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The Tory housing crisis – politicalbetting.com

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  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,808

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Still awaiting the "hottest day of the year."
    12°C and overcast.

    25 degrees here yesterday at one point.
    Pretty pleasant in Yorkshire, too.
    But the west of the country has had by far the best of the weather this week.
    Its been noticably cool in Lincolnshire this year so far, especially at night. I am noticing it because of moth trapping (I wonder how Marquee Mark is finding it down in Devont on that score?) and I have not had a single night above 10 degrees so far in 2023. A couple of nights ago we were down at 5 degrees. I know it will warm up but I wish it would hurry up.
    There’s a noticeable shortage of insects this year. I think I’ve seen no more than a few butterflies, although we’ve had quite a few bees refreshing or washing themselves in out bird-bath.
    And the blue-tits which nested in our nest box laid eight eggs but only managed to get two chicks to fledge.
    I’ve seen Holly Blue in normal numbers, Orange Tip a bit thin on the ground, Ditto Green Veined White. Plenty of Brimstone in the right places, a few Tortoiseshells, Large and Small Whites and a Grizzled Skipper which I’m always happy to see. Insects need habitat, I do the best I can with my garden including a wilded patch of lawn, but much of the UK is very nature unfriendly.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,441

    Chris said:

    Heathener said:

    Morning to y'all.

    Quality of life is also dropping because there are too many people living on this small island.

    That's not a comment about immigration. The number of humans on the planet is increasingly unsustainable.

    It is a comment on immigration since that is why the population is increasing.

    Without immigration we would be looking at Japan style demographics. Primary schools closing for lack of need etc.
    Already happening in London:

    https://schoolsweek.co.uk/study-reveals-full-scale-of-london-pupil-exodus-amid-school-closures/

    Willingness to have children is one of those indicator species of a happy confident people.

    Which is presumably why Boris has so many.
    Robert Jenrick rails against migrants refusing to sleep four to a room.

    In a rather striking inversion of that situation, Jenrick himself owns two homes in London and a 17th-century manor house in Herefordshire, as well as renting a property in his constituency for £2,000 a month.

    Still, fair dos. He did work for a living for six years before he - like the migrants - became taxpayer-funded.
    I did like the comment in the article that having excess pupil spaces in schools was bad.

    Everyone has become conditioned to the “99% usage is good”‘ nonsense.

    Operational Research tells you that if you run your organisation at 99% of capacity, staff morale will collapse. Sickness and absenteeism will soar. Quality will suffer. A slight problem causes massive collapses. Secondary goals will be forgotten and ignored.

    Strangely….
    The funding models- certainly for schools, arguably for hospitals- reward running as close to 100% as you dare; the money comes for having as many pupils on roll / doing as many treatments as possible. There's no reward for resilience, so organisations don't do it. And the curtain-twitching press would love to run "SCANDAL of WASTEFUL hospital with EMPTY beds while MILLIONS wait" headlines.

    In the case of schools, there's also an issue of a baby boomlet (roughly 2002-2012) that has been followed by a bustlet. So we needed more primary places but only for a decade or so but that has now fed into secondaries and is beginning to hit HE. Again, running the system hot all the time doesn't help cope with this sort of thing.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Still awaiting the "hottest day of the year."
    12°C and overcast.

    25 degrees here yesterday at one point.
    Pretty pleasant in Yorkshire, too.
    But the west of the country has had by far the best of the weather this week.
    Its been noticably cool in Lincolnshire this year so far, especially at night. I am noticing it because of moth trapping (I wonder how Marquee Mark is finding it down in Devont on that score?) and I have not had a single night above 10 degrees so far in 2023. A couple of nights ago we were down at 5 degrees. I know it will warm up but I wish it would hurry up.
    There’s a noticeable shortage of insects this year. I think I’ve seen no more than a few butterflies, although we’ve had quite a few bees refreshing or washing themselves in out bird-bath.
    And the blue-tits which nested in our nest box laid eight eggs but only managed to get two chicks to fledge.
    The insect collapse really is noticeable sadly.

    I am not sure it is a widespread or accepted idea as yet but I am firmly of the opinion that it dates to the replacement of lead in petrol with benzene and MTBE. Back in 2000 when there was a rapid decline in House Sparrow populations in the UK one of the leading experts on the bird identified the lead replacement additives as being a possible cause. But he was primarily looking at direct poisoning of the birds whereas I think the effect has been far more insidious. We have seen a massive collapse in insect populations and of course that has a knock on effect on all those birds which rely on insects for diet. It started with urban birds which is why the House Sparrows were so badly affectd so early but has now spread around the countryside.

    The same effect is being seen in Europe and the Germans have been taking the petrol additive idea very seriously. It makes more sense in this instance than climate change or pesticides which are the more normal suspects. Particularly as pesticide use has been declining just as the insect populations has been collapsing.

    For me it is a very good reason to be looking forward to the end of the mass use of ICEs
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,069
    A

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Still awaiting the "hottest day of the year."
    12°C and overcast.

    25 degrees here yesterday at one point.
    Pretty pleasant in Yorkshire, too.
    But the west of the country has had by far the best of the weather this week.
    Its been noticably cool in Lincolnshire this year so far, especially at night. I am noticing it because of moth trapping (I wonder how Marquee Mark is finding it down in Devont on that score?) and I have not had a single night above 10 degrees so far in 2023. A couple of nights ago we were down at 5 degrees. I know it will warm up but I wish it would hurry up.
    There’s a noticeable shortage of insects this year. I think I’ve seen no more than a few butterflies, although we’ve had quite a few bees refreshing or washing themselves in out bird-bath.
    And the blue-tits which nested in our nest box laid eight eggs but only managed to get two chicks to fledge.
    The insect collapse really is noticeable sadly.

    I am not sure it is a widespread or accepted idea as yet but I am firmly of the opinion that it dates to the replacement of lead in petrol with benzene and MTBE. Back in 2000 when there was a rapid decline in House Sparrow populations in the UK one of the leading experts on the bird identified the lead replacement additives as being a possible cause. But he was primarily looking at direct poisoning of the birds whereas I think the effect has been far more insidious. We have seen a massive collapse in insect populations and of course that has a knock on effect on all those birds which rely on insects for diet. It started with urban birds which is why the House Sparrows were so badly affectd so early but has now spread around the countryside.

    The same effect is being seen in Europe and the Germans have been taking the petrol additive idea very seriously. It makes more sense in this instance than climate change or pesticides which are the more normal suspects. Particularly as pesticide use has been declining just as the insect populations has been collapsing.

    For me it is a very good reason to be looking forward to the end of the mass use of ICEs
    Getting rid of petrol and diesel pays for itself just by removing the system by which we ship money overseas to nasty people*, in return for wildly varying prices for fuel.

    The saving the planet bit is a free topping.

    *except for the Norwegians. No one in oil business has a bad word to say about them.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,808
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2023_Spanish_general_election

    More Spanish election polling and all show growing leads for PP compared to their previous polls before the locals. Still no sign of an absolute majority but PSOE are not close even if all the minority parties except Vox supported them - which they won't

    Looks like by July both Italy and Spain will have hard right governments then. The Anglo Saxon world may be shifting to the centre left, Southern Europe though clearly shifting right
    The Anglo-Saxon world? What’s that? I’m not sure that even England qualifies as ‘Anglo-Saxon’ now.
    The Anglo Saxon world ie UK (albeit mainly England), Germany, Denmark, Australia, the USA and
    Canada (excluding Quebec) and New Zealand
    Netherlands and Flemish part of Belgium too…….

    However I don’t really see any political trend that binds all these together.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Still awaiting the "hottest day of the year."
    12°C and overcast.

    25 degrees here yesterday at one point.
    Pretty pleasant in Yorkshire, too.
    But the west of the country has had by far the best of the weather this week.
    Its been noticably cool in Lincolnshire this year so far, especially at night. I am noticing it because of moth trapping (I wonder how Marquee Mark is finding it down in Devont on that score?) and I have not had a single night above 10 degrees so far in 2023. A couple of nights ago we were down at 5 degrees. I know it will warm up but I wish it would hurry up.
    There’s a noticeable shortage of insects this year. I think I’ve seen no more than a few butterflies, although we’ve had quite a few bees refreshing or washing themselves in out bird-bath.
    And the blue-tits which nested in our nest box laid eight eggs but only managed to get two chicks to fledge.
    I’ve seen Holly Blue in normal numbers, Orange Tip a bit thin on the ground, Ditto Green Veined White. Plenty of Brimstone in the right places, a few Tortoiseshells, Large and Small Whites and a Grizzled Skipper which I’m always happy to see. Insects need habitat, I do the best I can with my garden including a wilded patch of lawn, but much of the UK is very nature unfriendly.
    I had a much higher than ususal number of Holly Blues and Orange Tips. Plenty of Brimstones as well. A few of the gliders but not many and I think that is probably temperature related at the moment. This last couple of weeks has been good for me for some of the blues. I saw my first Small Copper last week and this week both Brown Argus and Common Blues in my meadows. The big success for me this year has been finally tempting Speckled Woods into the new woodland we have planted over the last decade. A real red letter day for me when I saw them.

    It is the lack of bees, hoverflies and ladybirds that gives me the most concern at the moment.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,980

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Still awaiting the "hottest day of the year."
    12°C and overcast.

    25 degrees here yesterday at one point.
    Pretty pleasant in Yorkshire, too.
    But the west of the country has had by far the best of the weather this week.
    Its been noticably cool in Lincolnshire this year so far, especially at night. I am noticing it because of moth trapping (I wonder how Marquee Mark is finding it down in Devont on that score?) and I have not had a single night above 10 degrees so far in 2023. A couple of nights ago we were down at 5 degrees. I know it will warm up but I wish it would hurry up.
    There’s a noticeable shortage of insects this year. I think I’ve seen no more than a few butterflies, although we’ve had quite a few bees refreshing or washing themselves in out bird-bath.
    And the blue-tits which nested in our nest box laid eight eggs but only managed to get two chicks to fledge.
    The insect collapse really is noticeable sadly.

    I am not sure it is a widespread or accepted idea as yet but I am firmly of the opinion that it dates to the replacement of lead in petrol with benzene and MTBE. Back in 2000 when there was a rapid decline in House Sparrow populations in the UK one of the leading experts on the bird identified the lead replacement additives as being a possible cause. But he was primarily looking at direct poisoning of the birds whereas I think the effect has been far more insidious. We have seen a massive collapse in insect populations and of course that has a knock on effect on all those birds which rely on insects for diet. It started with urban birds which is why the House Sparrows were so badly affectd so early but has now spread around the countryside.

    The same effect is being seen in Europe and the Germans have been taking the petrol additive idea very seriously. It makes more sense in this instance than climate change or pesticides which are the more normal suspects. Particularly as pesticide use has been declining just as the insect populations has been collapsing.

    For me it is a very good reason to be looking forward to the end of the mass use of ICEs
    Can't remember where I read it now - but someone was talking about their house in rural France. In years gone by they had to raise their voice towards sunset to be heard over the noise of the insects and birds. Now they hear barely a cheep or a buzz.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,575
    As predicted, but still sad.

    .@WalshFreedom on the growing GOP primary field: "I don't think any serious candidate thinks they can beat Trump... Their hope is that the Justice Department takes Donald Trump out."
    https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1665072633505775617?cxt=HHwWgoCw1Z-vw5suAAAA
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,109
    edited June 2023
    Leon said:

    Beautiful on the Primrose Hill frontier today

    A quite good Times article (££) on the overwhelming migration coming Europe’s way:


    “World on the move: my journey across the Alps with the migrants fleeing Africa”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/829fef16-015a-11ee-91d8-175820cfdf88?shareToken=1646155852e6cbf3b77a2236fc013996

    The rightward swing in many European countries is surely an early reaction to this? Racist Brexit Britain is the outlier - possibly the most tolerant large country in Europe, and swinging left at the next election. For now

    To link in with the other theme on this thread, global warming and its consequences will cause a lot of environmental refugees, and exacerbate other social and political tensions.

    One return long haul flight produces much the same carbon in the atmosphere as 4 years driving for the average ICE car. Think about putting that in your next puff piece for the travel industry.

    It's an interconnected world.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    Beautiful on the Primrose Hill frontier today

    A quite good Times article (££) on the overwhelming migration coming Europe’s way:


    “World on the move: my journey across the Alps with the migrants fleeing Africa”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/829fef16-015a-11ee-91d8-175820cfdf88?shareToken=1646155852e6cbf3b77a2236fc013996

    The rightward swing in many European countries is surely an early reaction to this? Racist Brexit Britain is the outlier - possibly the most tolerant large country in Europe, and swinging left at the next election. For now

    I’ve come to realise that your problem lies in spending so little time in the U.K. You simply don’t understand it, it’s people, or it’s politics. Surely there must be something you can post about with accuracy?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,069
    kle4 said:

    Even if there was a valid point about not recovering sufficiently from prior low spells, it's telling that these companies still feel the need to included blatant untruths in their messaging about what has happened recently. Yet another industry that knows it can do whatever the f*ck it wants.

    @SouthWestWater
    A hosepipe ban means we can safeguard water supplies following limited & inconsistent rainfall over past months

    We know that Temporary Use Bans/Hosepipe Bans can be confusing & worrying, so we've got a guide to explain what it means & how it affects you

    @SpaJw
    This is simply not true. We’ve had the eighth wettest October-April in the South West in the last 133 years. The Environment Agency confirms it. https://gov.uk/government/publications/water-situation-local-area-reports/devon-and-cornwall-water-situation-april-2023-summary

    @SouthWestWater
    The National Drought Group which is headed by the Environment Agency have classified Devon and Cornwall as being in drought, even with the rainfall it has not been sufficient to recharge the larger reservoirs from their lowest ever levels caused by 2022's unprecedented dry spell.

    @SpaJw
    It is simply not true to say that rainfall has been limited and inconsistent. That you were unable to capture the abundancy of rain we have had over the last few months is an entirely separate issue. Do not gaslight us.

    https://twitter.com/SpaJw/status/1664602510043103232

    I wonder whether @SpaJw campaigned for or against more reservoirs/reservoir expansion.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,069
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Beautiful on the Primrose Hill frontier today

    A quite good Times article (££) on the overwhelming migration coming Europe’s way:


    “World on the move: my journey across the Alps with the migrants fleeing Africa”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/829fef16-015a-11ee-91d8-175820cfdf88?shareToken=1646155852e6cbf3b77a2236fc013996

    The rightward swing in many European countries is surely an early reaction to this? Racist Brexit Britain is the outlier - possibly the most tolerant large country in Europe, and swinging left at the next election. For now

    I’ve come to realise that your problem lies in spending so little time in the U.K. You simply don’t understand it, it’s people, or it’s politics. Surely there must be something you can post about with accuracy?
    Maybe visit about.with.accuracy ?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,742
    edited June 2023
    It's just charging points (or the lack thereof) that puts me off electric cars.

    I don't live in the middle of nowhere. I don't live in a big city, sure, but it's not the middle of nowhere (a commuter town for a big city), and there are maybe, oh, 3 or 4 charging points within my town and the neighbouring 2 towns, which probably account for the best part of 10,000 people in total (I estimate).

    Given I don't have a drive at my house to install my own charging point (communal shared space), I just don't know where I'd be expected to charge my car when I needed it.

    There's only 1 or 2 petrol stations for the same vicinity, but I can go to one of those and fill up in seconds, rather than basically need to hog one of the limited spaces for hours to charge up.

    I can't really see me changing to electric until that disparity is somehow re-balanced, either through much faster charging in limited numbers or many, many more electric charging points local to me.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,575
    edited June 2023

    kle4 said:

    Even if there was a valid point about not recovering sufficiently from prior low spells, it's telling that these companies still feel the need to included blatant untruths in their messaging about what has happened recently. Yet another industry that knows it can do whatever the f*ck it wants.

    @SouthWestWater
    A hosepipe ban means we can safeguard water supplies following limited & inconsistent rainfall over past months

    We know that Temporary Use Bans/Hosepipe Bans can be confusing & worrying, so we've got a guide to explain what it means & how it affects you

    @SpaJw
    This is simply not true. We’ve had the eighth wettest October-April in the South West in the last 133 years. The Environment Agency confirms it. https://gov.uk/government/publications/water-situation-local-area-reports/devon-and-cornwall-water-situation-april-2023-summary

    @SouthWestWater
    The National Drought Group which is headed by the Environment Agency have classified Devon and Cornwall as being in drought, even with the rainfall it has not been sufficient to recharge the larger reservoirs from their lowest ever levels caused by 2022's unprecedented dry spell.

    @SpaJw
    It is simply not true to say that rainfall has been limited and inconsistent. That you were unable to capture the abundancy of rain we have had over the last few months is an entirely separate issue. Do not gaslight us.

    https://twitter.com/SpaJw/status/1664602510043103232

    I wonder whether SpaJw campaigned for or against more reservoirs/reservoir expansion.
    I do too, but as he notes water capture is a separate issue to the company giving a false explanation about need for hosepipe bans, and so is irrelevant to the point here - and he may well be in favour anyway!

    Indeed, if the main issue is that we dont have enough resevoirs because of NIMBYism and poor planning, the company could and should have led with that, not come up with an easily disprovable lie about inconsistent and limited rainfall.

    They decided not to, and that is a clear indicator of an industry that has no real consequences to putting out untruths.

    We see this in politics quite a bit as well, where the real issue or explanation is politically unpalatable for some reason, so easily disproved assertions are made instead. Only in the company's case the issue is not even unpalatable if you are right, they could have pointed out that even good rain is not enough because our policies and infrastructure are bad.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,808

    It's just charging points (or the lack thereof) that puts me off electric cars.

    I don't live in the middle of nowhere. I don't live in a big city, sure, but it's not the middle of nowhere (a commuter town for a big city), and there are maybe, oh, 3 or 4 charging points within my town and the neighbouring 2 towns, which probably account for the best part of 10,000 people in total (I estimate).

    Given I don't have a drive at my house to install my own charging point (communal shared space), I just don't know where I'd be expected to charge my car when I needed it.

    There's only 1 or 2 petrol stations for the same vicinity, but I can go to one of those and fill up in seconds, rather than basically need to hog one of the limited spaces for hours to charge up.

    I can't really see me changing to electric until that disparity is somehow re-balanced, either through much faster charging in limited numbers or many, many more electric charging points local to me.

    They’re coming though. I went to Stratford races on Friday night and finding myself with plenty of time stopped for a drink at the Blue Boar in Binton, a few miles from the course. Was pleasantly surprised to see 4 charging points in the pub car park. I’ve had my car since 2009 and it’s reached the point where it’s time to change. I’m very interested in making the jump.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    edited June 2023

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2023_Spanish_general_election

    More Spanish election polling and all show growing leads for PP compared to their previous polls before the locals. Still no sign of an absolute majority but PSOE are not close even if all the minority parties except Vox supported them - which they won't

    Looks like by July both Italy and Spain will have hard right governments then. The Anglo Saxon world may be shifting to the centre left, Southern Europe though clearly shifting right
    The Anglo-Saxon world? What’s that? I’m not sure that even England qualifies as ‘Anglo-Saxon’ now.
    The Anglo Saxon world ie UK (albeit mainly England), Germany, Denmark, Australia, the USA and
    Canada (excluding Quebec) and New Zealand
    Netherlands and Flemish part of Belgium too…….

    However I don’t really see any political trend that binds all these together.
    The northern Dutch maybe as they descended from Saxon linked groups, the Flemish however descended from Frankish linked groups and so like the rest of Belgium were closer to the French.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,575
    edited June 2023

    kle4 said:

    Even if there was a valid point about not recovering sufficiently from prior low spells, it's telling that these companies still feel the need to included blatant untruths in their messaging about what has happened recently. Yet another industry that knows it can do whatever the f*ck it wants.

    @SouthWestWater
    A hosepipe ban means we can safeguard water supplies following limited & inconsistent rainfall over past months

    We know that Temporary Use Bans/Hosepipe Bans can be confusing & worrying, so we've got a guide to explain what it means & how it affects you

    @SpaJw
    This is simply not true. We’ve had the eighth wettest October-April in the South West in the last 133 years. The Environment Agency confirms it. https://gov.uk/government/publications/water-situation-local-area-reports/devon-and-cornwall-water-situation-april-2023-summary

    @SouthWestWater
    The National Drought Group which is headed by the Environment Agency have classified Devon and Cornwall as being in drought, even with the rainfall it has not been sufficient to recharge the larger reservoirs from their lowest ever levels caused by 2022's unprecedented dry spell.

    @SpaJw
    It is simply not true to say that rainfall has been limited and inconsistent. That you were unable to capture the abundancy of rain we have had over the last few months is an entirely separate issue. Do not gaslight us.

    https://twitter.com/SpaJw/status/1664602510043103232

    That’s me - and it makes me so furious. The gaslighting by a company that has failed consistently to invest in better water capture and management is an absolute scandal. We are heading to major shortages this summer after the eighth wettest autumn/winter/spring since records began. It’s just not good enough.

    I was joking with someone a few weeks ago that the good thing about the really wet start to the year was at least we would be spared the endless moaning and threat about the need for hosepipe bans. How naiive I was.

    We have sufficient water resource in this country. We shouldn't find ourselves in this situation, and though there's plenty of blame to spread around, lies about there not being enough rain are infuriating.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    edited June 2023

    kle4 said:

    Even if there was a valid point about not recovering sufficiently from prior low spells, it's telling that these companies still feel the need to included blatant untruths in their messaging about what has happened recently. Yet another industry that knows it can do whatever the f*ck it wants.

    @SouthWestWater
    A hosepipe ban means we can safeguard water supplies following limited & inconsistent rainfall over past months

    We know that Temporary Use Bans/Hosepipe Bans can be confusing & worrying, so we've got a guide to explain what it means & how it affects you

    @SpaJw
    This is simply not true. We’ve had the eighth wettest October-April in the South West in the last 133 years. The Environment Agency confirms it. https://gov.uk/government/publications/water-situation-local-area-reports/devon-and-cornwall-water-situation-april-2023-summary

    @SouthWestWater
    The National Drought Group which is headed by the Environment Agency have classified Devon and Cornwall as being in drought, even with the rainfall it has not been sufficient to recharge the larger reservoirs from their lowest ever levels caused by 2022's unprecedented dry spell.

    @SpaJw
    It is simply not true to say that rainfall has been limited and inconsistent. That you were unable to capture the abundancy of rain we have had over the last few months is an entirely separate issue. Do not gaslight us.

    https://twitter.com/SpaJw/status/1664602510043103232

    I wonder whether @SpaJw campaigned for or against more reservoirs/reservoir expansion.
    The current reservoirs aren’t even full. Given the rain there was from mid-September to mid-May that can only be because SW Water has failed to invest in adequate leak prevention and water capture/management. I would not trust the people who currently run the company to turn on a tap, let alone build a new reservoir! I would certainly favour more in principle, though.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,109

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Still awaiting the "hottest day of the year."
    12°C and overcast.

    25 degrees here yesterday at one point.
    Pretty pleasant in Yorkshire, too.
    But the west of the country has had by far the best of the weather this week.
    Its been noticably cool in Lincolnshire this year so far, especially at night. I am noticing it because of moth trapping (I wonder how Marquee Mark is finding it down in Devont on that score?) and I have not had a single night above 10 degrees so far in 2023. A couple of nights ago we were down at 5 degrees. I know it will warm up but I wish it would hurry up.
    There’s a noticeable shortage of insects this year. I think I’ve seen no more than a few butterflies, although we’ve had quite a few bees refreshing or washing themselves in out bird-bath.
    And the blue-tits which nested in our nest box laid eight eggs but only managed to get two chicks to fledge.
    The insect collapse really is noticeable sadly.

    I am not sure it is a widespread or accepted idea as yet but I am firmly of the opinion that it dates to the replacement of lead in petrol with benzene and MTBE. Back in 2000 when there was a rapid decline in House Sparrow populations in the UK one of the leading experts on the bird identified the lead replacement additives as being a possible cause. But he was primarily looking at direct poisoning of the birds whereas I think the effect has been far more insidious. We have seen a massive collapse in insect populations and of course that has a knock on effect on all those birds which rely on insects for diet. It started with urban birds which is why the House Sparrows were so badly affectd so early but has now spread around the countryside.

    The same effect is being seen in Europe and the Germans have been taking the petrol additive idea very seriously. It makes more sense in this instance than climate change or pesticides which are the more normal suspects. Particularly as pesticide use has been declining just as the insect populations has been collapsing.

    For me it is a very good reason to be looking forward to the end of the mass use of ICEs
    It's not something that I have looked at, but I agree that insect populations are radically down. The bug splattered windscreens of my youth are history.

    In another thread linkage in our interconnected world, it is perhaps a further reason to phase out the ICE engine. EVs don't need unleaded petrol.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,125

    Good morning all.


    Sorry, but I don't follow TSE's thinking.

    Labour does better among renters than owner occupiers, so why would turning renters into owner occupiers be to our advantage?
    The buggers will just start reading the Mail and voting Tory!

    Yes, that's the long term reason I think Starmer's plans to build more houses will go the same way as Johnson's.

    The medium term reason is the power of the oligopoly of housebuilders, that no=one has seriously proposed breaking up.

    And the short-term reason is the power of the NIMBY vote, that you see every time a Labour MP opposes a development in his own constituency.

    I'll be happy to be proved wrong, but a naturally risk-averse triangulator without any fixed principles isn't the man to stand up to these hugely powerful forces.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,471
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Beautiful on the Primrose Hill frontier today

    A quite good Times article (££) on the overwhelming migration coming Europe’s way:


    “World on the move: my journey across the Alps with the migrants fleeing Africa”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/829fef16-015a-11ee-91d8-175820cfdf88?shareToken=1646155852e6cbf3b77a2236fc013996

    The rightward swing in many European countries is surely an early reaction to this? Racist Brexit Britain is the outlier - possibly the most tolerant large country in Europe, and swinging left at the next election. For now

    To link in with the other theme on this thread, global warming and its consequences will cause a lot of environmental refugees, and exacerbate other social and political tensions.

    One return long haul flight produces much the same carbon in the atmosphere as 4 years driving for the average ICE car. Think about putting that in your next puff piece for the travel industry.

    It's an interconnected world.
    SOMEBODY has to do the Free Luxury Travel, with all the environmental guilt that entails. You should thank me for volunteering to shoulder the burden, so you can get to stay in Leicester, exulting in your moral superiority
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Even if there was a valid point about not recovering sufficiently from prior low spells, it's telling that these companies still feel the need to included blatant untruths in their messaging about what has happened recently. Yet another industry that knows it can do whatever the f*ck it wants.

    @SouthWestWater
    A hosepipe ban means we can safeguard water supplies following limited & inconsistent rainfall over past months

    We know that Temporary Use Bans/Hosepipe Bans can be confusing & worrying, so we've got a guide to explain what it means & how it affects you

    @SpaJw
    This is simply not true. We’ve had the eighth wettest October-April in the South West in the last 133 years. The Environment Agency confirms it. https://gov.uk/government/publications/water-situation-local-area-reports/devon-and-cornwall-water-situation-april-2023-summary

    @SouthWestWater
    The National Drought Group which is headed by the Environment Agency have classified Devon and Cornwall as being in drought, even with the rainfall it has not been sufficient to recharge the larger reservoirs from their lowest ever levels caused by 2022's unprecedented dry spell.

    @SpaJw
    It is simply not true to say that rainfall has been limited and inconsistent. That you were unable to capture the abundancy of rain we have had over the last few months is an entirely separate issue. Do not gaslight us.

    https://twitter.com/SpaJw/status/1664602510043103232

    That’s me - and it makes me so furious. The gaslighting by a company that has failed consistently to invest in better water capture and management is an absolute scandal. We are heading to major shortages this summer after the eighth wettest autumn/winter/spring since records began. It’s just not good enough.

    I was joking with someone a few weeks ago that the good thing about the really wet start to the year was at least we would be spared the endless moaning and threat about the need for hosepipe bans. How naiive I was.

    We have sufficient water resource in this country. We shouldn't find ourselves in this situation, and though there's plenty of blame to spread around, lies about there not being enough rain are infuriating.

    We do not treat water like the precious resource it is in this country. We just assume it will always be there and we do not have to do anything much to make sure we always have enough. It's the kind of complacency that has cost this country dear in so many areas. I find it so aggravating!!!

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,575
    Fishing said:

    Good morning all.


    Sorry, but I don't follow TSE's thinking.

    Labour does better among renters than owner occupiers, so why would turning renters into owner occupiers be to our advantage?
    The buggers will just start reading the Mail and voting Tory!

    Yes, that's the long term reason I think Starmer's plans to build more houses will go the same way as Johnson's.

    The medium term reason is the power of the oligopoly of housebuilders, that no=one has seriously proposed breaking up.

    And the short-term reason is the power of the NIMBY vote, that you see every time a Labour MP opposes a development in his own constituency.

    I'll be happy to be proved wrong, but a naturally risk-averse triangulator without any fixed principles isn't the man to stand up to these hugely powerful forces.
    Boris could occasionally be bold, and he has a massive majority - that should have been enough to fix the issues with his initial proposals, rather than just give up entirely and pretend the problem doesn't exist. Opportunity squandered.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,471
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Beautiful on the Primrose Hill frontier today

    A quite good Times article (££) on the overwhelming migration coming Europe’s way:


    “World on the move: my journey across the Alps with the migrants fleeing Africa”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/829fef16-015a-11ee-91d8-175820cfdf88?shareToken=1646155852e6cbf3b77a2236fc013996

    The rightward swing in many European countries is surely an early reaction to this? Racist Brexit Britain is the outlier - possibly the most tolerant large country in Europe, and swinging left at the next election. For now

    I’ve come to realise that your problem lies in spending so little time in the U.K. You simply don’t understand it, it’s people, or it’s politics. Surely there must be something you can post about with accuracy?
    Are you honestly claiming there is no connection between the migrant crisis on Europe’s borders and in Europe’s cities, and the rise in right wing populist anti-migration parties, in mainland Europe?

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,325
    ohnotnow said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Still awaiting the "hottest day of the year."
    12°C and overcast.

    25 degrees here yesterday at one point.
    Pretty pleasant in Yorkshire, too.
    But the west of the country has had by far the best of the weather this week.
    Its been noticably cool in Lincolnshire this year so far, especially at night. I am noticing it because of moth trapping (I wonder how Marquee Mark is finding it down in Devont on that score?) and I have not had a single night above 10 degrees so far in 2023. A couple of nights ago we were down at 5 degrees. I know it will warm up but I wish it would hurry up.
    There’s a noticeable shortage of insects this year. I think I’ve seen no more than a few butterflies, although we’ve had quite a few bees refreshing or washing themselves in out bird-bath.
    And the blue-tits which nested in our nest box laid eight eggs but only managed to get two chicks to fledge.
    The insect collapse really is noticeable sadly.

    I am not sure it is a widespread or accepted idea as yet but I am firmly of the opinion that it dates to the replacement of lead in petrol with benzene and MTBE. Back in 2000 when there was a rapid decline in House Sparrow populations in the UK one of the leading experts on the bird identified the lead replacement additives as being a possible cause. But he was primarily looking at direct poisoning of the birds whereas I think the effect has been far more insidious. We have seen a massive collapse in insect populations and of course that has a knock on effect on all those birds which rely on insects for diet. It started with urban birds which is why the House Sparrows were so badly affectd so early but has now spread around the countryside.

    The same effect is being seen in Europe and the Germans have been taking the petrol additive idea very seriously. It makes more sense in this instance than climate change or pesticides which are the more normal suspects. Particularly as pesticide use has been declining just as the insect populations has been collapsing.

    For me it is a very good reason to be looking forward to the end of the mass use of ICEs
    Can't remember where I read it now - but someone was talking about their house in rural France. In years gone by they had to raise their voice towards sunset to be heard over the noise of the insects and birds. Now they hear barely a cheep or a buzz.
    Loads of bird life here. As I sit on my terrace now (18 degrees, sunny with a clear blue sky) I can hear birds chirping all around. It starts with the dawn chorus at around 4:30 am and continues until dark. It is lovely having this day long musical background.A nest of blackbirds under the eaves has just sent its fledglings off into the big wide world. They made a terrible racket which we could hear in our living room though it was lovely following their progress. Loads of swallows here too. I'm hoping we get house martins too.

    There is a bird reserve nearby which probably also helps.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,471
    It would be interesting to guess which PB-er has the biggest/smallest carbon footprint. I accept I must be a prime contender for biggest. In an average year I can easily do 30 flights, often long haul.

    However I no longer own or drive a car, I live in a one bed flat, I use public transport 90% of the time - on land

    That’s quite a lot of offset

  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,471
    ohnotnow said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Still awaiting the "hottest day of the year."
    12°C and overcast.

    25 degrees here yesterday at one point.
    Pretty pleasant in Yorkshire, too.
    But the west of the country has had by far the best of the weather this week.
    Its been noticably cool in Lincolnshire this year so far, especially at night. I am noticing it because of moth trapping (I wonder how Marquee Mark is finding it down in Devont on that score?) and I have not had a single night above 10 degrees so far in 2023. A couple of nights ago we were down at 5 degrees. I know it will warm up but I wish it would hurry up.
    There’s a noticeable shortage of insects this year. I think I’ve seen no more than a few butterflies, although we’ve had quite a few bees refreshing or washing themselves in out bird-bath.
    And the blue-tits which nested in our nest box laid eight eggs but only managed to get two chicks to fledge.
    The insect collapse really is noticeable sadly.

    I am not sure it is a widespread or accepted idea as yet but I am firmly of the opinion that it dates to the replacement of lead in petrol with benzene and MTBE. Back in 2000 when there was a rapid decline in House Sparrow populations in the UK one of the leading experts on the bird identified the lead replacement additives as being a possible cause. But he was primarily looking at direct poisoning of the birds whereas I think the effect has been far more insidious. We have seen a massive collapse in insect populations and of course that has a knock on effect on all those birds which rely on insects for diet. It started with urban birds which is why the House Sparrows were so badly affectd so early but has now spread around the countryside.

    The same effect is being seen in Europe and the Germans have been taking the petrol additive idea very seriously. It makes more sense in this instance than climate change or pesticides which are the more normal suspects. Particularly as pesticide use has been declining just as the insect populations has been collapsing.

    For me it is a very good reason to be looking forward to the end of the mass use of ICEs
    Can't remember where I read it now - but someone was talking about their house in rural France. In years gone by they had to raise their voice towards sunset to be heard over the noise of the insects and birds. Now they hear barely a cheep or a buzz.
    It is really obvious - everywhere. In Majorca last week people were discussing the decline in mosquitoes
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,391
    Leon said:

    It would be interesting to guess which PB-er has the biggest/smallest carbon footprint. I accept I must be a prime contender for biggest. In an average year I can easily do 30 flights, often long haul.

    However I no longer own or drive a car, I live in a one bed flat, I use public transport 90% of the time - on land

    That’s quite a lot of offset

    No car, no commuting, no holidays, but Deliveroo once a day so that's a bike for a mile or two.
  • WestieWestie Posts: 426
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer accused of preparing for class war if Labour win the next general election by shifting public spending on GPs, libraries and bin collections from richer to poorer areas. Equality laws would also be extended to include social class
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12156193/Secret-plan-Starmer-hit-cutting-public-services.html

    But when Osborne said poor people shouldn't have kids and when Sunak boasted about diverting money to richer areas that wasn't class war at all. The Tories love class war, they just don't want the other side to fight it.
    It's an oldie but a favourite....

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2022/jul/11/rishi-sunak-criticised-footage-no-working-class-friends-video
    To be fair, it isn't entirely surprising that teenage Rishi had no working class friends when attending one of the poshest schools in the country, with prosperous middle class parents.

    I suspect that the same would be true in reverse at any gritty inner city Comprehensive.
    Yes, in general I think we shouldn't criticise anyone for their childhood experiences, which are largely determined by parents and others. A more reasonable question is whether one has done anything to broaden one's experience after growing up. My very traditional posh dad who grew up in Sussex and went to prep school and Winchester chose on leaving school to spend a year helping to run a boys' club in Bermondsey, living with a local family (bath under the kitchen table to be dragged out and filled once a week). He wasn't boastful about it, just thought it was important to learn was real life was like for other sorts of people.

    He continued to vote Tory until the 70s, but was very much a one-nation type who found Heath and even more Thatcher to be alien types, so he switched to Liberal. In a very different context, I think a lot of Blue Wall voters today are migrating similarly.
    Being an MP alone brings you into more regular contact with working class people through canvassing them, holding surgeries with them etc. Being a PM too through visits and campaigning.

    Had Rishi stayed in finance and hedge funds he could have never really come into many working class people at all, having gone from Winchester to Oxford, Stanford and Goldman Sachs and having a high income and living in expensive areas with his wealthy wife.
    Easy enough for almost any student at Oxford university to meet working class people if they want to. At least Sunak didn't go to New College.

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer accused of preparing for class war if Labour win the next general election by shifting public spending on GPs, libraries and bin collections from richer to poorer areas. Equality laws would also be extended to include social class
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12156193/Secret-plan-Starmer-hit-cutting-public-services.html

    But when Osborne said poor people shouldn't have kids and when Sunak boasted about diverting money to richer areas that wasn't class war at all. The Tories love class war, they just don't want the other side to fight it.
    That is 100% true. They are full of class hatred too. When the other side gets its act together to fight back, the Tories will be finished. And then some.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    edited June 2023
    Westie said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer accused of preparing for class war if Labour win the next general election by shifting public spending on GPs, libraries and bin collections from richer to poorer areas. Equality laws would also be extended to include social class
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12156193/Secret-plan-Starmer-hit-cutting-public-services.html

    But when Osborne said poor people shouldn't have kids and when Sunak boasted about diverting money to richer areas that wasn't class war at all. The Tories love class war, they just don't want the other side to fight it.
    It's an oldie but a favourite....

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2022/jul/11/rishi-sunak-criticised-footage-no-working-class-friends-video
    To be fair, it isn't entirely surprising that teenage Rishi had no working class friends when attending one of the poshest schools in the country, with prosperous middle class parents.

    I suspect that the same would be true in reverse at any gritty inner city Comprehensive.
    Yes, in general I think we shouldn't criticise anyone for their childhood experiences, which are largely determined by parents and others. A more reasonable question is whether one has done anything to broaden one's experience after growing up. My very traditional posh dad who grew up in Sussex and went to prep school and Winchester chose on leaving school to spend a year helping to run a boys' club in Bermondsey, living with a local family (bath under the kitchen table to be dragged out and filled once a week). He wasn't boastful about it, just thought it was important to learn was real life was like for other sorts of people.

    He continued to vote Tory until the 70s, but was very much a one-nation type who found Heath and even more Thatcher to be alien types, so he switched to Liberal. In a very different context, I think a lot of Blue Wall voters today are migrating similarly.
    Being an MP alone brings you into more regular contact with working class people through canvassing them, holding surgeries with them etc. Being a PM too through visits and campaigning.

    Had Rishi stayed in finance and hedge funds he could have never really come into many working class people at all, having gone from Winchester to Oxford, Stanford and Goldman Sachs and having a high income and living in expensive areas with his wealthy wife.
    Easy enough for almost any student at Oxford university to meet working class people if they want to. At least Sunak didn't go to New College.

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer accused of preparing for class war if Labour win the next general election by shifting public spending on GPs, libraries and bin collections from richer to poorer areas. Equality laws would also be extended to include social class
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12156193/Secret-plan-Starmer-hit-cutting-public-services.html

    But when Osborne said poor people shouldn't have kids and when Sunak boasted about diverting money to richer areas that wasn't class war at all. The Tories love class war, they just don't want the other side to fight it.
    That is 100% true. They are full of class hatred too. When the other side gets its act together to fight back, the Tories will be finished. And then some.
    If you have got into Oxford university you are pretty likely to now be middle class, even if you grew up in a working class family.

    Meeting the porters or thanking waiting staff and cleaners for a few minutes a day doesn't really count as engaging regularly with working class people
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 701

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Still awaiting the "hottest day of the year."
    12°C and overcast.

    25 degrees here yesterday at one point.
    Pretty pleasant in Yorkshire, too.
    But the west of the country has had by far the best of the weather this week.
    Its been noticably cool in Lincolnshire this year so far, especially at night. I am noticing it because of moth trapping (I wonder how Marquee Mark is finding it down in Devont on that score?) and I have not had a single night above 10 degrees so far in 2023. A couple of nights ago we were down at 5 degrees. I know it will warm up but I wish it would hurry up.
    There’s a noticeable shortage of insects this year. I think I’ve seen no more than a few butterflies, although we’ve had quite a few bees refreshing or washing themselves in out bird-bath.
    And the blue-tits which nested in our nest box laid eight eggs but only managed to get two chicks to fledge.
    The insect collapse really is noticeable sadly.

    I am not sure it is a widespread or accepted idea as yet but I am firmly of the opinion that it dates to the replacement of lead in petrol with benzene and MTBE. Back in 2000 when there was a rapid decline in House Sparrow populations in the UK one of the leading experts on the bird identified the lead replacement additives as being a possible cause. But he was primarily looking at direct poisoning of the birds whereas I think the effect has been far more insidious. We have seen a massive collapse in insect populations and of course that has a knock on effect on all those birds which rely on insects for diet. It started with urban birds which is why the House Sparrows were so badly affectd so early but has now spread around the countryside.

    The same effect is being seen in Europe and the Germans have been taking the petrol additive idea very seriously. It makes more sense in this instance than climate change or pesticides which are the more normal suspects. Particularly as pesticide use has been declining just as the insect populations has been collapsing.

    For me it is a very good reason to be looking forward to the end of the mass use of ICEs
    Some friends who keep a number of bee hives locally discovered all their bees had died earlier this year. A friend alerted them to a swarm a few weeks later and they have managed to get a new colony.

    I've noticed fewer birds this year although there are still a lot of pigeons.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    Westie said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer accused of preparing for class war if Labour win the next general election by shifting public spending on GPs, libraries and bin collections from richer to poorer areas. Equality laws would also be extended to include social class
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12156193/Secret-plan-Starmer-hit-cutting-public-services.html

    But when Osborne said poor people shouldn't have kids and when Sunak boasted about diverting money to richer areas that wasn't class war at all. The Tories love class war, they just don't want the other side to fight it.
    It's an oldie but a favourite....

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2022/jul/11/rishi-sunak-criticised-footage-no-working-class-friends-video
    To be fair, it isn't entirely surprising that teenage Rishi had no working class friends when attending one of the poshest schools in the country, with prosperous middle class parents.

    I suspect that the same would be true in reverse at any gritty inner city Comprehensive.
    Yes, in general I think we shouldn't criticise anyone for their childhood experiences, which are largely determined by parents and others. A more reasonable question is whether one has done anything to broaden one's experience after growing up. My very traditional posh dad who grew up in Sussex and went to prep school and Winchester chose on leaving school to spend a year helping to run a boys' club in Bermondsey, living with a local family (bath under the kitchen table to be dragged out and filled once a week). He wasn't boastful about it, just thought it was important to learn was real life was like for other sorts of people.

    He continued to vote Tory until the 70s, but was very much a one-nation type who found Heath and even more Thatcher to be alien types, so he switched to Liberal. In a very different context, I think a lot of Blue Wall voters today are migrating similarly.
    Being an MP alone brings you into more regular contact with working class people through canvassing them, holding surgeries with them etc. Being a PM too through visits and campaigning.

    Had Rishi stayed in finance and hedge funds he could have never really come into many working class people at all, having gone from Winchester to Oxford, Stanford and Goldman Sachs and having a high income and living in expensive areas with his wealthy wife.
    Easy enough for almost any student at Oxford university to meet working class people if they want to. At least Sunak didn't go to New College.

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer accused of preparing for class war if Labour win the next general election by shifting public spending on GPs, libraries and bin collections from richer to poorer areas. Equality laws would also be extended to include social class
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12156193/Secret-plan-Starmer-hit-cutting-public-services.html

    But when Osborne said poor people shouldn't have kids and when Sunak boasted about diverting money to richer areas that wasn't class war at all. The Tories love class war, they just don't want the other side to fight it.
    That is 100% true. They are full of class hatred too. When the other side gets its act together to fight back, the Tories will be finished. And then some.
    They won't, not least as the rich and higher earners will be more firmly behind the Tories than now
  • WestieWestie Posts: 426
    HYUFD said:

    Westie said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer accused of preparing for class war if Labour win the next general election by shifting public spending on GPs, libraries and bin collections from richer to poorer areas. Equality laws would also be extended to include social class
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12156193/Secret-plan-Starmer-hit-cutting-public-services.html

    But when Osborne said poor people shouldn't have kids and when Sunak boasted about diverting money to richer areas that wasn't class war at all. The Tories love class war, they just don't want the other side to fight it.
    It's an oldie but a favourite....

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2022/jul/11/rishi-sunak-criticised-footage-no-working-class-friends-video
    To be fair, it isn't entirely surprising that teenage Rishi had no working class friends when attending one of the poshest schools in the country, with prosperous middle class parents.

    I suspect that the same would be true in reverse at any gritty inner city Comprehensive.
    Yes, in general I think we shouldn't criticise anyone for their childhood experiences, which are largely determined by parents and others. A more reasonable question is whether one has done anything to broaden one's experience after growing up. My very traditional posh dad who grew up in Sussex and went to prep school and Winchester chose on leaving school to spend a year helping to run a boys' club in Bermondsey, living with a local family (bath under the kitchen table to be dragged out and filled once a week). He wasn't boastful about it, just thought it was important to learn was real life was like for other sorts of people.

    He continued to vote Tory until the 70s, but was very much a one-nation type who found Heath and even more Thatcher to be alien types, so he switched to Liberal. In a very different context, I think a lot of Blue Wall voters today are migrating similarly.
    Being an MP alone brings you into more regular contact with working class people through canvassing them, holding surgeries with them etc. Being a PM too through visits and campaigning.

    Had Rishi stayed in finance and hedge funds he could have never really come into many working class people at all, having gone from Winchester to Oxford, Stanford and Goldman Sachs and having a high income and living in expensive areas with his wealthy wife.
    Easy enough for almost any student at Oxford university to meet working class people if they want to. At least Sunak didn't go to New College.

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer accused of preparing for class war if Labour win the next general election by shifting public spending on GPs, libraries and bin collections from richer to poorer areas. Equality laws would also be extended to include social class
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12156193/Secret-plan-Starmer-hit-cutting-public-services.html

    But when Osborne said poor people shouldn't have kids and when Sunak boasted about diverting money to richer areas that wasn't class war at all. The Tories love class war, they just don't want the other side to fight it.
    That is 100% true. They are full of class hatred too. When the other side gets its act together to fight back, the Tories will be finished. And then some.
    If you have got into Oxford you are pretty likely to now be middle class, even if you grew up in a working class family.

    Meeting the porters or thanking waiting staff and cleaners for a few minutes a day doesn't really count as engaging regularly with working class people
    That's obvious. I meant it's easy enough to meet some properly. Some Oxford university students are working class, even nowadays. Not many, but some. And Oxford is nowhere near as culturally dominated by the university as Cambridge is. If you live in a city and get out and about, it's easy enough to meet people.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    edited June 2023
    Westie said:

    HYUFD said:

    Westie said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer accused of preparing for class war if Labour win the next general election by shifting public spending on GPs, libraries and bin collections from richer to poorer areas. Equality laws would also be extended to include social class
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12156193/Secret-plan-Starmer-hit-cutting-public-services.html

    But when Osborne said poor people shouldn't have kids and when Sunak boasted about diverting money to richer areas that wasn't class war at all. The Tories love class war, they just don't want the other side to fight it.
    It's an oldie but a favourite....

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2022/jul/11/rishi-sunak-criticised-footage-no-working-class-friends-video
    To be fair, it isn't entirely surprising that teenage Rishi had no working class friends when attending one of the poshest schools in the country, with prosperous middle class parents.

    I suspect that the same would be true in reverse at any gritty inner city Comprehensive.
    Yes, in general I think we shouldn't criticise anyone for their childhood experiences, which are largely determined by parents and others. A more reasonable question is whether one has done anything to broaden one's experience after growing up. My very traditional posh dad who grew up in Sussex and went to prep school and Winchester chose on leaving school to spend a year helping to run a boys' club in Bermondsey, living with a local family (bath under the kitchen table to be dragged out and filled once a week). He wasn't boastful about it, just thought it was important to learn was real life was like for other sorts of people.

    He continued to vote Tory until the 70s, but was very much a one-nation type who found Heath and even more Thatcher to be alien types, so he switched to Liberal. In a very different context, I think a lot of Blue Wall voters today are migrating similarly.
    Being an MP alone brings you into more regular contact with working class people through canvassing them, holding surgeries with them etc. Being a PM too through visits and campaigning.

    Had Rishi stayed in finance and hedge funds he could have never really come into many working class people at all, having gone from Winchester to Oxford, Stanford and Goldman Sachs and having a high income and living in expensive areas with his wealthy wife.
    Easy enough for almost any student at Oxford university to meet working class people if they want to. At least Sunak didn't go to New College.

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer accused of preparing for class war if Labour win the next general election by shifting public spending on GPs, libraries and bin collections from richer to poorer areas. Equality laws would also be extended to include social class
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12156193/Secret-plan-Starmer-hit-cutting-public-services.html

    But when Osborne said poor people shouldn't have kids and when Sunak boasted about diverting money to richer areas that wasn't class war at all. The Tories love class war, they just don't want the other side to fight it.
    That is 100% true. They are full of class hatred too. When the other side gets its act together to fight back, the Tories will be finished. And then some.
    If you have got into Oxford you are pretty likely to now be middle class, even if you grew up in a working class family.

    Meeting the porters or thanking waiting staff and cleaners for a few minutes a day doesn't really count as engaging regularly with working class people
    That's obvious. I meant it's easy enough to meet some properly. Some Oxford university students are working class, even nowadays. Not many, but some. And Oxford is nowhere near as culturally dominated by the university as Cambridge is. If you live in a city and get out and about, it's easy enough to meet people.
    They aren't. Unless they go on to work on the shop or factory floor or become an electrician or plumber or work on a building site or drive a taxi or bus or train they will never be working class again once they got into Oxford, even if they grew up in a working class family.

    Most of the working class bits of Oxford are in and around Cowley, miles from the colleges, especially the poshest ones like Christ Church and Magdalen and Balliol
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,471

    Leon said:

    It would be interesting to guess which PB-er has the biggest/smallest carbon footprint. I accept I must be a prime contender for biggest. In an average year I can easily do 30 flights, often long haul.

    However I no longer own or drive a car, I live in a one bed flat, I use public transport 90% of the time - on land

    That’s quite a lot of offset

    No car, no commuting, no holidays, but Deliveroo once a day so that's a bike for a mile or two.
    That’s an impressively small footprint. You may be the winner!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,785
    Too much to hope for that he stays?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,956
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Still awaiting the "hottest day of the year."
    12°C and overcast.

    25 degrees here yesterday at one point.
    Pretty pleasant in Yorkshire, too.
    But the west of the country has had by far the best of the weather this week.
    Its been noticably cool in Lincolnshire this year so far, especially at night. I am noticing it because of moth trapping (I wonder how Marquee Mark is finding it down in Devont on that score?) and I have not had a single night above 10 degrees so far in 2023. A couple of nights ago we were down at 5 degrees. I know it will warm up but I wish it would hurry up.
    There’s a noticeable shortage of insects this year. I think I’ve seen no more than a few butterflies, although we’ve had quite a few bees refreshing or washing themselves in out bird-bath.
    And the blue-tits which nested in our nest box laid eight eggs but only managed to get two chicks to fledge.
    The insect collapse really is noticeable sadly.

    I am not sure it is a widespread or accepted idea as yet but I am firmly of the opinion that it dates to the replacement of lead in petrol with benzene and MTBE. Back in 2000 when there was a rapid decline in House Sparrow populations in the UK one of the leading experts on the bird identified the lead replacement additives as being a possible cause. But he was primarily looking at direct poisoning of the birds whereas I think the effect has been far more insidious. We have seen a massive collapse in insect populations and of course that has a knock on effect on all those birds which rely on insects for diet. It started with urban birds which is why the House Sparrows were so badly affectd so early but has now spread around the countryside.

    The same effect is being seen in Europe and the Germans have been taking the petrol additive idea very seriously. It makes more sense in this instance than climate change or pesticides which are the more normal suspects. Particularly as pesticide use has been declining just as the insect populations has been collapsing.

    For me it is a very good reason to be looking forward to the end of the mass use of ICEs
    It's not something that I have looked at, but I agree that insect populations are radically down. The bug splattered windscreens of my youth are history.

    In another thread linkage in our interconnected world, it is perhaps a further reason to phase out the ICE engine. EVs don't need unleaded petrol.
    I don’t know whether they are down or not but my windscreen and bumper were pebbeldashed by dead insects after a run out to hamsterley woods and back last weekend.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,471
    Er, how did we miss this?


    ‘At a historic NASA briefing on UFOs — “unidentified anomalous phenomena” (UAP) in government parlance — a key Defense Department official made a striking disclosure. Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, director of a new UAP analysis office, stated that U.S. military personnel are observing “metallic orbs” “all over the world.”

    An image, along with two brief videos of such objects are now publicly available.

    According to Kirkpatrick, spherical objects account for the largest proportion — nearly half — of all UAP reports received by his office. Critically, some of these objects are capable of “very interesting apparent maneuvers.”
    To be sure, rigorous scientific analysis may ultimately identify a prosaic explanation for such observations. In the meantime, however, such “metallic orbs” are prima facie evidence of extraordinary technology. After all, how would spheres, lacking wings or apparent forms of propulsion, execute “maneuvers” of any kind?’

    https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/4030026-us-military-has-been-observing-metallic-orbs-making-extraordinary-maneuvers/
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Keir needs to put these water company CEOs into prison.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,808
    Leon said:

    Er, how did we miss this?


    ‘At a historic NASA briefing on UFOs — “unidentified anomalous phenomena” (UAP) in government parlance — a key Defense Department official made a striking disclosure. Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, director of a new UAP analysis office, stated that U.S. military personnel are observing “metallic orbs” “all over the world.”

    An image, along with two brief videos of such objects are now publicly available.

    According to Kirkpatrick, spherical objects account for the largest proportion — nearly half — of all UAP reports received by his office. Critically, some of these objects are capable of “very interesting apparent maneuvers.”
    To be sure, rigorous scientific analysis may ultimately identify a prosaic explanation for such observations. In the meantime, however, such “metallic orbs” are prima facie evidence of extraordinary technology. After all, how would spheres, lacking wings or apparent forms of propulsion, execute “maneuvers” of any kind?’

    https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/4030026-us-military-has-been-observing-metallic-orbs-making-extraordinary-maneuvers/

    Maybe something’s coming to rescue us from ourselves. Or maybe not.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,443
    kle4 said:

    Even if there was a valid point about not recovering sufficiently from prior low spells, it's telling that these companies still feel the need to included blatant untruths in their messaging about what has happened recently. Yet another industry that knows it can do whatever the f*ck it wants.

    @SouthWestWater
    A hosepipe ban means we can safeguard water supplies following limited & inconsistent rainfall over past months

    We know that Temporary Use Bans/Hosepipe Bans can be confusing & worrying, so we've got a guide to explain what it means & how it affects you

    @SpaJw
    This is simply not true. We’ve had the eighth wettest October-April in the South West in the last 133 years. The Environment Agency confirms it. https://gov.uk/government/publications/water-situation-local-area-reports/devon-and-cornwall-water-situation-april-2023-summary

    @SouthWestWater
    The National Drought Group which is headed by the Environment Agency have classified Devon and Cornwall as being in drought, even with the rainfall it has not been sufficient to recharge the larger reservoirs from their lowest ever levels caused by 2022's unprecedented dry spell.

    @SpaJw
    It is simply not true to say that rainfall has been limited and inconsistent. That you were unable to capture the abundancy of rain we have had over the last few months is an entirely separate issue. Do not gaslight us.


    https://twitter.com/SpaJw/status/1664602510043103232

    Meh.

    It’s a junior social media flunky with no appropriate oversight

    Cock up not conspiracy
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668

    kle4 said:

    Even if there was a valid point about not recovering sufficiently from prior low spells, it's telling that these companies still feel the need to included blatant untruths in their messaging about what has happened recently. Yet another industry that knows it can do whatever the f*ck it wants.

    @SouthWestWater
    A hosepipe ban means we can safeguard water supplies following limited & inconsistent rainfall over past months

    We know that Temporary Use Bans/Hosepipe Bans can be confusing & worrying, so we've got a guide to explain what it means & how it affects you

    @SpaJw
    This is simply not true. We’ve had the eighth wettest October-April in the South West in the last 133 years. The Environment Agency confirms it. https://gov.uk/government/publications/water-situation-local-area-reports/devon-and-cornwall-water-situation-april-2023-summary

    @SouthWestWater
    The National Drought Group which is headed by the Environment Agency have classified Devon and Cornwall as being in drought, even with the rainfall it has not been sufficient to recharge the larger reservoirs from their lowest ever levels caused by 2022's unprecedented dry spell.

    @SpaJw
    It is simply not true to say that rainfall has been limited and inconsistent. That you were unable to capture the abundancy of rain we have had over the last few months is an entirely separate issue. Do not gaslight us.

    https://twitter.com/SpaJw/status/1664602510043103232

    That’s me - and it makes me so furious. The gaslighting by a company that has failed consistently to invest in better water capture and management is an absolute scandal. We are heading to major shortages this summer after the eighth wettest autumn/winter/spring since records began. It’s just not good enough.

    Good on you for calling it out. It incenses me.

    That said, to fix it will require a lot more investment in reservoirs and new water infrastructure. It's the one thing that doesn't seem to change very much, even as the population in the south grows.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668
    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Still awaiting the "hottest day of the year."
    12°C and overcast.

    25 degrees here yesterday at one point.
    Pretty pleasant in Yorkshire, too.
    But the west of the country has had by far the best of the weather this week.
    Its been noticably cool in Lincolnshire this year so far, especially at night. I am noticing it because of moth trapping (I wonder how Marquee Mark is finding it down in Devont on that score?) and I have not had a single night above 10 degrees so far in 2023. A couple of nights ago we were down at 5 degrees. I know it will warm up but I wish it would hurry up.
    There’s a noticeable shortage of insects this year. I think I’ve seen no more than a few butterflies, although we’ve had quite a few bees refreshing or washing themselves in out bird-bath.
    And the blue-tits which nested in our nest box laid eight eggs but only managed to get two chicks to fledge.
    The insect collapse really is noticeable sadly.

    I am not sure it is a widespread or accepted idea as yet but I am firmly of the opinion that it dates to the replacement of lead in petrol with benzene and MTBE. Back in 2000 when there was a rapid decline in House Sparrow populations in the UK one of the leading experts on the bird identified the lead replacement additives as being a possible cause. But he was primarily looking at direct poisoning of the birds whereas I think the effect has been far more insidious. We have seen a massive collapse in insect populations and of course that has a knock on effect on all those birds which rely on insects for diet. It started with urban birds which is why the House Sparrows were so badly affectd so early but has now spread around the countryside.

    The same effect is being seen in Europe and the Germans have been taking the petrol additive idea very seriously. It makes more sense in this instance than climate change or pesticides which are the more normal suspects. Particularly as pesticide use has been declining just as the insect populations has been collapsing.

    For me it is a very good reason to be looking forward to the end of the mass use of ICEs
    Can't remember where I read it now - but someone was talking about their house in rural France. In years gone by they had to raise their voice towards sunset to be heard over the noise of the insects and birds. Now they hear barely a cheep or a buzz.
    It is really obvious - everywhere. In Majorca last week people were discussing the decline in mosquitoes
    I welcome extinction if the mosquitoes go down with me.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,943

    Keir needs to put these water company CEOs into prison.

    Why?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,443
    Leon said:

    It would be interesting to guess which PB-er has the biggest/smallest carbon footprint. I accept I must be a prime contender for biggest. In an average year I can easily do 30 flights, often long haul.

    However I no longer own or drive a car, I live in a one bed flat, I use public transport 90% of the time - on land

    That’s quite a lot of offset

    Let’s not have the who’s gold card is bigger than your’s debate again.

    You’ll only lose and it’s embarrassing
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668

    rcs1000 said:

    Yes, ICE cars will always have the edge when it comes to range. But there's diminishing utility here. It's dead easy to add another 100 miles to a petrol car's range. But how much better is a car that goes 700 miles between a top-up and one that goes 800 miles?

    I reckon you could do over a hundred thousand miles in one of these


    It would interesting to look at the range equation, since you are hauling more weight to get the range….

    EVs are already down to 15 minute top ups every so often - the trick is *not* to drive to empty and fill to 100%.
    It's all about planning your trip.

    My Leaf is great for local trips, and I usually change it once a week or so from about 20% to 80% on my home charger.

    Every now and again though, I have to make a longer trip down to Oxford. In theory, the car could just about make it there and back, but it would be pretty tight. So what I do is charge it to 100% at home before travelling, then stop for half an hour at the rapid charging hub near Banbury for a coffee and a top-up. This adds enough range to make it comfortably the rest of the way there and back home again.
    As I said on the previous thread I am really keen to get an EV but it is pointless until I can get pretty much anywhere in the UK on a single tank/charge as I can with my diesel. I don't use cars much for pleasure - I don't actually enjoy driving at all and am not particularly good at it. It is a tool. A comfy seat to get me from A to B with the least hassle possible and in the most effective time.

    When an EV can get me 400+ miles without having to stop and I can pick up a second hand one at a reasonable price (I have never bought a new car in my life) then I will be looking at them seriously. Until then they are an impractical and ineffective tool for me.
    Same. And I can only imagine there are millions in the same position.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,471

    Leon said:

    It would be interesting to guess which PB-er has the biggest/smallest carbon footprint. I accept I must be a prime contender for biggest. In an average year I can easily do 30 flights, often long haul.

    However I no longer own or drive a car, I live in a one bed flat, I use public transport 90% of the time - on land

    That’s quite a lot of offset

    Let’s not have the who’s gold card is bigger than your’s debate again.

    You’ll only lose and it’s embarrassing
    I’ve already moved on to aliens


    The revelation that NASA and the Pentagon believe we are being buzzed by 3-metre wide metallic orbs exhibiting remarkable manoeuvres at up-to-Mach 2 - and this has been happening for decades all over the world - is, I suggest, even more interesting than Philip Schofield
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    Keir needs to put these water company CEOs into prison.

    Why?
    For polluting our rivers.

    Then regulate them to death so they either work properly or hand back the keys and we can run these services properly.

    This country is a disgrace, the Tories have fucked it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    edited June 2023
    Man arrested for his T shirt slogan yesterday at the FA cup final charged under Public Order Act 1986 with 'displaying threatening or abusive writing likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress.'
    https://news.met.police.uk/news/man-charged-following-arrest-at-wembley-stadium-467925

    Just as well the police don't check PB regularly then!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,371
    HYUFD said:

    Man arrested for his T shirt slogan yesterday at the FA cup final charged under Public Order Act 1986 with 'displaying threatening or abusive writing likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress.'
    https://news.met.police.uk/news/man-charged-following-arrest-at-wembley-stadium-467925

    Just as well the police don't check PB regularly then!

    #PBfreespeech

    [Sorry, I'm trying to track PB's stance on free speech, hence the hashtag]
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,943
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It would be interesting to guess which PB-er has the biggest/smallest carbon footprint. I accept I must be a prime contender for biggest. In an average year I can easily do 30 flights, often long haul.

    However I no longer own or drive a car, I live in a one bed flat, I use public transport 90% of the time - on land

    That’s quite a lot of offset

    Let’s not have the who’s gold card is bigger than your’s debate again.

    You’ll only lose and it’s embarrassing
    I’ve already moved on to aliens


    The revelation that NASA and the Pentagon believe we are being buzzed by 3-metre wide metallic orbs exhibiting remarkable manoeuvres at up-to-Mach 2 - and this has been happening for decades all over the world - is, I suggest, even more interesting than Philip Schofield
    Blood Aliens. How bad must their carbon footprint be, doing all those miles across the galaxy to come and pollute our skies.

    Deport them to Rwanda!
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,940
    Leon said:

    It would be interesting to guess which PB-er has the biggest/smallest carbon footprint. I accept I must be a prime contender for biggest. In an average year I can easily do 30 flights, often long haul.

    However I no longer own or drive a car, I live in a one bed flat, I use public transport 90% of the time - on land

    That’s quite a lot of offset

    You have kids too.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,371
    Perun is up:

    This week: Escalation Strategy & Aid in Ukraine - How the West manages Russian nuclear threats and 'red lines'
    Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWKGYnO0Jf4
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,471

    Ok pb-ers, this is one of the images NASA can’t quite explain. There’s a video too. Moves quite fast. Shot in Mosul

    What is it? Drone? Balloon? Alien AI balloon drone?


  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,135
    edited June 2023
    The conundrum is how to appeal to prospective home owners (or how to get more of them owning, as you will) without doing things that mightily annoy the existing ones….
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855

    kle4 said:

    Even if there was a valid point about not recovering sufficiently from prior low spells, it's telling that these companies still feel the need to included blatant untruths in their messaging about what has happened recently. Yet another industry that knows it can do whatever the f*ck it wants.

    @SouthWestWater
    A hosepipe ban means we can safeguard water supplies following limited & inconsistent rainfall over past months

    We know that Temporary Use Bans/Hosepipe Bans can be confusing & worrying, so we've got a guide to explain what it means & how it affects you

    @SpaJw
    This is simply not true. We’ve had the eighth wettest October-April in the South West in the last 133 years. The Environment Agency confirms it. https://gov.uk/government/publications/water-situation-local-area-reports/devon-and-cornwall-water-situation-april-2023-summary

    @SouthWestWater
    The National Drought Group which is headed by the Environment Agency have classified Devon and Cornwall as being in drought, even with the rainfall it has not been sufficient to recharge the larger reservoirs from their lowest ever levels caused by 2022's unprecedented dry spell.

    @SpaJw
    It is simply not true to say that rainfall has been limited and inconsistent. That you were unable to capture the abundancy of rain we have had over the last few months is an entirely separate issue. Do not gaslight us.


    https://twitter.com/SpaJw/status/1664602510043103232

    Meh.

    It’s a junior social media flunky with no appropriate oversight

    Cock up not conspiracy
    No brief for water cos but to be scrupulously fair to them looking at one winter does not give a full picture. You really need to look back to last time reservoirs were at 100% and see what has happened since. We have had a series of unbelievably dry summers and seem to be embarking on another.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,443
    Miklosvar said:

    kle4 said:

    Even if there was a valid point about not recovering sufficiently from prior low spells, it's telling that these companies still feel the need to included blatant untruths in their messaging about what has happened recently. Yet another industry that knows it can do whatever the f*ck it wants.

    @SouthWestWater
    A hosepipe ban means we can safeguard water supplies following limited & inconsistent rainfall over past months

    We know that Temporary Use Bans/Hosepipe Bans can be confusing & worrying, so we've got a guide to explain what it means & how it affects you

    @SpaJw
    This is simply not true. We’ve had the eighth wettest October-April in the South West in the last 133 years. The Environment Agency confirms it. https://gov.uk/government/publications/water-situation-local-area-reports/devon-and-cornwall-water-situation-april-2023-summary

    @SouthWestWater
    The National Drought Group which is headed by the Environment Agency have classified Devon and Cornwall as being in drought, even with the rainfall it has not been sufficient to recharge the larger reservoirs from their lowest ever levels caused by 2022's unprecedented dry spell.

    @SpaJw
    It is simply not true to say that rainfall has been limited and inconsistent. That you were unable to capture the abundancy of rain we have had over the last few months is an entirely separate issue. Do not gaslight us.


    https://twitter.com/SpaJw/status/1664602510043103232

    Meh.

    It’s a junior social media flunky with no appropriate oversight

    Cock up not conspiracy
    No brief for water cos but to be scrupulously fair to them looking at one winter does not give a full picture. You really need to look back to last time reservoirs were at 100% and see what has happened since. We have had a series of unbelievably dry summers and seem to be embarking on another.
    That would be my assumption.

    It’s a classic stock and flow problem.

    Presumably there is a net gain in reserves over a wet period but where we end up depends on where we start
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668

    rcs1000 said:

    Yes, ICE cars will always have the edge when it comes to range. But there's diminishing utility here. It's dead easy to add another 100 miles to a petrol car's range. But how much better is a car that goes 700 miles between a top-up and one that goes 800 miles?

    I reckon you could do over a hundred thousand miles in one of these


    It would interesting to look at the range equation, since you are hauling more weight to get the range….

    EVs are already down to 15 minute top ups every so often - the trick is *not* to drive to empty and fill to 100%.
    It's all about planning your trip.

    My Leaf is great for local trips, and I usually change it once a week or so from about 20% to 80% on my home charger.

    Every now and again though, I have to make a longer trip down to Oxford. In theory, the car could just about make it there and back, but it would be pretty tight. So what I do is charge it to 100% at home before travelling, then stop for half an hour at the rapid charging hub near Banbury for a coffee and a top-up. This adds enough range to make it comfortably the rest of the way there and back home again.
    As I said on the previous thread I am really keen to get an EV but it is pointless until I can get pretty much anywhere in the UK on a single tank/charge as I can with my diesel. I don't use cars much for pleasure - I don't actually enjoy driving at all and am not particularly good at it. It is a tool. A comfy seat to get me from A to B with the least hassle possible and in the most effective time.

    When an EV can get me 400+ miles without having to stop and I can pick up a second hand one at a reasonable price (I have never bought a new car in my life) then I will be looking at them seriously. Until then they are an impractical and ineffective tool for me.
    Same. And I can only imagine there are mil
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Beautiful on the Primrose Hill frontier today

    A quite good Times article (££) on the overwhelming migration coming Europe’s way:


    “World on the move: my journey across the Alps with the migrants fleeing Africa”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/829fef16-015a-11ee-91d8-175820cfdf88?shareToken=1646155852e6cbf3b77a2236fc013996

    The rightward swing in many European countries is surely an early reaction to this? Racist Brexit Britain is the outlier - possibly the most tolerant large country in Europe, and swinging left at the next election. For now

    I’ve come to realise that your problem lies in spending so little time in the U.K. You simply don’t understand it, it’s people, or it’s politics. Surely there must be something you can post about with accuracy?
    Are you honestly claiming there is no connection between the migrant crisis on Europe’s borders and in Europe’s cities, and the rise in right wing populist anti-migration parties, in mainland Europe?

    That was a very sobering article.

    Either Europe's centrist parties get a grip on this issue or, eventually, we'll see European polities collapse into autocracy and dictatorship as they become overwhelmed with the problem.
  • Fishing said:

    Good morning all.


    Sorry, but I don't follow TSE's thinking.

    Labour does better among renters than owner occupiers, so why would turning renters into owner occupiers be to our advantage?
    The buggers will just start reading the Mail and voting Tory!

    Yes, that's the long term reason I think Starmer's plans to build more houses will go the same way as Johnson's.

    The medium term reason is the power of the oligopoly of housebuilders, that no=one has seriously proposed breaking up.

    And the short-term reason is the power of the NIMBY vote, that you see every time a Labour MP opposes a development in his own constituency.

    I'll be happy to be proved wrong, but a naturally risk-averse triangulator without any fixed principles isn't the man to stand up to these hugely powerful forces.
    Not sure I agree with either part of this.

    On the oligopoly point, there are eight housebuilders with a turnover above a billion, and quite a few more in the hundreds of millions. Are they seriously likely to be working in concert to limit supply to support prices? It seems pretty doubtful - it's true they often don't develop land immediately, but that's the concept of a pipeline of development, and it seems unlikely there is sufficient capacity in the construction industry to change that rapidly.

    The Competition and Markets Authority are in fact currently doing a market investigation of the housebuilding sector, and maybe I'll be proved wrong. But I'm pretty doubtful there's a silver bullet there.

    On NIMBYism, no doubt some viable developments are blocked by NIMBYs (of all parties and none). But large developers have significant resources to throw at the planning process, and can always appeal refusal to the Planning Inspectorate. Broadly, their success rate is pretty good.

    So I don't rule out that reforms (and loosening restrictions on the green belt) would help the situation a bit. But I'm not sure the issues you identify are as big as you suggest.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,575

    Too much to hope for that he stays?
    Not until 2025.
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 717

    @Penddu2 was the attack on what Doug chose to study really necessary?

    It was a little tongue in cheek....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,575

    kle4 said:

    Even if there was a valid point about not recovering sufficiently from prior low spells, it's telling that these companies still feel the need to included blatant untruths in their messaging about what has happened recently. Yet another industry that knows it can do whatever the f*ck it wants.

    @SouthWestWater
    A hosepipe ban means we can safeguard water supplies following limited & inconsistent rainfall over past months

    We know that Temporary Use Bans/Hosepipe Bans can be confusing & worrying, so we've got a guide to explain what it means & how it affects you

    @SpaJw
    This is simply not true. We’ve had the eighth wettest October-April in the South West in the last 133 years. The Environment Agency confirms it. https://gov.uk/government/publications/water-situation-local-area-reports/devon-and-cornwall-water-situation-april-2023-summary

    @SouthWestWater
    The National Drought Group which is headed by the Environment Agency have classified Devon and Cornwall as being in drought, even with the rainfall it has not been sufficient to recharge the larger reservoirs from their lowest ever levels caused by 2022's unprecedented dry spell.

    @SpaJw
    It is simply not true to say that rainfall has been limited and inconsistent. That you were unable to capture the abundancy of rain we have had over the last few months is an entirely separate issue. Do not gaslight us.


    https://twitter.com/SpaJw/status/1664602510043103232

    Meh.

    It’s a junior social media flunky with no appropriate oversight

    Cock up not conspiracy
    Wasn't suggesting a conspiracy. But having no real care about what you put out on social media or other PR, even untrue stuff, is itself indicative of the attitude of the companies in question - they don't have to worry what people think of them, so either they deliberately push bullshit out, or they cheap out and don't care if they push bullshit out.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,984
    Afternoon all :)

    Regrettably and perhaps predictably the housing "debate" is condensed down to building new homes for future Conservative voters as though the only point of having a housing policy at all is to re-enforce and re-build the Conservative voter base.

    Seriously?

    The whole housing issue is nuanced and complex and far more than simply building more houses. In my part of London, the new homes being built are well beyond the price of most people (allowing for the time they have to wait until a generous inheritance from Mum and Dad gives them a deposit). Thus, we have ideas like shared ownership or plain old-fashioned renting.

    Renting has become a dirty word simply because it doesn't produce Conservative voters - renters vote Labour, home owners vote Conservative and that frames the debate. In my part of Labour London it's all about renting and trying to create a strong well-regulated private rental market instead of the multi-property owning cowboys who screw their tenants by not doing proper maintenance or the awful HMOs where 20 or more are living in a 3-bedroom semi in a quiet residential street.

    In truth, all our housing policy over the past 30-40 years has done is create a new generation of slum dweller (they are nothing like the traditional slums of old except they are easy to get into and hard to escape from).

    The other aspect is too many win from and therefore have a vested interest in maintaining the current system. The property developers, Government and home owners all do well from the current housing market and they are between them unstoppable - why should anything ever change? For many home owners the capital asset which is their property funds their retirement when they downsize - no problem if your private pension pot won't cut it, your property will cover the difference and enable you to live a decent lifestyle.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,323
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Still awaiting the "hottest day of the year."
    12°C and overcast.

    25 degrees here yesterday at one point.
    Pretty pleasant in Yorkshire, too.
    But the west of the country has had by far the best of the weather this week.
    Its been noticably cool in Lincolnshire this year so far, especially at night. I am noticing it because of moth trapping (I wonder how Marquee Mark is finding it down in Devont on that score?) and I have not had a single night above 10 degrees so far in 2023. A couple of nights ago we were down at 5 degrees. I know it will warm up but I wish it would hurry up.
    There’s a noticeable shortage of insects this year. I think I’ve seen no more than a few butterflies, although we’ve had quite a few bees refreshing or washing themselves in out bird-bath.
    And the blue-tits which nested in our nest box laid eight eggs but only managed to get two chicks to fledge.
    The insect collapse really is noticeable sadly.

    I am not sure it is a widespread or accepted idea as yet but I am firmly of the opinion that it dates to the replacement of lead in petrol with benzene and MTBE. Back in 2000 when there was a rapid decline in House Sparrow populations in the UK one of the leading experts on the bird identified the lead replacement additives as being a possible cause. But he was primarily looking at direct poisoning of the birds whereas I think the effect has been far more insidious. We have seen a massive collapse in insect populations and of course that has a knock on effect on all those birds which rely on insects for diet. It started with urban birds which is why the House Sparrows were so badly affectd so early but has now spread around the countryside.

    The same effect is being seen in Europe and the Germans have been taking the petrol additive idea very seriously. It makes more sense in this instance than climate change or pesticides which are the more normal suspects. Particularly as pesticide use has been declining just as the insect populations has been collapsing.

    For me it is a very good reason to be looking forward to the end of the mass use of ICEs
    It's not something that I have looked at, but I agree that insect populations are radically down. The bug splattered windscreens of my youth are history.

    In another thread linkage in our interconnected world, it is perhaps a further reason to phase out the ICE engine. EVs don't need unleaded petrol.
    Is it possible that modern car aerodynamics are simply better, with less turbulent flow and a better-preserved boundary layer? I have no idea. Though I did also feel that the last couple of years have not been good on the insect score. We have a front garden deliberately full of assorted flowers - no grass - for the bees, and there don't seem so many hoverflies these days.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,135
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Still awaiting the "hottest day of the year."
    12°C and overcast.

    25 degrees here yesterday at one point.
    Pretty pleasant in Yorkshire, too.
    But the west of the country has had by far the best of the weather this week.
    Its been noticably cool in Lincolnshire this year so far, especially at night. I am noticing it because of moth trapping (I wonder how Marquee Mark is finding it down in Devont on that score?) and I have not had a single night above 10 degrees so far in 2023. A couple of nights ago we were down at 5 degrees. I know it will warm up but I wish it would hurry up.
    There’s a noticeable shortage of insects this year. I think I’ve seen no more than a few butterflies, although we’ve had quite a few bees refreshing or washing themselves in out bird-bath.
    And the blue-tits which nested in our nest box laid eight eggs but only managed to get two chicks to fledge.
    The insect collapse really is noticeable sadly.

    I am not sure it is a widespread or accepted idea as yet but I am firmly of the opinion that it dates to the replacement of lead in petrol with benzene and MTBE. Back in 2000 when there was a rapid decline in House Sparrow populations in the UK one of the leading experts on the bird identified the lead replacement additives as being a possible cause. But he was primarily looking at direct poisoning of the birds whereas I think the effect has been far more insidious. We have seen a massive collapse in insect populations and of course that has a knock on effect on all those birds which rely on insects for diet. It started with urban birds which is why the House Sparrows were so badly affectd so early but has now spread around the countryside.

    The same effect is being seen in Europe and the Germans have been taking the petrol additive idea very seriously. It makes more sense in this instance than climate change or pesticides which are the more normal suspects. Particularly as pesticide use has been declining just as the insect populations has been collapsing.

    For me it is a very good reason to be looking forward to the end of the mass use of ICEs
    It's not something that I have looked at, but I agree that insect populations are radically down. The bug splattered windscreens of my youth are history.

    In another thread linkage in our interconnected world, it is perhaps a further reason to phase out the ICE engine. EVs don't need unleaded petrol.
    Is it possible that modern car aerodynamics are simply better, with less turbulent flow and a better-preserved boundary layer? I have no idea. Though I did also feel that the last couple of years have not been good on the insect score. We have a front garden deliberately full of assorted flowers - no grass - for the bees, and there don't seem so many hoverflies these days.
    Drive through France, and it’s quite possible to collect a considerable insect collection. Although identification is not always so easy.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,967
    That Carlos Sainz Stand, just went awfully quiet.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,884

    Keir needs to put these water company CEOs into prison.

    Make them each swim a mile along the Severn, the Trent and the Thames past open and flowing storm release valve points should be enough.
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 717
    DougSeal said:

    Penddu2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Penddu2 said:

    kamski said:

    Heathener said:

    By the way, I'm sure you all saw it, and probably commented on here ad nauseam, but Rowan Atkinson's article yesterday was excellent:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/03/electric-vehicles-early-adopter-petrol-car-ev-environment-rowan-atkinson

    The big flaw is that lifetime emissions (from actually driving it) dominate the emissions that a car produces.
    Yes, and in the article he appears to assume that we all buy brand new cars and then scrap them after 3 years.
    "Electric motoring is, in theory, a subject about which I should know something. My first university degree was in electrical and electronic engineering, with a subsequent master’s in control systems."

    Begins Rowan Atkinson. I'm assuming his degrees were done in the 1970s. The fact that he thinks this gives him some current expertise on electric vehicles already makes the rest of the article unlikely to be worth reading. Why didn't the Guardian get someone who actually knows something to write on this? I guess Guardian readers are sick of experts and prefer celebrity clickbait.
    I have a degree in Civil Engineering - which is almost as completely applicable today as it was when I did it. But if you studied Electronics (or computing or biotechnology etc) then its applicability degrades rapidly with time - If you are not working in the field and staying up to date with technology you might as well have a degree in history (which has always been worthless)
    Yes. As I sit here in my hovel, with only the meagre takings of a partner in a City law firm to tide me over, I think to myself, “it all went wrong when I decided to do history”.
    So you agree - History was so worthless that you retrained to become a lawyer???
    No. Clearly your Civil Engineering degree did not teach you how to read or comprehend. I got a job as a lawyer off the back of my history degree. While even law graduates have to go to law school in the meantime most, like non-law grads, get the job offer before they go. After that, law or non-law, you spend two years (solicitors) or one year (barristers) as a trainee/pupil. Show me any job that doesn’t require their graduates, of any discipline, to do on the job training.

    As I say, sitting here in the sunshine regretting my life choices after your devastating post.
    If its any consolation I quickly decided that my Civil Engineering degree was destined for a life of relative poverty and lack of job security - so I made a series of sideways moves and ended up as a senior manager in oil & gas industry. Didnt really plan to get here but not complaining. I just took my chances when they came up.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956

    NEW THREAD

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,371
    I believe some of you were interested in the deadline for voluntary NI contributions. The deadline has been extended to 31 July 2023

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/taxpayers-given-more-time-for-voluntary-national-insurance-contributions
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,575
    Miklosvar said:

    kle4 said:

    Even if there was a valid point about not recovering sufficiently from prior low spells, it's telling that these companies still feel the need to included blatant untruths in their messaging about what has happened recently. Yet another industry that knows it can do whatever the f*ck it wants.

    @SouthWestWater
    A hosepipe ban means we can safeguard water supplies following limited & inconsistent rainfall over past months

    We know that Temporary Use Bans/Hosepipe Bans can be confusing & worrying, so we've got a guide to explain what it means & how it affects you

    @SpaJw
    This is simply not true. We’ve had the eighth wettest October-April in the South West in the last 133 years. The Environment Agency confirms it. https://gov.uk/government/publications/water-situation-local-area-reports/devon-and-cornwall-water-situation-april-2023-summary

    @SouthWestWater
    The National Drought Group which is headed by the Environment Agency have classified Devon and Cornwall as being in drought, even with the rainfall it has not been sufficient to recharge the larger reservoirs from their lowest ever levels caused by 2022's unprecedented dry spell.

    @SpaJw
    It is simply not true to say that rainfall has been limited and inconsistent. That you were unable to capture the abundancy of rain we have had over the last few months is an entirely separate issue. Do not gaslight us.


    https://twitter.com/SpaJw/status/1664602510043103232

    Meh.

    It’s a junior social media flunky with no appropriate oversight

    Cock up not conspiracy
    No brief for water cos but to be scrupulously fair to them looking at one winter does not give a full picture. You really need to look back to last time reservoirs were at 100% and see what has happened since. We have had a series of unbelievably dry summers and seem to be embarking on another.
    Perhaps - but that's why you say that instead of what they said.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Still awaiting the "hottest day of the year."
    12°C and overcast.

    25 degrees here yesterday at one point.
    Pretty pleasant in Yorkshire, too.
    But the west of the country has had by far the best of the weather this week.
    Its been noticably cool in Lincolnshire this year so far, especially at night. I am noticing it because of moth trapping (I wonder how Marquee Mark is finding it down in Devont on that score?) and I have not had a single night above 10 degrees so far in 2023. A couple of nights ago we were down at 5 degrees. I know it will warm up but I wish it would hurry up.
    There’s a noticeable shortage of insects this year. I think I’ve seen no more than a few butterflies, although we’ve had quite a few bees refreshing or washing themselves in out bird-bath.
    And the blue-tits which nested in our nest box laid eight eggs but only managed to get two chicks to fledge.
    The insect collapse really is noticeable sadly.

    I am not sure it is a widespread or accepted idea as yet but I am firmly of the opinion that it dates to the replacement of lead in petrol with benzene and MTBE. Back in 2000 when there was a rapid decline in House Sparrow populations in the UK one of the leading experts on the bird identified the lead replacement additives as being a possible cause. But he was primarily looking at direct poisoning of the birds whereas I think the effect has been far more insidious. We have seen a massive collapse in insect populations and of course that has a knock on effect on all those birds which rely on insects for diet. It started with urban birds which is why the House Sparrows were so badly affectd so early but has now spread around the countryside.

    The same effect is being seen in Europe and the Germans have been taking the petrol additive idea very seriously. It makes more sense in this instance than climate change or pesticides which are the more normal suspects. Particularly as pesticide use has been declining just as the insect populations has been collapsing.

    For me it is a very good reason to be looking forward to the end of the mass use of ICEs
    I'd not heard that, but it makes sense.

    On a slightly brighter note, at least four species of bumblebee are back in the garden today. Though only one in abundance.
This discussion has been closed.