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Sunak’s ratings fall after his big week – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,161
edited October 2023 in General
Sunak’s ratings fall after his big week – politicalbetting.com

Rishi Sunak's approval rating is -16%.Rishi Sunak Approval Rating (8 October):Disapprove: 46% (+5)Approve: 30% (-1)Net: -16% (-6)Changes +/- 1 Octoberhttps://t.co/nUfSfyQSTY pic.twitter.com/IXTnazQPrX

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Comments

  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited October 2023
    Good morning all.

    Sunak has no understanding of normal people and no ability to communicate with them.

    Hopeless.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Second like Sunak
  • nico679 said:

    Sunak will be hoping that the news coverage stays firmly on Israel . Anything that takes attention away from domestic issues could help in the two by-elections coming up .

    Starmers big speech tomorrow does look going by the leaks to include some large scale plans in terms of new towns. It does though look to get drowned out by the Israeli coverage .

    Fantastic news if Starmer is planning on some large scale new towns.

    Especially if he's planning on the appropriate infrastructure of new motorways to link those new towns to the rest of the country.

    I won't be holding my breath though.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    edited October 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Rishi Sunak doing a 'PM Connect' event and Jeremy Vine interview today is not going down terribly well with Labour folk holding their conference in Liverpool.

    One says: "It feels a bit like the kid at someone else's party saying 'look at me'."

    https://twitter.com/KevinASchofield/status/1711284622670151973

    Heir to Brown once more.

    That's about the same stunt that Brown tried during the Tory Conference before he chickened out of the election that never was after a marginal poll showed how badly he might do in it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    Nigelb said:

    Rishi Sunak doing a 'PM Connect' event and Jeremy Vine interview today is not going down terribly well with Labour folk holding their conference in Liverpool.

    One says: "It feels a bit like the kid at someone else's party saying 'look at me'."

    https://twitter.com/KevinASchofield/status/1711284622670151973

    Heir to Brown once more.

    That's about the same stunt that Brown tried during the Tory Conference before he chickened out of the election that never was after a marginal poll showed how badly he might do in it.
    Good spot; I'd forgotten that.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Meanwhile, in more important news, Bangladesh have won the toss and are bowling first.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    nico679 said:

    Sunak will be hoping that the news coverage stays firmly on Israel . Anything that takes attention away from domestic issues could help in the two by-elections coming up .

    Starmers big speech tomorrow does look going by the leaks to include some large scale plans in terms of new towns. It does though look to get drowned out by the Israeli coverage .

    Fantastic news if Starmer is planning on some large scale new towns.

    Especially if he's planning on the appropriate infrastructure of new motorways to link those new towns to the rest of the country.

    I won't be holding my breath though.
    Again, it's not about building houses.

    It's about building communities.

    Building houses means you get homes, but they're cr@p to live in. Building communities means you build houses in areas people want to live in, with the facilities they need. And that requires infrastructure, both large and small.

    S106 is a good idea, but I fear it has let governments - both local and national - to just chuck stuff onto developer's backs. Building communities requires more than can be got from developers, and that means governments need to pay.

    Cramming more houses onto smaller plots, with f-all facilities, just leads to problems in a decade or two.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    edited October 2023

    nico679 said:

    Sunak will be hoping that the news coverage stays firmly on Israel . Anything that takes attention away from domestic issues could help in the two by-elections coming up .

    Starmers big speech tomorrow does look going by the leaks to include some large scale plans in terms of new towns. It does though look to get drowned out by the Israeli coverage .

    Fantastic news if Starmer is planning on some large scale new towns.

    Especially if he's planning on the appropriate infrastructure of new motorways to link those new towns to the rest of the country.

    I won't be holding my breath though.
    Again, it's not about building houses.

    It's about building communities.

    Building houses means you get homes, but they're cr@p to live in. Building communities means you build houses in areas people want to live in, with the facilities they need. And that requires infrastructure, both large and small.

    S106 is a good idea, but I fear it has let governments - both local and national - to just chuck stuff onto developer's backs. Building communities requires more than can be got from developers, and that means governments need to pay.

    Cramming more houses onto smaller plots, with f-all facilities, just leads to problems in a decade or two.
    s106 is a crap idea.

    If there's a shortage of homes, schools, hospitals etc then the responsible thing to do is seek an increase of each.

    Not say that you can't have a new hospital unless the NHS pays for new schools and homes too.
    Nor that you can't have a new school unless the schools budget pays for new hospitals and homes too.
    Nor say that you can't have a new home unless those who need a new home alone pay for a hospital and school too.

    Its the entire taxpayers responsibility to pay for schools and hospitals, not new homes alone. Houses don't need schools, children do.

    This current failed attitude is why we never get any investment in anything.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    (FPT) in further response to Cummings' nonsense.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-10/israel-hamas-conflict-was-a-test-for-musk-s-x-and-it-failed
    ...Mike Rothschild, a conspiracy theory researcher who has studied viral falsehoods on social media, said that news of the attack on Israel was “the first real test of Elon Musk’s version of Twitter, and it failed spectacularly.”

    X, under Musk’s ownership since October 2022, has made changes to its content safety policies, with the consequences now glaringly apparent in this moment of geopolitical crisis, researchers said. Over the past year, the company loosened its platform’s rules, cut trust-and-safety employees after previously saying it would expand the team, reinstated once-banned accounts and allowed people to pay for a checkmark on the social network. Though falsehoods about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict have spread on social media platforms across the internet, the researchers said the effect on X stood out as false posts became unavoidable.

    “It's now almost impossible to tell what's a fact, what's a rumor, what's a conspiracy theory, and what's trolling,” Rothschild said. “Musk's changes haven't just made X useless during a time of crisis. They've made it actively worse."..



  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    As an example, when they built my 'village' (actually a town now), there was no public transport aside from a bus. The developers built a short section of dual carriageway onto the A428, which HA later grudgigly extended to meet the existing dual carriageway near Cambridge.

    For public transport, we still rely on busses, and are at the whim of Stagecoach (who have withdrawn many of the services, and cut the routes through the village), and Whippet, who are good but small. We have no railway, no tram,; not even a good cycle route to Cambridge.

    Any new town should have excellent transport links. Nearby, the new Northstowe should have the misguided bus link into Cambridge (along an old railway line, natch). Waterbeach New Town is going to be served by moving the existing station a short distance north. All these are paid for by the council, not developers.

    We cannot - and must not - so new towns on the cheap.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,805
    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, in more important news, Bangladesh have won the toss and are bowling first.

    Far too many dot balls in the power play. Not a good start.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,137
    Humor for the day:


  • As an example, when they built my 'village' (actually a town now), there was no public transport aside from a bus. The developers built a short section of dual carriageway onto the A428, which HA later grudgigly extended to meet the existing dual carriageway near Cambridge.

    For public transport, we still rely on busses, and are at the whim of Stagecoach (who have withdrawn many of the services, and cut the routes through the village), and Whippet, who are good but small. We have no railway, no tram,; not even a good cycle route to Cambridge.

    Any new town should have excellent transport links. Nearby, the new Northstowe should have the misguided bus link into Cambridge (along an old railway line, natch). Waterbeach New Town is going to be served by moving the existing station a short distance north. All these are paid for by the council, not developers.

    We cannot - and must not - so new towns on the cheap.

    Absolutely any new towns should have excellent transport links, I said there should be new motorways.

    But that should not be the "developers" responsibility.

    If you want community infrastructure, then it is the responsibility of the entire community, the entire country, to pay for that - not just pile the burden on those who get a new house all alone while those who live in secure housing that was built years ago abscond from any responsibilities.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Humor for the day:


    I don't get it.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,404

    As an example, when they built my 'village' (actually a town now), there was no public transport aside from a bus. The developers built a short section of dual carriageway onto the A428, which HA later grudgigly extended to meet the existing dual carriageway near Cambridge.

    For public transport, we still rely on busses, and are at the whim of Stagecoach (who have withdrawn many of the services, and cut the routes through the village), and Whippet, who are good but small. We have no railway, no tram,; not even a good cycle route to Cambridge.

    Any new town should have excellent transport links. Nearby, the new Northstowe should have the misguided bus link into Cambridge (along an old railway line, natch). Waterbeach New Town is going to be served by moving the existing station a short distance north. All these are paid for by the council, not developers.

    We cannot - and must not - so new towns on the cheap.

    Absolutely any new towns should have excellent transport links, I said there should be new motorways.

    But that should not be the "developers" responsibility.

    If you want community infrastructure, then it is the responsibility of the entire community, the entire country, to pay for that - not just pile the burden on those who get a new house all alone while those who live in secure housing that was built years ago abscond from any responsibilities.
    If Starmer does actually build new houses he deserves all the support he can get.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,805

    rcs1000 said:

    Humor for the day:


    I don't get it.
    They are some else’s fingers.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited October 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning all.

    Sunak has no understanding of normal people and no ability to communicate with them.

    Hopeless.

    Especially given he's up against the true master of empathy, Sir Keir Starmer. A man who oozes charm from every pore. A man who lights up every room he walks in to.
    Sunak was beaten by a candidate who in turn was beaten by a lettuce

    Any sentient being is an improvement on him
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,371
    Heathener said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning all.

    Sunak has no understanding of normal people and no ability to communicate with them.

    Hopeless.

    Especially given he's up against the true master of empathy, Sir Keir Starmer. A man who oozes charm from every pore. A man who lights up every room he walks in to.
    Sunak was beaten by a candidate who in turn was beaten by a lettuce

    Any sentient being is an improvement on him
    Now, hang on. He's better than Michael Fabricant, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Richard Burgon, Laura Pid...oh, hold on, you did say 'sentient.' As you were.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited October 2023
    Someone close to me has had tea with Keir Starmer and said he was great: relaxed, easy to get on with, and funny.

    The issue is more that people don't yet see Starmer. If my friend is right then it will come through during the GE campaign.

    What's abundantly clear to all of us who actually live in this country Robert @rcs1000 is that the more we see of Sunak, the worse he appears.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,590
    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning all.

    Sunak has no understanding of normal people and no ability to communicate with them.

    Hopeless.

    Especially given he's up against the true master of empathy, Sir Keir Starmer. A man who oozes charm from every pore. A man who lights up every room he walks in to.
    Sunak was beaten by a candidate who in turn was beaten by a lettuce

    Any sentient being is an improvement on him
    Now, hang on. He's better than Michael Fabricant, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Richard Burgon, Laura Pid...oh, hold on, you did say 'sentient.' As you were.
    Cometh the hour, cometh the Michael Fabricant..
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,371
    mwadams said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning all.

    Sunak has no understanding of normal people and no ability to communicate with them.

    Hopeless.

    Especially given he's up against the true master of empathy, Sir Keir Starmer. A man who oozes charm from every pore. A man who lights up every room he walks in to.
    Sunak was beaten by a candidate who in turn was beaten by a lettuce

    Any sentient being is an improvement on him
    Now, hang on. He's better than Michael Fabricant, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Richard Burgon, Laura Pid...oh, hold on, you did say 'sentient.' As you were.
    Cometh the hour, cometh the Michael Fabricant..
    The idea of Michael Fabricant coming is disturbing, but I suppose he is a great tosser.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, in more important news, Bangladesh have won the toss and are bowling first.

    Far too many dot balls in the power play. Not a good start.
    Thankfully picked up the run rate in the last three overs.

    Cricket is much less divisive than Israel and Palestine.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,590
    ydoethur said:

    mwadams said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning all.

    Sunak has no understanding of normal people and no ability to communicate with them.

    Hopeless.

    Especially given he's up against the true master of empathy, Sir Keir Starmer. A man who oozes charm from every pore. A man who lights up every room he walks in to.
    Sunak was beaten by a candidate who in turn was beaten by a lettuce

    Any sentient being is an improvement on him
    Now, hang on. He's better than Michael Fabricant, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Richard Burgon, Laura Pid...oh, hold on, you did say 'sentient.' As you were.
    Cometh the hour, cometh the Michael Fabricant..
    The idea of Michael Fabricant coming is disturbing, but I suppose he is a great tosser.
    One of the greatest in a strong field.
  • ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning all.

    Sunak has no understanding of normal people and no ability to communicate with them.

    Hopeless.

    Especially given he's up against the true master of empathy, Sir Keir Starmer. A man who oozes charm from every pore. A man who lights up every room he walks in to.
    Sunak was beaten by a candidate who in turn was beaten by a lettuce

    Any sentient being is an improvement on him
    Now, hang on. He's better than Michael Fabricant, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Richard Burgon, Laura Pid...oh, hold on, you did say 'sentient.' As you were.
    As we are doing jokes, a reminder of Angela Rayner's quip that the Prime Minister has failed to provide his Whatsapp messages to the Covid inquiry, and Jacob Rees-Mogg has yet to hand over his carrier pigeon.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,371

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning all.

    Sunak has no understanding of normal people and no ability to communicate with them.

    Hopeless.

    Especially given he's up against the true master of empathy, Sir Keir Starmer. A man who oozes charm from every pore. A man who lights up every room he walks in to.
    Sunak was beaten by a candidate who in turn was beaten by a lettuce

    Any sentient being is an improvement on him
    Now, hang on. He's better than Michael Fabricant, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Richard Burgon, Laura Pid...oh, hold on, you did say 'sentient.' As you were.
    As we are doing jokes, a reminder of Angela Rayner's quip that the Prime Minister has failed to provide his Whatsapp messages to the Covid inquiry, and Jacob Rees-Mogg has yet to hand over his carrier pigeon.
    I was going to suggest it was called Speckled Jim, but then I realise I was doing General Melchett a disservice.
  • ICYMI the Mirror ran a story last week about West Indies soldiers in the First World War, including a future Prime Minister of Jamaica. Wreaths will be laid at various sites this week (and last) but, well, there are other wars in the news.

    Caribbean war heroes who fought for Britain - only to face racism and execution
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/caribbean-war-heroes-who-fought-31097062

    British West India Regiments Heritage Trust on Facebook
    https://www.facebook.com/BWIRHT/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    edited October 2023

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning all.

    Sunak has no understanding of normal people and no ability to communicate with them.

    Hopeless.

    Especially given he's up against the true master of empathy, Sir Keir Starmer. A man who oozes charm from every pore. A man who lights up every room he walks in to.
    Sunak was beaten by a candidate who in turn was beaten by a lettuce

    Any sentient being is an improvement on him
    Now, hang on. He's better than Michael Fabricant, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Richard Burgon, Laura Pid...oh, hold on, you did say 'sentient.' As you were.
    As we are doing jokes, a reminder of Angela Rayner's quip that the Prime Minister has failed to provide his Whatsapp messages to the Covid inquiry, and Jacob Rees-Mogg has yet to hand over his carrier pigeon.
    So preferring to making a joke, when she could have actually made a good political point about the PM and his record-keeping?

    She comes across as a comedian, rather than a serious politician. Even if the joke got a bunch of laughs from the hall, she isn’t convincing swing voters that she’s wanting to be a senior member of the next government. If they wanted a comic, there’s plenty of Labour-supporting professionals they could have hired to make the same joke.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,137
    Heathener said:

    Someone close to me has had tea with Keir Starmer and said he was great: relaxed, easy to get on with, and funny.

    The issue is more that people don't yet see Starmer. If my friend is right then it will come through during the GE campaign.

    What's abundantly clear to all of us who actually live in this country Robert @rcs1000 is that the more we see of Sunak, the worse he appears.

    It's great the way you addressed my point.

    Oh. Wait.

    No you didn't.
  • nico679 said:

    Sunak will be hoping that the news coverage stays firmly on Israel . Anything that takes attention away from domestic issues could help in the two by-elections coming up .

    Starmers big speech tomorrow does look going by the leaks to include some large scale plans in terms of new towns. It does though look to get drowned out by the Israeli coverage .

    Fantastic news if Starmer is planning on some large scale new towns.

    Especially if he's planning on the appropriate infrastructure of new motorways to link those new towns to the rest of the country.

    I won't be holding my breath though.
    One of the weekend briefings said that the new towns will be centred around railway stations, and cited East-West Rail as an example.

    As someone who lives in a compact town centred around a railway station (I suspect we have among the highest rail journeys:population ratios anywhere in the country) I think this is a pretty good idea.
    It shouldn't be either/or, it should be both.

    Warrington is from the last generation of "new towns" and has 2 major railway links, both to Manchester and Liverpool, and to London and Edinburgh. It also has the M6, M56 and the M62.

    Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good enough for now, the absence of new infrastructure shouldn't be allowed to stand in the way of new homes. But far, far better is to build the infrastructure.

    Don't just assume everyone uses railways, or cars, people use a mix so get all involved.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Bairstow and Malan putting up 98 between them in 15ovs. Looks like we might actually get a decent score today, close to 400 if we can keep the wickets in check.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    edited October 2023
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning all.

    Sunak has no understanding of normal people and no ability to communicate with them.

    Hopeless.

    Especially given he's up against the true master of empathy, Sir Keir Starmer. A man who oozes charm from every pore. A man who lights up every room he walks in to.
    Sunak was beaten by a candidate who in turn was beaten by a lettuce

    Any sentient being is an improvement on him
    Now, hang on. He's better than Michael Fabricant, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Richard Burgon, Laura Pid...oh, hold on, you did say 'sentient.' As you were.
    As we are doing jokes, a reminder of Angela Rayner's quip that the Prime Minister has failed to provide his Whatsapp messages to the Covid inquiry, and Jacob Rees-Mogg has yet to hand over his carrier pigeon.
    So preferring to making a joke, when she could have actually made a good political point about the PM and his record-keeping?

    She comes across as a comedian, rather than a serious politician. Even if the joke got a bunch of laughs from the hall, she isn’t convincing swing voters that she’s wanting to be a senior member of the next government. If they wanted a comic, there’s plenty of Labour-supporting professionals they could have hired to make the same joke.
    She was just demonstrating that you don't have to flirt with the sub justice rules to make a crack about a political opponent.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Humor for the day:


    "Humor, it is a difficult concept. It is not logical."
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited October 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    Someone close to me has had tea with Keir Starmer and said he was great: relaxed, easy to get on with, and funny.

    The issue is more that people don't yet see Starmer. If my friend is right then it will come through during the GE campaign.

    What's abundantly clear to all of us who actually live in this country Robert @rcs1000 is that the more we see of Sunak, the worse he appears.

    It's great the way you addressed my point.

    Oh. Wait.

    No you didn't.
    I did actually but I'm sorry if it was too subtle. To be more direct for you: Starmer is actually personable, has empathy and charm, and will attract voters but because he has received a lot less media exposure, voters haven't yet had the opportunity to see this about him. Unlike Sunak, who does the opposite (the whole point of @TSE 's thread), Starmer may well, if this is correct, see an improvement in his ratings when we get deep into the campaign. I suspect this will be the case. Something similar happened with Nick Clegg: largely unknown until the tv debates.

    That's the theory but if you wish to continue being unnecessarily snide (probably not your finest post), I shall just leave you to it.
  • Slumming it in "Sydney" this week :lol:


  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248

    Heathener said:

    Good morning all.

    Sunak has no understanding of normal people and no ability to communicate with them.

    Hopeless.

    Ah give over. After his man of the people photo? Hard at work in the people’s priorities?

    I don’t know about you but when I am on my private jet I always annotate important documents without taking the top off my pen.

    Remoaners will undoubtedly remember his comedic display trying to pay for fuel and point to his inability to use a pen and wonder what planet he lives on. But they are wrong wrong wrong.
    Now you understand why Prince Charles gets angry about pens.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    25 Russian tanks taken out by Ukraine over the weekend, including one of the new £4m T-90 models.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/09/ukraine-russia-war-live-putin-shelling-zelensky-latest/

    The difference between the Soviet-era tanks and the Western models that the Ukranians now have, is that the Soviet tanks get blown to bits by a single hit on them, often with loss of life, thanks to the way they’re constructed with the ammunition under the barrel; whereas the Western tanks are designed to be, and often are, repairable after being hit by artillery fire, and the crew can usually escape.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    .

    nico679 said:

    Sunak will be hoping that the news coverage stays firmly on Israel . Anything that takes attention away from domestic issues could help in the two by-elections coming up .

    Starmers big speech tomorrow does look going by the leaks to include some large scale plans in terms of new towns. It does though look to get drowned out by the Israeli coverage .

    Fantastic news if Starmer is planning on some large scale new towns.

    Especially if he's planning on the appropriate infrastructure of new motorways to link those new towns to the rest of the country.

    I won't be holding my breath though.
    One of the weekend briefings said that the new towns will be centred around railway stations, and cited East-West Rail as an example.

    As someone who lives in a compact town centred around a railway station (I suspect we have among the highest rail journeys:population ratios anywhere in the country) I think this is a pretty good idea.
    The briefings also explicitly refer to local authorities hanging on to the planning gain from compulsory purchases, to help fund services to the new towns.

    It's very far from the worst thought out policies we've seen in recent years.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    Slumming it in "Sydney" this week :lol:


    What a lovely opera house.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,241

    nico679 said:

    Sunak will be hoping that the news coverage stays firmly on Israel . Anything that takes attention away from domestic issues could help in the two by-elections coming up .

    Starmers big speech tomorrow does look going by the leaks to include some large scale plans in terms of new towns. It does though look to get drowned out by the Israeli coverage .

    Fantastic news if Starmer is planning on some large scale new towns.

    Especially if he's planning on the appropriate infrastructure of new motorways to link those new towns to the rest of the country.

    I won't be holding my breath though.
    One of the weekend briefings said that the new towns will be centred around railway stations, and cited East-West Rail as an example.

    As someone who lives in a compact town centred around a railway station (I suspect we have among the highest rail
    journeys:population ratios anywhere in the
    country) I think this is a pretty good idea.
    But that’s flawed analytically

    You have decided it’s a good idea to live in a town centred around a railway station. This announcement validates your choice. Therefore you think it’s a good idea

    (Not commenting on the substance of urban planning)

  • Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning all.

    Sunak has no understanding of normal people and no ability to communicate with them.

    Hopeless.

    Especially given he's up against the true master of empathy, Sir Keir Starmer. A man who oozes charm from every pore. A man who lights up every room he walks in to.
    Sunak was beaten by a candidate who in turn was beaten by a lettuce

    Any sentient being is an improvement on him
    Now, hang on. He's better than Michael Fabricant, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Richard Burgon, Laura Pid...oh, hold on, you did say 'sentient.' As you were.
    As we are doing jokes, a reminder of Angela Rayner's quip that the Prime Minister has failed to provide his Whatsapp messages to the Covid inquiry, and Jacob Rees-Mogg has yet to hand over his carrier pigeon.
    So preferring to making a joke, when she could have actually made a good political point about the PM and his record-keeping?

    She comes across as a comedian, rather than a serious politician. Even if the joke got a bunch of laughs from the hall, she isn’t convincing swing voters that she’s wanting to be a senior member of the next government. If they wanted a comic, there’s plenty of Labour-supporting professionals they could have hired to make the same joke.
    Rayner did make the point and it is normal for speeches to be leavened by humour, especially on the opening day.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning all.

    Sunak has no understanding of normal people and no ability to communicate with them.

    Hopeless.

    Especially given he's up against the true master of empathy, Sir Keir Starmer. A man who oozes charm from every pore. A man who lights up every room he walks in to.
    If that's the worst people have to say about him, he should be fine.
    He might completely lack any charisma genes, but he doesn't appear utterly out of touch.

    And his communication skills, in terms of messaging coherence, are much superior to Sunak's.

    The "good enough" assessment probably applies.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454

    Slumming it in "Sydney" this week :lol:


    What are you doing in the Toon?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    Someone close to me has had tea with Keir Starmer and said he was great: relaxed, easy to get on with, and funny.

    The issue is more that people don't yet see Starmer. If my friend is right then it will come through during the GE campaign.

    What's abundantly clear to all of us who actually live in this country Robert @rcs1000 is that the more we see of Sunak, the worse he appears.

    It's great the way you addressed my point.

    Oh. Wait.

    No you didn't.
    I would also suggest that one-to-one interaction is not evidence of the mass appeal or as my father used to joke “sex repeal”.

    Plenty of politicians are/were very different people on the one to one level. The most extreme case I can think of in British politics was Ian Paisley. Apparently, a Catholic constituent who knocked on his door would often get a pot of tea made by the man himself, their problems listened to and fixed.

    On the “mass market”, one of the foremost proponents of anti-Catholic bigotry in public life.

    Numerous times I have heard anecdotes about how X is really a lovely person up close. But their public persona is the one they have to fight elections with.
  • Labour: Violence in Israel casts shadow over party conference as Rayner hosts minute's silence
    https://www.itv.com/news/2023-10-09/israel-violence-casts-shadow-over-labour-conference-as-rayner-hosts-silence
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,137
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning all.

    Sunak has no understanding of normal people and no ability to communicate with them.

    Hopeless.

    Especially given he's up against the true master of empathy, Sir Keir Starmer. A man who oozes charm from every pore. A man who lights up every room he walks in to.
    If that's the worst people have to say about him, he should be fine.
    He might completely lack any charisma genes, but he doesn't appear utterly out of touch.

    And his communication skills, in terms of messaging coherence, are much superior to Sunak's.

    The "good enough" assessment probably applies.
    Starmer is fine.

    He's not manifestly incompetent. He's managed his (fractious) party well.

    I have little doubt he will win the next General Election, and perform adequately.

    But Mr Charisma he is not. There is no vaulting rhetoric. No sense of purpose.

    He's just fine.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,558

    nico679 said:

    Sunak will be hoping that the news coverage stays firmly on Israel . Anything that takes attention away from domestic issues could help in the two by-elections coming up .

    Starmers big speech tomorrow does look going by the leaks to include some large scale plans in terms of new towns. It does though look to get drowned out by the Israeli coverage .

    Fantastic news if Starmer is planning on some large scale new towns.

    Especially if he's planning on the appropriate infrastructure of new motorways to link those new towns to the rest of the country.

    I won't be holding my breath though.
    One of the weekend briefings said that the new towns will be centred around railway stations, and cited East-West Rail as an example.

    As someone who lives in a compact town centred around a railway station (I suspect we have among the highest rail journeys:population ratios anywhere in the country) I think this is a pretty good idea.
    Means Starmer is going to have to pay off the inflated demands of the rail unions first. Otherwise, no point in having a rail hub without running trains.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    edited October 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning all.

    Sunak has no understanding of normal people and no ability to communicate with them.

    Hopeless.

    Especially given he's up against the true master of empathy, Sir Keir Starmer. A man who oozes charm from every pore. A man who lights up every room he walks in to.
    If that's the worst people have to say about him, he should be fine.
    He might completely lack any charisma genes, but he doesn't appear utterly out of touch.

    And his communication skills, in terms of messaging coherence, are much superior to Sunak's.

    The "good enough" assessment probably applies.
    Starmer is fine.

    He's not manifestly incompetent. He's managed his (fractious) party well.

    I have little doubt he will win the next General Election, and perform adequately.

    But Mr Charisma he is not. There is no vaulting rhetoric. No sense of purpose.

    He's just fine.
    He might be like Joe Biden.

    Acceptable, under the circumstances.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    Sandpit said:

    25 Russian tanks taken out by Ukraine over the weekend, including one of the new £4m T-90 models.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/09/ukraine-russia-war-live-putin-shelling-zelensky-latest/

    The difference between the Soviet-era tanks and the Western models that the Ukranians now have, is that the Soviet tanks get blown to bits by a single hit on them, often with loss of life, thanks to the way they’re constructed with the ammunition under the barrel; whereas the Western tanks are designed to be, and often are, repairable after being hit by artillery fire, and the crew can usually escape.

    Which is as a result of design policy since WWII.

    The Soviet theory was that tank crews were as expendable as the tank, thanks to mass conscription, and that the best idea was to make the tank as light/small as possible. Experience in the crew was not considered highly - the tank would provide the capability, and moderate training, the ability.

    The Western philosophy was that experienced tanks crews were very valuable and that a dead tank with a live crew was a valuable outcome.

    50 years and many billions later, both got exactly what they wanted.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372

    nico679 said:

    Sunak will be hoping that the news coverage stays firmly on Israel . Anything that takes attention away from domestic issues could help in the two by-elections coming up .

    Starmers big speech tomorrow does look going by the leaks to include some large scale plans in terms of new towns. It does though look to get drowned out by the Israeli coverage .

    Fantastic news if Starmer is planning on some large scale new towns.

    Especially if he's planning on the appropriate infrastructure of new motorways to link those new towns to the rest of the country.

    I won't be holding my breath though.
    One of the weekend briefings said that the new towns will be centred around railway stations, and cited East-West Rail as an example.

    As someone who lives in a compact town centred around a railway station (I suspect we have among the highest rail journeys:population ratios anywhere in the country) I think this is a pretty good idea.
    Means Starmer is going to have to pay off the inflated demands of the rail unions first. Otherwise, no point in having a rail hub without running trains.
    Given the RMT strikes are avowedly political they may well settle with Starmer far more easily than with the Tories, and the same goes for the BMA who have already said in England they won't settle for what they have in the devolved regions because, the Tories, innit

    ASLEF will be a tougher nut to crack.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372

    Slumming it in "Sydney" this week :lol:


    I'm sure you'll enjoy the Bigg Market.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning all.

    Sunak has no understanding of normal people and no ability to communicate with them.

    Hopeless.

    Especially given he's up against the true master of empathy, Sir Keir Starmer. A man who oozes charm from every pore. A man who lights up every room he walks in to.
    Sunak was beaten by a candidate who in turn was beaten by a lettuce

    Any sentient being is an improvement on him
    Now, hang on. He's better than Michael Fabricant, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Richard Burgon, Laura Pid...oh, hold on, you did say 'sentient.' As you were.
    As we are doing jokes, a reminder of Angela Rayner's quip that the Prime Minister has failed to provide his Whatsapp messages to the Covid inquiry, and Jacob Rees-Mogg has yet to hand over his carrier pigeon.
    Actually, that’s rather good. Reminds one of how out of touch JRM often seems.

    And good morning to all! Sunny here with a mostly clear blue sky. Just a little high cloud.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning all.

    Sunak has no understanding of normal people and no ability to communicate with them.

    Hopeless.

    Especially given he's up against the true master of empathy, Sir Keir Starmer. A man who oozes charm from every pore. A man who lights up every room he walks in to.
    If that's the worst people have to say about him, he should be fine.
    He might completely lack any charisma genes, but he doesn't appear utterly out of touch.

    And his communication skills, in terms of messaging coherence, are much superior to Sunak's.

    The "good enough" assessment probably applies.
    Starmer is fine.

    He's not manifestly incompetent. He's managed his (fractious) party well.

    I have little doubt he will win the next General Election, and perform adequately.

    But Mr Charisma he is not. There is no vaulting rhetoric. No sense of purpose.

    He's just fine.
    Starmer has got one other thing working in his favour. He looks like he's going to win. Nothing like that for boosting the old charisma.

    See also: BoJo's determination to avoid fights he risked losing.

    Also see also: Sunak's problem being, in part, that the Premiership sort of fell into his lap.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    As an example, when they built my 'village' (actually a town now), there was no public transport aside from a bus. The developers built a short section of dual carriageway onto the A428, which HA later grudgigly extended to meet the existing dual carriageway near Cambridge.

    For public transport, we still rely on busses, and are at the whim of Stagecoach (who have withdrawn many of the services, and cut the routes through the village), and Whippet, who are good but small. We have no railway, no tram,; not even a good cycle route to Cambridge.

    Any new town should have excellent transport links. Nearby, the new Northstowe should have the misguided bus link into Cambridge (along an old railway line, natch). Waterbeach New Town is going to be served by moving the existing station a short distance north. All these are paid for by the council, not developers.

    We cannot - and must not - so new towns on the cheap.

    Absolutely any new towns should have excellent transport links, I said there should be new motorways.

    But that should not be the "developers" responsibility.

    If you want community infrastructure, then it is the responsibility of the entire community, the entire country, to pay for that - not just pile the burden on those who get a new house all alone while those who live in secure housing that was built years ago abscond from any responsibilities.
    That's sorta my point. It should be paid for by the councils involved, and it should be there when it is needed.

    As an example of where S106 can go wrong, see this story (yes, DM...). The first houses in Nortstowe (a development northwest of Cambridge) have been occupied for six years now, and it has no shops, pubs, cafes, public toilets, or even a GP practice.

    I know Northstowe fairly well (I've run around all of it as of a few months ago, but the ****ards keep on opening new roads...), and although I'm not a fan of the architecture, the layout seems fairly well designed. But it's terrible that a place that is housing thousands does not have the basic amenities.

    It's fine for the council to say: a 'community centre building will be provided before the 900th home was occupied, or a sports pavilion before the 500th - when there are 1,200 homes occupied and they have not been built.

    The council should be able to make the developer stop all building works on houses - and sales of completed houses - until it meets its obligations.

    S106 simply doesn't work very well, even on large developments.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12306249/Englands-biggest-new-town-no-shops-cafes-GP-surgeries-SIX-YEARS.html
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372
    Labours announcement on homebuilding gets the thumbsdown from The Guardian, naturally.

    It is a capitulation to the developers.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/labour-s-plan-for-the-builders-not-the-blockers-is-a-capitulation-to-developers/ar-AA1hXt3l?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=7a5de91287df4d8793cd8a6466726532&ei=8
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    Taz said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak will be hoping that the news coverage stays firmly on Israel . Anything that takes attention away from domestic issues could help in the two by-elections coming up .

    Starmers big speech tomorrow does look going by the leaks to include some large scale plans in terms of new towns. It does though look to get drowned out by the Israeli coverage .

    Fantastic news if Starmer is planning on some large scale new towns.

    Especially if he's planning on the appropriate infrastructure of new motorways to link those new towns to the rest of the country.

    I won't be holding my breath though.
    One of the weekend briefings said that the new towns will be centred around railway stations, and cited East-West Rail as an example.

    As someone who lives in a compact town centred around a railway station (I suspect we have among the highest rail journeys:population ratios anywhere in the country) I think this is a pretty good idea.
    Means Starmer is going to have to pay off the inflated demands of the rail unions first. Otherwise, no point in having a rail hub without running trains.
    Given the RMT strikes are avowedly political they may well settle with Starmer far more easily than with the Tories, and the same goes for the BMA who have already said in England they won't settle for what they have in the devolved regions because, the Tories, innit

    ASLEF will be a tougher nut to crack.
    I am not in the BMA, but if the English Juniors were offered what the Scottish got then it would go to a members ballot, and probably be accepted.

    The Juniors voted 98% for a second six months of strikes. This is not being marshalled by a few Trotskyite shop stewards, this is a union that finally started listening to its members.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning all.

    Sunak has no understanding of normal people and no ability to communicate with them.

    Hopeless.

    Especially given he's up against the true master of empathy, Sir Keir Starmer. A man who oozes charm from every pore. A man who lights up every room he walks in to.
    Sunak was beaten by a candidate who in turn was beaten by a lettuce

    Any sentient being is an improvement on him
    Now, hang on. He's better than Michael Fabricant, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Richard Burgon, Laura Pid...oh, hold on, you did say 'sentient.' As you were.
    As we are doing jokes, a reminder of Angela Rayner's quip that the Prime Minister has failed to provide his Whatsapp messages to the Covid inquiry, and Jacob Rees-Mogg has yet to hand over his carrier pigeon.
    So preferring to making a joke, when she could have actually made a good political point about the PM and his record-keeping?

    She comes across as a comedian, rather than a serious politician. Even if the joke got a bunch of laughs from the hall, she isn’t convincing swing voters that she’s wanting to be a senior member of the next government. If they wanted a comic, there’s plenty of Labour-supporting professionals they could have hired to make the same joke.
    People complain about professional politicians, then complain about unprofessional ones. People complain about politicians who have not had careers outside politics, and the lack of real working class representation, they say too many go to university, them complain that someone is uneducated and politically inexperienced.

    Rayner is a star. She has convictions, authenticity and style, she is intelligent, canny and organised. No wonder she is popular.
    She's a nasty piece of work. Her forced and delayed apology over her 'scum' comments shows that.

    That does not make her a poor politician though..
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    .
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning all.

    Sunak has no understanding of normal people and no ability to communicate with them.

    Hopeless.

    Especially given he's up against the true master of empathy, Sir Keir Starmer. A man who oozes charm from every pore. A man who lights up every room he walks in to.
    Sunak was beaten by a candidate who in turn was beaten by a lettuce

    Any sentient being is an improvement on him
    Now, hang on. He's better than Michael Fabricant, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Richard Burgon, Laura Pid...oh, hold on, you did say 'sentient.' As you were.
    As we are doing jokes, a reminder of Angela Rayner's quip that the Prime Minister has failed to provide his Whatsapp messages to the Covid inquiry, and Jacob Rees-Mogg has yet to hand over his carrier pigeon.
    So preferring to making a joke, when she could have actually made a good political point about the PM and his record-keeping?

    She comes across as a comedian, rather than a serious politician. Even if the joke got a bunch of laughs from the hall, she isn’t convincing swing voters that she’s wanting to be a senior member of the next government. If they wanted a comic, there’s plenty of Labour-supporting professionals they could have hired to make the same joke.
    People complain about professional politicians, then complain about unprofessional ones. People complain about politicians who have not had careers outside politics, and the lack of real working class representation, they say too many go to university, them complain that someone is uneducated and politically inexperienced.

    Rayner is a star. She has convictions, authenticity and style, she is intelligent, canny and organised. No wonder she is popular.
    Time enough to attack them when they demonstrate incompetence in government.

    I wonder if Starmer will have Attlee's ruthlessness with colleagues who are 'not up to it' - or indeed whether he will be up to it himself ?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning all.

    Sunak has no understanding of normal people and no ability to communicate with them.

    Hopeless.

    Especially given he's up against the true master of empathy, Sir Keir Starmer. A man who oozes charm from every pore. A man who lights up every room he walks in to.
    Sunak was beaten by a candidate who in turn was beaten by a lettuce

    Any sentient being is an improvement on him
    Now, hang on. He's better than Michael Fabricant, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Richard Burgon, Laura Pid...oh, hold on, you did say 'sentient.' As you were.
    As we are doing jokes, a reminder of Angela Rayner's quip that the Prime Minister has failed to provide his Whatsapp messages to the Covid inquiry, and Jacob Rees-Mogg has yet to hand over his carrier pigeon.
    So preferring to making a joke, when she could have actually made a good political point about the PM and his record-keeping?

    She comes across as a comedian, rather than a serious politician. Even if the joke got a bunch of laughs from the hall, she isn’t convincing swing voters that she’s wanting to be a senior member of the next government. If they wanted a comic, there’s plenty of Labour-supporting professionals they could have hired to make the same joke.
    People complain about professional politicians, then complain about unprofessional ones. People complain about politicians who have not had careers outside politics, and the lack of real working class representation, they say too many go to university, them complain that someone is uneducated and politically inexperienced.

    Rayner is a star. She has convictions, authenticity and style, she is intelligent, canny and organised. No wonder she is popular.
    To this potentially floating voter, she comes across as superficial and not serious. I can’t imagine her as a DPM, or occupying one of the Great Offices.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,241

    As an example, when they built my 'village' (actually a town now), there was no public transport aside from a bus. The developers built a short section of dual carriageway onto the A428, which HA later grudgigly extended to meet the existing dual carriageway near Cambridge.

    For public transport, we still rely on busses, and are at the whim of Stagecoach (who have withdrawn many of the services, and cut the routes through the village), and Whippet, who are good but small. We have no railway, no tram,; not even a good cycle route to Cambridge.

    Any new town should have excellent transport links. Nearby, the new Northstowe should have the misguided bus link into Cambridge (along an old railway line, natch). Waterbeach New Town is going to be served by moving the existing station a short distance north. All these are paid for by the council, not developers.

    We cannot - and must not - so new towns on the cheap.

    Absolutely any new towns should have excellent transport links, I said there should be new motorways.

    But that should not be the "developers" responsibility.

    If you want community infrastructure, then it is the responsibility of the entire community, the entire country, to pay for that - not just pile the burden on those who get a new house all alone while those who live in secure housing that was built years ago abscond from any responsibilities.
    That's sorta my point. It should be paid for by the councils involved, and it should be there when it is needed.

    As an example of where S106 can go wrong, see this story (yes, DM...). The first houses in Nortstowe (a development northwest of Cambridge) have been occupied for six years now, and it has no shops, pubs, cafes, public toilets, or even a GP practice.

    I know Northstowe fairly well (I've run around all of it as of a few months ago, but the ****ards keep on opening new roads...), and although I'm not a fan of the architecture, the layout seems fairly well designed. But it's terrible that a place that is housing thousands does not have the basic amenities.

    It's fine for the council to say: a 'community centre building will be provided before the 900th home was occupied, or a sports pavilion before the 500th - when there are 1,200 homes occupied and they have not been built.

    The council should be able to make the developer stop all building works on houses - and sales of completed houses - until it meets its obligations.


    S106 simply doesn't work very well, even on large developments.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12306249/Englands-biggest-new-town-no-shops-cafes-GP-surgeries-SIX-YEARS.html
    A friend of mine was selling a field he inherited from his Dad but didn’t need. Got outline planning permission - but it’s taken 4 years to negotiate the s106. The council doesn’t review drafts, keeps changing their mind, defers decisions at every opportunity. The development is entirely within the local and national plan - but the local council doesn’t want any houses built so they are being so obstructive that the developer may walk away
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372

    As an example, when they built my 'village' (actually a town now), there was no public transport aside from a bus. The developers built a short section of dual carriageway onto the A428, which HA later grudgigly extended to meet the existing dual carriageway near Cambridge.

    For public transport, we still rely on busses, and are at the whim of Stagecoach (who have withdrawn many of the services, and cut the routes through the village), and Whippet, who are good but small. We have no railway, no tram,; not even a good cycle route to Cambridge.

    Any new town should have excellent transport links. Nearby, the new Northstowe should have the misguided bus link into Cambridge (along an old railway line, natch). Waterbeach New Town is going to be served by moving the existing station a short distance north. All these are paid for by the council, not developers.

    We cannot - and must not - so new towns on the cheap.

    Absolutely any new towns should have excellent transport links, I said there should be new motorways.

    But that should not be the "developers" responsibility.

    If you want community infrastructure, then it is the responsibility of the entire community, the entire country, to pay for that - not just pile the burden on those who get a new house all alone while those who live in secure housing that was built years ago abscond from any responsibilities.
    That's sorta my point. It should be paid for by the councils involved, and it should be there when it is needed.

    l
    Problem is alot of the councils do not have any money, or much spare money, and they are reluctant to adopt roads on new developments let alone anything else.

    So taking on more is not going to be something many councils want to do.

    All they will want from new developments is the extra revenue from council tax.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372
    Heathener said:

    Someone close to me has had tea with Keir Starmer and said he was great: relaxed, easy to get on with, and funny.

    The issue is more that people don't yet see Starmer. If my friend is right then it will come through during the GE campaign.

    What's abundantly clear to all of us who actually live in this country Robert @rcs1000 is that the more we see of Sunak, the worse he appears.

    With respect every politician who has a dull public persona, Brown and May were others, we hear these stories about.

    How they were down to earth and surprisingly funny.

    Yet they can never convey it in public and it never comes through in an election either.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Taz said:

    As an example, when they built my 'village' (actually a town now), there was no public transport aside from a bus. The developers built a short section of dual carriageway onto the A428, which HA later grudgigly extended to meet the existing dual carriageway near Cambridge.

    For public transport, we still rely on busses, and are at the whim of Stagecoach (who have withdrawn many of the services, and cut the routes through the village), and Whippet, who are good but small. We have no railway, no tram,; not even a good cycle route to Cambridge.

    Any new town should have excellent transport links. Nearby, the new Northstowe should have the misguided bus link into Cambridge (along an old railway line, natch). Waterbeach New Town is going to be served by moving the existing station a short distance north. All these are paid for by the council, not developers.

    We cannot - and must not - so new towns on the cheap.

    Absolutely any new towns should have excellent transport links, I said there should be new motorways.

    But that should not be the "developers" responsibility.

    If you want community infrastructure, then it is the responsibility of the entire community, the entire country, to pay for that - not just pile the burden on those who get a new house all alone while those who live in secure housing that was built years ago abscond from any responsibilities.
    That's sorta my point. It should be paid for by the councils involved, and it should be there when it is needed.

    l
    Problem is alot of the councils do not have any money, or much spare money, and they are reluctant to adopt roads on new developments let alone anything else.

    So taking on more is not going to be something many councils want to do.

    All they will want from new developments is the extra revenue from council tax.
    Hence the planning gain plan.
  • Slumming it in "Sydney" this week :lol:


    What are you doing in the Toon?
    Taking my Mum there for her birthday this week, she hasn't been to the NE and she likes them bridges, being a photographer and all. Hope to see Tynemouth, Whitley Bay, and Durham. Covertly hoping to also see Tanfield on Saturday, time permitting :)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Keir Starmer to promise new powers for all of England’s towns and cities
    Exclusive: Labour leader to pledge biggest expansion of devolution since party was last in power
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/09/keir-starmer-to-promise-new-powers-for-all-of-englands-towns-and-cities
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning all.

    Sunak has no understanding of normal people and no ability to communicate with them.

    Hopeless.

    Especially given he's up against the true master of empathy, Sir Keir Starmer. A man who oozes charm from every pore. A man who lights up every room he walks in to.
    Sunak was beaten by a candidate who in turn was beaten by a lettuce

    Any sentient being is an improvement on him
    Now, hang on. He's better than Michael Fabricant, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Richard Burgon, Laura Pid...oh, hold on, you did say 'sentient.' As you were.
    As we are doing jokes, a reminder of Angela Rayner's quip that the Prime Minister has failed to provide his Whatsapp messages to the Covid inquiry, and Jacob Rees-Mogg has yet to hand over his carrier pigeon.
    So preferring to making a joke, when she could have actually made a good political point about the PM and his record-keeping?

    She comes across as a comedian, rather than a serious politician. Even if the joke got a bunch of laughs from the hall, she isn’t convincing swing voters that she’s wanting to be a senior member of the next government. If they wanted a comic, there’s plenty of Labour-supporting professionals they could have hired to make the same joke.
    People complain about professional politicians, then complain about unprofessional ones. People complain about politicians who have not had careers outside politics, and the lack of real working class representation, they say too many go to university, them complain that someone is uneducated and politically inexperienced.

    Rayner is a star. She has convictions, authenticity and style, she is intelligent, canny and organised. No wonder she is popular.
    To this potentially floating voter, she comes across as superficial and not serious. I can’t imagine her as a DPM, or occupying one of the Great Offices.
    Grant Shapps was recently Home Secretary. Was anybody's imagination equal to the task of conjuring that phantasmagoria?
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 694
    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    Someone close to me has had tea with Keir Starmer and said he was great: relaxed, easy to get on with, and funny.

    The issue is more that people don't yet see Starmer. If my friend is right then it will come through during the GE campaign.

    What's abundantly clear to all of us who actually live in this country Robert @rcs1000 is that the more we see of Sunak, the worse he appears.

    With respect every politician who has a dull public persona, Brown and May were others, we hear these stories about.

    How they were down to earth and surprisingly funny.

    Yet they can never convey it in public and it never comes through in an election either.
    I've also heard stories about Ted Heath being the life and soul of the party (yes, really).
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Taz said:

    As an example, when they built my 'village' (actually a town now), there was no public transport aside from a bus. The developers built a short section of dual carriageway onto the A428, which HA later grudgigly extended to meet the existing dual carriageway near Cambridge.

    For public transport, we still rely on busses, and are at the whim of Stagecoach (who have withdrawn many of the services, and cut the routes through the village), and Whippet, who are good but small. We have no railway, no tram,; not even a good cycle route to Cambridge.

    Any new town should have excellent transport links. Nearby, the new Northstowe should have the misguided bus link into Cambridge (along an old railway line, natch). Waterbeach New Town is going to be served by moving the existing station a short distance north. All these are paid for by the council, not developers.

    We cannot - and must not - so new towns on the cheap.

    Absolutely any new towns should have excellent transport links, I said there should be new motorways.

    But that should not be the "developers" responsibility.

    If you want community infrastructure, then it is the responsibility of the entire community, the entire country, to pay for that - not just pile the burden on those who get a new house all alone while those who live in secure housing that was built years ago abscond from any responsibilities.
    That's sorta my point. It should be paid for by the councils involved, and it should be there when it is needed.

    l
    Problem is alot of the councils do not have any money, or much spare money, and they are reluctant to adopt roads on new developments let alone anything else.

    So taking on more is not going to be something many councils want to do.

    All they will want from new developments is the extra revenue from council tax.
    Here's an idea: remove most of S106. Replace it with a 1% tax on all new house sales, to be split between national and local government. Both funds must be spent on infrastructure for new developments.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    One of Barty's perfect new towns:


  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Nigelb said:

    Keir Starmer to promise new powers for all of England’s towns and cities
    Exclusive: Labour leader to pledge biggest expansion of devolution since party was last in power
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/09/keir-starmer-to-promise-new-powers-for-all-of-englands-towns-and-cities

    Where exactly he draws the line between devolution of powers and enabling NIMBYism, is going to be key to whether this is a brilliant or a terrible policy.

    Labour definitely seem to have more ideas than the Conservatives did last week though.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Grey field sounds similar to brown field. Not entirely sure of the difference. Old style pre-internet shopping complexes. Are there really a tonne of those. Great if so.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Keir Starmer to promise new powers for all of England’s towns and cities
    Exclusive: Labour leader to pledge biggest expansion of devolution since party was last in power
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/09/keir-starmer-to-promise-new-powers-for-all-of-englands-towns-and-cities

    Where exactly he draws the line between devolution of powers and enabling NIMBYism, is going to be key to whether this is a brilliant or a terrible policy.

    Labour definitely seem to have more ideas than the Conservatives did last week though.
    Of course.
    I welcome the ambition, and the ideas have a definite logic to them (which makes a pleasant change from recent years, and certainly from last week) but I'm not assuming it will be a success.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372
    Eabhal said:

    One of Barty's perfect new towns:


    No it isn't.

    It is a farm on the M62 where the story is, don't know if true or not, the farmer refused to sell so they built the motorway around him.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,558
    Sandpit said:

    25 Russian tanks taken out by Ukraine over the weekend, including one of the new £4m T-90 models.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/09/ukraine-russia-war-live-putin-shelling-zelensky-latest/

    The difference between the Soviet-era tanks and the Western models that the Ukranians now have, is that the Soviet tanks get blown to bits by a single hit on them, often with loss of life, thanks to the way they’re constructed with the ammunition under the barrel; whereas the Western tanks are designed to be, and often are, repairable after being hit by artillery fire, and the crew can usually escape.

    There is a crazy machismo in the Russian military, that as soon as they lose a village/strong point/tree line, they must recapture it, whatever the cost. So Ukraine makes gains and waits for the inevitable Russian push - usually from an entirely predictable vector. With their use of drones and HIMARS and other artillery able to blast the head off a pin, the Russians inevitably become another bunch of battlefield statistics.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372
    SandraMc said:

    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    Someone close to me has had tea with Keir Starmer and said he was great: relaxed, easy to get on with, and funny.

    The issue is more that people don't yet see Starmer. If my friend is right then it will come through during the GE campaign.

    What's abundantly clear to all of us who actually live in this country Robert @rcs1000 is that the more we see of Sunak, the worse he appears.

    With respect every politician who has a dull public persona, Brown and May were others, we hear these stories about.

    How they were down to earth and surprisingly funny.

    Yet they can never convey it in public and it never comes through in an election either.
    I've also heard stories about Ted Heath being the life and soul of the party (yes, really).
    Blimey !!!!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    ‘We’re Going to Die Here’
    A firsthand account of tragedy and heroism from the slaughter that left more than 900 Israelis dead
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/amir-tibon-how-his-family-survived-hamas-massacre/675596/

    ...But I’ll tell you something. In a way, the fact that they shot the mortars at our community before they broke through the border saved a lot of people’s lives, because it caused people to run into the safe room. And this safe room, if you lock it properly, is very hard to open from the outside. A lot of people were barricaded in those safe rooms for hours and sometimes an entire day. In a lot of cases, the terrorists tried to break in, and they couldn’t.

    What happened in our case was that we were sitting there in the dark. A few minutes after we got in and we heard this gunfire, the electricity stopped. We had no food. We did have some water. And we’re telling our daughters, “You have to be quiet now. You have to be absolutely quiet. Not a word. You can’t cry. Can’t talk. It’s dangerous.” And my girls were absolute heroes. They waited silently in the dark for 10 hours, and they did not cry. They understood. ..

    ...successive Israeli governments, all of them led by Benjamin Netanyahu, invested billions of dollars—I think some of them actually from U.S. support—in constructing an underground wall to prevent Hamas from using those tunnels again. This was a major infrastructure project for the state of Israel. And that project allowed us to sleep at night, because you can deal with rockets falling over your head if you have a safe room in your house, but if terrorists are infiltrating underground and they can walk into your community, that’s a game changer. And so the reason we could live there, and that’s true for everyone, is because of this underground wall that Israel constructed. And in the morning hours of Saturday, October 7, when we heard the gunfire outside our window, we realized that this project is an utter and complete failure.

    Israel invested so much in it, and what did the Hamas people do? They took a few tractors and SUVs, and they ran over the border fence. ..
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,558
    Taz said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak will be hoping that the news coverage stays firmly on Israel . Anything that takes attention away from domestic issues could help in the two by-elections coming up .

    Starmers big speech tomorrow does look going by the leaks to include some large scale plans in terms of new towns. It does though look to get drowned out by the Israeli coverage .

    Fantastic news if Starmer is planning on some large scale new towns.

    Especially if he's planning on the appropriate infrastructure of new motorways to link those new towns to the rest of the country.

    I won't be holding my breath though.
    One of the weekend briefings said that the new towns will be centred around railway stations, and cited East-West Rail as an example.

    As someone who lives in a compact town centred around a railway station (I suspect we have among the highest rail journeys:population ratios anywhere in the country) I think this is a pretty good idea.
    Means Starmer is going to have to pay off the inflated demands of the rail unions first. Otherwise, no point in having a rail hub without running trains.
    Given the RMT strikes are avowedly political they may well settle with Starmer far more easily than with the Tories, and the same goes for the BMA who have already said in England they won't settle for what they have in the devolved regions because, the Tories, innit

    ASLEF will be a tougher nut to crack.
    Just more expensive.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    As an example, when they built my 'village' (actually a town now), there was no public transport aside from a bus. The developers built a short section of dual carriageway onto the A428, which HA later grudgigly extended to meet the existing dual carriageway near Cambridge.

    For public transport, we still rely on busses, and are at the whim of Stagecoach (who have withdrawn many of the services, and cut the routes through the village), and Whippet, who are good but small. We have no railway, no tram,; not even a good cycle route to Cambridge.

    Any new town should have excellent transport links. Nearby, the new Northstowe should have the misguided bus link into Cambridge (along an old railway line, natch). Waterbeach New Town is going to be served by moving the existing station a short distance north. All these are paid for by the council, not developers.

    We cannot - and must not - so new towns on the cheap.

    Absolutely any new towns should have excellent transport links, I said there should be new motorways.

    But that should not be the "developers" responsibility.

    If you want community infrastructure, then it is the responsibility of the entire community, the entire country, to pay for that - not just pile the burden on those who get a new house all alone while those who live in secure housing that was built years ago abscond from any responsibilities.
    That's sorta my point. It should be paid for by the councils involved, and it should be there when it is needed.

    l
    Problem is alot of the councils do not have any money, or much spare money, and they are reluctant to adopt roads on new developments let alone anything else.

    So taking on more is not going to be something many councils want to do.

    All they will want from new developments is the extra revenue from council tax.
    Hence the planning gain plan.
    Not seen the specifics but it alleviates it all well and good.

    Something needs to be done and more needs to be built in the places it is needed.

    I see loads of developments in South Tyneside, North Tyneside and Durham. Places with barely growing or declining populations. I cannot see why. It is hardly likely we are blessed with councils up here who have any drive or determination to try to grow the local economy and therefore grow the population.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    Nigelb said:

    Keir Starmer to promise new powers for all of England’s towns and cities
    Exclusive: Labour leader to pledge biggest expansion of devolution since party was last in power
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/09/keir-starmer-to-promise-new-powers-for-all-of-englands-towns-and-cities

    I have never understood why successive politicians of different parties think this is a vote winner. It’s not a vote loser either, necessarily, but just sort of… is. I get that their politician supporters like the idea because it makes them feel important, but in general involving local politicians with actual decisions is bad for the country.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989

    Slumming it in "Sydney" this week :lol:


    The "engine" room of the swing bridge is (or was) open to the public on one day a year.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Nigelb said:

    ‘We’re Going to Die Here’
    A firsthand account of tragedy and heroism from the slaughter that left more than 900 Israelis dead
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/amir-tibon-how-his-family-survived-hamas-massacre/675596/

    ...But I’ll tell you something. In a way, the fact that they shot the mortars at our community before they broke through the border saved a lot of people’s lives, because it caused people to run into the safe room. And this safe room, if you lock it properly, is very hard to open from the outside. A lot of people were barricaded in those safe rooms for hours and sometimes an entire day. In a lot of cases, the terrorists tried to break in, and they couldn’t.

    What happened in our case was that we were sitting there in the dark. A few minutes after we got in and we heard this gunfire, the electricity stopped. We had no food. We did have some water. And we’re telling our daughters, “You have to be quiet now. You have to be absolutely quiet. Not a word. You can’t cry. Can’t talk. It’s dangerous.” And my girls were absolute heroes. They waited silently in the dark for 10 hours, and they did not cry. They understood. ..

    ...successive Israeli governments, all of them led by Benjamin Netanyahu, invested billions of dollars—I think some of them actually from U.S. support—in constructing an underground wall to prevent Hamas from using those tunnels again. This was a major infrastructure project for the state of Israel. And that project allowed us to sleep at night, because you can deal with rockets falling over your head if you have a safe room in your house, but if terrorists are infiltrating underground and they can walk into your community, that’s a game changer. And so the reason we could live there, and that’s true for everyone, is because of this underground wall that Israel constructed. And in the morning hours of Saturday, October 7, when we heard the gunfire outside our window, we realized that this project is an utter and complete failure.

    Israel invested so much in it, and what did the Hamas people do? They took a few tractors and SUVs, and they ran over the border fence. ..

    Worth reading the whole thing.
    ..They stop in a nearby community that is close to the border, but not as close as we are. And my father convinces a soldier who is standing there and looking for a way to help to come with him to Nahal Oz, to my kibbutz, in order to kill terrorists and save families. They drive toward the kibbutz, but along the way, they see a military force being ambushed by Hamas fighters. They get out of the car. My father is retired; he doesn’t have military-grade weapons. In Israel, unlike in America, citizens cannot buy AR-15s, and I’m glad for that. But my father has a pistol with him, and he and this other soldier join the soldiers who are fighting the Hamas cell, they help kill them, and now they’re very close to my kibbutz. They’re five minutes from the entrance to my kibbutz, but two of the soldiers are wounded. And again, my father has to turn around. He puts the wounded soldiers in his car with the help of that other soldier who joined him, and they go back to where my mother is.

    My mom takes the wounded soldiers with her in their car to a hospital. My father sees another retired former general, Israel Ziv, who’s closer to 70 than 60. But Israel put on his uniform and came like a regular soldier down south to try to help. My father tells him, “Israel, I don’t have a car. My wife is taking the wounded soldiers to the hospital to save them. I need to get to Nahal Oz, where my family is barricaded. My granddaughters are there. Take me to Nahal Oz.”..
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372

    Taz said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak will be hoping that the news coverage stays firmly on Israel . Anything that takes attention away from domestic issues could help in the two by-elections coming up .

    Starmers big speech tomorrow does look going by the leaks to include some large scale plans in terms of new towns. It does though look to get drowned out by the Israeli coverage .

    Fantastic news if Starmer is planning on some large scale new towns.

    Especially if he's planning on the appropriate infrastructure of new motorways to link those new towns to the rest of the country.

    I won't be holding my breath though.
    One of the weekend briefings said that the new towns will be centred around railway stations, and cited East-West Rail as an example.

    As someone who lives in a compact town centred around a railway station (I suspect we have among the highest rail journeys:population ratios anywhere in the country) I think this is a pretty good idea.
    Means Starmer is going to have to pay off the inflated demands of the rail unions first. Otherwise, no point in having a rail hub without running trains.
    Given the RMT strikes are avowedly political they may well settle with Starmer far more easily than with the Tories, and the same goes for the BMA who have already said in England they won't settle for what they have in the devolved regions because, the Tories, innit

    ASLEF will be a tougher nut to crack.
    Just more expensive.
    They unashamedly just want the money.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    149/1 after 25ovs, finally looking like England could post a decent score today.
  • TOPPING said:

    Grey field sounds similar to brown field. Not entirely sure of the difference. Old style pre-internet shopping complexes. Are there really a tonne of those. Great if so.

    It's a smart use of language to reframe the debate. And presumably there's enough such sites in the right places to help, at least for a bit.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989
    ...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    edited October 2023
    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    One of Barty's perfect new towns:


    No it isn't.

    It is a farm on the M62 where the story is, don't know if true or not, the farmer refused to sell so they built the motorway around him.
    Used to think of that house as ‘the ‘last lonely house’ to which Tolkien refers in The Hobbit.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779
    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    Someone close to me has had tea with Keir Starmer and said he was great: relaxed, easy to get on with, and funny.

    The issue is more that people don't yet see Starmer. If my friend is right then it will come through during the GE campaign.

    What's abundantly clear to all of us who actually live in this country Robert @rcs1000 is that the more we see of Sunak, the worse he appears.

    With respect every politician who has a dull public persona, Brown and May were others, we hear these stories about.

    How they were down to earth and surprisingly funny.

    Yet they can never convey it in public and it never comes through in an election either.
    I have met Keir Starmer and he was quite dull in real life! I'll still vote for him because he also seemed calm, intelligent and well-informed, and we are electing a PM not a game show host.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,806
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning all.

    Sunak has no understanding of normal people and no ability to communicate with them.

    Hopeless.

    Especially given he's up against the true master of empathy, Sir Keir Starmer. A man who oozes charm from every pore. A man who lights up every room he walks in to.
    Sunak was beaten by a candidate who in turn was beaten by a lettuce

    Any sentient being is an improvement on him
    Now, hang on. He's better than Michael Fabricant, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Richard Burgon, Laura Pid...oh, hold on, you did say 'sentient.' As you were.
    As we are doing jokes, a reminder of Angela Rayner's quip that the Prime Minister has failed to provide his Whatsapp messages to the Covid inquiry, and Jacob Rees-Mogg has yet to hand over his carrier pigeon.
    So preferring to making a joke, when she could have actually made a good political point about the PM and his record-keeping?

    She comes across as a comedian, rather than a serious politician. Even if the joke got a bunch of laughs from the hall, she isn’t convincing swing voters that she’s wanting to be a senior member of the next government. If they wanted a comic, there’s plenty of Labour-supporting professionals they could have hired to make the same joke.
    People complain about professional politicians, then complain about unprofessional ones. People complain about politicians who have not had careers outside politics, and the lack of real working class representation, they say too many go to university, them complain that someone is uneducated and politically inexperienced.

    Rayner is a star. She has convictions, authenticity and style, she is intelligent, canny and organised. No wonder she is popular.
    To this potentially floating voter, she comes across as superficial and not serious. I can’t imagine her as a DPM, or occupying one of the Great Offices.
    She comes across as no less serious than a whole host of the utterly incompetent Tory politicians who have recently blighted the Government of our country. Coffey, Hancock, Shapps, Mogg, the Sixth form hockey captain type who is currently minister for social care etc. In fact Mogg is probably as good a prallel as any.

    Foxy nailed it. Tory types moan that Labour has no authentic voice, then moan some more when they have someone who has.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,805
    Sandpit said:

    149/1 after 25ovs, finally looking like England could post a decent score today.

    They have been really squeezed for the last 4 overs. No boundaries. No wickets either mind.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    Taz said:
    Starmer’s going to have fun by the second party conference in power, isn’t he? But then Cameron had nutters from day one. A Coalition helped him.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    edited October 2023
    TOPPING said:

    Grey field sounds similar to brown field. Not entirely sure of the difference. Old style pre-internet shopping complexes. Are there really a tonne of those. Great if so.

    In London, there are quite a few, surprisingly central, warehouse/factory sites.

    There’s quite a lot of “business parks” as well. Quite a few people have commented that Chiswick Business Park is a rather nice environment - they put in a lot of work to make it so.

    Compare it to the new flats being jammed between motorways and rail tracks.


  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    One of Barty's perfect new towns:


    No it isn't.

    It is a farm on the M62 where the story is, don't know if true or not, the farmer refused to sell so they built the motorway around him.
    Used to think of that house as ‘the ‘last lonely house’ to which Tolkien refers in The Hobbit.
    Apparently the farmer refusing to sell story is apocryphal, which is a shame.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    149/1 after 25ovs, finally looking like England could post a decent score today.

    They have been really squeezed for the last 4 overs. No boundaries. No wickets either mind.
    There’s Root with a big six! 10 from that over, and still above six an over average.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    Hamas have published a video of them shooting an Israeli family's dog.

    Idiots. Forget the beheadings, rapes etc - this is the kind of behaviour that really gets people upset. XL Bullies. Afghan dog plane.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    edited October 2023
    TOPPING said:

    Grey field sounds similar to brown field. Not entirely sure of the difference. Old style pre-internet shopping complexes. Are there really a tonne of those. Great if so.

    In this case it seems to be previously developed land in areas designated as Greenfield (I think).

    More generally, it's a planning term that's been around for decades:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyfield_land
    (nb "This article has multiple issues.")
This discussion has been closed.