💥 These switchers have left the Tories "for good", furious at lack of delivery of promises in 14 years of govt
💥 Rishi Sunak has gone from a breath of fresh air a year ago to "typical politician who never answers a question", "out of touch", "spineless", and "false"
💥 Sunak's new year election visits have been noticed - and have gone down like a cup of cold sick ("oily", "staged", PM "full of himself")
💥 Tax cuts viewed as a "sweetener" just to get votes
💥 Keir Starmer seen as "weak", "spineless", "unchallenging", "boring" and - above all else - as having "no plan". They are voting Labour *despite* Keir Starmer rather than because of him. Lack of plan/square one attack by Sunak was the only clip that went down well
💥 The person who got the best reception - and is a threat to both parties - is Nigel Farage, seen as "relatable", "strong", shown to be "in touch" by time in the jungle. All bar one said they would vote for Nigel Farage if they had the chance
💥 Tory win would leave people "gutted", Labour win a mix of "worried" and "hopeful". Hard to argue that - as the polling of direct switchers shows - these voters are coming back to the Conservatives any time soon
It seems to me that the DPP is attacked for prosecuting people and attacked for not prosecuting people. Can't win, eh?
On a completely unrelated note, I have had much to say over the years about the epic disaster that is BT Group but Openreach's FTTP rollout has been extraordinary, surely one of the fastest in history of any country, which is a real credit to their engineering teams and also to Ofcom who provided a good regulatory environment finally that encouraged/forced them to do it. It is a shame it took so long but I have nothing but good things to say about both organisations now.
To put this into context, Openreach currently cover 60,000 premises a week with their rollout and will hit another 1 million premises covered in total in just Q1 this year, another new record. These rates surpass countries like Germany, Spain and France.
At the moment they are well on track to hit their aim of 25 million premises covered by 2026 and they have now said they will continue building "after", which suggests to me that they will eventually cover everyone with a mix of private and public subsidy. And for once I think I am supportive of them getting most of it as they seem to be doing the best job.
And yet their record on connecting the countryside to FTTP - which is the real issue that has existed for years - is pretty abysmal. I am not talking just about remote properties but relatively large villages.
Their forward plans show they will not reach most of the countryside outside the major towns until at least the end of 2026. And even then it looks like they will miss much of that target.
These billions will tun out to be a vast unnecessary cost anyway, totally overtaken by satellite systems such as Starlink. Just give the last 10% a Starlink kit and subsidised monthly fee.
Fibre is always better, if it can be done for a reasonable cost.
OneWeb is exactly for the last few percent where this is not true - they sell backhaul. The idea is that (say) you set up a 5G phone mast, with the connection to the rest of the planet via OneWeb satellites. So, suddenly a remote Scottish island (say) has high(ish) speed internet.
Yep. Which is not the case with most of the areas that are still waiting (and will be waiting for many years I suspect) for connection. Our village is 2000 people equi-distant between two towns about 10 miles to each along an A Road. This is not really anywhere near remote. The same goes for the vast majority of places listed on the Openreach plans.
If they were to say that fibre is simply too expensive for most of the country outside the towns and cities then so be it. I can accept that argument. But they are paying vast sums of money to Openreach to connect us all up and they seem to be picking all the low hanging fruit whilst leaving the vast majority of places outside the towns to the very end of their forecast period. Does anyone seriously believe that is realistic?
Yes, picking the low-hanging fruit is sensible first, you can then build on that to complete the rest later.
Connecting your village makes sense from the way you've described it to be done only after the towns that you're between have been done and that's going to be the case with almost all villages surely?
Going for where you get the most return on your investment first makes sense.
Its the Pareto Principle in action.
Yes its sensible but my point is their promises are clearly unrealistic. And many of these towns already had fibre connection. The Openreach programme was specifically to target those parts of the country that were not yet connected and where the commercial imperative would never be sufficient. Hence all that public money. The towns (including both referenced in my posting) already have full fibre from other commercial operators and have had for several years.
Since Openreach provide the backhaul of almost all commercial operators, I'm curious which other commercial operators you are referring to and what percentage of those towns they actually reached?
For instance I know from personal experience that firms like Virgin which had started a fiber rollout in many towns then largely abandoned it, perhaps in part as everyone else was waiting for Openreach, and wouldn't even hook up new builds even in towns where they were already "present".
A new build I lived in 14 years ago was in a town that Virgin advertised they were operating in but when we enquired about getting a connection they told us that our property being new was not eligible and they had no intention of connecting it. My new build we moved into 13 months ago had Openreach installed as part of construction before we even moved into the property.
Openreach when making connections in towns aren't just reaching some parts of those towns, they're doing it far more comprehensive and new properties are getting added to Openreach too, so it makes sense for Openreach to go everywhere since that is the backhaul almost everyone is using - and since lots of properties in towns others are at are just as much part of a desert otherwise as your village is. If you want fiber it doesn't help you that a home two streets over has it if you can't get it.
The fibre provider is Netomnia, who are apparently competely separate from Openreach and Virgin and provide their own fibre networks. At least according to their own blurb.
Which is less that a single big sized town. Though they have dozens of dots on their map, so 210k divided by dozens ... it intuitively doesn't feel like they're reaching 100% of every town they "reach". Probably cherrypicked the easy to reach ones who would subscribe and that's about it.
Openreach should be rolling out to everyone, that's the difference.
It must also be noted that the first firm of solicitors appointed to defend Seema Misra, as well as the barrister, were wholly unaware of the complexities of the Horizon system, and did not appear to have even considered that the Horizon system might have been at fault.
And the prosecution knew it was at fault
“A senior Post Office solicitor was told about dozens of issues with the computer system just days before a pregnant sub-postmistress was convicted, the Post Office Inquiry heard this week.
Rob Wilson, former head of criminal prosecutions, received an email on 8 October 2010 stating that ‘discrepancies’ with the Horizon IT system had been detected at 40 branches. This bug had caused an apparent loss of £20,000 to show up on the system.
Wilson forwarded the email and its contents to two solicitor colleagues, Jarnail Singh and Juliet McFarlane, but did not disclose it to defence solicitors or defendants. All three solicitors have been reported to the Solicitors Regulation Authority, although any potential disciplinary proceedings against them have been put on hold at the request of the inquiry.“
But did these Post Office lawyers tell Starmer or the CPS?
Not everything is about Sir Keir, give it a rest!
Pretty astonishing that they were trying people when they knew the system was to blame rather than just thinking it was infallible
well the first comment in this thread ended 'If this is the case Starmer should be safe' which you replied to with 'The Seema Misra case was CPS'
It's gotta be a joke when you of all people tell me 'Not everything is about Sir Keir, give it a rest!', especially as I have probably made less than half a dozen comments about Starmer in my life, whereas you seem to make dozens every day.
But seriously, I don't know if Starmer's record as DPP is good, bad or indifferent, but trying to pin the PO scandal on him seems a massive stretch. There must be other things the CPS did or didn't do while he was DPP where there is a much stronger case against him.
Does anyone think Ed Davey will resign? I think he may do.
The LibDems on here will howl me down as a Tory stooge, but looked at as objectively as I can, I think he is in some real difficulty.
We are in an election year. This issue has come from nowhere (who thought Davey was in any difficulty 2 weeks ago?) and the issue causing him a problem is likely to have a serious impact on the political weather through to the election. Now, partly that may feed into an anti-government sentiment ("everything is broken!"). But it will focus down on individuals too.
As much as anybody knows anything about Davey, it is now first and foremost that "he has questions to answer over the PO fiasco". So he was lied to. But was he too incurious? Too gullible? Both big faults in a party leader.
The LibDem message going into the election is woefully thin, but such as it is depends on being "better than the Tories". A harder sell with Davey at the helm. He is also boxed in. He has to go quickly - or not at all. He can't say "I will step down after the election". Partly because that gives a good reason not to vote for him anyway. The last thing the LibDems need is to lose their leader at two elections in a row. But his voters have already thrown him out in 2015. Their love is not deep. A candidature against him by a wronged SPM is likely to attract the very voters the LibDems rely on.
The LibDems here will be better placed than me to know if Daisy (or another) is ready to step up as leader. But at least she has the benefit of not being "pale, male and stale" (although neither was Jo Swinson). But at least on the issue of the SPM's, she is at least a clean pair of hands and the Party can move on to more easily making the case "better than the Tories".
Davey is one of the genuine nice guys of politics. He has a genuine backstory and more depth than a lot of politicians.
His issue has been, is, and will continue to be that quiet politicians struggle to be heard. Take yesterday as an example. Having been fingered as the only minister to have met Alan Bates responsible, he was further attacked for being absent from the Commons.
Because childcare for his severely disabled son was cancelled at short notice. So he looked after the boy. The Daily Heil even has a heavily cropped photo of Davey getting the adapted tricycle out in its attack.
Is there any point trying to explain that? People willing to consider the lives of other people would be interested. But the lie is already the new truth, so what's the point?
Starlink will never be an alternative to fibre. Never.
Was for me. Been brilliant for a year now. No idea when fibre optic will reach me. Certainly not soon.
And the idea of a single mast providing coverage doesn't work well for those hidden away in the Devon valleys.
It will never be able to compete with fibre, as an infill in limited situations it can be useful but on a country-basis, never ever.
It will not be able to keep up with the increase in bandwidth, only fibre can do that.
My installers tell me that Starlink will be up to 300 Mbps within a couple of years. That should do for the 10% of most distant properties.
How much would you be prepared to spend to link up those 10%? Or do you just write them off as "too difficult to connect"?
Within 10 years that will be unable to keep up with demand.
As I said, you use it as an infill solution but FTTP can easily cover 99% of properties if there is will to do so. Openreach has shown this (as have others), by using existing infrastructure.
Starlink will never be an alternative to fibre. Never.
Works for me. A shit ton faster than FTTC.
FTTC is not fibre though, that was a failure of the ASA to get a handle on it.
Well my choices are FTTC, cellular, or Starlink. And Starlink has transformed my work capabilities. There are tens of millions of us who will never get the opportunity for FTTP. Never.
Starlink will never be an alternative to fibre. Never.
Works for me. A shit ton faster than FTTC.
FTTC is not fibre though, that was a failure of the ASA to get a handle on it.
Well my choices are FTTC, cellular, or Starlink. And Starlink has transformed my work capabilities. There are tens of millions of us who will never get the opportunity for FTTP. Never.
I think by 2030 the people that can't get FTTP will be vanishingly small. For what you need right now I'd do what you've done but my point remains, it will never be able to compete with FTTP and long term it will fail to keep up with demand, it is a stop-gap solution.
Agree. And pretty clear to me Farage will be the Tory leader and probably PM by 2030.
As amusing as this would be, how does it happen? Lay out the sequence of events. He's not even a member.
The man you seek is here. I stand before you, Nigel Farage, torn from GB News. O you who were alone in taking pity on the unutterable trials of tories
(apolgies to Virgil)
It's going to need and absolute Tory wipe-out at the GE, Farage selected as a Tory candidate at a by-election, winning the seat (at the 8th attempt), the rump of Tory MPs selecting him in a top two, then a massive Tory recovery, the like of which we've never seen before.
Given that the CP is persona non grata and Starmer and Davey may (unfairly) be linked to this scandal this is a massive opportunity for Reform isn't it?
Does anyone think Ed Davey will resign? I think he may do.
The LibDems on here will howl me down as a Tory stooge, but looked at as objectively as I can, I think he is in some real difficulty.
We are in an election year. This issue has come from nowhere (who thought Davey was in any difficulty 2 weeks ago?) and the issue causing him a problem is likely to have a serious impact on the political weather through to the election. Now, partly that may feed into an anti-government sentiment ("everything is broken!"). But it will focus down on individuals too.
As much as anybody knows anything about Davey, it is now first and foremost that "he has questions to answer over the PO fiasco". So he was lied to. But was he too incurious? Too gullible? Both big faults in a party leader.
The LibDem message going into the election is woefully thin, but such as it is depends on being "better than the Tories". A harder sell with Davey at the helm. He is also boxed in. He has to go quickly - or not at all. He can't say "I will step down after the election". Partly because that gives a good reason not to vote for him anyway. The last thing the LibDems need is to lose their leader at two elections in a row. But his voters have already thrown him out in 2015. Their love is not deep. A candidature against him by a wronged SPM is likely to attract the very voters the LibDems rely on.
The LibDems here will be better placed than me to know if Daisy (or another) is ready to step up as leader. But at least she has the benefit of not being "pale, male and stale" (although neither was Jo Swinson). But at least on the issue of the SPM's, she is at least a clean pair of hands and the Party can move on to more easily making the case "better than the Tories".
That's all fine (and I'm no Davey fan) but you miss the point that the opposition parties don't even have to sell 'better than the Tories' this time. 'Not the Tories' is sufficient. LD will do well where they are the obvious not the Tories candidate - there's no reason to expect them to do particularly well elsewhere.
If the 'independents' get tracking in Davey's seat then that could be interesting, but would need a strong candidate - I don't know whether she is - with a good story and proper appeal.
Does anyone think Ed Davey will resign? I think he may do.
The LibDems on here will howl me down as a Tory stooge, but looked at as objectively as I can, I think he is in some real difficulty.
We are in an election year. This issue has come from nowhere (who thought Davey was in any difficulty 2 weeks ago?) and the issue causing him a problem is likely to have a serious impact on the political weather through to the election. Now, partly that may feed into an anti-government sentiment ("everything is broken!"). But it will focus down on individuals too.
As much as anybody knows anything about Davey, it is now first and foremost that "he has questions to answer over the PO fiasco". So he was lied to. But was he too incurious? Too gullible? Both big faults in a party leader.
The LibDem message going into the election is woefully thin, but such as it is depends on being "better than the Tories". A harder sell with Davey at the helm. He is also boxed in. He has to go quickly - or not at all. He can't say "I will step down after the election". Partly because that gives a good reason not to vote for him anyway. The last thing the LibDems need is to lose their leader at two elections in a row. But his voters have already thrown him out in 2015. Their love is not deep. A candidature against him by a wronged SPM is likely to attract the very voters the LibDems rely on.
The LibDems here will be better placed than me to know if Daisy (or another) is ready to step up as leader. But at least she has the benefit of not being "pale, male and stale" (although neither was Jo Swinson). But at least on the issue of the SPM's, she is at least a clean pair of hands and the Party can move on to more easily making the case "better than the Tories".
As one who worked for the old Liberal Party in the Thorpe years and afterwards, and who has since frequently voted LibDem, I agree that Davey would be wise to step back. Doing so is the right thing to do, although like many judges he can reasonably claim he was lied to by the Post Office senior management. It is to be hoped that before too long that senior management is standing in the dock at the Old Bailey.
It must also be noted that the first firm of solicitors appointed to defend Seema Misra, as well as the barrister, were wholly unaware of the complexities of the Horizon system, and did not appear to have even considered that the Horizon system might have been at fault.
And the prosecution knew it was at fault
“A senior Post Office solicitor was told about dozens of issues with the computer system just days before a pregnant sub-postmistress was convicted, the Post Office Inquiry heard this week.
Rob Wilson, former head of criminal prosecutions, received an email on 8 October 2010 stating that ‘discrepancies’ with the Horizon IT system had been detected at 40 branches. This bug had caused an apparent loss of £20,000 to show up on the system.
Wilson forwarded the email and its contents to two solicitor colleagues, Jarnail Singh and Juliet McFarlane, but did not disclose it to defence solicitors or defendants. All three solicitors have been reported to the Solicitors Regulation Authority, although any potential disciplinary proceedings against them have been put on hold at the request of the inquiry.“
But did these Post Office lawyers tell Starmer or the CPS?
Not everything is about Sir Keir, give it a rest!
Pretty astonishing that they were trying people when they knew the system was to blame rather than just thinking it was infallible
well the first comment in this thread ended 'If this is the case Starmer should be safe' which you replied to with 'The Seema Misra case was CPS'
It's gotta be a joke when you of all people tell me 'Not everything is about Sir Keir, give it a rest!', especially as I have probably made less than half a dozen comments about Starmer in my life, whereas you seem to make dozens every day.
But seriously, I don't know if Starmer's record as DPP is good, bad or indifferent, but trying to pin the PO scandal on him seems a massive stretch. There must be other things the CPS did or didn't do while he was DPP where there is a much stronger case against him.
Yes it was a joke, of course
Also, I think it is unclear how involved the CPS were in the Misra conviction. The person on Twitter who originally thought Sir Keir could be implicated because of it, Rupert Myers, deleted the tweets because there is some uncertainty
💥 These switchers have left the Tories "for good", furious at lack of delivery of promises in 14 years of govt
💥 Rishi Sunak has gone from a breath of fresh air a year ago to "typical politician who never answers a question", "out of touch", "spineless", and "false"
💥 Sunak's new year election visits have been noticed - and have gone down like a cup of cold sick ("oily", "staged", PM "full of himself")
💥 Tax cuts viewed as a "sweetener" just to get votes
💥 Keir Starmer seen as "weak", "spineless", "unchallenging", "boring" and - above all else - as having "no plan". They are voting Labour *despite* Keir Starmer rather than because of him. Lack of plan/square one attack by Sunak was the only clip that went down well
💥 The person who got the best reception - and is a threat to both parties - is Nigel Farage, seen as "relatable", "strong", shown to be "in touch" by time in the jungle. All bar one said they would vote for Nigel Farage if they had the chance
💥 Tory win would leave people "gutted", Labour win a mix of "worried" and "hopeful". Hard to argue that - as the polling of direct switchers shows - these voters are coming back to the Conservatives any time soon
It's going to be a landslide, for the first time that is my central prediction.
Agree. And pretty clear to me Farage will be the Tory leader and probably PM by 2030.
Nah, as I said earlier this focus group isn't representative of Con-Lab switchers and Starmer's coalition (before and after the next GE) isn't that vulnerable to Farage.
Sunder Katwala @sundersays Farage is less popular than this, with Conservatives generally, and Con to Lab switchers. So this sub segment exists, but is not typical if C to Lab switchers. There were modest but not transformative gains within net disapproval of the celebrity TV appearances
There was a good thread by Beyond Topline (which has now suddenly disappeared) as well which showed that Con-Lab switchers actually like Starmer, too.
Does anyone think Ed Davey will resign? I think he may do.
Bound too. All leaders do in the end (officially at least, even those really sacked)
But before some fairly substantial LD gains at the GE and the possibility of being third party again with more PMQs questions etc? I don't see it. Unless he is both a man of principle and also believes he has done wrong.
A small number die in office and an even smaller number are actually sacked (I think IDS may be the only such case of the latter; Heath and Thatcher both withdrew from their leadership contests in 1975 / 1990 respectively, from hopeless positions). In addition, Ramsay MacDonald was expelled from Labour while leader, which is arguably an even more exclusive club given the lack of near-members, unlike the not-quite-sacked outer circle.
Starlink will never be an alternative to fibre. Never.
Was for me. Been brilliant for a year now. No idea when fibre optic will reach me. Certainly not soon.
And the idea of a single mast providing coverage doesn't work well for those hidden away in the Devon valleys.
Then you put up a network of local masts. Or run fibre from the backhaul point.
Run the fibre how? Run it along roads that are already pot-hole riven and where the edge of the road gets destroyed with every winter storm?
I'm no fan of Musk the Man, but his system works for those distant to infrastructure.
The point is that in many cases, people won't have any idea that they are using an LEO consolation as backhaul. The internet infrastructure they connect to will be connected to satellite.
A number will require/want a direct connection. But many more don't need it.
In parts of Africa and the Third World, satellite backhaul will rapidly take over. No long ground cables to protect, maintain or install.
By the way, I don't know if it's been mentioned downthread but the Wellingborough / Kingswood by-election writs have been moved and both are likely to be 15 Feb.
Starlink will never be an alternative to fibre. Never.
Works for me. A shit ton faster than FTTC.
FTTC is not fibre though, that was a failure of the ASA to get a handle on it.
Well my choices are FTTC, cellular, or Starlink. And Starlink has transformed my work capabilities. There are tens of millions of us who will never get the opportunity for FTTP. Never.
I think by 2030 the people that can't get FTTP will be vanishingly small. For what you need right now I'd do what you've done but my point remains, it will never be able to compete with FTTP and long term it will fail to keep up with demand, it is a stop-gap solution.
It sounds great! But who will install it? Back on Teesside our estate sat in a black hole on the Openreach map. We didn't exist on the FTTP rollout map (which was surveyed before they built the estate). That meant they were happy to install phone lines but not FTTP as the homes using their phone lines didn't exist.
There will need to be a huge investment made to install infrastructure. Openreach said no - and would not be argued with even if you could speak to someone. Virgin media then cabled the estate. Main runs only. If you were on the little artificial 3/4 house culdesacs on the corners you were missed out. Cost too much to lay a branch cable for a few houses. No, you couldn't complain.
This is reality for millions on millions of people. If you think these commercial realities will either change - or be subsidised to change - by 2030 I'm afraid you are dreaming.
Does anyone think Ed Davey will resign? I think he may do.
The LibDems on here will howl me down as a Tory stooge, but looked at as objectively as I can, I think he is in some real difficulty.
We are in an election year. This issue has come from nowhere (who thought Davey was in any difficulty 2 weeks ago?) and the issue causing him a problem is likely to have a serious impact on the political weather through to the election. Now, partly that may feed into an anti-government sentiment ("everything is broken!"). But it will focus down on individuals too.
As much as anybody knows anything about Davey, it is now first and foremost that "he has questions to answer over the PO fiasco". So he was lied to. But was he too incurious? Too gullible? Both big faults in a party leader.
The LibDem message going into the election is woefully thin, but such as it is depends on being "better than the Tories". A harder sell with Davey at the helm. He is also boxed in. He has to go quickly - or not at all. He can't say "I will step down after the election". Partly because that gives a good reason not to vote for him anyway. The last thing the LibDems need is to lose their leader at two elections in a row. But his voters have already thrown him out in 2015. Their love is not deep. A candidature against him by a wronged SPM is likely to attract the very voters the LibDems rely on.
The LibDems here will be better placed than me to know if Daisy (or another) is ready to step up as leader. But at least she has the benefit of not being "pale, male and stale" (although neither was Jo Swinson). But at least on the issue of the SPM's, she is at least a clean pair of hands and the Party can move on to more easily making the case "better than the Tories".
Davey is one of the genuine nice guys of politics. He has a genuine backstory and more depth than a lot of politicians.
His issue has been, is, and will continue to be that quiet politicians struggle to be heard. Take yesterday as an example. Having been fingered as the only minister to have met Alan Bates responsible, he was further attacked for being absent from the Commons.
Because childcare for his severely disabled son was cancelled at short notice. So he looked after the boy. The Daily Heil even has a heavily cropped photo of Davey getting the adapted tricycle out in its attack.
Is there any point trying to explain that? People willing to consider the lives of other people would be interested. But the lie is already the new truth, so what's the point?
This is all true. The problem is that Sir Ed comes across, in so far as he comes across at all, as the greyer, less charismatic, little brother of Sir Keir.
The LibDems surely need someone who is distinctive, with a bit of pizzazz, or humour, or something.
Not a suit who''s now best known for his association with one of the grubbiest episodes in public life - however unfair that may be.
It seems to me that the DPP is attacked for prosecuting people and attacked for not prosecuting people. Can't win, eh?
On a completely unrelated note, I have had much to say over the years about the epic disaster that is BT Group but Openreach's FTTP rollout has been extraordinary, surely one of the fastest in history of any country, which is a real credit to their engineering teams and also to Ofcom who provided a good regulatory environment finally that encouraged/forced them to do it. It is a shame it took so long but I have nothing but good things to say about both organisations now.
To put this into context, Openreach currently cover 60,000 premises a week with their rollout and will hit another 1 million premises covered in total in just Q1 this year, another new record. These rates surpass countries like Germany, Spain and France.
At the moment they are well on track to hit their aim of 25 million premises covered by 2026 and they have now said they will continue building "after", which suggests to me that they will eventually cover everyone with a mix of private and public subsidy. And for once I think I am supportive of them getting most of it as they seem to be doing the best job.
And yet their record on connecting the countryside to FTTP - which is the real issue that has existed for years - is pretty abysmal. I am not talking just about remote properties but relatively large villages.
Their forward plans show they will not reach most of the countryside outside the major towns until at least the end of 2026. And even then it looks like they will miss much of that target.
These billions will tun out to be a vast unnecessary cost anyway, totally overtaken by satellite systems such as Starlink. Just give the last 10% a Starlink kit and subsidised monthly fee.
Fibre is always better, if it can be done for a reasonable cost.
OneWeb is exactly for the last few percent where this is not true - they sell backhaul. The idea is that (say) you set up a 5G phone mast, with the connection to the rest of the planet via OneWeb satellites. So, suddenly a remote Scottish island (say) has high(ish) speed internet.
Yep. Which is not the case with most of the areas that are still waiting (and will be waiting for many years I suspect) for connection. Our village is 2000 people equi-distant between two towns about 10 miles to each along an A Road. This is not really anywhere near remote. The same goes for the vast majority of places listed on the Openreach plans.
If they were to say that fibre is simply too expensive for most of the country outside the towns and cities then so be it. I can accept that argument. But they are paying vast sums of money to Openreach to connect us all up and they seem to be picking all the low hanging fruit whilst leaving the vast majority of places outside the towns to the very end of their forecast period. Does anyone seriously believe that is realistic?
Yes, picking the low-hanging fruit is sensible first, you can then build on that to complete the rest later.
Connecting your village makes sense from the way you've described it to be done only after the towns that you're between have been done and that's going to be the case with almost all villages surely?
Going for where you get the most return on your investment first makes sense.
Its the Pareto Principle in action.
Yes its sensible but my point is their promises are clearly unrealistic. And many of these towns already had fibre connection. The Openreach programme was specifically to target those parts of the country that were not yet connected and where the commercial imperative would never be sufficient. Hence all that public money. The towns (including both referenced in my posting) already have full fibre from other commercial operators and have had for several years.
Since Openreach provide the backhaul of almost all commercial operators, I'm curious which other commercial operators you are referring to and what percentage of those towns they actually reached?
For instance I know from personal experience that firms like Virgin which had started a fiber rollout in many towns then largely abandoned it, perhaps in part as everyone else was waiting for Openreach, and wouldn't even hook up new builds even in towns where they were already "present".
A new build I lived in 14 years ago was in a town that Virgin advertised they were operating in but when we enquired about getting a connection they told us that our property being new was not eligible and they had no intention of connecting it. My new build we moved into 13 months ago had Openreach installed as part of construction before we even moved into the property.
Openreach when making connections in towns aren't just reaching some parts of those towns, they're doing it far more comprehensive and new properties are getting added to Openreach too, so it makes sense for Openreach to go everywhere since that is the backhaul almost everyone is using - and since lots of properties in towns others are at are just as much part of a desert otherwise as your village is. If you want fiber it doesn't help you that a home two streets over has it if you can't get it.
The fibre provider is Netomnia, who are apparently competely separate from Openreach and Virgin and provide their own fibre networks. At least according to their own blurb.
Which is less that a single big sized town. Though they have dozens of dots on their map, so 210k divided by dozens ... it intuitively doesn't feel like they're reaching 100% of every town they "reach". Probably cherrypicked the easy to reach ones who would subscribe and that's about it.
Openreach should be rolling out to everyone, that's the difference.
'Should' and when? Their plans are completely unrealistic given the current progress. I am due to get it end of 2026 - along with the majority of the listed settlements in their published plans. Somehow we are supposed to believe that having taken a decade to reach 12 million homes, they will do the other 12 million in 3 years? And as you say, they picked the easy ones first.
Does anyone think Ed Davey will resign? I think he may do.
The LibDems on here will howl me down as a Tory stooge, but looked at as objectively as I can, I think he is in some real difficulty.
We are in an election year. This issue has come from nowhere (who thought Davey was in any difficulty 2 weeks ago?) and the issue causing him a problem is likely to have a serious impact on the political weather through to the election. Now, partly that may feed into an anti-government sentiment ("everything is broken!"). But it will focus down on individuals too.
As much as anybody knows anything about Davey, it is now first and foremost that "he has questions to answer over the PO fiasco". So he was lied to. But was he too incurious? Too gullible? Both big faults in a party leader.
The LibDem message going into the election is woefully thin, but such as it is depends on being "better than the Tories". A harder sell with Davey at the helm. He is also boxed in. He has to go quickly - or not at all. He can't say "I will step down after the election". Partly because that gives a good reason not to vote for him anyway. The last thing the LibDems need is to lose their leader at two elections in a row. But his voters have already thrown him out in 2015. Their love is not deep. A candidature against him by a wronged SPM is likely to attract the very voters the LibDems rely on.
The LibDems here will be better placed than me to know if Daisy (or another) is ready to step up as leader. But at least she has the benefit of not being "pale, male and stale" (although neither was Jo Swinson). But at least on the issue of the SPM's, she is at least a clean pair of hands and the Party can move on to more easily making the case "better than the Tories".
That's all fine (and I'm no Davey fan) but you miss the point that the opposition parties don't even have to sell 'better than the Tories' this time. 'Not the Tories' is sufficient. LD will do well where they are the obvious not the Tories candidate - there's no reason to expect them to do particularly well elsewhere.
If the 'independents' get tracking in Davey's seat then that could be interesting, but would need a strong candidate - I don't know whether she is - with a good story and proper appeal.
We also have to poke a stick at the independent. There are some genuine independents. So many are actually Tory / Labour splitters. The Kingston indies are Tory splitters. So they may attract votes - from the Tories...
Agree. And pretty clear to me Farage will be the Tory leader and probably PM by 2030.
As amusing as this would be, how does it happen? Lay out the sequence of events. He's not even a member.
The man you seek is here. I stand before you, Nigel Farage, torn from GB News. O you who were alone in taking pity on the unutterable trials of tories
(apolgies to Virgil)
Labour landslide. Tory membership head scratching and rejection of their own current (and recent pass) failures. King of the Water comes along as saviour, joins and wins a by election. Takes out leader silly enough to let him back in.
Does anyone think Ed Davey will resign? I think he may do.
The LibDems on here will howl me down as a Tory stooge, but looked at as objectively as I can, I think he is in some real difficulty.
We are in an election year. This issue has come from nowhere (who thought Davey was in any difficulty 2 weeks ago?) and the issue causing him a problem is likely to have a serious impact on the political weather through to the election. Now, partly that may feed into an anti-government sentiment ("everything is broken!"). But it will focus down on individuals too.
As much as anybody knows anything about Davey, it is now first and foremost that "he has questions to answer over the PO fiasco". So he was lied to. But was he too incurious? Too gullible? Both big faults in a party leader.
The LibDem message going into the election is woefully thin, but such as it is depends on being "better than the Tories". A harder sell with Davey at the helm. He is also boxed in. He has to go quickly - or not at all. He can't say "I will step down after the election". Partly because that gives a good reason not to vote for him anyway. The last thing the LibDems need is to lose their leader at two elections in a row. But his voters have already thrown him out in 2015. Their love is not deep. A candidature against him by a wronged SPM is likely to attract the very voters the LibDems rely on.
The LibDems here will be better placed than me to know if Daisy (or another) is ready to step up as leader. But at least she has the benefit of not being "pale, male and stale" (although neither was Jo Swinson). But at least on the issue of the SPM's, she is at least a clean pair of hands and the Party can move on to more easily making the case "better than the Tories".
As one who worked for the old Liberal Party in the Thorpe years and afterwards, and who has since frequently voted LibDem, I agree that Davey would be wise to step back. Doing so is the right thing to do, although like many judges he can reasonably claim he was lied to by the Post Office senior management. It is to be hoped that before too long that senior management is standing in the dock at the Old Bailey.
Sir Ed Davey has another escape route. He could renounce his Sir-hood, just as Paula Vennells has un-CBE'd herself. That might show enough remorse to keep him in place as leader.
Does anyone think Ed Davey will resign? I think he may do.
The LibDems on here will howl me down as a Tory stooge, but looked at as objectively as I can, I think he is in some real difficulty.
We are in an election year. This issue has come from nowhere (who thought Davey was in any difficulty 2 weeks ago?) and the issue causing him a problem is likely to have a serious impact on the political weather through to the election. Now, partly that may feed into an anti-government sentiment ("everything is broken!"). But it will focus down on individuals too.
As much as anybody knows anything about Davey, it is now first and foremost that "he has questions to answer over the PO fiasco". So he was lied to. But was he too incurious? Too gullible? Both big faults in a party leader.
The LibDem message going into the election is woefully thin, but such as it is depends on being "better than the Tories". A harder sell with Davey at the helm. He is also boxed in. He has to go quickly - or not at all. He can't say "I will step down after the election". Partly because that gives a good reason not to vote for him anyway. The last thing the LibDems need is to lose their leader at two elections in a row. But his voters have already thrown him out in 2015. Their love is not deep. A candidature against him by a wronged SPM is likely to attract the very voters the LibDems rely on.
The LibDems here will be better placed than me to know if Daisy (or another) is ready to step up as leader. But at least she has the benefit of not being "pale, male and stale" (although neither was Jo Swinson). But at least on the issue of the SPM's, she is at least a clean pair of hands and the Party can move on to more easily making the case "better than the Tories".
As one who worked for the old Liberal Party in the Thorpe years and afterwards, and who has since frequently voted LibDem, I agree that Davey would be wise to step back. Doing so is the right thing to do, although like many judges he can reasonably claim he was lied to by the Post Office senior management. It is to be hoped that before too long that senior management is standing in the dock at the Old Bailey.
Sir Ed Davey has another escape route. He could renounce his Sir-hood, just as Paula Vennells has un-CBE'd herself. That might show enough remorse to keep him in place as leader.
Does he value the leadership of the LDs more than his knighthood though?
What is his goal as LD leader? Presumably to see them do as well as possible in the GE and have more influence in the next parliament. They will not be joining and coalition though, so he is not in-line for a cabinet role.
Arguably, he would do most for the LDs now by resigning as a point of honour.
Farage is the ultimate protest politician. Yes, even better than Corbyn. Most people don't understand politics and how the world works. They think it should be simple and get frustrated when politicians in government fail to do these easy, simple things.
The Nigel has a simple job. Lie. Tell people who know no better that yes, things are simple, these politicians are making idiots of you and you should vote against them.
The notion that he should lead the Tory party is for the birds. Why would a protest politician want power? Power means reality and complexity and compromise...
Jake Berry on Trump: "Bring him back!" Jess Phillips: "You don't actually think that." JB: "Economically, Biden has been a disaster." JP: "You really think Trump would be good for the States? You like a bit of insurrection?" JB: "He's not been convicted of anything." 👀~AA
The economy is one of the administration's strongest points.
Unfortunately for Biden, the country doesn’t always see it that way: I’ve seen it called the “vibecession”. More people are in jobs & better paid jobs, but they feel worse off because inflation is putting up the prices of everything around them. The fact that they have a job thanks to the strong economy & even after inflation are on net better off doesn’t register as much as the hit to the pocket book from high energy prices.
I live in a Conservative constituency and the local NextDoor on-line community group has been running a poll on how people intend to vote in the next election and Reform is ahead of the Conservatives. People have started to refer on the site to Gillian Keegan, who is MP for the neighbouring constiuency, as "Mrs Fujitsu". I wonder how damaging this will be for her?
Tories thinking about financial penalties for deserters.
Anger among Conservative MPs at Chris Skidmore is palpable.
I’ve seen WhatsApp messages showing Anna Firth - PPS to the Home Secretary - asking “why should the taxpayer have to keep paying for all these unnecessary byelections?”.
She suggests: “Perhaps the rules need to change such that if an MP causes an unnecessary byelection out of choice within a year of a GE, they should bear the costs”.
It seems to me that the DPP is attacked for prosecuting people and attacked for not prosecuting people. Can't win, eh?
On a completely unrelated note, I have had much to say over the years about the epic disaster that is BT Group but Openreach's FTTP rollout has been extraordinary, surely one of the fastest in history of any country, which is a real credit to their engineering teams and also to Ofcom who provided a good regulatory environment finally that encouraged/forced them to do it. It is a shame it took so long but I have nothing but good things to say about both organisations now.
To put this into context, Openreach currently cover 60,000 premises a week with their rollout and will hit another 1 million premises covered in total in just Q1 this year, another new record. These rates surpass countries like Germany, Spain and France.
At the moment they are well on track to hit their aim of 25 million premises covered by 2026 and they have now said they will continue building "after", which suggests to me that they will eventually cover everyone with a mix of private and public subsidy. And for once I think I am supportive of them getting most of it as they seem to be doing the best job.
And yet their record on connecting the countryside to FTTP - which is the real issue that has existed for years - is pretty abysmal. I am not talking just about remote properties but relatively large villages.
Their forward plans show they will not reach most of the countryside outside the major towns until at least the end of 2026. And even then it looks like they will miss much of that target.
These billions will tun out to be a vast unnecessary cost anyway, totally overtaken by satellite systems such as Starlink. Just give the last 10% a Starlink kit and subsidised monthly fee.
Fibre is always better, if it can be done for a reasonable cost.
OneWeb is exactly for the last few percent where this is not true - they sell backhaul. The idea is that (say) you set up a 5G phone mast, with the connection to the rest of the planet via OneWeb satellites. So, suddenly a remote Scottish island (say) has high(ish) speed internet.
Yep. Which is not the case with most of the areas that are still waiting (and will be waiting for many years I suspect) for connection. Our village is 2000 people equi-distant between two towns about 10 miles to each along an A Road. This is not really anywhere near remote. The same goes for the vast majority of places listed on the Openreach plans.
If they were to say that fibre is simply too expensive for most of the country outside the towns and cities then so be it. I can accept that argument. But they are paying vast sums of money to Openreach to connect us all up and they seem to be picking all the low hanging fruit whilst leaving the vast majority of places outside the towns to the very end of their forecast period. Does anyone seriously believe that is realistic?
Yes, picking the low-hanging fruit is sensible first, you can then build on that to complete the rest later.
Connecting your village makes sense from the way you've described it to be done only after the towns that you're between have been done and that's going to be the case with almost all villages surely?
Going for where you get the most return on your investment first makes sense.
Its the Pareto Principle in action.
Yes its sensible but my point is their promises are clearly unrealistic. And many of these towns already had fibre connection. The Openreach programme was specifically to target those parts of the country that were not yet connected and where the commercial imperative would never be sufficient. Hence all that public money. The towns (including both referenced in my posting) already have full fibre from other commercial operators and have had for several years.
Seems perfectly realistic - when the subsidy money runs out and they haven't connected up the deep rural bits, they go back to the future government and complain about "IT inflation" and how they need more money.
What's wrong with that plan?
From the vendor’s point of view, and the point of view of the senior CS and ministers hoping to get a lucrative consultancy gig with the vendor in retirement, nothing at all.
Farage is the ultimate protest politician. Yes, even better than Corbyn. Most people don't understand politics and how the world works. They think it should be simple and get frustrated when politicians in government fail to do these easy, simple things.
The Nigel has a simple job. Lie. Tell people who know no better that yes, things are simple, these politicians are making idiots of you and you should vote against them.
The notion that he should lead the Tory party is for the birds. Why would a protest politician want power? Power means reality and complexity and compromise...
Yes - Farage hasn't done anything substantive other than being an effective campaigner/communicator. He has never been in power or even managed to run a significant party. And actually he ran away from it all in 2016 when he had the opportunity to join the mainstream.
Farage is the ultimate protest politician. Yes, even better than Corbyn. Most people don't understand politics and how the world works. They think it should be simple and get frustrated when politicians in government fail to do these easy, simple things.
The Nigel has a simple job. Lie. Tell people who know no better that yes, things are simple, these politicians are making idiots of you and you should vote against them.
The notion that he should lead the Tory party is for the birds. Why would a protest politician want power? Power means reality and complexity and compromise...
Yes - Farage hasn't done anything substantive other than being an effective campaigner/communicator. He has never been in power or even managed to run a significant party. And actually he ran away from it all in 2016 when he had the opportunity to join the mainstream.
And the skillbase required for success in the two respective activities are significantly different. Cf. a certain Mr Johnson.
Agree. And pretty clear to me Farage will be the Tory leader and probably PM by 2030.
As amusing as this would be, how does it happen? Lay out the sequence of events. He's not even a member.
The man you seek is here. I stand before you, Nigel Farage, torn from GB News. O you who were alone in taking pity on the unutterable trials of tories
(apolgies to Virgil)
It's going to need and absolute Tory wipe-out at the GE, Farage selected as a Tory candidate at a by-election, winning the seat (at the 8th attempt), the rump of Tory MPs selecting him in a top two, then a massive Tory recovery, the like of which we've never seen before.
All with the space of a parliament.
So, on balance, I think not.
Agree. Although if Farage did join the Tories, he'd be highly likely to be approved as a candidate and selected for a winnable constituency. From there, MPs who put Truss and Johnson into the final two (and into No 10 in those cases), could easily put Farage to the membership.
The blocker is that first point. Why would Reform have bothered with being Reform if the medium-term goal was to take over the Tories? It would have been much easier to say 'the Tories are the Brexit party now; let's take them over'.
Jake Berry on Trump: "Bring him back!" Jess Phillips: "You don't actually think that." JB: "Economically, Biden has been a disaster." JP: "You really think Trump would be good for the States? You like a bit of insurrection?" JB: "He's not been convicted of anything." 👀~AA
The economy is one of the administration's strongest points.
Unfortunately for Biden, the country doesn’t always see it that way: I’ve seen it called the “vibecession”. More people are in jobs & better paid jobs, but they feel worse off because inflation is putting up the prices of everything around them. The fact that they have a job thanks to the strong economy & even after inflation are on net better off doesn’t register as much as the hit to the pocket book from high energy prices.
Where it relates to the thread is that social media is very promoting of doomerism. You get more clicks if you say you're in a second Great Depression, climate change will make humans extinct, the US will have a civil war, wokery something something etc.
The Tories have been pursuing ever more Faragist policies since 2016, and the result has been abject failure and worsening polls.
It is not obvious to this observer how "more Fucking Farage" will reverse those trends...
Surely you don't believe this tripe?
As I have said before, if we ever do get an Actually And Firmly Right Wing Government in the UK, rather than one that waffles about kinda rightwing things but then does generally leftwing things, then it is going to come as a total, existential shock to BILLIONS of PB-ers
Agree. And pretty clear to me Farage will be the Tory leader and probably PM by 2030.
As amusing as this would be, how does it happen? Lay out the sequence of events. He's not even a member.
The man you seek is here. I stand before you, Nigel Farage, torn from GB News. O you who were alone in taking pity on the unutterable trials of tories
(apolgies to Virgil)
Here is Bard's attempt at an epic poem about Farage and the sub postmasters in the style of Virgil.
Faragius et Postum Magistri
(Farage and the Sub Postmasters)
I sing of Faragius, a man of cunning tongue and fiery mien, Whose words, like barbed arrows, pierced the hearts of Albion's green. He rose from humble stock, a fishmonger's son so bold, But soon his ambitions soared, beyond mere scales and gold.
He spoke of empires lost, of glories fading fast, Of foreign hordes that swarmed, a pestilence amassed. He blamed the distant Sena, the faceless bureaucrats, For woes that festered deep, in homes and fields and huts.
His voice, a siren's song, seduced the ears of discontent, The disenfranchised masses, on broken promises bent. They hailed him Dux Britanniarum, a savior from the mire, Who'd lead them back to greatness, bathed in Albion's fire.
But hidden in the shadows, lurked a serpent's treacherous coil, A scandal primed to erupt, a poisoned cup to boil. The Postum Magistri, keepers of the Queen's own mail, Were struck by fate's cruel hand, their livelihoods to fail.
Computers, cold and hard, with logic sharp and keen, Spat out accusations false, a web of lies obscene. Good men and women, pillars of their town and trade, Were cast as villains vile, their reputations flayed.
Faragius, ever keen to fan the flames of discontent, Seized on this tragedy, his rhetoric heaven-sent. He painted them as martyrs, pawns in a foreign game, Betrayed by faceless powers, consumed by bureaucratic shame.
The mob, aroused to fury, with pitchforks and with cries, Descended on the halls of power, where justice coldly lies. They stormed the Senate gates, with righteous anger's might, Demanding retribution, bathed in vengeance's light.
But Faragius, the serpent, had slithered to his den, Leaving the fires he'd stoked, to consume other men. He watched from afar, with a smile both sly and grim, As Albion, self-divided, writhed in chaos's dim.
So ends the tale of Faragius, a demagogue's cruel art, Who played upon the fears and wounds, to tear his land apart. And in the wake of fury, as the ashes softly fall, The Postum Magistri stand, their scars a silent call.
A call for justice true, for wrongs that cannot mend, A call for reason's light, where shadows once contend. May Albion hear their plea, and learn from errors past, Lest Faragius' poisonous words, forever hold her fast.
Stephen Bradshaw seems to have been just following orders
It's a disaster of an inquiry appearance and, unlike some similar that have gone before, he doesn't seem to be aware of the hole he is disappearing into. Lack of self awareness coupled with lack or remourse isn't a good look. Since we now know that innocent people went to jail, just saying that everything you did was fine, as deeply involved as he was, is a doomed strategem.
The Tories have been pursuing ever more Faragist policies since 2016, and the result has been abject failure and worsening polls.
It is not obvious to this observer how "more Fucking Farage" will reverse those trends...
Surely you don't believe this tripe?
As I have said before, if we ever do get an Actually And Firmly Right Wing Government in the UK, rather than one that waffles about kinda rightwing things but then does generally leftwing things, then it is going to come as a total, existential shock to BILLIONS of PB-ers
I live in a Conservative constituency and the local NextDoor on-line community group has been running a poll on how people intend to vote in the next election and Reform is ahead of the Conservatives. People have started to refer on the site to Gillian Keegan, who is MP for the neighbouring constiuency, as "Mrs Fujitsu". I wonder how damaging this will be for her?
I am hopecasting that "Mr/Mrs Fujitsu" is 2024's word of the year. The new Karen.
The Tories have been pursuing ever more Faragist policies since 2016, and the result has been abject failure and worsening polls.
It is not obvious to this observer how "more Fucking Farage" will reverse those trends...
Surely you don't believe this tripe?
As I have said before, if we ever do get an Actually And Firmly Right Wing Government in the UK, rather than one that waffles about kinda rightwing things but then does generally leftwing things, then it is going to come as a total, existential shock to BILLIONS of PB-ers
Agree. And pretty clear to me Farage will be the Tory leader and probably PM by 2030.
As amusing as this would be, how does it happen? Lay out the sequence of events. He's not even a member.
The man you seek is here. I stand before you, Nigel Farage, torn from GB News. O you who were alone in taking pity on the unutterable trials of tories
(apolgies to Virgil)
It's going to need and absolute Tory wipe-out at the GE, Farage selected as a Tory candidate at a by-election, winning the seat (at the 8th attempt), the rump of Tory MPs selecting him in a top two, then a massive Tory recovery, the like of which we've never seen before.
All with the space of a parliament.
So, on balance, I think not.
Agree. Although if Farage did join the Tories, he'd be highly likely to be approved as a candidate and selected for a winnable constituency. From there, MPs who put Truss and Johnson into the final two (and into No 10 in those cases), could easily put Farage to the membership.
The blocker is that first point. Why would Reform have bothered with being Reform if the medium-term goal was to take over the Tories? It would have been much easier to say 'the Tories are the Brexit party now; let's take them over'.
I suppose Reform acts as a destabilizing factor. Many Tories look to them, and their massive asset of Farage, with envious eyes. This envy then makes them more frustrated and more pliable.
Does anyone think Ed Davey will resign? I think he may do.
The LibDems on here will howl me down as a Tory stooge, but looked at as objectively as I can, I think he is in some real difficulty.
We are in an election year. This issue has come from nowhere (who thought Davey was in any difficulty 2 weeks ago?) and the issue causing him a problem is likely to have a serious impact on the political weather through to the election. Now, partly that may feed into an anti-government sentiment ("everything is broken!"). But it will focus down on individuals too.
As much as anybody knows anything about Davey, it is now first and foremost that "he has questions to answer over the PO fiasco". So he was lied to. But was he too incurious? Too gullible? Both big faults in a party leader.
The LibDem message going into the election is woefully thin, but such as it is depends on being "better than the Tories". A harder sell with Davey at the helm. He is also boxed in. He has to go quickly - or not at all. He can't say "I will step down after the election". Partly because that gives a good reason not to vote for him anyway. The last thing the LibDems need is to lose their leader at two elections in a row. But his voters have already thrown him out in 2015. Their love is not deep. A candidature against him by a wronged SPM is likely to attract the very voters the LibDems rely on.
The LibDems here will be better placed than me to know if Daisy (or another) is ready to step up as leader. But at least she has the benefit of not being "pale, male and stale" (although neither was Jo Swinson). But at least on the issue of the SPM's, she is at least a clean pair of hands and the Party can move on to more easily making the case "better than the Tories".
As one who worked for the old Liberal Party in the Thorpe years and afterwards, and who has since frequently voted LibDem, I agree that Davey would be wise to step back. Doing so is the right thing to do, although like many judges he can reasonably claim he was lied to by the Post Office senior management. It is to be hoped that before too long that senior management is standing in the dock at the Old Bailey.
Sir Ed Davey has another escape route. He could renounce his Sir-hood, just as Paula Vennells has un-CBE'd herself. That might show enough remorse to keep him in place as leader.
Does he value the leadership of the LDs more than his knighthood though?
What is his goal as LD leader? Presumably to see them do as well as possible in the GE and have more influence in the next parliament. They will not be joining and coalition though, so he is not in-line for a cabinet role.
Arguably, he would do most for the LDs now by resigning as a point of honour.
I agree. To be clear, I am not running any kind of narrative that I think Davey is any more culpable than a lot of politicians over the years, of all party colours.
However, he has unfortunately (for him) become the story, fairly or unfairly, and it would actually give the LDs a tremendous boost if he were to step aside on a “I will be honourable and acknowledge faults, why won’t others in the Tory Party do the same”?
As it is he is in danger of this taking over all his campaign interviews/appearances and potentially having a knock on effect on LD votes.
Tories thinking about financial penalties for deserters.
Anger among Conservative MPs at Chris Skidmore is palpable.
I’ve seen WhatsApp messages showing Anna Firth - PPS to the Home Secretary - asking “why should the taxpayer have to keep paying for all these unnecessary byelections?”.
She suggests: “Perhaps the rules need to change such that if an MP causes an unnecessary byelection out of choice within a year of a GE, they should bear the costs”.
I was thinking about pointing this out on linkedin when he got so much credit and applause for his 'net zero' stance. It turns out he has several outside consultancy related employments including £80k a year as an advisor to a company that capture emissions. So he should easily be in a position to pay up for the £250k for the by-election. Or just sit as an independent MP and use it as a platform for his thought leadership on net zero.
"“[Christie dropping out] changes the whole story to Donald Trump’s worst nightmare, which is having to campaign and run on substance against someone who’s balanced budgets, who’s been a strong conservative leader and who, at the same time, hasn’t left chaos wherever she’s gone,” Mr. Sununu said. "
The Tories have been pursuing ever more Faragist policies since 2016, and the result has been abject failure and worsening polls.
It is not obvious to this observer how "more Fucking Farage" will reverse those trends...
Surely you don't believe this tripe?
As I have said before, if we ever do get an Actually And Firmly Right Wing Government in the UK, rather than one that waffles about kinda rightwing things but then does generally leftwing things, then it is going to come as a total, existential shock to BILLIONS of PB-ers
Why is nobody witch-hunting the Tories for their role in the PO scandal?
I think Ed Davey has some (minor) questions to answer, and has handled the issue badly so far, but literally NOBODY is talking about the Tories, who have allegedly been running the country since 2010.
This tells us a lot, I think, about how news is manufactured in the UK.
Yousless was insisting we did not need a ban in Scotland because we had so much better regulation than those savages south of the border (or words to that effect). So then, in a completely unpredictable move, people started moving XL bully dogs north and, well, the SG has now decided that our regulation is not so wonderful after all.
This independence thing is maybe not quite as straightforward as some like to think.
The Tories have been pursuing ever more Faragist policies since 2016, and the result has been abject failure and worsening polls.
It is not obvious to this observer how "more Fucking Farage" will reverse those trends...
Surely you don't believe this tripe?
As I have said before, if we ever do get an Actually And Firmly Right Wing Government in the UK, rather than one that waffles about kinda rightwing things but then does generally leftwing things, then it is going to come as a total, existential shock to BILLIONS of PB-ers
Billions??
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers.
I expect AI to be a big help to those inclined to generate multiple online identities. Dunno if there's anyone of such a dispostion on here..
Why is nobody witch-hunting the Tories for their role in the PO scandal?
I think Ed Davey has some (minor) questions to answer, and has handled the issue badly so far, but literally NOBODY is talking about the Tories, who have allegedly been running the country since 2010.
This tells us a lot, I think, about how news is manufactured in the UK.
No it doesn’t
It’s just a lot harder to find a particular Tory to lay the blame on. Davey was unfortunately in the hot seat at the worst moment, the SPMs have named him and shamed him, and he went on to work for the PO’s lawyers for lots of money. And he’s very fond of calling for people to resign
Does anyone think Ed Davey will resign? I think he may do.
The LibDems on here will howl me down as a Tory stooge, but looked at as objectively as I can, I think he is in some real difficulty.
We are in an election year. This issue has come from nowhere (who thought Davey was in any difficulty 2 weeks ago?) and the issue causing him a problem is likely to have a serious impact on the political weather through to the election. Now, partly that may feed into an anti-government sentiment ("everything is broken!"). But it will focus down on individuals too.
As much as anybody knows anything about Davey, it is now first and foremost that "he has questions to answer over the PO fiasco". So he was lied to. But was he too incurious? Too gullible? Both big faults in a party leader.
The LibDem message going into the election is woefully thin, but such as it is depends on being "better than the Tories". A harder sell with Davey at the helm. He is also boxed in. He has to go quickly - or not at all. He can't say "I will step down after the election". Partly because that gives a good reason not to vote for him anyway. The last thing the LibDems need is to lose their leader at two elections in a row. But his voters have already thrown him out in 2015. Their love is not deep. A candidature against him by a wronged SPM is likely to attract the very voters the LibDems rely on.
The LibDems here will be better placed than me to know if Daisy (or another) is ready to step up as leader. But at least she has the benefit of not being "pale, male and stale" (although neither was Jo Swinson). But at least on the issue of the SPM's, she is at least a clean pair of hands and the Party can move on to more easily making the case "better than the Tories".
As one who worked for the old Liberal Party in the Thorpe years and afterwards, and who has since frequently voted LibDem, I agree that Davey would be wise to step back. Doing so is the right thing to do, although like many judges he can reasonably claim he was lied to by the Post Office senior management. It is to be hoped that before too long that senior management is standing in the dock at the Old Bailey.
Sir Ed Davey has another escape route. He could renounce his Sir-hood, just as Paula Vennells has un-CBE'd herself. That might show enough remorse to keep him in place as leader.
Does he value the leadership of the LDs more than his knighthood though?
What is his goal as LD leader? Presumably to see them do as well as possible in the GE and have more influence in the next parliament. They will not be joining and coalition though, so he is not in-line for a cabinet role.
Arguably, he would do most for the LDs now by resigning as a point of honour.
I agree. To be clear, I am not running any kind of narrative that I think Davey is any more culpable than a lot of politicians over the years, of all party colours.
However, he has unfortunately (for him) become the story, fairly or unfairly, and it would actually give the LDs a tremendous boost if he were to step aside on a “I will be honourable and acknowledge faults, why won’t others in the Tory Party do the same”?
As it is he is in danger of this taking over all his campaign interviews/appearances and potentially having a knock on effect on LD votes.
OGH is apparently of a similar view.
If he were the sole political victim of the saga, it would be grossly unfair. But politics is unfair - and an honourable resignation now would do his reputation no harm.
The Tories have been pursuing ever more Faragist policies since 2016, and the result has been abject failure and worsening polls.
It is not obvious to this observer how "more Fucking Farage" will reverse those trends...
Surely you don't believe this tripe?
As I have said before, if we ever do get an Actually And Firmly Right Wing Government in the UK, rather than one that waffles about kinda rightwing things but then does generally leftwing things, then it is going to come as a total, existential shock to BILLIONS of PB-ers
Great line. How about some real world examples. What would a really Right Wing Government policy do on: tax, NHS, pensions, social housing, deficit, debt, trade policy, defence, Ukraine, free speech, Israel/Palestine, universities, migration, schools.
Actual government has to have big policies on big questions, not populist minutiae about Daily Mail stories. Opposition politics won't do.
Open that Overton window and think big! Let is into the secrets.
Why is nobody witch-hunting the Tories for their role in the PO scandal?
I think Ed Davey has some (minor) questions to answer, and has handled the issue badly so far, but literally NOBODY is talking about the Tories, who have allegedly been running the country since 2010.
This tells us a lot, I think, about how news is manufactured in the UK.
Also how the SNP can be ruined by the motorhome thing, whilst the tories basically get a free pass over the Covid procurement scandals.
"“[Christie dropping out] changes the whole story to Donald Trump’s worst nightmare, which is having to campaign and run on substance against someone who’s balanced budgets, who’s been a strong conservative leader and who, at the same time, hasn’t left chaos wherever she’s gone,” Mr. Sununu said. "
NY Times
The very idea that Trump considers anyone who can balance budgets as a threat, is startling.
Why is nobody witch-hunting the Tories for their role in the PO scandal?
I think Ed Davey has some (minor) questions to answer, and has handled the issue badly so far, but literally NOBODY is talking about the Tories, who have allegedly been running the country since 2010.
This tells us a lot, I think, about how news is manufactured in the UK.
Going after Ed Davey may prove a strategic error for the Tories. At some point, people might twig that if a minister in 2010-12 was responsible for the Post Office, then maybe later ministers were too - and that they will have had more information about what was going on, and going wrong. Until Davey's name got dragged in, politicians seemed to have escaped the blame entirely (perhaps connected to the way in which all three larger GB parties supplied PO ministers).
Jake Berry on Trump: "Bring him back!" Jess Phillips: "You don't actually think that." JB: "Economically, Biden has been a disaster." JP: "You really think Trump would be good for the States? You like a bit of insurrection?" JB: "He's not been convicted of anything." 👀~AA
The economy is one of the administration's strongest points.
Unfortunately for Biden, the country doesn’t always see it that way: I’ve seen it called the “vibecession”. More people are in jobs & better paid jobs, but they feel worse off because inflation is putting up the prices of everything around them. The fact that they have a job thanks to the strong economy & even after inflation are on net better off doesn’t register as much as the hit to the pocket book from high energy prices.
Where it relates to the thread is that social media is very promoting of doomerism. You get more clicks if you say you're in a second Great Depression, climate change will make humans extinct, the US will have a civil war, wokery something something etc.
Thanks, I will listen.
My own instinct is that the US has been suffering an inflation hangover. Even with inflation in the rear-view mirror, people still experience what seem to be “high” grocery bills etc. So they feel poorer, even if objectively they are not.
I also think the vibecession is itself dissipating. It’s a 2023 phenomenon which I don’t feel will carry over into 2024.
Regardless, Jake Berry appears to be a moron and some kind of lower-order primate. Astonishing that some on here pick him as next Tory leader.
This has certainly caught the imagination of my local Facebook groups. It's people running, cycling, and walking their own dogs through parks in the less salubrious parts of Scotland that are most exposed to this.
I've previously come across our local XL Bully (didn't realise it at the time) and he's kept the vet busy stitching up various cockapoos. Also destroyed a tree - the owner trains him to jump up and grab onto branches.
The Tories have been pursuing ever more Faragist policies since 2016, and the result has been abject failure and worsening polls.
It is not obvious to this observer how "more Fucking Farage" will reverse those trends...
Surely you don't believe this tripe?
As I have said before, if we ever do get an Actually And Firmly Right Wing Government in the UK, rather than one that waffles about kinda rightwing things but then does generally leftwing things, then it is going to come as a total, existential shock to BILLIONS of PB-ers
Yousless was insisting we did not need a ban in Scotland because we had so much better regulation than those savages south of the border (or words to that effect). So then, in a completely unpredictable move, people started moving XL bully dogs north and, well, the SG has now decided that our regulation is not so wonderful after all.
This independence thing is maybe not quite as straightforward as some like to think.
Hmm, I thought that they were taking the SSPCA line that there needs to be an evidence based review etc etc
That's the correct response for some new legislation but not for the current issue, massively exacerbated by the move in England to indirectly export them to Scotland.
The Tories have been pursuing ever more Faragist policies since 2016, and the result has been abject failure and worsening polls.
It is not obvious to this observer how "more Fucking Farage" will reverse those trends...
Surely you don't believe this tripe?
As I have said before, if we ever do get an Actually And Firmly Right Wing Government in the UK, rather than one that waffles about kinda rightwing things but then does generally leftwing things, then it is going to come as a total, existential shock to BILLIONS of PB-ers
Great line. How about some real world examples. What would a really Right Wing Government policy do on: tax, NHS, pensions, social housing, deficit, debt, trade policy, defence, Ukraine, free speech, Israel/Palestine, universities, migration, schools.
Actual government has to have big policies on big questions, not populist minutiae about Daily Mail stories. Opposition politics won't do.
Open that Overton window and think big! Let is into the secrets.
Lower taxes, net zero immigration, zero NHS waiting lists and cheaper energy, apparently. Why didn't anyone else think of that?
Presumably, in their second term they will end poverty, cure cancer, end global conflict, and provide free unicorns for all.
"We will return foreigners to their homeland. By the millions.
This is not a secret plan. This is a promise.
For more security. For more justice. To preserve our identity. For Germany."
Do we know to what extent AfD polling is reflected in real elections, i.e. is it like UKIP in the 2010s which met or exceeded polling in byelections and other elections, or like RefUK now where the polling is runnign way ahead of actual votes?
"“[Christie dropping out] changes the whole story to Donald Trump’s worst nightmare, which is having to campaign and run on substance against someone who’s balanced budgets, who’s been a strong conservative leader and who, at the same time, hasn’t left chaos wherever she’s gone,” Mr. Sununu said. "
NY Times
It doesn't change the story. Christie dropping out is a lower-order good thing / bad thing for Trump. On the one hand, it removes the strongest critical voice in the campaign (and Trump will use that fact to 'prove' how out-of-touch his critics are); on the other, Christie's supporters will redistribute and that will be a net negative for Trump.
However, Haley was already the prime challenger to Trump. Iowa might or might not demonstrate that but New Hampshire will. But it's far from Trump's worst nightmare: the field was always going to thin and as long as he's polling ~60% nationally among primary voters, he can stroll to the convention. His nightmare scenario is being booted out by the courts.
Why is nobody witch-hunting the Tories for their role in the PO scandal?
I think Ed Davey has some (minor) questions to answer, and has handled the issue badly so far, but literally NOBODY is talking about the Tories, who have allegedly been running the country since 2010.
This tells us a lot, I think, about how news is manufactured in the UK.
Also how the SNP can be ruined by the motorhome thing, whilst the tories basically get a free pass over the Covid procurement scandals.
To be fair, the Tories are languishing in the 20s in the polls. I’m pretty sure part of that is to do with them getting their comeuppance for various (and numerous) behaviours in recent years.
If I had a pound for every time I came across people involved in investigating, delivering or fixing IT issues saying: 'I'm not really technical', I'd be posting this from my yacht in the Caribbean.
If you're not technically minded why the f*ck are you taking the salary and pretending to do the job? Grrr!!
Why is nobody witch-hunting the Tories for their role in the PO scandal?
I think Ed Davey has some (minor) questions to answer, and has handled the issue badly so far, but literally NOBODY is talking about the Tories, who have allegedly been running the country since 2010.
This tells us a lot, I think, about how news is manufactured in the UK.
Going after Ed Davey may prove a strategic error for the Tories. At some point, people might twig that if a minister in 2010-12 was responsible for the Post Office, then maybe later ministers were too - and that they will have had more information about what was going on, and going wrong. Until Davey's name got dragged in, politicians seemed to have escaped the blame entirely (perhaps connected to the way in which all three larger GB parties supplied PO ministers).
It also just emphasises how reluctant the Tories are to take any accountability at all for their lengthy period in government. Whether its the NHS, immigration, the economy, the courts, schools, transport it is always someone elses fault.
In which case, if they can't fix anything because of "others", what is the point of them anyway?
All the fuss about trying to blame the DPP for a miscarriage of justice seems very strange to me. It seems to be based on the idea that the DPP should in effect be conducting a preliminary trial before the case comes to court. Why would anyone think that was the DPP's job?
Perhaps the DPP could reasonably be expected to pick up on anomalously large numbers of disputed cases with a common factor that might point to a systemic problem. But not if the DPP had involvement in only a tiny number of these cases, as was the case here.
The mistake you are making is trying to answer this logically and look at the relative competencies between the PO and the DPP/CPS.
No, I'm not. I'm pointing out that that trying to hang this on the DPP is completely illogical.
Obvious the reason it's happening is the one you give - it's a purely political smear campaign against Starmer.
The problem with the Post Office story is that virtually no-one with any power comes out of it looking good. A couple of journalists and politicians, perhaps. Some of the poor victims as well.
Everyone in power has questions to answer; including the government, and those who were in government. But that also extends to Starmer, and these attempts to try to make him into a victim of this mess ("political smear campaign') carries more than a little whiff.
Starmer has questions to answer.
Rather than answering them his defenders prefer to scream "Partisan!" and then, without any sense of irony, point to Peter Lilley who was last responsible for the scope nearly 30 years ago.
All I’m seeing there in your post is a very partisan witch hunt with you trying to blame someone else.
Few people currently want to go into politics, the odds of finding seriously qualified and suitable people is even less likely. And with posts like yours literally no-one will do it in future, because with social media and a daily witch hunt either of reflect blame or for the lols it’s not worth the grief
I'm finding @Casino_Royale and @isam posts sickening in trying to make political capital out of such a tragedy You should be ashamed of yourselves.
The system is broken where it takes a drama to get action from politicians and it doesn't matter which party they come from. This is endemic. It is the same story for Windrush, Blood contamination, Equitable Life, etc. And there are a whole host of others. As mentioned before I am helping a campaign that is identical in most respects (except people didn't go to prison) to the Post Office, but I don't blame the party in power in this case (2012 - Now) because I know it wouldn't be any different if it were Labour or LD or anyone else and interestingly the MPs that support our campaign come from the Conservatives, Labour, LDs and SNP.
When the system is rotten and people have suffered badly, making political points out of it is pathetic and self defeating. We need to fix the system. That isn't happening currently. We are just fixing the one that got a drama made out of it. It is excellent that is happening, but people's lives are being ruined in all the other cases also.
My view is somewhat different: the politicians are at the top. The people at the bottom; the man and women who ran post offices, and their staff, have suffered because of incompetence and lies of others. No-one else; in particular the managers, lawyers, politicians etc have had much penalty for misdeed or mistakes so far.
We cannot fix the system unless the people who make mistakes learn that mistakes can cost *them*, as well as the plebs. We cannot fix the system unless the people who do misdeeds learn those misdeeds can cost *them*.
Starmer was DPP; a fact he takes pride in. The CPS was involved in the mess; not in a major way, but involved nonetheless. How much Starmer was involved, or should have been involved, is an open question, and not the closed one that some on here want. There are questions, whether you like it nor not. As there are for many other politicians.
Ignoring those questions will not fix the system.
Does it really matter now that the CPS has been abolished? Oh, hold on, no, the CPS is still there, in which case it is odd that humble seekers after truth, such as yourself, have not asked about the three DPPs since Starmer, or the one before.
Yes, his predecessors - or successors - may have questions to answer. I think we agree on that.
What that does not do is mean that Starmer does not have questions to answer.
"... humble seekers after truth, such as yourself,"
Does anyone think Ed Davey will resign? I think he may do.
The LibDems on here will howl me down as a Tory stooge, but looked at as objectively as I can, I think he is in some real difficulty.
We are in an election year. This issue has come from nowhere (who thought Davey was in any difficulty 2 weeks ago?) and the issue causing him a problem is likely to have a serious impact on the political weather through to the election. Now, partly that may feed into an anti-government sentiment ("everything is broken!"). But it will focus down on individuals too.
As much as anybody knows anything about Davey, it is now first and foremost that "he has questions to answer over the PO fiasco". So he was lied to. But was he too incurious? Too gullible? Both big faults in a party leader.
The LibDem message going into the election is woefully thin, but such as it is depends on being "better than the Tories". A harder sell with Davey at the helm. He is also boxed in. He has to go quickly - or not at all. He can't say "I will step down after the election". Partly because that gives a good reason not to vote for him anyway. The last thing the LibDems need is to lose their leader at two elections in a row. But his voters have already thrown him out in 2015. Their love is not deep. A candidature against him by a wronged SPM is likely to attract the very voters the LibDems rely on.
The LibDems here will be better placed than me to know if Daisy (or another) is ready to step up as leader. But at least she has the benefit of not being "pale, male and stale" (although neither was Jo Swinson). But at least on the issue of the SPM's, she is at least a clean pair of hands and the Party can move on to more easily making the case "better than the Tories".
As one who worked for the old Liberal Party in the Thorpe years and afterwards, and who has since frequently voted LibDem, I agree that Davey would be wise to step back. Doing so is the right thing to do, although like many judges he can reasonably claim he was lied to by the Post Office senior management. It is to be hoped that before too long that senior management is standing in the dock at the Old Bailey.
Sir Ed Davey has another escape route. He could renounce his Sir-hood, just as Paula Vennells has un-CBE'd herself. That might show enough remorse to keep him in place as leader.
Does he value the leadership of the LDs more than his knighthood though?
What is his goal as LD leader? Presumably to see them do as well as possible in the GE and have more influence in the next parliament. They will not be joining and coalition though, so he is not in-line for a cabinet role.
Arguably, he would do most for the LDs now by resigning as a point of honour.
Political bettors and PB.com routinely overestimate the pressure for a resignation. Davey is not the main architect of the scandal. He is one of a dozen politicians from across all 3 (even 4) main parties who missed opportunities to do something, and he’s done more than most of those to apologise.
We’ve had many (welcome) headlines about the scandal in recent days. The vast majority make no mention of Davey. I doubt this has cut through with the public yet. Maybe it will in the future (a credible independent campaign in his constituency seems more of a threat). But there is currently no groundswell of opinion that will force Davey out.
Sunak has been fined by the police for breaking the law twice, and no one even bothers to mention it these days. Most issues that lead to calls for politicians’ resignations go nowhere.
It would be great to see some polling on all this. How many of the public are paying attention? Who do they think is to blame?
Why is nobody witch-hunting the Tories for their role in the PO scandal?
I think Ed Davey has some (minor) questions to answer, and has handled the issue badly so far, but literally NOBODY is talking about the Tories, who have allegedly been running the country since 2010.
This tells us a lot, I think, about how news is manufactured in the UK.
No it doesn’t
It’s just a lot harder to find a particular Tory to lay the blame on. Davey was unfortunately in the hot seat at the worst moment, the SPMs have named him and shamed him, and he went on to work for the PO’s lawyers for lots of money. And he’s very fond of calling for people to resign
Plenty of that is bad luck. But not all of it
Also, we nearly all have concluded that this version of the Conservative Party is staffed by people whose evil is only mitigated by their incompetence. For them to do stupid nasty things isn't news, because Dog Bites Man never is.
Two things follow.
The important one is that the only Conservative hope is to establish a narrative that everyone else is as bad as them. Which is what the client press are running with.
The less important one is that some of the criticism is, at least a bit, justified. Probably not much, but some.
"For many Republicans, the visceral satisfaction of liberal anguish at a Trump restoration more than makes up for his flaws."
"If you’re saying it’s “Morning in America” when 77 percent of Americans think the country is on the wrong track, you’re preaching to the wrong choir — and the wrong country.
Trump’s opponents say this is the most important election of our lifetime. Isn’t it time, then, to take our heads out of the sand?"
The Boiling Frog Syndrome* ratchets up another fraction of a degree.
Had this sort of poll been published 10 years ago, it would have been both shocking and not credible. By contrast, AfD polling in the 20s is now normalised. Yes, this is at the top-end of their scores but nothing too out of the ordinary - and each time they tick up a point or half point, that becomes the new normal.
Just as Trump attempting to overthrow the tenets of free speech, the rule of law and democracy in the US is the new normal. Just as Le Pen getting 40%+ in a run-off is a new normal. Just as populist right candidates entering and at times leading governments across Europe - and across other parts of the OECD - is a new normal. Just as a fascist regime in the Kremlin is a new normal. See also Turkey and Israel for two sides of the populist-religious coin. And on and on.
At some point, something might shock us out of the Syndrome but at the moment, it seems more likely to shock in retrospect than in the moment.
* It should be Freezing Frog Syndrome really. Frogs in heating water do notice it getting hot and will jump out if they can; in cooling water, being cold-blooded, their lack of energy makes them drowsy and they can ultimately freeze to death.
Tories thinking about financial penalties for deserters.
Anger among Conservative MPs at Chris Skidmore is palpable.
I’ve seen WhatsApp messages showing Anna Firth - PPS to the Home Secretary - asking “why should the taxpayer have to keep paying for all these unnecessary byelections?”.
She suggests: “Perhaps the rules need to change such that if an MP causes an unnecessary byelection out of choice within a year of a GE, they should bear the costs”.
I was thinking about pointing this out on linkedin when he got so much credit and applause for his 'net zero' stance. It turns out he has several outside consultancy related employments including £80k a year as an advisor to a company that capture emissions. So he should easily be in a position to pay up for the £250k for the by-election. Or just sit as an independent MP and use it as a platform for his thought leadership on net zero.
This is a typical example of an idea thrown up in a WhatsApp chat that sounds good for about 5 seconds, but is completely unworkable and stupid. Is it better to force someone to remain an MP, but pulling an O’Mara and not doing any work? You can’t force someone to do a job they don’t want to.
If the Tories don’t want to pay £250k for a by-election, they could have delayed calling the writ and then had a May general election. Problem solved!
Or, alternatively, they could pick better candidates? Or maybe they could stop U-turning on their own policies?
Why is nobody witch-hunting the Tories for their role in the PO scandal?
I think Ed Davey has some (minor) questions to answer, and has handled the issue badly so far, but literally NOBODY is talking about the Tories, who have allegedly been running the country since 2010.
This tells us a lot, I think, about how news is manufactured in the UK.
Also how the SNP can be ruined by the motorhome thing, whilst the tories basically get a free pass over the Covid procurement scandals.
Think how bad things would be for the Tories if almost all the press and media were in the skeptical of Tories to hatred of Tories range. In any case I’m sure the Tories and Rishi would publicly kill a small kitten to reach the polling of the ‘ruined’ SNP.
Comments
Which is less that a single big sized town. Though they have dozens of dots on their map, so 210k divided by dozens ... it intuitively doesn't feel like they're reaching 100% of every town they "reach". Probably cherrypicked the easy to reach ones who would subscribe and that's about it.
Openreach should be rolling out to everyone, that's the difference.
It will not be able to keep up with the increase in bandwidth, only fibre can do that.
How much would you be prepared to spend to link up those 10%? Or do you just write them off as "too difficult to connect"?
His issue has been, is, and will continue to be that quiet politicians struggle to be heard. Take yesterday as an example. Having been fingered as the only minister
to have met Alan Batesresponsible, he was further attacked for being absent from the Commons.Because childcare for his severely disabled son was cancelled at short notice. So he looked after the boy. The Daily Heil even has a heavily cropped photo of Davey getting the adapted tricycle out in its attack.
Is there any point trying to explain that? People willing to consider the lives of other people would be interested. But the lie is already the new truth, so what's the point?
https://twitter.com/OllyGrender/status/1745210665415974912
The man you seek is here. I stand before you,
Nigel Farage, torn from GB News.
O you who were alone in taking pity
on the unutterable trials of tories
(apolgies to Virgil)
Now we learn that 11 cases in England (and all - I think - in Scotland) were brought by the CPS (Scotland equiv).
I assume these 11 were the most evidentially sound.
So do we know whether the 11 CPR cases proceeded with evidence other than computer-says-so 'evidence' e.g. actual tangible evidence of theft?
As I said, you use it as an infill solution but FTTP can easily cover 99% of properties if there is will to do so. Openreach has shown this (as have others), by using existing infrastructure.
All with the space of a parliament.
So, on balance, I think not.
I'm no fan of Musk the Man, but his system works for those distant to infrastructure.
A new research paper saying that the number of political parties has little effect on the quality of democracy.
If the 'independents' get tracking in Davey's seat then that could be interesting, but would need a strong candidate - I don't know whether she is - with a good story and proper appeal.
Sunder Katwala
@sundersays
Farage is less popular than this, with Conservatives generally, and Con to Lab switchers. So this sub segment exists, but is not typical if C to Lab switchers. There were modest but not transformative gains within net disapproval of the celebrity TV appearances
There was a good thread by Beyond Topline (which has now suddenly disappeared) as well which showed that Con-Lab switchers actually like Starmer, too.
A number will require/want a direct connection. But many more don't need it.
In parts of Africa and the Third World, satellite backhaul will rapidly take over. No long ground cables to protect, maintain or install.
There will need to be a huge investment made to install infrastructure. Openreach said no - and would not be argued with even if you could speak to someone. Virgin media then cabled the estate. Main runs only. If you were on the little artificial 3/4 house culdesacs on the corners you were missed out. Cost too much to lay a branch cable for a few houses. No, you couldn't complain.
This is reality for millions on millions of people. If you think these commercial realities will either change - or be subsidised to change - by 2030 I'm afraid you are dreaming.
If Farage ever joins the Tories, I'm joining Labour.
The LibDems surely need someone who is distinctive, with a bit of pizzazz, or humour, or something.
Not a suit who''s now best known for his association with one of the grubbiest episodes in public life - however unfair that may be.
https://x.com/bbcsport/status/1745406493086699639?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingston_Independent_Residents_Group
Tory membership head scratching and rejection of their own current (and recent pass) failures.
King of the Water comes along as saviour, joins and wins a by election.
Takes out leader silly enough to let him back in.
https://conservativehome.com/2023/11/22/there-is-no-open-and-shut-case-for-refusing-farage-party-membership-but-a-future-leader-may-regret-it/
Farage said at conference that: “I’d be very surprised if I were not Conservative leader by ‘26. Very surprised.”
What is his goal as LD leader? Presumably to see them do as well as possible in the GE and have more influence in the next parliament. They will not be joining and coalition though, so he is not in-line for a cabinet role.
Arguably, he would do most for the LDs now by resigning as a point of honour.
The Institutional Failures Behind the Post Office Scandal | "Innocent People were Accused of Fraud"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dye_PteQnAo
The Nigel has a simple job. Lie. Tell people who know no better that yes, things are simple, these politicians are making idiots of you and you should vote against them.
The notion that he should lead the Tory party is for the birds. Why would a protest politician want power? Power means reality and complexity and compromise...
https://x.com/bbcbreakfast/status/1745349028609507370
Anger among Conservative MPs at Chris Skidmore is palpable.
I’ve seen WhatsApp messages showing Anna Firth - PPS to the Home Secretary - asking “why should the taxpayer have to keep paying for all these unnecessary byelections?”.
She suggests: “Perhaps the rules need to change such that if an MP causes an unnecessary byelection out of choice within a year of a GE, they should bear the costs”.
Two thumbs up from fellow MPs - including a whip 👀
https://twitter.com/breeallegretti/status/1745378675934089656
Gov. Sununu — who has endorsed Nikki Haley — says he would vote for Donald Trump if he's the Republican nominee even if he’s a convicted felon.
https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1745310777689416163
The blocker is that first point. Why would Reform have bothered with being Reform if the medium-term goal was to take over the Tories? It would have been much easier to say 'the Tories are the Brexit party now; let's take them over'.
https://www.politix.fm/p/taking-january-6-seriously-and-literally
Where it relates to the thread is that social media is very promoting of doomerism. You get more clicks if you say you're in a second Great Depression, climate change will make humans extinct, the US will have a civil war, wokery something something etc.
Faragius et Postum Magistri
(Farage and the Sub Postmasters)
I sing of Faragius, a man of cunning tongue and fiery mien,
Whose words, like barbed arrows, pierced the hearts of Albion's green.
He rose from humble stock, a fishmonger's son so bold,
But soon his ambitions soared, beyond mere scales and gold.
He spoke of empires lost, of glories fading fast,
Of foreign hordes that swarmed, a pestilence amassed.
He blamed the distant Sena, the faceless bureaucrats,
For woes that festered deep, in homes and fields and huts.
His voice, a siren's song, seduced the ears of discontent,
The disenfranchised masses, on broken promises bent.
They hailed him Dux Britanniarum, a savior from the mire,
Who'd lead them back to greatness, bathed in Albion's fire.
But hidden in the shadows, lurked a serpent's treacherous coil,
A scandal primed to erupt, a poisoned cup to boil.
The Postum Magistri, keepers of the Queen's own mail,
Were struck by fate's cruel hand, their livelihoods to fail.
Computers, cold and hard, with logic sharp and keen,
Spat out accusations false, a web of lies obscene.
Good men and women, pillars of their town and trade,
Were cast as villains vile, their reputations flayed.
Faragius, ever keen to fan the flames of discontent,
Seized on this tragedy, his rhetoric heaven-sent.
He painted them as martyrs, pawns in a foreign game,
Betrayed by faceless powers, consumed by bureaucratic shame.
The mob, aroused to fury, with pitchforks and with cries,
Descended on the halls of power, where justice coldly lies.
They stormed the Senate gates, with righteous anger's might,
Demanding retribution, bathed in vengeance's light.
But Faragius, the serpent, had slithered to his den,
Leaving the fires he'd stoked, to consume other men.
He watched from afar, with a smile both sly and grim,
As Albion, self-divided, writhed in chaos's dim.
So ends the tale of Faragius, a demagogue's cruel art,
Who played upon the fears and wounds, to tear his land apart.
And in the wake of fury, as the ashes softly fall,
The Postum Magistri stand, their scars a silent call.
A call for justice true, for wrongs that cannot mend,
A call for reason's light, where shadows once contend.
May Albion hear their plea, and learn from errors past,
Lest Faragius' poisonous words, forever hold her fast.
So won't happen.
2 hrs, 28 mins, 50 secs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V20Urz8r9Q4
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers.
However, he has unfortunately (for him) become the story, fairly or unfairly, and it would actually give the LDs a tremendous boost if he were to step aside on a “I will be honourable and acknowledge faults, why won’t others in the Tory Party do the same”?
As it is he is in danger of this taking over all his campaign interviews/appearances and potentially having a knock on effect on LD votes.
CDU/CSU 29% (-1)
AfD 24% (+1)
SPD 15% (+1)
Green 12% (-2)
FDP 6% (nc)
Left 5% (+1)
FW 2% (nc)
Oth 7% (nc)
https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
The longest journey starts with a single step etc.
"
NY Times
Billions of ‘em
https://x.com/rene_springer/status/1745061387804512694
"We will return foreigners to their homeland. By the millions.
This is not a secret plan. This is a promise.
For more security. For more justice. To preserve our identity. For Germany."
“XL Bully dogs to be banned in Scotland after influx of the breed north of the border”
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/xl-bully-dogs-banned-scotland-31858555
I think Ed Davey has some (minor) questions to answer, and has handled the issue badly so far, but literally NOBODY is talking about the Tories, who have allegedly been running the country since 2010.
This tells us a lot, I think, about how news is manufactured in the UK.
This independence thing is maybe not quite as straightforward as some like to think.
Dunno if there's anyone of such a dispostion on here..
It’s just a lot harder to find a particular Tory to lay the blame on. Davey was unfortunately in the hot seat at the worst moment, the SPMs have named him and shamed him, and he went on to work for the PO’s lawyers for lots of money. And he’s very fond of calling for people to resign
Plenty of that is bad luck. But not all of it
If he were the sole political victim of the saga, it would be grossly unfair. But politics is unfair - and an honourable resignation now would do his reputation no harm.
Actual government has to have big policies on big questions, not populist minutiae about Daily Mail stories. Opposition politics won't do.
Open that Overton window and think big! Let is into the secrets.
My own instinct is that the US has been suffering an inflation hangover. Even with inflation in the rear-view mirror, people still experience what seem to be “high” grocery bills etc. So they feel poorer, even if objectively they are not.
I also think the vibecession is itself dissipating. It’s a 2023 phenomenon which I don’t feel will carry over into 2024.
Regardless, Jake Berry appears to be a moron and some kind of lower-order primate. Astonishing that some on here pick him as next Tory leader.
I've previously come across our local XL Bully (didn't realise it at the time) and he's kept the vet busy stitching up various cockapoos. Also destroyed a tree - the owner trains him to jump up and grab onto branches.
That's the correct response for some new legislation but not for the current issue, massively exacerbated by the move in England to indirectly export them to Scotland.
Presumably, in their second term they will end poverty, cure cancer, end global conflict, and provide free unicorns for all.
However, Haley was already the prime challenger to Trump. Iowa might or might not demonstrate that but New Hampshire will. But it's far from Trump's worst nightmare: the field was always going to thin and as long as he's polling ~60% nationally among primary voters, he can stroll to the convention. His nightmare scenario is being booted out by the courts.
If I had a pound for every time I came across people involved in investigating, delivering or fixing IT issues saying: 'I'm not really technical', I'd be posting this from my yacht in the Caribbean.
If you're not technically minded why the f*ck are you taking the salary and pretending to do the job? Grrr!!
In which case, if they can't fix anything because of "others", what is the point of them anyway?
What that does not do is mean that Starmer does not have questions to answer.
"... humble seekers after truth, such as yourself,"
You're better than that.
We’ve had many (welcome) headlines about the scandal in recent days. The vast majority make no mention of Davey. I doubt this has cut through with the public yet. Maybe it will in the future (a credible independent campaign in his constituency seems more of a threat). But there is currently no groundswell of opinion that will force Davey out.
Sunak has been fined by the police for breaking the law twice, and no one even bothers to mention it these days. Most issues that lead to calls for politicians’ resignations go nowhere.
It would be great to see some polling on all this. How many of the public are paying attention? Who do they think is to blame?
Two things follow.
The important one is that the only Conservative hope is to establish a narrative that everyone else is as bad as them. Which is what the client press are running with.
The less important one is that some of the criticism is, at least a bit, justified. Probably not much, but some.
"If you’re saying it’s “Morning in America” when 77 percent of Americans think the country is on the wrong track, you’re preaching to the wrong choir — and the wrong country.
Trump’s opponents say this is the most important election of our lifetime. Isn’t it time, then, to take our heads out of the sand?"
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/11/opinion/columnists/donald-trump-election.html
Had this sort of poll been published 10 years ago, it would have been both shocking and not credible. By contrast, AfD polling in the 20s is now normalised. Yes, this is at the top-end of their scores but nothing too out of the ordinary - and each time they tick up a point or half point, that becomes the new normal.
Just as Trump attempting to overthrow the tenets of free speech, the rule of law and democracy in the US is the new normal. Just as Le Pen getting 40%+ in a run-off is a new normal. Just as populist right candidates entering and at times leading governments across Europe - and across other parts of the OECD - is a new normal. Just as a fascist regime in the Kremlin is a new normal. See also Turkey and Israel for two sides of the populist-religious coin. And on and on.
At some point, something might shock us out of the Syndrome but at the moment, it seems more likely to shock in retrospect than in the moment.
* It should be Freezing Frog Syndrome really. Frogs in heating water do notice it getting hot and will jump out if they can; in cooling water, being cold-blooded, their lack of energy makes them drowsy and they can ultimately freeze to death.
If the Tories don’t want to pay £250k for a by-election, they could have delayed calling the writ and then had a May general election. Problem solved!
Or, alternatively, they could pick better candidates? Or maybe they could stop U-turning on their own policies?