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The WH2024 betting as Trump all but secures the GOP nomination – politicalbetting.com

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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,744

    isam said:

    I saw this earlier and thought it was a joke of some kind, AI, or a message to an old person on their birthday… but seems it really is a message to Farage from Sunak

    Bizarre

    WATCH: Rishi Sunak Sends Personal Message To Nigel Farage order-order.com/2024/01/23/wat…

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/1749738272526397475?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    It was order by Guido as a prank? Danger of automated systems
    But how did the "Daily Farage" paper get there? Was that added by Guido?
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,256
    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    This election is going to play very differently regionally. I expect the Tories to be all but wiped out in London, metropolitan areas and to have a shocker in the South West and Wales. Conversely, I think their vote will be stickier than expected in the midlands and in some northern county/small towns.

    I can't speak for the Midlands. For northern England they are going to get absolutely destroyed. Whilst there will remain pockets of shire Tories, all of the places where blue collar Boris Brexit Toryism exploded in 2019 will be lost. All. Maybe keep a random couple if they are lucky and the vote splits right to allow their collapse to still leave them on top.

    Why? Because, to get all northern again for a minute, they've done fuck all round here. Too. many morons unexpectedly elected, fed the spin lines by head office which they parrot about all the things they are delivering. Whilst delivering nothing. Voters are used to nothing, but they're not used to being lied to about it.

    Worse still is the parochial bigotry that was always close to the surface in many towns now whipped to a frenzy. They voted Brexit and then Boris to get the foreigners out. Gone. Its their fault we can't see a doctor, why the schools are crap, why there's no jobs and no money. And even in 2019 the lure of the further right was strong - the Brexit Party saved Labour in a stack of seats. I expect the number of FUKkers to be even higher this time, and vs 2019 they will mostly be transfers from Tory 2019 totals.

    It is going to be a political bloodbath. And well deserved - will be fun to see what Lord Ben I'll Sue Houchen will do with his local support all gone and the wolves closing in on the scent of malfeasance...
    Round here a comment I’ve heard often is where have all these coloured people come from.

    And it’s not usually as a racist comment we’ve always had a few people of Asian / African descent but there are noticeably more than used to be the case

    Granted a lot of the people complaining won’t actually vote but it does show how many people think Bozo and co have utterly failed to deliver what they promised
    It's a lot worse than "not delivering", they have done the opposite of delivering. We have had 1.3 million migrants in two years, which is: simply off the dial, unprecedented in our history, changing the country visibly and briskly, and is a larger rate per capita than any annual immigration into the "land of immigrants" - the USA

    We are importing more people than America in the era of Ellis Island. Take a minute and grasp that

    It is screamingly insane, it is a kind of Ponzi scheme, and all of this is happening as everyone admits the NHS can't cope, our sewage system can't cope, our infrastructure is fucked, and house-ownership is becoming a dream for anyone under 50

    The Tories are going to be obliterated, and deservedly, to the extent they may never recover

    However, Starmer will then have to tackle this issue. It cannot be ignored. What will he do?



    How much off that 1.3 million is Ukraine/Hong Kong and adjustments of student numbers after covid?
    I believe about 100-150,000 is Ukraine/HK

    Students dunno, but an awful lot of them have brought dependants (much more than usual), and a much higher propertion are now converting their student visas to work visas, so they stay


    Now it's great that people want to come here, it's good our unis are attractive, I am sure 98% of these people are fantastic brain surgeons to be, but the simple fact is the UK cannot cope with 700,000 net immigrants a year. Remember when Cameron vowed to get it down to tens of thousands? Now it is SEVEN HUNDRED THOUSAND

    To grasp this nettle will take courage. Does Starmer possess it? I doubt it, and it's not in Labour's nature to clamp down on migration
    It is perfectly possible to integrate 700K people in UK society a year.

    To do so will take investment in infrastructure, and in the effort to socially integrate them. Nothing is free, all the options require work to be done.
    What, in perpetuity? 700,000 a year for the next 30 years? That will add 20 million people to the population and transform entire cities and regions, in ethnicity, culture, religion, mores, laws, everything - coz those 20 million people won’t be from Ireland or Denmark

    This is absolute madness - and it really is the way you guarantee a far right party governing the country

    People like you are fucking dangerous
    It's worth pointing out, it took years and years and years and years and years just to integrate the Irish when there was mass immigration from Ireland in the 19th century. We still have separate Catholic schools. It's still the case that Irish surnames are disproportionately common among the poorest parts of white British society. Now the irish are foreign, but as foreigners go they're not very foreign.
    Integration is very very hard.
    Are you some kind of Nazi???

    Integrating 700,000 Africans, Asians, Muslims, Chinese, Indians, Bolivians, Peruvians every single year is fine. 1.3m every two years - good. 3 million every four years even better. Doddle. What’s your problem, DOCTOR GOEBBELS?? Don’t you like foreigners?

    All you have to do is look across Europe and see that the Hard and Far Right is now a minuscule and diminishing threat, even after large scale immigration, and everyone can tell that you are basically parroting Mein Kampf

    This is my objection to the 'progressive mindset'. 'Integration' is seen as a case of education and eliminating prejudice amongst the local population. Where this fails, then it can be compelled by law. However, this applies only to existing majority populations, not incomers. I have encountered this type of thinking amongst 'liberals' for 10 years and it is much in evidence on PB. The more extreme it gets, the more radical the eventual response will be. The rise of Trump, the AfD etc can be predicted almost like an algorhythm. If you think you can outlaw Trump and the AfD, then the response you eventually encounter gets more and more gruesome until you get an actual Hitler. In this way the left are responsible for the return of fascism, because it is all a product of their own fascism in ignoring legitimate opposition to their policies and suppressing ideas, speech and beliefs through law. In this context, it may not be such a bad idea to start working with the "far right" to address these problems, as they have been doing (for instance) in Finland for a decade.

    Indeed. This is why the Left is not just delusional, it is dangerous

    It is basically waving a THIS WAY sign to the next Hitler

    And they just don’t get it
    A sensible Left would propose more foreign aid, investment, conflict resolution, and bilateral agreements, including help at source, to "stop the boats".

    Instead, they say "safe and legal routes" which I don't think they realise is heard as: create an open door for anyone who wants it.
    These are the arguments made by the "loony left" - whereas the idea of increasing foreign aid is anathema because people always say "but we should help our own first". Which goes back to my point - if you meet the material needs of people, there is no frustration that will build up to be misattributed to "the other". The neoliberal capitalist consensus cannot do that - more profit must be skimmed and therefore the average person will lose out. The right do not want to do that - they like having an "other" to have grievances against to protect the fact that capitalism is the reason for this. The left want to deal with this issue - and get called communists for proposing policy solutions or slight social democratic reform with wealth redistribution and investment in civic infrastructure.
    I haven't heard the left make a cogent argument on this.

    In fact, phrases like "neoliberal capitalist consensus" sort of show both why you don't think it's worth bothering to try and how you'd get it badly wrong if you did.
    The Matt Goodwin right and Aaron Bastani left both hate the same thing: centrist liberals. They just have different names for them. The left bang in about the neoliberal capitalist consensus or “late capitalism”, the right talk about the woke liberal establishment or “new elites”. Same people: the fabled blob.
    Whatever his flaws Matt Goodwin is a liberal. He believes in classical liberal freedoms of expression and thought, in the multiplicity of sources of truth, in democracy, in an open society vigilant to protect this from its enemies, in free inquiry being the best way of eliciting truths and so on. He is a classic John Stuart Mill liberal, in company with almost everyone of any significance in mainstream UK political life and thought. He is one of liberalism's better defenders.

    I often, of course, disagree with him. But not about being a liberal.
    Rob Ford has accused Matt Goodwin of repeatedly lying. When you say “multiplicity of sources of truth”, is this like Kellyanne Conway talking about “alternative facts”?
    Funny how the two of them first became famous when they wrote a book together!

    "Revolt on the Right by Robert Ford and Matthew Goodwin – review
    Ford and Goodwin's fact-packed study takes a compelling look at how Ukip has become a threat to both Labour and the Tory party, fuelling the rise of the radical right in Britain"

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/apr/23/revolt-on-right-robert-ford-matthew-goodwin-review
    Indeed, which is perhaps why you can trust Ford on Goodwin now. He knows him well!
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,144
    On a lighter note the Oscar nominations are out . The pile of self-indulgent crap Oppenheimer appears .

    Having fallen for all the hype I saw this . Far too long , tedious with severely annoying sound effects, disjointed and lacking in any real drama.

    I so wanted to like the film but would rather have a tooth extraction than sit through this overhyped film again .
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,177
    isam said:

    That Farage ad makes Sunak look so weak, I can’t believe he’s actually done it. Who is going to be impressed? People who prefer Farage anyway will think it makes their man look stronger, people who hate Farage will think Rishi looks like his bitch! So strange

    It’s not an ad. It’s a system whereby a voter can order a “personalised” message from a website.

    I’m assuming that it is selected automatically from a stock of topics (ie you say you are worried about immigration and you get one; if you are worried about taxes you get another, etc)

    Stupid SPADs didn’t realise what would take people about 5 seconds to do…
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,905
    Chris said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I saw this earlier and thought it was a joke of some kind, AI, or a message to an old person on their birthday… but seems it really is a message to Farage from Sunak

    Bizarre

    WATCH: Rishi Sunak Sends Personal Message To Nigel Farage order-order.com/2024/01/23/wat…

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/1749738272526397475?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What on earth is he thinking?

    I really do think that a Farage-led party could end up ahead of the Tories in 2024 the way things are going.
    OK, "tell us your grumbles so we can play them back to you in a mailmerged letter" is old hat as campaign gimmicks go.

    And it wasn't really Rishi sending a grovelling video to Nigel F, it was Guido running the system to create that.

    But who on God's Good Earth thought this was a good idea? Of course it was going to be abused.

    (One of my theories about old-school election campaigns is that they're a reasonable proxy for government. If you can manage resources, people and ideas well enough to do a good stump campaign, you're probably to be trusted with the levers of power. On that basis, the Conservatives are doomed.)
    Ah, so it was a wind up of sorts.

    Latest ads from the Tories, spotted by James Heale, now have an option to create your own “personalised message” from Rishi Sunak. All you have to do is sign up your name, email address, town and what issue matters most to you. That’s certainly one way to gather a bunch of data…

    Guido decided he should do one on behalf of Nigel Farage. After wishing Nigel a happy New Year, Rishi goes on to say “like you, I think immigration levels are too high”. Touching…

    Nigel tells Guido:

    “I’m glad Rishi says he is finally taking my concerns seriously, but I think it’s going to take a bit more than a personalised video message to Stop the Boats”.

    Guido can confirm that none of this is AI, meaning Rishi has literally filmed all different versions of the video and has recorded himself saying various different names. It must have been a busy few days…


    https://order-order.com/2024/01/23/watch-rishi-sunak-sends-personal-message-to-nigel-farage/
    Can we look forward to a video of Rishi saying "like you, I doubt whether the Holocaust really happened"?
    "Hi Adolf, Happy New Year and thanks for raising your issue with me..."
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,177
    MattW said:

    On the US Election, it came on my radar that the GOP are playing silly buggers in Nevada, due to not wanting to comply with a new process imposed by the State Legislature for the primaries, and therefore Mr Chump is not going to be on the Presidential Ballot as he did not submit paperwork to the new process, and there are GOP legal challenges to the new process instead.

    Which may mean that Haley wins Nevada, as she *is* registered in the new process.

    Can anyone elucidate, or am I am about right?

    But didn’t the GOP state party vote not to seat any delegates from the new process?

  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,248
    An interesting read on how Trump and Halley’s Tv ads are going https://twitter.com/Olivianuzzi/status/1749852102417891685
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,177

    isam said:

    I saw this earlier and thought it was a joke of some kind, AI, or a message to an old person on their birthday… but seems it really is a message to Farage from Sunak

    Bizarre

    WATCH: Rishi Sunak Sends Personal Message To Nigel Farage order-order.com/2024/01/23/wat…

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/1749738272526397475?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What on earth is he thinking?

    I really do think that a Farage-led party could end up ahead of the Tories in 2024 the way things are going.
    At great personal cost I want to Guido’s website for you.

    Latest ads from the Tories, spotted by James Heale, now have an option to create your own “personalised message” from Rishi Sunak. All you have to do is sign up your name, email address, town and what issue matters most to you. That’s certainly one way to gather a bunch of data…

    Guido decided he should do one on behalf of Nigel Farage. After wishing Nigel a happy New Year, Rishi goes on to say “like you, I think immigration levels are too high”. Touching…


    I’m going to have a shower. I feel dirty.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,256
    nico679 said:

    On a lighter note the Oscar nominations are out . The pile of self-indulgent crap Oppenheimer appears .

    Having fallen for all the hype I saw this . Far too long , tedious with severely annoying sound effects, disjointed and lacking in any real drama.

    I so wanted to like the film but would rather have a tooth extraction than sit through this overhyped film again .

    I’m glad “Nimona” got nominated.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,355

    isam said:

    I saw this earlier and thought it was a joke of some kind, AI, or a message to an old person on their birthday… but seems it really is a message to Farage from Sunak

    Bizarre

    WATCH: Rishi Sunak Sends Personal Message To Nigel Farage order-order.com/2024/01/23/wat…

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/1749738272526397475?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What on earth is he thinking?

    I really do think that a Farage-led party could end up ahead of the Tories in 2024 the way things are going.
    At great personal cost I want to Guido’s website for you.

    Latest ads from the Tories, spotted by James Heale, now have an option to create your own “personalised message” from Rishi Sunak. All you have to do is sign up your name, email address, town and what issue matters most to you. That’s certainly one way to gather a bunch of data…

    Guido decided he should do one on behalf of Nigel Farage. After wishing Nigel a happy New Year, Rishi goes on to say “like you, I think immigration levels are too high”. Touching…


    I’m going to have a shower. I feel dirty.
    Never mind the shower, did they say what they'd do with your even more private bits*?

    *As in data.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,544

    Andy_JS said:

    "Frank Farian: Boney M founder dies aged 82"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-68065904

    For a time in the early 1990s, Boney M were my favourite band. But I was in Sixth Form back then :lol:
    They had some really catchy songs, like Daddy Cool and Ma Baker. Still sound good today!
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,037

    isam said:

    That Farage ad makes Sunak look so weak, I can’t believe he’s actually done it. Who is going to be impressed? People who prefer Farage anyway will think it makes their man look stronger, people who hate Farage will think Rishi looks like his bitch! So strange

    It’s not an ad. It’s a system whereby a voter can order a “personalised” message from a website.

    I’m assuming that it is selected automatically from a stock of topics (ie you say you are worried about immigration and you get one; if you are worried about taxes you get another, etc)

    Stupid SPADs didn’t realise what would take people about 5 seconds to do…
    Nu10k way of thinking to blame the spads rather than the person in charge.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,744

    Chris said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I saw this earlier and thought it was a joke of some kind, AI, or a message to an old person on their birthday… but seems it really is a message to Farage from Sunak

    Bizarre

    WATCH: Rishi Sunak Sends Personal Message To Nigel Farage order-order.com/2024/01/23/wat…

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/1749738272526397475?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What on earth is he thinking?

    I really do think that a Farage-led party could end up ahead of the Tories in 2024 the way things are going.
    OK, "tell us your grumbles so we can play them back to you in a mailmerged letter" is old hat as campaign gimmicks go.

    And it wasn't really Rishi sending a grovelling video to Nigel F, it was Guido running the system to create that.

    But who on God's Good Earth thought this was a good idea? Of course it was going to be abused.

    (One of my theories about old-school election campaigns is that they're a reasonable proxy for government. If you can manage resources, people and ideas well enough to do a good stump campaign, you're probably to be trusted with the levers of power. On that basis, the Conservatives are doomed.)
    Ah, so it was a wind up of sorts.

    Latest ads from the Tories, spotted by James Heale, now have an option to create your own “personalised message” from Rishi Sunak. All you have to do is sign up your name, email address, town and what issue matters most to you. That’s certainly one way to gather a bunch of data…

    Guido decided he should do one on behalf of Nigel Farage. After wishing Nigel a happy New Year, Rishi goes on to say “like you, I think immigration levels are too high”. Touching…

    Nigel tells Guido:

    “I’m glad Rishi says he is finally taking my concerns seriously, but I think it’s going to take a bit more than a personalised video message to Stop the Boats”.

    Guido can confirm that none of this is AI, meaning Rishi has literally filmed all different versions of the video and has recorded himself saying various different names. It must have been a busy few days…


    https://order-order.com/2024/01/23/watch-rishi-sunak-sends-personal-message-to-nigel-farage/
    Can we look forward to a video of Rishi saying "like you, I doubt whether the Holocaust really happened"?
    "Hi Adolf, Happy New Year and thanks for raising your issue with me..."
    "Please! I like Germany!"
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,177

    isam said:

    I saw this earlier and thought it was a joke of some kind, AI, or a message to an old person on their birthday… but seems it really is a message to Farage from Sunak

    Bizarre

    WATCH: Rishi Sunak Sends Personal Message To Nigel Farage order-order.com/2024/01/23/wat…

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/1749738272526397475?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    It was order by Guido as a prank? Danger of automated systems
    But how did the "Daily Farage" paper get there? Was that added by Guido?
    I imagine that you have “first name” “issue” “name of paper” etc you type in
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,744
    nico679 said:

    On a lighter note the Oscar nominations are out . The pile of self-indulgent crap Oppenheimer appears .

    Having fallen for all the hype I saw this . Far too long , tedious with severely annoying sound effects, disjointed and lacking in any real drama.

    I so wanted to like the film but would rather have a tooth extraction than sit through this overhyped film again .

    But more useful than a sandwich!
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,036

    Barnesian said:

    Ms. Haley told reporters on Tuesday that she planned to continue her campaign regardless of the outcome in New Hampshire, and her campaign manager indicated as much in a memo shared with The New York Times.

    NY Times blog

    PredictIt gives her a 7% chance in NH


    It gives Trump and Biden an equal chance of the Presidency


    https://www.predictit.org/markets/3/President

    EDIT: There is an interesting divergence between PredictIt and Betfair.
    Note that only US citizens can sign up to PredictIt.

    Because non-Americans are overestimating the probability of a non-Biden Democrat winning?
    Newsom winning PreditIt 6%, Betfair 4% so no.
    Michelle winning PreditIt zero, Betfair 5% so yes.
    Biden winning PreditIt 47%, Betfair 33% Big difference!
    Trump winning PreditIt 47%, Betfair 47%
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,008
    edited January 23
    Spinner Shoaib Bashir has returned to the UK in order to sort the visa delay which is preventing him from joining the England squad in India.

    The uncapped 20-year-old, who is of Pakistani descent, was initially left in Abu Dhabi when the rest of the team travelled on Sunday.

    The Somerset off-spinner is still to receive the visa and will not be in India until at least the weekend.

    Bashir will miss the first Test in Hyderabad, beginning on Thursday.

    "I find it particularly frustrating," said England captain Ben Stokes. "We announced the squad in mid-December, and now Bash finds himself without a visa to get here.

    "I am more frustrated for him. I didn't want this type of situation to be his first experience of what it's like to be in the England Test team. I feel for him."

    India have not played any bilateral cricket against Pakistan since 2013 because of political tensions between the two countries.

    Bashir, a surprise inclusion in the England Test squad after playing only six first-class matches, is not the first cricketer with links to Pakistan to struggle to gain access to India.

    Australia opener Usman Khawaja, who was born in Pakistan, had his arrival for a Test tour last year delayed, while the entire Pakistan squad for last year's World Cup in India faced similar delays.

    BBC Test Match Special commentator Aatif Nawaz, whose family are from Pakistan, also faced delays in receiving a visa for the World Cup and ultimately did not travel to the tournament.

    Bashir's fellow England spinner, Rehan Ahmed, is also of Pakistani origin, but has a visa held over from last year as he acted as reserve for the World Cup squad.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/68069287
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,144

    nico679 said:

    On a lighter note the Oscar nominations are out . The pile of self-indulgent crap Oppenheimer appears .

    Having fallen for all the hype I saw this . Far too long , tedious with severely annoying sound effects, disjointed and lacking in any real drama.

    I so wanted to like the film but would rather have a tooth extraction than sit through this overhyped film again .

    I’m glad “Nimona” got nominated.
    I haven’t seen it . Will do on your recommendation.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,177
    Carnyx said:

    isam said:

    I saw this earlier and thought it was a joke of some kind, AI, or a message to an old person on their birthday… but seems it really is a message to Farage from Sunak

    Bizarre

    WATCH: Rishi Sunak Sends Personal Message To Nigel Farage order-order.com/2024/01/23/wat…

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/1749738272526397475?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What on earth is he thinking?

    I really do think that a Farage-led party could end up ahead of the Tories in 2024 the way things are going.
    At great personal cost I want to Guido’s website for you.

    Latest ads from the Tories, spotted by James Heale, now have an option to create your own “personalised message” from Rishi Sunak. All you have to do is sign up your name, email address, town and what issue matters most to you. That’s certainly one way to gather a bunch of data…

    Guido decided he should do one on behalf of Nigel Farage. After wishing Nigel a happy New Year, Rishi goes on to say “like you, I think immigration levels are too high”. Touching…


    I’m going to have a shower. I feel dirty.
    Never mind the shower, did they say what they'd do with your even more private bits*?

    *As in data.
    I assume that you agree to be appointed a proxy for non-resident voters?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,477

    isam said:

    I saw this earlier and thought it was a joke of some kind, AI, or a message to an old person on their birthday… but seems it really is a message to Farage from Sunak

    Bizarre

    WATCH: Rishi Sunak Sends Personal Message To Nigel Farage order-order.com/2024/01/23/wat…

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/1749738272526397475?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    It was order by Guido as a prank? Danger of automated systems
    But how did the "Daily Farage" paper get there? Was that added by Guido?
    I imagine that you have “first name” “issue” “name of paper” etc you type in
    But it's not generated by AI. Did they make Rishi record the "Hi Nigel..." bit for a long list of common names and then stitch it together to order?

    The most meaningless claim in the video was that "elsewhere in the world, boat crossings are up 80%". Where and why does it matter? There's only one English Channel.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,177

    isam said:

    That Farage ad makes Sunak look so weak, I can’t believe he’s actually done it. Who is going to be impressed? People who prefer Farage anyway will think it makes their man look stronger, people who hate Farage will think Rishi looks like his bitch! So strange

    It’s not an ad. It’s a system whereby a voter can order a “personalised” message from a website.

    I’m assuming that it is selected automatically from a stock of topics (ie you say you are worried about immigration and you get one; if you are worried about taxes you get another, etc)

    Stupid SPADs didn’t realise what would take people about 5 seconds to do…
    Nu10k way of thinking to blame the spads rather than the person in charge.
    I don’t expect the PM to think through the precise detail of this.

    But a halfway competent - hell a quarter way competent - politician should have looked at it and seen the risk immediately
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,822

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    This election is going to play very differently regionally. I expect the Tories to be all but wiped out in London, metropolitan areas and to have a shocker in the South West and Wales. Conversely, I think their vote will be stickier than expected in the midlands and in some northern county/small towns.

    I can't speak for the Midlands. For northern England they are going to get absolutely destroyed. Whilst there will remain pockets of shire Tories, all of the places where blue collar Boris Brexit Toryism exploded in 2019 will be lost. All. Maybe keep a random couple if they are lucky and the vote splits right to allow their collapse to still leave them on top.

    Why? Because, to get all northern again for a minute, they've done fuck all round here. Too. many morons unexpectedly elected, fed the spin lines by head office which they parrot about all the things they are delivering. Whilst delivering nothing. Voters are used to nothing, but they're not used to being lied to about it.

    Worse still is the parochial bigotry that was always close to the surface in many towns now whipped to a frenzy. They voted Brexit and then Boris to get the foreigners out. Gone. Its their fault we can't see a doctor, why the schools are crap, why there's no jobs and no money. And even in 2019 the lure of the further right was strong - the Brexit Party saved Labour in a stack of seats. I expect the number of FUKkers to be even higher this time, and vs 2019 they will mostly be transfers from Tory 2019 totals.

    It is going to be a political bloodbath. And well deserved - will be fun to see what Lord Ben I'll Sue Houchen will do with his local support all gone and the wolves closing in on the scent of malfeasance...
    Round here a comment I’ve heard often is where have all these coloured people come from.

    And it’s not usually as a racist comment we’ve always had a few people of Asian / African descent but there are noticeably more than used to be the case

    Granted a lot of the people complaining won’t actually vote but it does show how many people think Bozo and co have utterly failed to deliver what they promised
    It's a lot worse than "not delivering", they have done the opposite of delivering. We have had 1.3 million migrants in two years, which is: simply off the dial, unprecedented in our history, changing the country visibly and briskly, and is a larger rate per capita than any annual immigration into the "land of immigrants" - the USA

    We are importing more people than America in the era of Ellis Island. Take a minute and grasp that

    It is screamingly insane, it is a kind of Ponzi scheme, and all of this is happening as everyone admits the NHS can't cope, our sewage system can't cope, our infrastructure is fucked, and house-ownership is becoming a dream for anyone under 50

    The Tories are going to be obliterated, and deservedly, to the extent they may never recover

    However, Starmer will then have to tackle this issue. It cannot be ignored. What will he do?



    How much off that 1.3 million is Ukraine/Hong Kong and adjustments of student numbers after covid?
    I believe about 100-150,000 is Ukraine/HK

    Students dunno, but an awful lot of them have brought dependants (much more than usual), and a much higher propertion are now converting their student visas to work visas, so they stay


    Now it's great that people want to come here, it's good our unis are attractive, I am sure 98% of these people are fantastic brain surgeons to be, but the simple fact is the UK cannot cope with 700,000 net immigrants a year. Remember when Cameron vowed to get it down to tens of thousands? Now it is SEVEN HUNDRED THOUSAND

    To grasp this nettle will take courage. Does Starmer possess it? I doubt it, and it's not in Labour's nature to clamp down on migration
    It is perfectly possible to integrate 700K people in UK society a year.

    To do so will take investment in infrastructure, and in the effort to socially integrate them. Nothing is free, all the options require work to be done.
    What, in perpetuity? 700,000 a year for the next 30 years? That will add 20 million people to the population and transform entire cities and regions, in ethnicity, culture, religion, mores, laws, everything - coz those 20 million people won’t be from Ireland or Denmark

    This is absolute madness - and it really is the way you guarantee a far right party governing the country

    People like you are fucking dangerous
    It's worth pointing out, it took years and years and years and years and years just to integrate the Irish when there was mass immigration from Ireland in the 19th century. We still have separate Catholic schools. It's still the case that Irish surnames are disproportionately common among the poorest parts of white British society. Now the irish are foreign, but as foreigners go they're not very foreign.
    Integration is very very hard.
    Are you some kind of Nazi???

    Integrating 700,000 Africans, Asians, Muslims, Chinese, Indians, Bolivians, Peruvians every single year is fine. 1.3m every two years - good. 3 million every four years even better. Doddle. What’s your problem, DOCTOR GOEBBELS?? Don’t you like foreigners?

    All you have to do is look across Europe and see that the Hard and Far Right is now a minuscule and diminishing threat, even after large scale immigration, and everyone can tell that you are basically parroting Mein Kampf

    This is my objection to the 'progressive mindset'. 'Integration' is seen as a case of education and eliminating prejudice amongst the local population. Where this fails, then it can be compelled by law. However, this applies only to existing majority populations, not incomers. I have encountered this type of thinking amongst 'liberals' for 10 years and it is much in evidence on PB. The more extreme it gets, the more radical the eventual response will be. The rise of Trump, the AfD etc can be predicted almost like an algorhythm. If you think you can outlaw Trump and the AfD, then the response you eventually encounter gets more and more gruesome until you get an actual Hitler. In this way the left are responsible for the return of fascism, because it is all a product of their own fascism in ignoring legitimate opposition to their policies and suppressing ideas, speech and beliefs through law. In this context, it may not be such a bad idea to start working with the "far right" to address these problems, as they have been doing (for instance) in Finland for a decade.

    Indeed. This is why the Left is not just delusional, it is dangerous

    It is basically waving a THIS WAY sign to the next Hitler

    And they just don’t get it
    Around 2017 I switched from seeing the right as the most dangerous threat to civilisation, to the left. Not so much the political 'far left' but the left in terms of all its cultural power which encompasses most of mainstream politics and elite culture.

    When I think of the terrible politicians that have come to power, the likes of Trump, Orban, Erdoğan, Kaczyński, Milei, DeSantis… they’re not exactly centrists or social democrats, are they? I’m trying to think of an appropriate way of describing them all on the political spectrum…
    The cultural power of the left is quite difficult to encapsulate, it cannot easily be epitomised by one politician or leader. But it is very prevalent. For me it was a singer on tour in 2019 who stood on stage glorifying an act of terrorism and the audience cheering along. I had been programmed by education and culture to assume that 'the danger is from the right' because of the proximity to fascism, but actually I realised that it is the progressives that are almost always the bigger fascists, but they get a free pass. I am sure it will carry on going like this for the rest of my life.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,177

    isam said:

    I saw this earlier and thought it was a joke of some kind, AI, or a message to an old person on their birthday… but seems it really is a message to Farage from Sunak

    Bizarre

    WATCH: Rishi Sunak Sends Personal Message To Nigel Farage order-order.com/2024/01/23/wat…

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/1749738272526397475?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    It was order by Guido as a prank? Danger of automated systems
    But how did the "Daily Farage" paper get there? Was that added by Guido?
    I imagine that you have “first name” “issue” “name of paper” etc you type in
    But it's not generated by AI. Did they make Rishi record the "Hi Nigel..." bit for a long list of common names and then stitch it together to order?

    The most meaningless claim in the video was that "elsewhere in the world, boat crossings are up 80%". Where and why does it matter? There's only one English Channel.
    Probably. Safe way to occupy his time
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,211

    Chris said:

    isam said:

    Barnesian said:

    isam said:

    I saw this earlier and thought it was a joke of some kind, AI, or a message to an old person on their birthday… but seems it really is a message to Farage from Sunak

    Bizarre

    WATCH: Rishi Sunak Sends Personal Message To Nigel Farage order-order.com/2024/01/23/wat…

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/1749738272526397475?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Desperate stuff!
    He actually looks desperate with his head to one side, and a weak grin.
    I thought there was a possibility of Sunak & Sir Keir doing a Cameron & Brown style “I agree with Nigel” during the debates, but this is a bit much
    Did Sunak really say he was delivering "a whiter future"???
    No, he didn’t.

    It was BRIGHTER future

    But it’s intriguing that’s what you assumed he said and tried to publicise. I’m assuming you’re prejudiced about him

    It was a J O K E.

    But it's intriguing that you're so incredibly thick.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,256
    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    On a lighter note the Oscar nominations are out . The pile of self-indulgent crap Oppenheimer appears .

    Having fallen for all the hype I saw this . Far too long , tedious with severely annoying sound effects, disjointed and lacking in any real drama.

    I so wanted to like the film but would rather have a tooth extraction than sit through this overhyped film again .

    I’m glad “Nimona” got nominated.
    I haven’t seen it . Will do on your recommendation.
    Well, not knowing what sort of films you like, I wouldn’t be so bold as to make a recommendation.

    But it’s certainly a very different film to Oppenheimer!

    Last night, I watched Asterix & Obelix: The Middle Kingdom. I definitely do not recommend that.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,256

    isam said:

    I saw this earlier and thought it was a joke of some kind, AI, or a message to an old person on their birthday… but seems it really is a message to Farage from Sunak

    Bizarre

    WATCH: Rishi Sunak Sends Personal Message To Nigel Farage order-order.com/2024/01/23/wat…

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/1749738272526397475?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    It was order by Guido as a prank? Danger of automated systems
    But how did the "Daily Farage" paper get there? Was that added by Guido?
    I imagine that you have “first name” “issue” “name of paper” etc you type in
    But it's not generated by AI. Did they make Rishi record the "Hi Nigel..." bit for a long list of common names and then stitch it together to order?

    The most meaningless claim in the video was that "elsewhere in the world, boat crossings are up 80%". Where and why does it matter? There's only one English Channel.
    My nephew is planning to paddleboard across the Adriatic this year. Does that count?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,355

    Carnyx said:

    isam said:

    I saw this earlier and thought it was a joke of some kind, AI, or a message to an old person on their birthday… but seems it really is a message to Farage from Sunak

    Bizarre

    WATCH: Rishi Sunak Sends Personal Message To Nigel Farage order-order.com/2024/01/23/wat…

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/1749738272526397475?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What on earth is he thinking?

    I really do think that a Farage-led party could end up ahead of the Tories in 2024 the way things are going.
    At great personal cost I want to Guido’s website for you.

    Latest ads from the Tories, spotted by James Heale, now have an option to create your own “personalised message” from Rishi Sunak. All you have to do is sign up your name, email address, town and what issue matters most to you. That’s certainly one way to gather a bunch of data…

    Guido decided he should do one on behalf of Nigel Farage. After wishing Nigel a happy New Year, Rishi goes on to say “like you, I think immigration levels are too high”. Touching…


    I’m going to have a shower. I feel dirty.
    Never mind the shower, did they say what they'd do with your even more private bits*?

    *As in data.
    I assume that you agree to be appointed a proxy for non-resident voters?
    Hadn't thought of that! Very tempting, if not in the way Mr Sunak et al think it works.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,256
    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    This election is going to play very differently regionally. I expect the Tories to be all but wiped out in London, metropolitan areas and to have a shocker in the South West and Wales. Conversely, I think their vote will be stickier than expected in the midlands and in some northern county/small towns.

    I can't speak for the Midlands. For northern England they are going to get absolutely destroyed. Whilst there will remain pockets of shire Tories, all of the places where blue collar Boris Brexit Toryism exploded in 2019 will be lost. All. Maybe keep a random couple if they are lucky and the vote splits right to allow their collapse to still leave them on top.

    Why? Because, to get all northern again for a minute, they've done fuck all round here. Too. many morons unexpectedly elected, fed the spin lines by head office which they parrot about all the things they are delivering. Whilst delivering nothing. Voters are used to nothing, but they're not used to being lied to about it.

    Worse still is the parochial bigotry that was always close to the surface in many towns now whipped to a frenzy. They voted Brexit and then Boris to get the foreigners out. Gone. Its their fault we can't see a doctor, why the schools are crap, why there's no jobs and no money. And even in 2019 the lure of the further right was strong - the Brexit Party saved Labour in a stack of seats. I expect the number of FUKkers to be even higher this time, and vs 2019 they will mostly be transfers from Tory 2019 totals.

    It is going to be a political bloodbath. And well deserved - will be fun to see what Lord Ben I'll Sue Houchen will do with his local support all gone and the wolves closing in on the scent of malfeasance...
    Round here a comment I’ve heard often is where have all these coloured people come from.

    And it’s not usually as a racist comment we’ve always had a few people of Asian / African descent but there are noticeably more than used to be the case

    Granted a lot of the people complaining won’t actually vote but it does show how many people think Bozo and co have utterly failed to deliver what they promised
    It's a lot worse than "not delivering", they have done the opposite of delivering. We have had 1.3 million migrants in two years, which is: simply off the dial, unprecedented in our history, changing the country visibly and briskly, and is a larger rate per capita than any annual immigration into the "land of immigrants" - the USA

    We are importing more people than America in the era of Ellis Island. Take a minute and grasp that

    It is screamingly insane, it is a kind of Ponzi scheme, and all of this is happening as everyone admits the NHS can't cope, our sewage system can't cope, our infrastructure is fucked, and house-ownership is becoming a dream for anyone under 50

    The Tories are going to be obliterated, and deservedly, to the extent they may never recover

    However, Starmer will then have to tackle this issue. It cannot be ignored. What will he do?



    How much off that 1.3 million is Ukraine/Hong Kong and adjustments of student numbers after covid?
    I believe about 100-150,000 is Ukraine/HK

    Students dunno, but an awful lot of them have brought dependants (much more than usual), and a much higher propertion are now converting their student visas to work visas, so they stay


    Now it's great that people want to come here, it's good our unis are attractive, I am sure 98% of these people are fantastic brain surgeons to be, but the simple fact is the UK cannot cope with 700,000 net immigrants a year. Remember when Cameron vowed to get it down to tens of thousands? Now it is SEVEN HUNDRED THOUSAND

    To grasp this nettle will take courage. Does Starmer possess it? I doubt it, and it's not in Labour's nature to clamp down on migration
    It is perfectly possible to integrate 700K people in UK society a year.

    To do so will take investment in infrastructure, and in the effort to socially integrate them. Nothing is free, all the options require work to be done.
    What, in perpetuity? 700,000 a year for the next 30 years? That will add 20 million people to the population and transform entire cities and regions, in ethnicity, culture, religion, mores, laws, everything - coz those 20 million people won’t be from Ireland or Denmark

    This is absolute madness - and it really is the way you guarantee a far right party governing the country

    People like you are fucking dangerous
    It's worth pointing out, it took years and years and years and years and years just to integrate the Irish when there was mass immigration from Ireland in the 19th century. We still have separate Catholic schools. It's still the case that Irish surnames are disproportionately common among the poorest parts of white British society. Now the irish are foreign, but as foreigners go they're not very foreign.
    Integration is very very hard.
    Are you some kind of Nazi???

    Integrating 700,000 Africans, Asians, Muslims, Chinese, Indians, Bolivians, Peruvians every single year is fine. 1.3m every two years - good. 3 million every four years even better. Doddle. What’s your problem, DOCTOR GOEBBELS?? Don’t you like foreigners?

    All you have to do is look across Europe and see that the Hard and Far Right is now a minuscule and diminishing threat, even after large scale immigration, and everyone can tell that you are basically parroting Mein Kampf

    This is my objection to the 'progressive mindset'. 'Integration' is seen as a case of education and eliminating prejudice amongst the local population. Where this fails, then it can be compelled by law. However, this applies only to existing majority populations, not incomers. I have encountered this type of thinking amongst 'liberals' for 10 years and it is much in evidence on PB. The more extreme it gets, the more radical the eventual response will be. The rise of Trump, the AfD etc can be predicted almost like an algorhythm. If you think you can outlaw Trump and the AfD, then the response you eventually encounter gets more and more gruesome until you get an actual Hitler. In this way the left are responsible for the return of fascism, because it is all a product of their own fascism in ignoring legitimate opposition to their policies and suppressing ideas, speech and beliefs through law. In this context, it may not be such a bad idea to start working with the "far right" to address these problems, as they have been doing (for instance) in Finland for a decade.

    Indeed. This is why the Left is not just delusional, it is dangerous

    It is basically waving a THIS WAY sign to the next Hitler

    And they just don’t get it
    Around 2017 I switched from seeing the right as the most dangerous threat to civilisation, to the left. Not so much the political 'far left' but the left in terms of all its cultural power which encompasses most of mainstream politics and elite culture.

    When I think of the terrible politicians that have come to power, the likes of Trump, Orban, Erdoğan, Kaczyński, Milei, DeSantis… they’re not exactly centrists or social democrats, are they? I’m trying to think of an appropriate way of describing them all on the political spectrum…
    The cultural power of the left is quite difficult to encapsulate, it cannot easily be epitomised by one politician or leader. But it is very prevalent. For me it was a singer on tour in 2019 who stood on stage glorifying an act of terrorism and the audience cheering along. I had been programmed by education and culture to assume that 'the danger is from the right' because of the proximity to fascism, but actually I realised that it is the progressives that are almost always the bigger fascists, but they get a free pass. I am sure it will carry on going like this for the rest of my life.
    Vague blob-like threat. Gotcha.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,290
    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    This election is going to play very differently regionally. I expect the Tories to be all but wiped out in London, metropolitan areas and to have a shocker in the South West and Wales. Conversely, I think their vote will be stickier than expected in the midlands and in some northern county/small towns.

    I can't speak for the Midlands. For northern England they are going to get absolutely destroyed. Whilst there will remain pockets of shire Tories, all of the places where blue collar Boris Brexit Toryism exploded in 2019 will be lost. All. Maybe keep a random couple if they are lucky and the vote splits right to allow their collapse to still leave them on top.

    Why? Because, to get all northern again for a minute, they've done fuck all round here. Too. many morons unexpectedly elected, fed the spin lines by head office which they parrot about all the things they are delivering. Whilst delivering nothing. Voters are used to nothing, but they're not used to being lied to about it.

    Worse still is the parochial bigotry that was always close to the surface in many towns now whipped to a frenzy. They voted Brexit and then Boris to get the foreigners out. Gone. Its their fault we can't see a doctor, why the schools are crap, why there's no jobs and no money. And even in 2019 the lure of the further right was strong - the Brexit Party saved Labour in a stack of seats. I expect the number of FUKkers to be even higher this time, and vs 2019 they will mostly be transfers from Tory 2019 totals.

    It is going to be a political bloodbath. And well deserved - will be fun to see what Lord Ben I'll Sue Houchen will do with his local support all gone and the wolves closing in on the scent of malfeasance...
    Round here a comment I’ve heard often is where have all these coloured people come from.

    And it’s not usually as a racist comment we’ve always had a few people of Asian / African descent but there are noticeably more than used to be the case

    Granted a lot of the people complaining won’t actually vote but it does show how many people think Bozo and co have utterly failed to deliver what they promised
    It's a lot worse than "not delivering", they have done the opposite of delivering. We have had 1.3 million migrants in two years, which is: simply off the dial, unprecedented in our history, changing the country visibly and briskly, and is a larger rate per capita than any annual immigration into the "land of immigrants" - the USA

    We are importing more people than America in the era of Ellis Island. Take a minute and grasp that

    It is screamingly insane, it is a kind of Ponzi scheme, and all of this is happening as everyone admits the NHS can't cope, our sewage system can't cope, our infrastructure is fucked, and house-ownership is becoming a dream for anyone under 50

    The Tories are going to be obliterated, and deservedly, to the extent they may never recover

    However, Starmer will then have to tackle this issue. It cannot be ignored. What will he do?



    How much off that 1.3 million is Ukraine/Hong Kong and adjustments of student numbers after covid?
    I believe about 100-150,000 is Ukraine/HK

    Students dunno, but an awful lot of them have brought dependants (much more than usual), and a much higher propertion are now converting their student visas to work visas, so they stay


    Now it's great that people want to come here, it's good our unis are attractive, I am sure 98% of these people are fantastic brain surgeons to be, but the simple fact is the UK cannot cope with 700,000 net immigrants a year. Remember when Cameron vowed to get it down to tens of thousands? Now it is SEVEN HUNDRED THOUSAND

    To grasp this nettle will take courage. Does Starmer possess it? I doubt it, and it's not in Labour's nature to clamp down on migration
    It is perfectly possible to integrate 700K people in UK society a year.

    To do so will take investment in infrastructure, and in the effort to socially integrate them. Nothing is free, all the options require work to be done.
    What, in perpetuity? 700,000 a year for the next 30 years? That will add 20 million people to the population and transform entire cities and regions, in ethnicity, culture, religion, mores, laws, everything - coz those 20 million people won’t be from Ireland or Denmark

    This is absolute madness - and it really is the way you guarantee a far right party governing the country

    People like you are fucking dangerous
    It's worth pointing out, it took years and years and years and years and years just to integrate the Irish when there was mass immigration from Ireland in the 19th century. We still have separate Catholic schools. It's still the case that Irish surnames are disproportionately common among the poorest parts of white British society. Now the irish are foreign, but as foreigners go they're not very foreign.
    Integration is very very hard.
    Are you some kind of Nazi???

    Integrating 700,000 Africans, Asians, Muslims, Chinese, Indians, Bolivians, Peruvians every single year is fine. 1.3m every two years - good. 3 million every four years even better. Doddle. What’s your problem, DOCTOR GOEBBELS?? Don’t you like foreigners?

    All you have to do is look across Europe and see that the Hard and Far Right is now a minuscule and diminishing threat, even after large scale immigration, and everyone can tell that you are basically parroting Mein Kampf

    This is my objection to the 'progressive mindset'. 'Integration' is seen as a case of education and eliminating prejudice amongst the local population. Where this fails, then it can be compelled by law. However, this applies only to existing majority populations, not incomers. I have encountered this type of thinking amongst 'liberals' for 10 years and it is much in evidence on PB. The more extreme it gets, the more radical the eventual response will be. The rise of Trump, the AfD etc can be predicted almost like an algorhythm. If you think you can outlaw Trump and the AfD, then the response you eventually encounter gets more and more gruesome until you get an actual Hitler. In this way the left are responsible for the return of fascism, because it is all a product of their own fascism in ignoring legitimate opposition to their policies and suppressing ideas, speech and beliefs through law. In this context, it may not be such a bad idea to start working with the "far right" to address these problems, as they have been doing (for instance) in Finland for a decade.

    Indeed. This is why the Left is not just delusional, it is dangerous

    It is basically waving a THIS WAY sign to the next Hitler

    And they just don’t get it
    Around 2017 I switched from seeing the right as the most dangerous threat to civilisation, to the left. Not so much the political 'far left' but the left in terms of all its cultural power which encompasses most of mainstream politics and elite culture.

    When I think of the terrible politicians that have come to power, the likes of Trump, Orban, Erdoğan, Kaczyński, Milei, DeSantis… they’re not exactly centrists or social democrats, are they? I’m trying to think of an appropriate way of describing them all on the political spectrum…
    The cultural power of the left is quite difficult to encapsulate, it cannot easily be epitomised by one politician or leader. But it is very prevalent. For me it was a singer on tour in 2019 who stood on stage glorifying an act of terrorism and the audience cheering along. I had been programmed by education and culture to assume that 'the danger is from the right' because of the proximity to fascism, but actually I realised that it is the progressives that are almost always the bigger fascists, but they get a free pass. I am sure it will carry on going like this for the rest of my life.
    What singer was it and what act of terrorism? I've been to some dodgy gigs but I don't think I've ever seen one where people big up terrorists.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,102

    a

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    This election is going to play very differently regionally. I expect the Tories to be all but wiped out in London, metropolitan areas and to have a shocker in the South West and Wales. Conversely, I think their vote will be stickier than expected in the midlands and in some northern county/small towns.

    I can't speak for the Midlands. For northern England they are going to get absolutely destroyed. Whilst there will remain pockets of shire Tories, all of the places where blue collar Boris Brexit Toryism exploded in 2019 will be lost. All. Maybe keep a random couple if they are lucky and the vote splits right to allow their collapse to still leave them on top.

    Why? Because, to get all northern again for a minute, they've done fuck all round here. Too. many morons unexpectedly elected, fed the spin lines by head office which they parrot about all the things they are delivering. Whilst delivering nothing. Voters are used to nothing, but they're not used to being lied to about it.

    Worse still is the parochial bigotry that was always close to the surface in many towns now whipped to a frenzy. They voted Brexit and then Boris to get the foreigners out. Gone. Its their fault we can't see a doctor, why the schools are crap, why there's no jobs and no money. And even in 2019 the lure of the further right was strong - the Brexit Party saved Labour in a stack of seats. I expect the number of FUKkers to be even higher this time, and vs 2019 they will mostly be transfers from Tory 2019 totals.

    It is going to be a political bloodbath. And well deserved - will be fun to see what Lord Ben I'll Sue Houchen will do with his local support all gone and the wolves closing in on the scent of malfeasance...
    Round here a comment I’ve heard often is where have all these coloured people come from.

    And it’s not usually as a racist comment we’ve always had a few people of Asian / African descent but there are noticeably more than used to be the case

    Granted a lot of the people complaining won’t actually vote but it does show how many people think Bozo and co have utterly failed to deliver what they promised
    It's a lot worse than "not delivering", they have done the opposite of delivering. We have had 1.3 million migrants in two years, which is: simply off the dial, unprecedented in our history, changing the country visibly and briskly, and is a larger rate per capita than any annual immigration into the "land of immigrants" - the USA

    We are importing more people than America in the era of Ellis Island. Take a minute and grasp that

    It is screamingly insane, it is a kind of Ponzi scheme, and all of this is happening as everyone admits the NHS can't cope, our sewage system can't cope, our infrastructure is fucked, and house-ownership is becoming a dream for anyone under 50

    The Tories are going to be obliterated, and deservedly, to the extent they may never recover

    However, Starmer will then have to tackle this issue. It cannot be ignored. What will he do?



    How much off that 1.3 million is Ukraine/Hong Kong and adjustments of student numbers after covid?
    I believe about 100-150,000 is Ukraine/HK

    Students dunno, but an awful lot of them have brought dependants (much more than usual), and a much higher propertion are now converting their student visas to work visas, so they stay


    Now it's great that people want to come here, it's good our unis are attractive, I am sure 98% of these people are fantastic brain surgeons to be, but the simple fact is the UK cannot cope with 700,000 net immigrants a year. Remember when Cameron vowed to get it down to tens of thousands? Now it is SEVEN HUNDRED THOUSAND

    To grasp this nettle will take courage. Does Starmer possess it? I doubt it, and it's not in Labour's nature to clamp down on migration
    It is perfectly possible to integrate 700K people in UK society a year.

    To do so will take investment in infrastructure, and in the effort to socially integrate them. Nothing is free, all the options require work to be done.
    What, in perpetuity? 700,000 a year for the next 30 years? That will add 20 million people to the population and transform entire cities and regions, in ethnicity, culture, religion, mores, laws, everything - coz those 20 million people won’t be from Ireland or Denmark

    This is absolute madness - and it really is the way you guarantee a far right party governing the country

    People like you are fucking dangerous
    It's worth pointing out, it took years and years and years and years and years just to integrate the Irish when there was mass immigration from Ireland in the 19th century. We still have separate Catholic schools. It's still the case that Irish surnames are disproportionately common among the poorest parts of white British society. Now the irish are foreign, but as foreigners go they're not very foreign.
    Integration is very very hard.
    Are you some kind of Nazi???

    Integrating 700,000 Africans, Asians, Muslims, Chinese, Indians, Bolivians, Peruvians every single year is fine. 1.3m every two years - good. 3 million every four years even better. Doddle. What’s your problem, DOCTOR GOEBBELS?? Don’t you like foreigners?

    All you have to do is look across Europe and see that the Hard and Far Right is now a minuscule and diminishing threat, even after large scale immigration, and everyone can tell that you are basically parroting Mein Kampf

    This is my objection to the 'progressive mindset'. 'Integration' is seen as a case of education and eliminating prejudice amongst the local population. Where this fails, then it can be compelled by law. However, this applies only to existing majority populations, not incomers. I have encountered this type of thinking amongst 'liberals' for 10 years and it is much in evidence on PB. The more extreme it gets, the more radical the eventual response will be. The rise of Trump, the AfD etc can be predicted almost like an algorhythm. If you think you can outlaw Trump and the AfD, then the response you eventually encounter gets more and more gruesome until you get an actual Hitler. In this way the left are responsible for the return of fascism, because it is all a product of their own fascism in ignoring legitimate opposition to their policies and suppressing ideas, speech and beliefs through law. In this context, it may not be such a bad idea to start working with the "far right" to address these problems, as they have been doing (for instance) in Finland for a decade.

    Indeed. This is why the Left is not just delusional, it is dangerous

    It is basically waving a THIS WAY sign to the next Hitler

    And they just don’t get it
    Lol, reactionary arguing that "progress" is the problem, not being a reactionary. Might as well say "look, it's not okay to allow the gays out of the closet, because it's a THIS WAY sign to the next Hitler. Can't give equal rights to women; because what if Hitler?".

    The main issue is that liberals (separate group from leftists or the left) refuse to meet these progressive values with progressive material improvements for all people. I remember reading a great study that showed men in the workplace saw improvements for women in the workplace as a zero sum situation - if women gained they must be losing. The same for white men thinking about people of colour. But that feeling was, in part, because the "benefits" of being a man or being white in the workforce were "making up" for where their salaries lacked - the social benefits of being a white man in the workforce were a wage supplement, in a sense, and so when those "benefits" disappeared (by tackling bigotry) they felt they were "losing out".
    That would make more sense if so many of the people immigrating weren't the actual cultural and social reactionaries. You talk about equal rights for gays and women as if that's somehow an inevitable corollary of immigration because both are 'progressive'. Where are the biggest obstacles in society now to those rights? It's not gammons in the golf clubs or WWCM in the pubs.
    Quite so

    The quickest and easiest way to get homosexuality made illegal again, in the UK, is to import about 5m more Muslims with homophobic opinions. That would be enough, if these people caucus, to make a real impact on elections such that homosexuality is once more illegal, and the British Left won’t raise a peep of protest until it is far far too Iate



    One thing I find interesting is how some cultures adopt to being immigrants.

    For example, Peru. I know the place fairly well. On paper, pretty reactionary (1950s) social values. In actuality, the Peruvians I know, who immigrated, have instantly adopted the British "none-of-my-business-their-private-life" reaction to gay and trans people, have no qualms about abortion etc etc. Yet they were brought up to a rather different set of views at home.
    Yes, this is what happens with most immigrants.
    I can just imagine what would happen if some of Peruvians I know had kids at that school where people are threatening the teachers. Peruvians regard education and good teachers as just below the Pope in social value.

    They would share their culture…
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,744

    a

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    This election is going to play very differently regionally. I expect the Tories to be all but wiped out in London, metropolitan areas and to have a shocker in the South West and Wales. Conversely, I think their vote will be stickier than expected in the midlands and in some northern county/small towns.

    I can't speak for the Midlands. For northern England they are going to get absolutely destroyed. Whilst there will remain pockets of shire Tories, all of the places where blue collar Boris Brexit Toryism exploded in 2019 will be lost. All. Maybe keep a random couple if they are lucky and the vote splits right to allow their collapse to still leave them on top.

    Why? Because, to get all northern again for a minute, they've done fuck all round here. Too. many morons unexpectedly elected, fed the spin lines by head office which they parrot about all the things they are delivering. Whilst delivering nothing. Voters are used to nothing, but they're not used to being lied to about it.

    Worse still is the parochial bigotry that was always close to the surface in many towns now whipped to a frenzy. They voted Brexit and then Boris to get the foreigners out. Gone. Its their fault we can't see a doctor, why the schools are crap, why there's no jobs and no money. And even in 2019 the lure of the further right was strong - the Brexit Party saved Labour in a stack of seats. I expect the number of FUKkers to be even higher this time, and vs 2019 they will mostly be transfers from Tory 2019 totals.

    It is going to be a political bloodbath. And well deserved - will be fun to see what Lord Ben I'll Sue Houchen will do with his local support all gone and the wolves closing in on the scent of malfeasance...
    Round here a comment I’ve heard often is where have all these coloured people come from.

    And it’s not usually as a racist comment we’ve always had a few people of Asian / African descent but there are noticeably more than used to be the case

    Granted a lot of the people complaining won’t actually vote but it does show how many people think Bozo and co have utterly failed to deliver what they promised
    It's a lot worse than "not delivering", they have done the opposite of delivering. We have had 1.3 million migrants in two years, which is: simply off the dial, unprecedented in our history, changing the country visibly and briskly, and is a larger rate per capita than any annual immigration into the "land of immigrants" - the USA

    We are importing more people than America in the era of Ellis Island. Take a minute and grasp that

    It is screamingly insane, it is a kind of Ponzi scheme, and all of this is happening as everyone admits the NHS can't cope, our sewage system can't cope, our infrastructure is fucked, and house-ownership is becoming a dream for anyone under 50

    The Tories are going to be obliterated, and deservedly, to the extent they may never recover

    However, Starmer will then have to tackle this issue. It cannot be ignored. What will he do?



    How much off that 1.3 million is Ukraine/Hong Kong and adjustments of student numbers after covid?
    I believe about 100-150,000 is Ukraine/HK

    Students dunno, but an awful lot of them have brought dependants (much more than usual), and a much higher propertion are now converting their student visas to work visas, so they stay


    Now it's great that people want to come here, it's good our unis are attractive, I am sure 98% of these people are fantastic brain surgeons to be, but the simple fact is the UK cannot cope with 700,000 net immigrants a year. Remember when Cameron vowed to get it down to tens of thousands? Now it is SEVEN HUNDRED THOUSAND

    To grasp this nettle will take courage. Does Starmer possess it? I doubt it, and it's not in Labour's nature to clamp down on migration
    It is perfectly possible to integrate 700K people in UK society a year.

    To do so will take investment in infrastructure, and in the effort to socially integrate them. Nothing is free, all the options require work to be done.
    What, in perpetuity? 700,000 a year for the next 30 years? That will add 20 million people to the population and transform entire cities and regions, in ethnicity, culture, religion, mores, laws, everything - coz those 20 million people won’t be from Ireland or Denmark

    This is absolute madness - and it really is the way you guarantee a far right party governing the country

    People like you are fucking dangerous
    It's worth pointing out, it took years and years and years and years and years just to integrate the Irish when there was mass immigration from Ireland in the 19th century. We still have separate Catholic schools. It's still the case that Irish surnames are disproportionately common among the poorest parts of white British society. Now the irish are foreign, but as foreigners go they're not very foreign.
    Integration is very very hard.
    Are you some kind of Nazi???

    Integrating 700,000 Africans, Asians, Muslims, Chinese, Indians, Bolivians, Peruvians every single year is fine. 1.3m every two years - good. 3 million every four years even better. Doddle. What’s your problem, DOCTOR GOEBBELS?? Don’t you like foreigners?

    All you have to do is look across Europe and see that the Hard and Far Right is now a minuscule and diminishing threat, even after large scale immigration, and everyone can tell that you are basically parroting Mein Kampf

    This is my objection to the 'progressive mindset'. 'Integration' is seen as a case of education and eliminating prejudice amongst the local population. Where this fails, then it can be compelled by law. However, this applies only to existing majority populations, not incomers. I have encountered this type of thinking amongst 'liberals' for 10 years and it is much in evidence on PB. The more extreme it gets, the more radical the eventual response will be. The rise of Trump, the AfD etc can be predicted almost like an algorhythm. If you think you can outlaw Trump and the AfD, then the response you eventually encounter gets more and more gruesome until you get an actual Hitler. In this way the left are responsible for the return of fascism, because it is all a product of their own fascism in ignoring legitimate opposition to their policies and suppressing ideas, speech and beliefs through law. In this context, it may not be such a bad idea to start working with the "far right" to address these problems, as they have been doing (for instance) in Finland for a decade.

    Indeed. This is why the Left is not just delusional, it is dangerous

    It is basically waving a THIS WAY sign to the next Hitler

    And they just don’t get it
    Lol, reactionary arguing that "progress" is the problem, not being a reactionary. Might as well say "look, it's not okay to allow the gays out of the closet, because it's a THIS WAY sign to the next Hitler. Can't give equal rights to women; because what if Hitler?".

    The main issue is that liberals (separate group from leftists or the left) refuse to meet these progressive values with progressive material improvements for all people. I remember reading a great study that showed men in the workplace saw improvements for women in the workplace as a zero sum situation - if women gained they must be losing. The same for white men thinking about people of colour. But that feeling was, in part, because the "benefits" of being a man or being white in the workforce were "making up" for where their salaries lacked - the social benefits of being a white man in the workforce were a wage supplement, in a sense, and so when those "benefits" disappeared (by tackling bigotry) they felt they were "losing out".
    That would make more sense if so many of the people immigrating weren't the actual cultural and social reactionaries. You talk about equal rights for gays and women as if that's somehow an inevitable corollary of immigration because both are 'progressive'. Where are the biggest obstacles in society now to those rights? It's not gammons in the golf clubs or WWCM in the pubs.
    Quite so

    The quickest and easiest way to get homosexuality made illegal again, in the UK, is to import about 5m more Muslims with homophobic opinions. That would be enough, if these people caucus, to make a real impact on elections such that homosexuality is once more illegal, and the British Left won’t raise a peep of protest until it is far far too Iate



    One thing I find interesting is how some cultures adopt to being immigrants.

    For example, Peru. I know the place fairly well. On paper, pretty reactionary (1950s) social values. In actuality, the Peruvians I know, who immigrated, have instantly adopted the British "none-of-my-business-their-private-life" reaction to gay and trans people, have no qualms about abortion etc etc. Yet they were brought up to a rather different set of views at home.
    Yes, this is what happens with most immigrants.
    I can just imagine what would happen if some of Peruvians I know had kids at that school where people are threatening the teachers. Peruvians regard education and good teachers as just below the Pope in social value.

    They would share their culture…
    Racism against Paddington!
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,290

    isam said:

    I saw this earlier and thought it was a joke of some kind, AI, or a message to an old person on their birthday… but seems it really is a message to Farage from Sunak

    Bizarre

    WATCH: Rishi Sunak Sends Personal Message To Nigel Farage order-order.com/2024/01/23/wat…

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/1749738272526397475?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What on earth is he thinking?

    I really do think that a Farage-led party could end up ahead of the Tories in 2024 the way things are going.
    At great personal cost I want to Guido’s website for you.

    Latest ads from the Tories, spotted by James Heale, now have an option to create your own “personalised message” from Rishi Sunak. All you have to do is sign up your name, email address, town and what issue matters most to you. That’s certainly one way to gather a bunch of data…

    Guido decided he should do one on behalf of Nigel Farage. After wishing Nigel a happy New Year, Rishi goes on to say “like you, I think immigration levels are too high”. Touching…


    I’m going to have a shower. I feel dirty.
    "Happy New Year, StillWaters. I'm Rishi Sunak. Like you, I feel dirty and need a shower .."

    What this shambles tells us is that Rishi is prepared to put his name on any old nonsense put before him.
    He signed the Rwanda bill so I think we knew that already.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,500
    I don't know the context of or details of the case in question, but I'm still confident the Court should really not have been surprised by this particular point.

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,500

    Small but astonishing moment in this mornng's evidence at the PO Inquiry.

    The witness is another 'Investigator' and it emerged that when he submitted his cv for the job, he put forward his wife's qualifications as his own!

    The PO certainly found some pond life to carry out its dirty work.

    That’s called obtaining a pecuniary advantage by deception.
    No doubt one of those things where otherwise intelligent individuals will claim it was all just too complicated for them to understand complex things like...ethics.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,905
    Germany’s top court on Tuesday stripped a neo-Nazi party of the right to public financing and the tax advantages normally extended to political organizations, a decision that could provide a blueprint for government efforts to head off a resurgence of the far right.

    Although the party, Die Heimat, which means the Homeland, was already too small to receive public funding, the case was closely watched because it could have implications for countering the Alternative for Germany, or AfD, a far more popular far-right party.

    NY Times

  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,037

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    This election is going to play very differently regionally. I expect the Tories to be all but wiped out in London, metropolitan areas and to have a shocker in the South West and Wales. Conversely, I think their vote will be stickier than expected in the midlands and in some northern county/small towns.

    I can't speak for the Midlands. For northern England they are going to get absolutely destroyed. Whilst there will remain pockets of shire Tories, all of the places where blue collar Boris Brexit Toryism exploded in 2019 will be lost. All. Maybe keep a random couple if they are lucky and the vote splits right to allow their collapse to still leave them on top.

    Why? Because, to get all northern again for a minute, they've done fuck all round here. Too. many morons unexpectedly elected, fed the spin lines by head office which they parrot about all the things they are delivering. Whilst delivering nothing. Voters are used to nothing, but they're not used to being lied to about it.

    Worse still is the parochial bigotry that was always close to the surface in many towns now whipped to a frenzy. They voted Brexit and then Boris to get the foreigners out. Gone. Its their fault we can't see a doctor, why the schools are crap, why there's no jobs and no money. And even in 2019 the lure of the further right was strong - the Brexit Party saved Labour in a stack of seats. I expect the number of FUKkers to be even higher this time, and vs 2019 they will mostly be transfers from Tory 2019 totals.

    It is going to be a political bloodbath. And well deserved - will be fun to see what Lord Ben I'll Sue Houchen will do with his local support all gone and the wolves closing in on the scent of malfeasance...
    Round here a comment I’ve heard often is where have all these coloured people come from.

    And it’s not usually as a racist comment we’ve always had a few people of Asian / African descent but there are noticeably more than used to be the case

    Granted a lot of the people complaining won’t actually vote but it does show how many people think Bozo and co have utterly failed to deliver what they promised
    It's a lot worse than "not delivering", they have done the opposite of delivering. We have had 1.3 million migrants in two years, which is: simply off the dial, unprecedented in our history, changing the country visibly and briskly, and is a larger rate per capita than any annual immigration into the "land of immigrants" - the USA

    We are importing more people than America in the era of Ellis Island. Take a minute and grasp that

    It is screamingly insane, it is a kind of Ponzi scheme, and all of this is happening as everyone admits the NHS can't cope, our sewage system can't cope, our infrastructure is fucked, and house-ownership is becoming a dream for anyone under 50

    The Tories are going to be obliterated, and deservedly, to the extent they may never recover

    However, Starmer will then have to tackle this issue. It cannot be ignored. What will he do?



    How much off that 1.3 million is Ukraine/Hong Kong and adjustments of student numbers after covid?
    I believe about 100-150,000 is Ukraine/HK

    Students dunno, but an awful lot of them have brought dependants (much more than usual), and a much higher propertion are now converting their student visas to work visas, so they stay


    Now it's great that people want to come here, it's good our unis are attractive, I am sure 98% of these people are fantastic brain surgeons to be, but the simple fact is the UK cannot cope with 700,000 net immigrants a year. Remember when Cameron vowed to get it down to tens of thousands? Now it is SEVEN HUNDRED THOUSAND

    To grasp this nettle will take courage. Does Starmer possess it? I doubt it, and it's not in Labour's nature to clamp down on migration
    It is perfectly possible to integrate 700K people in UK society a year.

    To do so will take investment in infrastructure, and in the effort to socially integrate them. Nothing is free, all the options require work to be done.
    What, in perpetuity? 700,000 a year for the next 30 years? That will add 20 million people to the population and transform entire cities and regions, in ethnicity, culture, religion, mores, laws, everything - coz those 20 million people won’t be from Ireland or Denmark

    This is absolute madness - and it really is the way you guarantee a far right party governing the country

    People like you are fucking dangerous
    It's worth pointing out, it took years and years and years and years and years just to integrate the Irish when there was mass immigration from Ireland in the 19th century. We still have separate Catholic schools. It's still the case that Irish surnames are disproportionately common among the poorest parts of white British society. Now the irish are foreign, but as foreigners go they're not very foreign.
    Integration is very very hard.
    Are you some kind of Nazi???

    Integrating 700,000 Africans, Asians, Muslims, Chinese, Indians, Bolivians, Peruvians every single year is fine. 1.3m every two years - good. 3 million every four years even better. Doddle. What’s your problem, DOCTOR GOEBBELS?? Don’t you like foreigners?

    All you have to do is look across Europe and see that the Hard and Far Right is now a minuscule and diminishing threat, even after large scale immigration, and everyone can tell that you are basically parroting Mein Kampf

    This is my objection to the 'progressive mindset'. 'Integration' is seen as a case of education and eliminating prejudice amongst the local population. Where this fails, then it can be compelled by law. However, this applies only to existing majority populations, not incomers. I have encountered this type of thinking amongst 'liberals' for 10 years and it is much in evidence on PB. The more extreme it gets, the more radical the eventual response will be. The rise of Trump, the AfD etc can be predicted almost like an algorhythm. If you think you can outlaw Trump and the AfD, then the response you eventually encounter gets more and more gruesome until you get an actual Hitler. In this way the left are responsible for the return of fascism, because it is all a product of their own fascism in ignoring legitimate opposition to their policies and suppressing ideas, speech and beliefs through law. In this context, it may not be such a bad idea to start working with the "far right" to address these problems, as they have been doing (for instance) in Finland for a decade.

    Indeed. This is why the Left is not just delusional, it is dangerous

    It is basically waving a THIS WAY sign to the next Hitler

    And they just don’t get it
    Around 2017 I switched from seeing the right as the most dangerous threat to civilisation, to the left. Not so much the political 'far left' but the left in terms of all its cultural power which encompasses most of mainstream politics and elite culture.

    When I think of the terrible politicians that have come to power, the likes of Trump, Orban, Erdoğan, Kaczyński, Milei, DeSantis… they’re not exactly centrists or social democrats, are they? I’m trying to think of an appropriate way of describing them all on the political spectrum…
    The cultural power of the left is quite difficult to encapsulate, it cannot easily be epitomised by one politician or leader. But it is very prevalent. For me it was a singer on tour in 2019 who stood on stage glorifying an act of terrorism and the audience cheering along. I had been programmed by education and culture to assume that 'the danger is from the right' because of the proximity to fascism, but actually I realised that it is the progressives that are almost always the bigger fascists, but they get a free pass. I am sure it will carry on going like this for the rest of my life.
    Vague blob-like threat. Gotcha.
    Even if it were true. Decades of fairly authoritarian government vs one liberal lefty terrorist loving singer.

    Which to blame for the ills of society?
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,177
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    isam said:

    Barnesian said:

    isam said:

    I saw this earlier and thought it was a joke of some kind, AI, or a message to an old person on their birthday… but seems it really is a message to Farage from Sunak

    Bizarre

    WATCH: Rishi Sunak Sends Personal Message To Nigel Farage order-order.com/2024/01/23/wat…

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/1749738272526397475?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Desperate stuff!
    He actually looks desperate with his head to one side, and a weak grin.
    I thought there was a possibility of Sunak & Sir Keir doing a Cameron & Brown style “I agree with Nigel” during the debates, but this is a bit much
    Did Sunak really say he was delivering "a whiter future"???
    No, he didn’t.

    It was BRIGHTER future

    But it’s intriguing that’s what you assumed he said and tried to publicise. I’m assuming you’re prejudiced about him

    It was a J O K E.

    But it's intriguing that you're so incredibly thick.
    No, it was a lie and an attack on someone with whom you disagree politically.

    There was nothing remotely funny or satirical about it.

    But you were caught so followed up with a personal attack on me.

    As for me, I take people at face value until proven otherwise and I believe that lies should not go unchallenged.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,500

    isam said:

    I saw this earlier and thought it was a joke of some kind, AI, or a message to an old person on their birthday… but seems it really is a message to Farage from Sunak

    Bizarre

    WATCH: Rishi Sunak Sends Personal Message To Nigel Farage order-order.com/2024/01/23/wat…

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/1749738272526397475?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What on earth is he thinking?

    I really do think that a Farage-led party could end up ahead of the Tories in 2024 the way things are going.
    At great personal cost I want to Guido’s website for you.

    Latest ads from the Tories, spotted by James Heale, now have an option to create your own “personalised message” from Rishi Sunak. All you have to do is sign up your name, email address, town and what issue matters most to you. That’s certainly one way to gather a bunch of data…

    Guido decided he should do one on behalf of Nigel Farage. After wishing Nigel a happy New Year, Rishi goes on to say “like you, I think immigration levels are too high”. Touching…


    I’m going to have a shower. I feel dirty.
    "Happy New Year, StillWaters. I'm Rishi Sunak. Like you, I feel dirty and need a shower .."

    What this shambles tells us is that Rishi is prepared to put his name on any old nonsense put before him.
    A drowning man will grab anything that even vaguely resembles a rope.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,744
    nico679 said:

    On a lighter note the Oscar nominations are out . The pile of self-indulgent crap Oppenheimer appears .

    Having fallen for all the hype I saw this . Far too long , tedious with severely annoying sound effects, disjointed and lacking in any real drama.

    I so wanted to like the film but would rather have a tooth extraction than sit through this overhyped film again .

    Don't tell me: you preferred Barbie? :lol:
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,744

    Spinner Shoaib Bashir has returned to the UK in order to sort the visa delay which is preventing him from joining the England squad in India.

    The uncapped 20-year-old, who is of Pakistani descent, was initially left in Abu Dhabi when the rest of the team travelled on Sunday.

    The Somerset off-spinner is still to receive the visa and will not be in India until at least the weekend.

    Bashir will miss the first Test in Hyderabad, beginning on Thursday.

    "I find it particularly frustrating," said England captain Ben Stokes. "We announced the squad in mid-December, and now Bash finds himself without a visa to get here.

    "I am more frustrated for him. I didn't want this type of situation to be his first experience of what it's like to be in the England Test team. I feel for him."

    India have not played any bilateral cricket against Pakistan since 2013 because of political tensions between the two countries.

    Bashir, a surprise inclusion in the England Test squad after playing only six first-class matches, is not the first cricketer with links to Pakistan to struggle to gain access to India.

    Australia opener Usman Khawaja, who was born in Pakistan, had his arrival for a Test tour last year delayed, while the entire Pakistan squad for last year's World Cup in India faced similar delays.

    BBC Test Match Special commentator Aatif Nawaz, whose family are from Pakistan, also faced delays in receiving a visa for the World Cup and ultimately did not travel to the tournament.

    Bashir's fellow England spinner, Rehan Ahmed, is also of Pakistani origin, but has a visa held over from last year as he acted as reserve for the World Cup squad.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/68069287

    The rest of the England squad should refuse to go until it gets sorted, I imagine that might focus minds in Delhi.
    The Ram Temple will bring Modi and India eternal glory!
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,500
    nico679 said:

    On a lighter note the Oscar nominations are out . The pile of self-indulgent crap Oppenheimer appears .

    Having fallen for all the hype I saw this . Far too long , tedious with severely annoying sound effects, disjointed and lacking in any real drama.

    I so wanted to like the film but would rather have a tooth extraction than sit through this overhyped film again .

    It was overlong and with a non-linear narrative which served no clear purpose other than to make it more artsy. It was...ok.

    I feel like Nolan gets way too much leeway because his films look nice.

  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,744
    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    On a lighter note the Oscar nominations are out . The pile of self-indulgent crap Oppenheimer appears .

    Having fallen for all the hype I saw this . Far too long , tedious with severely annoying sound effects, disjointed and lacking in any real drama.

    I so wanted to like the film but would rather have a tooth extraction than sit through this overhyped film again .

    It was overlong and with a non-linear narrative which served no clear purpose other than to make it more artsy. It was...ok.

    I feel like Nolan gets way too much leeway because his films look nice.

    Don't tell me: you preferred Barbie too? :lol:
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,087

    isam said:

    That Farage ad makes Sunak look so weak, I can’t believe he’s actually done it. Who is going to be impressed? People who prefer Farage anyway will think it makes their man look stronger, people who hate Farage will think Rishi looks like his bitch! So strange

    It’s not an ad. It’s a system whereby a voter can order a “personalised” message from a website.

    I’m assuming that it is selected automatically from a stock of topics (ie you say you are worried about immigration and you get one; if you are worried about taxes you get another, etc)

    Stupid SPADs didn’t realise what would take people about 5 seconds to do…
    I wonder if you’ll get people pretending to be Jimmy Savile and Peter Sutcliffe, like Walker’s crisps.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,544
    nico679 said:

    On a lighter note the Oscar nominations are out . The pile of self-indulgent crap Oppenheimer appears .

    Having fallen for all the hype I saw this . Far too long , tedious with severely annoying sound effects, disjointed and lacking in any real drama.

    I so wanted to like the film but would rather have a tooth extraction than sit through this overhyped film again .

    I agree to a certain extent. It was okay but nowhere near as good as a lot of people seem to think. Haven't seen Barbie yet.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,668
    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    On a lighter note the Oscar nominations are out . The pile of self-indulgent crap Oppenheimer appears .

    Having fallen for all the hype I saw this . Far too long , tedious with severely annoying sound effects, disjointed and lacking in any real drama.

    I so wanted to like the film but would rather have a tooth extraction than sit through this overhyped film again .

    It was overlong and with a non-linear narrative which served no clear purpose other than to make it more artsy. It was...ok.

    I feel like Nolan gets way too much leeway because his films look nice.

    I thought it was terrific. Best film I have seen at the cinema for several years. Started well and got better and better. The last hour was great.

    Not so sure that it would be as gripping on the TV so I haven't paid to watch it again on Sky but I will eventually. Really don't understand what some people have against it.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,402
    viewcode said:

    Barnesian said:

    Ms. Haley told reporters on Tuesday that she planned to continue her campaign regardless of the outcome in New Hampshire, and her campaign manager indicated as much in a memo shared with The New York Times.

    NY Times blog

    PredictIt gives her a 7% chance in NH


    It gives Trump and Biden an equal chance of the Presidency


    https://www.predictit.org/markets/3/President

    EDIT: There is an interesting divergence between PredictIt and Betfair.
    Note that only US citizens can sign up to PredictIt.

    Predictit and Betfair Exchange and Betfair Sportsbook are different things
    • Predictit is a prediction market: one player bets on something with toy money, another bets against, Predictit keeps track
    • Betfair Exchange is an exchange market: one player bets on something with real money, another bets against with real money, BE keeps track and takes a cut
    • Betfair Sportsbook is a bookmaker: it bet against something, you bet on it
    Errr

    PredicIt uses real money
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,500

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    On a lighter note the Oscar nominations are out . The pile of self-indulgent crap Oppenheimer appears .

    Having fallen for all the hype I saw this . Far too long , tedious with severely annoying sound effects, disjointed and lacking in any real drama.

    I so wanted to like the film but would rather have a tooth extraction than sit through this overhyped film again .

    It was overlong and with a non-linear narrative which served no clear purpose other than to make it more artsy. It was...ok.

    I feel like Nolan gets way too much leeway because his films look nice.

    Don't tell me: you preferred Barbie too? :lol:
    Not really. That was visually striking (at least in the first half) and probably as good as a Barbie movie could be for adults, but it was very inconsistent and it only had, like, two jokes/points, which it just repeated over and over. It was...fine.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,544
    edited January 23

    Small but astonishing moment in this mornng's evidence at the PO Inquiry.

    The witness is another 'Investigator' and it emerged that when he submitted his cv for the job, he put forward his wife's qualifications as his own!

    The PO certainly found some pond life to carry out its dirty work.

    He claims it was a mistake. Interesting that, for a long time, he was the only PO investigator in Scotland.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,087
    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    I saw this earlier and thought it was a joke of some kind, AI, or a message to an old person on their birthday… but seems it really is a message to Farage from Sunak

    Bizarre

    WATCH: Rishi Sunak Sends Personal Message To Nigel Farage order-order.com/2024/01/23/wat…

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/1749738272526397475?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    What on earth is he thinking?

    I really do think that a Farage-led party could end up ahead of the Tories in 2024 the way things are going.
    At great personal cost I want to Guido’s website for you.

    Latest ads from the Tories, spotted by James Heale, now have an option to create your own “personalised message” from Rishi Sunak. All you have to do is sign up your name, email address, town and what issue matters most to you. That’s certainly one way to gather a bunch of data…

    Guido decided he should do one on behalf of Nigel Farage. After wishing Nigel a happy New Year, Rishi goes on to say “like you, I think immigration levels are too high”. Touching…


    I’m going to have a shower. I feel dirty.
    "Happy New Year, StillWaters. I'm Rishi Sunak. Like you, I feel dirty and need a shower .."

    What this shambles tells us is that Rishi is prepared to put his name on any old nonsense put before him.
    A drowning man will grab anything that even vaguely resembles a rope.
    The Turks express it best:

    “A drowning man will clutch at a serpent.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,544
    "@FrankLuntz

    Q: How much money do you have in your personal savings accounts?

    • 22% - No savings
    • 20% - Less than $1,000
    • 15% - $1,000 to $5,000
    • 10% - $5,000 to $10,000
    • 13% - $10,000 to $20,000
    • 20% - More than $20,000

    https://newsweek.com/americans-have-burned-through-their-savings-1862843"

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1749633949062906083
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,500
    edited January 23
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    On a lighter note the Oscar nominations are out . The pile of self-indulgent crap Oppenheimer appears .

    Having fallen for all the hype I saw this . Far too long , tedious with severely annoying sound effects, disjointed and lacking in any real drama.

    I so wanted to like the film but would rather have a tooth extraction than sit through this overhyped film again .

    It was overlong and with a non-linear narrative which served no clear purpose other than to make it more artsy. It was...ok.

    I feel like Nolan gets way too much leeway because his films look nice.

    I thought it was terrific. Best film I have seen at the cinema for several years. Started well and got better and better. The last hour was great.

    Not so sure that it would be as gripping on the TV so I haven't paid to watch it again on Sky but I will eventually. Really don't understand what some people have against it.
    I have nothing against it, it just didn't grab me. Acting was good, production was excellent, it held my attention. But I'll probably never feel the urge to ever watch it again. I find Nolan to be technically excellent most of the time but not very engaging (Tenet aside, which was just crap).

    Whereas something like Poor Things is a lesser movie (and goddamn that director has the worst soundtracks/scores I've ever heard in my life), and a bit try hard in its quirkiness, but provides more to talk about.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,500
    Andy_JS said:

    "@FrankLuntz

    Q: How much money do you have in your personal savings accounts?

    • 22% - No savings
    • 20% - Less than $1,000
    • 15% - $1,000 to $5,000
    • 10% - $5,000 to $10,000
    • 13% - $10,000 to $20,000
    • 20% - More than $20,000

    https://newsweek.com/americans-have-burned-through-their-savings-1862843"

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1749633949062906083

    Terrifying stats. And we're a poorer country than the USA by far, how are we doing?
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,256

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    This election is going to play very differently regionally. I expect the Tories to be all but wiped out in London, metropolitan areas and to have a shocker in the South West and Wales. Conversely, I think their vote will be stickier than expected in the midlands and in some northern county/small towns.

    I can't speak for the Midlands. For northern England they are going to get absolutely destroyed. Whilst there will remain pockets of shire Tories, all of the places where blue collar Boris Brexit Toryism exploded in 2019 will be lost. All. Maybe keep a random couple if they are lucky and the vote splits right to allow their collapse to still leave them on top.

    Why? Because, to get all northern again for a minute, they've done fuck all round here. Too. many morons unexpectedly elected, fed the spin lines by head office which they parrot about all the things they are delivering. Whilst delivering nothing. Voters are used to nothing, but they're not used to being lied to about it.

    Worse still is the parochial bigotry that was always close to the surface in many towns now whipped to a frenzy. They voted Brexit and then Boris to get the foreigners out. Gone. Its their fault we can't see a doctor, why the schools are crap, why there's no jobs and no money. And even in 2019 the lure of the further right was strong - the Brexit Party saved Labour in a stack of seats. I expect the number of FUKkers to be even higher this time, and vs 2019 they will mostly be transfers from Tory 2019 totals.

    It is going to be a political bloodbath. And well deserved - will be fun to see what Lord Ben I'll Sue Houchen will do with his local support all gone and the wolves closing in on the scent of malfeasance...
    Round here a comment I’ve heard often is where have all these coloured people come from.

    And it’s not usually as a racist comment we’ve always had a few people of Asian / African descent but there are noticeably more than used to be the case

    Granted a lot of the people complaining won’t actually vote but it does show how many people think Bozo and co have utterly failed to deliver what they promised
    It's a lot worse than "not delivering", they have done the opposite of delivering. We have had 1.3 million migrants in two years, which is: simply off the dial, unprecedented in our history, changing the country visibly and briskly, and is a larger rate per capita than any annual immigration into the "land of immigrants" - the USA

    We are importing more people than America in the era of Ellis Island. Take a minute and grasp that

    It is screamingly insane, it is a kind of Ponzi scheme, and all of this is happening as everyone admits the NHS can't cope, our sewage system can't cope, our infrastructure is fucked, and house-ownership is becoming a dream for anyone under 50

    The Tories are going to be obliterated, and deservedly, to the extent they may never recover

    However, Starmer will then have to tackle this issue. It cannot be ignored. What will he do?



    How much off that 1.3 million is Ukraine/Hong Kong and adjustments of student numbers after covid?
    I believe about 100-150,000 is Ukraine/HK

    Students dunno, but an awful lot of them have brought dependants (much more than usual), and a much higher propertion are now converting their student visas to work visas, so they stay


    Now it's great that people want to come here, it's good our unis are attractive, I am sure 98% of these people are fantastic brain surgeons to be, but the simple fact is the UK cannot cope with 700,000 net immigrants a year. Remember when Cameron vowed to get it down to tens of thousands? Now it is SEVEN HUNDRED THOUSAND

    To grasp this nettle will take courage. Does Starmer possess it? I doubt it, and it's not in Labour's nature to clamp down on migration
    It is perfectly possible to integrate 700K people in UK society a year.

    To do so will take investment in infrastructure, and in the effort to socially integrate them. Nothing is free, all the options require work to be done.
    What, in perpetuity? 700,000 a year for the next 30 years? That will add 20 million people to the population and transform entire cities and regions, in ethnicity, culture, religion, mores, laws, everything - coz those 20 million people won’t be from Ireland or Denmark

    This is absolute madness - and it really is the way you guarantee a far right party governing the country

    People like you are fucking dangerous
    It's worth pointing out, it took years and years and years and years and years just to integrate the Irish when there was mass immigration from Ireland in the 19th century. We still have separate Catholic schools. It's still the case that Irish surnames are disproportionately common among the poorest parts of white British society. Now the irish are foreign, but as foreigners go they're not very foreign.
    Integration is very very hard.
    Are you some kind of Nazi???

    Integrating 700,000 Africans, Asians, Muslims, Chinese, Indians, Bolivians, Peruvians every single year is fine. 1.3m every two years - good. 3 million every four years even better. Doddle. What’s your problem, DOCTOR GOEBBELS?? Don’t you like foreigners?

    All you have to do is look across Europe and see that the Hard and Far Right is now a minuscule and diminishing threat, even after large scale immigration, and everyone can tell that you are basically parroting Mein Kampf

    This is my objection to the 'progressive mindset'. 'Integration' is seen as a case of education and eliminating prejudice amongst the local population. Where this fails, then it can be compelled by law. However, this applies only to existing majority populations, not incomers. I have encountered this type of thinking amongst 'liberals' for 10 years and it is much in evidence on PB. The more extreme it gets, the more radical the eventual response will be. The rise of Trump, the AfD etc can be predicted almost like an algorhythm. If you think you can outlaw Trump and the AfD, then the response you eventually encounter gets more and more gruesome until you get an actual Hitler. In this way the left are responsible for the return of fascism, because it is all a product of their own fascism in ignoring legitimate opposition to their policies and suppressing ideas, speech and beliefs through law. In this context, it may not be such a bad idea to start working with the "far right" to address these problems, as they have been doing (for instance) in Finland for a decade.

    Indeed. This is why the Left is not just delusional, it is dangerous

    It is basically waving a THIS WAY sign to the next Hitler

    And they just don’t get it
    Around 2017 I switched from seeing the right as the most dangerous threat to civilisation, to the left. Not so much the political 'far left' but the left in terms of all its cultural power which encompasses most of mainstream politics and elite culture.

    When I think of the terrible politicians that have come to power, the likes of Trump, Orban, Erdoğan, Kaczyński, Milei, DeSantis… they’re not exactly centrists or social democrats, are they? I’m trying to think of an appropriate way of describing them all on the political spectrum…
    The cultural power of the left is quite difficult to encapsulate, it cannot easily be epitomised by one politician or leader. But it is very prevalent. For me it was a singer on tour in 2019 who stood on stage glorifying an act of terrorism and the audience cheering along. I had been programmed by education and culture to assume that 'the danger is from the right' because of the proximity to fascism, but actually I realised that it is the progressives that are almost always the bigger fascists, but they get a free pass. I am sure it will carry on going like this for the rest of my life.
    What singer was it and what act of terrorism? I've been to some dodgy gigs but I don't think I've ever seen one where people big up terrorists.
    Maybe this one? https://www.billboard.com/music/chart-beat/donald-trump-j6-prison-choir-justice-for-all-digital-song-sales-chart-1235289593/
  • Options
    Andy_JS said:

    Small but astonishing moment in this mornng's evidence at the PO Inquiry.

    The witness is another 'Investigator' and it emerged that when he submitted his cv for the job, he put forward his wife's qualifications as his own!

    The PO certainly found some pond life to carry out its dirty work.

    He claims it was a mistake. Interesting that, for a long time, he was the only PO investigator in Scotland.
    Easy mistake to make.

    I've often thought I went to Harvard.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,402

    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    This election is going to play very differently regionally. I expect the Tories to be all but wiped out in London, metropolitan areas and to have a shocker in the South West and Wales. Conversely, I think their vote will be stickier than expected in the midlands and in some northern county/small towns.

    I can't speak for the Midlands. For northern England they are going to get absolutely destroyed. Whilst there will remain pockets of shire Tories, all of the places where blue collar Boris Brexit Toryism exploded in 2019 will be lost. All. Maybe keep a random couple if they are lucky and the vote splits right to allow their collapse to still leave them on top.

    Why? Because, to get all northern again for a minute, they've done fuck all round here. Too. many morons unexpectedly elected, fed the spin lines by head office which they parrot about all the things they are delivering. Whilst delivering nothing. Voters are used to nothing, but they're not used to being lied to about it.

    Worse still is the parochial bigotry that was always close to the surface in many towns now whipped to a frenzy. They voted Brexit and then Boris to get the foreigners out. Gone. Its their fault we can't see a doctor, why the schools are crap, why there's no jobs and no money. And even in 2019 the lure of the further right was strong - the Brexit Party saved Labour in a stack of seats. I expect the number of FUKkers to be even higher this time, and vs 2019 they will mostly be transfers from Tory 2019 totals.

    It is going to be a political bloodbath. And well deserved - will be fun to see what Lord Ben I'll Sue Houchen will do with his local support all gone and the wolves closing in on the scent of malfeasance...
    Round here a comment I’ve heard often is where have all these coloured people come from.

    And it’s not usually as a racist comment we’ve always had a few people of Asian / African descent but there are noticeably more than used to be the case

    Granted a lot of the people complaining won’t actually vote but it does show how many people think Bozo and co have utterly failed to deliver what they promised
    It's a lot worse than "not delivering", they have done the opposite of delivering. We have had 1.3 million migrants in two years, which is: simply off the dial, unprecedented in our history, changing the country visibly and briskly, and is a larger rate per capita than any annual immigration into the "land of immigrants" - the USA

    We are importing more people than America in the era of Ellis Island. Take a minute and grasp that

    It is screamingly insane, it is a kind of Ponzi scheme, and all of this is happening as everyone admits the NHS can't cope, our sewage system can't cope, our infrastructure is fucked, and house-ownership is becoming a dream for anyone under 50

    The Tories are going to be obliterated, and deservedly, to the extent they may never recover

    However, Starmer will then have to tackle this issue. It cannot be ignored. What will he do?



    How much off that 1.3 million is Ukraine/Hong Kong and adjustments of student numbers after covid?
    I believe about 100-150,000 is Ukraine/HK

    Students dunno, but an awful lot of them have brought dependants (much more than usual), and a much higher propertion are now converting their student visas to work visas, so they stay


    Now it's great that people want to come here, it's good our unis are attractive, I am sure 98% of these people are fantastic brain surgeons to be, but the simple fact is the UK cannot cope with 700,000 net immigrants a year. Remember when Cameron vowed to get it down to tens of thousands? Now it is SEVEN HUNDRED THOUSAND

    To grasp this nettle will take courage. Does Starmer possess it? I doubt it, and it's not in Labour's nature to clamp down on migration
    It is perfectly possible to integrate 700K people in UK society a year.

    To do so will take investment in infrastructure, and in the effort to socially integrate them. Nothing is free, all the options require work to be done.
    What, in perpetuity? 700,000 a year for the next 30 years? That will add 20 million people to the population and transform entire cities and regions, in ethnicity, culture, religion, mores, laws, everything - coz those 20 million people won’t be from Ireland or Denmark

    This is absolute madness - and it really is the way you guarantee a far right party governing the country

    People like you are fucking dangerous
    It's worth pointing out, it took years and years and years and years and years just to integrate the Irish when there was mass immigration from Ireland in the 19th century. We still have separate Catholic schools. It's still the case that Irish surnames are disproportionately common among the poorest parts of white British society. Now the irish are foreign, but as foreigners go they're not very foreign.
    Integration is very very hard.
    Are you some kind of Nazi???

    Integrating 700,000 Africans, Asians, Muslims, Chinese, Indians, Bolivians, Peruvians every single year is fine. 1.3m every two years - good. 3 million every four years even better. Doddle. What’s your problem, DOCTOR GOEBBELS?? Don’t you like foreigners?

    All you have to do is look across Europe and see that the Hard and Far Right is now a minuscule and diminishing threat, even after large scale immigration, and everyone can tell that you are basically parroting Mein Kampf

    This is my objection to the 'progressive mindset'. 'Integration' is seen as a case of education and eliminating prejudice amongst the local population. Where this fails, then it can be compelled by law. However, this applies only to existing majority populations, not incomers. I have encountered this type of thinking amongst 'liberals' for 10 years and it is much in evidence on PB. The more extreme it gets, the more radical the eventual response will be. The rise of Trump, the AfD etc can be predicted almost like an algorhythm. If you think you can outlaw Trump and the AfD, then the response you eventually encounter gets more and more gruesome until you get an actual Hitler. In this way the left are responsible for the return of fascism, because it is all a product of their own fascism in ignoring legitimate opposition to their policies and suppressing ideas, speech and beliefs through law. In this context, it may not be such a bad idea to start working with the "far right" to address these problems, as they have been doing (for instance) in Finland for a decade.

    Indeed. This is why the Left is not just delusional, it is dangerous

    It is basically waving a THIS WAY sign to the next Hitler

    And they just don’t get it
    A sensible Left would propose more foreign aid, investment, conflict resolution, and bilateral agreements, including help at source, to "stop the boats".

    Instead, they say "safe and legal routes" which I don't think they realise is heard as: create an open door for anyone who wants it.
    These are the arguments made by the "loony left" - whereas the idea of increasing foreign aid is anathema because people always say "but we should help our own first". Which goes back to my point - if you meet the material needs of people, there is no frustration that will build up to be misattributed to "the other". The neoliberal capitalist consensus cannot do that - more profit must be skimmed and therefore the average person will lose out. The right do not want to do that - they like having an "other" to have grievances against to protect the fact that capitalism is the reason for this. The left want to deal with this issue - and get called communists for proposing policy solutions or slight social democratic reform with wealth redistribution and investment in civic infrastructure.
    I haven't heard the left make a cogent argument on this.

    In fact, phrases like "neoliberal capitalist consensus" sort of show both why you don't think it's worth bothering to try and how you'd get it badly wrong if you did.
    The Matt Goodwin right and Aaron Bastani left both hate the same thing: centrist liberals. They just have different names for them. The left bang in about the neoliberal capitalist consensus or “late capitalism”, the right talk about the woke liberal establishment or “new elites”. Same people: the fabled blob.
    Whatever his flaws Matt Goodwin is a liberal. He believes in classical liberal freedoms of expression and thought, in the multiplicity of sources of truth, in democracy, in an open society vigilant to protect this from its enemies, in free inquiry being the best way of eliciting truths and so on. He is a classic John Stuart Mill liberal, in company with almost everyone of any significance in mainstream UK political life and thought. He is one of liberalism's better defenders.

    I often, of course, disagree with him. But not about being a liberal.
    Rob Ford has accused Matt Goodwin of repeatedly lying. When you say “multiplicity of sources of truth”, is this like Kellyanne Conway talking about “alternative facts”?
    I've not seen Goodwin lie. But he has become somewhat tedious, in that he will frame almost any evidence as supportive of his existing views.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,500
    edited January 23
    rcs1000 said:

    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    This election is going to play very differently regionally. I expect the Tories to be all but wiped out in London, metropolitan areas and to have a shocker in the South West and Wales. Conversely, I think their vote will be stickier than expected in the midlands and in some northern county/small towns.

    I can't speak for the Midlands. For northern England they are going to get absolutely destroyed. Whilst there will remain pockets of shire Tories, all of the places where blue collar Boris Brexit Toryism exploded in 2019 will be lost. All. Maybe keep a random couple if they are lucky and the vote splits right to allow their collapse to still leave them on top.

    Why? Because, to get all northern again for a minute, they've done fuck all round here. Too. many morons unexpectedly elected, fed the spin lines by head office which they parrot about all the things they are delivering. Whilst delivering nothing. Voters are used to nothing, but they're not used to being lied to about it.

    Worse still is the parochial bigotry that was always close to the surface in many towns now whipped to a frenzy. They voted Brexit and then Boris to get the foreigners out. Gone. Its their fault we can't see a doctor, why the schools are crap, why there's no jobs and no money. And even in 2019 the lure of the further right was strong - the Brexit Party saved Labour in a stack of seats. I expect the number of FUKkers to be even higher this time, and vs 2019 they will mostly be transfers from Tory 2019 totals.

    It is going to be a political bloodbath. And well deserved - will be fun to see what Lord Ben I'll Sue Houchen will do with his local support all gone and the wolves closing in on the scent of malfeasance...
    Round here a comment I’ve heard often is where have all these coloured people come from.

    And it’s not usually as a racist comment we’ve always had a few people of Asian / African descent but there are noticeably more than used to be the case

    Granted a lot of the people complaining won’t actually vote but it does show how many people think Bozo and co have utterly failed to deliver what they promised
    It's a lot worse than "not delivering", they have done the opposite of delivering. We have had 1.3 million migrants in two years, which is: simply off the dial, unprecedented in our history, changing the country visibly and briskly, and is a larger rate per capita than any annual immigration into the "land of immigrants" - the USA

    We are importing more people than America in the era of Ellis Island. Take a minute and grasp that

    It is screamingly insane, it is a kind of Ponzi scheme, and all of this is happening as everyone admits the NHS can't cope, our sewage system can't cope, our infrastructure is fucked, and house-ownership is becoming a dream for anyone under 50

    The Tories are going to be obliterated, and deservedly, to the extent they may never recover

    However, Starmer will then have to tackle this issue. It cannot be ignored. What will he do?



    How much off that 1.3 million is Ukraine/Hong Kong and adjustments of student numbers after covid?
    I believe about 100-150,000 is Ukraine/HK

    Students dunno, but an awful lot of them have brought dependants (much more than usual), and a much higher propertion are now converting their student visas to work visas, so they stay


    Now it's great that people want to come here, it's good our unis are attractive, I am sure 98% of these people are fantastic brain surgeons to be, but the simple fact is the UK cannot cope with 700,000 net immigrants a year. Remember when Cameron vowed to get it down to tens of thousands? Now it is SEVEN HUNDRED THOUSAND

    To grasp this nettle will take courage. Does Starmer possess it? I doubt it, and it's not in Labour's nature to clamp down on migration
    It is perfectly possible to integrate 700K people in UK society a year.

    To do so will take investment in infrastructure, and in the effort to socially integrate them. Nothing is free, all the options require work to be done.
    What, in perpetuity? 700,000 a year for the next 30 years? That will add 20 million people to the population and transform entire cities and regions, in ethnicity, culture, religion, mores, laws, everything - coz those 20 million people won’t be from Ireland or Denmark

    This is absolute madness - and it really is the way you guarantee a far right party governing the country

    People like you are fucking dangerous
    It's worth pointing out, it took years and years and years and years and years just to integrate the Irish when there was mass immigration from Ireland in the 19th century. We still have separate Catholic schools. It's still the case that Irish surnames are disproportionately common among the poorest parts of white British society. Now the irish are foreign, but as foreigners go they're not very foreign.
    Integration is very very hard.
    Are you some kind of Nazi???

    Integrating 700,000 Africans, Asians, Muslims, Chinese, Indians, Bolivians, Peruvians every single year is fine. 1.3m every two years - good. 3 million every four years even better. Doddle. What’s your problem, DOCTOR GOEBBELS?? Don’t you like foreigners?

    All you have to do is look across Europe and see that the Hard and Far Right is now a minuscule and diminishing threat, even after large scale immigration, and everyone can tell that you are basically parroting Mein Kampf

    This is my objection to the 'progressive mindset'. 'Integration' is seen as a case of education and eliminating prejudice amongst the local population. Where this fails, then it can be compelled by law. However, this applies only to existing majority populations, not incomers. I have encountered this type of thinking amongst 'liberals' for 10 years and it is much in evidence on PB. The more extreme it gets, the more radical the eventual response will be. The rise of Trump, the AfD etc can be predicted almost like an algorhythm. If you think you can outlaw Trump and the AfD, then the response you eventually encounter gets more and more gruesome until you get an actual Hitler. In this way the left are responsible for the return of fascism, because it is all a product of their own fascism in ignoring legitimate opposition to their policies and suppressing ideas, speech and beliefs through law. In this context, it may not be such a bad idea to start working with the "far right" to address these problems, as they have been doing (for instance) in Finland for a decade.

    Indeed. This is why the Left is not just delusional, it is dangerous

    It is basically waving a THIS WAY sign to the next Hitler

    And they just don’t get it
    A sensible Left would propose more foreign aid, investment, conflict resolution, and bilateral agreements, including help at source, to "stop the boats".

    Instead, they say "safe and legal routes" which I don't think they realise is heard as: create an open door for anyone who wants it.
    These are the arguments made by the "loony left" - whereas the idea of increasing foreign aid is anathema because people always say "but we should help our own first". Which goes back to my point - if you meet the material needs of people, there is no frustration that will build up to be misattributed to "the other". The neoliberal capitalist consensus cannot do that - more profit must be skimmed and therefore the average person will lose out. The right do not want to do that - they like having an "other" to have grievances against to protect the fact that capitalism is the reason for this. The left want to deal with this issue - and get called communists for proposing policy solutions or slight social democratic reform with wealth redistribution and investment in civic infrastructure.
    I haven't heard the left make a cogent argument on this.

    In fact, phrases like "neoliberal capitalist consensus" sort of show both why you don't think it's worth bothering to try and how you'd get it badly wrong if you did.
    The Matt Goodwin right and Aaron Bastani left both hate the same thing: centrist liberals. They just have different names for them. The left bang in about the neoliberal capitalist consensus or “late capitalism”, the right talk about the woke liberal establishment or “new elites”. Same people: the fabled blob.
    Whatever his flaws Matt Goodwin is a liberal. He believes in classical liberal freedoms of expression and thought, in the multiplicity of sources of truth, in democracy, in an open society vigilant to protect this from its enemies, in free inquiry being the best way of eliciting truths and so on. He is a classic John Stuart Mill liberal, in company with almost everyone of any significance in mainstream UK political life and thought. He is one of liberalism's better defenders.

    I often, of course, disagree with him. But not about being a liberal.
    Rob Ford has accused Matt Goodwin of repeatedly lying. When you say “multiplicity of sources of truth”, is this like Kellyanne Conway talking about “alternative facts”?
    I've not seen Goodwin lie. But he has become somewhat tedious, in that he will frame almost any evidence as supportive of his existing views.
    He may have had something interesting to say once, but if he did it now seems overtaken by having enjoyed his moment of fame for saying certain things, and then just repeating it over and over for applause.

    Not an uncommon end for anyone who ends up essentially becoming a pundit on current affairs.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,037
    edited January 23
    Andy_JS said:

    "@FrankLuntz

    Q: How much money do you have in your personal savings accounts?

    • 22% - No savings
    • 20% - Less than $1,000
    • 15% - $1,000 to $5,000
    • 10% - $5,000 to $10,000
    • 13% - $10,000 to $20,000
    • 20% - More than $20,000

    https://newsweek.com/americans-have-burned-through-their-savings-1862843"

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1749633949062906083

    UK personal finance consensus would be once you have 20k get a buy to let or a bigger house. Obviously it is bad advice but how most people think.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,037

    Andy_JS said:

    Small but astonishing moment in this mornng's evidence at the PO Inquiry.

    The witness is another 'Investigator' and it emerged that when he submitted his cv for the job, he put forward his wife's qualifications as his own!

    The PO certainly found some pond life to carry out its dirty work.

    He claims it was a mistake. Interesting that, for a long time, he was the only PO investigator in Scotland.
    Easy mistake to make.

    I've often thought I went to Harvard.
    Thats nothing I've actually been to Cambridge, Oxford and Harvard. Not studied at any of them mind.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,102
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    On a lighter note the Oscar nominations are out . The pile of self-indulgent crap Oppenheimer appears .

    Having fallen for all the hype I saw this . Far too long , tedious with severely annoying sound effects, disjointed and lacking in any real drama.

    I so wanted to like the film but would rather have a tooth extraction than sit through this overhyped film again .

    It was overlong and with a non-linear narrative which served no clear purpose other than to make it more artsy. It was...ok.

    I feel like Nolan gets way too much leeway because his films look nice.

    I thought it was terrific. Best film I have seen at the cinema for several years. Started well and got better and better. The last hour was great.

    Not so sure that it would be as gripping on the TV so I haven't paid to watch it again on Sky but I will eventually. Really don't understand what some people have against it.
    I have nothing against it, it just didn't grab me. Acting was good, production was excellent, it held my attention. But I'll probably never feel the urge to ever watch it again. I find Nolan to be technically excellent most of the time but not very engaging (Tenet aside, which was just crap).

    Whereas something like Poor Things is a lesser movie (and goddamn that director has the worst soundtracks/scores I've ever heard in my life), and a bit try hard in its quirkiness, but provides more to talk about.
    Perhaps because I know the story - it missed out many things to add in the surreal montage stuff.

    For example, Oppenheimer first got Strauss’s suspicions going, by aggressively opposing a program of planes air sampling to find any Soviet tests. Not only was Oppenheimer wrong on the science, but the sampling revealed the first Soviet test, before the Soviets went public.

    The sampling also indicated something else - the Soviet bomb was a copy of the American plutonium bomb. Which it was - from espionage.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,544
    edited January 23
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "@FrankLuntz

    Q: How much money do you have in your personal savings accounts?

    • 22% - No savings
    • 20% - Less than $1,000
    • 15% - $1,000 to $5,000
    • 10% - $5,000 to $10,000
    • 13% - $10,000 to $20,000
    • 20% - More than $20,000

    https://newsweek.com/americans-have-burned-through-their-savings-1862843"

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1749633949062906083

    Terrifying stats. And we're a poorer country than the USA by far, how are we doing?
    I expect poor people in this country aren't in quite as bad a situation as they are in the USA. Although that isn't anything to celebrate.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,868

    Andy_JS said:

    "@FrankLuntz

    Q: How much money do you have in your personal savings accounts?

    • 22% - No savings
    • 20% - Less than $1,000
    • 15% - $1,000 to $5,000
    • 10% - $5,000 to $10,000
    • 13% - $10,000 to $20,000
    • 20% - More than $20,000

    https://newsweek.com/americans-have-burned-through-their-savings-1862843"

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1749633949062906083

    UK personal finance consensus would be once you have 20k get a buy to let or a bigger house. Obviously it is bad advice but how most people think.
    There's probably worse advice out there, but it does explain one reason why the UK economy is in the hole it's in.
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,455
    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    I’m anticipating DuraAce turning up shortly to berate PB “turning into some fucking Times wine club wankers’ chatroom”.

    Why should he? He was an Officer RN and therefore self-evidently possesses Officer-Like Qualities, including Wardroom Grade Wine Appreciation.
    He can tell the difference between “red” and “white”?
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,455

    Germany’s top court on Tuesday stripped a neo-Nazi party of the right to public financing and the tax advantages normally extended to political organizations, a decision that could provide a blueprint for government efforts to head off a resurgence of the far right.

    Although the party, Die Heimat, which means the Homeland, was already too small to receive public funding, the case was closely watched because it could have implications for countering the Alternative for Germany, or AfD, a far more popular far-right party.

    NY Times

    There’s a lot of German discussion about tackling AFD by means other than beating it at the polls. You’d think they, of all nations, would realise that’s silly and ultimately self-defeating.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,544
    The MP for York Rachel Maskell slightly embarrassed herself today by asking whether Post Office could be brought under public ownership.

    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-rishi-sunak-general-election-keir-starmer-12593360
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,455

    Andy_JS said:

    "@FrankLuntz

    Q: How much money do you have in your personal savings accounts?

    • 22% - No savings
    • 20% - Less than $1,000
    • 15% - $1,000 to $5,000
    • 10% - $5,000 to $10,000
    • 13% - $10,000 to $20,000
    • 20% - More than $20,000

    https://newsweek.com/americans-have-burned-through-their-savings-1862843"

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1749633949062906083

    UK personal finance consensus would be once you have 20k get a buy to let or a bigger house. Obviously it is bad advice but how most people think.
    I don’t accrue savings. I spend most of my excess cash on wine, women and song. The rest I squander.

    That’s the British way.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,037
    edited January 23
    Andy_JS said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "@FrankLuntz

    Q: How much money do you have in your personal savings accounts?

    • 22% - No savings
    • 20% - Less than $1,000
    • 15% - $1,000 to $5,000
    • 10% - $5,000 to $10,000
    • 13% - $10,000 to $20,000
    • 20% - More than $20,000

    https://newsweek.com/americans-have-burned-through-their-savings-1862843"

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1749633949062906083

    Terrifying stats. And we're a poorer country than the USA by far, how are we doing?
    I expect poor people in this country aren't in quite as bad a situation as they are in the USA. Although that isn't anything to celebrate.
    I think its one of the fundamental divides between our politics and societies and is very much worth celebrating. Better healthcare in particular as well as social security makes this a better place to live imo. They probably don't generally have savings cash either though.
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,872
    If anyone wants a good laugh, this prediction of next year in Brexit Britain, from Daniel Hannan in 2016 has been doing the rounds on Twitter/X/Muskovision

    https://reaction.life/britain-looks-like-brexit/
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,256
    On Goodwin, this clip is an example of something Goodwin claims: https://x.com/gbnews/status/1732686385717641443 The tweet says:

    “Did you know that more than 50% of social housing is occupied by people who aren't British? It is not acceptable for any modern society to be relegating its own citizens in this way, from having access to basic services.”

    In the clip, he’s specifically talking about London. However, the figure is not true, for London or anywhere. He conflates being born in Britain with being British, so someone like Boris Johnson is not British under Godwin’s definition. The lie is apparent by the way he talks about “its own citizens”: the vast majority of people in social housing are citizens, but UK law makes no distinction between a citizen born in the UK and one not born in the UK, between a citizen who was a citizen from birth or who acquired citizenship last week. Goodwin takes a statistic about people born overseas and conflates it with “its own citizens”.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Andy_JS said:

    The MP for York Rachel Maskell slightly embarrassed herself today by asking whether Post Office could be brought under public ownership.

    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-rishi-sunak-general-election-keir-starmer-12593360

    Last week Stella Creasy told Suella Braverman that NATO was a foreign court. Just shows that opinion poll respondents have no idea of the calibre of Labour MP’s, it’s just ‘Not Tory’ that wins it
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,455
    Andy_JS said:

    The MP for York Rachel Maskell slightly embarrassed herself today by asking whether Post Office could be brought under public ownership.

    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-rishi-sunak-general-election-keir-starmer-12593360

    To be fair, I do wonder whether it needs to have the company structure collapsed for a while at least. It would remove the need to worry about accounting treatments so much whilst it processes all the compensation, and we can have a proper debate about the role of post office’s in communities and whether they are really public service centres to be allocated by need, rather than by whether they can be profit centres.

    But 30 seconds will Google would have shown her HMG is the only shareholder and she would t have looked such a prat.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,193
    CatMan said:

    If anyone wants a good laugh, this prediction of next year in Brexit Britain, from Daniel Hannan in 2016 has been doing the rounds on Twitter/X/Muskovision

    https://reaction.life/britain-looks-like-brexit/

    Well we're not laughing now.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,037
    CatMan said:

    If anyone wants a good laugh, this prediction of next year in Brexit Britain, from Daniel Hannan in 2016 has been doing the rounds on Twitter/X/Muskovision

    https://reaction.life/britain-looks-like-brexit/

    "The number of student visas granted each year is decided by MPs who, now that they no longer need to worry about unlimited EU migration, can afford to take a long-term view. Parliament sets the number of work permits, the number of refugee places and the terms of family reunification. A points-based immigration system invites the world’s top talent; and the consequent sense of having had to win a place competitively means that new settlers arrive with commensurate pride and patriotism."

    Some of that is actually spot on apart from the silly schamltzy bit at the end. However parliament (actually govt ignoring parliament generally) can't stick to its long term view of growing the number of student visas because it can't choose between the cash it brings in or the immigration numbers going up. The points based system reflects not world class talent but job vacancies which are driven by our demographics not MPs or voter desires.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,223
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    On a lighter note the Oscar nominations are out . The pile of self-indulgent crap Oppenheimer appears .

    Having fallen for all the hype I saw this . Far too long , tedious with severely annoying sound effects, disjointed and lacking in any real drama.

    I so wanted to like the film but would rather have a tooth extraction than sit through this overhyped film again .

    It was overlong and with a non-linear narrative which served no clear purpose other than to make it more artsy. It was...ok.

    I feel like Nolan gets way too much leeway because his films look nice.

    I thought it was terrific. Best film I have seen at the cinema for several years. Started well and got better and better. The last hour was great.

    Not so sure that it would be as gripping on the TV so I haven't paid to watch it again on Sky but I will eventually. Really don't understand what some people have against it.
    I have nothing against it, it just didn't grab me. Acting was good, production was excellent, it held my attention. But I'll probably never feel the urge to ever watch it again. I find Nolan to be technically excellent most of the time but not very engaging (Tenet aside, which was just crap).

    Whereas something like Poor Things is a lesser movie (and goddamn that director has the worst soundtracks/scores I've ever heard in my life), and a bit try hard in its quirkiness, but provides more to talk about.
    I didn't bother with Oppenheimer as I knew the plot, but have never really liked a Nolan movie. They always seem rather sterile somehow.

  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,339
    edited January 23
    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    viewcode said:

    Barnesian said:

    Ms. Haley told reporters on Tuesday that she planned to continue her campaign regardless of the outcome in New Hampshire, and her campaign manager indicated as much in a memo shared with The New York Times.

    NY Times blog

    PredictIt gives her a 7% chance in NH


    It gives Trump and Biden an equal chance of the Presidency


    https://www.predictit.org/markets/3/President

    EDIT: There is an interesting divergence between PredictIt and Betfair.
    Note that only US citizens can sign up to PredictIt.

    Predictit and Betfair Exchange and Betfair Sportsbook are different things
    • Predictit is a prediction market: one player bets on something with toy money, another bets against, Predictit keeps track
    • Betfair Exchange is an exchange market: one player bets on something with real money, another bets against with real money, BE keeps track and takes a cut
    • Betfair Sportsbook is a bookmaker: it bet against something, you bet on it
    So it's toy money versus real money?
    I wonder how good PredictIt is at predicting?
    It is embroiled in a legal battle at the moment and not opening any new markets.
    PreditIt looks to be real money. You buy "shares" for $ that you can invest in markets and withdraw any winnings (less 5%) in $. So I think there is an incentive to look for real value like Betfair.
    Arse, silly me. :( Did I get it mixed up with the other one (IEM?) I used to know US Political Betting law (TLDR: not legal) but they fiddled with the law a few years back and now my response is um.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,477

    On Goodwin, this clip is an example of something Goodwin claims: https://x.com/gbnews/status/1732686385717641443 The tweet says:

    “Did you know that more than 50% of social housing is occupied by people who aren't British? It is not acceptable for any modern society to be relegating its own citizens in this way, from having access to basic services.”

    In the clip, he’s specifically talking about London. However, the figure is not true, for London or anywhere. He conflates being born in Britain with being British, so someone like Boris Johnson is not British under Godwin’s definition. The lie is apparent by the way he talks about “its own citizens”: the vast majority of people in social housing are citizens, but UK law makes no distinction between a citizen born in the UK and one not born in the UK, between a citizen who was a citizen from birth or who acquired citizenship last week. Goodwin takes a statistic about people born overseas and conflates it with “its own citizens”.

    Critics of Goodwin don’t do themselves any favours by pretending that someone who is British but born abroad is the same as a naturalised citizen who immigrated to the UK.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,500
    biggles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "@FrankLuntz

    Q: How much money do you have in your personal savings accounts?

    • 22% - No savings
    • 20% - Less than $1,000
    • 15% - $1,000 to $5,000
    • 10% - $5,000 to $10,000
    • 13% - $10,000 to $20,000
    • 20% - More than $20,000

    https://newsweek.com/americans-have-burned-through-their-savings-1862843"

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1749633949062906083

    UK personal finance consensus would be once you have 20k get a buy to let or a bigger house. Obviously it is bad advice but how most people think.
    I don’t accrue savings. I spend most of my excess cash on wine, women and song. The rest I squander.

    That’s the British way.
    When I access my bank online it has a graphic about the savings I have compared to the average deposit of a first time buyer in my area.

    It terrifies me because I have quite a bit more savings compared to many people I know, so lord only knows how they will manage to scrape a deposit.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,668
    Andy_JS said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "@FrankLuntz

    Q: How much money do you have in your personal savings accounts?

    • 22% - No savings
    • 20% - Less than $1,000
    • 15% - $1,000 to $5,000
    • 10% - $5,000 to $10,000
    • 13% - $10,000 to $20,000
    • 20% - More than $20,000

    https://newsweek.com/americans-have-burned-through-their-savings-1862843"

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1749633949062906083

    Terrifying stats. And we're a poorer country than the USA by far, how are we doing?
    I expect poor people in this country aren't in quite as bad a situation as they are in the USA. Although that isn't anything to celebrate.
    We save quite a lot of money but then we have to give it all to the taxman and have to start again. Savings from taxed income is incredibly hard in this country.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,339
    nico679 said:

    On a lighter note the Oscar nominations are out . The pile of self-indulgent crap Oppenheimer appears .

    Having fallen for all the hype I saw this . Far too long , tedious with severely annoying sound effects, disjointed and lacking in any real drama.

    I so wanted to like the film but would rather have a tooth extraction than sit through this overhyped film again .

    What did you think of Tenet? :)
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,223

    On Goodwin, this clip is an example of something Goodwin claims: https://x.com/gbnews/status/1732686385717641443 The tweet says:

    “Did you know that more than 50% of social housing is occupied by people who aren't British? It is not acceptable for any modern society to be relegating its own citizens in this way, from having access to basic services.”

    In the clip, he’s specifically talking about London. However, the figure is not true, for London or anywhere. He conflates being born in Britain with being British, so someone like Boris Johnson is not British under Godwin’s definition. The lie is apparent by the way he talks about “its own citizens”: the vast majority of people in social housing are citizens, but UK law makes no distinction between a citizen born in the UK and one not born in the UK, between a citizen who was a citizen from birth or who acquired citizenship last week. Goodwin takes a statistic about people born overseas and conflates it with “its own citizens”.

    Critics of Goodwin don’t do themselves any favours by pretending that someone who is British but born abroad is the same as a naturalised citizen who immigrated to the UK.
    Do you not think that naturalised Britons deserve equal treatment under the law?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,339
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    On a lighter note the Oscar nominations are out . The pile of self-indulgent crap Oppenheimer appears .

    Having fallen for all the hype I saw this . Far too long , tedious with severely annoying sound effects, disjointed and lacking in any real drama.

    I so wanted to like the film but would rather have a tooth extraction than sit through this overhyped film again .

    It was overlong and with a non-linear narrative which served no clear purpose other than to make it more artsy. It was...ok.

    I feel like Nolan gets way too much leeway because his films look nice.

    I thought it was terrific. Best film I have seen at the cinema for several years. Started well and got better and better. The last hour was great.

    Not so sure that it would be as gripping on the TV so I haven't paid to watch it again on Sky but I will eventually. Really don't understand what some people have against it.
    I have nothing against it, it just didn't grab me. Acting was good, production was excellent, it held my attention. But I'll probably never feel the urge to ever watch it again. I find Nolan to be technically excellent most of the time but not very engaging (Tenet aside, which was just crap).

    Whereas something like Poor Things is a lesser movie (and goddamn that director has the worst soundtracks/scores I've ever heard in my life), and a bit try hard in its quirkiness, but provides more to talk about.
    I didn't bother with Oppenheimer as I knew the plot, but have never really liked a Nolan movie. They always seem rather sterile somehow.

    Which is, oddly enough, one of the reasons why I like them (Kubrick had the same problem)
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,223
    dixiedean said:

    CatMan said:

    If anyone wants a good laugh, this prediction of next year in Brexit Britain, from Daniel Hannan in 2016 has been doing the rounds on Twitter/X/Muskovision

    https://reaction.life/britain-looks-like-brexit/

    Well we're not laughing now.
    This is quite good too...

    https://twitter.com/edwinhayward/status/1749034652063457408?t=PZIqfm0TtoyzvUCXSLdW1w&s=19

  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,037
    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "@FrankLuntz

    Q: How much money do you have in your personal savings accounts?

    • 22% - No savings
    • 20% - Less than $1,000
    • 15% - $1,000 to $5,000
    • 10% - $5,000 to $10,000
    • 13% - $10,000 to $20,000
    • 20% - More than $20,000

    https://newsweek.com/americans-have-burned-through-their-savings-1862843"

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1749633949062906083

    Terrifying stats. And we're a poorer country than the USA by far, how are we doing?
    I expect poor people in this country aren't in quite as bad a situation as they are in the USA. Although that isn't anything to celebrate.
    We save quite a lot of money but then we have to give it all to the taxman and have to start again. Savings from taxed income is incredibly hard in this country.
    There are pensions, ISAs, LISAs, VCTs, EIS, SEIS, Premium Bonds for a start all offering tax relief. If anyones filled up all that they probably can afford a bit more tax.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,984
    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The MP for York Rachel Maskell slightly embarrassed herself today by asking whether Post Office could be brought under public ownership.

    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-rishi-sunak-general-election-keir-starmer-12593360

    Last week Stella Creasy told Suella Braverman that NATO was a foreign court. Just shows that opinion poll respondents have no idea of the calibre of Labour MP’s, it’s just ‘Not Tory’ that wins it
    What's wrong with that? After 14 years of Conservative-led Government and their record, why pick on a few Labour MPs? It's like Huw Merriman moaning that the News Quiz was anti-Conservative.

    The truth is the only thing more boring than programmes attacking the Government are programmes supporting the Government.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,668
    Andy_JS said:

    The MP for York Rachel Maskell slightly embarrassed herself today by asking whether Post Office could be brought under public ownership.

    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-rishi-sunak-general-election-keir-starmer-12593360

    Is it possible that she might reflect that public ownership doesn't actually solve problems after all or is that too much of an intellectual leap for her?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,339
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Barnesian said:

    Ms. Haley told reporters on Tuesday that she planned to continue her campaign regardless of the outcome in New Hampshire, and her campaign manager indicated as much in a memo shared with The New York Times.

    NY Times blog

    PredictIt gives her a 7% chance in NH


    It gives Trump and Biden an equal chance of the Presidency


    https://www.predictit.org/markets/3/President

    EDIT: There is an interesting divergence between PredictIt and Betfair.
    Note that only US citizens can sign up to PredictIt.

    Predictit and Betfair Exchange and Betfair Sportsbook are different things
    • Predictit is a prediction market: one player bets on something with toy money, another bets against, Predictit keeps track
    • Betfair Exchange is an exchange market: one player bets on something with real money, another bets against with real money, BE keeps track and takes a cut
    • Betfair Sportsbook is a bookmaker: it bet against something, you bet on it
    Errr

    PredicIt uses real money
    See my embarrassed reply to another poster who pointed that out.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,102
    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The MP for York Rachel Maskell slightly embarrassed herself today by asking whether Post Office could be brought under public ownership.

    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-rishi-sunak-general-election-keir-starmer-12593360

    Is it possible that she might reflect that public ownership doesn't actually solve problems after all or is that too much of an intellectual leap for her?
    For some reason I am reminded of a chap I knew, years ago, who had a thing about “destroying the BUPA shareholders, to save the NHS”
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    stodge said:

    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The MP for York Rachel Maskell slightly embarrassed herself today by asking whether Post Office could be brought under public ownership.

    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-rishi-sunak-general-election-keir-starmer-12593360

    Last week Stella Creasy told Suella Braverman that NATO was a foreign court. Just shows that opinion poll respondents have no idea of the calibre of Labour MP’s, it’s just ‘Not Tory’ that wins it
    What's wrong with that? After 14 years of Conservative-led Government and their record, why pick on a few Labour MPs? It's like Huw Merriman moaning that the News Quiz was anti-Conservative.

    The truth is the only thing more boring than programmes attacking the Government are programmes supporting the Government.
    Sorry, what’s the criticism here?
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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,290

    On Goodwin, this clip is an example of something Goodwin claims: https://x.com/gbnews/status/1732686385717641443 The tweet says:

    “Did you know that more than 50% of social housing is occupied by people who aren't British? It is not acceptable for any modern society to be relegating its own citizens in this way, from having access to basic services.”

    In the clip, he’s specifically talking about London. However, the figure is not true, for London or anywhere. He conflates being born in Britain with being British, so someone like Boris Johnson is not British under Godwin’s definition. The lie is apparent by the way he talks about “its own citizens”: the vast majority of people in social housing are citizens, but UK law makes no distinction between a citizen born in the UK and one not born in the UK, between a citizen who was a citizen from birth or who acquired citizenship last week. Goodwin takes a statistic about people born overseas and conflates it with “its own citizens”.

    Critics of Goodwin don’t do themselves any favours by pretending that someone who is British but born abroad is the same as a naturalised citizen who immigrated to the UK.
    Goodwin referred to "its own citizens" which surely just means a UK citizen, unless you think that there should be different classes of citizenship. My brothers in law are both naturalised citizens as they arrived in the UK as young children speaking no English. They are now both doctors. I find the idea that they should have fewer rights than you or me revolting.
    Goodwin may have started out as a serious academic but he's become a saloon bar bore courting social media attention from the mouth breathing fraternity.
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    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,822
    kle4 said:

    I don't know the context of or details of the case in question, but I'm still confident the Court should really not have been surprised by this particular point.

    And here it is should anyone want the 156 pages:

    https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Joanna-Phoenix-v-The-Open-University-Employment-Tribunal-Reserved-Judgment.pdf
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,426
    edited January 23
    US Supreme Court votes 5-4 in favour of allowing the Biden administration to remove razor wire on the Mexican border deployed by order of the GOP Texas governor
    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/22/politics/supreme-court-texas-razor-wire/index.html
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,402

    On Goodwin, this clip is an example of something Goodwin claims: https://x.com/gbnews/status/1732686385717641443 The tweet says:

    “Did you know that more than 50% of social housing is occupied by people who aren't British? It is not acceptable for any modern society to be relegating its own citizens in this way, from having access to basic services.”

    In the clip, he’s specifically talking about London. However, the figure is not true, for London or anywhere. He conflates being born in Britain with being British, so someone like Boris Johnson is not British under Godwin’s definition. The lie is apparent by the way he talks about “its own citizens”: the vast majority of people in social housing are citizens, but UK law makes no distinction between a citizen born in the UK and one not born in the UK, between a citizen who was a citizen from birth or who acquired citizenship last week. Goodwin takes a statistic about people born overseas and conflates it with “its own citizens”.

    Critics of Goodwin don’t do themselves any favours by pretending that someone who is British but born abroad is the same as a naturalised citizen who immigrated to the UK.
    Hang on.

    Surely all citizens are citizens.

    Once a citizen, you can vote, be conscripted to fight, etc.

    If he'd said "foreign born", that would have been ok. But he didn't.

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    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,256

    On Goodwin, this clip is an example of something Goodwin claims: https://x.com/gbnews/status/1732686385717641443 The tweet says:

    “Did you know that more than 50% of social housing is occupied by people who aren't British? It is not acceptable for any modern society to be relegating its own citizens in this way, from having access to basic services.”

    In the clip, he’s specifically talking about London. However, the figure is not true, for London or anywhere. He conflates being born in Britain with being British, so someone like Boris Johnson is not British under Godwin’s definition. The lie is apparent by the way he talks about “its own citizens”: the vast majority of people in social housing are citizens, but UK law makes no distinction between a citizen born in the UK and one not born in the UK, between a citizen who was a citizen from birth or who acquired citizenship last week. Goodwin takes a statistic about people born overseas and conflates it with “its own citizens”.

    Critics of Goodwin don’t do themselves any favours by pretending that someone who is British but born abroad is the same as a naturalised citizen who immigrated to the UK.
    It’s Goodwin who appears to be equating them, not me. His numbers are about people not born in Britain. He doesn’t split those by citizenship at birth.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,339
    CatMan said:

    If anyone wants a good laugh, this prediction of next year in Brexit Britain, from Daniel Hannan in 2016 has been doing the rounds on Twitter/X/Muskovision

    https://reaction.life/britain-looks-like-brexit/

    It's not funny, just a bit sad. Although I frequently criticised Hannan as Vorbis I have to concede that he genuinely thought that he understood things and that things would go in his desired direction. So the disparity between his prediction and the mundane reality is no source of joy to me.
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    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,455
    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The MP for York Rachel Maskell slightly embarrassed herself today by asking whether Post Office could be brought under public ownership.

    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-rishi-sunak-general-election-keir-starmer-12593360

    Is it possible that she might reflect that public ownership doesn't actually solve problems after all or is that too much of an intellectual leap for her?
    I mean, public ownership self evidently solves some problems. The only rational debate is how much.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,037
    rcs1000 said:

    On Goodwin, this clip is an example of something Goodwin claims: https://x.com/gbnews/status/1732686385717641443 The tweet says:

    “Did you know that more than 50% of social housing is occupied by people who aren't British? It is not acceptable for any modern society to be relegating its own citizens in this way, from having access to basic services.”

    In the clip, he’s specifically talking about London. However, the figure is not true, for London or anywhere. He conflates being born in Britain with being British, so someone like Boris Johnson is not British under Godwin’s definition. The lie is apparent by the way he talks about “its own citizens”: the vast majority of people in social housing are citizens, but UK law makes no distinction between a citizen born in the UK and one not born in the UK, between a citizen who was a citizen from birth or who acquired citizenship last week. Goodwin takes a statistic about people born overseas and conflates it with “its own citizens”.

    Critics of Goodwin don’t do themselves any favours by pretending that someone who is British but born abroad is the same as a naturalised citizen who immigrated to the UK.
    Hang on.

    Surely all citizens are citizens.

    Once a citizen, you can vote, be conscripted to fight, etc.

    If he'd said "foreign born", that would have been ok. But he didn't.

    It would have been clearer and less deliberately conflating. It still wouldn't have been ok imo. It is quite right that British citizens, wherever they are born are treated equally under the law. He clearly has an issue with that.
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    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,455
    viewcode said:

    CatMan said:

    If anyone wants a good laugh, this prediction of next year in Brexit Britain, from Daniel Hannan in 2016 has been doing the rounds on Twitter/X/Muskovision

    https://reaction.life/britain-looks-like-brexit/

    It's not funny, just a bit sad. Although I frequently criticised Hannan as Vorbis I have to concede that he genuinely thought that he understood things and that things would go in his desired direction. So the disparity between his prediction and the mundane reality is no source of joy to me.
    Am I the only one reading that and thinking “some is about right, some is not, but the context he wrote it in was to argue his case, so not even he thought it was a prediction”.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 56,171
    viewcode said:

    CatMan said:

    If anyone wants a good laugh, this prediction of next year in Brexit Britain, from Daniel Hannan in 2016 has been doing the rounds on Twitter/X/Muskovision

    https://reaction.life/britain-looks-like-brexit/

    It's not funny, just a bit sad. Although I frequently criticised Hannan as Vorbis I have to concede that he genuinely thought that he understood things and that things would go in his desired direction. So the disparity between his prediction and the mundane reality is no source of joy to me.
    I used to be a big fan but Hannan and Carswell basically ran away when Brexit was won. Lost a lot of respect as a result.

    Contrast to Gove who actually owned it, and put the graft in.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806
    HYUFD said:

    US Supreme Court votes 5-4 in favour of allowing the Biden administration to remove razor wire on the Mexican border deployed by order of the GOP Texas governor
    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/22/politics/supreme-court-texas-razor-wire/index.html

    Now that is interesting, because Coney Barrett must have been one of the five.

    She is not necessarily the one I would have expected to not play silly buggers.

    Depressing to reflect though that four justices have so far forgotten their own views on the constitution that they declared it's OK for states to illegally obstruct the federal government in federal matters. I mean, do they want that as a precedent should the Orange Haired One get in again?
This discussion has been closed.