Mr. Pork, it could be very bad, but the floods/winds/ should ensure the Lib Dems don't get blanket media coverage.
Agreed but Rennard was always a slow burner. Legal action with Tim Farron liable? There is no 'good ending' for that. There also comes a point where there is no possible excuses left for dire by-election results from the lib dems. If they placidly accept this is just how things are going to be from now on then they can say goodbye to a huge number of voters for far longer than just a few years. Their base is being eroded away with every terrible result.
Mr. Easterross, whilst interesting (and depressing) I do wonder at the mindset. Do the Yes Scots think negotiation involves Scottish demands, British agreement and nothing else?
I suggest a week of watching BBC Scotland news output - you would think the world ended at Dumfries, Celtic are champions of Europe and the Six Nations has been cancelled this year. Channel 862 on Virgin btw...
Perhaps the assessment is that people won't vote so much on the basis of whether they like British politicians as on whether they feel uneasy or relaxed about independence. The announcements may make the Westminster politicians look less likeable, but they also make independence look more of a gamble. The upside for the SNP is that it at least shows that the idea of independence is being seriously discussed, rather than just shrugged off as a highland fantasy.
It's of course possible that the statements are simply to be taken at face value, though. Perhaps Osborne and Balls genuinely feel it needs to be made clear that currency union is not available, so they aren't later accused of sour grapes.
By the way, could we lay off the "wee Eck" stuff? It's not that hard to write "Salmond". I support union too, but don't remember kindergarten and its nicknaming with any degree of nostalgia.
Could well be right Nick - And Scottish votrs, particularly prvalent in the central blt whoswitch their vote from SNP to Labour for the Westminster elections to keep the 3rd, 4th or 5th place conservatives out are the most negative/fearful of the lot.
If the No campaign is playing the game on the politics of fear it may well work with the slabs.
It is worth looking at those with the highest likes. The most popular, with 554, is this:
"What is it with Ms Sturgeon and "bullying" ?
It seems that every time she's told she can't have something (in this case, the pound), she says Scotland is being "bullied".
No, you're not being "bullied", you're being told "no". But she seems to be trying to redefine the word "bullying" in an attempt to win her argument, and that's not much of a way to win an argument."
Pretty much all of the most popular are in a similar vein. Either a lot of English are linking into this story or the polling is going to be different from here on.
Anyone who believes for a minute that Osborne, Balls and Alexander are going to change their position on this should look at those comments.
It is not just PB that is obsessed with this today. The headlines on the Scottish part of the BBC website are all about this and the number of comments is an extraordinary 4338.
Anyone who believes for a minute that Osborne, Balls and Alexander are going to change their position on this should look at those comments.
I really fail to see how the comments from the Westminster parties were unreasonable (it might be in rUK's best interests, I wouldn't know, but it is surely their right to say no to it regardless if Scotland goes independent), and the labelling of it as bullying struck me as not the most effective way to make capital from it from the SNP, a bit lazy, but I guess all that matters is if it can be made to look unreasonable.
The SNP – a gentle, sensitive bunch, perpetually saddened by the opportunism and hypocrisy characteristic of all political parties but their own – have accused George Osborne of “bullying” on the grounds that he won’t let them force the UK into a currency union if Scotland votes to become a separate country.
This morning I listened to the speech the Chancellor gave in Edinburgh on the subject. It didn’t sound like bullying to me. If he’d wanted to be bullying, he could have said a lot worse.
It is not just PB that is obsessed with this today. The headlines on the Scottish part of the BBC website are all about this and the number of comments is an extraordinary 4338.
Anyone who believes for a minute that Osborne, Balls and Alexander are going to change their position on this should look at those comments.
*tears of laughter etc."
Funniest post of the day.
100% Unspoofable.
Mail comments section next please.
I have got an unspoofable from Mick. 100% no less. My work here is done.
It is worth looking at those with the highest likes. The most popular, with 554, is this:
"What is it with Ms Sturgeon and "bullying" ?
It seems that every time she's told she can't have something (in this case, the pound), she says Scotland is being "bullied".
No, you're not being "bullied", you're being told "no". But she seems to be trying to redefine the word "bullying" in an attempt to win her argument, and that's not much of a way to win an argument."
Pretty much all of the most popular are in a similar vein. Either a lot of English are linking into this story or the polling is going to be different from here on.
Anyone who believes for a minute that Osborne, Balls and Alexander are going to change their position on this should look at those comments.
The BBC stopped allowing comments on just about all Scottish political stories a long time ago, but before they did, it was very noticeable that the balance of comments varied strongly according to whether the BBC counted it as a "UK" or "Region" (sensu BBC) story and therefore where it was placed on the website. This is on the "Region" page but is also on the main UK page so you are at least partly right in suggesting that that is a factor (though I'd be more inclined to say non-Scots rather than English, especially given the involvement of certain other factions such as Welsh Labour).
Go on then, explain the link between sterling and house price levels. I can't think of one
Sterling devaluation in 2008/9 reduced the effective price of London houses for foreign buyers who were seeking a safe haven for their assets. This effectively supported the price level while much of the rest of the UK prices slipped (because, for other reasons, they were perceived as a less attractive investment).
Do I get a gold star?
A gold saltire (special offer for one news cycle only).
Yay! My very own saltire.
*Waves happily* Until the flag gets damp from all the f****** rain in Germany
It is not just PB that is obsessed with this today. The headlines on the Scottish part of the BBC website are all about this and the number of comments is an extraordinary 4338.
Anyone who believes for a minute that Osborne, Balls and Alexander are going to change their position on this should look at those comments.
*tears of laughter etc."
Funniest post of the day.
100% Unspoofable.
Mail comments section next please.
Pork
Does the Right Honourable 'Wee Eck' Salmond, MSP intend to keep Edinburgh as the capital city of Scotland or is he planning to borrow Bath Spa as his new first city post indepretendence?
Yesterday morning I did post this on here about the leak of a LibLabCon sterling statement. "The aim is obviously to frighten the Scots about Independence. Could it create an opposite effect in upsetting the scots when 2 English politicians and a politician from the least supported “major party in Scotland” (Lib Dem Scot Danny) treats them in this manner?"
As a supporter of independence I may well be right. Interesting politics.
A spokesman for Lord Rennard has just released the following statement to the media:
There will be no court action if the party simply follows its own rules, or if there is a realistic prospect of mediation succeeding. In the meantime, Lord Rennard is still waiting to see the report of Alistair Webster’s investigation, as was promised to him. He was, however, informed by Alistair Webster personally that the report’s only decision was that there should be no further action, as there was insufficient evidence to hold a disciplinary hearing. Any lawful party action and any mediation will have to reflect this.
It is quite probable that the position on the issue of the pound adopted by the 3 main unionist parties will lead many, possibly even thousands of Scots to decide to vote yes. It might even prove to be the tipping point. It will be nothing to do with the SNP or the YES campaign. It will simply be down to the thrawn nature of the Scots. We can't stand anyone telling us what to do or not to do.
The SNP is however kidding itself on if it believes after a YES vote the unionist parties will roll over on the shared use of the pound or anything else. The English electorate will expect its politicians to adopt a very robust stance in pre-independence negotiations including the pound and the governing parties will not disappoint their voters in this regard. The SNP and its pals aint seen nothing yet. It will get very bloody and it will split the SNP wide open, with the rabid lefties shouting and balling and the pragmatic, centrist Tartan Tories seeking a way ahead which will not frighten the international money markets. The SNP should just admit we are heading back to the Groat.
Very likely Salmond will have to concentrate on the " heart " rather than the "head" to squeak a yes vote, as as far as I can see the SNP have been shredded over the pragmatic issues over the past few months of which the currency knot they've got themselves into is the worst. No surprise the three main UK parties have gone for the jugular on this as the SNP can no longer answer what will actually be in people's pay packets come 2016. Sterling adopted unofficially, the Euro, or the Groat ( or whatever it will be called).
Emotion is Salmond's only pull methinks. Might still be enough, but I think it's an uphill task.
Devo super max within 5/6 years and a reduction in Scots UK MPs to 30 odd?
But not necessarily any election soon until the new electoral law is passed? Paddy Power has a market on the date of the next Italian election but I'm not sure I spot any value just yet. Worth keeping an eye on it though because they were offering free money on Berlusconi running for a party that doesnt exist last year, they clearly dont follow these things very closely which offers good opportunities to make some pocket money (depending on your personal betting limits with them!).
@Neil, Yes one to watch. When PMs start resigning then there's always the possibility that the government will spin into instability, so I'd have though an early election is a possible outcome, but I don't claim to know much about Italian politics.
Mr. Pork, it could be very bad, but the floods/winds/ should ensure the Lib Dems don't get blanket media coverage.
Agreed but Rennard was always a slow burner. Legal action with Tim Farron liable? There is no 'good ending' for that. There also comes a point where there is no possible excuses left for dire by-election results from the lib dems. If they placidly accept this is just how things are going to be from now on then they can say goodbye to a huge number of voters for far longer than just a few years. Their base is being eroded away with every terrible result.
Yeah, I agreed with the consensus on here a few weeks ago that the Rennard saga would be a Westminster village story that would go unnoticed by the public, but I think the dip in the Lib Dems' poll ratings and Clegg's personal ratings in recent weeks show it really has had an effect. I think they were unlucky in that the Mike Hancock thing erupted at the same time. On their own, either story would probably have been dismissed by the public as just one individual who wasn't representative of the party, but combined, it's possible they've given the Lib Dems a slight taint of being sleazy weirdos.
Also of interest are 2 articles on the economically conservative/libertarian City AM that think Osborne/Balls/Alexander are talking balls on Scot+sterling.
This article recommends dollarisation - only snag is you need a central bank to join the EU - part of the rules old thing.
Still it might be postive for Scots - would keep Brown out of office
"Economist George Selgin has pointed out that not having a lender of last resort has actually been a positive for dollarized economies as "by doing away with, or at least greatly limiting, any prospect of a bailout, it has caused creditors and banks to behave more prudently. "
Don't understand the SNP position on Sterling. Do they actually want independence or not? Its as if they haven't figured out what independence actually means.
Don't understand the SNP position on Sterling. Do they actually want independence or not? Its as if they haven't figured out what independence actually means.
Hey Mum, I'm leaving home. DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING IN MY ROOM!
Also of interest are 2 articles on the economically conservative/libertarian City AM that think Osborne/Balls/Alexander are talking balls on Scot+sterling.
Off topic: It looks as if the Crown Prosecution Service's recent attempts to test Bracton's maxim that nullum tempus occurrit regi have not paid off too handsomely.
@Neil, Yes one to watch. When PMs start resigning then there's always the possibility that the government will spin into instability, so I'd have though an early election is a possible outcome, but I don't claim to know much about Italian politics.
Where's Andrea when you need him?
Richard
I don't think Andrea is a Renzi man. Probably even less so after he negotiated last month's electoral deal with Silvio's party.
Why does success in Italian politics always seem to rely on getting into bed with Silvio?
of which the currency knot they've got themselves into is the worst
The complete lack of memory from some people on this is staggering. Osborne has been posturing away on currency since 2012. This has been going on for years. His assertions are just that. Assertions. He's been saying much the same thing regularly every few months and it hasn't stopped the polls tightening recently. Currency is rated 8th in priorities with a mere 2% of the scottish public ranking it as most important. It's hilarious that still hasn't sunk in or the fact that Osborne's posturing really does seem to be the best/only strategy the No campaign think it now has. Just think about that for a second and then tell me who it is that looks desperate right now. It's an Independence referendum about all the powers that would involve. Even if currency magically became the only thing the scottish public cared about it would still boil down to who the scottish public trust most on that with Osborne front and centre as the voice and face of No.
@Neil, Yes one to watch. When PMs start resigning then there's always the possibility that the government will spin into instability, so I'd have though an early election is a possible outcome, but I don't claim to know much about Italian politics.
Where's Andrea when you need him?
Richard
I don't think Andrea is a Renzi man. Probably even less so after he negotiated last month's electoral deal with Silvio's party.
Why does success in Italian politics always seem to rely on getting into bed with Silvio?
It is quite probable that the position on the issue of the pound adopted by the 3 main unionist parties will lead many, possibly even thousands of Scots to decide to vote yes. It might even prove to be the tipping point. It will be nothing to do with the SNP or the YES campaign. It will simply be down to the thrawn nature of the Scots. We can't stand anyone telling us what to do or not to do.
The SNP is however kidding itself on if it believes after a YES vote the unionist parties will roll over on the shared use of the pound or anything else. The English electorate will expect its politicians to adopt a very robust stance in pre-independence negotiations including the pound and the governing parties will not disappoint their voters in this regard. The SNP and its pals aint seen nothing yet. It will get very bloody and it will split the SNP wide open, with the rabid lefties shouting and balling and the pragmatic, centrist Tartan Tories seeking a way ahead which will not frighten the international money markets. The SNP should just admit we are heading back to the Groat.
Very likely Salmond will have to concentrate on the " heart " rather than the "head" to squeak a yes vote, as as far as I can see the SNP have been shredded over the pragmatic issues over the past few months of which the currency knot they've got themselves into is the worst. No surprise the three main UK parties have gone for the jugular on this as the SNP can no longer answer what will actually be in people's pay packets come 2016. Sterling adopted unofficially, the Euro, or the Groat ( or whatever it will be called).
Emotion is Salmond's only pull methinks. Might still be enough, but I think it's an uphill task.
Devo super max within 5/6 years and a reduction in Scots UK MPs to 30 odd?
TBH I think their position on the currency is almost credible compared with their explanation as to how they are going to stop EU law from preventing English students avoiding paying fees to Scottish Universities. Listening to Nicola Sturgeon trying to explain that one really deserved to be a skit on the fringe (where, as a whole, things are not very funny, just slightly embarrassing).
of which the currency knot they've got themselves into is the worst
The complete lack of memory from some people on this is staggering. Osborne has been posturing away on currency since 2012. This has been going on for years. His assertions are just that. Assertions. He's been saying much the same thing regularly every few months and it hasn't stopped the polls tightening recently. Currency is rated 8th in priorities with a mere 2% of the scottish public ranking it as most important. It's hilarious that still hasn't sunk in or the fact that Osborne's posturing really does seem to be the best/only strategy the No campaign think it now has. Just think about that for a second and then tell me who it is that looks desperate right now. It's an Independence referendum about all the powers that would involve. Even if currency magically became the only thing the scottish public cared about it would still boil down to who the scottish public trust most on that with Osborne front and centre as the voice and face of No.
So not knowing what currency you're going to be using is fine because the public aren't bothered? If the yes vote goes through these issues are going to be very important indeed.
The attitude seems to be that if it doesn't affect the opinion polls then it doesn't matter.
It is quite probable that the position on the issue of the pound adopted by the 3 main unionist parties will lead many, possibly even thousands of Scots to decide to vote yes. It might even prove to be the tipping point. It will be nothing to do with the SNP or the YES campaign. It will simply be down to the thrawn nature of the Scots. We can't stand anyone telling us what to do or not to do.
The SNP is however kidding itself on if it believes after a YES vote the unionist parties will roll over on the shared use of the pound or anything else. The English electorate will expect its politicians to adopt a very robust stance in pre-independence negotiations including the pound and the governing parties will not disappoint their voters in this regard. The SNP and its pals aint seen nothing yet. It will get very bloody and it will split the SNP wide open, with the rabid lefties shouting and balling and the pragmatic, centrist Tartan Tories seeking a way ahead which will not frighten the international money markets. The SNP should just admit we are heading back to the Groat.
Very likely Salmond will have to concentrate on the " heart " rather than the "head" to squeak a yes vote, as as far as I can see the SNP have been shredded over the pragmatic issues over the past few months of which the currency knot they've got themselves into is the worst. No surprise the three main UK parties have gone for the jugular on this as the SNP can no longer answer what will actually be in people's pay packets come 2016. Sterling adopted unofficially, the Euro, or the Groat ( or whatever it will be called).
Emotion is Salmond's only pull methinks. Might still be enough, but I think it's an uphill task.
Devo super max within 5/6 years and a reduction in Scots UK MPs to 30 odd?
TBH I think their position on the currency is almost credible compared with their explanation as to how they are going to stop EU law from preventing English students avoiding paying fees to Scottish Universities. Listening to Nicola Sturgeon trying to explain that one really deserved to be a skit on the fringe (where, as a whole, things are not very funny, just slightly embarrassing).
Why are they so keen currency union? It's like me arguing simultaneously for the UK to leave the EU while being part of the Eurozone.
Independence means exactly that, with all the risks, and all the opportunities that entails.
of which the currency knot they've got themselves into is the worst
The complete lack of memory from some people on this is staggering. Osborne has been posturing away on currency since 2012. This has been going on for years. His assertions are just that. Assertions. He's been saying much the same thing regularly every few months and it hasn't stopped the polls tightening recently. Currency is rated 8th in priorities with a mere 2% of the scottish public ranking it as most important. It's hilarious that still hasn't sunk in or the fact that Osborne's posturing really does seem to be the best/only strategy the No campaign think it now has. Just think about that for a second and then tell me who it is that looks desperate right now. It's an Independence referendum about all the powers that would involve. Even if currency magically became the only thing the scottish public cared about it would still boil down to who the scottish public trust most on that with Osborne front and centre as the voice and face of No.
So not knowing what currency you're going to be using is fine
Wrong. We know what currency we will be using. It's this utterly incredible belief from the PB tories that anything Osbrowne says must be true that keeps getting you into such trouble.
He's posturing. Cammie does it all the time. Cast Iron Referendum? Forgotten about that already have you? What about every single time Cammie's own MPs have humiliated him when they finally realised they were being taken for gullible fools by the posturing? The EU flounce. Lords Reform and Boundary changes. Syria. The immigration vote. The Referendum Bill. Remember that one? So you'll forgive those of us who don't view Osborne or their unionist helpers pronouncements and spin with the rose tinted glasses the PB tories do.
You can assert away just as much as Osborne did but that won't make all the spin true and it certainly won't persuade the scottish public. Not that the PB tories and scottish tory surgers ever have much chance of that to be fair.
The SNP – a gentle, sensitive bunch, perpetually saddened by the opportunism and hypocrisy characteristic of all political parties but their own – have accused George Osborne of “bullying” on the grounds that he won’t let them force the UK into a currency union if Scotland votes to become a separate country.
This morning I listened to the speech the Chancellor gave in Edinburgh on the subject. It didn’t sound like bullying to me. If he’d wanted to be bullying, he could have said a lot worse.
At one point, Mr Osborne said the SNP were behaving like the angry party in a divorce. Actually the argument feels not so much like wife vs husband as like teenager vs parent. The SNP is taking the position of teenager (“If you don’t give me every single thing I want, it’s like TOTALLY UNFAIR”). Mr Osborne, meanwhile, is taking the position of parent (“You’ll do as you’re told, or face the consequences. Look, I’m only saying it for your own good”).
As a wise man once said 'Repeating the same quotes day after day week after week does not making it any more likely for them to come true .'
Scotland will join a Sterling currency union!
Oh
Perhaps you missed my request for some of you Bettortogether types (geddit) to price up the likelihood of a currency union if Scotland votes Yes?
I'm sure someone like you giving it large about what *will* happen wouldn't turn out to be a gutless blusterer who runs for the hills when asked to back up their blethers.
The SNP – a gentle, sensitive bunch, perpetually saddened by the opportunism and hypocrisy characteristic of all political parties but their own – have accused George Osborne of “bullying” on the grounds that he won’t let them force the UK into a currency union if Scotland votes to become a separate country.
This morning I listened to the speech the Chancellor gave in Edinburgh on the subject. It didn’t sound like bullying to me. If he’d wanted to be bullying, he could have said a lot worse.
Any news from anyone on the ground in Wythenshawe?
All the indications are that turnout is pretty solid, atleast by the abysmal standards set by byelections in recent years. I think some Labour people were worried last night that the weather would depress their vote, but as the tweet someone posted before says, weather around Manchester has actually been pretty good today: sunny and dry, although cold.
The euro crisis and the total collapse it almost triggered in the European economy is seared into the consciousness of all modern politicians. They understand that without banking and fiscal union, currency union is inherently unstable. Imagine the English - and Welsh and Northern Irish - agreeing to underwrite a bank of RBS's size in Edinburgh without having any control over its activities, or agreeeing to underwrite greater borrowing by politicians north of the border who wanted to spend more money on social welfare? It is just not going to happen. I don't think you can even say that is a matter of opinion. In the Westminster climate of this time, it is a cold, hard reality.
As a wise man once said 'Repeating the same quotes day after day week after week does not making it any more likely for them to come true .'
Scotland will join a Sterling currency union!
Oh
Perhaps you missed my request for some of you Bettortogether types (geddit) to price up the likelihood of a currency union if Scotland votes Yes?
I'm sure someone like you giving it large about what *will* happen wouldn't turn out to be a gutless blusterer who runs for the hills when asked to back up their blethers.
Very likely Salmond will have to concentrate on the " heart " rather than the "head" to squeak a yes vote, as as far as I can see the SNP have been shredded over the pragmatic issues over the past few months of which the currency knot they've got themselves into is the worst. No surprise the three main UK parties have gone for the jugular on this as the SNP can no longer answer what will actually be in people's pay packets come 2016. Sterling adopted unofficially, the Euro, or the Groat ( or whatever it will be called).
Emotion is Salmond's only pull methinks. Might still be enough, but I think it's an uphill task.
Devo super max within 5/6 years and a reduction in Scots UK MPs to 30 odd?
TBH I think their position on the currency is almost credible compared with their explanation as to how they are going to stop EU law from preventing English students avoiding paying fees to Scottish Universities. Listening to Nicola Sturgeon trying to explain that one really deserved to be a skit on the fringe (where, as a whole, things are not very funny, just slightly embarrassing).
Why are they so keen currency union? It's like me arguing simultaneously for the UK to leave the EU while being part of the Eurozone.
Independence means exactly that, with all the risks, and all the opportunities that entails.
The SNP policy has been very clear since the referendum was announced. Independence will change almost nothing except that we will all be better off because we will no longer be subsidising the English (and presumably the Welsh and the Irish but they don't count for this discussion).
So we keep the Queen, we remain in NATO, our armed forces are magically going to remain the same (except no nuclear weapons of course), we keep building rUK warships for them, we keep the same arrangements that allow us to have "free" (for an ever diminishing number of students but hey) tertiary education, we keep the BBC (sort of), we keep the same currency, we keep the same benefits (except even better with no nasty bedroom tax), we keep the same pension entitlements etc etc.
Having to start a new currency with a new country does not fit that mold so it has been rejected. Nothing to scare the horses. Unfortunately it appears that George has opened the stable door.
Very likely Salmond will have to concentrate on the " heart " rather than the "head" to squeak a yes vote, as as far as I can see the SNP have been shredded over the pragmatic issues over the past few months of which the currency knot they've got themselves into is the worst. No surprise the three main UK parties have gone for the jugular on this as the SNP can no longer answer what will actually be in people's pay packets come 2016. Sterling adopted unofficially, the Euro, or the Groat ( or whatever it will be called).
Emotion is Salmond's only pull methinks. Might still be enough, but I think it's an uphill task.
Devo super max within 5/6 years and a reduction in Scots UK MPs to 30 odd?
TBH I think their position on the currency is almost credible compared with their explanation as to how they are going to stop EU law from preventing English students avoiding paying fees to Scottish Universities. Listening to Nicola Sturgeon trying to explain that one really deserved to be a skit on the fringe (where, as a whole, things are not very funny, just slightly embarrassing).
Why are they so keen currency union? It's like me arguing simultaneously for the UK to leave the EU while being part of the Eurozone.
Independence means exactly that, with all the risks, and all the opportunities that entails.
The SNP policy has been very clear since the referendum was announced. Independence will change almost nothing except that we will all be better off because we will no longer be subsidising the English (and presumably the Welsh and the Irish but they don't count for this discussion).
So we keep the Queen, we remain in NATO, our armed forces are magically going to remain the same (except no nuclear weapons of course), we keep building rUK warships for them, we keep the same arrangements that allow us to have "free" (for an ever diminishing number of students but hey) tertiary education, we keep the BBC (sort of), we keep the same currency, we keep the same benefits (except even better with no nasty bedroom tax), we keep the same pension entitlements etc etc.
Having to start a new currency with a new country does not fit that mold so it has been rejected. Nothing to scare the horses. Unfortunately it appears that George has opened the stable door.
It makes you wonder what the point of independence is.
Mick I know you are suffering today because of the blow dealt to your cause by Osborne and the rest of the Westminster establishment but linking to left wing garbage about UKIP in an attempt to produce a squirrel moment really is an act of desperation.
The debt threat is laughable. The damage rUK could do to the Scottish economy (rUK will be their largest trading partner by a country mile) by the introduction of tariffs, or excluding Scottish good from Government procurement, is a much larger, knobblier stick to hold.
If Scotland walked away from British debt, I would fully expect the UK to oppose entry to Scotland in all international organisations it is part of until their fair share is rightfully paid. The only fair way to divide up everything is a per capita share of both assets and debts. If Scotland walked away with more per person, then the rUK Prime Minister would have sold out his own country.
One could say that a couple of recent UK Prime Ministers have had no trouble doing that.
On topic, I'm not sure what the No campaign are meant to do. If they keep quiet, they get criticised for invisibility - and Darling isn't particularly visible. If they point out the risks and pitfalls of independence, they get criticised for threatening and bullying Scotland.
The answer is, of course, to make the positive case for Scotland to remain in the UK, as both proud Scots and proud Britons too - that these two aren't mutually exclusive and that identity and emotional attachment is rooted in both. I can't avoid the conclusion that too many politicians do run scared of Salmond, though. He's not invulnerable - they just don't know how to handle him.
On an aside, I recognise Easterross' description of Scots - and the Scottish psyche - reacting to what they perceive others telling them what they can/can't do from my time in Scotland. Scots are passionate and proud people. However, in my experience, they are also rational, so whilst they may be aggravated now, they might not carry that all the way to the polling both in 7 months time.
This, presumably, is why the No campaign are getting these arguments in now, early, and waiting to see what the polling reaction is. Right now, they can afford to take a few tactical risks.
of which the currency knot they've got themselves into is the worst
So not knowing what currency you're going to be using is fine
Wrong. We know what currency we will be using. It's this utterly incredible belief from the PB tories that anything Osbrowne says must be true that keeps getting you into such trouble.
He's posturing. Cammie does it all the time. Cast Iron Referendum? Forgotten about that already have you? What about every single time Cammie's own MPs have humiliated him when they finally realised they were being taken for gullible fools by the posturing? The EU flounce. Lords Reform and Boundary changes. Syria. The immigration vote. The Referendum Bill. Remember that one? So you'll forgive those of us who don't view Osborne or their unionist helpers pronouncements and spin with the rose tinted glasses the PB tories do.
You can assert away just as much as Osborne did but that won't make all the spin true and it certainly won't persuade the scottish public. Not that the PB tories and scottish tory surgers ever have much chance of that to be fair.
So because they've done a few U-turns before you are 100% guaranteed to get what you want even though it won't be up to you? That doesn't seem too logical.
What's the plan B if it turns out the Westminster politicians aren't bluffing?
Any news from anyone on the ground in Wythenshawe?
All the indications are that turnout is pretty solid, atleast by the abysmal standards set by byelections in recent years. I think some Labour people were worried last night that the weather would depress their vote, but as the tweet someone posted before says, weather around Manchester has actually been pretty good today: sunny and dry, although cold.
Thanks Danny.
My prediction for turnout was about 30% so maybe it'll be a little higher than that.
I think the LDs will be on a knife-edge re. saving/losing their deposit, probably 100 votes either way.
In Corby the LDs needed 1,784 votes to save their deposit and got 1,770:
Very likely Salmond will have to concentrate on the " heart " rather than the "head" to squeak a yes vote, as as far as I can see the SNP have been shredded over the pragmatic issues over the past few months of which the currency knot they've got themselves into is the worst. No surprise the three main UK parties have gone for the jugular on this as the SNP can no longer answer what will actually be in people's pay packets come 2016.
Emotion is Salmond's only pull methinks. Might still be enough, but I think it's an uphill task.
Devo super max within 5/6 years and a reduction in Scots UK MPs to 30 odd?
TBH I think their position on the currency is almost credible compared with their explanation as to how they are going to stop EU law from preventing English students avoiding paying fees to Scottish Universities. Listening to Nicola Sturgeon trying to explain that one really deserved to be a skit on the fringe (where, as a whole, things are not very funny, just slightly embarrassing).
Why are they so keen currency union? It's like me arguing simultaneously for the UK to leave the EU while being part of the Eurozone.
Independence means exactly that, with all the risks, and all the opportunities that entails.
The SNP policy has been very clear since the referendum was announced. Independence will change almost nothing except that we will all be better off because we will no longer be subsidising the English (and presumably the Welsh and the Irish but they don't count for this discussion).
So we keep the Queen, we remain in NATO, our armed forces are magically going to remain the same (except no nuclear weapons of course), we keep building rUK warships for them, we keep the same arrangements that allow us to have "free" (for an ever diminishing number of students but hey) tertiary education, we keep the BBC (sort of), we keep the same currency, we keep the same benefits (except even better with no nasty bedroom tax), we keep the same pension entitlements etc etc.
Having to start a new currency with a new country does not fit that mold so it has been rejected. Nothing to scare the horses. Unfortunately it appears that George has opened the stable door.
It makes you wonder what the point of independence is.
It's an enabler to allow them to change all those things, in time. How long did Ireland retain the monarchy and commonwealth after independence? Took them a bit longer to split with the currency, but that was ditched eventually too.
Right now, this is about Salmond maximising his vote in any way, shape or form he can. As SO says, he only needs to win once.
If the SNP does not accept a per-capita debt how will they fund public-sector pensions? The fore-said psp largely rely on the tax-payer to fund them: Given the parasites around Glasgae [passports, bennies, self-assessment] I cannot see how the dahlinc's will get a penny in retirement....
Scotland has a disproportionate amount of nuclear "facilities". No debt; no Sellafield/Aldermaston. Maybe the new alliance will be with Galway's Feinians and Bradford's al-Qeda.
of which the currency knot they've got themselves into is the worst
The complete lack of memory from some people on this is staggering. Osborne has been posturing away on currency since 2012. This has been going on for years. His assertions are just that. Assertions. He's been saying much the same thing regularly every few months and it hasn't stopped the polls tightening recently. Currency is rated 8th in priorities with a mere 2% of the scottish public ranking it as most important. It's hilarious that still hasn't sunk in or the fact that Osborne's posturing really does seem to be the best/only strategy the No campaign think it now has. Just think about that for a second and then tell me who it is that looks desperate right now. It's an Independence referendum about all the powers that would involve. Even if currency magically became the only thing the scottish public cared about it would still boil down to who the scottish public trust most on that with Osborne front and centre as the voice and face of No.
Maybe currency isn't a major driver of Scots referendum voting intentions (though it would make me think!), but it's not just Osborne's assertions is it? It's Labour's and the Lib Dems' too, and some combination of the three of them will be sat in negotiations post a yes vote batting for the best deal for rUK.
I stress I am wholly neutral whether Scotland votes yes or no ( I'd be entitled to a passport I believe if it is a yes), but relying on the political establishment of rUK to be bluffing over use of Sterling does strike me as brinksmanship of a high order.
The prospect of Scotland no longer having a say on Sterling has hammered Britain's beleaguered currency to..........er ..............a two and a half year high.
It's all beginning to get a little bit silly here now (although I have enjoyed some of the posts).
The problem is that a lot of English posters aren't really that bothered about the referendum result. I personally would be sad to see the Scots leave, but I accept it's totally up to them. But to some Scots, it's the be-all and end-all, so making fun of it is felt as insult.
I wonder what I'd think if Lincolnshire wanted to leave the UK. A swift return to the middle ages would probably ensue (agriculture and very little industry), but it would be an adventure for sure. And mockery would probably propel to vote yes, just to annoy the mockers.
Mick I know you are suffering today because of the blow dealt to your cause by Osborne and the rest of the Westminster establishment
Of course. Having a toxic incompetent like Osbrowne all over the scottish news is a crushing blow indeed. So soul destroying I merely wish we could suffer all the more by having him all over the scottish news every week from now until September 18th.
It's almost as crushing a blow as having the massed ranks of gullible PB tories shrieking away since they self-evidently believe anything Osbrowne says without question. Didn't turn out too well for them during the omnishambles but since they all have such short memories it's best not to upset them again with that.
I must admit I didn't realise that Dairy of a Conservative was such 'left wing garbage' but if it's the staggers article bothering you then perhaps outlining why might be more useful.
Farage was wise to be wary of those newer kipper converts jumping on the bandwagon so don't expect me not to respond to their idiocy.
As a wise man once said 'Repeating the same quotes day after day week after week does not making it any more likely for them to come true .'
Scotland will join a Sterling currency union!
Oh
Perhaps you missed my request for some of you Bettortogether types (geddit) to price up the likelihood of a currency union if Scotland votes Yes?
I'm sure someone like you giving it large about what *will* happen wouldn't turn out to be a gutless blusterer who runs for the hills when asked to back up their blethers.
Oh.
Still no takers? Not very brave, are they? Bit cowardly and spineless if we're being honest.
To be fair most of them are motivated by hatred of the Scottish. Always has been on PB.
Mick I know you are suffering today because of the blow dealt to your cause by Osborne and the rest of the Westminster establishment
Of course. Having a toxic incompetent like Osbrowne all over the scottish news is a crushing blow indeed. So soul destroying I merely wish we could suffer all the more by having him all over the scottish news every week from now until September 18th.
It's almost as crushing a blow as having the massed ranks of gullible PB tories shrieking away since they self-evidently believe anything Osbrowne says without question. Didn't turn out too well for them during the omnishambles but since they all have such short memories it's best not to upset them again with that.
I must admit I didn't realise that Dairy of a Conservative was such 'left wing garbage' but if it's the staggers article bothering you then perhaps outlining why might be more useful.
Farage was wise to be wary of those newer kipper converts jumping on the bandwagon so don't expect me not to respond to their idiocy.
Mick, when independence comes (surely a certainty) what honour will you expect to pick up as a result of your tireless efforts on here to help us understand how misguided we are?
There is no problem in Scotland using the pound, and the rUK cannot really stop that. It can refuse currency union though.
Montenegro uses the Euro as currency, without permission. There would be no reserve bank, or say in monetary policy, but there is the possibility.
Reneging on debt would be a very stupid move. Quite apart from making borrowing near impossible, it would be a bar to EU entry. There may also be a legal claim by rUK to crown assets in Scotland such as hospitals, defence bases, perhaps even Holyrood parliament building itself. After all these were bought with UK funds via UK gilts. Fail to pay your mortgage and the bayliffs come calling...
of which the currency knot they've got themselves into is the worst
The complete lack of memory from some people on this is staggering. Osborne has been posturing away on currency since 2012. This has been going on for years. His assertions are just that. Assertions. He's been saying much the same thing regularly every few months and it hasn't stopped the polls tightening recently. Currency is rated 8th in priorities with a mere 2% of the scottish public ranking it as most important. It's hilarious that still hasn't sunk in or the fact that Osborne's posturing really does seem to be the best/only strategy the No campaign think it now has. Just think about that for a second and then tell me who it is that looks desperate right now. It's an Independence referendum about all the powers that would involve. Even if currency magically became the only thing the scottish public cared about it would still boil down to who the scottish public trust most on that with Osborne front and centre as the voice and face of No.
So not knowing what currency you're going to be using is fine
Wrong. We know what currency we will be using. It's this utterly incredible belief from the PB tories that anything Osbrowne says must be true that keeps getting you into such trouble.
He's posturing. Cammie does it all the time. Cast Iron Referendum? Forgotten about that already have you? What about every single time Cammie's own MPs have humiliated him when they finally realised they were being taken for gullible fools by the posturing? The EU flounce. Lords Reform and Boundary changes. Syria. The immigration vote. The Referendum Bill. Remember that one? So you'll forgive those of us who don't view Osborne or their unionist helpers pronouncements and spin with the rose tinted glasses the PB tories do.
You can assert away just as much as Osborne did but that won't make all the spin true and it certainly won't persuade the scottish public. Not that the PB tories and scottish tory surgers ever have much chance of that to be fair.
Mick I know you are suffering today because of the blow dealt to your cause by Osborne and the rest of the Westminster establishment
Of course. Having a toxic incompetent like Osbrowne all over the scottish news is a crushing blow indeed. So soul destroying I merely wish we could suffer all the more by having him all over the scottish news every week from now until September 18th.
It's almost as crushing a blow as having the massed ranks of gullible PB tories shrieking away since they self-evidently believe anything Osbrowne says without question. Didn't turn out too well for them during the omnishambles but since they all have such short memories it's best not to upset them again with that.
I must admit I didn't realise that Dairy of a Conservative was such 'left wing garbage' but if it's the staggers article bothering you then perhaps outlining why might be more useful.
Farage was wise to be wary of those newer kipper converts jumping on the bandwagon so don't expect me not to respond to their idiocy.
The trouble is that I want Yes to win. But I am getting increasingly frustrated by the abysmal handling of the whole campaign by the SNP. A great case could have been made for independence but the inept way in which Salmond and his colleagues have gone about it have made it far less likely that Scotland will get the result she deserves.
Whatever the truth or otherwise of Osborne's claims (and I happen unfortunately to think he is right in this case) the SNP should have had this whole currency issue mailed down months ago.
So apologies for my sniping. It is born out of frustration at seeing such a great opportunity squandered.
When it comes to currency I think the question the rUK should be asking is whether it makes sense to have an independent Scotland in a sterling zone or to have an independent Scotland move to a euro zone (as Ireland has done). I cant really see how the answer can emphatically be the latter which is what Osborne et al seem to be implicitly suggesting (or at least risking).
When it comes to currency I think the question the rUK should be asking is whether it makes sense to have an independent Scotland in a sterling zone or to have an independent Scotland move to a euro zone (as Ireland has done). I cant really see how the answer can emphatically be the latter which is what Osborne et al seem to be implicitly suggesting (or at least risking).
but relying on the political establishment of rUK to be bluffing over use of Sterling does strike me as brinksmanship of a high order.
But again, I think that's missing the point. All the SNP need is for the Scottish public to believe, for now, that the rUK politicians are bluffing. If after a "Yes" vote, even if the UK politicians turn round and say "we really weren't bluffing, we're not letting you stay in sterling", then that won't matter to the SNP because they would already have got what they wanted. They can then say that, because the Westminster politicians are being unreasonable, Scotland will just have to create its own currency, which is probably what they privately want anyway.
but it's not just Osborne's assertions is it? It's Labour's and the Lib Dems' too
We're supposed to be surprised the economics frontmen of other two big unionist parties who support No are falling in line behind Osborne and supporting him? Nope. No surprise here. Nor are they themselves particularly popular if truth be told. I know, the No campaign don't like to hear that. Unless of course it's when they quote those unpopularity figures themselves when they aren't banging away about Independence. Funny that.
Mr Justice Coulson today became the third High Court Judge (the others being Jeremy Baker & Wilkie JJ) to pass a whole life order since the judgment of the Strasbourg court in Vinter. By contrast, only two High Court Judges (Sweeney & Flaux JJ) have claimed that it is unlawful to do so. We must await the judgment of the Court of Appeal in McLoughlin and others for the issue to be resolved.
The catsuit wearing Saddam saluter is on the No side. Why am I not surprised you didn't know that.
Actually on another note and apologies if I have missed this or if it is blindingly obvious, but what would happen to the current Scottish MPs in the (English) parliament following a Yes vote? They would be foreign nationals would they not? Is there any law that says their status would be one thing or another?
Sorry will look at any answers later as must dash.
Surely joining the eurozone should be Scotlands plan?
The problems of the eurozone countries arose from incontinent borrowing. Countries that balanced budgets coped well. If Scotland were to balance its budget and cut back spending when tax revenues fell short of expenditure, then it could work.
The problems of a Euro union are not fundamentally different to a union with rUK Sterling. A Euro using Scotland would get swift entry into the EU and would have a lender of last resort.
When it comes to currency I think the question the rUK should be asking is whether it makes sense to have an independent Scotland in a sterling zone or to have an independent Scotland move to a euro zone (as Ireland has done). I cant really see how the answer can emphatically be the latter which is what Osborne et al seem to be implicitly suggesting (or at least risking).
But I am getting increasingly frustrated by the abysmal handling of the whole campaign by the SNP.
You'll forgive me if I don't share that kipper council of despair with seventh months to go, the polls tightening and the 'best' the No campaign have to offer the scottish public being Osborne making assertions on a subject that a mere 2% of the scottish public thought was most important.
I wasn't despondent when labour were beating the SNP by double figures months out from 2011 and I'm not despondent now. Hard work is still required but today is a repeat of the same scaremongering we've been dealing with since 2012. More intense perhaps but still nothing new. I don't expect to be asked on currency when leafleting that much more than now and it's very, very few times as it is. It really isn't anywhere near as big an issue as the No campaign were praying it would be and if this is all they have then they are the ones in trouble come the referendum.
Osborne has dealt the nationalist cause a splintering blow. The sunlight of truth and hard economic reality has at last been shone on Salmond's reckless plans whereupon they will shrivel and die. What sane Scot would want to live in a nation that trades with a pirated currency? That would be like living in a pariah state!
Wythenshawe: wrong region (for now at least) and wrong demographics (for now at least) but still...hopefully something interesting will come out of it seeing as the political class / telly media aren't going to allow by-elections anywhere more fun.
After the No vote, I look forward to Cameron's poll boost from holding the Union tight and seeing off Wee Eck, "the finest politician we've seen this past thousand years..."
Although Scotland's revenge in February 2015 will be to open the sluices on Hadrian's wall...and wash the English out through the Thames.
Comments
If the No campaign is playing the game on the politics of fear it may well work with the slabs.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26166794
It is worth looking at those with the highest likes. The most popular, with 554, is this:
"What is it with Ms Sturgeon and "bullying" ?
It seems that every time she's told she can't have something (in this case, the pound), she says Scotland is being "bullied".
No, you're not being "bullied", you're being told "no". But she seems to be trying to redefine the word "bullying" in an attempt to win her argument, and that's not much of a way to win an argument."
Pretty much all of the most popular are in a similar vein. Either a lot of English are linking into this story or the polling is going to be different from here on.
Anyone who believes for a minute that Osborne, Balls and Alexander are going to change their position on this should look at those comments.
Funniest post of the day.
100% Unspoofable.
Mail comments section next please.
Just a quick note.. I know I have left home and am renting a flat, but can I come home for dinner every day?
Love
Scotland x
PS Ill pay Dad back that money I owe when I can
*Waves happily* Until the flag gets damp from all the f****** rain in Germany
Does the Right Honourable 'Wee Eck' Salmond, MSP intend to keep Edinburgh as the capital city of Scotland or is he planning to borrow Bath Spa as his new first city post indepretendence?
As a supporter of independence I may well be right. Interesting politics.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26181569
There will be no court action if the party simply follows its own rules, or if there is a realistic prospect of mediation succeeding. In the meantime, Lord Rennard is still waiting to see the report of Alistair Webster’s investigation, as was promised to him. He was, however, informed by Alistair Webster personally that the report’s only decision was that there should be no further action, as there was insufficient evidence to hold a disciplinary hearing. Any lawful party action and any mediation will have to reflect this.
http://www.libdemvoice.org/statement-by-lord-rennard-2-38217.html
So is Rennard 'toast'? Bit of a tricky one for Clegg's amusing ostrich faction of spinners.
Tick, tock.
Emotion is Salmond's only pull methinks. Might still be enough, but I think it's an uphill task.
Devo super max within 5/6 years and a reduction in Scots UK MPs to 30 odd?
http://www.cityam.com/blog/1392196610/independent-scotland-should-use-pound-without-englands-permission-heres-why
http://www.cityam.com/blog/1392289544/osbornes-claims-scotland-couldnt-use-pound-dont-stack
But not necessarily any election soon until the new electoral law is passed? Paddy Power has a market on the date of the next Italian election but I'm not sure I spot any value just yet. Worth keeping an eye on it though because they were offering free money on Berlusconi running for a party that doesnt exist last year, they clearly dont follow these things very closely which offers good opportunities to make some pocket money (depending on your personal betting limits with them!).
Shouldn't you be spinning for Lansley to get the EU commissioners job after your prediction that he would be PM was 'less than optimal', shall we say.
Where's Andrea when you need him?
Still it might be postive for Scots - would keep Brown out of office
"Economist George Selgin has pointed out that not having a lender of last resort has actually been a positive for dollarized economies as "by doing away with, or at least greatly limiting, any prospect of a bailout, it has caused creditors and banks to behave more prudently. "
Just rename Airdrie Savings Bank.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-26171896
A brief reprieve for the muslims then! Damn Paddies.
I don't think Andrea is a Renzi man. Probably even less so after he negotiated last month's electoral deal with Silvio's party.
Why does success in Italian politics always seem to rely on getting into bed with Silvio?
All I keep getting are adverts for Mein Kampf deluxe edition and BNP membership
The attitude seems to be that if it doesn't affect the opinion polls then it doesn't matter.
History begins again on Sep 19th.
Or not, when the SNP are gubbed
Omar Bakri is proud of him apparently...
Phew!
Does quoting yourself count?
Oh
Independence means exactly that, with all the risks, and all the opportunities that entails.
He's posturing. Cammie does it all the time. Cast Iron Referendum? Forgotten about that already have you? What about every single time Cammie's own MPs have humiliated him when they finally realised they were being taken for gullible fools by the posturing? The EU flounce. Lords Reform and Boundary changes. Syria. The immigration vote. The Referendum Bill. Remember that one? So you'll forgive those of us who don't view Osborne or their unionist helpers pronouncements and spin with the rose tinted glasses the PB tories do.
You can assert away just as much as Osborne did but that won't make all the spin true and it certainly won't persuade the scottish public. Not that the PB tories and scottish tory surgers ever have much chance of that to be fair.
At one point, Mr Osborne said the SNP were behaving like the angry party in a divorce. Actually the argument feels not so much like wife vs husband as like teenager vs parent. The SNP is taking the position of teenager (“If you don’t give me every single thing I want, it’s like TOTALLY UNFAIR”). Mr Osborne, meanwhile, is taking the position of parent (“You’ll do as you’re told, or face the consequences. Look, I’m only saying it for your own good”).
As we see here demonstrated, hourly...
Bright lads aren't they?
I'm sure someone like you giving it large about what *will* happen wouldn't turn out to be a gutless blusterer who runs for the hills when asked to back up their blethers.
Oh.
See what I mean?
LOL
How bizarre and totally unexpected.
Whatever could it possibly signify?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_nMMffZ3eU
So we keep the Queen, we remain in NATO, our armed forces are magically going to remain the same (except no nuclear weapons of course), we keep building rUK warships for them, we keep the same arrangements that allow us to have "free" (for an ever diminishing number of students but hey) tertiary education, we keep the BBC (sort of), we keep the same currency, we keep the same benefits (except even better with no nasty bedroom tax), we keep the same pension entitlements etc etc.
Having to start a new currency with a new country does not fit that mold so it has been rejected. Nothing to scare the horses. Unfortunately it appears that George has opened the stable door.
*chuckles*
If LDs lose deposit in Wythenshawe by election, it will be 8th time in 15 such contests post-2010. They are 7/4 to lose 150 deposits in GE
Guardian politics @GdnPolitics 2h
Ukip and Tories fight for second in Wythenshawe and Sale East byelection http://bit.ly/1oqkTR4
*chuckles*
Mick I know you are suffering today because of the blow dealt to your cause by Osborne and the rest of the Westminster establishment but linking to left wing garbage about UKIP in an attempt to produce a squirrel moment really is an act of desperation.
On topic, I'm not sure what the No campaign are meant to do. If they keep quiet, they get criticised for invisibility - and Darling isn't particularly visible. If they point out the risks and pitfalls of independence, they get criticised for threatening and bullying Scotland.
The answer is, of course, to make the positive case for Scotland to remain in the UK, as both proud Scots and proud Britons too - that these two aren't mutually exclusive and that identity and emotional attachment is rooted in both. I can't avoid the conclusion that too many politicians do run scared of Salmond, though. He's not invulnerable - they just don't know how to handle him.
On an aside, I recognise Easterross' description of Scots - and the Scottish psyche - reacting to what they perceive others telling them what they can/can't do from my time in Scotland. Scots are passionate and proud people. However, in my experience, they are also rational, so whilst they may be aggravated now, they might not carry that all the way to the polling both in 7 months time.
This, presumably, is why the No campaign are getting these arguments in now, early, and waiting to see what the polling reaction is. Right now, they can afford to take a few tactical risks.
What's the plan B if it turns out the Westminster politicians aren't bluffing?
My prediction for turnout was about 30% so maybe it'll be a little higher than that.
I think the LDs will be on a knife-edge re. saving/losing their deposit, probably 100 votes either way.
In Corby the LDs needed 1,784 votes to save their deposit and got 1,770:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corby_by-election,_2012
Right now, this is about Salmond maximising his vote in any way, shape or form he can. As SO says, he only needs to win once.
ROFL...
or
'Parent refuses to fund Scotland's Ibiza trip shock'
SNP: 'its so unfair. we must be adopted. Our real parents couldn't possibly treat us like this''
Scotland has a disproportionate amount of nuclear "facilities". No debt; no Sellafield/Aldermaston. Maybe the new alliance will be with Galway's Feinians and Bradford's al-Qeda.
:snats-angry-and-mad:
::feck-them-orf'::
static.bbc.co.uk/images/ic/qe/vapps_galleries/ucs_606//bang/admin/ask_yan/why_do_humans_take_so_long_adulthood/12532011813653862649_1.jpg
I stress I am wholly neutral whether Scotland votes yes or no ( I'd be entitled to a passport I believe if it is a yes), but relying on the political establishment of rUK to be bluffing over use of Sterling does strike me as brinksmanship of a high order.
It's all beginning to get a little bit silly here now (although I have enjoyed some of the posts).
The problem is that a lot of English posters aren't really that bothered about the referendum result. I personally would be sad to see the Scots leave, but I accept it's totally up to them. But to some Scots, it's the be-all and end-all, so making fun of it is felt as insult.
I wonder what I'd think if Lincolnshire wanted to leave the UK. A swift return to the middle ages would probably ensue (agriculture and very little industry), but it would be an adventure for sure. And mockery would probably propel to vote yes, just to annoy the mockers.
Mick I know you are suffering today because of the blow dealt to your cause by Osborne and the rest of the Westminster establishment
Of course. Having a toxic incompetent like Osbrowne all over the scottish news is a crushing blow indeed. So soul destroying I merely wish we could suffer all the more by having him all over the scottish news every week from now until September 18th.
It's almost as crushing a blow as having the massed ranks of gullible PB tories shrieking away since they self-evidently believe anything Osbrowne says without question. Didn't turn out too well for them during the omnishambles but since they all have such short memories it's best not to upset them again with that.
I must admit I didn't realise that Dairy of a Conservative was such 'left wing garbage' but if it's the staggers article bothering you then perhaps outlining why might be more useful.
Farage was wise to be wary of those newer kipper converts jumping on the bandwagon so don't expect me not to respond to their idiocy.
To be fair most of them are motivated by hatred of the Scottish. Always has been on PB.
Of course. Having a toxic incompetent like Osbrowne all over the scottish news is a crushing blow indeed. So soul destroying I merely wish we could suffer all the more by having him all over the scottish news every week from now until September 18th.
It's almost as crushing a blow as having the massed ranks of gullible PB tories shrieking away since they self-evidently believe anything Osbrowne says without question. Didn't turn out too well for them during the omnishambles but since they all have such short memories it's best not to upset them again with that.
I must admit I didn't realise that Dairy of a Conservative was such 'left wing garbage' but if it's the staggers article bothering you then perhaps outlining why might be more useful.
Farage was wise to be wary of those newer kipper converts jumping on the bandwagon so don't expect me not to respond to their idiocy.
Mick, when independence comes (surely a certainty) what honour will you expect to pick up as a result of your tireless efforts on here to help us understand how misguided we are?
Sir, I salute your....
Montenegro uses the Euro as currency, without permission. There would be no reserve bank, or say in monetary policy, but there is the possibility.
Reneging on debt would be a very stupid move. Quite apart from making borrowing near impossible, it would be a bar to EU entry. There may also be a legal claim by rUK to crown assets in Scotland such as hospitals, defence bases, perhaps even Holyrood parliament building itself. After all these were bought with UK funds via UK gilts. Fail to pay your mortgage and the bayliffs come calling...
Of course. Having a toxic incompetent like Osbrowne all over the scottish news is a crushing blow indeed. So soul destroying I merely wish we could suffer all the more by having him all over the scottish news every week from now until September 18th.
It's almost as crushing a blow as having the massed ranks of gullible PB tories shrieking away since they self-evidently believe anything Osbrowne says without question. Didn't turn out too well for them during the omnishambles but since they all have such short memories it's best not to upset them again with that.
I must admit I didn't realise that Dairy of a Conservative was such 'left wing garbage' but if it's the staggers article bothering you then perhaps outlining why might be more useful.
Farage was wise to be wary of those newer kipper converts jumping on the bandwagon so don't expect me not to respond to their idiocy.
The trouble is that I want Yes to win. But I am getting increasingly frustrated by the abysmal handling of the whole campaign by the SNP. A great case could have been made for independence but the inept way in which Salmond and his colleagues have gone about it have made it far less likely that Scotland will get the result she deserves.
Whatever the truth or otherwise of Osborne's claims (and I happen unfortunately to think he is right in this case) the SNP should have had this whole currency issue mailed down months ago.
So apologies for my sniping. It is born out of frustration at seeing such a great opportunity squandered.
Still, something to argue about I guess.
http://www.libdemvoice.org/aldcs-byelection-report-6-february-2014-38205.html
Sorry will look at any answers later as must dash.
The problems of the eurozone countries arose from incontinent borrowing. Countries that balanced budgets coped well. If Scotland were to balance its budget and cut back spending when tax revenues fell short of expenditure, then it could work.
The problems of a Euro union are not fundamentally different to a union with rUK Sterling. A Euro using Scotland would get swift entry into the EU and would have a lender of last resort.
I wasn't despondent when labour were beating the SNP by double figures months out from 2011 and I'm not despondent now. Hard work is still required but today is a repeat of the same scaremongering we've been dealing with since 2012. More intense perhaps but still nothing new. I don't expect to be asked on currency when leafleting that much more than now and it's very, very few times as it is. It really isn't anywhere near as big an issue as the No campaign were praying it would be and if this is all they have then they are the ones in trouble come the referendum.
Wythenshawe: wrong region (for now at least) and wrong demographics (for now at least) but still...hopefully something interesting will come out of it seeing as the political class / telly media aren't going to allow by-elections anywhere more fun.
when i voted at 6pm, the register looked about 20% full and i was the only one in the polling station.
Manchester Central -17.2%
Rotherham -13.9%
Middlesbrough -10.0%
South Shields -12.8%
Although Scotland's revenge in February 2015 will be to open the sluices on Hadrian's wall...and wash the English out through the Thames.