Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

A 14% return in just over a month? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,014
edited November 2023 in General
imageA 14% return in just over a month? – politicalbetting.com

Ladbrokes have this market on whether a vote of no confidence will be triggered in Rishi Sunak this year. For one to be triggered 15% of Tory MPs need to send a letter to the chairman of the 1922 committee requesting such a vote.

Read the full story here

«13

Comments

  • Options
    Christmas Day is only 5 weeks on Monday

    I remain of the opinion Sunak will lead into GE24 whenever it is
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,698
    How many letters have gone in already?
  • Options

    Christmas Day is only 5 weeks on Monday

    I remain of the opinion Sunak will lead into GE24 whenever it is

    I think this is virtually nailed on. No realistic challenger.

    Rishi will lead the party into the GE which will be in May after a budget in March where Hunt produces a large increase in the personal allowance.
  • Options

    Christmas Day is only 5 weeks on Monday

    I remain of the opinion Sunak will lead into GE24 whenever it is

    I think this is virtually nailed on. No realistic challenger.

    Rishi will lead the party into the GE which will be in May after a budget in March where Hunt produces a large increase in the personal allowance.
    Quite possible
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,449
    edited November 2023
    The 4th Amendment.

    Which is actually the 5th Amendment because some person manipulated the schedule by adding in another one when I was looking elsewhere.

    I'll take Due Process over Search and Seizure any day,

    Except for SUVs, which should be searched, then seized regardless.
  • Options

    Christmas Day is only 5 weeks on Monday

    I remain of the opinion Sunak will lead into GE24 whenever it is

    Five weeks last Monday. One month exactly from today. Four weeks from Monday. (Other dates for Christmas are available in Eastern Europe.)
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,449

    Christmas Day is only 5 weeks on Monday

    I remain of the opinion Sunak will lead into GE24 whenever it is

    Five weeks last Monday. One month exactly from today. Four weeks from Monday. (Other dates for Christmas are available in Eastern Europe.)
    I've bought a friend a posh hamper, and told her to treat it like an Advent Calendar from December 1st. One treat per day.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    Christmas Day is only 5 weeks on Monday

    I remain of the opinion Sunak will lead into GE24 whenever it is

    The house is now fully decorated. Splendid it looks too.

    I will be putting no effort into unseating Rishi this year.
  • Options

    Christmas Day is only 5 weeks on Monday

    I remain of the opinion Sunak will lead into GE24 whenever it is

    Five weeks last Monday. One month exactly from today. Four weeks from Monday. (Other dates for Christmas are available in Eastern Europe.)
    Yes - thank you for correcting me

    Nothing is happening to Sunak this year
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,980
    Sunak will survive, he got well over 50% of Tory MPs to nominate him for leader last autumn and the ERG doesn't have the numbers to topple him in a VONC.

    It is also arguably in the interests of Braverman and the ERG for Sunak and Hunt to lead the party to likely general election defeat anyway, they can then blame them and the centrist wing of the party for the defeat so the right of the party can try and take it over again in opposition
  • Options
    New Year soon.

    Remember 'Nothing changes on New Year's Day'.

    LAB will still be 20% + clear.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,596
    The last time Labour won at a General Election, some of next year's voters weren't even born.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Sunak will survive, he got well over 50% of Tory MPs to nominate him for leader last autumn and the ERG doesn't have the numbers to topple him in a VONC.

    It is also arguably in the interests of Braverman and the ERG for Sunak and Hunt to lead the party to likely general election defeat anyway, they can then blame them and the centrist wing of the party for the defeat so the right of the party can try and take it over again in opposition

    And stay there forever
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,717
    Well, having seen Ridley Scott's Napoleon I can kind of see why the French apparently dislike it, since it makes him seem like a bit of an idiot and has a title screen showing the numbers of people who died in the battles he fought and the length of his reign.

    Well played, Sir Ridley.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,190

    Christmas Day is only 5 weeks on Monday

    I remain of the opinion Sunak will lead into GE24 whenever it is

    Five weeks last Monday. One month exactly from today. Four weeks from Monday. (Other dates for Christmas are available in Eastern Europe.)
    Gawd. Not got a single present yet. But on the plus side I discovered that I have a £20 credit on my Waterstones card so all is not lost.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,717
    edited November 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    Even if Leon is correct, that doesn't mean we should in any way reduce our support to Ukraine or push for any kind of negotiated end to the conflict.

    This is Ukraine's fight. They have been invaded. And it is our moral duty to support them as long as they wish to continue.

    Anything else is bullshit.

    Without seeing it I'm going to predict it's just a reheated version of the talk at the beginning of the 2022 invasion, that it's all hopeless and therefore fighting is pointless, dressed up as pragmatism and presented as if it is a fresh new argument this time?

    A companion piece to the alternative 'fighting is awful, therefore peace immediately no matter the cost must be the moral position' you get on the Corbynite side, as if noone has ever heard of some causes being worth fighting for before.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,124
    viewcode said:

    How many letters have gone in already?

    Haven't some of the usual suspects already claimed to have sent in their sub-kindergarten quality crayon drawings?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,190

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak will survive, he got well over 50% of Tory MPs to nominate him for leader last autumn and the ERG doesn't have the numbers to topple him in a VONC.

    It is also arguably in the interests of Braverman and the ERG for Sunak and Hunt to lead the party to likely general election defeat anyway, they can then blame them and the centrist wing of the party for the defeat so the right of the party can try and take it over again in opposition

    And stay there forever
    No, only until they get fed up of being in opposition.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,717
    edited November 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Sunak will survive, he got well over 50% of Tory MPs to nominate him for leader last autumn and the ERG doesn't have the numbers to topple him in a VONC.

    It is also arguably in the interests of Braverman and the ERG for Sunak and Hunt to lead the party to likely general election defeat anyway, they can then blame them and the centrist wing of the party for the defeat so the right of the party can try and take it over again in opposition

    It's amazing how lessons of their opponents about focusing on the concerns of activists and ideologues do not get learned.

    (That said I do have some sympathy for them that, though I think it a losing argument, a full throated Bravermanesque approach might actually lose less hard right now at least)
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,449
    HYUFD said:

    Sunak will survive, he got well over 50% of Tory MPs to nominate him for leader last autumn and the ERG doesn't have the numbers to topple him in a VONC.

    It is also arguably in the interests of Braverman and the ERG for Sunak and Hunt to lead the party to likely general election defeat anyway, they can then blame them and the centrist wing of the party for the defeat so the right of the party can try and take it over again in opposition

    But he's no Tina Turner.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,449

    Christmas Day is only 5 weeks on Monday

    I remain of the opinion Sunak will lead into GE24 whenever it is

    The house is now fully decorated. Splendid it looks too.

    I will be putting no effort into unseating Rishi this year.
    Due to my ongoing health issues, with various hospital appointments going forward, my wife and I will have written all our Christmas cards, bought all the presents for the family and wrapped them and put them under the Christmas tree by next Wednesday, so we can enjoy December and Christmas stress free starting with the RNLI carol concert at the boathouse next Sunday
    Wishing you a pleasant and quiet Christmas.

    I have presents I have bought for myself ! Including some eccentric military combat rations for when I am back doing some decent distance cycling. The French ones are surprisingly good.
  • Options
    When the 2017 election campaign began, the Tories were leading in the polls by ~18%. They ended up winning by 2%.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,698
    edited November 2023
    ...
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,449
    viewcode said:

    How many letters have gone in already?

    Is there any evidence that Lee Anderson can write?

    I know he can email, and what his straight bat emails are like.
  • Options
    twistedfirestopper3twistedfirestopper3 Posts: 2,076
    edited November 2023
    .

    Christmas Day is only 5 weeks on Monday

    I remain of the opinion Sunak will lead into GE24 whenever it is

    The house is now fully decorated. Splendid it looks too.

    I will be putting no effort into unseating Rishi this year.
    There's a posh house on the other side of the river opposite me. Done up like fecking Santa's Grotto. It's at the bottom of their large garden and that whole row of posh houses all try and out Jones each other every year, be it Christmas, Halloween, even damn Easter bunny shite as well...... in their gardens on their landing stages and boat decks, so that dog walkers and lads on illegal Surons can see how rich they are, and it's not even December yet, goddammit it!
    I truly despise the whole wanky Christmas period, it just sweats poor people to buy stuff they don't need that they can't afford.
    Thank feck I'm Bah Humbug!
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,980
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak will survive, he got well over 50% of Tory MPs to nominate him for leader last autumn and the ERG doesn't have the numbers to topple him in a VONC.

    It is also arguably in the interests of Braverman and the ERG for Sunak and Hunt to lead the party to likely general election defeat anyway, they can then blame them and the centrist wing of the party for the defeat so the right of the party can try and take it over again in opposition

    It's amazing how lessons of their opponents about focusing on the concerns of activists and ideologues do not get learned.

    (That said I do have some sympathy for them that, though I think it a losing argument, a full throated Bravermanesque approach might actually lose less hard right now at least)
    Given recent wins of Wilders and Meloni and Trump back tied in US polls anything could happen if Labour get in and the economy is in poor shape
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,980
    edited November 2023
    kle4 said:

    Well, having seen Ridley Scott's Napoleon I can kind of see why the French apparently dislike it, since it makes him seem like a bit of an idiot and has a title screen showing the numbers of people who died in the battles he fought and the length of his reign.

    Well played, Sir Ridley.

    We saw it last night. I don't think it made him seem an idiot, it showed how his military successes at Toulon and the weak revolutionary government got him to power and his Austerlitz victory made him the most powerful figure in Europe and he was able to return to France and raise an army even when sent to exile in Elba.

    It did though yes largely ignore his domestic successes and emphasised the costs of his campaigns
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181

    Christmas Day is only 5 weeks on Monday

    I remain of the opinion Sunak will lead into GE24 whenever it is

    Even more importantly in 52 minutes it will be exactly 3120 weeks since An Unearthly Child aired.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,124
    edited November 2023
    Chemist said:

    When the 2017 election campaign began, the Tories were leading in the polls by ~18%. They ended up winning by 2%.

    So the extrapolation is thus; losing by minus 18 now, add in the 2017 drop of 16 and we have minus 34.

    Nah!
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,358

    Christmas Day is only 5 weeks on Monday

    I remain of the opinion Sunak will lead into GE24 whenever it is

    The house is now fully decorated. Splendid it looks too.

    I will be putting no effort into unseating Rishi this year.
    Due to my ongoing health issues, with various hospital appointments going forward, my wife and I will have written all our Christmas cards, bought all the presents for the family and wrapped them and put them under the Christmas tree by next Wednesday, so we can enjoy December and Christmas stress free starting with the RNLI carol concert at the boathouse next Sunday
    Scarily well organised!
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,765
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, having seen Ridley Scott's Napoleon I can kind of see why the French apparently dislike it, since it makes him seem like a bit of an idiot and has a title screen showing the numbers of people who died in the battles he fought and the length of his reign.

    Well played, Sir Ridley.

    We saw it last night. I don't think it made him seem an idiot, it showed how his military successes at Toulon and the weak revolutionary government got him to power and his Austerlitz victory made him the most powerful figure in Europe and he was able to return to France and raise an army even when sent to exile in Elba.

    It did though yes largely ignore his domestic successes and emphasised the costs of his campaigns
    I haven't seen it, but it ignores him reintroducing slavery doesn't it?
  • Options

    Christmas Day is only 5 weeks on Monday

    I remain of the opinion Sunak will lead into GE24 whenever it is

    The house is now fully decorated. Splendid it looks too.

    I will be putting no effort into unseating Rishi this year.
    Due to my ongoing health issues, with various hospital appointments going forward, my wife and I will have written all our Christmas cards, bought all the presents for the family and wrapped them and put them under the Christmas tree by next Wednesday, so we can enjoy December and Christmas stress free starting with the RNLI carol concert at the boathouse next Sunday
    Scarily well organised!
    Thats what my daughter has just said !!!!
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,980
    edited November 2023
    CatMan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, having seen Ridley Scott's Napoleon I can kind of see why the French apparently dislike it, since it makes him seem like a bit of an idiot and has a title screen showing the numbers of people who died in the battles he fought and the length of his reign.

    Well played, Sir Ridley.

    We saw it last night. I don't think it made him seem an idiot, it showed how his military successes at Toulon and the weak revolutionary government got him to power and his Austerlitz victory made him the most powerful figure in Europe and he was able to return to France and raise an army even when sent to exile in Elba.

    It did though yes largely ignore his domestic successes and emphasised the costs of his campaigns
    I haven't seen it, but it ignores him reintroducing slavery doesn't it?
    It is not particularly woke yes but then it also doesn't mention him giving equality to French Jews either.

    However it has beaten the woke new Marvel film 'The Marvels' at the box office this week and is second on the latest US box office numbers behind the new Hunger Games movie and is doing better than projected in the UK, Europe (including surprisingly in France despite unfavourable reviews there), Australia and Latin America too
    https://www.boxofficemojo.com/
    https://deadline.com/2023/11/napoleon-wish-opening-weekend-global-international-box-office-1235637258/
  • Options
    viewcode said:

    ...

    ... --- ...
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938
    CatMan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, having seen Ridley Scott's Napoleon I can kind of see why the French apparently dislike it, since it makes him seem like a bit of an idiot and has a title screen showing the numbers of people who died in the battles he fought and the length of his reign.

    Well played, Sir Ridley.

    We saw it last night. I don't think it made him seem an idiot, it showed how his military successes at Toulon and the weak revolutionary government got him to power and his Austerlitz victory made him the most powerful figure in Europe and he was able to return to France and raise an army even when sent to exile in Elba.

    It did though yes largely ignore his domestic successes and emphasised the costs of his campaigns
    I haven't seen it, but it ignores him reintroducing slavery doesn't it?
    Yep: too many of his domestic successes were ignored.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,161
    Yes that's a slam dunk.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938
    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, having seen Ridley Scott's Napoleon I can kind of see why the French apparently dislike it, since it makes him seem like a bit of an idiot and has a title screen showing the numbers of people who died in the battles he fought and the length of his reign.

    Well played, Sir Ridley.

    We saw it last night. I don't think it made him seem an idiot, it showed how his military successes at Toulon and the weak revolutionary government got him to power and his Austerlitz victory made him the most powerful figure in Europe and he was able to return to France and raise an army even when sent to exile in Elba.

    It did though yes largely ignore his domestic successes and emphasised the costs of his campaigns
    I haven't seen it, but it ignores him reintroducing slavery doesn't it?
    It is not particularly woke yes but then it also doesn't mention him giving equality to French Jews either
    In 1806, Napoleon issued a decree that severely curtailed the rights of Jews to own property.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, having seen Ridley Scott's Napoleon I can kind of see why the French apparently dislike it, since it makes him seem like a bit of an idiot and has a title screen showing the numbers of people who died in the battles he fought and the length of his reign.

    Well played, Sir Ridley.

    We saw it last night. I don't think it made him seem an idiot, it showed how his military successes at Toulon and the weak revolutionary government got him to power and his Austerlitz victory made him the most powerful figure in Europe and he was able to return to France and raise an army even when sent to exile in Elba.

    It did though yes largely ignore his domestic successes and emphasised the costs of his campaigns
    Judging him by modern standards is foolish. However, his failure to stop pushing when he was ahead was on a scale comparable only with another 'little corporal' in Germany almost one and a half centuries later. Made the same errors regarding Britain and Russia too.
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,765
    edited November 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    CatMan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, having seen Ridley Scott's Napoleon I can kind of see why the French apparently dislike it, since it makes him seem like a bit of an idiot and has a title screen showing the numbers of people who died in the battles he fought and the length of his reign.

    Well played, Sir Ridley.

    We saw it last night. I don't think it made him seem an idiot, it showed how his military successes at Toulon and the weak revolutionary government got him to power and his Austerlitz victory made him the most powerful figure in Europe and he was able to return to France and raise an army even when sent to exile in Elba.

    It did though yes largely ignore his domestic successes and emphasised the costs of his campaigns
    I haven't seen it, but it ignores him reintroducing slavery doesn't it?
    Yep: too many of his domestic successes were ignored.
    Err, don't you mean the opposite?

    (Edit: I mean, in the sense that slavery wasn't a success!)
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, having seen Ridley Scott's Napoleon I can kind of see why the French apparently dislike it, since it makes him seem like a bit of an idiot and has a title screen showing the numbers of people who died in the battles he fought and the length of his reign.

    Well played, Sir Ridley.

    We saw it last night. I don't think it made him seem an idiot, it showed how his military successes at Toulon and the weak revolutionary government got him to power and his Austerlitz victory made him the most powerful figure in Europe and he was able to return to France and raise an army even when sent to exile in Elba.

    It did though yes largely ignore his domestic successes and emphasised the costs of his campaigns
    I haven't seen it, but it ignores him reintroducing slavery doesn't it?
    It is not particularly woke yes but then it also doesn't mention him giving equality to French Jews either
    In 1806, Napoleon issued a decree that severely curtailed the rights of Jews to own property.
    Jeremy Corbyn and his three resident acolytes on here would have approved.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,980
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, having seen Ridley Scott's Napoleon I can kind of see why the French apparently dislike it, since it makes him seem like a bit of an idiot and has a title screen showing the numbers of people who died in the battles he fought and the length of his reign.

    Well played, Sir Ridley.

    We saw it last night. I don't think it made him seem an idiot, it showed how his military successes at Toulon and the weak revolutionary government got him to power and his Austerlitz victory made him the most powerful figure in Europe and he was able to return to France and raise an army even when sent to exile in Elba.

    It did though yes largely ignore his domestic successes and emphasised the costs of his campaigns
    I haven't seen it, but it ignores him reintroducing slavery doesn't it?
    It is not particularly woke yes but then it also doesn't mention him giving equality to French Jews either
    In 1806, Napoleon issued a decree that severely curtailed the rights of Jews to own property.
    He passed laws freeing Jews from the ghettos and enabled them to freely worship and own property (even if he restricted their money lending rights)
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,980
    edited November 2023

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, having seen Ridley Scott's Napoleon I can kind of see why the French apparently dislike it, since it makes him seem like a bit of an idiot and has a title screen showing the numbers of people who died in the battles he fought and the length of his reign.

    Well played, Sir Ridley.

    We saw it last night. I don't think it made him seem an idiot, it showed how his military successes at Toulon and the weak revolutionary government got him to power and his Austerlitz victory made him the most powerful figure in Europe and he was able to return to France and raise an army even when sent to exile in Elba.

    It did though yes largely ignore his domestic successes and emphasised the costs of his campaigns
    Judging him by modern standards is foolish. However, his failure to stop pushing when he was ahead was on a scale comparable only with another 'little corporal' in Germany almost one and a half centuries later. Made the same errors regarding Britain and Russia too.
    He actually arguably conquered and ruled more than Hitler too, Spain and much of present day Italy and Germany were directly part of his Empire or client states and he captured Moscow which the Nazis failed to do, even if the Russians had burned it down. He also made similar advances in North Africa and the Middle East.

    Given Putin's new war of expansion, modern standards are not completely different everywhere to his time either

  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,561
    edited November 2023

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, having seen Ridley Scott's Napoleon I can kind of see why the French apparently dislike it, since it makes him seem like a bit of an idiot and has a title screen showing the numbers of people who died in the battles he fought and the length of his reign.

    Well played, Sir Ridley.

    We saw it last night. I don't think it made him seem an idiot, it showed how his military successes at Toulon and the weak revolutionary government got him to power and his Austerlitz victory made him the most powerful figure in Europe and he was able to return to France and raise an army even when sent to exile in Elba.

    It did though yes largely ignore his domestic successes and emphasised the costs of his campaigns
    Judging [Napoleon] by modern standards is foolish. [snip].
    Even at the time, pillaging across Europe and soaking it in blood for fifteen years was somewhat frowned upon.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,124
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, having seen Ridley Scott's Napoleon I can kind of see why the French apparently dislike it, since it makes him seem like a bit of an idiot and has a title screen showing the numbers of people who died in the battles he fought and the length of his reign.

    Well played, Sir Ridley.

    We saw it last night. I don't think it made him seem an idiot, it showed how his military successes at Toulon and the weak revolutionary government got him to power and his Austerlitz victory made him the most powerful figure in Europe and he was able to return to France and raise an army even when sent to exile in Elba.

    It did though yes largely ignore his domestic successes and emphasised the costs of his campaigns
    I haven't seen it, but it ignores him reintroducing slavery doesn't it?
    It is not particularly woke yes but then it also doesn't mention him giving equality to French Jews either
    In 1806, Napoleon issued a decree that severely curtailed the rights of Jews to own property.
    Jeremy Corbyn and his three resident acolytes on here would have approved.
    He has three supporters?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,635
    MattW said:

    Christmas Day is only 5 weeks on Monday

    I remain of the opinion Sunak will lead into GE24 whenever it is

    Five weeks last Monday. One month exactly from today. Four weeks from Monday. (Other dates for Christmas are available in Eastern Europe.)
    I've bought a friend a posh hamper, and told her to treat it like an Advent Calendar from December 1st. One treat per day.
    *imagines necking a whole jar of preserved ginger in syrup in one go, or at least one day*
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,980
    Fishing said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, having seen Ridley Scott's Napoleon I can kind of see why the French apparently dislike it, since it makes him seem like a bit of an idiot and has a title screen showing the numbers of people who died in the battles he fought and the length of his reign.

    Well played, Sir Ridley.

    We saw it last night. I don't think it made him seem an idiot, it showed how his military successes at Toulon and the weak revolutionary government got him to power and his Austerlitz victory made him the most powerful figure in Europe and he was able to return to France and raise an army even when sent to exile in Elba.

    It did though yes largely ignore his domestic successes and emphasised the costs of his campaigns
    Judging [Napoleon] by modern standards is foolish. [snip].
    Even at the time, pillaging across Europe and soaking it in blood for fifteen years was somewhat frowned upon.
    It was an age of Empire, we had our own, just in Canada, Oceania and emerging in India at the time
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,800
    edited November 2023
    If Napoleon had said in 1809, after Wagram, that France’s territorial ambitions were now fulfilled, I expect that the war would have come to an end. Austria would have settled for the Emperor’s daughter being married to him, and Russia had no reason to go to war.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    Hamas announces it's pausing hostage releases. It says Israel has broken the deal. Israel says it hasn't.

    Like I have said repeatedly if you're looking for heroes in the Middle East, you need your eyes testing.
  • Options
    CCHQ planning to attack Labour over "uncontrolled immigration".

    Truly the age of satire is over.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    Hamas announces it's pausing hostage releases. It says Israel has broken the deal. Israel says it hasn't.

    Like I have said repeatedly if you're looking for heroes in the Middle East, you need your eyes testing.

    Does this mean another round of marches, front bench resignations and generally being nasty to each other...in this country?
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,046
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Even if Leon is correct, that doesn't mean we should in any way reduce our support to Ukraine or push for any kind of negotiated end to the conflict.

    This is Ukraine's fight. They have been invaded. And it is our moral duty to support them as long as they wish to continue.

    Anything else is bullshit.

    Without seeing it I'm going to predict it's just a reheated version of the talk at the beginning of the 2022 invasion, that it's all hopeless and therefore fighting is pointless, dressed up as pragmatism and presented as if it is a fresh new argument this time?

    A companion piece to the alternative 'fighting is awful, therefore peace immediately no matter the cost must be the moral position' you get on the Corbynite side, as if noone has ever heard of some causes being worth fighting for before.
    I'm more pessimistic because it seems as though the fog around the US's true stance on the war is clearing. In the past we've put it down to fears of escalation, financial issues, keeping Nato together etc. Now it seems that the US really doesn't want Ukraine to succeed and would rather see a stalemate. The reason for this isn't too clear, I can guess at things like trying to stop Russia falling into China's orbit (it's there already), fear of chaos in Russia if they lose, not wanting to be seen as empire builders in the global south.

    On the Telegraph Ukraine podcast they were quite clear yesterday about how morale in Ukraine has dropped but that's not because they are resigned to losing or a stalemate but because they are resigned to a long war. That is a significant difference.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    geoffw said:

    When we go to see Napoleon we'll pay attention to the kitting-out of the horses, and wait for the credits saying our daughter did that

    She was crucial to Napoleon's rein?
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,326
    Good bet - already gone out to 1/9, but still good.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    Yeay, exactly 3120 weeks of Doctor Who!
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,554
    edited November 2023

    CCHQ planning to attack Labour over "uncontrolled immigration".

    Truly the age of satire is over.

    Truth is it might actually work for them with some voters. Remember those talking heads before the Hartlepool by-election saying they were voting Tory because nothing ever changed with Labour in power?

    But more generally I’d say every time they increase the salience of immigration in the news they peel off a few more voters to Refuk.
  • Options
    Hamas's military wing, the Qassam Brigades, says it has decided to delay the release of the second batch of hostages until Israel commits to letting aid lorries into northern Gaza.
  • Options
    Superstar manager Wayne Rooney finally manages to win a football match :D
  • Options

    Superstar manager Wayne Rooney finally manages to win a football match :D

    The clubs who think that Rooney has the capabilities to be a manger in the modern football world are as thick as he is.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,318
    Fishing said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, having seen Ridley Scott's Napoleon I can kind of see why the French apparently dislike it, since it makes him seem like a bit of an idiot and has a title screen showing the numbers of people who died in the battles he fought and the length of his reign.

    Well played, Sir Ridley.

    We saw it last night. I don't think it made him seem an idiot, it showed how his military successes at Toulon and the weak revolutionary government got him to power and his Austerlitz victory made him the most powerful figure in Europe and he was able to return to France and raise an army even when sent to exile in Elba.

    It did though yes largely ignore his domestic successes and emphasised the costs of his campaigns
    Judging [Napoleon] by modern standards is foolish. [snip].
    Even at the time, pillaging across Europe and soaking it in blood for fifteen years was somewhat frowned upon.
    The problem for Napoleon was that, by the end, he'd convinced everyone that he would never, ever stop trying to conquer stuff.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937

    Hamas's military wing, the Qassam Brigades, says it has decided to delay the release of the second batch of hostages until Israel commits to letting aid lorries into northern Gaza.

    Was that part of the deal or not?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited November 2023

    Hamas's military wing, the Qassam Brigades, says it has decided to delay the release of the second batch of hostages until Israel commits to letting aid lorries into northern Gaza.

    Was that part of the deal or not?
    They have a list of claims now, the prisoners to be released aren't the ones they want, they claims drones were flying, two people were killed during the ceasefire, etc.

    I imagine it is mostly BS. This is the problem with negotiating with terrorists.
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 4,772
    TimS said:

    CCHQ planning to attack Labour over "uncontrolled immigration".

    Truly the age of satire is over.

    Truth is it might actually work for them with some voters. Remember those talking heads before the Hartlepool by-election saying they were voting Tory because nothing ever changed with Labour in power?

    But more generally I’d say every time they increase the salience of immigration in the news they peel off a few more voters to Refuk.
    Hartlepool must be one of the thickest towns in the UK .

    Highlights the danger of allowing stupid people to vote .
  • Options
    TresTres Posts: 2,216
    nico679 said:

    TimS said:

    CCHQ planning to attack Labour over "uncontrolled immigration".

    Truly the age of satire is over.

    Truth is it might actually work for them with some voters. Remember those talking heads before the Hartlepool by-election saying they were voting Tory because nothing ever changed with Labour in power?

    But more generally I’d say every time they increase the salience of immigration in the news they peel off a few more voters to Refuk.
    Hartlepool must be one of the thickest towns in the UK .

    Highlights the danger of allowing stupid people to vote .
    Almost as thick as Uxbridge.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859
    rcs1000 said:

    Even if @Leon is correct, that doesn't mean we should in any way reduce our support to Ukraine or push for any kind of negotiated end to the conflict.

    This is Ukraine's fight. They have been invaded. And it is our moral duty to support them as long as they wish to continue.

    Anything else is bullshit.

    Well of course. If Ukraine want to keep fighting - which they do - then their allies should keep up the fight behind the front lines. We should unequivocally support any country in Europe that gets invaded.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,014
    ydoethur said:

    Hamas announces it's pausing hostage releases. It says Israel has broken the deal. Israel says it hasn't.

    Like I have said repeatedly if you're looking for heroes in the Middle East, you need your eyes testing.

    this was always the way it was going to play out. It’s why Hamas wanted a staggered release and Israel wanted it all at one.

    Unfortunately our friends in the White House are too quick to trade. They don’t understand the nature of the people they are dealing with.

    Hamas gets another round of “the Jews are evil/untrustworthy/perfidious” because “they broke the ceasefire”. It doesn’t matter whether it is true or not - there are too many in the west who are willing to believe the worst of Israel
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited November 2023

    ydoethur said:

    Hamas announces it's pausing hostage releases. It says Israel has broken the deal. Israel says it hasn't.

    Like I have said repeatedly if you're looking for heroes in the Middle East, you need your eyes testing.

    this was always the way it was going to play out. It’s why Hamas wanted a staggered release and Israel wanted it all at one.

    Unfortunately our friends in the White House are too quick to trade. They don’t understand the nature of the people they are dealing with.

    Hamas gets another round of “the Jews are evil/untrustworthy/perfidious” because “they broke the ceasefire”. It doesn’t matter whether it is true or not - there are too many in the west who are willing to believe the worst of Israel
    Already been onto the blower to BBC to have a good moan and laundry list of claims that the Israelis are untrustworthy.

    Strange no "this can't be verified" in their reporting, unlike the tunnels under the hospital.

    Clearly the idea is to drag it out as long as possible, and never give back the full 200+. Just get rid of the ones that are a pain because they need regular medicines or moaning kids.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,014

    ydoethur said:

    Hamas announces it's pausing hostage releases. It says Israel has broken the deal. Israel says it hasn't.

    Like I have said repeatedly if you're looking for heroes in the Middle East, you need your eyes testing.

    this was always the way it was going to play out. It’s why Hamas wanted a staggered release and Israel wanted it all at one.

    Unfortunately our friends in the White House are too quick to trade. They don’t understand the nature of the people they are dealing with.

    Hamas gets another round of “the Jews are evil/untrustworthy/perfidious” because “they broke the ceasefire”. It doesn’t matter whether it is true or not - there are too many in the west who are willing to believe the worst of Israel
    Already been onto the blower to BBC to have a good moan and laundry list of claims that the Israelis are untrustworthy.

    Strange no "this can't be verified" in their reporting, unlike the tunnels under the hospital.

    Clearly the idea is to drag it out as long as possible, and never give back the full 200+.
    And presumably the BBC listened politely, without challenge, because of “balance”
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 4,772
    Is there an agreement on paper. Surely this would clear up whose to blame .
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited November 2023
    nico679 said:

    Is there an agreement on paper. Surely this would clear up whose to blame .

    You seem to think that Israel have done a deal with good faith actors and any minor quibbles over meanings of sub-clauses can swiftly be cleared up with some lawyers.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,141
    ydoethur said:

    Hamas announces it's pausing hostage releases. It says Israel has broken the deal. Israel says it hasn't.

    Like I have said repeatedly if you're looking for heroes in the Middle East, you need your eyes testing.

    'Blind among enemies, O worse then chains, Dungeon, or beggery, or decrepit age!'
    from Milton: Samson Agonistes in the Prison at Gaza
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 4,772

    nico679 said:

    Is there an agreement on paper. Surely this would clear up whose to blame .

    You seem to think that Israel have done a deal with good faith actors.
    Well there must be observers in Qatar at least who can vouch for what was agreed .
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,014
    nico679 said:

    Is there an agreement on paper. Surely this would clear up whose to blame .

    No because Hamas is making unverifiable claims
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,800
    nico679 said:

    TimS said:

    CCHQ planning to attack Labour over "uncontrolled immigration".

    Truly the age of satire is over.

    Truth is it might actually work for them with some voters. Remember those talking heads before the Hartlepool by-election saying they were voting Tory because nothing ever changed with Labour in power?

    But more generally I’d say every time they increase the salience of immigration in the news they peel off a few more voters to Refuk.
    Hartlepool must be one of the thickest towns in the UK .

    Highlights the danger of allowing stupid people to vote .
    The Tory ultras of 1830 would agree with you.
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 4,772

    nico679 said:

    Is there an agreement on paper. Surely this would clear up whose to blame .

    No because Hamas is making unverifiable claims
    There really should have been a written agreement which was released to the media before the first hostages were allowed to leave .
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,046
    I remember Russell Crowe being interviewed and him saying that Ridley Scott was a francophobe.

    I suppose centuries of propaganda takes a lot of time to be corrected.
  • Options
    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,442
    edited November 2023

    ydoethur said:

    Hamas announces it's pausing hostage releases. It says Israel has broken the deal. Israel says it hasn't.

    Like I have said repeatedly if you're looking for heroes in the Middle East, you need your eyes testing.

    this was always the way it was going to play out. It’s why Hamas wanted a staggered release and Israel wanted it all at one.

    Unfortunately our friends in the White House are too quick to trade. They don’t understand the nature of the people they are dealing with.

    Hamas gets another round of “the Jews are evil/untrustworthy/perfidious” because “they broke the ceasefire”. It doesn’t matter whether it is true or not - there are too many in the west who are willing to believe the worst of Israel
    Sounds like you don't know.

    "A source with direct knowledge tells me Hamas & Israel agreed that the criteria for release of Palestinian prisoners will be the amount of time they were in prison. Whoever served more time will be released first. On Friday this wasn't the case and Hamas claims it's a violation"

    https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1728449247731999160
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,800
    The UN has contradicted Hamas’ claim that only 3 aid trucks were allowed into Northern Gaza.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited November 2023

    ydoethur said:

    Hamas announces it's pausing hostage releases. It says Israel has broken the deal. Israel says it hasn't.

    Like I have said repeatedly if you're looking for heroes in the Middle East, you need your eyes testing.

    this was always the way it was going to play out. It’s why Hamas wanted a staggered release and Israel wanted it all at one.

    Unfortunately our friends in the White House are too quick to trade. They don’t understand the nature of the people they are dealing with.

    Hamas gets another round of “the Jews are evil/untrustworthy/perfidious” because “they broke the ceasefire”. It doesn’t matter whether it is true or not - there are too many in the west who are willing to believe the worst of Israel
    Sounds like you don't know.

    "A source with direct knowledge tells me Hamas & Israel agreed that the criteria for release of Palestinian prisoners will be the amount of time they were in prison. Whoever served more time will be released first. On Friday this wasn't the case and Hamas claims it's a violation"

    https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1728449247731999160
    Is his source Hamas?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181

    I remember Russell Crowe being interviewed and him saying that Ridley Scott was a francophobe.

    I suppose centuries of propaganda takes a lot of time to be corrected.

    I don't think Russell Crowe's *that* old.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,141
    Francophobe : frog-prodder
  • Options
    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,442
    edited November 2023

    ydoethur said:

    Hamas announces it's pausing hostage releases. It says Israel has broken the deal. Israel says it hasn't.

    Like I have said repeatedly if you're looking for heroes in the Middle East, you need your eyes testing.

    this was always the way it was going to play out. It’s why Hamas wanted a staggered release and Israel wanted it all at one.

    Unfortunately our friends in the White House are too quick to trade. They don’t understand the nature of the people they are dealing with.

    Hamas gets another round of “the Jews are evil/untrustworthy/perfidious” because “they broke the ceasefire”. It doesn’t matter whether it is true or not - there are too many in the west who are willing to believe the worst of Israel
    Sounds like you don't know.

    "A source with direct knowledge tells me Hamas & Israel agreed that the criteria for release of Palestinian prisoners will be the amount of time they were in prison. Whoever served more time will be released first. On Friday this wasn't the case and Hamas claims it's a violation"

    https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1728449247731999160
    Is his source Hamas?
    The fuck do I know, but its a little more interesting than StillWater's effluent.

    "Barak Ravid (Hebrew: ברק רביד, born 22 May 1980) is an Israeli journalist and commentator, who worked for Israel's Channel 13 News.[1] He is also active in the English-language media, writing for Axios about Israeli politics.

    At age 18 he was drafted to the Israeli military, serving in the intelligence division of Unit 8200. "
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,014
    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Is there an agreement on paper. Surely this would clear up whose to blame .

    No because Hamas is making unverifiable claims
    There really should have been a written agreement which was released to the media before the first hostages were allowed to leave .
    There will be a written agreement. That’s not the issue. Hamas’s claims are essentially unverifiable.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,141
    That hero of Ridley Scott's film walks talks among us doesn't he? Knappo Leon
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,014

    ydoethur said:

    Hamas announces it's pausing hostage releases. It says Israel has broken the deal. Israel says it hasn't.

    Like I have said repeatedly if you're looking for heroes in the Middle East, you need your eyes testing.

    this was always the way it was going to play out. It’s why Hamas wanted a staggered release and Israel wanted it all at one.

    Unfortunately our friends in the White House are too quick to trade. They don’t understand the nature of the people they are dealing with.

    Hamas gets another round of “the Jews are evil/untrustworthy/perfidious” because “they broke the ceasefire”. It doesn’t matter whether it is true or not - there are too many in the west who are willing to believe the worst of Israel
    Sounds like you don't know.

    "A source with direct knowledge tells me Hamas & Israel agreed that the criteria for release of Palestinian prisoners will be the amount of time they were in prison. Whoever served more time will be released first. On Friday this wasn't the case and Hamas claims it's a violation"

    https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/17284
    49247731999160
    That’s only one claim that they have made

    But it sounds like there is someone specific that they want released

    I’d also highlight these incidents (from Google and based on statements from the IDF so if you like you can claim they are unverified while believing everything that Hamas says)

    https://www.newsweek.com/israel-hamas-ceasefire-violated-15-minutes-rocket-gaza-strip-1846564


  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,014

    ydoethur said:

    Hamas announces it's pausing hostage releases. It says Israel has broken the deal. Israel says it hasn't.

    Like I have said repeatedly if you're looking for heroes in the Middle East, you need your eyes testing.

    this was always the way it was going to play out. It’s why Hamas wanted a staggered release and Israel wanted it all at one.

    Unfortunately our friends in the White House are too quick to trade. They don’t understand the nature of the people they are dealing with.

    Hamas gets another round of “the Jews are evil/untrustworthy/perfidious” because “they broke the ceasefire”. It doesn’t matter whether it is true or not - there are too many in the west who are willing to believe the worst of Israel
    Sounds like you don't know.

    "A source with direct knowledge tells me Hamas & Israel agreed that the criteria for release of Palestinian prisoners will be the amount of time they were in prison. Whoever served more time will be released first. On Friday this wasn't the case and Hamas claims it's a violation"

    https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1728449247731999160
    Is his source Hamas?
    The fuck do I know, but its a little more interesting than StillWater's effluent.

    "Barak Ravid (Hebrew: ברק רביד, born 22 May 1980) is an Israeli journalist and commentator, who worked for Israel's Channel 13 News.[1] He is also active in the English-language media, writing for Axios about Israeli politics.

    At age 18 he was drafted to the Israeli military, serving in the intelligence division of Unit 8200. "
    May be I know better than to trust Hamas?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,161
    ydoethur said:

    Hamas announces it's pausing hostage releases. It says Israel has broken the deal. Israel says it hasn't.

    Like I have said repeatedly if you're looking for heroes in the Middle East, you need your eyes testing.

    Well there's those Doctors Without Frontiers.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    I remember Russell Crowe being interviewed and him saying that Ridley Scott was a francophobe.

    I suppose centuries of propaganda takes a lot of time to be corrected.

    I don't think Russell Crowe's *that* old.
    "ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED? ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED? IS THIS NOT WHY YOU ARE HERE?"
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 4,772

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Is there an agreement on paper. Surely this would clear up whose to blame .

    No because Hamas is making unverifiable claims
    There really should have been a written agreement which was released to the media before the first hostages were allowed to leave .
    There will be a written agreement. That’s not the issue. Hamas’s claims are essentially unverifiable.
    Surely the UN know how many aid trucks got into northern Gaza and the prisoner issue would be in writing . I’m reserving judgement until more news comes out. Hopefully this is just a small delay and the hostage release can re-start .
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181

    ydoethur said:

    I remember Russell Crowe being interviewed and him saying that Ridley Scott was a francophobe.

    I suppose centuries of propaganda takes a lot of time to be corrected.

    I don't think Russell Crowe's *that* old.
    "ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED? ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED? IS THIS NOT WHY YOU ARE HERE?"
    Did you turn the volume to the Maximus with those caps?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,698
    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, having seen Ridley Scott's Napoleon I can kind of see why the French apparently dislike it, since it makes him seem like a bit of an idiot and has a title screen showing the numbers of people who died in the battles he fought and the length of his reign.

    Well played, Sir Ridley.

    We saw it last night. I don't think it made him seem an idiot, it showed how his military successes at Toulon and the weak revolutionary government got him to power and his Austerlitz victory made him the most powerful figure in Europe and he was able to return to France and raise an army even when sent to exile in Elba.

    It did though yes largely ignore his domestic successes and emphasised the costs of his campaigns
    I haven't seen it, but it ignores him reintroducing slavery doesn't it?
    It is not particularly woke yes but then it also doesn't mention him giving equality to French Jews either.

    However it has beaten the woke new Marvel film 'The Marvels' at the box office this week and is second on the latest US box office numbers behind the new Hunger Games movie and is doing better than projected in the UK, Europe (including surprisingly in France despite unfavourable reviews there), Australia and Latin America too
    https://www.boxofficemojo.com/
    https://deadline.com/2023/11/napoleon-wish-opening-weekend-global-international-box-office-1235637258/
    However both were beaten by "The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes". This bodes well for the political future of President Snow. Go District 12!
  • Options
    Endillion said:

    Sean_F said:

    The UN has contradicted Hamas’ claim that only 3 aid trucks were allowed into Northern Gaza.

    I for one am stunned that a genocidal homicidal homophobic misogynistic terrorist organisation would also tun out to be economical with the truth when it suits them.

    Just who the hell can you trust these days?
    Test:


  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,161

    ydoethur said:

    Hamas announces it's pausing hostage releases. It says Israel has broken the deal. Israel says it hasn't.

    Like I have said repeatedly if you're looking for heroes in the Middle East, you need your eyes testing.

    this was always the way it was going to play out. It’s why Hamas wanted a staggered release and Israel wanted it all at one.

    Unfortunately our friends in the White House are too quick to trade. They don’t understand the nature of the people they are dealing with.

    Hamas gets another round of “the Jews are evil/untrustworthy/perfidious” because “they broke the ceasefire”. It doesn’t matter whether it is true or not - there are too many in the west who are willing to believe the worst of Israel
    Already been onto the blower to BBC to have a good moan and laundry list of claims that the Israelis are untrustworthy.

    Strange no "this can't be verified" in their reporting, unlike the tunnels under the hospital.

    Clearly the idea is to drag it out as long as possible, and never give back the full 200+.
    And presumably the BBC listened politely, without challenge, because of “balance”
    The BBCs coverage is pretty balanced. If you think it isn't it probably means you aren't.

    Ch4 otoh, they have a bit of an anti-Israel bias.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,698
    ydoethur said:

    I remember Russell Crowe being interviewed and him saying that Ridley Scott was a francophobe.

    I suppose centuries of propaganda takes a lot of time to be corrected.

    I don't think Russell Crowe's *that* old.
    He does look it tho.
  • Options
    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,442

    ydoethur said:

    Hamas announces it's pausing hostage releases. It says Israel has broken the deal. Israel says it hasn't.

    Like I have said repeatedly if you're looking for heroes in the Middle East, you need your eyes testing.

    this was always the way it was going to play out. It’s why Hamas wanted a staggered release and Israel wanted it all at one.

    Unfortunately our friends in the White House are too quick to trade. They don’t understand the nature of the people they are dealing with.

    Hamas gets another round of “the Jews are evil/untrustworthy/perfidious” because “they broke the ceasefire”. It doesn’t matter whether it is true or not - there are too many in the west who are willing to believe the worst of Israel
    Sounds like you don't know.

    "A source with direct knowledge tells me Hamas & Israel agreed that the criteria for release of Palestinian prisoners will be the amount of time they were in prison. Whoever served more time will be released first. On Friday this wasn't the case and Hamas claims it's a violation"

    https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/17284
    49247731999160
    That’s only one claim that they have made

    But it sounds like there is someone specific that they want released

    I’d also highlight these incidents (from Google and based on statements from the IDF so if you like you can claim they are unverified while believing everything that Hamas says)

    https://www.newsweek.com/israel-hamas-ceasefire-violated-15-minutes-rocket-gaza-strip-1846564


    You believe an Israeli journalist with a background in military intelligence will be quoting Hamas sources, really?

    Look, we both have no idea what's going on and both sides are hamming it up to the world so do we need the self-referential bollocks below?

    "Hamas gets another round of “the Jews are evil/untrustworthy/perfidious” because “they broke the ceasefire”. It doesn’t matter whether it is true or not - there are too many in the west who are willing to believe the worst of Israel "
This discussion has been closed.