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Brand continues to dominate the front pages – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,215
edited October 2023 in General
imageBrand continues to dominate the front pages – politicalbetting.com

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  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,905
    Brand has certainly rained on Truss's parade.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937

    Brand has certainly rained on Truss's parade.

    That Truss "parade" - a series of Boris's hand-drawn buses?
  • To be pedantic - these are today's newspapers. Tomorrow's come out in next hour.

    No doubt will be similar.

    This story is huge.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,905

    Brand has certainly rained on Truss's parade.

    That Truss "parade" - a series of Boris's hand-drawn buses?
    You can't deny that Truss's relaunch today was an impressive and fascinating re-write of reality.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,100
    ...
  • Brand has certainly rained on Truss's parade.

    He's tarnished her Brand?
  • The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it

    It doesn't have to be this way as there is a case for 20mph round schools, hospitals and congested areas, but blanket no
  • Brand has certainly rained on Truss's parade.

    Have they ever met?
  • Brand has certainly rained on Truss's parade.

    Have they ever met?
    Expect it may rain on Starmer's parade with Macron tomorrow

    There is only one story in town and we know how the media will make it number one for days, even weeks to come
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,641
    edited September 2023

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it
    Oh boo hoo.

    The entire point is that policy shouldn’t be decided purely on the basis of what “drivers like”.
    You didn't include my caveat about the 20mph limit

    Anyway, 10,000 more signatures in the last hour or so

    Here is the petition

    https://petitions.senedd.wales/petitions/245548
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    viewcode said:

    There is a part of me that find this focus on Brand depressing. A decadent celeb is accused of doing a bad thing. Everybody is tieing it into their hobby-horses and it has bugger-all to do with politics, betting, nor political betting. Nothing Russell Brand ever did or said, or ever will, moved the polls one tick, including the Miliband interview. A spoilt child given far too much attention by a decadent media who think they are the world instead of an annoying froth.

    I suppose the point of interest is that, first, he used to be a prominent celebrity, and second, there could be interesting questions about who knew what. Example: the photos of Brand posing with the editor of the Guardian in 2013. Did nobody hear anything.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,905

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it

    It doesn't have to be this way as there is a case for 20mph round schools, hospitals and congested areas, but blanket no
    The Vale of Glamorgan council have managed it very well.

    ULEZ expansion and the 20mph implementation in Wales, Bristol and soon to be Scotland are a fantastic opportunity for the Conservatives to smash the Labour Party and in future the SNP.

    In both cases the Conservatives have played the politics masterfully. That is not to say the policies are not the right ones morally. Cleaner air, fewer urban child accidental deaths may be Marxism gone mad, but I can live with the hardship. And at 30,000 miles per year, most of which is in Wales, I am affected more than most. It is no real hardship. When the 20mph pilot came to St Brides Major, I was furious. I am used to it now.

    If the Conservatives can make political hay from opposing safety issues, good luck to them.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,137
    EPG said:

    viewcode said:

    There is a part of me that find this focus on Brand depressing. A decadent celeb is accused of doing a bad thing. Everybody is tieing it into their hobby-horses and it has bugger-all to do with politics, betting, nor political betting. Nothing Russell Brand ever did or said, or ever will, moved the polls one tick, including the Miliband interview. A spoilt child given far too much attention by a decadent media who think they are the world instead of an annoying froth.

    I suppose the point of interest is that, first, he used to be a prominent celebrity, and second, there could be interesting questions about who knew what. Example: the photos of Brand posing with the editor of the Guardian in 2013. Did nobody hear anything.
    The body language of the women in that photo, with their arms folded is interesting.

    The problem isn't those who were duped by Brand in the past, it is with those who are backing him now. People like Andrew Tate and Elon Musk.

    It's only a matter of time before Prince Andrew comes out as a character witness for Brand.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,691
    edited September 2023

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it
    Oh boo hoo.

    The entire point is that policy shouldn’t be decided purely on the basis of what “drivers like”.
    You didn't include my caveat about the 20mph limit

    Anyway, 10,000 more signatures in the last hour or so

    Here is the petition

    https://petitions.senedd.wales/petitions/245548
    Didn't know Wales was socialist‽ They should have appealed to the good nature of Chairman Drakeford.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,641
    edited September 2023

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it

    It doesn't have to be this way as there is a case for 20mph round schools, hospitals and congested areas, but blanket no
    The Vale of Glamorgan council have managed it very well.

    ULEZ expansion and the 20mph implementation in Wales, Bristol and soon to be Scotland are a fantastic opportunity for the Conservatives to smash the Labour Party and in future the SNP.

    In both cases the Conservatives have played the politics masterfully. That is not to say the policies are not the right ones morally. Cleaner air, fewer urban child accidental deaths may be Marxism gone mad, but I can live with the hardship. And at 30,000 miles per year, most of which is in Wales, I am affected more than most. It is no real hardship. When the 20mph pilot came to St Brides Major, I was furious. I am used to it now.

    If the Conservatives can make political hay from opposing safety issues, good luck to them.
    It simply does not have to be all or nothing

    And if it such a good idea is Starmer going to introduce it across England or is it another example that he has no control over the Labour London Mayor or the Labour Welsh first Minister?
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,044

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it
    Oh boo hoo.

    The entire point is that policy shouldn’t be decided purely on the basis of what “drivers like”.
    No, it should be on what lobbyists and ‘charities’ want.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,100
    Foxy said:

    The problem isn't those who were duped by Brand in the past, it is with those who are backing him now. People like Andrew Tate and Elon Musk.

    It's only a matter of time before Prince Andrew comes out as a character witness for Brand.

    FPT


  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,137
    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    The problem isn't those who were duped by Brand in the past, it is with those who are backing him now. People like Andrew Tate and Elon Musk.

    It's only a matter of time before Prince Andrew comes out as a character witness for Brand.

    FPT


    It's quite funny how people professing old fashioned Christian morality like Petersen and the fake cleric have come out for Brand.

    It's like they don't understand morality.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,100
    From Hugo Rifkind's column in The Times tonight

    “HAVE you bonked Russell Brand this week?” asked the Sun, “Call us on . . .” This, after the News of the World had reported that “RANDY Russell Brand is coming to the Edinburgh Festival with women on his mind”, noting that “The BB host has asked for a flat across the road from the theatre where he’ll star, to save time getting groupies into bed. Let’s hope the bedroom action lasts longer than the walk!”

    Soon afterwards, Edinburgh police got involved after a woman claimed to have been drugged and raped in the flat in question. Charges would eventually be filed against Brand’s flatmate then dropped, and Brand himself would go on to win damages from the Daily Star for implying it had been all about him. In the interim, though, he had a good laugh about it while accepting a GQ Award. “I never did a sex attack,” he declared. “At the time I was having consensual sex with witnesses — consensual mind — and a lovely evening it turned out to be.” The room chortled. While somewhere else, perhaps, some forever nameless woman tried to pull her shattered life back together.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/it-used-to-be-a-laugh-except-for-the-victims-mjlld6290
  • Brand has certainly rained on Truss's parade.

    Have they ever met?
    One doubts they have ever been seen in the same room together.

    Suspicious?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,905

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it

    It doesn't have to be this way as there is a case for 20mph round schools, hospitals and congested areas, but blanket no
    The Vale of Glamorgan council have managed it very well.

    ULEZ expansion and the 20mph implementation in Wales, Bristol and soon to be Scotland are a fantastic opportunity for the Conservatives to smash the Labour Party and in future the SNP.

    In both cases the Conservatives have played the politics masterfully. That is not to say the policies are not the right ones morally. Cleaner air, fewer urban child accidental deaths may be Marxism gone mad, but I can live with the hardship. And at 30,000 miles per year, most of which is in Wales, I am affected more than most. It is no real hardship. When the 20mph pilot came to St Brides Major, I was furious. I am used to it now.

    If the Conservatives can make political hay from opposing safety issues, good luck to them.
    It simply does not have to be all or nothing

    And if it such a good idea is Starmer going to introduce it across England or is it another example that he has no control over the Labour London Mayor or the Labour Welsh first Minister?
    And in the Vale of Glamorgan it isn't.

    In my village most has remained at 30 except the central area of the village, by the school and around the village green/ park. It has been progressed here in exactly the way you are demanding.

    If the Conservatives can pull off a magnificent win on the back of this and ULEZ, that is fantastic politics. Good luck to you and them.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Breathless by Sky news on Brand
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it

    It doesn't have to be this way as there is a case for 20mph round schools, hospitals and congested areas, but blanket no
    The Vale of Glamorgan council have managed it very well.

    ULEZ expansion and the 20mph implementation in Wales, Bristol and soon to be Scotland are a fantastic opportunity for the Conservatives to smash the Labour Party and in future the SNP.

    In both cases the Conservatives have played the politics masterfully. That is not to say the policies are not the right ones morally. Cleaner air, fewer urban child accidental deaths may be Marxism gone mad, but I can live with the hardship. And at 30,000 miles per year, most of which is in Wales, I am affected more than most. It is no real hardship. When the 20mph pilot came to St Brides Major, I was furious. I am used to it now.

    If the Conservatives can make political hay from opposing safety issues, good luck to them.
    It simply does not have to be all or nothing

    And if it such a good idea is Starmer going to introduce it across England or is it another example that he has no control over the Labour London Mayor or the Labour Welsh first Minister?
    And in the Vale of Glamorgan it isn't.

    In my village most has remained at 30 except the central area of the village, by the school and around the village green/ park. It has been progressed here in exactly the way you are demanding.

    If the Conservatives can pull off a magnificent win on the back of this and ULEZ, that is fantastic politics. Good luck to you and them.
    But not to the children.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,661
    Foxy said:

    EPG said:

    viewcode said:

    There is a part of me that find this focus on Brand depressing. A decadent celeb is accused of doing a bad thing. Everybody is tieing it into their hobby-horses and it has bugger-all to do with politics, betting, nor political betting. Nothing Russell Brand ever did or said, or ever will, moved the polls one tick, including the Miliband interview. A spoilt child given far too much attention by a decadent media who think they are the world instead of an annoying froth.

    I suppose the point of interest is that, first, he used to be a prominent celebrity, and second, there could be interesting questions about who knew what. Example: the photos of Brand posing with the editor of the Guardian in 2013. Did nobody hear anything.
    The body language of the women in that photo, with their arms folded is interesting.

    The problem isn't those who were duped by Brand in the past, it is with those who are backing him now. People like Andrew Tate and Elon Musk.

    It's only a matter of time before Prince Andrew comes out as a character witness for Brand.
    Just what is it about pretentious 'alpha male' Russell Brand that attracts the admiration of men like Andrew Tate and Elon Musk?
  • The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it

    It doesn't have to be this way as there is a case for 20mph round schools, hospitals and congested areas, but blanket no
    The Vale of Glamorgan council have managed it very well.

    ULEZ expansion and the 20mph implementation in Wales, Bristol and soon to be Scotland are a fantastic opportunity for the Conservatives to smash the Labour Party and in future the SNP.

    In both cases the Conservatives have played the politics masterfully. That is not to say the policies are not the right ones morally. Cleaner air, fewer urban child accidental deaths may be Marxism gone mad, but I can live with the hardship. And at 30,000 miles per year, most of which is in Wales, I am affected more than most. It is no real hardship. When the 20mph pilot came to St Brides Major, I was furious. I am used to it now.

    If the Conservatives can make political hay from opposing safety issues, good luck to them.
    It simply does not have to be all or nothing

    And if it such a good idea is Starmer going to introduce it across England or is it another example that he has no control over the Labour London Mayor or the Labour Welsh first Minister?
    And in the Vale of Glamorgan it isn't.

    In my village most has remained at 30 except the central area of the village, by the school and around the village green/ park. It has been progressed here in exactly the way you are demanding.

    If the Conservatives can pull off a magnificent win on the back of this and ULEZ, that is fantastic politics. Good luck to you and them.
    It has not been applied like that here and your description is exactly how a sensible council should act

    Hopefully with the outcry more sense will be applied

    I want to make it clear, I am not opposed to 20mph zones in locations that involve schools, hospitals and congested areas including village centres
  • Watched the 2nd part of State of Chaos.

    It doesn't reflect well on Boris, but it also doesn't reflect well on the Civil Service either. Many of those interviewed came across as quite arrogant, particularly Lord MacDonald, with a "this is how we've always done things attitude"

    I'd be interested to know if they think the system is working better now. Clearly, Rishi is probably more to the Civil Service's liking but the Government is failing to deliver on his pledges.

    I'm of the view that actually the system did actually need a really good shake up but the tragedy is that Boris and Truss weren't able to manage it due to personal failings (lack of seriousness and organisation from Boris, lack of communication skills from Truss).

    And so now we will go back to insiders who will fail, but fail in an acceptable manner.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    edited September 2023
    viewcode said:

    There is a part of me that find this focus on Brand depressing. A decadent celeb is accused of doing a bad thing. Everybody is tieing it into their hobby-horses and it has bugger-all to do with politics, betting, nor political betting. Nothing Russell Brand ever did or said, or ever will, moved the polls one tick, including the Miliband interview. A spoilt child given far too much attention by a decadent media who think they are the world instead of an annoying froth.

    There are three underlying stories of interest.

    1. How it is that celebrating and rewarding sleazy, crude people results in sleazy, crude people behaving in sleazy and crude ways, if not worse. We seem to have abandoned any sense of public decency or standards or behaviour and, far too often, praised and rewarded laddish, disgusting and immoral behaviour and then act all shocked when we see the results of such behaviour. See football. See TV etc. See also the City which turned a blind eye to bad behaviour by its "stars" if they made big enough profits. How did that turn out?

    2. How women - who are often, though not invariably - the victims of such behaviour are treated when they speak up about it. And how those who knew, who turned a blind eye or who profited from such behaviour fail to reflect on the consequences of their inaction. The Guardian, remarkably, seems to have forgotten that it had Brand as a columnist for many years. It is much like Max Hastings hawking his little spiel about Johnson's unfitness & how he always knew while - mysteriously - failing to mention that he continued employing him even after his epiphany about how untrustworthy he was. The All Party Parliamentary Group on whistleblowing might usefully consider why it is that few blew the whistle or were ignored if they did and what they might learn from this.

    3. Finally, the politically important issue of the degradation of our police investigation capabilities and of the criminal justice system. Even if women do report to the police and can trust them - not just not to abuse them but to put the rape kit tests in a fridge that closes (see the recent Casey report) - and investigate and charges are laid, it could be years - half a decade in some cases - before there is a trial. This is not justice. It is hideously unfair to both defendant and victim and to the witnesses. It is something which political parties could put right but no-one talks about it and even Labour, with an ex-CPS head in charge, has made no real commitment to invest properly in one of the fundamental functions of the state, of any properly run state.

    Other than that it has nothing to do with politics.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Cobalt clouds over Cathar Country: rainstorms say Return, return



    What, to the EU?
    I heard their young hearts crying
    Loveward above the glancing oar
    And heard the prairie grasses sighing:
    No more, return no more!

    O hearts, O sighing grasses,
    Vainly your loveblown bannerets mourn!
    No more will the wild wind that passes
    Return, no more return.
    There once was a man from Looe
    Who pretended to hate the EU
    All knew he was lying -
    That man's always flying
    To Berlin, Milan, and Bayeux
    Not bad. But the first line is all wrong, not enough syllables, and doesn’t flow. Looe is divided into East and West, so you can use that; and you should also include an insult, therefore

    There was an old man from West Looe

    Is a much better opening line
    Did you spot the acrostic? That's where I hid the insult.
    Of course he spotted it - he's got an IQ of 143.762 after all.

    Seriously, well-played!
  • Farooq said:

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it

    It doesn't have to be this way as there is a case for 20mph round schools, hospitals and congested areas, but blanket no
    The Vale of Glamorgan council have managed it very well.

    ULEZ expansion and the 20mph implementation in Wales, Bristol and soon to be Scotland are a fantastic opportunity for the Conservatives to smash the Labour Party and in future the SNP.

    In both cases the Conservatives have played the politics masterfully. That is not to say the policies are not the right ones morally. Cleaner air, fewer urban child accidental deaths may be Marxism gone mad, but I can live with the hardship. And at 30,000 miles per year, most of which is in Wales, I am affected more than most. It is no real hardship. When the 20mph pilot came to St Brides Major, I was furious. I am used to it now.

    If the Conservatives can make political hay from opposing safety issues, good luck to them.
    It simply does not have to be all or nothing

    And if it such a good idea is Starmer going to introduce it across England or is it another example that he has no control over the Labour London Mayor or the Labour Welsh first Minister?
    And in the Vale of Glamorgan it isn't.

    In my village most has remained at 30 except the central area of the village, by the school and around the village green/ park. It has been progressed here in exactly the way you are demanding.

    If the Conservatives can pull off a magnificent win on the back of this and ULEZ, that is fantastic politics. Good luck to you and them.
    It has not been applied like that here and your description is exactly how a sensible council should act

    Hopefully with the outcry more sense will be applied

    I want to make it clear, I am not opposed to 20mph zones in locations that involve schools, hospitals and congested areas including village centres
    You live in Llandudno, yes? Which roads in your area have changed to 20 that you think should be 30?
    Probably many that were 30mph but not all to be fair
  • Tomorrow's early front pages are dominated by Brand
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    North Wales doorsteps this week


  • Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it

    It doesn't have to be this way as there is a case for 20mph round schools, hospitals and congested areas, but blanket no
    The Vale of Glamorgan council have managed it very well.

    ULEZ expansion and the 20mph implementation in Wales, Bristol and soon to be Scotland are a fantastic opportunity for the Conservatives to smash the Labour Party and in future the SNP.

    In both cases the Conservatives have played the politics masterfully. That is not to say the policies are not the right ones morally. Cleaner air, fewer urban child accidental deaths may be Marxism gone mad, but I can live with the hardship. And at 30,000 miles per year, most of which is in Wales, I am affected more than most. It is no real hardship. When the 20mph pilot came to St Brides Major, I was furious. I am used to it now.

    If the Conservatives can make political hay from opposing safety issues, good luck to them.
    It simply does not have to be all or nothing

    And if it such a good idea is Starmer going to introduce it across England or is it another example that he has no control over the Labour London Mayor or the Labour Welsh first Minister?
    And in the Vale of Glamorgan it isn't.

    In my village most has remained at 30 except the central area of the village, by the school and around the village green/ park. It has been progressed here in exactly the way you are demanding.

    If the Conservatives can pull off a magnificent win on the back of this and ULEZ, that is fantastic politics. Good luck to you and them.
    It has not been applied like that here and your description is exactly how a sensible council should act

    Hopefully with the outcry more sense will be applied

    I want to make it clear, I am not opposed to 20mph zones in locations that involve schools, hospitals and congested areas including village centres
    You live in Llandudno, yes? Which roads in your area have changed to 20 that you think should be 30?
    Probably many that were 30mph but not all to be fair
    No, I mean can you specifically name a road that has changed and shouldn't have?
    There are multiple changes in multiple roads so I am not getting into a road by road, yard by yard discussion but will leave it to the groups organising to take on the councillors to review the changes and expect changes will happen , indeed in line with the legislation
  • kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    EPG said:

    viewcode said:

    There is a part of me that find this focus on Brand depressing. A decadent celeb is accused of doing a bad thing. Everybody is tieing it into their hobby-horses and it has bugger-all to do with politics, betting, nor political betting. Nothing Russell Brand ever did or said, or ever will, moved the polls one tick, including the Miliband interview. A spoilt child given far too much attention by a decadent media who think they are the world instead of an annoying froth.

    I suppose the point of interest is that, first, he used to be a prominent celebrity, and second, there could be interesting questions about who knew what. Example: the photos of Brand posing with the editor of the Guardian in 2013. Did nobody hear anything.
    The body language of the women in that photo, with their arms folded is interesting.

    The problem isn't those who were duped by Brand in the past, it is with those who are backing him now. People like Andrew Tate and Elon Musk.

    It's only a matter of time before Prince Andrew comes out as a character witness for Brand.
    Just what is it about pretentious 'alpha male' Russell Brand that attracts the admiration of men like Andrew Tate and Elon Musk?
    Musk comes across not so much as a man leaping to the defence of someone wrongly accused, as someone rehearsing his lines for when it inevitably happens to him.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    edited September 2023

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it

    It doesn't have to be this way as there is a case for 20mph round schools, hospitals and congested areas, but blanket no
    The Vale of Glamorgan council have managed it very well.

    ULEZ expansion and the 20mph implementation in Wales, Bristol and soon to be Scotland are a fantastic opportunity for the Conservatives to smash the Labour Party and in future the SNP.

    In both cases the Conservatives have played the politics masterfully. That is not to say the policies are not the right ones morally. Cleaner air, fewer urban child accidental deaths may be Marxism gone mad, but I can live with the hardship. And at 30,000 miles per year, most of which is in Wales, I am affected more than most. It is no real hardship. When the 20mph pilot came to St Brides Major, I was furious. I am used to it now.

    If the Conservatives can make political hay from opposing safety issues, good luck to them.
    It simply does not have to be all or nothing

    And if it such a good idea is Starmer going to introduce it across England or is it another example that he has no control over the Labour London Mayor or the Labour Welsh first Minister?
    And in the Vale of Glamorgan it isn't.

    In my village most has remained at 30 except the central area of the village, by the school and around the village green/ park. It has been progressed here in exactly the way you are demanding.

    If the Conservatives can pull off a magnificent win on the back of this and ULEZ, that is fantastic politics. Good luck to you and them.
    It has not been applied like that here and your description is exactly how a sensible council should act

    Hopefully with the outcry more sense will be applied

    I want to make it clear, I am not opposed to 20mph zones in locations that involve schools, hospitals and congested areas including village centres
    You live in Llandudno, yes? Which roads in your area have changed to 20 that you think should be 30?
    Probably many that were 30mph but not all to be fair
    No, I mean can you specifically name a road that has changed and shouldn't have?
    There are multiple changes in multiple roads so I am not getting into a road by road, yard by yard discussion but will leave it to the groups organising to take on the councillors to review the changes and expect changes will happen , indeed in line with the legislation
    Feels like a first world problem Big_G.

    Tbh I wish we could have a 20mph in our village, it might have saved our old dog who was killed on the road outside our house by a driver who was probably sticking to the 30mph limit. But Dorset Council is notoriously anti 20mph limits and make it nigh on impossible to obtain.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    edited September 2023

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it
    Oh boo hoo.

    The entire point is that policy shouldn’t be decided purely on the basis of what “drivers like”.
    You didn't include my caveat about the 20mph limit

    Anyway, 10,000 more signatures in the last hour or so

    Here is the petition

    https://petitions.senedd.wales/petitions/245548
    500,000 people have signed the Pro XL Bully petition too. The dogs that go around mauling small children.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,952

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it
    Oh boo hoo.

    The entire point is that policy shouldn’t be decided purely on the basis of what “drivers like”.
    25 mph in the centre of built-up areas would have been a compromise.
  • Posted without comment...


    George Mann
    @sgfmann
    ·
    11m
    The Sun: How many more?

    #TomorrowsPapersToday

    https://twitter.com/sgfmann/status/1703885893721887003
  • Andy_JS said:

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it
    Oh boo hoo.

    The entire point is that policy shouldn’t be decided purely on the basis of what “drivers like”.
    25 mph in the centre of built-up areas would have been a compromise.
    Actually 20mph is sensible in congested areas

    The problem in Wales is that a virtual blanket reduction from 30mph to 20mph is not seen as reasonable on some of the roads currently at 30mph and compromise will happen
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    Eabhal said:

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it
    Oh boo hoo.

    The entire point is that policy shouldn’t be decided purely on the basis of what “drivers like”.
    You didn't include my caveat about the 20mph limit

    Anyway, 10,000 more signatures in the last hour or so

    Here is the petition

    https://petitions.senedd.wales/petitions/245548
    500,000 people have signed the Pro XL Bully petition too. The dogs that go around mauling small children.
    All the petitions that have gathered over 500,000 signatures have failed to achieve any change.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_Parliament_petitions_website#Petitions_with_more_than_500,000_signatures
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    edited September 2023

    Andy_JS said:

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it
    Oh boo hoo.

    The entire point is that policy shouldn’t be decided purely on the basis of what “drivers like”.
    25 mph in the centre of built-up areas would have been a compromise.
    Actually 20mph is sensible in congested areas

    The problem in Wales is that a virtual blanket reduction from 30mph to 20mph is not seen as reasonable on some of the roads currently at 30mph and compromise will happen
    Which roads would you keep at 30mph? Here's your casualty map over the last 5 years.


  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it

    It doesn't have to be this way as there is a case for 20mph round schools, hospitals and congested areas, but blanket no
    It’s not a blanket 20mph though is it? I get that you don’t like the idea, but don’t understand why you just make stuff up.

    We’ve had 20mph universally near me for a while now, took a few weeks to get used to, but ended up preferring it. Few people would go back now, if anything it’s made driving more pleasant. People are slower into pinch points, have more time, and get out of the way. More courteous.
    I think the big difference is you just have more time to read road signs, check for children running about, anticipate traffic light changes etc
  • The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it

    It doesn't have to be this way as there is a case for 20mph round schools, hospitals and congested areas, but blanket no
    It’s not a blanket 20mph though is it? I get that you don’t like the idea, but don’t understand why you just make stuff up.

    We’ve had 20mph universally near me for a while now, took a few weeks to get used to, but ended up preferring it. Few people would go back now, if anything it’s made driving more pleasant. People are slower into pinch points, have more time, and get out of the way. More courteous.
    I do like the idea and if you read my comments I do support the sensible implementation of 20mph zones

    30mph has defaulted to 20mph with some exclusions

    Now Welsh road users have experienced the change there is considerable anger and ironically it is coming from North Wales and Drakeford's heartland
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Eabhal said:

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it

    It doesn't have to be this way as there is a case for 20mph round schools, hospitals and congested areas, but blanket no
    It’s not a blanket 20mph though is it? I get that you don’t like the idea, but don’t understand why you just make stuff up.

    We’ve had 20mph universally near me for a while now, took a few weeks to get used to, but ended up preferring it. Few people would go back now, if anything it’s made driving more pleasant. People are slower into pinch points, have more time, and get out of the way. More courteous.
    I think the big difference is you just have more time to read road signs, check for children running about, anticipate traffic light changes etc
    That’s it. I was agnostic at best about it when they brought it in here, but eventually got used to it. Everyone seems used to it now and having more time just makes for nicer urban driving. It’s not as if you could zip about anyway, the 20mph limit makes sense and nobody seems to want to go back now.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    It’s pretty much blanket 20mph around me. Only time I get significantly above is on the dual carriageway.

    I find blanket 20 easier than chopping and changing all the time because there’s less risk of accidentally getting zapped by the speed cam.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it

    It doesn't have to be this way as there is a case for 20mph round schools, hospitals and congested areas, but blanket no
    It’s not a blanket 20mph though is it? I get that you don’t like the idea, but don’t understand why you just make stuff up.

    We’ve had 20mph universally near me for a while now, took a few weeks to get used to, but ended up preferring it. Few people would go back now, if anything it’s made driving more pleasant. People are slower into pinch points, have more time, and get out of the way. More courteous.
    I do like the idea and if you read my comments I do support the sensible implementation of 20mph zones

    30mph has defaulted to 20mph with some exclusions

    Now Welsh road users have experienced the change there is considerable anger and ironically it is coming from North Wales and Drakeford's heartland
    It takes a few weeks to get used to it. But most people are good drivers and will learn. It’s like zen for cars. Recommended.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    TimS said:

    It’s pretty much blanket 20mph around me. Only time I get significantly above is on the dual carriageway.

    I find blanket 20 easier than chopping and changing all the time because there’s less risk of accidentally getting zapped by the speed cam.

    That too!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    ….
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    The Drake.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it

    It doesn't have to be this way as there is a case for 20mph round schools, hospitals and congested areas, but blanket no
    The Vale of Glamorgan council have managed it very well.

    ULEZ expansion and the 20mph implementation in Wales, Bristol and soon to be Scotland are a fantastic opportunity for the Conservatives to smash the Labour Party and in future the SNP.

    In both cases the Conservatives have played the politics masterfully. That is not to say the policies are not the right ones morally. Cleaner air, fewer urban child accidental deaths may be Marxism gone mad, but I can live with the hardship. And at 30,000 miles per year, most of which is in Wales, I am affected more than most. It is no real hardship. When the 20mph pilot came to St Brides Major, I was furious. I am used to it now.

    If the Conservatives can make political hay from opposing safety issues, good luck to them.
    It simply does not have to be all or nothing

    And if it such a good idea is Starmer going to introduce it across England or is it another example that he has no control over the Labour London Mayor or the Labour Welsh first Minister?
    And in the Vale of Glamorgan it isn't.

    In my village most has remained at 30 except the central area of the village, by the school and around the village green/ park. It has been progressed here in exactly the way you are demanding.

    If the Conservatives can pull off a magnificent win on the back of this and ULEZ, that is fantastic politics. Good luck to you and them.
    It has not been applied like that here and your description is exactly how a sensible council should act

    Hopefully with the outcry more sense will be applied

    I want to make it clear, I am not opposed to 20mph zones in locations that involve schools, hospitals and congested areas including village centres
    Children don't just run around outside schools. Unless you think they should be banned everywhere except schools and "village centres"? Inclouding the areas they live in?

    Is this the new messaging from Tories Cymru? To go for a few yards outside the Co-op and ignore the housing estates and parks and sports fields?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363
    Farooq said:

    The Drake.

    Mallard be thy name
    Or Anas.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,905
    edited September 2023

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it

    It doesn't have to be this way as there is a case for 20mph round schools, hospitals and congested areas, but blanket no
    It’s not a blanket 20mph though is it? I get that you don’t like the idea, but don’t understand why you just make stuff up.

    We’ve had 20mph universally near me for a while now, took a few weeks to get used to, but ended up preferring it. Few people would go back now, if anything it’s made driving more pleasant. People are slower into pinch points, have more time, and get out of the way. More courteous.
    I do like the idea and if you read my comments I do support the sensible implementation of 20mph zones

    30mph has defaulted to 20mph with some exclusions

    Now Welsh road users have experienced the change there is considerable anger and ironically it is coming from North Wales and Drakeford's heartland
    There is anger, whipped up by the Conservative Party. Penny Mordaunt, the AM for Portsmouth North was banging in about it just last week.

    Don't forget RT was in favour until the Uxbridge by election. 20 mph may well damage Labour in Wales and nationally. A small price if it saves a child's life.
  • I asked then as I ask now why such a person is given such a powerful place in the national debate.

    The answer, I think, lies in the astonishing power of celebrity over those deprived of any real hope in life.

    In our society, what would once have been a comfortable, secure way of life is incredibly hard to obtain.

    Education has failed, the economy offers little but low pay and high rents.

    Celebrities are like us, yet they are rich. The more like us they are, the more we love them for their success, and the more we listen to them.

    The older voices of education, research, skill, experience are just crabby, Victorian and outdated.

    Unless we can do something pretty radical about it, the future belongs to Russell Brand, or someone very like him.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12533021/PETER-HITCHENS-Trying-argument-Russell-Brand-like-playing-chess-squirrel-given-place-national-debate.html
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Very much enjoyed The Context on BBC News which was a Brand free zone .

    I’m utterly sick of the ridiculous amount of coverage this is getting.
  • nico679 said:

    Very much enjoyed The Context on BBC News which was a Brand free zone .

    I’m utterly sick of the ridiculous amount of coverage this is getting.

    Unfortunately the media are on this for the long haul
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    Carnyx said:

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it

    It doesn't have to be this way as there is a case for 20mph round schools, hospitals and congested areas, but blanket no
    The Vale of Glamorgan council have managed it very well.

    ULEZ expansion and the 20mph implementation in Wales, Bristol and soon to be Scotland are a fantastic opportunity for the Conservatives to smash the Labour Party and in future the SNP.

    In both cases the Conservatives have played the politics masterfully. That is not to say the policies are not the right ones morally. Cleaner air, fewer urban child accidental deaths may be Marxism gone mad, but I can live with the hardship. And at 30,000 miles per year, most of which is in Wales, I am affected more than most. It is no real hardship. When the 20mph pilot came to St Brides Major, I was furious. I am used to it now.

    If the Conservatives can make political hay from opposing safety issues, good luck to them.
    It simply does not have to be all or nothing

    And if it such a good idea is Starmer going to introduce it across England or is it another example that he has no control over the Labour London Mayor or the Labour Welsh first Minister?
    And in the Vale of Glamorgan it isn't.

    In my village most has remained at 30 except the central area of the village, by the school and around the village green/ park. It has been progressed here in exactly the way you are demanding.

    If the Conservatives can pull off a magnificent win on the back of this and ULEZ, that is fantastic politics. Good luck to you and them.
    It has not been applied like that here and your description is exactly how a sensible council should act

    Hopefully with the outcry more sense will be applied

    I want to make it clear, I am not opposed to 20mph zones in locations that involve schools, hospitals and congested areas including village centres
    Children don't just run around outside schools. Unless you think they should be banned everywhere except schools and "village centres"? Inclouding the areas they live in?

    Is this the new messaging from Tories Cymru? To go for a few yards outside the Co-op and ignore the housing estates and parks and sports fields?
    Here are child casualties, last 10 years:


  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,061
    Farooq said:

    The Drake.

    Mallard be thy name
    You want a ruddy u-tern. Have the treasury mandarins approved it? Wait till they introduce it to Aylesbury!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,952
    Pulpstar said:

    Breathless by Sky news on Brand

    The news channels are going a bit overboard on this subject.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    nico679 said:

    Very much enjoyed The Context on BBC News which was a Brand free zone .

    I’m utterly sick of the ridiculous amount of coverage this is getting.

    Unfortunately the media are on this for the long haul
    I find the coverage baffling, chiefly because Brand is by no stretch a major star. He had some middling fame some years
    ago but not now. Maybe I am missing something, dunno. That is not to say the allegations are not serious, they are, and should be investigated with the full force of the law, but the story is being treated like the Prince Andrew case — despite it being about a minor personality.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,061

    nico679 said:

    Very much enjoyed The Context on BBC News which was a Brand free zone .

    I’m utterly sick of the ridiculous amount of coverage this is getting.

    Unfortunately the media are on this for the long haul
    I find the coverage baffling, chiefly because Brand is by no stretch a major star. He had some middling fame some years
    ago but not now. Maybe I am missing something, dunno. That is not to say the allegations are not serious, they are, and should be investigated with the full force of the law, but the story is being treated like the Prince Andrew case — despite it being about a minor personality.
    It’s because the media think that we think they’re important.
  • nico679 said:

    Very much enjoyed The Context on BBC News which was a Brand free zone .

    I’m utterly sick of the ridiculous amount of coverage this is getting.

    Unfortunately the media are on this for the long haul
    I find the coverage baffling, chiefly because Brand is by no stretch a major star. He had some middling fame some years
    ago but not now. Maybe I am missing something, dunno. That is not to say the allegations are not serious, they are, and should be investigated with the full force of the law, but the story is being treated like the Prince Andrew case — despite it being about a minor personality.
    Apparently he has 6 million social media followers
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2023

    I asked then as I ask now why such a person is given such a powerful place in the national debate.

    The answer, I think, lies in the astonishing power of celebrity over those deprived of any real hope in life.

    In our society, what would once have been a comfortable, secure way of life is incredibly hard to obtain.

    Education has failed, the economy offers little but low pay and high rents.

    Celebrities are like us, yet they are rich. The more like us they are, the more we love them for their success, and the more we listen to them.

    The older voices of education, research, skill, experience are just crabby, Victorian and outdated.

    Unless we can do something pretty radical about it, the future belongs to Russell Brand, or someone very like him.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12533021/PETER-HITCHENS-Trying-argument-Russell-Brand-like-playing-chess-squirrel-given-place-national-debate.html

    “ Brand, in my view, is not stupid, though he is ill-informed and very bad at arguing. He makes much use of his teeth, baring them as he jeers. His voice, if you challenge him, is very strange.

    It is a sort of rising hedge-trimmer whine when he is trying to talk over you. Then it is a disturbing baby-talk simper (disturbing because it is issuing from a grown man), when he is trying to ingratiate himself either with you, the presenter or the audience.”

    What a fantastic article. Glad PH noted the insincere ‘mate’ which is often deployed by centrist/O’Brien disciples, either that or addressing people in a faux friendly way by their first name
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,905
    Carnyx said:

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it

    It doesn't have to be this way as there is a case for 20mph round schools, hospitals and congested areas, but blanket no
    The Vale of Glamorgan council have managed it very well.

    ULEZ expansion and the 20mph implementation in Wales, Bristol and soon to be Scotland are a fantastic opportunity for the Conservatives to smash the Labour Party and in future the SNP.

    In both cases the Conservatives have played the politics masterfully. That is not to say the policies are not the right ones morally. Cleaner air, fewer urban child accidental deaths may be Marxism gone mad, but I can live with the hardship. And at 30,000 miles per year, most of which is in Wales, I am affected more than most. It is no real hardship. When the 20mph pilot came to St Brides Major, I was furious. I am used to it now.

    If the Conservatives can make political hay from opposing safety issues, good luck to them.
    It simply does not have to be all or nothing

    And if it such a good idea is Starmer going to introduce it across England or is it another example that he has no control over the Labour London Mayor or the Labour Welsh first Minister?
    And in the Vale of Glamorgan it isn't.

    In my village most has remained at 30 except the central area of the village, by the school and around the village green/ park. It has been progressed here in exactly the way you are demanding.

    If the Conservatives can pull off a magnificent win on the back of this and ULEZ, that is fantastic politics. Good luck to you and them.
    It has not been applied like that here and your description is exactly how a sensible council should act

    Hopefully with the outcry more sense will be applied

    I want to make it clear, I am not opposed to 20mph zones in locations that involve schools, hospitals and congested areas including village centres
    Children don't just run around outside schools. Unless you think they should be banned everywhere except schools and "village centres"? Inclouding the areas they live in?

    Is this the new messaging from Tories Cymru? To go for a few yards outside the Co-op and ignore the housing estates and parks and sports fields?
    Around 8 years there was a fatality on Barry Road in Barry. A close friend of my son was hit by a Skoda taxi. It was entirely the fault of the lad as he was dickiing about with his mates. Fortunately my son was not with them on that evening. Had the car been travelling at 20, the lad would have likely survived. It is a road that was earmarked to stay at 30. Vale council have dropped it down to 20. I suspect on the back of that particular fatality.

    Driving at 20, is a pain in the neck, but it makes perfect sense to me.
  • The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it

    It doesn't have to be this way as there is a case for 20mph round schools, hospitals and congested areas, but blanket no
    It’s not a blanket 20mph though is it? I get that you don’t like the idea, but don’t understand why you just make stuff up.

    We’ve had 20mph universally near me for a while now, took a few weeks to get used to, but ended up preferring it. Few people would go back now, if anything it’s made driving more pleasant. People are slower into pinch points, have more time, and get out of the way. More courteous.
    I do like the idea and if you read my comments I do support the sensible implementation of 20mph zones

    30mph has defaulted to 20mph with some exclusions

    Now Welsh road users have experienced the change there is considerable anger and ironically it is coming from North Wales and Drakeford's heartland
    There is anger, whipped up by the Conservative Party. Penny Mordaunt, the AM for Portsmouth North was banging in about it just last week.

    Don't forget RT was in favour until the Uxbridge by election. 20 mph may well damage Labour in Wales and nationally. A small price if it saves a child's life.

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it

    It doesn't have to be this way as there is a case for 20mph round schools, hospitals and congested areas, but blanket no
    It’s not a blanket 20mph though is it? I get that you don’t like the idea, but don’t understand why you just make stuff up.

    We’ve had 20mph universally near me for a while now, took a few weeks to get used to, but ended up preferring it. Few people would go back now, if anything it’s made driving more pleasant. People are slower into pinch points, have more time, and get out of the way. More courteous.
    I do like the idea and if you read my comments I do support the sensible implementation of 20mph zones

    30mph has defaulted to 20mph with some exclusions

    Now Welsh road users have experienced the change there is considerable anger and ironically it is coming from North Wales and Drakeford's heartland
    There is anger, whipped up by the Conservative Party. Penny Mordaunt, the AM for Portsmouth North was banging in about it just last week.

    Don't forget RT was in favour until the Uxbridge by election. 20 mph may well damage Labour in Wales and nationally. A small price if it saves a child's life.
    Ironic when Portsmouth has had default 20mph for over a decade and takeaways etc still arrive piping hot;

    https://www.roadsafetyknowledgecentre.org.uk/rskc-54/

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,952
    edited September 2023
    Interesting if Labour wants to build HS2 all the way to Leeds.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    BJO's fact of the day

    If Chris Rea lived in Wales he would need to start driving home for Christmas today
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it

    It doesn't have to be this way as there is a case for 20mph round schools, hospitals and congested areas, but blanket no
    It’s not a blanket 20mph though is it? I get that you don’t like the idea, but don’t understand why you just make stuff up.

    We’ve had 20mph universally near me for a while now, took a few weeks to get used to, but ended up preferring it. Few people would go back now, if anything it’s made driving more pleasant. People are slower into pinch points, have more time, and get out of the way. More courteous.
    I do like the idea and if you read my comments I do support the sensible implementation of 20mph zones

    30mph has defaulted to 20mph with some exclusions

    Now Welsh road users have experienced the change there is considerable anger and ironically it is coming from North Wales and Drakeford's heartland
    There is anger, whipped up by the Conservative Party. Penny Mordaunt, the AM for Portsmouth North was banging in about it just last week.

    Don't forget RT was in favour until the Uxbridge by election. 20 mph may well damage Labour in Wales and nationally. A small price if it saves a child's life.

    The Welsh 20 mph petition is now really picking up steam. 109,135.

    I assume because a lot of Welsh drivers have only just made it home.

    Drivers in Wales have experienced the reality of default 20mph and do not like it

    It doesn't have to be this way as there is a case for 20mph round schools, hospitals and congested areas, but blanket no
    It’s not a blanket 20mph though is it? I get that you don’t like the idea, but don’t understand why you just make stuff up.

    We’ve had 20mph universally near me for a while now, took a few weeks to get used to, but ended up preferring it. Few people would go back now, if anything it’s made driving more pleasant. People are slower into pinch points, have more time, and get out of the way. More courteous.
    I do like the idea and if you read my comments I do support the sensible implementation of 20mph zones

    30mph has defaulted to 20mph with some exclusions

    Now Welsh road users have experienced the change there is considerable anger and ironically it is coming from North Wales and Drakeford's heartland
    There is anger, whipped up by the Conservative Party. Penny Mordaunt, the AM for Portsmouth North was banging in about it just last week.

    Don't forget RT was in favour until the Uxbridge by election. 20 mph may well damage Labour in Wales and nationally. A small price if it saves a child's life.
    Ironic when Portsmouth has had default 20mph for over a decade and takeaways etc still arrive piping hot;

    https://www.roadsafetyknowledgecentre.org.uk/rskc-54/

    In the Scottish Borders, it's been the Tories rolling out 20mph limits. It's a popular policy backed up a study they commissioned from Edinburgh Napier uni.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Farooq said:

    The Drake.

    Mallard be thy name
    Mallard is crap is PM?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277

    nico679 said:

    Very much enjoyed The Context on BBC News which was a Brand free zone .

    I’m utterly sick of the ridiculous amount of coverage this is getting.

    Unfortunately the media are on this for the long haul
    I find the coverage baffling, chiefly because Brand is by no stretch a major star. He had some middling fame some years
    ago but not now. Maybe I am missing something, dunno. That is not to say the allegations are not serious, they are, and should be investigated with the full force of the law, but the story is being treated like the Prince Andrew case — despite it being about a minor personality.
    Apparently he has 6 million social media followers
    That’s disturbing. We live in the age of the “ influencer “ who has zero talent but has throngs of fans . Younger people want to be famous for no apparent reason other than the fame . Actually being good at something , a great singer , actor , writer isn’t important . The end point being fame for the sake of fame .
  • Andy_JS said:

    Interesting if Labour wants to build HS2 all the way to Leeds.

    They'll need four terms for that at current rate of progress.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,211

    Watched the 2nd part of State of Chaos.

    It doesn't reflect well on Boris, but it also doesn't reflect well on the Civil Service either. Many of those interviewed came across as quite arrogant, particularly Lord MacDonald, with a "this is how we've always done things attitude"

    I'd be interested to know if they think the system is working better now. Clearly, Rishi is probably more to the Civil Service's liking but the Government is failing to deliver on his pledges.

    I'm of the view that actually the system did actually need a really good shake up ..

    That's supposed to be a metaphor for reform.
    Not an instruction.

  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277

    Andy_JS said:

    Interesting if Labour wants to build HS2 all the way to Leeds.

    They'll need four terms for that at current rate of progress.

    Didn’t Pat McFadden say they would look at the costings closer to the election and wouldn’t commit or did he mis-speak !
  • nico679 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Interesting if Labour wants to build HS2 all the way to Leeds.

    They'll need four terms for that at current rate of progress.

    Didn’t Pat McFadden say they would look at the costings closer to the election and wouldn’t commit or did he mis-speak !
    Seems to be a split as Yorks Post is reporting it:

    https://twitter.com/sgfmann/status/1703869701422510220/photo/1
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,211

    I asked then as I ask now why such a person is given such a powerful place in the national debate.

    The answer, I think, lies in the astonishing power of celebrity over those deprived of any real hope in life.

    In our society, what would once have been a comfortable, secure way of life is incredibly hard to obtain.

    Education has failed, the economy offers little but low pay and high rents.

    Celebrities are like us, yet they are rich. The more like us they are, the more we love them for their success, and the more we listen to them.

    The older voices of education, research, skill, experience are just crabby, Victorian and outdated.

    Unless we can do something pretty radical about it, the future belongs to Russell Brand, or someone very like him.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12533021/PETER-HITCHENS-Trying-argument-Russell-Brand-like-playing-chess-squirrel-given-place-national-debate.html

    A decent piece from the crabby, Victorian and outdated author.
  • Anyway just to add to controversy, Barclay is to impose minimum service levels on the consultants and junior doctors as per the new legislation
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,211
    Farooq said:

    The Drake.

    Mallard be thy name
    Utterly quackers.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277

    Watched the 2nd part of State of Chaos.

    It doesn't reflect well on Boris, but it also doesn't reflect well on the Civil Service either. Many of those interviewed came across as quite arrogant, particularly Lord MacDonald, with a "this is how we've always done things attitude"

    I'd be interested to know if they think the system is working better now. Clearly, Rishi is probably more to the Civil Service's liking but the Government is failing to deliver on his pledges.

    I'm of the view that actually the system did actually need a really good shake up but the tragedy is that Boris and Truss weren't able to manage it due to personal failings (lack of seriousness and organisation from Boris, lack of communication skills from Truss).

    And so now we will go back to insiders who will fail, but fail in an acceptable manner.

    I found MacDonald very annoying but thought Javid did at least come out with looking more principled than most of that cabinet. I did actually feel rather sorry for Hancock who looked like he might burst into tears when talking about Cummings trying to get him sacked.
  • MaxPB said:

    Food input costs must be falling, Nandos have brought back the 20% student discount after almost 5 years. It was hugely popular when I was a student and has been for all students since then so if this wasn't feasible for them from a cost perspective they wouldn't be doing it.

    I do think we're at or near the peak of food costs.

    In the US, McDonalds are doing a 50 cent cheeseburger deal.

    https://people.com/mcdonalds-is-giving-out-50-cent-double-cheeseburgers-7969887
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,952
    edited September 2023
    The civil service should always be totally neutral, and unfortunately on Brexit they failed to be so. (I voted Remain so I don't have an axe to grind).
  • Farooq said:

    The Drake.

    Mallard be thy name
    Mallard is crap is PM?
    Ducking the issue again!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,137

    Anyway just to add to controversy, Barclay is to impose minimum service levels on the consultants and junior doctors as per the new legislation

    He's speaking out his arse. It just means longer strikes, in shifts. He's out in a year anyway.

    Barclay needs to get back to the table.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Andy_JS said:

    The civil service should always be totally neutral, and unfortunately on Brexit they failed to be so. (I voted Remain so I don't have an axe to grind).

    The civil service are clearly fed up with being used as a punchbag . The Tories attacks and constant undermining are hardly good for moral .
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,137
    edited September 2023
    nico679 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The civil service should always be totally neutral, and unfortunately on Brexit they failed to be so. (I voted Remain so I don't have an axe to grind).

    The civil service are clearly fed up with being used as a punchbag . The Tories attacks and constant undermining are hardly good for moral .
    The Tories are just doing the scorched earth policy of retreat. Destroy everything of value, in order to make it non-functional for the victors.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,905
    edited September 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    The civil service should always be totally neutral, and unfortunately on Brexit they failed to be so. (I voted Remain so I don't have an axe to grind).

    That was Mogg's argument on the Kuennsberg vehicle tonight. Mogg's point was something on the lines that as the elected government if we decide to crash the nation and send every citizen into penury the civil service must jolly well accede to our every insane whim.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653

    I asked then as I ask now why such a person is given such a powerful place in the national debate.

    The answer, I think, lies in the astonishing power of celebrity over those deprived of any real hope in life.

    In our society, what would once have been a comfortable, secure way of life is incredibly hard to obtain.

    Education has failed, the economy offers little but low pay and high rents.

    Celebrities are like us, yet they are rich. The more like us they are, the more we love them for their success, and the more we listen to them.

    The older voices of education, research, skill, experience are just crabby, Victorian and outdated.

    Unless we can do something pretty radical about it, the future belongs to Russell Brand, or someone very like him.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12533021/PETER-HITCHENS-Trying-argument-Russell-Brand-like-playing-chess-squirrel-given-place-national-debate.html

    I think you could fit inside a taxi the number of people who thought Russell Brand was "like us". Surely the point of such celebrities is that they are larger-than-life, vessels for wish fulfilment fantasies, like Sean Connery as James Bond. So if anything is the reason for celebrity, nothing is "the" reason, and Hitchens's single transferable miserabilism is uncalled for.
  • nico679 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The civil service should always be totally neutral, and unfortunately on Brexit they failed to be so. (I voted Remain so I don't have an axe to grind).

    The civil service are clearly fed up with being used as a punchbag . The Tories attacks and constant undermining are hardly good for moral .
    Blair always used to say the civil service was hopelessly bureaucratic and not fit for purpose. Perhaps an incoming Starmer government will make radical demands of them.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    The last person in charge to think the civil service would be better moving fast and breaking thingswas the very famous and effective reformer Liz Truss, notably sacking the head civil servant in the Treasury during her thousand hour reich.
  • EPG said:

    The last person in charge to think the civil service would be better moving fast and breaking thingswas the very famous and effective reformer Liz Truss, notably sacking the head civil servant in the Treasury during her thousand hour reich.

    Great pity she didn't manage to sack more.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,038
    Off topic, but of interest to those following Putin's invasion of Ukraine:
    "As Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky prepares to visit Capitol Hill later this week to lobby for additional aid in his country’s war against Russia, a conservative group released a “report card” Monday grading House Republicans on their support for Kyiv.

    The newly released analysis highlights the stark divide within the Republican Party on providing more financial assistance to Ukraine. Of the 222 members, nearly as many failed the report card as received the highest mark. Defending Democracy Together, led by Republican strategist Sarah Longwell and conservative political commentator Bill Kristol, doled out 82 A’s, 43 B’s, eight C’s, 17 D’s and 72 F’s."
    (Links omitted.)
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/09/18/republicans-ukraine-house-congress/
    report card: https://gopforukraine.com/ukraine-report-card/

    The group is trying to put some pressure on erring members by sponsoring ads for Ukraine in their districts. In at least a few districts, this issue might be important, for example, districts with substantial numbers of Ukrainian-Americans, and Polish-Americans.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,952
    edited September 2023
    Watching State Of Chaos, part 2 atm. Astonishing to hear Dominic Cummings saying he was plotting to get rid of Boris Johnson within days of him winning an 80 seat majority that he, Cummings, had just helped to bring about.
  • nico679 said:

    Very much enjoyed The Context on BBC News which was a Brand free zone .

    I’m utterly sick of the ridiculous amount of coverage this is getting.

    Unfortunately the media are on this for the long haul
    I find the coverage baffling, chiefly because Brand is by no stretch a major star. He had some middling fame some years
    ago but not now. Maybe I am missing something, dunno. That is not to say the allegations are not serious, they are, and should be investigated with the full force of the law, but the story is being treated like the Prince Andrew case — despite it being about a minor personality.
    Apparently he has 6 million social media followers
    Tells you a lot more about social media followers than it does about Brand.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,636
    isam said:

    I asked then as I ask now why such a person is given such a powerful place in the national debate.

    The answer, I think, lies in the astonishing power of celebrity over those deprived of any real hope in life.

    In our society, what would once have been a comfortable, secure way of life is incredibly hard to obtain.

    Education has failed, the economy offers little but low pay and high rents.

    Celebrities are like us, yet they are rich. The more like us they are, the more we love them for their success, and the more we listen to them.

    The older voices of education, research, skill, experience are just crabby, Victorian and outdated.

    Unless we can do something pretty radical about it, the future belongs to Russell Brand, or someone very like him.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12533021/PETER-HITCHENS-Trying-argument-Russell-Brand-like-playing-chess-squirrel-given-place-national-debate.html

    “ Brand, in my view, is not stupid, though he is ill-informed and very bad at arguing. He makes much use of his teeth, baring them as he jeers. His voice, if you challenge him, is very strange.

    It is a sort of rising hedge-trimmer whine when he is trying to talk over you. Then it is a disturbing baby-talk simper (disturbing because it is issuing from a grown man), when he is trying to ingratiate himself either with you, the presenter or the audience.”

    What a fantastic article. Glad PH noted the insincere ‘mate’ which is often deployed by centrist/O’Brien disciples, either that or addressing people in a faux friendly way by their first name
    While I'm not a massive Peter Hitchens fan, he correctly skewers Brand there.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,727
    EPG said:

    The last person in charge to think the civil service would be better moving fast and breaking thingswas the very famous and effective reformer Liz Truss, notably sacking the head civil servant in the Treasury during her thousand hour reich.

    This 20 limit should be treated as a case of moving fast and breaking things.

    If in 6 months you can show how many lives are saved or how much time is lost you can make a decision as to whether to continue with it. It should be set up that way from the start with as little expense in signage as possible.

    More experiments, less dogma!


    Personally I'm not convinced a blanket 20 is a good thing but I can't really see the problem with it in most residential areas so lets try it and see...
  • EPG said:

    The last person in charge to think the civil service would be better moving fast and breaking thingswas the very famous and effective reformer Liz Truss, notably sacking the head civil servant in the Treasury during her thousand hour reich.

    This 20 limit should be treated as a case of moving fast and breaking things.

    If in 6 months you can show how many lives are saved or how much time is lost you can make a decision as to whether to continue with it. It should be set up that way from the start with as little expense in signage as possible.

    More experiments, less dogma!


    Personally I'm not convinced a blanket 20 is a good thing but I can't really see the problem with it in most residential areas so lets try it and see...
    I'm not sure you can change back from 20 to 30, at least not near schools where children have become used to stepping into the road without properly looking.
This discussion has been closed.