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The SNP’s lead in Scotland down to just 7% – politicalbetting.com

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  • HarperHarper Posts: 197
    rcs1000 said:

    Harper said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    So, who have we got defending Putin?

    Williamglenn and a Russian bot called Harper... anyone else?

    There are some on the right in the UK that are so far down the culture war rabbit hole that getting one over Biden and the Libs is more important than the defence of Ukraine and vital British security and defence interests.

    I am probably in a 'culture war rabbit hole', but would nonetheless comment as follows:

    The discussion about Ukraine on PB is hopeless. The consensus is that Putin is Hitler and we are in the run up to the second world war again, so Russia has to be stopped by shipping an unlimited amount of military hardware there, at any cost. And any other opinion is giving in to fascism.

    Such comments are useful mainly as evidence of the effectiveness of propaganda, they offer no real insight in to the situation.



    Oh, I think Ukraine is very simple.

    A democratic, friendly country has been invaded.

    We do not have a military alliance with that country, so clearly should not be sending people.

    But we absolutely should offer all assistance short of fighting.

    Do you have a different opinion?
    Interesting argument as far as it goes but the problem is the differential in manpower. Russia has much more of it so can afford more losses. And whilst Ukraine may not have lost as many troops as Russia they have still lost a huge number. Regardless of weapons sent you still need the manpower. Now the way to make up this manpower differential would be to send in NATO troops. That would likely near guarantee victory short of a nuclear conflagaration. But you are unwilling to do this. Why?
    Well, if Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine stops fighting.

    It's their people and their call to make, not ours.
    Well not really. Its the leaders like Zelensky calling the shots. Conflating the decisions of ukraines leaders with the will of the people may not be correct. Many young men are hiding from conscription are you telling me they want the fighting to continue.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,241
    >

    So, who have we got defending Putin?

    Williamglenn and a Russian bot called Harper... anyone else?

    There are some on the right in the UK that are so far down the culture war rabbit hole that getting one over Biden and the Libs is more important than the defence of Ukraine and vital British security and defence interests...

    ...democracy and Western civilisation.

    They are the heirs to the 1930s Tory appeasers.
    That’s pretty harsh on Halifax and his friends

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    AlsoLei said:

    Harper said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    Madonna in her prime was bigger with a wider fan base.
    Sure, but... 50 years ago. Don't they let you have access to Youtube in Moscow?
    I know of Madonna, she’s been in films. But I had to Google Lu Lu.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    BORIS JOHNSON: Putin's interview with his fawning stooge Tucker Carlson was straight out of Hitler's playbook. I pray Americans see through this unholy charade

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-13066311/BORIS-JOHNSON-Putin-Tucker-Carlson-interview-stooge-Hitler-charade.html

    The same Bozo that wants Trump to win ! How can you support Ukraine and want Trump to win and screw them .
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,728
    Harper said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    Madonna in her prime was bigger with a wider fan base.
    Was she though? Swift is absolutely huge in a way that transcends pop. Her tour has broken every record going. I'm not sure Madonna could have re-recorded her back catalogue and topped the charts with albums that were old material.

    However, even the biggest stars have less of a footprint than we might assume. Swift was the biggest-selling artist of last year by a mile (she has managed this 5 times, Madonna 0 btw) - with an album she originally released a decade ago. But sold around 2 million copies - a tonne in music these days, but a drop in the ocean among an electorate that runs into the hundreds of millions.

    This isn't unusual. To become a huge, global star you only need a relatively small percentage of the population to love you. After all there are a lot of 60 or 70 year olds who prefer the music of their youth.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    I agree with those who say that Taylor Swift’s influence is overstated compared with, say, Madonna in her prime.

    Her dominance is in a channel (social) which inherently doesn’t reach the broadest possible audiences.

    Postman don’t whistle Swift songs.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    She has 280 million followers on Instagram. Putting musical influence to one side, she is the Beatles for Millennials.
    I'm embarrassed to admit that I could not name a single one of her songs. Just completely passed me by I'm afraid. Obviously the fault is mine.
    I was the same. But one of my colleagues is a Swifty and persuaded me to listen to Midnights.

    My verdict: Not too bad, but not as good as Natalie Imbruglia in her prime.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    Wait: who is saying what about Taylor Swift?

    She's a popstar. Lots of people love her. But popstars have never moved votes. If they did, there wouldn't have been a right wing government elected in the developed world in fifty years.
    Lulu campaigned for Thatcher in 1979.

    image
    Not to mention Jimmy Saville. Not all celeb's are lefties. Or indeed paedophiles.

    (For avoidance of doubt - I am sure Lulu is not a paedo - if anything I suspect she skews older man as she has taste. #olderman #available)
  • Harper said:

    kinabalu said:

    maxh said:



    So, who have we got defending Putin?

    Williamglenn and a Russian bot called Harper... anyone else?

    Is Robert allowing us to keep this bot for a little while? He seems a bit more fun than most.
    Sock puppet rather than bot is my working assumption. Though those are also verboten, are they not?
    Certainly not a bot. There's the human touch.
    Ah Kinabalu I know a quiet place on the Heath we can meet just you and me. Let me bring some sizzle into your life.
    Will there be badgers? 🦡
    No, but you are bound to meet a fox.
    There's a Leicester in Moscow?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    She has 280 million followers on Instagram. Putting musical influence to one side, she is the Beatles for Millennials.
    I'm embarrassed to admit that I could not name a single one of her songs. Just completely passed me by I'm afraid. Obviously the fault is mine.
    She has the odd catchy number. Shake It Off. It’s not Paige and Plant. But her musicality is not what this is about. It’s her cross aisle appeal, even across generations.
    I just watched the video for Shake it off. I think the word I would use is....banal. But it has had 3.4bn, yes billion views on Youtube so I am clearly wrong.
    Ronnie R’s filmography was not Royal Shakespeare Co either. Personally I’d rather vote for McConaughey than Swift. He’s a proper purple he is.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    From Swift Boat Veterans to Taylor Swift. Two decades in American politics.

    If some journo uses that, I want royalties.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Harper said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Halfway through tucker Putin


    Interim verdict: Putin looks healthy enough. Quite on top of his brief. Remember when we were told he was dying?

    Also: not mad. Obsessive. Autocratic. But not insane. Not immediately off putting. Wily. Cunning. Duplicitous

    I sense he really doesn’t want to invade and conquer Eastern Europe. But he really does want a large chunk of Ukraine. And he is genuinely aggrieved about NATO expansion - it’s not a pretext

    So a dangerous man but not a Hitler

    Interim verdict on tucker: doing the best he can. His main achievement is getting the interview in the first place - creating the envy of all his peers

    He also asks some quite devious questions that make Putin look a little credulous or clumsy but he does it in a way that Putin doesn’t notice

    It is not 120 minutes of sycophancy. But I am only halfway through

    Yet still 50 minutes longer than most people with their heads actually screwed on have managed.

    Some of us still remember the days when you were telling us all that Putin would be our saviour.

    Another one that didn’t surprise on the upside.
    It it a constant source of amazement to me that your only friend is a dog, given the ready wit, personal charm and that sly, playful charisma you regularly exhibit on this site
    You are wasted on this site Leon. Your charm charisma and intelligence is too much for the regulars to handle.
    I know. I sometimes feel I am more approached in Sverdlovsk than Swindon

    A prophet without honour etc
    What's happened to you, Leon? Are you OK?
    Cambodia. Doing good professional knapping but bereft of social life - a self inflicted monastic solitude which I now possibly regret. Because it makes me reliant on PB for discourse at a time when PB has turned to shit

    No wonder so many have fled the site

    But I will end up with some excellent flints - I think - and it will all be worth it. Head down. Do the graft

    Good work SHOULD be hard
    Is PB not just in a lull waiting for some significant political betting to start? The general election could be mere weeks away and the US election is definitely in November. Calm before the storm (and the opportunity to fleece some less savvy punters on the markets?)
    No. Absolutely no

    It is in a terrible decline

    Recall we used to compare it to a pub. You had the regulars, with their cranky obsessions and ancient gossip, you had frequent visitors - sometimes drunk, sometimes high, often amusing - you had passers by with brilliant new stories or total bewilderment. Crucially you had a core of really intelligent open minded people gathered round the bar

    It seems to me that open minded core has gone. Now PB resembles a tedious HR meeting dominated by fucking boring lawyers and accountants and IT nerds who insist they are right, won’t allow dissent, and either chase away interesting people or bore everyone else

    The wokeness prevails, there is no intellectual curiosity, no surprising new views from that guy on the corner by the slot machine

    The only reason I am still here is because i have invested 15 years of conversation in this place and it will be a large wrench to leave, and I am particularly reliant on it out here in Phnom Penh

    I will leave it as soon as I can
    I think reflects the broader politics.
    Nobody believes in the Brexit fairy anymore, the idea of supporting the Tories is risible, and Starmer is about to offer the blandest prospectus ever put to the British public. Even the Lib Dems have nothing to say.

    The world is pivoting, the kaleidoscope has been shaken, but Britain has given up. For the moment, at least.

    Yes. The wider world is definitely part of it. Politics is more polarised so pb is part of that

    Also everyone here is just older and crankier perhaps. But fuck knows why I have to respect these geriatric twats - I still travel the world and do stuff - I stay open minded. Pb does not

    Hey ho

    If I’m still here in a year please please please tease me mercilessly until I am shamed into going. I need to find a replacement forum - it’s not easy. Pb of old
    was special

    I am looking hard
    Do you not think you've played a large part in driving away people who disagree with you?
    Absolutely not. I love a good argument. That’s why I come here. Yes I can be bruising but I always respect someone who articulately disagrees, and I never whine if someone is nasty

    What’s ruined the site is the dead hand of orthodoxy. Plus you’re all a bunch of fucking lawyers and accountants and business dudes and retired IT geeks. Twats

    We desperately need more arty types. Poets. Violinists. Dancers. Opera singers. Anyone creative, anyone, literally anyone. Anyone!

    But no
    Arty types can fuck off they have nothing whatsoever to add to any conversation
    Adding nothing whatsoever to any conversation is a high barrier for exclusion.
    Where is Leon, anyway?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Harper said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Halfway through tucker Putin


    Interim verdict: Putin looks healthy enough. Quite on top of his brief. Remember when we were told he was dying?

    Also: not mad. Obsessive. Autocratic. But not insane. Not immediately off putting. Wily. Cunning. Duplicitous

    I sense he really doesn’t want to invade and conquer Eastern Europe. But he really does want a large chunk of Ukraine. And he is genuinely aggrieved about NATO expansion - it’s not a pretext

    So a dangerous man but not a Hitler

    Interim verdict on tucker: doing the best he can. His main achievement is getting the interview in the first place - creating the envy of all his peers

    He also asks some quite devious questions that make Putin look a little credulous or clumsy but he does it in a way that Putin doesn’t notice

    It is not 120 minutes of sycophancy. But I am only halfway through

    Yet still 50 minutes longer than most people with their heads actually screwed on have managed.

    Some of us still remember the days when you were telling us all that Putin would be our saviour.

    Another one that didn’t surprise on the upside.
    It it a constant source of amazement to me that your only friend is a dog, given the ready wit, personal charm and that sly, playful charisma you regularly exhibit on this site
    You are wasted on this site Leon. Your charm charisma and intelligence is too much for the regulars to handle.
    I know. I sometimes feel I am more approached in Sverdlovsk than Swindon

    A prophet without honour etc
    What's happened to you, Leon? Are you OK?
    Cambodia. Doing good professional knapping but bereft of social life - a self inflicted monastic solitude which I now possibly regret. Because it makes me reliant on PB for discourse at a time when PB has turned to shit

    No wonder so many have fled the site

    But I will end up with some excellent flints - I think - and it will all be worth it. Head down. Do the graft

    Good work SHOULD be hard
    Is PB not just in a lull waiting for some significant political betting to start? The general election could be mere weeks away and the US election is definitely in November. Calm before the storm (and the opportunity to fleece some less savvy punters on the markets?)
    No. Absolutely no

    It is in a terrible decline

    Recall we used to compare it to a pub. You had the regulars, with their cranky obsessions and ancient gossip, you had frequent visitors - sometimes drunk, sometimes high, often amusing - you had passers by with brilliant new stories or total bewilderment. Crucially you had a core of really intelligent open minded people gathered round the bar

    It seems to me that open minded core has gone. Now PB resembles a tedious HR meeting dominated by fucking boring lawyers and accountants and IT nerds who insist they are right, won’t allow dissent, and either chase away interesting people or bore everyone else

    The wokeness prevails, there is no intellectual curiosity, no surprising new views from that guy on the corner by the slot machine

    The only reason I am still here is because i have invested 15 years of conversation in this place and it will be a large wrench to leave, and I am particularly reliant on it out here in Phnom Penh

    I will leave it as soon as I can
    I think reflects the broader politics.
    Nobody believes in the Brexit fairy anymore, the idea of supporting the Tories is risible, and Starmer is about to offer the blandest prospectus ever put to the British public. Even the Lib Dems have nothing to say.

    The world is pivoting, the kaleidoscope has been shaken, but Britain has given up. For the moment, at least.

    Yes. The wider world is definitely part of it. Politics is more polarised so pb is part of that

    Also everyone here is just older and crankier perhaps. But fuck knows why I have to respect these geriatric twats - I still travel the world and do stuff - I stay open minded. Pb does not

    Hey ho

    If I’m still here in a year please please please tease me mercilessly until I am shamed into going. I need to find a replacement forum - it’s not easy. Pb of old
    was special

    I am looking hard
    Do you not think you've played a large part in driving away people who disagree with you?
    Absolutely not. I love a good argument. That’s why I come here. Yes I can be bruising but I always respect someone who articulately disagrees, and I never whine if someone is nasty

    What’s ruined the site is the dead hand of orthodoxy. Plus you’re all a bunch of fucking lawyers and accountants and business dudes and retired IT geeks. Twats

    We desperately need more arty types. Poets. Violinists. Dancers. Opera singers. Anyone creative, anyone, literally anyone. Anyone!

    But no
    Arty types can fuck off they have nothing whatsoever to add to any conversation
    Adding nothing whatsoever to any conversation is a high barrier for exclusion.
    Sorry but in leons case its absolutely true....he comments on crap like large language models and heralds them as ai when he has absolutely no clue....why because he is an arty type. Sorry he and they should shut up on issues they have no idea about. I don't comment on art he shouldn't comment on anything vaguely connected to science
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,953
    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    She has 280 million followers on Instagram. Putting musical influence to one side, she is the Beatles for Millennials.
    I'm embarrassed to admit that I could not name a single one of her songs. Just completely passed me by I'm afraid. Obviously the fault is mine.
    She has the odd catchy number. Shake It Off. It’s not Paige and Plant. But her musicality is not what this is about. It’s her cross aisle appeal, even across generations.
    I just watched the video for Shake it off. I think the word I would use is....banal. But it has had 3.4bn, yes billion views on Youtube so I am clearly wrong.
    Wait till you check out Tucker’s content..
  • HarperHarper Posts: 197
    ohnotnow said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Harper said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Halfway through tucker Putin


    Interim verdict: Putin looks healthy enough. Quite on top of his brief. Remember when we were told he was dying?

    Also: not mad. Obsessive. Autocratic. But not insane. Not immediately off putting. Wily. Cunning. Duplicitous

    I sense he really doesn’t want to invade and conquer Eastern Europe. But he really does want a large chunk of Ukraine. And he is genuinely aggrieved about NATO expansion - it’s not a pretext

    So a dangerous man but not a Hitler

    Interim verdict on tucker: doing the best he can. His main achievement is getting the interview in the first place - creating the envy of all his peers

    He also asks some quite devious questions that make Putin look a little credulous or clumsy but he does it in a way that Putin doesn’t notice

    It is not 120 minutes of sycophancy. But I am only halfway through

    Yet still 50 minutes longer than most people with their heads actually screwed on have managed.

    Some of us still remember the days when you were telling us all that Putin would be our saviour.

    Another one that didn’t surprise on the upside.
    It it a constant source of amazement to me that your only friend is a dog, given the ready wit, personal charm and that sly, playful charisma you regularly exhibit on this site
    You are wasted on this site Leon. Your charm charisma and intelligence is too much for the regulars to handle.
    I know. I sometimes feel I am more approached in Sverdlovsk than Swindon

    A prophet without honour etc
    What's happened to you, Leon? Are you OK?
    Cambodia. Doing good professional knapping but bereft of social life - a self inflicted monastic solitude which I now possibly regret. Because it makes me reliant on PB for discourse at a time when PB has turned to shit

    No wonder so many have fled the site

    But I will end up with some excellent flints - I think - and it will all be worth it. Head down. Do the graft

    Good work SHOULD be hard
    Is PB not just in a lull waiting for some significant political betting to start? The general election could be mere weeks away and the US election is definitely in November. Calm before the storm (and the opportunity to fleece some less savvy punters on the markets?)
    No. Absolutely no

    It is in a terrible decline

    Recall we used to compare it to a pub. You had the regulars, with their cranky obsessions and ancient gossip, you had frequent visitors - sometimes drunk, sometimes high, often amusing - you had passers by with brilliant new stories or total bewilderment. Crucially you had a core of really intelligent open minded people gathered round the bar

    It seems to me that open minded core has gone. Now PB resembles a tedious HR meeting dominated by fucking boring lawyers and accountants and IT nerds who insist they are right, won’t allow dissent, and either chase away interesting people or bore everyone else

    The wokeness prevails, there is no intellectual curiosity, no surprising new views from that guy on the corner by the slot machine

    The only reason I am still here is because i have invested 15 years of conversation in this place and it will be a large wrench to leave, and I am particularly reliant on it out here in Phnom Penh

    I will leave it as soon as I can
    I think reflects the broader politics.
    Nobody believes in the Brexit fairy anymore, the idea of supporting the Tories is risible, and Starmer is about to offer the blandest prospectus ever put to the British public. Even the Lib Dems have nothing to say.

    The world is pivoting, the kaleidoscope has been shaken, but Britain has given up. For the moment, at least.

    Yes. The wider world is definitely part of it. Politics is more polarised so pb is part of that

    Also everyone here is just older and crankier perhaps. But fuck knows why I have to respect these geriatric twats - I still travel the world and do stuff - I stay open minded. Pb does not

    Hey ho

    If I’m still here in a year please please please tease me mercilessly until I am shamed into going. I need to find a replacement forum - it’s not easy. Pb of old
    was special

    I am looking hard
    Do you not think you've played a large part in driving away people who disagree with you?
    Absolutely not. I love a good argument. That’s why I come here. Yes I can be bruising but I always respect someone who articulately disagrees, and I never whine if someone is nasty

    What’s ruined the site is the dead hand of orthodoxy. Plus you’re all a bunch of fucking lawyers and accountants and business dudes and retired IT geeks. Twats

    We desperately need more arty types. Poets. Violinists. Dancers. Opera singers. Anyone creative, anyone, literally anyone. Anyone!

    But no
    Arty types can fuck off they have nothing whatsoever to add to any conversation
    Adding nothing whatsoever to any conversation is a high barrier for exclusion.
    Where is Leon, anyway?
    Either asleep or cavorting with a ladyboy doing various unspeakable things,
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,897
    'British countryside is a ‘racist and colonial’ white space, wildlife charities claim'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/07/british-countryside-racist-white-space-charities-claim/
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    I think Shake It Off is hugely catchy.
    Without pretending I’m hugely familiar with Ms Swift’s “deep cuts”, the rest leaves me cold.

    To go back a demi-generation, even Britney or Gaga gave us memorable pop anthems.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    BORIS JOHNSON: Putin's interview with his fawning stooge Tucker Carlson was straight out of Hitler's playbook. I pray Americans see through this unholy charade

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-13066311/BORIS-JOHNSON-Putin-Tucker-Carlson-interview-stooge-Hitler-charade.html

    While I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment, I find it difficult to believe that Bozo prays.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,953
    ohnotnow said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    Wait: who is saying what about Taylor Swift?

    She's a popstar. Lots of people love her. But popstars have never moved votes. If they did, there wouldn't have been a right wing government elected in the developed world in fifty years.
    Lulu campaigned for Thatcher in 1979.

    image
    Not to mention Jimmy Saville. Not all celeb's are lefties. Or indeed paedophiles.

    (For avoidance of doubt - I am sure Lulu is not a paedo - if anything I suspect she skews older man as she has taste. #olderman #available)
    Shagged a Take That in their youth I believe, so not necessarily
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779
    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    Wait: who is saying what about Taylor Swift?

    She's a popstar. Lots of people love her. But popstars have never moved votes. If they did, there wouldn't have been a right wing government elected in the developed world in fifty years.
    Her saying “vote for Biden” doesn’t do much, especially under the circumstances. But I think she’s savvy enough that with the right team, she’d easily defeat such a poor candidate as Trump. And you can’t say that about many of the party hopefuls on either side of the aisle.
    'Oprah and Dolly Parton' - the dream ticket. Can you imagine the bloodbath if Trump went up against them in a TV debate?

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,607
    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    She has 280 million followers on Instagram. Putting musical influence to one side, she is the Beatles for Millennials.
    I'm embarrassed to admit that I could not name a single one of her songs. Just completely passed me by I'm afraid. Obviously the fault is mine.
    She has the odd catchy number. Shake It Off. It’s not Paige and Plant. But her musicality is not what this is about. It’s her cross aisle appeal, even across generations.
    I just watched the video for Shake it off. I think the word I would use is....banal. But it has had 3.4bn, yes billion views on Youtube so I am clearly wrong.
    Some better introductions:

    Anti-Hero: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1kbLwvqugk

    Blank Space: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-ORhEE9VVg
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    HYUFD said:

    'British countryside is a ‘racist and colonial’ white space, wildlife charities claim'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/07/british-countryside-racist-white-space-charities-claim/

    It’s in the Telegraph so it’s probably bullshit, but I think the tide is going out on this gibberish.

    Clearly I need to fill the void left by @Casino_Royale but it’s incredibly tedious to keep hearing that everyone everywhere is racist and colonial all at once, especially from charities ostensibly set up to protect our national patrimony.
  • HarperHarper Posts: 197

    BORIS JOHNSON: Putin's interview with his fawning stooge Tucker Carlson was straight out of Hitler's playbook. I pray Americans see through this unholy charade

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-13066311/BORIS-JOHNSON-Putin-Tucker-Carlson-interview-stooge-Hitler-charade.html

    While I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment, I find it difficult to believe that Bozo prays.
    So why does he support Trump. Sorry its too much to expect consistency from bojo.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    There is a scenario where you ship out all your militar
    Harper said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    So, who have we got defending Putin?

    Williamglenn and a Russian bot called Harper... anyone else?

    There are some on the right in the UK that are so far down the culture war rabbit hole that getting one over Biden and the Libs is more important than the defence of Ukraine and vital British security and defence interests.

    I am probably in a 'culture war rabbit hole', but would nonetheless comment as follows:

    The discussion about Ukraine on PB is hopeless. The consensus is that Putin is Hitler and we are in the run up to the second world war again, so Russia has to be stopped by shipping an unlimited amount of military hardware there, at any cost. And any other opinion is giving in to fascism.

    Such comments are useful mainly as evidence of the effectiveness of propaganda, they offer no real insight in to the situation.



    Oh, I think Ukraine is very simple.

    A democratic, friendly country has been invaded.

    We do not have a military alliance with that country, so clearly should not be sending people.

    But we absolutely should offer all assistance short of fighting.

    Do you have a different opinion?
    Interesting argument as far as it goes but the problem is the differential in manpower. Russia has much more of it so can afford more losses. And whilst Ukraine may not have lost as many troops as Russia they have still lost a huge number. Regardless of weapons sent you still need the manpower. Now the way to make up this manpower differential would be to send in NATO troops. That would likely near guarantee victory short of a nuclear conflagaration. But you are unwilling to do this. Why?
    @rcs1000
    There is a possible scenario where the west could support Ukraine with unlimited amounts of weapons, military hardware etc and still lose because of the manpower problem. In that scenario you would question whether sending unlimited weapons etc to Ukraine was the right thing to do, even though it 'feels' right at the moment.

    My concern is that the Ukraine conflict could ultimately act as a way of burning through vast amounts of ammunition, weapons, military hardware; with the ultimate outcome of the war (ie victory for Russia) being the same. This scenario could diminish public support and appetite to go in to these conflicts, reduce public support for NATO (which obligates us to defend other eastern european countries) - and the outcome being that is more difficult to fight the next war with Russia.

    In this context, supporting Ukraine the way we have and continue to do so may actually be working to Russia's advantage, and this may actually be Putin's calculation.

    I fear that the conflict with Russia will be a very long one that will play out over many decades, and this Ukraine conflict may just be the opening skirmish in it.



  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    edited February 9
    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    She has 280 million followers on Instagram. Putting musical influence to one side, she is the Beatles for Millennials.
    I'm embarrassed to admit that I could not name a single one of her songs. Just completely passed me by I'm afraid. Obviously the fault is mine.
    She does a lot of very well written atmospheric “pop”, earlier with her originaly more country roots, helped by a very good team of writers including Ed Sheeran at times.

    She’s been the soundtrack to millions of girls lives for a long time but also to chaps who’ve had to listen along and then found guilty pleasures!

    Maybe to give you a taster listen to these three from different periods.

    Country influence: https://youtu.be/8xg3vE8Ie_E?si=j8QFWgAk9jhDFhCs Love Story

    Power pop: https://youtu.be/-CmadmM5cOk?si=jwnq6dQzHKG2h9vy Syle

    Last album last year: https://youtu.be/b1kbLwvqugk?si=i0npM26SnEDto3ki Antihero


    Now I find the latter two more tolerable but she’s a massive seller and globally super popular and makes music that works in a coffee shop, a bar, the car or background so worth being aware of. She’ll never be The Cure but nobody will reach those heights.


  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    MJW said:

    Harper said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    Madonna in her prime was bigger with a wider fan base.
    Was she though? Swift is absolutely huge in a way that transcends pop. Her tour has broken every record going. I'm not sure Madonna could have re-recorded her back catalogue and topped the charts with albums that were old material.

    However, even the biggest stars have less of a footprint than we might assume. Swift was the biggest-selling artist of last year by a mile (she has managed this 5 times, Madonna 0 btw) - with an album she originally released a decade ago. But sold around 2 million copies - a tonne in music these days, but a drop in the ocean among an electorate that runs into the hundreds of millions.

    This isn't unusual. To become a huge, global star you only need a relatively small percentage of the population to love you. After all there are a lot of 60 or 70 year olds who prefer the music of their youth.
    Ah hem.

    No-one buys albums anymore, so I'm not sure that's a great metric.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,703
    "Who does he f*cking think he is?"

    Future PM of UK.

    I bet "Vic" regrets that outburst.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/09/keir-starmer-victoria-british-vogue-labour-leader/
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870

    HYUFD said:

    'British countryside is a ‘racist and colonial’ white space, wildlife charities claim'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/07/british-countryside-racist-white-space-charities-claim/

    It’s in the Telegraph so it’s probably bullshit, but I think the tide is going out on this gibberish.

    Clearly I need to fill the void left by @Casino_Royale but it’s incredibly tedious to keep hearing that everyone everywhere is racist and colonial all at once, especially from charities ostensibly set up to protect our national patrimony.
    I suspect they are assuming that by going this is the percentage of ethnic people in the uk, rural areas have less than that percentage so it must be racist and colonial....admittedly not read the report as behind the telegraph paywall but sort of assuming its along those lines
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    edited February 9
    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    She has 280 million followers on Instagram. Putting musical influence to one side, she is the Beatles for Millennials.
    I'm embarrassed to admit that I could not name a single one of her songs. Just completely passed me by I'm afraid. Obviously the fault is mine.
    She has the odd catchy number. Shake It Off. It’s not Paige and Plant. But her musicality is not what this is about. It’s her cross aisle appeal, even across generations.
    I just watched the video for Shake it off. I think the word I would use is....banal. But it has had 3.4bn, yes billion views on Youtube so I am clearly wrong.
    "Shake, shake, shake, shake, shake / Shake it off / Shake it off"

    Not exactly the most edifying lyrics ever written, to be sure. But it is catchy. And, a decade later, it's still played for about 7 hours a day by every commercial radio station in the world. On top of all those Spotify plays and Youtube views.

    And if you did genuinely hear it for the first time today, I'd be willing to bet that you'll hum it to yourself at least once tomorrow.

    She does have cultural clout, like no other artist this century. And her fanbase is extraordinarily well-organised. I'm with Moonshine on this - she could walk the election if she wanted to

    (...but why would she?)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,802
    AlsoLei said:

    Chris said:

    BBC:
    Rishi Sunak paid UK tax of £508,308 on earnings of just over £2.2m last year, according to his latest tax summary.
    The document, published by Downing Street, showed the prime minister paid £163,364 in tax on a total income of £432,884.
    He also paid £359,240 in tax on around £1.8m in capital gains from a US-based investment fund.


    ?

    ?

    ?

    ?

    So an effective tax rate of 38% on earned income, and 20% on unearned income.

    That's one of our country's major problems right there.
    Exactly right. Our tax system is ridiculously skewed to taxing what ordinary people earn and lets the well off with capital off far too lightly. My views on someone who earns a reasonable amount but has no capital are, of course, completely impartial in this.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,241
    Chris said:

    BBC:
    Rishi Sunak paid UK tax of £508,308 on earnings of just over £2.2m last year, according to his latest tax summary.
    The document, published by Downing Street, showed the prime minister paid £163,364 in tax on a total income of £432,884.
    He also paid £359,240 in tax on around £1.8m in capital gains from a US-based investment fund.


    ?

    ?

    ?

    ?

    What’s your issue?

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Pagan2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    'British countryside is a ‘racist and colonial’ white space, wildlife charities claim'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/07/british-countryside-racist-white-space-charities-claim/

    It’s in the Telegraph so it’s probably bullshit, but I think the tide is going out on this gibberish.

    Clearly I need to fill the void left by @Casino_Royale but it’s incredibly tedious to keep hearing that everyone everywhere is racist and colonial all at once, especially from charities ostensibly set up to protect our national patrimony.
    I suspect they are assuming that by going this is the percentage of ethnic people in the uk, rural areas have less than that percentage so it must be racist and colonial....admittedly not read the report as behind the telegraph paywall but sort of assuming its along those lines
    That’s also my assumption.
    And if I’m right, it is what I said: gibberish.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779

    ohnotnow said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    Wait: who is saying what about Taylor Swift?

    She's a popstar. Lots of people love her. But popstars have never moved votes. If they did, there wouldn't have been a right wing government elected in the developed world in fifty years.
    Lulu campaigned for Thatcher in 1979.

    image
    Not to mention Jimmy Saville. Not all celeb's are lefties. Or indeed paedophiles.

    (For avoidance of doubt - I am sure Lulu is not a paedo - if anything I suspect she skews older man as she has taste. #olderman #available)
    Shagged a Take That in their youth I believe, so not necessarily
    Don't take away my last remaining dream.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,802
    boulay said:

    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    She has 280 million followers on Instagram. Putting musical influence to one side, she is the Beatles for Millennials.
    I'm embarrassed to admit that I could not name a single one of her songs. Just completely passed me by I'm afraid. Obviously the fault is mine.
    She does a lot of very well written atmospheric “pop”, earlier with her originaly more country roots, helped by a very good team of writers including Ed Sheeran at times.

    She’s been the soundtrack to millions of girls lives for a long time but also to chaps who’ve had to listen along and then found guilty pleasures!

    Maybe to give you a taster listen to these three from different periods.

    Country influence: https://youtu.be/8xg3vE8Ie_E?si=j8QFWgAk9jhDFhCs Love Story

    Power pop: https://youtu.be/-CmadmM5cOk?si=jwnq6dQzHKG2h9vy Syle

    Last album last year: https://youtu.be/b1kbLwvqugk?si=i0npM26SnEDto3ki Antihero


    Now I find the latter two more tolerable but she’s a massive seller and globally super popular and makes music that works in a coffee shop, a bar, the car or background so worth being aware of. She’ll never be The Cure but nobody will reach those heights.


    It's Friday and I'm in love.

    Brilliant song.
  • DavidL said:

    AlsoLei said:

    Chris said:

    BBC:
    Rishi Sunak paid UK tax of £508,308 on earnings of just over £2.2m last year, according to his latest tax summary.
    The document, published by Downing Street, showed the prime minister paid £163,364 in tax on a total income of £432,884.
    He also paid £359,240 in tax on around £1.8m in capital gains from a US-based investment fund.


    ?

    ?

    ?

    ?

    So an effective tax rate of 38% on earned income, and 20% on unearned income.

    That's one of our country's major problems right there.
    Exactly right. Our tax system is ridiculously skewed to taxing what ordinary people earn and lets the well off with capital off far too lightly. My views on someone who earns a reasonable amount but has no capital are, of course, completely impartial in this.
    Very well said, completely agreed.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    You'd think that if a bunch of middle aged blokes were going to spend a Friday evening chatting about Taylor Swift online, they'd choose a forum where more representative members of her fan base posted selfies.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    DavidL said:

    AlsoLei said:

    Chris said:

    BBC:
    Rishi Sunak paid UK tax of £508,308 on earnings of just over £2.2m last year, according to his latest tax summary.
    The document, published by Downing Street, showed the prime minister paid £163,364 in tax on a total income of £432,884.
    He also paid £359,240 in tax on around £1.8m in capital gains from a US-based investment fund.


    ?

    ?

    ?

    ?

    So an effective tax rate of 38% on earned income, and 20% on unearned income.

    That's one of our country's major problems right there.
    Exactly right. Our tax system is ridiculously skewed to taxing what ordinary people earn and lets the well off with capital off far too lightly. My views on someone who earns a reasonable amount but has no capital are, of course, completely impartial in this.
    Aligning rates between income and capital, and between employment and self employment, would hugely cut tax planning and save time and resources for HMRC.
  • You'd think that if a bunch of middle aged blokes were going to spend a Friday evening chatting about Taylor Swift online, they'd choose a forum where more representative members of her fan base posted selfies.

    Leon isn't online to be fair.
  • AlsoLei said:

    Harper said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    Madonna in her prime was bigger with a wider fan base.
    Sure, but... 50 years ago. Don't they let you have access to Youtube in Moscow?
    I know of Madonna, she’s been in films. But I had to Google Lu Lu.
    She was pretty awful - the Beeb's idea of 'hip'.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    DavidL said:

    boulay said:

    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    She has 280 million followers on Instagram. Putting musical influence to one side, she is the Beatles for Millennials.
    I'm embarrassed to admit that I could not name a single one of her songs. Just completely passed me by I'm afraid. Obviously the fault is mine.
    She does a lot of very well written atmospheric “pop”, earlier with her originaly more country roots, helped by a very good team of writers including Ed Sheeran at times.

    She’s been the soundtrack to millions of girls lives for a long time but also to chaps who’ve had to listen along and then found guilty pleasures!

    Maybe to give you a taster listen to these three from different periods.

    Country influence: https://youtu.be/8xg3vE8Ie_E?si=j8QFWgAk9jhDFhCs Love Story

    Power pop: https://youtu.be/-CmadmM5cOk?si=jwnq6dQzHKG2h9vy Syle

    Last album last year: https://youtu.be/b1kbLwvqugk?si=i0npM26SnEDto3ki Antihero


    Now I find the latter two more tolerable but she’s a massive seller and globally super popular and makes music that works in a coffee shop, a bar, the car or background so worth being aware of. She’ll never be The Cure but nobody will reach those heights.


    It's Friday and I'm in love.

    Brilliant song.
    Hmmm. Not one of my favourites as too happy! Disintegration is my favourite album in the world followed by the Waterboys Fisherman’s Blues then Darklands by Jesus and Mary Chain. Weirdly all discovered when I was about 13.
  • TimS said:

    DavidL said:

    AlsoLei said:

    Chris said:

    BBC:
    Rishi Sunak paid UK tax of £508,308 on earnings of just over £2.2m last year, according to his latest tax summary.
    The document, published by Downing Street, showed the prime minister paid £163,364 in tax on a total income of £432,884.
    He also paid £359,240 in tax on around £1.8m in capital gains from a US-based investment fund.


    ?

    ?

    ?

    ?

    So an effective tax rate of 38% on earned income, and 20% on unearned income.

    That's one of our country's major problems right there.
    Exactly right. Our tax system is ridiculously skewed to taxing what ordinary people earn and lets the well off with capital off far too lightly. My views on someone who earns a reasonable amount but has no capital are, of course, completely impartial in this.
    Aligning rates between income and capital, and between employment and self employment, would hugely cut tax planning and save time and resources for HMRC.
    And between income and inheritance etc

    Whatever you receive, however you receive it, should be taxed the same rate - earnings should never be taxed more than anything else.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,938
    MJW said:

    Harper said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    Madonna in her prime was bigger with a wider fan base.
    Was she though? Swift is absolutely huge in a way that transcends pop. Her tour has broken every record going. I'm not sure Madonna could have re-recorded her back catalogue and topped the charts with albums that were old material.

    However, even the biggest stars have less of a footprint than we might assume. Swift was the biggest-selling artist of last year by a mile (she has managed this 5 times, Madonna 0 btw) - with an album she originally released a decade ago. But sold around 2 million copies - a tonne in music these days, but a drop in the ocean among an electorate that runs into the hundreds of millions.

    This isn't unusual. To become a huge, global star you only need a relatively small percentage of the population to love you. After all there are a lot of 60 or 70 year olds who prefer the music of their youth.
    Taylor Swift is the McDonalds of music. Ubiquitous, everywhere, bland, mass-market, and inexplicably loved by millions. Ultimately unfulfilling and forgettable. But hey, if McDonalds can conquer the world, then Taylor Swift can surely be president.

    I just fail to see how that's a good thing, in either case. What's next, Chris Martin for PM with James Blunt as Foreign Secretary?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,802

    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    She has 280 million followers on Instagram. Putting musical influence to one side, she is the Beatles for Millennials.
    I'm embarrassed to admit that I could not name a single one of her songs. Just completely passed me by I'm afraid. Obviously the fault is mine.
    She has the odd catchy number. Shake It Off. It’s not Paige and Plant. But her musicality is not what this is about. It’s her cross aisle appeal, even across generations.
    I just watched the video for Shake it off. I think the word I would use is....banal. But it has had 3.4bn, yes billion views on Youtube so I am clearly wrong.
    Some better introductions:

    Anti-Hero: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1kbLwvqugk

    Blank Space: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-ORhEE9VVg
    Blank Space makes Shake it off look like late Lennon/McCartney. I mean jeez. I think that is enough for one night, possibly a decade.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    kyf_100 said:

    MJW said:

    Harper said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    Madonna in her prime was bigger with a wider fan base.
    Was she though? Swift is absolutely huge in a way that transcends pop. Her tour has broken every record going. I'm not sure Madonna could have re-recorded her back catalogue and topped the charts with albums that were old material.

    However, even the biggest stars have less of a footprint than we might assume. Swift was the biggest-selling artist of last year by a mile (she has managed this 5 times, Madonna 0 btw) - with an album she originally released a decade ago. But sold around 2 million copies - a tonne in music these days, but a drop in the ocean among an electorate that runs into the hundreds of millions.

    This isn't unusual. To become a huge, global star you only need a relatively small percentage of the population to love you. After all there are a lot of 60 or 70 year olds who prefer the music of their youth.
    Taylor Swift is the McDonalds of music. Ubiquitous, everywhere, bland, mass-market, and inexplicably loved by millions. Ultimately unfulfilling and forgettable. But hey, if McDonalds can conquer the world, then Taylor Swift can surely be president.

    I just fail to see how that's a good thing, in either case. What's next, Chris Martin for PM with James Blunt as Foreign Secretary?
    Blunt lives up to his name and would be great in the diplomatic game.

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    Wait: who is saying what about Taylor Swift?

    She's a popstar. Lots of people love her. But popstars have never moved votes. If they did, there wouldn't have been a right wing government elected in the developed world in fifty years.
    Lulu campaigned for Thatcher in 1979.

    image
    I could be wrong on this, but I think (despite their wealth and their frequent tax dodging), rock stars tend to swing left politically.

    Lulu's support of Mrs Thatcher in 1979 does not exactly contradict this.
    Where you say you could be wrong on it, maybe there’s a misconception where the truth surprises, or maybe wealth and tax dodging changes outlook on the world?

    Rod Stewart Conservative.
    Ginger Spice.
    Phil Collins.
    Bill Wyman.
    Shirley Bassey.
    Eric Clapton.
    Brian Ferry.
    Tony Hadley.
    Gary Barlow.
    Craig David.
    The GoCompare man

    Elvis Presley Republican A huh huh
    50 cent (sold Bush in his candy shop)
    Kid Rock
    Meat Loaf
    Gene Simmons
    Johnny Ramone
    Mike Love
    Alice Cooper
    In fact there’s a Quora that asks Why are almost all great rock singers Republicans? 🎸
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    By the way if you’d like I can talk about how JK Rowling is the equivalent British candidate that would sweep all before her if she ran for PM.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    darkage said:

    There is a scenario where you ship out all your militar

    Harper said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    So, who have we got defending Putin?

    Williamglenn and a Russian bot called Harper... anyone else?

    There are some on the right in the UK that are so far down the culture war rabbit hole that getting one over Biden and the Libs is more important than the defence of Ukraine and vital British security and defence interests.

    I am probably in a 'culture war rabbit hole', but would nonetheless comment as follows:

    The discussion about Ukraine on PB is hopeless. The consensus is that Putin is Hitler and we are in the run up to the second world war again, so Russia has to be stopped by shipping an unlimited amount of military hardware there, at any cost. And any other opinion is giving in to fascism.

    Such comments are useful mainly as evidence of the effectiveness of propaganda, they offer no real insight in to the situation.



    Oh, I think Ukraine is very simple.

    A democratic, friendly country has been invaded.

    We do not have a military alliance with that country, so clearly should not be sending people.

    But we absolutely should offer all assistance short of fighting.

    Do you have a different opinion?
    Interesting argument as far as it goes but the problem is the differential in manpower. Russia has much more of it so can afford more losses. And whilst Ukraine may not have lost as many troops as Russia they have still lost a huge number. Regardless of weapons sent you still need the manpower. Now the way to make up this manpower differential would be to send in NATO troops. That would likely near guarantee victory short of a nuclear conflagaration. But you are unwilling to do this. Why?
    @rcs1000
    There is a possible scenario where the west could support Ukraine with unlimited amounts of weapons, military hardware etc and still lose because of the manpower problem. In that scenario you would question whether sending unlimited weapons etc to Ukraine was the right thing to do, even though it 'feels' right at the moment.

    My concern is that the Ukraine conflict could ultimately act as a way of burning through vast amounts of ammunition, weapons, military hardware; with the ultimate outcome of the war (ie victory for Russia) being the same. This scenario could diminish public support and appetite to go in to these conflicts, reduce public support for NATO (which obligates us to defend other eastern european countries) - and the outcome being that is more difficult to fight the next war with Russia.

    In this context, supporting Ukraine the way we have and continue to do so may actually be working to Russia's advantage, and this may actually be Putin's calculation.

    I fear that the conflict with Russia will be a very long one that will play out over many decades, and this Ukraine conflict may just be the opening skirmish in it.



    The alternative being that we guarantee their failure?

    Because that's what you're saying. You're saying leave the Ukrainians at the mercy of the Russians, because we might otherwise regret having spent some money.

    And we pay a price for that too. It means, for example, that there will be a flow of refugees into Western Europe (and the UK). It means our ability to deter in future will be that little bit more constrained, because this time we blinked.

    This isn't just about morality, it is also about what is best for us. And it is indisputably best for us that aggression is checked.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,728
    rcs1000 said:

    MJW said:

    Harper said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    Madonna in her prime was bigger with a wider fan base.
    Was she though? Swift is absolutely huge in a way that transcends pop. Her tour has broken every record going. I'm not sure Madonna could have re-recorded her back catalogue and topped the charts with albums that were old material.

    However, even the biggest stars have less of a footprint than we might assume. Swift was the biggest-selling artist of last year by a mile (she has managed this 5 times, Madonna 0 btw) - with an album she originally released a decade ago. But sold around 2 million copies - a tonne in music these days, but a drop in the ocean among an electorate that runs into the hundreds of millions.

    This isn't unusual. To become a huge, global star you only need a relatively small percentage of the population to love you. After all there are a lot of 60 or 70 year olds who prefer the music of their youth.
    Ah hem.

    No-one buys albums anymore, so I'm not sure that's a great metric.
    Streams are generally counted in sales for chart purposes in various ways. But even in the glory days of the late 90s - when CDs made sent sales rocketing, the top sales were around 9 million - a lot, sure, but the same point applies. A small fraction of the electorate.

    And it is a fairly good way of judging who is a committed fan - as it shows who has parted with cash to support an artist.

    Anyway, the point is Swift is a generational megastar - she's now bigger than ever when at 34, she's at an age when most popstars are winding down a bit or getting experimental. But even that kind of fame - and she breaks pretty much every record she wants to - doesn't necessarily translate to votes as even the biggest stars' fanbases are small compared to the entire adult population.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,607
    moonshine said:

    By the way if you’d like I can talk about how JK Rowling is the equivalent British candidate that would sweep all before her if she ran for PM.

    I've argued before that she's the most plausible British Trump: an iconic level of fame, independently wealthy and a mastery of social media.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129

    moonshine said:

    By the way if you’d like I can talk about how JK Rowling is the equivalent British candidate that would sweep all before her if she ran for PM.

    I've argued before that she's the most plausible British Trump: an iconic level of fame, independently wealthy and a mastery of social media.
    And a disdain for democratic norms?

  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457

    HYUFD said:

    'British countryside is a ‘racist and colonial’ white space, wildlife charities claim'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/07/british-countryside-racist-white-space-charities-claim/

    It’s in the Telegraph so it’s probably bullshit, but I think the tide is going out on this gibberish.

    Clearly I need to fill the void left by @Casino_Royale but it’s incredibly tedious to keep hearing that everyone everywhere is racist and colonial all at once, especially from charities ostensibly set up to protect our national patrimony.
    Or, to be slightly more cynical: many (or perhaps even most) of the previous century's "enjoying the countryside" tropes have indeed been based on assumptions and practices that are a wee bit exclusionary and don't fit particularly well with the modern world. And haven't done for donkey's years.

    And those organisations which are built around those tropes have been in a safe, sleepy coma for decades - but now, nearing death, have awakened with a jolt and are desperately trying to get ahead of the cultural shifts that they've been so comfortably ignoring for 70-odd years.

    And of course they're being a bit heavy-handed and often going a bit overboard in doing so. Change happens in fits and starts, but the cultural conservatives - by trying to hold back the tide - make those dislocations much larger than they need to be.

    (lots of mixed metaphors there - sorry!)
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    This thread has failed to win Grammy for best album.

    Unlike...
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    MJW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MJW said:

    Harper said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    Madonna in her prime was bigger with a wider fan base.
    Was she though? Swift is absolutely huge in a way that transcends pop. Her tour has broken every record going. I'm not sure Madonna could have re-recorded her back catalogue and topped the charts with albums that were old material.

    However, even the biggest stars have less of a footprint than we might assume. Swift was the biggest-selling artist of last year by a mile (she has managed this 5 times, Madonna 0 btw) - with an album she originally released a decade ago. But sold around 2 million copies - a tonne in music these days, but a drop in the ocean among an electorate that runs into the hundreds of millions.

    This isn't unusual. To become a huge, global star you only need a relatively small percentage of the population to love you. After all there are a lot of 60 or 70 year olds who prefer the music of their youth.
    Ah hem.

    No-one buys albums anymore, so I'm not sure that's a great metric.
    Streams are generally counted in sales for chart purposes in various ways. But even in the glory days of the late 90s - when CDs made sent sales rocketing, the top sales were around 9 million - a lot, sure, but the same point applies. A small fraction of the electorate.

    And it is a fairly good way of judging who is a committed fan - as it shows who has parted with cash to support an artist.

    Anyway, the point is Swift is a generational megastar - she's now bigger than ever when at 34, she's at an age when most popstars are winding down a bit or getting experimental. But even that kind of fame - and she breaks pretty much every record she wants to - doesn't necessarily translate to votes as even the biggest stars' fanbases are small compared to the entire adult population.
    I still think @kyf_100 has it right: she’s inherently pap.

    One interesting thing about her though is that she’s more attractive at 34 than she was at 24.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129

    New Thread

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    kyf_100 said:

    MJW said:

    Harper said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    Madonna in her prime was bigger with a wider fan base.
    Was she though? Swift is absolutely huge in a way that transcends pop. Her tour has broken every record going. I'm not sure Madonna could have re-recorded her back catalogue and topped the charts with albums that were old material.

    However, even the biggest stars have less of a footprint than we might assume. Swift was the biggest-selling artist of last year by a mile (she has managed this 5 times, Madonna 0 btw) - with an album she originally released a decade ago. But sold around 2 million copies - a tonne in music these days, but a drop in the ocean among an electorate that runs into the hundreds of millions.

    This isn't unusual. To become a huge, global star you only need a relatively small percentage of the population to love you. After all there are a lot of 60 or 70 year olds who prefer the music of their youth.
    Taylor Swift is the McDonalds of music. Ubiquitous, everywhere, bland, mass-market, and inexplicably loved by millions. Ultimately unfulfilling and forgettable. But hey, if McDonalds can conquer the world, then Taylor Swift can surely be president.

    I just fail to see how that's a good thing, in either case. What's next, Chris Martin for PM with James Blunt as Foreign Secretary?
    I’m not a Swifty. To me it sounds a bit bland, and preppy. Maybe because I’m in second half of twenties and music fads are for teens? Or maybe I’m different, as I listened to seventies and sixties since I entered early teens, and as we went round the table everyone else was listening to chart music and I wasn’t.

    In fact today I was listening to Joan Armatrading who I haven’t listened to before, after a track on desert island discs

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7147pAjGbpU&list=PLAFB20OoL0ea6dCv1Qo3G6tihHBTa4usg

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,897
    AlsoLei said:

    HYUFD said:

    'British countryside is a ‘racist and colonial’ white space, wildlife charities claim'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/07/british-countryside-racist-white-space-charities-claim/

    It’s in the Telegraph so it’s probably bullshit, but I think the tide is going out on this gibberish.

    Clearly I need to fill the void left by @Casino_Royale but it’s incredibly tedious to keep hearing that everyone everywhere is racist and colonial all at once, especially from charities ostensibly set up to protect our national patrimony.
    Or, to be slightly more cynical: many (or perhaps even most) of the previous century's "enjoying the countryside" tropes have indeed been based on assumptions and practices that are a wee bit exclusionary and don't fit particularly well with the modern world. And haven't done for donkey's years.

    And those organisations which are built around those tropes have been in a safe, sleepy coma for decades - but now, nearing death, have awakened with a jolt and are desperately trying to get ahead of the cultural shifts that they've been so comfortably ignoring for 70-odd years.

    And of course they're being a bit heavy-handed and often going a bit overboard in doing so. Change happens in fits and starts, but the cultural conservatives - by trying to hold back the tide - make those dislocations much larger than they need to be.

    (lots of mixed metaphors there - sorry!)
    Most people in the countryside are community minded and better connected to each other than those in the cities.

    It is patronising wokeism from these charities
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    edited February 9
    moonshine said:

    By the way if you’d like I can talk about how JK Rowling is the equivalent British candidate that would sweep all before her if she ran for PM.

    Er. Have you ever read the Harry Potter books? Enid Blyton with more child abuse.

    I was the right age at the right time for them. And, er, there's a reason why I plumped for Gore Vidal instead.

    ETA: To be fair, I may not be entirely representative of my age group....
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,224
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Harper said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Halfway through tucker Putin


    Interim verdict: Putin looks healthy enough. Quite on top of his brief. Remember when we were told he was dying?

    Also: not mad. Obsessive. Autocratic. But not insane. Not immediately off putting. Wily. Cunning. Duplicitous

    I sense he really doesn’t want to invade and conquer Eastern Europe. But he really does want a large chunk of Ukraine. And he is genuinely aggrieved about NATO expansion - it’s not a pretext

    So a dangerous man but not a Hitler

    Interim verdict on tucker: doing the best he can. His main achievement is getting the interview in the first place - creating the envy of all his peers

    He also asks some quite devious questions that make Putin look a little credulous or clumsy but he does it in a way that Putin doesn’t notice

    It is not 120 minutes of sycophancy. But I am only halfway through

    Yet still 50 minutes longer than most people with their heads actually screwed on have managed.

    Some of us still remember the days when you were telling us all that Putin would be our saviour.

    Another one that didn’t surprise on the upside.
    It it a constant source of amazement to me that your only friend is a dog, given the ready wit, personal charm and that sly, playful charisma you regularly exhibit on this site
    You are wasted on this site Leon. Your charm charisma and intelligence is too much for the regulars to handle.
    I know. I sometimes feel I am more approached in Sverdlovsk than Swindon

    A prophet without honour etc
    What's happened to you, Leon? Are you OK?
    Cambodia. Doing good professional knapping but bereft of social life - a self inflicted monastic solitude which I now possibly regret. Because it makes me reliant on PB for discourse at a time when PB has turned to shit

    No wonder so many have fled the site

    But I will end up with some excellent flints - I think - and it will all be worth it. Head down. Do the graft

    Good work SHOULD be hard
    Is PB not just in a lull waiting for some significant political betting to start? The general election could be mere weeks away and the US election is definitely in November. Calm before the storm (and the opportunity to fleece some less savvy punters on the markets?)
    No. Absolutely no

    It is in a terrible decline

    Recall we used to compare it to a pub. You had the regulars, with their cranky obsessions and ancient gossip, you had frequent visitors - sometimes drunk, sometimes high, often amusing - you had passers by with brilliant new stories or total bewilderment. Crucially you had a core of really intelligent open minded people gathered round the bar

    It seems to me that open minded core has gone. Now PB resembles a tedious HR meeting dominated by fucking boring lawyers and accountants and IT nerds who insist they are right, won’t allow dissent, and either chase away interesting people or bore everyone else

    The wokeness prevails, there is no intellectual curiosity, no surprising new views from that guy on the corner by the slot machine

    The only reason I am still here is because i have invested 15 years of conversation in this place and it will be a large wrench to leave, and I am particularly reliant on it out here in Phnom Penh

    I will leave it as soon as I can
    I think reflects the broader politics.
    Nobody believes in the Brexit fairy anymore, the idea of supporting the Tories is risible, and Starmer is about to offer the blandest prospectus ever put to the British public. Even the Lib Dems have nothing to say.

    The world is pivoting, the kaleidoscope has been shaken, but Britain has given up. For the moment, at least.

    Yes. The wider world is definitely part of it. Politics is more polarised so pb is part of that

    Also everyone here is just older and crankier perhaps. But fuck knows why I have to respect these geriatric twats - I still travel the world and do stuff - I stay open minded. Pb does not

    Hey ho

    If I’m still here in a year please please please tease me mercilessly until I am shamed into going. I need to find a replacement forum - it’s not easy. Pb of old
    was special

    I am looking hard
    Do you not think you've played a large part in driving away people who disagree with you?
    Absolutely not. I love a good argument. That’s why I come here. Yes I can be bruising but I always respect someone who articulately disagrees, and I never whine if someone is nasty

    What’s ruined the site is the dead hand of orthodoxy. Plus you’re all a bunch of fucking lawyers and accountants and business dudes and retired IT geeks. Twats

    We desperately need more arty types. Poets. Violinists. Dancers. Opera singers. Anyone creative, anyone, literally anyone. Anyone!

    But no
    Arty types can fuck off they have nothing whatsoever to add to any conversation
    I consider you something of an arty type pagan. I could imagine one of your diatribes graffitied font size 782 on the wall of the Tate Modern with the tofu-eating wokerati flocking to it to nod sagely at the rawness of it all.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    She has 280 million followers on Instagram. Putting musical influence to one side, she is the Beatles for Millennials.
    I'm embarrassed to admit that I could not name a single one of her songs. Just completely passed me by I'm afraid. Obviously the fault is mine.
    I was the same. But one of my colleagues is a Swifty and persuaded me to listen to Midnights.

    My verdict: Not too bad, but not as good as Natalie Imbruglia in her prime.
    I have a Swiftie daughter so I know only slightly more than nothing. Better with the sound off, she exudes charm, authenticity and sincerity to a degree quite rare. The charm is hard to fake. If you want someone who can sing, try Janet Baker.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    She has 280 million followers on Instagram. Putting musical influence to one side, she is the Beatles for Millennials.
    I'm embarrassed to admit that I could not name a single one of her songs. Just completely passed me by I'm afraid. Obviously the fault is mine.
    I was the same. But one of my colleagues is a Swifty and persuaded me to listen to Midnights.

    My verdict: Not too bad, but not as good as Natalie Imbruglia in her prime.
    I have a Swiftie daughter so I know only slightly more than nothing. Better with the sound off, she exudes charm, authenticity and sincerity to a degree quite rare. The charm is hard to fake. If you want someone who can sing, try Janet Baker.
    I agree she has a preternatural abilty to project charm, authenticity and sincerity, but she is musically soul-less.

    She’s a kind of new phenomenon really, the post-musical music megastar.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    AlsoLei said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    AlsoLei said:

    AlsoLei said:

    The Guardian appear to be arguing for a larger Royal Family. Casino Royale has been busy with all the spare time he has away from pb.com

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/feb/09/house-of-windsor-soft-regency-king-charles-prince-william

    I think it's obvious that the next generation of royals don't see much less value in the "visibility" work that the last Queen was so keen on.

    I've been keeping an eye on the Court Circular for the past 6 months (yeah, interesting, I know...)

    Princess Anne does lots of sports, rural, and health-related visits
    Prince Richard does lots of buildings, engineering, built environment-related visits
    Prince Edward does some theatre, arts, and youth-related visits

    And, er, that's it.

    Prince William does virtually none of that stuff, even accounting for time off with his wife being ill. He goes to some dinners, and does a feww investiture ceremonies - the rest of his official engagements tend to be for personal projects like the Earthshot Prize. The contrast between his diary in 2023 and Charles' in, say, 2003 is rather eye-opening.

    But who's to say that's a bad thing - if you've got a new university building that needs opened, say, why do you need Prince Richard rather than a Lord Mayor, ex-government minister, or someone from off the telly anyway?

    At this point, it looks almost like a hobby for the older ones - or something they do because they've always done it, not because there's much need for it.
    I’ve never even heard of Prince Richard.

    I do think it’s fascinating, though, these subtle shifts in kingly responsibilities. It’s not obvious to me why William is maintaining a low profile. Is he just lazy?
    Richard is the Duke of Gloucester - the King's cousin, I think. Did an architecture course in the 70s, and has been stuck opening shopping centres ever since...

    As for William, I know there've been rumours about problems in his personal life - and at the very least his wife must have been very ill for some time to need such a hugely serious operation. But I doubt that's enough have stopped him taking some of Anne/Richard/Edward's more prestigious gigs if he'd felt it was necessary to do so - he just doesn't see the value in it.
    Yes, Duke of Gloucester. I just never hear him referred to as Prince Richard, for some reason. I agree with the original notion that we’re frankly short of a few royals. Philip and Zara look the most “papabile” to my eye.

    William needs to pull his finger out.
    The deal is that we pay for their luxury, and they perform their duties like Stakhanovites.

    Speaking of which, the King is also the King of NZ. I know he’s due for a visit in November, but we kind of need him more often than every five or six years.

    The days of organising the monarchy around the contingencies of boat-plane via BOAC are well and truly over.
    Profits of the crown estates and duchies pay for the Prince and Princess of Wales actually, taxpayers pay for nothing more than their security.

    The Governor General does the day to day things in NZ for the King and is currently a Maori woman
    The crown estates belong to the country, they are not the private property of the monarch.

    If we became a republic the crown estates would just be rebranded to something else, just as everything that is currently HM whatever will get rebranded then too.
    If we became a republic taxpayers would fund a President and their family direct
    They could be fully covered by the 'republic estates' or whatever they're rebranded to and then some since there'd only be one figurehead to fund not an entire sprawling family of them.
    Legally arguably not, the crown estates belong to the monarch as corporate sole, just George III surrendered their revenues to the Treasury.

    They would also bring in far less tourism revenue and we are moving to a working royals of just the King and Queen and heir and their family anyway, so no different to say the US system of President and First Lady and family and VP and spouse and family
    No, you are totally wrong and the law is explicitly clear.

    The monarch holds the crown estates by virtue of the crown, they are quite explicitly NOT the private property of the monarch.

    "Does The Crown Estate belong to the King?"
    No.
    https://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/about-us/faqs

    If the UK becomes a republic then everything that belongs to 'the crown' will now belong to however the state is now run, not the royal family who quite explicitly do not privately own it.

    If we become a republic the private property of the Windsors will remain their private property, but the crown is the states, not theirs.
    'The UK government does not own The Crown Estate either.' Whoever held the Crown at the time would therefore have a strong legal argument to maintain it, even if some of the revenues still went to the State
    No they would not.

    The UK state is more than just the government, the crown is part of the state.

    If we become a republic, then the crown would be dissolved and everything belong to or answering to it would go to the state however it was dissolved, none of it is or would be any individuals private property.
    The Crown is not part of the government either, although the government is appointed by the Crown.

    As I said the Crown Estate has never belonged to the government or Parliament, so whoever held the Crown at the time would certainly have a legal case to claim title to it
    No, they would not. You don't understand the law or our constitution at all.

    The crown is an integral part of the British state.

    If the state ceases to be a monarchy then all the roles, responsibilities, obligations, rights etc of the crown get transfered from the crown to whatever replaces it.

    The private property of the Windsors is their private property, but the states rights and responsibilities are not.
    As has been pointed out the Crown is separate from Parliament and the Government. The Crown Estate has always been held by the Crown, not the government nor Parliament, even if it gives revenues to the Treasury.

    In the unlikely event we became a republic therefore the holder of the office of the Crown could still lay claim to its title legally, it would not automatically transfer to Parliament and the government
    Untrue. The Crown, as a concept, exists to separate the state and its property from the physical person and personal property of the King.

    Far from being separate from the government, The Crown encompasses parliament, the privy council and the executive, the judiciary, and (in England) the established church.

    The analogous construct in other countries would be "the state".

    ETA: This briefing from the HoC Library goes into detail
    No they are not the Crown except on an absurdly broad interpretation, which would have no relevance to the Crown Estate anyway which has always belonged to the serving monarch.

    'The term has been used to describe a physical object or as an alternative way of referring to the
    monarch in their personal or official capacity. At its most expansive, the Crown has been taken as a proxy for “the government” or what in other countries would be known as “the State”. '
    So you know better than the HoC LIbrary. As well as (edit: earlier on today) knowing exactly what H. Mountbatten-Windsor will be doing in the next few years in terms of nationality? The teaching at Aber must be seriously good.
    I literally quoted from the HoC Library there
    But you didn't say so. A big fail in rational argument. It could have been Basil Brush for all I know.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    AlsoLei said:

    moonshine said:

    By the way if you’d like I can talk about how JK Rowling is the equivalent British candidate that would sweep all before her if she ran for PM.

    Er. Have you ever read the Harry Potter books? Enid Blyton with more child abuse.

    I was the right age at the right time for them. And, er, there's a reason why I plumped for Gore Vidal instead.

    ETA: To be fair, I may not be entirely representative of my age group....
    I was sold the very first one, before they were famous, by mistake in an Edinburgh bookshop (just along from the cafe that claimed to be the place where the author used to write them, though at least one more claimed that ....). Gave me thje screaming abdabs. I dumped it onto a friend's child who was enthralled.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    AlsoLei said:

    moonshine said:

    By the way if you’d like I can talk about how JK Rowling is the equivalent British candidate that would sweep all before her if she ran for PM.

    Er. Have you ever read the Harry Potter books? Enid Blyton with more child abuse.

    I was the right age at the right time for them. And, er, there's a reason why I plumped for Gore Vidal instead.

    ETA: To be fair, I may not be entirely representative of my age group....
    The first 4 volumes were readable as OK children's literature, the final three utterly interminable. I was (still am) a parent of a certain age where I had to live through this including being morally compelled to read it. One or two of the films had their moments, but like LOTR and Wagner, they also had their half hours.

    Rowling in the form of Robert Galbraith is worth a look, though patchy. But of course she is rightly a national treasure.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    Carnyx said:

    AlsoLei said:

    moonshine said:

    By the way if you’d like I can talk about how JK Rowling is the equivalent British candidate that would sweep all before her if she ran for PM.

    Er. Have you ever read the Harry Potter books? Enid Blyton with more child abuse.

    I was the right age at the right time for them. And, er, there's a reason why I plumped for Gore Vidal instead.

    ETA: To be fair, I may not be entirely representative of my age group....
    I was sold the very first one, before they were famous, by mistake in an Edinburgh bookshop (just along from the cafe that claimed to be the place where the author used to write them, though at least one more claimed that ....). Gave me thje screaming abdabs. I dumped it onto a friend's child who was enthralled.
    1st editions go for massive amounts of money - if was still on your bookshelf you could put a lotus in your garage.

    Anteoculatia!
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    edited February 9
    Carnyx said:

    AlsoLei said:

    moonshine said:

    By the way if you’d like I can talk about how JK Rowling is the equivalent British candidate that would sweep all before her if she ran for PM.

    Er. Have you ever read the Harry Potter books? Enid Blyton with more child abuse.

    I was the right age at the right time for them. And, er, there's a reason why I plumped for Gore Vidal instead.

    ETA: To be fair, I may not be entirely representative of my age group....
    I was sold the very first one, before they were famous, by mistake in an Edinburgh bookshop (just along from the cafe that claimed to be the place where the author used to write them, though at least one more claimed that ....). Gave me thje screaming abdabs. I dumped it onto a friend's child who was enthralled.
    Hi, little boy, you're going to come live with us but we hate you. And we're going to make you live under the stairs and be very certain that we hate you. And you're going to go to a deeply odd and slightly-abusive school, but no matter how creepy it is, it'll seem like an idyllic refuge compared to home because we hate you. And you'll be dragged home against your will in the holidays and we hate you. And no-one will believe you when you say that we hate you, but we do really really hate you, and we'll make sure you know it. And you're going to win lots at an illogical sport that is set up entirely to allow you to win at it, but we still hate you. We'll hate you forever. We hate you.

    Er, no thanks.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Harper said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Halfway through tucker Putin


    Interim verdict: Putin looks healthy enough. Quite on top of his brief. Remember when we were told he was dying?

    Also: not mad. Obsessive. Autocratic. But not insane. Not immediately off putting. Wily. Cunning. Duplicitous

    I sense he really doesn’t want to invade and conquer Eastern Europe. But he really does want a large chunk of Ukraine. And he is genuinely aggrieved about NATO expansion - it’s not a pretext

    So a dangerous man but not a Hitler

    Interim verdict on tucker: doing the best he can. His main achievement is getting the interview in the first place - creating the envy of all his peers

    He also asks some quite devious questions that make Putin look a little credulous or clumsy but he does it in a way that Putin doesn’t notice

    It is not 120 minutes of sycophancy. But I am only halfway through

    Yet still 50 minutes longer than most people with their heads actually screwed on have managed.

    Some of us still remember the days when you were telling us all that Putin would be our saviour.

    Another one that didn’t surprise on the upside.
    It it a constant source of amazement to me that your only friend is a dog, given the ready wit, personal charm and that sly, playful charisma you regularly exhibit on this site
    You are wasted on this site Leon. Your charm charisma and intelligence is too much for the regulars to handle.
    I know. I sometimes feel I am more approached in Sverdlovsk than Swindon

    A prophet without honour etc
    What's happened to you, Leon? Are you OK?
    Cambodia. Doing good professional knapping but bereft of social life - a self inflicted monastic solitude which I now possibly regret. Because it makes me reliant on PB for discourse at a time when PB has turned to shit

    No wonder so many have fled the site

    But I will end up with some excellent flints - I think - and it will all be worth it. Head down. Do the graft

    Good work SHOULD be hard
    Is PB not just in a lull waiting for some significant political betting to start? The general election could be mere weeks away and the US election is definitely in November. Calm before the storm (and the opportunity to fleece some less savvy punters on the markets?)
    No. Absolutely no

    It is in a terrible decline

    Recall we used to compare it to a pub. You had the regulars, with their cranky obsessions and ancient gossip, you had frequent visitors - sometimes drunk, sometimes high, often amusing - you had passers by with brilliant new stories or total bewilderment. Crucially you had a core of really intelligent open minded people gathered round the bar

    It seems to me that open minded core has gone. Now PB resembles a tedious HR meeting dominated by fucking boring lawyers and accountants and IT nerds who insist they are right, won’t allow dissent, and either chase away interesting people or bore everyone else

    The wokeness prevails, there is no intellectual curiosity, no surprising new views from that guy on the corner by the slot machine

    The only reason I am still here is because i have invested 15 years of conversation in this place and it will be a large wrench to leave, and I am particularly reliant on it out here in Phnom Penh

    I will leave it as soon as I can
    I think reflects the broader politics.
    Nobody believes in the Brexit fairy anymore, the idea of supporting the Tories is risible, and Starmer is about to offer the blandest prospectus ever put to the British public. Even the Lib Dems have nothing to say.

    The world is pivoting, the kaleidoscope has been shaken, but Britain has given up. For the moment, at least.

    Yes. The wider world is definitely part of it. Politics is more polarised so pb is part of that

    Also everyone here is just older and crankier perhaps. But fuck knows why I have to respect these geriatric twats - I still travel the world and do stuff - I stay open minded. Pb does not

    Hey ho

    If I’m still here in a year please please please tease me mercilessly until I am shamed into going. I need to find a replacement forum - it’s not easy. Pb of old
    was special

    I am looking hard
    Do you not think you've played a large part in driving away people who disagree with you?
    Absolutely not. I love a good argument. That’s why I come here. Yes I can be bruising but I always respect someone who articulately disagrees, and I never whine if someone is nasty

    What’s ruined the site is the dead hand of orthodoxy. Plus you’re all a bunch of fucking lawyers and accountants and business dudes and retired IT geeks. Twats

    We desperately need more arty types. Poets. Violinists. Dancers. Opera singers. Anyone creative, anyone, literally anyone. Anyone!

    But no
    Arty types can fuck off they have nothing whatsoever to add to any conversation
    Adding nothing whatsoever to any conversation is a high barrier for exclusion.
    Sorry but in leons case its absolutely true....he comments on crap like large language models and heralds them as ai when he has absolutely no clue....why because he is an arty type. Sorry he and they should shut up on issues they have no idea about. I don't comment on art he shouldn't comment on anything vaguely connected to science
    Since when did Leon demonstrate any understanding of art, anyway?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,580
    moonshine said:

    darkage said:

    I think that people are exaggerating the influence of Taylor Swift. Up until the 00's there were genuine megastars that everyone had heard of because the amount of information was limited to what was on TV. I'd guess nowadays that a lot of people have no idea who she is, even though her songs get billions of listens on Spotify and her shows attract 50,000 people per night. She is popular with her fans and has some broader cultural recognition but she is not a ubiquitous megastar in the way that some people imagine.

    She has 280 million followers on Instagram. Putting musical influence to one side, she is the Beatles for Millennials.
    And for me. I'm a Swifty.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    BORIS JOHNSON: Putin's interview with his fawning stooge Tucker Carlson was straight out of Hitler's playbook. I pray Americans see through this unholy charade

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-13066311/BORIS-JOHNSON-Putin-Tucker-Carlson-interview-stooge-Hitler-charade.html

    Well s*** a bus! Why was Johnson shilling for Trump not three weeks ago? Has he not made the connection between Trump and Putin yet?
This discussion has been closed.