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Bad news for Liz Truss fans, all three of them – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,216
edited September 2023 in General
Bad news for Liz Truss fans, all three of them – politicalbetting.com

Liz Truss became prime minister one year ago. Do you think she did well or badly as prime minister?All BritonsWell: 7%Badly: 81%Con votersWell: 11%Badly: 80%https://t.co/8B236fmz1V pic.twitter.com/1ycxtD49nb

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Comments

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769

    Astonishing to think our current Prime Miniser lost to Truss, who in turn lost to a lettuce.

    She was beaten by our Greens.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,138
    There are 3 Liz Truss fans?

    I’ve got

    1) Liz Truss
    2) ????
  • ajbajb Posts: 147
    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    Yeah. Which is a warning for interpreting all polls: never believe a poll is accurate to 1%, because at least 5% of respondents are jokers.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    The funny thing is that Sunak has been no better, really.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,027
    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.

    Will Starmer even try, I wonder.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    edited September 2023
    ajb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    Yeah. Which is a warning for interpreting all polls: never believe a poll is accurate to 1%, because at least 5% of respondents are jokers.
    If we assume that, it means just 2% of people think she did OK.

    That would be Luckyguy (and possibly EPG). Possibly also Keir Starmer and his fan club, which we assured by our resident Jezist consists of four donkeys in a field somewhere near Surrey.

    After that we're struggling.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,475
    edited September 2023
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.

    Will Starmer even try, I wonder.
    But you also need to plan it thoroughly, and implement it halfway competently.
    It would have been a darn sight less difficult with those provisos in place.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.

    Will Starmer even try, I wonder.
    Slight difference in electorate for that "democratic mandate", mind.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,591
    FPT
    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Guess where I am folks. First correct answer get a half litre of Berliner Pilsner!


    It’s bloody boiling.

    The Bundestag, in Berlin.

    Fricking perishing when I went there six years ago but it was Christmastime.
    I’m there next week. 30s the first 2 days then will turn cooler.

    Guess where I am





    Having sour grapes about @northern_monkey and his visit to Berlin?
    The worrying thing is I'm in Berlin next week - decided I really should visit the Pergamon before it closes for 4-10 years.

    Why is Berlin suddenly so popular.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,475
    EPG said:

    The funny thing is that Sunak has been no better, really.

    Excuse me for being less than amused.
    We've the prospect of another 15 months of this.
  • DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.

    Will Starmer even try, I wonder.
    Truly great Tory Prime Ministers like Margaret Thatcher and David Cameron stick with their Chancellors when first elected not fire them at the first sign of trouble.

    PS the votes of 81,326 Tory members really isn't a democratic mandate to change the country.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587
    EPG said:

    The funny thing is that Sunak has been no better, really.

    He's not very good. But having people not freak out at how bad you are is a key skill.
  • DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.

    Will Starmer even try, I wonder.
    Truly great Tory Prime Ministers like Margaret Thatcher and David Cameron stick with their Chancellors when first elected not fire them at the first sign of trouble.

    PS the votes of 81,326 Tory members really isn't a democratic mandate to change the country.
    If you want a say in who the Tories pick as their leader, join the Tory party.
  • I'm not amongst the 7% by any means. But isn't the argument of a lot of them that Truss tried to break from the tired Treasury consensus that had led to stagnation in the UK, with a bold tax-cutting agenda... and she'd have made it too but for backstabbers and dismal pessimists in the financial markets, the civil service blob, and even her own party? So she failed, but did so trying to break a rotten system, whereas other recent PMs have survived longer only because they haven't even bothered trying.

    Before you pick holes in that, yes a know the argument is full of holes. I don't support it... just saying that's the argument.
  • ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    So if you exclude the 4% of Labour voters and 4% of Lib Dems who think she did well, I reckon they mean she did well for the prospects of their party you're down to 2% of the country who genuinely think she did well.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,100
    From the Times article linked earlier

    Cabinet ministers, however, privately believe that it is time for Sunak to cast aside his natural caution and return to the more bullish approach he took at the end of the Tory leadership contest against Liz Truss.

    The contest he lost to Liz Truss

    Before she was beaten by a lettuce.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587
    edited September 2023
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.
    I don't think this is remotely correct. If you're challenging the consensus you need to do it when you are strongest, which is more than when your 'mandate', whatever that means, is strongest (worth remembering that opponents would say she had no mandate worthy of the name - I think the word itself is pretty pointless).

    It's about being prepared to take on the challenge. She didn't do that, not even the 'what if people question this basic point?' stage. She hadn't prepared her MPs for it either, not even testing the waters to see how much she could carry them with her.

    She might not have succeeded either way, and I'm still a little surprised they didn't tough it out which probably wouldn't have been much worse in the long run, but she did not fail because she challenged the consensus and that is hard.

    It is hard, but she failed because she had no plan beyond saying 'X is a problem, also let's have some tax cuts, which will help in a way I am unable to explain'. Just a bit more time and prep and there wouldn't have been such a freak out. It rewrites things to put it all down to the inherent problem of tackling consensus.

    Let's also never forget that despite her pivot economically she ran as the continuity candidate who did not think Boris should have quit, with her claims we needed to massively change things causing a bit of dissonance.

    I'm not even saying it couldn't have worked, but it was her job to sell it, and she couldn't even survive 2 months, if she couldn't manage beyond that that itself is proof she couldn't have achieved her aims.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.

    Will Starmer even try, I wonder.
    Truly great Tory Prime Ministers like Margaret Thatcher and David Cameron stick with their Chancellors when first elected not fire them at the first sign of trouble.

    PS the votes of 81,326 Tory members really isn't a democratic mandate to change the country.
    If you want a say in who the Tories pick as their leader, join the Tory party.
    I don’t think that’s the point.

    The point is, the UK voted Johnson in in 2019 with his manifesto. Liz Truss’s legislative agenda was pretty radically different to that. Not really very democratic.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    ydoethur said:

    ajb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    Yeah. Which is a warning for interpreting all polls: never believe a poll is accurate to 1%, because at least 5% of respondents are jokers.
    If we assume that, it means just 2% of people think she did OK.

    That would be Luckyguy (and possibly EPG). Possibly also Keir Starmer and his fan club, which we assured by our resident Jezist consists of four donkeys in a field somewhere near Surrey.

    After that we're struggling.
    No, she did poorly in several ways. But I file Sunak in the same bracket. The objective tests she failed, he is failing, except for popularity among Tory MPs, and who cares about that?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,475
    edited September 2023
    Ghedebrav said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.

    Will Starmer even try, I wonder.
    Truly great Tory Prime Ministers like Margaret Thatcher and David Cameron stick with their Chancellors when first elected not fire them at the first sign of trouble.

    PS the votes of 81,326 Tory members really isn't a democratic mandate to change the country.
    If you want a say in who the Tories pick as their leader, join the Tory party.
    I don’t think that’s the point.

    The point is, the UK voted Johnson in in 2019 with his manifesto. Liz Truss’s legislative agenda was pretty radically different to that. Not really very democratic.
    Boris' agenda was pretty different, too. So is Sunak's.
    So the "mandate" point is moot.
  • I'm not amongst the 7% by any means. But isn't the argument of a lot of them that Truss tried to break from the tired Treasury consensus that had led to stagnation in the UK, with a bold tax-cutting agenda... and she'd have made it too but for backstabbers and dismal pessimists in the financial markets, the civil service blob, and even her own party? So she failed, but did so trying to break a rotten system, whereas other recent PMs have survived longer only because they haven't even bothered trying.

    Before you pick holes in that, yes a know the argument is full of holes. I don't support it... just saying that's the argument.

    The downside with that argument is that Truss and Kwarteng ended up reinforcing the consensus. Even if their ideas were right, their choice not to set out their workings meant that nobody trusted them. One of the reasons Sunak and Hunt are being as dismal as they are is that they are having to overcompensate.

    There was a fair bit of foreboding about the flakiness of Truss and Trussonomics before she got the job... Did anyone think she would do quite as badly as she did?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.

    Will Starmer even try, I wonder.
    Truly great Tory Prime Ministers like Margaret Thatcher and David Cameron stick with their Chancellors when first elected not fire them at the first sign of trouble.

    PS the votes of 81,326 Tory members really isn't a democratic mandate to change the country.
    IMHO a vote of party members is far less democratic than a vote of elected MPs. All political parties should recognise this.
    I feel like they are stuck with the system they have now - even though no one outside the party regards it as democratic anyway, any change to take away the member vote will be accused of being even less democratic and outrageous.

    Some even quesiton what's the point of being a party member if you don't get a vote for leader, despite how recent an innovation it is, and how membership is well down on what it used to be. Admittedly the Corbyn vote did see a surge in membership, but the Tories have not seen that since the system was implemented.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,540
    edited September 2023
    I think she was a genius.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587
    dixiedean said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.

    Will Starmer even try, I wonder.
    But you also need to plan it thoroughly, and implement it halfway competently.
    It would have been a darn sight less difficult with those provisos in place.
    A much more concise way of putting it.

    To frame it was 'she failed because its hard to challenge the consensus' takes away her agency and makes it seem an inevitability that she went so soon and failed.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.

    Will Starmer even try, I wonder.
    Truly great Tory Prime Ministers like Margaret Thatcher and David Cameron stick with their Chancellors when first elected not fire them at the first sign of trouble.

    PS the votes of 81,326 Tory members really isn't a democratic mandate to change the country.
    IMHO a vote of party members is far less democratic than a vote of elected MPs. All political parties should recognise this.
    I feel like they are stuck with the system they have now - even though no one outside the party regards it as democratic anyway, any change to take away the member vote will be accused of being even less democratic and outrageous.

    Some even quesiton what's the point of being a party member if you don't get a vote for leader, despite how recent an innovation it is, and how membership is well down on what it used to be. Admittedly the Corbyn vote did see a surge in membership, but the Tories have not seen that since the system was implemented.
    Party members used to choose their PPCs and MPs, nowadays HQ hands them a shiny 23-year old Oxbridge grad who grew up halfway across the country.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587
    edited September 2023
    I feel like this article popped up in my recommendations due to visiting PB.

    How truffle ruined absolutely everything

    If I shut my eyes, I can remember a time when I’d order a plain pasta pomodoro and mac and cheese came just as it was. My chips were sprinkled only with a dash of flaky sea salt. A much simpler time.

    A time before truffle.

    Then, truffle took over, sending the London food scene into a state of mushroom-induced delirium. Now, seemingly every morsel on every menu is swimming in a thick pungent oil or is scattered with shavings of the crusty, nobbly little creatures. My TikTok For You Page is an explosion of sweaty cheese wheels and twirling forkfuls of truffley pastas. ‘You’ve got to try this new spot in Soho,’ an influencer’s voice proclaims. ‘We had the truffle fries, the truffle pasta and this incredible truffle cocktail with a truffle emulsion.’


    https://www.timeout.com/london/food-restaurant-truffle-takeover?utm_source=pocket-newtab-en-gb
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,138

    I'm not amongst the 7% by any means. But isn't the argument of a lot of them that Truss tried to break from the tired Treasury consensus that had led to stagnation in the UK, with a bold tax-cutting agenda... and she'd have made it too but for backstabbers and dismal pessimists in the financial markets, the civil service blob, and even her own party? So she failed, but did so trying to break a rotten system, whereas other recent PMs have survived longer only because they haven't even bothered trying.

    Before you pick holes in that, yes a know the argument is full of holes. I don't support it... just saying that's the argument.

    Many are the people who can see that change is required. Those who have a fucking clue on how to achieve that change are a small subset.
  • Sunak sucking up to a Fascist.

  • There are 3 Liz Truss fans?

    I’ve got

    1) Liz Truss
    2) ????

    With LT's spouse PLUS our own Luckyguy, that's the hat trick right there.

    Add a few more PBers, close family members and some of the more politically active among the anti-Woke BD/SM community, and she's cracked double digits (numerically speaking).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587
    Scott_xP said:

    From the Times article linked earlier

    Cabinet ministers, however, privately believe that it is time for Sunak to cast aside his natural caution and return to the more bullish approach he took at the end of the Tory leadership contest against Liz Truss.

    The contest he lost to Liz Truss

    Before she was beaten by a lettuce.

    She wasn't even in direct competition with the lettuce and still lost, that's the sad thing.

    They probably should have stuck with her to be honest. The reputational hit of 3 PMs in 2 months has been so devastating, with no countering narrative of positive recovery since to make up for it.
  • ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    So if you exclude the 4% of Labour voters and 4% of Lib Dems who think she did well, I reckon they mean she did well for the prospects of their party you're down to 2% of the country who genuinely think she did well.
    Maybe. Although another possibility is that there are some people who think Britain is in a bit of a state and needs shaking up. They quite liked that Truss tried to do that, and now she's gone they are planning to vote for a change of government.

    I know it's illogical in the sense that the type of change being offered by centre-left opposition parties is very different to that Truss was offering.

    It's pretty kooky, but you do get a few people with that kind of view. I distinctly remember a voter at the last London mayoral elections proudly proclaiming on the doorstep that he wanted change so would be voting for the Lib Dem GLA candidate, and Laurence Fox for Mayor. Takes all sorts.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587
    Starmer could more successfully transform the country if he wants to, precisely because he doesn't have an expectation that he needs to undertake performative radical change to prove he's taking on the consensus or whatever. He could just state in boring fashion we need to reform something, and people might not even notice it's radical.

    Sunak is boring too, but like Truss he has the party that wants to be revolutionaries to mollify. Starmer's revolutionary base are too tuckered out by defeat to pressure him to take performative action, so if we're lucky he'll do something substantive.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,155
    edited September 2023

    There are 3 Liz Truss fans?

    I’ve got

    1) Liz Truss
    2) ????

    Mr Truss (whatever his name)
    Mr “she’ll surprise on the upside” Leon
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653

    I'm not amongst the 7% by any means. But isn't the argument of a lot of them that Truss tried to break from the tired Treasury consensus that had led to stagnation in the UK, with a bold tax-cutting agenda... and she'd have made it too but for backstabbers and dismal pessimists in the financial markets, the civil service blob, and even her own party? So she failed, but did so trying to break a rotten system, whereas other recent PMs have survived longer only because they haven't even bothered trying.

    Before you pick holes in that, yes a know the argument is full of holes. I don't support it... just saying that's the argument.

    Many are the people who can see that change is required. Those who have a fucking clue on how to achieve that change are a small subset.
    Almost all countries like the UK, and a bunch of others (Japan/China), are dealing with the same doom loop. We spend less of our lives working, so we're forced to save more income for retirement (including through the tax system), so it pays us less to work, so we reduce the time we spend working.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,155
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.

    Will Starmer even try, I wonder.
    Having spent months ‘campaigning’, she thought she had, whereas of course the electorate she had been campaigning in was tiny and unrepresentative, and in the real world she had no mandate at all. That difference explains a lot.
  • kle4 said:

    I feel like this article popped up in my recommendations due to visiting PB.

    How truffle ruined absolutely everything

    If I shut my eyes, I can remember a time when I’d order a plain pasta pomodoro and mac and cheese came just as it was. My chips were sprinkled only with a dash of flaky sea salt. A much simpler time.

    A time before truffle.

    Then, truffle took over, sending the London food scene into a state of mushroom-induced delirium. Now, seemingly every morsel on every menu is swimming in a thick pungent oil or is scattered with shavings of the crusty, nobbly little creatures. My TikTok For You Page is an explosion of sweaty cheese wheels and twirling forkfuls of truffley pastas. ‘You’ve got to try this new spot in Soho,’ an influencer’s voice proclaims. ‘We had the truffle fries, the truffle pasta and this incredible truffle cocktail with a truffle emulsion.’


    https://www.timeout.com/london/food-restaurant-truffle-takeover?utm_source=pocket-newtab-en-gb

    Anyone giving an incorrect name for macaroni cheese should be taken out and shot.

    Anyone using the phrase "food scene" should also be taken out and shot.

    Not that I have anything against the author.
  • I'm not amongst the 7% by any means. But isn't the argument of a lot of them that Truss tried to break from the tired Treasury consensus that had led to stagnation in the UK, with a bold tax-cutting agenda... and she'd have made it too but for backstabbers and dismal pessimists in the financial markets, the civil service blob, and even her own party? So she failed, but did so trying to break a rotten system, whereas other recent PMs have survived longer only because they haven't even bothered trying.

    Before you pick holes in that, yes a know the argument is full of holes. I don't support it... just saying that's the argument.

    The downside with that argument is that Truss and Kwarteng ended up reinforcing the consensus. Even if their ideas were right, their choice not to set out their workings meant that nobody trusted them. One of the reasons Sunak and Hunt are being as dismal as they are is that they are having to overcompensate.

    There was a fair bit of foreboding about the flakiness of Truss and Trussonomics before she got the job... Did anyone think she would do quite as badly as she did?
    I think a lot of people - me very much included - wrongly thought that her problem was she'd find it impossible to deliver on the wild promises of the leadership campaign, and would inevitably disappoint her followers by bowing to the practical realities of governing in difficult economic times.

    As it turned out, she failed due to recklessly cracking on and trying to do what she had foolishly promised in the face of all reason and sense. You do almost have to admire it in a sick way.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    kle4 said:

    I feel like this article popped up in my recommendations due to visiting PB.

    How truffle ruined absolutely everything

    If I shut my eyes, I can remember a time when I’d order a plain pasta pomodoro and mac and cheese came just as it was. My chips were sprinkled only with a dash of flaky sea salt. A much simpler time.

    A time before truffle.

    Then, truffle took over, sending the London food scene into a state of mushroom-induced delirium. Now, seemingly every morsel on every menu is swimming in a thick pungent oil or is scattered with shavings of the crusty, nobbly little creatures. My TikTok For You Page is an explosion of sweaty cheese wheels and twirling forkfuls of truffley pastas. ‘You’ve got to try this new spot in Soho,’ an influencer’s voice proclaims. ‘We had the truffle fries, the truffle pasta and this incredible truffle cocktail with a truffle emulsion.’


    https://www.timeout.com/london/food-restaurant-truffle-takeover?utm_source=pocket-newtab-en-gb

    I bet her partner's a fun guy.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,155
    Sean_F said:

    I think she was a genius.

    She got her photo on the Downing Street staircase, and may get to put some of her pals on the Lords in due course, for a lot less lifetime effort than the lying clown had to put in, for sure.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587

    kle4 said:

    I feel like this article popped up in my recommendations due to visiting PB.

    How truffle ruined absolutely everything

    If I shut my eyes, I can remember a time when I’d order a plain pasta pomodoro and mac and cheese came just as it was. My chips were sprinkled only with a dash of flaky sea salt. A much simpler time.

    A time before truffle.

    Then, truffle took over, sending the London food scene into a state of mushroom-induced delirium. Now, seemingly every morsel on every menu is swimming in a thick pungent oil or is scattered with shavings of the crusty, nobbly little creatures. My TikTok For You Page is an explosion of sweaty cheese wheels and twirling forkfuls of truffley pastas. ‘You’ve got to try this new spot in Soho,’ an influencer’s voice proclaims. ‘We had the truffle fries, the truffle pasta and this incredible truffle cocktail with a truffle emulsion.’


    https://www.timeout.com/london/food-restaurant-truffle-takeover?utm_source=pocket-newtab-en-gb

    Anyone giving an incorrect name for macaroni cheese should be taken out and shot.

    Anyone using the phrase "food scene" should also be taken out and shot.

    Not that I have anything against the author.
    The article filled me with a deep, satisfying level of disdain for London food snobs though, so it achieved at least one positive thing.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,138
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I feel like this article popped up in my recommendations due to visiting PB.

    How truffle ruined absolutely everything

    If I shut my eyes, I can remember a time when I’d order a plain pasta pomodoro and mac and cheese came just as it was. My chips were sprinkled only with a dash of flaky sea salt. A much simpler time.

    A time before truffle.

    Then, truffle took over, sending the London food scene into a state of mushroom-induced delirium. Now, seemingly every morsel on every menu is swimming in a thick pungent oil or is scattered with shavings of the crusty, nobbly little creatures. My TikTok For You Page is an explosion of sweaty cheese wheels and twirling forkfuls of truffley pastas. ‘You’ve got to try this new spot in Soho,’ an influencer’s voice proclaims. ‘We had the truffle fries, the truffle pasta and this incredible truffle cocktail with a truffle emulsion.’


    https://www.timeout.com/london/food-restaurant-truffle-takeover?utm_source=pocket-newtab-en-gb

    Anyone giving an incorrect name for macaroni cheese should be taken out and shot.

    Anyone using the phrase "food scene" should also be taken out and shot.

    Not that I have anything against the author.
    The article filled me with a deep, satisfying level of disdain for London food snobs though, so it achieved at least one positive thing.
    Pre flaked Parmesan, anyone?
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,038
    edited September 2023
    Off topic (but about an important election): The Mexican election is looking more and more interesting.

    "Xóchitl Gálvez is a Mexican original. She’s a radiant, broad-faced Indigenous woman who grew up in extreme poverty, studied math over the protests of her abusive, alcoholic father, and battled her way to building a prosperous tech company and becoming a senator. Now she is rocking Mexican politics.

    Gálvez is the leading opposition candidate running to succeed President Andrés Manuel López Obrador."
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/20/mexico-presidential-elections-galvez-interview/

    Oh, and among other things she has dressed up as a T. Rex to criticize 'López Obrador’s proposed election-law changes that she claimed bring back the “Jurassic era.”'

    Running against her is Lopez Obrador's pick, former Mexico City mayor Claudia Sheinbaum. But there's more.: There may be a third significant candidate, former foreign minster Marcelo Eberard:
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/09/07/mexico-presidential-elections-sheinbaum-spoiler/

    (The drug cartels would -- probably -- prefer Sheinbaum.)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587

    Off topic (but aobut an important election): The Mexican election is looking more and more interesting.

    "Xóchitl Gálvez is a Mexican original. She’s a radiant, broad-faced Indigenous woman who grew up in extreme poverty, studied math over the protests of her abusive, alcoholic father, and battled her way to building a prosperous tech company and becoming a senator. Now she is rocking Mexican politics.

    Gálvez is the leading opposition candidate running to succeed President Andrés Manuel López Obrador."
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/20/mexico-presidential-elections-galvez-interview/

    Oh, and among other things she has dressed up as a T. Rex to criticize 'López Obrador’s proposed election-law changes that she claimed bring back the “Jurassic era.”'

    Running against her is Lopez Obrador's pick, former Mexico City mayor Claudia Sheinbaum. But there's more.: There may be a third significant candidate, former foreign minster Marcelo Eberard:
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/09/07/mexico-presidential-elections-sheinbaum-spoiler/

    (The drug cartels would -- probably -- prefer Sheinbaum.)

    Broad-faced?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,155
    edited September 2023

    kle4 said:

    I feel like this article popped up in my recommendations due to visiting PB.

    How truffle ruined absolutely everything

    If I shut my eyes, I can remember a time when I’d order a plain pasta pomodoro and mac and cheese came just as it was. My chips were sprinkled only with a dash of flaky sea salt. A much simpler time.

    A time before truffle.

    Then, truffle took over, sending the London food scene into a state of mushroom-induced delirium. Now, seemingly every morsel on every menu is swimming in a thick pungent oil or is scattered with shavings of the crusty, nobbly little creatures. My TikTok For You Page is an explosion of sweaty cheese wheels and twirling forkfuls of truffley pastas. ‘You’ve got to try this new spot in Soho,’ an influencer’s voice proclaims. ‘We had the truffle fries, the truffle pasta and this incredible truffle cocktail with a truffle emulsion.’


    https://www.timeout.com/london/food-restaurant-truffle-takeover?utm_source=pocket-newtab-en-gb

    Anyone giving an incorrect name for macaroni cheese should be taken out and shot.
    They are completely different.

    Macaroni cheese is a British main course, based on some dish from medieval Italy that Italians don’t eat any more, which was trendy in the 60s and 70s and incredibly conservative now.

    Mac and cheese is a side dish for oversize Americans for whom a giant pizza doesn’t provide enough calories on its own.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,061
    edited September 2023

    kle4 said:

    I feel like this article popped up in my recommendations due to visiting PB.

    How truffle ruined absolutely everything

    If I shut my eyes, I can remember a time when I’d order a plain pasta pomodoro and mac and cheese came just as it was. My chips were sprinkled only with a dash of flaky sea salt. A much simpler time.

    A time before truffle.

    Then, truffle took over, sending the London food scene into a state of mushroom-induced delirium. Now, seemingly every morsel on every menu is swimming in a thick pungent oil or is scattered with shavings of the crusty, nobbly little creatures. My TikTok For You Page is an explosion of sweaty cheese wheels and twirling forkfuls of truffley pastas. ‘You’ve got to try this new spot in Soho,’ an influencer’s voice proclaims. ‘We had the truffle fries, the truffle pasta and this incredible truffle cocktail with a truffle emulsion.’


    https://www.timeout.com/london/food-restaurant-truffle-takeover?utm_source=pocket-newtab-en-gb

    Anyone giving an incorrect name for macaroni cheese should be taken out and shot.

    Anyone using the phrase "food scene" should also be taken out and shot.

    Not that I have anything against the author.
    I would force feed them egg and chips and post the pictures on all the pompous foodie blogs, as befits someone who eats a raincoat.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,316

    There are 3 Liz Truss fans?

    I’ve got

    1) Liz Truss
    2) ????

    With LT's spouse PLUS our own Luckyguy, that's the hat trick right there.

    Add a few more PBers, close family members and some of the more politically active among the anti-Woke BD/SM community, and she's cracked double digits (numerically speaking).
    I wouldn’t be surprised if @Luckyguy1983 has done a Grant Shapps a couple of times and accounts for all three these days, such is his adulation.
  • kle4 said:

    Off topic (but aobut an important election): The Mexican election is looking more and more interesting.

    "Xóchitl Gálvez is a Mexican original. She’s a radiant, broad-faced Indigenous woman who grew up in extreme poverty, studied math over the protests of her abusive, alcoholic father, and battled her way to building a prosperous tech company and becoming a senator. Now she is rocking Mexican politics.

    Gálvez is the leading opposition candidate running to succeed President Andrés Manuel López Obrador."
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/20/mexico-presidential-elections-galvez-interview/

    Oh, and among other things she has dressed up as a T. Rex to criticize 'López Obrador’s proposed election-law changes that she claimed bring back the “Jurassic era.”'

    Running against her is Lopez Obrador's pick, former Mexico City mayor Claudia Sheinbaum. But there's more.: There may be a third significant candidate, former foreign minster Marcelo Eberard:
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/09/07/mexico-presidential-elections-sheinbaum-spoiler/

    (The drug cartels would -- probably -- prefer Sheinbaum.)

    Broad-faced?
    Presume it’s not very subtle code for looks indigenous.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,360

    I'm not amongst the 7% by any means. But isn't the argument of a lot of them that Truss tried to break from the tired Treasury consensus that had led to stagnation in the UK, with a bold tax-cutting agenda... and she'd have made it too but for backstabbers and dismal pessimists in the financial markets, the civil service blob, and even her own party? So she failed, but did so trying to break a rotten system, whereas other recent PMs have survived longer only because they haven't even bothered trying.

    Before you pick holes in that, yes a know the argument is full of holes. I don't support it... just saying that's the argument.

    The downside with that argument is that Truss and Kwarteng ended up reinforcing the consensus. Even if their ideas were right, their choice not to set out their workings meant that nobody trusted them. One of the reasons Sunak and Hunt are being as dismal as they are is that they are having to overcompensate.

    There was a fair bit of foreboding about the flakiness of Truss and Trussonomics before she got the job... Did anyone think she would do quite as badly as she did?
    I thought she'd exceed expectations, boy was I wrong.
  • kle4 said:

    Starmer could more successfully transform the country if he wants to, precisely because he doesn't have an expectation that he needs to undertake performative radical change to prove he's taking on the consensus or whatever. He could just state in boring fashion we need to reform something, and people might not even notice it's radical.

    Sunak is boring too, but like Truss he has the party that wants to be revolutionaries to mollify. Starmer's revolutionary base are too tuckered out by defeat to pressure him to take performative action, so if we're lucky he'll do something substantive.

    The other factor is the Jim Hacker Prime Ministerial Broadcast rule. If you want to be radical, you have to sound boring, and vice versa.

    That gives Starmer and Reeves space to be quite spicy, if they want to. We won't know until after the event, because it will sound boring anyway. But something like Reeve's plan to list government borrowing against assets built as a result could help in lots of ways whilst sounding dull and responsible.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,027
    dixiedean said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.

    Will Starmer even try, I wonder.
    But you also need to plan it thoroughly, and implement it halfway competently.
    It would have been a darn sight less difficult with those provisos in place.

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.

    Will Starmer even try, I wonder.
    Truly great Tory Prime Ministers like Margaret Thatcher and David Cameron stick with their Chancellors when first elected not fire them at the first sign of trouble.

    PS the votes of 81,326 Tory members really isn't a democratic mandate to change the country.
    Oh I agree and that was a part of the problem. If she really wanted to change the shape of the envelope she needed to go to the country and make her case.
    But I don’t agree with those that say it just needed more planning. The truth is that all our governments work within ever narrower parameters and can actually change less and less.
    It needs extraordinary leadership to change this. And I don’t see a hint of this in our current politics.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587

    kle4 said:

    Off topic (but aobut an important election): The Mexican election is looking more and more interesting.

    "Xóchitl Gálvez is a Mexican original. She’s a radiant, broad-faced Indigenous woman who grew up in extreme poverty, studied math over the protests of her abusive, alcoholic father, and battled her way to building a prosperous tech company and becoming a senator. Now she is rocking Mexican politics.

    Gálvez is the leading opposition candidate running to succeed President Andrés Manuel López Obrador."
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/20/mexico-presidential-elections-galvez-interview/

    Oh, and among other things she has dressed up as a T. Rex to criticize 'López Obrador’s proposed election-law changes that she claimed bring back the “Jurassic era.”'

    Running against her is Lopez Obrador's pick, former Mexico City mayor Claudia Sheinbaum. But there's more.: There may be a third significant candidate, former foreign minster Marcelo Eberard:
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/09/07/mexico-presidential-elections-sheinbaum-spoiler/

    (The drug cartels would -- probably -- prefer Sheinbaum.)

    Broad-faced?
    Presume it’s not very subtle code for looks indigenous.
    I'd have assumed so, except they included it right next to describing her indigenous! Making it either very weird code, or completely redundant, since other than, maybe, 'fresh-faced', when would we typically see such a description.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,100
    IanB2 said:

    There are 3 Liz Truss fans?

    I’ve got

    1) Liz Truss
    2) ????

    Mr Truss (whatever his name)
    Mr “she’ll surprise on the upside” Leon
    Isobel Oakshott was a fan...
  • eek said:

    FPT

    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Guess where I am folks. First correct answer get a half litre of Berliner Pilsner!


    It’s bloody boiling.

    The Bundestag, in Berlin.

    Fricking perishing when I went there six years ago but it was Christmastime.
    I’m there next week. 30s the first 2 days then will turn cooler.

    Guess where I am





    Having sour grapes about @northern_monkey and his visit to Berlin?
    The worrying thing is I'm in Berlin next week - decided I really should visit the Pergamon before it closes for 4-10 years.

    Why is Berlin suddenly so popular.
    We’re going to the Babylon Berlin concert which I’m very much looking forward to. Other fun will be had of course! There’s a couple of Munch exhibitions I think, and a new Käthe Kollwitz museum I’d like to see.

    https://www.visitberlin.de/en/event/babylon-berlin-concert
  • Scott_xP said:

    IanB2 said:

    There are 3 Liz Truss fans?

    I’ve got

    1) Liz Truss
    2) ????

    Mr Truss (whatever his name)
    Mr “she’ll surprise on the upside” Leon
    Isobel Oakshott was a fan...
    One year ago yesterday.


  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.
    No - it demonstrates how hopeless she is.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364
    edited September 2023

    There are 3 Liz Truss fans?

    I’ve got

    1) Liz Truss
    2) ????

    With LT's spouse PLUS our own Luckyguy, that's the hat trick right there.

    Add a few more PBers, close family members and some of the more politically active among the anti-Woke BD/SM community, and she's cracked double digits (numerically speaking).
    Afternoon, SSI. I don't know if you saw the discussion yesterday of the startling popularity of pampas grass amongst elderly house owners (and therefore Tory voters). I think you can count on rather more than that, though not necessarily very much in the way of percentages.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364

    eek said:

    FPT

    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Guess where I am folks. First correct answer get a half litre of Berliner Pilsner!


    It’s bloody boiling.

    The Bundestag, in Berlin.

    Fricking perishing when I went there six years ago but it was Christmastime.
    I’m there next week. 30s the first 2 days then will turn cooler.

    Guess where I am





    Having sour grapes about @northern_monkey and his visit to Berlin?
    The worrying thing is I'm in Berlin next week - decided I really should visit the Pergamon before it closes for 4-10 years.

    Why is Berlin suddenly so popular.
    We’re going to the Babylon Berlin concert which I’m very much looking forward to. Other fun will be had of course! There’s a couple of Munch exhibitions I think, and a new Käthe Kollwitz museum I’d like to see.

    https://www.visitberlin.de/en/event/babylon-berlin-concert
    Wouldn't mind visiting sometime - to see this amongst other things. One of the most famous fossils of all time.

    https://www.museumfuernaturkunde.berlin/en/about/news/archaeopteryx-named-fossil-year
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Off topic (but aobut an important election): The Mexican election is looking more and more interesting.

    "Xóchitl Gálvez is a Mexican original. She’s a radiant, broad-faced Indigenous woman who grew up in extreme poverty, studied math over the protests of her abusive, alcoholic father, and battled her way to building a prosperous tech company and becoming a senator. Now she is rocking Mexican politics.

    Gálvez is the leading opposition candidate running to succeed President Andrés Manuel López Obrador."
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/20/mexico-presidential-elections-galvez-interview/

    Oh, and among other things she has dressed up as a T. Rex to criticize 'López Obrador’s proposed election-law changes that she claimed bring back the “Jurassic era.”'

    Running against her is Lopez Obrador's pick, former Mexico City mayor Claudia Sheinbaum. But there's more.: There may be a third significant candidate, former foreign minster Marcelo Eberard:
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/09/07/mexico-presidential-elections-sheinbaum-spoiler/

    (The drug cartels would -- probably -- prefer Sheinbaum.)

    Broad-faced?
    Presume it’s not very subtle code for looks indigenous.
    I'd have assumed so, except they included it right next to describing her indigenous! Making it either very weird code, or completely redundant, since other than, maybe, 'fresh-faced', when would we typically see such a description.
    I guess they’re saying she’s indigenous AND REALLY LOOKS IT?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,155
    Scott_xP said:

    IanB2 said:

    There are 3 Liz Truss fans?

    I’ve got

    1) Liz Truss
    2) ????

    Mr Truss (whatever his name)
    Mr “she’ll surprise on the upside” Leon
    Isobel Oakshott was a fan...
    Has she and Leon ever been seen in the same room?
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    kle4 said:

    I feel like this article popped up in my recommendations due to visiting PB.

    How truffle ruined absolutely everything

    If I shut my eyes, I can remember a time when I’d order a plain pasta pomodoro and mac and cheese came just as it was. My chips were sprinkled only with a dash of flaky sea salt. A much simpler time.

    A time before truffle.

    Then, truffle took over, sending the London food scene into a state of mushroom-induced delirium. Now, seemingly every morsel on every menu is swimming in a thick pungent oil or is scattered with shavings of the crusty, nobbly little creatures. My TikTok For You Page is an explosion of sweaty cheese wheels and twirling forkfuls of truffley pastas. ‘You’ve got to try this new spot in Soho,’ an influencer’s voice proclaims. ‘We had the truffle fries, the truffle pasta and this incredible truffle cocktail with a truffle emulsion.’


    https://www.timeout.com/london/food-restaurant-truffle-takeover?utm_source=pocket-newtab-en-gb

    Anyone giving an incorrect name for macaroni cheese should be taken out and shot.

    Anyone using the phrase "food scene" should also be taken out and shot.

    Not that I have anything against the author.
    Y’know I don’t think I’ve ever had truffle (as an infusion or a shaving or an oil) even once in my life. Probably should at some point.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,405
    Chris said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.
    No - it demonstrates how hopeless she is.
    I have some sympathy with Truss: she diagnosed the problem and initiated a course of action which in past years may have worked. But the consequent crash in sterling and endangerment of the pension funds could not be tolerated by 2020s politics dominated by pensioners.

    Commingled with that were her poor social skills and inability to argue her case, leading to difficulty in forming alliances.

    So when things went bang few came to her aid and she left no "school of Truss" followers to succeed her
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,405
    ...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    I feel like this article popped up in my recommendations due to visiting PB.

    How truffle ruined absolutely everything

    If I shut my eyes, I can remember a time when I’d order a plain pasta pomodoro and mac and cheese came just as it was. My chips were sprinkled only with a dash of flaky sea salt. A much simpler time.

    A time before truffle.

    Then, truffle took over, sending the London food scene into a state of mushroom-induced delirium. Now, seemingly every morsel on every menu is swimming in a thick pungent oil or is scattered with shavings of the crusty, nobbly little creatures. My TikTok For You Page is an explosion of sweaty cheese wheels and twirling forkfuls of truffley pastas. ‘You’ve got to try this new spot in Soho,’ an influencer’s voice proclaims. ‘We had the truffle fries, the truffle pasta and this incredible truffle cocktail with a truffle emulsion.’


    https://www.timeout.com/london/food-restaurant-truffle-takeover?utm_source=pocket-newtab-en-gb

    Anyone giving an incorrect name for macaroni cheese should be taken out and shot.
    They are completely different.

    Macaroni cheese is a British main course, based on some dish from medieval Italy that Italians don’t eat any more, which was trendy in the 60s and 70s and incredibly conservative now.

    Mac and cheese is a side dish for oversize Americans for whom a giant pizza doesn’t provide enough calories on its own.
    Italians still eat pasta al forno. It is delicious but has nothing to do with the abomination that is most macaroni cheese in this country.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    Didn't the pollsters actually introduce a new methodology on 'doing well/badly' in early 2016 because of all the Tories who were saying that Corbyn was doing a fantastic job?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    edited September 2023
    Scott_xP said:

    IanB2 said:

    There are 3 Liz Truss fans?

    I’ve got

    1) Liz Truss
    2) ????

    Mr Truss (whatever his name)
    Mr “she’ll surprise on the upside” Leon
    Isobel Oakshott was a fan...
    She'd come in useful today then, although an aircon unit would be better.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,038
    An image search will show you that "broad-faced" is an accurate description of Xóchitl Gálvez. (I don't know why Ignatius put it in his column -- or why some commenters here care.)

    But these two bits from the column may tell you more about her: She says that at 17 she fought off a rapist with a soldering iron -- and hasn't been afraid of anyone since. And recently, according to an advisor, she told a group: “I have the ovaries to confront him. I hope you have the balls to follow me."

    AMLO (as Lopez Obrador is often called) is a left-wing populist -- with a chilling indifference to the damage the drug lords have done to Mexico.

    (For the record: One of the -- perhaps the best -- best things the US could do for our southern neighbors is stop buying illegal drugs from their criminals.)
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,717
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    IanB2 said:

    There are 3 Liz Truss fans?

    I’ve got

    1) Liz Truss
    2) ????

    Mr Truss (whatever his name)
    Mr “she’ll surprise on the upside” Leon
    Isobel Oakshott was a fan...
    She'd come in useful today then, although an aircon unit would be better.
    Would be a change. Ms O being useful, I mean.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    Cyclefree said:

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    I feel like this article popped up in my recommendations due to visiting PB.

    How truffle ruined absolutely everything

    If I shut my eyes, I can remember a time when I’d order a plain pasta pomodoro and mac and cheese came just as it was. My chips were sprinkled only with a dash of flaky sea salt. A much simpler time.

    A time before truffle.

    Then, truffle took over, sending the London food scene into a state of mushroom-induced delirium. Now, seemingly every morsel on every menu is swimming in a thick pungent oil or is scattered with shavings of the crusty, nobbly little creatures. My TikTok For You Page is an explosion of sweaty cheese wheels and twirling forkfuls of truffley pastas. ‘You’ve got to try this new spot in Soho,’ an influencer’s voice proclaims. ‘We had the truffle fries, the truffle pasta and this incredible truffle cocktail with a truffle emulsion.’


    https://www.timeout.com/london/food-restaurant-truffle-takeover?utm_source=pocket-newtab-en-gb

    Anyone giving an incorrect name for macaroni cheese should be taken out and shot.
    They are completely different.

    Macaroni cheese is a British main course, based on some dish from medieval Italy that Italians don’t eat any more, which was trendy in the 60s and 70s and incredibly conservative now.

    Mac and cheese is a side dish for oversize Americans for whom a giant pizza doesn’t provide enough calories on its own.
    Italians still eat pasta al forno. It is delicious but has nothing to do with the abomination that is most macaroni cheese in this country.
    The CalMac Mac & cheese is an institution. Grew up on that stuff.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,405
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    IanB2 said:

    There are 3 Liz Truss fans?

    I’ve got

    1) Liz Truss
    2) ????

    Mr Truss (whatever his name)
    Mr “she’ll surprise on the upside” Leon
    Isobel Oakshott was a fan...
    She'd come in useful today then, although an aircon unit would be better.
    I have spent most of the past 24 hrs on hot, sweaty and overcrowded trains. Only at the present moment am I on an air-conditioned one. It really makes a difference.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    Trying to work out when summer starts in Australia. Any thoughts?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    viewcode said:

    Chris said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.
    No - it demonstrates how hopeless she is.
    I have some sympathy with Truss: she diagnosed the problem and initiated a course of action which in past years may have worked. But the consequent crash in sterling and endangerment of the pension funds could not be tolerated by 2020s politics dominated by pensioners.

    Commingled with that were her poor social skills and inability to argue her case, leading to difficulty in forming alliances.

    So when things went bang few came to her aid and she left no "school of Truss" followers to succeed her
    A reheated version of so-called Thatcherite policies (so-called because poorly understood by those who who believed in the myth rather than the reality) was not the solution for the problems of today, some of them a long-term consequence of those Thatcherite policies.

    That's why she crashed and burned. The sooner the Tories stop thinking that Thatcherism is the answer the quicker they might actually start the hard work of thinking about the solutions to today's problems.
  • Wel I have been inspired to make some macaroni cheese for my tea.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,684
    Eabhal said:

    Trying to work out when summer starts in Australia. Any thoughts?

    1st January and ends 31st December.

    ((Sensible answer is opposite of U.K., so December is the start of summer, at least in the meteological sense. Bearing in mind the sheer size of Oz, English style seasons are not appropriate for all locations.)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    Eabhal said:

    Cyclefree said:

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    I feel like this article popped up in my recommendations due to visiting PB.

    How truffle ruined absolutely everything

    If I shut my eyes, I can remember a time when I’d order a plain pasta pomodoro and mac and cheese came just as it was. My chips were sprinkled only with a dash of flaky sea salt. A much simpler time.

    A time before truffle.

    Then, truffle took over, sending the London food scene into a state of mushroom-induced delirium. Now, seemingly every morsel on every menu is swimming in a thick pungent oil or is scattered with shavings of the crusty, nobbly little creatures. My TikTok For You Page is an explosion of sweaty cheese wheels and twirling forkfuls of truffley pastas. ‘You’ve got to try this new spot in Soho,’ an influencer’s voice proclaims. ‘We had the truffle fries, the truffle pasta and this incredible truffle cocktail with a truffle emulsion.’


    https://www.timeout.com/london/food-restaurant-truffle-takeover?utm_source=pocket-newtab-en-gb

    Anyone giving an incorrect name for macaroni cheese should be taken out and shot.
    They are completely different.

    Macaroni cheese is a British main course, based on some dish from medieval Italy that Italians don’t eat any more, which was trendy in the 60s and 70s and incredibly conservative now.

    Mac and cheese is a side dish for oversize Americans for whom a giant pizza doesn’t provide enough calories on its own.
    Italians still eat pasta al forno. It is delicious but has nothing to do with the abomination that is most macaroni cheese in this country.
    The CalMac Mac & cheese is an institution. Grew up on that stuff.
    If it's solid enough to live on, they should try using it as a ferry substitute.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    Cyclefree said:

    viewcode said:

    Chris said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.
    No - it demonstrates how hopeless she is.
    I have some sympathy with Truss: she diagnosed the problem and initiated a course of action which in past years may have worked. But the consequent crash in sterling and endangerment of the pension funds could not be tolerated by 2020s politics dominated by pensioners.

    Commingled with that were her poor social skills and inability to argue her case, leading to difficulty in forming alliances.

    So when things went bang few came to her aid and she left no "school of Truss" followers to succeed her
    A reheated version of so-called Thatcherite policies (so-called because poorly understood by those who who believed in the myth rather than the reality) was not the solution for the problems of today, some of them a long-term consequence of those Thatcherite policies.

    That's why she crashed and burned. The sooner the Tories stop thinking that Thatcherism is the answer the quicker they might actually start the hard work of thinking about the solutions to today's problems.
    I rather fear that no politician, civil servant, academic, journalist or even local councillor has begun to grasp, never mind think about the solutions to, the scale of our problems.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    Eabhal said:
    Intriguing that he is being charged with, according to the Beeb, 'plotting a fake bomb hoax.'

    Seems a weird tautology. Surely the whole point of a bomb hoax is it's a fake?
  • viewcode said:

    Chris said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.
    No - it demonstrates how hopeless she is.
    I have some sympathy with Truss: she diagnosed the problem and initiated a course of action which in past years may have worked. But the consequent crash in sterling and endangerment of the pension funds could not be tolerated by 2020s politics dominated by pensioners.

    Commingled with that were her poor social skills and inability to argue her case, leading to difficulty in forming alliances.

    So when things went bang few came to her aid and she left no "school of Truss" followers to succeed her
    "Such is life!"
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,879
    As it's a slow politics and betting day perhaps there is space to note the Guardian's 2024 University Guide which appears to be newly out. I have no idea how useful its data is. However:

    Top is St Andrew's. Of the top 16 no fewer than 5 are Scottish. This seems worth noting as the Scottish population is less than 10% of the UK. can any of this be true?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:
    Intriguing that he is being charged with, according to the Beeb, 'plotting a fake bomb hoax.'

    Seems a weird tautology. Surely the whole point of a bomb hoax is it's a fake?
    Perhaps it was a real bomb dressed up to look fake?
  • twistedfirestopper3twistedfirestopper3 Posts: 2,452
    edited September 2023

    Off topic (but about an important election): The Mexican election is looking more and more interesting.

    "Xóchitl Gálvez is a Mexican original. She’s a radiant, broad-faced Indigenous woman who grew up in extreme poverty, studied math over the protests of her abusive, alcoholic father, and battled her way to building a prosperous tech company and becoming a senator. Now she is rocking Mexican politics.

    Gálvez is the leading opposition candidate running to succeed President Andrés Manuel López Obrador."
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/20/mexico-presidential-elections-galvez-interview/

    Oh, and among other things she has dressed up as a T. Rex to criticize 'López Obrador’s proposed election-law changes that she claimed bring back the “Jurassic era.”'

    Running against her is Lopez Obrador's pick, former Mexico City mayor Claudia Sheinbaum. But there's more.: There may be a third significant candidate, former foreign minster Marcelo Eberard:
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/09/07/mexico-presidential-elections-sheinbaum-spoiler/

    (The drug cartels would -- probably -- prefer Sheinbaum.)

    I've got to be honest, I got everything I know about Mexican politics front Narcos. Was it/is it as corrupt as portrayed? I think I remember a town mayor's head ending up on the side of the road a few years ago?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    On my drive back to London my car thermometer registered 34C

    The all time UK record for September is ~35.5C - in Northern Ireland in 1906

    Close
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,405
    Cyclefree said:

    viewcode said:

    Chris said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.
    No - it demonstrates how hopeless she is.
    I have some sympathy with Truss: she diagnosed the problem and initiated a course of action which in past years may have worked. But the consequent crash in sterling and endangerment of the pension funds could not be tolerated by 2020s politics dominated by pensioners.

    Commingled with that were her poor social skills and inability to argue her case, leading to difficulty in forming alliances.

    So when things went bang few came to her aid and she left no "school of Truss" followers to succeed her
    A reheated version of so-called Thatcherite policies (so-called because poorly understood by those who who believed in the myth rather than the reality) was not the solution for the problems of today, some of them a long-term consequence of those Thatcherite policies.

    That's why she crashed and burned. The sooner the Tories stop thinking that Thatcherism is the answer the quicker they might actually start the hard work of thinking about the solutions to today's problems.
    Indeed. Every church buries its God. By turning the living woman Margaret Hilda Thatcher into an icon and her words into holy writ, the Conservative Party missed the point that her policies required significant political skill to enact and would not work today.

    Incidentally, there are parallels in warfare. Every army goes into battle trained and ready to fight the last war, and if it's not won quickly there is a period about 6-24 months in when each side realises that oops they don't know how to do this, and have to come up with something else fast. You can see the Ukrainians and Russians adapting in real time.

    But that's warfare. There's no immediately pressing need for the Conservatives to evolve, so they wont. If they are defeated in 24 they will, but until then no.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,879

    Wel I have been inspired to make some macaroni cheese for my tea.

    But not 'pasta con formaggio gratinata al forno'.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,953
    England 1
    Ukraine 1
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,126

    viewcode said:

    Chris said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.
    No - it demonstrates how hopeless she is.
    I have some sympathy with Truss: she diagnosed the problem and initiated a course of action which in past years may have worked. But the consequent crash in sterling and endangerment of the pension funds could not be tolerated by 2020s politics dominated by pensioners.

    Commingled with that were her poor social skills and inability to argue her case, leading to difficulty in forming alliances.

    So when things went bang few came to her aid and she left no "school of Truss" followers to succeed her
    "Such is life!"
    She came within a matter of hours of causing the entire UK pension system to collapse. The City is still shaken by how close the UK came to absolute meltdown.

    For that alone the Tories should be wiped of the political map, let alone all the rest of the long charge sheet against them
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587
    algarkirk said:

    As it's a slow politics and betting day perhaps there is space to note the Guardian's 2024 University Guide which appears to be newly out. I have no idea how useful its data is. However:

    Top is St Andrew's. Of the top 16 no fewer than 5 are Scottish. This seems worth noting as the Scottish population is less than 10% of the UK. can any of this be true?

    Blimey, mine has dropped 20+ places since I was there. Not that it enabled much bragging to begin with.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587
    Cicero said:

    viewcode said:

    Chris said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.
    No - it demonstrates how hopeless she is.
    I have some sympathy with Truss: she diagnosed the problem and initiated a course of action which in past years may have worked. But the consequent crash in sterling and endangerment of the pension funds could not be tolerated by 2020s politics dominated by pensioners.

    Commingled with that were her poor social skills and inability to argue her case, leading to difficulty in forming alliances.

    So when things went bang few came to her aid and she left no "school of Truss" followers to succeed her
    "Such is life!"
    She came within a matter of hours of causing the entire UK pension system to collapse. The City is still shaken by how close the UK came to absolute meltdown.
    But she took on the consensus, so it's ok because her motives were pure. Even if that consensus is not to have pensions collapse.
  • 1-1 Ukraine v. England in the Euro footy qualifier. Half-time.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,405

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    algarkirk said:

    Chris said:

    algarkirk said:

    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Saturday morning on Brockley’s Coulgate street. The two cafes present contrasting versions of inner London middle class hipsterdom. Both serve good coffee and pastries. (Nb this isn’t a summer/heatwave thing, you’d see the same scene on a sunny Saturday in February).



    In the foreground Browns of Brockley. Slick, professional, quite expensive. Muted browns and beiges in the decor. A Starmerite and Lib Dem clientele. A smattering of FBPEs. Gen Xs and Millennials who yearn for the good of days of Blair.

    In the background the Broca. Plastered floor to ceiling with sweary political stickers and posters. Trans and queer imagery, cheerful cafe manager has a ponytail and eyeliner and a fetching singlet, vegan menu, posters bemoaning capitalism and the patriarchy. Corbynites and Green clientele (plus me today, I alternate depending on seating availability).

    Fascinating the wide spectrum that the woke metropolitan remainer hipsters actually span.

    Brockley is not Inner London. For those of us actually in “inner London” it’s basically Kent
    Disagree (I may regret this...)

    ...
    Well, according to Wikipedia, the London Government Act 1963 distinguishes between inner and outer London boroughs.

    Brockley is in the borough of Lewisham, which is classified as Inner.
    Inner London is defined by being the area which was the LCC before the creation of the GLC in 1965. (This is the melancholy date marking also the death of Middlesex.)

    This is easier to answer than the vexed question in the frozen north: Is the new Cumberland a county or not, and if not, what is it?

    For one awful moment I thought you were going to start a discussion about who is a northerner and who is a southerner. It will never be settled, and is most unjust to midlanders, who are a breed apart.
    No views on this, living in England 120 miles north of Manchester. But if Midlanders are defined as Mercians and vice versa they have a byelection coming up in their ancient capital.
    North/midlands/south can be divided up into blocks of 4° latitude:

    UK's most northerly point: N61° 51' (Out Stack, Shetland)
    North-midlands transition: N57° 51' (in line with Dornoch Firth)
    Midlands-south transition: N53° 51' (just north of Blackpool)
    UK's most southerly point: N49° 51' (Pednathise Head)

    I live in the midlands (albeit on the northern end). The exact middle, N55° 51, cuts right through Celtic Park.
    Performing a similar east-west analysis (Lowestoft, Rockall), leads us to the dead centre of the UK, which is a cemetery on Jura, Kilearnadil. 55°51′N 5°58′W.
    By using simple division of Longitude, you are implying the use of the Mercator projection, which as we all know is nonsense.

    You can just about get away with that for Latitude.

    I did do a demographic N/S division once, I'll see if I can dig it out.
    Not really. East and West are measured from a meridian. I'm not saying the easterliness and westerliness from that meridian represent the same ground-distance from that meridian at all latitudes (obviously it doesn't), I'm choosing to use an angular separation as my measure. Nothing wrong with that.

    If you wanted to do a different analysis, in terms of ground distance from a meridian or some defined point, that would also be a fine way to do it. But emphatically my analysis is nothing to do with projections, it's all based on spherical coordinates.
    Hmm, OK, fair enough. I know it is just a bit of fun, but this is PB...

    Anyway, here is the demographic N-S version (population, split by current constituencies). Primary colours have roughly the same population, shading by population density.


    The Vale of Glamorgan has a rep for thinking itself to be special, so it will be immensely pleased to see you've put it in the South 😀
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587
    Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Chris said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.
    No - it demonstrates how hopeless she is.
    I have some sympathy with Truss: she diagnosed the problem and initiated a course of action which in past years may have worked. But the consequent crash in sterling and endangerment of the pension funds could not be tolerated by 2020s politics dominated by pensioners.

    Commingled with that were her poor social skills and inability to argue her case, leading to difficulty in forming alliances.

    So when things went bang few came to her aid and she left no "school of Truss" followers to succeed her
    Truss is a function of the damage Boris Johnson did to his party, the parliament, and the country at large. How can a blithering idiot like Truss even get to become the PM in the first place? Simply by surviving in the vacuum created by Boris.

    This is why I still maintain that Boris is the worst PM we've ever had. Truss was a symptom, not the disease.
    I know it's uncool to say so, but she honestly didn't seem that bad as a minister. She was first of her cohort into Cabinet, and sure International Trade was not the hardest of roles, but I don't recall her being the cause of all that many scandal or cock up days. She wasn't at FCO long enough, and had some goofy memes about her talking about cheese, but she didn't come across terribly.

    And though her lack of preparation and skill became readily apparent quickly, I'll also concede she's not spent too much time since wallowing in what would be understandable bitterness.

  • ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    viewcode said:

    Chris said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.
    No - it demonstrates how hopeless she is.
    I have some sympathy with Truss: she diagnosed the problem and initiated a course of action which in past years may have worked. But the consequent crash in sterling and endangerment of the pension funds could not be tolerated by 2020s politics dominated by pensioners.

    Commingled with that were her poor social skills and inability to argue her case, leading to difficulty in forming alliances.

    So when things went bang few came to her aid and she left no "school of Truss" followers to succeed her
    A reheated version of so-called Thatcherite policies (so-called because poorly understood by those who who believed in the myth rather than the reality) was not the solution for the problems of today, some of them a long-term consequence of those Thatcherite policies.

    That's why she crashed and burned. The sooner the Tories stop thinking that Thatcherism is the answer the quicker they might actually start the hard work of thinking about the solutions to today's problems.
    I rather fear that no politician, civil servant, academic, journalist or even local councillor has begun to grasp, never mind think about the solutions to, the scale of our problems.
    Because the solution is higher taxes on the better off, who tend to vote..
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,932
    Liz Truss was more our first libertarian PM than a traditional Conservative PM.

    Given just 7% of voters thought her premiership was a success she will probably be our last for the foreseeable future
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,717
    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    viewcode said:

    Chris said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.
    No - it demonstrates how hopeless she is.
    I have some sympathy with Truss: she diagnosed the problem and initiated a course of action which in past years may have worked. But the consequent crash in sterling and endangerment of the pension funds could not be tolerated by 2020s politics dominated by pensioners.

    Commingled with that were her poor social skills and inability to argue her case, leading to difficulty in forming alliances.

    So when things went bang few came to her aid and she left no "school of Truss" followers to succeed her
    A reheated version of so-called Thatcherite policies (so-called because poorly understood by those who who believed in the myth rather than the reality) was not the solution for the problems of today, some of them a long-term consequence of those Thatcherite policies.

    That's why she crashed and burned. The sooner the Tories stop thinking that Thatcherism is the answer the quicker they might actually start the hard work of thinking about the solutions to today's problems.
    Indeed. Every church buries its God. By turning the living woman Margaret Hilda Thatcher into an icon and her words into holy writ, the Conservative Party missed the point that her policies required significant political skill to enact and would not work today.

    Incidentally, there are parallels in warfare. Every army goes into battle trained and ready to fight the last war, and if it's not won quickly there is a period about 6-24 months in when each side realises that oops they don't know how to do this, and have to come up with something else fast. You can see the Ukrainians and Russians adapting in real time.

    But that's warfare. There's no immediately pressing need for the Conservatives to evolve, so they wont. If they are defeated in 24 they will, but until then no.
    Weren’t the Poles still using cavalry in 1939? Or is that a myth designed to evoke even more sympathy for our allies?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,126
    kle4 said:

    Cicero said:

    viewcode said:

    Chris said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Frankly I'm slightly surprised it's even 7%. Isn't that a bit more than the number who claim to have been decapitated?

    What I think she correctly recognised is that if you are going to challenge the consensus you really need to do it straight away when your democratic mandate is at its strongest. The fact she failed utterly demonstrates how difficult this is.
    No - it demonstrates how hopeless she is.
    I have some sympathy with Truss: she diagnosed the problem and initiated a course of action which in past years may have worked. But the consequent crash in sterling and endangerment of the pension funds could not be tolerated by 2020s politics dominated by pensioners.

    Commingled with that were her poor social skills and inability to argue her case, leading to difficulty in forming alliances.

    So when things went bang few came to her aid and she left no "school of Truss" followers to succeed her
    "Such is life!"
    She came within a matter of hours of causing the entire UK pension system to collapse. The City is still shaken by how close the UK came to absolute meltdown.
    But she took on the consensus, so it's ok because her motives were pure. Even if that consensus is not to have pensions collapse.
    Yes we could "respect her truth" or decide that reckless, charmless incompetence is not merely a different truth but a load of catastrophic bullshit... even the Tories balked at the abyss they were looking into. Not that they deserve any credit for that, since they were the ones that brought the UK to the absolute brink.
This discussion has been closed.