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Low expectations – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,214
edited December 2023 in General
Low expectations – politicalbetting.com

How much, if anything, do you think the UK COVID?19 Inquiry will achieve?A great deal/fair amount: 16%Not very much/nothing: 74%https://t.co/GHdSyKCUZh pic.twitter.com/YAyPbomHC3

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Comments

  • First?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,193

    First?

    Of course.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,193
    On topic, there might be the odd interesting revelation, but given its terms of reference, I expect the enquiry to achieve very little.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,193
    Dog meat traders up in arms over gov't plan to end dog meat consumption
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=364239
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,019
    I heard a bit of Hancock yesterday when driving home. It frankly seemed pointless. The KC was very good and Hancock was not particularly persuasive in parts but so what? They seemed desperate to get him on the record stating that the PM had "careered off course" again.

    Hancock, bless him, seemed to think he was there for a purpose and had clearly thought as deeply as he is capable about what went wrong and right but the level of interest was minimal. What they wanted to play was the blame game. It's frankly annoying.
  • I remember on here a few months ago much excited commentary about how Elon Musk had brilliantly fired most of Twitter’s woke leftie staff and was turning it into a viable, profit making business on the back of growing ad revenues. How’s that going?

    I also seemed to remember all the excited commentary that twitter would fall over completely with reduction in staff. That it wasn't technically possible to run twitter with a much reduced headcount.

    Some of pointed out that WhatsApp ran fine with 50 people serving 100s of millions before they were bought, and that much of the traffic management etc is provided by other tech companies.

    Now the business side, I think most thought it was crazy business to be getting into in the first place. It never makes money (the two years it did, on closer inspection were largely down to accounting tricks which meant some of the other others didn't lose quite as much). And it had doubled head count during the pandemic, with seemingly no new features or improvements.

    Musk clearly tried to play chicken and lost, and now saddled with this thing and doing himself no favours being all Trumpy.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,019
    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,127
    DavidL said:

    I heard a bit of Hancock yesterday when driving home. It frankly seemed pointless. The KC was very good and Hancock was not particularly persuasive in parts but so what? They seemed desperate to get him on the record stating that the PM had "careered off course" again.

    Hancock, bless him, seemed to think he was there for a purpose and had clearly thought as deeply as he is capable about what went wrong and right but the level of interest was minimal. What they wanted to play was the blame game. It's frankly annoying.

    Yes, any utility in terms of being better prepared for any future health crisis is being destroyed by petty political tittle tattle.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,507
    edited December 2023
    DavidL said:

    I heard a bit of Hancock yesterday when driving home. It frankly seemed pointless. The KC was very good and Hancock was not particularly persuasive in parts but so what? They seemed desperate to get him on the record stating that the PM had "careered off course" again.

    Hancock, bless him, seemed to think he was there for a purpose and had clearly thought as deeply as he is capable about what went wrong and right but the level of interest was minimal. What they wanted to play was the blame game. It's frankly annoying.

    The whole thing is so overwhelmingly skewed towards these inter-personal dramas. Its seems very just like it is being run like a trial to find certain individuals guilty, not to actually find out how things can be improved.

    Boris was shit as a leader, we know that. Now what can we actually do better.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,507
    edited December 2023
    We keep being told this is only one of many units of investigation, but even when we get away from the political characters in the play like Big Dom, when the scientists are called, it all still swiftly focuses in on well yes, but what about what politician said or did, what did you write in your diary about that day, oh you said bad words about this politician.

    I blame lawyers ;-)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,127
    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    Yes, one of the Pogues best songs.

    The only members of my family to die in war were my Great Grandfather and a Great Great Uncle, who were ANZACS in the Gallipolli campaign, so it really hits home.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Completely off topic: I absolutely LOVE Unifi networking gear.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,039

    DavidL said:

    I heard a bit of Hancock yesterday when driving home. It frankly seemed pointless. The KC was very good and Hancock was not particularly persuasive in parts but so what? They seemed desperate to get him on the record stating that the PM had "careered off course" again.

    Hancock, bless him, seemed to think he was there for a purpose and had clearly thought as deeply as he is capable about what went wrong and right but the level of interest was minimal. What they wanted to play was the blame game. It's frankly annoying.

    The whole thing is so overwhelmingly skewed towards these inter-personal dramas. Its seems very just like it is being run like a trial to find certain individuals guilty, not to actually find out how things can be improved.

    Boris was shit as a leader, we know that. Now what can we actually do better.
    That's the problem in a nutshell. They don't want to get to that. You are quite right. It is all interpersonal drama as you say. He said, she said, let's blame people. It should all be about what went wrong and how do we improve for the next time, as there will be a next time.

    Another wasted opportunity.
  • DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,039
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    Yes, one of the Pogues best songs.

    The only members of my family to die in war were my Great Grandfather and a Great Great Uncle, who were ANZACS in the Gallipolli campaign, so it really hits home.
    I know when someone dies to eulogise them but ITV main news bulletin proclaimed McGowan as one of the finest songwriters of his generation.

    Seriously !!!!

    I Am sure he wrote a few good tracks but that is a real stretch

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    FPT

    isam said:

    Apparently your Christmas song is

    No 1 at Christmas when you were 10 sang by the last artist you listened to in your phone

    Do They Know it’s Christmas by The Smiths was mine

    DAY TRIPPER/WE CAN WORK IT OUT by Luciano pavarotti for me
  • malcolmg said:

    FPT

    isam said:

    Apparently your Christmas song is

    No 1 at Christmas when you were 10 sang by the last artist you listened to in your phone

    Do They Know it’s Christmas by The Smiths was mine

    DAY TRIPPER/WE CAN WORK IT OUT by Luciano pavarotti for me

    Mistletoe and Wine by Miley Cyrus.

    If anyone wants to have a go at me for listening to Miley Cyrus I will just say 'Flowers' is one of the best break up songs ever.

    I am also slightly obsessed by her cover of Heart of Glass.

    A few years ago I had a random station playing on Apple Music and it started playing a cover of Heart of Glass and I thought this is good/different, I was shocked into silence when I looked to see it was actually Miley Cyrus.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbdRLyixJpc
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,039

    malcolmg said:

    FPT

    isam said:

    Apparently your Christmas song is

    No 1 at Christmas when you were 10 sang by the last artist you listened to in your phone

    Do They Know it’s Christmas by The Smiths was mine

    DAY TRIPPER/WE CAN WORK IT OUT by Luciano pavarotti for me

    Mistletoe and Wine by Miley Cyrus.

    If anyone wants to have a go at me for listening to Miley Cyrus I will just say 'Flowers' is one of the best break up songs ever.

    I am also slightly obsessed by her cover of Heart of Glass.

    A few years ago I had a random station playing on Apple Music and it started playing a cover of Heart of Glass and I thought this is good/different, I was shocked into silence when I looked to see it was actually Miley Cyrus.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbdRLyixJpc

    Bohemian Rhapsody by The Eagles for me.

    Miley Cyrus has a really talented Dad too, with his Achy Breaky Heart.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,590
    edited December 2023
    malcolmg said:

    FPT

    isam said:

    Apparently your Christmas song is

    No 1 at Christmas when you were 10 sang by the last artist you listened to in your phone

    Do They Know it’s Christmas by The Smiths was mine

    DAY TRIPPER/WE CAN WORK IT OUT by Luciano pavarotti for me

    apart from the fact this quiz reveals how old everyone is (not important but a lot of quizzes are designed to trick you into revealing details of yourself. I half suspect mine actually exists

    DON'T YOU WANT ME - by the Sundays..
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,127
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    Yes, one of the Pogues best songs.

    The only members of my family to die in war were my Great Grandfather and a Great Great Uncle, who were ANZACS in the Gallipolli campaign, so it really hits home.
    I know when someone dies to eulogise them but ITV main news bulletin proclaimed McGowan as one of the finest songwriters of his generation.

    Seriously !!!!

    I Am sure he wrote a few good tracks but that is a real stretch

    A couple of very good albums, of which "Rum, Sodomy and the Lash" is the best, benefiting from being produced by Elvis Costello, but yes a bit over the top.

    Quite significant part of the revival of interest in folk music in the eighties, particularly folk music with a social edge.
  • Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    Yes, one of the Pogues best songs.

    The only members of my family to die in war were my Great Grandfather and a Great Great Uncle, who were ANZACS in the Gallipolli campaign, so it really hits home.
    Not a Pogues song: And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda was a cover, notable mainly for SM mispronouncing quay which ought to rhyme with Gallipoli. RIP.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,147
    edited December 2023

    DavidL said:

    I heard a bit of Hancock yesterday when driving home. It frankly seemed pointless. The KC was very good and Hancock was not particularly persuasive in parts but so what? They seemed desperate to get him on the record stating that the PM had "careered off course" again.

    Hancock, bless him, seemed to think he was there for a purpose and had clearly thought as deeply as he is capable about what went wrong and right but the level of interest was minimal. What they wanted to play was the blame game. It's frankly annoying.

    The whole thing is so overwhelmingly skewed towards these inter-personal dramas. Its seems very just like it is being run like a trial to find certain individuals guilty, not to actually find out how things can be improved.

    Boris was shit as a leader, we know that. Now what can we actually do better.
    I listened live, and thought that Hancock played a difficult position reasonably well (with some still to come this morning).

    We all know Boris was a shit leader; indeed most of us saw that coming. Anyone who had paid London politics any attention knew the truth, and of course I had already seen it, on occasions from the inside.

    You're right that the line of questioning from that KC doesn't appear chiefly concerned with learning lessons for next time, although the (rare) interventions from the Chair suggests that she does have this very much in mind.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,019

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    Superb. I especially like the penultimate verse.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,590
    rcs1000 said:

    Completely off topic: I absolutely LOVE Unifi networking gear.

    For a home the Asus routers really just work together without issues.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,019
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    Yes, one of the Pogues best songs.

    The only members of my family to die in war were my Great Grandfather and a Great Great Uncle, who were ANZACS in the Gallipolli campaign, so it really hits home.
    My grandfather died at Alamein serving with the Black Watch leaving a widow and 3 very young boys of whom my father was the eldest. I think he must have been 7.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,127

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    Yes, one of the Pogues best songs.

    The only members of my family to die in war were my Great Grandfather and a Great Great Uncle, who were ANZACS in the Gallipolli campaign, so it really hits home.
    Not a Pogues song: And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda was a cover, notable mainly for SM mispronouncing quay which ought to rhyme with Gallipoli. RIP.
    Yes, a cover, but the first time I heard of the song, possibly the best anti-war song of all time.

    Wrong though, as Anzac Day is still marked by parades and dawn attendance over a century later. I was in Sydney for it about 20 years ago.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    eek said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT

    isam said:

    Apparently your Christmas song is

    No 1 at Christmas when you were 10 sang by the last artist you listened to in your phone

    Do They Know it’s Christmas by The Smiths was mine

    DAY TRIPPER/WE CAN WORK IT OUT by Luciano pavarotti for me

    apart from the fact this quiz reveals how old everyone is (not important but a lot of quizzes are designed to trick you into revealing details of yourself. I half suspect mine actually exists

    DON'T YOU WANT ME - by the Sundays..
    Merry Xmas Everybody by Everything But the Girl. Intriguing.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,834
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    Yes, one of the Pogues best songs.

    The only members of my family to die in war were my Great Grandfather and a Great Great Uncle, who were ANZACS in the Gallipolli campaign, so it really hits home.
    My grandfather died at Alamein serving with the Black Watch leaving a widow and 3 very young boys of whom my father was the eldest. I think he must have been 7.
    My father was a medic who retrained in India because of shortages of anaesthetists in the Burma campaign. He got a Dear John letter and that's why I am here! He came back to Liverpool in late 45 or early 46 on a boat with POW' s and many of them who were physically in a mess anyway didn't make it as a result of cruelty by the Japs.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,127
    edited December 2023
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    Yes, one of the Pogues best songs.

    The only members of my family to die in war were my Great Grandfather and a Great Great Uncle, who were ANZACS in the Gallipolli campaign, so it really hits home.
    My grandfather died at Alamein serving with the Black Watch leaving a widow and 3 very young boys of whom my father was the eldest. I think he must have been 7.
    My grandfather and his brother were in their early teens when they lost their dad to the war. Australia was pretty depressed in the Twenties, and they had a pretty hard time of it. As a result they came to Britain to see the Old Country and never went back for more than a holiday. Not many happy memories there for them.

    Though if they hadn't migrated to England my parents wouldn't have met, and I wouldn't exist, so perhaps Winston Churchill and the Turks did me a favour.

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,453

    We keep being told this is only one of many units of investigation, but even when we get away from the political characters in the play like Big Dom, when the scientists are called, it all still swiftly focuses in on well yes, but what about what politician said or did, what did you write in your diary about that day, oh you said bad words about this politician.

    I blame lawyers ;-)

    I’m not listening to it live but is that all the enquiry or is it just journalists reporting the gossipy bits?
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    Superb. I especially like the penultimate verse.
    The last line of the song gets me every time. It is so beautifully opaque but also somehow freighted with meaning. It's probably my favourite line in any pop song.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,834
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67584668

    I just don't get this. Everyone knows Brown..or his cohorts briefed against colleagues. I think even less of him now if that's actually possible.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    Yes, one of the Pogues best songs.

    The only members of my family to die in war were my Great Grandfather and a Great Great Uncle, who were ANZACS in the Gallipolli campaign, so it really hits home.
    My grandfather died at Alamein serving with the Black Watch leaving a widow and 3 very young boys of whom my father was the eldest. I think he must have been 7.
    My grandfather and his brother were in their early teens when they lost their dad to the war. Australia was pretty depressed in the Twenties, and they had a pretty hard time of it. As a result they came to Britain to see the Old Country and never went back for more than a holiday. Not many happy memories there for them.

    Though if they hadn't migrated to England my parents wouldn't have met, and I wouldn't exist, so perhaps Winston Churchill and the Turks did me a favour.

    My great uncle was gassed at Ypres (he lied about his age, and joined up at 15). Somehow, he survived another 50 years.

    My mother lived opposite a woman in Dublin, who had two sons killed in WWI, and two more in WWII. I don’t know how she could cope with that.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    rcs1000 said:

    Completely off topic: I absolutely LOVE Unifi networking gear.

    About as reliable as Vanilla...
  • https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67584668

    I just don't get this. Everyone knows Brown..or his cohorts briefed against colleagues. I think even less of him now if that's actually possible.

    Darling was the worst Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer since Philip Snowden. He also made a complete mess of Sindyref. RIP.
  • eek said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT

    isam said:

    Apparently your Christmas song is

    No 1 at Christmas when you were 10 sang by the last artist you listened to in your phone

    Do They Know it’s Christmas by The Smiths was mine

    DAY TRIPPER/WE CAN WORK IT OUT by Luciano pavarotti for me

    apart from the fact this quiz reveals how old everyone is (not important but a lot of quizzes are designed to trick you into revealing details of yourself. I half suspect mine actually exists

    DON'T YOU WANT ME - by the Sundays..
    If it doesn't, it should.

    Whilst they had exactly the right idea of stopping and getting on with the rest of their lives, I miss the songs that didn't happen.

    Oh, and similarly plausibly, Only You by the Divine Comedy.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    DavidL said:

    I heard a bit of Hancock yesterday when driving home. It frankly seemed pointless. The KC was very good and Hancock was not particularly persuasive in parts but so what? They seemed desperate to get him on the record stating that the PM had "careered off course" again.

    Hancock, bless him, seemed to think he was there for a purpose and had clearly thought as deeply as he is capable about what went wrong and right but the level of interest was minimal. What they wanted to play was the blame game. It's frankly annoying.

    It is a rarity, in life, that you can say with complete certainty that a man looks like he’d rather be eating a camel’s dick. But it really can now be stated as an established fact that there is nothing on earth that Matt Hancock finds harder to swallow than the things he’s said and done.

    For six and a half hours at the Covid inquiry, his many ineptitudes were tipped on top of him like buckets of cockroaches. He was lowered into his own untruths as if they were a sewer of rats. There, in front of three long banks of rather bored-looking lawyers, he was forced to poke his head into a transparent dome of his own slithering inadequacies. And this time there were no stars to reach for.

    It is barely weeks since he was punched in the face on TV by a bankrupt former footballer, an experience he would clearly rather go through again, than come back here, as he will do several more times in the coming months.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/matt-hancocks-ring-of-self-protection-fails-in-another-tv-humiliation-ts0zbjsr6
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,039

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67584668

    I just don't get this. Everyone knows Brown..or his cohorts briefed against colleagues. I think even less of him now if that's actually possible.

    How this inept buffoon seems to be acquiring a status as a wise elder statesman beggars belief.

    People have short memories

    ISTR Alistair Darlings wife having a few choice words about the briefing against him and where it was coming from.
  • IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    I heard a bit of Hancock yesterday when driving home. It frankly seemed pointless. The KC was very good and Hancock was not particularly persuasive in parts but so what? They seemed desperate to get him on the record stating that the PM had "careered off course" again.

    Hancock, bless him, seemed to think he was there for a purpose and had clearly thought as deeply as he is capable about what went wrong and right but the level of interest was minimal. What they wanted to play was the blame game. It's frankly annoying.

    The whole thing is so overwhelmingly skewed towards these inter-personal dramas. Its seems very just like it is being run like a trial to find certain individuals guilty, not to actually find out how things can be improved.

    Boris was shit as a leader, we know that. Now what can we actually do better.
    I listened live, and thought that Hancock played a difficult position reasonably well (with some still to come this morning).

    We all know Boris was a shit leader; indeed most of us saw that coming. Anyone who had paid London politics any attention knew the truth, and of course I had already seen it, on occasions from the inside.

    You're right that the line of questioning from that KC doesn't appear chiefly concerned with learning lessons for next time, although the (rare) interventions from the Chair suggests that she does have this very much in mind.
    Part of the trouble is that one of the key lessons is "don't have a government made up of people whose main talent is factional infighting".

    Hopefully, some of the more technical bits of the inquiry will be more useful.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,002
    Rishi Sunak, David Cameron, and the King, all in the sandpit this morning.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,039

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    Superb. I especially like the penultimate verse.
    The last line of the song gets me every time. It is so beautifully opaque but also somehow freighted with meaning. It's probably my favourite line in any pop song.
    Talking of fabulous lyrics Roger Waters "Hanging on in Quiet desperation is the English way" is just magnificent.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,127

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    I heard a bit of Hancock yesterday when driving home. It frankly seemed pointless. The KC was very good and Hancock was not particularly persuasive in parts but so what? They seemed desperate to get him on the record stating that the PM had "careered off course" again.

    Hancock, bless him, seemed to think he was there for a purpose and had clearly thought as deeply as he is capable about what went wrong and right but the level of interest was minimal. What they wanted to play was the blame game. It's frankly annoying.

    The whole thing is so overwhelmingly skewed towards these inter-personal dramas. Its seems very just like it is being run like a trial to find certain individuals guilty, not to actually find out how things can be improved.

    Boris was shit as a leader, we know that. Now what can we actually do better.
    I listened live, and thought that Hancock played a difficult position reasonably well (with some still to come this morning).

    We all know Boris was a shit leader; indeed most of us saw that coming. Anyone who had paid London politics any attention knew the truth, and of course I had already seen it, on occasions from the inside.

    You're right that the line of questioning from that KC doesn't appear chiefly concerned with learning lessons for next time, although the (rare) interventions from the Chair suggests that she does have this very much in mind.
    Part of the trouble is that one of the key lessons is "don't have a government made up of people whose main talent is factional infighting".

    Hopefully, some of the more technical bits of the inquiry will be more useful.
    Aren't all governments made up of people whose main talent is factional infighting (otherwise known as party politics)?

    Though perhaps the infantile level that this was often conducted at by the Johnson government is perhaps not usual.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,076
    The inquiry seems from this vantage point to be led by sage and alternative sage types - people who could only ever believe lockdowns should have been longer and harder. There doesn't seem to be any great exploration of the costs of lockdowns.
  • Sandpit said:

    Rishi Sunak, David Cameron, and the King, all in the sandpit this morning.

    And my wife. What illustrious company for her.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538
    Cookie said:

    The inquiry seems from this vantage point to be led by sage and alternative sage types - people who could only ever believe lockdowns should have been longer and harder. There doesn't seem to be any great exploration of the costs of lockdowns.

    I’m quite sure the enquiry will find that lockdowns should have been more stringent, and should have lasted longer.
  • DavidL said:

    I heard a bit of Hancock yesterday when driving home. It frankly seemed pointless. The KC was very good and Hancock was not particularly persuasive in parts but so what? They seemed desperate to get him on the record stating that the PM had "careered off course" again.

    Hancock, bless him, seemed to think he was there for a purpose and had clearly thought as deeply as he is capable about what went wrong and right but the level of interest was minimal. What they wanted to play was the blame game. It's frankly annoying.

    That's exactly why the inquiry was set-up, and what it will aim to conclude with.

    It's why I'm paying it very little attention.
  • Both my grandparents were in the Indian Army, and thus fortunate enough to survive the war.

    Most British troops out there focused on deterrence of the Japanese and internal security duties, and only a very modest number were even in Slim's 14th Army.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,473
    Cookie said:

    The inquiry seems from this vantage point to be led by sage and alternative sage types - people who could only ever believe lockdowns should have been longer and harder. There doesn't seem to be any great exploration of the costs of lockdowns.

    There has been a lot of questions around whether the government had mitigation plans around the costs of lockdowns (no), and whether they considered these costs during decision making (not much). There was, for example, a set of questions around domestic violence, was there any consideration it might go up, which department was responsible?

    There was also at least two times that the Inquiry was asking questions around how Independent SAGE operated and whether they should have used that name.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,039

    DavidL said:

    I heard a bit of Hancock yesterday when driving home. It frankly seemed pointless. The KC was very good and Hancock was not particularly persuasive in parts but so what? They seemed desperate to get him on the record stating that the PM had "careered off course" again.

    Hancock, bless him, seemed to think he was there for a purpose and had clearly thought as deeply as he is capable about what went wrong and right but the level of interest was minimal. What they wanted to play was the blame game. It's frankly annoying.

    That's exactly why the inquiry was set-up, and what it will aim to conclude with.

    It's why I'm paying it very little attention.
    Why, it's almost as if they are starting with a conclusion and working backwards to make the evidence fit said conclusion.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,599
    Nigelb said:

    Dog meat traders up in arms over gov't plan to end dog meat consumption
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=364239

    I see the Spectator has addressed this pressing issue

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/whats-wrong-with-eating-dog/
  • Both my grandparents were in the Indian Army, and thus fortunate enough to survive the war.

    Most British troops out there focused on deterrence of the Japanese and internal security duties, and only a very modest number were even in Slim's 14th Army.

    One of my grandfathers was in India too, in the education corps. The other was in the merchant navy. He spent a couple of months in Ceylon as it then was when his ship was sunk by a German submarine, waiting to join his next ship at Trinco. He and my wife bonded over the time they both spent at the Colombo Swimming Club (although in the 1940s they wouldn't have let her in of course).
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    I note we have added Meghan Markle to the long line of people’s names the PB Tories cannot spell
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410

    eek said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT

    isam said:

    Apparently your Christmas song is

    No 1 at Christmas when you were 10 sang by the last artist you listened to in your phone

    Do They Know it’s Christmas by The Smiths was mine

    DAY TRIPPER/WE CAN WORK IT OUT by Luciano pavarotti for me

    apart from the fact this quiz reveals how old everyone is (not important but a lot of quizzes are designed to trick you into revealing details of yourself. I half suspect mine actually exists

    DON'T YOU WANT ME - by the Sundays..
    If it doesn't, it should.

    Whilst they had exactly the right idea of stopping and getting on with the rest of their lives, I miss the songs that didn't happen.

    Oh, and similarly plausibly, Only You by the Divine Comedy.
    I will always love you duetted by Shane MacGowan and the Dubliners
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,039

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    I heard a bit of Hancock yesterday when driving home. It frankly seemed pointless. The KC was very good and Hancock was not particularly persuasive in parts but so what? They seemed desperate to get him on the record stating that the PM had "careered off course" again.

    Hancock, bless him, seemed to think he was there for a purpose and had clearly thought as deeply as he is capable about what went wrong and right but the level of interest was minimal. What they wanted to play was the blame game. It's frankly annoying.

    That's exactly why the inquiry was set-up, and what it will aim to conclude with.

    It's why I'm paying it very little attention.
    Why, it's almost as if they are starting with a conclusion and working backwards to make the evidence fit said conclusion.
    It’s almost as if certain PBers are starting with a conclusion about what the Inquiry will say and are working backwards to make the evidence fit said conclusion.
    Starting !!!!

    Given the inquiry has been rumbling on for a while now you can see the line of questioning and how it is going then it is hardly a case of starting with a conclusion more forming one based on the line of questioning.
  • Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    I heard a bit of Hancock yesterday when driving home. It frankly seemed pointless. The KC was very good and Hancock was not particularly persuasive in parts but so what? They seemed desperate to get him on the record stating that the PM had "careered off course" again.

    Hancock, bless him, seemed to think he was there for a purpose and had clearly thought as deeply as he is capable about what went wrong and right but the level of interest was minimal. What they wanted to play was the blame game. It's frankly annoying.

    The whole thing is so overwhelmingly skewed towards these inter-personal dramas. Its seems very just like it is being run like a trial to find certain individuals guilty, not to actually find out how things can be improved.

    Boris was shit as a leader, we know that. Now what can we actually do better.
    I listened live, and thought that Hancock played a difficult position reasonably well (with some still to come this morning).

    We all know Boris was a shit leader; indeed most of us saw that coming. Anyone who had paid London politics any attention knew the truth, and of course I had already seen it, on occasions from the inside.

    You're right that the line of questioning from that KC doesn't appear chiefly concerned with learning lessons for next time, although the (rare) interventions from the Chair suggests that she does have this very much in mind.
    Part of the trouble is that one of the key lessons is "don't have a government made up of people whose main talent is factional infighting".

    Hopefully, some of the more technical bits of the inquiry will be more useful.
    Aren't all governments made up of people whose main talent is factional infighting (otherwise known as party politics)?

    Though perhaps the infantile level that this was often conducted at by the Johnson government is perhaps not usual.
    Necessary skill sure, but Team 2019 were unusual in how much it was pretty much their only skill.

    Lest we forget, their agenda in early 2020 was bringing disruptive eugenicists into Downing Street and throwing the Saj under the bus.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,599

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    McGowan was a proper musical genius. But lyrically that’s not quite Cole Porter

    “Fairytale” is much cleverer - probably the best Pogues song, lyrically
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,473
    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    The inquiry seems from this vantage point to be led by sage and alternative sage types - people who could only ever believe lockdowns should have been longer and harder. There doesn't seem to be any great exploration of the costs of lockdowns.

    I’m quite sure the enquiry will find that lockdowns should have been more stringent, and should have lasted longer.
    On the question of stringency, there has been some good evidence around how the Government was overly concerned with a punitive approach to enforcing lockdown, against scientific advice.

    I suspect the Inquiry will conclude that the first lockdown should have started sooner (which is what Hancock has said), but that there were understandable reasons why that didn’t happen (which is what Hancock has said). Had the first lockdown started sooner, it probably would have been shorter.

    There have also been several times where witnesses have said that we could have avoided lockdown completely if we had had the same resourcing of pandemic preparedness as in countries like South Korea and Japan, that had learnt the lessons of SARS and MERS.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,710

    Both my grandparents were in the Indian Army, and thus fortunate enough to survive the war.

    Most British troops out there focused on deterrence of the Japanese and internal security duties, and only a very modest number were even in Slim's 14th Army.

    One of my uncles was killed in WWI, and another severely wounded in WWII. All the rest of my relatives who served came home safely, although there were some stories and coincidences!

    More seriously, it does seem that both the Inquiries now taking place are being reported as inquisitorial, whereas, while clearly the Post Office is going to end very badly for some at the top, the Covid one ought to end with recommendations to avoid getting in the same mess again.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,599
    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    The inquiry seems from this vantage point to be led by sage and alternative sage types - people who could only ever believe lockdowns should have been longer and harder. There doesn't seem to be any great exploration of the costs of lockdowns.

    I’m quite sure the enquiry will find that lockdowns should have been more stringent, and should have lasted longer.
    And they won’t even address the origin of the disease - and the part the British medical establishment played in covering up a potential lab origin, for over a year. Whatever your opinion of Covid’s origins, there WAS unquestionably a conspiracy to stop any debate about lab leak

    Absolutely outrageous. Gove mentioned it once and was instantly silenced
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited December 2023
    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    Superb. I especially like the penultimate verse.
    The last line of the song gets me every time. It is so beautifully opaque but also somehow freighted with meaning. It's probably my favourite line in any pop song.
    Talking of fabulous lyrics Roger Waters "Hanging on in Quiet desperation is the English way" is just magnificent.
    That song is inspired by Waters realising, at the age of about 29, that life didn’t begin once you had got all your ducks in a row, when x, y & z had happened, but it had started a long time ago and there wasn’t any time to waste.

    Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
    Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
    Kicking around on a piece of ground in your hometown
    Waiting for someone or something to show you the way
    Tired of lying in the sunshine, staying home to watch the rain
    You are young and life is long, and there is time to kill today
    And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
    No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun
    And you run, and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
    Racing around to come up behind you again
    The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older
    Shorter of breath and one day closer to death
    Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time
    Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
    Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
    The time is gone, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,599
    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    Superb. I especially like the penultimate verse.
    The last line of the song gets me every time. It is so beautifully opaque but also somehow freighted with meaning. It's probably my favourite line in any pop song.
    Talking of fabulous lyrics Roger Waters "Hanging on in Quiet desperation is the English way" is just magnificent.
    Dark Side of the Moon is often superb, lyrically - which is quite odd as Pink Floyd generally didn’t write superb lyrics. Frequently nice or decent but never outstanding

    That whole album is touched with an inexplicable, alchemical and cruelly fleeting genius. But at least we got that album
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,599
    isam said:

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    Superb. I especially like the penultimate verse.
    The last line of the song gets me every time. It is so beautifully opaque but also somehow freighted with meaning. It's probably my favourite line in any pop song.
    Talking of fabulous lyrics Roger Waters "Hanging on in Quiet desperation is the English way" is just magnificent.
    That song is inspired by Waters realising, at the age of about 29, that life didn’t begin once you had got all your ducks in a row, when x, y & z had happened, but it had started a long time ago and there wasn’t any time to waste.

    Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
    Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
    Kicking around on a piece of ground in your hometown
    Waiting for someone or something to show you the way
    Tired of lying in the sunshine, staying home to watch the rain
    You are young and life is long, and there is time to kill today
    And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
    No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun
    And you run, and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
    Racing around to come up behind you again
    The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older
    Shorter of breath and one day closer to death
    Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time
    Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
    Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
    The time is gone, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say
    Yes. Absolutely brilliant. Almost like Larkin
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,865
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    Superb. I especially like the penultimate verse.
    The last line of the song gets me every time. It is so beautifully opaque but also somehow freighted with meaning. It's probably my favourite line in any pop song.
    Talking of fabulous lyrics Roger Waters "Hanging on in Quiet desperation is the English way" is just magnificent.
    That song is inspired by Waters realising, at the age of about 29, that life didn’t begin once you had got all your ducks in a row, when x, y & z had happened, but it had started a long time ago and there wasn’t any time to waste.

    Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
    Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
    Kicking around on a piece of ground in your hometown
    Waiting for someone or something to show you the way
    Tired of lying in the sunshine, staying home to watch the rain
    You are young and life is long, and there is time to kill today
    And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
    No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun
    And you run, and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
    Racing around to come up behind you again
    The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older
    Shorter of breath and one day closer to death
    Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time
    Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
    Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
    The time is gone, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say
    Yes. Absolutely brilliant. Almost like Larkin
    Life is first boredom, then fear.
    Whether or not we use it, it goes,
    And leaves what something hidden from us chose,
    And age, and then the only end of age.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    edited December 2023
    I had been watching the Inquiry with interest but it has gradually waned. No lasting good will be achieved.

    It seems that Patrick Vallance left a recommendation that the civil service should aim for 50% of senior people to be Stem graduates instead of the current 10%. Both the interrogaters and judge should be the same, instead of piling in to demand that the scientists should give their best guesses.

    Science doesn't need people giving their best guesses. Reasonable worst cases are specific and don't include mitigation. Graphs may be too difficult for Bojo but science relies on objectivity. Politics is the opposite, and so it seems is the law.

    As for explaing science to politicians. it's akin to explaining relativity to a slug, A waste of time for both. Do the politicians ever suspect their ignorance is down to their unwillingness to understand.

    I thought Hancock was the consummate polician. When asked a difficult question, answer a different one and control the narrative by spending time espousing something like how good motherhood and apple pie are. He came over as using retrospective knowledge to claim he was always correct - yet at times, he contradicted himself. He seemed exactly as he's been described - a man who makes things up as he goes along. But to be fair, he lies well.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    I heard a bit of Hancock yesterday when driving home. It frankly seemed pointless. The KC was very good and Hancock was not particularly persuasive in parts but so what? They seemed desperate to get him on the record stating that the PM had "careered off course" again.

    Hancock, bless him, seemed to think he was there for a purpose and had clearly thought as deeply as he is capable about what went wrong and right but the level of interest was minimal. What they wanted to play was the blame game. It's frankly annoying.

    That's exactly why the inquiry was set-up, and what it will aim to conclude with.

    It's why I'm paying it very little attention.
    Why, it's almost as if they are starting with a conclusion and working backwards to make the evidence fit said conclusion.
    It reminds me of the famous scene w Jack Nicholson & Tom Cruise in A Few Good Men.

    Is there much to be gained in seeing the inner workings of those in charge in times of desperate trouble or should we suffer a few rules being broken if it’s for the greater good?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,599
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    Superb. I especially like the penultimate verse.
    The last line of the song gets me every time. It is so beautifully opaque but also somehow freighted with meaning. It's probably my favourite line in any pop song.
    Talking of fabulous lyrics Roger Waters "Hanging on in Quiet desperation is the English way" is just magnificent.
    That song is inspired by Waters realising, at the age of about 29, that life didn’t begin once you had got all your ducks in a row, when x, y & z had happened, but it had started a long time ago and there wasn’t any time to waste.

    Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
    Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
    Kicking around on a piece of ground in your hometown
    Waiting for someone or something to show you the way
    Tired of lying in the sunshine, staying home to watch the rain
    You are young and life is long, and there is time to kill today
    And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
    No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun
    And you run, and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
    Racing around to come up behind you again
    The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older
    Shorter of breath and one day closer to death
    Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time
    Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
    Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
    The time is gone, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say
    Yes. Absolutely brilliant. Almost like Larkin
    Life is first boredom, then fear.
    Whether or not we use it, it goes,
    And leaves what something hidden from us chose,
    And age, and then the only end of age.
    Nice. Bleak. Robert Conquest was even pithier

    Seven Ages of Man

    Seven Ages: first puking and mewling
    Then very pissed off with your schooling
    Then fucks and then fights
    Next judging chaps’ rights
    Then sitting in slippers, then drooling.
  • Good morning

    The covid enquiry is a world class attempt at ' gotchas' swallowed by Sky and BBC saturation coverage and giving Burley, Rigby and others such delight as 'gotcha' seems to be their main aim in life

    Frankly, it is not reporting until 2028 and who really cares when there are far more important issues for most people than millions being spent on something that is being judged with the benefit of hindsight anyeay
  • isam said:

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    I heard a bit of Hancock yesterday when driving home. It frankly seemed pointless. The KC was very good and Hancock was not particularly persuasive in parts but so what? They seemed desperate to get him on the record stating that the PM had "careered off course" again.

    Hancock, bless him, seemed to think he was there for a purpose and had clearly thought as deeply as he is capable about what went wrong and right but the level of interest was minimal. What they wanted to play was the blame game. It's frankly annoying.

    That's exactly why the inquiry was set-up, and what it will aim to conclude with.

    It's why I'm paying it very little attention.
    Why, it's almost as if they are starting with a conclusion and working backwards to make the evidence fit said conclusion.
    It reminds me of the famous scene w Jack Nicholson & Tom Cruise in A Few Good Men.

    Is there much to be gained in seeing the inner workings of those in charge in times of desperate trouble or should we suffer a few rules being broken if it’s for the greater good?
    The trouble with that is who defines the greater good?
    Lord Denning on the Birmingham Six springs to mind.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,865

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67584668

    I just don't get this. Everyone knows Brown..or his cohorts briefed against colleagues. I think even less of him now if that's actually possible.

    Darling was the worst Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer since Philip Snowden. He also made a complete mess of Sindyref. RIP.
    There are a number of candidates, but the very best ministers are usually those people don't notice because their job was to avoid newsworthy disasters happening in the first place and they did it well.

    There are few supportive voters backing disasters that didn't happen. Given that banking in UK was and is a heavily regulated activity the 2008 crisis should, under no circumstances, have occurred in the first place as banking as 'personal household and business safekeeping' and banking as risk taking casino are two different industries.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,893
    CD13 said:

    I had been watching the Inquiry with interest but it has gradually waned. No lasting good will be achieved.

    It seems that Patrick Vallance left a recommendation that the civil service should aim for 50% of senior people to be Stem graduates instead of the current 10%. Both the interrogaters and judge should be the same, instead of piling in to demand that the scientists should give their best guesses.

    Science doesn't need people giving their best guesses. Reasonable worst cases are specific and don't include mitigation. Graphs may be too difficult for Bojo but science relies on objectivity. Politics is the opposite, and so it seems is the law.

    As for explaing science to politicians. it's akin to explaining relativity to a slug, A waste of time for both. Do the politicians ever suspect their ignorance is down to their unwillingness to understand.

    I thought Hancock was the consummate polician. When asked a difficult question, answer a different one and control the narrative by spending time espousing something like how good motherhood and apple pie are. He came over as using retrospective knowledge to claim he was always correct - yet at times, he contradicted himself. He seemed exactly as he's been described - a man who makes things up as he goes along. But to be fair, he lies well.

    If they want that the civil service will have to pay a lot more to attract STEM graduates from industry, banking, medicine etc and taxpayers would have to pay for it
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,599
    Finally, the post reshuffle surge for the Tories


    Labour lead up four to 23 points in latest YouGov poll for The Times

    CON 22 (-3)
    LAB 45 (+1)
    LIB DEM 9 (-1)
    REF UK 10 (+1)
    GREEN 7 (=)
  • Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    Superb. I especially like the penultimate verse.
    The last line of the song gets me every time. It is so beautifully opaque but also somehow freighted with meaning. It's probably my favourite line in any pop song.
    Talking of fabulous lyrics Roger Waters "Hanging on in Quiet desperation is the English way" is just magnificent.
    That song is inspired by Waters realising, at the age of about 29, that life didn’t begin once you had got all your ducks in a row, when x, y & z had happened, but it had started a long time ago and there wasn’t any time to waste.

    Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
    Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
    Kicking around on a piece of ground in your hometown
    Waiting for someone or something to show you the way
    Tired of lying in the sunshine, staying home to watch the rain
    You are young and life is long, and there is time to kill today
    And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
    No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun
    And you run, and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
    Racing around to come up behind you again
    The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older
    Shorter of breath and one day closer to death
    Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time
    Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
    Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
    The time is gone, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say
    Yes. Absolutely brilliant. Almost like Larkin
    Life is first boredom, then fear.
    Whether or not we use it, it goes,
    And leaves what something hidden from us chose,
    And age, and then the only end of age.
    Nice. Bleak. Robert Conquest was even pithier

    Seven Ages of Man

    Seven Ages: first puking and mewling
    Then very pissed off with your schooling
    Then fucks and then fights
    Next judging chaps’ rights
    Then sitting in slippers, then drooling.
    Are slippers the defining moment of reaching the crest of the final downward slope? Never had a pair until 5 years ago.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,831
    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    The inquiry seems from this vantage point to be led by sage and alternative sage types - people who could only ever believe lockdowns should have been longer and harder. There doesn't seem to be any great exploration of the costs of lockdowns.

    I’m quite sure the enquiry will find that lockdowns should have been more stringent, and should have lasted longer.
    And they won’t even address the origin of the disease - and the part the British medical establishment played in covering up a potential lab origin, for over a year. Whatever your opinion of Covid’s origins, there WAS unquestionably a conspiracy to stop any debate about lab leak

    Absolutely outrageous. Gove mentioned it once and was instantly silenced
    The whole lot of them should be sacked and sent home. It's a disgrace, and Baroness Hallet is trashing her reputation.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,599

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    Superb. I especially like the penultimate verse.
    The last line of the song gets me every time. It is so beautifully opaque but also somehow freighted with meaning. It's probably my favourite line in any pop song.
    Talking of fabulous lyrics Roger Waters "Hanging on in Quiet desperation is the English way" is just magnificent.
    That song is inspired by Waters realising, at the age of about 29, that life didn’t begin once you had got all your ducks in a row, when x, y & z had happened, but it had started a long time ago and there wasn’t any time to waste.

    Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
    Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
    Kicking around on a piece of ground in your hometown
    Waiting for someone or something to show you the way
    Tired of lying in the sunshine, staying home to watch the rain
    You are young and life is long, and there is time to kill today
    And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
    No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun
    And you run, and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
    Racing around to come up behind you again
    The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older
    Shorter of breath and one day closer to death
    Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time
    Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
    Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
    The time is gone, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say
    Yes. Absolutely brilliant. Almost like Larkin
    Life is first boredom, then fear.
    Whether or not we use it, it goes,
    And leaves what something hidden from us chose,
    And age, and then the only end of age.
    Nice. Bleak. Robert Conquest was even pithier

    Seven Ages of Man

    Seven Ages: first puking and mewling
    Then very pissed off with your schooling
    Then fucks and then fights
    Next judging chaps’ rights
    Then sitting in slippers, then drooling.
    Are slippers the defining moment of reaching the crest of the final downward slope? Never had a pair until 5 years ago.
    I don’t think they’re a particularly GOOD sign
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,599
    The Tories are going to be utterly destroyed if these polls verify

    What are they going to do?? They are on the edge of total oblivion
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Leon said:

    The Tories are going to be utterly destroyed if these polls verify

    What are they going to do?? They are on the edge of total oblivion

    Farage winning I’m a Celebrity could be the final straw for them
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    edited December 2023
    Leon said:

    Finally, the post reshuffle surge for the Tories


    Labour lead up four to 23 points in latest YouGov poll for The Times

    CON 22 (-3)
    LAB 45 (+1)
    LIB DEM 9 (-1)
    REF UK 10 (+1)
    GREEN 7 (=)

    A HUGE resurgence for Sundance & Pardners since the ‘Goodwin Nadir’ of 27pts just a few weeks ago,

    You can call him The Comeback Kid.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,865
    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    Superb. I especially like the penultimate verse.
    The last line of the song gets me every time. It is so beautifully opaque but also somehow freighted with meaning. It's probably my favourite line in any pop song.
    Talking of fabulous lyrics Roger Waters "Hanging on in Quiet desperation is the English way" is just magnificent.
    That song is inspired by Waters realising, at the age of about 29, that life didn’t begin once you had got all your ducks in a row, when x, y & z had happened, but it had started a long time ago and there wasn’t any time to waste.

    Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
    Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
    Kicking around on a piece of ground in your hometown
    Waiting for someone or something to show you the way
    Tired of lying in the sunshine, staying home to watch the rain
    You are young and life is long, and there is time to kill today
    And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
    No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun
    And you run, and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
    Racing around to come up behind you again
    The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older
    Shorter of breath and one day closer to death
    Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time
    Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
    Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
    The time is gone, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say
    Yes. Absolutely brilliant. Almost like Larkin
    Life is first boredom, then fear.
    Whether or not we use it, it goes,
    And leaves what something hidden from us chose,
    And age, and then the only end of age.
    Nice. Bleak. Robert Conquest was even pithier

    Seven Ages of Man

    Seven Ages: first puking and mewling
    Then very pissed off with your schooling
    Then fucks and then fights
    Next judging chaps’ rights
    Then sitting in slippers, then drooling.
    Thanks. Larkin is immortal for poetry. Conquest is immortal for his rules of politics, two of which are;

    Generally speaking, everybody is reactionary on subjects he knows about.

    Every organisation appears to be headed by secret agents of its opponents.
  • Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    Superb. I especially like the penultimate verse.
    The last line of the song gets me every time. It is so beautifully opaque but also somehow freighted with meaning. It's probably my favourite line in any pop song.
    Talking of fabulous lyrics Roger Waters "Hanging on in Quiet desperation is the English way" is just magnificent.
    That song is inspired by Waters realising, at the age of about 29, that life didn’t begin once you had got all your ducks in a row, when x, y & z had happened, but it had started a long time ago and there wasn’t any time to waste.

    Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
    Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
    Kicking around on a piece of ground in your hometown
    Waiting for someone or something to show you the way
    Tired of lying in the sunshine, staying home to watch the rain
    You are young and life is long, and there is time to kill today
    And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
    No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun
    And you run, and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
    Racing around to come up behind you again
    The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older
    Shorter of breath and one day closer to death
    Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time
    Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
    Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
    The time is gone, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say
    Yes. Absolutely brilliant. Almost like Larkin
    Life is first boredom, then fear.
    Whether or not we use it, it goes,
    And leaves what something hidden from us chose,
    And age, and then the only end of age.
    Nice. Bleak. Robert Conquest was even pithier

    Seven Ages of Man

    Seven Ages: first puking and mewling
    Then very pissed off with your schooling
    Then fucks and then fights
    Next judging chaps’ rights
    Then sitting in slippers, then drooling.
    Are slippers the defining moment of reaching the crest of the final downward slope? Never had a pair until 5 years ago.
    Actually I have been advised by my medical team to wear slippers in the house to protect my feet so yes maybe I am on the downward slopes especially with my other issues
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,039
    isam said:

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    Superb. I especially like the penultimate verse.
    The last line of the song gets me every time. It is so beautifully opaque but also somehow freighted with meaning. It's probably my favourite line in any pop song.
    Talking of fabulous lyrics Roger Waters "Hanging on in Quiet desperation is the English way" is just magnificent.
    That song is inspired by Waters realising, at the age of about 29, that life didn’t begin once you had got all your ducks in a row, when x, y & z had happened, but it had started a long time ago and there wasn’t any time to waste.

    Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
    Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
    Kicking around on a piece of ground in your hometown
    Waiting for someone or something to show you the way
    Tired of lying in the sunshine, staying home to watch the rain
    You are young and life is long, and there is time to kill today
    And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
    No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun
    And you run, and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
    Racing around to come up behind you again
    The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older
    Shorter of breath and one day closer to death
    Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time
    Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
    Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
    The time is gone, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say
    That last line I used to quote, whenever I left a job - I did a lot of short term contracts in the past - I would put an email auto response on to let people know I had gone and the title of it would be the last line of Time.

    One day closer to death, something we all are every day another great line.
  • Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    Superb. I especially like the penultimate verse.
    The last line of the song gets me every time. It is so beautifully opaque but also somehow freighted with meaning. It's probably my favourite line in any pop song.
    Talking of fabulous lyrics Roger Waters "Hanging on in Quiet desperation is the English way" is just magnificent.
    That song is inspired by Waters realising, at the age of about 29, that life didn’t begin once you had got all your ducks in a row, when x, y & z had happened, but it had started a long time ago and there wasn’t any time to waste.

    Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
    Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
    Kicking around on a piece of ground in your hometown
    Waiting for someone or something to show you the way
    Tired of lying in the sunshine, staying home to watch the rain
    You are young and life is long, and there is time to kill today
    And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
    No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun
    And you run, and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
    Racing around to come up behind you again
    The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older
    Shorter of breath and one day closer to death
    Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time
    Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
    Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
    The time is gone, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say
    Yes. Absolutely brilliant. Almost like Larkin
    Life is first boredom, then fear.
    Whether or not we use it, it goes,
    And leaves what something hidden from us chose,
    And age, and then the only end of age.
    Nice. Bleak. Robert Conquest was even pithier

    Seven Ages of Man

    Seven Ages: first puking and mewling
    Then very pissed off with your schooling
    Then fucks and then fights
    Next judging chaps’ rights
    Then sitting in slippers, then drooling.
    It's a line longer than Larkin's so not really pithier. And,of course, merely a rewrite.

  • Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    Superb. I especially like the penultimate verse.
    The last line of the song gets me every time. It is so beautifully opaque but also somehow freighted with meaning. It's probably my favourite line in any pop song.
    Talking of fabulous lyrics Roger Waters "Hanging on in Quiet desperation is the English way" is just magnificent.
    That song is inspired by Waters realising, at the age of about 29, that life didn’t begin once you had got all your ducks in a row, when x, y & z had happened, but it had started a long time ago and there wasn’t any time to waste.

    Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
    Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
    Kicking around on a piece of ground in your hometown
    Waiting for someone or something to show you the way
    Tired of lying in the sunshine, staying home to watch the rain
    You are young and life is long, and there is time to kill today
    And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
    No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun
    And you run, and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
    Racing around to come up behind you again
    The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older
    Shorter of breath and one day closer to death
    Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time
    Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
    Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
    The time is gone, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say
    Yes. Absolutely brilliant. Almost like Larkin
    Life is first boredom, then fear.
    Whether or not we use it, it goes,
    And leaves what something hidden from us chose,
    And age, and then the only end of age.
    Nice. Bleak. Robert Conquest was even pithier

    Seven Ages of Man

    Seven Ages: first puking and mewling
    Then very pissed off with your schooling
    Then fucks and then fights
    Next judging chaps’ rights
    Then sitting in slippers, then drooling.
    Are slippers the defining moment of reaching the crest of the final downward slope? Never had a pair until 5 years ago.
    Nothing beats a comfy pair of baffies.
  • Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    Superb. I especially like the penultimate verse.
    The last line of the song gets me every time. It is so beautifully opaque but also somehow freighted with meaning. It's probably my favourite line in any pop song.
    Talking of fabulous lyrics Roger Waters "Hanging on in Quiet desperation is the English way" is just magnificent.
    That song is inspired by Waters realising, at the age of about 29, that life didn’t begin once you had got all your ducks in a row, when x, y & z had happened, but it had started a long time ago and there wasn’t any time to waste.

    Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
    Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
    Kicking around on a piece of ground in your hometown
    Waiting for someone or something to show you the way
    Tired of lying in the sunshine, staying home to watch the rain
    You are young and life is long, and there is time to kill today
    And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
    No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun
    And you run, and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
    Racing around to come up behind you again
    The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older
    Shorter of breath and one day closer to death
    Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time
    Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
    Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
    The time is gone, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say
    Yes. Absolutely brilliant. Almost like Larkin
    Life is first boredom, then fear.
    Whether or not we use it, it goes,
    And leaves what something hidden from us chose,
    And age, and then the only end of age.
    Nice. Bleak. Robert Conquest was even pithier

    Seven Ages of Man

    Seven Ages: first puking and mewling
    Then very pissed off with your schooling
    Then fucks and then fights
    Next judging chaps’ rights
    Then sitting in slippers, then drooling.
    Are slippers the defining moment of reaching the crest of the final downward slope? Never had a pair until 5 years ago.
    Actually I have been advised by my medical team to wear slippers in the house to protect my feet so yes maybe I am on the downward slopes especially with my other issues
    Sorry, didn’t intend to introduce a doomy note! I’m expecting a few good years yet and hope the same for you. Let’s define wearing slippers to the local shops as the point of no return.
  • Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    The inquiry seems from this vantage point to be led by sage and alternative sage types - people who could only ever believe lockdowns should have been longer and harder. There doesn't seem to be any great exploration of the costs of lockdowns.

    I’m quite sure the enquiry will find that lockdowns should have been more stringent, and should have lasted longer.
    And they won’t even address the origin of the disease - and the part the British medical establishment played in covering up a potential lab origin, for over a year. Whatever your opinion of Covid’s origins, there WAS unquestionably a conspiracy to stop any debate about lab leak

    Absolutely outrageous. Gove mentioned it once and was instantly silenced
    Government policy.

    Government set the remit;

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-covid-19-inquiry-terms-of-reference/uk-covid-19-inquiry-terms-of-reference

    Nothing there I can see discussing where it came from. And a smart chap like Gove would have known that.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,865
    Leon said:

    The Tories are going to be utterly destroyed if these polls verify

    What are they going to do?? They are on the edge of total oblivion

    Signs of the times: with the exception of thoughtful and considered articles on dog eating the Speccie is more or less unreadable; the New Statesman presents the centrist reader with a reasonably balanced consideration of how to run the country in a centrist way without actually blowing it up.

    Game over?
  • Morning all!

    So is the main complaint from the remaining PB Tories that the Covid enquiry is bad because it is exposing just how bad a job a bunch of very bad ministers did?

    Sorrynotsorry. They were the government. We expect them to at least try to be competent. And they weren’t. If exposing that in fine detail is a problem politically, thems the breaks.

    Note to galley - Jagerbombs should not be drunk under any circumstances. Neat Jager should *definitely* not be drunk under any circumstances. Especially if you are already drunk…
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,945
    HYUFD said:

    CD13 said:

    I had been watching the Inquiry with interest but it has gradually waned. No lasting good will be achieved.

    It seems that Patrick Vallance left a recommendation that the civil service should aim for 50% of senior people to be Stem graduates instead of the current 10%. Both the interrogaters and judge should be the same, instead of piling in to demand that the scientists should give their best guesses.

    Science doesn't need people giving their best guesses. Reasonable worst cases are specific and don't include mitigation. Graphs may be too difficult for Bojo but science relies on objectivity. Politics is the opposite, and so it seems is the law.

    As for explaing science to politicians. it's akin to explaining relativity to a slug, A waste of time for both. Do the politicians ever suspect their ignorance is down to their unwillingness to understand.

    I thought Hancock was the consummate polician. When asked a difficult question, answer a different one and control the narrative by spending time espousing something like how good motherhood and apple pie are. He came over as using retrospective knowledge to claim he was always correct - yet at times, he contradicted himself. He seemed exactly as he's been described - a man who makes things up as he goes along. But to be fair, he lies well.

    If they want that the civil service will have to pay a lot more to attract STEM graduates from industry, banking, medicine etc and taxpayers would have to pay for it
    True, but it might save money in the long run if civil servants understand stuff better so not wasting time and making better decisions.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,599
    edited December 2023
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories are going to be utterly destroyed if these polls verify

    What are they going to do?? They are on the edge of total oblivion

    Signs of the times: with the exception of thoughtful and considered articles on dog eating the Speccie is more or less unreadable; the New Statesman presents the centrist reader with a reasonably balanced consideration of how to run the country in a centrist way without actually blowing it up.

    Game over?
    The Spectator is fun, tho. The New Statesman is intolerably worthy and boring. Hence their very differing sales and profit

    But then; twas ever thus, at least for the last few decades
  • Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    McGowan was a proper musical genius. But lyrically that’s not quite Cole Porter

    “Fairytale” is much cleverer - probably the best Pogues song, lyrically
    Fairytale of New York may be cleverer with the duet structure etc but there's something buried in Rainy Night in Soho that gets me every time I listen to it. The lyrics have that kind of unknowable quality that I think is the mark of real poetry.
  • MuesliMuesli Posts: 202
    malcolmg said:

    FPT

    isam said:

    Apparently your Christmas song is

    No 1 at Christmas when you were 10 sang by the last artist you listened to in your phone

    Do They Know it’s Christmas by The Smiths was mine

    DAY TRIPPER/WE CAN WORK IT OUT by Luciano pavarotti for me

    I’m a bit late to the party with this but my festive song is apparently Mr Blobby by Lady Gaga.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,599

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    McGowan was a proper musical genius. But lyrically that’s not quite Cole Porter

    “Fairytale” is much cleverer - probably the best Pogues song, lyrically
    Fairytale of New York may be cleverer with the duet structure etc but there's something buried in Rainy Night in Soho that gets me every time I listen to it. The lyrics have that kind of unknowable quality that I think is the mark of real poetry.
    “You scumbag, you maggot, you cheap lousy faggot
    Happy Christmas your arse I pray god it’s our last”

    Is one of the greatest couplets in the history of pop music. It expresses true love and deep sentiment - as drunk loving ruined people really speak, with a clever rhyme scheme

    I believe it has now been cancelled by the Woke
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,812
    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    Superb. I especially like the penultimate verse.
    The last line of the song gets me every time. It is so beautifully opaque but also somehow freighted with meaning. It's probably my favourite line in any pop song.
    Talking of fabulous lyrics Roger Waters "Hanging on in Quiet desperation is the English way" is just magnificent.
    That song is inspired by Waters realising, at the age of about 29, that life didn’t begin once you had got all your ducks in a row, when x, y & z had happened, but it had started a long time ago and there wasn’t any time to waste.

    Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
    Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
    Kicking around on a piece of ground in your hometown
    Waiting for someone or something to show you the way
    Tired of lying in the sunshine, staying home to watch the rain
    You are young and life is long, and there is time to kill today
    And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
    No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun
    And you run, and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
    Racing around to come up behind you again
    The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older
    Shorter of breath and one day closer to death
    Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time
    Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
    Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
    The time is gone, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say
    Yes. Absolutely brilliant. Almost like Larkin
    Life is first boredom, then fear.
    Whether or not we use it, it goes,
    And leaves what something hidden from us chose,
    And age, and then the only end of age.
    Nice. Bleak. Robert Conquest was even pithier

    Seven Ages of Man

    Seven Ages: first puking and mewling
    Then very pissed off with your schooling
    Then fucks and then fights
    Next judging chaps’ rights
    Then sitting in slippers, then drooling.
    Conquest and Larkin were both very close friends of Kingsley Amis. Definitely a shared and rather mordant take on life. Amis's later novels are preoccupied with the challenges of ageing. But they can be very funny and sympathetic although he wasn't always a very sympathetic character himself by all accounts. Try "The Old Devils".
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,599

    Morning all!

    So is the main complaint from the remaining PB Tories that the Covid enquiry is bad because it is exposing just how bad a job a bunch of very bad ministers did?

    Sorrynotsorry. They were the government. We expect them to at least try to be competent. And they weren’t. If exposing that in fine detail is a problem politically, thems the breaks.

    Note to galley - Jagerbombs should not be drunk under any circumstances. Neat Jager should *definitely* not be drunk under any circumstances. Especially if you are already drunk…

    You misconstrue. The complaint is that the inquiry should be wider and MORE brutal - investigating everyone - from the guilty politicians to the lying scientists to the pathetic isage pundits

    No one is worried about the Tories getting scorched, we just think the whole thing should dive much much deeper and harder
  • algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    The Tories are going to be utterly destroyed if these polls verify

    What are they going to do?? They are on the edge of total oblivion

    Signs of the times: with the exception of thoughtful and considered articles on dog eating the Speccie is more or less unreadable; the New Statesman presents the centrist reader with a reasonably balanced consideration of how to run the country in a centrist way without actually blowing it up.

    Game over?
    For now, anyway.

    Two ways of being a winning political movement.

    One is to sing the old songs better. Run a government doing normal things, but with a better mix of competence, verve and humanity.

    The other is to come up with a brilliant new song. Do something brand new, like Thatcher or Attlee did.

    The Conservatives can't run on the first. Not after all this. And Starmer will be a more than adequate cover singer.

    And they will have problems running on the second, because there aren't any good new ideas on the right either. Hence the Thatcher cosplay. The nearest they have to a new idea- national populism- may be new(ish) but it's also terrible.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,599

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Can I just thank whoever it was that linked to the Pogues "And the band played waltzing Matilda" on the previous thread. A brilliant and deeply moving rendition.

    McGowan was the real deal, not least a fantastic lyricist. Look at the lyrics to A Rainy Night in Soho, below - just beautiful poetry.

    I've been loving you a long time
    Down all the years, down all the days
    And I've cried for all your troubles
    Smiled at your funny little ways

    We watched our friends grow up together
    And we saw them as they fell
    Some of them fell into Heaven
    Some of them fell into Hell

    I took shelter from a shower
    And I stepped into your arms
    On a rainy night in Soho
    The wind was whistling all its charms

    I sang you all my sorrows
    You told me all your joys
    Whatever happened to that old song?
    To all those little girls and boys

    Sometimes I'd wake up in the morning
    The ginger lady by my bed
    Covered in a cloak of silence
    I'd hear you talking in my head

    I'm not singing for the future
    I'm not dreaming of the past
    I'm not talking of the first times
    I never think about the last

    Now the song is nearly over
    We may never find out what it means
    Still there's a light I hold before me
    You're the measure of my dreams
    The measure of my dreams
    Superb. I especially like the penultimate verse.
    The last line of the song gets me every time. It is so beautifully opaque but also somehow freighted with meaning. It's probably my favourite line in any pop song.
    Talking of fabulous lyrics Roger Waters "Hanging on in Quiet desperation is the English way" is just magnificent.
    That song is inspired by Waters realising, at the age of about 29, that life didn’t begin once you had got all your ducks in a row, when x, y & z had happened, but it had started a long time ago and there wasn’t any time to waste.

    Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
    Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
    Kicking around on a piece of ground in your hometown
    Waiting for someone or something to show you the way
    Tired of lying in the sunshine, staying home to watch the rain
    You are young and life is long, and there is time to kill today
    And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
    No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun
    And you run, and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
    Racing around to come up behind you again
    The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older
    Shorter of breath and one day closer to death
    Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time
    Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
    Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
    The time is gone, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say
    Yes. Absolutely brilliant. Almost like Larkin
    Life is first boredom, then fear.
    Whether or not we use it, it goes,
    And leaves what something hidden from us chose,
    And age, and then the only end of age.
    Nice. Bleak. Robert Conquest was even pithier

    Seven Ages of Man

    Seven Ages: first puking and mewling
    Then very pissed off with your schooling
    Then fucks and then fights
    Next judging chaps’ rights
    Then sitting in slippers, then drooling.
    Conquest and Larkin were both very close friends of Kingsley Amis. Definitely a shared and rather mordant take on life. Amis's later novels are preoccupied with the challenges of ageing. But they can be very funny and sympathetic although he wasn't always a very sympathetic character himself by all accounts. Try "The Old Devils".
    I did. Hated it. Don’t rate Kingsley. Much prefer Marty
This discussion has been closed.