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Wagner turns his troops around “to avoid bloodshed” – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,941

    Westie said:

    glw said:

    NYT - The Kremlin spokesman, Dmitri S. Peskov, announced that the criminal case against the Wagner leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin, would be dropped. Prigozhin will go to Belarus, Peskov said, and the fighters who rebelled with him would not be prosecuted by law given their "service at the front." Wagner fighters who did not participate in the mutiny will sign contracts with the Russian Ministry of Defense, he said.

    Prigozhin definitely lost then.
    Depends what his goal really was. Or is. Or will be?

    Was it Boris Johnson (or some cheap-jack pre-quel) who observed, Russia is a riddle wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma?
    He's lost control of Wagner, which is being broken up, and exiled to Belarus, presumably with a dubious promise that he won't be quietly assassinated.

    He didn't need to march on Moscow and kill 13 Russian pilots to achieve that outcome.
    If a private military contractor with thousands of personnel was driving towards DC, threatening to kill the Chairman of the JCS and Defense Secretary, and depose the President, and then it was settled by giving them immunity and exiling their leaders in Mexico, only an actual madman would claim that Biden was strengthened by it. What will happen is hard to say, but clearly Putin is losing control, even if he survives for today.
    Putin has handled this well. I agree though that his end is in sight. He probably won't stand in next year's elections. But if you think he's losing control, who is gaining it? Russia doesn't seem about to break up, much as it would please some if it did,.
    It does get a bit tedious to keep repeating, but the only person who has emerged from today enhanced is old dictator Luka.

    No sign of Putin on TV, and Peskov even said, further than that, that a new address from him wasn't planned. After he'd just called Prigozhin the biggest threat to Russia in decades, a traitor ? The traitor now has immunity, and is heading to Belarus, Lukashenko's domain. How can Putin credibly survive this ? I can't see what narrative one could credibly spin from it.
    A wild theory (since it's fun to speculate).

    Putin isn't in charge any more. While the regular army weren't willing to fire on Prigozhin, they weren't willing to support him, either. Some of Putin's inner circle made it clear to him his time was up, got word to Prigozhin that Putin was finished, but he wouldn't be able to take Moscow either. So they cut him a deal. Off Prigozhin goes to Belarus, with Putin either allowed to announce his retirement in due course, or simply remain the front man for whoever is really pulling the strings.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Axel Rose looks like a rocked up Christopher Hitchens!

    Whoever made the comment about his voice wasn’t kidding. Not sure I would have recognised him.
    Yes, a pale shadow imo. Slash still great though.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    edited June 2023
    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    Wise politically. Aged owner-occupiers and their expectant heirs are your core support, and constitute the bulk of that minority of voters who are still relatively well-disposed towards the Conservative Party. Selective bribery to help shore up their support makes complete sense.

    Indeed, Hunt might as well go all-in, abolish child benefit and use the cash to fund a fresh bung for pensioners as well.
    Rename themselves the Tapeworm Tories while at it.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    Have to say Slash is making me feel a lot better about my weight.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Westie said:

    glw said:

    NYT - The Kremlin spokesman, Dmitri S. Peskov, announced that the criminal case against the Wagner leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin, would be dropped. Prigozhin will go to Belarus, Peskov said, and the fighters who rebelled with him would not be prosecuted by law given their "service at the front." Wagner fighters who did not participate in the mutiny will sign contracts with the Russian Ministry of Defense, he said.

    Prigozhin definitely lost then.
    Depends what his goal really was. Or is. Or will be?

    Was it Boris Johnson (or some cheap-jack pre-quel) who observed, Russia is a riddle wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma?
    He's lost control of Wagner, which is being broken up, and exiled to Belarus, presumably with a dubious promise that he won't be quietly assassinated.

    He didn't need to march on Moscow and kill 13 Russian pilots to achieve that outcome.
    If a private military contractor with thousands of personnel was driving towards DC, threatening to kill the Chairman of the JCS and Defense Secretary, and depose the President, and then it was settled by giving them immunity and exiling their leaders in Mexico, only an actual madman would claim that Biden was strengthened by it. What will happen is hard to say, but clearly Putin is losing control, even if he survives for today.
    Putin has handled this well. I agree though that his end is in sight. He probably won't stand in next year's elections. But if you think he's losing control, who is gaining it? Russia doesn't seem about to break up, much as it would please some if it did,.
    It does get a bit tedious to keep repeating, but the only person who has emerged from today enhanced is the dictator Luka.

    No sign of Putin on TV, and Peskov even said, further than that, that a new address from him wasn't planned. After he'd just called Prigozhin the biggest threat to Russia in decades, a traitor ? The traitor now has immunity, and is heading to Belarus, Lukashenko's domain. How can Putin credibly survive this ? I can't see what narrative one could credibly spin from it.
    "immunity"??

    LOL.

    He's dead as a doornail.
    Or is he, though ?

    Putin doesn't seem to have much infuence at the moment.
    Putin may well have been removed already. Curious that he is not on TV.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    On to other matters.
    Schools, and in particular the Special Intervention Sector, are a shitshow, it has been confirmed.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/jun/24/disruptive-behaviour-leaves-excluded-pupils-units-in-england-full-to-bursting

    This is largely, though not entirely, a consequence of the way in which children were treated during the pandemic. Schools and nurseries ought never to have been shuttered.
    Outdoor playgrounds was the most spiteful closure. Our 2 year old child went crazy if we visited the local park at not being allowed to go the playground, so effectively could not go out the house.
    There was a bit of a competition to see who was taking covid most 'seriously' by suggesting the harshest measures possible. Public polls supported that sort of thing. So even when the risk was lower or the harm higher, blanket restrictions were pushed.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    edited June 2023
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Agreed completely and £325,000 is fine
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    DavidL said:

    Have to say Slash is making me feel a lot better about my weight.

    I hope they've got a defibrillator on standby!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    DougSeal said:

    Cookie said:

    DougSeal said:

    Cookie said:

    Anyone watching Glasto? Couldn't get tickets this year but thought the Arctic Monkeys were decent, shame Lewis Capaldi lost his voice, poor chap

    Mixed feelings about Glastonbury.
    On one hand, £350 for a ticket to hang around in the smuggest place in the country for a line up which is considerably more mainstream than it was in my day (Elton John?).

    On the other hand, now wife and sister-in-law have turned the coverage on, I've genuinely enjoyed it, and would have paid good money to watch Rick Astley and the Blossoms* perform an entire set of Smiths songs.

    *the only band, to my knowledge, named after a pub I have been in.
    I went in 1992 after my A-Levels and got to see Tom Jones. Morrissey pulled out. It was considerably cheaper than £350 even accounting for inflation
    I went in 97 (muddiest Glasto in 20 years) and 98 (wettest Glasto in 20 years). £80, or thereabouts, it was. I don't think I'd risk £350 on another year like those.
    Can’t remember how much it was but I think £50 and I got my ticket from Richard’s Records in Canterbury High Street. And not a drop of rain. In fact IIRC we were asked to converge water. V hot.
    I went in 1987, and it was mostly dry apart from a massive mud pool by the main stage. It was pretty unregulated and alternative then, and we just camped by the car, and scrounged wood from the hedges for a fire. New Oder were the headline act, and Elvis Costello too, who did both an acoustic and an electric set. I had a great time.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    WillG said:

    Westie said:

    glw said:

    NYT - The Kremlin spokesman, Dmitri S. Peskov, announced that the criminal case against the Wagner leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin, would be dropped. Prigozhin will go to Belarus, Peskov said, and the fighters who rebelled with him would not be prosecuted by law given their "service at the front." Wagner fighters who did not participate in the mutiny will sign contracts with the Russian Ministry of Defense, he said.

    Prigozhin definitely lost then.
    Depends what his goal really was. Or is. Or will be?

    Was it Boris Johnson (or some cheap-jack pre-quel) who observed, Russia is a riddle wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma?
    He's lost control of Wagner, which is being broken up, and exiled to Belarus, presumably with a dubious promise that he won't be quietly assassinated.

    He didn't need to march on Moscow and kill 13 Russian pilots to achieve that outcome.
    If a private military contractor with thousands of personnel was driving towards DC, threatening to kill the Chairman of the JCS and Defense Secretary, and depose the President, and then it was settled by giving them immunity and exiling their leaders in Mexico, only an actual madman would claim that Biden was strengthened by it. What will happen is hard to say, but clearly Putin is losing control, even if he survives for today.
    Putin has handled this well. I agree though that his end is in sight. He probably won't stand in next year's elections. But if you think he's losing control, who is gaining it? Russia doesn't seem about to break up, much as it would please some if it did,.
    It does get a bit tedious to keep repeating, but the only person who has emerged from today enhanced is the dictator Luka.

    No sign of Putin on TV, and Peskov even said, further than that, that a new address from him wasn't planned. After he'd just called Prigozhin the biggest threat to Russia in decades, a traitor ? The traitor now has immunity, and is heading to Belarus, Lukashenko's domain. How can Putin credibly survive this ? I can't see what narrative one could credibly spin from it.
    "immunity"??

    LOL.

    He's dead as a doornail.
    Or is he, though ?

    Putin doesn't seem to have much infuence at the moment.
    Putin may well have been removed already. Curious that he is not on TV.
    It's certainly oddly passive. It's like he's too bored to go through the motions.
  • WestieWestie Posts: 426
    WillG said:

    NYT - The Kremlin spokesman, Dmitri S. Peskov, announced that the criminal case against the Wagner leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin, would be dropped. Prigozhin will go to Belarus, Peskov said, and the fighters who rebelled with him would not be prosecuted by law given their "service at the front." Wagner fighters who did not participate in the mutiny will sign contracts with the Russian Ministry of Defense, he said.

    Prigozhin definitely lost then.
    Putin has lost too. The only battle in Ukraine the Russians won was the capture of Bakhmut, achieved by Wagner. The winners in this situation are Zelensky and Ukraine.
    We will have to see how things turn out for the Russian war effort. I doubt Zelensky was a player in this. How necessary were Wagner for the war effort? I don't know, but we will soon find out.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    Wise politically. Aged owner-occupiers and their expectant heirs are your core support, and constitute the bulk of that minority of voters who are still relatively well-disposed towards the Conservative Party. Selective bribery to help shore up their support makes complete sense.

    Indeed, Hunt might as well go all-in, abolish child benefit and use the cash to fund a fresh bung for pensioners as well.
    As a pensioner I do not need any bungs, but my children appreciate all the help they can get for their children

    Child benefit and free schools meals are essential for the nation's youngsters
    Ah, yes, I'd forgotten about free school meals.

    If they get scrapped too it would help balance the books for the abolition of IHT.

    You need to learn to think like a Tory. Since when were children, especially the children of the poor, of importance to them?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,627
    WillG said:

    Westie said:

    glw said:

    NYT - The Kremlin spokesman, Dmitri S. Peskov, announced that the criminal case against the Wagner leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin, would be dropped. Prigozhin will go to Belarus, Peskov said, and the fighters who rebelled with him would not be prosecuted by law given their "service at the front." Wagner fighters who did not participate in the mutiny will sign contracts with the Russian Ministry of Defense, he said.

    Prigozhin definitely lost then.
    Depends what his goal really was. Or is. Or will be?

    Was it Boris Johnson (or some cheap-jack pre-quel) who observed, Russia is a riddle wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma?
    He's lost control of Wagner, which is being broken up, and exiled to Belarus, presumably with a dubious promise that he won't be quietly assassinated.

    He didn't need to march on Moscow and kill 13 Russian pilots to achieve that outcome.
    If a private military contractor with thousands of personnel was driving towards DC, threatening to kill the Chairman of the JCS and Defense Secretary, and depose the President, and then it was settled by giving them immunity and exiling their leaders in Mexico, only an actual madman would claim that Biden was strengthened by it. What will happen is hard to say, but clearly Putin is losing control, even if he survives for today.
    Putin has handled this well. I agree though that his end is in sight. He probably won't stand in next year's elections. But if you think he's losing control, who is gaining it? Russia doesn't seem about to break up, much as it would please some if it did,.
    It does get a bit tedious to keep repeating, but the only person who has emerged from today enhanced is the dictator Luka.

    No sign of Putin on TV, and Peskov even said, further than that, that a new address from him wasn't planned. After he'd just called Prigozhin the biggest threat to Russia in decades, a traitor ? The traitor now has immunity, and is heading to Belarus, Lukashenko's domain. How can Putin credibly survive this ? I can't see what narrative one could credibly spin from it.
    "immunity"??

    LOL.

    He's dead as a doornail.
    Or is he, though ?

    Putin doesn't seem to have much infuence at the moment.
    Putin may well have been removed already. Curious that he is not on TV.
    Yes although he’s often done a disappearing act before when there have been tense situations that could be considered challenges to his authority.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Axel Rose looks like a rocked up Christopher Hitchens!

    Whoever made the comment about his voice wasn’t kidding. Not sure I would have recognised him.
    Yes, a pale shadow imo. Slash still great though.
    He can certainly still play guitar like almost no one else. Brilliant.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    Wise politically. Aged owner-occupiers and their expectant heirs are your core support, and constitute the bulk of that minority of voters who are still relatively well-disposed towards the Conservative Party. Selective bribery to help shore up their support makes complete sense.

    Indeed, Hunt might as well go all-in, abolish child benefit and use the cash to fund a fresh bung for pensioners as well.
    As a pensioner I do not need any bungs, but my children appreciate all the help they can get for their children

    Child benefit and free schools meals are essential for the nation's youngsters
    Ah, yes, I'd forgotten about free school meals.

    If they get scrapped too it would help balance the books for the abolition of IHT.

    You need to learn to think like a Tory. Since when were children, especially the children of the poor, of importance to them?
    They are to me
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Disastrous interview for LD Someton and Frome by election candidate.

    'Asked by the amiable John Harris about deprivation in the area she replied that she had drunk her coffee a bit too fast, before asking:

    What do you want to know? Something that’s a subject I don’t know anything about … I mean there’s pockets of deprivation. I mean, what can we say on that really? … I don’t feel that I’m prepared at all for this, Ami [the Lib Dem press officer]. And it’s all getting a little bit above my station, sorry.'

    The press officer in question suggests getting the candidate a glass of water before the interview is terminated'

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/listen-lib-dem-by-election-candidates-car-crash-interview/
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited June 2023

    WillG said:

    Westie said:

    glw said:

    NYT - The Kremlin spokesman, Dmitri S. Peskov, announced that the criminal case against the Wagner leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin, would be dropped. Prigozhin will go to Belarus, Peskov said, and the fighters who rebelled with him would not be prosecuted by law given their "service at the front." Wagner fighters who did not participate in the mutiny will sign contracts with the Russian Ministry of Defense, he said.

    Prigozhin definitely lost then.
    Depends what his goal really was. Or is. Or will be?

    Was it Boris Johnson (or some cheap-jack pre-quel) who observed, Russia is a riddle wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma?
    He's lost control of Wagner, which is being broken up, and exiled to Belarus, presumably with a dubious promise that he won't be quietly assassinated.

    He didn't need to march on Moscow and kill 13 Russian pilots to achieve that outcome.
    If a private military contractor with thousands of personnel was driving towards DC, threatening to kill the Chairman of the JCS and Defense Secretary, and depose the President, and then it was settled by giving them immunity and exiling their leaders in Mexico, only an actual madman would claim that Biden was strengthened by it. What will happen is hard to say, but clearly Putin is losing control, even if he survives for today.
    Putin has handled this well. I agree though that his end is in sight. He probably won't stand in next year's elections. But if you think he's losing control, who is gaining it? Russia doesn't seem about to break up, much as it would please some if it did,.
    It does get a bit tedious to keep repeating, but the only person who has emerged from today enhanced is the dictator Luka.

    No sign of Putin on TV, and Peskov even said, further than that, that a new address from him wasn't planned. After he'd just called Prigozhin the biggest threat to Russia in decades, a traitor ? The traitor now has immunity, and is heading to Belarus, Lukashenko's domain. How can Putin credibly survive this ? I can't see what narrative one could credibly spin from it.
    "immunity"??

    LOL.

    He's dead as a doornail.
    Or is he, though ?

    Putin doesn't seem to have much infuence at the moment.
    Putin may well have been removed already. Curious that he is not on TV.
    Yes although he’s often done a disappearing act before when there have been tense situations that could be considered challenges to his authority.
    This is true, he did disappear for a while, at the start of the crisis last year.

    However, he looked genuinely panicked in that last video, unlike usual, so it would then obviously also be an urgent priority to reassert authority and control . Instead, quite the opposite ; Peskov explicitly said a new broadcast from him isn't planned.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    HYUFD said:

    Disastrous interview for LD Someton and Frome by election candidate.

    'Asked by the amiable John Harris about deprivation in the area she replied that she had drunk her coffee a bit too fast, before asking:

    What do you want to know? Something that’s a subject I don’t know anything about … I mean there’s pockets of deprivation. I mean, what can we say on that really? … I don’t feel that I’m prepared at all for this, Ami [the Lib Dem press officer]. And it’s all getting a little bit above my station, sorry.'

    The press officer in question suggests getting the candidate a glass of water before the interview is terminated'

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/listen-lib-dem-by-election-candidates-car-crash-interview/

    She will still win

    That is how bad it is for the conservatives
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,627
    Doyen of the German foreign policy establishment says that Russia must not collapse.

    https://twitter.com/ischinger/status/1672626661542510598
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Meanwhile, more on the context of the shiny new Liberal Democrat policy of using renters' taxes to bail out struggling homeowners:

    The Lib Dems are already analysing how they can take advantage of mortgage increases in so-called blue wall seats held by the Tories largely in the home counties. It has already identified 29 seats in the blue wall where the number of households with a mortgage outweighs the current majority of the sitting Conservative MP. The most vulnerable seat is Carshalton and Wallington, where it would require just 4% of households with a mortgage to switch their vote for the Conservatives to lose. This is followed by Wimbledon, Cheltenham and Winchester.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jun/24/mortgage-rise-impact-will-dwarf-energy-bills-crisis-for-uk-homeowners
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    kyf_100 said:

    Westie said:

    glw said:

    NYT - The Kremlin spokesman, Dmitri S. Peskov, announced that the criminal case against the Wagner leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin, would be dropped. Prigozhin will go to Belarus, Peskov said, and the fighters who rebelled with him would not be prosecuted by law given their "service at the front." Wagner fighters who did not participate in the mutiny will sign contracts with the Russian Ministry of Defense, he said.

    Prigozhin definitely lost then.
    Depends what his goal really was. Or is. Or will be?

    Was it Boris Johnson (or some cheap-jack pre-quel) who observed, Russia is a riddle wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma?
    He's lost control of Wagner, which is being broken up, and exiled to Belarus, presumably with a dubious promise that he won't be quietly assassinated.

    He didn't need to march on Moscow and kill 13 Russian pilots to achieve that outcome.
    If a private military contractor with thousands of personnel was driving towards DC, threatening to kill the Chairman of the JCS and Defense Secretary, and depose the President, and then it was settled by giving them immunity and exiling their leaders in Mexico, only an actual madman would claim that Biden was strengthened by it. What will happen is hard to say, but clearly Putin is losing control, even if he survives for today.
    Putin has handled this well. I agree though that his end is in sight. He probably won't stand in next year's elections. But if you think he's losing control, who is gaining it? Russia doesn't seem about to break up, much as it would please some if it did,.
    It does get a bit tedious to keep repeating, but the only person who has emerged from today enhanced is old dictator Luka.

    No sign of Putin on TV, and Peskov even said, further than that, that a new address from him wasn't planned. After he'd just called Prigozhin the biggest threat to Russia in decades, a traitor ? The traitor now has immunity, and is heading to Belarus, Lukashenko's domain. How can Putin credibly survive this ? I can't see what narrative one could credibly spin from it.
    A wild theory (since it's fun to speculate).

    Putin isn't in charge any more. While the regular army weren't willing to fire on Prigozhin, they weren't willing to support him, either. Some of Putin's inner circle made it clear to him his time was up, got word to Prigozhin that Putin was finished, but he wouldn't be able to take Moscow either. So they cut him a deal. Off Prigozhin goes to Belarus, with Putin either allowed to announce his retirement in due course, or simply remain the front man for whoever is really pulling the strings.
    An alternative Putinist spin would be that Prigozhin has opted to go into exile under the benign care of that fine fellow Lukashenko, while the leaderless Wagner troops either agree to join the army or give up.

    Who knows? It's all very strange. Nor is there much sign of Ukraine taking advantage, though they still might - perhaps the Soviet-era doctrine of never launching an offensive without weeks of preparation is still in force on both sides?
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,639
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Anyone watching Glasto? Couldn't get tickets this year but thought the Arctic Monkeys were decent, shame Lewis Capaldi lost his voice, poor chap

    Mixed feelings about Glastonbury.
    On one hand, £350 for a ticket to hang around in the smuggest place in the country for a line up which is considerably more mainstream than it was in my day (Elton John?).

    On the other hand, now wife and sister-in-law have turned the coverage on, I've genuinely enjoyed it, and would have paid good money to watch Rick Astley and the Blossoms* perform an entire set of Smiths songs.

    *the only band, to my knowledge, named after a pub I have been in.
    I jumped the fence in 2000 - the last year you could do it - and spent five days totally off my rocker. Some bloke near where we were camped was punting banging pills.

    I’d love to go back. Minus the class A’s, far too undignified at my age. It’s so much more than the headliners and main stages. There’s absolutely loads of stuff going on away from what gets shown on TV. I didn’t see any of the headliners, it was always too busy around the main stages. Thanks to scrotes like me jumping the fence.

    Though I did miss Bowie, to my shame.

    I should pull my finger out of my arse and go back, but I just cannot bothered with the whole ticket lottery thing.

    Looking forward to Gn’R tonight mind. Loved them when I was 13/14. Axl’s voice isn’t the fearsome beast it once was though, sadly. Thought the Monkeys were a bit meh. Lightning Seeds are on iplayer they were good. Been listening to it on 6 all day they’ve been playing good stuff - Young Fathers, The Comet is Coming, stuff like that.

    My missus is currently loving Texas in the iplayer. She once shared a lipstick with Sharlene Spiteri in the women’s toilets backstage when they supported Beautiful South - true story.
    I truly wish I'd gone at least once. Too old now. 62.
    Nah mate never too old. Get yourself off.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    edited June 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    No that’s not true. I am a long way from being a far left socialist (although I like the occasional whinge) and I think capital is not taxed nearly enough and income, specifically earned income, far too much. We need to address this balance and cutting IHT is a step in the wrong direction.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    Disastrous interview for LD Someton and Frome by election candidate.

    'Asked by the amiable John Harris about deprivation in the area she replied that she had drunk her coffee a bit too fast, before asking:

    What do you want to know? Something that’s a subject I don’t know anything about … I mean there’s pockets of deprivation. I mean, what can we say on that really? … I don’t feel that I’m prepared at all for this, Ami [the Lib Dem press officer]. And it’s all getting a little bit above my station, sorry.'

    The press officer in question suggests getting the candidate a glass of water before the interview is terminated'

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/listen-lib-dem-by-election-candidates-car-crash-interview/

    She will still win

    That is how bad it is for the conservatives
    Somerton and Frome was LD from 1997 to 2015.

    However not sure the LD candidate is even ready to stand for Somerton Town Council yet on that interview, let alone Parliament
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    As you have far cheaper house prices and don't need inheritances as much (though those with detached properties or significant savings in the North and Wales would also benefit from an increase in the IHT to £1 million)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,627
    The images of people cheering on the streets of Russia for the Wagner group suggests an appetite for regime change.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,715

    Westie said:

    glw said:

    NYT - The Kremlin spokesman, Dmitri S. Peskov, announced that the criminal case against the Wagner leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin, would be dropped. Prigozhin will go to Belarus, Peskov said, and the fighters who rebelled with him would not be prosecuted by law given their "service at the front." Wagner fighters who did not participate in the mutiny will sign contracts with the Russian Ministry of Defense, he said.

    Prigozhin definitely lost then.
    Depends what his goal really was. Or is. Or will be?

    Was it Boris Johnson (or some cheap-jack pre-quel) who observed, Russia is a riddle wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma?
    He's lost control of Wagner, which is being broken up, and exiled to Belarus, presumably with a dubious promise that he won't be quietly assassinated.

    He didn't need to march on Moscow and kill 13 Russian pilots to achieve that outcome.
    If a private military contractor with thousands of personnel was driving towards DC, threatening to kill the Chairman of the JCS and Defense Secretary, and depose the President, and then it was settled by giving them immunity and exiling their leaders in Mexico, only an actual madman would claim that Biden was strengthened by it. What will happen is hard to say, but clearly Putin is losing control, even if he survives for today.
    Putin has handled this well. I agree though that his end is in sight. He probably won't stand in next year's elections. But if you think he's losing control, who is gaining it? Russia doesn't seem about to break up, much as it would please some if it did,.
    It does get a bit tedious to keep repeating, but the only person who has emerged from today enhanced is the dictator Luka.

    No sign of Putin on TV, and Peskov even said, further than that, that a new address from him wasn't planned. After he'd just called Prigozhin the biggest threat to Russia in decades, a traitor ? The traitor now has immunity, and is heading to Belarus, Lukashenko's domain. How can Putin credibly survive this ? I can't see what narrative one could credibly spin from it.
    "immunity"??

    LOL.

    He's dead as a doornail.
    Or is he, though ?

    Putin doesn't seem to have much infuence at the moment.
    We'll see in next couple of months or so. Definitely staying on the ground floor.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, more on the context of the shiny new Liberal Democrat policy of using renters' taxes to bail out struggling homeowners:

    The Lib Dems are already analysing how they can take advantage of mortgage increases in so-called blue wall seats held by the Tories largely in the home counties. It has already identified 29 seats in the blue wall where the number of households with a mortgage outweighs the current majority of the sitting Conservative MP. The most vulnerable seat is Carshalton and Wallington, where it would require just 4% of households with a mortgage to switch their vote for the Conservatives to lose. This is followed by Wimbledon, Cheltenham and Winchester.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jun/24/mortgage-rise-impact-will-dwarf-energy-bills-crisis-for-uk-homeowners

    Needless to say, renters pay a lot less tax than mortgage-holders, so this is mainly reshuffling the burden from some people with property to other people with property. And the overall effect of would be to push properties away from rental and toward owners. But the societies that have such reliefs also tend to have household debt coming out of their ears, leaving them in need of the bailout indefinitely.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    No that’s not true. I am a long way from being a far left socialist (although I like the occasional whinge) and I think capital is not taxed nearly enough and income, specifically earned income, far too much. We need to address this balance and cutting IHT is a step in the wrong direction.
    If you want to tax wealth and capital far more and income less then you are a Liberal ideogically not a Conservative Tory really even if still not a Socialist (who would want to tax capital and income more to fund an expansion of the welfare state and public sector)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    As you have far cheaper house prices and don't need inheritances as much (though those with detached properties or significant savings in the North and Wales would also benefit from an increase in the IHT to £1 million)
    You cannot make any case in this climate for increasing IHT allowances, and especially those with million pound plus homes

  • WestieWestie Posts: 426
    kyf_100 said:

    Westie said:

    glw said:

    NYT - The Kremlin spokesman, Dmitri S. Peskov, announced that the criminal case against the Wagner leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin, would be dropped. Prigozhin will go to Belarus, Peskov said, and the fighters who rebelled with him would not be prosecuted by law given their "service at the front." Wagner fighters who did not participate in the mutiny will sign contracts with the Russian Ministry of Defense, he said.

    Prigozhin definitely lost then.
    Depends what his goal really was. Or is. Or will be?

    Was it Boris Johnson (or some cheap-jack pre-quel) who observed, Russia is a riddle wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma?
    He's lost control of Wagner, which is being broken up, and exiled to Belarus, presumably with a dubious promise that he won't be quietly assassinated.

    He didn't need to march on Moscow and kill 13 Russian pilots to achieve that outcome.
    If a private military contractor with thousands of personnel was driving towards DC, threatening to kill the Chairman of the JCS and Defense Secretary, and depose the President, and then it was settled by giving them immunity and exiling their leaders in Mexico, only an actual madman would claim that Biden was strengthened by it. What will happen is hard to say, but clearly Putin is losing control, even if he survives for today.
    Putin has handled this well. I agree though that his end is in sight. He probably won't stand in next year's elections. But if you think he's losing control, who is gaining it? Russia doesn't seem about to break up, much as it would please some if it did,.
    It does get a bit tedious to keep repeating, but the only person who has emerged from today enhanced is old dictator Luka.

    No sign of Putin on TV, and Peskov even said, further than that, that a new address from him wasn't planned. After he'd just called Prigozhin the biggest threat to Russia in decades, a traitor ? The traitor now has immunity, and is heading to Belarus, Lukashenko's domain. How can Putin credibly survive this ? I can't see what narrative one could credibly spin from it.
    A wild theory (since it's fun to speculate).

    Putin isn't in charge any more. While the regular army weren't willing to fire on Prigozhin, they weren't willing to support him, either. Some of Putin's inner circle made it clear to him his time was up, got word to Prigozhin that Putin was finished, but he wouldn't be able to take Moscow either. So they cut him a deal. Off Prigozhin goes to Belarus, with Putin either allowed to announce his retirement in due course, or simply remain the front man for whoever is really pulling the strings.
    I'd love to consider your hypothesis but really you could some more work on naming names. Shoygu? Bortnikov?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    No that’s not true. I am a long way from being a far left socialist (although I like the occasional whinge) and I think capital is not taxed nearly enough and income, specifically earned income, far too much. We need to address this balance and cutting IHT is a step in the wrong direction.
    If you want to tax wealth and capital far more and income less then you are a Liberal ideogically not a Conservative Tory really even if still not a Socialist (who would want to tax capital and income more to fund an expansion of the welfare state and public sector)
    Or maybe a one nation conservative which you clearly are not
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,715

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    To add to this debate:

    Agricultural land is being priced out of the reach of actual farmers by the rich using a loophole to pass on wealth to kids via land that is IHT exempt.

  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'
    The problem with special tax cuts for favoured well-off voters is that the money that is no longer being raised in that fashion has to be found somewhere else. This is almost certain to be drained from the pockets of poorer people, either by raising their taxes to compensate or by reducing their services in an austerity drive (because the current Government is not going to do it by, for example, means testing the triple lock or raising capital gains tax, now are they?) Nor can they get around the problem through the magic of economic growth - so that tax cuts for heirs can be funded out of rises in existing receipts - because the Government is no longer capable of delivering growth.

    In a stagnant economy, awarding a larger slice of the pie to your favoured, older, better-off voters means a smaller slice for other people that you neither like nor care for. It's as simple as that.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    To add to this debate:

    Agricultural land is being priced out of the reach of actual farmers by the rich using a loophole to pass on wealth to kids via land that is IHT exempt.

    Needs addressing
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    To add to this debate:

    Agricultural land is being priced out of the reach of actual farmers by the rich using a loophole to pass on wealth to kids via land that is IHT exempt.

    The farmers would have have to have sold the land anyway
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    No that’s not true. I am a long way from being a far left socialist (although I like the occasional whinge) and I think capital is not taxed nearly enough and income, specifically earned income, far too much. We need to address this balance and cutting IHT is a step in the wrong direction.
    If you want to tax wealth and capital far more and income less then you are a Liberal ideogically not a Conservative Tory really even if still not a Socialist (who would want to tax capital and income more to fund an expansion of the welfare state and public sector)
    Or maybe a one nation conservative which you clearly are not
    Your a one nation social democrat it seems
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited June 2023
    Re; a post below, I would come back to the fact that Putin has made a public stand against Wagner, saying they are traitors, which is also a lot to stake.

    How do you come back from that if Lukashenko has just stepped in, and signed a deal potentially also including immunity for Prigozhin ? It's just not tenable. Where is his authority ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    As you have far cheaper house prices and don't need inheritances as much (though those with detached properties or significant savings in the North and Wales would also benefit from an increase in the IHT to £1 million)
    You cannot make any case in this climate for increasing IHT allowances, and especially those with million pound plus homes

    Yes you can, the median property price in London and the Home Counties is over the £325k IHT threshold and the median detached property UK wide is also over £325k
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    No that’s not true. I am a long way from being a far left socialist (although I like the occasional whinge) and I think capital is not taxed nearly enough and income, specifically earned income, far too much. We need to address this balance and cutting IHT is a step in the wrong direction.
    If you want to tax wealth and capital far more and income less then you are a Liberal ideogically not a Conservative Tory really even if still not a Socialist (who would want to tax capital and income more to fund an expansion of the welfare state and public sector)
    But, but I don’t wear sandals, even in this heat.

    Sometimes @HYUFD , you should think about the size of tent you want your party to pitch. Right now it’s looking smaller than most of those at Glasto.
    He's in his comfort zone, a kind of right-wing Corbynism. And the thing is, bungs for the rich old has worked a treat up til now.

    If and when the Conservatives are finally chucked out of power, they're going to need to go away and do some serious thinking about how they replace that tiny little two-man tent with a nice big yurt. Although they might choose to sulk for a decade before they stop hating most of the country that they wish to govern. That's what happened last time, after all.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    The events in Russia today seem so weird to me that they inspired this weird thought: Was Yevgeny Prigozhin leading what might be loosely called an "industrial action"? (Very loosely, but this did happen in Russia.)

    If so, was that his plan all along, or did he decide on it as a back up, when not enough Russians rallied to him?

    (I am assuming he had a plan, and a back-up plan, but that, at least, seems reasonable. He's an evil man, but not, so far as I can tell, not a stupid man.)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    As you have far cheaper house prices and don't need inheritances as much (though those with detached properties or significant savings in the North and Wales would also benefit from an increase in the IHT to £1 million)
    You cannot make any case in this climate for increasing IHT allowances, and especially those with million pound plus homes

    Yes you can, the median property price in London and the Home Counties is over the £325k IHT threshold and the median detached property UK wide is also over £325k
    Fine then, they pay the tax
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2023
    Fury of Churchill family as St Paul's cathedral forced to remove reference to him as a white supremacist and imperialist

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12230369/Anger-Winston-Churchills-family-St-Pauls-Cathedral-lambasts-white-supremacist.html
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817

    Re; a post below, I would come back to the fact that Putin has made a public stand against Wagner, saying they are traitors.

    How do you come back from that if Lukashenko has just stepped in, and signed a deal potentially also including immunity for Prigozhin ? It's just not tenable. Where is his authority ?

    Yes, I agree. I think his time left is measured in days not months. He may have lost effective power already.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    The events in Russia today seem so weird to me that they inspired this weird thought: Was Yevgeny Prigozhin leading what might be loosely called an "industrial action"? (Very loosely, but this did happen in Russia.)

    If so, was that his plan all along, or did he decide on it as a back up, when not enough Russians rallied to him?

    (I am assuming he had a plan, and a back-up plan, but that, at least, seems reasonable. He's an evil man, but not, so far as I can tell, not a stupid man.)

    I think it's possible that his plan all along was to escape the frontline and sod the men he was marching to Moscow.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    As you have far cheaper house prices and don't need inheritances as much (though those with detached properties or significant savings in the North and Wales would also benefit from an increase in the IHT to £1 million)
    Nobody should aspire to inherit anything. You should live by your own means if you can.


    In any case, IHT is already £1m even on the death of both parents as any unused allowance is carried over.

    So it is actually £325k x 2 + £350k for the main home = £1m.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2023

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    As you have far cheaper house prices and don't need inheritances as much (though those with detached properties or significant savings in the North and Wales would also benefit from an increase in the IHT to £1 million)
    Nobody should aspire to inherit anything. You should live by your own means if you can.


    In any case, IHT is already £1m even on the death of both parents as any unused allowance is carried over.

    So it is actually £325k x 2 + £350k for the main home = £1m.
    Why shouldn't they?

    I am a conservative Tory and believe in inherited wealth and the family.

    If I supported wealth created by individual income alone I would be a Liberal not a Tory.

    IHT is still applied over £325k to assets beyond the main property and never married or separated deceased
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,941
    Westie said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Westie said:

    glw said:

    NYT - The Kremlin spokesman, Dmitri S. Peskov, announced that the criminal case against the Wagner leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin, would be dropped. Prigozhin will go to Belarus, Peskov said, and the fighters who rebelled with him would not be prosecuted by law given their "service at the front." Wagner fighters who did not participate in the mutiny will sign contracts with the Russian Ministry of Defense, he said.

    Prigozhin definitely lost then.
    Depends what his goal really was. Or is. Or will be?

    Was it Boris Johnson (or some cheap-jack pre-quel) who observed, Russia is a riddle wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma?
    He's lost control of Wagner, which is being broken up, and exiled to Belarus, presumably with a dubious promise that he won't be quietly assassinated.

    He didn't need to march on Moscow and kill 13 Russian pilots to achieve that outcome.
    If a private military contractor with thousands of personnel was driving towards DC, threatening to kill the Chairman of the JCS and Defense Secretary, and depose the President, and then it was settled by giving them immunity and exiling their leaders in Mexico, only an actual madman would claim that Biden was strengthened by it. What will happen is hard to say, but clearly Putin is losing control, even if he survives for today.
    Putin has handled this well. I agree though that his end is in sight. He probably won't stand in next year's elections. But if you think he's losing control, who is gaining it? Russia doesn't seem about to break up, much as it would please some if it did,.
    It does get a bit tedious to keep repeating, but the only person who has emerged from today enhanced is old dictator Luka.

    No sign of Putin on TV, and Peskov even said, further than that, that a new address from him wasn't planned. After he'd just called Prigozhin the biggest threat to Russia in decades, a traitor ? The traitor now has immunity, and is heading to Belarus, Lukashenko's domain. How can Putin credibly survive this ? I can't see what narrative one could credibly spin from it.
    A wild theory (since it's fun to speculate).

    Putin isn't in charge any more. While the regular army weren't willing to fire on Prigozhin, they weren't willing to support him, either. Some of Putin's inner circle made it clear to him his time was up, got word to Prigozhin that Putin was finished, but he wouldn't be able to take Moscow either. So they cut him a deal. Off Prigozhin goes to Belarus, with Putin either allowed to announce his retirement in due course, or simply remain the front man for whoever is really pulling the strings.
    I'd love to consider your hypothesis but really you could some more work on naming names. Shoygu? Bortnikov?
    Bortnikov or Patrushev would spring to mind. It would have to be someone with a lot of power behind the scenes, someone capable of controlling the apparatus of the state. Someone who could say, look, you could invade Moscow, maybe even beat the conventional forces there, but you'd still be dead inside a week...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    As you have far cheaper house prices and don't need inheritances as much (though those with detached properties or significant savings in the North and Wales would also benefit from an increase in the IHT to £1 million)
    Nobody should aspire to inherit anything. You should live by your own means if you can.


    In any case, IHT is already £1m even on the death of both parents as any unused allowance is carried over.

    So it is actually £325k x 2 + £350k for the main home = £1m.
    An aside another anomoly is the absurd cut off point for council tax benefitting the wealthy considerably
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    As you have far cheaper house prices and don't need inheritances as much (though those with detached properties or significant savings in the North and Wales would also benefit from an increase in the IHT to £1 million)
    Nobody should aspire to inherit anything. You should live by your own means if you can.


    In any case, IHT is already £1m even on the death of both parents as any unused allowance is carried over.

    So it is actually £325k x 2 + £350k for the main home = £1m.
    Why shouldn't they?

    I am a conservative Tory and believe in inherited wealth and the family.

    If I believed in pure individualism and wealth created by individual earnings alone I would be a Liberal not a Tory
    'Conservative Tory' is a tautology!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    HYUFD said:

    Fury of Churchill family as St Paul's cathedral forced to remove reference to him as a white supremacist and imperialist

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12230369/Anger-Winston-Churchills-family-St-Pauls-Cathedral-lambasts-white-supremacist.html

    Well, he was!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    pigeon said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    No that’s not true. I am a long way from being a far left socialist (although I like the occasional whinge) and I think capital is not taxed nearly enough and income, specifically earned income, far too much. We need to address this balance and cutting IHT is a step in the wrong direction.
    If you want to tax wealth and capital far more and income less then you are a Liberal ideogically not a Conservative Tory really even if still not a Socialist (who would want to tax capital and income more to fund an expansion of the welfare state and public sector)
    But, but I don’t wear sandals, even in this heat.

    Sometimes @HYUFD , you should think about the size of tent you want your party to pitch. Right now it’s looking smaller than most of those at Glasto.
    He's in his comfort zone, a kind of right-wing Corbynism. And the thing is, bungs for the rich old has worked a treat up til now.

    If and when the Conservatives are finally chucked out of power, they're going to need to go away and do some serious thinking about how they replace that tiny little two-man tent with a nice big yurt. Although they might choose to sulk for a decade before they stop hating most of the country that they wish to govern. That's what happened last time, after all.
    If Sunak and Hunt lose for most Tories it will be because they were too wet and they will want some proper rightwing red meat in opposition.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Anyone watching Glasto? Couldn't get tickets this year but thought the Arctic Monkeys were decent, shame Lewis Capaldi lost his voice, poor chap

    Mixed feelings about Glastonbury.
    On one hand, £350 for a ticket to hang around in the smuggest place in the country for a line up which is considerably more mainstream than it was in my day (Elton John?).

    On the other hand, now wife and sister-in-law have turned the coverage on, I've genuinely enjoyed it, and would have paid good money to watch Rick Astley and the Blossoms* perform an entire set of Smiths songs.

    *the only band, to my knowledge, named after a pub I have been in.
    I jumped the fence in 2000 - the last year you could do it - and spent five days totally off my rocker. Some bloke near where we were camped was punting banging pills.

    I’d love to go back. Minus the class A’s, far too undignified at my age. It’s so much more than the headliners and main stages. There’s absolutely loads of stuff going on away from what gets shown on TV. I didn’t see any of the headliners, it was always too busy around the main stages. Thanks to scrotes like me jumping the fence.

    Though I did miss Bowie, to my shame.

    I should pull my finger out of my arse and go back, but I just cannot bothered with the whole ticket lottery thing.

    Looking forward to Gn’R tonight mind. Loved them when I was 13/14. Axl’s voice isn’t the fearsome beast it once was though, sadly. Thought the Monkeys were a bit meh. Lightning Seeds are on iplayer they were good. Been listening to it on 6 all day they’ve been playing good stuff - Young Fathers, The Comet is Coming, stuff like that.

    My missus is currently loving Texas in the iplayer. She once shared a lipstick with Sharlene Spiteri in the women’s toilets backstage when they supported Beautiful South - true story.
    I truly wish I'd gone at least once. Too old now. 62.
    You never went to Glasto…. Ever???

    Cmon man. Shape up. And you’re not too old. 62 is is nothing. 80 year olds go ffs

    Just go for one night and book luxe hotels either side. You can afford it. Do it
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    As you have far cheaper house prices and don't need inheritances as much (though those with detached properties or significant savings in the North and Wales would also benefit from an increase in the IHT to £1 million)
    Nobody should aspire to inherit anything. You should live by your own means if you can.


    In any case, IHT is already £1m even on the death of both parents as any unused allowance is carried over.

    So it is actually £325k x 2 + £350k for the main home = £1m.
    Why shouldn't they?

    I am a Tory and believe in inherited wealth and the family.

    If I believed in pure individualism and wealth created by individual earnings alone I would be a Liberal not a Tory
    Well, I don't know about you, but I'd feel pretty guilty living off someone else's money if I was capable of looking after myself.

    The kind of people that don't end up gluing themselves to roads out of boredom.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    No that’s not true. I am a long way from being a far left socialist (although I like the occasional whinge) and I think capital is not taxed nearly enough and income, specifically earned income, far too much. We need to address this balance and cutting IHT is a step in the wrong direction.
    If you want to tax wealth and capital far more and income less then you are a Liberal ideogically not a Conservative Tory really even if still not a Socialist (who would want to tax capital and income more to fund an expansion of the welfare state and public sector)
    But, but I don’t wear sandals, even in this heat.

    Sometimes @HYUFD , you should think about the size of tent you want your party to pitch. Right now it’s looking smaller than most of those at Glasto.
    You are an Orange Book LD not a Tory.

    63% want to raise the IHT threshold. 48% even want to scrap IHT completely, far higher than the current Tory poll rating

    https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/our-news/press-releases/yougov-poll-shows-majority-support-raising-iht-threshold-above-325k-despite-eyewatering-public-finance-decisions-ahead
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377
    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    No that’s not true. I am a long way from being a far left socialist (although I like the occasional whinge) and I think capital is not taxed nearly enough and income, specifically earned income, far too much. We need to address this balance and cutting IHT is a step in the wrong direction.
    If you want to tax wealth and capital far more and income less then you are a Liberal ideogically not a Conservative Tory really even if still not a Socialist (who would want to tax capital and income more to fund an expansion of the welfare state and public sector)
    But, but I don’t wear sandals, even in this heat.

    Sometimes @HYUFD , you should think about the size of tent you want your party to pitch. Right now it’s looking smaller than most of those at Glasto.
    He's in his comfort zone, a kind of right-wing Corbynism. And the thing is, bungs for the rich old has worked a treat up til now.

    If and when the Conservatives are finally chucked out of power, they're going to need to go away and do some serious thinking about how they replace that tiny little two-man tent with a nice big yurt. Although they might choose to sulk for a decade before they stop hating most of the country that they wish to govern. That's what happened last time, after all.
    If Sunak and Hunt lose for most Tories it will be because they were too wet and they will want some proper rightwing red meat in opposition.
    Prigozhin may be available if you're looking for a new leader.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,785
    =

    The images of people cheering on the streets of Russia for the Wagner group suggests an appetite for regime change.

    Or knowing the correct flag waving for whoever is passing at the time. Clever folk.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    Civil War now by G'n'R. Possibly their best track tonight so far. Just so on point with the events of the day.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    As you have far cheaper house prices and don't need inheritances as much (though those with detached properties or significant savings in the North and Wales would also benefit from an increase in the IHT to £1 million)
    Nobody should aspire to inherit anything. You should live by your own means if you can.


    In any case, IHT is already £1m even on the death of both parents as any unused allowance is carried over.

    So it is actually £325k x 2 + £350k for the main home = £1m.
    Why shouldn't they?

    I am a Tory and believe in inherited wealth and the family.

    If I believed in pure individualism and wealth created by individual earnings alone I would be a Liberal not a Tory
    Well, I don't know about you, but I'd feel pretty guilty living off someone else's money if I was capable of looking after myself.

    The kind of people that don't end up gluing themselves to roads out of boredom.
    You can't live off an inheritance comfortably if it is less than £1 million, only if you inherit say £4 million+.

    Those super rich estates would still pay IHT if the threshold was £1 million
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Anyone watching Glasto? Couldn't get tickets this year but thought the Arctic Monkeys were decent, shame Lewis Capaldi lost his voice, poor chap

    Mixed feelings about Glastonbury.
    On one hand, £350 for a ticket to hang around in the smuggest place in the country for a line up which is considerably more mainstream than it was in my day (Elton John?).

    On the other hand, now wife and sister-in-law have turned the coverage on, I've genuinely enjoyed it, and would have paid good money to watch Rick Astley and the Blossoms* perform an entire set of Smiths songs.

    *the only band, to my knowledge, named after a pub I have been in.
    I jumped the fence in 2000 - the last year you could do it - and spent five days totally off my rocker. Some bloke near where we were camped was punting banging pills.

    I’d love to go back. Minus the class A’s, far too undignified at my age. It’s so much more than the headliners and main stages. There’s absolutely loads of stuff going on away from what gets shown on TV. I didn’t see any of the headliners, it was always too busy around the main stages. Thanks to scrotes like me jumping the fence.

    Though I did miss Bowie, to my shame.

    I should pull my finger out of my arse and go back, but I just cannot bothered with the whole ticket lottery thing.

    Looking forward to Gn’R tonight mind. Loved them when I was 13/14. Axl’s voice isn’t the fearsome beast it once was though, sadly. Thought the Monkeys were a bit meh. Lightning Seeds are on iplayer they were good. Been listening to it on 6 all day they’ve been playing good stuff - Young Fathers, The Comet is Coming, stuff like that.

    My missus is currently loving Texas in the iplayer. She once shared a lipstick with Sharlene Spiteri in the women’s toilets backstage when they supported Beautiful South - true story.
    I truly wish I'd gone at least once. Too old now. 62.
    Nah mate never too old. Get yourself off.
    The ambiguity around the phrase "get yourself off" provided a brief moment of entertainment there... :)
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    edited June 2023
    Forget the politics but just to clarify as it will affect some people and most people don't seem to understand it:

    It doesn't matter when the first parent died. As long as first parent didn't use any IHT (or CTT) allowance then you still get double allowance on death of second parent. And that's double the £325k basic allowance and double the £175k residence allowance - ie £1m.

    Many people do not understand this - and so don't claim it.

    And you match the residence to the residence allowance first - so if you have a home worth £350k and cash of £650k then IHT bill is zero.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,785
    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    Cookie said:

    DougSeal said:

    Cookie said:

    Anyone watching Glasto? Couldn't get tickets this year but thought the Arctic Monkeys were decent, shame Lewis Capaldi lost his voice, poor chap

    Mixed feelings about Glastonbury.
    On one hand, £350 for a ticket to hang around in the smuggest place in the country for a line up which is considerably more mainstream than it was in my day (Elton John?).

    On the other hand, now wife and sister-in-law have turned the coverage on, I've genuinely enjoyed it, and would have paid good money to watch Rick Astley and the Blossoms* perform an entire set of Smiths songs.

    *the only band, to my knowledge, named after a pub I have been in.
    I went in 1992 after my A-Levels and got to see Tom Jones. Morrissey pulled out. It was considerably cheaper than £350 even accounting for inflation
    I went in 97 (muddiest Glasto in 20 years) and 98 (wettest Glasto in 20 years). £80, or thereabouts, it was. I don't think I'd risk £350 on another year like those.
    Can’t remember how much it was but I think £50 and I got my ticket from Richard’s Records in Canterbury High Street. And not a drop of rain. In fact IIRC we were asked to converge water. V hot.
    I went in 1987, and it was mostly dry apart from a massive mud pool by the main stage. It was pretty unregulated and alternative then, and we just camped by the car, and scrounged wood from the hedges for a fire. New Oder were the headline act, and Elvis Costello too, who did both an acoustic and an electric set. I had a great time.
    I was a fence-dodger in the 90s. The Orb were playing and... that's about all I remember. Apart from a Krishna person saying they were worried about how much time my friend was spending in the Krishna tent.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,036
    edited June 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Fury of Churchill family as St Paul's cathedral forced to remove reference to him as a white supremacist and imperialist

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12230369/Anger-Winston-Churchills-family-St-Pauls-Cathedral-lambasts-white-supremacist.html

    I think Churchill is perhaps the greatest man these islands have ever produced, but he was undoubtedly an unashamed imperialist and white supremacist.

    A rather ineffective one, given that his time in office coincided with the fatal weakening of the British Empire and waves of mass non-white immigration.

    Given his time and background, anything else would have been astonishing, and it says more about our attitudes than him that we think there has to be a contradiction there.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    No that’s not true. I am a long way from being a far left socialist (although I like the occasional whinge) and I think capital is not taxed nearly enough and income, specifically earned income, far too much. We need to address this balance and cutting IHT is a step in the wrong direction.
    If you want to tax wealth and capital far more and income less then you are a Liberal ideogically not a Conservative Tory really even if still not a Socialist (who would want to tax capital and income more to fund an expansion of the welfare state and public sector)
    But, but I don’t wear sandals, even in this heat.

    Sometimes @HYUFD , you should think about the size of tent you want your party to pitch. Right now it’s looking smaller than most of those at Glasto.
    You are an Orange Book LD not a Tory.

    63% want to raise the IHT threshold. 48% even want to scrap IHT completely, far higher than the current Tory poll rating

    https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/our-news/press-releases/yougov-poll-shows-majority-support-raising-iht-threshold-above-325k-despite-eyewatering-public-finance-decisions-ahead
    I think we need to tax inheritance properly to help out with the national debt. So no more transfer of the IHT tax free threshold to the surviving partner's estate. No more £1m threshold for those with children

    Get rid of all the exemptions like 'gifts out of income'

    To be clear I support IHT free transfers between the widowed spouse/civil partnership relationship etc but beyond the inheritors need to pay.

    And let's make it 50% on anything over £200,000

    👍👍👍
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    No that’s not true. I am a long way from being a far left socialist (although I like the occasional whinge) and I think capital is not taxed nearly enough and income, specifically earned income, far too much. We need to address this balance and cutting IHT is a step in the wrong direction.
    If you want to tax wealth and capital far more and income less then you are a Liberal ideogically not a Conservative Tory really even if still not a Socialist (who would want to tax capital and income more to fund an expansion of the welfare state and public sector)
    But, but I don’t wear sandals, even in this heat.

    Sometimes @HYUFD , you should think about the size of tent you want your party to pitch. Right now it’s looking smaller than most of those at Glasto.
    He's in his comfort zone, a kind of right-wing Corbynism. And the thing is, bungs for the rich old has worked a treat up til now.

    If and when the Conservatives are finally chucked out of power, they're going to need to go away and do some serious thinking about how they replace that tiny little two-man tent with a nice big yurt. Although they might choose to sulk for a decade before they stop hating most of the country that they wish to govern. That's what happened last time, after all.
    If Sunak and Hunt lose for most Tories it will be because they were too wet and they will want some proper rightwing red meat in opposition.
    Prigozhin may be available if you're looking for a new leader.
    Please do not give him ideas !!!!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited June 2023
    Done glasto three times

    22 years old, sunny, loads of drugs, did whole three days. Brilliant. Can’t remember any music l. Maybe Bowie?

    About 27 years old. Sunny. Loads of stuff. Did 2 days. Can’t remember any music except waking up to to billy bragg singing milkman of human kindness live on stage to about 11 people in the morning sun. Oddly brilliant. Also new order yay

    30 odd years old. Muddy and rainy. Did 1 night on E and saw catatonia and primal scream at their peak. Fucked off after 1 night. Didn’t care. Ticket was free as a press job, went on to my then beloved new girlfriend took about 2 months to wash all the mud away

    I’ve not much desire to return but it is a crucial British if not western experience, everyone should go at least ONCE
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    No that’s not true. I am a long way from being a far left socialist (although I like the occasional whinge) and I think capital is not taxed nearly enough and income, specifically earned income, far too much. We need to address this balance and cutting IHT is a step in the wrong direction.
    If you want to tax wealth and capital far more and income less then you are a Liberal ideogically not a Conservative Tory really even if still not a Socialist (who would want to tax capital and income more to fund an expansion of the welfare state and public sector)
    But, but I don’t wear sandals, even in this heat.

    Sometimes @HYUFD , you should think about the size of tent you want your party to pitch. Right now it’s looking smaller than most of those at Glasto.
    Still large enough for an awful lot of people to want to piss into it. Please form an orderly queue..
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Anyone watching Glasto? Couldn't get tickets this year but thought the Arctic Monkeys were decent, shame Lewis Capaldi lost his voice, poor chap

    Mixed feelings about Glastonbury.
    On one hand, £350 for a ticket to hang around in the smuggest place in the country for a line up which is considerably more mainstream than it was in my day (Elton John?).

    On the other hand, now wife and sister-in-law have turned the coverage on, I've genuinely enjoyed it, and would have paid good money to watch Rick Astley and the Blossoms* perform an entire set of Smiths songs.

    *the only band, to my knowledge, named after a pub I have been in.
    I jumped the fence in 2000 - the last year you could do it - and spent five days totally off my rocker. Some bloke near where we were camped was punting banging pills.

    I’d love to go back. Minus the class A’s, far too undignified at my age. It’s so much more than the headliners and main stages. There’s absolutely loads of stuff going on away from what gets shown on TV. I didn’t see any of the headliners, it was always too busy around the main stages. Thanks to scrotes like me jumping the fence.

    Though I did miss Bowie, to my shame.

    I should pull my finger out of my arse and go back, but I just cannot bothered with the whole ticket lottery thing.

    Looking forward to Gn’R tonight mind. Loved them when I was 13/14. Axl’s voice isn’t the fearsome beast it once was though, sadly. Thought the Monkeys were a bit meh. Lightning Seeds are on iplayer they were good. Been listening to it on 6 all day they’ve been playing good stuff - Young Fathers, The Comet is Coming, stuff like that.

    My missus is currently loving Texas in the iplayer. She once shared a lipstick with Sharlene Spiteri in the women’s toilets backstage when they supported Beautiful South - true story.
    I truly wish I'd gone at least once. Too old now. 62.
    You never went to Glasto…. Ever???

    Cmon man. Shape up. And you’re not too old. 62 is is nothing. 80 year olds go ffs

    Just go for one night and book luxe hotels either side. You can afford it. Do it
    @kinabalu could probably afford to sponsor Glastonbury 👍
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    As you have far cheaper house prices and don't need inheritances as much (though those with detached properties or significant savings in the North and Wales would also benefit from an increase in the IHT to £1 million)
    Nobody should aspire to inherit anything. You should live by your own means if you can.


    In any case, IHT is already £1m even on the death of both parents as any unused allowance is carried over.

    So it is actually £325k x 2 + £350k for the main home = £1m.
    Why shouldn't they?

    I am a Tory and believe in inherited wealth and the family.

    If I believed in pure individualism and wealth created by individual earnings alone I would be a Liberal not a Tory
    Well, I don't know about you, but I'd feel pretty guilty living off someone else's money if I was capable of looking after myself.

    The kind of people that don't end up gluing themselves to roads out of boredom.
    You can't live off an inheritance comfortably if it is less than £1 million, only if you inherit say £4 million+.

    Those super rich estates would still pay IHT if the threshold was £1 million
    Why not just use your own honest toil
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    edited June 2023
    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    No that’s not true. I am a long way from being a far left socialist (although I like the occasional whinge) and I think capital is not taxed nearly enough and income, specifically earned income, far too much. We need to address this balance and cutting IHT is a step in the wrong direction.
    If you want to tax wealth and capital far more and income less then you are a Liberal ideogically not a Conservative Tory really even if still not a Socialist (who would want to tax capital and income more to fund an expansion of the welfare state and public sector)
    But, but I don’t wear sandals, even in this heat.

    Sometimes @HYUFD , you should think about the size of tent you want your party to pitch. Right now it’s looking smaller than most of those at Glasto.
    He's in his comfort zone, a kind of right-wing Corbynism. And the thing is, bungs for the rich old has worked a treat up til now.

    If and when the Conservatives are finally chucked out of power, they're going to need to go away and do some serious thinking about how they replace that tiny little two-man tent with a nice big yurt. Although they might choose to sulk for a decade before they stop hating most of the country that they wish to govern. That's what happened last time, after all.
    If Sunak and Hunt lose for most Tories it will be because they were too wet and they will want some proper rightwing red meat in opposition.
    Sounds about right. Party memberships are notorious for being far more extreme than the general public. The tiny clique of Conservative members (mostly elderly male golf club bores in the Home Counties,) finding the party relieved of the burden of Government and in a sulking rage through being rejected, will doubtless end up being seduced by the most virulent nutcase from the surviving Parliamentary rump.

    Bringing back national service, pre-decimal currency, Dickensian workhouses, sending an army of occupation to Edinburgh to purge the SNP, and solving the problem of the Channel boats by ordering one of the Navy's two remaining operational warships to shell them, will be amongst the more moderate policies to be featured in any subsequent manifesto.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited June 2023
    THE crucial Glastonbury experience is when you realise at about 2am you are and your friends/lovers/weird new friends are SO off your heads on shrooms and E you have absolutely no idea where your tent is, amongst 60,000 tents

    Cue much hilarity, panic, fear, laughter, danger, euphoric feelings of freedom, truly scary encounters, and totally unexpected casual sex
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    No that’s not true. I am a long way from being a far left socialist (although I like the occasional whinge) and I think capital is not taxed nearly enough and income, specifically earned income, far too much. We need to address this balance and cutting IHT is a step in the wrong direction.
    If you want to tax wealth and capital far more and income less then you are a Liberal ideogically not a Conservative Tory really even if still not a Socialist (who would want to tax capital and income more to fund an expansion of the welfare state and public sector)
    But, but I don’t wear sandals, even in this heat.

    Sometimes @HYUFD , you should think about the size of tent you want your party to pitch. Right now it’s looking smaller than most of those at Glasto.
    You are an Orange Book LD not a Tory.

    63% want to raise the IHT threshold. 48% even want to scrap IHT completely, far higher than the current Tory poll rating

    https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/our-news/press-releases/yougov-poll-shows-majority-support-raising-iht-threshold-above-325k-despite-eyewatering-public-finance-decisions-ahead
    I think we need to tax inheritance properly to help out with the national debt. So no more transfer of the IHT tax free threshold to the surviving partner's estate. No more £1m threshold for those with children

    Get rid of all the exemptions like 'gifts out of income'

    To be clear I support IHT free transfers between the widowed spouse/civil partnership relationship etc but beyond the inheritors need to pay.

    And let's make it 50% on anything over £200,000

    👍👍👍
    You'll be voting Labour next!
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    As you have far cheaper house prices and don't need inheritances as much (though those with detached properties or significant savings in the North and Wales would also benefit from an increase in the IHT to £1 million)
    Nobody should aspire to inherit anything. You should live by your own means if you can.


    In any case, IHT is already £1m even on the death of both parents as any unused allowance is carried over.

    So it is actually £325k x 2 + £350k for the main home = £1m.
    Why shouldn't they?

    I am a Tory and believe in inherited wealth and the family.

    If I believed in pure individualism and wealth created by individual earnings alone I would be a Liberal not a Tory
    Well, I don't know about you, but I'd feel pretty guilty living off someone else's money if I was capable of looking after myself.

    The kind of people that don't end up gluing themselves to roads out of boredom.
    You can't live off an inheritance comfortably if it is less than £1 million, only if you inherit say £4 million+.

    Those super rich estates would still pay IHT if the threshold was £1 million
    Get a job, you bum.

    No need to live off anything others have earnt.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,218

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    As you have far cheaper house prices and don't need inheritances as much (though those with detached properties or significant savings in the North and Wales would also benefit from an increase in the IHT to £1 million)
    Nobody should aspire to inherit anything. You should live by your own means if you can.


    In any case, IHT is already £1m even on the death of both parents as any unused allowance is carried over.

    So it is actually £325k x 2 + £350k for the main home = £1m.
    Why shouldn't they?

    I am a Tory and believe in inherited wealth and the family.

    If I believed in pure individualism and wealth created by individual earnings alone I would be a Liberal not a Tory
    Well, I don't know about you, but I'd feel pretty guilty living off someone else's money if I was capable of looking after myself.

    The kind of people that don't end up gluing themselves to roads out of boredom.
    You can't live off an inheritance comfortably if it is less than £1 million, only if you inherit say £4 million+.

    Those super rich estates would still pay IHT if the threshold was £1 million
    Why not just use your own honest toil
    Because that's not the authentically Tory thing to do. Being the party of inherited wealth is. I suppose it's accurate, historically.

    The minor details that a) a country run like that will rapidly stagnate and die and b) a party proposing that will always lose in a world of universal suffrage don't matter. Neither does the observation that the Conservatives of yore adapted to ensure their survival.

    It may be a wrench, but right now go into away and supporting the other lot is the conservative thing to do. Because the Conservatives are still cycling through various shades of crazy.
  • HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    No that’s not true. I am a long way from being a far left socialist (although I like the occasional whinge) and I think capital is not taxed nearly enough and income, specifically earned income, far too much. We need to address this balance and cutting IHT is a step in the wrong direction.
    If you want to tax wealth and capital far more and income less then you are a Liberal ideogically not a Conservative Tory really even if still not a Socialist (who would want to tax capital and income more to fund an expansion of the welfare state and public sector)
    But, but I don’t wear sandals, even in this heat.

    Sometimes @HYUFD , you should think about the size of tent you want your party to pitch. Right now it’s looking smaller than most of those at Glasto.
    You are an Orange Book LD not a Tory.

    63% want to raise the IHT threshold. 48% even want to scrap IHT completely, far higher than the current Tory poll rating

    https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/our-news/press-releases/yougov-poll-shows-majority-support-raising-iht-threshold-above-325k-despite-eyewatering-public-finance-decisions-ahead
    I think we need to tax inheritance properly to help out with the national debt. So no more transfer of the IHT tax free threshold to the surviving partner's estate. No more £1m threshold for those with children

    Get rid of all the exemptions like 'gifts out of income'

    To be clear I support IHT free transfers between the widowed spouse/civil partnership relationship etc but beyond the inheritors need to pay.

    And let's make it 50% on anything over £200,000

    👍👍👍
    I'd simplify it, no tax on transfers between spouses, but every penny of inheritance gets taxed the same as money people have worked for gets taxed, including of course National Insurance.

    Earned income should not be taxed less than unearned income.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    No that’s not true. I am a long way from being a far left socialist (although I like the occasional whinge) and I think capital is not taxed nearly enough and income, specifically earned income, far too much. We need to address this balance and cutting IHT is a step in the wrong direction.
    If you want to tax wealth and capital far more and income less then you are a Liberal ideogically not a Conservative Tory really even if still not a Socialist (who would want to tax capital and income more to fund an expansion of the welfare state and public sector)
    But, but I don’t wear sandals, even in this heat.

    Sometimes @HYUFD , you should think about the size of tent you want your party to pitch. Right now it’s looking smaller than most of those at Glasto.
    You are an Orange Book LD not a Tory.

    63% want to raise the IHT threshold. 48% even want to scrap IHT completely, far higher than the current Tory poll rating

    https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/our-news/press-releases/yougov-poll-shows-majority-support-raising-iht-threshold-above-325k-despite-eyewatering-public-finance-decisions-ahead
    I think we need to tax inheritance properly to help out with the national debt. So no more transfer of the IHT tax free threshold to the surviving partner's estate. No more £1m threshold for those with children

    Get rid of all the exemptions like 'gifts out of income'

    To be clear I support IHT free transfers between the widowed spouse/civil partnership relationship etc but beyond the inheritors need to pay.

    And let's make it 50% on anything over £200,000

    👍👍👍
    A policy which if Starmer went for it would be even more unpopular than May's dementia tax and would probably be the one thing that could now win the Tories a 5th term, so despised would it be. Indeed it would hit properties even on the average UK house price
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    As you have far cheaper house prices and don't need inheritances as much (though those with detached properties or significant savings in the North and Wales would also benefit from an increase in the IHT to £1 million)
    Nobody should aspire to inherit anything. You should live by your own means if you can.


    In any case, IHT is already £1m even on the death of both parents as any unused allowance is carried over.

    So it is actually £325k x 2 + £350k for the main home = £1m.
    Why shouldn't they?

    I am a Tory and believe in inherited wealth and the family.

    If I believed in pure individualism and wealth created by individual earnings alone I would be a Liberal not a Tory
    Well, I don't know about you, but I'd feel pretty guilty living off someone else's money if I was capable of looking after myself.

    The kind of people that don't end up gluing themselves to roads out of boredom.
    You can't live off an inheritance comfortably if it is less than £1 million, only if you inherit say £4 million+.

    Those super rich estates would still pay IHT if the threshold was £1 million
    Why not just use your own honest toil
    Because he's on PB 24 hours a day.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,555
    That 22% Tory vote share with YouGov was a real shocker.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    As you have far cheaper house prices and don't need inheritances as much (though those with detached properties or significant savings in the North and Wales would also benefit from an increase in the IHT to £1 million)
    Nobody should aspire to inherit anything. You should live by your own means if you can.


    In any case, IHT is already £1m even on the death of both parents as any unused allowance is carried over.

    So it is actually £325k x 2 + £350k for the main home = £1m.
    Why shouldn't they?

    I am a Tory and believe in inherited wealth and the family.

    If I believed in pure individualism and wealth created by individual earnings alone I would be a Liberal not a Tory
    Well, I don't know about you, but I'd feel pretty guilty living off someone else's money if I was capable of looking after myself.

    The kind of people that don't end up gluing themselves to roads out of boredom.
    You can't live off an inheritance comfortably if it is less than £1 million, only if you inherit say £4 million+.

    Those super rich estates would still pay IHT if the threshold was £1 million
    Get a job, you bum.

    No need to live off anything others have earnt.
    I have a job but I also support inherited wealth as all proper Tories do, you now being a Liberal Democrat voter obviously don't
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    As you have far cheaper house prices and don't need inheritances as much (though those with detached properties or significant savings in the North and Wales would also benefit from an increase in the IHT to £1 million)
    Nobody should aspire to inherit anything. You should live by your own means if you can.


    In any case, IHT is already £1m even on the death of both parents as any unused allowance is carried over.

    So it is actually £325k x 2 + £350k for the main home = £1m.
    Why shouldn't they?

    I am a Tory and believe in inherited wealth and the family.

    If I believed in pure individualism and wealth created by individual earnings alone I would be a Liberal not a Tory
    Well, I don't know about you, but I'd feel pretty guilty living off someone else's money if I was capable of looking after myself.

    The kind of people that don't end up gluing themselves to roads out of boredom.
    You can't live off an inheritance comfortably if it is less than £1 million, only if you inherit say £4 million+.

    Those super rich estates would still pay IHT if the threshold was £1 million
    Why not just use your own honest toil
    Because he's on PB 24 hours a day.
    There is something distinctly distasteful about promoting IHT exemptions for your own gain
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377
    Andy_JS said:

    That 22% Tory vote share with YouGov was a real shocker.

    Yes, but in a good way.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    edited June 2023
    See. There are many working in the private sector who seem able to post 24/7.
    Whereas I, in the public sector am forbidden from being Online from 8:30 to 4:30 Monday to Friday.
    So I can't refute the idea that I do nowt all day.
    20% of us can be fired cos we do nowt.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,627
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    As you have far cheaper house prices and don't need inheritances as much (though those with detached properties or significant savings in the North and Wales would also benefit from an increase in the IHT to £1 million)
    Nobody should aspire to inherit anything. You should live by your own means if you can.


    In any case, IHT is already £1m even on the death of both parents as any unused allowance is carried over.

    So it is actually £325k x 2 + £350k for the main home = £1m.
    Why shouldn't they?

    I am a Tory and believe in inherited wealth and the family.

    If I believed in pure individualism and wealth created by individual earnings alone I would be a Liberal not a Tory
    Well, I don't know about you, but I'd feel pretty guilty living off someone else's money if I was capable of looking after myself.

    The kind of people that don't end up gluing themselves to roads out of boredom.
    You can't live off an inheritance comfortably if it is less than £1 million, only if you inherit say £4 million+.

    Those super rich estates would still pay IHT if the threshold was £1 million
    At what age is the person in your hypothetical scenario receiving their inheritance?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    No that’s not true. I am a long way from being a far left socialist (although I like the occasional whinge) and I think capital is not taxed nearly enough and income, specifically earned income, far too much. We need to address this balance and cutting IHT is a step in the wrong direction.
    If you want to tax wealth and capital far more and income less then you are a Liberal ideogically not a Conservative Tory really even if still not a Socialist (who would want to tax capital and income more to fund an expansion of the welfare state and public sector)
    But, but I don’t wear sandals, even in this heat.

    Sometimes @HYUFD , you should think about the size of tent you want your party to pitch. Right now it’s looking smaller than most of those at Glasto.
    You are an Orange Book LD not a Tory.

    63% want to raise the IHT threshold. 48% even want to scrap IHT completely, far higher than the current Tory poll rating

    https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/our-news/press-releases/yougov-poll-shows-majority-support-raising-iht-threshold-above-325k-despite-eyewatering-public-finance-decisions-ahead
    I think we need to tax inheritance properly to help out with the national debt. So no more transfer of the IHT tax free threshold to the surviving partner's estate. No more £1m threshold for those with children

    Get rid of all the exemptions like 'gifts out of income'

    To be clear I support IHT free transfers between the widowed spouse/civil partnership relationship etc but beyond the inheritors need to pay.

    And let's make it 50% on anything over £200,000

    👍👍👍
    I'd simplify it, no tax on transfers between spouses, but every penny of inheritance gets taxed the same as money people have worked for gets taxed, including of course National Insurance.

    Earned income should not be taxed less than unearned income.
    It's a bit bizarre that money you strive for is taxed at a higher rate than money you don't.


  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    That 22% Tory vote share with YouGov was a real shocker.

    Still higher than the 19% Truss' Tories were on with Yougov last October

    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/8w0a2xhvy8/TheTimes_VI_Results_221021_W.pdf
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    As you have far cheaper house prices and don't need inheritances as much (though those with detached properties or significant savings in the North and Wales would also benefit from an increase in the IHT to £1 million)
    Nobody should aspire to inherit anything. You should live by your own means if you can.


    In any case, IHT is already £1m even on the death of both parents as any unused allowance is carried over.

    So it is actually £325k x 2 + £350k for the main home = £1m.
    Why shouldn't they?

    I am a Tory and believe in inherited wealth and the family.

    If I believed in pure individualism and wealth created by individual earnings alone I would be a Liberal not a Tory
    Well, I don't know about you, but I'd feel pretty guilty living off someone else's money if I was capable of looking after myself.

    The kind of people that don't end up gluing themselves to roads out of boredom.
    You can't live off an inheritance comfortably if it is less than £1 million, only if you inherit say £4 million+.

    Those super rich estates would still pay IHT if the threshold was £1 million
    At what age is the person in your hypothetical scenario receiving their inheritance?
    206
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,555

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    No that’s not true. I am a long way from being a far left socialist (although I like the occasional whinge) and I think capital is not taxed nearly enough and income, specifically earned income, far too much. We need to address this balance and cutting IHT is a step in the wrong direction.
    If you want to tax wealth and capital far more and income less then you are a Liberal ideogically not a Conservative Tory really even if still not a Socialist (who would want to tax capital and income more to fund an expansion of the welfare state and public sector)
    But, but I don’t wear sandals, even in this heat.

    Sometimes @HYUFD , you should think about the size of tent you want your party to pitch. Right now it’s looking smaller than most of those at Glasto.
    You are an Orange Book LD not a Tory.

    63% want to raise the IHT threshold. 48% even want to scrap IHT completely, far higher than the current Tory poll rating

    https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/our-news/press-releases/yougov-poll-shows-majority-support-raising-iht-threshold-above-325k-despite-eyewatering-public-finance-decisions-ahead
    I think we need to tax inheritance properly to help out with the national debt. So no more transfer of the IHT tax free threshold to the surviving partner's estate. No more £1m threshold for those with children

    Get rid of all the exemptions like 'gifts out of income'

    To be clear I support IHT free transfers between the widowed spouse/civil partnership relationship etc but beyond the inheritors need to pay.

    And let's make it 50% on anything over £200,000

    👍👍👍
    I'd simplify it, no tax on transfers between spouses, but every penny of inheritance gets taxed the same as money people have worked for gets taxed, including of course National Insurance.

    Earned income should not be taxed less than unearned income.
    How can income be unearned?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    As you have far cheaper house prices and don't need inheritances as much (though those with detached properties or significant savings in the North and Wales would also benefit from an increase in the IHT to £1 million)
    Nobody should aspire to inherit anything. You should live by your own means if you can.


    In any case, IHT is already £1m even on the death of both parents as any unused allowance is carried over.

    So it is actually £325k x 2 + £350k for the main home = £1m.
    Why shouldn't they?

    I am a Tory and believe in inherited wealth and the family.

    If I believed in pure individualism and wealth created by individual earnings alone I would be a Liberal not a Tory
    Well, I don't know about you, but I'd feel pretty guilty living off someone else's money if I was capable of looking after myself.

    The kind of people that don't end up gluing themselves to roads out of boredom.
    You can't live off an inheritance comfortably if it is less than £1 million, only if you inherit say £4 million+.

    Those super rich estates would still pay IHT if the threshold was £1 million
    Depends what you mean by comfortably. You could easily scoop the median salary on interest alone. If you're 40 and prudent, a million lump sum is enough to retire on.
    Half of it would go on property in the South, it certainly wouldn't all go on annual earnings
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    As you have far cheaper house prices and don't need inheritances as much (though those with detached properties or significant savings in the North and Wales would also benefit from an increase in the IHT to £1 million)
    Nobody should aspire to inherit anything. You should live by your own means if you can.


    In any case, IHT is already £1m even on the death of both parents as any unused allowance is carried over.

    So it is actually £325k x 2 + £350k for the main home = £1m.
    Why shouldn't they?

    I am a Tory and believe in inherited wealth and the family.

    If I believed in pure individualism and wealth created by individual earnings alone I would be a Liberal not a Tory
    Well, I don't know about you, but I'd feel pretty guilty living off someone else's money if I was capable of looking after myself.

    The kind of people that don't end up gluing themselves to roads out of boredom.
    You can't live off an inheritance comfortably if it is less than £1 million, only if you inherit say £4 million+.

    Those super rich estates would still pay IHT if the threshold was £1 million
    Why not just use your own honest toil
    Because he's on PB 24 hours a day.
    There is something distinctly distasteful about promoting IHT exemptions for your own gain
    There is nothing distasteful about promoting inherited wealth, it is called Toryism
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    As you have far cheaper house prices and don't need inheritances as much (though those with detached properties or significant savings in the North and Wales would also benefit from an increase in the IHT to £1 million)
    Nobody should aspire to inherit anything. You should live by your own means if you can.


    In any case, IHT is already £1m even on the death of both parents as any unused allowance is carried over.

    So it is actually £325k x 2 + £350k for the main home = £1m.
    Why shouldn't they?

    I am a Tory and believe in inherited wealth and the family.

    If I believed in pure individualism and wealth created by individual earnings alone I would be a Liberal not a Tory
    Well, I don't know about you, but I'd feel pretty guilty living off someone else's money if I was capable of looking after myself.

    The kind of people that don't end up gluing themselves to roads out of boredom.
    You can't live off an inheritance comfortably if it is less than £1 million, only if you inherit say £4 million+.

    Those super rich estates would still pay IHT if the threshold was £1 million
    Depends what you mean by comfortably. You could easily scoop the median salary on interest alone. If you're 40 and prudent, a million lump sum is enough to retire on.
    Half of it would go on property in the South, it certainly wouldn't all go on annual earnings
    You don't have to buy and you don't have to live in the south
    If you don't buy half of it would have to be put aside for rent
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    No that’s not true. I am a long way from being a far left socialist (although I like the occasional whinge) and I think capital is not taxed nearly enough and income, specifically earned income, far too much. We need to address this balance and cutting IHT is a step in the wrong direction.
    If you want to tax wealth and capital far more and income less then you are a Liberal ideogically not a Conservative Tory really even if still not a Socialist (who would want to tax capital and income more to fund an expansion of the welfare state and public sector)
    But, but I don’t wear sandals, even in this heat.

    Sometimes @HYUFD , you should think about the size of tent you want your party to pitch. Right now it’s looking smaller than most of those at Glasto.
    You are an Orange Book LD not a Tory.

    63% want to raise the IHT threshold. 48% even want to scrap IHT completely, far higher than the current Tory poll rating

    https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/our-news/press-releases/yougov-poll-shows-majority-support-raising-iht-threshold-above-325k-despite-eyewatering-public-finance-decisions-ahead
    I think we need to tax inheritance properly to help out with the national debt. So no more transfer of the IHT tax free threshold to the surviving partner's estate. No more £1m threshold for those with children

    Get rid of all the exemptions like 'gifts out of income'

    To be clear I support IHT free transfers between the widowed spouse/civil partnership relationship etc but beyond the inheritors need to pay.

    And let's make it 50% on anything over £200,000

    👍👍👍
    A policy which if Starmer went for it would be even more unpopular than May's dementia tax and would probably be the one thing that could now win the Tories a 5th term, so despised would it be. Indeed it would hit properties even on the average UK house price
    If increased taxes on inheritance led to property values going down - which it would do - it's a good thing.

    It would make it easier for people from poorer backgrounds who can't rely on Mummy and Daddy money to get on the property ladder.

    Good news all round!

    👍
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    edited June 2023
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    No that’s not true. I am a long way from being a far left socialist (although I like the occasional whinge) and I think capital is not taxed nearly enough and income, specifically earned income, far too much. We need to address this balance and cutting IHT is a step in the wrong direction.
    If you want to tax wealth and capital far more and income less then you are a Liberal ideogically not a Conservative Tory really even if still not a Socialist (who would want to tax capital and income more to fund an expansion of the welfare state and public sector)
    But, but I don’t wear sandals, even in this heat.

    Sometimes @HYUFD , you should think about the size of tent you want your party to pitch. Right now it’s looking smaller than most of those at Glasto.
    You are an Orange Book LD not a Tory.

    63% want to raise the IHT threshold. 48% even want to scrap IHT completely, far higher than the current Tory poll rating

    https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/our-news/press-releases/yougov-poll-shows-majority-support-raising-iht-threshold-above-325k-despite-eyewatering-public-finance-decisions-ahead
    There is some truth in that. When I was a teenager, more than 40 years ago now, I was active in the SDP and agreed with the Orange Bookers about economics, if not the EU fawning. I've not changed much. I still believe in sound money, sensible public finances, the importance of public services which work for those who need them but are not overbearing for those who don't, equality of opportunity and as much freedom as is compatible with all of the above.

    One nation Tories used to be a major and important part of the brand and I felt equally comfortable with them as they had much in common as we saw during the Coalition government. It seems to me that the Tories are defining themselves into a corner, one that has no chance at all of regaining power after they inevitably lose it. They need to refocus on what the majority of this country needs, not just the wealthy. And they could try being more hospitable to those with whom they have common ground. You should try it too.
  • Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    No that’s not true. I am a long way from being a far left socialist (although I like the occasional whinge) and I think capital is not taxed nearly enough and income, specifically earned income, far too much. We need to address this balance and cutting IHT is a step in the wrong direction.
    If you want to tax wealth and capital far more and income less then you are a Liberal ideogically not a Conservative Tory really even if still not a Socialist (who would want to tax capital and income more to fund an expansion of the welfare state and public sector)
    But, but I don’t wear sandals, even in this heat.

    Sometimes @HYUFD , you should think about the size of tent you want your party to pitch. Right now it’s looking smaller than most of those at Glasto.
    You are an Orange Book LD not a Tory.

    63% want to raise the IHT threshold. 48% even want to scrap IHT completely, far higher than the current Tory poll rating

    https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/our-news/press-releases/yougov-poll-shows-majority-support-raising-iht-threshold-above-325k-despite-eyewatering-public-finance-decisions-ahead
    I think we need to tax inheritance properly to help out with the national debt. So no more transfer of the IHT tax free threshold to the surviving partner's estate. No more £1m threshold for those with children

    Get rid of all the exemptions like 'gifts out of income'

    To be clear I support IHT free transfers between the widowed spouse/civil partnership relationship etc but beyond the inheritors need to pay.

    And let's make it 50% on anything over £200,000

    👍👍👍
    I'd simplify it, no tax on transfers between spouses, but every penny of inheritance gets taxed the same as money people have worked for gets taxed, including of course National Insurance.

    Earned income should not be taxed less than unearned income.
    How can income be unearned?
    Inheritance, rent etc

    Wages should not be taxed at a higher rate than income people haven't worked themselves for.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Anyway

    It's time for Pubman late night opinion

    CON aren't getting the 5th term.

    GN all 🍺
  • HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    5m
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 44% (+3)
    CON: 26% (-3)
    REF: 10% (+3)
    LDEM: 8% (-3)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 21 - 23 Jun

    Tory A Team fans please explain

    Reform on 10% now just 2% off of UKIP's voteshare in 2015, Farage may be tempted to return to lead them if that becomes consistent.

    However plenty of time for Sunak and Hunt to win back voters from Reform with tax cuts and reductions in immigration
    Except in reality... neither of those works, does it?

    There is less than no money. So tax cuts are out of the question- the frozen thresholds means that taxes are going up, if anything. And immigration is the only thing keeping health, social care and the economy moving.

    So what does Rishi do?
    If inflation falls through the government's tight control of spending then that would allow for a cut in the basic rate especially, perhaps promise of raising the IHT threshold to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.

    Economic migrants are certainly not all working in the NHS and migration remains a key concern for Tory to RefUK swing voters
    If strawberry plants achieve sentience and send intergalactic starships to the Magellanic Clouds, and if Boris Johnson solves the P versus NP problem, the Tories might be re-elected.


    Edit: ... and in any case most estates are 1m free of IHT, if they are of the Tory-approved nuclear family un-woke variety. So why bother changing?
    Only the main property of married couples via transfer, not assets beyond the main property or for children of divorced couples or where one died before Osborne's tax reform.

    The IHT threshold is still £325k, it should be raised to £1 million in my view and that should be in the Tory manifesto next year as a promise if they are re elected
    The practical limit is 1m for approved politically correct families as far as most people realise - IHT is only ever an issue with the second death of the married couple.

    £1M per person woiuld be absolutely outrageous and a further kick in the teeth of working people and a further sign that Tories and their elderly voters are parasitic leeches on society.
    Only a whinging far left socialist like you would think removing decent middle class families out of IHT whether the parents are married or not and for all assets not just the main residence and leaving it only for the very rich was somehow 'outrageous.'

    I am not a far left whinging socialist but a one nation conservative who considers IHT a fair tax based on £325,000

    Why should those of us in the north give wealthy southerners a million pound bung
    As you have far cheaper house prices and don't need inheritances as much (though those with detached properties or significant savings in the North and Wales would also benefit from an increase in the IHT to £1 million)
    Nobody should aspire to inherit anything. You should live by your own means if you can.


    In any case, IHT is already £1m even on the death of both parents as any unused allowance is carried over.

    So it is actually £325k x 2 + £350k for the main home = £1m.
    Why shouldn't they?

    I am a Tory and believe in inherited wealth and the family.

    If I believed in pure individualism and wealth created by individual earnings alone I would be a Liberal not a Tory
    Well, I don't know about you, but I'd feel pretty guilty living off someone else's money if I was capable of looking after myself.

    The kind of people that don't end up gluing themselves to roads out of boredom.
    You can't live off an inheritance comfortably if it is less than £1 million, only if you inherit say £4 million+.

    Those super rich estates would still pay IHT if the threshold was £1 million
    Depends what you mean by comfortably. You could easily scoop the median salary on interest alone. If you're 40 and prudent, a million lump sum is enough to retire on.
    Half of it would go on property in the South, it certainly wouldn't all go on annual earnings
    You don't have to buy and you don't have to live in the south
    If you don't buy half of it would have to be put aside for rent
    Like people who work for a living. What's your problem with that?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708


    Who knows? It's all very strange. Nor is there much sign of Ukraine taking advantage, though they still might - perhaps the Soviet-era doctrine of never launching an offensive without weeks of preparation is still in force on both sides?

    It normally seems to take a day or two to get information about military movements. There are people saying that the Ukrainians have crossed the river at Kherson and are now attacking from that end.
This discussion has been closed.