Why on earth would any UK government, of any political persuasion, act as a lender of last resort to a foreign country? It's a position of potential loss with no compensatory profit.
Ireland bailout: UK to lend £7bn
• George Osborne confirms British contribution
• Criticism from eurosceptic MPs and rightwing thinktank
• Ireland rules out changes to 12.5% corporation tax
The Irish and Greek bailouts weren't for Ireland or Greece they were for the banks i.e. to shore up the banks' pre-existing exposure to Irish and Greek debt.
That doesn't apply to a newly independent Scotland.
If Scotland wants to be independent then they probably need to accept they'll need their own currency and their own (preferably state rather than banking cartel) central bank and their own pre big bang style banking sector.
If they did that they'd prob be better off imo but if the SNP want to convince people of that then Salmond needs to switch from Scotland's main problem being Westminster to Scotland's main problem being the City - which he won't.
The Irish bailout was also part of an international scheme, and most importantly Britain made a defined contribution and did not act as an unlimited guarentor.
If anything the Irish situation illustrates the risk of currency union. The Irish banks are still looking like the Walking Dead.
Why on earth would any UK government, of any political persuasion, act as a lender of last resort to a foreign country? It's a position of potential loss with no compensatory profit.
Ireland bailout: UK to lend £7bn
• George Osborne confirms British contribution
• Criticism from eurosceptic MPs and rightwing thinktank
• Ireland rules out changes to 12.5% corporation tax
The Irish and Greek bailouts weren't for Ireland or Greece they were for the banks i.e. to shore up the banks' pre-existing exposure to Irish and Greek debt.
That doesn't apply to a newly independent Scotland.
If Scotland wants to be independent then they probably need to accept they'll need their own currency and their own (preferably state rather than banking cartel) central bank and their own pre big bang style banking sector.
If they did that they'd prob be better off imo but if the SNP want to convince people of that then Salmond needs to switch from Scotland's main problem being Westminster to Scotland's main problem being the City - which he won't.
I must put on record how grateful I am to the SNP. They are providing endless amusement.
That it comes as a complete surprise to them that a currency union requires the consent of both parties, or that joining the EU would require Scotland to, how can I put this, join the EU, is brilliant.
More please!
I'm enjoying the unionist parties pretending a currency union is unworkable and EU officials pretending Scottish membership would be such a problem it would be impossible to arrange.
You're leaving out the European Unionist parties who are more concerned about Flemings and Catalonians than Scots.
"One way they could help flood victims is by trying to get some of our money back from the European Union. In 2002, the EU set up a "solidarity fund" to come to the aid of any member state in the event of a major national disaster.
The fund, paid for in part by British taxpayers, has an annual budget of one billion euros, and was used in 2002 to help flood victims in central Europe. It will intervene in cases of natural disasters with serious repercussions on living conditions and includes money to restore infrastructure, including energy, drinking water and sewage.
Given the £55million a day cost of belonging to the EU I think we need some of that money back!"
No, it's only Boris having a chuckle at the hapless Clegg and co. ;)I think Condor would be a good choice for Boris's new steed. Not just a bike built in Britain, a bike built in London!
As someone who does have a vote in this Indy ref, and who will also be profoundly effected by a Yes vote and all that entails. I am just wondering how many of our non resident keyboard Yes vote warriors fancy moving up here to take a gamble with us on an Independent Scotland with Salmond & Co at the helm organising it and negotiating our future outside the UK?
Seriously, I still remember Swinney trying to launch their famous local tax policy, remember that one? It crashed, burned and got binned the minute it got a whiff of any really scrutiny. And is anyone surprised the same is now happening on the issue of a post Independent Scottish currency or EU membership? Now you might say that I was always going to be a tough vote to crack when it came to the issue of Independence, but that the SNP/Yes campaign have confirmed my worst fears with their over hyped nationalist rhetoric and bluster trying to hide a total lack of a coherent plan for a post Indy Ref is an understatement. I find it fecking terrifying that all Salmond and Sturgeon have offered in response to hard facts this week has been cries of yer bluffing and trying to bully us all.
The José Manuel Barroso intervention today is just the latest example of this SNP bluster, tonight I am being told that his views are preposterous by the SNP. This is the same party that consistently lied about having legal advice on the future position of an Independent Scotland, and then spent taxpayers money trying to hide that the fact that they had not bothered their behookies to seek any advice at all on this issue at all! Its the same with the idea of a Currency Union, why the hell promote this as the most desirable or viable option at the last minute without first seeking the advice or the consent of the rest of the UK first to see if its even possible? Currency, interest rates, wages, mortgages and pensions etc matter to most voters, ask George Osborne, this is all going to matter next year in the GE campaign.
Although I plan to vote No. I wouldn't be so against the prospect of an Independent Scotland if I thought that those campaigning for it actually had done their homework and had prepared a full and honest prospectus on the vital issues of currency etc. And one that didn't leave us totally reliant on the agreement of any outside country or Institution like the EU after the vote for its success without stating that clearly and honestly. It was never in Salmond, Osborne, Balls or Alexander's gift to agree a Currency Union right now, and certainly not without a later Referendum in the rUK before any Westminster or Holyrood vote took place. Yet we are reduced to a debate which sees everyone squabbling about whether the UK is ganging up and bullying the Scots this week. Well the EU in the form of Barroso just waded in too, and maybe its time for Salmond & Co to stop trying to shoot the messengers and start addressing the gaping holes in their own ill prepared messages instead. Wee rant over.
As someone who does have a vote in this Indy ref, and who will also be profoundly effected by a Yes vote and all that entails. I am just wondering how many of our non resident keyboard Yes vote warriors fancy moving up here to take a gamble with us on an Independent Scotland with Salmond & Co at the helm organising it and negotiating our future outside the UK?
I still remember Swinney launching the famous local tax policy, it crashed and fell apart before quickly getting binned the minute it got a whiff of any really scrutiny. And is anyone surprised the same is now happening on the issue of a post Independent Scottish currency or EU membership? Now you might say that I was always going to be a tough vote to crack when it came to the issue of Independence, but that the SNP/Yes campaign have confirmed my worst fears with their over hyped nationalist rhetoric and bluster trying to hide a total lack of a coherent plan for a post Indy Ref is an understatement. I find it fecking terrifying that all Salmond and Sturgeon have offered in response to hard facts this week has been cries of yer bluffing and trying to bully us all.
The Barroso intervention today is just the latest example of this SNP bluster, tonight I am being told that his views are preposterous by the SNP. This is the same party that consistently lied about having legal advice on the future position of an Independent Scotland in the EU, they even wasted taxpayers money trying to hide the fact that they had not bothered their arses to even seek advice on this issue before making claims we were a shoo in! Its the same with the idea of a Currency Union, why the hell promote this as the most desirable or viable option at the last minute without first seeking the advice or the consent of the rest of the UK first to see if its even possible? Currency, interest rates, wages, mortgages and pensions etc matter to most voters, ask George Osborne, this is all going to matter next year in the GE campaign.
Although I plan to vote No. I wouldn't be so against the prospect of an Independent Scotland if I thought that those campaigning for it actually had done their homework and had prepared a full and honest prospectus on the vital issues of currency etc. And one that didn't leave us totally reliant on the agreement of any outside country or Institution like the EU after the vote for its success without stating that clearly and honestly. It was never in Salmond, Osborne, Balls or Alexander's gift to agree a Currency Union right now, and certainly not without a later Referendum in the rUK before any Westminster or Holyrood vote took place. Yet we are reduced to a debate which sees everyone squabbling about whether the UK is ganging up and bullying the Scots this week. Well the EU in the form of Barroso just waded in too, and maybe its time for Salmond & Co to stop trying to shoot the messengers and start addressing the gaping holes in their own ill prepared messages instead. Wee rant over.
to take a gamble with us on an Independent Scotland with Salmond & Co at the helm organising it and negotiating our future outside the UK?
Your pitiful idol Cammie couldn't win a majority against the hopeless Brown under FPTP and had to go running to the lib dems to save him. He is now almost as big a figure of fun as John Major as his own MPs and backbenchers humiliate the coward in votes in the commons time after time after time. Why? Because they don't trust him.
The SNP won a landslide majority under a system specifically designed to prevent that.They also won the 2012 local elections in scotland and currently have Holyrood VI polling that would see them win comfortably again.
The scottish public rate the EU and currency 7th and 8th in their list of priorites for Independence with only a tiny 3% and 2% of the scottish public considering them most important.
That's the reality put against your laughably out of touch Cameroonian spin.
The incompetent fop Cammie is still getting beaten in the polls by little Ed while the kippers are nowhere near the 2010 levels of 3.1% that the chumocracy need.
In case it has somehow also escaped you yet again there are still more pandas than tory MPs in scotland and your predictions of a scottish tory surge are as hilarious as every other fantasy pronouncement you make.
Anyone listening to a scottish tory surger and old biddies from SCON to judge scottish public opinion is as gullible and idiotic as anyone who believes Cammie's Cast Iron Referendum pledges and posturing.
I have to say with TUD's bet - And fair play to him putting his money where his mouth is I've switched from being a supporter of Scottish Independence to a fully paid up BETTER TOGETHER man now.
As someone who does have a vote in this Indy ref, and who will also be profoundly effected by a Yes vote and all that entails. I am just wondering how many of our non resident keyboard Yes vote warriors fancy moving up here to take a gamble with us on an Independent Scotland with Salmond & Co at the helm organising it and negotiating our future outside the UK?
I would. There was half a chance I might have been back in time for the referendum, too. Looks like it won't happen though.
To be fair, you have on the one hand Salmond and Sturgeon negotiatng the future outside of the UK. Some people will prefer that to Cameron et al. attempting to negotiate the future half-in the EU, with a possible out as a consequence.
'The scottish public rate the EU and currency 7th and 8th in their list of priorites for Independence with only a tiny 3% and 2% of the scottish public considering them most important.'
So why is Salmond so upset and gone into tantrum / blackmailing mode regarding Scotland's share of UK debt if these are such minor issues?
And fair play to him putting his money where his mouth is
He's offered the bet many times before and Tim took him up long ago. That was way back when this site still had a big focus on betting and not PB tories shrieking about matters over which they have very little control.
By all means dive in for 'better together' since the average scot reading a PB tory dominated blog, with their ill-concealed fury over Independence, are bound to have their eyes opened.
So why is Salmond Osborne so upset and gone into tantrum / blackmailing mode regarding Scotland's share of UK debt currency if these are such minor issues?
Fixed that for you.
The answer is of course that the tories and 'better together' have no positive vision of scotland whatsoever to offer to the scottish public.
Yet more foam flecked insults, why do I always feel tempted to shout full house or start picturing an angry wee ranting squirrel when you post a response these days? Anyhoos, in the absence of any Scottish pandas in 2007, the SNP relied on the Scottish Conservatives to get most of their business through the Holyrood Parliament as a minority administration.
to take a gamble with us on an Independent Scotland with Salmond & Co at the helm organising it and negotiating our future outside the UK?
Your pitiful idol Cammie couldn't win a majority against the hopeless Brown under FPTP and had to go running to the lib dems to save him. He is now almost as big a figure of fun as John Major as his own MPs and backbenchers humiliate the coward in votes in the commons time after time after time. Why? Because they don't trust him.
The SNP won a landslide majority under a system specifically designed to prevent that.They also won the 2012 local elections in scotland and currently have Holyrood VI polling that would see them win comfortably again.
The scottish public rate the EU and currency 7th and 8th in their list of priorites for Independence with only a tiny 3% and 2% of the scottish public considering them most important.
That's the reality put against your laughably out of touch Cameroonian spin.
The incompetent fop Cammie is still getting beaten in the polls by little Ed while the kippers are nowhere near the 2010 levels of 3.1% that the chumocracy need.
In case it has somehow also escaped you yet again there are still more pandas than tory MPs in scotland and your predictions of a scottish tory surge are as hilarious as every other fantasy pronouncement you make.
Anyone listening to a scottish tory surger and old biddies from SCON to judge scottish public opinion is as gullible and idiotic as anyone who believes Cammie's Cast Iron Referendum pledges and posturing.
Utterly witless and with the memory of a goldfish.
Shall we put your laughable spin that the SNP relied on the tories to keep them in power along with your other barking mad conspiracy theories like the one where you claimed the SNP would do a deal with Cammie to save boundary changes?
'The answer is of course that the tories and 'better together' have no positive vision of scotland whatsoever to offer to the scottish public.'
So now it's down to braveheart positive vision stuff,currency,living standards,pound in your pocket,EU membership all totally irrelevant and minor issues.
Still,you get the Queen as head of state & the BBC so not all bad.
As someone who does have a vote in this Indy ref, and who will also be profoundly effected by a Yes vote and all that entails. I am just wondering how many of our non resident keyboard Yes vote warriors fancy moving up here to take a gamble with us on an Independent Scotland with Salmond & Co at the helm organising it and negotiating our future outside the UK?
I would. There was half a chance I might have been back in time for the referendum, too. Looks like it won't happen though.
To be fair, you have on the one hand Salmond and Sturgeon negotiatng the future outside of the UK. Some people will prefer that to Cameron et al. attempting to negotiate the future half-in the EU, with a possible out as a consequence.
Everyone also knows that Cammie's EU 'renegotiations' are a stalling tactic and that all of it - including the Cast Iron IN/OUT referendum itself - is simply the desperate posturing of a weak tory PM to try and save himself from the wrath own backbench Eurosceptic MPs. Most of them are in turn only agitating against Cameron so vehemently because they rightly fear the kippers breathing down their necks and stealing their voters in so many marginal seats.
So ask yourself this. How are scottish voters going to react to this choice? Osborne and Cameron representing their interests in the EU when it is blatantly obvious all their focus is to try and keep a split tory party together. Or the SNP and those in the Yes campaign doing so so with their focus. To represent the interests of the scottish people inside the EU.
As someone who does have a vote in this Indy ref, and who will also be profoundly effected by a Yes vote and all that entails. I am just wondering how many of our non resident keyboard Yes vote warriors fancy moving up here to take a gamble with us on an Independent Scotland with Salmond & Co at the helm organising it and negotiating our future outside the UK?
So ask yourself this. How are scottish voters going to react to this choice? Osborne and Cameron representing their interests in the EU when it is blatantly obvious all their focus is to try and keep a split tory party together. Or the SNP and those in the Yes campaign doing so so with their focus. To represent the interests of the scottish people inside the EU.
I hate to break it to you mate, but when you leave the UK, you also leave the EU.
You'll have to negotiate your way back in, by no means a foregone conclusion with Spain and rUK having to agree.
So why is Salmond Osborne so upset and gone into tantrum / blackmailing mode regarding Scotland's share of UK debt currency if these are such minor issues?
Fixed that for you.
The answer is of course that the tories and 'better together' have no positive vision of scotland whatsoever to offer to the scottish public.
'I hate to break it to you mate, but when you leave the UK, you also leave the EU'
In the separatist world every demand is expected to be met no matter if it doesn't suit the other party and when they say NO ,they are threatened & accused of bluff,bluster & bullying.
I hate to break it to you mate, but when you leave the UK, you also leave the EU.
You'll have to negotiate your way back in
I hate to break it to you mate but scotland aren't the only ones who would have to enter into negotiations after Independence.
Scotland belongs in the EU, and independence won't change that
The no campaigners are floating scare stories about the EU denying the Scots full membership, but that will not happen
As sometimes happens in political disputes of this kind, complicated provisions of the European treaties are being cited by the no campaign. But Scottish voters' eventual decision should be taken free of misleading propaganda designed to frighten yes voters.
In the event of a yes outcome, the Scottish government will take part in immediate negotiations with both London and Brussels about issues affecting Scotland's EU membership. But few have drawn attention to the fact that what we might call the "rump UK" government will also have to negotiate changes in the terms of its membership.
The most important question that the no campaigners in Edinburgh or London cannot answer is: what provision exists in EU law to withhold citizens' rights from a people seeking continued EU membership and about whose country there is no question of any violation of fundamental European values? They cannot because there is none.
Unsurprisingly, the no camp has not dared justify depriving the Scottish people of these rights while the technical transitional arrangements are resolved. It will be in the interests of Brussels, London and Edinburgh to finalise these matters rapidly. The status quo could remain in place until a timetable is agreed for the new arrangements to come into force.
Cammie and Osbrowne can posture away to their hearts content on the EU but when their own backbenchers clearly don't trust them on the EU it's just a bit of a stretch to expect the scottish public to blithely do so.
Oh dear, now we are getting ever more personal as you try to deflect yet further from the action of the political Independence football to play the poster instead. And yet not one single coherent rebuttal or positive argument which might deflect from the genuine criticisms I levelled at the SNP/Yes campaign in my original post. Go on, keep arrogantly dismissing and insulting Scots who plan to vote No in the Indy Ref on this site. It just backs up the rather nasty tactics of the SNP/Yes campaign supporters being directed towards their fellow Scots.
Utterly witless and with the memory of a goldfish.
Shall we put your laughable spin that the SNP relied on the tories to keep them in power along with your other barking mad conspiracy theories like the one where you claimed the SNP would do a deal with Cammie to save boundary changes?
You seem to have a singularly unpleasant habit of insulting people and using childish nicknames for folks you disagree with politically, which makes it almost impossible to take you seriously.
I wll not indulge in that, and would urge you to refrain also.
Scotland belongs in the EU, and independence won't change that
My understanding is that the UK is in the EU. If Scotland leaves the UK, the UK will still be in the EU.
Scotland may well need to make its own deal for EU membership, and a currency too perhaps.
which might deflect from the genuine criticisms I levelled at the SNP/Yes campaign in my original post
Why on earth would I care what a scottish tory surger thinks of the Yes campaign? You have about as much chance of being representative of the scottish public as that single solitary tory MP is for the whole of scotland.
I'm delighted to leave it up to the scottish public as to who they think is arrogant and nasty after Osborne's amusingly cack-handed intervention. That you simply cannot conceive of your Cameroonian idols not being popular in scotland says all we need to know about just how out of touch with scottish public opinion you are.
The SNP’s entire approach to independence is to do as if, having voting Yes, Scotland will breezily and unilaterally be able to cherry-pick exactly which bits of the old British state it wishes to keep and which bits it wishes now to discard. The currency is just one of several bits that the SNP want to keep. But they present this as if it is a policy that poses no problems: the mere fact that they want it will be enough. Mere assertion that it is Scotland’s pound, as long as it is repeated often enough, will be sufficient to make it so, even when both the law and the interests of the rest of the UK point in diametrically a different direction. Those with long memories will recall that we saw the same tactic deployed in 2011-12, when the argument was whether the Scottish Parliament, without help from Westminster, enjoyed the legal competence to pass legislation authorising a referendum on independence. The SNP insisted, wholly without legal foundation, that it did. The SNP was wrong yet, when the UK Government suggested a solution, they were abruptly shouted down with cries of Westminster “boots” “stomping” all over “Scotland’s referendum”. Over the course of some long months, it was patiently and calmly shown that on analysis, the UK Government had got the law right and the SNP had got it wrong, and Nationalist talk of boots and stomping was replaced with rather more mature language of co-operation and respect. It was the same again with last year’s stramash over “automatic” EU membership. And now we’re on our third go around the same loop. This week’s cries of “bullying” and “economic aggression” will sooner or later give way to a cold, hard realisation that everything the Chancellor has said is based on clear, authoritative, expert and independent economic analysis, all of which has been put freely into the public domain.
Barroso is a member of the European Popular Party He belongs to the same centre-right cabal as the Spanish Partido Popular, and the UK Tories (before they went off in a collective huff and left the European Popular Party to join up in the EU parliament with far-right Latvian holocaust deniers). The Spanish PP has spent considerable time and effort persuading fellow members of the European Popular Party to adopt its line that states which become independent from existing EU members must leave the EU and reapply for membership. Reliant upon the support of European Popular Party members of the EU Parliament, Barroso wasn’t going to upset Partido Popular’s applecart.
Barroso is a Portuguese version of David Cameron or Mariano Rajoy. Formerly the Prime Minister of Portugal, Barroso introduced a unpopular programme of austerity cuts and wage freezes which did not go down well in Lisbon. He enthusiastically supported Bush and Blair in their illegal invasion of Iraq despite massive protests, and amidst mounting domestic pressure announced his resignation so he could go off and become EC President. His pals in the European Popular Party gave him a convenient excuse to run away to Brussels, and Portugal breathed a collective sigh of relief.
As the most prominent member of the European Popular Party, its successful candidate for the election to the EC Presidency, naturally Barroso will repeat the party line. He is after all a political appointee. But what he is saying is political manoeuvering , it’s not EU law or EU policy and has been rubbished on several previous occasions by real experts in EU law and EU enlargement, like Professor Graham Avery – most recently just a couple of weeks ago.
which makes it almost impossible to take you seriously.
That's a coincidence. I never take the GOP or their amusingly out of touch cheerleaders seriously. Particulary after the PB Romney hilarity.
Thanks for proving my point.
Good to know your point was that those who cheered Romney on were hilariously out of touch and simply wrong. Romney was a loser in case you still don't get it. If only stuarttruth was still here?
which makes it almost impossible to take you seriously.
That's a coincidence. I never take the GOP or their amusingly out of touch cheerleaders seriously. Particulary after the PB Romney hilarity.
Thanks for proving my point.
Good to know your point was that those who cheered Romney on were hilariously out of touch and simply wrong. Romney was a loser in case you still don't get it. If only stuarttruth was still here?
Actually this was my point -
My understanding is that the UK is in the EU. If Scotland leaves the UK, the UK will still be in the EU.
Scotland may well need to make its own deal for EU membership, and a currency too perhaps.
I am not aware of any connection between this and the GOP and Romney.
Again, when you lash out and insult rather than address the question, it says rather more about you than it does about me.
I have not insulted or demeaned you in any way, yet you feel the need to do that to me.
Scotland's first minister has vowed to "deconstruct" the chancellor's case against a currency union, when he makes a speech to business leaders later.
It's good to see that Salmond has been reading his Derrida in his spare time. I never got past the first few pages of Of Grammatology, but that is no doubt on account of my limited intellectual faculties.
I have not insulted or demeaned you in any way, yet you feel the need to do that to me.
Apart from the whole amusing pomposity of "impossible to take your views seriously" you mean? Slipped your mind did it?
Never mind. I don't expect you to understand that any more than the posts and links already made which clearly addressed the EU scaremongering and exposed it so clearly for what it is.
But feel free to chip in as there was clearly a gaping hole in PB for those who know very little of scottish politics and how the scottish public might react to scaremongering on the EU. Particularly when it's official tory policy to have an IN/OUT referendum which even Cameron's coalition partners the lib dems have noticed and are now warning of the danger of leaving the EU under Cameron's plans in PPBs.
That's leave the EU. Not negotiate continued membership within the EU but leave. OUT. No if's or buts. The scottish public have actually noticed that.
Barroso is a member of the European Popular Party He belongs to the same centre-right cabal as the Spanish Partido Popular, and the UK Tories (before they went off in a collective huff and left the European Popular Party to join up in the EU parliament with far-right Latvian holocaust deniers). The Spanish PP has spent considerable time and effort persuading fellow members of the European Popular Party to adopt its line that states which become independent from existing EU members must leave the EU and reapply for membership. Reliant upon the support of European Popular Party members of the EU Parliament, Barroso wasn’t going to upset Partido Popular’s applecart.
Barroso is a Portuguese version of David Cameron or Mariano Rajoy. Formerly the Prime Minister of Portugal, Barroso introduced a unpopular programme of austerity cuts and wage freezes which did not go down well in Lisbon. He enthusiastically supported Bush and Blair in their illegal invasion of Iraq despite massive protests, and amidst mounting domestic pressure announced his resignation so he could go off and become EC President. His pals in the European Popular Party gave him a convenient excuse to run away to Brussels, and Portugal breathed a collective sigh of relief.
As the most prominent member of the European Popular Party, its successful candidate for the election to the EC Presidency, naturally Barroso will repeat the party line. He is after all a political appointee. But what he is saying is political manoeuvering , it’s not EU law or EU policy and has been rubbished on several previous occasions by real experts in EU law and EU enlargement, like Professor Graham Avery – most recently just a couple of weeks ago.
Comments
That doesn't apply to a newly independent Scotland.
If Scotland wants to be independent then they probably need to accept they'll need their own currency and their own (preferably state rather than banking cartel) central bank and their own pre big bang style banking sector.
If they did that they'd prob be better off imo but if the SNP want to convince people of that then Salmond needs to switch from Scotland's main problem being Westminster to Scotland's main problem being the City - which he won't.
If anything the Irish situation illustrates the risk of currency union. The Irish banks are still looking like the Walking Dead.
Go for the Groat,real independence without the hanging onto nurse.
"One way they could help flood victims is by trying to get some of our money back from the European Union. In 2002, the EU set up a "solidarity fund" to come to the aid of any member state in the event of a major national disaster.
The fund, paid for in part by British taxpayers, has an annual budget of one billion euros, and was used in 2002 to help flood victims in central Europe. It will intervene in cases of natural disasters with serious repercussions on living conditions and includes money to restore infrastructure, including energy, drinking water and sewage.
Given the £55million a day cost of belonging to the EU I think we need some of that money back!"
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/458527/FARAGE-ON-FRIDAY-Let-s-demand-EU-cashback-and-divert-foreign-aid-for-flood-victims
Better late than never!
Seriously, I still remember Swinney trying to launch their famous local tax policy, remember that one? It crashed, burned and got binned the minute it got a whiff of any really scrutiny. And is anyone surprised the same is now happening on the issue of a post Independent Scottish currency or EU membership? Now you might say that I was always going to be a tough vote to crack when it came to the issue of Independence, but that the SNP/Yes campaign have confirmed my worst fears with their over hyped nationalist rhetoric and bluster trying to hide a total lack of a coherent plan for a post Indy Ref is an understatement. I find it fecking terrifying that all Salmond and Sturgeon have offered in response to hard facts this week has been cries of yer bluffing and trying to bully us all.
The José Manuel Barroso intervention today is just the latest example of this SNP bluster, tonight I am being told that his views are preposterous by the SNP. This is the same party that consistently lied about having legal advice on the future position of an Independent Scotland, and then spent taxpayers money trying to hide that the fact that they had not bothered their behookies to seek any advice at all on this issue at all! Its the same with the idea of a Currency Union, why the hell promote this as the most desirable or viable option at the last minute without first seeking the advice or the consent of the rest of the UK first to see if its even possible? Currency, interest rates, wages, mortgages and pensions etc matter to most voters, ask George Osborne, this is all going to matter next year in the GE campaign.
Although I plan to vote No. I wouldn't be so against the prospect of an Independent Scotland if I thought that those campaigning for it actually had done their homework and had prepared a full and honest prospectus on the vital issues of currency etc. And one that didn't leave us totally reliant on the agreement of any outside country or Institution like the EU after the vote for its success without stating that clearly and honestly. It was never in Salmond, Osborne, Balls or Alexander's gift to agree a Currency Union right now, and certainly not without a later Referendum in the rUK before any Westminster or Holyrood vote took place. Yet we are reduced to a debate which sees everyone squabbling about whether the UK is ganging up and bullying the Scots this week. Well the EU in the form of Barroso just waded in too, and maybe its time for Salmond & Co to stop trying to shoot the messengers and start addressing the gaping holes in their own ill prepared messages instead.
Wee rant over.
I still remember Swinney launching the famous local tax policy, it crashed and fell apart before quickly getting binned the minute it got a whiff of any really scrutiny. And is anyone surprised the same is now happening on the issue of a post Independent Scottish currency or EU membership? Now you might say that I was always going to be a tough vote to crack when it came to the issue of Independence, but that the SNP/Yes campaign have confirmed my worst fears with their over hyped nationalist rhetoric and bluster trying to hide a total lack of a coherent plan for a post Indy Ref is an understatement. I find it fecking terrifying that all Salmond and Sturgeon have offered in response to hard facts this week has been cries of yer bluffing and trying to bully us all.
The Barroso intervention today is just the latest example of this SNP bluster, tonight I am being told that his views are preposterous by the SNP. This is the same party that consistently lied about having legal advice on the future position of an Independent Scotland in the EU, they even wasted taxpayers money trying to hide the fact that they had not bothered their arses to even seek advice on this issue before making claims we were a shoo in! Its the same with the idea of a Currency Union, why the hell promote this as the most desirable or viable option at the last minute without first seeking the advice or the consent of the rest of the UK first to see if its even possible? Currency, interest rates, wages, mortgages and pensions etc matter to most voters, ask George Osborne, this is all going to matter next year in the GE campaign.
Although I plan to vote No. I wouldn't be so against the prospect of an Independent Scotland if I thought that those campaigning for it actually had done their homework and had prepared a full and honest prospectus on the vital issues of currency etc. And one that didn't leave us totally reliant on the agreement of any outside country or Institution like the EU after the vote for its success without stating that clearly and honestly. It was never in Salmond, Osborne, Balls or Alexander's gift to agree a Currency Union right now, and certainly not without a later Referendum in the rUK before any Westminster or Holyrood vote took place. Yet we are reduced to a debate which sees everyone squabbling about whether the UK is ganging up and bullying the Scots this week. Well the EU in the form of Barroso just waded in too, and maybe its time for Salmond & Co to stop trying to shoot the messengers and start addressing the gaping holes in their own ill prepared messages instead.
Wee rant over.
I didn't expect it to unravel so quickly.
So much for Salmond's strategy of nothing's going to change with independence.
The SNP won a landslide majority under a system specifically designed to prevent that.They also won the 2012 local elections in scotland and currently have Holyrood VI polling that would see them win comfortably again.
The scottish public rate the EU and currency 7th and 8th in their list of priorites for Independence with only a tiny 3% and 2% of the scottish public considering them most important.
That's the reality put against your laughably out of touch Cameroonian spin.
The incompetent fop Cammie is still getting beaten in the polls by little Ed while the kippers are nowhere near the 2010 levels of 3.1% that the chumocracy need.
In case it has somehow also escaped you yet again there are still more pandas than tory MPs in scotland and your predictions of a scottish tory surge are as hilarious as every other fantasy pronouncement you make.
Anyone listening to a scottish tory surger and old biddies from SCON to judge scottish public opinion is as gullible and idiotic as anyone who believes Cammie's Cast Iron Referendum pledges and posturing.
To be fair, you have on the one hand Salmond and Sturgeon negotiatng the future outside of the UK. Some people will prefer that to Cameron et al. attempting to negotiate the future half-in the EU, with a possible out as a consequence.
'The scottish public rate the EU and currency 7th and 8th in their list of priorites for Independence with only a tiny 3% and 2% of the scottish public considering them most important.'
So why is Salmond so upset and gone into tantrum / blackmailing mode regarding Scotland's share of UK debt if these are such minor issues?
By all means dive in for 'better together' since the average scot reading a PB tory dominated blog, with their ill-concealed fury over Independence, are bound to have their eyes opened.
The answer is of course that the tories and 'better together' have no positive vision of scotland whatsoever to offer to the scottish public.
Shall we put your laughable spin that the SNP relied on the tories to keep them in power along with your other barking mad conspiracy theories like the one where you claimed the SNP would do a deal with Cammie to save boundary changes?
ROFL
'The answer is of course that the tories and 'better together' have no positive vision of scotland whatsoever to offer to the scottish public.'
So now it's down to braveheart positive vision stuff,currency,living standards,pound in your pocket,EU membership all totally irrelevant and minor issues.
Still,you get the Queen as head of state & the BBC so not all bad.
'as anyone who believes Cammie's Cast Iron Referendum pledges and posturing.'
Salmond lied about EU membership,hid behind non existent legal advice and now's been told by Borroso it's not going to happen.
Anyone still gullible enough to believe Salmond's pledges?
So ask yourself this. How are scottish voters going to react to this choice?
Osborne and Cameron representing their interests in the EU when it is blatantly obvious all their focus is to try and keep a split tory party together. Or the SNP and those in the Yes campaign doing so so with their focus. To represent the interests of the scottish people inside the EU.
You'll have to negotiate your way back in, by no means a foregone conclusion with Spain and rUK having to agree.
'I hate to break it to you mate, but when you leave the UK, you also leave the EU'
In the separatist world every demand is expected to be met no matter if it doesn't suit the other party and when they say NO ,they are threatened & accused of bluff,bluster & bullying.
A truly awesome negotiating strategy.
chortle.
*chortle*
watching the Olympic coverage, proud sponsoring partners of Team USA include BP and BMW.
The US team bobsleds were built by BMW.
hmm.. good luck with this!
You seem to have a singularly unpleasant habit of insulting people and using childish nicknames for folks you disagree with politically, which makes it almost impossible to take you seriously.
I wll not indulge in that, and would urge you to refrain also.
Scotland belongs in the EU, and independence won't change that
My understanding is that the UK is in the EU. If Scotland leaves the UK, the UK will still be in the EU.
Scotland may well need to make its own deal for EU membership, and a currency too perhaps.
I'm delighted to leave it up to the scottish public as to who they think is arrogant and nasty after Osborne's amusingly cack-handed intervention. That you simply cannot conceive of your Cameroonian idols not being popular in scotland says all we need to know about just how out of touch with scottish public opinion you are.
http://notesfromnorthbritain.wordpress.com
Scotland is in a currency union within the UK and is a member of the EU because it is part of the UK.
If it votes to leave the UK, neither will apply.
Barroso is a Portuguese version of David Cameron or Mariano Rajoy. Formerly the Prime Minister of Portugal, Barroso introduced a unpopular programme of austerity cuts and wage freezes which did not go down well in Lisbon. He enthusiastically supported Bush and Blair in their illegal invasion of Iraq despite massive protests, and amidst mounting domestic pressure announced his resignation so he could go off and become EC President. His pals in the European Popular Party gave him a convenient excuse to run away to Brussels, and Portugal breathed a collective sigh of relief.
As the most prominent member of the European Popular Party, its successful candidate for the election to the EC Presidency, naturally Barroso will repeat the party line. He is after all a political appointee. But what he is saying is political manoeuvering , it’s not EU law or EU policy and has been rubbished on several previous occasions by real experts in EU law and EU enlargement, like Professor Graham Avery – most recently just a couple of weeks ago.
http://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/
My understanding is that the UK is in the EU. If Scotland leaves the UK, the UK will still be in the EU.
Scotland may well need to make its own deal for EU membership, and a currency too perhaps.
I am not aware of any connection between this and the GOP and Romney.
Again, when you lash out and insult rather than address the question, it says rather more about you than it does about me.
I have not insulted or demeaned you in any way, yet you feel the need to do that to me.
Never mind. I don't expect you to understand that any more than the posts and links already made which clearly addressed the EU scaremongering and exposed it so clearly for what it is.
But feel free to chip in as there was clearly a gaping hole in PB for those who know very little of scottish politics and how the scottish public might react to scaremongering on the EU. Particularly when it's official tory policy to have an IN/OUT referendum which even Cameron's coalition partners the lib dems have noticed and are now warning of the danger of leaving the EU under Cameron's plans in PPBs.
That's leave the EU. Not negotiate continued membership within the EU but leave.
OUT. No if's or buts. The scottish public have actually noticed that.
The EU Commission President or an anonymous Cybernat?
Tricky.....
Barroso is a Portuguese version of David Cameron or Mariano Rajoy. Formerly the Prime Minister of Portugal, Barroso introduced a unpopular programme of austerity cuts and wage freezes which did not go down well in Lisbon. He enthusiastically supported Bush and Blair in their illegal invasion of Iraq despite massive protests, and amidst mounting domestic pressure announced his resignation so he could go off and become EC President. His pals in the European Popular Party gave him a convenient excuse to run away to Brussels, and Portugal breathed a collective sigh of relief.
As the most prominent member of the European Popular Party, its successful candidate for the election to the EC Presidency, naturally Barroso will repeat the party line. He is after all a political appointee. But what he is saying is political manoeuvering , it’s not EU law or EU policy and has been rubbished on several previous occasions by real experts in EU law and EU enlargement, like Professor Graham Avery – most recently just a couple of weeks ago.
Who to believe? Some scottish tory surger old biddies?
*tears of laughter etc.