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However hard LAB presses Rishi is the one who’ll decide the date – politicalbetting.com

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,897
    viewcode said:

    Flanner said:

    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Sir Howard Davies: Not that difficult to buy a home, says NatWest chair"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67890334

    "Torsten Bell, boss of the Resolution Foundation think tank which focuses on improving living standards for those on low to middle incomes, tweeted prior to Sir Howard's comments that the most common living arrangement for an adult aged between 18 and 34 in 1997 was "being in a couple with children".

    "Today the most common is... living with your parents""
    Whether one blames it on Labour, Conservatives, or anybody else, there is no doubt we have really, really fucked up the post-Cold-War generation. A generation that can't buy a house and start a family in their 20s is going to have massively reduced life outcomes in their 40/50/60s.

    "A generation that can't buy a house and start a family in their 20s is going to have massively reduced life outcomes in their 40/50/60s."

    Cobblers.

    In my parents' generation, 60% of the population couldn't buy a house in their 20's - or at any other point in their lives. Not a single family in my neighbourhood when I left it for university in the late1960s owned their own house. And, btw, nothing Thatcher did changed things for people renting privately: when we moved my parents into sheltered accommodation in the 1990s, no-one in the neighbourhood owned their house.
    I know that. But consider the implications of what you just said
    • i) Your parents were born around the 1930/40s ("...left it for university in the late1960s...")
    • ii) Your parents had at least one child (you) in their teens/20s.
    • iii) Your parents had a better life outcome (they had you) than the teens/twentysomethings of today

    Did they? They didn't own their homes either and indeed never owned a home unlike 60%+ of today's UK population, nor did they go to university unlike close to 50% of today's teens and twentysomethings
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I’m not one to bash the BBC needlessly [yes I am] but this is genuinely bizarre, nay unbelievable

    An entire and quite long BBC article about Sir Nicholas Winton - who famously rescued hundreds of Jewish kids from the Nazis - which doesn’t once mention that he was Jewish. Nor that the kids were Jewish. Nor that the woman used as an example is Jewish

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-67876587


    That can only be deliberate. I cannot otherwise explain it

    The headline describes Winton as "Holocaust hero" so isn't it obvious that the kids he saved were Jewish?
    No, it’s not. Absolutely not

    Polls show that kids in the west are growing up with much less knowledge of the Holocaust. This article NEEDS to say “Jewish” at least once. It’s fairly outrageous
    I agree the article should mention that the kids were Jewish. I disagree that it is some sinister plot by the BBC, on the basis that it has the word "Holocaust" in big letters at the top, which provides the context. Kids may well not know enough about the holocaust - it is starting to fade from our collective memory with the passage of time, which it shouldn't for multiple reasons - but I think that the vast majority of people who read this article will know that the Holocaust refers to the murder of European Jews by the Nazis and their allies during WW2.
    Except this seems to be a theme extending beyond the BBC

    'One Life' is a moving film about the heroic Sir Nicholas Winton. But its UK distributor @WarnerBrosUK is now calling the children he rescued "Central Europeans" instead of Jews.

    This is erasure of Jewish identity. Presumably to appease anti-Jewish racists. Deeply unimpressive.“

    https://x.com/holocaustcentuk/status/1742961106795069527?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Warner Bros amends description of Holocaust film One Life to include ‘Jewish’ following backlash
    https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/warner-bros-amends-description-of-holocaust-film-one-life-to-include-jewish-following-backlash-vh5c96s6
    It’s a thorny issue, if Egyptian Queens should be played authentically by Greeks, Jews, like Shylock, should be played by Jews and not need prosthetic noses. Black people can’t be played by white people anymore. but this line is great
    ““At some point, we have to acknowledge that our whole function as artists is to try and step into the consciousness of someone else and find compassion and find something of emotional power in doing that.”
    However he then casts a Black person otherwise the point of racism wouldn’t work.

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/armageddon-time-james-gray-casting-anthony-hopkins-jewish-character-1235251705/
    I just presume now every gay role in TV and film gets cast to a gay or bi person these days - like the leads in the excellent All of Us Strangers.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited January 5

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I’m not one to bash the BBC needlessly [yes I am] but this is genuinely bizarre, nay unbelievable

    An entire and quite long BBC article about Sir Nicholas Winton - who famously rescued hundreds of Jewish kids from the Nazis - which doesn’t once mention that he was Jewish. Nor that the kids were Jewish. Nor that the woman used as an example is Jewish

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-67876587


    That can only be deliberate. I cannot otherwise explain it

    The headline describes Winton as "Holocaust hero" so isn't it obvious that the kids he saved were Jewish?
    No, it’s not. Absolutely not

    Polls show that kids in the west are growing up with much less knowledge of the Holocaust. This article NEEDS to say “Jewish” at least once. It’s fairly outrageous
    I agree the article should mention that the kids were Jewish. I disagree that it is some sinister plot by the BBC, on the basis that it has the word "Holocaust" in big letters at the top, which provides the context. Kids may well not know enough about the holocaust - it is starting to fade from our collective memory with the passage of time, which it shouldn't for multiple reasons - but I think that the vast majority of people who read this article will know that the Holocaust refers to the murder of European Jews by the Nazis and their allies during WW2.
    Except this seems to be a theme extending beyond the BBC

    'One Life' is a moving film about the heroic Sir Nicholas Winton. But its UK distributor @WarnerBrosUK is now calling the children he rescued "Central Europeans" instead of Jews.

    This is erasure of Jewish identity. Presumably to appease anti-Jewish racists. Deeply unimpressive.“

    https://x.com/holocaustcentuk/status/1742961106795069527?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Warner Bros amends description of Holocaust film One Life to include ‘Jewish’ following backlash
    https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/warner-bros-amends-description-of-holocaust-film-one-life-to-include-jewish-following-backlash-vh5c96s6
    It’s a thorny issue, if Egyptian Queens should be played authentically by Greeks, Jews, like Shylock, should be played by Jews and not need prosthetic noses. Black people can’t be played by white people anymore. but this line is great
    ““At some point, we have to acknowledge that our whole function as artists is to try and step into the consciousness of someone else and find compassion and find something of emotional power in doing that.”
    However he then casts a Black person otherwise the point of racism wouldn’t work.

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/armageddon-time-james-gray-casting-anthony-hopkins-jewish-character-1235251705/
    I just presume now every gay role in TV and film gets cast to a gay or bi person these days - like the leads in the excellent All of Us Strangers.
    I am pretty sure that was mostly true in the past in Hollywood, it is just that many weren't able to be open about their sexuality to the wider world....
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    viewcode said:
    Quite an incredible article from the BBC...for what it is missing....

    "Draper, who was from Chorley in Lancashire, was a Labour Party lobbyist for almost a decade.

    He left politics in 1998 after being involved in the "Lobbygate" scandal in which he was caught on record boasting of his ability to sell access to government ministers. He retrained as a psychotherapist and wrote regularly in magazines and newspapers on psychotherapy issues. He is the author of two books, Blair's 100 Days and Life Support.

    In 2009 he founded the LabourList website, a news website supportive, but independent of, the Labour Party."

    .....AND...no....nothing...nothing at all about the massive scandal he was involved in that was absolute filth. Its up there with Gay was a victim of the culture war headline.
    I always remember a TV programme from about 1997 or 1998 in which he spent a few days in the company of a traditional, old Labour party member from somewhere like County Durham, in which they disagreed about almost everything to do with the Labour Party. I've searched for it on YouTube but haven't found it so far.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,393
    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    After some faff, have agreed with Halifax to pay a reduced Liz Truss tax on my mortgage from next month.

    Like the "tax cut" that Sunak is claiming, I will be paying a chunk more in mortgage payments, albeit not as big a chunk as it could have been.

    Are the Tories really expecting that people paying a bigger tax bill and bigger mortgage bill will be appreciative enough to change their mind about kicking them out?

    On the one hand, Happiness = expectation vs reality

    On the other, I was constantly surprised (and expressed this on here) over the last 14 months as to the levels of eating out, pub occupancy etc that I witnessed as I travel around the country (I'm away up to 1/4 of the year on business). I predicted that we'd avoid recession on that basis.

    Since Christmas, it seems dead. Now, I know it is only Jan 5th, but what I'm seeing is drastic - and much lower than last year. So I'm expecting a pretty big drop in consumer spending over the next few months.
    The weather has been awful - that won't have helped. I also have the suspicion that a l of workplaces are shut until monday, or at least many staff have booked holidays till then.
    Guilty! I'm at work but I let my staff have an extra few days.
    Uni is pretty quiet - I'm mainly interviewing prospective students over Zoom...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:
    RIP I will most remember him for the excellent Hitchens and Draper panel on Talkradio though he played a key part in New Labour too
    No he will be remembered for his infamous and nasty ply along with MCbride to spread malicious gossip about David Cameron and others via the Red Rag website

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/may/06/derek-draper-labour-list-editor
    Draper was not a nice man, not by any stretch of the imagination, but I would not wish his last few years on my worst enemy (if I have one, I'd have to think about that). For all his sins may he rest in peace.
    I feel very sorry for his family. They must have been an incredible ordeal over the past 3 years.
    I'd comment that Dolly very much seems to have reformed after he left the Ali Campbell type bubble politics, and changed career.

    His family clearly adored him and I wish them every sympathy.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,344
    Leon said:

    Is consumer spending really in the khazi?

    “Service sector ends year on a high
    Recovery in consumer spending eases recession fears”

    - Times, yesterday

    PMI data are pretty upbeat, and consumer prices have risen by just 1% since April. I'll stick my neck out, and say I expect inflation to be close to zero, a year from now.

    That's not going to save the government, but endless tales of woe are overblown.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    edited January 5
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:
    RIP I will most remember him for the excellent Hitchens and Draper panel on Talkradio though he played a key part in New Labour too
    No he will be remembered for his infamous and nasty ply along with MCbride to spread malicious gossip about David Cameron and others via the Red Rag website

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/may/06/derek-draper-labour-list-editor
    Draper was not a nice man, not by any stretch of the imagination, but I would not wish his last few years on my worst enemy (if I have one, I'd have to think about that). For all his sins may he rest in peace.
    Well said.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I’m not one to bash the BBC needlessly [yes I am] but this is genuinely bizarre, nay unbelievable

    An entire and quite long BBC article about Sir Nicholas Winton - who famously rescued hundreds of Jewish kids from the Nazis - which doesn’t once mention that he was Jewish. Nor that the kids were Jewish. Nor that the woman used as an example is Jewish

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-67876587


    That can only be deliberate. I cannot otherwise explain it

    The headline describes Winton as "Holocaust hero" so isn't it obvious that the kids he saved were Jewish?
    No, it’s not. Absolutely not

    Polls show that kids in the west are growing up with much less knowledge of the Holocaust. This article NEEDS to say “Jewish” at least once. It’s fairly outrageous
    I agree the article should mention that the kids were Jewish. I disagree that it is some sinister plot by the BBC, on the basis that it has the word "Holocaust" in big letters at the top, which provides the context. Kids may well not know enough about the holocaust - it is starting to fade from our collective memory with the passage of time, which it shouldn't for multiple reasons - but I think that the vast majority of people who read this article will know that the Holocaust refers to the murder of European Jews by the Nazis and their allies during WW2.
    No-one, or at least very few people, have ever helped the Roma.
    My late German mother-in-law, who was a child during the war, had a cousin with what we'd nowadays call learning difficulties. She told me how she was quite bewildered when, one day, her cousin was suddenly gone, and nobody would say what had happened to her. Of course, she learned later that her cousin had been taken by the Nazis and executed. Put down, like a dog.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Used car game is red hot at the moment which is very unusual for January. I had to pay strong money for a ratty non-running E34 535i and I only want the fucking oil pan from it.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,815

    Talking about scumbags....Joey Barton appears to be another that is having the social-media fuelled mid-life crisis...

    Addressing Aluko, he wrote on X: 'How is she even talking about Men's football. She can't even kick a ball properly. Your coverage of the game EFC last night, took it to a new low. Eni Aluko and Lucy Ward, the Fred and Rose West of football commentary.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12929489/Joey-Barton-attacks-ITVs-FA-Cup-round-punditry-team-sick-taunt-Eni-Aluko-commentator-Lucy-Ward-claims-coverage-reached-new-low.html

    Mid life crisis? Whole life crisis surely?
  • Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    After some faff, have agreed with Halifax to pay a reduced Liz Truss tax on my mortgage from next month.

    Like the "tax cut" that Sunak is claiming, I will be paying a chunk more in mortgage payments, albeit not as big a chunk as it could have been.

    Are the Tories really expecting that people paying a bigger tax bill and bigger mortgage bill will be appreciative enough to change their mind about kicking them out?

    On the one hand, Happiness = expectation vs reality

    On the other, I was constantly surprised (and expressed this on here) over the last 14 months as to the levels of eating out, pub occupancy etc that I witnessed as I travel around the country (I'm away up to 1/4 of the year on business). I predicted that we'd avoid recession on that basis.

    Since Christmas, it seems dead. Now, I know it is only Jan 5th, but what I'm seeing is drastic - and much lower than last year. So I'm expecting a pretty big drop in consumer spending over the next few months.
    Hospitality always sees an incredible drop in January, which is part of the reason why I completely despise the concept of "dry January" and whoever came up with that - and will never cheer on, encourage or otherwise celebrate anyone engaging in that.

    I pity those who work in hospitality at this time of year, and for people to organise "charitable" aims to make their life harder at this time of year, I find it despicable.

    If you feel like you can't get through the day without alcohol, you need serious help. If you can, then don't go out of your way and encourage others to do so to make time even harder for others.
    As I said, I travel a lot every month. This year seems far worse than usual.
    Its only the fifth, I couldn't make any comments yet on "this year" which has only been running from Monday-Thursday, the worst days for hospitality anyway so far this year.

    Yesterday I was out in Edinburgh and people were queuing for restaurants when they opened. The restaurant we ate at, later, was very busy - but it was also on the Royal Mile, so I rather suspect it never really struggles for customers.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978

    Talking about scumbags....Joey Barton appears to be another that is having the social-media fuelled mid-life crisis...

    Addressing Aluko, he wrote on X: 'How is she even talking about Men's football. She can't even kick a ball properly. Your coverage of the game EFC last night, took it to a new low. Eni Aluko and Lucy Ward, the Fred and Rose West of football commentary.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12929489/Joey-Barton-attacks-ITVs-FA-Cup-round-punditry-team-sick-taunt-Eni-Aluko-commentator-Lucy-Ward-claims-coverage-reached-new-low.html

    Mid life crisis? Whole life crisis surely?
    Its the mid-life crisis of becoming a loud mouth on the tw@tter that is deliberately looking to cause a dust up. He isn't a dumb dumb, he knows that these comments will get media headlines.

    Previously he was a nasty little shit for whom the red mist was never far away and then he would lose control.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:
    RIP I will most remember him for the excellent Hitchens and Draper panel on Talkradio though he played a key part in New Labour too
    No he will be remembered for his infamous and nasty ply along with MCbride to spread malicious gossip about David Cameron and others via the Red Rag website

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/may/06/derek-draper-labour-list-editor
    Draper was not a nice man, not by any stretch of the imagination, but I would not wish his last few years on my worst enemy (if I have one, I'd have to think about that). For all his sins may he rest in peace.
    Indeed I concur.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    Flanner said:

    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Sir Howard Davies: Not that difficult to buy a home, says NatWest chair"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67890334

    "Torsten Bell, boss of the Resolution Foundation think tank which focuses on improving living standards for those on low to middle incomes, tweeted prior to Sir Howard's comments that the most common living arrangement for an adult aged between 18 and 34 in 1997 was "being in a couple with children".

    "Today the most common is... living with your parents""
    Whether one blames it on Labour, Conservatives, or anybody else, there is no doubt we have really, really fucked up the post-Cold-War generation. A generation that can't buy a house and start a family in their 20s is going to have massively reduced life outcomes in their 40/50/60s.

    "A generation that can't buy a house and start a family in their 20s is going to have massively reduced life outcomes in their 40/50/60s."

    Cobblers.

    In my parents' generation, 60% of the population couldn't buy a house in their 20's - or at any other point in their lives. Not a single family in my neighbourhood when I left it for university in the late1960s owned their own house. And, btw, nothing Thatcher did changed things for people renting privately: when we moved my parents into sheltered accommodation in the 1990s, no-one in the neighbourhood owned their house.
    I know that. But consider the implications of what you just said
    • i) Your parents were born around the 1930/40s ("...left it for university in the late1960s...")
    • ii) Your parents had at least one child (you) in their teens/20s.
    • iii) Your parents had a better life outcome (they had you) than the teens/twentysomethings of today

    Did they? They didn't own their homes either and indeed never owned a home unlike 60%+ of today's UK population, nor did they go to university unlike close to 50% of today's teens and twentysomethings
    I'm pretty sure our parents had children.

  • Talking about scumbags....Joey Barton appears to be another that is having the social-media fuelled mid-life crisis...

    Addressing Aluko, he wrote on X: 'How is she even talking about Men's football. She can't even kick a ball properly. Your coverage of the game EFC last night, took it to a new low. Eni Aluko and Lucy Ward, the Fred and Rose West of football commentary.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12929489/Joey-Barton-attacks-ITVs-FA-Cup-round-punditry-team-sick-taunt-Eni-Aluko-commentator-Lucy-Ward-claims-coverage-reached-new-low.html

    To be fair, her commentary was absolutely dire.

    Not sure it merited a comparison with Fred and Rose West though.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,393

    Talking about scumbags....Joey Barton appears to be another that is having the social-media fuelled mid-life crisis...

    Addressing Aluko, he wrote on X: 'How is she even talking about Men's football. She can't even kick a ball properly. Your coverage of the game EFC last night, took it to a new low. Eni Aluko and Lucy Ward, the Fred and Rose West of football commentary.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12929489/Joey-Barton-attacks-ITVs-FA-Cup-round-punditry-team-sick-taunt-Eni-Aluko-commentator-Lucy-Ward-claims-coverage-reached-new-low.html

    I have a small smidge of sympathy with the arguments around womens footballers commentating on mens football. Until recently womens football was played in front of tiny crowds and frankly the standard was abysmal. There is no comparison in experience of female players with the mens premiership and international game, so if you are employing them on the basis of their experience, its wrong. If you are employing them for their knowledge of football and their love of the game, thats a different matter. In the same way I wouldn't expect male footballers to have much of a concept of womens football.

    But fundamentally, Barton is a dick
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    Dura_Ace said:

    Used car game is red hot at the moment which is very unusual for January. I had to pay strong money for a ratty non-running E34 535i and I only want the fucking oil pan from it.

    Oh, what do you do with the motor once the oil pan has been cannibalised from it? Get a spare oil pan from the maker? But wouldn't that be the logical thing to do instead?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    Dura_Ace said:

    Used car game is red hot at the moment which is very unusual for January. I had to pay strong money for a ratty non-running E34 535i and I only want the fucking oil pan from it.

    Yes I've noticed that. There's a second-hand car lot in my area and prices have doubled or tripled. Why?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited January 5

    Talking about scumbags....Joey Barton appears to be another that is having the social-media fuelled mid-life crisis...

    Addressing Aluko, he wrote on X: 'How is she even talking about Men's football. She can't even kick a ball properly. Your coverage of the game EFC last night, took it to a new low. Eni Aluko and Lucy Ward, the Fred and Rose West of football commentary.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12929489/Joey-Barton-attacks-ITVs-FA-Cup-round-punditry-team-sick-taunt-Eni-Aluko-commentator-Lucy-Ward-claims-coverage-reached-new-low.html

    I have a small smidge of sympathy with the arguments around womens footballers commentating on mens football. Until recently womens football was played in front of tiny crowds and frankly the standard was abysmal. There is no comparison in experience of female players with the mens premiership and international game, so if you are employing them on the basis of their experience, its wrong. If you are employing them for their knowledge of football and their love of the game, thats a different matter. In the same way I wouldn't expect male footballers to have much of a concept of womens football.

    But fundamentally, Barton is a dick
    His wider criticism is true, that in general the quality of commentary and analysis on Sky, TNT, BBC (male and female) is piss poor and they don't know very much about the tactics behind the modern game...and that there are people on the t'interweb that actually do know, but they never get an opportunity.

    Sky Cricket came to this realisation 5 years ago or so and out went Botham, Holding etc. Compare their lazy analysis where they didn't even know the players, let alone the tactics, versus an Eoin Morgan or Kumar Sangakkara.

    For the most part, football coverage is still stuck in the dark ages.
  • viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Used car game is red hot at the moment which is very unusual for January. I had to pay strong money for a ratty non-running E34 535i and I only want the fucking oil pan from it.

    Yes I've noticed that. There's a second-hand car lot in my area and prices have doubled or tripled. Why?
    Covid Lockdown legacy.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Leon said:

    Is consumer spending really in the khazi?

    “Service sector ends year on a high
    Recovery in consumer spending eases recession fears”

    - Times, yesterday

    Reading this site you would think everyone in the UK was having gruel for dinner every night.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,240

    viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Used car game is red hot at the moment which is very unusual for January. I had to pay strong money for a ratty non-running E34 535i and I only want the fucking oil pan from it.

    Yes I've noticed that. There's a second-hand car lot in my area and prices have doubled or tripled. Why?
    Covid Lockdown legacy.
    If people are short of cash and need a new car, they will go for secondhand rather than new.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,239

    Talking about scumbags....Joey Barton appears to be another that is having the social-media fuelled mid-life crisis...

    Addressing Aluko, he wrote on X: 'How is she even talking about Men's football. She can't even kick a ball properly. Your coverage of the game EFC last night, took it to a new low. Eni Aluko and Lucy Ward, the Fred and Rose West of football commentary.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12929489/Joey-Barton-attacks-ITVs-FA-Cup-round-punditry-team-sick-taunt-Eni-Aluko-commentator-Lucy-Ward-claims-coverage-reached-new-low.html

    I have a small smidge of sympathy with the arguments around womens footballers commentating on mens football. Until recently womens football was played in front of tiny crowds and frankly the standard was abysmal. There is no comparison in experience of female players with the mens premiership and international game, so if you are employing them on the basis of their experience, its wrong. If you are employing them for their knowledge of football and their love of the game, thats a different matter. In the same way I wouldn't expect male footballers to have much of a concept of womens football.

    But fundamentally, Barton is a dick
    His wider criticism is true, that in general the quality of commentary and analysis on Sky, TNT, BBC (maleand female) is piss poor and they don't know very much about the tactics behind the modern game...and that there are people on the t'interweb that actually do know, but they never get an opportunity.
    The broader point is true of many sports - the talking heads often have no idea. There was some rowing coverage at the last Olympics where the presenters who had a clue (ex-rowers) weren’t present - dire.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    edited January 5

    Leon said:

    Is consumer spending really in the khazi?

    “Service sector ends year on a high
    Recovery in consumer spending eases recession fears”

    - Times, yesterday

    Reading this site you would think everyone in the UK was having gruel for dinner every night.
    It's [edit] disproportionately middle class educated males in settled careers or retired on here, though.

    Plus some of us have it daily, only we have it for breakfast and call it porridge.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,344

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    After some faff, have agreed with Halifax to pay a reduced Liz Truss tax on my mortgage from next month.

    Like the "tax cut" that Sunak is claiming, I will be paying a chunk more in mortgage payments, albeit not as big a chunk as it could have been.

    Are the Tories really expecting that people paying a bigger tax bill and bigger mortgage bill will be appreciative enough to change their mind about kicking them out?

    On the one hand, Happiness = expectation vs reality

    On the other, I was constantly surprised (and expressed this on here) over the last 14 months as to the levels of eating out, pub occupancy etc that I witnessed as I travel around the country (I'm away up to 1/4 of the year on business). I predicted that we'd avoid recession on that basis.

    Since Christmas, it seems dead. Now, I know it is only Jan 5th, but what I'm seeing is drastic - and much lower than last year. So I'm expecting a pretty big drop in consumer spending over the next few months.
    Hospitality always sees an incredible drop in January, which is part of the reason why I completely despise the concept of "dry January" and whoever came up with that - and will never cheer on, encourage or otherwise celebrate anyone engaging in that.

    I pity those who work in hospitality at this time of year, and for people to organise "charitable" aims to make their life harder at this time of year, I find it despicable.

    If you feel like you can't get through the day without alcohol, you need serious help. If you can, then don't go out of your way and encourage others to do so to make time even harder for others.
    As I said, I travel a lot every month. This year seems far worse than usual.
    Its only the fifth, I couldn't make any comments yet on "this year" which has only been running from Monday-Thursday, the worst days for hospitality anyway so far this year.

    Yesterday I was out in Edinburgh and people were queuing for restaurants when they opened. The restaurant we ate at, later, was very busy - but it was also on the Royal Mile, so I rather suspect it never really struggles for customers.
    I went to see the Nutrcracker a week ago, and then, out for dinner. Not only was the Coliseum packed, but central London was heaving with people.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,769

    Leon said:

    Is consumer spending really in the khazi?

    “Service sector ends year on a high
    Recovery in consumer spending eases recession fears”

    - Times, yesterday

    Reading this site you would think everyone in the UK was having gruel for dinner every night.
    Actually you'd think they were all fasting, waiting for keto (like waiting for Godot but somehow even more boring).
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,393

    Leon said:

    Is consumer spending really in the khazi?

    “Service sector ends year on a high
    Recovery in consumer spending eases recession fears”

    - Times, yesterday

    Reading this site you would think everyone in the UK was having gruel for dinner every night.
    Gruel? Luxury! We can't afford gruel under the Tories...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited January 5

    Talking about scumbags....Joey Barton appears to be another that is having the social-media fuelled mid-life crisis...

    Addressing Aluko, he wrote on X: 'How is she even talking about Men's football. She can't even kick a ball properly. Your coverage of the game EFC last night, took it to a new low. Eni Aluko and Lucy Ward, the Fred and Rose West of football commentary.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12929489/Joey-Barton-attacks-ITVs-FA-Cup-round-punditry-team-sick-taunt-Eni-Aluko-commentator-Lucy-Ward-claims-coverage-reached-new-low.html

    I have a small smidge of sympathy with the arguments around womens footballers commentating on mens football. Until recently womens football was played in front of tiny crowds and frankly the standard was abysmal. There is no comparison in experience of female players with the mens premiership and international game, so if you are employing them on the basis of their experience, its wrong. If you are employing them for their knowledge of football and their love of the game, thats a different matter. In the same way I wouldn't expect male footballers to have much of a concept of womens football.

    But fundamentally, Barton is a dick
    His wider criticism is true, that in general the quality of commentary and analysis on Sky, TNT, BBC (maleand female) is piss poor and they don't know very much about the tactics behind the modern game...and that there are people on the t'interweb that actually do know, but they never get an opportunity.
    The broader point is true of many sports - the talking heads often have no idea. There was some rowing coverage at the last Olympics where the presenters who had a clue (ex-rowers) weren’t present - dire.
    Having a main commentator explain the action who doesn't know this in-depth knowledge is fine, but the colour commentator and analysts they for studio segment should absolutely know. Again, Sky were genius in getting Butch Harmon do this for their Master coverage, the bloke who actually coaches all the best players.

    It is skill to be able to disseminate the technical information to the wider public, but the starting point should be you actually know this stuff. Too many particularly in football are absolutely clueless.
  • viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Used car game is red hot at the moment which is very unusual for January. I had to pay strong money for a ratty non-running E34 535i and I only want the fucking oil pan from it.

    Yes I've noticed that. There's a second-hand car lot in my area and prices have doubled or tripled. Why?
    Covid Lockdown legacy.
    If people are short of cash and need a new car, they will go for secondhand rather than new.
    Covid utterly buggered both the sales and the supply chains of new vehicles for a couple of years. The shutdown messed with the entire supply chain especially computer chips which meant production couldn't just resume or catch up post lockdown.

    As a result many people had to turn to secondhand vehicles, seeing a surge in demand.

    Those sales and production that never happened 3-4 years ago would now in normal times be 3-4 year old cars, many of which would now be entering the secondhand market for the first time but can't because those cars don't exist, so there's a reduced supply.

    Coupled with that older vehicles were damaged by lockdown (old vehicles especially don't like sitting idle, its not good for the vehicle) meaning many people are seeking to have to replace vehicles sooner than they might otherwise.

    All in all, Covid completely buggered the car market and upended both supply and demand and its legacy is most clear in the secondhand market today.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Is consumer spending really in the khazi?

    “Service sector ends year on a high
    Recovery in consumer spending eases recession fears”

    - Times, yesterday

    Reading this site you would think everyone in the UK was having gruel for dinner every night.
    It's [edit] disproportionately middle class educated males in settled careers or retired on here, though.

    Plus some of us have it daily, only we have it for breakfast and call it porridge.
    I believe broth is an accepted alternative ?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,872

    Talking about scumbags....Joey Barton appears to be another that is having the social-media fuelled mid-life crisis...

    Addressing Aluko, he wrote on X: 'How is she even talking about Men's football. She can't even kick a ball properly. Your coverage of the game EFC last night, took it to a new low. Eni Aluko and Lucy Ward, the Fred and Rose West of football commentary.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12929489/Joey-Barton-attacks-ITVs-FA-Cup-round-punditry-team-sick-taunt-Eni-Aluko-commentator-Lucy-Ward-claims-coverage-reached-new-low.html

    I have a small smidge of sympathy with the arguments around womens footballers commentating on mens football. Until recently womens football was played in front of tiny crowds and frankly the standard was abysmal. There is no comparison in experience of female players with the mens premiership and international game, so if you are employing them on the basis of their experience, its wrong. If you are employing them for their knowledge of football and their love of the game, thats a different matter. In the same way I wouldn't expect male footballers to have much of a concept of womens football.

    But fundamentally, Barton is a dick
    His wider criticism is true, that in general the quality of commentary and analysis on Sky, TNT, BBC (maleand female) is piss poor and they don't know very much about the tactics behind the modern game...and that there are people on the t'interweb that actually do know, but they never get an opportunity.
    The broader point is true of many sports - the talking heads often have no idea. There was some rowing coverage at the last Olympics where the presenters who had a clue (ex-rowers) weren’t present - dire.
    Clare Balding's reputation was forged on doing her homework for the Beijing Olympics. Ironically, she was imo less good at horseracing where she'd rely on her own background knowledge.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068

    viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Used car game is red hot at the moment which is very unusual for January. I had to pay strong money for a ratty non-running E34 535i and I only want the fucking oil pan from it.

    Yes I've noticed that. There's a second-hand car lot in my area and prices have doubled or tripled. Why?
    Covid Lockdown legacy.
    If people are short of cash and need a new car, they will go for secondhand rather than new.
    Covid utterly buggered both the sales and the supply chains of new vehicles for a couple of years. The shutdown messed with the entire supply chain especially computer chips which meant production couldn't just resume or catch up post lockdown.

    As a result many people had to turn to secondhand vehicles, seeing a surge in demand.

    Those sales and production that never happened 3-4 years ago would now in normal times be 3-4 year old cars, many of which would now be entering the secondhand market for the first time but can't because those cars don't exist, so there's a reduced supply.

    Coupled with that older vehicles were damaged by lockdown (old vehicles especially don't like sitting idle, its not good for the vehicle) meaning many people are seeking to have to replace vehicles sooner than they might otherwise.

    All in all, Covid completely buggered the car market and upended both supply and demand and its legacy is most clear in the secondhand market today.
    Good explanation thank you.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132
    edited January 5

    Britain's decaying Royal Navy: Warships decommissioned because there's no sailors to sail them
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/britain-s-decaying-royal-navy-warships-decommissioned-because-there-s-no-sailors-to-sail-them/ar-AA1muW5B

    Four decades of Tory defence cuts.

    This story seems to contain quite a large % of BS, especially the Telegraph version - to be expected from a Telegraph generalist correspondent on a specialist topic. Telegraph behaving like the Times?

    They claim a "recent refit" wrt to HMS Westminster. Actually that one was refitted in 2017, which is not recent. Withdrawal of HMS Westminster has been a story for the best part of a year.

    HMS Argyll to be scrapped? Dunno - why should we believe a paper that can't report public knowledge correctly?

    Due to recruitment? May or may not be true. Sounds like the normal sort of story Captain Mainwaring plants 3 months before a budget. Presumably we are due something Real Soon Now from an unidentified US General saying how the British Army is on its last legs unless XYZ wibble-wobble-wurble.

    I'd call this down to a) Recovery from Cameron's decimation of the armed forces has not happened yet, b) Govt Treasury-driven short-termism over the subsequent 10 years, c) Reckless Rishi wanting to spend the money on butt-saving not Defence, which is why the Defence Budget has been cut this year, at a time of increasing threat.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...
    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:
    RIP I will most remember him for the excellent Hitchens and Draper panel on Talkradio though he played a key part in New Labour too
    What a nice eulogy HY.

    It's a shame that Root and Urquhart couldn't control their partisan vitriol on today of all days.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Used car game is red hot at the moment which is very unusual for January. I had to pay strong money for a ratty non-running E34 535i and I only want the fucking oil pan from it.

    Oh, what do you do with the motor once the oil pan has been cannibalised from it? Get a spare oil pan from the maker? But wouldn't that be the logical thing to do instead?
    The engine is seized so it's scrap. I need the oil pan to make my S54 engine fit in the E30 that's on its way from South Africa. The only clean example I can find was attached to a car so I had to buy the whole fucking thing. Inevitably there will be 6 on eBay next week. I also need an E36 325i for the flywheel, engine harness, sensors, etc. It's not a swap for the faint hearted.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited January 5

    Talking about scumbags....Joey Barton appears to be another that is having the social-media fuelled mid-life crisis...

    Addressing Aluko, he wrote on X: 'How is she even talking about Men's football. She can't even kick a ball properly. Your coverage of the game EFC last night, took it to a new low. Eni Aluko and Lucy Ward, the Fred and Rose West of football commentary.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12929489/Joey-Barton-attacks-ITVs-FA-Cup-round-punditry-team-sick-taunt-Eni-Aluko-commentator-Lucy-Ward-claims-coverage-reached-new-low.html

    I have a small smidge of sympathy with the arguments around womens footballers commentating on mens football. Until recently womens football was played in front of tiny crowds and frankly the standard was abysmal. There is no comparison in experience of female players with the mens premiership and international game, so if you are employing them on the basis of their experience, its wrong. If you are employing them for their knowledge of football and their love of the game, thats a different matter. In the same way I wouldn't expect male footballers to have much of a concept of womens football.

    But fundamentally, Barton is a dick
    His wider criticism is true, that in general the quality of commentary and analysis on Sky, TNT, BBC (maleand female) is piss poor and they don't know very much about the tactics behind the modern game...and that there are people on the t'interweb that actually do know, but they never get an opportunity.
    The broader point is true of many sports - the talking heads often have no idea. There was some rowing coverage at the last Olympics where the presenters who had a clue (ex-rowers) weren’t present - dire.
    Clare Balding's reputation was forged on doing her homework for the Beijing Olympics. Ironically, she was imo less good at horseracing where she'd rely on her own background knowledge.
    The Olympics is obviously a unique scenario where once every four years people are expected to try and cover sports that outside of that special couple of weeks has virtually no coverage and limited following. For major sport like football there is absolutely no excuse.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited January 5

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:
    RIP I will most remember him for the excellent Hitchens and Draper panel on Talkradio though he played a key part in New Labour too
    What a nice eulogy HY.

    It's a shame that Root and Urquhart couldn't control their partisan vitriol on today of all days.
    What he was involved in was absolutely disgusting. My point was directed at the BBC, who again has been economical with the truth, whitewashing what was some of the most scummy behaviour in modern political life. As others have said it does appear that after that he turned his life around.

    I don't for instance expect (nor should they) when Boris passes, that the media forgets to tell about some of his disgusting behaviour.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Sad to hear about Derek Draper. Many of us will remember him as a Labour-aligned political commentator in the Gordon Brown days.

    Sadly he was very sick for nearly the last four years, after being one fo the first people in the country to get Covid that left him in intensive care for several months.

    RIP.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,897
    edited January 5
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    Flanner said:

    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Sir Howard Davies: Not that difficult to buy a home, says NatWest chair"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67890334

    "Torsten Bell, boss of the Resolution Foundation think tank which focuses on improving living standards for those on low to middle incomes, tweeted prior to Sir Howard's comments that the most common living arrangement for an adult aged between 18 and 34 in 1997 was "being in a couple with children".

    "Today the most common is... living with your parents""
    Whether one blames it on Labour, Conservatives, or anybody else, there is no doubt we have really, really fucked up the post-Cold-War generation. A generation that can't buy a house and start a family in their 20s is going to have massively reduced life outcomes in their 40/50/60s.

    "A generation that can't buy a house and start a family in their 20s is going to have massively reduced life outcomes in their 40/50/60s."

    Cobblers.

    In my parents' generation, 60% of the population couldn't buy a house in their 20's - or at any other point in their lives. Not a single family in my neighbourhood when I left it for university in the late1960s owned their own house. And, btw, nothing Thatcher did changed things for people renting privately: when we moved my parents into sheltered accommodation in the 1990s, no-one in the neighbourhood owned their house.
    I know that. But consider the implications of what you just said
    • i) Your parents were born around the 1930/40s ("...left it for university in the late1960s...")
    • ii) Your parents had at least one child (you) in their teens/20s.
    • iii) Your parents had a better life outcome (they had you) than the teens/twentysomethings of today

    Did they? They didn't own their homes either and indeed never owned a home unlike 60%+ of today's UK population, nor did they go to university unlike close to 50% of today's teens and twentysomethings
    I'm pretty sure our parents had children.

    So do today's, just fewer of them.

    That is largely a lifestyle choice, today's young people prefer to spend their 20s and often early 30s having fun, travelling, eating out, going to clubs, buying fancy phones and having hook ups rather than settling down and marrying and having 2 to 3 children.

    By the time they do decide to settle down and and marry and/or have children that is normally in their 30s.

    50 to 100 years ago more rented than now and incomes were less but they still married earlier and had more children than couples today. Of course more graduates, more women in the workplace and fewer being religious and getting married in the UK also a factor
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132
    Dipping my toe into the football whirlpool, is Joey Barton credible?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174

    Talking about scumbags....Joey Barton appears to be another that is having the social-media fuelled mid-life crisis...

    Addressing Aluko, he wrote on X: 'How is she even talking about Men's football. She can't even kick a ball properly. Your coverage of the game EFC last night, took it to a new low. Eni Aluko and Lucy Ward, the Fred and Rose West of football commentary.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12929489/Joey-Barton-attacks-ITVs-FA-Cup-round-punditry-team-sick-taunt-Eni-Aluko-commentator-Lucy-Ward-claims-coverage-reached-new-low.html

    I have a small smidge of sympathy with the arguments around womens footballers commentating on mens football. Until recently womens football was played in front of tiny crowds and frankly the standard was abysmal. There is no comparison in experience of female players with the mens premiership and international game, so if you are employing them on the basis of their experience, its wrong. If you are employing them for their knowledge of football and their love of the game, thats a different matter. In the same way I wouldn't expect male footballers to have much of a concept of womens football.

    But fundamentally, Barton is a dick
    His wider criticism is true, that in general the quality of commentary and analysis on Sky, TNT, BBC (male and female) is piss poor and they don't know very much about the tactics behind the modern game...and that there are people on the t'interweb that actually do know, but they never get an opportunity.

    Sky Cricket came to this realisation 5 years ago or so and out went Botham, Holding etc. Compare their lazy analysis where they didn't even know the players, let alone the tactics, versus an Eoin Morgan or Kumar Sangakkara.

    For the most part, football coverage is still stuck in the dark ages.
    The only programme I make an effort to watch is Monday Night Football. I don't always agree with the analysis but at least a bit of thought goes into it.

    Obviously, there is nothing wrong with having female pundits. However, the idea that they are qualified to talk about the men's game because they played at the top of the women's game is erroneous. I would be very happy if we moved away from having (solely) ex-pros as pundits. At World Cups, I always think it would be much better to have Tim Vickery on games featuring South American teams. The regular pundits can have an opinion on the Ecuadorian left back that they've seen play for Brighton, but for any not based in England, they are clueless.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    MattW said:

    Britain's decaying Royal Navy: Warships decommissioned because there's no sailors to sail them
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/britain-s-decaying-royal-navy-warships-decommissioned-because-there-s-no-sailors-to-sail-them/ar-AA1muW5B

    Four decades of Tory defence cuts.

    This story seems to contain quite a large % of BS, especially the Telegraph version - to be expected from a Telegraph generalist correspondent on a specialist topic. Telegraph behaving like the Times?

    They claim a "recent refit" wrt to HMS Westminster. Actually that one was refitted in 2017, which is not recent. Withdrawal of HMS Westminster has been a story for the best part of a year.

    HMS Argyll to be scrapped? Dunno - why should we believe a paper that can't report public knowledge correctly?

    Due to recruitment? May or may not be true. Sounds like the normal sort of story Captain Mainwaring plants 3 months before a budget. Presumably we are due something Real Soon Now from an unidentified US General saying how the British Army is on its last legs unless XYZ wibble-wobble-wurble.

    I'd call this down to a) Recovery from Cameron's decimation of the armed forces has not happened yet, b) Govt Treasury-driven short-termism over the subsequent 10 years, c) Reckless Rishi wanting to spend the money on butt-saving not Defence, which is why the Defence Budget has been cut this year, at a time of increasing threat.
    Argyll is the oldest T23 so it wouldn’t surprise me if they got her into dry dock for upkeep last year and realised she was beyond saving.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited January 5
    MattW said:

    Dipping my toe into the football whirlpool, is Joey Barton credible?

    Well that's a good question. He has been involved until very recently in coaching / management, but doesn't appear to be super successful at it. I can't say that I have ever heard him articulate inside baseball style football knowledge in the past.

    I am sure that some of his vitriol was at one point he was being given quite a few of these gigs in the media, talked up as despite his previous background a man of surprising intelligence etc.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,125

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    After some faff, have agreed with Halifax to pay a reduced Liz Truss tax on my mortgage from next month.

    Like the "tax cut" that Sunak is claiming, I will be paying a chunk more in mortgage payments, albeit not as big a chunk as it could have been.

    Are the Tories really expecting that people paying a bigger tax bill and bigger mortgage bill will be appreciative enough to change their mind about kicking them out?

    On the one hand, Happiness = expectation vs reality

    On the other, I was constantly surprised (and expressed this on here) over the last 14 months as to the levels of eating out, pub occupancy etc that I witnessed as I travel around the country (I'm away up to 1/4 of the year on business). I predicted that we'd avoid recession on that basis.

    Since Christmas, it seems dead. Now, I know it is only Jan 5th, but what I'm seeing is drastic - and much lower than last year. So I'm expecting a pretty big drop in consumer spending over the next few months.
    Hospitality always sees an incredible drop in January, which is part of the reason why I completely despise the concept of "dry January" and whoever came up with that - and will never cheer on, encourage or otherwise celebrate anyone engaging in that.

    I pity those who work in hospitality at this time of year, and for people to organise "charitable" aims to make their life harder at this time of year, I find it despicable.

    If you feel like you can't get through the day without alcohol, you need serious help. If you can, then don't go out of your way and encourage others to do so to make time even harder for others.
    As I said, I travel a lot every month. This year seems far worse than usual.
    Its only the fifth, I couldn't make any comments yet on "this year" which has only been running from Monday-Thursday, the worst days for hospitality anyway so far this year.

    Yesterday I was out in Edinburgh and people were queuing for restaurants when they opened. The restaurant we ate at, later, was very busy - but it was also on the Royal Mile, so I rather suspect it never really struggles for customers.
    Good point!

    Lets hope it isn't as bad as I fear.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:
    RIP I will most remember him for the excellent Hitchens and Draper panel on Talkradio though he played a key part in New Labour too
    What a nice eulogy HY.

    It's a shame that Root and Urquhart couldn't control their partisan vitriol on today of all days.
    What he was involved in was absolutely disgusting. My point was directed at the BBC, who again has been economical with the truth, whitewashing what was some of the most scummy behaviour in modern political life. As others have said it does appear that after that he turned his life around.

    I don't for instance expect (nor should they) when Boris passes, that the media forgets to tell about some of his disgusting behaviour.
    Final paragraph.

    I very much doubt they will.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,393

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:
    RIP I will most remember him for the excellent Hitchens and Draper panel on Talkradio though he played a key part in New Labour too
    What a nice eulogy HY.

    It's a shame that Root and Urquhart couldn't control their partisan vitriol on today of all days.
    What he was involved in was absolutely disgusting. My point was directed at the BBC, who again has been economical with the truth, whitewashing what was some of the most scummy behaviour in modern political life. As others have said it does appear that after that he turned his life around.

    I don't for instance expect (nor should they) when Boris passes, that the media forgets to tell about some of his disgusting behaviour.
    I think this just another example where some scroats nick a car, crash it, killing themselves in the process and are subsequently described as 'lovely lads', 'do anything for anybody' etc.

    Don't speak ill of the dead.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited January 5
    tlg86 said:

    Talking about scumbags....Joey Barton appears to be another that is having the social-media fuelled mid-life crisis...

    Addressing Aluko, he wrote on X: 'How is she even talking about Men's football. She can't even kick a ball properly. Your coverage of the game EFC last night, took it to a new low. Eni Aluko and Lucy Ward, the Fred and Rose West of football commentary.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12929489/Joey-Barton-attacks-ITVs-FA-Cup-round-punditry-team-sick-taunt-Eni-Aluko-commentator-Lucy-Ward-claims-coverage-reached-new-low.html

    I have a small smidge of sympathy with the arguments around womens footballers commentating on mens football. Until recently womens football was played in front of tiny crowds and frankly the standard was abysmal. There is no comparison in experience of female players with the mens premiership and international game, so if you are employing them on the basis of their experience, its wrong. If you are employing them for their knowledge of football and their love of the game, thats a different matter. In the same way I wouldn't expect male footballers to have much of a concept of womens football.

    But fundamentally, Barton is a dick
    His wider criticism is true, that in general the quality of commentary and analysis on Sky, TNT, BBC (male and female) is piss poor and they don't know very much about the tactics behind the modern game...and that there are people on the t'interweb that actually do know, but they never get an opportunity.

    Sky Cricket came to this realisation 5 years ago or so and out went Botham, Holding etc. Compare their lazy analysis where they didn't even know the players, let alone the tactics, versus an Eoin Morgan or Kumar Sangakkara.

    For the most part, football coverage is still stuck in the dark ages.
    The only programme I make an effort to watch is Monday Night Football. I don't always agree with the analysis but at least a bit of thought goes into it.

    Obviously, there is nothing wrong with having female pundits. However, the idea that they are qualified to talk about the men's game because they played at the top of the women's game is erroneous. I would be very happy if we moved away from having (solely) ex-pros as pundits. At World Cups, I always think it would be much better to have Tim Vickery on games featuring South American teams. The regular pundits can have an opinion on the Ecuadorian left back that they've seen play for Brighton, but for any not based in England, they are clueless.
    Tim Vickery is a great example of a pundit that never played football but whose knowledge of the South American game in terms of the clubs, the politics, the players, is second to none.

    There are also other skills presenters can bring. Kate Abdo is a fantastic host of Champions League for US tv, capable of speaking multiple languages, she is both able to translate in real time when players speak to the home broadcasters, but can also hold interviews with the same players in whatever language they are most comfortable.
  • Talking about scumbags....Joey Barton appears to be another that is having the social-media fuelled mid-life crisis...

    Addressing Aluko, he wrote on X: 'How is she even talking about Men's football. She can't even kick a ball properly. Your coverage of the game EFC last night, took it to a new low. Eni Aluko and Lucy Ward, the Fred and Rose West of football commentary.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12929489/Joey-Barton-attacks-ITVs-FA-Cup-round-punditry-team-sick-taunt-Eni-Aluko-commentator-Lucy-Ward-claims-coverage-reached-new-low.html

    I have a small smidge of sympathy with the arguments around womens footballers commentating on mens football. Until recently womens football was played in front of tiny crowds and frankly the standard was abysmal. There is no comparison in experience of female players with the mens premiership and international game, so if you are employing them on the basis of their experience, its wrong. If you are employing them for their knowledge of football and their love of the game, thats a different matter. In the same way I wouldn't expect male footballers to have much of a concept of womens football.

    But fundamentally, Barton is a dick
    His wider criticism is true, that in general the quality of commentary and analysis on Sky, TNT, BBC (male and female) is piss poor and they don't know very much about the tactics behind the modern game...and that there are people on the t'interweb that actually do know, but they never get an opportunity.

    Sky Cricket came to this realisation 5 years ago or so and out went Botham, Holding etc. Compare their lazy analysis where they didn't even know the players, let alone the tactics, versus an Eoin Morgan or Kumar Sangakkara.

    For the most part, football coverage is still stuck in the dark ages.
    Agreed. The likes of Keown don't even bother learning the players' names. This will be particularly evident in FA Cup coverage, such as this weekend, when "smaller" clubs appear live on TV.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    MattW said:

    Dipping my toe into the football whirlpool, is Joey Barton credible?

    Good player but a psycho. Did nothing of any note as a manager apart from filling in Barnsely's manager in the tunnel.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,393

    MattW said:

    Dipping my toe into the football whirlpool, is Joey Barton credible?

    Well that's a good question. He has been involved until very recently in coaching / management, but doesn't appear to be super successful at it. I can't say that I have ever heard him articulate inside baseball style football knowledge in the past.

    I am sure that some of his vitriol was at one point he was being given quite a few of these gigs in the media, talked up as despite his previous background a man of surprising intelligence etc.
    Yep - I am sure some of it is frustration at not getting the gig himself. Of course his misdemeanours have rather ruined that option.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132
    edited January 5
    Dura_Ace said:

    MattW said:

    Britain's decaying Royal Navy: Warships decommissioned because there's no sailors to sail them
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/britain-s-decaying-royal-navy-warships-decommissioned-because-there-s-no-sailors-to-sail-them/ar-AA1muW5B

    Four decades of Tory defence cuts.

    This story seems to contain quite a large % of BS, especially the Telegraph version - to be expected from a Telegraph generalist correspondent on a specialist topic. Telegraph behaving like the Times?

    They claim a "recent refit" wrt to HMS Westminster. Actually that one was refitted in 2017, which is not recent. Withdrawal of HMS Westminster has been a story for the best part of a year.

    HMS Argyll to be scrapped? Dunno - why should we believe a paper that can't report public knowledge correctly?

    Due to recruitment? May or may not be true. Sounds like the normal sort of story Captain Mainwaring plants 3 months before a budget. Presumably we are due something Real Soon Now from an unidentified US General saying how the British Army is on its last legs unless XYZ wibble-wobble-wurble.

    I'd call this down to a) Recovery from Cameron's decimation of the armed forces has not happened yet, b) Govt Treasury-driven short-termism over the subsequent 10 years, c) Reckless Rishi wanting to spend the money on butt-saving not Defence, which is why the Defence Budget has been cut this year, at a time of increasing threat.
    Argyll is the oldest T23 so it wouldn’t surprise me if they got her into dry dock for upkeep last year and realised she was beyond saving.
    As I have it and iirc Argyll went active in 1991 and Westminster in 1992.

    It is credible that the £100m or whatever to extend Argyll for a putative 5 years, which refit will take 2-4 years to complete, is seen as better spent on the newbuilds.

    But I won't believe it just because the Telegraph and GB News say so :wink: .
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132

    tlg86 said:

    Talking about scumbags....Joey Barton appears to be another that is having the social-media fuelled mid-life crisis...

    Addressing Aluko, he wrote on X: 'How is she even talking about Men's football. She can't even kick a ball properly. Your coverage of the game EFC last night, took it to a new low. Eni Aluko and Lucy Ward, the Fred and Rose West of football commentary.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12929489/Joey-Barton-attacks-ITVs-FA-Cup-round-punditry-team-sick-taunt-Eni-Aluko-commentator-Lucy-Ward-claims-coverage-reached-new-low.html

    I have a small smidge of sympathy with the arguments around womens footballers commentating on mens football. Until recently womens football was played in front of tiny crowds and frankly the standard was abysmal. There is no comparison in experience of female players with the mens premiership and international game, so if you are employing them on the basis of their experience, its wrong. If you are employing them for their knowledge of football and their love of the game, thats a different matter. In the same way I wouldn't expect male footballers to have much of a concept of womens football.

    But fundamentally, Barton is a dick
    His wider criticism is true, that in general the quality of commentary and analysis on Sky, TNT, BBC (male and female) is piss poor and they don't know very much about the tactics behind the modern game...and that there are people on the t'interweb that actually do know, but they never get an opportunity.

    Sky Cricket came to this realisation 5 years ago or so and out went Botham, Holding etc. Compare their lazy analysis where they didn't even know the players, let alone the tactics, versus an Eoin Morgan or Kumar Sangakkara.

    For the most part, football coverage is still stuck in the dark ages.
    The only programme I make an effort to watch is Monday Night Football. I don't always agree with the analysis but at least a bit of thought goes into it.

    Obviously, there is nothing wrong with having female pundits. However, the idea that they are qualified to talk about the men's game because they played at the top of the women's game is erroneous. I would be very happy if we moved away from having (solely) ex-pros as pundits. At World Cups, I always think it would be much better to have Tim Vickery on games featuring South American teams. The regular pundits can have an opinion on the Ecuadorian left back that they've seen play for Brighton, but for any not based in England, they are clueless.
    Tim Vickery is a great example of a pundit that never played football but whose knowledge of the South American game in terms of the clubs, the politics, the players, is second to none.

    There are also other skills presenters can bring. Kate Abdo is a fantastic host of Champions League for US tv, capable of speaking multiple languages, she is both able to translate in real time when players speak to the home broadcasters, but can also hold interviews with the same players in whatever language they are most comfortable.
    I guess we are back to "Lived Experience" !
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited January 5

    MattW said:

    Dipping my toe into the football whirlpool, is Joey Barton credible?

    Well that's a good question. He has been involved until very recently in coaching / management, but doesn't appear to be super successful at it. I can't say that I have ever heard him articulate inside baseball style football knowledge in the past.

    I am sure that some of his vitriol was at one point he was being given quite a few of these gigs in the media, talked up as despite his previous background a man of surprising intelligence etc.
    Yep - I am sure some of it is frustration at not getting the gig himself. Of course his misdemeanours have rather ruined that option.
    What is really interesting is if you see videos of people like Sean Dyche talk football. A man most people think just plays kick it and rush football and big gruff exterior means he was lucky or won through scaring his players into maximum effort at Burley.

    There are videos on the internet of him talking firstly talking tactics...it really is another level stuff compared to what you might even here on Monday Night Football, let alone trash on MOTD. Then there are also videos of his talking about management, man management, physiology, he is an extremely impressive and well read individual...so think what the absolute S-tier managers are like.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    DavidL said:

    Stocky said:

    TimS said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Is there anything more delicious than a fried egg? Just a little salt and pepper on top... Perfection!

    A poached egg - less grease
    Two poached eggs on hot toasted Borough sourdough with a dash of soy, cracked kampot pepper and seasalt, and a few chill flakes

    Mmmmmmmmmmmm

    Great, fhe hunger is back. I’d better have some black tea
    I'm mentally replacing the soy with a really good, sharp, homemade hollandaise. One that you essentially want to spoon directly out of the pan into your face.
    MSG shortcuts all that wholesome homemade goodness and just gives you pure yum. Cheap too - a packet at our local corner shop is 50p and it lasts a couple of months. That plus citric acid crystals for acidulating sauces without the danger of splitting.
    Interesting. Is it bad for you? How much do you use, just a pinch? What sot of meals are you adding it to?
    MSG leads to migraines for my wife, so its a no go for us, sadly. I think the mechanism is based just on dehydration as there is no other reason that i have found to link the two.
    Yes, a dry mouth the morning after is definitely a feature too.
    That’s the bottle of wine that washed it down.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,742

    On topic, Mike is half-right and half-wrong.

    Yes, the public does understand that the PM isn't going to commit electoral suicide before he has to. On the other hand, the public does want an election now and calling for one - even if it's unlikely to happen - won't go down badly.

    Whether 'bottled it' is the right phrase to use I'm doubtful about. 'Frit', or some variant, might be better. But the gist is right.

    Isn’t there an argument the Tory strategists, who they pay lot of money to, have wargamed this, modelled this, and come to the conclusion it needs a cheerful, turned a corner, springlike election? Absolutely everything is screaming at us it’s May rather than gathering gloom of a recession hit autumn,, not least the timing of tax cuts and budget and using recent drop in inflation, and sensible avoiding of issues later in the year such as predicted surge in channel crossings, technical recession, business bankruptcies. Tax cuts in spring can actually increase inflation.

    Whilst telling us it’s an election from July onward yesterday, Sunak was specifically asked to rule out May and wouldn’t.
    Media and commentators pay too much attention to technical and arbitrary definitions of 'recessions' (which were only thought up in the first place to palm off ignorant journalists), and not enough to how people are feeling.

    Tory strategists can only go with a turned-the-corner election if people actually think things have turned a corner; not just in the economy but in, say, the NHS too. Not to mention that a Spring election didn't do much for John Major in 1997. Indeed, there's just as much chance that people look to Labour as the seasonal source of renewal.

    But in the end, PMs, given the choice between 'lose now' and 'lose later' will always opt for the latter, unless delaying further looks patently absurd.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    We watched Mr Bates vs the Post Office yesterday. Even though I feel I know a bit about this from the press and @Cyclefree's headers, the series still had the power to shock.

    It was also the hot topic in the gym this morning. Someone suggested Alan Bates should be awarded an MBE for his efforts over 20 years to bring this scandal to justice.

    I mentioned that Paula Vennells got a CBE in 2019, her predecessor Alan Cook got a CBE in 2006. Cue general astonishment and disgust.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    Talking about scumbags....Joey Barton appears to be another that is having the social-media fuelled mid-life crisis...

    Addressing Aluko, he wrote on X: 'How is she even talking about Men's football. She can't even kick a ball properly. Your coverage of the game EFC last night, took it to a new low. Eni Aluko and Lucy Ward, the Fred and Rose West of football commentary.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12929489/Joey-Barton-attacks-ITVs-FA-Cup-round-punditry-team-sick-taunt-Eni-Aluko-commentator-Lucy-Ward-claims-coverage-reached-new-low.html

    I have a small smidge of sympathy with the arguments around womens footballers commentating on mens football. Until recently womens football was played in front of tiny crowds and frankly the standard was abysmal. There is no comparison in experience of female players with the mens premiership and international game, so if you are employing them on the basis of their experience, its wrong. If you are employing them for their knowledge of football and their love of the game, thats a different matter. In the same way I wouldn't expect male footballers to have much of a concept of womens football.

    But fundamentally, Barton is a dick
    His wider criticism is true, that in general the quality of commentary and analysis on Sky, TNT, BBC (male and female) is piss poor and they don't know very much about the tactics behind the modern game...and that there are people on the t'interweb that actually do know, but they never get an opportunity.

    Sky Cricket came to this realisation 5 years ago or so and out went Botham, Holding etc. Compare their lazy analysis where they didn't even know the players, let alone the tactics, versus an Eoin Morgan or Kumar Sangakkara.

    For the most part, football coverage is still stuck in the dark ages.
    Not in touch as much as I was, but I still get the impression that rugby union commentary is quite often done by people who know what they are talking about but have a complete inability to convey it simply enough to people who don't have a close knowledge.

    Football commentary, mostly, is as if a random member of public was doing it. On Radio Cumbria the commentary is a much loved, though not particularly informative art form, going back to the legendary and lamented Derek Lacey, a wonderful man who didn't always know the score or which side was which but was hugely loved.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    We watched Mr Bates vs the Post Office yesterday. Even though I feel I know a bit about this from the press and @Cyclefree's headers, the series still had the power to shock.

    It was also the hot topic in the gym this morning. Someone suggested Alan Bates should be awarded an MBE for his efforts over 20 years to bring this scandal to justice.

    I mentioned that Paula Vennells got a CBE in 2019, her predecessor Alan Cook got a CBE in 2006. Cue general astonishment and disgust.

    He was offered one but refused it while Vennells still has hers.

    All this fuss about Davey and some letter he wrote back in 2010, when almost no-one knew anything about it, and there were the Tories giving her a job in the Cabinet Office and an honour in 2019 years after the whole story was as good as exposed, for those that wanted to see.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174
    The BBC are at it again:

    https://twitter.com/BBCAfrica/status/1743064388758606164

    Oscar Pistorius - the fallen hero and his future
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    algarkirk said:

    Talking about scumbags....Joey Barton appears to be another that is having the social-media fuelled mid-life crisis...

    Addressing Aluko, he wrote on X: 'How is she even talking about Men's football. She can't even kick a ball properly. Your coverage of the game EFC last night, took it to a new low. Eni Aluko and Lucy Ward, the Fred and Rose West of football commentary.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12929489/Joey-Barton-attacks-ITVs-FA-Cup-round-punditry-team-sick-taunt-Eni-Aluko-commentator-Lucy-Ward-claims-coverage-reached-new-low.html

    I have a small smidge of sympathy with the arguments around womens footballers commentating on mens football. Until recently womens football was played in front of tiny crowds and frankly the standard was abysmal. There is no comparison in experience of female players with the mens premiership and international game, so if you are employing them on the basis of their experience, its wrong. If you are employing them for their knowledge of football and their love of the game, thats a different matter. In the same way I wouldn't expect male footballers to have much of a concept of womens football.

    But fundamentally, Barton is a dick
    His wider criticism is true, that in general the quality of commentary and analysis on Sky, TNT, BBC (male and female) is piss poor and they don't know very much about the tactics behind the modern game...and that there are people on the t'interweb that actually do know, but they never get an opportunity.

    Sky Cricket came to this realisation 5 years ago or so and out went Botham, Holding etc. Compare their lazy analysis where they didn't even know the players, let alone the tactics, versus an Eoin Morgan or Kumar Sangakkara.

    For the most part, football coverage is still stuck in the dark ages.
    Not in touch as much as I was, but I still get the impression that rugby union commentary is quite often done by people who know what they are talking about but have a complete inability to convey it simply enough to people who don't have a close knowledge.

    Football commentary, mostly, is as if a random member of public was doing it. On Radio Cumbria the commentary is a much loved, though not particularly informative art form, going back to the legendary and lamented Derek Lacey, a wonderful man who didn't always know the score or which side was which but was hugely loved.
    For the rugby, I thought when they have had Nigel Owens as part of expert panel that was a very good move, as so many decisions in rugby are very complicated, such that even active and recently retired players don't fully understand them. I believe he now does S4C commentary of rugby.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited January 5
    tlg86 said:

    The BBC are at it again:

    https://twitter.com/BBCAfrica/status/1743064388758606164

    Oscar Pistorius - the fallen hero and his future

    Are all the senior BBC editors still on holiday and left the children in charge, who are unaware of anything that happened more than 10 years ago?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Used car game is red hot at the moment which is very unusual for January. I had to pay strong money for a ratty non-running E34 535i and I only want the fucking oil pan from it.

    Yes I've noticed that. There's a second-hand car lot in my area and prices have doubled or tripled. Why?
    Covid Lockdown legacy.
    If people are short of cash and need a new car, they will go for secondhand rather than new.
    Covid utterly buggered both the sales and the supply chains of new vehicles for a couple of years. The shutdown messed with the entire supply chain especially computer chips which meant production couldn't just resume or catch up post lockdown.

    As a result many people had to turn to secondhand vehicles, seeing a surge in demand.

    Those sales and production that never happened 3-4 years ago would now in normal times be 3-4 year old cars, many of which would now be entering the secondhand market for the first time but can't because those cars don't exist, so there's a reduced supply.

    Coupled with that older vehicles were damaged by lockdown (old vehicles especially don't like sitting idle, its not good for the vehicle) meaning many people are seeking to have to replace vehicles sooner than they might otherwise.

    All in all, Covid completely buggered the car market and upended both supply and demand and its legacy is most clear in the secondhand market today.
    And in the price of car hire.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Dura_Ace said:

    MattW said:

    Britain's decaying Royal Navy: Warships decommissioned because there's no sailors to sail them
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/britain-s-decaying-royal-navy-warships-decommissioned-because-there-s-no-sailors-to-sail-them/ar-AA1muW5B

    Four decades of Tory defence cuts.

    This story seems to contain quite a large % of BS, especially the Telegraph version - to be expected from a Telegraph generalist correspondent on a specialist topic. Telegraph behaving like the Times?

    They claim a "recent refit" wrt to HMS Westminster. Actually that one was refitted in 2017, which is not recent. Withdrawal of HMS Westminster has been a story for the best part of a year.

    HMS Argyll to be scrapped? Dunno - why should we believe a paper that can't report public knowledge correctly?

    Due to recruitment? May or may not be true. Sounds like the normal sort of story Captain Mainwaring plants 3 months before a budget. Presumably we are due something Real Soon Now from an unidentified US General saying how the British Army is on its last legs unless XYZ wibble-wobble-wurble.

    I'd call this down to a) Recovery from Cameron's decimation of the armed forces has not happened yet, b) Govt Treasury-driven short-termism over the subsequent 10 years, c) Reckless Rishi wanting to spend the money on butt-saving not Defence, which is why the Defence Budget has been cut this year, at a time of increasing threat.
    Argyll is the oldest T23 so it wouldn’t surprise me if they got her into dry dock for upkeep last year and realised she was beyond saving.
    Went in over 18 months ago, though, so they're pretty slow on the uptake if that's the case. Another £100m or so blown ?

    The RN recruitment - and retention - problems are a matter of record, as you often remind us.
    (On that score, I see S Korea has commissioned its first female submariners, probably out of necessity.)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,255
    algarkirk said:

    Talking about scumbags....Joey Barton appears to be another that is having the social-media fuelled mid-life crisis...

    Addressing Aluko, he wrote on X: 'How is she even talking about Men's football. She can't even kick a ball properly. Your coverage of the game EFC last night, took it to a new low. Eni Aluko and Lucy Ward, the Fred and Rose West of football commentary.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12929489/Joey-Barton-attacks-ITVs-FA-Cup-round-punditry-team-sick-taunt-Eni-Aluko-commentator-Lucy-Ward-claims-coverage-reached-new-low.html

    I have a small smidge of sympathy with the arguments around womens footballers commentating on mens football. Until recently womens football was played in front of tiny crowds and frankly the standard was abysmal. There is no comparison in experience of female players with the mens premiership and international game, so if you are employing them on the basis of their experience, its wrong. If you are employing them for their knowledge of football and their love of the game, thats a different matter. In the same way I wouldn't expect male footballers to have much of a concept of womens football.

    But fundamentally, Barton is a dick
    His wider criticism is true, that in general the quality of commentary and analysis on Sky, TNT, BBC (male and female) is piss poor and they don't know very much about the tactics behind the modern game...and that there are people on the t'interweb that actually do know, but they never get an opportunity.

    Sky Cricket came to this realisation 5 years ago or so and out went Botham, Holding etc. Compare their lazy analysis where they didn't even know the players, let alone the tactics, versus an Eoin Morgan or Kumar Sangakkara.

    For the most part, football coverage is still stuck in the dark ages.
    Not in touch as much as I was, but I still get the impression that rugby union commentary is quite often done by people who know what they are talking about but have a complete inability to convey it simply enough to people who don't have a close knowledge.

    Football commentary, mostly, is as if a random member of public was doing it. On Radio Cumbria the commentary is a much loved, though not particularly informative art form, going back to the legendary and lamented Derek Lacey, a wonderful man who didn't always know the score or which side was which but was hugely loved.
    Darts always has the best commentators. I don’t know why. Perhaps because it is such a simple sport they are forced to be creative - and they are

    Enthusiastic, sardonic and funny
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited January 5
    In an attempt to appeal to the masses, Rachel Reeves told Christopher Hope:

    “What makes me wince is when I look at my bank statement, and I find that the money coming in is increasingly short of the money going out.”

    https://order-order.com/2024/01/05/rachel-reeves-heading-into-the-red/

    I wish politicians wouldn't try this nonsense. Just be honest and say a lot of people are struggling, and if people push you say, yes I am personally in a very fortunate position.

    When you earn £350k a year, unless you are like Boris and have had 27 children by 10 different women, you aren't short every month (particularly if you live most weeks with ability to expense a fair chunk / have access to discounted food / drink).
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,639
    dixiedean said:

    "This winter it was revealed by the National Audit Office that the number of properties to receive better protection from flooding by 2027 has been cut by 40%, and 500 of 2,000 new flood defence projects have been abandoned. The government claims the cuts are unavoidable due to high inflation, but it is likely to be more costly to rebuild flood-devastated areas than to protect them in the first place."
    Short term savings, long term costs.
    A potential Tory GE slogan?

    I was unfortunate enough to have to attend the Tory conference in 2012 or something and one of the talks I went to, chaired by him with the teeth who does the '22, was about flooding and flood protection.

    IIRC the gist of the discussion was flood protection is nanny-statism gone mad. If you're foolish enough to buy a house prone to flooding, you'll have to rely on your own insurance. If you can't get insurance, tough. You shouldn't have been foolish enough to buy a house prone to flooding. What we need is stoic resilience and a hearty dose of commonsensical self-reliance.

    Like smart lanes on motorways being a good idea until the inevitable day comes when a broken down family get wiped out by a HGV due to the lack of a hard shoulder, that's all well and good until you get thousands upon thousands of homes underwater.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,742

    algarkirk said:

    Talking about scumbags....Joey Barton appears to be another that is having the social-media fuelled mid-life crisis...

    Addressing Aluko, he wrote on X: 'How is she even talking about Men's football. She can't even kick a ball properly. Your coverage of the game EFC last night, took it to a new low. Eni Aluko and Lucy Ward, the Fred and Rose West of football commentary.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12929489/Joey-Barton-attacks-ITVs-FA-Cup-round-punditry-team-sick-taunt-Eni-Aluko-commentator-Lucy-Ward-claims-coverage-reached-new-low.html

    I have a small smidge of sympathy with the arguments around womens footballers commentating on mens football. Until recently womens football was played in front of tiny crowds and frankly the standard was abysmal. There is no comparison in experience of female players with the mens premiership and international game, so if you are employing them on the basis of their experience, its wrong. If you are employing them for their knowledge of football and their love of the game, thats a different matter. In the same way I wouldn't expect male footballers to have much of a concept of womens football.

    But fundamentally, Barton is a dick
    His wider criticism is true, that in general the quality of commentary and analysis on Sky, TNT, BBC (male and female) is piss poor and they don't know very much about the tactics behind the modern game...and that there are people on the t'interweb that actually do know, but they never get an opportunity.

    Sky Cricket came to this realisation 5 years ago or so and out went Botham, Holding etc. Compare their lazy analysis where they didn't even know the players, let alone the tactics, versus an Eoin Morgan or Kumar Sangakkara.

    For the most part, football coverage is still stuck in the dark ages.
    Not in touch as much as I was, but I still get the impression that rugby union commentary is quite often done by people who know what they are talking about but have a complete inability to convey it simply enough to people who don't have a close knowledge.

    Football commentary, mostly, is as if a random member of public was doing it. On Radio Cumbria the commentary is a much loved, though not particularly informative art form, going back to the legendary and lamented Derek Lacey, a wonderful man who didn't always know the score or which side was which but was hugely loved.
    For the rugby, I thought when they have had Nigel Owens as part of expert panel that was a very good move, as so many decisions in rugby are very complicated, such that even active and recently retired players don't fully understand them. I believe he now does S4C commentary of rugby.
    It was an excellent move. Rugby refs are used to explaining their decisions, accurately and concisely - and to calling what can and can't be done on the field in real time. The move to punditry should be a natural one as long as they can judge when to intervene and when not to.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,393

    algarkirk said:

    Talking about scumbags....Joey Barton appears to be another that is having the social-media fuelled mid-life crisis...

    Addressing Aluko, he wrote on X: 'How is she even talking about Men's football. She can't even kick a ball properly. Your coverage of the game EFC last night, took it to a new low. Eni Aluko and Lucy Ward, the Fred and Rose West of football commentary.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12929489/Joey-Barton-attacks-ITVs-FA-Cup-round-punditry-team-sick-taunt-Eni-Aluko-commentator-Lucy-Ward-claims-coverage-reached-new-low.html

    I have a small smidge of sympathy with the arguments around womens footballers commentating on mens football. Until recently womens football was played in front of tiny crowds and frankly the standard was abysmal. There is no comparison in experience of female players with the mens premiership and international game, so if you are employing them on the basis of their experience, its wrong. If you are employing them for their knowledge of football and their love of the game, thats a different matter. In the same way I wouldn't expect male footballers to have much of a concept of womens football.

    But fundamentally, Barton is a dick
    His wider criticism is true, that in general the quality of commentary and analysis on Sky, TNT, BBC (male and female) is piss poor and they don't know very much about the tactics behind the modern game...and that there are people on the t'interweb that actually do know, but they never get an opportunity.

    Sky Cricket came to this realisation 5 years ago or so and out went Botham, Holding etc. Compare their lazy analysis where they didn't even know the players, let alone the tactics, versus an Eoin Morgan or Kumar Sangakkara.

    For the most part, football coverage is still stuck in the dark ages.
    Not in touch as much as I was, but I still get the impression that rugby union commentary is quite often done by people who know what they are talking about but have a complete inability to convey it simply enough to people who don't have a close knowledge.

    Football commentary, mostly, is as if a random member of public was doing it. On Radio Cumbria the commentary is a much loved, though not particularly informative art form, going back to the legendary and lamented Derek Lacey, a wonderful man who didn't always know the score or which side was which but was hugely loved.
    For the rugby, I thought when they have had Nigel Owens as part of expert panel that was a very good move, as so many decisions in rugby are very complicated, such that even active and recently retired players don't fully understand them. I believe he now does S4C commentary of rugby.
    It was an excellent move. Rugby refs are used to explaining their decisions, accurately and concisely - and to calling what can and can't be done on the field in real time. The move to punditry should be a natural one as long as they can judge when to intervene and when not to.
    As someone who attends rugby at Bath, I would love to have the ref describe his decisions to the crowd (as in American football).
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174

    algarkirk said:

    Talking about scumbags....Joey Barton appears to be another that is having the social-media fuelled mid-life crisis...

    Addressing Aluko, he wrote on X: 'How is she even talking about Men's football. She can't even kick a ball properly. Your coverage of the game EFC last night, took it to a new low. Eni Aluko and Lucy Ward, the Fred and Rose West of football commentary.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12929489/Joey-Barton-attacks-ITVs-FA-Cup-round-punditry-team-sick-taunt-Eni-Aluko-commentator-Lucy-Ward-claims-coverage-reached-new-low.html

    I have a small smidge of sympathy with the arguments around womens footballers commentating on mens football. Until recently womens football was played in front of tiny crowds and frankly the standard was abysmal. There is no comparison in experience of female players with the mens premiership and international game, so if you are employing them on the basis of their experience, its wrong. If you are employing them for their knowledge of football and their love of the game, thats a different matter. In the same way I wouldn't expect male footballers to have much of a concept of womens football.

    But fundamentally, Barton is a dick
    His wider criticism is true, that in general the quality of commentary and analysis on Sky, TNT, BBC (male and female) is piss poor and they don't know very much about the tactics behind the modern game...and that there are people on the t'interweb that actually do know, but they never get an opportunity.

    Sky Cricket came to this realisation 5 years ago or so and out went Botham, Holding etc. Compare their lazy analysis where they didn't even know the players, let alone the tactics, versus an Eoin Morgan or Kumar Sangakkara.

    For the most part, football coverage is still stuck in the dark ages.
    Not in touch as much as I was, but I still get the impression that rugby union commentary is quite often done by people who know what they are talking about but have a complete inability to convey it simply enough to people who don't have a close knowledge.

    Football commentary, mostly, is as if a random member of public was doing it. On Radio Cumbria the commentary is a much loved, though not particularly informative art form, going back to the legendary and lamented Derek Lacey, a wonderful man who didn't always know the score or which side was which but was hugely loved.
    For the rugby, I thought when they have had Nigel Owens as part of expert panel that was a very good move, as so many decisions in rugby are very complicated, such that even active and recently retired players don't fully understand them. I believe he now does S4C commentary of rugby.
    It was an excellent move. Rugby refs are used to explaining their decisions, accurately and concisely - and to calling what can and can't be done on the field in real time. The move to punditry should be a natural one as long as they can judge when to intervene and when not to.
    By contrast, ex-refs don't add much to football.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    edited January 5

    tlg86 said:

    The BBC are at it again:

    https://twitter.com/BBCAfrica/status/1743064388758606164

    Oscar Pistorius - the fallen hero and his future

    Are all the senior BBC editors still on holiday and left the children in charge, who are unaware of anything that happened more than 10 years ago?
    The story itself is fair, pointing out that he was convicted of murder on appeal.
    ...Ms Steenkamp's mother, June, has said she does not believe Pistorius had been rehabilitated nor does she believe his story claiming that he thought her daughter was an intruder on the night he shot her.
    But on the day of his release she said that she and her late husband, Barry, had accepted that parole was part of the South African justice system, though they had never come to terms with their daughter's death.
    "The conditions imposed by the parole board, which includes anger management courses and programmes on gender-based violence, send out a clear message that gender-based violence is taken seriously," her statement said.
    "Has there been justice for Reeva? Has Oscar served enough time? There can never be justice if your loved one is never coming back, and no amount of time served will bring Reeva back. We, who remain behind, are the ones serving a life sentence."..
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited January 5

    We watched Mr Bates vs the Post Office yesterday. Even though I feel I know a bit about this from the press and @Cyclefree's headers, the series still had the power to shock.

    It was also the hot topic in the gym this morning. Someone suggested Alan Bates should be awarded an MBE for his efforts over 20 years to bring this scandal to justice.

    I mentioned that Paula Vennells got a CBE in 2019, her predecessor Alan Cook got a CBE in 2006. Cue general astonishment and disgust.

    Bates should get a knighthood but he would be unlikely to accept any gong until Vennells and Cook return theirs.

    It's the dates that get me. The scandal has been going on for over 20 years now and it's fair to say it was a slow-burner, although not now because of the TV series. Nevertheless the cat was well and truly out of the bag by 2019. So who authorised Vennells' gong? Did nobody even check Wikipedia? What on earth was the Imperial College Healthcare NHS Trust doing giving her a post in April 2019 when it was obvious why she had left the PO. Who made her a non-executive board member of the Cabinet Office in the same year?

    It's hard to escape the conclusion that there is a chumocracy in operation here, or worse, she has a tale to tell and has to be kept sweet.
    See Sir Howard Davies....
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 694
    IanB2 said:

    We watched Mr Bates vs the Post Office yesterday. Even though I feel I know a bit about this from the press and @Cyclefree's headers, the series still had the power to shock.

    It was also the hot topic in the gym this morning. Someone suggested Alan Bates should be awarded an MBE for his efforts over 20 years to bring this scandal to justice.

    I mentioned that Paula Vennells got a CBE in 2019, her predecessor Alan Cook got a CBE in 2006. Cue general astonishment and disgust.

    He was offered one but refused it while Vennells still has hers.

    All this fuss about Davey and some letter he wrote back in 2010, when almost no-one knew anything about it, and there were the Tories giving her a job in the Cabinet Office and an honour in 2019 years after the whole story was as good as exposed, for those that wanted to see.
    It wasn't just "some letter he wrote" in Davey's case. When he left Government office, he took a consultancy with a legal firm that had represented the Post Office and had done its best to screw the staff's appeal.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    IanB2 said:

    viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Used car game is red hot at the moment which is very unusual for January. I had to pay strong money for a ratty non-running E34 535i and I only want the fucking oil pan from it.

    Yes I've noticed that. There's a second-hand car lot in my area and prices have doubled or tripled. Why?
    Covid Lockdown legacy.
    If people are short of cash and need a new car, they will go for secondhand rather than new.
    Covid utterly buggered both the sales and the supply chains of new vehicles for a couple of years. The shutdown messed with the entire supply chain especially computer chips which meant production couldn't just resume or catch up post lockdown.

    As a result many people had to turn to secondhand vehicles, seeing a surge in demand.

    Those sales and production that never happened 3-4 years ago would now in normal times be 3-4 year old cars, many of which would now be entering the secondhand market for the first time but can't because those cars don't exist, so there's a reduced supply.

    Coupled with that older vehicles were damaged by lockdown (old vehicles especially don't like sitting idle, its not good for the vehicle) meaning many people are seeking to have to replace vehicles sooner than they might otherwise.

    All in all, Covid completely buggered the car market and upended both supply and demand and its legacy is most clear in the secondhand market today.
    And in the price of car hire.
    We were lucky to find one an Nimes airport last summer. Only one hire company was supplying and it cost a fortune.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,872
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    MattW said:

    Britain's decaying Royal Navy: Warships decommissioned because there's no sailors to sail them
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/britain-s-decaying-royal-navy-warships-decommissioned-because-there-s-no-sailors-to-sail-them/ar-AA1muW5B

    Four decades of Tory defence cuts.

    This story seems to contain quite a large % of BS, especially the Telegraph version - to be expected from a Telegraph generalist correspondent on a specialist topic. Telegraph behaving like the Times?

    They claim a "recent refit" wrt to HMS Westminster. Actually that one was refitted in 2017, which is not recent. Withdrawal of HMS Westminster has been a story for the best part of a year.

    HMS Argyll to be scrapped? Dunno - why should we believe a paper that can't report public knowledge correctly?

    Due to recruitment? May or may not be true. Sounds like the normal sort of story Captain Mainwaring plants 3 months before a budget. Presumably we are due something Real Soon Now from an unidentified US General saying how the British Army is on its last legs unless XYZ wibble-wobble-wurble.

    I'd call this down to a) Recovery from Cameron's decimation of the armed forces has not happened yet, b) Govt Treasury-driven short-termism over the subsequent 10 years, c) Reckless Rishi wanting to spend the money on butt-saving not Defence, which is why the Defence Budget has been cut this year, at a time of increasing threat.
    Argyll is the oldest T23 so it wouldn’t surprise me if they got her into dry dock for upkeep last year and realised she was beyond saving.
    Went in over 18 months ago, though, so they're pretty slow on the uptake if that's the case. Another £100m or so blown ?

    The RN recruitment - and retention - problems are a matter of record, as you often remind us.
    (On that score, I see S Korea has commissioned its first female submariners, probably out of necessity.)
    There was an American report I can't be bothered to look for that the recruitment problem for submariners is caused by laser eye surgery. Traditionally lot of sunlight-dodgers were wannabe pilots who failed the eyesight tests, but nowadays that can easily be fixed.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,047

    In an attempt to appeal to the masses, Rachel Reeves told Christopher Hope:

    “What makes me wince is when I look at my bank statement, and I find that the money coming in is increasingly short of the money going out.”

    https://order-order.com/2024/01/05/rachel-reeves-heading-into-the-red/

    I wish politicians wouldn't try this nonsense. Just be honest and say a lot of people are struggling, and if people push you say, yes I am personally in a very fortunate position.

    When you earn £350k a year, unless you are like Boris and have had 27 children by 10 different women, you aren't short every month (particularly if you live most weeks with ability to expense a fair chunk / have access to discounted food / drink).

    Reeves doesn't, as far as I know, earn anything close to £350k a year. She'll get £87k as an MP. I don't think she gets anything as Shadow Chancellor, does she? She declared another £23k for writing in 2023. £110k is good, very good, but it's not £350k.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited January 5

    In an attempt to appeal to the masses, Rachel Reeves told Christopher Hope:

    “What makes me wince is when I look at my bank statement, and I find that the money coming in is increasingly short of the money going out.”

    https://order-order.com/2024/01/05/rachel-reeves-heading-into-the-red/

    I wish politicians wouldn't try this nonsense. Just be honest and say a lot of people are struggling, and if people push you say, yes I am personally in a very fortunate position.

    When you earn £350k a year, unless you are like Boris and have had 27 children by 10 different women, you aren't short every month (particularly if you live most weeks with ability to expense a fair chunk / have access to discounted food / drink).

    Reeves doesn't, as far as I know, earn anything close to £350k a year. She'll get £87k as an MP. I don't think she gets anything as Shadow Chancellor, does she? She declared another £23k for writing in 2023. £110k is good, very good, but it's not £350k.
    You are correct, the £350k was donations.

    The point still stands. Her husband is a senior civil servant in the treasury, so their household income is several £100k a year. If they can't stay out of the red with that level of income, you would have to question her ability to run the nations accounts. In reality, she isn't a numpty, so I highly doubt that is the case, and so is leaning into the nonsense of I am just like you struggling to make ends meet.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,323

    algarkirk said:

    Talking about scumbags....Joey Barton appears to be another that is having the social-media fuelled mid-life crisis...

    Addressing Aluko, he wrote on X: 'How is she even talking about Men's football. She can't even kick a ball properly. Your coverage of the game EFC last night, took it to a new low. Eni Aluko and Lucy Ward, the Fred and Rose West of football commentary.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12929489/Joey-Barton-attacks-ITVs-FA-Cup-round-punditry-team-sick-taunt-Eni-Aluko-commentator-Lucy-Ward-claims-coverage-reached-new-low.html

    I have a small smidge of sympathy with the arguments around womens footballers commentating on mens football. Until recently womens football was played in front of tiny crowds and frankly the standard was abysmal. There is no comparison in experience of female players with the mens premiership and international game, so if you are employing them on the basis of their experience, its wrong. If you are employing them for their knowledge of football and their love of the game, thats a different matter. In the same way I wouldn't expect male footballers to have much of a concept of womens football.

    But fundamentally, Barton is a dick
    His wider criticism is true, that in general the quality of commentary and analysis on Sky, TNT, BBC (male and female) is piss poor and they don't know very much about the tactics behind the modern game...and that there are people on the t'interweb that actually do know, but they never get an opportunity.

    Sky Cricket came to this realisation 5 years ago or so and out went Botham, Holding etc. Compare their lazy analysis where they didn't even know the players, let alone the tactics, versus an Eoin Morgan or Kumar Sangakkara.

    For the most part, football coverage is still stuck in the dark ages.
    Not in touch as much as I was, but I still get the impression that rugby union commentary is quite often done by people who know what they are talking about but have a complete inability to convey it simply enough to people who don't have a close knowledge.

    Football commentary, mostly, is as if a random member of public was doing it. On Radio Cumbria the commentary is a much loved, though not particularly informative art form, going back to the legendary and lamented Derek Lacey, a wonderful man who didn't always know the score or which side was which but was hugely loved.
    For the rugby, I thought when they have had Nigel Owens as part of expert panel that was a very good move, as so many decisions in rugby are very complicated, such that even active and recently retired players don't fully understand them. I believe he now does S4C commentary of rugby.
    It was an excellent move. Rugby refs are used to explaining their decisions, accurately and concisely - and to calling what can and can't be done on the field in real time. The move to punditry should be a natural one as long as they can judge when to intervene and when not to.
    As someone who attends rugby at Bath, I would love to have the ref describe his decisions to the crowd (as in American football).
    For fifteen years I refereed soccer at a decent amateur level. Football is a simple game. You can read the entire law book in an evening, and learn it in detail over a fornight. Rugby is vastly more complicated. I have nothing but admiration for Rugby referees, at all levels. Their grasp of the laws and skill in administering them is generally impressive.

    I wish I could be as complimentary about soccer refs, but mostly I find the criticisms widely applied to them as wholly justified.

    So why the difference? Mainly it is down to the organising bodies. The RFU seems to handle the difficult matter of refereeing in an exemplary fashion. The FA is a joke, perhaps more so within the game than with the public at large, which is saying something. Its European and World counterparts are, if anything, worse.

    Matter of culture, I suppose?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Interesting for this to appear on a fairly conservative news site.

    Trump’s evangelical voters remain loyal as he violates the Ten Commandments
    https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4389317-trumps-evangelical-voters-remain-loyal-as-he-violates-the-ten-commandments/
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    I see it’s a day for persuading folk that The Telegraph (& its attached wart, The Spectator) is a noble, shining, independent jewel in the crown of British journalism.

    Good luck with that.

    And the Middle East is a bastion of press freedom.
    Fairly philosophical about Alien and Predator taking chunks out of each other and not much bothered by the outcome tbh. The UK is already in hock to the ME and them replacing the likes of the Barclay brothers and Murdoch doesn’t seem a huge downward move. Almost needless to say but I’ve given up on expecting upward moves in the media landscape.
    You’ve always got The National as that last final bastion of total press liberty. I understand that if you give them a call they will print an extra copy for you
    The National is necessary if only for the Yoon screeches it induces.
    Always interesting how the Yoons try to say "not our fault, your lot's fault" when they made it necessary in the first place, by wrecking the Herald and then having to rush it out to try and recapture some of the lost circulation.

    Personally I'd rather have the Herald and Scotsman back of old before they were terminally Yoonized.
    The Scotsman used to be an excellent newspaper. Then Andrew Neil got involved.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    MattW said:

    Britain's decaying Royal Navy: Warships decommissioned because there's no sailors to sail them
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/britain-s-decaying-royal-navy-warships-decommissioned-because-there-s-no-sailors-to-sail-them/ar-AA1muW5B

    Four decades of Tory defence cuts.

    This story seems to contain quite a large % of BS, especially the Telegraph version - to be expected from a Telegraph generalist correspondent on a specialist topic. Telegraph behaving like the Times?

    They claim a "recent refit" wrt to HMS Westminster. Actually that one was refitted in 2017, which is not recent. Withdrawal of HMS Westminster has been a story for the best part of a year.

    HMS Argyll to be scrapped? Dunno - why should we believe a paper that can't report public knowledge correctly?

    Due to recruitment? May or may not be true. Sounds like the normal sort of story Captain Mainwaring plants 3 months before a budget. Presumably we are due something Real Soon Now from an unidentified US General saying how the British Army is on its last legs unless XYZ wibble-wobble-wurble.

    I'd call this down to a) Recovery from Cameron's decimation of the armed forces has not happened yet, b) Govt Treasury-driven short-termism over the subsequent 10 years, c) Reckless Rishi wanting to spend the money on butt-saving not Defence, which is why the Defence Budget has been cut this year, at a time of increasing threat.
    Argyll is the oldest T23 so it wouldn’t surprise me if they got her into dry dock for upkeep last year and realised she was beyond saving.
    Went in over 18 months ago, though, so they're pretty slow on the uptake if that's the case. Another £100m or so blown ?

    The RN recruitment - and retention - problems are a matter of record, as you often remind us.
    (On that score, I see S Korea has commissioned its first female submariners, probably out of necessity.)
    There was an American report I can't be bothered to look for that the recruitment problem for submariners is caused by laser eye surgery. Traditionally lot of sunlight-dodgers were wannabe pilots who failed the eyesight tests, but nowadays that can easily be fixed.
    As far as our navy is concerned, I think it's more about the money.
    Or lack of it.

    S Korea's demographic problem is something else. The army is starting to get very worried for the future.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    tlg86 said:

    The BBC are at it again:

    https://twitter.com/BBCAfrica/status/1743064388758606164

    Oscar Pistorius - the fallen hero and his future

    I must admit I sympathise for the deceased and Pistorius.

    The only person who knows for sure whether he did it is Pistorius himself. He says he's innocent of culpable homicide but the jury disagreed. It could have gone the other way.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,182

    In an attempt to appeal to the masses, Rachel Reeves told Christopher Hope:

    “What makes me wince is when I look at my bank statement, and I find that the money coming in is increasingly short of the money going out.”

    https://order-order.com/2024/01/05/rachel-reeves-heading-into-the-red/

    I wish politicians wouldn't try this nonsense. Just be honest and say a lot of people are struggling, and if people push you say, yes I am personally in a very fortunate position.

    When you earn £350k a year, unless you are like Boris and have had 27 children by 10 different women, you aren't short every month (particularly if you live most weeks with ability to expense a fair chunk / have access to discounted food / drink).

    Reeves doesn't, as far as I know, earn anything close to £350k a year. She'll get £87k as an MP. I don't think she gets anything as Shadow Chancellor, does she? She declared another £23k for writing in 2023. £110k is good, very good, but it's not £350k.
    You are correct, the £350k was donations.

    The point still stands. Her husband is a senior civil servant in the treasury, so their household income is several £100k a year.
    I was thinking her books must be selling particularly well...

    A single earner on 100k - add in some very young children and I can see how they might feel a touch squeezed - but how the hell with her husband earning well north of 100k too ?!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited January 5

    algarkirk said:

    Talking about scumbags....Joey Barton appears to be another that is having the social-media fuelled mid-life crisis...

    Addressing Aluko, he wrote on X: 'How is she even talking about Men's football. She can't even kick a ball properly. Your coverage of the game EFC last night, took it to a new low. Eni Aluko and Lucy Ward, the Fred and Rose West of football commentary.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12929489/Joey-Barton-attacks-ITVs-FA-Cup-round-punditry-team-sick-taunt-Eni-Aluko-commentator-Lucy-Ward-claims-coverage-reached-new-low.html

    I have a small smidge of sympathy with the arguments around womens footballers commentating on mens football. Until recently womens football was played in front of tiny crowds and frankly the standard was abysmal. There is no comparison in experience of female players with the mens premiership and international game, so if you are employing them on the basis of their experience, its wrong. If you are employing them for their knowledge of football and their love of the game, thats a different matter. In the same way I wouldn't expect male footballers to have much of a concept of womens football.

    But fundamentally, Barton is a dick
    His wider criticism is true, that in general the quality of commentary and analysis on Sky, TNT, BBC (male and female) is piss poor and they don't know very much about the tactics behind the modern game...and that there are people on the t'interweb that actually do know, but they never get an opportunity.

    Sky Cricket came to this realisation 5 years ago or so and out went Botham, Holding etc. Compare their lazy analysis where they didn't even know the players, let alone the tactics, versus an Eoin Morgan or Kumar Sangakkara.

    For the most part, football coverage is still stuck in the dark ages.
    Not in touch as much as I was, but I still get the impression that rugby union commentary is quite often done by people who know what they are talking about but have a complete inability to convey it simply enough to people who don't have a close knowledge.

    Football commentary, mostly, is as if a random member of public was doing it. On Radio Cumbria the commentary is a much loved, though not particularly informative art form, going back to the legendary and lamented Derek Lacey, a wonderful man who didn't always know the score or which side was which but was hugely loved.
    For the rugby, I thought when they have had Nigel Owens as part of expert panel that was a very good move, as so many decisions in rugby are very complicated, such that even active and recently retired players don't fully understand them. I believe he now does S4C commentary of rugby.
    It was an excellent move. Rugby refs are used to explaining their decisions, accurately and concisely - and to calling what can and can't be done on the field in real time. The move to punditry should be a natural one as long as they can judge when to intervene and when not to.
    As someone who attends rugby at Bath, I would love to have the ref describe his decisions to the crowd (as in American football).
    For fifteen years I refereed soccer at a decent amateur level. Football is a simple game. You can read the entire law book in an evening, and learn it in detail over a fornight. Rugby is vastly more complicated. I have nothing but admiration for Rugby referees, at all levels. Their grasp of the laws and skill in administering them is generally impressive.

    I wish I could be as complimentary about soccer refs, but mostly I find the criticisms widely applied to them as wholly justified.

    So why the difference? Mainly it is down to the organising bodies. The RFU seems to handle the difficult matter of refereeing in an exemplary fashion. The FA is a joke, perhaps more so within the game than with the public at large, which is saying something. Its European and World counterparts are, if anything, worse.

    Matter of culture, I suppose?
    Rubgy rules are not only very complicated, but every season they make significant changes to them.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,393

    algarkirk said:

    Talking about scumbags....Joey Barton appears to be another that is having the social-media fuelled mid-life crisis...

    Addressing Aluko, he wrote on X: 'How is she even talking about Men's football. She can't even kick a ball properly. Your coverage of the game EFC last night, took it to a new low. Eni Aluko and Lucy Ward, the Fred and Rose West of football commentary.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12929489/Joey-Barton-attacks-ITVs-FA-Cup-round-punditry-team-sick-taunt-Eni-Aluko-commentator-Lucy-Ward-claims-coverage-reached-new-low.html

    I have a small smidge of sympathy with the arguments around womens footballers commentating on mens football. Until recently womens football was played in front of tiny crowds and frankly the standard was abysmal. There is no comparison in experience of female players with the mens premiership and international game, so if you are employing them on the basis of their experience, its wrong. If you are employing them for their knowledge of football and their love of the game, thats a different matter. In the same way I wouldn't expect male footballers to have much of a concept of womens football.

    But fundamentally, Barton is a dick
    His wider criticism is true, that in general the quality of commentary and analysis on Sky, TNT, BBC (male and female) is piss poor and they don't know very much about the tactics behind the modern game...and that there are people on the t'interweb that actually do know, but they never get an opportunity.

    Sky Cricket came to this realisation 5 years ago or so and out went Botham, Holding etc. Compare their lazy analysis where they didn't even know the players, let alone the tactics, versus an Eoin Morgan or Kumar Sangakkara.

    For the most part, football coverage is still stuck in the dark ages.
    Not in touch as much as I was, but I still get the impression that rugby union commentary is quite often done by people who know what they are talking about but have a complete inability to convey it simply enough to people who don't have a close knowledge.

    Football commentary, mostly, is as if a random member of public was doing it. On Radio Cumbria the commentary is a much loved, though not particularly informative art form, going back to the legendary and lamented Derek Lacey, a wonderful man who didn't always know the score or which side was which but was hugely loved.
    For the rugby, I thought when they have had Nigel Owens as part of expert panel that was a very good move, as so many decisions in rugby are very complicated, such that even active and recently retired players don't fully understand them. I believe he now does S4C commentary of rugby.
    It was an excellent move. Rugby refs are used to explaining their decisions, accurately and concisely - and to calling what can and can't be done on the field in real time. The move to punditry should be a natural one as long as they can judge when to intervene and when not to.
    As someone who attends rugby at Bath, I would love to have the ref describe his decisions to the crowd (as in American football).
    For fifteen years I refereed soccer at a decent amateur level. Football is a simple game. You can read the entire law book in an evening, and learn it in detail over a fornight. Rugby is vastly more complicated. I have nothing but admiration for Rugby referees, at all levels. Their grasp of the laws and skill in administering them is generally impressive.

    I wish I could be as complimentary about soccer refs, but mostly I find the criticisms widely applied to them as wholly justified.

    So why the difference? Mainly it is down to the organising bodies. The RFU seems to handle the difficult matter of refereeing in an exemplary fashion. The FA is a joke, perhaps more so within the game than with the public at large, which is saying something. Its European and World counterparts are, if anything, worse.

    Matter of culture, I suppose?
    Maybe its me, having a long record of playing and watching, but I do not find rugby laws confusing. However I am constantly amazed by how many do. Its not that complicated. I doubt that their is any difference in the length of the laws of the two games. The harder bits seem to be around the tackle area, but that is a lot clearer this year with the idea of a player being 'tackled' being released by the tackling player.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,323
    SandraMc said:

    IanB2 said:

    We watched Mr Bates vs the Post Office yesterday. Even though I feel I know a bit about this from the press and @Cyclefree's headers, the series still had the power to shock.

    It was also the hot topic in the gym this morning. Someone suggested Alan Bates should be awarded an MBE for his efforts over 20 years to bring this scandal to justice.

    I mentioned that Paula Vennells got a CBE in 2019, her predecessor Alan Cook got a CBE in 2006. Cue general astonishment and disgust.

    He was offered one but refused it while Vennells still has hers.

    All this fuss about Davey and some letter he wrote back in 2010, when almost no-one knew anything about it, and there were the Tories giving her a job in the Cabinet Office and an honour in 2019 years after the whole story was as good as exposed, for those that wanted to see.
    It wasn't just "some letter he wrote" in Davey's case. When he left Government office, he took a consultancy with a legal firm that had represented the Post Office and had done its best to screw the staff's appeal.
    Sir Ed should do what Vennells and her lot never did. He should come clean.

    Everyone makes mistakes. Doubling down on them is inexcusable.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,239

    In an attempt to appeal to the masses, Rachel Reeves told Christopher Hope:

    “What makes me wince is when I look at my bank statement, and I find that the money coming in is increasingly short of the money going out.”

    https://order-order.com/2024/01/05/rachel-reeves-heading-into-the-red/

    I wish politicians wouldn't try this nonsense. Just be honest and say a lot of people are struggling, and if people push you say, yes I am personally in a very fortunate position.

    When you earn £350k a year, unless you are like Boris and have had 27 children by 10 different women, you aren't short every month (particularly if you live most weeks with ability to expense a fair chunk / have access to discounted food / drink).

    The number of people who live beyond their income - no matter what it is - is quite impressive.

    A friend, who works at a private bank, told me that the number of “rich” people who own a tiny percentage of some nice assets and have a stack of maxed out credit cards…
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,896
    SandraMc said:

    IanB2 said:

    We watched Mr Bates vs the Post Office yesterday. Even though I feel I know a bit about this from the press and @Cyclefree's headers, the series still had the power to shock.

    It was also the hot topic in the gym this morning. Someone suggested Alan Bates should be awarded an MBE for his efforts over 20 years to bring this scandal to justice.

    I mentioned that Paula Vennells got a CBE in 2019, her predecessor Alan Cook got a CBE in 2006. Cue general astonishment and disgust.

    He was offered one but refused it while Vennells still has hers.

    All this fuss about Davey and some letter he wrote back in 2010, when almost no-one knew anything about it, and there were the Tories giving her a job in the Cabinet Office and an honour in 2019 years after the whole story was as good as exposed, for those that wanted to see.
    It wasn't just "some letter he wrote" in Davey's case. When he left Government office, he took a consultancy with a legal firm that had represented the Post Office and had done its best to screw the staff's appeal.
    Did he know that at the time? Most of this has come out properly in recent years.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    One for Leon.

    This is a completely fake video of me. The AI (HeyGen) used 30 seconds of me talking to a webcam and 30 seconds of my voice, and now I have an avatar that I can make say anything. Don't trust your own eyes.

    Its not perfect, but a two minute recording would yield better results.

    https://twitter.com/emollick/status/1743146951749533897
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited January 5

    In an attempt to appeal to the masses, Rachel Reeves told Christopher Hope:

    “What makes me wince is when I look at my bank statement, and I find that the money coming in is increasingly short of the money going out.”

    https://order-order.com/2024/01/05/rachel-reeves-heading-into-the-red/

    I wish politicians wouldn't try this nonsense. Just be honest and say a lot of people are struggling, and if people push you say, yes I am personally in a very fortunate position.

    When you earn £350k a year, unless you are like Boris and have had 27 children by 10 different women, you aren't short every month (particularly if you live most weeks with ability to expense a fair chunk / have access to discounted food / drink).

    The number of people who live beyond their income - no matter what it is - is quite impressive.

    A friend, who works at a private bank, told me that the number of “rich” people who own a tiny percentage of some nice assets and have a stack of maxed out credit cards…
    Those who work in finance do seem to be particularly prone to this. The number of people I graduated with, were soon earning 6 figures (20+ years ago) but upon meeting up claimed poverty was quite amazing.

    However, Rachel Reeves doesn't fit the mould of those 20/30 somethings that are out on the town Fri, Sat, Sun, shovelling coke left, right and centre, etc etc etc.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,323

    algarkirk said:

    Talking about scumbags....Joey Barton appears to be another that is having the social-media fuelled mid-life crisis...

    Addressing Aluko, he wrote on X: 'How is she even talking about Men's football. She can't even kick a ball properly. Your coverage of the game EFC last night, took it to a new low. Eni Aluko and Lucy Ward, the Fred and Rose West of football commentary.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12929489/Joey-Barton-attacks-ITVs-FA-Cup-round-punditry-team-sick-taunt-Eni-Aluko-commentator-Lucy-Ward-claims-coverage-reached-new-low.html

    I have a small smidge of sympathy with the arguments around womens footballers commentating on mens football. Until recently womens football was played in front of tiny crowds and frankly the standard was abysmal. There is no comparison in experience of female players with the mens premiership and international game, so if you are employing them on the basis of their experience, its wrong. If you are employing them for their knowledge of football and their love of the game, thats a different matter. In the same way I wouldn't expect male footballers to have much of a concept of womens football.

    But fundamentally, Barton is a dick
    His wider criticism is true, that in general the quality of commentary and analysis on Sky, TNT, BBC (male and female) is piss poor and they don't know very much about the tactics behind the modern game...and that there are people on the t'interweb that actually do know, but they never get an opportunity.

    Sky Cricket came to this realisation 5 years ago or so and out went Botham, Holding etc. Compare their lazy analysis where they didn't even know the players, let alone the tactics, versus an Eoin Morgan or Kumar Sangakkara.

    For the most part, football coverage is still stuck in the dark ages.
    Not in touch as much as I was, but I still get the impression that rugby union commentary is quite often done by people who know what they are talking about but have a complete inability to convey it simply enough to people who don't have a close knowledge.

    Football commentary, mostly, is as if a random member of public was doing it. On Radio Cumbria the commentary is a much loved, though not particularly informative art form, going back to the legendary and lamented Derek Lacey, a wonderful man who didn't always know the score or which side was which but was hugely loved.
    For the rugby, I thought when they have had Nigel Owens as part of expert panel that was a very good move, as so many decisions in rugby are very complicated, such that even active and recently retired players don't fully understand them. I believe he now does S4C commentary of rugby.
    It was an excellent move. Rugby refs are used to explaining their decisions, accurately and concisely - and to calling what can and can't be done on the field in real time. The move to punditry should be a natural one as long as they can judge when to intervene and when not to.
    As someone who attends rugby at Bath, I would love to have the ref describe his decisions to the crowd (as in American football).
    For fifteen years I refereed soccer at a decent amateur level. Football is a simple game. You can read the entire law book in an evening, and learn it in detail over a fornight. Rugby is vastly more complicated. I have nothing but admiration for Rugby referees, at all levels. Their grasp of the laws and skill in administering them is generally impressive.

    I wish I could be as complimentary about soccer refs, but mostly I find the criticisms widely applied to them as wholly justified.

    So why the difference? Mainly it is down to the organising bodies. The RFU seems to handle the difficult matter of refereeing in an exemplary fashion. The FA is a joke, perhaps more so within the game than with the public at large, which is saying something. Its European and World counterparts are, if anything, worse.

    Matter of culture, I suppose?
    Rubgy rules are not only very complicated, but every season they make significant changes to them.
    In football, the Laws themselves change little, but the official interpretations fluctuate wildly, often to the detriment of the game.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited January 5

    algarkirk said:

    Talking about scumbags....Joey Barton appears to be another that is having the social-media fuelled mid-life crisis...

    Addressing Aluko, he wrote on X: 'How is she even talking about Men's football. She can't even kick a ball properly. Your coverage of the game EFC last night, took it to a new low. Eni Aluko and Lucy Ward, the Fred and Rose West of football commentary.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12929489/Joey-Barton-attacks-ITVs-FA-Cup-round-punditry-team-sick-taunt-Eni-Aluko-commentator-Lucy-Ward-claims-coverage-reached-new-low.html

    I have a small smidge of sympathy with the arguments around womens footballers commentating on mens football. Until recently womens football was played in front of tiny crowds and frankly the standard was abysmal. There is no comparison in experience of female players with the mens premiership and international game, so if you are employing them on the basis of their experience, its wrong. If you are employing them for their knowledge of football and their love of the game, thats a different matter. In the same way I wouldn't expect male footballers to have much of a concept of womens football.

    But fundamentally, Barton is a dick
    His wider criticism is true, that in general the quality of commentary and analysis on Sky, TNT, BBC (male and female) is piss poor and they don't know very much about the tactics behind the modern game...and that there are people on the t'interweb that actually do know, but they never get an opportunity.

    Sky Cricket came to this realisation 5 years ago or so and out went Botham, Holding etc. Compare their lazy analysis where they didn't even know the players, let alone the tactics, versus an Eoin Morgan or Kumar Sangakkara.

    For the most part, football coverage is still stuck in the dark ages.
    Not in touch as much as I was, but I still get the impression that rugby union commentary is quite often done by people who know what they are talking about but have a complete inability to convey it simply enough to people who don't have a close knowledge.

    Football commentary, mostly, is as if a random member of public was doing it. On Radio Cumbria the commentary is a much loved, though not particularly informative art form, going back to the legendary and lamented Derek Lacey, a wonderful man who didn't always know the score or which side was which but was hugely loved.
    For the rugby, I thought when they have had Nigel Owens as part of expert panel that was a very good move, as so many decisions in rugby are very complicated, such that even active and recently retired players don't fully understand them. I believe he now does S4C commentary of rugby.
    It was an excellent move. Rugby refs are used to explaining their decisions, accurately and concisely - and to calling what can and can't be done on the field in real time. The move to punditry should be a natural one as long as they can judge when to intervene and when not to.
    As someone who attends rugby at Bath, I would love to have the ref describe his decisions to the crowd (as in American football).
    For fifteen years I refereed soccer at a decent amateur level. Football is a simple game. You can read the entire law book in an evening, and learn it in detail over a fornight. Rugby is vastly more complicated. I have nothing but admiration for Rugby referees, at all levels. Their grasp of the laws and skill in administering them is generally impressive.

    I wish I could be as complimentary about soccer refs, but mostly I find the criticisms widely applied to them as wholly justified.

    So why the difference? Mainly it is down to the organising bodies. The RFU seems to handle the difficult matter of refereeing in an exemplary fashion. The FA is a joke, perhaps more so within the game than with the public at large, which is saying something. Its European and World counterparts are, if anything, worse.

    Matter of culture, I suppose?
    Rubgy rules are not only very complicated, but every season they make significant changes to them.
    In football, the Laws themselves change little, but the official interpretations fluctuate wildly, often to the detriment of the game.
    Well they do now also every year have referee meetings about the interpretations e.g. handball has changed quite significantly over the past few seasons. But rugby, rules around the breakdown, this seems to be something that is constantly changing.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    SandraMc said:

    IanB2 said:

    We watched Mr Bates vs the Post Office yesterday. Even though I feel I know a bit about this from the press and @Cyclefree's headers, the series still had the power to shock.

    It was also the hot topic in the gym this morning. Someone suggested Alan Bates should be awarded an MBE for his efforts over 20 years to bring this scandal to justice.

    I mentioned that Paula Vennells got a CBE in 2019, her predecessor Alan Cook got a CBE in 2006. Cue general astonishment and disgust.

    He was offered one but refused it while Vennells still has hers.

    All this fuss about Davey and some letter he wrote back in 2010, when almost no-one knew anything about it, and there were the Tories giving her a job in the Cabinet Office and an honour in 2019 years after the whole story was as good as exposed, for those that wanted to see.
    It wasn't just "some letter he wrote" in Davey's case. When he left Government office, he took a consultancy with a legal firm that had represented the Post Office and had done its best to screw the staff's appeal.
    Sir Ed should do what Vennells and her lot never did. He should come clean.

    Everyone makes mistakes. Doubling down on them is inexcusable.
    Yes, as someone fairly well disposed to the LibDems, I think this very disappointing indeed from him.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    SandraMc said:

    IanB2 said:

    We watched Mr Bates vs the Post Office yesterday. Even though I feel I know a bit about this from the press and @Cyclefree's headers, the series still had the power to shock.

    It was also the hot topic in the gym this morning. Someone suggested Alan Bates should be awarded an MBE for his efforts over 20 years to bring this scandal to justice.

    I mentioned that Paula Vennells got a CBE in 2019, her predecessor Alan Cook got a CBE in 2006. Cue general astonishment and disgust.

    He was offered one but refused it while Vennells still has hers.

    All this fuss about Davey and some letter he wrote back in 2010, when almost no-one knew anything about it, and there were the Tories giving her a job in the Cabinet Office and an honour in 2019 years after the whole story was as good as exposed, for those that wanted to see.
    It wasn't just "some letter he wrote" in Davey's case. When he left Government office, he took a consultancy with a legal firm that had represented the Post Office and had done its best to screw the staff's appeal.
    Did he know that at the time? Most of this has come out properly in recent years.
    Exactly. Those trying to project their opinions back to the earlier part of the scandal should consider why they did nothing at the time, if the facts of the matter were so widely appreciated. The televised, and now dramatised, BIS select committee hearing was way back in 2015. Yet so many people seem to be agitated about it only now? How credible is that.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,239

    SandraMc said:

    IanB2 said:

    We watched Mr Bates vs the Post Office yesterday. Even though I feel I know a bit about this from the press and @Cyclefree's headers, the series still had the power to shock.

    It was also the hot topic in the gym this morning. Someone suggested Alan Bates should be awarded an MBE for his efforts over 20 years to bring this scandal to justice.

    I mentioned that Paula Vennells got a CBE in 2019, her predecessor Alan Cook got a CBE in 2006. Cue general astonishment and disgust.

    He was offered one but refused it while Vennells still has hers.

    All this fuss about Davey and some letter he wrote back in 2010, when almost no-one knew anything about it, and there were the Tories giving her a job in the Cabinet Office and an honour in 2019 years after the whole story was as good as exposed, for those that wanted to see.
    It wasn't just "some letter he wrote" in Davey's case. When he left Government office, he took a consultancy with a legal firm that had represented the Post Office and had done its best to screw the staff's appeal.
    Did he know that at the time? Most of this has come out properly in recent years.
    The scandal was reported years ago.

    “Due diligence” perhaps?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494

    On topic, Mike is half-right and half-wrong.

    Yes, the public does understand that the PM isn't going to commit electoral suicide before he has to. On the other hand, the public does want an election now and calling for one - even if it's unlikely to happen - won't go down badly.

    Whether 'bottled it' is the right phrase to use I'm doubtful about. 'Frit', or some variant, might be better. But the gist is right.

    Isn’t there an argument the Tory strategists, who they pay lot of money to, have wargamed this, modelled this, and come to the conclusion it needs a cheerful, turned a corner, springlike election? Absolutely everything is screaming at us it’s May rather than gathering gloom of a recession hit autumn,, not least the timing of tax cuts and budget and using recent drop in inflation, and sensible avoiding of issues later in the year such as predicted surge in channel crossings, technical recession, business bankruptcies. Tax cuts in spring can actually increase inflation.

    Whilst telling us it’s an election from July onward yesterday, Sunak was specifically asked to rule out May and wouldn’t.
    Media and commentators pay too much attention to technical and arbitrary definitions of 'recessions' (which were only thought up in the first place to palm off ignorant journalists), and not enough to how people are feeling.

    Tory strategists can only go with a turned-the-corner election if people actually think things have turned a corner; not just in the economy but in, say, the NHS too. Not to mention that a Spring election didn't do much for John Major in 1997. Indeed, there's just as much chance that people look to Labour as the seasonal source of renewal.

    But in the end, PMs, given the choice between 'lose now' and 'lose later' will always opt for the latter, unless delaying further looks patently absurd.
    No. I still ain’t buying it.

    The expensive strategists must be providing a bundle of projections and modelling into the decision making, so we need to stop thinking it’s Rishi’s thoughts and feelings only. It’s professional results the strategists get their next paying gigs from. It’s Shareprice for them.

    Take just one piece of modelling as example. If the strategists and Rishi round table convince themselves boat crossings will increase this summer as modelling predicts it will, can they really schedule an election to take place after a summer of increased boat crossings? They can’t David, they really can’t.

    All this Rwanda palaver to build a front there’s a working policy stopping the boats, it would be blown out the water whether flights take off or not. It’s important realise getting the best possible result now is nothing to do with the issues where policy competes with Labour, best on economy, housing, NHS etc are battles long since lost - the Tories can save 50 seats or more in straight battle with Reform on double digits in polls after stealing Tory voters.

    Can the Tories schedule an election for the other side of a summer of increased boat crossings?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,872

    SandraMc said:

    IanB2 said:

    We watched Mr Bates vs the Post Office yesterday. Even though I feel I know a bit about this from the press and @Cyclefree's headers, the series still had the power to shock.

    It was also the hot topic in the gym this morning. Someone suggested Alan Bates should be awarded an MBE for his efforts over 20 years to bring this scandal to justice.

    I mentioned that Paula Vennells got a CBE in 2019, her predecessor Alan Cook got a CBE in 2006. Cue general astonishment and disgust.

    He was offered one but refused it while Vennells still has hers.

    All this fuss about Davey and some letter he wrote back in 2010, when almost no-one knew anything about it, and there were the Tories giving her a job in the Cabinet Office and an honour in 2019 years after the whole story was as good as exposed, for those that wanted to see.
    It wasn't just "some letter he wrote" in Davey's case. When he left Government office, he took a consultancy with a legal firm that had represented the Post Office and had done its best to screw the staff's appeal.
    Did he know that at the time? Most of this has come out properly in recent years.
    Even if Davey did not know at the time (and at the very least he knew a large group was taking legal action) he should perhaps have asked questions. We are plagued by politicians both ignorant and incurious.
  • PoulterPoulter Posts: 62

    In an attempt to appeal to the masses, Rachel Reeves told Christopher Hope:

    “What makes me wince is when I look at my bank statement, and I find that the money coming in is increasingly short of the money going out.”

    https://order-order.com/2024/01/05/rachel-reeves-heading-into-the-red/

    I wish politicians wouldn't try this nonsense. Just be honest and say a lot of people are struggling, and if people push you say, yes I am personally in a very fortunate position.

    When you earn £350k a year, unless you are like Boris and have had 27 children by 10 different women, you aren't short every month (particularly if you live most weeks with ability to expense a fair chunk / have access to discounted food / drink).

    Reeves doesn't, as far as I know, earn anything close to £350k a year. She'll get £87k as an MP. I don't think she gets anything as Shadow Chancellor, does she? She declared another £23k for writing in 2023. £110k is good, very good, but it's not £350k.
    You are correct, the £350k was donations.

    The point still stands. Her husband is a senior civil servant in the treasury, so their household income is several £100k a year. If they can't stay out of the red with that level of income, you would have to question her ability to run the nations accounts. In reality, she isn't a numpty, so I highly doubt that is the case, and so is leaning into the nonsense of I am just like you struggling to make ends meet.
    The nation's accounts are in the red.

    But you are right. Of course she is faking it. Time for leaders of the opposition to the opposition, also known as the government - Hunt, Cameron, Sunak - to call her out on it. "You're not really struggling, are you, Rachel? You're not as 'fortunate' as we are, but you're still rolling in it."
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978

    SandraMc said:

    IanB2 said:

    We watched Mr Bates vs the Post Office yesterday. Even though I feel I know a bit about this from the press and @Cyclefree's headers, the series still had the power to shock.

    It was also the hot topic in the gym this morning. Someone suggested Alan Bates should be awarded an MBE for his efforts over 20 years to bring this scandal to justice.

    I mentioned that Paula Vennells got a CBE in 2019, her predecessor Alan Cook got a CBE in 2006. Cue general astonishment and disgust.

    He was offered one but refused it while Vennells still has hers.

    All this fuss about Davey and some letter he wrote back in 2010, when almost no-one knew anything about it, and there were the Tories giving her a job in the Cabinet Office and an honour in 2019 years after the whole story was as good as exposed, for those that wanted to see.
    It wasn't just "some letter he wrote" in Davey's case. When he left Government office, he took a consultancy with a legal firm that had represented the Post Office and had done its best to screw the staff's appeal.
    Did he know that at the time? Most of this has come out properly in recent years.
    Even if Davey did not know at the time (and at the very least he knew a large group was taking legal action) he should perhaps have asked questions. We are plagued by politicians both ignorant, incompetent and incurious.
    Fixed for you...
This discussion has been closed.