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Low expectations – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,130
    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    Apparently your Christmas song is

    No 1 at Christmas when you were 10 sang by the last artist you listened to in your phone

    Do They Know it’s Christmas by The Smiths was mine

    If everybody could be so kind as to give the best anagram of their mother's maiden name and a pop star that shares their birthday, then that would also be good... :)
    I really don’t think the year of birth here is putting people not posting in there real name at too much risk
    I was being humorous. :)

    My career in stand-up is not going well... :(
    You have your moments.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Re latest poll, voters would be well advised before offering unfettered power a la Blair. The Tories need a good kicking but the Country needs an opposition that can hold the Govt to account. A complete trouncing isn't in the public interest.
  • DougSeal said:

    Meanwhile, in "Conservatives Losing" news, the latest dispatch from London;

    The “Good Samaritan” who returned a lost Oyster card to Tory mayoral candidate Susan Hall has told how delighted she was to be reunited with her free travel pass...

    Shortly after the incident, on Monday afternoon, Ms Hall’s spokesman said she believed she had been pickpocketed on the Tube as she travelled home from Westminster to Pinner, first on the Jubilee line and then the Metropolitan line, which she switched on to at Finchley Road.


    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/susan-hall-lost-oyster-card-tube-tory-mayoral-good-samaritan-b1123916.html

    Who still uses an Oyster Card?
    In Hall's case, it was presumably a freedom pass, but it isn't chivalrous to mention that.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories are going to be utterly destroyed if these polls verify

    What are they going to do?? They are on the edge of total oblivion

    Signs of the times: with the exception of thoughtful and considered articles on dog eating the Speccie is more or less unreadable; the New Statesman presents the centrist reader with a reasonably balanced consideration of how to run the country in a centrist way without actually blowing it up.

    Game over?
    The Spectator is fun, tho. The New Statesman is intolerably worthy and boring. Hence their very differing sales and profit

    But then; twas ever thus, at least for the last few decades
    Any connections to declare?

    We've now been burned very badly by politics as "fun". I don't want my politics to be entertaining. I want my politics to ensure that when I go to the hospital I get treated in a decent amount of time, there is no shit coming out of my taps when I turn them on, I can rely on getting from get from point A to point B (whether by public or private modes of transport) safely and reliably, and I can get justice from a court I choose or am required to attend.

    I don't give a flying proverbial whether that's delivered by a religious data entry clerk from Stevenage with no friends whose only hobby is painting Warhammer figurines, or the the resurrected Elvis backed by a choir of angels duetting with Freddie Mercury, but I'm not getting it from the people The Spectator routinely pump.
    I don’t disagree. The amusing toffs, drunks and bohemians have had their time

    Now let the boring lefty managers have a go

    However, I predict they will fail quite badly and end up just as hated, but without the consolation of being occasionally diverting
    Genuinely struggling to think of any of the current government or its recent prior iterations one could call Bohemian.
    I was talking about the entire Speccie/Tory cohort

    Bojo (ex editor, ex PM) is certainly louche

    I believe some of the Spec columnists are genuinely raffish to the point of amorality

    Etc

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,618

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    McGowan was a proper musical genius. But lyrically that’s not quite Cole Porter

    “Fairytale” is much cleverer - probably the best Pogues song, lyrically
    Fairytale of New York may be cleverer with the duet structure etc but there's something buried in Rainy Night in Soho that gets me every time I listen to it. The lyrics have that kind of unknowable quality that I think is the mark of real poetry.
    “You scumbag, you maggot, you cheap lousy faggot
    Happy Christmas your arse I pray god it’s our last”

    Is one of the greatest couplets in the history of pop music. It expresses true love and deep sentiment - as drunk loving ruined people really speak, with a clever rhyme scheme

    I believe it has now been cancelled by the Woke
    I have spent years thinking it was "Happy Christmas you arse-wipe, thank god it’s our last"

    A real-life mondegreen
    For around 30 years I believed, and was bemused, that in Quicksand Bowie sang "Knowledge comes from tax relief".

    Eventually I googled it, and realised it was "death's release", which made more sense.
    Ah, misheard lyrics- one of the many minor joys the internet has stolen from us.
    They're still with us. Most people think Taylor Swift sings about "lonely Starbucks lovers" instead of a long list of ex-lovers.
  • DougSeal said:

    Meanwhile, in "Conservatives Losing" news, the latest dispatch from London;

    The “Good Samaritan” who returned a lost Oyster card to Tory mayoral candidate Susan Hall has told how delighted she was to be reunited with her free travel pass...

    Shortly after the incident, on Monday afternoon, Ms Hall’s spokesman said she believed she had been pickpocketed on the Tube as she travelled home from Westminster to Pinner, first on the Jubilee line and then the Metropolitan line, which she switched on to at Finchley Road.


    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/susan-hall-lost-oyster-card-tube-tory-mayoral-good-samaritan-b1123916.html

    Who still uses an Oyster Card?
    People who would rather TfL gets the money than a bank?
    Suspect cost of administering Oyster is more than transaction fees from contactless.

    The main reason is that there are certain products that are only available on Oyster, such as weekly travelcards, railcards, zip cards, etc.
  • Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    McGowan was a proper musical genius. But lyrically that’s not quite Cole Porter

    “Fairytale” is much cleverer - probably the best Pogues song, lyrically
    Their real forte was singing folk and roots songs (both their own and other people's) and making you really believe they meant it. Dirty Old Town, Navigator, Streets of Sorrow, Thousands are Sailing; all brilliant versions.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,070

    Captions please.


    "...you'll never guess what she said next! No, really! She's so mean, she's such a narcissist!. She was awful to Fred about the dad thing. Yes, I like him too. Who d'y'think's gonna win?..."
  • Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories are going to be utterly destroyed if these polls verify

    What are they going to do?? They are on the edge of total oblivion

    Signs of the times: with the exception of thoughtful and considered articles on dog eating the Speccie is more or less unreadable; the New Statesman presents the centrist reader with a reasonably balanced consideration of how to run the country in a centrist way without actually blowing it up.

    Game over?
    The Spectator is fun, tho. The New Statesman is intolerably worthy and boring. Hence their very differing sales and profit

    But then; twas ever thus, at least for the last few decades
    Any connections to declare?

    We've now been burned very badly by politics as "fun". I don't want my politics to be entertaining. I want my politics to ensure that when I go to the hospital I get treated in a decent amount of time, there is no shit coming out of my taps when I turn them on, I can rely on getting from get from point A to point B (whether by public or private modes of transport) safely and reliably, and I can get justice from a court I choose or am required to attend.

    I don't give a flying proverbial whether that's delivered by a religious data entry clerk from Stevenage with no friends whose only hobby is painting Warhammer figurines, or the the resurrected Elvis backed by a choir of angels duetting with Freddie Mercury, but I'm not getting it from the people The Spectator routinely pump.
    I don’t disagree. The amusing toffs, drunks and bohemians have had their time

    Now let the boring lefty managers have a go

    However, I predict they will fail quite badly and end up just as hated, but without the consolation of being occasionally diverting
    Genuinely struggling to think of any of the current government or its recent prior iterations one could call Bohemian.
    Certainly nobody is singing rhapsodies about them,
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,070
    Ghedebrav said:

    kinabalu said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    McGowan was a proper musical genius. But lyrically that’s not quite Cole Porter

    “Fairytale” is much cleverer - probably the best Pogues song, lyrically
    Fairytale of New York may be cleverer with the duet structure etc but there's something buried in Rainy Night in Soho that gets me every time I listen to it. The lyrics have that kind of unknowable quality that I think is the mark of real poetry.
    “You scumbag, you maggot, you cheap lousy faggot
    Happy Christmas your arse I pray god it’s our last”

    Is one of the greatest couplets in the history of pop music. It expresses true love and deep sentiment - as drunk loving ruined people really speak, with a clever rhyme scheme

    I believe it has now been cancelled by the Woke
    I have spent years thinking it was "Happy Christmas you arse-wipe, thank god it’s our last"

    A real-life mondegreen
    For around 30 years I believed, and was bemused, that in Quicksand Bowie sang "Knowledge comes from tax relief".

    Eventually I googled it, and realised it was "death's release", which made more sense.
    Ah, misheard lyrics- one of the many minor joys the internet has stolen from us.
    The very catchy "Sue Lawley" of course.

    Peter Kay isn't my absolute fav comic but he had a routine on this (misheard lyrics) which I caught recently during some random youtube-ing. He got a good 15 minutes out of it and it was only about 3 too long.
    "I can't believe you kiss your cock at night" - me neither, Shania.
    That don't impress me much :(
  • Re latest poll, voters would be well advised before offering unfettered power a la Blair. The Tories need a good kicking but the Country needs an opposition that can hold the Govt to account. A complete trouncing isn't in the public interest.

    Sounds like an argument against FPTP.
    ...and for voting for the SNP.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited December 2023
    viewcode said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    kinabalu said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    McGowan was a proper musical genius. But lyrically that’s not quite Cole Porter

    “Fairytale” is much cleverer - probably the best Pogues song, lyrically
    Fairytale of New York may be cleverer with the duet structure etc but there's something buried in Rainy Night in Soho that gets me every time I listen to it. The lyrics have that kind of unknowable quality that I think is the mark of real poetry.
    “You scumbag, you maggot, you cheap lousy faggot
    Happy Christmas your arse I pray god it’s our last”

    Is one of the greatest couplets in the history of pop music. It expresses true love and deep sentiment - as drunk loving ruined people really speak, with a clever rhyme scheme

    I believe it has now been cancelled by the Woke
    I have spent years thinking it was "Happy Christmas you arse-wipe, thank god it’s our last"

    A real-life mondegreen
    For around 30 years I believed, and was bemused, that in Quicksand Bowie sang "Knowledge comes from tax relief".

    Eventually I googled it, and realised it was "death's release", which made more sense.
    Ah, misheard lyrics- one of the many minor joys the internet has stolen from us.
    The very catchy "Sue Lawley" of course.

    Peter Kay isn't my absolute fav comic but he had a routine on this (misheard lyrics) which I caught recently during some random youtube-ing. He got a good 15 minutes out of it and it was only about 3 too long.
    "I can't believe you kiss your cock at night" - me neither, Shania.
    That don't impress me much :(


  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372
    viewcode said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    kinabalu said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    McGowan was a proper musical genius. But lyrically that’s not quite Cole Porter

    “Fairytale” is much cleverer - probably the best Pogues song, lyrically
    Fairytale of New York may be cleverer with the duet structure etc but there's something buried in Rainy Night in Soho that gets me every time I listen to it. The lyrics have that kind of unknowable quality that I think is the mark of real poetry.
    “You scumbag, you maggot, you cheap lousy faggot
    Happy Christmas your arse I pray god it’s our last”

    Is one of the greatest couplets in the history of pop music. It expresses true love and deep sentiment - as drunk loving ruined people really speak, with a clever rhyme scheme

    I believe it has now been cancelled by the Woke
    I have spent years thinking it was "Happy Christmas you arse-wipe, thank god it’s our last"

    A real-life mondegreen
    For around 30 years I believed, and was bemused, that in Quicksand Bowie sang "Knowledge comes from tax relief".

    Eventually I googled it, and realised it was "death's release", which made more sense.
    Ah, misheard lyrics- one of the many minor joys the internet has stolen from us.
    The very catchy "Sue Lawley" of course.

    Peter Kay isn't my absolute fav comic but he had a routine on this (misheard lyrics) which I caught recently during some random youtube-ing. He got a good 15 minutes out of it and it was only about 3 too long.
    "I can't believe you kiss your cock at night" - me neither, Shania.
    That don't impress me much :(
    Here's one you'll know. A line in one of the existing Wheel in Space episodes. Troughton either says, or is supposed, to say "Sectional Air Supply" to which many fans hear it as "Sexual Air Supply" !!!!
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,520
    edited December 2023

    Cookie said:

    I go out each Christmas with some friends for a Christmas meal.
    This year, we're going to a vegetarian restaurant. It's supposed to be nice. But everything on the menu sounds like a side order. Vegetables aren't a meal, they're things you have with a meal.

    Had a very nice mushroom pie with chips in my local last night.
    We have vegan friends staying this weekend and we are cooking them a mushroom and butternut squash risotto. I love meat but am happy to eat vegetarian and vegan if it is well cooked.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    DougSeal said:

    Meanwhile, in "Conservatives Losing" news, the latest dispatch from London;

    The “Good Samaritan” who returned a lost Oyster card to Tory mayoral candidate Susan Hall has told how delighted she was to be reunited with her free travel pass...

    Shortly after the incident, on Monday afternoon, Ms Hall’s spokesman said she believed she had been pickpocketed on the Tube as she travelled home from Westminster to Pinner, first on the Jubilee line and then the Metropolitan line, which she switched on to at Finchley Road.


    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/susan-hall-lost-oyster-card-tube-tory-mayoral-good-samaritan-b1123916.html

    Who still uses an Oyster Card?
    People who would rather TfL gets the money than a bank?
    She is 68 so I suspect the Oyster Card is a free travel one.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,907
    Very interesting prog on Radio 4 about migration/Brexit. on now......

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_fourfm

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,907
    DougSeal said:

    Roger said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories are going to be utterly destroyed if these polls verify

    What are they going to do?? They are on the edge of total oblivion

    Signs of the times: with the exception of thoughtful and considered articles on dog eating the Speccie is more or less unreadable; the New Statesman presents the centrist reader with a reasonably balanced consideration of how to run the country in a centrist way without actually blowing it up.

    Game over?
    The Spectator is fun, tho. The New Statesman is intolerably worthy and boring. Hence their very differing sales and profit

    But then; twas ever thus, at least for the last few decades
    Any connections to declare?

    We've now been burned very badly by politics as "fun". I don't want my politics to be entertaining. I want my politics to ensure that when I go to the hospital I get treated in a decent amount of time, there is no shit coming out of my taps when I turn them on, I can rely on getting from get from point A to point B (whether by public or private modes of transport) safely and reliably, and I can get justice from a court I choose or am required to attend.

    I don't give a flying proverbial whether that's delivered by a religious data entry clerk from Stevenage with no friends whose only hobby is painting Warhammer figurines, or the the resurrected Elvis backed by a choir of angels duetting with Freddie Mercury, but I'm not getting it from the people The Spectator routinely pump.
    I don’t disagree. The amusing toffs, drunks and bohemians have had their time

    Now let the boring lefty managers have a go

    However, I predict they will fail quite badly and end up just as hated, but without the consolation of being occasionally diverting
    I worked for a worthy but boring firm firm specialising in shipping, aviation and insurance law . When it ran into some trouble it got sold to this "fun" lawyer in April -

    https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/watch-champagne-swigging-modhwadia-parties-days-suspension

    After 3 1/2 months of this new ownership, in August it emerged that he bought my firm with millions of his clients money, I had to quit and find a new job with my team, am suffering the embarrassment of being associated in any way with the fiasco, he's under investigation by the SFO, and is likely to cost every solicitor in England & Wales £300 - £500 to compensate his clients.

    "He's lots of fun" we were assured. "His parties are great". Bollocks. He should have been struck off for those dance moves alone. And the catastrophic lack of taste.
    Yes a well known story. It would share top billing with the post office if it wasn't a bunch of lawyers who are being shafted.
    The lawyers are fine. It’s the clients who can’t get their money that are the story.
    Aren't the clients getting their money back?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    DougSeal said:

    Meanwhile, in "Conservatives Losing" news, the latest dispatch from London;

    The “Good Samaritan” who returned a lost Oyster card to Tory mayoral candidate Susan Hall has told how delighted she was to be reunited with her free travel pass...

    Shortly after the incident, on Monday afternoon, Ms Hall’s spokesman said she believed she had been pickpocketed on the Tube as she travelled home from Westminster to Pinner, first on the Jubilee line and then the Metropolitan line, which she switched on to at Finchley Road.


    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/susan-hall-lost-oyster-card-tube-tory-mayoral-good-samaritan-b1123916.html

    Who still uses an Oyster Card?
    If you have travel passes, weekly, monthly or yearly, they have to be on an Oyster Card.

    In a related note, to get the reduced rates for children, they have to have a “Zip” card. Which is not exactly a normal Oyster card. It costs money if they lose it, and topping up is a pain.

    Both should be available as linkage to a bank card or to an app on a phone.
  • Apparently, at the opening on the COP summit, the UAE have recreated their first (deceased) President by hologram to give a speech.

    Got to be an idea the Tories can nab, surely? The return of the Blessed Margaret?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,130

    DougSeal said:

    Meanwhile, in "Conservatives Losing" news, the latest dispatch from London;

    The “Good Samaritan” who returned a lost Oyster card to Tory mayoral candidate Susan Hall has told how delighted she was to be reunited with her free travel pass...

    Shortly after the incident, on Monday afternoon, Ms Hall’s spokesman said she believed she had been pickpocketed on the Tube as she travelled home from Westminster to Pinner, first on the Jubilee line and then the Metropolitan line, which she switched on to at Finchley Road.


    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/susan-hall-lost-oyster-card-tube-tory-mayoral-good-samaritan-b1123916.html

    Who still uses an Oyster Card?
    People who would rather TfL gets the money than a bank?
    Suspect cost of administering Oyster is more than transaction fees from contactless.

    The main reason is that there are certain products that are only available on Oyster, such as weekly travelcards, railcards, zip cards, etc.
    Eg the 60+ oyster which I have. It's fantastic. It works for anything in TfL which takes an oyster. Bus, tube, overground, tram, boat, cable car, you name it. I just buzz around London around for free. People on right and left say it's a crazy use of public money, it's bound to be scrapped soon bla bla, but I really hope not. Yes, I could afford the fares, of course I could, I was a bond trader, but it makes me feel valued to have this perk now I'm 63 and I'd say it does get me out and about more than if I didn't have it.
  • Latest polls in terms of Labour lead, compared with the last poll from the same company that preceded the Autumn Statement:

    Techne +22 (-2)
    YouGov +23 (nc)
    More in Common +16 (+4)
    Deltapoll +14 (-3)
    R&W +20 (+1)
    Savanta +18 (+1)
    We Think +18 (-2)
    Opinium +16 (+3)

    Aggregate movement from 8 companies +2 i.e. average +0.25%.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,138
    edited December 2023
    eek said:

    DougSeal said:

    Meanwhile, in "Conservatives Losing" news, the latest dispatch from London;

    The “Good Samaritan” who returned a lost Oyster card to Tory mayoral candidate Susan Hall has told how delighted she was to be reunited with her free travel pass...

    Shortly after the incident, on Monday afternoon, Ms Hall’s spokesman said she believed she had been pickpocketed on the Tube as she travelled home from Westminster to Pinner, first on the Jubilee line and then the Metropolitan line, which she switched on to at Finchley Road.


    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/susan-hall-lost-oyster-card-tube-tory-mayoral-good-samaritan-b1123916.html

    Who still uses an Oyster Card?
    People who would rather TfL gets the money than a bank?
    She is 68 so I suspect the Oyster Card is a free travel one.
    The stolen Oyster Card story is perhaps a deliberate fabrication. Or just Susan Hall being Susan Hall.

    She used the story to launch another attack on Sadiq Khan, even *after* she had got it back. The cash in the wallet was still there .... it sounds really "stolen".

    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/susan-hall-pickpocketed-on-tube/who does not even know that as Mayopr she can't build stuff as of right in Royal Parks.

    I waiting for Susan's plans to build a pier in the Serpentine so she can have a show at the end of it.

    BTW I used an Oyster Card last time I was in London. I normally don't use phone payments for resilience - so losing a phone doesn't lose everything else with it.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,070
    Roger said:

    Very interesting prog on Radio 4 about migration/Brexit. on now......

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_fourfm

    "Net migration: What’s happening in the UK?", The Briefing Room, BBC Sounds, 30 Nov 2023, see https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001sv3b and https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001sv3b
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Re latest poll, voters would be well advised before offering unfettered power a la Blair. The Tories need a good kicking but the Country needs an opposition that can hold the Govt to account. A complete trouncing isn't in the public interest.

    Counterpoint- it serves as a warning to any future government not to do as badly.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    Apparently, at the opening on the COP summit, the UAE have recreated their first (deceased) President by hologram to give a speech.

    Got to be an idea the Tories can nab, surely? The return of the Blessed Margaret?

    KC3 will have been looking nervously over his shoulder in case they'd recreated his mum, too?

    (Presumably this is one of the projecting onto glass thingies - bugs me a bit when news outlets use 'hologram')
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories are going to be utterly destroyed if these polls verify

    What are they going to do?? They are on the edge of total oblivion

    Signs of the times: with the exception of thoughtful and considered articles on dog eating the Speccie is more or less unreadable; the New Statesman presents the centrist reader with a reasonably balanced consideration of how to run the country in a centrist way without actually blowing it up.

    Game over?
    The Spectator is fun, tho. The New Statesman is intolerably worthy and boring. Hence their very differing sales and profit

    But then; twas ever thus, at least for the last few decades
    Any connections to declare?

    We've now been burned very badly by politics as "fun". I don't want my politics to be entertaining. I want my politics to ensure that when I go to the hospital I get treated in a decent amount of time, there is no shit coming out of my taps when I turn them on, I can rely on getting from get from point A to point B (whether by public or private modes of transport) safely and reliably, and I can get justice from a court I choose or am required to attend.

    I don't give a flying proverbial whether that's delivered by a religious data entry clerk from Stevenage with no friends whose only hobby is painting Warhammer figurines, or the the resurrected Elvis backed by a choir of angels duetting with Freddie Mercury, but I'm not getting it from the people The Spectator routinely pump.
    I don’t disagree. The amusing toffs, drunks and bohemians have had their time

    Now let the boring lefty managers have a go

    However, I predict they will fail quite badly and end up just as hated, but without the consolation of being occasionally diverting
    Genuinely struggling to think of any of the current government or its recent prior iterations one could call Bohemian.
    I was talking about the entire Speccie/Tory cohort

    Bojo (ex editor, ex PM) is certainly louche

    I believe some of the Spec columnists are genuinely raffish to the point of amorality

    Etc

    I think there's more to being a bohemian than failing to tuck your shirt in.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    Re latest poll, voters would be well advised before offering unfettered power a la Blair. The Tories need a good kicking but the Country needs an opposition that can hold the Govt to account. A complete trouncing isn't in the public interest.

    Sounds like an argument against FPTP.
    ...and for voting for the SNP.
    That's stupidity
  • Snow in suburban east London! Well, a few flakes...
  • Snow in suburban east London! Well, a few flakes...

    Yes, they warned us about snowflakes voting for Wes Streeting.
  • Cookie said:

    I go out each Christmas with some friends for a Christmas meal.
    This year, we're going to a vegetarian restaurant. It's supposed to be nice. But everything on the menu sounds like a side order. Vegetables aren't a meal, they're things you have with a meal.

    Had a very nice mushroom pie with chips in my local last night.
    We have vegan friends staying this weekend and we are cooking them a mushroom and butternut squash risotto. I love meat but am happy to eat vegetarian and vegan if it is well cooked.
    Butternut squash - hmm, not my favourite!

    True story, when I worked at the MRC Labs at Mill Hill (London) about 15 years back, the staff canteen, for a time, had veggie options that always contained butternut squash: butternut squash curry, butternut squash pasta, butternut squash quiche... you get the picture!
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    edited December 2023

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories are going to be utterly destroyed if these polls verify

    What are they going to do?? They are on the edge of total oblivion

    Signs of the times: with the exception of thoughtful and considered articles on dog eating the Speccie is more or less unreadable; the New Statesman presents the centrist reader with a reasonably balanced consideration of how to run the country in a centrist way without actually blowing it up.

    Game over?
    The Spectator is fun, tho. The New Statesman is intolerably worthy and boring. Hence their very differing sales and profit

    But then; twas ever thus, at least for the last few decades
    Any connections to declare?

    We've now been burned very badly by politics as "fun". I don't want my politics to be entertaining. I want my politics to ensure that when I go to the hospital I get treated in a decent amount of time, there is no shit coming out of my taps when I turn them on, I can rely on getting from get from point A to point B (whether by public or private modes of transport) safely and reliably, and I can get justice from a court I choose or am required to attend.

    I don't give a flying proverbial whether that's delivered by a religious data entry clerk from Stevenage with no friends whose only hobby is painting Warhammer figurines, or the the resurrected Elvis backed by a choir of angels duetting with Freddie Mercury, but I'm not getting it from the people The Spectator routinely pump.
    I don’t disagree. The amusing toffs, drunks and bohemians have had their time

    Now let the boring lefty managers have a go

    However, I predict they will fail quite badly and end up just as hated, but without the consolation of being occasionally diverting
    Genuinely struggling to think of any of the current government or its recent prior iterations one could call Bohemian.
    I was talking about the entire Speccie/Tory cohort

    Bojo (ex editor, ex PM) is certainly louche

    I believe some of the Spec columnists are genuinely raffish to the point of amorality

    Etc

    I think there's more to being a bohemian than failing to tuck your shirt in.
    Indeed. The Dandy Warhols published a guide, I believe.
  • Snow in suburban east London! Well, a few flakes...

    Yes, they warned us about snowflakes voting for Wes Streeting.
    Future Labour leader Wes Streeting?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited December 2023
    "It was such a long time ago". Post office witness.

    I wouldn't regard 2013 as a long time ago.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lADqvNGR5ao
  • Bugger, but what a life.


  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248

    Cookie said:

    I go out each Christmas with some friends for a Christmas meal.
    This year, we're going to a vegetarian restaurant. It's supposed to be nice. But everything on the menu sounds like a side order. Vegetables aren't a meal, they're things you have with a meal.

    Had a very nice mushroom pie with chips in my local last night.
    We have vegan friends staying this weekend and we are cooking them a mushroom and butternut squash risotto. I love meat but am happy to eat vegetarian and vegan if it is well cooked.
    Butternut squash - hmm, not my favourite!

    True story, when I worked at the MRC Labs at Mill Hill (London) about 15 years back, the staff canteen, for a time, had veggie options that always contained butternut squash: butternut squash curry, butternut squash pasta, butternut squash quiche... you get the picture!
    Surely you should serve venison?

    Did we ever answer the question of whether venison bacon is vegan?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    The inquiry seems from this vantage point to be led by sage and alternative sage types - people who could only ever believe lockdowns should have been longer and harder. There doesn't seem to be any great exploration of the costs of lockdowns.

    I’m quite sure the enquiry will find that lockdowns should have been more stringent, and should have lasted longer.
    And they won’t even address the origin of the disease - and the part the British medical establishment played in covering up a potential lab origin, for over a year. Whatever your opinion of Covid’s origins, there WAS unquestionably a conspiracy to stop any debate about lab leak

    Absolutely outrageous. Gove mentioned it once and was instantly silenced
    The whole lot of them should be sacked and sent home. It's a disgrace, and Baroness Hallet is trashing her reputation.
    Yesterday, you were arguing that having mixed race children was medically unwise. You don't exactly seem like someone anyone should listen to on medical matters.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,130
    DougSeal said:

    Re latest poll, voters would be well advised before offering unfettered power a la Blair. The Tories need a good kicking but the Country needs an opposition that can hold the Govt to account. A complete trouncing isn't in the public interest.

    Counterpoint- it serves as a warning to any future government not to do as badly.
    For me the reason they deserve a damn good thrashing is not so much the incompetence as the clear impression these last few years that they have been taking the piss. You can't allow that. Any boss worth their salt will tell you that an employee taking the piss has to be fired. This is your area of expertise in fact, Doug, isn't it. So you know. And it really does apply here. As Tony Blair aped Bill Clinton in saying, when it comes to politics "the British people are the Boss".
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,070
    viewcode said:



    • Shane MacGowan
    • Henry Kissinger
    • Alaistair Darling
    • Jimmy Corkhill
    • The Grand Tour
    • Top Gear
    who's next... :(
    John Byrne https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67589431 One of those people who made me think Scotland has a point as well as a place.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    Roger said:

    DougSeal said:

    Roger said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories are going to be utterly destroyed if these polls verify

    What are they going to do?? They are on the edge of total oblivion

    Signs of the times: with the exception of thoughtful and considered articles on dog eating the Speccie is more or less unreadable; the New Statesman presents the centrist reader with a reasonably balanced consideration of how to run the country in a centrist way without actually blowing it up.

    Game over?
    The Spectator is fun, tho. The New Statesman is intolerably worthy and boring. Hence their very differing sales and profit

    But then; twas ever thus, at least for the last few decades
    Any connections to declare?

    We've now been burned very badly by politics as "fun". I don't want my politics to be entertaining. I want my politics to ensure that when I go to the hospital I get treated in a decent amount of time, there is no shit coming out of my taps when I turn them on, I can rely on getting from get from point A to point B (whether by public or private modes of transport) safely and reliably, and I can get justice from a court I choose or am required to attend.

    I don't give a flying proverbial whether that's delivered by a religious data entry clerk from Stevenage with no friends whose only hobby is painting Warhammer figurines, or the the resurrected Elvis backed by a choir of angels duetting with Freddie Mercury, but I'm not getting it from the people The Spectator routinely pump.
    I don’t disagree. The amusing toffs, drunks and bohemians have had their time

    Now let the boring lefty managers have a go

    However, I predict they will fail quite badly and end up just as hated, but without the consolation of being occasionally diverting
    I worked for a worthy but boring firm firm specialising in shipping, aviation and insurance law . When it ran into some trouble it got sold to this "fun" lawyer in April -

    https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/watch-champagne-swigging-modhwadia-parties-days-suspension

    After 3 1/2 months of this new ownership, in August it emerged that he bought my firm with millions of his clients money, I had to quit and find a new job with my team, am suffering the embarrassment of being associated in any way with the fiasco, he's under investigation by the SFO, and is likely to cost every solicitor in England & Wales £300 - £500 to compensate his clients.

    "He's lots of fun" we were assured. "His parties are great". Bollocks. He should have been struck off for those dance moves alone. And the catastrophic lack of taste.
    Yes a well known story. It would share top billing with the post office if it wasn't a bunch of lawyers who are being shafted.
    The lawyers are fine. It’s the clients who can’t get their money that are the story.
    Aren't the clients getting their money back?
    I bet the Dom Pérignon wasn't actually Dom Pérignon

    Some years back, ABN Amro was celebrating the go live of a new system. They hired out Mahiki, with the full trimmings. I wondered about, wondering if the ice sculpture/vodka drinking thing was going to result in lawsuits... Anyway, it was Dom Pérignon all the way. Supposedly.

    At about midnight the glass I was given tasted different. So I went to the bar and asked the bar tender why the Dom Pérignon poured from the bottle tasted like Veuve Clicquot. He looked at me, then gave me an unopened bottle of Dom.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051

    The Inquiry does not seem to have even the most basic grasp of what government is for. It seems to be taking as its starting point 'how could the number of Covid deaths have been minimised', without recognising that governments have many other duties, from protecting the economy, education and civil liberties (and much else)

    That's simply not true. There has been extensive questioning about issues other than minimising the number of deaths. Indeed, the terms of reference, https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/documents/terms-of-reference/ , cover:

    "x) the impact on the mental health and wellbeing of the population, including but not limited to those who were harmed significantly by the pandemic;
    xi) the impact on the mental health and wellbeing of the bereaved, including post-bereavement support;
    xii) the impact on health and care sector workers and other key workers;
    xiii) the impact on children and young people, including health, wellbeing and social care;
    xiv) education and early years provision;
    xv) the closure and reopening of the hospitality, retail, sport and leisure, and travel and tourism sectors, places of worship, and cultural institutions;
    xvi) housing and homelessness;
    xvii) safeguarding and support for victims of domestic abuse;
    xviii) prisons and other places of detention;
    xix) the justice system;
    xx) immigration and asylum;
    xxi) travel and borders; and
    xxii) the safeguarding of public funds and management of financial risk."
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,413
    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT

    isam said:

    Apparently your Christmas song is

    No 1 at Christmas when you were 10 sang by the last artist you listened to in your phone

    Do They Know it’s Christmas by The Smiths was mine

    DAY TRIPPER/WE CAN WORK IT OUT by Luciano pavarotti for me

    Mistletoe and Wine by Miley Cyrus.

    If anyone wants to have a go at me for listening to Miley Cyrus I will just say 'Flowers' is one of the best break up songs ever.

    I am also slightly obsessed by her cover of Heart of Glass.

    A few years ago I had a random station playing on Apple Music and it started playing a cover of Heart of Glass and I thought this is good/different, I was shocked into silence when I looked to see it was actually Miley Cyrus.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbdRLyixJpc

    Bohemian Rhapsody by The Eagles for me.

    Miley Cyrus has a really talented Dad too, with his Achy Breaky Heart.
    Regrettably he failed to pass it on.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    This sounds rather alarming.

    "Venezuela to hold referendum on seizing part of Guyana — and its oil"

    https://www.ft.com/content/a0ec9710-aa52-416b-ac79-8ada5cdab229
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    Nigelb said:

    The Inquiry does not seem to have even the most basic grasp of what government is for. It seems to be taking as its starting point 'how could the number of Covid deaths have been minimised', without recognising that governments have many other duties, from protecting the economy, education and civil liberties (and much else), or the nature of how politics is done; that it's not a technocratic process and that opinion - not least on those competing (but at times complimentary) priorities but also on how events shape process. Things which might have been beneficial in hindsight could not have been done with foresight (even were that foresight available), because people, from MPs to public, demand proof or compelling argument before sacrifice.

    You can't lock down a country every time there's a new virus, just like it would only have been justifiable to remove Hitler in 1933 with the benefit of hindsight from an alternative reality, no matter how useful that would have actually been. There are lots of other nutcase dictators and most don't turn out to be genocidal warmongers (which isn't to say more couldn't have been done to prepare or that defining a threat away by policy definition was absurd).

    There's also the rather more important point that how we should have responded three years ago is a very different thing from how we ought to plan to do so in the future.

    The technologies for immune surveillance, and the manufacturing of rapid diagnostic tests and vaccines are now massively more effective than they were back then.

    Future pandemic planning should look at how countries like Taiwan and S Korea were able to keep infection at bay for far longer than we were. And ensure that there is domestic manufacturing capacity for vaccines and test kits. The latter would be relatively cheap, and extremely cost effective as a prevention measure.
    There's been plenty of reference to countries like Taiwan and S Korea in the evidence given. I wouldn't be surprised to see conclusions along the lines of "do what Taiwan and S Korea did".
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    The Inquiry does not seem to have even the most basic grasp of what government is for. It seems to be taking as its starting point 'how could the number of Covid deaths have been minimised', without recognising that governments have many other duties, from protecting the economy, education and civil liberties (and much else)

    That's simply not true. There has been extensive questioning about issues other than minimising the number of deaths. Indeed, the terms of reference, https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/documents/terms-of-reference/ , cover:

    "x) the impact on the mental health and wellbeing of the population, including but not limited to those who were harmed significantly by the pandemic;
    xi) the impact on the mental health and wellbeing of the bereaved, including post-bereavement support;
    xii) the impact on health and care sector workers and other key workers;
    xiii) the impact on children and young people, including health, wellbeing and social care;
    xiv) education and early years provision;
    xv) the closure and reopening of the hospitality, retail, sport and leisure, and travel and tourism sectors, places of worship, and cultural institutions;
    xvi) housing and homelessness;
    xvii) safeguarding and support for victims of domestic abuse;
    xviii) prisons and other places of detention;
    xix) the justice system;
    xx) immigration and asylum;
    xxi) travel and borders; and
    xxii) the safeguarding of public funds and management of financial risk."
    Arguably what is missing is consideration of best practice from other countries. But it's a long process. Frankly the media reporting is driving a negative impression of the inquiry, just as they failed during the epidemic itself.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    The inquiry seems from this vantage point to be led by sage and alternative sage types - people who could only ever believe lockdowns should have been longer and harder. There doesn't seem to be any great exploration of the costs of lockdowns.

    There has been a lot of questions around whether the government had mitigation plans around the costs of lockdowns (no), and whether they considered these costs during decision making (not much). There was, for example, a set of questions around domestic violence, was there any consideration it might go up, which department was responsible?

    There was also at least two times that the Inquiry was asking questions around how Independent SAGE operated and whether they should have used that name.
    All of which assumes you have to lock down and starts from a 'state should do more' perspective.
    No, it doesn't. We did lockdown, so it makes sense to ask questions about planned mitigations, which is exactly what you were asking for from the Inquiry!

    The question of whether lockdown was necessary or avoidable has also been examined, with witnesses noting the experience of some east Asian countries that avoided ever having to do a national lockdown.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,413
    isam said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    Superb. I especially like the penultimate verse.
    The last line of the song gets me every time. It is so beautifully opaque but also somehow freighted with meaning. It's probably my favourite line in any pop song.
    Talking of fabulous lyrics Roger Waters "Hanging on in Quiet desperation is the English way" is just magnificent.
    Dark Side of the Moon is often superb, lyrically - which is quite odd as Pink Floyd generally didn’t write superb lyrics. Frequently nice or decent but never outstanding

    That whole album is touched with an inexplicable, alchemical and cruelly fleeting genius. But at least we got that album
    I find a lot of Waters lyrics from 73-84, Dark Side to the Final Cut, to be really moving and thought provoking

    Interesting debate to be had about something I found out the other day; the lady who ‘sang’ The Great Gig in the Sky was awarded a songwriting credit for it thirty years after its release. She was told by the band to listen to the song, go into the studio and let herself go with whatever feelings it evoked. The results were legendary, but did she ‘write the song’? Apparently so. Maybe she did

    She absolutely wrote half the song and deserves half the money

    Rick Wright’s tune is simple and lovely but it’s her extemporised vocals which make it a masterpiece. I hope she got a million. The Floyd can certainly afford it
    “ In 2004, Torry sued Pink Floyd and EMI for songwriting royalties on the basis that her contribution to "The Great Gig in the Sky" constituted co-authorship with keyboardist Richard Wright. In 1973, as a session singer, she was paid only the standard flat fee of £30 for Sunday studio work (the equivalent of £400 in 2022).[9] She said in 1998, "If I'd known then what I know now, I would have done something about organising copyright or publishing."[3] In 2005, an out-of-court settlement was reached in Torry's favour, although the terms of the settlement were not disclosed.[14] All releases after 2005 carry an additional credit for "Vocal composition by Clare Torry"[15] in the "Great Gig in the Sky" segment of the booklet or liner notes.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clare_Torry

    I wonder how much she got. Funny that no one ever thought to offer her a credit at the time, although I can see why it’s a grey area. Apparently when she’d finished singing she thought she’d made a fool of herself and was embarrassed to see the band
    The sax player in Gerry Raffertey's Baker Street was just paid a flat fee for the session too afaicr.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited December 2023
    The main thing I wanted the Covid inquiry to do was question whether lockdowns were a good idea, and whether it might have been better if young, healthy people hadn't been subjected to it. Looks like that isn't going to happen.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,130

    Roger said:

    DougSeal said:

    Roger said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories are going to be utterly destroyed if these polls verify

    What are they going to do?? They are on the edge of total oblivion

    Signs of the times: with the exception of thoughtful and considered articles on dog eating the Speccie is more or less unreadable; the New Statesman presents the centrist reader with a reasonably balanced consideration of how to run the country in a centrist way without actually blowing it up.

    Game over?
    The Spectator is fun, tho. The New Statesman is intolerably worthy and boring. Hence their very differing sales and profit

    But then; twas ever thus, at least for the last few decades
    Any connections to declare?

    We've now been burned very badly by politics as "fun". I don't want my politics to be entertaining. I want my politics to ensure that when I go to the hospital I get treated in a decent amount of time, there is no shit coming out of my taps when I turn them on, I can rely on getting from get from point A to point B (whether by public or private modes of transport) safely and reliably, and I can get justice from a court I choose or am required to attend.

    I don't give a flying proverbial whether that's delivered by a religious data entry clerk from Stevenage with no friends whose only hobby is painting Warhammer figurines, or the the resurrected Elvis backed by a choir of angels duetting with Freddie Mercury, but I'm not getting it from the people The Spectator routinely pump.
    I don’t disagree. The amusing toffs, drunks and bohemians have had their time

    Now let the boring lefty managers have a go

    However, I predict they will fail quite badly and end up just as hated, but without the consolation of being occasionally diverting
    I worked for a worthy but boring firm firm specialising in shipping, aviation and insurance law . When it ran into some trouble it got sold to this "fun" lawyer in April -

    https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/watch-champagne-swigging-modhwadia-parties-days-suspension

    After 3 1/2 months of this new ownership, in August it emerged that he bought my firm with millions of his clients money, I had to quit and find a new job with my team, am suffering the embarrassment of being associated in any way with the fiasco, he's under investigation by the SFO, and is likely to cost every solicitor in England & Wales £300 - £500 to compensate his clients.

    "He's lots of fun" we were assured. "His parties are great". Bollocks. He should have been struck off for those dance moves alone. And the catastrophic lack of taste.
    Yes a well known story. It would share top billing with the post office if it wasn't a bunch of lawyers who are being shafted.
    The lawyers are fine. It’s the clients who can’t get their money that are the story.
    Aren't the clients getting their money back?
    I bet the Dom Pérignon wasn't actually Dom Pérignon

    Some years back, ABN Amro was celebrating the go live of a new system. They hired out Mahiki, with the full trimmings. I wondered about, wondering if the ice sculpture/vodka drinking thing was going to result in lawsuits... Anyway, it was Dom Pérignon all the way. Supposedly.

    At about midnight the glass I was given tasted different. So I went to the bar and asked the bar tender why the Dom Pérignon poured from the bottle tasted like Veuve Clicquot. He looked at me, then gave me an unopened bottle of Dom.
    Let's see if we overlapped - when were you at ABN?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    edited December 2023
    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    Captions please.


    Guy kneeling: Ok, listen up students. This is a very rare specimen, probably the last example we'll ever see - at least in our lifetimes - of the Conservative PM. See how it tries to bluster sincerity by reaching for where it hopes we'll believe a heart might be? Get a quick sketch of the main features before it's too late.
    If the economy is poor under a Labour government the swingback to the Conservative Opposition would be swift
    I'm naturally assuming that our lifetimes will be short due to one or more of:
    • The horrors of a Labour government
    • AI-apocalypse
    • Nuclear winter
    • The commonplace pneumonia doing the rounds in China and now DENMARK
    Remember in the May 2010 general election Brown Labour got just 29% of the vote, not much different to where the Sunak Tories are polling now. 2010 was also 13 years into a Labour government as we are now 13 years into a Tory government.

    However within a year, by May 2011 Ed Miliband's Labour was on 41% with Yougov and 38% with Opinium.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election

    If voters don't feel a new government is doing much for them and the economy isn't great they can swiftly turn against it

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:



    • Shane MacGowan
    • Henry Kissinger
    • Alaistair Darling
    • Jimmy Corkhill
    • The Grand Tour
    • Top Gear
    who's next... :(
    John Byrne https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67589431 One of those people who made me think Scotland has a point as well as a place.
    This list just how out of touch this site is with real people. Big fat leavers with a blood type of Bisto.

    Sticky Vicky died this week. That means more than everyone on that stupid fucking list.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,070
    Dura_Ace said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:



    • Shane MacGowan
    • Henry Kissinger
    • Alaistair Darling
    • Jimmy Corkhill
    • The Grand Tour
    • Top Gear
    who's next... :(
    John Byrne https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67589431 One of those people who made me think Scotland has a point as well as a place.
    This list just how out of touch this site is with real people. Big fat leavers with a blood type of Bisto.

    Sticky Vicky died this week. That means more than everyone on that stupid fucking list.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sticky_Vicky

    I can't agree with you as to the merit of her act, sorry.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    DougSeal said:

    Roger said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories are going to be utterly destroyed if these polls verify

    What are they going to do?? They are on the edge of total oblivion

    Signs of the times: with the exception of thoughtful and considered articles on dog eating the Speccie is more or less unreadable; the New Statesman presents the centrist reader with a reasonably balanced consideration of how to run the country in a centrist way without actually blowing it up.

    Game over?
    The Spectator is fun, tho. The New Statesman is intolerably worthy and boring. Hence their very differing sales and profit

    But then; twas ever thus, at least for the last few decades
    Any connections to declare?

    We've now been burned very badly by politics as "fun". I don't want my politics to be entertaining. I want my politics to ensure that when I go to the hospital I get treated in a decent amount of time, there is no shit coming out of my taps when I turn them on, I can rely on getting from get from point A to point B (whether by public or private modes of transport) safely and reliably, and I can get justice from a court I choose or am required to attend.

    I don't give a flying proverbial whether that's delivered by a religious data entry clerk from Stevenage with no friends whose only hobby is painting Warhammer figurines, or the the resurrected Elvis backed by a choir of angels duetting with Freddie Mercury, but I'm not getting it from the people The Spectator routinely pump.
    I don’t disagree. The amusing toffs, drunks and bohemians have had their time

    Now let the boring lefty managers have a go

    However, I predict they will fail quite badly and end up just as hated, but without the consolation of being occasionally diverting
    I worked for a worthy but boring firm firm specialising in shipping, aviation and insurance law . When it ran into some trouble it got sold to this "fun" lawyer in April -

    https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/watch-champagne-swigging-modhwadia-parties-days-suspension

    After 3 1/2 months of this new ownership, in August it emerged that he bought my firm with millions of his clients money, I had to quit and find a new job with my team, am suffering the embarrassment of being associated in any way with the fiasco, he's under investigation by the SFO, and is likely to cost every solicitor in England & Wales £300 - £500 to compensate his clients.

    "He's lots of fun" we were assured. "His parties are great". Bollocks. He should have been struck off for those dance moves alone. And the catastrophic lack of taste.
    Yes a well known story. It would share top billing with the post office if it wasn't a bunch of lawyers who are being shafted.
    The lawyers are fine. It’s the clients who can’t get their money that are the story.
    Aren't the clients getting their money back?
    I bet the Dom Pérignon wasn't actually Dom Pérignon

    Some years back, ABN Amro was celebrating the go live of a new system. They hired out Mahiki, with the full trimmings. I wondered about, wondering if the ice sculpture/vodka drinking thing was going to result in lawsuits... Anyway, it was Dom Pérignon all the way. Supposedly.

    At about midnight the glass I was given tasted different. So I went to the bar and asked the bar tender why the Dom Pérignon poured from the bottle tasted like Veuve Clicquot. He looked at me, then gave me an unopened bottle of Dom.
    Let's see if we overlapped - when were you at ABN?
    Early 2000s
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds rather alarming.

    "Venezuela to hold referendum on seizing part of Guyana — and its oil"

    https://www.ft.com/content/a0ec9710-aa52-416b-ac79-8ada5cdab229

    I am waiting for the justification for this from the Tankies & Chums.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001
    It does look as though quite a few people are seeing what they expect about the covid inquiry.

    Personally, I feel it certainly has devolved a lot into attempted cover-your-arse from many, who've necessarily looked to blame others, and the media have leapt on those particular blame stories (exacerbated by some of the lawyers, who've defaulted to an "uncover the blame" mentality at times) - but to be fair to the media, that seems to be exactly what most of the public appear to want to see.

    But quite a few of the accusations over what the inquiry has been targeted to have come across as being what the accuser expects to see rather than what is or is not happening. It's probably another one of those mental whatchamacallits that was highlighted the other day, to which we're all prone.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,413
    Dura_Ace said:

    Captions please.


    OMG! Did Elon say he likes likes me?
    For a short time only, limited edition No.10 mug. Available in size small. Seen here holding a cup of tea.
  • HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    Captions please.


    Guy kneeling: Ok, listen up students. This is a very rare specimen, probably the last example we'll ever see - at least in our lifetimes - of the Conservative PM. See how it tries to bluster sincerity by reaching for where it hopes we'll believe a heart might be? Get a quick sketch of the main features before it's too late.
    If the economy is poor under a Labour government the swingback to the Conservative Opposition would be swift
    I'm naturally assuming that our lifetimes will be short due to one or more of:
    • The horrors of a Labour government
    • AI-apocalypse
    • Nuclear winter
    • The commonplace pneumonia doing the rounds in China and now DENMARK
    Remember in the May 2010 general election Brown Labour got just 29% of the vote, not much different to where the Sunak Tories are polling now. 2010 was also 13 years into a Labour government as we are now 13 years into a Tory government.

    However within a year, by May 2011 Ed Miliband's Labour was on 41% with Yougov and 38% with Opinium.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election

    If voters don't feel a new government is doing much for them and the economy isn't great they can swiftly turn against it

    Who won the 2015 election?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,130
    edited December 2023

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    DougSeal said:

    Roger said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories are going to be utterly destroyed if these polls verify

    What are they going to do?? They are on the edge of total oblivion

    Signs of the times: with the exception of thoughtful and considered articles on dog eating the Speccie is more or less unreadable; the New Statesman presents the centrist reader with a reasonably balanced consideration of how to run the country in a centrist way without actually blowing it up.

    Game over?
    The Spectator is fun, tho. The New Statesman is intolerably worthy and boring. Hence their very differing sales and profit

    But then; twas ever thus, at least for the last few decades
    Any connections to declare?

    We've now been burned very badly by politics as "fun". I don't want my politics to be entertaining. I want my politics to ensure that when I go to the hospital I get treated in a decent amount of time, there is no shit coming out of my taps when I turn them on, I can rely on getting from get from point A to point B (whether by public or private modes of transport) safely and reliably, and I can get justice from a court I choose or am required to attend.

    I don't give a flying proverbial whether that's delivered by a religious data entry clerk from Stevenage with no friends whose only hobby is painting Warhammer figurines, or the the resurrected Elvis backed by a choir of angels duetting with Freddie Mercury, but I'm not getting it from the people The Spectator routinely pump.
    I don’t disagree. The amusing toffs, drunks and bohemians have had their time

    Now let the boring lefty managers have a go

    However, I predict they will fail quite badly and end up just as hated, but without the consolation of being occasionally diverting
    I worked for a worthy but boring firm firm specialising in shipping, aviation and insurance law . When it ran into some trouble it got sold to this "fun" lawyer in April -

    https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/watch-champagne-swigging-modhwadia-parties-days-suspension

    After 3 1/2 months of this new ownership, in August it emerged that he bought my firm with millions of his clients money, I had to quit and find a new job with my team, am suffering the embarrassment of being associated in any way with the fiasco, he's under investigation by the SFO, and is likely to cost every solicitor in England & Wales £300 - £500 to compensate his clients.

    "He's lots of fun" we were assured. "His parties are great". Bollocks. He should have been struck off for those dance moves alone. And the catastrophic lack of taste.
    Yes a well known story. It would share top billing with the post office if it wasn't a bunch of lawyers who are being shafted.
    The lawyers are fine. It’s the clients who can’t get their money that are the story.
    Aren't the clients getting their money back?
    I bet the Dom Pérignon wasn't actually Dom Pérignon

    Some years back, ABN Amro was celebrating the go live of a new system. They hired out Mahiki, with the full trimmings. I wondered about, wondering if the ice sculpture/vodka drinking thing was going to result in lawsuits... Anyway, it was Dom Pérignon all the way. Supposedly.

    At about midnight the glass I was given tasted different. So I went to the bar and asked the bar tender why the Dom Pérignon poured from the bottle tasted like Veuve Clicquot. He looked at me, then gave me an unopened bottle of Dom.
    Let's see if we overlapped - when were you at ABN?
    Early 2000s
    Ah ok. I was more 'mid'. A rather 'up itself' culture in the front office, I found. Didn't stay long.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,618
    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds rather alarming.

    "Venezuela to hold referendum on seizing part of Guyana — and its oil"

    https://www.ft.com/content/a0ec9710-aa52-416b-ac79-8ada5cdab229

    It was originally a dispute with Britain over the border with British Guiana.

    Sunak could send a taskforce and get his Falklands moment.
  • Andy_JS said:

    This sounds rather alarming.

    "Venezuela to hold referendum on seizing part of Guyana — and its oil"

    https://www.ft.com/content/a0ec9710-aa52-416b-ac79-8ada5cdab229

    I am waiting for the justification for this from the Tankies & Chums.
    From the Orinoco to the Sea, Spanish Guiana will be free!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908

    HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    Captions please.


    Guy kneeling: Ok, listen up students. This is a very rare specimen, probably the last example we'll ever see - at least in our lifetimes - of the Conservative PM. See how it tries to bluster sincerity by reaching for where it hopes we'll believe a heart might be? Get a quick sketch of the main features before it's too late.
    If the economy is poor under a Labour government the swingback to the Conservative Opposition would be swift
    I'm naturally assuming that our lifetimes will be short due to one or more of:
    • The horrors of a Labour government
    • AI-apocalypse
    • Nuclear winter
    • The commonplace pneumonia doing the rounds in China and now DENMARK
    Remember in the May 2010 general election Brown Labour got just 29% of the vote, not much different to where the Sunak Tories are polling now. 2010 was also 13 years into a Labour government as we are now 13 years into a Tory government.

    However within a year, by May 2011 Ed Miliband's Labour was on 41% with Yougov and 38% with Opinium.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election

    If voters don't feel a new government is doing much for them and the economy isn't great they can swiftly turn against it

    Who won the 2015 election?
    Yes the Tories did in the end with a voteshare little different from 2010 but had a general election been held in 2011, 2012 or 2013 then Ed Miliband would probably have won it and become PM on the polling.

    Even if Starmer does win next time he is unlikely to have as long a honeymoon as Blair did and as extensive poll leads
  • Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    The inquiry seems from this vantage point to be led by sage and alternative sage types - people who could only ever believe lockdowns should have been longer and harder. There doesn't seem to be any great exploration of the costs of lockdowns.

    There has been a lot of questions around whether the government had mitigation plans around the costs of lockdowns (no), and whether they considered these costs during decision making (not much). There was, for example, a set of questions around domestic violence, was there any consideration it might go up, which department was responsible?

    There was also at least two times that the Inquiry was asking questions around how Independent SAGE operated and whether they should have used that name.
    All of which assumes you have to lock down and starts from a 'state should do more' perspective.
    No, it doesn't. We did lockdown, so it makes sense to ask questions about planned mitigations, which is exactly what you were asking for from the Inquiry!

    The question of whether lockdown was necessary or avoidable has also been examined, with witnesses noting the experience of some east Asian countries that avoided ever having to do a national lockdown.
    Yup, the way to not lockdown is not to get to the point where the options are mass lockdown or mass deaths. Stitch in time and all that. Many East Asian countries managed this stonkingly well. Europe generally didn't, and the UK was rather worse than most of the countries we like to compare ourselves to.
  • Andy_JS said:

    This sounds rather alarming.

    "Venezuela to hold referendum on seizing part of Guyana — and its oil"

    https://www.ft.com/content/a0ec9710-aa52-416b-ac79-8ada5cdab229

    It was originally a dispute with Britain over the border with British Guiana.

    Sunak could send a taskforce and get his Falklands moment.
    Hmm
    image
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds rather alarming.

    "Venezuela to hold referendum on seizing part of Guyana — and its oil"

    https://www.ft.com/content/a0ec9710-aa52-416b-ac79-8ada5cdab229

    It was originally a dispute with Britain over the border with British Guiana.

    Sunak could send a taskforce and get his Falklands moment.
    Why? Guyana is now an independent state not a British overseas territory
  • HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds rather alarming.

    "Venezuela to hold referendum on seizing part of Guyana — and its oil"

    https://www.ft.com/content/a0ec9710-aa52-416b-ac79-8ada5cdab229

    It was originally a dispute with Britain over the border with British Guiana.

    Sunak could send a taskforce and get his Falklands moment.
    Why? Guyana is now an independent state not a British overseas territory
    British Commonwealth, still.
  • The Inquiry does not seem to have even the most basic grasp of what government is for. It seems to be taking as its starting point 'how could the number of Covid deaths have been minimised', without recognising that governments have many other duties, from protecting the economy, education and civil liberties (and much else)

    That's simply not true. There has been extensive questioning about issues other than minimising the number of deaths. Indeed, the terms of reference, https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/documents/terms-of-reference/ , cover:

    "x) the impact on the mental health and wellbeing of the population, including but not limited to those who were harmed significantly by the pandemic;
    xi) the impact on the mental health and wellbeing of the bereaved, including post-bereavement support;
    xii) the impact on health and care sector workers and other key workers;
    xiii) the impact on children and young people, including health, wellbeing and social care;
    xiv) education and early years provision;
    xv) the closure and reopening of the hospitality, retail, sport and leisure, and travel and tourism sectors, places of worship, and cultural institutions;
    xvi) housing and homelessness;
    xvii) safeguarding and support for victims of domestic abuse;
    xviii) prisons and other places of detention;
    xix) the justice system;
    xx) immigration and asylum;
    xxi) travel and borders; and
    xxii) the safeguarding of public funds and management of financial risk."
    Fair enough, if so. I've not been following it in detail. All I can say is that what I have seen, the questions appear strongly slanted in the direction I described, whatever the formal terms of reference.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    edited December 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    The main thing I wanted the Covid inquiry to do was question whether lockdowns were a good idea, and whether it might have been better if young, healthy people hadn't been subjected to it. Looks like that isn't going to happen.

    As Sir Humphrey said “No Minister, I beg you. A basic rule of government is never look into anything you don’t have to, and never set up an inquiry unless you know in advance what its findings will be"
    https://twitter.com/YesSirHumphrey/status/1294489316891254784
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited December 2023
    New article by one of the best commentators out there imo. (He's British but this is an American magazine hence the spelling).

    "Theodore Dalrymple
    A Specter Haunting Europe
    The political class’s impotence in the face of so much public anxiety makes fertile soil for extremism.

    A specter is haunting Europe, and it is fascism. I don’t mean by this the insulting term that radical students have long hurled at anyone who disagreed with them in the slightest. I mean a brutal, violent mass movement that will not hesitate to intimidate, oppress, and kill in the name of a nation.

    Geert Wilders is not a fascist, but if his electoral triumph in the Netherlands (relative, not absolute) does not result in genuinely assuaging the discontents of which his triumph is a symptom, it is not unlikely that at least some of his voters will become so disillusioned with, and frustrated by, normal politics that they will look elsewhere for a solution."

    https://www.city-journal.org/article/fascism-haunts-europe
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,130
    viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:



    • Shane MacGowan
    • Henry Kissinger
    • Alaistair Darling
    • Jimmy Corkhill
    • The Grand Tour
    • Top Gear
    who's next... :(
    John Byrne https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67589431 One of those people who made me think Scotland has a point as well as a place.
    This list just how out of touch this site is with real people. Big fat leavers with a blood type of Bisto.

    Sticky Vicky died this week. That means more than everyone on that stupid fucking list.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sticky_Vicky

    I can't agree with you as to the merit of her act, sorry.
    "Due to her age and the tenure of her show, Vicky was regarded as a living Benidorm legend, particularly by British tourists and Icelandic students."

    I wonder what other specific things would bring together that rather niche coalition?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    edited December 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds rather alarming.

    "Venezuela to hold referendum on seizing part of Guyana — and its oil"

    https://www.ft.com/content/a0ec9710-aa52-416b-ac79-8ada5cdab229

    As a former British colony does this one require a detachment of HM armed forces to fly over and do a few exercises?

    Rishi would love a nice South American military adventure to turn the polls.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds rather alarming.

    "Venezuela to hold referendum on seizing part of Guyana — and its oil"

    https://www.ft.com/content/a0ec9710-aa52-416b-ac79-8ada5cdab229

    It was originally a dispute with Britain over the border with British Guiana.

    Sunak could send a taskforce and get his Falklands moment.
    Why? Guyana is now an independent state not a British overseas territory
    British Commonwealth, still.
    So what, the British Commonwealth is just a loose organisation of mainly independent states, not even an organisation of mutual self-defence like NATO
  • Dura_Ace said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:



    • Shane MacGowan
    • Henry Kissinger
    • Alaistair Darling
    • Jimmy Corkhill
    • The Grand Tour
    • Top Gear
    who's next... :(
    John Byrne https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67589431 One of those people who made me think Scotland has a point as well as a place.
    This list just how out of touch this site is with real people. Big fat leavers with a blood type of Bisto.

    Sticky Vicky died this week. That means more than everyone on that stupid fucking list.
    When I think of ping pong balls, Sticky Vicky and that patron saint of right-of-centre dads, columnist Matthew Syed come to mind. Now I’ll never see them in action together.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,413

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    The inquiry seems from this vantage point to be led by sage and alternative sage types - people who could only ever believe lockdowns should have been longer and harder. There doesn't seem to be any great exploration of the costs of lockdowns.

    I’m quite sure the enquiry will find that lockdowns should have been more stringent, and should have lasted longer.
    And they won’t even address the origin of the disease - and the part the British medical establishment played in covering up a potential lab origin, for over a year. Whatever your opinion of Covid’s origins, there WAS unquestionably a conspiracy to stop any debate about lab leak

    Absolutely outrageous. Gove mentioned it once and was instantly silenced
    The whole lot of them should be sacked and sent home. It's a disgrace, and Baroness Hallet is trashing her reputation.
    Yesterday, you were arguing that having mixed race children was medically unwise. You don't exactly seem like someone anyone should listen to on medical matters.
    You do quite a good line in cretinous yet rather malevolent distortions of other peoples' posts don't you poppet?
  • Andy_JS said:

    New article by one of the best commentators out there imo.

    "Theodore Dalrymple
    A Specter Haunting Europe
    The political class’s impotence in the face of so much public anxiety makes fertile soil for extremism.

    A specter is haunting Europe, and it is fascism. I don’t mean by this the insulting term that radical students have long hurled at anyone who disagreed with them in the slightest. I mean a brutal, violent mass movement that will not hesitate to intimidate, oppress, and kill in the name of a nation.

    Geert Wilders is not a fascist, but if his electoral triumph in the Netherlands (relative, not absolute) does not result in genuinely assuaging the discontents of which his triumph is a symptom, it is not unlikely that at least some of his voters will become so disillusioned with, and frustrated by, normal politics that they will look elsewhere for a solution."

    https://www.city-journal.org/article/fascism-haunts-europe

    It's interesting that the first successful anti-system party has been so widely ignored in this process - Syriza in Greece - perhaps because it came from the radical/populist-left rather than the -right, and commentators are mischaracterising their wins in the early 2010s as a different phenomenon.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds rather alarming.

    "Venezuela to hold referendum on seizing part of Guyana — and its oil"

    https://www.ft.com/content/a0ec9710-aa52-416b-ac79-8ada5cdab229

    As a former British colony does this one require a detachment of HM armed forces to fly over and do a few exercises?

    Rishi would love a nice South American military adventure to turn the polls.
    No, if countries decided to be independent nations and no longer under the British Crown they can defend themselves.

    British taxpayers don't need to do it!
  • Andy_JS said:

    New article by one of the best commentators out there imo. (He's British but this is an American magazine hence the spelling).

    "Theodore Dalrymple
    A Specter Haunting Europe
    The political class’s impotence in the face of so much public anxiety makes fertile soil for extremism.

    A specter is haunting Europe, and it is fascism. I don’t mean by this the insulting term that radical students have long hurled at anyone who disagreed with them in the slightest. I mean a brutal, violent mass movement that will not hesitate to intimidate, oppress, and kill in the name of a nation.

    Geert Wilders is not a fascist, but if his electoral triumph in the Netherlands (relative, not absolute) does not result in genuinely assuaging the discontents of which his triumph is a symptom, it is not unlikely that at least some of his voters will become so disillusioned with, and frustrated by, normal politics that they will look elsewhere for a solution."

    https://www.city-journal.org/article/fascism-haunts-europe

    Sounds like Dalrymple's solution to counter the fascist threat is to persecute the alien.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds rather alarming.

    "Venezuela to hold referendum on seizing part of Guyana — and its oil"

    https://www.ft.com/content/a0ec9710-aa52-416b-ac79-8ada5cdab229

    It was originally a dispute with Britain over the border with British Guiana.

    Sunak could send a taskforce and get his Falklands moment.
    A few crates of NLAWs and a visit from Johnson are the supreme prophylaxis against hostile invasion from a much bigger neighbour.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds rather alarming.

    "Venezuela to hold referendum on seizing part of Guyana — and its oil"

    https://www.ft.com/content/a0ec9710-aa52-416b-ac79-8ada5cdab229

    It was originally a dispute with Britain over the border with British Guiana.

    Sunak could send a taskforce and get his Falklands moment.
    Why? Guyana is now an independent state not a British overseas territory
    British Commonwealth, still.
    So what, the British Commonwealth is just a loose organisation of mainly independent states, not even an organisation of mutual self-defence like NATO
    So you would favour abolishing the Commonwealth? Is that correct?
  • HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds rather alarming.

    "Venezuela to hold referendum on seizing part of Guyana — and its oil"

    https://www.ft.com/content/a0ec9710-aa52-416b-ac79-8ada5cdab229

    It was originally a dispute with Britain over the border with British Guiana.

    Sunak could send a taskforce and get his Falklands moment.
    Why? Guyana is now an independent state not a British overseas territory
    Depends on whether Guyana requests assistance. Preventing another war breaking out might be a good thing. Perhaps the US could be persuaded to chip in a few troops and deter any Venzuealan nonsense. Proactive deployment would have a helpful deterrence effect.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Ghedebrav said:

    eek said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT

    isam said:

    Apparently your Christmas song is

    No 1 at Christmas when you were 10 sang by the last artist you listened to in your phone

    Do They Know it’s Christmas by The Smiths was mine

    DAY TRIPPER/WE CAN WORK IT OUT by Luciano pavarotti for me

    apart from the fact this quiz reveals how old everyone is (not important but a lot of quizzes are designed to trick you into revealing details of yourself. I half suspect mine actually exists

    DON'T YOU WANT ME - by the Sundays..
    Haha, mine would be Bohemian Rhapsody performed by The Pogues.
    Do They Know its Christmas performed by Chris Cornell
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Dura_Ace said:

    Captions please.


    OMG! Did Elon say he likes likes me?
    We have a winner.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,413
    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds rather alarming.

    "Venezuela to hold referendum on seizing part of Guyana — and its oil"

    https://www.ft.com/content/a0ec9710-aa52-416b-ac79-8ada5cdab229

    As a former British colony does this one require a detachment of HM armed forces to fly over and do a few exercises?

    Rishi would love a nice South American military adventure to turn the polls.
    No, if countries decided to be independent nations and no longer under the British Crown they can defend themselves.

    British taxpayers don't need to do it!
    Ukraine was an independent nation not under the British Crown last time I checked.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds rather alarming.

    "Venezuela to hold referendum on seizing part of Guyana — and its oil"

    https://www.ft.com/content/a0ec9710-aa52-416b-ac79-8ada5cdab229

    As a former British colony does this one require a detachment of HM armed forces to fly over and do a few exercises?

    Rishi would love a nice South American military adventure to turn the polls.
    No, if countries decided to be independent nations and no longer under the British Crown they can defend themselves.

    British taxpayers don't need to do it!
    It would be a betrayal of the late Queen's legacy not to intervene. Are you a traditional Conservative or not?

    🎵Rule Britannia🎵

  • HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    Captions please.


    Guy kneeling: Ok, listen up students. This is a very rare specimen, probably the last example we'll ever see - at least in our lifetimes - of the Conservative PM. See how it tries to bluster sincerity by reaching for where it hopes we'll believe a heart might be? Get a quick sketch of the main features before it's too late.
    If the economy is poor under a Labour government the swingback to the Conservative Opposition would be swift
    I'm naturally assuming that our lifetimes will be short due to one or more of:
    • The horrors of a Labour government
    • AI-apocalypse
    • Nuclear winter
    • The commonplace pneumonia doing the rounds in China and now DENMARK
    Remember in the May 2010 general election Brown Labour got just 29% of the vote, not much different to where the Sunak Tories are polling now. 2010 was also 13 years into a Labour government as we are now 13 years into a Tory government.

    However within a year, by May 2011 Ed Miliband's Labour was on 41% with Yougov and 38% with Opinium.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election

    If voters don't feel a new government is doing much for them and the economy isn't great they can swiftly turn against it

    True. But that doesn't mean they'll necessarily turn to the Tories.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,224
    Cookie said:

    I go out each Christmas with some friends for a Christmas meal.
    This year, we're going to a vegetarian restaurant. It's supposed to be nice. But everything on the menu sounds like a side order. Vegetables aren't a meal, they're things you have with a meal.

    No venison on the menu I hope? We know what trouble that can cause.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    edited December 2023
    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds rather alarming.

    "Venezuela to hold referendum on seizing part of Guyana — and its oil"

    https://www.ft.com/content/a0ec9710-aa52-416b-ac79-8ada5cdab229

    As a former British colony does this one require a detachment of HM armed forces to fly over and do a few exercises?

    Rishi would love a nice South American military adventure to turn the polls.
    No, if countries decided to be independent nations and no longer under the British Crown they can defend themselves.

    British taxpayers don't need to do it!
    It would be a betrayal of the late Queen's legacy not to intervene. Are you a traditional Conservative or not?

    🎵Rule Britannia🎵

    Guyana rejected the late Queen when they became a Republic in 1970.

    So tough, they are on their own unless the UN intervene
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    Captions please.


    Guy kneeling: Ok, listen up students. This is a very rare specimen, probably the last example we'll ever see - at least in our lifetimes - of the Conservative PM. See how it tries to bluster sincerity by reaching for where it hopes we'll believe a heart might be? Get a quick sketch of the main features before it's too late.
    If the economy is poor under a Labour government the swingback to the Conservative Opposition would be swift
    I'm naturally assuming that our lifetimes will be short due to one or more of:
    • The horrors of a Labour government
    • AI-apocalypse
    • Nuclear winter
    • The commonplace pneumonia doing the rounds in China and now DENMARK
    Remember in the May 2010 general election Brown Labour got just 29% of the vote, not much different to where the Sunak Tories are polling now. 2010 was also 13 years into a Labour government as we are now 13 years into a Tory government.

    However within a year, by May 2011 Ed Miliband's Labour was on 41% with Yougov and 38% with Opinium.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election

    If voters don't feel a new government is doing much for them and the economy isn't great they can swiftly turn against it

    Relax. I'm not (and was never) seriously suggesting that Sunak will be the last Conservative PM of our lifetimes.

    Afterall, there's a non-zero* chance of another Conservative PM within the next year or so :wink:

    (And yes, electoral cycles etc - unless the Cons go full tonto and either split or the LDs find a great leader/new party is set up and actually works this time,** the Cons will be back in power well within a timescale that I very much hope will be within my lifetime. The only way it might not happen would be under PR where the inevitable splits of parties would produce a new leading centre-right party that was not the Conservative Party.

    *although very small, I think
    **these are even more vanishingly small, particularly the last
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,130

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    The inquiry seems from this vantage point to be led by sage and alternative sage types - people who could only ever believe lockdowns should have been longer and harder. There doesn't seem to be any great exploration of the costs of lockdowns.

    I’m quite sure the enquiry will find that lockdowns should have been more stringent, and should have lasted longer.
    And they won’t even address the origin of the disease - and the part the British medical establishment played in covering up a potential lab origin, for over a year. Whatever your opinion of Covid’s origins, there WAS unquestionably a conspiracy to stop any debate about lab leak

    Absolutely outrageous. Gove mentioned it once and was instantly silenced
    The whole lot of them should be sacked and sent home. It's a disgrace, and Baroness Hallet is trashing her reputation.
    Yesterday, you were arguing that having mixed race children was medically unwise. You don't exactly seem like someone anyone should listen to on medical matters.
    You do quite a good line in cretinous yet rather malevolent distortions of other peoples' posts don't you poppet?
    Hardly needed when the PBer in question once said they wouldn't hesitate to 'like' a post by Hitler if it was a good one.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    Andy_JS said:

    New article by one of the best commentators out there imo. (He's British but this is an American magazine hence the spelling).

    "Theodore Dalrymple
    A Specter Haunting Europe
    The political class’s impotence in the face of so much public anxiety makes fertile soil for extremism.

    A specter is haunting Europe, and it is fascism. I don’t mean by this the insulting term that radical students have long hurled at anyone who disagreed with them in the slightest. I mean a brutal, violent mass movement that will not hesitate to intimidate, oppress, and kill in the name of a nation.

    Geert Wilders is not a fascist, but if his electoral triumph in the Netherlands (relative, not absolute) does not result in genuinely assuaging the discontents of which his triumph is a symptom, it is not unlikely that at least some of his voters will become so disillusioned with, and frustrated by, normal politics that they will look elsewhere for a solution."

    https://www.city-journal.org/article/fascism-haunts-europe

    The article appears to be arguing that we have to be a bit fascist to stop more fascist fascists coming along. I am not persuaded.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds rather alarming.

    "Venezuela to hold referendum on seizing part of Guyana — and its oil"

    https://www.ft.com/content/a0ec9710-aa52-416b-ac79-8ada5cdab229

    As a former British colony does this one require a detachment of HM armed forces to fly over and do a few exercises?

    Rishi would love a nice South American military adventure to turn the polls.
    No, if countries decided to be independent nations and no longer under the British Crown they can defend themselves.

    British taxpayers don't need to do it!
    Ukraine was an independent nation not under the British Crown last time I checked.
    Yes and last time I checked we haven't gone to war with Russia either
  • James Dyson loses libel claim against Daily Mirror publisher
    Inventor alleged article criticising his championing of Brexit and move to Singapore was ‘vicious and vitriolic’

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/dec/01/james-dyson-loses-libel-claim-daily-mirror-publisher
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds rather alarming.

    "Venezuela to hold referendum on seizing part of Guyana — and its oil"

    https://www.ft.com/content/a0ec9710-aa52-416b-ac79-8ada5cdab229

    As a former British colony does this one require a detachment of HM armed forces to fly over and do a few exercises?

    Rishi would love a nice South American military adventure to turn the polls.
    No, if countries decided to be independent nations and no longer under the British Crown they can defend themselves.

    British taxpayers don't need to do it!
    It would be a betrayal of the late Queen's legacy not to intervene. Are you a traditional Conservative or not?

    🎵Rule Britannia🎵

    Guyana rejected the late Queen when they became a Republic in 1970.

    So tough, they are on their own unless the UN intervene
    You'd send a tank division to Glasgow - why not spare a frigate for Guyana?

    What on earth do the Venezuelans have on you?!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds rather alarming.

    "Venezuela to hold referendum on seizing part of Guyana — and its oil"

    https://www.ft.com/content/a0ec9710-aa52-416b-ac79-8ada5cdab229

    It was originally a dispute with Britain over the border with British Guiana.

    Sunak could send a taskforce and get his Falklands moment.
    Why? Guyana is now an independent state not a British overseas territory
    British Commonwealth, still.
    So what, the British Commonwealth is just a loose organisation of mainly independent states, not even an organisation of mutual self-defence like NATO
    So you would favour abolishing the Commonwealth? Is that correct?
    No but it is a loose organisation for trade and cultural ties nothing more
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds rather alarming.

    "Venezuela to hold referendum on seizing part of Guyana — and its oil"

    https://www.ft.com/content/a0ec9710-aa52-416b-ac79-8ada5cdab229

    As a former British colony does this one require a detachment of HM armed forces to fly over and do a few exercises?

    Rishi would love a nice South American military adventure to turn the polls.
    President Monroe is on the phone. Wants to chat about his doctrine.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,413
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds rather alarming.

    "Venezuela to hold referendum on seizing part of Guyana — and its oil"

    https://www.ft.com/content/a0ec9710-aa52-416b-ac79-8ada5cdab229

    As a former British colony does this one require a detachment of HM armed forces to fly over and do a few exercises?

    Rishi would love a nice South American military adventure to turn the polls.
    No, if countries decided to be independent nations and no longer under the British Crown they can defend themselves.

    British taxpayers don't need to do it!
    Ukraine was an independent nation not under the British Crown last time I checked.
    Yes and last time I checked we haven't gone to war with Russia either
    But the British taxpayer is on the hook for our contribution.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    The inquiry seems from this vantage point to be led by sage and alternative sage types - people who could only ever believe lockdowns should have been longer and harder. There doesn't seem to be any great exploration of the costs of lockdowns.

    I’m quite sure the enquiry will find that lockdowns should have been more stringent, and should have lasted longer.
    And they won’t even address the origin of the disease - and the part the British medical establishment played in covering up a potential lab origin, for over a year. Whatever your opinion of Covid’s origins, there WAS unquestionably a conspiracy to stop any debate about lab leak

    Absolutely outrageous. Gove mentioned it once and was instantly silenced
    The whole lot of them should be sacked and sent home. It's a disgrace, and Baroness Hallet is trashing her reputation.
    Yesterday, you were arguing that having mixed race children was medically unwise. You don't exactly seem like someone anyone should listen to on medical matters.
    You do quite a good line in cretinous yet rather malevolent distortions of other peoples' posts don't you poppet?
    Feel free to re-post your nonsense of yesterday for everyone to see.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    On topic, it's reassuring to read that most PBers can draw conclusions about both the future narrative and the outcomes of an Inquiry that is still in its early days and has years to run. Bravo.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    James Dyson loses libel claim against Daily Mirror publisher
    Inventor alleged article criticising his championing of Brexit and move to Singapore was ‘vicious and vitriolic’

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/dec/01/james-dyson-loses-libel-claim-daily-mirror-publisher

    It's a really odd one - he seemed very unlikely to win and now he's just got costs, presumably, and a judge saying that what was printed is substantially true.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    edited December 2023

    Andy_JS said:

    New article by one of the best commentators out there imo. (He's British but this is an American magazine hence the spelling).

    "Theodore Dalrymple
    A Specter Haunting Europe
    The political class’s impotence in the face of so much public anxiety makes fertile soil for extremism.

    A specter is haunting Europe, and it is fascism. I don’t mean by this the insulting term that radical students have long hurled at anyone who disagreed with them in the slightest. I mean a brutal, violent mass movement that will not hesitate to intimidate, oppress, and kill in the name of a nation.

    Geert Wilders is not a fascist, but if his electoral triumph in the Netherlands (relative, not absolute) does not result in genuinely assuaging the discontents of which his triumph is a symptom, it is not unlikely that at least some of his voters will become so disillusioned with, and frustrated by, normal politics that they will look elsewhere for a solution."

    https://www.city-journal.org/article/fascism-haunts-europe

    The article appears to be arguing that we have to be a bit fascist to stop more fascist fascists coming along. I am not persuaded.
    Alternatively,

    2) Stick our fingers in our ears and scream LA-LA-LA
    3) Try some rational policies to alleviate actual problems. Like stop denying that a population growing at x% a decade needs x% growth in housing and other facilities. And actually fucking build them.
This discussion has been closed.