The strangest/dodgiest thing about Mourdant is her Royal Navy reserve claims.
Never been to sea but wears the dolphins. Worse than "dodgy".
Too arcane for most voters. Mordaunt did something-or-other in the RNR that probably involved a lot of ceremonial drill, the Nato alphabet and tying knots to prepare her for that final round of Tory defence cuts that will send the Royal Navy back to the age of sail.
“While this might not elicit a great deal of sympathy in many quarters, we must remember that similar dynamics are affecting all incomes. And this can create serious disincentives to career and wage progression — why work harder if marginal tax effects are so severe and the things one might aspire to are too expensive anyway?”
The strangest/dodgiest thing about Mourdant is her Royal Navy reserve claims.
Yeah, and actually it's not the only one. There are a number of mistruths of which that is one of the most prominent.
And she is known to be bone idle. Part-time Penny was her tag in office.
I remember reading one tory activist expressing surprise at the way she wafted into the Hay on Way book festival by helicopter and then out again shortly after. They felt that there was a chip missing. Something that didn't all quite click or feel right.
Others who have worked with her are less charitable.
To be fair to Mordaunt, a lot of the negative stuff comes from a full-scale, concerted Daily Mail attack on her during the Tory leadership campaign. They wanted Truss to win and saw Mordaunt as a major obstacle.
As we know from its pursuit of Ed Miliband and Keir Starmer, the Mail is not necessarily that focused on balance when it decides to go after someone in politics it has taken a dislike to.
I can easily see the Mail being a lot kinder to Mordaunt in the future. It will be as if its previous disdain and hatred had never existed!
Many Conservatives considered Mordaunt but her views on cultural issues blocked her path to the crown - which she otherwise ran close. The Mail simply responded to that.
Many left-wingers will be dismissive of that because they believe culture wars to be only when someone opposes what they want to do, and they'd far rather have no opposition, but to many Conservatives culture is very important.
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Mordaunt appeals to certain Tory tastes. She was smart, composed and competent yesterday, which distinguishes her from many of the leaders in her party.
Personally, not my cup of tea. I generally seek more from a leader than being able to carry a big metal stick and look severe, but appreciate how she might look refreshingly dignified to a certain type of Tory.
Will she be leader? I doubt it.
'Certain type of tory' includes Emily Thornberry and Alastair Campbell who have been unstinting in their praise for her !!
Big space between doing her part excellently yesterday and being a suitable party leader or PM.
If we can get round her having been politically partisan for quite a while, might she make a more than decent speaker?
Another thought on yesterday- it was splendid to have Rishi reading an epistle, but jarring in that case. It was a pretty hardcore bit of explicitly Christian theology being read by a non-Christian. Full marks to Rishi but not fair on him. There's plenty of "be excellent to each other" readings in both Testaments that would have been more appropriate. Someone on the Church side should have spotted that.
I through it unfair to ask him to read that piece,
I don't think he will have minded in the slightest.
I wouldn't have minded reading out a religious text for a friend at a ceremony, and indeed have worn a skull-cap at a synagogue before for a friend's wedding and joined in the chanting. I like tradition and ritual anyway and would view it as a sign of respect and would do my best to both appreciate it and understand it.
This sort of sentiment is more about our own discomfort with our own religion and traditions.
FWIW my faith teaches the notion that if you say something, you should believe it. The question is whether a reading is mere ceremonial recitation or has actual meaning and significance. At a CoE coronation, I think it tends towards the later, which meant I was sympathetic to the position Sunak found himself in with that particular reading. 🤷♂️
I think most faiths draw a distinction between making a personal pledge or commitment to your faith, or the equivalent in your private life - which is about sincerity and integrity- and a ceremonial one where you are respectfully playing a role for others. To some extent he might even have looked for lessons he could draw from and agree with in the text as well, which is what I would do. Religious people can often appreciate other religions rather well - they're not all fanatics.
We think he must have because he's non-white and a Hindu - and feel a bit cringey about him being "forced" to do our culture, again reflecting our own discomforts not his - but I can assure you he won't have minded in the slightest.
It's a total non-issue.
Who said it was an issue? I just felt sorry for the bloke.
BTW I assure you some faiths take very seriously the acts of saying what you believe and aiming for integrity wherever you might be and however small the statement.
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Mordaunt appeals to certain Tory tastes. She was smart, composed and competent yesterday, which distinguishes her from many of the leaders in her party.
Personally, not my cup of tea. I generally seek more from a leader than being able to carry a big metal stick and look severe, but appreciate how she might look refreshingly dignified to a certain type of Tory.
Will she be leader? I doubt it.
'Certain type of tory' includes Emily Thornberry and Alastair Campbell who have been unstinting in their praise for her !!
Big space between doing her part excellently yesterday and being a suitable party leader or PM.
If we can get round her having been politically partisan for quite a while, might she make a more than decent speaker?
Another thought on yesterday- it was splendid to have Rishi reading an epistle, but jarring in that case. It was a pretty hardcore bit of explicitly Christian theology being read by a non-Christian. Full marks to Rishi but not fair on him. There's plenty of "be excellent to each other" readings in both Testaments that would have been more appropriate. Someone on the Church side should have spotted that.
I through it unfair to ask him to read that piece,
I don't think he will have minded in the slightest.
I wouldn't have minded reading out a religious text for a friend at a ceremony, and indeed have worn a skull-cap at a synagogue before for a friend's wedding and joined in the chanting. I like tradition and ritual anyway and would view it as a sign of respect and would do my best to both appreciate it and understand it.
This sort of sentiment is more about our own discomfort with our own religion and traditions.
FWIW my faith teaches the notion that if you say something, you should believe it. The question is whether a reading is mere ceremonial recitation or has actual meaning and significance. At a CoE coronation, I think it tends towards the later, which meant I was sympathetic to the position Sunak found himself in with that particular reading. 🤷♂️
I think most faiths draw a distinction between making a personal pledge or commitment to your faith, or the equivalent in your private life - which is about sincerity and integrity- and a ceremonial one where you are respectfully playing a role for others. To some extent he might even have looked for lessons he could draw from and agree with in the text as well, which is what I would do. Religious people can often appreciate other religions rather well - they're not all fanatics.
We think he must have because he's non-white and a Hindu - and feel a bit cringey about him being "forced" to do our culture, again reflecting our own discomforts not his - but I can assure you he won't have minded in the slightest.
It's a total non-issue.
Who said it was an issue? I just felt sorry for the bloke.
BTW I assure you some faiths take very seriously the acts of saying what you believe and aiming for integrity wherever you might be and however small the statement.
He doesn't need your pity and, indeed, would probably laugh at it and view it as the slightly condescending attitude that permeates within white liberals to non-whites, particularly those who are conservative.
I have no doubt change is coming but not sure just how it will pan out
I very much doubt the conservatives will move against Sunak and, apart from the siren voices of the Nadine Dorries Johnson obsessives, Sunak will lead into GE 24
Johnson's attire yesterday was a disgrace as he showed no respect to anyone attending the event
Compare and contrast Johnson to the unexpected star of the coronation, Penny Mordaunt who has received congratulations and admiration for her 'sword bearing' from across the political divide including Emily Thornberry and most surprisingly Alistair Campbell
Well done Penny and one to watch
I would just add as an ambivalent monarchist, I do believe yesterday mattered to millions and even the Church of England tradition, while archaic, is important to many so why just not be pleased for everyone enjoying themselves rather than carping on the side
The 1953 coronation I witnessed was in a very different time with Churchill as PM and of course Britain was very much a colonial power and when I contrast it to yesterday, there has been a very welcome change to more inclusion and diversity.
I expect Charles will continue to adapt the monarchy to today's world and I wish him well and much prefer a monarchy to a republic but also fully understand why so many Commonwealth countries will become republics in time
There is obviously a disease in England and seemingly Wales now as well, a fake pretendy one day reserve Navy clown holds a sword for a few minutes at an arsehole's halloween party and Tories are gushing all over the place about how wonderful the no user is and how the Tories are no longer grifting , cheating , lying crooks. It is just unbelievable.
On topic, Sunak won't go anywhere because other factions are too small/disorganised/comedy to be able to get anywhere against him. However, I do expect them to increase their sniping now - which will go all the way down to the general.
The Brexit link weakening doesn't surprise me. Once Brexit was "done" it was always going to be the case that voters would then want delivery and that's where the Tories are perceived to be failing.
Yes, I agree. Not only would it be ludicrous to have a 4th Tory PM since the last GE, it is not clear that anyone else could do better. It's like Sunaks football club, too late to escape relegation.
The failure to deliver Brexit benefits was unsurprising. Sooner or later the lies get found out and there comes the reckoning. We saw that starting on Thursday, but I don't think it a recoverable position for the Tories. There is always the possibility of a black Swan, or a total Labour implosion, but no sign of either at present.
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Mordaunt appeals to certain Tory tastes. She was smart, composed and competent yesterday, which distinguishes her from many of the leaders in her party.
Personally, not my cup of tea. I generally seek more from a leader than being able to carry a big metal stick and look severe, but appreciate how she might look refreshingly dignified to a certain type of Tory.
Will she be leader? I doubt it.
'Certain type of tory' includes Emily Thornberry and Alastair Campbell who have been unstinting in their praise for her !!
Big space between doing her part excellently yesterday and being a suitable party leader or PM.
If we can get round her having been politically partisan for quite a while, might she make a more than decent speaker?
Another thought on yesterday- it was splendid to have Rishi reading an epistle, but jarring in that case. It was a pretty hardcore bit of explicitly Christian theology being read by a non-Christian. Full marks to Rishi but not fair on him. There's plenty of "be excellent to each other" readings in both Testaments that would have been more appropriate. Someone on the Church side should have spotted that.
I through it unfair to ask him to read that piece,
I don't think he will have minded in the slightest.
I wouldn't have minded reading out a religious text for a friend at a ceremony, and indeed have worn a skull-cap at a synagogue before for a friend's wedding and joined in the chanting. I like tradition and ritual anyway and would view it as a sign of respect and would do my best to both appreciate it and understand it.
This sort of sentiment is more about our own discomfort with our own religion and traditions.
FWIW my faith teaches the notion that if you say something, you should believe it. The question is whether a reading is mere ceremonial recitation or has actual meaning and significance. At a CoE coronation, I think it tends towards the later, which meant I was sympathetic to the position Sunak found himself in with that particular reading. 🤷♂️
I think most faiths draw a distinction between making a personal pledge or commitment to your faith, or the equivalent in your private life - which is about sincerity and integrity- and a ceremonial one where you are respectfully playing a role for others. To some extent he might even have looked for lessons he could draw from and agree with in the text as well, which is what I would do. Religious people can often appreciate other religions rather well - they're not all fanatics.
We think he must have because he's non-white and a Hindu - and feel a bit cringey about him being "forced" to do our culture, again reflecting our own discomforts not his - but I can assure you he won't have minded in the slightest.
It's a total non-issue.
Who said it was an issue? I just felt sorry for the bloke.
BTW I assure you some faiths take very seriously the acts of saying what you believe and aiming for integrity wherever you might be and however small the statement.
He doesn't need your pity and, indeed, would probably laugh at it and view it as the slightly condescending attitude that permeates within white liberals to non-whites, particularly those who are conservative.
Stay classy Casino. You might like to reflect on that comment.
Had a good night out with other half, baby and friends last night. But now I'm sick as a dog. Didn't touch a drop of booze not even 1 drink ! Unfair lol
The strangest/dodgiest thing about Mourdant is her Royal Navy reserve claims.
Never been to sea but wears the dolphins. Worse than "dodgy".
Too arcane for most voters. Mordaunt did something-or-other in the RNR that probably involved a lot of ceremonial drill, the Nato alphabet and tying knots to prepare her for that final round of Tory defence cuts that will send the Royal Navy back to the age of sail.
The issue is any claims she might make about her service.
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Mordaunt appeals to certain Tory tastes. She was smart, composed and competent yesterday, which distinguishes her from many of the leaders in her party.
Personally, not my cup of tea. I generally seek more from a leader than being able to carry a big metal stick and look severe, but appreciate how she might look refreshingly dignified to a certain type of Tory.
Will she be leader? I doubt it.
'Certain type of tory' includes Emily Thornberry and Alastair Campbell who have been unstinting in their praise for her !!
I don’t think either Thornberry or Campbell want her to be PM despite celebrating her good performance in a ceremonial role,
I might be wrong, but that was my point. There is a little bit more to the premiership than looking good at a ceremony.
There are however some Tories that would have liked it, largely because she contrasts so strongly with Sunak, Truss and Johnson.
I still doubt she will be leader.
I have no idea whether she will be leader, but the praise she is receiving is for a difficult job very well done
"A difficult job"? Have a word with yourself, fella.
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Mordaunt appeals to certain Tory tastes. She was smart, composed and competent yesterday, which distinguishes her from many of the leaders in her party.
Personally, not my cup of tea. I generally seek more from a leader than being able to carry a big metal stick and look severe, but appreciate how she might look refreshingly dignified to a certain type of Tory.
Will she be leader? I doubt it.
I think she could well become Tory leader on the back of that showing. I am not sure it would be a great idea, but I can definitely see it happening.
When you say its not a great idea, do you think it a great idea if they go for the other front runners like Badenoch, Boris, Braverman, Dowden either.....
On topic, Sunak won't go anywhere because other factions are too small/disorganised/comedy to be able to get anywhere against him. However, I do expect them to increase their sniping now - which will go all the way down to the general.
The Brexit link weakening doesn't surprise me. Once Brexit was "done" it was always going to be the case that voters would then want delivery and that's where the Tories are perceived to be failing.
Yes, I agree. Not only would it be ludicrous to have a 4th Tory PM since the last GE, it is not clear that anyone else could do better. It's like Sunaks football club, too late to escape relegation.
The failure to deliver Brexit benefits was unsurprising. Sooner or later the lies get found out and there comes the reckoning. We saw that starting on Thursday, but I don't think it a recoverable position for the Tories. There is always the possibility of a black Swan, or a total Labour implosion, but no sign of either at present.
I think the Tories’ best hope is that a disproportionate number of their normal support stayed at home on Thursday but will turn out in a GE. They really need that to be the case. If not, any defeat could be brutal because of tactical voting.
It looks as if the weather is going to be good for our street party this afternoon. I took up the suggestion on here of providing pork pies and good quality piccalilli as our contribution to the buffet. Have a good day everyone.
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Mordaunt appeals to certain Tory tastes. She was smart, composed and competent yesterday, which distinguishes her from many of the leaders in her party.
Personally, not my cup of tea. I generally seek more from a leader than being able to carry a big metal stick and look severe, but appreciate how she might look refreshingly dignified to a certain type of Tory.
Will she be leader? I doubt it.
'Certain type of tory' includes Emily Thornberry and Alastair Campbell who have been unstinting in their praise for her !!
Big space between doing her part excellently yesterday and being a suitable party leader or PM.
If we can get round her having been politically partisan for quite a while, might she make a more than decent speaker?
Another thought on yesterday- it was splendid to have Rishi reading an epistle, but jarring in that case. It was a pretty hardcore bit of explicitly Christian theology being read by a non-Christian. Full marks to Rishi but not fair on him. There's plenty of "be excellent to each other" readings in both Testaments that would have been more appropriate. Someone on the Church side should have spotted that.
I through it unfair to ask him to read that piece,
I don't think he will have minded in the slightest.
I wouldn't have minded reading out a religious text for a friend at a ceremony, and indeed have worn a skull-cap at a synagogue before for a friend's wedding and joined in the chanting. I like tradition and ritual anyway and would view it as a sign of respect and would do my best to both appreciate it and understand it.
This sort of sentiment is more about our own discomfort with our own religion and traditions.
FWIW my faith teaches the notion that if you say something, you should believe it. The question is whether a reading is mere ceremonial recitation or has actual meaning and significance. At a CoE coronation, I think it tends towards the later, which meant I was sympathetic to the position Sunak found himself in with that particular reading. 🤷♂️
I think most faiths draw a distinction between making a personal pledge or commitment to your faith, or the equivalent in your private life - which is about sincerity and integrity- and a ceremonial one where you are respectfully playing a role for others. To some extent he might even have looked for lessons he could draw from and agree with in the text as well, which is what I would do. Religious people can often appreciate other religions rather well - they're not all fanatics.
We think he must have because he's non-white and a Hindu - and feel a bit cringey about him being "forced" to do our culture, again reflecting our own discomforts not his - but I can assure you he won't have minded in the slightest.
It's a total non-issue.
Who said it was an issue? I just felt sorry for the bloke.
BTW I assure you some faiths take very seriously the acts of saying what you believe and aiming for integrity wherever you might be and however small the statement.
He doesn't need your pity and, indeed, would probably laugh at it and view it as the slightly condescending attitude that permeates within white liberals to non-whites, particularly those who are conservative.
I think you're projecting your own assumptions here. I'd feel the same discomfort in getting a white British agnostic to read that specific reading, because it only really means anything once you've inside the Christian circle. There are plenty of bits of the Bible that can be read on the basis of "here is universal wisdom for the whole world to think about" but not that one.
The strangest/dodgiest thing about Mourdant is her Royal Navy reserve claims.
Never been to sea but wears the dolphins. Worse than "dodgy".
Too arcane for most voters. Mordaunt did something-or-other in the RNR that probably involved a lot of ceremonial drill, the Nato alphabet and tying knots to prepare her for that final round of Tory defence cuts that will send the Royal Navy back to the age of sail.
The issue is any claims she might make about her service.
That came up in re the Westminster Abbey celebration of the retaliatory nuclear strike force. Apparently the marine mammals are also worn by the Duke and Duchess of Rothesay.
The strangest/dodgiest thing about Mourdant is her Royal Navy reserve claims.
Never been to sea but wears the dolphins. Worse than "dodgy".
Too arcane for most voters. Mordaunt did something-or-other in the RNR that probably involved a lot of ceremonial drill, the Nato alphabet and tying knots to prepare her for that final round of Tory defence cuts that will send the Royal Navy back to the age of sail.
The issue is any claims she might make about her service.
No, the issue is that Mordaunt's rivals will seek to get her bogged down in denials and clarifications, as last time and similarly to the demolition job on Andrea Leadsom around the precise nature of her bank directorship. The truth does not really matter.
I understood that after Penny Mordaunt's performance yesterday Conservatives are back in the game.
Or do they instead replace Sunak with a Johnson/Truss/ Braverman/Badenoch style headbanger?
I am still not comfortable that Labour are trusted enough yet for the Conservatives not to magic up another victory from thin air.
And that looks like an early first.
They’re not going to replace Sunak with anyone.
What do you base your pessimism/optimism about lack of trust Labour and a Tory victory on? You go on a lot about this but where’s the evidence to back up your assertion?
1992, the expertise of the PB Brains Trust, and commentary from media and academic insiders from all dispositions like Hodges, Jones and Goodwin. I am also confident the Tories will replace their last dud for the next in a heartbeat. If they get their timing right they win the next GE.
It looks as if the weather is going to be good for our street party this afternoon. I took up the suggestion on here of providing pork pies and good quality piccalilli as our contribution to the buffet. Have a good day everyone.
My wife was very pleased with the crown she made yesterday that she’ll wear at the one she’s going to with her friends. Husbands not invited. And not distressed about it!
The strangest/dodgiest thing about Mourdant is her Royal Navy reserve claims.
Never been to sea but wears the dolphins. Worse than "dodgy".
Too arcane for most voters. Mordaunt did something-or-other in the RNR that probably involved a lot of ceremonial drill, the Nato alphabet and tying knots to prepare her for that final round of Tory defence cuts that will send the Royal Navy back to the age of sail.
The issue is any claims she might make about her service.
That came up in re the Westminster Abbey celebration of the retaliatory nuclear strike force. Apparently the marine mammals are also worn by the Duke and Duchess of Rothesay.
The royals wearing a shitload of medals & insignia to which they have the most vestigial connection is no surprise. The true revelation in the piece you link to is that the silent service has its own tartan.
On topic, Sunak won't go anywhere because other factions are too small/disorganised/comedy to be able to get anywhere against him. However, I do expect them to increase their sniping now - which will go all the way down to the general.
The Brexit link weakening doesn't surprise me. Once Brexit was "done" it was always going to be the case that voters would then want delivery and that's where the Tories are perceived to be failing.
Yes, I agree. Not only would it be ludicrous to have a 4th Tory PM since the last GE, it is not clear that anyone else could do better. It's like Sunaks football club, too late to escape relegation.
The failure to deliver Brexit benefits was unsurprising. Sooner or later the lies get found out and there comes the reckoning. We saw that starting on Thursday, but I don't think it a recoverable position for the Tories. There is always the possibility of a black Swan, or a total Labour implosion, but no sign of either at present.
I think the Tories’ best hope is that a disproportionate number of their normal support stayed at home on Thursday but will turn out in a GE. They really need that to be the case. If not, any defeat could be brutal because of tactical voting.
It's a thing people on the right often miss, because the conservative vote in general elections is pretty well correlated with the Conservative Party. So more votes = more seats.
But with FPTP, the distribution of votes matters at least as much, maybe even more. Lib and Lab votes aren't automatically interchangeable, but when they do interchange efficiently, the Conservatives are in deep trouble.
The lesson for the right is don't drift too far off to the right, because if you go too far, the Lib and Lab positions will look interchangeably close and FPTP will kill you. A similar converse lesson applies on the left-see 1983 and 2019.
“While this might not elicit a great deal of sympathy in many quarters, we must remember that similar dynamics are affecting all incomes. And this can create serious disincentives to career and wage progression — why work harder if marginal tax effects are so severe and the things one might aspire to are too expensive anyway?”
Oh please. There are millions of people who can't afford to put food on the table, and we're supposed to feel sorry for someone on 200k a year? Let me dig out my tiniest violin. 🎻
Had a good night out with other half, baby and friends last night. But now I'm sick as a dog. Didn't touch a drop of booze not even 1 drink ! Unfair lol
I trust you know of the Wodehouse story of the hedgehog? An awful "warning to the young", indeed.
The strangest/dodgiest thing about Mourdant is her Royal Navy reserve claims.
Never been to sea but wears the dolphins. Worse than "dodgy".
Too arcane for most voters. Mordaunt did something-or-other in the RNR that probably involved a lot of ceremonial drill, the Nato alphabet and tying knots to prepare her for that final round of Tory defence cuts that will send the Royal Navy back to the age of sail.
The issue is any claims she might make about her service.
That came up in re the Westminster Abbey celebration of the retaliatory nuclear strike force. Apparently the marine mammals are also worn by the Duke and Duchess of Rothesay.
The royals wearing a shitload of medals & insignia to which they have the most vestigial connection is no surprise. The true revelation in the piece you link to is that the silent service has its own tartan.
Admittedly not a huge one, given that e.g. Mr Trump has his own tartan.
The fact the Tory voteshare was down by more in Leave areas than Remain areas shows why it may well have been a mistake to remove Boris in terms of holding the redwall. In 2019 normally Labour Leave voters lent their votes to Boris, note Boris not the Tories, now he has gone they will go back to Labour and their usual political home. Now some had already even with Boris but Boris' departure has made that departure quicken. Starmer was therefore clever in trying to do everything he could to remove Boris as Tory leader to maximise his chances of regaining redwall swing seats and Tory Leave held marginals.
Now Rishi did see a lower swing against him in Remain areas admittedly on Thursday than Boris did but he is still a Leaver and the Tories still lost lost of seats to the LDs in the bluewall. He is still safe now, the only viable alternative would be Boris before the next general election and most Tory MPs still would stick with Rishi on that choice
A useful reminder of the last time @Leon did this to us
lol. I just admitted in this thread that I said "some ludicrously over-optimistic things about Truss"
So, well done. You've just wasted 3 minutes of your life when you could have been keeping more boiled water warm
But I'm flattered that you actually hoard screenshots of my comments
The predictions of this poster have been bookmarked and are likely to be wrong/wildly inaccurate because of his/her/they's visceral hatred of the Tories.
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Mordaunt appeals to certain Tory tastes. She was smart, composed and competent yesterday, which distinguishes her from many of the leaders in her party.
Personally, not my cup of tea. I generally seek more from a leader than being able to carry a big metal stick and look severe, but appreciate how she might look refreshingly dignified to a certain type of Tory.
Will she be leader? I doubt it.
'Certain type of tory' includes Emily Thornberry and Alastair Campbell who have been unstinting in their praise for her !!
Big space between doing her part excellently yesterday and being a suitable party leader or PM.
If we can get round her having been politically partisan for quite a while, might she make a more than decent speaker?
Another thought on yesterday- it was splendid to have Rishi reading an epistle, but jarring in that case. It was a pretty hardcore bit of explicitly Christian theology being read by a non-Christian. Full marks to Rishi but not fair on him. There's plenty of "be excellent to each other" readings in both Testaments that would have been more appropriate. Someone on the Church side should have spotted that.
I through it unfair to ask him to read that piece,
I don't think he will have minded in the slightest.
I wouldn't have minded reading out a religious text for a friend at a ceremony, and indeed have worn a skull-cap at a synagogue before for a friend's wedding and joined in the chanting. I like tradition and ritual anyway and would view it as a sign of respect and would do my best to both appreciate it and understand it.
This sort of sentiment is more about our own discomfort with our own religion and traditions.
FWIW my faith teaches the notion that if you say something, you should believe it. The question is whether a reading is mere ceremonial recitation or has actual meaning and significance. At a CoE coronation, I think it tends towards the later, which meant I was sympathetic to the position Sunak found himself in with that particular reading. 🤷♂️
I think most faiths draw a distinction between making a personal pledge or commitment to your faith, or the equivalent in your private life - which is about sincerity and integrity- and a ceremonial one where you are respectfully playing a role for others. To some extent he might even have looked for lessons he could draw from and agree with in the text as well, which is what I would do. Religious people can often appreciate other religions rather well - they're not all fanatics.
We think he must have because he's non-white and a Hindu - and feel a bit cringey about him being "forced" to do our culture, again reflecting our own discomforts not his - but I can assure you he won't have minded in the slightest.
It's a total non-issue.
Who said it was an issue? I just felt sorry for the bloke.
BTW I assure you some faiths take very seriously the acts of saying what you believe and aiming for integrity wherever you might be and however small the statement.
He doesn't need your pity and, indeed, would probably laugh at it and view it as the slightly condescending attitude that permeates within white liberals to non-whites, particularly those who are conservative.
I think you're projecting your own assumptions here. I'd feel the same discomfort in getting a white British agnostic to read that specific reading, because it only really means anything once you've inside the Christian circle. There are plenty of bits of the Bible that can be read on the basis of "here is universal wisdom for the whole world to think about" but not that one.
James from 4:13 would have made a good reading:
13 " Now listen, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.”
14 Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes.
15 Instead, you ought to say, “If it is the Lord’s will, we will live and do this or that.”
16 As it is, you boast in your arrogant schemes. All such boasting is evil.
17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.
5;1 Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you.
2 Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes.
3 Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days.
4 Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty.
5 You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.
6 You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.
Had a good night out with other half, baby and friends last night. But now I'm sick as a dog. Didn't touch a drop of booze not even 1 drink ! Unfair lol
I'm sick as a dog, but that's because I had six pints with a close mate.
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Mordaunt appeals to certain Tory tastes. She was smart, composed and competent yesterday, which distinguishes her from many of the leaders in her party.
Personally, not my cup of tea. I generally seek more from a leader than being able to carry a big metal stick and look severe, but appreciate how she might look refreshingly dignified to a certain type of Tory.
Will she be leader? I doubt it.
'Certain type of tory' includes Emily Thornberry and Alastair Campbell who have been unstinting in their praise for her !!
Big space between doing her part excellently yesterday and being a suitable party leader or PM.
If we can get round her having been politically partisan for quite a while, might she make a more than decent speaker?
Another thought on yesterday- it was splendid to have Rishi reading an epistle, but jarring in that case. It was a pretty hardcore bit of explicitly Christian theology being read by a non-Christian. Full marks to Rishi but not fair on him. There's plenty of "be excellent to each other" readings in both Testaments that would have been more appropriate. Someone on the Church side should have spotted that.
I through it unfair to ask him to read that piece,
I don't think he will have minded in the slightest.
I wouldn't have minded reading out a religious text for a friend at a ceremony, and indeed have worn a skull-cap at a synagogue before for a friend's wedding and joined in the chanting. I like tradition and ritual anyway and would view it as a sign of respect and would do my best to both appreciate it and understand it.
This sort of sentiment is more about our own discomfort with our own religion and traditions.
FWIW my faith teaches the notion that if you say something, you should believe it. The question is whether a reading is mere ceremonial recitation or has actual meaning and significance. At a CoE coronation, I think it tends towards the later, which meant I was sympathetic to the position Sunak found himself in with that particular reading. 🤷♂️
I think most faiths draw a distinction between making a personal pledge or commitment to your faith, or the equivalent in your private life - which is about sincerity and integrity- and a ceremonial one where you are respectfully playing a role for others. To some extent he might even have looked for lessons he could draw from and agree with in the text as well, which is what I would do. Religious people can often appreciate other religions rather well - they're not all fanatics.
We think he must have because he's non-white and a Hindu - and feel a bit cringey about him being "forced" to do our culture, again reflecting our own discomforts not his - but I can assure you he won't have minded in the slightest.
It's a total non-issue.
Who said it was an issue? I just felt sorry for the bloke.
BTW I assure you some faiths take very seriously the acts of saying what you believe and aiming for integrity wherever you might be and however small the statement.
He doesn't need your pity and, indeed, would probably laugh at it and view it as the slightly condescending attitude that permeates within white liberals to non-whites, particularly those who are conservative.
I think you're projecting your own assumptions here. I'd feel the same discomfort in getting a white British agnostic to read that specific reading, because it only really means anything once you've inside the Christian circle. There are plenty of bits of the Bible that can be read on the basis of "here is universal wisdom for the whole world to think about" but not that one.
James from 4:13 would have made a good reading:
13 " Now listen, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.”
14 Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes.
15 Instead, you ought to say, “If it is the Lord’s will, we will live and do this or that.”
16 As it is, you boast in your arrogant schemes. All such boasting is evil.
17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.
5;1 Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you.
2 Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes.
3 Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days.
4 Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty.
5 You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.
6 You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.
The fact the Tory voteshare was down by more in Leave areas than Remain areas shows why it may well have been a mistake to remove Boris in terms of holding the redwall. In 2019 normally Labour Leave voters lent their votes to Boris, note Boris not the Tories, now he has gone they will go back to Labour and their usual political home. Now some had already even with Boris but Boris' departure has made that departure quicken. Starmer was therefore clever in trying to do everything he could to remove Boris as Tory leader to maximise his chances of regaining redwall swing seats and Tory Leave held marginals.
Now Rishi did see a lower swing against him in Remain areas admittedly on Thursday than Boris did but he is still a Leaver and the Tories still lost lost of seats to the LDs in the bluewall. He is still safe now, the only viable alternative would be Boris before the next general election and most Tory MPs still would stick with Rishi on that choice
Rishi isn't going anywhere - except maybe after the election!
I have no doubt change is coming but not sure just how it will pan out
I very much doubt the conservatives will move against Sunak and, apart from the siren voices of the Nadine Dorries Johnson obsessives, Sunak will lead into GE 24
Johnson's attire yesterday was a disgrace as he showed no respect to anyone attending the event
Compare and contrast Johnson to the unexpected star of the coronation, Penny Mordaunt who has received congratulations and admiration for her 'sword bearing' from across the political divide including Emily Thornberry and most surprisingly Alistair Campbell
Well done Penny and one to watch
I would just add as an ambivalent monarchist, I do believe yesterday mattered to millions and even the Church of England tradition, while archaic, is important to many so why just not be pleased for everyone enjoying themselves rather than carping on the side
The 1953 coronation I witnessed was in a very different time with Churchill as PM and of course Britain was very much a colonial power and when I contrast it to yesterday, there has been a very welcome change to more inclusion and diversity.
I expect Charles will continue to adapt the monarchy to today's world and I wish him well and much prefer a monarchy to a republic but also fully understand why so many Commonwealth countries will become republics in time
There is obviously a disease in England and seemingly Wales now as well, a fake pretendy one day reserve Navy clown holds a sword for a few minutes at an arsehole's halloween party and Tories are gushing all over the place about how wonderful the no user is and how the Tories are no longer grifting , cheating , lying crooks. It is just unbelievable.
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Mordaunt appeals to certain Tory tastes. She was smart, composed and competent yesterday, which distinguishes her from many of the leaders in her party.
Personally, not my cup of tea. I generally seek more from a leader than being able to carry a big metal stick and look severe, but appreciate how she might look refreshingly dignified to a certain type of Tory.
Will she be leader? I doubt it.
'Certain type of tory' includes Emily Thornberry and Alastair Campbell who have been unstinting in their praise for her !!
Big space between doing her part excellently yesterday and being a suitable party leader or PM.
If we can get round her having been politically partisan for quite a while, might she make a more than decent speaker?
Another thought on yesterday- it was splendid to have Rishi reading an epistle, but jarring in that case. It was a pretty hardcore bit of explicitly Christian theology being read by a non-Christian. Full marks to Rishi but not fair on him. There's plenty of "be excellent to each other" readings in both Testaments that would have been more appropriate. Someone on the Church side should have spotted that.
I through it unfair to ask him to read that piece,
I don't think he will have minded in the slightest.
I wouldn't have minded reading out a religious text for a friend at a ceremony, and indeed have worn a skull-cap at a synagogue before for a friend's wedding and joined in the chanting. I like tradition and ritual anyway and would view it as a sign of respect and would do my best to both appreciate it and understand it.
This sort of sentiment is more about our own discomfort with our own religion and traditions.
FWIW my faith teaches the notion that if you say something, you should believe it. The question is whether a reading is mere ceremonial recitation or has actual meaning and significance. At a CoE coronation, I think it tends towards the later, which meant I was sympathetic to the position Sunak found himself in with that particular reading. 🤷♂️
I think most faiths draw a distinction between making a personal pledge or commitment to your faith, or the equivalent in your private life - which is about sincerity and integrity- and a ceremonial one where you are respectfully playing a role for others. To some extent he might even have looked for lessons he could draw from and agree with in the text as well, which is what I would do. Religious people can often appreciate other religions rather well - they're not all fanatics.
We think he must have because he's non-white and a Hindu - and feel a bit cringey about him being "forced" to do our culture, again reflecting our own discomforts not his - but I can assure you he won't have minded in the slightest.
It's a total non-issue.
Who said it was an issue? I just felt sorry for the bloke.
BTW I assure you some faiths take very seriously the acts of saying what you believe and aiming for integrity wherever you might be and however small the statement.
He doesn't need your pity and, indeed, would probably laugh at it and view it as the slightly condescending attitude that permeates within white liberals to non-whites, particularly those who are conservative.
I think you're projecting your own assumptions here. I'd feel the same discomfort in getting a white British agnostic to read that specific reading, because it only really means anything once you've inside the Christian circle. There are plenty of bits of the Bible that can be read on the basis of "here is universal wisdom for the whole world to think about" but not that one.
I'm not projecting anything.
It's fine to participate in a religious service and simply wouldn't bother most people.
What you privately belief or don't belief is a matter for yourself and, frequently, is a bit inconsistent and messy anyway.
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Mordaunt appeals to certain Tory tastes. She was smart, composed and competent yesterday, which distinguishes her from many of the leaders in her party.
Personally, not my cup of tea. I generally seek more from a leader than being able to carry a big metal stick and look severe, but appreciate how she might look refreshingly dignified to a certain type of Tory.
Will she be leader? I doubt it.
'Certain type of tory' includes Emily Thornberry and Alastair Campbell who have been unstinting in their praise for her !!
Big space between doing her part excellently yesterday and being a suitable party leader or PM.
If we can get round her having been politically partisan for quite a while, might she make a more than decent speaker?
Another thought on yesterday- it was splendid to have Rishi reading an epistle, but jarring in that case. It was a pretty hardcore bit of explicitly Christian theology being read by a non-Christian. Full marks to Rishi but not fair on him. There's plenty of "be excellent to each other" readings in both Testaments that would have been more appropriate. Someone on the Church side should have spotted that.
I through it unfair to ask him to read that piece,
I don't think he will have minded in the slightest.
I wouldn't have minded reading out a religious text for a friend at a ceremony, and indeed have worn a skull-cap at a synagogue before for a friend's wedding and joined in the chanting. I like tradition and ritual anyway and would view it as a sign of respect and would do my best to both appreciate it and understand it.
This sort of sentiment is more about our own discomfort with our own religion and traditions.
FWIW my faith teaches the notion that if you say something, you should believe it. The question is whether a reading is mere ceremonial recitation or has actual meaning and significance. At a CoE coronation, I think it tends towards the later, which meant I was sympathetic to the position Sunak found himself in with that particular reading. 🤷♂️
I think most faiths draw a distinction between making a personal pledge or commitment to your faith, or the equivalent in your private life - which is about sincerity and integrity- and a ceremonial one where you are respectfully playing a role for others. To some extent he might even have looked for lessons he could draw from and agree with in the text as well, which is what I would do. Religious people can often appreciate other religions rather well - they're not all fanatics.
We think he must have because he's non-white and a Hindu - and feel a bit cringey about him being "forced" to do our culture, again reflecting our own discomforts not his - but I can assure you he won't have minded in the slightest.
It's a total non-issue.
Who said it was an issue? I just felt sorry for the bloke.
BTW I assure you some faiths take very seriously the acts of saying what you believe and aiming for integrity wherever you might be and however small the statement.
He doesn't need your pity and, indeed, would probably laugh at it and view it as the slightly condescending attitude that permeates within white liberals to non-whites, particularly those who are conservative.
Stay classy Casino. You might like to reflect on that comment.
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Mordaunt appeals to certain Tory tastes. She was smart, composed and competent yesterday, which distinguishes her from many of the leaders in her party.
Personally, not my cup of tea. I generally seek more from a leader than being able to carry a big metal stick and look severe, but appreciate how she might look refreshingly dignified to a certain type of Tory.
Will she be leader? I doubt it.
'Certain type of tory' includes Emily Thornberry and Alastair Campbell who have been unstinting in their praise for her !!
Big space between doing her part excellently yesterday and being a suitable party leader or PM.
If we can get round her having been politically partisan for quite a while, might she make a more than decent speaker?
Another thought on yesterday- it was splendid to have Rishi reading an epistle, but jarring in that case. It was a pretty hardcore bit of explicitly Christian theology being read by a non-Christian. Full marks to Rishi but not fair on him. There's plenty of "be excellent to each other" readings in both Testaments that would have been more appropriate. Someone on the Church side should have spotted that.
I through it unfair to ask him to read that piece,
I don't think he will have minded in the slightest.
I wouldn't have minded reading out a religious text for a friend at a ceremony, and indeed have worn a skull-cap at a synagogue before for a friend's wedding and joined in the chanting. I like tradition and ritual anyway and would view it as a sign of respect and would do my best to both appreciate it and understand it.
This sort of sentiment is more about our own discomfort with our own religion and traditions.
FWIW my faith teaches the notion that if you say something, you should believe it. The question is whether a reading is mere ceremonial recitation or has actual meaning and significance. At a CoE coronation, I think it tends towards the later, which meant I was sympathetic to the position Sunak found himself in with that particular reading. 🤷♂️
I think most faiths draw a distinction between making a personal pledge or commitment to your faith, or the equivalent in your private life - which is about sincerity and integrity- and a ceremonial one where you are respectfully playing a role for others. To some extent he might even have looked for lessons he could draw from and agree with in the text as well, which is what I would do. Religious people can often appreciate other religions rather well - they're not all fanatics.
We think he must have because he's non-white and a Hindu - and feel a bit cringey about him being "forced" to do our culture, again reflecting our own discomforts not his - but I can assure you he won't have minded in the slightest.
It's a total non-issue.
Who said it was an issue? I just felt sorry for the bloke.
BTW I assure you some faiths take very seriously the acts of saying what you believe and aiming for integrity wherever you might be and however small the statement.
He doesn't need your pity and, indeed, would probably laugh at it and view it as the slightly condescending attitude that permeates within white liberals to non-whites, particularly those who are conservative.
I think you're projecting your own assumptions here. I'd feel the same discomfort in getting a white British agnostic to read that specific reading, because it only really means anything once you've inside the Christian circle. There are plenty of bits of the Bible that can be read on the basis of "here is universal wisdom for the whole world to think about" but not that one.
James from 4:13 would have made a good reading:
13 " Now listen, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.”
14 Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes.
15 Instead, you ought to say, “If it is the Lord’s will, we will live and do this or that.”
16 As it is, you boast in your arrogant schemes. All such boasting is evil.
17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.
5;1 Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you.
2 Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes.
3 Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days.
4 Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty.
5 You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.
6 You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.
He does sound a bit of a Corbynista. doesn't He?
That's James, not Jesus, so no capital H.
And how could he have been a Corbynista? He was Jewish...
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Doesn't do much for me, either - other than recall some of the outfits in Disney's Alice in Wonderland - though I didn't actually watch the ceremony, so WDIK ? Lot of middle aged men on PB probably explains it.
The fact the Tory voteshare was down by more in Leave areas than Remain areas shows why it may well have been a mistake to remove Boris in terms of holding the redwall. In 2019 normally Labour Leave voters lent their votes to Boris, note Boris not the Tories, now he has gone they will go back to Labour and their usual political home. Now some had already even with Boris but Boris' departure has made that departure quicken. Starmer was therefore clever in trying to do everything he could to remove Boris as Tory leader to maximise his chances of regaining redwall swing seats and Tory Leave held marginals.
Now Rishi did see a lower swing against him in Remain areas admittedly on Thursday than Boris did but he is still a Leaver and the Tories still lost lost of seats to the LDs in the bluewall. He is still safe now, the only viable alternative would be Boris before the next general election and most Tory MPs still would stick with Rishi on that choice
There were some TV box pops in ****holes like Dudley (where the Con vote held up) with good honest Black Country Yeoman stock saying "I voted Labour, but I did vote for Boris last time, and I would have again".
“While this might not elicit a great deal of sympathy in many quarters, we must remember that similar dynamics are affecting all incomes. And this can create serious disincentives to career and wage progression — why work harder if marginal tax effects are so severe and the things one might aspire to are too expensive anyway?”
The article is paywalled so I can't read it in full but from the quote, as a former high-earner myself, I find this argument baffling.
What drove me to become a high-earner was a combination of things, some luck of course (working in the right industry), but also: some skills, a desire to make things happen, a pursuit of high standards, a willingness to work hard & long hours. The rewards were almost incidental.
I suffered from marginal tax rates at times but thought of 'not working so hard as there's no point in paying 60% on the bonus I might get' never entered into the equation.
My conjecture is that most people would work harder/longer, not less, if their tax rate goes up, to maintain their income if they can.
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Mordaunt appeals to certain Tory tastes. She was smart, composed and competent yesterday, which distinguishes her from many of the leaders in her party.
Personally, not my cup of tea. I generally seek more from a leader than being able to carry a big metal stick and look severe, but appreciate how she might look refreshingly dignified to a certain type of Tory.
Will she be leader? I doubt it.
'Certain type of tory' includes Emily Thornberry and Alastair Campbell who have been unstinting in their praise for her !!
Big space between doing her part excellently yesterday and being a suitable party leader or PM.
If we can get round her having been politically partisan for quite a while, might she make a more than decent speaker?
Another thought on yesterday- it was splendid to have Rishi reading an epistle, but jarring in that case. It was a pretty hardcore bit of explicitly Christian theology being read by a non-Christian. Full marks to Rishi but not fair on him. There's plenty of "be excellent to each other" readings in both Testaments that would have been more appropriate. Someone on the Church side should have spotted that.
I through it unfair to ask him to read that piece,
I don't think he will have minded in the slightest.
I wouldn't have minded reading out a religious text for a friend at a ceremony, and indeed have worn a skull-cap at a synagogue before for a friend's wedding and joined in the chanting. I like tradition and ritual anyway and would view it as a sign of respect and would do my best to both appreciate it and understand it.
This sort of sentiment is more about our own discomfort with our own religion and traditions.
FWIW my faith teaches the notion that if you say something, you should believe it. The question is whether a reading is mere ceremonial recitation or has actual meaning and significance. At a CoE coronation, I think it tends towards the later, which meant I was sympathetic to the position Sunak found himself in with that particular reading. 🤷♂️
I think most faiths draw a distinction between making a personal pledge or commitment to your faith, or the equivalent in your private life - which is about sincerity and integrity- and a ceremonial one where you are respectfully playing a role for others. To some extent he might even have looked for lessons he could draw from and agree with in the text as well, which is what I would do. Religious people can often appreciate other religions rather well - they're not all fanatics.
We think he must have because he's non-white and a Hindu - and feel a bit cringey about him being "forced" to do our culture, again reflecting our own discomforts not his - but I can assure you he won't have minded in the slightest.
It's a total non-issue.
Who said it was an issue? I just felt sorry for the bloke.
BTW I assure you some faiths take very seriously the acts of saying what you believe and aiming for integrity wherever you might be and however small the statement.
He doesn't need your pity and, indeed, would probably laugh at it and view it as the slightly condescending attitude that permeates within white liberals to non-whites, particularly those who are conservative.
I think you're projecting your own assumptions here. I'd feel the same discomfort in getting a white British agnostic to read that specific reading, because it only really means anything once you've inside the Christian circle. There are plenty of bits of the Bible that can be read on the basis of "here is universal wisdom for the whole world to think about" but not that one.
James from 4:13 would have made a good reading:
13 " Now listen, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.”
14 Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes.
15 Instead, you ought to say, “If it is the Lord’s will, we will live and do this or that.”
16 As it is, you boast in your arrogant schemes. All such boasting is evil.
17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.
5;1 Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you.
2 Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes.
3 Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days.
4 Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty.
5 You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.
6 You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.
Ezekiel 23, surely:
3 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother:
3 And they committed whoredoms in Egypt; they committed whoredoms in their youth: there were their breasts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity.
4 And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah.
5 And Aholah played the harlot when she was mine; and she doted on her lovers, on the Assyrians her neighbours,
6 Which were clothed with blue, captains and rulers, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding upon horses.
7 Thus she committed her whoredoms with them, with all them that were the chosen men of Assyria, and with all on whom she doted: with all their idols she defiled herself.
8 Neither left she her whoredoms brought from Egypt: for in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the breasts of her virginity, and poured their whoredom upon her.
This is a really good summary of the state of play and the run up to the General Election:
"As the final results across England were collated and announced on Saturday, the message became ever clearer. Arguments can be made about the level of support Labour received and whether it puts Starmer on course, as he insisted, for a majority at the next election.
What was unequivocal, however, was that this was an anti-Tory set of results. The party’s 26% projected national vote share was one of its worst performances and at the lowest end of expectations.
Meanwhile, there were huge wins by the Lib Dems and the Greens, who gained 405 and 241 seats respectively. The council gains made by Labour, despite a 35% vote share that was good if not spectacular, suggest a brutally efficient arrangement of the anti-Tory troops.
“It is true that in the 1995 locals, prior to Blair’s 1997 landslide, Labour got a 47% share of the vote, compared with 35% now,” said former Tory adviser Sam Freedman.
“But the Tories were in almost exactly the same place on 25%. The main shift between 1995 and 2023 is in the distribution of the anti-Tory vote, not its existence. Sunak is in just as bad a position as Major was then, and without even a once-in-a-generation political talent like Blair to blame it on.”
As a result, the Lib Dems prospered in the Hertsmeres of the south-east, while Labour secured gains in urban centres and towns where the party collapsed after Brexit and in the 2019 general election."
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Mordaunt appeals to certain Tory tastes. She was smart, composed and competent yesterday, which distinguishes her from many of the leaders in her party.
Personally, not my cup of tea. I generally seek more from a leader than being able to carry a big metal stick and look severe, but appreciate how she might look refreshingly dignified to a certain type of Tory.
Will she be leader? I doubt it.
I think she could well become Tory leader on the back of that showing. I am not sure it would be a great idea, but I can definitely see it happening.
When you say its not a great idea, do you think it a great idea if they go for the other front runners like Badenoch, Boris, Braverman, Dowden either.....
Dowden? You cannot be serious!
Once you have eliminated the impossible, what remains, however improbable...
The fact the Tory voteshare was down by more in Leave areas than Remain areas shows why it may well have been a mistake to remove Boris in terms of holding the redwall. In 2019 normally Labour Leave voters lent their votes to Boris, note Boris not the Tories, now he has gone they will go back to Labour and their usual political home. Now some had already even with Boris but Boris' departure has made that departure quicken. Starmer was therefore clever in trying to do everything he could to remove Boris as Tory leader to maximise his chances of regaining redwall swing seats and Tory Leave held marginals.
Now Rishi did see a lower swing against him in Remain areas admittedly on Thursday than Boris did but he is still a Leaver and the Tories still lost lost of seats to the LDs in the bluewall. He is still safe now, the only viable alternative would be Boris before the next general election and most Tory MPs still would stick with Rishi on that choice
I don’t think Johnson somehow still being in place would’ve made a difference. I don’t think there was any real deep love for him personally. He wasn’t Corbyn and he promised Brexit and lots of lovely levelling up. That was it.
The Red Wall, gulled into thinking a Tory Brexit would solve all its woes, had a collective amnesia around the 80s and what the Tories did - or perhaps more importantly didn’t do - as the industry went. The Tories had a golden opportunity to cement themselves in the Red Wall. And they couldn’t do it, because fundamentally they don’t care, or understand, the Red Wall. They don’t live here. They think Anderson is the Red Wall. The condescending fools.
Johnson was a superficially engaging frontman, shoved out to burble his outlandish horseshit to an all too receptive audience desperate to buy what he was selling. Once they saw the reality of Johnson the man and Johnson’s terrible Brexit, he was done. That’s why the Tories got rid of him.
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Mordaunt appeals to certain Tory tastes. She was smart, composed and competent yesterday, which distinguishes her from many of the leaders in her party.
Personally, not my cup of tea. I generally seek more from a leader than being able to carry a big metal stick and look severe, but appreciate how she might look refreshingly dignified to a certain type of Tory.
Will she be leader? I doubt it.
I think she could well become Tory leader on the back of that showing. I am not sure it would be a great idea, but I can definitely see it happening.
When you say its not a great idea, do you think it a great idea if they go for the other front runners like Badenoch, Boris, Braverman, Dowden either.....
Dowden? You cannot be serious!
Once you have eliminated the impossible, what remains, however improbable...
That assumes Dowden isn't one of the 'impossible.'
The immigration issue is interesting in that article. The anti-woke table thumpers seem to believe it's a vote winner and if you look at Mike's issues chart from the other day, you'd think it matters (unlike, say, trans bashing which doesn't).
But we're also all a lot more savvy these days. We can see all around us that there is a chronic staff shortage. In short, we NEED immigrants! The entertainment industry is collapsing because we chased out all those brilliant eastern European workers. White Brits don't want to get up at 3.30 am to go and pick potatoes in a muddy Lincolnshire field. And the NHS is falling apart because staff are leaving in droves.
I'm not sure Starmer could dare to go head-on about this, because the Hate Mail would be jabbering and screeching, but perhaps the anti-immigration right wing lurch of the current tory party is doing to their chances exactly what John Major did with his Back to Basics nonsense.
They're doomed. I know it. Most people know it. Just a few refuseniks for whom the scales are yet to fall.
The majority of workers in the jobs that immigrants do are actually UK citizens. There are a couple of exceptions - bar staff in core central London - but in general, this is true.
The idea that the British are too lazy to do the jobs should be consigned to the bin Oriental Lassitude went in. Remember that?
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Doesn't do much for me, either - other than recall some of the outfits in Disney's Alice in Wonderland - though I didn't actually watch the ceremony, so WDIK ? Lot of middle aged men on PB probably explains it.
She’s getting a lot of love from the female fashion community, however, Mordaunt is seen as having styled it out, quite magnificently
“Unexpected Coronation Star Penny Mordaunt Rocked One Of Summer 2023's Top Color Trends (Seriously, It's A Must-Try)”
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Mordaunt appeals to certain Tory tastes. She was smart, composed and competent yesterday, which distinguishes her from many of the leaders in her party.
Personally, not my cup of tea. I generally seek more from a leader than being able to carry a big metal stick and look severe, but appreciate how she might look refreshingly dignified to a certain type of Tory.
Will she be leader? I doubt it.
'Certain type of tory' includes Emily Thornberry and Alastair Campbell who have been unstinting in their praise for her !!
Big space between doing her part excellently yesterday and being a suitable party leader or PM.
If we can get round her having been politically partisan for quite a while, might she make a more than decent speaker?
Another thought on yesterday- it was splendid to have Rishi reading an epistle, but jarring in that case. It was a pretty hardcore bit of explicitly Christian theology being read by a non-Christian. Full marks to Rishi but not fair on him. There's plenty of "be excellent to each other" readings in both Testaments that would have been more appropriate. Someone on the Church side should have spotted that.
I through it unfair to ask him to read that piece,
I don't think he will have minded in the slightest.
I wouldn't have minded reading out a religious text for a friend at a ceremony, and indeed have worn a skull-cap at a synagogue before for a friend's wedding and joined in the chanting. I like tradition and ritual anyway and would view it as a sign of respect and would do my best to both appreciate it and understand it.
This sort of sentiment is more about our own discomfort with our own religion and traditions.
I broadly agree about reading out something for someone you don't agree with but respect. At the funeral of Gordon Skinner (Denis's brother and a very left-wing Labour councillor), a Conservative councillor (Tom Pettengell) who he'd known well socially came and sang The Red Flag with the assembly. I was sitting next to him and asked if it didn't feel strange - he said "Not at all, I'm singing it for Gordon." I missed Tom's funeral a few years later but I'd have been glad to sing Land of Hope and Glory there, for just the same reason. There are limits - I wouldn't sing the Horst Wessel Lied at the funeral of a Nazi acquaintance, but British politics AND religion are generally not as impossibly divided as that.
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Mordaunt appeals to certain Tory tastes. She was smart, composed and competent yesterday, which distinguishes her from many of the leaders in her party.
Personally, not my cup of tea. I generally seek more from a leader than being able to carry a big metal stick and look severe, but appreciate how she might look refreshingly dignified to a certain type of Tory.
Will she be leader? I doubt it.
'Certain type of tory' includes Emily Thornberry and Alastair Campbell who have been unstinting in their praise for her !!
Big space between doing her part excellently yesterday and being a suitable party leader or PM.
If we can get round her having been politically partisan for quite a while, might she make a more than decent speaker?
Another thought on yesterday- it was splendid to have Rishi reading an epistle, but jarring in that case. It was a pretty hardcore bit of explicitly Christian theology being read by a non-Christian. Full marks to Rishi but not fair on him. There's plenty of "be excellent to each other" readings in both Testaments that would have been more appropriate. Someone on the Church side should have spotted that.
I through it unfair to ask him to read that piece,
I don't think he will have minded in the slightest.
I wouldn't have minded reading out a religious text for a friend at a ceremony, and indeed have worn a skull-cap at a synagogue before for a friend's wedding and joined in the chanting. I like tradition and ritual anyway and would view it as a sign of respect and would do my best to both appreciate it and understand it.
This sort of sentiment is more about our own discomfort with our own religion and traditions.
I broadly agree about reading out something for someone you don't agree with but respect. At the funeral of Gordon Skinner (Denis's brother and a very left-wing Labour councillor), a Conservative councillor (Tom Pettengell) who he'd known well socially came and sang The Red Flag with the assembly. I was sitting next to him and asked if it didn't feel strange - he said "Not at all, I'm singing it for Gordon." I missed Tom's funeral a few years later but I'd have been glad to sing Land of Hope and Glory there, for just the same reason. There are limits - I wouldn't sing the Horst Wessel Lied at the funeral of a Nazi acquaintance, but British politics AND religion are generally not as impossibly divided as that.
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Doesn't do much for me, either - other than recall some of the outfits in Disney's Alice in Wonderland - though I didn't actually watch the ceremony, so WDIK ? Lot of middle aged men on PB probably explains it.
She’s getting a lot of love from the female fashion community, however, Mordaunt is seen as having styled it out, quite magnificently
“Unexpected Coronation Star Penny Mordaunt Rocked One Of Summer 2023's Top Color Trends (Seriously, It's A Must-Try)”
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Doesn't do much for me, either - other than recall some of the outfits in Disney's Alice in Wonderland - though I didn't actually watch the ceremony, so WDIK ? Lot of middle aged men on PB probably explains it.
I was a bit surprised to see Mordaunt is 50, I must be getting old as she seems quite young looking to me.
In contrast, I remember watching The Graduate as a teenager in the early 70s and being rather perplexed that Ben Braddock would find Mrs Robinson attractive - she seemed really old to me. (Anne Bancroft was 35 when the film was shot.)
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Doesn't do much for me, either - other than recall some of the outfits in Disney's Alice in Wonderland - though I didn't actually watch the ceremony, so WDIK ? Lot of middle aged men on PB probably explains it.
She’s getting a lot of love from the female fashion community, however, Mordaunt is seen as having styled it out, quite magnificently
“Unexpected Coronation Star Penny Mordaunt Rocked One Of Summer 2023's Top Color Trends (Seriously, It's A Must-Try)”
She is a very attractive woman but that doesn't mean she would be a good PM.
I believe we are all agreed on that. We are merely saying that she has seriously elevated her profile, making her more of a contender in a post-Sunak leader contest
She is already 3rd fave behind Kemi and Boris (and the Tories are surely not mad enough to try Boris again; his time has come and it has gone)
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Mordaunt appeals to certain Tory tastes. She was smart, composed and competent yesterday, which distinguishes her from many of the leaders in her party.
Personally, not my cup of tea. I generally seek more from a leader than being able to carry a big metal stick and look severe, but appreciate how she might look refreshingly dignified to a certain type of Tory.
Will she be leader? I doubt it.
I think she could well become Tory leader on the back of that showing. I am not sure it would be a great idea, but I can definitely see it happening.
When you say its not a great idea, do you think it a great idea if they go for the other front runners like Badenoch, Boris, Braverman, Dowden either.....
Dowden? You cannot be serious!
Once you have eliminated the impossible, what remains, however improbable...
That assumes Dowden isn't one of the 'impossible.'
This is the Tories we're discussing. We can't even be completely sure whether the return of the Truss is a good joke, or a prediction.
Faced with two possible outcomes, would you rather hold on to office with Boris, or go down to a narrow defeat with Rishi?
I suspect HY is right that Johnson enthuses RedWall hard of thinking voters, but does he repell even more BlueWall feudal Tories? I suspect he does.
The Conservatives can go in one of two directions to make themselves electable at the next GE. By installing caring, one nation Conservative serial foodbank openers like Penny Mordaunt as PM or to promote the Conservative Party of 30p Lee Anderson ("if you don't like the Coronation, leave the country") in the corpulent shape of Johnson.
Even if the second option is enough to win the next GE, I suspect it dooms the party in the longer term.
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Doesn't do much for me, either - other than recall some of the outfits in Disney's Alice in Wonderland - though I didn't actually watch the ceremony, so WDIK ? Lot of middle aged men on PB probably explains it.
I was a bit surprised to see Mordaunt is 50, I must be getting old as she seems quite young looking to me. ..
Catherine Deneuve once remarked that you can stay slim, or keep away the wrinkles. Not both.
The fact the Tory voteshare was down by more in Leave areas than Remain areas shows why it may well have been a mistake to remove Boris in terms of holding the redwall. In 2019 normally Labour Leave voters lent their votes to Boris, note Boris not the Tories, now he has gone they will go back to Labour and their usual political home. Now some had already even with Boris but Boris' departure has made that departure quicken. Starmer was therefore clever in trying to do everything he could to remove Boris as Tory leader to maximise his chances of regaining redwall swing seats and Tory Leave held marginals.
Now Rishi did see a lower swing against him in Remain areas admittedly on Thursday than Boris did but he is still a Leaver and the Tories still lost lost of seats to the LDs in the bluewall. He is still safe now, the only viable alternative would be Boris before the next general election and most Tory MPs still would stick with Rishi on that choice
Interesting analysis, much of which I agree with, but Boris had to go regardless. Even if he could have held the redwall he had to go because of all the immoral stuff he did.
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Doesn't do much for me, either - other than recall some of the outfits in Disney's Alice in Wonderland - though I didn't actually watch the ceremony, so WDIK ? Lot of middle aged men on PB probably explains it.
I was a bit surprised to see Mordaunt is 50, I must be getting old as she seems quite young looking to me. ..
Catherine Deneuve once remarked that you can stay slim, or keep away the wrinkles. Not both.
Neither in my case, sadly.
Re The Graduate, it has an interesting UK ratings history reflecting changing attitudes: 1968 - X, 1970 - AA, 2007 - 15, 2017 - 12A, 2023 - 12.
Good morning all. I’m sure everyone will join me in relief that the enforced TV bible bashing is behind us and we can settle into a proper weekend day of cooking programmes and football. And the rain has gone. Hurray!
The fact the Tory voteshare was down by more in Leave areas than Remain areas shows why it may well have been a mistake to remove Boris in terms of holding the redwall. In 2019 normally Labour Leave voters lent their votes to Boris, note Boris not the Tories, now he has gone they will go back to Labour and their usual political home. Now some had already even with Boris but Boris' departure has made that departure quicken. Starmer was therefore clever in trying to do everything he could to remove Boris as Tory leader to maximise his chances of regaining redwall swing seats and Tory Leave held marginals.
Now Rishi did see a lower swing against him in Remain areas admittedly on Thursday than Boris did but he is still a Leaver and the Tories still lost lost of seats to the LDs in the bluewall. He is still safe now, the only viable alternative would be Boris before the next general election and most Tory MPs still would stick with Rishi on that choice
Interesting analysis, much of which I agree with, but Boris had to go regardless. Even if he could have held the redwall he had to go because of all the immoral stuff he did.
The Johnson Privileges Committee report must be due out soon?
Good morning all. I’m sure everyone will join me in relief that the enforced TV bible bashing is behind us and we can settle into a proper weekend day of cooking programmes and football. And the rain has gone. Hurray!
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Doesn't do much for me, either - other than recall some of the outfits in Disney's Alice in Wonderland - though I didn't actually watch the ceremony, so WDIK ? Lot of middle aged men on PB probably explains it.
I was a bit surprised to see Mordaunt is 50, I must be getting old as she seems quite young looking to me. ..
Catherine Deneuve once remarked that you can stay slim, or keep away the wrinkles. Not both.
An interesting comment as PennyMordaunt has both the look and hairstyle of Catherine Deneuve.
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Doesn't do much for me, either - other than recall some of the outfits in Disney's Alice in Wonderland - though I didn't actually watch the ceremony, so WDIK ? Lot of middle aged men on PB probably explains it.
I was a bit surprised to see Mordaunt is 50, I must be getting old as she seems quite young looking to me. ..
Catherine Deneuve once remarked that you can stay slim, or keep away the wrinkles. Not both.
Neither in my case, sadly.
Re The Graduate, it has an interesting UK ratings history reflecting changing attitudes: 1968 - X, 1970 - AA, 2007 - 15, 2017 - 12A, 2023 - 12.
At this rate is will be a U by 2030.
The Graduate is the epitome of what changed in the Sixties in terms of fashion. In the film even the young people dress old. The breaking away from that is visible now with the Peter Pan approach to clothes. Outside work I dress much as I did 40 years ago, only with less hair.
“While this might not elicit a great deal of sympathy in many quarters, we must remember that similar dynamics are affecting all incomes. And this can create serious disincentives to career and wage progression — why work harder if marginal tax effects are so severe and the things one might aspire to are too expensive anyway?”
The article is paywalled so I can't read it in full but from the quote, as a former high-earner myself, I find this argument baffling.
What drove me to become a high-earner was a combination of things, some luck of course (working in the right industry), but also: some skills, a desire to make things happen, a pursuit of high standards, a willingness to work hard & long hours. The rewards were almost incidental.
I suffered from marginal tax rates at times but thought of 'not working so hard as there's no point in paying 60% on the bonus I might get' never entered into the equation.
My conjecture is that most people would work harder/longer, not less, if their tax rate goes up, to maintain their income if they can.
The really simple answer is it's the housing market, that's as brutal for someone in their 30s/40s on 100k a year as it is for anyone else. The fact is that for all income brackets, pay hasn't kept up with house prices, so if you want a "middle class" four bedroom detached house in a leafy area within commuting distance of your office (even if you only go in twice a week), the house is going to cost circa a million quid and that mortgage is going to suck up 50-70% of your household income.
The housing market is a vampire that sucks all the surplus money out of the economy, makes everyone with a mortgage poorer with less disposable income, and redistributes wealth upwards towards the elderly who bought property for a song and are mortgage free.
House prices need to fall, but to do that we need to build an extra 500k homes a year, or get immigration under control. The government appears incapable of doing either.
Good morning all. I’m sure everyone will join me in relief that the enforced TV bible bashing is behind us and we can settle into a proper weekend day of cooking programmes and football. And the rain has gone. Hurray!
The immigration issue is interesting in that article. The anti-woke table thumpers seem to believe it's a vote winner and if you look at Mike's issues chart from the other day, you'd think it matters (unlike, say, trans bashing which doesn't).
But we're also all a lot more savvy these days. We can see all around us that there is a chronic staff shortage. In short, we NEED immigrants! The entertainment industry is collapsing because we chased out all those brilliant eastern European workers. White Brits don't want to get up at 3.30 am to go and pick potatoes in a muddy Lincolnshire field. And the NHS is falling apart because staff are leaving in droves.
I'm not sure Starmer could dare to go head-on about this, because the Hate Mail would be jabbering and screeching, but perhaps the anti-immigration right wing lurch of the current tory party is doing to their chances exactly what John Major did with his Back to Basics nonsense.
They're doomed. I know it. Most people know it. Just a few refuseniks for whom the scales are yet to fall.
The NHS which has 189k more employees than three years ago:
If she had been wearing Naval uniform it would have been inappropriate, but she wasn't.
She's trying to have it both ways here. If she's a civvie and has been given permission to wear it then her only crime is vanity. If she's an officer, a role she occasionally cosplays, then she shouldn't wear it out of respect for those who have earned it and it's a regulation violation to put it on civvies. I don't wear my albatross wings on my Black Flag t-shirt for that very reason.
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Doesn't do much for me, either - other than recall some of the outfits in Disney's Alice in Wonderland - though I didn't actually watch the ceremony, so WDIK ? Lot of middle aged men on PB probably explains it.
I was a bit surprised to see Mordaunt is 50, I must be getting old as she seems quite young looking to me. ..
Catherine Deneuve once remarked that you can stay slim, or keep away the wrinkles. Not both.
Neither in my case, sadly.
Re The Graduate, it has an interesting UK ratings history reflecting changing attitudes: 1968 - X, 1970 - AA, 2007 - 15, 2017 - 12A, 2023 - 12.
At this rate is will be a U by 2030.
The Graduate is the epitome of what changed in the Sixties in terms of fashion. In the film even the young people dress old. The breaking away from that is visible now with the Peter Pan approach to clothes. Outside work I dress much as I did 40 years ago, only with less hair.
"Ms Mordaunt, you're trying to seduce me, aren't you?"
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Mordaunt appeals to certain Tory tastes. She was smart, composed and competent yesterday, which distinguishes her from many of the leaders in her party.
Personally, not my cup of tea. I generally seek more from a leader than being able to carry a big metal stick and look severe, but appreciate how she might look refreshingly dignified to a certain type of Tory.
Will she be leader? I doubt it.
'Certain type of tory' includes Emily Thornberry and Alastair Campbell who have been unstinting in their praise for her !!
Big space between doing her part excellently yesterday and being a suitable party leader or PM.
If we can get round her having been politically partisan for quite a while, might she make a more than decent speaker?
Another thought on yesterday- it was splendid to have Rishi reading an epistle, but jarring in that case. It was a pretty hardcore bit of explicitly Christian theology being read by a non-Christian. Full marks to Rishi but not fair on him. There's plenty of "be excellent to each other" readings in both Testaments that would have been more appropriate. Someone on the Church side should have spotted that.
It had reference to a throne in it, I assume that was the reason. But ctrl + f may have shown another decent example.
Like most Christian ceremonies (probably most religious ceremonies) it was endless repetition that God is Great and very little to do with the ostensible reason for the event. After about the 5th time we're reminded to praise God it's hard to escape the idea that the Lord is really insecure.
On topic, Sunak won't go anywhere because other factions are too small/disorganised/comedy to be able to get anywhere against him. However, I do expect them to increase their sniping now - which will go all the way down to the general.
The Brexit link weakening doesn't surprise me. Once Brexit was "done" it was always going to be the case that voters would then want delivery and that's where the Tories are perceived to be failing.
I can't see Sunak surviving a defeat where Starmer gets an overall majority, indeed it is difficult to see him sruviving any defeat where Labour takes over. The Tories are ruthless with their leaders
In which case who succeeds Rishi?
This is where Mordaunt has a chance, simply because she has name recognition and a kind of brand. Apart from her there's Kemi Badenoch. Maybe Cleverley, like @SouthamObserver says?
Jeremy Hunt will go down with the ship
The bookies have Badenoch as favourite, Boris 2nd favorite (just not going to happen, surely) then Mordaunt next, then Wallace
Who can pin the most blame on Rishi whilst looking like a fresh-ish face? Kemi and Mordaunt have a decent shot, and if Wallace wanted the job he'd have it by now.
Faced with two possible outcomes, would you rather hold on to office with Boris, or go down to a narrow defeat with Rishi?
I suspect HY is right that Johnson enthuses RedWall hard of thinking voters, but does he repell even more BlueWall feudal Tories? I suspect he does.
The Conservatives can go in one of two directions to make themselves electable at the next GE. By installing caring, one nation Conservative serial foodbank openers like Penny Mordaunt as PM or to promote the Conservative Party of 30p Lee Anderson ("if you don't like the Coronation, leave the country") in the corpulent shape of Johnson.
Even if the second option is enough to win the next GE, I suspect it dooms the party in the longer term.
It really is amazing that if you give away free food there's an unlimited number of people willing to take it.
If she had been wearing Naval uniform it would have been inappropriate, but she wasn't.
She's trying to have it both ways here. If she's a civvie and has been given permission to wear it then her only crime is vanity. If she's an officer, a role she occasionally cosplays, then she shouldn't wear it out of respect for those who have earned it and it's a regulation violation to put it on civvies. I don't wear my albatross wings on my Black Flag t-shirt for that very reason.
British military dress etiquette is as arcane and obscurantist as anything that the orders of chivalry on totally Hogwarts Island could come up with.
Faced with two possible outcomes, would you rather hold on to office with Boris, or go down to a narrow defeat with Rishi?
I suspect HY is right that Johnson enthuses RedWall hard of thinking voters, but does he repell even more BlueWall feudal Tories? I suspect he does.
The Conservatives can go in one of two directions to make themselves electable at the next GE. By installing caring, one nation Conservative serial foodbank openers like Penny Mordaunt as PM or to promote the Conservative Party of 30p Lee Anderson ("if you don't like the Coronation, leave the country") in the corpulent shape of Johnson.
Even if the second option is enough to win the next GE, I suspect it dooms the party in the longer term.
I think people are overdoing the distinction between the vote losses in red wall and blue wall.
The sense I got from the results this week plus polling on Johnson before he left was that the party - and Johnson - have been fairly universally unpopular across the board for a while. He had lost the trust of his former Brexit heartlands by spring 2022.
The red wall swung more than blue wall this time largely because the blue wall did disproportionately badly for the Tories in May 2019. So things are just equalising as the Brexit gap unwinds.
Sunak is just marginally less unpopular than Boris, who in turn was marginally less unpopular than Truss. But I’m not sure we’d see a huge Brexit-led difference in vote patterns between them these days.
If she had been wearing Naval uniform it would have been inappropriate, but she wasn't.
She's trying to have it both ways here. If she's a civvie and has been given permission to wear it then her only crime is vanity. If she's an officer, a role she occasionally cosplays, then she shouldn't wear it out of respect for those who have earned it and it's a regulation violation to put it on civvies. I don't wear my albatross wings on my Black Flag t-shirt for that very reason.
As a nihilistic, anarchistic rebel its rather sweet you draw the line somewhere:)
The immigration issue is interesting in that article. The anti-woke table thumpers seem to believe it's a vote winner and if you look at Mike's issues chart from the other day, you'd think it matters (unlike, say, trans bashing which doesn't).
But we're also all a lot more savvy these days. We can see all around us that there is a chronic staff shortage. In short, we NEED immigrants! The entertainment industry is collapsing because we chased out all those brilliant eastern European workers. White Brits don't want to get up at 3.30 am to go and pick potatoes in a muddy Lincolnshire field. And the NHS is falling apart because staff are leaving in droves.
I'm not sure Starmer could dare to go head-on about this, because the Hate Mail would be jabbering and screeching, but perhaps the anti-immigration right wing lurch of the current tory party is doing to their chances exactly what John Major did with his Back to Basics nonsense.
They're doomed. I know it. Most people know it. Just a few refuseniks for whom the scales are yet to fall.
The NHS which has 189k more employees than three years ago:
And if you're saying that all the 'brilliant' migrant workers have left doesn't that suggest that all the rubbish ones are still here ?
Several people on here have reacted to non European immigration being high by saying that it is of people who are low skilled relative to the Europeans.
I’ve not seen actual evidence of the true or falsity of this assertion.
Good morning all. I’m sure everyone will join me in relief that the enforced TV bible bashing is behind us and we can settle into a proper weekend day of cooking programmes and football. And the rain has gone. Hurray!
Shortly off for a bit of live Bible Bashing!
Presumably entirely voluntary and not blanket broadcast across every main telly channel at the expense of Saturday Morning Kitchen and Football Focus? If so, enjoy!
A useful reminder of the last time @Leon did this to us
Brilliant and a certain entry for most barking post of the year. But it seems unfair that Leon shouldn't share it with the three posters who 'liked' it.
If the Tories replace Sunak, they would be declaring themselves a fundamentally unserious party and would suffer the consequences at the subsequent election. They would be destroyed. He’s the best hope they have - by a long distance.
The Mordaunt love really perplexes me. I thought she looked really peculiar. Her outfit was utterly bizarre. Her whole set-up and demeanour screamed high camp, nothing more. But I am clearly in the minority - at least on here!
Doesn't do much for me, either - other than recall some of the outfits in Disney's Alice in Wonderland - though I didn't actually watch the ceremony, so WDIK ? Lot of middle aged men on PB probably explains it.
I was a bit surprised to see Mordaunt is 50, I must be getting old as she seems quite young looking to me. ..
Catherine Deneuve once remarked that you can stay slim, or keep away the wrinkles. Not both.
Neither in my case, sadly.
Re The Graduate, it has an interesting UK ratings history reflecting changing attitudes: 1968 - X, 1970 - AA, 2007 - 15, 2017 - 12A, 2023 - 12.
At this rate is will be a U by 2030.
The Graduate is the epitome of what changed in the Sixties in terms of fashion. In the film even the young people dress old. The breaking away from that is visible now with the Peter Pan approach to clothes. Outside work I dress much as I did 40 years ago, only with less hair.
When I was a nipper there were a few adding teddy boys round here, with very thin DAs and the big jackets. I used to think they were sad old men, desperate to cling on to their youth.
Now, like you, I still dress pretty much like I did in the 90s and I’m in my mid-40s. Doesn’t seem so incongruous now. My dad’s 70 and wears jeans, t-shirts and trainers. At that age his dad was wearing beige slacks and a tie.
“While this might not elicit a great deal of sympathy in many quarters, we must remember that similar dynamics are affecting all incomes. And this can create serious disincentives to career and wage progression — why work harder if marginal tax effects are so severe and the things one might aspire to are too expensive anyway?”
The article is paywalled so I can't read it in full but from the quote, as a former high-earner myself, I find this argument baffling.
What drove me to become a high-earner was a combination of things, some luck of course (working in the right industry), but also: some skills, a desire to make things happen, a pursuit of high standards, a willingness to work hard & long hours. The rewards were almost incidental.
I suffered from marginal tax rates at times but thought of 'not working so hard as there's no point in paying 60% on the bonus I might get' never entered into the equation.
My conjecture is that most people would work harder/longer, not less, if their tax rate goes up, to maintain their income if they can.
The really simple answer is it's the housing market, that's as brutal for someone in their 30s/40s on 100k a year as it is for anyone else. The fact is that for all income brackets, pay hasn't kept up with house prices, so if you want a "middle class" four bedroom detached house in a leafy area within commuting distance of your office (even if you only go in twice a week), the house is going to cost circa a million quid and that mortgage is going to suck up 50-70% of your household income.
The housing market is a vampire that sucks all the surplus money out of the economy, makes everyone with a mortgage poorer with less disposable income, and redistributes wealth upwards towards the elderly who bought property for a song and are mortgage free.
House prices need to fall, but to do that we need to build an extra 500k homes a year, or get immigration under control. The government appears incapable of doing either.
Almost fully agree, with the caveat that people's desire to stay in large houses despite having smaller households (later marriage, more divorce, empty nesters) is as much, if not more, of a problem than pure population growth. But those phenomena are less visible.
But the key thing is that most of us don't notice how harmfully high house prices are, or how much national prosperity they have sucked out of anything productive. It's often invisible.
And two examples of the power of the invisible over the material seem like as good a cue as any to tootle off to church. Laters.
Good morning all. I’m sure everyone will join me in relief that the enforced TV bible bashing is behind us and we can settle into a proper weekend day of cooking programmes and football. And the rain has gone. Hurray!
At least - I hope - we will now be spared your truly bizarre discourse from yesterday, which consisted of:
“Well that was all underwhelming - I didn’t watch a minute if it - that was a total wash out - I only saw one boring glimpse - it was all so boring and religious - I didn’t see any of it - why did Charles look so sad and miserable - I’m glad I skipped the entire thing”
Faced with two possible outcomes, would you rather hold on to office with Boris, or go down to a narrow defeat with Rishi?
I suspect HY is right that Johnson enthuses RedWall hard of thinking voters, but does he repell even more BlueWall feudal Tories? I suspect he does.
The Conservatives can go in one of two directions to make themselves electable at the next GE. By installing caring, one nation Conservative serial foodbank openers like Penny Mordaunt as PM or to promote the Conservative Party of 30p Lee Anderson ("if you don't like the Coronation, leave the country") in the corpulent shape of Johnson.
Even if the second option is enough to win the next GE, I suspect it dooms the party in the longer term.
It really is amazing that if you give away free food there's an unlimited number of people willing to take it.
The fact the Tory voteshare was down by more in Leave areas than Remain areas shows why it may well have been a mistake to remove Boris in terms of holding the redwall. In 2019 normally Labour Leave voters lent their votes to Boris, note Boris not the Tories, now he has gone they will go back to Labour and their usual political home. Now some had already even with Boris but Boris' departure has made that departure quicken. Starmer was therefore clever in trying to do everything he could to remove Boris as Tory leader to maximise his chances of regaining redwall swing seats and Tory Leave held marginals.
Now Rishi did see a lower swing against him in Remain areas admittedly on Thursday than Boris did but he is still a Leaver and the Tories still lost lost of seats to the LDs in the bluewall. He is still safe now, the only viable alternative would be Boris before the next general election and most Tory MPs still would stick with Rishi on that choice
Interesting analysis, much of which I agree with, but Boris had to go regardless. Even if he could have held the redwall he had to go because of all the immoral stuff he did.
That is what his fans ignore. The party probably did do worse than if he'd been kept (that wasn't certain but the utter chaos of the Truss period probably permanently lost them voters), I think it's fair for them to argue that and to acknowledge they could be right.
But there was a flip side risk that it could have been worse and even if not he was too big a problem - because of his endless scandals which would only have continued because the man is not able to change.
Good morning all. I’m sure everyone will join me in relief that the enforced TV bible bashing is behind us and we can settle into a proper weekend day of cooking programmes and football. And the rain has gone. Hurray!
You assume far too.much.
The relief among the people is palpable, on this bright spring morn. The rainy sermon is over, and just rejoice at that news.
Comments
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/200k-a-year-and-struggling-affluence-isnt-what-it-was-6sdmx3ml8
“While this might not elicit a great deal of sympathy in many quarters, we must remember that similar dynamics are affecting all incomes. And this can create serious disincentives to career and wage progression — why work harder if marginal tax effects are so severe and the things one might aspire to are too expensive anyway?”
Many left-wingers will be dismissive of that because they believe culture wars to be only when someone opposes what they want to do, and they'd far rather have no opposition, but to many Conservatives culture is very important.
BTW I assure you some faiths take very seriously the acts of saying what you believe and aiming for integrity wherever you might be and however small the statement.
Texas shooting: Eight killed by gunman in Allen mall
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65515915
The failure to deliver Brexit benefits was unsurprising. Sooner or later the lies get found out and there comes the reckoning. We saw that starting on Thursday, but I don't think it a recoverable position for the Tories. There is always the possibility of a black Swan, or a total Labour implosion, but no sign of either at present.
Unfair lol
Can't say he didn't warn us.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/06/us/chico-california-mass-shooting/index.html
https://fullfact.org/online/penny-mordaunt-dolphins-submarine-badge/
Also I note power consumption was up about 22% there.
People cranking up the Aircon will just add to the overall heat.
It is that hot in Bangkok: it is too hot to go outside and take a dip in a pool. Never seen that before
But with FPTP, the distribution of votes matters at least as much, maybe even more. Lib and Lab votes aren't automatically interchangeable, but when they do interchange efficiently, the Conservatives are in deep trouble.
The lesson for the right is don't drift too far off to the right, because if you go too far, the Lib and Lab positions will look interchangeably close and FPTP will kill you. A similar converse lesson applies on the left-see 1983 and 2019.
https://www.ilcovile.it/scritti/Manifesto_Wodehouse_A4_Inglese.pdf
Now Rishi did see a lower swing against him in Remain areas admittedly on Thursday than Boris did but he is still a Leaver and the Tories still lost lost of seats to the LDs in the bluewall. He is still safe now, the only viable alternative would be Boris before the next general election and most Tory MPs still would stick with Rishi on that choice
because of his/her/they's visceral hatred
of the Tories.
13 " Now listen, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.”
14 Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes.
15 Instead, you ought to say, “If it is the Lord’s will, we will live and do this or that.”
16 As it is, you boast in your arrogant schemes. All such boasting is evil.
17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.
5;1 Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you.
2 Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes.
3 Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days.
4 Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty.
5 You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.
6 You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.
It's fine to participate in a religious service and simply wouldn't bother most people.
What you privately belief or don't belief is a matter for yourself and, frequently, is a bit inconsistent and messy anyway.
I went too far.
And how could he have been a Corbynista? He was Jewish...
Lot of middle aged men on PB probably explains it.
What drove me to become a high-earner was a combination of things, some luck of course (working in the right industry), but also: some skills, a desire to make things happen, a pursuit of high standards, a willingness to work hard & long hours. The rewards were almost incidental.
I suffered from marginal tax rates at times but thought of 'not working so hard as there's no point in paying 60% on the bonus I might get' never entered into the equation.
My conjecture is that most people would work harder/longer, not less, if their tax rate goes up, to maintain their income if they can.
3 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother:
3 And they committed whoredoms in Egypt; they committed whoredoms in their youth: there were their breasts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity.
4 And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah.
5 And Aholah played the harlot when she was mine; and she doted on her lovers, on the Assyrians her neighbours,
6 Which were clothed with blue, captains and rulers, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding upon horses.
7 Thus she committed her whoredoms with them, with all them that were the chosen men of Assyria, and with all on whom she doted: with all their idols she defiled herself.
8 Neither left she her whoredoms brought from Egypt: for in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the breasts of her virginity, and poured their whoredom upon her.
"As the final results across England were collated and announced on Saturday, the message became ever clearer. Arguments can be made about the level of support Labour received and whether it puts Starmer on course, as he insisted, for a majority at the next election.
What was unequivocal, however, was that this was an anti-Tory set of results. The party’s 26% projected national vote share was one of its worst performances and at the lowest end of expectations.
Meanwhile, there were huge wins by the Lib Dems and the Greens, who gained 405 and 241 seats respectively. The council gains made by Labour, despite a 35% vote share that was good if not spectacular, suggest a brutally efficient arrangement of the anti-Tory troops.
“It is true that in the 1995 locals, prior to Blair’s 1997 landslide, Labour got a 47% share of the vote, compared with 35% now,” said former Tory adviser Sam Freedman.
“But the Tories were in almost exactly the same place on 25%. The main shift between 1995 and 2023 is in the distribution of the anti-Tory vote, not its existence. Sunak is in just as bad a position as Major was then, and without even a once-in-a-generation political talent like Blair to blame it on.”
As a result, the Lib Dems prospered in the Hertsmeres of the south-east, while Labour secured gains in urban centres and towns where the party collapsed after Brexit and in the 2019 general election."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/07/anti-tory-coalition-leaves-party-reeling-and-ministers-at-risk-after-polls-disaster
Well, Corbyn’s gone. And Brexit’s, well, sub-optimal. Levelling up? Yeah, right…
The Red Wall, gulled into thinking a Tory Brexit would solve all its woes, had a collective amnesia around the 80s and what the Tories did - or perhaps more importantly didn’t do - as the industry went. The Tories had a golden opportunity to cement themselves in the Red Wall. And they couldn’t do it, because fundamentally they don’t care, or understand, the Red Wall. They don’t live here. They think Anderson is the Red Wall. The condescending fools.
Johnson was a superficially engaging frontman, shoved out to burble his outlandish horseshit to an all too receptive audience desperate to buy what he was selling. Once they saw the reality of Johnson the man and Johnson’s terrible Brexit, he was done. That’s why the Tories got rid of him.
The idea that the British are too lazy to do the jobs should be consigned to the bin Oriental Lassitude went in. Remember that?
“Unexpected Coronation Star Penny Mordaunt Rocked One Of Summer 2023's Top Color Trends (Seriously, It's A Must-Try)”
Read More: https://www.glam.com/1278630/coronation-star-penny-mordaunt-rocked-top-summer-color-trend/
Faced with two possible outcomes, would you rather hold on to office with Boris, or go down to a narrow defeat with Rishi?
Edge case
In contrast, I remember watching The Graduate as a teenager in the early 70s and being rather perplexed that Ben Braddock would find Mrs Robinson attractive - she seemed really old to me. (Anne Bancroft was 35 when the film was shot.)
She is already 3rd fave behind Kemi and Boris (and the Tories are surely not mad enough to try Boris again; his time has come and it has gone)
If she had been wearing Naval uniform it would have been inappropriate, but she wasn't.
Walls Come Tumbling Down
We can't even be completely sure whether the return of the Truss is a good joke, or a prediction.
The Conservatives can go in one of two directions to make themselves electable at the next GE. By installing caring, one nation Conservative serial foodbank openers like Penny Mordaunt as PM or to promote the Conservative Party of 30p Lee Anderson ("if you don't like the Coronation, leave the country") in the corpulent shape of Johnson.
Even if the second option is enough to win the next GE, I suspect it dooms the party in the longer term.
Re The Graduate, it has an interesting UK ratings history reflecting changing attitudes: 1968 - X, 1970 - AA, 2007 - 15, 2017 - 12A, 2023 - 12.
At this rate it will be a U by 2030.
The housing market is a vampire that sucks all the surplus money out of the economy, makes everyone with a mortgage poorer with less disposable income, and redistributes wealth upwards towards the elderly who bought property for a song and are mortgage free.
House prices need to fall, but to do that we need to build an extra 500k homes a year, or get immigration under control. The government appears incapable of doing either.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/publicsectorpersonnel/timeseries/c9lg/pse
And if you're saying that all the 'brilliant' migrant workers have left doesn't that suggest that all the rubbish ones are still here ?
Like most Christian ceremonies (probably most religious ceremonies) it was endless repetition that God is Great and very little to do with the ostensible reason for the event. After about the 5th time we're reminded to praise God it's hard to escape the idea that the Lord is really insecure.
The sense I got from the results this week plus polling on Johnson before he left was that the party - and Johnson - have been fairly universally unpopular across the board for a while. He had lost the trust of his former Brexit heartlands by spring 2022.
The red wall swung more than blue wall this time largely because the blue wall did disproportionately badly for the Tories in May 2019. So things are just equalising as the Brexit gap unwinds.
Sunak is just marginally less unpopular than Boris, who in turn was marginally less unpopular than Truss. But I’m not sure we’d see a huge Brexit-led difference in vote patterns between them these days.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/series/the-heat-or-eat-diaries
I’ve not seen actual evidence of the true or falsity of this assertion.
So dont beat about the bush.... Name and Shame!
(My guess is HYUFD Sandpit and Big G)
Now, like you, I still dress pretty much like I did in the 90s and I’m in my mid-40s. Doesn’t seem so incongruous now. My dad’s 70 and wears jeans, t-shirts and trainers. At that age his dad was wearing beige slacks and a tie.
But the key thing is that most of us don't notice how harmfully high house prices are, or how much national prosperity they have sucked out of anything productive. It's often invisible.
And two examples of the power of the invisible over the material seem like as good a cue as any to tootle off to church. Laters.
“Well that was all underwhelming - I didn’t watch a minute if it - that was a total wash out - I only saw one boring glimpse - it was all so boring and religious - I didn’t see any of it - why did Charles look so sad and miserable - I’m glad I skipped the entire thing”
And so on, ad nauseam, through the day
But there was a flip side risk that it could have been worse and even if not he was too big a problem - because of his endless scandals which would only have continued because the man is not able to change.