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It’s hard to argue with punters about a LAB majority – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Will something like this come to the UK?

    https://x.com/realchrisrufo/status/1735026560015720632

    Oklahoma @GovStitt has signed an executive order abolishing the DEI bureaucracy in all public universities.

    image

    No, as it would require repeal of a number of equality laws.

    Once you have these laws there needs to be a monitoring bureau to produce figures to demonstrate that an organisation is meeting the law.

    Change the name if it offends you, but someone in HR needs to take the responsibility on.

    Ours is very good at organising public health campaigns to engage underserved communities, which often have particular health needs.
    Eventually, they will be repealed. It will start in America; as ever, we shall lag 5 years behind
    Leon launches campaign for bigotry and discrimination.

    BRACE
    The sad thing is that, like H&S, real equality work is incredibly valuable.

    The people who use it as performative dance to build an empire of bullshit, should be blindfolded, and left in a building full of open elevator shafts, exposed wiring and angry leopards.

    Without HiViz
    But harsh on the leopards, that.
    Have they run out of supporters of the Face Eating Leopards party to eat, face first?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,728
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Will something like this come to the UK?

    https://x.com/realchrisrufo/status/1735026560015720632

    Oklahoma @GovStitt has signed an executive order abolishing the DEI bureaucracy in all public universities.

    image

    No, as it would require repeal of a number of equality laws.

    Once you have these laws there needs to be a monitoring bureau to produce figures to demonstrate that an organisation is meeting the law.

    Change the name if it offends you, but someone in HR needs to take the responsibility on.

    Ours is very good at organising public health campaigns to engage underserved communities, which often have particular health needs.
    Eventually, they will be repealed. It will start in America; as ever, we shall lag 5 years behind
    Leon launches campaign for bigotry and discrimination.

    BRACE
    The sad thing is that, like H&S, real equality work is incredibly valuable.

    The people who use it as performative dance to build an empire of bullshit, should be blindfolded, and left in a building full of open elevator shafts, exposed wiring and angry leopards.

    Without HiViz
    But harsh on the leopards, that.
    HiViz for the leopards? Everyone knows that HiViz is just like the scabbard of Excalibur. You can’t be injured while wearing it.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,131
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak will fly to Rome this weekend to address a political gathering hosted by the Italian prime minister Giorgia Meloni, joining a line-up of speakers who include Elon Musk and Santiago Abascal, the head of Spain’s hard-right Vox party.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rishi-sunak-italy-rome-elon-musk-giorgia-meloni-5k37cs3lc

    Is that a bad thing?
    It’s a good thing. The right is finally getting organised
    Because that always ends well. Begun, the culture wars have...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8buh5A70loA
  • Options
    Eabhal said:

    I think we need to take a closer look at Scotland. In a very crude analysis, the age profile of constituencies in England and Wales explains around 40% of voting patterns in the 2019 General Election, with older voters more likely to vote Conservative.

    However in Scotland the relationship is much weaker, which is what you'd expect given the presence of the SNP. What's interesting is that the SCon vote appears to be more depressed than the SLab vote. In some places the SCon vote is what you would expect (Banff and Buchan), but that's rare.

    That could be explained by a combination of tactical voting, Tartan Tories in the SNP, a particular Scottish antipathy to Johnson, or simply that Scotland is more left-wing than E&W.

    The risk for Labour is that Unionist voters in Scotland doesn't see the SNP as much of a threat anymore and revert back to the SCons, that Sunak is more attractive than Johnson for these types of voters, and that the Tartan Tory segment of the SNP is more likely to abandon them rather than Sturgeonites (with the former having half the value of the latter in SNP/Labour marginals). Our assessment of each of these dynamics in Scotland has a disproportionate weight on the result of the GE.

    It will be fascinating to participate in! Here in Banff and Buchan our MP puts out green leaflets which say you have to vote for him or you get the SNP. He can't really talk positively about things like farming and fishing as those communities aren't happy with the Brexit settlement.

    I anticipate the SNP leaflet will be the same in reverse. Vote for us or you get the Tory and Westminster bosses you around.

    Question - do the "tartan Tory" SNP voters have different priorities to shire Tories in southern England? Everything is as broken up here as it is down there. Is a vote for the Tories more acceptable because they can pretend everything broken is the SNP's fault and not the Tories? When in reality its both?
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,568

    IanB2 said:

    A stunning sunrise

    One here, too. Only one concern; red sky in the morning; shepherds, warning!
    The sky over to the south east is a sort of reddish to light purple colour!
    The forecast is looking good for the biggest meteor show of the year tonight, better after midnight
  • Options

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Will something like this come to the UK?

    https://x.com/realchrisrufo/status/1735026560015720632

    Oklahoma @GovStitt has signed an executive order abolishing the DEI bureaucracy in all public universities.

    image

    No, as it would require repeal of a number of equality laws.

    Once you have these laws there needs to be a monitoring bureau to produce figures to demonstrate that an organisation is meeting the law.

    Change the name if it offends you, but someone in HR needs to take the responsibility on.

    Ours is very good at organising public health campaigns to engage underserved communities, which often have particular health needs.
    Eventually, they will be repealed. It will start in America; as ever, we shall lag 5 years behind
    Leon launches campaign for bigotry and discrimination.

    BRACE
    The sad thing is that, like H&S, real equality work is incredibly valuable.

    The people who use it as performative dance to build an empire of bullshit, should be blindfolded, and left in a building full of open elevator shafts, exposed wiring and angry leopards.

    Without HiViz
    Trouble is that almost anything can be used as a performative dance to build an empire of bullshit.

    Woke can, but so can anti woke.

    See Kemi Badenoch.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,728

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Will something like this come to the UK?

    https://x.com/realchrisrufo/status/1735026560015720632

    Oklahoma @GovStitt has signed an executive order abolishing the DEI bureaucracy in all public universities.

    image

    No, as it would require repeal of a number of equality laws.

    Once you have these laws there needs to be a monitoring bureau to produce figures to demonstrate that an organisation is meeting the law.

    Change the name if it offends you, but someone in HR needs to take the responsibility on.

    Ours is very good at organising public health campaigns to engage underserved communities, which often have particular health needs.
    Eventually, they will be repealed. It will start in America; as ever, we shall lag 5 years behind
    Leon launches campaign for bigotry and discrimination.

    BRACE
    The sad thing is that, like H&S, real equality work is incredibly valuable.

    The people who use it as performative dance to build an empire of bullshit, should be blindfolded, and left in a building full of open elevator shafts, exposed wiring and angry leopards.

    Without HiViz
    Trouble is that almost anything can be used as a performative dance to build an empire of bullshit.

    Woke can, but so can anti woke.

    See Kemi Badenoch.
    Indeed. Must Finish Header…
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,057

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Will something like this come to the UK?

    https://x.com/realchrisrufo/status/1735026560015720632

    Oklahoma @GovStitt has signed an executive order abolishing the DEI bureaucracy in all public universities.

    image

    No, as it would require repeal of a number of equality laws.

    Once you have these laws there needs to be a monitoring bureau to produce figures to demonstrate that an organisation is meeting the law.

    Change the name if it offends you, but someone in HR needs to take the responsibility on.

    Ours is very good at organising public health campaigns to engage underserved communities, which often have particular health needs.
    Eventually, they will be repealed. It will start in America; as ever, we shall lag 5 years behind
    Leon launches campaign for bigotry and discrimination.

    BRACE
    The sad thing is that, like H&S, real equality work is incredibly valuable.

    The people who use it as performative dance to build an empire of bullshit, should be blindfolded, and left in a building full of open elevator shafts, exposed wiring and angry leopards.

    Without HiViz
    As Foxy says, any competent HR dept and overall management have to monitor things to check they're not breaching the laws. The logical implication is that anyone demanding the abolition of equality work is necessarily demanding the abolition of the discrimination legislation. Whether they realise it or not is another question. .

  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,728

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Will something like this come to the UK?

    https://x.com/realchrisrufo/status/1735026560015720632

    Oklahoma @GovStitt has signed an executive order abolishing the DEI bureaucracy in all public universities.

    image

    No, as it would require repeal of a number of equality laws.

    Once you have these laws there needs to be a monitoring bureau to produce figures to demonstrate that an organisation is meeting the law.

    Change the name if it offends you, but someone in HR needs to take the responsibility on.

    Ours is very good at organising public health campaigns to engage underserved communities, which often have particular health needs.
    Eventually, they will be repealed. It will start in America; as ever, we shall lag 5 years behind
    Leon launches campaign for bigotry and discrimination.

    BRACE
    The sad thing is that, like H&S, real equality work is incredibly valuable.

    The people who use it as performative dance to build an empire of bullshit, should be blindfolded, and left in a building full of open elevator shafts, exposed wiring and angry leopards.

    Without HiViz
    But harsh on the leopards, that.
    Have they run out of supporters of the Face Eating Leopards party to eat, face first?
    I was just thinking that - in any event, varying diet for animals is a good thing, generally.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,481

    Eabhal said:

    I think we need to take a closer look at Scotland. In a very crude analysis, the age profile of constituencies in England and Wales explains around 40% of voting patterns in the 2019 General Election, with older voters more likely to vote Conservative.

    However in Scotland the relationship is much weaker, which is what you'd expect given the presence of the SNP. What's interesting is that the SCon vote appears to be more depressed than the SLab vote. In some places the SCon vote is what you would expect (Banff and Buchan), but that's rare.

    That could be explained by a combination of tactical voting, Tartan Tories in the SNP, a particular Scottish antipathy to Johnson, or simply that Scotland is more left-wing than E&W.

    The risk for Labour is that Unionist voters in Scotland doesn't see the SNP as much of a threat anymore and revert back to the SCons, that Sunak is more attractive than Johnson for these types of voters, and that the Tartan Tory segment of the SNP is more likely to abandon them rather than Sturgeonites (with the former having half the value of the latter in SNP/Labour marginals). Our assessment of each of these dynamics in Scotland has a disproportionate weight on the result of the GE.

    It will be fascinating to participate in! Here in Banff and Buchan our MP puts out green leaflets which say you have to vote for him or you get the SNP. He can't really talk positively about things like farming and fishing as those communities aren't happy with the Brexit settlement.

    I anticipate the SNP leaflet will be the same in reverse. Vote for us or you get the Tory and Westminster bosses you around.

    Question - do the "tartan Tory" SNP voters have different priorities to shire Tories in southern England? Everything is as broken up here as it is down there. Is a vote for the Tories more acceptable because they can pretend everything broken is the SNP's fault and not the Tories? When in reality its both?
    Did you not read the story on here recently about the lesser of two weevils? It was profound
  • Options
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/dec/13/a-moment-when-politics-doesnt-matter-portland-responds-to-bibby-stockholm-death

    The British public once again demonstrating they are far kinder and more humane than the grotesque coterie of jackals and hyenas that constitutes the government.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,131
    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak will fly to Rome this weekend to address a political gathering hosted by the Italian prime minister Giorgia Meloni, joining a line-up of speakers who include Elon Musk and Santiago Abascal, the head of Spain’s hard-right Vox party.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rishi-sunak-italy-rome-elon-musk-giorgia-meloni-5k37cs3lc

    Rishi is still pursuing that job with Musk?
    One of Sunak's problems is that he doesn't see his duties as being to the people of the UK (a concrete noun), but to abstractions like ideas. He will go to Meloni's party to be with those he sees as his cohort to discuss the ideas of this version of the Right, without thought of consequences to the people.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,187
    rcs1000 said:

    Some of the Labour seat gains, though, will be in Scotland. So it's not quite as difficult as it appears.

    Confident
  • Options
    Can Labour make 124 seat gains? Yes.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,728
    Software comedy & Trains

    https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/08/polish_trains_geofenced_allegation/

    Short version - manufacturer put software in to brick trains if they entered rival repair shops.

    Best comment - “One of those high-level plans that completely falls apart if you think about it for more than three seconds, but gets pushed through by upper management anyway because they think they're clever.”
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,254
    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak will fly to Rome this weekend to address a political gathering hosted by the Italian prime minister Giorgia Meloni, joining a line-up of speakers who include Elon Musk and Santiago Abascal, the head of Spain’s hard-right Vox party.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rishi-sunak-italy-rome-elon-musk-giorgia-meloni-5k37cs3lc

    Rishi is still pursuing that job with Musk?
    What kind of job..?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,728
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Will something like this come to the UK?

    https://x.com/realchrisrufo/status/1735026560015720632

    Oklahoma @GovStitt has signed an executive order abolishing the DEI bureaucracy in all public universities.

    image

    No, as it would require repeal of a number of equality laws.

    Once you have these laws there needs to be a monitoring bureau to produce figures to demonstrate that an organisation is meeting the law.

    Change the name if it offends you, but someone in HR needs to take the responsibility on.

    Ours is very good at organising public health campaigns to engage underserved communities, which often have particular health needs.
    Eventually, they will be repealed. It will start in America; as ever, we shall lag 5 years behind
    Leon launches campaign for bigotry and discrimination.

    BRACE
    The sad thing is that, like H&S, real equality work is incredibly valuable.

    The people who use it as performative dance to build an empire of bullshit, should be blindfolded, and left in a building full of open elevator shafts, exposed wiring and angry leopards.

    Without HiViz
    As Foxy says, any competent HR dept and overall management have to monitor things to check they're not breaching the laws. The logical implication is that anyone demanding the abolition of equality work is necessarily demanding the abolition of the discrimination legislation. Whether they realise it or not is another question. .

    Yes. The problem is creating a sensible (and required) check on the growth of process for its own sake. Where real action is lost behind a stack of unread (and unreadable) reports on compliance.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,728

    Can Labour make 124 seat gains? Yes.

    I agree
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,481
    edited December 2023

    Can Labour make 124 seat gains? Yes.

    True but the real question is will they? Like Cameron in 2010 it is very hard to win a majority from that far back. The polling is very strong and, as others have pointed out, Scotland looks likely to get Starmer a fifth of the way there but it will be hard. Personally, I think NOC is starting to look like value.

    All of which made me think has anyone seen sight of @Heathener of late?
  • Options

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Will something like this come to the UK?

    https://x.com/realchrisrufo/status/1735026560015720632

    Oklahoma @GovStitt has signed an executive order abolishing the DEI bureaucracy in all public universities.

    image

    No, as it would require repeal of a number of equality laws.

    Once you have these laws there needs to be a monitoring bureau to produce figures to demonstrate that an organisation is meeting the law.

    Change the name if it offends you, but someone in HR needs to take the responsibility on.

    Ours is very good at organising public health campaigns to engage underserved communities, which often have particular health needs.
    Eventually, they will be repealed. It will start in America; as ever, we shall lag 5 years behind
    Leon launches campaign for bigotry and discrimination.

    BRACE
    The sad thing is that, like H&S, real equality work is incredibly valuable.

    The people who use it as performative dance to build an empire of bullshit, should be blindfolded, and left in a building full of open elevator shafts, exposed wiring and angry leopards.

    Without HiViz
    Trouble is that almost anything can be used as a performative dance to build an empire of bullshit.

    Woke can, but so can anti woke.

    See Kemi Badenoch.
    Indeed, if she was any good she would have taken more of an interest in the Post Office Inquiry.

    Let us also not forget that Kemi Badenoch is very lucky not to have a criminal record.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/apr/09/bafflement-over-tory-mps-admission-she-hacked-harriet-harmans-website
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,393
    It may not be hard to argue about a Labour Majority, but hopefully the Nation will sensible enough not to give it a massive Majority. The Govt needs to be held to account ,whatever colour it might be.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,023
    edited December 2023
    Just heard the resources being used on the Covid inquiry. 62 silks ?! At about 2.5k a day or so...

    Just ridiculous, I've not heard anything so far that couldn't have come out of a parliamentary select committee - half of them (Probably more) are lawyers after all and we'd get it for free within their £80k odd salary.
    To work out what we need to do next time requires the input of economists and epidemiologists, not dozens of KCs. Get Andy Haldane leading a team of 5 or so other economists and a similar setup for epidemiologists - give them a year and tell them to make a report.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,544

    BADENOCH: an epidemic of trans kids later regretting it
    MP: you likened people coming out as trans as a disease
    KEMI: LIAR. HOW DARE YOU! LIAR

    Its on *GBeebies* https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/national/watch-kemi-badenoch-warns-of-conversion-therapy-epidemic-targeting-gay-children/video_c8815a00-106e-5de8-9b44-9df82d028a0e.html

    Shouty Tory outraged at being called a liar whilst lying. Yep, definitely leadership material.

    But if gender dysphoria is not a disease, it is only through a bit of pedantry with tge semantics.
    But lets call it a condition rather than a disease. If any other condition had seen an increase in incidence that gender dysphoria has, we would be rightly alarmed and look for the reasons.
  • Options
    Cookie said:

    BADENOCH: an epidemic of trans kids later regretting it
    MP: you likened people coming out as trans as a disease
    KEMI: LIAR. HOW DARE YOU! LIAR

    Its on *GBeebies* https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/national/watch-kemi-badenoch-warns-of-conversion-therapy-epidemic-targeting-gay-children/video_c8815a00-106e-5de8-9b44-9df82d028a0e.html

    Shouty Tory outraged at being called a liar whilst lying. Yep, definitely leadership material.

    But if gender dysphoria is not a disease, it is only through a bit of pedantry with tge semantics.
    But lets call it a condition rather than a disease. If any other condition had seen an increase in incidence that gender dysphoria has, we would be rightly alarmed and look for the reasons.
    Is being gay a disease?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,057
    edited December 2023

    Cookie said:

    BADENOCH: an epidemic of trans kids later regretting it
    MP: you likened people coming out as trans as a disease
    KEMI: LIAR. HOW DARE YOU! LIAR

    Its on *GBeebies* https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/national/watch-kemi-badenoch-warns-of-conversion-therapy-epidemic-targeting-gay-children/video_c8815a00-106e-5de8-9b44-9df82d028a0e.html

    Shouty Tory outraged at being called a liar whilst lying. Yep, definitely leadership material.

    But if gender dysphoria is not a disease, it is only through a bit of pedantry with tge semantics.
    But lets call it a condition rather than a disease. If any other condition had seen an increase in incidence that gender dysphoria has, we would be rightly alarmed and look for the reasons.
    Is being gay a disease?
    INdeed, a good question.

    Do people speak of 'an epidemic of health'? 'a pandemic of cured knees'?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,688
    PB BRAINS TRUST

    This image just appeared on my phone (while reading the Guardian online!)

    Is this AI?



    I reckon it is. 80% certain. And if it isn’t, it could be done by AI, no problem

    This is happening
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,019
    edited December 2023

    Eabhal said:

    I think we need to take a closer look at Scotland. In a very crude analysis, the age profile of constituencies in England and Wales explains around 40% of voting patterns in the 2019 General Election, with older voters more likely to vote Conservative.

    However in Scotland the relationship is much weaker, which is what you'd expect given the presence of the SNP. What's interesting is that the SCon vote appears to be more depressed than the SLab vote. In some places the SCon vote is what you would expect (Banff and Buchan), but that's rare.

    That could be explained by a combination of tactical voting, Tartan Tories in the SNP, a particular Scottish antipathy to Johnson, or simply that Scotland is more left-wing than E&W.

    The risk for Labour is that Unionist voters in Scotland doesn't see the SNP as much of a threat anymore and revert back to the SCons, that Sunak is more attractive than Johnson for these types of voters, and that the Tartan Tory segment of the SNP is more likely to abandon them rather than Sturgeonites (with the former having half the value of the latter in SNP/Labour marginals). Our assessment of each of these dynamics in Scotland has a disproportionate weight on the result of the GE.

    It will be fascinating to participate in! Here in Banff and Buchan our MP puts out green leaflets which say you have to vote for him or you get the SNP. He can't really talk positively about things like farming and fishing as those communities aren't happy with the Brexit settlement.

    I anticipate the SNP leaflet will be the same in reverse. Vote for us or you get the Tory and Westminster bosses you around.

    Question - do the "tartan Tory" SNP voters have different priorities to shire Tories in southern England? Everything is as broken up here as it is down there. Is a vote for the Tories more acceptable because they can pretend everything broken is the SNP's fault and not the Tories? When in reality its both?
    I would imagine they won't vote at all rather than go for the Conservatives this time round - perhaps the election after? It's hard to analyse it from the numbers alone - if the Tory vote is depressed somewhere, how do we know if they are tactical SLab or Tartan Tories?

    This is based on a very crude population-shape analysis, drawing from the the popular idea that age is primary determinant of voting patterns. But age as a factor will vary in importance across the country. Another example is SNP-Brexit voters (30% of SNP voters). I would guess that varies dramatically by constituency, so cannot be used a proxy for TTs in each.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,728
    Pulpstar said:

    Just heard the resources being used on the Covid inquiry. 62 silks ?! At about 2.5k a day or so...

    Just ridiculous, I've not heard anything so far that couldn't have come out of a parliamentary select committee - half of them (Probably more) are lawyers after all and we'd get it for free within their £80k odd salary.
    To work out what we need to do next time requires the input of economists and epidemiologists, not dozens of KCs. Get Andy Haldane leading a team of 5 or so other economists and a similar setup for epidemiologists - give them a year and tell them to make a report.

    Make it 3 parallel groups working on reports independently.
  • Options

    BADENOCH: an epidemic of trans kids later regretting it
    MP: you likened people coming out as trans as a disease
    KEMI: LIAR. HOW DARE YOU! LIAR

    Its on *GBeebies* https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/national/watch-kemi-badenoch-warns-of-conversion-therapy-epidemic-targeting-gay-children/video_c8815a00-106e-5de8-9b44-9df82d028a0e.html

    Shouty Tory outraged at being called a liar whilst lying. Yep, definitely leadership material.

    Except of course that is another lie since she didn't shout.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,131
    Leon said:

    PB BRAINS TRUST

    This image just appeared on my phone (while reading the Guardian online!)

    Is this AI?



    I reckon it is. 80% certain. And if it isn’t, it could be done by AI, no problem

    This is happening

    Is it computer generated? Yes.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,896
    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    BADENOCH: an epidemic of trans kids later regretting it
    MP: you likened people coming out as trans as a disease
    KEMI: LIAR. HOW DARE YOU! LIAR

    Its on *GBeebies* https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/national/watch-kemi-badenoch-warns-of-conversion-therapy-epidemic-targeting-gay-children/video_c8815a00-106e-5de8-9b44-9df82d028a0e.html

    Shouty Tory outraged at being called a liar whilst lying. Yep, definitely leadership material.

    But if gender dysphoria is not a disease, it is only through a bit of pedantry with tge semantics.
    But lets call it a condition rather than a disease. If any other condition had seen an increase in incidence that gender dysphoria has, we would be rightly alarmed and look for the reasons.
    Is being gay a disease?
    INdeed, a good question.

    Do people speak of 'an epidemic of health'? 'a pandemic of cured knees'?
    Trans has become a shortcut, an icon for culture war out of all proportion to its importance as a social or medical phenomenon.

    It’s like little enders and big enders. Or transubstantiation and consubstantiation.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,249

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Will something like this come to the UK?

    https://x.com/realchrisrufo/status/1735026560015720632

    Oklahoma @GovStitt has signed an executive order abolishing the DEI bureaucracy in all public universities.

    image

    No, as it would require repeal of a number of equality laws.

    Once you have these laws there needs to be a monitoring bureau to produce figures to demonstrate that an organisation is meeting the law.

    Change the name if it offends you, but someone in HR needs to take the responsibility on.

    Ours is very good at organising public health campaigns to engage underserved communities, which often have particular health needs.
    Eventually, they will be repealed. It will start in America; as ever, we shall lag 5 years behind
    Leon launches campaign for bigotry and discrimination.

    BRACE
    The sad thing is that, like H&S, real equality work is incredibly valuable.

    The people who use it as performative dance to build an empire of bullshit, should be blindfolded, and left in a building full of open elevator shafts, exposed wiring and angry leopards.

    Without HiViz
    Trouble is that almost anything can be used as a performative dance to build an empire of bullshit.

    Woke can, but so can anti woke.

    See Kemi Badenoch.
    Indeed, if she was any good she would have taken more of an interest in the Post Office Inquiry.

    Let us also not forget that Kemi Badenoch is very lucky not to have a criminal record.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/apr/09/bafflement-over-tory-mps-admission-she-hacked-harriet-harmans-website
    Both she and the Post Office Minister, Kevin Hollinrake, have been very poor on this, disingenuous at best or, more accurately, they have lied to the Business Select Committee about their knowledge of the POL Board bonus issue.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 4,060
    Leon said:

    PB BRAINS TRUST

    This image just appeared on my phone (while reading the Guardian online!)

    Is this AI?



    I reckon it is. 80% certain. And if it isn’t, it could be done by AI, no problem

    This is happening

    I was pleased to see that the criminal fraternity are taking AI into planning.


  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,973
    Pulpstar said:

    Just heard the resources being used on the Covid inquiry. 62 silks ?! At about 2.5k a day or so...

    Just ridiculous, I've not heard anything so far that couldn't have come out of a parliamentary select committee - half of them (Probably more) are lawyers after all and we'd get it for free within their £80k odd salary.
    To work out what we need to do next time requires the input of economists and epidemiologists, not dozens of KCs. Get Andy Haldane leading a team of 5 or so other economists and a similar setup for epidemiologists - give them a year and tell them to make a report.

    Postdocs would be much cheaper.
  • Options
    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,311
    edited December 2023
    I think what we have learned this week is that the Tories have jumped the shark into full on populism, and that they are no longer the party of traditional conservatism. On the other hand, in today´s Times, Ian Martin is exasperated with the "five families" on the right of the Tory party. This might be a straw in the wind that the right wingers have shot their bolt, and that it will be a moderate, rather than, say, a Braverman who leads the Tories in the wilderness. The problem with that is that, notwithstanding the partial return of Cameron from the political grave, the moderates with any talent, such as Osborne, are out of the House of Commons, and many have left the party altogether.

    So, as years of the thankless graft of opposition loom ahead, none of the current crop are likely to be PM.

    That in itself is a grim thought, if you are a Tory, but there is worse.

    The voters are walking away from the Tories. The Tory brand is in very bad shape indeed, but under the bonnet, the situation is worse: membership, doners, the entire party organisation is moribund. While certain ministers and wannabes strut in the House of Commons chamber, others retire with opium pipes and exquisite boys to a different heavy velvet chamber and watch the Tory world burn.

    This truly could be existential for the Conservative Party we have known. The parallels with the Liberals of 100 years ago are growing more exact. The failure of a key policy, Home Rule or Brexit, factionalism and bitter personal rancour between rivals. a failure to engage with the electorate. Then a major change in the franchise, including votes for women which the Liberals had largely opposed, began to deliver the coup de grace, and the previously loyal Liberal working vote defected to the new Labour Party. The defection of graduates in the Blue wall could have a similar impact. A new electoral system, such as STV or other PR system, could actually kill the Tories outright.

    So, "were you still up for Gove?" could actually happen and if it did, the toil of recovery for the Tory Party may be beyond them.

    No flowers, unless a member of the Primrose League, by request.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,036
    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    I think we need to take a closer look at Scotland. In a very crude analysis, the age profile of constituencies in England and Wales explains around 40% of voting patterns in the 2019 General Election, with older voters more likely to vote Conservative.

    However in Scotland the relationship is much weaker, which is what you'd expect given the presence of the SNP. What's interesting is that the SCon vote appears to be more depressed than the SLab vote. In some places the SCon vote is what you would expect (Banff and Buchan), but that's rare.

    That could be explained by a combination of tactical voting, Tartan Tories in the SNP, a particular Scottish antipathy to Johnson, or simply that Scotland is more left-wing than E&W.

    The risk for Labour is that Unionist voters in Scotland doesn't see the SNP as much of a threat anymore and revert back to the SCons, that Sunak is more attractive than Johnson for these types of voters, and that the Tartan Tory segment of the SNP is more likely to abandon them rather than Sturgeonites (with the former having half the value of the latter in SNP/Labour marginals). Our assessment of each of these dynamics in Scotland has a disproportionate weight on the result of the GE.

    It will be fascinating to participate in! Here in Banff and Buchan our MP puts out green leaflets which say you have to vote for him or you get the SNP. He can't really talk positively about things like farming and fishing as those communities aren't happy with the Brexit settlement.

    I anticipate the SNP leaflet will be the same in reverse. Vote for us or you get the Tory and Westminster bosses you around.

    Question - do the "tartan Tory" SNP voters have different priorities to shire Tories in southern England? Everything is as broken up here as it is down there. Is a vote for the Tories more acceptable because they can pretend everything broken is the SNP's fault and not the Tories? When in reality its both?
    Did you not read the story on here recently about the lesser of two weevils? It was profound
    We also discussed admiral Fisher, who introduced bakeries into naval ships, thus getting rid of both ships biscuit, and the weevils which infested it.
    You may take that as a political metaphor.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,036
    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    BADENOCH: an epidemic of trans kids later regretting it
    MP: you likened people coming out as trans as a disease
    KEMI: LIAR. HOW DARE YOU! LIAR

    Its on *GBeebies* https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/national/watch-kemi-badenoch-warns-of-conversion-therapy-epidemic-targeting-gay-children/video_c8815a00-106e-5de8-9b44-9df82d028a0e.html

    Shouty Tory outraged at being called a liar whilst lying. Yep, definitely leadership material.

    But if gender dysphoria is not a disease, it is only through a bit of pedantry with tge semantics.
    But lets call it a condition rather than a disease. If any other condition had seen an increase in incidence that gender dysphoria has, we would be rightly alarmed and look for the reasons.
    Is being gay a disease?
    INdeed, a good question.

    Do people speak of 'an epidemic of health'? 'a pandemic of cured knees'?
    We do talk of stupidity being endemic in this government.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,896
    In more encouraging news, seasonal forecasts of a relatively warm winter in Europe and Eastern North America, alongside further increases in supply, are getting us close to something of a glut in LNG. Gas prices per therm down to £90 here but if weather doesn’t turn too wintry should fall further.

    We just need oil to drop now. Triple benefit: boosts Western economic growth, impoverished Russia, and chills new investment in reserves (so long as overall we keep weaning ourselves off the stuff).
  • Options
    Anyone else enjoy the barcode Mackems and the Saudi sportswashing project go horribly wrong last night?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,131
    Cookie said:

    BADENOCH: an epidemic of trans kids later regretting it
    MP: you likened people coming out as trans as a disease
    KEMI: LIAR. HOW DARE YOU! LIAR

    Its on *GBeebies* https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/national/watch-kemi-badenoch-warns-of-conversion-therapy-epidemic-targeting-gay-children/video_c8815a00-106e-5de8-9b44-9df82d028a0e.html

    Shouty Tory outraged at being called a liar whilst lying. Yep, definitely leadership material.

    But if gender dysphoria is not a disease, it is only through a bit of pedantry with tge semantics.
    But lets call it a condition rather than a disease. If any other condition had seen an increase in incidence that gender dysphoria has, we would be rightly alarmed and look for the reasons.
    You may be aware of my rant about the medicalisation of normal human variation. However your response in turn raises further questions about how we assess things (absolute values, relative values, thresholds) and how we approach things (exalt, enable, ignore, disable, condemn).

    Which, as I have to go to work, is probably too much to go into detail... ☹️
  • Options
    Leon said:

    PB BRAINS TRUST

    This image just appeared on my phone (while reading the Guardian online!)

    Is this AI?



    I reckon it is. 80% certain. And if it isn’t, it could be done by AI, no problem

    This is happening

    I got a pizza leaflet through my door yesterday. Was it delivered by robots, and are ALIENS making doughballs in an underground warehouse beneath our very feet? I reckon they are - 87% certain. And, if not, the only reason it isn't is FBI suppression.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,249

    Cookie said:

    BADENOCH: an epidemic of trans kids later regretting it
    MP: you likened people coming out as trans as a disease
    KEMI: LIAR. HOW DARE YOU! LIAR

    Its on *GBeebies* https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/national/watch-kemi-badenoch-warns-of-conversion-therapy-epidemic-targeting-gay-children/video_c8815a00-106e-5de8-9b44-9df82d028a0e.html

    Shouty Tory outraged at being called a liar whilst lying. Yep, definitely leadership material.

    But if gender dysphoria is not a disease, it is only through a bit of pedantry with tge semantics.
    But lets call it a condition rather than a disease. If any other condition had seen an increase in incidence that gender dysphoria has, we would be rightly alarmed and look for the reasons.
    Is being gay a disease?
    Of course not.

    But being gay and gender dysphoria are two very different things. The latter may require therapy and there is real concern expressed by many medical specialists in the field that young people should not be automatically put on a lifetime of medication and bodily mutilation with some very serious consequences without first having a proper exploration of what may lie behind the dysphoria. Because in a significant number of cases it may resolve itself over time or the young people grow up to be happily gay.

    Pharmaceutical companies have a financial interest in pushing expensive lifetime medication. We should be wary of accepting that that is automatically - as the push for "affirmation" seems to imply - the right course of action for every single teenager expressing bodily discomfort. Careful exploration of what lies behind the discomfort, especially for young people with other conditions, as set out in detail in the Cass Report and other studies, is sensible.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,382
    Leon said:

    PB BRAINS TRUST

    This image just appeared on my phone (while reading the Guardian online!)

    Is this AI?



    I reckon it is. 80% certain. And if it isn’t, it could be done by AI, no problem

    This is happening

    No, it's a scam and a scam that won't be allowed to make such absurd claims in the new year.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,728
    TimS said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    BADENOCH: an epidemic of trans kids later regretting it
    MP: you likened people coming out as trans as a disease
    KEMI: LIAR. HOW DARE YOU! LIAR

    Its on *GBeebies* https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/national/watch-kemi-badenoch-warns-of-conversion-therapy-epidemic-targeting-gay-children/video_c8815a00-106e-5de8-9b44-9df82d028a0e.html

    Shouty Tory outraged at being called a liar whilst lying. Yep, definitely leadership material.

    But if gender dysphoria is not a disease, it is only through a bit of pedantry with tge semantics.
    But lets call it a condition rather than a disease. If any other condition had seen an increase in incidence that gender dysphoria has, we would be rightly alarmed and look for the reasons.
    Is being gay a disease?
    INdeed, a good question.

    Do people speak of 'an epidemic of health'? 'a pandemic of cured knees'?
    Trans has become a shortcut, an icon for culture war out of all proportion to its importance as a social or medical phenomenon.

    It’s like little enders and big enders. Or transubstantiation and consubstantiation.
    “Will you men of Kilclavers,' I asked, 'endure to see a chasuble set up in your market-place? Will you have your daughters sold into simony? Will you have celibacy practised in the public streets?'”
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,019

    Anyone else enjoy the barcode Mackems and the Saudi sportswashing project go horribly wrong last night?

    The shirts were a horrible clash I'm told. My friend got free tickets through the RBS app for some reason - first football game he's ever been to.
  • Options

    Anyone else enjoy the barcode Mackems and the Saudi sportswashing project go horribly wrong last night?

    I do have to giggle a little. As a ManU fan we've gone through endless "Glazers Out" protests and then a succession of messiah managers each of whom has utterly failed.

    Gary Neville got it right - rot from the head downwards. The Manchester United fish has been rotting for years and can't be saved by just fluffing a few scales. Newcastle United have opted to remove the head and install a pre-rotted one, which is ambitious.

    I wish them every success in their strategy to expensively fail and then have a rotating door policy of managers and marquee players.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,728
    TimS said:

    In more encouraging news, seasonal forecasts of a relatively warm winter in Europe and Eastern North America, alongside further increases in supply, are getting us close to something of a glut in LNG. Gas prices per therm down to £90 here but if weather doesn’t turn too wintry should fall further.

    We just need oil to drop now. Triple benefit: boosts Western economic growth, impoverished Russia, and chills new investment in reserves (so long as overall we keep weaning ourselves off the stuff).

    The detaching of the LNG price from the oil price is a massive benefit to the world and one that is often forgotten.
  • Options

    Anyone else enjoy the barcode Mackems and the Saudi sportswashing project go horribly wrong last night?

    Yes, wonderful to see acknowledged good guys of world football, PSG, go through at Newcastle's expense. A heartwarming, underdog story.
  • Options
    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,377
    edited December 2023

    BADENOCH: an epidemic of trans kids later regretting it
    MP: you likened people coming out as trans as a disease
    KEMI: LIAR. HOW DARE YOU! LIAR

    Its on *GBeebies* https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/national/watch-kemi-badenoch-warns-of-conversion-therapy-epidemic-targeting-gay-children/video_c8815a00-106e-5de8-9b44-9df82d028a0e.html

    Shouty Tory outraged at being called a liar whilst lying. Yep, definitely leadership material.

    Well it's rather reassuring to hear for once from the Secretary of State for Business and Trade. She's been so quiet of late I was beginning to wonder whether she was still amongst us. And of course there has been every reason to hear from her. She is the Minister currently in charge of the Post Office, so you might imagine that she would have something to say about the parade of liars, rogues, charlatans and crooks appearing on behalf of the PO at the Inquiry into the biggest public scandal of my lifetime.

    Instead, silence.

    I do not believe this is judicious restraint whilst the Inquiry gets on with its work. It is tacit support for the PO's policy of obstructing and delaying that work. Her Government owns the PO. It could tell its Board to stop acting the goat and start cooperating. You can draw your own conclusions from its failure to do so.

    Is Kemi complicit, or is she merely lazy, incompetent, and indifferent?
  • Options
    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    BADENOCH: an epidemic of trans kids later regretting it
    MP: you likened people coming out as trans as a disease
    KEMI: LIAR. HOW DARE YOU! LIAR

    Its on *GBeebies* https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/national/watch-kemi-badenoch-warns-of-conversion-therapy-epidemic-targeting-gay-children/video_c8815a00-106e-5de8-9b44-9df82d028a0e.html

    Shouty Tory outraged at being called a liar whilst lying. Yep, definitely leadership material.

    But if gender dysphoria is not a disease, it is only through a bit of pedantry with tge semantics.
    But lets call it a condition rather than a disease. If any other condition had seen an increase in incidence that gender dysphoria has, we would be rightly alarmed and look for the reasons.
    Is being gay a disease?
    Of course not.

    But being gay and gender dysphoria are two very different things. The latter may require therapy and there is real concern expressed by many medical specialists in the field that young people should not be automatically put on a lifetime of medication and bodily mutilation with some very serious consequences without first having a proper exploration of what may lie behind the dysphoria. Because in a significant number of cases it may resolve itself over time or the young people grow up to be happily gay.

    Pharmaceutical companies have a financial interest in pushing expensive lifetime medication. We should be wary of accepting that that is automatically - as the push for "affirmation" seems to imply - the right course of action for every single teenager expressing bodily discomfort. Careful exploration of what lies behind the discomfort, especially for young people with other conditions, as set out in detail in the Cass Report and other studies, is sensible.
    As always, balance is the right approach. Has "trans" become trendy? Sure - and thats why there need to be robust support and sense-check barriers before doing anything drastic.

    But Badenoch and her ilk know exactly what they are doing by inferring that being trans is a disease - that is what referring to an epidemic does. It is othering of a group they don't like.

    Badenoch can sit in self-important outrage at being called out. But she was called out. Hopefully she knows her behavior is performative and she isn't mince enough to truly believe she was innocent.
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,021
    Cicero said:

    I think what we have learned this week is that the Tories have jumped the shark into full on populism, and that they are no longer the party of traditional conservatism. On the other hand, in today´s Times, Ian Martin is exasperated with the "five families" on the right of the Tory party. This might be a straw in the wind that the right wingers have shot their bolt, and that it will be a moderate, rather than, say, a Braverman who leads the Tories in the wilderness. The problem with that is that, notwithstanding the partial return of Cameron from the political grave, the moderates with any talent, such as Osborne, are out of the House of Commons, and many have left the party altogether.

    So, as years of the thankless graft of opposition loom ahead, none of the current crop are likely to be PM.

    That in itself is a grim thought, if you are a Tory, but there is worse.

    The voters are walking away from the Tories. The Tory brand is in very bad shape indeed, but under the bonnet, the situation is worse: membership, doners, the entire party organisation is moribund. While certain ministers and wannabes strut in the House of Commons chamber, others retire with opium pipes and exquisite boys to a different heavy velvet chamber and watch the Tory world burn.

    This truly could be existential for the Conservative Party we have known. The parallels with the Liberals of 100 years ago are growing more exact. The failure of a key policy, Home Rule or Brexit, factionalism and bitter personal rancour between rivals. a failure to engage with the electorate. Then a major change in the franchise, including votes for women which the Liberals had largely opposed, began to deliver the coup de grace, and the previously loyal Liberal working vote defected to the new Labour Party. The defection of graduates in the Blue wall could have a similar impact. A new electoral system, such as STV or other PR system, could actually kill the Tories outright.

    So, "were you still up for Gove?" could actually happen and if it did, the toil of recovery for the Tory Party may be beyond them.

    No flowers, unless a member of the Primrose League, by request.

    'membership, doners, the entire party organisation is moribund.' Is this yet another group of plotters? The Kebab Club?
  • Options

    BADENOCH: an epidemic of trans kids later regretting it
    MP: you likened people coming out as trans as a disease
    KEMI: LIAR. HOW DARE YOU! LIAR

    Its on *GBeebies* https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/national/watch-kemi-badenoch-warns-of-conversion-therapy-epidemic-targeting-gay-children/video_c8815a00-106e-5de8-9b44-9df82d028a0e.html

    Shouty Tory outraged at being called a liar whilst lying. Yep, definitely leadership material.

    Well it's rather reassuring to hear for once from the Secretary of State for Business and Trade. She's been so quiet of late I was beginning to wonder whether she was still amongst us. And of course there has been every reason to hear from her. She is the Minister currently in charge of the Post Office, so you might imagine that she would have something to say about the parade of liars, rogues, charlatans and crooks appearing on behalf of the PO at the Inquiry into the biggest public scandal of my lifetime.

    Instead, silence.

    I do not believe this is judicious restraint whilst the Inquiry gets on with its work. It is tacit support for the PO's policy of obstructing and delaying its work. Her Government owns the PO. It could tell its Board to stop acting the goat and start cooperating. You can draw your own conclusions from its failure to do so.

    Is Kemi complicit, or is she merely lazy, incompetent, and indifferent?
    Yes
  • Options

    Anyone else enjoy the barcode Mackems and the Saudi sportswashing project go horribly wrong last night?

    I do have to giggle a little. As a ManU fan we've gone through endless "Glazers Out" protests and then a succession of messiah managers each of whom has utterly failed.

    Gary Neville got it right - rot from the head downwards. The Manchester United fish has been rotting for years and can't be saved by just fluffing a few scales. Newcastle United have opted to remove the head and install a pre-rotted one, which is ambitious.

    I wish them every success in their strategy to expensively fail and then have a rotating door policy of managers and marquee players.
    They have actually stuck with one manager and bought in players with potential and a good age profile rather than marquee players. Newcastle's ownership issues are quite different to Man Utd's who are more in the same boat as Chelsea in suffering from short termism and poor to non existant planning.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,728
    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    BADENOCH: an epidemic of trans kids later regretting it
    MP: you likened people coming out as trans as a disease
    KEMI: LIAR. HOW DARE YOU! LIAR

    Its on *GBeebies* https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/national/watch-kemi-badenoch-warns-of-conversion-therapy-epidemic-targeting-gay-children/video_c8815a00-106e-5de8-9b44-9df82d028a0e.html

    Shouty Tory outraged at being called a liar whilst lying. Yep, definitely leadership material.

    But if gender dysphoria is not a disease, it is only through a bit of pedantry with tge semantics.
    But lets call it a condition rather than a disease. If any other condition had seen an increase in incidence that gender dysphoria has, we would be rightly alarmed and look for the reasons.
    Is being gay a disease?
    Of course not.

    But being gay and gender dysphoria are two very different things. The latter may require therapy and there is real concern expressed by many medical specialists in the field that young people should not be automatically put on a lifetime of medication and bodily mutilation with some very serious consequences without first having a proper exploration of what may lie behind the dysphoria. Because in a significant number of cases it may resolve itself over time or the young people grow up to be happily gay.

    Pharmaceutical companies have a financial interest in pushing expensive lifetime medication. We should be wary of accepting that that is automatically - as the push for "affirmation" seems to imply - the right course of action for every single teenager expressing bodily discomfort. Careful exploration of what lies behind the discomfort, especially for young people with other conditions, as set out in detail in the Cass Report and other studies, is sensible.
    Some years back, the American medical profession evinced horror at the European toleration of “endemic pain”.

    The Sackler family says hi.

    Re Trans : We need to improve data gathering on the medical interventions in question to get reliable information, as a priority.
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,021
    edited December 2023

    Anyone else enjoy the barcode Mackems and the Saudi sportswashing project go horribly wrong last night?

    FA Cup Round 3: I'll be mackem for a day.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,896

    BADENOCH: an epidemic of trans kids later regretting it
    MP: you likened people coming out as trans as a disease
    KEMI: LIAR. HOW DARE YOU! LIAR

    Its on *GBeebies* https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/national/watch-kemi-badenoch-warns-of-conversion-therapy-epidemic-targeting-gay-children/video_c8815a00-106e-5de8-9b44-9df82d028a0e.html

    Shouty Tory outraged at being called a liar whilst lying. Yep, definitely leadership material.

    Well it's rather reassuring to hear for once from the Secretary of State for Business and Trade. She's been so quiet of late I was beginning to wonder whether she was still amongst us. And of course there has been every reason to hear from her. She is the Minister currently in charge of the Post Office, so you might imagine that she would have something to say about the parade of liars, rogues, charlatans and crooks appearing on behalf of the PO at the Inquiry into the biggest public scandal of my lifetime.

    Instead, silence.

    I do not believe this is judicious restraint whilst the Inquiry gets on with its work. It is tacit support for the PO's policy of obstructing and delaying its work. Her Government owns the PO. It could tell its Board to stop acting the goat and start cooperating. You can draw your own conclusions from its failure to do so.

    Is Kemi complicit, or is she merely lazy, incompetent, and indifferent?
    Good to see her talking about her area of responsibility, business and trade. After all gender dysphoria is often a crucial feature of FTAs with our trading partners.

    I don't find her particularly menacing. I think she's playing an act and quite enjoying it. She sounds off, but always with what looks like a twinkle in the eye. A kind of right wing 2020-vintage Angela Rayner. Unlike Braverman, who actually seems to get properly cross about stuff. Or Jenrick with his Disney paintovers. Or indeed Tories (and some Labour politicians) who from time immemorial have convinced themselves the biggest problem in the country is benefits cheats and skivers.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,036
    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    BADENOCH: an epidemic of trans kids later regretting it
    MP: you likened people coming out as trans as a disease
    KEMI: LIAR. HOW DARE YOU! LIAR

    Its on *GBeebies* https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/national/watch-kemi-badenoch-warns-of-conversion-therapy-epidemic-targeting-gay-children/video_c8815a00-106e-5de8-9b44-9df82d028a0e.html

    Shouty Tory outraged at being called a liar whilst lying. Yep, definitely leadership material.

    But if gender dysphoria is not a disease, it is only through a bit of pedantry with tge semantics.
    But lets call it a condition rather than a disease. If any other condition had seen an increase in incidence that gender dysphoria has, we would be rightly alarmed and look for the reasons.
    Is being gay a disease?
    Of course not.

    But being gay and gender dysphoria are two very different things. The latter may require therapy and there is real concern expressed by many medical specialists in the field that young people should not be automatically put on a lifetime of medication and bodily mutilation with some very serious consequences without first having a proper exploration of what may lie behind the dysphoria. Because in a significant number of cases it may resolve itself over time or the young people grow up to be happily gay.

    Pharmaceutical companies have a financial interest in pushing expensive lifetime medication. We should be wary of accepting that that is automatically - as the push for "affirmation" seems to imply - the right course of action for every single teenager expressing bodily discomfort. Careful exploration of what lies behind the discomfort, especially for young people with other conditions, as set out in detail in the Cass Report and other studies, is sensible.
    What are those expensive lifetime medications ?
    Testosterone and oestrogen certainly aren't.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,688
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    PB BRAINS TRUST

    This image just appeared on my phone (while reading the Guardian online!)

    Is this AI?



    I reckon it is. 80% certain. And if it isn’t, it could be done by AI, no problem

    This is happening

    Is it computer generated? Yes.
    Yes. It is. Look at the barrels behind. Makes no sense

    I’m on Midjourney right now. It is clearly full of graphic designers producing “fake” images for nothing.
    Example prompt:

    **full body, Young and skinny instagram woman model, with bob haircut and dark hair color, straight hair type parted in the middle , sitting on the floor near the fireplace, dressed in oversize knit off-the-shoulde sweater , low angle shot, DSLR , rack focus, candid photography, girl is very happy , 16K --ar 4:3 --style raw** - <@1104656911879639091&gt; (fast)

    Images:



    Note to photographers and models: change career


  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,544

    Cookie said:

    BADENOCH: an epidemic of trans kids later regretting it
    MP: you likened people coming out as trans as a disease
    KEMI: LIAR. HOW DARE YOU! LIAR

    Its on *GBeebies* https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/national/watch-kemi-badenoch-warns-of-conversion-therapy-epidemic-targeting-gay-children/video_c8815a00-106e-5de8-9b44-9df82d028a0e.html

    Shouty Tory outraged at being called a liar whilst lying. Yep, definitely leadership material.

    But if gender dysphoria is not a disease, it is only through a bit of pedantry with tge semantics.
    But lets call it a condition rather than a disease. If any other condition had seen an increase in incidence that gender dysphoria has, we would be rightly alarmed and look for the reasons.
    Is being gay a disease?
    Homosexuality, is, I understand, a preference for your own sex rather than the opposite - the point being, I understand, is that gay people are physically and constitutionally no different from straight people*. While gender dysphoria is, I understand, the opposite: the gender dysphoric's body is 'wrong'. So almost the opposite issue.

    *though I remember seeing something on QI that gay men's hair tends to circle the crown in the opposite way to that of straight men, in a surprisingly statistically significant number of cases. I don't know the truth of this but it strikes me that if true this seems much more significant than was made out.
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,896

    TimS said:

    In more encouraging news, seasonal forecasts of a relatively warm winter in Europe and Eastern North America, alongside further increases in supply, are getting us close to something of a glut in LNG. Gas prices per therm down to £90 here but if weather doesn’t turn too wintry should fall further.

    We just need oil to drop now. Triple benefit: boosts Western economic growth, impoverished Russia, and chills new investment in reserves (so long as overall we keep weaning ourselves off the stuff).

    The detaching of the LNG price from the oil price is a massive benefit to the world and one that is often forgotten.
    Always striking looking over economic history both here and globally to see such a simple pattern. Cheap energy -> economic growth -> more expensive energy -> recession -> cheap energy. Another reason why the quicker we can get into a world of cheap renewable energy the better.
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    Anyone else enjoy the barcode Mackems and the Saudi sportswashing project go horribly wrong last night?

    I do have to giggle a little. As a ManU fan we've gone through endless "Glazers Out" protests and then a succession of messiah managers each of whom has utterly failed.

    Gary Neville got it right - rot from the head downwards. The Manchester United fish has been rotting for years and can't be saved by just fluffing a few scales. Newcastle United have opted to remove the head and install a pre-rotted one, which is ambitious.

    I wish them every success in their strategy to expensively fail and then have a rotating door policy of managers and marquee players.
    They have actually stuck with one manager and bought in players with potential and a good age profile rather than marquee players. Newcastle's ownership issues are quite different to Man Utd's who are more in the same boat as Chelsea in suffering from short termism and poor to non existant planning.
    Methinks you missed the word "then" in my comment. They have given Steve Howe a run now. But after he gets the sack just watch that rotating door speed up.
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    Leon are you forgetting that you’re banned from posting AI images?
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,688
    Cicero said:

    I think what we have learned this week is that the Tories have jumped the shark into full on populism, and that they are no longer the party of traditional conservatism. On the other hand, in today´s Times, Ian Martin is exasperated with the "five families" on the right of the Tory party. This might be a straw in the wind that the right wingers have shot their bolt, and that it will be a moderate, rather than, say, a Braverman who leads the Tories in the wilderness. The problem with that is that, notwithstanding the partial return of Cameron from the political grave, the moderates with any talent, such as Osborne, are out of the House of Commons, and many have left the party altogether.

    So, as years of the thankless graft of opposition loom ahead, none of the current crop are likely to be PM.

    That in itself is a grim thought, if you are a Tory, but there is worse.

    The voters are walking away from the Tories. The Tory brand is in very bad shape indeed, but under the bonnet, the situation is worse: membership, doners, the entire party organisation is moribund. While certain ministers and wannabes strut in the House of Commons chamber, others retire with opium pipes and exquisite boys to a different heavy velvet chamber and watch the Tory world burn.

    This truly could be existential for the Conservative Party we have known. The parallels with the Liberals of 100 years ago are growing more exact. The failure of a key policy, Home Rule or Brexit, factionalism and bitter personal rancour between rivals. a failure to engage with the electorate. Then a major change in the franchise, including votes for women which the Liberals had largely opposed, began to deliver the coup de grace, and the previously loyal Liberal working vote defected to the new Labour Party. The defection of graduates in the Blue wall could have a similar impact. A new electoral system, such as STV or other PR system, could actually kill the Tories outright.

    So, "were you still up for Gove?" could actually happen and if it did, the toil of recovery for the Tory Party may be beyond them.

    No flowers, unless a member of the Primrose League, by request.

    It will be replaced by a hard right party. Full fat 100% antiWoke. Beware of what you wish for. Look around the world

    Gloating lefties seem to believe Britain is immune to proper right wing populism. They are fools. They will miss the pathetic old moth-eaten Tory party when it is gone
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,882
    edited December 2023
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    PB BRAINS TRUST

    This image just appeared on my phone (while reading the Guardian online!)

    Is this AI?



    I reckon it is. 80% certain. And if it isn’t, it could be done by AI, no problem

    This is happening

    No, it's a scam and a scam that won't be allowed to make such absurd claims in the new year.
    Are you suggesting that someone might be trying to lure Leon into a scam by using a fake picture of a busty young woman?

    How ridiculous - shame on you!
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,544

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    BADENOCH: an epidemic of trans kids later regretting it
    MP: you likened people coming out as trans as a disease
    KEMI: LIAR. HOW DARE YOU! LIAR

    Its on *GBeebies* https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/national/watch-kemi-badenoch-warns-of-conversion-therapy-epidemic-targeting-gay-children/video_c8815a00-106e-5de8-9b44-9df82d028a0e.html

    Shouty Tory outraged at being called a liar whilst lying. Yep, definitely leadership material.

    But if gender dysphoria is not a disease, it is only through a bit of pedantry with tge semantics.
    But lets call it a condition rather than a disease. If any other condition had seen an increase in incidence that gender dysphoria has, we would be rightly alarmed and look for the reasons.
    Is being gay a disease?
    Of course not.

    But being gay and gender dysphoria are two very different things. The latter may require therapy and there is real concern expressed by many medical specialists in the field that young people should not be automatically put on a lifetime of medication and bodily mutilation with some very serious consequences without first having a proper exploration of what may lie behind the dysphoria. Because in a significant number of cases it may resolve itself over time or the young people grow up to be happily gay.

    Pharmaceutical companies have a financial interest in pushing expensive lifetime medication. We should be wary of accepting that that is automatically - as the push for "affirmation" seems to imply - the right course of action for every single teenager expressing bodily discomfort. Careful exploration of what lies behind the discomfort, especially for young people with other conditions, as set out in detail in the Cass Report and other studies, is sensible.
    As always, balance is the right approach. Has "trans" become trendy? Sure - and thats why there need to be robust support and sense-check barriers before doing anything drastic.

    But Badenoch and her ilk know exactly what they are doing by inferring that being trans is a disease - that is what referring to an epidemic does. It is othering of a group they don't like.

    Badenoch can sit in self-important outrage at being called out. But she was called out. Hopefully she knows her behavior is performative and she isn't mince enough to truly believe she was innocent.
    A pedant notes: I think you mean implying, not inferring.
  • Options

    NEW THREAD

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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,728
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    In more encouraging news, seasonal forecasts of a relatively warm winter in Europe and Eastern North America, alongside further increases in supply, are getting us close to something of a glut in LNG. Gas prices per therm down to £90 here but if weather doesn’t turn too wintry should fall further.

    We just need oil to drop now. Triple benefit: boosts Western economic growth, impoverished Russia, and chills new investment in reserves (so long as overall we keep weaning ourselves off the stuff).

    The detaching of the LNG price from the oil price is a massive benefit to the world and one that is often forgotten.
    Always striking looking over economic history both here and globally to see such a simple pattern. Cheap energy -> economic growth -> more expensive energy -> recession -> cheap energy. Another reason why the quicker we can get into a world of cheap renewable energy the better.
    Ever since I can remember - some kind of hiccup with OPEC (or similar), recession time.

    As you say, getting to a world of cheap, stable energy prices will be seriously valuable.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,249

    BADENOCH: an epidemic of trans kids later regretting it
    MP: you likened people coming out as trans as a disease
    KEMI: LIAR. HOW DARE YOU! LIAR

    Its on *GBeebies* https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/national/watch-kemi-badenoch-warns-of-conversion-therapy-epidemic-targeting-gay-children/video_c8815a00-106e-5de8-9b44-9df82d028a0e.html

    Shouty Tory outraged at being called a liar whilst lying. Yep, definitely leadership material.

    Well it's rather reassuring to hear for once from the Secretary of State for Business and Trade. She's been so quiet of late I was beginning to wonder whether she was still amongst us. And of course there has been every reason to hear from her. She is the Minister currently in charge of the Post Office, so you might imagine that she would have something to say about the parade of liars, rogues, charlatans and crooks appearing on behalf of the PO at the Inquiry into the biggest public scandal of my lifetime.

    Instead, silence.

    I do not believe this is judicious restraint whilst the Inquiry gets on with its work. It is tacit support for the PO's policy of obstructing and delaying that work. Her Government owns the PO. It could tell its Board to stop acting the goat and start cooperating. You can draw your own conclusions from its failure to do so.

    Is Kemi complicit, or is she merely lazy, incompetent, and indifferent?
    It does not matter. Her silence and failure to act are in effect complicity in the Post Office's behaviour which is deliberately and intentionally undermining the Inquiry, the chances of any effective compensation, the overturning of unjust convictions and effective criminal, regulatory or disciplinary action against all those responsible.

    This is now a governmental scandal - not merely an IT or legal one.

    I have no confidence Labour will put it right. And I now feel that the state is a malign actor when it comes to putting - or, rather, failing to put - the interests of those it is meant to serve ahead of its own.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,688
    edited December 2023

    Leon are you forgetting that you’re banned from posting AI images?

    The first was merely an example of a potential AI image (I’m not sure myself if it is AI or not). Can we not even discuss this issue? If we are unable to use examples it prevents us from properly debating a crucial area which may be pivotal in the next US/UK elex: AI fakery

  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,882

    Anyone else enjoy the barcode Mackems and the Saudi sportswashing project go horribly wrong last night?

    As a Man U fan, I welcome Newcastle's sensible decision to 'concentrate on the league'.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,688
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    PB BRAINS TRUST

    This image just appeared on my phone (while reading the Guardian online!)

    Is this AI?



    I reckon it is. 80% certain. And if it isn’t, it could be done by AI, no problem

    This is happening

    I was pleased to see that the criminal fraternity are taking AI into planning.


    Proper lol
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,023
    TimS said:

    In more encouraging news, seasonal forecasts of a relatively warm winter in Europe and Eastern North America, alongside further increases in supply, are getting us close to something of a glut in LNG. Gas prices per therm down to £90 here but if weather doesn’t turn too wintry should fall further.

    We just need oil to drop now. Triple benefit: boosts Western economic growth, impoverished Russia, and chills new investment in reserves (so long as overall we keep weaning ourselves off the stuff).

    Just agreed a commercial supply for 30p / day standing charge (£109.65/yr) and 7p per kwH.
  • Options
    Leon said:

    Leon are you forgetting that you’re banned from posting AI images?

    The first was merely an example of a potential AI image (I’m not sure myself if it is AI or not). Can we not even discuss this issue? If we are unable to use examples it prevents us from properly debating a crucial area which may be pivotal in the next US/UK elex: AI fakery

    I think, Leon, that it is just you who is banned from discussing AI. The rest of us are free to do so.
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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,162

    BADENOCH: an epidemic of trans kids later regretting it
    MP: you likened people coming out as trans as a disease
    KEMI: LIAR. HOW DARE YOU! LIAR

    Its on *GBeebies* https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/national/watch-kemi-badenoch-warns-of-conversion-therapy-epidemic-targeting-gay-children/video_c8815a00-106e-5de8-9b44-9df82d028a0e.html

    Shouty Tory outraged at being called a liar whilst lying. Yep, definitely leadership material.

    That is misrepresenting the discussion. Shame on you.

    FWIW I think Kemi has an I tereston perspective and deserves a place in government but is not PM or LOTO material. Nt yet, at least
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,162
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Will something like this come to the UK?

    https://x.com/realchrisrufo/status/1735026560015720632

    Oklahoma @GovStitt has signed an executive order abolishing the DEI bureaucracy in all public universities.

    image

    No, as it would require repeal of a number of equality laws.

    Once you have these laws there needs to be a monitoring bureau to produce figures to demonstrate that an organisation is meeting the law.

    Change the name if it offends you, but someone in HR needs to take the responsibility on.

    Ours is very good at organising public health campaigns to engage underserved communities, which often have particular health needs.
    Eventually, they will be repealed. It will start in America; as ever, we shall lag 5 years behind
    Leon launches campaign for bigotry and discrimination.

    BRACE
    The sad thing is that, like H&S, real equality work is incredibly valuable.

    The people who use it as performative dance to build an empire of bullshit, should be blindfolded, and left in a building full of open elevator shafts, exposed wiring and angry leopards.

    Without HiViz
    As Foxy says, any competent HR dept and overall management have to monitor things to check they're not breaching the laws. The logical implication is that anyone demanding the abolition of equality work is necessarily demanding the abolition of the discrimination legislation. Whether they realise it or not is another question. .

    The issue is having a dedicated team member. Inevitably they will look to expand
    their role. Monitoring is important but can be done as part of the general administration function of HR
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,728

    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Will something like this come to the UK?

    https://x.com/realchrisrufo/status/1735026560015720632

    Oklahoma @GovStitt has signed an executive order abolishing the DEI bureaucracy in all public universities.

    image

    No, as it would require repeal of a number of equality laws.

    Once you have these laws there needs to be a monitoring bureau to produce figures to demonstrate that an organisation is meeting the law.

    Change the name if it offends you, but someone in HR needs to take the responsibility on.

    Ours is very good at organising public health campaigns to engage underserved communities, which often have particular health needs.
    Eventually, they will be repealed. It will start in America; as ever, we shall lag 5 years behind
    Leon launches campaign for bigotry and discrimination.

    BRACE
    The sad thing is that, like H&S, real equality work is incredibly valuable.

    The people who use it as performative dance to build an empire of bullshit, should be blindfolded, and left in a building full of open elevator shafts, exposed wiring and angry leopards.

    Without HiViz
    As Foxy says, any competent HR dept and overall management have to monitor things to check they're not breaching the laws. The logical implication is that anyone demanding the abolition of equality work is necessarily demanding the abolition of the discrimination legislation. Whether they realise it or not is another question. .

    The issue is having a dedicated team member. Inevitably they will look to expand
    their role. Monitoring is important but can be done as part of the general administration function of HR
    It is very easy to scale up a role or department. Scaling down to suit actual needs is much harder.

  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,231
    edited December 2023
    ....
  • Options
    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,311
    edited December 2023
    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    I think what we have learned this week is that the Tories have jumped the shark into full on populism, and that they are no longer the party of traditional conservatism. On the other hand, in today´s Times, Ian Martin is exasperated with the "five families" on the right of the Tory party. This might be a straw in the wind that the right wingers have shot their bolt, and that it will be a moderate, rather than, say, a Braverman who leads the Tories in the wilderness. The problem with that is that, notwithstanding the partial return of Cameron from the political grave, the moderates with any talent, such as Osborne, are out of the House of Commons, and many have left the party altogether.

    So, as years of the thankless graft of opposition loom ahead, none of the current crop are likely to be PM.

    That in itself is a grim thought, if you are a Tory, but there is worse.

    The voters are walking away from the Tories. The Tory brand is in very bad shape indeed, but under the bonnet, the situation is worse: membership, doners, the entire party organisation is moribund. While certain ministers and wannabes strut in the House of Commons chamber, others retire with opium pipes and exquisite boys to a different heavy velvet chamber and watch the Tory world burn.

    This truly could be existential for the Conservative Party we have known. The parallels with the Liberals of 100 years ago are growing more exact. The failure of a key policy, Home Rule or Brexit, factionalism and bitter personal rancour between rivals. a failure to engage with the electorate. Then a major change in the franchise, including votes for women which the Liberals had largely opposed, began to deliver the coup de grace, and the previously loyal Liberal working vote defected to the new Labour Party. The defection of graduates in the Blue wall could have a similar impact. A new electoral system, such as STV or other PR system, could actually kill the Tories outright.

    So, "were you still up for Gove?" could actually happen and if it did, the toil of recovery for the Tory Party may be beyond them.

    No flowers, unless a member of the Primrose League, by request.

    It will be replaced by a hard right party. Full fat 100% antiWoke. Beware of what you wish for. Look around the world

    Gloating lefties seem to believe Britain is immune to proper right wing populism. They are fools. They will miss the pathetic old moth-eaten Tory party when it is gone
    The point is that the Old Conservative party is already dead. The party was a coalition that has now dissolved into factions as the right has driven out a whole generation of the moderates. BUT, the moderates have support that the right cannot get. So, unless they can recreate the coalition with actual Conservatives, the Populists will not succeed. Graduates and Grandees have left the Tory tent.

    A hard right party is 15-20% max, so out out of power, period. In a world of PR, it might get a few ministers, but never the PM. Its really only you and the other Tory media hacks in the louche bars of Soho or Fitzrovia that care about most of the populist agenda, and coked up bores are very thin franchise. Rwanda is not a serious policy and those who use it for their "antiWoke" agenda are not serious about anything but trivial political onanism.

    Unless you can rebuild the Conservative coalition, Populism is a dead end, and the longer the Tories stay in the woodshed, the more likely the voters will forget about them.

    Is that gloating? Not really, in a way its more in sorry than in anger, the Grandees were a lot of fun sometimes, but after the past 8 years of populist right wingers making assholes of themselves and fighting their own side, the voters are totally sick of anything with a blue rosette. Farage is even less popular.

    It wasn´t the lefties that destroyed the Conservatives, it was the nihilist nutters in the political/media complex, from Cummings to Nelson, who decided that Conservatives should not be conservative but dangerous radicals who should break the rules.

    So look in the mirror if you want to see the guilty men.
This discussion has been closed.