Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Ministers are not handling the COVID inquiry well – politicalbetting.com

24

Comments

  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,034

    ohnotnow said:

    My assumption in this manoeuvrer is that there's some really bad sh*t about Rishi (and/or current cabinet members) that they don't want published. If it was pure Boris I suspect it'd have been handed over in a jiffy.

    My assumption is none of them can remember what they said two or three years back and are worried something might turn up to embarrass them.
    There's a bit of that to be sure. But I imagine (possibly fancifully) that before they possibly kicked off a legal dispute with their own covid enquiry they'd have had a quick scan of it.

    Then I remember how sh*t they are in general and give myself a stern talking to.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I know Oxford has lower standards than, say, Cambridge, but how does someone this stupid get in?

    https://twitter.com/RobertBea/status/1663592272972087309

    You can now get into colleges like Lady Margaret Hall at Oxford with just 3 Bs at A level if you are assessed as a 'disadvantaged' student who went to a state school. Cambridge doing similar

    https://www.newstatesman.com/quickfire/2022/05/zahawi-misunderstands-why-oxbridge-lowers-grades-for-students-like-me
    Also: both Cambridge and Oxford have been very happy to give EE offers to students who impressed enormously at interview. (And, indeed, I got a EE offer from UCL.)
    Slacker. I got a UU offer from UCL.

    For those who weren’t around in the 90s, UCL would do this with groups of students with very high predicted grades. According to a prof, the actual results didn’t drop off much, if at all.

    Since I’d taken 2 A levels a year early, I got a place on the spot….
    The boasting by @rcs1000 that his daughter is smarter than him is touching and lovely, until one remembers that @rcs1000 is basically a car park attendant. Then it is a tad less impressive

    It's a form of false modesty and inverted boasting because rcs100 is well aware of regression to the mean, which implies - and he assumes we infer - that he's actually a tad brighter still.

    I've met him. He's not. He's a lovely guy, but car park software is about his right level. He has found his vocation
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,034

    geoffw said:

    We could do degrees of separation from Harriet Harman - a bit like the Erdős number beloved of mathematicians

    I'd like about 50.
    Is this a MILF reference? Or have I just been infected by TSE's headlines?
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,034
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    'A protestor has glued themselves to the floor of the Oxford Union in protest of the Kathleen Stock talk.

    Riz Possnett, a student activist is sitting in front of Prof Stock wearing a t-shirt emblazoned with the words “No More Dead Trans Kids”
    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1663591273607966721?s=20

    https://twitter.com/rizpossnett/status/1663591786240159744

    The chairs were too comfy?
  • WestieWestie Posts: 426
    edited May 2023
    ohnotnow said:

    My assumption in this manoeuvrer is that there's some really bad sh*t about Rishi (and/or current cabinet members) that they don't want published. If it was pure Boris I suspect it'd have been handed over in a jiffy.

    Probably also about high-powered visitors to Chequers who weren't ministers or politicians.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,803
    Leon said:

    Westie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I know Oxford has lower standards than, say, Cambridge, but how does someone this stupid get in?

    https://twitter.com/RobertBea/status/1663592272972087309

    You can now get into colleges like Lady Margaret Hall at Oxford with just 3 Bs at A level if you are assessed as a 'disadvantaged' student who went to a state school. Cambridge doing similar

    https://www.newstatesman.com/quickfire/2022/05/zahawi-misunderstands-why-oxbridge-lowers-grades-for-students-like-me
    Also: both Cambridge and Oxford have been very happy to give EE offers to students who impressed enormously at interview. (And, indeed, I got a EE offer from UCL.)
    Slacker. I got a UU offer from UCL.
    I got told it didn't matter what grades I got in anything or had ever got in anything, and that they'd accept me into Jesus College, Cambridge, regardless. Then again, I am a member of the royal family.
    I like others got an EE offer from UCL - and I was determined to go to London - and so I thought fuck it. UCL it is. Slack off

    I still had an interview at Bristol (then quite a snooty university) so I got my parents to give me the money for the train and all that, and instead went to a pub in Hereford and got drunk all day and played Space Invaders with some mates

    I then wrote a dismissive letter to Bristol Uni saying, please consider me in absentia, I'm busy. Basically: fuck off

    They still made me an offer. Two Ds. They really wanted me

    All this makes me realise my 6th form teachers must have written an incredibly flattering profile of me, which I did not deserve, as I was a total drunken wastrel nearly expelled from my 6th form college for drinking and gambling on college premises, age 17

    Scenes, eh, scenes

    That sounds like a story AI would create if asked to contribute to SeanT's autobiography.
  • On topic, I think this plays into the "not a moron, not a conman... but not very good at politics".

    Sunak can't afford to seem shifty on this... even if his lawyers have a point.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774
     
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I know Oxford has lower standards than, say, Cambridge, but how does someone this stupid get in?

    https://twitter.com/RobertBea/status/1663592272972087309

    You can now get into colleges like Lady Margaret Hall at Oxford with just 3 Bs at A level if you are assessed as a 'disadvantaged' student who went to a state school. Cambridge doing similar

    https://www.newstatesman.com/quickfire/2022/05/zahawi-misunderstands-why-oxbridge-lowers-grades-for-students-like-me
    Also: both Cambridge and Oxford have been very happy to give EE offers to students who impressed enormously at interview. (And, indeed, I got a EE offer from UCL.)
    Slacker. I got a UU offer from UCL.

    For those who weren’t around in the 90s, UCL would do this with groups of students with very high predicted grades. According to a prof, the actual results didn’t drop off much, if at all.

    Since I’d taken 2 A levels a year early, I got a place on the spot….
    The boasting by @rcs1000 that his daughter is smarter than him is touching and lovely, until one remembers that @rcs1000 is basically a car park attendant

    It is always impressive when kids can do something better than their parents.

    Fox jr2 had to do a still life for the school art prize once, never having done one before, and in his first year at secondary school. I suggested he do one for practice, and when I suggested that he needed to show 3 dimensions better, he demonstrated his technique for the highlights and shadows, within minutes they were on the paper.

    I was awed, and he won the prize. Later got an A at fine art A level.
    Well my granddaughter when at school had her Christmas picture painted on the Edinburgh trams as a prize for the artwork, so there

  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,034

    Today was the first day I've been to Sainsbury's without a mask.

    I know it's not quite Waitrose - but... ever? I hate to picture what you'd wear to go to Aldi...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    I think speculating what each poster's ideal vocation would be, based purely on their posts, would be a grand idea (where it is not already obvious what they do).
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491
    geoffw said:

    We could do degrees of separation from Harriet Harman - a bit like the Erdős number beloved of mathematicians

    Mine's 5. To Erdős. I am not aware of any relationship to Harman.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I know Oxford has lower standards than, say, Cambridge, but how does someone this stupid get in?

    https://twitter.com/RobertBea/status/1663592272972087309

    You can now get into colleges like Lady Margaret Hall at Oxford with just 3 Bs at A level if you are assessed as a 'disadvantaged' student who went to a state school. Cambridge doing similar

    https://www.newstatesman.com/quickfire/2022/05/zahawi-misunderstands-why-oxbridge-lowers-grades-for-students-like-me
    Also: both Cambridge and Oxford have been very happy to give EE offers to students who impressed enormously at interview. (And, indeed, I got a EE offer from UCL.)
    Slacker. I got a UU offer from UCL.

    For those who weren’t around in the 90s, UCL would do this with groups of students with very high predicted grades. According to a prof, the actual results didn’t drop off much, if at all.

    Since I’d taken 2 A levels a year early, I got a place on the spot….
    The boasting by @rcs1000 that his daughter is smarter than him is touching and lovely, until one remembers that @rcs1000 is basically a car park attendant

    It is always impressive when kids can do something better than their parents.

    Fox jr2 had to do a still life for the school art prize once, never having done one before, and in his first year at secondary school. I suggested he do one for practice, and when I suggested that he needed to show 3 dimensions better, he demonstrated his technique for the highlights and shadows, within minutes they were on the paper.

    I was awed, and he won the prize. Later got an A at fine art A level.
    I honestly don't think my kids can do anything better than me. Except: be more nice, and be more sober. They are great at that whereas I was a fiercely competitive fuck up and a madcap drunk, and then a proper junkie

    I love my kids. I like their friends. I like their generation for their amiability, and their gentleness. Inspiring, they are not. We are all fucked
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,424
    ohnotnow said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    'A protestor has glued themselves to the floor of the Oxford Union in protest of the Kathleen Stock talk.

    Riz Possnett, a student activist is sitting in front of Prof Stock wearing a t-shirt emblazoned with the words “No More Dead Trans Kids”
    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1663591273607966721?s=20

    https://twitter.com/rizpossnett/status/1663591786240159744

    The chairs were too comfy?
    I have never been there and cannot attest to the comfiness or otherwise of the chairs
  • WestieWestie Posts: 426

    His grandmother-in-law is Harriet’s aunt! 1) good luck working that out in your head 2) desperate.

    Civil servant who handed Boris diaries to police is related to Harriet Harman


    https://twitter.com/fifisyms/status/1663605523285942279

    A catfight within the top echelon of the civil service would be hilarious.

    Simon Case will doubtless have just the right skillset to cool everybody down, given his experience in royal service.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774
     
    Farooq said:

    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I know Oxford has lower standards than, say, Cambridge, but how does someone this stupid get in?

    https://twitter.com/RobertBea/status/1663592272972087309

    You can now get into colleges like Lady Margaret Hall at Oxford with just 3 Bs at A level if you are assessed as a 'disadvantaged' student who went to a state school. Cambridge doing similar

    https://www.newstatesman.com/quickfire/2022/05/zahawi-misunderstands-why-oxbridge-lowers-grades-for-students-like-me
    Also: both Cambridge and Oxford have been very happy to give EE offers to students who impressed enormously at interview. (And, indeed, I got a EE offer from UCL.)
    Slacker. I got a UU offer from UCL.

    For those who weren’t around in the 90s, UCL would do this with groups of students with very high predicted grades. According to a prof, the actual results didn’t drop off much, if at all.

    Since I’d taken 2 A levels a year early, I got a place on the spot….
    The boasting by @rcs1000 that his daughter is smarter than him is touching and lovely, until one remembers that @rcs1000 is basically a car park attendant. Then it is a tad less impressive

    It's a form of false modesty and inverted boasting because rcs100 is well aware of regression to the mean, which implies - and he assumes we infer - that he's actually a tad brighter still.

    That's is not how regression to the mean works
    I beg to differ

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780

    His grandmother-in-law is Harriet’s aunt! 1) good luck working that out in your head 2) desperate.

    Civil servant who handed Boris diaries to police is related to Harriet Harman


    https://twitter.com/fifisyms/status/1663605523285942279

    Or you could have said that Harriet is his first cousin by marriage.

    No one understands what once removed means anyway.
    Really? I've found most of my Year 10s did when I was explaining the relationship between Elizabeth I and Mary QoS.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,034

    Leon said:

    Westie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I know Oxford has lower standards than, say, Cambridge, but how does someone this stupid get in?

    https://twitter.com/RobertBea/status/1663592272972087309

    You can now get into colleges like Lady Margaret Hall at Oxford with just 3 Bs at A level if you are assessed as a 'disadvantaged' student who went to a state school. Cambridge doing similar

    https://www.newstatesman.com/quickfire/2022/05/zahawi-misunderstands-why-oxbridge-lowers-grades-for-students-like-me
    Also: both Cambridge and Oxford have been very happy to give EE offers to students who impressed enormously at interview. (And, indeed, I got a EE offer from UCL.)
    Slacker. I got a UU offer from UCL.
    I got told it didn't matter what grades I got in anything or had ever got in anything, and that they'd accept me into Jesus College, Cambridge, regardless. Then again, I am a member of the royal family.
    I like others got an EE offer from UCL - and I was determined to go to London - and so I thought fuck it. UCL it is. Slack off

    I still had an interview at Bristol (then quite a snooty university) so I got my parents to give me the money for the train and all that, and instead went to a pub in Hereford and got drunk all day and played Space Invaders with some mates

    I then wrote a dismissive letter to Bristol Uni saying, please consider me in absentia, I'm busy. Basically: fuck off

    They still made me an offer. Two Ds. They really wanted me

    All this makes me realise my 6th form teachers must have written an incredibly flattering profile of me, which I did not deserve, as I was a total drunken wastrel nearly expelled from my 6th form college for drinking and gambling on college premises, age 17

    Scenes, eh, scenes

    That sounds like a story AI would create if asked to contribute to SeanT's autobiography.
    As I was waiting for some food to heat up, I asked ChatGPT about (who I assume!) is this 'SeanT' you mention.



    It then goes into extensive detail about various pseudonyms, works, etc which I shall avoid posting. No idea why it's made up this nonsense about pseudonyms.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774
    Farooq said:

    geoffw said:

     

    Farooq said:

    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I know Oxford has lower standards than, say, Cambridge, but how does someone this stupid get in?

    https://twitter.com/RobertBea/status/1663592272972087309

    You can now get into colleges like Lady Margaret Hall at Oxford with just 3 Bs at A level if you are assessed as a 'disadvantaged' student who went to a state school. Cambridge doing similar

    https://www.newstatesman.com/quickfire/2022/05/zahawi-misunderstands-why-oxbridge-lowers-grades-for-students-like-me
    Also: both Cambridge and Oxford have been very happy to give EE offers to students who impressed enormously at interview. (And, indeed, I got a EE offer from UCL.)
    Slacker. I got a UU offer from UCL.

    For those who weren’t around in the 90s, UCL would do this with groups of students with very high predicted grades. According to a prof, the actual results didn’t drop off much, if at all.

    Since I’d taken 2 A levels a year early, I got a place on the spot….
    The boasting by @rcs1000 that his daughter is smarter than him is touching and lovely, until one remembers that @rcs1000 is basically a car park attendant. Then it is a tad less impressive

    It's a form of false modesty and inverted boasting because rcs100 is well aware of regression to the mean, which implies - and he assumes we infer - that he's actually a tad brighter still.

    That's is not how regression to the mean works
    I beg to differ

    Well, that's your right, but you would be totally wrong to do so.
    You don't seem to have a clue. For your edification here's Wiki on the subject:

    The concept of regression comes from genetics and was popularized by Sir Francis Galton during the late 19th century with the publication of Regression towards mediocrity in hereditary stature.[8] Galton observed that extreme characteristics (e.g., height) in parents are not passed on completely to their offspring. Rather, the characteristics in the offspring regress toward a mediocre point (a point which has since been identified as the mean). By measuring the heights of hundreds of people, he was able to quantify regression to the mean, and estimate the size of the effect. Galton wrote that, "the average regression of the offspring is a constant fraction of their respective mid-parental deviations". This means that the difference between a child and its parents for some characteristic is proportional to its parents' deviation from typical people in the population. If its parents are each two inches taller than the averages for men and women, then, on average, the offspring will be shorter than its parents by some factor (which, today, we would call one minus the regression coefficient) times two inches. For height, Galton estimated this coefficient to be about 2/3: the height of an individual will measure around a midpoint that is two thirds of the parents' deviation from the population average.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694

    Today was the first day I've been to Sainsbury's without a mask.

    What’s different about today?
    The person who drives me to Sainsbury's stopped wearing a mask last week. Sorry it is so mundane.
    No worries. But why did they stop? Genuine question - why would someone stop now? Rather than any other point?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    Farooq said:

    geoffw said:

     

    Farooq said:

    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I know Oxford has lower standards than, say, Cambridge, but how does someone this stupid get in?

    https://twitter.com/RobertBea/status/1663592272972087309

    You can now get into colleges like Lady Margaret Hall at Oxford with just 3 Bs at A level if you are assessed as a 'disadvantaged' student who went to a state school. Cambridge doing similar

    https://www.newstatesman.com/quickfire/2022/05/zahawi-misunderstands-why-oxbridge-lowers-grades-for-students-like-me
    Also: both Cambridge and Oxford have been very happy to give EE offers to students who impressed enormously at interview. (And, indeed, I got a EE offer from UCL.)
    Slacker. I got a UU offer from UCL.

    For those who weren’t around in the 90s, UCL would do this with groups of students with very high predicted grades. According to a prof, the actual results didn’t drop off much, if at all.

    Since I’d taken 2 A levels a year early, I got a place on the spot….
    The boasting by @rcs1000 that his daughter is smarter than him is touching and lovely, until one remembers that @rcs1000 is basically a car park attendant. Then it is a tad less impressive

    It's a form of false modesty and inverted boasting because rcs100 is well aware of regression to the mean, which implies - and he assumes we infer - that he's actually a tad brighter still.

    That's is not how regression to the mean works
    I beg to differ

    Well, that's your right, but you would be totally wrong to do so.
    Maybe this discussion about right and wrong should be left here.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401
    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    geoffw said:

     

    Farooq said:

    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I know Oxford has lower standards than, say, Cambridge, but how does someone this stupid get in?

    https://twitter.com/RobertBea/status/1663592272972087309

    You can now get into colleges like Lady Margaret Hall at Oxford with just 3 Bs at A level if you are assessed as a 'disadvantaged' student who went to a state school. Cambridge doing similar

    https://www.newstatesman.com/quickfire/2022/05/zahawi-misunderstands-why-oxbridge-lowers-grades-for-students-like-me
    Also: both Cambridge and Oxford have been very happy to give EE offers to students who impressed enormously at interview. (And, indeed, I got a EE offer from UCL.)
    Slacker. I got a UU offer from UCL.

    For those who weren’t around in the 90s, UCL would do this with groups of students with very high predicted grades. According to a prof, the actual results didn’t drop off much, if at all.

    Since I’d taken 2 A levels a year early, I got a place on the spot….
    The boasting by @rcs1000 that his daughter is smarter than him is touching and lovely, until one remembers that @rcs1000 is basically a car park attendant. Then it is a tad less impressive

    It's a form of false modesty and inverted boasting because rcs100 is well aware of regression to the mean, which implies - and he assumes we infer - that he's actually a tad brighter still.

    That's is not how regression to the mean works
    I beg to differ

    Well, that's your right, but you would be totally wrong to do so.
    Maybe this discussion about right and wrong should be left here.
    All very much at variance.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,752
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    geoffw said:

     

    Farooq said:

    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I know Oxford has lower standards than, say, Cambridge, but how does someone this stupid get in?

    https://twitter.com/RobertBea/status/1663592272972087309

    You can now get into colleges like Lady Margaret Hall at Oxford with just 3 Bs at A level if you are assessed as a 'disadvantaged' student who went to a state school. Cambridge doing similar

    https://www.newstatesman.com/quickfire/2022/05/zahawi-misunderstands-why-oxbridge-lowers-grades-for-students-like-me
    Also: both Cambridge and Oxford have been very happy to give EE offers to students who impressed enormously at interview. (And, indeed, I got a EE offer from UCL.)
    Slacker. I got a UU offer from UCL.

    For those who weren’t around in the 90s, UCL would do this with groups of students with very high predicted grades. According to a prof, the actual results didn’t drop off much, if at all.

    Since I’d taken 2 A levels a year early, I got a place on the spot….
    The boasting by @rcs1000 that his daughter is smarter than him is touching and lovely, until one remembers that @rcs1000 is basically a car park attendant. Then it is a tad less impressive

    It's a form of false modesty and inverted boasting because rcs100 is well aware of regression to the mean, which implies - and he assumes we infer - that he's actually a tad brighter still.

    That's is not how regression to the mean works
    I beg to differ

    Well, that's your right, but you would be totally wrong to do so.
    Maybe this discussion about right and wrong should be left here.
    All very much at variance.
    Everyone's allowed some sort of deviation somewhere.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    edited May 2023
    Seems the covid enquiry will not conclude before 2026 with only the vaccine programme to be reported on before the next GE in 2024

    I assume as Scotland and Wales are referenced those first ministers and officials will also be required to submit their what's app messages

    https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/news/inquiry-update-new-investigations-announced/
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774
    edited May 2023
    removed - screwed up
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401

    Seems the covid enquiry will not conclude before 2026 with only the vaccine programme to be reported on before the next GE in 2024

    I assume as Scotland and Wales are referenced those first ministers and officials will also be required to submit their what's app messages

    https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/news/inquiry-update-new-investigations-announced/

    Depends if they were stupid enough to use WhatsApp.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Folkestone is getting its first branch of Greggs. SKS fans please explain.

    https://www.kentonline.co.uk/folkestone/news/town-s-first-greggs-to-open-in-coming-weeks-287638/
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    "Artificial intelligence could lead to the extinction of humanity, experts - including the heads of OpenAI and Google Deepmind - have warned.

    Dozens have supported a statement published on the webpage of the Centre for AI Safety.

    "Mitigating the risk of extinction from AI should be a global priority alongside other societal-scale risks such as pandemics and nuclear war" it reads."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65746524
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774
    Farooq said:

    geoffw said:

    Farooq said:

    geoffw said:

     

    Farooq said:

    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I know Oxford has lower standards than, say, Cambridge, but how does someone this stupid get in?

    https://twitter.com/RobertBea/status/1663592272972087309

    You can now get into colleges like Lady Margaret Hall at Oxford with just 3 Bs at A level if you are assessed as a 'disadvantaged' student who went to a state school. Cambridge doing similar

    https://www.newstatesman.com/quickfire/2022/05/zahawi-misunderstands-why-oxbridge-lowers-grades-for-students-like-me
    Also: both Cambridge and Oxford have been very happy to give EE offers to students who impressed enormously at interview. (And, indeed, I got a EE offer from UCL.)
    Slacker. I got a UU offer from UCL.

    For those who weren’t around in the 90s, UCL would do this with groups of students with very high predicted grades. According to a prof, the actual results didn’t drop off much, if at all.

    Since I’d taken 2 A levels a year early, I got a place on the spot….
    The boasting by @rcs1000 that his daughter is smarter than him is touching and lovely, until one remembers that @rcs1000 is basically a car park attendant. Then it is a tad less impressive

    It's a form of false modesty and inverted boasting because rcs100 is well aware of regression to the mean, which implies - and he assumes we infer - that he's actually a tad brighter still.

    That's is not how regression to the mean works
    I beg to differ

    Well, that's your right, but you would be totally wrong to do so.
    You don't seem to have a clue. For your edification here's Wiki on the subject:

    The concept of regression comes from genetics and was popularized by Sir Francis Galton during the late 19th century with the publication of Regression towards mediocrity in hereditary stature.[8] Galton observed that extreme characteristics (e.g., height) in parents are not passed on completely to their offspring. Rather, the characteristics in the offspring regress toward a mediocre point (a point which has since been identified as the mean). By measuring the heights of hundreds of people, he was able to quantify regression to the mean, and estimate the size of the effect. Galton wrote that, "the average regression of the offspring is a constant fraction of their respective mid-parental deviations". This means that the difference between a child and its parents for some characteristic is proportional to its parents' deviation from typical people in the population. If its parents are each two inches taller than the averages for men and women, then, on average, the offspring will be shorter than its parents by some factor (which, today, we would call one minus the regression coefficient) times two inches. For height, Galton estimated this coefficient to be about 2/3: the height of an individual will measure around a midpoint that is two thirds of the parents' deviation from the population average.

    Yes, but you're implying the following chain of reasoning:

    rcs_v2.0 is smart
    there's a thing called regression to the mean
    therefore rcs_v1.0 must be smarter

    There's a lot wrong with this! In fact, regression to the mean implies the smarter bet is always to assume the other measurement is closer to the mean. If you're told rcs_v2.0 is smart, bet on rcs_v1.0 being less smart (i.e. closer to the average). If you're told rcs_v1.0 is smart, bet on rcs_v2.0 being less smart (closer to the average again).

    The more extreme one measurement is, the more likely another measurement will be comparatively more ordinary. It doesn't really matter which one gets measured first.

    To illustrate this more powerfully, imagine if you heard that rcs_v1.0 was exactly average. Where would you bet rcs_v2.0 is? Slightly smarter? Slightly stupider? Also exactly average?

    Regression to the mean is about the probability of one extreme measurement being followed by something more or less extreme. It's doesn't say that offspring are necessarily closer to the average than the parent.
    Oh dear! It was a joke abeit a tad sophisticated

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    Carnyx said:

    Seems the covid enquiry will not conclude before 2026 with only the vaccine programme to be reported on before the next GE in 2024

    I assume as Scotland and Wales are referenced those first ministers and officials will also be required to submit their what's app messages

    https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/news/inquiry-update-new-investigations-announced/

    Depends if they were stupid enough to use WhatsApp.
    Indeed
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Looks like an infection of (comparively) younger people spreading out from the capital.

    This one does kind of surprise me though

    https://twitter.com/ahawksbee/status/1663485024144879616/photo/1
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401
    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    geoffw said:

     

    Farooq said:

    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I know Oxford has lower standards than, say, Cambridge, but how does someone this stupid get in?

    https://twitter.com/RobertBea/status/1663592272972087309

    You can now get into colleges like Lady Margaret Hall at Oxford with just 3 Bs at A level if you are assessed as a 'disadvantaged' student who went to a state school. Cambridge doing similar

    https://www.newstatesman.com/quickfire/2022/05/zahawi-misunderstands-why-oxbridge-lowers-grades-for-students-like-me
    Also: both Cambridge and Oxford have been very happy to give EE offers to students who impressed enormously at interview. (And, indeed, I got a EE offer from UCL.)
    Slacker. I got a UU offer from UCL.

    For those who weren’t around in the 90s, UCL would do this with groups of students with very high predicted grades. According to a prof, the actual results didn’t drop off much, if at all.

    Since I’d taken 2 A levels a year early, I got a place on the spot….
    The boasting by @rcs1000 that his daughter is smarter than him is touching and lovely, until one remembers that @rcs1000 is basically a car park attendant. Then it is a tad less impressive

    It's a form of false modesty and inverted boasting because rcs100 is well aware of regression to the mean, which implies - and he assumes we infer - that he's actually a tad brighter still.

    That's is not how regression to the mean works
    I beg to differ

    Well, that's your right, but you would be totally wrong to do so.
    Maybe this discussion about right and wrong should be left here.
    All very much at variance.
    Guys... please. All this maths punning is just not normal.
    Happy memories of being given a secondhand copy of a paperback reprint of Galton's book by an intelligent young lady when I was a student. One of those presents where the monetary value is trivial compared to the worth. Still got it.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,034
    Andy_JS said:

    "Artificial intelligence could lead to the extinction of humanity, experts - including the heads of OpenAI and Google Deepmind - have warned.

    Dozens have supported a statement published on the webpage of the Centre for AI Safety.

    "Mitigating the risk of extinction from AI should be a global priority alongside other societal-scale risks such as pandemics and nuclear war" it reads."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65746524

    "In the meantime, it can give me a pretty decent shepherds pie recipe though. So all's good."

    (C) Humanity.

    See also....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401

    Carnyx said:

    Seems the covid enquiry will not conclude before 2026 with only the vaccine programme to be reported on before the next GE in 2024

    I assume as Scotland and Wales are referenced those first ministers and officials will also be required to submit their what's app messages

    https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/news/inquiry-update-new-investigations-announced/

    Depends if they were stupid enough to use WhatsApp.
    Indeed
    Haven't been keeping up in detail, but the implication is that those in S & W coughed up on demand, or at least have not decided that they are above the law.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,034

    Seems the covid enquiry will not conclude before 2026 with only the vaccine programme to be reported on before the next GE in 2024

    I assume as Scotland and Wales are referenced those first ministers and officials will also be required to submit their what's app messages

    https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/news/inquiry-update-new-investigations-announced/

    Sounds like the the UK covid enquiry might get the whatsapp messages before the Scottish covid enquiry even sits.

    So that's something to cling onto.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277

    Seems the covid enquiry will not conclude before 2026 with only the vaccine programme to be reported on before the next GE in 2024

    I assume as Scotland and Wales are referenced those first ministers and officials will also be required to submit their what's app messages

    https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/news/inquiry-update-new-investigations-announced/

    If they’re not going to conclude the full report then they shouldn’t report on the vaccine programme .

    Why should the government get a boost before the election whilst the more likely critical other aspects outside of the vaccines are left till after the GE .
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I know Oxford has lower standards than, say, Cambridge, but how does someone this stupid get in?

    https://twitter.com/RobertBea/status/1663592272972087309

    You can now get into colleges like Lady Margaret Hall at Oxford with just 3 Bs at A level if you are assessed as a 'disadvantaged' student who went to a state school. Cambridge doing similar

    https://www.newstatesman.com/quickfire/2022/05/zahawi-misunderstands-why-oxbridge-lowers-grades-for-students-like-me
    Also: both Cambridge and Oxford have been very happy to give EE offers to students who impressed enormously at interview. (And, indeed, I got a EE offer from UCL.)
    Slacker. I got a UU offer from UCL.

    For those who weren’t around in the 90s, UCL would do this with groups of students with very high predicted grades. According to a prof, the actual results didn’t drop off much, if at all.

    Since I’d taken 2 A levels a year early, I got a place on the spot….
    The boasting by @rcs1000 that his daughter is smarter than him is touching and lovely, until one remembers that @rcs1000 is basically a car park attendant

    It is always impressive when kids can do something better than their parents.

    Fox jr2 had to do a still life for the school art prize once, never having done one before, and in his first year at secondary school. I suggested he do one for practice, and when I suggested that he needed to show 3 dimensions better, he demonstrated his technique for the highlights and shadows, within minutes they were on the paper.

    I was awed, and he won the prize. Later got an A at fine art A level.
    I honestly don't think my kids can do anything better than me. Except: be more nice, and be more sober. They are great at that whereas I was a fiercely competitive fuck up and a madcap drunk, and then a proper junkie

    I love my kids. I like their friends. I like their generation for their amiability, and their gentleness. Inspiring, they are not. We are all fucked
    My daughter is six and, with respect, would have you for breakfast. Utterly formidable. I do not despair for the future.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,752
    ohnotnow said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Artificial intelligence could lead to the extinction of humanity, experts - including the heads of OpenAI and Google Deepmind - have warned.

    Dozens have supported a statement published on the webpage of the Centre for AI Safety.

    "Mitigating the risk of extinction from AI should be a global priority alongside other societal-scale risks such as pandemics and nuclear war" it reads."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65746524

    "In the meantime, it can give me a pretty decent shepherds pie recipe though. So all's good."

    (C) Humanity.

    See also....
    Unless it gets it wrong and tells you to put shepherds in the pie.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Meanwhile in the ever expanding book of Vote Leave broken promises the government confirms its no longer interested in a US UK trade deal .
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    edited May 2023
    Starmers personal vow to Express readers apparently

    Not sure this is the message many on here want to read

    And by the way, I do not read the Express but it popped up on my timeline and I thought it would provoke debate

    Starmer rules out return of free movement between UK and EU in message to Express readers

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1775768/keir-starmer-labour-rejoin-eu-1775768#ICID=Android_ExpressNewApp_AppShare
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694
    Leon said:

    Westie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I know Oxford has lower standards than, say, Cambridge, but how does someone this stupid get in?

    https://twitter.com/RobertBea/status/1663592272972087309

    You can now get into colleges like Lady Margaret Hall at Oxford with just 3 Bs at A level if you are assessed as a 'disadvantaged' student who went to a state school. Cambridge doing similar

    https://www.newstatesman.com/quickfire/2022/05/zahawi-misunderstands-why-oxbridge-lowers-grades-for-students-like-me
    Also: both Cambridge and Oxford have been very happy to give EE offers to students who impressed enormously at interview. (And, indeed, I got a EE offer from UCL.)
    Slacker. I got a UU offer from UCL.
    I got told it didn't matter what grades I got in anything or had ever got in anything, and that they'd accept me into Jesus College, Cambridge, regardless. Then again, I am a member of the royal family.
    I like others got an EE offer from UCL - and I was determined to go to London - and so I thought fuck it. UCL it is. Slack off

    I still had an interview at Bristol (then quite a snooty university) so I got my parents to give me the money for the train and all that, and instead went to a pub in Hereford and got drunk all day and played Space Invaders with some mates

    I then wrote a dismissive letter to Bristol Uni saying, please consider me in absentia, I'm busy. Basically: fuck off

    They still made me an offer. Two Ds. They really wanted me

    All this makes me realise my 6th form teachers must have written an incredibly flattering profile of me, which I did not deserve, as I was a total drunken wastrel nearly expelled from my 6th form college for drinking and gambling on college premises, age 17

    Scenes, eh, scenes

    More likely your predicted grades were the key.

    I had an offer of three Es from Warwick as they openly expected me to get an offer from Cambridge (sadly not forthcoming) and would put them as reserve. It was a common game.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156

    ohnotnow said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Artificial intelligence could lead to the extinction of humanity, experts - including the heads of OpenAI and Google Deepmind - have warned.

    Dozens have supported a statement published on the webpage of the Centre for AI Safety.

    "Mitigating the risk of extinction from AI should be a global priority alongside other societal-scale risks such as pandemics and nuclear war" it reads."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65746524

    "In the meantime, it can give me a pretty decent shepherds pie recipe though. So all's good."

    (C) Humanity.

    See also....
    Unless it gets it wrong and tells you to put shepherds in the pie.
    Some vegetarian shepherds substitute for me, please :lol:
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I know Oxford has lower standards than, say, Cambridge, but how does someone this stupid get in?

    https://twitter.com/RobertBea/status/1663592272972087309

    You can now get into colleges like Lady Margaret Hall at Oxford with just 3 Bs at A level if you are assessed as a 'disadvantaged' student who went to a state school. Cambridge doing similar

    https://www.newstatesman.com/quickfire/2022/05/zahawi-misunderstands-why-oxbridge-lowers-grades-for-students-like-me
    Also: both Cambridge and Oxford have been very happy to give EE offers to students who impressed enormously at interview. (And, indeed, I got a EE offer from UCL.)
    Slacker. I got a UU offer from UCL.

    For those who weren’t around in the 90s, UCL would do this with groups of students with very high predicted grades. According to a prof, the actual results didn’t drop off much, if at all.

    Since I’d taken 2 A levels a year early, I got a place on the spot….
    The boasting by @rcs1000 that his daughter is smarter than him is touching and lovely, until one remembers that @rcs1000 is basically a car park attendant

    It is always impressive when kids can do something better than their parents.

    Fox jr2 had to do a still life for the school art prize once, never having done one before, and in his first year at secondary school. I suggested he do one for practice, and when I suggested that he needed to show 3 dimensions better, he demonstrated his technique for the highlights and shadows, within minutes they were on the paper.

    I was awed, and he won the prize. Later got an A at fine art A level.
    I honestly don't think my kids can do anything better than me. Except: be more nice, and be more sober. They are great at that whereas I was a fiercely competitive fuck up and a madcap drunk, and then a proper junkie

    I love my kids. I like their friends. I like their generation for their amiability, and their gentleness. Inspiring, they are not. We are all fucked
    My daughter is six and, with respect, would have you for breakfast. Utterly formidable. I do not despair for the future.
    I sincerely hope you are right, but I am fairly certain you are wrong

    The coming generation are a few crucial IQ points dimmer, and - worse - have been politically immobilised and zombified by the Wokeness

    They will accept the AI takeover, probably without a murmur

    That said, perhaps this is a mercy. We are destroying our world. We possibly need AI to take over. So evolution has engineered a new, fatalistic generation which will yield, rather than fight
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Hit a nice 31 off 20 balls before being bowled middle stump, happy with that
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,871
    maxh said:

    On topic: this feels like an unusually partisan tweeter for Mike to promote.

    But the video is horrific. It’s bad enough having a junior minister wheeled out to do the interviews who is unwilling to step beyond their brief and so transparently parrots the sound bite they have been told to parrot.

    But for the PM to do this? Makes you wonder who (if anyone) is in charge. Pathetic.

    I had been on the fence about Sunak, but this interview is inexcusable in my view.

    The Government is confident in its position, and has released tens of thousands of documents.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    nico679 said:

    Meanwhile in the ever expanding book of Vote Leave broken promises the government confirms its no longer interested in a US UK trade deal .

    Any trade deal will happen only if and when it joins the CPTPP
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,993

    Starmers personal vow to Express readers apparently

    Not sure this is the message many on here want to read

    And by the way, I do not read the Express but it popped up on my timeline and I thought it would provoke debate

    Starmer rules out return of free movement between UK and EU in message to Express readers

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1775768/keir-starmer-labour-rejoin-eu-1775768#ICID=Android_ExpressNewApp_AppShare

    No great surprise and sensible politics. Freedom of Movement would be a pre-condition of going back to the Single Market and both Starmer and I know that would galvanise the Leave vote from 2016 back into the Conservative camp.

    I note the latest increasingly desperate line from Conservative activists is to try and picture Starmer as an environmentalist trying to oppose the working class just trying to get to their places of work by bringing in ULEZ type policies and backing anti-car measures.

    One might perhaps argue the way the Conservatives have mismanaged the current disputes with transport workers have done far more to stop the working classes trying to get to work than anything Starmer has done or is proposing.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,871
    nico679 said:

    Meanwhile in the ever expanding book of Vote Leave broken promises the government confirms its no longer interested in a US UK trade deal .

    Good.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,647

    Today was the first day I've been to Sainsbury's without a mask.

    Did anyone recognise you?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,752
    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Artificial intelligence could lead to the extinction of humanity, experts - including the heads of OpenAI and Google Deepmind - have warned.

    Dozens have supported a statement published on the webpage of the Centre for AI Safety.

    "Mitigating the risk of extinction from AI should be a global priority alongside other societal-scale risks such as pandemics and nuclear war" it reads."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65746524

    Don't worry. If an out-of-control AI does start eliminating swathes of humanity, we have the pandemic playbook to work from:

    1. Pretend it's an opportunity to get rich while other countries panic unnecessarily
    2. Make jokes about shaking hands with killer robots
    3. Everyone clap for the PM when he's hospitalised after having his hand torn off by a killer robot
    4. Enforce strict rules about interacting with technology...
    4a. ...while the PM has 24-hour LAN parties in Downing Street
    5. Give contracts to friends who say they can deal with the threat (they deliver an abacus and 1 broken keyboard for £148 million)
    6. Lie to parliament about the LAN parties
    7. Lie to the public about lying to parliament about the LAN parties
    8. Set up an enquiry
    9. Withhold evidence from the enquiry
    10. Sell your memoirs
    At least they'll order plenty of Norton and Macafee to get us back to normal, or something.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    If the case for Tories in 2024 is not Keir Starmer then they will lose and lose big.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    Andy_JS said:

    "Artificial intelligence could lead to the extinction of humanity, experts - including the heads of OpenAI and Google Deepmind - have warned.

    Dozens have supported a statement published on the webpage of the Centre for AI Safety.

    "Mitigating the risk of extinction from AI should be a global priority alongside other societal-scale risks such as pandemics and nuclear war" it reads."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65746524

    This is all hilarious bullsh*t.

    Many of the big name signatories are people heavily invested in AI research. They have spent billions on it, and realise that *anyone* (*) can copy what they did - because they 'stole' common data to do it.

    Therefore to protect their investment, they want regulation to stop competitors. But not regulations tat would hurt them, because they're the 'good' ones, because they're aware of the threat.

    And yet... look at it another way. They're supposed to be so big-brained that we must listen to them. And yet, despite those big brains, they developed systems that people have been saying for decades could be dangerous - and now they're suddenly aware of those dangers. Not so big-brained, is it?

    It's all about protectionism of their business and investments, not protection of humanity.

    (*) At least, anyone with any brains.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961

    Seems the covid enquiry will not conclude before 2026 with only the vaccine programme to be reported on before the next GE in 2024

    I assume as Scotland and Wales are referenced those first ministers and officials will also be required to submit their what's app messages

    https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/news/inquiry-update-new-investigations-announced/

    The Post Office Inquiry was supposed to be concluded by the end of last year. Now it looks like it won't be ready until next year at the earliest.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,871
    By the way, the impression I got from the BBC news bulletin I listened to said that it was the Government that is refusing to hand over documents (saying that it doesn't have them) whilst Boris is saying he'll co-operate fully, potentially providing the enquiry with copies of communications that the Cabinet office has lost down the back of the shredder. That doesn’t sound like Sunak protecting Boris.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Woke is now so meaningless that the Daily Mail now put it in any sentence, whether it has anything to do with it or not.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,647

    On topic, I think this plays into the "not a moron, not a conman... but not very good at politics".

    Sunak can't afford to seem shifty on this... even if his lawyers have a point.

    What’s the point his lawyers have?

    My client will lose his job because of what he said and done, and this is grossly unfair?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319
    Keir is in a tight space on Brexit.

    Even a rotting artichoke at the back of my fridge knows that Britain needs to rejoin the single market, but that means FOM.

    Maybe it’s not your granny’s FOM, because there are possibly protections along the lines much essayed on here against welfare tourism, but it’s still FOM.

    But Keir has to rule it out because a good 25% of the population have sub-rotting artichoke IQs, or consume media that encourages them to think like sub-rotting artichokes.

    Sad, but politics is the art of the necessary.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I know Oxford has lower standards than, say, Cambridge, but how does someone this stupid get in?

    https://twitter.com/RobertBea/status/1663592272972087309

    You can now get into colleges like Lady Margaret Hall at Oxford with just 3 Bs at A level if you are assessed as a 'disadvantaged' student who went to a state school. Cambridge doing similar

    https://www.newstatesman.com/quickfire/2022/05/zahawi-misunderstands-why-oxbridge-lowers-grades-for-students-like-me
    Also: both Cambridge and Oxford have been very happy to give EE offers to students who impressed enormously at interview. (And, indeed, I got a EE offer from UCL.)
    Slacker. I got a UU offer from UCL.

    For those who weren’t around in the 90s, UCL would do this with groups of students with very high predicted grades. According to a prof, the actual results didn’t drop off much, if at all.

    Since I’d taken 2 A levels a year early, I got a place on the spot….
    The boasting by @rcs1000 that his daughter is smarter than him is touching and lovely, until one remembers that @rcs1000 is basically a car park attendant

    It is always impressive when kids can do something better than their parents.

    Fox jr2 had to do a still life for the school art prize once, never having done one before, and in his first year at secondary school. I suggested he do one for practice, and when I suggested that he needed to show 3 dimensions better, he demonstrated his technique for the highlights and shadows, within minutes they were on the paper.

    I was awed, and he won the prize. Later got an A at fine art A level.
    I honestly don't think my kids can do anything better than me. Except: be more nice, and be more sober. They are great at that whereas I was a fiercely competitive fuck up and a madcap drunk, and then a proper junkie

    I love my kids. I like their friends. I like their generation for their amiability, and their gentleness. Inspiring, they are not. We are all fucked
    Humans do seem nicer nowadays. Maybe it's all down to taking lead out of petrol. There is, of course, the possibility that the characteristics you describe if the younger generation <> we are al fucked.

    My oldest two daughters - 13 and 11 - can do lots of things better than me - variously: study, try hard, be generally nice, climb, bake, act, run (and I used to be pretty damn nippy). They amaze me. I am pretty confident they will make better and cleverer and more talented humans than me. Youngest - well, her time will come. And if it doesn't, she can coast through life on her lioks.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    Keir is in a tight space on Brexit.

    Even a rotting artichoke at the back of my fridge knows that Britain needs to rejoin the single market, but that means FOM.

    Maybe it’s not your granny’s FOM, because there are possibly protections along the lines much essayed on here against welfare tourism, but it’s still FOM.

    But Keir has to rule it out because a good 25% of the population have sub-rotting artichoke IQs, or consume media that encourages them to think like sub-rotting artichokes.

    Sad, but politics is the art of the necessary.

    Keir has to rule it out because as I have said before, his advisors Mandelson and Blair have told him that it takes a decade to change the country, Labour needs to get elected first.

    Keir Starmer is aiming for a decade of Labour Government, not five minutes.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156

    Seems the covid enquiry will not conclude before 2026 with only the vaccine programme to be reported on before the next GE in 2024

    I assume as Scotland and Wales are referenced those first ministers and officials will also be required to submit their what's app messages

    https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/news/inquiry-update-new-investigations-announced/

    Will it be a fudge-led inquiry?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,871
    Interesting movements in the Conhome league table of Ministers.
    https://conservativehome.com/2023/05/30/its-a-record-month-for-our-cabinet-league-table-with-six-ministers-in-negative-ratings/

    Sunak plummets from 5th to mid table.

    Kemi Badenoch loses 2 places, second to fourth, I think it was @Farooq who asked me for any evidence that her EU bill flop had affected her negatively.

    Therese Coffey was the only Minister in negative ratings last time around, now she has Michael Gove, Grant Shapps, Andrew Mitchell, Jeremy Hunt and Robert Jenrick to keep her company. Lucky lady.

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,647

    maxh said:

    On topic: this feels like an unusually partisan tweeter for Mike to promote.

    But the video is horrific. It’s bad enough having a junior minister wheeled out to do the interviews who is unwilling to step beyond their brief and so transparently parrots the sound bite they have been told to parrot.

    But for the PM to do this? Makes you wonder who (if anyone) is in charge. Pathetic.

    I had been on the fence about Sunak, but this interview is inexcusable in my view.

    The Government is confident in its position, and has released tens of thousands of documents.
    What a great line.

    They ought to use that one as often as they can.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,871
    edited May 2023

    maxh said:

    On topic: this feels like an unusually partisan tweeter for Mike to promote.

    But the video is horrific. It’s bad enough having a junior minister wheeled out to do the interviews who is unwilling to step beyond their brief and so transparently parrots the sound bite they have been told to parrot.

    But for the PM to do this? Makes you wonder who (if anyone) is in charge. Pathetic.

    I had been on the fence about Sunak, but this interview is inexcusable in my view.

    The Government is confident in its position, and has released tens of thousands of documents.
    What a great line.

    They ought to use that one as often as they can.
    Sunak did use it as often as he could.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319
    edited May 2023

    nico679 said:

    Meanwhile in the ever expanding book of Vote Leave broken promises the government confirms its no longer interested in a US UK trade deal .

    Any trade deal will happen only if and when it joins the CPTPP
    That’s not a trade deal with the US.
    That’s a much weaker deal, and not what was promised.

    The big prize for Brexiters was to join NAFTA 2.0, and to hell with those kiddy-fiddlers in Brussels.

    The idea that we no longer even want a US trade deal is a massive failure.

    There really aren’t so many blocs for the UK to secure close FTAs with.

    China has issues (and UK is currently begging with US to treat it favourably in the chip wars because it claims to be less invested in China than other big trading economies)

    EU we’ve told to fuck off.

    USA/NAFTA we are apparently no longer interested.

    CPTPP runs a very very very poor forth, and then you’ve got India (very tricky, although something is in the works), GCC (not worth much), Mercosur (ditto), Russia (currently sanctioned).

    Post-Brexit trade policy has developed not necessarily to the UK’s advantage.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,871
    Farooq said:

    Interesting movements in the Conhome league table of Ministers.
    https://conservativehome.com/2023/05/30/its-a-record-month-for-our-cabinet-league-table-with-six-ministers-in-negative-ratings/

    Sunak plummets from 5th to mid table.

    Kemi Badenoch loses 2 places, second to fourth, I think it was @Farooq who asked me for any evidence that her EU bill flop had affected her negatively.

    Therese Coffey was the only Minister in negative ratings last time around, now she has Michael Gove, Grant Shapps, Andrew Mitchell, Jeremy Hunt and Robert Jenrick to keep her company. Lucky lady.

    You wrote:
    The Sunak lap dog approach has done for her. If course if she reads the writing on the wall and decides to be the one who pushes him down the figurative stairs of office, that could change.

    I wrote:
    Her fame an popularity seem to be near their highest levels in the most recent snapshot:
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Kemi_Badenoch?content=all

    Not very high, but showing no evidence of recent damage either.

    Yes. I said that the Yougov polling was irrelevant because the Tory leader is elected by a selectorate. You asked for any evidence that she had been damaged in the eyes of the party. She'd only slipped a place in the immediate aftermath, she's now down another two. Voila.
  • Keir is in a tight space on Brexit.

    Even a rotting artichoke at the back of my fridge knows that Britain needs to rejoin the single market, but that means FOM.

    Maybe it’s not your granny’s FOM, because there are possibly protections along the lines much essayed on here against welfare tourism, but it’s still FOM.

    But Keir has to rule it out because a good 25% of the population have sub-rotting artichoke IQs, or consume media that encourages them to think like sub-rotting artichokes.

    Sad, but politics is the art of the necessary.

    Keir has ruled it out because there's absolutely no reason for the UK to rejoin the Single Market, and Keir has like 85%+ of the country moved on and stopped obsessing over bloody Brexit anymore now that its done.

    All the myths about collapses or danger to the economy if the UK were to leave the Single Market have been shown to be nonsense and not come to pass, initially people claimed because we didn't invoke Article 50 immediately then for various reasons until eventually people have just moved on.

    You should too. Its not healthy anymore.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    Andy_JS said:

    "Artificial intelligence could lead to the extinction of humanity, experts - including the heads of OpenAI and Google Deepmind - have warned.

    Dozens have supported a statement published on the webpage of the Centre for AI Safety.

    "Mitigating the risk of extinction from AI should be a global priority alongside other societal-scale risks such as pandemics and nuclear war" it reads."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65746524

    I did put AI Robo-apocalypse wiping out humanity at 1/2 in my odds list yesterday.

    The obvious flaw is in settling the bets.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Rishi Sunak's Ed Miliband tribute act is really wearing thin.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,871

    nico679 said:

    Meanwhile in the ever expanding book of Vote Leave broken promises the government confirms its no longer interested in a US UK trade deal .

    Any trade deal will happen only if and when it joins the CPTPP
    That’s not a trade deal with the US.
    That’s a much weaker deal, and not what was promised.

    The big prize for Brexiters was to join NAFTA 2.0, and to hell with those kiddy-fiddlers in Brussels.

    The idea that we no longer even want a US trade deal is a massive failure.

    There really aren’t so many blocs for the UK to secure close FTAs with.

    China has issues (and UK is currently begging with US to treat it favourably in the chip wars because it claims to be less invested in China than other big trading economies)

    EU we’ve told to fuck off.

    USA/NAFTA we are apparently no longer interested.

    CPTPP runs a very very very poor forth, and then you’ve got India (very tricky, although something is in the works), GCC (not worth much), Mercosur (ditto), Russia (currently sanctioned).

    Post-Brexit trade policy has developed not necessarily to the UK’s advantage.

    We should be very grateful the US has lost interest. It's when Uncle Sam starts making overtures that you pat for your wallet. Can you imagine Sunak saying 'No' to anything they would propose? Dockside hooker wouldn't come close.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319

    Keir is in a tight space on Brexit.

    Even a rotting artichoke at the back of my fridge knows that Britain needs to rejoin the single market, but that means FOM.

    Maybe it’s not your granny’s FOM, because there are possibly protections along the lines much essayed on here against welfare tourism, but it’s still FOM.

    But Keir has to rule it out because a good 25% of the population have sub-rotting artichoke IQs, or consume media that encourages them to think like sub-rotting artichokes.

    Sad, but politics is the art of the necessary.

    Keir has ruled it out because there's absolutely no reason for the UK to rejoin the Single Market, and Keir has like 85%+ of the country moved on and stopped obsessing over bloody Brexit anymore now that its done.

    All the myths about collapses or danger to the economy if the UK were to leave the Single Market have been shown to be nonsense and not come to pass, initially people claimed because we didn't invoke Article 50 immediately then for various reasons until eventually people have just moved on.

    You should too. Its not healthy anymore.
    The rotting artichoke speaks!

    You have no credibility on this subject I’m afraid.
    Trade, investment, and productivity are all in the doldrums.

    Anyone who wants growth knows the importance of the single market.

    If you want to argue for soporific declinism - and some do - then be honest about it.
  • nico679 said:

    Meanwhile in the ever expanding book of Vote Leave broken promises the government confirms its no longer interested in a US UK trade deal .

    Any trade deal will happen only if and when it joins the CPTPP
    That’s not a trade deal with the US.
    That’s a much weaker deal, and not what was promised.

    The big prize for Brexiters was to join NAFTA 2.0, and to hell with those kiddy-fiddlers in Brussels.

    The idea that we no longer even want a US trade deal is a massive failure.

    There really aren’t so many blocs for the UK to secure close FTAs with.

    China has issues (and UK is currently begging with US to treat it favourably in the chip wars because it claims to be less invested in China than other big trading economies)

    EU we’ve told to fuck off.

    USA/NAFTA we are apparently no longer interested.

    CPTPP runs a very very very poor forth, and then you’ve got India (very tricky, although something is in the works), GCC (not worth much), Mercosur (ditto), Russia (currently sanctioned).

    Post-Brexit trade policy has developed not necessarily to the UK’s advantage.

    The CPTPP is a bigger trade bloc than the EU.

    It is also growing considerably faster and has more potential than the EU.

    If the CPTPP is 'poor' then what does that say about the EU?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319

    nico679 said:

    Meanwhile in the ever expanding book of Vote Leave broken promises the government confirms its no longer interested in a US UK trade deal .

    Any trade deal will happen only if and when it joins the CPTPP
    That’s not a trade deal with the US.
    That’s a much weaker deal, and not what was promised.

    The big prize for Brexiters was to join NAFTA 2.0, and to hell with those kiddy-fiddlers in Brussels.

    The idea that we no longer even want a US trade deal is a massive failure.

    There really aren’t so many blocs for the UK to secure close FTAs with.

    China has issues (and UK is currently begging with US to treat it favourably in the chip wars because it claims to be less invested in China than other big trading economies)

    EU we’ve told to fuck off.

    USA/NAFTA we are apparently no longer interested.

    CPTPP runs a very very very poor forth, and then you’ve got India (very tricky, although something is in the works), GCC (not worth much), Mercosur (ditto), Russia (currently sanctioned).

    Post-Brexit trade policy has developed not necessarily to the UK’s advantage.

    The CPTPP is a bigger trade bloc than the EU.

    It is also growing considerably faster and has more potential than the EU.

    If the CPTPP is 'poor' then what does that say about the EU?
    Patrick Minford called from 2016 and he wants his policy advice back.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    edited May 2023
    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Artificial intelligence could lead to the extinction of humanity, experts - including the heads of OpenAI and Google Deepmind - have warned.

    Dozens have supported a statement published on the webpage of the Centre for AI Safety.

    "Mitigating the risk of extinction from AI should be a global priority alongside other societal-scale risks such as pandemics and nuclear war" it reads."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65746524

    Don't worry. If an out-of-control AI does start eliminating swathes of humanity, we have the pandemic playbook to work from:

    1. Pretend it's an opportunity to get rich while other countries panic unnecessarily
    2. Make jokes about shaking hands with killer robots
    3. Everyone clap for the PM when he's hospitalised after having his hand torn off by a killer robot
    4. Enforce strict rules about interacting with technology...
    4a. ...while the PM has 24-hour LAN parties in Downing Street
    5. Give contracts to friends who say they can deal with the threat (they deliver an abacus and 1 broken keyboard for £148 million)
    6. Lie to parliament about the LAN parties
    7. Lie to the public about lying to parliament about the LAN parties
    8. Set up an enquiry
    9. Withhold evidence from the enquiry
    10. Sell your memoirs
    Would number 8 be a machine led enquiry?
  • Keir is in a tight space on Brexit.

    Even a rotting artichoke at the back of my fridge knows that Britain needs to rejoin the single market, but that means FOM.

    Maybe it’s not your granny’s FOM, because there are possibly protections along the lines much essayed on here against welfare tourism, but it’s still FOM.

    But Keir has to rule it out because a good 25% of the population have sub-rotting artichoke IQs, or consume media that encourages them to think like sub-rotting artichokes.

    Sad, but politics is the art of the necessary.

    Keir has ruled it out because there's absolutely no reason for the UK to rejoin the Single Market, and Keir has like 85%+ of the country moved on and stopped obsessing over bloody Brexit anymore now that its done.

    All the myths about collapses or danger to the economy if the UK were to leave the Single Market have been shown to be nonsense and not come to pass, initially people claimed because we didn't invoke Article 50 immediately then for various reasons until eventually people have just moved on.

    You should too. Its not healthy anymore.
    The rotting artichoke speaks!

    You have no credibility on this subject I’m afraid.
    Trade, investment, and productivity are all in the doldrums.

    Anyone who wants growth knows the importance of the single market.

    If you want to argue for soporific declinism - and some do - then be honest about it.
    Productivity was in the doldrums within the EU. There's indications its already improving post-Brexit, just as some of us predicted.

    Anyone who wants growth knows the Single Market is a failure when it comes to growth. Anyone who is an obsessive about the EU and can't put their politics behind looking at the data, will come to your outcome.

    You are Hiroo Onoda still fighting the good fight even as the world has moved on.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,314

    Keir is in a tight space on Brexit.

    Even a rotting artichoke at the back of my fridge knows that Britain needs to rejoin the single market, but that means FOM.

    Maybe it’s not your granny’s FOM, because there are possibly protections along the lines much essayed on here against welfare tourism, but it’s still FOM.

    But Keir has to rule it out because a good 25% of the population have sub-rotting artichoke IQs, or consume media that encourages them to think like sub-rotting artichokes.

    Sad, but politics is the art of the necessary.

    Keir has ruled it out because there's absolutely no reason for the UK to rejoin the Single Market, and Keir has like 85%+ of the country moved on and stopped obsessing over bloody Brexit anymore now that its done.

    All the myths about collapses or danger to the economy if the UK were to leave the Single Market have been shown to be nonsense and not come to pass, initially people claimed because we didn't invoke Article 50 immediately then for various reasons until eventually people have just moved on.

    You should too. Its not healthy anymore.
    I'm not sure the public agree that leaving the single market has been a good idea. Nor the EU for that matter...

    Omnisis (25-26th May)
    * All *
    ❎ Stay Out: 33% (-3)
    ☑️ Re-join: 47% (-2)

    * Exc DKs*
    ❎ Stay Out: 41% (-4)
    ☑️ Re-join: 59% (+4)
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319

    nico679 said:

    Meanwhile in the ever expanding book of Vote Leave broken promises the government confirms its no longer interested in a US UK trade deal .

    Any trade deal will happen only if and when it joins the CPTPP
    That’s not a trade deal with the US.
    That’s a much weaker deal, and not what was promised.

    The big prize for Brexiters was to join NAFTA 2.0, and to hell with those kiddy-fiddlers in Brussels.

    The idea that we no longer even want a US trade deal is a massive failure.

    There really aren’t so many blocs for the UK to secure close FTAs with.

    China has issues (and UK is currently begging with US to treat it favourably in the chip wars because it claims to be less invested in China than other big trading economies)

    EU we’ve told to fuck off.

    USA/NAFTA we are apparently no longer interested.

    CPTPP runs a very very very poor forth, and then you’ve got India (very tricky, although something is in the works), GCC (not worth much), Mercosur (ditto), Russia (currently sanctioned).

    Post-Brexit trade policy has developed not necessarily to the UK’s advantage.

    We should be very grateful the US has lost interest. It's when Uncle Sam starts making overtures that you pat for your wallet. Can you imagine Sunak saying 'No' to anything they would propose? Dockside hooker wouldn't come close.
    That’s a real issue.
    But one that further undercuts the hopes enthusiastically promulgated by Daniel Hannan and others.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Artificial intelligence could lead to the extinction of humanity, experts - including the heads of OpenAI and Google Deepmind - have warned.

    Dozens have supported a statement published on the webpage of the Centre for AI Safety.

    "Mitigating the risk of extinction from AI should be a global priority alongside other societal-scale risks such as pandemics and nuclear war" it reads."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65746524

    Don't worry. If an out-of-control AI does start eliminating swathes of humanity, we have the pandemic playbook to work from:

    1. Pretend it's an opportunity to get rich while other countries panic unnecessarily
    2. Make jokes about shaking hands with killer robots
    3. Everyone clap for the PM when he's hospitalised after having his hand torn off by a killer robot
    4. Enforce strict rules about interacting with technology...
    4a. ...while the PM has 24-hour LAN parties in Downing Street
    5. Give contracts to friends who say they can deal with the threat (they deliver an abacus and 1 broken keyboard for £148 million)
    6. Lie to parliament about the LAN parties
    7. Lie to the public about lying to parliament about the LAN parties
    8. Set up an enquiry
    9. Withhold evidence from the enquiry
    10. Sell your memoirs
    Would number 8 be a machine led enquiry?
    machine LED enquiry, please.
    Are you expecting them to RAM it through?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Artificial intelligence could lead to the extinction of humanity, experts - including the heads of OpenAI and Google Deepmind - have warned.

    Dozens have supported a statement published on the webpage of the Centre for AI Safety.

    "Mitigating the risk of extinction from AI should be a global priority alongside other societal-scale risks such as pandemics and nuclear war" it reads."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65746524

    I did put AI Robo-apocalypse wiping out humanity at 1/2 in my odds list yesterday.

    The obvious flaw is in settling the bets.
    Lay the favourite event that if it does happen, everyone will be dead before the bets are settled!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147

    nico679 said:

    Meanwhile in the ever expanding book of Vote Leave broken promises the government confirms its no longer interested in a US UK trade deal .

    Any trade deal will happen only if and when it joins the CPTPP
    That’s not a trade deal with the US.
    That’s a much weaker deal, and not what was promised.

    The big prize for Brexiters was to join NAFTA 2.0, and to hell with those kiddy-fiddlers in Brussels.

    The idea that we no longer even want a US trade deal is a massive failure.

    There really aren’t so many blocs for the UK to secure close FTAs with.

    China has issues (and UK is currently begging with US to treat it favourably in the chip wars because it claims to be less invested in China than other big trading economies)

    EU we’ve told to fuck off.

    USA/NAFTA we are apparently no longer interested.

    CPTPP runs a very very very poor forth, and then you’ve got India (very tricky, although something is in the works), GCC (not worth much), Mercosur (ditto), Russia (currently sanctioned).

    Post-Brexit trade policy has developed not necessarily to the UK’s advantage.

    We should be very grateful the US has lost interest. It's when Uncle Sam starts making overtures that you pat for your wallet. Can you imagine Sunak saying 'No' to anything they would propose? Dockside hooker wouldn't come close.
    Wait until you see his deal with Modi.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319

    Keir is in a tight space on Brexit.

    Even a rotting artichoke at the back of my fridge knows that Britain needs to rejoin the single market, but that means FOM.

    Maybe it’s not your granny’s FOM, because there are possibly protections along the lines much essayed on here against welfare tourism, but it’s still FOM.

    But Keir has to rule it out because a good 25% of the population have sub-rotting artichoke IQs, or consume media that encourages them to think like sub-rotting artichokes.

    Sad, but politics is the art of the necessary.

    Keir has ruled it out because there's absolutely no reason for the UK to rejoin the Single Market, and Keir has like 85%+ of the country moved on and stopped obsessing over bloody Brexit anymore now that its done.

    All the myths about collapses or danger to the economy if the UK were to leave the Single Market have been shown to be nonsense and not come to pass, initially people claimed because we didn't invoke Article 50 immediately then for various reasons until eventually people have just moved on.

    You should too. Its not healthy anymore.
    The rotting artichoke speaks!

    You have no credibility on this subject I’m afraid.
    Trade, investment, and productivity are all in the doldrums.

    Anyone who wants growth knows the importance of the single market.

    If you want to argue for soporific declinism - and some do - then be honest about it.
    Productivity was in the doldrums within the EU. There's indications its already improving post-Brexit, just as some of us predicted.

    Anyone who wants growth knows the Single Market is a failure when it comes to growth. Anyone who is an obsessive about the EU and can't put their politics behind looking at the data, will come to your outcome.

    You are Hiroo Onoda still fighting the good fight even as the world has moved on.
    You are still repeating the “arguments” (and indeed the insults) of 2016.

    Talleyrand and the Bourbons applies.
  • Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Artificial intelligence could lead to the extinction of humanity, experts - including the heads of OpenAI and Google Deepmind - have warned.

    Dozens have supported a statement published on the webpage of the Centre for AI Safety.

    "Mitigating the risk of extinction from AI should be a global priority alongside other societal-scale risks such as pandemics and nuclear war" it reads."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65746524

    Don't worry. If an out-of-control AI does start eliminating swathes of humanity, we have the pandemic playbook to work from:

    1. Pretend it's an opportunity to get rich while other countries panic unnecessarily
    2. Make jokes about shaking hands with killer robots
    3. Everyone clap for the PM when he's hospitalised after having his hand torn off by a killer robot
    4. Enforce strict rules about interacting with technology...
    4a. ...while the PM has 24-hour LAN parties in Downing Street
    5. Give contracts to friends who say they can deal with the threat (they deliver an abacus and 1 broken keyboard for £148 million)
    6. Lie to parliament about the LAN parties
    7. Lie to the public about lying to parliament about the LAN parties
    8. Set up an enquiry
    9. Withhold evidence from the enquiry
    10. Sell your memoirs
    Would number 8 be a machine led enquiry?
    machine LED enquiry, please.
    Are you expecting them to RAM it through?
    Ministers will be too busy polishing up their BIOS to get second jobs.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    Theodore Dalrymple's latest article.

    "The Duke of Cambridge, I think it was, said that he was against all change, even for the better. This seems on the face of it absurd, but I have come to know what he meant, even if I do not myself go quite so far as did he: for the desire for change denotes a state of dissatisfaction. Its opposite, satisfaction, is preferable as a state of mind not only because it is more pleasant in itself but because dissatisfaction breeds a tendency to all kinds of imaginary perfections, which the attempt to put into practice usually ends in hell, or at least hellishness, on earth."

    https://www.newenglishreview.org/articles/the-duke-and-the-butcher/
  • Keir is in a tight space on Brexit.

    Even a rotting artichoke at the back of my fridge knows that Britain needs to rejoin the single market, but that means FOM.

    Maybe it’s not your granny’s FOM, because there are possibly protections along the lines much essayed on here against welfare tourism, but it’s still FOM.

    But Keir has to rule it out because a good 25% of the population have sub-rotting artichoke IQs, or consume media that encourages them to think like sub-rotting artichokes.

    Sad, but politics is the art of the necessary.

    Keir has ruled it out because there's absolutely no reason for the UK to rejoin the Single Market, and Keir has like 85%+ of the country moved on and stopped obsessing over bloody Brexit anymore now that its done.

    All the myths about collapses or danger to the economy if the UK were to leave the Single Market have been shown to be nonsense and not come to pass, initially people claimed because we didn't invoke Article 50 immediately then for various reasons until eventually people have just moved on.

    You should too. Its not healthy anymore.
    The rotting artichoke speaks!

    You have no credibility on this subject I’m afraid.
    Trade, investment, and productivity are all in the doldrums.

    Anyone who wants growth knows the importance of the single market.

    If you want to argue for soporific declinism - and some do - then be honest about it.
    Productivity was in the doldrums within the EU. There's indications its already improving post-Brexit, just as some of us predicted.

    Anyone who wants growth knows the Single Market is a failure when it comes to growth. Anyone who is an obsessive about the EU and can't put their politics behind looking at the data, will come to your outcome.

    You are Hiroo Onoda still fighting the good fight even as the world has moved on.
    You are still repeating the “arguments” (and indeed the insults) of 2016.

    Talleyrand and the Bourbons applies.
    Close to it.

    In 2016 I was saying that the claims of an immediate recession and millions unemployed if we voted to leave the EU were scaremongering nonsense and wouldn't come to pass.

    In 2023 I am saying the claims of an immediate recession and millions unemployed if we voted to leave the EU were scaremongering nonsense and didn't come to pass.

    Yet when ever Sir Keir Starmer has moved on, you are still stuck in 2016, claiming that disaster is still just over that hill. Just one more heave and we'll fall off that cliff.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401

    Starmers personal vow to Express readers apparently

    Not sure this is the message many on here want to read

    And by the way, I do not read the Express but it popped up on my timeline and I thought it would provoke debate

    Starmer rules out return of free movement between UK and EU in message to Express readers

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1775768/keir-starmer-labour-rejoin-eu-1775768#ICID=Android_ExpressNewApp_AppShare

    That won't do the Labour vote in Scotland any good, his being Boris Johnson Mk 2.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,314
    Nick Tyrone
    @NicholasTyrone
    A good explanation of why Britain joining something like CPTPP could never possibly replace this benefits of being in the European single market:
    https://twitter.com/NicholasTyrone/status/1662747038210043904?cxt=HHwWgMC9veTnoZMuAAAA
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,168
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I know Oxford has lower standards than, say, Cambridge, but how does someone this stupid get in?

    https://twitter.com/RobertBea/status/1663592272972087309

    You can now get into colleges like Lady Margaret Hall at Oxford with just 3 Bs at A level if you are assessed as a 'disadvantaged' student who went to a state school. Cambridge doing similar

    https://www.newstatesman.com/quickfire/2022/05/zahawi-misunderstands-why-oxbridge-lowers-grades-for-students-like-me
    Also: both Cambridge and Oxford have been very happy to give EE offers to students who impressed enormously at interview. (And, indeed, I got a EE offer from UCL.)
    Slacker. I got a UU offer from UCL.

    For those who weren’t around in the 90s, UCL would do this with groups of students with very high predicted grades. According to a prof, the actual results didn’t drop off much, if at all.

    Since I’d taken 2 A levels a year early, I got a place on the spot….
    The boasting by @rcs1000 that his daughter is smarter than him is touching and lovely, until one remembers that @rcs1000 is basically a car park attendant

    It is always impressive when kids can do something better than their parents.

    Fox jr2 had to do a still life for the school art prize once, never having done one before, and in his first year at secondary school. I suggested he do one for practice, and when I suggested that he needed to show 3 dimensions better, he demonstrated his technique for the highlights and shadows, within minutes they were on the paper.

    I was awed, and he won the prize. Later got an A at fine art A level.
    I honestly don't think my kids can do anything better than me. Except: be more nice, and be more sober. They are great at that whereas I was a fiercely competitive fuck up and a madcap drunk, and then a proper junkie

    I love my kids. I like their friends. I like their generation for their amiability, and their gentleness. Inspiring, they are not. We are all fucked
    Getting a bit of a Logan Roy vibe off you.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,871
    ...
    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    Meanwhile in the ever expanding book of Vote Leave broken promises the government confirms its no longer interested in a US UK trade deal .

    Any trade deal will happen only if and when it joins the CPTPP
    That’s not a trade deal with the US.
    That’s a much weaker deal, and not what was promised.

    The big prize for Brexiters was to join NAFTA 2.0, and to hell with those kiddy-fiddlers in Brussels.

    The idea that we no longer even want a US trade deal is a massive failure.

    There really aren’t so many blocs for the UK to secure close FTAs with.

    China has issues (and UK is currently begging with US to treat it favourably in the chip wars because it claims to be less invested in China than other big trading economies)

    EU we’ve told to fuck off.

    USA/NAFTA we are apparently no longer interested.

    CPTPP runs a very very very poor forth, and then you’ve got India (very tricky, although something is in the works), GCC (not worth much), Mercosur (ditto), Russia (currently sanctioned).

    Post-Brexit trade policy has developed not necessarily to the UK’s advantage.

    We should be very grateful the US has lost interest. It's when Uncle Sam starts making overtures that you pat for your wallet. Can you imagine Sunak saying 'No' to anything they would propose? Dockside hooker wouldn't come close.
    Wait until you see his deal with Modi.
    Don't.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319

    Keir is in a tight space on Brexit.

    Even a rotting artichoke at the back of my fridge knows that Britain needs to rejoin the single market, but that means FOM.

    Maybe it’s not your granny’s FOM, because there are possibly protections along the lines much essayed on here against welfare tourism, but it’s still FOM.

    But Keir has to rule it out because a good 25% of the population have sub-rotting artichoke IQs, or consume media that encourages them to think like sub-rotting artichokes.

    Sad, but politics is the art of the necessary.

    Keir has ruled it out because there's absolutely no reason for the UK to rejoin the Single Market, and Keir has like 85%+ of the country moved on and stopped obsessing over bloody Brexit anymore now that its done.

    All the myths about collapses or danger to the economy if the UK were to leave the Single Market have been shown to be nonsense and not come to pass, initially people claimed because we didn't invoke Article 50 immediately then for various reasons until eventually people have just moved on.

    You should too. Its not healthy anymore.
    The rotting artichoke speaks!

    You have no credibility on this subject I’m afraid.
    Trade, investment, and productivity are all in the doldrums.

    Anyone who wants growth knows the importance of the single market.

    If you want to argue for soporific declinism - and some do - then be honest about it.
    Productivity was in the doldrums within the EU. There's indications its already improving post-Brexit, just as some of us predicted.

    Anyone who wants growth knows the Single Market is a failure when it comes to growth. Anyone who is an obsessive about the EU and can't put their politics behind looking at the data, will come to your outcome.

    You are Hiroo Onoda still fighting the good fight even as the world has moved on.
    You are still repeating the “arguments” (and indeed the insults) of 2016.

    Talleyrand and the Bourbons applies.
    Close to it.

    In 2016 I was saying that the claims of an immediate recession and millions unemployed if we voted to leave the EU were scaremongering nonsense and wouldn't come to pass.

    In 2023 I am saying the claims of an immediate recession and millions unemployed if we voted to leave the EU were scaremongering nonsense and didn't come to pass.

    Yet when ever Sir Keir Starmer has moved on, you are still stuck in 2016, claiming that disaster is still just over that hill. Just one more heave and we'll fall off that cliff.
    I’m not predicting “disaster”.
    I am noting that British trade policy, post-Brexit, is not on course with promises made by Leave.

    This gives me no satisfaction.
    British growth has been fucked for some time and any sane person who looks at the situation points to

    Planning / Housing
    Infrastructure
    Industrial Policy
    Regional Policy
    Trade

    On the latter, membership of the single market is the single biggest boost we could deliver. No other trade deal comes near, and certainly not the CPTT, which I welcome but i recognise it for what it is.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694

    nico679 said:

    Meanwhile in the ever expanding book of Vote Leave broken promises the government confirms its no longer interested in a US UK trade deal .

    Any trade deal will happen only if and when it joins the CPTPP
    That’s not a trade deal with the US.
    That’s a much weaker deal, and not what was promised.

    The big prize for Brexiters was to join NAFTA 2.0, and to hell with those kiddy-fiddlers in Brussels.

    The idea that we no longer even want a US trade deal is a massive failure.

    There really aren’t so many blocs for the UK to secure close FTAs with.

    China has issues (and UK is currently begging with US to treat it favourably in the chip wars because it claims to be less invested in China than other big trading economies)

    EU we’ve told to fuck off.

    USA/NAFTA we are apparently no longer interested.

    CPTPP runs a very very very poor forth, and then you’ve got India (very tricky, although something is in the works), GCC (not worth much), Mercosur (ditto), Russia (currently sanctioned).

    Post-Brexit trade policy has developed not necessarily to the UK’s advantage.

    We have a free trade deal with the EU.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319
    edited May 2023

    nico679 said:

    Meanwhile in the ever expanding book of Vote Leave broken promises the government confirms its no longer interested in a US UK trade deal .

    Any trade deal will happen only if and when it joins the CPTPP
    That’s not a trade deal with the US.
    That’s a much weaker deal, and not what was promised.

    The big prize for Brexiters was to join NAFTA 2.0, and to hell with those kiddy-fiddlers in Brussels.

    The idea that we no longer even want a US trade deal is a massive failure.

    There really aren’t so many blocs for the UK to secure close FTAs with.

    China has issues (and UK is currently begging with US to treat it favourably in the chip wars because it claims to be less invested in China than other big trading economies)

    EU we’ve told to fuck off.

    USA/NAFTA we are apparently no longer interested.

    CPTPP runs a very very very poor forth, and then you’ve got India (very tricky, although something is in the works), GCC (not worth much), Mercosur (ditto), Russia (currently sanctioned).

    Post-Brexit trade policy has developed not necessarily to the UK’s advantage.

    We have a free trade deal with the EU.
    Are you really so dimwitted?
    It appears you are.

    We have a trade deal, a very light one, but it is no substitute for what we forfeited by leaving the single market (somewhat acrimoniously).
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,443

    Today was the first day I've been to Sainsbury's without a mask.

    What’s different about today?
    The person who drives me to Sainsbury's stopped wearing a mask last week. Sorry it is so mundane.
    No worries. But why did they stop? Genuine question - why would someone stop now? Rather than any other point?
    Not sure, tbh. His wife had been ill but there might also have been an element of him continuing to wear a mask because I did, and me because he did. It might even have been as mundane as running out of disposable masks.
  • Keir is in a tight space on Brexit.

    Even a rotting artichoke at the back of my fridge knows that Britain needs to rejoin the single market, but that means FOM.

    Maybe it’s not your granny’s FOM, because there are possibly protections along the lines much essayed on here against welfare tourism, but it’s still FOM.

    But Keir has to rule it out because a good 25% of the population have sub-rotting artichoke IQs, or consume media that encourages them to think like sub-rotting artichokes.

    Sad, but politics is the art of the necessary.

    Keir has ruled it out because there's absolutely no reason for the UK to rejoin the Single Market, and Keir has like 85%+ of the country moved on and stopped obsessing over bloody Brexit anymore now that its done.

    All the myths about collapses or danger to the economy if the UK were to leave the Single Market have been shown to be nonsense and not come to pass, initially people claimed because we didn't invoke Article 50 immediately then for various reasons until eventually people have just moved on.

    You should too. Its not healthy anymore.
    The rotting artichoke speaks!

    You have no credibility on this subject I’m afraid.
    Trade, investment, and productivity are all in the doldrums.

    Anyone who wants growth knows the importance of the single market.

    If you want to argue for soporific declinism - and some do - then be honest about it.
    Productivity was in the doldrums within the EU. There's indications its already improving post-Brexit, just as some of us predicted.

    Anyone who wants growth knows the Single Market is a failure when it comes to growth. Anyone who is an obsessive about the EU and can't put their politics behind looking at the data, will come to your outcome.

    You are Hiroo Onoda still fighting the good fight even as the world has moved on.
    You are still repeating the “arguments” (and indeed the insults) of 2016.

    Talleyrand and the Bourbons applies.
    Close to it.

    In 2016 I was saying that the claims of an immediate recession and millions unemployed if we voted to leave the EU were scaremongering nonsense and wouldn't come to pass.

    In 2023 I am saying the claims of an immediate recession and millions unemployed if we voted to leave the EU were scaremongering nonsense and didn't come to pass.

    Yet when ever Sir Keir Starmer has moved on, you are still stuck in 2016, claiming that disaster is still just over that hill. Just one more heave and we'll fall off that cliff.
    I’m not predicting “disaster”.
    I am noting that British trade policy, post-Brexit, is not on course with promises made by Leave.

    This gives me no satisfaction.
    British growth has been fucked for some time and any sane person who looks at the situation points to

    Planning / Housing
    Infrastructure
    Industrial Policy
    Regional Policy
    Trade

    On the latter, membership of the single market is the single biggest boost we could deliver. No other trade deal comes near, and certainly not the CPTT, which I welcome but i recognise it for what it is.
    I agree wholeheartedly on the need to tackle planning etc and have said as much myself. Keir Starmer actually seems to have a semblance of grasping this too, and has to his credit made some positive sounds on this in recent days. Whether he is serious and whether he will follow through when the NIMBYs revolt is another question, but if he does he could be a great Prime Minister.

    Reopening the Brexit Hokey Cokey arguing whether we should be in, out, or shake it all about once more is not what is needed to address our problems. Keir is entirely correct to let sleeping dogs lie there.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    Watching BBC News, I had no idea there was such a thing as a 3pm blackout wrt football coverage on TV in the UK.
  • nico679 said:

    Meanwhile in the ever expanding book of Vote Leave broken promises the government confirms its no longer interested in a US UK trade deal .

    Any trade deal will happen only if and when it joins the CPTPP
    That’s not a trade deal with the US.
    That’s a much weaker deal, and not what was promised.

    The big prize for Brexiters was to join NAFTA 2.0, and to hell with those kiddy-fiddlers in Brussels.

    The idea that we no longer even want a US trade deal is a massive failure.

    There really aren’t so many blocs for the UK to secure close FTAs with.

    China has issues (and UK is currently begging with US to treat it favourably in the chip wars because it claims to be less invested in China than other big trading economies)

    EU we’ve told to fuck off.

    USA/NAFTA we are apparently no longer interested.

    CPTPP runs a very very very poor forth, and then you’ve got India (very tricky, although something is in the works), GCC (not worth much), Mercosur (ditto), Russia (currently sanctioned).

    Post-Brexit trade policy has developed not necessarily to the UK’s advantage.

    We have a free trade deal with the EU.
    Don't tell him, Pike.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694

    nico679 said:

    Meanwhile in the ever expanding book of Vote Leave broken promises the government confirms its no longer interested in a US UK trade deal .

    Any trade deal will happen only if and when it joins the CPTPP
    That’s not a trade deal with the US.
    That’s a much weaker deal, and not what was promised.

    The big prize for Brexiters was to join NAFTA 2.0, and to hell with those kiddy-fiddlers in Brussels.

    The idea that we no longer even want a US trade deal is a massive failure.

    There really aren’t so many blocs for the UK to secure close FTAs with.

    China has issues (and UK is currently begging with US to treat it favourably in the chip wars because it claims to be less invested in China than other big trading economies)

    EU we’ve told to fuck off.

    USA/NAFTA we are apparently no longer interested.

    CPTPP runs a very very very poor forth, and then you’ve got India (very tricky, although something is in the works), GCC (not worth much), Mercosur (ditto), Russia (currently sanctioned).

    Post-Brexit trade policy has developed not necessarily to the UK’s advantage.

    We have a free trade deal with the EU.
    Are you really so dimwitted?
    It appears you are.

    We have a trade deal, a very light one, but it is no substitute for what we forfeited by leaving the single market (somewhat acrimoniously).
    Is this false then? Do we not have a free trade deal with the EU?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319

    nico679 said:

    Meanwhile in the ever expanding book of Vote Leave broken promises the government confirms its no longer interested in a US UK trade deal .

    Any trade deal will happen only if and when it joins the CPTPP
    That’s not a trade deal with the US.
    That’s a much weaker deal, and not what was promised.

    The big prize for Brexiters was to join NAFTA 2.0, and to hell with those kiddy-fiddlers in Brussels.

    The idea that we no longer even want a US trade deal is a massive failure.

    There really aren’t so many blocs for the UK to secure close FTAs with.

    China has issues (and UK is currently begging with US to treat it favourably in the chip wars because it claims to be less invested in China than other big trading economies)

    EU we’ve told to fuck off.

    USA/NAFTA we are apparently no longer interested.

    CPTPP runs a very very very poor forth, and then you’ve got India (very tricky, although something is in the works), GCC (not worth much), Mercosur (ditto), Russia (currently sanctioned).

    Post-Brexit trade policy has developed not necessarily to the UK’s advantage.

    We have a free trade deal with the EU.
    Are you really so dimwitted?
    It appears you are.

    We have a trade deal, a very light one, but it is no substitute for what we forfeited by leaving the single market (somewhat acrimoniously).
    Is this false then? Do we not have a free trade deal with the EU?
    Read my post.
    Read it and understand it.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694

    nico679 said:

    Meanwhile in the ever expanding book of Vote Leave broken promises the government confirms its no longer interested in a US UK trade deal .

    Any trade deal will happen only if and when it joins the CPTPP
    That’s not a trade deal with the US.
    That’s a much weaker deal, and not what was promised.

    The big prize for Brexiters was to join NAFTA 2.0, and to hell with those kiddy-fiddlers in Brussels.

    The idea that we no longer even want a US trade deal is a massive failure.

    There really aren’t so many blocs for the UK to secure close FTAs with.

    China has issues (and UK is currently begging with US to treat it favourably in the chip wars because it claims to be less invested in China than other big trading economies)

    EU we’ve told to fuck off.

    USA/NAFTA we are apparently no longer interested.

    CPTPP runs a very very very poor forth, and then you’ve got India (very tricky, although something is in the works), GCC (not worth much), Mercosur (ditto), Russia (currently sanctioned).

    Post-Brexit trade policy has developed not necessarily to the UK’s advantage.

    We have a free trade deal with the EU.
    Are you really so dimwitted?
    It appears you are.

    We have a trade deal, a very light one, but it is no substitute for what we forfeited by leaving the single market (somewhat acrimoniously).
    Is this false then? Do we not have a free trade deal with the EU?
    I see you accept that we have a free trade deal with the EU.

    I accept that being in the single market is far better for trading.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694

    nico679 said:

    Meanwhile in the ever expanding book of Vote Leave broken promises the government confirms its no longer interested in a US UK trade deal .

    Any trade deal will happen only if and when it joins the CPTPP
    That’s not a trade deal with the US.
    That’s a much weaker deal, and not what was promised.

    The big prize for Brexiters was to join NAFTA 2.0, and to hell with those kiddy-fiddlers in Brussels.

    The idea that we no longer even want a US trade deal is a massive failure.

    There really aren’t so many blocs for the UK to secure close FTAs with.

    China has issues (and UK is currently begging with US to treat it favourably in the chip wars because it claims to be less invested in China than other big trading economies)

    EU we’ve told to fuck off.

    USA/NAFTA we are apparently no longer interested.

    CPTPP runs a very very very poor forth, and then you’ve got India (very tricky, although something is in the works), GCC (not worth much), Mercosur (ditto), Russia (currently sanctioned).

    Post-Brexit trade policy has developed not necessarily to the UK’s advantage.

    We have a free trade deal with the EU.
    Are you really so dimwitted?
    It appears you are.

    We have a trade deal, a very light one, but it is no substitute for what we forfeited by leaving the single market (somewhat acrimoniously).
    Is this false then? Do we not have a free trade deal with the EU?
    Read my post.
    Read it and understand it.
    Well you changed it after I replied, see my post.

    There is no need to be so spiteful and nasty.
  • nico679 said:

    Meanwhile in the ever expanding book of Vote Leave broken promises the government confirms its no longer interested in a US UK trade deal .

    Any trade deal will happen only if and when it joins the CPTPP
    That’s not a trade deal with the US.
    That’s a much weaker deal, and not what was promised.

    The big prize for Brexiters was to join NAFTA 2.0, and to hell with those kiddy-fiddlers in Brussels.

    The idea that we no longer even want a US trade deal is a massive failure.

    There really aren’t so many blocs for the UK to secure close FTAs with.

    China has issues (and UK is currently begging with US to treat it favourably in the chip wars because it claims to be less invested in China than other big trading economies)

    EU we’ve told to fuck off.

    USA/NAFTA we are apparently no longer interested.

    CPTPP runs a very very very poor forth, and then you’ve got India (very tricky, although something is in the works), GCC (not worth much), Mercosur (ditto), Russia (currently sanctioned).

    Post-Brexit trade policy has developed not necessarily to the UK’s advantage.

    We have a free trade deal with the EU.
    Are you really so dimwitted?
    It appears you are.

    We have a trade deal, a very light one, but it is no substitute for what we forfeited by leaving the single market (somewhat acrimoniously).
    What we forfeited by leaving the Single Market was nothing special and did nothing to resolve our problems you rightly highlight when it comes to productivity, investment, housing etc all of which mounted up while we were in the Single Market.

    We have the trade deal minus the politics nonsense, that's exactly what suits the UK. Let that lie, and solve our real problems rather than fictional ones.
This discussion has been closed.