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The Truss premiership gets more impressive with each passing day – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,014
edited December 2023 in General
The Truss premiership gets more impressive with each passing day – politicalbetting.com

Every PM since 1970 has been defeated at least once in the Commons. Except for Liz Truss.

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  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,358
    edited December 2023
    Apologies for the lack of depth on today's threads, work has got in the way.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938
    In the last 70 years, only one Prime Minister has "had" two Monarchs: Liz Truss.

    Or... in the last 500 years, only one Prime Minister has truly looked like a rabbit caught in headlights: Liz Truss.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938
    edited December 2023
    Sandpit said:

    The European Commission is set to recommend delaying tariffs on electric cars traded with the UK by three years, according to people familiar with the matter.

    Under current post-Brexit arrangements to be phased in from Jan. 1, EVs moving between the UK and the European Union would attract a 10% duty if less than 45% of their value comes from the region.


    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-05/eu-set-to-propose-three-year-delay-to-tariffs-on-uk-ev-trade

    The much bigger issue is:
    Under current post-Brexit arrangements to be phased in from Jan. 1, EVs moving between the the European Union and the UK would attract a 10% duty if less than 45% of their value comes from the region.
    That's standard "Rules of Origin", no? Meant to prevent companies from avoiding tariffs via importing from (say) China on an FTA, rebadging, and exporting again.

    I made a video about it at some point.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859
    edited December 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    The European Commission is set to recommend delaying tariffs on electric cars traded with the UK by three years, according to people familiar with the matter.

    Under current post-Brexit arrangements to be phased in from Jan. 1, EVs moving between the UK and the European Union would attract a 10% duty if less than 45% of their value comes from the region.


    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-05/eu-set-to-propose-three-year-delay-to-tariffs-on-uk-ev-trade

    The much bigger issue is:
    Under current post-Brexit arrangements to be phased in from Jan. 1, EVs moving between the the European Union and the UK would attract a 10% duty if less than 45% of their value comes from the region.
    That's standard "Rules of Origin", no? Meant to prevent companies from avoiding tariffs via importing from (say) China on an FTA, rebadging, and exporting again.

    I made a video about it at some point.
    Yes, but the difference is that this time it’s the EU trying to drop the tarrifs to hold up UK sales, whereas in every other case it’s been the EU massively keen on them to hurt UK sales into the EU.

    They’re all about to have their lunch eaten by BYD and MG.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,980
    Hardly surprising as Truss is the only PM not even to have a Queen’s or King’s speech setting out her legislative agenda to Parliament. Her Premiership didn’t last long enough to lose votes on Bills in the Commons
  • Options
    "Every PM since 1970 has been defeated at least once in the Commons. Except for Liz Truss."

    She was defeated by a lettuce though.

    And the Queen died on her watch.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859
    HYUFD said:

    Hardly surprising as Truss is the only PM not even to have a Queen’s or King’s speech setting out her legislative agenda to Parliament. Her Premiership didn’t last long enough to lose votes on Bills in the Commons

    Something for which half the Tory MPs are likely to pay with their own seats at the next election.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    In the last 70 years, only one Prime Minister has "had" two Monarchs: Liz Truss.

    Or... in the last 500 years, only one Prime Minister has truly looked like a rabbit caught in headlights: Liz Truss.

    Imagine being poor old QE2: your first PM is Winston Churchill, your last PM is Liz Truss. That's quite a downwards trend. No wonder she died.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    The European Commission is set to recommend delaying tariffs on electric cars traded with the UK by three years, according to people familiar with the matter.

    Under current post-Brexit arrangements to be phased in from Jan. 1, EVs moving between the UK and the European Union would attract a 10% duty if less than 45% of their value comes from the region.


    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-05/eu-set-to-propose-three-year-delay-to-tariffs-on-uk-ev-trade

    The much bigger issue is:
    Under current post-Brexit arrangements to be phased in from Jan. 1, EVs moving between the the European Union and the UK would attract a 10% duty if less than 45% of their value comes from the region.
    That's standard "Rules of Origin", no? Meant to prevent companies from avoiding tariffs via importing from (say) China on an FTA, rebadging, and exporting again.

    I made a video about it at some point.
    Yes, but the difference is that this time it’s the EU trying to drop the tarrifs to hold up UK sales, whereas in every other case it’s been the EU massively keen on them to hurt UK sales into the EU.

    They’re all about to have their lunch eaten by BYD and MG.
    BYD's growth outside China has been very impressive... and I'm sure it will end up with a decent share of the European auto market, in the same way that the Japanese makers established a share in the 70s and 80s. But I'm less convinced it's going to end up with the European makers getting completely hammered. As in the US, the dealer networks are an incredible advantage to incumbents, because they effectively fund automakers: borrowing cash to buy inventory.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Apologies for the lack of depth on today's threads, work has got in the way.

    No problem. But this is the third thread on Truss in the last couple of days. Is something brewing?

    Soon, she'll have more headers on PB about her than the number of days she served as PM.
    Shes on her way to being a national treasure
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,980
    edited December 2023

    rcs1000 said:

    In the last 70 years, only one Prime Minister has "had" two Monarchs: Liz Truss.

    Or... in the last 500 years, only one Prime Minister has truly looked like a rabbit caught in headlights: Liz Truss.

    Imagine being poor old QE2: your first PM is Winston Churchill, your last PM is Liz Truss. That's quite a downwards trend. No wonder she died.
    Whereas KCIII’s first PM was Truss so who knows what titan we will have as PM in the final year of his reign?

    Churchill and Truss had one thing in common though, they were both Liberals before they became Conservatives
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,532

    Apologies for the lack of depth on today's threads, work has got in the way.

    No problem. But this is the third thread on Truss in the last couple of days. Is something brewing?

    Soon, she'll have more headers on PB about her than the number of days she served as PM.
    Shes on her way to being a national treasure
    So we could ask Greece if they'd like Truss instead of the Elgin Marbles?
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Apologies for the lack of depth on today's threads, work has got in the way.

    No problem. But this is the third thread on Truss in the last couple of days. Is something brewing?

    Soon, she'll have more headers on PB about her than the number of days she served as PM.
    Shes on her way to being a national treasure
    So we could ask Greece if they'd like Truss instead of the Elgin Marbles?
    WE should return the Elgin Marbles to their legal owners at the time and give them back to Turkey
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,949
    Strange pub quiz question about a PM you don’t instantly know the answer to

    9times out of 10 Liz Truss will be the answer
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,949
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    In the last 70 years, only one Prime Minister has "had" two Monarchs: Liz Truss.

    Or... in the last 500 years, only one Prime Minister has truly looked like a rabbit caught in headlights: Liz Truss.

    Imagine being poor old QE2: your first PM is Winston Churchill, your last PM is Liz Truss. That's quite a downwards trend. No wonder she died.
    Whereas KCIII’s first PM was Truss so who knows what titan we will have as PM in the final year of his reign?

    Churchill and Truss had one thing in common though, they were both Liberals before they became Conservatives
    Starmer doesn’t exactly have a high benchmark to beat
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,279

    Apologies for the lack of depth on today's threads, work has got in the way.

    No problem. But this is the third thread on Truss in the last couple of days. Is something brewing?

    Soon, she'll have more headers on PB about her than the number of days she served as PM.
    Shes on her way to being a national treasure
    So we could ask Greece if they'd like Truss instead of the Elgin Marbles?
    Interestingly the BBC this morning called them "historical artefacts" or somesuch. No mention of Lord Elgin.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    The European Commission is set to recommend delaying tariffs on electric cars traded with the UK by three years, according to people familiar with the matter.

    Under current post-Brexit arrangements to be phased in from Jan. 1, EVs moving between the UK and the European Union would attract a 10% duty if less than 45% of their value comes from the region.


    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-05/eu-set-to-propose-three-year-delay-to-tariffs-on-uk-ev-trade

    The much bigger issue is:
    Under current post-Brexit arrangements to be phased in from Jan. 1, EVs moving between the the European Union and the UK would attract a 10% duty if less than 45% of their value comes from the region.
    That's standard "Rules of Origin", no? Meant to prevent companies from avoiding tariffs via importing from (say) China on an FTA, rebadging, and exporting again.

    I made a video about it at some point.
    Yes, but the difference is that this time it’s the EU trying to drop the tarrifs to hold up UK sales, whereas in every other case it’s been the EU massively keen on them to hurt UK sales into the EU.

    They’re all about to have their lunch eaten by BYD and MG.
    BYD's growth outside China has been very impressive... and I'm sure it will end up with a decent share of the European auto market, in the same way that the Japanese makers established a share in the 70s and 80s. But I'm less convinced it's going to end up with the European makers getting completely hammered. As in the US, the dealer networks are an incredible advantage to incumbents, because they effectively fund automakers: borrowing cash to buy inventory.
    Except that the car dealer industry of the last decade has lived on high list prices but cheap credit, with most new customers only caring about the monthlies - and there’s now no more cheap credit, which could bring the whole house of cards tumbling down for the legacy manufacturers.
  • Options

    Apologies for the lack of depth on today's threads, work has got in the way.

    No problem. But this is the third thread on Truss in the last couple of days. Is something brewing?

    Soon, she'll have more headers on PB about her than the number of days she served as PM.
    I love a geeky stat and this one tickled me.

    My current favourite stat is that only one person born after the end of WWI has led Labour to a general election victory.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,698

    Apologies for the lack of depth on today's threads, work has got in the way.

    No problem. But this is the third thread on Truss in the last couple of days. Is something brewing?

    Soon, she'll have more headers on PB about her than the number of days she served as PM.
    Shes on her way to being a national treasure
    Nothing the British like more than a noble loser. Eddie the Eagle, Tim Henman, Truss
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,532

    Apologies for the lack of depth on today's threads, work has got in the way.

    No problem. But this is the third thread on Truss in the last couple of days. Is something brewing?

    Soon, she'll have more headers on PB about her than the number of days she served as PM.
    I love a geeky stat and this one tickled me.

    My current favourite stat is that only one person born after the end of WWI has led Labour to a general election victory.
    You'll be able to double that number within a year or so.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859
    TOPPING said:

    Apologies for the lack of depth on today's threads, work has got in the way.

    No problem. But this is the third thread on Truss in the last couple of days. Is something brewing?

    Soon, she'll have more headers on PB about her than the number of days she served as PM.
    Shes on her way to being a national treasure
    So we could ask Greece if they'd like Truss instead of the Elgin Marbles?
    Interestingly the BBC this morning called them "historical artefacts" or somesuch. No mention of Lord Elgin.
    “Elgin” is now non-PC, in the minds of the woke at the BBC primarily a description of their thief rather than their origin.
  • Options

    Apologies for the lack of depth on today's threads, work has got in the way.

    No problem. But this is the third thread on Truss in the last couple of days. Is something brewing?

    Soon, she'll have more headers on PB about her than the number of days she served as PM.
    Shes on her way to being a national treasure
    So we could ask Greece if they'd like Truss instead of the Elgin Marbles?
    WE should return the Elgin Marbles to their legal owners at the time and give them back to Turkey
    I refuse to call Turkey by their new name of "Türkiye" whilst they still call us "Birleşik Krallık", or the full name "Büyük Britanya ve Kuzey İrlanda Birleşik Krallığı".

    https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birleşik_Krallık
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Apologies for the lack of depth on today's threads, work has got in the way.

    No problem. But this is the third thread on Truss in the last couple of days. Is something brewing?

    Soon, she'll have more headers on PB about her than the number of days she served as PM.
    Shes on her way to being a national treasure
    So we could ask Greece if they'd like Truss instead of the Elgin Marbles?
    WE should return the Elgin Marbles to their legal owners at the time and give them back to Turkey
    I refuse to call Turkey by their new name of "Türkiye" whilst they still call us "Birleşik Krallık", or the full name "Büyük Britanya ve Kuzey İrlanda Birleşik Krallığı".

    https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birleşik_Krallık
    Just wait until you have to call India Bharat
  • Options

    Apologies for the lack of depth on today's threads, work has got in the way.

    No problem. But this is the third thread on Truss in the last couple of days. Is something brewing?

    Soon, she'll have more headers on PB about her than the number of days she served as PM.
    Shes on her way to being a national treasure
    So we could ask Greece if they'd like Truss instead of the Elgin Marbles?
    WE should return the Elgin Marbles to their legal owners at the time and give them back to Turkey
    I refuse to call Turkey by their new name of "Türkiye" whilst they still call us "Birleşik Krallık", or the full name "Büyük Britanya ve Kuzey İrlanda Birleşik Krallığı".

    https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birleşik_Krallık
    Just wait until you have to call India Bharat
    At least the name in the King's is still "India"!
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Apologies for the lack of depth on today's threads, work has got in the way.

    No problem. But this is the third thread on Truss in the last couple of days. Is something brewing?

    Soon, she'll have more headers on PB about her than the number of days she served as PM.
    Shes on her way to being a national treasure
    So we could ask Greece if they'd like Truss instead of the Elgin Marbles?
    Interestingly the BBC this morning called them "historical artefacts" or somesuch. No mention of Lord Elgin.
    “Elgin” is now non-PC, in the minds of the woke at the BBC primarily a description of their thief rather than their origin.
    I'm fairly sure he didn't carve them.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,359

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Apologies for the lack of depth on today's threads, work has got in the way.

    No problem. But this is the third thread on Truss in the last couple of days. Is something brewing?

    Soon, she'll have more headers on PB about her than the number of days she served as PM.
    Shes on her way to being a national treasure
    So we could ask Greece if they'd like Truss instead of the Elgin Marbles?
    Interestingly the BBC this morning called them "historical artefacts" or somesuch. No mention of Lord Elgin.
    “Elgin” is now non-PC, in the minds of the woke at the BBC primarily a description of their thief rather than their origin.
    I'm fairly sure he didn't carve them.
    Nor did the Parthenon.
  • Options

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Apologies for the lack of depth on today's threads, work has got in the way.

    No problem. But this is the third thread on Truss in the last couple of days. Is something brewing?

    Soon, she'll have more headers on PB about her than the number of days she served as PM.
    Shes on her way to being a national treasure
    So we could ask Greece if they'd like Truss instead of the Elgin Marbles?
    Interestingly the BBC this morning called them "historical artefacts" or somesuch. No mention of Lord Elgin.
    “Elgin” is now non-PC, in the minds of the woke at the BBC primarily a description of their thief rather than their origin.
    I'm fairly sure he didn't carve them.
    Nor did the Parthenon.
    The people wot built the Parthenon carved the Marbles.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,476
    DougSeal said:

    Are all these threads about Truss like some sort of Bat Signal to get me to post? A "Seal Signal" if you like? Can't you simply project a stylised silhouette of a seal from a searchlight onto the skies and buildings of Britain in the approved manner? I will return when needed. Just like Liz Truss.

    You have my Seal of Approval.
  • Options
    viewcode said:

    Apologies for the lack of depth on today's threads, work has got in the way.

    No problem. But this is the third thread on Truss in the last couple of days. Is something brewing?

    Soon, she'll have more headers on PB about her than the number of days she served as PM.
    Shes on her way to being a national treasure
    Nothing the British like more than a noble loser. Eddie the Eagle, Tim Henman, Truss
    Although she didn't actually lose as she never fought an election (bar a handful of local by-elections). And certainly didn't do so nobly.

    It's fine to be a loser in Britain as long as you do so in something that (1) doesn't matter very much, (2) we never do well in anyway - although there's a rider there that it's OK to lose in something we do do well (or we think we do), as long as you greatly exceed general expectations, and (3) you don't make an idiot of yourself in the process, unless it's a joke which you're in on.

    Truss fails on all three.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,476
    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

  • Options

    Apologies for the lack of depth on today's threads, work has got in the way.

    No problem. But this is the third thread on Truss in the last couple of days. Is something brewing?

    Soon, she'll have more headers on PB about her than the number of days she served as PM.
    Shes on her way to being a national treasure
    Correction: Liz Trump already well-established as national fool's gold.

    Or national costume jewelry? Lett'uce debate!
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,253
    edited December 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    In the last 70 years, only one Prime Minister has "had" two Monarchs: Liz Truss.

    Or... in the last 500 years, only one Prime Minister has truly looked like a rabbit caught in headlights: Liz Truss.

    Or… only one PM has had the monarch die of shock on their watch…

    Which is a bit mean, as pretty much the only payoff we got from the Truss premiership was saving us from being led by that lying smirking clown at such a somber and tragic national moment.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,476
    BREAKING !!

    Doug Burgum drops out of presidential race.

    (Actually a good 18 hours ago, but no one noticed.)
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    In the last 70 years, only one Prime Minister has "had" two Monarchs: Liz Truss.

    Or... in the last 500 years, only one Prime Minister has truly looked like a rabbit caught in headlights: Liz Truss.

    Imagine being poor old QE2: your first PM is Winston Churchill, your last PM is Liz Truss. That's quite a downwards trend. No wonder she died.
    Whereas KCIII’s first PM was Truss so who knows what titan we will have as PM in the final year of his reign?

    Churchill and Truss had one thing in common though, they were both Liberals before they became Conservatives
    Good point. I'm struggling to think of any other notable points of similarity, though.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,476

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    In the last 70 years, only one Prime Minister has "had" two Monarchs: Liz Truss.

    Or... in the last 500 years, only one Prime Minister has truly looked like a rabbit caught in headlights: Liz Truss.

    Imagine being poor old QE2: your first PM is Winston Churchill, your last PM is Liz Truss. That's quite a downwards trend. No wonder she died.
    Whereas KCIII’s first PM was Truss so who knows what titan we will have as PM in the final year of his reign?

    Churchill and Truss had one thing in common though, they were both Liberals before they became Conservatives
    Good point. I'm struggling to think of any other notable points of similarity, though.
    Neither was particularly bothered by criticism.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,162
    Truss is sui genderbus no question. She stands alone in so many ways.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    There's an interesting theory that what people are perceiving as a bad economy is actually just an effect of decreasing inequality. People below them are doing better, and they don't like it because it makes them feel relatively poorer.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    Talking of Truss, what do they do with the personalised lectern after a PM stands down?

    Is it given to them as a memento, or are they all kept in a cupboard in Downing Street?
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    In the last 70 years, only one Prime Minister has "had" two Monarchs: Liz Truss.

    Or... in the last 500 years, only one Prime Minister has truly looked like a rabbit caught in headlights: Liz Truss.

    Imagine being poor old QE2: your first PM is Winston Churchill, your last PM is Liz Truss. That's quite a downwards trend. No wonder she died.
    Whereas KCIII’s first PM was Truss so who knows what titan we will have as PM in the final year of his reign?

    Churchill and Truss had one thing in common though, they were both Liberals before they became Conservatives
    Although Churchill was a Conservative before he became a Liberal - ref his comment on re-ratting.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,162
    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    Median wealth up 37% is quite a stat. That's saying the average American has got richer by over a third in the last 3 years?
  • Options
    Truss did, of course, have a certain amount of local difficulty right at the end with the fracking vote - a three-line whip which she'd positioned as a vote of confidence but ended up losing 40 MPs and two whips over.

    BUT... she got her way by 326 votes to 230 - a stonking majority.

    That shows her unparalleled political skills. There's no Commons vote you can't win if you have Therese Coffey kneeing your MPs in the back and Jacob Rees-Mogg threatening to talk to them on your behalf.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    Yet its all based on borrowing, which has to be paid back
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,162
    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Apologies for the lack of depth on today's threads, work has got in the way.

    No problem. But this is the third thread on Truss in the last couple of days. Is something brewing?

    Soon, she'll have more headers on PB about her than the number of days she served as PM.
    Shes on her way to being a national treasure
    So we could ask Greece if they'd like Truss instead of the Elgin Marbles?
    Interestingly the BBC this morning called them "historical artefacts" or somesuch. No mention of Lord Elgin.
    “Elgin” is now non-PC, in the minds of the woke at the BBC primarily a description of their thief rather than their origin.
    That's better though isn't it. It wasn't the Noye gold, it was the Brinks Mat gold.
  • Options

    Talking of Truss, what do they do with the personalised lectern after a PM stands down?

    Is it given to them as a memento, or are they all kept in a cupboard in Downing Street?

    There was an FoI request on this at the time. The answer was thus:
    ---

    17 November 2022

    Dear Mr Wareing

    Our ref: FOI2022/15165

    Thank you for your email of 20 October in which you make a request under the
    Freedom of Information Act 2000. Your full request is attached.

    The Act provides a requester with access to recorded information held by a
    public authority. It does not require a public authority to create information in
    order to respond to a request, answer a question, provide comment etc.

    Government lecterns are used regularly by Ministers for press conferences and
    speeches.

    In recent years, some have been provided by CCHQ (the governing party) and
    some are Government owned. Their use depends on the event.

    Previous lecterns continue to be used and repurposed in other Government
    buildings.

    There is no specific budget.


    Yours sincerely

    NICHOLAS HOWARD
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    The European Commission is set to recommend delaying tariffs on electric cars traded with the UK by three years, according to people familiar with the matter.

    Under current post-Brexit arrangements to be phased in from Jan. 1, EVs moving between the UK and the European Union would attract a 10% duty if less than 45% of their value comes from the region.


    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-05/eu-set-to-propose-three-year-delay-to-tariffs-on-uk-ev-trade

    The much bigger issue is:
    Under current post-Brexit arrangements to be phased in from Jan. 1, EVs moving between the the European Union and the UK would attract a 10% duty if less than 45% of their value comes from the region.
    That's standard "Rules of Origin", no? Meant to prevent companies from avoiding tariffs via importing from (say) China on an FTA, rebadging, and exporting again.

    I made a video about it at some point.
    Yes, but the difference is that this time it’s the EU trying to drop the tarrifs to hold up UK sales, whereas in every other case it’s been the EU massively keen on them to hurt UK sales into the EU.

    They’re all about to have their lunch eaten by BYD and MG.
    BYD's growth outside China has been very impressive... and I'm sure it will end up with a decent share of the European auto market, in the same way that the Japanese makers established a share in the 70s and 80s. But I'm less convinced it's going to end up with the European makers getting completely hammered. As in the US, the dealer networks are an incredible advantage to incumbents, because they effectively fund automakers: borrowing cash to buy inventory.
    Except that the car dealer industry of the last decade has lived on high list prices but cheap credit, with most new customers only caring about the monthlies - and there’s now no more cheap credit, which could bring the whole house of cards tumbling down for the legacy manufacturers.
    Low rates have certainly propped up consumer demand for vehicles.

    My point was a slightly different one.

    Simply, it's easy to forget how big a deal auto dealerships are. For example: 20% of Americans in the top 0.1% of earners are auto dealer owners!

    This has a couple of consequences. Firstly, dealers are big political donors, and that means there is a lot of anti direct-sales legislation in both the US and Europe. Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, it means that legacy auto makers don't have to fund working capital, because dealers borrow from local banks.

    This second one is the key one, especially if you want to build cars in China, and then sell them direct in Europe. The automaker will have a four or five month gap between buying components and the like, and receiving cash from customers. Rapid growth, therefore, requires borrowing lots and lots of borrowing.

    BYD has recognized this challenge. They have dealer networks in Asia (Sime Darby in Singapore, for example). They have announced they are building one out in Germany. But this takes some time. (You need to find local entrepreneurs, who need to have credit with the bank, etc.) But this means that the pace of market share growth is limited.

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938

    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    Yet its all based on borrowing, which has to be paid back
    Americans are unhappy because they all owe loads on their homes, and interest rates have risen.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938

    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    There's an interesting theory that what people are perceiving as a bad economy is actually just an effect of decreasing inequality. People below them are doing better, and they don't like it because it makes them feel relatively poorer.
    Could I have a source for that, because economic growth combined with falling inequality should mean that people in the middle and lower-middle should be doing extremely well on an absolute basis.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,939
    T


    R


    U


    S


    S


    There can be only one.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,162

    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    Yet its all based on borrowing, which has to be paid back
    But that's not US specific. Eg we're drowning in debt but lack the oomph.
  • Options
    eek said:

    Strange pub quiz question about a PM you don’t instantly know the answer to

    9times out of 10 Liz Truss will be the answer

    I'd be interested to know if you'd be allowed to do a Mastermind specialist subject on the Premiership of Elizabeth Truss. I assume it'd be acceptable for any other PM of the past 150 years or so, but they'd draw the line somewhere.
  • Options

    eek said:

    Strange pub quiz question about a PM you don’t instantly know the answer to

    9times out of 10 Liz Truss will be the answer

    I'd be interested to know if you'd be allowed to do a Mastermind specialist subject on the Premiership of Elizabeth Truss. I assume it'd be acceptable for any other PM of the past 150 years or so, but they'd draw the line somewhere.
    I've only just started but we have to finish
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    Yet its all based on borrowing, which has to be paid back
    But that's not US specific. Eg we're drowning in debt but lack the oomph.
    Of course but the USA is way beyond the UK in its debt drowning. Its difficult to see how they can continue as they are.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,358
    edited December 2023

    eek said:

    Strange pub quiz question about a PM you don’t instantly know the answer to

    9times out of 10 Liz Truss will be the answer

    I'd be interested to know if you'd be allowed to do a Mastermind specialist subject on the Premiership of Elizabeth Truss. I assume it'd be acceptable for any other PM of the past 150 years or so, but they'd draw the line somewhere.
    Only if it was done in The Two Ronnies style.

    https://youtu.be/y0C59pI_ypQ?si=RwJZBi1_BVc_qsKR
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    There's an interesting theory that what people are perceiving as a bad economy is actually just an effect of decreasing inequality. People below them are doing better, and they don't like it because it makes them feel relatively poorer.
    Could I have a source for that, because economic growth combined with falling inequality should mean that people in the middle and lower-middle should be doing extremely well on an absolute basis.
    That's the point. They might be doing well on an absolute basis, but if conveniences that depend on access to cheap labour are scarcer (because those people's incomes have gone up even more in percentage terms) then they won't feel it.

    https://x.com/arindube/status/1730702029603901663

    Bidenomics has also created strong wage growth-esp for working class families-that has outpaced inflation, by supporting a tight labor market through policy.

    This real wage growth for the bottom and middle income Americans has led to a historic reduction in wage inequality.


    image
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,767

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    Yet its all based on borrowing, which has to be paid back
    But that's not US specific. Eg we're drowning in debt but lack the oomph.
    Of course but the USA is way beyond the UK in its debt drowning. Its difficult to see how they can continue as they are.
    Of course, such thoughts have been aired for a very long time. The only way out (in my view) is to print money to pay off the bulk of the debt, but that has to be done very slowly, and it's no good trying to borrow any more while you're doing it.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    Yet its all based on borrowing, which has to be paid back
    But that's not US specific. Eg we're drowning in debt but lack the oomph.
    Of course but the USA is way beyond the UK in its debt drowning. Its difficult to see how they can continue as they are.
    Of course, such thoughts have been aired for a very long time. The only way out (in my view) is to print money to pay off the bulk of the debt, but that has to be done very slowly, and it's no good trying to borrow any more while you're doing it.
    It has the feel of everything is ok until it isnt
  • Options

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    Yet its all based on borrowing, which has to be paid back
    But that's not US specific. Eg we're drowning in debt but lack the oomph.
    Of course but the USA is way beyond the UK in its debt drowning. Its difficult to see how they can continue as they are.
    Trump will default.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    There's an interesting theory that what people are perceiving as a bad economy is actually just an effect of decreasing inequality. People below them are doing better, and they don't like it because it makes them feel relatively poorer.
    Could I have a source for that, because economic growth combined with falling inequality should mean that people in the middle and lower-middle should be doing extremely well on an absolute basis.
    That's the point. They might be doing well on an absolute basis, but if conveniences that depend on access to cheap labour are scarcer (because those people's incomes have gone up even more in percentage terms) then they won't feel it.

    https://x.com/arindube/status/1730702029603901663

    Bidenomics has also created strong wage growth-esp for working class families-that has outpaced inflation, by supporting a tight labor market through policy.

    This real wage growth for the bottom and middle income Americans has led to a historic reduction in wage inequality.


    image
    OK, let me rephrase.

    Do Americans perceive the economy as weak because - although their income have risen - so have mortgage and car payments? Or because inequality has declined?

    Is there any evidence that it is the latter?
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    Yet its all based on borrowing, which has to be paid back
    But that's not US specific. Eg we're drowning in debt but lack the oomph.
    Of course but the USA is way beyond the UK in its debt drowning. Its difficult to see how they can continue as they are.
    Trump will default.
    He has to get elected first
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    Yet its all based on borrowing, which has to be paid back
    But that's not US specific. Eg we're drowning in debt but lack the oomph.
    Of course but the USA is way beyond the UK in its debt drowning. Its difficult to see how they can continue as they are.
    Household debt to GDP by country (2021):

    Germany: 56.68% of GDP
    United States: 78.03% of GDP
    Australia: 119.32% of GDP
    Canada: 107.49% of GDP
    United Kingdom: 86.11% of GDP
    France: 66.61% of GDP​​.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,530
    Liz Truss never lost an election.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,767

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    Yet its all based on borrowing, which has to be paid back
    But that's not US specific. Eg we're drowning in debt but lack the oomph.
    Of course but the USA is way beyond the UK in its debt drowning. Its difficult to see how they can continue as they are.
    Of course, such thoughts have been aired for a very long time. The only way out (in my view) is to print money to pay off the bulk of the debt, but that has to be done very slowly, and it's no good trying to borrow any more while you're doing it.
    It has the feel of everything is ok until it isnt
    Yes I agree. However there's little motivation for any large group to burst the bubble. In part the fact that all of this debt is securitised helps defend the status quo. And anyway with a failure of government debt you can't trust money either. Banknotes are just 0% interest securities.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,162

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    Yet its all based on borrowing, which has to be paid back
    But that's not US specific. Eg we're drowning in debt but lack the oomph.
    Of course but the USA is way beyond the UK in its debt drowning. Its difficult to see how they can continue as they are.
    I wouldn't say 'way' beyond.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938
    Andy_JS said:

    Liz Truss never lost an election.

    Except of Conservative MPs.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,767
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    Yet its all based on borrowing, which has to be paid back
    But that's not US specific. Eg we're drowning in debt but lack the oomph.
    Of course but the USA is way beyond the UK in its debt drowning. Its difficult to see how they can continue as they are.
    I wouldn't say 'way' beyond.
    At least half a fair chalk?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,476
    .
    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    Yet its all based on borrowing, which has to be paid back
    But that's not US specific. Eg we're drowning in debt but lack the oomph.
    Of course but the USA is way beyond the UK in its debt drowning. Its difficult to see how they can continue as they are.
    Household debt to GDP by country (2021):

    Germany: 56.68% of GDP
    United States: 78.03% of GDP
    Australia: 119.32% of GDP
    Canada: 107.49% of GDP
    United Kingdom: 86.11% of GDP
    France: 66.61% of GDP​​.
    And, of course, if your economy is growing at 5%, debt is slightly less of a problem than at 0.5%.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,530
    Disappointment for a lot of Frasier fans.

    "Willie Ross Jr. Knee Deep
    @RossKneeDeep

    I am thoroughly disappointed by this. In an interview, Kelsey Grammer has said he still supports Donald Trump and will back him to be President again in 2024. I had no idea he was a Trump fan."

    https://twitter.com/RossKneeDeep/status/1732007822823412122
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,767
    Andy_JS said:

    Liz Truss never lost an election.

    Didn't have lots of Downing St redecorations either.
  • Options

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    Yet its all based on borrowing, which has to be paid back
    But that's not US specific. Eg we're drowning in debt but lack the oomph.
    Of course but the USA is way beyond the UK in its debt drowning. Its difficult to see how they can continue as they are.
    Trump will default.
    He has to get elected first
    True. But if he does, he probably will.

    And I think it's more likely than not that between election shenanigans, procedural abuse, a lack of energy from Biden and a load of abuse from Trump, he will win.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936
    Andy_JS said:

    Liz Truss never lost an election.

    She also never faced a confidence vote.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,162
    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    Yet its all based on borrowing, which has to be paid back
    But that's not US specific. Eg we're drowning in debt but lack the oomph.
    Of course but the USA is way beyond the UK in its debt drowning. Its difficult to see how they can continue as they are.
    Of course, such thoughts have been aired for a very long time. The only way out (in my view) is to print money to pay off the bulk of the debt, but that has to be done very slowly, and it's no good trying to borrow any more while you're doing it.
    That gigantic military spend of theirs could be flexed downwards a little without the world caving in, I'd have thought.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,148
    Andy_JS said:

    Disappointment for a lot of Frasier fans.

    "Willie Ross Jr. Knee Deep
    @RossKneeDeep

    I am thoroughly disappointed by this. In an interview, Kelsey Grammer has said he still supports Donald Trump and will back him to be President again in 2024. I had no idea he was a Trump fan."

    https://twitter.com/RossKneeDeep/status/1732007822823412122

    Why would a Frasier fan be disappointed by what one of the actors thinks? I don't care. I laugh at the comedy. Its simple.
  • Options
    dis-(or rather en-)couraging news re: a PB favorite:

    NYT ($) Some Republicans Have a Blunt Message for Chris Christie: Drop Out

    Several anti-Trump Republican donors and strategists are pushing Mr. Christie to end his presidential campaign and back Nikki Haley.

    Chris Christie, the former governor of New Jersey, has traveled the world in his quest to stop Donald J. Trump’s march to the Republican nomination. In New Hampshire living rooms as well as the charred homes of Israeli families killed by Hamas, he has assailed the former president as being unfit to lead, antidemocratic and an aspiring dictator.

    But now, six months into Mr. Christie’s presidential primary bid, Republicans who share his goal of defeating Mr. Trump are suggesting an entirely different approach for the long-shot candidate.

    Quitting.

    Republican donors, strategists and pundits are publicly pressuring Mr. Christie to follow the lead of Tim Scott and Mike Pence and formally end his campaign. Many would like him to throw his support behind Nikki Haley, the former South Carolina governor who has risen in the polls in early-voting states in recent weeks.

    The focus on Mr. Christie’s bid reflects the anxiety that has consumed anti-Trump Republicans as the race moves into the final weeks before the Iowa caucuses on Jan. 15. Despite three debates, tens of millions of dollars and many months of campaigning, none of the six candidates still challenging Mr. Trump have made much of a dent in his double-digit lead. And they are rapidly running out of time.

    . . . Sarah Longwell, a Republican strategist who has spent years working to defeat Mr. Trump [said] “The main thing that Christie could do to make a difference [in 2024] is to drop out.” . . .

    Mr. Christie has run a relatively low-budget campaign, powered by a small staff and frequent television appearances. He has largely ignored Iowa to burrow into New Hampshire, a state where independent voters can cast ballots in the primary. Mr. Christie has made an aggressive push for those voters, who are more open to his anti-Trump message. This fall, organizations aligned with his campaign ran ads urging Democrats in the state to become “undeclared” voters and back his bid.

    But as the deadline to switch party registration has passed, Mr. Christie has shown signs of weakness. In recent weeks, he has barely cracked 10 percent in polling in New Hampshire. It remains unclear whether he will be on the ballot in every state. Last week, officials said he had failed to collect enough signatures to qualify to be on the ballot in Maine. Mr. Christie plans to appeal the ruling. . . .

    SSI - Sooner that the Great Gasbag of the Pine Barrens drops out of the 2024 race, the better . . . though NOT for Donald Trump.

  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936
    kinabalu said:

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    Yet its all based on borrowing, which has to be paid back
    But that's not US specific. Eg we're drowning in debt but lack the oomph.
    Of course but the USA is way beyond the UK in its debt drowning. Its difficult to see how they can continue as they are.
    Of course, such thoughts have been aired for a very long time. The only way out (in my view) is to print money to pay off the bulk of the debt, but that has to be done very slowly, and it's no good trying to borrow any more while you're doing it.
    That gigantic military spend of theirs could be flexed downwards a little without the world caving in, I'd have thought.
    Lol. Have you seen the state of the world at present?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,162
    Andy_JS said:

    Disappointment for a lot of Frasier fans.

    "Willie Ross Jr. Knee Deep
    @RossKneeDeep

    I am thoroughly disappointed by this. In an interview, Kelsey Grammer has said he still supports Donald Trump and will back him to be President again in 2024. I had no idea he was a Trump fan."

    https://twitter.com/RossKneeDeep/status/1732007822823412122

    Something about that show always felt a bit 'off' and now I know what it was.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,120
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938
    Andy_JS said:

    Disappointment for a lot of Frasier fans.

    "Willie Ross Jr. Knee Deep
    @RossKneeDeep

    I am thoroughly disappointed by this. In an interview, Kelsey Grammer has said he still supports Donald Trump and will back him to be President again in 2024. I had no idea he was a Trump fan."

    https://twitter.com/RossKneeDeep/status/1732007822823412122

    While I'm no Trump fan, people are free to have their own political beliefs.

    (That said, the new Frasier is painfully unfunny.)
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,162
    Mortimer said:

    kinabalu said:

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    Yet its all based on borrowing, which has to be paid back
    But that's not US specific. Eg we're drowning in debt but lack the oomph.
    Of course but the USA is way beyond the UK in its debt drowning. Its difficult to see how they can continue as they are.
    Of course, such thoughts have been aired for a very long time. The only way out (in my view) is to print money to pay off the bulk of the debt, but that has to be done very slowly, and it's no good trying to borrow any more while you're doing it.
    That gigantic military spend of theirs could be flexed downwards a little without the world caving in, I'd have thought.
    Lol. Have you seen the state of the world at present?
    Yes. And I've seen their defense budget.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,162

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    Yet its all based on borrowing, which has to be paid back
    But that's not US specific. Eg we're drowning in debt but lack the oomph.
    Of course but the USA is way beyond the UK in its debt drowning. Its difficult to see how they can continue as they are.
    Trump will default.
    He has to get elected first
    True. But if he does, he probably will.

    And I think it's more likely than not that between election shenanigans, procedural abuse, a lack of energy from Biden and a load of abuse from Trump, he will win.
    You and I are the poles on this. He's 2.6. You think he should be odds on. I'd want 5.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,636
    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Disappointment for a lot of Frasier fans.

    "Willie Ross Jr. Knee Deep
    @RossKneeDeep

    I am thoroughly disappointed by this. In an interview, Kelsey Grammer has said he still supports Donald Trump and will back him to be President again in 2024. I had no idea he was a Trump fan."

    https://twitter.com/RossKneeDeep/status/1732007822823412122

    Something about that show always felt a bit 'off' and now I know what it was.
    We used to enjoy it - particularly loved the way Grammer played the 'lefty liberal with more than a hint of hypocrisy' character. Hard to believe he was all the while a raving alt-righter.

    I can never watch it now.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,117
    I only hope you realise how many people there are in the Tory party crazy enough to take that headline at face value.
  • Options
    Andy_JS said:

    Disappointment for a lot of Frasier fans.

    "Willie Ross Jr. Knee Deep
    @RossKneeDeep

    I am thoroughly disappointed by this. In an interview, Kelsey Grammer has said he still supports Donald Trump and will back him to be President again in 2024. I had no idea he was a Trump fan."

    https://twitter.com/RossKneeDeep/status/1732007822823412122

    Kelsey Grammer well-known as long-time right-wing wack-job.

    Which, speaking as a far-out woke-job, takes away NOTHING from his comedic genius.

    When he's got a decent script, that is. When he don't, he suffers. As with last seasons of "Frasier" (dreck).

    BTW, here in Seattle the el cheapo geezer broadcast channel provides two hours of Frasier reruns every weekday.

    Which highlights the quality gap between good episodes (almost all earlier) versus bad (mostly later).

    Also reminds Seattleites just how clueless the show and it's writers (even in better scripts) were about the Emerald City. Which entertained us with chronic mispronunciations of local locales, as well as continually showing barista's taking coffee orders to customers at their table - something I've yet to see in thirty-plus years living in Seattle.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,586
    edited December 2023

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Apologies for the lack of depth on today's threads, work has got in the way.

    No problem. But this is the third thread on Truss in the last couple of days. Is something brewing?

    Soon, she'll have more headers on PB about her than the number of days she served as PM.
    Shes on her way to being a national treasure
    So we could ask Greece if they'd like Truss instead of the Elgin Marbles?
    Interestingly the BBC this morning called them "historical artefacts" or somesuch. No mention of Lord Elgin.
    “Elgin” is now non-PC, in the minds of the woke at the BBC primarily a description of their thief rather than their origin.
    I'm fairly sure he didn't carve them.
    Nor did the Parthenon.
    Er, no, what with it being a building. But the Marbles were part of the Parthenon. They weren’t just found in the Parthenon.

    It was Phidias who was in charge of their production, although he wasn’t doing all the carving himself. He had a team.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Disappointment for a lot of Frasier fans.

    "Willie Ross Jr. Knee Deep
    @RossKneeDeep

    I am thoroughly disappointed by this. In an interview, Kelsey Grammer has said he still supports Donald Trump and will back him to be President again in 2024. I had no idea he was a Trump fan."

    https://twitter.com/RossKneeDeep/status/1732007822823412122

    While I'm no Trump fan, people are free to have their own political beliefs.

    (That said, the new Frasier is painfully unfunny.)
    Due mostly I'm guessing to crap writing. Which (as I just opined) was hallmark of later seasons of Frasier.

    However, that show was able to limp along, because it had become so entrenched with millions and millions of fans worldwide.

    No such luck for retred. Typical of such mis-guided attempts to breath new life into old US TV hits.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,476

    dis-(or rather en-)couraging news re: a PB favorite:

    NYT ($) Some Republicans Have a Blunt Message for Chris Christie: Drop Out

    Several anti-Trump Republican donors and strategists are pushing Mr. Christie to end his presidential campaign and back Nikki Haley.

    Chris Christie, the former governor of New Jersey, has traveled the world in his quest to stop Donald J. Trump’s march to the Republican nomination. In New Hampshire living rooms as well as the charred homes of Israeli families killed by Hamas, he has assailed the former president as being unfit to lead, antidemocratic and an aspiring dictator.

    But now, six months into Mr. Christie’s presidential primary bid, Republicans who share his goal of defeating Mr. Trump are suggesting an entirely different approach for the long-shot candidate.

    Quitting.

    Republican donors, strategists and pundits are publicly pressuring Mr. Christie to follow the lead of Tim Scott and Mike Pence and formally end his campaign. Many would like him to throw his support behind Nikki Haley, the former South Carolina governor who has risen in the polls in early-voting states in recent weeks.

    The focus on Mr. Christie’s bid reflects the anxiety that has consumed anti-Trump Republicans as the race moves into the final weeks before the Iowa caucuses on Jan. 15. Despite three debates, tens of millions of dollars and many months of campaigning, none of the six candidates still challenging Mr. Trump have made much of a dent in his double-digit lead. And they are rapidly running out of time.

    . . . Sarah Longwell, a Republican strategist who has spent years working to defeat Mr. Trump [said] “The main thing that Christie could do to make a difference [in 2024] is to drop out.” . . .

    Mr. Christie has run a relatively low-budget campaign, powered by a small staff and frequent television appearances. He has largely ignored Iowa to burrow into New Hampshire, a state where independent voters can cast ballots in the primary. Mr. Christie has made an aggressive push for those voters, who are more open to his anti-Trump message. This fall, organizations aligned with his campaign ran ads urging Democrats in the state to become “undeclared” voters and back his bid.

    But as the deadline to switch party registration has passed, Mr. Christie has shown signs of weakness. In recent weeks, he has barely cracked 10 percent in polling in New Hampshire. It remains unclear whether he will be on the ballot in every state. Last week, officials said he had failed to collect enough signatures to qualify to be on the ballot in Maine. Mr. Christie plans to appeal the ruling. . . .

    SSI - Sooner that the Great Gasbag of the Pine Barrens drops out of the 2024 race, the better . . . though NOT for Donald Trump.

    He's not going to quit before the next debate, which he has now qualified for.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,698
    Andy_JS said:

    Liz Truss never lost an election.

    Neither did Tony Blair nor Margaret Thatcher nor Anthony Eden
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,253
    edited December 2023
    kinabalu said:

    Mortimer said:

    kinabalu said:

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    Yet its all based on borrowing, which has to be paid back
    But that's not US specific. Eg we're drowning in debt but lack the oomph.
    Of course but the USA is way beyond the UK in its debt drowning. Its difficult to see how they can continue as they are.
    Of course, such thoughts have been aired for a very long time. The only way out (in my view) is to print money to pay off the bulk of the debt, but that has to be done very slowly, and it's no good trying to borrow any more while you're doing it.
    That gigantic military spend of theirs could be flexed downwards a little without the world caving in, I'd have thought.
    Lol. Have you seen the state of the world at present?
    Yes. And I've seen their defense budget.
    But have you seen the amount of money from the defence complex that flows into American politics?

    Have you also seen the way Americans seem indoctrinated to revere their military? Almost regardless of how it behaves.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,586
    Nigelb said:

    dis-(or rather en-)couraging news re: a PB favorite:

    NYT ($) Some Republicans Have a Blunt Message for Chris Christie: Drop Out

    Several anti-Trump Republican donors and strategists are pushing Mr. Christie to end his presidential campaign and back Nikki Haley.

    Chris Christie, the former governor of New Jersey, has traveled the world in his quest to stop Donald J. Trump’s march to the Republican nomination. In New Hampshire living rooms as well as the charred homes of Israeli families killed by Hamas, he has assailed the former president as being unfit to lead, antidemocratic and an aspiring dictator.

    But now, six months into Mr. Christie’s presidential primary bid, Republicans who share his goal of defeating Mr. Trump are suggesting an entirely different approach for the long-shot candidate.

    Quitting.

    Republican donors, strategists and pundits are publicly pressuring Mr. Christie to follow the lead of Tim Scott and Mike Pence and formally end his campaign. Many would like him to throw his support behind Nikki Haley, the former South Carolina governor who has risen in the polls in early-voting states in recent weeks.

    The focus on Mr. Christie’s bid reflects the anxiety that has consumed anti-Trump Republicans as the race moves into the final weeks before the Iowa caucuses on Jan. 15. Despite three debates, tens of millions of dollars and many months of campaigning, none of the six candidates still challenging Mr. Trump have made much of a dent in his double-digit lead. And they are rapidly running out of time.

    . . . Sarah Longwell, a Republican strategist who has spent years working to defeat Mr. Trump [said] “The main thing that Christie could do to make a difference [in 2024] is to drop out.” . . .

    Mr. Christie has run a relatively low-budget campaign, powered by a small staff and frequent television appearances. He has largely ignored Iowa to burrow into New Hampshire, a state where independent voters can cast ballots in the primary. Mr. Christie has made an aggressive push for those voters, who are more open to his anti-Trump message. This fall, organizations aligned with his campaign ran ads urging Democrats in the state to become “undeclared” voters and back his bid.

    But as the deadline to switch party registration has passed, Mr. Christie has shown signs of weakness. In recent weeks, he has barely cracked 10 percent in polling in New Hampshire. It remains unclear whether he will be on the ballot in every state. Last week, officials said he had failed to collect enough signatures to qualify to be on the ballot in Maine. Mr. Christie plans to appeal the ruling. . . .

    SSI - Sooner that the Great Gasbag of the Pine Barrens drops out of the 2024 race, the better . . . though NOT for Donald Trump.

    He's not going to quit before the next debate, which he has now qualified for.
    He should quit in the middle of the debate, just for the lols.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,476
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Disappointment for a lot of Frasier fans.

    "Willie Ross Jr. Knee Deep
    @RossKneeDeep

    I am thoroughly disappointed by this. In an interview, Kelsey Grammer has said he still supports Donald Trump and will back him to be President again in 2024. I had no idea he was a Trump fan."

    https://twitter.com/RossKneeDeep/status/1732007822823412122

    While I'm no Trump fan, people are free to have their own political beliefs.

    (That said, the new Frasier is painfully unfunny.)
    And we are free to form an opinion of them on the basis of those expressed beliefs.

    Anyone who is not unintelligent, and still supports Trump, is more than a bit of an arse.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    edited December 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    There's an interesting theory that what people are perceiving as a bad economy is actually just an effect of decreasing inequality. People below them are doing better, and they don't like it because it makes them feel relatively poorer.
    Could I have a source for that, because economic growth combined with falling inequality should mean that people in the middle and lower-middle should be doing extremely well on an absolute basis.
    That's the point. They might be doing well on an absolute basis, but if conveniences that depend on access to cheap labour are scarcer (because those people's incomes have gone up even more in percentage terms) then they won't feel it.

    https://x.com/arindube/status/1730702029603901663

    Bidenomics has also created strong wage growth-esp for working class families-that has outpaced inflation, by supporting a tight labor market through policy.

    This real wage growth for the bottom and middle income Americans has led to a historic reduction in wage inequality.


    image
    OK, let me rephrase.

    Do Americans perceive the economy as weak because - although their income have risen - so have mortgage and car payments? Or because inequality has declined?

    Is there any evidence that it is the latter?
    The theory is that it's the latter. It's just speculation to account for the discrepancy between perception and 'reality', as defined by statistics. It does make some intuitive sense.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,767
    kinabalu said:

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    Yet its all based on borrowing, which has to be paid back
    But that's not US specific. Eg we're drowning in debt but lack the oomph.
    Of course but the USA is way beyond the UK in its debt drowning. Its difficult to see how they can continue as they are.
    Of course, such thoughts have been aired for a very long time. The only way out (in my view) is to print money to pay off the bulk of the debt, but that has to be done very slowly, and it's no good trying to borrow any more while you're doing it.
    That gigantic military spend of theirs could be flexed downwards a little without the world caving in, I'd have thought.
    We'd need to spend more if they did.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,698

    Andy_JS said:

    Disappointment for a lot of Frasier fans.

    "Willie Ross Jr. Knee Deep
    @RossKneeDeep

    I am thoroughly disappointed by this. In an interview, Kelsey Grammer has said he still supports Donald Trump and will back him to be President again in 2024. I had no idea he was a Trump fan."

    https://twitter.com/RossKneeDeep/status/1732007822823412122

    Kelsey Grammer well-known as long-time right-wing wack-job.

    Which, speaking as a far-out woke-job, takes away NOTHING from his comedic genius.

    When he's got a decent script, that is. When he don't, he suffers. As with last seasons of "Frasier" (dreck).

    With a rather tragic backstory, if memory serves. Plus he is good even if the script sucks, as "Up Periscope" and "Money Plane" prove. But yes, he is right-wing wack job... 😃
  • Options

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Will someone let the US electorate know that it's the economy, stupids.

    https://twitter.com/SimonWDC/status/1731720857578328492
    The US economy:
    - GDP growth 5.2%
    - Inflation zero last month
    - Wage growth remains robust
    - Strongest recovery in G7
    - Lowest uninsured rate in US history
    - Median wealth up 37% 2020-2022
    - Dow nearing all-time high

    There's an interesting theory that what people are perceiving as a bad economy is actually just an effect of decreasing inequality. People below them are doing better, and they don't like it because it makes them feel relatively poorer.
    Could I have a source for that, because economic growth combined with falling inequality should mean that people in the middle and lower-middle should be doing extremely well on an absolute basis.
    That's the point. They might be doing well on an absolute basis, but if conveniences that depend on access to cheap labour are scarcer (because those people's incomes have gone up even more in percentage terms) then they won't feel it.

    https://x.com/arindube/status/1730702029603901663

    Bidenomics has also created strong wage growth-esp for working class families-that has outpaced inflation, by supporting a tight labor market through policy.

    This real wage growth for the bottom and middle income Americans has led to a historic reduction in wage inequality.


    image
    OK, let me rephrase.

    Do Americans perceive the economy as weak because - although their income have risen - so have mortgage and car payments? Or because inequality has declined?

    Is there any evidence that it is the latter?
    The theory is that it's the latter. It's just speculation to account for the discrepancy between perception and 'reality', as defined by statistics. It does make some intuitive sense.
    Like everything, polling on consumer sentiment is distorted by polarisation. Basically, Democrats are happy with the economy and Republicans say the economy is in the toilet. Under Trump it was the other way round.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,980
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Disappointment for a lot of Frasier fans.

    "Willie Ross Jr. Knee Deep
    @RossKneeDeep

    I am thoroughly disappointed by this. In an interview, Kelsey Grammer has said he still supports Donald Trump and will back him to be President again in 2024. I had no idea he was a Trump fan."

    https://twitter.com/RossKneeDeep/status/1732007822823412122

    Kelsey Grammer well-known as long-time right-wing wack-job.

    Which, speaking as a far-out woke-job, takes away NOTHING from his comedic genius.

    When he's got a decent script, that is. When he don't, he suffers. As with last seasons of "Frasier" (dreck).

    With a rather tragic backstory, if memory serves. Plus he is good even if the script sucks, as "Up Periscope" and "Money Plane" prove. But yes, he is right-wing wack job... 😃
    As he also has a net worth of $80 million I doubt he cares what people think of his political views, he is rich enough to afford to be one of the few Republicans left in Hollywood
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    In the last 70 years, only one Prime Minister has "had" two Monarchs: Liz Truss.

    Or... in the last 500 years, only one Prime Minister has truly looked like a rabbit caught in headlights: Liz Truss.

    Imagine being poor old QE2: your first PM is Winston Churchill, your last PM is Liz Truss. That's quite a downwards trend. No wonder she died.
    Whereas KCIII’s first PM was Truss so who knows what titan we will have as PM in the final year of his reign?

    Churchill and Truss had one thing in common though, they were both Liberals before they became Conservatives
    Churchill was a Conservative when first elected, defected to the Liberals in 1903, joined the Lloyd George Liberals in 1916, became an independent with the fall of the Coalition standing as a Liberal-backed candidate in Leicester in 1923 before becoming an 'Anti-Socialist Constitutionalist' in 1924, rejoining the Conservatives in 1925.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,980
    edited December 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    Liz Truss never lost an election.

    Though the final polls before she was ousted had her leading the Conservatives to their lowest voteshare in history and less than 50 Tory MPs would have been left
This discussion has been closed.