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  • GildasGildas Posts: 92
    Danny565 said:

    @Danny

    The middle class in London are a lefty cohort. In fact I think London is the only region where ABs are solidly red. You do need us. We are your friends!

    I should clarify that by south east, I'm not including London (or any of the other few major cities in the south). I'm mainly talking about people from leafy home counties, who often are very selfish and spiteful, insisting on the poor and other regions getting clobbered, but then expecting to be first in the queue for government handouts as soon as they get into trouble.
    People from the Home Counties are "often very selfish and spiteful"??? If you spouted such bigoted Lefty nonsense about, say, people from Liverpool on Twitter you'd have death threats for a decade.

  • Best of luck, Mr. Crosby, and other pbers forecast for 100mph+ winds.

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928

    I think too many people are making the mistake of taking what the Yes side say about process and policies in the event of a Yes too seriously. The bottom line is that unless Scotland declares independence unilaterally - which would be lunacy - it won't happen until there is an agreement. And there can only be an agreement if both sides agree. You can't put a time limit on that and you can't dictate the terms.

    I would be genuinely shocked if the SNP did not know this. Of course they do. However, it obviously does not suit their purposes to say so. The only thing they are interested in right now is getting that Yes. Should they be successful, their positions on absolutely everything to do with separation will change the following day.

    That's a fair point, but, even putting aside that particular date, the question of whether serious negotiations could even start in the last few months of this parliament is an interesting one. More widely, in respect of other issues like the currency, I think the point is more that the SNP seem to have left plenty of exposed flank which the other side can attack.

    The timescales also potentially interact with the EU renegotiation and referendum, if we have a Conservative government as well as a Scottish Yes vote. The idea of simultaneously negotiating both would be a mandarin's nightmare, I imagine. Still, I guess the double is a very remote possibility.

    It's going to be hellishly complicated, that's for sure. Take oil. Everyone talks blithely about the oil money, but it does not come from a single source and a lot of it is tied up in corporation tax. That means companies not based in Scotland will have to move there in order to pay it into Scottish coffers. How will that be done?
    I presume the oil companies have a deal with the UK government to extract oil from UK waters. Would (could?) those contracts be ripped up on independence? I've always thought a key plank of the independence argument was that a Scottish government would control the industry much more tightly and in the national interest a la Norway, rather than squander it like like Thatcher et al.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    RodCrosby said:

    I think one of my gutters is just about to be torn away...

    Then stop rolling in it, Sir Roderick.

    Incidentally have we heard back from AnneJGP [?], who last posted shortly before being evacuated from her home on the Dawlish seafront?

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited February 2014

    It's going to be hellishly complicated, that's for sure. Take oil. Everyone talks blithely about the oil money, but it does not come from a single source and a lot of it is tied up in corporation tax. That means companies not based in Scotland will have to move there in order to pay it into Scottish coffers. How will that be done?

    Yes, and to add to the complication there's the whole question of historic tax allowances which would somehow have to be carried forward or transferred or extinguished. I can't imagine that would be at all simple, with potentially some big losers amongst the oil companies.

    The one thing which would work to Scotland's advantage is that at least they have largely separate administrative, legal, judicial, education and health systems. But even allowing for all that, undoing hundreds of years of union wouldn't be simple.
  • Interesting comment from Professor Iain McLean, of Nuffield College, Oxford, which echoes something which I've been wondering about:

    I think the Scottish Government’s timetable is not realistic. One sufficient reason that it’s between Scotland and rUK.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/feb/12/mps-question-welfare-and-housing-ministers-over-bedroom-tax-politics-live-blog

    I think too many people are making the mistake of taking what the Yes side say about everything to do with separation will change the following day.

    Based on performance to date I would be astounded if the SNP had thought that far ahead. They've flown so much by the seat of their pants all you can see is bare arse.

    I think it's more a case of constantly trying to second-guess what stands the best chance of getting the biggest number of people to say Yes.

    Getting them to say yes is one thing managing expectations afterwards is another. The SNP have overpromised on Indy and can only underdeliver. My money's on they'll blame the english.

    Once the initial euphoria has died down, there may well be a lot of disappointment at a lot of things that happen. But Scotland will still be independent and that is all that really matters.

    It's all that matters to a Nat, but then afterwards the chickens come home to roost and everyone one else picks up the pieces.

    My guess is that people will make the best of it. They will all understand there is no going back. It may mean that the SNP very rapidly fades from view as a serious force in Scotland, but that is likely whatever happens - once independence is achieved what will it have left to do and what will keep its various parts together?

  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Easing off slightly in the past 5 minutes. But worse to come?

    Plastic gutter now flapping in the wind...
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    I think too many people are making the mistake of taking what the Yes side say about process and policies in the event of a Yes too seriously. The bottom line is that unless Scotland declares independence unilaterally - which would be lunacy - it won't happen until there is an agreement. And there can only be an agreement if both sides agree. You can't put a time limit on that and you can't dictate the terms.

    I would be genuinely shocked if the SNP did not know this. Of course they do. However, it obviously does not suit their purposes to say so. The only thing they are interested in right now is getting that Yes. Should they be successful, their positions on absolutely everything to do with separation will change the following day.

    That's a fair point, but, even putting aside that particular date, the question of whether serious negotiations could even start in the last few months of this parliament is an interesting one. More widely, in respect of other issues like the currency, I think the point is more that the SNP seem to have left plenty of exposed flank which the other side can attack.

    The timescales also potentially interact with the EU renegotiation and referendum, if we have a Conservative government as well as a Scottish Yes vote. The idea of simultaneously negotiating both would be a mandarin's nightmare, I imagine. Still, I guess the double is a very remote possibility.

    It's going to be hellishly complicated, that's for sure. Take oil. Everyone talks blithely about the oil money, but it does not come from a single source and a lot of it is tied up in corporation tax. That means companies not based in Scotland will have to move there in order to pay it into Scottish coffers. How will that be done?
    Excellent, a theoretical tax question... *that's* what this afternoon's threads have been missing.

    I may be missing the point of the question but this seems pretty straightforward: on the basic territorial principle of taxing an activity where the work takes place, an English company exploiting Scottish oil resources would be treated as having a Scottish branch, with an appropriate apportionment of profits between English head office and Scottish branch. Each would be subject to the relevant country's corporation tax. In practice, you'd expect most of the profits from such geographically-tied work to end up subject to Scottish tax, even without the special rules that apply to tax resource extraction activity.

    I would guess that Scotland would opportunistically offer a tax holiday for the portion of profits attributable to head office activities in order to tempt English companies to relocate the whole operation to Scotland.
  • RodCrosby said:

    Cameron convenes government emergency committee for 5.30pm...

    Dave chairs COBRA! Grrrr............. he's so manly when he wants to be.

    Full marks to Crosby on repackaging the effete public schoolboy image. Expect a Tory lead amongst women voters anytime soon.

    Cameron can be a cock, but not half as big a cock as this fella:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-544151/Panic-stations-Gordon-Brown-convened-crisis-committee-Cobra-fortnight-PM.html
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    RodCrosby said:

    Cameron convenes government emergency committee for 5.30pm...

    Dave chairs COBRA! Grrrr............. he's so manly when he wants to be.

    Full marks to Crosby on repackaging the effete public schoolboy image. Expect a Tory lead amongst women voters anytime soon.

    Cameron can be a cock, but not half as big a cock as this fella:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-544151/Panic-stations-Gordon-Brown-convened-crisis-committee-Cobra-fortnight-PM.html
    ...are you implying that Tory women voters prefer a smaller cock...?
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited February 2014

    antifrank said:

    Socrates said:

    antifrank said:

    Danny565 said:

    The last few days really show the ludicrous extent the Establishment pampers the South East, at the expense of everyone else. Apparently "money is no object" as soon as they have to face a bit of hardship and their luxurious middle-class lifestyles are slightly interrupted for a few days, but any other region faces devastating hardship and they're told to suck it up because the main priority is bringing down the deficit to satisfy "the markets".

    No wonder the Scots are thinking about going independent. Hell, sometimes I find myself hoping wistfully about northern England breaking away, so that we're not trampled over by the will of middle-class darlings from the Home Counties.

    London should declare independence. We're not appreciated by those that we subsidise and we could use our resources far more effectively to address the very real needs that London has.

    You can keep the pound. I expect a separate London currency could just about survive.
    I'm not sure where London would be without the skilled commuters from the rest of South East England. Bear in mind the place elected a hard left socialist as the last mayor, so you're living in fantasy land if you think you'd have good governance as an independent state. And where would London be without the neighbouring police forces that had to be called in when London's underclass revolted?
    Somewhere by the shores of lake Balaton a lawyer is laughing and sipping a glass of Tokaj before he cast his next troll bait.
    Ah yes that's the same London who has the highest PESA expenditure per capita across England and 27% higher than the rest of the South East (which just happens to be the lowest).

    That's the same London that contributes 22% of the country's GDP on 13% of the population:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_London
    Well given public expenditure is part of what makes up GDP that's hardly surprising then is it?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product

    Thats why GDP is such a poor measure of prosperity because it can be influenced by profligate government.
    Government spending (as in the 'Government & Other' Services sub-sector e.g. health, education etc.) of the ONS 'Services' sector only contributed 0.1% to GDP growth in 2013 out of total growth for all sectors of 1.9%.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Important news for people in west Wales and NW England:

    David Cameron will be holding a Cobra meeting at 5:30pm.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    People from the Home Counties are "often very selfish and spiteful"???

    There is a 'sink you rich southern b8st8rds, sink' element amongst the left and that is pretty shocking.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    RodCrosby said:

    Cameron convenes government emergency committee for 5.30pm...

    Dave chairs COBRA! Grrrr............. he's so manly when he wants to be.

    Full marks to Crosby on repackaging the effete public schoolboy image. Expect a Tory lead amongst women voters anytime soon.

    Cameron can be a cock, but not half as big a cock as this fella:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-544151/Panic-stations-Gordon-Brown-convened-crisis-committee-Cobra-fortnight-PM.html
    Yet the hopeless Brown wasn't the one who came off so badly during floods. The former PR man Cammie is just dire at this sort of thing nor is it anything new. He has at least some comfort in knowing that Farage is doing little better, particularly after a kipper councillor blamed the floods on gays.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Amazon pays little tax on its UK operation, because of a corporate structure that has the profit appear in low tax Luxembourg.

    Why cannot oil companies do the same?

    If Scotland wants the tax, then surely they need to apply an extraction tax rather than a corporation tax?
    Polruan said:


    That's a fair point, but, even putting aside that particular date, the question of whether serious negotiations could even start in the last few months of this parliament is an interesting one. More widely, in respect of other issues like the currency, I think the point is more that the SNP seem to have left plenty of exposed flank which the other side can attack.

    The timescales also potentially interact with the EU renegotiation and referendum, if we have a Conservative government as well as a Scottish Yes vote. The idea of simultaneously negotiating both would be a mandarin's nightmare, I imagine. Still, I guess the double is a very remote possibility.

    It's going to be hellishly complicated, that's for sure. Take oil. Everyone talks blithely about the oil money, but it does not come from a single source and a lot of it is tied up in corporation tax. That means companies not based in Scotland will have to move there in order to pay it into Scottish coffers. How will that be done?
    Excellent, a theoretical tax question... *that's* what this afternoon's threads have been missing.

    I may be missing the point of the question but this seems pretty straightforward: on the basic territorial principle of taxing an activity where the work takes place, an English company exploiting Scottish oil resources would be treated as having a Scottish branch, with an appropriate apportionment of profits between English head office and Scottish branch. Each would be subject to the relevant country's corporation tax. In practice, you'd expect most of the profits from such geographically-tied work to end up subject to Scottish tax, even without the special rules that apply to tax resource extraction activity.

    I would guess that Scotland would opportunistically offer a tax holiday for the portion of profits attributable to head office activities in order to tempt English companies to relocate the whole operation to Scotland.
  • AveryLP said:

    antifrank said:

    Socrates said:

    antifrank said:

    Danny565 said:

    The last few days really show the ludicrous extent the Establishment pampers the South East, at the expense of everyone else. Apparently "money is no object" as soon as they have to face a bit of hardship and their luxurious middle-class lifestyles are slightly interrupted for a few days, but any other region faces devastating hardship and they're told to suck it up because the main priority is bringing down the deficit to satisfy "the markets".

    No wonder the Scots are thinking about going independent. Hell, sometimes I find myself hoping wistfully about northern England breaking away, so that we're not trampled over by the will of middle-class darlings from the Home Counties.

    London should declare independence. We're not appreciated by those that we subsidise and we could use our resources far more effectively to address the very real needs that London has.

    You can keep the pound. I expect a separate London currency could just about survive.
    I'm not sure where London would be without the skilled commuters from the rest of South East England. Bear in mind the place elected a hard left socialist as the last mayor, so you're living in fantasy land if you think you'd have good governance as an independent state. And where would London be without the neighbouring police forces that had to be called in when London's underclass revolted?
    Somewhere by the shores of lake Balaton a lawyer is laughing and sipping a glass of Tokaj before he cast his next troll bait.
    Ah yes that's the same London who has the highest PESA expenditure per capita across England and 27% higher than the rest of the South East (which just happens to be the lowest).

    That's the same London that contributes 22% of the country's GDP on 13% of the population:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_London
    Well given public expenditure is part of what makes up GDP that's hardly surprising then is it?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product

    Thats why GDP is such a poor measure of prosperity because it can be influenced by profligate government.
    Government spending (as in the 'Government & Other' Services sub-sector e.g. health, education etc.) of the ONS 'Services' sector only contributed 0.1% to GDP growth in 2013 out of total growth for all sectors of 1.9%.
    Back in your box Mr LP nobody's criticising your precious government.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited February 2014
    Mick_Pork said:


    Not nearly as painful as watching someone pathetically pretend they didn't flounce off while blaming it on a poster who was not banned. Of which there is reams of you doing so on that thread.

    Clearly, you don't understand English. I entirely did leave because of that poster and the lack of his banning, and I have not disputed that today. What I am contesting is that I wouldn't come back until he was banned. I said at the time I might come back if he left for other reasons. Hence I have come back.
    Mick_Pork said:


    Doesn't quite square with your petulant assertion that "I never said at any point I wouldn't be back until he was banned" does it?

    Yes. It does. Are you really too stupid to understand this? Let's break this down. If person A says "I will not take the action unless condition 1 or condition 2 is fulfilled", that does not mean they will not take the action unless condition 1 is fulfilled. Only an idiot doesn't realise this.
    Mick_Pork said:

    By which you mean you want to pitifully flounce off this discussion before I show very clearly what your idea of "civil discourse" was when you flounced off the site. A wise move since you left all manner of arrogant and less than civil hostages to fortune that completely disprove your feeble attempts to justify your coming back now.

    So now your ubiquitous use of the term "flouncing" now extends to people no longer bothering to engage with you? You have a very strange view of the world.
  • Fckn hell, what are these jokers up to?

    Nicholas Watt ‏@nicholaswatt 29 mins
    Chaos in @hmtreasury. Silence on my Scottish currency union exc – vacuum for @theSNP. Over to @dannyalexander + @edballsMP @IainDale show

    National Collective ‏@WeAreNational 12 mins
    Uh oh. @dannyalexander on radio saying he doesn't know where currency union story came from, "extremely surprised" if it came from Treasury.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Interesting comment from Professor Iain McLean, of Nuffield College, Oxford, which echoes something which I've been wondering about:

    I think the Scottish Government’s timetable is not realistic. One sufficient reason that it’s between Scotland and rUK.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/feb/12/mps-question-welfare-and-housing-ministers-over-bedroom-tax-politics-live-blog

    I think too many people are making the mistake of taking what the Yes side say about everything to do with separation will change the following day.

    Based on performance to date I would be astounded if the SNP had thought that far ahead. They've flown so much by the seat of their pants all you can see is bare arse.

    I think it's more a case of constantly trying to second-guess what stands the best chance of getting the biggest number of people to say Yes.

    Getting them to say yes is one thing managing expectations afterwards is another. The SNP have overpromised on Indy and can only underdeliver. My money's on they'll blame the english.

    Once the initial euphoria has died down, there may well be.

    It's all that matters to a Nat, but then afterwards the chickens come home to roost and everyone one else picks up the pieces.

    My guess is that people will make the best of it. They will all understand there is no going back. It may mean that the SNP very rapidly fades from view as a serious force in Scotland, but that is likely whatever happens - once independence is achieved what will it have left to do and what will keep its various parts together?

    Basically nothing. I'd give it a decade and then Scotland will have a RoC government.
  • @Polruan - Excellent, a theoretical tax question... *that's* what this afternoon's threads have been missing.

    I may be missing the point of the question but this seems pretty straightforward: on the basic territorial principle of taxing an activity where the work takes place, an English company exploiting Scottish oil resources would be treated as having a Scottish branch, with an appropriate apportionment of profits between English head office and Scottish branch. Each would be subject to the relevant country's corporation tax. In practice, you'd expect most of the profits from such geographically-tied work to end up subject to Scottish tax, even without the special rules that apply to tax resource extraction activity.

    I would guess that Scotland would opportunistically offer a tax holiday for the portion of profits attributable to head office activities in order to tempt English companies to relocate the whole operation to Scotland.



    Thanks - that does seem simpler than I imagined, at least in theory.

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    GOP Circus #2 is going well.
    No-Tea-Bull ‏@banaltea 7m

    Boehner to Tea Party “I’m getting this monkey off your back and you’re not going to even clap?” http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/02/11/how-john-boehner-decided-to-give-up-on-the-debt-limit-fight/ … #tcot #UniteBlue

    Mark Murray ‏@mmurraypolitics 2h

    Meanwhile, Obama drew a line in the sand on the debt ceiling, stuck with it, and got the result he wanted http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/first-thoughts-ceasefire-washingtons-budget-wars-n28311
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928

    RodCrosby said:

    Cameron convenes government emergency committee for 5.30pm...

    Dave chairs COBRA! Grrrr............. he's so manly when he wants to be.

    Full marks to Crosby on repackaging the effete public schoolboy image. Expect a Tory lead amongst women voters anytime soon.

    Cameron can be a cock, but not half as big a cock as this fella:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-544151/Panic-stations-Gordon-Brown-convened-crisis-committee-Cobra-fortnight-PM.html
    Blair pretty much did the entire security PM thing to death particularly post 9/11. I think the public have grown sceptical of it now. But they call him the 'master', so what do I know.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited February 2014
    taffys said:

    People from the Home Counties are "often very selfish and spiteful"???

    There is a 'sink you rich southern b8st8rds, sink' element amongst the left and that is pretty shocking.

    Not "sink", but stop spitefully demanding other regions are punished when they already have less, and expecting the Establishment to give you special treatment.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "People from the Home Counties are "often very selfish and spiteful""

    Nice bit of stereotyping there.
  • I think too many people are making the mistake of taking what the Yes side say about process and policies in the event of a Yes too seriously. The bottom line is that unless Scotland declares independence unilaterally - which would be lunacy - it won't happen until there is an agreement. And there can only be an agreement if both sides agree. You can't put a time limit on that and you can't dictate the terms.

    I would be genuinely shocked if the SNP did not know this. Of course they do. However, it obviously does not suit their purposes to say so. The only thing they are interested in right now is getting that Yes. Should they be successful, their positions on absolutely everything to do with separation will change the following day.

    That's a fair point, but, even putting aside that particular date, the question of whether serious negotiations could even start in the last few months of this parliament is an interesting one. More widely, in respect of other issues like the currency, I think the point is more that the SNP seem to have left plenty of exposed flank which the other side can attack.

    The timescales also potentially interact with the EU renegotiation and referendum, if we have a Conservative government as well as a Scottish Yes vote. The idea of simultaneously negotiating both would be a mandarin's nightmare, I imagine. Still, I guess the double is a very remote possibility.

    It's going to be hellishly complicated, that's for sure. Take oil. Everyone talks blithely about the oil money, but it does not come from a single source and a lot of it is tied up in corporation tax. That means companies not based in Scotland will have to move there in order to pay it into Scottish coffers. How will that be done?
    I presume the oil companies have a deal with the UK government to extract oil from UK waters. Would (could?) those contracts be ripped up on independence? I've always thought a key plank of the independence argument was that a Scottish government would control the industry much more tightly and in the national interest a la Norway, rather than squander it like like Thatcher et al.

    A Scottish oil fund seems unlikely given that it is oil which turns Scotland into a net contributor to the UK pot. They'll need the oil money to pay current bills. It shouldn't be that way, but successive Westminster governments chose short-termism over investment when it came to the oil money. It was a real waste.

  • Liam Furby ‏@MrFurby 7 mins
    Ed Balls still will not rule out currency union with Scotland when pushed by @iaindale #callballs

    Bettertogether, as long as it's not the same hymn sheet.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited February 2014
    Socrates said:


    Clearly, you don't understand English.

    "each of us has the right to go elsewhere if we think it's not being done in an acceptable manner. I know I'm not the first to leave because of the abuse of others,"

    Your words. In English. Yet back you came. You got no apology then and you certainly won't get one now. It's good to know you finally realise that what happened is "acceptable" and your flounce was all for nothing.

    I did warn you and there is of course a great deal more. So by all means keep it up.
    Socrates said:

    So now your ubiquitous use of the term "flouncing" now extends to people no longer bothering to engage with you?

    Just the most bumptious and pompous ones who can't understand why they are so amusing.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    antifrank said:

    Socrates said:

    antifrank said:

    Danny565 said:

    The last few days really show the ludicrous extent the Establishment pampers the South East, at the expense of everyone else. Apparently "money is no object" as soon as they have to face a bit of hardship and their luxurious middle-class lifestyles are slightly interrupted for a few days, but any other region faces devastating hardship and they're told to suck it up because the main priority is bringing down the deficit to satisfy "the markets".

    No wonder the Scots are thinking about going independent. Hell, sometimes I find myself hoping wistfully about northern England breaking away, so that we're not trampled over by the will of middle-class darlings from the Home Counties.

    London should declare independence. We're not appreciated by those that we subsidise and we could use our resources far more effectively to address the very real needs that London has.

    You can keep the pound. I expect a separate London currency could just about survive.
    I'm not sure where London would be without the skilled commuters from the rest of South East England. Bear in mind the place elected a hard left socialist as the last mayor, so you're living in fantasy land if you think you'd have good governance as an independent state. And where would London be without the neighbouring police forces that had to be called in when London's underclass revolted?
    Somewhere by the shores of lake Balaton a lawyer is laughing and sipping a glass of Tokaj before he cast his next troll bait.
    Ah yes that's the same London who has the highest PESA expenditure per capita across England and 27% higher than the rest of the South East (which just happens to be the lowest).

    That's the same London that contributes 22% of the country's GDP on 13% of the population:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_London
    Well given public expenditure is part of what makes up GDP that's hardly surprising then is it?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product

    Thats why GDP is such a poor measure of prosperity because it can be influenced by profligate government.
    You're confusing demand and supply. Just because the goods and services are bought by government doesn't mean credit shouldn't go to the particular region supplying it.
  • Seriously, it can't be long before a Sky News reporter gets washed or blown into a river or the sea. What's the point?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @alexmassie: SNP policy of a sterling union was always based on political expediency more than principle. Now it is in ruins. http://t.co/Ip6o5sVlpQ
  • smithersjones2013smithersjones2013 Posts: 740
    edited February 2014
    Danny565 said:

    taffys said:

    People from the Home Counties are "often very selfish and spiteful"???

    There is a 'sink you rich southern b8st8rds, sink' element amongst the left and that is pretty shocking.

    Not "sink", but stop spitefully demanding other regions are punished when they already have less, and expecting the Establishment to give you special treatment.
    I must admit the first thing I've heard on TV from every flood affected person interviewed is 'why isn't the government depriving all those northern scroungers to sort out our floods?'. Well I assume that is what 'asking for help' must translate into in whatever dialect is spoken wherever 565 comes from.

    Do all Labour supporters suffer from this neurotic but bigoted psychosis?

  • Liam Furby ‏@MrFurby 7 mins
    Ed Balls still will not rule out currency union with Scotland when pushed by @iaindale #callballs

    Bettertogether, as long as it's not the same hymn sheet.

    Interesting switch of twitterers. Perhaps you didn't like Nicholas Watts's take on the same interview?

    "I don't see how an independent Scotland could keep the pound. Very difficult indeed @edballsmp tells @IainDale @LBC"
  • Seriously, it can't be long before a Sky News reporter gets washed or blown into a river or the sea. What's the point?

    Well, depending on the reporter...

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    the SNP has two options: denial or Plan B. Denial is the default position, the one Nicola Sturgeon has adopted on Wednesday. The problem is that even if the SNP is right – that Westminster would back down after a Yes vote – it is asking a lot for the undecided, pragmatic Scottish voter to opt for independence in the face of such uncertainty.

    The irony is that, as Mr Carney explained, monetary union would give Scots a diluted independence. This is why the most granite of hardcore Nationalists favour Scotland having its own currency – and why some of them feel that Mr Salmond lost his nerve in proposing monetary union in the first place. From being the medicine the SNP had to swallow, the pound could now become its poison.
    http://blogs.ft.com/off-message/2014/02/12/the-pound-is-the-snps-poison/
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited February 2014

    Seriously, it can't be long before a Sky News reporter gets washed or blown into a river or the sea. What's the point?

    There isn't any.

    At least now now that Prince William has retired from Air Sea Rescue and is learning how to till his land.

    Where is the story if you can't be rescued by a Royal?

  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited February 2014

    Danny565 said:

    taffys said:

    People from the Home Counties are "often very selfish and spiteful"???

    There is a 'sink you rich southern b8st8rds, sink' element amongst the left and that is pretty shocking.

    Not "sink", but stop spitefully demanding other regions are punished when they already have less, and expecting the Establishment to give you special treatment.
    I must admit the first thing I've heard on TV from every flood affected person interviewed is 'why isn't the government depriving all those northern scroungers to sort out our floods?'. Well I assume that is what 'asking for help' must translate into in whatever dialect is spoken wherever 565 comes from.

    Do all Labour supporters suffer from this neurotic but bigoted psychosis?

    Where was the promise of "money is no object" when there were floods in the north a few years ago? Why was it not "money no object" when northern cities were devastated by the riots? Why is cutting the deficit more important than keeping northerners who typically rely on public-sector employment in work, yet when it comes to the southerners facing a more short-term and less serious problem, suddenly "money is no object"?

    And please, with the greatest of respect to PBTories, I'm not going to take lectures on being "bigoted" when you guys are constantly venting against public-sector workers and benefit-claimants and the like. Why are they fair game for criticism but southern middle-class people are off-limits?
  • antifrank said:

    Liam Furby ‏@MrFurby 7 mins
    Ed Balls still will not rule out currency union with Scotland when pushed by @iaindale #callballs

    Bettertogether, as long as it's not the same hymn sheet.

    Interesting switch of twitterers. Perhaps you didn't like Nicholas Watts's take on the same interview?

    "I don't see how an independent Scotland could keep the pound. Very difficult indeed @edballsmp tells @IainDale @LBC"
    I don't follow Watt, it was an RT.
    Balls still not coming out with a definite no, is he?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    AndyJS said:

    Important news for people in west Wales and NW England:

    David Cameron will be holding a Cobra meeting at 5:30pm.

    I presume they're having the COBRA meeting in Whitehall? Given that we now have these fatuous Cabinet meetings dotted around the country - there's one in Aberdeen soon I'm told - could we do the same with COBRA? Not least since it's often discussing crises that are a long way from the capital. Perhaps the PM and others could be helicoptered into one of the UK military bases around the world.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    >Neil Verlander ‏@neilvic 1m

    #Floods: 'Money no object' PM refuses to say he'll halt @EnvAgency cuts or commit new flood defence cash | Guardian: http://bit.ly/1aVdcig
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,155
    edited February 2014
    Lads have changed the date on their Scotland's currency bet to Jan 1st 2017, so it's now a proper bet. Presume the original was a snafu.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    taffys said:

    People from the Home Counties are "often very selfish and spiteful"???

    There is a 'sink you rich southern b8st8rds, sink' element amongst the left and that is pretty shocking.

    Not "sink", but stop spitefully demanding other regions are punished when they already have less, and expecting the Establishment to give you special treatment.
    I must admit the first thing I've heard on TV from every flood affected person interviewed is 'why isn't the government depriving all those northern scroungers to sort out our floods?'. Well I assume that is what 'asking for help' must translate into in whatever dialect is spoken wherever 565 comes from.

    Do all Labour supporters suffer from this neurotic but bigoted psychosis?

    Where was the promise of "money is no object" when there were floods in the north a few years ago? Why was it not "money no object" when northern cities were devastated by the riots? Why is cutting the deficit more important than keeping northerners who typically rely on public-sector employment in work, yet when it comes to the southerners facing a more short-term and less serious problem, suddenly "money is no object"?

    And please, with the greatest of respect to PBTories, I'm not going to take lectures on being "bigoted" when you guys are constantly venting against public-sector workers and benefit-claimants and the like. Why are they fair game for criticism but southern middle-class people are off-limits?
    They just don't get it.
    Even right wingers are putting their head in their hands after the disasterous fop PR.
    stefanstern ‏@stefanstern 18m

    A Thatcherite take on Dave's "money is no object" comments http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/robin-harris/2014/02/david-cameron-aligned-himself-with-arthur-scargill-when-he-said-that-money-is-no-object/
  • TwistedFireStopperTwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    edited February 2014

    AndyJS said:

    Important news for people in west Wales and NW England:

    David Cameron will be holding a Cobra meeting at 5:30pm.

    I presume they're having the COBRA meeting in Whitehall? Given that we now have these fatuous Cabinet meetings dotted around the country - there's one in Aberdeen soon I'm told - could we do the same with COBRA? Not least since it's often discussing crises that are a long way from the capital. Perhaps the PM and others could be helicoptered into one of the UK military bases around the world.
    Again, a stupid idea, first implemented by that moron Brown. A waste of time and money.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2008/aug/04/hazelblears.gordonbrown
  • smithersjones2013smithersjones2013 Posts: 740
    edited February 2014
    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    taffys said:

    People from the Home Counties are "often very selfish and spiteful"???

    There is a 'sink you rich southern b8st8rds, sink' element amongst the left and that is pretty shocking.

    Not "sink", but stop spitefully demanding other regions are punished when they already have less, and expecting the Establishment to give you special treatment.
    I must admit the first thing I've heard on TV from every flood affected person interviewed is 'why isn't the government depriving all those northern scroungers to sort out our floods?'. Well I assume that is what 'asking for help' must translate into in whatever dialect is spoken wherever 565 comes from.

    Do all Labour supporters suffer from this neurotic but bigoted psychosis?

    Where was the promise of "money is no object" when there were floods in the north a few years ago? Why was "money no object" when northern cities were devastated by the riots?
    What you mean when some of the people of those cities decided to devastate their own neighbourhoods as perverse as that sounds (somewhat different to an extreme act of nature).

    The taxpayer footed the bill for that one too.

    Taxpayers will foot the £200m bill for riot damage as businesses invoke 19th century law

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024410/Taxpayers-foot-200m-riot-damage-businesses-invoke-19th-century-law.html

    It seems Government had to pay that so there was no need for comforting words.

    PS And weren't the floods in 2007 when Gordon Brown was PM? You'd better ask him......
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,346
    edited February 2014

    Interesting comment from Professor Iain McLean, of Nuffield College, Oxford, which echoes something which I've been wondering about:

    I think the Scottish Government’s timetable is not realistic. One sufficient reason that it’s between Scotland and rUK.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/feb/12/mps-question-welfare-and-housing-ministers-over-bedroom-tax-politics-live-blog

    I think too many people are making the mistake of taking what the Yes side say about everything to do with separation will change the following day.

    Based on performance to date I would be astounded if the SNP had thought that far ahead. They've flown so much by the seat of their pants all you can see is bare arse.

    I think it's more a case of constantly trying to second-guess what stands the best chance of getting the biggest number of people to say Yes.

    Getting them to say yes is one thing managing expectations afterwards is another. The SNP have overpromised on Indy and can only underdeliver. My money's on they'll blame the english.

    Once the initial euphoria has died down, there may well be.

    It's all that matters to a Nat, but then afterwards the chickens come home to roost and everyone one else picks up the pieces.

    My guess is that people will make the best of it. They will all understand there is no going back. It may mean that the SNP very rapidly fades from view as a serious force in Scotland, but that is likely whatever happens - once independence is achieved what will it have left to do and what will keep its various parts together?

    Basically nothing. I'd give it a decade and then Scotland will have a RoC government.
    Just checking, please - does RoC mean Right of Centre?

    As for the SNP that is another matter, and I might have agreed with you ten years ago (even if such a comment can, from some others I hasten to add, seem a bit like a Southerner complaining that General Ulysses S. Grant would have to hang up his uniform after Appomattox). However, they have held together for almost a decade in terms of running Scotland (part of it as a minority administration), so we'd have to see. However, the Unionist parties would have a much more difficult transition, I suspect.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    antifrank said:

    Liam Furby ‏@MrFurby 7 mins
    Ed Balls still will not rule out currency union with Scotland when pushed by @iaindale #callballs

    Bettertogether, as long as it's not the same hymn sheet.

    Interesting switch of twitterers. Perhaps you didn't like Nicholas Watts's take on the same interview?

    "I don't see how an independent Scotland could keep the pound. Very difficult indeed @edballsmp tells @IainDale @LBC"
    I don't follow Watt, it was an RT.
    Balls still not coming out with a definite no, is he?
    This comes to mind!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCFB2akLh4s
  • antifrank said:

    Liam Furby ‏@MrFurby 7 mins
    Ed Balls still will not rule out currency union with Scotland when pushed by @iaindale #callballs

    Bettertogether, as long as it's not the same hymn sheet.

    Interesting switch of twitterers. Perhaps you didn't like Nicholas Watts's take on the same interview?

    "I don't see how an independent Scotland could keep the pound. Very difficult indeed @edballsmp tells @IainDale @LBC"
    I don't follow Watt, it was an RT.
    Balls still not coming out with a definite no, is he?
    I see you're taking the Dumb and Dumber approach:

    "What are the chances of a guy like you and a girl like me... ending up together?"
    "Well, that's pretty difficult to say."
    "Hit me with it! I've come a long way to see you, Mary. The least you can do is level with me. What are my chances?"
    "Not good."
    "You mean, not good like one out of a hundred?"
    Mary: I'd say more like one out of a million."
    "So you're telling me there's a chance."
  • isam said:

    antifrank said:

    Liam Furby ‏@MrFurby 7 mins
    Ed Balls still will not rule out currency union with Scotland when pushed by @iaindale #callballs

    Bettertogether, as long as it's not the same hymn sheet.

    Interesting switch of twitterers. Perhaps you didn't like Nicholas Watts's take on the same interview?

    "I don't see how an independent Scotland could keep the pound. Very difficult indeed @edballsmp tells @IainDale @LBC"
    I don't follow Watt, it was an RT.
    Balls still not coming out with a definite no, is he?
    This comes to mind!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCFB2akLh4s
    JINX!
  • Mr. 565, for all the longevity of the flooding and the media reporting [worth recalling they totally ignored Yorkshire once Worcestershire and Gloucestershire were hit in 2007] the actual number of people affected is surprisingly low. In Yorkshire (and elsewhere) in 2007 I think many more people were affected.

    There was also a different PM at the time...
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    taffys said:

    People from the Home Counties are "often very selfish and spiteful"???

    There is a 'sink you rich southern b8st8rds, sink' element amongst the left and that is pretty shocking.

    Be fair, Mr. Taffys', I often have a pop about Yorkshire folk being all about flat-caps, whippets and mucky fat, and Lancastrians being obsessed with black-pudding and tripe and wearing clogs. So when I poster says "People from the Home Counties are "often very selfish and spiteful" I don't mind too much.

    Of course, I am usually teasing either Morris Dancer or TSE but I do get the feeling that that poster actually believes the stereotypical, bigoted nonsense he writes.
  • @TSE my response to you on the prev thread was meant for @TFS.

    Apologies.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Gusting to 71mph now.

    Gutter, going... going...
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    Amazon pays little tax on its UK operation, because of a corporate structure that has the profit appear in low tax Luxembourg.

    Why cannot oil companies do the same?

    If Scotland wants the tax, then surely they need to apply an extraction tax rather than a corporation tax?


    Polruan said:

    It's going to be hellishly complicated, that's for sure. Take oil. Everyone talks blithely about the oil money, but it does not come from a single source and a lot of it is tied up in corporation tax. That means companies not based in Scotland will have to move there in order to pay it into Scottish coffers. How will that be done?
    .
    I'm not an expert on oil and gas taxation, but the special regime for north sea oil is effectively an extraction tax. But there's the element linked to the amount extracted, and then the corporation tax on the profits derived from extracting it so you can't necessarily eliminate the CT element.

    As to the Amazon/Starbucks type example, they're involved in structures where a large amount of the value in the business can be attributed to the brand, enabling the brand to be managed offshore and attracting substantial revenues away from the UK. It's entirely legitimate (if antisocial) and is based on economic analysis of the value chain within the parameters of OECD transfer pricing guidelines. That's much easier to do in an intangible/brand business than a bricks and mortar (well, rigs and boats) business where it's pretty indisputable where the value generation occurs. Even so, I'd expect resources companies to maximise the benefit of similar transfer pricing techniques to locate some revenues in lower tax jurisdictions - it's just that the effect would be much smaller than that achieved by Amazon.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    I'm sorry if it offends people to link to Guido, but this is just straight out of The Thick Of It:

    http://order-order.com/2014/02/12/ed-miliband-out-of-his-depth/

    Malcolm Tucker would have a few choice words! And this is the man to stand up for Britain is it Labour? Sheeeeeesh....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,346

    Lads have changed the date on their Scotland's currency bet to Jan 1st 2017, so it's now a proper bet. Presume the original was a snafu.

    Odds different too - but given today's news still distinctly odd, if you'll forgive the expression, even for those who don't agree with Rev Wings' analysis (which has the link):

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/a-second-weird-thing/#more-49914

  • Mr. Llama, mail for you (nothing exciting).
  • antifrank said:

    antifrank said:

    Liam Furby ‏@MrFurby 7 mins
    Ed Balls still will not rule out currency union with Scotland when pushed by @iaindale #callballs

    Bettertogether, as long as it's not the same hymn sheet.

    Interesting switch of twitterers. Perhaps you didn't like Nicholas Watts's take on the same interview?

    "I don't see how an independent Scotland could keep the pound. Very difficult indeed @edballsmp tells @IainDale @LBC"
    I don't follow Watt, it was an RT.
    Balls still not coming out with a definite no, is he?
    I see you're taking the Dumb and Dumber approach:

    "What are the chances of a guy like you and a girl like me... ending up together?"
    "Well, that's pretty difficult to say."
    "Hit me with it! I've come a long way to see you, Mary. The least you can do is level with me. What are my chances?"
    "Not good."
    "You mean, not good like one out of a hundred?"
    Mary: I'd say more like one out of a million."
    "So you're telling me there's a chance."
    Actually, my main point would be that even if Osborne is going to get all definitive on Scotland's ass tomorrow, Labour are still incredibly reluctant to be seen working together with them. I'm still not ruling out a mealy-mouthed, wee escape clause from George tomorrow, mind.
    What Danny Alexander is up to I have no earthly idea.
  • GildasGildas Posts: 92
    "People from African countries are often very stupid and criminal"
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    Odss on winning the Premier League versus deficit.

    Chelsea 7/4 (0)
    Arsenal 6/1 (2)
    Man City 6/5 (3)
    Liverpool 10/1 (7)
    Tottenham 200/1 (10)

    Everyone has a game in hand on Chelsea. But what strikes me is how a 3 point deficit sees Spurs considered 20 times less likely to win the League than Liverpool. Are they really such no hopers?
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    GONE!!!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410

    Odss on winning the Premier League versus deficit.

    Chelsea 7/4 (0)
    Arsenal 6/1 (2)
    Man City 6/5 (3)
    Liverpool 10/1 (7)
    Tottenham 200/1 (10)

    Everyone has a game in hand on Chelsea. But what strikes me is how a 3 point deficit sees Spurs considered 20 times less likely to win the League than Liverpool. Are they really such no hopers?

    Dunno but I took a couple of quid on Betfair on Arsenal as they were getting thrashed at Anfield. Markets always seem to overreact like that.
  • Mr. Divvie, if Labour did that and Yes won that could prove sub-optimal for the General Election. Labour will either have to u-turn or may look like they're 'soft' on Scottish negotiations.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    edited February 2014
    Carnyx said:

    Interesting comment from Professor Iain McLean, of Nuffield College, Oxford, which echoes something which I've been wondering about:

    I think the Scottish Government’s timetable is not realistic. One sufficient reason that it’s between Scotland and rUK.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/feb/12/mps-question-welfare-and-housing-ministers-over-bedroom-tax-politics-live-blog

    I think too many people are making the mistake of taking what the Yes side say about everything to do with separation will change the following day.

    Based on performance to date I would be astounded if the SNP had thought that far ahead. They've flown so much by the seat of their pants all you can see is bare arse.

    I think it's more a case of constantly trying to second-guess what stands the best chance of getting the biggest number of people to say Yes.

    Getting them to say yes is one thing managing expectations afterwards is another. The SNP have overpromised on Indy and can only underdeliver. My money's on they'll blame the english.

    Once the initial euphoria has died down, there may well be.

    It's all that matters to a Nat, but then afterwards the chickens come home to roost and everyone one else picks up the pieces.

    My guess is that people will make the best of it. They will all understand there is no going

    Basically nothing. I'd give it a decade and then Scotland will have a RoC government.
    Just checking, please - does RoC mean Right of Centre?

    As for the SNP that is another matter, and I might have agreed with you ten years ago (even if such a comment can, from some others I hasten to add, seem a bit like a Southerner complaining that General Ulysses S. Grant would have to hang up his uniform after Appomattox). However, they have held together for almost a decade in terms of running Scotland (part of it as a minority administration), so we'd have to see. However, the Unionist parties would have a much more difficult transition, I suspect.

    Yes RoC means right of centre. And while you correctly say the Unionist parties would have an adjustment to make once the Nat angle has gone politics would quickly revert to a Left Right spectrum as it has across most other states. The opposition will always get in at some point so an RoC govt after about a decade seems a reasonable proposition to me.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. Llama, mail for you (nothing exciting).

    Nothing arrived so far, oh thou of the flat-cap whippet and mucky fat sandwiches.

    Best wishes

    Selfish and spiteful southerner
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    Lads have changed the date on their Scotland's currency bet to Jan 1st 2017, so it's now a proper bet. Presume the original was a snafu.

    Then they'll be obviously be deluged with bets from adamant PBtories and kippers.

    This comes to mind.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZwuTo7zKM8

    LOL
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,626

    I think too many people are making the mistake of taking what the Yes side say about process and policies in the event of a Yes too seriously. The bottom line is that unless Scotland declares independence unilaterally - which would be lunacy - it won't happen until there is an agreement. And there can only be an agreement if both sides agree. You can't put a time limit on that and you can't dictate the terms.

    I would be genuinely shocked if the SNP did not know this. Of course they do. However, it obviously does not suit their purposes to say so. The only thing they are interested in right now is getting that Yes. Should they be successful, their positions on absolutely everything to do with separation will change the following day.

    That's a fair point, but, even putting aside that particular date, the question of whether serious negotiations could even start in the last few months of this parliament is an interesting one. More widely, in respect of other issues like the currency, I think the point is more that the SNP seem to have left plenty of exposed flank which the other side can attack.

    The timescales also potentially interact with the EU renegotiation and referendum, if we have a Conservative government as well as a Scottish Yes vote. The idea of simultaneously negotiating both would be a mandarin's nightmare, I imagine. Still, I guess the double is a very remote possibility.

    It's going to be hellishly complicated, that's for sure. Take oil. Everyone talks blithely about the oil money, but it does not come from a single source and a lot of it is tied up in corporation tax. That means companies not based in Scotland will have to move there in order to pay it into Scottish coffers. How will that be done?
    I presume the oil companies have a deal with the UK government to extract oil from UK waters. Would (could?) those contracts be ripped up on independence? I've always thought a key plank of the independence argument was that a Scottish government would control the industry much more tightly and in the national interest a la Norway, rather than squander it like like Thatcher et al.
    As I'm sure @RichardTyndall can confirm, the British North Sea has 10x as many holes in it as the Norwegian North Sea (on a square mile basis).

    In terms of square miles of prospective acreage - and especially when you include the Barents Sea - Norway has about twice as many places it could drill.

    And it has one-twelfth the number of people.

    Norway may have been "better" at shepherding the wealth than the UK, but it helps when you're 20x as endowed on a per person basis.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 2014

    Odss on winning the Premier League versus deficit.

    Chelsea 7/4 (0)
    Arsenal 6/1 (2)
    Man City 6/5 (3)
    Liverpool 10/1 (7)
    Tottenham 200/1 (10)

    Everyone has a game in hand on Chelsea. But what strikes me is how a 3 point deficit sees Spurs considered 20 times less likely to win the League than Liverpool. Are they really such no hopers?

    Top 4 Finish

    Liverpool 4/11
    Spurs 10/3

    Reckon Spurs is your bet if you like your theory, goal difference is worth an extra 0.5pt to Liverpool though
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    Does Rod have a phone app that allows us to follow the course of his gutter up through northern England, across Scotland and on to Norway?
  • Mr. Llama, e-mail*. Ahem.

    I hope your house is not inundated.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Odss on winning the Premier League versus deficit.

    Chelsea 7/4 (0)
    Arsenal 6/1 (2)
    Man City 6/5 (3)
    Liverpool 10/1 (7)
    Tottenham 200/1 (10)

    Everyone has a game in hand on Chelsea. But what strikes me is how a 3 point deficit sees Spurs considered 20 times less likely to win the League than Liverpool. Are they really such no hopers?

    Dunno but I took a couple of quid on Betfair on Arsenal as they were getting thrashed at Anfield. Markets always seem to overreact like that.

    Arsenal will find a way to win it. City and Chelsea are better sides when at their best, but they seem to struggle sometimes to put poorer opposition away. Arsenal are pretty ruthless on that front. Lots of last minute goals. Anyone who has seen a bit of Spurs this season might hesitate to say they'll even finish in the top 6 - that will depend on Man Utd sustaining their current crappiness. Spurs getting close to wining the PL is totally and utterly out of the question.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,626
    Gildas said:

    "People from African countries are often very stupid and criminal"

    Who are we quoting today?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,471
    Hugh said:

    Ya know, my incisive analysis of this flooding is that it's actually pretty bad.

    And it could get worse and / or drag on for a long time.

    Is it going to shift any votes does anyone think?

    I doubt it'll shift many votes.

    One of the worst things about flooding is that normal wall plaster needs to be chipped away to the level of the water ingress, and the entire walls replastered once the walls are dry. This can take ages.

    Perhaps the government should give subsidies to flood-affected properties for them to have waterproof plaster (e.g. lime) instead of normal plaster, where applicable. It means if there is another flood to the same level then any carpets and furniture will be ruined, but people can move back in much quicker after the walls are washed down. ISTR that some insurance companies insist on it in high-risk areas.

    There is a great deal that can be done to make houses more flood-resiliant. It'd still be a bu**er if they are flooded, but not as bad as it could be.

    http://www.aviva.co.uk/news-and-guides/home-advice/video/flooding-information/#FloodResilientProject
  • ZenPaganZenPagan Posts: 689
    Carnyx said:

    Lads have changed the date on their Scotland's currency bet to Jan 1st 2017, so it's now a proper bet. Presume the original was a snafu.

    Odds different too - but given today's news still distinctly odd, if you'll forgive the expression, even for those who don't agree with Rev Wings' analysis (which has the link):

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/a-second-weird-thing/#more-49914

    Not sure why you think the odds are wrong I would think it quite likely that Scotland may use the pound without currency union and that would fulfil the criteria for the bet

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,346





    Yes RoC means right of centre. And while you correctly say the Unionist parties would have an adjustment to make once the Nat angle has gone politics would quickly revert to a Left Right spectrum as it has across most other states. The opposition will always get in at some point so an RoC govt after about a decade seems a reasonable proposition to me.

    Thank you.
  • GildasGildas Posts: 92
    rcs1000 said:

    Gildas said:

    "People from African countries are often very stupid and criminal"

    Who are we quoting today?
    I was, clearly, paraphrasing Labour voter Danny565 and his nasty piece of bigoted gibberish: "people in the Home Counties are often very selfish and spiteful".

    The true face of the Left. A slippage of the mask.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Anyone seen Roger of late ?
  • Gildas said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Gildas said:

    "People from African countries are often very stupid and criminal"

    Who are we quoting today?
    I was, clearly, paraphrasing Labour voter Danny565 and his nasty piece of bigoted gibberish: "people in the Home Counties are often very selfish and spiteful".

    The true face of the Left. A slippage of the mask.

    How is your belief that "nasty and bigoted" Danny565 is the true face of the left anything less than nasty and bigoted?

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,471
    The curse of Jessop:

    Yesterday I said on a thread that the RAF Voyager wasn't a bad plane (even if the PFI deal was criminally bad). Today, they're all grounded:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26157641
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Anyone seen Roger of late ?

    Much missed.

    We need to send a search party into Groucho's.
  • Mr. Brooke, afraid not. Hope he's back on soon.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited February 2014

    Gildas said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Gildas said:

    "People from African countries are often very stupid and criminal"

    Who are we quoting today?
    I was, clearly, paraphrasing Labour voter Danny565 and his nasty piece of bigoted gibberish: "people in the Home Counties are often very selfish and spiteful".

    The true face of the Left. A slippage of the mask.

    How is your belief that "nasty and bigoted" Danny565 is the true face of the left anything less than nasty and bigoted?
    I think the only thing we know for sure is that Danny565 is indeed nasty and bigoted and - I indulge in speculation here - a tiny bit dim.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Virgin advises passengers to abandon travel.

    Crewe station roof blown off. Passengers evacuated...
  • GildasGildas Posts: 92
    BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking 1m
    Tories, Labour and Lib Dems to declare opposition to a currency union with Scotland - BBC learns
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Anorak said:

    Gildas said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Gildas said:

    "People from African countries are often very stupid and criminal"

    Who are we quoting today?
    I was, clearly, paraphrasing Labour voter Danny565 and his nasty piece of bigoted gibberish: "people in the Home Counties are often very selfish and spiteful".

    The true face of the Left. A slippage of the mask.

    How is your belief that "nasty and bigoted" Danny565 is the true face of the left anything less than nasty and bigoted?
    I think the only thing we know for sure is that Danny565 is indeed nasty and bigoted and - I indulge in speculation here - a tiny bit dim.
    A bit mean. Isn't he just Northern?
  • GildasGildas Posts: 92

    Gildas said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Gildas said:

    "People from African countries are often very stupid and criminal"

    Who are we quoting today?
    I was, clearly, paraphrasing Labour voter Danny565 and his nasty piece of bigoted gibberish: "people in the Home Counties are often very selfish and spiteful".

    The true face of the Left. A slippage of the mask.

    How is your belief that "nasty and bigoted" Danny565 is the true face of the left anything less than nasty and bigoted?

    Well at least I have some clear evidence - Danny565, for a start.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Annette ‏@brandane01 2m

    @BBCScotlandNews Danny Alexander has just been on the radio denying that Osborne has said there will be no currency union.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    AveryLP said:

    Anyone seen Roger of late ?

    Much missed.

    We need to send a search party into Groucho's.
    There was a Tories for Miliband do in Ludlow last week, perhaps he's still up there.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited February 2014
    Gildas said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Gildas said:

    "People from African countries are often very stupid and criminal"

    Who are we quoting today?
    I was, clearly, paraphrasing Labour voter Danny565 and his nasty piece of bigoted gibberish: "people in the Home Counties are often very selfish and spiteful".

    The true face of the Left. A slippage of the mask.

    So I assume you will never have typed similarly "bigoted gibberish" about public-sector workers or about benefit-claimants? Ok then.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 2014
    "The ‘Mrs Duffy’ moment was so damaging to Labour in 2010 because it encapsulated a fear that had been building for years: that New Labour looked down its nose at people who were worried about immigration. Labour won few votes among those who saw immigration as their most important issue, but it lost plenty among people who felt the party disdained their views.

    ..politicians need to offer voters answers to the problems they blame on immigration. Immigration is a vortex issue: it sucks in concerns about housing, wages, benefits, jobs, public services, community cohesion and crime. Recent European immigration creates a new set of issues as young workers expecting to be here for a short period of time compete with tradespeople trying to support families in Britain in the midst of a cost of living crisis "


    http://www.progressonline.org.uk/2014/02/07/the-immigration-vortex/
  • GildasGildas Posts: 92
    The indyref debate just got very interesting. Salmond now has to decide whether he would

    1. Use the £ without rUK permission, as Panama uses the dollar - with zero fiscal/political control over that currency
    2. Start a Scottish currency
    3. Join the euro
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    F*** me, the gusts are getting scary now...
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:

    Anyone seen Roger of late ?

    Much missed.

    We need to send a search party into Groucho's.
    There was a Tories for Miliband do in Ludlow last week, perhaps he's still up there.
    I am not sure Roger would know how to get to Ludlow unchaperoned, Mr. Brooke.

    Leicester Square from Old Compton Street appears to be his outer limit.

  • QUOTE "…Like other struggling competitors before him, Farage is quick to allege the use of intimidation: “You’re the little old dear at number 33. The postman delivers the ballot paper. Two minutes later, there’s a knock on the door. It’s the Labour canvasser. ‘Do you want some help with that? Can I take that from you?’ They’ve even got a barcoding system.”

    I have been there for three weeks.

    - There is no barcode system.

    - All the postal votes landed at once. That's 19,000 in total. The most people we have had in one day is just over 150 people.

    - There are more people Labour hasn't spoken to than have spoken to.

    - The only reported incidents by residents have been between the BNP and UKIP. Outside the Mountain Ash pub and then in Sale on a BNP mass canvass. Given the BNP leaflets are predominenetly anti-UKIP I'd guess there has been tension between the two.

    - Given that the last poll I saw UKIP were disliked by 57% of voters it is no surprise that signs saying NO BNP or UKIP on this doorstep have appeared and UKIP's unpopularity is not due to 'lack of awareness' but genuine dislike. A reaction to their popularity. It's hardly surprising that Labour canvassers are finding a strong anti-UKIP vote.

    - Canvassing Sale Road. There were a lot of UKIP garden posters up (50:50) from people who had not canvassed UKIP. It transpired that most people were not interested in politics and just said alright yes in an 'I'm not bothered' manner. One was unaware he had one in his garden.

    -There has been serious questions of the UKIP candidate's claims in newspaper articles. Wythenshawe man living in leafy Cheshire. Self made but who's company did not survive but did take £100,000 of EU cash. Farage has admitted UKIP have a candidate problems as a Party.

    It all takes it's toll and if UKIP do lose, then it is simply this; people themselves chose not to vote for them.



  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. Llama, e-mail*. Ahem.

    I hope your house is not inundated.

    Nah, we are far enough up from the nearest watercourse to escape flooding (the gutters on the south side of the house are fecked though). However, a few hundred yards down the main road they are building new houses alongside what normally appears to be a small brook - that site is completely waterlogged and several inches deep on its northern edge. All the old locals knew that that field floods, which is why it was never built on. What I struggle to understand is how the developers and their engineers never found out or perhaps they did and just don't care because after the houses are sold it ain't their problem.

    Still no email from you, well not since the one Tuesday to which I have replied.

    Off to be spiteful and selfish, or maybe I'll vary it and be selfish and spiteful, anyway I think I'll be plotting how we here in the South can grind the faces off you poor Northerners - don't want to young Mr 565 feel that his stereotypes might be a figment of his imagination.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    AveryLP said:


    Leicester Square from Old Compton Street appears to be his outer limit.

    To be fair he's able to do that blindfolded and on his knees.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    AveryLP said:

    Anyone seen Roger of late ?

    Much missed.

    We need to send a search party into Groucho's.
    There was a Tories for Miliband do in Ludlow last week, perhaps he's still up there.
    Maybe he's cowering in fear from Louise Mensch?

    *chortle*
  • TGOHF said:

    Farage raging against the machine politics ?

    But Nigel - your party will do more to ease Labour back into power than Labour themselves....

    What do you expect us to do, vote for someone who hates us? Vote for things we don't believe in?

    Only people with no principles do that..
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    edited February 2014
    Mr. Crosby, hope the wind dies down and doesn't cause too much damage in your neck of the woods.

    Edited extra bit: ah, you replied just after the last time I checked, Mr. Llama.
  • GildasGildas Posts: 92
    Danny565 said:

    Gildas said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Gildas said:

    "People from African countries are often very stupid and criminal"

    Who are we quoting today?
    I was, clearly, paraphrasing Labour voter Danny565 and his nasty piece of bigoted gibberish: "people in the Home Counties are often very selfish and spiteful".

    The true face of the Left. A slippage of the mask.

    So I assume you will never have typed similarly "bigoted gibberish" about public-sector workers or about benefit-claimants? Ok then.
    Knock yourself out. Search pb and find them.
  • @Graham_Jones_MP - Thanks for that, it sounds sensible stuff.

    Do you have a feel for second place?
  • Welcome, Mr Jones MP.
    Nice to see you put your head above the parapet.
This discussion has been closed.