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The Mirror now becoming the leading backer of King Charles – politicalbetting.com

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  • Cabinet secretary ‘sidelined by Rishi Sunak’ after Richard Sharp row
    Damning report on BBC chairman prompts the question: will Simon Case quit after the coronation?

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/richard-sharp-bbc-chairman-loan-boris-johnson-news-resigned-67rvh338p (£££)

    Interesting and isn't the Sue Gray report due next week

    Seems Dan Hodges is on the case ( no not Simon Case)

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1652355067834429440?t=ey89RSFJXatdzoX2SUvJ1w&s=19
    We'll have to see what is said.

    However, it's worth remembering that Dan Hodges has predicted five of the last zero things that were going to bring Starmer down.
    Including currygate.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Cabinet secretary ‘sidelined by Rishi Sunak’ after Richard Sharp row
    Damning report on BBC chairman prompts the question: will Simon Case quit after the coronation?

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/richard-sharp-bbc-chairman-loan-boris-johnson-news-resigned-67rvh338p (£££)

    Interesting and isn't the Sue Gray report due next week

    Seems Dan Hodges is on the case ( no not Simon Case)

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1652355067834429440?t=ey89RSFJXatdzoX2SUvJ1w&s=19
    We'll have to see what is said.

    However, it's worth remembering that Dan Hodges has predicted five of the last zero things that were going to bring Starmer down.
    Including currygate.
    Has he still got that pinned Tweet about it up?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,086
    Was told today by a relative that the UK needed to withdraw from Ukraine (I didnt know we were in but i guess they meant withdraw support) because Zelensky has been killing Russian speakers for years but we never hear about that.

    I may have identified the Saturday trolls.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    DougSeal said:

    stodge said:

    DougSeal said:

    Everyone stop and rejoice at Ipswich’s promotion. It is all, literally all, that matters this evening. Everything else is mere bagatelle.

    Should we be rejoicing at the return of the East Anglian Derby and the fact most other championship sides will be dreading the Tuesday evening trip to Plymouth?
    What’s not to like about the Old Farm derby? And West Devon’s lovely midweek in January! Particularly when it rains.
    In the old days, they'd put the Old Farm Derby on the big days so one match was Boxing Day and the other was Easter Monday. It was something they often did in the lower leagues - an ex-work colleague who was a big fan of Woking used to regale me with tales of the Boxing Day punch up with Farnborough followed by the return match on New Year's Day.

    I imagine the Tractor Boys have several points to prove after what happened in the championship play-off matches a few years ago.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    stodge said:

    DougSeal said:

    stodge said:

    DougSeal said:

    Everyone stop and rejoice at Ipswich’s promotion. It is all, literally all, that matters this evening. Everything else is mere bagatelle.

    Should we be rejoicing at the return of the East Anglian Derby and the fact most other championship sides will be dreading the Tuesday evening trip to Plymouth?
    What’s not to like about the Old Farm derby? And West Devon’s lovely midweek in January! Particularly when it rains.
    In the old days, they'd put the Old Farm Derby on the big days so one match was Boxing Day and the other was Easter Monday. It was something they often did in the lower leagues - an ex-work colleague who was a big fan of Woking used to regale me with tales of the Boxing Day punch up with Farnborough followed by the return match on New Year's Day.

    I imagine the Tractor Boys have several points to prove after what happened in the championship play-off matches a few years ago.
    Point to prove on general principle. We’ve been v.poor against the Budgies for far too long.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    As a betting proposition, who do YOU favor - Mickey Mouse OR Ron diRatis?

    Perhaps interesting parallel between current Governor of Florida - the Viktor Orban of Tallahassee - and the early 20th-century Governor & Senator of Louisiana, Huey Long, aka The King Fish.

    Which is this: one of Huey's key political strategies in his political rise, was his opposition to what was then the great Pelican State's leading corporation and employer = Standard Oil. Which in addition to interests in oil extraction, owned and operated what IIRC was the largest refinery in the USA at the time, in Baton Rouge (it's still there).

    This was one reason, why the professional & other middle-class voters of BR never cottoned to Huey, to put it mildly. HOWEVER, it stood him in good stead in most of the rest of Louisiana, who believed (correctly) that they were paying for the taxes that Standard Oil was avoiding due to economic-political clout.

    So there is at least a quasi-historic parallel for RdS in his battle royale with Disney.

    HOWEVER, note that when it came to doing battle with Big Oil, Huey Long knew when to hold 'em (by the short hairs) and when to cut a deal. NOT simply for personal profit and/or campaign cash (Huey's own "Win-or-Lose" oil drilling company was never know to do the latter) but also for tax revenues used to (quite literally in many cases) pull Louisianans out of the mud via investments in schools, hospitals, roads and other infrastructure.

    In case of Ron DiRatis, less evidence that he will know when and/or prove able to cut a deal with Mickey & etc., without looking like a loser.
  • Cabinet secretary ‘sidelined by Rishi Sunak’ after Richard Sharp row
    Damning report on BBC chairman prompts the question: will Simon Case quit after the coronation?

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/richard-sharp-bbc-chairman-loan-boris-johnson-news-resigned-67rvh338p (£££)

    Interesting and isn't the Sue Gray report due next week

    Seems Dan Hodges is on the case ( no not Simon Case)

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1652355067834429440?t=ey89RSFJXatdzoX2SUvJ1w&s=19
    We'll have to see what is said.

    However, it's worth remembering that Dan Hodges has predicted five of the last zero things that were going to bring Starmer down.
    Indeed but I have read similar reports from different sources but you are right to wait the report publication

    If it is accurate, then Starmer's problem is his stance on integraty and honesty will be in focus of the media

    I would just say you can cause your own problems if you do not allow for human frailty, and portray oneself as above reproach
  • DougSeal said:

    Everyone stop and rejoice at Ipswich’s promotion. It is all, literally all, that matters this evening. Everything else is mere bagatelle.

    Rejoicing indeed, Doug.

    It's been a good season for PB football fans - Ipswich up and Orient winning league two.

    That Tottenham meanwhile appear to be going down the tubes only adds to the jollity.
    And of course Wrexham spectacular season
    Vintage season indeed, Big G. :smile:
  • DougSeal said:

    Cabinet secretary ‘sidelined by Rishi Sunak’ after Richard Sharp row
    Damning report on BBC chairman prompts the question: will Simon Case quit after the coronation?

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/richard-sharp-bbc-chairman-loan-boris-johnson-news-resigned-67rvh338p (£££)

    Interesting and isn't the Sue Gray report due next week

    Seems Dan Hodges is on the case ( no not Simon Case)

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1652355067834429440?t=ey89RSFJXatdzoX2SUvJ1w&s=19
    We'll have to see what is said.

    However, it's worth remembering that Dan Hodges has predicted five of the last zero things that were going to bring Starmer down.
    Including currygate.
    Has he still got that pinned Tweet about it up?
    Yup.


  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Cabinet secretary ‘sidelined by Rishi Sunak’ after Richard Sharp row
    Damning report on BBC chairman prompts the question: will Simon Case quit after the coronation?

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/richard-sharp-bbc-chairman-loan-boris-johnson-news-resigned-67rvh338p (£££)

    Interesting and isn't the Sue Gray report due next week

    Seems Dan Hodges is on the case ( no not Simon Case)

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1652355067834429440?t=ey89RSFJXatdzoX2SUvJ1w&s=19
    We'll have to see what is said.

    However, it's worth remembering that Dan Hodges has predicted five of the last zero things that were going to bring Starmer down.
    I'm struggling to see how Gray taking on the Labour chief of staff gig seriously damages Starmer. At worst Gray didn't follow procedure, so the appointment gets blocked for a while.

    I suspect Gray's real crime is the unspoken assumption she's preparing the next prime minister for office.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    edited April 2023

    I'm preparing with the prequel.


    Just got back from a meeting of the shadowy Committee for the Restoration of the Republic of 1649 (CRR'49).

    (just kiddin')
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    HYUFD said:

    When did absolutely everybody first start disliking Jews and giving them such a bad press? Does it start with the Jews having Jesus killed?

    Careful, that is another antisemitic trope. Two of them in fact. That Jews killed Jesus and more fundamentally that Jews did anything to deserve universal antisemitism.
    Yes. We have to be careful. But Jews were slaves of the Arabs, and everyone likes an under dog, as Moses leads them to freedom, with Gods help. so something changed at some point for anti semitism to begin. because they don’t deserve anti semitism so why does it exist? What its starting point?

    I have looked through the PDF and that “the Jews killed Jesus” is supposed to be a trope, and we are not allowed to mention it? However there is a lot of historical truth to it. I don’t think it’s an excuse for anti semitism, but looking at how Christians were in history, their bad treatment of Jews is on a par with their brutality towards those following Pagan religions, is that where it comes from? Anti semitism comes firstly from Christianity?

    Jesus was a Jew, and majority of the Jewish council didn’t like the trouble he was making, I think partly in fear of Romans using it as excuse for a clamp down, maybe also it wasn’t orthodox enough for Pharisee as he was mingling Greek philosophy particularly from Plato, the attack on money exchanges in the temple was a tipping point, so yes, it was other Jews who had Jesus crucified. Why can’t we mention that bit of history without being called anti Semitic?

    I do have a strong feeling anti-semitism is strong in Christemdom because of that. And the start of treating Jews as harshly as those following other pagan religion. unfairly bigging that fact up as Jews being anti christian.

    Christianity created and spread anti semitism through Europe and the world.

    Am I wrong?
    It is not clear that blaming Christianity is especially useful, or any other large group.
    You are not in the mood to be helpful or even honest here are you? You know I’m a staunch Christian. But I fairly acknowledge history of Christian countries is horrible treatment of Jews. England probably being one of the worst in history, probably more so than the Germanic countries. Though having said that, the biggest anti Semite of all time being Martin Luther.
    I don't remember England ever killing millions of Jews in a Holocaust? Indeed after Israel and the USA the UK has one of the highest percentages of Jews in its population in the world
    Today yes. But worth remembering that thousands of Jews were massacred in England during the Middle Ages and all Jews were expelled from England in 1290 under an act that wasn't overturned until 1656
    Under the Commonwealth, no less.

    Napoleon was also lenient towards the Jews of Europe.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Actually, I think the apology is a lie

    I simply do not believe this bit

    “Finally, fatally, many people assumed the yellow polyps on the squid were gold coins and the truncated Goldman Sachs logo simply read “Gold Sacs”.”

    Really? Whether it was understood as a truncation or not, the logo says “Gold Sacs”. And that is deliberate by Rowson

    How did he expect people to read “Gold Sacs”?

    As Goldman Sachs, which is where Sharp was Rishi's boss. Everyone knows that. Ironically for your case, it would probably be less antisemitic if it were read as Gold Sacs and not the bank, because the trope is of a cabal of Jewish bankers running the world.
    So why truncate Goldman Sachs to “Gold Sacs” unless he wanted to play upon the anti-Semitic trope of Jewish bankers escaping with sacks of public gold?

    I’m sorry, his apology is articulate and effective, but I think it’s shite. And he knows Sharp is Jewish?

    I suspect he wittingly or unwittingly drew an explicitly anti-Semitic cartoon, and he has simply been forced to backtrack and grovel, due to the social media critique
    The idea that prejudice is dead is a myth, particularly amongst those who call themselves "progressive".

    It's absolutely fine to be violently prejudiced about Jews and Gammons, whilst turning a blind-eye to Chinese genocide of the Uighars, as long as you make an anti-imperialist argument to cover it to boot.
    Maybe some types of prejudice are ok, others not so?
    @Casino_Royale is deeply prejudiced against small 'r' republicans, vegetarians and lefty lawyers :)
    Don't mind vegetarians actually. It's vegans who trigger.

    But, I don't claim to be perfect.
    I stand to be corrected :)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Actually, I think the apology is a lie

    I simply do not believe this bit

    “Finally, fatally, many people assumed the yellow polyps on the squid were gold coins and the truncated Goldman Sachs logo simply read “Gold Sacs”.”

    Really? Whether it was understood as a truncation or not, the logo says “Gold Sacs”. And that is deliberate by Rowson

    How did he expect people to read “Gold Sacs”?

    As Goldman Sachs, which is where Sharp was Rishi's boss. Everyone knows that. Ironically for your case, it would probably be less antisemitic if it were read as Gold Sacs and not the bank, because the trope is of a cabal of Jewish bankers running the world.
    So why truncate Goldman Sachs to “Gold Sacs” unless he wanted to play upon the anti-Semitic trope of Jewish bankers escaping with sacks of public gold?

    I’m sorry, his apology is articulate and effective, but I think it’s shite. And he knows Sharp is Jewish?

    I suspect he wittingly or unwittingly drew an explicitly anti-Semitic cartoon, and he has simply been forced to backtrack and grovel, due to the social media critique
    The idea that prejudice is dead is a myth, particularly amongst those who call themselves "progressive".

    It's absolutely fine to be violently prejudiced about Jews and Gammons, whilst turning a blind-eye to Chinese genocide of the Uighars, as long as you make an anti-imperialist argument to cover it to boot.
    Maybe some types of prejudice are ok, others not so?
    @Casino_Royale is deeply prejudiced against small 'r' republicans, vegetarians and lefty lawyers :)
    Don't mind vegetarians actually. It's vegans who trigger.

    But, I don't claim to be perfect.
    I upset a vegan the other day, told them meat eaten as a comfort food is still classed an emotional support animal.
    But they have a bigger steak in the process.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,439

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Actually, I think the apology is a lie

    I simply do not believe this bit

    “Finally, fatally, many people assumed the yellow polyps on the squid were gold coins and the truncated Goldman Sachs logo simply read “Gold Sacs”.”

    Really? Whether it was understood as a truncation or not, the logo says “Gold Sacs”. And that is deliberate by Rowson

    How did he expect people to read “Gold Sacs”?

    As Goldman Sachs, which is where Sharp was Rishi's boss. Everyone knows that. Ironically for your case, it would probably be less antisemitic if it were read as Gold Sacs and not the bank, because the trope is of a cabal of Jewish bankers running the world.
    So why truncate Goldman Sachs to “Gold Sacs” unless he wanted to play upon the anti-Semitic trope of Jewish bankers escaping with sacks of public gold?

    I’m sorry, his apology is articulate and effective, but I think it’s shite. And he knows Sharp is Jewish?

    I suspect he wittingly or unwittingly drew an explicitly anti-Semitic cartoon, and he has simply been forced to backtrack and grovel, due to the social media critique
    The idea that prejudice is dead is a myth, particularly amongst those who call themselves "progressive".

    It's absolutely fine to be violently prejudiced about Jews and Gammons, whilst turning a blind-eye to Chinese genocide of the Uighars, as long as you make an anti-imperialist argument to cover it to boot.
    Maybe some types of prejudice are ok, others not so?
    @Casino_Royale is deeply prejudiced against small 'r' republicans, vegetarians and lefty lawyers :)
    Don't mind vegetarians actually. It's vegans who trigger.

    But, I don't claim to be perfect.
    I stand to be corrected :)
    I went to the Spring Steam Gala today.

    I'd say I saw at each 200 Sunil's over the course of the day.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    Theweb said:

    stjohn said:

    A big thanks from me and a shout out to @dixiedean.

    Over two weeks ago he suggested that the Chinese players competing in this year's Snooker World Championship were probably very underrated and therefore value bets. I had £10 on three of those he named, including the amazing Si Jiahui at 443/1. Thankfully I cashed in my position this afternoon, before Si lost out in a gripping, magnificent semifinal.

    Top tipping!

    Felt so sorry for that chinese guy.
    Yes. He was amazing.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Actually, I think the apology is a lie

    I simply do not believe this bit

    “Finally, fatally, many people assumed the yellow polyps on the squid were gold coins and the truncated Goldman Sachs logo simply read “Gold Sacs”.”

    Really? Whether it was understood as a truncation or not, the logo says “Gold Sacs”. And that is deliberate by Rowson

    How did he expect people to read “Gold Sacs”?

    As Goldman Sachs, which is where Sharp was Rishi's boss. Everyone knows that. Ironically for your case, it would probably be less antisemitic if it were read as Gold Sacs and not the bank, because the trope is of a cabal of Jewish bankers running the world.
    So why truncate Goldman Sachs to “Gold Sacs” unless he wanted to play upon the anti-Semitic trope of Jewish bankers escaping with sacks of public gold?

    I’m sorry, his apology is articulate and effective, but I think it’s shite. And he knows Sharp is Jewish?

    I suspect he wittingly or unwittingly drew an explicitly anti-Semitic cartoon, and he has simply been forced to backtrack and grovel, due to the social media critique
    The idea that prejudice is dead is a myth, particularly amongst those who call themselves "progressive".

    It's absolutely fine to be violently prejudiced about Jews and Gammons, whilst turning a blind-eye to Chinese genocide of the Uighars, as long as you make an anti-imperialist argument to cover it to boot.
    Maybe some types of prejudice are ok, others not so?
    @Casino_Royale is deeply prejudiced against small 'r' republicans, vegetarians and lefty lawyers :)
    Don't mind vegetarians actually. It's vegans who trigger.

    But, I don't claim to be perfect.
    I stand to be corrected :)
    I went to the Spring Steam Gala today.

    I'd say I saw at each 200 Sunil's over the course of the day.
    Steam Gala where exactly?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    This snooker match is not out of the blocks yet. Both players still appear to be on their Marks.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,219
    Stuff that, Rishi Sunak fans please explain.
  • FF43 said:

    Cabinet secretary ‘sidelined by Rishi Sunak’ after Richard Sharp row
    Damning report on BBC chairman prompts the question: will Simon Case quit after the coronation?

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/richard-sharp-bbc-chairman-loan-boris-johnson-news-resigned-67rvh338p (£££)

    Interesting and isn't the Sue Gray report due next week

    Seems Dan Hodges is on the case ( no not Simon Case)

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1652355067834429440?t=ey89RSFJXatdzoX2SUvJ1w&s=19
    We'll have to see what is said.

    However, it's worth remembering that Dan Hodges has predicted five of the last zero things that were going to bring Starmer down.
    I'm struggling to see how Gray taking on the Labour chief of staff gig seriously damages Starmer. At worst Gray didn't follow procedure, so the appointment gets blocked for a while.

    I suspect Gray's real crime is the unspoken assumption she's preparing the next prime minister for office.
    It excites the same people who thought Currygate would bring down Starmer, ie a niche group of incel virgins.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Theweb said:

    Not a great forecast for the kings coronation showery and 16c.

    It's still too far away to forecast with any confidence.
  • I cannot be arsed to rewrite my morning thread which has been slightly contradicted by this Opinium finding.

    The latest poll also shows a slump in Sunak’s personal approval ratings, with 26% approving of the job he is doing and 44% disapproving. It puts him on a net approval of -18. Starmer is on -3 due to rounding – with 31% approving and 33% disapproving of his performance.

    Starmer also narrowly leads on who voters see as the best prime minister, by 28% to 26%. The pollsters said this continued a pattern which effectively sees the two leaders tied on this question.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,662

    Stuff that, Rishi Sunak fans please explain.
    Another twist in the narrative. A collapse in Sunak’s popularity.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Actually, I think the apology is a lie

    I simply do not believe this bit

    “Finally, fatally, many people assumed the yellow polyps on the squid were gold coins and the truncated Goldman Sachs logo simply read “Gold Sacs”.”

    Really? Whether it was understood as a truncation or not, the logo says “Gold Sacs”. And that is deliberate by Rowson

    How did he expect people to read “Gold Sacs”?

    As Goldman Sachs, which is where Sharp was Rishi's boss. Everyone knows that. Ironically for your case, it would probably be less antisemitic if it were read as Gold Sacs and not the bank, because the trope is of a cabal of Jewish bankers running the world.
    So why truncate Goldman Sachs to “Gold Sacs” unless he wanted to play upon the anti-Semitic trope of Jewish bankers escaping with sacks of public gold?

    I’m sorry, his apology is articulate and effective, but I think it’s shite. And he knows Sharp is Jewish?

    I suspect he wittingly or unwittingly drew an explicitly anti-Semitic cartoon, and he has simply been forced to backtrack and grovel, due to the social media critique
    The idea that prejudice is dead is a myth, particularly amongst those who call themselves "progressive".

    It's absolutely fine to be violently prejudiced about Jews and Gammons, whilst turning a blind-eye to Chinese genocide of the Uighars, as long as you make an anti-imperialist argument to cover it to boot.
    Maybe some types of prejudice are ok, others not so?
    @Casino_Royale is deeply prejudiced against small 'r' republicans, vegetarians and lefty lawyers :)
    Don't mind vegetarians actually. It's vegans who trigger.

    But, I don't claim to be perfect.
    I stand to be corrected :)
    You have been!
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,219

    I cannot be arsed to rewrite my morning thread which has been slightly contradicted by this Opinium finding.

    The latest poll also shows a slump in Sunak’s personal approval ratings, with 26% approving of the job he is doing and 44% disapproving. It puts him on a net approval of -18. Starmer is on -3 due to rounding – with 31% approving and 33% disapproving of his performance.

    Starmer also narrowly leads on who voters see as the best prime minister, by 28% to 26%. The pollsters said this continued a pattern which effectively sees the two leaders tied on this question.

    Bit early to.buff my halo, but I did speculate that the Sunak Surge would sag once energy support stopped and people ended their annual Council Tax holiday.

    Too much month at the end of the money.
  • I cannot be arsed to rewrite my morning thread which has been slightly contradicted by this Opinium finding.

    The latest poll also shows a slump in Sunak’s personal approval ratings, with 26% approving of the job he is doing and 44% disapproving. It puts him on a net approval of -18. Starmer is on -3 due to rounding – with 31% approving and 33% disapproving of his performance.

    Starmer also narrowly leads on who voters see as the best prime minister, by 28% to 26%. The pollsters said this continued a pattern which effectively sees the two leaders tied on this question.

    Bit early to.buff my halo, but I did speculate that the Sunak Surge would sag once energy support stopped and people ended their annual Council Tax holiday.

    Too much month at the end of the money.
    Aye, it's the economy, stupid.
  • NEW THREAD

  • OldBasingOldBasing Posts: 173

    I cannot be arsed to rewrite my morning thread which has been slightly contradicted by this Opinium finding.

    The latest poll also shows a slump in Sunak’s personal approval ratings, with 26% approving of the job he is doing and 44% disapproving. It puts him on a net approval of -18. Starmer is on -3 due to rounding – with 31% approving and 33% disapproving of his performance.

    Starmer also narrowly leads on who voters see as the best prime minister, by 28% to 26%. The pollsters said this continued a pattern which effectively sees the two leaders tied on this question.

    Bit early to.buff my halo, but I did speculate that the Sunak Surge would sag once energy support stopped and people ended their annual Council Tax holiday.

    Too much month at the end of the money.
    Yep, the higher bills are really landing now.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,219
    Talking of which,

    This thread has run out of money before the end of the month, thanks to increased utility bills

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    HYUFD said:

    When did absolutely everybody first start disliking Jews and giving them such a bad press? Does it start with the Jews having Jesus killed?

    Careful, that is another antisemitic trope. Two of them in fact. That Jews killed Jesus and more fundamentally that Jews did anything to deserve universal antisemitism.
    Yes. We have to be careful. But Jews were slaves of the Arabs, and everyone likes an under dog, as Moses leads them to freedom, with Gods help. so something changed at some point for anti semitism to begin. because they don’t deserve anti semitism so why does it exist? What its starting point?

    I have looked through the PDF and that “the Jews killed Jesus” is supposed to be a trope, and we are not allowed to mention it? However there is a lot of historical truth to it. I don’t think it’s an excuse for anti semitism, but looking at how Christians were in history, their bad treatment of Jews is on a par with their brutality towards those following Pagan religions, is that where it comes from? Anti semitism comes firstly from Christianity?

    Jesus was a Jew, and majority of the Jewish council didn’t like the trouble he was making, I think partly in fear of Romans using it as excuse for a clamp down, maybe also it wasn’t orthodox enough for Pharisee as he was mingling Greek philosophy particularly from Plato, the attack on money exchanges in the temple was a tipping point, so yes, it was other Jews who had Jesus crucified. Why can’t we mention that bit of history without being called anti Semitic?

    I do have a strong feeling anti-semitism is strong in Christemdom because of that. And the start of treating Jews as harshly as those following other pagan religion. unfairly bigging that fact up as Jews being anti christian.

    Christianity created and spread anti semitism through Europe and the world.

    Am I wrong?
    It is not clear that blaming Christianity is especially useful, or any other large group.
    You are not in the mood to be helpful or even honest here are you? You know I’m a staunch Christian. But I fairly acknowledge history of Christian countries is horrible treatment of Jews. England probably being one of the worst in history, probably more so than the Germanic countries. Though having said that, the biggest anti Semite of all time being Martin Luther.
    I don't remember England ever killing millions of Jews in a Holocaust? Indeed after Israel and the USA the UK has one of the highest percentages of Jews in its population in the world
    Today yes. But worth remembering that thousands of Jews were massacred in England during the Middle Ages and all Jews were expelled from England in 1290 under an act that wasn't overturned until 1656
    Under the Commonwealth, no less.

    Napoleon was also lenient towards the Jews of Europe.
    Oliver Cromwell being early example & exponent of Anglo(-American) evangelical philo-semetism.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    One poll does not a trend make. We all know this. We*1 all do it anyway. Poll comes out "Sunak doomed!". Another poll comes out "Sunak saved!". PB is not a good processor of information.

    *1 You. :smiley:
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    FF43 said:

    Cabinet secretary ‘sidelined by Rishi Sunak’ after Richard Sharp row
    Damning report on BBC chairman prompts the question: will Simon Case quit after the coronation?

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/richard-sharp-bbc-chairman-loan-boris-johnson-news-resigned-67rvh338p (£££)

    Interesting and isn't the Sue Gray report due next week

    Seems Dan Hodges is on the case ( no not Simon Case)

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1652355067834429440?t=ey89RSFJXatdzoX2SUvJ1w&s=19
    We'll have to see what is said.

    However, it's worth remembering that Dan Hodges has predicted five of the last zero things that were going to bring Starmer down.
    I'm struggling to see how Gray taking on the Labour chief of staff gig seriously damages Starmer. At worst Gray didn't follow procedure, so the appointment gets blocked for a while.

    I suspect Gray's real crime is the unspoken assumption she's preparing the next prime minister for office.
    It excites the same people who thought Currygate would bring down Starmer, ie a niche group of incel virgins.
    Sad person that I am, I checked the employment restriction rules for civil servants and I don't think Sue Gray is in scope because (a) she wasn't permanent secretary level and (b) the rules assume conflicts of interests are commercial. Possibly they will be rewritten in light of this episode but by then the horse has bolted

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/business-appointment-rules-for-crown-servants/business-appointment-rules-for-crown-servants
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,439

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Actually, I think the apology is a lie

    I simply do not believe this bit

    “Finally, fatally, many people assumed the yellow polyps on the squid were gold coins and the truncated Goldman Sachs logo simply read “Gold Sacs”.”

    Really? Whether it was understood as a truncation or not, the logo says “Gold Sacs”. And that is deliberate by Rowson

    How did he expect people to read “Gold Sacs”?

    As Goldman Sachs, which is where Sharp was Rishi's boss. Everyone knows that. Ironically for your case, it would probably be less antisemitic if it were read as Gold Sacs and not the bank, because the trope is of a cabal of Jewish bankers running the world.
    So why truncate Goldman Sachs to “Gold Sacs” unless he wanted to play upon the anti-Semitic trope of Jewish bankers escaping with sacks of public gold?

    I’m sorry, his apology is articulate and effective, but I think it’s shite. And he knows Sharp is Jewish?

    I suspect he wittingly or unwittingly drew an explicitly anti-Semitic cartoon, and he has simply been forced to backtrack and grovel, due to the social media critique
    The idea that prejudice is dead is a myth, particularly amongst those who call themselves "progressive".

    It's absolutely fine to be violently prejudiced about Jews and Gammons, whilst turning a blind-eye to Chinese genocide of the Uighars, as long as you make an anti-imperialist argument to cover it to boot.
    Maybe some types of prejudice are ok, others not so?
    @Casino_Royale is deeply prejudiced against small 'r' republicans, vegetarians and lefty lawyers :)
    Don't mind vegetarians actually. It's vegans who trigger.

    But, I don't claim to be perfect.
    I stand to be corrected :)
    I went to the Spring Steam Gala today.

    I'd say I saw at each 200 Sunil's over the course of the day.
    Steam Gala where exactly?
    Mid Hants Railway.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,258
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    There are clearly elements of the Left and even the centre Left which have now crossed into blatant anti semitism, and aren’t even embarrassed about it

    And the right with even MPs banging on about Cultural Marxists and North London Intellectuals.
    The trouble is that both of those are blatantly true. It's unfortunate that cultural marxism is associated with antisemitism but what are you supposed to call social and cultural theorists heavily influenced by Marx. North London intellectuals is one I hadn't considered before. Again though, there are a lot of political and intellectual types in Islington.
    It’s very simple.

    Palestine is one of the big causes of the hard left.

    A lot of countries in the area preach (literally) antisemitism as part of the blame-the-Jews-for-everything-not-the-wankers-running-the-country thing.

    So quite a few people from the region are steeped in anti-semitism.

    A tenant of modern progressivism is that non-white people can’t be racist. This means that white, middle class progressives feel they can’t push back against minorities expressing antisemitism.

    So the antisemitism is allowed. And so people are listening to it, seeing the cartoons etc on a regular basis. And it rubs off on them….
    It’s a debate I avoid generally as there are always accusations of bigotry made, on both sides of the debate, and partly due to suppress criticism.

    Even criticism of the Israeli govt it ‘anti semitic’ to some. But then there’s a nasty streak of islamophobia in this debate as well as anti semitism.
    When The Protocols of The Elders Of Zion are selling well, there you will find anti-semites.0

    Funny, that.

    Denying that countries in the region have used anti-semitism to prop up their rancid revenues is equally stupid.

    The stuff they put in the official media isn’t subtle. Some of the cartoons are literally taken from Der Sturmer.

    The whining when some people translated some of the grosser stuff into English was entertaining.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,258
    Theweb said:

    When did absolutely everybody first start disliking Jews and giving them such a bad press? Does it start with the Jews having Jesus killed?

    Careful, that is another antisemitic trope. Two of them in fact. That Jews killed Jesus and more fundamentally that Jews did anything to deserve universal antisemitism.
    Yes. We have to be careful. But Jews were slaves of the Arabs, and everyone likes an under dog, as Moses leads them to freedom, with Gods help. so something changed at some point for anti semitism to begin. because they don’t deserve anti semitism so why does it exist? What its starting point?

    I have looked through the PDF and that “the Jews killed Jesus” is supposed to be a trope, and we are not allowed to mention it? However there is a lot of historical truth to it. I don’t think it’s an excuse for anti semitism, but looking at how Christians were in history, their bad treatment of Jews is on a par with their brutality towards those following Pagan religions, is that where it comes from? Anti semitism comes firstly from Christianity?

    Jesus was a Jew, and majority of the Jewish council didn’t like the trouble he was making, I think partly in fear of Romans using it as excuse for a clamp down, maybe also it wasn’t orthodox enough for Pharisee as he was mingling Greek philosophy particularly from Plato, the attack on money exchanges in the temple was a tipping point, so yes, it was other Jews who had Jesus crucified. Why can’t we mention that bit of history without being called anti Semitic?

    I do have a strong feeling anti-semitism is strong in Christemdom because of that. And the start of treating Jews as harshly as those following other pagan religion. unfairly bigging that fact up as Jews being anti christian.

    Christianity created and spread anti semitism through Europe and the world.

    Am I wrong?
    I think the roots of antisemitism go back to jews historic role as money lenders.
    Apart from the fact that money lending was one of the few trades the Jews were *allowed* to practise. They were explicitly barred from the Guilds, the Universities and from owning more than small pieces of land, in a number of countries.

    Antisemitism was around before all that happened….
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320

    Leon said:

    Quite a thread on the renaming of the Brecon Beacons


    Who’s *really* behind the hugely contentious decision to rename the Brecon Beacons national park? Let’s take a look… 🧵

    https://twitter.com/guyadams/status/1652217217428213763?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

    Yep, I pointed this out on here at the time and was lampooned by the usual Herd.
    The remaining national park in Wales, Pembrokeshire Coast, said it wanted to "reflect all the communities of Pembrokeshire".

    It added: "In view of the bilingual nature of these communities... we will continue to use both the official Welsh (Arfordir Penfro) and English versions of the national park's name."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-65274952

    Meanwhile, the Scottish government is plastering places in signs with Gaelic in areas it was never spoken.
    petty sour grapes there
This discussion has been closed.