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Sunak is coming out of this with his reputation enhanced – politicalbetting.com

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  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two police officers in a marked van who followed two teenage boys on an electric bike before it crashed killing them both in Cardiff have been served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Office for Police Conduct said

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1668612441746587651

    Yet the police continue to wonder why they have a recruitment problem. Chase suspects and get fired.
    Be involved in the deaths of two kids, get investigated

    Doesn't sound quite so unfair now, does it?
    The police vehicle wasn’t involved in the accident, and was quite some distance away at the time.

    My understanding was that the suspects took a footpath between two roads, that the police van couldn’t follow them down, and were involved in a collision at the other end of the footpath where it met another road.

    The problems in which case being the design of the footpath, and the availability of overpowered electric scooters which need to be licenced as motorbikes - and very little to do with the two police officers involved.
    Oh. You don't have the excuse of ignorance, apparently.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694
    Chris said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two police officers in a marked van who followed two teenage boys on an electric bike before it crashed killing them both in Cardiff have been served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Office for Police Conduct said

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1668612441746587651

    Yet the police continue to wonder why they have a recruitment problem. Chase suspects and get fired.
    From that, possibly you didn't follow the story at the time.

    People who did will know that the boys died in a crash, and then South Wales Police (and the Commissioner) issued strong statements denying that they had been followed by the police. From CCTV evidence it became clear they had been followed.

    If you have a brain and can bear to try to engage it rather than spouting sub-Daily-Mail drivel, perhaps you can think of a reason the officers who followed the boys might have been accused of gross misconduct.
    Why is it gross misconduct to follow them? What am I missing?

    The video I have seen (not the BBC version) shows the van a considerable distance behind the bike. I have no doubt that the boys thought they were being followed and acted accordingly. Law abiding citizens tend to stop if requested by the police.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,168
    HYUFD said:

    Lawrence Fox to stand for Parliament in Uxbridge for Reclaim
    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1668602649120235521?s=20

    Will anyone apart from Lozza be losing their deposit at that news?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987

    HYUFD said:

    Lawrence Fox to stand for Parliament in Uxbridge for Reclaim
    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1668602649120235521?s=20

    Are they different to Refuk? Surely these boys can come up with some snappy TLAs?
    Reclaim are more anti vax and harder against Covid lockdowns than RefUK, that is the main difference, on other matters they are similar
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,303

    Talk of a 0.5% rate rise from the Bank of England. Looks like the economy has more signs of life in it than they realised.

    We truly are the cursed generation…
    The BOE are totally out of control.
    I don't understand that criticism. They should have raised rates sooner but why are they wrong for doing it now?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    Sandpit said:

    Two police officers in a marked van who followed two teenage boys on an electric bike before it crashed killing them both in Cardiff have been served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Office for Police Conduct said

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1668612441746587651

    Yet the police continue to wonder why they have a recruitment problem. Chase suspects and get fired.
    Their recruitment problem isn't an inability to attract blokes who want to do car chases.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779

    Chris said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two police officers in a marked van who followed two teenage boys on an electric bike before it crashed killing them both in Cardiff have been served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Office for Police Conduct said

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1668612441746587651

    Yet the police continue to wonder why they have a recruitment problem. Chase suspects and get fired.
    From that, possibly you didn't follow the story at the time.

    People who did will know that the boys died in a crash, and then South Wales Police (and the Commissioner) issued strong statements denying that they had been followed by the police. From CCTV evidence it became clear they had been followed.

    If you have a brain and can bear to try to engage it rather than spouting sub-Daily-Mail drivel, perhaps you can think of a reason the officers who followed the boys might have been accused of gross misconduct.
    Why is it gross misconduct to follow them? What am I missing?
    Basic reading ability, evidently.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987


    Without wishing to sound too much like HYUFD, I believe the standard answer to this by all but the most extreme of Christian fundamentalists is when Christ is reported to have said "My father's house has many rooms", which may just have been him bragging that his dad had a big place, but I believe it is interpreted as saying if you live a good and spiritual life you have a place in heaven.

    That is rather contradicted by John 14:6, though.
    If you commit to Christ you have a place in heaven yes
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    edited June 2023
    Chris said:

    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two police officers in a marked van who followed two teenage boys on an electric bike before it crashed killing them both in Cardiff have been served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Office for Police Conduct said

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1668612441746587651

    Yet the police continue to wonder why they have a recruitment problem. Chase suspects and get fired.
    Be involved in the deaths of two kids, get investigated

    Doesn't sound quite so unfair now, does it?
    The police vehicle wasn’t involved in the accident, and was quite some distance away at the time.

    My understanding was that the suspects took a footpath between two roads, that the police van couldn’t follow them down, and were involved in a collision at the other end of the footpath where it met another road.

    The problems in which case being the design of the footpath, and the availability of overpowered electric scooters which need to be licenced as motorbikes - and very little to do with the two police officers involved.
    Oh. You don't have the excuse of ignorance, apparently.
    No.

    This is a repeat of the phone theft gangs a few years ago, before Apple made stolen phones un-useable. The police got told to back off chasing suspects, in case the suspect got injured. With the result that the gangs were granted total immunity to keep mugging people across London.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    Cookie said:

    In reference to the Mail front page it's definitely time for a change of government. Why? Because:

    Labour has failed to stop the small boats.
    Labour has failed to curb inflation.
    Labour has failed to curb immigration.
    Labour has made a mess of Brexit.
    Labour has presided over a cost of living crisis.
    Labour has failed to significantly improve productivity over the last 13 years.
    Labour has failed to stop the spread of infectious wokeness.
    Starmer has been a dud PM.

    Have I got that right?

    You make a good point wittily. But there is a kernel of a valid point in there: while the Tories have been bad at all the above, it's hard to see how Labour's proposed solutions wouldn't have made all the above situations worse. Immigration? Labour have never shown any indication that they consider it anything but a good thing. Inflation? When did Labour last urge less public spending? Productivity? It's not particularly obvious that Labour has grasped the issue. Brexit? I'm not sure Labour really sees any solutions or opportunities other than deeper integration with Europe. Wokeness? They love it.
    Arguably Starmer has a big lead on competence over Boris and Liz and is at worst even stevens with Rishi.
    Au contraire: the Conservatives have failed to stop woke; Labour could claim success in spreading woke.

    I mean, there'd be no change on the rest, but there they could make a real case for having succeeded.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    Sandpit said:

    Chris said:

    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two police officers in a marked van who followed two teenage boys on an electric bike before it crashed killing them both in Cardiff have been served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Office for Police Conduct said

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1668612441746587651

    Yet the police continue to wonder why they have a recruitment problem. Chase suspects and get fired.
    Be involved in the deaths of two kids, get investigated

    Doesn't sound quite so unfair now, does it?
    The police vehicle wasn’t involved in the accident, and was quite some distance away at the time.

    My understanding was that the suspects took a footpath between two roads, that the police van couldn’t follow them down, and were involved in a collision at the other end of the footpath where it met another road.

    The problems in which case being the design of the footpath, and the availability of overpowered electric scooters which need to be licenced as motorbikes - and very little to do with the two police officers involved.
    Oh. You don't have the excuse of ignorance, apparently.
    No.

    This is a repeat of the phone theft gangs a few years ago, before Apple made stolen phones un-useable. The police got told to back off chasing suspects, in case the suspect got injured. With the result that the gangs were granted total immunity to keep mugging people across London.
    Are you a saloon-bar ignoramus tribute act?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    edited June 2023
    The BBC's coverage of the death of the boys on the bike in Cardiff left a lot to be desired:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2hb67Gm8sM
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081
    Leon said:

    I just eagerly unwrapped my hotel pillow-chocolate and discovered it’s actually a mint

    The disappointment is surprisingly severe

    I once - in a hotel in Bruges - eagerly unwrapped my hotel pillow chocolate and was disappointed and bemused to find that it appeared actually to be a sleeping pill.
    I didn't use it.
    The hotel also had the slowest and smallest lift I have ever been in. Two people could fit in it, but not if they had any luggage.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,690
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two police officers in a marked van who followed two teenage boys on an electric bike before it crashed killing them both in Cardiff have been served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Office for Police Conduct said

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1668612441746587651

    Yet the police continue to wonder why they have a recruitment problem. Chase suspects and get fired.
    From that, possibly you didn't follow the story at the time.

    People who did will know that the boys died in a crash, and then South Wales Police (and the Commissioner) issued strong statements denying that they had been followed by the police. From CCTV evidence it became clear they had been followed.

    If you have a brain and can bear to try to engage it rather than spouting sub-Daily-Mail drivel, perhaps you can think of a reason the officers who followed the boys might have been accused of gross misconduct.
    Why is it gross misconduct to follow them? What am I missing?
    Basic reading ability, evidently.
    Whereas your problem apppears to be basic comprehension.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    I just eagerly unwrapped my hotel pillow-chocolate and discovered it’s actually a mint

    The disappointment is surprisingly severe

    I once - in a hotel in Bruges - eagerly unwrapped my hotel pillow chocolate and was disappointed and bemused to find that it appeared actually to be a sleeping pill.
    I didn't use it.
    The hotel also had the slowest and smallest lift I have ever been in. Two people could fit in it, but not if they had any luggage.
    Chocolate size? Could have been a suppository.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two police officers in a marked van who followed two teenage boys on an electric bike before it crashed killing them both in Cardiff have been served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Office for Police Conduct said

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1668612441746587651

    Yet the police continue to wonder why they have a recruitment problem. Chase suspects and get fired.
    From that, possibly you didn't follow the story at the time.

    People who did will know that the boys died in a crash, and then South Wales Police (and the Commissioner) issued strong statements denying that they had been followed by the police. From CCTV evidence it became clear they had been followed.

    If you have a brain and can bear to try to engage it rather than spouting sub-Daily-Mail drivel, perhaps you can think of a reason the officers who followed the boys might have been accused of gross misconduct.
    Why is it gross misconduct to follow them? What am I missing?
    Basic reading ability, evidently.
    Nope - are you saying that they lied about following them? Its not clear that it was a pursuit - I contend that two things may be true - the boys thought they were being followed, and the officers thought they were driving a long a road.

    Maybe I'm thick, but its not clear from what you posted why the charge.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    Pulpstar said:

    Policings dead if lads tearing around on e-bikes can't be followed at a 15 second interval.

    Yep, here's the original footage before the BBC played silly buggers with it:

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1661480942719111169
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    One of the lawyers at the Covid Inquiry has just invoked "the effects of Brexit" as one of the factors.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    tlg86 said:

    The BBC's coverage of the death of the boys on the bike in Cardiff left a lot to be desired:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2hb67Gm8sM

    Is that what the BBC actually showed, with the 15-second cut in the middle?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    HYUFD said:


    Without wishing to sound too much like HYUFD, I believe the standard answer to this by all but the most extreme of Christian fundamentalists is when Christ is reported to have said "My father's house has many rooms", which may just have been him bragging that his dad had a big place, but I believe it is interpreted as saying if you live a good and spiritual life you have a place in heaven.

    That is rather contradicted by John 14:6, though.
    If you commit to Christ you have a place in heaven yes
    I'd commit to Christ if I even slightly believed that. It would be eccentric not to.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694
    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two police officers in a marked van who followed two teenage boys on an electric bike before it crashed killing them both in Cardiff have been served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Office for Police Conduct said

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1668612441746587651

    Yet the police continue to wonder why they have a recruitment problem. Chase suspects and get fired.
    Be involved in the deaths of two kids, get investigated

    Doesn't sound quite so unfair now, does it?
    The police vehicle wasn’t involved in the accident, and was quite some distance away at the time.

    My understanding was that the suspects took a footpath between two roads, that the police van couldn’t follow them down, and were involved in a collision at the other end of the footpath where it met another road.

    The problems in which case being the design of the footpath, and the availability of overpowered electric scooters which need to be licenced as motorbikes - and very little to do with the two police officers involved.
    If it's all the same with you, I'll let the investigation decide that. I'm sure if they've done nothing wrong they will be cleared.
    No issue with that. Other posters seem to have convicted already,
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    HYUFD said:


    Without wishing to sound too much like HYUFD, I believe the standard answer to this by all but the most extreme of Christian fundamentalists is when Christ is reported to have said "My father's house has many rooms", which may just have been him bragging that his dad had a big place, but I believe it is interpreted as saying if you live a good and spiritual life you have a place in heaven.

    That is rather contradicted by John 14:6, though.
    If you commit to Christ you have a place in heaven yes
    What if you commit to Christ and you murder your wife?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,303
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    I just eagerly unwrapped my hotel pillow-chocolate and discovered it’s actually a mint

    The disappointment is surprisingly severe

    I once - in a hotel in Bruges - eagerly unwrapped my hotel pillow chocolate and was disappointed and bemused to find that it appeared actually to be a sleeping pill.
    I didn't use it.
    The hotel also had the slowest and smallest lift I have ever been in. Two people could fit in it, but not if they had any luggage.
    Was it one of those old-fashioned ones with collapsible metal doors?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    Andy_JS said:

    One of the lawyers at the Covid Inquiry has just invoked "the effects of Brexit" as one of the factors.

    On the grounds (I'm guessing) that it sucked attention and energy away from all else.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401

    Leon said:

    I just eagerly unwrapped my hotel pillow-chocolate and discovered it’s actually a mint

    The disappointment is surprisingly severe

    Chocolates on hotel pillows are an absolute abomination of an idea, especially if you've had an agreeable dinner and collapse into bed without noticing the damned thing.
    Reminiscent of this ...

    https://www.facebook.com/FansBillyConnolly/videos/billy-connolly-hotel-room/752563692566809/
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    HYUFD said:

    Lawrence Fox to stand for Parliament in Uxbridge for Reclaim
    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1668602649120235521?s=20

    Does this mean Reform UK won't be standing?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    The BBC's coverage of the death of the boys on the bike in Cardiff left a lot to be desired:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2hb67Gm8sM

    Is that what the BBC actually showed, with the 15-second cut in the middle?
    Yes, it was utterly disgraceful.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,690

    HYUFD said:

    Lawrence Fox to stand for Parliament in Uxbridge for Reclaim
    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1668602649120235521?s=20

    Are they different to Refuk? Surely these boys can come up with some snappy TLAs?
    Yep.

    Reform UK is the renamed Brexit Party - Farage's ego trip.
    Reclaim is Laurence Fox's ego trip.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694
    Andy_JS said:

    One of the lawyers at the Covid Inquiry has just invoked "the effects of Brexit" as one of the factors.

    Almost all of them have done so far. Its quite clear that the covid for justice type groups are throwing mud at everything in the hope something sticks. A lot will I suspect, but its not been edifying so far. The statements have been rather slanted (perhaps understandably).
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Sandpit said:

    Two police officers in a marked van who followed two teenage boys on an electric bike before it crashed killing them both in Cardiff have been served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Office for Police Conduct said

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1668612441746587651

    Yet the police continue to wonder why they have a recruitment problem. Chase suspects and get fired.
    What offense were the two "suspects" in this incident, suspected of committing?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lawrence Fox to stand for Parliament in Uxbridge for Reclaim
    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1668602649120235521?s=20

    Does this mean Reform UK won't be standing?
    Reform and Reclaim have done a deal to carve up which by-elections they stand in.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Andy_JS said:

    One of the lawyers at the Covid Inquiry has just invoked "the effects of Brexit" as one of the factors.

    The only hope is, that by letting the ‘campaign groups’ have their say right at the start, everyone will soon move their focus to the primary aim of the inquiry, which is to allow the government to better prepare for the next massive national emergency.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491
    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the lawyers at the Covid Inquiry has just invoked "the effects of Brexit" as one of the factors.

    On the grounds (I'm guessing) that it sucked attention and energy away from all else.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-65876922?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=64885d84c408bd3c18cbc288&Did Brexit damage pandemic planning?&2023-06-13T12:45:00.706Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:886017fb-228f-48f4-ab23-43e762a26963&pinned_post_asset_id=64885d84c408bd3c18cbc288&pinned_post_type=share

    Did Brexit damage pandemic planning?
    Jim Reed

    Health reporter, BBC News

    In his opening address Hugo Keith KC, the lead lawyer to the inquiry, did not shy away from difficult political questions.

    The issue of Brexit and whether leaving the EU might have distracted politicians and civil servants from planning for the next pandemic is something victims’ groups have raised in the past.

    Keith said that from 2018 onwards that departure and, in particular, planning for a possible no-deal Brexit, required an “enormous amount” of preparations to address “food and medicine supplies, travel and transport, business and borders and so on”.

    “Did the attention paid to the risks of a no-deal exit, Operation Yellowhammer as it was known, drain the resources and capacity that should have been continuing the fight against the next pandemic?” he asked.

    “Or did all that generic and operational planning, in fact lead to people being better trained and well-marshalled and in fact better prepared to deal with Covid...

    Quote Message: My lady, on the evidence so far, and it will be a matter for you, we very much fear that it was the former.” from Hugo Keith KC Lead lawyer to the inquiry
    My lady, on the evidence so far, and it will be a matter for you, we very much fear that it was the former.”

    Hugo Keith KC
    Lead lawyer to the inquiry
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417

    Sandpit said:

    Two police officers in a marked van who followed two teenage boys on an electric bike before it crashed killing them both in Cardiff have been served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Office for Police Conduct said

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1668612441746587651

    Yet the police continue to wonder why they have a recruitment problem. Chase suspects and get fired.
    What offense were the two "suspects" in this incident, suspected of committing?
    If you’re thinking about getting an e-bike, you’ll need to understand the UK law for electric bikes. It’s legal to ride an e-bike in the UK without a licence, but only if it meets certain requirements: it must be pedal assist instead of ‘twist and go throttle’; and have a maximum power output of 250 watts, with a speed restriction of 15.5mph.

    It looked quicker than that to me so for starters -

    Riding without a license, riding without insurance & riding without a helmet.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the lawyers at the Covid Inquiry has just invoked "the effects of Brexit" as one of the factors.

    Almost all of them have done so far. Its quite clear that the covid for justice type groups are throwing mud at everything in the hope something sticks. A lot will I suspect, but its not been edifying so far. The statements have been rather slanted (perhaps understandably).
    I have found the TUC lawyer, who is speaking now, to be overly and unnecessarily political in his opening statement, but others struck me as more edifying. They obviously each reflect their organisation's interests, as one would expect.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    Pulpstar said:

    Policings dead if lads tearing around on e-bikes can't be followed at a 15 second interval.

    I woul guess the problem is the statements they gave, rather than the chase itself.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two police officers in a marked van who followed two teenage boys on an electric bike before it crashed killing them both in Cardiff have been served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Office for Police Conduct said

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1668612441746587651

    Yet the police continue to wonder why they have a recruitment problem. Chase suspects and get fired.
    From that, possibly you didn't follow the story at the time.

    People who did will know that the boys died in a crash, and then South Wales Police (and the Commissioner) issued strong statements denying that they had been followed by the police. From CCTV evidence it became clear they had been followed.

    If you have a brain and can bear to try to engage it rather than spouting sub-Daily-Mail drivel, perhaps you can think of a reason the officers who followed the boys might have been accused of gross misconduct.
    Why is it gross misconduct to follow them? What am I missing?
    Basic reading ability, evidently.
    Nope - are you saying that they lied about following them?
    Unlike the Gor Blimey chorus, I'm not saying anything more than I know. I don't know whether they lied, but it's a possible explanation for the gross misconduct charge that must have been obvious to everyone who followed the story.

    Obviously the tweet doesn't say they were charged with gross misconduct simply because they followed suspects. How could anyone think that was the case? There has to be something more.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two police officers in a marked van who followed two teenage boys on an electric bike before it crashed killing them both in Cardiff have been served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Office for Police Conduct said

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1668612441746587651

    Yet the police continue to wonder why they have a recruitment problem. Chase suspects and get fired.
    What offense were the two "suspects" in this incident, suspected of committing?
    If you’re thinking about getting an e-bike, you’ll need to understand the UK law for electric bikes. It’s legal to ride an e-bike in the UK without a licence, but only if it meets certain requirements: it must be pedal assist instead of ‘twist and go throttle’; and have a maximum power output of 250 watts, with a speed restriction of 15.5mph.

    It looked quicker than that to me so for starters -

    Riding without a license, riding without insurance & riding without a helmet.
    It's probably the former but a Dura Ace type figure has fiddled with the electronics.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two police officers in a marked van who followed two teenage boys on an electric bike before it crashed killing them both in Cardiff have been served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Office for Police Conduct said

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1668612441746587651

    Yet the police continue to wonder why they have a recruitment problem. Chase suspects and get fired.
    What offense were the two "suspects" in this incident, suspected of committing?
    If you’re thinking about getting an e-bike, you’ll need to understand the UK law for electric bikes. It’s legal to ride an e-bike in the UK without a licence, but only if it meets certain requirements: it must be pedal assist instead of ‘twist and go throttle’; and have a maximum power output of 250 watts, with a speed restriction of 15.5mph.

    It looked quicker than that to me so for starters -

    Riding without a license, riding without insurance & riding without a helmet.
    Presumably also failing to stop when instructed by a police officer.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:


    Without wishing to sound too much like HYUFD, I believe the standard answer to this by all but the most extreme of Christian fundamentalists is when Christ is reported to have said "My father's house has many rooms", which may just have been him bragging that his dad had a big place, but I believe it is interpreted as saying if you live a good and spiritual life you have a place in heaven.

    That is rather contradicted by John 14:6, though.
    If you commit to Christ you have a place in heaven yes
    What if you commit to Christ and you murder your wife?
    Then you haven't committed to Christ as he told you to love your neighbour as yourself, not to kill them.

    He also upheld the Ten Commandments laws of Moses ie including not to kill
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:


    Without wishing to sound too much like HYUFD, I believe the standard answer to this by all but the most extreme of Christian fundamentalists is when Christ is reported to have said "My father's house has many rooms", which may just have been him bragging that his dad had a big place, but I believe it is interpreted as saying if you live a good and spiritual life you have a place in heaven.

    That is rather contradicted by John 14:6, though.
    If you commit to Christ you have a place in heaven yes
    What if you commit to Christ and you murder your wife?
    Then you haven't committed to Christ as he told you to love your neighbour as yourself, not to kill them.

    He also upheld the Ten Commandments laws of Moses ie including not to kill
    What if your wife is about to be killed by 20 Nazis, you are 20 yards away and have a gun. What's your next move?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,916
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:


    Without wishing to sound too much like HYUFD, I believe the standard answer to this by all but the most extreme of Christian fundamentalists is when Christ is reported to have said "My father's house has many rooms", which may just have been him bragging that his dad had a big place, but I believe it is interpreted as saying if you live a good and spiritual life you have a place in heaven.

    That is rather contradicted by John 14:6, though.
    If you commit to Christ you have a place in heaven yes
    What if you commit to Christ and you murder your wife?
    The central point of Christian theology is that God will forgive you your sins, if you repent of them and do due obeisance to Him.

    It doesn't seem to matter all that much what you do. The argument seems to be that if you don't repent or do the prayer stuff, that you would have been worse.

    I can see why a religion wouldn't want to be too fussy about who they accepted as adherents, but it always seemed a bit of a cop out.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,208
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two police officers in a marked van who followed two teenage boys on an electric bike before it crashed killing them both in Cardiff have been served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Office for Police Conduct said

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1668612441746587651

    Yet the police continue to wonder why they have a recruitment problem. Chase suspects and get fired.
    What offense were the two "suspects" in this incident, suspected of committing?
    If you’re thinking about getting an e-bike, you’ll need to understand the UK law for electric bikes. It’s legal to ride an e-bike in the UK without a licence, but only if it meets certain requirements: it must be pedal assist instead of ‘twist and go throttle’; and have a maximum power output of 250 watts, with a speed restriction of 15.5mph.

    It looked quicker than that to me so for starters -

    Riding without a license, riding without insurance & riding without a helmet.
    The speed limit is only for the motor assist though, if you can accelerate beyond that by pedalling it's ok, but the motor should cut out.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    Eabhal said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Policings dead if lads tearing around on e-bikes can't be followed at a 15 second interval.

    I woul guess the problem is the statements they gave, rather than the chase itself.
    Potentially, and especially if that's why their seniors were made to look like idiots.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    edited June 2023
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:


    Without wishing to sound too much like HYUFD, I believe the standard answer to this by all but the most extreme of Christian fundamentalists is when Christ is reported to have said "My father's house has many rooms", which may just have been him bragging that his dad had a big place, but I believe it is interpreted as saying if you live a good and spiritual life you have a place in heaven.

    That is rather contradicted by John 14:6, though.
    If you commit to Christ you have a place in heaven yes
    What if you commit to Christ and you murder your wife?
    Then you haven't committed to Christ as he told you to love your neighbour as yourself, not to kill them.

    He also upheld the Ten Commandments laws of Moses ie including not to kill
    What if your wife is about to be killed by 20 Nazis, you are 20 yards away and have a gun. What's your next move?
    You ask for forgiveness later?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited June 2023
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:


    Without wishing to sound too much like HYUFD, I believe the standard answer to this by all but the most extreme of Christian fundamentalists is when Christ is reported to have said "My father's house has many rooms", which may just have been him bragging that his dad had a big place, but I believe it is interpreted as saying if you live a good and spiritual life you have a place in heaven.

    That is rather contradicted by John 14:6, though.
    If you commit to Christ you have a place in heaven yes
    What if you commit to Christ and you murder your wife?
    Then you haven't committed to Christ as he told you to love your neighbour as yourself, not to kill them.

    He also upheld the Ten Commandments laws of Moses ie including not to kill
    What if your wife is about to be killed by 20 Nazis, you are 20 yards away and have a gun. What's your next move?
    Then you turn full Old Testament God as he drowned the Egyptians in their chariots to protect the Jews!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491
    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:


    Without wishing to sound too much like HYUFD, I believe the standard answer to this by all but the most extreme of Christian fundamentalists is when Christ is reported to have said "My father's house has many rooms", which may just have been him bragging that his dad had a big place, but I believe it is interpreted as saying if you live a good and spiritual life you have a place in heaven.

    That is rather contradicted by John 14:6, though.
    If you commit to Christ you have a place in heaven yes
    What if you commit to Christ and you murder your wife?
    Then you haven't committed to Christ as he told you to love your neighbour as yourself, not to kill them.

    He also upheld the Ten Commandments laws of Moses ie including not to kill
    How is Suella Braverman's approach compatible with loving your neighbour? Presumably anyone who supports Braverman cannot have truly committed to Christ either.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    The BBC's coverage of the death of the boys on the bike in Cardiff left a lot to be desired:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2hb67Gm8sM

    Is that what the BBC actually showed, with the 15-second cut in the middle?
    Yes, it was utterly disgraceful.
    The police van had been following about two seconds behind the boys when filmed earlier. The reason it was further behind in that video was that the boys went the wrong way around a large roundabout, and the van lost time going to right way.

    But in any case, it's academic how far behind the police were at any point - except that the van had obviously been pursuing the boys - because (as far as I know) no one suggests the police were close behind at the time of the crash.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:


    Without wishing to sound too much like HYUFD, I believe the standard answer to this by all but the most extreme of Christian fundamentalists is when Christ is reported to have said "My father's house has many rooms", which may just have been him bragging that his dad had a big place, but I believe it is interpreted as saying if you live a good and spiritual life you have a place in heaven.

    That is rather contradicted by John 14:6, though.
    If you commit to Christ you have a place in heaven yes
    What if you commit to Christ and you murder your wife?
    Then you haven't committed to Christ as he told you to love your neighbour as yourself, not to kill them.

    He also upheld the Ten Commandments laws of Moses ie including not to kill
    What if your wife is about to be killed by 20 Nazis, you are 20 yards away and have a gun. What's your next move?
    “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword” (Matthew 26:52)
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,260
    edited June 2023
    Bafflement and confusion from Democratic and Republican US Senators on the latest UFO claims, and quiet from most of the media because they're frightened of looking like cranks.

    https://twitter.com/RogueUAPTF/status/1668623494530342915
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    Chris said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    The BBC's coverage of the death of the boys on the bike in Cardiff left a lot to be desired:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2hb67Gm8sM

    Is that what the BBC actually showed, with the 15-second cut in the middle?
    Yes, it was utterly disgraceful.
    The police van had been following about two seconds behind the boys when filmed earlier. The reason it was further behind in that video was that the boys went the wrong way around a large roundabout, and the van lost time going to right way.

    But in any case, it's academic how far behind the police were at any point - except that the van had obviously been pursuing the boys - because (as far as I know) no one suggests the police were close behind at the time of the crash.
    In which case, what was all the rioting about?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    edited June 2023
    kamski said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two police officers in a marked van who followed two teenage boys on an electric bike before it crashed killing them both in Cardiff have been served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Office for Police Conduct said

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1668612441746587651

    Yet the police continue to wonder why they have a recruitment problem. Chase suspects and get fired.
    What offense were the two "suspects" in this incident, suspected of committing?
    If you’re thinking about getting an e-bike, you’ll need to understand the UK law for electric bikes. It’s legal to ride an e-bike in the UK without a licence, but only if it meets certain requirements: it must be pedal assist instead of ‘twist and go throttle’; and have a maximum power output of 250 watts, with a speed restriction of 15.5mph.

    It looked quicker than that to me so for starters -

    Riding without a license, riding without insurance & riding without a helmet.
    The speed limit is only for the motor assist though, if you can accelerate beyond that by pedalling it's ok, but the motor should cut out.
    More broadly, it's mad that e-bikes are limited to 15mph (weigh 25kg) but cars (starting at 1,500kg) are not.

    Between 2005 and 2018, 548 pedestrians were killed on pavements. 542 by drivers, 6 by cyclists.

    I think the government should gently start pushing GPS speed limiters in the next generation of cars. Black boxes too, like in Teslas.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    kamski said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two police officers in a marked van who followed two teenage boys on an electric bike before it crashed killing them both in Cardiff have been served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Office for Police Conduct said

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1668612441746587651

    Yet the police continue to wonder why they have a recruitment problem. Chase suspects and get fired.
    What offense were the two "suspects" in this incident, suspected of committing?
    If you’re thinking about getting an e-bike, you’ll need to understand the UK law for electric bikes. It’s legal to ride an e-bike in the UK without a licence, but only if it meets certain requirements: it must be pedal assist instead of ‘twist and go throttle’; and have a maximum power output of 250 watts, with a speed restriction of 15.5mph.

    It looked quicker than that to me so for starters -

    Riding without a license, riding without insurance & riding without a helmet.
    The speed limit is only for the motor assist though, if you can accelerate beyond that by pedalling it's ok, but the motor should cut out.
    It's two teenage lads on the bike not the lovechild of Bjarne Riis at the Hautacam and Eddie Mercx. They aren't pedalling to output that power.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Nottingham incident update:

    All three fatalities believed to have been stabbed. The third was two miles from the first two.
    All three injuries believed to be as a result of pedestrian collisions with the suspect’s van. One is critically ill.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/13/nottingham-incident-live-updates-police-road-closures/
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,916
    Eabhal said:

    kamski said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two police officers in a marked van who followed two teenage boys on an electric bike before it crashed killing them both in Cardiff have been served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Office for Police Conduct said

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1668612441746587651

    Yet the police continue to wonder why they have a recruitment problem. Chase suspects and get fired.
    What offense were the two "suspects" in this incident, suspected of committing?
    If you’re thinking about getting an e-bike, you’ll need to understand the UK law for electric bikes. It’s legal to ride an e-bike in the UK without a licence, but only if it meets certain requirements: it must be pedal assist instead of ‘twist and go throttle’; and have a maximum power output of 250 watts, with a speed restriction of 15.5mph.

    It looked quicker than that to me so for starters -

    Riding without a license, riding without insurance & riding without a helmet.
    The speed limit is only for the motor assist though, if you can accelerate beyond that by pedalling it's ok, but the motor should cut out.
    More broadly, it's mad that e-bikes are limited to 15mph (weigh 25kg) but cars (starting at 1,500kg) are not.

    Between 2005 and 2018, 548 pedestrians were killed on pavements. 542 by drivers, 6 by cyclists.
    You do need a license to drive a car, whereas for a bicycle you do not, so it seems sensible to put some limits on the output of a motor to be used by someone who isn't licensed.

    If you want a motorbike, then you can get a motorbike license.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    tlg86 said:

    Chris said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    The BBC's coverage of the death of the boys on the bike in Cardiff left a lot to be desired:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2hb67Gm8sM

    Is that what the BBC actually showed, with the 15-second cut in the middle?
    Yes, it was utterly disgraceful.
    The police van had been following about two seconds behind the boys when filmed earlier. The reason it was further behind in that video was that the boys went the wrong way around a large roundabout, and the van lost time going to right way.

    But in any case, it's academic how far behind the police were at any point - except that the van had obviously been pursuing the boys - because (as far as I know) no one suggests the police were close behind at the time of the crash.
    In which case, what was all the rioting about?
    From the coverage, because the police had been seen following them in the next road, and the footage was posted on social media, and probably people jumped to conclusions.

    Accurate information was hard to come by at the time. It certainly wasn't coming from the police.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,337
    Sandpit said:

    Two police officers in a marked van who followed two teenage boys on an electric bike before it crashed killing them both in Cardiff have been served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Office for Police Conduct said

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1668612441746587651

    Yet the police continue to wonder why they have a recruitment problem. Chase suspects and get fired.
    If they lied to their superiors about the whether or not they were following those kids at the time, then gross misconduct sounds entirely appropriate. If two people die & you lie about your involvement, no matter how tangential, when interviewed by the police under caution, then it’s not going to go well for you is it?

    Surely we have to hold the police to, at the very least, the standard we’d expect an ordinary member of the public to be held to in similar circumstances.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Eabhal said:

    kamski said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two police officers in a marked van who followed two teenage boys on an electric bike before it crashed killing them both in Cardiff have been served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Office for Police Conduct said

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1668612441746587651

    Yet the police continue to wonder why they have a recruitment problem. Chase suspects and get fired.
    What offense were the two "suspects" in this incident, suspected of committing?
    If you’re thinking about getting an e-bike, you’ll need to understand the UK law for electric bikes. It’s legal to ride an e-bike in the UK without a licence, but only if it meets certain requirements: it must be pedal assist instead of ‘twist and go throttle’; and have a maximum power output of 250 watts, with a speed restriction of 15.5mph.

    It looked quicker than that to me so for starters -

    Riding without a license, riding without insurance & riding without a helmet.
    The speed limit is only for the motor assist though, if you can accelerate beyond that by pedalling it's ok, but the motor should cut out.
    More broadly, it's mad that e-bikes are limited to 15mph (weigh 25kg) but cars (starting at 1,500kg) are not.

    Between 2005 and 2018, 548 pedestrians were killed on pavements. 542 by drivers, 6 by cyclists.

    I think the government should gently start pushing GPS speed limiters in the next generation of cars. Black boxes too, like in Teslas.
    There were almost no ‘e-bikes’ or ‘electric scooters’ in 2018. There’s now thousands of them, and they’re a menace.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the lawyers at the Covid Inquiry has just invoked "the effects of Brexit" as one of the factors.

    On the grounds (I'm guessing) that it sucked attention and energy away from all else.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-65876922?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=64885d84c408bd3c18cbc288&Did Brexit damage pandemic planning?&2023-06-13T12:45:00.706Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:886017fb-228f-48f4-ab23-43e762a26963&pinned_post_asset_id=64885d84c408bd3c18cbc288&pinned_post_type=share

    Did Brexit damage pandemic planning?
    Jim Reed

    Health reporter, BBC News

    In his opening address Hugo Keith KC, the lead lawyer to the inquiry, did not shy away from difficult political questions.

    The issue of Brexit and whether leaving the EU might have distracted politicians and civil servants from planning for the next pandemic is something victims’ groups have raised in the past.

    Keith said that from 2018 onwards that departure and, in particular, planning for a possible no-deal Brexit, required an “enormous amount” of preparations to address “food and medicine supplies, travel and transport, business and borders and so on”.

    “Did the attention paid to the risks of a no-deal exit, Operation Yellowhammer as it was known, drain the resources and capacity that should have been continuing the fight against the next pandemic?” he asked.

    “Or did all that generic and operational planning, in fact lead to people being better trained and well-marshalled and in fact better prepared to deal with Covid...

    Quote Message: My lady, on the evidence so far, and it will be a matter for you, we very much fear that it was the former.” from Hugo Keith KC Lead lawyer to the inquiry
    My lady, on the evidence so far, and it will be a matter for you, we very much fear that it was the former.”

    Hugo Keith KC
    Lead lawyer to the inquiry
    Given 'No Deal Prep' was mainly about political gameplaying it's more likely to have hindered not helped as regards the pandemic. So it looks like I agree with Hugo Keith.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:


    Without wishing to sound too much like HYUFD, I believe the standard answer to this by all but the most extreme of Christian fundamentalists is when Christ is reported to have said "My father's house has many rooms", which may just have been him bragging that his dad had a big place, but I believe it is interpreted as saying if you live a good and spiritual life you have a place in heaven.

    That is rather contradicted by John 14:6, though.
    If you commit to Christ you have a place in heaven yes
    What if you commit to Christ and you murder your wife?
    Then you haven't committed to Christ as he told you to love your neighbour as yourself, not to kill them.

    He also upheld the Ten Commandments laws of Moses ie including not to kill
    What if your wife is about to be killed by 20 Nazis, you are 20 yards away and have a gun. What's your next move?
    Then you turn full Old Testament God as he drowned the Egyptians in their chariots to protect the Jews!
    LOL good answer.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:


    Without wishing to sound too much like HYUFD, I believe the standard answer to this by all but the most extreme of Christian fundamentalists is when Christ is reported to have said "My father's house has many rooms", which may just have been him bragging that his dad had a big place, but I believe it is interpreted as saying if you live a good and spiritual life you have a place in heaven.

    That is rather contradicted by John 14:6, though.
    If you commit to Christ you have a place in heaven yes
    What if you commit to Christ and you murder your wife?
    Then you haven't committed to Christ as he told you to love your neighbour as yourself, not to kill them.

    He also upheld the Ten Commandments laws of Moses ie including not to kill
    What if your wife is about to be killed by 20 Nazis, you are 20 yards away and have a gun. What's your next move?
    “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword” (Matthew 26:52)
    And then again: "... he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. ... So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It is enough.”" (Luke 22:36-38).
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,303
    Farooq said:

    What if there's a trolley heading towards your wife, and you can pull a level that will divert the trolley to a branch line where it will kill three Nazis. But it turns out your wife is a Nazi too, and one of the three branch-line Nazis is pregnant. But it was an incest rape and she prays every day. And your wife, well she makes graven images.

    What then? WHAT THEN?

    You're off your trolley.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,647
    edited June 2023

    viewcode said:

    Bank of England to hoist interest rates to 5.75 per cent as experts warn UK inflation is out of control - City AM, 2023-06-13 10:22 AM

    https://www.cityam.com/bank-of-england-to-hoist-interest-rates-to-5-75-per-cent-as-experts-warn-uk-inflation-is-out-of-control/

    Poor Rishi, halving inflation is going well.
    The actual write up beneath the headline doesn’t tell us anything new, but is still not as OTT than the very wrong headed headline. It definitely won’t go as far as 5.75, it probably won’t reach 5.5. Nor do the markets think we have lost control of inflation, if they did they would be acting already.

    The truth in my opinion, Hunt and BoE want the markets to hear of such resolve, hear it at least 3 times a day, so probably slip the media these stories themselves. In my opinion inflation will be below 5 in the new year, so a success for Rishi Sunak. But a limited success in inflation at 5% doesn’t mean problems gone away, the next round of pay deals will need to be around 5% inflation.

    This article seems to suggest Pay is responsible for underlying inflation going up. Truth is wage growth has been high. But there could also be other factors such as price gouging which Hunt and BoE don’t wish the media to flag up.

    So many PBers, brains addled with too much freemarket ideology, post about UK better than expected growth and better than expected wage growth as though these things are always good in all situations. This is where PB free marketeers don’t understand the important subtleties of Thatcherism. Growth during overheating and high inflation is not great news if it means gains just getting eaten up by inflation so arn’t real gain at all.

    If it sounds like I am calling quite a lot of PBs and their “growth and wage growth, lovely jubbly” posts stupid and naive in this situation, the truth is, I am.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,730
    edited June 2023

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    A Boris Johnson mea culpa!

    Not from the great man himself obviously.


    Elitist institution produces elitists shocker. It's just a finishing school for chancers and sociopaths. We'd be better off without it.
    Yea, great idea, let us just dumb down everything. The human eco-system needs elites, being chippy about Eton or Harrow doesn't change that. Why do you think so many working class and middle class parents boast about their children "going into medicine"? It is because being a doctor is seen as being in the elite. Whether medicine is an elite, or even whether it should be is by the by. It is seen as such.

    We need elites. Railing against that reality is just socialist chippy bollox.
    That depends which kinds of elite, I would say. British TV has been dumbed down, partly, and for instance, because of what could be described as anti-elitist arguments during the 1990's, from what I also suppose one could describe as 'chippy populists' like Rupert Murdoch, and Tory politicians from a similar background supporting him.

    On the other hand, particularly since the 1980's, Eton has seemed to me to be more often promoting, like a few other schools, much more often an elitist ethos of wealth, power and privilege, than service, culture or intellect, as in the letter from the sadly regretful Etonian teacher below, and as was quoted in the Times.
    It is a good post, and I think you have nailed it to some extent. Basically people like the elites that they like or approve of, and loathe those that they don't. Hence it is possible for left leaning people to be massively supine and obsequious to someone because they are a doctor who works for the NHS, even if he (as many have) been educated at Eton, while railing against the terrible elitism of an individual who went to a minor public school who is a hedge fund manager or Tory politician.

    It is all best described as irrational hypocrisy.
    OTOH, there are rather more training and ongoing quality control for the one career than the others.
    Harold Shipman says hi
    25 years ago, though. Would be even worse than our PBTories going on about Messrs Corbyn, Brown, etc.
    Most obvious and perhaps hyperbolic example, but the idea that all NHS staff are of the highest quality and that the "QC" system is beyond reproach requires a level of naivety only held by those who believe that the NHS is "the envy of the world".
    Had a recent encounter with the NHS via mother in law and it was ... not good.

    I won't go into the gory details but I have it on good authority from external sources that the ward in question is known to have a poor culture.

    The only time the nurses appeared to be doing any actual nursing was when a relief shift of Nigerians turned up at the weekend. The rest of the time they were going through the motions, whether appropriate to the patient or not.

    Though they did find time to discuss at length the best source of Prosecco from behind the desk whilst failing to feed their inmates (not joking).


    Would they be better if we paid them 20% more? I'm not sure they would.
    As someone whose wife and daughter are nurses, what you are describing is not uncommon. Unfortunately the Thursday night clap and NHS hero stuff has only exacebrated the situation.
    I wonder if it was partially burn-out from dealing with too many old ladies. Not being short of numbers, just wondering what the point of propping them all up was (which is another question, but should be tackled directly rather than just letting them rot in the corner). Even someone who starts out with good intentions could eventually lose motivation without leadership.

    How often do nurses get rotated between wards?

    You are right though, if we do too much clapping we stop asking questions.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Leon said:

    I just eagerly unwrapped my hotel pillow-chocolate and discovered it’s actually a mint

    The disappointment is surprisingly severe

    Was it like a refreshing After Eight. Those can be surprisingly good before bed, like a pillowingly melty drink, in themselves.

    What happened to After Eights, in fact.
    Bendicks >>>>>>>> After Eights.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694
    Chris said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    The BBC's coverage of the death of the boys on the bike in Cardiff left a lot to be desired:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2hb67Gm8sM

    Is that what the BBC actually showed, with the 15-second cut in the middle?
    Yes, it was utterly disgraceful.
    The police van had been following about two seconds behind the boys when filmed earlier. The reason it was further behind in that video was that the boys went the wrong way around a large roundabout, and the van lost time going to right way.

    But in any case, it's academic how far behind the police were at any point - except that the van had obviously been pursuing the boys - because (as far as I know) no one suggests the police were close behind at the time of the crash.
    I've not seen the other film. To be sure - you are not referring to the BBC doctored version?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    Chris said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:


    Without wishing to sound too much like HYUFD, I believe the standard answer to this by all but the most extreme of Christian fundamentalists is when Christ is reported to have said "My father's house has many rooms", which may just have been him bragging that his dad had a big place, but I believe it is interpreted as saying if you live a good and spiritual life you have a place in heaven.

    That is rather contradicted by John 14:6, though.
    If you commit to Christ you have a place in heaven yes
    What if you commit to Christ and you murder your wife?
    Then you haven't committed to Christ as he told you to love your neighbour as yourself, not to kill them.

    He also upheld the Ten Commandments laws of Moses ie including not to kill
    What if your wife is about to be killed by 20 Nazis, you are 20 yards away and have a gun. What's your next move?
    “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword” (Matthew 26:52)
    And then again: "... he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. ... So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It is enough.”" (Luke 22:36-38).
    Penny Mordaunt seems to have bought both the sword and her garment. Some people are just naturally greedy.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:


    Without wishing to sound too much like HYUFD, I believe the standard answer to this by all but the most extreme of Christian fundamentalists is when Christ is reported to have said "My father's house has many rooms", which may just have been him bragging that his dad had a big place, but I believe it is interpreted as saying if you live a good and spiritual life you have a place in heaven.

    That is rather contradicted by John 14:6, though.
    If you commit to Christ you have a place in heaven yes
    What if you commit to Christ and you murder your wife?
    Then you haven't committed to Christ as he told you to love your neighbour as yourself, not to kill them.

    He also upheld the Ten Commandments laws of Moses ie including not to kill
    How is Suella Braverman's approach compatible with loving your neighbour? Presumably anyone who supports Braverman cannot have truly committed to Christ either.
    They should certainly be committed somewhere.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    Farooq said:

    What if there's a trolley heading towards your wife, and you can pull a level that will divert the trolley to a branch line where it will kill three Nazis. But it turns out your wife is a Nazi too, and one of the three branch-line Nazis is pregnant. But it was an incest rape and she prays every day. And your wife, well she makes graven images.

    What then? WHAT THEN?

    I think I can answer but to check a point about the wife first. Did you marry her in church or was it just a civil ceremony?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401

    Leon said:

    I just eagerly unwrapped my hotel pillow-chocolate and discovered it’s actually a mint

    The disappointment is surprisingly severe

    Was it like a refreshing After Eight. Those can be surprisingly good before bed, like a pillowingly melty drink, in themselves.

    What happened to After Eights, in fact.
    https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/252204546
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Chris said:

    Sandpit said:

    Chris said:

    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two police officers in a marked van who followed two teenage boys on an electric bike before it crashed killing them both in Cardiff have been served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Office for Police Conduct said

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1668612441746587651

    Yet the police continue to wonder why they have a recruitment problem. Chase suspects and get fired.
    Be involved in the deaths of two kids, get investigated

    Doesn't sound quite so unfair now, does it?
    The police vehicle wasn’t involved in the accident, and was quite some distance away at the time.

    My understanding was that the suspects took a footpath between two roads, that the police van couldn’t follow them down, and were involved in a collision at the other end of the footpath where it met another road.

    The problems in which case being the design of the footpath, and the availability of overpowered electric scooters which need to be licenced as motorbikes - and very little to do with the two police officers involved.
    Oh. You don't have the excuse of ignorance, apparently.
    No.

    This is a repeat of the phone theft gangs a few years ago, before Apple made stolen phones un-useable. The police got told to back off chasing suspects, in case the suspect got injured. With the result that the gangs were granted total immunity to keep mugging people across London.
    Are you a saloon-bar ignoramus tribute act?
    I try my best to project that image. Hope you like it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    edited June 2023
    Phil said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two police officers in a marked van who followed two teenage boys on an electric bike before it crashed killing them both in Cardiff have been served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Office for Police Conduct said

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1668612441746587651

    Yet the police continue to wonder why they have a recruitment problem. Chase suspects and get fired.
    If they lied to their superiors about the whether or not they were following those kids at the time, then gross misconduct sounds entirely appropriate. If two people die & you lie about your involvement, no matter how tangential, when interviewed by the police under caution, then it’s not going to go well for you is it?

    Surely we have to hold the police to, at the very least, the standard we’d expect an ordinary member of the public to be held to in similar circumstances.
    It's possible they were trying to find them given the distance between the vehicles, and just happened to be heading in the correct direction.
    I suspect it's also well possible their superiors said they weren't following without checking with the officers involved and they got bounced into saying they weren't following.
    The investigation should find out anyway but it'll be two (more) officers on long term sick I suspect with the stress of it all.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779

    Chris said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    The BBC's coverage of the death of the boys on the bike in Cardiff left a lot to be desired:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2hb67Gm8sM

    Is that what the BBC actually showed, with the 15-second cut in the middle?
    Yes, it was utterly disgraceful.
    The police van had been following about two seconds behind the boys when filmed earlier. The reason it was further behind in that video was that the boys went the wrong way around a large roundabout, and the van lost time going to right way.

    But in any case, it's academic how far behind the police were at any point - except that the van had obviously been pursuing the boys - because (as far as I know) no one suggests the police were close behind at the time of the crash.
    I've not seen the other film. To be sure - you are not referring to the BBC doctored version?
    That's what I said. They were about two seconds behind when they were filmed earlier. They were further behind in the BBC video.

    And frankly it's very silly to call the BBC film "doctored" when it's perfectly obvious that there is a lapse of time between the two part.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223

    Far off topic - and probably way to Woke for many hyper-sensitive, over-irritable PBers:

    This past weekend, Joni Mitchell - the pride of Saskatoon, Saskatchewan - performed her first scheduled concert in many years, at the Gorge Amphitheatre, located in the middle of nowhere (or close enough) at George, Washington. (Yes, there IS

    By a woman who, following her near-fatal brain aneurysm in 2015, had to relearn how to SPEAK, let alone sing.

    Cannot tell you just how proud I am that my own state has hosted this iconic singer and songwriter, and her incredible persona AND performance.

    Then - Big Yellow Taxi - Joni Mitchell (1970)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ratQlft_G5c

    Now - Big Yellow Taxi - Joni & Friends (2023)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_0X6Rp_DsM

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gorge_Amphitheatre

    That was Big Yellow Taxi by Joni Mitchell, a song in which Joni complains they paved paradise to put up a parking lot, a measure which actually would have alleviated traffic congestion on the outskirts of paradise, something which Joni singularly fails to point out, perhaps because it doesn't quite fit in with her blinkered view of the world. Nevertheless, nice song.

    Seriously, though, very good to see.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401
    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    What if there's a trolley heading towards your wife, and you can pull a level that will divert the trolley to a branch line where it will kill three Nazis. But it turns out your wife is a Nazi too, and one of the three branch-line Nazis is pregnant. But it was an incest rape and she prays every day. And your wife, well she makes graven images.

    What then? WHAT THEN?

    I think I can answer but to check a point about the wife first. Did you marry her in church or was it just a civil ceremony?
    And which one? As we all know from the political news, at least one Christian sect does not recognise marriages made under other Christian sects.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    The BBC's coverage of the death of the boys on the bike in Cardiff left a lot to be desired:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2hb67Gm8sM

    Is that what the BBC actually showed, with the 15-second cut in the middle?
    Yes, it was utterly disgraceful.
    The police van had been following about two seconds behind the boys when filmed earlier. The reason it was further behind in that video was that the boys went the wrong way around a large roundabout, and the van lost time going to right way.

    But in any case, it's academic how far behind the police were at any point - except that the van had obviously been pursuing the boys - because (as far as I know) no one suggests the police were close behind at the time of the crash.
    I've not seen the other film. To be sure - you are not referring to the BBC doctored version?
    That's what I said. They were about two seconds behind when they were filmed earlier. They were further behind in the BBC video.

    And frankly it's very silly to call the BBC film "doctored" when it's perfectly obvious that there is a lapse of time between the two part.
    No its not silly to call it doctored - it is doctored. Just show the video in full,

    They didn't do this, partly because it is clear that the van at that time was a long way behind.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,870
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the lawyers at the Covid Inquiry has just invoked "the effects of Brexit" as one of the factors.

    On the grounds (I'm guessing) that it sucked attention and energy away from all else.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-65876922?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=64885d84c408bd3c18cbc288&Did Brexit damage pandemic planning?&2023-06-13T12:45:00.706Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:886017fb-228f-48f4-ab23-43e762a26963&pinned_post_asset_id=64885d84c408bd3c18cbc288&pinned_post_type=share

    Did Brexit damage pandemic planning?
    Jim Reed

    Health reporter, BBC News

    In his opening address Hugo Keith KC, the lead lawyer to the inquiry, did not shy away from difficult political questions.

    The issue of Brexit and whether leaving the EU might have distracted politicians and civil servants from planning for the next pandemic is something victims’ groups have raised in the past.

    Keith said that from 2018 onwards that departure and, in particular, planning for a possible no-deal Brexit, required an “enormous amount” of preparations to address “food and medicine supplies, travel and transport, business and borders and so on”.

    “Did the attention paid to the risks of a no-deal exit, Operation Yellowhammer as it was known, drain the resources and capacity that should have been continuing the fight against the next pandemic?” he asked.

    “Or did all that generic and operational planning, in fact lead to people being better trained and well-marshalled and in fact better prepared to deal with Covid...

    Quote Message: My lady, on the evidence so far, and it will be a matter for you, we very much fear that it was the former.” from Hugo Keith KC Lead lawyer to the inquiry
    My lady, on the evidence so far, and it will be a matter for you, we very much fear that it was the former.”

    Hugo Keith KC
    Lead lawyer to the inquiry
    Given 'No Deal Prep' was mainly about political gameplaying it's more likely to have hindered not helped as regards the pandemic. So it looks like I agree with Hugo Keith.
    This position requires believing that pandemic prep in Jan 2020 and pandemic prep in say Jan 2016 would be meaningfully different. The idea that we would have a genius world-beating pandemic reponse if it weren't for brexit is silly. We were caught on the hop by covid like most other countries. Doesn't mean lessons can't be learned, of course.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Farooq said:

    Thou shalt not kill

    "Thou" is the singular form, not the plural. "Ye" is the plural. God is telling us it's ok to kill as long as there are many of you doing it.

    I am sure at times for you he is tempted to make an exception but manages to resist it!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401
    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    What if there's a trolley heading towards your wife, and you can pull a level that will divert the trolley to a branch line where it will kill three Nazis. But it turns out your wife is a Nazi too, and one of the three branch-line Nazis is pregnant. But it was an incest rape and she prays every day. And your wife, well she makes graven images.

    What then? WHAT THEN?

    I think I can answer but to check a point about the wife first. Did you marry her in church or was it just a civil ceremony?
    Neither. I inherited her from my brother after he died. Like the Bible says should happen.
    Eh?? Seriously, I thought the Victorians were really against that? A case of picking the bits you like?

    https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/49722/65-year-battle-over-deceased-wifes-sisters-marriage-act
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    The BBC's coverage of the death of the boys on the bike in Cardiff left a lot to be desired:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2hb67Gm8sM

    Is that what the BBC actually showed, with the 15-second cut in the middle?
    Yes, it was utterly disgraceful.
    The police van had been following about two seconds behind the boys when filmed earlier. The reason it was further behind in that video was that the boys went the wrong way around a large roundabout, and the van lost time going to right way.

    But in any case, it's academic how far behind the police were at any point - except that the van had obviously been pursuing the boys - because (as far as I know) no one suggests the police were close behind at the time of the crash.
    I've not seen the other film. To be sure - you are not referring to the BBC doctored version?
    That's what I said. They were about two seconds behind when they were filmed earlier. They were further behind in the BBC video.
    For those who aren't aware of the other CCTV footage showing the van close behind the boys, clips can be seen here, for example (though I don't think the map at the beginningn is quite accurate as to the route):
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/may/24/cardiff-cctv-footage-seems-to-show-police-following-e-bike-just-before-crash
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    The BBC's coverage of the death of the boys on the bike in Cardiff left a lot to be desired:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2hb67Gm8sM

    Is that what the BBC actually showed, with the 15-second cut in the middle?
    Yes, it was utterly disgraceful.
    The police van had been following about two seconds behind the boys when filmed earlier. The reason it was further behind in that video was that the boys went the wrong way around a large roundabout, and the van lost time going to right way.

    But in any case, it's academic how far behind the police were at any point - except that the van had obviously been pursuing the boys - because (as far as I know) no one suggests the police were close behind at the time of the crash.
    I've not seen the other film. To be sure - you are not referring to the BBC doctored version?
    That's what I said. They were about two seconds behind when they were filmed earlier. They were further behind in the BBC video.

    And frankly it's very silly to call the BBC film "doctored" when it's perfectly obvious that there is a lapse of time between the two part.
    No its not silly to call it doctored - it is doctored. Just show the video in full,
    Utterly ridiculous.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,546
    Farooq said:

    What if there's a trolley heading towards your wife, and you can pull a level that will divert the trolley to a branch line where it will kill three Nazis. But it turns out your wife is a Nazi too, and one of the three branch-line Nazis is pregnant. But it was an incest rape and she prays every day. And your wife, well she makes graven images.

    What then? WHAT THEN?

    God smiles on results.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,069
    tlg86 said:

    Far off topic - and probably way to Woke for many hyper-sensitive, over-irritable PBers:

    This past weekend, Joni Mitchell - the pride of Saskatoon, Saskatchewan - performed her first scheduled concert in many years, at the Gorge Amphitheatre, located in the middle of nowhere (or close enough) at George, Washington. (Yes, there IS

    By a woman who, following her near-fatal brain aneurysm in 2015, had to relearn how to SPEAK, let alone sing.

    Cannot tell you just how proud I am that my own state has hosted this iconic singer and songwriter, and her incredible persona AND performance.

    Then - Big Yellow Taxi - Joni Mitchell (1970)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ratQlft_G5c

    Now - Big Yellow Taxi - Joni & Friends (2023)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_0X6Rp_DsM

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gorge_Amphitheatre

    That was Big Yellow Taxi by Joni Mitchell, a song in which Joni complains they paved paradise to put up a parking lot, a measure which actually would have alleviated traffic congestion on the outskirts of paradise, something which Joni singularly fails to point out, perhaps because it doesn't quite fit in with her blinkered view of the world. Nevertheless, nice song.

    Seriously, though, very good to see.
    The Queen is dead, long live the King Singers!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:


    Without wishing to sound too much like HYUFD, I believe the standard answer to this by all but the most extreme of Christian fundamentalists is when Christ is reported to have said "My father's house has many rooms", which may just have been him bragging that his dad had a big place, but I believe it is interpreted as saying if you live a good and spiritual life you have a place in heaven.

    That is rather contradicted by John 14:6, though.
    If you commit to Christ you have a place in heaven yes
    What if you commit to Christ and you murder your wife?
    Then you haven't committed to Christ as he told you to love your neighbour as yourself, not to kill them.

    He also upheld the Ten Commandments laws of Moses ie including not to kill
    It's an interesting point. Must you truly have faith in order to commit to Christ or can you fake it? I'd say the former. This means, when you think about it, that most people who say they are Christians probably really aren't. Because you can't intuit or logic your way to faith. My sense is only a minority of Christians genuinely have faith and these are the ones who have had an 'experience' (a real one, not a confected one) which has brought them into contact with God or what they take to be God. They've seen His face and (hence) they're a believer.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    carnforth said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the lawyers at the Covid Inquiry has just invoked "the effects of Brexit" as one of the factors.

    On the grounds (I'm guessing) that it sucked attention and energy away from all else.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-65876922?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=64885d84c408bd3c18cbc288&Did Brexit damage pandemic planning?&2023-06-13T12:45:00.706Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:886017fb-228f-48f4-ab23-43e762a26963&pinned_post_asset_id=64885d84c408bd3c18cbc288&pinned_post_type=share

    Did Brexit damage pandemic planning?
    Jim Reed

    Health reporter, BBC News

    In his opening address Hugo Keith KC, the lead lawyer to the inquiry, did not shy away from difficult political questions.

    The issue of Brexit and whether leaving the EU might have distracted politicians and civil servants from planning for the next pandemic is something victims’ groups have raised in the past.

    Keith said that from 2018 onwards that departure and, in particular, planning for a possible no-deal Brexit, required an “enormous amount” of preparations to address “food and medicine supplies, travel and transport, business and borders and so on”.

    “Did the attention paid to the risks of a no-deal exit, Operation Yellowhammer as it was known, drain the resources and capacity that should have been continuing the fight against the next pandemic?” he asked.

    “Or did all that generic and operational planning, in fact lead to people being better trained and well-marshalled and in fact better prepared to deal with Covid...

    Quote Message: My lady, on the evidence so far, and it will be a matter for you, we very much fear that it was the former.” from Hugo Keith KC Lead lawyer to the inquiry
    My lady, on the evidence so far, and it will be a matter for you, we very much fear that it was the former.”

    Hugo Keith KC
    Lead lawyer to the inquiry
    Given 'No Deal Prep' was mainly about political gameplaying it's more likely to have hindered not helped as regards the pandemic. So it looks like I agree with Hugo Keith.
    This position requires believing that pandemic prep in Jan 2020 and pandemic prep in say Jan 2016 would be meaningfully different. The idea that we would have a genius world-beating pandemic reponse if it weren't for brexit is silly. We were caught on the hop by covid like most other countries. Doesn't mean lessons can't be learned, of course.
    The was a big pandemic preparedness report on Heath Secretary Jeremy Hunt’s desk in 2016. Whatever happened to that?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,778
    Eabhal said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two police officers in a marked van who followed two teenage boys on an electric bike before it crashed killing them both in Cardiff have been served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Office for Police Conduct said

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1668612441746587651

    Yet the police continue to wonder why they have a recruitment problem. Chase suspects and get fired.
    What offense were the two "suspects" in this incident, suspected of committing?
    If you’re thinking about getting an e-bike, you’ll need to understand the UK law for electric bikes. It’s legal to ride an e-bike in the UK without a licence, but only if it meets certain requirements: it must be pedal assist instead of ‘twist and go throttle’; and have a maximum power output of 250 watts, with a speed restriction of 15.5mph.

    It looked quicker than that to me so for starters -

    Riding without a license, riding without insurance & riding without a helmet.
    It's probably the former but a Dura Ace type figure has fiddled with the electronics.
    Reflash the ESC with a torrented image to uncork the hot sauce. I've done a few. FTP.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    edited June 2023
    Amazing but true. On uniform swing, using the latest opinion polls, Labour are currently heading for 336 seats, just 10 more than they need for a majority. Peter Kellner said a few days ago that uniform swing is usually more reliable than proportional swing.

    https://pollingreport.uk/polls
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352
    HYUFD said:


    Without wishing to sound too much like HYUFD, I believe the standard answer to this by all but the most extreme of Christian fundamentalists is when Christ is reported to have said "My father's house has many rooms", which may just have been him bragging that his dad had a big place, but I believe it is interpreted as saying if you live a good and spiritual life you have a place in heaven.

    That is rather contradicted by John 14:6, though.
    If you commit to Christ you have a place in heaven yes
    Your interpretations are very literal, which I am sure is very comforting for you but not very nuanced, nor very satisfying for those who look for deeper meaning.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    Leon said:
    I remember a lot of articles about the Islamic slavery of schoolgirls in Nigeria by Boko Haram.

    But perhaps that doesn't count.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:
    I remember a lot of articles about the Islamic slavery of schoolgirls in Nigeria by Boko Haram.

    But perhaps that doesn't count.
    How many Brits realise that Barbary pirates would seize entire Cornish villages - for slavery - as late as the 17/18th century?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:


    Without wishing to sound too much like HYUFD, I believe the standard answer to this by all but the most extreme of Christian fundamentalists is when Christ is reported to have said "My father's house has many rooms", which may just have been him bragging that his dad had a big place, but I believe it is interpreted as saying if you live a good and spiritual life you have a place in heaven.

    That is rather contradicted by John 14:6, though.
    If you commit to Christ you have a place in heaven yes
    What if you commit to Christ and you murder your wife?
    Then you haven't committed to Christ as he told you to love your neighbour as yourself, not to kill them.

    He also upheld the Ten Commandments laws of Moses ie including not to kill
    It's an interesting point. Must you truly have faith in order to commit to Christ or can you fake it? I'd say the former. This means, when you think about it, that most people who say they are Christians probably really aren't. Because you can't intuit or logic your way to faith. My sense is only a minority of Christians genuinely have faith and these are the ones who have had an 'experience' (a real one, not a confected one) which has brought them into contact with God or what they take to be God. They've seen His face and (hence) they're a believer.
    Most will regularly have doubts. Those who claim they do not are either lying or mad.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    I just eagerly unwrapped my hotel pillow-chocolate and discovered it’s actually a mint

    The disappointment is surprisingly severe

    I once - in a hotel in Bruges - eagerly unwrapped my hotel pillow chocolate and was disappointed and bemused to find that it appeared actually to be a sleeping pill.
    I didn't use it.
    The hotel also had the slowest and smallest lift I have ever been in. Two people could fit in it, but not if they had any luggage.
    Blue tablet?

    It may not have been a sleeping pill.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,778
    The sinister imagery of "a Dura Ace type figure" did make me laugh.

    Going to take the baffle out of the exhaust on my new M1000RR now.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    carnforth said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the lawyers at the Covid Inquiry has just invoked "the effects of Brexit" as one of the factors.

    On the grounds (I'm guessing) that it sucked attention and energy away from all else.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-65876922?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=64885d84c408bd3c18cbc288&Did Brexit damage pandemic planning?&2023-06-13T12:45:00.706Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:886017fb-228f-48f4-ab23-43e762a26963&pinned_post_asset_id=64885d84c408bd3c18cbc288&pinned_post_type=share

    Did Brexit damage pandemic planning?
    Jim Reed

    Health reporter, BBC News

    In his opening address Hugo Keith KC, the lead lawyer to the inquiry, did not shy away from difficult political questions.

    The issue of Brexit and whether leaving the EU might have distracted politicians and civil servants from planning for the next pandemic is something victims’ groups have raised in the past.

    Keith said that from 2018 onwards that departure and, in particular, planning for a possible no-deal Brexit, required an “enormous amount” of preparations to address “food and medicine supplies, travel and transport, business and borders and so on”.

    “Did the attention paid to the risks of a no-deal exit, Operation Yellowhammer as it was known, drain the resources and capacity that should have been continuing the fight against the next pandemic?” he asked.

    “Or did all that generic and operational planning, in fact lead to people being better trained and well-marshalled and in fact better prepared to deal with Covid...

    Quote Message: My lady, on the evidence so far, and it will be a matter for you, we very much fear that it was the former.” from Hugo Keith KC Lead lawyer to the inquiry
    My lady, on the evidence so far, and it will be a matter for you, we very much fear that it was the former.”

    Hugo Keith KC
    Lead lawyer to the inquiry
    Given 'No Deal Prep' was mainly about political gameplaying it's more likely to have hindered not helped as regards the pandemic. So it looks like I agree with Hugo Keith.
    This position requires believing that pandemic prep in Jan 2020 and pandemic prep in say Jan 2016 would be meaningfully different. The idea that we would have a genius world-beating pandemic reponse if it weren't for brexit is silly. We were caught on the hop by covid like most other countries. Doesn't mean lessons can't be learned, of course.
    Nobody sane believes that absent Brexit we'd have been all fully prepped and chanting "come and have a go if you think you're hard enough" at Covid when it first reared its ugly head. But you don't have to believe that to think (as Hugo and I do) that it more likely hindered than helped.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Dura_Ace said:

    Eabhal said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two police officers in a marked van who followed two teenage boys on an electric bike before it crashed killing them both in Cardiff have been served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Office for Police Conduct said

    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1668612441746587651

    Yet the police continue to wonder why they have a recruitment problem. Chase suspects and get fired.
    What offense were the two "suspects" in this incident, suspected of committing?
    If you’re thinking about getting an e-bike, you’ll need to understand the UK law for electric bikes. It’s legal to ride an e-bike in the UK without a licence, but only if it meets certain requirements: it must be pedal assist instead of ‘twist and go throttle’; and have a maximum power output of 250 watts, with a speed restriction of 15.5mph.

    It looked quicker than that to me so for starters -

    Riding without a license, riding without insurance & riding without a helmet.
    It's probably the former but a Dura Ace type figure has fiddled with the electronics.
    Reflash the ESC with a torrented image to uncork the hot sauce. I've done a few. FTP.
    Yes, it’s a classic case of legislation failing to keep up with the technology.

    As with more tradional motor vehicles, the way forward is regulated importers, who can be required to take steps to prevent obvious modifications that circumvent the law. That, and compulsory registration of all motor vehicles with a motor rated at more than x kW.
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