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Biden now a 40% betting chance of winning WH2 – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,216
edited August 2023 in General
imageBiden now a 40% betting chance of winning WH2 – politicalbetting.com

By far the biggest betting market over the next fifteen months will be the one above – who is going to win WH2024 and as can be seen from the chart Biden is now a 40% chance.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    A shame the founding fathers omitted an upper age limit from the constitution
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,922
    edited August 2023
    2nd Like sleepy Joe?

    If Twump is to be The Prisoner, let him not be number 6.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Andy Street doing good work.

    The Crooked House will not be consigned to history on our watch.

    Full statement from
    @alex__claridge
    & I following our meeting with South Staffordshire District Council👇🏻

    https://twitter.com/andy4wm/status/1689966537761820672?s=20
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,778
    I don't understand the odds on the other three. You are literally betting on whether Biden or Trump will die in the next 18 months because that’s the only way one of those two isn't going to be POTUS at the end of Jan '24.
  • .


    UK GDP growth 1960-1979: 80%.
    UK GDP growth 1980-1999: 52%.
    UK GDP growth 2000-2019: 43%.

    Those figures are meaningless unless you compare them with our European peers.

    Why only European peers? What about Canada, Australia, USA and other developed English speaking peer nations?

    Of course what the figures from @OnlyLivingBoy show is that GDP growth (esp per capita considering 8 million population growth in final period) was highest pre-EEC, moderately high in the EEC and utterly collapsed in the period we were in the EU.

    Which was replicated around western Europe, which is why western Europe was the single largest market in the world in the 80s, larger than America, but dropping down to 4th largest now and sinking still. What could possibly have caused western Europe to stagnate for decades now while the rest of the developed world grows?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,899
    I was listening to a guy the other day who argued that the No Labels organisation was likely to run a third candidate who would take votes from Biden disproportionately (eg from Never Trump Republicans) and gift the election to Trump by flipping key swing states. I haven't heard this argument elsewhere so DYOR but it sounded quite plausible and alarming to me.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,232
    Apols for the off topic so soon.

    As part of my series of parish-councils- are-a-menace series of posts, I offer this for your delectation. (Apologies for the length, I’ve split it in two.)

    Two weeks ago I was tipped off that a parish council meeting in a neighbouring village would be worth attending as parishioners were sharpening their pitchforks.

    Bear in mind that this village is very small and the properties are all residential and top-end – it is one of the most desirable villages in the county. Rural, beautifully comatose and with no businesses except for one stables on the fringe.

    The parish has been notified of a plan to convert a residential property to a care home for children. OMG. Pitchforks are gleaming.

    Turns out that a particular property was up for rent and an organisation which runs childrens’ homes has rented it on the assumption of being granted planning position (change of use). The property is a £1.5M detached house with four bedrooms and very small garden.

    Two concerns were raised, the first being around the influx of children in social care. Four bedrooms, it was assumed, may imply 8 children. However, this is how the business’s representative (present at the meeting) explained it:

    There is a shortage of residences for troubled children, children who have undergone trauma including sexual or other serious harm and which social services have removed from the parents. The children would be between 7 and 17 years old. The business would staff the home, involving six full-time staff, purely for that house, working shifts in 24-48 hours stints plus a part-time manager. Two cars would be purchased for the staff to use for outings and suchlike. The property would, of course, be internally converted to satisfy health and safety requirements and regulatory inspections would take place. There would be no external alterations other than some garden work. The delinquent parents would not know where the children are located.

    Latching on the to shift system, a parishioner asked: Where do the staff sleep?

    Rep: In the house.

    Parishioner: But it is only a four bedroomed house.

    Rep: Yes, two of the bedrooms will be staff bedrooms and two for the children

    Parishioner: Oh. So only four children then?

    Rep: No . Two. There can only be one child per room.

    The heat in the room cools significantly on the revelation that only two children at a time will be resident.

    1/2
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited August 2023
    So Liverpool said they couldn't afford Jude Bellingham, but are now going to spend even more on Mosises Caidcedo....

    Something has gone a bit pear shaped there.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,232
    2/2 Continuation:

    Attention turned to the second, more general, concern: why on earth was this eye-wateringly expensive and seemingly inappropriate village chosen? Surely a cheaper and larger location would be more appropriate economically? Parishioners were struggling with the maths. Some are smart cookies.

    Parishioner: This makes no sense economically.

    Rep: There is only a small profit margin and details are commercially confidential.

    Parishioner: Are you a charity? I guess you fund this partly from donations?

    Rep: No we are a private business. We have no donations. The only funding we have is council-funding.

    Parishioner: Then what aren’t you telling us? 6 F/T staff plus 1 P/T plus 2 cars plus upkeep and other costs, plus insurance plus the commercial rent of a 1.5M house at £50k pa? For 2 children? The council pay? You are kidding us?
    Etc Etc

    The parishioners left the meeting feeling bewildered about the economics of it rather than being overly concerned about the change of use. What was being concealed?


    I’ve been mulling this over for two weeks now. I reckon this property will cost £0.5M pa to run, purely council-funded.

    For two children.

    We often talk of the cost of nursing homes for the elderly. We need to pay attention to child social care costs. It is no wonder that councils are going bust.

    See below:
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/28/councils-england-wales-pay-1m-pounds-a-year-to-house-child-in-private-care-home#:~:text=11 months old-,Councils in England and Wales pay £1m a year,child in private care home&text=More than 20 councils in,released to the Guardian shows.

    Comments?

    2/2
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,317
    Stocky said:

    2/2 Continuation:

    Attention turned to the second, more general, concern: why on earth was this eye-wateringly expensive and seemingly inappropriate village chosen? Surely a cheaper and larger location would be more appropriate economically? Parishioners were struggling with the maths. Some are smart cookies.

    Parishioner: This makes no sense economically.

    Rep: There is only a small profit margin and details are commercially confidential.

    Parishioner: Are you a charity? I guess you fund this partly from donations?

    Rep: No we are a private business. We have no donations. The only funding we have is council-funding.

    Parishioner: Then what aren’t you telling us? 6 F/T staff plus 1 P/T plus 2 cars plus upkeep and other costs, plus insurance plus the commercial rent of a 1.5M house at £50k pa? For 2 children? The council pay? You are kidding us?
    Etc Etc

    The parishioners left the meeting feeling bewildered about the economics of it rather than being overly concerned about the change of use. What was being concealed?


    I’ve been mulling this over for two weeks now. I reckon this property will cost £0.5M pa to run, purely council-funded.

    For two children.

    We often talk of the cost of nursing homes for the elderly. We need to pay attention to child social care costs. It is no wonder that councils are going bust.

    See below:
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/28/councils-england-wales-pay-1m-pounds-a-year-to-house-child-in-private-care-home#:~:text=11 months old-,Councils in England and Wales pay £1m a year,child in private care home&text=More than 20 councils in,released to the Guardian shows.

    Comments?

    2/2

    My comment is WTF?
    Where, approximately, is this?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,232

    Stocky said:

    2/2 Continuation:

    Attention turned to the second, more general, concern: why on earth was this eye-wateringly expensive and seemingly inappropriate village chosen? Surely a cheaper and larger location would be more appropriate economically? Parishioners were struggling with the maths. Some are smart cookies.

    Parishioner: This makes no sense economically.

    Rep: There is only a small profit margin and details are commercially confidential.

    Parishioner: Are you a charity? I guess you fund this partly from donations?

    Rep: No we are a private business. We have no donations. The only funding we have is council-funding.

    Parishioner: Then what aren’t you telling us? 6 F/T staff plus 1 P/T plus 2 cars plus upkeep and other costs, plus insurance plus the commercial rent of a 1.5M house at £50k pa? For 2 children? The council pay? You are kidding us?
    Etc Etc

    The parishioners left the meeting feeling bewildered about the economics of it rather than being overly concerned about the change of use. What was being concealed?


    I’ve been mulling this over for two weeks now. I reckon this property will cost £0.5M pa to run, purely council-funded.

    For two children.

    We often talk of the cost of nursing homes for the elderly. We need to pay attention to child social care costs. It is no wonder that councils are going bust.

    See below:
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/28/councils-england-wales-pay-1m-pounds-a-year-to-house-child-in-private-care-home#:~:text=11 months old-,Councils in England and Wales pay £1m a year,child in private care home&text=More than 20 councils in,released to the Guardian shows.

    Comments?

    2/2

    My comment is WTF?
    Where, approximately, is this?
    In the Midlands. I'm horrified, I admit. I assure you that everything I have written is true.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,778
    Stocky said:

    2/2 Continuation:

    Attention turned to the second, more general, concern: why on earth was this eye-wateringly expensive and seemingly inappropriate village chosen? Surely a cheaper and larger location would be more appropriate economically? Parishioners were struggling with the maths. Some are smart cookies.

    Parishioner: This makes no sense economically.

    Rep: There is only a small profit margin and details are commercially confidential.

    Parishioner: Are you a charity? I guess you fund this partly from donations?

    Rep: No we are a private business. We have no donations. The only funding we have is council-funding.

    Parishioner: Then what aren’t you telling us? 6 F/T staff plus 1 P/T plus 2 cars plus upkeep and other costs, plus insurance plus the commercial rent of a 1.5M house at £50k pa? For 2 children? The council pay? You are kidding us?
    Etc Etc

    The parishioners left the meeting feeling bewildered about the economics of it rather than being overly concerned about the change of use. What was being concealed?


    I’ve been mulling this over for two weeks now. I reckon this property will cost £0.5M pa to run, purely council-funded.

    For two children.

    We often talk of the cost of nursing homes for the elderly. We need to pay attention to child social care costs. It is no wonder that councils are going bust.

    See below:
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/28/councils-england-wales-pay-1m-pounds-a-year-to-house-child-in-private-care-home#:~:text=11 months old-,Councils in England and Wales pay £1m a year,child in private care home&text=More than 20 councils in,released to the Guardian shows.

    Comments?

    2/2

    If you're veering off topic this early, at least make it interesting or funny. This was more boring than Leon's lunch going in and less funny than it coming out.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    .


    UK GDP growth 1960-1979: 80%.
    UK GDP growth 1980-1999: 52%.
    UK GDP growth 2000-2019: 43%.

    Those figures are meaningless unless you compare them with our European peers.

    Why only European peers? What about Canada, Australia, USA and other developed English speaking peer nations?

    Of course what the figures from @OnlyLivingBoy show is that GDP growth (esp per capita considering 8 million population growth in final period) was highest pre-EEC, moderately high in the EEC and utterly collapsed in the period we were in the EU.

    Which was replicated around western Europe, which is why western Europe was the single largest market in the world in the 80s, larger than America, but dropping down to 4th largest now and sinking still. What could possibly have caused western Europe to stagnate for decades now while the rest of the developed world grows?
    Because we are an European country. Being "English Speaking" does not denote anything at all other than a shared language. You don't find people in Portugal insisting on being compared with Brazil, or Spain with Argentina. We're primarily a European country and have been for millennia. You can't escape geography.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,466
    Stocky said:

    2/2 Continuation:

    Attention turned to the second, more general, concern: why on earth was this eye-wateringly expensive and seemingly inappropriate village chosen? Surely a cheaper and larger location would be more appropriate economically? Parishioners were struggling with the maths. Some are smart cookies.

    Parishioner: This makes no sense economically.

    Rep: There is only a small profit margin and details are commercially confidential.

    Parishioner: Are you a charity? I guess you fund this partly from donations?

    Rep: No we are a private business. We have no donations. The only funding we have is council-funding.

    Parishioner: Then what aren’t you telling us? 6 F/T staff plus 1 P/T plus 2 cars plus upkeep and other costs, plus insurance plus the commercial rent of a 1.5M house at £50k pa? For 2 children? The council pay? You are kidding us?
    Etc Etc

    The parishioners left the meeting feeling bewildered about the economics of it rather than being overly concerned about the change of use. What was being concealed?


    I’ve been mulling this over for two weeks now. I reckon this property will cost £0.5M pa to run, purely council-funded.

    For two children.

    We often talk of the cost of nursing homes for the elderly. We need to pay attention to child social care costs. It is no wonder that councils are going bust.

    See below:
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/28/councils-england-wales-pay-1m-pounds-a-year-to-house-child-in-private-care-home#:~:text=11 months old-,Councils in England and Wales pay £1m a year,child in private care home&text=More than 20 councils in,released to the Guardian shows.

    Comments?


    2/2

    Yes, this is entirely funded by the local council. The LD (learning disorders which is the short hand used - I suspect the children will have some fairly serious issues if they are 3-on-1) provider will agree a funding package on an individual basis what allows for a reasonable margin.

    It’s very expensive (packages can be multiple £k on a weekly basis). But cheaper and better for the kids than institutional care.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005

    So Liverpool said they couldn't afford Jude Bellingham, but are now going to spend even more on Mosises Caidcedo....

    Something has gone a bit pear shaped there.

    They unexpectedly got over £50M for Henderson and Fabinho. However, it looks like Caicedo only wants to go to Chelsea (who knows why). Liverpool now have a problem as they have revealed to the world that they have a spare £111M to spend.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,232
    Dura_Ace said:

    Stocky said:

    2/2 Continuation:

    Attention turned to the second, more general, concern: why on earth was this eye-wateringly expensive and seemingly inappropriate village chosen? Surely a cheaper and larger location would be more appropriate economically? Parishioners were struggling with the maths. Some are smart cookies.

    Parishioner: This makes no sense economically.

    Rep: There is only a small profit margin and details are commercially confidential.

    Parishioner: Are you a charity? I guess you fund this partly from donations?

    Rep: No we are a private business. We have no donations. The only funding we have is council-funding.

    Parishioner: Then what aren’t you telling us? 6 F/T staff plus 1 P/T plus 2 cars plus upkeep and other costs, plus insurance plus the commercial rent of a 1.5M house at £50k pa? For 2 children? The council pay? You are kidding us?
    Etc Etc

    The parishioners left the meeting feeling bewildered about the economics of it rather than being overly concerned about the change of use. What was being concealed?


    I’ve been mulling this over for two weeks now. I reckon this property will cost £0.5M pa to run, purely council-funded.

    For two children.

    We often talk of the cost of nursing homes for the elderly. We need to pay attention to child social care costs. It is no wonder that councils are going bust.

    See below:
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/28/councils-england-wales-pay-1m-pounds-a-year-to-house-child-in-private-care-home#:~:text=11 months old-,Councils in England and Wales pay £1m a year,child in private care home&text=More than 20 councils in,released to the Guardian shows.

    Comments?

    2/2

    If you're veering off topic this early, at least make it interesting or funny. This was more boring than Leon's lunch going in and less funny than it coming out.
    Apologies. Probably should have held back till later. Happy to leave the funny stuff to you DA.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,591
    Migrants being moved off Bibby Stockholm because of Legionnaires disease.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-66476538
  • DougSeal said:

    .


    UK GDP growth 1960-1979: 80%.
    UK GDP growth 1980-1999: 52%.
    UK GDP growth 2000-2019: 43%.

    Those figures are meaningless unless you compare them with our European peers.

    Why only European peers? What about Canada, Australia, USA and other developed English speaking peer nations?

    Of course what the figures from @OnlyLivingBoy show is that GDP growth (esp per capita considering 8 million population growth in final period) was highest pre-EEC, moderately high in the EEC and utterly collapsed in the period we were in the EU.

    Which was replicated around western Europe, which is why western Europe was the single largest market in the world in the 80s, larger than America, but dropping down to 4th largest now and sinking still. What could possibly have caused western Europe to stagnate for decades now while the rest of the developed world grows?
    Because we are an European country. Being "English Speaking" does not denote anything at all other than a shared language. You don't find people in Portugal insisting on being compared with Brazil, or Spain with Argentina. We're primarily a European country and have been for millennia. You can't escape geography.
    Being "English Speaking" absolutely does denote something, given that we live in a 21st century global planet where some of our largest exports are things that rely upon people understanding the English language.

    Such as music, literature, film, TV, the Premier League etc

    As well as of course business services etc.

    This is the 21st century. People in America can instantaneously stream Adelle music, people in Dubai can watch the Premier League live. People in Australia can watch Game of Thrones, filmed in Northern Ireland using mostly British actors in their own timezone since they'd be asleep when we or America watch it, but without waiting months for the tapes to be shipped over.

    If you think geography is all that matters, you belong back in the 1950s, and its no wonder such ideas from the 1950s aren't working in the 21st century.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,708
    edited August 2023
    All he has to do is not die.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,840

    Biden has been an effective President and a relief after the former guy.

    The problem being, of course, that almost nobody in America cares whether he's effective or not. It's reached the point where the two halves of the country hate each other so much that all they care about is that their guy is in power and not the one that the other lot wants. Hence Trump's chances of getting back in being rated so highly.

    You do wonder how much longer they can go on like this. The United States of Canada Vs Jesusland meme has never seemed so pertinent.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    Legionella on the Barge. Lee?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    edited August 2023
    The problem with "news" about Biden's possible stepping down is that it's utterly, utterly infested with the worst sort of wishcasting wish is actively misleading and unhelpful for punters.
    No market for a piece stating the likely truth that Biden will, in fact, probably stand. Far more for puff pieces hyping Newsom, Michelle Obama or whichever Democrat wannabe the journalist wants to promote.

    @Casino_Royale If he does die it'll be Harris.
  • kinabalu said:

    Legionella on the Barge. Lee?

    Would love to see the risk assessment for this.

    The did do a risk assessment, didn't they?
  • On the topic of Biden, he may be old, but he's had by far the most successful Presidency of the 21st century so far.

    He's done a sterling job in supporting Ukraine, and building cross-party support for that support over there (no mean thing to achieve, especially when Trump responded to Putin's latest invasion last year a "genius" move).

    He may be too old to realistically serve another 5.5 years from here, or he may not, but either way he has led America more adroitly and better than any of his 21st century predecessors. Including Obama, who was very weak on Putin too over Crimea and more.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Shocking video of a Russian cruise missile hitting a hotel yesterday. Kids ducking as they see it going overhead and strike very close by.

    Disturbing and frightening footage of the missile strike on the Reikartz hotel in Zaporizhzhia yesterday. Little children taking cover and in panic after a missile hit the hotel.
    https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1689974664817246208?s=20
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,840
    eek said:

    Migrants being moved off Bibby Stockholm because of Legionnaires disease.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-66476538

    The Government can't get anything right, chapter 67,345 in an ongoing series.
  • On the topic of Biden, he may be old, but he's had by far the most successful Presidency of the 21st century so far.

    He's done a sterling job in supporting Ukraine, and building cross-party support for that support over there (no mean thing to achieve, especially when Trump responded to Putin's latest invasion last year a "genius" move).

    He may be too old to realistically serve another 5.5 years from here, or he may not, but either way he has led America more adroitly and better than any of his 21st century predecessors. Including Obama, who was very weak on Putin too over Crimea and more.

    He may not be energetic, or necessarily clever.

    But he is shrewd, which is what matters most.

    It's a while since we've had a shrewd PM. Perhaps since Major.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,232
    I wonder whether they are tooling-up on the assumption that the other is running. If Trump pulled out would Biden follow, vice versa?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    "One thing that makes this less of an issue is that Trump, his likely opponent, is 77."

    But in the latest sign of there not being a God he looks robust and healthy.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,910
    edited August 2023
    Off topic

    Bibby Stockholm project running like clockwork I see.

    So some Tory MPs are demanding "pushback" is on the agenda again.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,138

    kinabalu said:

    Legionella on the Barge. Lee?

    Would love to see the risk assessment for this.

    The did do a risk assessment, didn't they?
    Well, they were testing for it. So presumably it was on the list of risks.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,317

    I was listening to a guy the other day who argued that the No Labels organisation was likely to run a third candidate who would take votes from Biden disproportionately (eg from Never Trump Republicans) and gift the election to Trump by flipping key swing states. I haven't heard this argument elsewhere so DYOR but it sounded quite plausible and alarming to me.

    RFK Jnr?

    There is absolutely no room for complacency about Biden’s prospects.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,300
    kinabalu said:

    "One thing that makes this less of an issue is that Trump, his likely opponent, is 77."

    But in the latest sign of there not being a God he looks robust and healthy.

    God must be messing with the air conditioning.

    https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1688997804528508928
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    edited August 2023
    eek said:

    Migrants being moved off Bibby Stockholm because of Legionnaires disease.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-66476538

    https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4441/13/16/2243#:~:text=In 70 (55.12%) hotel,the results of Legionella spp.

    Has all the various migrant hotel accommodation been checked ?

    Legionella spp. Colonization in Water Systems of Hotels Linked with Travel-Associated Legionnaires’ Disease

    During 2011–2016, Greece was among the countries with the highest proportions of accommodations associated with a TALD cluster (Italy = 42.6%, Spain = 17.1%, France = 14.6%, Greece = 7.6%) [12]. Unfortunately, it was not possible for the authors to associate epidemiological data for Legionnaires’ disease with environmental investigation results.
    Previous studies in Greek hotels that were not considered to be associated with Legionnaires’ disease cases have demonstrated Legionella colonization in hotels in Thessaly and Corfu in 2018, where 38 (75%) hotels were colonized by Legionella spp. [4]. Other studies revealed colonization rates of 86% in a 1989 study, 21% in 2007 in hotels across Greece, and 33% in hotels in southwest Greece [4,6]. This percentage is also comparable to three similar studies in Turkey, where colonization rates ranged between approximately 60% and 92% [13,14]. Moreover, equivalent surveys in hotels in Italy showed colonization rates varying between 60% and 75% [15,16,17].
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769

    Stocky said:

    2/2 Continuation:

    Attention turned to the second, more general, concern: why on earth was this eye-wateringly expensive and seemingly inappropriate village chosen? Surely a cheaper and larger location would be more appropriate economically? Parishioners were struggling with the maths. Some are smart cookies.

    Parishioner: This makes no sense economically.

    Rep: There is only a small profit margin and details are commercially confidential.

    Parishioner: Are you a charity? I guess you fund this partly from donations?

    Rep: No we are a private business. We have no donations. The only funding we have is council-funding.

    Parishioner: Then what aren’t you telling us? 6 F/T staff plus 1 P/T plus 2 cars plus upkeep and other costs, plus insurance plus the commercial rent of a 1.5M house at £50k pa? For 2 children? The council pay? You are kidding us?
    Etc Etc

    The parishioners left the meeting feeling bewildered about the economics of it rather than being overly concerned about the change of use. What was being concealed?


    I’ve been mulling this over for two weeks now. I reckon this property will cost £0.5M pa to run, purely council-funded.

    For two children.

    We often talk of the cost of nursing homes for the elderly. We need to pay attention to child social care costs. It is no wonder that councils are going bust.

    See below:
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/28/councils-england-wales-pay-1m-pounds-a-year-to-house-child-in-private-care-home#:~:text=11 months old-,Councils in England and Wales pay £1m a year,child in private care home&text=More than 20 councils in,released to the Guardian shows.

    Comments?

    2/2

    Hence the old joke that sending all the children in care to Eton and Winchester would be cheaper.
    Why? Haven't they suffered enough?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364

    kinabalu said:

    Legionella on the Barge. Lee?

    Would love to see the risk assessment for this.

    The did do a risk assessment, didn't they?
    Well, they were testing for it. So presumably it was on the list of risks.
    But not early enough?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,138

    Stocky said:

    2/2 Continuation:

    Attention turned to the second, more general, concern: why on earth was this eye-wateringly expensive and seemingly inappropriate village chosen? Surely a cheaper and larger location would be more appropriate economically? Parishioners were struggling with the maths. Some are smart cookies.

    Parishioner: This makes no sense economically.

    Rep: There is only a small profit margin and details are commercially confidential.

    Parishioner: Are you a charity? I guess you fund this partly from donations?

    Rep: No we are a private business. We have no donations. The only funding we have is council-funding.

    Parishioner: Then what aren’t you telling us? 6 F/T staff plus 1 P/T plus 2 cars plus upkeep and other costs, plus insurance plus the commercial rent of a 1.5M house at £50k pa? For 2 children? The council pay? You are kidding us?
    Etc Etc

    The parishioners left the meeting feeling bewildered about the economics of it rather than being overly concerned about the change of use. What was being concealed?


    I’ve been mulling this over for two weeks now. I reckon this property will cost £0.5M pa to run, purely council-funded.

    For two children.

    We often talk of the cost of nursing homes for the elderly. We need to pay attention to child social care costs. It is no wonder that councils are going bust.

    See below:
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/28/councils-england-wales-pay-1m-pounds-a-year-to-house-child-in-private-care-home#:~:text=11 months old-,Councils in England and Wales pay £1m a year,child in private care home&text=More than 20 councils in,released to the Guardian shows.

    Comments?

    2/2

    Hence the old joke that sending all the children in care to Eton and Winchester would be cheaper.
    The real reason for this is almost certainly like this. If you read the Winston Smith blog about working in a care home, care homes are one stop shopping for er.... taxi drivers.

    The problem was a combination of a number of children, no supervisory powers to stop them doing stuff and the local presence of unsavoury characters.

    So, setting up a (in effect) a family home in the middle of nowhere, for 2 children, *might* counteract these effects. It would certainly appear to be an attempt to doo the diametric opposite of previous efforts.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,920
    Mr Stocky said: "As part of my series of parish-councils-are-a-menace series of posts, I offer this for your delectation."

    How does this belong in a "parish-councils-are-a-menace" series, Mr Stocky? Surely the parish council has just convened a meeting of local inhabitants, who have come to find out what is happening.

    Unless you mean that the parish council is a threat to the working of the larger council responsible for the children, and to the profits of the rip-off business.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,300
    kinabalu said:

    Legionella on the Barge. Lee?

    The full cruise ship experience.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,138
    ClippP said:

    Mr Stocky said: "As part of my series of parish-councils-are-a-menace series of posts, I offer this for your delectation."

    How does this belong in a "parish-councils-are-a-menace" series, Mr Stocky? Surely the parish council has just convened a meeting of local inhabitants, who have come to find out what is happening.

    Unless you mean that the parish council is a threat to the working of the larger council responsible for the children, and to the profits of the rip-off business.

    See my post for why the council/care system may be doing this.

    It may well be a classic reaction to a previous problem.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,317
    We should absolutely compare ourselves with Canada etc.

    I would say there are different varieties of capitalism to compare ourselves against, and learn from. We can’t precisely replicate another model, but there are always useful things to learn.

    Rough ranking as follows:

    Switzerland
    USA
    Scandinavia (ex Norway)
    Germany/Austria
    Netherlands
    Canada/Australia/NZ
    South Korea
    France/Belgium
    *UK*
    Japan
    Spain/Portugal
    Italy
    New Europe (Czech, Poland, Baltics, maybe Hungary)

    Against this bundle, UK is middling and definitely bottom half.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,910

    kinabalu said:

    Legionella on the Barge. Lee?

    The full cruise ship experience.
    I see Cruella's gameplan here. Floating petri dishes could well reduce the numbers of asylum seekers significantly.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    edited August 2023
    On topic:

    Again, we come back to, how does a nation with north of 150 million eligible people end up with an octogenarian chiefly famous for his longevity as a Senator and a septuagenarian who is chiefly famous for his - ahem - interesting business activities and attempts to rig elections?

    It's not even as though there aren't better candidates out there - Whitmer for the Dems and Haley for the Reps spring to mind.

    But why do they keep coming back to these two?

    It speaks of a profoundly broken system.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    We should absolutely compare ourselves with Canada etc.

    I would say there are different varieties of capitalism to compare ourselves against, and learn from. We can’t precisely replicate another model, but there are always useful things to learn.

    Rough ranking as follows:

    Switzerland
    USA
    Scandinavia (ex Norway)
    Germany/Austria
    Netherlands
    Canada/Australia/NZ
    South Korea
    France/Belgium
    *UK*
    Japan
    Spain/Portugal
    Italy
    New Europe (Czech, Poland, Baltics, maybe Hungary)

    Against this bundle, UK is middling and definitely bottom half.

    But what are you ranking?! Prosperity, life quality, competitiveness, healthcare, median income, what?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364
    edited August 2023

    kinabalu said:

    Legionella on the Barge. Lee?

    The full cruise ship experience.
    I see Cruella's gameplan here. Floating petri dishes could well reduce the numbers of asylum seekers significantly.
    Your inference ... not sure they are that organised. But there is also tuberculosis, presumably, given the news yesterday. Or is that too slow? Probably not if one gets a really virulent strain combined with poor food.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,317
    Newsom has/had an extremely colourful private life.
    I’m not sure why his name keeps popping up.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    @Stocky

    There is a lot of money out there for children in care. Without naming names, I've worked with one person who gets funding of over £70k a year, and that's for non-residential support. I can imagine a multiplication by a factor of five for these sort of circumstances.

    Whether that money is as well spent as it could be if the figure were slightly reduced and the rest redirected to other deserving cases is another question.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769

    Newsom has/had an extremely colourful private life.
    I’m not sure why his name keeps popping up.

    Baldrick: Something will pop up.
    Blackadder: Not under Puritanism it won't.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,025

    Stocky said:

    2/2 Continuation:

    Attention turned to the second, more general, concern: why on earth was this eye-wateringly expensive and seemingly inappropriate village chosen? Surely a cheaper and larger location would be more appropriate economically? Parishioners were struggling with the maths. Some are smart cookies.

    Parishioner: This makes no sense economically.

    Rep: There is only a small profit margin and details are commercially confidential.

    Parishioner: Are you a charity? I guess you fund this partly from donations?

    Rep: No we are a private business. We have no donations. The only funding we have is council-funding.

    Parishioner: Then what aren’t you telling us? 6 F/T staff plus 1 P/T plus 2 cars plus upkeep and other costs, plus insurance plus the commercial rent of a 1.5M house at £50k pa? For 2 children? The council pay? You are kidding us?
    Etc Etc

    The parishioners left the meeting feeling bewildered about the economics of it rather than being overly concerned about the change of use. What was being concealed?


    I’ve been mulling this over for two weeks now. I reckon this property will cost £0.5M pa to run, purely council-funded.

    For two children.

    We often talk of the cost of nursing homes for the elderly. We need to pay attention to child social care costs. It is no wonder that councils are going bust.

    See below:
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/28/councils-england-wales-pay-1m-pounds-a-year-to-house-child-in-private-care-home#:~:text=11 months old-,Councils in England and Wales pay £1m a year,child in private care home&text=More than 20 councils in,released to the Guardian shows.

    Comments?

    2/2

    Hence the old joke that sending all the children in care to Eton and Winchester would be cheaper.
    It’s actually been done before, where the social workers have discovered kids that are very bright but held back by circumstance.

    On the original point. Yes, putting two kids in a massive house is totally bonkers. They’d be better off building something that looks like a boarding school on former military base.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,477
    Apparently this is Small Boats Week on the government grid, as Sunak et al publicise their efforts to solve the problem.
    Meanwhile, the barge has been evacuated, and rather large numbers are getting across the Channel in, er, small boats.
    It's not going very well, is it?
    This government really couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery, to coin a cliché.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,910

    Apparently this is Small Boats Week on the government grid, as Sunak et al publicise their efforts to solve the problem.
    Meanwhile, the barge has been evacuated, and rather large numbers are getting across the Channel in, er, small boats.
    It's not going very well, is it?
    This government really couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery, to coin a cliché.

    Fortunately the vast majority of asylum seekers are teetotal.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,466
    ClippP said:

    Mr Stocky said: "As part of my series of parish-councils-are-a-menace series of posts, I offer this for your delectation."

    How does this belong in a "parish-councils-are-a-menace" series, Mr Stocky? Surely the parish council has just convened a meeting of local inhabitants, who have come to find out what is happening.

    Unless you mean that the parish council is a threat to the working of the larger council responsible for the children, and to the profits of the rip-off business.

    Why is your immediate assumption that the business is a “rip-offf”?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,138
    edited August 2023
    Sandpit said:

    Stocky said:

    2/2 Continuation:

    Attention turned to the second, more general, concern: why on earth was this eye-wateringly expensive and seemingly inappropriate village chosen? Surely a cheaper and larger location would be more appropriate economically? Parishioners were struggling with the maths. Some are smart cookies.

    Parishioner: This makes no sense economically.

    Rep: There is only a small profit margin and details are commercially confidential.

    Parishioner: Are you a charity? I guess you fund this partly from donations?

    Rep: No we are a private business. We have no donations. The only funding we have is council-funding.

    Parishioner: Then what aren’t you telling us? 6 F/T staff plus 1 P/T plus 2 cars plus upkeep and other costs, plus insurance plus the commercial rent of a 1.5M house at £50k pa? For 2 children? The council pay? You are kidding us?
    Etc Etc

    The parishioners left the meeting feeling bewildered about the economics of it rather than being overly concerned about the change of use. What was being concealed?


    I’ve been mulling this over for two weeks now. I reckon this property will cost £0.5M pa to run, purely council-funded.

    For two children.

    We often talk of the cost of nursing homes for the elderly. We need to pay attention to child social care costs. It is no wonder that councils are going bust.

    See below:
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/28/councils-england-wales-pay-1m-pounds-a-year-to-house-child-in-private-care-home#:~:text=11 months old-,Councils in England and Wales pay £1m a year,child in private care home&text=More than 20 councils in,released to the Guardian shows.

    Comments?

    2/2

    Hence the old joke that sending all the children in care to Eton and Winchester would be cheaper.
    It’s actually been done before, where the social workers have discovered kids that are very bright but held back by circumstance.

    On the original point. Yes, putting two kids in a massive house is totally bonkers. They’d be better off building something that looks like a boarding school on former military base.
    At my rowing club, a kid who'd been excluded from school was introduced to rowing, by his dad who was homeschooling him.

    He turned out to be extremely talented. So the club sponsored him, free training etc.

    Won a scholarship on the back of Henley wins to one of the top public schools and from there went onto a rowing scholarship at top US university. Unless something goes wrong, you'll see him in the international rowing scene.

    Smaller sized care homes are less likely to have the problems that a massed barracks type place will have.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,025

    Newsom has/had an extremely colourful private life.
    I’m not sure why his name keeps popping up.

    Given how close he came to getting recalled, and the context of the many social problems affecting California, his opponents have several free hits.

    That said, the proposed debate between himself and DeSantis is both intriguing and weird, given that one of them is standing and one of them isn’t.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,138
    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Legionella on the Barge. Lee?

    The full cruise ship experience.
    I see Cruella's gameplan here. Floating petri dishes could well reduce the numbers of asylum seekers significantly.
    Your inference ... not sure they are that organised. But there is also tuberculosis, presumably, given the news yesterday. Or is that too slow? Probably not if one gets a really virulent strain combined with poor food.
    Interesting to follow the fantasises of those who really dislike the current government.

    They really should just sink the boats like the Greeks, or pay the Libyan Coastguard to enslave the migrant. Like proper Europeans.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769

    Sandpit said:

    Stocky said:

    2/2 Continuation:

    Attention turned to the second, more general, concern: why on earth was this eye-wateringly expensive and seemingly inappropriate village chosen? Surely a cheaper and larger location would be more appropriate economically? Parishioners were struggling with the maths. Some are smart cookies.

    Parishioner: This makes no sense economically.

    Rep: There is only a small profit margin and details are commercially confidential.

    Parishioner: Are you a charity? I guess you fund this partly from donations?

    Rep: No we are a private business. We have no donations. The only funding we have is council-funding.

    Parishioner: Then what aren’t you telling us? 6 F/T staff plus 1 P/T plus 2 cars plus upkeep and other costs, plus insurance plus the commercial rent of a 1.5M house at £50k pa? For 2 children? The council pay? You are kidding us?
    Etc Etc

    The parishioners left the meeting feeling bewildered about the economics of it rather than being overly concerned about the change of use. What was being concealed?


    I’ve been mulling this over for two weeks now. I reckon this property will cost £0.5M pa to run, purely council-funded.

    For two children.

    We often talk of the cost of nursing homes for the elderly. We need to pay attention to child social care costs. It is no wonder that councils are going bust.

    See below:
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/28/councils-england-wales-pay-1m-pounds-a-year-to-house-child-in-private-care-home#:~:text=11 months old-,Councils in England and Wales pay £1m a year,child in private care home&text=More than 20 councils in,released to the Guardian shows.

    Comments?

    2/2

    Hence the old joke that sending all the children in care to Eton and Winchester would be cheaper.
    It’s actually been done before, where the social workers have discovered kids that are very bright but held back by circumstance.

    On the original point. Yes, putting two kids in a massive house is totally bonkers. They’d be better off building something that looks like a boarding school on former military base.
    At my rowing club, a kid who'd been excluded from school was introduced to rowing, by his dad who was homeschooling him.

    He turned out to be extremely talented. So the club sponsored him, free training etc.

    Won a scholarship on the back of Henley wins to one of the top public schools and from there went onto a rowing scholarship at top US university. Unless something goes wrong, you'll see him in the international rowing scene.

    Smaller sized care homes are less likely to have the problems that a massed barracks type place will have.
    I'd certainly agree with that, but equally, two strikes me as surprisingly low for the staffing numbers. I would have expected it to be maybe four or five.

    It is of course possible these are extra-complex cases that are being catered for.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,232
    ClippP said:

    Mr Stocky said: "As part of my series of parish-councils-are-a-menace series of posts, I offer this for your delectation."

    How does this belong in a "parish-councils-are-a-menace" series, Mr Stocky? Surely the parish council has just convened a meeting of local inhabitants, who have come to find out what is happening.

    Unless you mean that the parish council is a threat to the working of the larger council responsible for the children, and to the profits of the rip-off business.

    I'm not a fan of the parish council system in general. In this case they operated properly I agree. They will probably object to the particular proposal - but I'm not sure whether they will find legitimate grounds.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,138
    Stocky said:

    ClippP said:

    Mr Stocky said: "As part of my series of parish-councils-are-a-menace series of posts, I offer this for your delectation."

    How does this belong in a "parish-councils-are-a-menace" series, Mr Stocky? Surely the parish council has just convened a meeting of local inhabitants, who have come to find out what is happening.

    Unless you mean that the parish council is a threat to the working of the larger council responsible for the children, and to the profits of the rip-off business.

    I'm not a fan of the parish council system in general. In this case they operated properly I agree. They will probably object to the particular proposal - but I'm not sure whether they will find legitimate grounds.
    I am exactly the reverse on this.

    What the Parish council is doing is engaging directly with the locals - explaining the situation and what will actually happen. This is human level government.

    We need more of this - people who are local, who are your neighbours, organising, fixing up the world bit by bit. Doing it on a human level.

    Rather than WhitehallGPT sends The Men From The Ministry to drop a bomb on your locality.

    Sure, clipping the grass round the war memorial sounds laughable, but society is composed of lots of small bits.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,708
    Leon said:

    We should absolutely compare ourselves with Canada etc.

    I would say there are different varieties of capitalism to compare ourselves against, and learn from. We can’t precisely replicate another model, but there are always useful things to learn.

    Rough ranking as follows:

    Switzerland
    USA
    Scandinavia (ex Norway)
    Germany/Austria
    Netherlands
    Canada/Australia/NZ
    South Korea
    France/Belgium
    *UK*
    Japan
    Spain/Portugal
    Italy
    New Europe (Czech, Poland, Baltics, maybe Hungary)

    Against this bundle, UK is middling and definitely bottom half.

    But what are you ranking?! Prosperity, life quality, competitiveness, healthcare, median income, what?
    His confirmation bias.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277

    Newsom has/had an extremely colourful private life.
    I’m not sure why his name keeps popping up.

    Gretchen Whitmer should be the nominee if Biden decides after all to not run . I think she’d be a great first female President.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Legionella on the Barge. Lee?

    The full cruise ship experience.
    I see Cruella's gameplan here. Floating petri dishes could well reduce the numbers of asylum seekers significantly.
    Your inference ... not sure they are that organised. But there is also tuberculosis, presumably, given the news yesterday. Or is that too slow? Probably not if one gets a really virulent strain combined with poor food.
    Interesting to follow the fantasises of those who really dislike the current government.

    They really should just sink the boats like the Greeks, or pay the Libyan Coastguard to enslave the migrant. Like proper Europeans.
    Not at all. It's a serious point, because the HO don't screen/check for that before ordering them to move, which also disrupts treatment, which requires a long course of drugs and checks. I recall this from when some time back there was real worry when an antibiotic-resistant strain emerged in homeless people in Edinburgh, and the discussion around that time noted that keeping tabs (so to speak) on the patients was very difficult. They were also malnourished, and that is important becaudse it reduces resistance. From reports the HO do not have a good record in making sure that asylum seeker detainees are actually fed a reasonable diet, though one hopes the barge would be a lot better in this respect than some random third grade hotel.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,936
    edited August 2023
    If Trump avoids conviction next year then he has an excellent chance of beating Biden, at least by winning the EC. Biden's approval rating currently is well under 50%.

    If Trump is convicted in any of his cases next year however Biden equally has an excellent chance of re election. Polls show even many Republicans would not vote for Trump again if convicted of criminal charges so either he loses the nomination or the RNC change the rules pre convention to replace him with another candidate, probably Pence or DeSantis, if Trump is convicted.

    Those 2 however would probably see Trump diehards stay home on polling day rather than vote for them or Biden while also being too hardline to have much appeal to suburban Independent swing voters who switched to Biden in 2020 after voting for Trump in 2016
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,500
    Sandpit said:

    Greetings from Irish Pub, Zhytomyr, Ukraine, where they have Guinness on tap - and we’ve just had a pint of the Irish, a pint of the local, and a bacon cheeseburger, for about £8 a head. Cheers! 🍻

    Sounds excellent
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277

    Apparently this is Small Boats Week on the government grid, as Sunak et al publicise their efforts to solve the problem.
    Meanwhile, the barge has been evacuated, and rather large numbers are getting across the Channel in, er, small boats.
    It's not going very well, is it?
    This government really couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery, to coin a cliché.

    The right wing headlines are likely to be “ migrants bring death plague “ !

    You’d think that a government that wasn’t totally useless would screen individuals before sticking them on a barge .

    Alternatively the water supply was already infected and the public are being lied to .
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,936
    edited August 2023

    We should absolutely compare ourselves with Canada etc.

    I would say there are different varieties of capitalism to compare ourselves against, and learn from. We can’t precisely replicate another model, but there are always useful things to learn.

    Rough ranking as follows:

    Switzerland
    USA
    Scandinavia (ex Norway)
    Germany/Austria
    Netherlands
    Canada/Australia/NZ
    South Korea
    France/Belgium
    *UK*
    Japan
    Spain/Portugal
    Italy
    New Europe (Czech, Poland, Baltics, maybe Hungary)

    Against this bundle, UK is middling and definitely bottom half.

    We are above France/Belgium and South Korea too and if you are unemployed or have a serious illness or injury you are far better off in the UK than US in terms of accessing state support and state healthcare if you are not a high earner who can afford private healthcare anyway.

    We also have a global city in London that only really NYC can rival
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,317
    Leon said:

    We should absolutely compare ourselves with Canada etc.

    I would say there are different varieties of capitalism to compare ourselves against, and learn from. We can’t precisely replicate another model, but there are always useful things to learn.

    Rough ranking as follows:

    Switzerland
    USA
    Scandinavia (ex Norway)
    Germany/Austria
    Netherlands
    Canada/Australia/NZ
    South Korea
    France/Belgium
    *UK*
    Japan
    Spain/Portugal
    Italy
    New Europe (Czech, Poland, Baltics, maybe Hungary)

    Against this bundle, UK is middling and definitely bottom half.

    But what are you ranking?! Prosperity, life quality, competitiveness, healthcare, median income, what?
    Real GDP per cap.
    Is my rough approximation, but I don’t think it’s far out.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,138
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Legionella on the Barge. Lee?

    The full cruise ship experience.
    I see Cruella's gameplan here. Floating petri dishes could well reduce the numbers of asylum seekers significantly.
    Your inference ... not sure they are that organised. But there is also tuberculosis, presumably, given the news yesterday. Or is that too slow? Probably not if one gets a really virulent strain combined with poor food.
    Interesting to follow the fantasises of those who really dislike the current government.

    They really should just sink the boats like the Greeks, or pay the Libyan Coastguard to enslave the migrant. Like proper Europeans.
    Not at all. It's a serious point, because the HO don't screen/check for that before ordering them to move, which also disrupts treatment, which requires a long course of drugs and checks. I recall this from when some time back there was real worry when an antibiotic-resistant strain emerged in homeless people in Edinburgh, and the discussion around that time noted that keeping tabs (so to speak) on the patients was very difficult. They were also malnourished, and that is important becaudse it reduces resistance. From reports the HO do not have a good record in making sure that asylum seeker detainees are actually fed a reasonable diet, though one hopes the barge would be a lot better in this respect than some random third grade hotel.
    There were some attempts to declare that screening migrants for various diseases was against their human rights.

    The comment I had from a doctor who'd worked from MF in Africa was that poor people from some countries were very often ill by our standards - infections, parasites etc. And that screening on entry was vital. For them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,936

    Off topic

    Bibby Stockholm project running like clockwork I see.

    So some Tory MPs are demanding "pushback" is on the agenda again.

    Once the legionnaires is cleared up and water supply clean again the asylum seekers will be returned to the barge
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,160

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Legionella on the Barge. Lee?

    The full cruise ship experience.
    I see Cruella's gameplan here. Floating petri dishes could well reduce the numbers of asylum seekers significantly.
    Your inference ... not sure they are that organised. But there is also tuberculosis, presumably, given the news yesterday. Or is that too slow? Probably not if one gets a really virulent strain combined with poor food.
    Interesting to follow the fantasises of those who really dislike the current government.

    They really should just sink the boats like the Greeks, or pay the Libyan Coastguard to enslave the migrant. Like proper Europeans.
    I’ll put you in the dwindling column of people who don’t really dislike this government then. Good to be out in the open about this stuff.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,025
    edited August 2023
    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    Greetings from Irish Pub, Zhytomyr, Ukraine, where they have Guinness on tap - and we’ve just had a pint of the Irish, a pint of the local, and a bacon cheeseburger, for about £8 a head. Cheers! 🍻

    Sounds excellent
    I know there’s a war on, but Ukraine’s a genuinely lovely place outside of the fighting areas. They will be very happy for the tourist dollars when this is all over.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,138
    edited August 2023

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Legionella on the Barge. Lee?

    The full cruise ship experience.
    I see Cruella's gameplan here. Floating petri dishes could well reduce the numbers of asylum seekers significantly.
    Your inference ... not sure they are that organised. But there is also tuberculosis, presumably, given the news yesterday. Or is that too slow? Probably not if one gets a really virulent strain combined with poor food.
    Interesting to follow the fantasises of those who really dislike the current government.

    They really should just sink the boats like the Greeks, or pay the Libyan Coastguard to enslave the migrant. Like proper Europeans.
    I’ll put you in the dwindling column of people who don’t really dislike this government then. Good to be out in the open about this stuff.
    I don't like them and won't vote for them.

    I just don't make up fantasises about them, at odds to the actual things done.

    EDIT : I notice no outrage among the right on about enslaving Subsaharan Africans in Libya, paid for by the EU. Why make up fantasies about mistreatment of migrants when you have that?

    Should I put you down in the pro slavery group, then?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    Betting Post

    Football: yes, kickball returns and I'm sure we're all giddy with glee. Even better, random wibbling about it will occasionally appear on my blog.

    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2023/08/ligue-1-11-august-2023.html

    A while ago I tipped Bournemouth and Brentford to each win at home, at 3. Also backed Clermont to win at 3.65 versus Monaco (the two sides finished last season 6 points apart so home odds appear on the long side).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364
    edited August 2023

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Legionella on the Barge. Lee?

    The full cruise ship experience.
    I see Cruella's gameplan here. Floating petri dishes could well reduce the numbers of asylum seekers significantly.
    Your inference ... not sure they are that organised. But there is also tuberculosis, presumably, given the news yesterday. Or is that too slow? Probably not if one gets a really virulent strain combined with poor food.
    Interesting to follow the fantasises of those who really dislike the current government.

    They really should just sink the boats like the Greeks, or pay the Libyan Coastguard to enslave the migrant. Like proper Europeans.
    Not at all. It's a serious point, because the HO don't screen/check for that before ordering them to move, which also disrupts treatment, which requires a long course of drugs and checks. I recall this from when some time back there was real worry when an antibiotic-resistant strain emerged in homeless people in Edinburgh, and the discussion around that time noted that keeping tabs (so to speak) on the patients was very difficult. They were also malnourished, and that is important becaudse it reduces resistance. From reports the HO do not have a good record in making sure that asylum seeker detainees are actually fed a reasonable diet, though one hopes the barge would be a lot better in this respect than some random third grade hotel.
    There were some attempts to declare that screening migrants for various diseases was against their human rights.

    The comment I had from a doctor who'd worked from MF in Africa was that poor people from some countries were very often ill by our standards - infections, parasites etc. And that screening on entry was vital. For them.
    Point 1: silly, but given the sort of stuff one gets in the tabloids it's not surprising. Edit: any decent communal living organization does that. The Army, presumably boarding schools, and so on.

    Point 2: quite so. Also add the conditions they have in their trek,. shanty camps en route, etc. And the risk of cross infections in high density things like cruise liners and, indeed, barges.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,317
    HYUFD said:

    We should absolutely compare ourselves with Canada etc.

    I would say there are different varieties of capitalism to compare ourselves against, and learn from. We can’t precisely replicate another model, but there are always useful things to learn.

    Rough ranking as follows:

    Switzerland
    USA
    Scandinavia (ex Norway)
    Germany/Austria
    Netherlands
    Canada/Australia/NZ
    South Korea
    France/Belgium
    *UK*
    Japan
    Spain/Portugal
    Italy
    New Europe (Czech, Poland, Baltics, maybe Hungary)

    Against this bundle, UK is middling and definitely bottom half.

    We are above France/Belgium and South Korea too and if you are unemployed or have a serious illness or injury you are far better off in the UK than US in terms of accessing state support and state healthcare if you are not a high earner who can afford private healthcare anyway.

    We also have a global city in London that only really NYC can rival
    I just checked Wikipedia.
    We are behind France, Belgium, and South Korea, according to the IMF.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,230
    Dura_Ace said:

    I don't understand the odds on the other three. You are literally betting on whether Biden or Trump will die in the next 18 months because that’s the only way one of those two isn't going to be POTUS at the end of Jan '24.

    It literally isn't.

    Either could be incapacitated - and Trump could conceivably be convicted, or so badly damaged by one or more of the ongoing criminal cases that the Republicans replace him.
    You might think the latter event impossible, but it isn't.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,138
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Legionella on the Barge. Lee?

    The full cruise ship experience.
    I see Cruella's gameplan here. Floating petri dishes could well reduce the numbers of asylum seekers significantly.
    Your inference ... not sure they are that organised. But there is also tuberculosis, presumably, given the news yesterday. Or is that too slow? Probably not if one gets a really virulent strain combined with poor food.
    Interesting to follow the fantasises of those who really dislike the current government.

    They really should just sink the boats like the Greeks, or pay the Libyan Coastguard to enslave the migrant. Like proper Europeans.
    Not at all. It's a serious point, because the HO don't screen/check for that before ordering them to move, which also disrupts treatment, which requires a long course of drugs and checks. I recall this from when some time back there was real worry when an antibiotic-resistant strain emerged in homeless people in Edinburgh, and the discussion around that time noted that keeping tabs (so to speak) on the patients was very difficult. They were also malnourished, and that is important becaudse it reduces resistance. From reports the HO do not have a good record in making sure that asylum seeker detainees are actually fed a reasonable diet, though one hopes the barge would be a lot better in this respect than some random third grade hotel.
    There were some attempts to declare that screening migrants for various diseases was against their human rights.

    The comment I had from a doctor who'd worked from MF in Africa was that poor people from some countries were very often ill by our standards - infections, parasites etc. And that screening on entry was vital. For them.
    Point 1: silly, but given the sort of stuff one gets in the tabloids it's not surprising. Edit: any decent communal living organization does that. The Army, presumably boarding schools, and so on.

    Point 2: quite so. Also add the conditions they have in their trek,. shanty camps en route, etc. And the risk of cross infections in high density things like cruise liners and, indeed, barges.

    A favourite was the harassment, by a journalist, of a worker with the migrants landing on the Greek islands. The worker was wearing a noddy suit, because of cases of scabies.

    The reporter hammered away at her, claiming that she was making the migrants feel bad. Yes, attacking the person helping the migrants. For helping to treat a nasty medical condition.

    The reporter needed scabies, I think.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,160
    .

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Legionella on the Barge. Lee?

    The full cruise ship experience.
    I see Cruella's gameplan here. Floating petri dishes could well reduce the numbers of asylum seekers significantly.
    Your inference ... not sure they are that organised. But there is also tuberculosis, presumably, given the news yesterday. Or is that too slow? Probably not if one gets a really virulent strain combined with poor food.
    Interesting to follow the fantasises of those who really dislike the current government.

    They really should just sink the boats like the Greeks, or pay the Libyan Coastguard to enslave the migrant. Like proper Europeans.
    I’ll put you in the dwindling column of people who don’t really dislike this government then. Good to be out in the open about this stuff.
    I don't like them and won't vote for them.

    I just don't make up fantasises about them, at odds to the actual things done.

    EDIT : I notice no outrage among the right on about enslaving Subsaharan Africans in Libya, paid for by the EU. Why make up fantasies about mistreatment of migrants when you have that?

    Should I put you down in the pro slavery group, then?
    Golly, touchy.

    I predict an incoming anecdote about a bloke wot you met.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Betting Post

    Football: yes, kickball returns and I'm sure we're all giddy with glee. Even better, random wibbling about it will occasionally appear on my blog.

    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2023/08/ligue-1-11-august-2023.html

    A while ago I tipped Bournemouth and Brentford to each win at home, at 3. Also backed Clermont to win at 3.65 versus Monaco (the two sides finished last season 6 points apart so home odds appear on the long side).

    Premier League Soccerball returns this weekend. For those of us with interests in lower divisions it’s already happened. Having watched Ipswich hold out for 13 f’in minutes of extra time on Sunday evening I think we might need more than that extra week to finish the season. What a farce.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,025
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I don't understand the odds on the other three. You are literally betting on whether Biden or Trump will die in the next 18 months because that’s the only way one of those two isn't going to be POTUS at the end of Jan '24.

    It literally isn't.

    Either could be incapacitated - and Trump could conceivably be convicted, or so badly damaged by one or more of the ongoing criminal cases that the Republicans replace him.
    You might think the latter event impossible, but it isn't.
    I wonder if lay Biden is the value bet at the moment?

    If Trump gets knocked out by his legal troubles, it’s not impossible that Biden agrees to stand aside.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,910
    HYUFD said:

    If Trump avoids conviction next year then he has an excellent chance of beating Biden, at least by winning the EC. Biden's approval rating currently is well under 50%.

    If Trump is convicted in any of his cases next year however Biden equally has an excellent chance of re election. Polls show even many Republicans would not vote for Trump again if convicted of criminal charges so either he loses the nomination or the RNC change the rules pre convention to replace him with another candidate, probably Pence or DeSantis, if Trump is convicted.

    Those 2 however would probably see Trump diehards stay home on polling day rather than vote for them or Biden while also being too hardline to have much appeal to suburban Independent swing voters who switched to Biden in 2020 after voting for Trump in 2016

    Why are you so keen to see Trump re-elected? Do you not care what he did on January 6? Are you aware of what he will do if he gets a second bite of the cherry? Do you want to witness the end of U.S. democracy? Do you want to see Europe destabilised by an emboldened Putin?

    The extreme right are not one nation Tories. They are not your friends!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,910
    HYUFD said:

    Off topic

    Bibby Stockholm project running like clockwork I see.

    So some Tory MPs are demanding "pushback" is on the agenda again.

    Once the legionnaires is cleared up and water supply clean again the asylum seekers will be returned to the barge
    No harm done then.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,778
    Sandpit said:

    Greetings from Irish Pub, Zhytomyr, Ukraine, where they have Guinness on tap - and we’ve just had a pint of the Irish, a pint of the local, and a bacon cheeseburger, for about £8 a head. Cheers! 🍻

    Strong goatse energy on the logo.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,101

    I predict an incoming anecdote about a bloke wot you met.

    Taxi driver.

    Albanian, i fink...
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,135
    HYUFD said:

    We should absolutely compare ourselves with Canada etc.

    I would say there are different varieties of capitalism to compare ourselves against, and learn from. We can’t precisely replicate another model, but there are always useful things to learn.

    Rough ranking as follows:

    Switzerland
    USA
    Scandinavia (ex Norway)
    Germany/Austria
    Netherlands
    Canada/Australia/NZ
    South Korea
    France/Belgium
    *UK*
    Japan
    Spain/Portugal
    Italy
    New Europe (Czech, Poland, Baltics, maybe Hungary)

    Against this bundle, UK is middling and definitely bottom half.

    We are above France/Belgium and South Korea too and if you are unemployed or have a serious illness or injury you are far better off in the UK than US in terms of accessing state support and state healthcare if you are not a high earner who can afford private healthcare anyway.

    We also have a global city in London that only really NYC can rival
    We are a first rate city with a third rate country attached.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415

    Leon said:

    We should absolutely compare ourselves with Canada etc.

    I would say there are different varieties of capitalism to compare ourselves against, and learn from. We can’t precisely replicate another model, but there are always useful things to learn.

    Rough ranking as follows:

    Switzerland
    USA
    Scandinavia (ex Norway)
    Germany/Austria
    Netherlands
    Canada/Australia/NZ
    South Korea
    France/Belgium
    *UK*
    Japan
    Spain/Portugal
    Italy
    New Europe (Czech, Poland, Baltics, maybe Hungary)

    Against this bundle, UK is middling and definitely bottom half.

    But what are you ranking?! Prosperity, life quality, competitiveness, healthcare, median income, what?
    Real GDP per cap.
    Is my rough approximation, but I don’t think it’s far out.
    Blimey I didn't realise we were ahead of Japan. Lots of pensioners there I suppose tho.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Greetings from Irish Pub, Zhytomyr, Ukraine, where they have Guinness on tap - and we’ve just had a pint of the Irish, a pint of the local, and a bacon cheeseburger, for about £8 a head. Cheers! 🍻

    Strong goatse energy on the logo.
    :lol:
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,138
    A
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I don't understand the odds on the other three. You are literally betting on whether Biden or Trump will die in the next 18 months because that’s the only way one of those two isn't going to be POTUS at the end of Jan '24.

    It literally isn't.

    Either could be incapacitated - and Trump could conceivably be convicted, or so badly damaged by one or more of the ongoing criminal cases that the Republicans replace him.
    You might think the latter event impossible, but it isn't.
    Events

    1) Biden death from age related stuff. 80 years - 6% or so in the next year
    2) Trump death from age related stuff. 77 years - 5% or so in the next year

    P(A or B) = P(A) + P(B) - P(A and B)

    = 0.06 + 0.05 - (0.06*0.05)

    = 0.11 - 0.003

    = 0.107

    10.7% probability than *one* of them keels over in the next year....

    Someone tell me I am wrong, please?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,025
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Greetings from Irish Pub, Zhytomyr, Ukraine, where they have Guinness on tap - and we’ve just had a pint of the Irish, a pint of the local, and a bacon cheeseburger, for about £8 a head. Cheers! 🍻

    Strong goatse energy on the logo.
    LOL!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    Fishing said:

    HYUFD said:

    We should absolutely compare ourselves with Canada etc.

    I would say there are different varieties of capitalism to compare ourselves against, and learn from. We can’t precisely replicate another model, but there are always useful things to learn.

    Rough ranking as follows:

    Switzerland
    USA
    Scandinavia (ex Norway)
    Germany/Austria
    Netherlands
    Canada/Australia/NZ
    South Korea
    France/Belgium
    *UK*
    Japan
    Spain/Portugal
    Italy
    New Europe (Czech, Poland, Baltics, maybe Hungary)

    Against this bundle, UK is middling and definitely bottom half.

    We are above France/Belgium and South Korea too and if you are unemployed or have a serious illness or injury you are far better off in the UK than US in terms of accessing state support and state healthcare if you are not a high earner who can afford private healthcare anyway.

    We also have a global city in London that only really NYC can rival
    We are a first rate city with a third rate country attached.
    Admirable though it is, I think it's going a bit far to call Lichfield first rate.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,936
    edited August 2023
    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    We should absolutely compare ourselves with Canada etc.

    I would say there are different varieties of capitalism to compare ourselves against, and learn from. We can’t precisely replicate another model, but there are always useful things to learn.

    Rough ranking as follows:

    Switzerland
    USA
    Scandinavia (ex Norway)
    Germany/Austria
    Netherlands
    Canada/Australia/NZ
    South Korea
    France/Belgium
    *UK*
    Japan
    Spain/Portugal
    Italy
    New Europe (Czech, Poland, Baltics, maybe Hungary)

    Against this bundle, UK is middling and definitely bottom half.

    But what are you ranking?! Prosperity, life quality, competitiveness, healthcare, median income, what?
    Real GDP per cap.
    Is my rough approximation, but I don’t think it’s far out.
    Blimey I didn't realise we were ahead of Japan. Lots of pensioners there I suppose tho.
    Japan has always been more corporatist than low tax and low regulation and the nations and states that do the latter combined with a highly educated population tend to have the highest gdp per capitas
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769

    A

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I don't understand the odds on the other three. You are literally betting on whether Biden or Trump will die in the next 18 months because that’s the only way one of those two isn't going to be POTUS at the end of Jan '24.

    It literally isn't.

    Either could be incapacitated - and Trump could conceivably be convicted, or so badly damaged by one or more of the ongoing criminal cases that the Republicans replace him.
    You might think the latter event impossible, but it isn't.
    Events

    1) Biden death from age related stuff. 80 years - 6% or so in the next year
    2) Trump death from age related stuff. 77 years - 5% or so in the next year

    P(A or B) = P(A) + P(B) - P(A and B)

    = 0.06 + 0.05 - (0.06*0.05)

    = 0.11 - 0.003

    = 0.107

    10.7% probability than *one* of them keels over in the next year....

    Someone tell me I am wrong, please?
    Well, I definitely don't think this is one for sunglasses.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,138

    .

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Legionella on the Barge. Lee?

    The full cruise ship experience.
    I see Cruella's gameplan here. Floating petri dishes could well reduce the numbers of asylum seekers significantly.
    Your inference ... not sure they are that organised. But there is also tuberculosis, presumably, given the news yesterday. Or is that too slow? Probably not if one gets a really virulent strain combined with poor food.
    Interesting to follow the fantasises of those who really dislike the current government.

    They really should just sink the boats like the Greeks, or pay the Libyan Coastguard to enslave the migrant. Like proper Europeans.
    I’ll put you in the dwindling column of people who don’t really dislike this government then. Good to be out in the open about this stuff.
    I don't like them and won't vote for them.

    I just don't make up fantasises about them, at odds to the actual things done.

    EDIT : I notice no outrage among the right on about enslaving Subsaharan Africans in Libya, paid for by the EU. Why make up fantasies about mistreatment of migrants when you have that?

    Should I put you down in the pro slavery group, then?
    Golly, touchy.

    I predict an incoming anecdote about a bloke wot you met.
    It's fairly simple - criticise people for things they actually do. Which I do. The boats nonsense isn't going to change.

    But fantasising about plots to kill all the migrants runs up against the cold reality of what is happening and what is being done elsewhere. Or is out of sight, out of mind?

    Otherwise you end up in a weird fantasy world. Bit like Corbyn or Donald Trump. Where The Other Guys *should* be doing The Bad Things you say.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,936
    Fishing said:

    HYUFD said:

    We should absolutely compare ourselves with Canada etc.

    I would say there are different varieties of capitalism to compare ourselves against, and learn from. We can’t precisely replicate another model, but there are always useful things to learn.

    Rough ranking as follows:

    Switzerland
    USA
    Scandinavia (ex Norway)
    Germany/Austria
    Netherlands
    Canada/Australia/NZ
    South Korea
    France/Belgium
    *UK*
    Japan
    Spain/Portugal
    Italy
    New Europe (Czech, Poland, Baltics, maybe Hungary)

    Against this bundle, UK is middling and definitely bottom half.

    We are above France/Belgium and South Korea too and if you are unemployed or have a serious illness or injury you are far better off in the UK than US in terms of accessing state support and state healthcare if you are not a high earner who can afford private healthcare anyway.

    We also have a global city in London that only really NYC can rival
    We are a first rate city with a third rate country attached.
    Though you are more likely to be able to afford to buy a house in the country than the biggest city unless you are very wealthy
This discussion has been closed.