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How viable are Green targets in 2024? Part Two – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,705
edited November 2023 in General
imageHow viable are Green targets in 2024? Part Two – politicalbetting.com

As discussed in Part One, the Greens have gained impressive local council bases the last couple of years and are targetting three new seats at the 2024 election to try and grow their Parliamentary presence. However, while the Greens are clearly ascendant in their new target seats, albeit not to great heights in North Herefordshire, the same is not true in Brighton Pavilion.

Read the full story here

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    First like Labour in Brighton Pavillion.
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    London Palestine protest: Arrests made as demonstrators march on Trafalgar Square
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-palestine-protest-three-arrests-trafalgar-square-b1118201.html
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,413
    spending years wining as many councillors as they could in the seat

    Magnificent Freudian slip @Quincel!

    I agree with the thrust as well. 0 Greens would be my guess.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,413
    The Beeb's puns are the only ones in the known universe less subtle than TSE's:

    Resc-ewed: Britain's loneliest sheep saved from shoreline

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-67321305
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,817
    Another poll showing Tories in the doldrums and no discernible Starmer Palestine backlash.

    UK (GB), Redfield & Wilton Strategies poll:

    LAB-S&D: 45% (+1)
    CON~ECR: 25% (-1)
    LDEM-RE: 13%
    REFORM~NI: 7% (-1)
    GREENS-G/EFA: 6% (+2)
    SNP-G/EFA: 3% (+1)

    +/- vs. 22 October 2023

    Fieldwork: 29 October 2023
    Sample size: 2,000

    ➤ europeelects.eu/uk

    https://x.com/europeelects/status/1720825546567798915?s=46

    If anything I’d expect Braverman’s Ebenezer Scrooge efforts of yesterday might depress the Tory polling a tiny bit further.
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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,097
    ydoethur said:

    The Beeb's puns are the only ones in the known universe less subtle than TSE's:

    Resc-ewed: Britain's loneliest sheep saved from shoreline

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-67321305

    The shear nerve of it!
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,062
    The Union Flag was taken down from the Cenotaph. Perhaps like the pictures of hostages it's seen as too provocative.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,016
    Bob Stewart surrenders whip while he appeals.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,062
    eek said:

    The Union Flag was taken down from the Cenotaph. Perhaps like the pictures of hostages it's seen as too provocative.

    Only because all the flags are taken away this week every year to be cleaned before next week's ceremonies.

    Mind you that's because I saw the Metropolitan Police tweet rather than the right wing muppet's post that got 400,000 views compare to the Met Police's 10,000 views.
    Are you sure it's true?

    Still sad that it's surrounded by fencing.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,361
    ydoethur said:

    spending years wining as many councillors as they could in the seat

    Magnificent Freudian slip @Quincel!

    I agree with the thrust as well. 0 Greens would be my guess.

    Agreed. But something feels wrong about a country's Green Party lacking any representation in its national Parliament. We'd be an outlier on this as regards Western Europe, I think?
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    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,519
    edited November 2023
    From Part 1: TSE said: "If they were truly pro Green then they would back nuclear power."

    For years I have been saying that, if you are worried about global warming -- and can do arithmetic -- you will favor more nuclear power.

    And, as everyone should know, switching from fossil fuels to nuclear power helps clean the air.

    Michael Shellenberger's little book, "Apocalypse Never", persuaded me that I missed something: He charges that people selling fossil fuels have subsidized anti-nuclear movements, and names some big names.

    (Correct me if I am wrong about this, but I seem to recall reading that Russia had subsidized anti-nuclear groups in Eastern Europe.)
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    TimS said:

    Another poll showing Tories in the doldrums and no discernible Starmer Palestine backlash.

    UK (GB), Redfield & Wilton Strategies poll:

    LAB-S&D: 45% (+1)
    CON~ECR: 25% (-1)
    LDEM-RE: 13%
    REFORM~NI: 7% (-1)
    GREENS-G/EFA: 6% (+2)
    SNP-G/EFA: 3% (+1)

    +/- vs. 22 October 2023

    Fieldwork: 29 October 2023
    Sample size: 2,000

    ➤ europeelects.eu/uk

    https://x.com/europeelects/status/1720825546567798915?s=46

    If anything I’d expect Braverman’s Ebenezer Scrooge efforts of yesterday might depress the Tory polling a tiny bit further.

    Cannot see the Tories polling 25% in a general election, although it would make for a fun evening
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,880
    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    spending years wining as many councillors as they could in the seat

    Magnificent Freudian slip @Quincel!

    I agree with the thrust as well. 0 Greens would be my guess.

    Agreed. But something feels wrong about a country's Green Party lacking any representation in its national Parliament. We'd be an outlier on this as regards Western Europe, I think?
    Probably a good thing, as the UK Greens tend to loon.

    PR would permanently entrench the Greens, and - on the right - a Reform style party.
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,817
    edited November 2023
    And a new one from Deltapoll:

    UK (GB), Deltapoll poll:

    LAB-S&D: 46% (-1)
    CON~ECR: 25% (-2)
    LDEM-RE: 11% (+1)
    REFORM~NI: 7% (+1)
    GREENS-G/EFA: 6% (+1)
    SNP-G/EFA: 2%
    UKIP~ID: 2%
    PC-G/EFA: 0% (-1)

    +/- vs. 19-20 October 2023

    Fieldwork: 27-30 October 2023
    Sample size: 1,546

    ➤ europeelects.eu/uk/

    https://x.com/europeelects/status/1720826813750845493?s=46

    Definitely looks like a Tory downturn this week. COVID enquiry effect I assume.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,880
    I no longer expect the Tories to hit 30% in 2024.
    They may fall below 29%, which was what Brown delivered for Labour in 2010.

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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,413
    It's a good job England bat deep.

    They might just lose by less than 100 runs.
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    dixiedean said:

    Bob Stewart surrenders whip while he appeals.

    Suella on the prowl?
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    eek said:

    The Union Flag was taken down from the Cenotaph. Perhaps like the pictures of hostages it's seen as too provocative.

    Only because all the flags are taken away this week every year to be cleaned before next week's ceremonies.

    Mind you that's because I saw the Metropolitan Police tweet rather than the right wing muppet's post that got 400,000 views compare to the Met Police's 10,000 views.
    Are you sure it's true?

    Still sad that it's surrounded by fencing.
    Yes it is true.

    https://twitter.com/metpoliceuk/status/1720803058412609718

    They generally spend the next week tidying up the place, which includes fencing/scaffolding.

    But you keep pedalling fake news.
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,817

    I no longer expect the Tories to hit 30% in 2024.
    They may fall below 29%, which was what Brown delivered for Labour in 2010.

    I still think they will get above 30. They’re the only viable right wing option for voters. In 2010 the centre-left was split so 29% was more possible.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,413
    FPT

    OT good news. A jobbing BBC presenter and his mates have rescued the sheep.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-67321305

    It does raise a point though on whether we have the risk tolerances at the same point

    I’m sure the SPCA acted in good faith when they said it was too dangerous to organise a rescue. And yet 5 blokes and a bit of old rope hauled her up.
    I could be completely wrong, but if there had been an accident on an SSPCA managed rescue, wouldn't they have been liable under H+S and insurance?

    While these five blokes did it at their own risk (and they admitted it was a risk) and fortunately got away with it.

    Speaking of risk, that was not a high percentage shot Mr Ali.
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    ydoethur said:

    It's a good job England bat deep.

    They might just lose by less than 100 runs.

    To be honest I didn't fancy watching England playing in the Champions Trophy in 2025.

    Tinpot trophy.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,413

    ydoethur said:

    The Beeb's puns are the only ones in the known universe less subtle than TSE's:

    Resc-ewed: Britain's loneliest sheep saved from shoreline

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-67321305

    The shear nerve of it!
    The whole thing was pretty sheer, that was the problem.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,413

    ydoethur said:

    It's a good job England bat deep.

    They might just lose by less than 100 runs.

    To be honest I didn't fancy watching England playing in the Champions Trophy in 2025.

    Tinpot trophy.
    But in all likelihood it will the last ever ODI trophy, and it's a shame England won't be there.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,472
    edited November 2023
    Having seen the pitiful organisational and campaigning skills of the Green Party in my own seat, a key Green target where I went along to help them as part of the deal they did with the LibDems for the last GE, I wouldn’t bet on them doing too well. I’ve never seen such an abject shambles; the Liberal Party back in the 1980s were a more effective campaigning machine.
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    eekeek Posts: 25,028
    edited November 2023

    eek said:

    The Union Flag was taken down from the Cenotaph. Perhaps like the pictures of hostages it's seen as too provocative.

    Only because all the flags are taken away this week every year to be cleaned before next week's ceremonies.

    Mind you that's because I saw the Metropolitan Police tweet rather than the right wing muppet's post that got 400,000 views compare to the Met Police's 10,000 views.
    Are you sure it's true?

    Still sad that it's surrounded by fencing.
    Yes because I'm not an idiot taken in by false news that happens to match my prejudices..
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,602
    edited November 2023
    FPT

    I want to correct a misconception about Mrs Thatcher.

    Section 28 was an abomination but it was an outlier in her career as she was generally pro gay.

    Voted to decriminalise homosexuality as part of Leo Abse's bill

    One of her earliest acts as Prime Minister was to civilise the Scots and Northern Irish by decriminalising homosexuality.

    She appointed lots of gayers (though the less said about Peter Morrison the better)

    Above all else her government saved the lives of so many gay men by tackling the AIDS epidemic. She took on misconceptions and bigotry, the Chief Constable of Greater Manchester publicly said of AIDS/HIV sufferers that they were '"swirling in a human cesspit of their own making".
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    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,841
    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    spending years wining as many councillors as they could in the seat

    Magnificent Freudian slip @Quincel!

    I agree with the thrust as well. 0 Greens would be my guess.

    Agreed. But something feels wrong about a country's Green Party lacking any representation in its national Parliament. We'd be an outlier on this as regards Western Europe, I think?
    We’re an outlier in using FPTP.

    I think you’re right about everywhere else in Western Europe having Green MPs, excluding the microstates. (No Greens in the Monegasque legislature.) The Portuguese Parliament only has one.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,593

    FPT

    I want to correct a misconception about Mrs Thatcher.

    Section 28 was an abomination but it was an outlier in her career as she was generally pro gay.

    Voted to decriminalise homosexuality as part of Leo Abse's bill

    One of her earliest acts as Prime Minister was to civilise the Scots and Northern Irish by decriminalising homosexuality.

    She appointed lots of gayers (though the less said about Peter Morrison the better)

    Above all else her government saved the lives of so many gay men by tackling the AIDS epidemic. She took on misconceptions and bigotry, the Chief Constable publicly said of AIDS/HIV sufferers that they were '"swirling in a human cesspit of their own making".

    Wasn’t the Greater Manchester CC? Fundy Christian of the semi-DIY form IIRC.
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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,097
    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    OT good news. A jobbing BBC presenter and his mates have rescued the sheep.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-67321305

    It does raise a point though on whether we have the risk tolerances at the same point

    I’m sure the SPCA acted in good faith when they said it was too dangerous to organise a rescue. And yet 5 blokes and a bit of old rope hauled her up.
    I could be completely wrong, but if there had been an accident on an SSPCA managed rescue, wouldn't they have been liable under H+S and insurance?

    While these five blokes did it at their own risk (and they admitted it was a risk) and fortunately got away with it.

    Speaking of risk, that was not a high percentage shot Mr Ali.
    Most likely

    Which is why I asked whether risk tolerance in the SSPCA was wrong not that they made the wrong decision
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,062

    eek said:

    The Union Flag was taken down from the Cenotaph. Perhaps like the pictures of hostages it's seen as too provocative.

    Only because all the flags are taken away this week every year to be cleaned before next week's ceremonies.

    Mind you that's because I saw the Metropolitan Police tweet rather than the right wing muppet's post that got 400,000 views compare to the Met Police's 10,000 views.
    Are you sure it's true?

    Still sad that it's surrounded by fencing.
    Yes it is true.

    https://twitter.com/metpoliceuk/status/1720803058412609718

    They generally spend the next week tidying up the place, which includes fencing/scaffolding.

    But you keep pedalling fake news.
    Odd that you of all people would take the Met's word at face value. Some of the comments point out quite rightly that you might think they would have a spare flag lying around somewhere. I'm still somewhat doubtful.
  • Options

    I no longer expect the Tories to hit 30% in 2024.
    They may fall below 29%, which was what Brown delivered for Labour in 2010.

    Another comparison is Major's Conservatives, falling from 42% in 1992 to 31% in 1997.

    What has the class of 2019-24 done to deserve even that degree of electoral success?
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,097

    FPT

    I want to correct a misconception about Mrs Thatcher.

    Section 28 was an abomination but it was an outlier in her career as she was generally pro gay.

    Voted to decriminalise homosexuality as part of Leo Abse's bill

    One of her earliest acts as Prime Minister was to civilise the Scots and Northern Irish by decriminalising homosexuality.

    She appointed lots of gayers (though the less said about Peter Morrison the better)

    Above all else her government saved the lives of so many gay men by tackling the AIDS epidemic. She took on misconceptions and bigotry, the Chief Constable publicly said of AIDS/HIV sufferers that they were '"swirling in a human cesspit of their own making".

    Norman (and especially Fiona) Fowler deserves a huge amount of credit for the tombstone campaign.

    The civil service advised him he was being “courageous”

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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,602
    edited November 2023

    FPT

    I want to correct a misconception about Mrs Thatcher.

    Section 28 was an abomination but it was an outlier in her career as she was generally pro gay.

    Voted to decriminalise homosexuality as part of Leo Abse's bill

    One of her earliest acts as Prime Minister was to civilise the Scots and Northern Irish by decriminalising homosexuality.

    She appointed lots of gayers (though the less said about Peter Morrison the better)

    Above all else her government saved the lives of so many gay men by tackling the AIDS epidemic. She took on misconceptions and bigotry, the Chief Constable publicly said of AIDS/HIV sufferers that they were '"swirling in a human cesspit of their own making".

    Wasn’t the Greater Manchester CC? Fundy Christian of the semi-DIY form IIRC.
    Yup, James Anderton.

    He was a Methodist lay preacher, who was obsessed with gays and also good friends with Cyril Smith.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,062
    eek said:

    eek said:

    The Union Flag was taken down from the Cenotaph. Perhaps like the pictures of hostages it's seen as too provocative.

    Only because all the flags are taken away this week every year to be cleaned before next week's ceremonies.

    Mind you that's because I saw the Metropolitan Police tweet rather than the right wing muppet's post that got 400,000 views compare to the Met Police's 10,000 views.
    Are you sure it's true?

    Still sad that it's surrounded by fencing.
    Yes because I'm not an idiot taken in by false news that happens to match my prejudices..
    Is it prejudiced to think public monuments might be defaced? Or just common sense since it happens quite often.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,413
    edited November 2023

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    OT good news. A jobbing BBC presenter and his mates have rescued the sheep.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-67321305

    It does raise a point though on whether we have the risk tolerances at the same point

    I’m sure the SPCA acted in good faith when they said it was too dangerous to organise a rescue. And yet 5 blokes and a bit of old rope hauled her up.
    I could be completely wrong, but if there had been an accident on an SSPCA managed rescue, wouldn't they have been liable under H+S and insurance?

    While these five blokes did it at their own risk (and they admitted it was a risk) and fortunately got away with it.

    Speaking of risk, that was not a high percentage shot Mr Ali.
    Most likely

    Which is why I asked whether risk tolerance in the SSPCA was wrong not that they made the wrong decision
    Well, Jesus might agree with you :smile:

    But personally, I wouldn't have risked the lives of three men to save one sheep.

    The three men felt differently. Well, their lives, their risk to take. But I am not convinced it was the smartest option. One slip and we'd be talking about how stupid they looked.
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    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,841

    eek said:

    The Union Flag was taken down from the Cenotaph. Perhaps like the pictures of hostages it's seen as too provocative.

    Only because all the flags are taken away this week every year to be cleaned before next week's ceremonies.

    Mind you that's because I saw the Metropolitan Police tweet rather than the right wing muppet's post that got 400,000 views compare to the Met Police's 10,000 views.
    Are you sure it's true?

    Still sad that it's surrounded by fencing.
    Yes it is true.

    https://twitter.com/metpoliceuk/status/1720803058412609718

    They generally spend the next week tidying up the place, which includes fencing/scaffolding.

    But you keep pedalling fake news.
    Odd that you of all people would take the Met's word at face value. Some of the comments point out quite rightly that you might think they would have a spare flag lying around somewhere. I'm still somewhat doubtful.
    @Sandpit , you were saying how observable facts kills off misinformation. Explain this!
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,593
    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    OT good news. A jobbing BBC presenter and his mates have rescued the sheep.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-67321305

    It does raise a point though on whether we have the risk tolerances at the same point

    I’m sure the SPCA acted in good faith when they said it was too dangerous to organise a rescue. And yet 5 blokes and a bit of old rope hauled her up.
    I could be completely wrong, but if there had been an accident on an SSPCA managed rescue, wouldn't they have been liable under H+S and insurance?

    While these five blokes did it at their own risk (and they admitted it was a risk) and fortunately got away with it.

    Speaking of risk, that was not a high percentage shot Mr Ali.
    The way they did it in the end - powered winch down and up with harness, hard hats and radios was pretty safe. As long as you remember how dangerous it is….
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,602
    edited November 2023

    eek said:

    The Union Flag was taken down from the Cenotaph. Perhaps like the pictures of hostages it's seen as too provocative.

    Only because all the flags are taken away this week every year to be cleaned before next week's ceremonies.

    Mind you that's because I saw the Metropolitan Police tweet rather than the right wing muppet's post that got 400,000 views compare to the Met Police's 10,000 views.
    Are you sure it's true?

    Still sad that it's surrounded by fencing.
    Yes it is true.

    https://twitter.com/metpoliceuk/status/1720803058412609718

    They generally spend the next week tidying up the place, which includes fencing/scaffolding.

    But you keep pedalling fake news.
    Odd that you of all people would take the Met's word at face value. Some of the comments point out quite rightly that you might think they would have a spare flag lying around somewhere. I'm still somewhat doubtful.
    My friend works near the Cenotaph and has done so for nearly 20 years.

    She tells me of the effort they put in to make the place look awesome in the week before Remembrance Sunday.

    They take down the flags and other things placed at the Cenotaph, hose it down, and put up new clean flags.

    You are engaging in HYUFD levels on not wanting to admit you are wrong.

    Otherwise you'll look as reactionary as Lozza Fox.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,168

    I no longer expect the Tories to hit 30% in 2024.
    They may fall below 29%, which was what Brown delivered for Labour in 2010.

    Another comparison is Major's Conservatives, falling from 42% in 1992 to 31% in 1997.

    What has the class of 2019-24 done to deserve even that degree of electoral success?
    ReformUK are polling 5-9% on latest polls, in 1997 the Referendum Party and UKIP combined only got 3%, so Sunak's Tories may well fall below the 30% Major's Tories got in 1997
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    There’s only really two problems with England’s batting in this tournament - not enough runs, and too many wickets.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,097
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    OT good news. A jobbing BBC presenter and his mates have rescued the sheep.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-67321305

    It does raise a point though on whether we have the risk tolerances at the same point

    I’m sure the SPCA acted in good faith when they said it was too dangerous to organise a rescue. And yet 5 blokes and a bit of old rope hauled her up.
    I could be completely wrong, but if there had been an accident on an SSPCA managed rescue, wouldn't they have been liable under H+S and insurance?

    While these five blokes did it at their own risk (and they admitted it was a risk) and fortunately got away with it.

    Speaking of risk, that was not a high percentage shot Mr Ali.
    Most likely

    Which is why I asked whether risk tolerance in the SSPCA was wrong not that they made the wrong decision
    Well, Jesus might agree with you :smile:

    But personally, I wouldn't have risked the lives of three men to save one sheep.

    The three men felt differently. Well, their lives, their risk to take. But I am not convinced it was the smartest option. One slip and we'd be talking about how stupid they looked.
    It’s a more general point

    Too often institutions hide behind health & safety or insurance

    We have a zero-risk approach on too many occasions
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,589

    FPT

    I want to correct a misconception about Mrs Thatcher.

    Section 28 was an abomination but it was an outlier in her career as she was generally pro gay.

    Voted to decriminalise homosexuality as part of Leo Abse's bill

    One of her earliest acts as Prime Minister was to civilise the Scots and Northern Irish by decriminalising homosexuality.

    She appointed lots of gayers (though the less said about Peter Morrison the better)

    Above all else her government saved the lives of so many gay men by tackling the AIDS epidemic. She took on misconceptions and bigotry, the Chief Constable of Greater Manchester publicly said of AIDS/HIV sufferers that they were '"swirling in a human cesspit of their own making".

    Not according to Norman Fowler, the relevant SoS for Health. In a recent radio interview, he was highly critical of Thatcher's views on AIDS and said that the epidemic was tackled effectively despite, rather than because of, Thatcher's views.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,062

    eek said:

    The Union Flag was taken down from the Cenotaph. Perhaps like the pictures of hostages it's seen as too provocative.

    Only because all the flags are taken away this week every year to be cleaned before next week's ceremonies.

    Mind you that's because I saw the Metropolitan Police tweet rather than the right wing muppet's post that got 400,000 views compare to the Met Police's 10,000 views.
    Are you sure it's true?

    Still sad that it's surrounded by fencing.
    Yes it is true.

    https://twitter.com/metpoliceuk/status/1720803058412609718

    They generally spend the next week tidying up the place, which includes fencing/scaffolding.

    But you keep pedalling fake news.
    Odd that you of all people would take the Met's word at face value. Some of the comments point out quite rightly that you might think they would have a spare flag lying around somewhere. I'm still somewhat doubtful.
    My friend works near the Cenotaph and has done so for nearly 20 years.

    She tells me of the effort they put in to make the place look awesome in the week before Remembrance Sunday.

    They take down the flags and other things placed at the Cenotaph, hose it down, and put up new clean flags.

    You are engaging in HYUFD levels on not wanting to admit you are wrong.
    Well maybe. But why would admit I was wrong over a single source - that being the Metropolitan Police, hardly known as a fountain of truth.
  • Options

    FPT

    I want to correct a misconception about Mrs Thatcher.

    Section 28 was an abomination but it was an outlier in her career as she was generally pro gay.

    Voted to decriminalise homosexuality as part of Leo Abse's bill

    One of her earliest acts as Prime Minister was to civilise the Scots and Northern Irish by decriminalising homosexuality.

    She appointed lots of gayers (though the less said about Peter Morrison the better)

    Above all else her government saved the lives of so many gay men by tackling the AIDS epidemic. She took on misconceptions and bigotry, the Chief Constable publicly said of AIDS/HIV sufferers that they were '"swirling in a human cesspit of their own making".

    Norman (and especially Fiona) Fowler deserves a huge amount of credit for the tombstone campaign.

    The civil service advised him he was being “courageous”

    I said the other day I consider Norman Fowler (and many others) secular saints for their work and efforts.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,413
    Willey flops.

    That's all, Woakes.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,168

    I no longer expect the Tories to hit 30% in 2024.
    They may fall below 29%, which was what Brown delivered for Labour in 2010.

    Brown's Labour also lost votes to his left to the LDs (before the Coalition and the left decided Clegg was really a Tory).

    Sunak really does now look like Brown 2, a highly intelligent former chancellor who desired the PM job desperately but only got it at the end of his party's time in power and led it to heavy defeat at a time of economic difficulty against a Leader of the Opposition who has moved his party to the centre. The 2008 crash then, cost of living now
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,602
    edited November 2023

    FPT

    I want to correct a misconception about Mrs Thatcher.

    Section 28 was an abomination but it was an outlier in her career as she was generally pro gay.

    Voted to decriminalise homosexuality as part of Leo Abse's bill

    One of her earliest acts as Prime Minister was to civilise the Scots and Northern Irish by decriminalising homosexuality.

    She appointed lots of gayers (though the less said about Peter Morrison the better)

    Above all else her government saved the lives of so many gay men by tackling the AIDS epidemic. She took on misconceptions and bigotry, the Chief Constable of Greater Manchester publicly said of AIDS/HIV sufferers that they were '"swirling in a human cesspit of their own making".

    Not according to Norman Fowler, the relevant SoS for Health. In a recent radio interview, he was highly critical of Thatcher's views on AIDS and said that the epidemic was tackled effectively despite, rather than because of, Thatcher's views.
    He said at a talk a few years ago that Thatcher wanted the campaign to be a moral campaign (ie don't have sex) which he considered eccentric but when she saw the stats she allowed the cabinet overrule her.

    She ensured sufficient resources were made available because she understood the dangers of exponential growth.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,097

    FPT

    I want to correct a misconception about Mrs Thatcher.

    Section 28 was an abomination but it was an outlier in her career as she was generally pro gay.

    Voted to decriminalise homosexuality as part of Leo Abse's bill

    One of her earliest acts as Prime Minister was to civilise the Scots and Northern Irish by decriminalising homosexuality.

    She appointed lots of gayers (though the less said about Peter Morrison the better)

    Above all else her government saved the lives of so many gay men by tackling the AIDS epidemic. She took on misconceptions and bigotry, the Chief Constable publicly said of AIDS/HIV sufferers that they were '"swirling in a human cesspit of their own making".

    Norman (and especially Fiona) Fowler deserves a huge amount of credit for the tombstone campaign.

    The civil service advised him he was being “courageous”

    I said the other day I consider Norman Fowler (and many others) secular saints for
    their work and efforts.
    He was havering over the decision because of the political risk. Fiona made quite clear to him that “consequences be damned” he should do the right thing.
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    ydoethur said:

    Willey flops.

    That's all, Woakes.

    Don't forget we have the Test Series in India to look forward to. No one cares about ODI or T20 now. Or the Hundred. No one ever cared about the Hundred 👍
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,413
    This has been the most embarrassingly inept performance by an England side since the Battle of Castillon.
  • Options
    speaking of things Green, interesting findings from the 2023 Arkansas Poll, an annual survey of public opinion.

    Question - Do you think global warming, or climate change, will pose a serious threat to you or your way of life in your lifetime?

    2015 - Yes 25% No 65% DK/Ref 10%
    2017 - Yes 30% No 61% DK/Ref 10%
    2019 - Yes 31% No 64% DK/Ref 6%
    2021 - Yes 39% No 55% DK/Ref 6%
    2023 - Yes 41% No 55% DK/Ref 2%

    https://fulbright.uark.edu/departments/political-science/partners/arkpoll/2023Arkpoll_SummaryReport.pdf

    Arkansas popular vote for President (* = incumbent)

    2012 Romney Rep 60.6% Obama* Dem 36.9% Johnson Lib 1.5%
    2016 Trump Rep 60.6% Clinton Dem 33.7% Johnson Lib 2.6%
    2020 Trump* Rep 62.4% Biden Dem 34.8% Jorgensen Lib 1.9%

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_elections_in_Arkansas
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    eek said:

    The Union Flag was taken down from the Cenotaph. Perhaps like the pictures of hostages it's seen as too provocative.

    Only because all the flags are taken away this week every year to be cleaned before next week's ceremonies.

    Mind you that's because I saw the Metropolitan Police tweet rather than the right wing muppet's post that got 400,000 views compare to the Met Police's 10,000 views.
    Are you sure it's true?

    Still sad that it's surrounded by fencing.
    Yes it is true.

    https://twitter.com/metpoliceuk/status/1720803058412609718

    They generally spend the next week tidying up the place, which includes fencing/scaffolding.

    But you keep pedalling fake news.
    Odd that you of all people would take the Met's word at face value. Some of the comments point out quite rightly that you might think they would have a spare flag lying around somewhere. I'm still somewhat doubtful.
    My friend works near the Cenotaph and has done so for nearly 20 years.

    She tells me of the effort they put in to make the place look awesome in the week before Remembrance Sunday.

    They take down the flags and other things placed at the Cenotaph, hose it down, and put up new clean flags.

    You are engaging in HYUFD levels on not wanting to admit you are wrong.
    Well maybe. But why would admit I was wrong over a single source - that being the Metropolitan Police, hardly known as a fountain of truth.
    So you want to be as ignorant as Charlie Gilmour when it comes to the Cenotaph.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,941

    FPT

    I want to correct a misconception about Mrs Thatcher.

    Section 28 was an abomination but it was an outlier in her career as she was generally pro gay.

    Voted to decriminalise homosexuality as part of Leo Abse's bill

    One of her earliest acts as Prime Minister was to civilise the Scots and Northern Irish by decriminalising homosexuality.

    She appointed lots of gayers (though the less said about Peter Morrison the better)

    Above all else her government saved the lives of so many gay men by tackling the AIDS epidemic. She took on misconceptions and bigotry, the Chief Constable publicly said of AIDS/HIV sufferers that they were '"swirling in a human cesspit of their own making".

    Norman (and especially Fiona) Fowler deserves a huge amount of credit for the tombstone campaign.

    The civil service advised him he was being “courageous”

    I said the other day I consider Norman Fowler (and many others) secular saints for
    their work and efforts.
    He was havering over the decision because of the political risk. Fiona made quite clear to him that “consequences be damned” he should do the right thing.
    Er, you mean wavering? Havering = talking bollocks. Not correct, as he got the right result as TSE says.
  • Options
    MJWMJW Posts: 1,383
    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    spending years wining as many councillors as they could in the seat

    Magnificent Freudian slip @Quincel!

    I agree with the thrust as well. 0 Greens would be my guess.

    Agreed. But something feels wrong about a country's Green Party lacking any representation in its national Parliament. We'd be an outlier on this as regards Western Europe, I think?
    Our Green Parties are far less serious outfits than their European counterparts though. Partly due to FPTP meaning they have little incentive to moderate their sillier stuff. Partly because they're in a weird tradition of quite conservative but hippyish radicalism that basically wants the big old nasty world to go away so can make lovespoons out of hemp.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,008
    Inflexible batting from England. Playing as if you need to hit sixes to win a match when it isn't necessary.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,941

    FPT

    I want to correct a misconception about Mrs Thatcher.

    Section 28 was an abomination but it was an outlier in her career as she was generally pro gay.

    Voted to decriminalise homosexuality as part of Leo Abse's bill

    One of her earliest acts as Prime Minister was to civilise the Scots and Northern Irish by decriminalising homosexuality.

    She appointed lots of gayers (though the less said about Peter Morrison the better)

    Above all else her government saved the lives of so many gay men by tackling the AIDS epidemic. She took on misconceptions and bigotry, the Chief Constable of Greater Manchester publicly said of AIDS/HIV sufferers that they were '"swirling in a human cesspit of their own making".

    Not according to Norman Fowler, the relevant SoS for Health. In a recent radio interview, he was highly critical of Thatcher's views on AIDS and said that the epidemic was tackled effectively despite, rather than because of, Thatcher's views.
    He said at a talk a few years ago that Thatcher wanted the campaign to be a moral campaign (ie don't have sex) which he considered eccentric but when she saw the stats she allowed the cabinet overrule her.

    She ensured sufficient resources were made available because she understood the dangers of exponential growth.
    That's chemistry at Oxford for you.
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    ydoethur said:

    This has been the most embarrassingly inept performance by an England side since the Battle of Castillon.

    Haven't been following this world cup then.
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    ydoethur said:

    This has been the most embarrassingly inept performance by an England side since the Battle of Castillon.

    I'd say this is the worst performance by a side from Britain in India since the Jallianwala Bagh massacre.
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,589

    FPT

    I want to correct a misconception about Mrs Thatcher.

    Section 28 was an abomination but it was an outlier in her career as she was generally pro gay.

    Voted to decriminalise homosexuality as part of Leo Abse's bill

    One of her earliest acts as Prime Minister was to civilise the Scots and Northern Irish by decriminalising homosexuality.

    She appointed lots of gayers (though the less said about Peter Morrison the better)

    Above all else her government saved the lives of so many gay men by tackling the AIDS epidemic. She took on misconceptions and bigotry, the Chief Constable of Greater Manchester publicly said of AIDS/HIV sufferers that they were '"swirling in a human cesspit of their own making".

    Not according to Norman Fowler, the relevant SoS for Health. In a recent radio interview, he was highly critical of Thatcher's views on AIDS and said that the epidemic was tackled effectively despite, rather than because of, Thatcher's views.
    He said at a talk a few years ago that Thatcher wanted the campaign to be a moral campaign (ie don't have sex) which he considered eccentric but when she saw the stats she allowed the cabinet overrule her.

    She ensured sufficient resources were made available because she understood the dangers of exponential growth.
    Agree with that, except that in the brackets you missed out the word 'gay'. She thought gay men should abstain from sex, not good old 'normals'.
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    I want to correct a misconception about Mrs Thatcher.

    Section 28 was an abomination but it was an outlier in her career as she was generally pro gay.

    Voted to decriminalise homosexuality as part of Leo Abse's bill

    One of her earliest acts as Prime Minister was to civilise the Scots and Northern Irish by decriminalising homosexuality.

    She appointed lots of gayers (though the less said about Peter Morrison the better)

    Above all else her government saved the lives of so many gay men by tackling the AIDS epidemic. She took on misconceptions and bigotry, the Chief Constable of Greater Manchester publicly said of AIDS/HIV sufferers that they were '"swirling in a human cesspit of their own making".

    Not according to Norman Fowler, the relevant SoS for Health. In a recent radio interview, he was highly critical of Thatcher's views on AIDS and said that the epidemic was tackled effectively despite, rather than because of, Thatcher's views.
    He said at a talk a few years ago that Thatcher wanted the campaign to be a moral campaign (ie don't have sex) which he considered eccentric but when she saw the stats she allowed the cabinet overrule her.

    She ensured sufficient resources were made available because she understood the dangers of exponential growth.
    That's chemistry at Oxford for you.
    I like to think it was down to her legal profession.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,413

    ydoethur said:

    This has been the most embarrassingly inept performance by an England side since the Battle of Castillon.

    Haven't been following this world cup then.
    I meant the World Cup as a whole.

    In fact, the really embarrassing thing is this is their second best performance.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,413

    ydoethur said:

    This has been the most embarrassingly inept performance by an England side since the Battle of Castillon.

    I'd say this is the worst performance by a side from Britain in India since the Jallianwala Bagh massacre.
    That was carried out by Gurkhas, admittedly under the command of a small group of British officers.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,941

    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    I want to correct a misconception about Mrs Thatcher.

    Section 28 was an abomination but it was an outlier in her career as she was generally pro gay.

    Voted to decriminalise homosexuality as part of Leo Abse's bill

    One of her earliest acts as Prime Minister was to civilise the Scots and Northern Irish by decriminalising homosexuality.

    She appointed lots of gayers (though the less said about Peter Morrison the better)

    Above all else her government saved the lives of so many gay men by tackling the AIDS epidemic. She took on misconceptions and bigotry, the Chief Constable of Greater Manchester publicly said of AIDS/HIV sufferers that they were '"swirling in a human cesspit of their own making".

    Not according to Norman Fowler, the relevant SoS for Health. In a recent radio interview, he was highly critical of Thatcher's views on AIDS and said that the epidemic was tackled effectively despite, rather than because of, Thatcher's views.
    He said at a talk a few years ago that Thatcher wanted the campaign to be a moral campaign (ie don't have sex) which he considered eccentric but when she saw the stats she allowed the cabinet overrule her.

    She ensured sufficient resources were made available because she understood the dangers of exponential growth.
    That's chemistry at Oxford for you.
    I like to think it was down to her legal profession.
    It sure wasn't classics she was reading. But where in the legal profession does a lawyer have to learn the exponential function? Compound interest at usurious levels would do it, I suppose.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,008
    TimS said:

    And a new one from Deltapoll:

    UK (GB), Deltapoll poll:

    LAB-S&D: 46% (-1)
    CON~ECR: 25% (-2)
    LDEM-RE: 11% (+1)
    REFORM~NI: 7% (+1)
    GREENS-G/EFA: 6% (+1)
    SNP-G/EFA: 2%
    UKIP~ID: 2%
    PC-G/EFA: 0% (-1)

    +/- vs. 19-20 October 2023

    Fieldwork: 27-30 October 2023
    Sample size: 1,546

    ➤ europeelects.eu/uk/

    https://x.com/europeelects/status/1720826813750845493?s=46

    Definitely looks like a Tory downturn this week. COVID enquiry effect I assume.

    UKIP on 2% is an example of why polls are not always reliable. They won't put up anything like enough candidates to get 2% nationally.
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    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    This has been the most embarrassingly inept performance by an England side since the Battle of Castillon.

    I'd say this is the worst performance by a side from Britain in India since the Jallianwala Bagh massacre.
    That was carried out by Gurkhas, admittedly under the command of a small group of British officers.
    If you think I am rude about Max Verstappen don't get me started on Reginald Dyer.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,168
    ydoethur said:

    This has been the most embarrassingly inept performance by an England side since the Battle of Castillon.

    This match has been a bit better than some England performances this tournament, it was the tournament as a whole that was a disaster. The 100 replacing ODI matches a big factor in limiting match practice
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,413
    edited November 2023

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    This has been the most embarrassingly inept performance by an England side since the Battle of Castillon.

    I'd say this is the worst performance by a side from Britain in India since the Jallianwala Bagh massacre.
    That was carried out by Gurkhas, admittedly under the command of a small group of British officers.
    If you think I am rude about Max Verstappen don't get me started on Reginald Dyer.
    But the 'side,' as a whole, was mostly Nepalese.

    Maybe go for the 1842 retreat from Kabul? Although 75% of that was Indian too.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,437
    edited November 2023
    Gee. How is Adam Zampa bowling 10 overs for only 21 runs? That is lamentable. I lament it.

    His FC economy rate is 3.9
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    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    This has been the most embarrassingly inept performance by an England side since the Battle of Castillon.

    Haven't been following this world cup then.
    I meant the World Cup as a whole.

    In fact, the really embarrassing thing is this is their second best performance.
    Fair enough. Compared to what preceded it, this match has been quite good.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,008
    Sandpit said:

    There’s only really two problems with England’s batting in this tournament - not enough runs, and too many wickets.

    Arguably the England bowling performance has been just about good enough to win matches had the batting effort been up to scratch.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,413

    Gee. How is Adam Zampa bowling 10 overs for only 21 runs? That is lamentable. I lament it.

    His FC economy rate is 3.9

    1) He bowled well

    2) England's batting is shit.
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    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    This has been the most embarrassingly inept performance by an England side since the Battle of Castillon.

    This match has been a bit better than some England performances this tournament, it was the tournament as a whole that was a disaster. The 100 replacing ODI matches a big factor in limiting match practice
    If ECB get rid of the Hundred as a result of this fiasco then that's a little silver lining. Why play a format that no one else plays??
  • Options
    That should be a free hit, England have been robbed.
  • Options
    Andy_JS said:

    Sandpit said:

    There’s only really two problems with England’s batting in this tournament - not enough runs, and too many wickets.

    Arguably the England bowling performance has been just about good enough to win matches had the batting effort been up to scratch.
    That's what been so puzzling. If the batting had just resorted to a cruise-control, 1980s-style approach they'd have probably made a better fist of it.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,068

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    This has been the most embarrassingly inept performance by an England side since the Battle of Castillon.

    This match has been a bit better than some England performances this tournament, it was the tournament as a whole that was a disaster. The 100 replacing ODI matches a big factor in limiting match practice
    If ECB get rid of the Hundred as a result of this fiasco then that's a little silver lining. Why play a format that no one else plays??
    Apparently it brings in a lot of money.
    Why I have no idea.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,413

    That should be a free hit, England have been robbed.

    They mugged themselves. Lots of silly shots.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,413

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    This has been the most embarrassingly inept performance by an England side since the Battle of Castillon.

    This match has been a bit better than some England performances this tournament, it was the tournament as a whole that was a disaster. The 100 replacing ODI matches a big factor in limiting match practice
    If ECB get rid of the Hundred as a result of this fiasco then that's a little silver lining. Why play a format that no one else plays??
    Apparently it brings in a lot of money.
    Why I have no idea.
    It makes a thumping loss:

    https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/the-hundred-loss-ecb-finances-county-cricket-central-contracts-yorkshire/?zephr_sso_ott=f7orxu
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,008
    edited November 2023
    The disappointing thing about England's performances is how they didn't leant anything as the competition progressed. They kept making the same mistakes in each match.
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,589
    On topic, as a Brighton resident I wholly endorse the content of the header. Lucas had built up a huge personal following in parts of the constituency, particularly Muesli Mountain (Hanover). Her successor won't retain it.

    It's also worth mentioning, I hope objectively, that there's been a distinct improvement in visible council services in the six months since Labour supplanted the Greens: the streets are cleaner, rubbish collections are more reliable, and weeds have been removed. Labour could well take Brighton Pavilion at the GE, especially when one looks at how the other two Brighton seats have swung from being Tory at one time to huge Labour majorities now.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,005

    FPT

    I want to correct a misconception about Mrs Thatcher.

    Section 28 was an abomination but it was an outlier in her career as she was generally pro gay.

    Voted to decriminalise homosexuality as part of Leo Abse's bill

    One of her earliest acts as Prime Minister was to civilise the Scots and Northern Irish by decriminalising homosexuality.

    She appointed lots of gayers (though the less said about Peter Morrison the better).

    How many times do I have to correct this? How many times do I have to hit this shibboleth around the head before it has the decency to stay dead? She was rabidly homophobic. The person who brought in Section 28 should not be thought of as homophile or even in the same postcode. Her attitude was the same of all the elites, who thought it was OK for their tribe but not for the working class and the common people. I don't care if she recruited ACT-UP to the Defence portfolio or the London chapter of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence to do formation flying over the White Cliffs. She was awful, awful, awful.

    Some decent Conservatives, only about tens of them but it was enough, stood up when it counted and not when it was fashionable. Edwina Currie, David Mellor, Norman Fowler. It could have killed their careers and they did it anyway (not like bloody Matthew Parris who only came out when it was safe. Even David Starkey didn't do that). Their memories should not be besmirched by saying they did it because Thatcher. They did it despite her.

    "...children who need to be able to express themselves in clear English have been taught political slogans. Children who need to be taught to respect traditional moral values are being taught that they have an inalienable right to be gay..." - Margaret Thatcher, Conservative Party Conference, 1987

    I swear to God above, PB has the memory of a mayfly.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,068
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    This has been the most embarrassingly inept performance by an England side since the Battle of Castillon.

    This match has been a bit better than some England performances this tournament, it was the tournament as a whole that was a disaster. The 100 replacing ODI matches a big factor in limiting match practice
    If ECB get rid of the Hundred as a result of this fiasco then that's a little silver lining. Why play a format that no one else plays??
    Apparently it brings in a lot of money.
    Why I have no idea.
    It makes a thumping loss:

    https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/the-hundred-loss-ecb-finances-county-cricket-central-contracts-yorkshire/?zephr_sso_ott=f7orxu
    Interesting; why go on with it then? Contracts with sponsors?

    I think it’s rather offensive in concept; as someone who was an Essex member until ill-health forced me to give up I feel absolutely no loyalty to some scratch team in North London.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,555
    File under "that's awful, oh well"

    The IDF are sending XL Bully type mega-dogs down the Hamas tunnels to eat the terrorists. Some have cameras attached
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    This has been the most embarrassingly inept performance by an England side since the Battle of Castillon.

    This match has been a bit better than some England performances this tournament, it was the tournament as a whole that was a disaster. The 100 replacing ODI matches a big factor in limiting match practice
    If ECB get rid of the Hundred as a result of this fiasco then that's a little silver lining. Why play a format that no one else plays??
    Apparently it brings in a lot of money.
    Why I have no idea.
    It makes a thumping loss:

    https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/the-hundred-loss-ecb-finances-county-cricket-central-contracts-yorkshire/?zephr_sso_ott=f7orxu
    Just scanned the article, does not appear to include potentially favorable impacts for local businesses selling stuff to cricket fans? Is that at all significant?

    BTW, I note the stereotypical British love of "eyewatering" in connection with large sums of money.

    Known in USA but FAR less frequently heard, or seen in print/texts/whathaveyou.

    Have the eyes of any PB ever actually, literally watered/teared up, upon seeing a gigantic billing demand, or whatever?

    Realize there MAY be some crying, sobbing, wailing in the aftermath of such a sighting! But upon first sight?
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,589

    That should be a free hit, England have been robbed.

    Yes, somebody seems to have stolen the middle of their bats.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,413

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    This has been the most embarrassingly inept performance by an England side since the Battle of Castillon.

    This match has been a bit better than some England performances this tournament, it was the tournament as a whole that was a disaster. The 100 replacing ODI matches a big factor in limiting match practice
    If ECB get rid of the Hundred as a result of this fiasco then that's a little silver lining. Why play a format that no one else plays??
    Apparently it brings in a lot of money.
    Why I have no idea.
    It makes a thumping loss:

    https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/the-hundred-loss-ecb-finances-county-cricket-central-contracts-yorkshire/?zephr_sso_ott=f7orxu
    Interesting; why go on with it then? Contracts with sponsors?

    I think it’s rather offensive in concept; as someone who was an Essex member until ill-health forced me to give up I feel absolutely no loyalty to some scratch team in North London.
    Mostly because of contracts with broadcasters.

    But - the county boards are somewhat reluctant to give up the £1.3 million bribe, er, subsidy they get as a result.

    (Which, by the way, is not included in that £9 million loss.)
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,413
    Leon said:

    File under "that's awful, oh well"

    The IDF are sending XL Bully type mega-dogs down the Hamas tunnels to eat the terrorists. Some have cameras attached

    What if they eat the hostages too?
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,589
    Andy_JS said:

    The disappointing thing about England's performances is how they didn't leant anything as the competition progressed. They kept making the same mistakes in each match.

    It's a metaphor for the current government, obviously.
  • Options
    ..
    viewcode said:

    FPT

    I want to correct a misconception about Mrs Thatcher.

    Section 28 was an abomination but it was an outlier in her career as she was generally pro gay.

    Voted to decriminalise homosexuality as part of Leo Abse's bill

    One of her earliest acts as Prime Minister was to civilise the Scots and Northern Irish by decriminalising homosexuality.

    She appointed lots of gayers (though the less said about Peter Morrison the better).

    How many times do I have to correct this? How many times do I have to hit this shibboleth around the head before it has the decency to stay dead? She was rabidly homophobic. The person who brought in Section 28 should not be thought of as homophile or even in the same postcode. Her attitude was the same of all the elites, who thought it was OK for their tribe but not for the working class and the common people. I don't care if she recruited ACT-UP to the Defence portfolio or the London chapter of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence to do formation flying over the White Cliffs. She was awful, awful, awful.

    Some decent Conservatives, only about tens of them but it was enough, stood up when it counted and not when it was fashionable. Edwina Currie, David Mellor, Norman Fowler. It could have killed their careers and they did it anyway (not like bloody Matthew Parris who only came out when it was safe. Even David Starkey didn't do that). Their memories should not be besmirched by saying they did it because Thatcher. They did it despite her.

    "...children who need to be able to express themselves in clear English have been taught political slogans. Children who need to be taught to respect traditional moral values are being taught that they have an inalienable right to be gay..." - Margaret Thatcher, Conservative Party Conference, 1987

    I swear to God above, PB has the memory of a mayfly.
    Unfortunate that Thatch was burnt rather buried. Now that children do have an inalienable right to be gay, there would have been a decent amount of power generation potential from a grave.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,097
    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    I want to correct a misconception about Mrs Thatcher.

    Section 28 was an abomination but it was an outlier in her career as she was generally pro gay.

    Voted to decriminalise homosexuality as part of Leo Abse's bill

    One of her earliest acts as Prime Minister was to civilise the Scots and Northern Irish by decriminalising homosexuality.

    She appointed lots of gayers (though the less said about Peter Morrison the better)

    Above all else her government saved the lives of so many gay men by tackling the AIDS epidemic. She took on misconceptions and bigotry, the Chief Constable publicly said of AIDS/HIV sufferers that they were '"swirling in a human cesspit of their own making".

    Norman (and especially Fiona) Fowler deserves a huge amount of credit for the tombstone campaign.

    The civil service advised him he was being “courageous”

    I said the other day I consider Norman Fowler (and many others) secular saints for
    their work and efforts.
    He was havering over the decision because of the political risk. Fiona made quite clear to him that “consequences be damned” he should do the right thing.
    Er, you mean wavering? Havering = talking bollocks. Not correct, as he got the right
    result as TSE says.
    Your meaning is the Scottish one

    The British meaning is “to act in a vacillating or indecisive manner”

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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,016
    Leon said:

    File under "that's awful, oh well"

    The IDF are sending XL Bully type mega-dogs down the Hamas tunnels to eat the terrorists. Some have cameras attached

    Do they have guns?
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,983
    viewcode said:

    FPT

    I want to correct a misconception about Mrs Thatcher.

    Section 28 was an abomination but it was an outlier in her career as she was generally pro gay.

    Voted to decriminalise homosexuality as part of Leo Abse's bill

    One of her earliest acts as Prime Minister was to civilise the Scots and Northern Irish by decriminalising homosexuality.

    She appointed lots of gayers (though the less said about Peter Morrison the better).

    How many times do I have to correct this? How many times do I have to hit this shibboleth around the head before it has the decency to stay dead? She was rabidly homophobic. The person who brought in Section 28 should not be thought of as homophile or even in the same postcode. Her attitude was the same of all the elites, who thought it was OK for their tribe but not for the working class and the common people. I don't care if she recruited ACT-UP to the Defence portfolio or the London chapter of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence to do formation flying over the White Cliffs. She was awful, awful, awful.

    Some decent Conservatives, only about tens of them but it was enough, stood up when it counted and not when it was fashionable. Edwina Currie, David Mellor, Norman Fowler. It could have killed their careers and they did it anyway (not like bloody Matthew Parris who only came out when it was safe. Even David Starkey didn't do that). Their memories should not be besmirched by saying they did it because Thatcher. They did it despite her.

    "...children who need to be able to express themselves in clear English have been taught political slogans. Children who need to be taught to respect traditional moral values are being taught that they have an inalienable right to be gay..." - Margaret Thatcher, Conservative Party Conference, 1987

    I swear to God above, PB has the memory of a mayfly.
    The Mellorphant Man was never “decent.”
  • Options

    ..

    viewcode said:

    FPT

    I want to correct a misconception about Mrs Thatcher.

    Section 28 was an abomination but it was an outlier in her career as she was generally pro gay.

    Voted to decriminalise homosexuality as part of Leo Abse's bill

    One of her earliest acts as Prime Minister was to civilise the Scots and Northern Irish by decriminalising homosexuality.

    She appointed lots of gayers (though the less said about Peter Morrison the better).

    How many times do I have to correct this? How many times do I have to hit this shibboleth around the head before it has the decency to stay dead? She was rabidly homophobic. The person who brought in Section 28 should not be thought of as homophile or even in the same postcode. Her attitude was the same of all the elites, who thought it was OK for their tribe but not for the working class and the common people. I don't care if she recruited ACT-UP to the Defence portfolio or the London chapter of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence to do formation flying over the White Cliffs. She was awful, awful, awful.

    Some decent Conservatives, only about tens of them but it was enough, stood up when it counted and not when it was fashionable. Edwina Currie, David Mellor, Norman Fowler. It could have killed their careers and they did it anyway (not like bloody Matthew Parris who only came out when it was safe. Even David Starkey didn't do that). Their memories should not be besmirched by saying they did it because Thatcher. They did it despite her.

    "...children who need to be able to express themselves in clear English have been taught political slogans. Children who need to be taught to respect traditional moral values are being taught that they have an inalienable right to be gay..." - Margaret Thatcher, Conservative Party Conference, 1987

    I swear to God above, PB has the memory of a mayfly.
    Unfortunate that Thatch was burnt rather buried. Now that children do have an inalienable right to be gay, there would have been a decent amount of power generation potential from a grave.
    A lot of dance floor potential in the Thatcher grace, too.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,735
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    File under "that's awful, oh well"

    The IDF are sending XL Bully type mega-dogs down the Hamas tunnels to eat the terrorists. Some have cameras attached

    Do they have guns?
    I wonder how complete a map they have?
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,555
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    File under "that's awful, oh well"

    The IDF are sending XL Bully type mega-dogs down the Hamas tunnels to eat the terrorists. Some have cameras attached

    Do they have guns?
    The tunnels look pitch black - I guess coz all the power has gone

    In my nightmares there aren't many as scary as a XL Bully suddenly coming down a totally darkened tunnel and then commencing to eat my face. In the dark
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,817
    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    And a new one from Deltapoll:

    UK (GB), Deltapoll poll:

    LAB-S&D: 46% (-1)
    CON~ECR: 25% (-2)
    LDEM-RE: 11% (+1)
    REFORM~NI: 7% (+1)
    GREENS-G/EFA: 6% (+1)
    SNP-G/EFA: 2%
    UKIP~ID: 2%
    PC-G/EFA: 0% (-1)

    +/- vs. 19-20 October 2023

    Fieldwork: 27-30 October 2023
    Sample size: 1,546

    ➤ europeelects.eu/uk/

    https://x.com/europeelects/status/1720826813750845493?s=46

    Definitely looks like a Tory downturn this week. COVID enquiry effect I assume.

    UKIP on 2% is an example of why polls are not always reliable. They won't put up anything like enough candidates to get 2% nationally.
    It’s really quite remarkable how not only do UKIP get unprompted support at this level, but Reform who have absolutely zero TV and online presence, an uncharismatic leader and invisible activists are regularly polling in the upper single figures.
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    MJWMJW Posts: 1,383
    Andy_JS said:

    The disappointing thing about England's performances is how they didn't leant anything as the competition progressed. They kept making the same mistakes in each match.

    I think this group of players just got far too comfortable and now don't really do 50 over cricket as a more prosaic discipline. The key to renewing a side after success is to realise when to kill your darlings and have faith in those coming up behind.

    Problem is, with no 50 over competition and a reduced number of ODIs, the players who might have provided competition and allowed selectors to drop big names who were clearly out of form or struggling for fitness, have hardly played it. Only really Harry Brook has been given a chance - and he wasn't in the initial squad - as they simply haven't been able to judge if someone is a good 50 over player.

    They stuck to the same old formula of bashing away, which was never going to work both in India, and now other teams have had 4 years to work out England's weaknesses.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,941

    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    I want to correct a misconception about Mrs Thatcher.

    Section 28 was an abomination but it was an outlier in her career as she was generally pro gay.

    Voted to decriminalise homosexuality as part of Leo Abse's bill

    One of her earliest acts as Prime Minister was to civilise the Scots and Northern Irish by decriminalising homosexuality.

    She appointed lots of gayers (though the less said about Peter Morrison the better)

    Above all else her government saved the lives of so many gay men by tackling the AIDS epidemic. She took on misconceptions and bigotry, the Chief Constable publicly said of AIDS/HIV sufferers that they were '"swirling in a human cesspit of their own making".

    Norman (and especially Fiona) Fowler deserves a huge amount of credit for the tombstone campaign.

    The civil service advised him he was being “courageous”

    I said the other day I consider Norman Fowler (and many others) secular saints for
    their work and efforts.
    He was havering over the decision because of the political risk. Fiona made quite clear to him that “consequences be damned” he should do the right thing.
    Er, you mean wavering? Havering = talking bollocks. Not correct, as he got the right
    result as TSE says.
    Your meaning is the Scottish one

    The British meaning is “to act in a vacillating or indecisive manner”

    The British (!) meaning is plain wrong. But don't let me stop you from persisting. It all adds to linguistic evolution.
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    MJWMJW Posts: 1,383

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    This has been the most embarrassingly inept performance by an England side since the Battle of Castillon.

    This match has been a bit better than some England performances this tournament, it was the tournament as a whole that was a disaster. The 100 replacing ODI matches a big factor in limiting match practice
    If ECB get rid of the Hundred as a result of this fiasco then that's a little silver lining. Why play a format that no one else plays??
    Apparently it brings in a lot of money.
    Why I have no idea.
    It doesn't - it loses money because of how much they spent on it and how much they have to bung the counties to go along with it. But it does generate revenue - mostly from a TV deal as Sky quite like it - and give them something centralised to 'sell' to investors and advertisers. Unlike the counties, which are decentralised and mostly members' clubs.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,068
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    File under "that's awful, oh well"

    The IDF are sending XL Bully type mega-dogs down the Hamas tunnels to eat the terrorists. Some have cameras attached

    Do they have guns?
    The tunnels look pitch black - I guess coz all the power has gone

    In my nightmares there aren't many as scary as a XL Bully suddenly coming down a totally darkened tunnel and then commencing to eat my face. In the dark
    How does the dog differentiate between a Hamas fighter and a hostage?
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