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Sunak’s way out line with opinion with his 20 MPH pledge – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,730
edited October 2023 in General
Sunak’s way out line with opinion with his 20 MPH pledge – politicalbetting.com

This is so odd. > 70% of people in tonnes of British Social Attitudes surveys support 20mph limits in residential areas. It *might* be true if you replace "British people" with "Conservative voters", but even then… https://t.co/jTkIcdODmo pic.twitter.com/3suetbAivR

Read the full story here

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  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,010
    edited September 2023
    He's really flogging the motorist's friend thing in dead horse fashion now and he just doesn't have the charisma to pull it off.

    Remember him using a member of the public's car to pretend to fill up at a petrol station. Nobody believes he actually cares about this stuff.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,556
    "Research" is overstating it. It's almost as though the whiz kids in No. 10 can't even do a quick Google search before coming up with another load of guff.

    If it wouldn't be utterly ridiculous, and possibly also suicidal, another leadership election might not be a bad idea.

    Mind you I do want to see Sunak campaiging, it should be at least as entertaining a May was.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,526
    Cookie said:

    I think the polling on this lacks a little nuance. 20mph on residential streets is one thing, 20mph on arterial S4s and dual carriageways quite another.
    As ever, this is solving the wrong problem. The problem is not that 30 is too fast, ut is that a small handful wildly exceed it. I have no problem with traffic passing my house at 30; I get a bit irritated when they go past at 50.

    Despite the misinformation we don't have any 20s on arterials and dual carriageways in Wales.

    We do have 50s that should be 70s on motorways.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,294
    Cookie said:

    I think the polling on this lacks a little nuance. 20mph on residential streets is one thing, 20mph on arterial S4s and dual carriageways quite another.
    As ever, this is solving the wrong problem. The problem is not that 30 is too fast, ut is that a small handful wildly exceed it. I have no problem with traffic passing my house at 30; I get a bit irritated when they go past at 50.

    @Dura_Ace isn't going to slow down, irrespective of the speed limit.
  • Options
    Cookie said:

    I think the polling on this lacks a little nuance. 20mph on residential streets is one thing, 20mph on arterial S4s and dual carriageways quite another.
    As ever, this is solving the wrong problem. The problem is not that 30 is too fast, ut is that a small handful wildly exceed it. I have no problem with traffic passing my house at 30; I get a bit irritated when they go past at 50.

    The Ducati shop at the end of the road does not help.

    I'm convinced some Sundays there are bikers racing the lap of Dane Rd and M60 J6 to J7 at stupid speeds.

    Can hear the bikes and occasionally see them flying passed.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,167
    Farooq said:

    I hate to break it to you but there's been a speed limit petition about this and the results are VERY clear:

    Wales has a higher population than India.

    Well, they did emigrate. Been reading this lunchtime about a railway to nowhere in the middle of even more FA in Patagonia and what do we find at the end? A bunch of Welsh-speakers.
  • Options
    Dianne Feinstein, Oldest Senator and a Fixture of California Politics, Dies at 90

    NY Times
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,592
    On topic, that's very outdated polling. There was a big polling majority for staying in the EU 2000-2009, wasn't there? Hell, there was a polling majority in favour of Labour governments for much of that period, too.

    I think I've seen more up to date polling on 20mph limits (and in favour) so it's an odd graph to use.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,188

    Dianne Feinstein, Oldest Senator and a Fixture of California Politics, Dies at 90

    NY Times

    RIP. What's the procedure for selecting a new senator?
  • Options
    Selebian said:

    On topic, that's very outdated polling. There was a big polling majority for staying in the EU 2000-2009, wasn't there? Hell, there was a polling majority in favour of Labour governments for much of that period, too.

    I think I've seen more up to date polling on 20mph limits (and in favour) so it's an odd graph to use.

    I am in favour of 20mph in many current 30mph zones, but it probably wouldnt shift my vote either way
  • Options
    Andy_JS said:

    Dianne Feinstein, Oldest Senator and a Fixture of California Politics, Dies at 90

    NY Times

    RIP. What's the procedure for selecting a new senator?
    "Gov. Gavin Newsom, who will chose someone to fill her seat." NY Times
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,154
    Andy_JS said:

    Dianne Feinstein, Oldest Senator and a Fixture of California Politics, Dies at 90

    NY Times

    RIP. What's the procedure for selecting a new senator?
    Picked by the State Governor, stand for election first opportunity.
  • Options

    Andy_JS said:

    Dianne Feinstein, Oldest Senator and a Fixture of California Politics, Dies at 90

    NY Times

    RIP. What's the procedure for selecting a new senator?
    "Gov. Gavin Newsom, who will chose someone to fill her seat." NY Times
    That is going to be interesting given how many their put their names forward
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,431
    Sunak is hopeless.

    At least Boris had drive, pun intended.
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,431
    TimS said:

    He's really flogging the motorist's friend thing in dead horse fashion now and he just doesn't have the charisma to pull it off.

    Remember him using a member of the public's car to pretend to fill up at a petrol station. Nobody believes he actually cares about this stuff.

    Why would he care when he can fly over their heads?
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    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    @Nigelb

    Well jel of your trip to Korea. I’ve been to Seoul and liked it a lot but never been beyond

    Any unexpected highlights? Or indeed expected ones?

    짜장면 (jJajangmyeon) as ubiquitous fast food. Love it.
    Old fashioned food markets - a hangover from before the economy became first world.
    The guys in the bulgogi restaurants agreeing to prep vegetarian dishes for my wife (after initial bemusement).
    An AirBnb with roof terrace in Seoul.
    The cheerful septuagenarians overtaking us on the way up Hallasan.
    Laundrette ajuma discussing 90s K-folk music with my wife...

    Lots of inconsequential stuff that was as interesting as the museums; palaces; temples etc.
    "The details of my life are quite inconsequential."
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    boulayboulay Posts: 4,142
    Farooq said:

    I hate to break it to you but there's been a speed limit petition about this and the results are VERY clear:

    Wales has a higher population than India.

    And as comedians in the 1970s showed us the accent is exactly the same.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    I think the polling on this lacks a little nuance. 20mph on residential streets is one thing, 20mph on arterial S4s and dual carriageways quite another.
    As ever, this is solving the wrong problem. The problem is not that 30 is too fast, ut is that a small handful wildly exceed it. I have no problem with traffic passing my house at 30; I get a bit irritated when they go past at 50.

    @Dura_Ace isn't going to slow down, irrespective of the speed limit.
    Seems to be PB's tame Russian Troll :lol:

    (but this is your barbeque @rcs1000 !)
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,089

    Andy_JS said:

    Dianne Feinstein, Oldest Senator and a Fixture of California Politics, Dies at 90

    NY Times

    RIP. What's the procedure for selecting a new senator?
    "Gov. Gavin Newsom, who will chose someone to fill her seat." NY Times
    That is going to be interesting given how many their put their names forward
    There’s a lot of people who want that Senate seat, it’s a job for life at the moment - hence Feinstein and Pelosi.

    A few names mentioned in this obituary.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=kr_F0h5k7Og
  • Options
    TimS said:

    He's really flogging the motorist's friend thing in dead horse fashion now and he just doesn't have the charisma to pull it off.

    Remember him using a member of the public's car to pretend to fill up at a petrol station. Nobody believes he actually cares about this stuff.

    Rishi "son-in-law of an Indian oligarch" Sunak.
  • Options

    Andy_JS said:

    Dianne Feinstein, Oldest Senator and a Fixture of California Politics, Dies at 90

    NY Times

    RIP. What's the procedure for selecting a new senator?
    "Gov. Gavin Newsom, who will chose someone to fill her seat." NY Times
    That is going to be interesting given how many their put their names forward
    It's separate to the regular election which is going on at the moment. Newsom has already said he'll appoint a black woman, and that he doesn't want to influence the eventual election; so that almost certainly means a caretaker who'll serve out the remainder of the term (until end of next year) and then step aside.
  • Options
    Good start in the Ryder Cup. Long way to go though.
  • Options
    Selebian said:

    On topic, that's very outdated polling. There was a big polling majority for staying in the EU 2000-2009, wasn't there? Hell, there was a polling majority in favour of Labour governments for much of that period, too.

    I think I've seen more up to date polling on 20mph limits (and in favour) so it's an odd graph to use.

    This is one of the problems with searching for things on the internet in recent years - there's a lot more old stuff than new stuff. It's often relatively easy to find a news story related to the topic, and to find some data related to the topic, but the most frequent data in your search results will be old data, and it can be really hard to find the most recent data, or even for the search to return the original source of the data.
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    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,370
    edited September 2023
    Yeah, you’re not reading into this thread header two basic principles of understanding surveys when you’re asking about virtuous stuff:

    a) people lie (even when anonymous) and give the “right answer”; and

    b) what people think is right for their road, on which their kids play, is different from what they think about the road they drive down elsewhere.

    See, statistical analysis lessons passim.
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,272
    Well now.

    "Las Vegas police arrest man in connection with murder of rapper Tupac Shakur in 1996"
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    boulayboulay Posts: 4,142
    carnforth said:

    Well now.

    "Las Vegas police arrest man in connection with murder of rapper Tupac Shakur in 1996"

    Poor Donald Trump, he just can’t escape his misdeeds.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,304
    Depends which poll you look at, this Yougov poll had 38% opposed. Including 52% of Conservative voters

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2022/07/14/874c7/3
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,304

    Dianne Feinstein, Oldest Senator and a Fixture of California Politics, Dies at 90

    NY Times

    RIP a titan of the Senate though she should have retired a decade ago
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,431
    carnforth said:

    Well now.

    "Las Vegas police arrest man in connection with murder of rapper Tupac Shakur in 1996"

    A music fan ?
  • Options
    AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 811
    Selebian said:

    On topic, that's very outdated polling. There was a big polling majority for staying in the EU 2000-2009, wasn't there? Hell, there was a polling majority in favour of Labour governments for much of that period, too.

    I think I've seen more up to date polling on 20mph limits (and in favour) so it's an odd graph to use.

    Sure, but the results have been pretty stable over time. This question is now part of the National Transport Attitudes survey rather than BSA, and the most recent data I easily found was from 2020:



    I don't see any reason why it would have changed significantly since then.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,029
    AlsoLei said:

    Selebian said:

    On topic, that's very outdated polling. There was a big polling majority for staying in the EU 2000-2009, wasn't there? Hell, there was a polling majority in favour of Labour governments for much of that period, too.

    I think I've seen more up to date polling on 20mph limits (and in favour) so it's an odd graph to use.

    Sure, but the results have been pretty stable over time. This question is now part of the National Transport Attitudes survey rather than BSA, and the most recent data I easily found was from 2020:



    I don't see any reason why it would have changed significantly since then.
    Is there polling on "speed limits of 30mph in residential streets"?
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    LennonLennon Posts: 1,739

    Andy_JS said:

    Dianne Feinstein, Oldest Senator and a Fixture of California Politics, Dies at 90

    NY Times

    RIP. What's the procedure for selecting a new senator?
    "Gov. Gavin Newsom, who will chose someone to fill her seat." NY Times
    That is going to be interesting given how many their put their names forward
    It's separate to the regular election which is going on at the moment. Newsom has already said he'll appoint a black woman, and that he doesn't want to influence the eventual election; so that almost certainly means a caretaker who'll serve out the remainder of the term (until end of next year) and then step aside.
    Cue appointing Kamala Harris and giving Biden an excuse to replace her on the ticket next year?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,089
    biggles said:

    Yeah, you’re not reading into this thread header two basic principles of understanding surveys when you’re asking about virtuous stuff:

    a) people lie (even when anonymous) and give the “right answer”; and

    b) what people think is right for their road, on which their kids play, is different from what they think about the road they drive down elsewhere.

    See, statistical analysis lessons passim.

    It’s one of those subjects where the exact wording of the question can make a huge difference to the answer.

    Small roads around a housing estate might be one person’s view of “residential streets”, as opposed to the main road through a small town or village.
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    AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 811
    RobD said:

    AlsoLei said:

    Selebian said:

    On topic, that's very outdated polling. There was a big polling majority for staying in the EU 2000-2009, wasn't there? Hell, there was a polling majority in favour of Labour governments for much of that period, too.

    I think I've seen more up to date polling on 20mph limits (and in favour) so it's an odd graph to use.

    Sure, but the results have been pretty stable over time. This question is now part of the National Transport Attitudes survey rather than BSA, and the most recent data I easily found was from 2020:



    I don't see any reason why it would have changed significantly since then.
    Is there polling on "speed limits of 30mph in residential streets"?
    Adequately captured by "not in favour", I'd have thought. Are there many residential streets in built-up areas with a higher limit?
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    boulayboulay Posts: 4,142
    Lennon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Dianne Feinstein, Oldest Senator and a Fixture of California Politics, Dies at 90

    NY Times

    RIP. What's the procedure for selecting a new senator?
    "Gov. Gavin Newsom, who will chose someone to fill her seat." NY Times
    That is going to be interesting given how many their put their names forward
    It's separate to the regular election which is going on at the moment. Newsom has already said he'll appoint a black woman, and that he doesn't want to influence the eventual election; so that almost certainly means a caretaker who'll serve out the remainder of the term (until end of next year) and then step aside.
    Cue appointing Kamala Harris and giving Biden an excuse to replace her on the ticket next year?
    No way, it’s time for Markle to sparkle.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,582

    Cookie said:

    I think the polling on this lacks a little nuance. 20mph on residential streets is one thing, 20mph on arterial S4s and dual carriageways quite another.
    As ever, this is solving the wrong problem. The problem is not that 30 is too fast, ut is that a small handful wildly exceed it. I have no problem with traffic passing my house at 30; I get a bit irritated when they go past at 50.

    The Ducati shop at the end of the road does not help.

    I'm convinced some Sundays there are bikers racing the lap of Dane Rd and M60 J6 to J7 at stupid speeds.

    Can hear the bikes and occasionally see them flying passed.
    Oh, I know. And they go in convoys 20-30 strong.
    I'd never twigged it was because of the Ducatti shop though.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,029
    AlsoLei said:

    RobD said:

    AlsoLei said:

    Selebian said:

    On topic, that's very outdated polling. There was a big polling majority for staying in the EU 2000-2009, wasn't there? Hell, there was a polling majority in favour of Labour governments for much of that period, too.

    I think I've seen more up to date polling on 20mph limits (and in favour) so it's an odd graph to use.

    Sure, but the results have been pretty stable over time. This question is now part of the National Transport Attitudes survey rather than BSA, and the most recent data I easily found was from 2020:



    I don't see any reason why it would have changed significantly since then.
    Is there polling on "speed limits of 30mph in residential streets"?
    Adequately captured by "not in favour", I'd have thought. Are there many residential streets in built-up areas with a higher limit?
    The delta between the two would have been interesting. I suspect the numbers would have been quite similar.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Depends which poll you look at, this Yougov poll had 38% opposed. Including 52% of Conservative voters

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2022/07/14/874c7/3

    And 48% in favour!
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,582
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    I think the polling on this lacks a little nuance. 20mph on residential streets is one thing, 20mph on arterial S4s and dual carriageways quite another.
    As ever, this is solving the wrong problem. The problem is not that 30 is too fast, ut is that a small handful wildly exceed it. I have no problem with traffic passing my house at 30; I get a bit irritated when they go past at 50.

    @Dura_Ace isn't going to slow down, irrespective of the speed limit.
    Well quite. The problem isn't the rules, it's that people don't follow them.
    Actually, the problem isn't that people don't follow the rules, it's that people's reaction to that is to tighten the rules, rather than to enforce them.
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,370
    RobD said:

    AlsoLei said:

    RobD said:

    AlsoLei said:

    Selebian said:

    On topic, that's very outdated polling. There was a big polling majority for staying in the EU 2000-2009, wasn't there? Hell, there was a polling majority in favour of Labour governments for much of that period, too.

    I think I've seen more up to date polling on 20mph limits (and in favour) so it's an odd graph to use.

    Sure, but the results have been pretty stable over time. This question is now part of the National Transport Attitudes survey rather than BSA, and the most recent data I easily found was from 2020:



    I don't see any reason why it would have changed significantly since then.
    Is there polling on "speed limits of 30mph in residential streets"?
    Adequately captured by "not in favour", I'd have thought. Are there many residential streets in built-up areas with a higher limit?
    The delta between the two would have been interesting. I suspect the numbers would have been quite similar.
    In my experience, locally, most view a 20 limit as advisory and relevant mainly at school drop off/pick up time. They view it as 30 the rest of the time. But as noted above, they might still say they are in favour because no one asked them about enforcement.
  • Options
    Regardless of the merits or otherwise of 20mph on residential streets, what business is it of Sunak's? If local councils (or the Welsh government) impose them, then voters can exercise their views via the ballot box (as they did in Brighton recently, to an extent).
    Democracy is a key British value, Rishi.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    I think the polling on this lacks a little nuance. 20mph on residential streets is one thing, 20mph on arterial S4s and dual carriageways quite another.
    As ever, this is solving the wrong problem. The problem is not that 30 is too fast, ut is that a small handful wildly exceed it. I have no problem with traffic passing my house at 30; I get a bit irritated when they go past at 50.

    @Dura_Ace isn't going to slow down, irrespective of the speed limit.
    He’ll slow down if you can catch him
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,887
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Dianne Feinstein, Oldest Senator and a Fixture of California Politics, Dies at 90

    NY Times

    RIP. What's the procedure for selecting a new senator?
    "Gov. Gavin Newsom, who will chose someone to fill her seat." NY Times
    That is going to be interesting given how many their put their names forward
    There’s a lot of people who want that Senate seat, it’s a job for life at the moment - hence Feinstein and Pelosi.

    A few names mentioned in this obituary.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=kr_F0h5k7Og
    More than that - whoever Newson appoints will be the presumptive nominee for the next election. Without having to go through the whole party selection process - which would normally be a bitter battle between many rivals.
  • Options
    Andy_JS said:

    Dianne Feinstein, Oldest Senator and a Fixture of California Politics, Dies at 90

    NY Times

    RIP. What's the procedure for selecting a new senator?
    And can Newsom appoint himself?
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,370
    edited September 2023

    Regardless of the merits or otherwise of 20mph on residential streets, what business is it of Sunak's? If local councils (or the Welsh government) impose them, then voters can exercise their views via the ballot box (as they did in Brighton recently, to an extent).
    Democracy is a key British value, Rishi.

    I take your point, but residential streets are a bit different. Absent signs, we all assume 30. Is that now true in Wales or should I assume 20? I don’t know the answer, and unlike the Scottish border, England/Wales can be streets apart.

    For some roads I think you need a national standard. See also motorways and dual carriageways.
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    HYUFD said:

    Depends which poll you look at, this Yougov poll had 38% opposed. Including 52% of Conservative voters

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2022/07/14/874c7/3

    Urban areas vs residential streets.

    Im okay with it in residential but against if its the default for urban.
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    AlsoLei said:

    Selebian said:

    On topic, that's very outdated polling. There was a big polling majority for staying in the EU 2000-2009, wasn't there? Hell, there was a polling majority in favour of Labour governments for much of that period, too.

    I think I've seen more up to date polling on 20mph limits (and in favour) so it's an odd graph to use.

    Sure, but the results have been pretty stable over time. This question is now part of the National Transport Attitudes survey rather than BSA, and the most recent data I easily found was from 2020:



    I don't see any reason why it would have changed significantly since then.
    That’s a pretty leading question
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,219

    Dianne Feinstein, Oldest Senator and a Fixture of California Politics, Dies at 90

    NY Times

    Captured on @cspan: Dianne Feinstein's final Senate vote, at around 12:50PM yesterday, on the continuing resolution to keep the government open:
    https://twitter.com/sambrodey/status/1707786268065624463
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,167
    biggles said:

    Regardless of the merits or otherwise of 20mph on residential streets, what business is it of Sunak's? If local councils (or the Welsh government) impose them, then voters can exercise their views via the ballot box (as they did in Brighton recently, to an extent).
    Democracy is a key British value, Rishi.

    I take your point, but residential streets are a bit different. Absent signs, we all assume 30. Is that now true in Wales or should I assume 20? I don’t know the answer, and unlike the Scottish border, England/Wales can be streets apart.

    For some roads I think you need a national standard. See also motorways and dual carriageways.
    Scottish Borders are 20mph, courtesy the local Tories.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,582

    Regardless of the merits or otherwise of 20mph on residential streets, what business is it of Sunak's? If local councils (or the Welsh government) impose them, then voters can exercise their views via the ballot box (as they did in Brighton recently, to an extent).
    Democracy is a key British value, Rishi.

    I'm fairly sure Lancashire County Council (which covers a population not that much smallet than that of Wales) introduced something similar a few years back to almost no reaction whatsoever.
    But then, Lancashire County Council don't have Mark Drakeford.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,167
    Re Prime Ministers and transport policy - complete with obligatory Brunelian reference (as discussed yesterday, not a happy precursor):

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12575763/BORIS-JOHNSON-not-scrap-hs2-manchester-leg.html

    'The same principle could be applied in Manchester, where it is estimated that the northern leg would unleash growth worth £100 billion. We simply cannot afford to abandon this vision now — to panic, and throw up our hands, and say it is all too difficult.'
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    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,810
    edited September 2023
    I am pretty certain a child fatality will soon be identified which would have been avoided if the speed limit was reduced to 20. That will be the end of this policy.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,223
    On the subject of 20mph, I heard the other day through work that one of the main reasons safety people are keen on 20mph is that electric vehicles weigh more. It makes sense, though I guess those in favour of the limit don't want to make this argument as it will annoy people who don't like electric vehicles.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,188
    "American bully XL-type thought to have injured Coventry pair
    Published 4 hours ago"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-66959145
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,223
    On another subject...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66942594

    A 17-year-old boy has appeared in court charged with murdering 15-year-old Elianne Andam in south London.

    The boy, who cannot legally be named because of his age, is also charged with possessing a kitchen knife in a public place without good reason.


    If votes are going to be given to 16 and 17 year olds, then this law needs to change as well.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,219
    The jockeying for Dianne Feinstein’s seat has already begun

    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/29/feinstein-death-senate-seat-contest-00119079
    ...Newsom has committed to selecting a Black woman but said he would choose a short-term replacement rather than elevate one of the candidates running to replace Feinstein. That creates a complicated political calculation: Newsom must find a candidate who is both qualified for the job but would also be satisfied with a brief tenure and willing to give up any current elected position...
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    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,370
    darkage said:

    I am pretty certain a child fatality will soon be identified which would have been avoided if the speed limit was reduced to 20. That will be the end of this policy.

    Except that there will be other fatalities where it would be avoided if it was 10. So why not 10, or 5 like in a packed building site?

    The answer is that we train drivers properly and hold them to account. 30 (or 20) is the maximum speed limit. You go more slowly depending on risk. Trying to police that with ever changing, specific speeds for specific areas is silly.

    But I take the point above, where it be done and not be confusing we can devolve the decision.

    (Allowing for the fact that my actual preference is to abolish local Government altogether).
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,188

    Andy_JS said:

    Dianne Feinstein, Oldest Senator and a Fixture of California Politics, Dies at 90

    NY Times

    RIP. What's the procedure for selecting a new senator?
    And can Newsom appoint himself?
    I was wondering about that.
  • Options

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Dianne Feinstein, Oldest Senator and a Fixture of California Politics, Dies at 90

    NY Times

    RIP. What's the procedure for selecting a new senator?
    "Gov. Gavin Newsom, who will chose someone to fill her seat." NY Times
    That is going to be interesting given how many their put their names forward
    There’s a lot of people who want that Senate seat, it’s a job for life at the moment - hence Feinstein and Pelosi.

    A few names mentioned in this obituary.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=kr_F0h5k7Og
    More than that - whoever Newson appoints will be the presumptive nominee for the next election. Without having to go through the whole party selection process - which would normally be a bitter battle between many rivals.
    No, they won't. Newsom has said he won't taint the (already underway) election campaign by appointing someone other than a caretaker.
  • Options
    boulay said:

    Lennon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Dianne Feinstein, Oldest Senator and a Fixture of California Politics, Dies at 90

    NY Times

    RIP. What's the procedure for selecting a new senator?
    "Gov. Gavin Newsom, who will chose someone to fill her seat." NY Times
    That is going to be interesting given how many their put their names forward
    It's separate to the regular election which is going on at the moment. Newsom has already said he'll appoint a black woman, and that he doesn't want to influence the eventual election; so that almost certainly means a caretaker who'll serve out the remainder of the term (until end of next year) and then step aside.
    Cue appointing Kamala Harris and giving Biden an excuse to replace her on the ticket next year?
    No way, it’s time for Markle to sparkle.
    Would make McGovern's performance election look like a triumph.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,154
    tlg86 said:

    On another subject...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66942594

    A 17-year-old boy has appeared in court charged with murdering 15-year-old Elianne Andam in south London.

    The boy, who cannot legally be named because of his age, is also charged with possessing a kitchen knife in a public place without good reason.


    If votes are going to be given to 16 and 17 year olds, then this law needs to change as well.

    Sounds like a disappointed ‘lover’ or something similar to me.
    “If i can’t have you, nobody else will!”
    Sadly, in a fortnight or so, another love would have come along!

    Tragic.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,089
    Nigelb said:

    The jockeying for Dianne Feinstein’s seat has already begun

    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/29/feinstein-death-senate-seat-contest-00119079
    ...Newsom has committed to selecting a Black woman but said he would choose a short-term replacement rather than elevate one of the candidates running to replace Feinstein. That creates a complicated political calculation: Newsom must find a candidate who is both qualified for the job but would also be satisfied with a brief tenure and willing to give up any current elected position...

    Newsom may think he’s appointing a caretaker, but you can bet that whoever he does appoint will very much want to be in the race for the permanent seat.
  • Options

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Dianne Feinstein, Oldest Senator and a Fixture of California Politics, Dies at 90

    NY Times

    RIP. What's the procedure for selecting a new senator?
    "Gov. Gavin Newsom, who will chose someone to fill her seat." NY Times
    That is going to be interesting given how many their put their names forward
    There’s a lot of people who want that Senate seat, it’s a job for life at the moment - hence Feinstein and Pelosi.

    A few names mentioned in this obituary.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=kr_F0h5k7Og
    More than that - whoever Newson appoints will be the presumptive nominee for the next election. Without having to go through the whole party selection process - which would normally be a bitter battle between many rivals.
    No, they won't. Newsom has said he won't taint the (already underway) election campaign by appointing someone other than a caretaker.
    What a shame Barry Chuckle passed away a few years ago. If I know him and Paul like I think I do, they would've loved to step up in a caretaker capacity.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,431
    edited September 2023
    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    Sunak is hopeless.

    At least Boris had drive, pun intended.

    He must be gutted to be so hopeless. He’s just a millionaire who married a billionaire and became PM after a successful career and a high achieving university education. I guess as he looks down from his helicopter a tiny tear rolls down his tiny face thinking he could have achieved the state of keeping boiled water in a thermos and haranguing people with his stick in supermarkets. What a loser he is.
    Rather an unnecessarily snide response, if I may say but de rigueur for the macho posturing on here, which is why I seldom frequent the site after my morning cuppa.

    I have had huge success in my life if we assess a life by such measures as public profile, influence, impact etc. but you know nothing of this because I never talk about it, and remain behind a VPN.

    Of course, I didn't marry a husband with millions upon millions and nor did I become a member of parliament. But, then, I have little but contempt for both. They do not bring happiness.

    Nevertheless, we must judge people according to what they set out to achieve. As a Prime Minister (if not as a husband, father, wealth inheritor, wealth creator, Wykehamist, mathematician, headboy) Rishi Sunak is an abysmal failure. One of the worst Prime Ministers of my lifetime, even by recent low standards. An unelected Prime Minister who is utterly useless at the one job by which we, the ordinary voter, must assess him.

    On the only thing which actually now matters: the job for which he will be marked, he gets 0/100.


  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    Re Prime Ministers and transport policy - complete with obligatory Brunelian reference (as discussed yesterday, not a happy precursor):

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12575763/BORIS-JOHNSON-not-scrap-hs2-manchester-leg.html

    'The same principle could be applied in Manchester, where it is estimated that the northern leg would unleash growth worth £100 billion. We simply cannot afford to abandon this vision now — to panic, and throw up our hands, and say it is all too difficult.'

    From same Boris piece:

    In the universities of ­Beijing, they teach a course in political science in which they dwell — as you might expect — on the ­disadvantages of democracy.

    To prove to their avid communist ­students that democratically elected ­politicians are chronically unable to take decisions that are in the interests of the whole nation, the Chinese politics ­professors have a text from the UK. It is a story, they say, that tells you all you need to know about political weakness, about chopping and changing, and craven short-term decision making.

    Yup — their theme is HS2, where the contrast with Chinese high-speed rail is already embarrassing, if not frankly ­humiliating.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,431
    And another 20% Labour lead in today's latest opinion poll.

    Wow, Sunak's doing well ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
  • Options
    Heathener said:

    And another 20% Labour lead in today's latest opinion poll.

    Wow, Sunak's doing well ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

    But will LAB be 20% ahead in the GE exit poll??
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    Yeah, you’re not reading into this thread header two basic principles of understanding surveys when you’re asking about virtuous stuff:

    a) people lie (even when anonymous) and give the “right answer”; and

    b) what people think is right for their road, on which their kids play, is different from what they think about the road they drive down elsewhere.

    See, statistical analysis lessons passim.

    It’s one of those subjects where the exact wording of the question can make a huge difference to the answer.

    Small roads around a housing estate might be one person’s view of “residential streets”, as opposed to the main road through a small town or village.
    Yes.

    Cul de sacs then 20 is plenty.

    Through roads, 30 is low, 40 would be preferable if possible.
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,824
    edited September 2023
    Cookie said:

    Regardless of the merits or otherwise of 20mph on residential streets, what business is it of Sunak's? If local councils (or the Welsh government) impose them, then voters can exercise their views via the ballot box (as they did in Brighton recently, to an extent).
    Democracy is a key British value, Rishi.

    I'm fairly sure Lancashire County Council (which covers a population not that much smallet than that of Wales) introduced something similar a few years back to almost no reaction whatsoever.
    But then, Lancashire County Council don't have Mark Drakeford.
    They did?

    News to me if so, and I drive a lot in Lancashire.

    Maybe if they did it was in cul de sacs only and not through roads, which is entirely reasonable. Or maybe you've got wrong end of the stick?
  • Options
    Pretty solid 60% support for keeping triple lock pensions in Mail survey.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,154

    Carnyx said:

    Re Prime Ministers and transport policy - complete with obligatory Brunelian reference (as discussed yesterday, not a happy precursor):

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12575763/BORIS-JOHNSON-not-scrap-hs2-manchester-leg.html

    'The same principle could be applied in Manchester, where it is estimated that the northern leg would unleash growth worth £100 billion. We simply cannot afford to abandon this vision now — to panic, and throw up our hands, and say it is all too difficult.'

    From same Boris piece:

    In the universities of ­Beijing, they teach a course in political science in which they dwell — as you might expect — on the ­disadvantages of democracy.

    To prove to their avid communist ­students that democratically elected ­politicians are chronically unable to take decisions that are in the interests of the whole nation, the Chinese politics ­professors have a text from the UK. It is a story, they say, that tells you all you need to know about political weakness, about chopping and changing, and craven short-term decision making.

    Yup — their theme is HS2, where the contrast with Chinese high-speed rail is already embarrassing, if not frankly ­humiliating.
    Johnson and the Mail. Hmmm. Credibility problem.
  • Options
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Dianne Feinstein, Oldest Senator and a Fixture of California Politics, Dies at 90

    NY Times

    RIP. What's the procedure for selecting a new senator?
    And can Newsom appoint himself?
    I was wondering about that.
    Likewise
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,294

    Andy_JS said:

    Dianne Feinstein, Oldest Senator and a Fixture of California Politics, Dies at 90

    NY Times

    RIP. What's the procedure for selecting a new senator?
    "Gov. Gavin Newsom, who will chose someone to fill her seat." NY Times
    That is going to be interesting given how many their put their names forward
    I have had to withdraw my name. Candidly, America is not ready for my genius.
  • Options
    Holiday homes in Conwy about to experience large council tax increases, which I would suggest is largely supported by the residents of the County:-

    One North Wales council could soon be charging the highest second homes tax in the country. Councillors on Conwy council will be asked in the coming weeks to decide on the level of Council Tax Premium on second homes and long term empty homes for 2024/25.

    The rate is currently 50% but the recommendation is to move to 100% by April 2024. This move is fairly in line with some other counties and below the 150% charged in Gwynedd.

    But members will also be asked to recommend an indicative level of premium of 200% on second and empty homes from April 1 2025. The maximum that can be charged under Welsh Government rules is 300%.
  • Options
    SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 6,382
    edited September 2023
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    The jockeying for Dianne Feinstein’s seat has already begun

    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/29/feinstein-death-senate-seat-contest-00119079
    ...Newsom has committed to selecting a Black woman but said he would choose a short-term replacement rather than elevate one of the candidates running to replace Feinstein. That creates a complicated political calculation: Newsom must find a candidate who is both qualified for the job but would also be satisfied with a brief tenure and willing to give up any current elected position...

    Newsom may think he’s appointing a caretaker, but you can bet that whoever he does appoint will very much want to be in the race for the permanent seat.
    He can pretty easily avoid that. They've only got until early December to file for the Senate race anyway, and he simply gets them to immediately publicly pledge they are doing it for one year only. Is that legally binding? Not technically, but they'd need to do the dirty so quickly and obviously that their credibility would be ruined.

    I don't know that this is being written up as all that much of a problem for Newsom. It's the largest state in the US with a deep Democrat bench. He's boxed himself in slightly with a pledge to choose a black female candidate, but even with that limitation on his range of options there's absolutely bound to be a few retired congresswomen, state senators, Berkeley professors or whoever who'll do a perfectly competent turn for 12 months, get their name on the honours board, thank Gavin profusely, and return to relative obscurity. It's a nice gig.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,294
    Cookie said:

    Regardless of the merits or otherwise of 20mph on residential streets, what business is it of Sunak's? If local councils (or the Welsh government) impose them, then voters can exercise their views via the ballot box (as they did in Brighton recently, to an extent).
    Democracy is a key British value, Rishi.

    I'm fairly sure Lancashire County Council (which covers a population not that much smallet than that of Wales) introduced something similar a few years back to almost no reaction whatsoever.
    But then, Lancashire County Council don't have Mark Drakeford.
    Please, show some respect. It's "The Drake".
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    boulay said:

    Lennon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Dianne Feinstein, Oldest Senator and a Fixture of California Politics, Dies at 90

    NY Times

    RIP. What's the procedure for selecting a new senator?
    "Gov. Gavin Newsom, who will chose someone to fill her seat." NY Times
    That is going to be interesting given how many their put their names forward
    It's separate to the regular election which is going on at the moment. Newsom has already said he'll appoint a black woman, and that he doesn't want to influence the eventual election; so that almost certainly means a caretaker who'll serve out the remainder of the term (until end of next year) and then step aside.
    Cue appointing Kamala Harris and giving Biden an excuse to replace her on the ticket next year?
    No way, it’s time for Markle to sparkle.
    That's actually a brilliant plan.

    If Meghan Markle were to become the Junior Democratic Senator for California then Donald Trump would have an aneurism, thus taking him out of the race for next US President, and saving American democracy.

    Governor Newsom, you know it makes sense.
    As a positive externality, the Mail might just self combust too boosting the standards of journalism in this country.

    And the candidate who fills the seat isn't taking it permanently, they're just a spare filling in until the real intended steps forward. Her family has some experience of that.

    Come on Meghan, it's your time to serve.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,209

    Selebian said:

    On topic, that's very outdated polling. There was a big polling majority for staying in the EU 2000-2009, wasn't there? Hell, there was a polling majority in favour of Labour governments for much of that period, too.

    I think I've seen more up to date polling on 20mph limits (and in favour) so it's an odd graph to use.

    This is one of the problems with searching for things on the internet in recent years - there's a lot more old stuff than new stuff. It's often relatively easy to find a news story related to the topic, and to find some data related to the topic, but the most frequent data in your search results will be old data, and it can be really hard to find the most recent data, or even for the search to return the original source of the data.
    Made worse by Google's decision to remove the "sort by date" option. However under "tools" you do have the option to specify the date range,

  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,154

    Holiday homes in Conwy about to experience large council tax increases, which I would suggest is largely supported by the residents of the County:-

    One North Wales council could soon be charging the highest second homes tax in the country. Councillors on Conwy council will be asked in the coming weeks to decide on the level of Council Tax Premium on second homes and long term empty homes for 2024/25.

    The rate is currently 50% but the recommendation is to move to 100% by April 2024. This move is fairly in line with some other counties and below the 150% charged in Gwynedd.

    But members will also be asked to recommend an indicative level of premium of 200% on second and empty homes from April 1 2025. The maximum that can be charged under Welsh Government rules is 300%.

    What’s the rate in Ynys Mon?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,887

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Dianne Feinstein, Oldest Senator and a Fixture of California Politics, Dies at 90

    NY Times

    RIP. What's the procedure for selecting a new senator?
    "Gov. Gavin Newsom, who will chose someone to fill her seat." NY Times
    That is going to be interesting given how many their put their names forward
    There’s a lot of people who want that Senate seat, it’s a job for life at the moment - hence Feinstein and Pelosi.

    A few names mentioned in this obituary.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=kr_F0h5k7Og
    More than that - whoever Newson appoints will be the presumptive nominee for the next election. Without having to go through the whole party selection process - which would normally be a bitter battle between many rivals.
    No, they won't. Newsom has said he won't taint the (already underway) election campaign by appointing someone other than a caretaker.
    He can’t unappoint - whoever gets it will be the incumbent with a vast advantage.
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    Re Prime Ministers and transport policy - complete with obligatory Brunelian reference (as discussed yesterday, not a happy precursor):

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12575763/BORIS-JOHNSON-not-scrap-hs2-manchester-leg.html

    'The same principle could be applied in Manchester, where it is estimated that the northern leg would unleash growth worth £100 billion. We simply cannot afford to abandon this vision now — to panic, and throw up our hands, and say it is all too difficult.'

    To give you an idea of China's problems, one company, Country Garden, has more liabilities on its books than that estimated growth.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 4,142
    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    Sunak is hopeless.

    At least Boris had drive, pun intended.

    He must be gutted to be so hopeless. He’s just a millionaire who married a billionaire and became PM after a successful career and a high achieving university education. I guess as he looks down from his helicopter a tiny tear rolls down his tiny face thinking he could have achieved the state of keeping boiled water in a thermos and haranguing people with his stick in supermarkets. What a loser he is.
    Rather an unnecessarily snide response, if I may say but de rigueur for the macho posturing on here, which is why I seldom frequent the site after my morning cuppa.

    I have had huge success in my life if we assess a life by such measures as public profile, influence, impact etc. but you know nothing of this because I never talk about it, and remain behind a VPN.

    Of course, I didn't marry a husband with millions upon millions and nor did I become a member of parliament. But, then, I have little but contempt for both. They do not bring happiness.

    Nevertheless, we must judge people according to what they set out to achieve. As a Prime Minister (if not as a husband, father, wealth inheritor, wealth creator, Wykehamist, mathematician, headboy) Rishi Sunak is an abysmal failure. One of the worst Prime Ministers of my lifetime, even by recent low standards. An unelected Prime Minister who is utterly useless at the one job by which we, the ordinary voter, must assess him.

    On the only thing which actually now matters: the job for which he will be marked, he gets 0/100.


    You shouldn’t let life get to you like this. Have a cup of tea and not an aneurism.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    boulay said:

    Lennon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Dianne Feinstein, Oldest Senator and a Fixture of California Politics, Dies at 90

    NY Times

    RIP. What's the procedure for selecting a new senator?
    "Gov. Gavin Newsom, who will chose someone to fill her seat." NY Times
    That is going to be interesting given how many their put their names forward
    It's separate to the regular election which is going on at the moment. Newsom has already said he'll appoint a black woman, and that he doesn't want to influence the eventual election; so that almost certainly means a caretaker who'll serve out the remainder of the term (until end of next year) and then step aside.
    Cue appointing Kamala Harris and giving Biden an excuse to replace her on the ticket next year?
    No way, it’s time for Markle to sparkle.
    That's actually a brilliant plan.

    If Meghan Markle were to become the Junior Democratic Senator for California then Donald Trump would have an aneurism, thus taking him out of the race for next US President, and saving American democracy.

    Governor Newsom, you know it makes sense.
    Or they could appoint Trump's niece who sees him for what he is or for the laughs Stormy Daniels.
  • Options

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Dianne Feinstein, Oldest Senator and a Fixture of California Politics, Dies at 90

    NY Times

    RIP. What's the procedure for selecting a new senator?
    "Gov. Gavin Newsom, who will chose someone to fill her seat." NY Times
    That is going to be interesting given how many their put their names forward
    There’s a lot of people who want that Senate seat, it’s a job for life at the moment - hence Feinstein and Pelosi.

    A few names mentioned in this obituary.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=kr_F0h5k7Og
    More than that - whoever Newson appoints will be the presumptive nominee for the next election. Without having to go through the whole party selection process - which would normally be a bitter battle between many rivals.
    No, they won't. Newsom has said he won't taint the (already underway) election campaign by appointing someone other than a caretaker.
    He can’t unappoint - whoever gets it will be the incumbent with a vast advantage.
    The filing deadline for the California Senate race is early December. If Newsom makes it clear that his choice has committed to not running, they realistically aren't running.

    The likelihood is, anyway, that he'll choose a senior worthy who honestly isn't bothered about trying to pull a fast one for the chance of a six year term and is just pleased to get on the honours board.

    People are over-complicating a relatively straightforward issue for Newsom (that he's had plenty of time to think about as Feinstein hasn't been the very picture of health.
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,107
    Instead of trying to tackle the big issues the poisoned dwarf is droning on about 20 mph zones .

    Maybe the public might be realizing this too and the more deflection he attempts the more this leads to even more voter anger at the waste of space .
  • Options
    The idea Gen Z are all vegetarian and vegan is bullshit.

    I've just seen a sign-up list of 65 of them for an event I'm running that asks about special dietary requirements and only 9 are vegetarian or vegan (only 4 are vegan).

    Everyone else? Normal.
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    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    Sunak is hopeless.

    At least Boris had drive, pun intended.

    He must be gutted to be so hopeless. He’s just a millionaire who married a billionaire and became PM after a successful career and a high achieving university education. I guess as he looks down from his helicopter a tiny tear rolls down his tiny face thinking he could have achieved the state of keeping boiled water in a thermos and haranguing people with his stick in supermarkets. What a loser he is.
    Your spirited defence of our worst ever PM is touching. They certainly seem to breed them loyal at your school, if managing to impart few other skills.
  • Options
    AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 811
    biggles said:

    Regardless of the merits or otherwise of 20mph on residential streets, what business is it of Sunak's? If local councils (or the Welsh government) impose them, then voters can exercise their views via the ballot box (as they did in Brighton recently, to an extent).
    Democracy is a key British value, Rishi.

    I take your point, but residential streets are a bit different. Absent signs, we all assume 30. Is that now true in Wales or should I assume 20? I don’t know the answer, and unlike the Scottish border, England/Wales can be streets apart.

    For some roads I think you need a national standard. See also motorways and dual carriageways.
    In Wales, if you can see streetlights and houses assume it's 20.

    Same in London:


    (green lines are 20mph, blue are 30. That map is 3 years old - all of the remaining blue lines in Camden, Islington, Hackney, Haringey, Tower Hamlets, and the northern sections of Lambeth and Southwark have now green.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,582

    Cookie said:

    Regardless of the merits or otherwise of 20mph on residential streets, what business is it of Sunak's? If local councils (or the Welsh government) impose them, then voters can exercise their views via the ballot box (as they did in Brighton recently, to an extent).
    Democracy is a key British value, Rishi.

    I'm fairly sure Lancashire County Council (which covers a population not that much smallet than that of Wales) introduced something similar a few years back to almost no reaction whatsoever.
    But then, Lancashire County Council don't have Mark Drakeford.
    They did?

    News to me if so, and I drive a lot in Lancashire.

    Maybe if they did it was in cul de sacs only and not through roads, which is entirely reasonable. Or maybe you've got wrong end of the stick?
    https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/council/strategies-policies-plans/roads-parking-and-travel/20mph-areas/

    I don't know how all-pervasive this is. But then I also don't know how all-pervasive it is in Wales.
  • Options
    Sunak focusing on the jeans and jacket Top Gear crowd.

    Those who would prefer not to have their kids mown down by a 4x4? Feck 'em.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 4,142
    nico679 said:

    Instead of trying to tackle the big issues the poisoned dwarf is droning on about 20 mph zones .

    Maybe the public might be realizing this too and the more deflection he attempts the more this leads to even more voter anger at the waste of space .

    Do 20mph zones affect more of the population day to day than 7% of the school age population? Just checking what is a bigger issue between VAT on private school fees or national speed limits so I know which leader is focussing on big issues. Thanks in advance.
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,810
    biggles said:

    darkage said:

    I am pretty certain a child fatality will soon be identified which would have been avoided if the speed limit was reduced to 20. That will be the end of this policy.

    Except that there will be other fatalities where it would be avoided if it was 10. So why not 10, or 5 like in a packed building site?

    The answer is that we train drivers properly and hold them to account. 30 (or 20) is the maximum speed limit. You go more slowly depending on risk. Trying to police that with ever changing, specific speeds for specific areas is silly.

    But I take the point above, where it be done and not be confusing we can devolve the decision.

    (Allowing for the fact that my actual preference is to abolish local Government altogether).
    I think the error you are making is appealing to truth and reason. That is long gone - we are living in an age of absurdity.

    One thing that can be observed is how 'panic' is increasingly driving government policy. We've seen this with building safety and fire safety. The vulnerability with highway safety is the same. You just have one bereaved parent and a gruesome child fatality and it becomes impossible to do anything other than reduce the speed limit to 20, or 10, or even 5, because anyone who gets in the way of the change is basically a child murderer.

  • Options

    Regardless of the merits or otherwise of 20mph on residential streets, what business is it of Sunak's? If local councils (or the Welsh government) impose them, then voters can exercise their views via the ballot box (as they did in Brighton recently, to an extent).
    Democracy is a key British value, Rishi.

    Yes. What is local democracy for? Does Britain need to have Whitehall deciding on whether a residential road is 20mph or 30mph?

    It's the smallest of small beans when the deficit is so large, the NHS waiting lists so long, there's a major war in Europe, inflation is still high, there's a chronic shortage of housing and myriad other problems and opportunities.

    But, yeah, the Prime Minister is setting the speed limit on Acacia Avenue, and ensuring that the pothole on the way to Tesco is filled. Rishi's priorities.
  • Options
    AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 811

    AlsoLei said:

    Selebian said:

    On topic, that's very outdated polling. There was a big polling majority for staying in the EU 2000-2009, wasn't there? Hell, there was a polling majority in favour of Labour governments for much of that period, too.

    I think I've seen more up to date polling on 20mph limits (and in favour) so it's an odd graph to use.

    Sure, but the results have been pretty stable over time. This question is now part of the National Transport Attitudes survey rather than BSA, and the most recent data I easily found was from 2020:



    I don't see any reason why it would have changed significantly since then.
    That’s a pretty leading question
    "To what extent are you in favour of having speed limits of 20 miles per hour in residential streets?"

    How is that leading?
  • Options
    SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 6,382
    edited September 2023

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Dianne Feinstein, Oldest Senator and a Fixture of California Politics, Dies at 90

    NY Times

    RIP. What's the procedure for selecting a new senator?
    "Gov. Gavin Newsom, who will chose someone to fill her seat." NY Times
    That is going to be interesting given how many their put their names forward
    There’s a lot of people who want that Senate seat, it’s a job for life at the moment - hence Feinstein and Pelosi.

    A few names mentioned in this obituary.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=kr_F0h5k7Og
    More than that - whoever Newson appoints will be the presumptive nominee for the next election. Without having to go through the whole party selection process - which would normally be a bitter battle between many rivals.
    There isn't a party selection process in California. It's an open primary. The then incumbent Senator has no choice but to go through it (if they were to file by early December - which they won't in practice). Significant candidates have already declared and built up big war chests (and a few have filed). And, if they get through that then, because it's an open primary, it's quite likely to be a blue on blue battle right the way to November. It was in 2018, and Feinstein wasn't far off losing.
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    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,107
    boulay said:

    nico679 said:

    Instead of trying to tackle the big issues the poisoned dwarf is droning on about 20 mph zones .

    Maybe the public might be realizing this too and the more deflection he attempts the more this leads to even more voter anger at the waste of space .

    Do 20mph zones affect more of the population day to day than 7% of the school age population? Just checking what is a bigger issue between VAT on private school fees or national speed limits so I know which leader is focussing on big issues. Thanks in advance.
    You know just as most of the public do that Sunak is just chucking out a policy a day in desperation . Why would he care about motorists when he only travels by helicopter !
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