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An inauspicious start to 2024 for Sunak – politicalbetting.com

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,981
    edited January 5

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris Skidmore wrote a book about the death of Amy Robsart.

    Does anyone know whether his departure from the HoC will leave no Tory MP in the chamber with a brain?

    Oh, sorry - just read that he supported Truss for the leadership. His brain must have dropped out 2010x2022.
    OK, an eccentric with principles.
    The Tories should have stuck with Truss, her team and her agenda. It only became an issue becuase Sunak loving MPs rebelled against her Instantly.

    Starmer is saying growth growth growth and build on green belts in exactly the same way, yet it’s popular when he says it?
    They could have done but would be heading for less than 50 seats and maybe not even official opposition let alone holding power on her last polls as leader.

    Starmer may want more development like Truss but is not proposing to slash the additional income tax rate, scrap corporation tax rises and end the cap on bankers' bonuses as she and Kwarteng were pushing. If he was I doubt he would last long as Labour leader
    Isn't Starmer talking about re-enforcing the OBR, the exact opposite of what Truss did, part of what led her to lose all credibility with the markets.
    Just to note that today's poll has the Cons holding less than 100 seats. No doubt an outlier and slightly better than under La Truss but its arguabe she would have performed that much of a 'dead cat bounce' herself!

    Mr Sunak has to aim for the by-elections to be on local election day doesn't he? Better to take (and try to distract from) one bad day than to suffer death by a thousand cuts.
    Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

    Condemned prisoners don't ask for their execution to be brought forward.

    The election will be as late as Sunak can get away with. If he thinks he can get away with January 2025, it'd be then, but even he won't be able to push it that late so October is more realistic.
    This was obviously what the fixed term parliament act was supposed to solve, so we all knew when it would be, plans could be made by politicians, business, etc. But we found that wasn't worth the paper was written on.
    Quite right too.

    If Parliament is no longer capable of doing its business, then that Parliament should be dissolved. As happened to the 2017-19 Parliament, imagine if that farce hadn't been terminated?

    What we have now is a different matter, a fag end dying government waiting to be put out of its misery - but that happens under fixed term Parliaments too.
    This is true, but we don't know if that will be 6 months or 12 months time. It many more months of uncertainty, but nobody know how many.
  • I thought yeaterday perfectly exemplified something.

    Con strategists did a great job in taking the air out of Starmer's sails and blotting out his speech. That was clearly their aim and they achieved it. So mission accomplished?

    Up to a point, Lord Copper.

    They did it by having Mr Sunak appear all over the media and press declaring that he was NOT going to do what a large majority of the population has repeatedly said that it wants.

    Strikes me that may not be a very wise long-term decision. HINT - Lab don't have Mr Sunak on the front of so much of their publicity because they think he is popular!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,701

    Johnson's latest for the Mail:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-12930745/BORIS-JOHNSON-burn-Christmas-tree.html

    Moaning about not being able to burn 'wet' wood like his massive xmas tree. Government over-reach, woke madness, didn't happen in 1950s Somerset etc etc.


    Meanwhile - back in reality:

    This was introduced whilst Johnson was PM in 2021 by his old brexit mucker - Mikey Gove.



    I don't know how much they are paying him, but he is phoning it in even more than when he did his Telegraph column. That's multiple times he has written such an article.
    They are paying him a shedload apparently.

    They are probably just glad the copy actually arrives before the deadline given Johnson's past as a journo.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,981
    edited January 5

    Johnson's latest for the Mail:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-12930745/BORIS-JOHNSON-burn-Christmas-tree.html

    Moaning about not being able to burn 'wet' wood like his massive xmas tree. Government over-reach, woke madness, didn't happen in 1950s Somerset etc etc.


    Meanwhile - back in reality:

    This was introduced whilst Johnson was PM in 2021 by his old brexit mucker - Mikey Gove.



    I don't know how much they are paying him, but he is phoning it in even more than when he did his Telegraph column. That's multiple times he has written such an article.
    They are paying him a shedload apparently.

    They are probably just glad the copy actually arrives before the deadline given Johnson's past as a journo.

    Given the low effort of his Daily Mail columns, GB News should be very worried.
  • HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris Skidmore wrote a book about the death of Amy Robsart.

    Does anyone know whether his departure from the HoC will leave no Tory MP in the chamber with a brain?

    Oh, sorry - just read that he supported Truss for the leadership. His brain must have dropped out 2010x2022.
    OK, an eccentric with principles.
    The Tories should have stuck with Truss, her team and her agenda. It only became an issue becuase Sunak loving MPs rebelled against her Instantly.

    Starmer is saying growth growth growth and build on green belts in exactly the same way, yet it’s popular when he says it?
    They could have done but would be heading for less than 50 seats and maybe not even official opposition let alone holding power on her last polls as leader.

    Starmer may want more development like Truss but is not proposing to slash the additional income tax rate, scrap corporation tax rises and end the cap on bankers' bonuses as she and Kwarteng were pushing. If he was I doubt he would last long as Labour leader
    Isn't Starmer talking about re-enforcing the OBR, the exact opposite of what Truss did, part of what led her to lose all credibility with the markets.
    Just to note that today's poll has the Cons holding less than 100 seats. No doubt an outlier and slightly better than under La Truss but its arguabe she would have performed that much of a 'dead cat bounce' herself!

    Mr Sunak has to aim for the by-elections to be on local election day doesn't he? Better to take (and try to distract from) one bad day than to suffer death by a thousand cuts.
    Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

    Condemned prisoners don't ask for their execution to be brought forward.

    The election will be as late as Sunak can get away with. If he thinks he can get away with January 2025, it'd be then, but even he won't be able to push it that late so October is more realistic.
    The full phrase is "Turkeys voting for an early Christmas".

    It was used by Jim Callaghan to describe the Liberals' support for the vote of no confidence against his government in 1979 with six months left on the parliamentary clock.
    According to Wiki the phrase predates 1979 and originally didn't have the word early in it.

    The Oxford Dictionary of Humorous Quotations writes that a commentator in the Independent Magazine traced the origin of the phrase to British Liberal Party politician David Penhaligon,[2] who is quoted as saying: "Us voting for the Pact is like a turkey voting for Christmas" in reference to the 1977 Lib–Lab pact which he opposed.[3]
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Johnson's latest for the Mail:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-12930745/BORIS-JOHNSON-burn-Christmas-tree.html

    Moaning about not being able to burn 'wet' wood like his massive xmas tree. Government over-reach, woke madness, didn't happen in 1950s Somerset etc etc.


    Meanwhile - back in reality:

    This was introduced whilst Johnson was PM in 2021 by his old brexit mucker - Mikey Gove.



    I don't know how much they are paying him, but he is phoning it in even more than when he did his Telegraph column. That's multiple times he has written such an article.
    They are paying him a shedload apparently.

    They are probably just glad the copy actually arrives before the deadline given Johnson's past as a journo.

    Quite possible that process of extracting copy from Boris Johnson closely resembles that required back in the day re: Dr. Hunter S. Thompson.

    With perhaps more yelling and screaming?
  • How would PBers feel about having a th-fronting surgeon or pilot?

    Or Postie? :lol:
    I've discovered that erudition in a Postie is rarely appreciated
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,981
    edited January 5

    Johnson's latest for the Mail:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-12930745/BORIS-JOHNSON-burn-Christmas-tree.html

    Moaning about not being able to burn 'wet' wood like his massive xmas tree. Government over-reach, woke madness, didn't happen in 1950s Somerset etc etc.


    Meanwhile - back in reality:

    This was introduced whilst Johnson was PM in 2021 by his old brexit mucker - Mikey Gove.



    I don't know how much they are paying him, but he is phoning it in even more than when he did his Telegraph column. That's multiple times he has written such an article.
    They are paying him a shedload apparently.

    They are probably just glad the copy actually arrives before the deadline given Johnson's past as a journo.

    Quite possible that process of extracting copy from Boris Johnson closely resembles that required back in the day re: Dr. Hunter S. Thompson.

    With perhaps more yelling and screaming?
    The famous story of when he was at the Telegraph was that he would make the deadline every week (just), but it would come from a different email every week. When questioned about why this was the case, it transpired that what was happening was he was rocking up for Sunday lunch at different people's homes and would tap out his column on the family pc in the couple of hours before dinner was served.

    The quality of his Mail columns suggests its more like a couple of minutes, rather than couple of hours.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    edited January 5

    dixiedean said:

    Boy oh boy is Starmer ever lucky?
    If he could have picked a place for a by election surely this would be near the top?
    South of England.11.4% swing needed. Near Bristol. No LD strength.

    Not necessarily. Skidmore's constituency will disappear at the general election so a by-election is unlikely to tempt any real high-flyers on the Labour (or any) side.
    One chunk goes into the new Bristol NE, where Labour have a candidate in place. The other main successor is Somerset NE, currently the base of everyone's favourite Top Hat wearer.
    So. Lots of publicity and the chance to be in pole position to do a Stephen Twigg on JRM in less than a year?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,628
    Well

    Two more loans by Nicola Sturgeon’s husband to the SNP should have been declared earlier, the elections watchdog has ruled.

    The Electoral Commission said enforcement action could be taken over the 2018 loans by Peter Murrell, the party’s then-chief executive.

    But the commission said it could only consider the matter after the conclusion of the ongoing police investigation into the SNP’s finances.

    Mr Murrell made two loans of £7,500 to the party, which were recently published on the commission’s website. The first of these started on March 22, 2018, and the second started on April 25.

    They were both repaid in full shortly after starting, with the second one being completely repaid within two days.

    The SNP has said these were “short-term loans” but the party has not elaborated further on what they were for. Loans to a party which aggregate more than £7,500 in the calendar year are required to be declared.

    They are separate from a loan of more than £100,000 which Mr Murrell gave to the party in June 2021. Some of this money was yet to be repaid last year.

    Mr Murrell was arrested last April by police investigating the SNP’s finances and the home he shared with Ms Sturgeon searched.

    A luxury motorhome was confiscated from outside his mother’s house.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/01/05/loans-peter-murrell-nicola-sturgeon-snp-declared-late/
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,214

    I thought yeaterday perfectly exemplified something.

    Con strategists did a great job in taking the air out of Starmer's sails and blotting out his speech. That was clearly their aim and they achieved it. So mission accomplished?

    Up to a point, Lord Copper.

    They did it by having Mr Sunak appear all over the media and press declaring that he was NOT going to do what a large majority of the population has repeatedly said that it wants.

    Strikes me that may not be a very wise long-term decision. HINT - Lab don't have Mr Sunak on the front of so much of their publicity because they think he is popular!

    Sunak's problem in a nutshell.

    He has the intelligence to find answers to questions.

    He doesn't have the... what is it? to consider whether they're the right questions.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    edited January 5
    Have we done this? (found it by accident: West Linton is a wee place on the hillfoot road south of Edinburgh to Carlisle)

    https://www.bordertelegraph.com/news/24030400.nfsp-mr-bates-vs-post-office-boycott-cause-harm/

    "A WEST Linton postmaster is calling on the public not to boycott the Post Office over a popular ITV drama.

    [...]

    However, West Linton postmaster and NFSP (National Federation of Subpostmasters) chief executive Calum Greenhow believes a boycott would cause harm to postmasters' businesses."
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,981
    edited January 5
    Just when you think Joey Barton can't go any lower....

    https://x.com/Joey7Barton/status/1743351660444074239?s=20

    Hope he saved all his money from playing days, because I doubt he will ever get a job in footy (certainly not the media) again.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984

    When I saw "Kingswood" I was reminded of the Kingswood in Surrey, on the Tattenham Corner line.

    One of those odd things my brain decided to remember from my early commuting adulthood: New Cross gate, Brockley, Honor Oak park, Forest Hill, Sydenham, Penge west, Anerley, Norwood junction, east Croydon, south Croydon, Purley oaks, Purley, Reedham, Smitham, Woodmansterne, Chipstead, Kingswood, Tadworth and Tattenham Corner.

    Places I have never visited, beyond Croydon, and of which I know little, yet forever embedded in memory from the announcements at London Bridge.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    dixiedean said:

    Boy oh boy is Starmer ever lucky?
    If he could have picked a place for a by election surely this would be near the top?
    South of England.11.4% swing needed. Near Bristol. No LD strength.

    Not necessarily. Skidmore's constituency will disappear at the general election so a by-election is unlikely to tempt any real high-flyers on the Labour (or any) side.
    One chunk goes into the new Bristol NE, where Labour have a candidate in place. The other main successor is Somerset NE, currently the base of everyone's favourite Top Hat wearer.
    My favorite Top Hat wearer was, is and will always be Mr. Peanut.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    A tale of two shops in Wellingborough ahead of the likely by-election: Peter Bone’s (right) and Labour’s (left) …👇

    image
    image
    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/1743222358758810050?s=20

    Looks very much like a Grocers/Corner shop. If that were a right wing party’s campaign against an Asian left winger…
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,981
    edited January 5
    Owen Farrell is on the verge of turning his back on English rugby with the Saracens fly-half in advanced talks to sign for French club Racing 92, Telegraph Sport understands.

    Farrell’s contract with Saracens, his boyhood club, runs out at the end of this season and, in a bombshell development, the club overseen by former England head coach Stuart Lancaster on the outskirts of Paris are closing in on the signature of England’s best known player.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/01/05/owen-farrell-latest-racing-92-saracens-england/

    At this rate, England national team will be the second 15 team. They are going to have to change the rules.

    I am surprised the rule hasn't been challenged in court, as it is restriction of trade, given they earn £25k an appearance (which means playing for England can make up the vast majority of their potential income per year).
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,800
    So this dickhead thinks that we are wrong to extract oil and gas from the North Sea instead of, err, buying it from benevolent dictatorships like Saudi and Qatar?
    And he was an Energy Minister??

    FFS, he sure as hell doesn’t sound like much of a loss. Presumably he has got a well paid gig somewhere else if he is so keen to get out of Parliament.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    Being reported that Gerisimov - one of the Russian top three with Shoigu and Putin - has been killed in an airstrike in Sevastopol.


    Twitter is no longer a news source. They made it worse and worse by optimizing for engagement then Elon Musk bought it and finished it off.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,605
    edited January 5

    Being reported that Gerisimov - one of the Russian top three with Shoigu and Putin - has been killed in an airstrike in Sevastopol.

    Twitter is no longer a news source. They made it worse and worse by optimizing for engagement then Elon Musk bought it and finished it off.
    How are false rumours Elon Musk's fault?
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Rishi just needs to bring this to a close now and call the GE for 2 May.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,421
    Carnyx said:

    Have we done this? (found it by accident: West Linton is a wee place on the hillfoot road south of Edinburgh to Carlisle)

    https://www.bordertelegraph.com/news/24030400.nfsp-mr-bates-vs-post-office-boycott-cause-harm/

    "A WEST Linton postmaster is calling on the public not to boycott the Post Office over a popular ITV drama.

    [...]

    However, West Linton postmaster and NFSP (National Federation of Subpostmasters) chief executive Calum Greenhow believes a boycott would cause harm to postmasters' businesses."

    Well, if he and his union had done half of what they ought to have done, the whole situation would be entirely different.

    And thanks to @IanB2 for his answers to my questions on the previous thread. I only hope those facts come to public, and the Inquiry’s, attention.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779

    I thought yeaterday perfectly exemplified something.

    Con strategists did a great job in taking the air out of Starmer's sails and blotting out his speech. That was clearly their aim and they achieved it. So mission accomplished?

    Up to a point, Lord Copper.

    They did it by having Mr Sunak appear all over the media and press declaring that he was NOT going to do what a large majority of the population has repeatedly said that it wants.

    Strikes me that may not be a very wise long-term decision. HINT - Lab don't have Mr Sunak on the front of so much of their publicity because they think he is popular!

    Sunak's problem in a nutshell.

    He has the intelligence to find answers to questions.

    He doesn't have the... what is it? to consider whether they're the right questions.
    42.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    How would PBers feel about having a th-fronting surgeon or pilot?

    What does th-fronting mean?
    I fink vat it's vis

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th-fronting
    OK. My assumption is that anyone with a "working class" accent in a "good" job is probably far more capable than someone talking plummy RP in the same position, because they will have had to be to overcome the disgusting class prejudice that still disfigures this country. So I'd be glad to have a surgeon who talks like "vis".
    I have encountered quite a few fake 'working class' accents over the years. Particularly noticeable at university and in the civil service.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,214
    ohnotnow said:

    I thought yeaterday perfectly exemplified something.

    Con strategists did a great job in taking the air out of Starmer's sails and blotting out his speech. That was clearly their aim and they achieved it. So mission accomplished?

    Up to a point, Lord Copper.

    They did it by having Mr Sunak appear all over the media and press declaring that he was NOT going to do what a large majority of the population has repeatedly said that it wants.

    Strikes me that may not be a very wise long-term decision. HINT - Lab don't have Mr Sunak on the front of so much of their publicity because they think he is popular!

    Sunak's problem in a nutshell.

    He has the intelligence to find answers to questions.

    He doesn't have the... what is it? to consider whether they're the right questions.
    42.
    Labour's vote share when the election happens?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930

    When I saw "Kingswood" I was reminded of the Kingswood in Surrey, on the Tattenham Corner line.

    It's also the junction between the Stratford and Grand Union canals in Warwickshire.
    So probably currently underwater.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399

    Owen Farrell is on the verge of turning his back on English rugby with the Saracens fly-half in advanced talks to sign for French club Racing 92, Telegraph Sport understands.

    Farrell’s contract with Saracens, his boyhood club, runs out at the end of this season and, in a bombshell development, the club overseen by former England head coach Stuart Lancaster on the outskirts of Paris are closing in on the signature of England’s best known player.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/01/05/owen-farrell-latest-racing-92-saracens-england/

    At this rate, England national team will be the second 15 team. They are going to have to change the rules.

    I am surprised the rule hasn't been challenged in court, as it is restriction of trade, given they earn £25k an appearance (which means playing for England can make up the vast majority of their potential income per year).

    He's 32, won't make the next World Cup, and gets booed and is the scapegoat for much which isn't his fault anyway.
    Who can blame him? It'll be his last big pay day.

    PS. His boyhood club was Wigan St.Patrick's. Like me.
  • Who had heard of th-fronting before I mentioned it?

    I only looked it up half an hour ago
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399

    Rishi just needs to bring this to a close now and call the GE for 2 May.

    Yes.
    The "something may turn up" may be true.
    But, at the moment that something is always a very bad thing.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,981
    edited January 5
    dixiedean said:

    Owen Farrell is on the verge of turning his back on English rugby with the Saracens fly-half in advanced talks to sign for French club Racing 92, Telegraph Sport understands.

    Farrell’s contract with Saracens, his boyhood club, runs out at the end of this season and, in a bombshell development, the club overseen by former England head coach Stuart Lancaster on the outskirts of Paris are closing in on the signature of England’s best known player.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/01/05/owen-farrell-latest-racing-92-saracens-england/

    At this rate, England national team will be the second 15 team. They are going to have to change the rules.

    I am surprised the rule hasn't been challenged in court, as it is restriction of trade, given they earn £25k an appearance (which means playing for England can make up the vast majority of their potential income per year).

    He's 32, won't make the next World Cup, and gets booed and is the scapegoat for much which isn't his fault anyway.
    Who can blame him? It'll be his last big pay day.

    PS. His boyhood club was Wigan St.Patrick's. Like me.
    I don't blame any of these players going to France. They are getting big money not widely available in England.

    Its the RFU with their absolutely stupid rule. It isn't as if they are going to playing NZ, where yes then there is an issue about availability, about travel distance, etc. Playing in Paris is nearer than playing in Newcastle in terms of getting to Twickers.

    They also causing big problems now they have moved to this autumn internationals + 6 nations, which means clubs lose their star players for half of the games per season...that has to hurt the bottom line. Unlike the football, where they program in international breaks, so the clubs still have their star players for all the big games.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930
    darkage said:

    How would PBers feel about having a th-fronting surgeon or pilot?

    What does th-fronting mean?
    I fink vat it's vis

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th-fronting
    OK. My assumption is that anyone with a "working class" accent in a "good" job is probably far more capable than someone talking plummy RP in the same position, because they will have had to be to overcome the disgusting class prejudice that still disfigures this country. So I'd be glad to have a surgeon who talks like "vis".
    I have encountered quite a few fake 'working class' accents over the years. Particularly noticeable at university and in the civil service.
    Nobody does glottal stops like Social Workers!
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,294

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris Skidmore wrote a book about the death of Amy Robsart.

    Does anyone know whether his departure from the HoC will leave no Tory MP in the chamber with a brain?

    Oh, sorry - just read that he supported Truss for the leadership. His brain must have dropped out 2010x2022.
    OK, an eccentric with principles.
    The Tories should have stuck with Truss, her team and her agenda. It only became an issue becuase Sunak loving MPs rebelled against her Instantly.

    Starmer is saying growth growth growth and build on green belts in exactly the same way, yet it’s popular when he says it?
    They could have done but would be heading for less than 50 seats and maybe not even official opposition let alone holding power on her last polls as leader.

    Starmer may want more development like Truss but is not proposing to slash the additional income tax rate, scrap corporation tax rises and end the cap on bankers' bonuses as she and Kwarteng were pushing. If he was I doubt he would last long as Labour leader
    Isn't Starmer talking about re-enforcing the OBR, the exact opposite of what Truss did, part of what led her to lose all credibility with the markets.
    Just to note that today's poll has the Cons holding less than 100 seats. No doubt an outlier and slightly better than under La Truss but its arguabe she would have performed that much of a 'dead cat bounce' herself!

    Mr Sunak has to aim for the by-elections to be on local election day doesn't he? Better to take (and try to distract from) one bad day than to suffer death by a thousand cuts.
    Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

    Condemned prisoners don't ask for their execution to be brought forward.

    The election will be as late as Sunak can get away with. If he thinks he can get away with January 2025, it'd be then, but even he won't be able to push it that late so October is more realistic.
    Makes sense to me. But Sunak might not fancy campaigning over Christmas... if he gets it out the way in October he can be in California for the Winter.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,871

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris Skidmore wrote a book about the death of Amy Robsart.

    Does anyone know whether his departure from the HoC will leave no Tory MP in the chamber with a brain?

    Oh, sorry - just read that he supported Truss for the leadership. His brain must have dropped out 2010x2022.
    OK, an eccentric with principles.
    The Tories should have stuck with Truss, her team and her agenda. It only became an issue becuase Sunak loving MPs rebelled against her Instantly.

    Starmer is saying growth growth growth and build on green belts in exactly the same way, yet it’s popular when he says it?
    They could have done but would be heading for less than 50 seats and maybe not even official opposition let alone holding power on her last polls as leader.

    Starmer may want more development like Truss but is not proposing to slash the additional income tax rate, scrap corporation tax rises and end the cap on bankers' bonuses as she and Kwarteng were pushing. If he was I doubt he would last long as Labour leader
    Isn't Starmer talking about re-enforcing the OBR, the exact opposite of what Truss did, part of what led her to lose all credibility with the markets.
    Just to note that today's poll has the Cons holding less than 100 seats. No doubt an outlier and slightly better than under La Truss but its arguabe she would have performed that much of a 'dead cat bounce' herself!

    Mr Sunak has to aim for the by-elections to be on local election day doesn't he? Better to take (and try to distract from) one bad day than to suffer death by a thousand cuts.
    Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

    Condemned prisoners don't ask for their execution to be brought forward.

    The election will be as late as Sunak can get away with. If he thinks he can get away with January 2025, it'd be then, but even he won't be able to push it that late so October is more realistic.
    Of course, it's human nature. He has less than a year of enjoying the trappings of power before he is not just thrown out of No.10 but likely into political obscurity at just 44 years of age. As someone once said there's nothing more ex than an ex-Prime Minister. He could of course continue as an MP and might serve one day in a future Conservative Government (I mean, he has an example sitting next to him at the Cabinet table) but his days of real influence and power will be over.

    He doesn't want to let that go - I wouldn't.

    There's a fair argument the longer he goes on the bigger the defeat and the longer the road back for the party. Perhaps - perhaps not. The We Think poll is just plain awful and the more opportunities people get the more they seem to enjoy kicking the Conservatives, anathema and absurdity as it may be to some.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,394

    dixiedean said:

    Owen Farrell is on the verge of turning his back on English rugby with the Saracens fly-half in advanced talks to sign for French club Racing 92, Telegraph Sport understands.

    Farrell’s contract with Saracens, his boyhood club, runs out at the end of this season and, in a bombshell development, the club overseen by former England head coach Stuart Lancaster on the outskirts of Paris are closing in on the signature of England’s best known player.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/01/05/owen-farrell-latest-racing-92-saracens-england/

    At this rate, England national team will be the second 15 team. They are going to have to change the rules.

    I am surprised the rule hasn't been challenged in court, as it is restriction of trade, given they earn £25k an appearance (which means playing for England can make up the vast majority of their potential income per year).

    He's 32, won't make the next World Cup, and gets booed and is the scapegoat for much which isn't his fault anyway.
    Who can blame him? It'll be his last big pay day.

    PS. His boyhood club was Wigan St.Patrick's. Like me.
    I don't blame any of these players going to France. They are getting big money not widely available in England.

    Its the RFU with their absolutely stupid rule. It isn't as if they are going to playing NZ, where yes then there is an issue about availability, about travel distance, etc. Playing in Paris is nearly than playing in Newcastle in terms of getting to Twickers.

    They also causing big problems now they have moved to this autumn internationals + 6 nations, which means clubs lose their star players for half of the games per season...that has to hurt the bottom line. Unlike the football, where they program in international breaks, so the clubs still have their star players for all the big games.
    The issue is more about number of games that players play, plus international breaks not always aligning. It's not like football where the premier league doesn't play when internationals are on. And you can't play mid week as the recovery is too long. And yes, it's restraint of trade too, so wil surely get challenged in the end.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,897
    edited January 5

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris Skidmore wrote a book about the death of Amy Robsart.

    Does anyone know whether his departure from the HoC will leave no Tory MP in the chamber with a brain?

    Oh, sorry - just read that he supported Truss for the leadership. His brain must have dropped out 2010x2022.
    OK, an eccentric with principles.
    The Tories should have stuck with Truss, her team and her agenda. It only became an issue becuase Sunak loving MPs rebelled against her Instantly.

    Starmer is saying growth growth growth and build on green belts in exactly the same way, yet it’s popular when he says it?
    They could have done but would be heading for less than 50 seats and maybe not even official opposition let alone holding power on her last polls as leader.

    Starmer may want more development like Truss but is not proposing to slash the additional income tax rate, scrap corporation tax rises and end the cap on bankers' bonuses as she and Kwarteng were pushing. If he was I doubt he would last long as Labour leader
    Isn't Starmer talking about re-enforcing the OBR, the exact opposite of what Truss did, part of what led her to lose all credibility with the markets.
    Just to note that today's poll has the Cons holding less than 100 seats. No doubt an outlier and slightly better than under La Truss but its arguabe she would have performed that much of a 'dead cat bounce' herself!

    Mr Sunak has to aim for the by-elections to be on local election day doesn't he? Better to take (and try to distract from) one bad day than to suffer death by a thousand cuts.
    You are talking about the latest WeThink poll I assume giving the Tories 97 seats?
    https://twitter.com/wethinkpolling/status/1743286769598996790

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=25&LAB=47&LIB=9&Reform=10&Green=5&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=16&SCOTLAB=33.1&SCOTLIB=6&SCOTReform=1.5&SCOTGreen=2.5&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=36.9&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase

    Well the last Redfield poll under Truss' premiership for instance had the Tories on just 6 seats and the LDs as the main opposition to a Starmer government

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-53/

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=19&LAB=55&LIB=12&Reform=4&Green=4&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=16&SCOTLAB=33.1&SCOTLIB=6&SCOTReform=1.5&SCOTGreen=2.5&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=36.9&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779

    darkage said:

    How would PBers feel about having a th-fronting surgeon or pilot?

    What does th-fronting mean?
    I fink vat it's vis

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th-fronting
    OK. My assumption is that anyone with a "working class" accent in a "good" job is probably far more capable than someone talking plummy RP in the same position, because they will have had to be to overcome the disgusting class prejudice that still disfigures this country. So I'd be glad to have a surgeon who talks like "vis".
    I have encountered quite a few fake 'working class' accents over the years. Particularly noticeable at university and in the civil service.
    Nobody does glottal stops like Social Workers!
    Except Socialist Workers newspaper sellers. Right dyed in the wool working class, is our Tarquin. Top marks in his 3rd year essay 'The Global West: Why are they all so awful, why isn't Corbyn PM, and isn't Biarritz lovely?'
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,344
    Skidmore sounds like a complete tosser.

    Unfortunately, he’s typical of the Parliamentary Party.

    They’ve let down every single person who voted for them in 2010 -19.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779
    DavidL said:

    So this dickhead thinks that we are wrong to extract oil and gas from the North Sea instead of, err, buying it from benevolent dictatorships like Saudi and Qatar?
    And he was an Energy Minister??

    FFS, he sure as hell doesn’t sound like much of a loss. Presumably he has got a well paid gig somewhere else if he is so keen to get out of Parliament.

    Quite possibly acting as a go-between for middle-east oil. It'd be a very good reason to shut down ours if I was a prospective out-of-work Tory minister...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,408
    On topic, what a self-indulgent nitwit.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    TimS said:

    When I saw "Kingswood" I was reminded of the Kingswood in Surrey, on the Tattenham Corner line.

    One of those odd things my brain decided to remember from my early commuting adulthood: New Cross gate, Brockley, Honor Oak park, Forest Hill, Sydenham, Penge west, Anerley, Norwood junction, east Croydon, south Croydon, Purley oaks, Purley, Reedham, Smitham, Woodmansterne, Chipstead, Kingswood, Tadworth and Tattenham Corner.

    Places I have never visited, beyond Croydon, and of which I know little, yet forever embedded in memory from the announcements at London Bridge.
    Tilehurst, Pangbourne, Goring-on-Streatley, Cholsey, Didcot Parkway, Oxford...
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    Being reported that Gerisimov - one of the Russian top three with Shoigu and Putin - has been killed in an airstrike in Sevastopol.

    Twitter is no longer a news source. They made it worse and worse by optimizing for engagement then Elon Musk bought it and finished it off.
    How are false rumours Elon Musk's fault?
    The fact that they're being circulated among news junkies and then posted here is Twitter's fault. Like I said some of the decline predates Elon Musk.

    Twitter algorithmically boosts accounts that write bollocks. This is a combination of boosting things that drive engagement, boosting the replies of people who pay for Twitter who for whatever reason turn out not to be the smartest people on the internet, and breaking the verification system which makes it harder to tell which accounts are authentic.

    This has caused people who can tell the difference between news and bollocks to gradually leave the platform, so the people who remain are dumber and more inclined to circulate bollocks, which creates a self-reinforcing cycle.

    This wouldn't matter to us here except that it used to be quite a good news source that would organically boost things you should pay attention to, so people got in the habit of cross-posting things they see there over here, and people who haven't got the memo are still doing that, not realizing it's now a bad idea.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,777
    Off topic: I've just noticed that Derby City Council's leader, and I think Labour candidate for Derby South, rejoices in the splendid name of Baggy Shanker.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    Sean_F said:

    Skidmore sounds like a complete tosser.

    Unfortunately, he’s typical of the Parliamentary Party.

    They’ve let down every single person who voted for them in 2010 -19.

    Just imagine how those of us who didn't vote for them feel!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,777

    dixiedean said:

    Owen Farrell is on the verge of turning his back on English rugby with the Saracens fly-half in advanced talks to sign for French club Racing 92, Telegraph Sport understands.

    Farrell’s contract with Saracens, his boyhood club, runs out at the end of this season and, in a bombshell development, the club overseen by former England head coach Stuart Lancaster on the outskirts of Paris are closing in on the signature of England’s best known player.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/01/05/owen-farrell-latest-racing-92-saracens-england/

    At this rate, England national team will be the second 15 team. They are going to have to change the rules.

    I am surprised the rule hasn't been challenged in court, as it is restriction of trade, given they earn £25k an appearance (which means playing for England can make up the vast majority of their potential income per year).

    He's 32, won't make the next World Cup, and gets booed and is the scapegoat for much which isn't his fault anyway.
    Who can blame him? It'll be his last big pay day.

    PS. His boyhood club was Wigan St.Patrick's. Like me.
    I don't blame any of these players going to France. They are getting big money not widely available in England.

    Its the RFU with their absolutely stupid rule. It isn't as if they are going to playing NZ, where yes then there is an issue about availability, about travel distance, etc. Playing in Paris is nearly than playing in Newcastle in terms of getting to Twickers.

    They also causing big problems now they have moved to this autumn internationals + 6 nations, which means clubs lose their star players for half of the games per season...that has to hurt the bottom line. Unlike the football, where they program in international breaks, so the clubs still have their star players for all the big games.
    The issue is more about number of games that players play, plus international breaks not always aligning. It's not like football where the premier league doesn't play when internationals are on. And you can't play mid week as the recovery is too long. And yes, it's restraint of trade too, so wil surely get challenged in the end.
    I don't think it's restraint of trade. Surely the RFU can pick whom it likes to play for England?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Who had heard of th-fronting before I mentioned it?

    I only looked it up half an hour ago

    On that basis alone, you are fully qualified to write, produce and post on YouTube "Complete History and Shocking Story of Th-Fronting".

    Illustrated in first instance by buxom young woman in tight T-shirt emblazoned "Come Th-Fronting with Me!"
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,344
    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    Skidmore sounds like a complete tosser.

    Unfortunately, he’s typical of the Parliamentary Party.

    They’ve let down every single person who voted for them in 2010 -19.

    Just imagine how those of us who didn't vote for them feel!
    Not so bad, I imagine, for you always knew that they were pieces of human excrement.

    It’s those of us who voted and even campaigned for them who feel like mugs. These arsehats were just laughing up their sleeves at us, the whole time.


  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    With respect to Th-Fronting, how long before Ron DeSantis denounces it on the campaign trail, promises immediate state action in Florida to ban it being taught (or whatever) to minors, and pledging that passage of Anti-Th-Fronting Amendment to US Constitution will be top priority for his First 100 Days as President.
  • With respect to Th-Fronting, how long before Ron DeSantis denounces it on the campaign trail, promises immediate state action in Florida to ban it being taught (or whatever) to minors, and pledging that passage of Anti-Th-Fronting Amendment to US Constitution will be top priority for his First 100 Days as President.

    I don't think any of you Yanks do it, even when you're trying to imitate Cockneys
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Cookie said:

    Off topic: I've just noticed that Derby City Council's leader, and I think Labour candidate for Derby South, rejoices in the splendid name of Baggy Shanker.

    When I was a kid in West Virginia, there was (sadly unsuccessful) candidate for governor - Peter D. Beter

    Goes without saying that PDB had tremendous name recognition with 12-year-old boys.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    Being reported that Gerisimov - one of the Russian top three with Shoigu and Putin - has been killed in an airstrike in Sevastopol.

    Twitter is no longer a news source. They made it worse and worse by optimizing for engagement then Elon Musk bought it and finished it off.
    How are false rumours Elon Musk's fault?
    The fact that they're being circulated among news junkies and then posted here is Twitter's fault. Like I said some of the decline predates Elon Musk.

    Twitter algorithmically boosts accounts that write bollocks. This is a combination of boosting things that drive engagement, boosting the replies of people who pay for Twitter who for whatever reason turn out not to be the smartest people on the internet, and breaking the verification system which makes it harder to tell which accounts are authentic.

    This has caused people who can tell the difference between news and bollocks to gradually leave the platform, so the people who remain are dumber and more inclined to circulate bollocks, which creates a self-reinforcing cycle.

    This wouldn't matter to us here except that it used to be quite a good news source that would organically boost things you should pay attention to, so people got in the habit of cross-posting things they see there over here, and people who haven't got the memo are still doing that, not realizing it's now a bad idea.
    Twitter is a real disappointment. I am sympathetic to the criticisms of the previous regime but if I log in to it now, it is a load of misleading posts from people I have never followed. I cannot reconcile this experience with what Elon Musk says he is trying to achieve.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    viewcode said:

    TimS said:

    When I saw "Kingswood" I was reminded of the Kingswood in Surrey, on the Tattenham Corner line.

    One of those odd things my brain decided to remember from my early commuting adulthood: New Cross gate, Brockley, Honor Oak park, Forest Hill, Sydenham, Penge west, Anerley, Norwood junction, east Croydon, south Croydon, Purley oaks, Purley, Reedham, Smitham, Woodmansterne, Chipstead, Kingswood, Tadworth and Tattenham Corner.

    Places I have never visited, beyond Croydon, and of which I know little, yet forever embedded in memory from the announcements at London Bridge.
    Tilehurst, Pangbourne, Goring-on-Streatley, Cholsey, Didcot Parkway, Oxford...
    You and other PBers ought to write the UK version of "I've Been Everywhere".

    ". . . I've been to Blackpool, Liverpool, Welshpool, Hartlepool, Pontypool, the Poole pool . . ."
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,871
    Sean_F said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    Skidmore sounds like a complete tosser.

    Unfortunately, he’s typical of the Parliamentary Party.

    They’ve let down every single person who voted for them in 2010 -19.

    Just imagine how those of us who didn't vote for them feel!
    Not so bad, I imagine, for you always knew that they were pieces of human excrement.

    It’s those of us who voted and even campaigned for them who feel like mugs. These arsehats were just laughing up their sleeves at us, the whole time.
    Was their biggest mistake ditching Boris Johnson? I can just imagine him out and about - yes, he'd have plenty booing him but he'd have a witty rejoinder and he'd have a few cheering him with the odd "good old Boris".

    It's not as though Sunak gets everyone booing him - most people are indifferent to him and that's just as bad. He also has no response - he simply can't handle public hostility because he's rarely encountered it. Proper politicians know the public is fickle and you have to take the rough with the jagged.

    By the way, I didn't realise we had a Flooding Minister until I read the BBC News report - he's the MP for Keighley so not likely to survive the political flood.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,897
    edited January 5
    Rishi welcomes darts champion Luke Humphries to No 10 and throws some darts with him himself!

    https://www.instagram.com/p/C1ussFusf8-/
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    Cookie said:

    dixiedean said:

    Owen Farrell is on the verge of turning his back on English rugby with the Saracens fly-half in advanced talks to sign for French club Racing 92, Telegraph Sport understands.

    Farrell’s contract with Saracens, his boyhood club, runs out at the end of this season and, in a bombshell development, the club overseen by former England head coach Stuart Lancaster on the outskirts of Paris are closing in on the signature of England’s best known player.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/01/05/owen-farrell-latest-racing-92-saracens-england/

    At this rate, England national team will be the second 15 team. They are going to have to change the rules.

    I am surprised the rule hasn't been challenged in court, as it is restriction of trade, given they earn £25k an appearance (which means playing for England can make up the vast majority of their potential income per year).

    He's 32, won't make the next World Cup, and gets booed and is the scapegoat for much which isn't his fault anyway.
    Who can blame him? It'll be his last big pay day.

    PS. His boyhood club was Wigan St.Patrick's. Like me.
    I don't blame any of these players going to France. They are getting big money not widely available in England.

    Its the RFU with their absolutely stupid rule. It isn't as if they are going to playing NZ, where yes then there is an issue about availability, about travel distance, etc. Playing in Paris is nearly than playing in Newcastle in terms of getting to Twickers.

    They also causing big problems now they have moved to this autumn internationals + 6 nations, which means clubs lose their star players for half of the games per season...that has to hurt the bottom line. Unlike the football, where they program in international breaks, so the clubs still have their star players for all the big games.
    The issue is more about number of games that players play, plus international breaks not always aligning. It's not like football where the premier league doesn't play when internationals are on. And you can't play mid week as the recovery is too long. And yes, it's restraint of trade too, so wil surely get challenged in the end.
    I don't think it's restraint of trade. Surely the RFU can pick whom it likes to play for England?
    Can't see them picking Farrell anyways.
    He's not the future at all.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,224

    On topic, what a self-indulgent nitwit.

    Wash your mouth out young man, that’s our prime minister you’re talking about. Show some respect. Honestly, young people these days.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,244
    maxh said:

    On topic, what a self-indulgent nitwit.

    Wash your mouth out young man, that’s our prime minister you’re talking about. Show some respect. Honestly, young people these days.
    I assumed he was referring to TSE.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    stodge said:

    Sean_F said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    Skidmore sounds like a complete tosser.

    Unfortunately, he’s typical of the Parliamentary Party.

    They’ve let down every single person who voted for them in 2010 -19.

    Just imagine how those of us who didn't vote for them feel!
    Not so bad, I imagine, for you always knew that they were pieces of human excrement.

    It’s those of us who voted and even campaigned for them who feel like mugs. These arsehats were just laughing up their sleeves at us, the whole time.
    Was their biggest mistake ditching Boris Johnson? I can just imagine him out and about - yes, he'd have plenty booing him but he'd have a witty rejoinder and he'd have a few cheering him with the odd "good old Boris".

    It's not as though Sunak gets everyone booing him - most people are indifferent to him and that's just as bad. He also has no response - he simply can't handle public hostility because he's rarely encountered it. Proper politicians know the public is fickle and you have to take the rough with the jagged.

    By the way, I didn't realise we had a Flooding Minister until I read the BBC News report - he's the MP for Keighley so not likely to survive the political flood.
    Who'll Stop the Rain - CCR
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmrwAW5-5rU
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,988

    Sunak's problem in a nutshell.

    He has the intelligence to find answers to questions.

    He doesn't have the... what is it? to consider whether they're the right questions.

    The things Richi doesn't have are legion, but the one that applies here is gumption
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,628
    The Post Office is under criminal investigation over the wrongful prosecution of hundreds of sub-postmasters, Scotland Yard confirmed for the first time on Friday evening.

    Metropolitan Police detectives are looking at “potential fraud offences” committed in the handling of the Horizon IT scandal.

    Between 1999 and 2015, the Post Office prosecuted at least 700 postmasters over allegations of fraud, theft and false accounting based on evidence from the faulty Horizon computer system. Hundreds were bankrupted or jailed and at least four people took their own lives.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/post-office-horizon-scandal-staff-investigation-rjhpkjjdm
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,988
    stodge said:

    Was their biggest mistake ditching Boris Johnson?

    Their mistake was not ditching him sooner.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    Another by-election!

    https://x.com/blewettsam/status/1743327342624149701?s=46

    This time a resignation on a policy matter, rather than someone being naughty.

    Seems like a bit of a nutter from that letter, of course Britain needs to tackle climate change and we are doing, better than almost everyone else on the planet, but we also need energy in the transition and beyond and we should be seeking to eliminate our imports of oil and gas before we eliminate our own domestic industry.

    For one thing he gets what COP agreed wrong, COP never agreed to phase out the production of oil and gas, it agreed to phase out the burning of them for fuel. There will remain a role for oil and gas potentially for centuries to come in medicine, plastics and much, much more. Most pharmaceuticals come from petrochemicals.

    His logic is also completely flawed and fails to understand fundamental economics. We cannot expect other countries to phase out fossil fuels when at the same time we continue to issue new licences or open new oil fields . . . wrong! That's precisely what we can and should do.

    If we shut down our own domestic production and rely upon imports then that makes other countries petrochemical industries more profitable and gives them less of an incentive to change.

    If we shut down our own imports of petrochemicals and rely upon domestic production, then that makes other countries petrochemical industries less profitable and gives them more of an incentive to change.
    Point of order: I don't think it's true to say "Most pharmaceuticals come from petrochemicals." They are important in the production of some, but it is far from most.
    According to this from the NIH it is most. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2848100/#:~:text=Most pharmaceuticals come from petrochemicals,, antihistamines, and antibacterial soaps.

    Most pharmaceuticals come from petrochemicals.

    If that's wrong, I'm happy to hear any alternative figures, but either way its a considerable proportion as far as I'm aware.
    I am wrong.
    You are - but on a cost basis for modern pharmaceutical, the manufacturing is more significant (which is why China dominates the world market in pharma APIs).
    And in any event, the percentage of petroleum production used in the pharma industry is tiny compared with energy or industrial plastics, and could fairly easily be replaced, at a cost, fro renewable sources.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,364

    The Post Office is under criminal investigation over the wrongful prosecution of hundreds of sub-postmasters, Scotland Yard confirmed for the first time on Friday evening.

    Metropolitan Police detectives are looking at “potential fraud offences” committed in the handling of the Horizon IT scandal.

    Between 1999 and 2015, the Post Office prosecuted at least 700 postmasters over allegations of fraud, theft and false accounting based on evidence from the faulty Horizon computer system. Hundreds were bankrupted or jailed and at least four people took their own lives.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/post-office-horizon-scandal-staff-investigation-rjhpkjjdm

    It only took the buggers 25 years to spot some dodgy shit was going on.

    I suppose that's quick by their standards.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    Who had heard of th-fronting before I mentioned it?

    I only looked it up half an hour ago

    On that basis alone, you are fully qualified to write, produce and post on YouTube "Complete History and Shocking Story of Th-Fronting".

    Illustrated in first instance by buxom young woman in tight T-shirt emblazoned "Come Th-Fronting with Me!"
    Or indeed young man in tight trousers, ditto T-shirt. Be fair. Equal shares and all that.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,364
    Scott_xP said:

    stodge said:

    Was their biggest mistake ditching Boris Johnson?

    Their mistake was not ditching him sooner.
    Their mistake was electing him to anything more demanding than deputy chair of Henley Town Council in the first place.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,244

    Being reported that Gerisimov - one of the Russian top three with Shoigu and Putin - has been killed in an airstrike in Sevastopol.

    Twitter is no longer a news source. They made it worse and worse by optimizing for engagement then Elon Musk bought it and finished it off.
    How are false rumours Elon Musk's fault?
    The fact that they're being circulated among news junkies and then posted here is Twitter's fault. Like I said some of the decline predates Elon Musk.

    Twitter algorithmically boosts accounts that write bollocks. This is a combination of boosting things that drive engagement, boosting the replies of people who pay for Twitter who for whatever reason turn out not to be the smartest people on the internet, and breaking the verification system which makes it harder to tell which accounts are authentic.

    This has caused people who can tell the difference between news and bollocks to gradually leave the platform, so the people who remain are dumber and more inclined to circulate bollocks, which creates a self-reinforcing cycle.

    This wouldn't matter to us here except that it used to be quite a good news source that would organically boost things you should pay attention to, so people got in the habit of cross-posting things they see there over here, and people who haven't got the memo are still doing that, not realizing it's now a bad idea.
    The only corner of Twix I visit is your "War" list which you posted on here a long time ago. It's still very useful (subject to all the usual caveats) and I've often wanted to link to it but I tend to think it's not my business to do so.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    darkage said:

    How would PBers feel about having a th-fronting surgeon or pilot?

    What does th-fronting mean?
    I fink vat it's vis

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th-fronting
    OK. My assumption is that anyone with a "working class" accent in a "good" job is probably far more capable than someone talking plummy RP in the same position, because they will have had to be to overcome the disgusting class prejudice that still disfigures this country. So I'd be glad to have a surgeon who talks like "vis".
    I have encountered quite a few fake 'working class' accents over the years. Particularly noticeable at university and in the civil service.
    How do you know they're fake? Quite plausibly generated by parents moving around, also moving from school to school.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,214
    Scott_xP said:

    stodge said:

    Was their biggest mistake ditching Boris Johnson?

    Their mistake was not ditching him sooner.
    1995 or so would have been good.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    dixiedean said:

    Owen Farrell is on the verge of turning his back on English rugby with the Saracens fly-half in advanced talks to sign for French club Racing 92, Telegraph Sport understands.

    Farrell’s contract with Saracens, his boyhood club, runs out at the end of this season and, in a bombshell development, the club overseen by former England head coach Stuart Lancaster on the outskirts of Paris are closing in on the signature of England’s best known player.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/01/05/owen-farrell-latest-racing-92-saracens-england/

    At this rate, England national team will be the second 15 team. They are going to have to change the rules.

    I am surprised the rule hasn't been challenged in court, as it is restriction of trade, given they earn £25k an appearance (which means playing for England can make up the vast majority of their potential income per year).

    He's 32, won't make the next World Cup, and gets booed and is the scapegoat for much which isn't his fault anyway.
    Who can blame him? It'll be his last big pay day.

    PS. His boyhood club was Wigan St.Patrick's. Like me.
    I don't blame any of these players going to France. They are getting big money not widely available in England.

    Its the RFU with their absolutely stupid rule. It isn't as if they are going to playing NZ, where yes then there is an issue about availability, about travel distance, etc. Playing in Paris is nearly than playing in Newcastle in terms of getting to Twickers.

    They also causing big problems now they have moved to this autumn internationals + 6 nations, which means clubs lose their star players for half of the games per season...that has to hurt the bottom line. Unlike the football, where they program in international breaks, so the clubs still have their star players for all the big games.
    The issue is more about number of games that players play, plus international breaks not always aligning. It's not like football where the premier league doesn't play when internationals are on. And you can't play mid week as the recovery is too long. And yes, it's restraint of trade too, so wil surely get challenged in the end.
    I’m not sure it’s even that. I think it’s more that the RFU cannot stomach the fact that they don’t have the top domestic league and they know that if they allow top English players to go to France it further reduces the appeal of the Premiership and so risks attendances and revenue further if the big draw players aren’t there.

    But the key is that the RFU have messed up English rugby and cannot accept that, of all countries, France is the better option.

    Would be like the French FA refusing to pick French footballers who played outside the French first division to try and ensure it had prestige and then having to field a crap football team at the World Cup whilst their best players sat on big contracts in the Premier League.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,897
    edited January 5
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    stodge said:

    Was their biggest mistake ditching Boris Johnson?

    Their mistake was not ditching him sooner.
    Their mistake was electing him to anything more demanding than deputy chair of Henley Town Council in the first place.
    It was the British people themselves who elected Boris to stay PM in 2019 with the biggest Tory majority since Thatcher in 1987
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Carnyx said:

    Who had heard of th-fronting before I mentioned it?

    I only looked it up half an hour ago

    On that basis alone, you are fully qualified to write, produce and post on YouTube "Complete History and Shocking Story of Th-Fronting".

    Illustrated in first instance by buxom young woman in tight T-shirt emblazoned "Come Th-Fronting with Me!"
    Or indeed young man in tight trousers, ditto T-shirt. Be fair. Equal shares and all that.
    Believe my version test better in most markets, but sure!

    Suggest other options, such as hosting by 300-lb drag queen and/or snake-handling holly-roller child-preacher.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,214
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    stodge said:

    Was their biggest mistake ditching Boris Johnson?

    Their mistake was not ditching him sooner.
    Their mistake was electing him to anything more demanding than deputy chair of Henley Town Council in the first place.
    No, because then he would have been in charge when the Chair was away.

    Which would have been like getting Fr Maguire to do a funeral.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,872

    The Post Office is under criminal investigation over the wrongful prosecution of hundreds of sub-postmasters, Scotland Yard confirmed for the first time on Friday evening.

    Metropolitan Police detectives are looking at “potential fraud offences” committed in the handling of the Horizon IT scandal.

    Between 1999 and 2015, the Post Office prosecuted at least 700 postmasters over allegations of fraud, theft and false accounting based on evidence from the faulty Horizon computer system. Hundreds were bankrupted or jailed and at least four people took their own lives.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/post-office-horizon-scandal-staff-investigation-rjhpkjjdm

    So will the police investigation delay the ongoing inquiry? Shades of Partygate.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,903
    viewcode said:

    TimS said:

    When I saw "Kingswood" I was reminded of the Kingswood in Surrey, on the Tattenham Corner line.

    One of those odd things my brain decided to remember from my early commuting adulthood: New Cross gate, Brockley, Honor Oak park, Forest Hill, Sydenham, Penge west, Anerley, Norwood junction, east Croydon, south Croydon, Purley oaks, Purley, Reedham, Smitham, Woodmansterne, Chipstead, Kingswood, Tadworth and Tattenham Corner.

    Places I have never visited, beyond Croydon, and of which I know little, yet forever embedded in memory from the announcements at London Bridge.
    Tilehurst, Pangbourne, Goring-on-Streatley, Cholsey, Didcot Parkway, Oxford...
    Goring-on-Streatley? Is that what you heard?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Pulpstar said:

    Why is th-fronting so common in England?

    Is it just a statement, in some regions, to affirm a working class background?

    Laziness I think, more than any other sound a proper th requires the nearest smidgen of effort.
    I’ll have you know that in Yorkshire, we put considerable effort into our labiodental fricatives.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    edited January 5
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    stodge said:

    Was their biggest mistake ditching Boris Johnson?

    Their mistake was not ditching him sooner.
    Their mistake was electing him to anything more demanding than deputy chair of Henley Town Council in the first place.
    It was the British people themselves who elected Boris to stay PM in 2019 with the biggest Tory majority since Thatcher in 1987
    Oh, what about Northern Ireland? Plus a lot of people didn't or couldn't vote. And many of then didn't vote for Mr Johnson. In fact, *none at all except in Uxbridge*. And that last was for the constituency MP.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,871
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    stodge said:

    Was their biggest mistake ditching Boris Johnson?

    Their mistake was not ditching him sooner.
    Their mistake was electing him to anything more demanding than deputy chair of Henley Town Council in the first place.
    It was the British people themselves who elected Boris to stay PM in 2019 with the biggest Tory majority since Thatcher in 1987
    It may have been the decision at the time (and certainly given the only credible alternative was Jeremy Corbyn) understandable but time has shown Johnson to be a poor choice and only marginally the lesser of the two evils on offer.

    Obviously, many think a Corbyn adminstration would have been a disaster - I'd contend probably but a different kind of disaster. I mean, imagine a Chancellor borrowing vast amounts of money to keep the economy going....
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Will current notoriety of Post Office, lead to revival of the party-hearty game "Post Office"?

    That is, if Brits even know what I'm talking about?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,872
    edited January 5

    stodge said:

    Sean_F said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    Skidmore sounds like a complete tosser.

    Unfortunately, he’s typical of the Parliamentary Party.

    They’ve let down every single person who voted for them in 2010 -19.

    Just imagine how those of us who didn't vote for them feel!
    Not so bad, I imagine, for you always knew that they were pieces of human excrement.

    It’s those of us who voted and even campaigned for them who feel like mugs. These arsehats were just laughing up their sleeves at us, the whole time.
    Was their biggest mistake ditching Boris Johnson? I can just imagine him out and about - yes, he'd have plenty booing him but he'd have a witty rejoinder and he'd have a few cheering him with the odd "good old Boris".

    It's not as though Sunak gets everyone booing him - most people are indifferent to him and that's just as bad. He also has no response - he simply can't handle public hostility because he's rarely encountered it. Proper politicians know the public is fickle and you have to take the rough with the jagged.

    By the way, I didn't realise we had a Flooding Minister until I read the BBC News report - he's the MP for Keighley so not likely to survive the political flood.
    Who'll Stop the Rain - CCR
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmrwAW5-5rU
    In 1976, Denis Howell was so successful as Minister of Droughts that he was immediately after appointed as Minister of Floods.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,897
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    stodge said:

    Was their biggest mistake ditching Boris Johnson?

    Their mistake was not ditching him sooner.
    Their mistake was electing him to anything more demanding than deputy chair of Henley Town Council in the first place.
    It was the British people themselves who elected Boris to stay PM in 2019 with the biggest Tory majority since Thatcher in 1987
    Oh, what about Northern Ireland? Plus a lot of people didn't or couldn't vote. And many of then didn't vote for Mr Johnson. In fact, *none at all except in Uxbridge*. And that last was for the constituency MP.
    People as you well know vote mostly for the leader now more than their local MP
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,408
    On topic, what a self-indulgent nitwit.
    Sean_F said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    Skidmore sounds like a complete tosser.

    Unfortunately, he’s typical of the Parliamentary Party.

    They’ve let down every single person who voted for them in 2010 -19.

    Just imagine how those of us who didn't vote for them feel!
    Not so bad, I imagine, for you always knew that they were pieces of human excrement.

    It’s those of us who voted and even campaigned for them who feel like mugs. These arsehats were just laughing up their sleeves at us, the whole time.


    I've been astonished at how shit this batch of Conservative MPs are - contrast to the 80s or even the 90s.

    Something went off with candidate selection in the noughties; we lost good MPs like Archie Norman and gained ones like Chris Pincher.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    edited January 5
    boulay said:

    dixiedean said:

    Owen Farrell is on the verge of turning his back on English rugby with the Saracens fly-half in advanced talks to sign for French club Racing 92, Telegraph Sport understands.

    Farrell’s contract with Saracens, his boyhood club, runs out at the end of this season and, in a bombshell development, the club overseen by former England head coach Stuart Lancaster on the outskirts of Paris are closing in on the signature of England’s best known player.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/01/05/owen-farrell-latest-racing-92-saracens-england/

    At this rate, England national team will be the second 15 team. They are going to have to change the rules.

    I am surprised the rule hasn't been challenged in court, as it is restriction of trade, given they earn £25k an appearance (which means playing for England can make up the vast majority of their potential income per year).

    He's 32, won't make the next World Cup, and gets booed and is the scapegoat for much which isn't his fault anyway.
    Who can blame him? It'll be his last big pay day.

    PS. His boyhood club was Wigan St.Patrick's. Like me.
    I don't blame any of these players going to France. They are getting big money not widely available in England.

    Its the RFU with their absolutely stupid rule. It isn't as if they are going to playing NZ, where yes then there is an issue about availability, about travel distance, etc. Playing in Paris is nearly than playing in Newcastle in terms of getting to Twickers.

    They also causing big problems now they have moved to this autumn internationals + 6 nations, which means clubs lose their star players for half of the games per season...that has to hurt the bottom line. Unlike the football, where they program in international breaks, so the clubs still have their star players for all the big games.
    The issue is more about number of games that players play, plus international breaks not always aligning. It's not like football where the premier league doesn't play when internationals are on. And you can't play mid week as the recovery is too long. And yes, it's restraint of trade too, so wil surely get challenged in the end.
    I’m not sure it’s even that. I think it’s more that the RFU cannot stomach the fact that they don’t have the top domestic league and they know that if they allow top English players to go to France it further reduces the appeal of the Premiership and so risks attendances and revenue further if the big draw players aren’t there.

    But the key is that the RFU have messed up English rugby and cannot accept that, of all countries, France is the better option.

    Would be like the French FA refusing to pick French footballers who played outside the French first division to try and ensure it had prestige and then having to field a crap football team at the World Cup whilst their best players sat on big contracts in the Premier League.
    With the South African and Irish teams, it's arguable that the URC is better in standard.
    Having lost 3 of their 13 teams in 12 months ought to have given the RFU a clue that the current setup isn't sustainable.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    stodge said:

    Was their biggest mistake ditching Boris Johnson?

    Their mistake was not ditching him sooner.
    Their mistake was electing him to anything more demanding than deputy chair of Henley Town Council in the first place.
    It was the British people themselves who elected Boris to stay PM in 2019 with the biggest Tory majority since Thatcher in 1987
    Oh, what about Northern Ireland? Plus a lot of people didn't or couldn't vote. And many of then didn't vote for Mr Johnson. In fact, *none at all except in Uxbridge*. And that last was for the constituency MP.
    People as you well know vote mostly for the leader now more than their local MP
    I know you have a strange concept of logic and numbner theory, but 43.6% of those who voted at all doesn't equate to "the British people" in ordinary human discourse or experience.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    HYUFD said:

    Rishi welcomes darts champion Luke Humphries to No 10 and throws some darts with him himself!

    https://www.instagram.com/p/C1ussFusf8-/

    Man of the people! The election's in the bag.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,897

    On topic, what a self-indulgent nitwit.

    Sean_F said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    Skidmore sounds like a complete tosser.

    Unfortunately, he’s typical of the Parliamentary Party.

    They’ve let down every single person who voted for them in 2010 -19.

    Just imagine how those of us who didn't vote for them feel!
    Not so bad, I imagine, for you always knew that they were pieces of human excrement.

    It’s those of us who voted and even campaigned for them who feel like mugs. These arsehats were just laughing up their sleeves at us, the whole time.


    I've been astonished at how shit this batch of Conservative MPs are - contrast to the 80s or even the 90s.

    Something went off with candidate selection in the noughties; we lost good MPs like Archie Norman and gained ones like Chris Pincher.
    Archie Norman chose to step down, had he known he could have been in the Cabinet by the end of 2010 he might have stayed rather than go on to chair ITV and M & S
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,364
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Rishi welcomes darts champion Luke Humphries to No 10 and throws some darts with him himself!

    https://www.instagram.com/p/C1ussFusf8-/

    Man of the people! The election's in the bag.
    It's just a load of bull.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,800
    rkrkrk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris Skidmore wrote a book about the death of Amy Robsart.

    Does anyone know whether his departure from the HoC will leave no Tory MP in the chamber with a brain?

    Oh, sorry - just read that he supported Truss for the leadership. His brain must have dropped out 2010x2022.
    OK, an eccentric with principles.
    The Tories should have stuck with Truss, her team and her agenda. It only became an issue becuase Sunak loving MPs rebelled against her Instantly.

    Starmer is saying growth growth growth and build on green belts in exactly the same way, yet it’s popular when he says it?
    They could have done but would be heading for less than 50 seats and maybe not even official opposition let alone holding power on her last polls as leader.

    Starmer may want more development like Truss but is not proposing to slash the additional income tax rate, scrap corporation tax rises and end the cap on bankers' bonuses as she and Kwarteng were pushing. If he was I doubt he would last long as Labour leader
    Isn't Starmer talking about re-enforcing the OBR, the exact opposite of what Truss did, part of what led her to lose all credibility with the markets.
    Just to note that today's poll has the Cons holding less than 100 seats. No doubt an outlier and slightly better than under La Truss but its arguabe she would have performed that much of a 'dead cat bounce' herself!

    Mr Sunak has to aim for the by-elections to be on local election day doesn't he? Better to take (and try to distract from) one bad day than to suffer death by a thousand cuts.
    Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

    Condemned prisoners don't ask for their execution to be brought forward.

    The election will be as late as Sunak can get away with. If he thinks he can get away with January 2025, it'd be then, but even he won't be able to push it that late so October is more realistic.
    Makes sense to me. But Sunak might not fancy campaigning over Christmas... if he gets it out the way in October he can be in California for the Winter.
    November 14th would be a perfect compromise. Just saying.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,897
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    stodge said:

    Was their biggest mistake ditching Boris Johnson?

    Their mistake was not ditching him sooner.
    Their mistake was electing him to anything more demanding than deputy chair of Henley Town Council in the first place.
    It was the British people themselves who elected Boris to stay PM in 2019 with the biggest Tory majority since Thatcher in 1987
    Oh, what about Northern Ireland? Plus a lot of people didn't or couldn't vote. And many of then didn't vote for Mr Johnson. In fact, *none at all except in Uxbridge*. And that last was for the constituency MP.
    People as you well know vote mostly for the leader now more than their local MP
    I know you have a strange concept of logic and numbner theory, but 43.6% of those who voted at all doesn't equate to "the British people" in ordinary human discourse or experience.
    It does, the Tories won most votes and seats and if you don't vote that is your problem, you have no right to complain
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Chris said:

    Chris Skidmore wrote a book about the death of Amy Robsart.

    Does anyone know whether his departure from the HoC will leave no Tory MP in the chamber with a brain?

    Jesse Norman. Excellent books on Adam Smith and Edmund Burke, novelist, PhD in philosophy, collateral descendent of Samuel Pepys and generally good egg.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,872

    On topic, what a self-indulgent nitwit.

    Sean_F said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    Skidmore sounds like a complete tosser.

    Unfortunately, he’s typical of the Parliamentary Party.

    They’ve let down every single person who voted for them in 2010 -19.

    Just imagine how those of us who didn't vote for them feel!
    Not so bad, I imagine, for you always knew that they were pieces of human excrement.

    It’s those of us who voted and even campaigned for them who feel like mugs. These arsehats were just laughing up their sleeves at us, the whole time.


    I've been astonished at how shit this batch of Conservative MPs are - contrast to the 80s or even the 90s.

    Something went off with candidate selection in the noughties; we lost good MPs like Archie Norman and gained ones like Chris Pincher.
    Cameron's A-list perhaps? PPE SpAds rather than farmers, small businessmen and suburban solicitors? Or simply the passage of time which meant we lost the wartime generation whose upper and middle class officers had served alongside working class soldiers for years.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,988
    It comes to them all in the end. They start off saying they will ignore the media and get on with the job. Then when nobody notices they decide to tell the media about the job. But then they get tetchy when the media ask difficult questions. So “aides” brief that if only their man could get out and meet every voter in person, shake them by the hand, the polls would turn.

    They said this about Gordon Brown. At least until his encounter with Gillian Duffy. They said this about Ed Miliband. Until his encounter with a bacon sandwich.

    And now they are saying it about Rishi Sunak, helicoptering between village halls, taking real questions from real people (who just happen to have come gileted-up like Tories and clap and bray when he enters a room). So far there has been no mention of a John Major-style soapbox, although it might help him to be seen by those at the back.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/oh-no-weve-reached-the-stage-where-they-want-to-let-rishi-be-rishi-sgwdkcpm7
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,555
    viewcode said:

    TimS said:

    When I saw "Kingswood" I was reminded of the Kingswood in Surrey, on the Tattenham Corner line.

    One of those odd things my brain decided to remember from my early commuting adulthood: New Cross gate, Brockley, Honor Oak park, Forest Hill, Sydenham, Penge west, Anerley, Norwood junction, east Croydon, south Croydon, Purley oaks, Purley, Reedham, Smitham, Woodmansterne, Chipstead, Kingswood, Tadworth and Tattenham Corner.

    Places I have never visited, beyond Croydon, and of which I know little, yet forever embedded in memory from the announcements at London Bridge.
    Tilehurst, Pangbourne, Goring-on-Streatley, Cholsey, Didcot Parkway, Oxford...
    Goring-'n-Streatley
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,897
    algarkirk said:

    Chris said:

    Chris Skidmore wrote a book about the death of Amy Robsart.

    Does anyone know whether his departure from the HoC will leave no Tory MP in the chamber with a brain?

    Jesse Norman. Excellent books on Adam Smith and Edmund Burke, novelist, PhD in philosophy, collateral descendent of Samuel Pepys and generally good egg.
    My current MP, Alex Burghart, completed his phd on '"The Mercian polity, 716–918".

    'In 2005 he was the lead researcher for the King's College London project on interrogating Anglo-Saxon charters using digital technologies'
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Burghart
  • eekeek Posts: 28,367
    ydoethur said:

    The Post Office is under criminal investigation over the wrongful prosecution of hundreds of sub-postmasters, Scotland Yard confirmed for the first time on Friday evening.

    Metropolitan Police detectives are looking at “potential fraud offences” committed in the handling of the Horizon IT scandal.

    Between 1999 and 2015, the Post Office prosecuted at least 700 postmasters over allegations of fraud, theft and false accounting based on evidence from the faulty Horizon computer system. Hundreds were bankrupted or jailed and at least four people took their own lives.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/post-office-horizon-scandal-staff-investigation-rjhpkjjdm

    It only took the buggers 25 years to spot some dodgy shit was going on.

    I suppose that's quick by their standards.
    Someone had to give them the nod to start investigating - remember the public inquiry is still slowly grinding on...

    First step and it won't require the Met Police - every post office lawyer and official who stood up in court needs to be done for contempt of court for lying (or incompetency).
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,394
    dixiedean said:

    boulay said:

    dixiedean said:

    Owen Farrell is on the verge of turning his back on English rugby with the Saracens fly-half in advanced talks to sign for French club Racing 92, Telegraph Sport understands.

    Farrell’s contract with Saracens, his boyhood club, runs out at the end of this season and, in a bombshell development, the club overseen by former England head coach Stuart Lancaster on the outskirts of Paris are closing in on the signature of England’s best known player.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/01/05/owen-farrell-latest-racing-92-saracens-england/

    At this rate, England national team will be the second 15 team. They are going to have to change the rules.

    I am surprised the rule hasn't been challenged in court, as it is restriction of trade, given they earn £25k an appearance (which means playing for England can make up the vast majority of their potential income per year).

    He's 32, won't make the next World Cup, and gets booed and is the scapegoat for much which isn't his fault anyway.
    Who can blame him? It'll be his last big pay day.

    PS. His boyhood club was Wigan St.Patrick's. Like me.
    I don't blame any of these players going to France. They are getting big money not widely available in England.

    Its the RFU with their absolutely stupid rule. It isn't as if they are going to playing NZ, where yes then there is an issue about availability, about travel distance, etc. Playing in Paris is nearly than playing in Newcastle in terms of getting to Twickers.

    They also causing big problems now they have moved to this autumn internationals + 6 nations, which means clubs lose their star players for half of the games per season...that has to hurt the bottom line. Unlike the football, where they program in international breaks, so the clubs still have their star players for all the big games.
    The issue is more about number of games that players play, plus international breaks not always aligning. It's not like football where the premier league doesn't play when internationals are on. And you can't play mid week as the recovery is too long. And yes, it's restraint of trade too, so wil surely get challenged in the end.
    I’m not sure it’s even that. I think it’s more that the RFU cannot stomach the fact that they don’t have the top domestic league and they know that if they allow top English players to go to France it further reduces the appeal of the Premiership and so risks attendances and revenue further if the big draw players aren’t there.

    But the key is that the RFU have messed up English rugby and cannot accept that, of all countries, France is the better option.

    Would be like the French FA refusing to pick French footballers who played outside the French first division to try and ensure it had prestige and then having to field a crap football team at the World Cup whilst their best players sat on big contracts in the Premier League.
    With the South African and Irish teams, it's arguable that the URC is better in standard.
    Having lost 3 of their 13 teams in 12 months ought to have given the RFU a clue that the current setup isn't sustainable.
    I'd argue the issue with orem rugby was pretending to be prem football with crowds like league 1.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,214

    On topic, what a self-indulgent nitwit.

    Sean_F said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    Skidmore sounds like a complete tosser.

    Unfortunately, he’s typical of the Parliamentary Party.

    They’ve let down every single person who voted for them in 2010 -19.

    Just imagine how those of us who didn't vote for them feel!
    Not so bad, I imagine, for you always knew that they were pieces of human excrement.

    It’s those of us who voted and even campaigned for them who feel like mugs. These arsehats were just laughing up their sleeves at us, the whole time.


    I've been astonished at how shit this batch of Conservative MPs are - contrast to the 80s or even the 90s.

    Something went off with candidate selection in the noughties; we lost good MPs like Archie Norman and gained ones like Chris Pincher.
    Two things, I reckon.

    In the late nineties/early noughties, it was pretty uncool to be a Conservative, and anyone who wanted to get stuff done became a Blairite. There wasn't enough competition and the people who came through were often a bit odd.

    Then came Dave's modernisation, and some of the people who came through the A List really weren't all that.

    The first is the one that should really bother people on the right of centre. Because if the talent pipeline was a trickle in the late 90's, what is it like now?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,872
    DavidL said:

    rkrkrk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris Skidmore wrote a book about the death of Amy Robsart.

    Does anyone know whether his departure from the HoC will leave no Tory MP in the chamber with a brain?

    Oh, sorry - just read that he supported Truss for the leadership. His brain must have dropped out 2010x2022.
    OK, an eccentric with principles.
    The Tories should have stuck with Truss, her team and her agenda. It only became an issue becuase Sunak loving MPs rebelled against her Instantly.

    Starmer is saying growth growth growth and build on green belts in exactly the same way, yet it’s popular when he says it?
    They could have done but would be heading for less than 50 seats and maybe not even official opposition let alone holding power on her last polls as leader.

    Starmer may want more development like Truss but is not proposing to slash the additional income tax rate, scrap corporation tax rises and end the cap on bankers' bonuses as she and Kwarteng were pushing. If he was I doubt he would last long as Labour leader
    Isn't Starmer talking about re-enforcing the OBR, the exact opposite of what Truss did, part of what led her to lose all credibility with the markets.
    Just to note that today's poll has the Cons holding less than 100 seats. No doubt an outlier and slightly better than under La Truss but its arguabe she would have performed that much of a 'dead cat bounce' herself!

    Mr Sunak has to aim for the by-elections to be on local election day doesn't he? Better to take (and try to distract from) one bad day than to suffer death by a thousand cuts.
    Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

    Condemned prisoners don't ask for their execution to be brought forward.

    The election will be as late as Sunak can get away with. If he thinks he can get away with January 2025, it'd be then, but even he won't be able to push it that late so October is more realistic.
    Makes sense to me. But Sunak might not fancy campaigning over Christmas... if he gets it out the way in October he can be in California for the Winter.
    November 14th would be a perfect compromise. Just saying.
    One last Christmas at Chequers means January 2025. Does anyone keep track of whether the Sunaks spend their weekends at Chequers or prefer to stay in London?
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,244

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris Skidmore wrote a book about the death of Amy Robsart.

    Does anyone know whether his departure from the HoC will leave no Tory MP in the chamber with a brain?

    Oh, sorry - just read that he supported Truss for the leadership. His brain must have dropped out 2010x2022.
    OK, an eccentric with principles.
    The Tories should have stuck with Truss, her team and her agenda. It only became an issue becuase Sunak loving MPs rebelled against her Instantly.

    Starmer is saying growth growth growth and build on green belts in exactly the same way, yet it’s popular when he says it?
    They could have done but would be heading for less than 50 seats and maybe not even official opposition let alone holding power on her last polls as leader.

    Starmer may want more development like Truss but is not proposing to slash the additional income tax rate, scrap corporation tax rises and end the cap on bankers' bonuses as she and Kwarteng were pushing. If he was I doubt he would last long as Labour leader
    Isn't Starmer talking about re-enforcing the OBR, the exact opposite of what Truss did, part of what led her to lose all credibility with the markets.
    Just to note that today's poll has the Cons holding less than 100 seats. No doubt an outlier and slightly better than under La Truss but its arguabe she would have performed that much of a 'dead cat bounce' herself!

    Mr Sunak has to aim for the by-elections to be on local election day doesn't he? Better to take (and try to distract from) one bad day than to suffer death by a thousand cuts.
    Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

    Condemned prisoners don't ask for their execution to be brought forward.

    The election will be as late as Sunak can get away with. If he thinks he can get away with January 2025, it'd be then, but even he won't be able to push it that late so October is more realistic.
    The full phrase is "Turkeys voting for an early Christmas".

    It was used by Jim Callaghan to describe the Liberals' support for the vote of no confidence against his government in 1979 with six months left on the parliamentary clock.
    According to Wiki the phrase predates 1979 and originally didn't have the word early in it.

    The Oxford Dictionary of Humorous Quotations writes that a commentator in the Independent Magazine traced the origin of the phrase to British Liberal Party politician David Penhaligon,[2] who is quoted as saying: "Us voting for the Pact is like a turkey voting for Christmas" in reference to the 1977 Lib–Lab pact which he opposed.[3]
    Fair enough. I listened to the whole VONC debate on the radio so quite a few phrases stick in the mind. For example, Michael Foot, winding up for the govt, describing David Steel as someone who had gone from bright young thing to elder statesman with nothing in between. Or Callaghan responding to the division saying "the House has had its vote, now the country must have its own" (or words to that effect). It was an age of eloquence and humour in equal measure and very few since have come close to it.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    With respect to Th-Fronting, how long before Ron DeSantis denounces it on the campaign trail, promises immediate state action in Florida to ban it being taught (or whatever) to minors, and pledging that passage of Anti-Th-Fronting Amendment to US Constitution will be top priority for his First 100 Days as President.

    Thlorida thurely.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,897

    On topic, what a self-indulgent nitwit.

    Sean_F said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    Skidmore sounds like a complete tosser.

    Unfortunately, he’s typical of the Parliamentary Party.

    They’ve let down every single person who voted for them in 2010 -19.

    Just imagine how those of us who didn't vote for them feel!
    Not so bad, I imagine, for you always knew that they were pieces of human excrement.

    It’s those of us who voted and even campaigned for them who feel like mugs. These arsehats were just laughing up their sleeves at us, the whole time.


    I've been astonished at how shit this batch of Conservative MPs are - contrast to the 80s or even the 90s.

    Something went off with candidate selection in the noughties; we lost good MPs like Archie Norman and gained ones like Chris Pincher.
    Two things, I reckon.

    In the late nineties/early noughties, it was pretty uncool to be a Conservative, and anyone who wanted to get stuff done became a Blairite. There wasn't enough competition and the people who came through were often a bit odd.

    Then came Dave's modernisation, and some of the people who came through the A List really weren't all that.

    The first is the one that should really bother people on the right of centre. Because if the talent pipeline was a trickle in the late 90's, what is it like now?
    I doubt the talent pipeline for Labour MPs was much better in the Ed Miliband and Corbyn years and they are likely to comprise the main pool for the next Cabinet
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,364
    edited January 5
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    stodge said:

    Was their biggest mistake ditching Boris Johnson?

    Their mistake was not ditching him sooner.
    Their mistake was electing him to anything more demanding than deputy chair of Henley Town Council in the first place.
    It was the British people themselves who elected Boris to stay PM in 2019 with the biggest Tory majority since Thatcher in 1987
    I think you'll find that was only possible because a lot of very silly people in the Tory party elected him leader in the first place despite knowing he was a racist, sexually incontinent liar with a penchant for talking absolute rubbish, the intellect of a village idiot and the attention span of a concussed goldfish.

    This was, with hindsight, a mistake on their part.

    In fact, it was arguably a mistake they could have avoided without benefit of hindsight. Common sense would have done.

    They will never admit it though.
This discussion has been closed.