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So will Americans back a criminal for President? – politicalbetting.com

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,148
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/middle-class-spending-private-tutors-child-left-behind/ (£££)

    The Telegraph reports record demand for private tutors, as private schools are very expensive and grammar schools hard to get into (and only exist in a couple of places).

    Good news for @ydoethur and @Dura_Ace but bad news for educational equality?

    Round here, private education is mainly seen as a number of shops offering after school tuition in various subjects (and separately, in Koranic studies) but this low-level provision has so far largely escaped political controversy over independent teaching.

    There is no such thing as educational equality except in the eyes of socialist ideologues. Some are more academic than others, just as some are better at sport or music than others.

    Plus even if you abolished all private, grammar and free schools middle class parents would just buy property in the most expensive catchment areas of the best schools or go to church more often for the Vicar's reference for a top church school
    Excellent suggestion to abolish the church schools, part of the problem sorted. Thank you.
    Absolutely not, we need more church schools, more private schools, more academies, more free schools and more choice.

    The more choice parents have beyond the one size fits all socialist idea of a comprehensive school the better
    You were the one who suggested abolishing them,but identified a couple of problems. I've suggested remedying one of the two probvlems - which is pretty implicit in terms of abolishing 'free schools' which would include church schools under any sensible analysis anyway, so I didn't even need to flag it up come to think fo it.
    The free schools round my neck of the woods have been very successful in getting middle class parents to opt back into the system.

    Comically, a complaint is that their intake isn’t diverse enough. Diversity being measured as children on free school meals. So a school where white British parents are a minority (West London demographics) is not diverse. Quite apart from the whole point being to create schools good enough to ge
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Home Secretary Braverman says police must investigate all thefts

    "Every theft must be investigated, home secretary tells police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66636347

    Just such a shame about the courts.
    And the prisons.

    If the Police even do catch the offender, then the court sees them prosecuted, that doesn't mean much if they get released via the revolving door because prisons are full.
    I'm just wondering exactly what wording Ms Braverman will use in the official circular. And what crimes it will cover.
    I suspect Ms Braverman's version of an official circular will be a word to the Sun or the Mail about how the Police must do this.

    As for actual resources, policy or action: tumbleweed
    There's a piece in the Graun suggesting that it's partly the supermarkets' fault if shoplifting is increasing - somewhat startling.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/27/shoplifting-out-of-control-forget-police-stores-need-to-up-their-game
    You’re surprised to see a Grauniad writer saying that “the cost of living crisis” is an excuse for shoplifting, and that the stores need to hire more of their own police?

    But somehow they never publish articles saying that the girl in the provotive outfit can’t complain when she gets harassed in a bar, or that the homeowner who only has one lock on his front door deserves to be burgled.

    The job of the police is to investigate offences, whether of theft or harrasment, and blaming the victim of crime is not a good idea.
    I’m quite sure that the next generation of stores will meet with the Guardians approval. Not.

    Amazon (and others) are trialling a store entry system, where you can’t physically enter the store without signing in, via your account.

    The existing Amazon Fresh stores just have a turnstile you can jump over. These have double access doors, with sensors. Only one person can enter the vestibule at a time, verify and then you are in.

    Once inside the system senses anything you take and adds it to your bill.

    The usual suspects are already saying this is “hostile” to local people. As in, this makes shop lifting really hard.

    This is a reaction to defacto legalisation of shop lifting. Which is a reaction to the incidents of racial profiling etc by police and issues with illegal actions by store security.

    The above system removes all human interaction with would be shoplifters - so answers the problem about racism and violence on both sides.

    The Guardian hand wringers will denounce this, and wonder where such as system came from.
    Absolutely.

    Anecdote. At the World’s Fair in the sandpit last year, they had a few such experimental stores for drinks and snacks. You swiped your card on the way in, everything you picked up was logged by sensors and cameras, and you either agreed the bill and hit a button to be allowed out, or else waited for the assistant. One person at a time in the small shop.

    Edit: anything to do with Amazon makes it infinitely worse.
    https://dataconomy.com/2023/06/14/amazon-racist-doorbell-incident/
    Amazon Fresh stores work that way. The new wrinkle is total access denial by physical barriers to the shop.

    1) ban security staff from physically dealing with shop lifters
    2) stop the police arresting shop lifters
    3) stop prosecuting shop lifters
    4) wonder why stores are shutting, or enforcing access controls that include no staff interaction whatsoever.
  • Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/middle-class-spending-private-tutors-child-left-behind/ (£££)

    The Telegraph reports record demand for private tutors, as private schools are very expensive and grammar schools hard to get into (and only exist in a couple of places).

    Good news for @ydoethur and @Dura_Ace but bad news for educational equality?

    Round here, private education is mainly seen as a number of shops offering after school tuition in various subjects (and separately, in Koranic studies) but this low-level provision has so far largely escaped political controversy over independent teaching.

    There is no such thing as educational equality except in the eyes of socialist ideologues. Some are more academic than others, just as some are better at sport or music than others.

    Plus even if you abolished all private, grammar and free schools middle class parents would just buy property in the most expensive catchment areas of the best schools or go to church more often for the Vicar's reference for a top church school
    Excellent suggestion to abolish the church schools, part of the problem sorted. Thank you.
    Absolutely not, we need more church schools, more private schools, more academies, more free schools and more choice.

    The more choice parents have beyond the one size fits all socialist idea of a comprehensive school the better
    You were the one who suggested abolishing them,but identified a couple of problems. I've suggested remedying one of the two probvlems - which is pretty implicit in terms of abolishing 'free schools' which would include church schools under any sensible analysis anyway, so I didn't even need to flag it up come to think fo it.
    The free schools round my neck of the woods have been very successful in getting middle class parents to opt back into the system.

    Comically, a complaint is that their intake isn’t diverse enough. Diversity being measured as children on free school meals. So a school where white British parents are a minority (West London demographics) is not diverse. Quite apart from the whole point being to create schools good enough to ge
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Home Secretary Braverman says police must investigate all thefts

    "Every theft must be investigated, home secretary tells police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66636347

    Just such a shame about the courts.
    And the prisons.

    If the Police even do catch the offender, then the court sees them prosecuted, that doesn't mean much if they get released via the revolving door because prisons are full.
    I'm just wondering exactly what wording Ms Braverman will use in the official circular. And what crimes it will cover.
    I suspect Ms Braverman's version of an official circular will be a word to the Sun or the Mail about how the Police must do this.

    As for actual resources, policy or action: tumbleweed
    There's a piece in the Graun suggesting that it's partly the supermarkets' fault if shoplifting is increasing - somewhat startling.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/27/shoplifting-out-of-control-forget-police-stores-need-to-up-their-game
    You’re surprised to see a Grauniad writer saying that “the cost of living crisis” is an excuse for shoplifting, and that the stores need to hire more of their own police?

    But somehow they never publish articles saying that the girl in the provotive outfit can’t complain when she gets harassed in a bar, or that the homeowner who only has one lock on his front door deserves to be burgled.

    The job of the police is to investigate offences, whether of theft or harrasment, and blaming the victim of crime is not a good idea.
    I’m quite sure that the next generation of stores will meet with the Guardians approval. Not.

    Amazon (and others) are trialling a store entry system, where you can’t physically enter the store without signing in, via your account.

    The existing Amazon Fresh stores just have a turnstile you can jump over. These have double access doors, with sensors. Only one person can enter the vestibule at a time, verify and then you are in.

    Once inside the system senses anything you take and adds it to your bill.

    The usual suspects are already saying this is “hostile” to local people. As in, this makes shop lifting really hard.

    This is a reaction to defacto legalisation of shop lifting. Which is a reaction to the incidents of racial profiling etc by police and issues with illegal actions by store security.

    The above system removes all human interaction with would be shoplifters - so answers the problem about racism and violence on both sides.

    The Guardian hand wringers will denounce this, and wonder where such as system came from.
    Absolutely.

    Anecdote. At the World’s Fair in the sandpit last year, they had a few such experimental stores for drinks and snacks. You swiped your card on the way in, everything you picked up was logged by sensors and cameras, and you either agreed the bill and hit a button to be allowed out, or else waited for the assistant. One person at a time in the small shop.

    Edit: anything to do with Amazon makes it infinitely worse.
    https://dataconomy.com/2023/06/14/amazon-racist-doorbell-incident/
    Amazon Fresh stores work that way. The new wrinkle is total access denial by physical barriers to the shop.

    1) ban security staff from physically dealing with shop lifters
    2) stop the police arresting shop lifters
    3) stop prosecuting shop lifters
    4) wonder why stores are shutting, or enforcing access controls that include no staff interaction whatsoever.
    No thieves and no cash to need to worry about either.

    Cut out almost all crime they're at risk of, in one swoop.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,688
    edited August 2023

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/middle-class-spending-private-tutors-child-left-behind/ (£££)

    The Telegraph reports record demand for private tutors, as private schools are very expensive and grammar schools hard to get into (and only exist in a couple of places).

    Good news for @ydoethur and @Dura_Ace but bad news for educational equality?

    Round here, private education is mainly seen as a number of shops offering after school tuition in various subjects (and separately, in Koranic studies) but this low-level provision has so far largely escaped political controversy over independent teaching.

    There is no such thing as educational equality except in the eyes of socialist ideologues. Some are more academic than others, just as some are better at sport or music than others.

    Plus even if you abolished all private, grammar and free schools middle class parents would just buy property in the most expensive catchment areas of the best schools or go to church more often for the Vicar's reference for a top church school
    Excellent suggestion to abolish the church schools, part of the problem sorted. Thank you.
    Absolutely not, we need more church schools, more private schools, more academies, more free schools and more choice.

    The more choice parents have beyond the one size fits all socialist idea of a comprehensive school the better
    You were the one who suggested abolishing them,but identified a couple of problems. I've suggested remedying one of the two probvlems - which is pretty implicit in terms of abolishing 'free schools' which would include church schools under any sensible analysis anyway, so I didn't even need to flag it up come to think fo it.
    The free schools round my neck of the woods have been very successful in getting middle class parents to opt back into the system.

    Comically, a complaint is that their intake isn’t diverse enough. Diversity being measured as children on free school meals. So a school where white British parents are a minority (West London demographics) is not diverse. Quite apart from the whole point being to create schools good enough to ge
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Home Secretary Braverman says police must investigate all thefts

    "Every theft must be investigated, home secretary tells police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66636347

    Just such a shame about the courts.
    And the prisons.

    If the Police even do catch the offender, then the court sees them prosecuted, that doesn't mean much if they get released via the revolving door because prisons are full.
    I'm just wondering exactly what wording Ms Braverman will use in the official circular. And what crimes it will cover.
    I suspect Ms Braverman's version of an official circular will be a word to the Sun or the Mail about how the Police must do this.

    As for actual resources, policy or action: tumbleweed
    There's a piece in the Graun suggesting that it's partly the supermarkets' fault if shoplifting is increasing - somewhat startling.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/27/shoplifting-out-of-control-forget-police-stores-need-to-up-their-game
    You’re surprised to see a Grauniad writer saying that “the cost of living crisis” is an excuse for shoplifting, and that the stores need to hire more of their own police?

    But somehow they never publish articles saying that the girl in the provotive outfit can’t complain when she gets harassed in a bar, or that the homeowner who only has one lock on his front door deserves to be burgled.

    The job of the police is to investigate offences, whether of theft or harrasment, and blaming the victim of crime is not a good idea.
    I’m quite sure that the next generation of stores will meet with the Guardians approval. Not.

    Amazon (and others) are trialling a store entry system, where you can’t physically enter the store without signing in, via your account.

    The existing Amazon Fresh stores just have a turnstile you can jump over. These have double access doors, with sensors. Only one person can enter the vestibule at a time, verify and then you are in.

    Once inside the system senses anything you take and adds it to your bill.

    The usual suspects are already saying this is “hostile” to local people. As in, this makes shop lifting really hard.

    This is a reaction to defacto legalisation of shop lifting. Which is a reaction to the incidents of racial profiling etc by police and issues with illegal actions by store security.

    The above system removes all human interaction with would be shoplifters - so answers the problem about racism and violence on both sides.

    The Guardian hand wringers will denounce this, and wonder where such as system came from.
    Absolutely.

    Anecdote. At the World’s Fair in the sandpit last year, they had a few such experimental stores for drinks and snacks. You swiped your card on the way in, everything you picked up was logged by sensors and cameras, and you either agreed the bill and hit a button to be allowed out, or else waited for the assistant. One person at a time in the small shop.

    Edit: anything to do with Amazon makes it infinitely worse.
    https://dataconomy.com/2023/06/14/amazon-racist-doorbell-incident/
    Amazon Fresh stores work that way. The new wrinkle is total access denial by physical barriers to the shop.

    1) ban security staff from physically dealing with shop lifters
    2) stop the police arresting shop lifters
    3) stop prosecuting shop lifters
    4) wonder why stores are shutting, or enforcing access controls that include no staff interaction whatsoever.
    No thieves and no cash to need to worry about either.

    Cut out almost all crime they're at risk of, in one swoop.
    No thieves, no cash, no customers. It is like the hospital in Yes Minister.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    "Investigate all thefts" will backfire on the Tories given the amount of time the police will spend tracking down stolen bicycles.
  • This story gets weirder and weirder.

    The mother of Spanish football federation president Luis Rubiales has gone on a hunger strike because of the "inhuman hunt" against her son.

    There has been widespread criticism of Rubiales, 46, after he kissed forward Jenni Hermoso on the lips following Spain's Women's World Cup final win.

    His mother, Angeles Bejar, has now locked herself in a church in Motril.

    She told Spanish news agency EFE the strike would continue "indefinite, day and night".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66637880
  • Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/middle-class-spending-private-tutors-child-left-behind/ (£££)

    The Telegraph reports record demand for private tutors, as private schools are very expensive and grammar schools hard to get into (and only exist in a couple of places).

    Good news for @ydoethur and @Dura_Ace but bad news for educational equality?

    Round here, private education is mainly seen as a number of shops offering after school tuition in various subjects (and separately, in Koranic studies) but this low-level provision has so far largely escaped political controversy over independent teaching.

    There is no such thing as educational equality except in the eyes of socialist ideologues. Some are more academic than others, just as some are better at sport or music than others.

    Plus even if you abolished all private, grammar and free schools middle class parents would just buy property in the most expensive catchment areas of the best schools or go to church more often for the Vicar's reference for a top church school
    Excellent suggestion to abolish the church schools, part of the problem sorted. Thank you.
    Absolutely not, we need more church schools, more private schools, more academies, more free schools and more choice.

    The more choice parents have beyond the one size fits all socialist idea of a comprehensive school the better
    You were the one who suggested abolishing them,but identified a couple of problems. I've suggested remedying one of the two probvlems - which is pretty implicit in terms of abolishing 'free schools' which would include church schools under any sensible analysis anyway, so I didn't even need to flag it up come to think fo it.
    The free schools round my neck of the woods have been very successful in getting middle class parents to opt back into the system.

    Comically, a complaint is that their intake isn’t diverse enough. Diversity being measured as children on free school meals. So a school where white British parents are a minority (West London demographics) is not diverse. Quite apart from the whole point being to create schools good enough to ge
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Home Secretary Braverman says police must investigate all thefts

    "Every theft must be investigated, home secretary tells police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66636347

    Just such a shame about the courts.
    And the prisons.

    If the Police even do catch the offender, then the court sees them prosecuted, that doesn't mean much if they get released via the revolving door because prisons are full.
    I'm just wondering exactly what wording Ms Braverman will use in the official circular. And what crimes it will cover.
    I suspect Ms Braverman's version of an official circular will be a word to the Sun or the Mail about how the Police must do this.

    As for actual resources, policy or action: tumbleweed
    There's a piece in the Graun suggesting that it's partly the supermarkets' fault if shoplifting is increasing - somewhat startling.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/27/shoplifting-out-of-control-forget-police-stores-need-to-up-their-game
    You’re surprised to see a Grauniad writer saying that “the cost of living crisis” is an excuse for shoplifting, and that the stores need to hire more of their own police?

    But somehow they never publish articles saying that the girl in the provotive outfit can’t complain when she gets harassed in a bar, or that the homeowner who only has one lock on his front door deserves to be burgled.

    The job of the police is to investigate offences, whether of theft or harrasment, and blaming the victim of crime is not a good idea.
    I’m quite sure that the next generation of stores will meet with the Guardians approval. Not.

    Amazon (and others) are trialling a store entry system, where you can’t physically enter the store without signing in, via your account.

    The existing Amazon Fresh stores just have a turnstile you can jump over. These have double access doors, with sensors. Only one person can enter the vestibule at a time, verify and then you are in.

    Once inside the system senses anything you take and adds it to your bill.

    The usual suspects are already saying this is “hostile” to local people. As in, this makes shop lifting really hard.

    This is a reaction to defacto legalisation of shop lifting. Which is a reaction to the incidents of racial profiling etc by police and issues with illegal actions by store security.

    The above system removes all human interaction with would be shoplifters - so answers the problem about racism and violence on both sides.

    The Guardian hand wringers will denounce this, and wonder where such as system came from.
    Absolutely.

    Anecdote. At the World’s Fair in the sandpit last year, they had a few such experimental stores for drinks and snacks. You swiped your card on the way in, everything you picked up was logged by sensors and cameras, and you either agreed the bill and hit a button to be allowed out, or else waited for the assistant. One person at a time in the small shop.

    Edit: anything to do with Amazon makes it infinitely worse.
    https://dataconomy.com/2023/06/14/amazon-racist-doorbell-incident/
    Amazon Fresh stores work that way. The new wrinkle is total access denial by physical barriers to the shop.

    1) ban security staff from physically dealing with shop lifters
    2) stop the police arresting shop lifters
    3) stop prosecuting shop lifters
    4) wonder why stores are shutting, or enforcing access controls that include no staff interaction whatsoever.
    No thieves and no cash to need to worry about either.

    Cut out almost all crime they're at risk of, in one swoop.
    No thieves, no cash, no customers. It is like the hospital in Yes Minister.
    LOL. Although to be pedantic they'll have customers, they'll be the ones who sign in and are granted access.

    And they'll have money, it'll just be electronic payments.

    Money doesn't need to be bits on insecure copper and paper anymore.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031
    Eabhal said:

    "Investigate all thefts" will backfire on the Tories given the amount of time the police will spend tracking down stolen bicycles.

    Because tracking down stolen bicycles is exactly what many people think the police should be doing.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/middle-class-spending-private-tutors-child-left-behind/ (£££)

    The Telegraph reports record demand for private tutors, as private schools are very expensive and grammar schools hard to get into (and only exist in a couple of places).

    Good news for @ydoethur and @Dura_Ace but bad news for educational equality?

    Round here, private education is mainly seen as a number of shops offering after school tuition in various subjects (and separately, in Koranic studies) but this low-level provision has so far largely escaped political controversy over independent teaching.

    There is no such thing as educational equality except in the eyes of socialist ideologues. Some are more academic than others, just as some are better at sport or music than others.

    Plus even if you abolished all private, grammar and free schools middle class parents would just buy property in the most expensive catchment areas of the best schools or go to church more often for the Vicar's reference for a top church school
    Excellent suggestion to abolish the church schools, part of the problem sorted. Thank you.
    Absolutely not, we need more church schools, more private schools, more academies, more free schools and more choice.

    The more choice parents have beyond the one size fits all socialist idea of a comprehensive school the better
    You were the one who suggested abolishing them,but identified a couple of problems. I've suggested remedying one of the two probvlems - which is pretty implicit in terms of abolishing 'free schools' which would include church schools under any sensible analysis anyway, so I didn't even need to flag it up come to think fo it.
    The free schools round my neck of the woods have been very successful in getting middle class parents to opt back into the system.

    Comically, a complaint is that their intake isn’t diverse enough. Diversity being measured as children on free school meals. So a school where white British parents are a minority (West London demographics) is not diverse. Quite apart from the whole point being to create schools good enough to ge
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Home Secretary Braverman says police must investigate all thefts

    "Every theft must be investigated, home secretary tells police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66636347

    Just such a shame about the courts.
    And the prisons.

    If the Police even do catch the offender, then the court sees them prosecuted, that doesn't mean much if they get released via the revolving door because prisons are full.
    I'm just wondering exactly what wording Ms Braverman will use in the official circular. And what crimes it will cover.
    I suspect Ms Braverman's version of an official circular will be a word to the Sun or the Mail about how the Police must do this.

    As for actual resources, policy or action: tumbleweed
    There's a piece in the Graun suggesting that it's partly the supermarkets' fault if shoplifting is increasing - somewhat startling.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/27/shoplifting-out-of-control-forget-police-stores-need-to-up-their-game
    You’re surprised to see a Grauniad writer saying that “the cost of living crisis” is an excuse for shoplifting, and that the stores need to hire more of their own police?

    But somehow they never publish articles saying that the girl in the provotive outfit can’t complain when she gets harassed in a bar, or that the homeowner who only has one lock on his front door deserves to be burgled.

    The job of the police is to investigate offences, whether of theft or harrasment, and blaming the victim of crime is not a good idea.
    I’m quite sure that the next generation of stores will meet with the Guardians approval. Not.

    Amazon (and others) are trialling a store entry system, where you can’t physically enter the store without signing in, via your account.

    The existing Amazon Fresh stores just have a turnstile you can jump over. These have double access doors, with sensors. Only one person can enter the vestibule at a time, verify and then you are in.

    Once inside the system senses anything you take and adds it to your bill.

    The usual suspects are already saying this is “hostile” to local people. As in, this makes shop lifting really hard.

    This is a reaction to defacto legalisation of shop lifting. Which is a reaction to the incidents of racial profiling etc by police and issues with illegal actions by store security.

    The above system removes all human interaction with would be shoplifters - so answers the problem about racism and violence on both sides.

    The Guardian hand wringers will denounce this, and wonder where such as system came from.
    Absolutely.

    Anecdote. At the World’s Fair in the sandpit last year, they had a few such experimental stores for drinks and snacks. You swiped your card on the way in, everything you picked up was logged by sensors and cameras, and you either agreed the bill and hit a button to be allowed out, or else waited for the assistant. One person at a time in the small shop.

    Edit: anything to do with Amazon makes it infinitely worse.
    https://dataconomy.com/2023/06/14/amazon-racist-doorbell-incident/
    Amazon Fresh stores work that way. The new wrinkle is total access denial by physical barriers to the shop.

    1) ban security staff from physically dealing with shop lifters
    2) stop the police arresting shop lifters
    3) stop prosecuting shop lifters
    4) wonder why stores are shutting, or enforcing access controls that include no staff interaction whatsoever.
    No thieves and no cash to need to worry about either.

    Cut out almost all crime they're at risk of, in one swoop.
    No thieves, no cash, no customers. It is like the hospital in Yes Minister.
    LOL. Although to be pedantic they'll have customers, they'll be the ones who sign in and are granted access.

    And they'll have money, it'll just be electronic payments.

    Money doesn't need to be bits on insecure copper and paper anymore.
    Until someone accuses you of Twitter racism, at which point you’re no longer allowed to buy food.
  • Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/middle-class-spending-private-tutors-child-left-behind/ (£££)

    The Telegraph reports record demand for private tutors, as private schools are very expensive and grammar schools hard to get into (and only exist in a couple of places).

    Good news for @ydoethur and @Dura_Ace but bad news for educational equality?

    Round here, private education is mainly seen as a number of shops offering after school tuition in various subjects (and separately, in Koranic studies) but this low-level provision has so far largely escaped political controversy over independent teaching.

    There is no such thing as educational equality except in the eyes of socialist ideologues. Some are more academic than others, just as some are better at sport or music than others.

    Plus even if you abolished all private, grammar and free schools middle class parents would just buy property in the most expensive catchment areas of the best schools or go to church more often for the Vicar's reference for a top church school
    Excellent suggestion to abolish the church schools, part of the problem sorted. Thank you.
    Absolutely not, we need more church schools, more private schools, more academies, more free schools and more choice.

    The more choice parents have beyond the one size fits all socialist idea of a comprehensive school the better
    You were the one who suggested abolishing them,but identified a couple of problems. I've suggested remedying one of the two probvlems - which is pretty implicit in terms of abolishing 'free schools' which would include church schools under any sensible analysis anyway, so I didn't even need to flag it up come to think fo it.
    The free schools round my neck of the woods have been very successful in getting middle class parents to opt back into the system.

    Comically, a complaint is that their intake isn’t diverse enough. Diversity being measured as children on free school meals. So a school where white British parents are a minority (West London demographics) is not diverse. Quite apart from the whole point being to create schools good enough to ge
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Home Secretary Braverman says police must investigate all thefts

    "Every theft must be investigated, home secretary tells police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66636347

    Just such a shame about the courts.
    And the prisons.

    If the Police even do catch the offender, then the court sees them prosecuted, that doesn't mean much if they get released via the revolving door because prisons are full.
    I'm just wondering exactly what wording Ms Braverman will use in the official circular. And what crimes it will cover.
    I suspect Ms Braverman's version of an official circular will be a word to the Sun or the Mail about how the Police must do this.

    As for actual resources, policy or action: tumbleweed
    There's a piece in the Graun suggesting that it's partly the supermarkets' fault if shoplifting is increasing - somewhat startling.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/27/shoplifting-out-of-control-forget-police-stores-need-to-up-their-game
    You’re surprised to see a Grauniad writer saying that “the cost of living crisis” is an excuse for shoplifting, and that the stores need to hire more of their own police?

    But somehow they never publish articles saying that the girl in the provotive outfit can’t complain when she gets harassed in a bar, or that the homeowner who only has one lock on his front door deserves to be burgled.

    The job of the police is to investigate offences, whether of theft or harrasment, and blaming the victim of crime is not a good idea.
    I’m quite sure that the next generation of stores will meet with the Guardians approval. Not.

    Amazon (and others) are trialling a store entry system, where you can’t physically enter the store without signing in, via your account.

    The existing Amazon Fresh stores just have a turnstile you can jump over. These have double access doors, with sensors. Only one person can enter the vestibule at a time, verify and then you are in.

    Once inside the system senses anything you take and adds it to your bill.

    The usual suspects are already saying this is “hostile” to local people. As in, this makes shop lifting really hard.

    This is a reaction to defacto legalisation of shop lifting. Which is a reaction to the incidents of racial profiling etc by police and issues with illegal actions by store security.

    The above system removes all human interaction with would be shoplifters - so answers the problem about racism and violence on both sides.

    The Guardian hand wringers will denounce this, and wonder where such as system came from.
    Absolutely.

    Anecdote. At the World’s Fair in the sandpit last year, they had a few such experimental stores for drinks and snacks. You swiped your card on the way in, everything you picked up was logged by sensors and cameras, and you either agreed the bill and hit a button to be allowed out, or else waited for the assistant. One person at a time in the small shop.

    Edit: anything to do with Amazon makes it infinitely worse.
    https://dataconomy.com/2023/06/14/amazon-racist-doorbell-incident/
    Amazon Fresh stores work that way. The new wrinkle is total access denial by physical barriers to the shop.

    1) ban security staff from physically dealing with shop lifters
    2) stop the police arresting shop lifters
    3) stop prosecuting shop lifters
    4) wonder why stores are shutting, or enforcing access controls that include no staff interaction whatsoever.
    No thieves and no cash to need to worry about either.

    Cut out almost all crime they're at risk of, in one swoop.
    No thieves, no cash, no customers. It is like the hospital in Yes Minister.
    LOL. Although to be pedantic they'll have customers, they'll be the ones who sign in and are granted access.

    And they'll have money, it'll just be electronic payments.

    Money doesn't need to be bits on insecure copper and paper anymore.
    No, it can be insecure data floating around the internet instead.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Eabhal said:

    "Investigate all thefts" will backfire on the Tories given the amount of time the police will spend tracking down stolen bicycles.

    Absolutely not, for the victims of cycle theft their crime is as significant as any other.

    Indeed in some villages cycle theft may be the biggest crime
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,947
    edited August 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/middle-class-spending-private-tutors-child-left-behind/ (£££)

    The Telegraph reports record demand for private tutors, as private schools are very expensive and grammar schools hard to get into (and only exist in a couple of places).

    Good news for @ydoethur and @Dura_Ace but bad news for educational equality?

    Round here, private education is mainly seen as a number of shops offering after school tuition in various subjects (and separately, in Koranic studies) but this low-level provision has so far largely escaped political controversy over independent teaching.

    There is no such thing as educational equality except in the eyes of socialist ideologues. Some are more academic than others, just as some are better at sport or music than others.

    Plus even if you abolished all private, grammar and free schools middle class parents would just buy property in the most expensive catchment areas of the best schools or go to church more often for the Vicar's reference for a top church school
    Excellent suggestion to abolish the church schools, part of the problem sorted. Thank you.
    Absolutely not, we need more church schools, more grammar schools, more private schools, more academies, more free schools and more choice.

    The more choice parents have beyond the one size fits all socialist idea of a comprehensive school the better
    Hi @hyufd,

    You refer to Comprehensives as a socialist idea and it is certainly true that does result in less choice (although it is arguable whether there really is choice for most people to go to a church school or a grammar school or a private school as all have significant restrictions that prevent most from attending them).

    You also have in the past accepted I am much more of a free market person than yourself and I think you are right in that conclusion, so I'm definitely not socialist.

    How do you then rationalise that I am very pro comprehensives and anti grammar schools?

    One possible answer is that I am an idiot, but I'm hoping that isn't your conclusion.

    PS That wasn't an invitation to get into a discussion about Grammar schools which I won't do, but the rationalisation this is a socialist idea (I do accept those in favour of Grammars are from the right, but not the mainstream Conservatives who have implemented and supported Comprehensives)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Hmm: turns out grammar schools are crap at improving academic outcomes.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/aug/28/english-regions-dominated-by-grammar-schools-do-not-improve-grades-study-says

    "The authors said their evidence suggested there was no case for further expansion of grammar schools in England, and a strong argument for the dismantling of selective school systems that use 11-plus entry exams in areas such as Kent and Trafford.

    Grammar schools have long been criticised for creating a two-tier education system, and for being inaccessible to children from disadvantaged families such as those eligible for free school meals. But the new research goes further in suggesting that concentrations of grammar schools fail to improve academic performance"

    I'm stdruck however by how the Grammar School Heads Association says that that's great, the lack of any difference in academic outcomes means it's not fair to criticise grammar schools. What I can't get my head around is, what's the point of the bloody things been for decades in that case?!

    So despite the misleading headline and the clear desire by the left liberal authors to show that it offers no case for new grammars, read the small print and you find that astoundingly their report finds areas with grammar schools get higher overall GCSE passes than non selective areas.

    Adding to the evidence that 96% of those on free school meals get a GCSE pass in grammars to just 86% of equivalent ability in non selective schools

    "Grammar schools 'can
    transform white working
    class areas'"
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/
    news/article-
    3888312/amp/Grammars-
    transform-white-working-
    class-areas-Report-says-schools-enable-children-
    achieve-middle-class-
    backgrounds.html

    Plus of course the clear evidence that areas with grammar schools are more likely to get pupils into Oxbridge and elite universities than non selective areas

    "Towns that still have grammar schools top the table when it comes to getting pupils to Oxbridge" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2175130/amp/Towns-grammar-schools-table-comes-getting-pupils-Oxbridge.html
    The Daily Mail is a peer-reviewed academic journal that published refereed papers? Huge if true.
    The Report was by Respublica think tank not the Daily Mail.


    "Grammar schools 'can transform white working class areas'" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3888312/amp/Grammars-transform-white-working-class-areas-Report-says-schools-enable-children-achieve-middle-class-backgrounds.html

    Note too even the report you linked too says grammar school areas get higher overall GCSE pass rates than non selective areas
    A think tank report is not a peeer reviewed journal.
    No think tanks tend to be filled with conservative intellectuals rather than the leftwing intellectuals who fill education journals!
  • This story gets weirder and weirder.

    The mother of Spanish football federation president Luis Rubiales has gone on a hunger strike because of the "inhuman hunt" against her son.

    There has been widespread criticism of Rubiales, 46, after he kissed forward Jenni Hermoso on the lips following Spain's Women's World Cup final win.

    His mother, Angeles Bejar, has now locked herself in a church in Motril.

    She told Spanish news agency EFE the strike would continue "indefinite, day and night".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66637880

    Fascinating item by the Sky News Spanish correspondant this morning. Vox Popping shoppers etc in Madrid and finding most thought Rubiales had not really doen anything wrong. Interesting cultural differences.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    "Investigate all thefts" will backfire on the Tories given the amount of time the police will spend tracking down stolen bicycles.

    Because tracking down stolen bicycles is exactly what many people think the police should be doing.
    Daily Mail in 6 months "Woke police spend more time solving bike crime than illegal immigration"
  • TresTres Posts: 2,724
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Today is #HowardCox day, when at midnight he turns from a wazzock into a pumpkin.

    Tomorrow, just under 100% (I make it 97% but won't quibble) of the population of London discover that they are entirely unaffected by the ULEZ expansion.

    Wait until hundreds of thousands of fines start dropping on random doors across the country in the next few months, from people who know nothing about this ‘scheme’ until that point. People who just dropped their friend at the airport, or met an old friend for a drink.

    Then there’s the tens of thousands more who will get a deluge of fines, because their number plates got cloned, and find the burden of proof pretty is much reversed in civil court. Obviously none of them will have anything to say to the press on the matter.
    if that was going to happen, it would have happened after they expanded it to the north and south circulars. Funny how the anti-ULEZ crowd didn't manage to find any sob stories after that, they would have been in the Evening Standard every day.
  • Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    "Investigate all thefts" will backfire on the Tories given the amount of time the police will spend tracking down stolen bicycles.

    Because tracking down stolen bicycles is exactly what many people think the police should be doing.
    I'll never forget the time my friend had her phone stolen, she went to the police station to say my phone has been stolen and thanks to find my iPhone I know exactly where it is.

    The police response was 'here's your crime reference number, claim on your insurance, we won't go to the address you've provided.'
  • Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/middle-class-spending-private-tutors-child-left-behind/ (£££)

    The Telegraph reports record demand for private tutors, as private schools are very expensive and grammar schools hard to get into (and only exist in a couple of places).

    Good news for @ydoethur and @Dura_Ace but bad news for educational equality?

    Round here, private education is mainly seen as a number of shops offering after school tuition in various subjects (and separately, in Koranic studies) but this low-level provision has so far largely escaped political controversy over independent teaching.

    There is no such thing as educational equality except in the eyes of socialist ideologues. Some are more academic than others, just as some are better at sport or music than others.

    Plus even if you abolished all private, grammar and free schools middle class parents would just buy property in the most expensive catchment areas of the best schools or go to church more often for the Vicar's reference for a top church school
    Excellent suggestion to abolish the church schools, part of the problem sorted. Thank you.
    Absolutely not, we need more church schools, more private schools, more academies, more free schools and more choice.

    The more choice parents have beyond the one size fits all socialist idea of a comprehensive school the better
    You were the one who suggested abolishing them,but identified a couple of problems. I've suggested remedying one of the two probvlems - which is pretty implicit in terms of abolishing 'free schools' which would include church schools under any sensible analysis anyway, so I didn't even need to flag it up come to think fo it.
    The free schools round my neck of the woods have been very successful in getting middle class parents to opt back into the system.

    Comically, a complaint is that their intake isn’t diverse enough. Diversity being measured as children on free school meals. So a school where white British parents are a minority (West London demographics) is not diverse. Quite apart from the whole point being to create schools good enough to ge
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Home Secretary Braverman says police must investigate all thefts

    "Every theft must be investigated, home secretary tells police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66636347

    Just such a shame about the courts.
    And the prisons.

    If the Police even do catch the offender, then the court sees them prosecuted, that doesn't mean much if they get released via the revolving door because prisons are full.
    I'm just wondering exactly what wording Ms Braverman will use in the official circular. And what crimes it will cover.
    I suspect Ms Braverman's version of an official circular will be a word to the Sun or the Mail about how the Police must do this.

    As for actual resources, policy or action: tumbleweed
    There's a piece in the Graun suggesting that it's partly the supermarkets' fault if shoplifting is increasing - somewhat startling.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/27/shoplifting-out-of-control-forget-police-stores-need-to-up-their-game
    You’re surprised to see a Grauniad writer saying that “the cost of living crisis” is an excuse for shoplifting, and that the stores need to hire more of their own police?

    But somehow they never publish articles saying that the girl in the provotive outfit can’t complain when she gets harassed in a bar, or that the homeowner who only has one lock on his front door deserves to be burgled.

    The job of the police is to investigate offences, whether of theft or harrasment, and blaming the victim of crime is not a good idea.
    I’m quite sure that the next generation of stores will meet with the Guardians approval. Not.

    Amazon (and others) are trialling a store entry system, where you can’t physically enter the store without signing in, via your account.

    The existing Amazon Fresh stores just have a turnstile you can jump over. These have double access doors, with sensors. Only one person can enter the vestibule at a time, verify and then you are in.

    Once inside the system senses anything you take and adds it to your bill.

    The usual suspects are already saying this is “hostile” to local people. As in, this makes shop lifting really hard.

    This is a reaction to defacto legalisation of shop lifting. Which is a reaction to the incidents of racial profiling etc by police and issues with illegal actions by store security.

    The above system removes all human interaction with would be shoplifters - so answers the problem about racism and violence on both sides.

    The Guardian hand wringers will denounce this, and wonder where such as system came from.
    Absolutely.

    Anecdote. At the World’s Fair in the sandpit last year, they had a few such experimental stores for drinks and snacks. You swiped your card on the way in, everything you picked up was logged by sensors and cameras, and you either agreed the bill and hit a button to be allowed out, or else waited for the assistant. One person at a time in the small shop.

    Edit: anything to do with Amazon makes it infinitely worse.
    https://dataconomy.com/2023/06/14/amazon-racist-doorbell-incident/
    Amazon Fresh stores work that way. The new wrinkle is total access denial by physical barriers to the shop.

    1) ban security staff from physically dealing with shop lifters
    2) stop the police arresting shop lifters
    3) stop prosecuting shop lifters
    4) wonder why stores are shutting, or enforcing access controls that include no staff interaction whatsoever.
    No thieves and no cash to need to worry about either.

    Cut out almost all crime they're at risk of, in one swoop.
    No thieves, no cash, no customers. It is like the hospital in Yes Minister.
    LOL. Although to be pedantic they'll have customers, they'll be the ones who sign in and are granted access.

    And they'll have money, it'll just be electronic payments.

    Money doesn't need to be bits on insecure copper and paper anymore.
    No, it can be insecure data floating around the internet instead.
    Which is much safer.

    Insecure data on the internet can still be stolen, but I've never known anyone to have a machete held to their throat in order to enable that theft.

    I can't say the same about cash.
  • kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/middle-class-spending-private-tutors-child-left-behind/ (£££)

    The Telegraph reports record demand for private tutors, as private schools are very expensive and grammar schools hard to get into (and only exist in a couple of places).

    Good news for @ydoethur and @Dura_Ace but bad news for educational equality?

    Round here, private education is mainly seen as a number of shops offering after school tuition in various subjects (and separately, in Koranic studies) but this low-level provision has so far largely escaped political controversy over independent teaching.

    There is no such thing as educational equality except in the eyes of socialist ideologues. Some are more academic than others, just as some are better at sport or music than others.

    Plus even if you abolished all private, grammar and free schools middle class parents would just buy property in the most expensive catchment areas of the best schools or go to church more often for the Vicar's reference for a top church school
    Excellent suggestion to abolish the church schools, part of the problem sorted. Thank you.
    Absolutely not, we need more church schools, more grammar schools, more private schools, more academies, more free schools and more choice.

    The more choice parents have beyond the one size fits all socialist idea of a comprehensive school the better
    Hi @hyufd,

    You refer to Comprehensives as a socialist idea and it is certainly true that does result in less choice (although it is arguable whether there really is choice for most people to go to a church school or a grammar school or a private school as all have significant restrictions that prevent most from attending them).

    You also have in the past accepted I am much more of a free market person than yourself and I think you are right in that conclusion, so I'm definitely not socialist.

    How do you then rationalise that I am very pro comprehensives and anti grammar schools?

    One possible answer is that I am an idiot, but I'm hoping that isn't your conclusion.
    "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function."
  • This story gets weirder and weirder.

    The mother of Spanish football federation president Luis Rubiales has gone on a hunger strike because of the "inhuman hunt" against her son.

    There has been widespread criticism of Rubiales, 46, after he kissed forward Jenni Hermoso on the lips following Spain's Women's World Cup final win.

    His mother, Angeles Bejar, has now locked herself in a church in Motril.

    She told Spanish news agency EFE the strike would continue "indefinite, day and night".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66637880

    Fascinating item by the Sky News Spanish correspondant this morning. Vox Popping shoppers etc in Madrid and finding most thought Rubiales had not really doen anything wrong. Interesting cultural differences.
    I was reading an article the other day saying Spain hasn't had its MeToo moment like the UK and USA did in 2017, perhaps this will kickstart that movement in Spain.
  • Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/middle-class-spending-private-tutors-child-left-behind/ (£££)

    The Telegraph reports record demand for private tutors, as private schools are very expensive and grammar schools hard to get into (and only exist in a couple of places).

    Good news for @ydoethur and @Dura_Ace but bad news for educational equality?

    Round here, private education is mainly seen as a number of shops offering after school tuition in various subjects (and separately, in Koranic studies) but this low-level provision has so far largely escaped political controversy over independent teaching.

    There is no such thing as educational equality except in the eyes of socialist ideologues. Some are more academic than others, just as some are better at sport or music than others.

    Plus even if you abolished all private, grammar and free schools middle class parents would just buy property in the most expensive catchment areas of the best schools or go to church more often for the Vicar's reference for a top church school
    Excellent suggestion to abolish the church schools, part of the problem sorted. Thank you.
    Absolutely not, we need more church schools, more private schools, more academies, more free schools and more choice.

    The more choice parents have beyond the one size fits all socialist idea of a comprehensive school the better
    You were the one who suggested abolishing them,but identified a couple of problems. I've suggested remedying one of the two probvlems - which is pretty implicit in terms of abolishing 'free schools' which would include church schools under any sensible analysis anyway, so I didn't even need to flag it up come to think fo it.
    The free schools round my neck of the woods have been very successful in getting middle class parents to opt back into the system.

    Comically, a complaint is that their intake isn’t diverse enough. Diversity being measured as children on free school meals. So a school where white British parents are a minority (West London demographics) is not diverse. Quite apart from the whole point being to create schools good enough to ge
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Home Secretary Braverman says police must investigate all thefts

    "Every theft must be investigated, home secretary tells police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66636347

    Just such a shame about the courts.
    And the prisons.

    If the Police even do catch the offender, then the court sees them prosecuted, that doesn't mean much if they get released via the revolving door because prisons are full.
    I'm just wondering exactly what wording Ms Braverman will use in the official circular. And what crimes it will cover.
    I suspect Ms Braverman's version of an official circular will be a word to the Sun or the Mail about how the Police must do this.

    As for actual resources, policy or action: tumbleweed
    There's a piece in the Graun suggesting that it's partly the supermarkets' fault if shoplifting is increasing - somewhat startling.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/27/shoplifting-out-of-control-forget-police-stores-need-to-up-their-game
    You’re surprised to see a Grauniad writer saying that “the cost of living crisis” is an excuse for shoplifting, and that the stores need to hire more of their own police?

    But somehow they never publish articles saying that the girl in the provotive outfit can’t complain when she gets harassed in a bar, or that the homeowner who only has one lock on his front door deserves to be burgled.

    The job of the police is to investigate offences, whether of theft or harrasment, and blaming the victim of crime is not a good idea.
    I’m quite sure that the next generation of stores will meet with the Guardians approval. Not.

    Amazon (and others) are trialling a store entry system, where you can’t physically enter the store without signing in, via your account.

    The existing Amazon Fresh stores just have a turnstile you can jump over. These have double access doors, with sensors. Only one person can enter the vestibule at a time, verify and then you are in.

    Once inside the system senses anything you take and adds it to your bill.

    The usual suspects are already saying this is “hostile” to local people. As in, this makes shop lifting really hard.

    This is a reaction to defacto legalisation of shop lifting. Which is a reaction to the incidents of racial profiling etc by police and issues with illegal actions by store security.

    The above system removes all human interaction with would be shoplifters - so answers the problem about racism and violence on both sides.

    The Guardian hand wringers will denounce this, and wonder where such as system came from.
    Absolutely.

    Anecdote. At the World’s Fair in the sandpit last year, they had a few such experimental stores for drinks and snacks. You swiped your card on the way in, everything you picked up was logged by sensors and cameras, and you either agreed the bill and hit a button to be allowed out, or else waited for the assistant. One person at a time in the small shop.

    Edit: anything to do with Amazon makes it infinitely worse.
    https://dataconomy.com/2023/06/14/amazon-racist-doorbell-incident/
    Amazon Fresh stores work that way. The new wrinkle is total access denial by physical barriers to the shop.

    1) ban security staff from physically dealing with shop lifters
    2) stop the police arresting shop lifters
    3) stop prosecuting shop lifters
    4) wonder why stores are shutting, or enforcing access controls that include no staff interaction whatsoever.
    No thieves and no cash to need to worry about either.

    Cut out almost all crime they're at risk of, in one swoop.
    No thieves, no cash, no customers. It is like the hospital in Yes Minister.
    LOL. Although to be pedantic they'll have customers, they'll be the ones who sign in and are granted access.

    And they'll have money, it'll just be electronic payments.

    Money doesn't need to be bits on insecure copper and paper anymore.
    No, it can be insecure data floating around the internet instead.
    Which is much safer.

    Insecure data on the internet can still be stolen, but I've never known anyone to have a machete held to their throat in order to enable that theft.

    I can't say the same about cash.
    I can. I have never seen or heard of that until you mentioned it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    "Investigate all thefts" will backfire on the Tories given the amount of time the police will spend tracking down stolen bicycles.

    Because tracking down stolen bicycles is exactly what many people think the police should be doing.
    Daily Mail in 6 months "Woke police spend more time solving bike crime than illegal immigration"
    Illegal immigration is a border force not police matter
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    "Investigate all thefts" will backfire on the Tories given the amount of time the police will spend tracking down stolen bicycles.

    Because tracking down stolen bicycles is exactly what many people think the police should be doing.
    I'll never forget the time my friend had her phone stolen, she went to the police station to say my phone has been stolen and thanks to find my iPhone I know exactly where it is.

    The police response was 'here's your crime reference number, claim on your insurance, we won't go to the address you've provided.'
    But if she’d sent a couple of her own ‘friends’ to the address provided, the police would have been there in three minutes?
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    "Investigate all thefts" will backfire on the Tories given the amount of time the police will spend tracking down stolen bicycles.

    Because tracking down stolen bicycles is exactly what many people think the police should be doing.
    I'll never forget the time my friend had her phone stolen, she went to the police station to say my phone has been stolen and thanks to find my iPhone I know exactly where it is.

    The police response was 'here's your crime reference number, claim on your insurance, we won't go to the address you've provided.'
    But if she’d sent a couple of her own ‘friends’ to the address provided, the police would have been there in three minutes?
    Indeed, unfortunately a lot of us work in jobs where (enhanced) DBS checks are standard, we have to be on our best behaviour.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Home Secretary Braverman says police must investigate all thefts

    "Every theft must be investigated, home secretary tells police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66636347

    Just such a shame about the courts.
    And the prisons.

    If the Police even do catch the offender, then the court sees them prosecuted, that doesn't mean much if they get released via the revolving door because prisons are full.
    Hence we need 3 strikes and you are out and will then get a significant prison sentence for thieves
    How does that happen once the courts are even fuller than they are now?
    Ditto prisons. Look what has happened in the States with the three strikes notion.
    The three strikes policy is a notorious failure in the US. It hasn't reduced crime and has resulted in people receiving extreme sentances for minor infractions.
    In California it cut crime significantly

    "Opinion | California's 'Three-Strikes' Law Has Made Big Cuts in Crime - The New York Times" https://www.nytimes.com/1995/04/20/opinion/l-california-s-three-strikes-law-has-made-big-cuts-in-crime-377295.html
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/middle-class-spending-private-tutors-child-left-behind/ (£££)

    The Telegraph reports record demand for private tutors, as private schools are very expensive and grammar schools hard to get into (and only exist in a couple of places).

    Good news for @ydoethur and @Dura_Ace but bad news for educational equality?

    Round here, private education is mainly seen as a number of shops offering after school tuition in various subjects (and separately, in Koranic studies) but this low-level provision has so far largely escaped political controversy over independent teaching.

    There is no such thing as educational equality except in the eyes of socialist ideologues. Some are more academic than others, just as some are better at sport or music than others.

    Plus even if you abolished all private, grammar and free schools middle class parents would just buy property in the most expensive catchment areas of the best schools or go to church more often for the Vicar's reference for a top church school
    Excellent suggestion to abolish the church schools, part of the problem sorted. Thank you.
    Absolutely not, we need more church schools, more grammar schools, more private schools, more academies, more free schools and more choice.

    The more choice parents have beyond the one size fits all socialist idea of a comprehensive school the better
    Hi @hyufd,

    You refer to Comprehensives as a socialist idea and it is certainly true that does result in less choice (although it is arguable whether there really is choice for most people to go to a church school or a grammar school or a private school as all have significant restrictions that prevent most from attending them).

    You also have in the past accepted I am much more of a free market person than yourself and I think you are right in that conclusion, so I'm definitely not socialist.

    How do you then rationalise that I am very pro comprehensives and anti grammar schools?

    One possible answer is that I am an idiot, but I'm hoping that isn't your conclusion.

    PS That wasn't an invitation to get into a discussion about Grammar schools which I won't do, but the rationalisation this is a socialist idea (I do accept those in favour of Grammars are from the right, but not the mainstream Conservatives who have implemented and supported Comprehensives)
    I assume you are not also anti academies, anti free schools and anti church schools too as most socialists are?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 22,415
    edited August 2023

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/middle-class-spending-private-tutors-child-left-behind/ (£££)

    The Telegraph reports record demand for private tutors, as private schools are very expensive and grammar schools hard to get into (and only exist in a couple of places).

    Good news for @ydoethur and @Dura_Ace but bad news for educational equality?

    Round here, private education is mainly seen as a number of shops offering after school tuition in various subjects (and separately, in Koranic studies) but this low-level provision has so far largely escaped political controversy over independent teaching.

    There is no such thing as educational equality except in the eyes of socialist ideologues. Some are more academic than others, just as some are better at sport or music than others.

    Plus even if you abolished all private, grammar and free schools middle class parents would just buy property in the most expensive catchment areas of the best schools or go to church more often for the Vicar's reference for a top church school
    Excellent suggestion to abolish the church schools, part of the problem sorted. Thank you.
    Absolutely not, we need more church schools, more private schools, more academies, more free schools and more choice.

    The more choice parents have beyond the one size fits all socialist idea of a comprehensive school the better
    You were the one who suggested abolishing them,but identified a couple of problems. I've suggested remedying one of the two probvlems - which is pretty implicit in terms of abolishing 'free schools' which would include church schools under any sensible analysis anyway, so I didn't even need to flag it up come to think fo it.
    The free schools round my neck of the woods have been very successful in getting middle class parents to opt back into the system.

    Comically, a complaint is that their intake isn’t diverse enough. Diversity being measured as children on free school meals. So a school where white British parents are a minority (West London demographics) is not diverse. Quite apart from the whole point being to create schools good enough to ge
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Home Secretary Braverman says police must investigate all thefts

    "Every theft must be investigated, home secretary tells police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66636347

    Just such a shame about the courts.
    And the prisons.

    If the Police even do catch the offender, then the court sees them prosecuted, that doesn't mean much if they get released via the revolving door because prisons are full.
    I'm just wondering exactly what wording Ms Braverman will use in the official circular. And what crimes it will cover.
    I suspect Ms Braverman's version of an official circular will be a word to the Sun or the Mail about how the Police must do this.

    As for actual resources, policy or action: tumbleweed
    There's a piece in the Graun suggesting that it's partly the supermarkets' fault if shoplifting is increasing - somewhat startling.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/27/shoplifting-out-of-control-forget-police-stores-need-to-up-their-game
    You’re surprised to see a Grauniad writer saying that “the cost of living crisis” is an excuse for shoplifting, and that the stores need to hire more of their own police?

    But somehow they never publish articles saying that the girl in the provotive outfit can’t complain when she gets harassed in a bar, or that the homeowner who only has one lock on his front door deserves to be burgled.

    The job of the police is to investigate offences, whether of theft or harrasment, and blaming the victim of crime is not a good idea.
    I’m quite sure that the next generation of stores will meet with the Guardians approval. Not.

    Amazon (and others) are trialling a store entry system, where you can’t physically enter the store without signing in, via your account.

    The existing Amazon Fresh stores just have a turnstile you can jump over. These have double access doors, with sensors. Only one person can enter the vestibule at a time, verify and then you are in.

    Once inside the system senses anything you take and adds it to your bill.

    The usual suspects are already saying this is “hostile” to local people. As in, this makes shop lifting really hard.

    This is a reaction to defacto legalisation of shop lifting. Which is a reaction to the incidents of racial profiling etc by police and issues with illegal actions by store security.

    The above system removes all human interaction with would be shoplifters - so answers the problem about racism and violence on both sides.

    The Guardian hand wringers will denounce this, and wonder where such as system came from.
    Absolutely.

    Anecdote. At the World’s Fair in the sandpit last year, they had a few such experimental stores for drinks and snacks. You swiped your card on the way in, everything you picked up was logged by sensors and cameras, and you either agreed the bill and hit a button to be allowed out, or else waited for the assistant. One person at a time in the small shop.

    Edit: anything to do with Amazon makes it infinitely worse.
    https://dataconomy.com/2023/06/14/amazon-racist-doorbell-incident/
    Amazon Fresh stores work that way. The new wrinkle is total access denial by physical barriers to the shop.

    1) ban security staff from physically dealing with shop lifters
    2) stop the police arresting shop lifters
    3) stop prosecuting shop lifters
    4) wonder why stores are shutting, or enforcing access controls that include no staff interaction whatsoever.
    No thieves and no cash to need to worry about either.

    Cut out almost all crime they're at risk of, in one swoop.
    No thieves, no cash, no customers. It is like the hospital in Yes Minister.
    LOL. Although to be pedantic they'll have customers, they'll be the ones who sign in and are granted access.

    And they'll have money, it'll just be electronic payments.

    Money doesn't need to be bits on insecure copper and paper anymore.
    No, it can be insecure data floating around the internet instead.
    Which is much safer.

    Insecure data on the internet can still be stolen, but I've never known anyone to have a machete held to their throat in order to enable that theft.

    I can't say the same about cash.
    I can. I have never seen or heard of that until you mentioned it.
    Lucky you. You mustn't have much experience of retail in places like Walton (Liverpool) then.

    Friend of mine, pregnant, working in Walton when the store she was working in was raided by armed thieves. Masked thief held a machete to her throat and said if the manager didn't open the safe he'd kill her.

    I wish I could say that was unique, but I've heard of many such incidents all across Merseyside and I'm sure it doesn't just happen in Merseyside either.

    If you live in leafy areas of low crime, and don't interact with retail except as a customer, all this probably just passes you by. But its all too real a problem and it costs people their lives.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,228
    On education, whatever the structure, keeping the feral scum out of the same classroom as the kids who actually want to learn is key.

    My class contained the 30 brightest and best in the year. The disruptive scrotes were kept well away from us and we were able to receive a good education at a bog standard comprehensive.

    Then in 6th form we had the further benefit of small cohorts, as there weren't that many of us doing A Levels.

  • HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Home Secretary Braverman says police must investigate all thefts

    "Every theft must be investigated, home secretary tells police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66636347

    Just such a shame about the courts.
    And the prisons.

    If the Police even do catch the offender, then the court sees them prosecuted, that doesn't mean much if they get released via the revolving door because prisons are full.
    Hence we need 3 strikes and you are out and will then get a significant prison sentence for thieves
    How does that happen once the courts are even fuller than they are now?
    Ditto prisons. Look what has happened in the States with the three strikes notion.
    The three strikes policy is a notorious failure in the US. It hasn't reduced crime and has resulted in people receiving extreme sentances for minor infractions.
    In California it cut crime significantly

    "Opinion | California's 'Three-Strikes' Law Has Made Big Cuts in Crime - The New York Times" https://www.nytimes.com/1995/04/20/opinion/l-california-s-three-strikes-law-has-made-big-cuts-in-crime-377295.html
    No it didn't. I was waiting for you to pop up with that.

    In fact subsequent sudies showed that crime rates in Califormia started dropping significantly 2 years before the Three-Strikes Law was brought in and corresponded with a large drop in both alcohol consumption and unemployment.

    https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2011/10/11/evidence-does-not-support-three-strikes-law-crime-deterrent
  • PJHPJH Posts: 694

    MattW said:

    Today is #HowardCox day, when at midnight he turns from a wazzock into a pumpkin.

    Tomorrow, just under 100% (I make it 97% but won't quibble) of the population of London discover that they are entirely unaffected by the ULEZ expansion.

    What about the population of Thurrock?
    And my car parks up off the road. I've been trying to sell it but understandably nobody wants a slightly tatty 10-year old diesel Mondeo. (Offers?)

    If it wasn't for the tax of £12.50 per use it would be worth far more to me than £2k scrappage but nor is it, it seems, to anybody else.
  • HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/middle-class-spending-private-tutors-child-left-behind/ (£££)

    The Telegraph reports record demand for private tutors, as private schools are very expensive and grammar schools hard to get into (and only exist in a couple of places).

    Good news for @ydoethur and @Dura_Ace but bad news for educational equality?

    Round here, private education is mainly seen as a number of shops offering after school tuition in various subjects (and separately, in Koranic studies) but this low-level provision has so far largely escaped political controversy over independent teaching.

    There is no such thing as educational equality except in the eyes of socialist ideologues. Some are more academic than others, just as some are better at sport or music than others.

    Plus even if you abolished all private, grammar and free schools middle class parents would just buy property in the most expensive catchment areas of the best schools or go to church more often for the Vicar's reference for a top church school
    Excellent suggestion to abolish the church schools, part of the problem sorted. Thank you.
    Absolutely not, we need more church schools, more grammar schools, more private schools, more academies, more free schools and more choice.

    The more choice parents have beyond the one size fits all socialist idea of a comprehensive school the better
    Hi @hyufd,

    You refer to Comprehensives as a socialist idea and it is certainly true that does result in less choice (although it is arguable whether there really is choice for most people to go to a church school or a grammar school or a private school as all have significant restrictions that prevent most from attending them).

    You also have in the past accepted I am much more of a free market person than yourself and I think you are right in that conclusion, so I'm definitely not socialist.

    How do you then rationalise that I am very pro comprehensives and anti grammar schools?

    One possible answer is that I am an idiot, but I'm hoping that isn't your conclusion.

    PS That wasn't an invitation to get into a discussion about Grammar schools which I won't do, but the rationalisation this is a socialist idea (I do accept those in favour of Grammars are from the right, but not the mainstream Conservatives who have implemented and supported Comprehensives)
    I assume you are not also anti academies, anti free schools and anti church schools too as most socialists are?
    MONARCHY = SOCIALISM! :lol:
  • HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Home Secretary Braverman says police must investigate all thefts

    "Every theft must be investigated, home secretary tells police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66636347

    Just such a shame about the courts.
    And the prisons.

    If the Police even do catch the offender, then the court sees them prosecuted, that doesn't mean much if they get released via the revolving door because prisons are full.
    Hence we need 3 strikes and you are out and will then get a significant prison sentence for thieves
    How does that happen once the courts are even fuller than they are now?
    Ditto prisons. Look what has happened in the States with the three strikes notion.
    The three strikes policy is a notorious failure in the US. It hasn't reduced crime and has resulted in people receiving extreme sentances for minor infractions.
    In California it cut crime significantly

    "Opinion | California's 'Three-Strikes' Law Has Made Big Cuts in Crime - The New York Times" https://www.nytimes.com/1995/04/20/opinion/l-california-s-three-strikes-law-has-made-big-cuts-in-crime-377295.html
    iirc the conventional wisdom is California locked everyone up and New York flooded the streets with police. Confounding theories involve rising prosperity, lead-free petrol and abortions.
  • Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/middle-class-spending-private-tutors-child-left-behind/ (£££)

    The Telegraph reports record demand for private tutors, as private schools are very expensive and grammar schools hard to get into (and only exist in a couple of places).

    Good news for @ydoethur and @Dura_Ace but bad news for educational equality?

    Round here, private education is mainly seen as a number of shops offering after school tuition in various subjects (and separately, in Koranic studies) but this low-level provision has so far largely escaped political controversy over independent teaching.

    There is no such thing as educational equality except in the eyes of socialist ideologues. Some are more academic than others, just as some are better at sport or music than others.

    Plus even if you abolished all private, grammar and free schools middle class parents would just buy property in the most expensive catchment areas of the best schools or go to church more often for the Vicar's reference for a top church school
    Excellent suggestion to abolish the church schools, part of the problem sorted. Thank you.
    Absolutely not, we need more church schools, more private schools, more academies, more free schools and more choice.

    The more choice parents have beyond the one size fits all socialist idea of a comprehensive school the better
    You were the one who suggested abolishing them,but identified a couple of problems. I've suggested remedying one of the two probvlems - which is pretty implicit in terms of abolishing 'free schools' which would include church schools under any sensible analysis anyway, so I didn't even need to flag it up come to think fo it.
    The free schools round my neck of the woods have been very successful in getting middle class parents to opt back into the system.

    Comically, a complaint is that their intake isn’t diverse enough. Diversity being measured as children on free school meals. So a school where white British parents are a minority (West London demographics) is not diverse. Quite apart from the whole point being to create schools good enough to ge
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Home Secretary Braverman says police must investigate all thefts

    "Every theft must be investigated, home secretary tells police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66636347

    Just such a shame about the courts.
    And the prisons.

    If the Police even do catch the offender, then the court sees them prosecuted, that doesn't mean much if they get released via the revolving door because prisons are full.
    I'm just wondering exactly what wording Ms Braverman will use in the official circular. And what crimes it will cover.
    I suspect Ms Braverman's version of an official circular will be a word to the Sun or the Mail about how the Police must do this.

    As for actual resources, policy or action: tumbleweed
    There's a piece in the Graun suggesting that it's partly the supermarkets' fault if shoplifting is increasing - somewhat startling.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/27/shoplifting-out-of-control-forget-police-stores-need-to-up-their-game
    You’re surprised to see a Grauniad writer saying that “the cost of living crisis” is an excuse for shoplifting, and that the stores need to hire more of their own police?

    But somehow they never publish articles saying that the girl in the provotive outfit can’t complain when she gets harassed in a bar, or that the homeowner who only has one lock on his front door deserves to be burgled.

    The job of the police is to investigate offences, whether of theft or harrasment, and blaming the victim of crime is not a good idea.
    I’m quite sure that the next generation of stores will meet with the Guardians approval. Not.

    Amazon (and others) are trialling a store entry system, where you can’t physically enter the store without signing in, via your account.

    The existing Amazon Fresh stores just have a turnstile you can jump over. These have double access doors, with sensors. Only one person can enter the vestibule at a time, verify and then you are in.

    Once inside the system senses anything you take and adds it to your bill.

    The usual suspects are already saying this is “hostile” to local people. As in, this makes shop lifting really hard.

    This is a reaction to defacto legalisation of shop lifting. Which is a reaction to the incidents of racial profiling etc by police and issues with illegal actions by store security.

    The above system removes all human interaction with would be shoplifters - so answers the problem about racism and violence on both sides.

    The Guardian hand wringers will denounce this, and wonder where such as system came from.
    Absolutely.

    Anecdote. At the World’s Fair in the sandpit last year, they had a few such experimental stores for drinks and snacks. You swiped your card on the way in, everything you picked up was logged by sensors and cameras, and you either agreed the bill and hit a button to be allowed out, or else waited for the assistant. One person at a time in the small shop.

    Edit: anything to do with Amazon makes it infinitely worse.
    https://dataconomy.com/2023/06/14/amazon-racist-doorbell-incident/
    Amazon Fresh stores work that way. The new wrinkle is total access denial by physical barriers to the shop.

    1) ban security staff from physically dealing with shop lifters
    2) stop the police arresting shop lifters
    3) stop prosecuting shop lifters
    4) wonder why stores are shutting, or enforcing access controls that include no staff interaction whatsoever.
    No thieves and no cash to need to worry about either.

    Cut out almost all crime they're at risk of, in one swoop.
    No thieves, no cash, no customers. It is like the hospital in Yes Minister.
    LOL. Although to be pedantic they'll have customers, they'll be the ones who sign in and are granted access.

    And they'll have money, it'll just be electronic payments.

    Money doesn't need to be bits on insecure copper and paper anymore.
    No, it can be insecure data floating around the internet instead.
    Which is much safer.

    Insecure data on the internet can still be stolen, but I've never known anyone to have a machete held to their throat in order to enable that theft.

    I can't say the same about cash.
    I've known staff tied up at datacentres while servers were stripped.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,947

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/middle-class-spending-private-tutors-child-left-behind/ (£££)

    The Telegraph reports record demand for private tutors, as private schools are very expensive and grammar schools hard to get into (and only exist in a couple of places).

    Good news for @ydoethur and @Dura_Ace but bad news for educational equality?

    Round here, private education is mainly seen as a number of shops offering after school tuition in various subjects (and separately, in Koranic studies) but this low-level provision has so far largely escaped political controversy over independent teaching.

    There is no such thing as educational equality except in the eyes of socialist ideologues. Some are more academic than others, just as some are better at sport or music than others.

    Plus even if you abolished all private, grammar and free schools middle class parents would just buy property in the most expensive catchment areas of the best schools or go to church more often for the Vicar's reference for a top church school
    Excellent suggestion to abolish the church schools, part of the problem sorted. Thank you.
    Absolutely not, we need more church schools, more grammar schools, more private schools, more academies, more free schools and more choice.

    The more choice parents have beyond the one size fits all socialist idea of a comprehensive school the better
    Hi @hyufd,

    You refer to Comprehensives as a socialist idea and it is certainly true that does result in less choice (although it is arguable whether there really is choice for most people to go to a church school or a grammar school or a private school as all have significant restrictions that prevent most from attending them).

    You also have in the past accepted I am much more of a free market person than yourself and I think you are right in that conclusion, so I'm definitely not socialist.

    How do you then rationalise that I am very pro comprehensives and anti grammar schools?

    One possible answer is that I am an idiot, but I'm hoping that isn't your conclusion.
    "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function."
    I can do the former, I'm not sure I can do the latter, but then I find functioning a daily challenge anyway.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Eabhal said:

    "Investigate all thefts" will backfire on the Tories given the amount of time the police will spend tracking down stolen bicycles.

    The hope with performances like this is that people think the problems with crime are all to do with the failings of the police and nothing to do with government policy. It just gets a bit tiring after 13 years of conservative government.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031

    On education, whatever the structure, keeping the feral scum out of the same classroom as the kids who actually want to learn is key.

    My class contained the 30 brightest and best in the year. The disruptive scrotes were kept well away from us and we were able to receive a good education at a bog standard comprehensive.

    Then in 6th form we had the further benefit of small cohorts, as there weren't that many of us doing A Levels.

    I do wonder if the ‘Reverse Grammar School” is the better idea.

    Take the bottom 15% out of the system, and teach them electrics, plumbing, metalwork, and basic accounting.
  • HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Home Secretary Braverman says police must investigate all thefts

    "Every theft must be investigated, home secretary tells police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66636347

    Just such a shame about the courts.
    And the prisons.

    If the Police even do catch the offender, then the court sees them prosecuted, that doesn't mean much if they get released via the revolving door because prisons are full.
    Hence we need 3 strikes and you are out and will then get a significant prison sentence for thieves
    How does that happen once the courts are even fuller than they are now?
    Ditto prisons. Look what has happened in the States with the three strikes notion.
    The three strikes policy is a notorious failure in the US. It hasn't reduced crime and has resulted in people receiving extreme sentances for minor infractions.
    In California it cut crime significantly

    "Opinion | California's 'Three-Strikes' Law Has Made Big Cuts in Crime - The New York Times" https://www.nytimes.com/1995/04/20/opinion/l-california-s-three-strikes-law-has-made-big-cuts-in-crime-377295.html
    iirc the conventional wisdom is California locked everyone up and New York flooded the streets with police. Confounding theories involve rising prosperity, lead-free petrol and abortions.
    Abortion is the most interesting one. Freakonomics most famous study probably.

    Legalised abortion dramatically cut crime rates as would-be criminals were disproportionately not born.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,228
    Thank goodness we didn't have children. A dozen years attending mass and, god forbid, confession, just to get them into a better school would have been a) purgatory and b) hypocritical.

    BTW, 40 years since I last attended mass. Or confession.
  • Eabhal said:

    "Investigate all thefts" will backfire on the Tories given the amount of time the police will spend tracking down stolen bicycles.

    Forget tracking down stolen bikes, just taking a statement from the victim can easily take five or six copper-hours.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    The stain on humanity repeating her threats to leave the ECHR and suggesting electronic tags for migrants . Why doesn’t she just go the whole hog and enforce certain clothing which can identify the migrant so they can be beaten to a pulp by some marauding racist mobs !

  • Thank goodness we didn't have children. A dozen years attending mass and, god forbid, confession, just to get them into a better school would have been a) purgatory and b) hypocritical.

    BTW, 40 years since I last attended mass. Or confession.

    That would be to get them into a *different* school. Whether it would have been better is another question.
  • The far-right Polish Government, seeking re-election in October (with a fair chance of success), has decided to call a referendum on the same day about the EU plan for countries that don't take many migrants to contribute to the cost of those who do. The wording is reminiscent of those Daily Express vodoo polls:

    “Do you support the reception of thousands of irregular migrants from the Middle East and Africa by the forced relocation scheme imposed by the EU bureaucrats”

    Did you hear about the psephologist from Warsaw who moved to Haiti?

    He became a Voodoo Pole!

    (I thank you!)
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,947
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/middle-class-spending-private-tutors-child-left-behind/ (£££)

    The Telegraph reports record demand for private tutors, as private schools are very expensive and grammar schools hard to get into (and only exist in a couple of places).

    Good news for @ydoethur and @Dura_Ace but bad news for educational equality?

    Round here, private education is mainly seen as a number of shops offering after school tuition in various subjects (and separately, in Koranic studies) but this low-level provision has so far largely escaped political controversy over independent teaching.

    There is no such thing as educational equality except in the eyes of socialist ideologues. Some are more academic than others, just as some are better at sport or music than others.

    Plus even if you abolished all private, grammar and free schools middle class parents would just buy property in the most expensive catchment areas of the best schools or go to church more often for the Vicar's reference for a top church school
    Excellent suggestion to abolish the church schools, part of the problem sorted. Thank you.
    Absolutely not, we need more church schools, more grammar schools, more private schools, more academies, more free schools and more choice.

    The more choice parents have beyond the one size fits all socialist idea of a comprehensive school the better
    Hi @hyufd,

    You refer to Comprehensives as a socialist idea and it is certainly true that does result in less choice (although it is arguable whether there really is choice for most people to go to a church school or a grammar school or a private school as all have significant restrictions that prevent most from attending them).

    You also have in the past accepted I am much more of a free market person than yourself and I think you are right in that conclusion, so I'm definitely not socialist.

    How do you then rationalise that I am very pro comprehensives and anti grammar schools?

    One possible answer is that I am an idiot, but I'm hoping that isn't your conclusion.

    PS That wasn't an invitation to get into a discussion about Grammar schools which I won't do, but the rationalisation this is a socialist idea (I do accept those in favour of Grammars are from the right, but not the mainstream Conservatives who have implemented and supported Comprehensives)
    I assume you are not also anti academies, anti free schools and anti church schools too as most socialists are?
    I don't know enough about academies and free schools to comment to be honest. Having just read a one line description of both I am not against them in principle at all. Regarding Church schools it depends upon the requirements to enter and whether there is indoctrination. Both my children went to a church school as their first school. There were no religious entry requirements and the school did not indoctrinate so I was very happy with it. It was an excellent school.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,477
    edited August 2023
    Sandpit said:

    On education, whatever the structure, keeping the feral scum out of the same classroom as the kids who actually want to learn is key.

    My class contained the 30 brightest and best in the year. The disruptive scrotes were kept well away from us and we were able to receive a good education at a bog standard comprehensive.

    Then in 6th form we had the further benefit of small cohorts, as there weren't that many of us doing A Levels.

    I do wonder if the ‘Reverse Grammar School” is the better idea.

    Take the bottom 15% out of the system, and teach them electrics, plumbing, metalwork, and basic accounting.
    If they were in a position to begin to do any of those things they wouldn't be the bottom 15%.
    You can't teach basic accounting to those who can't add two single figure numbers.
    We very much need to start with reading.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031
    edited August 2023

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/middle-class-spending-private-tutors-child-left-behind/ (£££)

    The Telegraph reports record demand for private tutors, as private schools are very expensive and grammar schools hard to get into (and only exist in a couple of places).

    Good news for @ydoethur and @Dura_Ace but bad news for educational equality?

    Round here, private education is mainly seen as a number of shops offering after school tuition in various subjects (and separately, in Koranic studies) but this low-level provision has so far largely escaped political controversy over independent teaching.

    There is no such thing as educational equality except in the eyes of socialist ideologues. Some are more academic than others, just as some are better at sport or music than others.

    Plus even if you abolished all private, grammar and free schools middle class parents would just buy property in the most expensive catchment areas of the best schools or go to church more often for the Vicar's reference for a top church school
    Excellent suggestion to abolish the church schools, part of the problem sorted. Thank you.
    Absolutely not, we need more church schools, more private schools, more academies, more free schools and more choice.

    The more choice parents have beyond the one size fits all socialist idea of a comprehensive school the better
    You were the one who suggested abolishing them,but identified a couple of problems. I've suggested remedying one of the two probvlems - which is pretty implicit in terms of abolishing 'free schools' which would include church schools under any sensible analysis anyway, so I didn't even need to flag it up come to think fo it.
    The free schools round my neck of the woods have been very successful in getting middle class parents to opt back into the system.

    Comically, a complaint is that their intake isn’t diverse enough. Diversity being measured as children on free school meals. So a school where white British parents are a minority (West London demographics) is not diverse. Quite apart from the whole point being to create schools good enough to ge
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Home Secretary Braverman says police must investigate all thefts

    "Every theft must be investigated, home secretary tells police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66636347

    Just such a shame about the courts.
    And the prisons.

    If the Police even do catch the offender, then the court sees them prosecuted, that doesn't mean much if they get released via the revolving door because prisons are full.
    I'm just wondering exactly what wording Ms Braverman will use in the official circular. And what crimes it will cover.
    I suspect Ms Braverman's version of an official circular will be a word to the Sun or the Mail about how the Police must do this.

    As for actual resources, policy or action: tumbleweed
    There's a piece in the Graun suggesting that it's partly the supermarkets' fault if shoplifting is increasing - somewhat startling.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/27/shoplifting-out-of-control-forget-police-stores-need-to-up-their-game
    You’re surprised to see a Grauniad writer saying that “the cost of living crisis” is an excuse for shoplifting, and that the stores need to hire more of their own police?

    But somehow they never publish articles saying that the girl in the provotive outfit can’t complain when she gets harassed in a bar, or that the homeowner who only has one lock on his front door deserves to be burgled.

    The job of the police is to investigate offences, whether of theft or harrasment, and blaming the victim of crime is not a good idea.
    I’m quite sure that the next generation of stores will meet with the Guardians approval. Not.

    Amazon (and others) are trialling a store entry system, where you can’t physically enter the store without signing in, via your account.

    The existing Amazon Fresh stores just have a turnstile you can jump over. These have double access doors, with sensors. Only one person can enter the vestibule at a time, verify and then you are in.

    Once inside the system senses anything you take and adds it to your bill.

    The usual suspects are already saying this is “hostile” to local people. As in, this makes shop lifting really hard.

    This is a reaction to defacto legalisation of shop lifting. Which is a reaction to the incidents of racial profiling etc by police and issues with illegal actions by store security.

    The above system removes all human interaction with would be shoplifters - so answers the problem about racism and violence on both sides.

    The Guardian hand wringers will denounce this, and wonder where such as system came from.
    Absolutely.

    Anecdote. At the World’s Fair in the sandpit last year, they had a few such experimental stores for drinks and snacks. You swiped your card on the way in, everything you picked up was logged by sensors and cameras, and you either agreed the bill and hit a button to be allowed out, or else waited for the assistant. One person at a time in the small shop.

    Edit: anything to do with Amazon makes it infinitely worse.
    https://dataconomy.com/2023/06/14/amazon-racist-doorbell-incident/
    Amazon Fresh stores work that way. The new wrinkle is total access denial by physical barriers to the shop.

    1) ban security staff from physically dealing with shop lifters
    2) stop the police arresting shop lifters
    3) stop prosecuting shop lifters
    4) wonder why stores are shutting, or enforcing access controls that include no staff interaction whatsoever.
    No thieves and no cash to need to worry about either.

    Cut out almost all crime they're at risk of, in one swoop.
    No thieves, no cash, no customers. It is like the hospital in Yes Minister.
    LOL. Although to be pedantic they'll have customers, they'll be the ones who sign in and are granted access.

    And they'll have money, it'll just be electronic payments.

    Money doesn't need to be bits on insecure copper and paper anymore.
    No, it can be insecure data floating around the internet instead.
    Which is much safer.

    Insecure data on the internet can still be stolen, but I've never known anyone to have a machete held to their throat in order to enable that theft.

    I can't say the same about cash.
    I can. I have never seen or heard of that until you mentioned it.
    Lucky you. You mustn't have much experience of retail in places like Walton (Liverpool) then.

    Friend of mine, pregnant, working in Walton when the store she was working in was raided by armed thieves. Masked thief held a machete to her throat and said if the manager didn't open the safe he'd kill her.

    I wish I could say that was unique, but I've heard of many such incidents all across Merseyside and I'm sure it doesn't just happen in Merseyside either.

    If you live in leafy areas of low crime, and don't interact with retail except as a customer, all this probably just passes you by. But its all too real a problem and it costs people their lives.
    Glasgow off-licences have for at least a couple of decades had everything behind the counter, looking like banks with Perspex screens between staff and customers.

    I still remember the first time I stopped for petrol in south Manchester, and was invited by the tannoy to come in and pay first.
  • HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    "Investigate all thefts" will backfire on the Tories given the amount of time the police will spend tracking down stolen bicycles.

    Absolutely not, for the victims of cycle theft their crime is as significant as any other.

    Indeed in some villages cycle theft may be the biggest crime
    It will backfire because:
    a) the expectation is set that the police will "investigate all thefts"
    b) in practice the police can't investigate most thefts because there aren't enough police officers or interest from the CPS
    c) every single local crime will be WHY HASN'T MY MP STOPPED THIS?

    I think a crackdown on petty criminality is a great idea. Genuinely. But to do that you need to resource the shit out of it. And the government just want to shit on it, which despite the similarity in the crayon drawing of a policy isn't the same thing at all.

    Its the same problem as STOP THE BOATS. Easy to draw with your red crayon, harder to do when you don't fund adequate people to actually stop them.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Hmm: turns out grammar schools are crap at improving academic outcomes.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/aug/28/english-regions-dominated-by-grammar-schools-do-not-improve-grades-study-says

    "The authors said their evidence suggested there was no case for further expansion of grammar schools in England, and a strong argument for the dismantling of selective school systems that use 11-plus entry exams in areas such as Kent and Trafford.

    Grammar schools have long been criticised for creating a two-tier education system, and for being inaccessible to children from disadvantaged families such as those eligible for free school meals. But the new research goes further in suggesting that concentrations of grammar schools fail to improve academic performance"

    I'm stdruck however by how the Grammar School Heads Association says that that's great, the lack of any difference in academic outcomes means it's not fair to criticise grammar schools. What I can't get my head around is, what's the point of the bloody things been for decades in that case?!

    So despite the misleading headline and the clear desire by the left liberal authors to show that it offers no case for new grammars, read the small print and you find that astoundingly their report finds areas with grammar schools get higher overall GCSE passes than non selective areas.

    Adding to the evidence that 96% of those on free school meals get a GCSE pass in grammars to just 86% of equivalent ability in non selective schools

    "Grammar schools 'can
    transform white working
    class areas'"
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/
    news/article-
    3888312/amp/Grammars-
    transform-white-working-
    class-areas-Report-says-schools-enable-children-
    achieve-middle-class-
    backgrounds.html

    Plus of course the clear evidence that areas with grammar schools are more likely to get pupils into Oxbridge and elite universities than non selective areas

    "Towns that still have grammar schools top the table when it comes to getting pupils to Oxbridge" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2175130/amp/Towns-grammar-schools-table-comes-getting-pupils-Oxbridge.html
    The Daily Mail is a peer-reviewed academic journal that published refereed papers? Huge if true.
    The Report was by Respublica think tank not the Daily Mail.


    "Grammar schools 'can transform white working class areas'" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3888312/amp/Grammars-transform-white-working-class-areas-Report-says-schools-enable-children-achieve-middle-class-backgrounds.html

    Note too even the report you linked too says grammar school areas get higher overall GCSE pass rates than non selective areas
    A think tank report is not a peeer reviewed journal.
    No think tanks tend to be filled with conservative intellectuals rather than the leftwing intellectuals who fill education journals!
    The ones who are too stupid to write papers that are good enough, you say?
  • TresTres Posts: 2,724

    This story gets weirder and weirder.

    The mother of Spanish football federation president Luis Rubiales has gone on a hunger strike because of the "inhuman hunt" against her son.

    There has been widespread criticism of Rubiales, 46, after he kissed forward Jenni Hermoso on the lips following Spain's Women's World Cup final win.

    His mother, Angeles Bejar, has now locked herself in a church in Motril.

    She told Spanish news agency EFE the strike would continue "indefinite, day and night".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66637880

    Fascinating item by the Sky News Spanish correspondant this morning. Vox Popping shoppers etc in Madrid and finding most thought Rubiales had not really doen anything wrong. Interesting cultural differences.
    I was reading an article the other day saying Spain hasn't had its MeToo moment like the UK and USA did in 2017, perhaps this will kickstart that movement in Spain.
    Seems like Rubiales played for Hamilton Accies for a short period.

    https://twitter.com/74frankfurt/status/1696054455454544284?s=20

    Make up your own joke about Motherwell.....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031

    The far-right Polish Government, seeking re-election in October (with a fair chance of success), has decided to call a referendum on the same day about the EU plan for countries that don't take many migrants to contribute to the cost of those who do. The wording is reminiscent of those Daily Express vodoo polls:

    “Do you support the reception of thousands of irregular migrants from the Middle East and Africa by the forced relocation scheme imposed by the EU bureaucrats”

    Did you hear about the psephologist from Warsaw who moved to Haiti?

    He became a Voodoo Pole!

    (I thank you!)
    How did he get out of Warsaw, when the flights keep getting cancelled?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,165

    This story gets weirder and weirder.

    The mother of Spanish football federation president Luis Rubiales has gone on a hunger strike because of the "inhuman hunt" against her son.

    There has been widespread criticism of Rubiales, 46, after he kissed forward Jenni Hermoso on the lips following Spain's Women's World Cup final win.

    His mother, Angeles Bejar, has now locked herself in a church in Motril.

    She told Spanish news agency EFE the strike would continue "indefinite, day and night".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66637880

    Rubiales apparently played 4 matches (& flopped) for Hamilton Accies which perhaps explains a lot.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    On education, whatever the structure, keeping the feral scum out of the same classroom as the kids who actually want to learn is key.

    My class contained the 30 brightest and best in the year. The disruptive scrotes were kept well away from us and we were able to receive a good education at a bog standard comprehensive.

    Then in 6th form we had the further benefit of small cohorts, as there weren't that many of us doing A Levels.

    I do wonder if the ‘Reverse Grammar School” is the better idea.

    Take the bottom 15% out of the system, and teach them electrics, plumbing, metalwork, and basic accounting.
    Already exists.


    Wagner?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,228

    Thank goodness we didn't have children. A dozen years attending mass and, god forbid, confession, just to get them into a better school would have been a) purgatory and b) hypocritical.

    BTW, 40 years since I last attended mass. Or confession.

    That would be to get them into a *different* school. Whether it would have been better is another question.
    Of the three secondary schools where we used to live, the Catholic school seriously outperformed the other two.

    Maybe it is just Irish genes giving kids an edge?
  • Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/middle-class-spending-private-tutors-child-left-behind/ (£££)

    The Telegraph reports record demand for private tutors, as private schools are very expensive and grammar schools hard to get into (and only exist in a couple of places).

    Good news for @ydoethur and @Dura_Ace but bad news for educational equality?

    Round here, private education is mainly seen as a number of shops offering after school tuition in various subjects (and separately, in Koranic studies) but this low-level provision has so far largely escaped political controversy over independent teaching.

    There is no such thing as educational equality except in the eyes of socialist ideologues. Some are more academic than others, just as some are better at sport or music than others.

    Plus even if you abolished all private, grammar and free schools middle class parents would just buy property in the most expensive catchment areas of the best schools or go to church more often for the Vicar's reference for a top church school
    Excellent suggestion to abolish the church schools, part of the problem sorted. Thank you.
    Absolutely not, we need more church schools, more private schools, more academies, more free schools and more choice.

    The more choice parents have beyond the one size fits all socialist idea of a comprehensive school the better
    You were the one who suggested abolishing them,but identified a couple of problems. I've suggested remedying one of the two probvlems - which is pretty implicit in terms of abolishing 'free schools' which would include church schools under any sensible analysis anyway, so I didn't even need to flag it up come to think fo it.
    The free schools round my neck of the woods have been very successful in getting middle class parents to opt back into the system.

    Comically, a complaint is that their intake isn’t diverse enough. Diversity being measured as children on free school meals. So a school where white British parents are a minority (West London demographics) is not diverse. Quite apart from the whole point being to create schools good enough to ge
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Home Secretary Braverman says police must investigate all thefts

    "Every theft must be investigated, home secretary tells police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66636347

    Just such a shame about the courts.
    And the prisons.

    If the Police even do catch the offender, then the court sees them prosecuted, that doesn't mean much if they get released via the revolving door because prisons are full.
    I'm just wondering exactly what wording Ms Braverman will use in the official circular. And what crimes it will cover.
    I suspect Ms Braverman's version of an official circular will be a word to the Sun or the Mail about how the Police must do this.

    As for actual resources, policy or action: tumbleweed
    There's a piece in the Graun suggesting that it's partly the supermarkets' fault if shoplifting is increasing - somewhat startling.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/27/shoplifting-out-of-control-forget-police-stores-need-to-up-their-game
    You’re surprised to see a Grauniad writer saying that “the cost of living crisis” is an excuse for shoplifting, and that the stores need to hire more of their own police?

    But somehow they never publish articles saying that the girl in the provotive outfit can’t complain when she gets harassed in a bar, or that the homeowner who only has one lock on his front door deserves to be burgled.

    The job of the police is to investigate offences, whether of theft or harrasment, and blaming the victim of crime is not a good idea.
    I’m quite sure that the next generation of stores will meet with the Guardians approval. Not.

    Amazon (and others) are trialling a store entry system, where you can’t physically enter the store without signing in, via your account.

    The existing Amazon Fresh stores just have a turnstile you can jump over. These have double access doors, with sensors. Only one person can enter the vestibule at a time, verify and then you are in.

    Once inside the system senses anything you take and adds it to your bill.

    The usual suspects are already saying this is “hostile” to local people. As in, this makes shop lifting really hard.

    This is a reaction to defacto legalisation of shop lifting. Which is a reaction to the incidents of racial profiling etc by police and issues with illegal actions by store security.

    The above system removes all human interaction with would be shoplifters - so answers the problem about racism and violence on both sides.

    The Guardian hand wringers will denounce this, and wonder where such as system came from.
    Absolutely.

    Anecdote. At the World’s Fair in the sandpit last year, they had a few such experimental stores for drinks and snacks. You swiped your card on the way in, everything you picked up was logged by sensors and cameras, and you either agreed the bill and hit a button to be allowed out, or else waited for the assistant. One person at a time in the small shop.

    Edit: anything to do with Amazon makes it infinitely worse.
    https://dataconomy.com/2023/06/14/amazon-racist-doorbell-incident/
    Amazon Fresh stores work that way. The new wrinkle is total access denial by physical barriers to the shop.

    1) ban security staff from physically dealing with shop lifters
    2) stop the police arresting shop lifters
    3) stop prosecuting shop lifters
    4) wonder why stores are shutting, or enforcing access controls that include no staff interaction whatsoever.
    No thieves and no cash to need to worry about either.

    Cut out almost all crime they're at risk of, in one swoop.
    No thieves, no cash, no customers. It is like the hospital in Yes Minister.
    LOL. Although to be pedantic they'll have customers, they'll be the ones who sign in and are granted access.

    And they'll have money, it'll just be electronic payments.

    Money doesn't need to be bits on insecure copper and paper anymore.
    No, it can be insecure data floating around the internet instead.
    Which is much safer.

    Insecure data on the internet can still be stolen, but I've never known anyone to have a machete held to their throat in order to enable that theft.

    I can't say the same about cash.
    I've known staff tied up at datacentres while servers were stripped.
    Tragic. Some people will do anything if you give them the opportunity.

    I imagine many datacentres will try to prevent that by controlling who gains access to the server rooms, or even the building.

    Which is much less newsworthy than when shops do the same thing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    Sandpit said:

    The far-right Polish Government, seeking re-election in October (with a fair chance of success), has decided to call a referendum on the same day about the EU plan for countries that don't take many migrants to contribute to the cost of those who do. The wording is reminiscent of those Daily Express vodoo polls:

    “Do you support the reception of thousands of irregular migrants from the Middle East and Africa by the forced relocation scheme imposed by the EU bureaucrats”

    Did you hear about the psephologist from Warsaw who moved to Haiti?

    He became a Voodoo Pole!

    (I thank you!)
    How did he get out of Warsaw, when the flights keep getting cancelled?
    Train.
  • Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/middle-class-spending-private-tutors-child-left-behind/ (£££)

    The Telegraph reports record demand for private tutors, as private schools are very expensive and grammar schools hard to get into (and only exist in a couple of places).

    Good news for @ydoethur and @Dura_Ace but bad news for educational equality?

    Round here, private education is mainly seen as a number of shops offering after school tuition in various subjects (and separately, in Koranic studies) but this low-level provision has so far largely escaped political controversy over independent teaching.

    There is no such thing as educational equality except in the eyes of socialist ideologues. Some are more academic than others, just as some are better at sport or music than others.

    Plus even if you abolished all private, grammar and free schools middle class parents would just buy property in the most expensive catchment areas of the best schools or go to church more often for the Vicar's reference for a top church school
    Excellent suggestion to abolish the church schools, part of the problem sorted. Thank you.
    Absolutely not, we need more church schools, more private schools, more academies, more free schools and more choice.

    The more choice parents have beyond the one size fits all socialist idea of a comprehensive school the better
    You were the one who suggested abolishing them,but identified a couple of problems. I've suggested remedying one of the two probvlems - which is pretty implicit in terms of abolishing 'free schools' which would include church schools under any sensible analysis anyway, so I didn't even need to flag it up come to think fo it.
    The free schools round my neck of the woods have been very successful in getting middle class parents to opt back into the system.

    Comically, a complaint is that their intake isn’t diverse enough. Diversity being measured as children on free school meals. So a school where white British parents are a minority (West London demographics) is not diverse. Quite apart from the whole point being to create schools good enough to ge
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Home Secretary Braverman says police must investigate all thefts

    "Every theft must be investigated, home secretary tells police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66636347

    Just such a shame about the courts.
    And the prisons.

    If the Police even do catch the offender, then the court sees them prosecuted, that doesn't mean much if they get released via the revolving door because prisons are full.
    I'm just wondering exactly what wording Ms Braverman will use in the official circular. And what crimes it will cover.
    I suspect Ms Braverman's version of an official circular will be a word to the Sun or the Mail about how the Police must do this.

    As for actual resources, policy or action: tumbleweed
    There's a piece in the Graun suggesting that it's partly the supermarkets' fault if shoplifting is increasing - somewhat startling.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/27/shoplifting-out-of-control-forget-police-stores-need-to-up-their-game
    You’re surprised to see a Grauniad writer saying that “the cost of living crisis” is an excuse for shoplifting, and that the stores need to hire more of their own police?

    But somehow they never publish articles saying that the girl in the provotive outfit can’t complain when she gets harassed in a bar, or that the homeowner who only has one lock on his front door deserves to be burgled.

    The job of the police is to investigate offences, whether of theft or harrasment, and blaming the victim of crime is not a good idea.
    I’m quite sure that the next generation of stores will meet with the Guardians approval. Not.

    Amazon (and others) are trialling a store entry system, where you can’t physically enter the store without signing in, via your account.

    The existing Amazon Fresh stores just have a turnstile you can jump over. These have double access doors, with sensors. Only one person can enter the vestibule at a time, verify and then you are in.

    Once inside the system senses anything you take and adds it to your bill.

    The usual suspects are already saying this is “hostile” to local people. As in, this makes shop lifting really hard.

    This is a reaction to defacto legalisation of shop lifting. Which is a reaction to the incidents of racial profiling etc by police and issues with illegal actions by store security.

    The above system removes all human interaction with would be shoplifters - so answers the problem about racism and violence on both sides.

    The Guardian hand wringers will denounce this, and wonder where such as system came from.
    Absolutely.

    Anecdote. At the World’s Fair in the sandpit last year, they had a few such experimental stores for drinks and snacks. You swiped your card on the way in, everything you picked up was logged by sensors and cameras, and you either agreed the bill and hit a button to be allowed out, or else waited for the assistant. One person at a time in the small shop.

    Edit: anything to do with Amazon makes it infinitely worse.
    https://dataconomy.com/2023/06/14/amazon-racist-doorbell-incident/
    Amazon Fresh stores work that way. The new wrinkle is total access denial by physical barriers to the shop.

    1) ban security staff from physically dealing with shop lifters
    2) stop the police arresting shop lifters
    3) stop prosecuting shop lifters
    4) wonder why stores are shutting, or enforcing access controls that include no staff interaction whatsoever.
    No thieves and no cash to need to worry about either.

    Cut out almost all crime they're at risk of, in one swoop.
    No thieves, no cash, no customers. It is like the hospital in Yes Minister.
    LOL. Although to be pedantic they'll have customers, they'll be the ones who sign in and are granted access.

    And they'll have money, it'll just be electronic payments.

    Money doesn't need to be bits on insecure copper and paper anymore.
    No, it can be insecure data floating around the internet instead.
    Which is much safer.

    Insecure data on the internet can still be stolen, but I've never known anyone to have a machete held to their throat in order to enable that theft.

    I can't say the same about cash.
    I can. I have never seen or heard of that until you mentioned it.
    Lucky you. You mustn't have much experience of retail in places like Walton (Liverpool) then.

    Friend of mine, pregnant, working in Walton when the store she was working in was raided by armed thieves. Masked thief held a machete to her throat and said if the manager didn't open the safe he'd kill her.

    I wish I could say that was unique, but I've heard of many such incidents all across Merseyside and I'm sure it doesn't just happen in Merseyside either.

    If you live in leafy areas of low crime, and don't interact with retail except as a customer, all this probably just passes you by. But its all too real a problem and it costs people their lives.
    My experience of retail from family working in shops is that the vast majority of criminals were nicking stuff not money. If you are hearing of 'many such incidents across Merseyside' then maybe that is more of a result of where you are living.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,302
    nico679 said:

    The stain on humanity repeating her threats to leave the ECHR and suggesting electronic tags for migrants . Why doesn’t she just go the whole hog and enforce certain clothing which can identify the migrant so they can be beaten to a pulp by some marauding racist mobs !

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/nov/27/immigration.immigrationandpublicservices

    Asylum seekers could be electronically tagged rather than locked up in detention centres, the home secretary, David Blunkett, revealed today.

    Mr Blunkett was speaking as he unveiled details of the government's new Asylum Bill. The legislation will bring in powers that will largely be used to tag asylum seekers whose applications have been rejected.

    The home secretary said that he expected a new kind of tag, employing satellite technology to pinpoint the wearer's location, to be used within around 12 to 18 months.

    The package of new measures will also reduce asylum seekers' access to an appeals process more severely than had previously been expected. It will prevent them from applying to the high court or judicial reviews.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,937
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Today is #HowardCox day, when at midnight he turns from a wazzock into a pumpkin.

    Tomorrow, just under 100% (I make it 97% but won't quibble) of the population of London discover that they are entirely unaffected by the ULEZ expansion.

    Wait until hundreds of thousands of fines start dropping on random doors across the country in the next few months, from people who know nothing about this ‘scheme’ until that point. People who just dropped their friend at the airport, or met an old friend for a drink.

    Then there’s the tens of thousands more who will get a deluge of fines, because their number plates got cloned, and find the burden of proof pretty is much reversed in civil court. Obviously none of them will have anything to say to the press on the matter.
    First para: a mistake they should only make once each, and I hope an old "friend" would have told them. Given the publicity, they should know already.

    Second para: that's just another problem known about for years that the current Govt has failed to deal with. Perhaps the Transport Minister needs to spend some time on his core job, rather than trying to save his arse at the next election by spouting incessant BS.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/middle-class-spending-private-tutors-child-left-behind/ (£££)

    The Telegraph reports record demand for private tutors, as private schools are very expensive and grammar schools hard to get into (and only exist in a couple of places).

    Good news for @ydoethur and @Dura_Ace but bad news for educational equality?

    Round here, private education is mainly seen as a number of shops offering after school tuition in various subjects (and separately, in Koranic studies) but this low-level provision has so far largely escaped political controversy over independent teaching.

    There is no such thing as educational equality except in the eyes of socialist ideologues. Some are more academic than others, just as some are better at sport or music than others.

    Plus even if you abolished all private, grammar and free schools middle class parents would just buy property in the most expensive catchment areas of the best schools or go to church more often for the Vicar's reference for a top church school
    Excellent suggestion to abolish the church schools, part of the problem sorted. Thank you.
    Absolutely not, we need more church schools, more private schools, more academies, more free schools and more choice.

    The more choice parents have beyond the one size fits all socialist idea of a comprehensive school the better
    You were the one who suggested abolishing them,but identified a couple of problems. I've suggested remedying one of the two probvlems - which is pretty implicit in terms of abolishing 'free schools' which would include church schools under any sensible analysis anyway, so I didn't even need to flag it up come to think fo it.
    The free schools round my neck of the woods have been very successful in getting middle class parents to opt back into the system.

    Comically, a complaint is that their intake isn’t diverse enough. Diversity being measured as children on free school meals. So a school where white British parents are a minority (West London demographics) is not diverse. Quite apart from the whole point being to create schools good enough to ge
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Home Secretary Braverman says police must investigate all thefts

    "Every theft must be investigated, home secretary tells police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66636347

    Just such a shame about the courts.
    And the prisons.

    If the Police even do catch the offender, then the court sees them prosecuted, that doesn't mean much if they get released via the revolving door because prisons are full.
    I'm just wondering exactly what wording Ms Braverman will use in the official circular. And what crimes it will cover.
    I suspect Ms Braverman's version of an official circular will be a word to the Sun or the Mail about how the Police must do this.

    As for actual resources, policy or action: tumbleweed
    There's a piece in the Graun suggesting that it's partly the supermarkets' fault if shoplifting is increasing - somewhat startling.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/27/shoplifting-out-of-control-forget-police-stores-need-to-up-their-game
    You’re surprised to see a Grauniad writer saying that “the cost of living crisis” is an excuse for shoplifting, and that the stores need to hire more of their own police?

    But somehow they never publish articles saying that the girl in the provotive outfit can’t complain when she gets harassed in a bar, or that the homeowner who only has one lock on his front door deserves to be burgled.

    The job of the police is to investigate offences, whether of theft or harrasment, and blaming the victim of crime is not a good idea.
    I’m quite sure that the next generation of stores will meet with the Guardians approval. Not.

    Amazon (and others) are trialling a store entry system, where you can’t physically enter the store without signing in, via your account.

    The existing Amazon Fresh stores just have a turnstile you can jump over. These have double access doors, with sensors. Only one person can enter the vestibule at a time, verify and then you are in.

    Once inside the system senses anything you take and adds it to your bill.

    The usual suspects are already saying this is “hostile” to local people. As in, this makes shop lifting really hard.

    This is a reaction to defacto legalisation of shop lifting. Which is a reaction to the incidents of racial profiling etc by police and issues with illegal actions by store security.

    The above system removes all human interaction with would be shoplifters - so answers the problem about racism and violence on both sides.

    The Guardian hand wringers will denounce this, and wonder where such as system came from.
    Absolutely.

    Anecdote. At the World’s Fair in the sandpit last year, they had a few such experimental stores for drinks and snacks. You swiped your card on the way in, everything you picked up was logged by sensors and cameras, and you either agreed the bill and hit a button to be allowed out, or else waited for the assistant. One person at a time in the small shop.

    Edit: anything to do with Amazon makes it infinitely worse.
    https://dataconomy.com/2023/06/14/amazon-racist-doorbell-incident/
    Amazon Fresh stores work that way. The new wrinkle is total access denial by physical barriers to the shop.

    1) ban security staff from physically dealing with shop lifters
    2) stop the police arresting shop lifters
    3) stop prosecuting shop lifters
    4) wonder why stores are shutting, or enforcing access controls that include no staff interaction whatsoever.
    No thieves and no cash to need to worry about either.

    Cut out almost all crime they're at risk of, in one swoop.
    No thieves, no cash, no customers. It is like the hospital in Yes Minister.
    LOL. Although to be pedantic they'll have customers, they'll be the ones who sign in and are granted access.

    And they'll have money, it'll just be electronic payments.

    Money doesn't need to be bits on insecure copper and paper anymore.
    No, it can be insecure data floating around the internet instead.
    Which is much safer.

    Insecure data on the internet can still be stolen, but I've never known anyone to have a machete held to their throat in order to enable that theft.

    I can't say the same about cash.
    I've known staff tied up at datacentres while servers were stripped.
    Tragic. Some people will do anything if you give them the opportunity.

    I imagine many datacentres will try to prevent that by controlling who gains access to the server rooms, or even the building.

    Which is much less newsworthy than when shops do the same thing.
    Datacentre robberies are a real thing, and look more like bank robberies in the execution. The good criminals bribe the guards, the bad ones go in with guns.

    Make backups, people!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,477
    edited August 2023
    dixiedean said:

    Sandpit said:

    On education, whatever the structure, keeping the feral scum out of the same classroom as the kids who actually want to learn is key.

    My class contained the 30 brightest and best in the year. The disruptive scrotes were kept well away from us and we were able to receive a good education at a bog standard comprehensive.

    Then in 6th form we had the further benefit of small cohorts, as there weren't that many of us doing A Levels.

    I do wonder if the ‘Reverse Grammar School” is the better idea.

    Take the bottom 15% out of the system, and teach them electrics, plumbing, metalwork, and basic accounting.
    If they were in a position to begin to do any of those things they wouldn't be the bottom 15%.
    You can't teach basic accounting to those who can't add two single figure numbers.
    We very much need to start with reading.
    Which is not to say the idea is a non-starter. We desperately need remedial classes for those who've left Primary unable to read. Or do basic sums.
    But. How much extra would anyone be willing to pay to fund this? You'd need more and better facilities, and higher wages to attract staff, because nobody would work there otherwise.
    I suspect the answer is nowt.
    Which is why all these ideas across a broad range of public services don't make the starting line.
  • As usual Braverman is lying to people she believes are stupid. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/28/suella-braverman-strasbourg-rwanda-european-convention-human-rights

    We're not sending refugees to Rwanda. It isn't because of "Strasbourg". Its because of massive incompetence implementing a policy sketched by a child with a red crayon.

    So we leave the ECHR. How does that:
    Ensure we actually round up migrants?
    Have sufficient resources to manage them?
    Have sufficient places to house them safely and securely?
    Have capacity in the Home Office to process the vast backlog?
    Have capacity in the courts system to banish them?
    Have Rwanda actually capable of taking more than a small handful?

    We're not sending anyone to Rwanda because we can't. Not because we're banned by someone else. Because the UK government is functionally incompetent.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 22,415
    edited August 2023

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/middle-class-spending-private-tutors-child-left-behind/ (£££)

    The Telegraph reports record demand for private tutors, as private schools are very expensive and grammar schools hard to get into (and only exist in a couple of places).

    Good news for @ydoethur and @Dura_Ace but bad news for educational equality?

    Round here, private education is mainly seen as a number of shops offering after school tuition in various subjects (and separately, in Koranic studies) but this low-level provision has so far largely escaped political controversy over independent teaching.

    There is no such thing as educational equality except in the eyes of socialist ideologues. Some are more academic than others, just as some are better at sport or music than others.

    Plus even if you abolished all private, grammar and free schools middle class parents would just buy property in the most expensive catchment areas of the best schools or go to church more often for the Vicar's reference for a top church school
    Excellent suggestion to abolish the church schools, part of the problem sorted. Thank you.
    Absolutely not, we need more church schools, more private schools, more academies, more free schools and more choice.

    The more choice parents have beyond the one size fits all socialist idea of a comprehensive school the better
    You were the one who suggested abolishing them,but identified a couple of problems. I've suggested remedying one of the two probvlems - which is pretty implicit in terms of abolishing 'free schools' which would include church schools under any sensible analysis anyway, so I didn't even need to flag it up come to think fo it.
    The free schools round my neck of the woods have been very successful in getting middle class parents to opt back into the system.

    Comically, a complaint is that their intake isn’t diverse enough. Diversity being measured as children on free school meals. So a school where white British parents are a minority (West London demographics) is not diverse. Quite apart from the whole point being to create schools good enough to ge
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Home Secretary Braverman says police must investigate all thefts

    "Every theft must be investigated, home secretary tells police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66636347

    Just such a shame about the courts.
    And the prisons.

    If the Police even do catch the offender, then the court sees them prosecuted, that doesn't mean much if they get released via the revolving door because prisons are full.
    I'm just wondering exactly what wording Ms Braverman will use in the official circular. And what crimes it will cover.
    I suspect Ms Braverman's version of an official circular will be a word to the Sun or the Mail about how the Police must do this.

    As for actual resources, policy or action: tumbleweed
    There's a piece in the Graun suggesting that it's partly the supermarkets' fault if shoplifting is increasing - somewhat startling.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/27/shoplifting-out-of-control-forget-police-stores-need-to-up-their-game
    You’re surprised to see a Grauniad writer saying that “the cost of living crisis” is an excuse for shoplifting, and that the stores need to hire more of their own police?

    But somehow they never publish articles saying that the girl in the provotive outfit can’t complain when she gets harassed in a bar, or that the homeowner who only has one lock on his front door deserves to be burgled.

    The job of the police is to investigate offences, whether of theft or harrasment, and blaming the victim of crime is not a good idea.
    I’m quite sure that the next generation of stores will meet with the Guardians approval. Not.

    Amazon (and others) are trialling a store entry system, where you can’t physically enter the store without signing in, via your account.

    The existing Amazon Fresh stores just have a turnstile you can jump over. These have double access doors, with sensors. Only one person can enter the vestibule at a time, verify and then you are in.

    Once inside the system senses anything you take and adds it to your bill.

    The usual suspects are already saying this is “hostile” to local people. As in, this makes shop lifting really hard.

    This is a reaction to defacto legalisation of shop lifting. Which is a reaction to the incidents of racial profiling etc by police and issues with illegal actions by store security.

    The above system removes all human interaction with would be shoplifters - so answers the problem about racism and violence on both sides.

    The Guardian hand wringers will denounce this, and wonder where such as system came from.
    Absolutely.

    Anecdote. At the World’s Fair in the sandpit last year, they had a few such experimental stores for drinks and snacks. You swiped your card on the way in, everything you picked up was logged by sensors and cameras, and you either agreed the bill and hit a button to be allowed out, or else waited for the assistant. One person at a time in the small shop.

    Edit: anything to do with Amazon makes it infinitely worse.
    https://dataconomy.com/2023/06/14/amazon-racist-doorbell-incident/
    Amazon Fresh stores work that way. The new wrinkle is total access denial by physical barriers to the shop.

    1) ban security staff from physically dealing with shop lifters
    2) stop the police arresting shop lifters
    3) stop prosecuting shop lifters
    4) wonder why stores are shutting, or enforcing access controls that include no staff interaction whatsoever.
    No thieves and no cash to need to worry about either.

    Cut out almost all crime they're at risk of, in one swoop.
    No thieves, no cash, no customers. It is like the hospital in Yes Minister.
    LOL. Although to be pedantic they'll have customers, they'll be the ones who sign in and are granted access.

    And they'll have money, it'll just be electronic payments.

    Money doesn't need to be bits on insecure copper and paper anymore.
    No, it can be insecure data floating around the internet instead.
    Which is much safer.

    Insecure data on the internet can still be stolen, but I've never known anyone to have a machete held to their throat in order to enable that theft.

    I can't say the same about cash.
    I can. I have never seen or heard of that until you mentioned it.
    Lucky you. You mustn't have much experience of retail in places like Walton (Liverpool) then.

    Friend of mine, pregnant, working in Walton when the store she was working in was raided by armed thieves. Masked thief held a machete to her throat and said if the manager didn't open the safe he'd kill her.

    I wish I could say that was unique, but I've heard of many such incidents all across Merseyside and I'm sure it doesn't just happen in Merseyside either.

    If you live in leafy areas of low crime, and don't interact with retail except as a customer, all this probably just passes you by. But its all too real a problem and it costs people their lives.
    My experience of retail from family working in shops is that the vast majority of criminals were nicking stuff not money. If you are hearing of 'many such incidents across Merseyside' then maybe that is more of a result of where you are living.
    Yes, as I said, if you live in a leafy area its not such a problem.

    If you don't, it is.

    I have lived in, and both friends and family in, both nice and rough areas, so I've seen both sides.

    In parts of Birkenhead, in parts of Liverpool - and elsewhere outside Merseyside and Glasgow I'm sure - this is a very real fact of life.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,947

    Eabhal said:

    "Investigate all thefts" will backfire on the Tories given the amount of time the police will spend tracking down stolen bicycles.

    Forget tracking down stolen bikes, just taking a statement from the victim can easily take five or six copper-hours.
    Some months ago I watched 4 policemen/women who arrived in two cars and one van talking to a little old lady outside the Southwold post office. Her shopping trolley made 2 round trips (4 in total) to and from the police van and they must have spent an hour or two with her.

    There was quite a crowd in the end. Never did find out what it was all about, but unless she had a dirty bomb in her shopping trolley it seemed a bit excessive to use most of Suffolk's constabulary and equipment on her.

    It is the most excitement Southwold has had in years.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Hmm: turns out grammar schools are crap at improving academic outcomes.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/aug/28/english-regions-dominated-by-grammar-schools-do-not-improve-grades-study-says

    "The authors said their evidence suggested there was no case for further expansion of grammar schools in England, and a strong argument for the dismantling of selective school systems that use 11-plus entry exams in areas such as Kent and Trafford.

    Grammar schools have long been criticised for creating a two-tier education system, and for being inaccessible to children from disadvantaged families such as those eligible for free school meals. But the new research goes further in suggesting that concentrations of grammar schools fail to improve academic performance"

    I'm stdruck however by how the Grammar School Heads Association says that that's great, the lack of any difference in academic outcomes means it's not fair to criticise grammar schools. What I can't get my head around is, what's the point of the bloody things been for decades in that case?!

    So despite the misleading headline and the clear desire by the left liberal authors to show that it offers no case for new grammars, read the small print and you find that astoundingly their report finds areas with grammar schools get higher overall GCSE passes than non selective areas.

    Adding to the evidence that 96% of those on free school meals get a GCSE pass in grammars to just 86% of equivalent ability in non selective schools

    "Grammar schools 'can
    transform white working
    class areas'"
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/
    news/article-
    3888312/amp/Grammars-
    transform-white-working-
    class-areas-Report-says-schools-enable-children-
    achieve-middle-class-
    backgrounds.html

    Plus of course the clear evidence that areas with grammar schools are more likely to get pupils into Oxbridge and elite universities than non selective areas

    "Towns that still have grammar schools top the table when it comes to getting pupils to Oxbridge" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2175130/amp/Towns-grammar-schools-table-comes-getting-pupils-Oxbridge.html
    The Daily Mail is a peer-reviewed academic journal that published refereed papers? Huge if true.
    The Report was by Respublica think tank not the Daily Mail.


    "Grammar schools 'can transform white working class areas'" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3888312/amp/Grammars-transform-white-working-class-areas-Report-says-schools-enable-children-achieve-middle-class-backgrounds.html

    Note too even the report you linked too says grammar school areas get higher overall GCSE pass rates than non selective areas
    A think tank report is not a peeer reviewed journal.
    No think tanks tend to be filled with conservative intellectuals rather than the leftwing intellectuals who fill education journals!
    The ones who are too stupid to write papers that are good enough, you say?
    No the ones who get paid more researching for a think tank than they would in academia
  • Good afternoon

    After my daughter and her family experience of their cancelled return flight by Easyjet from Makarresch last Friday, actually returning to Gatwick rather than Manchester near midnight Saturday and then a taxi drive home to North Wales, they have great sympathy for all the passengers caught up across Europe by our air traffic control system failure

    Sky reporting it is total digital failure and some planes are having to land on analogue systems, while planes throughout Europe are currently grounded

    What a mess
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    This story gets weirder and weirder.

    The mother of Spanish football federation president Luis Rubiales has gone on a hunger strike because of the "inhuman hunt" against her son.

    There has been widespread criticism of Rubiales, 46, after he kissed forward Jenni Hermoso on the lips following Spain's Women's World Cup final win.

    His mother, Angeles Bejar, has now locked herself in a church in Motril.

    She told Spanish news agency EFE the strike would continue "indefinite, day and night".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66637880

    Fascinating item by the Sky News Spanish correspondant this morning. Vox Popping shoppers etc in Madrid and finding most thought Rubiales had not really doen anything wrong. Interesting cultural differences.
    I think this story is evidence of deranged the culture war has got. The BBC news coverage is laughable from an organisation that portrays itself as 'impartial'. It is just cheerleading for what it has decided is 'the right side of history'.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,937

    MattW said:

    Today is #HowardCox day, when at midnight he turns from a wazzock into a pumpkin.

    Tomorrow, just under 100% (I make it 97% but won't quibble) of the population of London discover that they are entirely unaffected by the ULEZ expansion.

    What about the population of Thurrock?
    I don't have a % for the population of Thurrock. Do you?

    But I think those who get fined will need to hold their Council to account for refusing to put up warning signs.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Hmm: turns out grammar schools are crap at improving academic outcomes.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/aug/28/english-regions-dominated-by-grammar-schools-do-not-improve-grades-study-says

    "The authors said their evidence suggested there was no case for further expansion of grammar schools in England, and a strong argument for the dismantling of selective school systems that use 11-plus entry exams in areas such as Kent and Trafford.

    Grammar schools have long been criticised for creating a two-tier education system, and for being inaccessible to children from disadvantaged families such as those eligible for free school meals. But the new research goes further in suggesting that concentrations of grammar schools fail to improve academic performance"

    I'm stdruck however by how the Grammar School Heads Association says that that's great, the lack of any difference in academic outcomes means it's not fair to criticise grammar schools. What I can't get my head around is, what's the point of the bloody things been for decades in that case?!

    So despite the misleading headline and the clear desire by the left liberal authors to show that it offers no case for new grammars, read the small print and you find that astoundingly their report finds areas with grammar schools get higher overall GCSE passes than non selective areas.

    Adding to the evidence that 96% of those on free school meals get a GCSE pass in grammars to just 86% of equivalent ability in non selective schools

    "Grammar schools 'can
    transform white working
    class areas'"
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/
    news/article-
    3888312/amp/Grammars-
    transform-white-working-
    class-areas-Report-says-schools-enable-children-
    achieve-middle-class-
    backgrounds.html

    Plus of course the clear evidence that areas with grammar schools are more likely to get pupils into Oxbridge and elite universities than non selective areas

    "Towns that still have grammar schools top the table when it comes to getting pupils to Oxbridge" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2175130/amp/Towns-grammar-schools-table-comes-getting-pupils-Oxbridge.html
    The Daily Mail is a peer-reviewed academic journal that published refereed papers? Huge if true.
    The Report was by Respublica think tank not the Daily Mail.


    "Grammar schools 'can transform white working class areas'" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3888312/amp/Grammars-transform-white-working-class-areas-Report-says-schools-enable-children-achieve-middle-class-backgrounds.html

    Note too even the report you linked too says grammar school areas get higher overall GCSE pass rates than non selective areas
    A think tank report is not a peeer reviewed journal.
    No think tanks tend to be filled with conservative intellectuals rather than the leftwing intellectuals who fill education journals!
    The ones who are too stupid to write papers that are good enough, you say?
    No the ones who get paid more researching for a think tank than they would in academia
    But who can't ands don't get published in refereed journals. Too stupid, see.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 694

    MattW said:

    Today is #HowardCox day, when at midnight he turns from a wazzock into a pumpkin.

    Tomorrow, just under 100% (I make it 97% but won't quibble) of the population of London discover that they are entirely unaffected by the ULEZ expansion.

    I am generally in favour of the ULEZ idea although I think it has been badly implemented.

    But someone working for the London Mayor really should be shot for the stupid lack of legal advice they have taken over signage as reported in the DM today (And no I don't read the DM usually but this came up on my MSN feed).

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12452271/A-blow-ULEZ-expansion-plan-Scaffolder-wins-legal-ruling-signs-ultra-low-emission-zones-sister-scheme-not-lawful.html

    How is it they have managed top put up all those LEZ signs and not realise they were not lawful? Does the Mayor's office not take legal advice?

    (Note I have no idea of the timings on this. The signs could have been put up under Johnson rather than Khan.)

    Interesting, but won't help me as I've been informed I live inside it.

    However both on Saturday and yesterday when returning home from a trip outside the Zone, via different routes, I didn't see any signs telling me I was entering the Zone. There must be a lot of signage going up overnight!
  • TresTres Posts: 2,724
    darkage said:

    This story gets weirder and weirder.

    The mother of Spanish football federation president Luis Rubiales has gone on a hunger strike because of the "inhuman hunt" against her son.

    There has been widespread criticism of Rubiales, 46, after he kissed forward Jenni Hermoso on the lips following Spain's Women's World Cup final win.

    His mother, Angeles Bejar, has now locked herself in a church in Motril.

    She told Spanish news agency EFE the strike would continue "indefinite, day and night".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66637880

    Fascinating item by the Sky News Spanish correspondant this morning. Vox Popping shoppers etc in Madrid and finding most thought Rubiales had not really doen anything wrong. Interesting cultural differences.
    I think this story is evidence of deranged the culture war has got. The BBC news coverage is laughable from an organisation that portrays itself as 'impartial'. It is just cheerleading for what it has decided is 'the right side of history'.

    you are on the 'boys will be boys' side of history I take it?
  • darkage said:

    This story gets weirder and weirder.

    The mother of Spanish football federation president Luis Rubiales has gone on a hunger strike because of the "inhuman hunt" against her son.

    There has been widespread criticism of Rubiales, 46, after he kissed forward Jenni Hermoso on the lips following Spain's Women's World Cup final win.

    His mother, Angeles Bejar, has now locked herself in a church in Motril.

    She told Spanish news agency EFE the strike would continue "indefinite, day and night".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66637880

    Fascinating item by the Sky News Spanish correspondant this morning. Vox Popping shoppers etc in Madrid and finding most thought Rubiales had not really doen anything wrong. Interesting cultural differences.
    I think this story is evidence of deranged the culture war has got. The BBC news coverage is laughable from an organisation that portrays itself as 'impartial'. It is just cheerleading for what it has decided is 'the right side of history'.

    What "culture war"? How is it not being "impartial"? It is reporting the facts of the case, and there is no culture war here. Surely we all agree that women have the right to say no?

    There is no "other side" unless there's a side that thinks that women exist to have men able to force themselves on them. Is there a side that thinks women don't need to consent to sexual activity? Is there a side that thinks if a woman objects, she should be threatened?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    edited August 2023
    On ULEZ if it not a problem as some would suggest why has it generated £224 million in 2022 ?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-65778065
  • Good afternoon

    After my daughter and her family experience of their cancelled return flight by Easyjet from Makarresch last Friday, actually returning to Gatwick rather than Manchester near midnight Saturday and then a taxi drive home to North Wales, they have great sympathy for all the passengers caught up across Europe by our air traffic control system failure

    Sky reporting it is total digital failure and some planes are having to land on analogue systems, while planes throughout Europe are currently grounded

    What a mess

    Eek! Glad I'm not flying today. Then again, from the way that people talk about Tui flights to/from Aberdeen, I think they suffer from total failure every week...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Today is #HowardCox day, when at midnight he turns from a wazzock into a pumpkin.

    Tomorrow, just under 100% (I make it 97% but won't quibble) of the population of London discover that they are entirely unaffected by the ULEZ expansion.

    Wait until hundreds of thousands of fines start dropping on random doors across the country in the next few months, from people who know nothing about this ‘scheme’ until that point. People who just dropped their friend at the airport, or met an old friend for a drink.

    Then there’s the tens of thousands more who will get a deluge of fines, because their number plates got cloned, and find the burden of proof pretty is much reversed in civil court. Obviously none of them will have anything to say to the press on the matter.
    First para: a mistake they should only make once each, and I hope an old "friend" would have told them. Given the publicity, they should know already.

    Second para: that's just another problem known about for years that the current Govt has failed to deal with. Perhaps the Transport Minister needs to spend some time on his core job, rather than trying to save his arse at the next election by spouting incessant BS.

    First para. Glad to know that a £180 fine is a trivial thing to hundreds of thousands of people, many of whom won’t have seen the London-centric publicity, unless there’s national TV and radio ads about it that I’m not seeing?

    Second para. I’ve argued for a long time on here for a move to stamped numberplates. I also think that the costs of such a move, should be bourne to a large extent by those using ANPR for sending out civil penalty notices.

    Khan already has £250m in unpaid fines outstanding on the existing ULEZ scheme, perhaps it’s in his interest to help upgrade the system?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Home Secretary Braverman says police must investigate all thefts

    "Every theft must be investigated, home secretary tells police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66636347

    Just such a shame about the courts.
    And the prisons.

    If the Police even do catch the offender, then the court sees them prosecuted, that doesn't mean much if they get released via the revolving door because prisons are full.
    Hence we need 3 strikes and you are out and will then get a significant prison sentence for thieves
    How does that happen once the courts are even fuller than they are now?
    Ditto prisons. Look what has happened in the States with the three strikes notion.
    The three strikes policy is a notorious failure in the US. It hasn't reduced crime and has resulted in people receiving extreme sentances for minor infractions.
    In California it cut crime significantly

    "Opinion | California's 'Three-Strikes' Law Has Made Big Cuts in Crime - The New York Times" https://www.nytimes.com/1995/04/20/opinion/l-california-s-three-strikes-law-has-made-big-cuts-in-crime-377295.html
    No it didn't. I was waiting for you to pop up with that.

    In fact subsequent sudies showed that crime rates in Califormia started dropping significantly 2 years before the Three-Strikes Law was brought in and corresponded with a large drop in both alcohol consumption and unemployment.

    https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2011/10/11/evidence-does-not-support-three-strikes-law-crime-deterrent
    So no real data there other than a leftwing libertarians believe that falling alcohol levels cut crime.

    What cut crime in New York? Rising arrest rates


    "What Reduced Crime in New York City | NBER" https://www.nber.org/digest/jan03/what-reduced-crime-new-york-city
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277

    nico679 said:

    The stain on humanity repeating her threats to leave the ECHR and suggesting electronic tags for migrants . Why doesn’t she just go the whole hog and enforce certain clothing which can identify the migrant so they can be beaten to a pulp by some marauding racist mobs !

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/nov/27/immigration.immigrationandpublicservices

    Asylum seekers could be electronically tagged rather than locked up in detention centres, the home secretary, David Blunkett, revealed today.

    Mr Blunkett was speaking as he unveiled details of the government's new Asylum Bill. The legislation will bring in powers that will largely be used to tag asylum seekers whose applications have been rejected.

    The home secretary said that he expected a new kind of tag, employing satellite technology to pinpoint the wearer's location, to be used within around 12 to 18 months.

    The package of new measures will also reduce asylum seekers' access to an appeals process more severely than had previously been expected. It will prevent them from applying to the high court or judicial reviews.
    I never liked Blunkett . And you’re also comparing two different things . Labour were still allowing people to claim asylum , this rancid government wants to stop all asylum claims if the migrant came by irregular routes .

    Braverman is an utter disgrace to humanity, beneath contempt.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393

    On ULEZ if it not a problem as some would suggest why has it generated £224 million in 2022 ?

    Because some people still want to use their noncompliant vehicles, but have to pay something for the externality they impose on London. It's actually evidence the system is working.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,411
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    On education, whatever the structure, keeping the feral scum out of the same classroom as the kids who actually want to learn is key.

    My class contained the 30 brightest and best in the year. The disruptive scrotes were kept well away from us and we were able to receive a good education at a bog standard comprehensive.

    Then in 6th form we had the further benefit of small cohorts, as there weren't that many of us doing A Levels.

    I do wonder if the ‘Reverse Grammar School” is the better idea.

    Take the bottom 15% out of the system, and teach them electrics, plumbing, metalwork, and basic accounting.
    Already exists.


    I hate that font. When I am appointed Supreme Commander, it will be changed. This was better: https://cdn.worldvectorlogo.com/logos/royal-air-force.svg


  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,148

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    "Investigate all thefts" will backfire on the Tories given the amount of time the police will spend tracking down stolen bicycles.

    Because tracking down stolen bicycles is exactly what many people think the police should be doing.
    I'll never forget the time my friend had her phone stolen, she went to the police station to say my phone has been stolen and thanks to find my iPhone I know exactly where it is.

    The police response was 'here's your crime reference number, claim on your insurance, we won't go to the address you've provided.'
    “Thank you for calling Sons Of Anarchy Security, your alternative protective services hub. Press 1 for Mayhem. Press 2 for Random Shit. Press 3. For Elvis impersonators.”
  • Good afternoon

    After my daughter and her family experience of their cancelled return flight by Easyjet from Makarresch last Friday, actually returning to Gatwick rather than Manchester near midnight Saturday and then a taxi drive home to North Wales, they have great sympathy for all the passengers caught up across Europe by our air traffic control system failure

    Sky reporting it is total digital failure and some planes are having to land on analogue systems, while planes throughout Europe are currently grounded

    What a mess

    Eek! Glad I'm not flying today. Then again, from the way that people talk about Tui flights to/from Aberdeen, I think they suffer from total failure every week...
    It really seems to be a real headache for anyone flying or hoping to fly in Europe and beyond with Simon Calder suggesting the cancellations and disruption may take several days at least to regain normality
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Hmm: turns out grammar schools are crap at improving academic outcomes.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/aug/28/english-regions-dominated-by-grammar-schools-do-not-improve-grades-study-says

    "The authors said their evidence suggested there was no case for further expansion of grammar schools in England, and a strong argument for the dismantling of selective school systems that use 11-plus entry exams in areas such as Kent and Trafford.

    Grammar schools have long been criticised for creating a two-tier education system, and for being inaccessible to children from disadvantaged families such as those eligible for free school meals. But the new research goes further in suggesting that concentrations of grammar schools fail to improve academic performance"

    I'm stdruck however by how the Grammar School Heads Association says that that's great, the lack of any difference in academic outcomes means it's not fair to criticise grammar schools. What I can't get my head around is, what's the point of the bloody things been for decades in that case?!

    So despite the misleading headline and the clear desire by the left liberal authors to show that it offers no case for new grammars, read the small print and you find that astoundingly their report finds areas with grammar schools get higher overall GCSE passes than non selective areas.

    Adding to the evidence that 96% of those on free school meals get a GCSE pass in grammars to just 86% of equivalent ability in non selective schools

    "Grammar schools 'can
    transform white working
    class areas'"
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/
    news/article-
    3888312/amp/Grammars-
    transform-white-working-
    class-areas-Report-says-schools-enable-children-
    achieve-middle-class-
    backgrounds.html

    Plus of course the clear evidence that areas with grammar schools are more likely to get pupils into Oxbridge and elite universities than non selective areas

    "Towns that still have grammar schools top the table when it comes to getting pupils to Oxbridge" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2175130/amp/Towns-grammar-schools-table-comes-getting-pupils-Oxbridge.html
    The Daily Mail is a peer-reviewed academic journal that published refereed papers? Huge if true.
    The Report was by Respublica think tank not the Daily Mail.


    "Grammar schools 'can transform white working class areas'" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3888312/amp/Grammars-transform-white-working-class-areas-Report-says-schools-enable-children-achieve-middle-class-backgrounds.html

    Note too even the report you linked too says grammar school areas get higher overall GCSE pass rates than non selective areas
    A think tank report is not a peeer reviewed journal.
    No think tanks tend to be filled with conservative intellectuals rather than the leftwing intellectuals who fill education journals!
    The ones who are too stupid to write papers that are good enough, you say?
    No the ones who get paid more researching for a think tank than they would in academia
    But who can't ands don't get published in refereed journals. Too stupid, see.
    There are some conservative journals published.

    However of course most are preaching leftwing ideology to the likes of you and speaking to themselves and have little interest in conservative arguments.

    Hence conservatives go to think tanks to publish research the left will ignore as it does not suit their ideology
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    On education, whatever the structure, keeping the feral scum out of the same classroom as the kids who actually want to learn is key.

    My class contained the 30 brightest and best in the year. The disruptive scrotes were kept well away from us and we were able to receive a good education at a bog standard comprehensive.

    Then in 6th form we had the further benefit of small cohorts, as there weren't that many of us doing A Levels.

    I do wonder if the ‘Reverse Grammar School” is the better idea.

    Take the bottom 15% out of the system, and teach them electrics, plumbing, metalwork, and basic accounting.
    Already exists.


    I hate that font. When I am appointed Supreme Commander, it will be changed. This was better: https://cdn.worldvectorlogo.com/logos/royal-air-force.svg


    Linky dud. Presumably you mean this one? along the fuselage?

    Alas the RN has caught the same disease, presumably off MoD.

    https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/view/1678359
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,256
    .
    Sandpit said:

    On education, whatever the structure, keeping the feral scum out of the same classroom as the kids who actually want to learn is key.

    My class contained the 30 brightest and best in the year. The disruptive scrotes were kept well away from us and we were able to receive a good education at a bog standard comprehensive.

    Then in 6th form we had the further benefit of small cohorts, as there weren't that many of us doing A Levels.

    I do wonder if the ‘Reverse Grammar School” is the better idea.

    Take the bottom 15% out of the system, and teach them electrics, plumbing, metalwork, and basic accounting.
    That was part of the original postwar 'tripartite education' plan.
    Partly because the system wasn't funded properly, it failed, as very few technical schools were introduced.

    The bitter legacy of those excluded by the 11 plus has poisoned the education debate ever since.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,937

    Good afternoon

    After my daughter and her family experience of their cancelled return flight by Easyjet from Makarresch last Friday, actually returning to Gatwick rather than Manchester near midnight Saturday and then a taxi drive home to North Wales, they have great sympathy for all the passengers caught up across Europe by our air traffic control system failure

    Sky reporting it is total digital failure and some planes are having to land on analogue systems, while planes throughout Europe are currently grounded

    What a mess

    I hope it gets sorted.

    When I worked at NATS the only huge problem we had was caused by someone putting a digger blade in the wrong direction in Ealing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    "Investigate all thefts" will backfire on the Tories given the amount of time the police will spend tracking down stolen bicycles.

    Absolutely not, for the victims of cycle theft their crime is as significant as any other.

    Indeed in some villages cycle theft may be the biggest crime
    It will backfire because:
    a) the expectation is set that the police will "investigate all thefts"
    b) in practice the police can't investigate most thefts because there aren't enough police officers or interest from the CPS
    c) every single local crime will be WHY HASN'T MY MP STOPPED THIS?

    I think a crackdown on petty criminality is a great idea. Genuinely. But to do that you need to resource the shit out of it. And the government just want to shit on it, which despite the similarity in the crayon drawing of a policy isn't the same thing at all.

    Its the same problem as STOP THE BOATS. Easy to draw with your red crayon, harder to do when you don't fund adequate people to actually stop them.
    The agenda is what the public want, at the end of the day most people are far more likely to be victims of theft than murder or rape of even sexual assault.

    So the police should focus more on the former as well as the latter
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,302
    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    The stain on humanity repeating her threats to leave the ECHR and suggesting electronic tags for migrants . Why doesn’t she just go the whole hog and enforce certain clothing which can identify the migrant so they can be beaten to a pulp by some marauding racist mobs !

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/nov/27/immigration.immigrationandpublicservices

    Asylum seekers could be electronically tagged rather than locked up in detention centres, the home secretary, David Blunkett, revealed today.

    Mr Blunkett was speaking as he unveiled details of the government's new Asylum Bill. The legislation will bring in powers that will largely be used to tag asylum seekers whose applications have been rejected.

    The home secretary said that he expected a new kind of tag, employing satellite technology to pinpoint the wearer's location, to be used within around 12 to 18 months.

    The package of new measures will also reduce asylum seekers' access to an appeals process more severely than had previously been expected. It will prevent them from applying to the high court or judicial reviews.
    I never liked Blunkett . And you’re also comparing two different things . Labour were still allowing people to claim asylum , this rancid government wants to stop all asylum claims if the migrant came by irregular routes .

    Braverman is an utter disgrace to humanity, beneath contempt.
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/may/23/immigration.immigrationandpublicservices2

    Tony Blair has taken personal control of asylum policy and is considering proposals to mobilise Royal Navy warships to intercept people traffickers in the Mediterranean and carry out bulk deportations in RAF transport planes, according to a Downing Street document passed to the Guardian.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031
    Carnyx said:

    On ULEZ if it not a problem as some would suggest why has it generated £224 million in 2022 ?

    Because some people still want to use their noncompliant vehicles, but have to pay something for the externality they impose on London. It's actually evidence the system is working.
    Because some people have no choice but to continue using their noncompliant vehicles, being unable to afford something similar that is complaint.

    Ask any tradesman with an old Transit van if he wants to spend £15k in cash on a compliant one, or keep paying the £12.50 per day? And if he lives just outside the zone, he has no incentives to trade in and doesn’t want a loan anyway.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    The stain on humanity repeating her threats to leave the ECHR and suggesting electronic tags for migrants . Why doesn’t she just go the whole hog and enforce certain clothing which can identify the migrant so they can be beaten to a pulp by some marauding racist mobs !

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/nov/27/immigration.immigrationandpublicservices

    Asylum seekers could be electronically tagged rather than locked up in detention centres, the home secretary, David Blunkett, revealed today.

    Mr Blunkett was speaking as he unveiled details of the government's new Asylum Bill. The legislation will bring in powers that will largely be used to tag asylum seekers whose applications have been rejected.

    The home secretary said that he expected a new kind of tag, employing satellite technology to pinpoint the wearer's location, to be used within around 12 to 18 months.

    The package of new measures will also reduce asylum seekers' access to an appeals process more severely than had previously been expected. It will prevent them from applying to the high court or judicial reviews.
    I never liked Blunkett . And you’re also comparing two different things . Labour were still allowing people to claim asylum , this rancid government wants to stop all asylum claims if the migrant came by irregular routes .

    Braverman is an utter disgrace to humanity, beneath contempt.
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/may/23/immigration.immigrationandpublicservices2

    Tony Blair has taken personal control of asylum policy and is considering proposals to mobilise Royal Navy warships to intercept people traffickers in the Mediterranean and carry out bulk deportations in RAF transport planes, according to a Downing Street document passed to the Guardian.
    LOL, well found!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,256
    darkage said:

    This story gets weirder and weirder.

    The mother of Spanish football federation president Luis Rubiales has gone on a hunger strike because of the "inhuman hunt" against her son.

    There has been widespread criticism of Rubiales, 46, after he kissed forward Jenni Hermoso on the lips following Spain's Women's World Cup final win.

    His mother, Angeles Bejar, has now locked herself in a church in Motril.

    She told Spanish news agency EFE the strike would continue "indefinite, day and night".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66637880

    Fascinating item by the Sky News Spanish correspondant this morning. Vox Popping shoppers etc in Madrid and finding most thought Rubiales had not really doen anything wrong. Interesting cultural differences.
    I think this story is evidence of deranged the culture war has got. The BBC news coverage is laughable from an organisation that portrays itself as 'impartial'. It is just cheerleading for what it has decided is 'the right side of history'.

    Why is there a debate over this ?

    The woman involved said she did not consent.
    Had Rubiales apologised, it might have ended there.
    That he refuses to do so is a very clear demonstration that he's in the wrong.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    The stain on humanity repeating her threats to leave the ECHR and suggesting electronic tags for migrants . Why doesn’t she just go the whole hog and enforce certain clothing which can identify the migrant so they can be beaten to a pulp by some marauding racist mobs !

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/nov/27/immigration.immigrationandpublicservices

    Asylum seekers could be electronically tagged rather than locked up in detention centres, the home secretary, David Blunkett, revealed today.

    Mr Blunkett was speaking as he unveiled details of the government's new Asylum Bill. The legislation will bring in powers that will largely be used to tag asylum seekers whose applications have been rejected.

    The home secretary said that he expected a new kind of tag, employing satellite technology to pinpoint the wearer's location, to be used within around 12 to 18 months.

    The package of new measures will also reduce asylum seekers' access to an appeals process more severely than had previously been expected. It will prevent them from applying to the high court or judicial reviews.
    I never liked Blunkett . And you’re also comparing two different things . Labour were still allowing people to claim asylum , this rancid government wants to stop all asylum claims if the migrant came by irregular routes .

    Braverman is an utter disgrace to humanity, beneath contempt.
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/may/23/immigration.immigrationandpublicservices2

    Tony Blair has taken personal control of asylum policy and is considering proposals to mobilise Royal Navy warships to intercept people traffickers in the Mediterranean and carry out bulk deportations in RAF transport planes, according to a Downing Street document passed to the Guardian.
    You seem desperate to make these comparisons as if this justifies the current government policy . And I’ll repeat no 10 effectively wants to stop anyone from claiming asylum . They don’t want any asylum seekers . Labour never had that policy.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited August 2023

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/middle-class-spending-private-tutors-child-left-behind/ (£££)

    The Telegraph reports record demand for private tutors, as private schools are very expensive and grammar schools hard to get into (and only exist in a couple of places).

    Good news for @ydoethur and @Dura_Ace but bad news for educational equality?

    Round here, private education is mainly seen as a number of shops offering after school tuition in various subjects (and separately, in Koranic studies) but this low-level provision has so far largely escaped political controversy over independent teaching.

    There is no such thing as educational equality except in the eyes of socialist ideologues. Some are more academic than others, just as some are better at sport or music than others.

    Plus even if you abolished all private, grammar and free schools middle class parents would just buy property in the most expensive catchment areas of the best schools or go to church more often for the Vicar's reference for a top church school
    Excellent suggestion to abolish the church schools, part of the problem sorted. Thank you.
    Absolutely not, we need more church schools, more grammar schools, more private schools, more academies, more free schools and more choice.

    The more choice parents have beyond the one size fits all socialist idea of a comprehensive school the better
    Hi @hyufd,

    You refer to Comprehensives as a socialist idea and it is certainly true that does result in less choice (although it is arguable whether there really is choice for most people to go to a church school or a grammar school or a private school as all have significant restrictions that prevent most from attending them).

    You also have in the past accepted I am much more of a free market person than yourself and I think you are right in that conclusion, so I'm definitely not socialist.

    How do you then rationalise that I am very pro comprehensives and anti grammar schools?

    One possible answer is that I am an idiot, but I'm hoping that isn't your conclusion.

    PS That wasn't an invitation to get into a discussion about Grammar schools which I won't do, but the rationalisation this is a socialist idea (I do accept those in favour of Grammars are from the right, but not the mainstream Conservatives
    who have implemented and
    supported Comprehensives)
    I assume you are not also anti
    academies, anti free schools
    and anti church schools too
    as most socialists are?
    MONARCHY = SOCIALISM!
    :lol:

    MONARCHY = TORYISM.

    State control of the economy= Socialism
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,148
    A
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Sandpit said:

    On education, whatever the structure, keeping the feral scum out of the same classroom as the kids who actually want to learn is key.

    My class contained the 30 brightest and best in the year. The disruptive scrotes were kept well away from us and we were able to receive a good education at a bog standard comprehensive.

    Then in 6th form we had the further benefit of small cohorts, as there weren't that many of us doing A Levels.

    I do wonder if the ‘Reverse Grammar School” is the better idea.

    Take the bottom 15% out of the system, and teach them electrics, plumbing, metalwork, and basic accounting.
    That was part of the original postwar 'tripartite education' plan.
    Partly because the system wasn't funded properly, it failed, as very few technical schools were introduced.

    The bitter legacy of those excluded by the 11 plus has poisoned the education debate ever since.
    I would go the other way and mandate shop lessons for the bright. That way we might get people running things who have some clue about the physical world.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,148
    Nigelb said:

    darkage said:

    This story gets weirder and weirder.

    The mother of Spanish football federation president Luis Rubiales has gone on a hunger strike because of the "inhuman hunt" against her son.

    There has been widespread criticism of Rubiales, 46, after he kissed forward Jenni Hermoso on the lips following Spain's Women's World Cup final win.

    His mother, Angeles Bejar, has now locked herself in a church in Motril.

    She told Spanish news agency EFE the strike would continue "indefinite, day and night".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66637880

    Fascinating item by the Sky News Spanish correspondant this morning. Vox Popping shoppers etc in Madrid and finding most thought Rubiales had not really doen anything wrong. Interesting cultural differences.
    I think this story is evidence of deranged the culture war has got. The BBC news coverage is laughable from an organisation that portrays itself as 'impartial'. It is just cheerleading for what it has decided is 'the right side of history'.

    Why is there a debate over this ?

    The woman involved said she did not consent.
    Had Rubiales apologised, it might have ended there.
    That he refuses to do so is a very clear demonstration that he's in the wrong.
    I blame Canada.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,302
    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    The stain on humanity repeating her threats to leave the ECHR and suggesting electronic tags for migrants . Why doesn’t she just go the whole hog and enforce certain clothing which can identify the migrant so they can be beaten to a pulp by some marauding racist mobs !

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/nov/27/immigration.immigrationandpublicservices

    Asylum seekers could be electronically tagged rather than locked up in detention centres, the home secretary, David Blunkett, revealed today.

    Mr Blunkett was speaking as he unveiled details of the government's new Asylum Bill. The legislation will bring in powers that will largely be used to tag asylum seekers whose applications have been rejected.

    The home secretary said that he expected a new kind of tag, employing satellite technology to pinpoint the wearer's location, to be used within around 12 to 18 months.

    The package of new measures will also reduce asylum seekers' access to an appeals process more severely than had previously been expected. It will prevent them from applying to the high court or judicial reviews.
    I never liked Blunkett . And you’re also comparing two different things . Labour were still allowing people to claim asylum , this rancid government wants to stop all asylum claims if the migrant came by irregular routes .

    Braverman is an utter disgrace to humanity, beneath contempt.
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/may/23/immigration.immigrationandpublicservices2

    Tony Blair has taken personal control of asylum policy and is considering proposals to mobilise Royal Navy warships to intercept people traffickers in the Mediterranean and carry out bulk deportations in RAF transport planes, according to a Downing Street document passed to the Guardian.
    You seem desperate to make these comparisons as if this justifies the current government policy . And I’ll repeat no 10 effectively wants to stop anyone from claiming asylum . They don’t want any asylum seekers . Labour never had that policy.
    Yes they did:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/feb/08/immigrationandpublicservices.immigration

    Blair targets huge asylum cuts

    Blair: "In the end, the only way of dealing with this is stop the numbers coming in. Once people get in, unless you can discover what country they have come from and get that country to agree to take them back, then it is very difficult to get them back.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    "Investigate all thefts" will backfire on the Tories given the amount of time the police will spend tracking down stolen bicycles.

    Absolutely not, for the victims of cycle theft their crime is as significant as any other.

    Indeed in some villages cycle theft may be the biggest crime
    It will backfire because:
    a) the expectation is set that the police will "investigate all thefts"
    b) in practice the police can't investigate most thefts because there aren't enough police officers or interest from the CPS
    c) every single local crime will be WHY HASN'T MY MP STOPPED THIS?

    I think a crackdown on petty criminality is a great idea. Genuinely. But to do that you need to resource the shit out of it. And the government just want to shit on it, which despite the similarity in the crayon drawing of a policy isn't the same thing at all.

    Its the same problem as STOP THE BOATS. Easy to draw with your red crayon, harder to do when you don't fund adequate people to actually stop them.
    The agenda is what the public want, at the end of the day most people are far more likely to be victims of theft than murder or rape of even sexual assault.

    So the police should focus more on the former as well as the latter
    We both agree this is what the public want. We both agree this is what the public need. Where we disagree is that you think the police and the courts are properly funded and I do not. My disbelief is based on facts, your belief is based on...?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,937
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Home Secretary Braverman says police must investigate all thefts

    "Every theft must be investigated, home secretary tells police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66636347

    Just such a shame about the courts.
    And the prisons.

    If the Police even do catch the offender, then the court sees them prosecuted, that doesn't mean much if they get released via the revolving door because prisons are full.
    Hence we need 3 strikes and you are out and will then get a significant prison sentence for thieves
    How does that happen once the courts are even fuller than they are now?
    Ditto prisons. Look what has happened in the States with the three strikes notion.
    The three strikes policy is a notorious failure in the US. It hasn't reduced crime and has resulted in people receiving extreme sentances for minor infractions.
    In California it cut crime significantly

    "Opinion | California's 'Three-Strikes' Law Has Made Big Cuts in Crime - The New York Times" https://www.nytimes.com/1995/04/20/opinion/l-california-s-three-strikes-law-has-made-big-cuts-in-crime-377295.html
    No it didn't. I was waiting for you to pop up with that.

    In fact subsequent sudies showed that crime rates in Califormia started dropping significantly 2 years before the Three-Strikes Law was brought in and corresponded with a large drop in both alcohol consumption and unemployment.

    https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2011/10/11/evidence-does-not-support-three-strikes-law-crime-deterrent
    So no real data there other than a leftwing libertarians believe that falling alcohol levels cut crime.

    What cut crime in New York? Rising arrest rates


    "What Reduced Crime in New York City | NBER" https://www.nber.org/digest/jan03/what-reduced-crime-new-york-city
    I wonder if now he's switched to the dark side, Rudy Giuliani will meet any of the people he locked up when (if, I suppose) he reaches prison himself ? !!
  • Nigelb said:

    darkage said:

    This story gets weirder and weirder.

    The mother of Spanish football federation president Luis Rubiales has gone on a hunger strike because of the "inhuman hunt" against her son.

    There has been widespread criticism of Rubiales, 46, after he kissed forward Jenni Hermoso on the lips following Spain's Women's World Cup final win.

    His mother, Angeles Bejar, has now locked herself in a church in Motril.

    She told Spanish news agency EFE the strike would continue "indefinite, day and night".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66637880

    Fascinating item by the Sky News Spanish correspondant this morning. Vox Popping shoppers etc in Madrid and finding most thought Rubiales had not really doen anything wrong. Interesting cultural differences.
    I think this story is evidence of deranged the culture war has got. The BBC news coverage is laughable from an organisation that portrays itself as 'impartial'. It is just cheerleading for what it has decided is 'the right side of history'.

    Why is there a debate over this ?

    The woman involved said she did not consent.
    Had Rubiales apologised, it might have ended there.
    That he refuses to do so is a very clear demonstration that he's in the wrong.
    That she was threatened for saying she did not consent is the most remarkable bit of the entire story.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,256
    edited August 2023
    Nigelb said:

    darkage said:

    This story gets weirder and weirder.

    The mother of Spanish football federation president Luis Rubiales has gone on a hunger strike because of the "inhuman hunt" against her son.

    There has been widespread criticism of Rubiales, 46, after he kissed forward Jenni Hermoso on the lips following Spain's Women's World Cup final win.

    His mother, Angeles Bejar, has now locked herself in a church in Motril.

    She told Spanish news agency EFE the strike would continue "indefinite, day and night".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66637880

    Fascinating item by the Sky News Spanish correspondant this morning. Vox Popping shoppers etc in Madrid and finding most thought Rubiales had not really doen anything wrong. Interesting cultural differences.
    I think this story is evidence of deranged the culture war has got. The BBC news coverage is laughable from an organisation that portrays itself as 'impartial'. It is just cheerleading for what it has decided is 'the right side of history'.

    Why is there a debate over this ?

    The woman involved said she did not consent.
    Had Rubiales apologised, it might have ended there.
    That he refuses to do so is a very clear demonstration that he's in the wrong.
    Note that under our law, such behaviour is, prima facie, assault.
    So it's hardly 'cheerleading' by our national broadcaster.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    "Investigate all thefts" will backfire on the Tories given the amount of time the police will spend tracking down stolen bicycles.

    Absolutely not, for the victims of cycle theft their crime is as significant as any other.

    Indeed in some villages cycle theft may be the biggest crime
    It will backfire because:
    a) the expectation is set that the police will "investigate all thefts"
    b) in practice the police can't investigate most thefts because there aren't enough police officers or interest from the CPS
    c) every single local crime will be WHY HASN'T MY MP STOPPED THIS?

    I think a crackdown on petty criminality is a great idea. Genuinely. But to do that you need to resource the shit out of it. And the government just want to shit on it, which despite the similarity in the crayon drawing of a policy isn't the same thing at all.

    Its the same problem as STOP THE BOATS. Easy to draw with your red crayon, harder to do when you don't fund adequate people to actually stop them.
    The agenda is what the public want, at the end of the day most people are far more likely to be victims of theft than murder or rape of even sexual assault.

    So the police should focus more on the former as well as the latter
    I think you must mean "more on ... than on ..." (at least grammatically).

    But probably your fingers issued you with a caution when you tried to type that.
  • A

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Sandpit said:

    On education, whatever the structure, keeping the feral scum out of the same classroom as the kids who actually want to learn is key.

    My class contained the 30 brightest and best in the year. The disruptive scrotes were kept well away from us and we were able to receive a good education at a bog standard comprehensive.

    Then in 6th form we had the further benefit of small cohorts, as there weren't that many of us doing A Levels.

    I do wonder if the ‘Reverse Grammar School” is the better idea.

    Take the bottom 15% out of the system, and teach them electrics, plumbing, metalwork, and basic accounting.
    That was part of the original postwar 'tripartite education' plan.
    Partly because the system wasn't funded properly, it failed, as very few technical schools were introduced.

    The bitter legacy of those excluded by the 11 plus has poisoned the education debate ever since.
    I would go the other way and mandate shop lessons for the bright. That way we might get people running things who have some clue about the physical world.
    Shop? Sounds too American. And antiquated. These days it is all about Resistant Materials, and Design & Technology.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    Re the header: "the controversial winner of WH2016", surely. Trump did not win WH2020.
This discussion has been closed.