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The Pension Triple lock abolition looks brave – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,161
edited September 2023 in General
imageThe Pension Triple lock abolition looks brave – politicalbetting.com

Those of us who have been following politics for some time will remember how important a policy the pension triple lock was at GE2010. This ensures that the state pension rises each year in accordance with prices, earnings or 2.5% which ever is the highest.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145
    edited September 2023
    First.

    Yes, it's a weird, cynical decision - pension expenditure has not increased in real terms since 2015.



  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    "MI5 warned Conservatives that MP hopefuls could be spies
    Two potential candidates dropped after the intelligence service said they could be Chinese agents" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mi5-conservatives-tory-candidate-list-china-spies-t6nvzxnd0
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Good morning.

    Well, the country can't really afford pensions, let alone the pension triple lock. It's not sustainable.

    Mike's right though: it would be brave, or foolhardy, to take on the Express and Mail over this.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145
    edited September 2023
    MattW said:

    First.

    Yes, it's a weird, cynical decision - pension expenditure has not increased in real terms since 2015.


    Did not get the source link in.
    Government expenditure on state pension in the United Kingdom from 1948/49 to 2022/23(in million GBP)
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/283917/uk-state-pension-expenditure/

    The proposed decision is an entirely unnecessary intervention to fix a largely fictional alleged problem which requires no changed action at this point, and has everything to do with an attempt to buy the next Election, which imo is all this Govt have left.

    They may be in for a shock if they think people living on, or who will be living on, a State Pension, will not notice, and assume they can bank the votes.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145
    I see the "Don't Close Ticket Offices" petition has passed 100k signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636542
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    MattW said:

    I see the "Don't Close Ticket Offices" petition has passed 100k signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636542

    I’d be interested to know how many of the signatories actually use ticket offices as opposed to just like the idea of them.

    Our local ticket office was closed. It was the re opened after a backlash against it then closed again a few months later as hardly anyone used it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145
    edited September 2023
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    I see the "Don't Close Ticket Offices" petition has passed 100k signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636542

    I’d be interested to know how many of the signatories actually use ticket offices as opposed to just like the idea of them.

    Our local ticket office was closed. It was the re opened after a backlash against it then closed again a few months later as hardly anyone used it.
    The numbers are that ticket offices do about 170 million tickets per year. The Govt have been leading with "12% of tickets", but I think it is more like 17% of businesses.

    But for many disabled people it is the difference as to whether they can use the rail system or not.

    Some types of ticket and other services are not available via the machines, some people cannot use the machines, and it is not uncommon to be stranded for hours at railway stations. The ticket office has to be the help point.

    That is perhaps why disabled peoples' organisations were not even consulted when the proposal was first cooked up in the corridors of power.

    See the commentary coming eg from Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson on this. She had to move house to be near a useable railway station.

    And that's ignoring the basic legal duties to which the railway service is subject around providing equality of access, and often ignores.

    At my local London Mainline Station (around 300k passengers per year) I suspect many disabled people stopped bothering years ago, as to change from Platform 1 to Platform 2 requires a half-hour train journey out and then back to either Nottingham or Chesterfield to use the lifts there to replace the crossing facility that was removed from our station in 1994 and not replaced.

    The Govt will get their nuts roasted on this one.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    MattW said:

    I see the "Don't Close Ticket Offices" petition has passed 100k signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636542

    Sunderland station is literally about to be reopened after its redevelopment and it has a lovely new ticket office.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145
    edited September 2023

    MattW said:

    I see the "Don't Close Ticket Offices" petition has passed 100k signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636542

    Sunderland station is literally about to be reopened after its redevelopment and it has a lovely new ticket office.
    You'd better keep an eye on it; it was announced this summer as on the list targeted for closure, along with Darlington, Durham, Middlesbrough, Redcar, Scarborough etc in the Mark Harper cost-cutting initiative.

    The only ones left are slated to be Newcastle and Hartlepool.

    https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/23636047.listed-every-north-east-train-ticket-office-set-close/
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    I see the "Don't Close Ticket Offices" petition has passed 100k signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636542

    Sunderland station is literally about to be reopened after its redevelopment and it has a lovely new ticket office.
    You'd better keep an eye on it; it was announced this summer as on the list targeted for closure, along with Darlington, Durham, Middlesbrough, Redcar, Scarborough etc in the Mark Harper cost-cutting initiative.

    The only ones left are slated to be Newcastle and Hartlepool.

    https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/23636047.listed-every-north-east-train-ticket-office-set-close/
    I suspect Hartlepool station has already quietly closed - it's opening hours were only 07:00 - 13:30 Monday to Saturday...
  • Taz said:

    MattW said:

    I see the "Don't Close Ticket Offices" petition has passed 100k signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636542

    I’d be interested to know how many of the signatories actually use ticket offices as opposed to just like the idea of them.

    Our local ticket office was closed. It was the re opened after a backlash against it then closed again a few months later as hardly anyone used it.
    I use them each time I travel to buy my ticket. Or to ask about the service and any delays.

    Smartcards and apps don't work for me.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    edited September 2023
    Guardian:
    "...The Swedish government is considering donating Gripen fighter jets to Ukraine to help repel Russian forces, Swedish public radio (SR) reported. The government may formally ask the armed forces as early as Thursday to officially consider the issue, according to the report.."
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Andy_JS said:

    "MI5 warned Conservatives that MP hopefuls could be spies
    Two potential candidates dropped after the intelligence service said they could be Chinese agents" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mi5-conservatives-tory-candidate-list-china-spies-t6nvzxnd0

    By the look of things the Tories could have 100 Chinese spy candidates and it won’t matter as they are being wiped out so MI5 should be focussing on Labour candidates.

    On a more serious note - this made me wonder if there were any East Asian origin MPs - I can’t think of any off the top of my head. There seems to be a healthy number of Black and South Asian MPs but I can’t think of any of Chinese origin or Hong Kong or similar which surprises me.
  • https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/sep/13/uk-fails-ban-pesticides-outlawed-use-in-eu

    In unsurprising Brexit news, the government is taking advantage of our Brexit freedoms to poison our water supply, kill the pollinators that we rely on and damage human health in pursuit of agribusiness profits.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145
    boulay said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "MI5 warned Conservatives that MP hopefuls could be spies
    Two potential candidates dropped after the intelligence service said they could be Chinese agents" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mi5-conservatives-tory-candidate-list-china-spies-t6nvzxnd0

    By the look of things the Tories could have 100 Chinese spy candidates and it won’t matter as they are being wiped out so MI5 should be focussing on Labour candidates.

    On a more serious note - this made me wonder if there were any East Asian origin MPs - I can’t think of any off the top of my head. There seems to be a healthy number of Black and South Asian MPs but I can’t think of any of Chinese origin or Hong Kong or similar which surprises me.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Mak_(politician)
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    I see the "Don't Close Ticket Offices" petition has passed 100k signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636542

    I’d be interested to know how many of the signatories actually use ticket offices as opposed to just like the idea of them.

    Our local ticket office was closed. It was the re opened after a backlash against it then closed again a few months later as hardly anyone used it.
    I know lots of people who use ticket offices

    And I doubt the veracity of your anecdote, by which I mean that I suspect multiple factors at play which you either don't know or haven't reported.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051

    boulay said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "MI5 warned Conservatives that MP hopefuls could be spies
    Two potential candidates dropped after the intelligence service said they could be Chinese agents" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mi5-conservatives-tory-candidate-list-china-spies-t6nvzxnd0

    By the look of things the Tories could have 100 Chinese spy candidates and it won’t matter as they are being wiped out so MI5 should be focussing on Labour candidates.

    On a more serious note - this made me wonder if there were any East Asian origin MPs - I can’t think of any off the top of my head. There seems to be a healthy number of Black and South Asian MPs but I can’t think of any of Chinese origin or Hong Kong or similar which surprises me.
    Alan Mak (Con) was the first, I think, and there’s another Tory. Anna Lo (All) was the first person of Chinese heritage elected to a legislative body in the UK when she was elected to the Northern Irish Assembly. She rose to be deputy leader of the Alliance party.
    I misremembered. The second MP of Chinese heritage is Sarah Owen (Lab).

  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    edited September 2023
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    I see the "Don't Close Ticket Offices" petition has passed 100k signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636542

    I’d be interested to know how many of the signatories actually use ticket offices as opposed to just like the idea of them.

    Our local ticket office was closed. It was the re opened after a backlash against it then closed again a few months later as hardly anyone used it.
    I'm trying to remember exactly where you live because I think that may have been a privately ran ticket office...

    Edit yep Chester-le-track went into administration...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    S Korea forestation - much planted since the war.


  • What's the size and timescale of the Triple Lock being a problem? It clearly can't carry on forever, because compound growth never can. (See the convo here about tidal power... Sunday night?) But we're presumably some way off that. There's also the immediate "must slice all spending because we need the savings to cut taxes" thing, but that's also potentially the wrong question.

    As for the suggestion in the press, it has Weasel written all over it. Either the one-off bonuses in the public sector count towards pay, or they don't. Though I do wonder what happens to morale and retention when the one-off bump is experienced as one-off and public sector staff go back to their normal, lower rate.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    I see the "Don't Close Ticket Offices" petition has passed 100k signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636542

    I’d be interested to know how many of the signatories actually use ticket offices as opposed to just like the idea of them.

    Our local ticket office was closed. It was the re opened after a backlash against it then closed again a few months later as hardly anyone used it.
    The only time I would ever NOT use a ticket office, and use a machine instead, is when there is a large queue already at the ticket office.
  • Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    I see the "Don't Close Ticket Offices" petition has passed 100k signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636542

    I’d be interested to know how many of the signatories actually use ticket offices as opposed to just like the idea of them.

    Our local ticket office was closed. It was the re opened after a backlash against it then closed again a few months later as hardly anyone used it.
    The only time I would ever NOT use a ticket office, and use a machine instead, is when there is a large queue already at the ticket office.
    It works well in London, but only because the ticketing system is simple enough that even a computer can process it.

    That doesn't map on the national network, and I'm not sure it could.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    I see the "Don't Close Ticket Offices" petition has passed 100k signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636542

    I’d be interested to know how many of the signatories actually use ticket offices as opposed to just like the idea of them.

    Our local ticket office was closed. It was the re opened after a backlash against it then closed again a few months later as hardly anyone used it.
    The numbers are that ticket offices do about 170 million tickets per year. The Govt have been leading with "12% of tickets", but I think it is more like 17% of businesses.

    But for many disabled people it is the difference as to whether they can use the rail system or not.

    Some types of ticket and other services are not available via the machines, some people cannot use the machines, and it is not uncommon to be stranded for hours at railway stations. The ticket office has to be the help point.

    That is perhaps why disabled peoples' organisations were not even consulted when the proposal was first cooked up in the corridors of power.

    See the commentary coming eg from Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson on this. She had to move house to be near a useable railway station.

    And that's ignoring the basic legal duties to which the railway service is subject around providing equality of access, and often ignores.

    At my local London Mainline Station (around 300k passengers per year) I suspect many disabled people stopped bothering years ago, as to change from Platform 1 to Platform 2 requires a half-hour train journey out and then back to either Nottingham or Chesterfield to use the lifts there to replace the crossing facility that was removed from our station in 1994 and not replaced.

    The Govt will get their nuts roasted on this one.
    That's as well as maybe, but not really what I asked. I am agnostic on the matter of ticket offices.
  • Just received an email ad inviting me to apply for an internship with MI5, MI6 & GCHQ.

    Is it genuine, or do they think I am a Chinese spy and they are trying to smoke me out?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    The Bastion of the middle class, The Guardian, seems to think it knows what the working class (a group its columnists openly hold in contempt) want and, funnily enough it seems to be what the Guardians columnists want.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/a-centrist-labour-is-back-but-this-time-it-cannot-take-the-working-class-for-granted/ar-AA1gCcnF?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=b2fb03b2b59a42c5bbfe516562676bd7&ei=13
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    edited September 2023
    Foxy said:

    "97% of the US Military (~1.3 million) was fully vaccinated by 2022.

    The hospitalization rate in 2021 was the 3rd lowest rate of the past decade.

    The hospitalization rate in 2022 was the lowest rate of the past decade.

    The majority of hospitalizations were related to mental health disorders or pregnancy.

    COVID-19 accounted for 1.5% of hospitalizations in 2021 & dropped 70% to under .5% in 2022.

    Cancer (neoplasm) hospitalizations in 2020 & 2021 were identical & went down in 2022.

    There was no measurable rise in circulatory system, immune disorder or nervous system hospitalizations."

    https://twitter.com/thereal_truther/status/1701631888459550970?t=6axTi1ReZyvFSE9k9x5w-A&s=19

    Pah. Facts don't matter; the vaccines are *evil*. I know because this nice man on t'Internet told me so, and he seemed much more intelligent than those white-coated 'professors' who use long words I cannot understand. I mean, how can they be telling the truth if they cannot even speak straight?

    Incidentally, the anniversary of 9/11 theother day was marked with a load of videos about it on YouTube. Sadly, many of these, and the comments below them, were from conspiracy theorists.

    Sick scum.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    I see the "Don't Close Ticket Offices" petition has passed 100k signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636542

    I’d be interested to know how many of the signatories actually use ticket offices as opposed to just like the idea of them.

    Our local ticket office was closed. It was the re opened after a backlash against it then closed again a few months later as hardly anyone used it.
    The numbers are that ticket offices do about 170 million tickets per year. The Govt have been leading with "12% of tickets", but I think it is more like 17% of businesses.

    But for many disabled people it is the difference as to whether they can use the rail system or not.

    Some types of ticket and other services are not available via the machines, some people cannot use the machines, and it is not uncommon to be stranded for hours at railway stations. The ticket office has to be the help point.

    That is perhaps why disabled peoples' organisations were not even consulted when the proposal was first cooked up in the corridors of power.

    See the commentary coming eg from Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson on this. She had to move house to be near a useable railway station.

    And that's ignoring the basic legal duties to which the railway service is subject around providing equality of access, and often ignores.

    At my local London Mainline Station (around 300k passengers per year) I suspect many disabled people stopped bothering years ago, as to change from Platform 1 to Platform 2 requires a half-hour train journey out and then back to either Nottingham or Chesterfield to use the lifts there to replace the crossing facility that was removed from our station in 1994 and not replaced.

    The Govt will get their nuts roasted on this one.
    That's as well as maybe, but not really what I asked. I am agnostic on the matter of ticket offices.
    I'm putting forward the case why you should not be agnostic; it's about equality and whether you believe in it or not.

    One bad driver not stopping at a pedestrian crossing, and you are the one in the wheelchair.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    Regarding the ticket office petition - I've just received this email from parliament

    The Petitions Committee (the group of MPs who oversee the petitions system) have considered the Government’s response to this petition. They felt that the response did not directly address the request of petition and have therefore written back to the Government to ask them to provide a revised response.

    So even Parliamentary committees (and one with 60% tory membership) is fed up with the excuses / lies that this Government comes up with in their attempt to push things through...

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    I see the "Don't Close Ticket Offices" petition has passed 100k signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636542

    I’d be interested to know how many of the signatories actually use ticket offices as opposed to just like the idea of them.

    Our local ticket office was closed. It was the re opened after a backlash against it then closed again a few months later as hardly anyone used it.
    The numbers are that ticket offices do about 170 million tickets per year. The Govt have been leading with "12% of tickets", but I think it is more like 17% of businesses.

    But for many disabled people it is the difference as to whether they can use the rail system or not.

    Some types of ticket and other services are not available via the machines, some people cannot use the machines, and it is not uncommon to be stranded for hours at railway stations. The ticket office has to be the help point.

    That is perhaps why disabled peoples' organisations were not even consulted when the proposal was first cooked up in the corridors of power.

    See the commentary coming eg from Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson on this. She had to move house to be near a useable railway station.

    And that's ignoring the basic legal duties to which the railway service is subject around providing equality of access, and often ignores.

    At my local London Mainline Station (around 300k passengers per year) I suspect many disabled people stopped bothering years ago, as to change from Platform 1 to Platform 2 requires a half-hour train journey out and then back to either Nottingham or Chesterfield to use the lifts there to replace the crossing facility that was removed from our station in 1994 and not replaced.

    The Govt will get their nuts roasted on this one.
    That's as well as maybe, but not really what I asked. I am agnostic on the matter of ticket offices.
    I'm putting forward the case why you should not be agnostic; it's about equality and whether you believe in it or not.

    One bad driver not stopping at a pedestrian crossing, and you are the one in the wheelchair.
    Morning All!
    Greater Anglia is currently advertising its app for ticket purchases. However since it also uses a thuggish Red Hare I’ve taken against Greater Anglia.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    .
    Nigelb said:

    S Korea forestation - much planted since the war.


    100s of km of this stuff.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    I see Angela Rayner is proposing to outlaw zero hours contracts.
    I seem to recall that for some, ZHCs are actually rather useful. I’m sure they can be open to abuse, but is banning them the right way ahead?
  • What's the size and timescale of the Triple Lock being a problem? It clearly can't carry on forever, because compound growth never can. (See the convo here about tidal power... Sunday night?) But we're presumably some way off that. There's also the immediate "must slice all spending because we need the savings to cut taxes" thing, but that's also potentially the wrong question.

    As for the suggestion in the press, it has Weasel written all over it. Either the one-off bonuses in the public sector count towards pay, or they don't. Though I do wonder what happens to morale and retention when the one-off bump is experienced as one-off and public sector staff go back to their normal, lower rate.

    One off bonuses should of course not count as a permanent pay settlement for permanent uplifts, as the Triple Lock does, that's patently absurd.

    If a permanent uplift happens next year, then that should count, but that hasn't happened.
  • I see Angela Rayner is proposing to outlaw zero hours contracts.
    I seem to recall that for some, ZHCs are actually rather useful. I’m sure they can be open to abuse, but is banning them the right way ahead?

    Banning things they don't like is very Labour. There are more subtle ways to remove the harm and keep the good, but some like to divide everything starkly in to good or evil.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    edited September 2023
    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    I see the "Don't Close Ticket Offices" petition has passed 100k signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636542

    I’d be interested to know how many of the signatories actually use ticket offices as opposed to just like the idea of them.

    Our local ticket office was closed. It was the re opened after a backlash against it then closed again a few months later as hardly anyone used it.
    The numbers are that ticket offices do about 170 million tickets per year. The Govt have been leading with "12% of tickets", but I think it is more like 17% of businesses.

    But for many disabled people it is the difference as to whether they can use the rail system or not.

    Some types of ticket and other services are not available via the machines, some people cannot use the machines, and it is not uncommon to be stranded for hours at railway stations. The ticket office has to be the help point.

    That is perhaps why disabled peoples' organisations were not even consulted when the proposal was first cooked up in the corridors of power.

    See the commentary coming eg from Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson on this. She had to move house to be near a useable railway station.

    And that's ignoring the basic legal duties to which the railway service is subject around providing equality of access, and often ignores.

    At my local London Mainline Station (around 300k passengers per year) I suspect many disabled people stopped bothering years ago, as to change from Platform 1 to Platform 2 requires a half-hour train journey out and then back to either Nottingham or Chesterfield to use the lifts there to replace the crossing facility that was removed from our station in 1994 and not replaced.

    The Govt will get their nuts roasted on this one.
    That's as well as maybe, but not really what I asked. I am agnostic on the matter of ticket offices.
    I'm putting forward the case why you should not be agnostic; it's about equality and whether you believe in it or not.

    One bad driver not stopping at a pedestrian crossing, and you are the one in the wheelchair.
    Thanks for the lecture, I'll get back to you.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376

    I see Angela Rayner is proposing to outlaw zero hours contracts.
    I seem to recall that for some, ZHCs are actually rather useful. I’m sure they can be open to abuse, but is banning them the right way ahead?

    No, reforming them is. Some people like zero hours contracts.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,076
    Other than 'I think state pensions are too low and should be a priority for a fiscally constrained government', which is an interesting view, I can't see any possible justification of the triple lock except to buy the votes of retirees.

    An inflation lock - tying state pension increases to CPI - is fine. But saying pensioners get better pay increases than workers when CPI beats salary increases, but should get the same when the other way round, is simply not excusable (other than for the two reasons offered above).

    Even looking at the specifics of what the government is looking at, clearly stripping out one-off public sector bonuses is a better reflection of salary growth than including it.

    The Tories continuing to consider pensioners as the only relevant voting block is part of the reason they're in the mess they are. Hopefully they start to do the right thing and realise there are much more productive ways to spend money.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    Apple monitor been busy

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    Smart51 said:

    I see Angela Rayner is proposing to outlaw zero hours contracts.
    I seem to recall that for some, ZHCs are actually rather useful. I’m sure they can be open to abuse, but is banning them the right way ahead?

    Banning things they don't like is very Labour. There are more subtle ways to remove the harm and keep the good, but some like to divide everything starkly in to good or evil.
    I had a ZHC at one time and it worked very well. I was quite happy. Although my grandson had one which was very demanding and unfair.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Tubbs, yeah, I forget the stats but while some hate ZHCs others find them very useful.

    A straight up ban is daft.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    Smart51 said:

    I see Angela Rayner is proposing to outlaw zero hours contracts.
    I seem to recall that for some, ZHCs are actually rather useful. I’m sure they can be open to abuse, but is banning them the right way ahead?

    Banning things they don't like is very Labour. There are more subtle ways to remove the harm and keep the good, but some like to divide everything starkly in to good or evil.
    I see Tories banned phones with shit chargers
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,206

    I see Angela Rayner is proposing to outlaw zero hours contracts.
    I seem to recall that for some, ZHCs are actually rather useful. I’m sure they can be open to abuse, but is banning them the right way ahead?

    My sister is on one. Suits her brilliantly, she's got a really good working relationship with her employer, between them they agree on an amount of work which she can manage around childcare (she's got two young kids) and her husband's hours (he delivers for a supermarket, and has a rather random shift pattern), and her other part-time job (as a civil servant!). Her comment is that almost all the hatred against zero hours contracts comes from people not actually on them, and the unions hate them mostly as a perceived threat to their collective bargaining powers. The unions also don't like any form of contract which allows you to manage out poor or underperforming staff, who obviously are the ones most likely to do worst from zero hours contracts.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    One for TSE to adjudicate.

    So What if a Candidate Livestreamed Sex Acts with Her Husband?
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/09/12/candidate-livestreamed-sex-acts-00115395
  • Smart51 said:

    I see Angela Rayner is proposing to outlaw zero hours contracts.
    I seem to recall that for some, ZHCs are actually rather useful. I’m sure they can be open to abuse, but is banning them the right way ahead?

    Banning things they don't like is very Labour. There are more subtle ways to remove the harm and keep the good, but some like to divide everything starkly in to good or evil.
    I had a ZHC at one time and it worked very well. I was quite happy. Although my grandson had one which was very demanding and unfair.
    When was that? And how?

    The most unfair element of ZHC used to be banning people from working other jobs, but that has already been outlawed a few years ago.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    I see the "Don't Close Ticket Offices" petition has passed 100k signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636542

    I’d be interested to know how many of the signatories actually use ticket offices as opposed to just like the idea of them.

    Our local ticket office was closed. It was the re opened after a backlash against it then closed again a few months later as hardly anyone used it.
    Like many a 'save the local pub' campaign.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    S Korea forestation - much planted since the war.


    100s of km of this stuff.

    Significantly greater population density than the UK, but they seem to have much more green space.
    Lots of high rise residential in the cities, of course.
    Arguably a pretty good trade off.
  • On topic, you only have to look at the hyperventilating comments beneath the line in The Mail, Express, Times or Telegraph to see that most pensioners think they're absolutely entitled to the triple lock and it's too small, if anything.

    Sunak's job, politically, is to save as many Tory seats as possible so they at least have a chance to rebuild in opposition. Since pensioners are the only group that's still vaguely inclined to vote Tory he's trapped and has to keep it because otherwise he might get no votes at all.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145

    What's the size and timescale of the Triple Lock being a problem? It clearly can't carry on forever, because compound growth never can. (See the convo here about tidal power... Sunday night?) But we're presumably some way off that. There's also the immediate "must slice all spending because we need the savings to cut taxes" thing, but that's also potentially the wrong question.

    As for the suggestion in the press, it has Weasel written all over it. Either the one-off bonuses in the public sector count towards pay, or they don't. Though I do wonder what happens to morale and retention when the one-off bump is experienced as one-off and public sector staff go back to their normal, lower rate.

    One off bonuses should of course not count as a permanent pay settlement for permanent uplifts, as the Triple Lock does, that's patently absurd.

    If a permanent uplift happens next year, then that should count, but that hasn't happened.
    That's defensible I think.

    The comparisons by Hague are not. The predicted possible pressure is 2050, or 2070 by IFC elsewhere, and Hague (as one would expect) emplasises the number which is 10x bigger. From the piece:

    Its analysis found that the triple lock could potentially increase spending by anywhere between a further £5 billion and £45 billion per year, in today’s terms, by 2050.

    I'd say Hague is part of the attempt to create rhetorical space for a giveaway budget for the Election.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145

    I see Angela Rayner is proposing to outlaw zero hours contracts.
    I seem to recall that for some, ZHCs are actually rather useful. I’m sure they can be open to abuse, but is banning them the right way ahead?

    No - that's Rayner's Trade Union sponsors talking imo.

    Every researched number I have ever seen says most workers like them.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424

    Smart51 said:

    I see Angela Rayner is proposing to outlaw zero hours contracts.
    I seem to recall that for some, ZHCs are actually rather useful. I’m sure they can be open to abuse, but is banning them the right way ahead?

    Banning things they don't like is very Labour. There are more subtle ways to remove the harm and keep the good, but some like to divide everything starkly in to good or evil.
    I had a ZHC at one time and it worked very well. I was quite happy. Although my grandson had one which was very demanding and unfair.
    When was that? And how?

    The most unfair element of ZHC used to be banning people from working other jobs, but that has already been outlawed a few years ago.
    I worked for a firm certifying exports to various African and Asian companies. I’d get a packet of inspection documents, to be completed by whenever, usually about a week ahead. I’d do the inspections at times convenient to me, come home, complete the documentation….. although of course a lot was done on site ….. tot up the time spent and post off the final report. This was before the internet was at the level it is today.
    Grandson worked for a seafront pleasure park; he was told he would be called when needed and had an hour to get to work. Turning down 3 shifts meant the sack.
  • The "Pension Problem" is not a new one!
    Sixty years ago the Lecturer my Higher National Diploma course told us that we 18 year old's had a Pension Problem. Being 18, we all laughed!
    He went on to explain that the first part of the problem was that current pensioners were not being paid out of a fund that they had built up over their working lives but by the contributions being made by today's workers, which would soon include us, at which point we stopped laughing.
    The second part of the problem was that as the birth rate dropped the number of contributors would fall and that as life expectancy rose the number of pensioners would rise, with the obvious results.
    His answer was that the pension age for men and women should be equalised and that they should be raised by a minimum of one year every ten years.
    Doing so would at least have helped to solve the funding problem.
    PS As it turned out, I did not retire until I was 75.
  • On topic, hurrah but Rishi needs to go further.

    Start applying NI on pensioner salaries.
  • Nigelb said:

    One for TSE to adjudicate.

    So What if a Candidate Livestreamed Sex Acts with Her Husband?
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/09/12/candidate-livestreamed-sex-acts-00115395

    I shall have to investigate this story further before I arrive at a conclusion.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,076
    theProle said:

    I see Angela Rayner is proposing to outlaw zero hours contracts.
    I seem to recall that for some, ZHCs are actually rather useful. I’m sure they can be open to abuse, but is banning them the right way ahead?

    My sister is on one. Suits her brilliantly, she's got a really good working relationship with her employer, between them they agree on an amount of work which she can manage around childcare (she's got two young kids) and her husband's hours (he delivers for a supermarket, and has a rather random shift pattern), and her other part-time job (as a civil servant!). Her comment is that almost all the hatred against zero hours contracts comes from people not actually on them, and the unions hate them mostly as a perceived threat to their collective bargaining powers. The unions also don't like any form of contract which allows you to manage out poor or underperforming staff, who obviously are the ones most likely to do worst from zero hours contracts.
    I had a 4-hour contract when working at a cinema as a student, which worked much like a zero hours one (probably averaged closer to 20 hours).

    It suited me as I could increase or reduce shifts as needed.

    The impact of 'banning' them very much depends with what they are replaced with. If it is just for headlines and flexible contracts with some non-zero minimum are retained, then I fail to get excited either way. If only fixed hour contracts remain then we will reduce labour market mobility and likely end up with higher unemployment.

    I expect it's more like the former and this change will have little real world impact.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145
    edited September 2023
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    I see the "Don't Close Ticket Offices" petition has passed 100k signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636542

    I’d be interested to know how many of the signatories actually use ticket offices as opposed to just like the idea of them.

    Our local ticket office was closed. It was the re opened after a backlash against it then closed again a few months later as hardly anyone used it.
    The numbers are that ticket offices do about 170 million tickets per year. The Govt have been leading with "12% of tickets", but I think it is more like 17% of businesses.

    But for many disabled people it is the difference as to whether they can use the rail system or not.

    Some types of ticket and other services are not available via the machines, some people cannot use the machines, and it is not uncommon to be stranded for hours at railway stations. The ticket office has to be the help point.

    That is perhaps why disabled peoples' organisations were not even consulted when the proposal was first cooked up in the corridors of power.

    See the commentary coming eg from Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson on this. She had to move house to be near a useable railway station.

    And that's ignoring the basic legal duties to which the railway service is subject around providing equality of access, and often ignores.

    At my local London Mainline Station (around 300k passengers per year) I suspect many disabled people stopped bothering years ago, as to change from Platform 1 to Platform 2 requires a half-hour train journey out and then back to either Nottingham or Chesterfield to use the lifts there to replace the crossing facility that was removed from our station in 1994 and not replaced.

    The Govt will get their nuts roasted on this one.
    That's as well as maybe, but not really what I asked. I am agnostic on the matter of ticket offices.
    I'm putting forward the case why you should not be agnostic; it's about equality and whether you believe in it or not.

    One bad driver not stopping at a pedestrian crossing, and you are the one in the wheelchair.
    Thanks for the lecture, I'll get back to you.
    If you get your survey of the people who signed the petition, please do - I'd be interested.

    If you want some actual lived experience of the impact of this, try Dame Tanni Grey's twitter feed where she's been retweeting some experiences as they happen. The rail service companies have had a legal obligation to provide an equal service since iirc the DDA in 1995.

    If a suitable alternative was provided first then it would be possible, but it's just Ministers tripping over their own feet to save money, whilst ignoring their legal responsibilities.

    https://twitter.com/Tanni_GT

    Top blind footballer feared she’d fall in front of speeding train after being left stranded at platform
    @SamanthaGough19
    ⁩ “No-one there to help despite booking assistance”
    “No idea how close I was to platform edge as there’s no tactile paving”

    (aside - these are to do with the complications of booking assistance).


    @Tanni_GT·Sep 11
    Train cancelled this morning. Other company won’t accept tickets. So people on platform are having to buy new tickets. Luckily the ticket office were able to explain


    @Tanni_GT
    Sep 11
    So my booked assistance wasn’t cancelled …. So now I don’t have assistance so have to hope that a different station can sort me out and no other wheelchair user is travelling




  • The irony of all this is that had the state pension continued to be uprated in line with the system that the Conservatives inherited in 2010, at this point the current state pension would be lower than it is now.

    Up to now, the most significant change in 2010 was the decision to switch from using RPI to using CPI to calculate price inflation, CPI being on average about 1% less than it is now. There have been several years since where the pension increase has been limited to the 2.5% floor, whereas if RPI had still been in use the increase would have been above that. By contrast, the change to bring average earnings into the calculation would hardly have mattered had RPI still been in use, because the last 13 years have seen wage increases stagnant or falling even behind CPI and very rarely exceeding both RPI and 2.5%.

    On the other hand, while the state pension is no higher than it would have been, there have been plenty of other changes which have adversely the incomes of the elderly:
    eg.
    - the continued raising of the state pension age, despite the rise in life expectancy flatlining
    - the particularly harsh treatment of WASPI women
    - changes that require longer contribution periods so that fewer new retiree s are able to access the full pension
    - freezing of many benefits specific to older people such as pension credits, which amounted to real term cuts.

    On the back of all this, with the huge cut in local authority funding, the public services that matter most to the elderly have been drastically cut, with social care a shadow of its former self. And the NHS is starting to go in the same direction.

    The reasons that fewer pensioners nowadays find themselves in poverty is due to the growth and generosity of occupational pensions now being paid out.
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 993

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    I see the "Don't Close Ticket Offices" petition has passed 100k signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636542

    I’d be interested to know how many of the signatories actually use ticket offices as opposed to just like the idea of them.

    Our local ticket office was closed. It was the re opened after a backlash against it then closed again a few months later as hardly anyone used it.
    The only time I would ever NOT use a ticket office, and use a machine instead, is when there is a large queue already at the ticket office.
    It works well in London, but only because the ticketing system is simple enough that even a computer can process it.

    That doesn't map on the national network, and I'm not sure it could.
    Booked a ticket from Market Harborough to Nottingham (to watch Leicestershire in Cricket final) Saturday 09.32 Standard Class £23.90; 1st Class £16.20
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    Taz said:

    I see Angela Rayner is proposing to outlaw zero hours contracts.
    I seem to recall that for some, ZHCs are actually rather useful. I’m sure they can be open to abuse, but is banning them the right way ahead?

    No, reforming them is. Some people like zero hours contracts.
    It was a speech, not a detailed policy proposal. “Ban” is something you say in a speech; a detailed policy proposal will have exceptions.

    I looked at the speech and she said: “We will not only ban zero-hour contracts but ensure all contracts come with minimum hours and reflect normal working life, requiring notice of shift changes and pay when they are cancelled at the last minute.” That gives a bit more detail.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    edited September 2023
    Nigelb said:

    One for TSE to adjudicate.

    So What if a Candidate Livestreamed Sex Acts with Her Husband?
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/09/12/candidate-livestreamed-sex-acts-00115395

    Detailed research by aforesaid adjudicator methinks
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    edited September 2023
    MattW said:

    I see Angela Rayner is proposing to outlaw zero hours contracts.
    I seem to recall that for some, ZHCs are actually rather useful. I’m sure they can be open to abuse, but is banning them the right way ahead?

    No - that's Rayner's Trade Union sponsors talking imo.

    Every researched number I have ever seen says most workers like them.
    This TUC polling says more workers on them don’t like them: https://www.tuc.org.uk/news/two-thirds-zero-hours-workers-want-jobs-guaranteed-hours-tuc-polling-reveals The polling methodology is given and looks solid.

    Edit: You were presumably referring to this polling, https://fullfact.org/economy/how-many-people-zero-hours-contracts-want-more-hours/ , that says most people on ZHCs don’t want more hours, which isn’t the same as asking them whether they’re happy with the contract they’re on. I might not want more hours, but still be unhappy with the lack of a minimum number of hours specified.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145
    edited September 2023
    Icarus said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    I see the "Don't Close Ticket Offices" petition has passed 100k signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636542

    I’d be interested to know how many of the signatories actually use ticket offices as opposed to just like the idea of them.

    Our local ticket office was closed. It was the re opened after a backlash against it then closed again a few months later as hardly anyone used it.
    The only time I would ever NOT use a ticket office, and use a machine instead, is when there is a large queue already at the ticket office.
    It works well in London, but only because the ticketing system is simple enough that even a computer can process it.

    That doesn't map on the national network, and I'm not sure it could.
    Booked a ticket from Market Harborough to Nottingham (to watch Leicestershire in Cricket final) Saturday 09.32 Standard Class £23.90; 1st Class £16.20
    That all, however, assumes that the computer is a) Available, b) Working , c) Useable and D) Can supply the correct ticket. If it can't, it's useless to that customer.

    Tanni Grey-Thompson
    @Tanni_GT Sep 9
    This is what I see at a TVM. I can’t tell when to put my card details in

    https://twitter.com/Tanni_GT/status/1700467673539244408

    (TVM: Ticket Vending Machine)

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348

    On topic, you only have to look at the hyperventilating comments beneath the line in The Mail, Express, Times or Telegraph to see that most pensioners think they're absolutely entitled to the triple lock and it's too small, if anything.

    Sunak's job, politically, is to save as many Tory seats as possible so they at least have a chance to rebuild in opposition. Since pensioners are the only group that's still vaguely inclined to vote Tory he's trapped and has to keep it because otherwise he might get no votes at all.

    Most people who receive free stuff think that it's (a) an entitlement and (b) not enough.
  • https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/13/adults-are-terrified-of-talking-to-us-about-it-10-things-i-learned-from-children-about-pornography

    As a father of three children aged 11 to 17 this is quite a revealing/disturbing read. I have personally never seen any online pornography so I suspect I am quite naive on the subject.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    edited September 2023

    MattW said:

    I see Angela Rayner is proposing to outlaw zero hours contracts.
    I seem to recall that for some, ZHCs are actually rather useful. I’m sure they can be open to abuse, but is banning them the right way ahead?

    No - that's Rayner's Trade Union sponsors talking imo.

    Every researched number I have ever seen says most workers like them.
    This TUC polling says more workers on them don’t like them: https://www.tuc.org.uk/news/two-thirds-zero-hours-workers-want-jobs-guaranteed-hours-tuc-polling-reveals The polling methodology is given and looks solid.

    Edit: You were presumably referring to this polling, https://fullfact.org/economy/how-many-people-zero-hours-contracts-want-more-hours/ , that says most people on ZHCs don’t want more hours, which isn’t the same as asking them whether they’re happy with the contract they’re on. I might not want more hours, but still be unhappy with the lack of a minimum number of hours specified.
    Too many right-wingers here and elsewhere are either ignorant of what the TUs fought against, or wan t to go back to it to terrorise the workers (and make things cheaper for their donors). The so-called good old days of having to wait around till the last minute and find you weren't employed at [edit] all that day and could starve for all the e3mployer cared: such as London dockers having to wait outside the office.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    MattW said:

    Icarus said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    I see the "Don't Close Ticket Offices" petition has passed 100k signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636542

    I’d be interested to know how many of the signatories actually use ticket offices as opposed to just like the idea of them.

    Our local ticket office was closed. It was the re opened after a backlash against it then closed again a few months later as hardly anyone used it.
    The only time I would ever NOT use a ticket office, and use a machine instead, is when there is a large queue already at the ticket office.
    It works well in London, but only because the ticketing system is simple enough that even a computer can process it.

    That doesn't map on the national network, and I'm not sure it could.
    Booked a ticket from Market Harborough to Nottingham (to watch Leicestershire in Cricket final) Saturday 09.32 Standard Class £23.90; 1st Class £16.20
    That all, however, assumes that the computer is a) Available, b) Working , c) Useable and D) Can supply the correct ticket. If it can't, it's useless to that customer.

    Tanni Grey-Thompson
    @Tanni_GT Sep 9
    This is what I see at a TVM. I can’t tell when to put my card details in

    https://twitter.com/Tanni_GT/status/1700467673539244408

    (TVM: Ticket Vending Machine)

    Also, online it depnds so much which portal you use ...
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    The government wastes so much money on pointless or even actively harmful shit that they might as well keep el triple cerradura. Giving money to older people to increase their comfort and dignity doesn't feel like the worst use of public funds. Means testing it is bollocks as that just creates a barrier to getting it and means more inevitably expensive and inefficient bureaucracy.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,073
    Nigelb said:

    Guardian:
    "...The Swedish government is considering donating Gripen fighter jets to Ukraine to help repel Russian forces, Swedish public radio (SR) reported. The government may formally ask the armed forces as early as Thursday to officially consider the issue, according to the report.."

    It's a lovely little plane. Perfectly adequate. Nobody wants to buy it because they are all lusting after the F35. So they are literally giving it away.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    I see the "Don't Close Ticket Offices" petition has passed 100k signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636542

    I’d be interested to know how many of the signatories actually use ticket offices as opposed to just like the idea of them.

    Our local ticket office was closed. It was the re opened after a backlash against it then closed again a few months later as hardly anyone used it.
    The only time I would ever NOT use a ticket office, and use a machine instead, is when there is a large queue already at the ticket office.
    It works well in London, but only because the ticketing system is simple enough that even a computer can process it.

    That doesn't map on the national network, and I'm not sure it could.
    A big issue is maximum price. The “wrong” mainline ticket is 3 figures. The “wrong” TfL ticket is a few pounds.
  • The irony of all this is that had the state pension continued to be uprated in line with the system that the Conservatives inherited in 2010, at this point the current state pension would be lower than it is now.

    Up to now, the most significant change in 2010 was the decision to switch from using RPI to using CPI to calculate price inflation, CPI being on average about 1% less than it is now. There have been several years since where the pension increase has been limited to the 2.5% floor, whereas if RPI had still been in use the increase would have been above that. By contrast, the change to bring average earnings into the calculation would hardly have mattered had RPI still been in use, because the last 13 years have seen wage increases stagnant or falling even behind CPI and very rarely exceeding both RPI and 2.5%.

    On the other hand, while the state pension is no higher than it would have been, there have been plenty of other changes which have adversely the incomes of the elderly:
    eg.
    - the continued raising of the state pension age, despite the rise in life expectancy flatlining
    - the particularly harsh treatment of WASPI women
    - changes that require longer contribution periods so that fewer new retiree s are able to access the full pension
    - freezing of many benefits specific to older people such as pension credits, which amounted to real term cuts.

    On the back of all this, with the huge cut in local authority funding, the public services that matter most to the elderly have been drastically cut, with social care a shadow of its former self. And the NHS is starting to go in the same direction.

    The reasons that fewer pensioners nowadays find themselves in poverty is due to the growth and generosity of occupational pensions now being paid out.

    Edit: 2nd para, 2nd line should read "the CPI annual uplift being on average about 1% less than RPI".
  • Cyclefree said:

    In today's Times -



    The implication that stress makes you commit sexual assault/ rape colleagues is 😱. Very many women do stressful jobs without turning to sexual abuse to relieve their "stress". My niece is a consultant anaesthetist at a major teaching hospital who suffered an appalling amount of stress working during Covid and who managed to do so without sexually assaulting colleagues.

    Maybe it is men like the doctor writing this letter - who seemingly cannot cope with this "stress" - who are wrong for this profession. Or, indeed, all the other professions with a problem with men assaulting their female colleagues or clients.

    There are letters/emails you write - which you then print off, read, screw up and throw in the bin. If you send them you make a fool of yourself - or worse.

    This was one of those letters.

    Tldr; Women... Man up! Incredible stuff, someone actually wrote that.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    edited September 2023

    Taz said:

    I see Angela Rayner is proposing to outlaw zero hours contracts.
    I seem to recall that for some, ZHCs are actually rather useful. I’m sure they can be open to abuse, but is banning them the right way ahead?

    No, reforming them is. Some people like zero hours contracts.
    It was a speech, not a detailed policy proposal. “Ban” is something you say in a speech; a detailed policy proposal will have exceptions.

    I looked at the speech and she said: “We will not only ban zero-hour contracts but ensure all contracts come with minimum hours and reflect normal working life, requiring notice of shift changes and pay when they are cancelled at the last minute.” That gives a bit more detail.
    There's a huge difference between ZHC where you agree to do stuff when you want to and it's available (like me taking translation jobs when I have spare time) and ZHC where you're tied down by an employer and have to keep yourself available for when he happens to want you to do something. The former is fine. The latter is akin to slavery and it should definitely be illegal. (Edit: in its raw form it's already illegal - but the way it works is that if you refuse work you're not offered any more, so in practice you have to keep yourslef available.)
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/13/adults-are-terrified-of-talking-to-us-about-it-10-things-i-learned-from-children-about-pornography

    As a father of three children aged 11 to 17 this is quite a revealing/disturbing read. I have personally never seen any online pornography so I suspect I am quite naive on the subject.

    One of my ex-students has jacked in his chartered accountancy traineeship to move to Budapest (would have been Kiev obvs, but the SMO, etc.) to start a porn content creation business. His idea is porn where none of the women have tattoos. He asked me if I wanted to invest in it and I told him to get fucked. Probably a mistake.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,073
    As somebody who uses trains far more often than they'd like, I can personally attest that:

    * Guards on trains are a necessity.
    * Guards in train stations are a necessity
    * Ticket offices are a necessity.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    I have long said on here that as the nation's finances were seriously buggered by putting in place extraordinarliy expensive meaures to protect the most vulnerable in society from Covid - the pensioners - then those pensioners whose lives were saved need to pay back something towards balancing the books. Going from a triple lock to a double lock is not a massive hardship.

    It should be politically saleable in those terms. Although admittedly, not without a whole load of moaning.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Cyclefree said:

    In today's Times -



    The implication that stress makes you commit sexual assault/ rape colleagues is 😱. Very many women do stressful jobs without turning to sexual abuse to relieve their "stress". My niece is a consultant anaesthetist at a major teaching hospital who suffered an appalling amount of stress working during Covid and who managed to do so without sexually assaulting colleagues.

    Maybe it is men like the doctor writing this letter - who seemingly cannot cope with this "stress" - who are wrong for this profession. Or, indeed, all the other professions with a problem with men assaulting their female colleagues or clients.

    There are letters/emails you write - which you then print off, read, screw up and throw in the bin. If you send them you make a fool of yourself - or worse.

    This was one of those letters.

    Tldr; Women... Man up! Incredible stuff, someone actually wrote that.
    Bet he wasn't the one who got pawed. Or worse.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348
    Cyclefree said:

    In today's Times -



    The implication that stress makes you commit sexual assault/ rape colleagues is 😱. Very many women do stressful jobs without turning to sexual abuse to relieve their "stress". My niece is a consultant anaesthetist at a major teaching hospital who suffered an appalling amount of stress working during Covid and who managed to do so without sexually assaulting colleagues.

    Maybe it is men like the doctor writing this letter - who seemingly cannot cope with this "stress" - who are wrong for this profession. Or, indeed, all the other professions with a problem with men assaulting their female colleagues or clients.

    There are letters/emails you write - which you then print off, read, screw up and throw in the bin. If you send them you make a fool of yourself - or worse.

    This was one of those letters.

    There's a difference between telling a lewd joke, and groping a woman's breasts or bum during the course of performing an operation. I still find it hard to comprehend the idea of leading medical professionals acting in that manner.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    Given the only age group the Tories still lead with in most polls are over 65s, for them to abolish the triple lock could turn a defeat into a rout. It would be political suicide.

    Not to mention those pensioners solely reliant on the state pension have an annual income less than minimum wage
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348
    Dura_Ace said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/13/adults-are-terrified-of-talking-to-us-about-it-10-things-i-learned-from-children-about-pornography

    As a father of three children aged 11 to 17 this is quite a revealing/disturbing read. I have personally never seen any online pornography so I suspect I am quite naive on the subject.

    One of my ex-students has jacked in his chartered accountancy traineeship to move to Budapest (would have been Kiev obvs, but the SMO, etc.) to start a porn content creation business. His idea is porn where none of the women have tattoos. He asked me if I wanted to invest in it and I told him to get fucked. Probably a mistake.

    The fashion for tatoos is one that's hard to understand.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Cyclefree said:

    In today's Times -



    The implication that stress makes you commit sexual assault/ rape colleagues is 😱. Very many women do stressful jobs without turning to sexual abuse to relieve their "stress". My niece is a consultant anaesthetist at a major teaching hospital who suffered an appalling amount of stress working during Covid and who managed to do so without sexually assaulting colleagues.

    Maybe it is men like the doctor writing this letter - who seemingly cannot cope with this "stress" - who are wrong for this profession. Or, indeed, all the other professions with a problem with men assaulting their female colleagues or clients.

    There are letters/emails you write - which you then print off, read, screw up and throw in the bin. If you send them you make a fool of yourself - or worse.

    This was one of those letters.

    Tldr; Women... Man up! Incredible stuff, someone actually wrote that.
    And the Times thought it right to publish it too.

    Buried in the ludicrous 1970's views, there is a point somewhere about expectations of hard work in medical training and the workplace. Clearly people need to go into training and jobs with full understanding of what is required.

    At Bath we have an issue with students who need extra time to complete exams, based on declarations of disability. I'd estimate around 40% of our pharmacy students receive extra time (for things such as dyslexia etc).

    All well and good, although I think many are playing the system. But I doubt that Boots or the Hospital trust who employs them is going to give them extra time to sort the ward round, or 10 minutes rest every hour. At some point people do need to man/woman up.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    edited September 2023
    Unless there’s a joint cross party agreement to ditch the triple lock then I don’t see it ending anytime soon .

    The Tories given their current polling are hardly going to annoy their last core voters .

    Labour surely aren’t going to allow hubris with current polling to shoot themselves in the foot . Or will they ?

    As we saw from May’s disastrous election campaign a big lead can evaporate .

  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Looks like the aerial strike on Sevastopol has likely at least severely damaged a Russian warship and a sub that were both in dry dock for repairs.

    Last night 🇺🇦Ukrainian forces mounted a successful attack on the 🇷🇺Russian naval base at Sevastopol.

    Cruise missile strikes hit dry docks where a Kilo-class submarine and Ropucha class LCT were believed to be under repair.

    #UkraineRussiaWar


    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/1701841320333979960?s=20
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    edited September 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Given the only age group the Tories still lead with in most polls are over 65s, for them to abolish the triple lock could turn a defeat into a rout. It would be political suicide.

    Not to mention those pensioners solely reliant on the state pension have an annual income less than minimum wage

    How many pensioners are solely reliant on the SP without other income such as Pension Credit?

    But it's not generous even with it, I'll give you that.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,035
    MattW said:

    I see Angela Rayner is proposing to outlaw zero hours contracts.
    I seem to recall that for some, ZHCs are actually rather useful. I’m sure they can be open to abuse, but is banning them the right way ahead?

    No - that's Rayner's Trade Union sponsors talking imo.

    Every researched number I have ever seen says most workers like them.
    The other group who want to ban them are employment lawyers, who will of course make a fortune from litigation arising from any more laws in a field in which there are already far too many.

    In fact, iirc, there was a lawyer on here who proposed banning Uber-type contracts, even though 90% of those with them were happy in one poll.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Taz said:

    I see Angela Rayner is proposing to outlaw zero hours contracts.
    I seem to recall that for some, ZHCs are actually rather useful. I’m sure they can be open to abuse, but is banning them the right way ahead?

    No, reforming them is. Some people like zero hours contracts.
    It was a speech, not a detailed policy proposal. “Ban” is something you say in a speech; a detailed policy proposal will have exceptions.

    I looked at the speech and she said: “We will not only ban zero-hour contracts but ensure all contracts come with minimum hours and reflect normal working life, requiring notice of shift changes and pay when they are cancelled at the last minute.” That gives a bit more detail.
    There's a huge difference between ZHC where you agree to do stuff when you want to and it's available (like me taking translation jobs when I have spare time) and ZHC where you're tied down by an employer and have to keep yourself available for when he happens to want you to do something. The former is fine. The latter is akin to slavery and it should definitely be illegal. (Edit: in its raw form it's already illegal - but the way it works is that if you refuse work you're not offered any more, so in practice you have to keep yourslef available.)
    I believe it already is.

    I raised this topic because Rayner specifically says 'Ban'. Now it may be that that is not the intention, but if so why not say it? I think this is the kind of thing that will cause a narrowing of the polls towards the election when Labour start to get the kind a scrutiny a government in waiting receives.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited September 2023
    Taz said:
    William Hague of course being such an expert in how to win general elections he led the Conservatives to their second worst defeat in 150 years in 2001
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 993

    Cyclefree said:

    In today's Times -



    The implication that stress makes you commit sexual assault/ rape colleagues is 😱. Very many women do stressful jobs without turning to sexual abuse to relieve their "stress". My niece is a consultant anaesthetist at a major teaching hospital who suffered an appalling amount of stress working during Covid and who managed to do so without sexually assaulting colleagues.

    Maybe it is men like the doctor writing this letter - who seemingly cannot cope with this "stress" - who are wrong for this profession. Or, indeed, all the other professions with a problem with men assaulting their female colleagues or clients.

    There are letters/emails you write - which you then print off, read, screw up and throw in the bin. If you send them you make a fool of yourself - or worse.

    This was one of those letters.

    Tldr; Women... Man up! Incredible stuff, someone actually wrote that.
    Selected on "mainly academic excellence" - unlike the typical medical college interview which started: "I was at Barts with your father how is he?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051

    Taz said:

    I see Angela Rayner is proposing to outlaw zero hours contracts.
    I seem to recall that for some, ZHCs are actually rather useful. I’m sure they can be open to abuse, but is banning them the right way ahead?

    No, reforming them is. Some people like zero hours contracts.
    It was a speech, not a detailed policy proposal. “Ban” is something you say in a speech; a detailed policy proposal will have exceptions.

    I looked at the speech and she said: “We will not only ban zero-hour contracts but ensure all contracts come with minimum hours and reflect normal working life, requiring notice of shift changes and pay when they are cancelled at the last minute.” That gives a bit more detail.
    There's a huge difference between ZHC where you agree to do stuff when you want to and it's available (like me taking translation jobs when I have spare time) and ZHC where you're tied down by an employer and have to keep yourself available for when he happens to want you to do something. The former is fine. The latter is akin to slavery and it should definitely be illegal. (Edit: in its raw form it's already illegal - but the way it works is that if you refuse work you're not offered any more, so in practice you have to keep yourslef available.)
    I believe it already is.

    I raised this topic because Rayner specifically says 'Ban'. Now it may be that that is not the intention, but if so why not say it? I think this is the kind of thing that will cause a narrowing of the polls towards the election when Labour start to get the kind a scrutiny a government in waiting receives.
    The Government recently said it would ban zombie knives. When they said “ban”, what they meant was “slightly tighten already existing legislation”. “Ban” is shorthand used in speeches.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited September 2023
    boulay said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "MI5 warned Conservatives that MP hopefuls could be spies
    Two potential candidates dropped after the intelligence service said they could be Chinese agents" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mi5-conservatives-tory-candidate-list-china-spies-t6nvzxnd0

    By the look of things the Tories could have 100 Chinese spy candidates and it won’t matter as they are being wiped out so MI5 should be focussing on Labour candidates.

    On a more serious note - this made me wonder if there were any East Asian origin MPs - I can’t think of any off the top of my head. There seems to be a healthy number of Black and South Asian MPs but I can’t think of any of Chinese origin or Hong Kong or similar which surprises me.
    Havant MP Alan Mak, though most British Chinese parents want their children to go into law or medicine or tech or business, there are few Chinese mothers dreaming of the day their child becomes a Conservative or Labour MP

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Mak_(politician)
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Sean_F said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/13/adults-are-terrified-of-talking-to-us-about-it-10-things-i-learned-from-children-about-pornography

    As a father of three children aged 11 to 17 this is quite a revealing/disturbing read. I have personally never seen any online pornography so I suspect I am quite naive on the subject.

    One of my ex-students has jacked in his chartered accountancy traineeship to move to Budapest (would have been Kiev obvs, but the SMO, etc.) to start a porn content creation business. His idea is porn where none of the women have tattoos. He asked me if I wanted to invest in it and I told him to get fucked. Probably a mistake.

    The fashion for tatoos is one that's hard to understand.
    There hasn't been a tattooed tory since King George V. FACT.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348
    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:
    William Hague of course being such an expert in how to win general elections he led the Conservatives to their second worst defeat in 150 years in 2001
    The triple lock is morally indefensible.

    That doesn't mean it won't stay in place for political reasons.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    Taz said:

    I see Angela Rayner is proposing to outlaw zero hours contracts.
    I seem to recall that for some, ZHCs are actually rather useful. I’m sure they can be open to abuse, but is banning them the right way ahead?

    No, reforming them is. Some people like zero hours contracts.
    It was a speech, not a detailed policy proposal. “Ban” is something you say in a speech; a detailed policy proposal will have exceptions.

    I looked at the speech and she said: “We will not only ban zero-hour contracts but ensure all contracts come with minimum hours and reflect normal working life, requiring notice of shift changes and pay when they are cancelled at the last minute.” That gives a bit more detail.
    There's a huge difference between ZHC where you agree to do stuff when you want to and it's available (like me taking translation jobs when I have spare time) and ZHC where you're tied down by an employer and have to keep yourself available for when he happens to want you to do something. The former is fine. The latter is akin to slavery and it should definitely be illegal.
    The thing I think people forget is that most of us are well paid / well enough off that we can tell people where to go.

    A lot of people on zero hour contracts just don't have the choice they will accept / suffer really bad conditions (see @OldKingCole 's grandson's example) because they have no choice.

    And from what I remember of the Union's demands they aren't actually that insane - it is something like companies need to provide x hours work a week if the worker wants to do it. The one thing it stops is a company "employing someone" but not giving them anywork...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    Dura_Ace said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/13/adults-are-terrified-of-talking-to-us-about-it-10-things-i-learned-from-children-about-pornography

    As a father of three children aged 11 to 17 this is quite a revealing/disturbing read. I have personally never seen any online pornography so I suspect I am quite naive on the subject.

    One of my ex-students has jacked in his chartered accountancy traineeship to move to Budapest (would have been Kiev obvs, but the SMO, etc.) to start a porn content creation business. His idea is porn where none of the women have tattoos. He asked me if I wanted to invest in it and I told him to get fucked. Probably a mistake.
    I suspect he will find some heavy-duty non-accountant types muscling in on his business if it is successful. Probably not a mistake.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    I see the "Don't Close Ticket Offices" petition has passed 100k signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636542

    I’d be interested to know how many of the signatories actually use ticket offices as opposed to just like the idea of them.

    Our local ticket office was closed. It was the re opened after a backlash against it then closed again a few months later as hardly anyone used it.
    The only time I would ever NOT use a ticket office, and use a machine instead, is when there is a large queue already at the ticket office.
    It works well in London, but only because the ticketing system is simple enough that even a computer can process it.

    That doesn't map on the national network, and I'm not sure it could.
    A big issue is maximum price. The “wrong” mainline ticket is 3 figures. The “wrong” TfL ticket is a few pounds.
    Indeed last time I got a ticket from a machine as had to goto the office it cost me 99£. On the train it was checked and I was told it was the wrong ticket and I had to pay another 200£.....not even first class ticket
  • I have long said on here that as the nation's finances were seriously buggered by putting in place extraordinarliy expensive meaures to protect the most vulnerable in society from Covid - the pensioners - then those pensioners whose lives were saved need to pay back something towards balancing the books. Going from a triple lock to a double lock is not a massive hardship.

    It should be politically saleable in those terms. Although admittedly, not without a whole load of moaning.

    Just have a single lock. Upgrade against CPI only. That will preserve the purchasing power of the state pension, it doesnt need any further enhancement.

    Yes the state pension is not a lot but if people want more they have a potential working career of 40+ years to secure some additional private provision.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    Dear Sirkeith, please step into this elephant trap for centrist dads, we promise we won't shimmy out after you get caught, signed, the Tories.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:
    William Hague of course being such an expert in how to win general elections he led the Conservatives to their second worst defeat in 150 years in 2001
    Hardly a massive blemish on Hague's career. I'm not sure the Tories led by Jesus Christ himself would have made much of a dent in Tony Blair's majority, at least not until the scales fell from the voters' eyes with Iraq.
This discussion has been closed.