But in response to the "this shows why Labour are nowhere in the south-east" comments -- by the same token, might I suggest the reactions in this thread show why the Conservatives have become a southern phenomenon. The righteous indignation at someone who dares to question their dominance and special treatment, and arrogant claims of how they "subsidise" the lazy scroungers from the other regions -- as someone else said, this is a prime example of why the Tories will once again become a southeast enclave at the next election, probably losing major ground even in the southwest (one of the only other regions where they made any real progress in 2010) since they've also been getting inferior treatment to the southeast despite their equally serious floods.
QUOTE "…Like other struggling competitors before him, Farage is quick to allege the use of intimidation: “You’re the little old dear at number 33. The postman delivers the ballot paper. Two minutes later, there’s a knock on the door. It’s the Labour canvasser. ‘Do you want some help with that? Can I take that from you?’ They’ve even got a barcoding system.”
I have been there for three weeks.
- There is no barcode system.
- All the postal votes landed at once. That's 19,000 in total. The most people we have had in one day is just over 150 people.
- There are more people Labour hasn't spoken to than have spoken to.
- The only reported incidents by residents have been between the BNP and UKIP. Outside the Mountain Ash pub and then in Sale on a BNP mass canvass. Given the BNP leaflets are predominenetly anti-UKIP I'd guess there has been tension between the two.
- Given that the last poll I saw UKIP were disliked by 57% of voters it is no surprise that signs saying NO BNP or UKIP on this doorstep have appeared and UKIP's unpopularity is not due to 'lack of awareness' but genuine dislike. A reaction to their popularity. It's hardly surprising that Labour canvassers are finding a strong anti-UKIP vote.
- Canvassing Sale Road. There were a lot of UKIP garden posters up (50:50) from people who had not canvassed UKIP. It transpired that most people were not interested in politics and just said alright yes in an 'I'm not bothered' manner. One was unaware he had one in his garden.
-There has been serious questions of the UKIP candidate's claims in newspaper articles. Wythenshawe man living in leafy Cheshire. Self made but who's company did not survive but did take £100,000 of EU cash. Farage has admitted UKIP have a candidate problems as a Party.
It all takes it's toll and if UKIP do lose, then it is simply this; people themselves chose not to vote for them.
What about stories of UKIP supporting pensioners have "nazi, racist scum" shouted in their faces. Are you going to tell us that is untrue as well?
@BBCScotlandNews Danny Alexander has just been on the radio denying that Osborne has said there will be no currency union.
The government's PR operation is utterly laughable. Today's shambolic messaging is a classic of the genre.
The BBC is fairly clear that tomorrow, and in ensuing days, there will be a concerted attack by all the Unionist parties, stating that a shared £ is not on the cards.
How will the Yes campaign cope with figures as popular with the scottish public as Osborne wee Danny and Ed Balls trying to bluff it out and lay down the law?
The Treasury Perm Sec (or one of them, does it have two now?) has "helping the campaign against independence" (or some such wording) as one of his performance targets for the year. The Treasury is no honest broker when it comes to Scottish Independence (which is itself absolutely scandalous to my mind). I'm not sure the unionist parties have made the right call on this but in any event an independent Scotland would have perfectly acceptable alternatives (including using sterling outside a currency union though I dont think that would be the best outcome).
Danny Alexander has just denied the story apparently - here we go again...
The views of a Scottish Lib Dem (even if correctly reported) are irrelevant. The only views that matter are those of Osborne and Balls. As one of them is going to be Chancellor.
The Tories don't want to break up Britain, Labour are desperate to keep Scotland and SLAB MPs. They will rule out currency union.
How will the Yes campaign cope with figures as popular with the scottish public as Osborne wee Danny and Ed Balls trying to bluff it out and lay down the law?
*tears of laughter etc.*
I suspect most of them won't have a clue who they are
How will the Yes campaign cope with figures as popular with the scottish public as Osborne wee Danny and Ed Balls trying to bluff it out and lay down the law?
*tears of laughter etc.*
I suspect most of them won't have a clue who they are
I suspect more pandas than scottish tory MPs, a lib dem meltdown in scotland and Balls coming to scotland and 'saving' the scottish labour campaign in 2011 proves the scottish public know perfectly well who they are.
But PB tories and kippers know best when it comes to scottish public opinion. Don't you?
@BBCScotlandNews Danny Alexander has just been on the radio denying that Osborne has said there will be no currency union.
The government's PR operation is utterly laughable. Today's shambolic messaging is a classic of the genre.
The BBC is fairly clear that tomorrow, and in ensuing days, there will be a concerted attack by all the Unionist parties, stating that a shared £ is not on the cards.
The Treasury Perm Sec (or one of them, does it have two now?) has "helping the campaign against independence" (or some such wording) as one of his performance targets for the year. The Treasury is no honest broker when it comes to Scottish Independence (which is itself absolutely scandalous to my mind). I'm not sure the unionist parties have made the right call on this but in any event an independent Scotland would have perfectly acceptable alternatives (including using sterling outside a currency union though I dont think that would be the best outcome).
1. Trouble is, the Nats have foolishly nailed their colours to a shared sterling zone. Now that this is apparently unavailable they have to retreat to a Plan B. This is not ideal when selling independence as a no-risk bet. Is it?
2. What the F is plan B anyway? Joining the euro is unfeasible for now. Using sterling outside a union is worse than being inside the union - they will e subject to rUK interest rates with no political or fiscal control at all, no lender of last resort &c.
3. That leaves an independent Scottish currency, as far as I can see. But then they would face penal interest rates as they fought to achieve credibility.
Odss on winning the Premier League versus deficit.
Chelsea 7/4 (0) Arsenal 6/1 (2) Man City 6/5 (3) Liverpool 10/1 (7) Tottenham 200/1 (10)
Everyone has a game in hand on Chelsea. But what strikes me is how a 3 point deficit sees Spurs considered 20 times less likely to win the League than Liverpool. Are they really such no hopers?
Dunno but I took a couple of quid on Betfair on Arsenal as they were getting thrashed at Anfield. Markets always seem to overreact like that.
Arsenal will find a way to win it. City and Chelsea are better sides when at their best, but they seem to struggle sometimes to put poorer opposition away. Arsenal are pretty ruthless on that front. Lots of last minute goals. Anyone who has seen a bit of Spurs this season might hesitate to say they'll even finish in the top 6 - that will depend on Man Utd sustaining their current crappiness. Spurs getting close to wining the PL is totally and utterly out of the question.
They can't be that bad with 47 points from 25 games. Do you put it all down to luck? Arsenal don't win trophies anymore. It's all about getting into the top 4 and continually qualifying for the Champions League. Silverware isn't a necessary part of the business model.
@BBCScotlandNews Danny Alexander has just been on the radio denying that Osborne has said there will be no currency union.
The government's PR operation is utterly laughable. Today's shambolic messaging is a classic of the genre.
The BBC is fairly clear that tomorrow, and in ensuing days, there will be a concerted attack by all the Unionist parties, stating that a shared £ is not on the cards.
"four principal by-elections last Thursday. The Liberal Democrats received disappointing results in the two by-elections they stood candidates in." "... Liberal Democrat candidate John Candler came fourth with 15.2% of the vote. .. ....Sue Ross for the Liberal Democrats came fifth of eight with 6%."
"On a brighter note we congratulate Liberal Democrat Richard Shrimpton who gained a seat from the Independents on Rawcliffe Parish Council in an unopposed election."
It's made out to be a big deal but I'm not so sure taking the currency union ball home is going to seal the deal for the unionists. Particularly if Osborne is seen to be the one to do it. I bet some people will be tempted to vote 'yes' just to see the snide grin wiped off his face.
I can understand why the unionists are ruling out a currency union but could they legally do that? You might think the Scots voting to leave the Union would mean they forfeited their right to control over the UK currency. But is that strictly true. Would they be entitled to negotiate which bits of the UK they wanted to keep? If assest are divided up does that include something like the Bank of England too?
But PB tories and kippers know best when it comes to scottish public opinion. Don't you?
Well, the PB tories knew you weren't getting a currency union
I certainly haven't forgotten that gullible PB tories always believe posturing without thinking it through. That's how Cammie keeps getting humiliated by his own backbenchers after all his Cast Iron Pledges and promises turn to dust.
Having read that story on the BBC site about the treasury advice on a possible currency union I am at a loss to know what the fuss is about. The treasury don't seem to be saying anything that isn't common sense and, what is more, hasn't been demonstrated as true by the events in the Euro over recent years. For Alexander, Balls and Osborne to say that they accept the advice of HM Treasury seems no more than could be expected on such a technical and not political bit of advice.
Perhaps, on reflection, that is the problem. Someone has spoken truth unto power and the people who want the power don't like the truth.
*tears of laughter* unspoofable, etc.*
I don't know what the phrases mean but they seem obligatory in any post discussing the issue of Sottish Independence on this site.
I can understand why the unionists are ruling out a currency union but could they legally do that?
They cant legally bind the next Parliament but given they are likely, between them, to control the next Parliament they can say what they will do. You cant force a country (either rUK or Scotland) into a currency union against its will. You can try to persuade them its in their interests but when they have contracted out the decision to people who have a vested interest in opposing independence they may not get the right answer.
It's made out to be a big deal but I'm not so sure taking the currency union ball home is going to seal the deal for the unionists. Particularly if Osborne is seen to be the one to do it. I bet some people will be tempted to vote 'yes' just to see the snide grin wiped off his face.
2% of the scottish public rated it as the important consideration while it was 8th in the list of issues for indendence. Having the toxic Osbrowne fronting the posturing will be making SLAB shiver in fear. There's already a breakaway scottish labour No group that won't go near the tories and this will just pile on the pressure.
@BBCScotlandNews Danny Alexander has just been on the radio denying that Osborne has said there will be no currency union.
The government's PR operation is utterly laughable. Today's shambolic messaging is a classic of the genre.
The BBC is fairly clear that tomorrow, and in ensuing days, there will be a concerted attack by all the Unionist parties, stating that a shared £ is not on the cards.
This makes sense as it is in the interests of all of them (for different reasons) to secure a No vote.
What will Salmond do then? Say they are lying?
Use sterling anyway? Montenegro has been using the Euro for years, despite being 'banned' from doing so.
There are serious problems with using a foreign currency with no fixed arrangements for mutual fiscal oversight. Montenegro is unable to print euros, has no lender of last resort, no say over interest rates and forex rates, and is now anyway knuckling under and agreeing to eurozone rules:
It's a solution of sorts but my bet is that it would be a humiliating solution for Salmond.
I agree it doesnt seem the best solution. A "scottish pound" pegged at parity to sterling would seem to be a better approach if a currency union is ruled out. I mean they already have separate notes so who would even notice?
@BBCScotlandNews Danny Alexander has just been on the radio denying that Osborne has said there will be no currency union.
The government's PR operation is utterly laughable. Today's shambolic messaging is a classic of the genre.
The BBC is fairly clear that tomorrow, and in ensuing days, there will be a concerted attack by all the Unionist parties, stating that a shared £ is not on the cards.
This makes sense as it is in the interests of all of them (for different reasons) to secure a No vote.
What will Salmond do then? Say they are lying?
Use sterling anyway? Montenegro has been using the Euro for years, despite being 'banned' from doing so.
There are serious problems with using a foreign currency with no fixed arrangements for mutual fiscal oversight. Montenegro is unable to print euros, has no lender of last resort, no say over interest rates and forex rates, and is now anyway knuckling under and agreeing to eurozone rules:
@blairmcdougall@meljomur we either share currency and share debt or none of those they go hand in hand and you know it
rUK could afford to shoulder Scotland's debts if Scotland reneges (though it would invoke enormous enmity between the two nations and lead to serious bitterness: hardly inducive to creating the "friendly neighbours" Salmond promises). You could then expect rUK to make counterclaims on Scottish oil assets (developed by UK firms etc).
All very very unplesant, not the velvet divorce the Nats are trying to sell.
Plus Scotland would then have a bitch of a time trying to raise money on the international markets: Scotland, the new country that defaulted on its debts before it even started. Good luck with that.
'A "scottish pound" pegged at parity to sterling would seem to be a better approach if a currency union is ruled out'
That seemed to work out for Ireland prior to the Punt.
No, that was the Punt (for the first 50 years of its existence), prior to that the Free State just used sterling, after that the Punt left a sterling peg and joined the EMS (effectively a DM peg).
It's made out to be a big deal but I'm not so sure taking the currency union ball home is going to seal the deal for the unionists. Particularly if Osborne is seen to be the one to do it. I bet some people will be tempted to vote 'yes' just to see the snide grin wiped off his face.
2% of the scottish public rated it as the important consideration while it was 8th in the list of issues for indendence. Having the toxic Osbrowne fronting the posturing will be making SLAB shiver in fear. There's already a breakaway scottish labour No group that won't go near the tories and this will just pile on the pressure.
I'm not sure "unionism" isn't a bit of a myth. The sane Englishman in the street thinks it makes no odds whatever to him what happens to Scotland, and a hell of a lot of difference to Scotland, and vaguely hopes the outcome is whatever's best for Scotland. Refusing a currency union needn't be evidence of a cunning plan rather than a disinclination to get involved in an arrangement which will cost rUK a great deal of time and effort and yield no benefit whatsoever. If Eck's vision thing doesn't extend to having his own currency when even Iceland (pop. 340,000 - half of Glasgow) cam manage it what is his problem?
though it would invoke enormous enmity between the two nations and lead to serious bitterness: hardly inducive to creating the "friendly neighbours" Salmond promises
Have you been drinking very heavily? What planet are you living on when you actually believe a tory as toxic as Osborne is in scotland will be able to posture on denying use of the pound without that being seen by the scottish public as creating emnity and serious bitterness?
ROFL
I've already seen some bystander interviews on the scottish news positing Osborne's stance and they were not good for the No campaign. Quite the reverse.
You must be a very dainty and posh chap to be so delightfully naive.
@blairmcdougall@meljomur we either share currency and share debt or none of those they go hand in hand and you know it
chortle
who the f is Blair Mcdougall ? You've made that up like Hamish Mcporridge,
Er, no, he hasn't- Mr McDougall is the well-known front man for the No campaign, Tories, LD and Labour all united together. I think he was a Labour spad but anyway if you google you will find plenty of portraits of this gentleman. He could of course make himself even better known if he and his colleagues actually came to public meetings when invited.
Odss on winning the Premier League versus deficit.
Chelsea 7/4 (0) Arsenal 6/1 (2) Man City 6/5 (3) Liverpool 10/1 (7) Tottenham 200/1 (10)
Everyone has a game in hand on Chelsea. But what strikes me is how a 3 point deficit sees Spurs considered 20 times less likely to win the League than Liverpool. Are they really such no hopers?
Dunno but I took a couple of quid on Betfair on Arsenal as they were getting thrashed at Anfield. Markets always seem to overreact like that.
Arsenal will find a way to win it. City and Chelsea are better sides when at their best, but they seem to struggle sometimes to put poorer opposition away. Arsenal are pretty ruthless on that front. Lots of last minute goals. Anyone who has seen a bit of Spurs this season might hesitate to say they'll even finish in the top 6 - that will depend on Man Utd sustaining their current crappiness. Spurs getting close to wining the PL is totally and utterly out of the question.
They can't be that bad with 47 points from 25 games. Do you put it all down to luck? Arsenal don't win trophies anymore. It's all about getting into the top 4 and continually qualifying for the Champions League. Silverware isn't a necessary part of the business model.
No chance Arsenal will win it, the annual bottle fest has begun, third is the best they can hope for. City will win itt with a game to spare
@blairmcdougall@meljomur we either share currency and share debt or none of those they go hand in hand and you know it
chortle
who the f is Blair Mcdougall ? You've made that up like Hamish Mcporridge,
Er, no, he hasn't- Mr McDougall is the well-known front man for the No campaign, Tories, LD and Labour all united together. I think he was a Labour spad but anyway if you google you will find plenty of portraits of this gentleman. He could of course make himself even better known if he and his colleagues actually came to public meetings when invited.
Carnyx I remember when Scots understood a leg pull.
I can understand why the unionists are ruling out a currency union but could they legally do that?
They cant legally bind the next Parliament but given they are likely, between them, to control the next Parliament they can say what they will do. You cant force a country (either rUK or Scotland) into a currency union against its will. You can try to persuade them its in their interests but when they have contracted out the decision to people who have a vested interest in opposing independence they may not get the right answer.
I'm not referring to binding the next parliament. The truth is we already have a currency union. The argument used by the Nats is 'it's our currency aswell.' We see it as them leaving the UK. They see it as suing for divorce. If your wife chooses to divorce you I don't believe you get to keep the joint bank account because it was her decision to initiate the separation. Are we to be considered the successor state.
The other interesting, laughable and rather disquieting aspect about this referendum is the question. It doesn't even mention leaving the UK! Should Scotland be an independent country? It could be interpreted as an appeal to a state of mind rather than a practical set of circumstances.
It's made out to be a big deal but I'm not so sure taking the currency union ball home is going to seal the deal for the unionists. Particularly if Osborne is seen to be the one to do it. I bet some people will be tempted to vote 'yes' just to see the snide grin wiped off his face.
2% of the scottish public rated it as the important consideration while it was 8th in the list of issues for indendence. Having the toxic Osbrowne fronting the posturing will be making SLAB shiver in fear. There's already a breakaway scottish labour No group that won't go near the tories and this will just pile on the pressure.
I'm not sure "unionism" isn't a bit of a myth. The sane Englishman in the street thinks it makes no odds whatever to him what happens to Scotland, and a hell of a lot of difference to Scotland, and vaguely hopes the outcome is whatever's best for Scotland. Refusing a currency union needn't be evidence of a cunning plan rather than a disinclination to get involved in an arrangement which will cost rUK a great deal of time and effort and yield no benefit whatsoever. If Eck's vision thing doesn't extend to having his own currency when even Iceland (pop. 340,000 - half of Glasgow) cam manage it what is his problem?
Mr A. Darling used to say that a currency union was the most sensible thing - but that was just before he got his current job as convener of the No campaign. And there ARE benefits to EWNI in the currency union - balance of payments, important trade partner, etc. The question to my mind is, rather, why London is so terrified of being under the same fiscal controls as Scotland as proposed by Mr Carney.
It's a solution of sorts but my bet is that it would be a humiliating solution for Salmond.
I agree it doesnt seem the best solution. A "scottish pound" pegged at parity to sterling would seem to be a better approach if a currency union is ruled out. I mean they already have separate notes so who would even notice?
Why pegged to Sterling, though? If I were a Scot I'd be voting for independence, not some pseudo independence where London's mismanagement of its economy affected the value of my currency.
Tears of laughter, unspoofable, Cammie, Osbrowne and other such like incantations necessary for a Scots Independence related post.
@blairmcdougall@meljomur we either share currency and share debt or none of those they go hand in hand and you know it
chortle
who the f is Blair Mcdougall ? You've made that up like Hamish Mcporridge,
Er, no, he hasn't- Mr McDougall is the well-known front man for the No campaign, Tories, LD and Labour all united together. I think he was a Labour spad but anyway if you google you will find plenty of portraits of this gentleman. He could of course make himself even better known if he and his colleagues actually came to public meetings when invited.
Carnyx I remember when Scots understood a leg pull.
What makes you think Carnyx is Scottish? She's a devotee of the mad Somerset cleric.
The last few days really show the ludicrous extent the Establishment pampers the South East, at the expense of everyone else. Apparently "money is no object" as soon as they have to face a bit of hardship and their luxurious middle-class lifestyles are slightly interrupted for a few days, but any other region faces devastating hardship and they're told to suck it up because the main priority is bringing down the deficit to satisfy "the markets".
No wonder the Scots are thinking about going independent. Hell, sometimes I find myself hoping wistfully about northern England breaking away, so that we're not trampled over by the will of middle-class darlings from the Home Counties.
London should declare independence. We're not appreciated by those that we subsidise and we could use our resources far more effectively to address the very real needs that London has.
You can keep the pound. I expect a separate London currency could just about survive.
Be a bit more difficult when you did not have the rest of the country to pay for your bloated infrastructure. London £2700 a year per head on public spending on infrastructure, North East England £5 per head. Tell me who is subsidised.
It's made out to be a big deal but I'm not so sure taking the currency union ball home is going to seal the deal for the unionists. Particularly if Osborne is seen to be the one to do it. I bet some people will be tempted to vote 'yes' just to see the snide grin wiped off his face.
2% of the scottish public rated it as the important consideration while it was 8th in the list of issues for indendence. Having the toxic Osbrowne fronting the posturing will be making SLAB shiver in fear. There's already a breakaway scottish labour No group that won't go near the tories and this will just pile on the pressure.
I'm not sure "unionism" isn't a bit of a myth. The sane Englishman in the street thinks it makes no odds whatever to him what happens to Scotland, and a hell of a lot of difference to Scotland, and vaguely hopes the outcome is whatever's best for Scotland. Refusing a currency union needn't be evidence of a cunning plan rather than a disinclination to get involved in an arrangement which will cost rUK a great deal of time and effort and yield no benefit whatsoever. If Eck's vision thing doesn't extend to having his own currency when even Iceland (pop. 340,000 - half of Glasgow) cam manage it what is his problem?
Mr A. Darling used to say that a currency union was the most sensible thing - but that was just before he got his current job as convener of the No campaign. And there ARE benefits to EWNI in the currency union - balance of payments, important trade partner, etc. The question to my mind is, rather, why London is so terrified of being under the same fiscal controls as Scotland as proposed by Mr Carney.
perhaps you should also look at that the other way why do nats want Currency Union when it involves the cession of key economic decisions. If they want independence then they should have an independent currency. Why won't they let go of the apron strings ?
It's a solution of sorts but my bet is that it would be a humiliating solution for Salmond.
I agree it doesnt seem the best solution. A "scottish pound" pegged at parity to sterling would seem to be a better approach if a currency union is ruled out. I mean they already have separate notes so who would even notice?
Why pegged to Sterling, though? If I were a Scot I'd be voting for independence, not some pseudo independence where London's mismanagement of its economy affected the value of my currency.
Tears of laughter, unspoofable, Cammie, Osbrowne and other such like incantations necessary for a Scots Independence related post.
Spot on Mr L. Independence means your own currency. The ability to set your own interest rates, float the currency on markets according to your own needs, issue your own govt debt without permission. Salmond is simply being dishonest.
@BBCScotlandNews Danny Alexander has just been on the radio denying that Osborne has said there will be no currency union.
The government's PR operation is utterly laughable. Today's shambolic messaging is a classic of the genre.
The BBC is fairly clear that tomorrow, and in ensuing days, there will be a concerted attack by all the Unionist parties, stating that a shared £ is not on the cards.
This makes sense as it is in the interests of all of them (for different reasons) to secure a No vote.
What will Salmond do then? Say they are lying?
BBC the propaganda organ of Westminster. Float that Westminster will be tough and say NO , reality they will all carp it and use weasely words , given we all know they will be desperate to have a currency union once it is YES. Unionists are in a total panic.
QUOTE "…Like other struggling competitors before him, Farage is quick to allege the use of intimidation: “You’re the little old dear at number 33. The postman delivers the ballot paper. Two minutes later, there’s a knock on the door. It’s the Labour canvasser. ‘Do you want some help with that? Can I take that from you?’ They’ve even got a barcoding system.”
I have been there for three weeks.
- There is no barcode system.
- All the postal votes landed at once. That's 19,000 in total. The most people we have had in one day is just over 150 people.
- There are more people Labour hasn't spoken to than have spoken to.
- The only reported incidents by residents have been between the BNP and UKIP. Outside the Mountain Ash pub and then in Sale on a BNP mass canvass. Given the BNP leaflets are predominenetly anti-UKIP I'd guess there has been tension between the two.
- Given that the last poll I saw UKIP were disliked by 57% of voters it is no surprise that signs saying NO BNP or UKIP on this doorstep have appeared and UKIP's unpopularity is not due to 'lack of awareness' but genuine dislike. A reaction to their popularity. It's hardly surprising that Labour canvassers are finding a strong anti-UKIP vote.
- Canvassing Sale Road. There were a lot of UKIP garden posters up (50:50) from people who had not canvassed UKIP. It transpired that most people were not interested in politics and just said alright yes in an 'I'm not bothered' manner. One was unaware he had one in his garden.
-There has been serious questions of the UKIP candidate's claims in newspaper articles. Wythenshawe man living in leafy Cheshire. Self made but who's company did not survive but did take £100,000 of EU cash. Farage has admitted UKIP have a candidate problems as a Party.
It all takes it's toll and if UKIP do lose, then it is simply this; people themselves chose not to vote for them.
Ah a Labour MP. So it must be the truth then........
@BBCScotlandNews Danny Alexander has just been on the radio denying that Osborne has said there will be no currency union.
The government's PR operation is utterly laughable. Today's shambolic messaging is a classic of the genre.
The BBC is fairly clear that tomorrow, and in ensuing days, there will be a concerted attack by all the Unionist parties, stating that a shared £ is not on the cards.
This makes sense as it is in the interests of all of them (for different reasons) to secure a No vote.
What will Salmond do then? Say they are lying?
Use sterling anyway? Montenegro has been using the Euro for years, despite being 'banned' from doing so.
There are serious problems with using a foreign currency with no fixed arrangements for mutual fiscal oversight. Montenegro is unable to print euros, has no lender of last resort, no say over interest rates and forex rates, and is now anyway knuckling under and agreeing to eurozone rules:
@blairmcdougall@meljomur we either share currency and share debt or none of those they go hand in hand and you know it
chortle
who the f is Blair Mcdougall ? You've made that up like Hamish Mcporridge,
Er, no, he hasn't- Mr McDougall is the well-known front man for the No campaign, Tories, LD and Labour all united together. I think he was a Labour spad but anyway if you google you will find plenty of portraits of this gentleman. He could of course make himself even better known if he and his colleagues actually came to public meetings when invited.
Carnyx I remember when Scots understood a leg pull.
What makes you think Carnyx is Scottish? She's a devotee of the mad Somerset cleric.
I quite happily converse with the PB Nats as you know MdC, I even miss the madness called James Kelly. It always reminds me of that cut off your nose to spite your face attitude that celts have and southern softies don't. Some of the UKs best moments have come from that mildly insane strain.
@BBCScotlandNews Danny Alexander has just been on the radio denying that Osborne has said there will be no currency union.
The government's PR operation is utterly laughable. Today's shambolic messaging is a classic of the genre.
The BBC is fairly clear that tomorrow, and in ensuing days, there will be a concerted attack by all the Unionist parties, stating that a shared £ is not on the cards.
This makes sense as it is in the interests of all of them (for different reasons) to secure a No vote.
What will Salmond do then? Say they are lying?
BBC the propaganda organ of Westminster. Float that Westminster will be tough and say NO , reality they will all carp it and use weasely words , given we all know they will be desperate to have a currency union once it is YES. Unionists are in a total panic.
I remember some years ago Osborne musing about playing the Scotland card. I think he's just played it. Devastatingly.
I see Ladbrokes have cut the odds on a currency union to 1/3. Shortened but they obviously know Osborne et all do not have the gonads to make a stand. Will be a laugh to hear squeaky backtracking tomorrow, what weasely words will he use to get round being feart to say NO.
Tears of laughter, unspoofable, Cammie, Osbrowne and other such like incantations necessary for a Scots Independence related post.
Total ignorance of Scottish public opinion by PB tories is usually the hallmark.
Surely, Mr. Pork, you are not suggesting I am a Tory supporter. If so I suggest you look at my record of posts on this site as regards Cameron. Or could it be that you regard anyone who questions your views as a PB Tory?
Tears of laughter, unspoofable, Cammie, Osbrowne, etc., oh and I forgot last time, Chorttles
P.S. What do you think is wrong with my suggestion that an independent country should have its own currency?
@blairmcdougall@meljomur we either share currency and share debt or none of those they go hand in hand and you know it
chortle
who the f is Blair Mcdougall ? You've made that up like Hamish Mcporridge,
Er, no, he hasn't- Mr McDougall is the well-known front man for the No campaign, Tories, LD and Labour all united together. I think he was a Labour spad but anyway if you google you will find plenty of portraits of this gentleman. He could of course make himself even better known if he and his colleagues actually came to public meetings when invited.
Carnyx I remember when Scots understood a leg pull.
What makes you think Carnyx is Scottish? She's a devotee of the mad Somerset cleric.
I quite happily converse with the PB Nats as you know MdC, I even miss the madness called James Kelly. It always reminds me of that cut off your nose to spite your face attitude that celts have and southern softies don't. Some of the UKs best moments have come from that mildly insane strain.
James Kelly's great merit was that he was the only genuine left winger on PB.
That explains why he wanted nothing to do with the Labour party.
Still you are right about the self-destructive genes that came with his nationality.
Do you seriously think it's a good idea for the No campaign to force the scottish public to choose between Osborne and Salmond to see which one they think is being dishonest?
Do you seriously think it's a good idea for the No campaign to force the scottish public to choose between Osborne and Salmond to see which one they think is being dishonest?
Good luck with that.
If that were the choice, but it isn't. The Scots are choosing which country they want to live in for the next couple of centuries not which transient twat they like least.
@blairmcdougall@meljomur we either share currency and share debt or none of those they go hand in hand and you know it
chortle
who the f is Blair Mcdougall ? You've made that up like Hamish Mcporridge,
Er, no, he hasn't- Mr McDougall is the well-known front man for the No campaign, Tories, LD and Labour all united together. I think he was a Labour spad but anyway if you google you will find plenty of portraits of this gentleman. He could of course make himself even better known if he and his colleagues actually came to public meetings when invited.
Carnyx I remember when Scots understood a leg pull.
What makes you think Carnyx is Scottish? She's a devotee of the mad Somerset cleric.
I quite happily converse with the PB Nats as you know MdC, I even miss the madness called James Kelly. It always reminds me of that cut off your nose to spite your face attitude that celts have and southern softies don't. Some of the UKs best moments have come from that mildly insane strain.
Kelly had a sweetness and sincerity quite lacking from the rancid Nat remnants on PB.
Do you seriously think it's a good idea for the No campaign to force the scottish public to choose between Osborne and Salmond to see which one they think is being dishonest?
Good luck with that.
And there you have it in a nutshell: Scottishness trumps the truth.
@blairmcdougall@meljomur we either share currency and share debt or none of those they go hand in hand and you know it
chortle
who the f is Blair Mcdougall ? You've made that up like Hamish Mcporridge,
Er, no, he hasn't- Mr McDougall is the well-known front man for the No campaign, Tories, LD and Labour all united together. I think he was a Labour spad but anyway if you google you will find plenty of portraits of this gentleman. He could of course make himself even better known if he and his colleagues actually came to public meetings when invited.
Carnyx I remember when Scots understood a leg pull.
What makes you think Carnyx is Scottish? She's a devotee of the mad Somerset cleric.
I quite happily converse with the PB Nats as you know MdC, I even miss the madness called James Kelly. It always reminds me of that cut off your nose to spite your face attitude that celts have and southern softies don't. Some of the UKs best moments have come from that mildly insane strain.
Kelly had a sweetness and sincerity quite lacking from the rancid Nat remnants on PB.
If mental gymnastics were an Olympic Sport James would be a cert for Scotland's first gold medal.
I see Ladbrokes have cut the odds on a currency union to 1/3. Shortened but they obviously know Osborne et all do not have the gonads to make a stand. Will be a laugh to hear squeaky backtracking tomorrow, what weasely words will he use to get round being feart to say NO.
The bet as shown on wings over scotland is not about currency union it is whether you will be using sterling as your currency. Currency union would fulfil the criteria as would using the pound under a dollarisation style stopgap measure
Do you seriously think it's a good idea for the No campaign to force the scottish public to choose between Osborne and Salmond to see which one they think is being dishonest?
Good luck with that.
And there you have it in a nutshell: Scottishness trumps the truth.
But it's not scottishmess, the Nats aren't Scotland.
Do you seriously think it's a good idea for the No campaign to force the scottish public to choose between Osborne and Salmond to see which one they think is being dishonest?
The Scots are choosing which country they want to live in for the next couple of centuries not which transient twat they like least.
I can well understand why a No supporter would like to believe that, what with a copious overabundance of twats on the No side to choose from, but I'm afraid that's just not how it works. Trust is at the heart of this just as much as it is for any other referendum or a GE. The toxic Clegg was used mercilessly by the tories and No to AV so we'll have none of this absurd nonsense about trust not mattering now. All the more unfortunate now that Clegg is on your side for No, but that's just one of life's vastly amusing ironies, isn't it?
@blairmcdougall@meljomur we either share currency and share debt or none of those they go hand in hand and you know it
chortle
who the f is Blair Mcdougall ? You've made that up like Hamish Mcporridge,
Er, no, he hasn't- Mr McDougall is the well-known front man for the No campaign, Tories, LD and Labour all united together. I think he was a Labour spad but anyway if you google you will find plenty of portraits of this gentleman. He could of course make himself even better known if he and his colleagues actually came to public meetings when invited.
Carnyx I remember when Scots understood a leg pull.
Most of them still do....its the Cybernats who have had the humourectomy.....
Oh dear I also see that bot Barclays and RBS have said they will have no issues with a YES vote. Another canard bites the dust.
Well as I understand it the head of RBS said they "could adapt" (whatever that actually means). However given the UK taxpayer is the effectively controlling factor as Vince Cable speculated
Mr Cable previously told a committee of MPs that, under independence RBS - bailed out by UK taxpayers to the tune of £46bn in 2008 - would want to be based where it was "protected against the risk of collapse".
Do you seriously think it's a good idea for the No campaign to force the scottish public to choose between Osborne and Salmond to see which one they think is being dishonest?
Good luck with that.
And there you have it in a nutshell: Scottishness trumps the truth.
If the Nats are already playing 'more Scottish than thou' they are clearly on the run.....
Because most of Scotland's trade will be with the sterling zone. Over time I wouldnt be surprised to see Scotland follow Ireland in decoupling from sterling and hitching up to the DM / euro but that's probably for the future.
Do you seriously think it's a good idea for the No campaign to force the scottish public to choose between Osborne and Salmond to see which one they think is being dishonest?
Do you seriously think it's a good idea for the No campaign to force the scottish public to choose between Osborne and Salmond to see which one they think is being dishonest?
Good luck with that.
And there you have it in a nutshell: Scottishness trumps the truth.
You certainly have the "nut" right on your part. A feeble straw man even by PB's standards.
Scottish public opinion matters and anyone who thinks otherwise has either their head up their own arse or Osbornes in an attempt to deny the obvious.
Because most of Scotland's trade will be with the sterling zone. Over time I wouldnt be surprised to see Scotland follow Ireland in decoupling from sterling and hitching up to the DM / euro but that's probably for the future.
Ireland's biggest trading partner is the UK, but you don't use Sterling. There's no reason for Indyscot to use Sterling bar Salmond's fear of scaring the voters.
Mr Jones partner is Kimberley Whitehead. He was previously married to Paula née Courtney and has one son. He also has a daughter with Miss Whitehead.[7]
He is a lifelong supporter of Blackburn Rovers....
Auntie-HortenceOGH will no doubt enter into some chrisgoo-like debates very soon....
And the major reason for ruling out a currency union right now would appear to be to try to scare the voters.
Or the desire to provide clarity?
Both the Nats & Scottish voters keep saying they 'want greater clarity'.
Now they've got it.
And once again, a Salmond promise, not within his gift, proves worthless.
Meanwhile the 'we won't pay our share of the debt' is raising an even bigger laugh ('but you'll still go on administering our pensions & we can borrow on the bond market, can't we?') than the EU 'legal advice'......
And the major reason for ruling out a currency union right now would appear to be to try to scare the voters.
What rational reason is there for a joint currency ? Salmond has moved from rubbishing Sterling to suddenly wanting it post Euro crisis because that was even scarier, Salmond can either issue his own currency or join the Euro since you tell me that's where Scotland is headed.
In the meantime what's the benefit for EWNI in a union ? We're top scapegoat every time there's an economic problem in Scotland, there's no thanks for when things go well, there's the need to manage somebody else's problem if oil goes silly and we'll always end up suboptimising our own best interests because we've got a back seat driver.
For scotland it's even worse, they have to ask permission to issue their own debt, they can't set interest rates for themselves, they're exposed to every idiot UK CoE ( and we've had crap ones continuously since 1997 ) and if oil goes silly they have their hands tied behind their backs.
So if the consequences scare Scots it sodding well should,
And the major reason for ruling out a currency union right now would appear to be to try to scare the voters.
What rational reason is there for a joint currency ? Salmond has moved from rubbishing Sterling to suddenly wanting it post Euro crisis because that was even scarier, Salmond can either issue his own currency or join the Euro since you tell me that's where Scotland is headed.
In the meantime what's the benefit for EWNI in a union ? We're top scapegoat every time there's an economic problem in Scotland, there's no thanks for when things go well, there's the need to manage somebody else's problem if oil goes silly and we'll always end up suboptimising our own best interests because we've got a back seat driver.
For scotland it's even worse, they have to ask permission to issue their own debt, they can't set interest rates for themselves, they're exposed to every idiot UK CoE ( and we've had crap ones continuously from 1997 to 2010) and if oil goes silly they have their hands tied behind their backs.
So if the consequences scare Scots it sodding well should,
Comments
Another Blackburn Rovers supporter !! ....
Have fun with OGH - A Burnley fan .... I'm sure he'll be even handed with you.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/HYPOCRITE;+Car+clampdown+Prescott+chauffeured+270yds+at+Labour...-a060411671
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/1999/oct/01/labourconference.labour
"Scottish independence: UK parties will block money union"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26163637
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26156533#?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
The road he lived down is surely a joke????!!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26161382#TWEET1042458
This makes sense as it is in the interests of all of them (for different reasons) to secure a No vote.
What will Salmond do then? Say they are lying?
*tears of laughter etc.*
Mick it's always interesting to have a West Country take on things but have you any views from Scotland ?
The Tories don't want to break up Britain, Labour are desperate to keep Scotland and SLAB MPs. They will rule out currency union.
Ball in Eck's court.
Sorry to have to break it to you.
But PB tories and kippers know best when it comes to scottish public opinion. Don't you?
2. What the F is plan B anyway? Joining the euro is unfeasible for now. Using sterling outside a union is worse than being inside the union - they will e subject to rUK interest rates with no political or fiscal control at all, no lender of last resort &c.
3. That leaves an independent Scottish currency, as far as I can see. But then they would face penal interest rates as they fought to achieve credibility.
@blairmcdougall @meljomur we either share currency and share debt or none of those they go hand in hand and you know it
http://www.libdemvoice.org/aldcs-byelection-report-6-february-2014-38205.html
"four principal by-elections last Thursday. The Liberal Democrats received disappointing results in the two by-elections they stood candidates in."
"... Liberal Democrat candidate John Candler came fourth with 15.2% of the vote. ..
....Sue Ross for the Liberal Democrats came fifth of eight with 6%."
"On a brighter note we congratulate Liberal Democrat Richard Shrimpton who gained a seat from the Independents on Rawcliffe Parish Council in an unopposed election."
It's made out to be a big deal but I'm not so sure taking the currency union ball home is going to seal the deal for the unionists. Particularly if Osborne is seen to be the one to do it. I bet some people will be tempted to vote 'yes' just to see the snide grin wiped off his face.
*chortle*
Perhaps, on reflection, that is the problem. Someone has spoken truth unto power and the people who want the power don't like the truth.
*tears of laughter* unspoofable, etc.*
I don't know what the phrases mean but they seem obligatory in any post discussing the issue of Sottish Independence on this site.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/02/george-osborne-gives-alex-salmond-a-lesson-in-power-politics/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegro_and_the_euro
It's a solution of sorts but my bet is that it would be a humiliating solution for Salmond.
'A "scottish pound" pegged at parity to sterling would seem to be a better approach if a currency union is ruled out'
That seemed to work out for Ireland prior to the Punt.
All very very unplesant, not the velvet divorce the Nats are trying to sell.
Plus Scotland would then have a bitch of a time trying to raise money on the international markets: Scotland, the new country that defaulted on its debts before it even started. Good luck with that.
who the f is Blair Mcdougall ? You've made that up like Hamish Mcporridge,
ROFL
I've already seen some bystander interviews on the scottish news positing Osborne's stance and they were not good for the No campaign. Quite the reverse.
You must be a very dainty and posh chap to be so delightfully naive.
*chortle*
Thanks for the clarification,I thought it was only called the Punt after it left the sterling peg,prior to that it was the Irish pound.
The other interesting, laughable and rather disquieting aspect about this referendum is the question. It doesn't even mention leaving the UK! Should Scotland be an independent country? It could be interpreted as an appeal to a state of mind rather than a practical set of circumstances.
Tears of laughter, unspoofable, Cammie, Osbrowne and other such like incantations necessary for a Scots Independence related post.
Spot on Mr L. Independence means your own currency. The ability to set your own interest rates, float the currency on markets according to your own needs, issue your own govt debt without permission. Salmond is simply being dishonest.
Tears of laughter, unspoofable, Cammie, Osbrowne, etc., oh and I forgot last time, Chorttles
P.S. What do you think is wrong with my suggestion that an independent country should have its own currency?
That explains why he wanted nothing to do with the Labour party.
Still you are right about the self-destructive genes that came with his nationality.
Another poster I would welcome back.
Good luck with that.
Mr Cable previously told a committee of MPs that, under independence RBS - bailed out by UK taxpayers to the tune of £46bn in 2008 - would want to be based where it was "protected against the risk of collapse".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26152171
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/12/alex-salmond-pound-george-osborne-scottish-currency
This has familiar discussion but an unusual conclusion:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/pollingobservatory/100259331/conservative-pundits-hope-2015-will-be-like-1992-but-the-polls-suggests-that-it-could-be-more-like-1997/
Automatic membership of NATO
No free tuition for EWNI students
Guaranteed Sterling zone
How's that 'trust' thing working out for you?
A feeble straw man even by PB's standards.
Scottish public opinion matters and anyone who thinks otherwise has either their head up their own arse or Osbornes in an attempt to deny the obvious.
And the major reason for ruling out a currency union right now would appear to be to try to scare the voters.
Both the Nats & Scottish voters keep saying they 'want greater clarity'.
Now they've got it.
And once again, a Salmond promise, not within his gift, proves worthless.
Meanwhile the 'we won't pay our share of the debt' is raising an even bigger laugh ('but you'll still go on administering our pensions & we can borrow on the bond market, can't we?') than the EU 'legal advice'......
In the meantime what's the benefit for EWNI in a union ? We're top scapegoat every time there's an economic problem in Scotland, there's no thanks for when things go well, there's the need to manage somebody else's problem if oil goes silly and we'll always end up suboptimising our own best interests because we've got a back seat driver.
For scotland it's even worse, they have to ask permission to issue their own debt, they can't set interest rates for themselves, they're exposed to every idiot UK CoE ( and we've had crap ones continuously since 1997 ) and if oil goes silly they have their hands tied behind their backs.
So if the consequences scare Scots it sodding well should,