I don't know, my train was 45 minutes late on Tuesday and cost £60 for a return, is that better than it was in the past? Really?
Did you actually take trains in the past?
They were fearsomely expensive, they were dirty and they were unreliable.
But you know what. Don't take my word for it. Let's simply look at the number of rail passenger journeys:
What do you think this proves?
Do you think the perceived quality of the services is the main? only? driver of passenger numbers? Do you think that other factors might be at play? Some off the top of my head: increased population, increased house prices forcing changes to commuting habits, changes to the work done by women (increased number of working days, better career options than before), people switching jobs more frequently (and therefore more likely to choose commuting over moving closer to work).
I could go on, and these are all speculative. But throwing a graph out there and saying "more passengers; they must be happier" is a level of naivete that I find touching.
I think I read somewhere that there was a similar rise in passenger numbers in N.Ireland, despite railways not being privatized there. So that would suggest the rise wasn't due to that.
I don't know, my train was 45 minutes late on Tuesday and cost £60 for a return, is that better than it was in the past? Really?
Did you actually take trains in the past?
They were fearsomely expensive, they were dirty and they were unreliable.
But you know what. Don't take my word for it. Let's simply look at the number of rail passenger journeys:
Have you actually taken a Transpenine Express train recently? Or rather - not taken it from your starting point to your end point somewhat near the time stated in the timetable? At least the old British Rail trains did run.
The TPE trick is to run, say, the Manchester Airport to Edinburgh service only far as Bolton, which allows them to claim on time service for the stats. This is in addition to the many services they admit to cancelling. Arriva is only better in comparison to that non-service benchmark and you have take out a second mortgage for a journey you don't have any confidence they will actually take you on.
This CDO event sounds like the American CPAC events where each speaker tries to convince a sceptical audience they are the most Conservative (or indeed conservative).
The last time Conservative members had a vote they inflicted Liz Truss on the country (sorry @Luckyguy1983) - Arthur Balfour's famous quote springs to mind.
What is certainly clear is that while Sunak's government is now as unpopular as Major's was in the mid 1990s, Starmer is not seen as as credible a potential PM as Blair was by swing voters either. Hence 24% of 2019 Conservative voters are now DK with only 16% switching to Labour and a further 8% RefUK. While it is unlikely Sunak can pull off a Major 1992 shock narrow re election, Starmer is still seen as more credible a PM than Kinnock, Sunak could still get a hung parliament if he wins back DKs and defectors to RefUK by, for example, controlling the boats across the channel and proposing to raise the threshold for IHT to £1 million for all estates if the Tories are re elected.
If Sunak does close the gap we would certainly be heading for a hung parliament in England at least, leaving Starmer needing Labour to increase its lead in Welsh MPs and make gains from the SNP to take an overall UK majority. Remember Blair was the only incoming Labour PM to win a majority of English seats in a general election in 1997 since Attlee in 1945. Wilson in 1964 and February 1974 only won a UK majority with Scottish and Welsh MPs. Home and Heath won most seats in England. Starmer may therefore end up more Wilson than Blair and Sunak more Home 1964 than Major 1997
I don't know, my train was 45 minutes late on Tuesday and cost £60 for a return, is that better than it was in the past? Really?
Did you actually take trains in the past?
They were fearsomely expensive, they were dirty and they were unreliable.
But you know what. Don't take my word for it. Let's simply look at the number of rail passenger journeys:
Do you have the graph for total state subsidy per passenger journey? I know, both stats are functions of a variable with a very tailed distribution, but even so ...
Here's the total subsidy from Wikipedia:
When you combine inflation, economic growth and increased number of journeys, it is is incredibly obvious that subsidies have declined massively in real terms.
Let's put this in context for a second.
In 1990, the UK government spent £200bn. And of this, about £2.5bn was on British Rail. That's 1.25% of government spending.
In 2019, total government spending was £842bn. Of which £7bn was on rail subsidies (including HS2). WHich is 0.8% of spending.
And, of course, we get twice as many journeys for our money.
There's a reason why British Rail was referred to so often in jokes and sarcasm.
I’m fairly agnostic about Eurovision (which may encourage public tarring and feathering in the current climate), but is the BBC in danger of frotting itself into a seizure over the event? It’s fcuking relentless.
Yes. R4 Today is going on about it relentlessly, and has done for some time. I wonder what proportion of the R4 audience (average age 103) follow this sub ironic eurotrash?
77% care not very much or at all 19% care a great deal or a fair amount
rcs1000, and anyone else interested in the subject, can find much in there about California politics. (I haven't read Shellenberger's book on San Francisco.)
I’m fairly agnostic about Eurovision (which may encourage public tarring and feathering in the current climate), but is the BBC in danger of frotting itself into a seizure over the event? It’s fcuking relentless.
Yes. R4 Today is going on about it relentlessly, and has done for some time. I wonder what proportion of the R4 audience (average age 103) follow this sub ironic eurotrash?
77% care not very much or at all 19% care a great deal or a fair amount
I care more about Eurovision than I do about the coronation.
Interesting that countries have and look to leave the monarchy but more nations want to join Eurovision.
Some of the most successful nations in producing Eurovision winners eg Norway, Luxembourg, Denmark, the Netherlands and Sweden are constitutional monarchies like us, as is recent Eurovision joiner Australia
I don't know, my train was 45 minutes late on Tuesday and cost £60 for a return, is that better than it was in the past? Really?
Did you actually take trains in the past?
They were fearsomely expensive, they were dirty and they were unreliable.
But you know what. Don't take my word for it. Let's simply look at the number of rail passenger journeys:
Do you have the graph for total state subsidy per passenger journey? I know, both stats are functions of a variable with a very tailed distribution, but even so ...
Here's the total subsidy from Wikipedia:
When you combine inflation, economic growth and increased number of journeys, it is is incredibly obvious that subsidies have declined massively in real terms.
Mm, thanks. But I don't recall inflation being 700% between 1996 and 2006 ... also it omits the pre-82 years.
The total number of journeys is a tricky thing - it's not like cars, there is a limit to how many one can cram into a train, and current design certainly favours that - the revised 125s are noticeably less humane than the old ones. So there is a somewhat elastic relationship between passengers and costs.
And plainly there is some reason why renationalisation is necessary - LNER, Scotrail, now TransPennine (which were cencelling up to a quarter of trains ...).
That chart also includes enhancements, including Crossrail and HS2. The number of network enhancements going on are far and above anything BR did post-1960s.
(Railway infrastructure has three main areas: Maintenance (keeping the current equipment going); Renewals (renewing life-expired infrastructure), and Enhancements (improvements to the network). Enhancements have been a few billion a year for many years now.)
Comments
I’d take £30 quid off for a 45 minute wait any day of the week
But then I’m actually poor
Tech bro Rishi
NEW THREAD
The TPE trick is to run, say, the Manchester Airport to Edinburgh service only far as Bolton, which allows them to claim on time service for the stats. This is in addition to the many services they admit to cancelling. Arriva is only better in comparison to that non-service benchmark and you have take out a second mortgage for a journey you don't have any confidence they will actually take you on.
This CDO event sounds like the American CPAC events where each speaker tries to convince a sceptical audience they are the most Conservative (or indeed conservative).
The last time Conservative members had a vote they inflicted Liz Truss on the country (sorry @Luckyguy1983) - Arthur Balfour's famous quote springs to mind.
If Sunak does close the gap we would certainly be heading for a hung parliament in England at least, leaving Starmer needing Labour to increase its lead in Welsh MPs and make gains from the SNP to take an overall UK majority. Remember Blair was the only incoming Labour PM to win a majority of English seats in a general election in 1997 since Attlee in 1945. Wilson in 1964 and February 1974 only won a UK majority with Scottish and Welsh MPs. Home and Heath won most seats in England. Starmer may therefore end up more Wilson than Blair and Sunak more Home 1964 than Major 1997
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/apocalypse-never-michael-shellenberger/1134858807?ean=9780063001695
rcs1000, and anyone else interested in the subject, can find much in there about California politics. (I haven't read Shellenberger's book on San Francisco.)
(Railway infrastructure has three main areas: Maintenance (keeping the current equipment going); Renewals (renewing life-expired infrastructure), and Enhancements (improvements to the network). Enhancements have been a few billion a year for many years now.)
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/may/13/nurses-teachers-student-loan-reforms-biggest-squeeze