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Could Biden Win The Presidency But Lose The Popular Vote? – politicalbetting.com

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  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,611

    Jeremy Corbyn
    @jeremycorbyn
    What's more "extreme":

    Believing that children should have enough food to eat?

    Or refusing to tax the super-rich while 4.2 million kids live in poverty?
  • Stocky said:

    kjh said:

    Stocky said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fishing said:

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    From September 15, British expats in Spain may need to ditch their UK-issued driving licences for a Spanish one.
    https://www.gbnews.com/lifestyle/british-expats-driving-licence-changes-spain-2665089823

    GB News is popular with expats on the Costas, apparently.

    Is this just another one where our Conservative Government dropped the equality ball?

    Here's the equivalent term for Italy - UK Residents in Italy get their licences recognised for one year after gaining Residency, and can just exchange it for a limited period of 5 years if expired; Italian Residents in UK get their licences recognised until expiry date in Italy, and can exchange it here forever with no test.

    Whereas a United Kingdom driving licence, as long as it has not expired, remains
    valid for the purposes of driving in the territory of the Italian Republic for one year
    after the date of acquisition of the holder's residence in the territory of the Italian
    Republic,
    Whereas an Italian driving licence remains valid for the purposes of driving in the
    territory of the United Kingdom until its expiry date even after the holder has
    acquired residence in the territory of the United Kingdom


    See clause 2:
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1128283/CS_UK_Italy_1.2023_Mutual_Recognition_Driving_Licences.pdf

    This raises yet another red flag for me on road safety grounds.
    The catch in Italy is that after six months you need to re register your British plated car, though.
    Given the standard of driving I just observed in two weeks in Italy I'm amazed we recognise their licenses at all.
    It must be the Italian driving test that’s to blame. They just sit the student down, give him or her the mission to get past the vehicle in front, and if they make it, they pass.
    A quip? "Driven by Italians".

    Here's a video clip put out by the Black Belt Barrister yesterday about everyday driving in the UK. Driver reversed down a country lane chasing a cyclist he had close passed who had shouted "Watch Out", so out of control / not looking than he forced a quadbike off the road and ran over a dog.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3LB7Ri7-xg

    North Yorks Police "No traffic offences committed", "The Driver probably wanted to talk". Apart I'd say from Careless Driving or Dangerous Driving, whatever the offence is on reversing, and several others. Various non motoring offences too, starting with common assault.
    I haven't seen the clip but at the margins you can see the mechanism by which this happens.

    Cyclist going at 20-25mph doing a time, so doesn't pull over to let the driver past, and nor do they heel over to the side of the road to give space, because of their line, so the driver is basically blocked. The driver gets increasingly frustrated and then when an opportunity to overtake arises - at a closeness less than ideal - the cyclist shouts out, somewhat pompously to the driver, and this triggers a rage in the car driver.

    I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.
    Maybe you should watch the clip before commenting. You didn't even know what direction each were traveling in (it wasn't an overtake). The cyclist did nothing wrong. The cyclist had nowhere to go. The driver was irresponsible. He could have killed the cyclist who could do nothing to avoid what happened as it was head on. The cyclist response was restrained. The driver then suffered from road rage and as a consequence caused the death of a dog. It could easily have been the quad bike rider killed with him reversing at that speed on a narrow lane.

    But yes don't look at the video and comment with no evidence whatsoever and blame the cyclist.
    I might add also if the incident had been as Casino thought he also doesn't know his highway code regarding cyclists. Cyclists should not 'pull over' or 'heel over'. To do so is dangerous. Quote the code:

    "The 2022 Highway Code no longer asks for cyclists to stay on the left side of the road – or, indeed, to use any provided cycle lanes. Instead, cyclists are told to ride “no less than half a metre” from the kerb or verge. This places a greater responsibility on motorists to overtake cyclists safely."

    Motorists also have to leave a 1.5 metre gap, or greater if over 30mph. Some of these rules don't apply in slow moving traffic.

    And cyclists shout out because they have been really scared by these incidents. It is not pomposity when you have been nearly swiped by a wing mirror, it is bloody scary.
    Let's assume that the dog survived but will incur very expensive vet fees. Who pays?

    The driver hasn't been charged with anything (despite the ridiculous and illegal reversing).

    Going back in time, what alternative actions would have resulted in no harm to the dog?:

    1) the cyclist didn't shout at the driver
    2) the driver didn't reverse
    3) the quadbike rider had tethered his dog

    Any of these would have saved the dog.

    So who pays?
    I didn't mention because it wasn't the topic of the discussion, but the quad biker owner was seriously at fault for not tethering the dog who could have jumped out at any time. About the only person who was blameless was the cyclist.
    If you look at the video (front cam) 13 seconds in and pause it: this is the point at which the cyclist shouts at the driver. At this point he is about three car lengths before passing the car. The car at this point has already moved position so it is almost brushing the vegetation at the side of the road. There is plenty of room for the cyclist. I cannot see what warranted the shout and this is what caused the chain of events.

    Though the driver was obviously majorly at fault for the harm to the dog through his reckless and illegal actions it really isn't a good idea for road users to shout at other road users.
    I think a shout out like "watch out!" by the cyclist in those circumstances is likely to be reflexive or involuntary. If he'd been abusive, which some people might be in those circumstances, then I guess the car driver might have felt justifiably offended, however, in neither case does it justify reversing at speed towards the cyclist, and just what were his intentions? To scare the cyclist? To catch up with the cyclist and then verbally or physically attack them? We can only speculate, but it would be interesting to hear what explanation the driver gave to the police.

    Either way, a third party entered the scene, and got caught up in the fray, with upsetting consequences.

    Being shouted at by other motorists, pedestrians and cyclists is quite common on the roads today, I've experienced it myself, occasionally I've been in the wrong, but I haven't let it hurt my feelings or bugger up my day (or anyone else's). I've certainly never felt compelled to take retaliatory action.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    That’s deeply suboptimal. I mean, c'mon, he couldn’t win as the incumbent without indictments

    How? Hasn't his polling improved since he's been indicted.

    The Dems have left it too late to dump Biden now so they are stuck with Abe Simpson. The best they can hope for is that he drops dead about 3 weeks before polling day and Harris gets in on a wave of sympathy and confusion.
    His polling in the primary has improved - I think it is less the case in GE polling.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,351
    Cyclefree said:

    Since the NHS is once again one of the subjects of the thread, reposting this - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/female-surgeons-sexually-assaulted-uk-hospitals-2023-times-health-commission-mwlphr2jc.

    Hours have been devoted in recent days to violent and nuisance dogs. Violent and nuisance men are also a bit of a menace. Just saying.

    Yes - a very important one.
  • Torsten Bell
    @TorstenBell

    That is a massive fall in employment - down 0.5%. Straight into higher unemployment. The red hot labour market of last year is long gone.

    https://twitter.com/TorstenBell/status/1701478718831575417
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,351
    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    That’s deeply suboptimal. I mean, c'mon, he couldn’t win as the incumbent without indictments

    How? Hasn't his polling improved since he's been indicted.

    The Dems have left it too late to dump Biden now so they are stuck with Abe Simpson. The best they can hope for is that he drops dead about 3 weeks before polling day and Harris gets in on a wave of sympathy and confusion.
    How much campaigning time is Trump going to have next year - either when he's dealing with half a dozen court actions in the first half, and is potentially behind bars for the rest of it?

  • Jeremy Corbyn
    @jeremycorbyn
    What's more "extreme":

    Believing that children should have enough food to eat?

    Or refusing to tax the super-rich while 4.2 million kids live in poverty?

    And for the seventh thousand time, the best way to ensure that happens is to make Labour unelectable allowing the Tories to veer off into Bluekip land.....

  • Jeremy Corbyn
    @jeremycorbyn
    What's more "extreme":

    Believing that children should have enough food to eat?

    Or refusing to tax the super-rich while 4.2 million kids live in poverty?

    Good morning

    He's right and start by impossible a 50% tax on all football transfers
  • MattW said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    That’s deeply suboptimal. I mean, c'mon, he couldn’t win as the incumbent without indictments

    How? Hasn't his polling improved since he's been indicted.

    The Dems have left it too late to dump Biden now so they are stuck with Abe Simpson. The best they can hope for is that he drops dead about 3 weeks before polling day and Harris gets in on a wave of sympathy and confusion.
    How much campaigning time is Trump going to have next year - either when he's dealing with half a dozen court actions in the first half, and is potentially behind bars for the rest of it?
    He doesn't need any. The Dems are doing his campaigning for him.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,620
    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    Some twat this morning overtook me on his HumanForest dick bike and then almost immediately tried to cut in front of me to turn left. I certainly did some shouting but on he went on his way, oblivious. Hopefully head first into a Ford Kuga before too long.

    2/10, try harder
    It wasn't you, was it.
  • MattW said:

    Final note on the clip I posted earlier.

    It's a good example of a series which is quite effective long-term campaigning, to highlight poor driving standards in the UK, and institutional lack of action by police etc.

    I'm always quite surprised how many institutions, Councils etc, do actually respond to requests for comment.

    It is part of a series called "Near Miss of the Day", which has been running for quite a few years, and yesterday's episode was NMOTD Episode 874.

    https://road.cc/show/tags/near-miss-day/143145

    Why not crowdfund a private prosecution?

    On a lot of the videos the blame is not always clear cut with a mix of road design, driver and cyclist having various degrees of culpability, but on this one that driver should at least lose his license, probably worthy of a suspended jail sentence too.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Leon said:

    Indeed I think I’ve found my first mildly fucked-up French town

    Saint Chely d’Apcher

    Awful lot of shuttered shops

    France has a strong culture of buying locally. From my experience (up until 5 years ago) in Normandy the market days cause a huge influx of people coming in to buy produce from the immediate area. France, of course, being one giant farm with the occasional town and city thrown in.

    The local shops always seemed to have a good level of custom albeit this was in a touristy area. Internet shopping did not at the time give a good experience* and out in the sticks next day Amazon delivery was unheard of. This will change. As online shopping grows the rural town centres will decline the same way as they have done in the UK.

    * Online shopping in France anecdote from about 2017. Ordered a new tumble dryer online - no French AO equivalent so tried to find a relatively big brand. On day we were told delivery should come it did not arrive. Call them at the end of the day - told to call back tomorrow as they were going home. Call the next day and they now say they can't deliver it and we will need to drive to a warehouse in Caen to collect it - it will be there the following day. The next day drive to the warehouse in Caen. Large queue of people waiting. Speak to them and they know nothing about the tumble dryer. Give up, go home and spend the next 2 days cancelling the order and buying one instead from the small electrical shop on the local high street - delivered and installed the same day.
  • On the topic of motorist v cyclist I always give to cyclists and provide safe passing distance

    I do have a dash cam which records my speed and everything happening in front of me with the time and date. Maybe it makes me a more polite and cautious driver as it could be used against me but also I can use it in my defence

    I think dash cams are a very good investment
  • Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    That’s deeply suboptimal. I mean, c'mon, he couldn’t win as the incumbent without indictments

    How? Hasn't his polling improved since he's been indicted.

    The Dems have left it too late to dump Biden now so they are stuck with Abe Simpson. The best they can hope for is that he drops dead about 3 weeks before polling day and Harris gets in on a wave of sympathy and confusion.
    Well 538 is unconvinced that it has this time although it did after the first one (was that a coincidence? See 538 take below).
    "the indictment doesn’t seem to have affected Trump’s standing in the 2024 presidential race so far. That lack of movement might seem surprising after Trump gained in the polls in April after his first indictment. But there are a couple of reasons why Trump might not be getting the same boost.
    First, it’s possible that anyone who was inclined to rally toward Trump because he was under legal attack has already done so.
    Second, Trump may not have gained in the polls in April because of his first indictment. Trump actually started rising in the polls on March 21, over a week before the indictment, and the rate of his increase was about the same before and after.
    In addition, from March 29 to May 29, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis actually lost more ground (8.2 percentage points) than Trump gained (6.4 points), suggesting the shift may have had more to do with DeSantis losing ground than Trump gaining (during this period, DeSantis endured several bad headlines about whether he was ready for primetime)."
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-the-polls-say-after-trumps-second-indictment/

    Biden has had a successful presidency if you look at what he has achieved rather than when he has a fall. In any case, if Trump is the opponent, then anyone would be better.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,201
    MattW said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Since the NHS is once again one of the subjects of the thread, reposting this - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/female-surgeons-sexually-assaulted-uk-hospitals-2023-times-health-commission-mwlphr2jc.

    Hours have been devoted in recent days to violent and nuisance dogs. Violent and nuisance men are also a bit of a menace. Just saying.

    Yes - a very important one.
    A consultant anesthetist came to see me once, in my hospital days. A middle-aged man accompanied by an obviously reasonably new and female junior.
    Wanted to know if I could turn her green so he could take her to a Trekkie meeting. She objected and he was quite rude.
    He was well-known, in the hospital, as an eccentric bordering on the insane so we all, eventually, laughed about it!
    Except, understandably, the junior doctor.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,109
    edited September 2023
    MattW said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    That’s deeply suboptimal. I mean, c'mon, he couldn’t win as the incumbent without indictments

    How? Hasn't his polling improved since he's been indicted.

    The Dems have left it too late to dump Biden now so they are stuck with Abe Simpson. The best they can hope for is that he drops dead about 3 weeks before polling day and Harris gets in on a wave of sympathy and confusion.
    How much campaigning time is Trump going to have next year - either when he's dealing with half a dozen court actions in the first half, and is potentially behind bars for the rest of it?
    Regrettably, that is campaigning time for Trump. He'll dominate the airwaves, his social media brain-farts will be pored over, and assuming he'll be free pending appeal should he be sentenced to prison time, he'll fly in for rallies in front of adoring crowds of simpletons.

    It's not like he's a minor candidate, desperately trying to make an impression by shaking as many hands as possible in New Hampshire, and giving as many vaguely entertaining stump speeches as he can at hog roasts across Iowa. For them, being in a courtroom for lengths of time would take them away from the spotlight they need to occupy. Trump, unfortunately, is beyond all that - he takes the spotlight with him wherever he goes.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,280
    AlistairM said:

    Leon said:

    Indeed I think I’ve found my first mildly fucked-up French town

    Saint Chely d’Apcher

    Awful lot of shuttered shops

    France has a strong culture of buying locally. From my experience (up until 5 years ago) in Normandy the market days cause a huge influx of people coming in to buy produce from the immediate area. France, of course, being one giant farm with the occasional town and city thrown in.

    The local shops always seemed to have a good level of custom albeit this was in a touristy area. Internet shopping did not at the time give a good experience* and out in the sticks next day Amazon delivery was unheard of. This will change. As online shopping grows the rural town centres will decline the same way as they have done in the UK.

    * Online shopping in France anecdote from about 2017. Ordered a new tumble dryer online - no French AO equivalent so tried to find a relatively big brand. On day we were told delivery should come it did not arrive. Call them at the end of the day - told to call back tomorrow as they were going home. Call the next day and they now say they can't deliver it and we will need to drive to a warehouse in Caen to collect it - it will be there the following day. The next day drive to the warehouse in Caen. Large queue of people waiting. Speak to them and they know nothing about the tumble dryer. Give up, go home and spend the next 2 days cancelling the order and buying one instead from the small electrical shop on the local high street - delivered and installed the same day.
    This is actually quite shocking. Outside the very centre more than half the shops, bars, restaurants
    are permanently closed. Urban decline, post covid, is everywhere

  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,280
    Etc


  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,351

    MattW said:

    Final note on the clip I posted earlier.

    It's a good example of a series which is quite effective long-term campaigning, to highlight poor driving standards in the UK, and institutional lack of action by police etc.

    I'm always quite surprised how many institutions, Councils etc, do actually respond to requests for comment.

    It is part of a series called "Near Miss of the Day", which has been running for quite a few years, and yesterday's episode was NMOTD Episode 874.

    https://road.cc/show/tags/near-miss-day/143145

    Why not crowdfund a private prosecution?

    On a lot of the videos the blame is not always clear cut with a mix of road design, driver and cyclist having various degrees of culpability, but on this one that driver should at least lose his license, probably worthy of a suspended jail sentence too.
    I haven't heard of private prosecutions, but civil claims are increasingly common.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,392
    Leon said:

    Etc


    There are loads of absolute dumps in France it’s just that most tourists never have any reason to go to these places or they pass through to go skiing and never see the reality.

    I remember lots of them before you start going up the mountains that were like your photos with the added beauty of the Zones Artisanales for all the B&Q or tyre fitting places and Zones Industrieles and messy caravan villages hiding behind the trees off the main road.

    Outside Geneva tourists will go to Evian, Thonon Les Bains or Yvoire and splendour at these beautiful smart places but they won’t be going to Annemasse or the other towns not too far away where they are based on small industry. Shitholes.

  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Leon said:

    Fishing said:

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    From September 15, British expats in Spain may need to ditch their UK-issued driving licences for a Spanish one.
    https://www.gbnews.com/lifestyle/british-expats-driving-licence-changes-spain-2665089823

    GB News is popular with expats on the Costas, apparently.

    Is this just another one where our Conservative Government dropped the equality ball?

    Here's the equivalent term for Italy - UK Residents in Italy get their licences recognised for one year after gaining Residency, and can just exchange it for a limited period of 5 years if expired; Italian Residents in UK get their licences recognised until expiry date in Italy, and can exchange it here forever with no test.

    Whereas a United Kingdom driving licence, as long as it has not expired, remains
    valid for the purposes of driving in the territory of the Italian Republic for one year
    after the date of acquisition of the holder's residence in the territory of the Italian
    Republic,
    Whereas an Italian driving licence remains valid for the purposes of driving in the
    territory of the United Kingdom until its expiry date even after the holder has
    acquired residence in the territory of the United Kingdom


    See clause 2:
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1128283/CS_UK_Italy_1.2023_Mutual_Recognition_Driving_Licences.pdf

    This raises yet another red flag for me on road safety grounds.
    The catch in Italy is that after six months you need to re register your British plated car, though.
    Given the standard of driving I just observed in two weeks in Italy I'm amazed we recognise their licenses at all.
    It really does put me off holidaying there. In every other respect it's a great place to visit.

    The fact that they apparently themselves voted themselves Europe's worse drivers rather says it al (can't find link, so might not be true).
    I can vouch for that, having driven a hire car around Sicily for a week a couple of years ago. The sense of relief when I handed the car back undamaged (unlike 99% of the other cars on the road) at the end of the week was overwhelming.
    The key to driving abroad is

    1. Do it a lot, soon it becomes 2nd nature

    2. Drive like the locals. If they are polite drive politely, if you are in Sicily drive like a happy drunk with latent anger issues

    Once I realised that, I loved driving in Sicily, becauseyou have more freedom. Park anywhere. Drive the wrong way down a pavement. No one cares

    The only place I wouldn’t drive is a massive congested insane “global south” city like Cairo or Calcutta. That is indeed madness
    Not Italy, but my experience was in Greece this Summer. Had an accident in a hire car in Crete when there for a week.

    From day 1 there I hated driving there - minimal road markings and the drivers go all over the place. On the last day I had to take a different route back to where we were staying and turned onto a road in a town with cars parked on both sides going straight downhill. I was going quite slowly as I didn't really know where I was - probably about 10mph.

    This was the stop sign that you couldn't see at all until less than 10m from the junction because the trees in front covered it. Even when it was revealed it was half covered in stickers.



    As you might imagine I didn't clock the sign and there were no road markings so it looked like the road went straight ahead and due to the cars parking you couldn't even tell it was a junction until the last minute.

    A young lad was going 40mph plus perpendicular to me. I couldn't stop in time and went in the side - slow enough from my perspective that the air bags didn't go off. Very fortunately no one was hurt.

    Made me really appreciate how much better the UK is for signage for road users. We would have had giant stop signs that no one would have even thought to put stickers on along with markings on the road. Accident would never have happened.

    Also very fortunate that I had taken the extra cover on the hire car!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,875
    That's a thoughtful header. I'd have expected a Republican lead of 2.7% in Congress to give a lead of 30 to 40 seats, based upon past performance. Although, good results in New York and California did gain some seats.

    Republican failure in some marginal seats was in part, due to selecting some truly atrocious candidates (a problem since at least 2010). The question is whether Trump himself will repel voters in those swing States (that seems to be the case in Georgia, but I'm not sure about the rest). Biden definitely seems more popular in the Mid West than Hilary Clinton was.

    But, yes, it would be quite easy to see a tie resulting in Trump picking up places like Nevada, Virginia, New Hampshire, Arizona, but still falling short in those crucial mid West States.
  • MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Final note on the clip I posted earlier.

    It's a good example of a series which is quite effective long-term campaigning, to highlight poor driving standards in the UK, and institutional lack of action by police etc.

    I'm always quite surprised how many institutions, Councils etc, do actually respond to requests for comment.

    It is part of a series called "Near Miss of the Day", which has been running for quite a few years, and yesterday's episode was NMOTD Episode 874.

    https://road.cc/show/tags/near-miss-day/143145

    Why not crowdfund a private prosecution?

    On a lot of the videos the blame is not always clear cut with a mix of road design, driver and cyclist having various degrees of culpability, but on this one that driver should at least lose his license, probably worthy of a suspended jail sentence too.
    I haven't heard of private prosecutions, but civil claims are increasingly common.
    I suspect if it was started in this case the CPS would quickly take over out of embarrassment.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,700
    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    That’s deeply suboptimal. I mean, c'mon, he couldn’t win as the incumbent without indictments

    How? Hasn't his polling improved since he's been indicted.

    The Dems have left it too late to dump Biden now so they are stuck with Abe Simpson. The best they can hope for is that he drops dead about 3 weeks before polling day and Harris gets in on a wave of sympathy and confusion.
    Trump: At the moment there's the prospect of him running at the same time as fighting to stay out of jail. If this is replaced by the reality of it, the trials happening, the election coming closer, rally then court, rally then court, sordid revelations, defence creaking under forensic scrutiny, tv moments, people turning stooly on him, etc, this will gnaw at his numbers and they'll fall away to a level where he can't win. That's what I see happening if he's the candidate.

    Biden: Everything points to him being the Dem candidate, I agree. I wonder what he'd do if the GOP don't go with Trump though. I mean, he's the Trump Slayer so if there's no Trump to slay and he's 81? Hmm. Interesting.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    About to start my annual safeguarding - and other - training needed for my role as a school trustee. Hours of it. But necessary.

    I'm sure @ydoethur will be along shortly to congratulate me.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,620
    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    Some twat this morning overtook me on his HumanForest dick bike and then almost immediately tried to cut in front of me to turn left. I certainly did some shouting but on he went on his way, oblivious. Hopefully head first into a Ford Kuga before too long.

    2/10, try harder
    It wasn't you, was it.
    No, unfortunately.
    Shame.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,875

    On topic, I struggle to see how many votes Trump can pick up over his total last time. If you didn't vote for him then, why would you vote for him now?

    So we're back to Biden's tally and how far that could fall. In 2020 voting Biden was something done to stop Trump. With Trump being madder and badder than last time I can't see how that driver dissipates much.

    So we're looking for disillusioned democrats prepared to risk Trump. Or the people who came out to vote to stop Trump who usually don't deciding it doesn't matter this time.

    A lot Americans dislike Biden, as indeed, many dislike Trump.
  • .
    Sean_F said:

    On topic, I struggle to see how many votes Trump can pick up over his total last time. If you didn't vote for him then, why would you vote for him now?

    So we're back to Biden's tally and how far that could fall. In 2020 voting Biden was something done to stop Trump. With Trump being madder and badder than last time I can't see how that driver dissipates much.

    So we're looking for disillusioned democrats prepared to risk Trump. Or the people who came out to vote to stop Trump who usually don't deciding it doesn't matter this time.

    A lot Americans dislike Biden, as indeed, many dislike Trump.
    Indeed - I identified that when I mentioned disillusioned democrats.

    Biden and the entire Democrat party are not what I would want. But when the alternative is worse? Trump winning would end the existing democratic model which is on its knees awaiting either execution or salvation.

    Biden may not be great. But he isn't pledging to make political arrests of people who disagree with him.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,109
    edited September 2023
    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    That’s deeply suboptimal. I mean, c'mon, he couldn’t win as the incumbent without indictments

    How? Hasn't his polling improved since he's been indicted.

    The Dems have left it too late to dump Biden now so they are stuck with Abe Simpson. The best they can hope for is that he drops dead about 3 weeks before polling day and Harris gets in on a wave of sympathy and confusion.
    Trump: At the moment there's the prospect of him running at the same time as fighting to stay out of jail. If this is replaced by the reality of it, the trials happening, the election coming closer, rally then court, rally then court, sordid revelations, defence creaking under forensic scrutiny, tv moments, people turning stooly on him, etc, this will gnaw at his numbers and they'll fall away to a level where he can't win. That's what I see happening if he's the candidate.

    Biden: Everything points to him being the Dem candidate, I agree. I wonder what he'd do if the GOP don't go with Trump though. I mean, he's the Trump Slayer so if there's no Trump to slay and he's 81? Hmm. Interesting.
    On Biden, I get the impression he really enjoys being President in a way that has somewhat surprised even himself. That may sound a bit daft but, although he stood to beat Trump, he's possibly re-standing because he loves doing the job. For all the physical frailties that sometimes come to the fore, it does appear to have given him something of a new lease of life. Some Presidents get worn down by the office but, frankly, he seems to thrive on it just on a personal level.

    I don't really think that's a good enough reason why he ought to stand - he promised to be a bridge to the future and has turned into a bit of a roadblock to the future. But the way he feels about the job is probably pretty important in terms of informing his actual decision on standing.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,875

    .

    Sean_F said:

    On topic, I struggle to see how many votes Trump can pick up over his total last time. If you didn't vote for him then, why would you vote for him now?

    So we're back to Biden's tally and how far that could fall. In 2020 voting Biden was something done to stop Trump. With Trump being madder and badder than last time I can't see how that driver dissipates much.

    So we're looking for disillusioned democrats prepared to risk Trump. Or the people who came out to vote to stop Trump who usually don't deciding it doesn't matter this time.

    A lot Americans dislike Biden, as indeed, many dislike Trump.
    Indeed - I identified that when I mentioned disillusioned democrats.

    Biden and the entire Democrat party are not what I would want. But when the alternative is worse? Trump winning would end the existing democratic model which is on its knees awaiting either execution or salvation.

    Biden may not be great. But he isn't pledging to make political arrests of people who disagree with him.
    The prospect of a Trump win is alarming, and the likelihood of it is underrated on this side of the pond.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,705
    Republicans openly admit that they have no evidence to impeach Biden.

    Rep. Nancy Mace says she supports a House impeachment inquiry. Asked isn't it supposed to be the evidence that leads you to pursue an impeachment inquiry, Mace responds, “That's what the inquiry is for, to get more evidence.”
    https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1701413195578032246
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Not sure if people saw this but yesterday a Russian Airbus (originally leased from an Irish company but now stolen) made a safe emergency landing in a field. Apparently caused by a hydraulics failure, presumably not helped by all the sanctions on aircraft parts.

    What amazes me though is that if this was anywhere else they would leave the plane where it was whilst a full investigation was conducted. Seemingly no investigation is required! Instead the Russians have brought in the breakers. At the very least you would think they would strip it for spare parts.

    Russian Ural Airline crashed an airbus they stole from the Irish leaser Aercap. 159 passengers and 6 crew were on board. Makes you wonder what lead to the crash.
    https://twitter.com/AndrewPerpetua/status/1701524614617206881?s=20
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,023
    edited September 2023
    TOPPING said:

    AlistairM said:
    FFS that's six years old and the Daily Mail was righteously outraged at the time.

    Jeez we need to up our game here. Where were those Mid-Beds predictions.
    They, indeed, need to up their game - recruit the assistant in the Libyan migrant… camps.
  • Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    That’s deeply suboptimal. I mean, c'mon, he couldn’t win as the incumbent without indictments

    How? Hasn't his polling improved since he's been indicted.

    The Dems have left it too late to dump Biden now so they are stuck with Abe Simpson. The best they can hope for is that he drops dead about 3 weeks before polling day and Harris gets in on a wave of sympathy and confusion.
    Trump: At the moment there's the prospect of him running at the same time as fighting to stay out of jail. If this is replaced by the reality of it, the trials happening, the election coming closer, rally then court, rally then court, sordid revelations, defence creaking under forensic scrutiny, tv moments, people turning stooly on him, etc, this will gnaw at his numbers and they'll fall away to a level where he can't win. That's what I see happening if he's the candidate.

    Biden: Everything points to him being the Dem candidate, I agree. I wonder what he'd do if the GOP don't go with Trump though. I mean, he's the Trump Slayer so if there's no Trump to slay and he's 81? Hmm. Interesting.
    On Biden, I get the impression he really enjoys being President in a way that has somewhat surprised even himself. That may sound a bit daft but, for all the physical frailties that sometimes come to the fore, it does appear to have given him something of a new lease of life. Some Presidents get worn down by the office but, frankly, he seems to thrive on it just on a personal level.

    I don't really think that's a good enough reason why he ought to stand - he promised to be a bridge to the future and has turned into a bit of a roadblock to the future. But the way he feels about the job is probably pretty important in terms of informing his actual decision on standing.
    Contrast with Trump who seemed utterly miserable as president. And utterly miserable afterwards. He's a very angry, unhappy old man.
    Indeed, I often wonder a bit why Trump wants to do a job that often seemed to make him miserable rather than playing golf and eating burgers until he dies. I guess the answer is he cannot cope with being known as a failed President, and also there are some pretty damned good reasons why he might want power over pardons.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,700

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    That’s deeply suboptimal. I mean, c'mon, he couldn’t win as the incumbent without indictments

    How? Hasn't his polling improved since he's been indicted.

    The Dems have left it too late to dump Biden now so they are stuck with Abe Simpson. The best they can hope for is that he drops dead about 3 weeks before polling day and Harris gets in on a wave of sympathy and confusion.
    Trump: At the moment there's the prospect of him running at the same time as fighting to stay out of jail. If this is replaced by the reality of it, the trials happening, the election coming closer, rally then court, rally then court, sordid revelations, defence creaking under forensic scrutiny, tv moments, people turning stooly on him, etc, this will gnaw at his numbers and they'll fall away to a level where he can't win. That's what I see happening if he's the candidate.

    Biden: Everything points to him being the Dem candidate, I agree. I wonder what he'd do if the GOP don't go with Trump though. I mean, he's the Trump Slayer so if there's no Trump to slay and he's 81? Hmm. Interesting.
    On Biden, I get the impression he really enjoys being President in a way that has somewhat surprised even himself. That may sound a bit daft but, although he stood to beat Trump, he's possibly re-standing because he loves doing the job. For all the physical frailties that sometimes come to the fore, it does appear to have given him something of a new lease of life. Some Presidents get worn down by the office but, frankly, he seems to thrive on it just on a personal level.

    I don't really think that's a good enough reason why he ought to stand - he promised to be a bridge to the future and has turned into a bit of a roadblock to the future. But the way he feels about the job is probably pretty important in terms of informing his actual decision on standing.
    And it's rare for someone to relinquish a position of great power voluntarily. So I guess he will be on the ballot in Nov. My hunch he won't be is no more than that. But it's a proper hunch so I'm letting it impact my betting a little bit.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,023

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    That’s deeply suboptimal. I mean, c'mon, he couldn’t win as the incumbent without indictments

    How? Hasn't his polling improved since he's been indicted.

    The Dems have left it too late to dump Biden now so they are stuck with Abe Simpson. The best they can hope for is that he drops dead about 3 weeks before polling day and Harris gets in on a wave of sympathy and confusion.
    Trump: At the moment there's the prospect of him running at the same time as fighting to stay out of jail. If this is replaced by the reality of it, the trials happening, the election coming closer, rally then court, rally then court, sordid revelations, defence creaking under forensic scrutiny, tv moments, people turning stooly on him, etc, this will gnaw at his numbers and they'll fall away to a level where he can't win. That's what I see happening if he's the candidate.

    Biden: Everything points to him being the Dem candidate, I agree. I wonder what he'd do if the GOP don't go with Trump though. I mean, he's the Trump Slayer so if there's no Trump to slay and he's 81? Hmm. Interesting.
    On Biden, I get the impression he really enjoys being President in a way that has somewhat surprised even himself. That may sound a bit daft but, for all the physical frailties that sometimes come to the fore, it does appear to have given him something of a new lease of life. Some Presidents get worn down by the office but, frankly, he seems to thrive on it just on a personal level.

    I don't really think that's a good enough reason why he ought to stand - he promised to be a bridge to the future and has turned into a bit of a roadblock to the future. But the way he feels about the job is probably pretty important in terms of informing his actual decision on standing.
    Contrast with Trump who seemed utterly miserable as president. And utterly miserable afterwards. He's a very angry, unhappy old man.
    Indeed, I often wonder a bit why Trump wants to do a job that often seemed to make him miserable rather than playing golf and eating burgers until he dies. I guess the answer is he cannot cope with being known as a failed President, and also there are some pretty damned good reasons why he might want power over pardons.
    It’s interesting to consider the late Roman Republic, where staying in office with Imperium was required to protect yourself from the shit you did while in an office with Imperium. Said shit being done so that you could afford the bribes to get the next appointment/office

    Talk about riding the tiger.

  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,607
    Completely off topic: @Icarus you were going to report back on your visit to Mid Beds. Desperate for some feedback here.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,700
    Sean_F said:

    .

    Sean_F said:

    On topic, I struggle to see how many votes Trump can pick up over his total last time. If you didn't vote for him then, why would you vote for him now?

    So we're back to Biden's tally and how far that could fall. In 2020 voting Biden was something done to stop Trump. With Trump being madder and badder than last time I can't see how that driver dissipates much.

    So we're looking for disillusioned democrats prepared to risk Trump. Or the people who came out to vote to stop Trump who usually don't deciding it doesn't matter this time.

    A lot Americans dislike Biden, as indeed, many dislike Trump.
    Indeed - I identified that when I mentioned disillusioned democrats.

    Biden and the entire Democrat party are not what I would want. But when the alternative is worse? Trump winning would end the existing democratic model which is on its knees awaiting either execution or salvation.

    Biden may not be great. But he isn't pledging to make political arrests of people who disagree with him.
    The prospect of a Trump win is alarming, and the likelihood of it is underrated on this side of the pond.
    Not by punters. It's a rather cramped 3.4 on Betfair.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,427
    AlistairM said:

    Not sure if people saw this but yesterday a Russian Airbus (originally leased from an Irish company but now stolen) made a safe emergency landing in a field. Apparently caused by a hydraulics failure, presumably not helped by all the sanctions on aircraft parts.

    What amazes me though is that if this was anywhere else they would leave the plane where it was whilst a full investigation was conducted. Seemingly no investigation is required! Instead the Russians have brought in the breakers. At the very least you would think they would strip it for spare parts.

    Russian Ural Airline crashed an airbus they stole from the Irish leaser Aercap. 159 passengers and 6 crew were on board. Makes you wonder what lead to the crash.
    https://twitter.com/AndrewPerpetua/status/1701524614617206881?s=20

    The crooked house treatment. Russia indeed being one big crooked house that the current owners are in the process of burning down.
  • Farooq said:


    Jeremy Corbyn
    @jeremycorbyn
    What's more "extreme":

    Believing that children should have enough food to eat?

    Or refusing to tax the super-rich while 4.2 million kids live in poverty?

    Good morning

    He's right and start by impossible a 50% tax on all football transfers
    Why football transfers? We should be careful not just to target that which is highly visible. Football probably isn't a main driver of the problems we have in this country so targeting it would probably fall into the "useless populism" category.
    Over 1 billion would have been raised in the last transfer window
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,607
    edited September 2023

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    That’s deeply suboptimal. I mean, c'mon, he couldn’t win as the incumbent without indictments

    How? Hasn't his polling improved since he's been indicted.

    The Dems have left it too late to dump Biden now so they are stuck with Abe Simpson. The best they can hope for is that he drops dead about 3 weeks before polling day and Harris gets in on a wave of sympathy and confusion.
    Trump: At the moment there's the prospect of him running at the same time as fighting to stay out of jail. If this is replaced by the reality of it, the trials happening, the election coming closer, rally then court, rally then court, sordid revelations, defence creaking under forensic scrutiny, tv moments, people turning stooly on him, etc, this will gnaw at his numbers and they'll fall away to a level where he can't win. That's what I see happening if he's the candidate.

    Biden: Everything points to him being the Dem candidate, I agree. I wonder what he'd do if the GOP don't go with Trump though. I mean, he's the Trump Slayer so if there's no Trump to slay and he's 81? Hmm. Interesting.
    On Biden, I get the impression he really enjoys being President in a way that has somewhat surprised even himself. That may sound a bit daft but, for all the physical frailties that sometimes come to the fore, it does appear to have given him something of a new lease of life. Some Presidents get worn down by the office but, frankly, he seems to thrive on it just on a personal level.

    I don't really think that's a good enough reason why he ought to stand - he promised to be a bridge to the future and has turned into a bit of a roadblock to the future. But the way he feels about the job is probably pretty important in terms of informing his actual decision on standing.
    Contrast with Trump who seemed utterly miserable as president. And utterly miserable afterwards. He's a very angry, unhappy old man.
    Indeed, I often wonder a bit why Trump wants to do a job that often seemed to make him miserable rather than playing golf and eating burgers until he dies. I guess the answer is he cannot cope with being known as a failed President, and also there are some pretty damned good reasons why he might want power over pardons.
    1) Doesn't want to go to prison
    2) He is as mad as a box of frogs
    3) Some people get off on power
    4) Believes his own tripe (see 2 above)
    5) Vanity
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    edited September 2023

    Farooq said:


    Jeremy Corbyn
    @jeremycorbyn
    What's more "extreme":

    Believing that children should have enough food to eat?

    Or refusing to tax the super-rich while 4.2 million kids live in poverty?

    Good morning

    He's right and start by impossible a 50% tax on all football transfers
    Why football transfers? We should be careful not just to target that which is highly visible. Football probably isn't a main driver of the problems we have in this country so targeting it would probably fall into the "useless populism" category.
    Over 1 billion would have been raised in the last transfer window
    Chavs would get restive when English teams were no longer relevant in European competition.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,023
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    That’s deeply suboptimal. I mean, c'mon, he couldn’t win as the incumbent without indictments

    How? Hasn't his polling improved since he's been indicted.

    The Dems have left it too late to dump Biden now so they are stuck with Abe Simpson. The best they can hope for is that he drops dead about 3 weeks before polling day and Harris gets in on a wave of sympathy and confusion.
    Trump: At the moment there's the prospect of him running at the same time as fighting to stay out of jail. If this is replaced by the reality of it, the trials happening, the election coming closer, rally then court, rally then court, sordid revelations, defence creaking under forensic scrutiny, tv moments, people turning stooly on him, etc, this will gnaw at his numbers and they'll fall away to a level where he can't win. That's what I see happening if he's the candidate.

    Biden: Everything points to him being the Dem candidate, I agree. I wonder what he'd do if the GOP don't go with Trump though. I mean, he's the Trump Slayer so if there's no Trump to slay and he's 81? Hmm. Interesting.
    On Biden, I get the impression he really enjoys being President in a way that has somewhat surprised even himself. That may sound a bit daft but, for all the physical frailties that sometimes come to the fore, it does appear to have given him something of a new lease of life. Some Presidents get worn down by the office but, frankly, he seems to thrive on it just on a personal level.

    I don't really think that's a good enough reason why he ought to stand - he promised to be a bridge to the future and has turned into a bit of a roadblock to the future. But the way he feels about the job is probably pretty important in terms of informing his actual decision on standing.
    Contrast with Trump who seemed utterly miserable as president. And utterly miserable afterwards. He's a very angry, unhappy old man.
    Indeed, I often wonder a bit why Trump wants to do a job that often seemed to make him miserable rather than playing golf and eating burgers until he dies. I guess the answer is he cannot cope with being known as a failed President, and also there are some pretty damned good reasons why he might want power over pardons.
    It’s interesting to consider the late Roman Republic, where staying in office with Imperium was required to protect yourself from the shit you did while in an office with Imperium. Said shit being done so that you could afford the bribes to get the next appointment/office

    Talk about riding the tiger.

    Such comparisons can be thought-provoking or amusing, but it's important to realise that political power is more dispersed and less hierarchical in modern democracies. The parallels you identify are real, as is the threat Trump poses to democracy, but it's much likelier he will fail and die than succeed, and there's no chance at all he'll be regarded as a new Caesar
    I’m actually thinking more of characters like Milo and Clodius.

    Caesar had phenomenal ability. In fact that was a big part of the problem.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Sean_F said:

    .

    Sean_F said:

    On topic, I struggle to see how many votes Trump can pick up over his total last time. If you didn't vote for him then, why would you vote for him now?

    So we're back to Biden's tally and how far that could fall. In 2020 voting Biden was something done to stop Trump. With Trump being madder and badder than last time I can't see how that driver dissipates much.

    So we're looking for disillusioned democrats prepared to risk Trump. Or the people who came out to vote to stop Trump who usually don't deciding it doesn't matter this time.

    A lot Americans dislike Biden, as indeed, many dislike Trump.
    Indeed - I identified that when I mentioned disillusioned democrats.

    Biden and the entire Democrat party are not what I would want. But when the alternative is worse? Trump winning would end the existing democratic model which is on its knees awaiting either execution or salvation.

    Biden may not be great. But he isn't pledging to make political arrests of people who disagree with him.
    The prospect of a Trump win is alarming, and the likelihood of it is underrated on this side of the pond.
    Yeah - I'd say it's basically a coin flip, which isn't great...
  • Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    That’s deeply suboptimal. I mean, c'mon, he couldn’t win as the incumbent without indictments

    How? Hasn't his polling improved since he's been indicted.

    The Dems have left it too late to dump Biden now so they are stuck with Abe Simpson. The best they can hope for is that he drops dead about 3 weeks before polling day and Harris gets in on a wave of sympathy and confusion.
    Trump: At the moment there's the prospect of him running at the same time as fighting to stay out of jail. If this is replaced by the reality of it, the trials happening, the election coming closer, rally then court, rally then court, sordid revelations, defence creaking under forensic scrutiny, tv moments, people turning stooly on him, etc, this will gnaw at his numbers and they'll fall away to a level where he can't win. That's what I see happening if he's the candidate.

    Biden: Everything points to him being the Dem candidate, I agree. I wonder what he'd do if the GOP don't go with Trump though. I mean, he's the Trump Slayer so if there's no Trump to slay and he's 81? Hmm. Interesting.
    On Biden, I get the impression he really enjoys being President in a way that has somewhat surprised even himself. That may sound a bit daft but, for all the physical frailties that sometimes come to the fore, it does appear to have given him something of a new lease of life. Some Presidents get worn down by the office but, frankly, he seems to thrive on it just on a personal level.

    I don't really think that's a good enough reason why he ought to stand - he promised to be a bridge to the future and has turned into a bit of a roadblock to the future. But the way he feels about the job is probably pretty important in terms of informing his actual decision on standing.
    Contrast with Trump who seemed utterly miserable as president. And utterly miserable afterwards. He's a very angry, unhappy old man.
    Indeed, I often wonder a bit why Trump wants to do a job that often seemed to make him miserable rather than playing golf and eating burgers until he dies. I guess the answer is he cannot cope with being known as a failed President, and also there are some pretty damned good reasons why he might want power over pardons.
    Trump as President gets to do two key things:
    1 Pardon anyone so far indicted by the government
    2 Issue political arrest warrants against anyone who has gone after the people in camp 1. Including the people in states like Georgia who are going after him.

    Don't say "he won't do 2". He will. And he's already telling people he will. And he will have the support of others already in positions of authority who will direct the actual arrests.

    The political arrest warrant will remove the immediate threat to himself and his allies, and with the pardon and release of so many proud patriots he has a militia ready to be formed in case he gets any resistance from law enforcement.

    The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs had a hair trigger mechanism in place for Trump's final days to remove him from the chain of command. To prevent POTUS from doing anything he liked. But he and others like him would be moved or arrested or both.

    Does this remind anyone of the Nazis? It should. Time we actually talk about American Fascism in the form of DJT and his supporters in the RNC.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,483
    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    That’s deeply suboptimal. I mean, c'mon, he couldn’t win as the incumbent without indictments

    How? Hasn't his polling improved since he's been indicted.

    The Dems have left it too late to dump Biden now so they are stuck with Abe Simpson. The best they can hope for is that he drops dead about 3 weeks before polling day and Harris gets in on a wave of sympathy and confusion.
    Trump: At the moment there's the prospect of him running at the same time as fighting to stay out of jail. If this is replaced by the reality of it, the trials happening, the election coming closer, rally then court, rally then court, sordid revelations, defence creaking under forensic scrutiny, tv moments, people turning stooly on him, etc, this will gnaw at his numbers and they'll fall away to a level where he can't win. That's what I see happening if he's the candidate.

    Biden: Everything points to him being the Dem candidate, I agree. I wonder what he'd do if the GOP don't go with Trump though. I mean, he's the Trump Slayer so if there's no Trump to slay and he's 81? Hmm. Interesting.
    Another interesting possibility is that Trump really gets blocked from standing for one legal reason or another, and then pivots to endorsing a Trumpist candidate who has promised to pardon him (Ramasamy, maybe). The nominee would then have the Trump fervour behind him without the criminal record, which might swing some floating voters if they were worried about Biden's age. Does Biden's Trump-slayer record extend to being a Trump-clone slayer?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,696
    edited September 2023
    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    That’s deeply suboptimal. I mean, c'mon, he couldn’t win as the incumbent without indictments

    How? Hasn't his polling improved since he's been indicted.

    The Dems have left it too late to dump Biden now so they are stuck with Abe Simpson. The best they can hope for is that he drops dead about 3 weeks before polling day and Harris gets in on a wave of sympathy and confusion.
    Trump: At the moment there's the prospect of him running at the same time as fighting to stay out of jail. If this is replaced by the reality of it, the trials happening, the election coming closer, rally then court, rally then court, sordid revelations, defence creaking under forensic scrutiny, tv moments, people turning stooly on him, etc, this will gnaw at his numbers and they'll fall away to a level where he can't win. That's what I see happening if he's the candidate.

    Biden: Everything points to him being the Dem candidate, I agree. I wonder what he'd do if the GOP don't go with Trump though. I mean, he's the Trump Slayer so if there's no Trump to slay and he's 81? Hmm. Interesting.
    On Biden, I get the impression he really enjoys being President in a way that has somewhat surprised even himself. That may sound a bit daft but, for all the physical frailties that sometimes come to the fore, it does appear to have given him something of a new lease of life. Some Presidents get worn down by the office but, frankly, he seems to thrive on it just on a personal level.

    I don't really think that's a good enough reason why he ought to stand - he promised to be a bridge to the future and has turned into a bit of a roadblock to the future. But the way he feels about the job is probably pretty important in terms of informing his actual decision on standing.
    Contrast with Trump who seemed utterly miserable as president. And utterly miserable afterwards. He's a very angry, unhappy old man.
    Johnson didn't enjoy the job, either, contrary to his own expectations. Yes, for sure he enjoyed waking up in the morning and telling the mirror that he was the PM, but after that the day's fun was done.
  • Farooq said:


    Jeremy Corbyn
    @jeremycorbyn
    What's more "extreme":

    Believing that children should have enough food to eat?

    Or refusing to tax the super-rich while 4.2 million kids live in poverty?

    Good morning

    He's right and start by impossible a 50% tax on all football transfers
    Why football transfers? We should be careful not just to target that which is highly visible. Football probably isn't a main driver of the problems we have in this country so targeting it would probably fall into the "useless populism" category.
    Over 1 billion would have been raised in the last transfer window
    Such a pity a little bit more wasn't available in the transfer of Harry Maguire to I-don't-care-just-get-rid-of-him-FC.
  • Nigelb said:

    Kim sensibly takes the train to visit Putin.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-66757311

    No doubt will also stay on the ground floor when he arrives.

    You can still hurt yourself falling out of a window on the ground floor…
  • Nigelb said:

    Kim sensibly takes the train to visit Putin.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-66757311

    No doubt will also stay on the ground floor when he arrives.

    You can still hurt yourself falling out of a window on the ground floor…
    He would certainly be well advised not to put his head out of the train window.
  • Nigelb said:

    Kim sensibly takes the train to visit Putin.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-66757311

    No doubt will also stay on the ground floor when he arrives.

    You can still hurt yourself falling out of a window on the ground floor…
    Especially if you fall out of it repeatedly. And accidentally get eaten by Putin's Bully XL which just so happened to be outside the window and hungry.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,297
    edited September 2023
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:


    Jeremy Corbyn
    @jeremycorbyn
    What's more "extreme":

    Believing that children should have enough food to eat?

    Or refusing to tax the super-rich while 4.2 million kids live in poverty?

    Good morning

    He's right and start by impossible a 50% tax on all football transfers
    Why football transfers? We should be careful not just to target that which is highly visible. Football probably isn't a main driver of the problems we have in this country so targeting it would probably fall into the "useless populism" category.
    Over 1 billion would have been raised in the last transfer window
    Assuming the economic activity continued in the same way given the existence of said tax
    Premier League is linked to about 100k full time jobs, 0.5% of all UK tax and 0.3% of UK GDP.

    Lets kill it off just as it is under threat from Saudi, why not?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,351

    MattW said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    That’s deeply suboptimal. I mean, c'mon, he couldn’t win as the incumbent without indictments

    How? Hasn't his polling improved since he's been indicted.

    The Dems have left it too late to dump Biden now so they are stuck with Abe Simpson. The best they can hope for is that he drops dead about 3 weeks before polling day and Harris gets in on a wave of sympathy and confusion.
    How much campaigning time is Trump going to have next year - either when he's dealing with half a dozen court actions in the first half, and is potentially behind bars for the rest of it?
    He doesn't need any. The Dems are doing his campaigning for him.
    Not sure on that, looking at the few "won't vote for Trump" figures for independent voters I have seen - note that I am no expert on US politics.

    He has, for example, a televised criminal case starting the day before Super Tuesday. No idea what impact that will have.
  • Farooq said:

    Farooq said:


    Jeremy Corbyn
    @jeremycorbyn
    What's more "extreme":

    Believing that children should have enough food to eat?

    Or refusing to tax the super-rich while 4.2 million kids live in poverty?

    Good morning

    He's right and start by impossible a 50% tax on all football transfers
    Why football transfers? We should be careful not just to target that which is highly visible. Football probably isn't a main driver of the problems we have in this country so targeting it would probably fall into the "useless populism" category.
    Over 1 billion would have been raised in the last transfer window
    Assuming the economic activity continued in the same way given the existence of said tax
    Premier League is linked to about 100k full time jobs, 5% of all UK tax and 3% of UK GDP.

    Lets kill it off just as it is under threat from Saudi, why not?
    Lets work on the basis that clubs need to be at least in significant part be owned by the community. Like in Germany. That removes most of the foreign money out of the game and kills it off like in Germany (?)

    Lets then work on the basis that regardless of what rules we put in place on transfer fees (a tax, a cap, a community tithe etc), the greediest stards will go off to play in Saudi or China or whichever market is paying £gonzo fees.

    Players who want to play in a globally significant league will stay. Stards will join HeadChoppers United. But we can take so much of the lunatic cash out of the game and root it to the community without killing it. Like Germany have.
  • Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:


    Jeremy Corbyn
    @jeremycorbyn
    What's more "extreme":

    Believing that children should have enough food to eat?

    Or refusing to tax the super-rich while 4.2 million kids live in poverty?

    Good morning

    He's right and start by impossible a 50% tax on all football transfers
    Why football transfers? We should be careful not just to target that which is highly visible. Football probably isn't a main driver of the problems we have in this country so targeting it would probably fall into the "useless populism" category.
    Over 1 billion would have been raised in the last transfer window
    Assuming the economic activity continued in the same way given the existence of said tax
    Premier League is linked to about 100k full time jobs, 5% of all UK tax and 3% of UK GDP.

    Lets kill it off just as it is under threat from Saudi, why not?
    Taxing transfers more wouldn't kill it off either.

    I'm suspicious of BigG's plan, but we shouldn't exaggerate the downsides either.
    50% tax? So to buy a player from a German club which wants to receive £20m a Prem club has to pay £40m? Yes, that kills off the Premier League as the number one global football club competition within 5 years.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,017

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:


    Jeremy Corbyn
    @jeremycorbyn
    What's more "extreme":

    Believing that children should have enough food to eat?

    Or refusing to tax the super-rich while 4.2 million kids live in poverty?

    Good morning

    He's right and start by impossible a 50% tax on all football transfers
    Why football transfers? We should be careful not just to target that which is highly visible. Football probably isn't a main driver of the problems we have in this country so targeting it would probably fall into the "useless populism" category.
    Over 1 billion would have been raised in the last transfer window
    Assuming the economic activity continued in the same way given the existence of said tax
    Premier League is linked to about 100k full time jobs, 0.5% of all UK tax and 0.3% of UK GDP.

    Lets kill it off just as it is under threat from Saudi, why not?
    I find that astonishing - any links? Each prem club would have a few hundred max, surely?
  • Farooq said:

    Farooq said:


    Jeremy Corbyn
    @jeremycorbyn
    What's more "extreme":

    Believing that children should have enough food to eat?

    Or refusing to tax the super-rich while 4.2 million kids live in poverty?

    Good morning

    He's right and start by impossible a 50% tax on all football transfers
    Why football transfers? We should be careful not just to target that which is highly visible. Football probably isn't a main driver of the problems we have in this country so targeting it would probably fall into the "useless populism" category.
    Over 1 billion would have been raised in the last transfer window
    Assuming the economic activity continued in the same way given the existence of said tax
    Premier League is linked to about 100k full time jobs, 0.5% of all UK tax and 0.3% of UK GDP.

    Lets kill it off just as it is under threat from Saudi, why not?
    I find that astonishing - any links? Each prem club would have a few hundred max, surely?
    https://assets.ey.com/content/dam/ey-sites/ey-com/pt_br/topics/ey-economic-advisory-/ey-premier-league-economic-and-social-impact-january-2019.pdf
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,017
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:


    Jeremy Corbyn
    @jeremycorbyn
    What's more "extreme":

    Believing that children should have enough food to eat?

    Or refusing to tax the super-rich while 4.2 million kids live in poverty?

    Good morning

    He's right and start by impossible a 50% tax on all football transfers
    Why football transfers? We should be careful not just to target that which is highly visible. Football probably isn't a main driver of the problems we have in this country so targeting it would probably fall into the "useless populism" category.
    Over 1 billion would have been raised in the last transfer window
    Assuming the economic activity continued in the same way given the existence of said tax
    Premier League is linked to about 100k full time jobs, 0.5% of all UK tax and 0.3% of UK GDP.

    Lets kill it off just as it is under threat from Saudi, why not?
    I find that astonishing - any links? Each prem club would have a few hundred max, surely?
    "linked to" means all sorts of stuff, tightly related or possibly tangential. Pubs showing games, hotels, transport, merch and retailers, whatever.
    And how many were linked to the old Division 1?
  • Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:


    Jeremy Corbyn
    @jeremycorbyn
    What's more "extreme":

    Believing that children should have enough food to eat?

    Or refusing to tax the super-rich while 4.2 million kids live in poverty?

    Good morning

    He's right and start by impossible a 50% tax on all football transfers
    Why football transfers? We should be careful not just to target that which is highly visible. Football probably isn't a main driver of the problems we have in this country so targeting it would probably fall into the "useless populism" category.
    Over 1 billion would have been raised in the last transfer window
    Assuming the economic activity continued in the same way given the existence of said tax
    Premier League is linked to about 100k full time jobs, 5% of all UK tax and 3% of UK GDP.

    Lets kill it off just as it is under threat from Saudi, why not?
    Taxing transfers more wouldn't kill it off either.

    I'm suspicious of BigG's plan, but we shouldn't exaggerate the downsides either.
    50% tax? So to buy a player from a German club which wants to receive £20m a Prem club has to pay £40m? Yes, that kills off the Premier League as the number one global football club competition within 5 years.
    The qualifier changes the statement. Knocks it off number 1? Agreed. "Kills it off" unqualified? Disagree.
    But these things live off the network effect. Apple without continued global dominance could quickly become Blackberry.
  • Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:


    Jeremy Corbyn
    @jeremycorbyn
    What's more "extreme":

    Believing that children should have enough food to eat?

    Or refusing to tax the super-rich while 4.2 million kids live in poverty?

    Good morning

    He's right and start by impossible a 50% tax on all football transfers
    Why football transfers? We should be careful not just to target that which is highly visible. Football probably isn't a main driver of the problems we have in this country so targeting it would probably fall into the "useless populism" category.
    Over 1 billion would have been raised in the last transfer window
    Assuming the economic activity continued in the same way given the existence of said tax
    Premier League is linked to about 100k full time jobs, 0.5% of all UK tax and 0.3% of UK GDP.

    Lets kill it off just as it is under threat from Saudi, why not?
    I find that astonishing - any links? Each prem club would have a few hundred max, surely?
    "linked to" means all sorts of stuff, tightly related or possibly tangential. Pubs showing games, hotels, transport, merch and retailers, whatever.
    And how many were linked to the old Division 1?
    "The number of club-related jobs has increased from 11,000 in 1998/99 to more than 87,000 in 2019/20, a rise of 650 per cent."

    https://www.premierleague.com/news/2434933
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,023
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    That’s deeply suboptimal. I mean, c'mon, he couldn’t win as the incumbent without indictments

    How? Hasn't his polling improved since he's been indicted.

    The Dems have left it too late to dump Biden now so they are stuck with Abe Simpson. The best they can hope for is that he drops dead about 3 weeks before polling day and Harris gets in on a wave of sympathy and confusion.
    Trump: At the moment there's the prospect of him running at the same time as fighting to stay out of jail. If this is replaced by the reality of it, the trials happening, the election coming closer, rally then court, rally then court, sordid revelations, defence creaking under forensic scrutiny, tv moments, people turning stooly on him, etc, this will gnaw at his numbers and they'll fall away to a level where he can't win. That's what I see happening if he's the candidate.

    Biden: Everything points to him being the Dem candidate, I agree. I wonder what he'd do if the GOP don't go with Trump though. I mean, he's the Trump Slayer so if there's no Trump to slay and he's 81? Hmm. Interesting.
    On Biden, I get the impression he really enjoys being President in a way that has somewhat surprised even himself. That may sound a bit daft but, for all the physical frailties that sometimes come to the fore, it does appear to have given him something of a new lease of life. Some Presidents get worn down by the office but, frankly, he seems to thrive on it just on a personal level.

    I don't really think that's a good enough reason why he ought to stand - he promised to be a bridge to the future and has turned into a bit of a roadblock to the future. But the way he feels about the job is probably pretty important in terms of informing his actual decision on standing.
    Contrast with Trump who seemed utterly miserable as president. And utterly miserable afterwards. He's a very angry, unhappy old man.
    Indeed, I often wonder a bit why Trump wants to do a job that often seemed to make him miserable rather than playing golf and eating burgers until he dies. I guess the answer is he cannot cope with being known as a failed President, and also there are some pretty damned good reasons why he might want power over pardons.
    It’s interesting to consider the late Roman Republic, where staying in office with Imperium was required to protect yourself from the shit you did while in an office with Imperium. Said shit being done so that you could afford the bribes to get the next appointment/office

    Talk about riding the tiger.

    Such comparisons can be thought-provoking or amusing, but it's important to realise that political power is more dispersed and less hierarchical in modern democracies. The parallels you identify are real, as is the threat Trump poses to democracy, but it's much likelier he will fail and die than succeed, and there's no chance at all he'll be regarded as a new Caesar
    I’m actually thinking more of characters like Milo and Clodius.

    Caesar had phenomenal ability. In fact that was a big part of the problem.
    Clodius was impaled and Milo took a rock to the head.
    I'm content with either of these parallels.
    The damage they did was greasing the skids, for the next guy along to do more damage.
  • Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:


    Jeremy Corbyn
    @jeremycorbyn
    What's more "extreme":

    Believing that children should have enough food to eat?

    Or refusing to tax the super-rich while 4.2 million kids live in poverty?

    Good morning

    He's right and start by impossible a 50% tax on all football transfers
    Why football transfers? We should be careful not just to target that which is highly visible. Football probably isn't a main driver of the problems we have in this country so targeting it would probably fall into the "useless populism" category.
    Over 1 billion would have been raised in the last transfer window
    Assuming the economic activity continued in the same way given the existence of said tax
    Premier League is linked to about 100k full time jobs, 5% of all UK tax and 3% of UK GDP.

    Lets kill it off just as it is under threat from Saudi, why not?
    Taxing transfers more wouldn't kill it off either.

    I'm suspicious of BigG's plan, but we shouldn't exaggerate the downsides either.
    50% tax? So to buy a player from a German club which wants to receive £20m a Prem club has to pay £40m? Yes, that kills off the Premier League as the number one global football club competition within 5 years.
    The qualifier changes the statement. Knocks it off number 1? Agreed. "Kills it off" unqualified? Disagree.
    But these things live off the network effect. Apple without continued global dominance could quickly become Blackberry.
    Yes and no. Network effects etc. yes I agree. But the PL would still exist under the regime BigG mentions (and which, to be clear again, I don't support!). People still go in large numbers to, say, Championship games. Supporting a club isn't something people change as readily as they change phone brands.
    Blackberry still exist too, but they don't pay anywhere near as much tax as they used to.....
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,150

    Stocky said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fishing said:

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    From September 15, British expats in Spain may need to ditch their UK-issued driving licences for a Spanish one.
    https://www.gbnews.com/lifestyle/british-expats-driving-licence-changes-spain-2665089823

    GB News is popular with expats on the Costas, apparently.

    Is this just another one where our Conservative Government dropped the equality ball?

    Here's the equivalent term for Italy - UK Residents in Italy get their licences recognised for one year after gaining Residency, and can just exchange it for a limited period of 5 years if expired; Italian Residents in UK get their licences recognised until expiry date in Italy, and can exchange it here forever with no test.

    Whereas a United Kingdom driving licence, as long as it has not expired, remains
    valid for the purposes of driving in the territory of the Italian Republic for one year
    after the date of acquisition of the holder's residence in the territory of the Italian
    Republic,
    Whereas an Italian driving licence remains valid for the purposes of driving in the
    territory of the United Kingdom until its expiry date even after the holder has
    acquired residence in the territory of the United Kingdom


    See clause 2:
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1128283/CS_UK_Italy_1.2023_Mutual_Recognition_Driving_Licences.pdf

    This raises yet another red flag for me on road safety grounds.
    The catch in Italy is that after six months you need to re register your British plated car, though.
    Given the standard of driving I just observed in two weeks in Italy I'm amazed we recognise their licenses at all.
    It must be the Italian driving test that’s to blame. They just sit the student down, give him or her the mission to get past the vehicle in front, and if they make it, they pass.
    A quip? "Driven by Italians".

    Here's a video clip put out by the Black Belt Barrister yesterday about everyday driving in the UK. Driver reversed down a country lane chasing a cyclist he had close passed who had shouted "Watch Out", so out of control / not looking than he forced a quadbike off the road and ran over a dog.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3LB7Ri7-xg

    North Yorks Police "No traffic offences committed", "The Driver probably wanted to talk". Apart I'd say from Careless Driving or Dangerous Driving, whatever the offence is on reversing, and several others. Various non motoring offences too, starting with common assault.
    I haven't seen the clip but at the margins you can see the mechanism by which this happens.

    Cyclist going at 20-25mph doing a time, so doesn't pull over to let the driver past, and nor do they heel over to the side of the road to give space, because of their line, so the driver is basically blocked. The driver gets increasingly frustrated and then when an opportunity to overtake arises - at a closeness less than ideal - the cyclist shouts out, somewhat pompously to the driver, and this triggers a rage in the car driver.

    I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.
    Maybe you should watch the clip before commenting. You didn't even know what direction each were traveling in (it wasn't an overtake). The cyclist did nothing wrong. The cyclist had nowhere to go. The driver was irresponsible. He could have killed the cyclist who could do nothing to avoid what happened as it was head on. The cyclist response was restrained. The driver then suffered from road rage and as a consequence caused the death of a dog. It could easily have been the quad bike rider killed with him reversing at that speed on a narrow lane.

    But yes don't look at the video and comment with no evidence whatsoever and blame the cyclist.
    I might add also if the incident had been as Casino thought he also doesn't know his highway code regarding cyclists. Cyclists should not 'pull over' or 'heel over'. To do so is dangerous. Quote the code:

    "The 2022 Highway Code no longer asks for cyclists to stay on the left side of the road – or, indeed, to use any provided cycle lanes. Instead, cyclists are told to ride “no less than half a metre” from the kerb or verge. This places a greater responsibility on motorists to overtake cyclists safely."

    Motorists also have to leave a 1.5 metre gap, or greater if over 30mph. Some of these rules don't apply in slow moving traffic.

    And cyclists shout out because they have been really scared by these incidents. It is not pomposity when you have been nearly swiped by a wing mirror, it is bloody scary.
    Let's assume that the dog survived but will incur very expensive vet fees. Who pays?

    The driver hasn't been charged with anything (despite the ridiculous and illegal reversing).

    Going back in time, what alternative actions would have resulted in no harm to the dog?:

    1) the cyclist didn't shout at the driver
    2) the driver didn't reverse
    3) the quadbike rider had tethered his dog

    Any of these would have saved the dog.

    So who pays?
    The Kuga is video'd driving backwards for a reckless and illegal distance. Were I the quad bike driver and providing that it was licensed for road use, perhaps sue the driver for the costs.

    They may not be charging him. But the video evidence is unambiguous, the law is clear, and in a civil case the bar is lower...
    Not seen the video so not commenting on that, but reversing a long way is a great way to burn out your clutch and lead to hefty repair bills so a stupid idea unless necessary anyway.
    Where do you get that idea from? It's a gear just like first. So long as you fully let the clutch in, it won’t slip any more in reverse than forwards.
    Some cars have fairly phuny little reverse idlers in the gearbox and flooring them backwards for miles might not improve things (series landrovers are like that, certainly the earlier ones - I think they improved it in the later series 3 boxes).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,023

    Nigelb said:

    Kim sensibly takes the train to visit Putin.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-66757311

    No doubt will also stay on the ground floor when he arrives.

    You can still hurt yourself falling out of a window on the ground floor…
    Especially if you fall out of it repeatedly. And accidentally get eaten by Putin's Bully XL which just so happened to be outside the window and hungry.
    The lack of variety in the Putin regime's murders is lamentable.

    “General trampled to death by extinct species of rhino, on his bathroom ceiling” - that would show some imagination, at least.
  • Tech stuff update. Transition from the hated Microsoft to the hated Apple has been a huge success. Still some things I keep getting wrong in MacOS, a few "why doesn't it do that" questions, but is has been significantly more robust than Windows11. And the Macbook 14 hardware is both beautiful and robust.

    So for the first time ever I am awaiting the Apple event later today. A business requirement for a new phone (and to invest before our September year end) means I will be jumping straight onto the new iPhone as a pre-order. Which is about as fanboi as it gets.
  • Unemployment up significantly in the UK might mean we have seen the peak of interest rate rises.
  • Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:


    Jeremy Corbyn
    @jeremycorbyn
    What's more "extreme":

    Believing that children should have enough food to eat?

    Or refusing to tax the super-rich while 4.2 million kids live in poverty?

    Good morning

    He's right and start by impossible a 50% tax on all football transfers
    Why football transfers? We should be careful not just to target that which is highly visible. Football probably isn't a main driver of the problems we have in this country so targeting it would probably fall into the "useless populism" category.
    Over 1 billion would have been raised in the last transfer window
    Assuming the economic activity continued in the same way given the existence of said tax
    Premier League is linked to about 100k full time jobs, 5% of all UK tax and 3% of UK GDP.

    Lets kill it off just as it is under threat from Saudi, why not?
    Taxing transfers more wouldn't kill it off either.

    I'm suspicious of BigG's plan, but we shouldn't exaggerate the downsides either.
    50% tax? So to buy a player from a German club which wants to receive £20m a Prem club has to pay £40m? Yes, that kills off the Premier League as the number one global football club competition within 5 years.
    The qualifier changes the statement. Knocks it off number 1? Agreed. "Kills it off" unqualified? Disagree.
    But these things live off the network effect. Apple without continued global dominance could quickly become Blackberry.
    Yes and no. Network effects etc. yes I agree. But the PL would still exist under the regime BigG mentions (and which, to be clear again, I don't support!). People still go in large numbers to, say, Championship games. Supporting a club isn't something people change as readily as they change phone brands.
    Blackberry still exist too, but they don't pay anywhere near as much tax as they used to.....
    Yes, and that's my point to BigG: increasing tax to a punitive level can often shrivel the underlying business, so reducing tax. But that doesn't mean it'll kill the business completely. The PL would survive.
    Ok look, by kill it off I didn't mean every Premier League club would be bankrupt within 5 years, nor did I mean that it would kill dead anyone working at a Premier League club......it is a well established turn of phrase that includes significant sustained damage.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    That’s deeply suboptimal. I mean, c'mon, he couldn’t win as the incumbent without indictments

    How? Hasn't his polling improved since he's been indicted.

    The Dems have left it too late to dump Biden now so they are stuck with Abe Simpson. The best they can hope for is that he drops dead about 3 weeks before polling day and Harris gets in on a wave of sympathy and confusion.
    Trump: At the moment there's the prospect of him running at the same time as fighting to stay out of jail. If this is replaced by the reality of it, the trials happening, the election coming closer, rally then court, rally then court, sordid revelations, defence creaking under forensic scrutiny, tv moments, people turning stooly on him, etc, this will gnaw at his numbers and they'll fall away to a level where he can't win. That's what I see happening if he's the candidate.

    Biden: Everything points to him being the Dem candidate, I agree. I wonder what he'd do if the GOP don't go with Trump though. I mean, he's the Trump Slayer so if there's no Trump to slay and he's 81? Hmm. Interesting.
    On Biden, I get the impression he really enjoys being President in a way that has somewhat surprised even himself. That may sound a bit daft but, for all the physical frailties that sometimes come to the fore, it does appear to have given him something of a new lease of life. Some Presidents get worn down by the office but, frankly, he seems to thrive on it just on a personal level.

    I don't really think that's a good enough reason why he ought to stand - he promised to be a bridge to the future and has turned into a bit of a roadblock to the future. But the way he feels about the job is probably pretty important in terms of informing his actual decision on standing.
    Contrast with Trump who seemed utterly miserable as president. And utterly miserable afterwards. He's a very angry, unhappy old man.
    Indeed, I often wonder a bit why Trump wants to do a job that often seemed to make him miserable rather than playing golf and eating burgers until he dies. I guess the answer is he cannot cope with being known as a failed President, and also there are some pretty damned good reasons why he might want power over pardons.
    It’s interesting to consider the late Roman Republic, where staying in office with Imperium was required to protect yourself from the shit you did while in an office with Imperium. Said shit being done so that you could afford the bribes to get the next appointment/office

    Talk about riding the tiger.

    Such comparisons can be thought-provoking or amusing, but it's important to realise that political power is more dispersed and less hierarchical in modern democracies. The parallels you identify are real, as is the threat Trump poses to democracy, but it's much likelier he will fail and die than succeed, and there's no chance at all he'll be regarded as a new Caesar
    I’m actually thinking more of characters like Milo and Clodius.

    Caesar had phenomenal ability. In fact that was a big part of the problem.
    Clodius was impaled and Milo took a rock to the head.
    I'm content with either of these parallels.
    The damage they did was greasing the skids, for the next guy along to do more damage.
    I think we also need to look at the legacies of "normal" politicians and what those impacts led to.

    Take drone strike policy - Bush Jr was doing it without any granted authority or process, just the basis that the President can do that and he wanted some people dead. So the Obama administration (instead of rejecting the power to summarily execute people, including American citizens, with the press of a button) set up a system whereby the weight of that choice was on the President. And that would always be fine as long as the President was thoughtful and looked at the evidence and was willing to weigh the value of human life against the risk of threat. And then Trump came in and was all like "why can't we just nuke people, what's the point of big bombs if we can't use them" and suddenly he had this entire apparatus, pre built, to allow him to just kill whoever.

    PFI - it "made sense" to have the private sector involved in building infrastructure because "public sector spending bad", so Blair spend tonnes of money putting the public sector into massive debt, spaffed a load of money away to private firms that overcharged and underdelivered, and resulted in shitty infrastructure. Now, that chicken comes home to roost as we realise loads of public infrastructure could potentially fall over and kill kids, and this shower get the blame, also because their response was awful, and they still also believe the nonsense that "public sector spending bad".

    Obama, Blair, Bush Jr all fine to walk away fine and dandy, go make millions either lobbying or on the speaking racket. Their crimes were acceptable crimes, that just happened to leave the path open for maybe less acceptable crimes when someone brash and stupid stumbles into the role.
  • Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. Pioneers, I'm sure Eagles of Borg will be glad that you've been assimilated ;)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,700
    148grss said:

    Sean_F said:

    .

    Sean_F said:

    On topic, I struggle to see how many votes Trump can pick up over his total last time. If you didn't vote for him then, why would you vote for him now?

    So we're back to Biden's tally and how far that could fall. In 2020 voting Biden was something done to stop Trump. With Trump being madder and badder than last time I can't see how that driver dissipates much.

    So we're looking for disillusioned democrats prepared to risk Trump. Or the people who came out to vote to stop Trump who usually don't deciding it doesn't matter this time.

    A lot Americans dislike Biden, as indeed, many dislike Trump.
    Indeed - I identified that when I mentioned disillusioned democrats.

    Biden and the entire Democrat party are not what I would want. But when the alternative is worse? Trump winning would end the existing democratic model which is on its knees awaiting either execution or salvation.

    Biden may not be great. But he isn't pledging to make political arrests of people who disagree with him.
    The prospect of a Trump win is alarming, and the likelihood of it is underrated on this side of the pond.
    Yeah - I'd say it's basically a coin flip, which isn't great...
    He should be evens for the presidency? No way.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,491

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. Pioneers, I'm sure Eagles of Borg will be glad that you've been assimilated ;)

    Very few people ever regret switching from Windows to MacOS.
  • Mr. Pointer, and no drone ever asked to leave their cube :p
  • Farooq said:

    Farooq said:


    Jeremy Corbyn
    @jeremycorbyn
    What's more "extreme":

    Believing that children should have enough food to eat?

    Or refusing to tax the super-rich while 4.2 million kids live in poverty?

    Good morning

    He's right and start by impossible a 50% tax on all football transfers
    Why football transfers? We should be careful not just to target that which is highly visible. Football probably isn't a main driver of the problems we have in this country so targeting it would probably fall into the "useless populism" category.
    Over 1 billion would have been raised in the last transfer window
    Assuming the economic activity continued in the same way given the existence of said tax
    Premier League is linked to about 100k full time jobs, 5% of all UK tax and 3% of UK GDP.

    Lets kill it off just as it is under threat from Saudi, why not?
    Lets work on the basis that clubs need to be at least in significant part be owned by the community. Like in Germany. That removes most of the foreign money out of the game and kills it off like in Germany (?)

    Lets then work on the basis that regardless of what rules we put in place on transfer fees (a tax, a cap, a community tithe etc), the greediest stards will go off to play in Saudi or China or whichever market is paying £gonzo fees.

    Players who want to play in a globally significant league will stay. Stards will join HeadChoppers United. But we can take so much of the lunatic cash out of the game and root it to the community without killing it. Like Germany have.
    Economic impacts of the Bundesliga here:

    https://www.mckinsey.de/~/media/mckinsey/locations/europe and middle east/deutschland/news/presse/2020/2020-09-21 bundesliga/2020_unternehmen bundesliga_englisch.pdf

    Similar levels of tax and jobs. There are definitely things that could be learnt from each other in both directions.
  • kinabalu said:

    148grss said:

    Sean_F said:

    .

    Sean_F said:

    On topic, I struggle to see how many votes Trump can pick up over his total last time. If you didn't vote for him then, why would you vote for him now?

    So we're back to Biden's tally and how far that could fall. In 2020 voting Biden was something done to stop Trump. With Trump being madder and badder than last time I can't see how that driver dissipates much.

    So we're looking for disillusioned democrats prepared to risk Trump. Or the people who came out to vote to stop Trump who usually don't deciding it doesn't matter this time.

    A lot Americans dislike Biden, as indeed, many dislike Trump.
    Indeed - I identified that when I mentioned disillusioned democrats.

    Biden and the entire Democrat party are not what I would want. But when the alternative is worse? Trump winning would end the existing democratic model which is on its knees awaiting either execution or salvation.

    Biden may not be great. But he isn't pledging to make political arrests of people who disagree with him.
    The prospect of a Trump win is alarming, and the likelihood of it is underrated on this side of the pond.
    Yeah - I'd say it's basically a coin flip, which isn't great...
    He should be evens for the presidency? No way.
    It will come down to the economy. Biden needs some economic cheer.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,491
    148grss said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    That’s deeply suboptimal. I mean, c'mon, he couldn’t win as the incumbent without indictments

    How? Hasn't his polling improved since he's been indicted.

    The Dems have left it too late to dump Biden now so they are stuck with Abe Simpson. The best they can hope for is that he drops dead about 3 weeks before polling day and Harris gets in on a wave of sympathy and confusion.
    Trump: At the moment there's the prospect of him running at the same time as fighting to stay out of jail. If this is replaced by the reality of it, the trials happening, the election coming closer, rally then court, rally then court, sordid revelations, defence creaking under forensic scrutiny, tv moments, people turning stooly on him, etc, this will gnaw at his numbers and they'll fall away to a level where he can't win. That's what I see happening if he's the candidate.

    Biden: Everything points to him being the Dem candidate, I agree. I wonder what he'd do if the GOP don't go with Trump though. I mean, he's the Trump Slayer so if there's no Trump to slay and he's 81? Hmm. Interesting.
    On Biden, I get the impression he really enjoys being President in a way that has somewhat surprised even himself. That may sound a bit daft but, for all the physical frailties that sometimes come to the fore, it does appear to have given him something of a new lease of life. Some Presidents get worn down by the office but, frankly, he seems to thrive on it just on a personal level.

    I don't really think that's a good enough reason why he ought to stand - he promised to be a bridge to the future and has turned into a bit of a roadblock to the future. But the way he feels about the job is probably pretty important in terms of informing his actual decision on standing.
    Contrast with Trump who seemed utterly miserable as president. And utterly miserable afterwards. He's a very angry, unhappy old man.
    Indeed, I often wonder a bit why Trump wants to do a job that often seemed to make him miserable rather than playing golf and eating burgers until he dies. I guess the answer is he cannot cope with being known as a failed President, and also there are some pretty damned good reasons why he might want power over pardons.
    It’s interesting to consider the late Roman Republic, where staying in office with Imperium was required to protect yourself from the shit you did while in an office with Imperium. Said shit being done so that you could afford the bribes to get the next appointment/office

    Talk about riding the tiger.

    Such comparisons can be thought-provoking or amusing, but it's important to realise that political power is more dispersed and less hierarchical in modern democracies. The parallels you identify are real, as is the threat Trump poses to democracy, but it's much likelier he will fail and die than succeed, and there's no chance at all he'll be regarded as a new Caesar
    I’m actually thinking more of characters like Milo and Clodius.

    Caesar had phenomenal ability. In fact that was a big part of the problem.
    Clodius was impaled and Milo took a rock to the head.
    I'm content with either of these parallels.
    The damage they did was greasing the skids, for the next guy along to do more damage.
    I think we also need to look at the legacies of "normal" politicians and what those impacts led to.

    Take drone strike policy - Bush Jr was doing it without any granted authority or process, just the basis that the President can do that and he wanted some people dead. So the Obama administration (instead of rejecting the power to summarily execute people, including American citizens, with the press of a button) set up a system whereby the weight of that choice was on the President. And that would always be fine as long as the President was thoughtful and looked at the evidence and was willing to weigh the value of human life against the risk of threat. And then Trump came in and was all like "why can't we just nuke people, what's the point of big bombs if we can't use them" and suddenly he had this entire apparatus, pre built, to allow him to just kill whoever.

    PFI - it "made sense" to have the private sector involved in building infrastructure because "public sector spending bad", so Blair spend tonnes of money putting the public sector into massive debt, spaffed a load of money away to private firms that overcharged and underdelivered, and resulted in shitty infrastructure. Now, that chicken comes home to roost as we realise loads of public infrastructure could potentially fall over and kill kids, and this shower get the blame, also because their response was awful, and they still also believe the nonsense that "public sector spending bad".

    Obama, Blair, Bush Jr all fine to walk away fine and dandy, go make millions either lobbying or on the speaking racket. Their crimes were acceptable crimes, that just happened to leave the path open for maybe less acceptable crimes when someone brash and stupid stumbles into the role.
    I am no support of PFI (far from it) but it was not responsible for RAAC, which predated PFI by some years.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,491

    Mr. Pointer, and no drone ever asked to leave their cube :p

    Lol, stick with Windows if it makes you feel 'freer' - it's your loss.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,523

    Mr. Pointer, and no drone ever asked to leave their cube :p

    Lol, stick with Windows if it makes you feel 'freer' - it's your loss.
    If you want 'freer', I don't think either Windows or MacOS fit the bill...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,491

    Nigelb said:

    Kim sensibly takes the train to visit Putin.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-66757311

    No doubt will also stay on the ground floor when he arrives.

    You can still hurt yourself falling out of a window on the ground floor…
    Especially if you fall out of it repeatedly. And accidentally get eaten by Putin's Bully XL which just so happened to be outside the window and hungry.
    The lack of variety in the Putin regime's murders is lamentable.

    “General trampled to death by extinct species of rhino, on his bathroom ceiling” - that would show some imagination, at least.
    Die falling in through the window - that would show 'em.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,644
    Sean_F said:

    .

    Sean_F said:

    On topic, I struggle to see how many votes Trump can pick up over his total last time. If you didn't vote for him then, why would you vote for him now?

    So we're back to Biden's tally and how far that could fall. In 2020 voting Biden was something done to stop Trump. With Trump being madder and badder than last time I can't see how that driver dissipates much.

    So we're looking for disillusioned democrats prepared to risk Trump. Or the people who came out to vote to stop Trump who usually don't deciding it doesn't matter this time.

    A lot Americans dislike Biden, as indeed, many dislike Trump.
    Indeed - I identified that when I mentioned disillusioned democrats.

    Biden and the entire Democrat party are not what I would want. But when the alternative is worse? Trump winning would end the existing democratic model which is on its knees awaiting either execution or salvation.

    Biden may not be great. But he isn't pledging to make political arrests of people who disagree with him.
    The prospect of a Trump win is alarming, and the likelihood of it is underrated on this side of the pond.
    The Democrats need to ditch Biden. Where is the urgency?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,351
    edited September 2023

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    That’s deeply suboptimal. I mean, c'mon, he couldn’t win as the incumbent without indictments

    How? Hasn't his polling improved since he's been indicted.

    The Dems have left it too late to dump Biden now so they are stuck with Abe Simpson. The best they can hope for is that he drops dead about 3 weeks before polling day and Harris gets in on a wave of sympathy and confusion.
    Trump: At the moment there's the prospect of him running at the same time as fighting to stay out of jail. If this is replaced by the reality of it, the trials happening, the election coming closer, rally then court, rally then court, sordid revelations, defence creaking under forensic scrutiny, tv moments, people turning stooly on him, etc, this will gnaw at his numbers and they'll fall away to a level where he can't win. That's what I see happening if he's the candidate.

    Biden: Everything points to him being the Dem candidate, I agree. I wonder what he'd do if the GOP don't go with Trump though. I mean, he's the Trump Slayer so if there's no Trump to slay and he's 81? Hmm. Interesting.
    On Biden, I get the impression he really enjoys being President in a way that has somewhat surprised even himself. That may sound a bit daft but, for all the physical frailties that sometimes come to the fore, it does appear to have given him something of a new lease of life. Some Presidents get worn down by the office but, frankly, he seems to thrive on it just on a personal level.

    I don't really think that's a good enough reason why he ought to stand - he promised to be a bridge to the future and has turned into a bit of a roadblock to the future. But the way he feels about the job is probably pretty important in terms of informing his actual decision on standing.
    Contrast with Trump who seemed utterly miserable as president. And utterly miserable afterwards. He's a very angry, unhappy old man.
    Indeed, I often wonder a bit why Trump wants to do a job that often seemed to make him miserable rather than playing golf and eating burgers until he dies. I guess the answer is he cannot cope with being known as a failed President, and also there are some pretty damned good reasons why he might want power over pardons.
    Trump as President gets to do two key things:
    1 Pardon anyone so far indicted by the government
    2 Issue political arrest warrants against anyone who has gone after the people in camp 1. Including the people in states like Georgia who are going after him.

    Don't say "he won't do 2". He will. And he's already telling people he will. And he will have the support of others already in positions of authority who will direct the actual arrests.

    Does this remind anyone of the Nazis? It should. Time we actually talk about American Fascism in the form of DJT and his supporters in the RNC.
    a - What is a "political arrest warrant" and does the US President have the power to issue one?

    b - The President cannot pardon people for crimes under State Law, which is I think more than half of the indictments he faces - including the new Fraud and Tax Evasion and similar charges by the New York DA.

    Some NY charges are coming under summary Judgement not jury trials . Attempts to transfer the cases to Federal Courts are not working and will not work because they do not meet the necessary conditions.

    c - Some of these are coming to trial before he gets anywhere near the Presidency. I think the first is in October this year.

    Yes - the GOP activities do remind me of the Nazi manipulations of the German system.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,824

    Unemployment up significantly in the UK might mean we have seen the peak of interest rate rises.

    I'd love to know why you're so anti-British.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,491

    Mr. Pointer, and no drone ever asked to leave their cube :p

    Lol, stick with Windows if it makes you feel 'freer' - it's your loss.
    If you want 'freer', I don't think either Windows or MacOS fit the bill...
    When it comes to personal IT I want reliability, ease of use, security, longevity, and performance. I leave the paranoia about Big Brother tracking my life to Pagan et al.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,491
    Andy_JS said:

    Unemployment up significantly in the UK might mean we have seen the peak of interest rate rises.

    I'd love to know why you're so anti-British.
    A peak in interest rates is a good thing, no?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,150
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:


    Jeremy Corbyn
    @jeremycorbyn
    What's more "extreme":

    Believing that children should have enough food to eat?

    Or refusing to tax the super-rich while 4.2 million kids live in poverty?

    Good morning

    He's right and start by impossible a 50% tax on all football transfers
    Why football transfers? We should be careful not just to target that which is highly visible. Football probably isn't a main driver of the problems we have in this country so targeting it would probably fall into the "useless populism" category.
    Over 1 billion would have been raised in the last transfer window
    Assuming the economic activity continued in the same way given the existence of said tax
    Premier League is linked to about 100k full time jobs, 5% of all UK tax and 3% of UK GDP.

    Lets kill it off just as it is under threat from Saudi, why not?
    Taxing transfers more wouldn't kill it off either.

    I'm suspicious of BigG's plan, but we shouldn't exaggerate the downsides either.
    50% tax? So to buy a player from a German club which wants to receive £20m a Prem club has to pay £40m? Yes, that kills off the Premier League as the number one global football club competition within 5 years.
    The qualifier changes the statement. Knocks it off number 1? Agreed. "Kills it off" unqualified? Disagree.
    But these things live off the network effect. Apple without continued global dominance could quickly become Blackberry.
    Yes and no. Network effects etc. yes I agree. But the PL would still exist under the regime BigG mentions (and which, to be clear again, I don't support!). People still go in large numbers to, say, Championship games. Supporting a club isn't something people change as readily as they change phone brands.
    Blackberry still exist too, but they don't pay anywhere near as much tax as they used to.....
    Yes, and that's my point to BigG: increasing tax to a punitive level can often shrivel the underlying business, so reducing tax. But that doesn't mean it'll kill the business completely. The PL would survive.
    I am enjoying being back in the Championship. Games are much more even, less playacting and no VAR. Not so many superstars, and the quality on the ball is worse, but quite a positive trade off.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,410
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:


    Jeremy Corbyn
    @jeremycorbyn
    What's more "extreme":

    Believing that children should have enough food to eat?

    Or refusing to tax the super-rich while 4.2 million kids live in poverty?

    Good morning

    He's right and start by impossible a 50% tax on all football transfers
    Why football transfers? We should be careful not just to target that which is highly visible. Football probably isn't a main driver of the problems we have in this country so targeting it would probably fall into the "useless populism" category.
    Over 1 billion would have been raised in the last transfer window
    Assuming the economic activity continued in the same way given the existence of said tax
    Premier League is linked to about 100k full time jobs, 5% of all UK tax and 3% of UK GDP.

    Lets kill it off just as it is under threat from Saudi, why not?
    Taxing transfers more wouldn't kill it off either.

    I'm suspicious of BigG's plan, but we shouldn't exaggerate the downsides either.
    50% tax? So to buy a player from a German club which wants to receive £20m a Prem club has to pay £40m? Yes, that kills off the Premier League as the number one global football club competition within 5 years.
    The qualifier changes the statement. Knocks it off number 1? Agreed. "Kills it off" unqualified? Disagree.
    Is it a bad thing that the Premier League is no longer the number one league in the world? Who would lose out? Personally I enjoyed football far more when it was less global; the players in the league were likely to stay the players in the league, and transfers in and out of the country were a rarity. And more importantly, attending a game was affordable.
    I don't think anyone could seriously argue that fans of clubs in the German league or Spanish league have it worse than we do as a result of their leagues not being the number one global league.
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,940
    Andy_JS said:

    Unemployment up significantly in the UK might mean we have seen the peak of interest rate rises.

    I'd love to know why you're so anti-British.
    Plus further interest rate increases are required according to one of the so-called MPC Hawks, irrespective of the short term consequences.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/bank-rate-setter-warns-further-interest-rate-rises-needed-to-crush-inflation/ar-AA1gzme7
  • Mr. Pointer, I don't care either way, really, though tech fanboyism (I know neither you nor Mr. Pioneers are guilty of this, though Mr. Eagles certainly is) just seems daft to me.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,109
    edited September 2023

    Sean_F said:

    .

    Sean_F said:

    On topic, I struggle to see how many votes Trump can pick up over his total last time. If you didn't vote for him then, why would you vote for him now?

    So we're back to Biden's tally and how far that could fall. In 2020 voting Biden was something done to stop Trump. With Trump being madder and badder than last time I can't see how that driver dissipates much.

    So we're looking for disillusioned democrats prepared to risk Trump. Or the people who came out to vote to stop Trump who usually don't deciding it doesn't matter this time.

    A lot Americans dislike Biden, as indeed, many dislike Trump.
    Indeed - I identified that when I mentioned disillusioned democrats.

    Biden and the entire Democrat party are not what I would want. But when the alternative is worse? Trump winning would end the existing democratic model which is on its knees awaiting either execution or salvation.

    Biden may not be great. But he isn't pledging to make political arrests of people who disagree with him.
    The prospect of a Trump win is alarming, and the likelihood of it is underrated on this side of the pond.
    The Democrats need to ditch Biden. Where is the urgency?
    Isn't this similar to the discussion on Sunak yesterday? Simply saying the party would have better prospects by switching standard bearer (leaving aside the arguments that they may not, in fact, have better prospects) isn't enough. You need to think about who the credible opponents are and whether it's in their interest to risk it given it's not going to be easy to dislodge him AND win the subsequent general election, or sit this one out.

    The comparisons only go so far, of course. In particular, current polls give Sunak (and any Tory leader) a mountain to climb, whereas Trump/Biden polls (and also generic party voting polls) suggest a close contest in the US and indeed Biden is betting favourite (although arguably his odds are too short).
  • Mr. Pointer, and no drone ever asked to leave their cube :p

    Lol, stick with Windows if it makes you feel 'freer' - it's your loss.
    If you want 'freer', I don't think either Windows or MacOS fit the bill...
    Windows OS and Microsoft products are the default choice for so many businesses. Which is how they have managed to become so bloated, expensive and faffy to deal with.

    I genuinely like ChromeOS, and for a couple of years ran entirely on a Chromebook. Then a client requirement to start running phys versions of Microsoft applications meant having to go back to Windows.

    18 months on and I've banished it again. Whatever issues there are with Apple - and there are many many issues - it is not really any different to the issues with Microsoft.

    As for the phone switch about to happen, 2 reasons. One, may as well enjoy the benefits of operating inside an ecosystem (as I did for 2 happy years with Google). Two, Google's shift to its own Tensor chip has been Bad. Pixel 6 Pro still has meltdown incidents where the chip decides to overheat and fiercely burn the battery. I don't do skinned Android OS (so no thank you BloatSung), so screw it, lets get an iPhone.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,875
    148grss said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    That’s deeply suboptimal. I mean, c'mon, he couldn’t win as the incumbent without indictments

    How? Hasn't his polling improved since he's been indicted.

    The Dems have left it too late to dump Biden now so they are stuck with Abe Simpson. The best they can hope for is that he drops dead about 3 weeks before polling day and Harris gets in on a wave of sympathy and confusion.
    Trump: At the moment there's the prospect of him running at the same time as fighting to stay out of jail. If this is replaced by the reality of it, the trials happening, the election coming closer, rally then court, rally then court, sordid revelations, defence creaking under forensic scrutiny, tv moments, people turning stooly on him, etc, this will gnaw at his numbers and they'll fall away to a level where he can't win. That's what I see happening if he's the candidate.

    Biden: Everything points to him being the Dem candidate, I agree. I wonder what he'd do if the GOP don't go with Trump though. I mean, he's the Trump Slayer so if there's no Trump to slay and he's 81? Hmm. Interesting.
    On Biden, I get the impression he really enjoys being President in a way that has somewhat surprised even himself. That may sound a bit daft but, for all the physical frailties that sometimes come to the fore, it does appear to have given him something of a new lease of life. Some Presidents get worn down by the office but, frankly, he seems to thrive on it just on a personal level.

    I don't really think that's a good enough reason why he ought to stand - he promised to be a bridge to the future and has turned into a bit of a roadblock to the future. But the way he feels about the job is probably pretty important in terms of informing his actual decision on standing.
    Contrast with Trump who seemed utterly miserable as president. And utterly miserable afterwards. He's a very angry, unhappy old man.
    Indeed, I often wonder a bit why Trump wants to do a job that often seemed to make him miserable rather than playing golf and eating burgers until he dies. I guess the answer is he cannot cope with being known as a failed President, and also there are some pretty damned good reasons why he might want power over pardons.
    It’s interesting to consider the late Roman Republic, where staying in office with Imperium was required to protect yourself from the shit you did while in an office with Imperium. Said shit being done so that you could afford the bribes to get the next appointment/office

    Talk about riding the tiger.

    Such comparisons can be thought-provoking or amusing, but it's important to realise that political power is more dispersed and less hierarchical in modern democracies. The parallels you identify are real, as is the threat Trump poses to democracy, but it's much likelier he will fail and die than succeed, and there's no chance at all he'll be regarded as a new Caesar
    I’m actually thinking more of characters like Milo and Clodius.

    Caesar had phenomenal ability. In fact that was a big part of the problem.
    Clodius was impaled and Milo took a rock to the head.
    I'm content with either of these parallels.
    The damage they did was greasing the skids, for the next guy along to do more damage.
    I think we also need to look at the legacies of "normal" politicians and what those impacts led to.

    Take drone strike policy - Bush Jr was doing it without any granted authority or process, just the basis that the President can do that and he wanted some people dead. So the Obama administration (instead of rejecting the power to summarily execute people, including American citizens, with the press of a button) set up a system whereby the weight of that choice was on the President. And that would always be fine as long as the President was thoughtful and looked at the evidence and was willing to weigh the value of human life against the risk of threat. And then Trump came in and was all like "why can't we just nuke people, what's the point of big bombs if we can't use them" and suddenly he had this entire apparatus, pre built, to allow him to just kill whoever.

    PFI - it "made sense" to have the private sector involved in building infrastructure because "public sector spending bad", so Blair spend tonnes of money putting the public sector into massive debt, spaffed a load of money away to private firms that overcharged and underdelivered, and resulted in shitty infrastructure. Now, that chicken comes home to roost as we realise loads of public infrastructure could potentially fall over and kill kids, and this shower get the blame, also because their response was awful, and they still also believe the nonsense that "public sector spending bad".

    Obama, Blair, Bush Jr all fine to walk away fine and dandy, go make millions either lobbying or on the speaking racket. Their crimes were acceptable crimes, that just happened to leave the path open for maybe less acceptable crimes when someone brash and stupid stumbles into the role.
    While I hear what you say, if you're President of the world's hegemonic state, summary execution of that state's enemies is something that comes with the territory.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Unemployment up significantly in the UK might mean we have seen the peak of interest rate rises.

    I'd love to know why you're so anti-British.
    I’m not “anti-British”, you twit.
    I’d quite like interest rates to level off, if not decline.

    It does appear the market is expecting another 0.25, however, and the Bank is making hawkish noises. It appears the British economy is not squealing enough quite yet.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,150
    Cookie said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:


    Jeremy Corbyn
    @jeremycorbyn
    What's more "extreme":

    Believing that children should have enough food to eat?

    Or refusing to tax the super-rich while 4.2 million kids live in poverty?

    Good morning

    He's right and start by impossible a 50% tax on all football transfers
    Why football transfers? We should be careful not just to target that which is highly visible. Football probably isn't a main driver of the problems we have in this country so targeting it would probably fall into the "useless populism" category.
    Over 1 billion would have been raised in the last transfer window
    Assuming the economic activity continued in the same way given the existence of said tax
    Premier League is linked to about 100k full time jobs, 5% of all UK tax and 3% of UK GDP.

    Lets kill it off just as it is under threat from Saudi, why not?
    Taxing transfers more wouldn't kill it off either.

    I'm suspicious of BigG's plan, but we shouldn't exaggerate the downsides either.
    50% tax? So to buy a player from a German club which wants to receive £20m a Prem club has to pay £40m? Yes, that kills off the Premier League as the number one global football club competition within 5 years.
    The qualifier changes the statement. Knocks it off number 1? Agreed. "Kills it off" unqualified? Disagree.
    Is it a bad thing that the Premier League is no longer the number one league in the world? Who would lose out? Personally I enjoyed football far more when it was less global; the players in the league were likely to stay the players in the league, and transfers in and out of the country were a rarity. And more importantly, attending a game was affordable.
    I don't think anyone could seriously argue that fans of clubs in the German league or Spanish league have it worse than we do as a result of their leagues not being the number one global league.
    When you look at safe standing in Germany, and the price of match tickets, there is an obvious attraction.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,523
    edited September 2023

    Mr. Pointer, and no drone ever asked to leave their cube :p

    Lol, stick with Windows if it makes you feel 'freer' - it's your loss.
    If you want 'freer', I don't think either Windows or MacOS fit the bill...
    When it comes to personal IT I want reliability, ease of use, security, longevity, and performance. I leave the paranoia about Big Brother tracking my life to Pagan et al.
    I mostly run Linux for computing requirements rather than paranoia, but I think there is at least some reason to take care over what happens to your data even if you don't buy into CIA conspiracies. That's part of 'security'.

    If you monitor what talks to who there are always a few nasty surprises.

    Anyway, currently considering whether 4 cores and 48Gb is enough or whether I need 16 cores and 128Gb. I'm not going to pay £4k+ for Mac hardware just because it is 'shiny'...
  • MattW said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    That’s deeply suboptimal. I mean, c'mon, he couldn’t win as the incumbent without indictments

    How? Hasn't his polling improved since he's been indicted.

    The Dems have left it too late to dump Biden now so they are stuck with Abe Simpson. The best they can hope for is that he drops dead about 3 weeks before polling day and Harris gets in on a wave of sympathy and confusion.
    Trump: At the moment there's the prospect of him running at the same time as fighting to stay out of jail. If this is replaced by the reality of it, the trials happening, the election coming closer, rally then court, rally then court, sordid revelations, defence creaking under forensic scrutiny, tv moments, people turning stooly on him, etc, this will gnaw at his numbers and they'll fall away to a level where he can't win. That's what I see happening if he's the candidate.

    Biden: Everything points to him being the Dem candidate, I agree. I wonder what he'd do if the GOP don't go with Trump though. I mean, he's the Trump Slayer so if there's no Trump to slay and he's 81? Hmm. Interesting.
    On Biden, I get the impression he really enjoys being President in a way that has somewhat surprised even himself. That may sound a bit daft but, for all the physical frailties that sometimes come to the fore, it does appear to have given him something of a new lease of life. Some Presidents get worn down by the office but, frankly, he seems to thrive on it just on a personal level.

    I don't really think that's a good enough reason why he ought to stand - he promised to be a bridge to the future and has turned into a bit of a roadblock to the future. But the way he feels about the job is probably pretty important in terms of informing his actual decision on standing.
    Contrast with Trump who seemed utterly miserable as president. And utterly miserable afterwards. He's a very angry, unhappy old man.
    Indeed, I often wonder a bit why Trump wants to do a job that often seemed to make him miserable rather than playing golf and eating burgers until he dies. I guess the answer is he cannot cope with being known as a failed President, and also there are some pretty damned good reasons why he might want power over pardons.
    Trump as President gets to do two key things:
    1 Pardon anyone so far indicted by the government
    2 Issue political arrest warrants against anyone who has gone after the people in camp 1. Including the people in states like Georgia who are going after him.

    Don't say "he won't do 2". He will. And he's already telling people he will. And he will have the support of others already in positions of authority who will direct the actual arrests.

    Does this remind anyone of the Nazis? It should. Time we actually talk about American Fascism in the form of DJT and his supporters in the RNC.
    a - What is a "political arrest warrant" and does the US President have the power to issue one?

    b - The President cannot pardon people for crimes under State Law, which is I think more than half of the indictments he faces - including the new Fraud and Tax Evasion and similar charges by the New York DA.

    Some NY charges are coming under summary Judgement not jury trials . Attempts to transfer the cases to Federal Courts are not working and will not work because they do not meet the necessary conditions.

    c - Some of these are coming to trial before he gets anywhere near the Presidency. I think the first is in October this year.

    Yes - the GOP activities do remind me of the Nazi manipulations of the German system.
    a) - I assume a presidential decree demanding that federal authorities arrest the named individuals. The president has all kinds of abilities to govern by decree, especially when the other parts of the government support him

    b) - pardon, no. Have the prosecutors arrested so that the charges are dropped? Yes.

    c) - I cannot see that Trump will go to jail for any of these, so he will be at liberty after any conviction to carry this out.

    As for the parallels with the NSDAP, that is how you ensure you can do what you want to do. Get enough people voted or appointed into key roles in key organisations, then take direct control.

    I know the American system want to soften the language and charge him under RICO laws. But this is bigger than Trump being a Mafia don. He wants to be a dictator. Not because he has a Hitlerite grand vision for his country. Because he is a petty despot.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Unemployment up significantly in the UK might mean we have seen the peak of interest rate rises.

    I'd love to know why you're so anti-British.
    Is it "anti-British" to report official government data?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,875
    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Unemployment up significantly in the UK might mean we have seen the peak of interest rate rises.

    I'd love to know why you're so anti-British.
    Plus further interest rate increases are required according to one of the so-called MPC Hawks, irrespective of the short term consequences.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/bank-rate-setter-warns-further-interest-rate-rises-needed-to-crush-inflation/ar-AA1gzme7
    One assumes that the Hawks are unaffected by the consequences of interest rate rises.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    That’s deeply suboptimal. I mean, c'mon, he couldn’t win as the incumbent without indictments

    How? Hasn't his polling improved since he's been indicted.

    The Dems have left it too late to dump Biden now so they are stuck with Abe Simpson. The best they can hope for is that he drops dead about 3 weeks before polling day and Harris gets in on a wave of sympathy and confusion.
    Trump: At the moment there's the prospect of him running at the same time as fighting to stay out of jail. If this is replaced by the reality of it, the trials happening, the election coming closer, rally then court, rally then court, sordid revelations, defence creaking under forensic scrutiny, tv moments, people turning stooly on him, etc, this will gnaw at his numbers and they'll fall away to a level where he can't win. That's what I see happening if he's the candidate.

    Biden: Everything points to him being the Dem candidate, I agree. I wonder what he'd do if the GOP don't go with Trump though. I mean, he's the Trump Slayer so if there's no Trump to slay and he's 81? Hmm. Interesting.
    On Biden, I get the impression he really enjoys being President in a way that has somewhat surprised even himself. That may sound a bit daft but, for all the physical frailties that sometimes come to the fore, it does appear to have given him something of a new lease of life. Some Presidents get worn down by the office but, frankly, he seems to thrive on it just on a personal level.

    I don't really think that's a good enough reason why he ought to stand - he promised to be a bridge to the future and has turned into a bit of a roadblock to the future. But the way he feels about the job is probably pretty important in terms of informing his actual decision on standing.
    Contrast with Trump who seemed utterly miserable as president. And utterly miserable afterwards. He's a very angry, unhappy old man.
    Indeed, I often wonder a bit why Trump wants to do a job that often seemed to make him miserable rather than playing golf and eating burgers until he dies. I guess the answer is he cannot cope with being known as a failed President, and also there are some pretty damned good reasons why he might want power over pardons.
    Trump as President gets to do two key things:
    1 Pardon anyone so far indicted by the government
    2 Issue political arrest warrants against anyone who has gone after the people in camp 1. Including the people in states like Georgia who are going after him.

    Don't say "he won't do 2". He will. And he's already telling people he will. And he will have the support of others already in positions of authority who will direct the actual arrests.

    The political arrest warrant will remove the immediate threat to himself and his allies, and with the pardon and release of so many proud patriots he has a militia ready to be formed in case he gets any resistance from law enforcement.

    The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs had a hair trigger mechanism in place for Trump's final days to remove him from the chain of command. To prevent POTUS from doing anything he liked. But he and others like him would be moved or arrested or both.

    Does this remind anyone of the Nazis? It should. Time we actually talk about American Fascism in the form of DJT and his supporters in the RNC.
    Interestingly if he is found guilty in Georgia he can't pardon himself, and even the governor has to go via a panel for pardons.

    But yes, if he is found guilty of federal charges he will do these things and it will be down to whether the GOP would vote to impeach him (lol) - and even if enough of them did that would likely lead to mass violence, in part egged on by those politicians who support Trump.

    The more difficult aspect will be the army and the police. The rank and file are probably more sympathetic to Trump than the officer class, and the higher up you get the less support for Trump I think you'll find - but the rank and file outnumber them. So if Trump is reelected and gives illegal / immoral orders - I don't know how the army or police would react.

    You are right about how this is very much the fascist playbook, as have many scholars of fascism and the holocaust specifically. Even the argument that Trump was just exercising his free speech is very similar to Hitler's defence for his crimes:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/PropagandaPosters/comments/kv3af4/1928_poster_of_hitler_with_tape_on_his_mouth/
  • Mr. Pointer, and no drone ever asked to leave their cube :p

    Lol, stick with Windows if it makes you feel 'freer' - it's your loss.
    If you want 'freer', I don't think either Windows or MacOS fit the bill...
    When it comes to personal IT I want reliability, ease of use, security, longevity, and performance. I leave the paranoia about Big Brother tracking my life to Pagan et al.
    I mostly run Linux for computing requirements rather than paranoia, but I think there is at least some reason to take care over what happens to your data even if you don't buy into CIA conspiracies. That's part of 'security'.

    If you monitor what talks to who there are always a few nasty surprises.

    Anyway, currently considering whether 4 cores and 48Gb is enough or whether I need 16 cores and 128Gb. I'm not going to pay £4k+ for Mac hardware just because it is 'shiny'...
    This MacBook has the fire-breathing 30-cores M2 Max chip and 32GB of RAM. And yep, £3,350 from Apple is not cheap. But with a discount from Costco, then take off the VAT and deduct Corporation Tax saved and its £2,100.

    Still a lot a lot. But decent laptops cost £crazy these days. And I want build quality and longevity as I'm sick of hardware which doesn't last with daily use.
This discussion has been closed.