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Johnson inevitably dominates the front pages – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,047
edited June 2023 in General
imageJohnson inevitably dominates the front pages – politicalbetting.com

For someone who loves the limelight just about more than anyone else in British politics, Johnson should love the Friday front pages.

Read the full story here

«13

Comments

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,969
    Is Boris the "man in black" on the DM's front page? 🤔
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BartholomewRoberts - So what do you think changed in the US, in 2014? Why has US life expectancy declined since then, after increasing in almost every year since the end of WW II?

    By the way, the gap in life expectancy between blacks and whites declined during the same time period. By the early 1980s, black women were living longer than white men.

    (Those who want to understand the trends in the US life expectancy should study this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_paradox .)

    It takes time for bad health behaviours to feed through into lower life expectancy. People started getting seriously overweight and obese in the mid-80s in both the UK and USA but there wasn't a significant diabetes problem for about 15 to 20 years after that. Also the opioid epidemic didn't become a big thing until about 2010. I don't think guns are a significant cause of lower life expectancy in the United States, because ultimately only a tiny percentage of people are involved. It's mainly obesity and opioids.
    Guns should be a tiny percentage of people involved, but guns are the single largest killer of American children.

    Not cancer, or road traffic accidents, or accidents in general. Firearms. American children are more likely to die from a firearm than any other cause.

    Now of course children's deaths are not significant numbers compared to adult deaths, but children's deaths especially unnecessary ones can adjust averages more because that is many decades of lives lost per excess death.
    Someone goes into a school and murders 20 children, that's ~1400 years of life expectancy lost right there.
    Yes but most Americans still back the right to keep and bear arms.

    68% of American voters want to retain the 2nd amendment, 46% of Americans even believe that includes the right to personally own and keep a semi automatic rifle
    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-62/
    Thank you Captain Obvious.

    But this isn't a discussion on gun control or opinion polls, its a discussion on life expectancy, and the remarkable fact is that guns do play a significant enough role to show up in death statistics and affect life expectancy. Opinion polls don't change that.

    Its not just school shootings, as common as they may be. A gun in a family home 'for self-defence' is much, much more likely to kill that families child, than it is to kill an intruder.
    Well that is Americans choice, it is not our business to lecture them on their Constitution if they don't want to change it
    Who was lecturing anyone? Nobody had even brought the Constitution into it before you did.

    We were discussing numbers, facts and what was influencing the death rate.

    The fact that you found those facts so disturbing you had to jump in with "yeah but second amendment" goes with the fact you consistently sup the kool aid of American extremists.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    edited June 2023

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BartholomewRoberts - So what do you think changed in the US, in 2014? Why has US life expectancy declined since then, after increasing in almost every year since the end of WW II?

    By the way, the gap in life expectancy between blacks and whites declined during the same time period. By the early 1980s, black women were living longer than white men.

    (Those who want to understand the trends in the US life expectancy should study this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_paradox .)

    It takes time for bad health behaviours to feed through into lower life expectancy. People started getting seriously overweight and obese in the mid-80s in both the UK and USA but there wasn't a significant diabetes problem for about 15 to 20 years after that. Also the opioid epidemic didn't become a big thing until about 2010. I don't think guns are a significant cause of lower life expectancy in the United States, because ultimately only a tiny percentage of people are involved. It's mainly obesity and opioids.
    Guns should be a tiny percentage of people involved, but guns are the single largest killer of American children.

    Not cancer, or road traffic accidents, or accidents in general. Firearms. American children are more likely to die from a firearm than any other cause.

    Now of course children's deaths are not significant numbers compared to adult deaths, but children's deaths especially unnecessary ones can adjust averages more because that is many decades of lives lost per excess death.
    Someone goes into a school and murders 20 children, that's ~1400 years of life expectancy lost right there.
    Yes but most Americans still back the right to keep and bear arms.

    68% of American voters want to retain the 2nd amendment, 46% of Americans even believe that includes the right to personally own and keep a semi automatic rifle
    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-62/
    Thank you Captain Obvious.

    But this isn't a discussion on gun control or opinion polls, its a discussion on life expectancy, and the remarkable fact is that guns do play a significant enough role to show up in death statistics and affect life expectancy. Opinion polls don't change that.

    Its not just school shootings, as common as they may be. A gun in a family home 'for self-defence' is much, much more likely to kill that families child, than it is to kill an intruder.
    Well that is Americans choice, it is not our business to lecture them on their Constitution if they don't want to change it
    Who was lecturing anyone? Nobody had even brought the Constitution into it before you did.

    We were discussing numbers, facts and what was influencing the death rate.

    The fact that you found those facts so disturbing you had to jump in with "yeah but second amendment" goes with the fact you consistently sup the kool aid of American extremists.
    The fact 68% of Americans want to retain the 2nd amendment shows precisely that that is not the view of 'American extremists' but the American majority
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,084
    It is sobering to wonder how much less coverage there would have been of the Nottingham murders if they had occurred yesterday. A good day to bury bad news, indeed.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358
    edited June 2023
    Festus Akinbusoye, police & crime commissioner for Bedfordshire, chosen as Con candidate for the Mid Beds by-election.

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1669451466111631361
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    edited June 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    Festus Akinbusoye, police & crime commissioner for Bedfordshire, chosen as Con candidate for the Mid Beds by-election.

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1669451466111631361

    While Uxbridge and South Ruislip Conservatives have selected South Ruislip councillor and Deputy Chairman of Uxbridge Conservatives Steve Tuckwell to be their by election candidate tonight too it seems.

    Tuckwell is Hillingdon born and raised and still works and lives there with his family
    https://twitter.com/SmallwoodCorner/status/1669471087430709256?s=20
    https://twitter.com/tomorrowsmps/status/1669466600855019520?s=20
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    edited June 2023
    Selby Tories picked Michael Naughton as candidate for their by election but one candidate who lost the selection battle wants a re run
    https://twitter.com/tomorrowsmps/status/1669478406256205825?s=20
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,274
    Rogueywon said:

    The political demise of Johnson reminds me of the collapse of a Ponzi scheme.

    When a big Ponzi falls over, the investors fall into a few different categories. First, you've got the winners. Ponzis do have winners - those who got in early and got out early. They make themselves scarce and emphasise how absolutely tip-top fine it seemed to them all along (Rees-Mogg). Then you've got the average investors, who lost a bit but not more than they could handle. They shake their heads and walk away, poorer but wiser (Sunak and most of the Conservative MPs). Then you've got those who lost enough to hurt, who rage against the fraudster behind the scheme and try to enact vengeance upon him (Philip Davies).

    And finally, you have those who lost the most. The ones who know deep down that after this, they're out on the street and digging through bins for the remnants of half-eaten kebabs. They deny that they've been conned. They deny that any fraud has happened. They plead, desperately, that the fraudster is a good man and that their money must be safe with him. They rage against the police, against HMRC, against the FBI, against whoever else is investigating, because it's their fault that the whole thing is falling apart. We know who's in that category.

    Like a Great American once said - there's a sucker born every minute.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,274
    edited June 2023

    The newspapers that still support Johnson are the ones that share his values of truth and integrity.

    Bird cage liner. For low-class birds.

    EDIT - in the American sense, NOT "lower class".
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358
    HYUFD said:

    Selby Tories picked Michael Naughton as candidate for their by election but one candidate who lost the selection battle wants a re run
    https://twitter.com/tomorrowsmps/status/1669478406256205825?s=20

    He may have a case, since the boundaries are not the same.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,274
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Selby Tories picked Michael Naughton as candidate for their by election but one candidate who lost the selection battle wants a re run
    https://twitter.com/tomorrowsmps/status/1669478406256205825?s=20

    He may have a case, since the boundaries are not the same.
    Is this yet another indication, of the seeming near-total dis-functionality of the Tory Party?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,084
    Andy_JS said:

    Festus Akinbusoye, police & crime commissioner for Bedfordshire, chosen as Con candidate for the Mid Beds by-election.

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1669451466111631361

    That will come in handy if Nadine Dorries ever does step down.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,228
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BartholomewRoberts - So what do you think changed in the US, in 2014? Why has US life expectancy declined since then, after increasing in almost every year since the end of WW II?

    By the way, the gap in life expectancy between blacks and whites declined during the same time period. By the early 1980s, black women were living longer than white men.

    (Those who want to understand the trends in the US life expectancy should study this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_paradox .)

    It takes time for bad health behaviours to feed through into lower life expectancy. People started getting seriously overweight and obese in the mid-80s in both the UK and USA but there wasn't a significant diabetes problem for about 15 to 20 years after that. Also the opioid epidemic didn't become a big thing until about 2010. I don't think guns are a significant cause of lower life expectancy in the United States, because ultimately only a tiny percentage of people are involved. It's mainly obesity and opioids.
    Guns should be a tiny percentage of people involved, but guns are the single largest killer of American children.

    Not cancer, or road traffic accidents, or accidents in general. Firearms. American children are more likely to die from a firearm than any other cause.

    Now of course children's deaths are not significant numbers compared to adult deaths, but children's deaths especially unnecessary ones can adjust averages more because that is many decades of lives lost per excess death.
    Someone goes into a school and murders 20 children, that's ~1400 years of life expectancy lost right there.
    Yes but most Americans still back the right to keep and bear arms.

    68% of American voters want to retain the 2nd amendment, 46% of Americans even believe that includes the right to personally own and keep a semi automatic rifle
    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-62/
    Thank you Captain Obvious.

    But this isn't a discussion on gun control or opinion polls, its a discussion on life expectancy, and the remarkable fact is that guns do play a significant enough role to show up in death statistics and affect life expectancy. Opinion polls don't change that.

    Its not just school shootings, as common as they may be. A gun in a family home 'for self-defence' is much, much more likely to kill that families child, than it is to kill an intruder.
    Well that is Americans choice, it is not our business to lecture them on their Constitution if they don't want to change it
    Who was lecturing anyone? Nobody had even brought the Constitution into it before you did.

    We were discussing numbers, facts and what was influencing the death rate.

    The fact that you found those facts so disturbing you had to jump in with "yeah but second amendment" goes with the fact you consistently sup the kool aid of American extremists.
    The fact 68% of Americans want to retain the 2nd amendment shows precisely that that is not the view of 'American extremists' but the American majority
    Do 68% of Americans think it is ok for Americans to own personal nuclear weapons?

    Or do they think there should be some limitations on the rights of citizens to bear arms?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Selby Tories picked Michael Naughton as candidate for their by election but one candidate who lost the selection battle wants a re run
    https://twitter.com/tomorrowsmps/status/1669478406256205825?s=20

    He may have a case, since the boundaries are not the same.
    Is this yet another indication, of the seeming near-total dis-functionality of the Tory Party?
    Not sure it is. There are always problems with boundary changes and selections, and a by-election just adds to the mix.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,574
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Selby Tories picked Michael Naughton as candidate for their by election but one candidate who lost the selection battle wants a re run
    https://twitter.com/tomorrowsmps/status/1669478406256205825?s=20

    He may have a case, since the boundaries are not the same.
    Is this yet another indication, of the seeming near-total dis-functionality of the Tory Party?
    Not sure it is. There are always problems with boundary changes and selections, and a by-election just adds to the mix.
    The boundary change don’t apply to the by election, so the candidate should be selected based on the current boundaries.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,274
    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Selby Tories picked Michael Naughton as candidate for their by election but one candidate who lost the selection battle wants a re run
    https://twitter.com/tomorrowsmps/status/1669478406256205825?s=20

    He may have a case, since the boundaries are not the same.
    Is this yet another indication, of the seeming near-total dis-functionality of the Tory Party?
    Not sure it is. There are always problems with boundary changes and selections, and a by-election just adds to the mix.
    The boundary change don’t apply to the by election, so the candidate should be selected based on the current boundaries.
    That appears to be the case. Selecting candidate based on NEW boundaries certainly does not seem kosher for by-election for OLD constituency.

    This is the kind of thing party committee officers - and hacks - generally are pretty aware of, in my experience.

    Back when WA State had precinct party caucuses, yours truly was responsible for calculating Democratic delegate allocations from precinct to district level and from there to state convention, based on last presidential election. AND every decade factoring in redistricting of state legislative and congressional boundaries.

    So am rather baffled WHY the Selby Con Assoc is in this situation? And how frequent is this type of confusion and/or kerfluffle re: parliamentary constituency boundary changes?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358
    O/T

    The surveillance society was cleverly predicted by this 1982 BBC drama called "Crimes".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REj9bDPDaiI
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,228
    As an aside, EDF just sent me an email telling me that my per KWh price is dropping 20%.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,274
    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, EDF just sent me an email telling me that my per KWh price is dropping 20%.

    Electrifying news!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BartholomewRoberts - So what do you think changed in the US, in 2014? Why has US life expectancy declined since then, after increasing in almost every year since the end of WW II?

    By the way, the gap in life expectancy between blacks and whites declined during the same time period. By the early 1980s, black women were living longer than white men.

    (Those who want to understand the trends in the US life expectancy should study this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_paradox .)

    It takes time for bad health behaviours to feed through into lower life expectancy. People started getting seriously overweight and obese in the mid-80s in both the UK and USA but there wasn't a significant diabetes problem for about 15 to 20 years after that. Also the opioid epidemic didn't become a big thing until about 2010. I don't think guns are a significant cause of lower life expectancy in the United States, because ultimately only a tiny percentage of people are involved. It's mainly obesity and opioids.
    Guns should be a tiny percentage of people involved, but guns are the single largest killer of American children.

    Not cancer, or road traffic accidents, or accidents in general. Firearms. American children are more likely to die from a firearm than any other cause.

    Now of course children's deaths are not significant numbers compared to adult deaths, but children's deaths especially unnecessary ones can adjust averages more because that is many decades of lives lost per excess death.
    Someone goes into a school and murders 20 children, that's ~1400 years of life expectancy lost right there.
    Yes but most Americans still back the right to keep and bear arms.

    68% of American voters want to retain the 2nd amendment, 46% of Americans even believe that includes the right to personally own and keep a semi automatic rifle
    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-62/
    Thank you Captain Obvious.

    But this isn't a discussion on gun control or opinion polls, its a discussion on life expectancy, and the remarkable fact is that guns do play a significant enough role to show up in death statistics and affect life expectancy. Opinion polls don't change that.

    Its not just school shootings, as common as they may be. A gun in a family home 'for self-defence' is much, much more likely to kill that families child, than it is to kill an intruder.
    Well that is Americans choice, it is not our business to lecture them on their Constitution if they don't want to change it
    Who was lecturing anyone? Nobody had even brought the Constitution into it before you did.

    We were discussing numbers, facts and what was influencing the death rate.

    The fact that you found those facts so disturbing you had to jump in with "yeah but second amendment" goes with the fact you consistently sup the kool aid of American extremists.
    The fact 68% of Americans want to retain the 2nd amendment shows precisely that that is not the view of 'American extremists' but the American majority
    Do 68% of Americans think it is ok for Americans to own personal nuclear weapons?

    Or do they think there should be some limitations on the rights of citizens to bear arms?
    They could possibly club together to use a Davy Crockett?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BartholomewRoberts - So what do you think changed in the US, in 2014? Why has US life expectancy declined since then, after increasing in almost every year since the end of WW II?

    By the way, the gap in life expectancy between blacks and whites declined during the same time period. By the early 1980s, black women were living longer than white men.

    (Those who want to understand the trends in the US life expectancy should study this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_paradox .)

    It takes time for bad health behaviours to feed through into lower life expectancy. People started getting seriously overweight and obese in the mid-80s in both the UK and USA but there wasn't a significant diabetes problem for about 15 to 20 years after that. Also the opioid epidemic didn't become a big thing until about 2010. I don't think guns are a significant cause of lower life expectancy in the United States, because ultimately only a tiny percentage of people are involved. It's mainly obesity and opioids.
    Guns should be a tiny percentage of people involved, but guns are the single largest killer of American children.

    Not cancer, or road traffic accidents, or accidents in general. Firearms. American children are more likely to die from a firearm than any other cause.

    Now of course children's deaths are not significant numbers compared to adult deaths, but children's deaths especially unnecessary ones can adjust averages more because that is many decades of lives lost per excess death.
    Someone goes into a school and murders 20 children, that's ~1400 years of life expectancy lost right there.
    Yes but most Americans still back the right to keep and bear arms.

    68% of American voters want to retain the 2nd amendment, 46% of Americans even believe that includes the right to personally own and keep a semi automatic rifle
    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-62/
    Thank you Captain Obvious.

    But this isn't a discussion on gun control or opinion polls, its a discussion on life expectancy, and the remarkable fact is that guns do play a significant enough role to show up in death statistics and affect life expectancy. Opinion polls don't change that.

    Its not just school shootings, as common as they may be. A gun in a family home 'for self-defence' is much, much more likely to kill that families child, than it is to kill an intruder.
    Well that is Americans choice, it is not our business to lecture them on their Constitution if they don't want to change it
    Who was lecturing anyone? Nobody had even brought the Constitution into it before you did.

    We were discussing numbers, facts and what was influencing the death rate.

    The fact that you found those facts so disturbing you had to jump in with "yeah but second amendment" goes with the fact you consistently sup the kool aid of American extremists.
    The fact 68% of Americans want to retain the 2nd amendment shows precisely that that is not the view of 'American extremists' but the American majority
    'The fact' doesn't show anything 'precisely'.
    Nearly two thirds of Americans want stricter gun control.
    https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/05/26/politics/cnn-poll-gun-laws/index.html
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 2,978
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BartholomewRoberts - So what do you think changed in the US, in 2014? Why has US life expectancy declined since then, after increasing in almost every year since the end of WW II?

    By the way, the gap in life expectancy between blacks and whites declined during the same time period. By the early 1980s, black women were living longer than white men.

    (Those who want to understand the trends in the US life expectancy should study this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_paradox .)

    It takes time for bad health behaviours to feed through into lower life expectancy. People started getting seriously overweight and obese in the mid-80s in both the UK and USA but there wasn't a significant diabetes problem for about 15 to 20 years after that. Also the opioid epidemic didn't become a big thing until about 2010. I don't think guns are a significant cause of lower life expectancy in the United States, because ultimately only a tiny percentage of people are involved. It's mainly obesity and opioids.
    Guns should be a tiny percentage of people involved, but guns are the single largest killer of American children.

    Not cancer, or road traffic accidents, or accidents in general. Firearms. American children are more likely to die from a firearm than any other cause.

    Now of course children's deaths are not significant numbers compared to adult deaths, but children's deaths especially unnecessary ones can adjust averages more because that is many decades of lives lost per excess death.
    Someone goes into a school and murders 20 children, that's ~1400 years of life expectancy lost right there.
    Yes but most Americans still back the right to keep and bear arms.

    68% of American voters want to retain the 2nd amendment, 46% of Americans even believe that includes the right to personally own and keep a semi automatic rifle
    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-62/
    Thank you Captain Obvious.

    But this isn't a discussion on gun control or opinion polls, its a discussion on life expectancy, and the remarkable fact is that guns do play a significant enough role to show up in death statistics and affect life expectancy. Opinion polls don't change that.

    Its not just school shootings, as common as they may be. A gun in a family home 'for self-defence' is much, much more likely to kill that families child, than it is to kill an intruder.
    Well that is Americans choice, it is not our business to lecture them on their Constitution if they don't want to change it
    Who was lecturing anyone? Nobody had even brought the Constitution into it before you did.

    We were discussing numbers, facts and what was influencing the death rate.

    The fact that you found those facts so disturbing you had to jump in with "yeah but second amendment" goes with the fact you consistently sup the kool aid of American extremists.
    The fact 68% of Americans want to retain the 2nd amendment shows precisely that that is not the view of 'American extremists' but the American majority
    Objectively the way that Americans bear arms is extreme.The purpose of having guns at home wss originally to ensure a "well regulated militia", not to terrify children in school. So the unfettered right to bear arms may be popular, but it is still extreme, and not necessarily what the founding fathers intended at all.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757
    Cicero said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BartholomewRoberts - So what do you think changed in the US, in 2014? Why has US life expectancy declined since then, after increasing in almost every year since the end of WW II?

    By the way, the gap in life expectancy between blacks and whites declined during the same time period. By the early 1980s, black women were living longer than white men.

    (Those who want to understand the trends in the US life expectancy should study this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_paradox .)

    It takes time for bad health behaviours to feed through into lower life expectancy. People started getting seriously overweight and obese in the mid-80s in both the UK and USA but there wasn't a significant diabetes problem for about 15 to 20 years after that. Also the opioid epidemic didn't become a big thing until about 2010. I don't think guns are a significant cause of lower life expectancy in the United States, because ultimately only a tiny percentage of people are involved. It's mainly obesity and opioids.
    Guns should be a tiny percentage of people involved, but guns are the single largest killer of American children.

    Not cancer, or road traffic accidents, or accidents in general. Firearms. American children are more likely to die from a firearm than any other cause.

    Now of course children's deaths are not significant numbers compared to adult deaths, but children's deaths especially unnecessary ones can adjust averages more because that is many decades of lives lost per excess death.
    Someone goes into a school and murders 20 children, that's ~1400 years of life expectancy lost right there.
    Yes but most Americans still back the right to keep and bear arms.

    68% of American voters want to retain the 2nd amendment, 46% of Americans even believe that includes the right to personally own and keep a semi automatic rifle
    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-62/
    Thank you Captain Obvious.

    But this isn't a discussion on gun control or opinion polls, its a discussion on life expectancy, and the remarkable fact is that guns do play a significant enough role to show up in death statistics and affect life expectancy. Opinion polls don't change that.

    Its not just school shootings, as common as they may be. A gun in a family home 'for self-defence' is much, much more likely to kill that families child, than it is to kill an intruder.
    Well that is Americans choice, it is not our business to lecture them on their Constitution if they don't want to change it
    Who was lecturing anyone? Nobody had even brought the Constitution into it before you did.

    We were discussing numbers, facts and what was influencing the death rate.

    The fact that you found those facts so disturbing you had to jump in with "yeah but second amendment" goes with the fact you consistently sup the kool aid of American extremists.
    The fact 68% of Americans want to retain the 2nd amendment shows precisely that that is not the view of 'American extremists' but the American majority
    Objectively the way that Americans bear arms is extreme.The purpose of having guns at home wss originally to ensure a "well regulated militia", not to terrify children in school. So the unfettered right to bear arms may be popular, but it is still extreme, and not necessarily what the founding fathers intended at all.
    And the 'unfettered' right is not popular.
    Though slightly more so than Boris Johnson.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757
    I do isn't realise it was so low; says a fair bit about Japanese culture.

    Japan raises age of consent from 13 to 16 in reform of sex crimes law
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/16/japan-raises-age-of-consent-from-13-to-16-in-reform-of-sex-crimes-law
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757
    Fresh blow to City as WE Soda pulls $7.5bn London IPO
    https://www.ft.com/content/ccfe4c77-72a7-4519-b529-333354c6b4c9
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,238
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BartholomewRoberts - So what do you think changed in the US, in 2014? Why has US life expectancy declined since then, after increasing in almost every year since the end of WW II?

    By the way, the gap in life expectancy between blacks and whites declined during the same time period. By the early 1980s, black women were living longer than white men.

    (Those who want to understand the trends in the US life expectancy should study this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_paradox .)

    It takes time for bad health behaviours to feed through into lower life expectancy. People started getting seriously overweight and obese in the mid-80s in both the UK and USA but there wasn't a significant diabetes problem for about 15 to 20 years after that. Also the opioid epidemic didn't become a big thing until about 2010. I don't think guns are a significant cause of lower life expectancy in the United States, because ultimately only a tiny percentage of people are involved. It's mainly obesity and opioids.
    Guns should be a tiny percentage of people involved, but guns are the single largest killer of American children.

    Not cancer, or road traffic accidents, or accidents in general. Firearms. American children are more likely to die from a firearm than any other cause.

    Now of course children's deaths are not significant numbers compared to adult deaths, but children's deaths especially unnecessary ones can adjust averages more because that is many decades of lives lost per excess death.
    Someone goes into a school and murders 20 children, that's ~1400 years of life expectancy lost right there.
    Yes but most Americans still back the right to keep and bear arms.

    68% of American voters want to retain the 2nd amendment, 46% of Americans even believe that includes the right to personally own and keep a semi automatic rifle
    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-62/
    Thank you Captain Obvious.

    But this isn't a discussion on gun control or opinion polls, its a discussion on life expectancy, and the remarkable fact is that guns do play a significant enough role to show up in death statistics and affect life expectancy. Opinion polls don't change that.

    Its not just school shootings, as common as they may be. A gun in a family home 'for self-defence' is much, much more likely to kill that families child, than it is to kill an intruder.
    Well that is Americans choice, it is not our business to lecture them on their Constitution if they don't want to change it
    Who was lecturing anyone? Nobody had even brought the Constitution into it before you did.

    We were discussing numbers, facts and what was influencing the death rate.

    The fact that you found those facts so disturbing you had to jump in with "yeah but second amendment" goes with the fact you consistently sup the kool aid of American extremists.
    The fact 68% of Americans want to retain the 2nd amendment shows precisely that that is not the view of 'American extremists' but the American majority
    Do 68% of Americans think it is ok for Americans to own personal nuclear weapons?

    Or do they think there should be some limitations on the rights of citizens to bear arms?
    I always liked the theory it was a typo and the intention was “the right to arm bears”.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,440
    Nigelb said:

    Fresh blow to City as WE Soda pulls $7.5bn London IPO
    https://www.ft.com/content/ccfe4c77-72a7-4519-b529-333354c6b4c9

    I doubt this is about London, the parent of wesoda - constantly change their minds on big projects to put it mildly
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BartholomewRoberts - So what do you think changed in the US, in 2014? Why has US life expectancy declined since then, after increasing in almost every year since the end of WW II?

    By the way, the gap in life expectancy between blacks and whites declined during the same time period. By the early 1980s, black women were living longer than white men.

    (Those who want to understand the trends in the US life expectancy should study this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_paradox .)

    It takes time for bad health behaviours to feed through into lower life expectancy. People started getting seriously overweight and obese in the mid-80s in both the UK and USA but there wasn't a significant diabetes problem for about 15 to 20 years after that. Also the opioid epidemic didn't become a big thing until about 2010. I don't think guns are a significant cause of lower life expectancy in the United States, because ultimately only a tiny percentage of people are involved. It's mainly obesity and opioids.
    Guns should be a tiny percentage of people involved, but guns are the single largest killer of American children.

    Not cancer, or road traffic accidents, or accidents in general. Firearms. American children are more likely to die from a firearm than any other cause.

    Now of course children's deaths are not significant numbers compared to adult deaths, but children's deaths especially unnecessary ones can adjust averages more because that is many decades of lives lost per excess death.
    Someone goes into a school and murders 20 children, that's ~1400 years of life expectancy lost right there.
    Yes but most Americans still back the right to keep and bear arms.

    68% of American voters want to retain the 2nd amendment, 46% of Americans even believe that includes the right to personally own and keep a semi automatic rifle
    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-62/
    Thank you Captain Obvious.

    But this isn't a discussion on gun control or opinion polls, its a discussion on life expectancy, and the remarkable fact is that guns do play a significant enough role to show up in death statistics and affect life expectancy. Opinion polls don't change that.

    Its not just school shootings, as common as they may be. A gun in a family home 'for self-defence' is much, much more likely to kill that families child, than it is to kill an intruder.
    Well that is Americans choice, it is not our business to lecture them on their Constitution if they don't want to change it
    Who was lecturing anyone? Nobody had even brought the Constitution into it before you did.

    We were discussing numbers, facts and what was influencing the death rate.

    The fact that you found those facts so disturbing you had to jump in with "yeah but second amendment" goes with the fact you consistently sup the kool aid of American extremists.
    The fact 68% of Americans want to retain the 2nd amendment shows precisely that that is not the view of 'American extremists' but the American majority
    Do 68% of Americans think it is ok for Americans to own personal nuclear weapons?

    Or do they think there should be some limitations on the rights of citizens to bear arms?
    I always liked the theory it was a typo and the intention was “the right to arm bears”.
    Or better still "the right to bare arms". In the heat.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,572
    Andy_JS said:

    Festus Akinbusoye, police & crime commissioner for Bedfordshire, chosen as Con candidate for the Mid Beds by-election.

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1669451466111631361

    Nadine very carefully says “next MP”, not by-election candidate. I don’t think there will be one.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,572
    edited June 2023

    Rogueywon said:

    The political demise of Johnson reminds me of the collapse of a Ponzi scheme.

    When a big Ponzi falls over, the investors fall into a few different categories. First, you've got the winners. Ponzis do have winners - those who got in early and got out early. They make themselves scarce and emphasise how absolutely tip-top fine it seemed to them all along (Rees-Mogg). Then you've got the average investors, who lost a bit but not more than they could handle. They shake their heads and walk away, poorer but wiser (Sunak and most of the Conservative MPs). Then you've got those who lost enough to hurt, who rage against the fraudster behind the scheme and try to enact vengeance upon him (Philip Davies).

    And finally, you have those who lost the most. The ones who know deep down that after this, they're out on the street and digging through bins for the remnants of half-eaten kebabs. They deny that they've been conned. They deny that any fraud has happened. They plead, desperately, that the fraudster is a good man and that their money must be safe with him. They rage against the police, against HMRC, against the FBI, against whoever else is investigating, because it's their fault that the whole thing is falling apart. We know who's in that category.

    Like a Great American once said - there's a sucker born every minute.

    Rogueywon said:

    The political demise of Johnson reminds me of the collapse of a Ponzi scheme.

    When a big Ponzi falls over, the investors fall into a few different categories. First, you've got the winners. Ponzis do have winners - those who got in early and got out early. They make themselves scarce and emphasise how absolutely tip-top fine it seemed to them all along (Rees-Mogg). Then you've got the average investors, who lost a bit but not more than they could handle. They shake their heads and walk away, poorer but wiser (Sunak and most of the Conservative MPs). Then you've got those who lost enough to hurt, who rage against the fraudster behind the scheme and try to enact vengeance upon him (Philip Davies).

    And finally, you have those who lost the most. The ones who know deep down that after this, they're out on the street and digging through bins for the remnants of half-eaten kebabs. They deny that they've been conned. They deny that any fraud has happened. They plead, desperately, that the fraudster is a good man and that their money must be safe with him. They rage against the police, against HMRC, against the FBI, against whoever else is investigating, because it's their fault that the whole thing is falling apart. We know who's in that category.

    Like a Great American once said - there's a sucker born every minute.
    To find as many as Johnson did in just a few years, they were clearly being created faster than that….

    Just simple maths.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,572
    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, EDF just sent me an email telling me that my per KWh price is dropping 20%.

    That must have given you a shock
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,572

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Selby Tories picked Michael Naughton as candidate for their by election but one candidate who lost the selection battle wants a re run
    https://twitter.com/tomorrowsmps/status/1669478406256205825?s=20

    He may have a case, since the boundaries are not the same.
    Is this yet another indication, of the seeming near-total dis-functionality of the Tory Party?
    Not sure it is. There are always problems with boundary changes and selections, and a by-election just adds to the mix.
    The boundary change don’t apply to the by election, so the candidate should be selected based on the current boundaries.
    That appears to be the case. Selecting candidate based on NEW boundaries certainly does not seem kosher for by-election for OLD constituency.

    This is the kind of thing party committee officers - and hacks - generally are pretty aware of, in my experience.

    Back when WA State had precinct party caucuses, yours truly was responsible for calculating Democratic delegate allocations from precinct to district level and from there to state convention, based on last presidential election. AND every decade factoring in redistricting of state legislative and congressional boundaries.

    So am rather baffled WHY the Selby Con Assoc is in this situation? And how frequent is this type of confusion and/or kerfluffle re: parliamentary constituency boundary changes?
    The final new boundaries aren’t even published yet, let alone agreed. Surely the selection has jumped a couple of guns?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,676
    Cicero said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BartholomewRoberts - So what do you think changed in the US, in 2014? Why has US life expectancy declined since then, after increasing in almost every year since the end of WW II?

    By the way, the gap in life expectancy between blacks and whites declined during the same time period. By the early 1980s, black women were living longer than white men.

    (Those who want to understand the trends in the US life expectancy should study this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_paradox .)

    It takes time for bad health behaviours to feed through into lower life expectancy. People started getting seriously overweight and obese in the mid-80s in both the UK and USA but there wasn't a significant diabetes problem for about 15 to 20 years after that. Also the opioid epidemic didn't become a big thing until about 2010. I don't think guns are a significant cause of lower life expectancy in the United States, because ultimately only a tiny percentage of people are involved. It's mainly obesity and opioids.
    Guns should be a tiny percentage of people involved, but guns are the single largest killer of American children.

    Not cancer, or road traffic accidents, or accidents in general. Firearms. American children are more likely to die from a firearm than any other cause.

    Now of course children's deaths are not significant numbers compared to adult deaths, but children's deaths especially unnecessary ones can adjust averages more because that is many decades of lives lost per excess death.
    Someone goes into a school and murders 20 children, that's ~1400 years of life expectancy lost right there.
    Yes but most Americans still back the right to keep and bear arms.

    68% of American voters want to retain the 2nd amendment, 46% of Americans even believe that includes the right to personally own and keep a semi automatic rifle
    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-62/
    Thank you Captain Obvious.

    But this isn't a discussion on gun control or opinion polls, its a discussion on life expectancy, and the remarkable fact is that guns do play a significant enough role to show up in death statistics and affect life expectancy. Opinion polls don't change that.

    Its not just school shootings, as common as they may be. A gun in a family home 'for self-defence' is much, much more likely to kill that families child, than it is to kill an intruder.
    Well that is Americans choice, it is not our business to lecture them on their Constitution if they don't want to change it
    Who was lecturing anyone? Nobody had even brought the Constitution into it before you did.

    We were discussing numbers, facts and what was influencing the death rate.

    The fact that you found those facts so disturbing you had to jump in with "yeah but second amendment" goes with the fact you consistently sup the kool aid of American extremists.
    The fact 68% of Americans want to retain the 2nd amendment shows precisely that that is not the view of 'American extremists' but the American majority
    Objectively the way that Americans bear arms is extreme.The purpose of having guns at home wss originally to ensure a "well regulated militia", not to terrify children in school. So the unfettered right to bear arms may be popular, but it is still extreme, and not necessarily what the founding fathers intended at all.
    True, but do you think the US Government would be happy with the militia option? I don't.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,731
    Pulpstar said:
    A few years off, but a massive breakthrough if true.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,077
    Morning all.

    Good to see Carol Vorderman exposing the lies and hypocrisy of Wes Streeting.

    Some of you may think I'm just a pro left stooge. Not a bit of it. I loathe political corruption in all its forms and although I want Labour to win the next election I expect it will be a short time before they're getting corrupt like the current Conservatives.


    https://twitter.com/carolvorders/status/1669356836175351809


  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,849
    Cicero said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BartholomewRoberts - So what do you think changed in the US, in 2014? Why has US life expectancy declined since then, after increasing in almost every year since the end of WW II?

    By the way, the gap in life expectancy between blacks and whites declined during the same time period. By the early 1980s, black women were living longer than white men.

    (Those who want to understand the trends in the US life expectancy should study this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_paradox .)

    It takes time for bad health behaviours to feed through into lower life expectancy. People started getting seriously overweight and obese in the mid-80s in both the UK and USA but there wasn't a significant diabetes problem for about 15 to 20 years after that. Also the opioid epidemic didn't become a big thing until about 2010. I don't think guns are a significant cause of lower life expectancy in the United States, because ultimately only a tiny percentage of people are involved. It's mainly obesity and opioids.
    Guns should be a tiny percentage of people involved, but guns are the single largest killer of American children.

    Not cancer, or road traffic accidents, or accidents in general. Firearms. American children are more likely to die from a firearm than any other cause.

    Now of course children's deaths are not significant numbers compared to adult deaths, but children's deaths especially unnecessary ones can adjust averages more because that is many decades of lives lost per excess death.
    Someone goes into a school and murders 20 children, that's ~1400 years of life expectancy lost right there.
    Yes but most Americans still back the right to keep and bear arms.

    68% of American voters want to retain the 2nd amendment, 46% of Americans even believe that includes the right to personally own and keep a semi automatic rifle
    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-62/
    Thank you Captain Obvious.

    But this isn't a discussion on gun control or opinion polls, its a discussion on life expectancy, and the remarkable fact is that guns do play a significant enough role to show up in death statistics and affect life expectancy. Opinion polls don't change that.

    Its not just school shootings, as common as they may be. A gun in a family home 'for self-defence' is much, much more likely to kill that families child, than it is to kill an intruder.
    Well that is Americans choice, it is not our business to lecture them on their Constitution if they don't want to change it
    Who was lecturing anyone? Nobody had even brought the Constitution into it before you did.

    We were discussing numbers, facts and what was influencing the death rate.

    The fact that you found those facts so disturbing you had to jump in with "yeah but second amendment" goes with the fact you consistently sup the kool aid of American extremists.
    The fact 68% of Americans want to retain the 2nd amendment shows precisely that that is not the view of 'American extremists' but the American majority
    Objectively the way that Americans bear arms is extreme.The purpose of having guns at home wss originally to ensure a "well regulated militia", not to terrify children in school. So the unfettered right to bear
    arms may be popular, but it is still extreme, and not necessarily what the founding fathers intended at all.
    Rather depends on the interpretation of that comma.



  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,731
    Heathener said:

    Morning all.

    Good to see Carol Vorderman exposing the lies and hypocrisy of Wes Streeting.

    Some of you may think I'm just a pro left stooge. Not a bit of it. I loathe political corruption in all its forms and although I want Labour to win the next election I expect it will be a short time before they're getting corrupt like the current Conservatives.


    https://twitter.com/carolvorders/status/1669356836175351809


    Both parties see the future of UK medicine as "dentistification".

    They see private involvement as a way of tackling backlogs, but the reality is by doing so they hollow out the NHS service to the point that it is no longer viable. It isn't a serious long term plan but rather a sugar rush that sets up future failure.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,753
    Nigelb said:

    Fresh blow to City as WE Soda pulls $7.5bn London IPO
    https://www.ft.com/content/ccfe4c77-72a7-4519-b529-333354c6b4c9

    fizzled out
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,627
    edited June 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Fresh blow to City as WE Soda pulls $7.5bn London IPO
    https://www.ft.com/content/ccfe4c77-72a7-4519-b529-333354c6b4c9

    Worth reading another FT article on that:

    https://www.ft.com/content/29fa2998-186b-4178-a860-6a3cbd3d5059

    TLDR: they were floating for $7.5 billion but the market would only offer two-thirds of that, while the underwriters would only pick up at most $800 million.

    Don't know how accurate the claim is, but if it is correct you can see why that wouldn't work.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,369
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fresh blow to City as WE Soda pulls $7.5bn London IPO
    https://www.ft.com/content/ccfe4c77-72a7-4519-b529-333354c6b4c9

    Worth reading another FT article on that:

    https://www.ft.com/content/29fa2998-186b-4178-a860-6a3cbd3d5059

    TLDR: they were floating for $7.5 billion but the market would only offer two-thirds of that, while the underwriters would only pick up at most $800 million.

    Don't know how accurate the claim is, but if it is correct you can see why that wouldn't work.
    They were interviewing the CEO on R4 yesterday after this news and was interesting as they played their interview with him from a few weeks ago where he was very clear that London was best option as they understand the business better and as not a tech co the valuation will not be affected.

    The interview yesterday was very much him being questioned about whether maybe their expectations of their valuation might have been too high.

    Quite difficult for the CEO to argue against that as he had been shouting about how London would value it correctly just recently.

    I expect they will have a sneak peek to see if they can list somewhere in the future and get a higher valuation but they’ve boxed themselves in a bit.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,462
    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Morning all.

    Good to see Carol Vorderman exposing the lies and hypocrisy of Wes Streeting.

    Some of you may think I'm just a pro left stooge. Not a bit of it. I loathe political corruption in all its forms and although I want Labour to win the next election I expect it will be a short time before they're getting corrupt like the current Conservatives.


    https://twitter.com/carolvorders/status/1669356836175351809


    Both parties see the future of UK medicine as "dentistification".

    They see private involvement as a way of tackling backlogs, but the reality is by doing so they hollow out the NHS service to the point that it is no longer viable. It isn't a serious long term plan but rather a sugar rush that sets up future failure.
    Time for some heretical talk:

    Is the NHS, as it is constructed at the moment, inviable anyway? Increased funding *may* help a little (if spent wisely), but the demand for NHS services seems to outpace any feasible funding.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Pulpstar said:
    The death of oil if true
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,462
    Heathener said:

    Morning all.

    Good to see Carol Vorderman exposing the lies and hypocrisy of Wes Streeting.

    Some of you may think I'm just a pro left stooge. Not a bit of it. I loathe political corruption in all its forms and although I want Labour to win the next election I expect it will be a short time before they're getting corrupt like the current Conservatives.

    https://twitter.com/carolvorders/status/1669356836175351809

    From that tweet, it seems like Vorderman made a claim that was untrue, she has climbed down and apologised, and converted her claim to something a lot more woolly.

    I don't know if Streeting has lied about this, as I haven't actually seen what he's supposed to have lied about; but Vorderman doesn't come out of that well.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,731

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Morning all.

    Good to see Carol Vorderman exposing the lies and hypocrisy of Wes Streeting.

    Some of you may think I'm just a pro left stooge. Not a bit of it. I loathe political corruption in all its forms and although I want Labour to win the next election I expect it will be a short time before they're getting corrupt like the current Conservatives.


    https://twitter.com/carolvorders/status/1669356836175351809


    Both parties see the future of UK medicine as "dentistification".

    They see private involvement as a way of tackling backlogs, but the reality is by doing so they hollow out the NHS service to the point that it is no longer viable. It isn't a serious long term plan but rather a sugar rush that sets up future failure.
    Time for some heretical talk:

    Is the NHS, as it is constructed at the moment, inviable anyway? Increased funding *may* help a little (if spent wisely), but the demand for NHS services seems to outpace any feasible funding.
    Sure, as I pointed out in my header of 5 years ago, which I think has aged well.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/07/01/three-score-and-ten-has-the-nhs-reached-the-end-of-its-natural-life/

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,226
    If this is true then China has big problems:

    When Xi Jinping once enthused about the virtues of a higher education, he told prospective students that university was a “place not just for academic studies but for seeking truth”.

    The truth is, however, is that many Chinese students are now reluctant to leave university at all, seeking to fail their finals in an attempt to avoid entering a workplace in which jobs are increasingly hard to find.

    Even in a nation where failing to graduate on time was rare and considered to be a social stigma, many are trying to avoid graduating at all this year as youth unemployment hits record highs.

    ...

    The unemployment rate for the 16-24 age group hit a new high of 20.8 per cent in May, up from 20.4 per cent in April, according to the latest official data. Yet a record 11.58 million college graduates are entering the job market this summer, up by 820,000 from 2022.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chinese-students-fail-exams-avoid-looking-for-a-job-36s0nrhtj
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379

    Good morning from Douglas

    On our way home this afternoon from a lovely holiday with fantastic weather and have completed the whole TT course including the mountain road, albeit in our car

    We have only had the hotel wifi so really good to avoid the toxic Johnson and his sycophants continuing to debase honesty and integrity

    Sunak has a moment on monday to become his own PM and vote for the report and not abstain by being somewher else

    We have the digital mail because of my wife's love of the puzzles but even she was angry with its coverage today and we discussed cancelling it, but as ever a wise lady she responded saying 'at least we can see what the enemy is saying'

    Those words should terrify the conservative party

    A telling post Big_G.

    Safe journey home!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,003

    Good morning from Douglas

    On our way home this afternoon from a lovely holiday with fantastic weather and have completed the whole TT course including the mountain road, albeit in our car

    We have only had the hotel wifi so really good to avoid the toxic Johnson and his sycophants continuing to debase honesty and integrity

    Sunak has a moment on monday to become his own PM and vote for the report and not abstain by being somewher else

    We have the digital mail because of my wife's love of the puzzles but even she was angry with its coverage today and we discussed cancelling it, but as ever a wise lady she responded saying 'at least we can see what the enemy is saying'

    Those words should terrify the conservative party

    Nice to hear G, we used to go to Isle of Man every year for holidays when I was a boy. Wonderful memories and usually got good weather. We got overnight ferry from Ardrossan which is long gone.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757
    Pulpstar said:
    Experience suggests caution on the predicted timescale, but it's quite likely true. Lots of progress being made on all kinds of novel battery technologies, but readiness for economic mass production is inherently unpredictable.

    The difference between Japan, the US, China, S Korea, Germany ... and us, is that the first five persistently spend billions in its pursuit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003

    If this is true then China has big problems:

    When Xi Jinping once enthused about the virtues of a higher education, he told prospective students that university was a “place not just for academic studies but for seeking truth”.

    The truth is, however, is that many Chinese students are now reluctant to leave university at all, seeking to fail their finals in an attempt to avoid entering a workplace in which jobs are increasingly hard to find.

    Even in a nation where failing to graduate on time was rare and considered to be a social stigma, many are trying to avoid graduating at all this year as youth unemployment hits record highs.

    ...

    The unemployment rate for the 16-24 age group hit a new high of 20.8 per cent in May, up from 20.4 per cent in April, according to the latest official data. Yet a record 11.58 million college graduates are entering the job market this summer, up by 820,000 from 2022.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chinese-students-fail-exams-avoid-looking-for-a-job-36s0nrhtj

    Perhaps Jeremy Corbyn should try and stand for the leadership of the Chinese Communist Party now he cannot stand for Labour again? Looks like plenty of disaffected students and graduates there too for him to stir up
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,650
    Pulpstar said:
    We are still in the infancy of battery technology. My Tesla feels like a massive multi-generational leap forward compared to the Leaf. But we're still in the piston era of airliners dreaming on non-stop UK to Australia flights...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    edited June 2023

    Good morning from Douglas

    On our way home this afternoon from a lovely holiday with fantastic weather and have completed the whole TT course including the mountain road, albeit in our car

    We have only had the hotel wifi so really good to avoid the toxic Johnson and his sycophants continuing to debase honesty and integrity

    Sunak has a moment on monday to become his own PM and vote for the report and not abstain by being somewher else

    We have the digital mail because of my wife's love of the puzzles but even she was angry with its coverage today and we discussed cancelling it, but as ever a wise lady she responded saying 'at least we can see what the enemy is saying'

    Those words should terrify the conservative party

    Why should your wife hating the Daily Mail but loving their crossword puzzles 'terrify the Conservative Party?'

    Sounds like you had a nice break in the Isle of Man anyway
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,226
    Fishing said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Morning all.

    Good to see Carol Vorderman exposing the lies and hypocrisy of Wes Streeting.

    Some of you may think I'm just a pro left stooge. Not a bit of it. I loathe political corruption in all its forms and although I want Labour to win the next election I expect it will be a short time before they're getting corrupt like the current Conservatives.


    https://twitter.com/carolvorders/status/1669356836175351809


    Both parties see the future of UK medicine as "dentistification".

    They see private involvement as a way of tackling backlogs, but the reality is by doing so they hollow out the NHS service to the point that it is no longer viable. It isn't a serious long term plan but rather a sugar rush that sets up future failure.
    Time for some heretical talk:

    Is the NHS, as it is constructed at the moment, inviable anyway? Increased funding *may* help a little (if spent wisely), but the demand for NHS services seems to outpace any feasible funding.
    It will probably become unviable soon as long as we pretend to old people that they can be kept alive forever no matter how complex and expensive their conditions are and that the taxpayer should bear the consequences of stupid lifestyle choices that people make such as overeating, smoking or binge drinking.

    But that's even more heretical than your post, I'm afraid.
    The amount spent in giving sick oldies a few more months of low quality life would have a better rate of return if spent in their earlier decades on education / training / housing.

    Of course if it was spent earlier in their lives many would still want it spent again when they became sick oldies.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,022
    malcolmg said:

    Good morning from Douglas

    On our way home this afternoon from a lovely holiday with fantastic weather and have completed the whole TT course including the mountain road, albeit in our car

    We have only had the hotel wifi so really good to avoid the toxic Johnson and his sycophants continuing to debase honesty and integrity

    Sunak has a moment on monday to become his own PM and vote for the report and not abstain by being somewher else

    We have the digital mail because of my wife's love of the puzzles but even she was angry with its coverage today and we discussed cancelling it, but as ever a wise lady she responded saying 'at least we can see what the enemy is saying'

    Those words should terrify the conservative party

    Nice to hear G, we used to go to Isle of Man every year for holidays when I was a boy. Wonderful memories and usually got good weather. We got overnight ferry from Ardrossan which is long gone.
    Thanks Malc - we sailed on the sea cat from Liverpool in just over 2 and a half hours

    It has been good to be away from the Westminster physco drama
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,650

    Good morning from Douglas

    On our way home this afternoon from a lovely holiday with fantastic weather and have completed the whole TT course including the mountain road, albeit in our car

    We have only had the hotel wifi so really good to avoid the toxic Johnson and his sycophants continuing to debase honesty and integrity

    Sunak has a moment on monday to become his own PM and vote for the report and not abstain by being somewher else

    We have the digital mail because of my wife's love of the puzzles but even she was angry with its coverage today and we discussed cancelling it, but as ever a wise lady she responded saying 'at least we can see what the enemy is saying'

    Those words should terrify the conservative party

    The Isle of Man is a beautiful place - I wouldn't want to live there, but to visit it is fabulous.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    Crispin Odey's hedge fund to be broken up
    https://www.ft.com/content/3256ba64-437f-4484-8012-1776194cfe23
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fresh blow to City as WE Soda pulls $7.5bn London IPO
    https://www.ft.com/content/ccfe4c77-72a7-4519-b529-333354c6b4c9

    Worth reading another FT article on that:

    https://www.ft.com/content/29fa2998-186b-4178-a860-6a3cbd3d5059

    TLDR: they were floating for $7.5 billion but the market would only offer two-thirds of that, while the underwriters would only pick up at most $800 million.

    Don't know how accurate the claim is, but if it is correct you can see why that wouldn't work.
    To be fair, it's a global problem. Years of ultra low interest rates has meant private equity has offered valuations well in excess of what's generally attainable from stock market listing.
    So companies' expectations are inflated.

    That might start to unwind, as it doesn't look as though higher interest rates are going away anytime soon.

    But the story does put into context the claims made here that 'London is back', when the listing was originally announced.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,650
    Can I give top marks for the Ooh Ah Daily Star's use of "Wazzock" on its front page? Anything that both ridicules the liar Boris! and promotes Lancashire vernacular is a Good Thing.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,226
    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:
    Experience suggests caution on the predicted timescale, but it's quite likely true. Lots of progress being made on all kinds of novel battery technologies, but readiness for economic mass production is inherently unpredictable.

    The difference between Japan, the US, China, S Korea, Germany ... and us, is that the first five persistently spend billions in its pursuit.
    In the UK people want more immediate consumption than rather long term investment and the City wants more immediate profit rather than long term production.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 2,978

    Good morning from Douglas

    On our way home this afternoon from a lovely holiday with fantastic weather and have completed the whole TT course including the mountain road, albeit in our car

    We have only had the hotel wifi so really good to avoid the toxic Johnson and his sycophants continuing to debase honesty and integrity

    Sunak has a moment on monday to become his own PM and vote for the report and not abstain by being somewher else

    We have the digital mail because of my wife's love of the puzzles but even she was angry with its coverage today and we discussed cancelling it, but as ever a wise lady she responded saying 'at least we can see what the enemy is saying'

    Those words should terrify the conservative party

    Meanwhile in Surrey Heath another two gains for the Lib Dems in the heart of Torydom on earth.

    It seems like the Tories have finally alienated their core voters beyond the point of no return.

  • CiceroCicero Posts: 2,978
    edited June 2023
    HYUFD said:
    Whatever Mr. Odious' personal behaviour, it seems like this is pay back for a lot more than merely being allegedly a creepy groper.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,551

    Can I give top marks for the Ooh Ah Daily Star's use of "Wazzock" on its front page? Anything that both ridicules the liar Boris! and promotes Lancashire vernacular is a Good Thing.

    It is one of those days when hell freezes over when a Daily Star headline is factually more accurate and astute than most of the other red top comics.

    On the downside, reading these headlines which scream of Johnson's innocence, his client journalists really are telling us black is white and white is black. This is worrying for all of us who hoped Johnson',s malign influence on the body politic was once and for all over. He still has his influential cheerleaders.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,022
    HYUFD said:

    Good morning from Douglas

    On our way home this afternoon from a lovely holiday with fantastic weather and have completed the whole TT course including the mountain road, albeit in our car

    We have only had the hotel wifi so really good to avoid the toxic Johnson and his sycophants continuing to debase honesty and integrity

    Sunak has a moment on monday to become his own PM and vote for the report and not abstain by being somewher else

    We have the digital mail because of my wife's love of the puzzles but even she was angry with its coverage today and we discussed cancelling it, but as ever a wise lady she responded saying 'at least we can see what the enemy is saying'

    Those words should terrify the conservative party

    Why should your wife hating the Daily Mail but loving their crossword puzzles 'terrify the Conservative Party?'

    Sounds like you had a nice break in the Isle of Man anyway
    You really are strange

    She didn't say she hated the mail those are your words

    She was angry with the Johnson coverage but suggested if we retain it at least we can see what the enemy is saying

    Its coverage this morning is the enemy of honesty, decency and integrity something my wife and millions others hold dear but it seems that you do not recognise it sadly
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,420

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BartholomewRoberts - So what do you think changed in the US, in 2014? Why has US life expectancy declined since then, after increasing in almost every year since the end of WW II?

    By the way, the gap in life expectancy between blacks and whites declined during the same time period. By the early 1980s, black women were living longer than white men.

    (Those who want to understand the trends in the US life expectancy should study this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_paradox .)

    It takes time for bad health behaviours to feed through into lower life expectancy. People started getting seriously overweight and obese in the mid-80s in both the UK and USA but there wasn't a significant diabetes problem for about 15 to 20 years after that. Also the opioid epidemic didn't become a big thing until about 2010. I don't think guns are a significant cause of lower life expectancy in the United States, because ultimately only a tiny percentage of people are involved. It's mainly obesity and opioids.
    Guns should be a tiny percentage of people involved, but guns are the single largest killer of American children.

    Not cancer, or road traffic accidents, or accidents in general. Firearms. American children are more likely to die from a firearm than any other cause.

    Now of course children's deaths are not significant numbers compared to adult deaths, but children's deaths especially unnecessary ones can adjust averages more because that is many decades of lives lost per excess death.
    Someone goes into a school and murders 20 children, that's ~1400 years of life expectancy lost right there.
    Yes but most Americans still back the right to keep and bear arms.

    68% of American voters want to retain the 2nd amendment, 46% of Americans even believe that includes the right to personally own and keep a semi automatic rifle
    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-62/
    Thank you Captain Obvious.

    But this isn't a discussion on gun control or opinion polls, its a discussion on life expectancy, and the remarkable fact is that guns do play a significant enough role to show up in death statistics and affect life expectancy. Opinion polls don't change that.

    Its not just school shootings, as common as they may be. A gun in a family home 'for self-defence' is much, much more likely to kill that families child, than it is to kill an intruder.
    Well that is Americans choice, it is not our business to lecture them on their Constitution if they don't want to change it
    Who was lecturing anyone? Nobody had even brought the Constitution into it before you did.

    We were discussing numbers, facts and what was influencing the death rate.

    The fact that you found those facts so disturbing you had to jump in with "yeah but second amendment" goes with the fact you consistently sup the kool aid of American extremists.
    The fact 68% of Americans want to retain the 2nd amendment shows precisely that that is not the view of 'American extremists' but the American majority
    Do 68% of Americans think it is ok for Americans to own personal nuclear weapons?

    Or do they think there should be some limitations on the rights of citizens to bear arms?
    They could possibly club together to use a Davy Crockett?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)
    That's a bit of a Gay Vegan Woke nuclear weapon.

    Surely they would want a Proper Massive Weapon like - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_17_nuclear_bomb
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,650
    Cicero said:

    Good morning from Douglas

    On our way home this afternoon from a lovely holiday with fantastic weather and have completed the whole TT course including the mountain road, albeit in our car

    We have only had the hotel wifi so really good to avoid the toxic Johnson and his sycophants continuing to debase honesty and integrity

    Sunak has a moment on monday to become his own PM and vote for the report and not abstain by being somewher else

    We have the digital mail because of my wife's love of the puzzles but even she was angry with its coverage today and we discussed cancelling it, but as ever a wise lady she responded saying 'at least we can see what the enemy is saying'

    Those words should terrify the conservative party

    Meanwhile in Surrey Heath another two gains for the Lib Dems in the heart of Torydom on earth.

    It seems like the Tories have finally alienated their core voters beyond the point of no return.

    Here is what I don't understand. Tory voters consider themselves to be moral. They are aghast at the government - its crayon policies to kill refugees as much as its mortgage catastrophe. And then we have Boris!

    They have shown that they are motivated and organised, willing to vote as required to punish the party. Instead of thinking "lets not do the bad thing", we get amoral lickspittles like HY prepared to defend anything, call the sky green and denounce anyone insisting it is blue, deride any objectors as not true Tories.

    All this is doing is pushing an even firmer determination on voters to remove the government from office. Anyone see Newsnight last night? The ever scary VD in the chain, interviewing the Tory MP for Bassetlaw. Instead of fighting for his constituents he was on the "sky is green" pitch, raging against the Boris! report.

    VD managed to restrain herself from laughing, but did have to keep pulling him back to reality, and "have you even read the report???".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    edited June 2023
    Cicero said:

    Good morning from Douglas

    On our way home this afternoon from a lovely holiday with fantastic weather and have completed the whole TT course including the mountain road, albeit in our car

    We have only had the hotel wifi so really good to avoid the toxic Johnson and his sycophants continuing to debase honesty and integrity

    Sunak has a moment on monday to become his own PM and vote for the report and not abstain by being somewher else

    We have the digital mail because of my wife's love of the puzzles but even she was angry with its coverage today and we discussed cancelling it, but as ever a wise lady she responded saying 'at least we can see what the enemy is saying'

    Those words should terrify the conservative party

    Meanwhile in Surrey Heath another two gains for the Lib Dems in the heart of Torydom on earth.

    It seems like the Tories have finally alienated their core voters beyond the point of no return.

    LDs always gain council by elections. However Sunak still leads Starmer as preferred PM in the bluewall with Redfield, even if Starmer leads Sunak as preferred PM in the UK overall now.

    While wealthy voters in Surrey may vote LD locally (not just to protest against Brexit but also as a NIMBY protest vote against new housing), a general election is a different matter. For if they elect a LD MP who votes to make Starmer PM and put Labour in government that means higher taxes for them. So I expect Sunak's Tories to do better in Surrey at the general election than local elections would suggest, given the Tories don't control a single district council in Surrey anymore except Reigate
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,650
    Sean_F said:

    Many thanks for everyones’ kind words yesterday. To anyone who has the time, I’d recommend doing a research higher degree. It wasn’t just interesting in itself, it really helped clarify for me how to construct a lengthy argument. You’re entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts. You can’t bullshit, you can’t wing it, and every assertion you make that is not common knowledge has to be supported with a reference.

    Sorry, did glance at it but didn't respond. A massive personal achievement which much have you grinning from ear to ear!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,551

    HYUFD said:

    Good morning from Douglas

    On our way home this afternoon from a lovely holiday with fantastic weather and have completed the whole TT course including the mountain road, albeit in our car

    We have only had the hotel wifi so really good to avoid the toxic Johnson and his sycophants continuing to debase honesty and integrity

    Sunak has a moment on monday to become his own PM and vote for the report and not abstain by being somewher else

    We have the digital mail because of my wife's love of the puzzles but even she was angry with its coverage today and we discussed cancelling it, but as ever a wise lady she responded saying 'at least we can see what the enemy is saying'

    Those words should terrify the conservative party

    Why should your wife hating the Daily Mail but loving their crossword puzzles 'terrify the Conservative Party?'

    Sounds like you had a nice break in the Isle of Man anyway
    You really are strange

    She didn't say she hated the mail those are your words

    She was angry with the Johnson coverage but suggested if we retain it at least we can see what the enemy is saying

    Its coverage this morning is the enemy of honesty, decency and integrity something my wife and millions others hold dear but it seems that you do not recognise it sadly
    Client journalist whoppas are what keeps Johnson going. Harri was at it on QT last night. Is he is still on Johnson's payroll or is he merely utterly deluded?

  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,761
    Bellshill by-election result (15th June 2023):

    Labour 51.8% (+13.0)
    SNP 27.1% (-13.7)
    Conservatives 8.5% (-5.1)
    British Unionist Party 4.3% (n/a)
    Alba 3.9% (+1.7)
    Greens 1.6% (n/a)
    Liberal Democrats 1.2% (n/a)
    Scottish Family Party 1.1% (n/a)
    Freedom Alliance 0.3% (n/a)
    UKIP 0.3% (n/a)

    The number of first preference votes polled for each candidate was:

    Joseph Budd, Scottish National Party (SNP) – 753
    Colin Cameron, Scottish Conservative and Unionist – 236
    John Arthur Henry Cole, Scottish Liberal Democrats – 34
    Leo Francis Lanahan, Scottish Family Party: Pro-Family, Pro-Marriage, Pro-Life - 30
    John Marshall, Alba Party for Independence – 107
    Anne McCrory, Scottish Labour Party – 1,440
    Rosemary McGowan, Scottish Greens - 44
    Simona Panaitescu, Freedom Alliance. Stop the Great Reset – 7
    Billy Ross, British Unionists – For a Better Britain - 120
    Neil Wilson, UK Independence Party - 7
    Total of first preference votes: 2,778

    The percentage poll was 22.7% and the electoral quota was 1,390.

    Bellshill is in the neighbouring constituency to Rutherglen.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,544
    Cicero said:

    Good morning from Douglas

    On our way home this afternoon from a lovely holiday with fantastic weather and have completed the whole TT course including the mountain road, albeit in our car

    We have only had the hotel wifi so really good to avoid the toxic Johnson and his sycophants continuing to debase honesty and integrity

    Sunak has a moment on monday to become his own PM and vote for the report and not abstain by being somewher else

    We have the digital mail because of my wife's love of the puzzles but even she was angry with its coverage today and we discussed cancelling it, but as ever a wise lady she responded saying 'at least we can see what the enemy is saying'

    Those words should terrify the conservative party

    Meanwhile in Surrey Heath another two gains for the Lib Dems in the heart of Torydom on earth.

    It seems like the Tories have finally alienated their core voters beyond the point of no return.

    The last best hope for the Conservatives is to get a proper net win out of the fall of Bozza, somehow winning back more voters than they lose. (Whatever the party decides, some voters are going to be furious about it.) I'm not sure what the best strategy is to do that, but dithering and mithering isn't going to do it. What is the best answer to the "when did you stop Believing in Boris and why did you fall for him in the first place?" questions, anyway?

    Otherwise, the Conservatives are still below 30% in the poll averages, now with nineteen months tops until the next election, and about sixteen realistically. Apart from "Britain is Booming (no, really, it is if you look hard enough)", what have they got left?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,650

    HYUFD said:

    Good morning from Douglas

    On our way home this afternoon from a lovely holiday with fantastic weather and have completed the whole TT course including the mountain road, albeit in our car

    We have only had the hotel wifi so really good to avoid the toxic Johnson and his sycophants continuing to debase honesty and integrity

    Sunak has a moment on monday to become his own PM and vote for the report and not abstain by being somewher else

    We have the digital mail because of my wife's love of the puzzles but even she was angry with its coverage today and we discussed cancelling it, but as ever a wise lady she responded saying 'at least we can see what the enemy is saying'

    Those words should terrify the conservative party

    Why should your wife hating the Daily Mail but loving their crossword puzzles 'terrify the Conservative Party?'

    Sounds like you had a nice break in the Isle of Man anyway
    You really are strange

    She didn't say she hated the mail those are your words

    She was angry with the Johnson coverage but suggested if we retain it at least we can see what the enemy is saying

    Its coverage this morning is the enemy of honesty, decency and integrity something my wife and millions others hold dear but it seems that you do not recognise it sadly
    HY doesn't care about honesty, decency or integrity. Winning is the only concern.

    Your point was perfectly valid. The Heil is a mass market news platform, possibly *the* mass market platform. And when it dives off through unreality and makes stories and opinions up, the comments are hugely negative.

    Lets all be non-partisan for a minute. There are millions of decent respectable conservatives out there and they deserve a party worth their vote. They don't currently have one, and the media outlets supposedly representing their position instead have been corrupted by Trumpian alt-facts and open lies.

    Some people have been sucked down the rabbit hole, and for those people GBeebies and the Express are there. But for the mainstream of conservatives? It gets to the point when the media lose their audience and people just switch off listening.

    What did it for the Tories in 1997 wasn't just Tony Blair. It was the absolute collapse of the Tory vote. Labour went up by 2m. Tories fell by 4.5m. The same is brewing for 2024. Even if millions of 2019 Tory voters simply stay at home it will be a cataclysm. That HY cannot see this is baffling.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,084
    edited June 2023
    Happy Bloomsday everyone. 16th June is when we celebrate James Joyce's novel about horseracing, Ulysses, in which Harold Bloom backs Throwaway, the 20/1 winner of the 1904 Ascot Gold Cup.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,650
    HYUFD said:

    Cicero said:

    Good morning from Douglas

    On our way home this afternoon from a lovely holiday with fantastic weather and have completed the whole TT course including the mountain road, albeit in our car

    We have only had the hotel wifi so really good to avoid the toxic Johnson and his sycophants continuing to debase honesty and integrity

    Sunak has a moment on monday to become his own PM and vote for the report and not abstain by being somewher else

    We have the digital mail because of my wife's love of the puzzles but even she was angry with its coverage today and we discussed cancelling it, but as ever a wise lady she responded saying 'at least we can see what the enemy is saying'

    Those words should terrify the conservative party

    Meanwhile in Surrey Heath another two gains for the Lib Dems in the heart of Torydom on earth.

    It seems like the Tories have finally alienated their core voters beyond the point of no return.

    LDs always gain council by elections. However Sunak still leads Starmer as preferred PM in the bluewall with Redfield, even if Starmer leads Sunak as preferred PM in the UK overall now.

    While wealthy voters in Surrey may vote LD locally (not just to protest against Brexit but also as a NIMBY protest vote against new housing), a general election is a different matter. For if they elect a LD MP who votes to make Starmer PM and put Labour in government that means higher taxes for them. So I expect Sunak's Tories to do better in Surrey at the general election than local elections would suggest, given the Tories don't control a single district council in Surrey anymore except Reigate
    They *already pay* higher taxes. The highest peacetime tax take ever!

    You talk as if you are the low tax party! You are not!
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,527

    Bellshill by-election result (15th June 2023):

    Labour 51.8% (+13.0)
    SNP 27.1% (-13.7)
    Conservatives 8.5% (-5.1)
    British Unionist Party 4.3% (n/a)
    Alba 3.9% (+1.7)
    Greens 1.6% (n/a)
    Liberal Democrats 1.2% (n/a)
    Scottish Family Party 1.1% (n/a)
    Freedom Alliance 0.3% (n/a)
    UKIP 0.3% (n/a)

    The number of first preference votes polled for each candidate was:

    Joseph Budd, Scottish National Party (SNP) – 753
    Colin Cameron, Scottish Conservative and Unionist – 236
    John Arthur Henry Cole, Scottish Liberal Democrats – 34
    Leo Francis Lanahan, Scottish Family Party: Pro-Family, Pro-Marriage, Pro-Life - 30
    John Marshall, Alba Party for Independence – 107
    Anne McCrory, Scottish Labour Party – 1,440
    Rosemary McGowan, Scottish Greens - 44
    Simona Panaitescu, Freedom Alliance. Stop the Great Reset – 7
    Billy Ross, British Unionists – For a Better Britain - 120
    Neil Wilson, UK Independence Party - 7
    Total of first preference votes: 2,778

    The percentage poll was 22.7% and the electoral quota was 1,390.

    Bellshill is in the neighbouring constituency to Rutherglen.

    SKS fans please explain
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,605

    Cicero said:

    Good morning from Douglas

    On our way home this afternoon from a lovely holiday with fantastic weather and have completed the whole TT course including the mountain road, albeit in our car

    We have only had the hotel wifi so really good to avoid the toxic Johnson and his sycophants continuing to debase honesty and integrity

    Sunak has a moment on monday to become his own PM and vote for the report and not abstain by being somewher else

    We have the digital mail because of my wife's love of the puzzles but even she was angry with its coverage today and we discussed cancelling it, but as ever a wise lady she responded saying 'at least we can see what the enemy is saying'

    Those words should terrify the conservative party

    Meanwhile in Surrey Heath another two gains for the Lib Dems in the heart of Torydom on earth.

    It seems like the Tories have finally alienated their core voters beyond the point of no return.

    Here is what I don't understand. Tory voters consider themselves to be moral. They are aghast at the government - its crayon policies to kill refugees as much as its mortgage catastrophe. And then we have Boris!

    They have shown that they are motivated and organised, willing to vote as required to punish the party. Instead of thinking "lets not do the bad thing", we get amoral lickspittles like HY prepared to defend anything, call the sky green and denounce anyone insisting it is blue, deride any objectors as not true Tories.

    All this is doing is pushing an even firmer determination on voters to remove the government from office. Anyone see Newsnight last night? The ever scary VD in the chain, interviewing the Tory MP for Bassetlaw. Instead of fighting for his constituents he was on the "sky is green" pitch, raging against the Boris! report.

    VD managed to restrain herself from laughing, but did have to keep pulling him back to reality, and "have you even read the report???".
    Is that really on to call HYUFD amoral ?

    He may or may not be a lickspittle. That’s fair to debate but Amoral ?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,551

    Cicero said:

    Good morning from Douglas

    On our way home this afternoon from a lovely holiday with fantastic weather and have completed the whole TT course including the mountain road, albeit in our car

    We have only had the hotel wifi so really good to avoid the toxic Johnson and his sycophants continuing to debase honesty and integrity

    Sunak has a moment on monday to become his own PM and vote for the report and not abstain by being somewher else

    We have the digital mail because of my wife's love of the puzzles but even she was angry with its coverage today and we discussed cancelling it, but as ever a wise lady she responded saying 'at least we can see what the enemy is saying'

    Those words should terrify the conservative party

    Meanwhile in Surrey Heath another two gains for the Lib Dems in the heart of Torydom on earth.

    It seems like the Tories have finally alienated their core voters beyond the point of no return.

    The last best hope for the Conservatives is to get a proper net win out of the fall of Bozza, somehow winning back more voters than they lose. (Whatever the party decides, some voters are going to be furious about it.) I'm not sure what the best strategy is to do that, but dithering and mithering isn't going to do it. What is the best answer to the "when did you stop Believing in Boris and why did you fall for him in the first place?" questions, anyway?

    Otherwise, the Conservatives are still below 30% in the poll averages, now with nineteen months tops until the next election, and about sixteen realistically. Apart from "Britain is Booming (no, really, it is if you look hard enough)", what have they got left?
    Tbf, those the Conservatives antagonise because of how the party treated St Boris have nowhere else to go. They can console themselves on the media narrative from the last 24 hours that the real villains are Harman, Starmer and Gray.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Just goes to show Just Stop Oil is spoiled rich kids if they can afford tickets:

    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/23592933.just-stop-oil-protesters-target-opera-glyndeborne/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    Spotify ends podcast deal with Harry and Meghan
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65924584
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    edited June 2023

    Cicero said:

    Good morning from Douglas

    On our way home this afternoon from a lovely holiday with fantastic weather and have completed the whole TT course including the mountain road, albeit in our car

    We have only had the hotel wifi so really good to avoid the toxic Johnson and his sycophants continuing to debase honesty and integrity

    Sunak has a moment on monday to become his own PM and vote for the report and not abstain by being somewher else

    We have the digital mail because of my wife's love of the puzzles but even she was angry with its coverage today and we discussed cancelling it, but as ever a wise lady she responded saying 'at least we can see what the enemy is saying'

    Those words should terrify the conservative party

    Meanwhile in Surrey Heath another two gains for the Lib Dems in the heart of Torydom on earth.

    It seems like the Tories have finally alienated their core voters beyond the point of no return.

    The last best hope for the Conservatives is to get a proper net win out of the fall of Bozza, somehow winning back more voters than they lose. (Whatever the party decides, some voters are going to be furious about it.) I'm not sure what the best strategy is to do that, but dithering and mithering isn't going to do it. What is the best answer to the "when did you stop Believing in Boris and why did you fall for him in the first place?" questions, anyway?

    Otherwise, the Conservatives are still below 30% in the poll averages, now with nineteen months tops until the next election, and about sixteen realistically. Apart from "Britain is Booming (no, really, it is if you look hard enough)", what have they got left?
    Tbf, those the Conservatives antagonise because of how the party treated St Boris have nowhere else to go. They can console themselves on the media narrative from the last 24 hours that the real villains are Harman, Starmer and Gray.
    They can go to RefUK or stay home on polling day. In 1997 remember more Tory voters from 1992 stayed home or voted for Goldsmith's Referendum Party than switched to Blair's New Labour or the LDs
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,517
    How lucky am I to be working from home today, Monday, and Tuesday?

    #TheAshes
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Sean_F said:

    Many thanks for everyones’ kind words yesterday. To anyone who has the time, I’d recommend doing a research higher degree. It wasn’t just interesting in itself, it really helped clarify for me how to construct a lengthy argument. You’re entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts. You can’t bullshit, you can’t wing it, and every assertion you make that is not common knowledge has to be supported with a reference.

    Missed that yesterday - congratulations! What did you do?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,517
    You know what, by comparison, people who put pineapple on pizza aren't so bad.


  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    edited June 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Cicero said:

    Good morning from Douglas

    On our way home this afternoon from a lovely holiday with fantastic weather and have completed the whole TT course including the mountain road, albeit in our car

    We have only had the hotel wifi so really good to avoid the toxic Johnson and his sycophants continuing to debase honesty and integrity

    Sunak has a moment on monday to become his own PM and vote for the report and not abstain by being somewher else

    We have the digital mail because of my wife's love of the puzzles but even she was angry with its coverage today and we discussed cancelling it, but as ever a wise lady she responded saying 'at least we can see what the enemy is saying'

    Those words should terrify the conservative party

    Meanwhile in Surrey Heath another two gains for the Lib Dems in the heart of Torydom on earth.

    It seems like the Tories have finally alienated their core voters beyond the point of no return.

    LDs always gain council by elections. However Sunak still leads Starmer as preferred PM in the bluewall with Redfield, even if Starmer leads Sunak as preferred PM in the UK overall now.

    While wealthy voters in Surrey may vote LD locally (not just to protest against Brexit but also as a NIMBY protest vote against new housing), a general election is a different matter. For if they elect a LD MP who votes to make Starmer PM and put Labour in government that means higher taxes for them. So I expect Sunak's Tories to do better in Surrey at the general election than local elections would suggest, given the Tories don't control a single district council in Surrey anymore except Reigate
    They *already pay* higher taxes. The highest peacetime tax take ever!

    You talk as if you are the low tax party! You are not!
    Which would get even higher for wealthy, high earning Surrey voters under a Starmer Labour government that would put the top income tax rate back to 50% and introduce a wealth tax most likely and put up CGT
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,962
    Catching up on yesterday's lab leak stuff - can anyone link to an original source?

    Other than "Public and Racket," which I did find and rather regretted. Unless I wanted to learn more about a dozen UFOs operated by the US in secrecy. Or about the authors of these two blogs and their "plot to dismantle the Censorship Industrial Complex in London.



    A podcast by RFK Jr. Plus a defence of RFK Jr a bit later.

    That UFO stuff.

    An attack piece on a vaccine scientist who came up with a patent-free coronavirus vaccine.

    Lots of stuff on "The Twitter Files."

    A piece on Nazi symbols by Ukrainian soldiers, apparently.

    Plenty of trans stuff.

    I may be being all "beta" or whatever, but I'd prefer to find out better sources than that. Mindful of the fact that the US Intelligence Community reports, while much disagreement was there, were in agreement that the "three WIV researchers falling ill" was a red herring (and had been suggested since the very start but apparently repeatedly counter-indicated), and that they were in agreement that it wasn't engineered to be a bio-weapon, I'd like to see something other than "someone anonymous told us" by these particular people.

    Plus - the furin cleavage site stuff has looked more and more like a blind alley as the years have gone past, especially as it's not unique (MERS has it, as well as several other human coronaviruses), and it's not the kind of insertion anyone would make to improve transmissibility.

    I get Leon's assertion that it's all down to the US wanting to cover it up, but that's just someone asserting something.

    I could well believe a lab leak - after all, there was an abortive SARS leak several years back, although this would be a first for a novel virus - but it would need some reals rather than just feels. The stuff on the wet market was very well researched and convincing that it blew up from there rather than anywhere else, and was very compatible with zoonotic transfer (the two lineages - which would require a minimum of two identical lab leaks; not impossible, but needs more evidence).

    Either way, more work needs to be done to prevent zoonotic spillover (it either happened here or is prone to happen more and more in the future, anyway, unless something is done).
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,551
    HYUFD said:

    Spotify ends podcast deal with Harry and Meghan
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65924584

    I am trying to weigh up reality. Is Harriet Harman now more evil than Hazza and Megs?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,369

    You know what, by comparison, people who put pineapple on pizza aren't so bad.


    After the line “Wrap in cling film and place in a pocket.” For it to continue “then throw it in a bin and book a restaurant for lunch thus combining eating something edible and boosting the economy.”

    I’m presuming the good doctor is a gut specialist with a private practice and is trying to boost his custom with the poor unfortunates who follow his advice.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,369

    HYUFD said:

    Spotify ends podcast deal with Harry and Meghan
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65924584

    I am trying to weigh up reality. Is Harriet Harman now more evil than Hazza and Megs?
    We will have to wait and see the seating plan for the next coronation for the answer.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,759
    If

    Sean_F said:

    Many thanks for everyones’ kind words yesterday. To anyone who has the time, I’d recommend doing a research higher degree. It wasn’t just interesting in itself, it really helped clarify for me how to construct a lengthy argument. You’re entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts. You can’t bullshit, you can’t wing it, and every assertion you make that is not common knowledge has to be supported with a reference.

    Missed that yesterday - congratulations! What did you do?
    Thanks, an MA in military history.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,759

    Sean_F said:

    Many thanks for everyones’ kind words yesterday. To anyone who has the time, I’d recommend doing a research higher degree. It wasn’t just interesting in itself, it really helped clarify for me how to construct a lengthy argument. You’re entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts. You can’t bullshit, you can’t wing it, and every assertion you make that is not common knowledge has to be supported with a reference.

    Sorry, did glance at it but didn't respond. A massive personal achievement which much have you grinning from ear to ear!
    Thanks. I feel better about it than getting a resignation knighthood.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    African leaders head to Ukraine on a peace mission

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-65918754
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 7,904
    A beautiful Friday morning in the UK's finest city.

    We've just popped onto an immaculate Avanti West Coast train. We've got two heavily laden bikes, but a "Cycle Quartermaster" raised an eyebrow and beckoned us towards the front.

    This man is everything that is good about Scotland. A degree of congenial exasperation as he helped us onto this 8:52 service to Euston. A cavernous cycle storage area, reserved area for our panniers, and reserved seats right next to the bikes. Silence and air conditioning in the coach.

    All booked at short notice for £13. The UK/Scotland does occasionally work.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,022

    HYUFD said:

    Good morning from Douglas

    On our way home this afternoon from a lovely holiday with fantastic weather and have completed the whole TT course including the mountain road, albeit in our car

    We have only had the hotel wifi so really good to avoid the toxic Johnson and his sycophants continuing to debase honesty and integrity

    Sunak has a moment on monday to become his own PM and vote for the report and not abstain by being somewher else

    We have the digital mail because of my wife's love of the puzzles but even she was angry with its coverage today and we discussed cancelling it, but as ever a wise lady she responded saying 'at least we can see what the enemy is saying'

    Those words should terrify the conservative party

    Why should your wife hating the Daily Mail but loving their crossword puzzles 'terrify the Conservative Party?'

    Sounds like you had a nice break in the Isle of Man anyway
    You really are strange

    She didn't say she hated the mail those are your words

    She was angry with the Johnson coverage but suggested if we retain it at least we can see what the enemy is saying

    Its coverage this morning is the enemy of honesty, decency and integrity something my wife and millions others hold dear but it seems that you do not recognise it sadly
    HY doesn't care about honesty, decency or integrity. Winning is the only concern.

    Your point was perfectly valid. The Heil is a mass market news platform, possibly *the* mass market platform. And when it dives off through unreality and makes stories and opinions up, the comments are hugely negative.

    Lets all be non-partisan for a minute. There are millions of decent respectable conservatives out there and they deserve a party worth their vote. They don't currently have one, and the media outlets supposedly representing their position instead have been corrupted by Trumpian alt-facts and open lies.

    Some people have been sucked down the rabbit hole, and for those people GBeebies and the Express are there. But for the mainstream of conservatives? It gets to the point when the media lose their audience and people just switch off listening.

    What did it for the Tories in 1997 wasn't just Tony Blair. It was the absolute collapse of the Tory vote. Labour went up by 2m. Tories fell by 4.5m. The same is brewing for 2024. Even if millions of 2019 Tory voters simply stay at home it will be a cataclysm. That HY cannot see this is baffling.
    Excellent analysis which I agree with wholeheartedly
This discussion has been closed.