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Trump’s legal problems set to get much worse – politicalbetting.com

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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    “The non-human intelligence phenomenon is real. We are not alone,” Grey said. “Retrievals of this kind are not limited to the United States. This is a global phenomenon, and yet a global solution continues to elude us.”

    😎😶

    And on we rumble, endless attention seeking whistle blowers with no evidence. Keep believing, Leon, keep believing.
    My point has always been that we are witnessing increasingly inexplicable behaviour from American officials - military, political, intel - which CAN only be explained if 1 you accept they are all going mad, 2 there is some incredibly massive psyops operation (who? When? Why?), or 3 they genuinely have evidence of non-human intelligence

    Any of these explanations is surpassingly
    interesting. They all remain possible. Recent evidence points more towards explanation 3
    My theory? Satellite tv. Endless channels need filling. Endless ghost hunting shows seeing ‘orbs’, commonly known as specks of dust.
    Endless Bigfoot programmes- is this the episode where they finally find Bigfoot? Clearly not as it would have been headline news.
    There is a huge market for this kind of stuff, and grifters gotta grift.
    Grifters?


    The journalist who broke this story is an extremely senior New York Times veteran. These people are not loons. Nor do they need the money. They have reputations


    “To be clear -- the Washington Post did not pass on our UAP story. Leslie and I took it to the Debrief because we were under growing pressure to publish it very quickly. The Post needed more time and we couldn't wait. #UAP #UFOs #flyingsaucers #ET #aliens #extraterrestrials”

    https://twitter.com/ralphblu/status/1665809626200264705?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    The whistle blowers. The next generation Bob Lazars.
    No evidence anywhere. The ‘best’ evidence of UAPs totally underwhelming. Remember the balloon flap of recent months? What happened to that?
    You’re the twit who totally denied lab leak until about 3 weeks ago.

    You can dismiss aliens or ET as an explanation - that’s entirely plausible - but then you have to explain the behaviour by large numbers of very senior American generals, spies, politicians, journalists, senators, even presidents

    It’s not just “grifters grifting” FFS. That’s imbecilic
    No I didn’t. I said I think that it’s perfectly possible to be a natural cause. I still think that.

    I’ve been following UFO and other Fortean stuff all my life. This is just another flap. There is no evidence. Go back to the dawn of radar. Plenty of weird stuff seen. Radar gets better, less weird stuff. Arguably each new technology or iteration leads to new flaps of stuff, just like the current fluff about balloons. Because detectors can suddenly start to see them, doesn't make them new or turn them into alien craft.

    I would be the happiest person on PB if it turned out to be aliens. I think it would be an epochal event.

    I just don’t think the bullshit being pushed is it.
    Yes, being underwhelmed by breathless reactions to some of this stuff doesn't mean people simply don't want to accept the idea - on the contrary some would like it to be so!

    I do worry about first contact though, since no matter what it might involve at some point some human somehwere will want to have sex with the visitor, and that might offend them.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    Eabhal said:

    It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that pregnant teenagers are pregnant because they and/or their partners don't know how babies are made. Perhaps this is true in a few edge cases where people may have mental development issues. Many girls see pregnancy as a way of leaving home and being given the wherewithal to live. Assuming a decline in teenage motherhood is desirable (rather than welcoming it as a way to address population decline), I really don't think it can be addressed by sex education at a younger age.

    And yet, that appears to be exactly what has happened.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/bulletins/conceptionstatistics/2021#:~:text=The conception rate for women,women of the same age.
    That's such an extraordinary change I would assume something else is going on. Social media?
    "Over the last 18 years there has been significant progress on teenage pregnancy. The under-18 conception rate has fallen by 62% and the under-16 conception rate by over 65%. Both are now at the lowest level since 1969"

    "The international evidence for reducing teenage pregnancy is clear 1,2,3. Building the knowledge, skills, resilience and aspirations of young people and providing easy access to welcoming services, helps them to delay sex until they are ready to enjoy healthy, consensual relationships and to use contraception to prevent unplanned pregnancy. An open culture and ease of parental communication around sexual issues are also associated with lower teenage pregnancy rates"


    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/836597/Teenage_Pregnancy_Prevention_Framework.pdf
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987

    It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that pregnant teenagers are pregnant because they and/or their partners don't know how babies are made. Perhaps this is true in a few edge cases where people may have mental development issues. Many girls see pregnancy as a way of leaving home and being given the wherewithal to live. Assuming a decline in teenage motherhood is desirable (rather than welcoming it as a way to address population decline), I really don't think it can be addressed by sex education at a younger age.

    And yet, that appears to be exactly what has happened.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/bulletins/conceptionstatistics/2021#:~:text=The conception rate for women,women of the same age.
    Was there so much less sex education in 2011? I doubt it. More a further reflection of the decline of motherhood and the family with those who do have children increasingly waiting until well into their 30s or their early 40s
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    edited June 2023
    Eabhal said:

    It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that pregnant teenagers are pregnant because they and/or their partners don't know how babies are made. Perhaps this is true in a few edge cases where people may have mental development issues. Many girls see pregnancy as a way of leaving home and being given the wherewithal to live. Assuming a decline in teenage motherhood is desirable (rather than welcoming it as a way to address population decline), I really don't think it can be addressed by sex education at a younger age.

    And yet, that appears to be exactly what has happened.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/bulletins/conceptionstatistics/2021#:~:text=The conception rate for women,women of the same age.
    That's such an extraordinary change I would assume something else is going on. Social media?
    Mobile phones...a big factor in the drop in teenage smoking too.

    There was a pretty good idea of both contraception and sex education when I was a young teenager, and a lot of sexual activity. The culture in the Eighties was much more promiscuous than now.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468
    Eabhal said:

    It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that pregnant teenagers are pregnant because they and/or their partners don't know how babies are made. Perhaps this is true in a few edge cases where people may have mental development issues. Many girls see pregnancy as a way of leaving home and being given the wherewithal to live. Assuming a decline in teenage motherhood is desirable (rather than welcoming it as a way to address population decline), I really don't think it can be addressed by sex education at a younger age.

    And yet, that appears to be exactly what has happened.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/bulletins/conceptionstatistics/2021#:~:text=The conception rate for women,women of the same age.
    That's such an extraordinary change I would assume something else is going on. Social media?
    At a guess, it's linked to the (effective) raising of the school leaving age from 16 to 18, which Gordon Brown legislated for and came into force in the early years of the Cameron government. (Technically, you don't have to stay in school, but the overwhelming majority do.)
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    HYUFD said:

    It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that pregnant teenagers are pregnant because they and/or their partners don't know how babies are made. Perhaps this is true in a few edge cases where people may have mental development issues. Many girls see pregnancy as a way of leaving home and being given the wherewithal to live. Assuming a decline in teenage motherhood is desirable (rather than welcoming it as a way to address population decline), I really don't think it can be addressed by sex education at a younger age.

    And yet, that appears to be exactly what has happened.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/bulletins/conceptionstatistics/2021#:~:text=The conception rate for women,women of the same age.
    Was there so much less sex education in 2011? I doubt it. More a further reflection of the decline of motherhood and the family with those who do have children increasingly waiting until well into their 30s or their early 40s
    And we get back to house prices and home ownership......
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,871
    Eabhal said:

    It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that pregnant teenagers are pregnant because they and/or their partners don't know how babies are made. Perhaps this is true in a few edge cases where people may have mental development issues. Many girls see pregnancy as a way of leaving home and being given the wherewithal to live. Assuming a decline in teenage motherhood is desirable (rather than welcoming it as a way to address population decline), I really don't think it can be addressed by sex education at a younger age.

    And yet, that appears to be exactly what has happened.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/bulletins/conceptionstatistics/2021#:~:text=The conception rate for women,women of the same age.
    That's such an extraordinary change I would assume something else is going on. Social media?
    'Life' is going on. Trying to infer from the broadest national stats, benefits from a specific educational change or set of changes is silly, as I am sure Ben knows.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    HYUFD said:

    It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that pregnant teenagers are pregnant because they and/or their partners don't know how babies are made. Perhaps this is true in a few edge cases where people may have mental development issues. Many girls see pregnancy as a way of leaving home and being given the wherewithal to live. Assuming a decline in teenage motherhood is desirable (rather than welcoming it as a way to address population decline), I really don't think it can be addressed by sex education at a younger age.

    And yet, that appears to be exactly what has happened.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/bulletins/conceptionstatistics/2021#:~:text=The conception rate for women,women of the same age.
    Was there so much less sex education in 2011? I doubt it. More a further reflection of the decline of motherhood and the family with those who do have children increasingly waiting until well into their 30s or their early 40s
    Look at the chart on page 14 of this. The teenage pregnancy rate had already fallen by a third by 2011.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/836597/Teenage_Pregnancy_Prevention_Framework.pdf
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147

    HYUFD said:

    It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that pregnant teenagers are pregnant because they and/or their partners don't know how babies are made. Perhaps this is true in a few edge cases where people may have mental development issues. Many girls see pregnancy as a way of leaving home and being given the wherewithal to live. Assuming a decline in teenage motherhood is desirable (rather than welcoming it as a way to address population decline), I really don't think it can be addressed by sex education at a younger age.

    And yet, that appears to be exactly what has happened.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/bulletins/conceptionstatistics/2021#:~:text=The conception rate for women,women of the same age.
    Was there so much less sex education in 2011? I doubt it. More a further reflection of the decline of motherhood and the family with those who do have children increasingly waiting until well into their 30s or their early 40s
    And we get back to house prices and home ownership......
    Please not. 🙏

    This isn't a middle class dinner party.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,690

    Eabhal said:

    It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that pregnant teenagers are pregnant because they and/or their partners don't know how babies are made. Perhaps this is true in a few edge cases where people may have mental development issues. Many girls see pregnancy as a way of leaving home and being given the wherewithal to live. Assuming a decline in teenage motherhood is desirable (rather than welcoming it as a way to address population decline), I really don't think it can be addressed by sex education at a younger age.

    And yet, that appears to be exactly what has happened.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/bulletins/conceptionstatistics/2021#:~:text=The conception rate for women,women of the same age.
    That's such an extraordinary change I would assume something else is going on. Social media?
    At a guess, it's linked to the (effective) raising of the school leaving age from 16 to 18, which Gordon Brown legislated for and came into force in the early years of the Cameron government. (Technically, you don't have to stay in school, but the overwhelming majority do.)
    I think there is something more than that happening though. Look at the rates of teetotalism in younger people. There has been a remarkable increase in the numbers of students who don't drink. I have no idea why this is but there is a definite trend towards shunning the vices at the moment amongst younger people
  • WestieWestie Posts: 426
    edited June 2023

    Westie said:

    Is there much evidence for the view that teenagers who give birth when they're aged over 16y9m wouldn't have got pregnant if they'd had more sex education?

    Yes
    The proportion of conceptions that are followed by abortions is rising though. It's been increasing for all age groups since 2015. What happens to the education? Sounds a bit like Cinderella's coach. Anyway the state should stay TF out of discouraging people who are over the age of consent from making babies. That just shouldn't be a policy aim. "Our bodies are our own". (And Malthus can do one.)

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/bulletins/conceptionstatistics/2021#teenage-conceptions
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited June 2023

    HYUFD said:

    It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that pregnant teenagers are pregnant because they and/or their partners don't know how babies are made. Perhaps this is true in a few edge cases where people may have mental development issues. Many girls see pregnancy as a way of leaving home and being given the wherewithal to live. Assuming a decline in teenage motherhood is desirable (rather than welcoming it as a way to address population decline), I really don't think it can be addressed by sex education at a younger age.

    And yet, that appears to be exactly what has happened.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/bulletins/conceptionstatistics/2021#:~:text=The conception rate for women,women of the same age.
    Was there so much less sex education in 2011? I doubt it. More a further reflection of the decline of motherhood and the family with those who do have children increasingly waiting until well into their 30s or their early 40s
    Look at the chart on page 14 of this. The teenage pregnancy rate had already fallen by a third by 2011.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/836597/Teenage_Pregnancy_Prevention_Framework.pdf
    As I said further evidence of the ever increasing age of UK first time mothers, now well over 30 and our birth rate well below replacement level. We could probably now do with a few more late teen pregnancies and mothers not even less
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    kle4 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    I'll try for a distraction - here's yet another story about actors not understanding the concept of acting

    Michael Sheen: ‘I find it very hard to accept actors playing Welsh characters when they aren’t...'
    Has he taken the concept of authentic casting to a whole new level? Ahead of his latest BBC drama Best Interests, the star explains all

    https://t.co/VqYDu701zh

    @emmarevell: This attitude is so exhausting. Acting by it's very definition is pretending to be something or someone you are not

    @JonHollis9: Particularly given Michael Sheen has played a vampire, a werewolf, an angel, Jesus, Brian Clough, David Frost and Tony Blair (multiple times).

    Imagine the state of his career if he were only allowed to play middle aged Welsh men.

    I remember reading Maureen Lipman saying something like "If this nonsense carries on, you'll only be allowed to play yourself".
    'Authenticity' in acting is one of those concepts where I don't even understand why and how it arose as a supposedly progressive idea when pushed to the extremes we now see.

    I get concerns about apparent lack of ethnic roles which are not stereotypes, and the solution of improving that with a combination of more roles which would be appropriate (and not distracting, like Benedict Cumberbatch playing Nelson Mandela or Idris Elba playing Oliver Cromwell) and race-blind casting where it doesn't even matter seems already to be working, yet at the exact same time the opposite of raceblind casting, where the actor should match exactly, or as near as possible, to the role, seems increasingly popular.
    Casting for the Tiger Woods biopic will be interesting. Good luck finding the 1/4 Thai 1/4 Chinese 1/4 Caucausian, 1/8 African American, 1/8 Native American actors for the auditions.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Leon said:

    It is suitably weird that I am reading about UFO Disclosure…. In the tasting room of a Kentucky bourbon distillery. Hic


    Not at all. Seeing as how FAR more UFO sightings feature hard liquor as opposed to (actual) rocket fuel.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    edited June 2023

    Eabhal said:

    It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that pregnant teenagers are pregnant because they and/or their partners don't know how babies are made. Perhaps this is true in a few edge cases where people may have mental development issues. Many girls see pregnancy as a way of leaving home and being given the wherewithal to live. Assuming a decline in teenage motherhood is desirable (rather than welcoming it as a way to address population decline), I really don't think it can be addressed by sex education at a younger age.

    And yet, that appears to be exactly what has happened.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/bulletins/conceptionstatistics/2021#:~:text=The conception rate for women,women of the same age.
    That's such an extraordinary change I would assume something else is going on. Social media?
    At a guess, it's linked to the (effective) raising of the school leaving age from 16 to 18, which Gordon Brown legislated for and came into force in the early years of the Cameron government. (Technically, you don't have to stay in school, but the overwhelming majority do.)
    I think there is something more than that happening though. Look at the rates of teetotalism in younger people. There has been a remarkable increase in the numbers of students who don't drink. I have no idea why this is but there is a definite trend towards shunning the vices at the moment amongst younger people
    Yes, while obviously there are exceptions, over all youths are more sober and serious than previous generations. Particularly so for the university educated, even if that seriousness manifests in "woke" causes.

    With the exception of knife crime between young black men, there has been quite a drop off in casual violence too.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that pregnant teenagers are pregnant because they and/or their partners don't know how babies are made. Perhaps this is true in a few edge cases where people may have mental development issues. Many girls see pregnancy as a way of leaving home and being given the wherewithal to live. Assuming a decline in teenage motherhood is desirable (rather than welcoming it as a way to address population decline), I really don't think it can be addressed by sex education at a younger age.

    And yet, that appears to be exactly what has happened.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/bulletins/conceptionstatistics/2021#:~:text=The conception rate for women,women of the same age.
    Was there so much less sex education in 2011? I doubt it. More a further reflection of the decline of motherhood and the family with those who do have children increasingly waiting until well into their 30s or their early 40s
    Look at the chart on page 14 of this. The teenage pregnancy rate had already fallen by a third by 2011.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/836597/Teenage_Pregnancy_Prevention_Framework.pdf
    As I said further evidence of the ever increasing age of UK first time mothers, now well over 30 and our birth rate well below replacement level. We could probably now do with a few more late teen pregnancies and mothers not even less
    Right, we need Boris back from wherever he is on holiday, double quick.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    Eabhal said:

    It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that pregnant teenagers are pregnant because they and/or their partners don't know how babies are made. Perhaps this is true in a few edge cases where people may have mental development issues. Many girls see pregnancy as a way of leaving home and being given the wherewithal to live. Assuming a decline in teenage motherhood is desirable (rather than welcoming it as a way to address population decline), I really don't think it can be addressed by sex education at a younger age.

    And yet, that appears to be exactly what has happened.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/bulletins/conceptionstatistics/2021#:~:text=The conception rate for women,women of the same age.
    That's such an extraordinary change I would assume something else is going on. Social media?
    At a guess, it's linked to the (effective) raising of the school leaving age from 16 to 18, which Gordon Brown legislated for and came into force in the early years of the Cameron government. (Technically, you don't have to stay in school, but the overwhelming majority do.)
    I think there is something more than that happening though. Look at the rates of teetotalism in younger people. There has been a remarkable increase in the numbers of students who don't drink. I have no idea why this is but there is a definite trend towards shunning the vices at the moment amongst younger people
    Leon's already told us this one I think - young people are boring, their sperm counts are low, and they're puritannical.

    All might be true, but it's not really an explanation even if it is. High costs prohibit certain vices from spreading so much, which then means the next youngest also don't get into it, and the superfast spread of cultural norms online helps enforce monotonous acceptance of prevailing orthodoxy (or pushing into acceptable sub-niches) without needing other rebellious behaviour like drinking and drugs?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    “The non-human intelligence phenomenon is real. We are not alone,” Grey said. “Retrievals of this kind are not limited to the United States. This is a global phenomenon, and yet a global solution continues to elude us.”

    😎😶

    And on we rumble, endless attention seeking whistle blowers with no evidence. Keep believing, Leon, keep believing.
    My point has always been that we are witnessing increasingly inexplicable behaviour from American officials - military, political, intel - which CAN only be explained if 1 you accept they are all going mad, 2 there is some incredibly massive psyops operation (who? When? Why?), or 3 they genuinely have evidence of non-human intelligence

    Any of these explanations is surpassingly
    interesting. They all remain possible. Recent evidence points more towards explanation 3
    My theory? Satellite tv. Endless channels need filling. Endless ghost hunting shows seeing ‘orbs’, commonly known as specks of dust.
    Endless Bigfoot programmes- is this the episode where they finally find Bigfoot? Clearly not as it would have been headline news.
    There is a huge market for this kind of stuff, and grifters gotta grift.
    Grifters?


    The journalist who broke this story is an extremely senior New York Times veteran. These people are not loons. Nor do they need the money. They have reputations


    “To be clear -- the Washington Post did not pass on our UAP story. Leslie and I took it to the Debrief because we were under growing pressure to publish it very quickly. The Post needed more time and we couldn't wait. #UAP #UFOs #flyingsaucers #ET #aliens #extraterrestrials”

    https://twitter.com/ralphblu/status/1665809626200264705?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    The whistle blowers. The next generation Bob Lazars.
    No evidence anywhere. The ‘best’ evidence of UAPs totally underwhelming. Remember the balloon flap of recent months? What happened to that?
    You’re the twit who totally denied lab leak until about 3 weeks ago.

    You can dismiss aliens or ET as an explanation - that’s entirely plausible - but then you have to explain the behaviour by large numbers of very senior American generals, spies, politicians, journalists, senators, even presidents

    It’s not just “grifters grifting” FFS. That’s imbecilic
    I supose my problem with this is that one would expect that, having had high quality cameras being carried by practially every single person in the Western world and the majority in the whole world for the last 10-15 years, we would have seen a massive upsurge by many orders of magnitude in the number of recorded, photographed sitings of alien craft compared to, say, 30 years ago. And yet we do not. We get the same rare blurry images from the public and a few debatable images from the military or from civilain aviation but that explosion of confirmable sitings just hasn't happened.

    So unless the aliens suddeny decided to bugger off just at the moment we were developing the ability for teh man in the treet to record them, I think it is just so much hokum.

    I am not in any way intellectualy opposed to the idea of aliens. The idea that there are not millions of civilisations out there seems inconceivable to me. The idea they are managing to float around Earth with exactly the same degree of secrecy as they did 30 or 50 years ago seems.. unlikely.
    I agree. The lack of multiple photos from excellent phone cameras is a major pointer AGAINST “option 3”

    But then we are left with option 2: the USG is contriving some massive psyops…. But there are serious problems with that, too

    It’s a delicious mystery
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,424

    Eabhal said:

    It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that pregnant teenagers are pregnant because they and/or their partners don't know how babies are made. Perhaps this is true in a few edge cases where people may have mental development issues. Many girls see pregnancy as a way of leaving home and being given the wherewithal to live. Assuming a decline in teenage motherhood is desirable (rather than welcoming it as a way to address population decline), I really don't think it can be addressed by sex education at a younger age.

    And yet, that appears to be exactly what has happened.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/bulletins/conceptionstatistics/2021#:~:text=The conception rate for women,women of the same age.
    That's such an extraordinary change I would assume something else is going on. Social media?
    At a guess, it's linked to the (effective) raising of the school leaving age from 16 to 18, which Gordon Brown legislated for and came into force in the early years of the Cameron government. (Technically, you don't have to stay in school, but the overwhelming majority do.)
    I think there is something more than that happening though. Look at the rates of teetotalism in younger people. There has been a remarkable increase in the numbers of students who don't drink. I have no idea why this is but there is a definite trend towards shunning the vices at the moment amongst younger people
    Try this. Vices are acquired as a social tool - a ritual to enter a group, social lubrication, a means to overcome social inhibition. As people spend more time socialising online and/or with people with pre-selected common characteristics, the need to acquire a vice is much reduced.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that pregnant teenagers are pregnant because they and/or their partners don't know how babies are made. Perhaps this is true in a few edge cases where people may have mental development issues. Many girls see pregnancy as a way of leaving home and being given the wherewithal to live. Assuming a decline in teenage motherhood is desirable (rather than welcoming it as a way to address population decline), I really don't think it can be addressed by sex education at a younger age.

    And yet, that appears to be exactly what has happened.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/bulletins/conceptionstatistics/2021#:~:text=The conception rate for women,women of the same age.
    Was there so much less sex education in 2011? I doubt it. More a further reflection of the decline of motherhood and the family with those who do have children increasingly waiting until well into their 30s or their early 40s
    Look at the chart on page 14 of this. The teenage pregnancy rate had already fallen by a third by 2011.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/836597/Teenage_Pregnancy_Prevention_Framework.pdf
    As I said further evidence of the ever increasing age of UK first time mothers, now well over 30 and our birth rate well below replacement level. We could probably now do with a few more late teen pregnancies and mothers not even less
    Right, we need Boris back from wherever he is on holiday, double quick.
    Well nobody can say Boris hasn't done his bit to help turn around our declining birthrate
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491

    Eabhal said:

    It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that pregnant teenagers are pregnant because they and/or their partners don't know how babies are made. Perhaps this is true in a few edge cases where people may have mental development issues. Many girls see pregnancy as a way of leaving home and being given the wherewithal to live. Assuming a decline in teenage motherhood is desirable (rather than welcoming it as a way to address population decline), I really don't think it can be addressed by sex education at a younger age.

    And yet, that appears to be exactly what has happened.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/bulletins/conceptionstatistics/2021#:~:text=The conception rate for women,women of the same age.
    That's such an extraordinary change I would assume something else is going on. Social media?
    'Life' is going on. Trying to infer from the broadest national stats, benefits from a specific educational change or set of changes is silly, as I am sure Ben knows.
    Yes, there are limits to what can be concluded from broad national stats. However, the evidence in this case is much broader than that, from multiple countries and using various research designs.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    I'll try for a distraction - here's yet another story about actors not understanding the concept of acting

    Michael Sheen: ‘I find it very hard to accept actors playing Welsh characters when they aren’t...'
    Has he taken the concept of authentic casting to a whole new level? Ahead of his latest BBC drama Best Interests, the star explains all

    https://t.co/VqYDu701zh

    @emmarevell: This attitude is so exhausting. Acting by it's very definition is pretending to be something or someone you are not

    @JonHollis9: Particularly given Michael Sheen has played a vampire, a werewolf, an angel, Jesus, Brian Clough, David Frost and Tony Blair (multiple times).

    Imagine the state of his career if he were only allowed to play middle aged Welsh men.

    I remember reading Maureen Lipman saying something like "If this nonsense carries on, you'll only be allowed to play yourself".
    Plenty of actors (Michael Caine, for instance) had great careers doing just that.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806

    Eabhal said:

    It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that pregnant teenagers are pregnant because they and/or their partners don't know how babies are made. Perhaps this is true in a few edge cases where people may have mental development issues. Many girls see pregnancy as a way of leaving home and being given the wherewithal to live. Assuming a decline in teenage motherhood is desirable (rather than welcoming it as a way to address population decline), I really don't think it can be addressed by sex education at a younger age.

    And yet, that appears to be exactly what has happened.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/bulletins/conceptionstatistics/2021#:~:text=The conception rate for women,women of the same age.
    That's such an extraordinary change I would assume something else is going on. Social media?
    'Life' is going on. Trying to infer from the broadest national stats, benefits from a specific educational change or set of changes is silly, as I am sure Ben knows.
    It doesn't suit your argument, so you ignore it? There was a 62% drop in teenage pregnancies between 1998 and 2018.

    It's not just about Sex and Relationship Education of course but that is a key component.

    This study is interesting:

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(16)30449-4/fulltext#seccestitle10

    This is actually a cross-party government success, instigated under Labour, continued under the Conservative/LD coalition and the succeeding Conservative governments.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156

    Eabhal said:

    It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that pregnant teenagers are pregnant because they and/or their partners don't know how babies are made. Perhaps this is true in a few edge cases where people may have mental development issues. Many girls see pregnancy as a way of leaving home and being given the wherewithal to live. Assuming a decline in teenage motherhood is desirable (rather than welcoming it as a way to address population decline), I really don't think it can be addressed by sex education at a younger age.

    And yet, that appears to be exactly what has happened.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/bulletins/conceptionstatistics/2021#:~:text=The conception rate for women,women of the same age.
    That's such an extraordinary change I would assume something else is going on. Social media?
    At a guess, it's linked to the (effective) raising of the school leaving age from 16 to 18, which Gordon Brown legislated for and came into force in the early years of the Cameron government. (Technically, you don't have to stay in school, but the overwhelming majority do.)
    I think there is something more than that happening though. Look at the rates of teetotalism in younger people. There has been a remarkable increase in the numbers of students who don't drink. I have no idea why this is but there is a definite trend towards shunning the vices at the moment amongst younger people
    Social Media Photos/Rebelling against previous generations/Prices/Fitness/Religion in that order.
  • WestieWestie Posts: 426
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    “The non-human intelligence phenomenon is real. We are not alone,” Grey said. “Retrievals of this kind are not limited to the United States. This is a global phenomenon, and yet a global solution continues to elude us.”

    😎😶

    And on we rumble, endless attention seeking whistle blowers with no evidence. Keep believing, Leon, keep believing.
    My point has always been that we are witnessing increasingly inexplicable behaviour from American officials - military, political, intel - which CAN only be explained if 1 you accept they are all going mad, 2 there is some incredibly massive psyops operation (who? When? Why?), or 3 they genuinely have evidence of non-human intelligence

    Any of these explanations is surpassingly
    interesting. They all remain possible. Recent evidence points more towards explanation 3
    My theory? Satellite tv. Endless channels need filling. Endless ghost hunting shows seeing ‘orbs’, commonly known as specks of dust.
    Endless Bigfoot programmes- is this the episode where they finally find Bigfoot? Clearly not as it would have been headline news.
    There is a huge market for this kind of stuff, and grifters gotta grift.
    I saw a series of those programmes recently, and they were weirdly compelling, mostly to spot the tropes and formulas that became apparent very quickly. Like the one guy who is the 'skeptic' whose job is to go 'Well, I don't know it could have been [insert normal explanation], but it is weird', to 'experts' who are entirely self proclaimed without even an irrelevant PhD or job as the caterer at the FBI to lend authority.

    All narrated by someone who also does serious documentaries (or sounds like someone who does)

    I don't think we've beaten Paul Merton's description of Erich von Daniken as being the chap where the answer was always No to his quesitons.

    "Could this be a 14th century flying saucer?"
    "No"
    "Were the Aztecs the first astronauts?"
    "No"

    (These may be actual Danikenite claims)
    Erich von Daniken is no fool.

    To throw something in to the discussion:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    I made my own bourbon


  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491
    Westie said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    “The non-human intelligence phenomenon is real. We are not alone,” Grey said. “Retrievals of this kind are not limited to the United States. This is a global phenomenon, and yet a global solution continues to elude us.”

    😎😶

    And on we rumble, endless attention seeking whistle blowers with no evidence. Keep believing, Leon, keep believing.
    My point has always been that we are witnessing increasingly inexplicable behaviour from American officials - military, political, intel - which CAN only be explained if 1 you accept they are all going mad, 2 there is some incredibly massive psyops operation (who? When? Why?), or 3 they genuinely have evidence of non-human intelligence

    Any of these explanations is surpassingly
    interesting. They all remain possible. Recent evidence points more towards explanation 3
    My theory? Satellite tv. Endless channels need filling. Endless ghost hunting shows seeing ‘orbs’, commonly known as specks of dust.
    Endless Bigfoot programmes- is this the episode where they finally find Bigfoot? Clearly not as it would have been headline news.
    There is a huge market for this kind of stuff, and grifters gotta grift.
    I saw a series of those programmes recently, and they were weirdly compelling, mostly to spot the tropes and formulas that became apparent very quickly. Like the one guy who is the 'skeptic' whose job is to go 'Well, I don't know it could have been [insert normal explanation], but it is weird', to 'experts' who are entirely self proclaimed without even an irrelevant PhD or job as the caterer at the FBI to lend authority.

    All narrated by someone who also does serious documentaries (or sounds like someone who does)

    I don't think we've beaten Paul Merton's description of Erich von Daniken as being the chap where the answer was always No to his quesitons.

    "Could this be a 14th century flying saucer?"
    "No"
    "Were the Aztecs the first astronauts?"
    "No"

    (These may be actual Danikenite claims)
    Erich von Daniken is no fool.

    To throw something in to the discussion:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism
    From von Daniken's Wikipedia page:

    At the age of 19, he was given a four-month suspended sentence for theft.[6] He left the school and was apprenticed to a Swiss hotelier for a time,[7] before moving to Egypt. In December 1964, von Däniken wrote Hatten unsere Vorfahren Besuch aus dem Weltraum? ("Were Our Ancestors Visited from Space?") for the German-Canadian periodical Der Nordwesten.[8] While in Egypt, he was involved in a jewelry deal which resulted in a nine-month conviction for fraud and embezzlement upon his return to Switzerland.[6]

    Following his release, von Däniken became a manager of the Hotel Rosenhügel in Davos, Switzerland, during which time he wrote Chariots of the Gods? (German: Erinnerungen an die Zukunft, literally "Memories of the Future"), working on the manuscript late at night after the hotel's guests had retired.[9] The draft of the book was turned down by several publishers. Econ Verlag (now part of Ullstein Verlag) was willing to publish the book after a complete reworking by a professional author, Utz Utermann, who used the pseudonym of Wilhelm Roggersdorf. Utermann was a former editor of the Nazi Party's newspaper Völkischer Beobachter and had been a Nazi bestselling author.[10] The re-write of Chariots of the Gods? was accepted for publication early in 1967, but not printed until March 1968.[9]
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Nigelb said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    I'll try for a distraction - here's yet another story about actors not understanding the concept of acting

    Michael Sheen: ‘I find it very hard to accept actors playing Welsh characters when they aren’t...'
    Has he taken the concept of authentic casting to a whole new level? Ahead of his latest BBC drama Best Interests, the star explains all

    https://t.co/VqYDu701zh

    @emmarevell: This attitude is so exhausting. Acting by it's very definition is pretending to be something or someone you are not

    @JonHollis9: Particularly given Michael Sheen has played a vampire, a werewolf, an angel, Jesus, Brian Clough, David Frost and Tony Blair (multiple times).

    Imagine the state of his career if he were only allowed to play middle aged Welsh men.

    I remember reading Maureen Lipman saying something like "If this nonsense carries on, you'll only be allowed to play yourself".
    Plenty of actors (Michael Caine, for instance) had great careers doing just that.
    Indeed, many major stars have never actually been very versatile. Possibly most are rather limited in their range, at least as far as those casting even let them show range.

    It's like how there's been a bit more joking in the last few years about The Rock being one of the highest paid actors in the world despite not being a good actor. Might be a bit harsh, but clearly he gets the job done that people like. Most actors are not Gary Oldman broad in their ability.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662

    It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that pregnant teenagers are pregnant because they and/or their partners don't know how babies are made. Perhaps this is true in a few edge cases where people may have mental development issues. Many girls see pregnancy as a way of leaving home and being given the wherewithal to live. Assuming a decline in teenage motherhood is desirable (rather than welcoming it as a way to address population decline), I really don't think it can be addressed by sex education at a younger age.

    It may seem that way to you, but the people who have gone out and seen what actually happens disagree.

    From a UNESCO review of the available literature;

    The paper concludes that sex education programmes that are based on a comprehensive curriculum can delay the onset of sexual activity among adolescents and young people, reduce the frequency of intercourse, reduce the frequency of unprotected sex, reduce the number of sexual partners, and increase condom and contraceptive use. Furthermore, sex education programmes do not increase sexual activity among adolescents and young people and generally result in increased knowledge about human sexuality.

    https://healtheducationresources.unesco.org/library/documents/impact-sex-education-sexual-behaviour-young-people

    As to why... one of the things that adolescents like is discovery and breaking taboos. It's why they are both profoundly annoying and surprisingly life-enhancing to teach. If adults aren't talking about sex, it increases the taboo factor which increases the thrill.

    It's what Scandinavians have got right. Talk about sex as a thing that happens in various forms. Domesticate it, so to speak. Seems to work in practice.
    With all due respect, that comes from an international organization that is probably taking direct orders from Davos.

    (Only kidding. But it was @Lucky you were talking too.)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    Nigelb said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    I'll try for a distraction - here's yet another story about actors not understanding the concept of acting

    Michael Sheen: ‘I find it very hard to accept actors playing Welsh characters when they aren’t...'
    Has he taken the concept of authentic casting to a whole new level? Ahead of his latest BBC drama Best Interests, the star explains all

    https://t.co/VqYDu701zh

    @emmarevell: This attitude is so exhausting. Acting by it's very definition is pretending to be something or someone you are not

    @JonHollis9: Particularly given Michael Sheen has played a vampire, a werewolf, an angel, Jesus, Brian Clough, David Frost and Tony Blair (multiple times).

    Imagine the state of his career if he were only allowed to play middle aged Welsh men.

    I remember reading Maureen Lipman saying something like "If this nonsense carries on, you'll only be allowed to play yourself".
    Plenty of actors (Michael Caine, for instance) had great careers doing just that.
    He even made his name as a Geordie with a cockney accent in "Get Carter".

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    SandraMc said:

    kle4 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    I'll try for a distraction - here's yet another story about actors not understanding the concept of acting

    Michael Sheen: ‘I find it very hard to accept actors playing Welsh characters when they aren’t...'
    Has he taken the concept of authentic casting to a whole new level? Ahead of his latest BBC drama Best Interests, the star explains all

    https://t.co/VqYDu701zh

    @emmarevell: This attitude is so exhausting. Acting by it's very definition is pretending to be something or someone you are not

    @JonHollis9: Particularly given Michael Sheen has played a vampire, a werewolf, an angel, Jesus, Brian Clough, David Frost and Tony Blair (multiple times).

    Imagine the state of his career if he were only allowed to play middle aged Welsh men.

    I remember reading Maureen Lipman saying something like "If this nonsense carries on, you'll only be allowed to play yourself".
    'Authenticity' in acting is one of those concepts where I don't even understand why and how it arose as a supposedly progressive idea when pushed to the extremes we now see.

    I get concerns about apparent lack of ethnic roles which are not stereotypes, and the solution of improving that with a combination of more roles which would be appropriate (and not distracting, like Benedict Cumberbatch playing Nelson Mandela or Idris Elba playing Oliver Cromwell) and race-blind casting where it doesn't even matter seems already to be working, yet at the exact same time the opposite of raceblind casting, where the actor should match exactly, or as near as possible, to the role, seems increasingly popular.
    There's been controversy down in Chichester where a black actor has been cast as a Nazi officer in a coming production of The Sound of Music. The Von Trapp children appear to be various ethnicities.
    What’s the world coming to when we can’t insist on Aryans playing Nazis ?
  • WestieWestie Posts: 426
    edited June 2023
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    .

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ross not keen on drag Queen story time

    @Douglas4Moray
    It’s totally inappropriate to hold a show like this for kids under the age of six.

    Story time for babies and young kids shouldn’t focus on gender or sexual identity.

    That is common sense and on behalf of constituents who’ve contacted me, I’ve raised this with the council.
    https://twitter.com/Douglas4Moray/status/1666006173932290048?s=20

    Is Roaster Ross going to get outraged by pantomimes?
    His argument seems to be pantomime dames don't push gender ideology
    I don't think Drag Queen Story Hour does either. This is just Moray copying US nonsense.
    'Encouraging children to develop a love of reading through imaginative story time, while promoting inclusion, diversity and acceptance...' Now nobody wants intolerance but 6 and under is rather young to be discussing Trans
    We teach kinds younger than that that there are different sexes. Is that wrong too?
    Well there are, that is a biological fact
    And there are transgender people. That is a sociological fact.
    Only through surgery and even with that and hormones treatment trans cyclists are no longer allowed to compete in female races as even with hormone suppression they still have an advantage over female cyclists
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/65718748
    No, transgender people are transgender even without undergoing surgery.

    Maybe if you'd been taught this stuff at a younger age you'd be a little more clued in to the facts.
    So you want to teach 6 year olds they are transgender? No wonder you on the left are out of touch!
    You're confusing being taught that you are something, with being taught about other people. No wonder the Tories are out of touch with humanity.
    It is not appropriate for 6 year olds or even older primary school children. It should be a secondary school issue only
    Bollocks.

    I literally head the same arguments made about not exposing kids to gay ideology when Section 28 was a thing.

    My then 4 year old only had one question about attending a same sex wedding.

    'Which one of you throws the bouquet, and can you make sure my dad catches it?'
    I have a 5 year old and it's not appropriate to discuss sexual intercourse at that age.
    Your five year old presumably knows that there are men and women. They don't need to hear about intercourse to have an understanding of that fact. They don't need to know about penetration to understand that some couples are different genders and some couples are the same gender. They don't need to know what adults do with their genitals to know that sometimes people are born as one gender but prefer to live as another.

    You don't need to deliver all the yucky truth about everything all at once.
    Personally I wouldn't allow any sex education or discussion of gender identity in schools until pupils are 11 or over and have reached puberty
    Wait until kids have hit puberty before discussing puberty?

    Talk about waiting until the horse has bolted before closing the door.
    Unless you are a paedophile kids shoudn't be engaging in or discussing sex until they have reached puberty absolutely
    Kids absolutely shouldn't be engaging in sex until they are young adults.

    They should however be learning about it, at appropriate levels, before their hormones go wild rather than afterwards.
    NO they should not. Absolutely not. They should only start to learn about sex, only at an appropriate level, from age 11 and only in more detail from 16, the age of consent
    Okay.

    So, when my eldest daughter was ten, one of her schoolfriends came to visit. She was the same age.

    She (the schoolfriend) was extremely inappropriate towards me, to the point where I immediately went to get my wife and asked her to stay near me for the duration of this girl's visit, so she (the schoolfriend) never got to see me alone. This successfully dissuaded her from doing it any more (other than a few comments that got our eyebrows raising).

    Should her parents have spoken to her about sex and what was and was not appropriate? I thought they should; she'd obviously picked up what she had from conversations with other children and what appeared to be early hormones. Personally, I thought she was going to be very vulnerable to any adult with paedophilic tendencies.

    I take it you disagree?
    Clearly an illustration of too much sexualisation of young people in our culture generally, when we didn't have as much sex in the media and more traditional Christian family values it was less of an issue
    This particular event happened twenty years ago.

    Kids have always talked between each other about sex. Discussions on that happened when I was a child in the Seventies, and this particular event happened twenty years ago.

    Sexual abuse of children was more prevalent in the Seventies, Sixties, and Fifties - it was just brushed under the carpet and not discussed. Less sex in the media, more Christian family values, and more children getting abused and raped.

    People just preferred to go into denial. That same tendency is visible in some today.
    Is there any evidence there was more paedophilia in the fifties? I highly doubt it, we also had lower divorce rates, higher marriage rates and a birthrate above replacement level
    There certainly was in boarding schools.
    And that was to some extent enabled by children’s ignorance, and the desire if those in authority (which you seem to have inherited) to brush the whole matter under the carpet.
    No, it was enabled by insufficient safeguarding policies and procedures like now in who is hired and monitored and lack of background checks
    It was enabled because the children had no idea what was happening to them in too many cases.

    Because they were lectured not to speak to the strangers. Not to Mr Master in the dorm.
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    .

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ross not keen on drag Queen story time

    @Douglas4Moray
    It’s totally inappropriate to hold a show like this for kids under the age of six.

    Story time for babies and young kids shouldn’t focus on gender or sexual identity.

    That is common sense and on behalf of constituents who’ve contacted me, I’ve raised this with the council.
    https://twitter.com/Douglas4Moray/status/1666006173932290048?s=20

    Is Roaster Ross going to get outraged by pantomimes?
    His argument seems to be pantomime dames don't push gender ideology
    I don't think Drag Queen Story Hour does either. This is just Moray copying US nonsense.
    'Encouraging children to develop a love of reading through imaginative story time, while promoting inclusion, diversity and acceptance...' Now nobody wants intolerance but 6 and under is rather young to be discussing Trans
    We teach kinds younger than that that there are different sexes. Is that wrong too?
    Well there are, that is a biological fact
    And there are transgender people. That is a sociological fact.
    Only through surgery and even with that and hormones treatment trans cyclists are no longer allowed to compete in female races as even with hormone suppression they still have an advantage over female cyclists
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/65718748
    No, transgender people are transgender even without undergoing surgery.

    Maybe if you'd been taught this stuff at a younger age you'd be a little more clued in to the facts.
    So you want to teach 6 year olds they are transgender? No wonder you on the left are out of touch!
    You're confusing being taught that you are something, with being taught about other people. No wonder the Tories are out of touch with humanity.
    It is not appropriate for 6 year olds or even older primary school children. It should be a secondary school issue only
    Bollocks.

    I literally head the same arguments made about not exposing kids to gay ideology when Section 28 was a thing.

    My then 4 year old only had one question about attending a same sex wedding.

    'Which one of you throws the bouquet, and can you make sure my dad catches it?'
    I have a 5 year old and it's not appropriate to discuss sexual intercourse at that age.
    Your five year old presumably knows that there are men and women. They don't need to hear about intercourse to have an understanding of that fact. They don't need to know about penetration to understand that some couples are different genders and some couples are the same gender. They don't need to know what adults do with their genitals to know that sometimes people are born as one gender but prefer to live as another.

    You don't need to deliver all the yucky truth about everything all at once.
    Personally I wouldn't allow any sex education or discussion of gender identity in schools until pupils are 11 or over and have reached puberty
    Wait until kids have hit puberty before discussing puberty?

    Talk about waiting until the horse has bolted before closing the door.
    Unless you are a paedophile kids shoudn't be engaging in or discussing sex until they have reached puberty absolutely
    Kids absolutely shouldn't be engaging in sex until they are young adults.

    They should however be learning about it, at appropriate levels, before their hormones go wild rather than afterwards.
    NO they should not. Absolutely not. They should only start to learn about sex, only at an appropriate level, from age 11 and only in more detail from 16, the age of consent
    Okay.

    So, when my eldest daughter was ten, one of her schoolfriends came to visit. She was the same age.

    She (the schoolfriend) was extremely inappropriate towards me, to the point where I immediately went to get my wife and asked her to stay near me for the duration of this girl's visit, so she (the schoolfriend) never got to see me alone. This successfully dissuaded her from doing it any more (other than a few comments that got our eyebrows raising).

    Should her parents have spoken to her about sex and what was and was not appropriate? I thought they should; she'd obviously picked up what she had from conversations with other children and what appeared to be early hormones. Personally, I thought she was going to be very vulnerable to any adult with paedophilic tendencies.

    I take it you disagree?
    Clearly an illustration of too much sexualisation of young people in our culture generally, when we didn't have as much sex in the media and more traditional Christian family values it was less of an issue
    This particular event happened twenty years ago.

    Kids have always talked between each other about sex. Discussions on that happened when I was a child in the Seventies, and this particular event happened twenty years ago.

    Sexual abuse of children was more prevalent in the Seventies, Sixties, and Fifties - it was just brushed under the carpet and not discussed. Less sex in the media, more Christian family values, and more children getting abused and raped.

    People just preferred to go into denial. That same tendency is visible in some today.
    Is there any evidence there was more paedophilia in the fifties? I highly doubt it, we also had lower divorce rates, higher marriage rates and a birthrate above replacement level
    There certainly was in boarding schools.
    And that was to some extent enabled by children’s ignorance, and the desire if those in authority (which you seem to have inherited) to brush the whole matter under the carpet.
    No, it was enabled by insufficient safeguarding policies and procedures like now in who is hired and monitored and lack of background checks
    It was enabled because the children had no idea what was happening to them in too many cases.

    Because they were lectured not to speak to the strangers. Not to Mr Master in the dorm.
    They still aren't, respect for authority is important.

    However safeguarding and background and criminal records checks in boarding schools now are far more rigorous, as indeed they are in schools generally and the Scouts etc than they were in the 1970s
    Except in Ampleforth.

    And OFSTED.
    "Far more rigorous"? Recently when bored I read a recent back issue of the old boys' zine for the boarding school I went to - I don't subscribe - and there was an article by a housemaster who was blithely explaining how it works wonders to wear an expensive shirt and haircut when you're showing one of those inspector johnnies around.

    Then there was a policy on bullying which started off by saying there are 3 kinds of bullying - of teachers by teachers, teachers by boys, and boys by teachers. (FWIR they left out bullying by teachers of boys.) That's how "seriously" they take bullying.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177

    Eabhal said:

    It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that pregnant teenagers are pregnant because they and/or their partners don't know how babies are made. Perhaps this is true in a few edge cases where people may have mental development issues. Many girls see pregnancy as a way of leaving home and being given the wherewithal to live. Assuming a decline in teenage motherhood is desirable (rather than welcoming it as a way to address population decline), I really don't think it can be addressed by sex education at a younger age.

    And yet, that appears to be exactly what has happened.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/bulletins/conceptionstatistics/2021#:~:text=The conception rate for women,women of the same age.
    That's such an extraordinary change I would assume something else is going on. Social media?
    At a guess, it's linked to the (effective) raising of the school leaving age from 16 to 18, which Gordon Brown legislated for and came into force in the early years of the Cameron government. (Technically, you don't have to stay in school, but the overwhelming majority do.)
    I think there is something more than that happening though. Look at the rates of teetotalism in younger people. There has been a remarkable increase in the numbers of students who don't drink. I have no idea why this is but there is a definite trend towards shunning the vices at the moment amongst younger people
    They see alcohol as just like smoking.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    rcs1000 said:

    I really do wonder what Prigozhin's endgame is:


    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ross not keen on drag Queen story time

    @Douglas4Moray
    It’s totally inappropriate to hold a show like this for kids under the age of six.

    Story time for babies and young kids shouldn’t focus on gender or sexual identity.

    That is common sense and on behalf of constituents who’ve contacted me, I’ve raised this with the council.
    https://twitter.com/Douglas4Moray/status/1666006173932290048?s=20

    Does it focus on gender or sexual identity? If not, I doubt most infants would care or even notice the presenter is in drag.
    Wait till he hears about pantomime.
    He’s a member of the Scottish Parliament. There’s nothing he doesn’t know about pantomime.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    Nigelb said:

    SandraMc said:

    kle4 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    I'll try for a distraction - here's yet another story about actors not understanding the concept of acting

    Michael Sheen: ‘I find it very hard to accept actors playing Welsh characters when they aren’t...'
    Has he taken the concept of authentic casting to a whole new level? Ahead of his latest BBC drama Best Interests, the star explains all

    https://t.co/VqYDu701zh

    @emmarevell: This attitude is so exhausting. Acting by it's very definition is pretending to be something or someone you are not

    @JonHollis9: Particularly given Michael Sheen has played a vampire, a werewolf, an angel, Jesus, Brian Clough, David Frost and Tony Blair (multiple times).

    Imagine the state of his career if he were only allowed to play middle aged Welsh men.

    I remember reading Maureen Lipman saying something like "If this nonsense carries on, you'll only be allowed to play yourself".
    'Authenticity' in acting is one of those concepts where I don't even understand why and how it arose as a supposedly progressive idea when pushed to the extremes we now see.

    I get concerns about apparent lack of ethnic roles which are not stereotypes, and the solution of improving that with a combination of more roles which would be appropriate (and not distracting, like Benedict Cumberbatch playing Nelson Mandela or Idris Elba playing Oliver Cromwell) and race-blind casting where it doesn't even matter seems already to be working, yet at the exact same time the opposite of raceblind casting, where the actor should match exactly, or as near as possible, to the role, seems increasingly popular.
    There's been controversy down in Chichester where a black actor has been cast as a Nazi officer in a coming production of The Sound of Music. The Von Trapp children appear to be various ethnicities.
    What’s the world coming to when we can’t insist on Aryans playing Nazis ?
    Hmmm - only people from the Indian subcontinent can play Nazis? It’s an idea I suppose.

    Now I’m imagining a Bollywood version of Downfall….
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147

    Nigelb said:

    SandraMc said:

    kle4 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    I'll try for a distraction - here's yet another story about actors not understanding the concept of acting

    Michael Sheen: ‘I find it very hard to accept actors playing Welsh characters when they aren’t...'
    Has he taken the concept of authentic casting to a whole new level? Ahead of his latest BBC drama Best Interests, the star explains all

    https://t.co/VqYDu701zh

    @emmarevell: This attitude is so exhausting. Acting by it's very definition is pretending to be something or someone you are not

    @JonHollis9: Particularly given Michael Sheen has played a vampire, a werewolf, an angel, Jesus, Brian Clough, David Frost and Tony Blair (multiple times).

    Imagine the state of his career if he were only allowed to play middle aged Welsh men.

    I remember reading Maureen Lipman saying something like "If this nonsense carries on, you'll only be allowed to play yourself".
    'Authenticity' in acting is one of those concepts where I don't even understand why and how it arose as a supposedly progressive idea when pushed to the extremes we now see.

    I get concerns about apparent lack of ethnic roles which are not stereotypes, and the solution of improving that with a combination of more roles which would be appropriate (and not distracting, like Benedict Cumberbatch playing Nelson Mandela or Idris Elba playing Oliver Cromwell) and race-blind casting where it doesn't even matter seems already to be working, yet at the exact same time the opposite of raceblind casting, where the actor should match exactly, or as near as possible, to the role, seems increasingly popular.
    There's been controversy down in Chichester where a black actor has been cast as a Nazi officer in a coming production of The Sound of Music. The Von Trapp children appear to be various ethnicities.
    What’s the world coming to when we can’t insist on Aryans playing Nazis ?
    Hmmm - only people from the Indian subcontinent can play Nazis? It’s an idea I suppose.

    Now I’m imagining a Bollywood version of Downfall….
    Ahem.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Legion
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,477
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    I'll try for a distraction - here's yet another story about actors not understanding the concept of acting

    Michael Sheen: ‘I find it very hard to accept actors playing Welsh characters when they aren’t...'
    Has he taken the concept of authentic casting to a whole new level? Ahead of his latest BBC drama Best Interests, the star explains all

    https://t.co/VqYDu701zh

    @emmarevell: This attitude is so exhausting. Acting by it's very definition is pretending to be something or someone you are not

    @JonHollis9: Particularly given Michael Sheen has played a vampire, a werewolf, an angel, Jesus, Brian Clough, David Frost and Tony Blair (multiple times).

    Imagine the state of his career if he were only allowed to play middle aged Welsh men.

    I remember reading Maureen Lipman saying something like "If this nonsense carries on, you'll only be allowed to play yourself".
    Plenty of actors (Michael Caine, for instance) had great careers doing just that.
    He even made his name as a Geordie with a cockney accent in "Get Carter".

    I thought it was as Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead, a distinctly upper class officer, in Zulu.
  • WestieWestie Posts: 426

    Westie said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    “The non-human intelligence phenomenon is real. We are not alone,” Grey said. “Retrievals of this kind are not limited to the United States. This is a global phenomenon, and yet a global solution continues to elude us.”

    😎😶

    And on we rumble, endless attention seeking whistle blowers with no evidence. Keep believing, Leon, keep believing.
    My point has always been that we are witnessing increasingly inexplicable behaviour from American officials - military, political, intel - which CAN only be explained if 1 you accept they are all going mad, 2 there is some incredibly massive psyops operation (who? When? Why?), or 3 they genuinely have evidence of non-human intelligence

    Any of these explanations is surpassingly
    interesting. They all remain possible. Recent evidence points more towards explanation 3
    My theory? Satellite tv. Endless channels need filling. Endless ghost hunting shows seeing ‘orbs’, commonly known as specks of dust.
    Endless Bigfoot programmes- is this the episode where they finally find Bigfoot? Clearly not as it would have been headline news.
    There is a huge market for this kind of stuff, and grifters gotta grift.
    I saw a series of those programmes recently, and they were weirdly compelling, mostly to spot the tropes and formulas that became apparent very quickly. Like the one guy who is the 'skeptic' whose job is to go 'Well, I don't know it could have been [insert normal explanation], but it is weird', to 'experts' who are entirely self proclaimed without even an irrelevant PhD or job as the caterer at the FBI to lend authority.

    All narrated by someone who also does serious documentaries (or sounds like someone who does)

    I don't think we've beaten Paul Merton's description of Erich von Daniken as being the chap where the answer was always No to his quesitons.

    "Could this be a 14th century flying saucer?"
    "No"
    "Were the Aztecs the first astronauts?"
    "No"

    (These may be actual Danikenite claims)
    Erich von Daniken is no fool.

    To throw something in to the discussion:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism
    From von Daniken's Wikipedia page:

    At the age of 19, he was given a four-month suspended sentence for theft.[6] He left the school and was apprenticed to a Swiss hotelier for a time,[7] before moving to Egypt. In December 1964, von Däniken wrote Hatten unsere Vorfahren Besuch aus dem Weltraum? ("Were Our Ancestors Visited from Space?") for the German-Canadian periodical Der Nordwesten.[8] While in Egypt, he was involved in a jewelry deal which resulted in a nine-month conviction for fraud and embezzlement upon his return to Switzerland.[6]

    Following his release, von Däniken became a manager of the Hotel Rosenhügel in Davos, Switzerland, during which time he wrote Chariots of the Gods? (German: Erinnerungen an die Zukunft, literally "Memories of the Future"), working on the manuscript late at night after the hotel's guests had retired.[9] The draft of the book was turned down by several publishers. Econ Verlag (now part of Ullstein Verlag) was willing to publish the book after a complete reworking by a professional author, Utz Utermann, who used the pseudonym of Wilhelm Roggersdorf. Utermann was a former editor of the Nazi Party's newspaper Völkischer Beobachter and had been a Nazi bestselling author.[10] The re-write of Chariots of the Gods? was accepted for publication early in 1967, but not printed until March 1968.[9]
    I knew about the hotel in Davos but not about Utermann and his background. What were the bestsellers that he wrote during the Nazi period? Link 10 from the Wikipedia article is broken.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779

    kle4 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    I'll try for a distraction - here's yet another story about actors not understanding the concept of acting

    Michael Sheen: ‘I find it very hard to accept actors playing Welsh characters when they aren’t...'
    Has he taken the concept of authentic casting to a whole new level? Ahead of his latest BBC drama Best Interests, the star explains all

    https://t.co/VqYDu701zh

    @emmarevell: This attitude is so exhausting. Acting by it's very definition is pretending to be something or someone you are not

    @JonHollis9: Particularly given Michael Sheen has played a vampire, a werewolf, an angel, Jesus, Brian Clough, David Frost and Tony Blair (multiple times).

    Imagine the state of his career if he were only allowed to play middle aged Welsh men.

    I remember reading Maureen Lipman saying something like "If this nonsense carries on, you'll only be allowed to play yourself".
    'Authenticity' in acting is one of those concepts where I don't even understand why and how it arose as a supposedly progressive idea when pushed to the extremes we now see.

    I get concerns about apparent lack of ethnic roles which are not stereotypes, and the solution of improving that with a combination of more roles which would be appropriate (and not distracting, like Benedict Cumberbatch playing Nelson Mandela or Idris Elba playing Oliver Cromwell) and race-blind casting where it doesn't even matter seems already to be working, yet at the exact same time the opposite of raceblind casting, where the actor should match exactly, or as near as possible, to the role, seems increasingly popular.
    Casting for the Tiger Woods biopic will be interesting. Good luck finding the 1/4 Thai 1/4 Chinese 1/4 Caucausian, 1/8 African American, 1/8 Native American actors for the auditions.
    Technology has the answer. Tiger Woods can play himself, suitable de-aged where necessary. If he dies before the picture is made - gentlemen, AI can rebuild him.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    “The non-human intelligence phenomenon is real. We are not alone,” Grey said. “Retrievals of this kind are not limited to the United States. This is a global phenomenon, and yet a global solution continues to elude us.”

    😎😶

    And on we rumble, endless attention seeking whistle blowers with no evidence. Keep believing, Leon, keep believing.
    My point has always been that we are witnessing increasingly inexplicable behaviour from American officials - military, political, intel - which CAN only be explained if 1 you accept they are all going mad, 2 there is some incredibly massive psyops operation (who? When? Why?), or 3 they genuinely have evidence of non-human intelligence

    Any of these explanations is surpassingly
    interesting. They all remain possible. Recent evidence points more towards explanation 3
    My theory? Satellite tv. Endless channels need filling. Endless ghost hunting shows seeing ‘orbs’, commonly known as specks of dust.
    Endless Bigfoot programmes- is this the episode where they finally find Bigfoot? Clearly not as it would have been headline news.
    There is a huge market for this kind of stuff, and grifters gotta grift.
    Grifters?


    The journalist who broke this story is an extremely senior New York Times veteran. These people are not loons. Nor do they need the money. They have reputations


    “To be clear -- the Washington Post did not pass on our UAP story. Leslie and I took it to the Debrief because we were under growing pressure to publish it very quickly. The Post needed more time and we couldn't wait. #UAP #UFOs #flyingsaucers #ET #aliens #extraterrestrials”

    https://twitter.com/ralphblu/status/1665809626200264705?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    The whistle blowers. The next generation Bob Lazars.
    No evidence anywhere. The ‘best’ evidence of UAPs totally underwhelming. Remember the balloon flap of recent months? What happened to that?
    You’re the twit who totally denied lab leak until about 3 weeks ago.

    You can dismiss aliens or ET as an explanation - that’s entirely plausible - but then you have to explain the behaviour by large numbers of very senior American generals, spies, politicians, journalists, senators, even presidents

    It’s not just “grifters grifting” FFS. That’s imbecilic
    I supose my problem with this is that one would expect that, having had high quality cameras being carried by practially every single person in the Western world and the majority in the whole world for the last 10-15 years, we would have seen a massive upsurge by many orders of magnitude in the number of recorded, photographed sitings of alien craft compared to, say, 30 years ago. And yet we do not. We get the same rare blurry images from the public and a few debatable images from the military or from civilain aviation but that explosion of confirmable sitings just hasn't happened.

    So unless the aliens suddeny decided to bugger off just at the moment we were developing the ability for teh man in the treet to record them, I think it is just so much hokum.

    I am not in any way intellectualy opposed to the idea of aliens. The idea that there are not millions of civilisations out there seems inconceivable to me. The idea they are managing to float around Earth with exactly the same degree of secrecy as they did 30 or 50 years ago seems.. unlikely.
    I agree. The lack of multiple photos from excellent phone cameras is a major pointer AGAINST “option 3”

    But then we are left with option 2: the USG is contriving some massive psyops…. But there are serious problems with that, too

    It’s a delicious mystery
    Given the extent to which phone pictures are "enhanced" by AI, there is a fourth option.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    "Here’s how much you need squirrelled away today to fund a comfortable retirement at 68

    £37,000 a year, the amount needed to retire on 'comfortably', takes diligent effort"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/financial-planning/annual-income-retirement-fund-pension-savings-37000/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    SandraMc said:

    kle4 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    I'll try for a distraction - here's yet another story about actors not understanding the concept of acting

    Michael Sheen: ‘I find it very hard to accept actors playing Welsh characters when they aren’t...'
    Has he taken the concept of authentic casting to a whole new level? Ahead of his latest BBC drama Best Interests, the star explains all

    https://t.co/VqYDu701zh

    @emmarevell: This attitude is so exhausting. Acting by it's very definition is pretending to be something or someone you are not

    @JonHollis9: Particularly given Michael Sheen has played a vampire, a werewolf, an angel, Jesus, Brian Clough, David Frost and Tony Blair (multiple times).

    Imagine the state of his career if he were only allowed to play middle aged Welsh men.

    I remember reading Maureen Lipman saying something like "If this nonsense carries on, you'll only be allowed to play yourself".
    'Authenticity' in acting is one of those concepts where I don't even understand why and how it arose as a supposedly progressive idea when pushed to the extremes we now see.

    I get concerns about apparent lack of ethnic roles which are not stereotypes, and the solution of improving that with a combination of more roles which would be appropriate (and not distracting, like Benedict Cumberbatch playing Nelson Mandela or Idris Elba playing Oliver Cromwell) and race-blind casting where it doesn't even matter seems already to be working, yet at the exact same time the opposite of raceblind casting, where the actor should match exactly, or as near as possible, to the role, seems increasingly popular.
    There's been controversy down in Chichester where a black actor has been cast as a Nazi officer in a coming production of The Sound of Music. The Von Trapp children appear to be various ethnicities.
    What’s the world coming to when we can’t insist on Aryans playing Nazis ?
    Hmmm - only people from the Indian subcontinent can play Nazis? It’s an idea I suppose.

    Now I’m imagining a Bollywood version of Downfall….
    Ahem.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Legion
    Yes, I knew of them. They weren’t very Nazi, really.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    SandraMc said:

    kle4 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    I'll try for a distraction - here's yet another story about actors not understanding the concept of acting

    Michael Sheen: ‘I find it very hard to accept actors playing Welsh characters when they aren’t...'
    Has he taken the concept of authentic casting to a whole new level? Ahead of his latest BBC drama Best Interests, the star explains all

    https://t.co/VqYDu701zh

    @emmarevell: This attitude is so exhausting. Acting by it's very definition is pretending to be something or someone you are not

    @JonHollis9: Particularly given Michael Sheen has played a vampire, a werewolf, an angel, Jesus, Brian Clough, David Frost and Tony Blair (multiple times).

    Imagine the state of his career if he were only allowed to play middle aged Welsh men.

    I remember reading Maureen Lipman saying something like "If this nonsense carries on, you'll only be allowed to play yourself".
    'Authenticity' in acting is one of those concepts where I don't even understand why and how it arose as a supposedly progressive idea when pushed to the extremes we now see.

    I get concerns about apparent lack of ethnic roles which are not stereotypes, and the solution of improving that with a combination of more roles which would be appropriate (and not distracting, like Benedict Cumberbatch playing Nelson Mandela or Idris Elba playing Oliver Cromwell) and race-blind casting where it doesn't even matter seems already to be working, yet at the exact same time the opposite of raceblind casting, where the actor should match exactly, or as near as possible, to the role, seems increasingly popular.
    There's been controversy down in Chichester where a black actor has been cast as a Nazi officer in a coming production of The Sound of Music. The Von Trapp children appear to be various ethnicities.
    What’s the world coming to when we can’t insist on Aryans playing Nazis ?
    Hmmm - only people from the Indian subcontinent can play Nazis? It’s an idea I suppose.

    Now I’m imagining a Bollywood version of Downfall….
    Ahem.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Legion
    Yes, I knew of them. They weren’t very Nazi, really.
    Apart from being in the SS...
  • CatMan said:

    Please unban @MrEd so we can hear some ludicrous explanation about how this is all a stich up and Biden has done far worse

    To be fair, Biden is not exactly smashing it out of the park when it comes to a head to head with Trump. Whatever you - and others - may think that Biden is a great President, he is not convincing a vast majority of the American public.
    What in your view is a "vast majority"?

    FDR 1936, LBJ 1964, RN 1972? Certainly by THAT measure, your point is spot on!
    Sorry hadn't hit send from earlier.

    RCP has Biden down vs Trump in a head to head and his approval rating at 40%.

    Even you @SeaShantyIrish2 cannot be saying that 40% is great for an incumbent.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,916
    Not much news about the Ukrainian offensive today, drowned out by the consequences of the dam destruction, but the Washington Post do have this:

    “Administration officials were encouraged by better-than-expected progress Monday, as Ukrainian units pushed through heavily mined areas to advance between five and 10 kilometers in some areas of the long front.”

    https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1666197378645327872
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    Charles Kennedy is trending on Twitter. Not sure why. Maybe something to do with Ian Blackford standing down in his old constituency.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032

    Eabhal said:

    It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that pregnant teenagers are pregnant because they and/or their partners don't know how babies are made. Perhaps this is true in a few edge cases where people may have mental development issues. Many girls see pregnancy as a way of leaving home and being given the wherewithal to live. Assuming a decline in teenage motherhood is desirable (rather than welcoming it as a way to address population decline), I really don't think it can be addressed by sex education at a younger age.

    And yet, that appears to be exactly what has happened.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/bulletins/conceptionstatistics/2021#:~:text=The conception rate for women,women of the same age.
    That's such an extraordinary change I would assume something else is going on. Social media?
    At a guess, it's linked to the (effective) raising of the school leaving age from 16 to 18, which Gordon Brown legislated for and came into force in the early years of the Cameron government. (Technically, you don't have to stay in school, but the overwhelming majority do.)
    I think there is something more than that happening though. Look at the rates of teetotalism in younger people. There has been a remarkable increase in the numbers of students who don't drink. I have no idea why this is but there is a definite trend towards shunning the vices at the moment amongst younger people
    They see alcohol as just like smoking.
    Illegal drugs are just so much cheaper if you want to clock out for a while. Economics is, sadly, no longer taught in Scottish schools so the next uptick in drug deaths after an extra 20p is put on a can of cider will come as a total surprise.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    Andy_JS said:

    "Here’s how much you need squirrelled away today to fund a comfortable retirement at 68

    £37,000 a year, the amount needed to retire on 'comfortably', takes diligent effort"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/financial-planning/annual-income-retirement-fund-pension-savings-37000/

    My wife’s plan is to win the lottery to pay for our retirement. She’s been practicing for 20 years now so she must be getting good.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,569

    It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that pregnant teenagers are pregnant because they and/or their partners don't know how babies are made. Perhaps this is true in a few edge cases where people may have mental development issues. Many girls see pregnancy as a way of leaving home and being given the wherewithal to live. Assuming a decline in teenage motherhood is desirable (rather than welcoming it as a way to address population decline), I really don't think it can be addressed by sex education at a younger age.

    It may seem that way to you, but the people who have gone out and seen what actually happens disagree.

    From a UNESCO review of the available literature;

    The paper concludes that sex education programmes that are based on a comprehensive curriculum can delay the onset of sexual activity among adolescents and young people, reduce the frequency of intercourse, reduce the frequency of unprotected sex, reduce the number of sexual partners, and increase condom and contraceptive use. Furthermore, sex education programmes do not increase sexual activity among adolescents and young people and generally result in increased knowledge about human sexuality.

    https://healtheducationresources.unesco.org/library/documents/impact-sex-education-sexual-behaviour-young-people

    As to why... one of the things that adolescents like is discovery and breaking taboos. It's why they are both profoundly annoying and surprisingly life-enhancing to teach. If adults aren't talking about sex, it increases the taboo factor which increases the thrill.

    It's what Scandinavians have got right. Talk about sex as a thing that happens in various forms. Domesticate it, so to speak. Seems to work in practice.
    Yes, it's interesting to compare Denmark when I grew up (the 60s/70s) with the UK now. The Danes had pretty much arrived at the same point that we have, viewing sex as something people enjoyed but not something you only did with one person in your whole life. But Britain is still much more prurient - people still get a kick out of talking about boobs and bums and willies and the nation is gripped by whether Philip Schofield did or didn't have sex with someone (yes, I know that there's an angle about possibly improper incentives, but I don't believe that's why people are interested).

    Danish doesn't even have sexual swearwords (though they've picked up 'fuck' from English) - if you want to insult someone you say "idiot" or the like, and swearing at someone with a body part just sounds peculiar, like saying "You ankle!"
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    SandraMc said:

    kle4 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    I'll try for a distraction - here's yet another story about actors not understanding the concept of acting

    Michael Sheen: ‘I find it very hard to accept actors playing Welsh characters when they aren’t...'
    Has he taken the concept of authentic casting to a whole new level? Ahead of his latest BBC drama Best Interests, the star explains all

    https://t.co/VqYDu701zh

    @emmarevell: This attitude is so exhausting. Acting by it's very definition is pretending to be something or someone you are not

    @JonHollis9: Particularly given Michael Sheen has played a vampire, a werewolf, an angel, Jesus, Brian Clough, David Frost and Tony Blair (multiple times).

    Imagine the state of his career if he were only allowed to play middle aged Welsh men.

    I remember reading Maureen Lipman saying something like "If this nonsense carries on, you'll only be allowed to play yourself".
    'Authenticity' in acting is one of those concepts where I don't even understand why and how it arose as a supposedly progressive idea when pushed to the extremes we now see.

    I get concerns about apparent lack of ethnic roles which are not stereotypes, and the solution of improving that with a combination of more roles which would be appropriate (and not distracting, like Benedict Cumberbatch playing Nelson Mandela or Idris Elba playing Oliver Cromwell) and race-blind casting where it doesn't even matter seems already to be working, yet at the exact same time the opposite of raceblind casting, where the actor should match exactly, or as near as possible, to the role, seems increasingly popular.
    There's been controversy down in Chichester where a black actor has been cast as a Nazi officer in a coming production of The Sound of Music. The Von Trapp children appear to be various ethnicities.
    What’s the world coming to when we can’t insist on Aryans playing Nazis ?
    Hmmm - only people from the Indian subcontinent can play Nazis? It’s an idea I suppose.

    Now I’m imagining a Bollywood version of Downfall….
    Ahem.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Legion
    Yes, I knew of them. They weren’t very Nazi, really.
    Apart from being in the SS...
    By the end of the war, they were conscripting all sorts into the SS. Quite a few didn’t want to fight for the Germans, and weren’t Nazis.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malgré-nous Etc
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    SandraMc said:

    kle4 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    I'll try for a distraction - here's yet another story about actors not understanding the concept of acting

    Michael Sheen: ‘I find it very hard to accept actors playing Welsh characters when they aren’t...'
    Has he taken the concept of authentic casting to a whole new level? Ahead of his latest BBC drama Best Interests, the star explains all

    https://t.co/VqYDu701zh

    @emmarevell: This attitude is so exhausting. Acting by it's very definition is pretending to be something or someone you are not

    @JonHollis9: Particularly given Michael Sheen has played a vampire, a werewolf, an angel, Jesus, Brian Clough, David Frost and Tony Blair (multiple times).

    Imagine the state of his career if he were only allowed to play middle aged Welsh men.

    I remember reading Maureen Lipman saying something like "If this nonsense carries on, you'll only be allowed to play yourself".
    'Authenticity' in acting is one of those concepts where I don't even understand why and how it arose as a supposedly progressive idea when pushed to the extremes we now see.

    I get concerns about apparent lack of ethnic roles which are not stereotypes, and the solution of improving that with a combination of more roles which would be appropriate (and not distracting, like Benedict Cumberbatch playing Nelson Mandela or Idris Elba playing Oliver Cromwell) and race-blind casting where it doesn't even matter seems already to be working, yet at the exact same time the opposite of raceblind casting, where the actor should match exactly, or as near as possible, to the role, seems increasingly popular.
    There's been controversy down in Chichester where a black actor has been cast as a Nazi officer in a coming production of The Sound of Music. The Von Trapp children appear to be various ethnicities.
    What’s the world coming to when we can’t insist on Aryans playing Nazis ?
    Hmmm - only people from the Indian subcontinent can play Nazis? It’s an idea I suppose.

    Now I’m imagining a Bollywood version of Downfall….
    Ahem.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Legion
    Yes, I knew of them. They weren’t very Nazi, really.
    Apart from being in the SS...
    By the end of the war, they were conscripting all sorts into the SS. Quite a few didn’t want to fight for the Germans, and weren’t Nazis.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malgré-nous Etc
    Wasn't there supposed to be some Chinese or Korean chap who got forcibly conscripted into the Soviet army and then the Nazi army over the course of the war?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,424

    It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that pregnant teenagers are pregnant because they and/or their partners don't know how babies are made. Perhaps this is true in a few edge cases where people may have mental development issues. Many girls see pregnancy as a way of leaving home and being given the wherewithal to live. Assuming a decline in teenage motherhood is desirable (rather than welcoming it as a way to address population decline), I really don't think it can be addressed by sex education at a younger age.

    It may seem that way to you, but the people who have gone out and seen what actually happens disagree.

    From a UNESCO review of the available literature;

    The paper concludes that sex education programmes that are based on a comprehensive curriculum can delay the onset of sexual activity among adolescents and young people, reduce the frequency of intercourse, reduce the frequency of unprotected sex, reduce the number of sexual partners, and increase condom and contraceptive use. Furthermore, sex education programmes do not increase sexual activity among adolescents and young people and generally result in increased knowledge about human sexuality.

    https://healtheducationresources.unesco.org/library/documents/impact-sex-education-sexual-behaviour-young-people

    As to why... one of the things that adolescents like is discovery and breaking taboos. It's why they are both profoundly annoying and surprisingly life-enhancing to teach. If adults aren't talking about sex, it increases the taboo factor which increases the thrill.

    It's what Scandinavians have got right. Talk about sex as a thing that happens in various forms. Domesticate it, so to speak. Seems to work in practice.
    Yes, it's interesting to compare Denmark when I grew up (the 60s/70s) with the UK now. The Danes had pretty much arrived at the same point that we have, viewing sex as something people enjoyed but not something you only did with one person in your whole life. But Britain is still much more prurient - people still get a kick out of talking about boobs and bums and willies and the nation is gripped by whether Philip Schofield did or didn't have sex with someone (yes, I know that there's an angle about possibly improper incentives, but I don't believe that's why people are interested).

    Danish doesn't even have sexual swearwords (though they've picked up 'fuck' from English) - if you want to insult someone you say "idiot" or the like, and swearing at someone with a body part just sounds peculiar, like saying "You ankle!"
    French Canadians in Quebec swear using words describing church items

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Câlisse
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156

    Nigelb said:

    SandraMc said:

    kle4 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    I'll try for a distraction - here's yet another story about actors not understanding the concept of acting

    Michael Sheen: ‘I find it very hard to accept actors playing Welsh characters when they aren’t...'
    Has he taken the concept of authentic casting to a whole new level? Ahead of his latest BBC drama Best Interests, the star explains all

    https://t.co/VqYDu701zh

    @emmarevell: This attitude is so exhausting. Acting by it's very definition is pretending to be something or someone you are not

    @JonHollis9: Particularly given Michael Sheen has played a vampire, a werewolf, an angel, Jesus, Brian Clough, David Frost and Tony Blair (multiple times).

    Imagine the state of his career if he were only allowed to play middle aged Welsh men.

    I remember reading Maureen Lipman saying something like "If this nonsense carries on, you'll only be allowed to play yourself".
    'Authenticity' in acting is one of those concepts where I don't even understand why and how it arose as a supposedly progressive idea when pushed to the extremes we now see.

    I get concerns about apparent lack of ethnic roles which are not stereotypes, and the solution of improving that with a combination of more roles which would be appropriate (and not distracting, like Benedict Cumberbatch playing Nelson Mandela or Idris Elba playing Oliver Cromwell) and race-blind casting where it doesn't even matter seems already to be working, yet at the exact same time the opposite of raceblind casting, where the actor should match exactly, or as near as possible, to the role, seems increasingly popular.
    There's been controversy down in Chichester where a black actor has been cast as a Nazi officer in a coming production of The Sound of Music. The Von Trapp children appear to be various ethnicities.
    What’s the world coming to when we can’t insist on Aryans playing Nazis ?
    Hmmm - only people from the Indian subcontinent can play Nazis? It’s an idea I suppose.

    Now I’m imagining a Bollywood version of Downfall….
    Sunil von Prasannan :lol:
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    edited June 2023
    O/T

    For fans of 80s music, the Human League are still performing live (with original members from 1981). This is a video of them in San Francisco just a few days ago.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3vr4DvA-1E
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoyWb6kZKns
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    SandraMc said:

    kle4 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    I'll try for a distraction - here's yet another story about actors not understanding the concept of acting

    Michael Sheen: ‘I find it very hard to accept actors playing Welsh characters when they aren’t...'
    Has he taken the concept of authentic casting to a whole new level? Ahead of his latest BBC drama Best Interests, the star explains all

    https://t.co/VqYDu701zh

    @emmarevell: This attitude is so exhausting. Acting by it's very definition is pretending to be something or someone you are not

    @JonHollis9: Particularly given Michael Sheen has played a vampire, a werewolf, an angel, Jesus, Brian Clough, David Frost and Tony Blair (multiple times).

    Imagine the state of his career if he were only allowed to play middle aged Welsh men.

    I remember reading Maureen Lipman saying something like "If this nonsense carries on, you'll only be allowed to play yourself".
    'Authenticity' in acting is one of those concepts where I don't even understand why and how it arose as a supposedly progressive idea when pushed to the extremes we now see.

    I get concerns about apparent lack of ethnic roles which are not stereotypes, and the solution of improving that with a combination of more roles which would be appropriate (and not distracting, like Benedict Cumberbatch playing Nelson Mandela or Idris Elba playing Oliver Cromwell) and race-blind casting where it doesn't even matter seems already to be working, yet at the exact same time the opposite of raceblind casting, where the actor should match exactly, or as near as possible, to the role, seems increasingly popular.
    There's been controversy down in Chichester where a black actor has been cast as a Nazi officer in a coming production of The Sound of Music. The Von Trapp children appear to be various ethnicities.
    What’s the world coming to when we can’t insist on Aryans playing Nazis ?
    Hmmm - only people from the Indian subcontinent can play Nazis? It’s an idea I suppose.

    Now I’m imagining a Bollywood version of Downfall….
    Ahem.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Legion
    Yes, I knew of them. They weren’t very Nazi, really.
    Apart from being in the SS...
    By the end of the war, they were conscripting all sorts into the SS. Quite a few didn’t want to fight for the Germans, and weren’t Nazis.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malgré-nous Etc
    Wasn't there supposed to be some Chinese or Korean chap who got forcibly conscripted into the Soviet army and then the Nazi army over the course of the war?
    Korean chap. He was conscripted into the Japanese Army, was captured during the border clashes with the Soviets in 1939, conscripted into the Red Army, then captured by the Nazis during Barbarossa (1941).
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,424

    Nigelb said:

    SandraMc said:

    kle4 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    I'll try for a distraction - here's yet another story about actors not understanding the concept of acting

    Michael Sheen: ‘I find it very hard to accept actors playing Welsh characters when they aren’t...'
    Has he taken the concept of authentic casting to a whole new level? Ahead of his latest BBC drama Best Interests, the star explains all

    https://t.co/VqYDu701zh

    @emmarevell: This attitude is so exhausting. Acting by it's very definition is pretending to be something or someone you are not

    @JonHollis9: Particularly given Michael Sheen has played a vampire, a werewolf, an angel, Jesus, Brian Clough, David Frost and Tony Blair (multiple times).

    Imagine the state of his career if he were only allowed to play middle aged Welsh men.

    I remember reading Maureen Lipman saying something like "If this nonsense carries on, you'll only be allowed to play yourself".
    'Authenticity' in acting is one of those concepts where I don't even understand why and how it arose as a supposedly progressive idea when pushed to the extremes we now see.

    I get concerns about apparent lack of ethnic roles which are not stereotypes, and the solution of improving that with a combination of more roles which would be appropriate (and not distracting, like Benedict Cumberbatch playing Nelson Mandela or Idris Elba playing Oliver Cromwell) and race-blind casting where it doesn't even matter seems already to be working, yet at the exact same time the opposite of raceblind casting, where the actor should match exactly, or as near as possible, to the role, seems increasingly popular.
    There's been controversy down in Chichester where a black actor has been cast as a Nazi officer in a coming production of The Sound of Music. The Von Trapp children appear to be various ethnicities.
    What’s the world coming to when we can’t insist on Aryans playing Nazis ?
    Hmmm - only people from the Indian subcontinent can play Nazis? It’s an idea I suppose.

    Now I’m imagining a Bollywood version of Downfall….
    Sunil von Prasannan :lol:
    You are as qualified to add "von" to your name as Carl Von Clausewitz was.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,481
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    SandraMc said:

    kle4 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    I'll try for a distraction - here's yet another story about actors not understanding the concept of acting

    Michael Sheen: ‘I find it very hard to accept actors playing Welsh characters when they aren’t...'
    Has he taken the concept of authentic casting to a whole new level? Ahead of his latest BBC drama Best Interests, the star explains all

    https://t.co/VqYDu701zh

    @emmarevell: This attitude is so exhausting. Acting by it's very definition is pretending to be something or someone you are not

    @JonHollis9: Particularly given Michael Sheen has played a vampire, a werewolf, an angel, Jesus, Brian Clough, David Frost and Tony Blair (multiple times).

    Imagine the state of his career if he were only allowed to play middle aged Welsh men.

    I remember reading Maureen Lipman saying something like "If this nonsense carries on, you'll only be allowed to play yourself".
    'Authenticity' in acting is one of those concepts where I don't even understand why and how it arose as a supposedly progressive idea when pushed to the extremes we now see.

    I get concerns about apparent lack of ethnic roles which are not stereotypes, and the solution of improving that with a combination of more roles which would be appropriate (and not distracting, like Benedict Cumberbatch playing Nelson Mandela or Idris Elba playing Oliver Cromwell) and race-blind casting where it doesn't even matter seems already to be working, yet at the exact same time the opposite of raceblind casting, where the actor should match exactly, or as near as possible, to the role, seems increasingly popular.
    There's been controversy down in Chichester where a black actor has been cast as a Nazi officer in a coming production of The Sound of Music. The Von Trapp children appear to be various ethnicities.
    What’s the world coming to when we can’t insist on Aryans playing Nazis ?
    Hmmm - only people from the Indian subcontinent can play Nazis? It’s an idea I suppose.

    Now I’m imagining a Bollywood version of Downfall….
    Ahem.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Legion
    Yes, I knew of them. They weren’t very Nazi, really.
    Apart from being in the SS...
    By the end of the war, they were conscripting all sorts into the SS. Quite a few didn’t want to fight for the Germans, and weren’t Nazis.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malgré-nous Etc
    Wasn't there supposed to be some Chinese or Korean chap who got forcibly conscripted into the Soviet army and then the Nazi army over the course of the war?
    Yes. It's in the beginning of one of Anthony Beevor's books I believe.
    Japanese too.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    SandraMc said:

    kle4 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    I'll try for a distraction - here's yet another story about actors not understanding the concept of acting

    Michael Sheen: ‘I find it very hard to accept actors playing Welsh characters when they aren’t...'
    Has he taken the concept of authentic casting to a whole new level? Ahead of his latest BBC drama Best Interests, the star explains all

    https://t.co/VqYDu701zh

    @emmarevell: This attitude is so exhausting. Acting by it's very definition is pretending to be something or someone you are not

    @JonHollis9: Particularly given Michael Sheen has played a vampire, a werewolf, an angel, Jesus, Brian Clough, David Frost and Tony Blair (multiple times).

    Imagine the state of his career if he were only allowed to play middle aged Welsh men.

    I remember reading Maureen Lipman saying something like "If this nonsense carries on, you'll only be allowed to play yourself".
    'Authenticity' in acting is one of those concepts where I don't even understand why and how it arose as a supposedly progressive idea when pushed to the extremes we now see.

    I get concerns about apparent lack of ethnic roles which are not stereotypes, and the solution of improving that with a combination of more roles which would be appropriate (and not distracting, like Benedict Cumberbatch playing Nelson Mandela or Idris Elba playing Oliver Cromwell) and race-blind casting where it doesn't even matter seems already to be working, yet at the exact same time the opposite of raceblind casting, where the actor should match exactly, or as near as possible, to the role, seems increasingly popular.
    There's been controversy down in Chichester where a black actor has been cast as a Nazi officer in a coming production of The Sound of Music. The Von Trapp children appear to be various ethnicities.
    What’s the world coming to when we can’t insist on Aryans playing Nazis ?
    Hmmm - only people from the Indian subcontinent can play Nazis? It’s an idea I suppose.

    Now I’m imagining a Bollywood version of Downfall….
    Ahem.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Legion
    Yes, I knew of them. They weren’t very Nazi, really.
    Apart from being in the SS...
    By the end of the war, they were conscripting all sorts into the SS. Quite a few didn’t want to fight for the Germans, and weren’t Nazis.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malgré-nous Etc
    Wasn't there supposed to be some Chinese or Korean chap who got forcibly conscripted into the Soviet army and then the Nazi army over the course of the war?
    Bit of a lack of actual sources, though

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yang_Kyoungjong
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,481

    It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that pregnant teenagers are pregnant because they and/or their partners don't know how babies are made. Perhaps this is true in a few edge cases where people may have mental development issues. Many girls see pregnancy as a way of leaving home and being given the wherewithal to live. Assuming a decline in teenage motherhood is desirable (rather than welcoming it as a way to address population decline), I really don't think it can be addressed by sex education at a younger age.

    It may seem that way to you, but the people who have gone out and seen what actually happens disagree.

    From a UNESCO review of the available literature;

    The paper concludes that sex education programmes that are based on a comprehensive curriculum can delay the onset of sexual activity among adolescents and young people, reduce the frequency of intercourse, reduce the frequency of unprotected sex, reduce the number of sexual partners, and increase condom and contraceptive use. Furthermore, sex education programmes do not increase sexual activity among adolescents and young people and generally result in increased knowledge about human sexuality.

    https://healtheducationresources.unesco.org/library/documents/impact-sex-education-sexual-behaviour-young-people

    As to why... one of the things that adolescents like is discovery and breaking taboos. It's why they are both profoundly annoying and surprisingly life-enhancing to teach. If adults aren't talking about sex, it increases the taboo factor which increases the thrill.

    It's what Scandinavians have got right. Talk about sex as a thing that happens in various forms. Domesticate it, so to speak. Seems to work in practice.
    Yes, it's interesting to compare Denmark when I grew up (the 60s/70s) with the UK now. The Danes had pretty much arrived at the same point that we have, viewing sex as something people enjoyed but not something you only did with one person in your whole life. But Britain is still much more prurient - people still get a kick out of talking about boobs and bums and willies and the nation is gripped by whether Philip Schofield did or didn't have sex with someone (yes, I know that there's an angle about possibly improper incentives, but I don't believe that's why people are interested).

    Danish doesn't even have sexual swearwords (though they've picked up 'fuck' from English) - if you want to insult someone you say "idiot" or the like, and swearing at someone with a body part just sounds peculiar, like saying "You ankle!"
    Mandarin Chinese doesn't have it either.
    Stupid egg is the tops.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,388
    edited June 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    Charles Kennedy is trending on Twitter. Not sure why. Maybe something to do with Ian Blackford standing down in his old constituency.

    People seem to be blaming Blackford for Kennedy's death (because he took Kennedy's seat at the 2015 election)

    Seems very unfair on Ian Blackford... Ultimately the only one responsible for Charles Kennedy's death was Charles Kennedy.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    For fans of 80s music, the Human League are still performing live (with original members from 1981). This is a video of them in San Francisco just a few days ago.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3vr4DvA-1E
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoyWb6kZKns

    I'm seeing Depeche Mode at Twickenham on the 17th!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    SandraMc said:

    kle4 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    I'll try for a distraction - here's yet another story about actors not understanding the concept of acting

    Michael Sheen: ‘I find it very hard to accept actors playing Welsh characters when they aren’t...'
    Has he taken the concept of authentic casting to a whole new level? Ahead of his latest BBC drama Best Interests, the star explains all

    https://t.co/VqYDu701zh

    @emmarevell: This attitude is so exhausting. Acting by it's very definition is pretending to be something or someone you are not

    @JonHollis9: Particularly given Michael Sheen has played a vampire, a werewolf, an angel, Jesus, Brian Clough, David Frost and Tony Blair (multiple times).

    Imagine the state of his career if he were only allowed to play middle aged Welsh men.

    I remember reading Maureen Lipman saying something like "If this nonsense carries on, you'll only be allowed to play yourself".
    'Authenticity' in acting is one of those concepts where I don't even understand why and how it arose as a supposedly progressive idea when pushed to the extremes we now see.

    I get concerns about apparent lack of ethnic roles which are not stereotypes, and the solution of improving that with a combination of more roles which would be appropriate (and not distracting, like Benedict Cumberbatch playing Nelson Mandela or Idris Elba playing Oliver Cromwell) and race-blind casting where it doesn't even matter seems already to be working, yet at the exact same time the opposite of raceblind casting, where the actor should match exactly, or as near as possible, to the role, seems increasingly popular.
    There's been controversy down in Chichester where a black actor has been cast as a Nazi officer in a coming production of The Sound of Music. The Von Trapp children appear to be various ethnicities.
    What’s the world coming to when we can’t insist on Aryans playing Nazis ?
    Hmmm - only people from the Indian subcontinent can play Nazis? It’s an idea I suppose.

    Now I’m imagining a Bollywood version of Downfall….
    Ahem.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Legion
    Yes, I knew of them. They weren’t very Nazi, really.
    Apart from being in the SS...
    By the end of the war, they were conscripting all sorts into the SS. Quite a few didn’t want to fight for the Germans, and weren’t Nazis.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malgré-nous Etc
    Wasn't there supposed to be some Chinese or Korean chap who got forcibly conscripted into the Soviet army and then the Nazi army over the course of the war?
    Bit of a lack of actual sources, though

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yang_Kyoungjong
    Bloody historians always ruining a good story.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,690

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    SandraMc said:

    kle4 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    I'll try for a distraction - here's yet another story about actors not understanding the concept of acting

    Michael Sheen: ‘I find it very hard to accept actors playing Welsh characters when they aren’t...'
    Has he taken the concept of authentic casting to a whole new level? Ahead of his latest BBC drama Best Interests, the star explains all

    https://t.co/VqYDu701zh

    @emmarevell: This attitude is so exhausting. Acting by it's very definition is pretending to be something or someone you are not

    @JonHollis9: Particularly given Michael Sheen has played a vampire, a werewolf, an angel, Jesus, Brian Clough, David Frost and Tony Blair (multiple times).

    Imagine the state of his career if he were only allowed to play middle aged Welsh men.

    I remember reading Maureen Lipman saying something like "If this nonsense carries on, you'll only be allowed to play yourself".
    'Authenticity' in acting is one of those concepts where I don't even understand why and how it arose as a supposedly progressive idea when pushed to the extremes we now see.

    I get concerns about apparent lack of ethnic roles which are not stereotypes, and the solution of improving that with a combination of more roles which would be appropriate (and not distracting, like Benedict Cumberbatch playing Nelson Mandela or Idris Elba playing Oliver Cromwell) and race-blind casting where it doesn't even matter seems already to be working, yet at the exact same time the opposite of raceblind casting, where the actor should match exactly, or as near as possible, to the role, seems increasingly popular.
    There's been controversy down in Chichester where a black actor has been cast as a Nazi officer in a coming production of The Sound of Music. The Von Trapp children appear to be various ethnicities.
    What’s the world coming to when we can’t insist on Aryans playing Nazis ?
    Hmmm - only people from the Indian subcontinent can play Nazis? It’s an idea I suppose.

    Now I’m imagining a Bollywood version of Downfall….
    Ahem.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Legion
    Yes, I knew of them. They weren’t very Nazi, really.
    Apart from being in the SS...
    By the end of the war, they were conscripting all sorts into the SS. Quite a few didn’t want to fight for the Germans, and weren’t Nazis.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malgré-nous Etc
    Wasn't there supposed to be some Chinese or Korean chap who got forcibly conscripted into the Soviet army and then the Nazi army over the course of the war?
    Bit of a lack of actual sources, though

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yang_Kyoungjong
    I always liked this story of Joseph Beyrle who fought both with the US 101st and, after escaping from a German POW camp, with the Russian Guards Tank Army as they advanced on Berlin. The only serviceman to receive both the Bronze Star and the order of the Red Star.

    His son served as US ambassador to Russia during the Obama presidency.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Beyrle
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    People's Party + Vox are averaging around 48.5% combined in the Spanish polls.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2023_Spanish_general_election
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    GIN1138 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Charles Kennedy is trending on Twitter. Not sure why. Maybe something to do with Ian Blackford standing down in his old constituency.

    People seem to be blaming Blackford for Kennedy's death (because he took Kennedy's seat at the 2015 election)

    Seems very unfair on Ian Blackford... Ultimately the only one responsible for Charles Kennedy's death was Charles Kennedy.
    Unless there was skullduggery going on you cannot blame someone for defeating a political opponent, whatever subsequently happened.

    Not the exact same type of thing, but it puts me in mind of the ridiculous question Paxman asked Galloway about whether he was proud for having 'got rid of' one of the few black women in parliament, as if there was something unreasonable about having taken on and defeated an opponent.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    That’s a $30,000 bottle of 1933 bourbon right there


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Here’s how much you need squirrelled away today to fund a comfortable retirement at 68

    £37,000 a year, the amount needed to retire on 'comfortably', takes diligent effort"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/financial-planning/annual-income-retirement-fund-pension-savings-37000/

    My wife’s plan is to win the lottery to pay for our retirement. She’s been practicing for 20 years now so she must be getting good.
    Is it too late to transition into becoming one of those souless, grasping corporate lawyers we see in TV shows? Bit out of your field perhaps.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    #DontBlameTheLanguage

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,168

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    SandraMc said:

    kle4 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    I'll try for a distraction - here's yet another story about actors not understanding the concept of acting

    Michael Sheen: ‘I find it very hard to accept actors playing Welsh characters when they aren’t...'
    Has he taken the concept of authentic casting to a whole new level? Ahead of his latest BBC drama Best Interests, the star explains all

    https://t.co/VqYDu701zh

    @emmarevell: This attitude is so exhausting. Acting by it's very definition is pretending to be something or someone you are not

    @JonHollis9: Particularly given Michael Sheen has played a vampire, a werewolf, an angel, Jesus, Brian Clough, David Frost and Tony Blair (multiple times).

    Imagine the state of his career if he were only allowed to play middle aged Welsh men.

    I remember reading Maureen Lipman saying something like "If this nonsense carries on, you'll only be allowed to play yourself".
    'Authenticity' in acting is one of those concepts where I don't even understand why and how it arose as a supposedly progressive idea when pushed to the extremes we now see.

    I get concerns about apparent lack of ethnic roles which are not stereotypes, and the solution of improving that with a combination of more roles which would be appropriate (and not distracting, like Benedict Cumberbatch playing Nelson Mandela or Idris Elba playing Oliver Cromwell) and race-blind casting where it doesn't even matter seems already to be working, yet at the exact same time the opposite of raceblind casting, where the actor should match exactly, or as near as possible, to the role, seems increasingly popular.
    There's been controversy down in Chichester where a black actor has been cast as a Nazi officer in a coming production of The Sound of Music. The Von Trapp children appear to be various ethnicities.
    What’s the world coming to when we can’t insist on Aryans playing Nazis ?
    Hmmm - only people from the Indian subcontinent can play Nazis? It’s an idea I suppose.

    Now I’m imagining a Bollywood version of Downfall….
    Ahem.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Legion
    Yes, I knew of them. They weren’t very Nazi, really.
    Apart from being in the SS...
    By the end of the war, they were conscripting all sorts into the SS. Quite a few didn’t want to fight for the Germans, and weren’t Nazis.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malgré-nous Etc
    Wasn't there supposed to be some Chinese or Korean chap who got forcibly conscripted into the Soviet army and then the Nazi army over the course of the war?
    Bit of a lack of actual sources, though

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yang_Kyoungjong
    I always liked this story of Joseph Beyrle who fought both with the US 101st and, after escaping from a German POW camp, with the Russian Guards Tank Army as they advanced on Berlin. The only serviceman to receive both the Bronze Star and the order of the Red Star.

    His son served as US ambassador to Russia during the Obama presidency.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Beyrle
    This guy was awarded an Iron Cross and an MBE in the same year. His contribution to the success of Overlord looks substantial.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Pujol_García

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    SandraMc said:

    kle4 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    I'll try for a distraction - here's yet another story about actors not understanding the concept of acting

    Michael Sheen: ‘I find it very hard to accept actors playing Welsh characters when they aren’t...'
    Has he taken the concept of authentic casting to a whole new level? Ahead of his latest BBC drama Best Interests, the star explains all

    https://t.co/VqYDu701zh

    @emmarevell: This attitude is so exhausting. Acting by it's very definition is pretending to be something or someone you are not

    @JonHollis9: Particularly given Michael Sheen has played a vampire, a werewolf, an angel, Jesus, Brian Clough, David Frost and Tony Blair (multiple times).

    Imagine the state of his career if he were only allowed to play middle aged Welsh men.

    I remember reading Maureen Lipman saying something like "If this nonsense carries on, you'll only be allowed to play yourself".
    'Authenticity' in acting is one of those concepts where I don't even understand why and how it arose as a supposedly progressive idea when pushed to the extremes we now see.

    I get concerns about apparent lack of ethnic roles which are not stereotypes, and the solution of improving that with a combination of more roles which would be appropriate (and not distracting, like Benedict Cumberbatch playing Nelson Mandela or Idris Elba playing Oliver Cromwell) and race-blind casting where it doesn't even matter seems already to be working, yet at the exact same time the opposite of raceblind casting, where the actor should match exactly, or as near as possible, to the role, seems increasingly popular.
    There's been controversy down in Chichester where a black actor has been cast as a Nazi officer in a coming production of The Sound of Music. The Von Trapp children appear to be various ethnicities.
    What’s the world coming to when we can’t insist on Aryans playing Nazis ?
    Hmmm - only people from the Indian subcontinent can play Nazis? It’s an idea I suppose.

    Now I’m imagining a Bollywood version of Downfall….
    Ahem.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Legion
    Yes, I knew of them. They weren’t very Nazi, really.
    Apart from being in the SS...
    By the end of the war, they were conscripting all sorts into the SS. Quite a few didn’t want to fight for the Germans, and weren’t Nazis.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malgré-nous Etc
    Wasn't there supposed to be some Chinese or Korean chap who got forcibly conscripted into the Soviet army and then the Nazi army over the course of the war?
    Bit of a lack of actual sources, though

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yang_Kyoungjong
    I always liked this story of Joseph Beyrle who fought both with the US 101st and, after escaping from a German POW camp, with the Russian Guards Tank Army as they advanced on Berlin. The only serviceman to receive both the Bronze Star and the order of the Red Star.

    His son served as US ambassador to Russia during the Obama presidency.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Beyrle
    This guy was awarded an Iron Cross and an MBE in the same year. His contribution to the success of Overlord looks substantial.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Pujol_García

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Chapman
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,424
    Farooq said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Charles Kennedy is trending on Twitter. Not sure why. Maybe something to do with Ian Blackford standing down in his old constituency.

    People seem to be blaming Blackford for Kennedy's death (because he took Kennedy's seat at the 2015 election)

    Seems very unfair on Ian Blackford... Ultimately the only one responsible for Charles Kennedy's death was Charles Kennedy.
    I don't mean to sound unkind, especially as I respected what Kennedy did around the Iraq war, but it's just as well Blackford won because we shouldn't have such self-destructive characters in parliament. It's really not fair on constituents to have someone who is sozzled half the time in charge of important things.

    See also Johnson, B.
    Kennedy drunk was a better reader of Iraq than Blair sober.

    Churchill was frequently drunk

    Trump is genuinely teetotal
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    edited June 2023
    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Charles Kennedy is trending on Twitter. Not sure why. Maybe something to do with Ian Blackford standing down in his old constituency.

    People seem to be blaming Blackford for Kennedy's death (because he took Kennedy's seat at the 2015 election)

    Seems very unfair on Ian Blackford... Ultimately the only one responsible for Charles Kennedy's death was Charles Kennedy.
    I don't mean to sound unkind, especially as I respected what Kennedy did around the Iraq war, but it's just as well Blackford won because we shouldn't have such self-destructive characters in parliament. It's really not fair on constituents to have someone who is sozzled half the time in charge of important things.

    See also Johnson, B.
    Kennedy drunk was a better reader of Iraq than Blair sober.

    Churchill was frequently drunk

    Trump is genuinely teetotal
    How can we really know whether Trump is or not? It's all publicity management at the end of the day as far as politicians are concerned. Wasn't there a famous politician who managed to keep secret the fact he was slightly disabled in some way? Can't remember who it was now.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    F*** me! I've been trying to tune into PB all evening and I just keep getting Mumsnet.
  • WestieWestie Posts: 426
    kle4 said:

    #DontBlameTheLanguage

    Some Ukrainian officials are complaining about that. But what language did "Servant of the People" first appear in?

    The Russian language may not be quite as great as the English one, but still you gotta have respect for a language that calls sleepwalking "lunatism" (лунатизм).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Charles Kennedy is trending on Twitter. Not sure why. Maybe something to do with Ian Blackford standing down in his old constituency.

    People seem to be blaming Blackford for Kennedy's death (because he took Kennedy's seat at the 2015 election)

    Seems very unfair on Ian Blackford... Ultimately the only one responsible for Charles Kennedy's death was Charles Kennedy.
    I don't mean to sound unkind, especially as I respected what Kennedy did around the Iraq war, but it's just as well Blackford won because we shouldn't have such self-destructive characters in parliament. It's really not fair on constituents to have someone who is sozzled half the time in charge of important things.

    See also Johnson, B.
    Kennedy drunk was a better reader of Iraq than Blair sober.

    Churchill was frequently drunk

    Trump is genuinely teetotal
    How can we really know whether Trump is or not? It's all publicity management at the end of the day as far as politicians are concerned. Wasn't there a famous politician who managed to keep secret the fact he was slightly disabled in some way? Can't remember who it was now.
    Franklin Delano Roosevelt was wheelchair bound.
  • WestieWestie Posts: 426
    edited June 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Charles Kennedy is trending on Twitter. Not sure why. Maybe something to do with Ian Blackford standing down in his old constituency.

    People seem to be blaming Blackford for Kennedy's death (because he took Kennedy's seat at the 2015 election)

    Seems very unfair on Ian Blackford... Ultimately the only one responsible for Charles Kennedy's death was Charles Kennedy.
    I don't mean to sound unkind, especially as I respected what Kennedy did around the Iraq war, but it's just as well Blackford won because we shouldn't have such self-destructive characters in parliament. It's really not fair on constituents to have someone who is sozzled half the time in charge of important things.

    See also Johnson, B.
    Kennedy drunk was a better reader of Iraq than Blair sober.

    Churchill was frequently drunk

    Trump is genuinely teetotal
    How can we really know whether Trump is or not? It's all publicity management at the end of the day as far as politicians are concerned.
    He hasn't been a politician for long.
    His elder brother Fred (Jr), who didn't become the kind of "killer" their father wanted, died from an alcohol-related heart attack. He says Fred Jr whose life was a mess advised him not to touch the bottle. Seems likely that he sometimes says things that are true, even if he's nuts and even if he's a politician nowadays. Fred Jr by the way was the father of Mary. I wouldn't be surprised if Mary puts in an appearance in the future part of Donald's story.


  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,424
    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Charles Kennedy is trending on Twitter. Not sure why. Maybe something to do with Ian Blackford standing down in his old constituency.

    People seem to be blaming Blackford for Kennedy's death (because he took Kennedy's seat at the 2015 election)

    Seems very unfair on Ian Blackford... Ultimately the only one responsible for Charles Kennedy's death was Charles Kennedy.
    I don't mean to sound unkind, especially as I respected what Kennedy did around the Iraq war, but it's just as well Blackford won because we shouldn't have such self-destructive characters in parliament. It's really not fair on constituents to have someone who is sozzled half the time in charge of important things.

    See also Johnson, B.
    Kennedy drunk was a better reader of Iraq than Blair sober.

    Churchill was frequently drunk

    Trump is genuinely teetotal
    How can we really know whether Trump is or not?...
    Weirdly I think he really is. His brother ended badly due to drink and Donald held him in some contempt. He's never needed to pose or fit in - people fit to him, not vice versa - and has no need nor wish to use alcohol. If he were lying there's plenty of scope for photographic evidence.

This discussion has been closed.