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Punters give Trump a 79% chance of winning every state primary – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited February 15 in General
imagePunters give Trump a 79% chance of winning every state primary – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 30,706
    First - like Biden!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,916
    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 46,805
    Third!
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,339
    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    "That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?"

    This cannot be true. You listen to most of the leftwing posters you mentioned and PB is a den of right wingers with a few left wing voices.

    Must be the case.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,677
    The only one where Trump might not win is DC. Bid price currently unbackable.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 46,805
    edited February 7
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    "That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?"

    This cannot be true. You listen to most of the leftwing posters you mentioned and PB is a den of right wingers with a few left wing voices.

    Must be the case.
    Leon is just projecting again. There are plenty of other right-leaning folk on here, from TSE and RCS through edmund, topping, and many others.

    If Leon means right-wing headcases, he might have a better argument. But then that's a small minority group in this country, thankfully. And of them, finding those who can type using actual words narrows it down even more.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,473
    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    I haven't noticed much leftism in EvanGladne's output. It's quite balanced.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,803
    DavidL said:

    FPT but much more on topic here:

    The wheels of the American justice system grind exceedingly slow but there has been an important change of pace in the last week or so.

    The Court of Appeals found that Trump did not have immunity. Basically because the Constitution doesn't say he has whilst it does grant limited immunity elsewhere. This type of reasoning is somewhat problematic for an Originalist based SC. Trump says he will appeal of course but he does not have a right to a hearing in the SC and they just might say no.

    The CFO of Trump's businesses is negotiating a plea bargain on perjury. He was the principal witness on financial matters in the fraud case in New York. Justice Erdogan wants to know about it. By today. The question of who suborned Alan Weisselberg to commit that perjury is next up on the rank but even as a starter this has the potential to make appealing Erdogan's judgment more difficult and justify even harsher penalties.

    The hearing on whether Trump is able to be on the ballot at all goes before the SC tomorrow. I think the oral submissions are down for 2 days. As it is, I think that case encourages Haley to hang on in there as the last (wo)man standing if they rule against him.

    My observation for the morning is that all 3 of these carry significant risk factors for Trump that do not seem to be reflected in his odds of being either the nominee or the next President.

    The Supreme Court will clear Trump's path.

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,498
    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    You sound like Liz Truss at PopCon the other day, decrying the socialist civil service, OBR and Supreme Court.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,308
    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    The wheel of fortune will turn.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,381

    DavidL said:

    FPT but much more on topic here:

    The wheels of the American justice system grind exceedingly slow but there has been an important change of pace in the last week or so.

    The Court of Appeals found that Trump did not have immunity. Basically because the Constitution doesn't say he has whilst it does grant limited immunity elsewhere. This type of reasoning is somewhat problematic for an Originalist based SC. Trump says he will appeal of course but he does not have a right to a hearing in the SC and they just might say no.

    The CFO of Trump's businesses is negotiating a plea bargain on perjury. He was the principal witness on financial matters in the fraud case in New York. Justice Erdogan wants to know about it. By today. The question of who suborned Alan Weisselberg to commit that perjury is next up on the rank but even as a starter this has the potential to make appealing Erdogan's judgment more difficult and justify even harsher penalties.

    The hearing on whether Trump is able to be on the ballot at all goes before the SC tomorrow. I think the oral submissions are down for 2 days. As it is, I think that case encourages Haley to hang on in there as the last (wo)man standing if they rule against him.

    My observation for the morning is that all 3 of these carry significant risk factors for Trump that do not seem to be reflected in his odds of being either the nominee or the next President.

    The Supreme Court will clear Trump's path.

    Probably, but it remains a risk. Trump will not be winning all these primaries if he is not allowed on the ballot. And we will have a decision before most of them.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 4,384
    Taz said:
    Sunak couldn’t care less about global instability if it gives him a better chance at the GE . Not sure why some observers think the Tories will do anything but look after their own interests .
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,916

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    The wheel of fortune will turn.
    It might, of course, indeed it probably will

    Bur my God PB leftwingers - all of them, I think - are boring, stolid, and unfunny, so it is quite a chore enduring the cycle
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,916
    But one must accept the turning of the seasons, one cannot fight the arrival of winter, not hasten the advent of spring

    I shall abide on my balcony, and sip Kiwi Sauv Blanc, and listen to The Lark Ascending
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,803
    nico679 said:

    Taz said:
    Sunak couldn’t care less about global instability if it gives him a better chance at the GE . Not sure why some observers think the Tories will do anything but look after their own interests .

    Going early significantly reduces the the chances of the Trump/GOP betrayal of Ukraine being an election issue. Given how many senior Tories are very vocal Trump backers that has to be a positive for the Tories.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,311
    Trump may well win all GOP primaries or caucuses on current polls, unless the SC rules he can be removed from ballots
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,333

    DavidL said:

    FPT but much more on topic here:

    The wheels of the American justice system grind exceedingly slow but there has been an important change of pace in the last week or so.

    The Court of Appeals found that Trump did not have immunity. Basically because the Constitution doesn't say he has whilst it does grant limited immunity elsewhere. This type of reasoning is somewhat problematic for an Originalist based SC. Trump says he will appeal of course but he does not have a right to a hearing in the SC and they just might say no.

    The CFO of Trump's businesses is negotiating a plea bargain on perjury. He was the principal witness on financial matters in the fraud case in New York. Justice Erdogan wants to know about it. By today. The question of who suborned Alan Weisselberg to commit that perjury is next up on the rank but even as a starter this has the potential to make appealing Erdogan's judgment more difficult and justify even harsher penalties.

    The hearing on whether Trump is able to be on the ballot at all goes before the SC tomorrow. I think the oral submissions are down for 2 days. As it is, I think that case encourages Haley to hang on in there as the last (wo)man standing if they rule against him.

    My observation for the morning is that all 3 of these carry significant risk factors for Trump that do not seem to be reflected in his odds of being either the nominee or the next President.

    The Supreme Court will clear Trump's path.

    I’m not so sure.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,098
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    I haven't noticed much leftism in EvanGladne's output. It's quite balanced.
    Best poster on here imho. I've never had a problem with any posts from Evan.

    Feel sad for LuckyGuy and DavidL and MaxPB (and Bart? Although he's woke liberal right wing, so maybe exlcuded) not making the rightwingers of note cut :disappointed: Not nutty enough, I guess
    (Apologies if any of you feel mislabelled, but I'd put you right of centre, but maybe that's my skewed woke leftie academic viewpoint)

    Also sad not to get my own shout out within the RMWHLIFSBofTLPB :disappointed:
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,916
    edited February 7
    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    I haven't noticed much leftism in EvanGladne's output. It's quite balanced.
    Best poster on here imho. I've never had a problem with any posts from Evan.

    Feel sad for LuckyGuy and DavidL and MaxPB (and Bart? Although he's woke liberal right wing, so maybe exlcuded) not making the rightwingers of note cut :disappointed: Not nutty enough, I guess
    (Apologies if any of you feel mislabelled, but I'd put you right of centre, but maybe that's my skewed woke leftie academic viewpoint)

    Also sad not to get my own shout out within the RMWHLIFSBofTLPB :disappointed:
    I'm sorry, who are you?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 4,129
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    The wheel of fortune will turn.
    It might, of course, indeed it probably will

    Bur my God PB leftwingers - all of them, I think - are boring, stolid, and unfunny, so it is quite a chore enduring the cycle
    The only consistently genuinely funny PBer is still around though - not sure if you would categorise them as a 'leftwinger' or not.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,098
    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    I haven't noticed much leftism in EvanGladne's output. It's quite balanced.
    Best poster on here imho. I've never had a problem with any posts from Evan.

    Feel sad for LuckyGuy and DavidL and MaxPB (and Bart? Although he's woke liberal right wing, so maybe exlcuded) not making the rightwingers of note cut :disappointed: Not nutty enough, I guess
    (Apologies if any of you feel mislabelled, but I'd put you right of centre, but maybe that's my skewed woke leftie academic viewpoint)

    Also sad not to get my own shout out within the RMWHLIFSBofTLPB :disappointed:
    I'm sorry, who are you?
    Apology accepted! :smile:
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,473
    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    I haven't noticed much leftism in EvanGladne's output. It's quite balanced.
    Best poster on here imho. I've never had a problem with any posts from Evan.

    Feel sad for LuckyGuy and DavidL and MaxPB (and Bart? Although he's woke liberal right wing, so maybe exlcuded) not making the rightwingers of note cut :disappointed: Not nutty enough, I guess
    (Apologies if any of you feel mislabelled, but I'd put you right of centre, but maybe that's my skewed woke leftie academic viewpoint)

    Also sad not to get my own shout out within the RMWHLIFSBofTLPB :disappointed:
    He's great. Doesn't feel the need to have an opinion on everything under the sun.
  • Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    I would have been disappointed not to end up on your shit list.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 8,669
    Leon said:

    But one must accept the turning of the seasons, one cannot fight the arrival of winter, not hasten the advent of spring

    I shall abide on my balcony, and sip Kiwi Sauv Blanc, and listen to The Lark Ascending

    If you're feeling miserable about the woke lefty takeover of PB then you should be listening to miserable Lenten music. Shrove Tuesday is next week so it's not too soon to get into some proper wrist-slashing Lotti, Victoria, McMillan or Allegri. Maybe the Bach St Matthew passion. Or the TwiX-like Poulenc Quatre Motets, written for Lent in 1939, with their finger-pointing accusations of cowardice and betrayal dripping off the weird angular score.

    In your right wing star chamber you left out MarqueeMark and LuckyGuy, and I am sure there are more. From what I can tell the modal demographic on here is neither lefty nor markedly right wing but remains Cameronian Tory wet.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,916
    edited February 7
    I have forgotten that many of you are new here, comparatively. PB has been going a long time

    @EvanGladne was a major poster from about 2008-2016, and relentlessly right-on and feminazi. Absolutely spammed the threads, and got quite personally aggressive with @YHMWilhelm amd @ZoilaGroth

    It all came to a head when she stole a car in Newent and drove south to actually attack poor @Aberjeffrey in his motorised buggy in a W H Smiths car park near Yeovil and @pillsbury called the coppers, she actually did three weeks inside. It is the only actual case of a PB fight and arrest (apart from @BigIan and @LondonBob of course, but that was more sexual)
  • TimSTimS Posts: 8,669
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    The wheel of fortune will turn.
    It might, of course, indeed it probably will

    Bur my God PB leftwingers - all of them, I think - are boring, stolid, and unfunny, so it is quite a chore enduring the cycle
    The only consistently genuinely funny PBer is still around though - not sure if you would categorise them as a 'leftwinger' or not.
    You refer presumably to the Will Self of PB.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 4,129
    TimS said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    The wheel of fortune will turn.
    It might, of course, indeed it probably will

    Bur my God PB leftwingers - all of them, I think - are boring, stolid, and unfunny, so it is quite a chore enduring the cycle
    The only consistently genuinely funny PBer is still around though - not sure if you would categorise them as a 'leftwinger' or not.
    You refer presumably to the Will Self of PB.
    Who's Will Self?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 8,669
    kamski said:

    TimS said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    The wheel of fortune will turn.
    It might, of course, indeed it probably will

    Bur my God PB leftwingers - all of them, I think - are boring, stolid, and unfunny, so it is quite a chore enduring the cycle
    The only consistently genuinely funny PBer is still around though - not sure if you would categorise them as a 'leftwinger' or not.
    You refer presumably to the Will Self of PB.
    Who's Will Self?
    Dura?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 4,129
    TimS said:

    kamski said:

    TimS said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    The wheel of fortune will turn.
    It might, of course, indeed it probably will

    Bur my God PB leftwingers - all of them, I think - are boring, stolid, and unfunny, so it is quite a chore enduring the cycle
    The only consistently genuinely funny PBer is still around though - not sure if you would categorise them as a 'leftwinger' or not.
    You refer presumably to the Will Self of PB.
    Who's Will Self?
    Dura?
    Of course! Everyone know who I meant don't they?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,591
    edited February 7
    DavidL said:

    FPT but much more on topic here:

    The wheels of the American justice system grind exceedingly slow but there has been an important change of pace in the last week or so.

    The Court of Appeals found that Trump did not have immunity. Basically because the Constitution doesn't say he has whilst it does grant limited immunity elsewhere. This type of reasoning is somewhat problematic for an Originalist based SC. Trump says he will appeal of course but he does not have a right to a hearing in the SC and they just might say no.

    The CFO of Trump's businesses is negotiating a plea bargain on perjury. He was the principal witness on financial matters in the fraud case in New York. Justice Erdogan wants to know about it. By today. The question of who suborned Alan Weisselberg to commit that perjury is next up on the rank but even as a starter this has the potential to make appealing Erdogan's judgment more difficult and justify even harsher penalties.

    The hearing on whether Trump is able to be on the ballot at all goes before the SC tomorrow. I think the oral submissions are down for 2 days. As it is, I think that case encourages Haley to hang on in there as the last (wo)man standing if they rule against him.

    My observation for the morning is that all 3 of these carry significant risk factors for Trump that do not seem to be reflected in his odds of being either the nominee or the next President.

    My response FPT:

    Your faith in judicial proceedings is heartening. But I can't shake the feeling that it is all entirely immaterial.

    Trump instigated a storming of the Capitol (where someone was shot dead and staffers fled in fear of sexual assault), and he's openly discussing dictatorship and reprisal. His minions are interviewing Putin and voting against aid for Ukraine.

    Yet he remains miles ahead of any other Republican. A few disapproving judgments from distant judges is not going to upset the enormous popular mandate he now has.

    I think we should actually BRACE for once
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,473
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    But one must accept the turning of the seasons, one cannot fight the arrival of winter, not hasten the advent of spring

    I shall abide on my balcony, and sip Kiwi Sauv Blanc, and listen to The Lark Ascending

    If you're feeling miserable about the woke lefty takeover of PB then you should be listening to miserable Lenten music. Shrove Tuesday is next week so it's not too soon to get into some proper wrist-slashing Lotti, Victoria, McMillan or Allegri. Maybe the Bach St Matthew passion. Or the TwiX-like Poulenc Quatre Motets, written for Lent in 1939, with their finger-pointing accusations of cowardice and betrayal dripping off the weird angular score.

    In your right wing star chamber you left out MarqueeMark and LuckyGuy, and I am sure there are more. From what I can tell the modal demographic on here is neither lefty nor markedly right wing but remains Cameronian Tory wet.
    The most right-wing poster in the house, our Sir Simon Clarke if you will, is TheKitchenCabinet. Effective too. Lots of repetition, no deviation.
  • There is a solution to all of us stupid people who cannot see the Truth and the Light that is Leon. Simply start a new discussion forum! It worked for Trump - driven off Twitter by the idiot libtards he simply created his own forum WHERE EVERY POST CAN BE IN CAPS.

    Personally I like having people of different political persuasions. But if Leon can't cope with people who aren't his supplicants, the opportunity to start a new forum is always there.

    How about WOKE-NO. Or AIALIENDEFENDERS.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,532
    Leon said:

    I have forgotten that many of you are new here, comparatively. PB has been going a long time

    @EvanGladne was a major poster from about 2008-2016, and relentlessly right-on and feminazi. Absolutely spammed the threads, and got quite personally aggressive with @YHMWilhelm amd @ZoilaGroth

    It all came to a head when she stole a car in Newent and drove south to actually attack poor @Aberjeffrey in his motorised buggy in a W H Smiths car park near Yeovil and @pillsbury called the coppers, she actually did three weeks inside. It is the only actual case of a PB fight and arrest (apart from @BigIan and @LondonBob of course, but that was more sexual)

    You seem to have had quite a bit of practice in making up usernames.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,840
    January Services PMI:

    UK 54.3
    USA 52.5

    Biden's investment in new industrial production is the right thing to do.

    But the number of people who directly and quickly benefit is limited, very limited.

    Biden could really do with more feel good consumption working into the economy before November.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,916
    I think we should all pay respects to Tim

    He was the last genuinely funny leftwinger on PB, also a brutally effective debater, sometimes

    OK a bit of a dick, and possibly misogynist, and a terrible liar. But still, funny

    SIGH
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,473
    Eabhal said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT but much more on topic here:

    The wheels of the American justice system grind exceedingly slow but there has been an important change of pace in the last week or so.

    The Court of Appeals found that Trump did not have immunity. Basically because the Constitution doesn't say he has whilst it does grant limited immunity elsewhere. This type of reasoning is somewhat problematic for an Originalist based SC. Trump says he will appeal of course but he does not have a right to a hearing in the SC and they just might say no.

    The CFO of Trump's businesses is negotiating a plea bargain on perjury. He was the principal witness on financial matters in the fraud case in New York. Justice Erdogan wants to know about it. By today. The question of who suborned Alan Weisselberg to commit that perjury is next up on the rank but even as a starter this has the potential to make appealing Erdogan's judgment more difficult and justify even harsher penalties.

    The hearing on whether Trump is able to be on the ballot at all goes before the SC tomorrow. I think the oral submissions are down for 2 days. As it is, I think that case encourages Haley to hang on in there as the last (wo)man standing if they rule against him.

    My observation for the morning is that all 3 of these carry significant risk factors for Trump that do not seem to be reflected in his odds of being either the nominee or the next President.

    My response FPT:

    Your faith in judicial proceedings is heartening. But I can't shake the feeling that it is all entirely immaterial.

    Trump instigated a storming of the Capitol (where someone was shot dead and staffers fled in fear of sexual assault), and he's openly discussing dictatorship and reprisal. His minions are interviewing Putin and voting against aid for Ukraine.

    Yet he remains miles ahead of any other Republican. A few disapproving judgments from distant judges is not going to upset the enormous popular mandate he now has.

    I think we should actually BRACE for once
    Yes for sure. However I do think the chance of neither Trump nor Biden being on the ballot in November is a fair bit higher than current odds imply.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    The wheel of fortune will turn.
    It might, of course, indeed it probably will

    Bur my God PB leftwingers - all of them, I think - are boring, stolid, and unfunny, so it is quite a chore enduring the cycle
    I can't think of anyone particularly funny on PB, right or left. Malc is funny but his politics are somewhat unique for the site. Casino was funny in same way that the Joe Pesci character was funny in Goodfellas - a sort of nervous laugh at the threat of imminent violence.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,768
    I'm comme ci, comme ça over CR.

    On one hand, the periodic meltdowns are undeniably entertainment of the first rate. Like Michael Barrymore doing "Backstreet's Back".

    On the other hand, his tin-pot tory, social climbing, monarchist fuck-piece act is pure cringe. Like Michael Barrymore doing "Backstreets' Back".
  • TimSTimS Posts: 8,669
    I was looking through the script for an intro video we're doing for an upcoming conference. You know the sort: dramatic music, scratchy TV tuning effects, news pictures of dramatic and terrible things happening around the world, then some tenuous link with the topic of the actual conference.

    It struck me that a lot of the dramatic end of world stuff was a bit old hat and that actually looking between the lines there are a few pieces of good news. There's no longer an energy crisis. Debt and Equity markets are pretty stable. Inflation and interest rates have peaked and inflation is now coming down globally. The US and China seem to be getting on a bit better. We feel a few steps further from Ukraine related nuclear armageddon than 2 years ago. The only really novel threats are the fallout from the Israel-Gaza conflict but we've been there many times before, the rise of AI, and the prospect of a Trump-induced trade war.

    I told them to cut out some of the older hat stuff and focus on what's really new, and maybe even include a few good things.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,677
    Have we covered this ?

    Nikki Haley loses to "none of the above" in Nevada !

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68225999

    :D:D:D
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,473
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    The wheel of fortune will turn.
    It might, of course, indeed it probably will

    Bur my God PB leftwingers - all of them, I think - are boring, stolid, and unfunny, so it is quite a chore enduring the cycle
    I can't think of anyone particularly funny on PB, right or left. Malc is funny but his politics are somewhat unique for the site. Casino was funny in same way that the Joe Pesci character was funny in Goodfellas - a sort of nervous laugh at the threat of imminent violence.
    I'm quite funny. I must be because I always have a little chuckle after posting something.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,803
    What happened to Casino Royale? The last I heard of him he was accusing me of blind partisanship for pointing out that the many prominent Tories who support Trump are backing someone who is actively working to undermine key UK security and economic interests. That was only yesterday.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,420
    edited February 7
    TimS said:

    I told them to cut out some of the older hat stuff and focus on what's really new, and maybe even include a few good things.

    Does the older hat stuff include negativity about Brexit?

    Composite PMIs:

    🇬🇧 52.9
    🇪🇸 51.5
    🇮🇹 50.7
    🇩🇪 47.0
    🇫🇷 44.6
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,768

    What happened to Casino Royale? The last I heard of him he was accusing me of blind partisanship for pointing out that the many prominent Tories who support Trump are backing someone who is actively working to undermine key UK security and economic interests. That was only yesterday.

    Wanted to fight 148grss IRL because 148 referred to the king as "Chaz".

    148 was fucking well up for it, then CR flounced. 👌
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,677
    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    The wheel of fortune will turn.
    It might, of course, indeed it probably will

    Bur my God PB leftwingers - all of them, I think - are boring, stolid, and unfunny, so it is quite a chore enduring the cycle
    I can't think of anyone particularly funny on PB, right or left. Malc is funny but his politics are somewhat unique for the site. Casino was funny in same way that the Joe Pesci character was funny in Goodfellas - a sort of nervous laugh at the threat of imminent violence.
    I'm quite funny. I must be because I always have a little chuckle after posting something.
    You've went through a very good tipping spell recently too iirc. I think your prediction of a non Trump-Biden race is going to come a cropper though.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,677

    TimS said:

    I told them to cut out some of the older hat stuff and focus on what's really new, and maybe even include a few good things.

    Does the older hat stuff include negativity about Brexit?

    Composite PMIs:

    🇬🇧 52.9
    🇪🇸 51.5
    🇮🇹 50.7
    🇩🇪 47.0
    🇫🇷 44.6
    Keep it quiet, the Sheriffs of Nottingham at the BoE will never lower rates at this rate.
  • TimS said:

    I was looking through the script for an intro video we're doing for an upcoming conference. You know the sort: dramatic music, scratchy TV tuning effects, news pictures of dramatic and terrible things happening around the world, then some tenuous link with the topic of the actual conference.

    It struck me that a lot of the dramatic end of world stuff was a bit old hat and that actually looking between the lines there are a few pieces of good news. There's no longer an energy crisis. Debt and Equity markets are pretty stable. Inflation and interest rates have peaked and inflation is now coming down globally. The US and China seem to be getting on a bit better. We feel a few steps further from Ukraine related nuclear armageddon than 2 years ago. The only really novel threats are the fallout from the Israel-Gaza conflict but we've been there many times before, the rise of AI, and the prospect of a Trump-induced trade war.

    I told them to cut out some of the older hat stuff and focus on what's really new, and maybe even include a few good things.

    With respect, your most pressing problem seems to be which colour stone you're going to go with in the refurb of your French vineyard garden wall.
    The vast majority of the UK population are still facing insane prices, higher mortgages and expensive energy. The roads are shite, no one can get a doctor's appointment and Dentists are rarer than sane Tories. It's grim out there.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,026
    edited February 7
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT but much more on topic here:

    The wheels of the American justice system grind exceedingly slow but there has been an important change of pace in the last week or so.

    The Court of Appeals found that Trump did not have immunity. Basically because the Constitution doesn't say he has whilst it does grant limited immunity elsewhere. This type of reasoning is somewhat problematic for an Originalist based SC. Trump says he will appeal of course but he does not have a right to a hearing in the SC and they just might say no.

    The CFO of Trump's businesses is negotiating a plea bargain on perjury. He was the principal witness on financial matters in the fraud case in New York. Justice Erdogan wants to know about it. By today. The question of who suborned Alan Weisselberg to commit that perjury is next up on the rank but even as a starter this has the potential to make appealing Erdogan's judgment more difficult and justify even harsher penalties.

    The hearing on whether Trump is able to be on the ballot at all goes before the SC tomorrow. I think the oral submissions are down for 2 days. As it is, I think that case encourages Haley to hang on in there as the last (wo)man standing if they rule against him.

    My observation for the morning is that all 3 of these carry significant risk factors for Trump that do not seem to be reflected in his odds of being either the nominee or the next President.

    The Supreme Court will clear Trump's path.

    Probably, but it remains a risk. Trump will not be winning all these primaries if he is not allowed on the ballot. And we will have a decision before most of them.
    What odds on the SC's decision? Better or worse than evens for Trump to get the green light? If the header is to be believed it must be better than 4:1 on.

  • TimSTimS Posts: 8,669

    TimS said:

    I was looking through the script for an intro video we're doing for an upcoming conference. You know the sort: dramatic music, scratchy TV tuning effects, news pictures of dramatic and terrible things happening around the world, then some tenuous link with the topic of the actual conference.

    It struck me that a lot of the dramatic end of world stuff was a bit old hat and that actually looking between the lines there are a few pieces of good news. There's no longer an energy crisis. Debt and Equity markets are pretty stable. Inflation and interest rates have peaked and inflation is now coming down globally. The US and China seem to be getting on a bit better. We feel a few steps further from Ukraine related nuclear armageddon than 2 years ago. The only really novel threats are the fallout from the Israel-Gaza conflict but we've been there many times before, the rise of AI, and the prospect of a Trump-induced trade war.

    I told them to cut out some of the older hat stuff and focus on what's really new, and maybe even include a few good things.

    With respect, your most pressing problem seems to be which colour stone you're going to go with in the refurb of your French vineyard garden wall.
    The vast majority of the UK population are still facing insane prices, higher mortgages and expensive energy. The roads are shite, no one can get a doctor's appointment and Dentists are rarer than sane Tories. It's grim out there.
    The audience for this isn't British, it's a global event. They all face cost of living issues and demographic stagnation but the end of world stuff is a bit old hat (fingers crossed). A similar video was played at last year's event. Compared with back then things look a tad brighter (see PMI numbers this morning too).

    My vineyard is in Kent by the way.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,952
    Trump should try injecting himself with blueberries. I hear those are good for immunity.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,677
    geoffw said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT but much more on topic here:

    The wheels of the American justice system grind exceedingly slow but there has been an important change of pace in the last week or so.

    The Court of Appeals found that Trump did not have immunity. Basically because the Constitution doesn't say he has whilst it does grant limited immunity elsewhere. This type of reasoning is somewhat problematic for an Originalist based SC. Trump says he will appeal of course but he does not have a right to a hearing in the SC and they just might say no.

    The CFO of Trump's businesses is negotiating a plea bargain on perjury. He was the principal witness on financial matters in the fraud case in New York. Justice Erdogan wants to know about it. By today. The question of who suborned Alan Weisselberg to commit that perjury is next up on the rank but even as a starter this has the potential to make appealing Erdogan's judgment more difficult and justify even harsher penalties.

    The hearing on whether Trump is able to be on the ballot at all goes before the SC tomorrow. I think the oral submissions are down for 2 days. As it is, I think that case encourages Haley to hang on in there as the last (wo)man standing if they rule against him.

    My observation for the morning is that all 3 of these carry significant risk factors for Trump that do not seem to be reflected in his odds of being either the nominee or the next President.

    The Supreme Court will clear Trump's path.

    Probably, but it remains a risk. Trump will not be winning all these primaries if he is not allowed on the ballot. And we will have a decision before most of them.
    What odds on the SC's decision? Better or worse than evens for Trump to get the green light? If the header is to be believed it must be better than 4:1 on.

    I predict they'll make sure he gets on the ballot in a way that annoys Biden's lot as much as possible. Some uncommented strike down of a lower court or some such.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,126
    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    "That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?"

    This cannot be true. You listen to most of the leftwing posters you mentioned and PB is a den of right wingers with a few left wing voices.

    Must be the case.
    Leon is just projecting again. There are plenty of other right-leaning folk on here, from TSE and RCS through edmund, topping, and many others.

    If Leon means right-wing headcases, he might have a better argument. But then that's a small minority group in this country, thankfully. And of them, finding those who can type using actual words narrows it down even more.
    If you mean me I don't think I'm right-wing what with being a member of the Labour Party and so forth, although I take the point that I might have been back when right-wing meant "free markets, deregulation and fighting Communism" rather than whatever it is now.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 60,485
    edited February 7
    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    What did poor @williamglenn and @Luckyguy1983 do to offend you ?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059

    What happened to Casino Royale? The last I heard of him he was accusing me of blind partisanship for pointing out that the many prominent Tories who support Trump are backing someone who is actively working to undermine key UK security and economic interests. That was only yesterday.

    You missed yesterday's lunchtime drama over "Chaz"?! Go have a read.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 60,485
    Endillion said:

    Trump should try injecting himself with blueberries. I hear those are good for immunity.

    It might achieve a better colour balance.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 3,552
    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    Hey - I was involved in Casino's stropping off - I at least deserve to be in the group of festering smelly twatty leftwingers!

    I also hope they haven't left permanently - when Charles does finally pop it it would be fun to know there's at least one person that can be easily wound up by my not really giving a shit.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,473
    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    The wheel of fortune will turn.
    It might, of course, indeed it probably will

    Bur my God PB leftwingers - all of them, I think - are boring, stolid, and unfunny, so it is quite a chore enduring the cycle
    I can't think of anyone particularly funny on PB, right or left. Malc is funny but his politics are somewhat unique for the site. Casino was funny in same way that the Joe Pesci character was funny in Goodfellas - a sort of nervous laugh at the threat of imminent violence.
    I'm quite funny. I must be because I always have a little chuckle after posting something.
    You've went through a very good tipping spell recently too iirc. I think your prediction of a non Trump-Biden race is going to come a cropper though.
    Thank you for noticing! :smile:

    My PB peak, though, was in the Mrs May Brexit era, tipping against No Deal and 2nd Ref at silly short prices. Have not quite regained that groove. But we keep trying.

    Trump v Biden? Yes it looks that way, doesn't it. But, you know, Joe looks so fragile, and the Trump situation is unstable with his legal issues and his erratic hubristic behaviour.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 3,552
    Dura_Ace said:

    What happened to Casino Royale? The last I heard of him he was accusing me of blind partisanship for pointing out that the many prominent Tories who support Trump are backing someone who is actively working to undermine key UK security and economic interests. That was only yesterday.

    Wanted to fight 148grss IRL because 148 referred to the king as "Chaz".

    148 was fucking well up for it, then CR flounced. 👌
    I didn't call Charles "Chaz" - someone else did and I told Casino to fuck off. Then I apparently won over Topping's heart.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,529
    Have you thought, @Leon, that this board might actually be representative of the country? And there are very few right-wingers left?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,069
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    "That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?"

    This cannot be true. You listen to most of the leftwing posters you mentioned and PB is a den of right wingers with a few left wing voices.

    Must be the case.
    I reckon PBers overall have have cast more votes for the Tories than for Labour through their lives. But then right wing doesn’t equate with Conservative vote these days - if you are pro Brexit, anti woke right wing then you are not necessarily in same place in UK politics these days as many people who say the Conservative Party their natural home for so much of their lives.

    We shouldn’t get sucked into seeing PB or UK politics as straightforward binary choice.

    Indeed Corbynista and Starmer 2nd hand new Labour, and blukip and moderate Tories should be having passioned ding dongs with each other - on the same half of political spectrum, without being dismissed as from the other political wing.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 42,838

    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    "That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?"

    This cannot be true. You listen to most of the leftwing posters you mentioned and PB is a den of right wingers with a few left wing voices.

    Must be the case.
    Leon is just projecting again. There are plenty of other right-leaning folk on here, from TSE and RCS through edmund, topping, and many others.

    If Leon means right-wing headcases, he might have a better argument. But then that's a small minority group in this country, thankfully. And of them, finding those who can type using actual words narrows it down even more.
    If you mean me I don't think I'm right-wing what with being a member of the Labour Party and so forth, although I take the point that I might have been back when right-wing meant "free markets, deregulation and fighting Communism" rather than whatever it is now.
    Being a member of the Labour Party means you support Keir “Kid Starver, Genocide” Starmer.

    So you are Literally Worse Than…. Starmer?

    Didn’t you get the memo?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 42,838

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    "That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?"

    This cannot be true. You listen to most of the leftwing posters you mentioned and PB is a den of right wingers with a few left wing voices.

    Must be the case.
    I reckon PBers overall have have cast more votes for the Tories than for Labour through their lives. But then right wing doesn’t equate with Conservative vote these days - if you are pro Brexit, anti woke right wing then you are not necessarily in same place in UK politics these days as many people who say the Conservative Party their natural home for so much of their lives.

    We shouldn’t get sucked into seeing PB or UK politics as straightforward binary choice.

    Indeed Corbynista and Starmer 2nd hand new Labour, and blukip and moderate Tories should be having passioned ding dongs with each other - on the same half of political spectrum, without being dismissed as from the other political wing.
    What’s the line? - “I didn’t leave the party. The party left me.”
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 3,552

    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    "That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?"

    This cannot be true. You listen to most of the leftwing posters you mentioned and PB is a den of right wingers with a few left wing voices.

    Must be the case.
    Leon is just projecting again. There are plenty of other right-leaning folk on here, from TSE and RCS through edmund, topping, and many others.

    If Leon means right-wing headcases, he might have a better argument. But then that's a small minority group in this country, thankfully. And of them, finding those who can type using actual words narrows it down even more.
    If you mean me I don't think I'm right-wing what with being a member of the Labour Party and so forth, although I take the point that I might have been back when right-wing meant "free markets, deregulation and fighting Communism" rather than whatever it is now.
    Being a member of the Labour Party means you support Keir “Kid Starver, Genocide” Starmer.

    So you are Literally Worse Than…. Starmer?

    Didn’t you get the memo?
    Whilst the culture war has tried to make things muddy, I feel the labels left / right / liberal are pretty easy to identify.

    Do you fight for the interests of capital over workers? You're right wing.
    Do you fight for the interests of workers over capital? You're left wing.
    Do you fight for the interests of capital over workers, but really really would prefer if everyone pretended that you're still a good person? You're a liberal (and right wing).
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,420
    148grss said:

    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    "That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?"

    This cannot be true. You listen to most of the leftwing posters you mentioned and PB is a den of right wingers with a few left wing voices.

    Must be the case.
    Leon is just projecting again. There are plenty of other right-leaning folk on here, from TSE and RCS through edmund, topping, and many others.

    If Leon means right-wing headcases, he might have a better argument. But then that's a small minority group in this country, thankfully. And of them, finding those who can type using actual words narrows it down even more.
    If you mean me I don't think I'm right-wing what with being a member of the Labour Party and so forth, although I take the point that I might have been back when right-wing meant "free markets, deregulation and fighting Communism" rather than whatever it is now.
    Being a member of the Labour Party means you support Keir “Kid Starver, Genocide” Starmer.

    So you are Literally Worse Than…. Starmer?

    Didn’t you get the memo?
    Whilst the culture war has tried to make things muddy, I feel the labels left / right / liberal are pretty easy to identify.

    Do you fight for the interests of capital over workers? You're right wing.
    Do you fight for the interests of workers over capital? You're left wing.
    Do you fight for the interests of capital over workers, but really really would prefer if everyone pretended that you're still a good person? You're a liberal (and right wing).
    By this definition you are right wing because you support maximally open borders.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,916

    Leon said:

    I think we should all pay respects to Tim

    He was the last genuinely funny leftwinger on PB, also a brutally effective debater, sometimes

    OK a bit of a dick, and possibly misogynist, and a terrible liar. But still, funny

    SIGH

    Who was it who drove Tim away again?

    Yet each man kills the thing he loves,
    By each let this be heard,
    Some do it with a bitter look,
    Some with a flattering word,
    The coward does it with a kiss,
    The brave man with a sword!
    It was @Plato, bless her

    But seeing as she is now dead she has probably paid the price. RIP
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,473
    geoffw said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT but much more on topic here:

    The wheels of the American justice system grind exceedingly slow but there has been an important change of pace in the last week or so.

    The Court of Appeals found that Trump did not have immunity. Basically because the Constitution doesn't say he has whilst it does grant limited immunity elsewhere. This type of reasoning is somewhat problematic for an Originalist based SC. Trump says he will appeal of course but he does not have a right to a hearing in the SC and they just might say no.

    The CFO of Trump's businesses is negotiating a plea bargain on perjury. He was the principal witness on financial matters in the fraud case in New York. Justice Erdogan wants to know about it. By today. The question of who suborned Alan Weisselberg to commit that perjury is next up on the rank but even as a starter this has the potential to make appealing Erdogan's judgment more difficult and justify even harsher penalties.

    The hearing on whether Trump is able to be on the ballot at all goes before the SC tomorrow. I think the oral submissions are down for 2 days. As it is, I think that case encourages Haley to hang on in there as the last (wo)man standing if they rule against him.

    My observation for the morning is that all 3 of these carry significant risk factors for Trump that do not seem to be reflected in his odds of being either the nominee or the next President.

    The Supreme Court will clear Trump's path.

    Probably, but it remains a risk. Trump will not be winning all these primaries if he is not allowed on the ballot. And we will have a decision before most of them.
    What odds on the SC's decision? Better or worse than evens for Trump to get the green light? If the header is to be believed it must be better than 4:1 on.
    I'll be amazed if the SC finds against Trump on that one. But will they agree to take his appeal on this latest 'no immunity' decision? If they don't (which they might not given his case has been butchered) then the DC trial for election meddling might get going fairly soon. We might then see Trump in the dock having to drop the bluster and try to explain himself under forensic questioning. This is on my list of things that can move the dial against him.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,098
    edited February 7

    I hope @Casino_Royale hasn't left the site. Sure, he has his moments, but don't we all?
    I don't think any of us really overstepped the mark with him yesterday, but there a fair few of us were nailing him about Chaz, and we do know he suffers from the black dog occasionally, so maybe we should have rowed back a bit once he started going batshit.

    I'm feeling blameless, as I was on my lunch break and missed it all :innocent:

    I do tease CR sometimes, but try to back off when I think he's going full tonto. On the flip side, he's very happy to dish it out, as he did yesterday to anyone showing insufficient deference to our God-chosen rulers.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 3,552

    148grss said:

    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    "That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?"

    This cannot be true. You listen to most of the leftwing posters you mentioned and PB is a den of right wingers with a few left wing voices.

    Must be the case.
    Leon is just projecting again. There are plenty of other right-leaning folk on here, from TSE and RCS through edmund, topping, and many others.

    If Leon means right-wing headcases, he might have a better argument. But then that's a small minority group in this country, thankfully. And of them, finding those who can type using actual words narrows it down even more.
    If you mean me I don't think I'm right-wing what with being a member of the Labour Party and so forth, although I take the point that I might have been back when right-wing meant "free markets, deregulation and fighting Communism" rather than whatever it is now.
    Being a member of the Labour Party means you support Keir “Kid Starver, Genocide” Starmer.

    So you are Literally Worse Than…. Starmer?

    Didn’t you get the memo?
    Whilst the culture war has tried to make things muddy, I feel the labels left / right / liberal are pretty easy to identify.

    Do you fight for the interests of capital over workers? You're right wing.
    Do you fight for the interests of workers over capital? You're left wing.
    Do you fight for the interests of capital over workers, but really really would prefer if everyone pretended that you're still a good person? You're a liberal (and right wing).
    By this definition you are right wing because you support maximally open borders.
    Capitalism isn't in favour of maximally open borders via the dissolution of states - as I am. Because capitalism needs states to exist to enforce property rights. Maybe we could argue that some people (al la Musk or Theil) would prefer a neofeudal system where they essentially are allowed their own private armies to enforce their property rights, but most capitalists are happy to have that cost put on the state.

    Also, no borders is good for workers. Because "British" workers could also just go wherever they wanted.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 3,552
    Selebian said:

    I hope @Casino_Royale hasn't left the site. Sure, he has his moments, but don't we all?
    I don't think any of us really overstepped the mark with him yesterday, but there a fair few of us were nailing him about Chaz, and we do know he suffers from the black dog occasionally, so maybe we should have rowed back a bit once he started going batshit.

    I'm feeling blameless, as I was on my lunch break and missed it all :innocent:

    I do tease CR sometimes, but try to back off when I think he's going full tonto. On the flip side, he's very happy to dish it out, as he did yesterday to anyone showing insufficient deference to our God-chosen rulers.
    Just because they are the one's who stomped off in a huff, doesn't mean anyone should feel sorry for them. As you say - they're happy enough to give their opinion all the time and demand deference. I'm also somewhat confused about why more people are using HMG and HMK to refer to things - is Charles particularly majestic?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,420
    edited February 7
    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    "That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?"

    This cannot be true. You listen to most of the leftwing posters you mentioned and PB is a den of right wingers with a few left wing voices.

    Must be the case.
    Leon is just projecting again. There are plenty of other right-leaning folk on here, from TSE and RCS through edmund, topping, and many others.

    If Leon means right-wing headcases, he might have a better argument. But then that's a small minority group in this country, thankfully. And of them, finding those who can type using actual words narrows it down even more.
    If you mean me I don't think I'm right-wing what with being a member of the Labour Party and so forth, although I take the point that I might have been back when right-wing meant "free markets, deregulation and fighting Communism" rather than whatever it is now.
    Being a member of the Labour Party means you support Keir “Kid Starver, Genocide” Starmer.

    So you are Literally Worse Than…. Starmer?

    Didn’t you get the memo?
    Whilst the culture war has tried to make things muddy, I feel the labels left / right / liberal are pretty easy to identify.

    Do you fight for the interests of capital over workers? You're right wing.
    Do you fight for the interests of workers over capital? You're left wing.
    Do you fight for the interests of capital over workers, but really really would prefer if everyone pretended that you're still a good person? You're a liberal (and right wing).
    By this definition you are right wing because you support maximally open borders.
    Capitalism isn't in favour of maximally open borders via the dissolution of states - as I am. Because capitalism needs states to exist to enforce property rights. Maybe we could argue that some people (al la Musk or Theil) would prefer a neofeudal system where they essentially are allowed their own private armies to enforce their property rights, but most capitalists are happy to have that cost put on the state.

    Also, no borders is good for workers. Because "British" workers could also just go wherever they wanted.
    So in the world that exists in reality, you fight for the interests of capital over workers, but you'd really, really prefer it if people pretended that you don't, because there is a different world that exists in your head?
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 3,552

    Have you thought, @Leon, that this board might actually be representative of the country? And there are very few right-wingers left?

    Even I wouldn't go that far. 40% of the country voted Labour in 2017, and 32% in 2019 - I don't think anywhere near that number of posters here supported Corbyn's Labour at that time. I would guess this forum is disproportionately older, wealthier, and male than the electorate as a whole.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,381
    edited February 7
    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    I haven't noticed much leftism in EvanGladne's output. It's quite balanced.
    Best poster on here imho. I've never had a problem with any posts from Evan.

    Feel sad for LuckyGuy and DavidL and MaxPB (and Bart? Although he's woke liberal right wing, so maybe exlcuded) not making the rightwingers of note cut :disappointed: Not nutty enough, I guess
    (Apologies if any of you feel mislabelled, but I'd put you right of centre, but maybe that's my skewed woke leftie academic viewpoint)

    Also sad not to get my own shout out within the RMWHLIFSBofTLPB :disappointed:
    Personally, I was devastated. So upset I might have to go and do some work to get over it.

    Edit, and I can do nutty, I really can.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,072
    148grss said:

    Have you thought, @Leon, that this board might actually be representative of the country? And there are very few right-wingers left?

    Even I wouldn't go that far. 40% of the country voted Labour in 2017, and 32% in 2019 - I don't think anywhere near that number of posters here supported Corbyn's Labour at that time. I would guess this forum is disproportionately older, wealthier, and male than the electorate as a whole.
    And fortunately, therefore less likely to vote for an anti-Semite to be PM. ;)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 43,514

    Have you thought, @Leon, that this board might actually be representative of the country? And there are very few right-wingers left?

    I am fairly right wing on many issues. Dry as dust on finances for example. Indeed closer to @DavidL on many issues than Labour.

    I am pretty liberal on social issues though, and keen on engaging with and participating in pan-national structures.

    That fitted well with the Coalition in most respects, but there isn't really a political home at the moment. I can't abide the Populist Nationalism of the present Tories, and am not keen on the statist economic policies of Labour. There isn't much space for folk like me at the moment.

  • 148grss148grss Posts: 3,552

    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    "That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?"

    This cannot be true. You listen to most of the leftwing posters you mentioned and PB is a den of right wingers with a few left wing voices.

    Must be the case.
    Leon is just projecting again. There are plenty of other right-leaning folk on here, from TSE and RCS through edmund, topping, and many others.

    If Leon means right-wing headcases, he might have a better argument. But then that's a small minority group in this country, thankfully. And of them, finding those who can type using actual words narrows it down even more.
    If you mean me I don't think I'm right-wing what with being a member of the Labour Party and so forth, although I take the point that I might have been back when right-wing meant "free markets, deregulation and fighting Communism" rather than whatever it is now.
    Being a member of the Labour Party means you support Keir “Kid Starver, Genocide” Starmer.

    So you are Literally Worse Than…. Starmer?

    Didn’t you get the memo?
    Whilst the culture war has tried to make things muddy, I feel the labels left / right / liberal are pretty easy to identify.

    Do you fight for the interests of capital over workers? You're right wing.
    Do you fight for the interests of workers over capital? You're left wing.
    Do you fight for the interests of capital over workers, but really really would prefer if everyone pretended that you're still a good person? You're a liberal (and right wing).
    By this definition you are right wing because you support maximally open borders.
    Capitalism isn't in favour of maximally open borders via the dissolution of states - as I am. Because capitalism needs states to exist to enforce property rights. Maybe we could argue that some people (al la Musk or Theil) would prefer a neofeudal system where they essentially are allowed their own private armies to enforce their property rights, but most capitalists are happy to have that cost put on the state.

    Also, no borders is good for workers. Because "British" workers could also just go wherever they wanted.
    So in the world that exists in reality, you fight for the interests of capital over workers, but you'd really, really prefer it if people pretended that you don't, because there is a different world that exists in your head?
    It is not in the interests of the workers to be a border fascist. Indeed, it is not in the interest of the workers to be anti immigrant in a liberal way.

    Most immigrants share the same class interest as workers as workers already here. Immigrants are not the group with power in how they impact workers - capitalists are. You could have a state that had open borders and also held companies to the law on misusing immigrant and under waged labour. You could have a state that invested in infrastructure and redistributed wealth and power to all workers, regardless of immigration statues. That is a decision by the state that is deferential to capital, not to the workers. I would happily enforce minimum wage on employers more harshly, and demand that all workers get access to workers' rights, and workers get representation in company decisions, etc. Immigrant or not.

    Making the issue about immigrants rather than how companies pit factions of workers against each other to stall a unified workers' movement, or try to illegally hire people under minimum wage and without their full rights as worker to maximize their profits, is a slight of hand trick. Immigrants are not the enemy of the worker - the boss is.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 8,669
    The long term problem of politico-economic ideologues, particularly those on the far left: they divide the world into labour and capital.

    Aside from the fact there's a whole plethora of policies that are good or bad for both labour and capital (and very few that are truly zero-sum in the long term), this always forgets the third estate: the consumer.

    Untrammelled capital leads to monopolies which leads to poor quality products and services, technological stagnation and product incompatibility, and unsafe and polluting industries.

    Untrammelled labour power leads to closed shops, surly customer service, price inflation and restrictions on consumer choice.

    A cosy-up between the two too often leads to them colluding to do over the consumer.

  • 148grss148grss Posts: 3,552

    148grss said:

    Have you thought, @Leon, that this board might actually be representative of the country? And there are very few right-wingers left?

    Even I wouldn't go that far. 40% of the country voted Labour in 2017, and 32% in 2019 - I don't think anywhere near that number of posters here supported Corbyn's Labour at that time. I would guess this forum is disproportionately older, wealthier, and male than the electorate as a whole.
    And fortunately, therefore less likely to vote for an anti-Semite to be PM. ;)
    What - that well known definitely not anti-Semitic Boris Johnson?

    "Boris Johnson has invoked some of the oldest and most pernicious antisemitic stereotypes in a book he wrote when he was a Conservative shadow minister. He describes “Jewish oligarchs” who run the media, and fiddle the figures to fix elections in their favour.

    He portrays a Jewish character, Sammy Katz, with a “proud nose and curly hair”, and paints him as a malevolent, stingy, snake-like Jewish businessman who exploits immigrant workers for profit. There is nothing subtle about this. We know what antisemitism looks like."


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/11/boris-johnsons-record-of-bigotry-antisemitism-and-far-right-politics-must-not-be-forgotten
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,529
    Foxy said:

    Have you thought, @Leon, that this board might actually be representative of the country? And there are very few right-wingers left?

    I am fairly right wing on many issues. Dry as dust on finances for example. Indeed closer to @DavidL on many issues than Labour.

    I am pretty liberal on social issues though, and keen on engaging with and participating in pan-national structures.

    That fitted well with the Coalition in most respects, but there isn't really a political home at the moment. I can't abide the Populist Nationalism of the present Tories, and am not keen on the statist economic policies of Labour. There isn't much space for folk like me at the moment.

    Interesting comment; I was quite keen on the coalition originally, but the more I saw of it the less I liked it, in particular, the backtracking on student fees by the Liberal Democrats, and what Lansley did to the health service!
    As far as I can see, the only reason for voting Labour at the moment is because they're not the Tories, and as you say, the Populist Nationalism is most unpleasant. But then I've been a committed European since about 1960!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,498

    148grss said:

    Have you thought, @Leon, that this board might actually be representative of the country? And there are very few right-wingers left?

    Even I wouldn't go that far. 40% of the country voted Labour in 2017, and 32% in 2019 - I don't think anywhere near that number of posters here supported Corbyn's Labour at that time. I would guess this forum is disproportionately older, wealthier, and male than the electorate as a whole.
    And fortunately, therefore less likely to vote for an anti-Semite to be PM. ;)
    Jeremy Corbyn was not personally antisemitic. Speaking of which, did you see that anti-Zionism is now a protected characteristic?

    Bristol University academic unfairly dismissed for anti-Zionist views
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-68211872
  • Chatter from ex colleagues now good friends on our WhatsApp group. One posts the S*n thing about November. Another the King. The comment "The Tories will hang on to the very end now"

    Yup, I think so.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,584
    viewcode said:

    Has @Casino_Royale left? I hope he comes back.

    Monarchical flounce.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,244

    Have you thought, @Leon, that this board might actually be representative of the country? And there are very few right-wingers left?

    There are very few people accepted as right-wing anymore. Even 5 years ago no-one would seriously be arguing Sunak was a liberal lefty Europhile. Today, he apparently is that to a significant proportion of the Tory party, despite being an early Brexiteer, free markets, low regulation type with little to say on social and cultural policies either way beyond the status quo.

    Its the meaning of right wing that has changed, more so than the population.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,420
    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    "That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?"

    This cannot be true. You listen to most of the leftwing posters you mentioned and PB is a den of right wingers with a few left wing voices.

    Must be the case.
    Leon is just projecting again. There are plenty of other right-leaning folk on here, from TSE and RCS through edmund, topping, and many others.

    If Leon means right-wing headcases, he might have a better argument. But then that's a small minority group in this country, thankfully. And of them, finding those who can type using actual words narrows it down even more.
    If you mean me I don't think I'm right-wing what with being a member of the Labour Party and so forth, although I take the point that I might have been back when right-wing meant "free markets, deregulation and fighting Communism" rather than whatever it is now.
    Being a member of the Labour Party means you support Keir “Kid Starver, Genocide” Starmer.

    So you are Literally Worse Than…. Starmer?

    Didn’t you get the memo?
    Whilst the culture war has tried to make things muddy, I feel the labels left / right / liberal are pretty easy to identify.

    Do you fight for the interests of capital over workers? You're right wing.
    Do you fight for the interests of workers over capital? You're left wing.
    Do you fight for the interests of capital over workers, but really really would prefer if everyone pretended that you're still a good person? You're a liberal (and right wing).
    By this definition you are right wing because you support maximally open borders.
    Capitalism isn't in favour of maximally open borders via the dissolution of states - as I am. Because capitalism needs states to exist to enforce property rights. Maybe we could argue that some people (al la Musk or Theil) would prefer a neofeudal system where they essentially are allowed their own private armies to enforce their property rights, but most capitalists are happy to have that cost put on the state.

    Also, no borders is good for workers. Because "British" workers could also just go wherever they wanted.
    So in the world that exists in reality, you fight for the interests of capital over workers, but you'd really, really prefer it if people pretended that you don't, because there is a different world that exists in your head?
    It is not in the interests of the workers to be a border fascist. Indeed, it is not in the interest of the workers to be anti immigrant in a liberal way.

    Most immigrants share the same class interest as workers as workers already here. Immigrants are not the group with power in how they impact workers - capitalists are. You could have a state that had open borders and also held companies to the law on misusing immigrant and under waged labour. You could have a state that invested in infrastructure and redistributed wealth and power to all workers, regardless of immigration statues. That is a decision by the state that is deferential to capital, not to the workers. I would happily enforce minimum wage on employers more harshly, and demand that all workers get access to workers' rights, and workers get representation in company decisions, etc. Immigrant or not.

    Making the issue about immigrants rather than how companies pit factions of workers against each other to stall a unified workers' movement, or try to illegally hire people under minimum wage and without their full rights as worker to maximize their profits, is a slight of hand trick. Immigrants are not the enemy of the worker - the boss is.
    Are you able to distinguish between immigration and immigrants?

    If workers in Germany go on strike for better conditions and the bosses respond by hiring an army of Jimmy Nails from England, whose interests are being served?

    Also why do you talk about "illegally hiring people under minimum wage" when in your world there is no state to enforce a minimum wage?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,351
    DavidL said:

    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    FPT, coz someone has to save PB from terminal decline

    I do hope @Casino_Royale has not left us, permanently

    That would basically leave me, @isam and @HYUFD as the solitary remaining rightwingers of note?

    The relentless mediocre witless humourless lifeless inert festering smelly blob of twatty leftwing PB - from @DougSeal to @Foxy, from @kinabalu to @Benpointer to @RochdalePioneers to @Roger to @EvanGladne, in all its desperate and piffling monotony, will have overwhelmed and destroyed everything of value, like the ghastly fungus in The Last of Us

    Bring back CASINO

    I haven't noticed much leftism in EvanGladne's output. It's quite balanced.
    Best poster on here imho. I've never had a problem with any posts from Evan.

    Feel sad for LuckyGuy and DavidL and MaxPB (and Bart? Although he's woke liberal right wing, so maybe exlcuded) not making the rightwingers of note cut :disappointed: Not nutty enough, I guess
    (Apologies if any of you feel mislabelled, but I'd put you right of centre, but maybe that's my skewed woke leftie academic viewpoint)

    Also sad not to get my own shout out within the RMWHLIFSBofTLPB :disappointed:
    Personally, I was devastated. So upset I might have to go and do some work to get over it.

    Edit, and I can do nutty, I really can.
    No you can't. It was with great pride that I was associated with you once when @rcs1000 threatened to ban us both for being too reasonable.

    I also don't agree with people's views on @EvanGladne. I find him to be a bit of a right winger.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,098
    viewcode said:

    Has @Casino_Royale left? I hope he comes back.

    I doubt Casino can stay left for long. He'll be back, all right :wink:
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,072

    148grss said:

    Have you thought, @Leon, that this board might actually be representative of the country? And there are very few right-wingers left?

    Even I wouldn't go that far. 40% of the country voted Labour in 2017, and 32% in 2019 - I don't think anywhere near that number of posters here supported Corbyn's Labour at that time. I would guess this forum is disproportionately older, wealthier, and male than the electorate as a whole.
    And fortunately, therefore less likely to vote for an anti-Semite to be PM. ;)
    Jeremy Corbyn was not personally antisemitic. Speaking of which, did you see that anti-Zionism is now a protected characteristic?

    Bristol University academic unfairly dismissed for anti-Zionist views
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-68211872
    Yes, I had heard that, and it'll be interesting to see how that pans out, given that anti-Zionism is often a gateway to, or a cover for, outright anti-Semitism.

    "Jeremy Corbyn was not personally antisemitic. "

    I'm not so sure. when the controversy first started, I decided that he was probably just someone who was naive, a "passive anti-Semite". Then, as events unfolded, it seemed clearer and clearer that he was either/or/and totally thick, or actually actively anti-Semitic. And I pay him a complement by saying he's not totally thick.

    Racism - and anti-Semitism - can take many forms. It doesn't have to be racially abusing a black person in the street, or painting a swastika on a synagogue door.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,532

    Foxy said:

    Have you thought, @Leon, that this board might actually be representative of the country? And there are very few right-wingers left?

    I am fairly right wing on many issues. Dry as dust on finances for example. Indeed closer to @DavidL on many issues than Labour.

    I am pretty liberal on social issues though, and keen on engaging with and participating in pan-national structures.

    That fitted well with the Coalition in most respects, but there isn't really a political home at the moment. I can't abide the Populist Nationalism of the present Tories, and am not keen on the statist economic policies of Labour. There isn't much space for folk like me at the moment.

    Interesting comment; I was quite keen on the coalition originally, but the more I saw of it the less I liked it, in particular, the backtracking on student fees by the Liberal Democrats, and what Lansley did to the health service!
    As far as I can see, the only reason for voting Labour at the moment is because they're not the Tories, and as you say, the Populist Nationalism is most unpleasant. But then I've been a committed European since about 1960!
    To quote some British pm or other, rejoice!
    Or rather remoan that we're peering through the window from the outside..



  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,072
    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    Have you thought, @Leon, that this board might actually be representative of the country? And there are very few right-wingers left?

    Even I wouldn't go that far. 40% of the country voted Labour in 2017, and 32% in 2019 - I don't think anywhere near that number of posters here supported Corbyn's Labour at that time. I would guess this forum is disproportionately older, wealthier, and male than the electorate as a whole.
    And fortunately, therefore less likely to vote for an anti-Semite to be PM. ;)
    What - that well known definitely not anti-Semitic Boris Johnson?

    "Boris Johnson has invoked some of the oldest and most pernicious antisemitic stereotypes in a book he wrote when he was a Conservative shadow minister. He describes “Jewish oligarchs” who run the media, and fiddle the figures to fix elections in their favour.

    He portrays a Jewish character, Sammy Katz, with a “proud nose and curly hair”, and paints him as a malevolent, stingy, snake-like Jewish businessman who exploits immigrant workers for profit. There is nothing subtle about this. We know what antisemitism looks like."


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/11/boris-johnsons-record-of-bigotry-antisemitism-and-far-right-politics-must-not-be-forgotten
    My views on Boris Johnson have been known for years on here. They are not generally positive.

    But I guess your attempted deflection means you agree that the 32% of people who voted Labour in 2019 were voting for an anti-Semite? (I'll give the 40% in 2017 the benefit of the doubt, as it was not as clear back then)?
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 3,552
    TimS said:

    The long term problem of politico-economic ideologues, particularly those on the far left: they divide the world into labour and capital.

    Aside from the fact there's a whole plethora of policies that are good or bad for both labour and capital (and very few that are truly zero-sum in the long term), this always forgets the third estate: the consumer.

    Untrammelled capital leads to monopolies which leads to poor quality products and services, technological stagnation and product incompatibility, and unsafe and polluting industries.

    Untrammelled labour power leads to closed shops, surly customer service, price inflation and restrictions on consumer choice.

    A cosy-up between the two too often leads to them colluding to do over the consumer.

    I mean that is kind of the heart of left wing political theory - that there is no struggle other than class struggle and that class struggle under capitalism is the struggle between the worker and the capitalist (in previous modes of economic organisation it was the slave versus the slaver, or the serf versus the lord, imperial subject versus imperial enforcer, etc.).

    The idea of "identity politics" in the modern sense as being separate to this is weird to me - of course fighting for the rights of marginalised people (queer people, women, non-white people, disabled people, etc.) is a fight of workers, because the marginalised are, typically, most seen in the lower classes (either because their marginalised status is constructed around that, such as how race became intrinsically linked to slavery in the Atlantic slave trade, or their marginalised status can lead to becoming dispossessed, such as when people were outed and fired for being gay).

    You may be able to point to periods where capital was reigned in (as I have when discussing the New Deal and the post-war consensus), but even at those times capital was supreme and workers did not have "untrammelled power". The high point of union power, for example, was crushed because the profit motive was considered more important. Yes, workers stopped working, went on strike, etc - but the request of labour wasn't for the ownership of the means of production - it was for better wages, better conditions and for the ability to make ends meet if they have to learn new skills before they can work again.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,529

    148grss said:

    Have you thought, @Leon, that this board might actually be representative of the country? And there are very few right-wingers left?

    Even I wouldn't go that far. 40% of the country voted Labour in 2017, and 32% in 2019 - I don't think anywhere near that number of posters here supported Corbyn's Labour at that time. I would guess this forum is disproportionately older, wealthier, and male than the electorate as a whole.
    And fortunately, therefore less likely to vote for an anti-Semite to be PM. ;)
    Jeremy Corbyn was not personally antisemitic. Speaking of which, did you see that anti-Zionism is now a protected characteristic?

    Bristol University academic unfairly dismissed for anti-Zionist views
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-68211872
    Yes, I had heard that, and it'll be interesting to see how that pans out, given that anti-Zionism is often a gateway to, or a cover for, outright anti-Semitism.

    "Jeremy Corbyn was not personally antisemitic. "

    I'm not so sure. when the controversy first started, I decided that he was probably just someone who was naive, a "passive anti-Semite". Then, as events unfolded, it seemed clearer and clearer that he was either/or/and totally thick, or actually actively anti-Semitic. And I pay him a complement by saying he's not totally thick.

    Racism - and anti-Semitism - can take many forms. It doesn't have to be racially abusing a black person in the street, or painting a swastika on a synagogue door.
    I have to say that the current Israeli government is making it very difficult indeed to sympathise with them. However, too often failing to sympathise with them is being described as antisemitic.
    Personally I would at the moment, describe myself as pro Gazan, unless they're leaders of Hamas!
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 3,552

    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    Have you thought, @Leon, that this board might actually be representative of the country? And there are very few right-wingers left?

    Even I wouldn't go that far. 40% of the country voted Labour in 2017, and 32% in 2019 - I don't think anywhere near that number of posters here supported Corbyn's Labour at that time. I would guess this forum is disproportionately older, wealthier, and male than the electorate as a whole.
    And fortunately, therefore less likely to vote for an anti-Semite to be PM. ;)
    What - that well known definitely not anti-Semitic Boris Johnson?

    "Boris Johnson has invoked some of the oldest and most pernicious antisemitic stereotypes in a book he wrote when he was a Conservative shadow minister. He describes “Jewish oligarchs” who run the media, and fiddle the figures to fix elections in their favour.

    He portrays a Jewish character, Sammy Katz, with a “proud nose and curly hair”, and paints him as a malevolent, stingy, snake-like Jewish businessman who exploits immigrant workers for profit. There is nothing subtle about this. We know what antisemitism looks like."


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/11/boris-johnsons-record-of-bigotry-antisemitism-and-far-right-politics-must-not-be-forgotten
    My views on Boris Johnson have been known for years on here. They are not generally positive.

    But I guess your attempted deflection means you agree that the 32% of people who voted Labour in 2019 were voting for an anti-Semite? (I'll give the 40% in 2017 the benefit of the doubt, as it was not as clear back then)?
    When it comes to electoralism I am a cynic - I think I've voted Labour once in a GLA election when I lived in North London briefly - but in other elections I've voted ABC (which disgustingly meant voting LD), voted my heart (Green) or have spoiled my ballot.

    But I do also disagree with the premise, yes - I don't think Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-Semite.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 17,732
    Selebian said:

    I hope @Casino_Royale hasn't left the site. Sure, he has his moments, but don't we all?
    I don't think any of us really overstepped the mark with him yesterday, but there a fair few of us were nailing him about Chaz, and we do know he suffers from the black dog occasionally, so maybe we should have rowed back a bit once he started going batshit.

    I'm feeling blameless, as I was on my lunch break and missed it all :innocent:

    I do tease CR sometimes, but try to back off when I think he's going full tonto. On the flip side, he's very happy to dish it out, as he did yesterday to anyone showing insufficient deference to our God-chosen rulers.
    A Constitutional Monarchy is not "God chosen". It exists by our permission.

    "God chosen" is just a .. er .. Hail Mary Pass by washed up Republicans who have had limited supporting arguments for about 400 years, and none at all at present. Even more :innocent: .
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,098

    148grss said:

    Have you thought, @Leon, that this board might actually be representative of the country? And there are very few right-wingers left?

    Even I wouldn't go that far. 40% of the country voted Labour in 2017, and 32% in 2019 - I don't think anywhere near that number of posters here supported Corbyn's Labour at that time. I would guess this forum is disproportionately older, wealthier, and male than the electorate as a whole.
    And fortunately, therefore less likely to vote for an anti-Semite to be PM. ;)
    Jeremy Corbyn was not personally antisemitic. Speaking of which, did you see that anti-Zionism is now a protected characteristic?

    Bristol University academic unfairly dismissed for anti-Zionist views
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-68211872
    Yes, I had heard that, and it'll be interesting to see how that pans out, given that anti-Zionism is often a gateway to, or a cover for, outright anti-Semitism.

    "Jeremy Corbyn was not personally antisemitic. "

    I'm not so sure. when the controversy first started, I decided that he was probably just someone who was naive, a "passive anti-Semite". Then, as events unfolded, it seemed clearer and clearer that he was either/or/and totally thick, or actually actively anti-Semitic. And I pay him a complement by saying he's not totally thick.

    Racism - and anti-Semitism - can take many forms. It doesn't have to be racially abusing a black person in the street, or painting a swastika on a synagogue door.
    I have to say that the current Israeli government is making it very difficult indeed to sympathise with them. However, too often failing to sympathise with them is being described as antisemitic.
    Personally I would at the moment, describe myself as pro Gazan, unless they're leaders of Hamas!
    Both sides need to get themselves better leaders.
  • Foxy said:

    Have you thought, @Leon, that this board might actually be representative of the country? And there are very few right-wingers left?

    I am fairly right wing on many issues. Dry as dust on finances for example. Indeed closer to @DavidL on many issues than Labour.

    I am pretty liberal on social issues though, and keen on engaging with and participating in pan-national structures.

    That fitted well with the Coalition in most respects, but there isn't really a political home at the moment. I can't abide the Populist Nationalism of the present Tories, and am not keen on the statist economic policies of Labour. There isn't much space for folk like me at the moment.

    I miss the days when some Scot Nats called me a far right Tory.

    I am still a Thatcherite free marketeer, a believer in sound money, and aspiration.
This discussion has been closed.