly, in the UK, their introduction led to a drop in injuries from the good old practise of piling people and tools together in the back of the Transit. An actual seat with crash protection, a seat belt and no piles of sharp heavy things is safer. Who knew?
    I suppose we can wait and see what happens.- it's true that this hasn't happened yet in the UK.

    Transits have much better visibility than pick-up trucks.

    There isnt the cult of the monster car, in the U.K. The urban SUV thing is people buying a shorter, higher vehicle to get the same space as an estate car in less length.

    No one buys a long cab for fun in the U.K.. They are van sized, but with more seats and reduced load space, compared to the same footprint.

    The reason for buying them is carrying more than 3 people. Unless you want to go back to vans with people squatting in the back?
    I'd suggest that the main reason for buying them is that they get a tax break worth between £3000 and £6000 per annum compared to something classified as a car, and make it easier to evade VAT on fuel used domestically. *

    In the justification for maintaining the tax break the Govt cited "farmers" and "the motor industry". The motor industry are invested in sales. "Farmers" can still get the tax breaks by reasonably registering it as a commercial via their business.

    The target is votes from people who benefit from the strange tax break.

    Personally I supported the measure before the cynical reverse-ferret because these vehicles are huge ( I have perhaps the longest estate car in the country, and a Ford Ranger CC is about 50cm longer), are less safe when driven, and are known to be more dangerous for pedestrians. **

    * https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/consumer/tax-hike-pick-ups-reversed-uk-government Autocar have switched their article. Screenshot from previous below
    ** https://etsc.eu/suvs-and-pickups-make-the-roads-less-safe-for-car-occupants-pedestrians-and-cyclists-belgian-study/

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    I think I may finally be bored of Phnom Penh. Time for Bangers

    Is Kuala Lumpur worth visiting?

    The Speccie world view seems tediously homogeneous. Great though that Tucker is curious about the exciting, undiscovered country of The Truth.


    If it’s so tediously homogenous why the fuck are you following the Spectator Twitter account?

    You’re a bit like @carnyx complaining that the daily mail, which he never reads, now has a frustrating paywall
    The idea that Tucker Carlson is curious about the truth is the most ridiculous claim for anyone that has watched his show. He is an extremely dogmatic ideologue.
    It's not ridiculous.
    You can be curious about something you know little about, and haven't spent much time pursuing.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited February 20

    This interview with David Cameron changed British politics forever | Political Currency podcast
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGCvjSpt5wk

    Three minutes of video. David Cameron told the BBC he'd stand down after 2015. This led to Boris leading the Brexiteers in order to replace him, according to George Osborne.

    Osborne is right when he says "So much of the power of a prime minister is the patronage they may bestow" (or something to that effect). That's why the amount of patronage they can bestow ought to be reduced.
  • Andy_JS said:

    By working about one and a half times full time hours I've managed to get my pay for the year up to around 37k, which I think is somewhere between median and mean full time salary in the UK. I pay about a third of what's left after tax on rent

    I spend much of my working day delivering Amazon packages, and letters from housing associations and the benefits office, to much bigger houses than mine where there's always someone in

    This is in Wiltshire IIRC.

    Yes, in Marlborough


  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    edited February 20
    AlsoLei said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Isn't the answer to marginal tax woes quite simply to salary sacrifice more into your pension ?

    I mean the annual allowance is 60 grand a year !

    Because it's another example of late-middle aged property owners hoarding all the goodies. If you're still to get on the ladder, what's the point of paying a vast amount into your pension if it leaves you with no ability to save for the deposit on a house?

    And, yes, we're talking about a small percentage of high earners, usually in London or the SE of England who are affected by this. But, believe me - they're really, really feeling it.

    And the recent news about Rishi's 23% effective tax rate only stirs them up further. The people who're affected are livid about it.
    "If you're still to get on the ladder, what's the point of paying a vast amount into your pension if it leaves you with no ability to save for the deposit on a house?"

    So you can afford the rent when you are pensioner?

    I'm saying this slightly flippantly, but maybe the new reality is the new reality and today's younger generation will rent all their lives.

    As Nick P sometimes reminds us: this happens on the continent.
  • Leon said:

    X

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    malcolmg said:

    148grss said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Isn't the answer to marginal tax woes quite simply to salary sacrifice more into your pension ?

    I mean the annual allowance is 60 grand a year !

    Yes, time and time again I get this advice, but with two kids, a mortgage and big bills to pay I need the money now.

    It's a choice between deferring near 100% for at least 15 years (and getting nothing now) and taking a 60% haircut, but getting 40% now.
    Maybe you should just live within your means - stop buying avocado toast and such. That's the advice that always seems to come to my generation when we complain about our income being shit. Bootstraps, pull them up by, etc.
    Green with envy, rather than going out and working hard like Casino you prefer to whine about people who work hard being better off than lazy barstewards like yourself.
    @Casino_Royale ’s only problem is that he lives down south so has a mortgage that is way bigger than the equivalent mortgage would be further north.
    And this is why I think the housing crisis is overstated. There is absolutely nothing stopping people from moving to Retford. Look at this bargain:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/120535733#/?channel=RES_BUY
    How many 100k jobs available near Retford? How many 100k jobs available in London? Wfh may change things (substantially?) but there absolutely is something stopping all the people on good household incomes in London and the other hotspots moving to somewhere more affordable. Jobs.
    The 06:51 gets you into KGX for 08:30:

    https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C28967/2024-02-27/detailed

    That property is only a 15 minute walk from the station. Plenty of people do similar journeys from Hampshire and Wiltshire. Here's what you get for a similar price in Salisbury which is a similar commute to London:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/137356181#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Okay, maybe there are more good jobs in Salisbury than Retford but plenty commute up to London.
    So its about a 4.5-5hr roundtrip commute to work each day when things go well. Works for some. For others life is too short.
    My daily fifteen minute round trip walking commute is one of the reasons I can work over 55 hours every week
    My commute takes me 14 seconds as I slither from my bed to the table with a can of iced coffee

    I still resent even that, slightly
    Isn't your "commute" more a metaphysical exercise than a logistical one?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    eek said:

    I see Birmingham are closing 25 out of its 36 libraries to reduce costs

    Penny-wise and pound-foolish.

    If every there was a public good that was an investment in our future it was a public library.
    One of the richest countries in the world cannot afford public libraries.

    What a pitiful low this generation of tories has brought us to.

    The election can't come soon enough.
    It does feel bleakly emblematic

    I’m pretty sure it’s not entirely the fault of the Tory government, but they are so unpopular they are gonna get saddled with all the bad news. I really do wonder if they might get wiped out entirely, a la Canadienne
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,742

    AlsoLei said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Isn't the answer to marginal tax woes quite simply to salary sacrifice more into your pension ?

    I mean the annual allowance is 60 grand a year !

    Because it's another example of late-middle aged property owners hoarding all the goodies. If you're still to get on the ladder, what's the point of paying a vast amount into your pension if it leaves you with no ability to save for the deposit on a house?

    And, yes, we're talking about a small percentage of high earners, usually in London or the SE of England who are affected by this. But, believe me - they're really, really feeling it.

    And the recent news about Rishi's 23% effective tax rate only stirs them up further. The people who're affected are livid about it.
    "If you're still to get on the ladder, what's the point of paying a vast amount into your pension if it leaves you with no ability to save for the deposit on a house?"

    So you can afford the rent when you are pensioner?

    I'm saying this slightly flippantly, but maybe the new reality is the new reality and today's younger generation will rent all their lives.

    As Nick P sometimes reminds us: this happens on the continent.
    And will be resented, leaving people without a physical stake in their community.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    Pretty soon the UK could have a centre-left government and the Netherlands one led by a far-right party. Who could have predicted that a few years ago?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    "what are the odds Biden will step down? I would have thought, maybe 20 -1 as it is not a scenario Democrats can canvass openly, or Republicans would find “helpful”. All a bit left field.

    Actually, available odds are 5-2. So says Paddy Power. I’m not reckless Rishi, so I bet only 100 quid."


    Joe Biden will not be the Democrat candidate in the US election 2024
    https://reaction.life/joe-biden-will-not-be-the-democrat-candidate-in-the-us-election/
  • FPT
    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    Selebian said:

    Off-topic, just seen that I got tagged as a lefty/Labour stooge a few days back. I've voted Lab at a GE once, out of six I've voted in. The same number of times I've voted Conservative in a GE. I will most likely make it 2/7 (for Lab, not Con!) at the next GE, but more a tactical than a conviction vote.

    The mistake CR makes (possibly, I haven't fully untangled whether CR started it) is that I'm 'woke', not particularly left. Where 'woke' is used as a synonym for socially liberal.

    Woke doesn't mean anything.

    How is being a vegan woke?
    Woke does mean something, just not the same to everyone. A bit like porn. How do you define porn? Different people get off on different things. Woke is different for different people.

    In general things described as woke are not bad in themselves, but there can be unintended consequences.

    For instance, you might decide that not enough women are involved in x industry. You might then start only recruiting women to make up the deficit. Is this fair? proportionate?
    You might be organising an event and insist on vegan only catering, to accommodate vegans, ignoring the fact that most people are not vegan and would prefer a choice.

    You might even get hung up on whether a woman can have a penis.
    Gonna stop you on the catering issue - I work in an office where about 25% of us are veggie or vegan. We had to stop ordering meat options because the meat eaters would eat the veggie / vegan options but we obviously couldn't eat the meaty options, so we were left hungry and we would have leftovers.

    Woke is just "political correctness gone mad" which is just "loony lefties" again. Got to remember the original "loony left" usage was to attack local councils who were advocating for, shock horror, treating queer people like human beings and, gasp, catering to ethnic minorities in their communities. It's always been the same thing - if you argue for equitable treatment of people typically considered the out groups, people who benefit from the inequitable treatment complain and try and make you out as a weirdo.
    On the food. Clearly if people are going hungry then a mistake has been made, but I don't think that means you have to order zero meat options. Surely there's a middle ground where there is a choice for those who might want to eat meat, but not so much that non-meat eaters are lefty without - though I'm speaking here as one of those omnivores who tends to avoid meat in a buffet situation, not knowing where it is from, or how long it has been waiting there.

    As to woke generally, there is a lot which is simply this generation's treating people with respect, but there is an element, perhaps a product of the way in which people get riled up online, of being uncompromising, impatient, and, ironically, rude about it.

    It's as though people forget that it might well be a new idea for other people, that it often takes people a while to get used to new ideas, and a bit of open-hearted patience and the benefit of the doubt can go a long way.

    Taking this back to the food example, if a 3:1 meat: no-meat order didn't work, why not try 1:1, or 1:3, before leaping straight away to no meat at all?
    I don't understand why the meat thing is such an issue. When catering at a work do having only veggie / vegan options allows for a typically cheaper option that has (in my experience at least) less waste (and of course the impact of waste is different for meat products and non-meat products), and also means the actual vegetarians and vegans get enough food, rather than having to share the stuff they can eat with people who will also eat stuff (and leave behind stuff) we can't eat. It's not exclusionary - no one is unable to eat non-meat options. Meat is not an essential - there is no right to meat in every food option. It was also agreed by everyone, meat eaters and not.
    It bloody is exclusionary and vile.

    Its not a choice all the meat eaters made, if it were they'd have had choices at the meals and could choose meat. You mean its a choice some people made, without regard for the concerns for others - or did you seek unanimity of absolutely everyone invited before you made that discriminatory call?

    Have a meat-free meal only for meat-eaters is as irresponsible as having a meat-only meal for vegetarians.
    “999. What’s your emergency?”

    “I’d like to report a crime against logic.”
    "I'm a snowflake petal gibbering at the very thought of not being given 2lb of raw meat at my departmental lunch."
    "I'm a snowflake petal gibbering at the very thought of not being given a vegetarian option at my departmental lunch."

    Either you believe in diversity or you don't. Either you believe in inclusion or you don't.

    If you are excluding vegetarians, or excluding meat eaters, you are being discriminatory and exclusionary. It is a disgraceful attitude in this day and age.

    People should be inclusionary and cater for all diets, or none at all.
    Show me someone who exclusively eats meat, and I'll ensure they are catered for.
    Good.

    I eat meat with every meal. Why should I be excluded from dining, any more than someone who never eats meat?

    If your concern is a lack of vegetarian options then order more vegetarian options, problem solved, don't reduce the meat options down to zero.

    Is that a philosophical belief? A religion? The Church of Gammon?
    Yes it is a philosophical belief, I am a carnivore and on a carnivore diet.

    Now are you going to respect my beliefs and my choice and treat them as equally as you would anyone else, or will you be a bigot and discriminatory?
    Wait.

    You only eat meat?
    I am on a carnivore ketogenic diet, yes.

    Have been since October 2023.

    Currently down 30lbs and in the best health I've been in years.
    And yet my NHS diet sheet (which reads like an advert for 1980s Weight Watchers) says you should be dead.

    Puzzling.
    Give it time.
    Well, that's a given.
    Humans are as adaptable as rats and can exist on many different diets, from the high fat diet of the Inuit to the vegan diet of Buddhist monks.

    Yes. But that's not what's on my diet sheet that was given to me after turning up with severe stress and anxiety. (Zero advice given for stress or anxiety apart from a hand-written note about an Indian mystic).

    It's 'eat refined carbs'. Don't eat nuts, eggs, or any other cheap readily available natural food. I explained that refined carbs make me very, very unwell.

    And I was told to just buy more Gaviscon as it was cheaper than paying for a prescription of the same thing via the NHS.

    I truly worry how many people are being given that sort of advice without double checking for themselves that it's dangerous nonsense.

    I mean, they're mostly poor people, so clearly count for less for both left and right. But personally it worries me.
    That's bonkers advice. I have never heard of a high refined carbohydrate diet recommended by my organisation.
    If only @foxy that were the case. The standard diet badly recommended by the NHS and institutions around the globe for too long is far too carb heavy.

    My diet is to have no more than 20g of carbs a day which I appreciate is extreme, but the NHS recommends males have 300g of carbs in a day in a "healthy" diet.

    Set aside meat which is typically but not always zero carb and just look at vegetables, that's the equivalent of one of eating:

    5 kg of bell peppers or broccoli in a day.
    30kg of spinach in a day.
    8.3kg of asparagus in a day.
    9kg mushrooms in a day.
    3.75kg of avocado in a day.

    300g (plus) of carbs is typically coming from potatoes, bread, rice or pasta etc not spinach, mushrooms etc.

    The advice is terrible and doesn't work. It's why we have so much obesity.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,643
    edited February 20
    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    PB might be interested to find that the government has performed a dangerous u-turn on tax breaks for double cab pick-up trucks.

    These kinds of vehicles are responsible in the large increase in child road casualties in the US (estimates of around 8x more deadly in a collision, plus reduced visibility over high bonnets). More dangerous than XL Bullies, I'll wager.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/update-on-hmrc-double-cab-pick-up-guidance

    The difference is that in the US, they are used by every fool to go and buy a Starbucks.

    Double cab pickups are only used (to a high degree of confidence) in the U.K. by businesses which need to transport combinations of people and materials. Builders are the classic example.

    The difference is that in the US, culture and taxation encourages absurd vehicles.

    Interestingly, in the UK, their introduction led to a drop in injuries from the good old practise of piling people and tools together in the back of the Transit. An actual seat with crash protection, a seat belt and no piles of sharp heavy things is safer. Who knew?
    I suppose we can wait and see what happens.- it's true that this hasn't happened yet in the UK.

    Transits have much better visibility than pick-up trucks.

    There isnt the cult of the monster car, in the U.K. The urban SUV thing is people buying a shorter, higher vehicle to get the same space as an estate car in less length.

    No one buys a long cab for fun in the U.K.. They are van sized, but with more seats and reduced load space, compared to the same footprint.

    The reason for buying them is carrying more than 3 people. Unless you want to go back to vans with people squatting in the back?
    I'd suggest that the main reason for buying them is that they get a tax break worth between £3000 and £6000 per annum compared to something classified as a car, and make it easier to evade VAT on fuel used domestically. *

    In the justification for maintaining the tax break the Govt cited "farmers" and "the motor industry". The motor industry are invested in sales. "Farmers" can still get the tax breaks by reasonably registering it as a commercial via their business.

    The target is votes from people who benefit from the strange tax break.

    Personally I supported the measure before the cynical reverse-ferret because these vehicles are huge ( I have perhaps the longest estate car in the country, and a Ford Ranger CC is about 50cm longer), are less safe when driven, and are known to be more dangerous for pedestrians. **

    * https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/consumer/tax-hike-pick-ups-reversed-uk-government Autocar have switched their article. Screenshot from previous below
    ** https://etsc.eu/suvs-and-pickups-make-the-roads-less-safe-for-car-occupants-pedestrians-and-cyclists-belgian-study/

    The obvious point is that a double cab means it is less effective for things like farming, and much more effective for the school run.

    Not looking forward to the consternation in 10 years time when casualties are through the roof.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    I like this take on the latest by-election news.

    https://x.com/estwebber/status/1759898029568512428?s=20

    As she says, the Ship of Theseus / Trigger's Broom approach to general elections.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    eek said:

    I see Birmingham are closing 25 out of its 36 libraries to reduce costs

    Penny-wise and pound-foolish.

    If every there was a public good that was an investment in our future it was a public library.
    One of the richest countries in the world cannot afford public libraries.

    What a pitiful low this generation of tories has brought us to.

    The election can't come soon enough.
    It does raise the question of how 'rich' we actually are now.
    We don't manufacture much, have massive natural resources, or the considerable holdings of foreign assets which we used to.

    It's been an article of faith for the last couple of decades that we are, and therefore increasing spending on x,y or z can be contemplated without concern, but that belief is going to be seriously tested after the next election.

    Liz Truss demonstrated that our credit with the capital markets is not unlimited. Just what those limits might be for a half way competent government is an interesting question.

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    edited February 20

    algarkirk said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-68341244

    AG to appeal the Nottingham triple killing sentence. SFAICS it isn't actually appealable because of the agreement as to his mental state. One to watch with interest.

    Its clearly the process/law that it is at fault, as was explained by PB lawyers at the time. I think the questions are how correct was the diagnosis, why did it take so long to have him seen by psychologists, and were the families mislead/not kept informed during the process.

    As it stands the sentence is correct based on the verdict.

    Personally I think the law is at fault. He was convicted of attempted murder of three people, but only of manslaughter of the three he managed to kill because reasons. Its the attempted murder conviction I don't understand - why doesn't the same situation apply to that? Attempted manslaughter?

    (You can tell I am not a lawyer...)
    1) The Court of Appeal can't have a direct interest in how systems failed so as to get to the point where he is on the street and the homicides could occur. That's no part of the criminal system, nor could it be.

    2) The question of what to do with people who commit homicides and other serious offences while being massively and dangerously mentally ill is a very hard question in itself, and need to be under regular review. The Court of Appeal can comment but can't change it.

    3) The Court of Appeal will have to consider sentencing under the law as it stands.

    4) Attempted manslaughter is not used for failed homicide attempts because the statute which brought in manslaughter in place of murder for diminished responsibility does not extend to attempts. (There are historic reasons relating to the death penalty for this. It isn't supposed t make sense).

    5) The Court of Appeal can't go back in time and say it should have been murder really.

    6) If he ended up in the prison system he would be moved to a secure hospital within days. So nothing much would change. he isn't coming out.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603

    "what are the odds Biden will step down? I would have thought, maybe 20 -1 as it is not a scenario Democrats can canvass openly, or Republicans would find “helpful”. All a bit left field.

    Actually, available odds are 5-2. So says Paddy Power. I’m not reckless Rishi, so I bet only 100 quid."


    Joe Biden will not be the Democrat candidate in the US election 2024
    https://reaction.life/joe-biden-will-not-be-the-democrat-candidate-in-the-us-election/

    This seems like wishful thinking, and he immediately contradicts himself by excluding Kamala Harris.

    The justification for selecting Biden in 2020 – that he was the only candidate who could beat Trump (probably true) – will not only ring hollow but will seem fantastical by summer 2024.

    The tables have turned. Biden has now become the only Democrat who Trump can beat. Except the hapless Vice President, “I’m ready to serve” Kamala Harris.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,368
    edited February 20
    algarkirk said:
    It will be even worse when George Monbiot and Polly Toynbee's incisive commentary is behind a paywall.

    The struggle is real.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    FPT

    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    Selebian said:

    Off-topic, just seen that I got tagged as a lefty/Labour stooge a few days back. I've voted Lab at a GE once, out of six I've voted in. The same number of times I've voted Conservative in a GE. I will most likely make it 2/7 (for Lab, not Con!) at the next GE, but more a tactical than a conviction vote.

    The mistake CR makes (possibly, I haven't fully untangled whether CR started it) is that I'm 'woke', not particularly left. Where 'woke' is used as a synonym for socially liberal.

    Woke doesn't mean anything.

    How is being a vegan woke?
    Woke does mean something, just not the same to everyone. A bit like porn. How do you define porn? Different people get off on different things. Woke is different for different people.

    In general things described as woke are not bad in themselves, but there can be unintended consequences.

    For instance, you might decide that not enough women are involved in x industry. You might then start only recruiting women to make up the deficit. Is this fair? proportionate?
    You might be organising an event and insist on vegan only catering, to accommodate vegans, ignoring the fact that most people are not vegan and would prefer a choice.

    You might even get hung up on whether a woman can have a penis.
    Gonna stop you on the catering issue - I work in an office where about 25% of us are veggie or vegan. We had to stop ordering meat options because the meat eaters would eat the veggie / vegan options but we obviously couldn't eat the meaty options, so we were left hungry and we would have leftovers.

    Woke is just "political correctness gone mad" which is just "loony lefties" again. Got to remember the original "loony left" usage was to attack local councils who were advocating for, shock horror, treating queer people like human beings and, gasp, catering to ethnic minorities in their communities. It's always been the same thing - if you argue for equitable treatment of people typically considered the out groups, people who benefit from the inequitable treatment complain and try and make you out as a weirdo.
    On the food. Clearly if people are going hungry then a mistake has been made, but I don't think that means you have to order zero meat options. Surely there's a middle ground where there is a choice for those who might want to eat meat, but not so much that non-meat eaters are lefty without - though I'm speaking here as one of those omnivores who tends to avoid meat in a buffet situation, not knowing where it is from, or how long it has been waiting there.

    As to woke generally, there is a lot which is simply this generation's treating people with respect, but there is an element, perhaps a product of the way in which people get riled up online, of being uncompromising, impatient, and, ironically, rude about it.

    It's as though people forget that it might well be a new idea for other people, that it often takes people a while to get used to new ideas, and a bit of open-hearted patience and the benefit of the doubt can go a long way.

    Taking this back to the food example, if a 3:1 meat: no-meat order didn't work, why not try 1:1, or 1:3, before leaping straight away to no meat at all?
    I don't understand why the meat thing is such an issue. When catering at a work do having only veggie / vegan options allows for a typically cheaper option that has (in my experience at least) less waste (and of course the impact of waste is different for meat products and non-meat products), and also means the actual vegetarians and vegans get enough food, rather than having to share the stuff they can eat with people who will also eat stuff (and leave behind stuff) we can't eat. It's not exclusionary - no one is unable to eat non-meat options. Meat is not an essential - there is no right to meat in every food option. It was also agreed by everyone, meat eaters and not.
    It bloody is exclusionary and vile.

    Its not a choice all the meat eaters made, if it were they'd have had choices at the meals and could choose meat. You mean its a choice some people made, without regard for the concerns for others - or did you seek unanimity of absolutely everyone invited before you made that discriminatory call?

    Have a meat-free meal only for meat-eaters is as irresponsible as having a meat-only meal for vegetarians.
    “999. What’s your emergency?”

    “I’d like to report a crime against logic.”
    "I'm a snowflake petal gibbering at the very thought of not being given 2lb of raw meat at my departmental lunch."
    "I'm a snowflake petal gibbering at the very thought of not being given a vegetarian option at my departmental lunch."

    Either you believe in diversity or you don't. Either you believe in inclusion or you don't.

    If you are excluding vegetarians, or excluding meat eaters, you are being discriminatory and exclusionary. It is a disgraceful attitude in this day and age.

    People should be inclusionary and cater for all diets, or none at all.
    Show me someone who exclusively eats meat, and I'll ensure they are catered for.
    Good.

    I eat meat with every meal. Why should I be excluded from dining, any more than someone who never eats meat?

    If your concern is a lack of vegetarian options then order more vegetarian options, problem solved, don't reduce the meat options down to zero.

    Is that a philosophical belief? A religion? The Church of Gammon?
    Yes it is a philosophical belief, I am a carnivore and on a carnivore diet.

    Now are you going to respect my beliefs and my choice and treat them as equally as you would anyone else, or will you be a bigot and discriminatory?
    Wait.

    You only eat meat?
    I am on a carnivore ketogenic diet, yes.

    Have been since October 2023.

    Currently down 30lbs and in the best health I've been in years.
    And yet my NHS diet sheet (which reads like an advert for 1980s Weight Watchers) says you should be dead.

    Puzzling.
    Give it time.
    Well, that's a given.
    Humans are as adaptable as rats and can exist on many different diets, from the high fat diet of the Inuit to the vegan diet of Buddhist monks.

    Yes. But that's not what's on my diet sheet that was given to me after turning up with severe stress and anxiety. (Zero advice given for stress or anxiety apart from a hand-written note about an Indian mystic).

    It's 'eat refined carbs'. Don't eat nuts, eggs, or any other cheap readily available natural food. I explained that refined carbs make me very, very unwell.

    And I was told to just buy more Gaviscon as it was cheaper than paying for a prescription of the same thing via the NHS.

    I truly worry how many people are being given that sort of advice without double checking for themselves that it's dangerous nonsense.

    I mean, they're mostly poor people, so clearly count for less for both left and right. But personally it worries me.
    That's bonkers advice. I have never heard of a high refined carbohydrate diet recommended by my organisation.
    If only @foxy that were the case. The standard diet badly recommended by the NHS and institutions around the globe for too long is far too carb heavy.

    My diet is to have no more than 20g of carbs a day which I appreciate is extreme, but the NHS recommends males have 300g of carbs in a day in a "healthy" diet.

    Set aside meat which is typically but not always zero carb and just look at vegetables, that's the equivalent of one of eating:

    5 kg of bell peppers or broccoli in a day.
    30kg of spinach in a day.
    8.3kg of asparagus in a day.
    9kg mushrooms in a day.
    3.75kg of avocado in a day.

    300g (plus) of carbs is typically coming from potatoes, bread, rice or pasta etc not spinach, mushrooms etc.

    The advice is terrible and doesn't work. It's why we have so much obesity.
    It depends how you get the carbs - though of course for most people in the UK that's very likely to be processed food. Which is unhealthy.

    Some very high carbohydrate diets are associated with extreme longevity.

    https://www.intake.health/post/high-carb-diet-the-surprising-case-for-optimal-health
    ..Known for finding healthy, long-lived enclaves throughout the world, the Blue Zones project has studied the diets of these healthy communities.

    One food group common to all of these healthy communities is beans.

    From Costa Rica to Okinawa, the healthiest beans are a major part of their diets and are carbohydrate-rich foods. Often, 50-75% of their calorie content are carbohydrates.

    And the women of Okinawa are the some longest lived in the world. The majority of their calories come from purple and orange sweet potatoes. Potatoes can by over 90% carbohydrates, rendering a very high carb diet.

    Ikarians in Greece often eat whole-grain sourdough bread alongside vegetable-rich meals.
    In fact, in these healthy regions, the majority of calories tend to come from vegetables. The Seventh Day Adventists from Loma Linda, California live, on average, a full decade longer than the average American. Some eat fish. Many are vegetarians...
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,782
    Leon said:

    X

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    malcolmg said:

    148grss said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Isn't the answer to marginal tax woes quite simply to salary sacrifice more into your pension ?

    I mean the annual allowance is 60 grand a year !

    Yes, time and time again I get this advice, but with two kids, a mortgage and big bills to pay I need the money now.

    It's a choice between deferring near 100% for at least 15 years (and getting nothing now) and taking a 60% haircut, but getting 40% now.
    Maybe you should just live within your means - stop buying avocado toast and such. That's the advice that always seems to come to my generation when we complain about our income being shit. Bootstraps, pull them up by, etc.
    Green with envy, rather than going out and working hard like Casino you prefer to whine about people who work hard being better off than lazy barstewards like yourself.
    @Casino_Royale ’s only problem is that he lives down south so has a mortgage that is way bigger than the equivalent mortgage would be further north.
    And this is why I think the housing crisis is overstated. There is absolutely nothing stopping people from moving to Retford. Look at this bargain:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/120535733#/?channel=RES_BUY
    How many 100k jobs available near Retford? How many 100k jobs available in London? Wfh may change things (substantially?) but there absolutely is something stopping all the people on good household incomes in London and the other hotspots moving to somewhere more affordable. Jobs.
    The 06:51 gets you into KGX for 08:30:

    https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C28967/2024-02-27/detailed

    That property is only a 15 minute walk from the station. Plenty of people do similar journeys from Hampshire and Wiltshire. Here's what you get for a similar price in Salisbury which is a similar commute to London:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/137356181#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Okay, maybe there are more good jobs in Salisbury than Retford but plenty commute up to London.
    So its about a 4.5-5hr roundtrip commute to work each day when things go well. Works for some. For others life is too short.
    My daily fifteen minute round trip walking commute is one of the reasons I can work over 55 hours every week
    My commute takes me 14 seconds as I slither from my bed to the table with a can of iced coffee

    I still resent even that, slightly
    So was mine for decades and that was before zoom calls so I might well have been at work in my dressing gown while breaking in my ski boots. No wonder I had dreams of attending meetings naked.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    Selebian said:

    Off-topic, just seen that I got tagged as a lefty/Labour stooge a few days back. I've voted Lab at a GE once, out of six I've voted in. The same number of times I've voted Conservative in a GE. I will most likely make it 2/7 (for Lab, not Con!) at the next GE, but more a tactical than a conviction vote.

    The mistake CR makes (possibly, I haven't fully untangled whether CR started it) is that I'm 'woke', not particularly left. Where 'woke' is used as a synonym for socially liberal.

    Woke doesn't mean anything.

    How is being a vegan woke?
    Woke does mean something, just not the same to everyone. A bit like porn. How do you define porn? Different people get off on different things. Woke is different for different people.

    In general things described as woke are not bad in themselves, but there can be unintended consequences.

    For instance, you might decide that not enough women are involved in x industry. You might then start only recruiting women to make up the deficit. Is this fair? proportionate?
    You might be organising an event and insist on vegan only catering, to accommodate vegans, ignoring the fact that most people are not vegan and would prefer a choice.

    You might even get hung up on whether a woman can have a penis.
    Gonna stop you on the catering issue - I work in an office where about 25% of us are veggie or vegan. We had to stop ordering meat options because the meat eaters would eat the veggie / vegan options but we obviously couldn't eat the meaty options, so we were left hungry and we would have leftovers.

    Woke is just "political correctness gone mad" which is just "loony lefties" again. Got to remember the original "loony left" usage was to attack local councils who were advocating for, shock horror, treating queer people like human beings and, gasp, catering to ethnic minorities in their communities. It's always been the same thing - if you argue for equitable treatment of people typically considered the out groups, people who benefit from the inequitable treatment complain and try and make you out as a weirdo.
    On the food. Clearly if people are going hungry then a mistake has been made, but I don't think that means you have to order zero meat options. Surely there's a middle ground where there is a choice for those who might want to eat meat, but not so much that non-meat eaters are lefty without - though I'm speaking here as one of those omnivores who tends to avoid meat in a buffet situation, not knowing where it is from, or how long it has been waiting there.

    As to woke generally, there is a lot which is simply this generation's treating people with respect, but there is an element, perhaps a product of the way in which people get riled up online, of being uncompromising, impatient, and, ironically, rude about it.

    It's as though people forget that it might well be a new idea for other people, that it often takes people a while to get used to new ideas, and a bit of open-hearted patience and the benefit of the doubt can go a long way.

    Taking this back to the food example, if a 3:1 meat: no-meat order didn't work, why not try 1:1, or 1:3, before leaping straight away to no meat at all?
    I don't understand why the meat thing is such an issue. When catering at a work do having only veggie / vegan options allows for a typically cheaper option that has (in my experience at least) less waste (and of course the impact of waste is different for meat products and non-meat products), and also means the actual vegetarians and vegans get enough food, rather than having to share the stuff they can eat with people who will also eat stuff (and leave behind stuff) we can't eat. It's not exclusionary - no one is unable to eat non-meat options. Meat is not an essential - there is no right to meat in every food option. It was also agreed by everyone, meat eaters and not.
    It bloody is exclusionary and vile.

    Its not a choice all the meat eaters made, if it were they'd have had choices at the meals and could choose meat. You mean its a choice some people made, without regard for the concerns for others - or did you seek unanimity of absolutely everyone invited before you made that discriminatory call?

    Have a meat-free meal only for meat-eaters is as irresponsible as having a meat-only meal for vegetarians.
    “999. What’s your emergency?”

    “I’d like to report a crime against logic.”
    "I'm a snowflake petal gibbering at the very thought of not being given 2lb of raw meat at my departmental lunch."
    "I'm a snowflake petal gibbering at the very thought of not being given a vegetarian option at my departmental lunch."

    Either you believe in diversity or you don't. Either you believe in inclusion or you don't.

    If you are excluding vegetarians, or excluding meat eaters, you are being discriminatory and exclusionary. It is a disgraceful attitude in this day and age.

    People should be inclusionary and cater for all diets, or none at all.
    Show me someone who exclusively eats meat, and I'll ensure they are catered for.
    Good.

    I eat meat with every meal. Why should I be excluded from dining, any more than someone who never eats meat?

    If your concern is a lack of vegetarian options then order more vegetarian options, problem solved, don't reduce the meat options down to zero.

    Is that a philosophical belief? A religion? The Church of Gammon?
    Yes it is a philosophical belief, I am a carnivore and on a carnivore diet.

    Now are you going to respect my beliefs and my choice and treat them as equally as you would anyone else, or will you be a bigot and discriminatory?
    Wait.

    You only eat meat?
    I am on a carnivore ketogenic diet, yes.

    Have been since October 2023.

    Currently down 30lbs and in the best health I've been in years.
    And yet my NHS diet sheet (which reads like an advert for 1980s Weight Watchers) says you should be dead.

    Puzzling.
    Give it time.
    Well, that's a given.
    Humans are as adaptable as rats and can exist on many different diets, from the high fat diet of the Inuit to the vegan diet of Buddhist monks.

    Yes. But that's not what's on my diet sheet that was given to me after turning up with severe stress and anxiety. (Zero advice given for stress or anxiety apart from a hand-written note about an Indian mystic).

    It's 'eat refined carbs'. Don't eat nuts, eggs, or any other cheap readily available natural food. I explained that refined carbs make me very, very unwell.

    And I was told to just buy more Gaviscon as it was cheaper than paying for a prescription of the same thing via the NHS.

    I truly worry how many people are being given that sort of advice without double checking for themselves that it's dangerous nonsense.

    I mean, they're mostly poor people, so clearly count for less for both left and right. But personally it worries me.
    That's bonkers advice. I have never heard of a high refined carbohydrate diet recommended by my organisation.
    If only @foxy that were the case. The standard diet badly recommended by the NHS and institutions around the globe for too long is far too carb heavy.

    My diet is to have no more than 20g of carbs a day which I appreciate is extreme, but the NHS recommends males have 300g of carbs in a day in a "healthy" diet.

    Set aside meat which is typically but not always zero carb and just look at vegetables, that's the equivalent of one of eating:

    5 kg of bell peppers or broccoli in a day.
    30kg of spinach in a day.
    8.3kg of asparagus in a day.
    9kg mushrooms in a day.
    3.75kg of avocado in a day.

    300g (plus) of carbs is typically coming from potatoes, bread, rice or pasta etc not spinach, mushrooms etc.

    The advice is terrible and doesn't work. It's why we have so much obesity.
    It depends how you get the carbs - though of course for most people in the UK that's very likely to be processed food. Which is unhealthy.

    Some very high carbohydrate diets are associated with extreme longevity.

    https://www.intake.health/post/high-carb-diet-the-surprising-case-for-optimal-health
    ..Known for finding healthy, long-lived enclaves throughout the world, the Blue Zones project has studied the diets of these healthy communities.

    One food group common to all of these healthy communities is beans.

    From Costa Rica to Okinawa, the healthiest beans are a major part of their diets and are carbohydrate-rich foods. Often, 50-75% of their calorie content are carbohydrates.

    And the women of Okinawa are the some longest lived in the world. The majority of their calories come from purple and orange sweet potatoes. Potatoes can by over 90% carbohydrates, rendering a very high carb diet.

    Ikarians in Greece often eat whole-grain sourdough bread alongside vegetable-rich meals.
    In fact, in these healthy regions, the majority of calories tend to come from vegetables. The Seventh Day Adventists from Loma Linda, California live, on average, a full decade longer than the average American. Some eat fish. Many are vegetarians...
    Beans, beans are good for your heart.
  • Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-68341244

    AG to appeal the Nottingham triple killing sentence. SFAICS it isn't actually appealable because of the agreement as to his mental state. One to watch with interest.

    Yes I was puzzled about whether the Attorney General knows the law or is just playing to the anti-woke crowd.
    You don’t have to be woke or unwoke to be disturbed by that sentence, given that it was later revealed that in a similar case, a mad murderer who “got better” was released after just a few years inside
    Prison social media inclines to the view he will be worse off in a secure hospital and many prisoners who feign mental illness are soon disillusioned and return to prison. Complete lack of privacy and forced to take drugs, with no possibility of parole.

    But in any case, it is not the sentence people are complaining about but the verdict. At issue is the word murder. He was found not guilty of murder and guilty of manslaughter. That's what sticks in the craw. What we need is a new verdict of murder even though nutty as a fruitcake, and then life in a secure hospital.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    I think I may finally be bored of Phnom Penh. Time for Bangers

    Is Kuala Lumpur worth visiting?

    The Speccie world view seems tediously homogeneous. Great though that Tucker is curious about the exciting, undiscovered country of The Truth.


    If it’s so tediously homogenous why the fuck are you following the Spectator Twitter account?

    You’re a bit like @carnyx complaining that the daily mail, which he never reads, now has a frustrating paywall
    Pointing out the more egregious stupidities is quite helpful in letting us non-subscribers know what we're missing.
    Indeed. And (believe it or not) the reason for my complaining about the paywall was that PB had praised Mr Johnson to the skies as a stylist and writer, so I went off to have a look and (if appropriate) some self-improvement. But no.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,368
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    I see Birmingham are closing 25 out of its 36 libraries to reduce costs

    Penny-wise and pound-foolish.

    If every there was a public good that was an investment in our future it was a public library.
    One of the richest countries in the world cannot afford public libraries.

    What a pitiful low this generation of tories has brought us to.

    The election can't come soon enough.
    It does feel bleakly emblematic

    I’m pretty sure it’s not entirely the fault of the Tory government, but they are so unpopular they are gonna get saddled with all the bad news. I really do wonder if they might get wiped out entirely, a la Canadienne
    As has been discussed here before, the problems with some local govt is down to inept management by previous administrations. They tend to all get lumped in with the ones who are suffering from other issues related to the grant.

    Nottingham City and Brum being two examples.

    Brum is facing a massive equal pay claim it cannot afford. Has an IT project they have massively overspent on as well as other things. Money spunked on the Commonwealth games, how has that worked out ?

    But, yeah, it's all down to the govt.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    edited February 20
    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    PB might be interested to find that the government has performed a dangerous u-turn on tax breaks for double cab pick-up trucks.

    These kinds of vehicles are responsible in the large increase in child road casualties in the US (estimates of around 8x more deadly in a collision, plus reduced visibility over high bonnets). More dangerous than XL Bullies, I'll wager.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/update-on-hmrc-double-cab-pick-up-guidance

    The difference is that in the US, they are used by every fool to go and buy a Starbucks.

    Double cab pickups are only used (to a high degree of confidence) in the U.K. by businesses which need to transport combinations of people and materials. Builders are the classic example.

    The difference is that in the US, culture and taxation encourages absurd vehicles.

    Interestingly, in the UK, their introduction led to a drop in injuries from the good old practise of piling people and tools together in the back of the Transit. An actual seat with crash protection, a seat belt and no piles of sharp heavy things is safer. Who knew?
    I suppose we can wait and see what happens.- it's true that this hasn't happened yet in the UK.

    Transits have much better visibility than pick-up trucks.

    There isnt the cult of the monster car, in the U.K. The urban SUV thing is people buying a shorter, higher vehicle to get the same space as an estate car in less length.

    No one buys a long cab for fun in the U.K.. They are van sized, but with more seats and reduced load space, compared to the same footprint.

    The reason for buying them is carrying more than 3 people. Unless you want to go back to vans with people squatting in the back?
    I'd suggest that the main reason for buying them is that they get a tax break worth between £3000 and £6000 per annum compared to something classified as a car, and make it easier to evade VAT on fuel used domestically. *

    In the justification for maintaining the tax break the Govt cited "farmers" and "the motor industry". The motor industry are invested in sales. "Farmers" can still get the tax breaks by reasonably registering it as a commercial via their business.

    The target is votes from people who benefit from the strange tax break.

    Personally I supported the measure before the cynical reverse-ferret because these vehicles are huge ( I have perhaps the longest estate car in the country, and a Ford Ranger CC is about 50cm longer), are less safe when driven, and are known to be more dangerous for pedestrians. **

    * https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/consumer/tax-hike-pick-ups-reversed-uk-government Autocar have switched their article. Screenshot from previous below
    ** https://etsc.eu/suvs-and-pickups-make-the-roads-less-safe-for-car-occupants-pedestrians-and-cyclists-belgian-study/

    The obvious point is that a double cab means it is less effective for things like farming, and much more effective for the school run.

    Not looking forward to the consternation in 10 years time when casualties are through the roof.
    For contractor or business types needing to carry workforce, there are now mid-size vans available with two rows of seats (eg Ford Transit Connect or Vauxhall Vivaro) which are 0.5m - 1m shorter, so fit in a parking space, are cheaper to buy, more economical, and better load carriers. *

    But when you give someone a 3k - 5k a year tax break to buy something bigger, more expensive, less efficient and less effective, rational decisions are distorted. Smaller crew cab pickups will still be classified as "cars", so it's the huge ones that are incentivised.

    * interestingly these are now also common choices for eg wheelchair users.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited February 20
    algarkirk said:
    This article is so out of touch. Difficult life on £60k a year? What about the other 90%.

    https://moneysprout.co.uk/what-percentage-of-the-uk-earns-over-60k
    "The latest UK data shows that earning over £60k per year puts you in the top 10% of earners in the country. This is the equivalent to the 90th percentile. If you are earning more than £60k per year you are making more than 90% of the working population."
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,814

    "what are the odds Biden will step down? I would have thought, maybe 20 -1 as it is not a scenario Democrats can canvass openly, or Republicans would find “helpful”. All a bit left field.

    Actually, available odds are 5-2. So says Paddy Power. I’m not reckless Rishi, so I bet only 100 quid."


    Joe Biden will not be the Democrat candidate in the US election 2024
    https://reaction.life/joe-biden-will-not-be-the-democrat-candidate-in-the-us-election/

    This seems like wishful thinking, and he immediately contradicts himself by excluding Kamala Harris.

    The justification for selecting Biden in 2020 – that he was the only candidate who could beat Trump (probably true) – will not only ring hollow but will seem fantastical by summer 2024.

    The tables have turned. Biden has now become the only Democrat who Trump can beat. Except the hapless Vice President, “I’m ready to serve” Kamala Harris.
    It is completely at odds with all the polling. Most recently:

    Biden 44 Trump 45
    Harris 43 Trump 46
    Whitmer 33 Trump 45
    Newson 36 Trump 46

    Now such polling is not particularly accurate but if Biden were clearly the worst candidate in terms of electability as the author claims, this is not what the data shows at all. It is rare to find any polls where Biden is doing worse vs Trump than another named Democrat.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    I see Birmingham are closing 25 out of its 36 libraries to reduce costs

    Penny-wise and pound-foolish.

    If every there was a public good that was an investment in our future it was a public library.
    One of the richest countries in the world cannot afford public libraries.

    What a pitiful low this generation of tories has brought us to.

    The election can't come soon enough.
    It does feel bleakly emblematic

    I’m pretty sure it’s not entirely the fault of the Tory government, but they are so unpopular they are gonna get saddled with all the bad news. I really do wonder if they might get wiped out entirely, a la Canadienne
    They are I think being fitted up to be a national scapegoat. In the positive, old testament sense of the word. We load everything that's wrong with the country on their shoulders, whether truly their fault or not (this is why any devious plans they had to weaponise the PO scandal against Davey or small boats against Keir were never going to work), and off they wander into the electoral desert to starve. The community can then make a new start and approach old problems with fresh energy.

    That's one of the reasons democracy works. It's also one of the reasons authoritarian regimes with occasional turnover of leaders get the chance for a reboot - notably China after Mao and the Soviet union after Stalin.
    You won’t agree, but this is also: why brexit

    We no longer have anyone to blame for our woes but ourselves. We can’t blame ‘Brussels’ or the ‘eurocrats’ or ‘the unelected commission’

    Our problems are ours to fix, and we have the democratic means to do so. By dumping the government with great venom.The annihilation of the party that delivered brexit is itself a vindication of their singular, unpopular achievement: Brexit

    What a magnificent irony
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,643
    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    Selebian said:

    Off-topic, just seen that I got tagged as a lefty/Labour stooge a few days back. I've voted Lab at a GE once, out of six I've voted in. The same number of times I've voted Conservative in a GE. I will most likely make it 2/7 (for Lab, not Con!) at the next GE, but more a tactical than a conviction vote.

    The mistake CR makes (possibly, I haven't fully untangled whether CR started it) is that I'm 'woke', not particularly left. Where 'woke' is used as a synonym for socially liberal.

    Woke doesn't mean anything.

    How is being a vegan woke?
    Woke does mean something, just not the same to everyone. A bit like porn. How do you define porn? Different people get off on different things. Woke is different for different people.

    In general things described as woke are not bad in themselves, but there can be unintended consequences.

    For instance, you might decide that not enough women are involved in x industry. You might then start only recruiting women to make up the deficit. Is this fair? proportionate?
    You might be organising an event and insist on vegan only catering, to accommodate vegans, ignoring the fact that most people are not vegan and would prefer a choice.

    You might even get hung up on whether a woman can have a penis.
    Gonna stop you on the catering issue - I work in an office where about 25% of us are veggie or vegan. We had to stop ordering meat options because the meat eaters would eat the veggie / vegan options but we obviously couldn't eat the meaty options, so we were left hungry and we would have leftovers.

    Woke is just "political correctness gone mad" which is just "loony lefties" again. Got to remember the original "loony left" usage was to attack local councils who were advocating for, shock horror, treating queer people like human beings and, gasp, catering to ethnic minorities in their communities. It's always been the same thing - if you argue for equitable treatment of people typically considered the out groups, people who benefit from the inequitable treatment complain and try and make you out as a weirdo.
    On the food. Clearly if people are going hungry then a mistake has been made, but I don't think that means you have to order zero meat options. Surely there's a middle ground where there is a choice for those who might want to eat meat, but not so much that non-meat eaters are lefty without - though I'm speaking here as one of those omnivores who tends to avoid meat in a buffet situation, not knowing where it is from, or how long it has been waiting there.

    As to woke generally, there is a lot which is simply this generation's treating people with respect, but there is an element, perhaps a product of the way in which people get riled up online, of being uncompromising, impatient, and, ironically, rude about it.

    It's as though people forget that it might well be a new idea for other people, that it often takes people a while to get used to new ideas, and a bit of open-hearted patience and the benefit of the doubt can go a long way.

    Taking this back to the food example, if a 3:1 meat: no-meat order didn't work, why not try 1:1, or 1:3, before leaping straight away to no meat at all?
    I don't understand why the meat thing is such an issue. When catering at a work do having only veggie / vegan options allows for a typically cheaper option that has (in my experience at least) less waste (and of course the impact of waste is different for meat products and non-meat products), and also means the actual vegetarians and vegans get enough food, rather than having to share the stuff they can eat with people who will also eat stuff (and leave behind stuff) we can't eat. It's not exclusionary - no one is unable to eat non-meat options. Meat is not an essential - there is no right to meat in every food option. It was also agreed by everyone, meat eaters and not.
    It bloody is exclusionary and vile.

    Its not a choice all the meat eaters made, if it were they'd have had choices at the meals and could choose meat. You mean its a choice some people made, without regard for the concerns for others - or did you seek unanimity of absolutely everyone invited before you made that discriminatory call?

    Have a meat-free meal only for meat-eaters is as irresponsible as having a meat-only meal for vegetarians.
    “999. What’s your emergency?”

    “I’d like to report a crime against logic.”
    "I'm a snowflake petal gibbering at the very thought of not being given 2lb of raw meat at my departmental lunch."
    "I'm a snowflake petal gibbering at the very thought of not being given a vegetarian option at my departmental lunch."

    Either you believe in diversity or you don't. Either you believe in inclusion or you don't.

    If you are excluding vegetarians, or excluding meat eaters, you are being discriminatory and exclusionary. It is a disgraceful attitude in this day and age.

    People should be inclusionary and cater for all diets, or none at all.
    Show me someone who exclusively eats meat, and I'll ensure they are catered for.
    Good.

    I eat meat with every meal. Why should I be excluded from dining, any more than someone who never eats meat?

    If your concern is a lack of vegetarian options then order more vegetarian options, problem solved, don't reduce the meat options down to zero.

    Is that a philosophical belief? A religion? The Church of Gammon?
    Yes it is a philosophical belief, I am a carnivore and on a carnivore diet.

    Now are you going to respect my beliefs and my choice and treat them as equally as you would anyone else, or will you be a bigot and discriminatory?
    Wait.

    You only eat meat?
    I am on a carnivore ketogenic diet, yes.

    Have been since October 2023.

    Currently down 30lbs and in the best health I've been in years.
    And yet my NHS diet sheet (which reads like an advert for 1980s Weight Watchers) says you should be dead.

    Puzzling.
    Give it time.
    Well, that's a given.
    Humans are as adaptable as rats and can exist on many different diets, from the high fat diet of the Inuit to the vegan diet of Buddhist monks.

    Yes. But that's not what's on my diet sheet that was given to me after turning up with severe stress and anxiety. (Zero advice given for stress or anxiety apart from a hand-written note about an Indian mystic).

    It's 'eat refined carbs'. Don't eat nuts, eggs, or any other cheap readily available natural food. I explained that refined carbs make me very, very unwell.

    And I was told to just buy more Gaviscon as it was cheaper than paying for a prescription of the same thing via the NHS.

    I truly worry how many people are being given that sort of advice without double checking for themselves that it's dangerous nonsense.

    I mean, they're mostly poor people, so clearly count for less for both left and right. But personally it worries me.
    That's bonkers advice. I have never heard of a high refined carbohydrate diet recommended by my organisation.
    If only @foxy that were the case. The standard diet badly recommended by the NHS and institutions around the globe for too long is far too carb heavy.

    My diet is to have no more than 20g of carbs a day which I appreciate is extreme, but the NHS recommends males have 300g of carbs in a day in a "healthy" diet.

    Set aside meat which is typically but not always zero carb and just look at vegetables, that's the equivalent of one of eating:

    5 kg of bell peppers or broccoli in a day.
    30kg of spinach in a day.
    8.3kg of asparagus in a day.
    9kg mushrooms in a day.
    3.75kg of avocado in a day.

    300g (plus) of carbs is typically coming from potatoes, bread, rice or pasta etc not spinach, mushrooms etc.

    The advice is terrible and doesn't work. It's why we have so much obesity.
    It depends how you get the carbs - though of course for most people in the UK that's very likely to be processed food. Which is unhealthy.

    Some very high carbohydrate diets are associated with extreme longevity.

    https://www.intake.health/post/high-carb-diet-the-surprising-case-for-optimal-health
    ..Known for finding healthy, long-lived enclaves throughout the world, the Blue Zones project has studied the diets of these healthy communities.

    One food group common to all of these healthy communities is beans.

    From Costa Rica to Okinawa, the healthiest beans are a major part of their diets and are carbohydrate-rich foods. Often, 50-75% of their calorie content are carbohydrates.

    And the women of Okinawa are the some longest lived in the world. The majority of their calories come from purple and orange sweet potatoes. Potatoes can by over 90% carbohydrates, rendering a very high carb diet.

    Ikarians in Greece often eat whole-grain sourdough bread alongside vegetable-rich meals.
    In fact, in these healthy regions, the majority of calories tend to come from vegetables. The Seventh Day Adventists from Loma Linda, California live, on average, a full decade longer than the average American. Some eat fish. Many are vegetarians...
    This stuff is simultaneously complicated and simple (CICO).

    The best advice I ever got was to drink much more water. Keeps you feeling full between meals and has umpteen other benefits. I try about 2 litres a day.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,522

    AlsoLei said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Isn't the answer to marginal tax woes quite simply to salary sacrifice more into your pension ?

    I mean the annual allowance is 60 grand a year !

    Because it's another example of late-middle aged property owners hoarding all the goodies. If you're still to get on the ladder, what's the point of paying a vast amount into your pension if it leaves you with no ability to save for the deposit on a house?

    And, yes, we're talking about a small percentage of high earners, usually in London or the SE of England who are affected by this. But, believe me - they're really, really feeling it.

    And the recent news about Rishi's 23% effective tax rate only stirs them up further. The people who're affected are livid about it.
    "If you're still to get on the ladder, what's the point of paying a vast amount into your pension if it leaves you with no ability to save for the deposit on a house?"

    So you can afford the rent when you are pensioner?

    I'm saying this slightly flippantly, but maybe the new reality is the new reality and today's younger generation will rent all their lives.

    As Nick P sometimes reminds us: this happens on the continent.
    And will be resented, leaving people without a physical stake in their community.
    We all know lots of house owners and lots of renters, but the willingness to feel a stake in their local community depends on a much more general frane of mind. There are high-rent areas with very successful community schemes because a few keen people got them going and loads of others pitched in; conversely there are high-ownership areas where it's not obvious that anyone gives a toss beyond their own immediately environment, unless it's to grumble abuout potholes and the lack of dentists. I don't see that everyone needs to get into house maintenance - many of us are frankly not very good at it - in order to make an effort to help the community.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,220
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    X

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    malcolmg said:

    148grss said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Isn't the answer to marginal tax woes quite simply to salary sacrifice more into your pension ?

    I mean the annual allowance is 60 grand a year !

    Yes, time and time again I get this advice, but with two kids, a mortgage and big bills to pay I need the money now.

    It's a choice between deferring near 100% for at least 15 years (and getting nothing now) and taking a 60% haircut, but getting 40% now.
    Maybe you should just live within your means - stop buying avocado toast and such. That's the advice that always seems to come to my generation when we complain about our income being shit. Bootstraps, pull them up by, etc.
    Green with envy, rather than going out and working hard like Casino you prefer to whine about people who work hard being better off than lazy barstewards like yourself.
    @Casino_Royale ’s only problem is that he lives down south so has a mortgage that is way bigger than the equivalent mortgage would be further north.
    And this is why I think the housing crisis is overstated. There is absolutely nothing stopping people from moving to Retford. Look at this bargain:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/120535733#/?channel=RES_BUY
    How many 100k jobs available near Retford? How many 100k jobs available in London? Wfh may change things (substantially?) but there absolutely is something stopping all the people on good household incomes in London and the other hotspots moving to somewhere more affordable. Jobs.
    The 06:51 gets you into KGX for 08:30:

    https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C28967/2024-02-27/detailed

    That property is only a 15 minute walk from the station. Plenty of people do similar journeys from Hampshire and Wiltshire. Here's what you get for a similar price in Salisbury which is a similar commute to London:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/137356181#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Okay, maybe there are more good jobs in Salisbury than Retford but plenty commute up to London.
    So its about a 4.5-5hr roundtrip commute to work each day when things go well. Works for some. For others life is too short.
    My daily fifteen minute round trip walking commute is one of the reasons I can work over 55 hours every week
    My commute takes me 14 seconds as I slither from my bed to the table with a can of iced coffee

    I still resent even that, slightly
    So was mine for decades and that was before zoom calls so I might well have been at work in my dressing gown while breaking in my ski boots. No wonder I had dreams of attending meetings naked.
    Then you woke up and realised you were in a Teams meeting. Naked.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    edited February 20
    viewcode said:

    If anybody wants me to describe the side-effects of a 3-5hr over100mile commute one way twice a week by train/bus/taxi over several years, including back pain, tooth loss, circulation problems, skin problems, insomnia, cold, pain, fear and a growing inner conviction that we should wipe out the entire species and restart with cats, I am more than happy to lecture you on the topic. Please form an orderly queue... :)

    For more or less any individual the choice exists to avoid a massive commute, though of course it may limit career choices, progression, geography, and all sorts of things. This bad bit of our system relies on mass willingness to endure these things. Personally I opted out of that aspect of it - while being a totally conformist One Nation centrist in all things - over 40 years ago. I have never regretted it and commend it to anyone who wonders about the meaning of life in the 5 hour a day commute.
  • Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-68341244

    AG to appeal the Nottingham triple killing sentence. SFAICS it isn't actually appealable because of the agreement as to his mental state. One to watch with interest.

    Yes I was puzzled about whether the Attorney General knows the law or is just playing to the anti-woke crowd.
    You don’t have to be woke or unwoke to be disturbed by that sentence, given that it was later revealed that in a similar case, a mad murderer who “got better” was released after just a few years inside
    Prison social media inclines to the view he will be worse off in a secure hospital and many prisoners who feign mental illness are soon disillusioned and return to prison. Complete lack of privacy and forced to take drugs, with no possibility of parole.

    But in any case, it is not the sentence people are complaining about but the verdict. At issue is the word murder. He was found not guilty of murder and guilty of manslaughter. That's what sticks in the craw. What we need is a new verdict of murder even though nutty as a fruitcake, and then life in a secure hospital.
    Logically, surely if someone who kills someone because they are mentally ill, ie they would not have done it had they been in their right mind, *should* be released if they get better/recover?

    At the end of the day, whatever the sentence, it doesn't bring the dead people back, and if the sentence is incarceration, of whatever kind, then that should be because the person is considered a danger to others.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited February 20
    Elon suspends Mrs Nevalny's X account because she has been nasty to Vlad the Impaler.

    https://meduza.io/en/news/2024/02/20/x-formerly-twitter-suspends-yulia-navalnaya-s-account
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    Selebian said:

    Off-topic, just seen that I got tagged as a lefty/Labour stooge a few days back. I've voted Lab at a GE once, out of six I've voted in. The same number of times I've voted Conservative in a GE. I will most likely make it 2/7 (for Lab, not Con!) at the next GE, but more a tactical than a conviction vote.

    The mistake CR makes (possibly, I haven't fully untangled whether CR started it) is that I'm 'woke', not particularly left. Where 'woke' is used as a synonym for socially liberal.

    Woke doesn't mean anything.

    How is being a vegan woke?
    Woke does mean something, just not the same to everyone. A bit like porn. How do you define porn? Different people get off on different things. Woke is different for different people.

    In general things described as woke are not bad in themselves, but there can be unintended consequences.

    For instance, you might decide that not enough women are involved in x industry. You might then start only recruiting women to make up the deficit. Is this fair? proportionate?
    You might be organising an event and insist on vegan only catering, to accommodate vegans, ignoring the fact that most people are not vegan and would prefer a choice.

    You might even get hung up on whether a woman can have a penis.
    Gonna stop you on the catering issue - I work in an office where about 25% of us are veggie or vegan. We had to stop ordering meat options because the meat eaters would eat the veggie / vegan options but we obviously couldn't eat the meaty options, so we were left hungry and we would have leftovers.

    Woke is just "political correctness gone mad" which is just "loony lefties" again. Got to remember the original "loony left" usage was to attack local councils who were advocating for, shock horror, treating queer people like human beings and, gasp, catering to ethnic minorities in their communities. It's always been the same thing - if you argue for equitable treatment of people typically considered the out groups, people who benefit from the inequitable treatment complain and try and make you out as a weirdo.
    On the food. Clearly if people are going hungry then a mistake has been made, but I don't think that means you have to order zero meat options. Surely there's a middle ground where there is a choice for those who might want to eat meat, but not so much that non-meat eaters are lefty without - though I'm speaking here as one of those omnivores who tends to avoid meat in a buffet situation, not knowing where it is from, or how long it has been waiting there.

    As to woke generally, there is a lot which is simply this generation's treating people with respect, but there is an element, perhaps a product of the way in which people get riled up online, of being uncompromising, impatient, and, ironically, rude about it.

    It's as though people forget that it might well be a new idea for other people, that it often takes people a while to get used to new ideas, and a bit of open-hearted patience and the benefit of the doubt can go a long way.

    Taking this back to the food example, if a 3:1 meat: no-meat order didn't work, why not try 1:1, or 1:3, before leaping straight away to no meat at all?
    I don't understand why the meat thing is such an issue. When catering at a work do having only veggie / vegan options allows for a typically cheaper option that has (in my experience at least) less waste (and of course the impact of waste is different for meat products and non-meat products), and also means the actual vegetarians and vegans get enough food, rather than having to share the stuff they can eat with people who will also eat stuff (and leave behind stuff) we can't eat. It's not exclusionary - no one is unable to eat non-meat options. Meat is not an essential - there is no right to meat in every food option. It was also agreed by everyone, meat eaters and not.
    It bloody is exclusionary and vile.

    Its not a choice all the meat eaters made, if it were they'd have had choices at the meals and could choose meat. You mean its a choice some people made, without regard for the concerns for others - or did you seek unanimity of absolutely everyone invited before you made that discriminatory call?

    Have a meat-free meal only for meat-eaters is as irresponsible as having a meat-only meal for vegetarians.
    “999. What’s your emergency?”

    “I’d like to report a crime against logic.”
    "I'm a snowflake petal gibbering at the very thought of not being given 2lb of raw meat at my departmental lunch."
    "I'm a snowflake petal gibbering at the very thought of not being given a vegetarian option at my departmental lunch."

    Either you believe in diversity or you don't. Either you believe in inclusion or you don't.

    If you are excluding vegetarians, or excluding meat eaters, you are being discriminatory and exclusionary. It is a disgraceful attitude in this day and age.

    People should be inclusionary and cater for all diets, or none at all.
    Show me someone who exclusively eats meat, and I'll ensure they are catered for.
    Good.

    I eat meat with every meal. Why should I be excluded from dining, any more than someone who never eats meat?

    If your concern is a lack of vegetarian options then order more vegetarian options, problem solved, don't reduce the meat options down to zero.

    Is that a philosophical belief? A religion? The Church of Gammon?
    Yes it is a philosophical belief, I am a carnivore and on a carnivore diet.

    Now are you going to respect my beliefs and my choice and treat them as equally as you would anyone else, or will you be a bigot and discriminatory?
    Wait.

    You only eat meat?
    I am on a carnivore ketogenic diet, yes.

    Have been since October 2023.

    Currently down 30lbs and in the best health I've been in years.
    And yet my NHS diet sheet (which reads like an advert for 1980s Weight Watchers) says you should be dead.

    Puzzling.
    Give it time.
    Well, that's a given.
    Humans are as adaptable as rats and can exist on many different diets, from the high fat diet of the Inuit to the vegan diet of Buddhist monks.

    Yes. But that's not what's on my diet sheet that was given to me after turning up with severe stress and anxiety. (Zero advice given for stress or anxiety apart from a hand-written note about an Indian mystic).

    It's 'eat refined carbs'. Don't eat nuts, eggs, or any other cheap readily available natural food. I explained that refined carbs make me very, very unwell.

    And I was told to just buy more Gaviscon as it was cheaper than paying for a prescription of the same thing via the NHS.

    I truly worry how many people are being given that sort of advice without double checking for themselves that it's dangerous nonsense.

    I mean, they're mostly poor people, so clearly count for less for both left and right. But personally it worries me.
    That's bonkers advice. I have never heard of a high refined carbohydrate diet recommended by my organisation.
    If only @foxy that were the case. The standard diet badly recommended by the NHS and institutions around the globe for too long is far too carb heavy.

    My diet is to have no more than 20g of carbs a day which I appreciate is extreme, but the NHS recommends males have 300g of carbs in a day in a "healthy" diet.

    Set aside meat which is typically but not always zero carb and just look at vegetables, that's the equivalent of one of eating:

    5 kg of bell peppers or broccoli in a day.
    30kg of spinach in a day.
    8.3kg of asparagus in a day.
    9kg mushrooms in a day.
    3.75kg of avocado in a day.

    300g (plus) of carbs is typically coming from potatoes, bread, rice or pasta etc not spinach, mushrooms etc.

    The advice is terrible and doesn't work. It's why we have so much obesity.
    It depends how you get the carbs - though of course for most people in the UK that's very likely to be processed food. Which is unhealthy.

    Some very high carbohydrate diets are associated with extreme longevity.

    https://www.intake.health/post/high-carb-diet-the-surprising-case-for-optimal-health
    ..Known for finding healthy, long-lived enclaves throughout the world, the Blue Zones project has studied the diets of these healthy communities.

    One food group common to all of these healthy communities is beans.

    From Costa Rica to Okinawa, the healthiest beans are a major part of their diets and are carbohydrate-rich foods. Often, 50-75% of their calorie content are carbohydrates.

    And the women of Okinawa are the some longest lived in the world. The majority of their calories come from purple and orange sweet potatoes. Potatoes can by over 90% carbohydrates, rendering a very high carb diet.

    Ikarians in Greece often eat whole-grain sourdough bread alongside vegetable-rich meals.
    In fact, in these healthy regions, the majority of calories tend to come from vegetables. The Seventh Day Adventists from Loma Linda, California live, on average, a full decade longer than the average American. Some eat fish. Many are vegetarians...
    Beans, beans are good for your heart.
    An example of folk knowledge ?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,368
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    I see Birmingham are closing 25 out of its 36 libraries to reduce costs

    Penny-wise and pound-foolish.

    If every there was a public good that was an investment in our future it was a public library.
    One of the richest countries in the world cannot afford public libraries.

    What a pitiful low this generation of tories has brought us to.

    The election can't come soon enough.
    It does feel bleakly emblematic

    I’m pretty sure it’s not entirely the fault of the Tory government, but they are so unpopular they are gonna get saddled with all the bad news. I really do wonder if they might get wiped out entirely, a la Canadienne
    They are I think being fitted up to be a national scapegoat. In the positive, old testament sense of the word. We load everything that's wrong with the country on their shoulders, whether truly their fault or not (this is why any devious plans they had to weaponise the PO scandal against Davey or small boats against Keir were never going to work), and off they wander into the electoral desert to starve. The community can then make a new start and approach old problems with fresh energy.

    That's one of the reasons democracy works. It's also one of the reasons authoritarian regimes with occasional turnover of leaders get the chance for a reboot - notably China after Mao and the Soviet union after Stalin.
    Brum a Scapegoat ? Absurd

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-67053587

    They could have settled the equal pay claim for around £150Million. Now it will cost nearer £750 million. But yet, that is them being scapegoated !!!

    Task and Finish in an area where men predominantly work will end up costing them royally, and the council tax payers. Bin men when they finished the job, early, would go home and get full pay. This was not mitigated across all other areas of the council.


    Stuart Richards, from the GMB union in the West Midlands, said information emerged from an employment tribunal in late 2021 that showed the council's pay structures were "not fit for purpose".

    He added: "That was a real big deal. We also became aware that there were groups of male workers working in the waste service that were working reduced hours but still being paid full time. And there was no mitigation across the rest of the council for that.

    "There's nothing wrong with workers advancing their own terms and conditions but you can't do that at the expense of other workers."
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    Leon said:

    X

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    malcolmg said:

    148grss said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Isn't the answer to marginal tax woes quite simply to salary sacrifice more into your pension ?

    I mean the annual allowance is 60 grand a year !

    Yes, time and time again I get this advice, but with two kids, a mortgage and big bills to pay I need the money now.

    It's a choice between deferring near 100% for at least 15 years (and getting nothing now) and taking a 60% haircut, but getting 40% now.
    Maybe you should just live within your means - stop buying avocado toast and such. That's the advice that always seems to come to my generation when we complain about our income being shit. Bootstraps, pull them up by, etc.
    Green with envy, rather than going out and working hard like Casino you prefer to whine about people who work hard being better off than lazy barstewards like yourself.
    @Casino_Royale ’s only problem is that he lives down south so has a mortgage that is way bigger than the equivalent mortgage would be further north.
    And this is why I think the housing crisis is overstated. There is absolutely nothing stopping people from moving to Retford. Look at this bargain:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/120535733#/?channel=RES_BUY
    How many 100k jobs available near Retford? How many 100k jobs available in London? Wfh may change things (substantially?) but there absolutely is something stopping all the people on good household incomes in London and the other hotspots moving to somewhere more affordable. Jobs.
    The 06:51 gets you into KGX for 08:30:

    https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C28967/2024-02-27/detailed

    That property is only a 15 minute walk from the station. Plenty of people do similar journeys from Hampshire and Wiltshire. Here's what you get for a similar price in Salisbury which is a similar commute to London:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/137356181#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Okay, maybe there are more good jobs in Salisbury than Retford but plenty commute up to London.
    So its about a 4.5-5hr roundtrip commute to work each day when things go well. Works for some. For others life is too short.
    My daily fifteen minute round trip walking commute is one of the reasons I can work over 55 hours every week
    My commute takes me 14 seconds as I slither from my bed to the table with a can of iced coffee

    I still resent even that, slightly
    Isn't your "commute" more a metaphysical exercise than a logistical one?
    Yes but it is real

    I’ve actually tried not even doing that, ie staying in bed and lifting up the laptop

    It doesn’t work. You need some physical shift from the place of sleep to the place of work, even if it is only ten feet and 48 seconds

    Must be some evolutionary reason for it. Or maybe metabolic. You have to stand to get the blood flowing to the brain?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,368
    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:
    This article is so out of touch. Difficult life on £60k a year? What about the other 90%.

    https://moneysprout.co.uk/what-percentage-of-the-uk-earns-over-60k
    "The latest UK data shows that earning over £60k per year puts you in the top 10% of earners in the country. This is the equivalent to the 90th percentile. If you are earning more than £60k per year you are making more than 90% of the working population."
    It is household income, but that is still a very high number compared to most.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    I see Birmingham are closing 25 out of its 36 libraries to reduce costs

    Penny-wise and pound-foolish.

    If every there was a public good that was an investment in our future it was a public library.
    One of the richest countries in the world cannot afford public libraries.

    What a pitiful low this generation of tories has brought us to.

    The election can't come soon enough.
    It does feel bleakly emblematic

    I’m pretty sure it’s not entirely the fault of the Tory government, but they are so unpopular they are gonna get saddled with all the bad news. I really do wonder if they might get wiped out entirely, a la Canadienne
    They are I think being fitted up to be a national scapegoat. In the positive, old testament sense of the word. We load everything that's wrong with the country on their shoulders, whether truly their fault or not (this is why any devious plans they had to weaponise the PO scandal against Davey or small boats against Keir were never going to work), and off they wander into the electoral desert to starve. The community can then make a new start and approach old problems with fresh energy.

    That's one of the reasons democracy works. It's also one of the reasons authoritarian regimes with occasional turnover of leaders get the chance for a reboot - notably China after Mao and the Soviet union after Stalin.
    You won’t agree, but this is also: why brexit

    We no longer have anyone to blame for our woes but ourselves. We can’t blame ‘Brussels’ or the ‘eurocrats’ or ‘the unelected commission’

    Our problems are ours to fix, and we have the democratic means to do so. By dumping the government with great venom.The annihilation of the party that delivered brexit is itself a vindication of their singular, unpopular achievement: Brexit

    What a magnificent irony
    It's significant that the new government will come in without such excuses. They won't be able to rule out doing x, y, or z simply by saying that EU rules don't allow it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,368

    Elon suspends Mrs Nevalny's X account because she has been nasty to Vlad the Impaler.

    https://meduza.io/en/news/2024/02/20/x-formerly-twitter-suspends-yulia-navalnaya-s-account

    It would be closed for breaching X's terms. What did Navalny's wife say ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    I see Birmingham are closing 25 out of its 36 libraries to reduce costs

    Penny-wise and pound-foolish.

    If every there was a public good that was an investment in our future it was a public library.
    One of the richest countries in the world cannot afford public libraries.

    What a pitiful low this generation of tories has brought us to.

    The election can't come soon enough.
    It does feel bleakly emblematic

    I’m pretty sure it’s not entirely the fault of the Tory government, but they are so unpopular they are gonna get saddled with all the bad news. I really do wonder if they might get wiped out entirely, a la Canadienne
    They are I think being fitted up to be a national scapegoat. In the positive, old testament sense of the word. We load everything that's wrong with the country on their shoulders, whether truly their fault or not (this is why any devious plans they had to weaponise the PO scandal against Davey or small boats against Keir were never going to work), and off they wander into the electoral desert to starve. The community can then make a new start and approach old problems with fresh energy.

    That's one of the reasons democracy works. It's also one of the reasons authoritarian regimes with occasional turnover of leaders get the chance for a reboot - notably China after Mao and the Soviet union after Stalin.
    You won’t agree, but this is also: why brexit

    We no longer have anyone to blame for our woes but ourselves. We can’t blame ‘Brussels’ or the ‘eurocrats’ or ‘the unelected commission’

    Our problems are ours to fix, and we have the democratic means to do so. By dumping the government with great venom.The annihilation of the party that delivered brexit is itself a vindication of their singular, unpopular achievement: Brexit

    What a magnificent irony
    No, Brexit just provided an unnecessary distraction for a decade.
    To no one's benefit.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,643
    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    PB might be interested to find that the government has performed a dangerous u-turn on tax breaks for double cab pick-up trucks.

    These kinds of vehicles are responsible in the large increase in child road casualties in the US (estimates of around 8x more deadly in a collision, plus reduced visibility over high bonnets). More dangerous than XL Bullies, I'll wager.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/update-on-hmrc-double-cab-pick-up-guidance

    The difference is that in the US, they are used by every fool to go and buy a Starbucks.

    Double cab pickups are only used (to a high degree of confidence) in the U.K. by businesses which need to transport combinations of people and materials. Builders are the classic example.

    The difference is that in the US, culture and taxation encourages absurd vehicles.

    Interestingly, in the UK, their introduction led to a drop in injuries from the good old practise of piling people and tools together in the back of the Transit. An actual seat with crash protection, a seat belt and no piles of sharp heavy things is safer. Who knew?
    I suppose we can wait and see what happens.- it's true that this hasn't happened yet in the UK.

    Transits have much better visibility than pick-up trucks.

    There isnt the cult of the monster car, in the U.K. The urban SUV thing is people buying a shorter, higher vehicle to get the same space as an estate car in less length.

    No one buys a long cab for fun in the U.K.. They are van sized, but with more seats and reduced load space, compared to the same footprint.

    The reason for buying them is carrying more than 3 people. Unless you want to go back to vans with people squatting in the back?
    I'd suggest that the main reason for buying them is that they get a tax break worth between £3000 and £6000 per annum compared to something classified as a car, and make it easier to evade VAT on fuel used domestically. *

    In the justification for maintaining the tax break the Govt cited "farmers" and "the motor industry". The motor industry are invested in sales. "Farmers" can still get the tax breaks by reasonably registering it as a commercial via their business.

    The target is votes from people who benefit from the strange tax break.

    Personally I supported the measure before the cynical reverse-ferret because these vehicles are huge ( I have perhaps the longest estate car in the country, and a Ford Ranger CC is about 50cm longer), are less safe when driven, and are known to be more dangerous for pedestrians. **

    * https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/consumer/tax-hike-pick-ups-reversed-uk-government Autocar have switched their article. Screenshot from previous below
    ** https://etsc.eu/suvs-and-pickups-make-the-roads-less-safe-for-car-occupants-pedestrians-and-cyclists-belgian-study/

    The obvious point is that a double cab means it is less effective for things like farming, and much more effective for the school run.

    Not looking forward to the consternation in 10 years time when casualties are through the roof.
    For contractor or business types needing to carry workforce, there are now mid-size vans available with two rows of seats (eg Ford Transit Connect or Vauxhall Vivaro) which are 0.5m - 1m shorter, so fit in a parking space, are cheaper to buy, more economical, and better load carriers. *

    But when you give someone a 3k - 5k a year tax break to buy something bigger, more expensive, less efficient and less effective, rational decisions are distorted. Smaller crew cab pickups will still be classified as "cars", so it's the huge ones that are incentivised.

    * interestingly these are now also common choices for eg wheelchair users.
    I've only just realised your latter point. This punishes people with smaller pick ups while giving a tax break to those with massive ones. FFS.

    I was going to compare this to the Dangerous Dogs Act but I think it's actually worse.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    edited February 20

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-68341244

    AG to appeal the Nottingham triple killing sentence. SFAICS it isn't actually appealable because of the agreement as to his mental state. One to watch with interest.

    Yes I was puzzled about whether the Attorney General knows the law or is just playing to the anti-woke crowd.
    You don’t have to be woke or unwoke to be disturbed by that sentence, given that it was later revealed that in a similar case, a mad murderer who “got better” was released after just a few years inside
    Prison social media inclines to the view he will be worse off in a secure hospital and many prisoners who feign mental illness are soon disillusioned and return to prison. Complete lack of privacy and forced to take drugs, with no possibility of parole.

    But in any case, it is not the sentence people are complaining about but the verdict. At issue is the word murder. He was found not guilty of murder and guilty of manslaughter. That's what sticks in the craw. What we need is a new verdict of murder even though nutty as a fruitcake, and then life in a secure hospital.
    I would simply hang him, and save the cash

    However I accept my opinion is unusual (on pb, not in the wider world) in which light I agree with you: there should be a verdict/sentence of “manslaughter due to madness but life inside anyway”

    The victims’ families deserve that reassurance
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174
    edited February 20

    algarkirk said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-68341244

    AG to appeal the Nottingham triple killing sentence. SFAICS it isn't actually appealable because of the agreement as to his mental state. One to watch with interest.

    Yes I was puzzled about whether the Attorney General knows the law or is just playing to the anti-woke crowd.
    Is it anti-woke? Sky News seem to be making a big thing of it so it seems unlikely to be an anti-woke cause.

    I have no issues with manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility. But life should mean life in such cases and the judge left it open to him one day being released.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    I see Birmingham are closing 25 out of its 36 libraries to reduce costs

    Penny-wise and pound-foolish.

    If every there was a public good that was an investment in our future it was a public library.
    One of the richest countries in the world cannot afford public libraries.

    What a pitiful low this generation of tories has brought us to.

    The election can't come soon enough.
    It does feel bleakly emblematic

    I’m pretty sure it’s not entirely the fault of the Tory government, but they are so unpopular they are gonna get saddled with all the bad news. I really do wonder if they might get wiped out entirely, a la Canadienne
    They are I think being fitted up to be a national scapegoat. In the positive, old testament sense of the word. We load everything that's wrong with the country on their shoulders, whether truly their fault or not (this is why any devious plans they had to weaponise the PO scandal against Davey or small boats against Keir were never going to work), and off they wander into the electoral desert to starve. The community can then make a new start and approach old problems with fresh energy.

    That's one of the reasons democracy works. It's also one of the reasons authoritarian regimes with occasional turnover of leaders get the chance for a reboot - notably China after Mao and the Soviet union after Stalin.
    You won’t agree, but this is also: why brexit

    We no longer have anyone to blame for our woes but ourselves. We can’t blame ‘Brussels’ or the ‘eurocrats’ or ‘the unelected commission’

    Our problems are ours to fix, and we have the democratic means to do so. By dumping the government with great venom.The annihilation of the party that delivered brexit is itself a vindication of their singular, unpopular achievement: Brexit

    What a magnificent irony
    It’s one of the stronger arguments for Brexit: that we would stop being able to blame Brussels and learn to stand on our own two feet.

    Sadly but predictably the Tories blew the chance by immediately casting around for new bogeymen to blame instead.

    I think the sending out of the scapegoat this year will give the country a window: 1 year, maybe 2, in which a sense of cautious optimism can prevail. After which the finger of blame will start rotating again.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    edit
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,643
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    X

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    malcolmg said:

    148grss said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Isn't the answer to marginal tax woes quite simply to salary sacrifice more into your pension ?

    I mean the annual allowance is 60 grand a year !

    Yes, time and time again I get this advice, but with two kids, a mortgage and big bills to pay I need the money now.

    It's a choice between deferring near 100% for at least 15 years (and getting nothing now) and taking a 60% haircut, but getting 40% now.
    Maybe you should just live within your means - stop buying avocado toast and such. That's the advice that always seems to come to my generation when we complain about our income being shit. Bootstraps, pull them up by, etc.
    Green with envy, rather than going out and working hard like Casino you prefer to whine about people who work hard being better off than lazy barstewards like yourself.
    @Casino_Royale ’s only problem is that he lives down south so has a mortgage that is way bigger than the equivalent mortgage would be further north.
    And this is why I think the housing crisis is overstated. There is absolutely nothing stopping people from moving to Retford. Look at this bargain:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/120535733#/?channel=RES_BUY
    How many 100k jobs available near Retford? How many 100k jobs available in London? Wfh may change things (substantially?) but there absolutely is something stopping all the people on good household incomes in London and the other hotspots moving to somewhere more affordable. Jobs.
    The 06:51 gets you into KGX for 08:30:

    https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C28967/2024-02-27/detailed

    That property is only a 15 minute walk from the station. Plenty of people do similar journeys from Hampshire and Wiltshire. Here's what you get for a similar price in Salisbury which is a similar commute to London:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/137356181#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Okay, maybe there are more good jobs in Salisbury than Retford but plenty commute up to London.
    So its about a 4.5-5hr roundtrip commute to work each day when things go well. Works for some. For others life is too short.
    My daily fifteen minute round trip walking commute is one of the reasons I can work over 55 hours every week
    My commute takes me 14 seconds as I slither from my bed to the table with a can of iced coffee

    I still resent even that, slightly
    Isn't your "commute" more a metaphysical exercise than a logistical one?
    Yes but it is real

    I’ve actually tried not even doing that, ie staying in bed and lifting up the laptop

    It doesn’t work. You need some physical shift from the place of sleep to the place of work, even if it is only ten feet and 48 seconds

    Must be some evolutionary reason for it. Or maybe metabolic. You have to stand to get the blood flowing to the brain?
    Hmm. If I can't work out why my code doesn't work in the evening, I have a brief 30 minute window the following morning when I can usually work it out. Some of my best analysis happens in bed.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    I see Birmingham are closing 25 out of its 36 libraries to reduce costs

    Penny-wise and pound-foolish.

    If every there was a public good that was an investment in our future it was a public library.
    One of the richest countries in the world cannot afford public libraries.

    What a pitiful low this generation of tories has brought us to.

    The election can't come soon enough.
    It does feel bleakly emblematic

    I’m pretty sure it’s not entirely the fault of the Tory government, but they are so unpopular they are gonna get saddled with all the bad news. I really do wonder if they might get wiped out entirely, a la Canadienne
    As has been discussed here before, the problems with some local govt is down to inept management by previous administrations. They tend to all get lumped in with the ones who are suffering from other issues related to the grant.

    Nottingham City and Brum being two examples.

    Brum is facing a massive equal pay claim it cannot afford. Has an IT project they have massively overspent on as well as other things. Money spunked on the Commonwealth games, how has that worked out ?

    But, yeah, it's all down to the govt.
    Speaking of which, does anyone know what the situation is with the next two editions of the games?

    As far as I can see, for 2026, there's still no replacement host after Victoria pulled out. Scotland and London had both been making noises about bids - but in December the UK govt said no, citing the poor return on the Birmingham games.

    And for 2030, there are no bidders. Two potential Canadian bids have been withdrawn, and no-one else seems interesting in stepping forward.

    So is that it? No more Commonwealth Games? And if so, will anyone care?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,800
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    I see Birmingham are closing 25 out of its 36 libraries to reduce costs

    Penny-wise and pound-foolish.

    If every there was a public good that was an investment in our future it was a public library.
    One of the richest countries in the world cannot afford public libraries.

    What a pitiful low this generation of tories has brought us to.

    The election can't come soon enough.
    It does feel bleakly emblematic

    I’m pretty sure it’s not entirely the fault of the Tory government, but they are so unpopular they are gonna get saddled with all the bad news. I really do wonder if they might get wiped out entirely, a la Canadienne
    They are I think being fitted up to be a national scapegoat. In the positive, old testament sense of the word. We load everything that's wrong with the country on their shoulders, whether truly their fault or not (this is why any devious plans they had to weaponise the PO scandal against Davey or small boats against Keir were never going to work), and off they wander into the electoral desert to starve. The community can then make a new start and approach old problems with fresh energy.

    That's one of the reasons democracy works. It's also one of the reasons authoritarian regimes with occasional turnover of leaders get the chance for a reboot - notably China after Mao and the Soviet union after Stalin.
    You won’t agree, but this is also: why brexit

    We no longer have anyone to blame for our woes but ourselves. We can’t blame ‘Brussels’ or the ‘eurocrats’ or ‘the unelected commission’

    Our problems are ours to fix, and we have the democratic means to do so. By dumping the government with great venom.The annihilation of the party that delivered brexit is itself a vindication of their singular, unpopular achievement: Brexit

    What a magnificent irony
    It’s one of the stronger arguments for Brexit: that we would stop being able to blame Brussels and learn to stand on our own two feet.

    Sadly but predictably the Tories blew the chance by immediately casting around for new bogeymen to blame instead.

    I think the sending out of the scapegoat this year will give the country a window: 1 year, maybe 2, in which a sense of cautious optimism can prevail. After which the finger of blame will start rotating again.
    Not sure about that. I think people are getting bored and cynical about Starmer's administration already and he hasn't even taken office yet.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,814
    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:
    This article is so out of touch. Difficult life on £60k a year? What about the other 90%.

    https://moneysprout.co.uk/what-percentage-of-the-uk-earns-over-60k
    "The latest UK data shows that earning over £60k per year puts you in the top 10% of earners in the country. This is the equivalent to the 90th percentile. If you are earning more than £60k per year you are making more than 90% of the working population."
    Jobs that would have led to a comfortable lifestyle a generation ago, no longer do in London and other property hotspots. That is something noteworthy for society regardless of the obvious fact that most people are and were worse off than people in such jobs.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Taz said:

    Elon suspends Mrs Nevalny's X account because she has been nasty to Vlad the Impaler.

    https://meduza.io/en/news/2024/02/20/x-formerly-twitter-suspends-yulia-navalnaya-s-account

    It would be closed for breaching X's terms. What did Navalny's wife say ?
    I believe she directly accused Vlad of procuring the assassination of her husband.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-68341244

    AG to appeal the Nottingham triple killing sentence. SFAICS it isn't actually appealable because of the agreement as to his mental state. One to watch with interest.

    Yes I was puzzled about whether the Attorney General knows the law or is just playing to the anti-woke crowd.
    You don’t have to be woke or unwoke to be disturbed by that sentence, given that it was later revealed that in a similar case, a mad murderer who “got better” was released after just a few years inside
    Prison social media inclines to the view he will be worse off in a secure hospital and many prisoners who feign mental illness are soon disillusioned and return to prison. Complete lack of privacy and forced to take drugs, with no possibility of parole.

    But in any case, it is not the sentence people are complaining about but the verdict. At issue is the word murder. He was found not guilty of murder and guilty of manslaughter. That's what sticks in the craw. What we need is a new verdict of murder even though nutty as a fruitcake, and then life in a secure hospital.
    Logically, surely if someone who kills someone because they are mentally ill, ie they would not have done it had they been in their right mind, *should* be released if they get better/recover?

    At the end of the day, whatever the sentence, it doesn't bring the dead people back, and if the sentence is incarceration, of whatever kind, then that should be because the person is considered a danger to others.
    No. The assumption should be that if you somehow recover from a madness so great it led you to murder others (and who really recovers from that) then you can spend another 20 years after your recovery, inside, in a proper jail, so society can make sure your alleged recovery is real
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    edited February 20
    Andy_JS said:
    I think that Northumberland is missing from that list.
    https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/comment/local-government-finance-settlement-council-bankruptcies

    And that an equally illuminating complementary stat is that getting on for 50 Councils are thought to be at risk of needing to issue them.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,408
    I see some comments on here have entered reductio ad absurdum: i.e. because a 100k salary is much greater than I have, and I have it tough, there is no level of taxation that can be high enough, and they have absolutely no right whatsoever to complain about it.

    Such an approach is the path to penury, and economic ruin; it would result in less tax, less growth, less revenue and worse public services.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    DavidL said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    I see Birmingham are closing 25 out of its 36 libraries to reduce costs

    Penny-wise and pound-foolish.

    If every there was a public good that was an investment in our future it was a public library.
    One of the richest countries in the world cannot afford public libraries.

    What a pitiful low this generation of tories has brought us to.

    The election can't come soon enough.
    It does feel bleakly emblematic

    I’m pretty sure it’s not entirely the fault of the Tory government, but they are so unpopular they are gonna get saddled with all the bad news. I really do wonder if they might get wiped out entirely, a la Canadienne
    They are I think being fitted up to be a national scapegoat. In the positive, old testament sense of the word. We load everything that's wrong with the country on their shoulders, whether truly their fault or not (this is why any devious plans they had to weaponise the PO scandal against Davey or small boats against Keir were never going to work), and off they wander into the electoral desert to starve. The community can then make a new start and approach old problems with fresh energy.

    That's one of the reasons democracy works. It's also one of the reasons authoritarian regimes with occasional turnover of leaders get the chance for a reboot - notably China after Mao and the Soviet union after Stalin.
    You won’t agree, but this is also: why brexit

    We no longer have anyone to blame for our woes but ourselves. We can’t blame ‘Brussels’ or the ‘eurocrats’ or ‘the unelected commission’

    Our problems are ours to fix, and we have the democratic means to do so. By dumping the government with great venom.The annihilation of the party that delivered brexit is itself a vindication of their singular, unpopular achievement: Brexit

    What a magnificent irony
    It’s one of the stronger arguments for Brexit: that we would stop being able to blame Brussels and learn to stand on our own two feet.

    Sadly but predictably the Tories blew the chance by immediately casting around for new bogeymen to blame instead.

    I think the sending out of the scapegoat this year will give the country a window: 1 year, maybe 2, in which a sense of cautious optimism can prevail. After which the finger of blame will start rotating again.
    Not sure about that. I think people are getting bored and cynical about Starmer's administration already and he hasn't even taken office yet.
    DavidL said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    I see Birmingham are closing 25 out of its 36 libraries to reduce costs

    Penny-wise and pound-foolish.

    If every there was a public good that was an investment in our future it was a public library.
    One of the richest countries in the world cannot afford public libraries.

    What a pitiful low this generation of tories has brought us to.

    The election can't come soon enough.
    It does feel bleakly emblematic

    I’m pretty sure it’s not entirely the fault of the Tory government, but they are so unpopular they are gonna get saddled with all the bad news. I really do wonder if they might get wiped out entirely, a la Canadienne
    They are I think being fitted up to be a national scapegoat. In the positive, old testament sense of the word. We load everything that's wrong with the country on their shoulders, whether truly their fault or not (this is why any devious plans they had to weaponise the PO scandal against Davey or small boats against Keir were never going to work), and off they wander into the electoral desert to starve. The community can then make a new start and approach old problems with fresh energy.

    That's one of the reasons democracy works. It's also one of the reasons authoritarian regimes with occasional turnover of leaders get the chance for a reboot - notably China after Mao and the Soviet union after Stalin.
    You won’t agree, but this is also: why brexit

    We no longer have anyone to blame for our woes but ourselves. We can’t blame ‘Brussels’ or the ‘eurocrats’ or ‘the unelected commission’

    Our problems are ours to fix, and we have the democratic means to do so. By dumping the government with great venom.The annihilation of the party that delivered brexit is itself a vindication of their singular, unpopular achievement: Brexit

    What a magnificent irony
    It’s one of the stronger arguments for Brexit: that we would stop being able to blame Brussels and learn to stand on our own two feet.

    Sadly but predictably the Tories blew the chance by immediately casting around for new bogeymen to blame instead.

    I think the sending out of the scapegoat this year will give the country a window: 1 year, maybe 2, in which a sense of cautious optimism can prevail. After which the finger of blame will start rotating again.
    Not sure about that. I think people are getting bored and cynical about Starmer's administration already and he hasn't even taken office yet.
    They’re just expectation managing. Come 3rd May / 15th November they will be feeling different.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    Elon suspends Mrs Nevalny's X account because she has been nasty to Vlad the Impaler.

    https://meduza.io/en/news/2024/02/20/x-formerly-twitter-suspends-yulia-navalnaya-s-account

    I wonder if there is a line he will cross where he becomes a target for an accident at the hands of Ukrainian operatives.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    edited February 20
    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:
    This article is so out of touch. Difficult life on £60k a year? What about the other 90%.

    https://moneysprout.co.uk/what-percentage-of-the-uk-earns-over-60k
    "The latest UK data shows that earning over £60k per year puts you in the top 10% of earners in the country. This is the equivalent to the 90th percentile. If you are earning more than £60k per year you are making more than 90% of the working population."
    Is it out of touch, or just demonstrating how messed up things are, if even some of those on £60k aren't finding life peachy ?

    The story is really about the "one in three chance of someone earning a middle income today not doing so next year", alongside historically high housing costs, rather than high income hardship.

    So the headline is just the usual attention grabbing hyperbole, but the problems behind it exist for many more than those on £60k.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,368
    Andy_JS said:
    None of these are due to the govt and the central grant and, quite frankly, why should the taxpayer in the UK bail out these councils ?

    These councils seem to be run, or have been run, abysmally.



    Woking

    Government commissioners have been sent in to a council amid "significant risks" over its £2bn debt following failing investments.

    £2 Billion debt due to failed investments. Insane.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-65712567

    Slough was historic accounting errors and excessive borrowing to purchase land.

    Croydon failed property deals and speculation, already bailed out once with an emergency loan by the govt. Debt of well over £1 Billion. Third time it has gone bankrup.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-63714274

    Thurrock failed investments in solar energy farms and other risky investments.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jun/15/thurrock-council-hid-losses-gambled-millions-risky-investments




  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    X

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    malcolmg said:

    148grss said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Isn't the answer to marginal tax woes quite simply to salary sacrifice more into your pension ?

    I mean the annual allowance is 60 grand a year !

    Yes, time and time again I get this advice, but with two kids, a mortgage and big bills to pay I need the money now.

    It's a choice between deferring near 100% for at least 15 years (and getting nothing now) and taking a 60% haircut, but getting 40% now.
    Maybe you should just live within your means - stop buying avocado toast and such. That's the advice that always seems to come to my generation when we complain about our income being shit. Bootstraps, pull them up by, etc.
    Green with envy, rather than going out and working hard like Casino you prefer to whine about people who work hard being better off than lazy barstewards like yourself.
    @Casino_Royale ’s only problem is that he lives down south so has a mortgage that is way bigger than the equivalent mortgage would be further north.
    And this is why I think the housing crisis is overstated. There is absolutely nothing stopping people from moving to Retford. Look at this bargain:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/120535733#/?channel=RES_BUY
    How many 100k jobs available near Retford? How many 100k jobs available in London? Wfh may change things (substantially?) but there absolutely is something stopping all the people on good household incomes in London and the other hotspots moving to somewhere more affordable. Jobs.
    The 06:51 gets you into KGX for 08:30:

    https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C28967/2024-02-27/detailed

    That property is only a 15 minute walk from the station. Plenty of people do similar journeys from Hampshire and Wiltshire. Here's what you get for a similar price in Salisbury which is a similar commute to London:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/137356181#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Okay, maybe there are more good jobs in Salisbury than Retford but plenty commute up to London.
    So its about a 4.5-5hr roundtrip commute to work each day when things go well. Works for some. For others life is too short.
    My daily fifteen minute round trip walking commute is one of the reasons I can work over 55 hours every week
    My commute takes me 14 seconds as I slither from my bed to the table with a can of iced coffee

    I still resent even that, slightly
    Isn't your "commute" more a metaphysical exercise than a logistical one?
    Yes but it is real

    I’ve actually tried not even doing that, ie staying in bed and lifting up the laptop

    It doesn’t work. You need some physical shift from the place of sleep to the place of work, even if it is only ten feet and 48 seconds

    Must be some evolutionary reason for it. Or maybe metabolic. You have to stand to get the blood flowing to the brain?
    Didn't Proust stay in bed and write?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    tlg86 said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-68341244

    AG to appeal the Nottingham triple killing sentence. SFAICS it isn't actually appealable because of the agreement as to his mental state. One to watch with interest.

    Yes I was puzzled about whether the Attorney General knows the law or is just playing to the anti-woke crowd.
    Is it anti-woke? Sky News seem to be making a big thing of it so it seems unlikely to be an anti-woke cause.

    I have no issues with manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility. But life should mean life in such cases and the judge left it open to him one day being released.
    FWIW I am unable to see what the judge could have otherwise done, within the law as it stands. And I have not yet read any lawyerly comment otherwise. And I notice that all the reports and verbiage I have read so far give no clue as to the grounds of the appeal, or even speculate about it.

    NB I am not sure if, being the AG, he has to apply for leave to appeal, which would be normal. Anyone know?
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-68341244

    AG to appeal the Nottingham triple killing sentence. SFAICS it isn't actually appealable because of the agreement as to his mental state. One to watch with interest.

    Yes I was puzzled about whether the Attorney General knows the law or is just playing to the anti-woke crowd.
    You don’t have to be woke or unwoke to be disturbed by that sentence, given that it was later revealed that in a similar case, a mad murderer who “got better” was released after just a few years inside
    Prison social media inclines to the view he will be worse off in a secure hospital and many prisoners who feign mental illness are soon disillusioned and return to prison. Complete lack of privacy and forced to take drugs, with no possibility of parole.

    But in any case, it is not the sentence people are complaining about but the verdict. At issue is the word murder. He was found not guilty of murder and guilty of manslaughter. That's what sticks in the craw. What we need is a new verdict of murder even though nutty as a fruitcake, and then life in a secure hospital.
    Logically, surely if someone who kills someone because they are mentally ill, ie they would not have done it had they been in their right mind, *should* be released if they get better/recover?

    At the end of the day, whatever the sentence, it doesn't bring the dead people back, and if the sentence is incarceration, of whatever kind, then that should be because the person is considered a danger to others.
    No. The assumption should be that if you somehow recover from a madness so great it led you to murder others (and who really recovers from that) then you can spend another 20 years after your recovery, inside, in a proper jail, so society can make sure your alleged recovery is real

    Sounds very costly to the tax payer. I don't know enough about mental illness to know how likely it is for someone to recover, but if, as you suggest, I they don't, then they stay incarcerated
This discussion has been closed.