but relying on the political establishment of rUK to be bluffing over use of Sterling does strike me as brinksmanship of a high order.
But again, I think that's missing the point. All the SNP need is for the Scottish public to believe, for now, that the rUK politicians are bluffing. If after a "Yes" vote, even if the UK politicians turn round and say "we really weren't bluffing, we're not letting you stay in sterling", then that won't matter to the SNP because they would already have got what they wanted. They can then say that, because the Westminster politicians are being unreasonable, Scotland will just have to create its own currency, which is probably what they privately want anyway.
Yes, good point. Personally I don't think they are, and I'd take that into account if I had a vote.
Does anyone know if there was an Irish currency debate in 1918-22? For that matter was the currency union to 1979 official with the BoE being lender of last resort or was it a currency peg? Just interested, I think the world is a different place in 2014 compared to 1922 so I'm not sure there's much direct bearing on the Scottish situation.
But I am getting increasingly frustrated by the abysmal handling of the whole campaign by the SNP.
You'll forgive me if I don't share that kipper council of despair with seventh months to go, the polls tightening and the 'best' the No campaign have to offer the scottish public being Osborne making assertions on a subject that a mere 2% of the scottish public thought was most important.
I wasn't despondent when labour were beating the SNP by double figures months out from 2011 and I'm not despondent now. Hard work is still required but today is a repeat of the same scaremongering we've been dealing with since 2012. More intense perhaps but still nothing new. I don't expect to be asked on currency when leafleting that much more than now and it's very, very few times as it is. It really isn't anywhere near as big an issue as the No campaign were praying it would be and if this is all they have then they are the ones in trouble come the referendum.
But I am getting increasingly frustrated by the abysmal handling of the whole campaign by the SNP.
You'll forgive me if I don't share that kipper council of despair with seventh months to go, the polls tightening and the 'best' the No campaign have to offer the scottish public being Osborne making assertions on a subject that a mere 2% of the scottish public thought was most important.
Just because it isn't the most important issue, doesn't mean it isn't actually important.
You Cybernats seem very upset about something that apparently doesnt matter!
Tears of Laughter etc...
Whereas you Cybertwits don't seem to understand that refuting obvious spin while laughing at the unquestioning belief in Osbrowne and his sudden supposed popularity in Scotland is not being upset at all.
When it comes to the Scots-Nats: Beware them being challenged....
On the matter of personal abuse, I am complaining to the moderator as this is not acceptable in a PM. I do not accept anything in a PM that wouldn't be acceptable on the normal message board.
but it's not just Osborne's assertions is it? It's Labour's and the Lib Dems' too
We're supposed to be surprised the economics frontmen of other two big unionist parties who support No are falling in line behind Osborne and supporting him? Nope. No surprise here. Nor are they themselves particularly popular if truth be told. I know, the No campaign don't like to hear that. Unless of course it's when they quote those unpopularity figures themselves when they aren't banging away about Independence. Funny that.
I'm not saying it's a surprise or not or if Balls and Alexander are popular or not in Scotland just that it seems pretty clear that any rUK Govt in 2014-6 is not going to be looking favourably on a currency union with a newly minted foreign country. If only precisely because the Euro has pointed out the risks so clearly. A bit of transactional cost seems a fair price to pay for not sharing a currency as far as I can see, in order to remove the possibility of having act as a source of a bailout of a future RBS style catastrophe.
I'm worried about just how much Pork has been crying today! You'll get dehydration if your not careful!
I could take you back to the threads on Cammie Veto flounce or his EU speech of a lifetime where the PB tories were running out of fluids to excrete in sheer joy. How right they have been proved.
but relying on the political establishment of rUK to be bluffing over use of Sterling does strike me as brinksmanship of a high order.
But again, I think that's missing the point. All the SNP need is for the Scottish public to believe, for now, that the rUK politicians are bluffing. If after a "Yes" vote, even if the UK politicians turn round and say "we really weren't bluffing, we're not letting you stay in sterling", then that won't matter to the SNP because they would already have got what they wanted. They can then say that, because the Westminster politicians are being unreasonable, Scotland will just have to create its own currency, which is probably what they privately want anyway.
Yes, good point. Personally I don't think they are, and I'd take that into account if I had a vote.
Does anyone know if there was an Irish currency debate in 1918-22? For that matter was the currency union to 1979 official with the BoE being lender of last resort or was it a currency peg? Just interested, I think the world is a different place in 2014 compared to 1922 so I'm not sure there's much direct bearing on the Scottish situation.
Someone upthread (or perhaps the last thread) had some interesting remarks about the currency link. I don't know about 1918-22 but I suspect they were more concerned with which rifle to use - they did have an insurgency seguing latterly into a civil war after all.
You Cybernats seem very upset about something that apparently doesnt matter!
Tears of Laughter etc...
Whereas you Cybertwits don't seem to understand that refuting obvious spin while laughing at the unquestioning belief in Osbrowne and his sudden supposed popularity in Scotland is not being upset at all.
Mick Pork - I'm genuinely interested in this - The SNP has had half a century to figure out what kind of currency they want - Why is this being argued about 6 months before the referendum? Why are we - here, or anywhere else - even having an argument at all ?
Mick Pork - I'm genuinely interested in this - The SNP has had half a century to figure out what kind of currency they want - Why is this being argued about 6 months before the referendum? Why are we - here, or anywhere else - even having an argument at all ?
but relying on the political establishment of rUK to be bluffing over use of Sterling does strike me as brinksmanship of a high order.
But again, I think that's missing the point. All the SNP need is for the Scottish public to believe, for now, that the rUK politicians are bluffing. If after a "Yes" vote, even if the UK politicians turn round and say "we really weren't bluffing, we're not letting you stay in sterling", then that won't matter to the SNP because they would already have got what they wanted. They can then say that, because the Westminster politicians are being unreasonable, Scotland will just have to create its own currency, which is probably what they privately want anyway.
Yes, good point. Personally I don't think they are, and I'd take that into account if I had a vote.
Does anyone know if there was an Irish currency debate in 1918-22? For that matter was the currency union to 1979 official with the BoE being lender of last resort or was it a currency peg? Just interested, I think the world is a different place in 2014 compared to 1922 so I'm not sure there's much direct bearing on the Scottish situation.
Someone upthread (or perhaps the last thread) had some interesting remarks about the currency link. I don't know about 1918-22 but I suspect they were more concerned with which rifle to use - they did have an insurgency seguing latterly into a civil war after all.
Well yes, though we should all be grateful the Scots debate is just that, a debate with a peaceful ballot box at the end of it. War or not, 1918-22, someone within Sinn Fein must've considered the economic options?
Why is this being argued about 6 months before the referendum?
You mean why are No basing their entire campaign on assertions by a massively unpopular tory chancellor in scotland? Because they have no positive vision for scotland of course. This really is all they have to offer to the scottish public. It's pitiful.
Well, that's a view. But the popularity or not a of a particular chancellor is not really the issue - If you're making an offer - independence or anything else - then you should have worked out, at least in broad brush - What you;re offering. And the SNP haven't done that. Which is baffling.
Well, that's a view. But the popularity or not a of a particular chancellor is not really the issue - If you're making an offer - independence or anything else - then you should have worked out, at least in broad brush.
We have. You still don't realise how amusing it is to see assertions treated as fact on here for post after post. Just because Osborne and the PB tories don't like what has been worked out certainly doesn't mean it hasn't been worked out. It has. No matter how many times you assert the spin of the No campaign or Osborne it's never going to make it true. It's their view. It's not fact.
When it comes to the Scots-Nats: Beware them being challenged....
On the matter of personal abuse, I am complaining to the moderator as this is not acceptable in a PM. I do not accept anything in a PM that wouldn't be acceptable on the normal message board.
Why are you posting your own PMs to moderators? You're drunk again I take it.
It makes you wonder what the point of independence is.
Hatred of the English. Always has been
I am English from wigan, schooled in scotland. I do not hate myself, I do however dislike a clique of Old Etonians telling Scotland, and for that matter Wigan what to do.
Unelected Lords, many of them unelected, do not help the scenario.
So nothing to do wth hatred of the English, but in your best Daily Mail rant you knew that anyway and were just trying to antagonise, failing dismally I would suggest.
Dislike of Tories and Westminster would be shared with the majority of English people at this time, let alone people in Scotland!
On currency, the hypocrisy from Westminster against Scotland when Isle of Man, Guernsey and Jersey and Gibraltar use the pound is remarkable, It would be a major point in the advertising if I was running it. All about vindictive behaviour from a threatened privileged elite, nothing else. The fact that not all the above are in the UK or even in the EU is a bit of a problem too, but I am sure Osborne will brush over those facts.
My own choice is to peg the Scots pound to the Isle of Man pound and Jersey pound, after all no UK issues there. Looking at that scenario again and again it is game over if that happens.
Is Osborne going to suddenly pull the pound from those tax havens his tory mates use after the event? No, of course not.
How could he justify them also losing the pound NOW when they have traded for last god knows how long with no issues and not even in the UK for goodness sake. Bit like Scotland really in 2016 if you think about it. What is good for Isle of man is good enough for Scotland, unless the Tories are scared they cannot pay the debt off after the fiunds go as collateral for a debt free Scotland. The real sums, not just Gers make sad viewing south of Berwick, as Johh Jappy the ex civil servant has shown in his significant coverage on the matter. Done without malice I add.
Any thoughts from seething right wing Tories to the above would be gratefully received.
Comments
Does anyone know if there was an Irish currency debate in 1918-22? For that matter was the currency union to 1979 official with the BoE being lender of last resort or was it a currency peg? Just interested, I think the world is a different place in 2014 compared to 1922 so I'm not sure there's much direct bearing on the Scottish situation.
73% were most worried that the Big Brother house would now be in a foreign country.
Tears of Laughter etc...
*tears of laughter etc*
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/02/paul-nuttall-interview-i-dont-want-to-lead-ukip/
Happy days.
Do you mean the laughable spin from the Salmond that rUK will have to agree to a currency union?
Why are we - here, or anywhere else - even having an argument at all ?
This really is all they have to offer to the scottish public. It's pitiful.
Unelected Lords, many of them unelected, do not help the scenario.
So nothing to do wth hatred of the English, but in your best Daily Mail rant you knew that anyway and were just trying to antagonise, failing dismally I would suggest.
Dislike of Tories and Westminster would be shared with the majority of English people at this time, let alone people in Scotland!
The fact that not all the above are in the UK or even in the EU is a bit of a problem too, but I am sure Osborne will brush over those facts.
My own choice is to peg the Scots pound to the Isle of Man pound and Jersey pound, after all no UK issues there. Looking at that scenario again and again it is game over if that happens.
Is Osborne going to suddenly pull the pound from those tax havens his tory mates use after the event? No, of course not.
How could he justify them also losing the pound NOW when they have traded for last god knows how long with no issues and not even in the UK for goodness sake. Bit like Scotland really in 2016 if you think about it. What is good for Isle of man is good enough for Scotland, unless the Tories are scared they cannot pay the debt off after the fiunds go as collateral for a debt free Scotland.
The real sums, not just Gers make sad viewing south of Berwick, as Johh Jappy the ex civil servant has shown in his significant coverage on the matter. Done without malice I add.
Any thoughts from seething right wing Tories to the above would be gratefully received.