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Parking the bus or “to the Arsenal one nil” – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,686
edited January 1 in General
imageParking the bus or “to the Arsenal one nil” – politicalbetting.com

Boxing day football is one of our many British Christmas traditions. The season tends to end much as at this halfway point, though rarely precisely, so quite the benchmark.

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    Arsenal are not playing today (Boxing Day) but host the mighty West Ham tomorrow.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,408
    edited December 2023
    Arsenal led the Premier League for most of last season but dropped crucial points in the spring and narrowly lost the title. Starmer will (or should) be aware of the danger.
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    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,906
    edited December 2023
    I would add that Arsenal are much less exciting to watch this year, with Arteta switching the team's emphasis to defence, with the excellent Saliba and Gabriel XL, rather than rely on goals from his forwards. The former can be sustained across a whole season, while Gabriel XS, Martinelli, Odegaard and Saka are vulnerable to fluctuations in form.

    What odds Arsenal for the title and Labour for a majority? Perhaps Arteta and Starmer have been sharing notes.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001

    Arsenal led the Premier League for most of last season but dropped crucial points in the spring and narrowly lost the title. Starmer will (or should) be aware of the danger.

    It all went wrong in Liverpool, when they gave up a two goal lead.
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    Good morning and Seasons Greetings, Foxy. Thank you for your thoughts.

    Another sporting cliche springs to mind - 'running down the clock'. This seems as appropriate to me for Starmer as 'parking the bus'. He has no need to do anything flamboyant or enterprising. Indeed, all that he has to do is wait and let the opposition expire quietly. Said opposition seems only too happy to do that. Indeed it regularly makes mistakes and contributes to its own misfortunes. There's no need for any initiatives from Starmer. All he needs to do is run down that clock....

    Or park the bus, if you prefer.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,679
    rcs1000 said:

    Arsenal led the Premier League for most of last season but dropped crucial points in the spring and narrowly lost the title. Starmer will (or should) be aware of the danger.

    It all went wrong in Liverpool, when they gave up a two goal lead.
    Though ground out a draw in the same match this year.

    I must admit to be not paying much attention to the Premier League this year, with my team in the next tier. For me the big game is away at Ipswich, who have had a brilliant first half of the season, and attack with flair.

    Leicester are leading the division with a style of football very similar to Manchester City, playing out from the back with a possession based style, and an inverted fullback. Lots of teams try to park the bus against us, particularly at The King Power Stadium. Our hiccup could be losing 4 first team players to the African Cup of Nations for a month.





  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631

    Arsenal led the Premier League for most of last season but dropped crucial points in the spring and narrowly lost the title. Starmer will (or should) be aware of the danger.

    That, though, is where Foxy's entertaining and perceptive analogy (clear even to a football ignoramus like me) breaks down.

    There are effectively only two major teams in British politics, and they are paying each other without a break. And one of those teams hasn't won a match all season.
    A football league is quite a different dynamic.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Arsenal led the Premier League for most of last season but dropped crucial points in the spring and narrowly lost the title. Starmer will (or should) be aware of the danger.

    It all went wrong in Liverpool, when they gave up a two goal lead.
    Though ground out a draw in the same match this year.

    I must admit to be not paying much attention to the Premier League this year, with my team in the next tier. For me the big game is away at Ipswich, who have had a brilliant first half of the season, and attack with flair.

    Leicester are leading the division with a style of football very similar to Manchester City, playing out from the back with a possession based style, and an inverted fullback. Lots of teams try to park the bus against us, particularly at The King Power Stadium. Our hiccup could be losing 4 first team players to the African Cup of Nations for a month.

    What's an inverted fullback ?

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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,031
    "Russia confirms damage to warship in Black Sea"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67821515

    Fair to say it was a big bang; in which case, it will be a tiny bit more than 'damage'.
    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1739516839196000764

    Rumours are that a ship hit was carrying weapons from Iran.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631
    edited December 2023
    Another consequential, and not widely recognised achievement of the Biden administration.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/25/biden-climate-agenda-hurdles-00126109
    When John Podesta arrived at the White House to speed up President Joe Biden’s clean energy agenda, the aging electric grid topped his priority list.

    Pulling down barriers to Biden’s far-reaching goals for combating climate threats was now the task of the former White House chief of staff. Right away, Podesta sat down with Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm. The two ran through a list of proposed high-voltage electric transmission projects critical to delivering wind and solar power to American cities and suburbs — as air conditioners run at full tilt and digital technology consumes expanding amounts of energy.

    One project stood out: SunZia Wind and Transmission, which would ship carbon-free electricity from the central desert of New Mexico to Arizona and Southern California.
    It had been in the works for 16 years.

    “Oh, my God,” Podesta blurted out. “We’ve gotten nowhere on that?”

    A year later, it’s finally under construction.


    Like the other projects on this list, SunZia had been stuck in yearslong spin cycles of local controversies and government reviews, challenged by critics ranging from birders to Native American tribes to the U.S. Army. Now, it was getting a prime spot on Podesta’s get-it-done list — an opening move in what White House officials call the largest investment in electric grid infrastructure in U.S. history...
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631
    In contrast, I present Trump's Christmas message.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4376797-trump-may-they-rot-in-hell-merry-christmas/
    ..“Included also are World Leaders, both good and bad, but none of which are as evil and ‘sick’ as the THUGS we have inside our Country who, with their Open Borders, INFLATION, Afghanistan Surrender, Green New Scam, High Taxes, No Energy Independence, Woke Military, Russia/Ukraine, Israel/Iran, All Electric Car Lunacy, and so much more, are looking to destroy our once great USA. MAY THEY ROT IN HELL. AGAIN, MERRY CHRISTMAS!” the former president concluded. ..
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    Nigelb said:

    Another consequential, and not widely recognised achievement of the Biden administration.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/25/biden-climate-agenda-hurdles-00126109
    When John Podesta arrived at the White House to speed up President Joe Biden’s clean energy agenda, the aging electric grid topped his priority list.

    Pulling down barriers to Biden’s far-reaching goals for combating climate threats was now the task of the former White House chief of staff. Right away, Podesta sat down with Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm. The two ran through a list of proposed high-voltage electric transmission projects critical to delivering wind and solar power to American cities and suburbs — as air conditioners run at full tilt and digital technology consumes expanding amounts of energy.

    One project stood out: SunZia Wind and Transmission, which would ship carbon-free electricity from the central desert of New Mexico to Arizona and Southern California.
    It had been in the works for 16 years.

    “Oh, my God,” Podesta blurted out. “We’ve gotten nowhere on that?”

    A year later, it’s finally under construction.


    Like the other projects on this list, SunZia had been stuck in yearslong spin cycles of local controversies and government reviews, challenged by critics ranging from birders to Native American tribes to the U.S. Army. Now, it was getting a prime spot on Podesta’s get-it-done list — an opening move in what White House officials call the largest investment in electric grid infrastructure in U.S. history...

    One of the things that I think is really under-appreciated is the extent to which wind and solar now make economic sense without subsidy.

    Now, people will say "oh yeah, but you have to build fossil fired power stations as backup", but the reality is that CCGTs are cheap from a capex and maintenance perspective; and it's the fuel that is expensive.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,679
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Arsenal led the Premier League for most of last season but dropped crucial points in the spring and narrowly lost the title. Starmer will (or should) be aware of the danger.

    It all went wrong in Liverpool, when they gave up a two goal lead.
    Though ground out a draw in the same match this year.

    I must admit to be not paying much attention to the Premier League this year, with my team in the next tier. For me the big game is away at Ipswich, who have had a brilliant first half of the season, and attack with flair.

    Leicester are leading the division with a style of football very similar to Manchester City, playing out from the back with a possession based style, and an inverted fullback. Lots of teams try to park the bus against us, particularly at The King Power Stadium. Our hiccup could be losing 4 first team players to the African Cup of Nations for a month.

    What's an inverted fullback ?

    Out of possession the team shape is 451, but in possession becomes a 325, with one of the fullbacks (for Leicester it is Ricardo) moving to form a double pivot in midfield. The other 2 midfielders support the attacking wingers and centreforward. It is a slightly lopsided formation as the right winger doesn't have a fullback to overlap with.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    Nigelb said:

    In contrast, I present Trump's Christmas message.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4376797-trump-may-they-rot-in-hell-merry-christmas/
    ..“Included also are World Leaders, both good and bad, but none of which are as evil and ‘sick’ as the THUGS we have inside our Country who, with their Open Borders, INFLATION, Afghanistan Surrender, Green New Scam, High Taxes, No Energy Independence, Woke Military, Russia/Ukraine, Israel/Iran, All Electric Car Lunacy, and so much more, are looking to destroy our once great USA. MAY THEY ROT IN HELL. AGAIN, MERRY CHRISTMAS!” the former president concluded. ..

    It's funny because generating power from solar and wind is the very definition of energy independence.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,679
    Nigelb said:

    Arsenal led the Premier League for most of last season but dropped crucial points in the spring and narrowly lost the title. Starmer will (or should) be aware of the danger.

    That, though, is where Foxy's entertaining and perceptive analogy (clear even to a football ignoramus like me) breaks down.

    There are effectively only two major teams in British politics, and they are paying each other without a break. And one of those teams hasn't won a match all season.
    A football league is quite a different dynamic.
    Yes, just a single game endlessly repeated. Parking the bus is a hard tactic to sustain, as requires great discipline and concentration. To do it a whole year is very challenging.

    There will be opportunities where gaffes occur or events happen unexpectedly in a campaign. Events like Blair being harangued by a patient outside a hospital, "that bigoted woman" or Corbyn's unexpected reception at a music festival igniting a spontaneous song from the crowd. It is impossible to plan everything.

    That said, the Labour plan is clearly heavily defensive.

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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,267
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Arsenal led the Premier League for most of last season but dropped crucial points in the spring and narrowly lost the title. Starmer will (or should) be aware of the danger.

    That, though, is where Foxy's entertaining and perceptive analogy (clear even to a football ignoramus like me) breaks down.

    There are effectively only two major teams in British politics, and they are paying each other without a break. And one of those teams hasn't won a match all season.
    A football league is quite a different dynamic.
    Yes, just a single game endlessly repeated. Parking the bus is a hard tactic to sustain, as requires great discipline and concentration. To do it a whole year is very challenging.

    There will be opportunities where gaffes occur or events happen unexpectedly in a campaign. Events like Blair being harangued by a patient outside a hospital, "that bigoted woman" or Corbyn's unexpected reception at a music festival igniting a spontaneous song from the crowd. It is impossible to plan everything.

    That said, the Labour plan is clearly heavily defensive.

    Johnson was good at parking the bus.

    Well, the pink bus.
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    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,356
    Belatedly, Merry Christmas one and all.
    At.keast some better news to counter all.the miserable stuff posted here.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/85e7094e-eb75-4cfe-8d7c-387905eb2f10?shareToken=05615c7057792d10d1277a2e8f58f75e
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,002
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Arsenal led the Premier League for most of last season but dropped crucial points in the spring and narrowly lost the title. Starmer will (or should) be aware of the danger.

    That, though, is where Foxy's entertaining and perceptive analogy (clear even to a football ignoramus like me) breaks down.

    There are effectively only two major teams in British politics, and they are paying each other without a break. And one of those teams hasn't won a match all season.
    A football league is quite a different dynamic.
    Yes, just a single game endlessly repeated. Parking the bus is a hard tactic to sustain, as requires great discipline and concentration. To do it a whole year is very challenging.

    There will be opportunities where gaffes occur or events happen unexpectedly in a campaign. Events like Blair being harangued by a patient outside a hospital, "that bigoted woman" or Corbyn's unexpected reception at a music festival igniting a spontaneous song from the crowd. It is impossible to plan everything.

    That said, the Labour plan is clearly heavily defensive.

    And Isobel Hardman, in Sunday’s Observer made the point that simply being against is not enough; people want to be enthused by something. Blair provided something different; so far Starmer hasn’t, except that he and his team are honest and capable.
    Is that really enough?

    And happy boxing day everyone! We had an excellent lunch at our local pub yesterday.
  • Options
    One thing we can say with absolute certainty that Sir Keir Starmer isn't as sleazy and corrupt as George Graham who received a worldwide ban.

    At least George Graham recovered from that ban by eventually managing the biggest club in North London.
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    Good morning, everyone.

    King Cole, Hardman always cam eacross as an intelligent commentator back when I watched This Week a thousand years ago.

    Not being enthused is fine for Starmer to win the election but it could mean support is crumblier than it was far Blair. Especially once in office and the question isn't "How do we spend all this lovely money?".
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001

    Belatedly, Merry Christmas one and all.
    At.keast some better news to counter all.the miserable stuff posted here.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/85e7094e-eb75-4cfe-8d7c-387905eb2f10?shareToken=05615c7057792d10d1277a2e8f58f75e

    I'm not sure I have any more faith in long term economic forecasts now than I had back in 2016.

    I am glad that the UK economy is performing adequately right now, but that shouldn't blind us to some of the challenges ahead.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,267

    One thing we can say with absolute certainty that Sir Keir Starmer isn't as sleazy and corrupt as George Graham who received a worldwide ban.

    At least George Graham recovered from that ban by eventually managing the biggest club in North London.

    I would never make that remark of a politician.

    Bitter experience would suggest we can never say such things with 'absolute certainty.'
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    ydoethur said:

    One thing we can say with absolute certainty that Sir Keir Starmer isn't as sleazy and corrupt as George Graham who received a worldwide ban.

    At least George Graham recovered from that ban by eventually managing the biggest club in North London.

    I would never make that remark of a politician.

    Bitter experience would suggest we can never say such things with 'absolute certainty.'
    He's an eminent lawyer and former DPP, I feel confident in my assertion.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,267
    rcs1000 said:

    Belatedly, Merry Christmas one and all.
    At.keast some better news to counter all.the miserable stuff posted here.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/85e7094e-eb75-4cfe-8d7c-387905eb2f10?shareToken=05615c7057792d10d1277a2e8f58f75e

    I'm not sure I have any more faith in long term economic forecasts now than I had back in 2016.

    I am glad that the UK economy is performing adequately right now, but that shouldn't blind us to some of the challenges ahead.
    What would you say is the main challenge right now?

    Personally, I would think it's the enormous amount of debt (both public and private) overhanging the economy.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,267

    ydoethur said:

    One thing we can say with absolute certainty that Sir Keir Starmer isn't as sleazy and corrupt as George Graham who received a worldwide ban.

    At least George Graham recovered from that ban by eventually managing the biggest club in North London.

    I would never make that remark of a politician.

    Bitter experience would suggest we can never say such things with 'absolute certainty.'
    He's an eminent lawyer and former DPP, I feel confident in my assertion. therefore have misgivings.
    FTFY :smile:

    By the way, did you watch Die Hard yesterday?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001

    Good morning, everyone.

    King Cole, Hardman always cam eacross as an intelligent commentator back when I watched This Week a thousand years ago.

    Not being enthused is fine for Starmer to win the election but it could mean support is crumblier than it was far Blair. Especially once in office and the question isn't "How do we spend all this lovely money?".

    I think this is right: Blair inherited a pretty perfect scenario. HMG's books were moving into surplus. The economy was expanding at a decent clip. Debt-to-GDP was at levels last seen prior to the First World War.

    By contrast, Starmer will inherit debt levels in excess of 100% of GDP, combined with serious demographic issues and a populous that wishes to be rid of austerity. (When "austerity" is the natural consequence of an ageing population squeezing government spending.)

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Belatedly, Merry Christmas one and all.
    At.keast some better news to counter all.the miserable stuff posted here.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/85e7094e-eb75-4cfe-8d7c-387905eb2f10?shareToken=05615c7057792d10d1277a2e8f58f75e

    I'm not sure I have any more faith in long term economic forecasts now than I had back in 2016.

    I am glad that the UK economy is performing adequately right now, but that shouldn't blind us to some of the challenges ahead.
    What would you say is the main challenge right now?

    Personally, I would think it's the enormous amount of debt (both public and private) overhanging the economy.
    I'm off to bed. :smile:
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,267
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Belatedly, Merry Christmas one and all.
    At.keast some better news to counter all.the miserable stuff posted here.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/85e7094e-eb75-4cfe-8d7c-387905eb2f10?shareToken=05615c7057792d10d1277a2e8f58f75e

    I'm not sure I have any more faith in long term economic forecasts now than I had back in 2016.

    I am glad that the UK economy is performing adequately right now, but that shouldn't blind us to some of the challenges ahead.
    What would you say is the main challenge right now?

    Personally, I would think it's the enormous amount of debt (both public and private) overhanging the economy.
    I'm off to bed. :smile:
    Is that a sign the economy is just fucked?
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    One thing we can say with absolute certainty that Sir Keir Starmer isn't as sleazy and corrupt as George Graham who received a worldwide ban.

    At least George Graham recovered from that ban by eventually managing the biggest club in North London.

    I would never make that remark of a politician.

    Bitter experience would suggest we can never say such things with 'absolute certainty.'
    He's an eminent lawyer and former DPP, I feel confident in my assertion. therefore have misgivings.
    FTFY :smile:

    By the way, did you watch Die Hard yesterday?
    I watched in on Christmas Eve.

    The only telly I watched yesterday was Doctor Who.

    Russell T. Davies + Ncuti Gatwa is the greatest double act since Osborne & Cameron.

    We are in for an awesome era of the Doctor.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    An excellent header Foxy. Entertaining and as good an analogy as you could have found. You perhaps missed the one opportunity for it failing indeed the one that did for Mourinho. His own supporters (United at the time) couldn't stand watching it a moment longer. They said his team had lost their 'vavavoom' and many jumped ship to the brighter and bushy tailed blue mob down the road and he was fired. The rest is history...
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    Mr. Eagles, until and unless the abomination that is The Timeless Children retcon is undone I'm not bothering returning to Doctor Who.
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    rcs1000 said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    King Cole, Hardman always cam eacross as an intelligent commentator back when I watched This Week a thousand years ago.

    Not being enthused is fine for Starmer to win the election but it could mean support is crumblier than it was far Blair. Especially once in office and the question isn't "How do we spend all this lovely money?".

    I think this is right: Blair inherited a pretty perfect scenario. HMG's books were moving into surplus. The economy was expanding at a decent clip. Debt-to-GDP was at levels last seen prior to the First World War.

    By contrast, Starmer will inherit debt levels in excess of 100% of GDP, combined with serious demographic issues and a populous that wishes to be rid of austerity. (When "austerity" is the natural consequence of an ageing population squeezing government spending.)

    While this is true, there is another way of looking at things.

    The levels of incompetence, mendacity and grift we have seen from the Tories over recent years mean that an incoming Labour government would have to be spectacularly awful to look worse than the current one. In the same way, such has been the decline in living standards and public services that it won’t take much for improvements to be seen and felt.

    There is also the matter of how the Tories might react to a defeat. As things stand, a swing back to the centre looks unlikely. A more realistic scenario is a shift even further to the right.

    The challenge for Labour may be less the governing than the getting to power in the first place. I broadly agree with the safety first strategy, though I would like to see more hope on offer. Starmer is no Blair. But, then, Sunak is no Major either.

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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898

    "Russia confirms damage to warship in Black Sea"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67821515

    Fair to say it was a big bang; in which case, it will be a tiny bit more than 'damage'.
    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1739516839196000764

    Rumours are that a ship hit was carrying weapons from Iran.

    Another Russian warship makes the wrong sort of big boom. Life gets a little better for Ukraine.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,791
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Arsenal led the Premier League for most of last season but dropped crucial points in the spring and narrowly lost the title. Starmer will (or should) be aware of the danger.

    It all went wrong in Liverpool, when they gave up a two goal lead.
    Though ground out a draw in the same match this year.

    I must admit to be not paying much attention to the Premier League this year, with my team in the next tier. For me the big game is away at Ipswich, who have had a brilliant first half of the season, and attack with flair.

    Leicester are leading the division with a style of football very similar to Manchester City, playing out from the back with a possession based style, and an inverted fullback. Lots of teams try to park the bus against us, particularly at The King Power Stadium. Our hiccup could be losing 4 first team players to the African Cup of Nations for a month.

    What's an inverted fullback ?

    Someone who sees the ball from the point of view of the eneny striker?
  • Options
    Excellent article @Foxy

    When the football season finishes in May Keir will have disappointment and triumph.

    Disappointment as his football team fall just short once again but...

    Triumph as his own team win their own title since 2005 however less clear of the opposition than expected
  • Options
    Roger said:

    An excellent header Foxy. Entertaining and as good an analogy as you could have found. You perhaps missed the one opportunity for it failing indeed the one that did for Mourinho. His own supporters (United at the time) couldn't stand watching it a moment longer. They said his team had lost their 'vavavoom' and many jumped ship to the brighter and bushy tailed blue mob down the road and he was fired. The rest is history...

    So Manchester United fans are a glory hunting sheep?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,284
    Nigelb said:

    Arsenal led the Premier League for most of last season but dropped crucial points in the spring and narrowly lost the title. Starmer will (or should) be aware of the danger.

    That, though, is where Foxy's entertaining and perceptive analogy (clear even to a football ignoramus like me) breaks down.

    There are effectively only two major teams in British politics, and they are paying each other without a break. And one of those teams hasn't won a match all season.
    A football league is quite a different dynamic.
    The related point is that during an election campaign there will be an expectation that Labour will set out its stall, and the whole of the media - in effect the crowd in the analogy - will be trying to pin Labour down and uncover what its intentions might be. Labour will need to have something to say, which in large part explains the reluctance to reveal its hand now. Yes, it could try and hide behind vague Blairite platitudes, but if we go into an election where the outcome looks foregone, then the only point of interest is what the expected winners will do afterwards, and the media pressure will be intense.
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    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,225
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Belatedly, Merry Christmas one and all.
    At.keast some better news to counter all.the miserable stuff posted here.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/85e7094e-eb75-4cfe-8d7c-387905eb2f10?shareToken=05615c7057792d10d1277a2e8f58f75e

    I'm not sure I have any more faith in long term economic forecasts now than I had back in 2016.

    I am glad that the UK economy is performing adequately right now, but that shouldn't blind us to some of the challenges ahead.
    What would you say is the main challenge right now?

    Personally, I would think it's the enormous amount of debt (both public and private) overhanging the economy.
    Debt and demographics are both serious problems for the UK. Although most European economies face similar challenges. The problem for the UK remains poor productivity and continued inadequate investment. Turning round these structural problems is the work of decades,not years.
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,641
    Happy Foxing day morning. Hope you’re all out in your kimonos.

    Excellent analogy in the header. The danger of parking the bus in actual football, of course, is that if executed well you allow the other team to do all the running and crown around your penalty while your own team get further and further back and have less and less possession. Labour don’t seem too troubled by this - they are defending like Italians, with an increasingly frustrated Tory party constantly trying new tactics and making weird substitutions.

    My preferred analogy would be limited overs cricket though. Put simply, the Tories were chasing an achievable target but have suffered a humiliating middle order batting collapse. Previous match winner Boris threw his wicket with a series of reckless shots, then much hyped Truss got out for a duck after looking totally bamboozled against spin. Now remaining batsman Rishi, usually an orthodox defensive bat, has to rotate the strike with rank tailenders, and has another 100 to get in 10 overs. Every time he tries a risky shot he’s in danger of getting himself out. All Starmer’s bowlers have to do is pitch line and length.
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    Great header - a nice and original way of thinking about our political outlook.
    I've been a latecomer to the delights of the beautiful game but now watch my son play every Sunday and it is the highlight of my week. Shutting down the game to defend a lead is something his U15 team hasn't quite mastered yet, but Starmer seems to be quite good at it, as @Foxy notes.
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    Nigelb said:

    In contrast, I present Trump's Christmas message.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4376797-trump-may-they-rot-in-hell-merry-christmas/
    ..“Included also are World Leaders, both good and bad, but none of which are as evil and ‘sick’ as the THUGS we have inside our Country who, with their Open Borders, INFLATION, Afghanistan Surrender, Green New Scam, High Taxes, No Energy Independence, Woke Military, Russia/Ukraine, Israel/Iran, All Electric Car Lunacy, and so much more, are looking to destroy our once great USA. MAY THEY ROT IN HELL. AGAIN, MERRY CHRISTMAS!” the former president concluded. ..

    From last time, here is Trump on the futility of Middle East wars.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiw0ILaXJf0
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,541
    Parking the bus should ensure that the Tories lose. The gulf between Tories losing and Labour winning is immense. Assuming about 8 seats for SF and speaker, the Tories lose if they fail to win 322 seats, 43 fewer than GE 2019. Labour need 120 extra seats to win.

    I think they will win if they can both park the bus and convey the sense that with the Tories the UK glass is half empty and emptying, and with Starmer the UK glass is half full and capable of filling. There are no facts in this, only psychology. Ask Blair. It is not a battle of facts but of minds.
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    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Arsenal led the Premier League for most of last season but dropped crucial points in the spring and narrowly lost the title. Starmer will (or should) be aware of the danger.

    That, though, is where Foxy's entertaining and perceptive analogy (clear even to a football ignoramus like me) breaks down.

    There are effectively only two major teams in British politics, and they are paying each other without a break. And one of those teams hasn't won a match all season.
    A football league is quite a different dynamic.
    Yes, just a single game endlessly repeated. Parking the bus is a hard tactic to sustain, as requires great discipline and concentration. To do it a whole year is very challenging.

    There will be opportunities where gaffes occur or events happen unexpectedly in a campaign. Events like Blair being harangued by a patient outside a hospital, "that bigoted woman" or Corbyn's unexpected reception at a music festival igniting a spontaneous song from the crowd. It is impossible to plan everything.

    That said, the Labour plan is clearly heavily defensive.

    And Isobel Hardman, in Sunday’s Observer made the point that simply being against is not enough; people want to be enthused by something. Blair provided something different; so far Starmer hasn’t, except that he and his team are honest and capable.
    Is that really enough?

    And happy boxing day everyone! We had an excellent lunch at our local pub yesterday.
    Being honest and capable represents a refreshing change and a unique offering. It might well be enough. But Labour will I think be offering a bit more than that come election day in early November.
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    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,541

    Great header - a nice and original way of thinking about our political outlook.
    I've been a latecomer to the delights of the beautiful game but now watch my son play every Sunday and it is the highlight of my week. Shutting down the game to defend a lead is something his U15 team hasn't quite mastered yet, but Starmer seems to be quite good at it, as @Foxy notes.

    The thing about football and GE 2024 is that you have no idea how good you are at defending a 1-0 lead until 90 mins + added time has actually ended. Until that moment you have no idea even if you think you have.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,267
    TimS said:

    Happy Foxing day morning. Hope you’re all out in your kimonos.

    You sound like a jolly 'un.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,267

    Nigelb said:

    In contrast, I present Trump's Christmas message.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4376797-trump-may-they-rot-in-hell-merry-christmas/
    ..“Included also are World Leaders, both good and bad, but none of which are as evil and ‘sick’ as the THUGS we have inside our Country who, with their Open Borders, INFLATION, Afghanistan Surrender, Green New Scam, High Taxes, No Energy Independence, Woke Military, Russia/Ukraine, Israel/Iran, All Electric Car Lunacy, and so much more, are looking to destroy our once great USA. MAY THEY ROT IN HELL. AGAIN, MERRY CHRISTMAS!” the former president concluded. ..

    From last time, here is Trump on the futility of Middle East wars.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiw0ILaXJf0
    He's more unhinged than a door that's been trampled by an elephant.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,641
    algarkirk said:

    Great header - a nice and original way of thinking about our political outlook.
    I've been a latecomer to the delights of the beautiful game but now watch my son play every Sunday and it is the highlight of my week. Shutting down the game to defend a lead is something his U15 team hasn't quite mastered yet, but Starmer seems to be quite good at it, as @Foxy notes.

    The thing about football and GE 2024 is that you have no idea how good you are at defending a 1-0 lead until 90 mins + added time has actually ended. Until that moment you have no idea even if you think you have.
    A bit easier if like Labour you’re leading 3-1.
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    The geopolitical challenges the West faces are far more serious than those of debt and demographics.

    It is not written in stone anywhere that our way of life is set to continue, forevermore.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,687
    Great header - love the football analogies, they seem really apt.
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    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,645
    edited December 2023


    Happy Boxing Day all. Some interesting history for y’all: government income and spending in 1951.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,679
    edited December 2023
    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Arsenal led the Premier League for most of last season but dropped crucial points in the spring and narrowly lost the title. Starmer will (or should) be aware of the danger.

    That, though, is where Foxy's entertaining and perceptive analogy (clear even to a football ignoramus like me) breaks down.

    There are effectively only two major teams in British politics, and they are paying each other without a break. And one of those teams hasn't won a match all season.
    A football league is quite a different dynamic.
    The related point is that during an election campaign there will be an expectation that Labour will set out its stall, and the whole of the media - in effect the crowd in the analogy - will be trying to pin Labour down and uncover what its intentions might be. Labour will need to have something to say, which in large part explains the reluctance to reveal its hand now. Yes, it could try and hide behind vague Blairite platitudes, but if we go into an election where the outcome looks foregone, then the only point of interest is what the expected winners will do afterwards, and the media pressure will be intense.
    Yes, and as @roger points out, negative tactics grind out wins, but are rarely crowd pleasing.

    Though as you remarked the other day, the skills required to be LOTO are quite different to being PM.

    I can't see that the Tory attack line of "the economy is shot, public services fit only for the knackers yard and no money left for anything" is much of a crowd pleaser either!

    The household is emerging from its slumbers, but I will drop by a bit later.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,311
    rcs1000 said:

    Arsenal led the Premier League for most of last season but dropped crucial points in the spring and narrowly lost the title. Starmer will (or should) be aware of the danger.

    It all went wrong in Liverpool, when they gave up a two goal lead.
    Arsenal always give up a two goal lead. There is no more worrying time for an arsenal fan than when they are two up in the 75th minute.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,311

    The geopolitical challenges the West faces are far more serious than those of debt and demographics.

    It is not written in stone anywhere that our way of life is set to continue, forevermore.

    Very good point. There is always on this board a lot of I want it to happen it will happen thinking.
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    MJWMJW Posts: 1,354
    Close. But I don't think the header is quite right in its analogy. The danger of the Graham and arguably late Mourinho style was, as is said, its risk aversion made the margin for error very small, because it's done from 0-0 at the start and at 1-0. It's also only rational if defence is by far your biggest strength or you're the inferior team (in politics we could point to Lab being ahead on every issue except defence to say that's not the case).

    Starmer's Labour is more like a team that are 2 or even 3 nil up (depending on your reading of the polls) in a Cup Final, have taken off their playmaker for a defensive midfielder, and are happy for the game to become dull and drift towards victory. They've taken their chances. Been the better team. But now rather than try and bang in a third or fourth and risk letting their opposition score, are playing it safe in the knowledge that unless something very strange happens or they somehow fall to bits, that will almost certainly be enough.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307
    rcs1000 said:

    Belatedly, Merry Christmas one and all.
    At.keast some better news to counter all.the miserable stuff posted here.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/85e7094e-eb75-4cfe-8d7c-387905eb2f10?shareToken=05615c7057792d10d1277a2e8f58f75e

    I'm not sure I have any more faith in long term economic forecasts now than I had back in 2016.

    I am glad that the UK economy is performing adequately right now, but that shouldn't blind us to some of the challenges ahead.
    I agree, when even short term predictions of less than a year prove both wildly inaccurate and subject to revision longer term forecasts are in the realms of mystic Meg. From what I have seen most of these forecasts are being driven by demographics. Germany's population is expected to shrink so its economy will do likewise whilst our population remains on a fairly upward path, driven by lots of young immigrants.

    Well, maybe. Alternatively, AI and the like will break the link between labour and growth quite dramatically, in which event it is very likely that the US digital giants will become even more powerful than they are already. The Sci-Fi I have read of such scenarios tends towards the dystopian, sadly.
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    Last year of the Tories is about to begin. Fuck them
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    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    In contrast, I present Trump's Christmas message.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4376797-trump-may-they-rot-in-hell-merry-christmas/
    ..“Included also are World Leaders, both good and bad, but none of which are as evil and ‘sick’ as the THUGS we have inside our Country who, with their Open Borders, INFLATION, Afghanistan Surrender, Green New Scam, High Taxes, No Energy Independence, Woke Military, Russia/Ukraine, Israel/Iran, All Electric Car Lunacy, and so much more, are looking to destroy our once great USA. MAY THEY ROT IN HELL. AGAIN, MERRY CHRISTMAS!” the former president concluded. ..

    From last time, here is Trump on the futility of Middle East wars.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiw0ILaXJf0
    He's more unhinged than a door that's been trampled by an elephant.
    But he is right when he calls the Iraq war the worst decision in America's history, based on a lie about WMD, turning Iraq into a breeding ground for terrorism, costing $2 trillion, and costing American soldiers their lives or health.

  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,641
    MJW said:

    Close. But I don't think the header is quite right in its analogy. The danger of the Graham and arguably late Mourinho style was, as is said, its risk aversion made the margin for error very small, because it's done from 0-0 at the start and at 1-0. It's also only rational if defence is by far your biggest strength or you're the inferior team (in politics we could point to Lab being ahead on every issue except defence to say that's not the case).

    Starmer's Labour is more like a team that are 2 or even 3 nil up (depending on your reading of the polls) in a Cup Final, have taken off their playmaker for a defensive midfielder, and are happy for the game to become dull and drift towards victory. They've taken their chances. Been the better team. But now rather than try and bang in a third or fourth and risk letting their opposition score, are playing it safe in the knowledge that unless something very strange happens or they somehow fall to bits, that will almost certainly be enough.

    I think 3-1 or 4-1 is the current score. The Tories started the first half in confident form against a struggling Labour and knocked in 1 after 10 minutes. Since the 30th minute it’s been all Labour.
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    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,225

    The geopolitical challenges the West faces are far more serious than those of debt and demographics.

    It is not written in stone anywhere that our way of life is set to continue, forevermore.

    Perhaps true, but the blue funk that the West is in at the moment is probably the biggest threat of all. In order to succeed we have to believe that success is possible. So giving in to "fear itself" is the most dangerous thing we could do. When one considers the rivals to the collective West- Russia, China, India etc. It is vlear that their problems are just as difficult, if not more so, as those that we face. If the Brits would stop whinging and start working, we could deal with a good chunk of the problems quite quickly.
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    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    In contrast, I present Trump's Christmas message.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4376797-trump-may-they-rot-in-hell-merry-christmas/
    ..“Included also are World Leaders, both good and bad, but none of which are as evil and ‘sick’ as the THUGS we have inside our Country who, with their Open Borders, INFLATION, Afghanistan Surrender, Green New Scam, High Taxes, No Energy Independence, Woke Military, Russia/Ukraine, Israel/Iran, All Electric Car Lunacy, and so much more, are looking to destroy our once great USA. MAY THEY ROT IN HELL. AGAIN, MERRY CHRISTMAS!” the former president concluded. ..

    From last time, here is Trump on the futility of Middle East wars.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiw0ILaXJf0
    He's more unhinged than a door that's been trampled by an elephant.
    But he is right when he calls the Iraq war the worst decision in America's history, based on a lie about WMD, turning Iraq into a breeding ground for terrorism, costing $2 trillion, and costing American soldiers their lives or health.

    Worse than slavery?

    Worse than Dredd Scott?

    Don't be silly, its not even remotely in the top 10.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,641

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    In contrast, I present Trump's Christmas message.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4376797-trump-may-they-rot-in-hell-merry-christmas/
    ..“Included also are World Leaders, both good and bad, but none of which are as evil and ‘sick’ as the THUGS we have inside our Country who, with their Open Borders, INFLATION, Afghanistan Surrender, Green New Scam, High Taxes, No Energy Independence, Woke Military, Russia/Ukraine, Israel/Iran, All Electric Car Lunacy, and so much more, are looking to destroy our once great USA. MAY THEY ROT IN HELL. AGAIN, MERRY CHRISTMAS!” the former president concluded. ..

    From last time, here is Trump on the futility of Middle East wars.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiw0ILaXJf0
    He's more unhinged than a door that's been trampled by an elephant.
    But he is right when he calls the Iraq war the worst decision in America's history, based on a lie about WMD, turning Iraq into a breeding ground for terrorism, costing $2 trillion, and costing American soldiers their lives or health.

    The worst decision in American history was surely the Declaration of Independence?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307

    Great header - a nice and original way of thinking about our political outlook.
    I've been a latecomer to the delights of the beautiful game but now watch my son play every Sunday and it is the highlight of my week. Shutting down the game to defend a lead is something his U15 team hasn't quite mastered yet, but Starmer seems to be quite good at it, as @Foxy notes.

    Starmer may well be but, as @Foxy entertainingly points out, parking the bus requires discipline and a clear sense of formation. I am not sure that I see the shadow cabinet outside Starmer and Reeves quite that way. But we shall see. Own goals by the Tories, such as that idiotic "joke" by the HS, will help relieve the pressure.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,679
    MJW said:

    Close. But I don't think the header is quite right in its analogy. The danger of the Graham and arguably late Mourinho style was, as is said, its risk aversion made the margin for error very small, because it's done from 0-0 at the start and at 1-0. It's also only rational if defence is by far your biggest strength or you're the inferior team (in politics we could point to Lab being ahead on every issue except defence to say that's not the case).

    Starmer's Labour is more like a team that are 2 or even 3 nil up (depending on your reading of the polls) in a Cup Final, have taken off their playmaker for a defensive midfielder, and are happy for the game to become dull and drift towards victory. They've taken their chances. Been the better team. But now rather than try and bang in a third or fourth and risk letting their opposition score, are playing it safe in the knowledge that unless something very strange happens or they somehow fall to bits, that will almost certainly be enough.

    Yes, and at home games in Leicester I have become very used to watching visiting teams parking the bus. It is difficult to sustain, and why Leicester scores late goals while the visitors concede, and why we are top. Nearly all our games have been single goal victories.

    Tonight's game at Ipswich should be a more open game, as they attack well, but Leicester are tight at the back, and play a possession based style. I am really looking forward to it.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,687
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Belatedly, Merry Christmas one and all.
    At.keast some better news to counter all.the miserable stuff posted here.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/85e7094e-eb75-4cfe-8d7c-387905eb2f10?shareToken=05615c7057792d10d1277a2e8f58f75e

    I'm not sure I have any more faith in long term economic forecasts now than I had back in 2016.

    I am glad that the UK economy is performing adequately right now, but that shouldn't blind us to some of the challenges ahead.
    What would you say is the main challenge right now?

    Personally, I would think it's the enormous amount of debt (both public and private) overhanging the economy.
    Are high levels of private debt simply a reflection of high wealth inequality?

    Presumably for every £1 of private debt there is a £1 of credit owned by somebody?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,267

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Belatedly, Merry Christmas one and all.
    At.keast some better news to counter all.the miserable stuff posted here.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/85e7094e-eb75-4cfe-8d7c-387905eb2f10?shareToken=05615c7057792d10d1277a2e8f58f75e

    I'm not sure I have any more faith in long term economic forecasts now than I had back in 2016.

    I am glad that the UK economy is performing adequately right now, but that shouldn't blind us to some of the challenges ahead.
    What would you say is the main challenge right now?

    Personally, I would think it's the enormous amount of debt (both public and private) overhanging the economy.
    Are high levels of private debt simply a reflection of high wealth inequality?

    Presumably for every £1 of private debt there is a £1 of credit owned by somebody?
    Depends who it's owed to.
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    kamskikamski Posts: 4,255
    rcs1000 said:

    Belatedly, Merry Christmas one and all.
    At.keast some better news to counter all.the miserable stuff posted here.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/85e7094e-eb75-4cfe-8d7c-387905eb2f10?shareToken=05615c7057792d10d1277a2e8f58f75e

    I'm not sure I have any more faith in long term economic forecasts now than I had back in 2016.

    I am glad that the UK economy is performing adequately right now, but that shouldn't blind us to some of the challenges ahead.
    Not sure if the German and French economies doing badly is 'good news' for the UK, though it may help reconcile some to Brexit.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307
    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Arsenal led the Premier League for most of last season but dropped crucial points in the spring and narrowly lost the title. Starmer will (or should) be aware of the danger.

    It all went wrong in Liverpool, when they gave up a two goal lead.
    Arsenal always give up a two goal lead. There is no more worrying time for an arsenal fan than when they are two up in the 75th minute.
    Two goals, in the same match?? What on earth do they have to complain about? When your highest scorer is the ever willing Scott McTominay with 6, dreams of two goals seem to fade into a happier past.
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    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,726
    edited December 2023

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Belatedly, Merry Christmas one and all.
    At.keast some better news to counter all.the miserable stuff posted here.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/85e7094e-eb75-4cfe-8d7c-387905eb2f10?shareToken=05615c7057792d10d1277a2e8f58f75e

    I'm not sure I have any more faith in long term economic forecasts now than I had back in 2016.

    I am glad that the UK economy is performing adequately right now, but that shouldn't blind us to some of the challenges ahead.
    What would you say is the main challenge right now?

    Personally, I would think it's the enormous amount of debt (both public and private) overhanging the economy.
    Are high levels of private debt simply a reflection of high wealth inequality?

    Presumably for every £1 of private debt there is a £1 of credit owned by somebody?
    Not really on a macroeconomic scale, no, since our debt in the richer developed world is net largely owned by considerably poorer per capita countries like China.

    Though Communist China absolutely has massive wealth inequalities that completely dwarf the capitalist West (even America).
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,641
    Cicero said:

    The geopolitical challenges the West faces are far more serious than those of debt and demographics.

    It is not written in stone anywhere that our way of life is set to continue, forevermore.

    Perhaps true, but the blue funk that the West is in at the moment is probably the biggest threat of all. In order to succeed we have to believe that success is possible. So giving in to "fear itself" is the most dangerous thing we could do. When one considers the rivals to the collective West- Russia, China, India etc. It is vlear that their problems are just as difficult, if not more so, as those that we face. If the Brits would stop whinging and start working, we could deal with a good chunk of the problems quite quickly.
    The geopolitical challenges are themselves part of the same thing, driven by demographics - the relative demographic growth of other major blocs (for now), and the demographic stagnation of most of the West. Debt is just a second order symptom of demographics. All underpinned by the global geographical challenges of biodiversity loss and climate change.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,687



    Happy Boxing Day all. Some interesting history for y’all: government income and spending in 1951.

    Link?
  • Options

    Mr. Eagles, until and unless the abomination that is The Timeless Children retcon is undone I'm not bothering returning to Doctor Who.

    It was 'partially' undone in the Giggle. Or at least, if you take a certain line by the Toymaker seriously, you were given a way out.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307
    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Belatedly, Merry Christmas one and all.
    At.keast some better news to counter all.the miserable stuff posted here.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/85e7094e-eb75-4cfe-8d7c-387905eb2f10?shareToken=05615c7057792d10d1277a2e8f58f75e

    I'm not sure I have any more faith in long term economic forecasts now than I had back in 2016.

    I am glad that the UK economy is performing adequately right now, but that shouldn't blind us to some of the challenges ahead.
    Not sure if the German and French economies doing badly is 'good news' for the UK, though it may help reconcile some to Brexit.
    You are, of course, correct. The relative decline of the European economy will be a drag on our own growth. We need to develop new markets for our products and services.
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    DavidL said:

    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Belatedly, Merry Christmas one and all.
    At.keast some better news to counter all.the miserable stuff posted here.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/85e7094e-eb75-4cfe-8d7c-387905eb2f10?shareToken=05615c7057792d10d1277a2e8f58f75e

    I'm not sure I have any more faith in long term economic forecasts now than I had back in 2016.

    I am glad that the UK economy is performing adequately right now, but that shouldn't blind us to some of the challenges ahead.
    Not sure if the German and French economies doing badly is 'good news' for the UK, though it may help reconcile some to Brexit.
    You are, of course, correct. The relative decline of the European economy will be a drag on our own growth. We need to develop new markets for our products and services.
    Which has been an issue for decades and was precisely why we were right to leave the sclerotic European Union.

    kamski puts the cart before the horse in thinking that Brexiteers are glad to see Europe failing, Europe failing is disappointing and bad for Britain but is not new, did not begin after 2016 and is why Brexit was a good idea not vice-versa.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,946
    Cicero said:

    The geopolitical challenges the West faces are far more serious than those of debt and demographics.

    It is not written in stone anywhere that our way of life is set to continue, forevermore.

    Perhaps true, but the blue funk that the West is in at the moment is probably the biggest threat of all. In order to succeed we have to believe that success is possible. So giving in to "fear itself" is the most dangerous thing we could do. When one considers the rivals to the collective West- Russia, China, India etc. It is vlear that their problems are just as difficult, if not more so, as those that we face. If the Brits would stop whinging and start working, we could deal with a good chunk of the problems quite quickly.
    One of the problems at the moment, AFAIC, is that small minorities of highly motivated actors can stifle progress, and hence make belief in it very difficult.

    Hence, 'activists' blocking roads, introducing meddlesome LTNs, blocking planning applications on often the flimsiest objections, trying to overturn the referendum on EU membership etc etc etc. As the economy of the West has developed - for the good - beyond the dreams of our forefathers, the public sphere seems in my lifetime to have become almost irredeemably restrictive.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,687
    Mortimer said:

    Cicero said:

    The geopolitical challenges the West faces are far more serious than those of debt and demographics.

    It is not written in stone anywhere that our way of life is set to continue, forevermore.

    Perhaps true, but the blue funk that the West is in at the moment is probably the biggest threat of all. In order to succeed we have to believe that success is possible. So giving in to "fear itself" is the most dangerous thing we could do. When one considers the rivals to the collective West- Russia, China, India etc. It is vlear that their problems are just as difficult, if not more so, as those that we face. If the Brits would stop whinging and start working, we could deal with a good chunk of the problems quite quickly.
    One of the problems at the moment, AFAIC, is that small minorities of highly motivated actors can stifle progress, and hence make belief in it very difficult.

    Hence, 'activists' blocking roads, introducing meddlesome LTNs, blocking planning applications on often the flimsiest objections, trying to overturn the referendum on EU membership etc etc etc. As the economy of the West has developed - for the good - beyond the dreams of our forefathers, the public sphere seems in my lifetime to have become almost irredeemably restrictive.
    You forgot voter ID
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    Mr. Eagles, until and unless the abomination that is The Timeless Children retcon is undone I'm not bothering returning to Doctor Who.

    It was 'partially' undone in the Giggle. Or at least, if you take a certain line by the Toymaker seriously, you were given a way out.
    Well that's alright then!

    I fear the biregeneration may set off Mr Dancer.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,267

    Mortimer said:

    Cicero said:

    The geopolitical challenges the West faces are far more serious than those of debt and demographics.

    It is not written in stone anywhere that our way of life is set to continue, forevermore.

    Perhaps true, but the blue funk that the West is in at the moment is probably the biggest threat of all. In order to succeed we have to believe that success is possible. So giving in to "fear itself" is the most dangerous thing we could do. When one considers the rivals to the collective West- Russia, China, India etc. It is vlear that their problems are just as difficult, if not more so, as those that we face. If the Brits would stop whinging and start working, we could deal with a good chunk of the problems quite quickly.
    One of the problems at the moment, AFAIC, is that small minorities of highly motivated actors can stifle progress, and hence make belief in it very difficult.

    Hence, 'activists' blocking roads, introducing meddlesome LTNs, blocking planning applications on often the flimsiest objections, trying to overturn the referendum on EU membership etc etc etc. As the economy of the West has developed - for the good - beyond the dreams of our forefathers, the public sphere seems in my lifetime to have become almost irredeemably restrictive.
    You forgot voter ID
    That would be an embuggerance under these silly new rules.
  • Options
    Mr. Flagg, hmm, I'd not heard that.

    Although 'partially' is not sufficient given the woeful retcon.

    Mr. Eagles, from what I've seen, that was utterly stupid. Why they don't want the new Doctor to be the real one rather than a secondary, ancillary version to Tennantv2's actual Doctor is perplexing.
  • Options
    TresTres Posts: 2,229
    Mortimer said:

    Cicero said:

    The geopolitical challenges the West faces are far more serious than those of debt and demographics.

    It is not written in stone anywhere that our way of life is set to continue, forevermore.

    Perhaps true, but the blue funk that the West is in at the moment is probably the biggest threat of all. In order to succeed we have to believe that success is possible. So giving in to "fear itself" is the most dangerous thing we could do. When one considers the rivals to the collective West- Russia, China, India etc. It is vlear that their problems are just as difficult, if not more so, as those that we face. If the Brits would stop whinging and start working, we could deal with a good chunk of the problems quite quickly.
    One of the problems at the moment, AFAIC, is that small minorities of highly motivated actors can stifle progress, and hence make belief in it very difficult.

    Hence, 'activists' blocking roads, introducing meddlesome LTNs, blocking planning applications on often the flimsiest objections, trying to overturn the referendum on EU membership etc etc etc. As the economy of the West has developed - for the good - beyond the dreams of our forefathers, the public sphere seems in my lifetime to have become almost irredeemably restrictive.
    Round here the disruption is by anti-ulez activists clogging up town centres with protests, attacking street cameras and TfL vehicles.
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,543
    An entertaining analogy in the header, which works quite well.

    I'd only add that the Tory team has several players already on a yellow card, with one player (Cleverly) only saved from a red card by the intervention of Xmas. Labour's team, by contrast, is pretty disciplined these days.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,641

    DavidL said:

    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Belatedly, Merry Christmas one and all.
    At.keast some better news to counter all.the miserable stuff posted here.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/85e7094e-eb75-4cfe-8d7c-387905eb2f10?shareToken=05615c7057792d10d1277a2e8f58f75e

    I'm not sure I have any more faith in long term economic forecasts now than I had back in 2016.

    I am glad that the UK economy is performing adequately right now, but that shouldn't blind us to some of the challenges ahead.
    Not sure if the German and French economies doing badly is 'good news' for the UK, though it may help reconcile some to Brexit.
    You are, of course, correct. The relative decline of the European economy will be a drag on our own growth. We need to develop new markets for our products and services.
    Which has been an issue for decades and was precisely why we were right to leave the sclerotic European Union.

    kamski puts the cart before the horse in thinking that Brexiteers are glad to see Europe failing, Europe failing is disappointing and bad for Britain but is not new, did not begin after 2016 and is why Brexit was a good idea not vice-versa.
    As several EU countries with much more successful deepwater export industries than us demonstrate, membership was no bar to successful exploitation of non-EU markets. In fact in some cases it was a net benefit because it enabled integrated cross-border supply chains while retaining EU origin. Indeed as UK services trade with countries like the US and Singapore also demonstrate.

    The zero sum approach to EU or non EU never made sense, anymore than Texas being part of the US inhibits its trade with international partners.

    The incipient “sclerosis” suffered by some EU members is the same sclerosis suffered by the UK, by Japan in a major way, by most of Latin America and the whole CIS, and in due course expected in Korea, then China. It’s the sclerosis of ageing populations.
  • Options

    Mr. Flagg, hmm, I'd not heard that.

    Although 'partially' is not sufficient given the woeful retcon.

    Mr. Eagles, from what I've seen, that was utterly stupid. Why they don't want the new Doctor to be the real one rather than a secondary, ancillary version to Tennantv2's actual Doctor is perplexing.

    Disney is now co-producing on Doctor Who and there's a plan for a Whoniverse.

    The biregeneration led to this awesome tweet from Mrs Tennant.




    https://twitter.com/georgiaEtennant/status/1735337984986099992
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,906
    edited December 2023
    Mortimer said:

    Cicero said:

    The geopolitical challenges the West faces are far more serious than those of debt and demographics.

    It is not written in stone anywhere that our way of life is set to continue, forevermore.

    Perhaps true, but the blue funk that the West is in at the moment is probably the biggest threat of all. In order to succeed we have to believe that success is possible. So giving in to "fear itself" is the most dangerous thing we could do. When one considers the rivals to the collective West- Russia, China, India etc. It is vlear that their problems are just as difficult, if not more so, as those that we face. If the Brits would stop whinging and start working, we could deal with a good chunk of the problems quite quickly.
    One of the problems at the moment, AFAIC, is that small minorities of highly motivated actors can stifle progress, and hence make belief in it very difficult.

    Hence, 'activists' blocking roads, introducing meddlesome LTNs, blocking planning applications on often the flimsiest objections, trying to overturn the referendum on EU membership etc etc etc. As the economy of the West has developed - for the good - beyond the dreams of our forefathers, the public sphere seems in my lifetime to have become almost irredeemably restrictive.
    Depends on what you consider progress.

    I'm not sure a package of abandoning our primary economic relationship with Europe, contributing to catastrophic climate change, destroying our natural environment and making our towns and cities unpleasant to walk around will advance the prospects of the British people.

    But you do you.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,356

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    One thing we can say with absolute certainty that Sir Keir Starmer isn't as sleazy and corrupt as George Graham who received a worldwide ban.

    At least George Graham recovered from that ban by eventually managing the biggest club in North London.

    I would never make that remark of a politician.

    Bitter experience would suggest we can never say such things with 'absolute certainty.'
    He's an eminent lawyer and former DPP, I feel confident in my assertion. therefore have misgivings.
    FTFY :smile:

    By the way, did you watch Die Hard yesterday?
    I watched in on Christmas Eve.

    The only telly I watched yesterday was Doctor Who.

    Russell T. Davies + Ncuti Gatwa is the greatest double act since Osborne & Cameron.

    We are in for an awesome era of the Doctor.
    The only telly we watched was the 3.00 from the King on I player at 8pm! I spent the day at my mother's care home. So sad, the chef cooked the full works for the residents but few bothered with much of it That's part of old age with a lack of appetite.
  • Options
    Mortimer said:

    Cicero said:

    The geopolitical challenges the West faces are far more serious than those of debt and demographics.

    It is not written in stone anywhere that our way of life is set to continue, forevermore.

    Perhaps true, but the blue funk that the West is in at the moment is probably the biggest threat of all. In order to succeed we have to believe that success is possible. So giving in to "fear itself" is the most dangerous thing we could do. When one considers the rivals to the collective West- Russia, China, India etc. It is vlear that their problems are just as difficult, if not more so, as those that we face. If the Brits would stop whinging and start working, we could deal with a good chunk of the problems quite quickly.
    One of the problems at the moment, AFAIC, is that small minorities of highly motivated actors can stifle progress, and hence make belief in it very difficult.

    Hence, 'activists' blocking roads, introducing meddlesome LTNs, blocking planning applications on often the flimsiest objections, trying to overturn the referendum on EU membership etc etc etc. As the economy of the West has developed - for the good - beyond the dreams of our forefathers, the public sphere seems in my lifetime to have become almost irredeemably restrictive.
    That's because a gordian knot of public regulations and laws have been passed over the last 50 years that now make it, procedurally, almost impossible to get anything done and endless grounds for appeal.

    Intelligent politicians would apply themselves to understanding the tangled web we've weaved and whether it's still fit for purpose, but it's far easier to grandstand with new laws rather than do a lot of hard work no-one might notice and, even if they do, long after they've left office.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,429
    Nigelb said:

    In contrast, I present Trump's Christmas message.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4376797-trump-may-they-rot-in-hell-merry-christmas/
    ..“Included also are World Leaders, both good and bad, but none of which are as evil and ‘sick’ as the THUGS we have inside our Country who, with their Open Borders, INFLATION, Afghanistan Surrender, Green New Scam, High Taxes, No Energy Independence, Woke Military, Russia/Ukraine, Israel/Iran, All Electric Car Lunacy, and so much more, are looking to destroy our once great USA. MAY THEY ROT IN HELL. AGAIN, MERRY CHRISTMAS!” the former president concluded. ..

    The Woke Trans Illegal Alien AIs are everywhere
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,906
    Tres said:

    Mortimer said:

    Cicero said:

    The geopolitical challenges the West faces are far more serious than those of debt and demographics.

    It is not written in stone anywhere that our way of life is set to continue, forevermore.

    Perhaps true, but the blue funk that the West is in at the moment is probably the biggest threat of all. In order to succeed we have to believe that success is possible. So giving in to "fear itself" is the most dangerous thing we could do. When one considers the rivals to the collective West- Russia, China, India etc. It is vlear that their problems are just as difficult, if not more so, as those that we face. If the Brits would stop whinging and start working, we could deal with a good chunk of the problems quite quickly.
    One of the problems at the moment, AFAIC, is that small minorities of highly motivated actors can stifle progress, and hence make belief in it very difficult.

    Hence, 'activists' blocking roads, introducing meddlesome LTNs, blocking planning applications on often the flimsiest objections, trying to overturn the referendum on EU membership etc etc etc. As the economy of the West has developed - for the good - beyond the dreams of our forefathers, the public sphere seems in my lifetime to have become almost irredeemably restrictive.
    Round here the disruption is by anti-ulez activists clogging up town centres with protests, attacking street cameras and TfL vehicles.
    Literally setting bombs off and getting arrested by counter-terror police.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-67754598
  • Options
    TresTres Posts: 2,229

    Mortimer said:

    Cicero said:

    The geopolitical challenges the West faces are far more serious than those of debt and demographics.

    It is not written in stone anywhere that our way of life is set to continue, forevermore.

    Perhaps true, but the blue funk that the West is in at the moment is probably the biggest threat of all. In order to succeed we have to believe that success is possible. So giving in to "fear itself" is the most dangerous thing we could do. When one considers the rivals to the collective West- Russia, China, India etc. It is vlear that their problems are just as difficult, if not more so, as those that we face. If the Brits would stop whinging and start working, we could deal with a good chunk of the problems quite quickly.
    One of the problems at the moment, AFAIC, is that small minorities of highly motivated actors can stifle progress, and hence make belief in it very difficult.

    Hence, 'activists' blocking roads, introducing meddlesome LTNs, blocking planning applications on often the flimsiest objections, trying to overturn the referendum on EU membership etc etc etc. As the economy of the West has developed - for the good - beyond the dreams of our forefathers, the public sphere seems in my lifetime to have become almost irredeemably restrictive.
    That's because a gordian knot of public regulations and laws have been passed over the last 50 years that now make it, procedurally, almost impossible to get anything done and endless grounds for appeal.

    Intelligent politicians would apply themselves to understanding the tangled web we've weaved and whether it's still fit for purpose, but it's far easier to grandstand with new laws rather than do a lot of hard work no-one might notice and, even if they do, long after they've left office.
    The various post-war green belts absolutely need reforming for the 21st century but the electorate will treat like a leper anyone who even proposes it.
  • Options
    TimS said:

    DavidL said:

    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Belatedly, Merry Christmas one and all.
    At.keast some better news to counter all.the miserable stuff posted here.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/85e7094e-eb75-4cfe-8d7c-387905eb2f10?shareToken=05615c7057792d10d1277a2e8f58f75e

    I'm not sure I have any more faith in long term economic forecasts now than I had back in 2016.

    I am glad that the UK economy is performing adequately right now, but that shouldn't blind us to some of the challenges ahead.
    Not sure if the German and French economies doing badly is 'good news' for the UK, though it may help reconcile some to Brexit.
    You are, of course, correct. The relative decline of the European economy will be a drag on our own growth. We need to develop new markets for our products and services.
    Which has been an issue for decades and was precisely why we were right to leave the sclerotic European Union.

    kamski puts the cart before the horse in thinking that Brexiteers are glad to see Europe failing, Europe failing is disappointing and bad for Britain but is not new, did not begin after 2016 and is why Brexit was a good idea not vice-versa.
    As several EU countries with much more successful deepwater export industries than us demonstrate, membership was no bar to successful exploitation of non-EU markets. In fact in some cases it was a net benefit because it enabled integrated cross-border supply chains while retaining EU origin. Indeed as UK services trade with countries like the US and Singapore also demonstrate.

    The zero sum approach to EU or non EU never made sense, anymore than Texas being part of the US inhibits its trade with international partners.

    The incipient “sclerosis” suffered by some EU members is the same sclerosis suffered by the UK, by Japan in a major way, by most of Latin America and the whole CIS, and in due course expected in Korea, then China. It’s the sclerosis of ageing populations.
    Which are these successful countries in your eyes?

    Since 1993 (the founding of the modern EU) all major EU countries have floundered, not just Britain.

    Its not just Britain but Germany, France and all other major EU countries since 1993 have done worse than non-EU developed nations - with Japan being the notable non-EU exception.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,627
    Nice header Dr F.

    Many Labourites might prefer us to be more like The Toon under Kevin Keegan. But just remember that we won nothing.
  • Options

    Mr. Flagg, hmm, I'd not heard that.

    Although 'partially' is not sufficient given the woeful retcon.

    Mr. Eagles, from what I've seen, that was utterly stupid. Why they don't want the new Doctor to be the real one rather than a secondary, ancillary version to Tennantv2's actual Doctor is perplexing.

    RTD is a friend of Chris Chibnall, so a full retcon of the Timeless Child was never going to be on the cards during his second tenure. If it's going to be fully and completely retconned by a future showrunner it's going to be someone who isn't on Chibnall's Christmas card list and doesn't care about pissing him off.
    In respect to the bi-generation, I kind of got the sense that Gatwa's Doctor 'follows' on from Tennant's Fourteenth Doctor and that Fourteen will ultimately become Fifteen at some point. The whole plotline about the Doctor being knackered and needing a rest doesn't make sense otherwise.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,541

    Mortimer said:

    Cicero said:

    The geopolitical challenges the West faces are far more serious than those of debt and demographics.

    It is not written in stone anywhere that our way of life is set to continue, forevermore.

    Perhaps true, but the blue funk that the West is in at the moment is probably the biggest threat of all. In order to succeed we have to believe that success is possible. So giving in to "fear itself" is the most dangerous thing we could do. When one considers the rivals to the collective West- Russia, China, India etc. It is vlear that their problems are just as difficult, if not more so, as those that we face. If the Brits would stop whinging and start working, we could deal with a good chunk of the problems quite quickly.
    One of the problems at the moment, AFAIC, is that small minorities of highly motivated actors can stifle progress, and hence make belief in it very difficult.

    Hence, 'activists' blocking roads, introducing meddlesome LTNs, blocking planning applications on often the flimsiest objections, trying to overturn the referendum on EU membership etc etc etc. As the economy of the West has developed - for the good - beyond the dreams of our forefathers, the public sphere seems in my lifetime to have become almost irredeemably restrictive.
    That's because a gordian knot of public regulations and laws have been passed over the last 50 years that now make it, procedurally, almost impossible to get anything done and endless grounds for appeal.

    Intelligent politicians would apply themselves to understanding the tangled web we've weaved and whether it's still fit for purpose, but it's far easier to grandstand with new laws rather than do a lot of hard work no-one might notice and, even if they do, long after they've left office.
    Spot on. So that we now have the spectacle of government trying to get parliament to legislate to designate and alter unknown facts about the future (Rwanda 'is' a safe country) in order to evade its own laws. Pathetically, it may even believe it can work. To unwind it will be an effortless matter for the courts, not least because of the 800 years of laws government are trying to ignore.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,983

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    One thing we can say with absolute certainty that Sir Keir Starmer isn't as sleazy and corrupt as George Graham who received a worldwide ban.

    At least George Graham recovered from that ban by eventually managing the biggest club in North London.

    I would never make that remark of a politician.

    Bitter experience would suggest we can never say such things with 'absolute certainty.'
    He's an eminent lawyer and former DPP, I feel confident in my assertion. therefore have misgivings.
    FTFY :smile:

    By the way, did you watch Die Hard yesterday?
    I watched in on Christmas Eve.

    The only telly I watched yesterday was Doctor Who.

    Russell T. Davies + Ncuti Gatwa is the greatest double act since Osborne & Cameron.

    We are in for an awesome era of the Doctor.
    The only telly we watched was the 3.00 from the King on I player at 8pm! I spent the day at my mother's care home. So sad, the chef cooked the full works for the residents but few bothered with much of it That's part of old age with a lack of appetite.
    Got to be the worst day for a cook in an OAP home. Because you know some residents will be insistent on everything being cooked (as that's how they've always done it) but as you say few people will actually eat much of it..
  • Options

    Last year of the Tories is about to begin. Fuck them

    Its 1945. Will all be over at the beginning of May
    Eabhal said:

    Tres said:

    Mortimer said:

    Cicero said:

    The geopolitical challenges the West faces are far more serious than those of debt and demographics.

    It is not written in stone anywhere that our way of life is set to continue, forevermore.

    Perhaps true, but the blue funk that the West is in at the moment is probably the biggest threat of all. In order to succeed we have to believe that success is possible. So giving in to "fear itself" is the most dangerous thing we could do. When one considers the rivals to the collective West- Russia, China, India etc. It is vlear that their problems are just as difficult, if not more so, as those that we face. If the Brits would stop whinging and start working, we could deal with a good chunk of the problems quite quickly.
    One of the problems at the moment, AFAIC, is that small minorities of highly motivated actors can stifle progress, and hence make belief in it very difficult.

    Hence, 'activists' blocking roads, introducing meddlesome LTNs, blocking planning applications on often the flimsiest objections, trying to overturn the referendum on EU membership etc etc etc. As the economy of the West has developed - for the good - beyond the dreams of our forefathers, the public sphere seems in my lifetime to have become almost irredeemably restrictive.
    Round here the disruption is by anti-ulez activists clogging up town centres with protests, attacking street cameras and TfL vehicles.
    Literally setting bombs off and getting arrested by counter-terror police.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-67754598
    Something is wrong here. PB experts Very Strongly insisted that the SHapp ULEZ expansion would hit young nurses and the poor who would now need to pay £20k a year to drive their old car (every example of which given was actually ULEZ compliant).

    And yet here we are with the polis arresting "a 60-year-old man in Sidcup and a 61-year-old man in Horsham, West Sussex, earlier on Monday." The kind of angry weaponised ignorance and stupidity Brexiteer with a classic car that I and several others pointed out would be the only outraged voices on a policy which is largely universally popular.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,284
    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    Great header - a nice and original way of thinking about our political outlook.
    I've been a latecomer to the delights of the beautiful game but now watch my son play every Sunday and it is the highlight of my week. Shutting down the game to defend a lead is something his U15 team hasn't quite mastered yet, but Starmer seems to be quite good at it, as @Foxy notes.

    The thing about football and GE 2024 is that you have no idea how good you are at defending a 1-0 lead until 90 mins + added time has actually ended. Until that moment you have no idea even if you think you have.
    A bit easier if like Labour you’re leading 3-1.
    If the Tories managed to sneak one back, I must have missed it…
  • Options
    algarkirk said:

    Mortimer said:

    Cicero said:

    The geopolitical challenges the West faces are far more serious than those of debt and demographics.

    It is not written in stone anywhere that our way of life is set to continue, forevermore.

    Perhaps true, but the blue funk that the West is in at the moment is probably the biggest threat of all. In order to succeed we have to believe that success is possible. So giving in to "fear itself" is the most dangerous thing we could do. When one considers the rivals to the collective West- Russia, China, India etc. It is vlear that their problems are just as difficult, if not more so, as those that we face. If the Brits would stop whinging and start working, we could deal with a good chunk of the problems quite quickly.
    One of the problems at the moment, AFAIC, is that small minorities of highly motivated actors can stifle progress, and hence make belief in it very difficult.

    Hence, 'activists' blocking roads, introducing meddlesome LTNs, blocking planning applications on often the flimsiest objections, trying to overturn the referendum on EU membership etc etc etc. As the economy of the West has developed - for the good - beyond the dreams of our forefathers, the public sphere seems in my lifetime to have become almost irredeemably restrictive.
    That's because a gordian knot of public regulations and laws have been passed over the last 50 years that now make it, procedurally, almost impossible to get anything done and endless grounds for appeal.

    Intelligent politicians would apply themselves to understanding the tangled web we've weaved and whether it's still fit for purpose, but it's far easier to grandstand with new laws rather than do a lot of hard work no-one might notice and, even if they do, long after they've left office.
    Spot on. So that we now have the spectacle of government trying to get parliament to legislate to designate and alter unknown facts about the future (Rwanda 'is' a safe country) in order to evade its own laws. Pathetically, it may even believe it can work. To unwind it will be an effortless matter for the courts, not least because of the 800 years of laws government are trying to ignore.
    My mind boggles at the mental gymnastics needed to toe the Tory line. We has to have Brexit for Sovereignty, but then have had posters say that parliament shouldn't have been sovereign after the 2017 election, and now that British laws should be disapplied.

    For all that they foam on about principles, in practice there are non. They want to be free, to do what they want to do. What that is keeps changing and how dare anyone point to the basis of the British constitution - laws, conventions, the courts, international treaties etc - and say that this is what Brexit sovereignty is.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,429

    Last year of the Tories is about to begin. Fuck them

    Its 1945. Will all be over at the beginning of May
    Eabhal said:

    Tres said:

    Mortimer said:

    Cicero said:

    The geopolitical challenges the West faces are far more serious than those of debt and demographics.

    It is not written in stone anywhere that our way of life is set to continue, forevermore.

    Perhaps true, but the blue funk that the West is in at the moment is probably the biggest threat of all. In order to succeed we have to believe that success is possible. So giving in to "fear itself" is the most dangerous thing we could do. When one considers the rivals to the collective West- Russia, China, India etc. It is vlear that their problems are just as difficult, if not more so, as those that we face. If the Brits would stop whinging and start working, we could deal with a good chunk of the problems quite quickly.
    One of the problems at the moment, AFAIC, is that small minorities of highly motivated actors can stifle progress, and hence make belief in it very difficult.

    Hence, 'activists' blocking roads, introducing meddlesome LTNs, blocking planning applications on often the flimsiest objections, trying to overturn the referendum on EU membership etc etc etc. As the economy of the West has developed - for the good - beyond the dreams of our forefathers, the public sphere seems in my lifetime to have become almost irredeemably restrictive.
    Round here the disruption is by anti-ulez activists clogging up town centres with protests, attacking street cameras and TfL vehicles.
    Literally setting bombs off and getting arrested by counter-terror police.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-67754598
    Something is wrong here. PB experts Very Strongly insisted that the SHapp ULEZ expansion would hit young nurses and the poor who would now need to pay £20k a year to drive their old car (every example of which given was actually ULEZ compliant).

    And yet here we are with the polis arresting "a 60-year-old man in Sidcup and a 61-year-old man in Horsham, West Sussex, earlier on Monday." The kind of angry weaponised ignorance and stupidity Brexiteer with a classic car that I and several others pointed out would be the only outraged voices on a policy which is largely universally popular.
    For some reason I recall the bombing of a petrol station in Germany over the Shell Brent Spar. The claims about the disposal of the Brent Spar were lies. As was admitted by Greenpeace later. But they had “made an issue”, so all good.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,627
    IanB2 said:

    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    Great header - a nice and original way of thinking about our political outlook.
    I've been a latecomer to the delights of the beautiful game but now watch my son play every Sunday and it is the highlight of my week. Shutting down the game to defend a lead is something his U15 team hasn't quite mastered yet, but Starmer seems to be quite good at it, as @Foxy notes.

    The thing about football and GE 2024 is that you have no idea how good you are at defending a 1-0 lead until 90 mins + added time has actually ended. Until that moment you have no idea even if you think you have.
    A bit easier if like Labour you’re leading 3-1.
    If the Tories managed to sneak one back, I must have missed it…
    The Tories got an early goal (the Hartlepool by-election with the inflatable Bozo), but ever since then their game has fallen apart.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,906

    Last year of the Tories is about to begin. Fuck them

    Its 1945. Will all be over at the beginning of May
    Eabhal said:

    Tres said:

    Mortimer said:

    Cicero said:

    The geopolitical challenges the West faces are far more serious than those of debt and demographics.

    It is not written in stone anywhere that our way of life is set to continue, forevermore.

    Perhaps true, but the blue funk that the West is in at the moment is probably the biggest threat of all. In order to succeed we have to believe that success is possible. So giving in to "fear itself" is the most dangerous thing we could do. When one considers the rivals to the collective West- Russia, China, India etc. It is vlear that their problems are just as difficult, if not more so, as those that we face. If the Brits would stop whinging and start working, we could deal with a good chunk of the problems quite quickly.
    One of the problems at the moment, AFAIC, is that small minorities of highly motivated actors can stifle progress, and hence make belief in it very difficult.

    Hence, 'activists' blocking roads, introducing meddlesome LTNs, blocking planning applications on often the flimsiest objections, trying to overturn the referendum on EU membership etc etc etc. As the economy of the West has developed - for the good - beyond the dreams of our forefathers, the public sphere seems in my lifetime to have become almost irredeemably restrictive.
    Round here the disruption is by anti-ulez activists clogging up town centres with protests, attacking street cameras and TfL vehicles.
    Literally setting bombs off and getting arrested by counter-terror police.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-67754598
    Something is wrong here. PB experts Very Strongly insisted that the SHapp ULEZ expansion would hit young nurses and the poor who would now need to pay £20k a year to drive their old car (every example of which given was actually ULEZ compliant).

    And yet here we are with the polis arresting "a 60-year-old man in Sidcup and a 61-year-old man in Horsham, West Sussex, earlier on Monday." The kind of angry weaponised ignorance and stupidity Brexiteer with a classic car that I and several others pointed out would be the only outraged voices on a policy which is largely universally popular.
    Given that a couple of Just Stop Oil protestors were sentenced to three years in prison, I presume at least 10 years for these two.
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