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The voters back Sunak’s decision to sack Braverman including Tory voters – politicalbetting.com

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  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,828

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    We need more of these titles to really address our problems - the problem is not the issues, it's the titles. They aren't inspiring. "Deputy Minister for Work and Pensions". YAWN. How about

    The River Pollution Reichskommisar

    The Wheelie Bin Obersturmfuhrer

    The Great Mongol Khan of the Golden Horde of Litter Collection

    We used to be good at it. Chancellor of the Exchequer. Paymaster General.

    It all went down hill when we started having “departments” rather than ministries and we lost the bottle to have a Ministry of War.
    Yes, exactly, more drama and theatre is needed

    "Addressing the House, Andrea Leadsom, recently appointed Intergalactic Warlord of Heat Pump Installation"
    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    We need more of these titles to really address our problems - the problem is not the issues, it's the titles. They aren't inspiring. "Deputy Minister for Work and Pensions". YAWN. How about

    The River Pollution Reichskommisar

    The Wheelie Bin Obersturmfuhrer

    The Great Mongol Khan of the Golden Horde of Litter Collection

    We used to be good at it. Chancellor of the Exchequer. Paymaster General.

    It all went down hill when we started having “departments” rather than ministries and we lost the bottle to have a Ministry of War.
    President of the Board of Trade had a decent ring to it. Any idea what happened to that? Business Secretary is a bit shit, has echoes of taking the minutes in 1980s sales meetings.
    I think the incumbent still has to be President of the Lord of Trade (like the Justice Sec still has to be Lord Chancellor) but they don’t use the titles.

    The campaign to bring them back starts here. Are you reading Sir Keir?
    I seem to remember that Hezza revived the use of the title "President of the Board of Trade". Romantic Welshman and all that. His successor, Ian Lang I think, dropped it and went back to being the boring old SoS for Trade and Industry. Shame.
    Mr Heseltine did - it was much commented on at the time, not very positively.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    In other #reshuffle news a @UKLabour source tells me up to 17 frontbenchers expect to be sacked on Weds for backing @SNP on the #Gaza ceasefire vote. They say unless @Keir_Starmer uses the words “immediate ceasefire” they can’t vote with Labour and expect to be fired.

    Errrr..... what?
    Is Sunak about to have a bit of good luck? A divided Labour Party with a whiff of the ghost of Corbyn?
    Why isn't this massive news? Sounds like 3/4 of the Labour shadow cabinet is about to quit?
    Front bench != cabinet.
    RCS One Hundred
    Blundered
    Actually as far as I can recall that's not been true at any time
    But he has a handle that's terrbily difficult to find something to rhyme
    With.
    RCS1000
    Is not one who bows and
    Scrapes to those who cut his name by 90 percent
    Unless of course they've got his prior written consent
    Good grief! I've been reading it wrong all these years. Well done for putting me right in clerihew form though. Elegantly done.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,662
    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    We need more of these titles to really address our problems - the problem is not the issues, it's the titles. They aren't inspiring. "Deputy Minister for Work and Pensions". YAWN. How about

    The River Pollution Reichskommisar

    The Wheelie Bin Obersturmfuhrer

    The Great Mongol Khan of the Golden Horde of Litter Collection

    The Dalai of AI.
    The Lama of Internet Truth?
    Noooo!

    it has to be the Llama Lama

    https://ai.meta.com/llama/

    Oh God please do it. "Laura Trott, the Llama Lama, said today....."

    OK @kjh has a point, I need fresh air
    They need to appoint a minister for the Blue Wall - the Aga Aga.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,404
    Carnyx said:

    biggles said:

    Carnyx said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    We need more of these titles to really address our problems - the problem is not the issues, it's the titles. They aren't inspiring. "Deputy Minister for Work and Pensions". YAWN. How about

    The River Pollution Reichskommisar

    The Wheelie Bin Obersturmfuhrer

    The Great Mongol Khan of the Golden Horde of Litter Collection

    We used to be good at it. Chancellor of the Exchequer. Paymaster General.

    It all went down hill when we started having “departments” rather than ministries and we lost the bottle to have a Ministry of War.
    Yes, exactly, more drama and theatre is needed

    "Addressing the House, Andrea Leadsom, recently appointed Intergalactic Warlord of Heat Pump Installation"
    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    We need more of these titles to really address our problems - the problem is not the issues, it's the titles. They aren't inspiring. "Deputy Minister for Work and Pensions". YAWN. How about

    The River Pollution Reichskommisar

    The Wheelie Bin Obersturmfuhrer

    The Great Mongol Khan of the Golden Horde of Litter Collection

    We used to be good at it. Chancellor of the Exchequer. Paymaster General.

    It all went down hill when we started having “departments” rather than ministries and we lost the bottle to have a Ministry of War.
    President of the Board of Trade had a decent ring to it. Any idea what happened to that? Business Secretary is a bit shit, has echoes of taking the minutes in 1980s sales meetings.
    I think the incumbent still has to be President of the Lord of Trade (like the Justice Sec still has to be Lord Chancellor) but they don’t use the titles.

    The campaign to bring them back starts here. Are you reading Sir Keir?
    Bring back also the Groom of the King's Close Stool, why not?
    Shall we commission some privateers to sort the balance of trade as well?
    Excellent, and why not ? Make our new FS earn his grog.
    Need to reinstall the gallows at Execution Dock, though.
    Yes, but they would be environmentally responsible gallows made from recycled wood and we would insist on a gender neutral executioner.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,624

    dixiedean said:

    Am confused.
    We've just had a Party Conference and King's Speech which veered to the Right in the wake of Uxbridge.
    No effect.
    Now it seems the balance in Cabinet is moving in the other direction.
    Who's the trolley here?

    I don’t know, but the Tories have been riding all of us for years.

    Now that I’ve had a chance to consider it, Rishi has missed another opportunity here. He should simply have fired Braverman and replaced him temporarily with her number two (Tom Tugendhat).

    He could then have done a full re-shuffle after the Autumn Statement, since it is widely rumoured that Hunt will retire at the next election.

    Cameron adds gravitas, but not much else, and he seems to provoke the backbenches.
    Also just barely possible, that David Cameron might (emphasis on conditional) be able to have some positive influence on resolving current wars in Ukraine and Gaza.

    CHANGING THE SUBJECT, what is your (very early) view of the new government of New Zealand?
    Cameron was bit of a Putinist useful idiot if you read his memoirs. He says he gave Putin the idea of holding a referendum in Crimea.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    @patrickwintour

    The survival skills of Steve Barclay are amazing. He has just been appointed to his seventh ministerial job since 2017. This is totally a reflection on me rather than him, but I cannot remember a single thing he has said or done.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    algarkirk said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    "Fire Up the Government" - as someone might have once said. I'm also tempted by the Guardian's view that if David Cameron is seen as the answer, no one has understood the question.

    The role of Foreign Secretary has been progressively diluted over the years first as a result of the emphasis moving to the EU and second the more Presidential nature of politics. As an example of this, the Prime Minister-elect in New Zealand, Christopher Luxon, had wanted his first significant act to be seen shaking President Biden's hand at the APEC summit. It hasn't happended and it's being viewed as a setback

    The second question therefore is what is the deal? Will we see foreign policy move back from the Cabinet Office and No.10 to the FCO? It was Conservative anger with the FCO that did much to undermine Carington in 1982. It will be interesting to see the extent to which Sunak will sub-contract for example the current crisis in Gaza and the Russia-Ukraine war to Cameron.

    The problem is foreign policy butters no parsnips as another former Conservative leader and PM might have said. Apart from @TSE, I doubt many votes have been changed today though as @HYUFD has also opined, the departure of Braverman will infuriate some in the party and might push some Conservatives into the warm embrace of Mr Tice.

    Whether this is Sunak's last throw of the dice I don't know but he is now a prisoner of his own taking. His Chancellor , Foreign and Home Secretaries are not for moving - the polls haven't moved at all in 2023. The Conservative poll rating in tonight's R&W poll is the same as it was in January. HIs former Home Secretary sits brooding on the back benches.

    Short term, a fillip for the Conservatives - longer term, it may make little or no difference at all.

    The possible difference is simply this: Sunak, barring further black swans, can't win, but today may make a difference to the manner in which he loses.

    Does he want to lose as a rancorous Braverman style rabble of Reform/Lozza/Goodwin lookalikes; or does he want to lose as a decent looking bunch of Tories who could have within them the seeds of winning within 10 years.

    He knows in his heart that the polls are not showing a massive Labour win because the Tories aren't sufficiently populist right wing.
    I also have the sense Sunak isn't a populist at heart. He enjoyed being popular (not the same thing) with EOTHO in 2020 and anyone giving away free money is generally well received (some questions to answer about the scale of fraud in the distribution of Covid funds perhaps?). However, he's now slogged in the trenches for a year and has got the sum total of bugger all to show for it.

    Perhaps trying to create a more "moderate" Government will impress the voters - it won't satisfy some (tomorrow's Mail and Express front pages will be informative) but as you say he has two options - lose badly or lose very badly.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    @patrickwintour

    The survival skills of Steve Barclay are amazing. He has just been appointed to his seventh ministerial job since 2017. This is totally a reflection on me rather than him, but I cannot remember a single thing he has said or done.

    He extended the strikes in the NHS...
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    @patrickwintour

    The survival skills of Steve Barclay are amazing. He has just been appointed to his seventh ministerial job since 2017. This is totally a reflection on me rather than him, but I cannot remember a single thing he has said or done.

    He's always had 'don't do stuff' appointments. I think it's hard to argue that he's done well at that. (Actually there may be a small plus for him in that)
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited November 2023

    dixiedean said:

    Am confused.
    We've just had a Party Conference and King's Speech which veered to the Right in the wake of Uxbridge.
    No effect.
    Now it seems the balance in Cabinet is moving in the other direction.
    Who's the trolley here?

    I don’t know, but the Tories have been riding all of us for years.

    Now that I’ve had a chance to consider it, Rishi has missed another opportunity here. He should simply have fired Braverman and replaced him temporarily with her number two (Tom Tugendhat).

    He could then have done a full re-shuffle after the Autumn Statement, since it is widely rumoured that Hunt will retire at the next election.

    Cameron adds gravitas, but not much else, and he seems to provoke the backbenches.
    Also just barely possible, that David Cameron might (emphasis on conditional) be able to have some positive influence on resolving current wars in Ukraine and Gaza.

    CHANGING THE SUBJECT, what is your (very early) view of the new government of New Zealand?
    NZ doesn’t have a new government yet.
    Chris Luxton, the PM-assumptive (someone called him PM-elect upthread, which doesn’t make sense) has to bolt something together between three parties.

    I have low-ish expectations.
    The reality is that while Labour underperformed, National did NOT do well enough to win with headroom. So they are stuck “negotiating” with Winston Peters.

    Luxton seems competent, but he’s been in politics for just three years. Apart from cleaning up Labour’s mess, I’m not sure what his new government will be “for”. Or if they can actually agree on anything.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,828
    stodge said:

    algarkirk said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    "Fire Up the Government" - as someone might have once said. I'm also tempted by the Guardian's view that if David Cameron is seen as the answer, no one has understood the question.

    The role of Foreign Secretary has been progressively diluted over the years first as a result of the emphasis moving to the EU and second the more Presidential nature of politics. As an example of this, the Prime Minister-elect in New Zealand, Christopher Luxon, had wanted his first significant act to be seen shaking President Biden's hand at the APEC summit. It hasn't happended and it's being viewed as a setback

    The second question therefore is what is the deal? Will we see foreign policy move back from the Cabinet Office and No.10 to the FCO? It was Conservative anger with the FCO that did much to undermine Carington in 1982. It will be interesting to see the extent to which Sunak will sub-contract for example the current crisis in Gaza and the Russia-Ukraine war to Cameron.

    The problem is foreign policy butters no parsnips as another former Conservative leader and PM might have said. Apart from @TSE, I doubt many votes have been changed today though as @HYUFD has also opined, the departure of Braverman will infuriate some in the party and might push some Conservatives into the warm embrace of Mr Tice.

    Whether this is Sunak's last throw of the dice I don't know but he is now a prisoner of his own taking. His Chancellor , Foreign and Home Secretaries are not for moving - the polls haven't moved at all in 2023. The Conservative poll rating in tonight's R&W poll is the same as it was in January. HIs former Home Secretary sits brooding on the back benches.

    Short term, a fillip for the Conservatives - longer term, it may make little or no difference at all.

    The possible difference is simply this: Sunak, barring further black swans, can't win, but today may make a difference to the manner in which he loses.

    Does he want to lose as a rancorous Braverman style rabble of Reform/Lozza/Goodwin lookalikes; or does he want to lose as a decent looking bunch of Tories who could have within them the seeds of winning within 10 years.

    He knows in his heart that the polls are not showing a massive Labour win because the Tories aren't sufficiently populist right wing.
    I also have the sense Sunak isn't a populist at heart. He enjoyed being popular (not the same thing) with EOTHO in 2020 and anyone giving away free money is generally well received (some questions to answer about the scale of fraud in the distribution of Covid funds perhaps?). However, he's now slogged in the trenches for a year and has got the sum total of bugger all to show for it.

    Perhaps trying to create a more "moderate" Government will impress the voters - it won't satisfy some (tomorrow's Mail and Express front pages will be informative) but as you say he has two options - lose badly or lose very badly.
    Er, "slogged in the trenches"? Don't you mean "resided in the chateau"? And Eat Out to Help Covid is also questionable given the increased death rate ascribed to it .

    Not that I differ, otherwise.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    edited November 2023
    TimS said: "An eruption of the scale of Laki is unlikely. This is probably going to be a fissure eruption but no indication at the moment that it will be plinian or SO2 rich."

    I agree that the odds are against a signficant global climate altering eruption. Perhaps even against a measurable effect on climate. (But ask your local volcanologist, before placing any bets.)

    But I am quite serious when I say the world needs to prepare for such an eruption.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Esther McVey is the new minister for shooting your gob off.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    Scott_xP said:

    @patrickwintour

    The survival skills of Steve Barclay are amazing. He has just been appointed to his seventh ministerial job since 2017. This is totally a reflection on me rather than him, but I cannot remember a single thing he has said or done.

    He extended the strikes in the NHS...
    I do wonder if the new SofS will attempt to get a far better relationship with the health unions especially coming into an election year. Sunak won’t want nurses and doctors on strike during an election campaign.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,662
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    In other #reshuffle news a @UKLabour source tells me up to 17 frontbenchers expect to be sacked on Weds for backing @SNP on the #Gaza ceasefire vote. They say unless @Keir_Starmer uses the words “immediate ceasefire” they can’t vote with Labour and expect to be fired.

    Errrr..... what?
    Is Sunak about to have a bit of good luck? A divided Labour Party with a whiff of the ghost of Corbyn?
    Why isn't this massive news? Sounds like 3/4 of the Labour shadow cabinet is about to quit?
    Front bench != cabinet.
    RCS One Hundred
    Blundered
    Actually as far as I can recall that's not been true at any time
    But he has a handle that's terrbily difficult to find something to rhyme
    With.
    RCS1000
    Is not one who bows and
    Scrapes to those who cut his name by 90 percent
    Unless of course they've got his prior written consent
    Good grief! I've been reading it wrong all these years. Well done for putting me right in clerihew form though. Elegantly done.
    Who knows, some time ago you may have been right. That's inflation for you.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300

    Rishi Sunak took an axe
    And gave Suella forty whacks.
    When he saw what he had done,
    He gave old Coffey forty-one.

    You are Lizzie Borden and I claim my £5.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    This is a day long to be remembered. It has seen the end of Suella. It shall soon see the end of the Tory Party.

    Nonsense
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited November 2023

    Bring back George Osborne and Labour will struggle.

    There is a great deal of wishful thinking going on here today.

    Maybe the Tories win the next election, either through general attrition against Labour or a series of black swan events.

    Cameron and Osborne are not well liked (except by TSE) and FS is a decent role for Cameron's skill set, but what do you have in mind for Gids? Minister for Austerity or Minister for Wizard Wheezes. Although they could throw another EU Referendum I suppose.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,828
    edited November 2023
    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    We need more of these titles to really address our problems - the problem is not the issues, it's the titles. They aren't inspiring. "Deputy Minister for Work and Pensions". YAWN. How about

    The River Pollution Reichskommisar

    The Wheelie Bin Obersturmfuhrer

    The Great Mongol Khan of the Golden Horde of Litter Collection

    We used to be good at it. Chancellor of the Exchequer. Paymaster General.

    It all went down hill when we started having “departments” rather than ministries and we lost the bottle to have a Ministry of War.
    Yes, exactly, more drama and theatre is needed

    "Addressing the House, Andrea Leadsom, recently appointed Intergalactic Warlord of Heat Pump Installation"
    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    We need more of these titles to really address our problems - the problem is not the issues, it's the titles. They aren't inspiring. "Deputy Minister for Work and Pensions". YAWN. How about

    The River Pollution Reichskommisar

    The Wheelie Bin Obersturmfuhrer

    The Great Mongol Khan of the Golden Horde of Litter Collection

    We used to be good at it. Chancellor of the Exchequer. Paymaster General.

    It all went down hill when we started having “departments” rather than ministries and we lost the bottle to have a Ministry of War.
    President of the Board of Trade had a decent ring to it. Any idea what happened to that? Business Secretary is a bit shit, has echoes of taking the minutes in 1980s sales meetings.
    I think the incumbent still has to be President of the Lord of Trade (like the Justice Sec still has to be Lord Chancellor) but they don’t use the titles.

    The campaign to bring them back starts here. Are you reading Sir Keir?
    Bring back also the Groom of the King's Close Stool, why not?
    For some political leaders I can see plenty of takers for the position. Tell me Trump couldn't get someone to do it.

    It is a matter of some debate as to whether the duties involved cleaning the king's anus, but the groom is known to have been responsible for supplying a bowl, water and towels and also for monitoring the king's diet and bowel movements
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groom_of_the_Stool
    If I was a King and had wrenched my back or shoulder, I'd damn well want the full service.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355

    Nigelb said: "Massive crack emitting steam.
    https://twitter.com/TheInsiderPaper/status/1724106414115950756 "

    As I said here quite recently, we need to be prepared for global cooling, as well as global warming.

    This precedent should worry all of us: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laki

    It's not the cold that's the main problem with that sort of eruption, it's the lack of sunlight and the effect that has on crop growth (or lack of it).
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,662
    edited November 2023
    Patrick Wintour:
    Elsewhere in former prime minister news, Tony Blair has let it be known that he is available if needed...

    (...to help in an effort to end the growing crisis in Israel and Palestine, obvs.)

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2023/nov/13/suella-braverman-rishi-sunak-cabinet-reshuffle-conservatives-uk-politics-latest#top-of-blog
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    dixiedean said:

    Am confused.
    We've just had a Party Conference and King's Speech which veered to the Right in the wake of Uxbridge.
    No effect.
    Now it seems the balance in Cabinet is moving in the other direction.
    Who's the trolley here?

    I don’t know, but the Tories have been riding all of us for years.

    Now that I’ve had a chance to consider it, Rishi has missed another opportunity here. He should simply have fired Braverman and replaced him temporarily with her number two (Tom Tugendhat).

    He could then have done a full re-shuffle after the Autumn Statement, since it is widely rumoured that Hunt will retire at the next election.

    Cameron adds gravitas, but not much else, and he seems to provoke the backbenches.
    He has one more trick up his sleeve…

    If Hunt does go shortly before the election, there is another former PM waiting in the wings to take on the daunting role of chancellor. Whose wealth of cabinet experience and economic nous will change the narrative.

    Liz Truss, thy hour is at hand.
    Nonsense
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    dixiedean said:

    Am confused.
    We've just had a Party Conference and King's Speech which veered to the Right in the wake of Uxbridge.
    No effect.
    Now it seems the balance in Cabinet is moving in the other direction.
    Who's the trolley here?

    I don’t know, but the Tories have been riding all of us for years.

    Now that I’ve had a chance to consider it, Rishi has missed another opportunity here. He should simply have fired Braverman and replaced him temporarily with her number two (Tom Tugendhat).

    He could then have done a full re-shuffle after the Autumn Statement, since it is widely rumoured that Hunt will retire at the next election.

    Cameron adds gravitas, but not much else, and he seems to provoke the backbenches.
    He has one more trick up his sleeve…

    If Hunt does go shortly before the election, there is another former PM waiting in the wings to take on the daunting role of chancellor. Whose wealth of cabinet experience and economic nous will change the narrative.

    Liz Truss, thy hour is at hand.
    Nonsense
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    We need more of these titles to really address our problems - the problem is not the issues, it's the titles. They aren't inspiring. "Deputy Minister for Work and Pensions". YAWN. How about

    The River Pollution Reichskommisar

    The Wheelie Bin Obersturmfuhrer

    The Great Mongol Khan of the Golden Horde of Litter Collection

    We used to be good at it. Chancellor of the Exchequer. Paymaster General.

    It all went down hill when we started having “departments” rather than ministries and we lost the bottle to have a Ministry of War.
    We must preserve what inherent silliness still remains. For example, I don't want to live in a country where MPs can just resign, rather than be appointed as Crown Steward and Bailiff of the Chiltern Hundreds.
    Yes, certainly.
    And administratively too. The Soke of Peterborough used to be something of a trope on here.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,828
    edited November 2023
    DougSeal said:

    In the midst of becoming political tipster of the year on the back of the Truss comeback, and also while struggling to find me and the rest of my team jobs in the face of a £65m fraud on the part of the new owner of my firm, I was writing up my MA dissertation this summer and am relieved to say I passed. At one point I didn’t even think I’d finish it.

    Just shy of a distinction for that element (boo!) but, by my calculations, the rest of my coursework might have just tipped me over into that territory (a distinction is 70% of available marks and I reckon I got 70.5% - we’ll see) so if you want to know anything about saints in the English Reformation and Renaissance, I’m your seal.

    How about monks?

    But more importantly - congratulations. I'm always very impressed by people doing those things while holding down full time jobs.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,624

    Patrick Wintour:
    Elsewhere in former prime minister news, Tony Blair has let it be known that he is available if needed...

    (...to help in an effort to end the growing crisis in Israel and Palestine, obvs.)

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2023/nov/13/suella-braverman-rishi-sunak-cabinet-reshuffle-conservatives-uk-politics-latest#top-of-blog

    He can sense the hand of history shaking the global kaleidoscope.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    Nigelb said:

    Massive crack emitting steam.
    https://twitter.com/TheInsiderPaper/status/1724106414115950756

    Not sure I’d go that close to it.

    Apparently the magma is rising 3.5 km to the NE. In the town the ground is subsiding.
    https://en.vedur.is/about-imo/news/a-seismic-swarm-started-north-of-grindavik-last-night
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    dixiedean said:

    Am confused.
    We've just had a Party Conference and King's Speech which veered to the Right in the wake of Uxbridge.
    No effect.
    Now it seems the balance in Cabinet is moving in the other direction.
    Who's the trolley here?

    I don’t know, but the Tories have been riding all of us for years.

    Now that I’ve had a chance to consider it, Rishi has missed another opportunity here. He should simply have fired Braverman and replaced him temporarily with her number two (Tom Tugendhat).

    He could then have done a full re-shuffle after the Autumn Statement, since it is widely rumoured that Hunt will retire at the next election.

    Cameron adds gravitas, but not much else, and he seems to provoke the backbenches.
    He has one more trick up his sleeve…

    If Hunt does go shortly before the election, there is another former PM waiting in the wings to take on the daunting role of chancellor. Whose wealth of cabinet experience and economic nous will change the narrative.

    Liz Truss, thy hour is at hand.
    Ahem…as I was saying…
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Carnyx said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    We need more of these titles to really address our problems - the problem is not the issues, it's the titles. They aren't inspiring. "Deputy Minister for Work and Pensions". YAWN. How about

    The River Pollution Reichskommisar

    The Wheelie Bin Obersturmfuhrer

    The Great Mongol Khan of the Golden Horde of Litter Collection

    We used to be good at it. Chancellor of the Exchequer. Paymaster General.

    It all went down hill when we started having “departments” rather than ministries and we lost the bottle to have a Ministry of War.
    Yes, exactly, more drama and theatre is needed

    "Addressing the House, Andrea Leadsom, recently appointed Intergalactic Warlord of Heat Pump Installation"
    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    We need more of these titles to really address our problems - the problem is not the issues, it's the titles. They aren't inspiring. "Deputy Minister for Work and Pensions". YAWN. How about

    The River Pollution Reichskommisar

    The Wheelie Bin Obersturmfuhrer

    The Great Mongol Khan of the Golden Horde of Litter Collection

    We used to be good at it. Chancellor of the Exchequer. Paymaster General.

    It all went down hill when we started having “departments” rather than ministries and we lost the bottle to have a Ministry of War.
    President of the Board of Trade had a decent ring to it. Any idea what happened to that? Business Secretary is a bit shit, has echoes of taking the minutes in 1980s sales meetings.
    I think the incumbent still has to be President of the Lord of Trade (like the Justice Sec still has to be Lord Chancellor) but they don’t use the titles.

    The campaign to bring them back starts here. Are you reading Sir Keir?
    Bring back also the Groom of the King's Close Stool, why not?
    Reinstate Pooh Bah The Lord High Everything Else.
  • TimS said: "An eruption of the scale of Laki is unlikely. This is probably going to be a fissure eruption but no indication at the moment that it will be plinian or SO2 rich."

    I agree that the odds are against a signficant global climate altering eruption. Perhaps even against a measurable effect on climate. (But ask your local volcanologist, before placing any bets.)

    But I am quite serious when I say the world needs to prepare for such an eruption.

    The world rarely prepares for anything until Mother Nature makes it an ongoing crisis...
  • Bring back George Osborne and Labour will struggle.

    There is a great deal of wishful thinking going on here today.

    Maybe the Tories win the next election, either through general attrition against Labour or a series of black swan events.

    Cameron and Osborne are not well liked (except by TSE) and FS is a decent role for Cameron's skill set, but what do you have in mind for Gids? Minister for Austerity or Minister for Wizard Wheezes. Although they could throw another EU Referendum I suppose.
    The problem for the Tories is having Cameron back is just showing up how effin’ awful their current stock of talent is.

    Just listen to his interview this evening. He has more political skill in his fingernail than all of the cabinet.

    I am left this evening wondering why we can’t just have Dave back as PM. He started this long period of Tory government, let’s have him finish it, stand on his record and (in all likelihood) go down with the ship.

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Nigelb said: "Massive crack emitting steam.
    https://twitter.com/TheInsiderPaper/status/1724106414115950756 "

    As I said here quite recently, we need to be prepared for global cooling, as well as global warming.

    This precedent should worry all of us: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laki

    To avoid massive cracks emitting steam avoid drinking Guinness the same night as having a curry. Made that mistake once too often.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300

    TimS said: "An eruption of the scale of Laki is unlikely. This is probably going to be a fissure eruption but no indication at the moment that it will be plinian or SO2 rich."

    I agree that the odds are against a signficant global climate altering eruption. Perhaps even against a measurable effect on climate. (But ask your local volcanologist, before placing any bets.)

    But I am quite serious when I say the world needs to prepare for such an eruption.

    I saw some photos of another eruption from Etna taken last night.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,914
    edited November 2023

    HYUFD said:


    [snip!]
    Labour of course effectively abandoned centrist voters for the left for 10 years from 2010 to 2020

    Just remind me again how they did in elections after abandoning the centre. Was it great success?
    HYUFD said:

    ... so can't really criticise.

    Of course I can criticise. I am not a natural Labour voter. I used to be a natural Conservative voter.
    HYUFD said:

    Indeed Sunak, Cameron and Hunt are about as centrist a Tory party as you are likely to get for the next decade

    Well then, enjoy Opposition...
    To be fair to Ed Miliband and Corbyn they all got a higher voteshare than the 29% Brown got in 2010 and Corbyn got a higher voteshare in 2017 than even Blair did in 2005
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,662
    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said: "Massive crack emitting steam.
    https://twitter.com/TheInsiderPaper/status/1724106414115950756 "

    As I said here quite recently, we need to be prepared for global cooling, as well as global warming.

    This precedent should worry all of us: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laki

    To avoid massive cracks emitting steam avoid drinking Guinness the same night as having a curry. Made that mistake once too often.
    That's massive craic, shirley?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    ….
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986

    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    We need more of these titles to really address our problems - the problem is not the issues, it's the titles. They aren't inspiring. "Deputy Minister for Work and Pensions". YAWN. How about

    The River Pollution Reichskommisar

    The Wheelie Bin Obersturmfuhrer

    The Great Mongol Khan of the Golden Horde of Litter Collection

    The Dalai of AI.
    The Lama of Internet Truth?
    Noooo!

    it has to be the Llama Lama

    https://ai.meta.com/llama/

    Oh God please do it. "Laura Trott, the Llama Lama, said today....."

    OK @kjh has a point, I need fresh air
    They need to appoint a minister for the Blue Wall - the Aga Aga.
    The Aga Khan, surely. And there’s someone perfectly suited, once he hands over the mayoralty to Ed Balls.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Bring back George Osborne and Labour will struggle.

    There is a great deal of wishful thinking going on here today.

    Maybe the Tories win the next election, either through general attrition against Labour or a series of black swan events.

    Cameron and Osborne are not well liked (except by TSE) and FS is a decent role for Cameron's skill set, but what do you have in mind for Gids? Minister for Austerity or Minister for Wizard Wheezes. Although they could throw another EU Referendum I suppose.
    The problem for the Tories is having Cameron back is just showing up how effin’ awful their current stock of talent is.

    Just listen to his interview this evening. He has more political skill in his fingernail than all of the cabinet.

    I am left this evening wondering why we can’t just have Dave back as PM. He started this long period of Tory government, let’s have him finish it, stand on his record and (in all likelihood) go down with the ship.

    Dave's problem is his unwavering self belief verging on arrogance.

    His jobs with the Conservative Party and ITV were gimmes. He was, after the usual rite of passage handed his safe seat, and then as a lucky general won one and a half elections, the Sindy vote (courtesy of Brown and Darling) and thought himself invincible. And then came the EU Referendum and it all came tumbling around his ears.

    I doubt he learned any humility.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @joncraig

    As he leaves the New Conservatives group meeting in the Commons, attended by 20 MPs, Sky News asks Tory deputy chairman Lee Anderson: “Lee, may we have a word, please?” His reply: “I’ll give you two!”
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    My daughter has insisted I install an APP called 'been'.

    You put in the countries where you have - err - been.

    Apparently I've been to 16% of the world. 33 countries.

    Who can beat that? Leon obvs.

    (We have defined 'been' as staying at least one night (i.e. not just passing through).)

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    @patrickwintour

    The survival skills of Steve Barclay are amazing. He has just been appointed to his seventh ministerial job since 2017. This is totally a reflection on me rather than him, but I cannot remember a single thing he has said or done.

    Steve Who?

    BTW I wonder if it will be Suella Who? in about 3 months. The next election is shaping up to being between two leaders who don't really do hate or populism very well. Good.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    edited November 2023
    Roger said:

    Unfortunately most of Rishi's clowns are still there. Grant Shapps wants all those with placards reading 'From the River to the Sea' or carrying the Socialist Worker where it's on it's cover arrested.

    I bet they've got lawyers hanging off the lamposts offering to represent anyone brought to trial. It could make the defendants as famous as the editors of OZ

    Don’t give them ideas about woke activist lawyers hanging from lampposts.
  • The sky is a woke virtue signaller

    It gives us all this weather diversity, then shows off with fucking rainbows
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    edited November 2023
    Scott_xP said:

    @joncraig

    As he leaves the New Conservatives group meeting in the Commons, attended by 20 MPs, Sky News asks Tory deputy chairman Lee Anderson: “Lee, may we have a word, please?” His reply: “I’ll give you two!”

    Die Hard 2 fan!

    Samantha Coleman: Colonel Stuart, could we have a few words please?
    Col. Stuart: You can have two: "fuck" and "you".
    Garber: [grabbing the TV Camera] No pictures, you pinko bitch!
  • sarissa said:

    Nigelb said:

    Massive crack emitting steam.
    https://twitter.com/TheInsiderPaper/status/1724106414115950756

    Not sure I’d go that close to it.

    Apparently the magma is rising 3.5 km to the NE. In the town the ground is subsiding.
    https://en.vedur.is/about-imo/news/a-seismic-swarm-started-north-of-grindavik-last-night


    Picture from that Icelandic Met Office site.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986

    TimS said: "An eruption of the scale of Laki is unlikely. This is probably going to be a fissure eruption but no indication at the moment that it will be plinian or SO2 rich."

    I agree that the odds are against a signficant global climate altering eruption. Perhaps even against a measurable effect on climate. (But ask your local volcanologist, before placing any bets.)

    But I am quite serious when I say the world needs to prepare for such an eruption.

    The world rarely prepares for anything until Mother Nature makes it an ongoing crisis...
    Quite difficult to prepare for though. Beyond preparing those immediately affected by the blast and pyroclastic flows you’re talking 2-3 years of cooling, and drought in some regions, cold wet summers in others accompanied by crop failures. The only real protection against that is to hoard grain.

    The scale of cooling from Pinatubo was around 0.4C ie twice an El Niño/La Nina. Something on scale of Laki or Tambora would be much more serious. Tambora cooled the earth by as much as 3C. That would take us to around 1.5-2C below pre-industrial norms, for 2 crop cycles. Likely big drought in some of the major crop producing regions.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    Bring back George Osborne and Labour will struggle.

    There is a great deal of wishful thinking going on here today.

    Maybe the Tories win the next election, either through general attrition against Labour or a series of black swan events.

    Cameron and Osborne are not well liked (except by TSE) and FS is a decent role for Cameron's skill set, but what do you have in mind for Gids? Minister for Austerity or Minister for Wizard Wheezes. Although they could throw another EU Referendum I suppose.
    The problem for the Tories is having Cameron back is just showing up how effin’ awful their current stock of talent is.

    Just listen to his interview this evening. He has more political skill in his fingernail than all of the cabinet.

    I am left this evening wondering why we can’t just have Dave back as PM. He started this long period of Tory government, let’s have him finish it, stand on his record and (in all likelihood) go down with the ship.

    He should have stayed after the Referendum. The Tory government policy was to let us decide; we did so. This was not a failure of Tory policy but an action of that policy. having decided the policy that we decide Cameron should have been there to implement it, with a coherent plan for what to do.

    One more point: if things go according to polling, the lack of talent matters nothing. There will be a total clear out, and new talent in 2028/9.
  • Stocky said:

    My daughter has insisted I install an APP called 'been'.

    You put in the countries where you have - err - been.

    Apparently I've been to 16% of the world. 33 countries.

    Who can beat that? Leon obvs.

    (We have defined 'been' as staying at least one night (i.e. not just passing through).)

    But does it tell you if you’ve ever been to you?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited November 2023
    algarkirk said:

    Bring back George Osborne and Labour will struggle.

    There is a great deal of wishful thinking going on here today.

    Maybe the Tories win the next election, either through general attrition against Labour or a series of black swan events.

    Cameron and Osborne are not well liked (except by TSE) and FS is a decent role for Cameron's skill set, but what do you have in mind for Gids? Minister for Austerity or Minister for Wizard Wheezes. Although they could throw another EU Referendum I suppose.
    The problem for the Tories is having Cameron back is just showing up how effin’ awful their current stock of talent is.

    Just listen to his interview this evening. He has more political skill in his fingernail than all of the cabinet.

    I am left this evening wondering why we can’t just have Dave back as PM. He started this long period of Tory government, let’s have him finish it, stand on his record and (in all likelihood) go down with the ship.

    He should have stayed after the Referendum. The Tory government policy was to let us decide; we did so. This was not a failure of Tory policy but an action of that policy. having decided the policy that we decide Cameron should have been there to implement it, with a coherent plan for what to do.

    One more point: if things go according to polling, the lack of talent matters nothing. There will be a total clear out, and new talent in 2028/9.
    I doubt staying was realistically an option, even though people pretended he would not quit if Remain lost.

    Just look at all the shit people who were Leavers got if they proposed something others did not like, accused of not truly believing in it. Christ, Sunak was a Leaver and was still labelled the remainer traitor candidate against Truss.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,662
    Stocky said:

    My daughter has insisted I install an APP called 'been'.

    You put in the countries where you have - err - been.

    Apparently I've been to 16% of the world. 33 countries.

    Who can beat that? Leon obvs.

    (We have defined 'been' as staying at least one night (i.e. not just passing through).)

    Can we now classify you as 'has been'?
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747

    Bring back George Osborne and Labour will struggle.

    According to Nad that's what this is all about. And she should know. (Ahem)

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1724031131975066103

    "Also, this now opens the door for the rerun of Osborne.

    "He will want a safe seat, if such a thing exists and then into leader of the opposition slot.

    "You heard it here first.

    "Nothing happens by accident for these guys. It is all long planned."
  • Following the death of Lord Brougham and Vaux on 27 August 2023 there is another hereditary peer by-election, this time elected by the whole House with the successor expected to sit as a Conservative.

    Candidature statements

    Annaly, L. (Conservative)
    Short Service Commission Royal Hussars 4 years
    RARO 8 years
    Previously member of House from 1991
    Government Whip 1994
    Conservative District Councillor 2007-2010
    Steward for BHSA 2006-2020
    Logistics Driver 2007-2023 – Delivering & demonstrating vehicles nationwide on remuneration close to minimum wage

    Ashbourne, L. (Conservative)
    Experienced and highly regarded mining financial professional from a Naval family with considerable media experience (used to host LBC's 'Dawn Traders'). Resident in the division bell area and a party member for over three decades, I have extensive knowledge and experience in the fields of mining, finance, science, history, Ireland and Africa (inter alia). I am seeking election to be a part of the solution that finally arrests 80 years of relative British decline.

    Baillieu, L. (Conservative)
    I am a Conservative Party member, who wishes to become a working member of the House. For 45 years I worked in banking and financial consulting in Australia (17 years), in Hong Kong (5 years), covering China, Taiwan, and the Philippines, and in Russia and Ukraine (23 years). I have wide experience of cross border negotiations in parts of the world which are now politically significant. Interests: The Commonwealth, and International Trade.

    Bristol, M. (Conservative)
    I run a successful property technology company which I founded 8 years ago. Previously lived and worked in the Baltic States for 8 years. Also worked within the UK residential and commercial property sector. Involved with 6 wide-ranging charities in Suffolk, one of which I founded. Other interests include heritage, countryside, and international relations. Aged 44, I live in London, and am willing and able to commit fully and energetically to the House if elected.

    Camoys, L. (Conservative)
    My 26 years' experience in investment and foreign affairs, including running my own business advising on Western engagement in China (based in Beijing from 2010-15) follows my time in the Foreign Office (Afghanistan, Iran, India and Counter Terrorism). A founder of the UK's premier film studio planned for Marlow and chairman of a Nepalese nature conservation charity, I would look to contribute on foreign affairs, finance, nature conservation and the creative economy.

    Eglinton and Winton, E. (Conservative)
    ln the last year I have been a regular attendee at ACP meetings; renewed my Party membership, attended the Scottish Party Conference in Glasgow in April. A former Royal Navy Officer I believe in national defence, strong immigration policy, healthy and sustainable economic growth with fit for-purpose-services. I am also a keen supporter of the Union. I look forward to being an active & full-time member of the House and the Party.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    From one of the many previous threads (sorry only just catching up)

    "What would you do if someone shouted "Death to all Jews" right next to you at Victoria Station?

    This is a serious question, but not a personal one. I've been asking myself the same, ever since I saw the vid

    I hope I would have given her a ticking off and told her to shut the F up and go away. But I fear I might have been so shocked - and so used to British politeness - I would have just stood there in silent surprise, gobsmacked and mute

    If there is any good to come out of this, it is that these incidents have shaken away any complacency about anti-Semitism. It exists, it is out there, it is deeply nasty, and it needs to be confronted.
    "

    I don't know what I would do in such a situation. I'd like to think that I would confront someone behaving in such a way. All I will say that seeing the reaction of Jewish friends to what has happened here has upset me. Hence this.

    https://chng.it/TXRTGk5Xqp

    Regardless of one's views on Gaza, Israel, the West Bank etc, we should surely all be against the sort of anti-Jewish prejudice, verbal abuse etc seen on our streets here against our fellow citizens.

    It is only a little thing but it is something. Edmund Burke's quote seems apt:

    "Nobody makes a greater mistake than he who does nothing because he could do only a little.


  • I certainly think the Cons chances in the next GE have gone up - even if they remain very small. Very small beats zero.

    Mr Sunak likes to think of himself as a man of the right. His initial instinct was to pivot to the right and he gave it a year, culminating in the ludicrous conference speech claiming to be the 'change' candidate. It was a disaster. Con polling down to the mid-twenties and voters rushing away to both the centre AND the right.

    You didn't need No 10's focus groups and polling to see that - but clearly they were telling the same story, very loudly and brutally. So we have today.

    A couple of the most obviously useless Ministers have gone. James Cleverly may follow mostly the same policies as Suella but will do so without frightening the horses, without causing outrage for the hell of it. A marked improvement on his predecessor.

    Cameron is a skilled and experienced politician. Appointing him Foreign Secretary is risky in more than one way but he really is their best option. They don't have a huge pool of experienced talent to draw on. Too many years of posts being wasted on the inept. He can also advise Mr Sunak on how to win British elections - advice the PM sorely needs.

    So will the pivot to the centre work? The Windsor Framework aftermath suggests there are many voters who are persuadable. However, some of the foolishness of the last year will have made convincing them much harder.

    At least there seems to now be a Con plan that doesn't ignore the basic numbers of how the current electorate are thinking. Amazing that Mr Sunak, of all people, was ignoring basic maths for so long!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,914
    edited November 2023

    Bring back George Osborne and Labour will struggle.

    According to Nad that's what this is all about. And she should know. (Ahem)

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1724031131975066103

    "Also, this now opens the door for the rerun of Osborne.

    "He will want a safe seat, if such a thing exists and then into leader of the opposition slot.

    "You heard it here first.

    "Nothing happens by accident for these guys. It is all long planned."
    How is Osborne going to win a Tory members vote to become Leader of the Opposition even if the Tories lose but he holds a safe seat?
  • Elibank, L. (Conservative)
    In my career I have worked in the Technology sector and Energy sector and I am currently working for Reading University as a fundraiser. The latter two have given me considerable insight into the challenges of addressing climate change. I am a lifelong Conservative supporter and I would hope to be a diligent, effective and collegiate member of the House.

    Falmouth, V. (Conservative)
    I have a passion creating activity, in manufacturing, the voluntary sector and the first English
    tea plantation. VP Cornwall Community Foundation, President of Young People Cornwall
    and Trustee National Maritime Museum Cornwall. Proprietor of a group of companies
    employing some 650 people delivering B2B labelling solutions including wristbands (HM
    Queen’s Lying in State), electromagnetic coils for the automotive industry among others.
    Major emphasis on bringing suppliers back to the UK with focus on exports.

    Hamilton of Dalzell, L. (Conservative)
    Chartered Accountant, managed finance teams for Deutsche Post/DHL. Developed family estate in Shropshire into a thriving diversified business encompassing retail, hospitality, commercial property and a significant regenerative arable and livestock farming enterprise.
    Creating environmental improvements and wetlands. Passionate about the rural community, a Deputy Lieutenant and involved with local voluntary organisations.
    Dedicated Conservative Party member, serving as President of the South Shropshire association, campaigning for MPs and councillors and a contributor to Conservative Home.

    Hazlerigg, L. (Conservative)
    Successful entrepreneur who founded the Noisily Festival of Music and Arts and Floan, a POS finance business. Previous experience in renewables, passionate for sustainability; and driven by a desire to make palliative care a right. I feel that with my direct experience, I would be able to offer fresh and practical insight to these areas which need help to grow and flourish. 36, London-based, Frequent attendee at the ACP and driven to make a difference.

    Mountgarret, V. (Conservative)
    The honour and the privilege of this position is not underestimated. I have time to commit to the House as evidenced by multiple and numerous attendances at the Wednesday meetings. I bring domestic and international business experience to the table, I am well travelled. My downtime is often spent with my four children, two of whom I raised as a sole custodian.

    Napier and Ettrick, L. (Conservative)
    My life experience as someone who has succeeded in business despite significant challenges due to severe hearing impairments since my birth, would enable me to make a distinctive and valuable contribution to the House. However, I believe this difference will bring a much needed balance to the House, especially at a time when society is continuously becoming more divisive and complex. I am 60. I live near Cambridge but I commute to London.
    Diligent attendee.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    TimS said: "An eruption of the scale of Laki is unlikely. This is probably going to be a fissure eruption but no indication at the moment that it will be plinian or SO2 rich."

    I agree that the odds are against a signficant global climate altering eruption. Perhaps even against a measurable effect on climate. (But ask your local volcanologist, before placing any bets.)

    But I am quite serious when I say the world needs to prepare for such an eruption.

    What sort of preparation can be made for such an event? I am sure everyone has Massive Meteorite, Global Attack By Aliens, Unknown Plague That Kills Everyone, Global Harvest Fail, Volcano Abolishes Summer Worldwide, 1000 Nuclear Missiles Used Worldwide etc on their Risk Register scoring 100% for impact, but that doesn't mean there is anything you can do.

  • Rossmore, L. (Conservative)
    Age 40, live in London and run my own business.
    • Visited Ukraine in May, to film long-form interviews with Zelensky’s Economic Advisor, the best firearms instructor in the country, and a potential future president.
    • Set up a scholarship at Cambridge in August, and enlisted the Chief Mars Landing Engineer at SpaceX and the founder of the London Institute for Mathematical Sciences as mentors.
    • Teach music like a language online to 40,000 students.

    Windlesham, L. (Conservative)
    I am honoured to announce my candidacy for the forthcoming by-election. With extensive experience in financial services, I am an accomplished professional who is passionately interested in climate change and the transition to Net Zero. If elected, I would play an active role in scrutinising and revising legislation, as well as promoting honesty, transparency, accountability and effective governance.
    I humbly request your support in allowing me to be of service to our great nation.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    HYUFD said:

    Bring back George Osborne and Labour will struggle.

    According to Nad that's what this is all about. And she should know. (Ahem)

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1724031131975066103

    "Also, this now opens the door for the rerun of Osborne.

    "He will want a safe seat, if such a thing exists and then into leader of the opposition slot.

    "You heard it here first.

    "Nothing happens by accident for these guys. It is all long planned."
    How is Osborne going to win a Tory members vote to become Leader of the Opposition even if the Tories lose but he holds a safe seat?
    TSE is going to harvest the votes.....
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    edited November 2023
    Stocky said:

    My daughter has insisted I install an APP called 'been'.

    You put in the countries where you have - err - been.

    Apparently I've been to 16% of the world. 33 countries.

    Who can beat that? Leon obvs.

    (We have defined 'been' as staying at least one night (i.e. not just passing through).)

    My son’s got the same app. 44 countries. Need to clock up some Caribbean islands to boost the total. I have a friend on over 100 and trying to get everywhere but he’s having to visit some pretty crap places now.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    edited November 2023
    I'm in a state of deep depression tonight that my fantasy of personally dragging Nick Gibb out of the DfE and having him whipped through the streets of London by crowds of angry parents is forever stilled.

    Sigh.

    (On that subject, Keegan is an unselfaware twat. Teachers and children are not sad at his departure. They were literally cheering and high-fiving at the news.)
  • kle4 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Bring back George Osborne and Labour will struggle.

    There is a great deal of wishful thinking going on here today.

    Maybe the Tories win the next election, either through general attrition against Labour or a series of black swan events.

    Cameron and Osborne are not well liked (except by TSE) and FS is a decent role for Cameron's skill set, but what do you have in mind for Gids? Minister for Austerity or Minister for Wizard Wheezes. Although they could throw another EU Referendum I suppose.
    The problem for the Tories is having Cameron back is just showing up how effin’ awful their current stock of talent is.

    Just listen to his interview this evening. He has more political skill in his fingernail than all of the cabinet.

    I am left this evening wondering why we can’t just have Dave back as PM. He started this long period of Tory government, let’s have him finish it, stand on his record and (in all likelihood) go down with the ship.

    He should have stayed after the Referendum. The Tory government policy was to let us decide; we did so. This was not a failure of Tory policy but an action of that policy. having decided the policy that we decide Cameron should have been there to implement it, with a coherent plan for what to do.

    One more point: if things go according to polling, the lack of talent matters nothing. There will be a total clear out, and new talent in 2028/9.
    I doubt staying was realistically an option, even though people pretended he would not quit if Remain lost.

    Just look at all the shit people who were Leavers got if they proposed something others did not like, accused of not truly believing in it. Christ, Sunak was a Leaver and was still labelled the remainer traitor candidate against Truss.
    Otoh Cameron was probably the last Tory pm with anything close to a track record of holding the Conservative Party coalition together plus an ability to compromise with other parties; even the FLSOJ needed bogeyman Corbyn to get where he did.

    With a bit of application and hard work Dave might have made a better fist of negotiating a workable Brexit than any of his successors. I realise the hard work and application may have been a problem.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    DougSeal said:

    In the midst of becoming political tipster of the year on the back of the Truss comeback, and also while struggling to find me and the rest of my team jobs in the face of a £65m fraud on the part of the new owner of my firm, I was writing up my MA dissertation this summer and am relieved to say I passed. At one point I didn’t even think I’d finish it.

    Just shy of a distinction for that element (boo!) but, by my calculations, the rest of my coursework might have just tipped me over into that territory (a distinction is 70% of available marks and I reckon I got 70.5% - we’ll see) so if you want to know anything about saints in the English Reformation and Renaissance, I’m your seal.

    Truthfully, not a subject that's ever held my interest, but many congratulations anyway. Fingers crossed for the Dist.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @stevedouble

    I have this evening written to the Prime Minister to inform him of my decision to leave government. This was a decision I made several weeks ago and informed the Chief Whip at the time. This is a personal decision I have reached that is right for me, my family and constituents.


    No, me neither...
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239

    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    We need more of these titles to really address our problems - the problem is not the issues, it's the titles. They aren't inspiring. "Deputy Minister for Work and Pensions". YAWN. How about

    The River Pollution Reichskommisar

    The Wheelie Bin Obersturmfuhrer

    The Great Mongol Khan of the Golden Horde of Litter Collection

    The Dalai of AI.
    The Lama of Internet Truth?
    Noooo!

    it has to be the Llama Lama

    https://ai.meta.com/llama/

    Oh God please do it. "Laura Trott, the Llama Lama, said today....."

    OK @kjh has a point, I need fresh air
    They need to appoint a minister for the Blue Wall - the Aga Aga.
    "Shouting aga aga aga aga, shouting aga aga aga aga, mega mega white thing..."
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990


    Were we expecting a School trip today?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,662
    HYUFD said:

    Bring back George Osborne and Labour will struggle.

    According to Nad that's what this is all about. And she should know. (Ahem)

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1724031131975066103

    "Also, this now opens the door for the rerun of Osborne.

    "He will want a safe seat, if such a thing exists and then into leader of the opposition slot.

    "You heard it here first.

    "Nothing happens by accident for these guys. It is all long planned."
    How is Osborne going to win a Tory members vote to become Leader of the Opposition even if the Tories lose but he holds a safe seat?
    Only half of the past six Tory leadership elections have gone to the membership.
  • I certainly think the Cons chances in the next GE have gone up - even if they remain very small. Very small beats zero.

    Mr Sunak likes to think of himself as a man of the right. His initial instinct was to pivot to the right and he gave it a year, culminating in the ludicrous conference speech claiming to be the 'change' candidate. It was a disaster. Con polling down to the mid-twenties and voters rushing away to both the centre AND the right.

    You didn't need No 10's focus groups and polling to see that - but clearly they were telling the same story, very loudly and brutally. So we have today.

    A couple of the most obviously useless Ministers have gone. James Cleverly may follow mostly the same policies as Suella but will do so without frightening the horses, without causing outrage for the hell of it. A marked improvement on his predecessor.

    Cameron is a skilled and experienced politician. Appointing him Foreign Secretary is risky in more than one way but he really is their best option. They don't have a huge pool of experienced talent to draw on. Too many years of posts being wasted on the inept. He can also advise Mr Sunak on how to win British elections - advice the PM sorely needs.

    So will the pivot to the centre work? The Windsor Framework aftermath suggests there are many voters who are persuadable. However, some of the foolishness of the last year will have made convincing them much harder.

    At least there seems to now be a Con plan that doesn't ignore the basic numbers of how the current electorate are thinking. Amazing that Mr Sunak, of all people, was ignoring basic maths for so long!

    With the loss of Suella, who gets the dubious honour of Chief Nutter In The Cabinet?

    McVey, possibly, but her job is designed to talk a lot but not actually do anything.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    About this time last year I stood in the lava field of Laki. The biggest in the world I believe

    I saw the place where the lava met the ocean




    About a quarter of Iceland’s population died. If we get another Laki we are fucked
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,914
    edited November 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Bring back George Osborne and Labour will struggle.

    According to Nad that's what this is all about. And she should know. (Ahem)

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1724031131975066103

    "Also, this now opens the door for the rerun of Osborne.

    "He will want a safe seat, if such a thing exists and then into leader of the opposition slot.

    "You heard it here first.

    "Nothing happens by accident for these guys. It is all long planned."
    How is Osborne going to win a Tory members vote to become Leader of the Opposition even if the Tories lose but he holds a safe seat?
    Only half of the past six Tory leadership elections have gone to the membership.
    And the ones that haven't have mainly been to directly elect the PM and when they haven't gone to the membership a large majority of Tory MPs have backed the winning candidate. I can't see any circumstances where Osborne gets over 50% of Tory MPs to make him Leader of the Opposition by coronation and the ERG agree too and pull out their candidate
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,624
    Scott_xP said:

    @stevedouble

    I have this evening written to the Prime Minister to inform him of my decision to leave government. This was a decision I made several weeks ago and informed the Chief Whip at the time. This is a personal decision I have reached that is right for me, my family and constituents.

    No, me neither...

    Steve Barclay has a double?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Scott_xP said:



    Were we expecting a School trip today?

    I'll say this for Sunak, he has taken some funny pictures.

    None better than his Macron one though.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,662
    Leon said:

    About this time last year I stood in the lava field of Laki. The biggest in the world I believe

    I saw the place where the lava met the ocean




    About a quarter of Iceland’s population died. If we get another Laki we are fucked

    I was hoping you were on a flight out there to give us a "from our own correspondent" feed ;-)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,662
    Scott_xP said:



    Were we expecting a School trip today?

    Even the mantlepiece is taller than Sunak.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    About this time last year I stood in the lava field of Laki. The biggest in the world I believe

    I saw the place where the lava met the ocean




    About a quarter of Iceland’s population died. If we get another Laki we are fucked

    I was hoping you were on a flight out there to give us a "from our own correspondent" feed ;-)
    Sadly not. Tho I am going somewhere interesting

    Iceland is so fabulous and they now have a brilliant volcano museum next to Laki. You are left in no doubt of the devastation wrought - and also that this will certainly happen again, some time soon

    Hopefully not now
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990





    ...

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    I note this reappointment comes barely a month after his "Change from previous consensus" speech at conference.
    Now objectively I don't think that was a terrible idea for a speech, but he obviously didn't mean a word of it as the appointment of DC - again in isolation not a terrible move clearly shows
    A PM with no conviction
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    Leon said:

    About this time last year I stood in the lava field of Laki. The biggest in the world I believe

    I saw the place where the lava met the ocean




    About a quarter of Iceland’s population died. If we get another Laki we are fucked

    Well Reykjavik certainly is.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,662
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    About this time last year I stood in the lava field of Laki. The biggest in the world I believe

    I saw the place where the lava met the ocean




    About a quarter of Iceland’s population died. If we get another Laki we are fucked

    I was hoping you were on a flight out there to give us a "from our own correspondent" feed ;-)
    Sadly not. Tho I am going somewhere interesting

    Iceland is so fabulous and they now have a brilliant volcano museum next to Laki. You are left in no doubt of the devastation wrought - and also that this will certainly happen again, some time soon

    Hopefully not now
    Indeed, we have been for a couple of weeks a while back - fascinating place. Amazing scenery and geology. Very good looking people. Terrible food though.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    About this time last year I stood in the lava field of Laki. The biggest in the world I believe

    I saw the place where the lava met the ocean




    About a quarter of Iceland’s population died. If we get another Laki we are fucked

    I was hoping you were on a flight out there to give us a "from our own correspondent" feed ;-)
    Sadly not. Tho I am going somewhere interesting

    Iceland is so fabulous and they now have a brilliant volcano museum next to Laki. You are left in no doubt of the devastation wrought - and also that this will certainly happen again, some time soon

    Hopefully not now
    Indeed, we have been for a couple of weeks a while back - fascinating place. Amazing scenery and geology. Very good looking people. Terrible food though.
    When were you there? I first went in the 1980s and yes the food was hideous. Now it is much much better. Lots of fantastic fish, delicious lamb. Its really improved

    Alcohol is still insanely pricey however
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,662
    Pulpstar said:

    I note this reappointment comes barely a month after his "Change from previous consensus" speech at conference.
    Now objectively I don't think that was a terrible idea for a speech, but he obviously didn't mean a word of it as the appointment of DC - again in isolation not a terrible move clearly shows
    A PM with no conviction

    75,000 posts @Pulpstar. Nice one!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Stocky said:

    My daughter has insisted I install an APP called 'been'.

    You put in the countries where you have - err - been.

    Apparently I've been to 16% of the world. 33 countries.

    Who can beat that? Leon obvs.

    (We have defined 'been' as staying at least one night (i.e. not just passing through).)

    An acquaintance of mine visited every capital city in Europe. An easy task, you might think.

    Except he wanted to drink a pint of Guinness in each one. Some were easy - say, Dublin or London. Others were more difficult, especially in eastern Europe. One (and annoyingly I cannot remember which) required a little subterfuge.

    As his quest became known, he'd be greeted by people with a pint of Guinness ready for him. The order he visited was random, picked out of a hat.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    Brexit was such a mess because the policy of the government at the time of the referendum was not to leave the EU, and so a government to implement Brexit did not exist at the time of the referendum.

    Brexit was always going to be a mess.

    BoZo assembled a Government explicitly to "get Brexit done" with a huge majority, and the result is a shitshow.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,914
    Reform leader Richard Tice on GB news says Sunak today has showed he doesn't care about the redwall or cutting immigration and some Tory members are coming over to his party
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,624
    Scott_xP said:

    Brexit was such a mess because the policy of the government at the time of the referendum was not to leave the EU, and so a government to implement Brexit did not exist at the time of the referendum.

    Brexit was always going to be a mess.

    BoZo assembled a Government explicitly to "get Brexit done" with a huge majority, and the result is a shitshow.
    One could say that Cameron's renegotiation was always going to be a shitshow, but you campaigned enthusiastically for it.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    edited November 2023
    I'm tempted to think that today's announcements may be rather like many Budgets. Most measures are met with general acclaim on the day itself, but within a few days the whole thing begins to unravel, and acrimony sets in as it begins to dawn on people what it all means. The praise Sunak has received today may not last long.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Stocky said:

    My daughter has insisted I install an APP called 'been'.

    You put in the countries where you have - err - been.

    Apparently I've been to 16% of the world. 33 countries.

    Who can beat that? Leon obvs.

    (We have defined 'been' as staying at least one night (i.e. not just passing through).)

    An acquaintance of mine visited every capital city in Europe. An easy task, you might think.

    Except he wanted to drink a pint of Guinness in each one. Some were easy - say, Dublin or London. Others were more difficult, especially in eastern Europe. One (and annoyingly I cannot remember which) required a little subterfuge.

    As his quest became known, he'd be greeted by people with a pint of Guinness ready for him. The order he visited was random, picked out of a hat.
    I’ve done 91 countries on “been”. My ambition is to hit at least 100 before I keel over. Should do it now with ease (ins’allah)

    The main gaps are central and west Africa, Central Asia and Central America, and lots of lots of islands (esp in the Caribbean and Polynesia)

    Now I’m going to Colombia in March I can knock off
    a few there
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826

    Scott_xP said:



    Were we expecting a School trip today?

    Even the mantlepiece is taller than Sunak.
    What is the average height - 5"9? Yet 5"7 is notably short and no-one says that 5"11 is tall. Hmmm
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,662
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    About this time last year I stood in the lava field of Laki. The biggest in the world I believe

    I saw the place where the lava met the ocean




    About a quarter of Iceland’s population died. If we get another Laki we are fucked

    I was hoping you were on a flight out there to give us a "from our own correspondent" feed ;-)
    Sadly not. Tho I am going somewhere interesting

    Iceland is so fabulous and they now have a brilliant volcano museum next to Laki. You are left in no doubt of the devastation wrought - and also that this will certainly happen again, some time soon

    Hopefully not now
    Indeed, we have been for a couple of weeks a while back - fascinating place. Amazing scenery and geology. Very good looking people. Terrible food though.
    When were you there? I first went in the 1980s and yes the food was hideous. Now it is much much better. Lots of fantastic fish, delicious lamb. Its really improved

    Alcohol is still insanely pricey however
    It was the late 90s tbf. We had some truly memorable (but not in a good way) food. Couldn't manage the fermented shark (wow that stinks) but I remember some lamb and yogurt salad that tasted like vomit, some cured lamb that was a big mistake, a diner en route to Akureyri that only offered chicken legs and those chicken legs had clearly been in their warming cabinet for several days.

    The only things we enjoyed were skyr and smoked salmon really. But yes we must go back, I am sure the food will have improved.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,662

    Scott_xP said:



    Were we expecting a School trip today?

    Even the mantlepiece is taller than Sunak.
    What is the average height - 5"9? Yet 5"7 is notably short and no-one says that 5"11 is tall. Hmmm
    I think the issue is his head and hands are quite large so he looks a little odd - awkward maybe. But you are right of course, he's not particularly short and even so it's not an issue.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    I'm tempted to think that today's announcements may be rather like many Budgets. Most measures are met with general acclaim on the day itself, but within a few days the whole thing begins to unravel, and acrimony sets in as it begins to dawn on people what it all means. The praise Sunak has received today may not last long.

    I agree. I think it’s all going to unravel

    David Duke of Brexit has a dodgy past. It will haunt him. Meanwhile the right wing will want revenge for Sweller B

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,404
    HYUFD said:

    Reform leader Richard Tice on GB news says Sunak today has showed he doesn't care about the redwall or cutting immigration and some Tory members are coming over to his party

    He needs the constituency parties to come over to him. With nothing on the ground the Cons will struggle to drop in the latest Ox PPE sent to them by CCHQ.

    Im constantly amazed the constituency parties dont do more to make their views respected.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,781
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    We need more of these titles to really address our problems - the problem is not the issues, it's the titles. They aren't inspiring. "Deputy Minister for Work and Pensions". YAWN. How about

    The River Pollution Reichskommisar

    The Wheelie Bin Obersturmfuhrer

    The Great Mongol Khan of the Golden Horde of Litter Collection

    The Dalai of AI.
    The Lama of Internet Truth?
    Noooo!

    it has to be the Llama Lama

    https://ai.meta.com/llama/

    Oh God please do it. "Laura Trott, the Llama Lama, said today....."

    OK @kjh has a point, I need fresh air
    They need to appoint a minister for the Blue Wall - the Aga Aga.
    The Aga Khan, surely. And there’s someone perfectly suited, once he hands over the mayoralty to Ed Balls.
    I used to know the personal Sommelier of the Aga Khan. Oddly.
This discussion has been closed.