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If you’re feeling Under Pressure, why not relax, and converse into the night on the day’s events in PB NightHawks.

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TheScreamingEagles

Re #26.

In my experience Arsenal fans make the best girlfriends.

They insist you take them up the Arsenal on a regular basis.

I'll get my coat.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Eagles, what exquisite musical taste you have. You're My Fairy King

Scott_P

@DAaronovitch: Quick poll. Your house is in imminent danger of flooding. Who do u most want to appear on your doorstep? Cam, Ed, Nigel, Charles or Justin?

AlastairMeeks

TheScreamingEagles said:

Re #26.

In my experience Arsenal fans make the best girlfriends.

They insist you take them up the Arsenal on a regular basis.

I'll get my coat.

More like, lots of fancy approach work but unable to finish things off in the box.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. P, no Charlotte Hawkins option?

FluffyThoughts

FPT:

Anyone thinking that the through-life costs of Dave-B are excessive had better look closer to defence contracts:

• Cronie Blair spent £2-billion on 'buying-in' and giving away BAe-Systems' technology for the JSF/JCA,
  
• Look at Gormless McBruin's Voyager PFI via the Bank-of-Scotland (and do the maths), and
  
• The Right Dishonourable Total Hoon had some strange dealings with Berlusconi's Finmeccanica; Who employs him now...?
  

Dave-B - Lightening-II is an Americanism (please note Al-Beeb) - is the only show in town. Thanks Labour (especially "Lord" West)....

JohnLilburne

TheScreamingEagles said:

Re #26.

In my experience Arsenal fans make the best girlfriends.

Not at all. It is Fat Bottomed Girls.

TheScreamingEagles

I've added this as link 30

Party big guns to rule out currency union with Scotland

Scotland's hopes of keeping the pound will come under attack from George Osborne, Danny Alexander and Ed Balls

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/feb/11/main-parties-rule-out-scottish-currency-union?CMP=twt_gu

foxinsoxuk

Re 23:

I thought that the forces had 1968 off. I remember a recruiting ad to that effect.

Presumably active service was considered part of the interest. Surely restive Scots will sign on to yhe rUK foreign legion in the future if they fancy getting stuck in.

Mick_Pork

"Scotland’s hopes of keeping the pound will come under attack from George Osborne, Danny Alexander and Ed Balls"

LOL

BannedInParis

"I thought that the forces had 1968 off. I remember a recruiting ad to that effect."

No-one died in combat, I think.

From arrse, its worded as "there has been only one year - 1968 - when a soldier of the Crown has not been killed while on active service somewhere in the world."

Carnyx

Hugh said:

Mick_Pork said:

"Scotland’s hopes of keeping the pound will come under attack from George Osborne, Danny Alexander and Ed Balls"

LOL

How oh how will they cope with that onslaught?

The interesting issue is what these three actually turn out to say - and how far they leave themselves a loophole to try and keep the Scots on side to sterling if it comes to that (given things like the balance of payments). Osborne, as quoted, certainly seems to be sucking his teeth as much as he can without actually saying no, he can't mend the gasket.

It's not as if Messrs Osborne and Alexander are wildly popular in Scotland, either, though I don't know about Mr Balls (he does rather raise the question of why Mr Darling isn't doing his job if the union is so important that it takes Mr Darling to save it).

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Carnyx, indeed, it'll be interesting to see the detail. Even if they just reiterate whatever Darling's line is, it'll be of significance (as those three will have a significant say in the economic aspect of potential negotiations if Yes wins).

*sighs*

I do hope Scotland votes No.

Scott_P

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Carnyx, indeed, it'll be interesting to see the detail. Even if they just reiterate whatever Darling's line is, it'll be of significance (as those three will have a significant say in the economic aspect of potential negotiations if Yes wins).

*sighs*

I do hope Scotland votes No.

They are all going to quote The Governor.

You can't have stable currency union without political union. Look at Greece.

If you want a currency union, with political union, guess what?

isam

This behaviour sounds rather familiar

"But I wonder what Mr Alexander would make of the behaviour of the red rosette-wearing activists in Sale screaming into the face of Ukip-supporting pensioners, calling them “Nazi racist scum”? And will he back the view of his fellow party members who warned Ukip supporters who have boards up in their garden that they must be taken down because, “They’re our houses, they’re council houses”."

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/nigel-farage-the-wythenshawe-byelection-has-been-as-dirty-as-they-come-9122243.html

Morris_Dancer

Mr. P, it would also be legitimate and relevant to point out the eurozone is moving towards closer fiscal and banking integration, the opposite direction the SNP wants (regarding the UK).

TheLastBoyScout

Hugh said:

Mick_Pork said:

"Scotland’s hopes of keeping the pound will come under attack from George Osborne, Danny Alexander and Ed Balls"

LOL

How oh how will they cope with that onslaught?

I can see the Talisker wobbling in Salmond's hands as I write

Scott_P

Sorry, Nige...

@JohnRentoul: Translation: "Not going to happen." General election debates cannot be "taken for granted". BBC http://t.co/bEPSqsQf9d

nigel4england

isam said:

This behaviour sounds rather familiar

"But I wonder what Mr Alexander would make of the behaviour of the red rosette-wearing activists in Sale screaming into the face of Ukip-supporting pensioners, calling them “Nazi racist scum”? And will he back the view of his fellow party members who warned Ukip supporters who have boards up in their garden that they must be taken down because, “They’re our houses, they’re council houses”."

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/nigel-farage-the-wythenshawe-byelection-has-been-as-dirty-as-they-come-9122243.html

Charming.

And looking at charmless Hugh's response it just emphasises that people like him are the true fascists.

isam

nigel4england said:

isam said:

This behaviour sounds rather familiar

"But I wonder what Mr Alexander would make of the behaviour of the red rosette-wearing activists in Sale screaming into the face of Ukip-supporting pensioners, calling them “Nazi racist scum”? And will he back the view of his fellow party members who warned Ukip supporters who have boards up in their garden that they must be taken down because, “They’re our houses, they’re council houses”."

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/nigel-farage-the-wythenshawe-byelection-has-been-as-dirty-as-they-come-9122243.html

Charming.

And looking at charmless Hugh's response it just emphasises that people like him are the true fascists.

Labour and BNP playing Stalin and Hitler to UKIPs Churchill..

Carnyx

Hugh said:

Carnyx said:

Hugh said:

Mick_Pork said:

"Scotland’s hopes of keeping the pound will come under attack from George Osborne, Danny Alexander and Ed Balls"

LOL

How oh how will they cope with that onslaught?

The interesting issue is what these three actually turn out to say - and how far they leave themselves a loophole to try and keep the Scots on side to sterling if it comes to that (given things like the balance of payments). Osborne, as quoted, certainly seems to be sucking his teeth as much as he can without actually saying no, he can't mend the gasket.

It's not as if Messrs Osborne and Alexander are wildly popular in Scotland, either, though I don't know about Mr Balls (he does rather raise the question of why Mr Darling isn't doing his job if the union is so important that it takes Mr Darling to save it).

The interesting thing to me is that the No / Unionist side don't seem to have realised that they're effectively fighting an election campaign. A very important one.

I'm being dense (my fault, no doubt) - could you please clarify?

Ishmael_X

Mick_Pork said:

"Scotland’s hopes of keeping the pound will come under attack from George Osborne, Danny Alexander and Ed Balls"

LOL

And here is how it looked to McCrone in 1974:

"It must be concluded therefore that large revenues and balance of payments
gains would indeed accrue to a Scottish Government [from North Sea Oil] in the event of
independence provided that steps were taken either by carried interest or by
taxation to secure the Government ‘take’. Undoubtedly this would banish any
anxieties the Government might have had about its budgetary position or its
balance of payments. The country would tend to be in chronic surplus to a
quite embarrassing degree and its currency would become the hardest in
Europe, with the exception perhaps of the Norwegian kroner. Just as deposed
monarchs and African leaders have in the past used the Swiss franc as a
haven of security, so nowwould the Scottish pound be seen as a good hedge
against inflation and devaluation and the Scottish banks could expect to find
themselves inundated with a speculative inflow of foreign funds. "

Tragic.

Mick_Pork

Carnyx said:

, though I don't know about Mr Balls

I do.

Balls was one of the 'big guns' sent to scotland to try and 'save' labour's 2011 scottish election campaign from itself.

That went well.

As I said before the thing to watch out for will be if labour start to get desperate and double down on the negativity like they did in 2011. Which they show every sign of doing so. They still don't seem to have a clue that currency is way, way down the list of the scottish public's concerns and priorities for Independence.

Charles

Re no #22, to be fair the Americans barely made it on time, although I'm sure that the Canadians made a good and valiant contribution.

And I'm rather pleased that we've managed to forget Gallipoli! The Brits have a rather bad habit of commemorating glorious defeats (Corunna, Dunkirk, Flores, etc)

PBModerator

Hugh said:

nigel4england said:

isam said:

This behaviour sounds rather familiar

"But I wonder what Mr Alexander would make of the behaviour of the red rosette-wearing activists in Sale screaming into the face of Ukip-supporting pensioners, calling them “Nazi racist scum”? And will he back the view of his fellow party members who warned Ukip supporters who have boards up in their garden that they must be taken down because, “They’re our houses, they’re council houses”."

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/nigel-farage-the-wythenshawe-byelection-has-been-as-dirty-as-they-come-9122243.html

Charming.

And looking at charmless Hugh's response it just emphasises that people like him are the true fascists.

Is it acceptable to call fellow posters "fascists" on PB?

It is not.

TheLastBoyScout

Frankly the unionists have become a laughing stock. The strategy to deliberately create uncertainly is risible. No wonder Salmond wants a debate with Dave:

1. David, would you welcome an independent Scotland into Sterling?

Ooh, tricky, maybe, dunno.

2. David, would you support your good neighbour Scotland's membership of the EU?

Erm, maybe, maybe not, not sure, perhaps.

3. David, would you welcome open borders with your neighbour and trading partner?

Erm...

(I say all this as a unionist)

Carnyx

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Carnyx, indeed, it'll be interesting to see the detail. Even if they just reiterate whatever Darling's line is, it'll be of significance (as those three will have a significant say in the economic aspect of potential negotiations if Yes wins).

*sighs*

I do hope Scotland votes No.

Tot homines, quot sententiae - but point taken, though as has been pointed out by others what is said in the runup and what happens after a yes are different beasties. By the way, is it just an accident of wording, or are you expecting an all-party coalition for negotiations?

Mick_Pork

Derrick McGuire ‏@3CXDesmo

It`s so reassuring that Labour have ditched the tactics which led to #McCrone being buried for 30 yrs.. Oh !Hang on.. http://wingsoverscotland.com/richard-baker-is-a-liar/ …


Janet Graham ‏@Jintyg51

Wings Over Scotland | Lies then and lies now http://wingsoverscotland.com/lies-then-and-lies-now/ … #Misinformation #Bias #CoverUp #OilRevenue #YesScot #IndyRef #McCrone

isam

Hugh said:

isam said:

nigel4england said:

isam said:

This behaviour sounds rather familiar

"But I wonder what Mr Alexander would make of the behaviour of the red rosette-wearing activists in Sale screaming into the face of Ukip-supporting pensioners, calling them “Nazi racist scum”? And will he back the view of his fellow party members who warned Ukip supporters who have boards up in their garden that they must be taken down because, “They’re our houses, they’re council houses”."

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/nigel-farage-the-wythenshawe-byelection-has-been-as-dirty-as-they-come-9122243.html

Charming.

And looking at charmless Hugh's response it just emphasises that people like him are the true fascists.

Labour and BNP playing Stalin and Hitler to UKIPs Churchill..

Look, Wolfie, just because you and your "spark mates in Big Dave's greasy spoon, we all had Hi-Vis on" are desperate for your party to win loads of votes from Labour, it just isn't happening.

Zzzzzzzzzzz

JohnLilburne

Hugh said:

nigel4england said:

isam said:

This behaviour sounds rather familiar

"But I wonder what Mr Alexander would make of the behaviour of the red rosette-wearing activists in Sale screaming into the face of Ukip-supporting pensioners, calling them “Nazi racist scum”? And will he back the view of his fellow party members who warned Ukip supporters who have boards up in their garden that they must be taken down because, “They’re our houses, they’re council houses”."

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/nigel-farage-the-wythenshawe-byelection-has-been-as-dirty-as-they-come-9122243.html

Charming.

And looking at charmless Hugh's response it just emphasises that people like him are the true fascists.

Is it acceptable to call fellow posters "fascists" on PB?

No, but when you condone calling Ukip supporters "Nazi", "racist" and "scum" you do rather invite it.

foxinsoxuk

That sort of intimidatory behaviour is unlikely to win over wavering voters. Sometimes I wonder if canvassers do more home than good. I remember canvassing for Labour in 1997 with some very New Labour folk, but also some unreformed unilateralist militants in the target seat of Loughborough. Enthusiastic though they were, I think they struggled to win over many waverers. Perhaps the canvass data and GOTV effects of the longstanding supporters was the point. I found the whole experience quite thought provoking, not least how amateurish it all was. The opposition was worse though, hardly campaigned at all as far as we could tell.

Hugh said:

screaming into the face of Ukip-supporting pensioners, calling them “Nazi racist scum”?

Seems fair enough.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Pork, it's also worth considering how much the Triad's speech(es) will be for Scottish consumption, and how much for non-Scottish consumption.

They may be seeking to neutralise it as a General Election issue by agreeing a cross-party consensus on certain/many aspects that would be subject to negotation.

TheScreamingEagles

Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 7s

YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour have a five point lead: CON 34%, LAB 39%, LD 10%, UKIP 11%

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Carnyx, we'll have to wait and see, but my guess would be broad agreement in many areas of negotiation amongst the big three parties. They'll all be wary of being painted as soft and, at the same time, not want a bidding war where a position becomes so 'tough' that it's unrealistic (to use a silly example, making the border at the Antonine Wall).

Easterross

TheLastBoyScout said:

Frankly the unionists have become a laughing stock. The strategy to deliberately create uncertainly is risible. No wonder Salmond wants a debate with Dave:

1. David, would you welcome an independent Scotland into Sterling?

Ooh, tricky, maybe, dunno.

2. David, would you support your good neighbour Scotland's membership of the EU?

Erm, maybe, maybe not, not sure, perhaps.

3. David, would you welcome open borders with your neighbour and trading partner?

Erm...

(I say all this as a unionist)

I suspect that even though he might want to say yes to all 3, there will be such an anti-Scottish fervour south of the Border post a Yes vote that he will be forced to say no to all 3.

isam

Hugh said:

isam said:

Hugh said:

isam said:

nigel4england said:

isam said:

This behaviour sounds rather familiar

"But I wonder what Mr Alexander would make of the behaviour of the red rosette-wearing activists in Sale screaming into the face of Ukip-supporting pensioners, calling them “Nazi racist scum”? And will he back the view of his fellow party members who warned Ukip supporters who have boards up in their garden that they must be taken down because, “They’re our houses, they’re council houses”."

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/nigel-farage-the-wythenshawe-byelection-has-been-as-dirty-as-they-come-9122243.html

Charming.

And looking at charmless Hugh's response it just emphasises that people like him are the true fascists.

Labour and BNP playing Stalin and Hitler to UKIPs Churchill..

Look, Wolfie, just because you and your "spark mates in Big Dave's greasy spoon, we all had Hi-Vis on" are desperate for your party to win loads of votes from Labour, it just isn't happening.

Zzzzzzzzzzz

Tough stretch on nights?

What does that even mean?

Carnyx

Mick_Pork said:

Carnyx said:

, though I don't know about Mr Balls

I do.

Balls was one of the 'big guns' sent to scotland to try and 'save' labour's 2011 scottish election campaign from itself.

That went well.

As I said before the thing to watch out for will be if labour start to get desperate and double down on the negativity like they did in 2011. Which they show every sign of doing so. They still don't seem to have a clue that currency is way, way down the list of the scottish public's concerns and priorities for Independence.

You mean from survey data like Sir Tom Hunter's new neutral website?

http://scotlandseptember18.com/hunter-announces-second-phase-poll-results-independence/

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Easterross, not that I'm the embodiment of all Englishness, but I'd suggest only the first would be a No. The third's contingent on Shengen[sp], but if Ireland can manage I see no reason Scotland could not.

You're right that an acrimonious break-up is a sadly realistic possibility, though. Hope it doesn't come to that.

TheLastBoyScout

Easterross said:

TheLastBoyScout said:

Frankly the unionists have become a laughing stock. The strategy to deliberately create uncertainly is risible. No wonder Salmond wants a debate with Dave:

1. David, would you welcome an independent Scotland into Sterling?

Ooh, tricky, maybe, dunno.

2. David, would you support your good neighbour Scotland's membership of the EU?

Erm, maybe, maybe not, not sure, perhaps.

3. David, would you welcome open borders with your neighbour and trading partner?

Erm...

(I say all this as a unionist)

I suspect that even though he might want to say yes to all 3, there will be such an anti-Scottish fervour south of the Border post a Yes vote that he will be forced to say no to all 3.

I don't think that at all. I think Scots are generally well liked in England and should they vote for independence some of us will be a bit sad about it but will wish them and their new nation state well.

Scott_P

TheLastBoyScout said:

Frankly the unionists have become a laughing stock. The strategy to deliberately create uncertainly is risible. No wonder Salmond wants a debate with Dave:

1. David, would you welcome an independent Scotland into Sterling?

Ooh, tricky, maybe, dunno.

2. David, would you support your good neighbour Scotland's membership of the EU?

Erm, maybe, maybe not, not sure, perhaps.

3. David, would you welcome open borders with your neighbour and trading partner?

Erm...

(I say all this as a unionist)

Alex, What currency will you use? Euro. Sterling Don't know...

Alex, will you be a member of NATO? no yes, we want to allow Nukes in Scottish waters. Shh, don't tell anyone

Alex, will you be member of the EU? The experts say no An invisible lawyer I can't tell you about told me we could...

Alex, what happened to the Arc of Prosperity? Er...

Will a separate Scotland be a Republic? yes We want to keep the Queen

It would be a hoot

Morris_Dancer

Anyway, I am off for the night,

foxinsoxuk

Is there a link to the original survey in #22? Maybe rather a voodoo poll.

Remember also that more Brits (and French) died at Gallipoli than ANZACS.

I bet fewer still are aware of the battles in Tanganyika, Namibia Salonika and Mesopotamia involving other Commonwealth troops.

Charles said:

Re no #22, to be fair the Americans barely made it on time, although I'm sure that the Canadians made a good and valiant contribution.

And I'm rather pleased that we've managed to forget Gallipoli! The Brits have a rather bad habit of commemorating glorious defeats (Corunna, Dunkirk, Flores, etc)

Scott_P

@catherine_mayer: Surely what Buzzfeed was invented for: 21 Pictures Of Politicians In Wellies Staring At Floods http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/pictures-of-politicians-in-wellies-and-staring-at-floods via @jimwaterson

Mick_Pork

Carnyx said:

Mick_Pork said:

Carnyx said:

, though I don't know about Mr Balls

I do.

Balls was one of the 'big guns' sent to scotland to try and 'save' labour's 2011 scottish election campaign from itself.

That went well.

As I said before the thing to watch out for will be if labour start to get desperate and double down on the negativity like they did in 2011. Which they show every sign of doing so. They still don't seem to have a clue that currency is way, way down the list of the scottish public's concerns and priorities for Independence.

You mean from survey data like Sir Tom Hunter's new neutral website?

http://scotlandseptember18.com/hunter-announces-second-phase-poll-results-independence/

Which also backs up previous polling that was done in November.
Not to mention that the No campaign has been beating away on those issues for years now, front and centre yet they self-evidently still rank very low indeed. They just don't seem to get it

It's like having scottish tory surgers trying to persuade the scottish public.

Laughable.

TheLastBoyScout

YouGov is 39/34

Yawn.

Scott_P

Back at Wraysbury Primary School, the focal point of the community’s rescue efforts, Ed Miliband had arrived. After taking the wrong path into the building he was ushered into a meeting of “Bronze Command”. His aide was locked out. Mr Miliband later emerged into the crowded school hall and took centre stage to do an interview with Sky News. “Oh no you don’t,” shouted Margaret Lenton. “You people get out. We are busy here. We are trying to get people rescued.” Mr Miliband retreated.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4003027.ece

nigel4england

Hugh said:

nigel4england said:

isam said:

This behaviour sounds rather familiar

"But I wonder what Mr Alexander would make of the behaviour of the red rosette-wearing activists in Sale screaming into the face of Ukip-supporting pensioners, calling them “Nazi racist scum”? And will he back the view of his fellow party members who warned Ukip supporters who have boards up in their garden that they must be taken down because, “They’re our houses, they’re council houses”."

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/nigel-farage-the-wythenshawe-byelection-has-been-as-dirty-as-they-come-9122243.html

Charming.

And looking at charmless Hugh's response it just emphasises that people like him are the true fascists.

Is it acceptable to call fellow posters "fascists" on PB?

I didn't call you a fascist, I just implied it.

However, the standards you hold sum up the Left. You condone calling UKIP supporting pensioners Nazi racist scum yet go crying to Mummy when someone implies something about you.

Golden rule, if you can't take it don't dish it out.

TheLastBoyScout

Scott_P said:

TheLastBoyScout said:

Frankly the unionists have become a laughing stock. The strategy to deliberately create uncertainly is risible. No wonder Salmond wants a debate with Dave:

1. David, would you welcome an independent Scotland into Sterling?

Ooh, tricky, maybe, dunno.

2. David, would you support your good neighbour Scotland's membership of the EU?

Erm, maybe, maybe not, not sure, perhaps.

3. David, would you welcome open borders with your neighbour and trading partner?

Erm...

(I say all this as a unionist)

Alex, What currency will you use? Euro. Sterling Don't know...

Alex, will you be a member of NATO? no yes, we want to allow Nukes in Scottish waters. Shh, don't tell anyone

Alex, will you be member of the EU? The experts say no An invisible lawyer I can't tell you about told me we could...

Alex, what happened to the Arc of Prosperity? Er...

Will a separate Scotland be a Republic? yes We want to keep the Queen

It would be a hoot

The difference is they have something else to say - a vision, something positive. We have focused on technocratic stuff and deliberately trying to create uncertainly which fools no-one. We might yet win the election, but we are losing the campaign.

Scott_P

@dellamirandola0: @anntreneman some poor Spad is frantically rushing around trying to set up a foreign trip so that Nick can cancel it

isam

Hugh said:

isam said:

Hugh said:

isam said:

Hugh said:

isam said:

nigel4england said:

isam said:

This behaviour sounds rather familiar

"But I wonder what Mr Alexander would make of the behaviour of the red rosette-wearing activists in Sale screaming into the face of Ukip-supporting pensioners, calling them “Nazi racist scum”? And will he back the view of his fellow party members who warned Ukip supporters who have boards up in their garden that they must be taken down because, “They’re our houses, they’re council houses”."

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/nigel-farage-the-wythenshawe-byelection-has-been-as-dirty-as-they-come-9122243.html

Charming.

And looking at charmless Hugh's response it just emphasises that people like him are the true fascists.

Labour and BNP playing Stalin and Hitler to UKIPs Churchill..

Look, Wolfie, just because you and your "spark mates in Big Dave's greasy spoon, we all had Hi-Vis on" are desperate for your party to win loads of votes from Labour, it just isn't happening.

Zzzzzzzzzzz

Tough stretch on nights?

What does that even mean?

Sorry Wolfie, went off one there for a second, you seemed a bit tired.

Perhaps ask what your spark mates think when you're clocking on tomorrow.

Some of my mates are sparks, I'm not. I don't clock on anywhere haha!

What's your problem with working class people?

JohnLilburne

Hugh said:

JohnLilburne said:

Hugh said:

nigel4england said:

isam said:

This behaviour sounds rather familiar

"But I wonder what Mr Alexander would make of the behaviour of the red rosette-wearing activists in Sale screaming into the face of Ukip-supporting pensioners, calling them “Nazi racist scum”? And will he back the view of his fellow party members who warned Ukip supporters who have boards up in their garden that they must be taken down because, “They’re our houses, they’re council houses”."

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/nigel-farage-the-wythenshawe-byelection-has-been-as-dirty-as-they-come-9122243.html

Charming.

And looking at charmless Hugh's response it just emphasises that people like him are the true fascists.

Is it acceptable to call fellow posters "fascists" on PB?

No, but when you condone calling Ukip supporters "Nazi", "racist" and "scum" you do rather invite it.

I think it's fair enough that members of the voting public should be allowed to express whatever opinion they want about UKIP voters, and even better if they are correct.

You're not so keen on being called a fascist though. Why not? Most of us are voters here, yet when one of us suggests that your views make you a fascist, you run snivelling to the mods. Yet you think it is OK to scream worse insults at people in the street

It's fine to express an opinion, but what has been described by Farage surely violates the law: behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace.

And as for it being correct... well, some Kippers might be racists as are some members of all political parties. Scum and Nazi... no. You might believe that believing in restricting immigration makes someone a racist, but if so you are clearly a donkey orifice in my opinion.

Carnyx

And at sea, if I may add - Coronel/Falklands for a start, even if Jutland is deemed to be in Western Europe and the U-boats operated closer to home than in WW2 (can't remember figures for worldwide raiders such as the Emden).

Don't know if the Russian intervention counts, though I seem to recall most/all was in European Russia anyway.

foxinsoxuk said:

Is there a link to the original survey in #22? Maybe rather a voodoo poll.

Remember also that more Brits (and French) died at Gallipoli than ANZACS.

I bet fewer still are aware of the battles in Tanganyika, Namibia Salonika and Mesopotamia involving other Commonwealth troops.

Charles said:

Re no #22, to be fair the Americans barely made it on time, although I'm sure that the Canadians made a good and valiant contribution.

And I'm rather pleased that we've managed to forget Gallipoli! The Brits have a rather bad habit of commemorating glorious defeats (Corunna, Dunkirk, Flores, etc)

Easterross

TheLastBoyScout said:

Easterross said:

TheLastBoyScout said:

Frankly the unionists have become a laughing stock. The strategy to deliberately create uncertainly is risible. No wonder Salmond wants a debate with Dave:

1. David, would you welcome an independent Scotland into Sterling?

Ooh, tricky, maybe, dunno.

2. David, would you support your good neighbour Scotland's membership of the EU?

Erm, maybe, maybe not, not sure, perhaps.

3. David, would you welcome open borders with your neighbour and trading partner?

Erm...

(I say all this as a unionist)

I suspect that even though he might want to say yes to all 3, there will be such an anti-Scottish fervour south of the Border post a Yes vote that he will be forced to say no to all 3.

I don't think that at all. I think Scots are generally well liked in England and should they vote for independence some of us will be a bit sad about it but will wish them and their new nation state well.

I hope you are correct but I fear that to "put backbone" into the English negotiators, people like Boris and Nigel Farage will turn up the "Scots are scroungers" rhetoric. Neither gentleman is particularly well liked in Scotland. We will also I suspect see the vengeance of the Labour Party which will be the biggest loser on both sides of the new international border.

Scott_P

TheLastBoyScout said:

The difference is they have something else to say - a vision, something positive. We have focused on technocratic stuff and deliberately trying to create uncertainly which fools no-one. We might yet win the election, but we are losing the campaign.

The "vision" Eck is peddling is everything exactly the same, but better cos it won't have any English in it.

That's not positive, it's not even rational. Some people are buying it though.

JohnLilburne

TheLastBoyScout said:

YouGov is 39/34

Yawn.

the average Labour opinion poll lead has slipped to about 4.5, it was 6.5 not so long ago. So some movement.

Richard_Tyndall

Very good documentary just shown on BBC2 Scotland outlining the issues around the Independence referendum, giving an overview and explaining in what appeared to me to be an admirably neutral way what it was all about and what the arguments are from each side.

PBModerator

Hugh/Isam.

Don't interact with each other as your conversations aren't interesting nor are they productive.

TheLastBoyScout

Scott_P said:

TheLastBoyScout said:

The difference is they have something else to say - a vision, something positive. We have focused on technocratic stuff and deliberately trying to create uncertainly which fools no-one. We might yet win the election, but we are losing the campaign.

The "vision" Eck is peddling is everything exactly the same, but better cos it won't have any English in it.

That's not positive, it's not even rational. Some people are buying it though.

He is creating a positive vision of a brave new nation state - that is a romantic idea. You and I may not wish to see it, but that's not the same thing. No is underestimating its opponent. Time to shape up.

Scott_P

@hopisen: You didn't know, but today was first "have you ever cleaned up your mother's piss?" Day. It's all party plan to restore trust in politics.

compouter2

TheLastBoyScout said:

YouGov is 39/34

Yawn.

http://sonyanancysims.com/myPictures/Animals/squirrel laughing.gif

Sshhhh.....don't mention it.

Mick_Pork

Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 1h

Cameron: "Money is no object". "We are a wealthy country" Two hostages to fortune in future austerity debates?

"There is no money left".

"We're all in this together".

There's PR and then there's incompetent fop PR.

compouter2

PBModerator said:

Hugh/Isam.

Don't interact with each other as your conversations aren't interesting.......

BIG LOL!

TheLastBoyScout

JohnLilburne said:

Hugh said:

JohnLilburne said:

Hugh said:

nigel4england said:

isam said:

This behaviour sounds rather familiar

"But I wonder what Mr Alexander would make of the behaviour of the red rosette-wearing activists in Sale screaming into the face of Ukip-supporting pensioners, calling them “Nazi racist scum”? And will he back the view of his fellow party members who warned Ukip supporters who have boards up in their garden that they must be taken down because, “They’re our houses, they’re council houses”."

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/nigel-farage-the-wythenshawe-byelection-has-been-as-dirty-as-they-come-9122243.html

Charming.

And looking at charmless Hugh's response it just emphasises that people like him are the true fascists.

Is it acceptable to call fellow posters "fascists" on PB?

No, but when you condone calling Ukip supporters "Nazi", "racist" and "scum" you do rather invite it.

I think it's fair enough that members of the voting public should be allowed to express whatever opinion they want about UKIP voters, and even better if they are correct.

You're not so keen on being called a fascist though. Why not? Most of us are voters here, yet when one of us suggests that your views make you a fascist, you run snivelling to the mods. Yet you think it is OK to scream worse insults at people in the street

It's fine to express an opinion, but what has been described by Farage surely violates the law: behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace.

And as for it being correct... well, some Kippers might be racists as are some members of all political parties. Scum and Nazi... no. You might believe that believing in restricting immigration makes someone a racist, but if so you are clearly a donkey orifice in my opinion.

And you are beetle semen, Nigel is a horse's fart and Hugh is the diseased urine of a Great Dane.

Or we could discuss politics.

isam

PBModerator said:

Hugh/Isam.

Don't interact with each other as your conversations aren't interesting nor are they productive.

Me???!!

He has implied I am racist, says I have "nasty far right views", BNP lite, relentlessly provokes me with this odd disbelief that my mates are electricians, to which I don't react, laughs at pensioners being caledd nazi scum, and you put me in the same bracket???!

Unreal!

Scott_P

TheLastBoyScout said:

He is creating a positive vision of a brave new nation state -

Except he isn't...

The is brave new Nation State will share someone elses's Head of State, Currency, Borders, Embassies, LOLR,...

It's the LEAST brave birth of a Nation in history.

It's a childrens' comfort blanket nation state. Everything you know and cherish will be just the same. Without the English.

Carola

Must have missed this big story the other day what with the flooding and all:

http://www.dorkingandleatherheadadvertiser.co.uk/Chicken-cleaned-Michael-Portillo/story-20567185-detail/story.html

Carnyx

Easterross said:

TheLastBoyScout said:

Easterross said:

TheLastBoyScout said:

Frankly the unionists have become a laughing stock. The strategy to deliberately create uncertainly is risible. No wonder Salmond wants a debate with Dave:

1. David, would you welcome an independent Scotland into Sterling?

Ooh, tricky, maybe, dunno.

2. David, would you support your good neighbour Scotland's membership of the EU?

Erm, maybe, maybe not, not sure, perhaps.

3. David, would you welcome open borders with your neighbour and trading partner?

Erm...

(I say all this as a unionist)

I suspect that even though he might want to say yes to all 3, there will be such an anti-Scottish fervour south of the Border post a Yes vote that he will be forced to say no to all 3.

I don't think that at all. I think Scots are generally well liked in England and should they vote for independence some of us will be a bit sad about it but will wish them and their new nation state well.

I hope you are correct but I fear that to "put backbone" into the English negotiators, people like Boris and Nigel Farage will turn up the "Scots are scroungers" rhetoric. Neither gentleman is particularly well liked in Scotland. We will also I suspect see the vengeance of the Labour Party which will be the biggest loser on both sides of the new international border.

If the Scots were indeed scroungers, then they ought to be pleased to see us go - and lubricate the way with interim arrangements, doubtless intended to impose severe fiscal restrictions (of precisely the kind Mr Swinney is already more than used to: remember the SNP are the one major party in Scotland who practice proper fiscal rectitude and do not indulge in PFI/PPP).

But yes, logic is not all ... I'm inclined to share your fears, and to feel that in that situation the Labour Party, or perhaps rather its soon to be Scottish ex-MPs, may feel they have nothing to lose by trying to wreck things. You may recall that Mr Ian Davidson MP has already demanded very publicly that the MoD pull all shipbuilding orders from Glasgow if there is a Yes vote. A remarkable policy to put it mildly, making one's own constituents hostages to one's continuing salary and perquisites at the House of Commons. And that was quite some time ago!

TheLastBoyScout

Richard_Tyndall said:

Very good documentary just shown on BBC2 Scotland outlining the issues around the Independence referendum, giving an overview and explaining in what appeared to me to be an admirably neutral way what it was all about and what the arguments are from each side.

What was it called Richard? Presumably it's available on iPlayer in England?

Thank you for the recommendation.

PBModerator

isam said:

PBModerator said:

Hugh/Isam.

Don't interact with each other as your conversations aren't interesting nor are they productive.

Me???!!

He has implied I am racist, says I have "nasty far right views", BNP lite, relentlessly provokes me with this odd disbelief that my mates are electricians, to which I don't react, laughs at pensioners being caledd nazi scum, and you put me in the same bracket???!

Unreal!

As we said, it's unproductive and uninteresting, move on.

Scott_P

Richard_Tyndall said:

Very good documentary just shown on BBC2 Scotland outlining the issues around the Independence referendum, giving an overview and explaining in what appeared to me to be an admirably neutral way what it was all about and what the arguments are from each side.

There was also one on News 24 called "5 million ways to be Scottish" including the claim that Morris Dancing is a Scottish invention

Mick_Pork

TheLastBoyScout said:

Scott_P said:

TheLastBoyScout said:

The difference is they have something else to say - a vision, something positive. We have focused on technocratic stuff and deliberately trying to create uncertainly which fools no-one. We might yet win the election, but we are losing the campaign.

The "vision" Eck is peddling is everything exactly the same, but better cos it won't have any English in it.

That's not positive, it's not even rational. Some people are buying it though.

He is creating a positive vision of a brave new nation state - that is a romantic idea. You and I may not wish to see it, but that's not the same thing. No is underestimating its opponent. Time to shape up.

The scottish tory surgers have a foolproof 'master strategy' though. After spending all this time whining about Independence they'll try to pretend that it isn't Independent enough.

It's so 'brilliant' it could have been dreamed up by the same witless fools who praised Osbrowne's omnishambles to the skies as it all fell to pieces around them.

isam

PBModerator said:

isam said:

PBModerator said:

Hugh/Isam.

Don't interact with each other as your conversations aren't interesting nor are they productive.

Me???!!

He has implied I am racist, says I have "nasty far right views", BNP lite, relentlessly provokes me with this odd disbelief that my mates are electricians, to which I don't react, laughs at pensioners being caledd nazi scum, and you put me in the same bracket???!

Unreal!

As we said, it's unproductive and uninteresting, move on.

I agree with you on that.

TheLastBoyScout

JohnLilburne said:

TheLastBoyScout said:

YouGov is 39/34

Yawn.

the average Labour opinion poll lead has slipped to about 4.5, it was 6.5 not so long ago. So some movement.

The table on link 8 (men and women) shows that it has been absolutely static for months on end - has not budged at all. It's remarkable

compouter2

TheLastBoyScout said:

JohnLilburne said:

TheLastBoyScout said:

YouGov is 39/34

Yawn.

the average Labour opinion poll lead has slipped to about 4.5, it was 6.5 not so long ago. So some movement.

The table on link 8 (men and women) shows that it has been absolutely static for months on end - has not budged at all. It's remarkable

There is always one that has to bring facts into everything....either get with the agreed line, or you will be Hodged.

JohnLilburne

Scott_P said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Very good documentary just shown on BBC2 Scotland outlining the issues around the Independence referendum, giving an overview and explaining in what appeared to me to be an admirably neutral way what it was all about and what the arguments are from each side.

There was also one on News 24 called "5 million ways to be Scottish" including the claim that Morris Dancing is a Scottish invention

That's OK, we can hit back with the claim that Haggis is English.

Scott_P

JohnLilburne said:

That's OK, we can hit back with the claim that Haggis is English.

Another English institution Eck wants to maintain in his Brave New Nation State...

AndyJS

Tony Benn believed to be seriously ill in hospital:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tony-benn-fears-grow-seriously-3134955

JosiasJessop

Mrs J has a new French colleague, and he and his girlfriend are feeling a bit lonely after their move to civilisation. In order to foster good international relations, we invited them over for a meal this evening.

I managed to make it to dessert before calling them cheese-eating surrender monkeys. I'm rather proud of my British restraint. ;-)

Carnyx

Mick_Pork said:

TheLastBoyScout said:

Scott_P said:

TheLastBoyScout said:

The difference is they have something else to say - a vision, something positive. We have focused on technocratic stuff and deliberately trying to create uncertainly which fools no-one. We might yet win the election, but we are losing the campaign.

The "vision" Eck is peddling is everything exactly the same, but better cos it won't have any English in it.

That's not positive, it's not even rational. Some people are buying it though.

He is creating a positive vision of a brave new nation state - that is a romantic idea. You and I may not wish to see it, but that's not the same thing. No is underestimating its opponent. Time to shape up.

The scottish tory surgers have a foolproof 'master strategy' though. After spending all this time whining about Independence they'll try to pretend that it isn't Independent enough.

It's so 'brilliant' it could have been dreamed up by the same witless fools who praised Osbrowne's omnishambles to the skies as it all fell to pieces around them.

Oh, Mr Pork, be fair! Ms Lamont was also recently in the rather odd position of complaining that Mr Salmond wasn't independent-minded enough as I seem to recall.

NickPalmer

FWIW I don't think it's a good idea for anyone to scream at voters of any persuasion, or for posters here to do it either.

foxinsoxuk said:

That sort of intimidatory behaviour is unlikely to win over wavering voters. Sometimes I wonder if canvassers do more home than good. I remember canvassing for Labour in 1997 with some very New Labour folk, but also some unreformed unilateralist militants in the target seat of Loughborough. Enthusiastic though they were, I think they struggled to win over many waverers. Perhaps the canvass data and GOTV effects of the longstanding supporters was the point. I found the whole experience quite thought provoking, not least how amateurish it all was. The opposition was worse though, hardly campaigned at all as far as we could tell.

Hugh said:

screaming into the face of Ukip-supporting pensioners, calling them “Nazi racist scum”?

Seems fair enough.

I once went canvassing with a superkeen guy (not left-wing, just keen) who just wouln't take Yes for an answer. I remember one classic exchange:

Voter: Yeah, I'll vote for you, you do a good job.
Assistant: You are SO right! Voting Labour will transform your prospects! You're a student, right?
Voter (looking faintly alarmed): Er, yes.
Assistant: Well, Labour will completely revamp university education, making it FAR more accessible to ordinary working people, FAR more relevant to later life. I am SO pleased you will vote Labour.
Voter: Um, I'm not so sure now.

He was unrepentant as we walked away, "It's very important to nail down these votes, y'know."

Personally I like canvassing in a small group of 4-5 trusted colleagues so I can keep track of what's happening and wander over when someone actually answers the door. That does, I think, work at the margins (you hear the "Well, at least I've met you, unlike the other lot" phrase a lot), as well as of course helping GOTV. But you can lose votes too...

Easterross

JohnLilburne said:

Scott_P said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Very good documentary just shown on BBC2 Scotland outlining the issues around the Independence referendum, giving an overview and explaining in what appeared to me to be an admirably neutral way what it was all about and what the arguments are from each side.

There was also one on News 24 called "5 million ways to be Scottish" including the claim that Morris Dancing is a Scottish invention

That's OK, we can hit back with the claim that Haggis is English.

Sadly I fear both appear to be true and indeed football was "invented" in Scotland as it was played at the court of Mary Stuart in Holyrood and Stirling. Would be happy to reclaim haggis in exchange for Morris dancing.

Mick_Pork

TheLastBoyScout said:

JohnLilburne said:

TheLastBoyScout said:

YouGov is 39/34

Yawn.

the average Labour opinion poll lead has slipped to about 4.5, it was 6.5 not so long ago. So some movement.

The table on link 8 (men and women) shows that it has been absolutely static for months on end - has not budged at all. It's remarkable

Since about September last year for the tories and kippers and last May for Labour.
The kipper immobility is the most surprising since the start of the year was expected to be ideal for them after January's Bulgarian and Romanian 'exodus' and now a farcical shambles over blame for the floods. Yet they still aren't really going up. Plenty of time yet before May of course but it's still very curious.

Carnyx

Scott_P said:

TheLastBoyScout said:

He is creating a positive vision of a brave new nation state -

Except he isn't...

The is brave new Nation State will share someone elses's Head of State, Currency, Borders, Embassies, LOLR,...

It's the LEAST brave birth of a Nation in history.

It's a childrens' comfort blanket nation state. Everything you know and cherish will be just the same. Without the English.

Er, why should we bother with sorting out something anew when we already own it (or more precisely a share of it, negotiable as it may be one way or another)? It's called common sense, prudence and minimal disruption (relatively).

Mick_Pork

Hugh said:

JohnLilburne said:

Scott_P said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Very good documentary just shown on BBC2 Scotland outlining the issues around the Independence referendum, giving an overview and explaining in what appeared to me to be an admirably neutral way what it was all about and what the arguments are from each side.

There was also one on News 24 called "5 million ways to be Scottish" including the claim that Morris Dancing is a Scottish invention

That's OK, we can hit back with the claim that Haggis is English.

Jesus.

Do those in favour keeping the UK as it is even realise that every time they "debate" the issue mentioning Haggis, Braveheart, Deep Fried Mars Bars, you know the stuff, they are moving Scottish Independence incrementally closer?

It's not just here, though God knows it's bad enough here. But you see it in the national media too.

They can't help themselves.

Easterross

Mick_Pork said:

TheLastBoyScout said:

Scott_P said:

TheLastBoyScout said:

The difference is they have something else to say - a vision, something positive. We have focused on technocratic stuff and deliberately trying to create uncertainly which fools no-one. We might yet win the election, but we are losing the campaign.

The "vision" Eck is peddling is everything exactly the same, but better cos it won't have any English in it.

That's not positive, it's not even rational. Some people are buying it though.

He is creating a positive vision of a brave new nation state - that is a romantic idea. You and I may not wish to see it, but that's not the same thing. No is underestimating its opponent. Time to shape up.

The scottish tory surgers have a foolproof 'master strategy' though. After spending all this time whining about Independence they'll try to pretend that it isn't Independent enough.

It's so 'brilliant' it could have been dreamed up by the same witless fools who praised Osbrowne's omnishambles to the skies as it all fell to pieces around them.

My dear Mick, it will be the likes of the Scottish Tory surgers as you describe us and the Tartan Tories in the SNP who will have to take on the task of negotiating a sensible settlement with rUK while the Scottish left go into a full scale panic at what they have created. The only way an independent Scotland would retain the confidence of the international money markets would be if the centre-right economic policy followed by the SNP for the past 7 years continues under Tartan Tories like Messrs Swinney and Ewing.

Scott_P

Carnyx said:

Er, why should we bother with sorting out something anew

The preceding claim was that Eck had a vision of a Brave New something. He doesn't, and you appear to agree.

Carnyx said:

It's called common sense, prudence and minimal disruption

Maintaining the Union, as it's also known

JosiasJessop

FluffyThoughts said:

FPT:

Anyone thinking that the through-life costs of Dave-B are excessive had better look closer to defence contracts:

• Cronie Blair spent £2-billion on 'buying-in' and giving away BAe-Systems' technology for the JSF/JCA,
  
• Look at Gormless McBruin's Voyager PFI via the Bank-of-Scotland (and do the maths), and
  
• The Right Dishonourable Total Hoon had some strange dealings with Berlusconi's Finmeccanica; Who employs him now...?
  

Dave-B - Lightening-II is an Americanism (please note Al-Beeb) - is the only show in town. Thanks Labour (especially "Lord" West)....

From what I've read, the Voyager's a good plane, but the PFI scheme is madness. Even the NAO thinks it is ruinous value for money.

Hoon is the Labour minister I would most like to see hanging from a tree. He was hideously incompetent. In fact, when was the last time we had a good defence minister of any political persuasion?

AlastairMeeks

NickPalmer said:

FWIW I don't think it's a good idea for anyone to scream at voters of any persuasion, or for posters here to do it either.

foxinsoxuk said:

That sort of intimidatory behaviour is unlikely to win over wavering voters. Sometimes I wonder if canvassers do more home than good. I remember canvassing for Labour in 1997 with some very New Labour folk, but also some unreformed unilateralist militants in the target seat of Loughborough. Enthusiastic though they were, I think they struggled to win over many waverers. Perhaps the canvass data and GOTV effects of the longstanding supporters was the point. I found the whole experience quite thought provoking, not least how amateurish it all was. The opposition was worse though, hardly campaigned at all as far as we could tell.

Hugh said:

screaming into the face of Ukip-supporting pensioners, calling them “Nazi racist scum”?

Seems fair enough.

I once went canvassing with a superkeen guy (not left-wing, just keen) who just wouln't take Yes for an answer. I remember one classic exchange:

Voter: Yeah, I'll vote for you, you do a good job.
Assistant: You are SO right! Voting Labour will transform your prospects! You're a student, right?
Voter (looking faintly alarmed): Er, yes.
Assistant: Well, Labour will completely revamp university education, making it FAR more accessible to ordinary working people, FAR more relevant to later life. I am SO pleased you will vote Labour.
Voter: Um, I'm not so sure now.

He was unrepentant as we walked away, "It's very important to nail down these votes, y'know."

Personally I like canvassing in a small group of 4-5 trusted colleagues so I can keep track of what's happening and wander over when someone actually answers the door. That does, I think, work at the margins (you hear the "Well, at least I've met you, unlike the other lot" phrase a lot), as well as of course helping GOTV. But you can lose votes too...

I'd welcome you reconsidering your misrepresentation of my views.

JohnLilburne

JosiasJessop said:

I managed to make it to dessert before calling them cheese-eating surrender monkeys. I'm rather proud of my British restraint. ;-)

Is that because, as you served the pudding, they wondered where the cheese had got to?

Carnyx

Hugh said:

JohnLilburne said:

Scott_P said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Very good documentary just shown on BBC2 Scotland outlining the issues around the Independence referendum, giving an overview and explaining in what appeared to me to be an admirably neutral way what it was all about and what the arguments are from each side.

There was also one on News 24 called "5 million ways to be Scottish" including the claim that Morris Dancing is a Scottish invention

That's OK, we can hit back with the claim that Haggis is English.

Jesus.

Do those in favour keeping the UK as it is even realise that every time they "debate" the issue mentioning Haggis, Braveheart, Deep Fried Mars Bars, you know the stuff, they are moving Scottish Independence incrementally closer?

It's not just here, though God knows it's bad enough here. But you see it in the national media too.

He's quite right. One poster this evening seemed to be referring to Braveheart, and other regular flavours are Bannockburn and Buckie tonic wine.

Apart from anything else, after a good few years of it, it's booring to us types of our ilk, and no doubt to some of the other posters.

I could go on about morris dancing if I wanted, but why should I? I think it's wonderful - sitting outside a country pub with a pint of local ale, with dancers in the yard, is one of my favourite occupations of all time.

Mick_Pork

Easterross said:

My dear Mick, it will be the likes of the Scottish Tory surgers as you describe us and the Tartan Tories in the SNP who will have to take on the task of negotiating a sensible settlement with rUK

That tartan tories nonsense certainly worked well for Labour in 2011, didn't it?
Result -SNP landslide.

As for the amusing idea of Cammie's 'mighty' negotiating prowess, you'll be sure to mention that the next time he loses something as crucial to his electoral fortunes as Boundary Changes to the hopeless Clegg. Or when he has another pointless Veto flounce. Or when his backbenchers inevitably humiliate him again because they don't trust his Cast Iron Pledges whatsoever.

DavidBrackenbury

24. What if JRR Tolkien had worked in advertising?

One does not simply walk into a job in advertising.

Sorry!

TheScreamingEagles

Carnyx said:

Hugh said:

JohnLilburne said:

Scott_P said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Very good documentary just shown on BBC2 Scotland outlining the issues around the Independence referendum, giving an overview and explaining in what appeared to me to be an admirably neutral way what it was all about and what the arguments are from each side.

There was also one on News 24 called "5 million ways to be Scottish" including the claim that Morris Dancing is a Scottish invention

That's OK, we can hit back with the claim that Haggis is English.

Jesus.

Do those in favour keeping the UK as it is even realise that every time they "debate" the issue mentioning Haggis, Braveheart, Deep Fried Mars Bars, you know the stuff, they are moving Scottish Independence incrementally closer?

It's not just here, though God knows it's bad enough here. But you see it in the national media too.

He's quite right. One poster this evening seemed to be referring to Braveheart, and other regular flavours are Bannockburn and Buckie tonic wine.

Apart from anything else, after a good few years of it, it's booring to us types of our ilk, and no doubt to some of the other posters.

I could go on about morris dancing if I wanted, but why should I? I think it's wonderful - sitting outside a country pub with a pint of local ale, with dancers in the yard, is one of my favourite occupations of all time.

Can I say, every time I go to Scotland, I'm disappointed that I've seen no one that looks or dresses like C U Jimmy.

I'm hoping it changes for my visit next month.

Carnyx

Scott_P said:

Carnyx said:

Er, why should we bother with sorting out something anew

The preceding claim was that Eck had a vision of a Brave New something. He doesn't, and you appear to agree.

Carnyx said:

It's called common sense, prudence and minimal disruption

Maintaining the Union, as it's also known

There's a difference between being static, and gradual movement, as one Charles Darwin knew very well. Creationists could never understand why he (more or less) started Origin of Species with a chapter on pigeon breeding. There is also a difference between where one starts, and where one ends. And there is a lot more to independence than currency (notwithstanding its importance).

JohnLilburne

Easterross said:

JohnLilburne said:

Scott_P said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Very good documentary just shown on BBC2 Scotland outlining the issues around the Independence referendum, giving an overview and explaining in what appeared to me to be an admirably neutral way what it was all about and what the arguments are from each side.

There was also one on News 24 called "5 million ways to be Scottish" including the claim that Morris Dancing is a Scottish invention

That's OK, we can hit back with the claim that Haggis is English.

Sadly I fear both appear to be true and indeed football was "invented" in Scotland as it was played at the court of Mary Stuart in Holyrood and Stirling. Would be happy to reclaim haggis in exchange for Morris dancing.

Robert May's The Accomplisht Cook (1865) has four recipes for Haggas Pudding, two made with oatmeal or oat groats, two made with breadcrumbs as the mixer.

Scott_P

On the floods, Ed Miliband has not had such a good day. He donned his wellies and got shouted at. Being leader of the opposition in these situations is hopeless. Visit and some people will ask why you – you metropolitan scumbag – are there. Don't visit and stay in your office in London and the same people will ask why you – you metropolitan muppet – ignored those in distress.

But close your eyes. Can you imagine Ed Miliband out there leading the response to these floods? In a way, I just about can. I've long said that the numbers (the fall of the Lib Dems and the rise of Ukip) are with him, and he should not be underestimated. Even as he moves further and further to the left, the electoral advantage remains his.

But as the election draws near he has a problem. Increasingly some voters will concentrate on the binary choice of Miliband v Cameron. Does Miliband fit standing in front of the famous door of Number 10, or visiting emergency services, or chairing a crisis meeting? Do you really think he would be doing a better job this week than David Cameron? Do you?

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/iainmartin1/100259185/does-anyone-think-ed-miliband-would-be-doing-a-better-job-of-handling-the-floods/

JohnLilburne

Hugh said:

JohnLilburne said:

Scott_P said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Very good documentary just shown on BBC2 Scotland outlining the issues around the Independence referendum, giving an overview and explaining in what appeared to me to be an admirably neutral way what it was all about and what the arguments are from each side.

There was also one on News 24 called "5 million ways to be Scottish" including the claim that Morris Dancing is a Scottish invention

That's OK, we can hit back with the claim that Haggis is English.

Jesus.

Do those in favour keeping the UK as it is even realise that every time they "debate" the issue mentioning Haggis, Braveheart, Deep Fried Mars Bars, you know the stuff, they are moving Scottish Independence incrementally closer?

It's not just here, though God knows it's bad enough here. But you see it in the national media too.

You are probably right, but as I'm neutral on Scottish seperatism, I think it is reasonable to stand on the sidelines and wind them up.

AndyJS

Interesting fact: around 2 million voters from 2010 will have died by the time of the 2015 election. That's about 7% of total voters.

HYUFD

Previous thread - It looks like this decade will have 3 momentous referendums, on electoral reform, Scottish Independence and the EU. It could well be that they are all defeated, but by progressively narrow margins, with AV defeated resoundingly, Independence comfortably and EU withdrawal by a hairsbreadth!

AlastairMeeks

HYUFD said:

Previous thread - It looks like this decade will have 3 momentous referendums, on electoral reform, Scottish Independence and the EU. It could well be that they are all defeated, but by progressively narrow margins, with AV defeated resoundingly, Independence comfortably and EU withdrawal by a hairsbreadth!

Or all three defeated resoundingly.