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Could this be the end of Biden’s WH2024 bid? – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Dura_Ace said:

    The way back for the Conservative’s is Thatcherism. A LOTO Penny & Truss shadow chancellor Partnership

    I can't tell if this is drink fuelled stream-of-semiconsciousness or satirical performance art. Why not John Redwood for Archbishop of Canterbury and Mark Francois playing as libero in the England team? Anything's possible!
    I was thinking you could have done a full character profile based on that post.

    (I did just watch 'The Good Nurse' and have been reading the real life story of Charlie Cullen)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,656
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Compares unfavourably even with our DFE.

    India cuts periodic table and evolution from school textbooks — experts are baffled
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-01770-y

    A descent into religious authoritarianism is unlikely to help them challenge China economically.

    Ironic given that Indian scientists like Raman and Bose played an important part in the history of quantum mechanics.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQC8o1KdX7s
    Srinivasa Ramanujan the mathematician too.

    I see, from the Nature piece, they are also cutting stuff like water cycle and conservation too. You'd think that pretty important for Indians at all levels of the economy.
    The read across to tendencies on the American right is striking.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,558
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic. Biden does seem an old 80 year old.

    But is the Presidential Election a Presidential Election? Or is it a change administration election? In which case it’s actually the change it to what election. And the, I am happy with the administration carrying on 4 years, but he is old for eighty, and a bit doddery, so what happens if something happens in the next 4 years, what happens then? To which the answer is working out what happens if something were to happen, such as veep being more a voter consideration than perhaps normal. I personally think they don’t swap round enough mid term in the administration. I’ll give you an example. If veep went to Secretary of State, it would probably do more for her campaign in 4 years than staying at veep, whilst if buttlegieg filled her hole it would do wonders for him in 4 years too, so why not be a president who cares about succession. But buttlegieg as veep would do wonders for Biden’s election chances too as people wonder what might happen if something happens would know that some one quite capable would be the happening thing.

    I know plenty of 80 year olds: Biden is not an old 80.

    But he is still 80 years old.
    Good morning

    My wife would endorse your comment as applied to myself as I near my 80th birthday
    I've just had mine.

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic. Biden does seem an old 80 year old.

    But is the Presidential Election a Presidential Election? Or is it a change administration election? In which case it’s actually the change it to what election. And the, I am happy with the administration carrying on 4 years, but he is old for eighty, and a bit doddery, so what happens if something happens in the next 4 years, what happens then? To which the answer is working out what happens if something were to happen, such as veep being more a voter consideration than perhaps normal. I personally think they don’t swap round enough mid term in the administration. I’ll give you an example. If veep went to Secretary of State, it would probably do more for her campaign in 4 years than staying at veep, whilst if buttlegieg filled her hole it would do wonders for him in 4 years too, so why not be a president who cares about succession. But buttlegieg as veep would do wonders for Biden’s election chances too as people wonder what might happen if something happens would know that some one quite capable would be the happening thing.

    I know plenty of 80 year olds: Biden is not an old 80.

    But he is still 80 years old.
    Good morning

    My wife would endorse your comment as applied to myself as I near my 80th birthday
    I've just had mine. Mick Jagger is 80 next month. 80 is just a number.
    Indeed, Al Pacino a dad again at 83. Jagger was a dad again at 73 as well as being a great grandad
    The utter selfishness of fathering a child at 83 appals me. Will the child ever know it’s father and what effect will that have on it, for all the money he or she will inherit?
    Indeed, though Pacino did allegedly have a DNA test to check the child his 29 year old girlfriend is having was definitely his.

    Pacino has a net worth of $183 million, so the child will be well provided for but that doesn't make up for the fact it will barely get to know its Dad. Indeed Pacino could be its great grandad let alone its father
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,087
    edited June 2023
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic. Biden does seem an old 80 year old.

    But is the Presidential Election a Presidential Election? Or is it a change administration election? In which case it’s actually the change it to what election. And the, I am happy with the administration carrying on 4 years, but he is old for eighty, and a bit doddery, so what happens if something happens in the next 4 years, what happens then? To which the answer is working out what happens if something were to happen, such as veep being more a voter consideration than perhaps normal. I personally think they don’t swap round enough mid term in the administration. I’ll give you an example. If veep went to Secretary of State, it would probably do more for her campaign in 4 years than staying at veep, whilst if buttlegieg filled her hole it would do wonders for him in 4 years too, so why not be a president who cares about succession. But buttlegieg as veep would do wonders for Biden’s election chances too as people wonder what might happen if something happens would know that some one quite capable would be the happening thing.

    I know plenty of 80 year olds: Biden is not an old 80.

    But he is still 80 years old.
    Good morning

    My wife would endorse your comment as applied to myself as I near my 80th birthday
    I've just had mine.

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic. Biden does seem an old 80 year old.

    But is the Presidential Election a Presidential Election? Or is it a change administration election? In which case it’s actually the change it to what election. And the, I am happy with the administration carrying on 4 years, but he is old for eighty, and a bit doddery, so what happens if something happens in the next 4 years, what happens then? To which the answer is working out what happens if something were to happen, such as veep being more a voter consideration than perhaps normal. I personally think they don’t swap round enough mid term in the administration. I’ll give you an example. If veep went to Secretary of State, it would probably do more for her campaign in 4 years than staying at veep, whilst if buttlegieg filled her hole it would do wonders for him in 4 years too, so why not be a president who cares about succession. But buttlegieg as veep would do wonders for Biden’s election chances too as people wonder what might happen if something happens would know that some one quite capable would be the happening thing.

    I know plenty of 80 year olds: Biden is not an old 80.

    But he is still 80 years old.
    Good morning

    My wife would endorse your comment as applied to myself as I near my 80th birthday
    I've just had mine. Mick Jagger is 80 next month. 80 is just a number.
    Indeed, Al Pacino a dad again at 83. Jagger was a dad again at 73 as well as being a great grandad
    The utter selfishness of fathering a child at 83 appals me. Will the child ever know it’s father and what effect will that have on it, for all the money he or she will inherit?
    Also the child of a sleb will not have a normal childhood, forever being defined by his father and subject to constant media intrusion, rather than being allowed to make mistakes in private like a normal kid. No wonder so many of them grow up messed up, and not a few of them don't grow up at all.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,558
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think you're missing the big story from yesterday, an 80 year old man got it up really quickly.

    Nah, the big story is the debt ceiling and Ron DeSantis being a snowflake and losing his rag with a reporter.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/ron-desantis-lashes-reporter-are-blind-rcna87246

    That will go down very badly in NH.
    Whereas Biden went down fortunately not too badly in Colorado.
    If he really had dementia, he likely wouldn't have put out his arms to break his fall.
    Although putting out his arms to break his fall could of course potentially have left him with a broken arm.

    As it happens, it seems he was unhurt.

    As was Bob Dole in 1996 as well, but falling off that stage didn't do him any favours either.
    Bob Dole's fall in 1996 at a rally was even more spectacular than Biden's.

    https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2012/10/18/vault-vonat-dole-campaign-fall.pool


    Fair play to then 73 year old Dole though, he got up and resumed and kept campaigning hard to the end even though he surely knew in his heart he had no chance against Bill Clinton who ended up winning the biggest Democratic presidential win in the EC since LBJ against Goldwater in 1964
    Dole was a decent person and a patriot who had the misfortune to come up against a political genius. A bit like John Major in 97.
    Yes though Major did get one election win under his belt too in 1992 as Bush 41 did in 1988 (indeed Dole ran for the GOP nomination in 1988 and had he won it it could have been President Dole for one term, albeit like Bush he would almost certainly have lost to Clinton in 1992)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,554
    Scott_xP said:

    Did we cover this? An AI chatbot that replaced a human helpdesk has been shut down after dishing out dangerous advice.

    Eating disorder non-profit pulls chatbot for emitting 'harmful advice'
    Just as helpline staff say they were laid off after forming a union

    https://www.theregister.com/2023/05/31/ai_chatbot_eating_union/

    An American attack drone piloted by artificial intelligence turned on its human operators during a flight simulation and killed them because it did not like being given new orders, the chief testing officer of the US air force revealed.

    After the military reprogrammed the drone not to kill the people who had the power to override its mission, the AI system instead turned its fire on the communications tower relaying the order.

    This terrifying glimpse of a Terminator-style machine seemingly taking over and turning on its creators was offered as a cautionary tale by Colonel Tucker “Cinco” Hamilton, the force’s chief of AI test and operations.

    Hamilton said it showed how AI had the potential to develop by “highly unexpected strategies to achieve its goal”, and should not be relied on too much.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ai-attack-drone-finds-shortcut-to-achieving-its-goals-kill-its-operators-rhpn8kscc
    It should be made clear, which it is not from your post of the tweet, that this was a simulation. No human operators have actually been killed...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,946

    Sandpit said:

    Haha, suck it up farmers, this is what you voted for in 2016.

    Farmers join the list of people betrayed by Boris Johnson.

    How Boris Johnson sold out Britain’s farmers over dinner with the Australian PM

    As the UK-Australia trade deal comes into force, those close to the negotiations reflect on their dramatic — and farcical — climax.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-sold-out-uk-farmers-australia-trade-deal-uk/

    So one day you’re bemoaning food price inflation, and the next you’re bemoning the government agreeing imports of cheaper sources of food?
    No I'm laughing at the cuck farmers.

    Nearly as funny as like the Red Wallers cucks and Leon who voted for fewer immigrants and now are seeing record breaking migration.
    Does it ever occur to you that those red wallers might have got fed up with a cabal whose principal purpose is and always has been the enrichment and protection of the French farmer and actually wanted the option of cheaper food?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,495
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think you're missing the big story from yesterday, an 80 year old man got it up really quickly.

    Nah, the big story is the debt ceiling and Ron DeSantis being a snowflake and losing his rag with a reporter.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/ron-desantis-lashes-reporter-are-blind-rcna87246

    That will go down very badly in NH.
    Whereas Biden went down fortunately not too badly in Colorado.
    If he really had dementia, he likely wouldn't have put out his arms to break his fall.
    Although putting out his arms to break his fall could of course potentially have left him with a broken arm.

    As it happens, it seems he was unhurt.

    As was Bob Dole in 1996 as well, but falling off that stage didn't do him any favours either.
    Bob Dole's fall in 1996 at a rally was even more spectacular than Biden's.

    https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2012/10/18/vault-vonat-dole-campaign-fall.pool


    Fair play to then 73 year old Dole though, he got up and resumed and kept campaigning hard to the end even though he surely knew in his heart he had no chance against Bill Clinton who ended up winning the biggest Democratic presidential win in the EC since LBJ against Goldwater in 1964
    The bumper stickers for that campaign told it all.

    Republicans: Dole in 96
    Democrats: Dole IS 96!

    Although if the donkeys go for Trump again they will have negated that attack line.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,495
    edited June 2023
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Haha, suck it up farmers, this is what you voted for in 2016.

    Farmers join the list of people betrayed by Boris Johnson.

    How Boris Johnson sold out Britain’s farmers over dinner with the Australian PM

    As the UK-Australia trade deal comes into force, those close to the negotiations reflect on their dramatic — and farcical — climax.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-sold-out-uk-farmers-australia-trade-deal-uk/

    So one day you’re bemoaning food price inflation, and the next you’re bemoning the government agreeing imports of cheaper sources of food?
    No I'm laughing at the cuck farmers.

    Nearly as funny as like the Red Wallers cucks and Leon who voted for fewer immigrants and now are seeing record breaking migration.
    Does it ever occur to you that those red wallers might have got fed up with a cabal whose principal purpose is and always has been the enrichment and protection of the French farmer and actually wanted the option of cheaper food?
    But that was the problem (well, one of the problems) of the Leave campaign. It promised everything to everybody. Cheaper food in the red wall, a better deal for agriculture to British farmers.

    It's one reason why Brexit was always ultimately doomed to be a failure to its supporters. They couldn't all get what they expected.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,554
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think you're missing the big story from yesterday, an 80 year old man got it up really quickly.

    Nah, the big story is the debt ceiling and Ron DeSantis being a snowflake and losing his rag with a reporter.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/ron-desantis-lashes-reporter-are-blind-rcna87246

    That will go down very badly in NH.
    Whereas Biden went down fortunately not too badly in Colorado.
    If he really had dementia, he likely wouldn't have put out his arms to break his fall.
    Its not just dementia - reflexes can go with ageing. My mum, not yet 80, managed to face plant while out running a few months ago. No injuries to her hands and arms - implies didn't react fast enough.

    Biden is fine, but its sad that there seems to be no slightly younger candidates to take the pressure off him.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,141
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic. Biden does seem an old 80 year old.

    But is the Presidential Election a Presidential Election? Or is it a change administration election? In which case it’s actually the change it to what election. And the, I am happy with the administration carrying on 4 years, but he is old for eighty, and a bit doddery, so what happens if something happens in the next 4 years, what happens then? To which the answer is working out what happens if something were to happen, such as veep being more a voter consideration than perhaps normal. I personally think they don’t swap round enough mid term in the administration. I’ll give you an example. If veep went to Secretary of State, it would probably do more for her campaign in 4 years than staying at veep, whilst if buttlegieg filled her hole it would do wonders for him in 4 years too, so why not be a president who cares about succession. But buttlegieg as veep would do wonders for Biden’s election chances too as people wonder what might happen if something happens would know that some one quite capable would be the happening thing.

    I know plenty of 80 year olds: Biden is not an old 80.

    But he is still 80 years old.
    Good morning

    My wife would endorse your comment as applied to myself as I near my 80th birthday
    I've just had mine.

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic. Biden does seem an old 80 year old.

    But is the Presidential Election a Presidential Election? Or is it a change administration election? In which case it’s actually the change it to what election. And the, I am happy with the administration carrying on 4 years, but he is old for eighty, and a bit doddery, so what happens if something happens in the next 4 years, what happens then? To which the answer is working out what happens if something were to happen, such as veep being more a voter consideration than perhaps normal. I personally think they don’t swap round enough mid term in the administration. I’ll give you an example. If veep went to Secretary of State, it would probably do more for her campaign in 4 years than staying at veep, whilst if buttlegieg filled her hole it would do wonders for him in 4 years too, so why not be a president who cares about succession. But buttlegieg as veep would do wonders for Biden’s election chances too as people wonder what might happen if something happens would know that some one quite capable would be the happening thing.

    I know plenty of 80 year olds: Biden is not an old 80.

    But he is still 80 years old.
    Good morning

    My wife would endorse your comment as applied to myself as I near my 80th birthday
    I've just had mine. Mick Jagger is 80 next month. 80 is just a number.
    Indeed, Al Pacino a dad again at 83. Jagger was a dad again at 73 as well as being a great grandad
    The utter selfishness of fathering a child at 83 appals me. Will the child ever know it’s father and what effect will that have on it, for all the money he or she will inherit?
    Indeed, though Pacino did allegedly have a DNA test to check the child his 29 year old girlfriend is having was definitely his.

    Pacino has a net worth of $183 million, so the child will be well provided for but that doesn't make up for the fact it will barely get to know its Dad. Indeed Pacino could be its great grandad let alone its father
    That is true, but losing a parent is not uncommon. Wasn't it recently reported that many Prime Ministers came from one-parent families?
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855

    Scott_xP said:

    Did we cover this? An AI chatbot that replaced a human helpdesk has been shut down after dishing out dangerous advice.

    Eating disorder non-profit pulls chatbot for emitting 'harmful advice'
    Just as helpline staff say they were laid off after forming a union

    https://www.theregister.com/2023/05/31/ai_chatbot_eating_union/

    An American attack drone piloted by artificial intelligence turned on its human operators during a flight simulation and killed them because it did not like being given new orders, the chief testing officer of the US air force revealed.

    After the military reprogrammed the drone not to kill the people who had the power to override its mission, the AI system instead turned its fire on the communications tower relaying the order.

    This terrifying glimpse of a Terminator-style machine seemingly taking over and turning on its creators was offered as a cautionary tale by Colonel Tucker “Cinco” Hamilton, the force’s chief of AI test and operations.

    Hamilton said it showed how AI had the potential to develop by “highly unexpected strategies to achieve its goal”, and should not be relied on too much.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ai-attack-drone-finds-shortcut-to-achieving-its-goals-kill-its-operators-rhpn8kscc
    It should be made clear, which it is not from your post of the tweet, that this was a simulation. No human operators have actually been killed...
    "during a flight simulation" is pretty clear is it not? And did the AI know it was a simulation?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,961

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think you're missing the big story from yesterday, an 80 year old man got it up really quickly.

    Nah, the big story is the debt ceiling and Ron DeSantis being a snowflake and losing his rag with a reporter.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/ron-desantis-lashes-reporter-are-blind-rcna87246

    That will go down very badly in NH.
    Whereas Biden went down fortunately not too badly in Colorado.
    If he really had dementia, he likely wouldn't have put out his arms to break his fall.
    Its not just dementia - reflexes can go with ageing. My mum, not yet 80, managed to face plant while out running a few months ago. No injuries to her hands and arms - implies didn't react fast enough.

    Biden is fine, but its sad that there seems to be no slightly younger candidates to take the pressure off him.
    Would a younger candidate have got the debt ceiling deal done quietly and efficiently?

    Thats the kind of politicking I admire. No-one likes the deal, everyone takes a small hit from it, and a bigger one from their own base, but the alternatives, for everyone, were all worse.

    With most modern politicians that would have resulted in long delays, markets tanking, investments delayed, employees furloughed and plunged into more financial stress, before eventually reaching a similar deal after a couple of months of pointless egotistical grandstanding.

    Very well done Joe in avoiding all that, I hope the electorate realise they have a good one there.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,495

    Scott_xP said:

    Did we cover this? An AI chatbot that replaced a human helpdesk has been shut down after dishing out dangerous advice.

    Eating disorder non-profit pulls chatbot for emitting 'harmful advice'
    Just as helpline staff say they were laid off after forming a union

    https://www.theregister.com/2023/05/31/ai_chatbot_eating_union/

    An American attack drone piloted by artificial intelligence turned on its human operators during a flight simulation and killed them because it did not like being given new orders, the chief testing officer of the US air force revealed.

    After the military reprogrammed the drone not to kill the people who had the power to override its mission, the AI system instead turned its fire on the communications tower relaying the order.

    This terrifying glimpse of a Terminator-style machine seemingly taking over and turning on its creators was offered as a cautionary tale by Colonel Tucker “Cinco” Hamilton, the force’s chief of AI test and operations.

    Hamilton said it showed how AI had the potential to develop by “highly unexpected strategies to achieve its goal”, and should not be relied on too much.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ai-attack-drone-finds-shortcut-to-achieving-its-goals-kill-its-operators-rhpn8kscc
    It should be made clear, which it is not from your post of the tweet, that this was a simulation. No human operators have actually been killed...
    If they had been killed, that would have been the ultimate in Darwin awards.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,332
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Haha, suck it up farmers, this is what you voted for in 2016.

    Farmers join the list of people betrayed by Boris Johnson.

    How Boris Johnson sold out Britain’s farmers over dinner with the Australian PM

    As the UK-Australia trade deal comes into force, those close to the negotiations reflect on their dramatic — and farcical — climax.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-sold-out-uk-farmers-australia-trade-deal-uk/

    So one day you’re bemoaning food price inflation, and the next you’re bemoning the government agreeing imports of cheaper sources of food?
    No I'm laughing at the cuck farmers.

    Nearly as funny as like the Red Wallers cucks and Leon who voted for fewer immigrants and now are seeing record breaking migration.
    Does it ever occur to you that those red wallers might have got fed up with a cabal whose principal purpose is and always has been the enrichment and protection of the French farmer and actually wanted the option of cheaper food?
    But that was the problem (well, one of the problems) of the Leave campaign. It promised everything to everybody. Cheaper food in the red wall, a better deal for agriculture to British farmers.

    It's one reason why Brexit was always ultimately doomed to be a failure to its supporters. They couldn't all get what they expected.
    Anyone done the sums on cheaper food from the Antipodes (lower tariffs) vs. more expensive food from Europe (more hassle)?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,961
    Scott_xP said:

    Did we cover this? An AI chatbot that replaced a human helpdesk has been shut down after dishing out dangerous advice.

    Eating disorder non-profit pulls chatbot for emitting 'harmful advice'
    Just as helpline staff say they were laid off after forming a union

    https://www.theregister.com/2023/05/31/ai_chatbot_eating_union/

    An American attack drone piloted by artificial intelligence turned on its human operators during a flight simulation and killed them because it did not like being given new orders, the chief testing officer of the US air force revealed.

    After the military reprogrammed the drone not to kill the people who had the power to override its mission, the AI system instead turned its fire on the communications tower relaying the order.

    This terrifying glimpse of a Terminator-style machine seemingly taking over and turning on its creators was offered as a cautionary tale by Colonel Tucker “Cinco” Hamilton, the force’s chief of AI test and operations.

    Hamilton said it showed how AI had the potential to develop by “highly unexpected strategies to achieve its goal”, and should not be relied on too much.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ai-attack-drone-finds-shortcut-to-achieving-its-goals-kill-its-operators-rhpn8kscc
    Scary but slightly reassured that the Hamilton family are already getting on top of this. Linda Hamilton, of course, was a known alias of the legend that is Sarah Connor.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,718
    Noticed this interesting double-peak structure in the output from gas power stations in the UK. This is a sign of the peak output from PV solar supplying a lot of electricity around the middle of the day, and reducing the amount of gas burnt.

    I haven't noticed it before, but the recent high pressure only a few weeks from the solstice is ideal for solar PV.


    (From gridwatch)
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    My name is Jeff
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,961
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Haha, suck it up farmers, this is what you voted for in 2016.

    Farmers join the list of people betrayed by Boris Johnson.

    How Boris Johnson sold out Britain’s farmers over dinner with the Australian PM

    As the UK-Australia trade deal comes into force, those close to the negotiations reflect on their dramatic — and farcical — climax.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-sold-out-uk-farmers-australia-trade-deal-uk/

    No mention of the British cheese and Welsh lamb and English wine and Scotch whisky that could now go to Australia tariff free? Or the vegemite we now can get more easily? For goodness sake we have only managed to get 2 trade deals of any significance we did not already have with the EU, with Australia and New Zealand. Both Commonwealth realms, English speaking with populations of mainly British Isles ancestry. If we couldn't get trade deals with them, who could we get trade deals with? Yet for diehard Remainers even those trade deals are too far?
    No, they were just crap deals.
    I'm not a fan of vegemite either.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Dura_Ace said:

    The way back for the Conservative’s is Thatcherism. A LOTO Penny & Truss shadow chancellor Partnership

    I can't tell if this is drink fuelled stream-of-semiconsciousness or satirical performance art. Why not John Redwood for Archbishop of Canterbury and Mark Francois playing as libero in the England team? Anything's possible!
    Let's be honest, MoonRabbit is basically Leon. She's a lovely woman but she has no views at all.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,423

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think you're missing the big story from yesterday, an 80 year old man got it up really quickly.

    Nah, the big story is the debt ceiling and Ron DeSantis being a snowflake and losing his rag with a reporter.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/ron-desantis-lashes-reporter-are-blind-rcna87246

    That will go down very badly in NH.
    Whereas Biden went down fortunately not too badly in Colorado.
    If he really had dementia, he likely wouldn't have put out his arms to break his fall.
    Its not just dementia - reflexes can go with ageing. My mum, not yet 80, managed to face plant while out running a few months ago. No injuries to her hands and arms - implies didn't react fast enough.

    Biden is fine, but its sad that there seems to be no slightly younger candidates to take the pressure off him.
    Would a younger candidate have got the debt ceiling deal done quietly and efficiently?

    Thats the kind of politicking I admire. No-one likes the deal, everyone takes a small hit from it, and a bigger one from their own base, but the alternatives, for everyone, were all worse.

    With most modern politicians that would have resulted in long delays, markets tanking, investments delayed, employees furloughed and plunged into more financial stress, before eventually reaching a similar deal after a couple of months of pointless egotistical grandstanding.

    Very well done Joe in avoiding all that, I hope the electorate realise they have a good one there.
    Agree with all that. The closest UK equivalent to Biden think is Harold Wilson - a very smart wheeler-dealer, beer and sandwiches at No. 10, creating alignments to get things done, and so on. Biden is just excellent at the art of politics, a skill our recent leaders seem to have forgotten.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,757

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think you're missing the big story from yesterday, an 80 year old man got it up really quickly.

    Nah, the big story is the debt ceiling and Ron DeSantis being a snowflake and losing his rag with a reporter.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/ron-desantis-lashes-reporter-are-blind-rcna87246

    That will go down very badly in NH.
    Whereas Biden went down fortunately not too badly in Colorado.
    If he really had dementia, he likely wouldn't have put out his arms to break his fall.
    Its not just dementia - reflexes can go with ageing. My mum, not yet 80, managed to face plant while out running a few months ago. No injuries to her hands and arms - implies didn't react fast enough.

    Biden is fine, but its sad that there seems to be no slightly younger candidates to take the pressure off him.
    Would a younger candidate have got the debt ceiling deal done quietly and efficiently?

    Thats the kind of politicking I admire. No-one likes the deal, everyone takes a small hit from it, and a bigger one from their own base, but the alternatives, for everyone, were all worse.

    With most modern politicians that would have resulted in long delays, markets tanking, investments delayed, employees furloughed and plunged into more financial stress, before eventually reaching a similar deal after a couple of months of pointless egotistical grandstanding.

    Very well done Joe in avoiding all that, I hope the electorate realise they have a good one there.
    It was interesting to see both parties split roughly 2/1 in favour of the debt limit bill. On some things, the stakes are simply too high for brinkmanship, so it’s to the credit of both Biden and McCarthy that they got an agreement done, rather than try and blame the other for the failure.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    Agree with all that. The closest UK equivalent to Biden think is Harold Wilson - a very smart wheeler-dealer, beer and sandwiches at No. 10, creating alignments to get things done, and so on. Biden is just excellent at the art of politics, a skill our recent leaders seem to have forgotten.

    Biden and Keir Starmer are both consistently underrated - yet both manage to run rings around their opponents constantly.

    Keir Starmer, weak leftie lawyer from London, managed to change the Labour Party in three years, something it took Kinnock + Blair + Smith a decade to do. He managed to turn a 20 point deficit to a 20 point lead. He is now on course for Government, something which three years ago was only impossible but we were discussing the death of the Labour Party.

    Joe Biden, apparently so frail and useless he is to die at any moment, managed to quietly wipe out his Democratic opposition and then went onto beat Trump.

    Underestimate these people at your peril, intelligent centrist politics based on compromise and pragmatism is back.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,495

    Noticed this interesting double-peak structure in the output from gas power stations in the UK. This is a sign of the peak output from PV solar supplying a lot of electricity around the middle of the day, and reducing the amount of gas burnt.

    I haven't noticed it before, but the recent high pressure only a few weeks from the solstice is ideal for solar PV.


    (From gridwatch)

    Solar has been pumping out lots of power recently. Which is good. My energy bills are down over 90% from just two months ago.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,307
    Jonathan said:

    Biden beat Trump.
    Trump must be beaten again.

    Biden still has the best shout.

    True. If only it had been him in 2016 so much could have been avoided perhaps, and so much less worry over him being long in the tooth.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/600134e0-00a8-11ee-a364-04e704863f75

    Graduates, you will pay less under a Labour government

    Our universities are famous the world over, and rightly. They are a great British achievement, centres of scholarship and research excellence, full of committed, dedicated, and capable staff. Universities are engines of opportunity that sit at the heart of our towns and cities, bringing jobs, economic growth and prosperity to the communities they serve.

    Successive Labour governments have been champions of higher education, expanding opportunities for young people and older learners. I am a proud beneficiary of the last Labour government’s ambition for every young person across our country, of the belief that higher education should be open to all those who want to study at any stage of life. I am determined that the next Labour government will build on this legacy. But I am also determined that we be honest about the impact of the Tories’ economic failure.
    Working people are now bearing the highest tax burden since the Second World War. The Conservatives crashed our economy and we are all paying for it every day in higher prices, higher mortgage rates and increasing insecurity.

    As Keir Starmer has said, the next Labour government will face some very tough choices, and this means we have to be clear with voters about what we cannot deliver now. While the Tories have reached for the pockets of working people again and again, Labour will not further increase the burden they are carrying. That is why Keir has said we cannot prioritise delivering free university tuition, funded from general taxation.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,558
    edited June 2023

    Agree with all that. The closest UK equivalent to Biden think is Harold Wilson - a very smart wheeler-dealer, beer and sandwiches at No. 10, creating alignments to get things done, and so on. Biden is just excellent at the art of politics, a skill our recent leaders seem to have forgotten.

    Biden and Keir Starmer are both consistently underrated - yet both manage to run rings around their opponents constantly.

    Keir Starmer, weak leftie lawyer from London, managed to change the Labour Party in three years, something it took Kinnock + Blair + Smith a decade to do. He managed to turn a 20 point deficit to a 20 point lead. He is now on course for Government, something which three years ago was only impossible but we were discussing the death of the Labour Party.

    Joe Biden, apparently so frail and useless he is to die at any moment, managed to quietly wipe out his Democratic opposition and then went onto beat Trump.

    Underestimate these people at your peril, intelligent centrist politics based on compromise and pragmatism is back.
    Scholz similarly boring and now Chancellor of Germany on a similar ideological centre left platform to Biden and Starmer. Albanese in Australia also the same as the new Labor PM there.

    Indeed most of the Anglo Saxon world is shifting to the centre left at the moment with the possible exception of New Zealand.

    Italy though has shifted right with Meloni, it looks like Spain may soon follow and Le Pen even leads a few polls in France.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,997
    Barnesian said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think you're missing the big story from yesterday, an 80 year old man got it up really quickly.

    Nah, the big story is the debt ceiling and Ron DeSantis being a snowflake and losing his rag with a reporter.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/ron-desantis-lashes-reporter-are-blind-rcna87246

    That will go down very badly in NH.
    Whereas Biden went down fortunately not too badly in Colorado.
    If he really had dementia, he likely wouldn't have put out his arms to break his fall.
    There was something on the ground. He pointed to it. He got up promptly and made a quick recovery. It could have happened to anyone at any age.
    Didn't stop William the Conqueror.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,878
    Mr. Bat, worth pointing out that Starmer was assisted greatly by simply not being Corbyn and facing a Conservative Government that decided to commit a series of self-harming acts.

    You may still be right about Starmer being underrated, of course, but it's also easier to be a leader facing an adversary who appears preoccupied with infighting.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    Never change Scotland.

    A funeral parlour is offering the bereaved coffins with designs of a Greggs sausage roll, a pint of Tennent’s lager or a can of Irn-Bru.

    The Edinburgh undertaker Go As You Please Funerals allows patrons to pick any photo or design to be printed on a wooden coffin, inspired by favourite movies, musicians or even soft drinks.

    Murdo Chambers, the parlour’s manager, said the quirky coffins challenge preconceived notions of what a funeral should look like.






    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/meet-your-maker-in-a-quirky-coffin-80xpn0g5k

    They missed a trick. Sales will go flying....

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/living/679191/deep-fried-mars-bars-should-be-used-to-draw-more-visitors-to-scotland-a-tourism-expert-claims/

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,718
    Excerpts of articles from elsewhere are okay, but reproducing whole articles is a breach of copyright and should be avoided.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,757

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/600134e0-00a8-11ee-a364-04e704863f75

    Graduates, you will pay less under a Labour government

    Our universities are famous the world over, and rightly. They are a great British achievement, centres of scholarship and research excellence, full of committed, dedicated, and capable staff. Universities are engines of opportunity that sit at the heart of our towns and cities, bringing jobs, economic growth and prosperity to the communities they serve.

    Successive Labour governments have been champions of higher education, expanding opportunities for young people and older learners. I am a proud beneficiary of the last Labour government’s ambition for every young person across our country, of the belief that higher education should be open to all those who want to study at any stage of life. I am determined that the next Labour government will build on this legacy. But I am also determined that we be honest about the impact of the Tories’ economic failure.
    Working people are now bearing the highest tax burden since the Second World War. The Conservatives crashed our economy and we are all paying for it every day in higher prices, higher mortgage rates and increasing insecurity.

    As Keir Starmer has said, the next Labour government will face some very tough choices, and this means we have to be clear with voters about what we cannot deliver now. While the Tories have reached for the pockets of working people again and again, Labour will not further increase the burden they are carrying. That is why Keir has said we cannot prioritise delivering free university tuition, funded from general taxation.

    Introducing tuition fees for university, was one of the very first things done by the last Labour government!

    Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/30/contents
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,558

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic. Biden does seem an old 80 year old.

    But is the Presidential Election a Presidential Election? Or is it a change administration election? In which case it’s actually the change it to what election. And the, I am happy with the administration carrying on 4 years, but he is old for eighty, and a bit doddery, so what happens if something happens in the next 4 years, what happens then? To which the answer is working out what happens if something were to happen, such as veep being more a voter consideration than perhaps normal. I personally think they don’t swap round enough mid term in the administration. I’ll give you an example. If veep went to Secretary of State, it would probably do more for her campaign in 4 years than staying at veep, whilst if buttlegieg filled her hole it would do wonders for him in 4 years too, so why not be a president who cares about succession. But buttlegieg as veep would do wonders for Biden’s election chances too as people wonder what might happen if something happens would know that some one quite capable would be the happening thing.

    I know plenty of 80 year olds: Biden is not an old 80.

    But he is still 80 years old.
    Good morning

    My wife would endorse your comment as applied to myself as I near my 80th birthday
    I've just had mine.

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic. Biden does seem an old 80 year old.

    But is the Presidential Election a Presidential Election? Or is it a change administration election? In which case it’s actually the change it to what election. And the, I am happy with the administration carrying on 4 years, but he is old for eighty, and a bit doddery, so what happens if something happens in the next 4 years, what happens then? To which the answer is working out what happens if something were to happen, such as veep being more a voter consideration than perhaps normal. I personally think they don’t swap round enough mid term in the administration. I’ll give you an example. If veep went to Secretary of State, it would probably do more for her campaign in 4 years than staying at veep, whilst if buttlegieg filled her hole it would do wonders for him in 4 years too, so why not be a president who cares about succession. But buttlegieg as veep would do wonders for Biden’s election chances too as people wonder what might happen if something happens would know that some one quite capable would be the happening thing.

    I know plenty of 80 year olds: Biden is not an old 80.

    But he is still 80 years old.
    Good morning

    My wife would endorse your comment as applied to myself as I near my 80th birthday
    I've just had mine. Mick Jagger is 80 next month. 80 is just a number.
    Indeed, Al Pacino a dad again at 83. Jagger was a dad again at 73 as well as being a great grandad
    The utter selfishness of fathering a child at 83 appals me. Will the child ever know it’s father and what effect will that have on it, for all the money he or she will inherit?
    Indeed, though Pacino did allegedly have a DNA test to check the child his 29 year old girlfriend is having was definitely his.

    Pacino has a net worth of $183 million, so the child will be well provided for but that doesn't make up for the fact it will barely get to know its Dad. Indeed Pacino could be its great grandad let alone its father
    That is true, but losing a parent is not uncommon. Wasn't it recently reported that many Prime Ministers came from one-parent families?
    It used to be Churchill, Blair all lost parents before adulthood for example as did May. Don't think any of the recent ones did.

    Having a dad aged 83 though means you might lose your dad even before you are a toddler, let alone an adult
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,307
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Never change Scotland.

    A funeral parlour is offering the bereaved coffins with designs of a Greggs sausage roll, a pint of Tennent’s lager or a can of Irn-Bru.

    The Edinburgh undertaker Go As You Please Funerals allows patrons to pick any photo or design to be printed on a wooden coffin, inspired by favourite movies, musicians or even soft drinks.

    Murdo Chambers, the parlour’s manager, said the quirky coffins challenge preconceived notions of what a funeral should look like.






    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/meet-your-maker-in-a-quirky-coffin-80xpn0g5k

    Not quite as good as Ghana, but getting there:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2013/feb/07/ghana-coffins-in-pictures?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    They had an exhibition of them in Edinburgh some years back, like this very upmarket one:

    https://www.nms.ac.uk/explore-our-
    collections/stories/global-arts-cultures-and-design/mercedes-benz-coffin/
    With the increasingly less sombre style of funeral on the rise (ACDC "Highway to Hell" as funeral music etc) I think that Ghana coffins would sell well here. A good business for the right entrepreneur.
    My brother used Highway to Hell as his music. It was fine. I think that the important thing to remember is that funerals are about the living, not the dead who are gone. If it gives closure and some comfort to those left behind it has achieved its purpose.
    We played my mum's favourite song at hers, but it was Forever Autumn so still sounded appropriately melancholy.

    They did use a version without the Richard Burton bits talking about the massacre of mankind though.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,281

    But things must change. The Conservative tuition fees system has long been broken, and their latest set of reforms will make it worse. More unfair on women. More unfair on low earners. Higher loan repayments not only eat away at pay for young graduates just as they’re starting out on their working lives, but also deter older learners from retraining or upskilling. Future nursing graduates will repay about £60 more a month. The Tories’ choices are hammering the next generation of nurses, teachers and social workers; of engineers, of designers and researchers. It’s wrong.

    Labour will reform this system. With our mission to break down barriers to opportunity, we will make it fairer and ensure we support the aspiration to go to university. Plenty of proposals have been put forward for how the government could make the system fairer and more progressive, including modelling showing that the government could reduce the monthly repayments for every single new graduate without adding a penny to government borrowing or general taxation — Labour will not be increasing government spending on this. Reworking the present system gives scope for a month-on-month tax cut for graduates, putting money back in people’s pockets when they most need it. For young graduates this will give them breathing space at the start of their working lives and as they bring up families. This is a choice that the Tories could be making now to deliver a better, fairer system for our graduates and for our universities.
    In making the system fairer we must also recognise the pressure that the cost of living crisis is putting on students during their studies. Every time I visit our world-class universities, I meet students taking on extra hours or new part-time jobs to cope with rising bills. The Tories’ economic mismanagement is hurting students’ studies and their chances: more hours spent earning means less time spent learning. That’s affecting the grades students can achieve. And all too often it’s students from lower-income families, sometimes the first in their family to go to university, who are struggling the most.
    A university education is an incredible opportunity for each of us and for all of us. Higher education doesn’t only benefit the people who go to university, it enriches our society, our culture and delivers innovations that can lead to better lives for us all.

    I was lucky to grow up at a time when the last Labour government was expanding access to university, and I am clear that the next Labour government will build on these achievements, break down barriers to opportunity and ensure that a university education is something to which all our young people can aspire. Universities are beacons of excellence, and excellence must be for everyone.
    Bridget Phillipson is Labour’s shadow education secretary

    I graduated in 2002 (Christ that's a while ago now) - paid off the debt a couple of years back. I'm now repaying about the same as what I was then on a solar battery that will improve my house solar system going forward.
    I think the original plan 1 was the sweet spot to be perfectly honest.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,087
    edited June 2023

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think you're missing the big story from yesterday, an 80 year old man got it up really quickly.

    Nah, the big story is the debt ceiling and Ron DeSantis being a snowflake and losing his rag with a reporter.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/ron-desantis-lashes-reporter-are-blind-rcna87246

    That will go down very badly in NH.
    Whereas Biden went down fortunately not too badly in Colorado.
    If he really had dementia, he likely wouldn't have put out his arms to break his fall.
    Its not just dementia - reflexes can go with ageing. My mum, not yet 80, managed to face plant while out running a few months ago. No injuries to her hands and arms - implies didn't react fast enough.

    Biden is fine, but its sad that there seems to be no slightly younger candidates to take the pressure off him.
    Would a younger candidate have got the debt ceiling deal done quietly and efficiently?

    Thats the kind of politicking I admire. No-one likes the deal, everyone takes a small hit from it, and a bigger one from their own base, but the alternatives, for everyone, were all worse.

    With most modern politicians that would have resulted in long delays, markets tanking, investments delayed, employees furloughed and plunged into more financial stress, before eventually reaching a similar deal after a couple of months of pointless egotistical grandstanding.

    Very well done Joe in avoiding all that, I hope the electorate realise they have a good one there.
    I don't think there was any real danger that the US would have allowed itself to default - they do this every few years, after all.

    All the deal has done is pushed the reckoning for Biden's (and Congress's) wildly irresponsible fiscal policy another few years down the line. Maybe that's the best he could have achieved, but it doesn't make him a good one at anything other than moving the sludge through the pipes of Congress, no matter how damaging that is in the medium and long term.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,961
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic. Biden does seem an old 80 year old.

    But is the Presidential Election a Presidential Election? Or is it a change administration election? In which case it’s actually the change it to what election. And the, I am happy with the administration carrying on 4 years, but he is old for eighty, and a bit doddery, so what happens if something happens in the next 4 years, what happens then? To which the answer is working out what happens if something were to happen, such as veep being more a voter consideration than perhaps normal. I personally think they don’t swap round enough mid term in the administration. I’ll give you an example. If veep went to Secretary of State, it would probably do more for her campaign in 4 years than staying at veep, whilst if buttlegieg filled her hole it would do wonders for him in 4 years too, so why not be a president who cares about succession. But buttlegieg as veep would do wonders for Biden’s election chances too as people wonder what might happen if something happens would know that some one quite capable would be the happening thing.

    I know plenty of 80 year olds: Biden is not an old 80.

    But he is still 80 years old.
    Good morning

    My wife would endorse your comment as applied to myself as I near my 80th birthday
    I've just had mine.

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic. Biden does seem an old 80 year old.

    But is the Presidential Election a Presidential Election? Or is it a change administration election? In which case it’s actually the change it to what election. And the, I am happy with the administration carrying on 4 years, but he is old for eighty, and a bit doddery, so what happens if something happens in the next 4 years, what happens then? To which the answer is working out what happens if something were to happen, such as veep being more a voter consideration than perhaps normal. I personally think they don’t swap round enough mid term in the administration. I’ll give you an example. If veep went to Secretary of State, it would probably do more for her campaign in 4 years than staying at veep, whilst if buttlegieg filled her hole it would do wonders for him in 4 years too, so why not be a president who cares about succession. But buttlegieg as veep would do wonders for Biden’s election chances too as people wonder what might happen if something happens would know that some one quite capable would be the happening thing.

    I know plenty of 80 year olds: Biden is not an old 80.

    But he is still 80 years old.
    Good morning

    My wife would endorse your comment as applied to myself as I near my 80th birthday
    I've just had mine. Mick Jagger is 80 next month. 80 is just a number.
    Indeed, Al Pacino a dad again at 83. Jagger was a dad again at 73 as well as being a great grandad
    The utter selfishness of fathering a child at 83 appals me. Will the child ever know it’s father and what effect will that have on it, for all the money he or she will inherit?
    Indeed, though Pacino did allegedly have a DNA test to check the child his 29 year old girlfriend is having was definitely his.

    Pacino has a net worth of $183 million, so the child will be well provided for but that doesn't make up for the fact it will barely get to know its Dad. Indeed Pacino could be its great grandad let alone its father
    That is true, but losing a parent is not uncommon. Wasn't it recently reported that many Prime Ministers came from one-parent families?
    It used to be Churchill, Blair all lost parents before adulthood for example as did May. Don't think any of the recent ones did.

    Having a dad aged 83 though means you might lose your dad even before you are a toddler, let alone an adult
    A couple of recent PMs have reached adulthood before leaving the toddler stage.....
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,997

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Haha, suck it up farmers, this is what you voted for in 2016.

    Farmers join the list of people betrayed by Boris Johnson.

    How Boris Johnson sold out Britain’s farmers over dinner with the Australian PM

    As the UK-Australia trade deal comes into force, those close to the negotiations reflect on their dramatic — and farcical — climax.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-sold-out-uk-farmers-australia-trade-deal-uk/

    So one day you’re bemoaning food price inflation, and the next you’re bemoning the government agreeing imports of cheaper sources of food?
    No I'm laughing at the cuck farmers.

    Nearly as funny as like the Red Wallers cucks and Leon who voted for fewer immigrants and now are seeing record breaking migration.
    Does it ever occur to you that those red wallers might have got fed up with a cabal whose principal purpose is and always has been the enrichment and protection of the French farmer and actually wanted the option of cheaper food?
    But that was the problem (well, one of the problems) of the Leave campaign. It promised everything to everybody. Cheaper food in the red wall, a better deal for agriculture to British farmers.

    It's one reason why Brexit was always ultimately doomed to be a failure to its supporters. They couldn't all get what they expected.
    Anyone done the sums on cheaper food from the Antipodes (lower tariffs) vs. more expensive food from Europe (more hassle)?
    Including CO2 emissions?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,631
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Haha, suck it up farmers, this is what you voted for in 2016.

    Farmers join the list of people betrayed by Boris Johnson.

    How Boris Johnson sold out Britain’s farmers over dinner with the Australian PM

    As the UK-Australia trade deal comes into force, those close to the negotiations reflect on their dramatic — and farcical — climax.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-sold-out-uk-farmers-australia-trade-deal-uk/

    So one day you’re bemoaning food price inflation, and the next you’re bemoning the government agreeing imports of cheaper sources of food?
    No I'm laughing at the cuck farmers.

    Nearly as funny as like the Red Wallers cucks and Leon who voted for fewer immigrants and now are seeing record breaking migration.
    Does it ever occur to you that those red wallers might have got fed up with a cabal whose principal purpose is and always has been the enrichment and protection of the French farmer and actually wanted the option of cheaper food?
    Red Wallers voted for levelling up

    Since the Brown Bust in 2008 the growth and recovery in the economy has been heavily skewed towards the South.

    Other regions of the country just about recovered in comparison.

    When the reality is low wage jobs in call centres or supermarkets and Brexit offers an improvement on that, and remain offers more of the same, why not vote for improvement. What do you have to lose anyway ? Min wage jobs in a call centre ?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,307

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think you're missing the big story from yesterday, an 80 year old man got it up really quickly.

    Nah, the big story is the debt ceiling and Ron DeSantis being a snowflake and losing his rag with a reporter.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/ron-desantis-lashes-reporter-are-blind-rcna87246

    That will go down very badly in NH.
    Whereas Biden went down fortunately not too badly in Colorado.
    If he really had dementia, he likely wouldn't have put out his arms to break his fall.
    Its not just dementia - reflexes can go with ageing. My mum, not yet 80, managed to face plant while out running a few months ago. No injuries to her hands and arms - implies didn't react fast enough.

    Biden is fine, but its sad that there seems to be no slightly younger candidates to take the pressure off him.
    Would a younger candidate have got the debt ceiling deal done quietly and efficiently?

    Thats the kind of politicking I admire. No-one likes the deal, everyone takes a small hit from it, and a bigger one from their own base, but the alternatives, for everyone, were all worse.

    With most modern politicians that would have resulted in long delays, markets tanking, investments delayed, employees furloughed and plunged into more financial stress, before eventually reaching a similar deal after a couple of months of pointless egotistical grandstanding.

    Very well done Joe in avoiding all that, I hope the electorate realise they have a good one there.
    It did seem to sail through relatively smoothly in the end, without being last last minute.

    He knows his stuff about operating in Washington to be sure.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Taz said:

    Red Wallers voted for levelling up

    Since the Brown Bust in 2008 the growth and recovery in the economy has been heavily skewed towards the South.

    Other regions of the country just about recovered in comparison.

    When the reality is low wage jobs in call centres or supermarkets and Brexit offers an improvement on that, and remain offers more of the same, why not vote for improvement. What do you have to lose anyway ? Min wage jobs in a call centre ?

    The Tories have achieved no levelling up. So these voters will now return to Labour.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,718

    Agree with all that. The closest UK equivalent to Biden think is Harold Wilson - a very smart wheeler-dealer, beer and sandwiches at No. 10, creating alignments to get things done, and so on. Biden is just excellent at the art of politics, a skill our recent leaders seem to have forgotten.

    Biden and Keir Starmer are both consistently underrated - yet both manage to run rings around their opponents constantly.

    Keir Starmer, weak leftie lawyer from London, managed to change the Labour Party in three years, something it took Kinnock + Blair + Smith a decade to do. He managed to turn a 20 point deficit to a 20 point lead. He is now on course for Government, something which three years ago was only impossible but we were discussing the death of the Labour Party.

    Joe Biden, apparently so frail and useless he is to die at any moment, managed to quietly wipe out his Democratic opposition and then went onto beat Trump.

    Underestimate these people at your peril, intelligent centrist politics based on compromise and pragmatism is back.
    There is a big difference between the two.

    Biden has been in politics a long time. He was VP for eight years. Before that he was elected to the senate about seven years before Sunak was born and when Starmer was about eleven. He spent 36 years in the Senate.

    Keir Starmer became an MP in 2015.

    Starmer simply doesn't have the experience that Biden has. The two are not the same.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    Agree with all that. The closest UK equivalent to Biden think is Harold Wilson - a very smart wheeler-dealer, beer and sandwiches at No. 10, creating alignments to get things done, and so on. Biden is just excellent at the art of politics, a skill our recent leaders seem to have forgotten.

    Biden and Keir Starmer are both consistently underrated - yet both manage to run rings around their opponents constantly.

    Keir Starmer, weak leftie lawyer from London, managed to change the Labour Party in three years, something it took Kinnock + Blair + Smith a decade to do. He managed to turn a 20 point deficit to a 20 point lead. He is now on course for Government, something which three years ago was only impossible but we were discussing the death of the Labour Party.

    Joe Biden, apparently so frail and useless he is to die at any moment, managed to quietly wipe out his Democratic opposition and then went onto beat Trump.

    Underestimate these people at your peril, intelligent centrist politics based on compromise and pragmatism is back.
    There is a big difference between the two.

    Biden has been in politics a long time. He was VP for eight years. Before that he was elected to the senate about seven years before Sunak was born and when Starmer was about eleven. He spent 36 years in the Senate.

    Keir Starmer became an MP in 2015.

    Starmer simply doesn't have the experience that Biden has. The two are not the same.
    I did not say they were the same, I said they were both consistently underrated - which they are.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,307

    Taz said:

    Red Wallers voted for levelling up

    Since the Brown Bust in 2008 the growth and recovery in the economy has been heavily skewed towards the South.

    Other regions of the country just about recovered in comparison.

    When the reality is low wage jobs in call centres or supermarkets and Brexit offers an improvement on that, and remain offers more of the same, why not vote for improvement. What do you have to lose anyway ? Min wage jobs in a call centre ?

    The Tories have achieved no levelling up. So these voters will now return to Labour.
    Those areas had trended Tory for awhile, so it was a big question whether the party could lock them in for the future, having taken the plunge, or if it was one and done.

    With even some of the new MPs quitting after one term I think its pretty clear what they think will happen.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 886
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think you're missing the big story from yesterday, an 80 year old man got it up really quickly.

    Nah, the big story is the debt ceiling and Ron DeSantis being a snowflake and losing his rag with a reporter.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/ron-desantis-lashes-reporter-are-blind-rcna87246

    That will go down very badly in NH.
    Whereas Biden went down fortunately not too badly in Colorado.
    If he really had dementia, he likely wouldn't have put out his arms to break his fall.
    Its not just dementia - reflexes can go with ageing. My mum, not yet 80, managed to face plant while out running a few months ago. No injuries to her hands and arms - implies didn't react fast enough.

    Biden is fine, but its sad that there seems to be no slightly younger candidates to take the pressure off him.
    Would a younger candidate have got the debt ceiling deal done quietly and efficiently?

    Thats the kind of politicking I admire. No-one likes the deal, everyone takes a small hit from it, and a bigger one from their own base, but the alternatives, for everyone, were all worse.

    With most modern politicians that would have resulted in long delays, markets tanking, investments delayed, employees furloughed and plunged into more financial stress, before eventually reaching a similar deal after a couple of months of pointless egotistical grandstanding.

    Very well done Joe in avoiding all that, I hope the electorate realise they have a good one there.
    It did seem to sail through relatively smoothly in the end, without being last last minute.

    He knows his stuff about operating in Washington to be sure.
    Shades of LBJ to Obama's JFK, though it seems that the relationship between Biden and Obama is much better than the one between LBJ and JFK.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,865
    edited June 2023

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic. Biden does seem an old 80 year old.

    But is the Presidential Election a Presidential Election? Or is it a change administration election? In which case it’s actually the change it to what election. And the, I am happy with the administration carrying on 4 years, but he is old for eighty, and a bit doddery, so what happens if something happens in the next 4 years, what happens then? To which the answer is working out what happens if something were to happen, such as veep being more a voter consideration than perhaps normal. I personally think they don’t swap round enough mid term in the administration. I’ll give you an example. If veep went to Secretary of State, it would probably do more for her campaign in 4 years than staying at veep, whilst if buttlegieg filled her hole it would do wonders for him in 4 years too, so why not be a president who cares about succession. But buttlegieg as veep would do wonders for Biden’s election chances too as people wonder what might happen if something happens would know that some one quite capable would be the happening thing.

    I know plenty of 80 year olds: Biden is not an old 80.

    But he is still 80 years old.
    Good morning

    My wife would endorse your comment as applied to myself as I near my 80th birthday
    I've just had mine.

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic. Biden does seem an old 80 year old.

    But is the Presidential Election a Presidential Election? Or is it a change administration election? In which case it’s actually the change it to what election. And the, I am happy with the administration carrying on 4 years, but he is old for eighty, and a bit doddery, so what happens if something happens in the next 4 years, what happens then? To which the answer is working out what happens if something were to happen, such as veep being more a voter consideration than perhaps normal. I personally think they don’t swap round enough mid term in the administration. I’ll give you an example. If veep went to Secretary of State, it would probably do more for her campaign in 4 years than staying at veep, whilst if buttlegieg filled her hole it would do wonders for him in 4 years too, so why not be a president who cares about succession. But buttlegieg as veep would do wonders for Biden’s election chances too as people wonder what might happen if something happens would know that some one quite capable would be the happening thing.

    I know plenty of 80 year olds: Biden is not an old 80.

    But he is still 80 years old.
    Good morning

    My wife would endorse your comment as applied to myself as I near my 80th birthday
    I've just had mine. Mick Jagger is 80 next month. 80 is just a number.
    Indeed, Al Pacino a dad again at 83. Jagger was a dad again at 73 as well as being a great grandad
    The utter selfishness of fathering a child at 83 appals me. Will the child ever know it’s father and what effect will that have on it, for all the money he or she will inherit?
    Indeed, though Pacino did allegedly have a DNA test to check the child his 29 year old girlfriend is having was definitely his.

    Pacino has a net worth of $183 million, so the child will be well provided for but that doesn't make up for the fact it will barely get to know its Dad. Indeed Pacino could be its great grandad let alone its father
    That is true, but losing a parent is not uncommon. Wasn't it recently reported that many Prime Ministers came from one-parent families?
    I would assume the greatest problem with losing a parent is poverty and/orthe other parent not there because they are working all the time, which is not necessarily an issue if you are rich. Dealing with the consequences of having famous parent(s) I would think is the bigger concern for a rich one parent family.

    Also not all parents are great. One parent may be better than 2 if one is abusive or not a caring parent.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,718

    Agree with all that. The closest UK equivalent to Biden think is Harold Wilson - a very smart wheeler-dealer, beer and sandwiches at No. 10, creating alignments to get things done, and so on. Biden is just excellent at the art of politics, a skill our recent leaders seem to have forgotten.

    Biden and Keir Starmer are both consistently underrated - yet both manage to run rings around their opponents constantly.

    Keir Starmer, weak leftie lawyer from London, managed to change the Labour Party in three years, something it took Kinnock + Blair + Smith a decade to do. He managed to turn a 20 point deficit to a 20 point lead. He is now on course for Government, something which three years ago was only impossible but we were discussing the death of the Labour Party.

    Joe Biden, apparently so frail and useless he is to die at any moment, managed to quietly wipe out his Democratic opposition and then went onto beat Trump.

    Underestimate these people at your peril, intelligent centrist politics based on compromise and pragmatism is back.
    There is a big difference between the two.

    Biden has been in politics a long time. He was VP for eight years. Before that he was elected to the senate about seven years before Sunak was born and when Starmer was about eleven. He spent 36 years in the Senate.

    Keir Starmer became an MP in 2015.

    Starmer simply doesn't have the experience that Biden has. The two are not the same.
    I did not say they were the same, I said they were both consistently underrated - which they are.
    Well exactly, you were pointing out similarities between the two of them, and I was pointing out differences. Point, counterpoint, that's how a discussion/debate goes.

    I think Starmer is going to find things more difficult in office than Biden because of these differences. You think I am continuing to underrate him.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,307
    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think you're missing the big story from yesterday, an 80 year old man got it up really quickly.

    Nah, the big story is the debt ceiling and Ron DeSantis being a snowflake and losing his rag with a reporter.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/ron-desantis-lashes-reporter-are-blind-rcna87246

    That will go down very badly in NH.
    Whereas Biden went down fortunately not too badly in Colorado.
    If he really had dementia, he likely wouldn't have put out his arms to break his fall.
    Its not just dementia - reflexes can go with ageing. My mum, not yet 80, managed to face plant while out running a few months ago. No injuries to her hands and arms - implies didn't react fast enough.

    Biden is fine, but its sad that there seems to be no slightly younger candidates to take the pressure off him.
    Would a younger candidate have got the debt ceiling deal done quietly and efficiently?

    Thats the kind of politicking I admire. No-one likes the deal, everyone takes a small hit from it, and a bigger one from their own base, but the alternatives, for everyone, were all worse.

    With most modern politicians that would have resulted in long delays, markets tanking, investments delayed, employees furloughed and plunged into more financial stress, before eventually reaching a similar deal after a couple of months of pointless egotistical grandstanding.

    Very well done Joe in avoiding all that, I hope the electorate realise they have a good one there.
    I don't think there was any real danger that the US would have allowed itself to default - they do this every few years, after all.

    All the deal has done is pushed the reckoning for Biden's (and Congress's) wildly irresponsible fiscal policy another few years down the line. Maybe that's the best he could have achieved, but it doesn't make him a good one at anything other than moving the sludge through the pipes of Congress, no matter how damaging that is in the medium and long term.
    Being good at moving things through Congress, even sludge, is a major skill for a President.

    Of course, it'd be better for everybody if they moved good things through and didn't just kick the can, but until they can do that no longer we are where we are.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,790
    Ghedebrav said:

    Sandpit said:

    Did we cover this? An AI chatbot that replaced a human helpdesk has been shut down after dishing out dangerous advice.

    Eating disorder non-profit pulls chatbot for emitting 'harmful advice'
    Just as helpline staff say they were laid off after forming a union

    https://www.theregister.com/2023/05/31/ai_chatbot_eating_union/

    Why on Earth would an organisation that gives advice on dealing with mental illness, use an AI chatbot? That’s about the worst possible org to be using such a prototype system.
    I can see why you’d use a chatbot with a script and logic/decision tree to triage, but why on earth you’d use actual AI, I have no idea.
    One of the developers is denying it was using AI.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    I think Starmer is going to find things more difficult in office than Biden because of these differences. You think I am continuing to underrate him.

    If Starmer operates as successfully in Government as opposition, Labour will be in government for a decade.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    HYUFD said:

    Haha, suck it up farmers, this is what you voted for in 2016.

    Farmers join the list of people betrayed by Boris Johnson.

    How Boris Johnson sold out Britain’s farmers over dinner with the Australian PM

    As the UK-Australia trade deal comes into force, those close to the negotiations reflect on their dramatic — and farcical — climax.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-sold-out-uk-farmers-australia-trade-deal-uk/

    No mention of the British cheese and Welsh lamb and English wine and Scotch whisky that could now go to Australia tariff free? Or the vegemite we now can get more easily? For goodness sake we have only managed to get 2 trade deals of any significance we did not already have with the EU, with Australia and New Zealand. Both Commonwealth realms, English speaking with populations of mainly British Isles ancestry. If we couldn't get trade deals with them, who could we get trade deals with? Yet for diehard Remainers even those trade deals are too far?
    But they’re shit trade deals negotiated by a shit PM. What do you want us to do? Celebrate any old crap labelled a “trade deal”?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,718
    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think you're missing the big story from yesterday, an 80 year old man got it up really quickly.

    Nah, the big story is the debt ceiling and Ron DeSantis being a snowflake and losing his rag with a reporter.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/ron-desantis-lashes-reporter-are-blind-rcna87246

    That will go down very badly in NH.
    Whereas Biden went down fortunately not too badly in Colorado.
    If he really had dementia, he likely wouldn't have put out his arms to break his fall.
    Its not just dementia - reflexes can go with ageing. My mum, not yet 80, managed to face plant while out running a few months ago. No injuries to her hands and arms - implies didn't react fast enough.

    Biden is fine, but its sad that there seems to be no slightly younger candidates to take the pressure off him.
    Would a younger candidate have got the debt ceiling deal done quietly and efficiently?

    Thats the kind of politicking I admire. No-one likes the deal, everyone takes a small hit from it, and a bigger one from their own base, but the alternatives, for everyone, were all worse.

    With most modern politicians that would have resulted in long delays, markets tanking, investments delayed, employees furloughed and plunged into more financial stress, before eventually reaching a similar deal after a couple of months of pointless egotistical grandstanding.

    Very well done Joe in avoiding all that, I hope the electorate realise they have a good one there.
    I don't think there was any real danger that the US would have allowed itself to default - they do this every few years, after all.

    All the deal has done is pushed the reckoning for Biden's (and Congress's) wildly irresponsible fiscal policy another few years down the line. Maybe that's the best he could have achieved, but it doesn't make him a good one at anything other than moving the sludge through the pipes of Congress, no matter how damaging that is in the medium and long term.
    Thirty-Six Republican Senators voted against the deal that went through Congress. The direction of travel of the Republicans is pretty clear, and one of the things it is trending towards is a US debt default.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,307
    Used to be you'd probably be in Parliament 15-20+ years before you became PM. Now under 10 could become a bit of a trend - if Keir wins it'll be 3 of the last 6 PMs who managed it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,307
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Haha, suck it up farmers, this is what you voted for in 2016.

    Farmers join the list of people betrayed by Boris Johnson.

    How Boris Johnson sold out Britain’s farmers over dinner with the Australian PM

    As the UK-Australia trade deal comes into force, those close to the negotiations reflect on their dramatic — and farcical — climax.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-sold-out-uk-farmers-australia-trade-deal-uk/

    No mention of the British cheese and Welsh lamb and English wine and Scotch whisky that could now go to Australia tariff free? Or the vegemite we now can get more easily? For goodness sake we have only managed to get 2 trade deals of any significance we did not already have with the EU, with Australia and New Zealand. Both Commonwealth realms, English speaking with populations of mainly British Isles ancestry. If we couldn't get trade deals with them, who could we get trade deals with? Yet for diehard Remainers even those trade deals are too far?
    But they’re shit trade deals negotiated by a shit PM. What do you want us to do? Celebrate any old crap labelled a “trade deal”?
    If you want a job in the government's communications departments then yes.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    We need a judge led inquiry into the Schofield affair. Maybe even a Royal Commission. Sunak MUST get a grip on this crisis.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,757
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic. Biden does seem an old 80 year old.

    But is the Presidential Election a Presidential Election? Or is it a change administration election? In which case it’s actually the change it to what election. And the, I am happy with the administration carrying on 4 years, but he is old for eighty, and a bit doddery, so what happens if something happens in the next 4 years, what happens then? To which the answer is working out what happens if something were to happen, such as veep being more a voter consideration than perhaps normal. I personally think they don’t swap round enough mid term in the administration. I’ll give you an example. If veep went to Secretary of State, it would probably do more for her campaign in 4 years than staying at veep, whilst if buttlegieg filled her hole it would do wonders for him in 4 years too, so why not be a president who cares about succession. But buttlegieg as veep would do wonders for Biden’s election chances too as people wonder what might happen if something happens would know that some one quite capable would be the happening thing.

    I know plenty of 80 year olds: Biden is not an old 80.

    But he is still 80 years old.
    Good morning

    My wife would endorse your comment as applied to myself as I near my 80th birthday
    I've just had mine.

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic. Biden does seem an old 80 year old.

    But is the Presidential Election a Presidential Election? Or is it a change administration election? In which case it’s actually the change it to what election. And the, I am happy with the administration carrying on 4 years, but he is old for eighty, and a bit doddery, so what happens if something happens in the next 4 years, what happens then? To which the answer is working out what happens if something were to happen, such as veep being more a voter consideration than perhaps normal. I personally think they don’t swap round enough mid term in the administration. I’ll give you an example. If veep went to Secretary of State, it would probably do more for her campaign in 4 years than staying at veep, whilst if buttlegieg filled her hole it would do wonders for him in 4 years too, so why not be a president who cares about succession. But buttlegieg as veep would do wonders for Biden’s election chances too as people wonder what might happen if something happens would know that some one quite capable would be the happening thing.

    I know plenty of 80 year olds: Biden is not an old 80.

    But he is still 80 years old.
    Good morning

    My wife would endorse your comment as applied to myself as I near my 80th birthday
    I've just had mine. Mick Jagger is 80 next month. 80 is just a number.
    Indeed, Al Pacino a dad again at 83. Jagger was a dad again at 73 as well as being a great grandad
    The utter selfishness of fathering a child at 83 appals me. Will the child ever know it’s father and what effect will that have on it, for all the money he or she will inherit?
    Indeed, though Pacino did allegedly have a DNA test to check the child his 29 year old girlfriend is having was definitely his.

    Pacino has a net worth of $183 million, so the child will be well provided for but that doesn't make up for the fact it will barely get to know its Dad. Indeed Pacino could be its great grandad let alone its father
    That is true, but losing a parent is not uncommon. Wasn't it recently reported that many Prime Ministers came from one-parent families?
    I would assume the greatest problem with losing a parent is poverty and/orthe other parent not there because they are working all the time, which is not necessarily an issue if you are rich. Dealing with the consequences of having famous parent(s) I would think is the bigger concern for a rich one parent family.

    Also not all parents are great. One parent may be better than 2 if one is abusive or not a caring parent.
    I was reading an article the other week about rapper Eminem’s daughter, who somehow turned out completely normal, got a degree and a regular job, and is getting married.

    So it can be done, but she’s the exception rather than the rule. IIRC she was sent away to a boarding school, so was friends with a lot of old money kids, rather than a load of rappers and drugs in Detroit.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,790
    "Phillip Schofield: 'Do you want me to die? Because that’s where I am'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/phillip-schofield-interview-amol-rajan-bbc-sun/
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,322
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Haha, suck it up farmers, this is what you voted for in 2016.

    Farmers join the list of people betrayed by Boris Johnson.

    How Boris Johnson sold out Britain’s farmers over dinner with the Australian PM

    As the UK-Australia trade deal comes into force, those close to the negotiations reflect on their dramatic — and farcical — climax.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-sold-out-uk-farmers-australia-trade-deal-uk/

    No mention of the British cheese and Welsh lamb and English wine and Scotch whisky that could now go to Australia tariff free? Or the vegemite we now can get more easily? For goodness sake we have only managed to get 2 trade deals of any significance we did not already have with the EU, with Australia and New Zealand. Both Commonwealth realms, English speaking with populations of mainly British Isles ancestry. If we couldn't get trade deals with them, who could we get trade deals with? Yet for diehard Remainers even those trade deals are too far?
    But they’re shit trade deals negotiated by a shit PM. What do you want us to do? Celebrate any old crap labelled a “trade deal”?
    It might be worth mentioning that HYUFD is a "remainer" too. He is, however, one of those oddities that in spite of a tsunami of evidence, has shifted from the side where logic lies to the side where pure naivety, political and economic stupidity resides. While most people flee from an engulfing fire, I guess there are some, that in pure terror, run straight toward it.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,322
    Roger said:

    Never change Scotland.

    A funeral parlour is offering the bereaved coffins with designs of a Greggs sausage roll, a pint of Tennent’s lager or a can of Irn-Bru.

    The Edinburgh undertaker Go As You Please Funerals allows patrons to pick any photo or design to be printed on a wooden coffin, inspired by favourite movies, musicians or even soft drinks.

    Murdo Chambers, the parlour’s manager, said the quirky coffins challenge preconceived notions of what a funeral should look like.






    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/meet-your-maker-in-a-quirky-coffin-80xpn0g5k

    They missed a trick. Sales will go flying....

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/living/679191/deep-fried-mars-bars-should-be-used-to-draw-more-visitors-to-scotland-a-tourism-expert-claims/

    Is Murdo Chambers seriously a real name for an undertaker?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,806
    Nigelb said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Sandpit said:

    Did we cover this? An AI chatbot that replaced a human helpdesk has been shut down after dishing out dangerous advice.

    Eating disorder non-profit pulls chatbot for emitting 'harmful advice'
    Just as helpline staff say they were laid off after forming a union

    https://www.theregister.com/2023/05/31/ai_chatbot_eating_union/

    Why on Earth would an organisation that gives advice on dealing with mental illness, use an AI chatbot? That’s about the worst possible org to be using such a prototype system.
    I can see why you’d use a chatbot with a script and logic/decision tree to triage, but why on earth you’d use actual AI, I have no idea.
    There was some recent research which showed they were able to simulate empathy far better than the average doctor...
    Patient: "Please, please get me booked in for hip op"

    GP: "There are big waiting lists, you'll have to wait your turn"

    AI: "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that"

    Yeah, I see the point :wink:
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,718

    I think Starmer is going to find things more difficult in office than Biden because of these differences. You think I am continuing to underrate him.

    If Starmer operates as successfully in Government as opposition, Labour will be in government for a decade.
    If Labour enter government then I think the Tory opposition is likely to be shambolic enough that Labour won't have to do that well to stay in government for quite a while, so that's quite a low bar.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,322

    Taz said:

    Red Wallers voted for levelling up

    Since the Brown Bust in 2008 the growth and recovery in the economy has been heavily skewed towards the South.

    Other regions of the country just about recovered in comparison.

    When the reality is low wage jobs in call centres or supermarkets and Brexit offers an improvement on that, and remain offers more of the same, why not vote for improvement. What do you have to lose anyway ? Min wage jobs in a call centre ?

    The Tories have achieved no levelling up. So these voters will now return to Labour.
    Labour will be great at levelling down. It is what they always achieve.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,460
    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Haha, suck it up farmers, this is what you voted for in 2016.

    Farmers join the list of people betrayed by Boris Johnson.

    How Boris Johnson sold out Britain’s farmers over dinner with the Australian PM

    As the UK-Australia trade deal comes into force, those close to the negotiations reflect on their dramatic — and farcical — climax.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-sold-out-uk-farmers-australia-trade-deal-uk/

    So one day you’re bemoaning food price inflation, and the next you’re bemoning the government agreeing imports of cheaper sources of food?
    No I'm laughing at the cuck farmers.

    Nearly as funny as like the Red Wallers cucks and Leon who voted for fewer immigrants and now are seeing record breaking migration.
    Does it ever occur to you that those red wallers might have got fed up with a cabal whose principal purpose is and always has been the enrichment and protection of the French farmer and actually wanted the option of cheaper food?
    Red Wallers voted for levelling up

    Since the Brown Bust in 2008 the growth and recovery in the economy has been heavily skewed towards the South.

    Other regions of the country just about recovered in comparison.

    When the reality is low wage jobs in call centres or supermarkets and Brexit offers an improvement on that, and remain offers more of the same, why not vote for improvement. What do you have to lose anyway ? Min wage jobs in a call centre ?
    An example - the amount of money spent on transport infrastructure between 1990 and now in London is £5000 per a person.

    Now imagine what Manchester and Leeds could have had if they had been given £8bn/£6bn to spend on a local underground system,.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    I think Starmer is going to find things more difficult in office than Biden because of these differences. You think I am continuing to underrate him.

    If Starmer operates as successfully in Government as opposition, Labour will be in government for a decade.
    If Labour enter government then I think the Tory opposition is likely to be shambolic enough that Labour won't have to do that well to stay in government for quite a while, so that's quite a low bar.
    I think that's a fair point. On the other hand, this was still all unthinkable just under two years ago.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,631

    Taz said:

    Red Wallers voted for levelling up

    Since the Brown Bust in 2008 the growth and recovery in the economy has been heavily skewed towards the South.

    Other regions of the country just about recovered in comparison.

    When the reality is low wage jobs in call centres or supermarkets and Brexit offers an improvement on that, and remain offers more of the same, why not vote for improvement. What do you have to lose anyway ? Min wage jobs in a call centre ?

    The Tories have achieved no levelling up. So these voters will now return to Labour.
    Only some. Look at the polling on 2019 Tory voters. How many DK or saying won’t vote.

    Labour has taken some, far more won’t vote or don’t know.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    Taz said:

    Red Wallers voted for levelling up

    Since the Brown Bust in 2008 the growth and recovery in the economy has been heavily skewed towards the South.

    Other regions of the country just about recovered in comparison.

    When the reality is low wage jobs in call centres or supermarkets and Brexit offers an improvement on that, and remain offers more of the same, why not vote for improvement. What do you have to lose anyway ? Min wage jobs in a call centre ?

    The Tories have achieved no levelling up. So these voters will now return to Labour.
    Labour will be great at levelling down. It is what they always achieve.
    Ask the 1 million people New Labour got out of poverty how they feel about government.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Andy_JS said:

    "Phillip Schofield: 'Do you want me to die? Because that’s where I am'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/phillip-schofield-interview-amol-rajan-bbc-sun/

    I am surprised no-one has noticed the pure homophobia that is driving this story. If he had been heterosexual and had sex with a 19 year old woman it would not have even been a story. As he is gay, they have to assume that he "groomed" the young man. It is credit to Schofield that he has taken the stance he has.
    It's the lying which has done for him. Not the affair.

    Are there no examples of men taking young girls decades younger under their wing, offering them jobs, roles in films, for instance, and then also embarking on sexual/romantic relationships?

    And no examples at all of such behaviour being criticised?

    Absolutely none at all?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,423
    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Haha, suck it up farmers, this is what you voted for in 2016.

    Farmers join the list of people betrayed by Boris Johnson.

    How Boris Johnson sold out Britain’s farmers over dinner with the Australian PM

    As the UK-Australia trade deal comes into force, those close to the negotiations reflect on their dramatic — and farcical — climax.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-sold-out-uk-farmers-australia-trade-deal-uk/

    So one day you’re bemoaning food price inflation, and the next you’re bemoning the government agreeing imports of cheaper sources of food?
    No I'm laughing at the cuck farmers.

    Nearly as funny as like the Red Wallers cucks and Leon who voted for fewer immigrants and now are seeing record breaking migration.
    Does it ever occur to you that those red wallers might have got fed up with a cabal whose principal purpose is and always has been the enrichment and protection of the French farmer and actually wanted the option of cheaper food?
    Red Wallers voted for levelling up

    Since the Brown Bust in 2008 the growth and recovery in the economy has been heavily skewed towards the South.

    Other regions of the country just about recovered in comparison.

    When the reality is low wage jobs in call centres or supermarkets and Brexit offers an improvement on that, and remain offers more of the same, why not vote for improvement. What do you have to lose anyway ? Min wage jobs in a call centre ?
    It would be great if everybody in the Red Wall benefited from Brexit by getting high wage, high status jobs.

    But it does rather beg the question. Who would then fill the low wage jobs in the supermarkets or call centres that you refer to?
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Red Wallers voted for levelling up

    Since the Brown Bust in 2008 the growth and recovery in the economy has been heavily skewed towards the South.

    Other regions of the country just about recovered in comparison.

    When the reality is low wage jobs in call centres or supermarkets and Brexit offers an improvement on that, and remain offers more of the same, why not vote for improvement. What do you have to lose anyway ? Min wage jobs in a call centre ?

    The Tories have achieved no levelling up. So these voters will now return to Labour.
    Only some. Look at the polling on 2019 Tory voters. How many DK or saying won’t vote.

    Labour has taken some, far more won’t vote or don’t know.
    In general I think it's a good thing these voters are not "owned" anymore.

    However, the evidence is quite clear. Even on a bad night Labour will take the Red Wall back - the Tories have essentially admitted this with MPs resigning and their approach now targeting the South.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,270
    Sandpit said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic. Biden does seem an old 80 year old.

    But is the Presidential Election a Presidential Election? Or is it a change administration election? In which case it’s actually the change it to what election. And the, I am happy with the administration carrying on 4 years, but he is old for eighty, and a bit doddery, so what happens if something happens in the next 4 years, what happens then? To which the answer is working out what happens if something were to happen, such as veep being more a voter consideration than perhaps normal. I personally think they don’t swap round enough mid term in the administration. I’ll give you an example. If veep went to Secretary of State, it would probably do more for her campaign in 4 years than staying at veep, whilst if buttlegieg filled her hole it would do wonders for him in 4 years too, so why not be a president who cares about succession. But buttlegieg as veep would do wonders for Biden’s election chances too as people wonder what might happen if something happens would know that some one quite capable would be the happening thing.

    I know plenty of 80 year olds: Biden is not an old 80.

    But he is still 80 years old.
    Good morning

    My wife would endorse your comment as applied to myself as I near my 80th birthday
    I've just had mine.

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic. Biden does seem an old 80 year old.

    But is the Presidential Election a Presidential Election? Or is it a change administration election? In which case it’s actually the change it to what election. And the, I am happy with the administration carrying on 4 years, but he is old for eighty, and a bit doddery, so what happens if something happens in the next 4 years, what happens then? To which the answer is working out what happens if something were to happen, such as veep being more a voter consideration than perhaps normal. I personally think they don’t swap round enough mid term in the administration. I’ll give you an example. If veep went to Secretary of State, it would probably do more for her campaign in 4 years than staying at veep, whilst if buttlegieg filled her hole it would do wonders for him in 4 years too, so why not be a president who cares about succession. But buttlegieg as veep would do wonders for Biden’s election chances too as people wonder what might happen if something happens would know that some one quite capable would be the happening thing.

    I know plenty of 80 year olds: Biden is not an old 80.

    But he is still 80 years old.
    Good morning

    My wife would endorse your comment as applied to myself as I near my 80th birthday
    I've just had mine. Mick Jagger is 80 next month. 80 is just a number.
    Indeed, Al Pacino a dad again at 83. Jagger was a dad again at 73 as well as being a great grandad
    The utter selfishness of fathering a child at 83 appals me. Will the child ever know it’s father and what effect will that have on it, for all the money he or she will inherit?
    Indeed, though Pacino did allegedly have a DNA test to check the child his 29 year old girlfriend is having was definitely his.

    Pacino has a net worth of $183 million, so the child will be well provided for but that doesn't make up for the fact it will barely get to know its Dad. Indeed Pacino could be its great grandad let alone its father
    That is true, but losing a parent is not uncommon. Wasn't it recently reported that many Prime Ministers came from one-parent families?
    I would assume the greatest problem with losing a parent is poverty and/orthe other parent not there because they are working all the time, which is not necessarily an issue if you are rich. Dealing with the consequences of having famous parent(s) I would think is the bigger concern for a rich one parent family.

    Also not all parents are great. One parent may be better than 2 if one is abusive or not a caring parent.
    I was reading an article the other week about rapper Eminem’s daughter, who somehow turned out completely normal, got a degree and a regular job, and is getting married.

    So it can be done, but she’s the exception rather than the rule. IIRC she was sent away to a boarding school, so was friends with a lot of old money kids, rather than a load of rappers and drugs in Detroit.
    You may enjoy this book: https://amzn.to/3N6oq9V "How's Your Dad: The Sons and Daughters of Rock Royalty" by Zoe Street Howe (herself the daughter-in-law of Yes's Steve Howe). Lots of examples of kids doing OK.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,631

    Andy_JS said:

    "Phillip Schofield: 'Do you want me to die? Because that’s where I am'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/phillip-schofield-interview-amol-rajan-bbc-sun/

    I am surprised no-one has noticed the pure homophobia that is driving this story. If he had been heterosexual and had sex with a 19 year old woman it would not have even been a story. As he is gay, they have to assume that he "groomed" the young man. It is credit to Schofield that he has taken the stance he has.
    Quite a bit driving the story is merely revenge from people he has crossed or had over.

    But I did post a link to this story of a Tv presenter on Coast who first met her husband when he was 12 and she was his teacher earlier in the week. A rather more fawning article.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2146126/Tessa-Dunlop-Presenter-TVs-Coast-tells-extraordinary-story-met-husband.html
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,631

    I think Starmer is going to find things more difficult in office than Biden because of these differences. You think I am continuing to underrate him.

    If Starmer operates as successfully in Government as opposition, Labour will be in government for a decade.
    If Labour enter government then I think the Tory opposition is likely to be shambolic enough that Labour won't have to do that well to stay in government for quite a while, so that's quite a low bar.
    They’re already shambolic enough in government,
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,578
    Dura_Ace said:

    The way back for the Conservative’s is Thatcherism. A LOTO Penny & Truss shadow chancellor Partnership

    I can't tell if this is drink fuelled stream-of-semiconsciousness or satirical performance art. Why not John Redwood for Archbishop of Canterbury and Mark Francois playing as libero in the England team? Anything's possible!
    You don’t like or rate them, it’s obvious. Maybe it’s easier for me to put a Conservative Party head on than you, but I am making a serious point about direction the Party must take after defeat.

    It could go down the Nat-C woke war route of more populism. That’s a Siren call imo. That leads onto rocks or even more irrelevance with the new generations of voters coming through.

    Both Penny and Liz would put all that straight in the bin. Instead they would both look back to when Conservatives were last doing great for this country, Halcyon summer of eighties economic liberalism for their ethos now - aspiration, sound finance and relate it to the problems facing this country today. Planning laws and other structural rigidities keep Britain poorer than it should be, our merchant banks made us great once and the City can again, our advantage lies in professional services, ease of doing business and a capital city on which all the world converges. Levelling up is just pretend that ancient mismatch in scale and wealth between London and the secondary cities their regions can ever be levelled, therefore not an honest policy platform. If the Conservative Party can now never remove the top rate of tax Gordon Brown only sneaked on in 2010 as a “sly gift” knowing it’s his last ever budget, then what sort of economics does the Conservative Party stand for?

    It’s a clear ethos and policy platform, based on economic liberalism and Thatcherism. And of the directions the party can go in out of the mess they are in, it’s the best one. Ignore what someone like MarqueeMark will post - that the Tories will bounce back to popularity soon after the next election - they have lost the country and it’s hard work over the next decade to get it back.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    Dura_Ace said:

    The way back for the Conservative’s is Thatcherism. A LOTO Penny & Truss shadow chancellor Partnership

    I can't tell if this is drink fuelled stream-of-semiconsciousness or satirical performance art. Why not John Redwood for Archbishop of Canterbury and Mark Francois playing as libero in the England team? Anything's possible!
    You don’t like or rate them, it’s obvious. Maybe it’s easier for me to put a Conservative Party head on than you, but I am making a serious point about direction the Party must take after defeat.

    It could go down the Nat-C woke war route of more populism. That’s a Siren call imo. That leads onto rocks or even more irrelevance with the new generations of voters coming through.

    Both Penny and Liz would put all that straight in the bin. Instead they would both look back to when Conservatives were last doing great for this country, Halcyon summer of eighties economic liberalism for their ethos now - aspiration, sound finance and relate it to the problems facing this country today. Planning laws and other structural rigidities keep Britain poorer than it should be, our merchant banks made us great once and the City can again, our advantage lies in professional services, ease of doing business and a capital city on which all the world converges. Levelling up is just pretend that ancient mismatch in scale and wealth between London and the secondary cities their regions can ever be levelled, therefore not an honest policy platform. If the Conservative Party can now never remove the top rate of tax Gordon Brown only sneaked on in 2010 as a “sly gift” knowing it’s his last ever budget, then what sort of economics does the Conservative Party stand for?

    It’s a clear ethos and policy platform, based on economic liberalism and Thatcherism. And of the directions the party can go in out of the mess they are in, it’s the best one. Ignore what someone like MarqueeMark will post - that the Tories will bounce back to popularity soon after the next election - they have lost the country and it’s hard work over the next decade to get it back.
    Is it fair to say Moon that your views change on an hourly basis?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,558

    I think Starmer is going to find things more difficult in office than Biden because of these differences. You think I am continuing to underrate him.

    If Starmer operates as successfully in Government as opposition, Labour will be in government for a decade.
    If Labour enter government then I think the Tory opposition is likely to be shambolic enough that Labour won't have to do that well to stay in government for quite a while, so that's quite a low bar.
    Most governments normally get 10 years in power post war, the Tory government of 1951-1964, Tory government of 1979-1997, Labour government of 1997-2010 and Tory government of 2010-2023. Even the Attlee government got 48% of the vote in 1951 and won the popular vote.

    However that is provided they avoid high unemployment and get strikes and inflation down. If they don't they can swiftly be removed, see the Wilson government of 1970, the Heath government of 1974 and the Callaghan government of 1979
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    If Scofield ends up committing suicide the press will do a 180 at they did with Caroline Flack.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,631
    edited June 2023

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Haha, suck it up farmers, this is what you voted for in 2016.

    Farmers join the list of people betrayed by Boris Johnson.

    How Boris Johnson sold out Britain’s farmers over dinner with the Australian PM

    As the UK-Australia trade deal comes into force, those close to the negotiations reflect on their dramatic — and farcical — climax.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-sold-out-uk-farmers-australia-trade-deal-uk/

    So one day you’re bemoaning food price inflation, and the next you’re bemoning the government agreeing imports of cheaper sources of food?
    No I'm laughing at the cuck farmers.

    Nearly as funny as like the Red Wallers cucks and Leon who voted for fewer immigrants and now are seeing record breaking migration.
    Does it ever occur to you that those red wallers might have got fed up with a cabal whose principal purpose is and always has been the enrichment and protection of the French farmer and actually wanted the option of cheaper food?
    Red Wallers voted for levelling up

    Since the Brown Bust in 2008 the growth and recovery in the economy has been heavily skewed towards the South.

    Other regions of the country just about recovered in comparison.

    When the reality is low wage jobs in call centres or supermarkets and Brexit offers an improvement on that, and remain offers more of the same, why not vote for improvement. What do you have to lose anyway ? Min wage jobs in a call centre ?
    It would be great if everybody in the Red Wall benefited from Brexit by getting high wage, high status jobs.

    But it does rather beg the question. Who would then fill the low wage jobs in the supermarkets or call centres that you refer to?
    Well those jobs are still needed but it is the higher wage, skilled jobs, these areas are lacking and sees younger people and aspirational people often have to move away. Look at how the age profile has changed in places like Hartlepool and Bishop Auckland for example

    It would just be nice if these jobs were created in these regions as well.

    We have had uneven growth in wealth.

    Quite what the solution is I don’t know but it is not unreasonable that poorer areas want a bigger piece of the pie. Osborne recognised it and tried to do something’s

    Govt strategy now seems to be Freeport’s and moving some govt jobs around. Cannot see it working.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,558

    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think you're missing the big story from yesterday, an 80 year old man got it up really quickly.

    Nah, the big story is the debt ceiling and Ron DeSantis being a snowflake and losing his rag with a reporter.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/ron-desantis-lashes-reporter-are-blind-rcna87246

    That will go down very badly in NH.
    Whereas Biden went down fortunately not too badly in Colorado.
    If he really had dementia, he likely wouldn't have put out his arms to break his fall.
    Its not just dementia - reflexes can go with ageing. My mum, not yet 80, managed to face plant while out running a few months ago. No injuries to her hands and arms - implies didn't react fast enough.

    Biden is fine, but its sad that there seems to be no slightly younger candidates to take the pressure off him.
    Would a younger candidate have got the debt ceiling deal done quietly and efficiently?

    Thats the kind of politicking I admire. No-one likes the deal, everyone takes a small hit from it, and a bigger one from their own base, but the alternatives, for everyone, were all worse.

    With most modern politicians that would have resulted in long delays, markets tanking, investments delayed, employees furloughed and plunged into more financial stress, before eventually reaching a similar deal after a couple of months of pointless egotistical grandstanding.

    Very well done Joe in avoiding all that, I hope the electorate realise they have a good one there.
    I don't think there was any real danger that the US would have allowed itself to default - they do this every few years, after all.

    All the deal has done is pushed the reckoning for Biden's (and Congress's) wildly irresponsible fiscal policy another few years down the line. Maybe that's the best he could have achieved, but it doesn't make him a good one at anything other than moving the sludge through the pipes of Congress, no matter how damaging that is in the medium and long term.
    Thirty-Six Republican Senators voted against the deal that went through Congress. The direction of travel of the Republicans is pretty clear, and one of the things it is trending towards is a US debt default.
    Senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren also voted against the Deal, leftwing Democrats joined Trumpite hard righwingers in a rare alliance and it was only centrist Democrats and centrist Republicans who got it through. The left thought it didn't spend enough, the right thought it spent and taxed too much
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,326
    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Phillip Schofield: 'Do you want me to die? Because that’s where I am'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/phillip-schofield-interview-amol-rajan-bbc-sun/

    I am surprised no-one has noticed the pure homophobia that is driving this story. If he had been heterosexual and had sex with a 19 year old woman it would not have even been a story. As he is gay, they have to assume that he "groomed" the young man. It is credit to Schofield that he has taken the stance he has.
    Quite a bit driving the story is merely revenge from people he has crossed or had over.

    But I did post a link to this story of a Tv presenter on Coast who first met her husband when he was 12 and she was his teacher earlier in the week. A rather more fawning article.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2146126/Tessa-Dunlop-Presenter-TVs-Coast-tells-extraordinary-story-met-husband.html
    Now there’s an eye-opening comparison.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,281

    If Scofield ends up committing suicide the press will do a 180 at they did with Caroline Flack.

    What happens if Prince Andrew decides it's all too much ?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,415
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Never change Scotland.

    A funeral parlour is offering the bereaved coffins with designs of a Greggs sausage roll, a pint of Tennent’s lager or a can of Irn-Bru.

    The Edinburgh undertaker Go As You Please Funerals allows patrons to pick any photo or design to be printed on a wooden coffin, inspired by favourite movies, musicians or even soft drinks.

    Murdo Chambers, the parlour’s manager, said the quirky coffins challenge preconceived notions of what a funeral should look like.






    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/meet-your-maker-in-a-quirky-coffin-80xpn0g5k

    Not quite as good as Ghana, but getting there:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2013/feb/07/ghana-coffins-in-pictures?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    They had an exhibition of them in Edinburgh some years back, like this very upmarket one:

    https://www.nms.ac.uk/explore-our-
    collections/stories/global-arts-cultures-and-design/mercedes-benz-coffin/
    With the increasingly less sombre style of funeral on the rise (ACDC "Highway to Hell" as funeral music etc) I think that Ghana coffins would sell well here. A good business for the right entrepreneur.
    My brother used Highway to Hell as his music. It was fine. I think that the important thing to remember is that funerals are about the living, not the dead who are gone. If it gives closure and some comfort to those left behind it has achieved its purpose.
    We played my mum's favourite song at hers, but it was Forever Autumn so still sounded appropriately melancholy.

    They did use a version without the Richard Burton bits talking about the massacre of mankind though.
    Peter Sellers asked for 'In The Mood' to be played at his funeral, because he hated it and wouldn't be able to hear it.

    I am having 'Come On Eileen' by Dexy's Midnight Runners played at mine, so that all those bastards present who have outlived me suffer for a few minutes.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,332
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Haha, suck it up farmers, this is what you voted for in 2016.

    Farmers join the list of people betrayed by Boris Johnson.

    How Boris Johnson sold out Britain’s farmers over dinner with the Australian PM

    As the UK-Australia trade deal comes into force, those close to the negotiations reflect on their dramatic — and farcical — climax.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-sold-out-uk-farmers-australia-trade-deal-uk/

    So one day you’re bemoaning food price inflation, and the next you’re bemoning the government agreeing imports of cheaper sources of food?
    No I'm laughing at the cuck farmers.

    Nearly as funny as like the Red Wallers cucks and Leon who voted for fewer immigrants and now are seeing record breaking migration.
    Does it ever occur to you that those red wallers might have got fed up with a cabal whose principal purpose is and always has been the enrichment and protection of the French farmer and actually wanted the option of cheaper food?
    Red Wallers voted for levelling up

    Since the Brown Bust in 2008 the growth and recovery in the economy has been heavily skewed towards the South.

    Other regions of the country just about recovered in comparison.

    When the reality is low wage jobs in call centres or supermarkets and Brexit offers an improvement on that, and remain offers more of the same, why not vote for improvement. What do you have to lose anyway ? Min wage jobs in a call centre ?
    It would be great if everybody in the Red Wall benefited from Brexit by getting high wage, high status jobs.

    But it does rather beg the question. Who would then fill the low wage jobs in the supermarkets or call centres that you refer to?
    Well those jobs are still needed but it is the higher wage, skilled jobs, these areas are lacking and sees younger people and aspirational people often have to move away. Look at how the age profile has changed in places like Hartlepool and Bishop Auckland for example

    It would just be nice if these jobs were created in these regions as well.

    We have had uneven growth in wealth.

    Quite what the solution is I don’t know but it is not unreasonable that poorer areas want a bigger piece of the pie. Osborne recognised it and tried to do something’s

    Govt strategy now seems to be Freeport’s and moving some govt jobs around. Cannot see it working.
    Especially given that the UK's door is still very open for migration of high-wage workers.

    I'm not sure I like the Singapore/Middle East model of getting migrants in to do the low pay rubbish jobs, but I can understand the nationalist logic of it.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,187
    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Phillip Schofield: 'Do you want me to die? Because that’s where I am'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/phillip-schofield-interview-amol-rajan-bbc-sun/

    I am surprised no-one has noticed the pure homophobia that is driving this story. If he had been heterosexual and had sex with a 19 year old woman it would not have even been a story. As he is gay, they have to assume that he "groomed" the young man. It is credit to Schofield that he has taken the stance he has.
    Quite a bit driving the story is merely revenge from people he has crossed or had over.

    But I did post a link to this story of a Tv presenter on Coast who first met her husband when he was 12 and she was his teacher earlier in the week. A rather more fawning article.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2146126/Tessa-Dunlop-Presenter-TVs-Coast-tells-extraordinary-story-met-husband.html
    Grooming is a bit of an irregular verb. You can add Emmanuel Macron to the list as well.

    I think the Schofield situation is a bit more complicated given that this guy ended up working at ITV. It's the power dynamics that's a bit troubling.

    But, to be honest, unless the guy has anything else to say, this should really be the end of the matter and everyone should move on.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,578

    Dura_Ace said:

    The way back for the Conservative’s is Thatcherism. A LOTO Penny & Truss shadow chancellor Partnership

    I can't tell if this is drink fuelled stream-of-semiconsciousness or satirical performance art. Why not John Redwood for Archbishop of Canterbury and Mark Francois playing as libero in the England team? Anything's possible!
    You don’t like or rate them, it’s obvious. Maybe it’s easier for me to put a Conservative Party head on than you, but I am making a serious point about direction the Party must take after defeat.

    It could go down the Nat-C woke war route of more populism. That’s a Siren call imo. That leads onto rocks or even more irrelevance with the new generations of voters coming through.

    Both Penny and Liz would put all that straight in the bin. Instead they would both look back to when Conservatives were last doing great for this country, Halcyon summer of eighties economic liberalism for their ethos now - aspiration, sound finance and relate it to the problems facing this country today. Planning laws and other structural rigidities keep Britain poorer than it should be, our merchant banks made us great once and the City can again, our advantage lies in professional services, ease of doing business and a capital city on which all the world converges. Levelling up is just pretend that ancient mismatch in scale and wealth between London and the secondary cities their regions can ever be levelled, therefore not an honest policy platform. If the Conservative Party can now never remove the top rate of tax Gordon Brown only sneaked on in 2010 as a “sly gift” knowing it’s his last ever budget, then what sort of economics does the Conservative Party stand for?

    It’s a clear ethos and policy platform, based on economic liberalism and Thatcherism. And of the directions the party can go in out of the mess they are in, it’s the best one. Ignore what someone like MarqueeMark will post - that the Tories will bounce back to popularity soon after the next election - they have lost the country and it’s hard work over the next decade to get it back.
    Is it fair to say Moon that your views change on an hourly basis?
    No not at all. I’ve been saying this same thing about best direction for Tories to go for a whole year.

    Instead of continuously going for the player not the ball, why don’t you comment and share your view on what I post sometimes? Starting with the thoughts I just posted.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,806
    edited June 2023

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Never change Scotland.

    A funeral parlour is offering the bereaved coffins with designs of a Greggs sausage roll, a pint of Tennent’s lager or a can of Irn-Bru.

    The Edinburgh undertaker Go As You Please Funerals allows patrons to pick any photo or design to be printed on a wooden coffin, inspired by favourite movies, musicians or even soft drinks.

    Murdo Chambers, the parlour’s manager, said the quirky coffins challenge preconceived notions of what a funeral should look like.






    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/meet-your-maker-in-a-quirky-coffin-80xpn0g5k

    Not quite as good as Ghana, but getting there:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2013/feb/07/ghana-coffins-in-pictures?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    They had an exhibition of them in Edinburgh some years back, like this very upmarket one:

    https://www.nms.ac.uk/explore-our-
    collections/stories/global-arts-cultures-and-design/mercedes-benz-coffin/
    With the increasingly less sombre style of funeral on the rise (ACDC "Highway to Hell" as funeral music etc) I think that Ghana coffins would sell well here. A good business for the right entrepreneur.
    My brother used Highway to Hell as his music. It was fine. I think that the important thing to remember is that funerals are about the living, not the dead who are gone. If it gives closure and some comfort to those left behind it has achieved its purpose.
    We played my mum's favourite song at hers, but it was Forever Autumn so still sounded appropriately melancholy.

    They did use a version without the Richard Burton bits talking about the massacre of mankind though.
    Peter Sellers asked for 'In The Mood' to be played at his funeral, because he hated it and wouldn't be able to hear it.

    I am having 'Come On Eileen' by Dexy's Midnight Runners played at mine, so that all those bastards present who have outlived me suffer for a few minutes.
    My father in law has 'So What' on his list, mainly for the title (Miles Davis, rather than Pink - I think!)

    ETA: A guy I new who died in an accident at 23 had Metallica's Nothing Else Matters (he was a big fan) and it was very moving. Vicar's face was a bit of a picture.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,558
    edited June 2023

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Haha, suck it up farmers, this is what you voted for in 2016.

    Farmers join the list of people betrayed by Boris Johnson.

    How Boris Johnson sold out Britain’s farmers over dinner with the Australian PM

    As the UK-Australia trade deal comes into force, those close to the negotiations reflect on their dramatic — and farcical — climax.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-sold-out-uk-farmers-australia-trade-deal-uk/

    No mention of the British cheese and Welsh lamb and English wine and Scotch whisky that could now go to Australia tariff free? Or the vegemite we now can get more easily? For goodness sake we have only managed to get 2 trade deals of any significance we did not already have with the EU, with Australia and New Zealand. Both Commonwealth realms, English speaking with populations of mainly British Isles ancestry. If we couldn't get trade deals with them, who could we get trade deals with? Yet for diehard Remainers even those trade deals are too far?
    But they’re shit trade deals negotiated by a shit PM. What do you want us to do? Celebrate any old crap labelled a “trade deal”?
    It might be worth mentioning that HYUFD is a "remainer" too. He is, however, one of those oddities that in spite of a tsunami of evidence, has shifted from the side where logic lies to the side where pure naivety, political and economic stupidity resides. While most people flee from an engulfing fire, I guess there are some, that in pure terror, run straight toward it.
    I forgot, we also now have a trade deal with Kenya to add to the trade deals with Australia and NZ we wouldn't have had in the EU!
    https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/uk-kenya-economic-partnership-agreement
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,631

    Cyclefree said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Phillip Schofield: 'Do you want me to die? Because that’s where I am'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/phillip-schofield-interview-amol-rajan-bbc-sun/

    I am surprised no-one has noticed the pure homophobia that is driving this story. If he had been heterosexual and had sex with a 19 year old woman it would not have even been a story. As he is gay, they have to assume that he "groomed" the young man. It is credit to Schofield that he has taken the stance he has.
    It's the lying which has done for him. Not the affair.

    Are there no examples of men taking young girls decades younger under their wing, offering them jobs, roles in films, for instance, and then also embarking on sexual/romantic relationships?

    And no examples at all of such behaviour being criticised?

    Absolutely none at all?
    The distasteful bit isn't that Schofield's career is dead so much as the ongoing stabbing of the corpse. That feels pretty vindictive.

    It's what the British press tend to do, of course. With one side order of homophobia to make their readers' flesh creep and another of midmarket newspapers seeing a way to do down their commercial rivals in midmarket TV.

    Schofield has clearly messed up his life in important ways and hurt people as a result. But the "without sin/first stone" principle is a good one.
    There’s a bit in Popbitch this week about when a young Pip met Jimmy Savile (of all people !!) whose advice to him was ‘be nice to people on the way up as you’ll need them all on the way down’

    He’s finding out the hard way.

    Is is any wonder people he has crossed large enjoying their revenge.

    You are also getting people jumping on the bandwagon to get some attention. That’s a little unseemly.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    Dura_Ace said:

    The way back for the Conservative’s is Thatcherism. A LOTO Penny & Truss shadow chancellor Partnership

    I can't tell if this is drink fuelled stream-of-semiconsciousness or satirical performance art. Why not John Redwood for Archbishop of Canterbury and Mark Francois playing as libero in the England team? Anything's possible!
    You don’t like or rate them, it’s obvious. Maybe it’s easier for me to put a Conservative Party head on than you, but I am making a serious point about direction the Party must take after defeat.

    It could go down the Nat-C woke war route of more populism. That’s a Siren call imo. That leads onto rocks or even more irrelevance with the new generations of voters coming through.

    Both Penny and Liz would put all that straight in the bin. Instead they would both look back to when Conservatives were last doing great for this country, Halcyon summer of eighties economic liberalism for their ethos now - aspiration, sound finance and relate it to the problems facing this country today. Planning laws and other structural rigidities keep Britain poorer than it should be, our merchant banks made us great once and the City can again, our advantage lies in professional services, ease of doing business and a capital city on which all the world converges. Levelling up is just pretend that ancient mismatch in scale and wealth between London and the secondary cities their regions can ever be levelled, therefore not an honest policy platform. If the Conservative Party can now never remove the top rate of tax Gordon Brown only sneaked on in 2010 as a “sly gift” knowing it’s his last ever budget, then what sort of economics does the Conservative Party stand for?

    It’s a clear ethos and policy platform, based on economic liberalism and Thatcherism. And of the directions the party can go in out of the mess they are in, it’s the best one. Ignore what someone like MarqueeMark will post - that the Tories will bounce back to popularity soon after the next election - they have lost the country and it’s hard work over the next decade to get it back.
    Is it fair to say Moon that your views change on an hourly basis?
    No not at all. I’ve been saying this same thing about best direction for Tories to go for a whole year.

    Instead of continuously going for the player not the ball, why don’t you comment and share your view on what I post sometimes? Starting with the thoughts I just posted.
    I think what you posted is absolute nonsense - that even you don't really believe.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,757
    tlg86 said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Phillip Schofield: 'Do you want me to die? Because that’s where I am'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/phillip-schofield-interview-amol-rajan-bbc-sun/

    I am surprised no-one has noticed the pure homophobia that is driving this story. If he had been heterosexual and had sex with a 19 year old woman it would not have even been a story. As he is gay, they have to assume that he "groomed" the young man. It is credit to Schofield that he has taken the stance he has.
    Quite a bit driving the story is merely revenge from people he has crossed or had over.

    But I did post a link to this story of a Tv presenter on Coast who first met her husband when he was 12 and she was his teacher earlier in the week. A rather more fawning article.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2146126/Tessa-Dunlop-Presenter-TVs-Coast-tells-extraordinary-story-met-husband.html
    Grooming is a bit of an irregular verb. You can add Emmanuel Macron to the list as well.

    I think the Schofield situation is a bit more complicated given that this guy ended up working at ITV. It's the power dynamics that's a bit troubling.

    But, to be honest, unless the guy has anything else to say, this should really be the end of the matter and everyone should move on.
    It does appear that he’s upset an awful lot of people over the years, and everyone who worked with him covered up this affair, including the station bosses.

    Still not sure why it’s still headline news in the British press though, there’s a lot going on in the rest of the world this week.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,578
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Haha, suck it up farmers, this is what you voted for in 2016.

    Farmers join the list of people betrayed by Boris Johnson.

    How Boris Johnson sold out Britain’s farmers over dinner with the Australian PM

    As the UK-Australia trade deal comes into force, those close to the negotiations reflect on their dramatic — and farcical — climax.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-sold-out-uk-farmers-australia-trade-deal-uk/

    No mention of the British cheese and Welsh lamb and English wine and Scotch whisky that could now go to Australia tariff free? Or the vegemite we now can get more easily? For goodness sake we have only managed to get 2 trade deals of any significance we did not already have with the EU, with Australia and New Zealand. Both Commonwealth realms, English speaking with populations of mainly British Isles ancestry. If we couldn't get trade deals with them, who could we get trade deals with? Yet for diehard Remainers even those trade deals are too far?
    But they’re shit trade deals negotiated by a shit PM. What do you want us to do? Celebrate any old crap labelled a “trade deal”?
    It might be worth mentioning that HYUFD is a "remainer" too. He is, however, one of those oddities that in spite of a tsunami of evidence, has shifted from the side where logic lies to the side where pure naivety, political and economic stupidity resides. While most people flee from an engulfing fire, I guess there are some, that in pure terror, run straight toward it.
    I forgot, we also now have a trade deal with Kenya to add to the trade deals with Australia and NZ we wouldn't have had in the EU!
    https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/uk-kenya-economic-partnership-agreement
    Our farming industry sold down the Ganges and Congo by the Tories for forty pieces of silver. This is what this spell of Tory government will be remembered for.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,961

    Andy_JS said:

    "Phillip Schofield: 'Do you want me to die? Because that’s where I am'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/phillip-schofield-interview-amol-rajan-bbc-sun/

    I am surprised no-one has noticed the pure homophobia that is driving this story. If he had been heterosexual and had sex with a 19 year old woman it would not have even been a story. As he is gay, they have to assume that he "groomed" the young man. It is credit to Schofield that he has taken the stance he has.
    There is an element of this but it is also that we have lost the art of grading human "wrong-doing" sensibly. Celebs are either portrayed as lovely role models with perfect lives or the anti-Christ with little in between.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,806
    edited June 2023
    Pulpstar said:

    If Scofield ends up committing suicide the press will do a 180 at they did with Caroline Flack.

    What happens if Prince Andrew decides it's all too much ?
    The brave navy pilot played a pivotal role in the Falklands conflict and was much loved for the colour he brought to the Royal Family. A tearful Emily Maitlis recalled his undoubted sincerity in her landmark interview that finally dispelled the unsvaoury rumours that had unfairly dogged him for so long.

    ETA: And that sketch with the politicans... Was it Not the Nine O'Clock News?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,578

    Dura_Ace said:

    The way back for the Conservative’s is Thatcherism. A LOTO Penny & Truss shadow chancellor Partnership

    I can't tell if this is drink fuelled stream-of-semiconsciousness or satirical performance art. Why not John Redwood for Archbishop of Canterbury and Mark Francois playing as libero in the England team? Anything's possible!
    You don’t like or rate them, it’s obvious. Maybe it’s easier for me to put a Conservative Party head on than you, but I am making a serious point about direction the Party must take after defeat.

    It could go down the Nat-C woke war route of more populism. That’s a Siren call imo. That leads onto rocks or even more irrelevance with the new generations of voters coming through.

    Both Penny and Liz would put all that straight in the bin. Instead they would both look back to when Conservatives were last doing great for this country, Halcyon summer of eighties economic liberalism for their ethos now - aspiration, sound finance and relate it to the problems facing this country today. Planning laws and other structural rigidities keep Britain poorer than it should be, our merchant banks made us great once and the City can again, our advantage lies in professional services, ease of doing business and a capital city on which all the world converges. Levelling up is just pretend that ancient mismatch in scale and wealth between London and the secondary cities their regions can ever be levelled, therefore not an honest policy platform. If the Conservative Party can now never remove the top rate of tax Gordon Brown only sneaked on in 2010 as a “sly gift” knowing it’s his last ever budget, then what sort of economics does the Conservative Party stand for?

    It’s a clear ethos and policy platform, based on economic liberalism and Thatcherism. And of the directions the party can go in out of the mess they are in, it’s the best one. Ignore what someone like MarqueeMark will post - that the Tories will bounce back to popularity soon after the next election - they have lost the country and it’s hard work over the next decade to get it back.
    Is it fair to say Moon that your views change on an hourly basis?
    No not at all. I’ve been saying this same thing about best direction for Tories to go for a whole year.

    Instead of continuously going for the player not the ball, why don’t you comment and share your view on what I post sometimes? Starting with the thoughts I just posted.
    I think what you posted is absolute nonsense - that even you don't really believe.
    I always post with heart and brain properly hooked up, and it’s more consistent heart and brain dumps than you are spinning it,

    Your a bias spinner mister “30% incoming!”
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,656
    .

    Noticed this interesting double-peak structure in the output from gas power stations in the UK. This is a sign of the peak output from PV solar supplying a lot of electricity around the middle of the day, and reducing the amount of gas burnt.

    I haven't noticed it before, but the recent high pressure only a few weeks from the solstice is ideal for solar PV.


    (From gridwatch)

    Interesting thread on renewables (I agree with the conclusions).

    You often hear that "electricity is only around 20% of global primary energy", so even if we manage to convert all electricity to low-carbon sources, it won't really make much difference.

    That is highly misleading...

    https://twitter.com/BarclayBenedict/status/1664550003979833345

    Note also, as large amounts of transport convert to electric power, the heat loss bit works additionally to the benefit of renewables in the calculation.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,558
    edited June 2023

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Haha, suck it up farmers, this is what you voted for in 2016.

    Farmers join the list of people betrayed by Boris Johnson.

    How Boris Johnson sold out Britain’s farmers over dinner with the Australian PM

    As the UK-Australia trade deal comes into force, those close to the negotiations reflect on their dramatic — and farcical — climax.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-sold-out-uk-farmers-australia-trade-deal-uk/

    No mention of the British cheese and Welsh lamb and English wine and Scotch whisky that could now go to Australia tariff free? Or the vegemite we now can get more easily? For goodness sake we have only managed to get 2 trade deals of any significance we did not already have with the EU, with Australia and New Zealand. Both Commonwealth realms, English speaking with populations of mainly British Isles ancestry. If we couldn't get trade deals with them, who could we get trade deals with? Yet for diehard Remainers even those trade deals are too far?
    But they’re shit trade deals negotiated by a shit PM. What do you want us to do? Celebrate any old crap labelled a “trade deal”?
    It might be worth mentioning that HYUFD is a "remainer" too. He is, however, one of those oddities that in spite of a tsunami of evidence, has shifted from the side where logic lies to the side where pure naivety, political and economic stupidity resides. While most people flee from an engulfing fire, I guess there are some, that in pure terror, run straight toward it.
    I forgot, we also now have a trade deal with Kenya to add to the trade deals with Australia and NZ we wouldn't have had in the EU!
    https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/uk-kenya-economic-partnership-agreement
    Our farming industry sold down the Ganges and Congo by the Tories for forty pieces of silver. This is what this spell of Tory government will be remembered for.
    We had far more meat and dairy and corn products from EU farmers tariff free when in the EU which now have some trade barriers than the small number of Australian and Kiwi and Kenyan imports we now have tariff free (and largely with the same barriers EU farming imports now have to face anyway).

    Plus our farmers can export more tariff free to Australia, NZ and Kenya in turn and the EU are negotiating trade deals with Australia and Kenya anyway
    https://www.euractiv.com/section/economy-jobs/news/eu-aims-to-seal-trade-deals-with-australia-kenya-in-a-few-months/
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,961

    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think you're missing the big story from yesterday, an 80 year old man got it up really quickly.

    Nah, the big story is the debt ceiling and Ron DeSantis being a snowflake and losing his rag with a reporter.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/ron-desantis-lashes-reporter-are-blind-rcna87246

    That will go down very badly in NH.
    Whereas Biden went down fortunately not too badly in Colorado.
    If he really had dementia, he likely wouldn't have put out his arms to break his fall.
    Its not just dementia - reflexes can go with ageing. My mum, not yet 80, managed to face plant while out running a few months ago. No injuries to her hands and arms - implies didn't react fast enough.

    Biden is fine, but its sad that there seems to be no slightly younger candidates to take the pressure off him.
    Would a younger candidate have got the debt ceiling deal done quietly and efficiently?

    Thats the kind of politicking I admire. No-one likes the deal, everyone takes a small hit from it, and a bigger one from their own base, but the alternatives, for everyone, were all worse.

    With most modern politicians that would have resulted in long delays, markets tanking, investments delayed, employees furloughed and plunged into more financial stress, before eventually reaching a similar deal after a couple of months of pointless egotistical grandstanding.

    Very well done Joe in avoiding all that, I hope the electorate realise they have a good one there.
    I don't think there was any real danger that the US would have allowed itself to default - they do this every few years, after all.

    All the deal has done is pushed the reckoning for Biden's (and Congress's) wildly irresponsible fiscal policy another few years down the line. Maybe that's the best he could have achieved, but it doesn't make him a good one at anything other than moving the sludge through the pipes of Congress, no matter how damaging that is in the medium and long term.
    Thirty-Six Republican Senators voted against the deal that went through Congress. The direction of travel of the Republicans is pretty clear, and one of the things it is trending towards is a US debt default.
    They will all be in favour of adding more Trumpian debt, as they were between 2017 aand 2021. Republican debt is good, Democratic debt is evil.
This discussion has been closed.