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By comparison the same YouGov sample found current CON voters splitting 93% to 6% when the same question was asked about Mr. Cameron.

Read the full story here

dr_spyn

chelski.

Quincel

I suspect you'd find him more divisive than most if you split it further into "Very Good", "Good", "Bad", "Very Bad". His supporters seem as evangelical as his opponents are rabid.

(I should state for the record, I'm a rabid one.)

Morris_Dancer

Good afternoon, everyone.

Mr. Quincel, I'd agree with that prediction.

FPT: Miss DiCanio, it's true that the Italians have recently been pretty good against the French. I read the Azurri[sp] have beaten the French in Italy in both the most recent matches, but have never beaten them away from home (Scotland has the dubious honour of being the only one they've beaten away from home).

Mick_Pork

If Clegg and his ostrich faction of spinners think Gove is a magic bullet to shift them off flatlining at 10% since late 2010 then May's elections will come as quite a shock to them.

Clegg and Cammie are the coalition so what's to stop Clegg drawing a red line and telling Cammie to dump Gove? Aside from the obvious.

Differentiation posturing has been tried before the other May elections and it's always failed.

Tykejohnno

What Gove needs is results his idea's/changes are working and he needs them Quick.

felix

Mick_Pork said:

If Clegg and his ostrich faction of spinners think Gove is a magic bullet to shift them off flatlining at 10% since late 2010 then May's elections will come as quite a shock to them.

Clegg and Cammie are the coalition so what's to stop Clegg drawing a red line and telling Cammie to dump Gove? Aside from the obvious.

Differentiation posturing has been tried before the other May elections and it's always failed.

Delighted to agree wholeheartedly with Mr. Pork - there's 7 words I never expected to type!

Gove good or bad and I'm a fan will not be a game changer in an election campaign.

edmundintokyo

Mick_Pork said:

If Clegg and his ostrich faction of spinners think Gove is a magic bullet to shift them off flatlining at 10% since late 2010 then May's elections will come as quite a shock to them.

Clegg and Cammie are the coalition so what's to stop Clegg drawing a red line and telling Cammie to dump Gove? Aside from the obvious.

Differentiation posturing has been tried before the other May elections and it's always failed.

It might still work for 2015 even if it doesn't work before then, because a lot of the seats they're defending are against Con with no Lab presence to speak of. They can't have left-wing voters thinking they're exactly like the Tories, but they only need to be preferred Con, not deeply loved.

Neil

Gove isnt all that bad, he is a committed trade unionist after all.

Scrapheap_as_was

Obsessive Gove Disorder.

Spurs = big game bottlers. Huge game in battle for 4th / 5th / 6th, currently at H/T, no shots on target.

Morris_Dancer

I think this is bullshit.

No more all-male panel shows, the BBC has decreed:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-26107011

For reference, panel shows (as most will know) have a host and two teams usually of 2 or 3 each. So, 5-7 people in total. Women (anecdotal, so open to dispute) make up about 10% of stand-ups and the like... so you'd probably expect, by numbers, 1 every 2 shows, or about 2 every 3.

One eagerly awaits the quotas for non-whites, homosexuals, left-handed people etc etc. Just have guests on that are worthy. If that means a disproportionate number of women, fine. If it means a disproportionate number of men, fine.

Quotas are despicable. If you have a quota-mandated one-woman minimum per show then people will think she's there because she possesses ovaries, not because she possesses wit. It diminishes women amusing enough to be on.

Edited extra bit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I3qREbKqLw

Mick_Pork

felix said:

Gove good or bad and I'm a fan will not be a game changer in an election campaign.

His only other utility is to try and persuade the most gullible of members and activists still in the lib dems that there's an issue with which they agree with Clegg amid all the other cave-ins on immigration and civil liberties. Again, this is as regular as clockwork and usually occurs before spring or autumn lib dem conferences so as to try to forestall the inevitable rebellions on other matters and to desperately try to placate anger against Clegg.

Lib Dems 'preparing spring offensive' against Tory coalition colleagues

Liberal Democrats will call time on coalition unity this spring, David Laws has revealed, with a 'differentiation' offensive set to make internal strains greater than ever before.

The schools minister is in the midst of a public row with education secretary Michael Gove over the sacking of Ofsted chief Sally Morgan.

Now Laws, who wants Nick Clegg to be given an effective veto over the appointment of Morgan's successor, has announced his party will mount a major attempt to distance itself from the Tories between April and September.

The differentiation campaign would begin in April, during the European elections campaign, and continue until September and the Lib Dems' final autumn conference before next year's general election.

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2014/02/06/lib-dems-preparing-spring-offensive-against-tory-coalition-c

SouthamObserver

Neil said:

Gove isnt all that bad, he is a committed trade unionist after all.

No doubt he means well, but because he's been captured by producer interests (people who want to run chains of academies and free schools) he is not able to engage with opinions that don't fit with what they are telling him. Sometimes surrounding yourself with people who do not challenge you can be an unhealthy thing.

Charles

Neil said:

Gove isnt all that bad, he is a committed trade unionist after all.

Neil - said on the last thread that if members are not committed to the objective they wont vote for action.

Unfortunately they just tend not to vote at all. Hence you get strike actions approved by a small minority of members.

Smarmeron

@Charles
"Hence you get strike actions approved by a small minority of members. "
And governments elected by a small minority of voters?

GeoffM

Morris_Dancer said:

If you have a quota-mandated one-woman minimum per show then people will think she's there because she possesses ovaries, not because she possesses wit. It diminishes women amusing enough to be on.

Anyone who thinks that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit hasn't heard Jo Brand in action.

Yet another reason to privatise the out of touch lefty biased BBC.

Mick_Pork

edmundintokyo said:

Mick_Pork said:

If Clegg and his ostrich faction of spinners think Gove is a magic bullet to shift them off flatlining at 10% since late 2010 then May's elections will come as quite a shock to them.

Clegg and Cammie are the coalition so what's to stop Clegg drawing a red line and telling Cammie to dump Gove? Aside from the obvious.

Differentiation posturing has been tried before the other May elections and it's always failed.

It might still work for 2015 even if it doesn't work before then, because a lot of the seats they're defending are against Con with no Lab presence to speak of. They can't have left-wing voters thinking they're exactly like the Tories, but they only need to be preferred Con, not deeply loved.

During an election campaign you don't think it will occur to any political journo or debate moderator to ask Clegg why he stuck with Gove if his influence was so malign? Rest assured they will and not just on that particular piece of differentiation posturing.

Gove didn't just pop up overnight so that's years of coalition Education policy Clegg and lib dem activists are going to somehow have to explain away. Gove posturing plays well with lib dems but so do plenty of other things that Clegg won't be so keen to differentiate against.
Gove is just not enough by himself to do anything meaningful for them. He's an easy target but you know who else is? Clegg. His polling is still even more laughable than Gove's.

edmundintokyo

Mick_Pork said:

edmundintokyo said:

Mick_Pork said:

If Clegg and his ostrich faction of spinners think Gove is a magic bullet to shift them off flatlining at 10% since late 2010 then May's elections will come as quite a shock to them.

Clegg and Cammie are the coalition so what's to stop Clegg drawing a red line and telling Cammie to dump Gove? Aside from the obvious.

Differentiation posturing has been tried before the other May elections and it's always failed.

It might still work for 2015 even if it doesn't work before then, because a lot of the seats they're defending are against Con with no Lab presence to speak of. They can't have left-wing voters thinking they're exactly like the Tories, but they only need to be preferred Con, not deeply loved.

During an election campaign you don't think it will occur to any political journo or debate moderator to ask Clegg why he stuck with Gove if his influence was so malign? Rest assured they will and not just on that particular piece of differentiation posturing.

Gove didn't just pop up overnight so that's years of coalition Education policy Clegg and lib dem activists are going to somehow have to explain away. Gove posturing plays well with lib dems but so do plenty of other things that Clegg won't be so keen to differentiate against.
Gove is just not enough by himself to do anything meaningful for them. He's an easy target but you know who else is? Clegg. His polling is still even more laughable than Gove's.

He'll say he was in a coalition so he couldn't do everything he wanted. That's a perfectly adequate response.

You're right that Gove will be of limited help on its own, but they'll try to differentiate on a whole bunch of issues, including the NHS, which left-wing voters will have observed is still there despite five years of Tory-led government.

I'm not denying they'll lose seats, but they'll lose fewer than if they hadn't done the differentiation stuff. I think the way the Labour vote stayed low in Eastleigh shows that left-wing voters are ready to vote for them to keep the Tories out, at least in seats they already hold.

Scrapheap_as_was

In the most important Spurs match of the season - over an hour gone.

Shots on goal by Spurs?

0

Scrapheap_as_was

There's one!

TSE bet on Ade to score first I believe?

taffys

hat Gove needs is results his idea's/changes are working and he needs them Quick.

This autumn's pisas should be interesting. I wonder if it will show clear blue water between England and Wales.

I won't spoil the thread by mentioning Wales yet. I'll let the left have a huge rant at Gove before talking about their own far direr performance.

Mick_Pork

edmundintokyo said:

He'll say he was in a coalition so he couldn't do everything he wanted. That's a perfectly adequate response.

It's certainly worked a treat so far, hasn't it?

edmundintokyo said:

You're right that Gove will be of limited help on its own, but they'll try to differentiate on a whole bunch of issues, including the NHS, which left-wing voyers will have observed is still there despite five years of Tory-led government.

I'm not denying they'll lose seats, but they'll lose fewer than if they hadn't done the differentiation stuff. I think the way the Labour vote stayed low in Eastleigh shows that left-wing voters are ready to vote for them to keep the Tories out, at least in seats they already hold.

The more obvious it is that the differentiation is mere posturing the less chance it has to work at all. It will be pretty damn obvious it's skin deep unless Clegg has a better excuse than 'the tories made me do it' for all those votes and policies lib dem MPs supported and voted with Cameron and the tories on.

If Clegg truly wanted to be seen as differentiated against the tories then the time to do it was on day 1 of the coalition. Not desperately before elections and during an election campaign five years afterward.

Differentiation would have a far better chance of working if it came from someone other than the toxic Clegg but his ostrich faction of spinners actually seem to think Clegg is somehow not a problem as well. They will find out the hard way that he is if he's still there come 2015.

The voter could hardly miss Clegg and the lib dems opposing Cammie on AV and Lords reform. So there's actual real differences that weren't synthetic posturing but did the lib dems and Clegg no good at all.

ThomasNashe

Ultimately, it's not really about particular policies. The chief problem with Gove is that he comes across as smug and self-satisfied. There is hope though. Alec Salmond - who I think many impartial observers would regard as the most gifted politician of his generation - also used to suffer from this affliction. But very wisely, he toned down his tendency to come across as a clever dick, and propensity to patronise his interviewers some ten years ago. Gove, who clearly has talent, should do the same if he has serious long-term ambitions.

Pulpstar

Gove is a bit like Ed Balls is to Labour, the perceived weak/unpopular link which both sides are going to relentlessly go after.

Danny565

edmundintokyo said:

He'll say he was in a coalition so he couldn't do everything he wanted. That's a perfectly adequate response.

I don't think the average voter will see it as an adequate response though. To them, it will sound like "I didn't agree with it, but I decided to let him do what he wanted anyway because I cared more about keeping my snout in the ministerial trough than upholding my principles".

This leads me onto another point which baffles me about the Lib Dems over the past few years. I've often seen them rationalise their decision to go into coalition with the Tories with something along the lines of "imagine if we hadn't gone into government, then people would think we'd NEVER be prepared to go into government!" Why exactly would that be a problem? I would say most people vote for them because they didn't want them to go into government and become part of the hated Establishment. If they had not gone into Coalition, and instead just supported a minority Tory govt on an issue-by-issue basis, they would've been able to say "we turned down the chance of power in order to achieve real results on big issues for you", and they would've been in a much stronger position imo. But the fact the Lib Dem leadership seemed to view getting into government in and of itself as more important than achieving specific goals is very revealing.

I'm not denying they'll lose seats, but they'll lose fewer than if they hadn't done the differentiation stuff. I think the way the Labour vote stayed low in Eastleigh shows that left-wing voters are ready to vote for them to keep the Tories out, at least in seats they already hold.

Even in Eastleigh, the Lib Dem vote dropped by 13%, which in most LD/Tory marginals would be more than enough for them to be toppled.

TheScreamingEagles

Scrapheap_as_was said:

There's one!

TSE bet on Ade to score first I believe?

I did at 6/1.

Which is a bit disappointing considering I had a 40/1 first goal scorer winner yesterday.

Neil

ThomasNashe said:

Gove, who clearly has talent, should do the same if he has serious long-term ambitions.

One of the points in his favour is that he doesnt seem (from the outside at least) to be interested in positioning himself for bigger jobs than the one he currently has. If he is doing so then a separate point in his favour is that he's far less obvious about it than others.

Mick_Pork

Danny565 said:

I've often seen them rationalise their decision to go into coalition with the Tories with something along the lines of "imagine if we hadn't gone into government, then people would think we'd NEVER be prepared to go into government!"

They have been in coalition before though. I've seen it. It was fairly unimpressive but they weren't reduced to a taxi full of MSPs after they were in coalition with labour in the scottish parliament. Now they are.

edmundintokyo

Danny565 said:

edmundintokyo said:

He'll say he was in a coalition so he couldn't do everything he wanted. That's a perfectly adequate response.

I don't think the average voter will see it as an adequate response though. To them, it will sound like "I didn't agree with it, but I decided to let him do what he wanted anyway because I cared more about keeping my snout in the ministerial trough than upholding my principles".

This leads me onto another point which baffles me about the Lib Dems over the past few years. I've often seen them rationalise their decision to go into coalition with the Tories with something along the lines of "imagine if we hadn't gone into government, then people would think we'd NEVER be prepared to go into government!" Why exactly would that be a problem? I would say most people vote for them because they didn't want them to go into government and become part of the hated Establishment.

I'm not denying they'll lose seats, but they'll lose fewer than if they hadn't done the differentiation stuff. I think the way the Labour vote stayed low in Eastleigh shows that left-wing voters are ready to vote for them to keep the Tories out, at least in seats they already hold.

Even in Eastleigh, the Lib Dem vote dropped by 13%, which in most LD/Tory marginals would be more than enough for them to be toppled.


Their vote share dropped but the beneficiaries seem to have been UKIP not Con. Since UKIP pulled from Con as well as Lib, their vote share margin over Con hardly dropped at all.

Anyhow the question relevant to this discussion is whether they'll still be able to squeeze the Lab vote in seats they're defending against Con, or whether left-wing voters will decide they're just the same as the Tories and vote Lab or stay at home. The point of differentiation is to make that happen, and the evidence from Eastleigh is that it works.

CarlottaVance

Interesting data on 'Better Together' and 'Yes Scotland' (we're frequently told one is brilliant, the other rubbish...)

To what extent do you agree or disagree that (Better Together/Yes Scotland) clearly outlined the benefits of Scotland (staying in the UK/becoming independent)

Agree: 32 / 34
Neither: 25 / 21
Disagree: 33 / 37
Don't know: 10 / 8

To what extent do you agree or disagree that the (Better Together/Yes Scotland) campaign needs to be seen and heard more in the debate:

Agree: 64 / 56
Neither: 18 / 19
Disagree: 10 / 19
Don't Know: 8 / 6

Not much to choose in terms of getting their case across, though more think they don't need to hear more from Yes Scotland......

TwistedFireStopper

Charles said:

Neil said:

Gove isnt all that bad, he is a committed trade unionist after all.

Neil - said on the last thread that if members are not committed to the objective they wont vote for action.

Unfortunately they just tend not to vote at all. Hence you get strike actions approved by a small minority of members.

That's tough titties for the members who can't be arsed to vote. It's literally as easy as putting a cross in the box of your choice, and then sending it off in a prepaid envelope. If members can't be arsed to do that, then they have to accept the consequences.

Mick_Pork

Theuniondivvie said:

Tom Hunter's project to inject some hard data and evidence into the indy debate has some interesting results. Bettertogether and associated UKOKers seemed to have got the wrong idea about what's important to the voters.

'Only 3% and 2% of those polled respectively said EU membership or currency was most important to them in deciding how to vote in the referendum yet our politicians see these issues as priorities.'

In addition there's an ongoing argument between those who say we're all one big happy, homogenised Brit family, and those who say there are major difference between Scotland & the rest of the UK. Regarding immigration, the latter certainly seems to be the case. The last Yougov UK wide 'Issues' poll had immigration 2nd highest.

'When asked which of a prompted list of seventeen issues was most important in deciding how you might vote, the economy and job prospects were tied equally with 15% indicating these issues were most important, followed by healthcare (11%), pensions/benefits (8%), education (8%) and then personal finances (6%). Immigration (4%) ranked higher than EU membership and currency.'

http://tinyurl.com/oj2gu3e

The PB tories are always wrong. The PB tories never learn.

MikeSmithson

Pulpstar said:

Gove is a bit like Ed Balls is to Labour, the perceived weak/unpopular link which both sides are going to relentlessly go after.

Spot on. A year ago Osborne might have been the man but he has staged something of a recovery.

If anything LAB will play the Gove card harder than the Lib Dems. Remember their main content objective is to keep the 2010 LDs on board and being Anti-Gove is probably quite good positioning

Mick_Pork

Greg Siskind ‏@gsiskind

Hypocrisy from anti-immigrant Cameron -Immigration minister resigns for employing illegal immigrant - http://goo.gl/alerts/ZJ3z #GoogleAlerts


Colin Yeo ‏@ColinYeo1 28m

Mark Harper on the Go Home vans: "I don’t see any problem": http://buff.ly/1gaJlkZ

CarlottaVance

Should there be a debate between Salmond & Cameron - net agree (2011 Holyrood vote):

Con: +21
SNP: +65

Why would SNP supporters be three times as anxious for the debate to take place as Con supporters? :Innocent Face:

Neil

Italy are 18.5 to win on betfair. And yet the game is still (somehow) all square after half an hour.

Scrapheap_as_was

After seeing the Fulham team put out by the ex-Man U man, I'm thinking this could see Man U score 7 or more today. What odds on a hat trick by Rooney or RVP?

Mick_Pork

A reminder that while the lib dems were flatlining on 10% it wasn't Farage that booted the kippers off of 5% and really kickstarted their rise to where the are now.

It was Osbrowne and his omnishambles.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/96/UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png

Even if Osbrowne does nothing else but hide during 2015, like he did in the 2010 election campaign, then that's going to be on him. Obrowne helped persuade soft tory kipper waverers to jump ship over to Farage. Which they then did and have kept right on doing.

Pulpstar

TheScreamingEagles said:

Scrapheap_as_was said:

There's one!

TSE bet on Ade to score first I believe?

I did at 6/1.

Which is a bit disappointing considering I had a 40/1 first goal scorer winner yesterday.

I've got a small violin, would you like to hear me play it ?

Mick_Pork

CarlottaVance said:

Should there be a debate between Salmond & Cameron - net agree (2011 Holyrood vote):

Con: +21
SNP: +65

Why would SNP supporters be three times as anxious for the debate to take place as Con supporters? :Innocent Face:

Because you know Cammie's a coward :Innocent Face:

Same reason for this.

Nick Clegg: I'd relish meeting Nigel Farage in televised election debates

The Deputy Prime Minister says David Cameron should not use Ukip's possible involvement as an 'excuse' to avoid debating the top three parties

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nick-clegg/10553553/Nick-Clegg-Id-relish-meeting-Nigel-Farage-in-televised-election-debates.html

And this.

Tim Montgomerie ‏@TimMontgomerie Feb 3

From @jameskirkup's evening email: "It has now been 230 days since David Cameron gave a full press conference in the UK". Not good.

Fop Chicken.

LOL

Charles

Smarmeron said:

@Charles
"Hence you get strike actions approved by a small minority of members. "
And governments elected by a small minority of voters?

Each MP receives the most votes in his or her constituency.

The government is formed by the person who can command the votes of a majority of the House.

Voters don't elect governments.

Neil

@Charles

It's called democracy, if you dont like it you have to come up with a better alternative.

CarlottaVance

Mick_Pork said:

CarlottaVance said:

Should there be a debate between Salmond & Cameron - net agree (2011 Holyrood vote):

Con: +21
SNP: +65

Why would SNP supporters be three times as anxious for the debate to take place as Con supporters? :Innocent Face:

Because you know Cammie's a coward :Innocent Face:

And you know its not going to happen.....hence all the name calling.....bladder trouble?

CarlottaVance

Maria Eagle not politicising the floods:

http://labourlist.org/2014/02/8-ways-in-which-the-government-have-botched-their-response-to-the-floods/

Pulpstar

MikeSmithson said:

Pulpstar said:

Gove is a bit like Ed Balls is to Labour, the perceived weak/unpopular link which both sides are going to relentlessly go after.

Spot on. A year ago Osborne might have been the man but he has staged something of a recovery.

If anything LAB will play the Gove card harder than the Lib Dems. Remember their main content objective is to keep the 2010 LDs on board and being Anti-Gove is probably quite good positioning

Osborne is not so liked I feel but is difficult to attack whilst the economy does well, which vindicates him as a chancellor. The best Labour can really hope for is a stalemate/draw on that front.
I've got Balls for next chancellor backed at both 3-1 and 7-2 amongst my basket of bets.
A year ago Osborne going was the biggest worry for that, now it is Balls himself - although I think both will stay till next GE. Balls is certainly more vulnerable than Osborne though I think he stays - to let him go would be a massive capitulation by Miliband, so he can't.

MikeSmithson

Why is Salmond so frightened of debating with Darling or Carmichael ? He looks like the chicken

isam

Scrapheap_as_was said:

After seeing the Fulham team put out by the ex-Man U man, I'm thinking this could see Man U score 7 or more today. What odds on a hat trick by Rooney or RVP?

RvP is 10/1, small value I think

Ladbrokes mobile are 4/1 Rvp FGS, that's a good bet that I cant get on!

Charles

TwistedFireStopper said:

Charles said:

Neil said:

Gove isnt all that bad, he is a committed trade unionist after all.

Neil - said on the last thread that if members are not committed to the objective they wont vote for action.

Unfortunately they just tend not to vote at all. Hence you get strike actions approved by a small minority of members.

That's tough titties for the members who can't be arsed to vote. It's literally as easy as putting a cross in the box of your choice, and then sending it off in a prepaid envelope. If members can't be arsed to do that, then they have to accept the consequences.

Of course. But Neil's point that we could conclude from the fact that they didn't vote against the strike action they supported it.

I would conclude that they didn't really give a monkey's.

Charles

Mick_Pork said:

Greg Siskind ‏@gsiskind

Hypocrisy from anti-immigrant Cameron -Immigration minister resigns for employing illegal immigrant - http://goo.gl/alerts/ZJ3z #GoogleAlerts


Colin Yeo ‏@ColinYeo1 28m

Mark Harper on the Go Home vans: "I don’t see any problem": http://buff.ly/1gaJlkZ

Does that Greg person have a different meaning of the word "hypocrisy" than everyone else?

Hypocrisy would be brazening it out. As it was he resigned quickly and cleanly.

CarlottaVance

The Swiss have narrowly approved introducing limits on immigration - it will be interesting to see how the EU reacts.....particularly pour encourager les autres......

Charles

Neil said:

@Charles

It's called democracy, if you dont like it you have to come up with a better alternative.

See my reply to TFS:

You can't conclude, as you argued, that they supported the strike action because they didn't vote against. All you can conclude is that they didn't vote against.

I would argue that the number of people who positively voted *for* strike action is a better indication of the number of people who, y'know, positively support strike action

MonikerDiCanio

MikeSmithson said:

Why is Salmond so frightened of debating with Darling or Carmichael ? He looks like the chicken

They're Scottish. Not good enough for elitist snob Salmond.

CarlottaVance

Charles said:

Mick_Pork said:

Greg Siskind ‏@gsiskind

Hypocrisy from anti-immigrant Cameron -Immigration minister resigns for employing illegal immigrant - http://goo.gl/alerts/ZJ3z #GoogleAlerts


Colin Yeo ‏@ColinYeo1 28m

Mark Harper on the Go Home vans: "I don’t see any problem": http://buff.ly/1gaJlkZ

Does that Greg person have a different meaning of the word "hypocrisy" than everyone else?

Hypocrisy would be brazening it out. As it was he resigned quickly and cleanly.Unlike Labour's Baroness Scotland....who didn't resign at all......

Charles

MikeSmithson said:

Why is Salmond so frightened of debating with Darling or Carmichael ? He looks like the chicken

Nah, he just looks like a self-aggrandising tit.

The First Minister of Scotland is not, currently, the constitutional equal of the Prime Minister of the UK.

If 'Yes' wins the referendum then he will be. Until then he's not. Carmichael is probably the most appropriate peer. Darling would be suitable although he only has a political rather than a government role, so it would just be two senior politicos debating rather than anything else.

Scrapheap_as_was

isam said:

Scrapheap_as_was said:

After seeing the Fulham team put out by the ex-Man U man, I'm thinking this could see Man U score 7 or more today. What odds on a hat trick by Rooney or RVP?

RvP is 10/1, small value I think

Ladbrokes mobile are 4/1 Rvp FGS, that's a good bet that I cant get on!

I've bet on RVP and also Rooney to score 2 or more goals.

CarlottaVance

MonikerDiCanio said:

MikeSmithson said:

Why is Salmond so frightened of debating with Darling or Carmichael ? He looks like the chicken

They're Scottish. Not good enough for elitist snob Salmond.

As Darling said yesterday:

"I will but I don't think he'll do it. Because he's very status-conscious. He regards himself as a head of state. As we say in Scotland, he's got a very good conceit of himself. He's very full of himself."

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/feb/07/alistair-darling-accuses-alex-salmond-head-of-state-scottish-independence

Mick_Pork

Lib dem leadership joke 'Bruiser' Carmichael gives a debate masterclass in how not to do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1YZik1k40o

So hilariously bad he ended up greetin for the moderator Rhona tae save him.

Awww.. the poor wee thing.

LOL

The lib dems have a taxi full of MSPs are behind the kippers (in scotland!) in some polling and by-election results and are fast heading for complete irrelevance in scotland thanks to calamity Clegg and his ostrich faction of spinners.

Mick_Pork

Charles said:

As it was he resigned quickly and cleanly.

You think nobody knows why?

Cammie and his out of touch twits at CCHQ are utterly terrified of Farage and the kippers laughing their heads off at an immigration shambles so soon after Cammie's own backbench MPs humiliated him over immigration.

Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics Jan 30

David Cameron left bruised and humiliated after being forced to raise the white flag to Tory immigration rebels: http://bit.ly/1loqGaO

When he isn't running scared of his own MPs he's running scared of the kippers, Farage, Salmond, press conferences, water.

The Andrew Marr Show ‏@MarrShow 6h

Eric Pickles - "I'll apologise" - to Somerset farmer Edwin White who wrote to Cameron 6mths ago concerned warning about #floods #marrshow


A Libertarian Rebel ‏@A_Liberty_Rebel Feb 6

What is it with David Cameron & his slow response to floods? http://bit.ly/1ixZpxA Not at all out of character, apparently

Fop Chicken.

Theuniondivvie

MikeSmithson said:

Why is Salmond so frightened of debating with Darling or Carmichael ? He looks like the chicken

Salmond will debate Darling at some point, once D(ebate) Day Dodger Cameron has had all the juice squeezed out of him.
Carmichael? A representative of a party that's in danger of being pushed into fifth place in Scotland, and third choice for a post the Libdems themselves said should be abolished? There's the organ grinder's monkey, then there's a flea on that monkey.

anotherDave

Mick_Pork said:

Differentiation posturing has been tried before the other May elections and it's always failed.

I can't wait to see what the Tory vs France pre-election tiff is going to be.

Scrapheap_as_was

David Moyes = Ed M
Rene M = Gove

CarlottaVance

Tim Stanley tweets: Latest #yougov poll on Michael Gove: 132% think schools are fine and should be left alone

Mick_Pork

anotherDave said:

Mick_Pork said:

Differentiation posturing has been tried before the other May elections and it's always failed.

I can't wait to see what the Tory vs France pre-election tiff is going to be.

Cammie's last EU flounce ended rather badly for him.

Eurosceptics treated Cameron like a foul smell

The last time David Cameron updated the Commons on his return from Brussels he was treated like a hero. The acclaim appeared to have no limits; the prodigal son, had he seen this display of lionising, must have felt like a big disappointment upon his own return. What a difference a follow-up summit makes. Today the Tory eurosceptics edged away from the PM, collectively wrinkling their noses as if he had made a bad smell.

Betrayed by their hero, Cameron's eurosceptics are quickly returning to their bitter, angry roots.

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2012/01/31/sketch-eurosceptics-treated-cameron-like-a-foul-smell

Not that you would have known that from the gullible PB tories praising the flounce to the skies at the time while others laughed at the obvious posturing.

If CCHQ manufacture a 'row' before the EU elections then Cammie had best be 100% certain where it may lead and just how far his backbenchers may take things if they decide to step in

CarlottaVance

A majority of Scots think taxes will rise if Scotland becomes independent while less than half believe Alex Salmond's claim that the nation could keep the pound in a currency union with England.

http://www.realradio-scotland.co.uk/my-real/news/indy-poll-most-think-taxes-w/6244f

MarkSenior

CarlottaVance said:

A majority of Scots think taxes will rise if Scotland becomes independent while less than half believe Alex Salmond's claim that the nation could keep the pound in a currency union with England.

http://www.realradio-scotland.co.uk/my-real/news/indy-poll-most-think-taxes-w/6244f

Yes is toast , Pork is roast or will be in about 1hr 30 mins in my oven .

Mick_Pork

Benedict Brogan ‏@benedictbrogan Feb 8

Tim Yeo: David Cameron should ignore the euro-obsessives and stand up to Ukip http://tgr.ph/1izB4YX

Fop Chicken.

SMukesh

Two free schools have been ordered to close and the head of one has been arrested for corruption.That`s public money down the drain.No wonder Gove wants his own men in charge of OFSTED to stop the damaging headlines.

Alanbrooke

SMukesh said:

Two free schools have been ordered to close and the head of one has been arrested for corruption.That`s public money down the drain.No wonder Gove wants his own men in charge of OFSTED to stop the damaging headlines.

Your point being ?

isam

YES WINS THE REFERENDUM!

electionista ‏@electionista 26m

Switzerland - vote on introducing immigration quotas Yes 50.3%(1,463,954 votes) No 49.7%(1,444,438) Turnout: 56.5% pic.twitter.com/SCxa7z2hgB

Neil

isam said:

YES WINS THE REFERENDUM!

electionista ‏@electionista 26m

Switzerland - vote on introducing immigration quotas Yes 50.3%(1,463,954 votes) No 49.7%(1,444,438) Turnout: 56.5% pic.twitter.com/SCxa7z2hgB

Less than a third voted for it though so the Swiss overall dont support the measure.

Alanbrooke

Neil said:

isam said:

YES WINS THE REFERENDUM!

electionista ‏@electionista 26m

Switzerland - vote on introducing immigration quotas Yes 50.3%(1,463,954 votes) No 49.7%(1,444,438) Turnout: 56.5% pic.twitter.com/SCxa7z2hgB

Less than a third voted for it though so the Swiss overall dont support the measure.

so like Trade Union votes then.

Mick_Pork

MarkSenior said:

Pork is roast or will be in about 1hr 30 mins in my oven .

Yellow tories, roasted alive.

How will the Lib Dems actually do?

It is always troublesome to translate Liberal Democrat votes into seats. The party can have elections where it gains seats despite losing votes (as in 1997) and vice versa (as in 2010). But, even if the party struggles back up to 15-17 per cent, there is no way it will not result in a loss of seats. Local election results suggest that it will be near-impossible for the party to hold a number of metropolitan seats against Labour (Manchester Withington being the most drastic example).

Scotland is also a huge problem. Although their polling support is down by the same 12 points or so there as in England, they were already at rock bottom in half of Scotland in 2010 (losing 12 points would give them negative votes in 30 Scottish seats). The drop must be concentrated in the seats where they polled reasonably well in 2010. They are in serious danger of losing up to 10 of their 11 Scottish seats.

http://www.progressonline.org.uk/2014/01/31/how-will-the-lib-dems-actually-do/

Calamity Clegg's ostrich faction of spinners are going to have a spot of bother spinning their way out of the May election results. We will at least be treated to the same comedy gold from Senior like all the other times he's been pitifully hinting at that oft delayed lib dem surge.

Here's his surge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png

The lib dems flatlining at 10% since late 2010 and showing no sign whatsoever of changing.

Neil

@Alanbrooke

You saw right through me!

MarkSenior

Mick_Pork said:

MarkSenior said:

Pork is roast or will be in about 1hr 30 mins in my oven .

Yellow tories, roasted alive.

How will the Lib Dems actually do?

It is always troublesome to translate Liberal Democrat votes into seats. The party can have elections where it gains seats despite losing votes (as in 1997) and vice versa (as in 2010). But, even if the party struggles back up to 15-17 per cent, there is no way it will not result in a loss of seats. Local election results suggest that it will be near-impossible for the party to hold a number of metropolitan seats against Labour (Manchester Withington being the most drastic example).

Scotland is also a huge problem. Although their polling support is down by the same 12 points or so there as in England, they were already at rock bottom in half of Scotland in 2010 (losing 12 points would give them negative votes in 30 Scottish seats). The drop must be concentrated in the seats where they polled reasonably well in 2010. They are in serious danger of losing up to 10 of their 11 Scottish seats.

http://www.progressonline.org.uk/2014/01/31/how-will-the-lib-dems-actually-do/

Calamity Clegg's ostrich faction of spinners are going to have a spot of bother spinning their way out of the May election results. We will at least be treated to the same comedy gold from Senior like all the other times he's been pitifully hinting at that oft delayed lib dem surge.

Here's his surge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png

The lib dems flatlining at 10% since late 2010 and showing no sign whatsoever of changing.

Repeating the same quotes day after day week after week does not making it any more likely for them to come true .

SMukesh

Alanbrooke said:

SMukesh said:

Two free schools have been ordered to close and the head of one has been arrested for corruption.That`s public money down the drain.No wonder Gove wants his own men in charge of OFSTED to stop the damaging headlines.

Your point being ?

His flag-ship free schools policy is a failure mate.And the Tories don`t want that exposed so close to the general election.

Mick_Pork

MarkSenior said:

Repeating the same quotes day after day week after week does not making it any more likely for them to come true .

While you sticking your head in the sand isn't exactly compelling evidence when stacked up against all the polling and an analysis by Lewis Baston.

Here's some Ashcroft polling on the same theme since that is so popular on here.

poll suggests Lib Dems face Scottish mainland wipeout

Although that vote change won’t be universal across every seat, the figures suggest that only Orkney and Shetland would remain in Lib Dem hands. Berwickshire, Roxburgh & Selkirk would fall to the Tories, while Labour would pick up East Dunbartonshire and Edinburgh West.

The other seven seats would be won by the SNP - Aberdeenshire West & Kincardine; Argyll & Bute; Caithness, Sutherland & Easter Ross; North East Fife; Gordon; Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch & Strathspey; and Ross, Skye & Lochaber.

If the results were to be repeated in the 2015 general election then such a scenario would see Sir Menzies Campbell, Danny Alexander and current Scottish Secretary Michael Moore all lose their seats.

http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/6902-new-poll-suggests-lib-dems-face-scottish-mainland-wipeout

You just keep right on thinking everything is going wonderfully despite being proved wrong every May. Calamity Clegg is also toxic. His polling is laughable. But if you stick your fingers in your ears and close your eyes it might look and sound better I suppose.

CarlottaVance

SMukesh said:

Alanbrooke said:

SMukesh said:

Two free schools have been ordered to close and the head of one has been arrested for corruption.That`s public money down the drain.No wonder Gove wants his own men in charge of OFSTED to stop the damaging headlines.

Your point being ?

His flag-ship free schools policy is a failure mate.And the Tories don`t want that exposed so close to the general election.

How is it a failure? Two schools closing, corruption exposed and being pursued - much better than hushing it up.....

Tell us about the 'success' of Labour education in Wales.....

compouter2

For those not joining the PB Hodges bowing at the Temple of Gove. BEWARE, as OGH has found out, he will set one of his minions on to you.........TOADY FETCH!

Alanbrooke

SMukesh said:

Alanbrooke said:

SMukesh said:

Two free schools have been ordered to close and the head of one has been arrested for corruption.That`s public money down the drain.No wonder Gove wants his own men in charge of OFSTED to stop the damaging headlines.

Your point being ?

His flag-ship free schools policy is a failure mate.And the Tories don`t want that exposed so close to the general election.

Can't see how you draw that conclusion. Since LEA schools have also lots of recorded fraud, waste of public money and political appointees are you writing that sector off too ?

MikeSmithson

MarkSenior said:

Mick_Pork said:

MarkSenior said:

Pork is roast or will be in about 1hr 30 mins in my oven .

Yellow tories, roasted alive.

How will the Lib Dems actually do?

It is always troublesome to translate Liberal Democrat votes into seats. The party can have elections where it gains seats despite losing votes (as in 1997) and vice versa (as in 2010). But, even if the party struggles back up to 15-17 per cent, there is no way it will not result in a loss of seats. Local election results suggest that it will be near-impossible for the party to hold a number of metropolitan seats against Labour (Manchester Withington being the most drastic example).

Scotland is also a huge problem. Although their polling support is down by the same 12 points or so there as in England, they were already at rock bottom in half of Scotland in 2010 (losing 12 points would give them negative votes in 30 Scottish seats). The drop must be concentrated in the seats where they polled reasonably well in 2010. They are in serious danger of losing up to 10 of their 11 Scottish seats.

http://www.progressonline.org.uk/2014/01/31/how-will-the-lib-dems-actually-do/

Calamity Clegg's ostrich faction of spinners are going to have a spot of bother spinning their way out of the May election results. We will at least be treated to the same comedy gold from Senior like all the other times he's been pitifully hinting at that oft delayed lib dem surge.

Here's his surge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png

The lib dems flatlining at 10% since late 2010 and showing no sign whatsoever of changing.

Repeating the same quotes day after day week after week does not making it any more likely for them to come true .

How are Salmond's spinners going to explain the referendum disaster in September?

I thought Sturgeon's response to Cameron's speech showed how barren the SNP was when it came to ideas and policy argument. All she could do is try to put shite over Dave and accuse him of cowardice.

It reminded me of Slamond's classic moment when a said the Economist would "rue the day" it dared ro make a bit of fun of the SNP.

Your party doesn't hack it and that is being slowly revealed.

SMukesh

Alanbrooke said:

SMukesh said:

Alanbrooke said:

SMukesh said:

Two free schools have been ordered to close and the head of one has been arrested for corruption.That`s public money down the drain.No wonder Gove wants his own men in charge of OFSTED to stop the damaging headlines.

Your point being ?

His flag-ship free schools policy is a failure mate.And the Tories don`t want that exposed so close to the general election.

Can't see how you draw that conclusion. Since LEA schools have also lots of recorded fraud, waste of public money and political appointees are you writing that sector off too ?

A lot of free schools have very small number of pupils for the amount of money being spent.Essentially he`s used government money to fund a small number of pushy parents look after their own.And the chickens will come home to roost.The Tories undertsandably don`t want that to happen before the general election.

compouter2

Speaking of Gove, is he still fighting F.O.I. requests on Free Schools?

Theuniondivvie

MikeSmithson said:

Your party doesn't hack it and that is being slowly revealed.

A tellingly Freudian reply to Mark Senior.

MarkSenior

@MickPork
An "analysis" by long time Labour supporter Lewis Baston posted on a Labour blog . Yep , let us put lots of weight into its impartiality . Alternatively we could look at the last Survation poll on Scottish VI which had LD support back up to 10% in Holyrood VI .

Scott_P

MikeSmithson said:

How are Salmond's spinners going to explain the referendum disaster in September?

Blame the English.

Mick_Pork

MikeSmithson said:

How are Salmond's spinners going to explain the referendum disaster in September?

Suddenly independence looks within Salmond’s grasp in new ICM poll

Time to start betting on YES

http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2014/01/26/suddenly-independence-looks-within-salmond-s-grasp-in-new-icm-poll/

I seem to remember the hilarity of being told that winning the 2012 May local elections in scotland against labour in both seats and popular vote was also somehow a 'disaster' for the SNP. That was while the lib dems were getting beaten by a man in a penguin suit. Well at least they've moved on from that to getting beaten by kippers in scotland.

Alanbrooke

SMukesh said:

Alanbrooke said:

SMukesh said:

Alanbrooke said:

SMukesh said:

Two free schools have been ordered to close and the head of one has been arrested for corruption.That`s public money down the drain.No wonder Gove wants his own men in charge of OFSTED to stop the damaging headlines.

Your point being ?

His flag-ship free schools policy is a failure mate.And the Tories don`t want that exposed so close to the general election.

Can't see how you draw that conclusion. Since LEA schools have also lots of recorded fraud, waste of public money and political appointees are you writing that sector off too ?

A lot of free schools have very small number of pupils for the amount of money being spent.Essentially he`s used government money to fund a small number of pushy parents look after their own.And the chickens will come home to roost.The Tories undertsandably don`t want that to happen before the general election.

I thought you were all for small class sizes. If we hadn't wasted £11 billion on a NHS computer system could we have small classes for all ?

Morris_Dancer

Good evening, everyone.

Was quite entertained by the rugby today, but stopped watching early in the second half when the French stretched their lead substantially. What happened to warrant the red cards?

MikeSmithson

Mick_Pork said:

MikeSmithson said:

How are Salmond's spinners going to explain the referendum disaster in September?

Suddenly independence looks within Salmond’s grasp in new ICM poll

Time to start betting on YES

http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2014/01/26/suddenly-independence-looks-within-salmond-s-grasp-in-new-icm-poll/

I seem to remember the hilarity of being told that winning the 2012 May local elections in scotland against labour in both seats and popular vote was also somehow a 'disaster'. That was while the lib dems were getting beaten by a man in a penguin suit. Well at least they've moved on from that to getting beaten by kippers in scotland.





Touchy touchy. Rather a sad sight. 2012 showed what political pygmies the SNP were. They set up winning Glasgow as their top target. What happened - Labour returned to power there with a majority.

The abiity to manage expectations is a clear political skill that your shower lacks.

You really are rather pathetic.

BTW - are you Nicola Sturgeon?

richardDodd

Mick Pork keeps bangng on about gullible PB Tories and yet he swallows Salmonds guff...ya gorra larf

compouter2

A big problem for The Tory Party and Gove in particular is if Labour win, all the information being blocked by Gove at the moment, despite, F.O.I. requests, will immediately be out in the open and whatever he is hiding, will be known by all. A bit stupid of him to fight these F.O.I. requests as it will all come out in the open eventually.

SMukesh

Alanbrooke said:

SMukesh said:

Alanbrooke said:

SMukesh said:

Alanbrooke said:

SMukesh said:

Two free schools have been ordered to close and the head of one has been arrested for corruption.That`s public money down the drain.No wonder Gove wants his own men in charge of OFSTED to stop the damaging headlines.

Your point being ?

His flag-ship free schools policy is a failure mate.And the Tories don`t want that exposed so close to the general election.

Can't see how you draw that conclusion. Since LEA schools have also lots of recorded fraud, waste of public money and political appointees are you writing that sector off too ?

A lot of free schools have very small number of pupils for the amount of money being spent.Essentially he`s used government money to fund a small number of pushy parents look after their own.And the chickens will come home to roost.The Tories undertsandably don`t want that to happen before the general election.

I thought you were all for small class sizes. If we hadn't wasted £11 billion on a NHS computer system could we have small classes for all ?

The NHS IT project is not an excuse for this government not to get it`s education policy right.Tories like you are all for spending public money wisely till it`s your own wasting it on pet projects which looked doomed from the start.Stop being so tribal and think whether your response would have been the same had a Labour minister been engaged in wasteful use of public money.

Alanbrooke

MikeSmithson said:

Mick_Pork said:

MikeSmithson said:

How are Salmond's spinners going to explain the referendum disaster in September?

Suddenly independence looks within Salmond’s grasp in new ICM poll

Time to start betting on YES

http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2014/01/26/suddenly-independence-looks-within-salmond-s-grasp-in-new-icm-poll/

I seem to remember the hilarity of being told that winning the 2012 May local elections in scotland against labour in both seats and popular vote was also somehow a 'disaster'. That was while the lib dems were getting beaten by a man in a penguin suit. Well at least they've moved on from that to getting beaten by kippers in scotland.

Touchy touchy. Rather a sad sight. 2012 showed what political pygmies the SNP were. They set up winning Glasgow as their top target. What happened - Labour returned to power there with a majority.

The abiity to manage expectations is a clear political skill that your shower lacks.

You really are rather pathetic.

BTW - are you Nicola Sturgeon?



more likely Eddie Grundy

TCPoliticalBetting

Mick_Pork said:

....... useless Lib Dems .... Cammie fops ... repeated ad nausuem ....

Mr Pork, as a supporter of Scottish independence I do worry about the choices SNP people like you are making in spending vast amounts of time on here and clearly spending very little time: knocking on Scottish doors, delivering leaflets in Scotland and phoning people in Scotland.
A referendum is not going to be won through endless spinning on this website about all the other nasty parties although you seem to spend very little effort in knocking your main rival in Scotland, Labour. Odd that. So sorry to break that bad news to you old chap, but some one has to.

Mick_Pork

MikeSmithson said:

. 2012 showed what political pygmies the SNP were.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_local_elections,_2012

"The 2012 Scottish local elections, were held on 3 May, in all 32 local authorities. The Scottish National Party (SNP) overtook Labour to win the highest share of the vote, and retained and strengthened its position as the party with most councillors. Labour also made gains, while the Liberal Democrats experienced meltdown, falling behind the Conservatives.


LOL

MikeSmithson said:

You really are rather pathetic.

BTW - are you Nicola Sturgeon?

Are you Nick Clegg?

Touchy touchy.

Mick_Pork

TCPoliticalBetting said:

A referendum Westminster Election is not going to be won with spinning on this website. Sorry to break that bad news to you old chap, but some one has to.

Fixed that for you on this overwhelmingly tory website.

Alanbrooke

SMukesh said:

Alanbrooke said:

SMukesh said:

Alanbrooke said:

SMukesh said:

Alanbrooke said:

SMukesh said:

Two free schools have been ordered to close and the head of one has been arrested for corruption.That`s public money down the drain.No wonder Gove wants his own men in charge of OFSTED to stop the damaging headlines.

Your point being ?

His flag-ship free schools policy is a failure mate.And the Tories don`t want that exposed so close to the general election.

Can't see how you draw that conclusion. Since LEA schools have also lots of recorded fraud, waste of public money and political appointees are you writing that sector off too ?

A lot of free schools have very small number of pupils for the amount of money being spent.Essentially he`s used government money to fund a small number of pushy parents look after their own.And the chickens will come home to roost.The Tories undertsandably don`t want that to happen before the general election.

I thought you were all for small class sizes. If we hadn't wasted £11 billion on a NHS computer system could we have small classes for all ?

The NHS IT project is not an excuse for this government not to get it`s education policy right.Tories like you are all for spending public money wisely till it`s your own wasting it on pet projects which looked doomed from the start.Stop being so tribal and think whether your response would have been the same had a Labour minister been engaged in wasteful use of public money.

I don't think you'll actually find any quotes from me advocating free schools. I happily criticise when HMG wastes money, like our current foreign aid budget. If only you'd been so concerned about taxpayer value for money when Labour were in power then maybe we'd all be several hundred billion quid better off. And Labour ministers waste money by the shedload it's all they know how to do.

CarlottaVance

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Mick_Pork said:

....... useless Lib Dems .... Cammie fops ... repeated ad nausuem ....

Mr Pork, as a supporter of Scottish independence I do worry about the choices SNP people like you are making in spending vast amounts of time on here and clearly spending very little time: knocking on Scottish doors, delivering leaflets in Scotland and phoning people in Scotland.
A referendum is not going to be won with spinning on this website. Sorry to break that bad news to you old chap, but some one has to.

Actually....knocking on doors or leafleting isn't going to make much difference either - Scottish voters don't look to either for sources of information.....nor Gloucester or Bath-based web sites either.....

dr_spyn

Your'll never win anything with Moyes..c. A. Hansen.

Alanbrooke

CarlottaVance said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Mick_Pork said:

....... useless Lib Dems .... Cammie fops ... repeated ad nausuem ....

Mr Pork, as a supporter of Scottish independence I do worry about the choices SNP people like you are making in spending vast amounts of time on here and clearly spending very little time: knocking on Scottish doors, delivering leaflets in Scotland and phoning people in Scotland.
A referendum is not going to be won with spinning on this website. Sorry to break that bad news to you old chap, but some one has to.

Actually....knocking on doors or leafleting isn't going to make much difference either - Scottish voters don't look to either for sources of information.....nor Gloucester or Bath-based web sites either.....

be fair, there's been so much rain in Somerset it been hard to get out much.

TCPoliticalBetting

Mick_Pork said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

A referendum Westminster Election is not going to be won with spinning on this website. Sorry to break that bad news to you old chap, but some one has to.

Fixed that for you on this overwhelmingly tory site.

Mr Pork, the next elections are European ones, followed by the big one in Scotland. Or have you decided that the Scotland one is lost? The Westminster election is NEXT YEAR.