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Oh my God – politicalbetting.com

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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,512
    ...

    ...

    DavidL said:

    Keir Starmer:


    Man's an alky.
    There are whispers.
    He does seem to like a pint, which clearly proves his tofu eating wokerati credentials.
    It didn't exactly go off like this, but he also did something like clipped a cyclist in his car a while ago, and I think drove off?
    This one from the Guardian?

    A spokesman for Starmer said: “Keir was involved in a minor road traffic accident on Sunday.

    “He spoke to a British Transport Police officer who attended the scene and swapped details with the officer and the other individual involved.

    “Keir stayed at the scene until the ambulance arrived. Later that afternoon, he reported the incident to a police station in accordance with the law. Since the incident, Keir has also been in touch with the other individual involved.”

    The Metropolitan police refused to confirm Starmer’s involvement, but said the driver was not arrested.
  • Options
    The National front page tomorrow: SNP Unveils New Reforms Package
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    RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,169
    felix said:

    felix said:

    carnforth said:

    Given complete CON and SNP meltdown, is LAB now expecting 400 minimum at the GE??

    Why would you assume SNP meltdown from this? It's not a given.
    Well their polling has declined from the mid-forties to the high-thirties in the last four months, so it's had some impact so far.
    The most recent poll saw Labour down 3, Conservative up 2 and the SNP up 4.
    It had the SNP on 37%, which is still significantly lower than their polling a few months back.
    Then there's also the recent Scotland YouGov MRP and Best for Britain MRP which predicted significant gains for SLAB.
    Both of the latter were not based on the most recent poll which as you know saw movement away from Labour. The initial Labour boost may already be waning. Those Labour gains are far from in the bag.
    Isn't this a bit like the PB Tories proclaiming Starmer was toast when the GE polls started to narrow before the local elections? It's a bit much to assume all previous SNP voters will switch back at the GE, especially on the basis of one poll.
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    eekeek Posts: 25,114
    edited June 2023

    The National front page tomorrow: SNP Unveils New Prison Reforms Package

    FTFY I think...
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,890

    CatMan said:

    I don’t admit to any great insight.
    I still don’t know what a furin cleavage is.
    A lab leak seemed - Occam’s razor - the simplest explanation.

    And none of the avowals that it just couldn’t be ever seemed terribly convincing,

    And a robber button is?
    I’ve no idea what a “robber button” is.
    Is it something you’ve had to have installed chez Casino because you saw a gypsy at the bottom of the lane?
    https://youtu.be/Tkb9SIe4WWo?t=63
    Apparently so.
    Broadcast in 1987.

    Blackadder was and remains v funny, but there’s something a bit necrophiliac about constantly invoking it through emphysemic wheezes of hilarity.
    That's called having a sense of humour.

    Never trust someone without one.
    Do you wear “amusing” ties, too?
    I bet you do.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,288
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dramatic, however we must remember just because Sturgeon has been arrested doesn't mean she will be charged. Not a great weekend for the SNP now either not just the Conservatives

    so Tory, Labour and SNP leaders all investigated by police.

    But only two face further action…
    Sir Ed Davey: Once again the LDs are ignored! We deserve the same level of police scrutiny!
    Police: What's a LD?
    Your former leader was on trial for conspiracy to murder in the late 1970s, albeit Thorpe was acquitted as portrayed in the brilliant Hugh Grant drama a few years ago
    Exactly: go big or go home.

    Trump (Republican): documents. Boring.
    Johnson (Conservative): covid rules. Lame.
    Sturgeon (SNP): accounting. Yawn.

    Thope (Liberal): murder.

    Which one stands out? Which one is the creme de la creme?

    That's right. The liberal.
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,342

    ...

    ...

    DavidL said:

    Keir Starmer:


    Man's an alky.
    There are whispers.
    He does seem to like a pint, which clearly proves his tofu eating wokerati credentials.
    It didn't exactly go off like this, but he also did something like clipped a cyclist in his car a while ago, and I think drove off?
    This one from the Guardian?

    A spokesman for Starmer said: “Keir was involved in a minor road traffic accident on Sunday.

    “He spoke to a British Transport Police officer who attended the scene and swapped details with the officer and the other individual involved.

    “Keir stayed at the scene until the ambulance arrived. Later that afternoon, he reported the incident to a police station in accordance with the law. Since the incident, Keir has also been in touch with the other individual involved.”

    The Metropolitan police refused to confirm Starmer’s involvement, but said the driver was not arrested.
    There were other stories floating about at the time. One that Sir Keir fled into the night and only presented himself to the Old Bill some time later.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,130
    edited June 2023
    In looking at the news story about Sturgeon I see a story from a few weeks ago about the police saying they will resist political interference, which includes a grand old quote.

    The party's former spin doctor recently attacked the investigation as a "grotesque spectacle".

    Murray Foote said he was prepared to bet £5 on there being no charges after the investigation had concluded.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65709243

    Now, I think there's a decent shot of their being no charges made myself. But I don't think claiming to be willing to wager a whole £5 on that outcome expresses the confidence in that outcome Mr Foote thinks it does.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,785
    kinabalu said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I’m sorry for being right about everything. I know it’s annoying


    We discussed this while you were busy posting your holiday photos.
    Nonetheless, I was right, wasn’t I? All those months and years ago, when I told you: IT CAME FROM THE LAB

    At one point I was the only person on PB voicing that opinion, to the derision of all others. Indeed I was about to give up, until @Gardenwalker - bless him - said “you know, you might be on to something”

    Think that was late 2020?
    Um, piss off. I most certainly did not deride anyone for theorising that it came from a lab. Once the lab's work and location were known, it was the only remotely sensible theory.
    How do you account for MERS? And the original SARS?
    I don't account for them. I don't know remotely enough about their origins to posit any sort of theory. This is whataboutery.
    It’s really not. It’s making the point that all known epidemics in the history of man have been natural in origin. That does not preclude covid being the result of genetic manipulation in the WIV but it makes it having a natural source eminently plausible, in the way all the others ones started by crossing species to man.
    Yes, in the absence of proof or near proof Natural is the default. For Lab to become favourite requires evidence compatible with Lab and incompatible with Natural. Just the first doesn't cut it.
    The overwhelming circumstantial evidence makes lab leak the default in this case. As it was from the start. A novel bat coronavirus with strange manipulations at the furin cleavage site making it more dangerous for humans emerges in the ONLY city in the world with a bio lab playing with novel bat coronaviruses, and doing so by manipulating the furin cleavage site to make the viruses more dangerous for humans?

    What are the odds on there being NO connection between these two things? About a thousand to
    one against

    So it’s the natural wet marketeers who have all the proving to do. And despite three years of strenuous effort what proof have they managed to find? None. Zero. Nil. Nada. Nuffink. Every paper that claims to find a link with the market has been savagely debunked soon after

    Meanwhile the evidence for a lab leak grows with more and more revelations of secrecy and cover up - to the extent that the Chinese themselves are now saying Hell yeah, it could be the lab

    At this point piously believing in a natural origin is a basic intelligence test. Which you have failed

    It is weird how this has become political. It is - generally - a few people on the left who are still desperate to believe it came from the market. As we see here. Why? Is it really coz trump said “lab leak” three years ago? Does he bother you that much?

    This is not politics. It’s basic logic. Get over yourselves. It almost certainly came from the lab

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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,574
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dramatic, however we must remember just because Sturgeon has been arrested doesn't mean she will be charged. Not a great weekend for the SNP now either not just the Conservatives

    so Tory, Labour and SNP leaders all investigated by police.

    But only two face further action…
    Sir Ed Davey: Once again the LDs are ignored! We deserve the same level of police scrutiny!
    Police: What's a LD?
    Your former leader was on trial for conspiracy to murder in the late 1970s, albeit Thorpe was acquitted as portrayed in the brilliant Hugh Grant drama a few years ago
    Exactly: go big or go home.

    Trump (Republican): documents. Boring.
    Johnson (Conservative): covid rules. Lame.
    Sturgeon (SNP): accounting. Yawn.

    Thope (Liberal): murder.

    Which one stands out? Which one is the creme de la creme?

    That's right. The liberal.
    On a point of order:

    It was *attempted* murder.

    The assassin shot the dog instead by mistake.

    I realise this made it worse in the eyes of the British public.

    But it also led to one of the great comedy one-liners:

    'a man incapable of carrying out a simple murder plot without cocking the whole thing up.'
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    TresTres Posts: 2,272

    CatMan said:

    I don’t admit to any great insight.
    I still don’t know what a furin cleavage is.
    A lab leak seemed - Occam’s razor - the simplest explanation.

    And none of the avowals that it just couldn’t be ever seemed terribly convincing,

    And a robber button is?
    I’ve no idea what a “robber button” is.
    Is it something you’ve had to have installed chez Casino because you saw a gypsy at the bottom of the lane?
    https://youtu.be/Tkb9SIe4WWo?t=63
    Apparently so.
    Broadcast in 1987.

    Blackadder was and remains v funny, but there’s something a bit necrophiliac about constantly invoking it through emphysemic wheezes of hilarity.
    That's called having a sense of humour.

    Never trust someone without one.
    Do you wear “amusing” ties, too?
    I bet you do.
    endlessly quoting Blackadder or the Young Ones is no more indication of having a sense of humour than the old farts who used to tediously regurgitate Spike Milligan, Tony Hancock or Monty Python lines.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,821

    Sean_F said:

    carnforth said:

    Given complete CON and SNP meltdown, is LAB now expecting 400 minimum at the GE??

    Why would you assume SNP meltdown from this? It's not a given.
    Like Sinn Fein, the SNP have a huge core vote who don’t actually care what their politicians do, so long as they’re sticking it to them uns.
    Rather like the Conservative Party, then?
    We support the Conservative Party because, now the grown-ups are in charge, we think the country is on the right path and we think that as facepalmy as they are that Labour will be worse.

    I know that's a tedious/tired/unfashionable view, particularly because they've been in office for 13 years and everyone is fed up with them, but it also happens to be true.

    Starmer is a tedious tactical triangulator, who will say whatever he need to say to get elected and only then show his true colours, but even the rather limited policy platform he's declared so far shows him to be a rather inept and destructive Leftist.

    He is not to be trusted.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,574
    Tres said:

    CatMan said:

    I don’t admit to any great insight.
    I still don’t know what a furin cleavage is.
    A lab leak seemed - Occam’s razor - the simplest explanation.

    And none of the avowals that it just couldn’t be ever seemed terribly convincing,

    And a robber button is?
    I’ve no idea what a “robber button” is.
    Is it something you’ve had to have installed chez Casino because you saw a gypsy at the bottom of the lane?
    https://youtu.be/Tkb9SIe4WWo?t=63
    Apparently so.
    Broadcast in 1987.

    Blackadder was and remains v funny, but there’s something a bit necrophiliac about constantly invoking it through emphysemic wheezes of hilarity.
    That's called having a sense of humour.

    Never trust someone without one.
    Do you wear “amusing” ties, too?
    I bet you do.
    endlessly quoting Blackadder or the Young Ones is no more indication of having a sense of humour than the old farts who used to tediously regurgitate Spike Milligan, Tony Hancock or Monty Python lines.
    Hancock? You were lucky. We used to dream of regurgitating Hancock...
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,821

    CatMan said:

    I don’t admit to any great insight.
    I still don’t know what a furin cleavage is.
    A lab leak seemed - Occam’s razor - the simplest explanation.

    And none of the avowals that it just couldn’t be ever seemed terribly convincing,

    And a robber button is?
    I’ve no idea what a “robber button” is.
    Is it something you’ve had to have installed chez Casino because you saw a gypsy at the bottom of the lane?
    https://youtu.be/Tkb9SIe4WWo?t=63
    Apparently so.
    Broadcast in 1987.

    Blackadder was and remains v funny, but there’s something a bit necrophiliac about constantly invoking it through emphysemic wheezes of hilarity.
    That's called having a sense of humour.

    Never trust someone without one.
    Do you wear “amusing” ties, too?
    I bet you do.
    You'd have gone down well in Nazi Germany.
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    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,032
    Because of the thread header, I’ve had this going round my head: https://youtu.be/31GExevajdY
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,872
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:
    He's a very odd man. Why spend so much time fiddling about with a social media app and trolling the libs on it, when he could be presenting as a visionary futurist working on rockets, electric cars and silly hyperloops?
    My theory of Elon is that you can achieve great things in America if you're

    * rich
    * energetic
    * audacious
    * charismatic
    * sociopathic
    * have no sense of shame
    * easily led
    * getting advice from smart people

    The problem is that that last one is kind of random, and if you end up surrounded by aging, increasingly reactionary rich people who did too much cocaine in the 90s you end up believing their bullshit, but also acting on it.
    At both Tesla and SpaceX, he was able to hire the best in the sector, relatively cheaply (in the first because no one else was in it, and the second thanks to NASA layoffs, and sclerotic commercial competitors).

    Who is the sector would see Twitter as the most exciting place to work ?
    Tesla and SpaceX were about stuff actually happening. Time Mueller was a senior rocket engine designer who had so little rocket engine designing to do, he started building his own, at home, in the garage - 13,000lb thrust, IIRC. He met Elon while looking for a test stand.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,130

    CatMan said:

    I don’t admit to any great insight.
    I still don’t know what a furin cleavage is.
    A lab leak seemed - Occam’s razor - the simplest explanation.

    And none of the avowals that it just couldn’t be ever seemed terribly convincing,

    And a robber button is?
    I’ve no idea what a “robber button” is.
    Is it something you’ve had to have installed chez Casino because you saw a gypsy at the bottom of the lane?
    https://youtu.be/Tkb9SIe4WWo?t=63
    Apparently so.
    Broadcast in 1987.

    Blackadder was and remains v funny, but there’s something a bit necrophiliac about constantly invoking it through emphysemic wheezes of hilarity.
    That's called having a sense of humour.

    Never trust someone without one.
    Do you wear “amusing” ties, too?
    I bet you do.
    You'd have gone down well in Nazi Germany.
    Well, it is true they did not watch Blackadder in Nazi Germany.
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited June 2023

    Leon said:

    FPT :

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:
    It’s all staring to get a bit silly now…
    I must say I think the reverse.

    There's so many named recent official sources, which is new.
    What counts is evidence which can be expertly examined and re-examined and reported on according to peer reviewed science standards. Adjectives and hearsay don't count. That which is merely unexplained visual phenomena doesn't count either. We can't explain lots of things - consciousness, the origin of the universe, the reason why the law of gravity is how it is and not different, why we see yellow as yellow and not green, how life began and so on - but we don't attribute it to aliens.

    As and when there is a real story it isn't going to be confined to websites no-one has heard of. There is a fortune out there for real scientists and accurate journalists, and they will get it if they can.

    The rest is noise.

    I wouldn't quite agree with this point of view. Much of the new information is already out there on mainstream news sources, for instance. What we have here, I think, is an entirely new situation where there are multiple current-serving or recently, named governmental officials making extraordinary claims, but for whom there seems to a great deal of legislation preventing them going further. So I would say still this seems to be primarily an issue about process, for the moment, rather than materials or evidence yet.

    This is why the focus in the U.S is shifting to new Congressional hearings, and possible changes in the law to make further whistleblowing on this topic more easy.

    And an awful lot more current serving or recent officials pouring scorn on the idea.

    It’s grift, pure and simple, and it’s conning people who want to believe.
    Well, let's do a little bit of a cut-and-paste of all the most credible recent sources, and do a sort of compilation of them, to see how they stack up.

    When I have some time in a a bit, I will nose about and put them all together.
    Kind of a problem when there are no credible sources, just grifters and lunatics.
    This is a good piece on the latest UFO flap, and why it is different from all others. It makes the point I have been making for many months (but maybe you will accept it from the NYT if not from me) - even if you discount any idea of actual non human intelligence, the level of disclosure is now so high and detailed and “legitimate” something really really WEIRD is happening in the US government. At the very least. And smart people should now pay attention to this story


    Indeed. What we have in fact is a completely new situation of multiple, current or near-current US official sources making UFO claims.

    That 's certainly very interesting, at the least.
    And when China is knocking on their door, they will regret deeply investing time and resources in creating such a frivolous ruse.
    Although we can't say for sure if it's any ruse, ofcourse. What strikes me as very interesting is how different Grusch's profile has been from the image of a the classic UFO claimant. Currently serving, or very recently serving, young and bushy-tailed and preciously promoted and bright, and deep inside a US intelligence agency. That's a very similar profile to Edward Snowden, and he even has some of his earnest expression.

    He may even be aware of the parallels, and is using him as his template. It's all very fascinating, and a story that bears following as it develops, I would say.

  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,466

    Keir Starmer is incredibly lucky.

    This isn't about Starmer.
    No you are right, this is Nippy's special day and Boris' big weekend.

    Starmer should but out!
    Arrived at our hotel in Liverpool before we sail to the IOM tomorrow at the same time the news broke in our hotel room

    My wife and I collapsed laughing when we remember her reaction to Jo Swinson losing her seat at the last GE

    Not laughing now are we Nicola?

    Looks as if the next parliament will be a Starmer and labour walk over

    Mind you, then the hard work begins

  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,872
    OT

    This saga reminds me of DK Brown on Victoria vs Camperdown

    “The author is pleased that he is not called upon to explain these events”

    I can get as far as the camper van was some kind of temporary accommodation.

    The rest just defies explanation - not having auditors is a thing that will end badly, inevitably.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,512

    ...

    ...

    DavidL said:

    Keir Starmer:


    Man's an alky.
    There are whispers.
    He does seem to like a pint, which clearly proves his tofu eating wokerati credentials.
    It didn't exactly go off like this, but he also did something like clipped a cyclist in his car a while ago, and I think drove off?
    This one from the Guardian?

    A spokesman for Starmer said: “Keir was involved in a minor road traffic accident on Sunday.

    “He spoke to a British Transport Police officer who attended the scene and swapped details with the officer and the other individual involved.

    “Keir stayed at the scene until the ambulance arrived. Later that afternoon, he reported the incident to a police station in accordance with the law. Since the incident, Keir has also been in touch with the other individual involved.”

    The Metropolitan police refused to confirm Starmer’s involvement, but said the driver was not arrested.
    There were other stories floating about at the time. One that Sir Keir fled into the night and only presented himself to the Old Bill some time later.
    Around these parts (Cowbridge) we call that a "Jamie", particularly if cross dressing accompanies the post road accident flight.
  • Options
    RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,169
    Worth pointing out that the Absolute Boy managed to win 7 seats in Scotland against the SNP when they weren't scandal ridden and led by Nicola Sturgeon.
    Do people really think Starmer will do worse or no better than the Absolute Boy?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,785

    Leon said:

    FPT :

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:
    It’s all staring to get a bit silly now…
    I must say I think the reverse.

    There's so many named recent official sources, which is new.
    What counts is evidence which can be expertly examined and re-examined and reported on according to peer reviewed science standards. Adjectives and hearsay don't count. That which is merely unexplained visual phenomena doesn't count either. We can't explain lots of things - consciousness, the origin of the universe, the reason why the law of gravity is how it is and not different, why we see yellow as yellow and not green, how life began and so on - but we don't attribute it to aliens.

    As and when there is a real story it isn't going to be confined to websites no-one has heard of. There is a fortune out there for real scientists and accurate journalists, and they will get it if they can.

    The rest is noise.

    I wouldn't quite agree with this point of view. Much of the new information is already out there on mainstream news sources, for instance. What we have here, I think, is an entirely new situation where there are multiple current-serving or recently, named governmental officials making extraordinary claims, but for whom there seems to a great deal of legislation preventing them going further. So I would say still this seems to be primarily an issue about process, for the moment, rather than materials or evidence yet.

    This is why the focus in the U.S is shifting to new Congressional hearings, and possible changes in the law to make further whistleblowing on this topic more easy.

    And an awful lot more current serving or recent officials pouring scorn on the idea.

    It’s grift, pure and simple, and it’s conning people who want to believe.
    Well, let's do a little bit of a cut-and-paste of all the most credible recent sources, and do a sort of compilation of them, to see how they stack up.

    When I have some time in a a bit, I will nose about and put them all together.
    Kind of a problem when there are no credible sources, just grifters and lunatics.
    This is a good piece on the latest UFO flap, and why it is different from all others. It makes the point I have been making for many months (but maybe you will accept it from the NYT if not from me) - even if you discount any idea of actual non human intelligence, the level of disclosure is now so high and detailed and “legitimate” something really really WEIRD is happening in the US government. At the very least. And smart people should now pay attention to this story


    Indeed. What we have in fact is a completely new situation of multiple, current or near-current US official sources making UFO claims.

    That 's certainly very interesting, at the least.
    And when China is knocking on their door, they will regret deeply investing time and resources in creating such a frivolous ruse.
    Although we can't say for sure if it's any ruse, ofcourse. What strikes me as very interesting is how differenr Grusch's profile has been from the classic UFO claimants. Currently serving, or very recently serving, preciously promoted and bright, and deep inside a US intelligence agency. That's a very similar profile to Edward Snowden, and he even has some of his earnest expression.

    He may even be aware of the parallels, using him as his template. It's all fascinating, I would say,

    Yes. The LEAST interesting explanation for all this: the Americans are conducting a vast black psyops campaign, involving presidents, senators, generals, spies, to convince the Chinese they have alien technology - is itself incredibly fascinating and hard
    to believe

    From there the explanations only get weirder. At some point Actual Aliens becomes more credible than Not Aliens
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,796
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I’m sorry for being right about everything. I know it’s annoying


    We discussed this while you were busy posting your holiday photos.
    Nonetheless, I was right, wasn’t I? All those months and years ago, when I told you: IT CAME FROM THE LAB

    At one point I was the only person on PB voicing that opinion, to the derision of all others. Indeed I was about to give up, until @Gardenwalker - bless him - said “you know, you might be on to something”

    Think that was late 2020?
    I've always thought that it came from the lab. However, I didn't spam the site by voicing that opinion 20 times a day.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,519
    edited June 2023

    Well, well, well.

    Not surprising for anyone following the story, though.

    Starmer appears to be a very lucky general.

    Corbyn, Johnson, Sturgeon.
    Keir is not the PM we want, but maybe he’s the PM we need.
    I saw him today with a korma. Can of beer in his hand ...

    No but seriously, yes to your point and I think the 2 things are correlated. He's the PM we need precisely because he's not the one that what we want (honey). Oh ffs stop it with the songs and make your point, kuntibula, it's a good one.

    Ok so what I mean is, we only want an individual as PM if they enthuse and entertain and stimulate - which entails talking bollocks about 'transforming this great country of ours' etc etc and pretending they can do that. A bullshitter. Such a person isn't who we need (obvs) and therefore who we need must by definition be someone we don't want.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,629
    Massive black cloud visible from my place in east London. Must be over west London, not coming this way though. Judging from FlightRadar24, lots of flights into Heathrow taking the scenic route to land there!
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,872
    I think that the longer a party is in power and the longer they don’t have effective opposition, the worse the eventual smash.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,114

    Worth pointing out that the Absolute Boy managed to win 7 seats in Scotland against the SNP when they weren't scandal ridden and led by Nicola Sturgeon.
    Do people really think Starmer will do worse or no better than the Absolute Boy?

    At the moment I cannot see Labour getting less than 15 seats in Scotland and possibly a lot more.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,130

    I think that the longer a party is in power and the longer they don’t have effective opposition, the worse the eventual smash.

    They have reasonably effective opposition now, but it is making things worse.

    I think the longer they are in power full stop the greater the risk of worsening the eventual smash, opposition be damned.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,748
    Same.

    GB News has Neil Hamilton commenting on Sturgeon's arrest.

    All the jokes I want to make would be contempt of court.


    https://twitter.com/stephenpollard/status/1667916612698095616
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,512
    edited June 2023

    Sean_F said:

    carnforth said:

    Given complete CON and SNP meltdown, is LAB now expecting 400 minimum at the GE??

    Why would you assume SNP meltdown from this? It's not a given.
    Like Sinn Fein, the SNP have a huge core vote who don’t actually care what their politicians do, so long as they’re sticking it to them uns.
    Rather like the Conservative Party, then?
    We support the Conservative Party because, now the grown-ups are in charge, we think the country is on the right path and we think that as facepalmy as they are that Labour will be worse.

    I know that's a tedious/tired/unfashionable view, particularly because they've been in office for 13 years and everyone is fed up with them, but it also happens to be true.

    Starmer is a tedious tactical triangulator, who will say whatever he need to say to get elected and only then show his true colours, but even the rather limited policy platform he's declared so far shows him to be a rather inept and destructive Leftist.

    He is not to be trusted.
    But you (Casino) also "support(ed) the Conservative Party...(because) we think the country is on the right path and facepalmy as they are that Labour will be worse", even when you had a brace of f***tards running your show.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,447
    Boris resignation dishonours list widely decried as a disgrace
    Go Nads
    Boris handed the Standards Committee report
    Go Boris
    Tory mouth-breathers swamp the media getting booked (e.g. Any Questions)
    Tory civil war binfire burns a little brighter
    Nippie nicked

    What's that - 48 hours?
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,651

    Sean_F said:

    carnforth said:

    Given complete CON and SNP meltdown, is LAB now expecting 400 minimum at the GE??

    Why would you assume SNP meltdown from this? It's not a given.
    Like Sinn Fein, the SNP have a huge core vote who don’t actually care what their politicians do, so long as they’re sticking it to them uns.
    Rather like the Conservative Party, then?
    We support the Conservative Party because, now the grown-ups are in charge, we think the country is on the right path and we think that as facepalmy as they are that Labour will be worse.

    I know that's a tedious/tired/unfashionable view, particularly because they've been in office for 13 years and everyone is fed up with them, but it also happens to be true.

    Starmer is a tedious tactical triangulator, who will say whatever he need to say to get elected and only then show his true colours, but even the rather limited policy platform he's declared so far shows him to be a rather inept and destructive Leftist.

    He is not to be trusted.
    Hm. I know you don't do self-doubt, but surely you recognise that diatribe is simply your opinion, rather than what "happens to be true"? Other opinions are available.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,872
    kle4 said:

    I think that the longer a party is in power and the longer they don’t have effective opposition, the worse the eventual smash.

    They have reasonably effective opposition now, but it is making things worse.

    I think the longer they are in power full stop the greater the risk of worsening the eventual smash, opposition be damned.
    The eventually effective opposition is part of the inevitable smash.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,130
    Back on Boris, I find Farage's comments on the matter to be rather sad in a way. He knows he just cannot make Reform as relevant as UKIP or Brexit, for all he'll get invites or shows on GB or what have you, so he's trying to tag on to Boris, who is far more box office still, to puff himself up.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,748
    Absolutely love that Sturgeon’s closest ally is only prepared to put a fiver on her innocence



    https://twitter.com/OliviaUtley/status/1667913791118401537/photo/1
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,629

    Same.

    GB News has Neil Hamilton commenting on Sturgeon's arrest.

    All the jokes I want to make would be contempt of court.


    https://twitter.com/stephenpollard/status/1667916612698095616

    Not just Neil, his wife Christine is on the SAME panel!
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,316
    Apparently all rail traffic in Crimea has been stopped, and coincidentally there are reports that the Ukrainians have been able to sever the main rail link into Crimea from Melitopol.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193
    Crimea just got a bit more cut off.... Before the bridge goes, obs.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR/status/1667912403588087810
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,785
    edited June 2023

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I’m sorry for being right about everything. I know it’s annoying


    We discussed this while you were busy posting your holiday photos.
    Nonetheless, I was right, wasn’t I? All those months and years ago, when I told you: IT CAME FROM THE LAB

    At one point I was the only person on PB voicing that opinion, to the derision of all others. Indeed I was about to give up, until @Gardenwalker - bless him - said “you know, you might be on to something”

    Think that was late 2020?
    I've always thought that it came from the lab. However, I didn't spam the site by voicing that opinion 20 times a day.
    Yeah yeah yeah
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,288

    Apparently all rail traffic in Crimea has been stopped, and coincidentally there are reports that the Ukrainians have been able to sever the main rail link into Crimea from Melitopol.

    It's possible thar we're approaching the end game in Ukraine.

  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,651

    Boris resignation dishonours list widely decried as a disgrace
    Go Nads
    Boris handed the Standards Committee report
    Go Boris
    Tory mouth-breathers swamp the media getting booked (e.g. Any Questions)
    Tory civil war binfire burns a little brighter
    Nippie nicked

    What's that - 48 hours?

    None of that would have happened if Starmer (a total pisshead, by the way) hadn't had a beer and curry in Durham a while back.
    Put the blame where it belongs, please.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,519
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I’m sorry for being right about everything. I know it’s annoying


    We discussed this while you were busy posting your holiday photos.
    Nonetheless, I was right, wasn’t I? All those months and years ago, when I told you: IT CAME FROM THE LAB

    At one point I was the only person on PB voicing that opinion, to the derision of all others. Indeed I was about to give up, until @Gardenwalker - bless him - said “you know, you might be on to something”

    Think that was late 2020?
    Um, piss off. I most certainly did not deride anyone for theorising that it came from a lab. Once the lab's work and location were known, it was the only remotely sensible theory.
    How do you account for MERS? And the original SARS?
    I don't account for them. I don't know remotely enough about their origins to posit any sort of theory. This is whataboutery.
    It’s really not. It’s making the point that all known epidemics in the history of man have been natural in origin. That does not preclude covid being the result of genetic manipulation in the WIV but it makes it having a natural source eminently plausible, in the way all the others ones started by crossing species to man.
    Yes, in the absence of proof or near proof Natural is the default. For Lab to become favourite requires evidence compatible with Lab and incompatible with Natural. Just the first doesn't cut it.
    The overwhelming circumstantial evidence makes lab leak the default in this case. As it was from the start. A novel bat coronavirus with strange manipulations at the furin cleavage site making it more dangerous for humans emerges in the ONLY city in the world with a bio lab playing with novel bat coronaviruses, and doing so by manipulating the furin cleavage site to make the viruses more dangerous for humans?

    What are the odds on there being NO connection between these two things? About a thousand to
    one against

    So it’s the natural wet marketeers who have all the proving to do. And despite three years of strenuous effort what proof have they managed to find? None. Zero. Nil. Nada. Nuffink. Every paper that claims to find a link with the market has been savagely debunked soon after

    Meanwhile the evidence for a lab leak grows with more and more revelations of secrecy and cover up - to the extent that the Chinese themselves are now saying Hell yeah, it could be the lab

    At this point piously believing in a natural origin is a basic intelligence test. Which you have failed

    It is weird how this has become political. It is - generally - a few people on the left who are still desperate to believe it came from the market. As we see here. Why? Is it really coz trump said “lab leak” three years ago? Does he bother you that much?

    This is not politics. It’s basic logic. Get over yourselves. It almost certainly came from the lab

    You have talents but logical reasoning isn't one of them. It's more my thing. And I'm not desperate to believe either way. You otoh are enormously invested. To the point I'd worry for you if it went the 'wrong' way.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,785
    OOOOOH

    I’m in WASHINGTON DC!!!!

    I’m nearly 60 years old and I’ve been all over the world and the joy of a fascinating new city is as vivid as ever

    I’m gonna have a look at THE WHITE HOUSE!!!!
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    felix said:

    felix said:

    carnforth said:

    Given complete CON and SNP meltdown, is LAB now expecting 400 minimum at the GE??

    Why would you assume SNP meltdown from this? It's not a given.
    Well their polling has declined from the mid-forties to the high-thirties in the last four months, so it's had some impact so far.
    The most recent poll saw Labour down 3, Conservative up 2 and the SNP up 4.
    It had the SNP on 37%, which is still significantly lower than their polling a few months back.
    Then there's also the recent Scotland YouGov MRP and Best for Britain MRP which predicted significant gains for SLAB.
    Both of the latter were not based on the most recent poll which as you know saw movement away from Labour. The initial Labour boost may already be waning. Those Labour gains are far from in the bag.
    Isn't this a bit like the PB Tories proclaiming Starmer was toast when the GE polls started to narrow before the local elections? It's a bit much to assume all previous SNP voters will switch back at the GE, especially on the basis of one poll.
    You're the one making assumptions based on a couple of earlier polls. I'm simply pointing out that big Labour gains in Scotland are yet to happen. Maybe the Rutherglen by election will take us further. I'm simply pointing out that the initial surge may have topped out. By the way can you reference those PB Tories who claimed Starmer was toast? I can recall nothing of that nature.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,530
    Leon said:

    OOOOOH

    I’m in WASHINGTON DC!!!!

    I’m nearly 60 years old and I’ve been all over the world and the joy of a fascinating new city is as vivid as ever

    I’m gonna have a look at THE WHITE HOUSE!!!!

    Knock on the door and ask to see the aliens?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,288
    Leon said:

    OOOOOH

    I’m in WASHINGTON DC!!!!

    I’m nearly 60 years old and I’ve been all over the world and the joy of a fascinating new city is as vivid as ever

    I’m gonna have a look at THE WHITE HOUSE!!!!

    It's very small.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,785
    The White House is surely, worldwide, the building most seen on TV yet least viewed in real life. Second: the Capitol
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,130
    rcs1000 said:

    Apparently all rail traffic in Crimea has been stopped, and coincidentally there are reports that the Ukrainians have been able to sever the main rail link into Crimea from Melitopol.

    It's possible thar we're approaching the end game in Ukraine.

    If that is so then I'm beginning to worry I was entered into some kind of matrix style positive simulation last Friday.
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,135

    Sean_F said:

    carnforth said:

    Given complete CON and SNP meltdown, is LAB now expecting 400 minimum at the GE??

    Why would you assume SNP meltdown from this? It's not a given.
    Like Sinn Fein, the SNP have a huge core vote who don’t actually care what their politicians do, so long as they’re sticking it to them uns.
    Rather like the Conservative Party, then?
    We support the Conservative Party because, now the grown-ups are in charge, we think the country is on the right path and we think that as facepalmy as they are that Labour will be worse.

    I know that's a tedious/tired/unfashionable view, particularly because they've been in office for 13 years and everyone is fed up with them, but it also happens to be true.

    Starmer is a tedious tactical triangulator, who will say whatever he need to say to get elected and only then show his true colours, but even the rather limited policy platform he's declared so far shows him to be a rather inept and destructive Leftist.

    He is not to be trusted.
    I don't particularly trust any politician. But if I bother to vote at all next time, it'll be to turf the current lot out.

    The Conservative Party only cares about wealthy elderly homeowners and their heirs (the core vote) and the extremely rich (its donors, its mates, the Chancellor, the Prime Minister.) Almost everybody else is getting poorer by the day whilst buckling under the weight of skyrocketing taxes (levied on incomes so that the Government can hose down pensioners with largesse, without having to raid asset wealth to pay for it,) coupled with extortionate mortgage repayments or even higher rents.

    The Conservative Party has absolutely nothing of value left to offer to anyone bar the already minted. Labour only has to turn out to be slightly less bloody useless to be worth backing. Even if they turn out to be less incompetent managers of the rotten system that we currently have and they manage to get a few more houses built, then that would at least be some kind of improvement on the woeful dross that we have at the moment.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,512

    Keir Starmer is incredibly lucky.

    This isn't about Starmer.
    No you are right, this is Nippy's special day and Boris' big weekend.

    Starmer should but out!
    Arrived at our hotel in Liverpool before we sail to the IOM tomorrow at the same time the news broke in our hotel room

    My wife and I collapsed laughing when we remember her reaction to Jo Swinson losing her seat at the last GE

    Not laughing now are we Nicola?

    Looks as if the next parliament will be a Starmer and labour walk over

    Mind you, then the hard work begins

    Let's just hope this image never sees the light of day!


  • Options
    RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,169
    felix said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    carnforth said:

    Given complete CON and SNP meltdown, is LAB now expecting 400 minimum at the GE??

    Why would you assume SNP meltdown from this? It's not a given.
    Well their polling has declined from the mid-forties to the high-thirties in the last four months, so it's had some impact so far.
    The most recent poll saw Labour down 3, Conservative up 2 and the SNP up 4.
    It had the SNP on 37%, which is still significantly lower than their polling a few months back.
    Then there's also the recent Scotland YouGov MRP and Best for Britain MRP which predicted significant gains for SLAB.
    Both of the latter were not based on the most recent poll which as you know saw movement away from Labour. The initial Labour boost may already be waning. Those Labour gains are far from in the bag.
    Isn't this a bit like the PB Tories proclaiming Starmer was toast when the GE polls started to narrow before the local elections? It's a bit much to assume all previous SNP voters will switch back at the GE, especially on the basis of one poll.
    You're the one making assumptions based on a couple of earlier polls. I'm simply pointing out that big Labour gains in Scotland are yet to happen. Maybe the Rutherglen by election will take us further. I'm simply pointing out that the initial surge may have topped out. By the way can you reference those PB Tories who claimed Starmer was toast? I can recall nothing of that nature.
    MarqueeMark for one.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,629
    Leon said:

    OOOOOH

    I’m in WASHINGTON DC!!!!

    I’m nearly 60 years old and I’ve been all over the world and the joy of a fascinating new city is as vivid as ever

    I’m gonna have a look at THE WHITE HOUSE!!!!

    Whooppee-fucking-do! Hey, I'm impressed!
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,785
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I’m sorry for being right about everything. I know it’s annoying


    We discussed this while you were busy posting your holiday photos.
    Nonetheless, I was right, wasn’t I? All those months and years ago, when I told you: IT CAME FROM THE LAB

    At one point I was the only person on PB voicing that opinion, to the derision of all others. Indeed I was about to give up, until @Gardenwalker - bless him - said “you know, you might be on to something”

    Think that was late 2020?
    Um, piss off. I most certainly did not deride anyone for theorising that it came from a lab. Once the lab's work and location were known, it was the only remotely sensible theory.
    How do you account for MERS? And the original SARS?
    I don't account for them. I don't know remotely enough about their origins to posit any sort of theory. This is whataboutery.
    It’s really not. It’s making the point that all known epidemics in the history of man have been natural in origin. That does not preclude covid being the result of genetic manipulation in the WIV but it makes it having a natural source eminently plausible, in the way all the others ones started by crossing species to man.
    Yes, in the absence of proof or near proof Natural is the default. For Lab to become favourite requires evidence compatible with Lab and incompatible with Natural. Just the first doesn't cut it.
    The overwhelming circumstantial evidence makes lab leak the default in this case. As it was from the start. A novel bat coronavirus with strange manipulations at the furin cleavage site making it more dangerous for humans emerges in the ONLY city in the world with a bio lab playing with novel bat coronaviruses, and doing so by manipulating the furin cleavage site to make the viruses more dangerous for humans?

    What are the odds on there being NO connection between these two things? About a thousand to
    one against

    So it’s the natural wet marketeers who have all the proving to do. And despite three years of strenuous effort what proof have they managed to find? None. Zero. Nil. Nada. Nuffink. Every paper that claims to find a link with the market has been savagely debunked soon after

    Meanwhile the evidence for a lab leak grows with more and more revelations of secrecy and cover up - to the extent that the Chinese themselves are now saying Hell yeah, it could be the lab

    At this point piously believing in a natural origin is a basic intelligence test. Which you have failed

    It is weird how this has become political. It is - generally - a few people on the left who are still desperate to believe it came from the market. As we see here. Why? Is it really coz trump said “lab leak” three years ago? Does he bother you that much?

    This is not politics. It’s basic logic. Get over yourselves. It almost certainly came from the lab

    You have talents but logical reasoning isn't one of them. It's more my thing. And I'm not desperate to believe either way. You otoh are enormously invested. To the point I'd worry for you if it went the 'wrong' way.
    Yeah but you’re GAY*

    (*I make this remark solely to please @kjh who is weirdly convinced I hurl this vile allegation when I get into an argument)

    On this point - lab leak - your determined stupidity is far more interesting than your gayness
  • Options
    sladeslade Posts: 1,941

    Apparently all rail traffic in Crimea has been stopped, and coincidentally there are reports that the Ukrainians have been able to sever the main rail link into Crimea from Melitopol.

    Apparently all rail traffic in Crimea has been stopped, and coincidentally there are reports that the Ukrainians have been able to sever the main rail link into Crimea from Melitopol.

    If the earlier report about Blahodatne is true then they will have also cut the main road from Donetsk to Mariupol.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,785
    First impressions

    1. Washington is seriously - and I mean seriously - ugly

    2. It’s also oddly Soviet. Lots of pompous buildings that don’t quite impress and they are all a sludge brown colour. It’s not even Moscow. It’s more Minsk or east Berlin

    3. They do, however, have Pret A Manger
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193

    Boris resignation dishonours list widely decried as a disgrace
    Go Nads
    Boris handed the Standards Committee report
    Go Boris
    Tory mouth-breathers swamp the media getting booked (e.g. Any Questions)
    Tory civil war binfire burns a little brighter
    Nippie nicked

    What's that - 48 hours?

    What you thought was a Tory binfire was just Boris' pants aflame.....
  • Options
    Rutherglen just got a bit trickier for the SNP

    Keir Starmer is incredibly lucky.

    This isn't about Starmer.
    No you are right, this is Nippy's special day and Boris' big weekend.

    Starmer should but out!
    Arrived at our hotel in Liverpool before we sail to the IOM tomorrow at the same time the news broke in our hotel room

    My wife and I collapsed laughing when we remember her reaction to Jo Swinson losing her seat at the last GE

    Not laughing now are we Nicola?

    Looks as if the next parliament will be a Starmer and labour walk over

    Mind you, then the hard work begins

    Let's just hope this image never sees the light of day!


    Hang on - isn't that Swiss Tony?
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dramatic, however we must remember just because Sturgeon has been arrested doesn't mean she will be charged. Not a great weekend for the SNP now either not just the Conservatives

    so Tory, Labour and SNP leaders all investigated by police.

    But only two face further action…
    Sir Ed Davey: Once again the LDs are ignored! We deserve the same level of police scrutiny!
    Police: What's a LD?
    Your former leader was on trial for conspiracy to murder in the late 1970s, albeit Thorpe was acquitted as portrayed in the brilliant Hugh Grant drama a few years ago
    Exactly: go big or go home.

    Trump (Republican): documents. Boring.
    Johnson (Conservative): covid rules. Lame.
    Sturgeon (SNP): accounting. Yawn.

    Thope (Liberal): murder.

    Which one stands out? Which one is the creme de la creme?

    That's right. The liberal.
    On a point of order:

    It was *attempted* murder.

    The assassin shot the dog instead by mistake.

    I realise this made it worse in the eyes of the British public.

    But it also led to one of the great comedy one-liners:

    'a man incapable of carrying out a simple murder plot without cocking the whole thing up.'
    God must be a Liberal.

    Most of the 1970’s Party ought to have been in prison, yet somehow, the Party survived.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,785
    I mean look at this. It’s big and it’s sort of imposing but it’s also bombastic and mediocre

    It’s Ceaucescu’s Bucharest in fake tan


  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193

    felix said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    carnforth said:

    Given complete CON and SNP meltdown, is LAB now expecting 400 minimum at the GE??

    Why would you assume SNP meltdown from this? It's not a given.
    Well their polling has declined from the mid-forties to the high-thirties in the last four months, so it's had some impact so far.
    The most recent poll saw Labour down 3, Conservative up 2 and the SNP up 4.
    It had the SNP on 37%, which is still significantly lower than their polling a few months back.
    Then there's also the recent Scotland YouGov MRP and Best for Britain MRP which predicted significant gains for SLAB.
    Both of the latter were not based on the most recent poll which as you know saw movement away from Labour. The initial Labour boost may already be waning. Those Labour gains are far from in the bag.
    Isn't this a bit like the PB Tories proclaiming Starmer was toast when the GE polls started to narrow before the local elections? It's a bit much to assume all previous SNP voters will switch back at the GE, especially on the basis of one poll.
    You're the one making assumptions based on a couple of earlier polls. I'm simply pointing out that big Labour gains in Scotland are yet to happen. Maybe the Rutherglen by election will take us further. I'm simply pointing out that the initial surge may have topped out. By the way can you reference those PB Tories who claimed Starmer was toast? I can recall nothing of that nature.
    MarqueeMark for one.
    I've said he SHOULD be toast, given how he was prepared to sit in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet for three years as anti-semitism ran rife in the Labour Party.
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,135

    Apparently all rail traffic in Crimea has been stopped, and coincidentally there are reports that the Ukrainians have been able to sever the main rail link into Crimea from Melitopol.

    It wouldn't be a surprise. One of their main axes of attack is meant to be towards a town called Tokmak which is a rail hub along that line, but of course they don't necessarily need to invest the city to cut the route. If they seize the line at any single point along its length they can blow it up and prevent repair. That'd be the main Russian re-supply route into Crimea gone, as well as the main water supply following the blowing up of the Kakhovka Dam.

    I wonder how long it will be before there's footage of more Russians fleeing in panic across the Kerch Bridge? Assuming that Putin lets anyone else out, of course.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,796

    Massive black cloud visible from my place in east London. Must be over west London, not coming this way though. Judging from FlightRadar24, lots of flights into Heathrow taking the scenic route to land there!

    Sky getting dark. Rumbling in the distance. I think that it will be pissing it down in Airedale very soon.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,241

    The sun is shining over Ayrshire this afternoon. On behalf of @malcolmg 😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄.
    Seriously though @TSE, it always blows up when you’re on duty!

    Some decent thunder and lightning last night though. Portentous?
    I said many moons ago she would be in irons, they are done for and well deserved.
  • Options
    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,404
    Leon said:

    OOOOOH

    I’m in WASHINGTON DC!!!!

    I’m nearly 60 years old and I’ve been all over the world and the joy of a fascinating new city is as vivid as ever

    I’m gonna have a look at THE WHITE HOUSE!!!!

    lucky b***ard, I'd love to go to DC. Can't wait fo the school hols.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,872

    Crimea just got a bit more cut off.... Before the bridge goes, obs.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR/status/1667912403588087810

    Russian logistics runs on rail lines. Due to a lack of paletteisation, machinery for handling the same and militarily useful trucks, they can’t do much more than a handful of miles from their rail heads. Hence they still have railway engineers in their army.

    In age of precision strike (Storm Shadow) rail heads are easy targets
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,796

    Crimea just got a bit more cut off.... Before the bridge goes, obs.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR/status/1667912403588087810

    Rail replacement buses for the next couple of days then.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    felix said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    carnforth said:

    Given complete CON and SNP meltdown, is LAB now expecting 400 minimum at the GE??

    Why would you assume SNP meltdown from this? It's not a given.
    Well their polling has declined from the mid-forties to the high-thirties in the last four months, so it's had some impact so far.
    The most recent poll saw Labour down 3, Conservative up 2 and the SNP up 4.
    It had the SNP on 37%, which is still significantly lower than their polling a few months back.
    Then there's also the recent Scotland YouGov MRP and Best for Britain MRP which predicted significant gains for SLAB.
    Both of the latter were not based on the most recent poll which as you know saw movement away from Labour. The initial Labour boost may already be waning. Those Labour gains are far from in the bag.
    Isn't this a bit like the PB Tories proclaiming Starmer was toast when the GE polls started to narrow before the local elections? It's a bit much to assume all previous SNP voters will switch back at the GE, especially on the basis of one poll.
    You're the one making assumptions based on a couple of earlier polls. I'm simply pointing out that big Labour gains in Scotland are yet to happen. Maybe the Rutherglen by election will take us further. I'm simply pointing out that the initial surge may have topped out. By the way can you reference those PB Tories who claimed Starmer was toast? I can recall nothing of that nature.
    MarqueeMark for one.
    So one PB Tory. I see.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,519
    pigeon said:

    Sean_F said:

    carnforth said:

    Given complete CON and SNP meltdown, is LAB now expecting 400 minimum at the GE??

    Why would you assume SNP meltdown from this? It's not a given.
    Like Sinn Fein, the SNP have a huge core vote who don’t actually care what their politicians do, so long as they’re sticking it to them uns.
    Rather like the Conservative Party, then?
    We support the Conservative Party because, now the grown-ups are in charge, we think the country is on the right path and we think that as facepalmy as they are that Labour will be worse.

    I know that's a tedious/tired/unfashionable view, particularly because they've been in office for 13 years and everyone is fed up with them, but it also happens to be true.

    Starmer is a tedious tactical triangulator, who will say whatever he need to say to get elected and only then show his true colours, but even the rather limited policy platform he's declared so far shows him to be a rather inept and destructive Leftist.

    He is not to be trusted.
    I don't particularly trust any politician. But if I bother to vote at all next time, it'll be to turf the current lot out.

    The Conservative Party only cares about wealthy elderly homeowners and their heirs (the core vote) and the extremely rich (its donors, its mates, the Chancellor, the Prime Minister.) Almost everybody else is getting poorer by the day whilst buckling under the weight of skyrocketing taxes (levied on incomes so that the Government can hose down pensioners with largesse, without having to raid asset wealth to pay for it,) coupled with extortionate mortgage repayments or even higher rents.

    The Conservative Party has absolutely nothing of value left to offer to anyone bar the already minted. Labour only has to turn out to be slightly less bloody useless to be worth backing. Even if they turn out to be less incompetent managers of the rotten system that we currently have and they manage to get a few more houses built, then that would at least be some kind of improvement on the woeful dross that we have at the moment.
    Pigeon shits on Tories and it goes all over. Few protest.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,288
    Leon said:

    First impressions

    1. Washington is seriously - and I mean seriously - ugly

    2. It’s also oddly Soviet. Lots of pompous buildings that don’t quite impress and they are all a sludge brown colour. It’s not even Moscow. It’s more Minsk or east Berlin

    3. They do, however, have Pret A Manger

    The Government area is seriously boring, with low office buildings of no artistic value.

    Georgetown is attractive (and old), and when the Universities are in season, buzzing with attractive early 20-somethings. Sadly, you've arrived two weeks too late.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,130

    Nicola Sturgeon is the first former FM or PM to be arrested in the history of the UK. She is the first former or current leader of a major party to be arrested since Jeremy Thorpe in the 1970s. She is the first SNP MSP to be arrested since Wednesday 19th April.

    https://www.notesonnationalism.com/p/nicola-sturgeon-arrested

    Well that's fake news.

    She's not even the first former SNP First Minister/former SNP leader to have been arrested.
    Indeed - truly expunged from history!
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,876

    Crimea just got a bit more cut off.... Before the bridge goes, obs.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR/status/1667912403588087810

    Ukrainian partisans have reportedly cut the railway line in Russian-occupied Yakymivka, between the Russian-occupied cities of Dzhankoy and Melitopol/Tokmak. Explosions can be seen on pictures and it is claimed it is from the local rail bridge.

    The main train artery is leading through this city (green line in my map).

    Source: https://t.me/a_shtirlitz/26084

    #Ukraine #Zaporizhzhia #Yakimivka





    https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1667893691271266304?s=20
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,288
    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dramatic, however we must remember just because Sturgeon has been arrested doesn't mean she will be charged. Not a great weekend for the SNP now either not just the Conservatives

    so Tory, Labour and SNP leaders all investigated by police.

    But only two face further action…
    Sir Ed Davey: Once again the LDs are ignored! We deserve the same level of police scrutiny!
    Police: What's a LD?
    Your former leader was on trial for conspiracy to murder in the late 1970s, albeit Thorpe was acquitted as portrayed in the brilliant Hugh Grant drama a few years ago
    Exactly: go big or go home.

    Trump (Republican): documents. Boring.
    Johnson (Conservative): covid rules. Lame.
    Sturgeon (SNP): accounting. Yawn.

    Thope (Liberal): murder.

    Which one stands out? Which one is the creme de la creme?

    That's right. The liberal.
    On a point of order:

    It was *attempted* murder.

    The assassin shot the dog instead by mistake.

    I realise this made it worse in the eyes of the British public.

    But it also led to one of the great comedy one-liners:

    'a man incapable of carrying out a simple murder plot without cocking the whole thing up.'
    God must be a Liberal.

    Most of the 1970’s Party ought to have been in prison, yet somehow, the Party survived.
    Thorpe: check.
    Freud: check.
    Cyril Smith: check.

  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,629

    Crimea just got a bit more cut off.... Before the bridge goes, obs.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR/status/1667912403588087810

    Rail replacement buses for the next couple of days then.
    Line from Reading to Oxford reopened on Friday after two months of bridge works.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,519
    edited June 2023
    Leon said:

    First impressions

    1. Washington is seriously - and I mean seriously - ugly

    2. It’s also oddly Soviet. Lots of pompous buildings that don’t quite impress and they are all a sludge brown colour. It’s not even Moscow. It’s more Minsk or east Berlin

    3. They do, however, have Pret A Manger

    I'll risk a 'man of the world' observation of my own here. A rare event but why not. Here it is - places that are administrative capitals only (eg Canberra, Bonn (as was), Bern, Brasilia, various others not starting with B, tend to be disappointing and dull as cities.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,796
    Leon said:

    I mean look at this. It’s big and it’s sort of imposing but it’s also bombastic and mediocre

    It’s Ceaucescu’s Bucharest in fake tan


    The CIA snatch squad in that black SUV are on to you. All that stuff about aliens? They've got something a bit juicier than an Off Topic button to shut you up!
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,288
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    First impressions

    1. Washington is seriously - and I mean seriously - ugly

    2. It’s also oddly Soviet. Lots of pompous buildings that don’t quite impress and they are all a sludge brown colour. It’s not even Moscow. It’s more Minsk or east Berlin

    3. They do, however, have Pret A Manger

    The Government area is seriously boring, with low office buildings of no artistic value.

    Georgetown is attractive (and old), and when the Universities are in season, buzzing with attractive early 20-somethings. Sadly, you've arrived two weeks too late.
    The Capitol Hill area is also worth a visit: as in the neighbourhood. Lots of bars and restaurants.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,288
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    First impressions

    1. Washington is seriously - and I mean seriously - ugly

    2. It’s also oddly Soviet. Lots of pompous buildings that don’t quite impress and they are all a sludge brown colour. It’s not even Moscow. It’s more Minsk or east Berlin

    3. They do, however, have Pret A Manger

    I'll risk a 'man of the world' observation of my own here. A rare event but why not. Here it is - places that are administrative capitals only (eg Canberra, Bonn (as was), Bern, Brasilia, various others not starting with B, tend to be disappointing and dull as cities.
    The government / NGO / international organisations part of DC is very boring.

    The university parts are more interesting.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,876
    Another railway incident happened, this time in Russian-occupied Crimea. According to multiple Russian sources the tracks were blown up near Kirovskoye, damaging the locomotive of a freight train.

    The tracks connect the Russian-occupied cities of Kerch and Dzhankoy.

    Source: https://t.me/ENews112/14210

    #Ukraine #Crimea


    https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1667920047199735809?s=20
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    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,819

    Leon said:

    OOOOOH

    I’m in WASHINGTON DC!!!!

    I’m nearly 60 years old and I’ve been all over the world and the joy of a fascinating new city is as vivid as ever

    I’m gonna have a look at THE WHITE HOUSE!!!!

    Knock on the door and ask to see the aliens?
    Need to go to the FBI building for that
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,785
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    First impressions

    1. Washington is seriously - and I mean seriously - ugly

    2. It’s also oddly Soviet. Lots of pompous buildings that don’t quite impress and they are all a sludge brown colour. It’s not even Moscow. It’s more Minsk or east Berlin

    3. They do, however, have Pret A Manger

    The Government area is seriously boring, with low office buildings of no artistic value.

    Georgetown is attractive (and old), and when the Universities are in season, buzzing with attractive early 20-somethings. Sadly, you've arrived two weeks too late.
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    First impressions

    1. Washington is seriously - and I mean seriously - ugly

    2. It’s also oddly Soviet. Lots of pompous buildings that don’t quite impress and they are all a sludge brown colour. It’s not even Moscow. It’s more Minsk or east Berlin

    3. They do, however, have Pret A Manger

    The Government area is seriously boring, with low office buildings of no artistic value.

    Georgetown is attractive (and old), and when the Universities are in season, buzzing with attractive early 20-somethings. Sadly, you've arrived two weeks too late.
    It is astonishingly ugly. It’s possibly the ugliest capital city I’ve ever visited. Even worse than Lima

    It’s like Milton Keynes got married to Tashkent

    It’s like someone looked at Paris and thought “oh, all we need is massive boulevards and lots of biggish buildings the same height. And chuck in some columns”

    The White House is probably the prettiest building. The only lovely building. Perhaps that is the point. So it stands out. Like one of those cities where nothing can be built higher than such-and-such palace
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,293
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    First impressions

    1. Washington is seriously - and I mean seriously - ugly

    2. It’s also oddly Soviet. Lots of pompous buildings that don’t quite impress and they are all a sludge brown colour. It’s not even Moscow. It’s more Minsk or east Berlin

    3. They do, however, have Pret A Manger

    I'll risk a 'man of the world' observation of my own here. A rare event but why not. Here it is - places that are administrative capitals only (eg Canberra, Bonn (as was), Bern, Brasilia, various others not starting with B, tend to be disappointing and dull as cities.
    Bonn is great, but it was a city long before it was the temporary administrative capital
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,730
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dramatic, however we must remember just because Sturgeon has been arrested doesn't mean she will be charged. Not a great weekend for the SNP now either not just the Conservatives

    so Tory, Labour and SNP leaders all investigated by police.

    But only two face further action…
    Sir Ed Davey: Once again the LDs are ignored! We deserve the same level of police scrutiny!
    Police: What's a LD?
    Your former leader was on trial for conspiracy to murder in the late 1970s, albeit Thorpe was acquitted as portrayed in the brilliant Hugh Grant drama a few years ago
    Exactly: go big or go home.

    Trump (Republican): documents. Boring.
    Johnson (Conservative): covid rules. Lame.
    Sturgeon (SNP): accounting. Yawn.

    Thope (Liberal): murder.

    Which one stands out? Which one is the creme de la creme?

    That's right. The liberal.
    On a point of order:

    It was *attempted* murder.

    The assassin shot the dog instead by mistake.

    I realise this made it worse in the eyes of the British public.

    But it also led to one of the great comedy one-liners:

    'a man incapable of carrying out a simple murder plot without cocking the whole thing up.'
    It was neither murder nor attempted murder. It was conspiracy and incitement to murder.

    Only one of the four (not JT) accused gave evidence. 'Gorgeous' George Carman QC was for JT at the trial (not at the committal IIRC), and it made him fantastically famous thereafter.

    Unusually there was an old style committal, and also unusually, one of the defendants asked for reporting restrictions to be lifted, so the whole thing was reported at length twice over.

    Such defence as there was relied on it being a conspiracy to frighten, not to murder.

  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,750
    Leon said:

    I mean look at this. It’s big and it’s sort of imposing but it’s also bombastic and mediocre

    It’s Ceaucescu’s Bucharest in fake tan


    When in DC, thing to see is NOT the Dept of Commerce or whatever, but rather

    > US Capitol = personally think it's way more interesting than the White House, plus lines are (or at least were) lot shorter.

    > Smithsonian Institution museums = was ten years old when I saw "Spirit of St Louis" hanging from the ceiling - am still impressed!

    > National Archives = check out the moth-eaten copy of Magna Carta, ditto Declaration of Independence and original US Constitution (best catch the later before the next Trump-MAGA administration sends it to the Trump Presidential Library for spare toilet paper).

    > Washington Monument, Lincoln Memorial and Vietnam War Memorial = each amazing in its own way.

    > Embassy Row = even a world-weary globe-trotter like Leon might be impressed by the proliferation of flags and fine houses, in one of DC's toniest 'hoods.

    > Fort Myers = parts that they MIGHT allow a dodgy Brit journalist (is there any other kind?) inside the perimeter.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,876
    SNP faces call to suspend Nicola Sturgeon from party following arrest

    https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1667907820715491334?s=20
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,135

    Crimea just got a bit more cut off.... Before the bridge goes, obs.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR/status/1667912403588087810

    Rail replacement buses for the next couple of days then.
    I doubt the Russians have anything as sophisticated as buses. Replacement horses, perhaps...
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,429
    edited June 2023
    A tribute to Nicola, the sanity of the poster may be questioned.

    https://twitter.com/indy4scotss/status/1667903725942308866?s=61&t=s0ae0IFncdLS1Dc7J0P_TQ
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,288

    Leon said:

    I mean look at this. It’s big and it’s sort of imposing but it’s also bombastic and mediocre

    It’s Ceaucescu’s Bucharest in fake tan


    When in DC, thing to see is NOT the Dept of Commerce or whatever, but rather

    > US Capitol = personally think it's way more interesting than the White House, plus lines are (or at least were) lot shorter.

    > Smithsonian Institution museums = was ten years old when I saw "Spirit of St Louis" hanging from the ceiling - am still impressed!

    > National Archives = check out the moth-eaten copy of Magna Carta, ditto Declaration of Independence and original US Constitution (best catch the later before the next Trump-MAGA administration sends it to the Trump Presidential Library for spare toilet paper).

    > Washington Monument, Lincoln Memorial and Vietnam War Memorial = each amazing in its own way.

    > Embassy Row = even a world-weary globe-trotter like Leon might be impressed by the proliferation of flags and fine houses, in one of DC's toniest 'hoods.

    > Fort Myers = parts that they MIGHT allow a dodgy Brit journalist (is there any other kind?) inside the perimeter.
    Agree re my ancestor's museums.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,785
    Actually Buenos Aires is pretty bad too. And Santiago. Maybe all the capitals in the Americas are ugly and that’s the law. Yet I expected more of DC
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,130
    People register new parties all the time, but obviously this one's name will have some very excited.

    The Election Commission have just published the fact that they received an application to register a political party called the "National Conservatism Party".

    https://twitter.com/edwinhayward/status/1667550824958926849/photo/1
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    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,994
    BBC editors doing a sterling job.


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    TazTaz Posts: 11,429
    @malcolmg Enjoy, you deserve this moment.
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    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,808
    What a great few days we have had. Trump arrested, Johnson forced to resign from parliament, Mad Nad resigning from parliament and now Sturrrrgeon arrested. Please God, I know I am being greedy, but can we please have Farage found in a compromising position and Putin overthrown in the next few days?

    Then Lord, we really will know there is a God. (we will also overlook the Man City thing)
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,750
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I mean look at this. It’s big and it’s sort of imposing but it’s also bombastic and mediocre

    It’s Ceaucescu’s Bucharest in fake tan


    When in DC, thing to see is NOT the Dept of Commerce or whatever, but rather

    > US Capitol = personally think it's way more interesting than the White House, plus lines are (or at least were) lot shorter.

    > Smithsonian Institution museums = was ten years old when I saw "Spirit of St Louis" hanging from the ceiling - am still impressed!

    > National Archives = check out the moth-eaten copy of Magna Carta, ditto Declaration of Independence and original US Constitution (best catch the later before the next Trump-MAGA administration sends it to the Trump Presidential Library for spare toilet paper).

    > Washington Monument, Lincoln Memorial and Vietnam War Memorial = each amazing in its own way.

    > Embassy Row = even a world-weary globe-trotter like Leon might be impressed by the proliferation of flags and fine houses, in one of DC's toniest 'hoods.

    > Fort Myers = parts that they MIGHT allow a dodgy Brit journalist (is there any other kind?) inside the perimeter.
    Agree re my ancestor's museums.
    Take your pick . . . and take at least a day to check out one or two, maybe three if you're tough enough!
This discussion has been closed.