The Liberal Democrats with over 400 gains and many councils, some of which they have never held before. This is way, way above expectations.
The Tories being cuffed across the board, 1000 losses from a horribly low base is very bad. Greens doing well, despite losing Brighton. Labour pretty solid but not altogether convincing.
Game On.
Not a horribly low base at all. Before this election, the tories had more councillors than Labour, even after 13 years in power. Compare with 1996, when labour had more than twice as many councillors as the tories.
Ahem. You need to compare like-with-like.
1996 was metropolitan boroughs, as well as a smattering (one third of seats) in district councils.
I was referring to the total number of councillors in office, not the change... which is what I assume Cicero meant by 'base'.
Fair enough.
But it is worth noting that in last year's locals, Labour won more than twice as many councillors as the Conservatives (3,073 vs 1,403).
The overall number of Conservative councillors is bolstered by the great 2021 they had. If you just look at the latest two cycles, then while not 1996 levels, it's way better for Labour than 1991.
The Conservatives have likely won about 30% of the seats being contested, this time, compared to 33% in 1991, and 17% in 1995.
Labour won 22% of the seats in 2007, and 20% in 2009, although Labour in government seems to do worse in local elections than the Conservatives do.
It would be interesting to compare this year's local elections with 1995. You'd probably find the Tories have done worse in upmarket areas this year but slightly better in downmarket ones. Walsall and Dudley for example.
I was the expecting the former but not the latter.
Last week the Tories set expectations management at 1,000 seats lost which meant they were expecting 600-700 losses.
I expect a leadership challenge this year now.
They can have a leadership challenge. But not sure what that achieves - it’ll just ramp up pressure to call a general election
There won’t be a challenge until polling shows another Conservative MP getting noticeably more votes as potential leader than Sunak.
There is no such person, at the moment.
Exactly the Tories are heading for defeat as much as Labour was in 2010 or the Tories were in 1997 (if fractionally less). Changing the leader and PM AGAIN will make sod all difference, indeed if anything Rishi polls slightly better than his party.
Better to just face the music and then rebuild under a new leader in Opposition
Greg Hands has sent such a tone deaf email that has annoyed me and others.
I got that.
It really really pissed me off.
"Dear Party Member
I know you are disappointed by today's results, but everything is going fine so just stop grumbling ok?"
…And give us a load of dosh.
"I want to be totally honest...
This is a massive wake-up call (as if we didn't already know there was a big challenge anyway, and members had been working hard to help) and please give us a load of extra dosh."
No contrition. No apology. No period of reflection. Just what work and money they can get off their troopers, who they expect to drone for them regardless and be damned grateful for it.
“Labour is calling it “a clear rejection of a prime minister who never had a mandate to begin with””
A fair point. I know the tories will argue the constitutional point until the cows come home. “But, Gordon Brown!” etc etc.
But to the general public, given the personalised/presidentialised way election campaigns have been fought in recent years, it’s a fair point, isn’t it?
It’s not just in the eyes of labour. In the eyes of many ordinary voters, Sunak doesn’t have a mandate to govern.
I don't think it is a fair point at all. The underlying assumption is basically that if you lose some local elections your 'mandate' as PM is rejected too. Yet we know parties have lost locals and gone on to win under the same leader. So it would be a poor way of judging mandate.
Am I to believe that if Boris had been in office and this result happened that Labour would not be making the same argument, only tweaked to say he had lost his mandate, rather than never had one? Of course they would.
So that's at least one person not a Tory arguing the constitutional point. 'In the eyes of many ordinary voters' is just a nonsense anyway - people have argued a party which just won a majority don't have a mandate as well, the word is clearly meaningless. What does it even mean in this context? That he should quit because he has no mandate to do anything? Call an election? Well blow me down oppositions call for elections when they think they will win them and governments resist them when they think the same.
We do have more personalised election campaigns but we simply don't have presidents, there is no reason to 'renew' a mandate. And yeah, I know VPs are on the ballot as well but presidential campaigns are much more personalised, so if a VP took over would they really have a mandate? Come on.
There was no obligation upon Gordon Brown to resign after the local election results on his watch.
It would be interesting to compare this year's local elections with 1995. You'd probably find the Tories have done worse in upmarket areas this year but slightly better in downmarket ones. Walsall and Dudley for example.
The Conservatives did (far) worse almost everywhere in 1995. Take Hertsmere, 8 seats out of 39, compared to 16 now. The Conservatives held 8 councils, compared to 30 something this time around.
I was the expecting the former but not the latter.
Last week the Tories set expectations management at 1,000 seats lost which meant they were expecting 600-700 losses.
I expect a leadership challenge this year now.
They can have a leadership challenge. But not sure what that achieves - it’ll just ramp up pressure to call a general election
There won’t be a challenge until polling shows another Conservative MP getting noticeably more votes as potential leader than Sunak.
There is no such person, at the moment.
Exactly the Tories are heading for defeat as much as Labour was in 2010 or the Tories were in 1997 (if fractionally less). Changing the leader and PM AGAIN will make sod all difference, indeed if anything Rishi polls slightly better than his party.
Better to just face the music and then rebuild under a new leader in Opposition
Yes, but you and your fellow nutters need to swallow your delusions and pick a sensible one. Or you’ll be retired before you see another Tory government again.
I was the expecting the former but not the latter.
Last week the Tories set expectations management at 1,000 seats lost which meant they were expecting 600-700 losses.
I expect a leadership challenge this year now.
From whom, and on what prospectus?
Johnson and Trussites.
Former will say I can and have won general elections, get rid of the homunculus PM.
If Boris wants it, it’s his, isn’t it?
So long as he makes the final two then yes. The members still love him.
I may be wrong, but I am sure the public are less enthusiastic. I certainly hope they are. Sunak is one thing, but that monstrous t*** is quite another.
OT. I read on here about a focus group of seven swing voters from three swing constituencies run by a company called JL Partners. The finding was that Keir Starmer was hopeless. The whole exercise was worthless. You'd have got more illuminating findings if you'd questioned your grandmother with cognitive issues. Nonetheless It received quite a lot of publicity.
What I didn't know is that JL Partners are employed by the Tory Party and James Johnson who runs it was previously Theresa May's personal pollster.
I've just seen him on Ch4 News explaining how Labour's lead of 7% was a poor result. 'No better than Ed Milliband's in 2012'. It's quite reasonable to have guests speaking for whichever party they work for but surely not posing as 'The Pollster's JL Partners.....' without explaining that their job is not to illuminate but to spin
Not sure it makes strategic, tactical OR horse sense, for Conservatives to turn Rishi Sunak into their Fifth Stooge (aka Five Failed PMs) then flail about in search of Stooge #6.
Agreed. The Conservatives are not (bar a Black Swan) going to win. But, they should aim for a Labour 2010 result, rather than a 1997 result. Sunak is their best hope of the former.
Agreed, but there will be sniping all the way now from those who are too weak/shit to do better but enough to undermine him and the brand over the next 18 months.
Like the scorpion they won't be able to help themselves.
Far too many people on the right treat politics as a pissing contest. I've reached the conclusion, they don't actually wish to achieve the things they profess to believe in, merely to preen and posture, and complain.
A basket of stocks selected by ChatGPT, a chatbot powered by artificial intelligence (AI), has far outperformed some of the most popular investment funds in the United Kingdom.
Between March 6 and April 28, a dummy portfolio of 38 stocks gained 4.9% while 10 leading investment funds clocked an average loss of 0.8%, according to an experiment conducted by financial comparison site finder.com.
How did it do to the other alternative approach of throwing darts at the stocks page of the FT and then buying whatever the darts hit? That is also reputed to outperform investment gurus
As we get to the end of results, its pretty clear that this has been an absolute kicking for the Tories. Up and down the country, red wall, blue wall, remain, leave - they've been brutalised.
In any result there will be stuff that bucks the trend, so people really need to stop flagging those crumbs as being proof that the cake hasn't been eaten - it has.
What will really put the fear of God into them will be the levels of tactical voting. Labour, LibDem, Green, Independent - if it can defeat the Tory that is who gets the vote. Replicate anything like that at a GE and it isn't a -20 majority for Labour, its Thatcher 79 at least.
I was the expecting the former but not the latter.
Last week the Tories set expectations management at 1,000 seats lost which meant they were expecting 600-700 losses.
I expect a leadership challenge this year now.
They can have a leadership challenge. But not sure what that achieves - it’ll just ramp up pressure to call a general election
There won’t be a challenge until polling shows another Conservative MP getting noticeably more votes as potential leader than Sunak.
There is no such person, at the moment.
Exactly the Tories are heading for defeat as much as Labour was in 2010 or the Tories were in 1997 (if fractionally less). Changing the leader and PM AGAIN will make sod all difference, indeed if anything Rishi polls slightly better than his party.
Better to just face the music and then rebuild under a new leader in Opposition
Agreed
I don't want LAB to win and won't be voting for them but we could do worse than ending up with say 260 seats, rebuild and rediscover our focus and direction, and hopefully come back at the following GE.
I was the expecting the former but not the latter.
Last week the Tories set expectations management at 1,000 seats lost which meant they were expecting 600-700 losses.
I expect a leadership challenge this year now.
From whom, and on what prospectus?
Johnson and Trussites.
Former will say I can and have won general elections, get rid of the homunculus PM.
Do you think Johnson and the Trussites could form a pact? Johnson as the leader delivering Trussite supply-side reforms.
I think he wanted to do that anyway. In the 'last days' of his administration when he appointed Zahawi he spoke of looking forward to going for 'economic growth' with a new Chancellor - he knew fine well what Sunak and the Treasury's agenda was doing to the economy.
His Chancellor operated his agenda. I don't buy this weird fiction PMs have of blaming their chancellors as though they cannot see and do anything about it happening.
Certainly he spotted the need to try something different toward the end, which shows his flexibility and willingness to try a different approach so I can believe he wanted to do something Trussish, but he spent years unable to see or do anything about Sunak, an experienced MP with no experience of high office until Boris gave it to him? Pull the other one.
That's what I have always thought, but it isn't true. The Chancellor isn't just a normal cabinet member and the Treasury isn't a normal ministry. Even Thatcher's Chancellors ran rings around her to get into the ERM, shadowing the DM against her wishes - and she was far more of a dominant and exacting leader than Bojo.
Would Boris have done better? He might have. Many Tories will be convinced he would have.
In part they would probably be right. Part of the problem of the post Boris era was the party collapsing in on itself and wrecking its image and credibility, with the rapid turnover of PMs just making them look ridiculous. That reputation hit has probably resulted in larger losses than if there had been a smooth transition (though Boris's fans did everything they could to make it less smooth), and possibly even larger losses than if he had been left in place.
The problem with their analysis is they start from the position that all would have been fine had Boris been in charge because the national polling was better, and don't consider why MPs took the remarkable step of forcing him out. That is not something MPs do easily, and that they felt they had to do it, rightly or not, shows there were massive problems with Boris remaining in place, and it would be an error to assume that May 2023 would have been equivalent to previous years.
Particularly when one reason he was ousted was he just would not stop causing scandals and problems which the party had to constantly defend, and so the odds on there being no more of those happening had he remained in place are very low.
I think this is a fair analysis. What really did for the Tories is that instead of going straight to Rishi they went via the catastrophic cul de sac of Liz Truss. That really well and truly trashed the brand and makes a change of Govt inevitable. If the Tories have any sense they will stick with Rishi who at least looks like a grown-up. Any Boris-Truss pact would make the party an utter laughing stock followed by an extinction-level event at the election
I was the expecting the former but not the latter.
Last week the Tories set expectations management at 1,000 seats lost which meant they were expecting 600-700 losses.
I expect a leadership challenge this year now.
They can have a leadership challenge. But not sure what that achieves - it’ll just ramp up pressure to call a general election
There won’t be a challenge until polling shows another Conservative MP getting noticeably more votes as potential leader than Sunak.
There is no such person, at the moment.
Exactly the Tories are heading for defeat as much as Labour was in 2010 or the Tories were in 1997 (if fractionally less). Changing the leader and PM AGAIN will make sod all difference, indeed if anything Rishi polls slightly better than his party.
Better to just face the music and then rebuild under a new leader in Opposition
Agreed
I don't want LAB to win and won't be voting for them but we could do worse than ending up with say 260 seats, rebuild and rediscover our focus and direction, and hopefully come back at the following GE.
I was the expecting the former but not the latter.
Last week the Tories set expectations management at 1,000 seats lost which meant they were expecting 600-700 losses.
I expect a leadership challenge this year now.
They can have a leadership challenge. But not sure what that achieves - it’ll just ramp up pressure to call a general election
There won’t be a challenge until polling shows another Conservative MP getting noticeably more votes as potential leader than Sunak.
There is no such person, at the moment.
Exactly the Tories are heading for defeat as much as Labour was in 2010 or the Tories were in 1997 (if fractionally less). Changing the leader and PM AGAIN will make sod all difference, indeed if anything Rishi polls slightly better than his party.
Better to just face the music and then rebuild under a new leader in Opposition
Agreed
I don't want LAB to win and won't be voting for them but we could do worse than ending up with say 260 seats, rebuild and rediscover our focus and direction, and hopefully come back at the following GE.
Not sure it makes strategic, tactical OR horse sense, for Conservatives to turn Rishi Sunak into their Fifth Stooge (aka Five Failed PMs) then flail about in search of Stooge #6.
Agreed. The Conservatives are not (bar a Black Swan) going to win. But, they should aim for a Labour 2010 result, rather than a 1997 result. Sunak is their best hope of the former.
Agreed, but there will be sniping all the way now from those who are too weak/shit to do better but enough to undermine him and the brand over the next 18 months.
Like the scorpion they won't be able to help themselves.
Far too many people on the right treat politics as a pissing contest. I've reached the conclusion, they don't actually wish to achieve the things they profess to believe in, merely to preen and posture, and complain.
It would be interesting to compare this year's local elections with 1995. You'd probably find the Tories have done worse in upmarket areas this year but slightly better in downmarket ones. Walsall and Dudley for example.
The Conservatives did (far) worse almost everywhere in 1995. Take Hertsmere, 8 seats out of 39, compared to 16 now. The Conservatives held 8 councils, compared to 30 something this time around.
On the other hand, the Conservatives did far better in 1991.
So, expecting a result between 1992 and 1997 seems a reasonable bet
Would Boris have done better? He might have. Many Tories will be convinced he would have.
In part they would probably be right. Part of the problem of the post Boris era was the party collapsing in on itself and wrecking its image and credibility, with the rapid turnover of PMs just making them look ridiculous. That reputation hit has probably resulted in larger losses than if there had been a smooth transition (though Boris's fans did everything they could to make it less smooth), and possibly even larger losses than if he had been left in place.
The problem with their analysis is they start from the position that all would have been fine had Boris been in charge because the national polling was better, and don't consider why MPs took the remarkable step of forcing him out. That is not something MPs do easily, and that they felt they had to do it, rightly or not, shows there were massive problems with Boris remaining in place, and it would be an error to assume that May 2023 would have been equivalent to previous years.
Particularly when one reason he was ousted was he just would not stop causing scandals and problems which the party had to constantly defend, and so the odds on there being no more of those happening had he remained in place are very low.
I think this is a fair analysis. What really did for the Tories is that instead of going straight to Rishi they went via the catastrophic cul de sac of Liz Truss. That really well and truly trashed the brand and makes a change of Govt inevitable. If the Tories have any sense they will stick with Rishi who at least looks like a grown-up. Any Boris-Truss pact would make the party an utter laughing stock followed by an extinction-level event at the election
Besides, Truss at the Treasury... How long before the pound reaches parity with the Eurocent?
I was the expecting the former but not the latter.
Last week the Tories set expectations management at 1,000 seats lost which meant they were expecting 600-700 losses.
I expect a leadership challenge this year now.
They can have a leadership challenge. But not sure what that achieves - it’ll just ramp up pressure to call a general election
There won’t be a challenge until polling shows another Conservative MP getting noticeably more votes as potential leader than Sunak.
There is no such person, at the moment.
Exactly the Tories are heading for defeat as much as Labour was in 2010 or the Tories were in 1997 (if fractionally less). Changing the leader and PM AGAIN will make sod all difference, indeed if anything Rishi polls slightly better than his party.
Better to just face the music and then rebuild under a new leader in Opposition
It'll be fascinating and frightening in equal measure to see how much further to the Right the wounded and embittered remnants of the Conservative Party will drift should they lose.
My question for Londonpubman is, are you an actual publican somewhere in the Great Wen? Or just propping up the bar?
IF answer is the former, do you offer a psephologist's discount? Or at least allow us to run a tab!
Unfortunately I am simply the latter. Not at the moment but quite regularly 👍
I'm down in Somerset next week, looking forward to becoming DialupPubman!
Yes Somerset is good. Lots of good pubs there. Enjoy it 👍
Thanks mate, looking forward to getting a few days out of London, work has been rather full on of late so looking forward to the fresh air of the pub!
I rather like the pubs in CrapPlace on the IoW - have you been there?
To the IoW yes but not there. What beers have they got?
Many fine beers. I'm interested, do you have friends on PB?
I haven't met anyone on here in real life so I don't think I'd call them friends. I've got real life for that, this is more of an escape.
Wow. That's astonishing - have you not been to the PB clubhouse - you know there's free beer there?
I don't know what the PB clubhouse is I am afraid.
Ok, well that's fine. Anything you want to add before you die?
I once ran over a squirrel and drove off.
Goodbye Dialup, I hope it's been worth it.
I wasn't planning on going anywhere but not a problem, have a good life yourself.
So when you said you'd jump off a cliff it was a lie?
Can you all stop being so unpleasant towards each other and revert to doing what the rest of us good, upstanding PB’ers do - direct vitriol at the opposing party/leader.
It’s just as unpleasant, but at least it’s from a distance, directed at a party/person who has better things to do than fight back on some obscure blog.
Not sure it makes strategic, tactical OR horse sense, for Conservatives to turn Rishi Sunak into their Fifth Stooge (aka Five Failed PMs) then flail about in search of Stooge #6.
Agreed. The Conservatives are not (bar a Black Swan) going to win. But, they should aim for a Labour 2010 result, rather than a 1997 result. Sunak is their best hope of the former.
Agreed, but there will be sniping all the way now from those who are too weak/shit to do better but enough to undermine him and the brand over the next 18 months.
Like the scorpion they won't be able to help themselves.
Maybe it'll give him the bottle to choose his own Home Secretary not have one forced on him by the flapping white coats
I was the expecting the former but not the latter.
Last week the Tories set expectations management at 1,000 seats lost which meant they were expecting 600-700 losses.
I expect a leadership challenge this year now.
They can have a leadership challenge. But not sure what that achieves - it’ll just ramp up pressure to call a general election
There won’t be a challenge until polling shows another Conservative MP getting noticeably more votes as potential leader than Sunak.
There is no such person, at the moment.
Exactly the Tories are heading for defeat as much as Labour was in 2010 or the Tories were in 1997 (if fractionally less). Changing the leader and PM AGAIN will make sod all difference, indeed if anything Rishi polls slightly better than his party.
Better to just face the music and then rebuild under a new leader in Opposition
Agreed
I don't want LAB to win and won't be voting for them but we could do worse than ending up with say 260 seats, rebuild and rediscover our focus and direction, and hopefully come back at the following GE.
I don't think we'll be back for quite a long time.
I'm not convinced we worked out what we were really for last time, and we had 13 years of Labour to do it too.
Would Boris have done better? He might have. Many Tories will be convinced he would have.
In part they would probably be right. Part of the problem of the post Boris era was the party collapsing in on itself and wrecking its image and credibility, with the rapid turnover of PMs just making them look ridiculous. That reputation hit has probably resulted in larger losses than if there had been a smooth transition (though Boris's fans did everything they could to make it less smooth), and possibly even larger losses than if he had been left in place.
The problem with their analysis is they start from the position that all would have been fine had Boris been in charge because the national polling was better, and don't consider why MPs took the remarkable step of forcing him out. That is not something MPs do easily, and that they felt they had to do it, rightly or not, shows there were massive problems with Boris remaining in place, and it would be an error to assume that May 2023 would have been equivalent to previous years.
Particularly when one reason he was ousted was he just would not stop causing scandals and problems which the party had to constantly defend, and so the odds on there being no more of those happening had he remained in place are very low.
I think this is a fair analysis. What really did for the Tories is that instead of going straight to Rishi they went via the catastrophic cul de sac of Liz Truss. That really well and truly trashed the brand and makes a change of Govt inevitable. If the Tories have any sense they will stick with Rishi who at least looks like a grown-up. Any Boris-Truss pact would make the party an utter laughing stock followed by an extinction-level event at the election
How has 'looking like a grown up' (in your opinion - I think he looks like the office tea boy) helped him in this election. You really think Boris would have had a worse GOTV outcome yesterday than Sunak?
It’s an interesting thought experiment where the polls would be right now if Pincher hadn’t seen for Boris. No one gives a f about covid anymore, yesterdays news. He’d be riding high as the moral leader of Europe on the pressing issue of the day. I think he’s be squeaking another majority.
Would Boris have done better? He might have. Many Tories will be convinced he would have.
In part they would probably be right. Part of the problem of the post Boris era was the party collapsing in on itself and wrecking its image and credibility, with the rapid turnover of PMs just making them look ridiculous. That reputation hit has probably resulted in larger losses than if there had been a smooth transition (though Boris's fans did everything they could to make it less smooth), and possibly even larger losses than if he had been left in place.
The problem with their analysis is they start from the position that all would have been fine had Boris been in charge because the national polling was better, and don't consider why MPs took the remarkable step of forcing him out. That is not something MPs do easily, and that they felt they had to do it, rightly or not, shows there were massive problems with Boris remaining in place, and it would be an error to assume that May 2023 would have been equivalent to previous years.
Particularly when one reason he was ousted was he just would not stop causing scandals and problems which the party had to constantly defend, and so the odds on there being no more of those happening had he remained in place are very low.
I think this is a fair analysis. What really did for the Tories is that instead of going straight to Rishi they went via the catastrophic cul de sac of Liz Truss. That really well and truly trashed the brand and makes a change of Govt inevitable. If the Tories have any sense they will stick with Rishi who at least looks like a grown-up. Any Boris-Truss pact would make the party an utter laughing stock followed by an extinction-level event at the election
How has 'looking like a grown up' (in your opinion - I think he looks like the office tea boy) helped him in this election. You really think Boris would have had a worse GOTV outcome yesterday than Sunak?
Yes. Under Boris, it would have been 1995 all over again.
A basket of stocks selected by ChatGPT, a chatbot powered by artificial intelligence (AI), has far outperformed some of the most popular investment funds in the United Kingdom.
Between March 6 and April 28, a dummy portfolio of 38 stocks gained 4.9% while 10 leading investment funds clocked an average loss of 0.8%, according to an experiment conducted by financial comparison site finder.com.
OT. I read on here about a focus group of seven swing voters from three swing constituencies run by a company called JL Partners. The finding was that Keir Starmer was hopeless. The whole exercise was worthless. You'd have got more illuminating findings if you'd questioned your grandmother with cognitive issues. Nonetheless It received quite a lot of publicity.
What I didn't know is that JL Partners are employed by the Tory Party and James Johnson who runs it was previously Theresa May's personal pollster.
I've just seen him on Ch4 News explaining how Labour's lead of 7% was a poor result. 'No better than Ed Milliband's in 2012'. It's quite reasonable to have guests speaking for whichever party they work for but surely not posing as 'The Pollster's JL Partners.....' without explaining that their job is not to illuminate but to spin
Britain's answer to Trafalgar? (The "Pollster" not the Battle or Square.)
It’s an interesting thought experiment where the polls would be right now if Pincher hadn’t seen for Boris. No one gives a f about covid anymore, yesterdays news. He’d be riding high as the moral leader of Europe on the pressing issue of the day. I think he’s be squeaking another majority.
So you can now travel from Portsmouth to the Potteries without travelling through a majority Tory or majority Labour controlled council.
Browsing those NOC councils across the Shires of central and Southern England there are fewer blue seats than I can remember in modern times. The Tories have lost their former heartlands more convincingly than Labour did the Red Wall in 2019. It is not terribly obvious how they can win it back. Culture War hasn't done it.
It would be interesting to compare this year's local elections with 1995. You'd probably find the Tories have done worse in upmarket areas this year but slightly better in downmarket ones. Walsall and Dudley for example.
The Conservatives did (far) worse almost everywhere in 1995. Take Hertsmere, 8 seats out of 39, compared to 16 now. The Conservatives held 8 councils, compared to 30 something this time around.
On the other hand, the Conservatives did far better in 1991.
So, expecting a result between 1992 and 1997 seems a reasonable bet
Sound about right. The Conservatives had simply disappeared from urban England, by 1996, bar four London Councils. This is not the case now.
My question for Londonpubman is, are you an actual publican somewhere in the Great Wen? Or just propping up the bar?
IF answer is the former, do you offer a psephologist's discount? Or at least allow us to run a tab!
Unfortunately I am simply the latter. Not at the moment but quite regularly 👍
I'm down in Somerset next week, looking forward to becoming DialupPubman!
Yes Somerset is good. Lots of good pubs there. Enjoy it 👍
Thanks mate, looking forward to getting a few days out of London, work has been rather full on of late so looking forward to the fresh air of the pub!
I rather like the pubs in CrapPlace on the IoW - have you been there?
To the IoW yes but not there. What beers have they got?
Many fine beers. I'm interested, do you have friends on PB?
I haven't met anyone on here in real life so I don't think I'd call them friends. I've got real life for that, this is more of an escape.
Wow. That's astonishing - have you not been to the PB clubhouse - you know there's free beer there?
I don't know what the PB clubhouse is I am afraid.
Ok, well that's fine. Anything you want to add before you die?
I once ran over a squirrel and drove off.
Goodbye Dialup, I hope it's been worth it.
I wasn't planning on going anywhere but not a problem, have a good life yourself.
So when you said you'd jump off a cliff it was a lie?
Can you all stop being so unpleasant towards each other and revert to doing what the rest of us good, upstanding PB’ers do - direct vitriol at the opposing party/leader.
It’s just as unpleasant, but at least it’s from a distance, directed at a party/person who has better things to do than fight back on some obscure blog.
Ta.
Actually Dialup hasn't been even in the slightest way unpleasant to me. Completely blameless. I had thought that Dialup was just an AI response, and early exchanges seemed to confirm that. However I'm not so sure now, and if I was was wrong then I apologise wholeheartedly.
Not sure it makes strategic, tactical OR horse sense, for Conservatives to turn Rishi Sunak into their Fifth Stooge (aka Five Failed PMs) then flail about in search of Stooge #6.
Agreed. The Conservatives are not (bar a Black Swan) going to win. But, they should aim for a Labour 2010 result, rather than a 1997 result. Sunak is their best hope of the former.
Agreed, but there will be sniping all the way now from those who are too weak/shit to do better but enough to undermine him and the brand over the next 18 months.
Like the scorpion they won't be able to help themselves.
Far too many people on the right treat politics as a pissing contest. I've reached the conclusion, they don't actually wish to achieve the things they profess to believe in, merely to preen and posture, and complain.
So you can now travel from Portsmouth to the Potteries without travelling through a majority Tory or majority Labour controlled council.
Browsing those NOC councils across the Shires of central and Southern England there are fewer blue seats than I can remember in modern times. The Tories have lost their former heartlands more convincingly than Labour did the Red Wall in 2019. It is not terribly obvious how they can win it back. Culture War hasn't done it.
Going into opposition will do it. In 1999, and 2003, the Conservatives regained hundreds of seats, and in 2007, they swept the board. There was a lot more orange on the local government map of the UK in the mid 90's and early noughties than there is today.
Not sure it makes strategic, tactical OR horse sense, for Conservatives to turn Rishi Sunak into their Fifth Stooge (aka Five Failed PMs) then flail about in search of Stooge #6.
Agreed. The Conservatives are not (bar a Black Swan) going to win. But, they should aim for a Labour 2010 result, rather than a 1997 result. Sunak is their best hope of the former.
Agreed, but there will be sniping all the way now from those who are too weak/shit to do better but enough to undermine him and the brand over the next 18 months.
Like the scorpion they won't be able to help themselves.
Far too many people on the right treat politics as a pissing contest. I've reached the conclusion, they don't actually wish to achieve the things they profess to believe in, merely to preen and posture, and complain.
And NOT just on the right.
That's always been true of much of the Left. But, the Right are meant to be the realists. That's certainly not true now.
I was the expecting the former but not the latter.
Last week the Tories set expectations management at 1,000 seats lost which meant they were expecting 600-700 losses.
I expect a leadership challenge this year now.
They can have a leadership challenge. But not sure what that achieves - it’ll just ramp up pressure to call a general election
There won’t be a challenge until polling shows another Conservative MP getting noticeably more votes as potential leader than Sunak.
There is no such person, at the moment.
Exactly the Tories are heading for defeat as much as Labour was in 2010 or the Tories were in 1997 (if fractionally less). Changing the leader and PM AGAIN will make sod all difference, indeed if anything Rishi polls slightly better than his party.
Better to just face the music and then rebuild under a new leader in Opposition
It'll be fascinating and frightening in equal measure to see how much further to the Right the wounded and embittered remnants of the Conservative Party will drift should they lose.
It would be lush to have a credible right wing party to vote for. I don’t ask for much, just arresting the crazy rise in the fiscal transfer from the working to the non working, and reducing the size of the state and immigration from what are more or less all time highs. If they have time perhaps they’d like to invest a bit more in defence and economic strategic resilience (ENERGY), given the uncomfortably high prospects of the West entering a trade war or even hot war with China this decade.
Forget mere voting, I’d go and campaign for that Party. As it is, I shall remain apathetic about the shades of socialist blancmange on offer to voters
It’s an interesting thought experiment where the polls would be right now if Pincher hadn’t seen for Boris. No one gives a f about covid anymore, yesterdays news. He’d be riding high as the moral leader of Europe on the pressing issue of the day. I think he’s be squeaking another majority.
LOL!
You’ve always had BDS and been unable to fathom why he was popular. But he was popular. And I expect by now would have been again.
I was the expecting the former but not the latter.
Last week the Tories set expectations management at 1,000 seats lost which meant they were expecting 600-700 losses.
I expect a leadership challenge this year now.
They can have a leadership challenge. But not sure what that achieves - it’ll just ramp up pressure to call a general election
There won’t be a challenge until polling shows another Conservative MP getting noticeably more votes as potential leader than Sunak.
There is no such person, at the moment.
Exactly the Tories are heading for defeat as much as Labour was in 2010 or the Tories were in 1997 (if fractionally less). Changing the leader and PM AGAIN will make sod all difference, indeed if anything Rishi polls slightly better than his party.
Better to just face the music and then rebuild under a new leader in Opposition
Agreed
I don't want LAB to win and won't be voting for them but we could do worse than ending up with say 260 seats, rebuild and rediscover our focus and direction, and hopefully come back at the following GE.
I don't think we'll be back for quite a long time.
I'm not convinced we worked out what we were really for last time, and we had 13 years of Labour to do it too.
The Conservative Party exists for the purposes of funnelling what's left of the nation's wealth upwards and into the pockets of the already well-off.
There are still a lot of well-off people about - thus, the Conservative Party is a very long way from being a lost cause. Yes, the most likely outcome of the next election is that the Tories will end up in Opposition, but they'll be able to entertain realistic ambitions of a return to Government at the first attempt.
Labour is terrified of taxing the assets of the wealthy, and without the extra money it can't do anything useful to help the poor, and risks being written off as pointless and useless by everyone.
I was the expecting the former but not the latter.
Last week the Tories set expectations management at 1,000 seats lost which meant they were expecting 600-700 losses.
I expect a leadership challenge this year now.
They can have a leadership challenge. But not sure what that achieves - it’ll just ramp up pressure to call a general election
There won’t be a challenge until polling shows another Conservative MP getting noticeably more votes as potential leader than Sunak.
There is no such person, at the moment.
Exactly the Tories are heading for defeat as much as Labour was in 2010 or the Tories were in 1997 (if fractionally less). Changing the leader and PM AGAIN will make sod all difference, indeed if anything Rishi polls slightly better than his party.
Better to just face the music and then rebuild under a new leader in Opposition
It'll be fascinating and frightening in equal measure to see how much further to the Right the wounded and embittered remnants of the Conservative Party will drift should they lose.
It would be lush to have a credible right wing party to vote for. I don’t ask for much, just arresting the crazy rise in the fiscal transfer from the working to the non working, and reducing the size of the state and immigration from what are more or less all time highs. If they have time perhaps they’d like to invest a bit more in defence and economic strategic resilience (ENERGY), given the uncomfortably high prospects of the West entering a trade war or even hot war with China this decade.
Forget mere voting, I’d go and campaign for that Party. As it is, I shall remain apathetic about the shades of socialist blancmange on offer to voters
The big dilemma for the next Tory leader (in opposition) will be whether to ditch the 2010-22 client vote. It’s the quickest way back to power, but entails thoroughly detoxifying the brand and, presumably, completely switching out the membership, opening up to £3ers, or by whatever other mechanism. It’s a bloody hard task, unlikely to work, but that’s what needs to be done.
Cameron and Osborne were never particularly morally or ideologically attached to their economically inactive client vote, but found them electorally necessary and intellectually challenged enough to be pliable.
Early, but I am answering a question posed by Gardenwalker a day or so ago: Yes, there will be live coverage of the coronation in the US. Here on the West Coast, it will start at about 2 in the morning. (So, most likely at midnight in Hawaii and the Aleutians.) https://www.tvpassport.com/tv-listings/stations/abc-komo-seattle-wa/181
I was the expecting the former but not the latter.
Last week the Tories set expectations management at 1,000 seats lost which meant they were expecting 600-700 losses.
I expect a leadership challenge this year now.
They can have a leadership challenge. But not sure what that achieves - it’ll just ramp up pressure to call a general election
There won’t be a challenge until polling shows another Conservative MP getting noticeably more votes as potential leader than Sunak.
There is no such person, at the moment.
Exactly the Tories are heading for defeat as much as Labour was in 2010 or the Tories were in 1997 (if fractionally less). Changing the leader and PM AGAIN will make sod all difference, indeed if anything Rishi polls slightly better than his party.
Better to just face the music and then rebuild under a new leader in Opposition
Agreed
I don't want LAB to win and won't be voting for them but we could do worse than ending up with say 260 seats, rebuild and rediscover our focus and direction, and hopefully come back at the following GE.
I don't think we'll be back for quite a long time.
I'm not convinced we worked out what we were really for last time, and we had 13 years of Labour to do it too.
The Conservative Party exists for the purposes of funnelling what's left of the nation's wealth upwards and into the pockets of the already well-off.
There are still a lot of well-off people about - thus, the Conservative Party is a very long way from being a lost cause. Yes, the most likely outcome of the next election is that the Tories will end up in Opposition, but they'll be able to entertain realistic ambitions of a return to Government at the first attempt.
Labour is terrified of taxing the assets of the wealthy, and without the extra money it can't do anything useful to help the poor, and risks being written off as pointless and useless by everyone.
Err, no. That's a silly caricature like abolishing the NHS, or furthering the old boy network.
It's more they didn't really know how to respond to the defeats of New Labour and the 1990s so decided to adopt its social policy and then small-state austerity whilst protecting pensioners. All tactical, defensive and nervous stuff - and no real bold leadership - and it was never really that popular. Other wings kept fighting their corner too, and that's all run through the mill that whole time over the last 13 years.
It's not hard: it's patriotism and economic prosperity, with a hard dose of pragmatism on top, so those core principles can adapt to changing circumstance. But, they seem to forget that and have cleaved to or stolen dogmas in precisely the wrong proportions as a substitute for hard thinking and leadership.
I was the expecting the former but not the latter.
Last week the Tories set expectations management at 1,000 seats lost which meant they were expecting 600-700 losses.
I expect a leadership challenge this year now.
They can have a leadership challenge. But not sure what that achieves - it’ll just ramp up pressure to call a general election
There won’t be a challenge until polling shows another Conservative MP getting noticeably more votes as potential leader than Sunak.
There is no such person, at the moment.
Exactly the Tories are heading for defeat as much as Labour was in 2010 or the Tories were in 1997 (if fractionally less). Changing the leader and PM AGAIN will make sod all difference, indeed if anything Rishi polls slightly better than his party.
Better to just face the music and then rebuild under a new leader in Opposition
Agreed
I don't want LAB to win and won't be voting for them but we could do worse than ending up with say 260 seats, rebuild and rediscover our focus and direction, and hopefully come back at the following GE.
I don't think we'll be back for quite a long time.
I'm not convinced we worked out what we were really for last time, and we had 13 years of Labour to do it too.
The Conservative Party exists for the purposes of funnelling what's left of the nation's wealth upwards and into the pockets of the already well-off.
There are still a lot of well-off people about - thus, the Conservative Party is a very long way from being a lost cause. Yes, the most likely outcome of the next election is that the Tories will end up in Opposition, but they'll be able to entertain realistic ambitions of a return to Government at the first attempt.
Labour is terrified of taxing the assets of the wealthy, and without the extra money it can't do anything useful to help the poor, and risks being written off as pointless and useless by everyone.
Err, no. That's a silly caricature like abolishing the NHS, or furthering the old boy network.
It's more they didn't really know how to respond to the defeats of New Labour and the 1990s so decided to adopt its social policy and then small-state austerity whilst protecting pensioners with a big state. All tactical, defensive and nervous stuff - and no real bold leadership. Other wings kept fighting their corner too, and it's run through the mill that whole time.
It's not hard: it's patriotism and economic prosperity, with a hard dose of pragmatism on top. But, they seem to forget that and have cleaved or stolen the wrong dogmas as a subs
I think @NickPalmer has been re-elected in Godalming. He's back with an LD and a Green - the Waverley result has the LDs on 22, the Farnham Residents on 13 and the Conservatives down eight to just ten seats.
I was the expecting the former but not the latter.
Last week the Tories set expectations management at 1,000 seats lost which meant they were expecting 600-700 losses.
I expect a leadership challenge this year now.
They can have a leadership challenge. But not sure what that achieves - it’ll just ramp up pressure to call a general election
There won’t be a challenge until polling shows another Conservative MP getting noticeably more votes as potential leader than Sunak.
There is no such person, at the moment.
Exactly the Tories are heading for defeat as much as Labour was in 2010 or the Tories were in 1997 (if fractionally less). Changing the leader and PM AGAIN will make sod all difference, indeed if anything Rishi polls slightly better than his party.
Better to just face the music and then rebuild under a new leader in Opposition
It'll be fascinating and frightening in equal measure to see how much further to the Right the wounded and embittered remnants of the Conservative Party will drift should they lose.
It would be lush to have a credible right wing party to vote for. I don’t ask for much, just arresting the crazy rise in the fiscal transfer from the working to the non working, and reducing the size of the state and immigration from what are more or less all time highs. If they have time perhaps they’d like to invest a bit more in defence and economic strategic resilience (ENERGY), given the uncomfortably high prospects of the West entering a trade war or even hot war with China this decade.
Forget mere voting, I’d go and campaign for that Party. As it is, I shall remain apathetic about the shades of socialist blancmange on offer to voters
It often puzzles me why (somewhat locally) the SCons don't rebrand themselves as a more 1950's patriarchal, bank-manager-friendly, small-business-friendly, 'small c' version of themselves. They'd mop up a decent chunk of the vote I think.
But then I remember they are utterly useless and it becomes self-explanatory.
I think @NickPalmer has been re-elected in Godalming. He's back with an LD and a Green - the Waverley result has the LDs on 22, the Farnham Residents on 13 and the Conservatives down eight to just ten seats.
I was the expecting the former but not the latter.
Last week the Tories set expectations management at 1,000 seats lost which meant they were expecting 600-700 losses.
I expect a leadership challenge this year now.
They can have a leadership challenge. But not sure what that achieves - it’ll just ramp up pressure to call a general election
There won’t be a challenge until polling shows another Conservative MP getting noticeably more votes as potential leader than Sunak.
There is no such person, at the moment.
Exactly the Tories are heading for defeat as much as Labour was in 2010 or the Tories were in 1997 (if fractionally less). Changing the leader and PM AGAIN will make sod all difference, indeed if anything Rishi polls slightly better than his party.
Better to just face the music and then rebuild under a new leader in Opposition
It'll be fascinating and frightening in equal measure to see how much further to the Right the wounded and embittered remnants of the Conservative Party will drift should they lose.
It would be lush to have a credible right wing party to vote for. I don’t ask for much, just arresting the crazy rise in the fiscal transfer from the working to the non working, and reducing the size of the state and immigration from what are more or less all time highs. If they have time perhaps they’d like to invest a bit more in defence and economic strategic resilience (ENERGY), given the uncomfortably high prospects of the West entering a trade war or even hot war with China this decade.
Forget mere voting, I’d go and campaign for that Party. As it is, I shall remain apathetic about the shades of socialist blancmange on offer to voters
Oh I'm talking strictly about the performative Right here - hanging, flogging, yoking the unemployed to carts and making them pull them round the streets, mass military conscription, outlawing protest and having the conscripts shoot any remaining demonstrators in cold blood, that sort of thing.
Economic liberalism is dead: the hordes of dependent elderly guarantee that. You can't have a small state when they all need looking after, you can't stop massive wealth transfers from the working to the non-working when they won't accept having their assets taxed, and you can't cut immigration when your economy invests in pensioners and property rather than productivity, and pumping it full of cheap labour is therefore your last roll of the dice at propping up GDP.
Britain is essentially being turned into a massive care home with a small, clapped out, impoverished state tacked to the side of it. That's not going to change, is it?
I was the expecting the former but not the latter.
Last week the Tories set expectations management at 1,000 seats lost which meant they were expecting 600-700 losses.
I expect a leadership challenge this year now.
They can have a leadership challenge. But not sure what that achieves - it’ll just ramp up pressure to call a general election
There won’t be a challenge until polling shows another Conservative MP getting noticeably more votes as potential leader than Sunak.
There is no such person, at the moment.
Exactly the Tories are heading for defeat as much as Labour was in 2010 or the Tories were in 1997 (if fractionally less). Changing the leader and PM AGAIN will make sod all difference, indeed if anything Rishi polls slightly better than his party.
Better to just face the music and then rebuild under a new leader in Opposition
It'll be fascinating and frightening in equal measure to see how much further to the Right the wounded and embittered remnants of the Conservative Party will drift should they lose.
It would be lush to have a credible right wing party to vote for. I don’t ask for much, just arresting the crazy rise in the fiscal transfer from the working to the non working, and reducing the size of the state and immigration from what are more or less all time highs. If they have time perhaps they’d like to invest a bit more in defence and economic strategic resilience (ENERGY), given the uncomfortably high prospects of the West entering a trade war or even hot war with China this decade.
Forget mere voting, I’d go and campaign for that Party. As it is, I shall remain apathetic about the shades of socialist blancmange on offer to voters
It often puzzles me why (somewhat locally) the SCons don't rebrand themselves as a more 1950's patriarchal, bank-manager-friendly, small-business-friendly, 'small c' version of themselves. They'd mop up a decent chunk of the vote I think.
But then I remember they are utterly useless and it becomes self-explanatory.
I think they rather lost any claim to bank-managerial prudence when claiming we should subordinate ourselves to Mr Johnson, Ms. Truss, etc. as per voted for by rUk but not us Scots.
I suppose also going all out for the Rangers fans - the Queen's XI stuff - was seen as too peripheral.
Paul Sidney RIVERS Liberal Democrats 1377 21.1% Elected Stephen Edward Dalton WILLIAMS Green Party Candidate 1280 19.6% Elected Nick PALMER Labour Party 1061 16.3% Elected ...................................................................................................................................................... Steve COSSER The Conservative Party Candidate 984 15.1% Not elected Ed HOLLIDAY The Conservative Party Candidate 954 14.6% Not elected Daniel Ali HUSSEINI The Conservative Party Candidate 860 13.2% Not elected
I was the expecting the former but not the latter.
Last week the Tories set expectations management at 1,000 seats lost which meant they were expecting 600-700 losses.
I expect a leadership challenge this year now.
They can have a leadership challenge. But not sure what that achieves - it’ll just ramp up pressure to call a general election
There won’t be a challenge until polling shows another Conservative MP getting noticeably more votes as potential leader than Sunak.
There is no such person, at the moment.
Exactly the Tories are heading for defeat as much as Labour was in 2010 or the Tories were in 1997 (if fractionally less). Changing the leader and PM AGAIN will make sod all difference, indeed if anything Rishi polls slightly better than his party.
Better to just face the music and then rebuild under a new leader in Opposition
Agreed
I don't want LAB to win and won't be voting for them but we could do worse than ending up with say 260 seats, rebuild and rediscover our focus and direction, and hopefully come back at the following GE.
I don't think we'll be back for quite a long time.
I'm not convinced we worked out what we were really for last time, and we had 13 years of Labour to do it too.
The Conservative Party exists for the purposes of funnelling what's left of the nation's wealth upwards and into the pockets of the already well-off.
There are still a lot of well-off people about - thus, the Conservative Party is a very long way from being a lost cause. Yes, the most likely outcome of the next election is that the Tories will end up in Opposition, but they'll be able to entertain realistic ambitions of a return to Government at the first attempt.
Labour is terrified of taxing the assets of the wealthy, and without the extra money it can't do anything useful to help the poor, and risks being written off as pointless and useless by everyone.
Err, no. That's a silly caricature like abolishing the NHS, or furthering the old boy network.
It's more they didn't really know how to respond to the defeats of New Labour and the 1990s so decided to adopt its social policy and then small-state austerity whilst protecting pensioners with a big state. All tactical, defensive and nervous stuff - and no real bold leadership. Other wings kept fighting their corner too, and it's run through the mill that whole time.
It's not hard: it's patriotism and economic prosperity, with a hard dose of pragmatism on top. But, they seem to forget that and have cleaved or stolen the wrong dogmas as a subs
Greg Hands has sent such a tone deaf email that has annoyed me and others.
Are we allowed to know the contents?
"FIRSTNAME,
I know the results are disappointing. I know people are worried about what Labour councils will mean for their local communities.
But I want to be totally honest with you, FIRSTNAME.
These local elections are a massive wake-up call. If you want to stop Keir Starmer, then we have to come together now.
We don’t have any time to waste. So I’m urgently asking you to chip in whatever you can today.
For too many people, the local election results mean they’re faced with Labour councillors who want to raise tax and cut local services.
It’s disappointing in so many ways.
But that’s exactly why I don’t want to see the same thing happen at next year’s general election.
I don’t want to see Keir Starmer reopen Brexit.
I don’t want to see Angela Rayner enthusiastically give in to every union demand.
I don’t want to see David Lammy with the power to keep foreign criminals in the country.
FIRSTNAME, I don’t want the same people who tried to make Jeremy Corbyn Prime Minister deciding what Britain’s future should look like.
If you don’t want to see that either, then I’m asking you to make an urgent donation today."
DONATE HERE button
HAHAHAHA!!! That actually reads like a scam email lol... 😂
Exactly. It's infuriated just about everyone.
How up his own arsehole does Greg Hands have to be to sign-off that email?
Did he in fact even read it?
Quite possibly not. Didn't an unappealing appeal go out with Suella B's name on it which she denied was anything to do with her?
The downside of professional political operatives being so specialised these days. If an MP has someone to write their emails, tap up donors, write thinktank pieces... what is the politician actually for? An appealing figurehead? We have a monarchy for that.
Of the 11 District and Borough Councils within Surrey, the Liberal Democrats have majority control of four - Guildford, Mole Valley, Surrey Heath and Woking.
Six - Runnymede, Spelthorne, Epsom & Ewell, Elmbridge, Waverley and Tandridge are NOC leaving Reigate & Banstead as the only council within Surrey (apart from the County Council) still under majority Conservative control.
Early, but I am answering a question posed by Gardenwalker a day or so ago: Yes, there will be live coverage of the coronation in the US. Here on the West Coast, it will start at about 2 in the morning. (So, most likely at midnight in Hawaii and the Aleutians.) https://www.tvpassport.com/tv-listings/stations/abc-komo-seattle-wa/181
(Do I plan to watch any of it? No. But I hope those who do watch, will enjoy the ceremony, and even learn something from it.)
I am hardly a royalist, but will endeavor to go to bed early and get up even earlier to watch this coronation.
In part because my own sainted mother, an was an avid Royal watcher. Saw young Chuck get infested (sp?) as Prince of Wales on TV in her company, so think it's least I can do is see him make it into the Big Chair, complete with Crown, Orb, Sceptre & Robe.
Paul Sidney RIVERS Liberal Democrats 1377 21.1% Elected Stephen Edward Dalton WILLIAMS Green Party Candidate 1280 19.6% Elected Nick PALMER Labour Party 1061 16.3% Elected ...................................................................................................................................................... Steve COSSER The Conservative Party Candidate 984 15.1% Not elected Ed HOLLIDAY The Conservative Party Candidate 954 14.6% Not elected Daniel Ali HUSSEINI The Conservative Party Candidate 860 13.2% Not elected
A basket of stocks selected by ChatGPT, a chatbot powered by artificial intelligence (AI), has far outperformed some of the most popular investment funds in the United Kingdom.
Between March 6 and April 28, a dummy portfolio of 38 stocks gained 4.9% while 10 leading investment funds clocked an average loss of 0.8%, according to an experiment conducted by financial comparison site finder.com.
I’d still like to know what the electoral impact of voter ID was. Just because the Tory vote plummeted doesn’t mean they didn’t succeed in suppressing some opposition votes. I suspect the policy was probably quite successful, but disguised by the wider shellacking.
Early, but I am answering a question posed by Gardenwalker a day or so ago: Yes, there will be live coverage of the coronation in the US. Here on the West Coast, it will start at about 2 in the morning. (So, most likely at midnight in Hawaii and the Aleutians.) https://www.tvpassport.com/tv-listings/stations/abc-komo-seattle-wa/181
(Do I plan to watch any of it? No. But I hope those who do watch, will enjoy the ceremony, and even learn something from it.)
I am hardly a royalist, but will endeavor to go to bed early and get up even earlier to watch this coronation.
In part because my own sainted mother, an was an avid Royal watcher. Saw young Chuck get infested (sp?) as Prince of Wales on TV in her company, so think it's least I can do is see him make it into the Big Chair, complete with Crown, Orb, Sceptre & Robe.
PLUS a slathering of high-class sun-screen.
I can remember watching the investiture at what was not then called Castell Caernarfon (unless one was a local), on black and white TV.
A basket of stocks selected by ChatGPT, a chatbot powered by artificial intelligence (AI), has far outperformed some of the most popular investment funds in the United Kingdom.
Between March 6 and April 28, a dummy portfolio of 38 stocks gained 4.9% while 10 leading investment funds clocked an average loss of 0.8%, according to an experiment conducted by financial comparison site finder.com.
But they could have had lots of "dummy portfolios" (they don't cost anything) and just picked the best one to publish.
Quite. Never trust such things unless they publish, or deposit, their strategy in advance. Like multifactorial clinical trials in medicine. You're not allowed to pick out retrospectively the bits that worked.
Comments
Labour won 22% of the seats in 2007, and 20% in 2009, although Labour in government seems to do worse in local elections than the Conservatives do.
2010 or the Tories were in 1997 (if fractionally less). Changing the leader and PM AGAIN will make sod all difference, indeed if anything Rishi polls slightly better than his party.
Better to just face the music and then rebuild under a new leader in Opposition
This is a massive wake-up call (as if we didn't already know there was a big challenge anyway, and members had been working hard to help) and please give us a load of extra dosh."
No contrition. No apology. No period of reflection. Just what work and money they can get off their troopers, who they expect to drone for them regardless and be damned grateful for it.
Fuck off Greg.
"Dear Party Member,
I'm afraid there is no money.
Kind regards- and good luck!"
It's the only note he's been sending to anyone.
In fact, he's something of a one note campaigner.
What I didn't know is that JL Partners are employed by the Tory Party and James Johnson who runs it was previously Theresa May's personal pollster.
I've just seen him on Ch4 News explaining how Labour's lead of 7% was a poor result. 'No better than Ed Milliband's in 2012'. It's quite reasonable to have guests speaking for whichever party they work for but surely not posing as 'The Pollster's JL Partners.....' without explaining that their job is not to illuminate but to spin
In any result there will be stuff that bucks the trend, so people really need to stop flagging those crumbs as being proof that the cake hasn't been eaten - it has.
What will really put the fear of God into them will be the levels of tactical voting. Labour, LibDem, Green, Independent - if it can defeat the Tory that is who gets the vote. Replicate anything like that at a GE and it isn't a -20 majority for Labour, its Thatcher 79 at least.
I don't want LAB to win and won't be voting for them but we could do worse than ending up with say 260 seats, rebuild and rediscover our focus and direction, and hopefully come back at the following GE.
Bunch of wankers.
So, expecting a result between 1992 and 1997 seems a reasonable bet
It’s just as unpleasant, but at least it’s from a distance, directed at a party/person who has better things to do than fight back on some obscure blog.
Ta.
I'm not convinced we worked out what we were really for last time, and we had 13 years of Labour to do it too.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2023/england/councils/E07000209
Forget mere voting, I’d go and campaign for that Party. As it is, I shall remain apathetic about the shades of socialist blancmange on offer to voters
My son x
I know the results are disappointing. I know people are worried about what Labour councils will mean for their local communities.
But I want to be totally honest with you, FIRSTNAME.
These local elections are a massive wake-up call. If you want to stop Keir Starmer, then we have to come together now.
We don’t have any time to waste. So I’m urgently asking you to chip in whatever you can today.
For too many people, the local election results mean they’re faced with Labour councillors who want to raise tax and cut local services.
It’s disappointing in so many ways.
But that’s exactly why I don’t want to see the same thing happen at next year’s general election.
I don’t want to see Keir Starmer reopen Brexit.
I don’t want to see Angela Rayner enthusiastically give in to every union demand.
I don’t want to see David Lammy with the power to keep foreign criminals in the country.
FIRSTNAME, I don’t want the same people who tried to make Jeremy Corbyn Prime Minister deciding what Britain’s future should look like.
If you don’t want to see that either, then I’m asking you to make an urgent donation today."
DONATE HERE button
There are still a lot of well-off people about - thus, the Conservative Party is a very long way from being a lost cause. Yes, the most likely outcome of the next election is that the Tories will end up in Opposition, but they'll be able to entertain realistic ambitions of a return to Government at the first attempt.
Labour is terrified of taxing the assets of the wealthy, and without the extra money it can't do anything useful to help the poor, and risks being written off as pointless and useless by everyone.
Cameron and Osborne were never particularly morally or ideologically attached to their economically inactive client vote, but found them electorally necessary and intellectually challenged enough to be pliable.
King Charles, please explain?!?
https://www.tvpassport.com/tv-listings/stations/abc-komo-seattle-wa/181
And, if you wish to share your opinion of your royal family, you can do so -- I think -- here: https://komonews.com/news/nation-world/king-charles-iii-coronation-schedule-ceremony-royal-family-what-to-know-watch-succession-great-britain-throne-england-queen-elizabeth-ii
(Do I plan to watch any of it? No. But I hope those who do watch, will enjoy the ceremony, and even learn something from it.)
It's more they didn't really know how to respond to the defeats of New Labour and the 1990s so decided to adopt its social policy and then small-state austerity whilst protecting pensioners. All tactical, defensive and nervous stuff - and no real bold leadership - and it was never really that popular. Other wings kept fighting their corner too, and that's all run through the mill that whole time over the last 13 years.
It's not hard: it's patriotism and economic prosperity, with a hard dose of pragmatism on top, so those core principles can adapt to changing circumstance. But, they seem to forget that and have cleaved to or stolen dogmas in precisely the wrong proportions as a substitute for hard thinking and leadership.
It's more they didn't really know how to respond to the defeats of New Labour and the 1990s so decided to adopt its social policy and then small-state austerity whilst protecting pensioners with a big state. All tactical, defensive and nervous stuff - and no real bold leadership. Other wings kept fighting their corner too, and it's run through the mill that whole time.
It's not hard: it's patriotism and economic prosperity, with a hard dose of pragmatism on top. But, they seem to forget that and have cleaved or stolen the wrong dogmas as a subs Exactly. It's infuriated just about everyone.
How up his own arsehole does Greg Hands have to be to sign-off that email?
Did he in fact even read it?
We all know it's autumn next year.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2023/may/05/local-elections-2023-results-live-council-england
But then I remember they are utterly useless and it becomes self-explanatory.
Economic liberalism is dead: the hordes of dependent elderly guarantee that. You can't have a small state when they all need looking after, you can't stop massive wealth transfers from the working to the non-working when they won't accept having their assets taxed, and you can't cut immigration when your economy invests in pensioners and property rather than productivity, and pumping it full of cheap labour is therefore your last roll of the dice at propping up GDP.
Britain is essentially being turned into a massive care home with a small, clapped out, impoverished state tacked to the side of it. That's not going to change, is it?
Good job I bothered!
It’s really shitty and I hope it backfires on every party, wherever they are - who uses it.
The once great Conservative Party has lost its moral compass.
I suppose also going all out for the Rangers fans - the Queen's XI stuff - was seen as too peripheral.
Haven't seen any references to the King's XI yet.
Paul Sidney RIVERS Liberal Democrats 1377 21.1% Elected
Stephen Edward Dalton WILLIAMS Green Party Candidate 1280 19.6% Elected
Nick PALMER Labour Party 1061 16.3% Elected
......................................................................................................................................................
Steve COSSER The Conservative Party Candidate 984 15.1% Not elected
Ed HOLLIDAY The Conservative Party Candidate 954 14.6% Not elected
Daniel Ali HUSSEINI The Conservative Party Candidate 860 13.2% Not elected
https://modgov.waverley.gov.uk/mgElectionAreaResults.aspx?XXR=0&ID=432&RPID=17859260
The downside of professional political operatives being so specialised these days. If an MP has someone to write their emails, tap up donors, write thinktank pieces... what is the politician actually for? An appealing figurehead? We have a monarchy for that.
Six - Runnymede, Spelthorne, Epsom & Ewell, Elmbridge, Waverley and Tandridge are NOC leaving Reigate & Banstead as the only council within Surrey (apart from the County Council) still under majority Conservative control.
In part because my own sainted mother, an was an avid Royal watcher. Saw young Chuck get infested (sp?) as Prince of Wales on TV in her company, so think it's least I can do is see him make it into the Big Chair, complete with Crown, Orb, Sceptre & Robe.
PLUS a slathering of high-class sun-screen.
Good betting opportunity for a Lib Dem gain at the GE if there are any odds around
Are they heading to the right or to the centre or back to Boris. Carry on as they are and defeat beckons.
What will they do?
What a tosser.
Lab: 26 (+15)
Con: 8 (-21)
Green: 5 (+3)
Lib Dem: 1 (+1)