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Mid Beds – Make your predictions – politicalbetting.com

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  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145
    I had a bit of a bloodbath on - or not on - Theresa May, which cost me a couple of year's steady profits.

    So I am not making any predictions, in case anyone listens !
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779
    maxh said:

    Israeli Government going very hard on BBC accusing it of blood libel. They have a point. The misreporting, and the usual suspects sounding off , heightened tensions still further and undermined Bidens peace initiative. Islamic Jihad must be delighted. If the rocket had hit its intended target, and killed a few hundred Jews, it would have been shrugged off, with a bit of cautionary advice to the Israelis not to overreact.

    I had to re-Google blood libel to check I understood it after reading this.

    The BBC might have poorly reported the hospital attack, but how does that link to the blood libel claims?

    Genuine question.
    It doesn't. Most likely the Israeli government just doesn't want western media reporting from Gaza.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    tlg86 said:

    Tories going with a candidate whose surname begins with an A. Being top of the ballot can be worth a few points, but maybe that doesn't apply when there are so many candidates.


    Only really in multi-member constituencies versus fellow candidates of the same party (since people either don't realise they have multiple votes or decide to vote in a two member ward for, say, the independent plus one Tory, in which case they tend to pick the first Tory name on the ballot).

    I'm not aware of any evidence this is mirrored, or at least to any meaningful degree, in elections for a single member.
    Yes. Not the least of the objections to multi member, huge constituency, candidates of the same party opposing each other STV etc systems is that may end up with 650 MPs all called Aaron Aardvark.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    Mid Beds: I'm all green (thanks to early buys of Lab and Con, which I've traded out) but I 'invested' some of that profit in Lab at 3.5 yesterday.
    Haven't yet traded out again, so I guess I'm backing Lab. They were value at 3.5, for sure. I have been reasonably impressed by what I've seen of the Con candidate - including videos he was releasing of his canvassing before the by election was officially on, so I may yet trade out again.
  • Let's spare a thought today for Eddie Hughes MP, who will need to give an Oscar-worthy acting performance pretending to be disappointed if the Tories lose in Tamworth, or pretending to be pleased if they win.
  • LibDems over Labour by a narrow margin. Cons a distance behind.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,744
    Stocky said:

    Con win by less than 1,000 over Labour, with less than a third of the vote. Reform to finish fourth and hold deposit; no-one notices.

    Conservative vote split between Conservatives and Reform and Labour sneak through the middle and take it.
    That would be the absolute Lol response to the 'progressive alliance' types pearl-clutching at the Lib Dems and Labour both fighting and election to win.
  • algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tories going with a candidate whose surname begins with an A. Being top of the ballot can be worth a few points, but maybe that doesn't apply when there are so many candidates.


    Only really in multi-member constituencies versus fellow candidates of the same party (since people either don't realise they have multiple votes or decide to vote in a two member ward for, say, the independent plus one Tory, in which case they tend to pick the first Tory name on the ballot).

    I'm not aware of any evidence this is mirrored, or at least to any meaningful degree, in elections for a single member.
    Yes. Not the least of the objections to multi member, huge constituency, candidates of the same party opposing each other STV etc systems is that may end up with 650 MPs all called Aaron Aardvark.
    I just thank goodness that my mother had the good sense to put my surname down on the birth certificate as 111AAANorfolk-Passmore. Led to a lot of bullying at school, and the Passport Office tend to have questions, but hopefully I shall enjoy the last laugh.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tories going with a candidate whose surname begins with an A. Being top of the ballot can be worth a few points, but maybe that doesn't apply when there are so many candidates.


    Only really in multi-member constituencies versus fellow candidates of the same party (since people either don't realise they have multiple votes or decide to vote in a two member ward for, say, the independent plus one Tory, in which case they tend to pick the first Tory name on the ballot).

    I'm not aware of any evidence this is mirrored, or at least to any meaningful degree, in elections for a single member.
    Yes. Not the least of the objections to multi member, huge constituency, candidates of the same party opposing each other STV etc systems is that may end up with 650 MPs all called Aaron Aardvark.
    I just thank goodness that my mother had the good sense to put my surname down on the birth certificate as 111AAANorfolk-Passmore. Led to a lot of bullying at school, and the Passport Office tend to have questions, but hopefully I shall enjoy the last laugh.
    You'd not have liked sewing or stamping that on every piece of clothing or equipment in the days of conscription ...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    Israeli Government going very hard on BBC accusing it of blood libel. They have a point. The misreporting, and the usual suspects sounding off , heightened tensions still further and undermined Bidens peace initiative. Islamic Jihad must be delighted. If the rocket had hit its intended target, and killed a few hundred Jews, it would have been shrugged off, with a bit of cautionary advice to the Israelis not to overreact.

    Shrugged off by who? Who are you talking about here?
  • OldBasingOldBasing Posts: 173
    Some Labour people I follow on social media with their ear to the ground seem quite bullish on Mid-Beds (and Tamworth) - alledging a good ground game in both seats - but I'm not sure I have the confidence to place a bet on either. Very large majorities to overturn. Tamworth seems the more significant seat really with General Election implications.

    I'm not convinced on the Lib Dems for Mid Beds - they haven't followed their usual tactics realeasing 'internal polling' numbers throughout the campaign saying it's close.

    So probably leaning Lab gain Tamworth and Con hold Mid Beds.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    Selebian said:

    Mid Beds: I'm all green (thanks to early buys of Lab and Con, which I've traded out) but I 'invested' some of that profit in Lab at 3.5 yesterday.
    Haven't yet traded out again, so I guess I'm backing Lab. They were value at 3.5, for sure. I have been reasonably impressed by what I've seen of the Con candidate - including videos he was releasing of his canvassing before the by election was officially on, so I may yet trade out again.

    So, actual prediction: Con. But I don't fancy them at under evens as at present - I see it tight between Con and Lab. Have however traded out Lab now.
  • agingjb2agingjb2 Posts: 114
    Tories and Labour would like any third party to go away. Of course the two party state that they, and the Tories, prefer is a stepping stone to the one party state that they both really want.

    I will not vote for either of them (and have doubts about any other party).
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,224
    algarkirk said:

    maxh said:

    Israeli Government going very hard on BBC accusing it of blood libel. They have a point. The misreporting, and the usual suspects sounding off , heightened tensions still further and undermined Bidens peace initiative. Islamic Jihad must be delighted. If the rocket had hit its intended target, and killed a few hundred Jews, it would have been shrugged off, with a bit of cautionary advice to the Israelis not to overreact.

    I had to re-Google blood libel to check I understood it after reading this.

    The BBC might have poorly reported the hospital attack, but how does that link to the blood libel claims?

    Genuine question.
    It doesn't. It's bonkers. Israel sometimes tests the patience of its long term liberal minded supporters (including me). The BBC has to be taken over all, not in single sentences or two minutes of hyperbole. The last few days have shown it to be (WRT news and current affairs, loads of other stuff is junk) a fantastic organisation, a good deed in a naughty world and a bastion of the idea of objectivity. These values will always be expressed imperfectly. But compared, say, with the imperfections of Israel they are small.
    Okay thanks, and to OLB and Burgessian for the same answer.

    If you’re all correct (I’m sure you are) this weaponisation of antisemitism is deeply unpleasant by Israel. Not least because it is the old story of crying wolf and so it is likely to be Jews that suffer as a result of it.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Mid Beds prediction: Tories to win but not by much. Low turnout. Hope I am wrong, as at the odds I have nibbled on Labour as value, and the Tories deserve obliteration.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,744
    edited October 2023
    OldBasing said:

    Some Labour people I follow on social media with their ear to the ground seem quite bullish on Mid-Beds (and Tamworth) - alledging a good ground game in both seats - but I'm not sure I have the confidence to place a bet on either. Very large majorities to overturn. Tamworth seems the more significant seat really with General Election implications.

    I'm not convinced on the Lib Dems for Mid Beds - they haven't followed their usual tactics realeasing 'internal polling' numbers throughout the campaign saying it's close.

    So probably leaning Lab gain Tamworth and Con hold Mid Beds.

    More than "Very large majorities to overturn". Mid Beds would be the largest-ever Westminster majority overturned at a by-election*, if the Tories lose.

    * Though I don't know of any majority larger than 24,664 overturned at a general election either. Blair didn't manage it in 1997 and none of SLab's losses in 2015 had majorities that big, IIRC. It's possible that 1945 or 1931 might have thrown up an extreme case though.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747
    algarkirk said:

    maxh said:

    Israeli Government going very hard on BBC accusing it of blood libel. They have a point. The misreporting, and the usual suspects sounding off , heightened tensions still further and undermined Bidens peace initiative. Islamic Jihad must be delighted. If the rocket had hit its intended target, and killed a few hundred Jews, it would have been shrugged off, with a bit of cautionary advice to the Israelis not to overreact.

    I had to re-Google blood libel to check I understood it after reading this.

    The BBC might have poorly reported the hospital attack, but how does that link to the blood libel claims?

    Genuine question.
    It doesn't. It's bonkers. Israel sometimes tests the patience of its long term liberal minded supporters (including me). The BBC has to be taken over all, not in single sentences or two minutes of hyperbole. The last few days have shown it to be (WRT news and current affairs, loads of other stuff is junk) a fantastic organisation, a good deed in a naughty world and a bastion of the idea of objectivity. These values will always be expressed imperfectly. But compared, say, with the imperfections of Israel they are small.
    With respect I think you may be overlooking the consequences of the misreporting. It's made things even worse. Too many people were too prepared to believe Israel was responsible, possibly due to a subliminal wish to prove to themselves that each side is as bad as the other while they themselves are even-handed and balanced.
  • I will confidently predict that if the Cons hold Mid Beds we will hear a lot from Lab about how the LDs lost the election for them but very little about their decision to parachute a London Cllr in as their candidate. Candidate selection really can matter in BEs as Lab should have learned from Uxbridge if not long before.
  • valleyboyvalleyboy Posts: 606
    Easy Tory hold in Mid Beds
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,224

    maxh said:

    Israeli Government going very hard on BBC accusing it of blood libel. They have a point. The misreporting, and the usual suspects sounding off , heightened tensions still further and undermined Bidens peace initiative. Islamic Jihad must be delighted. If the rocket had hit its intended target, and killed a few hundred Jews, it would have been shrugged off, with a bit of cautionary advice to the Israelis not to overreact.

    I had to re-Google blood libel to check I understood it after reading this.

    The BBC might have poorly reported the hospital attack, but how does that link to the blood libel claims?

    Genuine question.
    Dunno. Not an expert. But I imagine the charge that they had targeted a hospital might have somewhat infuriated them.
    But hang on. Rereading your post you say ‘they have a point’. What’s their point? They might be right to be infuriated but you are specifically talking about the blood libel claim.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Mid Beds: I'm all green (thanks to early buys of Lab and Con, which I've traded out) but I 'invested' some of that profit in Lab at 3.5 yesterday.
    Haven't yet traded out again, so I guess I'm backing Lab. They were value at 3.5, for sure. I have been reasonably impressed by what I've seen of the Con candidate - including videos he was releasing of his canvassing before the by election was officially on, so I may yet trade out again.

    So, actual prediction: Con. But I don't fancy them at under evens as at present - I see it tight between Con and Lab. Have however traded out Lab now.
    Playing it like a violin there. Hats off.
  • mickydroymickydroy Posts: 316
    Tories to hang on in mid beds, which hopefully will bang lib dems and Labour heads together, and construct a better strategy for GE, this will be a hollow victory for the Tories, and one they can take little comfort from.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    edited October 2023
    I'm pretty chuffed with getting on the Tories in Mid Beds at 2.5.

    They are now odds-on, and rightly so.

    Liberal hubris there means the blues should squeeze through the middle.

    I'm slightly more confident of a Labour win in Tamworth, but there's no value there.
  • I’m in the Tory WhatsApp Tamworth campaign group.

    If they do lose it won’t be due to a lack of effort.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145
    Reflecting, I don't care what the Mid-Beds result is.

    We already have the main benefit, which is the not-Baroness of Mid-Bedfordshire being ejected into the place of gnashing and grinding of teeth, presumably to write novels about diddicoys.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    OldBasing said:

    Some Labour people I follow on social media with their ear to the ground seem quite bullish on Mid-Beds (and Tamworth) - alledging a good ground game in both seats - but I'm not sure I have the confidence to place a bet on either. Very large majorities to overturn. Tamworth seems the more significant seat really with General Election implications.

    I'm not convinced on the Lib Dems for Mid Beds - they haven't followed their usual tactics realeasing 'internal polling' numbers throughout the campaign saying it's close.

    So probably leaning Lab gain Tamworth and Con hold Mid Beds.

    More than "Very large majorities to overturn". Mid Beds would be the largest-ever Westminster majority overturned at a by-election*, if the Tories lose.

    * Though I don't know of any majority larger than 24,664 overturned at a general election either. Blair didn't manage it in 1997 and none of SLab's losses in 2015 had majorities that big, IIRC. It's possible that 1945 or 1931 might have thrown up an extreme case though.
    Great knowledge, great factoid.

    The only way this was ever on was if the two opposition parties did a backroom deal, a la Somerton.

    Sadly, the Liberals decided to hammer the seat despite their being in third place; and Labour were slow to the punch. A better example of a mismanaged FPP bear fight one could barely craft oneself.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,149
    edited October 2023

    tlg86 said:

    Tories going with a candidate whose surname begins with an A. Being top of the ballot can be worth a few points, but maybe that doesn't apply when there are so many candidates.


    Only really in multi-member constituencies versus fellow candidates of the same party (since people either don't realise they have multiple votes or decide to vote in a two member ward for, say, the independent plus one Tory, in which case they tend to pick the first Tory name on the ballot).

    I'm not aware of any evidence this is mirrored, or at least to any meaningful degree, in elections for a single member.
    https://electionlab.mit.edu/research/ballot-order-effects
    I'd suggest a lot of this is to with the US having elections for relatively minor positions at the same time as major elections. So, if someone comes in to vote Trump or Biden, quite a few people really couldn't give a toss by the time they get to the election for municipal dog catcher.

    One of the findings - "appearing first on the ballot in the 2000 presidential election increased George W. Bush’s vote share by almost 10 percentage points" - is one where I can't get access to the paper, so it may misrepresent the finding but, on the face of it, I'm just calling bullsh1t on it. Indeed, if it's right, Donald Trump can feel justifiably aggrieved that he lost the popular vote to both Biden and Clinton due to this massive effect!
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    I'm pretty chuffed with getting on the Tories in Mid Beds at 2.5.

    They are now odds-on, and rightly so.

    Liberal hubris there means the blues should squeeze through the middle.

    I'm slightly more confident of a Labour win in Tamworth, but there's no value there.

    Am on at 2.

    I reckon Tories by 4k
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,913

    OldBasing said:

    Some Labour people I follow on social media with their ear to the ground seem quite bullish on Mid-Beds (and Tamworth) - alledging a good ground game in both seats - but I'm not sure I have the confidence to place a bet on either. Very large majorities to overturn. Tamworth seems the more significant seat really with General Election implications.

    I'm not convinced on the Lib Dems for Mid Beds - they haven't followed their usual tactics realeasing 'internal polling' numbers throughout the campaign saying it's close.

    So probably leaning Lab gain Tamworth and Con hold Mid Beds.

    More than "Very large majorities to overturn". Mid Beds would be the largest-ever Westminster majority overturned at a by-election*, if the Tories lose.

    * Though I don't know of any majority larger than 24,664 overturned at a general election either. Blair didn't manage it in 1997 and none of SLab's losses in 2015 had majorities that big, IIRC. It's possible that 1945 or 1931 might have thrown up an extreme case though.
    Tiv and Hon 24,239
    Richmond Park 23,015
    Christchurch 23,015 (apparently a tie???)
    North Shropshire 22,949

    So yes it would be a new record by a few hundred.

    Christchurch looks like the one to beat 23,015 overturned and new majority of 16,427.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_by-election_records
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,035

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tories going with a candidate whose surname begins with an A. Being top of the ballot can be worth a few points, but maybe that doesn't apply when there are so many candidates.


    Only really in multi-member constituencies versus fellow candidates of the same party (since people either don't realise they have multiple votes or decide to vote in a two member ward for, say, the independent plus one Tory, in which case they tend to pick the first Tory name on the ballot).

    I'm not aware of any evidence this is mirrored, or at least to any meaningful degree, in elections for a single member.
    Yes. Not the least of the objections to multi member, huge constituency, candidates of the same party opposing each other STV etc systems is that may end up with 650 MPs all called Aaron Aardvark.
    I just thank goodness that my mother had the good sense to put my surname down on the birth certificate as 111AAANorfolk-Passmore. Led to a lot of bullying at school, and the Passport Office tend to have questions, but hopefully I shall enjoy the last laugh.
    Did Her Majesty crack a smile about it when you picked up your knighthood?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,624
    edited October 2023
    Sandpit said:

    Brits and Americans urged to leave Lebanon ASAP “While commercial flight options are still available”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/19/israel-palestine-latest-news-updates-hamas-gaza-day-13-live/

    That formulation always makes me think of the warnings immediately before the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908
    Andy_JS said:

    Mid Beds prediction

    Con 34%
    Lab 28%
    LD 28%
    Reform 4%
    Green 3%
    Others 3%

    If I remember from day one you predicted Tories on 35% and you said that would probably win it for for them. If you turn out to be right you'll take over from David Herdson as PB's new seer.

  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Mid Beds prediction

    Con 34%
    Lab 28%
    LD 28%
    Reform 4%
    Green 3%
    Others 3%

    If I remember from day one you predicted Tories on 35% and you said that would probably win it for for them. If you turn out to be right you'll take over from David Herdson as PB's new seer.

    Andy is very astute with seat predictions.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Mid Beds:

    Lab 36
    LD 28
    Con 26

  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747
    maxh said:

    maxh said:

    Israeli Government going very hard on BBC accusing it of blood libel. They have a point. The misreporting, and the usual suspects sounding off , heightened tensions still further and undermined Bidens peace initiative. Islamic Jihad must be delighted. If the rocket had hit its intended target, and killed a few hundred Jews, it would have been shrugged off, with a bit of cautionary advice to the Israelis not to overreact.

    I had to re-Google blood libel to check I understood it after reading this.

    The BBC might have poorly reported the hospital attack, but how does that link to the blood libel claims?

    Genuine question.
    Dunno. Not an expert. But I imagine the charge that they had targeted a hospital might have somewhat infuriated them.
    But hang on. Rereading your post you say ‘they have a point’. What’s their point? They might be right to be infuriated but you are specifically talking about the blood libel claim.
    Nope. I simply thought they had a point which justified their being so angry. However thinking about it, the implication of the charge was that they had the blood of the hospital victims on their hands. Which could be seen as a "blood libel".
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,149
    edited October 2023
    Fishing said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tories going with a candidate whose surname begins with an A. Being top of the ballot can be worth a few points, but maybe that doesn't apply when there are so many candidates.


    Only really in multi-member constituencies versus fellow candidates of the same party (since people either don't realise they have multiple votes or decide to vote in a two member ward for, say, the independent plus one Tory, in which case they tend to pick the first Tory name on the ballot).

    I'm not aware of any evidence this is mirrored, or at least to any meaningful degree, in elections for a single member.
    Yes. Not the least of the objections to multi member, huge constituency, candidates of the same party opposing each other STV etc systems is that may end up with 650 MPs all called Aaron Aardvark.
    I just thank goodness that my mother had the good sense to put my surname down on the birth certificate as 111AAANorfolk-Passmore. Led to a lot of bullying at school, and the Passport Office tend to have questions, but hopefully I shall enjoy the last laugh.
    Did Her Majesty crack a smile about it when you picked up your knighthood?
    HMQ unavailable on the day, so I actually picked mine up from Princess Aaaaaanne.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    I don’t know… I think Labour win Tamworth.

    Any combo of the top 3 in Mid Beds is plausible. I think the LDs’ odds are too long and the Cons’ too short. If I had to pick, Labour to win, Con 2nd, LD 3rd.

    Hopefully I’ve expressed sufficient uncertainty that I won’t get ribbed for getting it wrong!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    edited October 2023

    maxh said:

    maxh said:

    Israeli Government going very hard on BBC accusing it of blood libel. They have a point. The misreporting, and the usual suspects sounding off , heightened tensions still further and undermined Bidens peace initiative. Islamic Jihad must be delighted. If the rocket had hit its intended target, and killed a few hundred Jews, it would have been shrugged off, with a bit of cautionary advice to the Israelis not to overreact.

    I had to re-Google blood libel to check I understood it after reading this.

    The BBC might have poorly reported the hospital attack, but how does that link to the blood libel claims?

    Genuine question.
    Dunno. Not an expert. But I imagine the charge that they had targeted a hospital might have somewhat infuriated them.
    But hang on. Rereading your post you say ‘they have a point’. What’s their point? They might be right to be infuriated but you are specifically talking about the blood libel claim.
    Nope. I simply thought they had a point which justified their being so angry. However thinking about it, the implication of the charge was that they had the blood of the hospital victims on their hands. Which could be seen as a "blood libel".
    Blood libel is a very specific thing, not shorthand for an accusation (justified or not) of blood on their hands.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051

    maxh said:

    maxh said:

    Israeli Government going very hard on BBC accusing it of blood libel. They have a point. The misreporting, and the usual suspects sounding off , heightened tensions still further and undermined Bidens peace initiative. Islamic Jihad must be delighted. If the rocket had hit its intended target, and killed a few hundred Jews, it would have been shrugged off, with a bit of cautionary advice to the Israelis not to overreact.

    I had to re-Google blood libel to check I understood it after reading this.

    The BBC might have poorly reported the hospital attack, but how does that link to the blood libel claims?

    Genuine question.
    Dunno. Not an expert. But I imagine the charge that they had targeted a hospital might have somewhat infuriated them.
    But hang on. Rereading your post you say ‘they have a point’. What’s their point? They might be right to be infuriated but you are specifically talking about the blood libel claim.
    Nope. I simply thought they had a point which justified their being so angry. However thinking about it, the implication of the charge was that they had the blood of the hospital victims on their hands. Which could be seen as a "blood libel".
    I don’t see how that can really be seen as referencing the blood libel.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    Fishing said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tories going with a candidate whose surname begins with an A. Being top of the ballot can be worth a few points, but maybe that doesn't apply when there are so many candidates.


    Only really in multi-member constituencies versus fellow candidates of the same party (since people either don't realise they have multiple votes or decide to vote in a two member ward for, say, the independent plus one Tory, in which case they tend to pick the first Tory name on the ballot).

    I'm not aware of any evidence this is mirrored, or at least to any meaningful degree, in elections for a single member.
    Yes. Not the least of the objections to multi member, huge constituency, candidates of the same party opposing each other STV etc systems is that may end up with 650 MPs all called Aaron Aardvark.
    I just thank goodness that my mother had the good sense to put my surname down on the birth certificate as 111AAANorfolk-Passmore. Led to a lot of bullying at school, and the Passport Office tend to have questions, but hopefully I shall enjoy the last laugh.
    Did Her Majesty crack a smile about it when you picked up your knighthood?
    HMQ unavailable on the day, so I actually picked mine up from Princess Aaaaaanne.
    Shame it wasn’t Prince Will.I.Am.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,744

    OldBasing said:

    Some Labour people I follow on social media with their ear to the ground seem quite bullish on Mid-Beds (and Tamworth) - alledging a good ground game in both seats - but I'm not sure I have the confidence to place a bet on either. Very large majorities to overturn. Tamworth seems the more significant seat really with General Election implications.

    I'm not convinced on the Lib Dems for Mid Beds - they haven't followed their usual tactics realeasing 'internal polling' numbers throughout the campaign saying it's close.

    So probably leaning Lab gain Tamworth and Con hold Mid Beds.

    More than "Very large majorities to overturn". Mid Beds would be the largest-ever Westminster majority overturned at a by-election*, if the Tories lose.

    * Though I don't know of any majority larger than 24,664 overturned at a general election either. Blair didn't manage it in 1997 and none of SLab's losses in 2015 had majorities that big, IIRC. It's possible that 1945 or 1931 might have thrown up an extreme case though.
    Tiv and Hon 24,239
    Richmond Park 23,015
    Christchurch 23,015 (apparently a tie???)
    North Shropshire 22,949

    So yes it would be a new record by a few hundred.

    Christchurch looks like the one to beat 23,015 overturned and new majority of 16,427.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_by-election_records
    The record pre-Tiverton & Honiton was Liverpool Wavertree (1935), where the 1931 Tory majority was 23,972.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747

    maxh said:

    maxh said:

    Israeli Government going very hard on BBC accusing it of blood libel. They have a point. The misreporting, and the usual suspects sounding off , heightened tensions still further and undermined Bidens peace initiative. Islamic Jihad must be delighted. If the rocket had hit its intended target, and killed a few hundred Jews, it would have been shrugged off, with a bit of cautionary advice to the Israelis not to overreact.

    I had to re-Google blood libel to check I understood it after reading this.

    The BBC might have poorly reported the hospital attack, but how does that link to the blood libel claims?

    Genuine question.
    Dunno. Not an expert. But I imagine the charge that they had targeted a hospital might have somewhat infuriated them.
    But hang on. Rereading your post you say ‘they have a point’. What’s their point? They might be right to be infuriated but you are specifically talking about the blood libel claim.
    Nope. I simply thought they had a point which justified their being so angry. However thinking about it, the implication of the charge was that they had the blood of the hospital victims on their hands. Which could be seen as a "blood libel".
    Blood libel is a very specific thing, not shorthand for an accusation of blood on their hands.
    You're very likely right. I don't necessarily endorse the charge. As it happens I'm a fan of the Beeb. But I do think the Israelis have a right to be very very angry. The consequences of misinformation about something like that are very grave indeed.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,543
    I telled and knocked up in Mid Beds this morning.

    Only Lib Dems, Labour (Nick Palmer) and True and Fair telling this morning in Flitwick.

    Labour are not collecting polling numbers, just being friendly outside the polling station.

    They must be relying on a full knockup.

    Both Labour and Lib Dem offices were busy as I passed.

    Conservative and Labour (Rachel Reaves) were knocking up in the same village as me.

    Lots of hard work from all quarters so turnout could be higher than expected.
  • maxh said:

    maxh said:

    Israeli Government going very hard on BBC accusing it of blood libel. They have a point. The misreporting, and the usual suspects sounding off , heightened tensions still further and undermined Bidens peace initiative. Islamic Jihad must be delighted. If the rocket had hit its intended target, and killed a few hundred Jews, it would have been shrugged off, with a bit of cautionary advice to the Israelis not to overreact.

    I had to re-Google blood libel to check I understood it after reading this.

    The BBC might have poorly reported the hospital attack, but how does that link to the blood libel claims?

    Genuine question.
    Dunno. Not an expert. But I imagine the charge that they had targeted a hospital might have somewhat infuriated them.
    But hang on. Rereading your post you say ‘they have a point’. What’s their point? They might be right to be infuriated but you are specifically talking about the blood libel claim.
    Nope. I simply thought they had a point which justified their being so angry. However thinking about it, the implication of the charge was that they had the blood of the hospital victims on their hands. Which could be seen as a "blood libel".
    You really need to read up on blood libel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,224

    maxh said:

    maxh said:

    Israeli Government going very hard on BBC accusing it of blood libel. They have a point. The misreporting, and the usual suspects sounding off , heightened tensions still further and undermined Bidens peace initiative. Islamic Jihad must be delighted. If the rocket had hit its intended target, and killed a few hundred Jews, it would have been shrugged off, with a bit of cautionary advice to the Israelis not to overreact.

    I had to re-Google blood libel to check I understood it after reading this.

    The BBC might have poorly reported the hospital attack, but how does that link to the blood libel claims?

    Genuine question.
    Dunno. Not an expert. But I imagine the charge that they had targeted a hospital might have somewhat infuriated them.
    But hang on. Rereading your post you say ‘they have a point’. What’s their point? They might be right to be infuriated but you are specifically talking about the blood libel claim.
    Nope. I simply thought they had a point which justified their being so angry. However thinking about it, the implication of the charge was that they had the blood of the hospital victims on their hands. Which could be seen as a "blood libel".
    With respect, that’s not what you said: Israeli Government going very hard on BBC accusing it of blood libel. They have a point.

    And as for whether the reporting of the hospital attack constitutes blood libel: Blood libel or ritual murder libel (also blood accusation)[1][2] is an antisemitic canard[3][4][5] which falsely accuses Jews of murdering Christian boys in order to use their blood in the performance of religious rituals.

    Credulously buying into the claims of either side in this conflict is dodgy, it seems.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051

    I telled and knocked up in Mid Beds this morning.

    Only Lib Dems, Labour (Nick Palmer) and True and Fair telling this morning in Flitwick.

    Labour are not collecting polling numbers, just being friendly outside the polling station.

    They must be relying on a full knockup.

    Both Labour and Lib Dem offices were busy as I passed.

    Conservative and Labour (Rachel Reaves) were knocking up in the same village as me.

    Lots of hard work from all quarters so turnout could be higher than expected.

    I am surprised that a party with a serious chance is not collecting polling numbers everywhere.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908

    algarkirk said:

    maxh said:

    Israeli Government going very hard on BBC accusing it of blood libel. They have a point. The misreporting, and the usual suspects sounding off , heightened tensions still further and undermined Bidens peace initiative. Islamic Jihad must be delighted. If the rocket had hit its intended target, and killed a few hundred Jews, it would have been shrugged off, with a bit of cautionary advice to the Israelis not to overreact.

    I had to re-Google blood libel to check I understood it after reading this.

    The BBC might have poorly reported the hospital attack, but how does that link to the blood libel claims?

    Genuine question.
    It doesn't. It's bonkers. Israel sometimes tests the patience of its long term liberal minded supporters (including me). The BBC has to be taken over all, not in single sentences or two minutes of hyperbole. The last few days have shown it to be (WRT news and current affairs, loads of other stuff is junk) a fantastic organisation, a good deed in a naughty world and a bastion of the idea of objectivity. These values will always be expressed imperfectly. But compared, say, with the imperfections of Israel they are small.
    With respect I think you may be overlooking the consequences of the misreporting. It's made things even worse. Too many people were too prepared to believe Israel was responsible, possibly due to a subliminal wish to prove to themselves that each side is as bad as the other while they themselves are even-handed and balanced.

    algarkirk said:

    maxh said:

    Israeli Government going very hard on BBC accusing it of blood libel. They have a point. The misreporting, and the usual suspects sounding off , heightened tensions still further and undermined Bidens peace initiative. Islamic Jihad must be delighted. If the rocket had hit its intended target, and killed a few hundred Jews, it would have been shrugged off, with a bit of cautionary advice to the Israelis not to overreact.

    I had to re-Google blood libel to check I understood it after reading this.

    The BBC might have poorly reported the hospital attack, but how does that link to the blood libel claims?

    Genuine question.
    It doesn't. It's bonkers. Israel sometimes tests the patience of its long term liberal minded supporters (including me). The BBC has to be taken over all, not in single sentences or two minutes of hyperbole. The last few days have shown it to be (WRT news and current affairs, loads of other stuff is junk) a fantastic organisation, a good deed in a naughty world and a bastion of the idea of objectivity. These values will always be expressed imperfectly. But compared, say, with the imperfections of Israel they are small.
    With respect I think you may be overlooking the consequences of the misreporting. It's made things even worse. Too many people were too prepared to believe Israel was responsible, possibly due to a subliminal wish to prove to themselves that each side is as bad as the other while they themselves are even-handed and balanced.
    When Gaza is under continuos bombardment from the Israelis it wasn't surprising that ALL the news outlets (Al Jazeerah unlike the BBC have reporters in Gaza City) assumed the bomb was from the Israelis. What's more their history in the area for misinformation is such that even if the Israelis had denied it immediately few in the Arab world would have believed them.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFtE9HMtiOc



  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,586
    The way to win PB byelection prediction competitions is to choose something unexpected which no one else has picked. Byelections being so hard to predict. Therefore:

    Mid beds:

    Libs 35
    Lab 34
    Cons 26
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,913
    Nigelb said:

    "Solar is set to overpower fossil fuels as the dominant electricity source globally by 2050, according to a new study. [...] Solar power is set to dominate global electricity markets within the next few decades, and may have already reached an “irreversible tipping point,” according to a study published this week in Nature Communications. The study finds that solar adoption will continue apace barring any major policy shifts geared at disrupting it."
    https://twitter.com/patrickc/status/1714988564801519937

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/solar-power-by-country
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    Mid Beds prediction

    Cons 35%, Lab 34%, LDs 25% Others 6%

    Labour to gain Tamworth
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419
    Nigelb said:

    "Solar is set to overpower fossil fuels as the dominant electricity source globally by 2050, according to a new study. [...] Solar power is set to dominate global electricity markets within the next few decades, and may have already reached an “irreversible tipping point,” according to a study published this week in Nature Communications. The study finds that solar adoption will continue apace barring any major policy shifts geared at disrupting it."
    https://twitter.com/patrickc/status/1714988564801519937

    In other words it will continue until people stop flinging subsidies at it. That's hardly surprising. Powering the world with blancmange would be winning the energy race if it was subsidised as we do with favoured renewables.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,224

    maxh said:

    maxh said:

    Israeli Government going very hard on BBC accusing it of blood libel. They have a point. The misreporting, and the usual suspects sounding off , heightened tensions still further and undermined Bidens peace initiative. Islamic Jihad must be delighted. If the rocket had hit its intended target, and killed a few hundred Jews, it would have been shrugged off, with a bit of cautionary advice to the Israelis not to overreact.

    I had to re-Google blood libel to check I understood it after reading this.

    The BBC might have poorly reported the hospital attack, but how does that link to the blood libel claims?

    Genuine question.
    Dunno. Not an expert. But I imagine the charge that they had targeted a hospital might have somewhat infuriated them.
    But hang on. Rereading your post you say ‘they have a point’. What’s their point? They might be right to be infuriated but you are specifically talking about the blood libel claim.
    Nope. I simply thought they had a point which justified their being so angry. However thinking about it, the implication of the charge was that they had the blood of the hospital victims on their hands. Which could be seen as a "blood libel".
    Blood libel is a very specific thing, not shorthand for an accusation of blood on their hands.
    You're very likely right. I don't necessarily endorse the charge. As it happens I'm a fan of the Beeb. But I do think the Israelis have a right to be very very angry. The consequences of misinformation about something like that are very grave indeed.

    maxh said:

    maxh said:

    Israeli Government going very hard on BBC accusing it of blood libel. They have a point. The misreporting, and the usual suspects sounding off , heightened tensions still further and undermined Bidens peace initiative. Islamic Jihad must be delighted. If the rocket had hit its intended target, and killed a few hundred Jews, it would have been shrugged off, with a bit of cautionary advice to the Israelis not to overreact.

    I had to re-Google blood libel to check I understood it after reading this.

    The BBC might have poorly reported the hospital attack, but how does that link to the blood libel claims?

    Genuine question.
    Dunno. Not an expert. But I imagine the charge that they had targeted a hospital might have somewhat infuriated them.
    But hang on. Rereading your post you say ‘they have a point’. What’s their point? They might be right to be infuriated but you are specifically talking about the blood libel claim.
    Nope. I simply thought they had a point which justified their being so angry. However thinking about it, the implication of the charge was that they had the blood of the hospital victims on their hands. Which could be seen as a "blood libel".
    Blood libel is a very specific thing, not shorthand for an accusation of blood on their hands.
    You're very likely right. I don't necessarily endorse the charge. As it happens I'm a fan of the Beeb. But I do think the Israelis have a right to be very very angry. The consequences of misinformation about something like that are very grave indeed.
    Yes but you’re also spreading misinformation, it seems. (Not suggesting this is intentional).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    Ummmm: I used to have detailed stats on family size by country, and while that is undoubtedly part of the story, it definitely isn't true for countries like Bangladesh. There you still have 90+% of women married by the time they are 25, and average family sized have collapsed.

    Let me find my stats, because while I'm sure the Spectator data is right about Western Europe / Singapore / Japan (and increasingly China), I'm very sceptical that it's true of the emerging world.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Roger said:

    algarkirk said:

    maxh said:

    Israeli Government going very hard on BBC accusing it of blood libel. They have a point. The misreporting, and the usual suspects sounding off , heightened tensions still further and undermined Bidens peace initiative. Islamic Jihad must be delighted. If the rocket had hit its intended target, and killed a few hundred Jews, it would have been shrugged off, with a bit of cautionary advice to the Israelis not to overreact.

    I had to re-Google blood libel to check I understood it after reading this.

    The BBC might have poorly reported the hospital attack, but how does that link to the blood libel claims?

    Genuine question.
    It doesn't. It's bonkers. Israel sometimes tests the patience of its long term liberal minded supporters (including me). The BBC has to be taken over all, not in single sentences or two minutes of hyperbole. The last few days have shown it to be (WRT news and current affairs, loads of other stuff is junk) a fantastic organisation, a good deed in a naughty world and a bastion of the idea of objectivity. These values will always be expressed imperfectly. But compared, say, with the imperfections of Israel they are small.
    With respect I think you may be overlooking the consequences of the misreporting. It's made things even worse. Too many people were too prepared to believe Israel was responsible, possibly due to a subliminal wish to prove to themselves that each side is as bad as the other while they themselves are even-handed and balanced.

    algarkirk said:

    maxh said:

    Israeli Government going very hard on BBC accusing it of blood libel. They have a point. The misreporting, and the usual suspects sounding off , heightened tensions still further and undermined Bidens peace initiative. Islamic Jihad must be delighted. If the rocket had hit its intended target, and killed a few hundred Jews, it would have been shrugged off, with a bit of cautionary advice to the Israelis not to overreact.

    I had to re-Google blood libel to check I understood it after reading this.

    The BBC might have poorly reported the hospital attack, but how does that link to the blood libel claims?

    Genuine question.
    It doesn't. It's bonkers. Israel sometimes tests the patience of its long term liberal minded supporters (including me). The BBC has to be taken over all, not in single sentences or two minutes of hyperbole. The last few days have shown it to be (WRT news and current affairs, loads of other stuff is junk) a fantastic organisation, a good deed in a naughty world and a bastion of the idea of objectivity. These values will always be expressed imperfectly. But compared, say, with the imperfections of Israel they are small.
    With respect I think you may be overlooking the consequences of the misreporting. It's made things even worse. Too many people were too prepared to believe Israel was responsible, possibly due to a subliminal wish to prove to themselves that each side is as bad as the other while they themselves are even-handed and balanced.
    When Gaza is under continuos bombardment from the Israelis it wasn't surprising that ALL the news outlets (Al Jazeerah unlike the BBC have reporters in Gaza City) assumed the bomb was from the Israelis. What's more their history in the area for misinformation is such that even if the Israelis had denied it immediately few in the Arab world would have believed them.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFtE9HMtiOc



    The BBC have reporters in Gaza. And, BTW, Al Jazeera has not distinguished itself over all this. The BBC has tried pretty hard.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    Why on earth would protesters want to prevent that film being shown ? Did it say ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    edited October 2023

    Nigelb said:

    "Solar is set to overpower fossil fuels as the dominant electricity source globally by 2050, according to a new study. [...] Solar power is set to dominate global electricity markets within the next few decades, and may have already reached an “irreversible tipping point,” according to a study published this week in Nature Communications. The study finds that solar adoption will continue apace barring any major policy shifts geared at disrupting it."
    https://twitter.com/patrickc/status/1714988564801519937

    In other words it will continue until people stop flinging subsidies at it. That's hardly surprising. Powering the world with blancmange would be winning the energy race if it was subsidised as we do with favoured renewables.
    No, that's not what's happening.
    As you aren't going to read the actual report, here's the TLDR.

    Decarbonisation plans across the globe require zero-carbon energy sources to be widely deployed by 2050 or 2060. Solar energy is the most widely available energy resource on Earth, and its economic attractiveness is improving fast in a cycle of increasing investments. Here we use data-driven conditional technology and economic forecasting modelling to establish which zero carbon power sources could become dominant worldwide. We find that, due to technological trajectories set in motion by past policy, a global irreversible solar tipping point may have passed where solar energy gradually comes to dominate global electricity markets, without any further climate policies. Uncertainties arise, however, over grid stability in a renewables-dominated power system, the availability of sufficient finance in underdeveloped economies, the capacity of supply chains and political resistance from regions that lose employment. Policies resolving these barriers may be more effective than price instruments to accelerate the transition to clean energy.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-41971-7
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    The Speccie has strengthened its paywall recently. Is there a workaround at the moment? It used to be worth paying for but sadly no longer.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    The Speccie has strengthened its paywall recently. Is there a workaround at the moment? It used to be worth paying for but sadly no longer.
    Go into an Inprivate window (or equivalent) and click from there.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    Ummmm: I used to have detailed stats on family size by country, and while that is undoubtedly part of the story, it definitely isn't true for countries like Bangladesh. There you still have 90+% of women married by the time they are 25, and average family sized have collapsed.

    Let me find my stats, because while I'm sure the Spectator data is right about Western Europe / Singapore / Japan (and increasingly China), I'm very sceptical that it's true of the emerging world.
    Is social progress a factor? ie women being empowered to do things other than having and raising children?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    OldBasing said:

    Some Labour people I follow on social media with their ear to the ground seem quite bullish on Mid-Beds (and Tamworth) - alledging a good ground game in both seats - but I'm not sure I have the confidence to place a bet on either. Very large majorities to overturn. Tamworth seems the more significant seat really with General Election implications.

    I'm not convinced on the Lib Dems for Mid Beds - they haven't followed their usual tactics realeasing 'internal polling' numbers throughout the campaign saying it's close.

    So probably leaning Lab gain Tamworth and Con hold Mid Beds.

    More than "Very large majorities to overturn". Mid Beds would be the largest-ever Westminster majority overturned at a by-election*, if the Tories lose.

    * Though I don't know of any majority larger than 24,664 overturned at a general election either. Blair didn't manage it in 1997 and none of SLab's losses in 2015 had majorities that big, IIRC. It's possible that 1945 or 1931 might have thrown up an extreme case though.
    Tiv and Hon 24,239
    Richmond Park 23,015
    Christchurch 23,015 (apparently a tie???)
    North Shropshire 22,949

    So yes it would be a new record by a few hundred.

    Christchurch looks like the one to beat 23,015 overturned and new majority of 16,427.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_by-election_records
    The record pre-Tiverton & Honiton was Liverpool Wavertree (1935), where the 1931 Tory majority was 23,972.
    The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    I've read the article now: and I am totally on board with the core message, that depopulation and greying are massively more serious issues than overpopulation.

    That said, I don't see the data in there about the worldwide drop in birthrates being principally due to childless women. Sure: it's a significant part of the equation in the developed world, but a negligible part in much of the developing world.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    Taz said:

    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    Why on earth would protesters want to prevent that film being shown ? Did it say ?
    I think because the view of the protestors was that it was bad for the environment to have children and that a film saying fewer children were being had anyway might make people less reluctant to have children of their own.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    That is consistent with an interesting column some time ago in the Guardian. Lots of women waiting to have children until they've found Mr. Right and then running out of time.

    Two possible solutions occur to me. Encourage women to settle for Mr. Not Awful, or to have children while single.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    maxh said:

    maxh said:

    Israeli Government going very hard on BBC accusing it of blood libel. They have a point. The misreporting, and the usual suspects sounding off , heightened tensions still further and undermined Bidens peace initiative. Islamic Jihad must be delighted. If the rocket had hit its intended target, and killed a few hundred Jews, it would have been shrugged off, with a bit of cautionary advice to the Israelis not to overreact.

    I had to re-Google blood libel to check I understood it after reading this.

    The BBC might have poorly reported the hospital attack, but how does that link to the blood libel claims?

    Genuine question.
    Dunno. Not an expert. But I imagine the charge that they had targeted a hospital might have somewhat infuriated them.
    But hang on. Rereading your post you say ‘they have a point’. What’s their point? They might be right to be infuriated but you are specifically talking about the blood libel claim.
    Nope. I simply thought they had a point which justified their being so angry. However thinking about it, the implication of the charge was that they had the blood of the hospital victims on their hands. Which could be seen as a "blood libel".
    Blood libel is a very specific thing, not shorthand for an accusation of blood on their hands.
    You're very likely right. I don't necessarily endorse the charge. As it happens I'm a fan of the Beeb. But I do think the Israelis have a right to be very very angry. The consequences of misinformation about something like that are very grave indeed.
    The fact this is being discussed at such a high level suggests that, despite its many critics, the BBC matters very much indeed in global terms. Looked at from another planet this is all about a bit of news coverage by a country far away of no relevance to the middle east which is exactly one of several thousand news outlets across the world covering the story.
  • Narrow win for Labour, LDs third.
    Weather is better than expected and voting was brisk. Saw both Lab and LD GOTV, no sign of Cons.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    Ummmm: I used to have detailed stats on family size by country, and while that is undoubtedly part of the story, it definitely isn't true for countries like Bangladesh. There you still have 90+% of women married by the time they are 25, and average family sized have collapsed.

    Let me find my stats, because while I'm sure the Spectator data is right about Western Europe / Singapore / Japan (and increasingly China), I'm very sceptical that it's true of the emerging world.
    He doesn't mention Bangladesh, but he does mention India. But I'd be interested to see your stats; I found it interesting because it didn't fit what I thought were the facts.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    Nigelb said:

    "Solar is set to overpower fossil fuels as the dominant electricity source globally by 2050, according to a new study. [...] Solar power is set to dominate global electricity markets within the next few decades, and may have already reached an “irreversible tipping point,” according to a study published this week in Nature Communications. The study finds that solar adoption will continue apace barring any major policy shifts geared at disrupting it."
    https://twitter.com/patrickc/status/1714988564801519937

    In other words it will continue until people stop flinging subsidies at it. That's hardly surprising. Powering the world with blancmange would be winning the energy race if it was subsidised as we do with favoured renewables.
    If you borrow £1,000 to put solar panels on your roof in England, they will reduce your electricity bill by about £180-200/year.

    And that purchase involves exactly zero subsidies.

    That's an 18-20% annual tax free return.

    The vast majority of residential and commercial solar installations these days are done without subsidy.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348
    edited October 2023
    Taz said:

    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    Why on earth would protesters want to prevent that film being shown ? Did it say ?
    No doubt, someone was "triggered" by it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,624
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    I've read the article now: and I am totally on board with the core message, that depopulation and greying are massively more serious issues than overpopulation.

    That said, I don't see the data in there about the worldwide drop in birthrates being principally due to childless women. Sure: it's a significant part of the equation in the developed world, but a negligible part in much of the developing world.
    There are surely two largely independent phenomena: the decline in family sizes in the developing world due to the spread of industrial modernity, and the decline in family formation in the developed world, for a variety of reasons that need explanation.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    That is consistent with an interesting column some time ago in the Guardian. Lots of women waiting to have children until they've found Mr. Right and then running out of time.

    Two possible solutions occur to me. Encourage women to settle for Mr. Not Awful, or to have children while single.
    Two demand-side measures. How about a supply-side one?

    Encourage men to be more charming.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,073
    edited October 2023
    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    And as if by magic...

    Non-paywall version
    https://archive.ph/KTVD

    The film
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6s8QlIGanA (full movie)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2mSKhA4Y_s (trailer)
    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt24075174/ (IMDB)
    https://nitter.net/StephenJShaw/status/1666191442333532160 (Author twitter)

    The protest
    https://www.varsity.co.uk/news/25512 (It's antifeminist!)
    https://www.varsity.co.uk/science/25496 (Jeez Cambridge, enough of the antiwork stuff already!)
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Mid Beds: I'm all green (thanks to early buys of Lab and Con, which I've traded out) but I 'invested' some of that profit in Lab at 3.5 yesterday.
    Haven't yet traded out again, so I guess I'm backing Lab. They were value at 3.5, for sure. I have been reasonably impressed by what I've seen of the Con candidate - including videos he was releasing of his canvassing before the by election was officially on, so I may yet trade out again.

    So, actual prediction: Con. But I don't fancy them at under evens as at present - I see it tight between Con and Lab. Have however traded out Lab now.
    Playing it like a violin there. Hats off.
    There's a reason I'm not mentioning Tamworth! :wink:

    (Thought I had a trading bet there, expecting the odds to tighten on Con at some point, but the market has been stubbornly of the view it's a Labour win. Mid Beds covers the potential loss though and, who knows, if the Blues do come through then I'll be sitting on some extra fortuitous profit.)
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    Good evening from Chateau Vartsikhe in the vineyards South of Kutaisi.

    After my stunningly successful prediction of a narrow result in Rutherglen I’m doubling down on that predictive genius with the following:

    Con: 32%
    Lab: 30%
    LD: 26%
    Ind: 8%
    Other: 4%
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    Ummmm: I used to have detailed stats on family size by country, and while that is undoubtedly part of the story, it definitely isn't true for countries like Bangladesh. There you still have 90+% of women married by the time they are 25, and average family sized have collapsed.

    Let me find my stats, because while I'm sure the Spectator data is right about Western Europe / Singapore / Japan (and increasingly China), I'm very sceptical that it's true of the emerging world.
    He doesn't mention Bangladesh, but he does mention India. But I'd be interested to see your stats; I found it interesting because it didn't fit what I thought were the facts.
    The WHO has incredibly detailed data tables on family sizes. And, I'm sure the number of childless women is growing in places as education levels rise and places urbanize. (When you live in a shantytown in Mumbai, then babies take up an awful lot of space.)

    But, if what he was saying was true, then to see declines from 6+ babies per women to 1.5 (as Bangladesh has seen in the last forty years) being principally due to childless women, would require that the 70% of women reached 40 without having a kid, and that's just wildly inaccurate.

    FWIW, I think he's signficantly right about the developed world. But family sizes really are dropping in the developing world. See the Rausing Mind the Gap documentary for details.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    edited October 2023
    The Kraken has flipped*.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/19/sidney-powell-attorney-who-aided-trumps-bid-to-subvert-election-pleads-guilty-00122444

    *Though in Georgia, not DC.
    Should she make a plea deal in the federal case, that might really hole Trump below the waterline.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    That is consistent with an interesting column some time ago in the Guardian. Lots of women waiting to have children until they've found Mr. Right and then running out of time.

    Two possible solutions occur to me. Encourage women to settle for Mr. Not Awful, or to have children while single.
    I don't know about other places, but the UK in large parts presents the appearance of a place running a competition to see how difficult it can make it for people, especially but not only the middle class, to have children before the age of about 43.

    For really spectacular examples try talking to female medics, especially in areas of stellar property prices; female academics are often similarly placed.

    In the long run it is catastrophic, and very sad.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    I've read the article now: and I am totally on board with the core message, that depopulation and greying are massively more serious issues than overpopulation.

    That said, I don't see the data in there about the worldwide drop in birthrates being principally due to childless women. Sure: it's a significant part of the equation in the developed world, but a negligible part in much of the developing world.
    There are surely two largely independent phenomena: the decline in family sizes in the developing world due to the spread of industrial modernity, and the decline in family formation in the developed world, for a variety of reasons that need explanation.
    I think that's exactly right.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    Where couples do have children it is also increasingly just 1 or at most 2, especially in the West.

    Certainly more women put careers first, 50 even 25 years ago many women left work in their early 30s when they had children and never went back, certainly full time and the husband was the main bread winner expecte to have the job and career. Leaving it too late to have children also makes it more difficult.

    Women are also more fussy, apps give them wider choice rather than settling for the guy down the road but at the end of the day there are still only so many men to go round and hence we also have more angry incels too.

    There need to be more tax breaks and transfers between spouses so women who want to stay at home with children can and we could increase child benefits for the first 2 children too
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    "Solar is set to overpower fossil fuels as the dominant electricity source globally by 2050, according to a new study. [...] Solar power is set to dominate global electricity markets within the next few decades, and may have already reached an “irreversible tipping point,” according to a study published this week in Nature Communications. The study finds that solar adoption will continue apace barring any major policy shifts geared at disrupting it."
    https://twitter.com/patrickc/status/1714988564801519937

    In other words it will continue until people stop flinging subsidies at it. That's hardly surprising. Powering the world with blancmange would be winning the energy race if it was subsidised as we do with favoured renewables.
    If you borrow £1,000 to put solar panels on your roof in England, they will reduce your electricity bill by about £180-200/year.

    And that purchase involves exactly zero subsidies.

    That's an 18-20% annual tax free return.

    The vast majority of residential and commercial solar installations these days are done without subsidy.
    That is the thrust of the report - the growth in renewables is irreversible owing to falling prices, but that has implications for both grid design and medium to long term government policy and planning.

    Also, there's a huge, underinvested market opportunity in Africa, if the policy risk can be sorted.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    The Libs are now so long on BX (12) that they are almost worth a saver, lest the unvarnished propaganda we've been subjected to by @theakes all week proves to contain a grain of truth.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Nigelb said:
    That's the second person in the Georgia trials to flip. That is not good news for the Donald.
  • tlg86 said:

    Tories going with a candidate whose surname begins with an A. Being top of the ballot can be worth a few points, but maybe that doesn't apply when there are so many candidates.


    Only really in multi-member constituencies versus fellow candidates of the same party (since people either don't realise they have multiple votes or decide to vote in a two member ward for, say, the independent plus one Tory, in which case they tend to pick the first Tory name on the ballot).

    I'm not aware of any evidence this is mirrored, or at least to any meaningful degree, in elections for a single member.
    https://electionlab.mit.edu/research/ballot-order-effects
    I'd suggest a lot of this is to with the US having elections for relatively minor positions at the same time as major elections. So, if someone comes in to vote Trump or Biden, quite a few people really couldn't give a toss by the time they get to the election for municipal dog catcher.

    One of the findings - "appearing first on the ballot in the 2000 presidential election increased George W. Bush’s vote share by almost 10 percentage points" - is one where I can't get access to the paper, so it may misrepresent the finding but, on the face of it, I'm just calling bullsh1t on it. Indeed, if it's right, Donald Trump can feel justifiably aggrieved that he lost the popular vote to both Biden and Clinton due to this massive effect!
    Quasi-learned semi-commentary (and visa versa)

    > Finding cited "that appearing first on the ballot in the 2000 presidential election increased George W. Bush’s vote share by almost 10 percentage points relative to appearing last" is likely very significantly influenced, by the fact that in many states, ballot order in partisan races is determined by which party's candidate for President, or Governor, or state Secretary of State came in first in the previous election. Meaning that in Republican-leaning states the GOP candidates appear before their Democratic or independent or 3-party contenders, while in Democratic-leaning states the Ds have precedence.

    > As for surmise that candidates for lesser office on American election ballots contribute to the advantage of being first on the ballot, there is some truth to this; however, note that there is also tendency for some voters to skip lower-ballot races, either because they lack (in their own view) sufficient information and/or interest to make choice, OR in nonpartisan races there is no party identifier (thus you can't just vote for the Republican or the Democrat or whatever based just on the info provided on the ballot).

    FYI (and BTW) in Washington State

    > Ballot order for PRIMARY election ballots is determined by lot drawing; while ballot order for GENERAL elections by the number of votes the Top Two primary vote-getters received with the candidate with most votes listed first.

    > California has system whereby the ballot order in primaries is even more randomized, differs from ballot to ballot in same jurisdiction.

    > In number of other states, candidates for primary are listed in the order in which they file or otherwise qualify for the primary ballot.

    My own personal observation is this - ballot order CAN be decisive in very, very, close elections, but in actual practice not so much, because it is only the dumber and/or more cynical voter who just pick the top of the list.

    Interesting real-world examples: primary voting for West Virginia House of Delegates in Kanawha County (Charleston) back when the state's largest county elected (IIRC) 14 on a unified ballot, with a horde of candidates on the primary ballot, of which the top 14 from each major party went on to the general election. Believe the record for the Dem ballot (back when Dems dominated state politics) was over 60. Meaning that the actual ballot paper, which included other offices as well as House of Delegates, was often several feet long!

    Being listed at or near the top did have some advantage . . . but so did being listed at or near the bottom. And primary as well as general-election winners were rarely (IIRC) determined simply by ballot order.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908
    edited October 2023
    algarkirk said:

    Roger said:

    algarkirk said:

    maxh said:

    Israeli Government going very hard on BBC accusing it of blood libel. They have a point. The misreporting, and the usual suspects sounding off , heightened tensions still further and undermined Bidens peace initiative. Islamic Jihad must be delighted. If the rocket had hit its intended target, and killed a few hundred Jews, it would have been shrugged off, with a bit of cautionary advice to the Israelis not to overreact.

    I had to re-Google blood libel to check I understood it after reading this.

    The BBC might have poorly reported the hospital attack, but how does that link to the blood libel claims?

    Genuine question.
    It doesn't. It's bonkers. Israel sometimes tests the patience of its long term liberal minded supporters (including me). The BBC has to be taken over all, not in single sentences or two minutes of hyperbole. The last few days have shown it to be (WRT news and current affairs, loads of other stuff is junk) a fantastic organisation, a good deed in a naughty world and a bastion of the idea of objectivity. These values will always be expressed imperfectly. But compared, say, with the imperfections of Israel they are small.
    With respect I think you may be overlooking the consequences of the misreporting. It's made things even worse. Too many people were too prepared to believe Israel was responsible, possibly due to a subliminal wish to prove to themselves that each side is as bad as the other while they themselves are even-handed and balanced.

    algarkirk said:

    maxh said:

    Israeli Government going very hard on BBC accusing it of blood libel. They have a point. The misreporting, and the usual suspects sounding off , heightened tensions still further and undermined Bidens peace initiative. Islamic Jihad must be delighted. If the rocket had hit its intended target, and killed a few hundred Jews, it would have been shrugged off, with a bit of cautionary advice to the Israelis not to overreact.

    I had to re-Google blood libel to check I understood it after reading this.

    The BBC might have poorly reported the hospital attack, but how does that link to the blood libel claims?

    Genuine question.
    It doesn't. It's bonkers. Israel sometimes tests the patience of its long term liberal minded supporters (including me). The BBC has to be taken over all, not in single sentences or two minutes of hyperbole. The last few days have shown it to be (WRT news and current affairs, loads of other stuff is junk) a fantastic organisation, a good deed in a naughty world and a bastion of the idea of objectivity. These values will always be expressed imperfectly. But compared, say, with the imperfections of Israel they are small.
    With respect I think you may be overlooking the consequences of the misreporting. It's made things even worse. Too many people were too prepared to believe Israel was responsible, possibly due to a subliminal wish to prove to themselves that each side is as bad as the other while they themselves are even-handed and balanced.
    When Gaza is under continuos bombardment from the Israelis it wasn't surprising that ALL the news outlets (Al Jazeerah unlike the BBC have reporters in Gaza City) assumed the bomb was from the Israelis. What's more their history in the area for misinformation is such that even if the Israelis had denied it immediately few in the Arab world would have believed them.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFtE9HMtiOc



    The BBC have reporters in Gaza. And, BTW, Al Jazeera has not distinguished itself over all this. The BBC has tried pretty hard.
    I agree. Best in the World in my opinion. But this time from a different angle......

    https://www.newarab.com/news/bbc-correspondent-resigns-over-israel-gaza-coverage
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    "Solar is set to overpower fossil fuels as the dominant electricity source globally by 2050, according to a new study. [...] Solar power is set to dominate global electricity markets within the next few decades, and may have already reached an “irreversible tipping point,” according to a study published this week in Nature Communications. The study finds that solar adoption will continue apace barring any major policy shifts geared at disrupting it."
    https://twitter.com/patrickc/status/1714988564801519937

    In other words it will continue until people stop flinging subsidies at it. That's hardly surprising. Powering the world with blancmange would be winning the energy race if it was subsidised as we do with favoured renewables.
    If you borrow £1,000 to put solar panels on your roof in England, they will reduce your electricity bill by about £180-200/year.

    And that purchase involves exactly zero subsidies.

    That's an 18-20% annual tax free return.

    The vast majority of residential and commercial solar installations these days are done without subsidy.
    Mm, a whole lot better than fracking as demonstrated on even the most optimal UK sites, too. And the pollution problem is different (original production costs aside). You just clean up the bird crap every now and then.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited October 2023
    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    That is consistent with an interesting column some time ago in the Guardian. Lots of women waiting to have children until they've found Mr. Right and then running out of time.

    Two possible solutions occur to me. Encourage women to settle for Mr. Not Awful, or to have children while single.
    I don't know about other places, but the UK in large parts presents the appearance of a place running a competition to see how difficult it can make it for people, especially but not only the middle class, to have children before the age of about 43.

    For really spectacular examples try talking to female medics, especially in areas of stellar property prices; female academics are often similarly placed.

    In the long run it is catastrophic, and very sad.
    Yes we need more affordable homes to buy but you can have children while renting, 100 years ago most parents rented all their lives
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    That is consistent with an interesting column some time ago in the Guardian. Lots of women waiting to have children until they've found Mr. Right and then running out of time.

    Two possible solutions occur to me. Encourage women to settle for Mr. Not Awful, or to have children while single.
    I don't know about other places, but the UK in large parts presents the appearance of a place running a competition to see how difficult it can make it for people, especially but not only the middle class, to have children before the age of about 43.

    For really spectacular examples try talking to female medics, especially in areas of stellar property prices; female academics are often similarly placed.

    In the long run it is catastrophic, and very sad.
    Yes we need more affordable homes to buy but you can have children while renting, 100 years ago most parents rented all their lives
    And look what happened. They invented the Labour Party. No wonder.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    Ummmm: I used to have detailed stats on family size by country, and while that is undoubtedly part of the story, it definitely isn't true for countries like Bangladesh. There you still have 90+% of women married by the time they are 25, and average family sized have collapsed.

    Let me find my stats, because while I'm sure the Spectator data is right about Western Europe / Singapore / Japan (and increasingly China), I'm very sceptical that it's true of the emerging world.
    He doesn't mention Bangladesh, but he does mention India. But I'd be interested to see your stats; I found it interesting because it didn't fit what I thought were the facts.
    The WHO has incredibly detailed data tables on family sizes. And, I'm sure the number of childless women is growing in places as education levels rise and places urbanize. (When you live in a shantytown in Mumbai, then babies take up an awful lot of space.)

    But, if what he was saying was true, then to see declines from 6+ babies per women to 1.5 (as Bangladesh has seen in the last forty years) being principally due to childless women, would require that the 70% of women reached 40 without having a kid, and that's just wildly inaccurate.

    FWIW, I think he's signficantly right about the developed world. But family sizes really are dropping in the developing world. See the Rausing Mind the Gap documentary for details.
    Not in Africa so much, most African nations have 3-6 children on average per woman
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:
    That's the second person in the Georgia trials to flip. That is not good news for the Donald.
    Whoops-a-daisy. What are the consequences for Trump in GA if he himself is found guilty?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    That is consistent with an interesting column some time ago in the Guardian. Lots of women waiting to have children until they've found Mr. Right and then running out of time.

    Two possible solutions occur to me. Encourage women to settle for Mr. Not Awful, or to have children while single.
    I don't know about other places, but the UK in large parts presents the appearance of a place running a competition to see how difficult it can make it for people, especially but not only the middle class, to have children before the age of about 43.

    For really spectacular examples try talking to female medics, especially in areas of stellar property prices; female academics are often similarly placed.

    In the long run it is catastrophic, and very sad.
    Yes we need more affordable homes to buy but you can have children while renting, 100 years ago most parents rented all their lives
    And look what happened. They invented the Labour Party. No wonder.
    Most rented even 50 years after the first Labour government, only by the 1980s did most own a property
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    Ummmm: I used to have detailed stats on family size by country, and while that is undoubtedly part of the story, it definitely isn't true for countries like Bangladesh. There you still have 90+% of women married by the time they are 25, and average family sized have collapsed.

    Let me find my stats, because while I'm sure the Spectator data is right about Western Europe / Singapore / Japan (and increasingly China), I'm very sceptical that it's true of the emerging world.
    He doesn't mention Bangladesh, but he does mention India. But I'd be interested to see your stats; I found it interesting because it didn't fit what I thought were the facts.
    The WHO has incredibly detailed data tables on family sizes. And, I'm sure the number of childless women is growing in places as education levels rise and places urbanize. (When you live in a shantytown in Mumbai, then babies take up an awful lot of space.)

    But, if what he was saying was true, then to see declines from 6+ babies per women to 1.5 (as Bangladesh has seen in the last forty years) being principally due to childless women, would require that the 70% of women reached 40 without having a kid, and that's just wildly inaccurate.

    FWIW, I think he's signficantly right about the developed world. But family sizes really are dropping in the developing world. See the Rausing Mind the Gap documentary for details.
    Not in Africa so much, most African nations have 3-6 children on average per woman
    Almost like things are different in different parts of the world. Some places have over population, some under...both can cause issues.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    Ummmm: I used to have detailed stats on family size by country, and while that is undoubtedly part of the story, it definitely isn't true for countries like Bangladesh. There you still have 90+% of women married by the time they are 25, and average family sized have collapsed.

    Let me find my stats, because while I'm sure the Spectator data is right about Western Europe / Singapore / Japan (and increasingly China), I'm very sceptical that it's true of the emerging world.
    He doesn't mention Bangladesh, but he does mention India. But I'd be interested to see your stats; I found it interesting because it didn't fit what I thought were the facts.
    The WHO has incredibly detailed data tables on family sizes. And, I'm sure the number of childless women is growing in places as education levels rise and places urbanize. (When you live in a shantytown in Mumbai, then babies take up an awful lot of space.)

    But, if what he was saying was true, then to see declines from 6+ babies per women to 1.5 (as Bangladesh has seen in the last forty years) being principally due to childless women, would require that the 70% of women reached 40 without having a kid, and that's just wildly inaccurate.

    FWIW, I think he's signficantly right about the developed world. But family sizes really are dropping in the developing world. See the Rausing Mind the Gap documentary for details.
    Not in Africa so much, most African nations have 3-6 children on average per woman
    Yes, but they used to be even higher.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,073
    @Taz , @algarkirk, I refer you to my reply to Cookie here: https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4576957/#Comment_4576957

    The Digested, digested: The film is "Birthgap - Childless World (part 1)" directed by Stephen J Shaw. The protestors considered the film's core message (women are leaving having a child too late with deleritous results) as antifeminist. People divided on culture war lines, arguments were had, the film was cancelled and then shown, nobody died.

    Ten Words Or Less: PEOPLE ARE UPSET.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    That is consistent with an interesting column some time ago in the Guardian. Lots of women waiting to have children until they've found Mr. Right and then running out of time.

    Two possible solutions occur to me. Encourage women to settle for Mr. Not Awful, or to have children while single.
    I don't know about other places, but the UK in large parts presents the appearance of a place running a competition to see how difficult it can make it for people, especially but not only the middle class, to have children before the age of about 43.

    For really spectacular examples try talking to female medics, especially in areas of stellar property prices; female academics are often similarly placed.

    In the long run it is catastrophic, and very sad.
    Yes we need more affordable homes to buy but you can have children while renting, 100 years ago most parents rented all their lives
    And look what happened. They invented the Labour Party. No wonder.
    Most rented even 50 years after the first Labour government, only by the 1980s did most own a property
    But from far fewer private landlords (until Mrs T).
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    That is consistent with an interesting column some time ago in the Guardian. Lots of women waiting to have children until they've found Mr. Right and then running out of time.

    Two possible solutions occur to me. Encourage women to settle for Mr. Not Awful, or to have children while single.
    I don't know about other places, but the UK in large parts presents the appearance of a place running a competition to see how difficult it can make it for people, especially but not only the middle class, to have children before the age of about 43.

    For really spectacular examples try talking to female medics, especially in areas of stellar property prices; female academics are often similarly placed.

    In the long run it is catastrophic, and very sad.
    You may be interested in this:

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2022/01/02/maybe-baby-population-politics-part-2/

    Anecdotes in articles such as this one (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/oct/13/it-is-devastating-the-millennials-who-would-love-to-have-kids-but-cant-afford-a-family) in the Guardian give the impression that financial pressures are reducing the fertility rate among those in professional occupations. However, data from the ONS suggests that the decreases in fertility rates between 2014 and 2019 were larger among those in lower supervisory, technical and (semi-) routine occupations.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    edited October 2023
    This is smart policy making, though Biden is unlikely to derive any political credit from it in the short term.

    Biden eases sanctions on Venezuelan oil and Republicans howl
    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/18/biden-venezuela-oil-sanctions-nicolas-maduro-00121779
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,744

    The Libs are now so long on BX (12) that they are almost worth a saver, lest the unvarnished propaganda we've been subjected to by @theakes all week proves to contain a grain of truth.

    I see no good evidenced-based reason why the Lib Dems should go out so far so fast today. Even if someone has (very naughtily) let on about postal vote returns, these are difficult to verify with any accuracy as they're all done upside-down and there's no idea about relative (or indeed absolute) turnout until the count, so such a leak would be unreliable as well as illegal.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355

    Cookie said:

    Really interesting piece here on demographics which it is worth ferkling behind the paywall for:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-for-falling-birth-rates/

    TLDR: Families aren't, actually, getting smaller worldwide. Where families exist, they are staying roughly the same size. What's happening is a massive increase in childlessness - i.e. people not having children at all. Half of women who reach 30 childless will never have children.
    The author says this is involuntary - these women want children but are not having them. Personally I am not sure this is adequately proven. But nevertheless, the overall finding is significant.
    Almost in passing, it's mentioned that protestors at Cambridge University prevented a film to this effect being shown. Of course.

    That is consistent with an interesting column some time ago in the Guardian. Lots of women waiting to have children until they've found Mr. Right and then running out of time.

    Two possible solutions occur to me. Encourage women to settle for Mr. Not Awful, or to have children while single.
    Two demand-side measures. How about a supply-side one?

    Encourage men to be more charming.
    There are strong incentives for men to be charming already - getting laid, obviously.

    That incentive doesn't necessarily create men who want to settle down and have a family.
This discussion has been closed.