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LAB fancied to make more by-election gains in the Feb 15th contests – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...

    Just seen the PMQ clip.

    Starmer is genuinely furious and disbelieving I think.

    Reeves kind of has to calm him down as he sits back when the speaker intervenes to calm the loons on tory bench.

    So Starmer became "unhinged", over reacting to a hilarious Sunak gag.

    Channelling my inner Daily Telegraph.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,988
    @SimonScarrow
    On a positive note, I have heard from a Downing Street insider that the mood inside number 10 is desperate. They have already accepted they will be hammered and that it is all about damage limitation now. May looks like most likely election date but apparently Sunak besieged by ministers who want to keep their chauffeur driven cars for as long as possible and want to hold out until Nov.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,703
    He's a class act.


    Sophy Ridge
    @SophyRidgeSky
    ·
    2m
    Wes Streeting tells me it’s Labour’s “ambition” to meet the £28bn green pledge

    “I can have an ambition to be Taylor Swift, that doesn’t mean it’s going to happen”

    “Well it’s never too late Sophy”
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,703
    Scott_xP said:

    @SimonScarrow
    On a positive note, I have heard from a Downing Street insider that the mood inside number 10 is desperate. They have already accepted they will be hammered and that it is all about damage limitation now. May looks like most likely election date but apparently Sunak besieged by ministers who want to keep their chauffeur driven cars for as long as possible and want to hold out until Nov.

    Wasn't November ruled out only, like, erm, yesterday as Trump 2.0 show will be in full circus mode and the Western alliance can't afford to look too disorganised?

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gqiyxRCjCA

    I see Farage is making hay with this story about how a Newcastle fan has been banned for two years for having gender critical views. More sinister was the premier league's surveillance campaign and then been interviewed by Northumbria police under caution. They had been passed a 14 page dossier by the PL. An extraordinary story one would think but I'm struggling to find any mention of it in progressive media.

    Someone really needs to start calling time on this stuff. If a milk toast liberal like me is feeling exasperated I can't imagine how the average person feels.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,703

    ...

    Just seen the PMQ clip.

    Starmer is genuinely furious and disbelieving I think.

    Reeves kind of has to calm him down as he sits back when the speaker intervenes to calm the loons on tory bench.

    So Starmer became "unhinged", over reacting to a hilarious Sunak gag.

    Channelling my inner Daily Telegraph.
    LOL.

    "Lefty Lawyer Woke Warrior loses his cool when PM gives biology lesson"

    Or some such headline.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,988

    Scott_xP said:

    @SimonScarrow
    On a positive note, I have heard from a Downing Street insider that the mood inside number 10 is desperate. They have already accepted they will be hammered and that it is all about damage limitation now. May looks like most likely election date but apparently Sunak besieged by ministers who want to keep their chauffeur driven cars for as long as possible and want to hold out until Nov.

    Wasn't November ruled out only, like, erm, yesterday as Trump 2.0 show will be in full circus mode and the Western alliance can't afford to look too disorganised?

    Better go May then...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,703
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SimonScarrow
    On a positive note, I have heard from a Downing Street insider that the mood inside number 10 is desperate. They have already accepted they will be hammered and that it is all about damage limitation now. May looks like most likely election date but apparently Sunak besieged by ministers who want to keep their chauffeur driven cars for as long as possible and want to hold out until Nov.

    Wasn't November ruled out only, like, erm, yesterday as Trump 2.0 show will be in full circus mode and the Western alliance can't afford to look too disorganised?

    Better go May then...
    I'm beginning to wonder...

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826

    ...

    Just seen the PMQ clip.

    Starmer is genuinely furious and disbelieving I think.

    Reeves kind of has to calm him down as he sits back when the speaker intervenes to calm the loons on tory bench.

    So Starmer became "unhinged", over reacting to a hilarious Sunak gag.

    Channelling my inner Daily Telegraph.
    LOL.

    "Lefty Lawyer Woke Warrior loses his cool when PM gives biology lesson"

    Or some such headline.
    And yet there are no such headlines. Yet again inventing phantom culture warriors on the right.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,224
    Selebian said:

    Just seen the PMQ clip.

    Starmer is genuinely furious and disbelieving I think.

    Reeves kind of has to calm him down as he sits back when the speaker intervenes to calm the loons on tory bench.

    Yes, that struck me. He's either a much better actor than I give him credit for or the comment really, genuinely got to him. He seemed lost for words. Barely made a point before he sat down again
    Agree. His script for his next question clearly went out of the window.

    It's good to see some genuine humanity from Starmer.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,815

    He's a class act.


    Sophy Ridge
    @SophyRidgeSky
    ·
    2m
    Wes Streeting tells me it’s Labour’s “ambition” to meet the £28bn green pledge

    “I can have an ambition to be Taylor Swift, that doesn’t mean it’s going to happen”

    “Well it’s never too late Sophy”

    Striking a blow for the North Ilford Ghetto!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494

    He's a class act.


    Sophy Ridge
    @SophyRidgeSky
    ·
    2m
    Wes Streeting tells me it’s Labour’s “ambition” to meet the £28bn green pledge

    “I can have an ambition to be Taylor Swift, that doesn’t mean it’s going to happen”

    “Well it’s never too late Sophy”

    Not really. I don’t like him one bit.
  • Clutch_BromptonClutch_Brompton Posts: 737
    edited February 7
    This week for Mr Sunak has been, um, notable and its still only Wednesday. He has been Truss-like in his deft popular touch and firm grip on reality.

    On topic - Wellingborough looks gone. Possibly the only idea worse than selecting Mr Bone as candidate was selecting the girlfriend who Bone dumped his wife for. Reform are very active there and could split the anti-Con vote but they also may well be taking far more votes from those who would otherwise vote Con than from those minded to vote Lab.

    Kingswood is rather more interesting though Lab should have found it easier. The Cons seem to have largely abandoned Wellingborough (no doubt due to the local party's idiotic candidate selection) and are throwing all they have at this contest. They are also running the Uxbridge playbook by focusing on a pro-car message against the local council and proclaiming the local nature of their candidate. Lab still seem to have far more boots on the ground despite also running an all-out campaign in Wellingborough. Reform are also active but not as much as in Wellingborough.

    LDs and Greens are very quiet - Tactical Voting will be in full force.

    Rochdale has its interest. Galloway will hoover up Gaza discontent especially in the local Muslim community. Rochdale Reform have been taking notes on candidate selection from the Wellingborough Cons and have selected the disgraced and frankly rather odd former local MP. So could Lab drop back and the Con vote hold up to produce some sort of a surprise? They have a pretty strong local candidate. It may be vanishingly unlikely but it still may be the best Con chance of a win in these three by-elections
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,988

    He's a class act.


    Sophy Ridge
    @SophyRidgeSky
    ·
    2m
    Wes Streeting tells me it’s Labour’s “ambition” to meet the £28bn green pledge

    “I can have an ambition to be Taylor Swift, that doesn’t mean it’s going to happen”

    “Well it’s never too late Sophy”

    A politician who can think on his feet and respond appropriately.

    How Richi wishes...
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779
    On the by-election front, there is a local council by-election in Hillhead (Glasgow) soon. Interesting potential vote split.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,988

    This week for Mr Sunak has been, um, notable and its still only Wednesday.

    @garzaaa8_

    not only is it not Friday, it's not evenThursday
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,815

    I’m probably in a minority of one, and 100% Sunak was wrong to use trans in his diatribe against Starmer, especially at this time, but I don’t think the ‘joke’, such as it was, was transphobic. It was mocking Starmer and the difficulties he got into over defining what is a woman.

    The issue is not really whether it was transphobic or not, different opinions exist.

    Was it shocking manners/offensive/gratuitous to the parents of a murdered child?
    And more cynically, was it good politics?

    On neither does Rishi come out well.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    I’m probably in a minority of one, and 100% Sunak was wrong to use trans in his diatribe against Starmer, especially at this time, but I don’t think the ‘joke’, such as it was, was transphobic. It was mocking Starmer and the difficulties he got into over defining what is a woman.

    Starmer is such a cock that there is plenty of material with which to hand him his arse without doing the transphobia gag in front of Briannha Ghey's mother.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,396

    I’m probably in a minority of one, and 100% Sunak was wrong to use trans in his diatribe against Starmer, especially at this time, but I don’t think the ‘joke’, such as it was, was transphobic. It was mocking Starmer and the difficulties he got into over defining what is a woman.

    Starmer is such a cock that there is plenty of material with which to hand him his arse without doing the transphobia gag in front of Briannha Ghey's mother.
    I agree, but I don’t think it was transphobic.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779

    I’m probably in a minority of one, and 100% Sunak was wrong to use trans in his diatribe against Starmer, especially at this time, but I don’t think the ‘joke’, such as it was, was transphobic. It was mocking Starmer and the difficulties he got into over defining what is a woman.

    I think Rishi was just clumsy. He had a script, specifically badly prepped in the circumstances, and ... just went with it.

    And as a wavering voter 'clumsy' isn't winning me over. Even against 'grey mist' - 'clumsy' loses out.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    Coming round to the view the Tories should just axe Rishi.

    Not sure how much worse it could get, really.

    It’s saying something that parachuting someone like May back in (a woman who ran the worst election campaign in living memory) is actually looking like a relatively smart move.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,815

    Scott_xP said:

    @SimonScarrow
    On a positive note, I have heard from a Downing Street insider that the mood inside number 10 is desperate. They have already accepted they will be hammered and that it is all about damage limitation now. May looks like most likely election date but apparently Sunak besieged by ministers who want to keep their chauffeur driven cars for as long as possible and want to hold out until Nov.

    Wasn't November ruled out only, like, erm, yesterday as Trump 2.0 show will be in full circus mode and the Western alliance can't afford to look too disorganised?

    November bad for Tories as:

    Chasing so need attention for their campaign, rather than attention being on Trump which will be more entertaining and bizarre
    Tories split in thirds on Trump, with the fans, critics and the pretend its not really happening brigade. Divided parties always do badly.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    I’m probably in a minority of one, and 100% Sunak was wrong to use trans in his diatribe against Starmer, especially at this time, but I don’t think the ‘joke’, such as it was, was transphobic. It was mocking Starmer and the difficulties he got into over defining what is a woman.

    Starmer is such a cock that there is plenty of material with which to hand him his arse without doing the transphobia gag in front of Briannha Ghey's mother.
    I agree, but I don’t think it was transphobic.
    If you track back as to why he is trolling Starmer it leads to Starmer's view on transgender issues. So by hook or by crook it smells like transphobia.
  • Scott_xP said:

    He's a class act.


    Sophy Ridge
    @SophyRidgeSky
    ·
    2m
    Wes Streeting tells me it’s Labour’s “ambition” to meet the £28bn green pledge

    “I can have an ambition to be Taylor Swift, that doesn’t mean it’s going to happen”

    “Well it’s never too late Sophy”

    A politician who can think on his feet and respond appropriately.

    How Richi wishes...
    Wes Streeting is a Cambridge man.

    They ooze class, dignity,and so in touch with the common man.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SimonScarrow
    On a positive note, I have heard from a Downing Street insider that the mood inside number 10 is desperate. They have already accepted they will be hammered and that it is all about damage limitation now. May looks like most likely election date but apparently Sunak besieged by ministers who want to keep their chauffeur driven cars for as long as possible and want to hold out until Nov.

    Wasn't November ruled out only, like, erm, yesterday as Trump 2.0 show will be in full circus mode and the Western alliance can't afford to look too disorganised?

    Better go May then...
    Why not January?

    Sunak must be dreading the election. His failure - likely the first real failure he'll have experienced in his life - crystallised. Nothing now he can do to avoid it.

    And, yes, that does argue, in a way, for May: get it over with as soon as possible.

    But if he can hold out for another year, a January election might be much less painful - a damp squib, SKS wins a thumping majority but who cares? "It was inevitable, everyone knew it was coming". Fewer interviews because the political journos don't want to be at work in late December, less interest because of the upcoming Trump inauguration.

    Christmas could be his fridge - and he might well decide to hide in it rather than fail in May's sunlit glare.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,988

    Coming round to the view the Tories should just axe Rishi.

    Not sure how much worse it could get, really.

    It’s saying something that parachuting someone like May back in (a woman who ran the worst election campaign in living memory) is actually looking like a relatively smart move.

    If they brought May back as PM and she left Hunt and Cameron in place and put Penny Mordaunt in the Home Office, the government would instantly look a lot more credible.
    Nothing has changed...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,988
    AlsoLei said:

    But if he can hold out for another year

    He can't
  • AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    There we go, the PB ex-Tories have told us it wasn't transphobic.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631

    Coming round to the view the Tories should just axe Rishi.

    Not sure how much worse it could get, really.

    It’s saying something that parachuting someone like May back in (a woman who ran the worst election campaign in living memory) is actually looking like a relatively smart move.

    Yes, I think it increasingly likely that there is a VONC in the spring.

    The backbenchers must be having kittens at the thought of losing their"safe seats".
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,873

    He's a class act.


    Sophy Ridge
    @SophyRidgeSky
    ·
    2m
    Wes Streeting tells me it’s Labour’s “ambition” to meet the £28bn green pledge

    “I can have an ambition to be Taylor Swift, that doesn’t mean it’s going to happen”

    “Well it’s never too late Sophy”

    Striking a blow for the North Ilford Ghetto!
    Speaking of which, one of The Apprentice candidates is a pharmacist from Ilford.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779

    Foxy said:

    Harper said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Why have so many American leftists spent the last nine years dunking on Donald Trump’s supporters instead of seeking to understand them? With Trump likely to become the Republican nominee in this year’s US presidential election, it’s a question worth asking."

    https://quillette.com/2024/02/07/stop-dunking-on-trump-supporters/

    I love how Trump supporters, who are probably the last people on Earth who would seek to "understand" people they disagreed with, are so desperate to be understood themselves.
    It's absurdly simple.

    They just hate the Libtards, and anyone who sticks it to them is OK, no matter what.
    It is curious: the discussion is never "why have so many American rightists been driven crazy by crazy culture wars stuff that doesn't actually impact people's actual lives?"
    Interesting but incorrect.
    Affirmative action hiring based on race has a real impact on peoples lives.
    A policy of open door immigration has a real impact on peoples lives.
    Kissing Putins arse does too.
    Putin met Trump in Helsinki and nothing bad happened afterwards.

    Putin met Biden in Geneva, and shortly afterwards he launched a full scale invasion of Ukraine.
    Putin met The Dealmaker in Helsinki in a private session with no advisors present. Who knows what they discussed or decided between them or what assurances were given? I'm surprised this isn't mentioned whenever the history of WW3 is being written in real time.
    No-one knows what sweet, sweet love they made. Little affectionate tickle. Giggles. Some coy eye-contact. Faint reminder of that night on Obama's bed with the pee-pee-girls. Happy days.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631

    He's a class act.


    Sophy Ridge
    @SophyRidgeSky
    ·
    2m
    Wes Streeting tells me it’s Labour’s “ambition” to meet the £28bn green pledge

    “I can have an ambition to be Taylor Swift, that doesn’t mean it’s going to happen”

    “Well it’s never too late Sophy”

    Not really. I don’t like him one bit.
    Me neither.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,873

    I’m probably in a minority of one, and 100% Sunak was wrong to use trans in his diatribe against Starmer, especially at this time, but I don’t think the ‘joke’, such as it was, was transphobic. It was mocking Starmer and the difficulties he got into over defining what is a woman.

    Starmer is such a cock that there is plenty of material with which to hand him his arse without doing the transphobia gag in front of Briannha Ghey's mother.
    I agree, but I don’t think it was transphobic.
    If you track back as to why he is trolling Starmer it leads to Starmer's view on transgender issues. So by hook or by crook it smells like transphobia.
    Rishi might have misjudged the moment but for all the fury from Number 10 "insiders" one can't help thinking this was a scripted attack, not spontaneous.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    ohnotnow said:

    I’m probably in a minority of one, and 100% Sunak was wrong to use trans in his diatribe against Starmer, especially at this time, but I don’t think the ‘joke’, such as it was, was transphobic. It was mocking Starmer and the difficulties he got into over defining what is a woman.

    I think Rishi was just clumsy. He had a script, specifically badly prepped in the circumstances, and ... just went with it.

    And as a wavering voter 'clumsy' isn't winning me over. Even against 'grey mist' - 'clumsy' loses out.
    Here's something worse than clumsy which the Washington.

    https://twitter.com/deanbphillips/status/1754948258571407570

    Biden stumbling mid sentence and confusing Macron with Mitterrand.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779
    Foxy said:

    Coming round to the view the Tories should just axe Rishi.

    Not sure how much worse it could get, really.

    It’s saying something that parachuting someone like May back in (a woman who ran the worst election campaign in living memory) is actually looking like a relatively smart move.

    Yes, I think it increasingly likely that there is a VONC in the spring.

    The backbenchers must be having kittens at the thought of losing their"safe seats".
    I always thought the tory nadir was the mid/late Major government on the back the the scandals, in-fighting etc.

    But this feels like ... if I can cross my political metaphors - like 300 of the crazed Watership Down rabbits trying to get on a small 50-rabbit boat before it sets out into the channel.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...
    Scott_xP said:

    Coming round to the view the Tories should just axe Rishi.

    Not sure how much worse it could get, really.

    It’s saying something that parachuting someone like May back in (a woman who ran the worst election campaign in living memory) is actually looking like a relatively smart move.

    If they brought May back as PM and she left Hunt and Cameron in place and put Penny Mordaunt in the Home Office, the government would instantly look a lot more credible.
    Nothing has changed...
    If shuffling the pack solely for the win is what it's all about. Why not?

    New bottle, same dreary wine.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Eabhal said:

    I’m probably in a minority of one, and 100% Sunak was wrong to use trans in his diatribe against Starmer, especially at this time, but I don’t think the ‘joke’, such as it was, was transphobic. It was mocking Starmer and the difficulties he got into over defining what is a woman.

    Starmer is such a cock that there is plenty of material with which to hand him his arse without doing the transphobia gag in front of Briannha Ghey's mother.
    I agree, but I don’t think it was transphobic.
    It's a reminder that flippant remarks about a vulnerable minority don't survive contact with said minority.

    There is a serious debate about trans issues. The appropriate place for that debate is the House of Commons. For example, a serious person like cyclefree, despite her strong views, would take a great deal of care with her rhetoric were she an MP.
    Context ?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/07/brianna-gheys-father-demands-apology-from-sunak-over-transgender-remarks
    .. Asked repeatedly why Sunak had made a joke at the expense of trans people, the chancellor told the BBC this was “taking these comments out of context”, before eventually refusing to engage with questions about whether the prime minister should apologis….
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    ohnotnow said:

    I’m probably in a minority of one, and 100% Sunak was wrong to use trans in his diatribe against Starmer, especially at this time, but I don’t think the ‘joke’, such as it was, was transphobic. It was mocking Starmer and the difficulties he got into over defining what is a woman.

    I think Rishi was just clumsy. He had a script, specifically badly prepped in the circumstances, and ... just went with it.

    And as a wavering voter 'clumsy' isn't winning me over. Even against 'grey mist' - 'clumsy' loses out.
    Here's something worse than clumsy which the Washington.

    https://twitter.com/deanbphillips/status/1754948258571407570

    Biden stumbling mid sentence and confusing Macron with Mitterrand.
    Er, been discussed several PB pub park fights ago, actually, not to mention Sunakite foots in mouths, and all of two proper non-subsample Scotland surveys.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779

    ohnotnow said:

    I’m probably in a minority of one, and 100% Sunak was wrong to use trans in his diatribe against Starmer, especially at this time, but I don’t think the ‘joke’, such as it was, was transphobic. It was mocking Starmer and the difficulties he got into over defining what is a woman.

    I think Rishi was just clumsy. He had a script, specifically badly prepped in the circumstances, and ... just went with it.

    And as a wavering voter 'clumsy' isn't winning me over. Even against 'grey mist' - 'clumsy' loses out.
    Here's something worse than clumsy which the Washington.

    https://twitter.com/deanbphillips/status/1754948258571407570

    Biden stumbling mid sentence and confusing Macron with Mitterrand.
    I get a sign-up page and nothing else I'm afraid.
  • HarperHarper Posts: 197
    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    Harper said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Why have so many American leftists spent the last nine years dunking on Donald Trump’s supporters instead of seeking to understand them? With Trump likely to become the Republican nominee in this year’s US presidential election, it’s a question worth asking."

    https://quillette.com/2024/02/07/stop-dunking-on-trump-supporters/

    I love how Trump supporters, who are probably the last people on Earth who would seek to "understand" people they disagreed with, are so desperate to be understood themselves.
    It's absurdly simple.

    They just hate the Libtards, and anyone who sticks it to them is OK, no matter what.
    It is curious: the discussion is never "why have so many American rightists been driven crazy by crazy culture wars stuff that doesn't actually impact people's actual lives?"
    Interesting but incorrect.
    Affirmative action hiring based on race has a real impact on peoples lives.
    A policy of open door immigration has a real impact on peoples lives.
    Kissing Putins arse does too.
    Putin met Trump in Helsinki and nothing bad happened afterwards.

    Putin met Biden in Geneva, and shortly afterwards he launched a full scale invasion of Ukraine.
    Putin met The Dealmaker in Helsinki in a private session with no advisors present. Who knows what they discussed or decided between them or what assurances were given? I'm surprised this isn't mentioned whenever the history of WW3 is being written in real time.
    No-one knows what sweet, sweet love they made. Little affectionate tickle. Giggles. Some coy eye-contact. Faint reminder of that night on Obama's bed with the pee-pee-girls. Happy days.
    Who is more alpha thoigh Putin or Trump?
  • What has been fascinating about today's catastrofuck is how little control Number 10 has in the Number 10 operation. Supposedly they had spent "weeks" planning an attack on the Labour green pledge. Well that wouldn't have worked anyway.

    But having done that Sunak shats himself because "he didn't hear" what Starmer said. Right in front of him. And afterwards having realised that he has just soiled himself they have a quick discussion and decide to double down.

    And then back in Number 10 they're still thinking can we apologise and rescue it - never mind actually launch their weeks planned attack - and mad Kemi goes into bat instead to driver her leadership campaign.

    How could it be worse? Simples. Sunak is a walking talking Lizaster. And next week we have two byelections where they face getting absolutely smashed.

    Fun fun fun!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    AlsoLei said:

    Wow.


    Sam Coates Sky
    @SamCoatesSky

    I'm told the Tories had been preparing their assault on Labour's £28 bn for ages - hoping to use it to pivot the conversation in their favour

    Then Sunak messes up PMQs, and all the work gets lost

    Some in No10 discussed an apology - but Kemi Badenoch's tweets doubling down removed that choice

    Sunak ignored calls to apologise during PMQs itself, and his spokesperson doubled down at the 1pm press briefing. The opportunity to gracefully climb down had been lost well before Kemi's intervention.

    Kemi then chose to attack Starmer rather than back Sunak - and I'm sure Sunak's camp are feeling sore about that. But it's a bit rich for them to blame her for wrecking their plans when the actual blame lies so squarely with him.
    But Team Rishi trying to frame Kemi for their own crap footwork is what they are doing nonetheless.

    Psychologists call it transference?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,606
    ohnotnow said:

    ohnotnow said:

    I’m probably in a minority of one, and 100% Sunak was wrong to use trans in his diatribe against Starmer, especially at this time, but I don’t think the ‘joke’, such as it was, was transphobic. It was mocking Starmer and the difficulties he got into over defining what is a woman.

    I think Rishi was just clumsy. He had a script, specifically badly prepped in the circumstances, and ... just went with it.

    And as a wavering voter 'clumsy' isn't winning me over. Even against 'grey mist' - 'clumsy' loses out.
    Here's something worse than clumsy which the Washington.

    https://twitter.com/deanbphillips/status/1754948258571407570

    Biden stumbling mid sentence and confusing Macron with Mitterrand.
    I get a sign-up page and nothing else I'm afraid.
    It's a tweet from a Democratic Congressman pitching himself as an alternative to Biden, and getting attacked by Democrats for it:

    @deanbphillips
    I’m attacked for being honest and saying the quiet part out loud - the part DC insiders only do in private.

    I admire our President. I voted for him and campaigned for him. He has visited my home and been gracious to my family and our country.

    But shame on all of you pretending everything is ok. You are leading us - and him - into a disaster, and you damn well know it.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    ohnotnow said:

    ohnotnow said:

    I’m probably in a minority of one, and 100% Sunak was wrong to use trans in his diatribe against Starmer, especially at this time, but I don’t think the ‘joke’, such as it was, was transphobic. It was mocking Starmer and the difficulties he got into over defining what is a woman.

    I think Rishi was just clumsy. He had a script, specifically badly prepped in the circumstances, and ... just went with it.

    And as a wavering voter 'clumsy' isn't winning me over. Even against 'grey mist' - 'clumsy' loses out.
    Here's something worse than clumsy which the Washington.

    https://twitter.com/deanbphillips/status/1754948258571407570

    Biden stumbling mid sentence and confusing Macron with Mitterrand.
    I get a sign-up page and nothing else I'm afraid.
    'I’m attacked for being honest and saying the quiet part out loud - the part DC insiders only do in private.

    I admire our President. I voted for him and campaigned for him. He has visited my home and been gracious to my family and our country.

    But shame on all of you pretending everything is ok. You are leading us - and him - into a disaster, and you damn well know it'

    You may need a twitter account?
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,728

    I’m probably in a minority of one, and 100% Sunak was wrong to use trans in his diatribe against Starmer, especially at this time, but I don’t think the ‘joke’, such as it was, was transphobic. It was mocking Starmer and the difficulties he got into over defining what is a woman.

    One point about why it is inappropriate is this - and I say this as someone with some sympathy with the gender-critical side of this debate - is that as a question or jibe aimed at politicians it's an incredibly reductive way of talking about an issue that is complex enough to require more than a one-word answer.

    Of course, answering with any tact or saying context matters, differing opinions should be listened to, and scientists and doctors should be too. Or that you're not wading into the debate on one side or the other gives your interlocutor the equivocation they wanted and their hit.

    It's a bit crass and daft at the best of times but that's politics sometimes I suppose.

    But in front of the mum of a murdered trans teenager. It's deeply stupid and offensive as what are you mocking Starmer for? You're mocking him for not taking your own yah boo stance that is in effect saying their daughter wasn't a 'real' girl. Having a little tact and empathy are sadly lost arts in a Tory Party that's now drunk on its own noxious fumes.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    ohnotnow said:

    ohnotnow said:

    I’m probably in a minority of one, and 100% Sunak was wrong to use trans in his diatribe against Starmer, especially at this time, but I don’t think the ‘joke’, such as it was, was transphobic. It was mocking Starmer and the difficulties he got into over defining what is a woman.

    I think Rishi was just clumsy. He had a script, specifically badly prepped in the circumstances, and ... just went with it.

    And as a wavering voter 'clumsy' isn't winning me over. Even against 'grey mist' - 'clumsy' loses out.
    Here's something worse than clumsy which the Washington.

    https://twitter.com/deanbphillips/status/1754948258571407570

    Biden stumbling mid sentence and confusing Macron with Mitterrand.
    I get a sign-up page and nothing else I'm afraid.
    I usually do, in general, but this time I actually got the thing.

    I'm so fed up with Twitter that I think it should be banned from PB like Scottish subsamples, it's so unreliable.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    MJW said:

    I’m probably in a minority of one, and 100% Sunak was wrong to use trans in his diatribe against Starmer, especially at this time, but I don’t think the ‘joke’, such as it was, was transphobic. It was mocking Starmer and the difficulties he got into over defining what is a woman.

    One point about why it is inappropriate is this - and I say this as someone with some sympathy with the gender-critical side of this debate - is that as a question or jibe aimed at politicians it's an incredibly reductive way of talking about an issue that is complex enough to require more than a one-word answer.

    Of course, answering with any tact or saying context matters, differing opinions should be listened to, and scientists and doctors should be too. Or that you're not wading into the debate on one side or the other gives your interlocutor the equivocation they wanted and their hit.

    It's a bit crass and daft at the best of times but that's politics sometimes I suppose.

    But in front of the mum of a murdered trans teenager. It's deeply stupid and offensive as what are you mocking Starmer for? You're mocking him for not taking your own yah boo stance that is in effect saying their daughter wasn't a 'real' girl. Having a little tact and empathy are sadly lost arts in a Tory Party that's now drunk on its own noxious fumes.
    Buit SKS *did* call her their daughter ...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    edited February 7

    ohnotnow said:

    ohnotnow said:

    I’m probably in a minority of one, and 100% Sunak was wrong to use trans in his diatribe against Starmer, especially at this time, but I don’t think the ‘joke’, such as it was, was transphobic. It was mocking Starmer and the difficulties he got into over defining what is a woman.

    I think Rishi was just clumsy. He had a script, specifically badly prepped in the circumstances, and ... just went with it.

    And as a wavering voter 'clumsy' isn't winning me over. Even against 'grey mist' - 'clumsy' loses out.
    Here's something worse than clumsy which the Washington.

    https://twitter.com/deanbphillips/status/1754948258571407570

    Biden stumbling mid sentence and confusing Macron with Mitterrand.
    I get a sign-up page and nothing else I'm afraid.
    'I’m attacked for being honest and saying the quiet part out loud - the part DC insiders only do in private.

    I admire our President. I voted for him and campaigned for him. He has visited my home and been gracious to my family and our country.

    But shame on all of you pretending everything is ok. You are leading us - and him - into a disaster, and you damn well know it'

    You may need a twitter account?
    Why should we have to pay for one? And all the other stuff that goes with signing up to personal social media?

    Edit: not complaining about you personally. But Twitter has been really getting on my nose of late as a lot of organizations which I need to check on for one reason or another have not got used to the idea that a lot of their viewers have suddenly been disallowed access. Yet they expect their punters still to sign up.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,396

    There we go, the PB ex-Tories have told us it wasn't transphobic.

    If you are referring to me, I gave an opinion. I was under the impression that’s still allowed? You may disagree(about both bits).
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    AlsoLei said:

    Wow.


    Sam Coates Sky
    @SamCoatesSky

    I'm told the Tories had been preparing their assault on Labour's £28 bn for ages - hoping to use it to pivot the conversation in their favour

    Then Sunak messes up PMQs, and all the work gets lost

    Some in No10 discussed an apology - but Kemi Badenoch's tweets doubling down removed that choice

    Sunak ignored calls to apologise during PMQs itself, and his spokesperson doubled down at the 1pm press briefing. The opportunity to gracefully climb down had been lost well before Kemi's intervention.

    Kemi then chose to attack Starmer rather than back Sunak - and I'm sure Sunak's camp are feeling sore about that. But it's a bit rich for them to blame her for wrecking their plans when the actual blame lies so squarely with him.
    But Team Rishi trying to frame Kemi for their own crap footwork is what they are doing nonetheless.

    Psychologists call it transference?
    Transference? Not more "trans"!
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    I’m probably in a minority of one, and 100% Sunak was wrong to use trans in his diatribe against Starmer, especially at this time, but I don’t think the ‘joke’, such as it was, was transphobic. It was mocking Starmer and the difficulties he got into over defining what is a woman.

    It suits some people to have a very broad definition of 'transphobia' - as it closes down debate.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,873

    What has been fascinating about today's catastrofuck is how little control Number 10 has in the Number 10 operation. Supposedly they had spent "weeks" planning an attack on the Labour green pledge. Well that wouldn't have worked anyway.

    But having done that Sunak shats himself because "he didn't hear" what Starmer said. Right in front of him. And afterwards having realised that he has just soiled himself they have a quick discussion and decide to double down.

    And then back in Number 10 they're still thinking can we apologise and rescue it - never mind actually launch their weeks planned attack - and mad Kemi goes into bat instead to driver her leadership campaign.

    How could it be worse? Simples. Sunak is a walking talking Lizaster. And next week we have two byelections where they face getting absolutely smashed.

    Fun fun fun!

    I've not rewatched PMQs to check but I can easily believe that Tory jeers drowned out what Starmer was saying. Boris had them stop for a while because he could not hear, and sometimes Theresa May would turn her head to get next to the loudspeaker. We can hear Starmer thanks to the BBC.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779

    ohnotnow said:

    ohnotnow said:

    I’m probably in a minority of one, and 100% Sunak was wrong to use trans in his diatribe against Starmer, especially at this time, but I don’t think the ‘joke’, such as it was, was transphobic. It was mocking Starmer and the difficulties he got into over defining what is a woman.

    I think Rishi was just clumsy. He had a script, specifically badly prepped in the circumstances, and ... just went with it.

    And as a wavering voter 'clumsy' isn't winning me over. Even against 'grey mist' - 'clumsy' loses out.
    Here's something worse than clumsy which the Washington.

    https://twitter.com/deanbphillips/status/1754948258571407570

    Biden stumbling mid sentence and confusing Macron with Mitterrand.
    I get a sign-up page and nothing else I'm afraid.
    'I’m attacked for being honest and saying the quiet part out loud - the part DC insiders only do in private.

    I admire our President. I voted for him and campaigned for him. He has visited my home and been gracious to my family and our country.

    But shame on all of you pretending everything is ok. You are leading us - and him - into a disaster, and you damn well know it'

    You may need a twitter account?
    I guess.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,368
    What was forecast as snow is now forecast as sleet.

    I think that's the most miserable type of weather of all. Cold. Wet. Sticky. Doesn't even look pretty.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132

    ...

    Ghedebrav said:

    AlsoLei said:

    Phantom thread related rather than this one, but Sunak went badly wrong in the first five seconds of his answer well before the controversial bit. Grinning inanely whilst boasting about waiting lists coming down. It is a message that is key but just cannot be delivered with tiggerish enthusiasm and no empathy.

    The takeaway for me is not really the controversy but a re-enforcement of my view that Sunak is really really bad at being PM and will get hammered in a campaign. Therefore, sorry Brenda, but we shall have two new PMs this year.

    How do we get there from here, though?

    In the past, Tory splits were fairly straightforward - wet vs dry, pro-Europe vs sceptic, moderniser vs core values, anti-Brexit vs pro, populism vs managerialism.

    But now the party's split at least five or six ways, and the fracture lines run all over the map. Why risk an abbreviated contest that would risk leaving the wrong faction on top after the election? Better to put up with an incompetent-but-biddable Sunak for now, and have a proper deathmatch leadership election next year.
    I certainly wouldn't rule out a VONC and subsequent leadership contest, especially if the locals are particularly bad (they may well be). But there are only fruitcakes and loons; half the parliamentary party is retiring (including much of the not-mental wing) and will be eyeing directorships and after-dinner jobs - will they have have the stomach to fight a Braverman coronation, or just think 'fuck it, I'm out, let them burn their own house down'?

    Tough times to be a Tory.
    The Tories were wanting to appoint Neil Warnock as caretaker manager until the end of the season, but he’s just signed up with Aberdeen, so is unavailable.
    Is Big Sam available? Alternatively ISAM.

    The father of murdered transgender teenager Brianna Ghey has demanded an apology from Rishi Sunak, saying he was "shocked" by the prime minister's comments in the Commons today.

    Speaking to Sky News, Peter Spooner said Mr Sunak's remarks during PMQs, which the schoolgirl's mother Esther attended, were "degrading" and "absolutely dehumanising".

    He said: "As the prime minister for our country to come out with degrading comments like he did, regardless of them being in relation to discussions in parliament, they are absolutely dehumanising.

    "Identities of people should not be used in that manner, and I personally feel shocked by his comments and feel he should apologise for his remarks."


    https://news.sky.com/story/brianna-gheys-father-demands-apology-from-pm-after-trans-jibe-in-commons-13066231

    Fortunately the BBC seems to be hiding the story on Radio 4 after Blinken, Tucker, and a couple of others. Shelagh Fogarty on LBC was more critical of Starmer than Sunak.
    Not sure if PB has this yet (still comments to read), but it seems that Tucker Carlson's claim that journalists have not bothered to approach Putin for an interview has been debunked by (I think) Sergei Lavrov pointing out that loads have approached, but they aren't interested in talking to them, as they will 'distort' the situation.

    This is Carlson continuing his career as a useful idiot.

  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779
    ydoethur said:

    Please let May come back.

    Just for forty days.

    Just so Massive Johnson sees her overtake him...

    Bring back Liz. At least she was funny. And with a little help could find her way out of a small room.

    I'll take that level of competence.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,988
    @ChrisMasonBBC

    Brianna Ghey’s family are being invited to a meeting about online safety with the Prime Minister and Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology Michelle Donelan, I am told. It is not yet clear when that meeting will take place.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,606
    ydoethur said:

    Please let May come back.

    Just for forty days.

    Just so Massive Johnson sees her overtake him...

    It's also about time we had another repeat PM. It would be a reassertion of parliamentary politics.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    I’m probably in a minority of one, and 100% Sunak was wrong to use trans in his diatribe against Starmer, especially at this time, but I don’t think the ‘joke’, such as it was, was transphobic. It was mocking Starmer and the difficulties he got into over defining what is a woman.

    Starmer is such a cock that there is plenty of material with which to hand him his arse without doing the transphobia gag in front of Briannha Ghey's mother.
    I agree, but I don’t think it was transphobic.
    If you track back as to why he is trolling Starmer it leads to Starmer's view on transgender issues. So by hook or by crook it smells like transphobia.
    Rishi might have misjudged the moment but for all the fury from Number 10 "insiders" one can't help thinking this was a scripted attack, not spontaneous.
    I think you’re giving no 10 too much credit . So far the Tory attempts to use woke has failed miserably . Making a trans jibe whilst a grieving mother is in the building is awful . You just don’t go there .
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    Scott_xP said:

    @ChrisMasonBBC

    Brianna Ghey’s family are being invited to a meeting about online safety with the Prime Minister and Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology Michelle Donelan, I am told. It is not yet clear when that meeting will take place.

    Oh, that is what was pooh-poohed by Ms Keegan and Mr Sunak only last weekend IIRC?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,396
    dixiedean said:

    darkage said:

    I’m probably in a minority of one, and 100% Sunak was wrong to use trans in his diatribe against Starmer, especially at this time, but I don’t think the ‘joke’, such as it was, was transphobic. It was mocking Starmer and the difficulties he got into over defining what is a woman.

    It suits some people to have a very broad definition of 'transphobia' - as it closes down debate.
    Imagine how many posts we'd get through if it hadn't been closed down.
    Although debate on a largely anonymous political betting forum is easier to sustain, as there is much less chance of consequences for expressing the ‘wrong’ view.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,815

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gqiyxRCjCA

    I see Farage is making hay with this story about how a Newcastle fan has been banned for two years for having gender critical views. More sinister was the premier league's surveillance campaign and then been interviewed by Northumbria police under caution. They had been passed a 14 page dossier by the PL. An extraordinary story one would think but I'm struggling to find any mention of it in progressive media.

    Someone really needs to start calling time on this stuff. If a milk toast liberal like me is feeling exasperated I can't imagine how the average person feels.

    Would like to hear the PL/club side of the story here. As presented obviously excessive and unfair but its very much only one side publicly presented and a quick google suggests in this story "having gender critical views" could also be written as saying "the nazis were right to exterminate trans people" which would perhaps sway some but not all views on the case.

    Additional irony with the Saudi ownership and funding of course.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132
    Scott_xP said:

    @ChrisMasonBBC

    Brianna Ghey’s family are being invited to a meeting about online safety with the Prime Minister and Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology Michelle Donelan, I am told. It is not yet clear when that meeting will take place.

    Reverse Ferret No 15306.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    Nigelb said:

    Eabhal said:

    I’m probably in a minority of one, and 100% Sunak was wrong to use trans in his diatribe against Starmer, especially at this time, but I don’t think the ‘joke’, such as it was, was transphobic. It was mocking Starmer and the difficulties he got into over defining what is a woman.

    Starmer is such a cock that there is plenty of material with which to hand him his arse without doing the transphobia gag in front of Briannha Ghey's mother.
    I agree, but I don’t think it was transphobic.
    It's a reminder that flippant remarks about a vulnerable minority don't survive contact with said minority.

    There is a serious debate about trans issues. The appropriate place for that debate is the House of Commons. For example, a serious person like cyclefree, despite her strong views, would take a great deal of care with her rhetoric were she an MP.
    Context ?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/07/brianna-gheys-father-demands-apology-from-sunak-over-transgender-remarks
    .. Asked repeatedly why Sunak had made a joke at the expense of trans people, the chancellor told the BBC this was “taking these comments out of context”, before eventually refusing to engage with questions about whether the prime minister should apologis….
    It's a bizarre statement from Hunt. For the record, this is the entire exchange:

    SKS: This week, the unwavering bravery of Brianna Ghey’s mother, Esther, has touched us all. As a father, I cannot even imagine the pain that she is going through. I am glad that she is with us in the Gallery today.
    SKS: A year ago, the Prime Minister promised to bring down NHS waiting lists. Isn't he glad that he did not bet a grand on it?

    Sunak: At least I stand by my commitments. He is so indecisive that the only bet he would make is an each-way bet.

    SKS: He says he stands by his commitments. He once insisted that, if he missed his promises, "I'm the Prime Minister... it's on me personally".
    SKS: Today we learn from his own officials that he is the blocker to any deal to end the doctors’ strikes. Every time he is asked, he blames everyone else. What exactly did he mean when he said "it’s on me personally" if he does not meet his promise?

    Sunak: We are bringing down waiting lists for the longest waiters and making progress. It's a bit rich to hear about promises from someone who has broken every single promise he was elected on. I have counted almost 30 in the last year: pensions, planning, peerages, public sector pay, tuition fees, childcare, 2nd referendums, defining a woman... although, in fairness, that was only 99% of a u-turn.

    SKS: Of all the weeks to say that, when Brianna’s mother is in this Chamber! Shame! Parading as a man of integrity when he has got absolutely no responsibility.
    SKS: I think the role of the Prime Minister is to ensure that every single citizen in this country feels safe and respected, and it is a shame that the Prime Minister does not share that view.

    So where's the mitigating context? There is none. Sunak was told that Brianna's mother is in the gallery, and yet almost immediately afterwards he chose to proceed with his (presumably scripted) transphobic dig.

    Hunt was quite combative about it, but really he should have deflected here - or perhaps even denied that it was transphobic at all. Trying to gaslight people about some non-existant context just makes things worse - it's almost as if he's demanding that people go watch the exchange again.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,988
    @kaitlancollins

    A federal judge has denied Trump’s motions for a mistrial in the E. Jean Carroll defamation case.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,815
    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ChrisMasonBBC

    Brianna Ghey’s family are being invited to a meeting about online safety with the Prime Minister and Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology Michelle Donelan, I am told. It is not yet clear when that meeting will take place.

    Reverse Ferret No 15306.
    What odds family say it will take place after the apology is made......if the family haven't agreed this would be another huge needless tactical error.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    carnforth said:

    When talking specifically about Brianna, didn't Sunak refer to her as a girl/woman? If so, he was right to do so but how does it sit with what he said previously?

    I will happily use whatever pronouns and name someone wants, out of politeness. But pretending, in my head, that they are actually a woman? Can't make the leap.

    Not sure there's a contradiction there, whether I'm right or wrong about the second half.
    Pronouns...it's not polite...it's clarification dumbwit. If someone called Jerry, or Toni, emails me how the hell do I know if they are a man or a woman? Similarly, how do I know with many foreign names their gender? Am I a fountain of knowledge of all global gender names?

    I fucking hate this made up culture war bollocks that the right perpetuate because they have run out of any genuine ideas to improve the world. But, heh..let's just stoke up some hatred instead....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ChrisMasonBBC

    Brianna Ghey’s family are being invited to a meeting about online safety with the Prime Minister and Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology Michelle Donelan, I am told. It is not yet clear when that meeting will take place.

    Reverse Ferret No 15306.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ferrets/comments/jgobni/where_do_you_get_these_large_ferrets/?rdt=61372
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    edited February 7
    Things are getting heated. Let's cool things down. Pause. What about that Brexit, eh?

    Tim Shipman @ShippersUnbound
    I'm racing to finish 'Out', the final part of my Brexit trilogy. It is finally going to be published on April 25. I'm absolutely thrilled to reveal the final cover by the matchless @mortenmorland It's an epic story packed with new nuggets Pre-order: lnkfi.re/oCRrDT


    https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1755215630226034896#m
    https://www.waterstones.com/book/out/tim-shipman/9780008308940
    Publishing date: 25 April 2024 in hardback
  • If they could program Father Jack Hackett to answer any difficult question with "That would be an Ecumenical Matter",. can't they program Sunak not to soil himself?

    I assume he has at least some brain cells. Kemi. Even Shapps must have one when it isn't allocated to Fox or Green.

    Mush them together. Program one of Leon's AIs. Get at least one Conservative MP who is capable of being a human being.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    @Cyclefree...while you call me out for being misogynist..look at Brianna Grey. If she had committed a serious crime would you seriously have sent her to a male prison, or a male Young Offenders Institute.

    Which prison someone goes to is quite frankly fuck all to do with you, and everything to do with what is safe and in the best interests of that prisoner and their inmates. It is sad to see (but frankly not surprising) that you are perpetuating the Daily Mail Tropes and Culture Wars.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    tyson said:

    carnforth said:

    When talking specifically about Brianna, didn't Sunak refer to her as a girl/woman? If so, he was right to do so but how does it sit with what he said previously?

    I will happily use whatever pronouns and name someone wants, out of politeness. But pretending, in my head, that they are actually a woman? Can't make the leap.

    Not sure there's a contradiction there, whether I'm right or wrong about the second half.
    Pronouns...it's not polite...it's clarification dumbwit. If someone called Jerry, or Toni, emails me how the hell do I know if they are a man or a woman? Similarly, how do I know with many foreign names their gender? Am I a fountain of knowledge of all global gender names?

    I fucking hate this made up culture war bollocks that the right perpetuate because they have run out of any genuine ideas to improve the world. But, heh..let's just stoke up some hatred instead....
    It's odd, because it's precisely the older and on the whole the more right wing who like to know whether to reply with a Mr, Mrs, Ms etc. in semi-formal correspondence. Indeed, that's pretty much enjoined in many organizations.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,368

    ydoethur said:

    Please let May come back.

    Just for forty days.

    Just so Massive Johnson sees her overtake him...

    It's also about time we had another repeat PM. It would be a reassertion of parliamentary politics.
    Last former PM to return after an interlude by another figure from the same party without the Opposition winning in between.

    I keep coming up with William Pitt the Younger replacing Addington in 1804. Anyone got a more recent example?

    Russell in 1865 wouldn't count as Derby had two spells as PM in between 1852 and 1865.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,368
    Scott_xP said:

    @kaitlancollins

    A federal judge has denied Trump’s motions for a mistrial in the E. Jean Carroll defamation case.

    Trump's lawsuits are full of motions.

    Like his underpants, allegedly.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,129
    Carnyx said:

    Edit: not complaining about you personally. But Twitter has been really getting on my nose of late as a lot of organizations which I need to check on for one reason or another have not got used to the idea that a lot of their viewers have suddenly been disallowed access. Yet they expect their punters still to sign up.

    Yes, there are a lot of companies and organisations that got used to using it as a handy broadcast mechanism, and often embedded the tweets on their website somewhere, and that kind of use has basically been broken. As a random example a ferry company I used last year had the up to date info about sailings on twitter, and that page on their website was now showing tweets by most popular first instead of latest first, which meant it was all about sailings from 2012 or 2017. Announcements of things like flood or tornado warnings via twitter also used to be much more helpful than they are now. Sadly there isn't really an equivalent for these places to switch to and it will likely take forever for half these organisations to even notice they ought to do something in the first place.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412
    edited February 7
    Scott_xP said:

    @kaitlancollins

    A federal judge has denied Trump’s motions for a mistrial in the E. Jean Carroll defamation case.

    I only really looked this up recently - I lose track of all his cases. As far as I can gather, the facts are these.
    • This lady is an author who has previously written a novel where she imagines being raped by a powerful politician.
    • She decides to accuse Trump after attending a Democrat Party where she's persuaded to do so.
    • There are no witnesses, and literally zero corroboration for her account, except two friends who say that she told them.
    • It's not been proven in a court of law, nor would it ever reach one.
    Yet Trump now owes her £80mill for trashing her reputation by denying rape.

    I am reminded of the 'just because you're paranoid' aphorism.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,574
    Starmer manages to "upstage" Sunak

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68232133

    (Top story on BBC news now)

    Not sure the public are really aware of the 28bn green pledge. Seems to be a westminster story mostly.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    edit
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    ydoethur said:

    Please let May come back.

    Just for forty days.

    Just so Massive Johnson sees her overtake him...

    It's also about time we had another repeat PM. It would be a reassertion of parliamentary politics.
    Theresa May excepted, recent PMs seem to quit the HoC at the earliest possible opportunity, which rather buggers up their chances of a comeback.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494

    What has been fascinating about today's catastrofuck is how little control Number 10 has in the Number 10 operation. Supposedly they had spent "weeks" planning an attack on the Labour green pledge. Well that wouldn't have worked anyway.

    But having done that Sunak shats himself because "he didn't hear" what Starmer said. Right in front of him. And afterwards having realised that he has just soiled himself they have a quick discussion and decide to double down.

    And then back in Number 10 they're still thinking can we apologise and rescue it - never mind actually launch their weeks planned attack - and mad Kemi goes into bat instead to driver her leadership campaign.

    How could it be worse? Simples. Sunak is a walking talking Lizaster. And next week we have two byelections where they face getting absolutely smashed.

    Fun fun fun!

    Kemi didn’t go into battle for her campaign and leadership chances, she believes everything she said from the heart, just standing up for what she believes in, she’s the authentic woke warrior, hence why leadership favourite of this 2020’s Tory Party, just what the right wing populist media crave so much as Tory leader.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    What this demonstrates to me is that Sunak has pretty poor advisers. Whoever checked the joke script should have clocked that Mrs Ghey was in Westminster today and annotated it, ‘save for next week’. This is what they’re paid for.
  • HarperHarper Posts: 197
    ydoethur said:

    What was forecast as snow is now forecast as sleet.

    I think that's the most miserable type of weather of all. Cold. Wet. Sticky. Doesn't even look pretty.

    Yes the advantage of climates like Russia and Canada is they get proper snow not the wet rubbish we get in the uk. Good for breeding strong hard men.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    tyson said:

    carnforth said:

    When talking specifically about Brianna, didn't Sunak refer to her as a girl/woman? If so, he was right to do so but how does it sit with what he said previously?

    I will happily use whatever pronouns and name someone wants, out of politeness. But pretending, in my head, that they are actually a woman? Can't make the leap.

    Not sure there's a contradiction there, whether I'm right or wrong about the second half.
    Pronouns...it's not polite...it's clarification dumbwit. If someone called Jerry, or Toni, emails me how the hell do I know if they are a man or a woman? Similarly, how do I know with many foreign names their gender? Am I a fountain of knowledge of all global gender names?

    I fucking hate this made up culture war bollocks that the right perpetuate because they have run out of any genuine ideas to improve the world. But, heh..let's just stoke up some hatred instead....
    If you think it all comes from the right you are deluded. The reality is that left wing activists want a very different society. They have a simplistic world view in which various minority groups are to all intents and purposes the new proletariat. However this doesn't include Jews because they are deemed privileged. Fine. That is what they believe. Saying that people are fighting a 'culture war' because they happen to disagree with this stuff is childish.

    The threat to free speech in universities comes largely from the left.
    It is gender critical feminists not trans activists being questioned by the police.
    It is 'progressive' activists who supported Hamas' vitriolic attacks on 7 October
    Worst of all it is law abiding Jews living in fear not radicals Islamists*

    JK Rowling
    Hadley Freeman
    Julie Bindel
    Suzanne Moore
    Bari Weiss

    How many more victims of the left's culture war do you need?

    *You may deny that islamists are on the left to which I would simply ask - who is marching alongside them every week?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,214
    edited February 7
    viewcode said:

    Things are getting heated. Let's cool things down. Pause. What about that Brexit, eh?

    Tim Shipman @ShippersUnbound
    I'm racing to finish 'Out', the final part of my Brexit trilogy. It is finally going to be published on April 25. I'm absolutely thrilled to reveal the final cover by the matchless @mortenmorland It's an epic story packed with new nuggets Pre-order: lnkfi.re/oCRrDT


    https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1755215630226034896#m
    https://www.waterstones.com/book/out/tim-shipman/9780008308940
    Publishing date: 25 April 2024 in hardback

    That seems like a very very good reason not to have a General Election on May 2.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    edited February 7
    viewcode said:

    Things are getting heated. Let's cool things down. Pause. What about that Brexit, eh?

    Tim Shipman @ShippersUnbound
    I'm racing to finish 'Out', the final part of my Brexit trilogy. It is finally going to be published on April 25. I'm absolutely thrilled to reveal the final cover by the matchless @mortenmorland It's an epic story packed with new nuggets Pre-order: lnkfi.re/oCRrDT


    https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1755215630226034896#m
    https://www.waterstones.com/book/out/tim-shipman/9780008308940
    Publishing date: 25 April 2024 in hardback

    "...racing to finish'Out'..."

    WTAF has he been doing? It's been over six years since 'Fall Out' was published.

    I assume he's been waiting for Brexit to deliver a positive but his publishers now have told him they can't wait that long.
  • HarperHarper Posts: 197

    tyson said:

    carnforth said:

    When talking specifically about Brianna, didn't Sunak refer to her as a girl/woman? If so, he was right to do so but how does it sit with what he said previously?

    I will happily use whatever pronouns and name someone wants, out of politeness. But pretending, in my head, that they are actually a woman? Can't make the leap.

    Not sure there's a contradiction there, whether I'm right or wrong about the second half.
    Pronouns...it's not polite...it's clarification dumbwit. If someone called Jerry, or Toni, emails me how the hell do I know if they are a man or a woman? Similarly, how do I know with many foreign names their gender? Am I a fountain of knowledge of all global gender names?

    I fucking hate this made up culture war bollocks that the right perpetuate because they have run out of any genuine ideas to improve the world. But, heh..let's just stoke up some hatred instead....
    If you think it all comes from the right you are deluded. The reality is that left wing activists want a very different society. They have a simplistic world view in which various minority groups are to all intents and purposes the new proletariat. However this doesn't include Jews because they are deemed privileged. Fine. That is what they believe. Saying that people are fighting a 'culture war' because they happen to disagree with this stuff is childish.

    The threat to free speech in universities comes largely from the left.
    It is gender critical feminists not trans activists being questioned by the police.
    It is 'progressive' activists who supported Hamas' vitriolic attacks on 7 October
    Worst of all it is law abiding Jews living in fear not radicals Islamists*

    JK Rowling
    Hadley Freeman
    Julie Bindel
    Suzanne Moore
    Bari Weiss

    How many more victims of the left's culture war do you need?

    *You may deny that islamists are on the left to which I would simply ask - who is marching alongside them every week?
    Yes the views on some of the left are as batshit crazy as anything on the right. Problem is many will reflexively oppose anyhting a guy like Trump says.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,815

    ydoethur said:

    Please let May come back.

    Just for forty days.

    Just so Massive Johnson sees her overtake him...

    It's also about time we had another repeat PM. It would be a reassertion of parliamentary politics.
    Theresa May excepted, recent PMs seem to quit the HoC at the earliest possible opportunity, which rather buggers up their chances of a comeback.
    Just make em a Lord, like Dave. Not really that different to the safe seat parachutes.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,368

    ydoethur said:

    Please let May come back.

    Just for forty days.

    Just so Massive Johnson sees her overtake him...

    It's also about time we had another repeat PM. It would be a reassertion of parliamentary politics.
    Theresa May excepted, recent PMs seem to quit the HoC at the earliest possible opportunity, which rather buggers up their chances of a comeback.
    Cameron, Brown, Blair, Major, Thatcher.

    But Callaghan, Wilson, Heath, Home all stayed on for years after quitting. Indeed, Home served as Foreign Secretary under Heath before returning to the Lords in 1974.

    Equally, I suppose you could argue none of them were now 'recent...'

    (I was shocked today when one of my tutees said it was amazing how the BBC had put lots of 'old' episodes of Dr Who on iPlayer and it was amazing to see this guy Matt Smith in them...)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    ydoethur said:

    Please let May come back.

    Just for forty days.

    Just so Massive Johnson sees her overtake him...

    It's also about time we had another repeat PM. It would be a reassertion of parliamentary politics.
    Theresa May excepted, recent PMs seem to quit the HoC at the earliest possible opportunity, which rather buggers up their chances of a comeback.
    Just make em a Lord, like Dave. Not really that different to the safe seat parachutes.
    In theory the PM can be in the House of Lords but in practice they cannot.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,815

    tyson said:

    carnforth said:

    When talking specifically about Brianna, didn't Sunak refer to her as a girl/woman? If so, he was right to do so but how does it sit with what he said previously?

    I will happily use whatever pronouns and name someone wants, out of politeness. But pretending, in my head, that they are actually a woman? Can't make the leap.

    Not sure there's a contradiction there, whether I'm right or wrong about the second half.
    Pronouns...it's not polite...it's clarification dumbwit. If someone called Jerry, or Toni, emails me how the hell do I know if they are a man or a woman? Similarly, how do I know with many foreign names their gender? Am I a fountain of knowledge of all global gender names?

    I fucking hate this made up culture war bollocks that the right perpetuate because they have run out of any genuine ideas to improve the world. But, heh..let's just stoke up some hatred instead....
    If you think it all comes from the right you are deluded. The reality is that left wing activists want a very different society. They have a simplistic world view in which various minority groups are to all intents and purposes the new proletariat. However this doesn't include Jews because they are deemed privileged. Fine. That is what they believe. Saying that people are fighting a 'culture war' because they happen to disagree with this stuff is childish.

    The threat to free speech in universities comes largely from the left.
    It is gender critical feminists not trans activists being questioned by the police.
    It is 'progressive' activists who supported Hamas' vitriolic attacks on 7 October
    Worst of all it is law abiding Jews living in fear not radicals Islamists*

    JK Rowling
    Hadley Freeman
    Julie Bindel
    Suzanne Moore
    Bari Weiss

    How many more victims of the left's culture war do you need?

    *You may deny that islamists are on the left to which I would simply ask - who is marching alongside them every week?
    Extremists often have more in common with their bitterest enemies than the rest of us.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,815

    ydoethur said:

    Please let May come back.

    Just for forty days.

    Just so Massive Johnson sees her overtake him...

    It's also about time we had another repeat PM. It would be a reassertion of parliamentary politics.
    Theresa May excepted, recent PMs seem to quit the HoC at the earliest possible opportunity, which rather buggers up their chances of a comeback.
    Just make em a Lord, like Dave. Not really that different to the safe seat parachutes.
    In theory the PM can be in the House of Lords but in practice they cannot.
    Why not? Denied the wonderful debating of PMQs? Good riddance.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    So do Labour really think the Tories won’t now attack them for u-turning .

    And one of the criticisms of Starmer is he doesn’t seem to stand for much . So now he stands for even less .

    What other policies will Labour drop because the Tories criticized them . I find the Labour strategy bizarre . The public after 14 years are willing to turn a page and are more receptive to Labour and they will now be framed as you can’t trust them not to ditch things in their manifesto .

    The biggest danger to a Labour win seems to be Labour itself .
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129

    Scott_xP said:

    @kaitlancollins

    A federal judge has denied Trump’s motions for a mistrial in the E. Jean Carroll defamation case.

    I only really looked this up recently - I lose track of all his cases. As far as I can gather, the facts are these.
    • This lady is an author who has previously written a novel where she imagines being raped by a powerful politician.
    • She decides to accuse Trump after attending a Democrat Party where she's persuaded to do so.
    • There are no witnesses, and literally zero corroboration for her account, except two friends who say that she told them.
    • It's not been proven in a court of law, nor would it ever reach one.
    Yet Trump now owes her £80mill for trashing her reputation by denying rape.

    I am reminded of the 'just because you're paranoid' aphorism.
    A jury of twelve people heard all the evidence.

    They decided that - on balance of probabilities - she had been sexually assaulted.

    Generally juries get things right. Not always, but generally. And it's not as if Trump will have lacked proper legal representation.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    MattW said:

    ...

    Ghedebrav said:

    AlsoLei said:

    Phantom thread related rather than this one, but Sunak went badly wrong in the first five seconds of his answer well before the controversial bit. Grinning inanely whilst boasting about waiting lists coming down. It is a message that is key but just cannot be delivered with tiggerish enthusiasm and no empathy.

    The takeaway for me is not really the controversy but a re-enforcement of my view that Sunak is really really bad at being PM and will get hammered in a campaign. Therefore, sorry Brenda, but we shall have two new PMs this year.

    How do we get there from here, though?

    In the past, Tory splits were fairly straightforward - wet vs dry, pro-Europe vs sceptic, moderniser vs core values, anti-Brexit vs pro, populism vs managerialism.

    But now the party's split at least five or six ways, and the fracture lines run all over the map. Why risk an abbreviated contest that would risk leaving the wrong faction on top after the election? Better to put up with an incompetent-but-biddable Sunak for now, and have a proper deathmatch leadership election next year.
    I certainly wouldn't rule out a VONC and subsequent leadership contest, especially if the locals are particularly bad (they may well be). But there are only fruitcakes and loons; half the parliamentary party is retiring (including much of the not-mental wing) and will be eyeing directorships and after-dinner jobs - will they have have the stomach to fight a Braverman coronation, or just think 'fuck it, I'm out, let them burn their own house down'?

    Tough times to be a Tory.
    The Tories were wanting to appoint Neil Warnock as caretaker manager until the end of the season, but he’s just signed up with Aberdeen, so is unavailable.
    Is Big Sam available? Alternatively ISAM.

    The father of murdered transgender teenager Brianna Ghey has demanded an apology from Rishi Sunak, saying he was "shocked" by the prime minister's comments in the Commons today.

    Speaking to Sky News, Peter Spooner said Mr Sunak's remarks during PMQs, which the schoolgirl's mother Esther attended, were "degrading" and "absolutely dehumanising".

    He said: "As the prime minister for our country to come out with degrading comments like he did, regardless of them being in relation to discussions in parliament, they are absolutely dehumanising.

    "Identities of people should not be used in that manner, and I personally feel shocked by his comments and feel he should apologise for his remarks."


    https://news.sky.com/story/brianna-gheys-father-demands-apology-from-pm-after-trans-jibe-in-commons-13066231

    Fortunately the BBC seems to be hiding the story on Radio 4 after Blinken, Tucker, and a couple of others. Shelagh Fogarty on LBC was more critical of Starmer than Sunak.
    Not sure if PB has this yet (still comments to read), but it seems that Tucker Carlson's claim that journalists have not bothered to approach Putin for an interview has been debunked by (I think) Sergei Lavrov pointing out that loads have approached, but they aren't interested in talking to them, as they will 'distort' the situation.

    This is Carlson continuing his career as a useful idiot.

    Indeed: I wouldn't be surprised if the in house newspaper of the British Communist Party ran interviews with politbureau members during the cold war.

    It did not make them serious journalistic endeavors.
This discussion has been closed.