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The latest WH2024 betting – politicalbetting.com

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  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    rcs1000 said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT:

    OSR rebukes Sadiq Khan for his figures that suggest only 10% of vehicles currently driving in the expanded zone, are not exempt from paying the charge.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/30/sadiq-khan-london-mayor-rebuked-transparency-ulez/

    Meanwhile, figures for last year, with the smaller zone around the A406 and A205 (north circular and south circular roads) show revenues of £230m (including £75m in fines), and outstanding fines of £250m.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    Definitely not a money grab, not at all.

    Oh, and the expansion zone is many times bigger than the existing zone.

    If I am reading it correctly 859,000 cars with warrants on passed to enforcement agents last year alone.......

    https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-0485-2324
    Warrants, not cars.
    Cars are only one type of vehicle, and the same vehicle can be represented multiple times.
    Journeys between 22/11/2021 to 15/2/2023:

    Total PCNs Issued PCNs Open PCNs Written Off
    Berkshire 67,558 24,489 12
    Buckinghamshire 48,926 18,042 20
    Essex 144,907 68,851 83
    Greater London 1,173,322 844,505 1,241
    Hertfordshire 47,803 19,167 20

    Some more stats. Enforcement of the existing zone is absolutely terrible, over 70% of fines issued to London registered cars are unpaid. What happens when the zone massively expands?
                      Total PCNs Issued    PCNs Open    PCNs Written Off
    Berkshire 67,558 24,489 12
    Buckinghamshire 48,926 18,042 20
    Essex 144,907 68,851 83
    Greater London 1,173,322 844,505 1,241
    Hertfordshire 47,803 19,167 20
    FYFFY
    What exactly does it mean "written off"?
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    Well civil disobedience is a form of protest I am sure that all those complaining about the laws affecting JSO and XR and supporting them will also be supporting this protest
    The best way is in the ballot box
    The ballot box does nothing because it doesn't matter whether you vote tory,lab or lib dem
    It seems to matter rather a lot to the people who do vote for one of those.

    Just because you don't see a big enough difference to please you, doesn't mean others agree.
    The country has a lot of stupid people....isn't that cannon on the left when you question about how people can vote tory...I just have a wider definition.
    I don't vote anymore because it really is a complete and utter waste of time when all three parties just want to manage the decline.

    When a party comes round with an actual plan that might work I will vote for them in the meantime I will do all I can to break things
    Everybody's wrong apart from me!
    When people keep voting for parties that will do fuck all to improve their lot then yes they are stupid. That is the argument that people like you use for people voting tory. The only difference is I say the same about labour and the lib dems.

    I get you have this impression you are somehow superior to tory voters...no you arent. Starmer will get in next time I have no doubt and under his stewardship I guarantee the lot of the bottom 70 percent of the country will worsen, would be the same if you elect the tories or the lib dems.

    They all follow the same ideology we have had for the last 40 years in this country. The ideology that landed us here. Not my fault you are so tribal as to believe your team will make stuff better by following those same policies if slightly tweaked. You go ahead and believe you are an intelligent person though if it makes you feel better
    Just so you know, I've voted Tory more than I've voted Labour. Back in the day when the Tories were a sensible, liberal party.

    I've never voted Labour. But I might.

    You're the calling (nearly) all voters stupid, not me. You're raging at your own reflection.
    Voters desperately switch from one to the other hoping they will protect there middle class life styles. Sorry they wont. If the tories get in the top 20% will do well and the lifestyles of the bottom 80% will worsen, same will happen under starmer or whoever the leader of the lib dems is.

    The ballot box is no longer a vehicle that can enforce change in the way the country needs because too many are just hoping to protect there lifestyle and hoping in the face of all the evidence that changing their vote from one centrist party to another will do it.

    Sooner the whole country crashes and burns the sooner we can start to rebuild. Yes it will hurt but the only way things might change for the better for those less well off.
    It’s interesting to get this sort of revolutionary opinion on PB as it’s quite unusual. What sort of revolution would you like, a right wing, left wing, religious, or separatist/localist sort?
    You'll be fine, no ruling caste has ever not required unlimited sparkling wine.

    Might have a bearing on the dosage, mind. Left = sweeter from what I know of uncle Joe.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491
    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    Well civil disobedience is a form of protest I am sure that all those complaining about the laws affecting JSO and XR and supporting them will also be supporting this protest
    The best way is in the ballot box
    The ballot box does nothing because it doesn't matter whether you vote tory,lab or lib dem
    It seems to matter rather a lot to the people who do vote for one of those.

    Just because you don't see a big enough difference to please you, doesn't mean others agree.
    The country has a lot of stupid people....isn't that cannon on the left when you question about how people can vote tory...I just have a wider definition.
    I don't vote anymore because it really is a complete and utter waste of time when all three parties just want to manage the decline.

    When a party comes round with an actual plan that might work I will vote for them in the meantime I will do all I can to break things
    Everybody's wrong apart from me!
    When people keep voting for parties that will do fuck all to improve their lot then yes they are stupid. That is the argument that people like you use for people voting tory. The only difference is I say the same about labour and the lib dems.

    I get you have this impression you are somehow superior to tory voters...no you arent. Starmer will get in next time I have no doubt and under his stewardship I guarantee the lot of the bottom 70 percent of the country will worsen, would be the same if you elect the tories or the lib dems.

    They all follow the same ideology we have had for the last 40 years in this country. The ideology that landed us here. Not my fault you are so tribal as to believe your team will make stuff better by following those same policies if slightly tweaked. You go ahead and believe you are an intelligent person though if it makes you feel better
    Just so you know, I've voted Tory more than I've voted Labour. Back in the day when the Tories were a sensible, liberal party.

    I've never voted Labour. But I might.

    You're the calling (nearly) all voters stupid, not me. You're raging at your own reflection.
    Voters desperately switch from one to the other hoping they will protect there middle class life styles. Sorry they wont. If the tories get in the top 20% will do well and the lifestyles of the bottom 80% will worsen, same will happen under starmer or whoever the leader of the lib dems is.

    The ballot box is no longer a vehicle that can enforce change in the way the country needs because too many are just hoping to protect there lifestyle and hoping in the face of all the evidence that changing their vote from one centrist party to another will do it.

    Sooner the whole country crashes and burns the sooner we can start to rebuild. Yes it will hurt but the only way things might change for the better for those less well off.
    It’s interesting to get this sort of revolutionary opinion on PB as it’s quite unusual. What sort of revolution would you like, a right wing, left wing, religious, or separatist/localist sort?
    And if you want a revolution through the ballot box, which party with a chance of having an MP elected is most revolutionary? Scottish Green Party? Green Party of England & Wales? Sinn Fein?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,772

    I’m posting again on the bizarre idea - signed off by the government - to close railway ticket offices.

    Apparently all ticket offices at Euston, for example, are to go.

    This is the “enshittification” of the railways.

    I wonder they don't just close Euston given the disaster they've wrought over HS2.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,646

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    Unlike you to sanction lawbreaking BigG.
    I am not sanctioning anything but it is clear the fines are not being collected
    What Khan and Labour are doing with this clunking fist policy, is bringing the fist down on some of the poorer people in our society. Rather than helping them, where they really can’t help themselves, they are bullying them instead and then prancing around like they are so wonderful and can do no wrong.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    I’m posting again on the bizarre idea - signed off by the government - to close railway ticket offices.

    Apparently all ticket offices at Euston, for example, are to go.

    This is the “enshittification” of the railways.

    Needs to match other services, ie be shitty.

    Apart from the DVLA website, which I belive we established was an example of effective, efficient government.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,656
    edited July 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT:

    OSR rebukes Sadiq Khan for his figures that suggest only 10% of vehicles currently driving in the expanded zone, are not exempt from paying the charge.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/30/sadiq-khan-london-mayor-rebuked-transparency-ulez/

    Meanwhile, figures for last year, with the smaller zone around the A406 and A205 (north circular and south circular roads) show revenues of £230m (including £75m in fines), and outstanding fines of £250m.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    Definitely not a money grab, not at all.

    Oh, and the expansion zone is many times bigger than the existing zone.

    If I am reading it correctly 859,000 cars with warrants on passed to enforcement agents last year alone.......

    https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-0485-2324
    Warrants, not cars.
    Cars are only one type of vehicle, and the same vehicle can be represented multiple times.
    Journeys between 22/11/2021 to 15/2/2023:

    Total PCNs Issued PCNs Open PCNs Written Off
    Berkshire 67,558 24,489 12
    Buckinghamshire 48,926 18,042 20
    Essex 144,907 68,851 83
    Greater London 1,173,322 844,505 1,241
    Hertfordshire 47,803 19,167 20

    Some more stats. Enforcement of the existing zone is absolutely terrible, over 70% of fines issued to London registered cars are unpaid. What happens when the zone massively expands?
                      Total PCNs Issued    PCNs Open    PCNs Written Off
    Berkshire 67,558 24,489 12
    Buckinghamshire 48,926 18,042 20
    Essex 144,907 68,851 83
    Greater London 1,173,322 844,505 1,241
    Hertfordshire 47,803 19,167 20
    FYFFY
    Everyone should know about the <pre> tags. They allow you to paste preformatted (fixed width characters). Just make sure you only indent using spaces (no tabs!), check is looks out in Notepad/Sublime Text and you're golden.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,656

    On topic.
    (Posted by Kari Lake’s campaign manager on twitter btw)

    If anyone thinks that is what DJT looks like under his clothes, then I have a bridge to sell.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,395
    edited July 2023
    ydoethur said:

    I’m posting again on the bizarre idea - signed off by the government - to close railway ticket offices.

    Apparently all ticket offices at Euston, for example, are to go.

    This is the “enshittification” of the railways.

    I wonder they don't just close Euston given the disaster they've wrought over HS2.
    Er, why would they? The HS2 trains aren't coming in, [edit] which leaces plenty of room for the old style Hornby Duplo trains, and all the demolitions make lots more room for queues and overpriced coffee and muffin shops.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,035

    rcs1000 said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT:

    OSR rebukes Sadiq Khan for his figures that suggest only 10% of vehicles currently driving in the expanded zone, are not exempt from paying the charge.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/30/sadiq-khan-london-mayor-rebuked-transparency-ulez/

    Meanwhile, figures for last year, with the smaller zone around the A406 and A205 (north circular and south circular roads) show revenues of £230m (including £75m in fines), and outstanding fines of £250m.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    Definitely not a money grab, not at all.

    Oh, and the expansion zone is many times bigger than the existing zone.

    If I am reading it correctly 859,000 cars with warrants on passed to enforcement agents last year alone.......

    https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-0485-2324
    Warrants, not cars.
    Cars are only one type of vehicle, and the same vehicle can be represented multiple times.
    Journeys between 22/11/2021 to 15/2/2023:

    Total PCNs Issued PCNs Open PCNs Written Off
    Berkshire 67,558 24,489 12
    Buckinghamshire 48,926 18,042 20
    Essex 144,907 68,851 83
    Greater London 1,173,322 844,505 1,241
    Hertfordshire 47,803 19,167 20

    Some more stats. Enforcement of the existing zone is absolutely terrible, over 70% of fines issued to London registered cars are unpaid. What happens when the zone massively expands?
                      Total PCNs Issued    PCNs Open    PCNs Written Off
    Berkshire 67,558 24,489 12
    Buckinghamshire 48,926 18,042 20
    Essex 144,907 68,851 83
    Greater London 1,173,322 844,505 1,241
    Hertfordshire 47,803 19,167 20
    FYFFY
    What exactly does it mean "written off"?
    The diplomats, and foreign cars for whom they can’t trace anyone to bill.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,035
    edited July 2023
    kle4 said:

    I’m posting again on the bizarre idea - signed off by the government - to close railway ticket offices.

    Apparently all ticket offices at Euston, for example, are to go.

    This is the “enshittification” of the railways.

    Needs to match other services, ie be shitty.

    Apart from the DVLA website, which I belive we established was an example of effective, efficient government.
    The only efficient, effective, bit of the DVLA, is that which sells your details to parking ‘enforcement’ companies.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,318
    The forthcoming Horizon news is very welcome.
    It breaks - even more than the revisions to the NIP - that any co-operation with Europe is to be spurned.

    Well done, Sunak and Cleverly.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,646
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for @HYUFD


    "Tied-second lowest SNP vote share in any UK GE poll by any pollster since Oct 2014.

    Scotland Westminster VI (1-2 July):

    SNP 35% (-2)
    Labour 32% (+4)
    Conservative 21% (+1)
    Lib Dem 7% (-2)
    Green 2% (-1)
    Reform 2% (-1)
    Other 1% (+1)"

    +++

    Even if we assume Other is Alba, and give them the whole 1 percent, that has YES supporting parties on 38% and NO supporting parties on 62%. Surely the biggest implied NO lead in many many years. Pre indyref?

    Yes, and this is why I believe some of the VI will creep back to SNP closer to the election. As much as malcolmg wants this not to be true, those who are driven by wanting independence don't have a lot of realistic alternatives.

    Much more interesting would be a Holyrood vote, but that's not going to be til after the WM election.
    You could be right, see my edited comment. Support for indy is still solid. 45% - with NO on 49% (but boy is that NO lead hard to budge!)

    However I believe the psychology behind the YES vote is slowly but surely changing
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-9986075/World-renowned-flintknapper-house-Internet-lives-garden-like-caveman.html
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855

    rcs1000 said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT:

    OSR rebukes Sadiq Khan for his figures that suggest only 10% of vehicles currently driving in the expanded zone, are not exempt from paying the charge.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/30/sadiq-khan-london-mayor-rebuked-transparency-ulez/

    Meanwhile, figures for last year, with the smaller zone around the A406 and A205 (north circular and south circular roads) show revenues of £230m (including £75m in fines), and outstanding fines of £250m.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    Definitely not a money grab, not at all.

    Oh, and the expansion zone is many times bigger than the existing zone.

    If I am reading it correctly 859,000 cars with warrants on passed to enforcement agents last year alone.......

    https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-0485-2324
    Warrants, not cars.
    Cars are only one type of vehicle, and the same vehicle can be represented multiple times.
    Journeys between 22/11/2021 to 15/2/2023:

    Total PCNs Issued PCNs Open PCNs Written Off
    Berkshire 67,558 24,489 12
    Buckinghamshire 48,926 18,042 20
    Essex 144,907 68,851 83
    Greater London 1,173,322 844,505 1,241
    Hertfordshire 47,803 19,167 20

    Some more stats. Enforcement of the existing zone is absolutely terrible, over 70% of fines issued to London registered cars are unpaid. What happens when the zone massively expands?
                      Total PCNs Issued    PCNs Open    PCNs Written Off
    Berkshire 67,558 24,489 12
    Buckinghamshire 48,926 18,042 20
    Essex 144,907 68,851 83
    Greater London 1,173,322 844,505 1,241
    Hertfordshire 47,803 19,167 20
    FYFFY
    What exactly does it mean "written off"?
    You are no longer showing the debt as an asset in your accounts because you don't think it is economically recoverable
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,903

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    Unlike you to sanction lawbreaking BigG.
    I am not sanctioning anything but it is clear the fines are not being collected
    What Khan and Labour are doing with this clunking fist policy, is bringing the fist down on some of the poorer people in our society. Rather than helping them, where they really can’t help themselves, they are bullying them instead and then prancing around like they are so wonderful and can do no wrong.
    Jesus Christ. Most poor people in London don't have a car. Poor people in London are far more likely to live in areas with high air pollution. There is a scrappage scheme to help poor drivers who are affected.
    I've seen my daughter hospitalised with asthma twice. Thank God somebody is dealing with this issue.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,318

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    Unlike you to sanction lawbreaking BigG.
    I am not sanctioning anything but it is clear the fines are not being collected
    What Khan and Labour are doing with this clunking fist policy, is bringing the fist down on some of the poorer people in our society. Rather than helping them, where they really can’t help themselves, they are bullying them instead and then prancing around like they are so wonderful and can do no wrong.
    Absolute gibberish, as usual.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,680
    kle4 said:

    Seems about right. Each with their also rans hovering at 5% or lower, and one official or unofficial 'if the lead candidate falls under a bus' option. I guess maybe Harris could be a little higher, on the basis she is the planned VP nomination and despite not being super well liked might pick up a bit more support in that scenario.

    Harris has better approval ratings than Biden or Trump.
    Harris net approval -12.1%
    Biden net approval -13.8%
    Trump net approval -16,0%







    I think Harris is under rated
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215
    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    Well civil disobedience is a form of protest I am sure that all those complaining about the laws affecting JSO and XR and supporting them will also be supporting this protest
    The best way is in the ballot box
    The ballot box does nothing because it doesn't matter whether you vote tory,lab or lib dem
    It seems to matter rather a lot to the people who do vote for one of those.

    Just because you don't see a big enough difference to please you, doesn't mean others agree.
    The country has a lot of stupid people....isn't that cannon on the left when you question about how people can vote tory...I just have a wider definition.
    I don't vote anymore because it really is a complete and utter waste of time when all three parties just want to manage the decline.

    When a party comes round with an actual plan that might work I will vote for them in the meantime I will do all I can to break things
    Everybody's wrong apart from me!
    When people keep voting for parties that will do fuck all to improve their lot then yes they are stupid. That is the argument that people like you use for people voting tory. The only difference is I say the same about labour and the lib dems.

    I get you have this impression you are somehow superior to tory voters...no you arent. Starmer will get in next time I have no doubt and under his stewardship I guarantee the lot of the bottom 70 percent of the country will worsen, would be the same if you elect the tories or the lib dems.

    They all follow the same ideology we have had for the last 40 years in this country. The ideology that landed us here. Not my fault you are so tribal as to believe your team will make stuff better by following those same policies if slightly tweaked. You go ahead and believe you are an intelligent person though if it makes you feel better
    Just so you know, I've voted Tory more than I've voted Labour. Back in the day when the Tories were a sensible, liberal party.

    I've never voted Labour. But I might.

    You're the calling (nearly) all voters stupid, not me. You're raging at your own reflection.
    Voters desperately switch from one to the other hoping they will protect there middle class life styles. Sorry they wont. If the tories get in the top 20% will do well and the lifestyles of the bottom 80% will worsen, same will happen under starmer or whoever the leader of the lib dems is.

    The ballot box is no longer a vehicle that can enforce change in the way the country needs because too many are just hoping to protect there lifestyle and hoping in the face of all the evidence that changing their vote from one centrist party to another will do it.

    Sooner the whole country crashes and burns the sooner we can start to rebuild. Yes it will hurt but the only way things might change for the better for those less well off.
    It’s interesting to get this sort of revolutionary opinion on PB as it’s quite unusual. What sort of revolution would you like, a right wing, left wing, religious, or separatist/localist sort?
    I haven't argued for any way of going, I just see it as we can't keep on this path. Over the last forty years the poor have got poorer, the rich have got richer. This can't go on and electing someone of any rosette colour to keep on with the same policies is madness.
    In most Western countries it’s more the case that growth has stalled and inequality has increased (though not everywhere) in the last 16 years since the financial crisis.

    What we do about that remains up in the air. Not sure anyone has found the magic recipe. Not even the Nordic countries.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    On topic.
    (Posted by Kari Lake’s campaign manager on twitter btw)

    ydoethur said:

    On topic.
    (Posted by Kari Lake’s campaign manager on twitter btw)

    Blimey, look at that massive cock.

    Although I think the CGI enhanced crotch is going a bit far.
    This Is Spinal Tap - Smalls' Armadillo
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAargSCXQaQ
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,558
    rcs1000 said:

    On topic.
    (Posted by Kari Lake’s campaign manager on twitter btw)

    If anyone thinks that is what DJT looks like under his clothes, then I have a bridge to sell.
    It’s quite amusing and the gayest Tom of Finland pastiche possible. Must be causing some confusion amongst certain members of the religious right, strange feelings they don’t understand.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    ydoethur said:

    I’m posting again on the bizarre idea - signed off by the government - to close railway ticket offices.

    Apparently all ticket offices at Euston, for example, are to go.

    This is the “enshittification” of the railways.

    I wonder they don't just close Euston given the disaster they've wrought over HS2.
    Bring back the Doric Arch!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,976

    On topic.
    (Posted by Kari Lake’s campaign manager on twitter btw)

    Jesus.

    If you ever post something like that again please have the courtesy to post a trigger warning.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,005
    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    Well civil disobedience is a form of protest I am sure that all those complaining about the laws affecting JSO and XR and supporting them will also be supporting this protest
    The best way is in the ballot box
    The ballot box does nothing because it doesn't matter whether you vote tory,lab or lib dem
    It seems to matter rather a lot to the people who do vote for one of those.

    Just because you don't see a big enough difference to please you, doesn't mean others agree.
    The country has a lot of stupid people....isn't that cannon on the left when you question about how people can vote tory...I just have a wider definition.
    I don't vote anymore because it really is a complete and utter waste of time when all three parties just want to manage the decline.

    When a party comes round with an actual plan that might work I will vote for them in the meantime I will do all I can to break things
    Everybody's wrong apart from me!
    When people keep voting for parties that will do fuck all to improve their lot then yes they are stupid. That is the argument that people like you use for people voting tory. The only difference is I say the same about labour and the lib dems.

    I get you have this impression you are somehow superior to tory voters...no you arent. Starmer will get in next time I have no doubt and under his stewardship I guarantee the lot of the bottom 70 percent of the country will worsen, would be the same if you elect the tories or the lib dems.

    They all follow the same ideology we have had for the last 40 years in this country. The ideology that landed us here. Not my fault you are so tribal as to believe your team will make stuff better by following those same policies if slightly tweaked. You go ahead and believe you are an intelligent person though if it makes you feel better
    Just so you know, I've voted Tory more than I've voted Labour. Back in the day when the Tories were a sensible, liberal party.

    I've never voted Labour. But I might.

    You're the calling (nearly) all voters stupid, not me. You're raging at your own reflection.
    Voters desperately switch from one to the other hoping they will protect there middle class life styles. Sorry they wont. If the tories get in the top 20% will do well and the lifestyles of the bottom 80% will worsen, same will happen under starmer or whoever the leader of the lib dems is.

    The ballot box is no longer a vehicle that can enforce change in the way the country needs because too many are just hoping to protect there lifestyle and hoping in the face of all the evidence that changing their vote from one centrist party to another will do it.

    Sooner the whole country crashes and burns the sooner we can start to rebuild. Yes it will hurt but the only way things might change for the better for those less well off.
    It’s interesting to get this sort of revolutionary opinion on PB as it’s quite unusual. What sort of revolution would you like, a right wing, left wing, religious, or separatist/localist sort?
    I haven't argued for any way of going, I just see it as we can't keep on this path. Over the last forty years the poor have got poorer, the rich have got richer. This can't go on and electing someone of any rosette colour to keep on with the same policies is madness.
    In most Western countries it’s more the case that growth has stalled and inequality has increased (though not everywhere) in the last 16 years since the financial crisis.

    What we do about that remains up in the air. Not sure anyone has found the magic recipe. Not even the Nordic countries.
    I didn't claim anyone had found the magic recipe, what I was claiming is we know the current recipe does not work....yet next general election we will have the lib dems , labour and tories standing on the current recipe
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,167

    On topic.
    (Posted by Kari Lake’s campaign manager on twitter btw)

    ydoethur said:

    On topic.
    (Posted by Kari Lake’s campaign manager on twitter btw)

    Blimey, look at that massive cock.

    Although I think the CGI enhanced crotch is going a bit far.
    This Is Spinal Tap - Smalls' Armadillo
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAargSCXQaQ
    They’ve obviously seen RFK Jr’s pectoral antics & rising numbers and feel they have to retaliate.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215
    edited July 2023
    Miklosvar said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    Well civil disobedience is a form of protest I am sure that all those complaining about the laws affecting JSO and XR and supporting them will also be supporting this protest
    The best way is in the ballot box
    The ballot box does nothing because it doesn't matter whether you vote tory,lab or lib dem
    It seems to matter rather a lot to the people who do vote for one of those.

    Just because you don't see a big enough difference to please you, doesn't mean others agree.
    The country has a lot of stupid people....isn't that cannon on the left when you question about how people can vote tory...I just have a wider definition.
    I don't vote anymore because it really is a complete and utter waste of time when all three parties just want to manage the decline.

    When a party comes round with an actual plan that might work I will vote for them in the meantime I will do all I can to break things
    Everybody's wrong apart from me!
    When people keep voting for parties that will do fuck all to improve their lot then yes they are stupid. That is the argument that people like you use for people voting tory. The only difference is I say the same about labour and the lib dems.

    I get you have this impression you are somehow superior to tory voters...no you arent. Starmer will get in next time I have no doubt and under his stewardship I guarantee the lot of the bottom 70 percent of the country will worsen, would be the same if you elect the tories or the lib dems.

    They all follow the same ideology we have had for the last 40 years in this country. The ideology that landed us here. Not my fault you are so tribal as to believe your team will make stuff better by following those same policies if slightly tweaked. You go ahead and believe you are an intelligent person though if it makes you feel better
    Just so you know, I've voted Tory more than I've voted Labour. Back in the day when the Tories were a sensible, liberal party.

    I've never voted Labour. But I might.

    You're the calling (nearly) all voters stupid, not me. You're raging at your own reflection.
    Voters desperately switch from one to the other hoping they will protect there middle class life styles. Sorry they wont. If the tories get in the top 20% will do well and the lifestyles of the bottom 80% will worsen, same will happen under starmer or whoever the leader of the lib dems is.

    The ballot box is no longer a vehicle that can enforce change in the way the country needs because too many are just hoping to protect there lifestyle and hoping in the face of all the evidence that changing their vote from one centrist party to another will do it.

    Sooner the whole country crashes and burns the sooner we can start to rebuild. Yes it will hurt but the only way things might change for the better for those less well off.
    It’s interesting to get this sort of revolutionary opinion on PB as it’s quite unusual. What sort of revolution would you like, a right wing, left wing, religious, or separatist/localist sort?
    You'll be fine, no ruling caste has ever not required unlimited sparkling wine.

    Might have a bearing on the dosage, mind. Left = sweeter from what I know of uncle Joe.
    Zero dosage = upper-middle intellectual types and urban hipsters
    Classic brut = centre right and centre left, mainstream opinion
    Slightly higher dosage = kippers and Farage
    Demi-sec and onwards into sweet = Stalinists and a few aristos
    Alcohol-free = Islamist revolutionaries
    Pet-nat = Corbynistas

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,167

    On topic.
    (Posted by Kari Lake’s campaign manager on twitter btw)

    Jesus.

    If you ever post something like that again please have the courtesy to post a trigger warning.
    Sorry, I now realise Leon might have a stroke on coming across that.
    So to speak.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,680
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Hate to say it, but I think RFK is underpriced. He’s not going away and intends to run to the Convention.

    You're mad
    I’m not saying he has any chance, I’m saying his price is likely to come in at some point between now and next summer.
    He's horrible as a trading bet. He is the same price for the Dem nom
    Which implies that if he wins the nomination, he has zero chance of winning the presidency (in the opinion of punters).
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468

    I’m posting again on the bizarre idea - signed off by the government - to close railway ticket offices.

    Apparently all ticket offices at Euston, for example, are to go.

    This is the “enshittification” of the railways.

    We've spent the best part of a decade voting to wind the country down on the basis that it's fine as long as it lasts me out. Squeeze the costs and don't worry if the consequence of that is an even bigger squeeze on our ability to pay those costs. It's been the British disease for as long as I remember, but now it's getting acute.

    (The next one to watch is the ongoing enshittification of the BBC due to the licence fee freeze. Yes, the LF is illogical and will probably stop working at some point, but the cuts that have already happened to local news and are about to happen to local radio are going to make an OK service unambiguosly shittier.)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,302
    edited July 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT:

    OSR rebukes Sadiq Khan for his figures that suggest only 10% of vehicles currently driving in the expanded zone, are not exempt from paying the charge.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/30/sadiq-khan-london-mayor-rebuked-transparency-ulez/

    Meanwhile, figures for last year, with the smaller zone around the A406 and A205 (north circular and south circular roads) show revenues of £230m (including £75m in fines), and outstanding fines of £250m.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    Definitely not a money grab, not at all.

    Oh, and the expansion zone is many times bigger than the existing zone.

    If I am reading it correctly 859,000 cars with warrants on passed to enforcement agents last year alone.......

    https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-0485-2324
    Warrants, not cars.
    Cars are only one type of vehicle, and the same vehicle can be represented multiple times.
    Journeys between 22/11/2021 to 15/2/2023:

    Total PCNs Issued PCNs Open PCNs Written Off
    Berkshire 67,558 24,489 12
    Buckinghamshire 48,926 18,042 20
    Essex 144,907 68,851 83
    Greater London 1,173,322 844,505 1,241
    Hertfordshire 47,803 19,167 20

    Some more stats. Enforcement of the existing zone is absolutely terrible, over 70% of fines issued to London registered cars are unpaid. What happens when the zone massively expands?
                      Total PCNs Issued    PCNs Open    PCNs Written Off
    Berkshire 67,558 24,489 12
    Buckinghamshire 48,926 18,042 20
    Essex 144,907 68,851 83
    Greater London 1,173,322 844,505 1,241
    Hertfordshire 47,803 19,167 20
    FYFFY
    Everyone should know about the <pre> tags. They allow you to paste preformatted (fixed width characters). Just make sure you only indent using spaces (no tabs!), check is looks out in Notepad/Sublime Text and you're golden.

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  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    Barnesian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Hate to say it, but I think RFK is underpriced. He’s not going away and intends to run to the Convention.

    You're mad
    I’m not saying he has any chance, I’m saying his price is likely to come in at some point between now and next summer.
    He's horrible as a trading bet. He is the same price for the Dem nom
    Which implies that if he wins the nomination, he has zero chance of winning the presidency (in the opinion of punters).
    100% chance
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,005

    I’m posting again on the bizarre idea - signed off by the government - to close railway ticket offices.

    Apparently all ticket offices at Euston, for example, are to go.

    This is the “enshittification” of the railways.

    We've spent the best part of a decade voting to wind the country down on the basis that it's fine as long as it lasts me out. Squeeze the costs and don't worry if the consequence of that is an even bigger squeeze on our ability to pay those costs. It's been the British disease for as long as I remember, but now it's getting acute.

    (The next one to watch is the ongoing enshittification of the BBC due to the licence fee freeze. Yes, the LF is illogical and will probably stop working at some point, but the cuts that have already happened to local news and are about to happen to local radio are going to make an OK service unambiguosly shittier.)
    The bbc turned to shit in the mid nineties
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,976

    On topic.
    (Posted by Kari Lake’s campaign manager on twitter btw)

    Jesus.

    If you ever post something like that again please have the courtesy to post a trigger warning.
    Sorry, I now realise Leon might have a stroke on coming across that.
    So to speak.
    The only way I will be able to talk about that picture is in a therapist's office with dolls.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,680
    edited July 2023
    Pulpstar said:

    Barnesian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Hate to say it, but I think RFK is underpriced. He’s not going away and intends to run to the Convention.

    You're mad
    I’m not saying he has any chance, I’m saying his price is likely to come in at some point between now and next summer.
    He's horrible as a trading bet. He is the same price for the Dem nom
    Which implies that if he wins the nomination, he has zero chance of winning the presidency (in the opinion of punters).
    100% chance
    You're right! Which is crazy.

    EDIT: Not that you're right but 100% chance. What's going on?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,005

    On topic.
    (Posted by Kari Lake’s campaign manager on twitter btw)

    Jesus.

    If you ever post something like that again please have the courtesy to post a trigger warning.
    Sorry, I now realise Leon might have a stroke on coming across that.
    So to speak.
    The only way I will be able to talk about that picture is in a therapist's office with dolls.
    Show me on the trump doll where you want trump to touch you?
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Cheating convict cheats way to maillot jaune, is any sport safe?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    . . . from the bleeding Woke heart of modern American dystopia . . .

    Seattle Times ($) - Seattle welcomes 501 new American citizens at July Fourth ceremony

    When Marha Babatid learned she would become an American citizen on July Fourth, she got excited.

    “Oh my, that’s a big day,” the 36-year-old Filipina immigrant thought — a day that seemed to promise an especially big welcome to America.

    That was exactly the point at the annual swearing-in ceremony on Independence Day at Seattle Center, one of many taking place across the country. A bevy of performers and prominent speakers marked the celebration of 501 new citizens from 80 countries, all of them sitting outside beneath the sunshine, surrounded by American flags and red, white and blue balloons.

    “I want to thank you for choosing Washington state,” Gov. Jay Inslee told them. The state’s “secret of success,” he said, is people who have arrived here from around the world . . .

    Sakaraia Waimila, 30, said he planned on pursuing his dream to become a pilot, something he said would have been impossible in his homeland of Fiji. . . .

    Lien Nguyen, 29, got a college degree in business in Vietnam . . . Beginning this fall, she will attend the University of Washington to study engineering.

    Several speakers presented themselves as proof of what is possible in the U.S.

    Chief Judge David Estudillo of the U.S. District Court of Western Washington said his parents came from Mexico. “We are here and we are not leaving,” he said his parents used to say.

    “I am a product of my parents’ sacrifices,” Estudillo continued. “And I’m also confirmation of their beliefs in the validity of the promises of the United States.”

    U.S. Rep. Pramila Jayapal, D-Seattle, noted she came to the U.S. at 16 and attended her own swearing-in ceremony 23 years ago. . . .

    Seattle Mayor Bruce Harrell said appreciating their new country doesn’t mean they shouldn’t criticize it. . . .

    “When they say there’s opportunity here, they’re not lying,” said Chenita Smith, a 30-year-old from South Africa. She first came to the U.S. in 2016 as a caregiver for two children and lived with their family on Mercer Island . . . [they were] in the Seattle Center audience Tuesday cheering her on.

    Onur Gulbay even started a pop-up food business embracing a staple of American cuisine: Texas-style barbecue. . . he was set to take his pop-up to Fremont Brewing for the afternoon.

    Emphasizing the diversity of the crowd, Leanne Leigh, acting Northwest director of the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, read all 80 home countries of those about to become citizens . . .

    All jointly swore to renounce foreign allegiances and defend the country against all enemies.

    “From this moment on,” Estudillo declared, “you are American citizens.”

    SSI - over the years, I've attended this annual ceremony several times; based on report, this year's was pretty much like every one I've been privileged to witness.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,302
    Interesting thread on US timidity over Ukraine.

    A significant fear of friends of Ukraine: that the US isn't properly behind a vision of clear victory.
    This meshes with the repeated pattern of delays in agreeing more capable systems. At this time, the U.S. still hasn't supplied anything with a range of over 90 km.


    https://twitter.com/ehunterchristie/status/1676324983033790470
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    edited July 2023
    Don't worry if this country turns to shit. Rishi has his Indian billionaire daddy-in-law to fall back on.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153
    Farooq said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    How do you infer who is refusing to pay? Could be any kinds of vehicles, no? Vans, lorries, snowploughs, horse boxes...
    Snowploughs and horse boxes are quite rare in London.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Seems about right. Each with their also rans hovering at 5% or lower, and one official or unofficial 'if the lead candidate falls under a bus' option. I guess maybe Harris could be a little higher, on the basis she is the planned VP nomination and despite not being super well liked might pick up a bit more support in that scenario.

    Harris has better approval ratings than Biden or Trump.
    Harris net approval -12.1%
    Biden net approval -13.8%
    Trump net approval -16,0%







    I think Harris is under rated
    Harris' favourable rating is below Biden and Trump there.

    She would hand the rustbelt on a plate back to Trump.

    Biden leads Trump 42% to 41% with Redfield but Trump beats Harris 42% to 41%
    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/joe-biden-administration-approval-ratings-and-hypothetical-voting-intention-25-june-2023/
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    Barnesian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Barnesian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Hate to say it, but I think RFK is underpriced. He’s not going away and intends to run to the Convention.

    You're mad
    I’m not saying he has any chance, I’m saying his price is likely to come in at some point between now and next summer.
    He's horrible as a trading bet. He is the same price for the Dem nom
    Which implies that if he wins the nomination, he has zero chance of winning the presidency (in the opinion of punters).
    100% chance
    You're right! Which is crazy.

    EDIT: Not that you're right but 100% chance. What's going on?

    That or punters think an independent run is viable 😂
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,646

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    Unlike you to sanction lawbreaking BigG.
    I am not sanctioning anything but it is clear the fines are not being collected
    What Khan and Labour are doing with this clunking fist policy, is bringing the fist down on some of the poorer people in our society. Rather than helping them, where they really can’t help themselves, they are bullying them instead and then prancing around like they are so wonderful and can do no wrong.
    Absolute gibberish, as usual.
    Is it Labours anti car policies that’s ramping up everyone’s car insurance? I don’t actually pay it, my dad pays it for me, but how do you justify these crazy car insurance prices? You can’t can you? It is the poorer people in society who suffer most from attacks on car ownership and driving cars off the road. 😠
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    Yes, it's a battery story, but Toyota is one company I'd 'trust' on such stories.

    "Toyota says solid-state battery breakthrough can halve cost and size
    Japanese carmaker plans to commercialise technology in electric vehicles by 2027"

    https://www.ft.com/content/87cb8e92-8e82-4755-8fc3-2943f8f63e1d
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,992
    Evening all :)

    On ULEZ, which seems to be the "miracle policy" for the Conservatives, re-establishing their popularity (oh, it was a single by-election in a marginal Ward in Cambridge?) and giving them a distinctive messgae for the country (you can breathe whatever crap you like but your car is safe), my recollection was in Inner London, 96% of vehicles were compliant.

    It's interesting to note fines arten't being collected (seemingly) but given TFL's failure to so anything about endemic fare evasion, I really shouldn't be surprised. The money of course has long stopped being the issue, the issue is the notion Khan and those who support him are "anti-car" and are fleecing car owners in outer London.

    The harmful effects of diesel particulate emissions are well known - perhaps calling time on older diesels isn't the worst idea. With evidence of a warming world mounting by the day, it;s tempting to take the view "what can Britain do in isolation, what about China, India and other countries burning fossil fuels?". There's been an interesting piece today about the impact of declining levels of sulphur dioxide in maritume fuel.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153
    edited July 2023

    Yes, it's a battery story, but Toyota is one company I'd 'trust' on such stories.

    "Toyota says solid-state battery breakthrough can halve cost and size
    Japanese carmaker plans to commercialise technology in electric vehicles by 2027"

    https://www.ft.com/content/87cb8e92-8e82-4755-8fc3-2943f8f63e1d

    If they are claiming in consumer vehicles in 2027, they’d need to have a full sized test item in a test car now…

    Edit : there is no existing factory for solid state batteries on such a scale. So they will need one. To get one up and running in 2027, they would need to be breaking ground… about now. Are they?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,136
    edited July 2023
    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    Well civil disobedience is a form of protest I am sure that all those complaining about the laws affecting JSO and XR and supporting them will also be supporting this protest
    The best way is in the ballot box
    The ballot box does nothing because it doesn't matter whether you vote tory,lab or lib dem
    It seems to matter rather a lot to the people who do vote for one of those.

    Just because you don't see a big enough difference to please you, doesn't mean others agree.
    The country has a lot of stupid people....isn't that cannon on the left when you question about how people can vote tory...I just have a wider definition.
    I don't vote anymore because it really is a complete and utter waste of time when all three parties just want to manage the decline.

    When a party comes round with an actual plan that might work I will vote for them in the meantime I will do all I can to break things
    Everybody's wrong apart from me!
    When people keep voting for parties that will do fuck all to improve their lot then yes they are stupid. That is the argument that people like you use for people voting tory. The only difference is I say the same about labour and the lib dems.

    I get you have this impression you are somehow superior to tory voters...no you arent. Starmer will get in next time I have no doubt and under his stewardship I guarantee the lot of the bottom 70 percent of the country will worsen, would be the same if you elect the tories or the lib dems.

    They all follow the same ideology we have had for the last 40 years in this country. The ideology that landed us here. Not my fault you are so tribal as to believe your team will make stuff better by following those same policies if slightly tweaked. You go ahead and believe you are an intelligent person though if it makes you feel better
    Just so you know, I've voted Tory more than I've voted Labour. Back in the day when the Tories were a sensible, liberal party.

    I've never voted Labour. But I might.

    You're the calling (nearly) all voters stupid, not me. You're raging at your own reflection.
    Voters desperately switch from one to the other hoping they will protect there middle class life styles. Sorry they wont. If the tories get in the top 20% will do well and the lifestyles of the bottom 80% will worsen, same will happen under starmer or whoever the leader of the lib dems is.

    The ballot box is no longer a vehicle that can enforce change in the way the country needs because too many are just hoping to protect there lifestyle and hoping in the face of all the evidence that changing their vote from one centrist party to another will do it.

    Sooner the whole country crashes and burns the sooner we can start to rebuild. Yes it will hurt but the only way things might change for the better for those less well off.
    It’s interesting to get this sort of revolutionary opinion on PB as it’s quite unusual. What sort of revolution would you like, a right wing, left wing, religious, or separatist/localist sort?
    I haven't argued for any way of going, I just see it as we can't keep on this path. Over the last forty years the poor have got poorer, the rich have got richer. This can't go on and electing someone of any rosette colour to keep on with the same policies is madness.
    In most Western countries it’s more the case that growth has stalled and inequality has increased (though not everywhere) in the last 16 years since the financial crisis.

    That's because the financial crisis discredited orthodox, free market economics amongst voters.

    Completely illogically, since it occurred in the financial services sector, which is about the most regulated, government-controlled part of the private sector there is, apart maybe from housebuilding, which is of course even more screwed up.

    It really isn't rocket science - markets generally allocate resources better than governments do, because people who operate in them are closer to the action and afraid of going bankrupt, whereas governments are generally but not always remote, incompetent and wasteful. And if you penalise the successful and enterprising and reward the lazy and failing, you'll have less success and enterprise and more laziness and failure.

    But anyway, we've had creeping, tax-and-spend managerial socialism virtually everywhere in the free world, and, completely unsurprisingly, we're left with no growth, and even, in some years, absolute decline.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    edited July 2023
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    On ULEZ, which seems to be the "miracle policy" for the Conservatives, re-establishing their popularity (oh, it was a single by-election in a marginal Ward in Cambridge?) and giving them a distinctive messgae for the country (you can breathe whatever crap you like but your car is safe), my recollection was in Inner London, 96% of vehicles were compliant.

    It's interesting to note fines arten't being collected (seemingly) but given TFL's failure to so anything about endemic fare evasion, I really shouldn't be surprised. The money of course has long stopped being the issue, the issue is the notion Khan and those who support him are "anti-car" and are fleecing car owners in outer London.

    The harmful effects of diesel particulate emissions are well known - perhaps calling time on older diesels isn't the worst idea. With evidence of a warming world mounting by the day, it;s tempting to take the view "what can Britain do in isolation, what about China, India and other countries burning fossil fuels?". There's been an interesting piece today about the impact of declining levels of sulphur dioxide in maritume fuel.

    If diesels are so evil, why don't Khan and co. just ban them instead of making money out of them?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,730
    edited July 2023

    Yes, it's a battery story, but Toyota is one company I'd 'trust' on such stories.

    "Toyota says solid-state battery breakthrough can halve cost and size
    Japanese carmaker plans to commercialise technology in electric vehicles by 2027"

    https://www.ft.com/content/87cb8e92-8e82-4755-8fc3-2943f8f63e1d

    If they are claiming in consumer vehicles in 2027, they’d need to have a full sized test item in a test car now…

    Edit : there is no existing factory for solid state batteries on such a scale. So they will need one. To get one up and running in 2027, they would need to be breaking ground… about now. Are they?
    I hope they can re-use existing factories - or we are doing to suffer the problem where everyone is standing around waiting for the next leap in technology and not wanting to spend billions on something that will become obsolete.

    If we aren't suffering that already.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,992

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    Unlike you to sanction lawbreaking BigG.
    I am not sanctioning anything but it is clear the fines are not being collected
    What Khan and Labour are doing with this clunking fist policy, is bringing the fist down on some of the poorer people in our society. Rather than helping them, where they really can’t help themselves, they are bullying them instead and then prancing around like they are so wonderful and can do no wrong.
    Absolute gibberish, as usual.
    Is it Labours anti car policies that’s ramping up everyone’s car insurance? I don’t actually pay it, my dad pays it for me, but how do you justify these crazy car insurance prices? You can’t can you? It is the poorer people in society who suffer most from attacks on car ownership and driving cars off the road. 😠
    How do you know or can you prove car insurance prices are being "ramped up" (whatever that means) by anything a party in opposition is doing? It seems absurd - I suspect insurances are going up because of inflation and claims.

    Car insurance is also decided by where you live - if you want to change the rules tell the insurance companies not to penalise certain areas by having higher insurance costs just because there are more claims.

    As for the "poorest people in society", they are the ones who can't afford to have or run a car not those who are moaning about the insurance.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504

    Yes, it's a battery story, but Toyota is one company I'd 'trust' on such stories.

    "Toyota says solid-state battery breakthrough can halve cost and size
    Japanese carmaker plans to commercialise technology in electric vehicles by 2027"

    https://www.ft.com/content/87cb8e92-8e82-4755-8fc3-2943f8f63e1d

    If they are claiming in consumer vehicles in 2027, they’d need to have a full sized test item in a test car now…

    Edit : there is no existing factory for solid state batteries on such a scale. So they will need one. To get one up and running in 2027, they would need to be breaking ground… about now. Are they?
    They might have a full-scale test items in cars by now. How can you tell what battery chemistries they are using?

    Factories can be altered... at an expense.

    'New miracle battery chemistry' stories occur regularly. I'm very bearish on them. I have little doubt that *one* approach will work, but it's impossible from the outside to guess which. But I take Toyota saying this much more seriously than, say, the uni of West Scotland.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,029
    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    Well civil disobedience is a form of protest I am sure that all those complaining about the laws affecting JSO and XR and supporting them will also be supporting this protest
    The best way is in the ballot box
    The ballot box does nothing because it doesn't matter whether you vote tory,lab or lib dem
    It seems to matter rather a lot to the people who do vote for one of those.

    Just because you don't see a big enough difference to please you, doesn't mean others agree.
    The country has a lot of stupid people....isn't that cannon on the left when you question about how people can vote tory...I just have a wider definition.
    I don't vote anymore because it really is a complete and utter waste of time when all three parties just want to manage the decline.

    When a party comes round with an actual plan that might work I will vote for them in the meantime I will do all I can to break things
    Everybody's wrong apart from me!
    When people keep voting for parties that will do fuck all to improve their lot then yes they are stupid. That is the argument that people like you use for people voting tory. The only difference is I say the same about labour and the lib dems.

    I get you have this impression you are somehow superior to tory voters...no you arent. Starmer will get in next time I have no doubt and under his stewardship I guarantee the lot of the bottom 70 percent of the country will worsen, would be the same if you elect the tories or the lib dems.

    They all follow the same ideology we have had for the last 40 years in this country. The ideology that landed us here. Not my fault you are so tribal as to believe your team will make stuff better by following those same policies if slightly tweaked. You go ahead and believe you are an intelligent person though if it makes you feel better
    Just so you know, I've voted Tory more than I've voted Labour. Back in the day when the Tories were a sensible, liberal party.

    I've never voted Labour. But I might.

    You're the calling (nearly) all voters stupid, not me. You're raging at your own reflection.
    Voters desperately switch from one to the other hoping they will protect there middle class life styles. Sorry they wont. If the tories get in the top 20% will do well and the lifestyles of the bottom 80% will worsen, same will happen under starmer or whoever the leader of the lib dems is.

    The ballot box is no longer a vehicle that can enforce change in the way the country needs because too many are just hoping to protect there lifestyle and hoping in the face of all the evidence that changing their vote from one centrist party to another will do it.

    Sooner the whole country crashes and burns the sooner we can start to rebuild. Yes it will hurt but the only way things might change for the better for those less well off.
    It’s interesting to get this sort of revolutionary opinion on PB as it’s quite unusual. What sort of revolution would you like, a right wing, left wing, religious, or separatist/localist sort?
    As long as it results in imperial measurements and more grammar schools - it'll go down a storm.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,646

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    Unlike you to sanction lawbreaking BigG.
    I am not sanctioning anything but it is clear the fines are not being collected
    What Khan and Labour are doing with this clunking fist policy, is bringing the fist down on some of the poorer people in our society. Rather than helping them, where they really can’t help themselves, they are bullying them instead and then prancing around like they are so wonderful and can do no wrong.
    Jesus Christ. Most poor people in London don't have a car. Poor people in London are far more likely to live in areas with high air pollution. There is a scrappage scheme to help poor drivers who are affected.
    I've seen my daughter hospitalised with asthma twice. Thank God somebody is dealing with this issue.
    My argument being, maybe a policy not just popular in central London, but does an awful lot of good there, doesn’t do such great amounts of good everywhere, like Hemingford Grey, so is hated where it doesn’t. So expansion and extension of a policy that is “great and and popular here so must be marvellous for everyone” is actually wrong political thinking bordering on socialism. Can you not agree with that point?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,680
    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Seems about right. Each with their also rans hovering at 5% or lower, and one official or unofficial 'if the lead candidate falls under a bus' option. I guess maybe Harris could be a little higher, on the basis she is the planned VP nomination and despite not being super well liked might pick up a bit more support in that scenario.

    Harris has better approval ratings than Biden or Trump.
    Harris net approval -12.1%
    Biden net approval -13.8%
    Trump net approval -16,0%







    I think Harris is under rated
    Harris' favourable rating is below Biden and Trump there.

    She would hand the rustbelt on a plate back to Trump.

    Biden leads Trump 42% to 41% with Redfield but Trump beats Harris 42% to 41%
    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/joe-biden-administration-approval-ratings-and-hypothetical-voting-intention-25-june-2023/
    Her favourable rating is only just below Trump (39.2% versus 39.8%) but 9.5% don't have an opinion on Harris compared with 4.5% who don't have an opinion on Trump.

    It's too close to call. Lots of people write Harris off. She was pinned to Washington as the casting vote on the Senate but isn't any longer. She would handle Trump much better than Clinton did.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153

    Yes, it's a battery story, but Toyota is one company I'd 'trust' on such stories.

    "Toyota says solid-state battery breakthrough can halve cost and size
    Japanese carmaker plans to commercialise technology in electric vehicles by 2027"

    https://www.ft.com/content/87cb8e92-8e82-4755-8fc3-2943f8f63e1d

    If they are claiming in consumer vehicles in 2027, they’d need to have a full sized test item in a test car now…

    Edit : there is no existing factory for solid state batteries on such a scale. So they will need one. To get one up and running in 2027, they would need to be breaking ground… about now. Are they?
    They might have a full-scale test items in cars by now. How can you tell what battery chemistries they are using?

    Factories can be altered... at an expense.

    'New miracle battery chemistry' stories occur regularly. I'm very bearish on them. I have little doubt that *one* approach will work, but it's impossible from the outside to guess which. But I take Toyota saying this much more seriously than, say, the uni of West Scotland.
    If they have a pack up and running, then it is surprising they didn’t show case the vehicle running laps. That would have really done wonders for their share price.

    Lithium to solid state battery production would be a tear out. If you are lucky, you’d keep the building…
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153

    Yes, it's a battery story, but Toyota is one company I'd 'trust' on such stories.

    "Toyota says solid-state battery breakthrough can halve cost and size
    Japanese carmaker plans to commercialise technology in electric vehicles by 2027"

    https://www.ft.com/content/87cb8e92-8e82-4755-8fc3-2943f8f63e1d

    If they are claiming in consumer vehicles in 2027, they’d need to have a full sized test item in a test car now…

    Edit : there is no existing factory for solid state batteries on such a scale. So they will need one. To get one up and running in 2027, they would need to be breaking ground… about now. Are they?
    I hope they can re-use existing factories - or we are doing to suffer the problem where everyone is standing around waiting for the next leap in technology and not wanting to spend billions on something that will become obsolete.

    If we aren't suffering that already.
    In the latter half of the 19th cent, it was quite common for a factory to go from state of the art to scrap, in an afternoon.

    Think of the makers of compound armour plate, the day after the first all steel plates won their first competition.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,992

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    Unlike you to sanction lawbreaking BigG.
    I am not sanctioning anything but it is clear the fines are not being collected
    What Khan and Labour are doing with this clunking fist policy, is bringing the fist down on some of the poorer people in our society. Rather than helping them, where they really can’t help themselves, they are bullying them instead and then prancing around like they are so wonderful and can do no wrong.
    Jesus Christ. Most poor people in London don't have a car. Poor people in London are far more likely to live in areas with high air pollution. There is a scrappage scheme to help poor drivers who are affected.
    I've seen my daughter hospitalised with asthma twice. Thank God somebody is dealing with this issue.
    My argument being, maybe a policy not just popular in central London, but does an awful lot of good there, doesn’t do such great amounts of good everywhere, like Hemingford Grey, so is hated where it doesn’t. So expansion and extension of a policy that is “great and and popular here so must be marvellous for everyone” is actually wrong political thinking bordering on socialism. Can you not agree with that point?
    I seem to recall the same argument being used about the Poll Tax. It was popular and worked well in Wandsworth so it would be popular and work well everywhere?

    That was basically Thatcherite socialism by your definition.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153
    stodge said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    Unlike you to sanction lawbreaking BigG.
    I am not sanctioning anything but it is clear the fines are not being collected
    What Khan and Labour are doing with this clunking fist policy, is bringing the fist down on some of the poorer people in our society. Rather than helping them, where they really can’t help themselves, they are bullying them instead and then prancing around like they are so wonderful and can do no wrong.
    Jesus Christ. Most poor people in London don't have a car. Poor people in London are far more likely to live in areas with high air pollution. There is a scrappage scheme to help poor drivers who are affected.
    I've seen my daughter hospitalised with asthma twice. Thank God somebody is dealing with this issue.
    My argument being, maybe a policy not just popular in central London, but does an awful lot of good there, doesn’t do such great amounts of good everywhere, like Hemingford Grey, so is hated where it doesn’t. So expansion and extension of a policy that is “great and and popular here so must be marvellous for everyone” is actually wrong political thinking bordering on socialism. Can you not agree with that point?
    I seem to recall the same argument being used about the Poll Tax. It was popular and worked well in Wandsworth so it would be popular and work well everywhere?

    That was basically Thatcherite socialism by your definition.
    The police used to do more stop and test. Among other things, this found that the majority of pollution comes from a small group of vehicles, generally very poorly maintained. Commercial trucks being flogged to death and really old bangers were the stars, IIRC.

    They also found that, in then then ULEZ zone, there was a trade in putting cloned number plates on non-compliant vehicles. At first they thought they’d found stolen vehicles….
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,302

    Yes, it's a battery story, but Toyota is one company I'd 'trust' on such stories.

    "Toyota says solid-state battery breakthrough can halve cost and size
    Japanese carmaker plans to commercialise technology in electric vehicles by 2027"

    https://www.ft.com/content/87cb8e92-8e82-4755-8fc3-2943f8f63e1d

    If they are claiming in consumer vehicles in 2027, they’d need to have a full sized test item in a test car now…

    Edit : there is no existing factory for solid state batteries on such a scale. So they will need one. To get one up and running in 2027, they would need to be breaking ground… about now. Are they?
    I hope they can re-use existing factories - or we are doing to suffer the problem where everyone is standing around waiting for the next leap in technology and not wanting to spend billions on something that will become obsolete.

    If we aren't suffering that already.
    This is another paradoxical problem of low interest rates.
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517

    On topic.
    (Posted by Kari Lake’s campaign manager on twitter btw)

    Jesus.

    If you ever post something like that again please have the courtesy to post a trigger warning.
    Sorry, I now realise Leon might have a stroke on coming across that.
    So to speak.
    That was originally the Spectator's contribution at the evo-psych brainstorming session to think up a son of Pepe the Frog for 2024.

    Given those Trump trading cards, something like this could even happen.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    Unlike you to sanction lawbreaking BigG.
    I am not sanctioning anything but it is clear the fines are not being collected
    What Khan and Labour are doing with this clunking fist policy, is bringing the fist down on some of the poorer people in our society. Rather than helping them, where they really can’t help themselves, they are bullying them instead and then prancing around like they are so wonderful and can do no wrong.
    Absolute gibberish, as usual.
    Is it Labours anti car policies that’s ramping up everyone’s car insurance? I don’t actually pay it, my dad pays it for me, but how do you justify these crazy car insurance prices? You can’t can you? It is the poorer people in society who suffer most from attacks on car ownership and driving cars off the road. 😠
    Eh ?

    What are you on about. Ulez won't affect car insurance
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,646
    stodge said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    Unlike you to sanction lawbreaking BigG.
    I am not sanctioning anything but it is clear the fines are not being collected
    What Khan and Labour are doing with this clunking fist policy, is bringing the fist down on some of the poorer people in our society. Rather than helping them, where they really can’t help themselves, they are bullying them instead and then prancing around like they are so wonderful and can do no wrong.
    Jesus Christ. Most poor people in London don't have a car. Poor people in London are far more likely to live in areas with high air pollution. There is a scrappage scheme to help poor drivers who are affected.
    I've seen my daughter hospitalised with asthma twice. Thank God somebody is dealing with this issue.
    My argument being, maybe a policy not just popular in central London, but does an awful lot of good there, doesn’t do such great amounts of good everywhere, like Hemingford Grey, so is hated where it doesn’t. So expansion and extension of a policy that is “great and and popular here so must be marvellous for everyone” is actually wrong political thinking bordering on socialism. Can you not agree with that point?
    I seem to recall the same argument being used about the Poll Tax. It was popular and worked well in Wandsworth so it would be popular and work well everywhere?

    That was basically Thatcherite socialism by your definition.
    now you are deliberately taking this down a rabbit hole, a sure sign of losing the argument. I’m not a poll tax supporter. it was obviously before my time, but I see nothing wrong with progressive taxation like current council tax to part fund local democracy, and no reason to switch to poll tax to replace it.

    But surely it must be true, more need for a car use, less need for ULEZ scheme, the more it extends out of inner cities into rural area’s. A one size fits all approach has got to be the wrong policy, hence my reference to the socialist eastern bloc approach socialist Khan and Labour are using here.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,646
    Pulpstar said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    Unlike you to sanction lawbreaking BigG.
    I am not sanctioning anything but it is clear the fines are not being collected
    What Khan and Labour are doing with this clunking fist policy, is bringing the fist down on some of the poorer people in our society. Rather than helping them, where they really can’t help themselves, they are bullying them instead and then prancing around like they are so wonderful and can do no wrong.
    Absolute gibberish, as usual.
    Is it Labours anti car policies that’s ramping up everyone’s car insurance? I don’t actually pay it, my dad pays it for me, but how do you justify these crazy car insurance prices? You can’t can you? It is the poorer people in society who suffer most from attacks on car ownership and driving cars off the road. 😠
    Eh ?

    What are you on about. Ulez won't affect car insurance
    You sure anti car policies by a political party won’t do that?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504

    Yes, it's a battery story, but Toyota is one company I'd 'trust' on such stories.

    "Toyota says solid-state battery breakthrough can halve cost and size
    Japanese carmaker plans to commercialise technology in electric vehicles by 2027"

    https://www.ft.com/content/87cb8e92-8e82-4755-8fc3-2943f8f63e1d

    If they are claiming in consumer vehicles in 2027, they’d need to have a full sized test item in a test car now…

    Edit : there is no existing factory for solid state batteries on such a scale. So they will need one. To get one up and running in 2027, they would need to be breaking ground… about now. Are they?
    They might have a full-scale test items in cars by now. How can you tell what battery chemistries they are using?

    Factories can be altered... at an expense.

    'New miracle battery chemistry' stories occur regularly. I'm very bearish on them. I have little doubt that *one* approach will work, but it's impossible from the outside to guess which. But I take Toyota saying this much more seriously than, say, the uni of West Scotland.
    If they have a pack up and running, then it is surprising they didn’t show case the vehicle running laps. That would have really done wonders for their share price.

    Lithium to solid state battery production would be a tear out. If you are lucky, you’d keep the building…
    Do you criticise Musk for the same thing?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited July 2023
    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Seems about right. Each with their also rans hovering at 5% or lower, and one official or unofficial 'if the lead candidate falls under a bus' option. I guess maybe Harris could be a little higher, on the basis she is the planned VP nomination and despite not being super well liked might pick up a bit more support in that scenario.

    Harris has better approval ratings than Biden or Trump.
    Harris net approval -12.1%
    Biden net approval -13.8%
    Trump net approval -16,0%







    I think Harris is under rated
    Harris' favourable rating is below Biden and Trump there.

    She would hand the rustbelt on a plate back to Trump.

    Biden leads Trump 42% to 41% with Redfield but Trump beats Harris 42% to 41%
    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/joe-biden-administration-approval-ratings-and-hypothetical-voting-intention-25-june-2023/
    Her favourable rating is only just below Trump (39.2% versus 39.8%) but 9.5% don't have an opinion on Harris compared with 4.5% who don't have an opinion on Trump.

    It's too close to call. Lots of people write Harris off. She was pinned to Washington as the casting vote on the Senate but isn't any longer. She would handle Trump much better than Clinton did.
    Trump would not only beat Harris in the EC he would beat her in the popular vote too, De Santis would beat her as well. She would have little appeal beyond the coasts and lose rustbelt swing states like Michigan and Pennsylania which Biden won back from Trump.

    She would likely lead the Democrats to their worst defeat since Dukakis in 1988. She is an aloof elitist unlike Biden but also much more liberal left than Hillary was too and even African Americans aren't that keen on her because of her record as a prosecutor
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,646

    stodge said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    Unlike you to sanction lawbreaking BigG.
    I am not sanctioning anything but it is clear the fines are not being collected
    What Khan and Labour are doing with this clunking fist policy, is bringing the fist down on some of the poorer people in our society. Rather than helping them, where they really can’t help themselves, they are bullying them instead and then prancing around like they are so wonderful and can do no wrong.
    Jesus Christ. Most poor people in London don't have a car. Poor people in London are far more likely to live in areas with high air pollution. There is a scrappage scheme to help poor drivers who are affected.
    I've seen my daughter hospitalised with asthma twice. Thank God somebody is dealing with this issue.
    My argument being, maybe a policy not just popular in central London, but does an awful lot of good there, doesn’t do such great amounts of good everywhere, like Hemingford Grey, so is hated where it doesn’t. So expansion and extension of a policy that is “great and and popular here so must be marvellous for everyone” is actually wrong political thinking bordering on socialism. Can you not agree with that point?
    I seem to recall the same argument being used about the Poll Tax. It was popular and worked well in Wandsworth so it would be popular and work well everywhere?

    That was basically Thatcherite socialism by your definition.
    The police used to do more stop and test. Among other things, this found that the majority of pollution comes from a small group of vehicles, generally very poorly maintained. Commercial trucks being flogged to death and really old bangers were the stars, IIRC.

    They also found that, in then then ULEZ zone, there was a trade in putting cloned number plates on non-compliant vehicles. At first they thought they’d found stolen vehicles….
    The reality being, an actual problem not being properly addressed, everyone being used as a cash cow so politicians can claim green credentials? A lose lose lose or wrong wrong wrong situation?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504

    Yes, it's a battery story, but Toyota is one company I'd 'trust' on such stories.

    "Toyota says solid-state battery breakthrough can halve cost and size
    Japanese carmaker plans to commercialise technology in electric vehicles by 2027"

    https://www.ft.com/content/87cb8e92-8e82-4755-8fc3-2943f8f63e1d

    If they are claiming in consumer vehicles in 2027, they’d need to have a full sized test item in a test car now…

    Edit : there is no existing factory for solid state batteries on such a scale. So they will need one. To get one up and running in 2027, they would need to be breaking ground… about now. Are they?
    I hope they can re-use existing factories - or we are doing to suffer the problem where everyone is standing around waiting for the next leap in technology and not wanting to spend billions on something that will become obsolete.

    If we aren't suffering that already.
    In the latter half of the 19th cent, it was quite common for a factory to go from state of the art to scrap, in an afternoon.

    Think of the makers of compound armour plate, the day after the first all steel plates won their first competition.
    An anecdote: in the 1970s my dad's company had the job of altering a building at a chemical plant to accept a new computer to run part of the plant. This could only be done during the weekly shutdown of that part of the plant. It involved new power supplies going in, and the old kit being thrown out as scrap, for speed (basically smashed up). It had to be done in a couple of days, to give time for the new kit to go in. And, from what I heard, also involved *very* fast-setting, although weaker, concrete.

    The computer was purchased (sadly, I don't know the make or model...) and put in careful store. The shutdown came, but for various reasons the work could not go ahead on time, and the old computer not removed, and the new computer not installed. It was later sold on for a fraction of its value, and a couple of years later another system purchased at vast cost - in a different building ...

    Even in the 1970s, the tech was moving fast...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153
    edited July 2023

    Yes, it's a battery story, but Toyota is one company I'd 'trust' on such stories.

    "Toyota says solid-state battery breakthrough can halve cost and size
    Japanese carmaker plans to commercialise technology in electric vehicles by 2027"

    https://www.ft.com/content/87cb8e92-8e82-4755-8fc3-2943f8f63e1d

    If they are claiming in consumer vehicles in 2027, they’d need to have a full sized test item in a test car now…

    Edit : there is no existing factory for solid state batteries on such a scale. So they will need one. To get one up and running in 2027, they would need to be breaking ground… about now. Are they?
    They might have a full-scale test items in cars by now. How can you tell what battery chemistries they are using?

    Factories can be altered... at an expense.

    'New miracle battery chemistry' stories occur regularly. I'm very bearish on them. I have little doubt that *one* approach will work, but it's impossible from the outside to guess which. But I take Toyota saying this much more seriously than, say, the uni of West Scotland.
    If they have a pack up and running, then it is surprising they didn’t show case the vehicle running laps. That would have really done wonders for their share price.

    Lithium to solid state battery production would be a tear out. If you are lucky, you’d keep the building…
    Do you criticise Musk for the same thing?
    Not for making claims about batteries.

    Tesla seem to have, over years, been quite good at building vehicles which then match the range tests by government bodies and others.

    As far as I am aware, they have stayed well away from any claims of revolutionary technology in batteries - beyond bringing reliability to large scale use of small lithium cells. Which was actually a piece of rather interesting engineering.

    IIRC they were heavily criticised for their lack design approach at the beginning - to the point of their business being called a fraud.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,992

    stodge said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    Unlike you to sanction lawbreaking BigG.
    I am not sanctioning anything but it is clear the fines are not being collected
    What Khan and Labour are doing with this clunking fist policy, is bringing the fist down on some of the poorer people in our society. Rather than helping them, where they really can’t help themselves, they are bullying them instead and then prancing around like they are so wonderful and can do no wrong.
    Jesus Christ. Most poor people in London don't have a car. Poor people in London are far more likely to live in areas with high air pollution. There is a scrappage scheme to help poor drivers who are affected.
    I've seen my daughter hospitalised with asthma twice. Thank God somebody is dealing with this issue.
    My argument being, maybe a policy not just popular in central London, but does an awful lot of good there, doesn’t do such great amounts of good everywhere, like Hemingford Grey, so is hated where it doesn’t. So expansion and extension of a policy that is “great and and popular here so must be marvellous for everyone” is actually wrong political thinking bordering on socialism. Can you not agree with that point?
    I seem to recall the same argument being used about the Poll Tax. It was popular and worked well in Wandsworth so it would be popular and work well everywhere?

    That was basically Thatcherite socialism by your definition.
    now you are deliberately taking this down a rabbit hole, a sure sign of losing the argument. I’m not a poll tax supporter. it was obviously before my time, but I see nothing wrong with progressive taxation like current council tax to part fund local democracy, and no reason to switch to poll tax to replace it.

    But surely it must be true, more need for a car use, less need for ULEZ scheme, the more it extends out of inner cities into rural area’s. A one size fits all approach has got to be the wrong policy, hence my reference to the socialist eastern bloc approach socialist Khan and Labour are using here.
    Not losing the argument, trying to educate a little.

    The ULEZ scheme is nothing to do with the number of cars but the type of cars - its aim is to take off the road older vehicles with greater emissions. I do accept the need for a more thoughtful introduction of this policy in more car-dependent areas but no one is proposing it be extended nationally or even to all but the largest towns and cities.

    I'd also make the more asinine point we all breathe the same air - having cleaner air in our towns and cities means better air elsewhere. ULEZ is also about public health - reducing asthma and other respiratory conditions perhaps reducing the need for hospital treatment and care thus allowing the diversion of valuable NHS resources to other areas of need.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504

    Yes, it's a battery story, but Toyota is one company I'd 'trust' on such stories.

    "Toyota says solid-state battery breakthrough can halve cost and size
    Japanese carmaker plans to commercialise technology in electric vehicles by 2027"

    https://www.ft.com/content/87cb8e92-8e82-4755-8fc3-2943f8f63e1d

    If they are claiming in consumer vehicles in 2027, they’d need to have a full sized test item in a test car now…

    Edit : there is no existing factory for solid state batteries on such a scale. So they will need one. To get one up and running in 2027, they would need to be breaking ground… about now. Are they?
    They might have a full-scale test items in cars by now. How can you tell what battery chemistries they are using?

    Factories can be altered... at an expense.

    'New miracle battery chemistry' stories occur regularly. I'm very bearish on them. I have little doubt that *one* approach will work, but it's impossible from the outside to guess which. But I take Toyota saying this much more seriously than, say, the uni of West Scotland.
    If they have a pack up and running, then it is surprising they didn’t show case the vehicle running laps. That would have really done wonders for their share price.

    Lithium to solid state battery production would be a tear out. If you are lucky, you’d keep the building…
    Do you criticise Musk for the same thing?
    Not for making claims about batteries.

    Tesla seem to have, over years, been quite good at building vehicles which then match the range tests by government bodies and others.

    As far as I am aware, they have stayed well away from any claims of revolutionary technology in batteries - beyond bringing reliability to large scale use of small lithium cells. Which was actually a piece of rather interesting engineering.

    (snip)
    Because Panasonic do it for them...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145
    ohnotnow said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    Well civil disobedience is a form of protest I am sure that all those complaining about the laws affecting JSO and XR and supporting them will also be supporting this protest
    The best way is in the ballot box
    The ballot box does nothing because it doesn't matter whether you vote tory,lab or lib dem
    It seems to matter rather a lot to the people who do vote for one of those.

    Just because you don't see a big enough difference to please you, doesn't mean others agree.
    The country has a lot of stupid people....isn't that cannon on the left when you question about how people can vote tory...I just have a wider definition.
    I don't vote anymore because it really is a complete and utter waste of time when all three parties just want to manage the decline.

    When a party comes round with an actual plan that might work I will vote for them in the meantime I will do all I can to break things
    Everybody's wrong apart from me!
    When people keep voting for parties that will do fuck all to improve their lot then yes they are stupid. That is the argument that people like you use for people voting tory. The only difference is I say the same about labour and the lib dems.

    I get you have this impression you are somehow superior to tory voters...no you arent. Starmer will get in next time I have no doubt and under his stewardship I guarantee the lot of the bottom 70 percent of the country will worsen, would be the same if you elect the tories or the lib dems.

    They all follow the same ideology we have had for the last 40 years in this country. The ideology that landed us here. Not my fault you are so tribal as to believe your team will make stuff better by following those same policies if slightly tweaked. You go ahead and believe you are an intelligent person though if it makes you feel better
    Just so you know, I've voted Tory more than I've voted Labour. Back in the day when the Tories were a sensible, liberal party.

    I've never voted Labour. But I might.

    You're the calling (nearly) all voters stupid, not me. You're raging at your own reflection.
    Voters desperately switch from one to the other hoping they will protect there middle class life styles. Sorry they wont. If the tories get in the top 20% will do well and the lifestyles of the bottom 80% will worsen, same will happen under starmer or whoever the leader of the lib dems is.

    The ballot box is no longer a vehicle that can enforce change in the way the country needs because too many are just hoping to protect there lifestyle and hoping in the face of all the evidence that changing their vote from one centrist party to another will do it.

    Sooner the whole country crashes and burns the sooner we can start to rebuild. Yes it will hurt but the only way things might change for the better for those less well off.
    It’s interesting to get this sort of revolutionary opinion on PB as it’s quite unusual. What sort of revolution would you like, a right wing, left wing, religious, or separatist/localist sort?
    As long as it results in imperial measurements and more grammar schools - it'll go down a storm.
    And bringing back matron!


    (Ignoring the fact that we have had matron back for over two decades)
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,992
    The one thing I have heard about batteries is there is concern about the weight of modern hybrid vehicles especially those parked in multi-storey car parks where there is concern the structures built in thr 60s and 70s can't take the weight of hundreds of hybrid vehicles.

    Anyone heard this?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153
    A
    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    Unlike you to sanction lawbreaking BigG.
    I am not sanctioning anything but it is clear the fines are not being collected
    What Khan and Labour are doing with this clunking fist policy, is bringing the fist down on some of the poorer people in our society. Rather than helping them, where they really can’t help themselves, they are bullying them instead and then prancing around like they are so wonderful and can do no wrong.
    Jesus Christ. Most poor people in London don't have a car. Poor people in London are far more likely to live in areas with high air pollution. There is a scrappage scheme to help poor drivers who are affected.
    I've seen my daughter hospitalised with asthma twice. Thank God somebody is dealing with this issue.
    My argument being, maybe a policy not just popular in central London, but does an awful lot of good there, doesn’t do such great amounts of good everywhere, like Hemingford Grey, so is hated where it doesn’t. So expansion and extension of a policy that is “great and and popular here so must be marvellous for everyone” is actually wrong political thinking bordering on socialism. Can you not agree with that point?
    I seem to recall the same argument being used about the Poll Tax. It was popular and worked well in Wandsworth so it would be popular and work well everywhere?

    That was basically Thatcherite socialism by your definition.
    now you are deliberately taking this down a rabbit hole, a sure sign of losing the argument. I’m not a poll tax supporter. it was obviously before my time, but I see nothing wrong with progressive taxation like current council tax to part fund local democracy, and no reason to switch to poll tax to replace it.

    But surely it must be true, more need for a car use, less need for ULEZ scheme, the more it extends out of inner cities into rural area’s. A one size fits all approach has got to be the wrong policy, hence my reference to the socialist eastern bloc approach socialist Khan and Labour are using here.
    Not losing the argument, trying to educate a little.

    The ULEZ scheme is nothing to do with the number of cars but the type of cars - its aim is to take off the road older vehicles with greater emissions. I do accept the need for a more thoughtful introduction of this policy in more car-dependent areas but no one is proposing it be extended nationally or even to all but the largest towns and cities.

    I'd also make the more asinine point we all breathe the same air - having cleaner air in our towns and cities means better air elsewhere. ULEZ is also about public health - reducing asthma and other respiratory conditions perhaps reducing the need for hospital treatment and care thus allowing the diversion of valuable NHS resources to other areas of need.
    The reason for ULEZ is concentration of pollution. There are some old satellite photos of how cities, in certain lighting condition were smog zones, surrounded by cleaner country air.

    As we improve standards for air pollution, rather than just accepting the Good Old Days of pea soup fogs and people coughing themselves to death… something has to give.

    ULEZ is the simplest approach to this. And yes, it does have some effects that need to be recognised.

    But the alternative is not to do anything about air quality.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,772

    On topic.
    (Posted by Kari Lake’s campaign manager on twitter btw)

    Jesus.

    If you ever post something like that again please have the courtesy to post a trigger warning.
    Sorry, I now realise Leon might have a stroke on coming across that.
    So to speak.
    That's if you post Kari Lake in a bikini.

    (Please don't, btw.)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145
    Fishing said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    Well civil disobedience is a form of protest I am sure that all those complaining about the laws affecting JSO and XR and supporting them will also be supporting this protest
    The best way is in the ballot box
    The ballot box does nothing because it doesn't matter whether you vote tory,lab or lib dem
    It seems to matter rather a lot to the people who do vote for one of those.

    Just because you don't see a big enough difference to please you, doesn't mean others agree.
    The country has a lot of stupid people....isn't that cannon on the left when you question about how people can vote tory...I just have a wider definition.
    I don't vote anymore because it really is a complete and utter waste of time when all three parties just want to manage the decline.

    When a party comes round with an actual plan that might work I will vote for them in the meantime I will do all I can to break things
    Everybody's wrong apart from me!
    When people keep voting for parties that will do fuck all to improve their lot then yes they are stupid. That is the argument that people like you use for people voting tory. The only difference is I say the same about labour and the lib dems.

    I get you have this impression you are somehow superior to tory voters...no you arent. Starmer will get in next time I have no doubt and under his stewardship I guarantee the lot of the bottom 70 percent of the country will worsen, would be the same if you elect the tories or the lib dems.

    They all follow the same ideology we have had for the last 40 years in this country. The ideology that landed us here. Not my fault you are so tribal as to believe your team will make stuff better by following those same policies if slightly tweaked. You go ahead and believe you are an intelligent person though if it makes you feel better
    Just so you know, I've voted Tory more than I've voted Labour. Back in the day when the Tories were a sensible, liberal party.

    I've never voted Labour. But I might.

    You're the calling (nearly) all voters stupid, not me. You're raging at your own reflection.
    Voters desperately switch from one to the other hoping they will protect there middle class life styles. Sorry they wont. If the tories get in the top 20% will do well and the lifestyles of the bottom 80% will worsen, same will happen under starmer or whoever the leader of the lib dems is.

    The ballot box is no longer a vehicle that can enforce change in the way the country needs because too many are just hoping to protect there lifestyle and hoping in the face of all the evidence that changing their vote from one centrist party to another will do it.

    Sooner the whole country crashes and burns the sooner we can start to rebuild. Yes it will hurt but the only way things might change for the better for those less well off.
    It’s interesting to get this sort of revolutionary opinion on PB as it’s quite unusual. What sort of revolution would you like, a right wing, left wing, religious, or separatist/localist sort?
    I haven't argued for any way of going, I just see it as we can't keep on this path. Over the last forty years the poor have got poorer, the rich have got richer. This can't go on and electing someone of any rosette colour to keep on with the same policies is madness.
    In most Western countries it’s more the case that growth has stalled and inequality has increased (though not everywhere) in the last 16 years since the financial crisis.

    That's because the financial crisis discredited orthodox, free market economics amongst voters.

    Completely illogically, since it occurred in the financial services sector, which is about the most regulated, government-controlled part of the private sector there is, apart maybe from housebuilding, which is of course even more screwed up.

    It really isn't rocket science - markets generally allocate resources better than governments do, because people who operate in them are closer to the action and afraid of going bankrupt, whereas governments are generally but not always remote, incompetent and wasteful. And if you penalise the successful and enterprising and reward the lazy and failing, you'll have less success and enterprise and more laziness and failure.

    But anyway, we've had creeping, tax-and-spend managerial socialism virtually everywhere in the free world, and, completely unsurprisingly, we're left with no growth, and even, in some years, absolute decline.
    You do remember why financial services are so closely regulated surely? Or were you born after 2008?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657

    I’m posting again on the bizarre idea - signed off by the government - to close railway ticket offices.

    Apparently all ticket offices at Euston, for example, are to go.

    This is the “enshittification” of the railways.

    I used to commute regularly to London when in business in the 1990s and never used a ticket office even then
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153
    edited July 2023
    A
    stodge said:

    The one thing I have heard about batteries is there is concern about the weight of modern hybrid vehicles especially those parked in multi-storey car parks where there is concern the structures built in thr 60s and 70s can't take the weight of hundreds of hybrid vehicles.

    Anyone heard this?

    EVs are 200-300kg heavier than their ICE equivalents. Out of tons.

    A car park should have multiple 100s of percentage structural margins.

    I would suggest there is more a problem with shoddy construction, shoddy maintenance and people driving giant SUVs (especially on the US)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,395
    edited July 2023

    I’m posting again on the bizarre idea - signed off by the government - to close railway ticket offices.

    Apparently all ticket offices at Euston, for example, are to go.

    This is the “enshittification” of the railways.

    I used to commute regularly to London when in business in the 1990s and never used a ticket office even then
    "commute" and "regularly".

    And where did you get the season ticket?

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504

    I’m posting again on the bizarre idea - signed off by the government - to close railway ticket offices.

    Apparently all ticket offices at Euston, for example, are to go.

    This is the “enshittification” of the railways.

    I used to commute regularly to London when in business in the 1990s and never used a ticket office even then
    When I lived in London in 1991-5, I used monthly tickets. But I purchased them at the ticket office.

    Times and tech have changed since then, though.

    One thing I will say though, as an occasional visitor to London: Oyster and tap-in, tap-out are non-intuitive and non-obvious compared to tickets. Great for the frequent user, opaque to someone who rarely frequents the metropolis.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    Carnyx said:

    I’m posting again on the bizarre idea - signed off by the government - to close railway ticket offices.

    Apparently all ticket offices at Euston, for example, are to go.

    This is the “enshittification” of the railways.

    I used to commute regularly to London when in business in the 1990s and never used a ticket office even then
    "commute" and "regularly".

    And where did you get the season ticket?

    I didn't buy a season ticket

    I bought tickets as I needed them online
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153
    Carnyx said:

    I’m posting again on the bizarre idea - signed off by the government - to close railway ticket offices.

    Apparently all ticket offices at Euston, for example, are to go.

    This is the “enshittification” of the railways.

    I used to commute regularly to London when in business in the 1990s and never used a ticket office even then
    "commute" and "regularly".

    And where did you get the season ticket?

    TfL, for example, doesn’t sell their yearly season tickets over the counter or over the phone.

    You always had to buy them remotely, first via post, now online.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,395

    Carnyx said:

    I’m posting again on the bizarre idea - signed off by the government - to close railway ticket offices.

    Apparently all ticket offices at Euston, for example, are to go.

    This is the “enshittification” of the railways.

    I used to commute regularly to London when in business in the 1990s and never used a ticket office even then
    "commute" and "regularly".

    And where did you get the season ticket?

    I didn't buy a season ticket

    I bought tickets as I needed them online
    But you were familiar with (a) the route and best tickets to buy and (b) the internet.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    On ULEZ, which seems to be the "miracle policy" for the Conservatives, re-establishing their popularity (oh, it was a single by-election in a marginal Ward in Cambridge?) and giving them a distinctive messgae for the country (you can breathe whatever crap you like but your car is safe), my recollection was in Inner London, 96% of vehicles were compliant.

    It's interesting to note fines arten't being collected (seemingly) but given TFL's failure to so anything about endemic fare evasion, I really shouldn't be surprised. The money of course has long stopped being the issue, the issue is the notion Khan and those who support him are "anti-car" and are fleecing car owners in outer London.

    The harmful effects of diesel particulate emissions are well known - perhaps calling time on older diesels isn't the worst idea. With evidence of a warming world mounting by the day, it;s tempting to take the view "what can Britain do in isolation, what about China, India and other countries burning fossil fuels?". There's been an interesting piece today about the impact of declining levels of sulphur dioxide in maritume fuel.

    If diesels are so evil, why don't Khan and co. just ban them instead of making money out of them?
    You haven't quite got this taxation and public spending thing have you Sunil? Khan's not making any money out of ULEZ - his salary stays the same.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,395

    Carnyx said:

    I’m posting again on the bizarre idea - signed off by the government - to close railway ticket offices.

    Apparently all ticket offices at Euston, for example, are to go.

    This is the “enshittification” of the railways.

    I used to commute regularly to London when in business in the 1990s and never used a ticket office even then
    "commute" and "regularly".

    And where did you get the season ticket?

    TfL, for example, doesn’t sell their yearly season tickets over the counter or over the phone.

    You always had to buy them remotely, first via post, now online.
    POst is easy. Phone, not so much.

    It's just another part of the exclusion of the poor, old, disabled, confused and so on from the body politic.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/05/rail-ticket-offices-england-closure-reaction
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,395
    edited July 2023

    I’m posting again on the bizarre idea - signed off by the government - to close railway ticket offices.

    Apparently all ticket offices at Euston, for example, are to go.

    This is the “enshittification” of the railways.

    I used to commute regularly to London when in business in the 1990s and never used a ticket office even then
    When I lived in London in 1991-5, I used monthly tickets. But I purchased them at the ticket office.

    Times and tech have changed since then, though.

    One thing I will say though, as an occasional visitor to London: Oyster and tap-in, tap-out are non-intuitive and non-obvious compared to tickets. Great for the frequent user, opaque to someone who rarely frequents the metropolis.
    Interesting. I had the same problem. Edit: very relieved to know it wasn't just me.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    I’m posting again on the bizarre idea - signed off by the government - to close railway ticket offices.

    Apparently all ticket offices at Euston, for example, are to go.

    This is the “enshittification” of the railways.

    I used to commute regularly to London when in business in the 1990s and never used a ticket office even then
    "commute" and "regularly".

    And where did you get the season ticket?

    I didn't buy a season ticket

    I bought tickets as I needed them online
    But you were familiar with (a) the route and best tickets to buy and (b) the internet.
    Yes but that is the way everything is going today
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,395

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    I’m posting again on the bizarre idea - signed off by the government - to close railway ticket offices.

    Apparently all ticket offices at Euston, for example, are to go.

    This is the “enshittification” of the railways.

    I used to commute regularly to London when in business in the 1990s and never used a ticket office even then
    "commute" and "regularly".

    And where did you get the season ticket?

    I didn't buy a season ticket

    I bought tickets as I needed them online
    But you were familiar with (a) the route and best tickets to buy and (b) the internet.
    Yes but that is the way everything is going today
    That could be the epitaph of The Man Who Tried To Justify Tory Policies.

  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,690
    FPT as I have been out this evening

    dixiedean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    ONS, or OSR as they now style themselves, rebukes Sadiq Khan for his figures that suggest only 10% of vehicles currently driving in the expanded zone, are not exempt from paying the charge.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/30/sadiq-khan-london-mayor-rebuked-transparency-ulez/

    Meanwhile, figures for last year, with the smaller zone around the A406 and A205 (north circular and south circular roads) show revenues of £230m (including £75m in fines), and outstanding fines of £250m.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    Definitely not a money grab, not at all.

    Oh, and the expansion zone is many times bigger than the existing zone.

    £12.50 a day. All day, every day.
    You can get a compliant car for less than that.
    Can you? Link please, to car that’s £12.50 a day. Presumably one of these American-style “Buy Here Pay Here” dealerships now has one available?
    £12.50/day is £375/month. That's going to buy something reasonable, if not DuraAce-compliant.
    The important point is that no deposit and no credit rating needs to be required - a product available for someone on a zero-hours contract, let’s say delivering parcels.
    While we are taking about people who are in such positions…

    A while back we were discussing bank account access for the poor. Given the profusion of accounts with rapid sign up, offering no credit, but with all the other facilities of a bank account, from both the banks and the alt-banks, what is the significant blocker for poor people getting a simple account like that?

    Credit worthiness shouldn’t be the block there - what is?
    Depends on whether they are available from the HS or only online. For the 14 million people with very limited or no online access the latter could be a problem.

    Obviously if there is a HS option that does not apply.
    Anyone on Universal Credit pretty much has to be online, or have a helper who can get online for them.
    I think the latter is more likely to be the case given that the Digital Poverty charity are the ones I am quoting to get the 14 million figure (which I must admit very mch surprised me when I first heard it a couple of months ago).

    Having someone do the online UC stuff for you once every few months is not the same as having daily or even weekly access to banking
    It isn't once every few months.
    You get regular to-do lists and all queries, complaints, questions are Online.
    Still something that can be dealt with by getting someone else to access for you.

    So the question remains, how do 14 million people with limited or no internet access manage to handle online banking?
    https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0022/234364/digital-exclusion-review-2022.pdf

    Lots of different numbers around even in this one report but "According to Ofcom’s Communications Affordability
    Tracker, the latest estimate regarding the number of households which do not have internet access,
    at least partially due to cost, stands at 100,000". Admittedly other numbers in the report are higher but not anywhere near 14 million.

    The 14 million number likely includes lots of people who have internet access but consider it expensive and/or people who actively choose mobile internet access ahead of landline internet access.

    And of those without internet access the most common reason by far (74%) was no need to go online. Price was at around 11%.
    As I said the 14 million comes from the Digital Poverty Alliance and to be honest I would trust them a hell of a lot more than Ofcom.

    From their own website

    "6% of the UK population have no access to the internet – with 20% of young people aged 8-24 lacking the ability to get online."

    That is around 4 million people with no access at all. There are an additional 10 million with only very limited access.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504

    A

    stodge said:

    The one thing I have heard about batteries is there is concern about the weight of modern hybrid vehicles especially those parked in multi-storey car parks where there is concern the structures built in thr 60s and 70s can't take the weight of hundreds of hybrid vehicles.

    Anyone heard this?

    EVs are 200-300kg heavier than their ICE equivalents. Out of tons.

    A car park should have multiple 100s of percentage structural margins.

    I would suggest there is more a problem with shoddy construction, shoddy maintenance and people driving giant SUVs (especially on the US)
    "A car park should have multiple 100s of percentage structural margins."

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

    Particularly as many are fifty years old, and materials age. Most importantly, cars have increased in weight massively over the decades.

    A 1970 Austin Mini 1000 weighed 620 Kg. A modern Mimi weights double or triple that.

    Another example: a Land Rover series 1 weighed, 1184kg (less than a modern Mini). A Land Rover Defender weighs 2348kg.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806

    I’m posting again on the bizarre idea - signed off by the government - to close railway ticket offices.

    Apparently all ticket offices at Euston, for example, are to go.

    This is the “enshittification” of the railways.

    I used to commute regularly to London when in business in the 1990s and never used a ticket office even then
    When I lived in London in 1991-5, I used monthly tickets. But I purchased them at the ticket office.

    Times and tech have changed since then, though.

    One thing I will say though, as an occasional visitor to London: Oyster and tap-in, tap-out are non-intuitive and non-obvious compared to tickets. Great for the frequent user, opaque to someone who rarely frequents the metropolis.
    I agree they could do with better signage and instructions around tap-in and out, especially since there are so many tourists in London.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,395

    A

    stodge said:

    The one thing I have heard about batteries is there is concern about the weight of modern hybrid vehicles especially those parked in multi-storey car parks where there is concern the structures built in thr 60s and 70s can't take the weight of hundreds of hybrid vehicles.

    Anyone heard this?

    EVs are 200-300kg heavier than their ICE equivalents. Out of tons.

    A car park should have multiple 100s of percentage structural margins.

    I would suggest there is more a problem with shoddy construction, shoddy maintenance and people driving giant SUVs (especially on the US)
    "A car park should have multiple 100s of percentage structural margins."

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

    Particularly as many are fifty years old, and materials age. Most importantly, cars have increased in weight massively over the decades.

    A 1970 Austin Mini 1000 weighed 620 Kg. A modern Mimi weights double or triple that.

    Another example: a Land Rover series 1 weighed, 1184kg (less than a modern Mini). A Land Rover Defender weighs 2348kg.
    And car parks have varying loadings (night vs day), and (to some extent) dynamic ones.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,395

    FPT as I have been out this evening

    dixiedean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    ONS, or OSR as they now style themselves, rebukes Sadiq Khan for his figures that suggest only 10% of vehicles currently driving in the expanded zone, are not exempt from paying the charge.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/30/sadiq-khan-london-mayor-rebuked-transparency-ulez/

    Meanwhile, figures for last year, with the smaller zone around the A406 and A205 (north circular and south circular roads) show revenues of £230m (including £75m in fines), and outstanding fines of £250m.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    Definitely not a money grab, not at all.

    Oh, and the expansion zone is many times bigger than the existing zone.

    £12.50 a day. All day, every day.
    You can get a compliant car for less than that.
    Can you? Link please, to car that’s £12.50 a day. Presumably one of these American-style “Buy Here Pay Here” dealerships now has one available?
    £12.50/day is £375/month. That's going to buy something reasonable, if not DuraAce-compliant.
    The important point is that no deposit and no credit rating needs to be required - a product available for someone on a zero-hours contract, let’s say delivering parcels.
    While we are taking about people who are in such positions…

    A while back we were discussing bank account access for the poor. Given the profusion of accounts with rapid sign up, offering no credit, but with all the other facilities of a bank account, from both the banks and the alt-banks, what is the significant blocker for poor people getting a simple account like that?

    Credit worthiness shouldn’t be the block there - what is?
    Depends on whether they are available from the HS or only online. For the 14 million people with very limited or no online access the latter could be a problem.

    Obviously if there is a HS option that does not apply.
    Anyone on Universal Credit pretty much has to be online, or have a helper who can get online for them.
    I think the latter is more likely to be the case given that the Digital Poverty charity are the ones I am quoting to get the 14 million figure (which I must admit very mch surprised me when I first heard it a couple of months ago).

    Having someone do the online UC stuff for you once every few months is not the same as having daily or even weekly access to banking
    It isn't once every few months.
    You get regular to-do lists and all queries, complaints, questions are Online.
    Still something that can be dealt with by getting someone else to access for you.

    So the question remains, how do 14 million people with limited or no internet access manage to handle online banking?
    https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0022/234364/digital-exclusion-review-2022.pdf

    Lots of different numbers around even in this one report but "According to Ofcom’s Communications Affordability
    Tracker, the latest estimate regarding the number of households which do not have internet access,
    at least partially due to cost, stands at 100,000". Admittedly other numbers in the report are higher but not anywhere near 14 million.

    The 14 million number likely includes lots of people who have internet access but consider it expensive and/or people who actively choose mobile internet access ahead of landline internet access.

    And of those without internet access the most common reason by far (74%) was no need to go online. Price was at around 11%.
    As I said the 14 million comes from the Digital Poverty Alliance and to be honest I would trust them a hell of a lot more than Ofcom.

    From their own website

    "6% of the UK population have no access to the internet – with 20% of young people aged 8-24 lacking the ability to get online."

    That is around 4 million people with no access at all. There are an additional 10 million with only very limited access.
    Thanks. That's very interesting, in the light of the inhumane policies so fervently espoused or excused by some on here.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,915

    A

    stodge said:

    The one thing I have heard about batteries is there is concern about the weight of modern hybrid vehicles especially those parked in multi-storey car parks where there is concern the structures built in thr 60s and 70s can't take the weight of hundreds of hybrid vehicles.

    Anyone heard this?

    EVs are 200-300kg heavier than their ICE equivalents. Out of tons.

    A car park should have multiple 100s of percentage structural margins.

    I would suggest there is more a problem with shoddy construction, shoddy maintenance and people driving giant SUVs (especially on the US)
    "A car park should have multiple 100s of percentage structural margins."

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

    Particularly as many are fifty years old, and materials age. Most importantly, cars have increased in weight massively over the decades.

    A 1970 Austin Mini 1000 weighed 620 Kg. A modern Mimi weights double or triple that.

    Another example: a Land Rover series 1 weighed, 1184kg (less than a modern Mini). A Land Rover Defender weighs 2348kg.
    Most of the increase in weight isn't due to being electric cars then, just a general increase in weight of new cars.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,656
    Barnesian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Barnesian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Hate to say it, but I think RFK is underpriced. He’s not going away and intends to run to the Convention.

    You're mad
    I’m not saying he has any chance, I’m saying his price is likely to come in at some point between now and next summer.
    He's horrible as a trading bet. He is the same price for the Dem nom
    Which implies that if he wins the nomination, he has zero chance of winning the presidency (in the opinion of punters).
    100% chance
    You're right! Which is crazy.

    EDIT: Not that you're right but 100% chance. What's going on?
    Betfair markets are imperfect?

    There's not enough money to make on these kind of "arbs" in politics, but I know several people who've built careers finding them in football and other sports.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Hundreds of millions in Ulez fines are going unpaid as drivers “revolt” over the controversial charge, casting doubt over its expansion.

    Penalty charge notices relating Sadiq Khan’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) worth £255m were outstanding at the end of last year, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The Mayor of London’s flagship net zero scheme was owed more money from drivers in unpaid fines than it made during the financial year from 2022 to 2023, figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    LOL if true.

    @RochdalePioneers was irritated and angry this morning that anyone should have the temerity to complain and anyway it only affected a handful of cars

    Seems it is affecting a large number of ordinary folks who are either unable to pay or won't pay
    Well civil disobedience is a form of protest I am sure that all those complaining about the laws affecting JSO and XR and supporting them will also be supporting this protest
    The best way is in the ballot box
    The ballot box does nothing because it doesn't matter whether you vote tory,lab or lib dem
    It seems to matter rather a lot to the people who do vote for one of those.

    Just because you don't see a big enough difference to please you, doesn't mean others agree.
    The country has a lot of stupid people....isn't that cannon on the left when you question about how people can vote tory...I just have a wider definition.
    I don't vote anymore because it really is a complete and utter waste of time when all three parties just want to manage the decline.

    When a party comes round with an actual plan that might work I will vote for them in the meantime I will do all I can to break things
    Everybody's wrong apart from me!
    When people keep voting for parties that will do fuck all to improve their lot then yes they are stupid. That is the argument that people like you use for people voting tory. The only difference is I say the same about labour and the lib dems.

    I get you have this impression you are somehow superior to tory voters...no you arent. Starmer will get in next time I have no doubt and under his stewardship I guarantee the lot of the bottom 70 percent of the country will worsen, would be the same if you elect the tories or the lib dems.

    They all follow the same ideology we have had for the last 40 years in this country. The ideology that landed us here. Not my fault you are so tribal as to believe your team will make stuff better by following those same policies if slightly tweaked. You go ahead and believe you are an intelligent person though if it makes you feel better
    Just so you know, I've voted Tory more than I've voted Labour. Back in the day when the Tories were a sensible, liberal party.

    I've never voted Labour. But I might.

    You're the calling (nearly) all voters stupid, not me. You're raging at your own reflection.
    Voters desperately switch from one to the other hoping they will protect there middle class life styles. Sorry they wont. If the tories get in the top 20% will do well and the lifestyles of the bottom 80% will worsen, same will happen under starmer or whoever the leader of the lib dems is.

    The ballot box is no longer a vehicle that can enforce change in the way the country needs because too many are just hoping to protect there lifestyle and hoping in the face of all the evidence that changing their vote from one centrist party to another will do it.

    Sooner the whole country crashes and burns the sooner we can start to rebuild. Yes it will hurt but the only way things might change for the better for those less well off.
    It’s interesting to get this sort of revolutionary opinion on PB as it’s quite unusual. What sort of revolution would you like, a right wing, left wing, religious, or separatist/localist sort?
    As long as it results in imperial measurements and more grammar schools - it'll go down a storm.
    And bringing back matron!


    (Ignoring the fact that we have had matron back for over two decades)
    "Matron! Take him away!"
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153
    edited July 2023

    A

    stodge said:

    The one thing I have heard about batteries is there is concern about the weight of modern hybrid vehicles especially those parked in multi-storey car parks where there is concern the structures built in thr 60s and 70s can't take the weight of hundreds of hybrid vehicles.

    Anyone heard this?

    EVs are 200-300kg heavier than their ICE equivalents. Out of tons.

    A car park should have multiple 100s of percentage structural margins.

    I would suggest there is more a problem with shoddy construction, shoddy maintenance and people driving giant SUVs (especially on the US)
    "A car park should have multiple 100s of percentage structural margins."

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

    Particularly as many are fifty years old, and materials age. Most importantly, cars have increased in weight massively over the decades.

    A 1970 Austin Mini 1000 weighed 620 Kg. A modern Mimi weights double or triple that.

    Another example: a Land Rover series 1 weighed, 1184kg (less than a modern Mini). A Land Rover Defender weighs 2348kg.
    Yup - and I wonder how many have been given a special “it’s alright really, those cracks mean nothing, and we will fix them Real Soon” write up.

    Edit: I recall Ralph Nader being shocked in an interview, when he complained about the weight of modern cars. The interviewer pointed out that it was, in large measure, a result of his actions.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504

    I’m posting again on the bizarre idea - signed off by the government - to close railway ticket offices.

    Apparently all ticket offices at Euston, for example, are to go.

    This is the “enshittification” of the railways.

    I used to commute regularly to London when in business in the 1990s and never used a ticket office even then
    When I lived in London in 1991-5, I used monthly tickets. But I purchased them at the ticket office.

    Times and tech have changed since then, though.

    One thing I will say though, as an occasional visitor to London: Oyster and tap-in, tap-out are non-intuitive and non-obvious compared to tickets. Great for the frequent user, opaque to someone who rarely frequents the metropolis.
    I agree they could do with better signage and instructions around tap-in and out, especially since there are so many tourists in London.
    It is utterly confusing. I don't know what journeys I can use it on, and cannot (given some of my journeys are slightly uncommon). And the extension of tap-in outside of London will make it much worse.

    This is one of the reasons I'm against the closure of ticket offices.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,656

    I’m posting again on the bizarre idea - signed off by the government - to close railway ticket offices.

    Apparently all ticket offices at Euston, for example, are to go.

    This is the “enshittification” of the railways.

    I used to commute regularly to London when in business in the 1990s and never used a ticket office even then
    When I lived in London in 1991-5, I used monthly tickets. But I purchased them at the ticket office.

    Times and tech have changed since then, though.

    One thing I will say though, as an occasional visitor to London: Oyster and tap-in, tap-out are non-intuitive and non-obvious compared to tickets. Great for the frequent user, opaque to someone who rarely frequents the metropolis.
    Do you mean that you struggle with tapping in and out at the start of the journey?

    Or do you mean that you think that lots of people are utterly stupid?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504

    A

    stodge said:

    The one thing I have heard about batteries is there is concern about the weight of modern hybrid vehicles especially those parked in multi-storey car parks where there is concern the structures built in thr 60s and 70s can't take the weight of hundreds of hybrid vehicles.

    Anyone heard this?

    EVs are 200-300kg heavier than their ICE equivalents. Out of tons.

    A car park should have multiple 100s of percentage structural margins.

    I would suggest there is more a problem with shoddy construction, shoddy maintenance and people driving giant SUVs (especially on the US)
    "A car park should have multiple 100s of percentage structural margins."

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

    Particularly as many are fifty years old, and materials age. Most importantly, cars have increased in weight massively over the decades.

    A 1970 Austin Mini 1000 weighed 620 Kg. A modern Mimi weights double or triple that.

    Another example: a Land Rover series 1 weighed, 1184kg (less than a modern Mini). A Land Rover Defender weighs 2348kg.
    Yup - and I wonder how many have been given a special “it’s alright really, those cracks mean nothing, and we will fix them Real Soon” write up.
    Yes, but you blithely discount the significant extra increase from EVs. It matters.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806

    FPT as I have been out this evening

    dixiedean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    ONS, or OSR as they now style themselves, rebukes Sadiq Khan for his figures that suggest only 10% of vehicles currently driving in the expanded zone, are not exempt from paying the charge.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/30/sadiq-khan-london-mayor-rebuked-transparency-ulez/

    Meanwhile, figures for last year, with the smaller zone around the A406 and A205 (north circular and south circular roads) show revenues of £230m (including £75m in fines), and outstanding fines of £250m.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/great-ulez-revolt-drivers-snub-fines-250m-unpaid/

    Definitely not a money grab, not at all.

    Oh, and the expansion zone is many times bigger than the existing zone.

    £12.50 a day. All day, every day.
    You can get a compliant car for less than that.
    Can you? Link please, to car that’s £12.50 a day. Presumably one of these American-style “Buy Here Pay Here” dealerships now has one available?
    £12.50/day is £375/month. That's going to buy something reasonable, if not DuraAce-compliant.
    The important point is that no deposit and no credit rating needs to be required - a product available for someone on a zero-hours contract, let’s say delivering parcels.
    While we are taking about people who are in such positions…

    A while back we were discussing bank account access for the poor. Given the profusion of accounts with rapid sign up, offering no credit, but with all the other facilities of a bank account, from both the banks and the alt-banks, what is the significant blocker for poor people getting a simple account like that?

    Credit worthiness shouldn’t be the block there - what is?
    Depends on whether they are available from the HS or only online. For the 14 million people with very limited or no online access the latter could be a problem.

    Obviously if there is a HS option that does not apply.
    Anyone on Universal Credit pretty much has to be online, or have a helper who can get online for them.
    I think the latter is more likely to be the case given that the Digital Poverty charity are the ones I am quoting to get the 14 million figure (which I must admit very mch surprised me when I first heard it a couple of months ago).

    Having someone do the online UC stuff for you once every few months is not the same as having daily or even weekly access to banking
    It isn't once every few months.
    You get regular to-do lists and all queries, complaints, questions are Online.
    Still something that can be dealt with by getting someone else to access for you.

    So the question remains, how do 14 million people with limited or no internet access manage to handle online banking?
    https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0022/234364/digital-exclusion-review-2022.pdf

    Lots of different numbers around even in this one report but "According to Ofcom’s Communications Affordability
    Tracker, the latest estimate regarding the number of households which do not have internet access,
    at least partially due to cost, stands at 100,000". Admittedly other numbers in the report are higher but not anywhere near 14 million.

    The 14 million number likely includes lots of people who have internet access but consider it expensive and/or people who actively choose mobile internet access ahead of landline internet access.

    And of those without internet access the most common reason by far (74%) was no need to go online. Price was at around 11%.
    As I said the 14 million comes from the Digital Poverty Alliance and to be honest I would trust them a hell of a lot more than Ofcom.

    From their own website

    "6% of the UK population have no access to the internet – with 20% of young people aged 8-24 lacking the ability to get online."

    That is around 4 million people with no access at all. There are an additional 10 million with only very limited access.
    That said, the Digital Poverty Alliance is a pressure group with a mission to pursue. It's a laudable mission imo but they are clearly not unbiased.

    You might as well trust the Taxpayers' Alliance.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    rcs1000 said:

    I’m posting again on the bizarre idea - signed off by the government - to close railway ticket offices.

    Apparently all ticket offices at Euston, for example, are to go.

    This is the “enshittification” of the railways.

    I used to commute regularly to London when in business in the 1990s and never used a ticket office even then
    When I lived in London in 1991-5, I used monthly tickets. But I purchased them at the ticket office.

    Times and tech have changed since then, though.

    One thing I will say though, as an occasional visitor to London: Oyster and tap-in, tap-out are non-intuitive and non-obvious compared to tickets. Great for the frequent user, opaque to someone who rarely frequents the metropolis.
    Do you mean that you struggle with tapping in and out at the start of the journey?

    Or do you mean that you think that lots of people are utterly stupid?
    No. It's a question of knowing that's how you do it (the signage is horrible), and which journeys it can be used on, particularly if your endpoint or startpoint is on the outskirts of London. Is that station included or not? How can I find out?

    It's fine for frequent users; for infrequent users it's a case of wtf!

    Also, which bankcards can be used: an acquaintance has an American bank card that was not accepted.
This discussion has been closed.