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How Biden’s making Trump’s cognitive decline an issue – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,010
edited February 4 in General
How Biden’s making Trump’s cognitive decline an issue – politicalbetting.com

BREAKING: President Biden just released this devastating ad calling out Donald Trump’s cognitive decline. Retweet to make sure everyone in the country sees. pic.twitter.com/SgYfYPWfRt

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  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,912
    It could easily backfire badly, as others have already noted

    Risky
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855
    Second like Biden.
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,000
    Feels like an odd battleground to be staking out tbh.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855
    Meanwhile the Trump campaign retweets this.

    “White House Senior Living, where residents feel like presidents”
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=m3ey2KXJ5kM
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    Leon said:

    It could easily backfire badly, as others have already noted

    Risky

    Perhaps.

    But Trump does seem to at least caught up Biden on the mental capacity question. Some of Trump's speeches are outright weird.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,930
    Leon said:

    It could easily backfire badly, as others have already noted

    Risky

    I don't think it will backfire, so much as not have the impact it could have. If the Dems had a candidate who was capable of muttering more than "I like ice cream", then it would be a more powerful attack line.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,254

    Leon said:

    It could easily backfire badly, as others have already noted

    Risky

    Perhaps.

    But Trump does seem to at least caught up Biden on the mental capacity question. Some of Trump's speeches are outright weird.
    Er, is this one of those sun rises in the east things. When have they not been weird.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,091
    edited January 22

    Leon said:

    It could easily backfire badly, as others have already noted

    Risky

    Perhaps.

    But Trump does seem to at least caught up Biden on the mental capacity question. Some of Trump's speeches are outright weird.
    As I posted earlier, Biden has some moments of absolute clarity. Trump is a gibbering idiot without respite, and it's not new.

    Hands up if anyone remembers Trump explaining that the intravenous administration of Domestos into the bloodstream was a cure for COVID 19.

  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    edited January 22
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    It could easily backfire badly, as others have already noted

    Risky

    Perhaps.

    But Trump does seem to at least caught up Biden on the mental capacity question. Some of Trump's speeches are outright weird.
    Er, is this one of those sun rises in the east things. When have they not been weird.
    Well, if you accept he is peddling a brand of cult of personality that requires a wholesale suspension of disbelief, fair enough.

    But lately, he has ramped up weird to 11. It's possible he's not coping well with the pressure of multiple law suits, civil and criminal, whilst running for President of the US of A. That stress would fell a man thirty years his junior.
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    It's a bold strategy, Cotton, lets see if it pays off.

    If Biden was 20 years younger, sure, but they've just opened the gates. I guess Trump would go for Biden whatever, so might as well play dirty
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,365

    It's a bold strategy, Cotton, lets see if it pays off.

    If Biden was 20 years younger, sure, but they've just opened the gates. I guess Trump would go for Biden whatever, so might as well play dirty

    I will give you a *like* for a reference to one of my favourite characters from of one of my favourite films.
  • Options
    Cookie said:

    It's a bold strategy, Cotton, lets see if it pays off.

    If Biden was 20 years younger, sure, but they've just opened the gates. I guess Trump would go for Biden whatever, so might as well play dirty

    I will give you a *like* for a reference to one of my favourite characters from of one of my favourite films.
    If you can dodge spanners then you can dodge a dodgeball.

    We need more Patches O’Houllihan quotes on PB.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,912
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    It could easily backfire badly, as others have already noted

    Risky

    I don't think it will backfire, so much as not have the impact it could have. If the Dems had a candidate who was capable of muttering more than "I like ice cream", then it would be a more powerful attack line.
    Ah, but consider this, Phoebus

    We all know Trump has a rat like cunning and a weird gift for scheming politics. What if he’s been FAKING the senility for the last two years, in order to draw out this risky attack from the Dems

    Now Donald can go on TV and prove he’s got all his marbles and is sharp as a razor inside the Great Pyramid of Cheops AND he can now slay Biden for being a demented old mongoose, and Biden is stuck

    Ahahah. I have all my best ideas on the cross trainer
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,868
    The advantage of this attack from the Democrats is that Republicans are running it too
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,969

    Leon said:

    It could easily backfire badly, as others have already noted

    Risky

    Perhaps.

    But Trump does seem to at least caught up Biden on the mental capacity question. Some of Trump's speeches are outright weird.
    As I posted earlier, Biden has some moments of absolute clarity. Trump is a gibbering idiot without respite, and it's not new.

    Hands up if anyone remembers Trump explaining that the intravenous administration of Domestos into the bloodstream was a cure for COVID 19.

    Judging by the look on her face during that press conference, I think his chief scientific adviser probably does.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855
    Just in case anyone ever thinks of booking a flight with Ryanair - here’s what happens when there’s a storm, and one can’t help get the feeling that the airline operations department prioritised the positioning of the aircraft and crew, over the needs of the passengers on the weather-affected flights.

    That there were no hotels or taxis organised shouldn’t need to be stated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12991423/storm-isha-ryanair-chaos-passengers-stranded-delays-airline-diverts.html
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,963
    Scott_xP said:

    The advantage of this attack from the Democrats is that Republicans are running it too

    Haley certainly will be
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,159
    Well, well.

    You'll recall my recent header here - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/01/15/conflicts-of-interest-2/ (a longer version with more detail is on my website here - https://www.cyclefree.co.uk/time-to-stamp-this-out/) and what I said about the part-time Chair of the Post Office also being the Chair of HM Courts and Tribunals Service at the time when the Post Office - astonishingly - sought to get Mr Justice Fraser, the judge who had ruled against the Post Office in the Bates litigation recused.

    And - even more astonishingly - sought the advice of the former Head of the Supreme Court in relation to this.



    The attempt was dismissed with contempt by the Court of Appeal.

    This has now been picked up by Computer Weekly and a Labour peer is asking an urgent question about what the government knew about this.

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366567032/Urgent-question-asks-which-ministers-knew-of-Post-Offices-shocking-plan-to-remove-judge

    Remember that the government had its own appointed director on the Board to represent the taxpayers' interests. That independent director at the time was Tom Cooper, ex UBS and Deutsche Bank banker.

    Perhaps he could also pick up the fact that the PO has appointed a director who is also on the Board of the CPS and ask what the government knows about this.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,159
    edited January 22
    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4664196#Comment_4664196

    A good start. But let's be a little more precise.

    The signal it sends out is of a society drawn up by men for men's benefit and in which men, however progressive or liberal they like to claim they are, find it remarkably hard to accommodate the desires or needs of women where this would involve any restrictions on or changes to their own behaviour.

    Indeed - and drawing in another thread of the comments on the previous thread - the last few years have seen a very determined attempt, supported to a greater or lesser extent at various times by all the main parties - to limit or remove some of the existing rights women have, often accompanied by some pretty insulting and, at times, downright hateful language.

    "Culture wars" - whatever they mean - are not a phenomenon restricted to the right.
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    Just in case anyone ever thinks of booking a flight with Ryanair - here’s what happens when there’s a storm, and one can’t help get the feeling that the airline operations department prioritised the positioning of the aircraft and crew, over the needs of the passengers on the weather-affected flights.

    That there were no hotels or taxis organised shouldn’t need to be stated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12991423/storm-isha-ryanair-chaos-passengers-stranded-delays-airline-diverts.html

    Meh. Chaotic, rapidly changing conditions leads to travel chaos shock. The sensible thing to do would be to cancel all the flights until it passes, but people would lose their shit if they did that, just as they do when the trains do the same.

    Of more interest is Manchester to Dublin diverted to Paris. I assume they would need to be held on the plane or at least airside as may not have documents to enter France...?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,148
    The "Obama" references are telling, aren't they.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,930
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    It could easily backfire badly, as others have already noted

    Risky

    I don't think it will backfire, so much as not have the impact it could have. If the Dems had a candidate who was capable of muttering more than "I like ice cream", then it would be a more powerful attack line.
    Ah, but consider this, Phoebus

    We all know Trump has a rat like cunning and a weird gift for scheming politics. What if he’s been FAKING the senility for the last two years, in order to draw out this risky attack from the Dems

    Now Donald can go on TV and prove he’s got all his marbles and is sharp as a razor inside the Great Pyramid of Cheops AND he can now slay Biden for being a demented old mongoose, and Biden is stuck

    Ahahah. I have all my best ideas on the cross trainer
    Well, it's a theory.

    Personally, I think that four years ago, some of Mr Trump's best attacks against Joe were about his age and mental acuity. I don't think he has that advantage again. This time around, they're both increasingly doolally.

  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,608
    edited January 22

    Leon said:

    It could easily backfire badly, as others have already noted

    Risky

    Perhaps.

    But Trump does seem to at least caught up Biden on the mental capacity question. Some of Trump's speeches are outright weird.
    As I posted earlier, Biden has some moments of absolute clarity. Trump is a gibbering idiot without respite, and it's not new.

    Hands up if anyone remembers Trump explaining that the intravenous administration of Domestos into the bloodstream was a cure for COVID 19.

    There's some argument abolut whether he meant or said ingest rather than inject - but generally drinking the stuff is not recommended, any more than mainlining it is.
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,763
    kinabalu said:

    The "Obama" references are telling, aren't they.

    He's been saying odd stuff like that for years, but maybe they are actually getting worse? If he really does have early onset dementia, a proper campaign would surely expose that (although the MAGA lot would still vote for him).

    Who Trump picks for his VP might be much more significant than we realise.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,912
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    It could easily backfire badly, as others have already noted

    Risky

    I don't think it will backfire, so much as not have the impact it could have. If the Dems had a candidate who was capable of muttering more than "I like ice cream", then it would be a more powerful attack line.
    Ah, but consider this, Phoebus

    We all know Trump has a rat like cunning and a weird gift for scheming politics. What if he’s been FAKING the senility for the last two years, in order to draw out this risky attack from the Dems

    Now Donald can go on TV and prove he’s got all his marbles and is sharp as a razor inside the Great Pyramid of Cheops AND he can now slay Biden for being a demented old mongoose, and Biden is stuck

    Ahahah. I have all my best ideas on the cross trainer
    Well, it's a theory.

    Personally, I think that four years ago, some of Mr Trump's best attacks against Joe were about his age and mental acuity. I don't think he has that advantage again. This time around, they're both increasingly doolally.

    It would be a brilliant bit of political legerdemain; I accept it is somewhat unlikely… and yet not impossible. Trump has that eerie genius, sometimes

    Pretend you’re going gaga. Fool the libs. Whack ‘em when they fall for it
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855

    Sandpit said:

    Just in case anyone ever thinks of booking a flight with Ryanair - here’s what happens when there’s a storm, and one can’t help get the feeling that the airline operations department prioritised the positioning of the aircraft and crew, over the needs of the passengers on the weather-affected flights.

    That there were no hotels or taxis organised shouldn’t need to be stated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12991423/storm-isha-ryanair-chaos-passengers-stranded-delays-airline-diverts.html

    Meh. Chaotic, rapidly changing conditions leads to travel chaos shock. The sensible thing to do would be to cancel all the flights until it passes, but people would lose their shit if they did that, just as they do when the trains do the same.

    Of more interest is Manchester to Dublin diverted to Paris. I assume they would need to be held on the plane or at least airside as may not have documents to enter France...?
    Yes the documentation issue could have been a nightmare in France for some pax.

    Each airline will do what they see as in their own best interest, but one gets the feeling that other airlines will have treated delayed or cancelled pax better. Wouldn’t have been too difficult to have found 100 hotel rooms in Manchester.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,584
    Sandpit said:

    Just in case anyone ever thinks of booking a flight with Ryanair - here’s what happens when there’s a storm, and one can’t help get the feeling that the airline operations department prioritised the positioning of the aircraft and crew, over the needs of the passengers on the weather-affected flights.

    That there were no hotels or taxis organised shouldn’t need to be stated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12991423/storm-isha-ryanair-chaos-passengers-stranded-delays-airline-diverts.html

    Ryanair runs with no margins for anything to go wrong hence cheap flights. And when it works (as it has done on every flight I have been on) it works well. When things go wrong however it is going to go wrong spectacularly. It is what you get if you want cheap flights. If you want cheap flights you have to accept that occasionally when it all goes pear-shaped you are going to get very angry about it (as I know I would [irrationally] also).

    Once they calm down, having vowed never to book with Ryanair again, they will be back for the cheap flights.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,232
    Sandpit said:

    Just in case anyone ever thinks of booking a flight with Ryanair - here’s what happens when there’s a storm, and one can’t help get the feeling that the airline operations department prioritised the positioning of the aircraft and crew, over the needs of the passengers on the weather-affected flights.

    That there were no hotels or taxis organised shouldn’t need to be stated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12991423/storm-isha-ryanair-chaos-passengers-stranded-delays-airline-diverts.html

    What do you expect, for £7.99
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,588
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Just in case anyone ever thinks of booking a flight with Ryanair - here’s what happens when there’s a storm, and one can’t help get the feeling that the airline operations department prioritised the positioning of the aircraft and crew, over the needs of the passengers on the weather-affected flights.

    That there were no hotels or taxis organised shouldn’t need to be stated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12991423/storm-isha-ryanair-chaos-passengers-stranded-delays-airline-diverts.html

    Meh. Chaotic, rapidly changing conditions leads to travel chaos shock. The sensible thing to do would be to cancel all the flights until it passes, but people would lose their shit if they did that, just as they do when the trains do the same.

    Of more interest is Manchester to Dublin diverted to Paris. I assume they would need to be held on the plane or at least airside as may not have documents to enter France...?
    Yes the documentation issue could have been a nightmare in France for some pax.

    Each airline will do what they see as in their own best interest, but one gets the feeling that other airlines will have treated delayed or cancelled pax better. Wouldn’t have been too difficult to have found 100 hotel rooms in Manchester.
    Worst still. the Manchester to Stanstead diverted to Budapest (!), shirley?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,963
    '@sonofr
    Rachel Reeves:
    "Britain is outside the European Union, the Single Market, the Customs Union, and Free Movement, and those things won't change under Labour."

    Well, Rachel, we may be desperate to get the Tories out, but we really don't need #BrexitLabour.

    Why are you ignoring the majority? You'll pay a heavy price - and so will we. GET A GRIP!'
    https://x.com/sonofr/status/1749367972550823965?s=20
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,559
    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    Just in case anyone ever thinks of booking a flight with Ryanair - here’s what happens when there’s a storm, and one can’t help get the feeling that the airline operations department prioritised the positioning of the aircraft and crew, over the needs of the passengers on the weather-affected flights.

    That there were no hotels or taxis organised shouldn’t need to be stated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12991423/storm-isha-ryanair-chaos-passengers-stranded-delays-airline-diverts.html

    Ryanair runs with no margins for anything to go wrong hence cheap flights. And when it works (as it has done on every flight I have been on) it works well. When things go wrong however it is going to go wrong spectacularly. It is what you get if you want cheap flights. If you want cheap flights you have to accept that occasionally when it all goes pear-shaped you are going to get very angry about it (as I know I would [irrationally] also).

    Once they calm down, having vowed never to book with Ryanair again, they will be back for the cheap flights.
    I tried Ryanair. I vowed to never book Ryanair again and I haven’t ever booked Ryanair again. There are cheap flights available from airlines that are better than Ryanair.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Just in case anyone ever thinks of booking a flight with Ryanair - here’s what happens when there’s a storm, and one can’t help get the feeling that the airline operations department prioritised the positioning of the aircraft and crew, over the needs of the passengers on the weather-affected flights.

    That there were no hotels or taxis organised shouldn’t need to be stated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12991423/storm-isha-ryanair-chaos-passengers-stranded-delays-airline-diverts.html

    Meh. Chaotic, rapidly changing conditions leads to travel chaos shock. The sensible thing to do would be to cancel all the flights until it passes, but people would lose their shit if they did that, just as they do when the trains do the same.

    Of more interest is Manchester to Dublin diverted to Paris. I assume they would need to be held on the plane or at least airside as may not have documents to enter France...?
    Yes the documentation issue could have been a nightmare in France for some pax.

    Each airline will do what they see as in their own best interest, but one gets the feeling that other airlines will have treated delayed or cancelled pax better. Wouldn’t have been too difficult to have found 100 hotel rooms in Manchester.
    Worst still. the Manchester to Stanstead diverted to Budapest (!), shirley?
    I just spotted that one.

    No reason for that other than trying to position the aircraft and crew. A domestic flight landing 1,500 miles away, bypassing dozens of company airfields on the way. I want to see Ryanair get a meaningful fine there.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,091
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    It could easily backfire badly, as others have already noted

    Risky

    I don't think it will backfire, so much as not have the impact it could have. If the Dems had a candidate who was capable of muttering more than "I like ice cream", then it would be a more powerful attack line.
    Ah, but consider this, Phoebus

    We all know Trump has a rat like cunning and a weird gift for scheming politics. What if he’s been FAKING the senility for the last two years, in order to draw out this risky attack from the Dems

    Now Donald can go on TV and prove he’s got all his marbles and is sharp as a razor inside the Great Pyramid of Cheops AND he can now slay Biden for being a demented old mongoose, and Biden is stuck

    Ahahah. I have all my best ideas on the cross trainer
    Did AI write that for you? Either way it is b*ll*cks.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,522
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    It could easily backfire badly, as others have already noted

    Risky

    I don't think it will backfire, so much as not have the impact it could have. If the Dems had a candidate who was capable of muttering more than "I like ice cream", then it would be a more powerful attack line.
    Ah, but consider this, Phoebus

    We all know Trump has a rat like cunning and a weird gift for scheming politics. What if he’s been FAKING the senility for the last two years, in order to draw out this risky attack from the Dems

    Now Donald can go on TV and prove he’s got all his marbles and is sharp as a razor inside the Great Pyramid of Cheops AND he can now slay Biden for being a demented old mongoose, and Biden is stuck

    Ahahah. I have all my best ideas on the cross trainer
    Well, it's a theory.

    Personally, I think that four years ago, some of Mr Trump's best attacks against Joe were about his age and mental acuity. I don't think he has that advantage again. This time around, they're both increasingly doolally.

    It would be a brilliant bit of political legerdemain; I accept it is somewhat unlikely… and yet not impossible. Trump has that eerie genius, sometimes

    Pretend you’re going gaga. Fool the libs. Whack ‘em when they fall for it
    Pretending you're going gaga doesn't work because no amount of lucidity (and we all have lucid moments) will make people forget when you seemed doolally. Biden has plenty of lucid moments but people remember the mumbling.

    I think the effect is probably neutral. It might blunt some of the attacks on Biden's age but I doubt it will really shift things.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,608
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/22/tories-hire-coordinator-to-get-expat-supporters-to-vote-in-general-election

    'An extra 2.2 million overseas voters who have lived abroad for more than 15 years regained the right to vote in UK elections last Tuesday, after a statutory instrument that was approved by parliament in late December almost unnoticed came into force.


    The expansion means they will be able to register in the constituency of the last address at which they were resident if they are able to provide relevant documentation, or failing that, through local records or on the word of an eligible British resident.

    They will then be able to vote by proxy, with one proxy voter able to vote on behalf of as many as four overseas voters.

    The Electoral Commission raised concerns in response to an earlier consultation in 2016 that voters “might be tempted to choose a marginal seat they had once lived in rather than a safe seat even if it had not been the last address they lived at before leaving”.

    Concerns were also raised about the difficulty of checking information and the potential for fraud.'
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,411
    edited January 22
    .
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    It could easily backfire badly, as others have already noted

    Risky

    I don't think it will backfire, so much as not have the impact it could have. If the Dems had a candidate who was capable of muttering more than "I like ice cream", then it would be a more powerful attack line.
    Ah, but consider this, Phoebus

    We all know Trump has a rat like cunning and a weird gift for scheming politics. What if he’s been FAKING the senility for the last two years, in order to draw out this risky attack from the Dems

    Now Donald can go on TV and prove he’s got all his marbles and is sharp as a razor inside the Great Pyramid of Cheops AND he can now slay Biden for being a demented old mongoose, and Biden is stuck

    Ahahah. I have all my best ideas on the cross trainer
    Well, it's a theory.

    Personally, I think that four years ago, some of Mr Trump's best attacks against Joe were about his age and mental acuity. I don't think he has that advantage again. This time around, they're both increasingly doolally.

    It would be a brilliant bit of political legerdemain; I accept it is somewhat unlikely… and yet not impossible. Trump has that eerie genius, sometimes

    Pretend you’re going gaga. Fool the libs. Whack ‘em when they fall for it
    As an argument for Biden not running ads demonstrating Trump's increasing incoherence, that's ... unconvincing.

    And anyway, Joe's dementia act has you fooled conpletely.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,989
    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Violence is, also, the inevitable endpoint if illegal migration continues and worsens, and no other alternative is found

    Which is one reason we desperately need to solve this, now, and humanely

    I imagine you would have said this at any point over the past 50 years. Indeed I believe it was said with a degree of rhetorical flourish some 55 years ago.
    Yes, yawn, whatever, bur I'm not wrong, am I?

    In the end if illegal immigration just gets worse and worse, governments will be forced to extreme methods to deter it

    We can already see it in parts of the world. It is also a particular hazard on the US Southern Border, where the local citizens are well armed, and generally not known for accepting fate with stoic pacifism
    Yawn yourself. We are a huge country with plenty of room and the areas where immigration is most prevalent isn't Little Rissington in the Cotswolds. Londoners meanwhile don't mind it at all.

    Saying "there will be blood" is just posturing and alarmist. And has been shown in the UK not to be the case.
    At the end of the day borders need to be enforced. Just as the law needs to be enforced. You arrest, detain and deport.

    I struggle to work out how, somewhere along the line, this became controversial.
    Deportations are massively down compared to 2010. See https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-march-2023/how-many-people-are-detained-or-returned

    That’s the issue. The Tories talk a lot about Rwanda, but they’re not doing the basics.
    Two reasons for the reduction in deportations:

    1. Illegals deliberately arriving with no documents or paperwork, meaning that it costs a lot of time and money to even work out who they are.

    2. Organised groups of British individuals funding limitless appeals and legal processes, including harrasment of airlines.

    Fix those two issues, the first with Rwanda or the Falklands, and the second by legislating for a single appeal before automatic deportation, and the problem gets a lot easier.
    First one is easy, just make it taht having no documents means you are deported immediately. Second one jsut run 24x7 courts and apply your 3rd suggestion. You can have them wrapped up and on the plane/boat in a day.
    The issue is “where to?”
  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,561
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    It could easily backfire badly, as others have already noted

    Risky

    I don't think it will backfire, so much as not have the impact it could have. If the Dems had a candidate who was capable of muttering more than "I like ice cream", then it would be a more powerful attack line.
    "God Save the Queen, Man".
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855
    edited January 22
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Just in case anyone ever thinks of booking a flight with Ryanair - here’s what happens when there’s a storm, and one can’t help get the feeling that the airline operations department prioritised the positioning of the aircraft and crew, over the needs of the passengers on the weather-affected flights.

    That there were no hotels or taxis organised shouldn’t need to be stated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12991423/storm-isha-ryanair-chaos-passengers-stranded-delays-airline-diverts.html

    What do you expect, for £7.99
    That if they can’t afford to insure themselves for the occasional plane full of hotel rooms and taxis, they should make the fares £8.99 or £9.99 instead?

    They made €1.43bn profit last year, it’s not as if they’re short of money.
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/22/ryanair-profit-summer-bookings-aircraft
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,912
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    It could easily backfire badly, as others have already noted

    Risky

    I don't think it will backfire, so much as not have the impact it could have. If the Dems had a candidate who was capable of muttering more than "I like ice cream", then it would be a more powerful attack line.
    Ah, but consider this, Phoebus

    We all know Trump has a rat like cunning and a weird gift for scheming politics. What if he’s been FAKING the senility for the last two years, in order to draw out this risky attack from the Dems

    Now Donald can go on TV and prove he’s got all his marbles and is sharp as a razor inside the Great Pyramid of Cheops AND he can now slay Biden for being a demented old mongoose, and Biden is stuck

    Ahahah. I have all my best ideas on the cross trainer
    Well, it's a theory.

    Personally, I think that four years ago, some of Mr Trump's best attacks against Joe were about his age and mental acuity. I don't think he has that advantage again. This time around, they're both increasingly doolally.

    It would be a brilliant bit of political legerdemain; I accept it is somewhat unlikely… and yet not impossible. Trump has that eerie genius, sometimes

    Pretend you’re going gaga. Fool the libs. Whack ‘em when they fall for it
    Pretending you're going gaga doesn't work because no amount of lucidity (and we all have lucid moments) will make people forget when you seemed doolally. Biden has plenty of lucid moments but people remember the mumbling.

    I think the effect is probably neutral. It might blunt some of the attacks on Biden's age but I doubt it will really shift things.
    Ignore me

    I’m just bored and typing any old nonsense. I’m on another fast. Still determined to keep losing the chunk

    But no food, no booze? - my god it is dull

    I shall go and watch Money Heist (which is quite good, so far)
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855
    Oh, so it turns out there’s already been £100k in legal aid given to the ‘pupil’ suing Katherine Birbalsingh.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/21/michaela-school-multiculturalism-trojan-horse-islamist/

    At Michaela, half its 700 pupils are Muslim. When around 30 started public prayer rituals in the shared playground, the governing body intervened. Birbalsingh explains that the decision was taken “against a backdrop of events including violence, intimidation and appalling racial harassment of our teachers”. Staff received death threats and were told the school would be bombed.

    “Now, an unnamed pupil is suing Michaela, backed by over £100,000 in legal aid, and likely much more to come. The student had already been in trouble after being accused of intimidating other Muslim pupils who did not fast during Ramadan, and was suspended last year for allegedly threatening to stab another child (which the pupil denied).

    “They are supported by a law firm in receipt of huge sums in public funding. They have instructed a barrister from Matrix Chambers, the legal practice specialising in human rights co-founded by Cherie Blair.

    “Even though the school policy applies to all faiths, the Matrix argument is that it is a de facto Muslim prayer ban, because Islamic prayer is ritualised and not internal. Christian children, they say, are still allowed to pray personally and quietly.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,989
    Sandpit said:

    Oh, so it turns out there’s already been £100k in legal aid given to the ‘pupil’ suing Katherine Birbalsingh.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/21/michaela-school-multiculturalism-trojan-horse-islamist/

    At Michaela, half its 700 pupils are Muslim. When around 30 started public prayer rituals in the shared playground, the governing body intervened. Birbalsingh explains that the decision was taken “against a backdrop of events including violence, intimidation and appalling racial harassment of our teachers”. Staff received death threats and were told the school would be bombed.

    “Now, an unnamed pupil is suing Michaela, backed by over £100,000 in legal aid, and likely much more to come. The student had already been in trouble after being accused of intimidating other Muslim pupils who did not fast during Ramadan, and was suspended last year for allegedly threatening to stab another child (which the pupil denied).

    “They are supported by a law firm in receipt of huge sums in public funding. They have instructed a barrister from Matrix Chambers, the legal practice specialising in human rights co-founded by Cherie Blair.

    “Even though the school policy applies to all faiths, the Matrix argument is that it is a de facto Muslim prayer ban, because Islamic prayer is ritualised and not internal. Christian children, they say, are still allowed to pray personally and quietly.

    I believe the £100k was a daily mail estimate
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, so it turns out there’s already been £100k in legal aid given to the ‘pupil’ suing Katherine Birbalsingh.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/21/michaela-school-multiculturalism-trojan-horse-islamist/

    At Michaela, half its 700 pupils are Muslim. When around 30 started public prayer rituals in the shared playground, the governing body intervened. Birbalsingh explains that the decision was taken “against a backdrop of events including violence, intimidation and appalling racial harassment of our teachers”. Staff received death threats and were told the school would be bombed.

    “Now, an unnamed pupil is suing Michaela, backed by over £100,000 in legal aid, and likely much more to come. The student had already been in trouble after being accused of intimidating other Muslim pupils who did not fast during Ramadan, and was suspended last year for allegedly threatening to stab another child (which the pupil denied).

    “They are supported by a law firm in receipt of huge sums in public funding. They have instructed a barrister from Matrix Chambers, the legal practice specialising in human rights co-founded by Cherie Blair.

    “Even though the school policy applies to all faiths, the Matrix argument is that it is a de facto Muslim prayer ban, because Islamic prayer is ritualised and not internal. Christian children, they say, are still allowed to pray personally and quietly.

    I believe the £100k was a daily mail estimate
    The Telegraph are quoting the Times, that the bill is in the £100-150k range so far.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/19/muslim-pupil-taking-school-to-court-prayer-ban-on-legal-aid/
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,522
    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/22/tories-hire-coordinator-to-get-expat-supporters-to-vote-in-general-election

    'An extra 2.2 million overseas voters who have lived abroad for more than 15 years regained the right to vote in UK elections last Tuesday, after a statutory instrument that was approved by parliament in late December almost unnoticed came into force.


    The expansion means they will be able to register in the constituency of the last address at which they were resident if they are able to provide relevant documentation, or failing that, through local records or on the word of an eligible British resident.

    They will then be able to vote by proxy, with one proxy voter able to vote on behalf of as many as four overseas voters.

    The Electoral Commission raised concerns in response to an earlier consultation in 2016 that voters “might be tempted to choose a marginal seat they had once lived in rather than a safe seat even if it had not been the last address they lived at before leaving”.

    Concerns were also raised about the difficulty of checking information and the potential for fraud.'

    Would be interesting to see some polling of that group
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,608
    TimS said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/22/tories-hire-coordinator-to-get-expat-supporters-to-vote-in-general-election

    'An extra 2.2 million overseas voters who have lived abroad for more than 15 years regained the right to vote in UK elections last Tuesday, after a statutory instrument that was approved by parliament in late December almost unnoticed came into force.


    The expansion means they will be able to register in the constituency of the last address at which they were resident if they are able to provide relevant documentation, or failing that, through local records or on the word of an eligible British resident.

    They will then be able to vote by proxy, with one proxy voter able to vote on behalf of as many as four overseas voters.

    The Electoral Commission raised concerns in response to an earlier consultation in 2016 that voters “might be tempted to choose a marginal seat they had once lived in rather than a safe seat even if it had not been the last address they lived at before leaving”.

    Concerns were also raised about the difficulty of checking information and the potential for fraud.'

    Would be interesting to see some polling of that group
    MM, just what I was thinking. They could have some very out of date ideas.

    'Last week’s change means British expats will now have a “vote for life”, delivering on a Tory manifesto promise, regardless of how long they have lived overseas and whether they have used any services or paid any taxes in the UK in recent years.'
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,522
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    It could easily backfire badly, as others have already noted

    Risky

    I don't think it will backfire, so much as not have the impact it could have. If the Dems had a candidate who was capable of muttering more than "I like ice cream", then it would be a more powerful attack line.
    Ah, but consider this, Phoebus

    We all know Trump has a rat like cunning and a weird gift for scheming politics. What if he’s been FAKING the senility for the last two years, in order to draw out this risky attack from the Dems

    Now Donald can go on TV and prove he’s got all his marbles and is sharp as a razor inside the Great Pyramid of Cheops AND he can now slay Biden for being a demented old mongoose, and Biden is stuck

    Ahahah. I have all my best ideas on the cross trainer
    Well, it's a theory.

    Personally, I think that four years ago, some of Mr Trump's best attacks against Joe were about his age and mental acuity. I don't think he has that advantage again. This time around, they're both increasingly doolally.

    It would be a brilliant bit of political legerdemain; I accept it is somewhat unlikely… and yet not impossible. Trump has that eerie genius, sometimes

    Pretend you’re going gaga. Fool the libs. Whack ‘em when they fall for it
    Pretending you're going gaga doesn't work because no amount of lucidity (and we all have lucid moments) will make people forget when you seemed doolally. Biden has plenty of lucid moments but people remember the mumbling.

    I think the effect is probably neutral. It might blunt some of the attacks on Biden's age but I doubt it will really shift things.
    Ignore me

    I’m just bored and typing any old nonsense. I’m on another fast. Still determined to keep losing the chunk

    But no food, no booze? - my god it is dull

    I shall go and watch Money Heist (which is quite good, so far)
    I've weakened on the fasting. Difficult when the fridge is full and things getting close to their use by date.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,989
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, so it turns out there’s already been £100k in legal aid given to the ‘pupil’ suing Katherine Birbalsingh.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/21/michaela-school-multiculturalism-trojan-horse-islamist/

    At Michaela, half its 700 pupils are Muslim. When around 30 started public prayer rituals in the shared playground, the governing body intervened. Birbalsingh explains that the decision was taken “against a backdrop of events including violence, intimidation and appalling racial harassment of our teachers”. Staff received death threats and were told the school would be bombed.

    “Now, an unnamed pupil is suing Michaela, backed by over £100,000 in legal aid, and likely much more to come. The student had already been in trouble after being accused of intimidating other Muslim pupils who did not fast during Ramadan, and was suspended last year for allegedly threatening to stab another child (which the pupil denied).

    “They are supported by a law firm in receipt of huge sums in public funding. They have instructed a barrister from Matrix Chambers, the legal practice specialising in human rights co-founded by Cherie Blair.

    “Even though the school policy applies to all faiths, the Matrix argument is that it is a de facto Muslim prayer ban, because Islamic prayer is ritualised and not internal. Christian children, they say, are still allowed to pray personally and quietly.

    I believe the £100k was a daily mail estimate
    The Telegraph are quoting the Times, that the bill is in the £100-150k range so far.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/19/muslim-pupil-taking-school-to-court-prayer-ban-on-legal-aid/
    It may have been the times not the mail (so difficult to tell apart these days…)

    But it’s still an estimate

    Doesn’t not make it a stupid situation where a great charity is being sued and where it gets no come back on its expenses
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 4,749
    edited January 22
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Just in case anyone ever thinks of booking a flight with Ryanair - here’s what happens when there’s a storm, and one can’t help get the feeling that the airline operations department prioritised the positioning of the aircraft and crew, over the needs of the passengers on the weather-affected flights.

    That there were no hotels or taxis organised shouldn’t need to be stated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12991423/storm-isha-ryanair-chaos-passengers-stranded-delays-airline-diverts.html

    Meh. Chaotic, rapidly changing conditions leads to travel chaos shock. The sensible thing to do would be to cancel all the flights until it passes, but people would lose their shit if they did that, just as they do when the trains do the same.

    Of more interest is Manchester to Dublin diverted to Paris. I assume they would need to be held on the plane or at least airside as may not have documents to enter France...?
    Yes the documentation issue could have been a nightmare in France for some pax.

    Each airline will do what they see as in their own best interest, but one gets the feeling that other airlines will have treated delayed or cancelled pax better. Wouldn’t have been too difficult to have found 100 hotel rooms in Manchester.
    Worst still. the Manchester to Stanstead diverted to Budapest (!), shirley?
    I just spotted that one.

    No reason for that other than trying to position the aircraft and crew. A domestic flight landing 1,500 miles away, bypassing dozens of company airfields on the way. I want to see Ryanair get a meaningful fine there.
    They also have a large fleet of 737 Max aircraft , so even more reason not to fly with Ryan Air .

  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855
    edited January 22
    nico679 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Just in case anyone ever thinks of booking a flight with Ryanair - here’s what happens when there’s a storm, and one can’t help get the feeling that the airline operations department prioritised the positioning of the aircraft and crew, over the needs of the passengers on the weather-affected flights.

    That there were no hotels or taxis organised shouldn’t need to be stated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12991423/storm-isha-ryanair-chaos-passengers-stranded-delays-airline-diverts.html

    Meh. Chaotic, rapidly changing conditions leads to travel chaos shock. The sensible thing to do would be to cancel all the flights until it passes, but people would lose their shit if they did that, just as they do when the trains do the same.

    Of more interest is Manchester to Dublin diverted to Paris. I assume they would need to be held on the plane or at least airside as may not have documents to enter France...?
    Yes the documentation issue could have been a nightmare in France for some pax.

    Each airline will do what they see as in their own best interest, but one gets the feeling that other airlines will have treated delayed or cancelled pax better. Wouldn’t have been too difficult to have found 100 hotel rooms in Manchester.
    Worst still. the Manchester to Stanstead diverted to Budapest (!), shirley?
    I just spotted that one.

    No reason for that other than trying to position the aircraft and crew. A domestic flight landing 1,500 miles away, bypassing dozens of company airfields on the way. I want to see Ryanair get a meaningful fine there.
    They also have large fleet of 737 Max aircraft , so even more reason not to fly with Ryan Air .
    Ryanair’s 737-9s don’t have the ‘missing’ door, as they need every door they can find on their high-density planes.

    That they hold their customers in utter contempt, is the reason for not flying with them.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,148
    edited January 22

    Leon said:

    It could easily backfire badly, as others have already noted

    Risky

    Perhaps.

    But Trump does seem to at least caught up Biden on the mental capacity question. Some of Trump's speeches are outright weird.
    As I posted earlier, Biden has some moments of absolute clarity. Trump is a gibbering idiot without respite, and it's not new.

    Hands up if anyone remembers Trump explaining that the intravenous administration of Domestos into the bloodstream was a cure for COVID 19.
    Exacerbated by the fact Trump never has to argue anything out properly. He's used to having his inane ramblings greeted with either deference or applause. This means his ability to debate, to analyse, to reason, has not developed as it normally would, and now he's pushing 80 it's too late for this to change.
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 4,749
    TimS said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/22/tories-hire-coordinator-to-get-expat-supporters-to-vote-in-general-election

    'An extra 2.2 million overseas voters who have lived abroad for more than 15 years regained the right to vote in UK elections last Tuesday, after a statutory instrument that was approved by parliament in late December almost unnoticed came into force.


    The expansion means they will be able to register in the constituency of the last address at which they were resident if they are able to provide relevant documentation, or failing that, through local records or on the word of an eligible British resident.

    They will then be able to vote by proxy, with one proxy voter able to vote on behalf of as many as four overseas voters.

    The Electoral Commission raised concerns in response to an earlier consultation in 2016 that voters “might be tempted to choose a marginal seat they had once lived in rather than a safe seat even if it had not been the last address they lived at before leaving”.

    Concerns were also raised about the difficulty of checking information and the potential for fraud.'

    Would be interesting to see some polling of that group
    I doubt the Tories would have done this unless they thought it would overall benefit them . Although in terms of those living in the EU one would hope they would take this opportunity to punish them for Brexit . There were some of course especially a section in Spain who were so thick that they decided to vote Leave .
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,922
    nico679 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Just in case anyone ever thinks of booking a flight with Ryanair - here’s what happens when there’s a storm, and one can’t help get the feeling that the airline operations department prioritised the positioning of the aircraft and crew, over the needs of the passengers on the weather-affected flights.

    That there were no hotels or taxis organised shouldn’t need to be stated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12991423/storm-isha-ryanair-chaos-passengers-stranded-delays-airline-diverts.html

    Meh. Chaotic, rapidly changing conditions leads to travel chaos shock. The sensible thing to do would be to cancel all the flights until it passes, but people would lose their shit if they did that, just as they do when the trains do the same.

    Of more interest is Manchester to Dublin diverted to Paris. I assume they would need to be held on the plane or at least airside as may not have documents to enter France...?
    Yes the documentation issue could have been a nightmare in France for some pax.

    Each airline will do what they see as in their own best interest, but one gets the feeling that other airlines will have treated delayed or cancelled pax better. Wouldn’t have been too difficult to have found 100 hotel rooms in Manchester.
    Worst still. the Manchester to Stanstead diverted to Budapest (!), shirley?
    I just spotted that one.

    No reason for that other than trying to position the aircraft and crew. A domestic flight landing 1,500 miles away, bypassing dozens of company airfields on the way. I want to see Ryanair get a meaningful fine there.
    They also have large fleet of 737 Max aircraft , so even more reason not to fly with Ryan Air .

    Ryan Air fly the 'wrong' (right?) sort of 737 Max aircraft, one that is not affected by the problem.

    But it looks as though the problem may have got larger - the older 737-900ER jets with plug doors are also having to be checked.

    https://www.ft.com/content/6855cd24-75f8-4a3a-a8e3-b66274e6f58d
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    Missed this last week:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/22/tories-hire-coordinator-to-get-expat-supporters-to-vote-in-general-election

    An extra 2.2 million overseas voters who have lived abroad for more than 15 years regained the right to vote in UK elections last Tuesday, after a statutory instrument that was approved by parliament in late December almost unnoticed came into force.

    No sure how many will actually bother to vote, but feels a bit questionable.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,148
    CatMan said:

    kinabalu said:

    The "Obama" references are telling, aren't they.

    He's been saying odd stuff like that for years, but maybe they are actually getting worse? If he really does have early onset dementia, a proper campaign would surely expose that (although the MAGA lot would still vote for him).

    Who Trump picks for his VP might be much more significant than we realise.
    He looks more physically robust than Biden but mentally it's the other way around. Why I said the 'Obama' references are telling, though, is because I reckon spite against him is one of Trump's very biggest drivers.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,222
    tlg86 said:

    Missed this last week:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/22/tories-hire-coordinator-to-get-expat-supporters-to-vote-in-general-election

    An extra 2.2 million overseas voters who have lived abroad for more than 15 years regained the right to vote in UK elections last Tuesday, after a statutory instrument that was approved by parliament in late December almost unnoticed came into force.

    No sure how many will actually bother to vote, but feels a bit questionable.

    A desperate move by a desperate government :lol:
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,522
    nico679 said:

    TimS said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/22/tories-hire-coordinator-to-get-expat-supporters-to-vote-in-general-election

    'An extra 2.2 million overseas voters who have lived abroad for more than 15 years regained the right to vote in UK elections last Tuesday, after a statutory instrument that was approved by parliament in late December almost unnoticed came into force.


    The expansion means they will be able to register in the constituency of the last address at which they were resident if they are able to provide relevant documentation, or failing that, through local records or on the word of an eligible British resident.

    They will then be able to vote by proxy, with one proxy voter able to vote on behalf of as many as four overseas voters.

    The Electoral Commission raised concerns in response to an earlier consultation in 2016 that voters “might be tempted to choose a marginal seat they had once lived in rather than a safe seat even if it had not been the last address they lived at before leaving”.

    Concerns were also raised about the difficulty of checking information and the potential for fraud.'

    Would be interesting to see some polling of that group
    I doubt the Tories would have done this unless they thought it would overall benefit them . Although in terms of those living in the EU one would hope they would take this opportunity to punish them for Brexit . There were some of course especially a section in Spain who were so thick that they decided to vote Leave .
    I assume they might have done their own private polling although with this lot you never know. The assumption will be most in that category are well past retirement age, and if they've been out for over 15 years they won't have been here to witness the car crashes of the last few years.

    Evidence from other elections is mixed. The French ex-pats seem to vote for liberal internationalist candidates (and left wing ones in the colonial departments), so you'd think that would favour Lib Dems and Labour. I assume the US ex-pat voter base is heavily Dem-leaning but haven't seen any statistics. I think the Turkish diaspora were strongly pro-Erdogan, which surprised me.

    Either way it's good to see government expanding the franchise rather than trying to restrict voting as they've done with voter ID. This also opens the way as precedent for Labour to look to expand it to 16-18 year olds.
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 4,749

    nico679 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Just in case anyone ever thinks of booking a flight with Ryanair - here’s what happens when there’s a storm, and one can’t help get the feeling that the airline operations department prioritised the positioning of the aircraft and crew, over the needs of the passengers on the weather-affected flights.

    That there were no hotels or taxis organised shouldn’t need to be stated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12991423/storm-isha-ryanair-chaos-passengers-stranded-delays-airline-diverts.html

    Meh. Chaotic, rapidly changing conditions leads to travel chaos shock. The sensible thing to do would be to cancel all the flights until it passes, but people would lose their shit if they did that, just as they do when the trains do the same.

    Of more interest is Manchester to Dublin diverted to Paris. I assume they would need to be held on the plane or at least airside as may not have documents to enter France...?
    Yes the documentation issue could have been a nightmare in France for some pax.

    Each airline will do what they see as in their own best interest, but one gets the feeling that other airlines will have treated delayed or cancelled pax better. Wouldn’t have been too difficult to have found 100 hotel rooms in Manchester.
    Worst still. the Manchester to Stanstead diverted to Budapest (!), shirley?
    I just spotted that one.

    No reason for that other than trying to position the aircraft and crew. A domestic flight landing 1,500 miles away, bypassing dozens of company airfields on the way. I want to see Ryanair get a meaningful fine there.
    They also have large fleet of 737 Max aircraft , so even more reason not to fly with Ryan Air .

    Ryan Air fly the 'wrong' (right?) sort of 737 Max aircraft, one that is not affected by the problem.

    But it looks as though the problem may have got larger - the older 737-900ER jets with plug doors are also having to be checked.

    https://www.ft.com/content/6855cd24-75f8-4a3a-a8e3-b66274e6f58d
    Don’t be duped by their website . That makes out they don’t currently fly the Max and that they’re just being ordered . Go to airfleets to see the truth .

  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855

    nico679 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Just in case anyone ever thinks of booking a flight with Ryanair - here’s what happens when there’s a storm, and one can’t help get the feeling that the airline operations department prioritised the positioning of the aircraft and crew, over the needs of the passengers on the weather-affected flights.

    That there were no hotels or taxis organised shouldn’t need to be stated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12991423/storm-isha-ryanair-chaos-passengers-stranded-delays-airline-diverts.html

    Meh. Chaotic, rapidly changing conditions leads to travel chaos shock. The sensible thing to do would be to cancel all the flights until it passes, but people would lose their shit if they did that, just as they do when the trains do the same.

    Of more interest is Manchester to Dublin diverted to Paris. I assume they would need to be held on the plane or at least airside as may not have documents to enter France...?
    Yes the documentation issue could have been a nightmare in France for some pax.

    Each airline will do what they see as in their own best interest, but one gets the feeling that other airlines will have treated delayed or cancelled pax better. Wouldn’t have been too difficult to have found 100 hotel rooms in Manchester.
    Worst still. the Manchester to Stanstead diverted to Budapest (!), shirley?
    I just spotted that one.

    No reason for that other than trying to position the aircraft and crew. A domestic flight landing 1,500 miles away, bypassing dozens of company airfields on the way. I want to see Ryanair get a meaningful fine there.
    They also have large fleet of 737 Max aircraft , so even more reason not to fly with Ryan Air .

    Ryan Air fly the 'wrong' (right?) sort of 737 Max aircraft, one that is not affected by the problem.

    But it looks as though the problem may have got larger - the older 737-900ER jets with plug doors are also having to be checked.

    https://www.ft.com/content/6855cd24-75f8-4a3a-a8e3-b66274e6f58d
    The older -900ER door plugs are identical in design to the failure aircraft, although the fact that the failure occurred at low hours is more indicative of a build issue. They’re basically the outside skin of the door, but with bolts running through the location pins holding them in place. They can be opened for maintenance, rather than being permanently sealed shut.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=kKSNdqtG3dY
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,411
    This is a great thread.
    I think we should have more discussion of tailoring in cinema.
    https://twitter.com/dieworkwear/status/1749193687589142566

    (I agree with the thesis; Craig's Bond suits look awful.)
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,222
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    It could easily backfire badly, as others have already noted

    Risky

    I don't think it will backfire, so much as not have the impact it could have. If the Dems had a candidate who was capable of muttering more than "I like ice cream", then it would be a more powerful attack line.
    Ah, but consider this, Phoebus

    We all know Trump has a rat like cunning and a weird gift for scheming politics. What if he’s been FAKING the senility for the last two years, in order to draw out this risky attack from the Dems

    Now Donald can go on TV and prove he’s got all his marbles and is sharp as a razor inside the Great Pyramid of Cheops AND he can now slay Biden for being a demented old mongoose, and Biden is stuck

    Ahahah. I have all my best ideas on the cross trainer
    Well, it's a theory.

    Personally, I think that four years ago, some of Mr Trump's best attacks against Joe were about his age and mental acuity. I don't think he has that advantage again. This time around, they're both increasingly doolally.

    "I want you to know that also I will not make age an issue of this campaign. I am not going to exploit, for political purposes, my opponent's youth and inexperience." - R. Reagan, 1984.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855
    In case anyone had remaining doubts that AI is going to be a massive issue in the US election…

    https://www.axios.com/2024/01/21/dean-phillips-chat-gpt-ai-bot-suspension

    OpenAI has banned the developer of a bot that mimicked Democratic White House hopeful Rep. Dean Phillips (D-Minn.).

    This is the candidate’s “official” AI bot, not something programmed by a rival.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,148

    Sandpit said:

    Just in case anyone ever thinks of booking a flight with Ryanair - here’s what happens when there’s a storm, and one can’t help get the feeling that the airline operations department prioritised the positioning of the aircraft and crew, over the needs of the passengers on the weather-affected flights.

    That there were no hotels or taxis organised shouldn’t need to be stated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12991423/storm-isha-ryanair-chaos-passengers-stranded-delays-airline-diverts.html

    Meh. Chaotic, rapidly changing conditions leads to travel chaos shock. The sensible thing to do would be to cancel all the flights until it passes, but people would lose their shit if they did that, just as they do when the trains do the same.

    Of more interest is Manchester to Dublin diverted to Paris. I assume they would need to be held on the plane or at least airside as may not have documents to enter France...?
    I personally would rather my flight were cancelled in the event of stormy weather but I suppose why they don't is it opens up compensation claims?
  • Options
    It's Pot vs Kettle, innit?
    That a pair of senile, doddery old fuckers are the only choices for Leader Of The Free World tells us all we need to know about the current state of US politics and the nation in general.
    Whoever gets in, we'd better hope that their VP pick is sound, as I think America will be needing them before the next term is over.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,411
    One for @Leon - truly alien life form discovered.
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.01.20.576352v1.full.pdf

    In our gut.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,828
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Just in case anyone ever thinks of booking a flight with Ryanair - here’s what happens when there’s a storm, and one can’t help get the feeling that the airline operations department prioritised the positioning of the aircraft and crew, over the needs of the passengers on the weather-affected flights.

    That there were no hotels or taxis organised shouldn’t need to be stated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12991423/storm-isha-ryanair-chaos-passengers-stranded-delays-airline-diverts.html

    What do you expect, for £7.99
    you obviously have not flown Ryanair in many years, cost more than that to pick your seat
  • Options
    northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,504
    edited January 22
    HYUFD said:

    '@sonofr
    Rachel Reeves:
    "Britain is outside the European Union, the Single Market, the Customs Union, and Free Movement, and those things won't change under Labour."

    Well, Rachel, we may be desperate to get the Tories out, but we really don't need #BrexitLabour.

    Why are you ignoring the majority? You'll pay a heavy price - and so will we. GET A GRIP!'
    https://x.com/sonofr/status/1749367972550823965?s=20

    Hopefully it’ll be a ‘there’ll be no reform of the NHS’ until we get in and let Lansley loose to wreak havoc-type situation.

    I would love Labour, if they come to power, to sadly, but clearly and unequivocally, set out the damage Brexit has done. Because despite Rees-Mogg’s best efforts to find some, there certainly haven’t been any benefits for the vast, vast majority of people.

    The current government and client media certainly aren’t prepared to analyse the ever-higher pile of stories outlining damage to industries, businesses, trading, containing the euphemism de nos jours - ‘supply chain issues’.

    They certainly can’t bring themselves to even consider that a good chunk of the government’s polling woes may be related to the government delivering a steaming pile of shite that pleases no-one except the elderly and the fanatics. And even they’re not particularly overjoyed.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,650
    Nigelb said:

    This is a great thread.
    I think we should have more discussion of tailoring in cinema.
    https://twitter.com/dieworkwear/status/1749193687589142566

    (I agree with the thesis; Craig's Bond suits look awful.)

    I believe I have commented on this frequently, ranging from Ed Milliband's choice of tie, the ill-fit of Craig's suits in NTTD (before your thread!) and ranking the sexiness of military uniforms (Leon, being a silly with no knowledge base, thinks the Waffen SS were well dressed, to which the only response is to shake one's head, veil one's eyes and look downwards). There are entire books covering Bond suits.

    (Craig's started off very well but were not good towards the end. Like his films :) )
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,411
    Former Trump lawyer says it’s ‘absolutely’ possible former president will be convicted
    https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4421421-former-trump-lawyer-tacopina-conviction-possible/
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,828
    Nigelb said:

    It's Pot vs Kettle, innit?
    That a pair of senile, doddery old fuckers are the only choices for Leader Of The Free World tells us all we need to know about the current state of US politics and the nation in general.
    Whoever gets in, we'd better hope that their VP pick is sound, as I think America will be needing them before the next term is over.

    Not exactly.

    One of them still appears capable of running a reasonably competent administration.
    The other still able to hold large crowds spellbound.

    Two very different phenomena.
    Assumes the large crowds consist only of dumb clucks unable to tie their own shoelaces.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,411
    Ron DeSantis should be forced to carry his presidential campaign to term
    https://twitter.com/santiagomayer_/status/1749161142700646618
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,902
    edited January 22
    HYUFD said:

    '@sonofr
    Rachel Reeves:
    "Britain is outside the European Union, the Single Market, the Customs Union, and Free Movement, and those things won't change under Labour."

    Well, Rachel, we may be desperate to get the Tories out, but we really don't need #BrexitLabour.

    Why are you ignoring the majority? You'll pay a heavy price - and so will we. GET A GRIP!'
    https://x.com/sonofr/status/1749367972550823965?s=20

    Would be interesting to see what happened at the GE if the Tories got rid of Sunak tomorrow, and elected a Remain inclined MP, or Lord Cameron, as leader on a pledge to rejoin the EU. Would the FBPE types still vote Labour?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,411
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is a great thread.
    I think we should have more discussion of tailoring in cinema.
    https://twitter.com/dieworkwear/status/1749193687589142566

    (I agree with the thesis; Craig's Bond suits look awful.)

    I believe I have commented on this frequently, ranging from Ed Milliband's choice of tie, the ill-fit of Craig's suits in NTTD (before your thread!) and ranking the sexiness of military uniforms (Leon, being a silly with no knowledge base, thinks the Waffen SS were well dressed, to which the only response is to shake one's head, veil one's eyes and look downwards). There are entire books covering Bond suits.

    (Craig's started off very well but were not good towards the end. Like his films :) )
    He further comments...
    finding out how a suit should fit honestly ruined my life and I'm so glad i can share this knowledge with others
    https://twitter.com/dieworkwear/status/1749328680944632166
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,091
    ...
    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    '@sonofr
    Rachel Reeves:
    "Britain is outside the European Union, the Single Market, the Customs Union, and Free Movement, and those things won't change under Labour."

    Well, Rachel, we may be desperate to get the Tories out, but we really don't need #BrexitLabour.

    Why are you ignoring the majority? You'll pay a heavy price - and so will we. GET A GRIP!'
    https://x.com/sonofr/status/1749367972550823965?s=20

    Would be interesting to see what happened at the GE if the Tories got rid of Sunak tomorrow, and elected a Remain inclined MP, or Lord Cameron, as leader on a pledge to rejoin the EU. Would the FBPE types still vote Labour?
    No, a Conservative honeymoon landslide. I suspect it would unravel quite quickly thereafter. But a win is a win, keep that gravy train on the tracks.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,091
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    It could easily backfire badly, as others have already noted

    Risky

    Perhaps.

    But Trump does seem to at least caught up Biden on the mental capacity question. Some of Trump's speeches are outright weird.
    As I posted earlier, Biden has some moments of absolute clarity. Trump is a gibbering idiot without respite, and it's not new.

    Hands up if anyone remembers Trump explaining that the intravenous administration of Domestos into the bloodstream was a cure for COVID 19.
    Exacerbated by the fact Trump never has to argue anything out properly. He's used to having his inane ramblings greeted with either deference or applause. This means his ability to debate, to analyse, to reason, has not developed as it normally would, and now he's pushing 80 it's too late for this to change.
    It is a fate that befell Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Too many simpering sycophants fawning at his every nonsensical inverted pyramid of piffle.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,381
    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    It's Pot vs Kettle, innit?
    That a pair of senile, doddery old fuckers are the only choices for Leader Of The Free World tells us all we need to know about the current state of US politics and the nation in general.
    Whoever gets in, we'd better hope that their VP pick is sound, as I think America will be needing them before the next term is over.

    Not exactly.

    One of them still appears capable of running a reasonably competent administration.
    The other still able to hold large crowds spellbound.

    Two very different phenomena.
    Assumes the large crowds consist only of dumb clucks unable to tie their own shoelaces.
    As long as they wear slip-ons when they go to vote, that doesn't matter.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,938
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Just in case anyone ever thinks of booking a flight with Ryanair - here’s what happens when there’s a storm, and one can’t help get the feeling that the airline operations department prioritised the positioning of the aircraft and crew, over the needs of the passengers on the weather-affected flights.

    That there were no hotels or taxis organised shouldn’t need to be stated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12991423/storm-isha-ryanair-chaos-passengers-stranded-delays-airline-diverts.html

    Meh. Chaotic, rapidly changing conditions leads to travel chaos shock. The sensible thing to do would be to cancel all the flights until it passes, but people would lose their shit if they did that, just as they do when the trains do the same.

    Of more interest is Manchester to Dublin diverted to Paris. I assume they would need to be held on the plane or at least airside as may not have documents to enter France...?
    I personally would rather my flight were cancelled in the event of stormy weather but I suppose why they don't is it opens up compensation claims?
    I have unpleasant memories of flying into Alderney airport in a gale, when we didn’t seem far above the rocks! It’s a very small plane, too!
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,902
    edited January 22

    ...

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    '@sonofr
    Rachel Reeves:
    "Britain is outside the European Union, the Single Market, the Customs Union, and Free Movement, and those things won't change under Labour."

    Well, Rachel, we may be desperate to get the Tories out, but we really don't need #BrexitLabour.

    Why are you ignoring the majority? You'll pay a heavy price - and so will we. GET A GRIP!'
    https://x.com/sonofr/status/1749367972550823965?s=20

    Would be interesting to see what happened at the GE if the Tories got rid of Sunak tomorrow, and elected a Remain inclined MP, or Lord Cameron, as leader on a pledge to rejoin the EU. Would the FBPE types still vote Labour?
    No, a Conservative honeymoon landslide. I suspect it would unravel quite quickly thereafter. But a win is a win, keep that gravy train on the tracks.
    It sounds far fetched but after all, Sir Keir

    Stood on a pledge to accept the result ‘as a matter of principle’ in 2017

    On a pledge to campaign for Remain in a second referendum in 2019 ‘as a matter of principle’

    On a pledge to campaign for FOM in 2020

    and is ruling out having anything to do with an EU policy if he wins now

    So it can be done. The public seem to love it


  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,938
    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    '@sonofr
    Rachel Reeves:
    "Britain is outside the European Union, the Single Market, the Customs Union, and Free Movement, and those things won't change under Labour."

    Well, Rachel, we may be desperate to get the Tories out, but we really don't need #BrexitLabour.

    Why are you ignoring the majority? You'll pay a heavy price - and so will we. GET A GRIP!'
    https://x.com/sonofr/status/1749367972550823965?s=20

    Would be interesting to see what happened at the GE if the Tories got rid of Sunak tomorrow, and elected a Remain inclined MP, or Lord Cameron, as leader on a pledge to rejoin the EU. Would the FBPE types still vote Labour?
    It won’t happen before the election, but depending on who is left for the Tories, it might happen after the election. I suspect Reeves assurance won’t be worth the paper it’s not written on!
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,148
    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    It's Pot vs Kettle, innit?
    That a pair of senile, doddery old fuckers are the only choices for Leader Of The Free World tells us all we need to know about the current state of US politics and the nation in general.
    Whoever gets in, we'd better hope that their VP pick is sound, as I think America will be needing them before the next term is over.

    Not exactly.

    One of them still appears capable of running a reasonably competent administration.
    The other still able to hold large crowds spellbound.

    Two very different phenomena.
    Assumes the large crowds consist only of dumb clucks unable to tie their own shoelaces.
    Which they do.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,091
    isam said:

    ...

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    '@sonofr
    Rachel Reeves:
    "Britain is outside the European Union, the Single Market, the Customs Union, and Free Movement, and those things won't change under Labour."

    Well, Rachel, we may be desperate to get the Tories out, but we really don't need #BrexitLabour.

    Why are you ignoring the majority? You'll pay a heavy price - and so will we. GET A GRIP!'
    https://x.com/sonofr/status/1749367972550823965?s=20

    Would be interesting to see what happened at the GE if the Tories got rid of Sunak tomorrow, and elected a Remain inclined MP, or Lord Cameron, as leader on a pledge to rejoin the EU. Would the FBPE types still vote Labour?
    No, a Conservative honeymoon landslide. I suspect it would unravel quite quickly thereafter. But a win is a win, keep that gravy train on the tracks.
    It sounds far fetched but after all, Sir Keir

    Stood on a pledge to accept the result ‘as a matter of principle’ in 2017

    On a pledge to campaign for Remain in a second referendum in 2019 ‘as a matter of principle’

    On a pledge to campaign for FOM in 2020

    and is ruling out having anything to do with an EU policy if he wins now

    So it can be done. The public seem to love it


    On the other hand the Tories OWN Brexit and the party would implode. A purge of the Leavers would be required, unless you believe the Tories are so self-serving they would U turn on a scale never dreamed of by Starmer.
  • Options

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/22/tories-hire-coordinator-to-get-expat-supporters-to-vote-in-general-election

    'An extra 2.2 million overseas voters who have lived abroad for more than 15 years regained the right to vote in UK elections last Tuesday, after a statutory instrument that was approved by parliament in late December almost unnoticed came into force.


    The expansion means they will be able to register in the constituency of the last address at which they were resident if they are able to provide relevant documentation, or failing that, through local records or on the word of an eligible British resident.

    They will then be able to vote by proxy, with one proxy voter able to vote on behalf of as many as four overseas voters.

    The Electoral Commission raised concerns in response to an earlier consultation in 2016 that voters “might be tempted to choose a marginal seat they had once lived in rather than a safe seat even if it had not been the last address they lived at before leaving”.

    Concerns were also raised about the difficulty of checking information and the potential for fraud.'

    Tory efforts at gerrymandering are getting farcical. First they try to stop people who actually live here and pay taxes from voting over entirely imaginary risks of fraud, and then they open the way to actual fraud so that people who might not have lived here or paid tax in decades get a vote. Utterly pathetic.
    This will backfire. Tory Brexit deal made life harder for expats. Much harder for many. They will not vote for the people who trashed their dreams.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,868

    unless you believe the Tories are so self-serving they would U turn on a scale never dreamed of by Starmer.

    Were you not around for BoZo ?
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,091
    Scott_xP said:

    unless you believe the Tories are so self-serving they would U turn on a scale never dreamed of by Starmer.

    Were you not around for BoZo ?
    I was but Isam wants Starmer hung for accepting we are lumbered with Brexit and having to wind in Labour ambitions because the current Government have broken the bank.

    Isam is right that if the Tories went full on U turn for rejoin they would win, but how realistic is that? Besides which the EU, if they didn't tell us to do one, would shaft us like a drunken sailor.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    It could easily backfire badly, as others have already noted

    Risky

    Perhaps.

    But Trump does seem to at least caught up Biden on the mental capacity question. Some of Trump's speeches are outright weird.
    As I posted earlier, Biden has some moments of absolute clarity. Trump is a gibbering idiot without respite, and it's not new.

    Hands up if anyone remembers Trump explaining that the intravenous administration of Domestos into the bloodstream was a cure for COVID 19.
    Exacerbated by the fact Trump never has to argue anything out properly. He's used to having his inane ramblings greeted with either deference or applause. This means his ability to debate, to analyse, to reason, has not developed as it normally would, and now he's pushing 80 it's too late for this to change.
    It is a fate that befell Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Too many simpering sycophants fawning at his every nonsensical inverted pyramid of piffle.
    That's not really true though. Prime Ministers have to come to the Commons each week (mostly) for PMQs. They make statements on conferences and policy. They lead set-piece debates. They have to answer interjections and unexpected, and hostile, point-making and questions, and do so in a way that isn't obviously absurd, otherwise their own side loses confidence.

    Presidencies are very different to that, and the Trump presidency in particular.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,091
    edited January 22

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/22/tories-hire-coordinator-to-get-expat-supporters-to-vote-in-general-election

    'An extra 2.2 million overseas voters who have lived abroad for more than 15 years regained the right to vote in UK elections last Tuesday, after a statutory instrument that was approved by parliament in late December almost unnoticed came into force.


    The expansion means they will be able to register in the constituency of the last address at which they were resident if they are able to provide relevant documentation, or failing that, through local records or on the word of an eligible British resident.

    They will then be able to vote by proxy, with one proxy voter able to vote on behalf of as many as four overseas voters.

    The Electoral Commission raised concerns in response to an earlier consultation in 2016 that voters “might be tempted to choose a marginal seat they had once lived in rather than a safe seat even if it had not been the last address they lived at before leaving”.

    Concerns were also raised about the difficulty of checking information and the potential for fraud.'

    Tory efforts at gerrymandering are getting farcical. First they try to stop people who actually live here and pay taxes from voting over entirely imaginary risks of fraud, and then they open the way to actual fraud so that people who might not have lived here or paid tax in decades get a vote. Utterly pathetic.
    There was talk that many eligible South African voters that had never set foot on Blighty soil helped Mr Major out in 1992.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,381

    isam said:

    ...

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    '@sonofr
    Rachel Reeves:
    "Britain is outside the European Union, the Single Market, the Customs Union, and Free Movement, and those things won't change under Labour."

    Well, Rachel, we may be desperate to get the Tories out, but we really don't need #BrexitLabour.

    Why are you ignoring the majority? You'll pay a heavy price - and so will we. GET A GRIP!'
    https://x.com/sonofr/status/1749367972550823965?s=20

    Would be interesting to see what happened at the GE if the Tories got rid of Sunak tomorrow, and elected a Remain inclined MP, or Lord Cameron, as leader on a pledge to rejoin the EU. Would the FBPE types still vote Labour?
    No, a Conservative honeymoon landslide. I suspect it would unravel quite quickly thereafter. But a win is a win, keep that gravy train on the tracks.
    It sounds far fetched but after all, Sir Keir

    Stood on a pledge to accept the result ‘as a matter of principle’ in 2017

    On a pledge to campaign for Remain in a second referendum in 2019 ‘as a matter of principle’

    On a pledge to campaign for FOM in 2020

    and is ruling out having anything to do with an EU policy if he wins now

    So it can be done. The public seem to love it


    On the other hand the Tories OWN Brexit and the party would implode. A purge of the Leavers would be required, unless you believe the Tories are so self-serving they would U turn on a scale never dreamed of by Starmer.
    And if you purge the Conservatives of Leavers, who is left?

    (You can say the same of many of the other odd attitudes the party currently has adopted, of course. Which is why someone like Rishi is seen as unacceptably wet. The Boris and post-Boris parties really are a case study in the narcissism of small differences.)
  • Options
    MJWMJW Posts: 1,337

    It's Pot vs Kettle, innit?
    That a pair of senile, doddery old fuckers are the only choices for Leader Of The Free World tells us all we need to know about the current state of US politics and the nation in general.
    Whoever gets in, we'd better hope that their VP pick is sound, as I think America will be needing them before the next term is over.

    Arguably the main way it could backfire on Biden is if it's *too* successful. Some real Trump senior moments - which would likely be spectacular given his nature would perhaps be the excuse sane Republicans needed to dump him in favour of Haley - if she can stay in the race long enough. Then Biden is smashed by a much more vigorous opponent.

    Mind you, I suppose many (maybe even Biden himself if he's honest) who will be voting Democrat would take that rather than risk Trump Presidency 2.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,167
    It's the hope that kills you...



    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol


    Excellent, hard-headed pieces by @RonBrownstein (CNN) & @Timodc (Bulwark); discouraging NH polls.

    Still. All free-thinking NH Republicans and undeclared voters: Vote tomorrow (if you're not registered, you can register & vote) for Nikki.

    Birnam wood may yet come to Dunsinane!

  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,091

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    It could easily backfire badly, as others have already noted

    Risky

    Perhaps.

    But Trump does seem to at least caught up Biden on the mental capacity question. Some of Trump's speeches are outright weird.
    As I posted earlier, Biden has some moments of absolute clarity. Trump is a gibbering idiot without respite, and it's not new.

    Hands up if anyone remembers Trump explaining that the intravenous administration of Domestos into the bloodstream was a cure for COVID 19.
    Exacerbated by the fact Trump never has to argue anything out properly. He's used to having his inane ramblings greeted with either deference or applause. This means his ability to debate, to analyse, to reason, has not developed as it normally would, and now he's pushing 80 it's too late for this to change.
    It is a fate that befell Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Too many simpering sycophants fawning at his every nonsensical inverted pyramid of piffle.
    That's not really true though. Prime Ministers have to come to the Commons each week (mostly) for PMQs. They make statements on conferences and policy. They lead set-piece debates. They have to answer interjections and unexpected, and hostile, point-making and questions, and do so in a way that isn't obviously absurd, otherwise their own side loses confidence.

    Presidencies are very different to that, and the Trump presidency in particular.
    I see your point, but I disagree. Johnson had no capacity for thoughtful discourse at PMQs. Losing the argument meant a knee jerk response such as Starmer-Savile. The claim is Johnson is campaign genius, see EURef and GE 2019. Both were predicated on lies, nonsense and hiding in fridges. See also Peppa pig.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,167
    edited January 22

    On topic, Biden ought to start a narrative now that Trump will skip the debates because he's not mentally up to it and doesn't want to be exposed as such; that Trump will give all sorts of spurious reasons as to why he won't do them - rigged media, a protest against 2020, whatever - but the real reason is that he can't handle them.

    Obviously, there's risk in that but it almost certainly forces Trump to do them, at which point Biden has to (1) not screw up himself, and (2) has to catch Trump out. Both should be achievable - one trick might be to portray each ramble and rant as an inability to stick the point because he's forgotten what the point is.

    This. 1000x this.

    If there is any way, Trump will avoid the debates.

  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,148

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    It could easily backfire badly, as others have already noted

    Risky

    Perhaps.

    But Trump does seem to at least caught up Biden on the mental capacity question. Some of Trump's speeches are outright weird.
    As I posted earlier, Biden has some moments of absolute clarity. Trump is a gibbering idiot without respite, and it's not new.

    Hands up if anyone remembers Trump explaining that the intravenous administration of Domestos into the bloodstream was a cure for COVID 19.
    Exacerbated by the fact Trump never has to argue anything out properly. He's used to having his inane ramblings greeted with either deference or applause. This means his ability to debate, to analyse, to reason, has not developed as it normally would, and now he's pushing 80 it's too late for this to change.
    It is a fate that befell Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Too many simpering sycophants fawning at his every nonsensical inverted pyramid of piffle.
    Very true. Unchallenged entitlement often leads to a kind of freerolling slackness of speech and thought, which is something you don't want in politics. It does nobody any favours to allow a demagogue (Trump) or a clown (Johnson) free rein to indulge themselves. This applies to PB too, come to think of it. It's why (eg) Leon has to be given a dressing down periodically.
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    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,381

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    It could easily backfire badly, as others have already noted

    Risky

    Perhaps.

    But Trump does seem to at least caught up Biden on the mental capacity question. Some of Trump's speeches are outright weird.
    As I posted earlier, Biden has some moments of absolute clarity. Trump is a gibbering idiot without respite, and it's not new.

    Hands up if anyone remembers Trump explaining that the intravenous administration of Domestos into the bloodstream was a cure for COVID 19.
    Exacerbated by the fact Trump never has to argue anything out properly. He's used to having his inane ramblings greeted with either deference or applause. This means his ability to debate, to analyse, to reason, has not developed as it normally would, and now he's pushing 80 it's too late for this to change.
    It is a fate that befell Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Too many simpering sycophants fawning at his every nonsensical inverted pyramid of piffle.
    That's not really true though. Prime Ministers have to come to the Commons each week (mostly) for PMQs. They make statements on conferences and policy. They lead set-piece debates. They have to answer interjections and unexpected, and hostile, point-making and questions, and do so in a way that isn't obviously absurd, otherwise their own side loses confidence.

    Presidencies are very different to that, and the Trump presidency in particular.
    I see your point, but I disagree. Johnson had no capacity for thoughtful discourse at PMQs. Losing the argument meant a knee jerk response such as Starmer-Savile. The claim is Johnson is campaign genius, see EURef and GE 2019. Both were predicated on lies, nonsense and hiding in fridges. See also Peppa pig.
    Boris (fairly deliberately) missed out on a lot of that in his way up, though. Hardly any time as a minister answering Commons questions, and pretty poor against the not-exactly A Team bowling in the London Assembly.

    And his reputation as a sparkling speaker rather depended on his audience being half-cut on the sparkling stuff already.
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    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/22/tories-hire-coordinator-to-get-expat-supporters-to-vote-in-general-election

    'An extra 2.2 million overseas voters who have lived abroad for more than 15 years regained the right to vote in UK elections last Tuesday, after a statutory instrument that was approved by parliament in late December almost unnoticed came into force.


    The expansion means they will be able to register in the constituency of the last address at which they were resident if they are able to provide relevant documentation, or failing that, through local records or on the word of an eligible British resident.

    They will then be able to vote by proxy, with one proxy voter able to vote on behalf of as many as four overseas voters.

    The Electoral Commission raised concerns in response to an earlier consultation in 2016 that voters “might be tempted to choose a marginal seat they had once lived in rather than a safe seat even if it had not been the last address they lived at before leaving”.

    Concerns were also raised about the difficulty of checking information and the potential for fraud.'

    Tory efforts at gerrymandering are getting farcical. First they try to stop people who actually live here and pay taxes from voting over entirely imaginary risks of fraud, and then they open the way to actual fraud so that people who might not have lived here or paid tax in decades get a vote. Utterly pathetic.
    There was talk that many eligible South African voters that had never set foot on Blighty soil helped Mr Major out in 1992.
    Major won by 2.5 million votes, don’t go full Trump and believe any old bullshit you hear.
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    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    On topic. What concerns me is voters realising, the more of his mind Trump loses, the more electable he becomes. Vote for the Trump agenda, get actual technocrats delivering it free from the chaos and interference of last time.

    “And who are you? Are you my home help?”
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,091

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/22/tories-hire-coordinator-to-get-expat-supporters-to-vote-in-general-election

    'An extra 2.2 million overseas voters who have lived abroad for more than 15 years regained the right to vote in UK elections last Tuesday, after a statutory instrument that was approved by parliament in late December almost unnoticed came into force.


    The expansion means they will be able to register in the constituency of the last address at which they were resident if they are able to provide relevant documentation, or failing that, through local records or on the word of an eligible British resident.

    They will then be able to vote by proxy, with one proxy voter able to vote on behalf of as many as four overseas voters.

    The Electoral Commission raised concerns in response to an earlier consultation in 2016 that voters “might be tempted to choose a marginal seat they had once lived in rather than a safe seat even if it had not been the last address they lived at before leaving”.

    Concerns were also raised about the difficulty of checking information and the potential for fraud.'

    Tory efforts at gerrymandering are getting farcical. First they try to stop people who actually live here and pay taxes from voting over entirely imaginary risks of fraud, and then they open the way to actual fraud so that people who might not have lived here or paid tax in decades get a vote. Utterly pathetic.
    There was talk that many eligible South African voters that had never set foot on Blighty soil helped Mr Major out in 1992.
    Major won by 2.5 million votes, don’t go full Trump and believe any old bullshit you hear.
    Don't shoot the messenger. Anyway it is an urban myth that isn't easy to source on the internet these days.

    Tell me you wouldn't put the post Mrs May iteration of the Conservative Party past endorsing any old bollocks that might find them a bonus vote.
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