In the US, and, as far as I know, in the UK as well, the air and water have become cleaner in recent decades. The amount of human-produced CO2 has declined in the last decade in the US. Food has gotten better, and cheaper, relative to incomes. From these good trends, some people conclude that we are doomed, Doomed, DOOMED!
I can't say I can follow the "logic" in their thinking.
But I do think those costumes the Extinction Rebellion girls wear are cute.
It takes a long time for the effects of CO2 emissions to stop. We could end all CO2 emissions tomorrow and the world will keep warming for decades to come. Reducing emissions now won't prevent warming, but it will mean that perhaps the warming that results is something we can cope with rather than something catastrophic.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Indeed I had the misfortune of my pc breaking completely last week, I earn a chunk more than average wage yet i am wondering where I am going to find 2k to replace the damn thing and get off the crappy laptop I dug out of storage. With my outgoings such as rent, council tax, water, power etc I can't really afford to take out a bank loan for it so "just get a 12k car" is totally out of reach even with borrowing for it
So what are you going to do? Not have a computer or get one?
No-one will be forced to buy an EV car in 2030. Some may want to, others will have to. For the latter, there may have to be very tough choices to make. But that is as it has always been.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Indeed I had the misfortune of my pc breaking completely last week, I earn a chunk more than average wage yet i am wondering where I am going to find 2k to replace the damn thing and get off the crappy laptop I dug out of storage. With my outgoings such as rent, council tax, water, power etc I can't really afford to take out a bank loan for it so "just get a 12k car" is totally out of reach even with borrowing for it
This is an experience that PB does not recognise. Just get a new PC (a good one) would be the response because you will save money in the long term vs not buying one.
I notice no-one has answered my question on the cost of energy for EV cars versus petrol cars. I genuinely don't know the answer so I'd appreciate a response.
You need energy to extract Lithium ore, smelt the ore, transport the lithium, etc, etc.
I wonder if a few pbers are personally invested in the green transition? And when I say invested I mean monetarily.
How are we going to compete with Joe Biden's green subsidies? We can't. Better to focus on something else and get the benefit of importing things American taxpayers have paid for. Corporate producers should not be prioritised over consumers.
Our carbon footprint is a drop in the ocean compared to America's (and China's and India's).
Our carbon footprint per person is actually pretty good now - miles better than Germany, Canada, USA and in fact China. But Lord Justice Coulsen made damned sure it won't reach French levels with his pro OPEC court decision yesterday.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
Baffling. Genuinely. Most cars are "bought" on finance. An awful lot of metal being "bought" firmly in EV cost range, and almost none of them are bought for cash. So instead of £400 a month on a petrol BMW, spend £400 on an electric one.
And home improvements are things that people already do now. New windows. Doors. Boilers. Loft conversions. Again, most of it is financed. So we're talking about shaping and targeting what people are financing, not demanding 10 large in cash.
£400/month. What percentage of post tax earnings would that be for someone on the average wage.
Whilst I take the point that you are making, the reality remains that a huge number of expensive brand cars sit on people's driveways. Ordinary working people used to drive Ford and Vauxhall and Rover. Now its Range Rover and Audi and BMW.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
Baffling. Genuinely. Most cars are "bought" on finance. An awful lot of metal being "bought" firmly in EV cost range, and almost none of them are bought for cash. So instead of £400 a month on a petrol BMW, spend £400 on an electric one.
And home improvements are things that people already do now. New windows. Doors. Boilers. Loft conversions. Again, most of it is financed. So we're talking about shaping and targeting what people are financing, not demanding 10 large in cash.
£400/month. What percentage of post tax earnings would that be for someone on the average wage.
A shedload. So they probably won't get a new car and will stick with what they have, unless they have no choice but to get a replacement. But the idea that most people save up for big ticket stuff before they buy it is utterly absurd and displays absolutely no knowledge of how the real world works.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Indeed I had the misfortune of my pc breaking completely last week, I earn a chunk more than average wage yet i am wondering where I am going to find 2k to replace the damn thing and get off the crappy laptop I dug out of storage. With my outgoings such as rent, council tax, water, power etc I can't really afford to take out a bank loan for it so "just get a 12k car" is totally out of reach even with borrowing for it
Nobody's forcing anyone to buy a new car. Even in 2030. If they want to buy a new one in 2031 it'll have to be a hybrid or EV. That's all. Or they can keep their old ICE and chug around to their hearts content.
The misapprehensions around this are breathtaking.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
Baffling. Genuinely. Most cars are "bought" on finance. An awful lot of metal being "bought" firmly in EV cost range, and almost none of them are bought for cash. So instead of £400 a month on a petrol BMW, spend £400 on an electric one.
And home improvements are things that people already do now. New windows. Doors. Boilers. Loft conversions. Again, most of it is financed. So we're talking about shaping and targeting what people are financing, not demanding 10 large in cash.
£400/month. What percentage of post tax earnings would that be for someone on the average wage.
I wonder if a few pbers are personally invested in the green transition? And when I say invested I mean monetarily.
How are we going to compete with Joe Biden's green subsidies? We can't. Better to focus on something else and get the benefit of importing things American taxpayers have paid for. Corporate producers should not be prioritised over consumers.
Our carbon footprint is a drop in the ocean compared to America's (and China's and India's).
Our per capita consumption footprint is greater than most countries - that we have offshored our emissions to factories elsewhere doesn't change that we are the beneficiaries. If everyone on the planet had the lifestyle of the average Brit, we would need more than twice the resources of the Earth to support that. If everyone on the planet had the lifestyle of the average person in China it is less than one. These are heavily skewed by the most wealthy people in Britain, but it is still the case.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Welcome to how most people buy big ticket stuff in the real world. That is not going to change.
And 2030 is seven years away. Is the government telling us that the cost of living crisis has at least another seven years to run?
It might not change but it is still a huge deal for people on the average wage. £200/month after tax to finance a £12k car. More if their credit score is wonky.
But no issue whatsoever for PB.
And that's why most people on average wage do not change their cars very often.
Throughout history there has been catastrophism and we are seeing it here, today, on PB. If we don't get rid of everything now we are doomed. In fact we are already doomed we are just polishing the wood on the deckchairs. Woe is us. We, one of the richest, most developed countries on the planet, with a quality of life literally billions can't even imagine are whinging, with no self-consciousness whatsoever, about the attributes of a battery pack for a £40k car.
And I'm a rightwing ratfucker, according to site orthodoxy while the true guardians of left values are telling people to suck it up and just go out and spend money.
Oh but it's for the planet, they cry, as if will no one think of the children has not been the clarion call of such activists since the beginning of time.
I notice no-one has answered my question on the cost of energy for EV cars versus petrol cars. I genuinely don't know the answer so I'd appreciate a response.
I calculated it for mine a few months ago and again recently. Before the Ukraine war it was about 25% of the cost per km of diesel. Then electricity prices soared and later on oil prices declined, so in early summer it was actually the same or marginally more expensive to charge up the car. Now pump prices are up a bit and electricity is down so it's around - for me - 2/3 of the price of diesel.
I don't have a low rate overnight tariff as Octopus doesn't have an integration for my charging point yet. If and when that happens charging should return to being a fraction of filling up even if electricity prices don't drop.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Welcome to how most people buy big ticket stuff in the real world. That is not going to change.
And 2030 is seven years away. Is the government telling us that the cost of living crisis has at least another seven years to run?
It might not change but it is still a huge deal for people on the average wage. £200/month after tax to finance a £12k car. More if their credit score is wonky.
But no issue whatsoever for PB.
And that's why most people on average wage do not change their cars very often.
But have been told to do so by eg ULEZ. Which was the whole issue around it or did you not notice (no shame in that why would you, you're doing v well). As is it with pushing these absurd targets back by five years. And they will likely be pushed back further I have little doubt.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
Baffling. Genuinely. Most cars are "bought" on finance. An awful lot of metal being "bought" firmly in EV cost range, and almost none of them are bought for cash. So instead of £400 a month on a petrol BMW, spend £400 on an electric one.
And home improvements are things that people already do now. New windows. Doors. Boilers. Loft conversions. Again, most of it is financed. So we're talking about shaping and targeting what people are financing, not demanding 10 large in cash.
£400/month. What percentage of post tax earnings would that be for someone on the average wage.
About 20% I would say.
So would I. Just get on with it, right? It's only 20% ffs.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Indeed I had the misfortune of my pc breaking completely last week, I earn a chunk more than average wage yet i am wondering where I am going to find 2k to replace the damn thing and get off the crappy laptop I dug out of storage. With my outgoings such as rent, council tax, water, power etc I can't really afford to take out a bank loan for it so "just get a 12k car" is totally out of reach even with borrowing for it
So what are you going to do? Not have a computer or get one?
No-one will be forced to buy an EV car in 2030. Some may want to, others will have to. For the latter, there may have to be very tough choices to make. But that is as it has always been.
I am working on a crappy laptop the last firm I worked for let me keep when they laid me off. It enables web browsing but that is about it. I am stuck with it for then 8 to 10 months probably assuming nothing more urgent breaks while I am trying to build up my savings enough. Your theory that everyone can just go out and go yeah I will put that 12k car on hp doesn't hold water for a huge number of people.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
Baffling. Genuinely. Most cars are "bought" on finance. An awful lot of metal being "bought" firmly in EV cost range, and almost none of them are bought for cash. So instead of £400 a month on a petrol BMW, spend £400 on an electric one.
And home improvements are things that people already do now. New windows. Doors. Boilers. Loft conversions. Again, most of it is financed. So we're talking about shaping and targeting what people are financing, not demanding 10 large in cash.
£400/month. What percentage of post tax earnings would that be for someone on the average wage.
Whilst I take the point that you are making, the reality remains that a huge number of expensive brand cars sit on people's driveways. Ordinary working people used to drive Ford and Vauxhall and Rover. Now its Range Rover and Audi and BMW.
It is truly one of life's mysteries largely explained, I would imagine, by our recent interest rates. But those days are no longer with us.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Welcome to how most people buy big ticket stuff in the real world. That is not going to change.
And 2030 is seven years away. Is the government telling us that the cost of living crisis has at least another seven years to run?
It might not change but it is still a huge deal for people on the average wage. £200/month after tax to finance a £12k car. More if their credit score is wonky.
But no issue whatsoever for PB.
And that's why most people on average wage do not change their cars very often.
I'm not sure that "British people are too poor to cope with net zero" is quite the election winner for a government that's been in charge of the economy for the last 13 years they think it is.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Indeed I had the misfortune of my pc breaking completely last week, I earn a chunk more than average wage yet i am wondering where I am going to find 2k to replace the damn thing and get off the crappy laptop I dug out of storage. With my outgoings such as rent, council tax, water, power etc I can't really afford to take out a bank loan for it so "just get a 12k car" is totally out of reach even with borrowing for it
This is an experience that PB does not recognise. Just get a new PC (a good one) would be the response because you will save money in the long term vs not buying one.
Huh? I have a stack of old laptops in the cupboard which get repurposed. And there is a very thriving trade for 2nd user laptops, phones, gadgets etc - go down and high street and look at CeX type stores.
-“Delay the off-gas-grid fossil fuel ban until 2035 and relax the requirement from 100% to 80% of households” -“Relax the gas boiler phase-out target in 2035” -“no new energy efficiency regulations on homes” -“Increase the Boiler Upgrade Scheme grant by 50% to £7500” -“Announce the the requirement for all vehicles to have significant zero emission capability in the period 2030-35 is to be removed”
If you're in your early 30s, like myself, or younger - what do we really have to hope for? Why do I do my 9-5? Why should I care about saving a pension?
I can't save to buy a house, I can't afford a family, I don't believe I will see my pension because either the pension age will be so high or the economy will collapse in such a way my pension will be pointless, and the country and world will see environmental ravages annually that used to be once in a lifetime.
Why should my generation and those younger then us participate in a society that seems so gung ho in destroying any future for us?
If you weren't so determined to swallow everything the green lobby spews out so credulously, you'd realise that its many of the eco-measures that this intervention is doing damage limitation on that are responsible for damaging the economic prospects of your generation. You will be forced to pay more to heat your home, pay more to get around, pay more of your income in tax, subsidise any remaining businesses because they can't operate under these conditions, doing so to prosper coal burning/Russian oil using China and India, with zero net decrease in emissions. Wise the f**k up ffs.
I notice no-one has answered my question on the cost of energy for EV cars versus petrol cars. I genuinely don't know the answer so I'd appreciate a response.
This might help:
"MPGe is the unit of measurement for an electric car’s energy consumption level to compare with gas-powered vehicles’ fuel consumption. A gas-powered car earning 35 miles per gallon is considered to be great. EVs can get 100 MPGe with ease."
They are talking about American gallons, but the comparison is still valid.
If the electricity is coming from your solar panels it could be free or from Octopus etc overnight it could be cheap. Also carbon free depending on the source.
I notice no-one has answered my question on the cost of energy for EV cars versus petrol cars. I genuinely don't know the answer so I'd appreciate a response.
I calculated it for mine a few months ago and again recently. Before the Ukraine war it was about 25% of the cost per km of diesel. Then electricity prices soared and later on oil prices declined, so in early summer it was actually the same or marginally more expensive to charge up the car. Now pump prices are up a bit and electricity is down so it's around - for me - 2/3 of the price of diesel.
I don't have a low rate overnight tariff as Octopus doesn't have an integration for my charging point yet. If and when that happens charging should return to being a fraction of filling up even if electricity prices don't drop.
I do have a home charger with an Octopus overnight tariff of, currently, 9p / kWh, so the cost of driving my Leaf is indeed a fraction of the cost of driving the missus's diesel Golf.
I can report that Rodez station is quite run down, the trains are rattly and somewhat battered, the station bar is shuttered and derelict, and there are ageing men publicly drinking red wine out of metal cups under trees: right outside. Quite a spectacle
This is far from the gleaming functional France most people see on their holidays. I can’t wait to escape
Throughout history there has been catastrophism and we are seeing it here, today, on PB. If we don't get rid of everything now we are doomed. In fact we are already doomed we are just polishing the wood on the deckchairs. Woe is us. We, one of the richest, most developed countries on the planet, with a quality of life literally billions can't even imagine are whinging, with no self-consciousness whatsoever, about the attributes of a battery pack for a £40k car.
And I'm a rightwing ratfucker, according to site orthodoxy while the true guardians of left values are telling people to suck it up and just go out and spend money.
Oh but it's for the planet, they cry, as if will no one think of the children has not been the clarion call of such activists since the beginning of time.
Total, total arseholes.
Ahem.
That was a party political broadcast on behalf of the Conservative Party.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Indeed I had the misfortune of my pc breaking completely last week, I earn a chunk more than average wage yet i am wondering where I am going to find 2k to replace the damn thing and get off the crappy laptop I dug out of storage. With my outgoings such as rent, council tax, water, power etc I can't really afford to take out a bank loan for it so "just get a 12k car" is totally out of reach even with borrowing for it
Nobody's forcing anyone to buy a new car. Even in 2030. If they want to buy a new one in 2031 it'll have to be a hybrid or EV. That's all. Or they can keep their old ICE and chug around to their hearts content.
The misapprehensions around this are breathtaking.
Just a point of order
If they buy an ICE in 2029 then it's possible they could still be running it near 2050
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
Whilst I don't really think Sunak has a chance his best bet is to offer common sense in contrast to the ideology/moral crusade of the left. It's a very old Tory playbook. Net zero, woke, immigration, politicised unions etc. He had some success - e.g trans women in prisons - pointing out that the facts have changed/net zero by 2030 is not going to save the planet
Where's the common sense is opting out of the green industrial revolution just as the US, the EU and the Chinese ramp up their efforts?
Where's the common sense in kicking the can down the road so that everything gets more expensive to do in five years time?
Where's the common sense in ensuring higher energy bills and more greenhouse gas consumption for longer?
Where's the common sense is opting out of the green industrial revolution just as the US, the EU and the Chinese ramp up their efforts?
Do any of those countries/areas have a ban on pure ICE vehicles after 2030 ?
No - we had a first mover advantage that we are now giving up.
Manufacturers are still free to make EVs, restricting consumer choice unnecessarily (We're in the orbit of the EU bloc wrt goods so I accept 2035 will probably still happen) is like the Brexiters who argued giving up freedom of movement with the EU was somehow gaining back our freedom. There was no need for the arbitrary 2030 ICE ban, and it is a good thing at least the Tories have binned it to align with the EU now.
The argument for 2030 is that it put the UK ahead of everyone else and so made us a more attractive investment opportunity - a place to develop technologies against a set timeline, with a supportive government in the back ground, that could then be rolled-out more widely. By doing what everyone else is doing while also looking entirely unreliable, we remove a reason to come here.
Without import restrictions it was never a reason to come here in the first place. It was a nice market to sell into, thank you very much, but no more than that.
Throughout history there has been catastrophism and we are seeing it here, today, on PB. If we don't get rid of everything now we are doomed. In fact we are already doomed we are just polishing the wood on the deckchairs. Woe is us. We, one of the richest, most developed countries on the planet, with a quality of life literally billions can't even imagine are whinging, with no self-consciousness whatsoever, about the attributes of a battery pack for a £40k car.
And I'm a rightwing ratfucker, according to site orthodoxy while the true guardians of left values are telling people to suck it up and just go out and spend money.
Oh but it's for the planet, they cry, as if will no one think of the children has not been the clarion call of such activists since the beginning of time.
Total, total arseholes.
Ahem.
That was a party political broadcast on behalf of the Conservative Party.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Indeed I had the misfortune of my pc breaking completely last week, I earn a chunk more than average wage yet i am wondering where I am going to find 2k to replace the damn thing and get off the crappy laptop I dug out of storage. With my outgoings such as rent, council tax, water, power etc I can't really afford to take out a bank loan for it so "just get a 12k car" is totally out of reach even with borrowing for it
So what are you going to do? Not have a computer or get one?
No-one will be forced to buy an EV car in 2030. Some may want to, others will have to. For the latter, there may have to be very tough choices to make. But that is as it has always been.
I am working on a crappy laptop the last firm I worked for let me keep when they laid me off. It enables web browsing but that is about it. I am stuck with it for then 8 to 10 months probably assuming nothing more urgent breaks while I am trying to build up my savings enough. Your theory that everyone can just go out and go yeah I will put that 12k car on hp doesn't hold water for a huge number of people.
That's not my theory. It's how people do largely buy their cars. And those who cannot get HP or cannot afford it, do without. That is a cost of living issue that high interest rates exacerbate, but it has nothing to do with net zero.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Indeed I had the misfortune of my pc breaking completely last week, I earn a chunk more than average wage yet i am wondering where I am going to find 2k to replace the damn thing and get off the crappy laptop I dug out of storage. With my outgoings such as rent, council tax, water, power etc I can't really afford to take out a bank loan for it so "just get a 12k car" is totally out of reach even with borrowing for it
This is an experience that PB does not recognise. Just get a new PC (a good one) would be the response because you will save money in the long term vs not buying one.
Huh? I have a stack of old laptops in the cupboard which get repurposed. And there is a very thriving trade for 2nd user laptops, phones, gadgets etc - go down and high street and look at CeX type stores.
My wife’s 10 yo MacBook has just died. I’ve told her to get a second hand one.
I’m fed up with posters pretending that all voters are going to have to fork out £40k come 2030. The number of people I know who are buying brand new cars for cash is very very small.
Throughout history there has been catastrophism and we are seeing it here, today, on PB. If we don't get rid of everything now we are doomed. In fact we are already doomed we are just polishing the wood on the deckchairs. Woe is us. We, one of the richest, most developed countries on the planet, with a quality of life literally billions can't even imagine are whinging, with no self-consciousness whatsoever, about the attributes of a battery pack for a £40k car.
And I'm a rightwing ratfucker, according to site orthodoxy while the true guardians of left values are telling people to suck it up and just go out and spend money.
Oh but it's for the planet, they cry, as if will no one think of the children has not been the clarion call of such activists since the beginning of time.
Total, total arseholes.
Ahem.
That was a party political broadcast on behalf of the Conservative Party.
He makes a very good point; and the constant whinging and whining - often based purely on a party-political basis - is in equal measures annoying, inaccurate and amusing.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Indeed I had the misfortune of my pc breaking completely last week, I earn a chunk more than average wage yet i am wondering where I am going to find 2k to replace the damn thing and get off the crappy laptop I dug out of storage. With my outgoings such as rent, council tax, water, power etc I can't really afford to take out a bank loan for it so "just get a 12k car" is totally out of reach even with borrowing for it
Nobody's forcing anyone to buy a new car. Even in 2030. If they want to buy a new one in 2031 it'll have to be a hybrid or EV. That's all. Or they can keep their old ICE and chug around to their hearts content.
The misapprehensions around this are breathtaking.
Just a point of order
If they buy an ICE in 2029 then it's possible they could still be running it near 2050
I can report that Rodez station is quite run down, the trains are rattly and somewhat battered, the station bar is shuttered and derelict, and there are ageing men publicly drinking red wine out of metal cups under trees: right outside. Quite a spectacle
This is far from the gleaming functional France most people see on their holidays. I can’t wait to escape
Travel writer goes to the least populated corner of France, and declares it boring.
-“Delay the off-gas-grid fossil fuel ban until 2035 and relax the requirement from 100% to 80% of households” -“Relax the gas boiler phase-out target in 2035” -“no new energy efficiency regulations on homes” -“Increase the Boiler Upgrade Scheme grant by 50% to £7500” -“Announce the the requirement for all vehicles to have significant zero emission capability in the period 2030-35 is to be removed”
If you're in your early 30s, like myself, or younger - what do we really have to hope for? Why do I do my 9-5? Why should I care about saving a pension?
I can't save to buy a house, I can't afford a family, I don't believe I will see my pension because either the pension age will be so high or the economy will collapse in such a way my pension will be pointless, and the country and world will see environmental ravages annually that used to be once in a lifetime.
Why should my generation and those younger then us participate in a society that seems so gung ho in destroying any future for us?
The main reason you can't afford a house is because the population of the country has risen from 55 million in 1990 to 68 million today.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Indeed I had the misfortune of my pc breaking completely last week, I earn a chunk more than average wage yet i am wondering where I am going to find 2k to replace the damn thing and get off the crappy laptop I dug out of storage. With my outgoings such as rent, council tax, water, power etc I can't really afford to take out a bank loan for it so "just get a 12k car" is totally out of reach even with borrowing for it
Nobody's forcing anyone to buy a new car. Even in 2030. If they want to buy a new one in 2031 it'll have to be a hybrid or EV. That's all. Or they can keep their old ICE and chug around to their hearts content.
The misapprehensions around this are breathtaking.
Just a point of order
If they buy an ICE in 2029 then it's possible they could still be running it near 2050
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Welcome to how most people buy big ticket stuff in the real world. That is not going to change.
And 2030 is seven years away. Is the government telling us that the cost of living crisis has at least another seven years to run?
It might not change but it is still a huge deal for people on the average wage. £200/month after tax to finance a £12k car. More if their credit score is wonky.
But no issue whatsoever for PB.
And that's why most people on average wage do not change their cars very often.
But have been told to do so by eg ULEZ. Which was the whole issue around it or did you not notice (no shame in that why would you, you're doing v well). As is it with pushing these absurd targets back by five years. And they will likely be pushed back further I have little doubt.
Most people on low incomes in the ULEZ area do not have cars at all. Most average income people who have cars in ULEZ areas do not have cars liable to the charge.
We, one of the richest, most developed countries on the planet, with a quality of life literally billions can't even imagine are whinging.
I thought the argument was that we are all so terribly poor we can't possibly be expected to embrace new technology? We in one of the richest, most developed countries on the planet.
Sources in the car industry utterly furious with the government - senior figure tells me they received personal reassurances from govt ministers that everything was on track just LAST WEEK - no mention of this delay at that point
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Indeed I had the misfortune of my pc breaking completely last week, I earn a chunk more than average wage yet i am wondering where I am going to find 2k to replace the damn thing and get off the crappy laptop I dug out of storage. With my outgoings such as rent, council tax, water, power etc I can't really afford to take out a bank loan for it so "just get a 12k car" is totally out of reach even with borrowing for it
Nobody's forcing anyone to buy a new car. Even in 2030. If they want to buy a new one in 2031 it'll have to be a hybrid or EV. That's all. Or they can keep their old ICE and chug around to their hearts content.
The misapprehensions around this are breathtaking.
Just a point of order
If they buy an ICE in 2029 then it's possible they could still be running it near 2050
Exactly. That's why it's strange people are kicking up such a fuss about it.
Throughout history there has been catastrophism and we are seeing it here, today, on PB. If we don't get rid of everything now we are doomed. In fact we are already doomed we are just polishing the wood on the deckchairs. Woe is us. We, one of the richest, most developed countries on the planet, with a quality of life literally billions can't even imagine are whinging, with no self-consciousness whatsoever, about the attributes of a battery pack for a £40k car.
And I'm a rightwing ratfucker, according to site orthodoxy while the true guardians of left values are telling people to suck it up and just go out and spend money.
Oh but it's for the planet, they cry, as if will no one think of the children has not been the clarion call of such activists since the beginning of time.
Total, total arseholes.
Ahem.
As a nation, we seem to alternate between cocksure arrogance and exaggerated despair.
Viewed objectively, there are few times and places it has been better to be born in, than in a modern Western country.
Which doesn’t mean that there aren’t real injustices to be addressed, like that in the header.
I can report that Rodez station is quite run down, the trains are rattly and somewhat battered, the station bar is shuttered and derelict, and there are ageing men publicly drinking red wine out of metal cups under trees: right outside. Quite a spectacle
This is far from the gleaming functional France most people see on their holidays. I can’t wait to escape
Maybe someone from the Spectator will be along shortly to observe and write an article about how French railways are the most disappointing in the world? No doubt highlighting the winos gathering outside the stations.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Indeed I had the misfortune of my pc breaking completely last week, I earn a chunk more than average wage yet i am wondering where I am going to find 2k to replace the damn thing and get off the crappy laptop I dug out of storage. With my outgoings such as rent, council tax, water, power etc I can't really afford to take out a bank loan for it so "just get a 12k car" is totally out of reach even with borrowing for it
So what are you going to do? Not have a computer or get one?
No-one will be forced to buy an EV car in 2030. Some may want to, others will have to. For the latter, there may have to be very tough choices to make. But that is as it has always been.
I am working on a crappy laptop the last firm I worked for let me keep when they laid me off. It enables web browsing but that is about it. I am stuck with it for then 8 to 10 months probably assuming nothing more urgent breaks while I am trying to build up my savings enough. Your theory that everyone can just go out and go yeah I will put that 12k car on hp doesn't hold water for a huge number of people.
That's not my theory. It's how people do largely buy their cars. And those who cannot get HP or cannot afford it, do without. That is a cost of living issue that high interest rates exacerbate, but it has nothing to do with net zero.
My comment wasn't aimed at net zero however and no idea why you thought it was. My comment was directed at people here who think its easy for most to just go out and afford to shell out a few thousand here for a car, or a heat pump, or insulation because "it will save money in the long term". Yes it will however you need the disposable spare cash to make the payments on top of your living costs for it to be viable
I notice no-one has answered my question on the cost of energy for EV cars versus petrol cars. I genuinely don't know the answer so I'd appreciate a response.
This might help:
"MPGe is the unit of measurement for an electric car’s energy consumption level to compare with gas-powered vehicles’ fuel consumption. A gas-powered car earning 35 miles per gallon is considered to be great. EVs can get 100 MPGe with ease."
They are talking about American gallons, but the comparison is still valid.
If the electricity is coming from your solar panels it could be free or from Octopus etc overnight it could be cheap. Also carbon free depending on the source.
I mean the cost of the energy. What is the cost per mile of electric versus petrol. I'm guessing petrol is about 10p per mile if you exclude tax.
Sources in the car industry utterly furious with the government - senior figure tells me they received personal reassurances from govt ministers that everything was on track just LAST WEEK - no mention of this delay at that point
“The UK is closed for business,” they say
The UK has been closed for business for quite a long time now, at least according to broad international business sentiment.
Sources in the car industry utterly furious with the government - senior figure tells me they received personal reassurances from govt ministers that everything was on track just LAST WEEK - no mention of this delay at that point
Sources in the car industry utterly furious with the government - senior figure tells me they received personal reassurances from govt ministers that everything was on track just LAST WEEK - no mention of this delay at that point
“The UK is closed for business,” they say
Those of us who thought anyone would be better than Truss are getting a tad worried that we may be proved wrong.
I agree. At the moment, we have the following situation:
A 15 year old sleeps with another 15 year old - they are both breaking the law but nothing will happen A 16 year old sleeps with a 15 year old - the 16 year old could be prosecuted as a paedophile but realistically wouldn't be A 40 year old sleeps with a 16 year old - perfectly legal.
I would introduce a 2 year rule for under 18s. Essentially it is fine for under 18s to have sex provided that both partners are within 2 years of age of each other. Outside of that then you crack down hard on the older partner, even if they are under 18 themselves.
Yes, you have a formal age of consent as being 18, with guidance that over 16 and with no more than two or three years’ age gap is fine, so long as there’s no position of trust issues.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Indeed I had the misfortune of my pc breaking completely last week, I earn a chunk more than average wage yet i am wondering where I am going to find 2k to replace the damn thing and get off the crappy laptop I dug out of storage. With my outgoings such as rent, council tax, water, power etc I can't really afford to take out a bank loan for it so "just get a 12k car" is totally out of reach even with borrowing for it
So what are you going to do? Not have a computer or get one?
No-one will be forced to buy an EV car in 2030. Some may want to, others will have to. For the latter, there may have to be very tough choices to make. But that is as it has always been.
I am working on a crappy laptop the last firm I worked for let me keep when they laid me off. It enables web browsing but that is about it. I am stuck with it for then 8 to 10 months probably assuming nothing more urgent breaks while I am trying to build up my savings enough. Your theory that everyone can just go out and go yeah I will put that 12k car on hp doesn't hold water for a huge number of people.
That's not my theory. It's how people do largely buy their cars. And those who cannot get HP or cannot afford it, do without. That is a cost of living issue that high interest rates exacerbate, but it has nothing to do with net zero.
My comment wasn't aimed at net zero however and no idea why you thought it was. My comment was directed at people here who think its easy for most to just go out and afford to shell out a few thousand here for a car, or a heat pump, or insulation because "it will save money in the long term". Yes it will however you need the disposable spare cash to make the payments on top of your living costs for it to be viable
You do indeed. As I say, we are in the midst of a major cost of living crisis. I am not one of those people who believe it is easy just to go out and but a new car or a heat pump.
Throughout history there has been catastrophism and we are seeing it here, today, on PB. If we don't get rid of everything now we are doomed. In fact we are already doomed we are just polishing the wood on the deckchairs. Woe is us. We, one of the richest, most developed countries on the planet, with a quality of life literally billions can't even imagine are whinging, with no self-consciousness whatsoever, about the attributes of a battery pack for a £40k car.
And I'm a rightwing ratfucker, according to site orthodoxy while the true guardians of left values are telling people to suck it up and just go out and spend money.
Oh but it's for the planet, they cry, as if will no one think of the children has not been the clarion call of such activists since the beginning of time.
Total, total arseholes.
Ahem.
That was a party political broadcast on behalf of the Conservative Party.
He makes a very good point; and the constant whinging and whining - often based purely on a party-political basis - is in equal measures annoying, inaccurate and amusing.
There is part of a good point and an awful lot of fact-free bleating. Here in 2023, despite the cost of living squeeze, an awful lot of people are doing house improvements (new windows or doors or a boiler or doing out their loft etc). Others will need to do the same but are putting it off a bit longer - either way it will happen because houses need money spending on them.
Same with cars. You can keep a car running for only so long before the costs are greater than sanity. So people chop them in - most people buy used, but they still cost.
The car industry only works because sales are financed. A lot of the bigger home improvements are also financed. So this is not about forcing people to spend money they don't have on things they don't want. Its driving their existing and going to happen spending onto things which advance energy saving. That's it.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Indeed I had the misfortune of my pc breaking completely last week, I earn a chunk more than average wage yet i am wondering where I am going to find 2k to replace the damn thing and get off the crappy laptop I dug out of storage. With my outgoings such as rent, council tax, water, power etc I can't really afford to take out a bank loan for it so "just get a 12k car" is totally out of reach even with borrowing for it
This is an experience that PB does not recognise. Just get a new PC (a good one) would be the response because you will save money in the long term vs not buying one.
You shouldn’t have to spend 2k on a desktop - that’s the price for a really nice laptop.
You can get an Apple MacAir for £1k - and that has some serious performance.
Sources in the car industry utterly furious with the government - senior figure tells me they received personal reassurances from govt ministers that everything was on track just LAST WEEK - no mention of this delay at that point
“The UK is closed for business,” they say
Those of us who thought anyone would be better than Truss are getting a tad worried that we may be proved wrong.
Rishi looks like an utter joke from here.
Last week US Twitter was wondering why the British Prime Minister was making a substance-free announcement about dogs - the sort of thing you’d expect here from the mayor of a middle-sized town.
I notice no-one has answered my question on the cost of energy for EV cars versus petrol cars. I genuinely don't know the answer so I'd appreciate a response.
The answer is a very ‘it depends’.
EVs are more expensive to purchase, cheaper to service, but the biggest variable is the cost of the electricity - if you can charge at home overnight it’s great, but if you have to use the fast chargers on motorways it’s very expensive.
Throughout history there has been catastrophism and we are seeing it here, today, on PB. If we don't get rid of everything now we are doomed. In fact we are already doomed we are just polishing the wood on the deckchairs. Woe is us. We, one of the richest, most developed countries on the planet, with a quality of life literally billions can't even imagine are whinging, with no self-consciousness whatsoever, about the attributes of a battery pack for a £40k car.
And I'm a rightwing ratfucker, according to site orthodoxy while the true guardians of left values are telling people to suck it up and just go out and spend money.
Oh but it's for the planet, they cry, as if will no one think of the children has not been the clarion call of such activists since the beginning of time.
Total, total arseholes.
Ahem.
Throughout history the people arguing for the end of the world have been prophets and hucksters; grifters and martyrs.
The scientific consensus is that a world above 2 degrees Celsius from industrial averages would be catastrophic. That is not a millenarian channelling the word of God. It isn't some street preacher saying we all deserve to die. It is the consensus of hundreds of thousands of individuals chasing the evidence across multiple scientific disciplines.
I notice no-one has answered my question on the cost of energy for EV cars versus petrol cars. I genuinely don't know the answer so I'd appreciate a response.
I calculated it for mine a few months ago and again recently. Before the Ukraine war it was about 25% of the cost per km of diesel. Then electricity prices soared and later on oil prices declined, so in early summer it was actually the same or marginally more expensive to charge up the car. Now pump prices are up a bit and electricity is down so it's around - for me - 2/3 of the price of diesel.
I don't have a low rate overnight tariff as Octopus doesn't have an integration for my charging point yet. If and when that happens charging should return to being a fraction of filling up even if electricity prices don't drop.
I do have a home charger with an Octopus overnight tariff of, currently, 9p / kWh, so the cost of driving my Leaf is indeed a fraction of the cost of driving the missus's diesel Golf.
My Kia does 280 genuine miles on a charge cost of £21.
I reckon my 60mpg petrol hybrid costs 21p in petrol per mile, so more than twice the cost, and that is the most economically ICE car that I have ever had.
I notice no-one has answered my question on the cost of energy for EV cars versus petrol cars. I genuinely don't know the answer so I'd appreciate a response.
The answer is a very ‘it depends’.
EVs are more expensive to purchase, cheaper to service, but the biggest variable is the cost of the electricity - if you can charge at home overnight it’s great, but if you have to use the fast chargers on motorways it’s very expensive.
Hence the value of Teslas that have the free-supercharging-for-life deal.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Welcome to how most people buy big ticket stuff in the real world. That is not going to change.
And 2030 is seven years away. Is the government telling us that the cost of living crisis has at least another seven years to run?
It might not change but it is still a huge deal for people on the average wage. £200/month after tax to finance a £12k car. More if their credit score is wonky.
But no issue whatsoever for PB.
And that's why most people on average wage do not change their cars very often.
I'm not sure that "British people are too poor to cope with net zero" is quite the election winner for a government that's been in charge of the economy for the last 13 years they think it is.
I think you might find it's a better election winner than "We assume that everyone is rich enough to cope with a huge chunk taken out of their income in order to drastically reduce our already infinitesimally small contribution to world CO2 emmissions"
I can report that Rodez station is quite run down, the trains are rattly and somewhat battered, the station bar is shuttered and derelict, and there are ageing men publicly drinking red wine out of metal cups under trees: right outside. Quite a spectacle
This is far from the gleaming functional France most people see on their holidays. I can’t wait to escape
Maybe someone from the Spectator will be along shortly to observe and write an article about how French railways are the most disappointing in the world? No doubt highlighting the winos gathering outside the stations.
I don’t deny I am quite repelled by the public drunkenness. Sad old men with weird leering faces just swilling wine out of metal cups under trees. Ugh
Call me an old prude but it’s not attractive. Happily I am now on the train to Toulouse. Let’s hope things improve. I don’t want that to be my last image of La Belle France
Sources in the car industry utterly furious with the government - senior figure tells me they received personal reassurances from govt ministers that everything was on track just LAST WEEK - no mention of this delay at that point
“The UK is closed for business,” they say
The UK has been closed for business for quite a long time now, at least according to broad international business sentiment.
We urgently need a new government.
It was actually starting to get a bit better. I was at a big international thingy last week and a few foreign colleagues remarked that British politics seems to have calmed down and that Rishi man isn't as mad as Boris or the other temporary woman last year.
Now we're back where we belong, making ourselves look like a risky investment.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Indeed I had the misfortune of my pc breaking completely last week, I earn a chunk more than average wage yet i am wondering where I am going to find 2k to replace the damn thing and get off the crappy laptop I dug out of storage. With my outgoings such as rent, council tax, water, power etc I can't really afford to take out a bank loan for it so "just get a 12k car" is totally out of reach even with borrowing for it
So what are you going to do? Not have a computer or get one?
No-one will be forced to buy an EV car in 2030. Some may want to, others will have to. For the latter, there may have to be very tough choices to make. But that is as it has always been.
I am working on a crappy laptop the last firm I worked for let me keep when they laid me off. It enables web browsing but that is about it. I am stuck with it for then 8 to 10 months probably assuming nothing more urgent breaks while I am trying to build up my savings enough. Your theory that everyone can just go out and go yeah I will put that 12k car on hp doesn't hold water for a huge number of people.
That's not my theory. It's how people do largely buy their cars. And those who cannot get HP or cannot afford it, do without. That is a cost of living issue that high interest rates exacerbate, but it has nothing to do with net zero.
How do people buy cars? It would be useful to see stats on how much people pay, across all types of purchase and new and second hand cars. Yes a lot of people get a contract for £400 a month, some get a bank loan for a few grand and buy second hand, others buy a banger for whatever they can scrape together
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Indeed I had the misfortune of my pc breaking completely last week, I earn a chunk more than average wage yet i am wondering where I am going to find 2k to replace the damn thing and get off the crappy laptop I dug out of storage. With my outgoings such as rent, council tax, water, power etc I can't really afford to take out a bank loan for it so "just get a 12k car" is totally out of reach even with borrowing for it
So what are you going to do? Not have a computer or get one?
No-one will be forced to buy an EV car in 2030. Some may want to, others will have to. For the latter, there may have to be very tough choices to make. But that is as it has always been.
I am working on a crappy laptop the last firm I worked for let me keep when they laid me off. It enables web browsing but that is about it. I am stuck with it for then 8 to 10 months probably assuming nothing more urgent breaks while I am trying to build up my savings enough. Your theory that everyone can just go out and go yeah I will put that 12k car on hp doesn't hold water for a huge number of people.
That's not my theory. It's how people do largely buy their cars. And those who cannot get HP or cannot afford it, do without. That is a cost of living issue that high interest rates exacerbate, but it has nothing to do with net zero.
My comment wasn't aimed at net zero however and no idea why you thought it was. My comment was directed at people here who think its easy for most to just go out and afford to shell out a few thousand here for a car, or a heat pump, or insulation because "it will save money in the long term". Yes it will however you need the disposable spare cash to make the payments on top of your living costs for it to be viable
Pagan - people *already are* shelling out for these things. They have a boiler which is knackered and has to be replaced. The measures are to drive the industry to make them as efficient as possible, and to develop greener alternatives.
Yes of course there are a lot of people struggling thanks to the Tories. Many millions of them. A lot live in rented accommodation - and the proposed uturn utterly shafts them by letting the landlord leave them in expensive to heat homes. Others find themselves short on cash but with kids and a broken boiler. You'll be amazed to find that faced with your kids freezing over the winter people find the cash.
There is this lunatic suggestion that there is an arbitrary date where *everyone* has to buy a new boiler or whatever. This is nonsense - they get replaced as they break down.
The mingeing on here about the cost of getting a replacement laptop or a replacement car is precisely the attitude that prevails in Treasury and the country at large.
It’s why Britain increasingly “can’t have nice things”.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Welcome to how most people buy big ticket stuff in the real world. That is not going to change.
And 2030 is seven years away. Is the government telling us that the cost of living crisis has at least another seven years to run?
It might not change but it is still a huge deal for people on the average wage. £200/month after tax to finance a £12k car. More if their credit score is wonky.
But no issue whatsoever for PB.
And that's why most people on average wage do not change their cars very often.
I'm not sure that "British people are too poor to cope with net zero" is quite the election winner for a government that's been in charge of the economy for the last 13 years they think it is.
I think you might find it's a better election winner than "We assume that everyone is rich enough to cope with a huge chunk taken out of their income in order to drastically reduce our already infinitesimally small contribution to world CO2 emmissions"
If that were true rather than just a strawman you might have a point.
We're like 2 weeks out from Tory conference - why do this now and not workshop it and lay the foundation for it to announce at conference? I'm starting to think maybe 16:30 rolls around and a new GE is announced partly because the Tories may not be able to stand a united front at conference without the spectre of a GE to force it.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Indeed I had the misfortune of my pc breaking completely last week, I earn a chunk more than average wage yet i am wondering where I am going to find 2k to replace the damn thing and get off the crappy laptop I dug out of storage. With my outgoings such as rent, council tax, water, power etc I can't really afford to take out a bank loan for it so "just get a 12k car" is totally out of reach even with borrowing for it
This is an experience that PB does not recognise. Just get a new PC (a good one) would be the response because you will save money in the long term vs not buying one.
You shouldn’t have to spend 2k on a desktop - that’s the price for a really nice laptop.
You can get an Apple MacAir for £1k - and that has some serious performance.
You get more bang for your buck from a desktop and I never need to take my main pc anywhere. I buy top end kit because I try to only replace it every 8 to 10 years and by the end of that period the top end today is struggling. So would rather spend 2k and it last 10 years than 1.2k and need to replace it in 3 to 4 years when it starts to labour. Frankly I hate laptops because a desktop I can actually fix myself. Sadly this time the whole thing is fried due to an electrical fault only thing salvageable might be the drives
Clearly, "Uxbridge Man" or is that "Ruislip Woman" is now the core vote driving Conservative policy. Said individual is supposedly pro-car anti-"the Green crap" and even if they aren't outright climate change deniers or sceptics, take the view "we're a small island, why should we change everything if China and India aren't going to?"
These are the arguments that will need to be refuted.
I'm left with the thought as the country which started the Industrial Revolution and all that flowed from it, why not be the one that leads the next phase in technological, social and political terms development by embracing a new economic model based on sustainability.
That means commitments to R&D investment in ways to not only mitigate the environmental damage which has been done but to allow for sustainable economic growth in the decades ahead.
The mingeing on here about the cost of getting a replacement laptop or a replacement car is precisely the attitude that prevails in Treasury and the country at large.
It’s why Britain increasingly “can’t have nice things”.
Exactly. Money is not a resource, it is an expression of labour value. We do not mine money, we create it through valuable labour. If we need to change the way things work, we redirect labour. That's what putting an economy on a warfooting is, and we could choose to do the same for the environment or any socially beneficial thing.
Sources in the car industry utterly furious with the government - senior figure tells me they received personal reassurances from govt ministers that everything was on track just LAST WEEK - no mention of this delay at that point
“The UK is closed for business,” they say
Those of us who thought anyone would be better than Truss are getting a tad worried that we may be proved wrong.
Rishi looks like an utter joke from here.
Last week US Twitter was wondering why the British Prime Minister was making a substance-free announcement about dogs - the sort of thing you’d expect here from the mayor of a middle-sized town.
That sounds like an old-fashioned cultural cringe on your part.
Sunak never gave a flying fuck about the environment, it’s true. It’s not obvious he gives a flying fuck about anything, to be honest, apart from his surely-fraying sense of self-worth.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Indeed I had the misfortune of my pc breaking completely last week, I earn a chunk more than average wage yet i am wondering where I am going to find 2k to replace the damn thing and get off the crappy laptop I dug out of storage. With my outgoings such as rent, council tax, water, power etc I can't really afford to take out a bank loan for it so "just get a 12k car" is totally out of reach even with borrowing for it
So what are you going to do? Not have a computer or get one?
No-one will be forced to buy an EV car in 2030. Some may want to, others will have to. For the latter, there may have to be very tough choices to make. But that is as it has always been.
I am working on a crappy laptop the last firm I worked for let me keep when they laid me off. It enables web browsing but that is about it. I am stuck with it for then 8 to 10 months probably assuming nothing more urgent breaks while I am trying to build up my savings enough. Your theory that everyone can just go out and go yeah I will put that 12k car on hp doesn't hold water for a huge number of people.
That's not my theory. It's how people do largely buy their cars. And those who cannot get HP or cannot afford it, do without. That is a cost of living issue that high interest rates exacerbate, but it has nothing to do with net zero.
My comment wasn't aimed at net zero however and no idea why you thought it was. My comment was directed at people here who think its easy for most to just go out and afford to shell out a few thousand here for a car, or a heat pump, or insulation because "it will save money in the long term". Yes it will however you need the disposable spare cash to make the payments on top of your living costs for it to be viable
You do indeed. As I say, we are in the midst of a major cost of living crisis. I am not one of those people who believe it is easy just to go out and but a new car or a heat pump.
Nobody just goes out to buy a heat pump. Or a boiler. There has to be a reason - and that reason is almost always its complete failure, or its imminent failure.
Winter is on the horizon, and that means endless adverts from British Gas and others for boiler insurance. Why? Because they know that boilers fail in the winter when under heaviest use.
Broke or not, nobody sits in a cold house in the winter after their boiler packs in. You stick a new one on finance and worry about the cash once the circulation has returned to your kid's toes.
Sources in the car industry utterly furious with the government - senior figure tells me they received personal reassurances from govt ministers that everything was on track just LAST WEEK - no mention of this delay at that point
“The UK is closed for business,” they say
The UK has been closed for business for quite a long time now, at least according to broad international business sentiment.
We urgently need a new government.
It was actually starting to get a bit better. I was at a big international thingy last week and a few foreign colleagues remarked that British politics seems to have calmed down and that Rishi man isn't as mad as Boris or the other temporary woman last year.
Now we're back where we belong, making ourselves look like a risky investment.
The other thing that has changed is that business is now expecting and making steps to prepare for a Labour government. Yes Rishi may have given off an aura of being slightly more sane, but the key thing in all this is the expectation that someone else is going to be running the show in the medium term, and it looks to be boring Sir Kier. Business likes boring.
-“Delay the off-gas-grid fossil fuel ban until 2035 and relax the requirement from 100% to 80% of households” -“Relax the gas boiler phase-out target in 2035” -“no new energy efficiency regulations on homes” -“Increase the Boiler Upgrade Scheme grant by 50% to £7500” -“Announce the the requirement for all vehicles to have significant zero emission capability in the period 2030-35 is to be removed”
If you're in your early 30s, like myself, or younger - what do we really have to hope for? Why do I do my 9-5? Why should I care about saving a pension?
I can't save to buy a house, I can't afford a family, I don't believe I will see my pension because either the pension age will be so high or the economy will collapse in such a way my pension will be pointless, and the country and world will see environmental ravages annually that used to be once in a lifetime.
Why should my generation and those younger then us participate in a society that seems so gung ho in destroying any future for us?
The main reason you can't afford a house is because the population of the country has risen from 55 million in 1990 to 68 million today.
And that is mainly due to immigration as the birthrate is below replacement level in the UK (though house prices are much cheaper outside London and the south).
100 years ago of course most rented all their lives and state pensions only really came in early last century but didn't stop them having 3+ children on average.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Welcome to how most people buy big ticket stuff in the real world. That is not going to change.
And 2030 is seven years away. Is the government telling us that the cost of living crisis has at least another seven years to run?
It might not change but it is still a huge deal for people on the average wage. £200/month after tax to finance a £12k car. More if their credit score is wonky.
But no issue whatsoever for PB.
And that's why most people on average wage do not change their cars very often.
I'm not sure that "British people are too poor to cope with net zero" is quite the election winner for a government that's been in charge of the economy for the last 13 years they think it is.
I think you might find it's a better election winner than "We assume that everyone is rich enough to cope with a huge chunk taken out of their income in order to drastically reduce our already infinitesimally small contribution to world CO2 emmissions"
That's why the government should explain how important the transition is for our national security - a energy self-sufficient UK is much better placed to take on the likes of Russia.
That's just one of the positive externalities of Net Zero.
Sources in the car industry utterly furious with the government - senior figure tells me they received personal reassurances from govt ministers that everything was on track just LAST WEEK - no mention of this delay at that point
“The UK is closed for business,” they say
Those of us who thought anyone would be better than Truss are getting a tad worried that we may be proved wrong.
Rishi looks like an utter joke from here.
Lord knows how you must feel about the current President and his predecessor. I suppose the fact the PM is expected to focus on dangerous dogs does show that contrary to what the New York Times reports, the sky hasn't fallen in post Brexit.
Well done Rishi on pushing back those measures, they were always unattainable and performative and it was clear as day that this was the case.
As interestingly, where does Lab go with it. Vote for us to pay thousands more for boilers, house insulation, and cars.
This is at the intersection of saving the planet and saving for a new Playstation and I'm pretty sure I know which will win.
None of these policies will ever see the light of day. The car manufacturers have already told Sunak that they aren't reversing course - indeed expect a harsh reaction from BMW whose investment announcement last week was predicated on Sunak not doing what he now appears to be doing.
And the rest? Cost comes down as volumes go up. The idea that home insulation is a cost demonstrates just how stupid the right are. It is an investment - spend money then save more money.
We don't have enough power generating capacity. Have become reliant on import of electricity and gas and refined fuels. And have suffered the economic consequences of this.
What we should do is invest in green tech (is cavity wall insulation "tech"?) - create a load of jobs, drive new investment, make and export more. And thus wean ourselves off imports.
Instead, the suggestion is that we sit cold in our uninsulated houses burning gas we can't afford which goes straight into the atmosphere as we rock gently chanting "we can't afford the green crap"
How stupid the right are. How stupid you are, that said, for not realising that you need capital to start with to be able to save all that money you identify. Spend £10,000 now and the payback time will be what, five years? Seven years? Fantastic investment.
Because you have £10,000 burning a hole in your back pocket right now. Because you can't for some strange reason given that you are on the "left" that people don't have £12k for a new (to them) second hand Renault Zoe, or £10k to insulate their homes.
People could bulk buy any commodity straight off the containership for thousands of pounds and save hundreds but they might not have the thousands of pounds to start with. Which you fail to realise.
As I said, when it comes to real world experiences PB is not the best place to come.
People who live in the real world know that you do not need £12,000 of capital in your back pocket to purchase a car being sold for £12,000.
Ah yes. You can get it on the never never. Because interest rates are now at an historic low. It's free money.
Have I got that right?
Edit: plus credit scores, existing outstanding obligations, plus...plus...
Another example of PB thinking it all so very simple.
Indeed I had the misfortune of my pc breaking completely last week, I earn a chunk more than average wage yet i am wondering where I am going to find 2k to replace the damn thing and get off the crappy laptop I dug out of storage. With my outgoings such as rent, council tax, water, power etc I can't really afford to take out a bank loan for it so "just get a 12k car" is totally out of reach even with borrowing for it
So what are you going to do? Not have a computer or get one?
No-one will be forced to buy an EV car in 2030. Some may want to, others will have to. For the latter, there may have to be very tough choices to make. But that is as it has always been.
I am working on a crappy laptop the last firm I worked for let me keep when they laid me off. It enables web browsing but that is about it. I am stuck with it for then 8 to 10 months probably assuming nothing more urgent breaks while I am trying to build up my savings enough. Your theory that everyone can just go out and go yeah I will put that 12k car on hp doesn't hold water for a huge number of people.
That's not my theory. It's how people do largely buy their cars. And those who cannot get HP or cannot afford it, do without. That is a cost of living issue that high interest rates exacerbate, but it has nothing to do with net zero.
My comment wasn't aimed at net zero however and no idea why you thought it was. My comment was directed at people here who think its easy for most to just go out and afford to shell out a few thousand here for a car, or a heat pump, or insulation because "it will save money in the long term". Yes it will however you need the disposable spare cash to make the payments on top of your living costs for it to be viable
Pagan - people *already are* shelling out for these things. They have a boiler which is knackered and has to be replaced. The measures are to drive the industry to make them as efficient as possible, and to develop greener alternatives.
Yes of course there are a lot of people struggling thanks to the Tories. Many millions of them. A lot live in rented accommodation - and the proposed uturn utterly shafts them by letting the landlord leave them in expensive to heat homes. Others find themselves short on cash but with kids and a broken boiler. You'll be amazed to find that faced with your kids freezing over the winter people find the cash.
There is this lunatic suggestion that there is an arbitrary date where *everyone* has to buy a new boiler or whatever. This is nonsense - they get replaced as they break down.
The issue with boilers, that you are ignoring, is that a drop in replacement for boilers doesn't exist.
Hydrogen means serious pipe rework. Which in turn means tearing open floors and walls.
Heat Pumps the same - unless you go for a super shoddy job that will barely work.
Due to the religion of Not Building Houses, the incidence of costs will fall entirely on the renters. So mandating new boilers will simply raise rents.
I am in favour of reducing emissions to zero. But lying to ourselves about the costs and issues is just stupid. Caroline Lucas was on the BBC last night selling the bullshit that all of this won't actually cost money.
Sources in the car industry utterly furious with the government - senior figure tells me they received personal reassurances from govt ministers that everything was on track just LAST WEEK - no mention of this delay at that point
“The UK is closed for business,” they say
Those of us who thought anyone would be better than Truss are getting a tad worried that we may be proved wrong.
Rishi looks like an utter joke from here.
Last week US Twitter was wondering why the British Prime Minister was making a substance-free announcement about dogs - the sort of thing you’d expect here from the mayor of a middle-sized town.
That sounds like an old-fashioned cultural cringe on your part.
Not really.
Don’t you think it’s just BIZARRE that a the PM of a nuclear powered country should release a special announcement on a dog ban? It absolutely trivialises him.
It says a lot, both about the UK’s absurdly over-centralised governance, and indeed a kind of death of sane comms policy in an age of social media.
Sources in the car industry utterly furious with the government - senior figure tells me they received personal reassurances from govt ministers that everything was on track just LAST WEEK - no mention of this delay at that point
“The UK is closed for business,” they say
Those of us who thought anyone would be better than Truss are getting a tad worried that we may be proved wrong.
Rishi looks like an utter joke from here.
Last week US Twitter was wondering why the British Prime Minister was making a substance-free announcement about dogs - the sort of thing you’d expect here from the mayor of a middle-sized town.
He looks like an utter joke from everywhere.
However, the heat he's taking today from absolute morons raising hell because he's doing something that's actually falling in line with what the EU is doing (usually enough to generate seal clapping from the same people) makes the perpetrators look ridiculous, not Sunak.
Sources in the car industry utterly furious with the government - senior figure tells me they received personal reassurances from govt ministers that everything was on track just LAST WEEK - no mention of this delay at that point
“The UK is closed for business,” they say
Those of us who thought anyone would be better than Truss are getting a tad worried that we may be proved wrong.
Rishi looks like an utter joke from here.
Lord knows how you must feel about the current President and his predecessor. I suppose the fact the PM is expected to focus on dangerous dogs does show that contrary to what the New York Times reports, the sky hasn't fallen in post Brexit.
As long as I have been alive, American politics has been substantively more corrupt and less edifying than British politics.
Sources in the car industry utterly furious with the government - senior figure tells me they received personal reassurances from govt ministers that everything was on track just LAST WEEK - no mention of this delay at that point
“The UK is closed for business,” they say
Those of us who thought anyone would be better than Truss are getting a tad worried that we may be proved wrong.
Rishi looks like an utter joke from here.
Last week US Twitter was wondering why the British Prime Minister was making a substance-free announcement about dogs - the sort of thing you’d expect here from the mayor of a middle-sized town.
He looks like an utter joke from everywhere.
However, the heat he's taking today from absolute morons raising hell because he's doing something that's actually falling in line with what the EU is doing (usually enough to generate seal clapping from the same people) makes the perpetrators look ridiculous, not Sunak.
The EU policy for 2035 is different to the UK's for 2030.
This has been explained repeatedly on here by Dura Ace. Which makes you look rather ridiculous.
Throughout history there has been catastrophism and we are seeing it here, today, on PB. If we don't get rid of everything now we are doomed. In fact we are already doomed we are just polishing the wood on the deckchairs. Woe is us. We, one of the richest, most developed countries on the planet, with a quality of life literally billions can't even imagine are whinging, with no self-consciousness whatsoever, about the attributes of a battery pack for a £40k car.
And I'm a rightwing ratfucker, according to site orthodoxy while the true guardians of left values are telling people to suck it up and just go out and spend money.
Oh but it's for the planet, they cry, as if will no one think of the children has not been the clarion call of such activists since the beginning of time.
Total, total arseholes.
Ahem.
No, you're just an old guy who'd rather not have to think about the problems you'll leave for the next generation. While telling them to cheer up about it.
Throughout history there has been catastrophism and we are seeing it here, today, on PB. If we don't get rid of everything now we are doomed. In fact we are already doomed we are just polishing the wood on the deckchairs. Woe is us. We, one of the richest, most developed countries on the planet, with a quality of life literally billions can't even imagine are whinging, with no self-consciousness whatsoever, about the attributes of a battery pack for a £40k car.
And I'm a rightwing ratfucker, according to site orthodoxy while the true guardians of left values are telling people to suck it up and just go out and spend money.
Oh but it's for the planet, they cry, as if will no one think of the children has not been the clarion call of such activists since the beginning of time.
Total, total arseholes.
Ahem.
No, people are pointing out that there is no need to go out and spend money.
Don't want an EV? Don't buy one. There will be ICEVs available well into the 2040s (and for the poorer, buying older cars, that is what they will be buying well past 2030). There will be gas boilers in homes well past 2040. People have an absolute right to sit in badly insulated homes and pay excessively for energy*; the only difference is that people renting (again the poorer, not exclusively, but often, particularly in poorly insulated homes) will get better insulated homes and lower energy bills (and yes, maybe higher rent, but the maths says that the rent increase should be less than the energy savings). Well, probably housing supply and demand will mean that rent increases dwarf any insulation-related costs anyway, but that's just renters getting screwed as usual.
*I take the point about capital cost - we need a scheme where people can get insulation now for a charge on energy (capped to never make them worse off than without insulating) over the next X years
The mingeing on here about the cost of getting a replacement laptop or a replacement car is precisely the attitude that prevails in Treasury and the country at large.
It’s why Britain increasingly “can’t have nice things”.
Throughout history there has been catastrophism and we are seeing it here, today, on PB. If we don't get rid of everything now we are doomed. In fact we are already doomed we are just polishing the wood on the deckchairs. Woe is us. We, one of the richest, most developed countries on the planet, with a quality of life literally billions can't even imagine are whinging, with no self-consciousness whatsoever, about the attributes of a battery pack for a £40k car.
And I'm a rightwing ratfucker, according to site orthodoxy while the true guardians of left values are telling people to suck it up and just go out and spend money.
Oh but it's for the planet, they cry, as if will no one think of the children has not been the clarion call of such activists since the beginning of time.
Total, total arseholes.
Ahem.
No, you're just an old guy who'd rather not have to think about the problems you'll leave for the next generation. While telling them to cheer up about it.
Nah. I just realise that the PB demographic is one which engages in reckless, idealistic flights of fancy and is pretty divorced from the real world.
Sources in the car industry utterly furious with the government - senior figure tells me they received personal reassurances from govt ministers that everything was on track just LAST WEEK - no mention of this delay at that point
“The UK is closed for business,” they say
Those of us who thought anyone would be better than Truss are getting a tad worried that we may be proved wrong.
It’s almost always better to have a government with ideas and a legislative egenda, even if you disagree with them, than a government with no idea at all.
If Corbyn had won the 2017 election, he’d have been yesterday’s man a year ago. Instead, we have a government with no ideas, and an opposition with seemingly no ideas either.
Sources in the car industry utterly furious with the government - senior figure tells me they received personal reassurances from govt ministers that everything was on track just LAST WEEK - no mention of this delay at that point
“The UK is closed for business,” they say
Those of us who thought anyone would be better than Truss are getting a tad worried that we may be proved wrong.
Rishi looks like an utter joke from here.
Last week US Twitter was wondering why the British Prime Minister was making a substance-free announcement about dogs - the sort of thing you’d expect here from the mayor of a middle-sized town.
That sounds like an old-fashioned cultural cringe on your part.
Not really.
Don’t you think it’s just BIZARRE that a the PM of a nuclear powered country should release a special announcement on a dog ban? It absolutely trivialises him.
It says a lot, both about the UK’s absurdly over-centralised governance, and indeed a kind of death of sane comms policy in an age of social media.
(NB, I agree with the ban itself).
So a leader of a nuclear power shouldn’t be making statements when there is a spate of attacks and death from something that is dangerous, should be banned, is far from what the original rules and customs existed for.
I’m guessing Biden will not make any pronouncements about gun ownership in the US after the next spate of shootings - he should just leave it to whichever minister is responsible?
Or Macron will keep quiet about any newsworthy problem in France where the media are baying for action?
I’m also guessing that the media will stop asking leaders what they think or what they are going to do about situations as it would trivialise the leaders having to opine on anything.
Comments
No-one will be forced to buy an EV car in 2030. Some may want to, others will have to. For the latter, there may have to be very tough choices to make. But that is as it has always been.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2023_New_Zealand_general_election"
The misapprehensions around this are breathtaking.
Sorry I’m a day late on this.
And I'm a rightwing ratfucker, according to site orthodoxy while the true guardians of left values are telling people to suck it up and just go out and spend money.
Oh but it's for the planet, they cry, as if will no one think of the children has not been the clarion call of such activists since the beginning of time.
Total, total arseholes.
Ahem.
I don't have a low rate overnight tariff as Octopus doesn't have an integration for my charging point yet. If and when that happens charging should return to being a fraction of filling up even if electricity prices don't drop.
They have taken votes from the economically liberal Act Party.
Previously it was assumed that National / Act were safely on course to take power. Now that looks like it could be National / NZFirst.
Or even Lab / Green / NZFirst.
Act refuse to work with NZFirst, because it’s leader Winston Peters is a populist crook. Wherever you see Peters, a funding scandal is never far away.
"MPGe is the unit of measurement for an electric car’s energy consumption level to compare with gas-powered vehicles’ fuel consumption.
A gas-powered car earning 35 miles per gallon is considered to be great. EVs can get 100 MPGe with ease."
https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/what-is-mpge/
They are talking about American gallons, but the comparison is still valid.
If the electricity is coming from your solar panels it could be free or from Octopus etc overnight it could be cheap. Also carbon free depending on the source.
This is far from the gleaming functional France most people see on their holidays. I can’t wait to escape
If they buy an ICE in 2029 then it's possible they could still be running it near 2050
Blimey. Former Tory minister calls for an immediate election (and by implication that he wants the Conservatives to lose it).
@Kevin_Maguire
No greater sign of panic than an emergency press conference.
Sunak 4.30pm today.
I’m fed up with posters pretending that all voters are going to have to fork out £40k come 2030. The number of people I know who are buying brand new cars for cash is very very small.
Jacob Rees-Mogg brands Boris Johnson a 'Net Zero zealot' and tells @BBCWorldatOne that the former PM took a 'high wire' approach to pursuing the goal
@DPJHodges
It’s becoming a bit like the final scene in Reservoir Dogs where everyone starts pointing a gun at everyone else…
Sources in the car industry utterly furious with the government - senior figure tells me they received personal reassurances from govt ministers that everything was on track just LAST WEEK - no mention of this delay at that point
“The UK is closed for business,” they say
Viewed objectively, there are few times and
places it has been better to be born in, than in a modern Western country.
Which doesn’t mean that there aren’t real injustices to be addressed, like that in the header.
We urgently need a new government.
God help us.
Same with cars. You can keep a car running for only so long before the costs are greater than sanity. So people chop them in - most people buy used, but they still cost.
The car industry only works because sales are financed. A lot of the bigger home improvements are also financed. So this is not about forcing people to spend money they don't have on things they don't want. Its driving their existing and going to happen spending onto things which advance energy saving. That's it.
You can get an Apple MacAir for £1k - and that has some serious performance.
What do you actually need?
Used these guys https://www.novatech.co.uk/ for years for desktop machines. And they are pretty high end…
Last week US Twitter was wondering why the British Prime Minister was making a substance-free announcement about dogs - the sort of thing you’d expect here from the mayor of a middle-sized town.
EVs are more expensive to purchase, cheaper to service, but the biggest variable is the cost of the electricity - if you can charge at home overnight it’s great, but if you have to use the fast chargers on motorways it’s very expensive.
The scientific consensus is that a world above 2 degrees Celsius from industrial averages would be catastrophic. That is not a millenarian channelling the word of God. It isn't some street preacher saying we all deserve to die. It is the consensus of hundreds of thousands of individuals chasing the evidence across multiple scientific disciplines.
https://climate.nasa.gov/news/3278/nasa-study-reveals-compounding-climate-risks-at-two-degrees-of-warming/
I reckon my 60mpg petrol hybrid costs 21p in petrol per mile, so more than twice the cost, and that is the most economically ICE car that I have ever had.
Call me an old prude but it’s not attractive. Happily I am now on the train to Toulouse. Let’s hope things improve. I don’t want that to be my last image of La Belle France
Now we're back where we belong, making ourselves look like a risky investment.
Yes of course there are a lot of people struggling thanks to the Tories. Many millions of them. A lot live in rented accommodation - and the proposed uturn utterly shafts them by letting the landlord leave them in expensive to heat homes. Others find themselves short on cash but with kids and a broken boiler. You'll be amazed to find that faced with your kids freezing over the winter people find the cash.
There is this lunatic suggestion that there is an arbitrary date where *everyone* has to buy a new boiler or whatever. This is nonsense - they get replaced as they break down.
It’s why Britain increasingly “can’t have nice things”.
“I knew you were the real deal” swoons O’Brien towards the end
https://youtu.be/h7gnhFHsHdY?si=4Ib2tRX0jr6CLdTR
Clearly, "Uxbridge Man" or is that "Ruislip Woman" is now the core vote driving Conservative policy. Said individual is supposedly pro-car anti-"the Green crap" and even if they aren't outright climate change deniers or sceptics, take the view "we're a small island, why should we change everything if China and India aren't going to?"
These are the arguments that will need to be refuted.
I'm left with the thought as the country which started the Industrial Revolution and all that flowed from it, why not be the one that leads the next phase in technological, social and political terms development by embracing a new economic model based on sustainability.
That means commitments to R&D investment in ways to not only mitigate the environmental damage which has been done but to allow for sustainable economic growth in the decades ahead.
Winter is on the horizon, and that means endless adverts from British Gas and others for boiler insurance. Why? Because they know that boilers fail in the winter when under heaviest use.
Broke or not, nobody sits in a cold house in the winter after their boiler packs in. You stick a new one on finance and worry about the cash once the circulation has returned to your kid's toes.
100 years ago of course most rented all their lives and state pensions only really came in early last century but didn't stop them having 3+ children on average.
As for the climate crisis
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/18/europe-turning-against-prophets-of-climate-alarmism/
That's just one of the positive externalities of Net Zero.
Hydrogen means serious pipe rework. Which in turn means tearing open floors and walls.
Heat Pumps the same - unless you go for a super shoddy job that will barely work.
Due to the religion of Not Building Houses, the incidence of costs will fall entirely on the renters. So mandating new boilers will simply raise rents.
I am in favour of reducing emissions to zero. But lying to ourselves about the costs and issues is just stupid. Caroline Lucas was on the BBC last night selling the bullshit that all of this won't actually cost money.
Yes, it will cost money. And it needs to be done.
Don’t you think it’s just BIZARRE that a the PM of a nuclear powered country should release a special announcement on a dog ban? It absolutely trivialises him.
It says a lot, both about the UK’s absurdly over-centralised governance, and indeed a kind of death of sane comms policy in an age of social media.
(NB, I agree with the ban itself).
However, the heat he's taking today from absolute morons raising hell because he's doing something that's actually falling in line with what the EU is doing (usually enough to generate seal clapping from the same people) makes the perpetrators look ridiculous, not Sunak.
Both have deteriorated in the last several years.
Large signatures in labour held areas
In Jane Hutts constituency (Vale of Glamorgan) over 10,000 have signed which is 3 times her Senedd majority
https://petitions.senedd.wales/petitions/245548
You can't even organise yourselves to vote in a life saving government.
This has been explained repeatedly on here by Dura Ace. Which makes you look rather ridiculous.
While telling them to cheer up about it.
Don't want an EV? Don't buy one. There will be ICEVs available well into the 2040s (and for the poorer, buying older cars, that is what they will be buying well past 2030). There will be gas boilers in homes well past 2040. People have an absolute right to sit in badly insulated homes and pay excessively for energy*; the only difference is that people renting (again the poorer, not exclusively, but often, particularly in poorly insulated homes) will get better insulated homes and lower energy bills (and yes, maybe higher rent, but the maths says that the rent increase should be less than the energy savings). Well, probably housing supply and demand will mean that rent increases dwarf any insulation-related costs anyway, but that's just renters getting screwed as usual.
*I take the point about capital cost - we need a scheme where people can get insulation now for a charge on energy (capped to never make them worse off than without insulating) over the next X years
Rishi Sunak's approval rating has reached an all time low of -30.0%.
Approve: 25.4% (-2.8)
Disapprove: 55.4% (+6.2)
Changes w/ 20th Aug.
http://electionmaps.uk/polling
DO BETTER
Don't shoot the messenger.
And why are you shouting?
If Corbyn had won the 2017 election, he’d have been yesterday’s man a year ago. Instead, we have a government with no ideas, and an opposition with seemingly no ideas either.
As a betting site who is betting he will go even lower or maybe recover some of his rating
I’m guessing Biden will not make any pronouncements about gun ownership in the US after the next spate of shootings - he should just leave it to whichever minister is responsible?
Or Macron will keep quiet about any newsworthy problem in France where the media are baying for action?
I’m also guessing that the media will stop asking leaders what they think or what they are going to do about situations as it would trivialise the leaders having to opine on anything.