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Could Rishi be replaced before the election? – politicalbetting.com

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2023
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Downtown Cincinnati. 6.26pm. Rush hour

    This is a “busy” city of 2m people





    As I said yesterday: is the problem American sobriety?
    British city centres are doing ok because the British need to drink, and therefore need somewhere they can get to without driving. So even if they're not actually working in town, they're coming there afterwards for a drink. But if your evening consists of soft drinks and a drive home, city centres hold no particular advantage.
    It’s a whole combination of things. The innate American love of the suburb and the car. The loathing of public transport. The big houses that are nice to WFH in. The general fucked up nature of American city centers - drugs, homeless, urbanscapes ruined by car lots and shit buildings

    But this is an enormous problem and I’m encountering it everywhere. Denver last year. Cincinnati now. Multiple other places

    It’s desolate. Ffs this is a city twice the size of Manchester and this is the buzzing heart. On a beautiful balmy evening of about 25C





    But this is not new.

    I remember visiting LA in 1999, being downtown, and thinking "wait, wtf?"

    Leon said:

    Downtown Cincinnati. 6.26pm. Rush hour

    This is a “busy” city of 2m people





    6.26 PM is the tail-end of rush hour in most US cities.

    AND empty downtowns in US cities after working hours is NOT a new development. Many decades old.

    Ain't saying it's a plus. But not sign of impending doom.

    ADDENDUM - So WHY are you hanging around in downtown this evening, when the REAL Cincinnati is clearly elsewhere.

    Suggest you head up the hill, toward the U of Cincinnati, AND check out Taft's bathtub!
    No this is bollocks. As is the comment by @rcs1000

    All the offices are empty. For Lease

    Open your eyes. Urban America is dying





    I am sure if you went to Manhattan or downtown Chicago or Seattle or Boston or Miami you would find it a bit busier, Cincanniti is really a lot of office blocks with a few restaurants for lunch surrounded by suburbia
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited June 2023

    kle4 said:

    I don't think there's much 'alleged' about this, he's beem pretty clear about it. What's depressing is most of the GOP choose personal loyalty, and even Pence is a bit hesitant about condemning that.

    At his launch rally in Iowa, Mr Pence alleged that Mr Trump had “demanded” he choose between personal loyalty and the Constitution while attempting to overturn the results of the 2020 election.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/trump-demanded-i-choose-between-him-and-constitution-says-mike-pence-as-he-launches-presidential-bid/ar-AA1cg3Ak?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=e015bbbb62f54d3cab922cd636e1e6fb&ei=9

    Here is how Seattle Times is reporting Pence's statement:

    "Pence opens presidential bid with denunciation of Trump over Jan. 6 insurrection and abortion"

    Get the feeling that many UKer PBers - along with many in USA - will be unimpressed by anything other than unequivocal anti-Trump candidate(s) for 2024 Republican nomination.

    HOWEVER, while 2022 midterms gave plenty of evidence that swing voters AND many Republicans are of that mindset, they also showed that running AGAINST Trump was NOT a great strategy for winning GOP nomination for whatever.

    THUS the reluctance (or at least major share of it) to do a Lynn Cheney for 2024.

    Note that goodly chunk of Republicans (including leaners (who either oppose Trump outright, or are seriously allergic to him, are skeptical (for some reason) that it's possible for 1001% anti-45er to win the Republican nomination.

    Just sayin'.

    I think we're all well aware of why Pence and others have been tip toeing around their criticisms, and even the direct attacks tend to get rolled back, thanks. It's depressing to see because we understand why they know they have to do it, not that we don't understand it - it's not rocket science.

    It's not 'disappointment' that they are not unequivocally anti-Trump, it's disappointment that being anti-Trump is a pretty good way of losing and the strategies of others shows that.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,793
    carnforth said:

    What they get up to in central Cincinnati:

    https://urbanaxes.com/locations/cincinnati

    (I saw people doing this in a storefront in St Louis, beer in hand).

    You can do that in Manchester.
    Just saying.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Downtown Cincinnati. 6.26pm. Rush hour

    This is a “busy” city of 2m people





    6.26 PM is the tail-end of rush hour in most US cities.

    AND empty downtowns in US cities after working hours is NOT a new development. Many decades old.

    Ain't saying it's a plus. But not sign of impending doom.

    ADDENDUM - So WHY are you hanging around in downtown this evening, when the REAL Cincinnati is clearly elsewhere.

    Suggest you head up the hill, toward the U of Cincinnati, AND check out Taft's bathtub!
    Or:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over-the-Rhine

    Dodgy as heck when I used to visit but since gentrified
    That’s where I’m sleeping tonight. Over the Rhine

    It has pretty period buildings - and more people - but unfortunately it is still dodgy as fuck
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    Cookie said:

    carnforth said:

    What they get up to in central Cincinnati:

    https://urbanaxes.com/locations/cincinnati

    (I saw people doing this in a storefront in St Louis, beer in hand).

    You can do that in Manchester.
    Just saying.
    The first time I threw a javelin, at about age 13, it twisted and the back of it smacked me in the side of the head. So I'll steer clear of the axes...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    No, I refuse to believe this could be true. Fifa, acting unethically?

    Fifa made false statements about the reduced environmental impact of the 2022 World Cup in Qatar, a Swiss regulator has said.

    Football's world governing body claimed the tournament would be the first "fully carbon-neutral World Cup".

    Advertising regulator the Swiss Fairness Commission (SLK) has upheld complaints from five European nations.

    "Fifa was not able to provide proof that the claims were accurate during the proceedings," the SLK said.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65834022
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Downtown Cincinnati. 6.26pm. Rush hour

    This is a “busy” city of 2m people





    6.26 PM is the tail-end of rush hour in most US cities.

    AND empty downtowns in US cities after working hours is NOT a new development. Many decades old.

    Ain't saying it's a plus. But not sign of impending doom.

    ADDENDUM - So WHY are you hanging around in downtown this evening, when the REAL Cincinnati is clearly elsewhere.

    Suggest you head up the hill, toward the U of Cincinnati, AND check out Taft's bathtub!
    Or:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over-the-Rhine

    Dodgy as heck when I used to visit but since gentrified
    That’s where I’m sleeping tonight. Over the Rhine

    It has pretty period buildings - and more people - but unfortunately it is still dodgy as fuck
    Make a Buckeye your buddy. (They're not ALL worthless nuts, like we used to say back in WVa).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Downtown Cincinnati. 6.26pm. Rush hour

    This is a “busy” city of 2m people





    As I said yesterday: is the problem American sobriety?
    British city centres are doing ok because the British need to drink, and therefore need somewhere they can get to without driving. So even if they're not actually working in town, they're coming there afterwards for a drink. But if your evening consists of soft drinks and a drive home, city centres hold no particular advantage.
    It’s a whole combination of things. The innate American love of the suburb and the car. The loathing of public transport. The big houses that are nice to WFH in. The general fucked up nature of American city centers - drugs, homeless, urbanscapes ruined by car lots and shit buildings

    But this is an enormous problem and I’m encountering it everywhere. Denver last year. Cincinnati now. Multiple other places

    It’s desolate. Ffs this is a city twice the size of Manchester and this is the buzzing heart. On a beautiful balmy evening of about 25C





    But this is not new.

    I remember visiting LA in 1999, being downtown, and thinking "wait, wtf?"

    Leon said:

    Downtown Cincinnati. 6.26pm. Rush hour

    This is a “busy” city of 2m people





    6.26 PM is the tail-end of rush hour in most US cities.

    AND empty downtowns in US cities after working hours is NOT a new development. Many decades old.

    Ain't saying it's a plus. But not sign of impending doom.

    ADDENDUM - So WHY are you hanging around in downtown this evening, when the REAL Cincinnati is clearly elsewhere.

    Suggest you head up the hill, toward the U of Cincinnati, AND check out Taft's bathtub!
    No this is bollocks. As is the comment by @rcs1000

    All the offices are empty. For Lease

    Open your eyes. Urban America is dying





    Impact of COVID is undeniable, esp re: office workers (in burbs as well as downtowns) and related services.

    But empty downtown storefronts and building in America cities and towns large, small and inbetween is NOT novel.
    Yes it is. I’ve been travelling worldwide for 35 years and I’ve been to America maybe 30 times. I have never seen anything like this. And remember I have been all over America in the last two years. West coast. Deep South. Florida. Utah. Colorado. Arizona. Kentucky. Now Ohio. Probably more than you - let’s face it

    Oh look, I can see someone a mile away. Maybe that’s the entertainment district




  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    San Francisco might be the canary in the coal mine:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/06/business/san-francisco-hotels-loan/index.html

    Downtown San Francisco has been dealt another blow after an investor in one of its largest hotels said it would stop paying its loans.

    Park Hotels and Resorts, the investment firm that owns Hilton San Francisco Union Square and Parc 55 hotels, said Monday that is has ceased payments on a $725 million loan as looks to reduce its presence in the city. The hotels have nearly 3,000 rooms, combined.

    In a statement, the firm’s CEO, Thomas Baltimore, Jr., said that San Francisco’s “path to recovery remains clouded and elongated by major challenges” including office vacancies caused by companies letting employees work-from-home, a “weaker than expected citywide convention calendar” through 2027 and “concerns over street conditions.”

    “Unfortunately, the continued burden on our operating results and balance sheet is too significant to warrant continuing to subsidize and own these assets,” he concluded. The hotels will be given back to the lender.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Downtown Cincinnati. 6.26pm. Rush hour

    This is a “busy” city of 2m people





    As I said yesterday: is the problem American sobriety?
    British city centres are doing ok because the British need to drink, and therefore need somewhere they can get to without driving. So even if they're not actually working in town, they're coming there afterwards for a drink. But if your evening consists of soft drinks and a drive home, city centres hold no particular advantage.
    It’s a whole combination of things. The innate American love of the suburb and the car. The loathing of public transport. The big houses that are nice to WFH in. The general fucked up nature of American city centers - drugs, homeless, urbanscapes ruined by car lots and shit buildings

    But this is an enormous problem and I’m encountering it everywhere. Denver last year. Cincinnati now. Multiple other places

    It’s desolate. Ffs this is a city twice the size of Manchester and this is the buzzing heart. On a beautiful balmy evening of about 25C





    But this is not new.

    I remember visiting LA in 1999, being downtown, and thinking "wait, wtf?"

    Leon said:

    Downtown Cincinnati. 6.26pm. Rush hour

    This is a “busy” city of 2m people





    6.26 PM is the tail-end of rush hour in most US cities.

    AND empty downtowns in US cities after working hours is NOT a new development. Many decades old.

    Ain't saying it's a plus. But not sign of impending doom.

    ADDENDUM - So WHY are you hanging around in downtown this evening, when the REAL Cincinnati is clearly elsewhere.

    Suggest you head up the hill, toward the U of Cincinnati, AND check out Taft's bathtub!
    No this is bollocks. As is the comment by @rcs1000

    All the offices are empty. For Lease

    Open your eyes. Urban America is dying





    Impact of COVID is undeniable, esp re: office workers (in burbs as well as downtowns) and related services.

    But empty downtown storefronts and building in America cities and towns large, small and inbetween is NOT novel.
    Yes it is. I’ve been travelling worldwide for 35 years and I’ve been to America maybe 30 times. I have never seen anything like this. And remember I have been all over America in the last two years. West coast. Deep South. Florida. Utah. Colorado. Arizona. Kentucky. Now Ohio. Probably more than you - let’s face it

    Oh look, I can see someone a mile away. Maybe that’s the entertainment district




    Just hope the local coppers do not respond aggressively to reports of a suspicious foreign man wandering about taking random photos of the downtown core.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Downtown Cincinnati. 6.26pm. Rush hour

    This is a “busy” city of 2m people





    As I said yesterday: is the problem American sobriety?
    British city centres are doing ok because the British need to drink, and therefore need somewhere they can get to without driving. So even if they're not actually working in town, they're coming there afterwards for a drink. But if your evening consists of soft drinks and a drive home, city centres hold no particular advantage.
    It’s a whole combination of things. The innate American love of the suburb and the car. The loathing of public transport. The big houses that are nice to WFH in. The general fucked up nature of American city centers - drugs, homeless, urbanscapes ruined by car lots and shit buildings

    But this is an enormous problem and I’m encountering it everywhere. Denver last year. Cincinnati now. Multiple other places

    It’s desolate. Ffs this is a city twice the size of Manchester and this is the buzzing heart. On a beautiful balmy evening of about 25C





    Cincinnati city centre, at least, doesn't looked fucked up. Looks quite nice, in a 'but where are the pubs' way. Just horribly deserted.

    A pedant notes, however, that the Cincinnati metropolitan area is has a population of 1.7m. So smaller than Manchester, whose Metropolitan population is approaching 3m. Closer to Glasgow, I think. Still, your point stands.
    The problem is pretty much as you identified it: where are the restaraunts? the bars? the theatres? Even the shops?

    The city centre existed for workers to come in, and to work in office buildings. In this way, it is curiously different from the UK, where the offices moved to the suburbs, and the cities remained retail and entertainment spaces.

    When Covid came, and the office workers no longer had any reason to go into the centrem, then it ended up deserted.

    It's a little sad. But it certainly doesn't deserve @Leon's "fucked" ephitet. Heck, if you went around Slough Business Center at 630pm, it would probably be similarly eerily quiet.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Downtown Cincinnati. 6.26pm. Rush hour

    This is a “busy” city of 2m people





    As I said yesterday: is the problem American sobriety?
    British city centres are doing ok because the British need to drink, and therefore need somewhere they can get to without driving. So even if they're not actually working in town, they're coming there afterwards for a drink. But if your evening consists of soft drinks and a drive home, city centres hold no particular advantage.
    It’s a whole combination of things. The innate American love of the suburb and the car. The loathing of public transport. The big houses that are nice to WFH in. The general fucked up nature of American city centers - drugs, homeless, urbanscapes ruined by car lots and shit buildings

    But this is an enormous problem and I’m encountering it everywhere. Denver last year. Cincinnati now. Multiple other places

    It’s desolate. Ffs this is a city twice the size of Manchester and this is the buzzing heart. On a beautiful balmy evening of about 25C





    But this is not new.

    I remember visiting LA in 1999, being downtown, and thinking "wait, wtf?"

    Leon said:

    Downtown Cincinnati. 6.26pm. Rush hour

    This is a “busy” city of 2m people





    6.26 PM is the tail-end of rush hour in most US cities.

    AND empty downtowns in US cities after working hours is NOT a new development. Many decades old.

    Ain't saying it's a plus. But not sign of impending doom.

    ADDENDUM - So WHY are you hanging around in downtown this evening, when the REAL Cincinnati is clearly elsewhere.

    Suggest you head up the hill, toward the U of Cincinnati, AND check out Taft's bathtub!
    No this is bollocks. As is the comment by @rcs1000

    All the offices are empty. For Lease

    Open your eyes. Urban America is dying





    I am sure if you went to Manhattan or downtown Chicago or Seattle or Boston or Miami you would find it a bit busier, Cincanniti is really a lot of office blocks with a few restaurants for lunch surrounded by suburbia
    I found a nice historic quarter with all the churches



  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    San Francisco might be the canary in the coal mine:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/06/business/san-francisco-hotels-loan/index.html

    Downtown San Francisco has been dealt another blow after an investor in one of its largest hotels said it would stop paying its loans.

    Park Hotels and Resorts, the investment firm that owns Hilton San Francisco Union Square and Parc 55 hotels, said Monday that is has ceased payments on a $725 million loan as looks to reduce its presence in the city. The hotels have nearly 3,000 rooms, combined.

    In a statement, the firm’s CEO, Thomas Baltimore, Jr., said that San Francisco’s “path to recovery remains clouded and elongated by major challenges” including office vacancies caused by companies letting employees work-from-home, a “weaker than expected citywide convention calendar” through 2027 and “concerns over street conditions.”

    “Unfortunately, the continued burden on our operating results and balance sheet is too significant to warrant continuing to subsidize and own these assets,” he concluded. The hotels will be given back to the lender.

    Trump claims to be super rich, he can take it on.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Downtown Cincinnati. 6.26pm. Rush hour

    This is a “busy” city of 2m people





    As I said yesterday: is the problem American sobriety?
    British city centres are doing ok because the British need to drink, and therefore need somewhere they can get to without driving. So even if they're not actually working in town, they're coming there afterwards for a drink. But if your evening consists of soft drinks and a drive home, city centres hold no particular advantage.
    It’s a whole combination of things. The innate American love of the suburb and the car. The loathing of public transport. The big houses that are nice to WFH in. The general fucked up nature of American city centers - drugs, homeless, urbanscapes ruined by car lots and shit buildings

    But this is an enormous problem and I’m encountering it everywhere. Denver last year. Cincinnati now. Multiple other places

    It’s desolate. Ffs this is a city twice the size of Manchester and this is the buzzing heart. On a beautiful balmy evening of about 25C





    Cincinnati city centre, at least, doesn't looked fucked up. Looks quite nice, in a 'but where are the pubs' way. Just horribly deserted.

    A pedant notes, however, that the Cincinnati metropolitan area is has a population of 1.7m. So smaller than Manchester, whose Metropolitan population is approaching 3m. Closer to Glasgow, I think. Still, your point stands.
    The problem is pretty much as you identified it: where are the restaraunts? the bars? the theatres? Even the shops?

    The city centre existed for workers to come in, and to work in office buildings. In this way, it is curiously different from the UK, where the offices moved to the suburbs, and the cities remained retail and entertainment spaces.

    When Covid came, and the office workers no longer had any reason to go into the centrem, then it ended up deserted.

    It's a little sad. But it certainly doesn't deserve @Leon's "fucked" ephitet. Heck, if you went around Slough Business Center at 630pm, it would probably be similarly eerily quiet.
    This is not slough business centre ffs. This is a city with 2m people. Also in slough busines centre you would not encounter the issue that the ONLY people around are homeless zombies on tranq
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    San Francisco might be the canary in the coal mine:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/06/business/san-francisco-hotels-loan/index.html

    Downtown San Francisco has been dealt another blow after an investor in one of its largest hotels said it would stop paying its loans.

    Park Hotels and Resorts, the investment firm that owns Hilton San Francisco Union Square and Parc 55 hotels, said Monday that is has ceased payments on a $725 million loan as looks to reduce its presence in the city. The hotels have nearly 3,000 rooms, combined.

    In a statement, the firm’s CEO, Thomas Baltimore, Jr., said that San Francisco’s “path to recovery remains clouded and elongated by major challenges” including office vacancies caused by companies letting employees work-from-home, a “weaker than expected citywide convention calendar” through 2027 and “concerns over street conditions.”

    “Unfortunately, the continued burden on our operating results and balance sheet is too significant to warrant continuing to subsidize and own these assets,” he concluded. The hotels will be given back to the lender.

    That also shows the dangers of private equity overleverage: $725m of debt for two hotels? The hotel business is dangerously low margin at the best of time, and they'd need to clear $250m in EBITDA just to avoid a technical default.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Downtown Cincinnati. 6.26pm. Rush hour

    This is a “busy” city of 2m people





    As I said yesterday: is the problem American sobriety?
    British city centres are doing ok because the British need to drink, and therefore need somewhere they can get to without driving. So even if they're not actually working in town, they're coming there afterwards for a drink. But if your evening consists of soft drinks and a drive home, city centres hold no particular advantage.
    It’s a whole combination of things. The innate American love of the suburb and the car. The loathing of public transport. The big houses that are nice to WFH in. The general fucked up nature of American city centers - drugs, homeless, urbanscapes ruined by car lots and shit buildings

    But this is an enormous problem and I’m encountering it everywhere. Denver last year. Cincinnati now. Multiple other places

    It’s desolate. Ffs this is a city twice the size of Manchester and this is the buzzing heart. On a beautiful balmy evening of about 25C





    But this is not new.

    I remember visiting LA in 1999, being downtown, and thinking "wait, wtf?"

    Leon said:

    Downtown Cincinnati. 6.26pm. Rush hour

    This is a “busy” city of 2m people





    6.26 PM is the tail-end of rush hour in most US cities.

    AND empty downtowns in US cities after working hours is NOT a new development. Many decades old.

    Ain't saying it's a plus. But not sign of impending doom.

    ADDENDUM - So WHY are you hanging around in downtown this evening, when the REAL Cincinnati is clearly elsewhere.

    Suggest you head up the hill, toward the U of Cincinnati, AND check out Taft's bathtub!
    No this is bollocks. As is the comment by @rcs1000

    All the offices are empty. For Lease

    Open your eyes. Urban America is dying





    I am sure if you went to Manhattan or downtown Chicago or Seattle or Boston or Miami you would find it a bit busier, Cincanniti is really a lot of office blocks with a few restaurants for lunch surrounded by suburbia
    I found a nice historic quarter with all the churches



    Head up a little ways north, and see the Taft House. And tell 'em your editor INSISTS you measure the bathtub.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    America is a fucked up toilet-cum-zombieland

    No wonder they are prepared to vote for Trump
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    The problem with zombie cities is as much social as economic. How can divisions be overcome if people don't mix?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    So is today's story from the PB content / click generator about going to a business district after work and finding it empty?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Leon said:

    America is a fucked up toilet-cum-zombieland

    No wonder they are prepared to vote for Trump

    Other countries are available.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    The problem with zombie cities is as much social as economic. How can divisions be overcome if people don't mix?

    Overcoming divisions is so turn of the millenium. Thesedays we're all about hyperfocus on differences and stoking up recrimination and division because we must atone for the sins of our ancestors or something.

    (No I'm not saying there are not existing problems that need to be dealt with in society, but come on, some modern ideas don't even seem to have the intent to reduce division).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    EPG said:

    So is today's story from the PB content / click generator about going to a business district after work and finding it empty?

    Then you’ll be glad to hear I have reached the hip new urban hood of Over the Rhine. Entertainment central, where all the cool kids hang out and the trendy restaurants proliferate

    It reminds me of Shoreditch or Borough on a buzzy summer evening

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    EPG said:

    So is today's story from the PB content / click generator about going to a business district after work and finding it empty?

    I keep telling Leon to get his skinny (I presume) ass out of downtown.

    Bourbon tasting room does NOT count. Esp. when populated by Kentucky Briars NOT Ohio Buckeyes.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    No doubt Cincinnati is empty.
    Who in hell goes to Cincinnati?

    There is a list of great American cities.
    That list does not include Cincinnati.

    It’s like an American moaning about the lack of a Harrod’s in Reading.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited June 2023
    Cincinnati WAS a great American City . . . circa 1850.

    Its heyday ended when railroads and freight cars, overtook steamboats and barges.

    Thereafter, relative decline of Cincinnati, St Louis & New Orleans matched by rise of Chicago and Kansas City.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Cincinnati WAS a great American City . . . circa 1850.

    Its heyday ended when railroads and freight cars, overtook steamboats and barges.

    Thereafter, relative decline of Cincinnati, St Louis & New Orleans matched by rise of Chicago and Kansas City.

    I am reading American history at the moment.
    Cincinnati? Famous for its pork lard. In about 1850.

    I’m frankly amazed there is a direct flight to London.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    No doubt Cincinnati is empty.
    Who in hell goes to Cincinnati?

    There is a list of great American cities.
    That list does not include Cincinnati.

    It’s like an American moaning about the lack of a Harrod’s in Reading.

    Denver was exactly the same. I posted the photos here

    Plus multiple other US cities I’ve been to, in different ways
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Downtown Cincinnati. 6.26pm. Rush hour

    This is a “busy” city of 2m people





    6.26 PM is the tail-end of rush hour in most US cities.

    AND empty downtowns in US cities after working hours is NOT a new development. Many decades old.

    Ain't saying it's a plus. But not sign of impending doom.

    ADDENDUM - So WHY are you hanging around in downtown this evening, when the REAL Cincinnati is clearly elsewhere.

    Suggest you head up the hill, toward the U of Cincinnati, AND check out Taft's bathtub!
    Or:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over-the-Rhine

    Dodgy as heck when I used to visit but since gentrified
    That’s where I’m sleeping tonight. Over the Rhine

    It has pretty period buildings - and more people - but unfortunately it is still dodgy as fuck
    Have you been here: https://www.cincymuseum.org/union-terminal/

    It has a "whispering gallery" effect round the great arch
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited June 2023
    Leon said:

    No doubt Cincinnati is empty.
    Who in hell goes to Cincinnati?

    There is a list of great American cities.
    That list does not include Cincinnati.

    It’s like an American moaning about the lack of a Harrod’s in Reading.

    Denver was exactly the same. I posted the photos here

    Plus multiple other US cities I’ve been to, in different ways
    Nobody cares about Denver. They care about Colorado.
    Essentially you’re a slightly higher class version of the English tourist in the Costa del Sol, complaining that the Spanish don’t eat egg and chips.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    EPG said:

    So is today's story from the PB content / click generator about going to a business district after work and finding it empty?

    Amazingly, and coincidentally, this is indisputable evidence that confirms the writer's existing beliefs.

    If only there was a name for that psychological phenomenon...

    I, on the other hand, will be going to a soccer match this evening, where 25,000 screaming LAFC fans will be singing Jump for LA Football Club Ole! Ole!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKAyfwcHHw0&ab_channel=LAFC
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Apropos of nothing (and who is up at this hour in the UK), there is a whole sun-genre of tweets about Rishi’s serial wardrobe misfunctions.

    Boris of course was just a slob.
    But Rishi, who has all the money in the world, just seems to buy child’s clothing or something. Nothing seems to fit him properly.

    https://twitter.com/generalboles/status/1666469965967380485?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    A bit of perspective - Cincinnati is the US's 64th largest city by population:

    https://www.moving.com/tips/largest-cities-in-us/

    Colchester is the 64th in the UK:

    http://www.geoba.se/population.php?cc=GB&page=1

    On a pure population basis, Cincinnati has about as many people as Coventry.


  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Cincinnati WAS a great American City . . . circa 1850.

    Its heyday ended when railroads and freight cars, overtook steamboats and barges.

    Thereafter, relative decline of Cincinnati, St Louis & New Orleans matched by rise of Chicago and Kansas City.

    I am reading American history at the moment.
    Cincinnati? Famous for its pork lard. In about 1850.

    I’m frankly amazed there is a direct flight to London.
    It's a Delta hub.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    rcs1000 said:

    EPG said:

    So is today's story from the PB content / click generator about going to a business district after work and finding it empty?

    Amazingly, and coincidentally, this is indisputable evidence that confirms the writer's existing beliefs.

    If only there was a name for that psychological phenomenon...

    I, on the other hand, will be going to a soccer match this evening, where 25,000 screaming LAFC fans will be singing Jump for LA Football Club Ole! Ole!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKAyfwcHHw0&ab_channel=LAFC
    I came here absolutely prepared to have my grave anxieties about America dismissed. Indeed I rather wanted that. America is - still - the arsenal of democracy and the final citadel of the Free World. I was hoping all those images of fucked downtowns on social media were giving a false impression

    They are not giving a false impression. To see such a great country in such absolute and obvious decline is painful

    In the end you can’t ignore the most direct statistic of all. Life expectancy. Which in America is now lower than in Panama and Thailand. This decay is tangentially symptomised in the rotting of America’s urban centres
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    EPG said:

    So is today's story from the PB content / click generator about going to a business district after work and finding it empty?

    Amazingly, and coincidentally, this is indisputable evidence that confirms the writer's existing beliefs.

    If only there was a name for that psychological phenomenon...

    I, on the other hand, will be going to a soccer match this evening, where 25,000 screaming LAFC fans will be singing Jump for LA Football Club Ole! Ole!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKAyfwcHHw0&ab_channel=LAFC
    I came here absolutely prepared to have my grave anxieties about America dismissed. Indeed I rather wanted that. America is - still - the arsenal of democracy and the final citadel of the Free World. I was hoping all those images of fucked downtowns on social media were giving a false impression

    They are not giving a false impression. To see such a great country in such absolute and obvious decline is painful

    In the end you can’t ignore the most direct statistic of all. Life expectancy. Which in America is now lower than in Panama and Thailand. This decay is tangentially symptomised in the rotting of America’s urban centres
    Its kind of nonsense though. The collapsing life expectancy isn't due to urban areas. Its all the right wing retards that wouldn't take vaccines during an incredibly lethal pandemic.

    The much better marker is fertility rate, where, yes, the US is doing badly. But it is doing a damn sight better than China.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    A bit of perspective - Cincinnati is the US's 64th largest city by population:

    https://www.moving.com/tips/largest-cities-in-us/

    Colchester is the 64th in the UK:

    http://www.geoba.se/population.php?cc=GB&page=1

    On a pure population basis, Cincinnati has about as many people as Coventry.


    Metro Cincinnati has a population of 2.3 million. 50% bigger than metro Liverpool.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    As far as I know, the key points of interest in Cincinnati include

    > the Ohio River which is one of the most beautiful rivers in the world, hence old French moniker 'la belle Riviere" (sp); check out riverwalk and possibly a boat ride.

    > interesting museums, Cincinnati being an old money town (for example, the Tafts and Longworths) with some appreciate of high (and also low) culture.

    > interesting old-school taverns and dive bars, featuring local delicacies such as Cincy chile washed down with ice-cold Hudepohl.

    > storied major league sports teams, Bengals and Reds, esp. (at least for me) the latter; back in my misspent youth in the wilds of Appalachia, the Cincinnati Reds baseball team was THE team for about 98% of folks in southern West Virginia. Of course, that was back in their heyday, when Pete Rose was a Big Star and not a small turd. Though would NOT suggest saying THAT in WVa even today OR in Cincinnati.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    WillG said:

    A bit of perspective - Cincinnati is the US's 64th largest city by population:

    https://www.moving.com/tips/largest-cities-in-us/

    Colchester is the 64th in the UK:

    http://www.geoba.se/population.php?cc=GB&page=1

    On a pure population basis, Cincinnati has about as many people as Coventry.


    Metro Cincinnati has a population of 2.3 million. 50% bigger than metro Liverpool.
    Not sure about metro Liverpool, but in metro Cincinnati, large % of people hardly ever go to the city itself, except buzzing through on the way to the airport or suchlike.

    And another large % work in the city but live in burbs and exurbs and are NOT in city outside working hours and commuting; traditionally these were dominated by white-collar professionals, but nowadays increasing blue-collar service workers.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    WillG said:

    A bit of perspective - Cincinnati is the US's 64th largest city by population:

    https://www.moving.com/tips/largest-cities-in-us/

    Colchester is the 64th in the UK:

    http://www.geoba.se/population.php?cc=GB&page=1

    On a pure population basis, Cincinnati has about as many people as Coventry.


    Metro Cincinnati has a population of 2.3 million. 50% bigger than metro Liverpool.
    Not sure about metro Liverpool, but in metro Cincinnati, large % of people hardly ever go to the city itself, except buzzing through on the way to the airport or suchlike.

    And another large % work in the city but live in burbs and exurbs and are NOT in city outside working hours and commuting; traditionally these were dominated by white-collar professionals, but nowadays increasing blue-collar service workers.
    Yes, and also America has dozens and dozens of big cities. At any point in time a bunch are growing and a bunch are shrinking. Go to Austin or Phoenix or Denver or Raleigh.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    My own most memorable Cincinnati experience was - perhaps - typically American, in that I was cruising through the place on the interstate.

    It was a summer night, I was driving from college to my hometown, and Cincinnati was on the way. Note that in addition to several interstate highways that go through the burg, there is an interstate ring road that's used by most of the through traffic.

    However, for me the shortest route was right through downtown, then across the Ohio River into Kentucky, then BACK over the Ohio into State of same ilk, then away from the metro maze toward my final destination. AND would time my travel to avoid rush hours.

    So anyway, it's a nice summer night, and I'm cruising along, with very little traffic, through downtown Cincinnati. Approaching the old Riverfront Stadium, home of Cincinnati Reds . . . while listening to broadcast of Red's home game on the car radio.

    Just as I'm passing Riverfront, a Red's batter scored a home run. And suddenly fireworks erupted from stadium. Amazing, serendipitous sight.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    EPG said:

    So is today's story from the PB content / click generator about going to a business district after work and finding it empty?

    Amazingly, and coincidentally, this is indisputable evidence that confirms the writer's existing beliefs.

    If only there was a name for that psychological phenomenon...

    I, on the other hand, will be going to a soccer match this evening, where 25,000 screaming LAFC fans will be singing Jump for LA Football Club Ole! Ole!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKAyfwcHHw0&ab_channel=LAFC
    I came here absolutely prepared to have my grave anxieties about America dismissed. Indeed I rather wanted that. America is - still - the arsenal of democracy and the final citadel of the Free World. I was hoping all those images of fucked downtowns on social media were giving a false impression

    They are not giving a false impression. To see such a great country in such absolute and obvious decline is painful

    In the end you can’t ignore the most direct statistic of all. Life expectancy. Which in America is now lower than in Panama and Thailand. This decay is tangentially symptomised in the rotting of America’s urban centres
    Its kind of nonsense though. The collapsing life expectancy isn't due to urban areas. Its all the right wing retards that wouldn't take vaccines during an incredibly lethal pandemic.

    The much better marker is fertility rate, where, yes, the US is doing badly. But it is doing a damn sight better than China.
    That is bollocks about US life expectancy decline being due to Covid. There are many reasons for the decline but they include obesity, diet, poor healthcare, opioids, overdoses and crime

    “The researchers catalog what they call the "U.S. health disadvantage" – the fact that living in America is worse for your health and makes you more likely to die younger than if you lived in another rich country like the U.K., Switzerland or Japan.

    "We went into this with an open mind as to why it is that the U.S. had a shorter life expectancy than people in other countries," says Woolf, who chaired the committee that produced the report. After looking across different age and racial and economic and geographic groups, he says, "what we found was that this problem existed in almost every category we looked at."”

    Even the rich die younger. America is fucked

    https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/03/25/1164819944/live-free-and-die-the-sad-state-of-u-s-life-expectancy
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    A bit of perspective - Cincinnati is the US's 64th largest city by population:

    https://www.moving.com/tips/largest-cities-in-us/

    Colchester is the 64th in the UK:

    http://www.geoba.se/population.php?cc=GB&page=1

    On a pure population basis, Cincinnati has about as many people as Coventry.


    Metro Cincinnati has a population of 2.3 million. 50% bigger than metro Liverpool.
    Not sure about metro Liverpool, but in metro Cincinnati, large % of people hardly ever go to the city itself, except buzzing through on the way to the airport or suchlike.

    And another large % work in the city but live in burbs and exurbs and are NOT in city outside working hours and commuting; traditionally these were dominated by white-collar professionals, but nowadays increasing blue-collar service workers.
    Yes, and also America has dozens and dozens of big cities. At any point in time a bunch are growing and a bunch are shrinking. Go to Austin or Phoenix or Denver or Raleigh.
    I went to Denver. Last year. It is also fucked. Downtown is deserted
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited June 2023
    WillG said:

    A bit of perspective - Cincinnati is the US's 64th largest city by population:

    https://www.moving.com/tips/largest-cities-in-us/

    Colchester is the 64th in the UK:

    http://www.geoba.se/population.php?cc=GB&page=1

    On a pure population basis, Cincinnati has about as many people as Coventry.


    Metro Cincinnati has a population of 2.3 million. 50% bigger than metro Liverpool.
    This has Metro Cinci at 1.8M - no 31 in the USA:

    https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/largest-cities-by-population

    Metro Liverpool/Birkenhead is 2.2M:

    https://citymonitor.ai/infrastructure/where-are-largest-cities-britain-1404

    One of the issues is definitions - is Birmingham "bigger" than Manchester? Depends on how you define it - one method is connectivity via public transport - which makes sense in the UK, but none whatsoever in most of the US.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553

    My own most memorable Cincinnati experience was - perhaps - typically American, in that I was cruising through the place on the interstate.

    It was a summer night, I was driving from college to my hometown, and Cincinnati was on the way. Note that in addition to several interstate highways that go through the burg, there is an interstate ring road that's used by most of the through traffic.

    However, for me the shortest route was right through downtown, then across the Ohio River into Kentucky, then BACK over the Ohio into State of same ilk, then away from the metro maze toward my final destination. AND would time my travel to avoid rush hours.

    So anyway, it's a nice summer night, and I'm cruising along, with very little traffic, through downtown Cincinnati. Approaching the old Riverfront Stadium, home of Cincinnati Reds . . . while listening to broadcast of Red's home game on the car radio.

    Just as I'm passing Riverfront, a Red's batter scored a home run. And suddenly fireworks erupted from stadium. Amazing, serendipitous sight.

    I don't drive, so I can only imagine what this is like.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Don't think that's how it works......

    Prince Harry today admitted to a judge he was not aware of 'any evidence' he had been hacked by a tabloid news group.

    But he said it would be an 'injustice' if he was denied victory in his High Court phone-hacking case against the publisher of the Mirror.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12171325/Barrister-aware-evidence-hacking-Prince-Harry-No.html
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    .I absolutely confirm this information. Our volunteers report that people beg for help on their roofs. There are bodies in the water, mostly elderly people. Several UA volunteers try to help but it’s not enough.

    Please follow @novakakhovka_ua for live updates....

    https://twitter.com/a_is_for_anna_/status/1666538905896730629


    ...It looks like villages on the left bank, the occupied side, are being blocked by the Russian occupiers. People sit on their roofs and beg for help, but no one is coming. We see them on drone footage, but we cannot help.
    International organizations must interfere ASAP.

    https://twitter.com/vamelina/status/1666512864738156551
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Murder by other means:
    “Russian forces are actively preventing 🇺🇦 authorities from rescuing ppl trapped by flooding in occupied areas…Local civilians are the only hope for many residents, with Russians barring 🇺🇦 rescue services & outsiders from the area”

    https://twitter.com/berlin_bridge/status/1666559226037121025
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Not Kakhovka Dam alone: Russia destroys dams in occupied Zaporizhzhia oblast
    08.06.2023
    Halya Coynash
    While western media largely ‘play safe’ and report that Kyiv and Moscow ‘are blaming each other’ for the horrific disaster, the Russian invaders are actively destroying other dams in occupied parts of Zaporizhzhia oblast
    https://khpg.org/en/1608812358
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Rescue operation after dam collapse shows Ukrainians’ resilient spirit
    As flood waters from the Dnipro River continue to rise, an army of boats have gone out to save people and their pets
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/07/rescue-operation-after-dam-collapse-shows-ukrainians-resilient-spirit

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    you are experiencing the worst man-made disaster in your country since Chornobyl fighting the biggest war in Europe since the Second World War, but the leading discussion is: we don't know who could have done it, we have no ideas, it must be nature itself...
    https://twitter.com/ermineah/status/1666333208495915008
    ...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Trump notified that he is the target of ongoing criminal investigation
    He is under investigation for concealing reams of classified information at his private estate and orchestrating a scheme to prevent federal authorities from finding them.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/07/trump-notified-that-he-is-the-target-of-an-ongoing-criminal-investigation-00100920
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    This thread has suffered an unexplained failure been demolished by Russian war criminals.
This discussion has been closed.